Ep. 933: Ask Me Anything with Steven Rinella

Steven Rinella answers questions from listeners, forums, and reviews including: does hunting need more recruitment; career regrets; the most maligned game animal; guided hunts; the best restaurant meals; invasive species; and more! Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Steven Rinella?

  When you're in the back country, don't forget your own back country. Keep it pristine and confidently clean by bringing along wet, extra-large Dude Wipes. Just like your truck gets muddy out in the wild soaking in your butt. You'd never clean your vehicle with dry paper towels. So why would you clean your butt with dry toilet paper? Wetter cleans better. So ditch the itch and switch from TP to wet, extra-large Dude Wipes. Dude Wipes, it is the best clean pants down. They're available at Amazon. That's where I usually order mine from. But you get them at Walmart nationwide. Fantastic product. Proud to be doing ads for these boys at Dude Wipes.

• 1:46Steven Rinella?

  Welcome to the news show, everybody, but this ain't your normal news show. What this is, is a, this is a ask me, an ask me anything thing. Cause we get, so through the interview show, the Meat Eater Podcast, the interview show, and the news show, and through all the books we do and videos we make, we get all these questions from listeners like you, or viewers like you, or readers like you. And we never have enough time to get to them all. So now and then, in different ways, we will try to tackle the problem of, of, of just like answering questions. And so we've gone to all the normal places to get questions.

• 2:28Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, just questions that come in over email.

• 2:34Steven Rinella?

  Questions in comment sections, questions in reviews, just questions from all over the place. We even solicited questions and questions came in. Pulled questions from, like, questions from online debates and forums and things. And we got a whole bunch. We're gonna start with the questions. First question. You're delivering these questions is, is our very own Nate Mason.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  First question.

• 2:58Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Do you still have that scat coffee table? If so, what's your dream specimen to put in there?

• 3:05Steven Rinella?

  I do not have, I do not have and have not had for a long time, my scat coffee table.

• 3:12Steven Rinella?

  What the question refers to is some years ago, I had this big coffee table and I put a lip around it and got a piece of glass cut for it. And I painted it yellow, like the National Geographic binder yellow on the old magazines. And I just filled it with every kind of animal scat I could find. I had great specimens. I had like a coyote that shat out a deer hoof. I had all, just all kinds of stuff.

• 3:38Steven Rinella?

  The problem I found is even if you dried them or lacquered them, they would still just corrode and just got hard to maintain. But like black bears eating grass, black bears eating pine nuts, grizzlies eating grass, grizzlies eating pine nuts. The one specimen that maybe would have had me keep it alive is I was reading years ago, this, this biologist, I think his name is Michael Fay, and he did this thing called the mega transect, where he did this big transect across the Congo. And for a while, he had this journalist with him. And this journalist was talking about finding a leopard dropping where the leopard had shat out a chimp's finger. If I remember right.

• 4:25Steven Rinella?

  If I had that and found it, it can't be like given to me. If I found that, I would go make me a whole new scat table. And just put that in there.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 4:35Steven Rinella?

  Be the only thing in there.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Where did the scat table depart your life relative to your current wife meeting you?

• 4:46Steven Rinella?

  Long before, it just became a logistics thing because I used to just roam around. Like when I was starting out as a young writer, I didn't have a permanent place of residence for the most part. And so it just became an issue of, of, the same reason I never have like shoulder tax on me done is still from that era of just being worried about things that were hard to move. And so it wasn't like, it wasn't like I like burned it and had like a ceremony. It was just that it became hard to move and I have no idea where it wound up. I probably, almost certainly, it went to a Goodwill. But I don't even remember doing it. I, like, I'm sure I would have emptied it, shopped, backed it out and brought it to a Goodwill. I have no idea what happened to it.

• 5:28Steven Rinella?

  I'd love to have, if anybody has it, I would buy, I'll, I'll buy it back for what you have into it. Matter of fact, I'll, I'll double what you have into it if I can get it back. You'll know it's yellow glass top.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  Next question. Any regrets turning your passion into your career? Did you have reservations when you started down this path?

• 5:51Steven Rinella?

  No. And I, and I'm, I'm, I'm getting into the asker's head a little bit when I guess, like, I'm guessing what they picture is that they picture that my passion was outdoor stuff? Hunting, fishing, trapping, whatever?

• 6:10Steven Rinella?

  I'm guessing they're referring to that and not that my passion was writing. So

• 6:16Steven Rinella?

  a thing I would ask myself, and it's a reasonable question, is be like, what industry are you in? You know, be like, I don't know. Am I in the outdoor industry? Sure, maybe. Am I in the media business? Sure, maybe. Am I a writer? Sure, maybe. Like, you know what I mean? So what I'm guessing is they, no one would say like, the, are, were you ever nervous about turning your passion of writing into an occupation? Because in my mind, being a writer means you make your money from writing. You're probably meaning the outdoor stuff. And no, not at all. I get that question. And I have people, my older half brother, Frank, he was a big hunter and he became a big game guide and he became a game warden.

• 7:03Steven Rinella?

  It ruined hunting for him for many years. When, when he was a game warden, what do you think he's doing on opening day? You know? And, and, and it was like, he later realized, I sort of thought I was like pursuing hunting as a thing and I got to where I wasn't.

• 7:21Steven Rinella?

  So it's a thing that happens. I've never felt that way. I don't know what else. I do know what else I'd be doing and I'd rather do this.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Well, that's, that's the next question. If Meat Eater had never happened and writing didn't put food on the table, what would you be doing for a living right now?

• 7:35Steven Rinella?

  Well, that's two, even that's two separate, different things. Like

• 7:40Steven Rinella?

  had, had I not built Meat Eater, you know, along with many other people, had I not built Meat Eater, I'd be a writer. If I, if I hadn't become a writer, I'd probably, I'd probably have a tree. I guess I'd probably wind up having my own tree service. And I'd probably run a tree service. If it was like writing was out, because that's what I was doing as I was becoming a writer and I had like a side gig and my side gig became less and less vital. It was tree work. So it's so hard to say, but I got into tree, part of getting into tree work was, it was a thing that you could move away from.

• 8:20Steven Rinella?

  You know, for a long time, I, I worked during the summer really hard and saved money so that I could trap all fall. Right? And getting into tree work, part of getting into tree work was

• 8:33Steven Rinella?

  the, the, the nature of the industry allowed you to have big chunks of time to hunt or whatever.

• 8:38Steven Rinella?

  And then when I was ending being in tree work, my, the guy that owned the tree service that I worked for was a writer who was also writing. So for us to get done at noon or one was great because we'd go home, take a nap, wake up, have a cup of coffee and do our writing deals in separate places. And in the morning, we'd get up and do trees. It's also entangled, you know? But yeah, maybe, maybe tree work. I was interested in mill right work for a while, but probably tree work.

• 9:12Steven Rinella?

  Steve's Tree Service.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Were you guys doing big like insurance jobs or?

• 9:17Steven Rinella?

  Man, we did it all. We did contracts, city contracts. One year we did 300 Boulevard Maples in the University District of Missoula. We'd also do big removals, insurance work, hazard stuff, down stuff,

• 9:32Steven Rinella?

  pruning family shade trees. We did everything. Our specialty was stuff you couldn't get a bucket to.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  Yep. You climbed?

• 9:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I was a climber and our specialty was like non-bucket work. So hard to get to stuff.

• 9:47Steven Rinella?

  But we'd get a bucket if we needed it.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:49Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  We'll stop on the tree work stuff, but staying on the book writing and career advice. Someone wrote in, given current and future AI advances, would you consider a career in writing obsolete? If someone has written for magazines and a how to book and wants to be a full time writer after retiring in five to 10 years? Has that window closed?

• 10:14Steven Rinella?

  Depends. Huge depends. If you're the kind of writer who generates, this is an observation, this is a pre AI observation from a writer friend of mine, who would always laugh about that every year in July or whatever, you'd see these articles in magazines, these kind of listicles, we call them. And it would be how to beat the heat this summer.

• 10:41Steven Rinella?

  And every year that it comes back. It's, it's a perpetual article, how to beat the heat this summer or stuff like that. If that's what you're writing, your world is tough. If that's what you're writing, your world is tough. But the thing to always keep in mind about AI, something is interesting is that AI can only draw from what's in the internet.

• 11:04Steven Rinella?

  Right? Like AI can't draw from things that aren't in the internet.

• 11:09Steven Rinella?

  The moment after President Trump was shot in the ear in Butler, Pennsylvania, like in that moment.

• 11:17Steven Rinella?

  AI didn't know.

• 11:20Steven Rinella?

  Who knew? Witnesses? Right? And then it gets fed in and now there's an AI version, but in the moment, there's not. Breaking news

• 11:32Steven Rinella?

  will always be that way. Last night, here's something that's not, here's something that there will be no AI overview of. No AI could not write this article. Last night, yesterday, in the middle of the day, I had to run a bear out of my garage. I'm in my house, middle of the day, and I hear the, something like crashing around in the garage and I go out and there's a bear in there and I run him out and all this little adventure happened. And then later that day, he's in my neighbor's garage.

• 12:00Steven Rinella?

  And I'm kind of getting involved, involved myself in that. Um,

• 12:06Steven Rinella?

  this is, this doesn't exist. This doesn't exist on the internet, right? So it depends what kind of writer you are. It's bad for a lot of kind of writers.

• 12:18Steven Rinella?

  It, it, it's not intimidating to me. It's not intimidating to me because I, I, I, I deal largely in,

• 12:28Steven Rinella?

  I, I deal a lot in things that haven't happened yet. As they're happening and I deal a lot in things where they've already happened, but, but I have a spin on it or I have a take on it that isn't going to be matched by something. As it currently exists, I can smell AI writing a mile away. And not only that, it gets duped. We keep talking about just doing something for fun is just making fake legislation. And then watching, and it'll be 24 hours later, 36 hours later, fake legislation will be in the AI overview. Right? I've seen it happen with fake wildlife news. It's in the AI overview. And you'd be like, where'd it come from? It came from this fake thing that was intentionally written to be fake. So, no.

• 13:13Steven Rinella?

  Not for me, like it doesn't intimidate me, but there's some people I think you should be very afraid. You know, like if you write Broadhead reviews, for instance, or sprinkler reviews.

• 13:28Steven Rinella?

  That's a worse situation.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  The folks I feel real bad for are food bloggers.

• 13:36Steven Rinella?

  I don't know enough about that.

• 13:38Speaker 04

  When I ask chat GPT, how many ads gives me exactly what I need?

• 13:43Steven Rinella?

  Oh. I understand.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  On the topic of AI,

• 13:50Speaker 04

  we at Meat Eater, and this is, this is formed as a question. We at Meat Eater criticize the way data centers are being rolled out and their impact on natural resources. Then we go and run an AI ad.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  How do you think about that conflict?

• 14:06Steven Rinella?

  It's even worse than this person thinks. Think about it like this. Not only is there an ad, think about, we, we a couple of years ago went to Cornell

• 14:16Steven Rinella?

  to meet the people who built the bird app Merlin. And I use the bird app Merlin all the time. So we've, and I've promoted it as one of my favorite apps. Buddy, that's AI. Okay? The other day we were out camping and we're troubleshooting

• 14:36Steven Rinella?

  a solar device. Like an off grid solar device.

• 14:40Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:41Steven Rinella?

  And there's a component. I'm like, can't figure out what the component does. How's it supposed to be configured? Through a Starlink collection, connection, we are going to chat, take a photo of it and through chat GPT, find out not only what the component, everything we need to know about the component out in the woods. And fixed. Okay?

• 15:04Steven Rinella?

  It's, it's, it's not stoppable. What I think the argument is, is the argument is how are we going to do this? How are we going to approach the infrastructure? Are we going to approach it thoughtfully? And are, is the, are the users, the user base, the communities, the nation, are we going to force these enterprises into doing things? In a way that might not be the most expedient, but might be the most sustainable and long-term most pragmatic approaches. Meaning maybe it's easier to go buy land, to go buy grasslands. And there's a bunch of water being unused. Maybe that's easier.

• 15:46Steven Rinella?

  Maybe that's, maybe that's more politically expedient, whatever in some region. Maybe the answer is to really focus heavily on decayed industrial sites. Okay? Offline factories. They're pulling out coal fire generator plants. Have been pulling out like the one where I grew up, the coal fire generator plant where I grew up. Is gone now. Maybe it should be sites like that. Well, that's really expensive. Okay. Maybe that's the way it needs to go. So like, you're not, AI is not going away. I'm not going to stop. I, I'm, I'm going to use it. But I think pressure needs to apply to get it to go the right way. The same way I use oil.

• 16:30Steven Rinella?

  But at times I've been critical of the oil industry and how they approach their business. In terms of just like the ad thing,

• 16:39Steven Rinella?

  a lot of that is exceedingly complicated. And what, what is normally the case is when you use platforms, YouTube, wherever you distribute.

• 16:52Steven Rinella?

  You use platforms and you don't have a lot of say over, you don't have a lot of say over what, or virtual, or no say, like over what's done. If I'm a big Curb Your Enthusiasm fan, if I'm watching Curb Your Enthusiasm highlights on YouTube and I see a YouTube ad pop up, I don't think to myself, oh, Larry David must love this company. He doesn't have anything to do with it. You have some say in what we call PE. So like personally endorsed ads on podcasts. You have a say in it and, and I try to exert a level of control and discipline about doing that. Then you run into the question of

• 17:35Steven Rinella?

  doing the work I do, doing, making the products we make. It's expensive. It requires people. It's like an occupation. People have to be paid. You can't run, this doesn't run on goodwill. So we need to be able to monetize the things or else they die. Right? And so, yeah, it, it's a constant debate and at times I will, not at times, every week I turn down many ads that I don't feel comfortable with. Every week and, and basically throw away,

• 18:15Steven Rinella?

  you know, big chunks of money because I'm like, I don't want to do that. I can't do that.

• 18:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 04

  That tension gets to a question someone asked of what does it actually look like practicing a land ethic when you have the tension of those commercial interests?

• 18:37Speaker 04

  And the commitment to conservation that you have, is it something at meat eater scale today? Is it something concrete that you give up or is it just a way we think about doing business?

• 18:50Steven Rinella?

  Man, it's so hard to say. It's hard to answer because it occurs at so many levels. Like, just take like something like a very basic level would be that

• 19:00Steven Rinella?

  within the meat eater family of brands, there is First Light, the technical hunting and fishing apparel company First Light sits within the meat eater family of brands.

• 19:13Steven Rinella?

  They make camo, okay? Camo clothes. They, we make camo clothes.

• 19:19Steven Rinella?

  So 1% of all camo sales go to conservation organizations. So you'd be like, does, you know, when they're saying like the cost,

• 19:30Steven Rinella?

  it's a cost just right off the top, right? But I don't know.

• 19:37Steven Rinella?

  Maybe some people see that, maybe some people see that and they're like, well, I want to buy from them because they support these things.

• 19:46Steven Rinella?

  I don't know how that balances out. Other things is, is I build in, I try to build in a conservation ethic and build in serious conversations into things to educate listeners and viewers about things that matter to them, probably at a, at a, at a, at times a personal cost and at times a cost to the private performance of our materials. People hate when things like get political. But in my view, everything is political.

• 20:21Steven Rinella?

  Like it or not, fishing, hunting, national parks, national forests, they're political. When, when, when, how many, when the minimum size of a largemouth bass that you can keep goes from 12 inches to 14 inches, as happened when I was growing up in Michigan, that is political because governors are political figures. Governors get elected, governors appoint people, governors influence commissions. Like, there's no part of life that isn't political. Listeners, viewers generally hate it, but I'm like, you have to understand this kind of stuff.

• 20:57Steven Rinella?

  I try to bake in like my operating thesis on videos and stuff is I let it go like 80% entertainment, 20% like, like conservation messaging. I think a lot of people could do without it. But I insist on doing it. If you came and told me, if you were some kind of, if you, if you're really good at metrics and audience assessment and you came and said, listen, man, the whole conservation messaging thing bores people, your material will all do better. If it wasn't in there, your material would do better if you never had political figures on because they're too divisive. Your material do better if you never pointed out ways in which certain sections of the community might be behaving in a way that brings down everybody else or whatever.

• 21:43Steven Rinella?

  Like, don't do any of that. I'd say, I still feel like I have to do that. I still feel like I have to do that because I think it's important to do that. So, yeah, it's like, it's like money.

• 21:56Steven Rinella?

  Another thing is I'm, like, I serve on boards of conservation organizations,

• 22:05Steven Rinella?

  which, which is a time thing. We donate huge amounts of money to things, we raise money for things, we do like our auction house of oddities and all kinds of other fundraisers, our punt gun project, always to donate and feed into conservation groups. It's just a lot. And then there's always the feeling that you didn't get enough done. I suffer from that all the time, the feeling you didn't get enough done. And I think that is, that is the difference between like dot com and dot org, right? Like I serve in a, in a sort of dot com space, you know?

• 22:36Steven Rinella?

  And I think that some people maybe drift toward dot org or drift toward nonprofit work to alleviate some of that tension. But nonprofit work wouldn't produce what I produce. Right?

• 22:51Steven Rinella?

  All the history works we do, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's a great question. It's something I think about all the time. Like, I feel generally really good about where we're at, but I could feel better.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  That raises a question on the political people that we highlight or that we talk about in positive or negative ways.

• 23:12Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  And this is generated from the comments section, I think from Spotify. And a listener called our interview with Senator Heinrich, one of the best shows and says, sportsman must back politician who value wild places. And on the same show, and it's five star review, on the same show, you have a one star review and says, uh, this listener said, the show has become about another elite lib and he's quit over it. And you can't satisfy both. Who, who do you think you're making the show for? Like, how do you think about the tension from both sides?

• 23:43Steven Rinella?

  I'm definitely not making the show for like Republicans and I'm definitely not making it for Democrats.

• 23:50Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 23:54Steven Rinella?

  If I have

• 23:57Steven Rinella?

  I'm mindful of those two terms. And over time,

• 24:03Steven Rinella?

  anytime we have a political politician on, um, people will just look at that, that single thing, and they don't do it with any awareness about the broader work that we do or the long-term thing, and they'll, they'll fixate on that. So I have a Republican on who likes to hunt or works in conservation issues, um, or works against conservation issues, and I feel like people should understand where this guy's coming from. People will see that and it's like, oh, it's a Republican thing. They're not aware that over the long stretch of time, it's very even. It is very even across the, the Republican Democrat political divide over the long period of time. It will remain so. It will remain so.

• 24:46Steven Rinella?

  No one is interested in doing this. But if you, if you really went and looked at the partisan thing over the history of the show, I pride on how even it is.

• 24:58Steven Rinella?

  So I'm aware, who's it for? Who's the show, who I'm making it for? I, like, I want to make it that people can make informed decisions, you know? That, that people can make informed decisions about what's going on. Um, and so I'll, I'll bring on political figures. Uh, a thing I don't do generally, I don't endorse.

• 25:24Steven Rinella?

  I grew

• 25:27Steven Rinella?

  during the Biden administration, I grew

• 25:32Steven Rinella?

  in, in hindsight, no, not, not at all. I grew very disillusioned

• 25:39Steven Rinella?

  with the Biden administration, particularly around how something that was plainly in view for a long time, his, his, him, him becoming senile. And I don't hold it against him. Buddy, if you don't die tragically and young, that's going to happen. Okay? So like, the degree to which it was so apparent that it was happening and it was unclear who was calling the shots. And then you had these people hiding that fact. I grew very, very, very angry with the Biden administration and I would make, not even cracks, I would like point it out.

• 26:23Steven Rinella?

  I think that led a lot of people to think that I was in a certain place that I wasn't politically necessarily, because that was to me like a, like a fundamental sin of the political class was carrying that on.

• 26:38Steven Rinella?

  For him to hand off, for him to, to prolong to the point where they were handing off a nomination instead of holding a primary.

• 26:50Steven Rinella?

  How intentional was that? Like, I was disillusioned with the Biden administration. So then out of that came this narrative to like, oh, you know, he's right wing of Attila the Hun.

• 27:00Steven Rinella?

  And he turned around and like a day later, you have a, like a day later, you have a guy like Heinrich on who I'm friends with and hunt with. And I'm like, and I'm left, you know, I, I'm left of AOC.

• 27:16Steven Rinella?

  Because no one wants to look at the totality of anything. They just want to go off some little thing. And the people bringing this up are often haven't listened to the show.

• 27:24Steven Rinella?

  You typically look and you're like, you saw a social media promo and you don't know anything that was said. I see Rogan go through this all the time. Like people judge Joe Rogan on who he has on, not what is said. And so I don't know, like, I'm like, I'll stop doing what I do.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Let's go to another very heated topic, crossbows. Why does the crossbow draw so much ire inside the archery world?

• 27:55Steven Rinella?

  I've thought about this a great deal.

• 27:59Steven Rinella?

  And I'll take a crack at the cross, not a crack, like, well, funny I say that because you're taking a crack at something in our vernacular, it'd be that you shot something. This is the honest to God truth. It surprises me because I haven't deliberately gone out to do it. I've never shot a crossbow, which kind of blows my mind. I've never fired a crossbow and not because I've been trying not to. I never watched the movie Titanic. And at a point, I didn't watch it because I didn't watch it. I wanted to be like someone that they could study later. Same thing with Dirty Dancing. Never watched it. And then now I make a point not to watch it, just to hold true on not watching it. Because I just want to preserve a mind that hasn't, you

• 28:43Steven Rinella?

  know, taken in certain things. Crossbows, dude, never. But here's the, here's where they get a rub. Here's why people don't like them. It's because it's so hard to learn to shoot a bow.

• 28:55Steven Rinella?

  It takes so much discipline to get good with a bow. It's gotten a lot easier through technology, but it's hard to shoot a bow. And so then there's a bow that's like bow-like, but not really a bow. And anybody can pick it up and be very accurate, burns the ass of people who've done it. And then I think another thing that really burned them is when they started referring to bows as vertical bows. Trying to like, be like, oh, no, no, no, it's just one's vertical and one's horizontal or something. I think that was a bad move. But, but if you're a crossbow person, why do you need archers to be happy about it?

• 29:40Steven Rinella?

  If that's what you like, that's what you like. And people that point out, like in this state, we have in Montana, we have no crossbow season. Some people say, we have no crossbow season. That's just not true. You can hunt with your crossbow for the six-week general season. You can absolutely hunt with your crossbow. Right? So,

• 30:01Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. I don't think you need people, like, I don't know why they want everyone to like them so much. I like to do a little trap and I don't need people to celebrate connoirs.

• 30:15Steven Rinella?

  You know, I don't need them to love them. I like them. They're very effective. I don't need you to love them. So stop worrying about it.

• 30:26Speaker 05

  911, what's your emergency?

• 30:29Speaker 05

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 30:36Speaker 06

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hell, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 30:44Speaker 06

  That's one of the plagues, by the way.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 30:55Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate, an available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off, or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator are trademarks of Ford and Ford's affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  Another tool that drives a lot of controversy is a live scope. Another listener wrote in and asked, which tool is more effective in its respective role? A spotting scope or live scope?

• 32:13Steven Rinella?

  Not even comparable. I mean, absolutely the live scope.

• 32:17Steven Rinella?

  A live scope effectively seals the deal on fish. Right? I was out, not too long ago, out in a boat. I'd been fishing for three days without live scope. And then I went out fishing with live scope for a day. And to be able to fish big northerns and pull up to a spot, determine if there's one there or not. So now you just know that he's there. And then when you present baits to figure out what he's responding to or not responding to, and knowing when to stop because he's approaching it, and knowing when he loses interest and to agitate it, it is catching the fish. The angler is as important to catching the fish as like the

• 33:01Steven Rinella?

  barb on a hook or something. Like, live scope is catching the fish. This, that would piss a lot of live scope guys off, including very dear friends of mine who love live scope. A spotting scope is like supplementary information. I rarely even find something with a spotting scope. I just scrutinize what I found with my binos with a spotting scope. I don't, I don't view it as, like, if I left on a trip and I forgot my binos, I'm going back. I don't care how far I gotta drive back. If I forget a spotting scope, I'd probably be like, eh, dah. All right. Let's keep going. That sucks, but we're not turning back.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  So the live scope's more akin to your binos than a spotter?

• 33:45Steven Rinella?

  Not even then. Wouldn't be close to binos. Wouldn't be close to binos. It's just like, I've, I've done it. I've been on boats. It, it's,

• 33:57Steven Rinella?

  it is fishing. The machine is doing the fishing. You are a, you're like a ride along.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  Well, let's ask a question about where you draw the line on hunting. This comes from a guy who lives on 10 rural acres, full of hickories, walnuts, oaks, and hundreds of squirrels. I shoot squirrels off my back deck. Am I squirrel hunting?

• 34:24Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  Now that, apply that to deer over a pile of corn in my backyard. Where's the line for you?

• 34:29Steven Rinella?

  For me?

• 34:38Steven Rinella?

  I've, it's never come up for me. I don't see, it's not a line. I don't know.

• 34:47Steven Rinella?

  The dude, he's got 10 acres, he's got all these squirrels running around and he gets them off his back deck. Good for him. He's not, he's not like breaking the law, you know?

• 34:57Steven Rinella?

  And if you, if you live in a state where you can run bait and you run bait and you get deer,

• 35:04Steven Rinella?

  great. You're not, you're not, you're not breaking a law. If that's legal where you're legal and you have like good game management system and your game management system determines that that's okay, or like you're baiting bears to bring bears. And I don't feel that it makes it that they have no avenue of escape. At the same time, if someone raises livestock and, and they go out to harvest, you know, they go out to kill a hog, they've been fattening. Do I think it's unethical because the hog couldn't get away? No, but it's just, it's just different. Like, they wouldn't think of it as hunting. I don't think of it as hunting. So I don't view it.

• 35:43Steven Rinella?

  Well, when, when it comes to your own line, there's just things I could point out that I haven't done and they're not appealing to me. I haven't hunted high fence, I've never done high fence hunting. It's not appealing to me. And that pisses people off. Like, if you don't do something, it pisses people off. But what oftentimes happens is it pisses off people who are kind of feeling sensitive about it. Or they feel marginalized, or they want like a broader level of acceptance for something, so it would irritate people. But I've often heard people go out of their way. Someone sent me something recently where, where, like, for instance, like Nugent was on a podcast being somehow like broadcasting a message to me about that hunting

• 36:26Steven Rinella?

  in high fences is just as hard as any, whatever. I don't know. I don't know why it's upsetting. That, that's not appealing to me. And I know people say like, well, it's, some of these areas are so big, it can still get away. It just, it's just not fun. It's not, it's not like an enjoyable thing to me. I like things, I like things that are challenging, but I also oftentimes do hunts that aren't that challenging. You know, like going out on September 15th, hunting squirrels in the beach woods. I know I'm getting squirrels. Any given squirrel out there has an excellent chance of not getting killed, of me not detecting it, of it getting away. But I'm gonna get something probably. And you just kind of go through life like that and pick like, what you want to go out

• 37:11Steven Rinella?

  of your way to do or not. But the biggest thing I tell people on this question is,

• 37:18Steven Rinella?

  People can pick this apart or just kind of accept it at face value. What I'm trying to say is following the regulations as laid out by your state as a hunter, as an angler, following the regulations is 98.5%.

• 37:42Steven Rinella?

  Will get you 98.5% there on the pathway to like ethical or higher. My recommend like, like, don't break the rules. And if your state has rules that don't make sense, take up the issue. But like, stay true to the rules. Most of the rules, there are exceptions. Most of the rules are coming from a well intentioned place. You want to be an ethical hunter, you want to be an ethical fisherman? Start by just try to follow the rules.

• 38:10Speaker 04

  So we talked about things that you're not interested in. Now let's talk about.

• 38:14Steven Rinella?

  What am I not interested in?

• 38:15Speaker 04

  Like you're not interested in hunting high fence stuff.

• 38:18Steven Rinella?

  Personally, no, it doesn't interest me.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  What are your top five bucket list species that you are very interested in?

• 38:24Steven Rinella?

  Man, years ago, I was with some Amerindians and we were in Guyana and we got a couple of arrows into a tape here.

• 38:34Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to, I don't not, I don't want to get a tape. I don't need to like get a tape here, but I want to be with some dudes that get a tape here.

• 38:44Steven Rinella?

  I would like to, that's a big one for me. Be with some dudes to get a tape here. I'd like to, uh,

• 38:54Steven Rinella?

  what else am I real keen on? Oh, a leopard. I was in Africa a couple of summers ago and we were hunting all kinds of super cool stuff. We spent a lot of time talking about leopards and I saw a leopard.

• 39:08Steven Rinella?

  And right now in my mind, I'm very hip on doing leopards. Which I'll point out is a baited, is a baited hunt.

• 39:19Steven Rinella?

  You hang carcasses up in trees or portions of carcasses up in trees and try to get a leopard going. Real excited about that, real hip on that. So watching some dudes get a tape here and butcher it, just a touch of tape here for a minute and a leopard.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Three more.

• 39:33Steven Rinella?

  And I wouldn't mind trying to capybara with some dudes that hunt capybaras. Very situational.

• 39:42Speaker 04

  You mentioned Capricalli the other day?

• 39:44Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I forgot about that. That's a big one for you. Oh, there's two. For years, we've been trying to line out a good Capricalli hunt in Northern Europe. And then, um, and then the oscillated turkey has been, it's been difficult. I'm working a new lead now. It's been difficult to find

• 40:04Steven Rinella?

  a, a reputable place to go hunt oscillated turkeys, not on ag, but to hunt them in the, in the forest. So not ones that are working ag fields, but like to go out in the raw forest.

• 40:21Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to call it jungle, but to go out into the jungle like stuff and hunt oscillated turkeys out on native habitat has been hard to find, but I, hopefully we're getting close.

• 40:32Speaker 04

  What about fish species?

• 40:34Steven Rinella?

  What to catch?

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like what's on your bucket list for fish?

• 40:36Steven Rinella?

  Big old she fish.

• 40:40Steven Rinella?

  Big old she fish.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  Here's a good question that came in. Other than Africa, Mexico and Canada.

• 40:47Steven Rinella?

  I want to shoot a dog tooth tuna with a spear gun.

• 40:52Speaker 04

  Got it. Uh, other than Africa, Mexico and Canada, which country outside North America would you most like to hunt?

• 40:59Steven Rinella?

  Countries. Yeah. Um,

• 41:04Steven Rinella?

  I've spent time in and I remain very, very interested in

• 41:09Steven Rinella?

  spending time in the hunting in fishing in South America, in the, particularly in the jungles. So the Amazon basin, surrounding areas like that, that kind of like rainforest stuff. But then only like, I'm just interested in doing that with native peoples who do that. Like that's what I'm interested in outside of those places. Or in the far north, like in the Arctic, hunting with, hunting marine mammals, whatever, with native hunters who have an ancestral link to the pursuit. Like I, I don't need to be the guy that pulls the trigger at all. But I just, I like, I like to accompany and be there. Yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  A question from the email inbox. What's the most maligned animal in North America that's actually good eating?

• 42:06Steven Rinella?

  The, the one I see people most routinely surprised by is the squirrels, far and away. And then it's kind of maligned by, it's not so much maligned by hunters, but it's maligned by just kind of the public. You know, it's like people express like, ah, squirrels, you know? But just everyone, you know what? I've never served like well-prepared, you know, like well-prepared squirrel to anyone that is, I'm not kidding you, that to, to anyone that has ever had a, a negative reaction to it. It is universally always, God, I can't believe how good that is. Always, always. And so, yeah, that, that's definitely it.

• 42:50Speaker 04

  Someone wrote in, did a lot of you guys grow up hunting squirrels with slingshots? Can we get a slingshot squirrel hunting episode?

• 42:57Steven Rinella?

  No, yes and no. I don't picture making a squirrel hunting. I don't picture making a squirrel hunting episode about slingshots because I'm not that interested in, um, like method of take stuff, like focusing for me. Other guys I work with are into it, but for me, focusing on method of take isn't a big thing for me. Like it, it, it wouldn't be that like, if you, if I love to film stuff about turkeys and someone found some novel way to kill a turkey, I wouldn't sort of be like, oh, no, no, no. This is about killing a turkey with this novel contraption.

• 43:40Steven Rinella?

  I just don't view things that way. I bow hunt during bow season, right? But I don't view it like, I don't, I don't view it as weapon centric, weapon centric viewing. I've met guys who have a sort of check, hunting checklist, like I'd like to get a deer with a pistol. I'd like to get a deer with a longbow. I'd like to get a deer with a crossbow. And they just, in their mind, they're just like, Mark, like how many different ways can I get a deer? I'm not down on it. I just don't care. When we were kids, one of our buddies down the road, his dad worked at a ball bearing factory. Um, what was that place called sealed power?

• 44:17Steven Rinella?

  And so we had never any amounts of what we called steelies back then, ball bearings and steel marbles, you know, for shooting marbles. And, um, we would, we were working on this technology where we were thinking you could take basically a bunch of like

• 44:33Steven Rinella?

  25 caliber

• 44:37Steven Rinella?

  ball bearings and wrap it in masking tape to make a little dense thing. And we were working on a technology by which you would hit a tree by a squirrel. And there'd be such a violent eruption of ball bearings coming out of this masking tape case that you would thereby kill the squirrel, grape shot. And we never, we never got anywhere with it.

• 45:05Steven Rinella?

  I think, I think maybe I've gotten like a blue grouse with, with a wrist rocket now and then, but no, I'm not a slingshot hunter. He should look up a guy named Eddie Corona. Eddie Corona.

• 45:21Speaker 04

  That's a slingshot.

• 45:21Steven Rinella?

  I can't tell you anymore. Eddie Corona. We call him El Jaguar.

• 45:28Steven Rinella?

  Look up that guy.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  Couple of listeners wrote in asking for the best tasting deer. And the list is Axis, Columbia blacktail, sicka blacktail, coos, cows, mule deer or whitetail.

• 45:47Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. It's, it's like, there's such a high level of subjectivity to this. I can say that, that, um, let me tell you some, some sort of universally celebrated critters. The Axis deer, if you talk to people that have, that have access to a lot of cervids, ungulates, whatever, they tend to point out that the Axis deer is exceptional. Um, the, the Sika deer, so not Sitka blacktail, but the Sika deer among people who've had a lot of kind of wild game is regarded as exceptional.

• 46:29Steven Rinella?

  I agree. There aren't many, like the Sika, is that on his list? Sika?

• 46:33Speaker 04

  No, he didn't. That's that little one that runs around Maryland.

• 46:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, listen, there aren't many, there aren't many like cervids that you can take the front leg off a mature male

• 46:46Steven Rinella?

  and put it in a pellet grill

• 46:50Steven Rinella?

  and leave it in there and have it be that you can crumble it apart with your fingers.

• 46:56Steven Rinella?

  That don't happen and that happens with one of them suckers. Yeah, they're good. All that stuff's good. All that stuff's great.

• 47:07Speaker 04

  Another guy writes in, speaking of on Gilletts.

• 47:09Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  When will MeatEater do a northeast moose hunting episode? Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Maine? We want logging roads and clear cuts.

• 47:17Steven Rinella?

  I understand, man. I understand. There's a couple of years I'd put in for moose in Maine. But the thing is, I kind of like, I'm kind of nuts deep in the whole Alaska hunting moose up there. And, and I like have where I like to go. They're huge. You know, it's just like, it's like the land of giants. I love being up there. And because it happens at the same time of year, it's hard to picture peeling off and going somewhere else because I dig that so much. You know, I mean, I love it. So I can't picture

• 47:55Steven Rinella?

  going over in another direction to hunt moose. Maybe I will someday, but I just, I just like, if I weigh in my head, like go up and hunt like

• 48:03Steven Rinella?

  in the interior. You know, and how wild and beautiful that is, the interior of Alaska and or go. I'm just going to go that way for now. It's not to hack on it. It's just, that's what I'd like to do. That's right. Right now, that's where I want to be.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  A guy asked, how beneficial has it been for MeatEater and for you? That your brother Danny is an Alaskan resident?

• 48:30Steven Rinella?

  It's, it's great in a handful of ways. Um, kind of the most obvious one is

• 48:40Steven Rinella?

  I can go, uh, and we've gone over the years, four or five times, I can go sheep hunting with him. So we've gone, uh, long before, long before MeatEater was ever a thing, before it was a show that we made. Or before I ever came up with the name or anything, he and I were, would go on sheep hunts together. Or also never written about this is like, I can go with him. Let me back up. If you have what they call a second, if you have a second degree kindred resident of Alaska relative, okay, that's also like cousin, husband, aunt, uncle, brother, sister, whatever.

• 49:23Steven Rinella?

  There's four animals, the, the guiding restriction falls away.

• 49:32Steven Rinella?

  Mountain goat in Alaska, mountain goats, doll sheep, grizzlies, maybe it's only three. It's three, sorry. There are three species. Mountain goats, doll sheep and grizzlies slash brown bear. If you're a non-resident of Alaska, you have a guide requirement. You have to get a guide to hunt those things. Unless you have a relative there. Um, so if you have a relative there, they can serve sort of like that. They fill the role as a guide and you're, you're eligible to go hunting. There's complications to it. Like over the years, they've kind of made it that like, if I go with him and I get something that actually scratches off his tag. I gotta have my own tag, but it like scratches off his tag in some instances.

• 50:17Steven Rinella?

  But over the years, I've been able to go hunting goats and go hunting sheep with him and he has me like right there with me. And I would have otherwise needed to hire a guide and I don't typically hire guides typically. I do on some kind of times, but typically don't, I just was have been able to go with him. So hugely beneficial.

• 50:37Speaker 04

  Two questions that are,

• 50:40Speaker 04

  two questions from Google Auto Fill.

• 50:43Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 50:43Speaker 04

  Do you do guided hunts? And does your wife hunt?

• 50:47Steven Rinella?

  I've never done, I've never been licensed to guide. I've never done any guiding.

• 50:55Steven Rinella?

  I sometimes will, speaking of my wife, I'll sometimes be talking to my wife and I'll be saying something like, um,

• 51:04Steven Rinella?

  would I ever do that? You know, I don't know. I can't rule that out. That'd be way down the road.

• 51:11Steven Rinella?

  It's hard to picture, but maybe, but no, I've never guided, I've never done any guiding. Um, I feel like it's like a little bit of a, um,

• 51:22Steven Rinella?

  I was gonna say it's like a hole in my resume or something because a lot of the guys I work with have been guides, you know? But no, I don't know if that's true. No, haven't. My wife, no, my wife doesn't hunt, man. She likes to, in the right circumstances, she likes to fish. I found this summer that she would rather, she has much more fun fishing in the boat with my buddies in it than being in my boat. She thinks my boat puts off an anxious energy.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 51:47Steven Rinella?

  She says it just has an energy to it that puts her off.

• 51:53Steven Rinella?

  The other day,

• 51:54Speaker 04

  That's shocking.

• 51:55Steven Rinella?

  I was hiking with my wife and she wanted to go up to this peak and we're coming down and I'm trying to tell her like,

• 52:03Steven Rinella?

  you need to, like the screen wants to flow.

• 52:08Steven Rinella?

  You're trying to stop

• 52:11Steven Rinella?

  on screen. You need to learn just to let it go and you go with it.

• 52:18Steven Rinella?

  And, and even this kind of thing from me is off putting to her. Any number of her friends could say it and she'd be like, oh, that's really interesting. It's just off putting to her. She doesn't want to hear about it from me.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  That's why we go hunt cattails with Tony Peterson. Cam doesn't want to disappoint Tony.

• 52:37Steven Rinella?

  So that does not do with the hunting, but just like an interesting dynamic that she like, she loves to be, she like, like likes to go fishing at our fish shack, but would prefer to not be in my boat. And hunting, no, she's never, she's, when my daughter was going through hunter safety, she thought about doing it. It was kind of thought it might be good. Was drawn to the idea of doing it with our daughter. She didn't do it. But it's funny because when we found out we were having a girl, she was adamant. She's like, you don't, you dare treat her any differently and you better take her hunting. You know, and it's important to her that she does it, but it's just, it's just not appealing to her. You know, not appealing to her.

• 53:16Steven Rinella?

  It might sometime down the road and sometimes I'll get her, she'll be in the right mood and she'll point out that she should, she'd like to check it out sometime. But usually through the lens of, of with our kids, that she wants to experience it with our kids.

• 53:29Steven Rinella?

  And, and this will be coming up. She's actually already planning on going, uh, bear hunting with me and our kids.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Up in Alaska?

• 53:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, coming up. So that'll be different. I was surprised by that.

• 53:44Speaker 05

  911, what's your emergency?

• 53:48Speaker 05

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 54:13Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 55:15Speaker 04

  There's another Alaska question. The recent request for generator suggestions. Reminded a listener of episode 757 where you asked for help with an electrical problem on the GE freezer, the fish shack. Did you ever get it resolved?

• 55:29Steven Rinella?

  Yes, an engineer from GE reached out, we were able to troubleshoot it. I was able to get the part I needed and the part fixed the problem. So yes.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Excellent.

• 55:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Big thanks GE for that help there.

• 55:44Steven Rinella?

  It was great to talk to an actual freezer guy. A pro freezer guy.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Where do you land now on the argument that hunting doesn't need more recruits?

• 55:56Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. That's, yeah, that's, that's a great question. It's something I struggle with all the time. Cause I even struggle like, what does the word recruiting mean? You know? Um, let me lay back up and start with an observation. And this, this, this has been, this is probably over observed. If you go back to 1950, think about this like this, if you go back to 1950,

• 56:19Steven Rinella?

  in 1950, you had about 150 million people in the country, 150 million Americans. Guess what percentage hunted in 1950? 150 million Americans, 1950. It, it like, not, not percentage, but guess the total, sorry, the total number. The total number was about 12 million. About 12 million people hunted in 1950 with a population of 150 million. We now have over twice the population and guess what? How many people hunt now? 15? So you like double the American population.

• 56:57Steven Rinella?

  And you barely creep up the number.

• 57:01Steven Rinella?

  I haven't like got this totally sorted out in my head, but I sort of feel like there's like a carrying, I envision it that there's sort of a carrying capacity of the land.

• 57:12Steven Rinella?

  And it'll sort of be met, always be met with some level of conflict, some level of resource constraint. Um,

• 57:23Steven Rinella?

  To say that you're going to like, go out and recruit a hunter would lead me to believe you're going to go out and try to like convince people. I guess that you're going to convince people that wouldn't otherwise want to hunt, that they should hunt. Like, I just can't see that that's necessary. I am doing right now, I am mentoring a young hunter. My older boy, one of his best friends, is very interested in hunting and comes from a not hunting family, like a very not hunting family, and he's very interested in hunting. I have, we have, me and my boy have really taken him under our wing and have walked him

• 58:06Steven Rinella?

  through all the steps. Like, he borrows our gear, we've taught him everything, and we walked him through the permitting process and put him in for the apps. Like, we've like mentored him. But we mentored him as a person that we enjoy and love, and here he wants to do this thing, and we're uniquely suited to help him do it. And here's the biggest gift we gave him. The biggest gift we could give him, and I hate that word, so like, if he's listening, knows who he was, please understand, I do not view this as a gift I'm giving you, but a thing that we are able to provide, because, because we love this kid to death, a thing we're able to provide is like places to go. We bring him to our spots and he comes with us. He has a standing invitation. If we're going somewhere, he can come with.

• 58:51Steven Rinella?

  We're just hunting grouse with him. Like, he comes out with us. The problem with like formalized, I view like a problem with formalized hunting, hunter recruitment, is it runs into like, well, where are they supposed to go? You can go say to someone like, hey, I'll show you how to shoot a shotgun, I'll teach you how to call a turkey and whatever, but in the end, like, where do they go? And that's why a lot of those programs aren't successful in the long term, is people will go if you take them and you have a place and they have a good chance of success. But when you turn them back out, I think that there's like, they drop out. Why do they drop out? Because it's not readily apparent where they go, and going and finding spots is hard.

• 59:33Steven Rinella?

  Um, and so they don't do it, right? Which leads us to our question is like, or another component of this that I wonder about all the time, is I guess the objective, if you look at conservation organizations that have like a hunting recruitment component to them, I guess the objective is, in their mind, the objective would be that they want to produce hunter conservationists. So the pathway to do this would be to go find people that don't hunt, get them into hunting, and then they get into hunting, and then from there, they hopefully get into the conservation movement.

• 1:00:14Steven Rinella?

  It feels to me that it'd be far more efficient to, why not, let's talk about the 15 million, 14 million, 15 million Americans that are hunting and aren't involved in conservation? Like, that seems more practical and efficient of an approach. Like, what about all these ones that aren't in the conservation movement? Like, the young man I'm mentoring, it will come soon, or I float this with him. I'm like, now that you're doing this and you're into it with us, it's time you look and say like, what do I owe to it? Right? And we'll get there and we'll do that. But I didn't go, offered him to come along with us in the first place with some like

• 1:00:58Steven Rinella?

  long-term plan to build a conservationist. It just wasn't where I am. So I don't, I don't think it's that efficient. If I was, like, when we do, like, at our organization, we do a lot of conservation spending. For me, the best conservation spending, or one of the best ways to spend on conservation is around habitat acquisition, saving habitat, improving habitat, and also, not, little tied to conservation, but a little different is like access improvement, creating places and space for people to enjoy their activity, right? For creating places and space for people to hunt, knowing that those niches will be filled.

• 1:01:41Steven Rinella?

  You can't really point to, in the, in the country, you can't really go like, that there's all these elk tags that are available and no one got them. That, that there's bighorn tags and no one's even there to get the bighorn tag. Because the carrying capacity is, is like full. So just setting out with the specific intention of like, talking people into hunting that don't hunt for, for some payoff down the road, I don't know. I just can't see that as an effective way to get anywhere. Like, I, like, not, and not to begrudge people that do it, like, they should come, I'd have someone on the podcast to explain it to me, but

• 1:02:26Steven Rinella?

  it's not what keeps me up at night.

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  It's interesting, because that's a critique of Meat Eater, is that this organization brings in too many new hunters.

• 1:02:37Steven Rinella?

  Like, people see it and want to get into it?

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:40Steven Rinella?

  Sure, man. When I think about, like, my grandpa was a hunter, well, both my grand, so, I come from hunters on both sides of the family. I'm speaking of my maternal grand, Grandpa Glenn, my maternal grandfather. He always had, he always subscribed to Outdoor Life, Sports of Field, and Field and Stream. And we didn't, we didn't have magazine subscriptions in my house for some reason. But I would go and he would give me all of his magazines, and I would read these magazines, and I would be like, very inspired to do the things in those magazines. The first magazine I ever subscribed to was Trapper and Predator Caller, and I would

• 1:03:24Steven Rinella?

  read Trapper and Predator Caller, and I was like, man, I want to go have like a trap line in Alaska, I want to trap this, I want to trap that. So I'm like, taking it in media, I would go to learn how to do what I do, I would go and buy Tom Miranda's videos. Um, I would buy, uh, um, trying the other prominent trappers who, Mike Marziata, I would buy all of his books, you know, because I wanted to study and learn. So there's like a little bit of a continuum of that people that make books about hunting, or make videos about hunting, like, people are going to use that resource to do the things they want to do. Theodore Roosevelt wrote a hunting book. Was he a hunting influencer?

• 1:04:08Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, but undoubtedly, people read Roosevelt's stuff and got really into it. Aldo Leopold wrote Sand County Almanac. Undoubtedly, people read Sand County Almanac and got into it. I really can't think of the digital space as somehow being different, where there's always been a draw of that you, that hunting media inspires and educates. Fishing media inspires and educates, always has, always will. Even guys I know that are like, like, I know a guy that is just like dead set against hunting media, but it's so funny, because I know his background, and I know that he throughout his life moved to areas and would hunt and fish places that people were already hunting and fishing. And how would he learn to do that?

• 1:04:53Steven Rinella?

  Through hunting media. So you look at his bookshelf, Dwight Schuh, Cam Haynes, The Eastmans, right? He's watching these videos, he's reading this stuff, but then later in hindsight, it's not put together. It's like, you learn to do what you did through media products and trial and error, and you were inspired about what's possible through these things. I remember when I was a little kid, my dad brought home this video, he'd got it from Michigan Boat, some guys at Muskegon Bowman's, and it was like this video about this dude named Art Lahaa. And it was Art Lahaa with a, like, some old timey camera, making all these like crazy videos out of Alaska. I watched that shit and got excited about hunting in Alaska. It just still goes on now.

• 1:05:38Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. Like, I can't picture that, that a writer, or an artist, or whatever they are, would somehow be like, I'm not going to write about the things I'm interested in, for fear that people would want to do it. Like, look at what, take like Sex and the City and Girls, what that must have done to, like, I don't know, did people want to move to Manhattan after watching Sex and the City and Girls? Did like housing costs go up in Manhattan? Yes, probably. Could you, would you like blame the person that wrote that stuff? It's tricky to me. Another, like, on the same criticism is like, that somehow, if you go and write about things or show things to people that they want to then go there, I think, I don't know, like,

• 1:06:20Steven Rinella?

  ultimately in a demographic sense, how effective it is. Because like, the number one place we film in is Alaska, but Alaska's lost population, and their population has gotten older all through the time that I've written about and filmed it. So I feel like something more is going on. Um, we don't do a ton in Austin, but that's like one of the fastest growing zip codes. Florida's a really hot state, I think it's taxes, you know? I don't think it's that we made a thing about osteo-tergies. So like, it just gets, it gets like confusing to me, and I think that people tend to, when they're looking at their woes, there's a tendency to look at the things you're most familiar with. Like, for me, I'd be like, what, what, when Montana had a spasm of explosion that's slowing

• 1:07:05Steven Rinella?

  down now, most sociologists point to COVID. You know? I would be like, is that show Yellowstone, right? Like, you just look and you kind of like lash out at the things that you think are familiar, you know?

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  We had a number of new or aspiring hunters write in, and there's a two-part question that they generally posed. Etiquette on someone giving you their spots? And then a one to five list of how to start hunting?

• 1:07:34Steven Rinella?

  Hold on, etiquette on what?

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  When someone shares with you a spot, lay out the etiquette of you receiving that spot, and then what you do with it.

• 1:07:45Steven Rinella?

  That's, I'm gonna make a very long question. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a very long answer short, and I'm gonna talk about a thing that that's become important to me, or like a way I think that people could avoid these tensions. Talk about it explicitly. Set your expectations explicitly and proactively. If someone takes you to a spot, say-

• 1:08:19Steven Rinella?

  Thank you for taking me here. Th- this has been great. This is, and I don't want to be awkward, but like, how would you like me to handle this information? Right? I have friends, I have friends call me up and they'll be like, man,

• 1:08:37Steven Rinella?

  what would you think if I blank? I'll be like, yeah, yeah, go ahead. You know, but it's like, just be like, and I'd never had these before, but just be really open about it. If you take someone somewhere, you could even say to them like, dude, let me warn you. If I'm gonna take you to this and show you this specific fishing hole that I found, it's really good, like this time of year. And I like to hit it with my kids and everything. If I'm gonna take you, I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna be like, hey, man, don't, don't hit the spot without me. So maybe you shouldn't go with me because you might find it on your own. And when you find it on your own, it's gonna be sweet for you and you can hit it all the time. But if I show you, then we're bound up in this weird deal. So maybe don't even go. Cause you'll find it. And then it's yours.

• 1:09:20Steven Rinella?

  Cause you found it. Like, I can't control that. And in our respect, like, yeah, yeah. I could, I could go on about this area for a long time, but I think like, being explicit with your expectations. Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  The second part of that.

• 1:09:37Steven Rinella?

  I was hiking with a friend of mine who was just visiting from out of state. And we were hiking around and we saw something interesting. And I said, man, you never saw that. He goes, I don't know where I am anyway.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  The second part of that question is, one to five. You don't hunt and you want to get into it. What are the steps?

• 1:09:59Steven Rinella?

  I'm just, I, I see a lot of people get really hung up on, um, get like, a lot of people, get really hung up on this like overwhelming decision-making paralysis they have, like they don't know where to start. Like, I guess you just start. Because yeah, it is being not successful that bad. If, if being not successful means you don't want to go. So you're not going because you might be unsuccessful. It probably is just not for you and like, I don't know, don't go. If you're comfortable being unsuccessful, go, get on X, look at on X and look for bits of public land or access areas you can go into and just go and try.

• 1:10:43Steven Rinella?

  If you don't have public areas, work through your social network, work through your network at work, work through your network at church, work through your network, whatever, write letters, knock on doors, all the things that we all do. And get a place to go. And when you get a place to go, get out and try. And then meanwhile, watch YouTube videos, read books, listen to podcast, all that kind of stuff. But just like go and stop worrying about that you won't get something.

• 1:11:09Steven Rinella?

  Who cares? Just get, and, and you'll just land there. But if you can't enjoy the journey, like screw it.

• 1:11:17Steven Rinella?

  It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's for this, whoever's asking this, it is definitely a recreational pursuit because they don't do it yet. It's recreational. If you can't enjoy the journey, forget about it. You know, just enjoy the journey. Begin.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  Whether a new hunter or an old hunter, what should someone read to learn how whitetails move, what they eat and their patterns?

• 1:11:38Steven Rinella?

  Man, at this point, I don't know that reading is the best bet.

• 1:11:44Steven Rinella?

  There's so many

• 1:11:48Steven Rinella?

  people out there that, um, talk about and make good videos about stuff like how whitetails do what they do.

• 1:11:58Steven Rinella?

  If you're looking at it from a hunting perspective, not from like a biological perspective, but from a hunting perspective, there's so much, there's so much stuff on, on, on YouTube and others where guys explain stuff really well. I don't know that if the strategy, if you just love literature, then I, I don't, I don't know what to tell you.

• 1:12:19Steven Rinella?

  It's, it's different than what I think he's asked. I think he's, he wants to learn like from a pragmatic, like how to get whitetails approach. There's so much good stuff on YouTube. Find someone that like talks the way you talk and thinks the way you think and, and kind of study them.

• 1:12:35Steven Rinella?

  I work with you guys like that do a lot of whitetail stuff, Mark Canyon and Tony Peterson. And, um, I appreciate their perspective on whitetails and the most vivid way to learn from them is to watch the stuff they do. Because it just, because you can see it all happening and it's very educational. And then you gotta spend time applying it. No two places are the same. Like you gotta take all the things you pick up and apply it.

• 1:12:58Speaker 04

  A listener wrote in, if you could eat only one wild game recipe from now on, what would it be?

• 1:13:05Steven Rinella?

  It'd be that I would take, uh, it'd be that I'd take whole muscled chunks of meal deer.

• 1:13:13Steven Rinella?

  And,

• 1:13:18Steven Rinella?

  rub them in salt and pepper. And either sear them in a pan. And then stick them into a 400 degree oven, or I would just brush it with a little oil and put it into a pellet grill.

• 1:13:31Steven Rinella?

  And cook it till it's 135 degrees. And then take it out and let it sit there for eight, 10 minutes and then slice it cross grain.

• 1:13:42Steven Rinella?

  And I could just live on that. I sometimes feel embarrassed about how much of that we eat at my house, like from my wife's perspective. But she doesn't complain because she likes it. And earlier you're talking about my wife doesn't hunt. What's one of the many things I like about my wife is she eats more wild game than, than, this is gonna sound audacious. My wife eats more wild game than 99% of the hunters in this country. Cause she's wild game every day. You know?

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  A number of folks are interested in what the best restaurant meal of your life is.

• 1:14:11Steven Rinella?

  I've had some great ones and I tried to think about that and like, just kind of cool things I've eaten over time here and there, but I think the best, this is gonna come in any surprise to anybody that follows our stuff. I think the best replicable

• 1:14:28Steven Rinella?

  restaurant experience to be had in America that I know about is going to Jesse Griffith's Dido Way.

• 1:14:36Steven Rinella?

  Meaning, replicable meaning like it's in a place people come through. It's in Austin, Texas. It's, it's expensive, but it's not ridiculous. You can get in, it's not like you need to make a reservation years in advance. Like you can kind of go down there and get in. And it's just, it's my favorite. It is in my mind, the, the best restaurant experience I can think of.

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  What's your go-to round?

• 1:15:03Steven Rinella?

  You know, this has become weirdly political. Cause there's always like, it's so funny. Maybe people have always had all these opinions about people, you know, like, like people get all riled up about your rounds and stuff.

• 1:15:19Steven Rinella?

  I shoot, you know, I like to hunt moose, I like to hunt elk,

• 1:15:25Steven Rinella?

  deer, whatever. I can just get a lot done. I can get a lot done very confidently with a 300 win mag. And I also shot it enough that I understand part, I understand it. You know what I mean? Like, like I understand the ballistics. I understand its trajectory. I just understand it. So it becomes that, it becomes, you know, you know, and guys like, and, and, and guys in the worlds of hunting and fishing will, will sometimes be like, it just, it works for me. You know, trappers too, like a trapper will like a certain thing, a certain way. And guys be like, why, why do you use that? I don't use, it just, it just works for me. It like, it fits into my, it fits into my repertoire.

• 1:16:09Steven Rinella?

  300 win mag, it just works for me because I'm like very familiar with it. I, I don't have problems with it. I don't, like recoil doesn't bother me. And it just works for me, but that's not to say it's the best for somebody else. It's just to me,

• 1:16:25Steven Rinella?

  I get it. And it's like, it's a function of age too. Like there's all these, the new calibers come out all the time. Later I've been shooting a 6.5 PRC. I don't even, I love it, love it. But, um,

• 1:16:37Steven Rinella?

  it just, it just is very function. It's just like a very,

• 1:16:43Steven Rinella?

  with 180 grain bullet, 300 win mag, it's huge. But if I shoot a coos deer with it, I don't feel that I have ruined more meat than guys shooting other things. It just doesn't, you know, you punch it back, back a few inches from the front shoulder. It's got a hole like that, kind of falls over. It's just like, it just works. It works.

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• 1:18:38Speaker 04

  A number of lefties and cross-eyed dominant folks wrote in, and they wanted to know what your favorite lefty rifle is over the year, and a guesstimate of how many animals you've shot with right-handed firearms.

• 1:18:51Steven Rinella?

  I never, I didn't, this is the, this is the guy's honest truth. I didn't own a left-handed firearm until I was in my 40s.

• 1:19:03Steven Rinella?

  So everything up to then, I shot with right-handed firearms.

• 1:19:08Steven Rinella?

  When my dad figured out that I was left-eye dominant when I was very little, he had to go buy me left-handed bows.

• 1:19:16Steven Rinella?

  Cause it just doesn't work, you know? Other than that, it was just hand-me-downs. And I just shot right-handed. When I finally did start getting left-handed bolt guns, it took me years to get comfortable throwing the bolt with my left hand. I was so used to throwing the, I was so used to, to, um,

• 1:19:37Steven Rinella?

  taking my hand off the forearm to come back and throw the bolt.

• 1:19:43Steven Rinella?

  Took me a long time to get used to it.

• 1:19:46Steven Rinella?

  Then for a while, I would get into like, I would try to find shotguns. I remember, um, you know, I tried to find shotguns like, like side by sides, or like, I think a Browning BPS had it. Where they had a thumb safety, just like you see on side by sides and over and unders. And I would look for that, a thumb safety. So it wasn't like it was left-handed, it still had a right-handed can, if it had a canted stock. But you could just get it with the thumb. And, and I still today don't care, like shooting a semi-auto, like a lot of semi-autos, like I shoot a Beretta, like I got an A400 and A300 Beretta. You can flip the safety.

• 1:20:29Steven Rinella?

  So the shell still spits out across my face to the right, but I don't even notice it. I don't care. It's got an ambidextrous safety. Cause I used to remember like, when I had a, when I had a safety guard safety, my poise, like ready to shoot, like you're going into the cattail marsh and you just saw a pheasant run in there and you know he's gonna explode. My position would be like this.

• 1:20:51Steven Rinella?

  So my finger could be on, like I'd be like contorted, so my finger's on the safety. Now you can just switch that son of a bitch around and stand normal. And it's a right-handed gun, but just has a left-hand safe. That's all I really care about. And on bolts now, um, I don't even think about it. I can, I shoot left-handed bolts, but if I'm shooting my kids right-handed bolts, I don't, I don't like, I'm not like all flabbergasted about what to do.

• 1:21:17Speaker 04

  On the note of safety, a listener wrote in about what gets somebody cut from your camp for good? From your hunting crew? And have you ever been cut from a camp?

• 1:21:27Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, man, maybe I have. I never had someone tell me I was. Maybe I have been. Well, I don't know, like I, I think that getting cut from camp would be no different than get, than getting cut from coming over for dinner or something. I remember years ago, I had a rider over my house and, um, like a really good rider, came over my house for dinner, a guy, a person I admired. And when he left, my wife said, that guy's not welcome back in the house. And, um, like, if it was camp, he wouldn't be coming, but you know, he wouldn't be coming back either. So I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think it's different.

• 1:22:09Steven Rinella?

  I get like just dickishness or being like, you know, being rude or being,

• 1:22:17Steven Rinella?

  just focused on one's own good, not, not, not teaming up. You know, like, well, I didn't catch any of those fish today, so I'm not gonna clean fish. Which I don't know, just like selfishness, I don't know. The same things would make it that you didn't want them over your house. I don't, I can't think of versions that are like hunting specific. Unless someone, I guess I could. Someone's unsafe with firearm handling and you address it with them. And that's another thing that just has to be out in the open, talked about, which is uncomfortable, but I will say to people, I, I appreciate that, that you don't have a round chambered or whatever you got going on there. But I, please, watch your muzzle, right?

• 1:23:00Steven Rinella?

  If someone's like, hey, I'm gonna do with my muzzle what I will. I don't know, do people do that? If some guy said that, I'd be like, I don't think we can camp together, man. But that just is, it doesn't come up. It's just the normal, normal garden variety dickishness, I guess would do it.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  Do you think hunters are actually winning the public lands fight?

• 1:23:24Steven Rinella?

  I don't know that you win it. I don't think it can be won.

• 1:23:30Steven Rinella?

  I think that it would be much, much worse, much, much worse without hunters.

• 1:23:39Steven Rinella?

  The reason I say that is that, um,

• 1:23:44Steven Rinella?

  when you go to do, and again, people are like, oh, I don't like politics. Well, buddy, public land is political. National forests are political.

• 1:23:55Steven Rinella?

  Public land is political.

• 1:23:58Steven Rinella?

  Most assaults on public land,

• 1:24:03Steven Rinella?

  not most, virtually all assaults on public land, I mean, people that wanna go sell off big blocks of public land.

• 1:24:11Steven Rinella?

  Or strip away protections on big blocks of public land. Like it or not, come from the Republican side of the aisle, okay?

• 1:24:20Steven Rinella?

  Assaults on firearms, assaults on hunting culture in general, come from the Democrat side of the aisle. It's just the, it's just how it is. You can get pissed or you can just accept that that's true.

• 1:24:34Steven Rinella?

  Hunters generally tend, politically tend centrist and tend right. When Republicans are going, when, not just Republicans generally, when certain Republicans, and there are repeat players that just spend their careers trying to assault public lands, when they're doing their little deeds, they know, they've already baked in, they understand where the pressure from the left will come, and they don't care, and they already calculated it in. What surprises them is when a voting block that they view to be friendly,

• 1:25:13Steven Rinella?

  generally supportive, generally favorable impressions of, when that voting block goes, uh-uh, that makes them nervous. Because most politicians, when you look at, like, when you look at exit polls, when you look at election results, politicians are all, all the politicians in America are sitting there on like 51-49 splits, 52-48 splits, 49.5, 50.5 splits. Even in places they regard as, like, you could be regarded as safe on a four or five point spread in this country politically.

• 1:25:59Steven Rinella?

  Congressmen, senators, governors. It's like, no one is sitting out there like, being like, due to 80% of the vote right here in the bag. It just doesn't happen anymore in American politics. So when a politician is looking at, they're looking at their 51-49 split, and within that split, they see that a bunch of that,

• 1:26:21Steven Rinella?

  those ones that hover on that edge, when they're like, man, those guys are pissed. That makes them nervous. So without hunter blowback about public land sell-offs, I think that they would have happened. Because they already know that like Patagonia, not to discredit them, they already know they'll be mad. And they don't care.

• 1:26:46Steven Rinella?

  Right? Or they, or certain organizations, they know. It's like when the ones that they view are like friendly-ish, that makes them nervous. So that little fraction of pushback, which might seem numerically inconsequential winds up being very important when they view what they're working on. So it would be a lot worse if it wasn't for them. I can't, but it's not a thing you'll win. It's not a thing you'll win long-term. To win it long-term, it would be somehow that like,

• 1:27:24Steven Rinella?

  there was some like,

• 1:27:28Steven Rinella?

  you're not gonna win it. I was gonna lay out some wild-ass scenario of American politics that isn't gonna happen. You'll never win. It's just, it'd just be like the same fight over and over again.

• 1:27:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:39Steven Rinella?

  For, yeah, for the, until the end of time.

• 1:27:42Speaker 04

  A few folks wrote in with the comment that you're one of the most influential people in conservation. Just the place that you sit. And what are your thoughts about that? Do you, do you think about it often? Do you spend too much of your time thinking about broken generators? Where do you land?

• 1:28:00Steven Rinella?

  No, I, I, no, I don't think, I really don't think about that. I don't think about it cause it's not fun to think about and I don't think about it cause it, it's just not kind of,

• 1:28:15Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, it's just, it's not, it's not how I view the world. A thing I remember.

• 1:28:23Steven Rinella?

  If you'd asked me, like when I was a kid,

• 1:28:30Steven Rinella?

  when I was in high school and stuff, we were all already like very like we, my family, a lot of my friends, like we were obsessed with hunting and fishing. That was kind of like the main thing we liked to go do. Our main recreational activity was hunting and fishing. And we would look to people that celebrated that lifestyle and be excited about them. I remember we'd go to like Nugent's Whiplash Bash, because Nugent was this like outspoken hunter and advocated for hunters' rights. And so we were excited about him. And so if you'd say like, who, at that time, if you'd have said, who's the most influential person in that space, I would have perceived it being Nugent.

• 1:29:13Steven Rinella?

  Not that he was, because he was a person that guys like me looked up to. And there was this whole Michigan component of it too, because he's like the Motor City Madman. But you'd look up to it because here's this guy celebrating and standing up for a thing we do. You didn't get into it because Nugent got into it, but once you were into it, you recognized his enthusiasm. So if I have like an enthusiasm for it that people enjoy and a perspective about it that people like, like, that's really great. And it'd be, it'd be obnoxious for me to say I don't care. Because if I was the only guy left on earth, I wouldn't write books. Right?

• 1:29:57Steven Rinella?

  I make the things I make. Just like a painter makes painting, a writer makes books, a guy that makes videos, makes videos. I make the things I make because I want them to be seen. I want to share my viewpoint. I would like to, I would like to influence opinion. I would love it if some, you know, if some political figure became accustomed to, you know, listen to the viewpoints I express and like change their mind about something. Or if a, I don't know, man, I could,

• 1:30:35Steven Rinella?

  or if a kid like me who grows up hunting and fishing, like I did, who is unaware of the conservation movement like I was,

• 1:30:46Steven Rinella?

  and then someone brought that to light for me, or I'm sorry, and I could bring that to light for them, the way discovering Aldo Leopold brought it to light for me. I mean, that's absolutely phenomenal. But it's not something else would spend

• 1:31:05Steven Rinella?

  time like actually think, like pondering. I think I am more distracted by broken generators. You know, right now, like to be absolutely honest with you, one of the main things I'm thinking about is moving my raspberry patch. Like I positioned it poorly. And like that takes up a ton of my mind, ton of my mind space.

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  What are the considerations for your raspberry patch?

• 1:31:27Steven Rinella?

  Man, I built it against a wall

• 1:31:31Steven Rinella?

  of the house.

• 1:31:34Steven Rinella?

  And it flourishes. But

• 1:31:39Steven Rinella?

  you'd have to come through the wall

• 1:31:42Steven Rinella?

  to get at the backside of it. It's caused huge problems. I gotta move it out from the wall, but you know how raspberries are, they're tenacious. I'm not running to go around like spraying around broad spectrum herbicides, but I gotta kill off that son of a bitch. And the other problem with it is, is it's like always wet and dank back there. And, and even you can see on the wood is suffering from not getting any air exposure. I got canned the thistle like a bastard growing back there you can't get at. It's just a whole deal. I need to move it out, contain it, trellis it, get at it from both sides. That's what I'm thinking about right now.

• 1:32:23Speaker 04

  Got it?

• 1:32:24Steven Rinella?

  I got a plan.

• 1:32:26Speaker 04

  Excited to see it play out?

• 1:32:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I already talked to my fabricator buddy Travis Barton Fabrication, he's on it too. He's aware.

• 1:32:33Speaker 04

  Um, readers, this is coming from comments on your books as well as podcasts. But readers and listeners, comment on your tangents, both very positively and very negatively.

• 1:32:50Speaker 04

  Some love it, some hate it. Thoughts?

• 1:32:52Steven Rinella?

  Man, there are a lot of things that I would hear and there are a lot of things I hear and they get to me.

• 1:33:03Steven Rinella?

  Not giving

• 1:33:09Steven Rinella?

  accidentally making an environment where a guest isn't able to get their opinion out there because I've cut them off. Like that hurts. Like I don't want to do that.

• 1:33:20Steven Rinella?

  At the same time, I want to make sure that the stuff has a flow to it and that I can kind of get to a lot of places I want to get to. But like hearing that, I'm like, man, I don't want to be like that, do that. Like I see that, I get that I do it, I don't, I don't want to do that.

• 1:33:36Steven Rinella?

  And I'd be like, man, I need to work on finding a way, like I don't, like I hate that.

• 1:33:41Steven Rinella?

  I want to get the show to where I want it to get, I want to cover the subjects I want to do. I want to bring out what I know this guest has to say and not lose our two hours or 90 minutes or 60 minutes on something. But I need to like improve and be better. The tangent thing, like dude, I'm sorry.

• 1:33:59Steven Rinella?

  It's just how I think. Like I wouldn't be me if I, like, if I can't draw,

• 1:34:08Steven Rinella?

  let me put it this way, to me, they're not tangents. To me, it's like, to me, it feels like logical movement. To some people, read it as tangents, but I can't correct it. It's just how I view the world. Things make me think of things. If they make me think of things, it's to me, it just is connected. So no apologies. If you don't like tangents, then I would just go read someone else. Go, go say, go into your AI thing and say, give me some shit with no tangents and see what it comes up with.

• 1:34:42Speaker 04

  Who's the most interesting person in American history that nobody's written a good book about?

• 1:34:47Steven Rinella?

  I can't tell you because I'm writing a book about him.

• 1:34:49Speaker 04

  Second most interesting person that you wouldn't write about?

• 1:34:51Steven Rinella?

  Let me tell you hot, I'm going to answer without answering it.

• 1:34:57Steven Rinella?

  There was, no, I'm not going to get into it.

• 1:35:06Steven Rinella?

  I was going to kind of like, there's a person I'm writing a book about and I was going to talk about the type of person.

• 1:35:15Steven Rinella?

  That if you were going to, that there's a bucket that he was in, if he bucketed people, he was in a bucket.

• 1:35:22Steven Rinella?

  And I was going to talk about the bucket.

• 1:35:26Steven Rinella?

  But if you knew about the bucket,

• 1:35:30Steven Rinella?

  you'd be like, well, who would be in that bucket? And you would so quickly hit on the thing that's

• 1:35:39Steven Rinella?

  in the bucket.

• 1:35:42Speaker 04

  So let's not talk about the bucket. Let's talk about the second person that you'll never write a book about, or it falls out of your purview, but you're really interested in.

• 1:35:55Steven Rinella?

  I don't think I have one. I don't know what you mean.

• 1:35:58Speaker 04

  There's like not a Vietnam vet that you might not, anything, anything in American history. Or George Washington's wife or something.

• 1:36:10Steven Rinella?

  Here's one I throw out to a lot of writers. Whenever I have a friend who's writing something and they finish a book, and I say, hey, what are you going to do next? And then, and then they're like, I don't know, I'm thinking about a lot of things. I always go, you know, you ought to write a book about, because I know I'm not going to get to it. There's this botanist named John Bradbury. And he comes out in the early 1800s to like explore the West and do botany and collect all these examples and stuff. And he has this, like a protege with him.

• 1:36:43Steven Rinella?

  And to the best of my recollection, I haven't read much about Bradbury lately. And he wrote his own journals and stuff. But Bradbury collects all these botanical examples. And then for whatever reason, his protege, I can't remember the details, his protege goes back to Europe.

• 1:36:59Steven Rinella?

  But Bradbury keeps having all this stuff happen that prevents him from getting home. Like for a while, he gets caught up, you know, the New Madrid earthquake? Like, nope, when the river, they talk about rivers flowing backwards and stuff.

• 1:37:10Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:37:11Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And it ties into, that's the crazy thing about the story, it ties into Tecumseh,

• 1:37:18Steven Rinella?

  where Tecumseh the warrior

• 1:37:24Steven Rinella?

  had a prophet brother, right? And they had this prophecy that, that they were going to, Tecumseh's mission was he was going to expel white people from North America. He had this prophet brother and they're like, there will be this big earthquake. And the earthquake happened, it was the New Madrid earthquake. And not only that, but it made rivers flow backwards. The Mississippi flowed backwards for a minute, the New Madrid fall, all this crazy shit. So Bradbury gets like delayed by this. He gets delayed by the War of 1812. And by the time he gets back home, his protege has gone and published his findings.

• 1:38:02Steven Rinella?

  And this is back when, now you think of going, like if you're a European and you go to America, like I'm going to go visit America, okay, like when are you going in two weeks? This is back when going to visit America was like years.

• 1:38:16Steven Rinella?

  That's an interesting dude.

• 1:38:20Speaker 04

  When you read a book that has foreign language in it that you don't understand,

• 1:38:25Speaker 04

  Spanish in the Border Trilogy, do you translate it?

• 1:38:27Steven Rinella?

  No, and it's obnoxious when writers do that. And it tells a lot about who, like, if you read the New Yorker magazine, like, New Yorker's magazine's got a lot of great stuff in it, always has. They'll do like, the writers there will like, be like, oh, I'm gonna put some sentences in French. It's so obnoxious. McCarthy, Corin McCarthy, a favorite writer of mine, has that whole Spanish thing. It's like, what do you, what do you, like, what is that all about?

• 1:38:52Steven Rinella?

  Like, come on. It's obnoxious. It's obnoxious. If I really...

• 1:38:59Steven Rinella?

  It's obnoxious. The only way to handle it would be like, I think that, like, you look at, like, Brian Burrow in his book, The Gunfighters. He talks about the last words ever spoken to Billy the Kid. Okay? He's, they were spoken in Spanish.

• 1:39:21Steven Rinella?

  But it's great to say, it's great for him to be like, here's the last words that ever entered the ear of Billy the Kid, or whatever, right? But then you gotta say what the hell they mean in English. You can't just leave it, like, no writer could be like, here's the last thing he ever heard, which I think is Qianace. Qianace.

• 1:39:45Steven Rinella?

  Don't leave people hanging, dude. Tell them what the hell he's, who is it? Who is it? Whatever the hell it was, I can't remember. I think that was it.

• 1:39:52Speaker 04

  What's the best sentence in American literature?

• 1:39:57Steven Rinella?

  You know, it's hilarious, the other day, we were filming up and we were, we were up in None of It with some whale hunters. And so Dirt, no, someone, yeah, I think Dirt, our camera guy Dirt brought along, he brought along Moby Dick, you know? And we were laughing about, Moby Dick's the only book that anybody, that everybody knows the first sentence, because it's three words, Call Me Ishmael. So we're like, I was like, I see the book, I'm like, dude, I can tell you the first sentence in that book. And we're laughing, like, that's the, if, if there's one book in America that people know the first sentence of, it's Moby Dick, because it's Call Me Ishmael. It's sort of famous for how simple it is. My favorite is, um,

• 1:40:40Steven Rinella?

  "When the dog barks or growls her warning in the night, I question whether it will be a stray cat, a skunk, a killer, or a ghost." That's a fave of mine.

• 1:40:59Steven Rinella?

  Don't you want to know where it came from?

• 1:41:00Speaker 04

  I was gonna let the listeners find out.

• 1:41:02Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:41:04Speaker 04

  Feel free.

• 1:41:04Steven Rinella?

  No, find out.

• 1:41:07Speaker 04

  A listener wrote in wondering if you got his gift, an original hard copy screenplay of Apocalypse Now.

• 1:41:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I have it on my bookshelf in a very prominent location. I can't believe I didn't reach out about this.

• 1:41:20Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 1:41:21Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 1:41:22Steven Rinella?

  Dude, yes.

• 1:41:25Speaker 04

  Hey, we're gonna go on a lightning round.

• 1:41:26Steven Rinella?

  Favorite movie of all time.

• 1:41:27Speaker 04

  Oh, rank your top three Vietnam movies.

• 1:41:33Steven Rinella?

  I don't bucket Apocalypse Now as a Vietnam movie. It transcends genre.

• 1:41:38Speaker 04

  Heart of Darkness.

• 1:41:39Steven Rinella?

  It transcends genre. Um, besides how masterful it is, it's just masterful. I mean, it's like, I'm not alone here. If you go ask film critics for a list of the top 10 greatest movies of all time, it's gonna find its way onto everybody's list. What it is it's about, and it becomes more relevant all the time, is it's about total war.

• 1:41:59Steven Rinella?

  Um, why does America lose its con, like, why after World War II do we lose our conflicts?

• 1:42:11Steven Rinella?

  And it's about total war. The moral of total war. And it's about a person who, Colonel Kurtz,

• 1:42:23Steven Rinella?

  um, him realizing in Vietnam, here's what winning will look like, and I'm going to do it. Right? And the madness of total war. And so just, it just is like, relevant and relevant and relevant and relevant.

• 1:42:37Steven Rinella?

  Our current conflict in Iran.

• 1:42:40Steven Rinella?

  You wanna understand it? Go watch Apocalypse Now. Why are we losing there? It's outlandish. How are we losing there? Well,

• 1:42:49Steven Rinella?

  not comfortable with what it takes to really win. And Kurtz was.

• 1:42:57Steven Rinella?

  Kurtz was.

• 1:43:00Speaker 04

  Speaking of top threes, you can get rid of one of the following, and the other two will remain forever. Hogs?

• 1:43:08Steven Rinella?

  Home of what now?

• 1:43:09Speaker 04

  You can get rid of one of the following animals, and the other two from this list will remain forever.

• 1:43:15Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 1:43:16Speaker 04

  Hogs, Asian carp, or kudzu.

• 1:43:25Steven Rinella?

  Not hogs.

• 1:43:30Steven Rinella?

  God, man.

• 1:43:41Steven Rinella?

  I, I can't say, and here's, here's the reason why it's so tricky.

• 1:43:46Steven Rinella?

  Introducing pathogens and shit into water, like, fish that exist alongside other fish are hard to target.

• 1:43:57Steven Rinella?

  We use, we use rotenone to point, when you've got an overwhelming problem, you use rotenone, and, but you're wiping the slate clean. If you get an invasive fish in a, in a river system, and it gets so bad, right, that you're like, well, total war, you gotta get, you kill all the fish. And then you start over. And it's very hard to do.

• 1:44:27Steven Rinella?

  So I could see it, it's never gonna be that we're gonna develop, like, some fish pathogen or something. I shouldn't say never. It's so hard to picture that we would develop some pathogen, some virus, that we're convinced will only target native carp. We're gonna dump barrels of this shit into the river, and like, all the native carp, all the non-native carp, we're gonna go belly up and float away, and all the other species are gonna be sitting there like, fine. So hard to picture. So if I could take magic to remedy the problem, maybe I would use magic. On the other hand, we have a terrestrial, like, a land-based biodiversity crisis brought on by non-native vegetation.

• 1:45:09Steven Rinella?

  But it picked, but I view it a little bit like, I can just picture a world where some genius comes up with a compound

• 1:45:21Steven Rinella?

  that can be spot-applied on kudzu, and start getting kudzu under control. So maybe it wouldn't require ma, it just, pictures me like, will, will science find a fix for kudzu? Or, or non-native carp quicker? I guess I would just bet on kudzu.

• 1:45:41Steven Rinella?

  But I don't know why. I'm not an expert in this. And so if I could bet on them, then I'd have to use the magic somewhere else. But it's just too, I'd have to spend some time talking to people about that.

• 1:45:51Speaker 04

  Well, let's say you can't, there's no scientific way to do it, and you have a wand that can remove all of the invasives from the water systems, like rivers, lakes, whatever, zebra mussels, catfish, or, sorry, carp.

• 1:46:06Steven Rinella?

  I'd hit that one.

• 1:46:07Speaker 04

  Or all of the non-native plant species.

• 1:46:11Steven Rinella?

  I'd do the water.

• 1:46:11Speaker 04

  Why's that?

• 1:46:17Steven Rinella?

  I love water and I love fish. And it's like, there's like, there's a looming biodiversity crisis in the water from non-natives. And also a risk of, of just everything becoming kind of the same.

• 1:46:32Steven Rinella?

  And, you know, and those Asian carp are gonna, not that the Great Lakes aren't full of non-natives anyways. Yeah, I would just, I would, for me, with what I'm interested in, and where I'm focused, and where I feel like I have a level of expertise, I would just be like, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna blow my wand shake on the water and do non-natives out of the water. And that would mean, when I do that, I will draw the ire of a great many Western fly fishermen who will no longer have their pet rainbows and brown trouts.

• 1:47:09Steven Rinella?

  They're, you know, like, I feel like half of them don't even know it. Not, like, non-natives, rainbows, brown trouts, ain't natives in this area, and in many areas, you know? So, yeah, I'd take on a lot of enemies. I'd take on a ton of enemies. But I, I would do it for the greater good of America's waterways. You, you look at what's going on right now in the Susitna system in Alaska with Northern Pike invading the Susitna systems. It could, could potentially be catastrophic for salmon.

• 1:47:41Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:43Speaker 04

  You can go back in time, or you can transport it here, one extinct animal that you'd like to hunt, including dinosaurs.

• 1:47:52Steven Rinella?

  Passenger pigeons, I guess. Because it's so recent. So recent. And they should be here, you know what I mean? They should be here. When you get into stuff like mammoths or whatever, mammoths are super cool, woolly mammoths, but the verdict is out, you know? People, it's so highly debated, but we don't, we don't know for certain that it was a human-caused extinction. There's, there's a argument to be made that it was, and there's like, really good counter-arguments that it was not. That it was just a thing that would have happened even in the absence of humans. Passenger pigeons are like, it's just, it's just people. People did it, and people did it recently.

• 1:48:38Steven Rinella?

  People did it, they did it recent.

• 1:48:42Steven Rinella?

  A, a, a thing that would be like a beloved game bird. So, yeah, that, that we would have somehow huntable populations of passenger pigeons would be, would be spectacular. Well.

• 1:48:56Speaker 04

  A few listeners want to know your take on Sasquatch anatomy. Is it human style or more like a dog?

• 1:49:06Steven Rinella?

  What do you mean?

• 1:49:07Speaker 04

  It's reproductive parts.

• 1:49:08Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it's pecker?

• 1:49:09Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:49:11Steven Rinella?

  It's definitely like a dog, man. Yeah. It's a, it's a great question. It's definitely like a lipstick.

• 1:49:20Steven Rinella?

  Lipstick stick.

• 1:49:20Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:23Steven Rinella?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:49:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. He's in that running around with a big old hang down, dude. It's like, no one talks about that. Couple people are wondering about it. No, but I mean, the people that run into him.

• 1:49:36Steven Rinella?

  Like, if you see, when you see a naked dude running around.

• 1:49:41Steven Rinella?

  You know, it's like, it's just loud and proud. But it's just, there would be a thing to observe by Sasquatch observe observers. Yeah, it's a lipstick.

• 1:49:54Speaker 04

  Got it. What have you changed your mind about in the last five years?

• 1:50:00Steven Rinella?

  What haven't I changed my mind about in five years? Yeah, I don't mean that. There's many things I haven't changed my mind about in the last five years. I don't know. I change my mind all the time. And I don't think it changed your, people have an idea that changed your mind is kind of like bad. You know, like with politicians, you're always like, he's a flip flopper, you know? And when it's, when it's just, when you flip flop for political expediency, it's one thing. But if you have like an evolving understanding of things, one of the things I, I, I tip on all the time is I'm always like, who's worse? Like, are Democrats worse for hunters and anglers? Or are Republicans worse for hunters and anglers? Like, that's the one I bounce on all the time. And it has a lot to do with what's going on in the moment. You know what I mean?

• 1:50:42Steven Rinella?

  So if I look at areas where there's like a strong Democrat control, I look at like erosion of hunter rights. The way they kind of buckle the animal rights extremists. The way they buckle the gun control people, you know? I look at like, I'm like, ah, sons of bitches. And then Republicans are in and I look at the way they strip land protections away and want to sell public lands off. And I'm like, ah, you sons of bitches. And, and I just, I bounce on stuff like that. Other, we were talking about one the other day, man. It wasn't in the last five years, but we were having a debate with young parents. It'd be like, uh, we're talking with some friends of ours who are, have a baby, a baby, baby.

• 1:51:24Steven Rinella?

  And they're like, hey, where, where did you guys land on like spanking, you know? And we talked about our sort of evolution as parents on that issue. And where we ultimately landed on it and like, did it involve a sort of changing perspective? Right? Something became kind of true that was other than we expected. Um, yeah, I don't know. I guess life's just like that. Life's just like that. And there are other bits, like, then there's other just kind of fun things. I used to be adamant that humans killed off, we talked about this a minute ago. I used to be adamant that humans killed off mammoths.

• 1:52:08Steven Rinella?

  I was adamant that the first Americans arrived, um, via land. Okay. Through a gap in the glaciers. Then I was like adamant that they didn't kill off mammoths. And they maybe arrived on a coastal route. And then I like, I like bounce on that. So everything from like little fun things like that to, um, um, mechanical broadheads versus fixed. You know what I mean? Like, like big things like politics and it's just, it's always, I'm constantly changing my mind about shit. Constantly changing my mind about stuff.

• 1:52:44Speaker 04

  Uh, what are you most excited about in the next year?

• 1:52:53Steven Rinella?

  If I think of like, when I think of excitement, like big excitement stuff, what? All that, that, that really for me is, you know, I was kind of joking early about raspberries, you know? Um, kind of joking because I'm fixated on my raspberry problem right now. But for me, like in all honesty, like in all, like, and like my big heart areas, my big mind areas. My stuff is with, like, I'm with my kids. I'm with that journey of, of raising kids with my wife. Like that's, that's like the one thing that I can't give on. You know what I mean? Like everything, you could strip a very other aspect of my life away.

• 1:53:37Steven Rinella?

  And I'd be sad to see it go, but, but that would be like unlivable. Right? It would, it would be literally unlivable. Meaning if I didn't have them, I would not want, I wouldn't stick around to see the, the other half of life. So, uh, excitement is just seeing them come up, you know? Seeing them come up. It's the main thing. So to give an honest answer, it's, it's just like about their milestones. Uh, my boy is, he's dealing with a knee issue. Like, how is that going to resolve? Like, that's what I'm excited about, all these things.

• 1:54:13Speaker 04

  That's all we had.

• 1:54:14Steven Rinella?

  That's it?

• 1:54:14Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:54:17Steven Rinella?

  All right. There you go.

• 1:54:19Speaker 04

  Thanks for writing in.

• 1:54:19Steven Rinella?

  Ask me anything. So I tell my kids, ask me anything.

• 1:54:24Speaker 04

  If you've got other questions, maybe we'll do this again. Send them to the inbox.

• 1:54:28Steven Rinella?

  All right.

• 1:54:29Speaker 04

  Put it in the comments.

• 1:54:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, please. And maybe in a couple of years we'll get to them. But that, seriously, thanks, everybody that did take time to write in a question. I appreciate it. Uh, and stay, next week, news show, back to normal.

• 1:54:41Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 1:54:42Steven Rinella?

  All news, big and small, next week. Thank you.

• 1:55:11Steven Rinella?

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