FOMO, Meme Stocks and Robinhood Chain | Andy8052 & Eric Conner

Meme coins are back, but this time the more interesting story may be what they're building around them. David sits down with Eric and Andy to unpack the latest meme-coin cycle, the rise of stock-paired memes on Robinhood Chain, and the strange possibility that speculative trading could actually bootstrap liquidity for tokenized equities. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔓NEAR | TRADE CONFIDENTIALLY, GET 20% BACK https://bankless.cc/near2026 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless 👑BANKLESS CONTENT MCP https://www.bankless.com/premium --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Meme Coins Are Back 5:47 Can Meme Markets Mature? 7:48 AI as a Safety Layer 13:10 Stock-Paired Meme Coins 17:01 Building Stronger Schelling Points 21:00 Will Public Companies Care? 28:56 The Community Takeover Scenario 32:18 Meme Coins as a Liquidity Engine 36:16 How Andy and Eric Use FOMO 42:39 What Signals Actually Matter 47:54 When Do You Sell a Loser? 52:26 FOMO Rewards and Public Trading Data 55:36 The $20K ETH Jinx --- RESOURCES Andy 8052 https://x.com/andy8052 Eric Conner https://x.com/econoar --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00David Hoffman?

  Hey, Bankless Nation. Today on the show, I talk to Eric Conner and Andy 8052 about all the activity happening in and around meme coins and crypto. There's the paired tokenized stock meme coin activity happening on Robinhood chain. There's conversations around FOMO and what their FOMO strategies are, and also just their do's and don'ts around meme coin trading. So this is a meme coin episode, and it's not for everyone. I don't recommend meme coins, but nonetheless, I do partake in them, and I remain kind of curious about what the future might hold. Meme coins are a sector of crypto, and that sector progresses and innovates like all the others. And I want to make sure that I stay on top of that weird corner of the internet. So that's your disclaimer. If meme coins aren't for you, feel free to skip this episode.

• 0:44David Hoffman?

  But if you want to stay up to speed about what's happening, or if you're just curious about what's going on in the trenches, feel free to tune in. So let's get into my conversation with Andy and Eric.

• 0:55David Hoffman?

  Eric, Andy, welcome back.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Hey, David. Good to be back.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 0:58David Hoffman?

  Seems like another cycle is upon us. Andy, Eric, we all became friends during DeFi summer, and that was a while ago. I want to get you guys on the show just because I want to get grounded a little bit as we enter what seems to be like a little bit of froth in the market now. And if, you know, the cycle plays out as they normally do, it will only get frothier. And so now I think is some of the time to get our bearings about what this all kind of looks like. A lot of this trading behavior, the FOMO meme coin behavior, has been around for a while, but it's definitely picking up steam. So maybe I can kind of like start the conversation with this, kind of just zooming out.

• 1:39David Hoffman?

  Meme coins have been both incredibly durable and are individually incredibly not durable. Like, they, most of them go to zero, but as a meta, we are still doing meme coins over and over and over again. Like, we had the first meme coin bull market of 2024, and as an industry, that kind of did zero for adoption. And I would say like, the industry took an L, thanks to meme coins, as like a brand identity for the industry. And then here we are again in the latter half of 2026, going on 2027, and FOMO and meme coins are kind of like, once again, the meta.

• 2:23David Hoffman?

  And I bring up the fact that we all kind of started in DeFi summer, and then after that was NFT mania. Previous cycles have all kind of looked different to each other, and now we're entering another cycle, and it's kind of the same meta of meme coins again. Are we, the question I want to ask you guys is like, are we as an industry kind of just stuck in this meme coin meta? And that's kind of the way it is? Eric, you're the biggest veteran out of all of us. Maybe I'll throw that one to you.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think so. It's ironic, of course, right? Robinhood finally starts tokenizing things like stocks, and the first thing people do with it is create meme stocks, right? It's just, it's just where I think finance in general is slowly going, and we're just on the frontier here. Yeah, I mean, I think it'll always be the meta. I think one thing we've seen in the past, the problem, like you brought up NFTs, DeFi summer. What happens is someone creates a cool concept. Like, I remember the first time I farmed during DeFi summer was on Compound, right? It was just kind of a new concept, and then everyone takes that, and there's like this Cambrian explosion of either farming or NFTs or memes, and the capital just starts to get spread thinner and thinner, right?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  So there, there are like core winners that come out of these cycles, like, for example, Crypto Plunks, you know, and the NFT craze. There's obviously core DeFi protocols still around doing very well. Oh, they need to swap in others. You know, there's been big meme coin winners that have gone to billions of dollars and more. But I think this always is good to meta, but I think it's getting a little bit more refined. I think with apps like FOMO, for example, there's finally some like social accountability. There's tabs, like the most held, I think we're seeing consolidation into. I think, yeah, there are like a lot of coins that you buy into a small cap, and they just go straight to zero. But a lot of like the most held coins over the last few months have actually done pretty well, like AI, for example, just keeps cranking away every day. I think it's up to like a $350 million market cap.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  But I think like we're getting better, better social structure around this and just better apps for this to happen. I'm hoping like not everything just goes to zero, and I do think there's some interesting things happening around like meme stocks and things like that. So I think every cycle we go through, things get a little bit more refined, a little bit more mature, and I think we are seeing that with memes as well.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  I would argue that every cycle memes have been like at least a bit of an undertone of what happens. Like, I don't think that 2024 was the first time that meme coins were really, like Dogecoin was, you know, one of the larger onboarding things to crypto in general, like Shiba coin in 2021 went to like $40 billion.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  And so like, I think it's one of the few things that crypto is actually really good at. And I was actually, I was at the FOMO happy hour last night, talking to someone about this. I think like crypto has proven, it's very good at speculation on both the like sophisticated end with leverage and these different things, and the degenerate end with memes. And I think to a certain extent, those are kind of just like two different sectors that are just never going to go away because crypto is like by far the best way to do it. And we just finally, like memes have caught up to like leverage trading as far as like the level of sophistication and support

• 5:38Speaker 02

  to where they've like, it feels like they're really coming on, and it's this really big thing, but it's been happening for forever. It just like took a while to kind of formalize.

• 5:47David Hoffman?

  I guess the question that I would like to have answered is like, does the meme coin sector of the internet like grow up, get refined, get a little bit more polished? It's never going to enter suit territory. That would be just a complete oxymoron. But does it become more accessible in a, in a, in a positive sum way? Because like meme coins have like a very negative sum brand. It's like you would never, ever advise your non-crypto sibling, parent, uncle to get into meme coins. No one should ever do that. But does it, does there a way, is there a way for like meme coins? Are we going in a direction that just makes it a little bit more structurally sustainable, structurally sound,

• 6:32David Hoffman?

  rather than some of the PvP extraction that we've seen in cycles past?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think so. I think we're seeing maturity on the financial side. I mean, Andy hinted at it a little bit, but I mean, for example, you can go trade perps on AI. Like, these meme coins are getting listed quickly on perp exchanges, and that creates a more mature market. All of a sudden, people can short it if they want, they can use leverage. It just takes away some volatility and kind of evens the playing field. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do think there's a lot around social accountability. I know I brought that up earlier, but like, one of the reasons I didn't really get into memes too much, I mean, recovering ETH maxi, that's one reason. But the other is, like, you just, there's cabals behind the scenes. You just know they're there, right? And like, if you buy a little late, you're probably going to get dumped on.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And like, sure, I'm not naive. Like, I know that's still happening, even with apps like FOMO, people can have sidewalks and things. But I do think it's adding a bit of social like accountability to the meme layer, and that is important. Like, you know, if you go in there and you see some of the top holders average hold like a long time, and they aren't just pump and dumpers, like you feel a little bit more comfortable. And before these apps existed, you just didn't know that. Like, you could kind of go look at Wallace on chain, but like normies aren't doing that. So I do think that'll help a lot with that.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always joke with meme coins that like, if you don't have the insider information, someone else does. And you are like, you are very actively in like an information asymmetry trade, kind of all of the time with meme coins. I also think sort of an underrated aspect that hasn't really, hasn't really publicly become a thing yet. But I do think that AI actually can meaningfully help here as well. As far as just like getting, you know, there's really good meme coin traders who I'm friends with, who already have their own tooling built themselves. But for analyzing like how many people who are all probably the same person own this token? What's the, how much is bundled? How much is owned by some small group of people?

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Are those people selling whenever there's volume? And like, as we see, like Jev was just announced kind of two days ago, and I'm really interested. I'm going to spend some time this weekend hacking with that on like analyzing.

• 8:44David Hoffman?

  Talk about what that is. What's Jev?

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Jev is, it's made by one of the former founders or like very early members of OpenAI. And it's a new model that is a bit unique comparatively to, say, you know, ChatGPT or Claude, because it's not a natural language model. You can prompt it in natural language, but it does not respond in natural language. You kind of give it structured outputs that you want, and then it will give you its like probabilistic answers. So it'll say like 95% yes, 5% no, things like that. And what that allows for is it is really, really fast and really cheap comparatively. And so I think that as these sorts of things come out and models get better and faster and cheaper,

• 9:32Speaker 02

  I think that you could probably, using Jev, make something where you paste a smart contract address in of a token and say, analyze this meme coin. Is it, is it bundled? Has this been done before? Is it safe, relatively speaking? And get a really fast answer that is actionable in a way that currently there's not a lot of insight there. You have to really know what you're doing to analyze those types of things.

• 9:55David Hoffman?

  Maybe just to kind of trace over what we've talked about so far. I kind of opened up this conversation with a little bit of frustration of those like, oh, meme coins again. Like, the crypto as an innovation layer, we're not only going so far. But what we've seen with FOMO, what Eric said with FOMO was like, actually, we're getting an illuminated social graph, and that is actually progress. If we're talking about like the tech tree of meme coins, FOMO truly unlocked something with like the social graph. And Andy, I think what you're pointing to is like, there are even further steps down that meme coin tech tree that's not really on-chain. It's not on Solana. It's not on Robinhood chain. It's not in the EDM. But it is in like the social and information layer.

• 10:39David Hoffman?

  And using AI, we can round out some of the pokey edges of the meme coin sector of the internet to, to, I'm not, I don't want to say make it more palatable to mainstream society, but just make it more accessible, less dangerous, less toxic, and potentially more, more positive sum for everyone involved. And that's going to be from the information and social layer.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Hopefully.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I think with that AI tooling, what Andy was saying, like that, that, yeah, that should help with quality. Like if everyone can kind of build their own tooling, very easy in AI and plug in address in quick and look for red flags. Like previously, you kind of had to rely on like deck screen or, you know, at the bottom right, it would have a couple of flags. Now anybody, like it's idea guy summer, right? With AI. So if anybody can code this up and like in theory, hopefully that prevents over time, people from hopping into scams and bundled tokens and cabal dumps and stuff like that. But, you know, that'll take time, but I'm sure people will package to link up like this online and, you know, offer it and stuff like that. So.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  And at the same time, someone else will use the same AI tools to get better at bundling scams. And so it'll always be, it'll always be a game of cat and mouse with that stuff.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  That's just kind of the, like, the realistic part of the meme coin industry in general, but you can at least try to position yourself better.

• 12:02David Hoffman?

  That is like, to me, the interesting thing about meme coins is that they, it is like Bitcoin on the farthest end of the spectrum is a shelling point of attention and it captures value and it like sucks everything in because it's Bitcoin. Now it is the meme. And then meme coins are on the other end. It's like, no, no, no, we like cycle through these things. And that's kind of the point. Like every once in a while, we get a sticky one. But if meme coins, meme coins are like almost by design, not durable because so many people want to like hop and move on their capital from the next to the next to the next meme coin. And that's kind of like a feature for some of these traders. That's where the fun comes from. That's where the entertainment comes from. And it's hard, it makes it hard to reason about because nothing is durable in this space.

• 12:47David Hoffman?

  And so like making it like, like talking about it to anyone who's not in the meme coin sector is always terrible because they like, you're advocating that you like, keep up with the meta. And so it's just like a weird property of meme coins that you don't really find anywhere else is like the, the lack of durability is kind of the point.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's very much an attention economy.

• 13:10David Hoffman?

  Let's talk about the stock paired meme coins, because this is like the one bit of like innovation that we've seen out of the meme coin meta. I don't know where this came from. Was this, we've used AI twice on this episode, one in the traditional sense, meaning artificial intelligence. And then Eric brought up AI, which is a meme coin, artificial Enu. Was that ground zero for stock paired meme coins? Or what was ground zero for stock paired meme coins?

• 13:35Speaker 02

  I couldn't tell you what the first stock paired meme coin was. There probably were some before AI, but AI was kind of the first one to hit some amount of like escape velocity, I would say. So I would, I think for like, that's the conversation, it is ground zero.

• 13:51David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Cause like Mars coin on Binance chain, which is paired with SpaceX. That was also very early. But yeah.

• 13:58David Hoffman?

  So artificial Enu AI, it's fitting like the dog Shiba Inu meme coin form factor. So it's a homage to Shiba Inu. And then it's paired with Nvidia. And right now it's like at a $350 million market cap. I'm using that as like a bellwether for the stock paired meme coin. So if that thing continues to go up, I'm like, okay, it's remains safe to have exposure to the sector of stock paired meme coins. And if that goes down, I'm like, oh, the maybe, maybe the cycle's up. So is that, is that a fair thing? Would you guys agree with that? Like, position of just like the AI meme coin, artificial Enu is like a bellwether for this like whole meta that we're doing?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Everything kind of tracks it already. Kind of like crypto, general majors track Bitcoin. Like you see if AI is going up, some of the other larger stock coins go up and vice versa. And yeah, I think I would agree. AI is kind of the one that kicked it off. I mean, I would say in general, like long.xyz, you know, they, they kind of were the ones that kind of, you know, their platform enabled this and the largest stock paired meme coins generally so far from there. It's not totally true. There's other ones that are, that have done well, of course, but they're kind of like the, they kind of started the whole thing, in my opinion.

• 15:10David Hoffman?

  Just long.xyz is a meme coin launchpad that like specializes in stock paired meme coins?

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can, you can pair with, you know, they were kind of the first to do the pairing launchpad with stocks that really kind of blew up. There's a lot of others out there doing it, but I, I feel like they, they done really good at controlling their brand. Like, you know, that they like invest a lot of time in helping push coins that have been on their platform. You know, they created AI, they, you know, long.xyz is just kind of like the quality behind it right now. There's not a lot of just trash that's being launched there for whatever reason.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  And something else on top of that, I think for, for the same reason is they've, they've started to implement some infrastructure to limit what can be launched. So, you know, traditionally with a meme coin, someone puts out something and it's good. Five other groups of people will all come together and make some scam version of the same thing, try to get momentum to become the biggest one. And just like, people call it like vamp, like vampire attack, a meme coin. On long, they actually, so any token that's launched, that ticker is locked then for 24 hours after that. So no one else can launch the same token for 24 hours. And now I believe they're, they've also implemented stuff where like tokens that have been out for a while and have like AI, for

• 16:25Speaker 02

  example, or some of the other large coins. Like, I don't believe you can ever launch that ticker again. It's just like permanently locked now. And so I think that there's certain things like that that are actually quite valuable in the world of meme coins where it's just like, I think one of the challenges, but also fun parts is it's this, every day there's 10,000 more coins and who, it could be anything. One of the challenges is you get diluted in just 10 different AI coins and they're all fighting for the same thing. Whereas if everyone kind of comes together and says, okay, we like the coins on long, we're going to buy those and support those. And then we, you literally can't launch another AI. That's actually a pretty unique setup for memes.

• 17:02David Hoffman?

  Isn't that kind of the whole game of launchpads is correctly producing strong shelling points in your specific meme coins and like corralling the dispersion towards your coins? I feel like that is, that's how launchpads kind of compete, right?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. They've done a good job at it. I mean, you can even like pair with AI, which has been, you know, a big thing for them. But yeah, I think.

• 17:24David Hoffman?

  So you have like nested LP coins?

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Market cap.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  That had a pair of AI.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. So then, yeah, whoever buys, whoever buys a coin pair with AI, AI goes up and then underneath that, you know, there's Nvidia and all that. So it just kind of, everything plays together. But yeah, I mean, I think they've done a good job with the limiting of tickers and just a focus on quality. I mean, I have a theory that basically every, every major stock is going to have one winning meme stock and that community will kind of be the meme stock for that stock. And I have an even bigger part of that theory where I think eventually these companies will embrace these, these meme stocks. We're already kind of seeing it with Hims and Boner a bit, but with like the CEO of Falling Boner and, you know, I've been on him's house and the investor community seems very interested in it. But if you think about it, there's thousands of people

• 18:11Speaker 01

  holding these coins that are all pretty much interested in being just long and the stock doing long going up. Cause if stock goes up, you know, that it's paired with the coin, the coin goes up too. So I think long did a good job at like limiting the tickers and limiting just kind of one per, because I think that's what's going to happen in this meta to be in with.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Well, and I think kind of like taking it a step further and one of the things that has kind of really spurred on this like stock paired meme coin thing, because, you know, if you just like, if you sit down and just think for a second, you're like, it's no different than being paired against Ether, Bitcoin, or Solana, really.

• 18:46David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  It's just a different underlying.

• 18:48David Hoffman?

  Exactly the same.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, just the underlying asset, maybe you're more bullish on it. And so like, for those who are not familiar, when you're trading coins that are on an AMM, if the underlying asset goes up, your coin automatically goes up because they're, they're paired together. And so you don't want to be paired against something that you think is going to go down in price, because that makes it harder for your coin to go up in price. But I think the other kind of thing here, like Eric has kind of touched on, is there's sort of this unknown of what it could be long term. And it's this, we're getting regulatory clarity on these things all the time. And there's just like, you know, one of the memes that's paired with AI is called board sit. And that, the meme is that

• 19:30Speaker 02

  they're going to accumulate enough Nvidia in the liquidity pool that AI token will get a board seat at Nvidia, which, you know, they need to get like some ridiculous valuation.

• 19:43David Hoffman?

  Nvidia is the hardest mode of all the assets to do. That's the hardest one to do.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  But like even could, is that even possible? Who knows? But it's this kind of new unknown thing that's fun and exciting of like, what if, what if this happens? But then like, we don't really know what's going to happen. And that is able to get people much more interested than just like, okay, another coin paired with Solana. That's, we know, we know what this means. We know what kind of all of the rules of this. There's these, these unknown rules that no one knows and like how things could play out that gives people higher targets and more excitement and more belief that this could be some new thing, which I think is one of the big factors here.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. The funniest thing about that point is I, I think Robinhood themselves doesn't even know sometimes. This is going to point out.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  I don't think anyone knows.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. We even see Vlad kind of tweeting about, wait, can we do in kind? Is this, is it truly back to one to one? Like there's just, it's, there's a lot of unknowns. Like one of the crazier things we see is like, if one of these takes off and there's not a lot of shares from it's on chain, all the shares get swallowed up by the pool and the price of the stock gets disconnected on chain versus off. And then market makers have to step in. So yeah, it's, it's a wild game, but yeah, I don't, I really don't. I mean, I have a theory where this is going, but there's so many unknowns when it comes to this right now.

• 21:00David Hoffman?

  I had Johan from Robinhood on the show yesterday. I recorded him. I asked some of these questions, Eric. And so that episode will actually have already been out by the time this one comes out. And so if any listeners want to learn about LP pools and off market trading price dislocations, I asked Johan about that. I'm so going back to the whole meme coin on the, you know, governance over public equities thing. Like I'm of two minds about this. I wrote the Hims CEO an email to their, to their press and, and like also his email, just found his email. And like this, this is what I do. I ask, I, this is how I find emails. So this is not anything like unique or specific, but just I wrote

• 21:42David Hoffman?

  an email and say, hey, come on bankless. I want to get your take about like what's going on with your tokenized stock. I really made it more about the tokenized stock happening on Robinhood because that's like the bigger subject. Because this was happening at the same time the AMC CEO was blasting Vlad. And so I just wanted to get a public market CEO's opinion about like what they're, what it's like to have their stock tokenized on chain and what they think about that. Also, there was a line item that was like, oh yeah, what, and what do you think about like the meme coin? But I was doing a little bit of math of like, okay, is this even worth this man's time to even to come on this crypto podcast that he's probably never heard of before? And like, talk about his tokenized stock on Robin Hood chain? And I went and I looked at how much of him's tokenized stock there was on Robin Hood chain?

• 22:26David Hoffman?

  And then I looked at the market cap of him's and those two numbers are wildly different. It is like $3.5 million of tokenized stock on a $6.5 billion company. And so I'm like, no way is this man ever replying to this email like this is not worth his time. And of course, he did not respond. I was ghosted. There's, there's nothing is happening on that front. Worth a shot, but like, I like, it's, it seems wishful thinking to think that these public market CEOs are ever going to care about these meme coin communities because not only is there only $3.5 million of tokenized him stock on Robin Hood chain, the boner meme coin LP pool only has like half of that. And so it's even smaller.

• 23:11David Hoffman?

  So that's, that's all on one side of the spectrum. On the other side of the spectrum, Andy talked about how like Shiba Inu or whatever, whatever meme coin went to $40 billion in 2021. And so like, that's the high watermark. And I think that's what gets people's imagination going. But nonetheless, we are so far away from that like possible future. Eric, how do you think about this?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, a couple of things. I think I'll start with for now, the impact might not be there as far as like a ton of shares tokenized on chain. Obviously, these are small like ratios of market cap versus the actual stock market cap. But I think what a CEO of a smaller company could realize is like the fandom that's being created and the marketing that's being created. So I had went on one of these like hymns investor podcasts or whatever. And I haven't looked in a while, but I believe the video that he posted on Twitter got like 250,000 views and like historically his other videos got like 40 to 50,000.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  So, I mean, that's coming from the boner community in that case, right? And I'm sure if Nvidia, there was an Nvidia investor call or something that, you know, AI was involved with. So I think in like, in my X feed, I'm seeing a lot of like him stuff and like things about their stock and like charts and like, so I think they could realize that all of a sudden you've gained 20,000 holders and these people are all of a sudden interested in your company. I don't think that they probably will care too much about the financial impact until one of these hits at least a couple billion, probably. Now, I will say like boner, when it first started pumping, one of the days it did 10% of the volume that the actual hymns stock did on the traditional stock exchange. So the volume can get up there.

• 24:53David Hoffman?

  The, the volume of boner, not the volume of the hymn stock.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  The trading volume, yeah.

• 24:59David Hoffman?

  The trading volume on Robin Hood.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like 10%. So like you, you start to see, and I think like at one point the market cap is like 1% of something or something like that as well. So like all of a sudden, if one of these 20, 30 Xs, you know, over the next month or two, who knows? I'm not saying they're going to, but things could get interesting. I think this kind of goes to Andy's point earlier, like we don't know what's going to happen. So take it, take an example, like what if one of these does flip the market cap of the actual stock? Like what, what breaks? What happens? Like, do we even have the stocks, the stocks to put on chain? I don't know. Shit, this will get weird.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's like a big part of it is there's just so much unknown that you can't price. And so it's just this like total mystery box of outcomes, uh, which is typically in the history of like bull markets of kind of anything, that's like kind of what you need is this like unknown thing that you can't price because you don't know what it is totally yet, um, for people to get really excited about. And it kind of feels like that's what we've found here, even if it's just a meme coin.

• 26:08David Hoffman?

  I've been trading crypto for almost a decade and I've used so many different wallets, exchanges, aggregators, different front ends over the years. And I'm always kind of looking for the same thing, just one interface with deep liquidity across a bunch of chains and assets where I can access all the markets like perps, earn yield, trade confidentially and still control all my own funds. And I've never really found this experience and I'm always switching wallets, juggling gas fees and just getting eaten by slippage. Near.com is not that. It feels fundamentally different to me. I can do everything I want from any chain and I keep all my activity confidential. I can even earn yield confidentially. It's the way crypto should work. The near.com wallet is powered by near and it's moved over $25 billion cross-chain

• 26:51David Hoffman?

  using post-quantum signing and has run over five years on main net with zero downtime. Near.com is simply the best way to be on chain and be in control. Get 20% of your trading fees back using the bankless link in the show notes, not investment advice. Bankless Nation, we've built something for you. Introducing the bankless MCP. ChatGPT and Claude are great at a lot of things, but ask them anything beyond the basics of crypto about protocol mechanics, tokenomics, or just what happened last week in crypto and the gaps will start to show. The problem is context. Bankless, on the other hand, has spent almost a decade building one of the deepest archives of crypto data anywhere. More than 2,000 podcast transcripts, 10,000 articles and countless conversations with the people actually building this industry. And now we've structured all of that data into the bankless MCP.

• 27:35David Hoffman?

  So you can go and connect it to your Claude or ChatGPT and suddenly your AI can answer your crypto queries with the entire bankless archive behind it. And every new bankless article or episode gets added automatically. So the context keeps staying up to date. The bankless MCP is exclusively available to bankless premium subscribers. So you can go to bankless.com, upgrade to premium and connect the MCP in just a few minutes. And all of a sudden, your crypto queries to your AI LLM, whatever you use, will get a thousand times better. So go check it out. There is a link in the show notes and once you become a bankless premium member, you can hop into the bankless Discord and let me know how you like it.

• 28:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Some exciting news. We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it. The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael NATO. He runs the DeFi Report. This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 1010 price drop happened. His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point. I've been following him for years and this year we started recording weekly podcast episodes. Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether and where we are in the cycle. There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday. They're 30 minutes, they're short, they're punchy. I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together. Go subscribe to this podcast, search the DeFi Report, wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes.

• 28:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  There's a new episode waiting for you now.

• 28:56David Hoffman?

  I will say, if you wanted to like paint a pretty strong picture, before I say this, I'll say that Eric is very, very exposed to boner. I'm also exposed to boner. I don't think Andy has some, um.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  I don't have any, no.

• 29:09David Hoffman?

  Yeah, okay.

• 29:11David Hoffman?

  So if you weren't, if you wanted to construct like the perfect structural market structure setup, you would pick a, a equity that has a decent, but not large market cap in the single digit billions perhaps, that also had a very large outstanding short supply on his float, which hymns also has. And so hymns is a $6.5 billion market cap and 30% of the float is shorted. I don't, I don't know why it's shorted so well, but like maybe because people think like margins are going to compress. And so it's like, we are GME adjacent from 2021. Now we're in 2026. And so like that, I think it's like that structural setup of just like, oh, if this

• 29:54David Hoffman?

  meme coin does things that has happened in the past to other meme coins, like it's 30 Xs and then the virality takes over, the short squeeze can like, the tail can wag the dog into the short squeeze on the public market. And I think that's like your structural setup that produces the most imagination, I think, in, in the meme coin people.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I think each meme stock community is going to go about it differently. I think like some are going to go community focused and some are going to go, hey, there's a lot of short float and this company has a low market cap. Can we run it up and see what gets weird? I mean, I think AMC's market cap is only like two and a half billion dollars or something like that. And there was one, one of the meme stocks for AMC ran up to like, I think 50 or 60 million or something like that. I mean, if all of a sudden that runs to a billion.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  125 million.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right. It did. Yeah, that first, that crazy night. So, I mean, you're talking about all of a sudden things. I mean, if it runs to a billion, it's half of the market cap of AMC, like what, what starts happening, right? And yeah, I mean, you're talking memes have run the, you know, 20, 30, 40 billion.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Then that's going to start having an impact at that point.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yes. And then I think the other kind of weird thing that could happen is we're starting to see some significantly smaller publicly traded companies go on chain as well. I don't own any of this, but there was, there was one called like Vita that, uh, like the, I think it was Vita or something like that, where like they're literally trying, they were trying to flip the market cap of the stock and like the CEO was like in, he was like, this is sick. Let's, let's try. And like, it's like the coin was named like Vita CTO, which stands for community takeover. And the joke was like, we're taking over Vita by just like, we're going to flip the stock and just take over the company.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  And I think like, that's probably for one of these, you know, I think odds are they will at some point be a $30 million publicly traded company that ends up on chain that is flipped by a meme coin. Like I think that's kind of an inevitability. And it's just a matter of like, which one is it? And what happens when that happens?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be interesting in that case, will they say like, let's try to just tokenize all our stock on chain, you know, like slowly just try to become the first fully tokenized. Now, it's impossible to do like a hundred percent of course, but someone could just say, hey, let's try to just be the first fully Robin Hood stock, you know?

• 32:19Speaker 02

  And I think the cool thing with that is you end up actually getting, you know, a lot of liquidity for your tokenized stocks through this. Like AI especially has like, let me pull up the exact numbers right now because I have it in front of me, but it has.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  $14 million of liquidity on chain.

• 32:36David Hoffman?

  Is that a lot?

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Which is a lot for, for a meme coin, it's especially a lot.

• 32:41David Hoffman?

  For these days, yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  You know, but for a company's stock tokenized stock to bootstrap liquidity, there's like almost no better way to bootstrap initial on-chain liquidity than meme coins. Cause otherwise, like you need some sort of retail flow to bid the stock on chain. And the best way to do that is with meme coins. And so you end up with this really beneficial for you long-term. If you think that having good liquidity on your stock on chain matters, then you probably want some meme coins that are launching against it to drive volume. So that market makers come and LPs come to make money on that volume.

• 33:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's really good point. So if a, if a stock meme coin gets launched and that LP pool grows, and we have the meme coins on one side and the stock on the other, and both go up, the meme coin goes up in market value and all of a sudden there's more LP, the LP pool is larger. You can bootstrap liquidity without ever touching USDC? Or any other like kind of denominated asset? Like that liquidity works for like dollar buyers?

• 33:44Speaker 02

  So what's happening there is, so in the case of, uh, let's say AI and Nvidia, because it's the largest, um, at least when it first started, if you wanted to buy AI, let's say odds are you probably had either Ethereum or USDG, which is the like stablecoin on Robinhood chain. Also say for the sake of argument, you have Ethereum on Robinhood chain. You have to first through Uniswap buy Nvidia tokenized stock. And then buy from that, sell the tokenized stock to buy AI. And so what that's doing, it's not, it's encouraging people to provide liquidity for the Ethereum Nvidia pair, because any volume driving through AI

• 34:28Speaker 02

  has to be driven, again, early on, now there's way more liquidity pools and stuff, has to be driven through the Ethereum Nvidia pair. And so if you're LPing there, you're just gonna like make a ton of money. And that then incentivizes LPs. And so then you can just provide liquidity for Ethereum and Nvidia, have no risk to AI at all. And you're just making money from retail, buying through FOMO or Pump Fun app or all these different things, because you're eating all the fees on Uniswap.

• 34:56David Hoffman?

  That's wild.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:58David Hoffman?

  That's wild. Yeah. This is kind of like reminding me of like every, not every, but many of the good innovations that came out of crypto started with meme coins bootstrapping something. And like, like, why do we want like tokenized stocks on Robinhood chain? Or like anywhere that you can't do already in your normal brokerage, your normal Charles Schwab or Interactive Brokers or whatever. It's like, well, because of this, like you can do weird shenanigans like this that actually do create like positive market structure in the traditional asset in like the good, normal ways. But just like, it's the tale of meme coins that wagged the dog and you can't do that anywhere else.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so like now, Robinhood tokenized stocks on the weekends are extremely liquid. And that is only because of meme coins. Like obviously over time, I'm sure they would have spent money and resources paying to get liquidity on these things. And now they don't have to, because meme coins did it for them.

• 35:57David Hoffman?

  That's wild. That's wild.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so that's where I think there's benefits that are much larger than like a normal, a traditional pair on Pump Fun or something. But now Pump Fun has integrated, every major launchpad has integrated this too.

• 36:12David Hoffman?

  It's like the structural stuff like this, that actually makes me like somewhat optimistic about this meta. I want to go into, let's ask, I want to ask some FOMO questions, just like strategy for using FOMO, because I've been using FOMO more and more and more like most people who are in the trenches in this industry. And so I'll just kind of like run through some of these things. How do you find coins? Because like the whole idea of FOMO is that you can see what your friends are buying. So that's my dominant like coin discovery channel is like, I see a notification popping up that Eric is buying this one cat coin. I see a notification that Andy's buying this one thing. I open it up in that moment, I decide whether I like it or not. And that's kind of it. So like, is your coin discovery dominantly inside of FOMO?

• 36:57David Hoffman?

  Or if it's not dominantly inside of FOMO, what is your coin discovery process? Andy, I'll start with you.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say for me, it's a bit different. I definitely use FOMO a lot.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Primarily as like just general social graph tracking, seeing what people are buying and selling.

• 37:16David Hoffman?

  For the information side?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, I am just in like a lot of Dgen chats of traders. And yeah, Telegram chats and have like some bot tooling and stuff for new launches and things like that. So a lot of my information comes from Telegram chats primarily. But that's not what the average person's lived experience is going to be. But I, but I do think it is valuable to like have some friends in a chat. If you're trying to trade this stuff in any bit seriously, and just even to bounce ideas off of, or have someone say, hey, I, I found this, I think it's cool. Uh, it can give you a little bit more signal than what you see on FOMO. Uh, but there are certainly times where I'll see someone buy something on FOMO and I'll be like, oh, that's cool. I'll buy it.

• 38:01David Hoffman?

  Okay. So like using FOMO exclusively is probably not positive EV. Who need more signal than just FOMO?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  I think it depends how you trade as well. If you're, you know, I like to sling around in the mud. Uh, I like to roll around in the mud, so to speak. I like to buy coins that are super low market cap, very high risk. Most likely I'm going to lose all my money. But when I hit it well, you hit it, hit it very well. I don't think that trading those types of coins on FOMO and expecting to like win is like the best thing, because you have not only information asymmetry, but also timing asymmetry. Like if you see some guy with a bunch of followers buy this hundred thousand dollar market cap coin, you're probably late at that point. Whereas if you're using it to discover and trade things that are somewhat established

• 38:49Speaker 02

  in the five, 10, 20 million dollar meme coin range, which for most people that if you're trying to trade meme coins, that's what you should be doing. Uh, like it's what I should be doing, but I enjoy what I do.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Then I think it's a totally different ballgame, because it's not this like rush to buy. I have to get it right now. You know, if you buy it, if you don't, it'll probably go back down a bit and you can buy it later, like you're, uh, and so I think that for that sort of trading, using exclusively FOMO for discoverability is like totally fine. And just like figuring out what are people buying, what's interesting? What has a lot of volume of people buying it? Where there's a lot of new people buying and holding. I think FOMO is really, really good for that kind of stuff.

• 39:31David Hoffman?

  Eric, what's your coin discovery process look like?

• 39:33Speaker 02

  So.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  I wish I was. Yeah, my, my strategy's actually changed. I was a little late on the meme and FOMO game in general. Uh, my strategy has changed since I joined. Like when I joined, I was mostly trying to catch big runners, like kind of what Andy's talking about a little bit. I would go like on the graduated tab, you know, which is a dangerous place to be, uh, and, and throw some money at something I thought, like I'm setting up some bot tooling slowly, but generally my, my play is just click it, paste the address in Twitter, see what people are saying quickly about it, run a couple of safety checks on it, see who the holders are, um, and just throw a little money at it. But I feel like now with the capital being spread out so much,

• 40:15Speaker 01

  I've changed a lot in the last couple of weeks to making larger conviction plays and higher cap coins. So I think like 90% of my capital probably over the last few weeks has gone into coins that are already over even like 10 million dollar market caps. I kicked myself a little bit, like I, I saw AI at like, I think like a 25 million dollar cap. I'm like, ah, it's too big already. And here we are at 350 today. I finally dipped the bullet and bought around like 150 or something. But, um, I, I think especially with FOMO was like the most held tab now, people are probably default going to that when they join the app, um, mostly. And they kind of see those most held coins. And I think it's just easier to get, um, larger plays, of course, on higher cap coins.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Um, I'll still take some punts here and there, but at this point, I'm just looking for like new narratives. Cause like the narratives are so recycled, right? Like the new thing kind of is like some devs have come back from the dead from the past, that like cycles and like launch mysterious coins that people don't know what's happening. Like we saw a couple runners in the last week for that. But yeah, I'm trying not to like spread my capital too thin. Cause I like a lot of stuff, like 98% of the stuff seems to be bleeding out, um, over the first couple of days. Right? Um, it's, it's hard to catch one that kind of sticks. But I do agree, like I think with AI being so easy as an artificial intelligence like Claude and not the, not the token, I do think it's smart for everybody to just put in a prompt that says,

• 41:42Speaker 01

  hey, quickly set me up like a meme dashboard, just to plug in an address and create some flags for me and, and track certain, you know, movements on chain or certain traders. Because like Andy said, if you're, if you're buying, if you get that FOMO alert and it's someone with a large following, you're too late. I mean, like on mine, the copy traders on my FOMO now, I buy something that's absolutely insane. Like hundreds of people buy after me, just bots, um, which is actually pretty annoying.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Like 10 minutes later.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really annoying, because the chart's all messed up, then it's stuff, it's ridiculous. But, uh, yeah, so I mean, that's kind of, I, I really don't, I'm actually, people think I'm in like a ton of a cabal chats. I've been like one meme coin trading chat. And it's just like friends.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  It's a very casual chat.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like I'm really not grinding too hard on that side of things. You know, I, I think usually what my strategy is like, take a risk and actually put some size in. And then if things take off, you know, you do, you do pretty well with it.

• 42:39David Hoffman?

  But you guys have talked about just getting bot alerts. What flags are you looking for? Like what are you trying to be alerted about? Say you like see a coin, what are the top three bits of information that you want first and foremost?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  It's a good question. I think like, so either like some semblance of originality or like something that is, that is unique about this. If it's been done a ton of times, it is like hard to get excited about it. Even if it's like, oh, this one's better because of some random reason, you know? So and so has launched it or whatever. Normally that doesn't really move the needle for me.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  And then I would say, like, making sure that the holder distribution is at least okay. It's like now with tooling, it's relatively easy to figure out if you look like, you know, does someone own 85% of this coin? And like, that just never works out. It's, it's never, it's never a good strategy.

• 43:37David Hoffman?

  A shallow genie coefficient is what you're looking for.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah, okay. Good, good spread.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I would say those are really like, yeah, those are really the big things, I would say.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  And then like, I, I like to buy things where I can at least realistically give myself a world where this goes like 100x from where it is currently. That's kind of how I try to think about this stuff is it's like, sure, I could buy this coin. Maybe it'll go up 5x because so and so tweets about it or whatever, like dumb thing people are hoping for. But like, the risk reward of that is not that good versus like, for example, right now, I'll say, and again, not financial advice, you probably shouldn't buy this coin. There's a coin that is called Elon Coin that sends him the fees through Xmoney, which is a new, like the X, X finance, like X has in your like financial services stuff.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  And someone built on top of Pump Fund to automatically convert it and send it to someone's Xmoney account. And to me, that coin is like, likely it's worth nothing and it goes to zero and he never talks about it. But there is some small range of outcomes where Elon tweets, someone sent me $500,000 on Xmoney. Isn't that sick? And this coin goes up 500x in one day.

• 44:50David Hoffman?

  Because it was the coin.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  I want to own some of that because there's a chance. And so it's like, I prefer coins that have what, you know, that this is an extreme example, but I can tell myself the story that it's going to go up a lot. And then it's, it feels like the risk reward is better versus like, oh, this is the 17th dog coin about Nvidia. Maybe this one could be good.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it all comes down to that attention economy, right? I definitely agree with that. And I actually think that's why that people aren't even really talking about this yet. But meme stocks in general, you have the potential of, so people are only thinking about the, the stock, the company coming to the meme. I think it could go the other way around, meaning people in the investor community for these stocks to become interested in the meme. And there's a lot of people and a lot of liquidity and a lot of money in stock trading, right? And if all of a sudden they start to like the meme and kind of see behind it, they might start buying, right? Like, it's hard for crypto to tap outside liquidity and outside buyers. And previously with meme coins, it was like crypto only. But now with these meme stocks, you could see traditional stock traders saying, oh, this one, this is kind of a cool concept.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  I've never done meme coins before. I'm going to buy it because it supports the stock I like. So I think we could, we could see that happen. But going back to the question on the bot, yeah. And Andy mentioned bundles. I think people need to be careful with that. So you might see like a coin launch and the top holder only has like 1%. But what happened on launch is like they sent out 1% to like 50 different people, right? So in theory, 50% of the supply is controlled by one entity. Maybe they're all buddies or whatever. But, um, yeah, so I think looking for that.

• 46:25David Hoffman?

  What's a healthy way for a token to get distributed? Like, because there's always this fundamental problem of like, tokens start concentrated. They diffuse over time. So how do you know like healthy distribution versus like concentrated toxic distribution?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  I mean, I think the most pure would be a dev just launches and takes no supply. And, you know, it's just out there and it takes off and the original buyers are.

• 46:48David Hoffman?

  You put the entire supply into the LP pool and people buy from the LP pool?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, essentially. I mean, it's, yeah, these launchfeds kind of offer that option, right? Like the dev can take a small percent. Of course, like they could launch and buy right away. Like, I'm fine with the devs launching, taking zero supply and like buying a little bit early on or something like that, or even just taking a small cut. It gets interesting though, because like, yeah, if you want to support it, say you like really like a coin early and it's like under a million dollars and you're buying up a bunch trying to support the floor. Like you could end up with like 5% of the supply accidentally. And like, that turns people off on FOMO. They'll see, you have got a bunch, but like really you were kind of, you're the reason that coin, you know, was doing well.

• 47:26David Hoffman?

  Was elevated in the first place.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So like, I've seen people then, if it gets too high, they're like, oh, I'll burn some of the supply or whatever. Just to, you know, I mean, people just send it off and act like they don't have it or however it goes. But yeah, I looked for certain launchfeds too. Like I, there's, you know, certain launchfeds in my opinion do better like, and so that's one of the kind of rules I put in and then like serial launchers, like if someone's launched like 50 coins in the same address, don't touch that. So that's some of the things like my, my tooling looks for.

• 47:54David Hoffman?

  I want to ask about how you guys make the decision to hit the sell button on your losers. And so most like when I'm buying anything below a 10 market cap coin, or really anything I'm buying on FOMO, I kind of think that like the money that I'm buying this token with is gone. It's not coming back. There's no way, unless it does what Andy was kind of talking about of like a one in 5,000 chance of this doing well. And so like, I'm putting money into the slot machine and it's disappearing. I'm not getting it back. It's not an investment. It's not a savings account. It's going away. And that's mostly what happens for most of the coins statistically speaking. And so now I have a ton of like Ls on my FOMO portfolio that still have is like $50.

• 48:39David Hoffman?

  I put in 500, now it's 50, you know, I put in 250, now it's 100. And they're just dust in my FOMO account. And I could sell just like every single one and like recoup, you know, pennies on the dollar of my, you know, quote unquote investments. But then I'm also of the mind of just like, well, you know, what if it's a runner later? Maybe I should just keep my dust. Do you, like, how do you guys manage like your, your Ls? Like, do you sell your Ls? Do you keep your Ls? What do you do with those?

• 49:07Speaker 02

  It changes. It kind of depends, obviously. Like there's some times, like I said, when you're really rolling in the mud, where you buy something and then like five minutes later, you're like, oh, this was a huge mistake. I should not have bought this. I'm going to sell it right now.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  I, I've tried to be better about just like cutting stuff. If I'm like, you know, I had an idea of what this could do. And the more I think about it now that I hold it, I'm like, do I really think that's going to happen? No, I'm just going to sell it.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  I think it can be hard when you have a lot of followers on something like FOMO, where it's like, I don't want to dump on the people who bought because I bought, which is like a tough mental thing to get over and something that I'm still trying to figure out. I've like, I've come around to the idea that I just don't really care. Everyone's a grown up and, you know, they can make their own decisions. But like, I sold over 1% of AI at like a $300,000 market cap.

• 50:01David Hoffman?

  Nice. Thank you for your contributions.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  The battle scars that come along with, with trading and this industry. And so it's like, obviously there's times where you wish you didn't. I think I like, I had sort of overcorrected at that point in time to just like really aggressively cutting stuff that wasn't going and like not thinking enough about like, okay, why did I buy this in the first place?

• 50:26Speaker 02

  But yeah, I think it really depends. Like in my opinion, you should sell all that stuff. And or like, the way that I try to think about it is like, anytime you're not selling a coin, you're basically making the decision to buy it. And so it's like, think about it and say, if I, if I had a hundred dollars right now, would I buy this coin with a hundred dollars? And if the answer is no, then you should sell it. And that's, that's how I try to think about it now.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I've got some horror stories too. I actually think one of FOMO's most viral potential features is where you can share your fumbles. Yeah, early on I was cutting a lot of dust. Like if I went to buy something, I would cut some losses and, you know, do that. I think I'm kind of done with that, especially with my shift to like some higher conviction plays. I generally try not to sell. I mean, I sold, there's a classic, what was it? Fork or whatever, I sold that. I think it was like at a hundred thousand dollar market cap. I just took like a couple thousand dollars of dust out of that to buy something else. And literally the next day I pumped a $32 million. I fumbled like 250 grand just by selling what I thought was dust. So, I mean, I've got a few of those, kind of like Andy was mentioning.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  One man's dust is another man's moonshot, right?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I've tried to like stop cutting. I mean, if I get down, if I'm down like 98% in a coin and it literally is down like a couple bucks and, you know, there's no one talking about it and it's, the chart is just total death, I'll cut it.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  But yeah, I've fumbled some, like I fumbled Orbeo the other day. I sold it like a four million cap and ran up to like 48, like, you know, it just happens. It's part of the game. You know, and the worst is usually your fumbles, you buy something that went to zero. So it's double whammy. But, uh, yeah, I generally try.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Not only did you not make $400,000, you also lost the $5,000.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I get it. I get cutting dust for sure and like losers. But um, I think if you kind of shift to that, like if you're buying stuff you you really like and like think can do well, you're probably less likely to cut it, even if it's down 80% because it has a chance to bounce back.

• 52:26David Hoffman?

  What other FOMO tricks you guys like? I've run out of my FOMO questions, but is there anything I I don't know to ask that I ought to?

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, people, uh, one thing that's interesting is like figuring out how the um, how like the fee take works. So um, it took me a while. Just a tip I'll give people. I think like the best way to take the get the creator rewards is to post thesis early on coins. Um, and see like, I don't know what the algorithm actually is, but I've seen to have better days when I've posted, I've bought, I've posted a thesis early and the coin is like 10x. I think they're kind of paying out, you know, based on how early you are on thesis. So I know some people don't even post it. Like, if you want to make some creator rewards, it's a good way to to make some money. And um, if you post one and at like 100 x's and a lot of people saw that and bought because of it, um, they they

• 53:15Speaker 01

  pay out a lot. So um, that's kind of one tip. It took me a couple of days, a couple of weeks to figure out. Um, but something I've kind of discovered recently.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  No, definitely. The creator rewards are pretty cool. Um, and I I would say like, I think it's good to try to just like find people who you think are better traders than you or smarter than you. And like, not only just like, see what coins they own, but just kind of watch how they operate. When are they selling things? What are they doing? I do think there's a lot that you can just learn about trading, especially if you're new. And honestly, like, I think probably it'd be a great thing to have AI help with for someone is like, open it up on desktop with browser use from whatever AI you like and say, I really want you to, you know, review and analyze the trades of

• 54:07Speaker 02

  this trader and tell me what they're doing differently than me, what they're doing better than me. Uh, I think there's a gold mine of information there that people are not really taking advantage of, myself included. Um, because there are many better traders than me on FOMO. I'm sure about that. And so I think there's a lot of educational stuff that you could figure out because there's so much public information.

• 54:28David Hoffman?

  Even though the the meme coin economy always has felt so opaque, there is nonetheless like a ton of data there. And we do have AI. And so there is some sort of frontier to push there is like, what what does internet, you know, internet capital markets look like when all of that data is truly made accessible by intelligence that's way better than us? And like, what can we do with that?

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Well, and there's also traders who are on FOMO who aren't really trading memes. You know, like one of the larger P and L accounts is this account named Change. I don't know who he is. But like, he mostly just trades, you know, mid-market cap, normal tokens that are, say, in the 100 to 300 million dollar market cap that he thinks are gonna-

• 55:08David Hoffman?

  Like real tokens, not meme coins, but just like-

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, like real project tokens.

• 55:10David Hoffman?

  Like projects.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  That like, you know, so he like, made a ton of money on like VVV or uh, different tokens like that. Um, and like, he just will find a project that he likes and thinks is undervalued and like, almost full port his entire FOMO account and hold it for like two or three months and then sell it all. And he's made a lot of money. And I think, you know, looking at accounts like him and seeing what he does and how he does it, you can probably learn a lot too, even outside of the meme coin world.

• 55:36David Hoffman?

  Cool, guys. Well, hopefully we are at the beginning of a very long cycle. Eric, your uh, $2,500 ETH price target from five years ago still hangs over the the head of the market.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  All time jinx, man. All time jinx. I don't even really have much ETH anymore, but I'll say 20k just so we can get rid of that jinx.

• 55:56David Hoffman?

  20, 20k ETH price target, when? Uh, what quarter 2027 do you think that that happens?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's go with Q3.

• 56:05David Hoffman?

  Q3 2027 is when you should sell it all. Uh, Eric, Andy, thanks for coming on the show today. Appreciate you guys.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Thanks, David.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 56:12David Hoffman?

  Bankless Nation, meme coins are the most risky thing that you could ever do in the crypto industry. They are plenty risky enough. You can lose what you put in, but nonetheless, this is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we are glad you were with us on the Bankless journey. Thanks a lot.