Inside Delta Force: Afghanistan, Syria & the War on ISIS | Brent Tucker (throwback ep)

Brent Tucker, a 20-year Army Special Operations veteran, takes us through his path from the National Guard and 20th Special Forces Group to Delta Force, including combat in Afghanistan and Syria, getting shot on a mission, and fighting ISIS. He also discusses Delta selection and training, working alongside the SAS, the physical toll of two decades at war, and his life after the military. Grab some FRCC here: https://frccoffee.com/ To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse 00:00 – Start 02:28 – Growing Up & Joining the Army After 9/11 09:48 – Fighting to Get Into 20th Special Forces Group 16:28 – Becoming an 18 Echo Green Beret 23:22 – Bolivia & Getting Sent to Combat Diver School 29:25 – Surviving the Hardest Military School of His Career 36:32 – Afghanistan With the Commandos 43:57 – Operation Bulldog Bite & Rescuing Pinned-Down U. S. Soldiers 1:02:29 – A Desperate Call for Help From an Isolated Combat Outpost 1:09:14 – Operation Rockstar & Clearing an Enemy-Held Valley 1:19:12 – Trying Out for Delta Force & Failing Selection 1:26:58 – Making Delta & Going Through OTC 1:35:43 – Delta Force Deployments & Getting Shot 1:39:53 – Fighting ISIS in Syria 1:46:56 – Extreme Long-Range Sniping Against ISIS 1:52:36 – The Battle for Raqqa & Returning to HVT Raids 1:58:00 – The Deaths of John Dunbar & SAS Operator Matt Tonroe 2:04:04 – Injuries, Memory Problems & Knowing It Was Time to Retire 2:08:21 – Delta Force Q&A: Selection, Squadron Culture, DEVGRU & SAS 2:17:03 – Life After Delta & Training SWAT Teams 2:21:02 – Starting First Responder Coffee Company 2:24:33 – The Anti-Hero Podcast 2:26:26 – The Rob O’Neill / Bin Laden Controversy 2:29:41 – Giving First Responders a Platform 2:32:55 – Closing Thoughts original air date 9/22/23 Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:28Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 0:36Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Satan swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 0:59Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, welcome to episode 235 of the Team House. I'm Jack Murphy. I'm a

• 1:08Jack Murphy?

  is it over here? Oh, sorry, guys. My phone was on apologies.

• 1:14Jack Murphy?

  So episode 235 of the Team House, we're here with our guest tonight, Brent Tucker. I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. Brent, again, thank you for being on the show tonight. Really appreciate you joining us on a Friday evening.

• 1:27Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I truly do appreciate it.

• 1:30Jack Murphy?

  So again, because I got a little distracted in the beginning. Brent is a 20 year veteran of Army Special Operations. He served in 20th Special Forces Group, and then he served in Delta Force deploying to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. Today, he runs the first responder coffee company, and he's also the co-host of the Antihero Podcast. We're really happy to have you here today, Brent. And you know, I'll kind of start it off from the top, asking the same question I ask all of our guests about their origin story. If you could tell us a little bit about where you grew up, what your upbringing was like, and sort of how that took you on a path towards the military.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. The, I grew up in a small town in Florida, Sanford, Florida, working in a family business. We own Tucker's Farm and Garden Center that my grandfather started. That was, I was one of the few people who didn't want to leave my small town. I just wanted to work in the family business. My, like my, my path in life was, was already set and I was more than happy to go down that path.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  I definitely wasn't a

• 2:38Speaker 04

  an adrenaline junkie as a kid. I was a pretty quiet kid. So definitely not someone you would have, you would have pegged for, for anything in the special operations realm, or even leaving town at any point.

• 2:54Jack Murphy?

  So, so how did that happen? I mean, if you were on this track of like going on, taking over the family business.

• 3:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. So the September 11th happened. I mean, I had, it's, it's crazy. September 10th, September 10th, I'm 20 years old. You know, still chugging down that, that same path that I was on as a, as a little kid. September 11th happened and you know, it changed, it changed my world, the same way it changed a lot of people's world. I I knew I wanted to do something.

• 3:31Speaker 04

  I made a decision that day that I kind of would make time and time again throughout my, my military career when I, when I had to come to make a big decision. Which was I didn't want to live a life with regrets. You know, I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be 70 years old, you know, looking back and said, man, when I was 20, our country got attacked, almost 3,000 people died and I felt like I should have done something, but I just played it safe and stayed in my small town. That, that honestly is the, I mean, there's the genesis right there, that, that line of thinking started it. I raised my hand. It took me till September 27th to actually sign the paperwork. And off I went.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  The, and I, and I only meant to, to do is, you know, a four year stint and then, and come right back to, to my small town. And yeah, as the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. I couldn't have been any more wrong and I continued to be wrong about my career as, as it progressed.

• 4:35Jack Murphy?

  So, so what did you enlist as, as far as like your MOS? What was kind of like your plan going into the military? The one that God laughed at, of course.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. When, when I, I knew nothing about the military and I mean, well, next to nothing. My dad would take me to air shows. My, my dad wanted to be a fighter pilot so bad, I guess, when he was in his late teens. Then eyesight got him and so he didn't, he didn't get a chance to chase that dream. So I definitely grew up in a military friendly family. You know, we watched war movies. My dad made us watch all the Vietnam documentaries and I loved it. So we were, we were a military friendly family, but no one was talking about joining and I had no idea what I was going to join.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  So a good friend of mine that I went to high school with, Jessica Butters, her dad was, was a, all's I knew is that he was in the military. I knew nothing more than that. Come to find out, he was a CW4 at a National Guard unit, a National Guard air defense artillery unit out of Daytona Beach. So he was the first, he was the only person I knew. So I went to him and said, hey, you know, our country got attacked. I want to do something about it. And so I came to him. He gave me pretty good advice. He's like, hey, I'm in the National Guard. I think you should do that. You'll get a chance to fight. You'll get called up.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  But, but you know, you don't have to go away for four years. It sounded like a good plan to me. It sounded like I was going to get what I wanted, which was to deploy.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  And so I went to the recruiter that he recommended me to go to. And for a guy who wanted to join the military and fight, I got put in air defense National Guard, which

• 6:35Speaker 04

  may not have seen a lot of action.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  So that was, that was, it took me about a year to, to, well, probably took, it took, it took less than a year for me to figure that out. But you know, figuring it out is one thing, but doing something about it is, is, is another. So as soon as, as soon as I got a basic in AIT, we did get mobilized to go to the invasion of Iraq and we sat around for like six months in Fort Bliss. And

• 7:09Speaker 04

  at that point, we had a sister battery coming back from Afghanistan. And so I couldn't wait to talk to those guys to see what war was like. And I asked them and they did like a 14 month deployment to Afghanistan. And I found out that

• 7:29Jack Murphy?

  Was this a Patriot missile battery that you were with Brent? Sorry to interrupt.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. So that would have been a part of, of, of the unit. Me in particular, I was in short range air defense, which was Stinger missile operator. So, or Stinger, yeah. So shoulder fired Stinger missiles, 14 Mike, which eventually became 14 Sierra. Cause I had to go to the little bit longer course to do the, the Avengers, like that, that Humvee with the, the, the four missiles on each side of the turret. So that's the Avengers. That's, that's what I went to school for. But when those guys went overseas for 14 months and came back, they just guarded the gates. That's all they did.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  They did nothing but guard the gates, which, which was my worst fear come true. I kind of eventually was slowly figuring out, I don't think the Taliban has a lot of helicopters to shoot down and I'm not sure my skillset will be utilized in the war on terror. So I asked those guys and said, hey, what, like, then who was doing things? And they, they, they told these stories that were probably a little bit true, but a little bit embellished. They'd be like, oh man, these special forces guys, these Green Berets would come on to, would come to our, come to our gate with blood all over their Humvees. And I'd have to be like, hey, Sergeant, I need your IDs. And they'd be like, F you, just open the gate.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  And so I was like, so what'd you do? It was like, well, I opened the gate. What do you, what'd you expect me to do? I was like, man, and a part of me is like, this guy's kind of sound like assholes. And the other part of me is like, those guys sounded really cool. So the

• 9:19Speaker 04

  I eventually found out about 20th Special Forces Group, which is a National Guard group. And that started really my, my, my whole first fight, trying to, trying to do that because we were, we were mobilized at the time, getting ready to go. And that was the nail in the coffin was like, I don't, I don't, I don't want to do this. I want to do that.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  And so it's very difficult as a National Guardsman who's already mobilized and we went through the whole mobilization process. And what, you know, we're supposed to be, even though we didn't leave when we were supposed to, they were going to just kind of hold us in this limbo as a mobilized unit they could call anytime. And so we sat there for months at, at El Paso, waiting for a call that never came. So I started fighting with my, my company leadership then telling me, hey, I want to go to special forces. I want to go to National Guard, to 20th Group. They kept saying, no, they, they told me all sorts of lies, like, well, you have to be an E5 to, to go be a Green Beret. So you'll have to wait a few years. Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 04

  I've been, just talked to a few more people, found out that wasn't true. You know, I mean, just 20th Group, when, in a weird way, has a lot of like,

• 10:39Speaker 04

  With other National Guard units has a lot of myths like surrounding it. Um, and you're like, oh, you can't go to 20th group because you have to be, you know, a, an active duty special forces guy first. And when they come out, that's how they go to 20th group. I mean, just all sorts of things just weren't true.

• 10:59Speaker 04

  I eventually found, I don't know if you guys remember this, you guys remember the AKO white pages?

• 11:05Jack Murphy?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's how I found my 20th group recruiter. I went to the AKO white pages and I Googled uh, 20 special for Googled, uh, searched uh, 20 special forces and I actually found a recruiter number uh, out of Ocala, Florida, which would have been the closest one to me. So I'm still deployed or mobilized in, in Texas and I call him and uh, I still remember the guy who picked up because I ended up, he was a support guy there and, and was a recruiter. He picks up the phone Sergeant First Class Kerry and uh, and I was like, hey, I just want to introduce myself. Uh, my name's Private First Class Tucker and I, I want to be a Green Beret.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  And he asked me like two quick questions, uh, like, yeah, how long you've been, he was like Private First Class. Where you at? I told him, he's like, how long have you been in? Um, and I told him and he basically goes, uh, call me back in like a year and then hangs up the phone. And again, I was like, man, these guys are kind of dicks.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  I, I think maybe I'm a dick, but that's, I don't know. I kind of want to like, I, I love that. Like you're not good enough and you have to prove yourself and you know, this.

• 12:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. It's like, you gotta come and stand out in front of the door and wait, wait your turn.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's not this, everyone gets a trophy mentality. I can't, can't wait to welcome you. You know, I, you know, I, I, I enjoyed that. We, we, we demobilized a few short months later. Uh, I, I called him right back. Um, and talked to someone else on the phone who was a little more welcoming. And told my sob story and said, you know what? Come over here and do a, uh, do a small tryout and we'll, and, and we'll see.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  So I show up knowing absolutely nothing to this small tryout. I knew, they told me to get ready to, to ruck and do a PT test at least. And so I said, okay. And I showed up not knowing anything, but knowing the, hey, like all I know about soldiering is like boots and uniform matters. Uh, and I'm not a Green Beret yet, so I better show up with, with polished boots and a pressed uniform. Uh, and I did that and I was immediately scolded for it and told to get into, to PTs. And uh, don't, don't ever wear those around here again, unless there's some sort of award ceremony going on. And I said, okay, I like this place already. Um, I did the, uh, did the PT test and the, and the ruck.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  And uh, I, I did very well on it. Um, they said, hey, we want to bring you over to our program and send you a selection as soon as possible. Go back and tell your unit that you want to, uh, that you want to transfer over here. And that's where the real fight kind of started. You know, they, they, they had already been giving me a bunch of, you know, uh, slow roll in me. And now they just simply told me, nope, uh, we're not going to send you. But like before the mobilization, we sent a couple of guys over there. They never make it, you know? I'm, don't waste our time with the paperwork. Don't waste your time. We're just not going to send you over there. Um, so I carried that message back to 20th group and uh, the, the Sergeant Major uh, laughed at it and said, hold on.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  I'll, I'll make a phone call. They can't, it's, it's, I told you to do that, but it's really not up to them. Uh, so he makes a, a phone call. Um, I go back to work a couple of days later and they're like, well, you got what you want. Um, I hope you're happy. We'll, we'll see you in a couple of months when you don't make it. Which was one of the best things they could have done for me because I absolutely trained my ass off. Uh, I couldn't stand them anymore. I, I didn't, you know, I had too much pride to, to fight that hard or then, you know, have to swallow it and come back and, and tell them I wasn't good enough. I go to selection a few months later.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  I, I come, I come back. Uh, I think I had to turn in some gear that I still had from them. And for whatever reason, I was kind of hoping that uh, they'd be like, hey, we were wrong about you. Good job. You're like the only guy that's ever, that's ever made it. Uh, instead they're like, well, guess what? You haven't made it yet. You know, half the guys don't make the Q course, so you'll be right back. And uh, that was the last time I saw him. And I'll tell you how petty I can be. When I retired 20 years later after the Delta Force, a part of me wanted to drive down there and, and shove my two 14 in their face and say, see? See, see what I did? Uh, but of course I think everyone there would have been.

• 15:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. They're like, who are you? Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  So that's how, that's how I got to, uh, that's how we got to 20th group. Um, I was uh, unfortunate, I was unfortunate enough to be smart. Um, which means I got to be an 18 Echo. Um, I put, after selection, I put down the four MOSs I, I wanted. I put Bravo, Charlie, Echo, Delta. Um, I sure as heck didn't want to be a Delta. Uh, they said, congratulations. You got, you, you got, you got your top three is, is what the guy told me. And I was like, what's that mean? He goes, uh, you're an Echo. It was in your top three. There's only four choices.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  It was, it was second to last is what, is what I viewed it as. Um, there's two reasons I wasn't real happy about getting neck, being an Echo is because at the time they had a longer uh, Q course than Bravo and Charlie. Uh, and so at, at that time in, in, in 2002, everybody thinks the wars are going to go away if you don't hurry up and get over there. So I wanted a short MOS, Bravo or Charlie. You know, I wanted to try to clip out of Spanish and, you know, and, and be in Afghanistan and, you know, eight, nine, 10 months. I mean, the Q course is already long enough with, without, without the rest of that. Um, again, my, what I wanted never seems to, to work out and I always have to just deal with what I got.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  So I got Echo. Um, I stayed there longer. Uh, I, I tried, I tried to test out of Spanish. I, I missed it by like two questions. Um, and uh, of course, the, you know, the joke's on me. I, I didn't get to miss, maybe I missed the deployment. So instead of 13, maybe, maybe I'd have had 14 if uh, if I got out of there a little quicker. Um, but yeah, there's, there's a, there was a lot of war left and, and really I, I look back at that generation of, of Q course guys. And they were good dudes. Man, I'm telling you, I, I couldn't be, I still talk to some of those guys in the Q course to this day.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Uh, they were such good dudes and they went on to do amazing things. And really little did we know that era of Q course students was really going to see 15 years of war after that, which, which really may be the, the, the most amount of combat, you know, any other generation was, was going to see. And we, we had, we, we had no idea what, what, what, uh, what we were in for.

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  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us.

• 20:01Jack Murphy?

  We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns.

• 20:05Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 20:07Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 20:14Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 20:15Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville, all new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 20:25Jack Murphy?

  Hello, everyone. If you're hearing this, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad-free episodes that come out early. And you can ask us questions. Maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Team House podcast completely ad-free and early. And you can also watch it live as we interview our guests.

• 20:46Jack Murphy?

  And it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com slash the Team House. That link is in the description. We appreciate the supporters and we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com slash the Team House. Thanks, guys.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Brent, I want to ask you a little bit about how 19th and 20th group are structured because we know that the different SF groups generally have, you know, are assigned an area and aligned to a particular area. How like, how did they choose your language? How are 19th and 20th group, the guard units aligned? Yeah, at the time, a battalion aligned with the group. So 3rd Battalion 20th Group aligned with 7th Special Forces Group. So I got Spanish because our battalion was aligned with 7th. Okay. That's, yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  The, well, which, which really kind of gets me into my days with, with 20th Special Forces Group as a Green Beret. I was, I spent my whole guard time as a, you know, as a, as a single guy, just being a guard bum. I just went from set of orders from school to school to deployment to deployment and just stayed active the whole time. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it. As soon as I graduated the Q course, I was on a C-130 down to, down to Bolivia for, for a month.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  I, I had only, I'd only got to see, you know, the, the different ODAs in the company a few times. And I saw these, I saw these guys with the dive team who were just, who were just better than everyone else and were more than happy to prove it. And I, my senior echo on my first ODA was going, was going to dive school because he wanted to go to the, to the dive team. And, and by, by the second or third time, you know, we, we'd done some training together. He looked at me and goes, hey, you should go to dive school too.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  And so I was like, I'd love to go to dive school. He goes, yeah, it's, it's easy. Just, you know, raise your hand. There's always slots. Go to dive school. So I'm getting ready to go down to South America and just like he said, you know, all he had to do was say you wanted to go to dive school and they'll put you in a slot. So I go down to South America. I start training for dive school before South America. As soon as I get to South America, I get an email, back to AKO again. I get an AKO email saying that funding fell through and don't worry about, don't worry about dive school. And so I said, okay. So the next three weeks, I, I went on a very different training regime

• 23:40Speaker 04

  and partied my ass off and had a great time. We, you know, we trained hard, we parted hard. It was a great first, first experience. In fact, that team I went down there with had, you know, their, their Bravo on their team. I'm, you know, went to the unit before me. Their 18 Delta on the team went to the unit as a, as a medic before me. It was, it was a stacked team of, of great dudes that were seasoned guys. You know, they, they'd all, they'd all been to Afghanistan already and multiple trips and they'd all been on the team for like five, six, seven years.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  So it was a great, great first trip learning. I was the only echo on the team. So, you know, it was a great experience as a new guy to have all the commo to fall on me. It was a real cool experience going to hotels and setting up a, you know, Satcom, you know, PSC5 and, you know, shooting out reports, you know, from a hotel room in different cities in Bolivia. Just kind of a, in civilian clothes as, as you're traveling around. So just, just, you know, definitely a cool experience in that part.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  It's a couple of days before dive school is supposed to start and I'm at a roadside cafe in Bolivia and I get an email.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  It's an ATAR's notification saying, giving me, you know, details of checking in to dive school. So I went to the, I went to the warrant officer on the team and I said, hey, this is probably nothing, but I, I did get this ATAR's notification. And he's like, well, if you have an ATAR slot, you're, you're going. You need to get on a plane right now and go to Key West.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  I, I was both excited to hear that and also, you know, it, it like getting punched in the gut going, I, I'm not ready for this.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Let's hope by, you know, you know, but there's a lot of things you can do when you're 24 that, that you can't do later on in life. So I, you know, not to make these stories long, but you know, just kind of, you know, I, I get in a, a a one-way rental car and we drive like me and one other guy that was going to go back with me. Drive like nine hours straight and there's these massive unrest going on because of the, the elections just happened and no one's happy with the, the, the election and there's roadblocks everywhere. We don't, our Spanish actually wasn't too bad, but it, it wasn't enough to be by ourselves negotiating roadblocks.

• 26:27Speaker 04

  We just randomly gave people money that, you know, just kept on giving them money until they seemed to be less angry with us and they let us go. We get to the airport and we landed on a military base dirt runway in the middle of the night, unloaded and left. So I didn't get my passport stamped. When I get to the, when I get to the airport, we're trying to load up and the guy's like, hey, something's weird. You don't have a stamp on your passport. How, how'd you get in the country? And I remember the last thing my warrant officer told me was, hey, if you get in any trouble,

• 27:09Speaker 04

  you know, here's, here's the, here's the, here's the number to the embassy. Call this guy. He, he's our fixer. And so I didn't give him the answer about how we got in here. I just said, hey, you should probably call this guy first. And the guy told me, goes, I don't care who that guy is. How did you get in our country? And you can go ahead and, and start looking at other flights because you're not getting on this one. And I was like, you know, okay, that, that sucks, but you know, call this guy. He walks away 30 seconds later. He looks at me with disgust. He just takes my passport and he stamps it and he says, get out of here. To this day, I don't know who that guy was. I don't know what he told him.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  But, you know, just that it was at the end of the, it was a very cool, non-combat first experience of, of being a Green Beret and just, you know, doing things that really is really unique to, to Green Berets. I end up, I get a, I fly right to Miami and check into dive school and proceed to have the worst six weeks of my life. Pool week was absolutely horrible. Like, you know, I, I quit doing breath holds. I was not ready for it. I was, I got dragged out of the pool, you know, almost every day and asked why, why I suck so much.

• 28:35Speaker 04

  And I just, and I remember calling my dad at one point and saying, hey, dad, we have, you know, the Q course has been a lot, you know, just went on a trip down south. Now I'm in, now I'm in dive school.

• 28:49Speaker 04

  It's just, it's really tough right now. I think, I think I just need to come home for a little bit. And, and, but my dad is not the, the, the guy to, to cry on his shoulder. He's, he's just a very hard man, but, but I also never complained to my dad about anything. So I think my dad knew if I was calling him to tell him things are pretty tough right now, he just said, do what you gotta do, son. And I said, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll call you tomorrow and let you know. And every day I showed up to the pool and had to fake motivation like I wanted to be there when it was everything I didn't want to do. And I never called my dad back and told him that I wasn't coming or was coming.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  My dad said he, he figured that when I didn't call back, he, he knew. And again, my dad's just a hardcore guy. So it's not like he's going to call me and ask what's wrong. That was just the, the odd random conversation we had. It was a fleeting moment of weakness.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  I'll come back to that story here in a little bit because I, I tell on myself later in my career saying, hey, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. And I'll, I'll tell you the one particular like time. It was like the end of pool week and you're just, you know, you're just physically exhausted. And they, they put us in, and again, and part of it was why it was so hard is because I, I wasn't ready for it. So, I mean, I'm not saying it would have been easy otherwise, but I definitely didn't help myself out. They put us in the pool and they're gonna have us do these um uh sprints and they said, hey, and they told us, hey, bring, bring two shirts to the pool this day.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  Um, and so at the very end of the day, they uh they said, hey, get, get one shirt wet, take your, take your brown shirt off, put them in both your hands. And that's what you're gonna swim in to get to the other side of the pool, these two soggy shirts. And uh, they said pays to be a winner, first one to the other side of the pool gets to get out. And um, and so everyone, you know, swam as hard as they could to get to the side of the pool. And uh, they didn't let anyone out of the pool. They're like, hey, but that's not this round. Um, they sent us back and forth, back and forth, like 15 times. No one gets out of the pool. Um, and it sounds dramatic, but it's just true. Like guys are getting fished out of the pool.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  Because yeah, they're, they're, they're cramping up, um, and they're giving it their all and they're just and I remember thinking, you know, looking to the guy beside me on the gondola. And, and we didn't say it, but we both, you know, looked at each other, just, you know, said, this sucks. Um, yeah, that, that look at, that empty look in another guy's eyes when he's, when he's just giving it his all.

• 31:38Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  And, yeah, we've all, we've all been there. Um, and I remember thinking to myself, I got one more in me and if uh, if they don't get us out of the pool, I'm, I'm quitting. Cause I'll end up at the bottom of this pool if they send me again. So they send us again. I get to the other side of the pool. And I'm talking, I'm, I'm coaxing myself up, you know, well, this is, it's time, it's, it's time to quit, it's time to quit. And me and that guy look at each other one more time. And uh, we both kind of shake our heads like this sucks. And um, and he goes, F it, I quit and gets out of the pool. And I remember looking at him getting on the pool and thinking,

• 32:22Speaker 04

  you quitter, I can't believe

• 32:26Speaker 04

  what's wrong with you? Knowing that I was just as big as I, if he wanted to beat me to it, I probably, I probably would have quit. And uh, and just like, do you remember watching him quit? Just disgusted me. And uh, I stayed in the pool, we went back and forth or six or seven times. But I, I guess maybe he, he left me some of his energy on, on uh, on the way out. Uh, super glad I got dive school out, uh, out of the way early in my career. Uh, um, like, insert joke here, but like, like most divers, uh, I'm a, I'm a proud diver and really, uh, really proud of that accomplishment.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Um, the, and it, and it got me to work on the best O D A I, I ever worked with, best group of guys. Uh, honestly, I ended up having, one of my best deployments in my military was a 20th group deployment with that dive team running the commandos out of Afghanistan. We were just, you know, just one, a group of, of really good friends deploy together, have the same mindset. Uh, and just wanted to get after it. Um, to, to this day, one, one of my, one of my, one of my best experiences in the military. And, and dive school is what it kind of afforded me that uh, that possibility.

• 33:42Jack Murphy?

  I, you know, it's interesting because I, I want to paint sort of the picture for people who may not understand. Earlier, when you're talking about going to dive school or, you know, the, the chance to go to combat diver school. You know, you said, the, the senior echo said, there are always bullets available, there's always slots open. And, and the reason for that is because combat diver is such a notoriously hard school that people don't sign up for it in general. Like it is, it's one of those schools that somebody has to generally be really motivated to go to because it is such like a dick dryer.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  I don't know if I'd have gone back. I, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I mean, I think if I didn't have to make that decision, I'd, I'd, I'd like to think that with a little bit of rest and, you know, I'd have, I'd have, I'd have got back on there. Um, I was really lucky in uh, in my career that to, to have not have recycled uh, to not, uh, we'll get to it a little bit. There's one thing I recycled, but it, but S F didn't, didn't hand that to me. Um, and, and dive school. I'm not saying the Q course was easy, by no means was the Q course easy. You know, the Q course had really tough days in it. Uh, but just for just an absolute smoke session, day in, day out, you know, running red line the whole time.

• 35:07Speaker 04

  Dive school without a doubt was the hardest military school I went to.

• 35:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So talk to us about that, that deployment that it led you into with the Kandak commandos.

• 35:18Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, so we, um, I had a

• 35:25Speaker 04

  I had, I'd been selected uh, for, for the unit. Um, actually, uh, I, I, I got selected and I, I told him to, hey, we're on the verge of a, of another deployment. And I, and I want to go back to this uh, um, well, I should say my second time at selection, I get selected and, and we're going uh, I want to do this, this deployment with, with, with, with our guys, this one last hurrah, if you will. And I told him that and, and they, they were like, absolutely, you just not going anywhere. Go, you know, go, go, go fight with your guys. I think they, they respected that.

• 36:02Speaker 04

  Um, so I go to, so that was really cool in a weird way, kind of being a, a made man and, and 20th group as a, a guy already selected to go to the unit. Um, and uh,

• 36:15Speaker 04

  it, it was such a great mission. Um, so we didn't have any air assets dedicated to us, you know, we didn't, but we got a lot of aviation assets given to us by the battle space owner. And how those deals usually worked was, of course, we're, you know, you know, we're, uh, we had plenty of direct action targets that we collected the intel for and we, you know, we, uh, here's a, here's a blast from the past. If you remember terms like J P L targets. Um, so we had our, our list of J P Ls to go after, but most of them required to, to do it properly, you know, aviation assets.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  Um, and the battle space owner was interested in giving us aviation assets. But the, the battle space owner is actually a, a really, a really good dude. Um, and uh, he also wanted to work out of us and smartly so. Um, he would give us assets if we would do missions for him. And what he wanted from us was to take our commandos and do valley clearing operations for, for his conventional forces. Which really was, which is a great opportunity, you know, really for us too. Like, and, and he's absolutely right. Like that's, the commandos should have been at the very forward edge of those

• 37:36Speaker 04

  valley clearing operations, you know, taking bullets that so Americans don't have to. It's, it's, it's their country. They're a motivated unit. They were more than happy to do it. Um, they had a short shelf life. So if it wasn't, you know, if, I can't remember the exact hours, it's 48 or 72. And uh, trust me, they, they knew what the, the shelf life was. It's even, it's in their charter and I want to say it's 72. So if, you know, if 72 hours is about to come up, they're, they'll let you know, hey, we're, our, our work's done here. This is, this is, this is as much as we're allowed to suck and, and, and on more than one occasion, for a unit that can't logistically do anything on their own.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  If they're on an operation, a valid clearing operation, then longer than 72 hours, they'll, they will find taxis to come pick them up in the middle of the woods. All of a sudden, they're logistical masters and can find their way back to base. But they can't find their way to a mission to save their life. Um, that's, I know I just said they're, they, and they were a great partner for us, but that's, that was a uh, that was a reality of them. I'm telling you, I feel like uh, you know, the, the more experience I got in S F, the more Robin Sage was real.

• 38:56Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  You know, I remember being Robin Sage going, I have to show up and beg these, you know, these fake G's to let me in their camp and to, to, and to fight with me like we're, in the real world, we're Americans with, with, you know, with bombers and suitcases full of money. No one's, you know, I don't have to, I don't have to beg anyone to come fight with us. Uh, and there I am in Afghanistan, begging our commandos not to leave us going, I, am I Robin Sage right now? This is, this is crazy. Um, but sure enough, happened on more than one occasion. Um, but those valid clearing operations were great.

• 39:36Speaker 04

  Uh, they, they did suck. I mean, everyone prefers to, to get on a helicopter, hit a target in the middle of the night, not miss a meal or a workout. Um, they, they could be trying, you know, even, even those, yeah, even, and they're still considered short duration missions at three and four days. Um, I'm, I'm sure there's some conventional guy listening to me whining about being out for three or four days. Um, but they uh, you know, when it was cold, it was freezing cold. When it was hot, it was miserably hot. And uh, they would reserve the commando unit to go down the worst parts of the valley. Again, rightfully so, and that's exactly where we wanted to be. But you know, we did those valley clearing operations.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  You know, if they teed it up for us and they teed it up for us, right, then, then they put us right in the, in the, in the thickest, uh, in the thick of things. And we got to do a lot of good work. Um, that there's, there's a couple of really cool stories that, that actually come from that particular uh, mission. That deployment, we were the, and I don't, I don't know who keeps track of these stats. I remember them telling me, but you know, adding up our, you know, the, the various kills you get as an ODA. They, and they, you know, they, uh, they give you your cast, you know, kills and your small arms kills. And, you know, we were up in the, you know, high couple hundreds.

• 40:58Speaker 04

  And, uh, and they said that we, uh, we were the, you know, the, the leading ODA in country, uh, in kills, which really wouldn't have been hard. It's not, and although we were a really good ODA, it's not because we were amazing. We, we thought we were, um, but they put us, they put us in a good area with the commandos. So we, we, we operated in, in all of the east into KL. Um, I used to be able to tell you what into KLS did for, I could probably get most of the, uh, most of the acronyms.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  And it was just a hotspot at that time. So we, we had the, we had the, the, the right partner for us and, and the hottest, uh, area of the country.

• 41:37Speaker 04

  One mission was a, uh, a fair, you're not, it was a great mission, but it's not necessarily the, the one you want to get woken up for. Yeah. I told you that battalion commander was, was a great dude. He calls our, our team leader and our team sergeant into the office. He was like, hey, um, I need you guys. And, uh, and I guess he's, he's, he's teared up. You know, asking for this help, you know, my, my team sergeant's like, uh, my team sergeant, Rick Spear. He goes, what do you need? You know, he's always given us aircraft. He's always been real, real good to us. He goes, what, what, you know, what's wrong, boss? He goes, uh, my, my, my boys are hemmed up. My boys are hemmed up in a bad way.

• 42:16Speaker 04

  You know, we got, uh, you know, we got double digits dead and, and double digits wounded. Uh, and those numbers are climbing. If we don't, if we don't get someone there like right now. And, uh, came back, got the ODA, said, hey, the, you know, blades are spinning. We, we got to get there.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  We, uh, if I remember right, this is called Operation Bulldog Bite. We were going to insert to the south of their location because they were still in, in a firefight. So they didn't want us to, to insert there. We're going to insert south their location. And the Rangers were coming in, we're going to insert to the north and we were going to, and we were basically, it was really going to, we were supposed to meet them there together, but everyone, everyone knew it was going to be a race to, to try to get to them first and, and, and, uh,

• 43:06Speaker 04

  and help those guys out. Well, when we inserted, the Ranger, uh, 47 had mechanical failures. And they, and they didn't insert. So it was, it, it was just us. When we got there, we got there right as, uh, first light, um, was there. Uh, the A's, we, we got there a little bit later. We were supposed to insert in darkness. It was just first light. AC 130 got there early to try to, uh, uh, make sure that everything was going to be kosher for us. And as soon as AC 130 got on station, it started lighting off and it didn't stop shooting. It, it was shooting while we landed and when they, and when the, and, and daylight, when the 47s took off, it was still firing.

• 43:50Speaker 04

  Um, and, and I remember looking at one of our guys and like, isn't that weird? He's like, what's that? He's like, I've never seen an AC 130 in the daylight. He's like, yeah, that is, that is kind of weird. Um, come to find out, uh, and heck, one of you guys may know, but it had to go up to like two or three star level approval to keep, to keep Spectre flying, uh, daylight that low.

• 44:16Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 04

  Agent targets.

• 44:18Jack Murphy?

  I, I was going to, I, I, I was going to say that almost, almost always, uh, AC, uh, Spectre would be like denied daylight ops. Because it flies so low, you can see it and they were worried that would present a target for manned portables and stuff. But to have a, a AC 130 during the day is exceptionally rare. And like, and like you said, probably had to be elevated because the, the in-country commanders, like the air force, they, they did not allow that at all.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. I'm, I'm telling you, it was a weird sight seeing it, you know, uh, yeah. You know, you, you get to hear it a lot. You know, it's up there, you know, on, you know, on multiple, multiple nighttime operations. But when you actually see it during the day, it just, it just stuck out. Like, man, that's really weird. Um, and, and we confirmed, you know, obviously that, you know, it got told to us that they had to get special approval to, to stay on station. And it took us, and of course we get, we get, uh, inserted a little, uh, a little bit,

• 45:22Speaker 04

  a little bit further than we wanted to be inserted. And so it's going to take even longer. So it's going to take all day for us to get up there.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  We get into, you know, we, there's a couple of villages between, uh, us and, and then we get into a little bit of contact. But the right call was made, like, you know, this, you know, engaging, killing the enemy right now isn't really our, our mission. Our mission is to, to get these guys as fast as we can. And, um, again, I'm, I'm the, I'm the only combo guy, uh, on, on this mission. I was the only comma guy for them, for the most part during that deployment.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  And as we're traveling at night, we know we should be getting close to these guys. Uh, and it goes back to, again, I feel like I'm in the Q course, like at the times you feel like the Q course is so basic and things they tell you in the Q course. They do, they, they come back, um, to, to, to ring true in operations. And I remember an SUT being said, uh, being told that the most, and then let me know if, if you remember this, you know, especially in small unit tactics. What is the most dangerous part of, of any mission? When, when you leave, when you leave and come back from the wire, you want to take a guess at it?

• 46:38Jack Murphy?

  I mean, oftentimes it's right as you clear the objective, right? Cause everyone's tired and you're chilling on security.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  What the seven dash, the seven dash eight answer for that will be re-entry of friendly lines.

• 46:52Jack Murphy?

  Oh geez. Yeah. Yeah.

• 46:53Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Jack Murphy?

  So you're, yeah, you're linking up with friendly forces.

• 46:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. Re-entry of, of friendly lines. And I always thought that was, uh, you know, uh, a little bit, uh, a little bit over the top. Like, don't you think the most dangerous thing is, you know, getting out here and, you know, and, and get it on an ambush line and mix it up with the enemy. Um, but here I am at 2:00 AM in Afghanistan and there is this, you know, there's these young 11 bravos that, you know, that are bearing their brothers and watching their other brothers maybe, you know, slowly bleed out. And there's these guys trumping through the woods, trying to link up with them. And I cannot raise them on the radio.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  And, and I was walking point at the time too, going, well, this is about fitting. You know, it's my, it's my fault, I guess, why we can't make commo. So I guess I should be eating these rounds.

• 47:50Speaker 04

  I, I did everything that I was supposed to do before leaving, you know, I did, you know, I, I, you know, I got their fills, I got their frequencies. I, uh, I did radio checks with their guys from the ground. Why I couldn't make commo at that time is, is just, is the, is the bane of every Echo's existence. And, you know, when, when you needed commo the most, I couldn't make commo. And I just remember walking with my butthole pucker going, every step, I'm afraid these, you know, these, these bushes are going to light up.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  We never made comma, we never made, uh, uh, radio contact with them. And luckily for me, uh, they, you know, they, they, they, they heard things in the bushes. We let up them like, you know, they, they yelled from a distance, hey, who was there? We got, we got to, um, you know, speak English and they, they knew it was us. Uh, and they knew that there was an American force, uh, coming, you know, to link up with them. And luckily that got disseminated all the way to, to the outskirts. Um, but I'll, I'll never forget how, you know, um, just how, how dangerous, uh, that, something that, that really seems like the least amount of dangerous thing that you would do.

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Like, you know, there was really, there's no enemy at the time. Yeah. I, there's so much other dangerous stuff I've done in my, in my military career. Yet that to me, when I tell that story, I can still feel the, you know, the hair stick up the back of my neck, walking through those woods. You know, wait, waiting to get lit up.

• 49:22Jack Murphy?

  With a VS 17 panel.

• 49:24Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, but it's night, but it's nighttime, right? So yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 04

  It's, yeah, it's nighttime. I have nods. I, you know, I, I don't even know, you know, if they got nods or if, you know, if, if all their guys, you know, have nods or if they're still rocking seven deltas on a low loom night, you know, which makes them almost just as dangerous with them as, as without them.

• 49:46Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 49:48Speaker 04

  I'll, I'll, I'll tell you this, this war story real quick, how they even, how they, how they, I'll rewind it and tell you how they got into this position. And what'll blow your mind, what we talked about after we met up with them. So it's really a sad story about, uh, about the bureaucracy of our military and the inability for people to make decisions. This was one of their very last, um, valley clearing operations. It's, it, it had been a very quiet deployment for those guys and they just hadn't seen a lot of action. So they, you know, they, they started in my mind, a little bit to, to lose respect for the battlefield, you know?

• 50:31Speaker 04

  I mean, people don't understand, you know, there's a lot of lull to war. Yes, we lost a lot of guys in Afghanistan. There's plenty of guys who went and deployed and never fired their gun. And they never saw anything bad and they just, they woke up every day, went to bed every day and eventually went home. And it's not a sexy story to tell your friends, but that's the truth for really a, a lot of soldiers in Afghanistan.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  These guys hadn't seen much, much combat at all. Uh, they come across this, uh, this house and this house is completely full of IEDs, full of IEDs. And so the company commander says, hey, um, we're not going to touch this stuff. There's way too much, none of it, I don't feel we're, that we're competent enough to, to move this stuff where we should anyway. I'm just going to call a strike on this house.

• 51:29Speaker 04

  So they get into a long haul and they start the process of trying to get someone to authorize dropping on this house. No one wants to make the call. The, you know, the battalion commander doesn't want to make the call, the brigade commander. And in fact, it's probably worse than that. Not to drug out the story, but the, you know, the O P S O didn't want to make the call, who eventually made it to the XO and eventually made it to the battalion commander. Like all of these thresholds and levels and everyone just passing the buck up, passing the buck up, passing the buck up. Well, they've been here for like four hours, just waiting for someone to give them any sort of guidance of what, of what they should do. Well, it's human nature. I'd probably do it

• 52:13Speaker 04

  too. But what does Joe do after four hours of being in the hot sun after not seeing any app? Joe does what Joe does. And, and I say that, like I said, I, I'm not a robot. I, I, I do the same things. And it allowed me to get up within very close proximities and, and lob a volley of RPGs and, and, and, uh, and machine gun fire and just absolutely lay waste to these guys. And they really didn't have a, a, a solid fighting chance at it. They, they overwhelmed them pretty quick and hurt them pretty bad. Uh, and you know, and that's when we got the call.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  So the fact that at the end of the day, it was just indecision on anyone wanting, and of course, as you can, uh, it's collateral damage is the reason they don't want to, um,

• 53:07Jack Murphy?

  Destroy a building.

• 53:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, destroy, yeah, destroy that building or, and there was another building close, yeah, fairly close to it. So they were concerned about that building. Rather than being concerned for the safety and well being of our soldiers, they cared more about mud buildings. And we sent guys on the body bags for it. It'll always be wrong. Um, and that's how, so that's, that's how we got there. Now I'll get, now we'll fast forward. We're here, we're talking to these guys. Um, the, uh, we're gonna go, uh, you know, we're gonna go up and, and get a little bit of shut eye because we're, they're gonna go come pick them up in daylight the next day. And so we tell them, and of course they're still in the, they're in the valley, like this house is, is in the valley.

• 53:53Speaker 04

  Um, they're still in this house or in this compound. And we said, hey, we're gonna go up to that high ground over there and, and get the tactical advantage. And I suggest you guys come with us. And, uh, and even then they're like, no, like you guys got it up there. Like you guys can protect us from up there, right? And like, kind of like, I'm like, what would be, what would be a better bet would just to be up there with us? Like that's, that's where you want to be, not, not down here in this valley. But, um, but yeah, I'm not gonna be too hard on them. You know, I mean, obviously they're, they, they were dealing with a lot, beat down pretty hard.

• 54:36Speaker 04

  Um, and maybe they just needed him. They're more than willing to have someone come save him and help him out. But that's, that, that, and I'll, I'll tell you one more after this, but you know, we'll let you guys ask questions or, or talk about it a little more. That, that was one of our better missions. But I don't mean that. And the guys lost their lives. Yeah. Sure. Trying to think of a, a good word to use where I say, you know, better missions.

• 55:01Jack Murphy?

  It was one of the more significant actions and, and you guys went in there and helped out fellow American soldiers. That makes it, makes it meaningful.

• 55:09Speaker 04

  That's right. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the feeling, it's only happened probably two more times in my career. Um, like, you know, to, to get there and face to face and strangers, just absolute strangers, look at you and want to hug you because you, because you showed up and they, and they, you know, they needed someone with guns to show up. And you know, they, they're just, you know, they, they were sitting there waiting, waiting to die. And we're, I mean, if they knew us, we were as big as jackasses as, as, as anyone else, you know, like we're, we're, uh, we're, you know, we're definitely not at times to be put up on a pedestal. But at the end

• 55:50Speaker 04

  of the day, hey, will the Greenberrys show up and the guys with beards show up? Like you're expected, you know, to, to, to, to, to fill that role. We were more than happy to fill that role for them. And we were more than happy to, to protect those guys and get those guys out of there.

• 56:06Jack Murphy?

  Out of curiosity, do you remember the size of that, that element that you guys went in to relieve or to salvage?

• 56:15Speaker 04

  I, I want to say in, in the, in the twenties.

• 56:19Jack Murphy?

  And then do you, do you recall like what the, uh, was it, was it a captain? Was it like a, a, a P L or a second or a lieutenant?

• 56:29Speaker 04

  I know. I'd, I'd have to, we, there's, there's, I don't know if, if you guys have one like this. I would need a lifeline. And our medic, Mark De Mayo remembers everything.

• 56:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  Everything. I could call Mark right now. He'd tell you exactly how many guys are there, the rake of that dude and, and the area with, we were operating in.

• 56:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. I'm just curious if like the, the officer, like the, the, the ground force commander was the one making the call not to like evac with you guys up the, up the hill? Or if, if he was getting from higher that no, like stay in place until we resolve what we're gonna do with this, these IEDs?

• 57:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. I just, I just remember that being, you know, the, the answer to the, to the conversation. Obviously the, the, the team sergeant had that, uh, had that conversation with whoever's in charge. And, and being the combo guy was probably right next to the commander sitting up sit reps.

• 57:25Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 57:25Jack Murphy?

  And, and so was there something else with that? You want to talk about how that operation wound down? Or, uh, if it sounded like maybe there was something else you wanted to say about it?

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Um, no, not about that one. I'll, I'll talk about one more. That's, you know, that's kind of similar happened the same trip. But I'll tell you one of the weirdest things. Um, uh, one of the weirdest things that ever happened was at the end of that operation. And by the time we actually got helos in there is actually, it was actually at nighttime. So we actually stayed, you know, all day during the day, got all the wounded out. Um, and whoever could walk to this next LZ, we were all gonna walk that, to, to that, uh, HLZ and get out of there with a, under, with a 47. So it's nighttime. Uh, we're, we're in PZ posture and our interpreter comes up to me

• 58:18Speaker 04

  and goes, hey, uh, one of the guys found a goat and, um, he, he really wants to keep it. Um, and my initial reaction was like, no, you can't bring a goat on a 47. Uh, but you know, I don't know. Another partner was like, you know what? Sure. Yeah. He can have the goat. So I, for whatever reason, authorized this guy to have a goat on the 47. And, um, and he's just holding this goat the whole time. He's holding it. And we're, we're on this, um, like steep ledge. So here on this, the top of this plateau is where it's gonna land. And we're at the very edge of,

• 59:01Speaker 04

  of this really steep ledge. So when the 47 comes in, tailgate this way, um, I look at him and I told interpreter, hey, hold on to that goat tight. We're, we're, we're getting ready to go. And, um, and I'm just watching him. Uh, I'm just watching with nods and it looks like he does this and then just throws the goat off, off the ledge to, to its little goat death. And I'm like, those, they're so weird. You know, Afghans just do weird things, you know? Just shaking my head like, I thought you wanted that goat. Why would you throw that goat off? And so this, this, this question

• 59:44Speaker 04

  is, is boggling my, boggling my mind the whole ride over. So as soon as the wheels land down and, and, uh, in Jalalabad, and we get away from the rotor wash, I go grab the interpreter. I'm like, hey, why did he kill? Why did he kill that goat? I thought he wanted that goat. And, uh, he said, and apparently he says the, uh, the 47 scared the goat and the goat lock back legs launched off of his chest and he tried to grab it. But from my angle, it looked like he threw the, he threw the goat off. So the poor goat jumped to its death, but it was the weirdest thing in the

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  world to witness not, not knowing what's going on. And I really feel like that sums up my experience.

• 1:00:33Jack Murphy?

  I mean, honestly, you're lucky it was just one goat because that could have started, if there had been like a flock or herd of goats out there, whatever it is, like everybody would have wanted a goat and you would have had a 47 full goat shed.

• 1:00:48Speaker 04

  Horrible, a horrible precedence, uh, of them basically probably stealing goats and taking them on the 47. And I'm sure, I'm sure that would have been a, uh, a theater wide email at, at some point.

• 1:01:00Jack Murphy?

  Pretty soon you're up to donkeys.

• 1:01:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. You would, you would have been the, the.

• 1:01:03Jack Murphy?

  Dr. Doolittle of Afghanistan, uh, shepherding goats around on forty sevens.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  The, uh, that, that same trip, um,

• 1:01:16Speaker 04

  I'm into, I'm in civilian clothes. I'm getting ready to go on the ring route and I have to go down to Bagram.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  I don't even, either for op fund or, or, or for crypto. There, there's some reason I had to go down to Bagram. So I'm in Jalabad, I'm in Jabad, waiting for the ring flight. And this like, uh, this E5 or E6 guy comes up to me and goes, uh, um, and me, there's another guy with me on my team. Can't remember who was, who was with me.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  But like somebody goes, hey, uh, you guys, special forces? And I mean, I'm wearing civilian clothes. I mean, could have been a contractor, but you know, lucky guess. I'm like, uh, yeah, we're special forces. And he's like, hey, I, I, I've been looking for you guys. I've been, I've been trying to call you guys, been trying to email you guys. I'm really trying to get ahold of you guys. Really glad I got to see you. And I'm thinking, what, what email are you using?

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  Like this, this whole thing's starting out weird already. And then he gets like, you know, you know, real emotional and he's like, hey, man, I'm, we're out at Khatnajil. He goes, it's, uh, it's near the next province over. It's a really small base. He goes, we're just waiting to die. He goes, we, there's nothing we can do about it. We are just waiting to die. I, you know, I have to sit there and tell my guys that they're going to be okay. You know, help is coming. You know, it's not, it's, it's not that bad when I know it's that bad. And I'm like, man, that is, that was a horrible story. Um, I was like, look, get, give, give me a, give me your red line number and, um, we'll, uh, we'll see what we can do. Okay?

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  And he was like, all right. And so he leaves. I canceled my ring flight trip and I go back to, to the, uh, to the team house. You know, and I go to the, you know, the team leader and team sergeant, like, hey, like, you know, tell them the same story. I was like, you mind if I look into this? And like, no, yeah, it sounds, sounds like something you should look into. And again, that's what's really cool. And I'll always miss about, you know, being on, being a Green Bray. Is, you know, the, the, the autonomy to do whatever you want. It's, it's a lot of work, unfortunately, to collect your own intel. And to, you know, create your own con ops, you know, execute your own missions with only 12 guys in a partner force. But it's, but it's, but it's all worth it at times when you get to, to, to do things like this.

• 1:03:45Speaker 04

  And so I call, I call the guys up, uh, I talked to their first sergeant. It's a company sized element out there, Khatnajil. As, and, uh, without trying to throw that guy under the bus, trying to feel out what's going on. And the first sergeant's like, yeah, it's pretty bad out here. If, can, can you guys come out here? And I was like, okay, I, I will, we'll come out and look. And, um, so me and my team sergeant get on a, a Blackhawk and we, we fly out there to Khatnajil to see what's going on. And it's a, gosh, I wish I could remember the state. I want to say it's like an Illinois National Guard unit, um, out there. And, uh, they start telling me everything that's wrong. And I remember thinking to myself,

• 1:04:23Speaker 04

  uh, they're, they're screwing this up somehow. Like they're, you know, they're, they're, they're being cowards. They're, you know, this is what happens. You're not aggressive towards enemy and, uh, could, you know, I, obviously I was like deep in the back of my, in my mind, but you know, I, I thought it. And so I'm listing these guys' story. And I'm, and so I'm like, so that's, so you know the, you know, the point of origin, where it's always coming from? They're like, well, there, there's only three points of origin. I said, all right, we'll send out an SR team and set up on, uh, on all three ports, ports of origin. There's, there's nine, 10, 12 guys. I know you're a company, but that's, that's easily doable. They're like, can't do that.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  We can't go out, and I'm, I'm going to screw up the number a little bit, but, um, we can't go out with less than 12 people on a patrol. He goes, and so with 12 people on a patrol, if I'm to go put three people, so, you know, on, on those points of origin, three teams of those points of origin, that's 36 people right there. That already puts us at, you know, at, at full strength for, for running operations. Cause that means half the guys are sleeping while the other half are out. And as soon as those guys come back, those guys go to, go, go out on operations. And the only thing we've done is run 24 hour ops on three different, three different point of origins.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  And we're not even, we're not even living. We're not doing, like, we're not, like, you can't run operations like that.

• 1:05:50Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 1:05:51Speaker 04

  I'm like, I was like 12 guys to leave. These points of, these, these poos, if you will, are like, 1,200 meters away. Like they're not that far. Like you have to, 12 guys to go a click outside the wire? He's like, that's, absolutely. Um, and just, they couldn't, they couldn't drive, they couldn't drive down to the next village, which was only four, 500 meters out, outside their gate, uh, without getting completely riddled and, and, and have to turn back around. Uh, they couldn't get air support. They asked for guys to do valley clearing operations. Uh, and just the more, um, you know, I sat there with those guys, the more,

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  uh, the, the first sergeant, again, he was a National Guard infantry first sergeant. He was a good dude. He had, he was, you know, he was just a solid guy. He had a lot of answers and a lot of things he tried. But at the day, they just weren't capable of, of solving this problem. And so we, uh, we went back and we, and we did something that we rarely, rarely do. Um, we put the, the, uh, I'm going to forget words now, but the Kandak was broken up into three elements.

• 1:07:04Speaker 04

  Like it, Kandak is already a battalion. Um, so whatever, uh, companies, yeah, sorry, companies. So they're broken up into three companies and we were going to bring two companies of commandos to, to, to clear this valley. Which is, which, which we've never done because, you know, they're on a red, orange and green training cycle. So they're always in thirds. So to bring two companies forward was, was a big deal.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  The SOTF headquarters gave us a bunch of pushback and they're like, I don't know what you guys are talking about. We've asked, you know, we've, we've put singing birds around there. We've asked our, our human enters, like, we're not getting anything in, in that area. Like they're asking us to please go do something else. And they're like, no, we've been on the ground. These guys are hurting. Like this valley needs to be cleared.

• 1:07:55Speaker 04

  We, we set off for what we called Operation Rockstar. That was back in the day when ODAs could still name their own naming conventions. Um, before people probably, uh, took, uh, took some, some, some free speech liberties within their operations.

• 1:08:12Jack Murphy?

  Operation Penthouse, you know, get approved. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and I love it. And everyone got behind it. Like all the, uh, the, the aviation support called all the HLZs like Ringo and, and like all, and, uh, and, and, you know, HLZ Bon Jovi and everything. It was, um, we inserted that night and the helos, it was, it was a long valley.

• 1:08:40Speaker 04

  And the, the, uh, the cop was at the very base of the valley. So we were going to insert at the very northern part and then kind of like a hammer and anvil operation. So, so the, so the base only had to basically be the anvil of it. We would push them all down, uh, all down the valley. Um, or at least contain them in the valley. We, we get, uh, we come into fire as heavy fire as soon as, as soon as we, as soon as we land. And, uh, and we're thinking, and the SOTF didn't even want us.

• 1:09:13Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:09:13Speaker 04

  You know, here are taking massive, you know, uh, RPK fire from PKM fire from the, from the mountainsides. And you told us there was no one here. That was just a bunch, you know, a couple, uh, basically a couple of low level crooks, lobbing RPGs in the base every now and again. Um, the, our team leader immediately called, uh, called CAS. Um, that's a whole nother story, but I'll touch it on it for just a second. At the time, you had to have battalion level approval to call CAS. Um, we had a great team leader who knew the rules and there is a caveat to that.

• 1:09:53Speaker 04

  Um, during the infill of an operation, when they know you're vulnerable, you do not have to call battalion for approval. And you could immediately call CAS from the ground. That's a, that's exactly what he did. If he would have done that, we'd have had a bunch of shot up birds that, uh, that night. So he does that. Uh, we quell, we quell that. Um, there's just these pockets as, as we move, pockets and pockets and pockets. And, uh, most of them were, were really from, from the, uh, the sides of the mountain. So it wasn't a whole lot of like, uh, close, you know, personal type combat. But the, the type of combat that is, it's great and it's great for numbers. Cause really,

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  just by you being in the valley is what stirs them up, you know, on, on these, on these mountain sides. And then just air support comes in and, and crushes them.

• 1:10:43Speaker 04

  Well, the very first one that we called air support on was way up there and I wasn't on it, but we, we asked a, a, a couple of guys to go up there and do a BDA on, uh, on that. It took them hours to crawl up this mountain to get to that BDA site. But when they did, what we found were guys in ACUs and they were foreign fighters.

• 1:11:05Jack Murphy?

  Holy shit.

• 1:11:06Speaker 04

  And we found them all through the valley. Long story short, by the time we get done with this valley and get home, the guys who didn't want us even going on the mission, were giving us all sorts of kudos and praises for one of the, for the, you know, the, the biggest noble operations, you know, that, that we took on, they didn't even want us to go.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Our, our captain, as soon as we get home, gets home, uh, gets, gets, um, uh, where I want to like, um, temporarily, uh, fired, or we'll see if he's fired. Because the C-just sort of commander wanted him on his, on, on the carpet like now. Because he heard that he didn't use the right protocol for calling in CAS. And he called in CAS without a battalion level approval. And he sat there in Bagram for like a week.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  And then he sees the C-just sort of commander, tells the story and goes, oh, I didn't know it was during infill. You're good. And, and sends them back to the team. Uh, while fortunately for us, while we're running amok for another solid week with, without our team leader. Actually had, going on, I'm going on some great missions. But they didn't deserve that. And that, and again, that's, that, that deployment was really like one of the, the spur, you know, the moments that truly spurred me to say, as, and as great as that deployment was, like, you know, we got to save like those guys and we got back to their camp. They all gave us the biggest hug and they're like, man, thank you for saving our lives. And we don't think we, we were going home without you.

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  Uh, like you really feel like you, you, you did something worthwhile. But there was a reoccurring theme, that deployment, which was this. Con ops had gotten crazy to 20 and 30 pages.

• 1:13:03Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:03Speaker 04

  It was getting increasingly harder to fight. You feel like you're fighting the enemy and the SOTF and C-just SOTF trying to get out the door. If the enemy could move, as long as the enemy moved every night, then he was moving faster than, than, than we could keep up with. Because that con op that was approved was, was for this location. Um, it got, it got really disheartening.

• 1:13:27Jack Murphy?

  I mean, what a, what a ridiculous, what a, what a ridiculous situation that you have soldiers on the ground there who are telling you, hey, we're getting hit every night, but higher is saying, well, we don't have it on Sigent, so I guess it's not happening.

• 1:13:41Speaker 04

  It, the, the whole thing at a, um, at a battalion and, and higher level, you know, not, not just at, at, within SF and within the military, really just kind of to, started to disgust me. You know, and if we weren't there with such a solid team of good dudes who were just willing to do whatever it took to get out the wire. They really did have a good attitude, generally speaking, like, okay, fine. You want 20 pages? I'll make you, I'll get, if that's what it takes to get out the wire, I'll give you 20 pages. You want 30 pages? Then we'll get really efficient at writing 30 pages and we'll get out the wire. Um, they were, you know, they were just a really good team when it came to that, that really could have crushed, you know, uh, other teams and did, and it did. It did crush.

• 1:14:26Jack Murphy?

  What year was this? Do you remember roughly?

• 1:14:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh nine.

• 1:14:31Jack Murphy?

  Oh nine?

• 1:14:32Jack Murphy?

  This is about McChrystal years.

• 1:14:35Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, because I remember talking to, um,

• 1:14:38Speaker 04

  Ten, or ten, 2009, 2010.

• 1:14:40Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I, yeah, I remember talking to, uh, an SF soldier. Sometime in like in the oh eight to oh nine timeframe. And he said that if they were on target and they fired their weapon, there would be a fif, they had to fill out a 15 six dash six. Like that, that it just got so ridiculous for a while.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and I don't, I don't mind if the war warrants that. If we're making results and we just don't need American cowboys, you know, go, going on target just to spike the football every night.

• 1:15:16Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:15:16Speaker 04

  I, I did that, you know, and as, and as a younger soldier, that's, you know, I, I would, I would have never said that. And I'd be like, as long as we're here, we need to be out on target. Um, yeah, I did get a little bit older and wiser, but we weren't there yet. And I think the biggest problem that I saw was

• 1:15:37Speaker 04

  ground guys were reporting ground truth. And I saw it firsthand that those reports, we had these like green, yellow and red reports about how they're doing planning wise, how they're doing logistically, how they're, how, you know, uh, how their, uh, how their training is going. And we generally gave them yellows and reds across the board. Yet when you see a, a polished product later up in a C-just SOTF level, looking like it's, you know, like everything's rosy. Well, that's not what we said.

• 1:16:07Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, right. It, it's always, and, and not to disparage military intelligence, because, because there are a lot of two shops or a lot of human, like there's a lot of good work in the intel, but there's also a lot of bureaucracy, bureaucracy there. Where when guys like, like you were talking about these guys, but when guys are on the ground are reporting what's going on. And then you have, you know, two shops, you know, intel shops going, no, we don't have any intelligence and support sets. Like, well, there's your fucking intelligence. Like, why do you think your product supersedes what these guys on the ground are telling you?

• 1:16:46Speaker 04

  Hey, and that's, that's part of unit history right there. Like we, we had, we've, there's been a disconnect for a while. You can go all the way back to, oh, I'll get close, but, um, Operation Anaconda in 2003? Someone help me out on that, but it's got to be close to that. Early, or, or, early war, where, you know, these ground units are, are saying, hey, there's a major, a collection of enemy, uh, personnel in this area. And, and higher ups going, no, we sent over AS, you know, uh, the ISR over there, didn't see anything. And I go, no, they're there and saying, no, we sent ISR over again, there's nothing there.

• 1:17:29Speaker 04

  And then it, it, you know, it took, you know, unit AFO troops to go, to go up there in twos and threes. And live on the side of a mountain for a few days and go, holy crap, this place is crawling with people. And, and even then, like them kind of be like, well, we don't really see it on, on ISR. That's one of the reasons Operation Anaconda was such a, a debacle.

• 1:17:53Speaker 04

  Reliant on, on, on ISR.

• 1:17:55Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  And not got ground.

• 1:17:57Jack Murphy?

  We, uh, we jumped forward a little bit. Um, you had talked about that before this deployment, you had also, you'd gone to selection beforehand. Can you talk to us a little bit about, um, when the idea of going to trying out for the unit came about into your mind? And, and then like going to selection?

• 1:18:14Speaker 04

  Uh, no, because I failed selection the first time. I don't talk about my failures.

• 1:18:21Speaker 04

  Uh, the, uh, go, going to selection, the, uh, the, the first time.

• 1:18:30Speaker 04

  Goes, goes back to the, um, you know, the adage of I, I didn't want to, I, I, I didn't want to be done with my military career. Not that I was thinking of retiring or being done at, at any time real soon at that point. But at, at this point in my career, I felt like, you know, I went into the military, you know, check. I, you know, I became a Green Beret because, you know, you know, being in the regular military was, wasn't enough. And then I was like, hey, there's a small group of guys within SF that, that, that I thought were even better. And, and going to a dive team, check, like, you know, I, I can, I continued to, to push myself and, and, you know, and, and, and make it. Uh, you know, I wanted to go to war real bad.

• 1:19:12Speaker 04

  I went to war, to war several times and I felt like I was really good at it, you know, uh, you know, check. Like I'm, I'm, I'm continuing to get, to look for challenges, meet them. And it, and, you know, there's a, a couple of things going on. One, I, I wanted to see how, how far I could go. Um, I didn't think I was the best guy on my team. And that's why like, you know, I, I needed to go to selection because I got a, because I'm, you can't, you can't soar with, with eagles when you're hanging around buzzards. Like it was, it was, it was nothing like that. And in fact, I was probably the third best guy on my team. Um, I wasn't even the best guy on my ODA. Uh, and, but I was the only guy that went to selection.

• 1:19:55Speaker 04

  And I, I did, I'd never told anyone this, but I did get tired of hearing a lot of people. Train up for selection and you know, going to sniper school, you know, and going to this school and you know, uh, like, um, and always like, uh, collecting this, this, this perfect packet to go to selection with, cause they're, cause they're going to go to CAG, but they, they forgot the most important part of the process, which was going to selection. Um, and so it's had a lot of people talk about it, but they never do it. And, um, uh, so there's a lot of, and, and I, I knew even before that deployment handwriting was on

• 1:20:39Speaker 04

  the wall, deployments are going to go away. Iraq was already starting to go away at that time. You know, there were rumors of, you know, of, of Afghanistan combat operations, uh, beginning to get questioned and, and put into halt. And I wasn't done deploying. And I knew I could go to one other place and, and hopefully, you know, continue to deploy and maybe even deploy the rest of my career. So you kind of take that, that whole, you know, that whole mound of evidence and that's what, that's what drove me to go to selection.

• 1:21:09Jack Murphy?

  So took, uh, two shots, which is not abnormal at, at all.

• 1:21:15Speaker 04

  Right. And in fact, I don't like, I like calling the first one a recce. So the first one, the first one was a recce. Um, and I made it really far. Like I made it, uh, like the only thing I didn't do was the 40 miler. And it was definitely one of those things where you show up, you know, and even though, um, you know, a, as an O D A, you don't have this like, yeah, I never felt this weird, uh, oh, we're just 20th group, you know, like our, our O D As always thought, you know, had a, had, had nothing but, uh, uh, knew, knew they were good. And, and if you questioned it, we're more than willing to prove it to you. So I never really had this in, in my career, this, oh, I'm just 20th group, um, until I showed up to, to selection. And I don't know, it was just a bunch of really

• 1:21:58Speaker 04

  big guys and, uh, you know, guys telling all these crazy stories and like, I don't know, maybe, you know, may, maybe I am out of, out of my league a little bit. And then just slowly, you know, the, the, the days go by and the days go by and the class gets smaller and smaller and, and, and you're still here and, and all those big loud mouth guys, uh, you know, didn't, didn't make time standard this day and that day. And, and really by, by the end of it, you're, it's, um, probably a dramatic way to say it, but you kind of know, you know, how in 300, like they get to the, the end of it and like, we actually might win this thing, you know, they kind of thought it was a suicide mission and then they think they, they actually could pull it off. Um, it's kind of like how I started the field. Like actually I, you know, I'm looking at everyone around me and I'm

• 1:22:43Speaker 04

  just as good as, as, as anyone here. Um, I can, I can make this thing. Um, and as soon as I, about as the time I started feeling like that, uh, I got cut. Um, and, uh, which was the very end of it. And I remember going to the, um,

• 1:23:02Speaker 04

  I won't talk about the, uh,

• 1:23:06Speaker 04

  we'll, we'll just, I got, we'll just say this, I got interviewed at, at, at the end and, uh, the, the interviewer was like, um,

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  uh, you know, I'm just, just not gonna, not, not gonna talk about it.

• 1:23:17Jack Murphy?

  Did, did you, did you get good feedback as in terms of what you could improve if you came back?

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:23:26Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:23:27Speaker 04

  Uh, I, I, I'll, I'll try, I, I do, I don't mind coming on podcasts and I don't mind, you know, uh, you know, talk about the unit and say, you know, uh, selection, you know, selection is sacred.

• 1:23:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, we get it.

• 1:23:40Speaker 04

  There's, and there's some things I will talk about. Um, but yeah, I, I was, yeah, I was able to talk to him at the end. He did ask me some questions. Um, I'm afraid if I go into it, I, I'll end up, you know, giving someone some answers.

• 1:23:52Jack Murphy?

  But, but they, but they did welcome you to come back again, try out again.

• 1:23:56Speaker 04

  Yes. He, he, he asked, he asked me how I did. I, I told him I thought I did. Um, I, I thought I did pretty well. And then he, he laughed at me because he said, well, you're, you're sitting here, you must not have done that well. And I was like, ouch.

• 1:24:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Speaker 04

  That's, this is pretty much true. We, we had a, uh, we had a lively conversation after that and, uh, I must've said something right to, uh, to let him have pity on me and, uh, bring me back for a second try.

• 1:24:26Speaker 04

  And so, uh, I, I went, went deployed, uh, came, came back, came back again and was, uh, was, was just, and I truly mean this, I got, I'm just lucky enough to, to, to get through the process. Yes, I trained for it. A lot of guys did, you know, I was, I was in the top third, you know, of the class whenever we did anything, you know, I mean, I know physically I deserved to be there. So, you know, why do I feel lucky? Because there are guys that were way ahead of me and always ahead of me and, and didn't make it. Um, you know, it's just, it's a weird, it's, it's a weird process that has, that

• 1:25:07Speaker 04

  has a, a weird way of working, uh, of working things out. Um, there's, there's a saying that didn't make a whole lot of sense at the beginning and, and, uh, they'd say, hey, we're not looking for the best guy, we're looking for the right guy. And, uh, I remember thinking to myself, wouldn't the best guy be the right guy? Kind of doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Um, and again, uh, just the, the longer I was there, the, the truer that, that, uh, that saying, uh, rang out was it's, it's not the best guy, it's the right guy. So I was just, again, lucky enough to be the right guy.

• 1:25:41Jack Murphy?

  So you get picked up and then, uh, off to O T C. And I mean, what, what was that experience like for you? I mean, did you, you enjoy, uh, the, the training?

• 1:25:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'll, I'll tell you, um, I will tell you this about selection, it'll, cause it'll, it'll roll into, into O T C as well.

• 1:25:59Speaker 04

  Selection bar none, I don't care where you've been, what you've done is the most professional thing you will ever witness. And, and that, you know, I, I wish I could kind of go into detail and tell you like what, you know, how professional it is and how it'll blow your mind. Um, but I'll just leave it at that. It is, it is the most professional thing you'll, you'll ever experience. Now, I don't know if you ever, you know, ever had this experience where you go to a, a military school and things are, they're, they're run okay, but they're a little, little discombobulated and you know, it makes you feel at one point like, is this your guys' first time ever running this course?

• 1:26:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Are you just making this up as you go along? Yeah.

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. You gotta have this figured out by now. That happens zero times ever in West Virginia. It is the most professional thing you will ever, it's so professional. We've had guys quit before because they saw the level of professionalism in a course and just said, I'm not that professional. I, I can't be this professional and I can't meet this standard and so, and select themselves off, off the professionalism of it. So, um, I'll absolutely say that, uh, they, you know, the, uh, the, the unit and selection that does, deserves that, uh, that credit, um, to be known for that. And, uh, O T C, um, was

• 1:27:24Speaker 04

  still professional. I say not as professionals, you know, they, um, it, uh, you, you messing up an, an O T C on a C Q B run and there will be a, you know, a large muscular man yelling at you from the catwalk, you know, let, letting you know how much you suck and how much you probably don't deserve to be here. And, uh, you know, it is, it is up to you to, to, to deal with that information and, uh, and, and react to, react accordingly. Um,

• 1:27:53Speaker 04

  the two things that, that they gave me, uh, were this, I felt challenged and I, I felt like the, um, you know, the, the, the skillset that, that I was acquiring and the resources required to, you know, needed to develop this type of skillset were, were finally there. Like, um, it just,

• 1:28:18Speaker 04

  it's, it's like, it's like being in, in tactical Disney world. I mean, just everything's at, at your fingertips. If you need it, you'll get it. Um, it's with, without a doubt, the most amazing place I've ever worked.

• 1:28:34Speaker 04

  And, and, and I almost feel bad sometimes telling people like how great I had it because even though special operations and, and as a whole, generally speaking, you know, have, have money and they have equipment, but very few people really know what it's like to never want for anything.

• 1:28:52Jack Murphy?

  So what, what was it like? What, what was it like when you graduated and showed up to your team and walk into their team room that first day?

• 1:29:00Speaker 04

  Um,

• 1:29:04Speaker 04

  I, I knew this. I knew when, um, when I graduated O T C, uh, it's one of the few times in life where I feel like I, um, I took a moment, you know, and thought to myself, hey, like remember this, like this will be, this, this may be the greatest accomplishment of your life. I know, you know, maybe, maybe that even sounds dramatic, but at least, at least I felt aware enough to know that this is something, you know, few people actually get to do. At the end of the day, if you don't make select, if, even if you make selection, but you don't make O T C, you did something great that still very few people do, but it's not, you don't feel good about not making it. Um, uh, and I, and I, but I knew

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  at that point, even if they fired me in six months, I was an operator and I, you know, and I did, you know,

• 1:29:56Jack Murphy?

  You did it. Yeah.

• 1:29:57Speaker 04

  You know, and I, I did this. I accomplished this. I was good enough. I, you know, and, and one of the very, uh, I'm in a part of one of the smallest brotherhoods and, and all of the military. And I definitely, I, I, uh, I, I enjoyed that moment. Um, and then of course, when, when the realization of, you know, getting into your team room and that what you thought was, was pretty good C Q B, um, the, uh, my, my first team leader did, who did not, um, hand out compliments, uh, ever to anyone, um, kind of let it slip that I graduated number one in C Q B, which I knew I, I knew I was doing pretty good

• 1:30:38Speaker 04

  at the, at the C Q B. But he was letting me know, he goes, uh, so you think, you think you're good just because you graduated number one in C Q B? Well, it's, it's not going to be fast enough here. And, uh, and I looked at him and I go,

• 1:30:52Speaker 04

  so I graduated number one in C Q B.

• 1:30:57Speaker 04

  I'm ever going like, no, that's, that's not what this is about. Forget that. But that's, that's, that's not a compliment. It's nothing. I heard it. I heard you. Yeah. That one is CQB.

• 1:31:11Jack Murphy?

  No big deal.

• 1:31:12Speaker 04

  But he was, yeah, but he was absolutely right. Man, you, you get over there and those, and they, and they'll tell you, this is usually a pretty similar experience. They'll go to the, the shoot house for the first, the first couple, you know, the first couple of days and at least the first day, the first couple of runs, they'll tell you, hey, just hang out in the back and don't try to shoot anything. And that's, and, and those, and I'll always remember those first few runs going, whoo, yeah, that's, that's gonna be tough to keep up with, you know. I, I didn't feel like I didn't belong, but I knew that I was about to get challenged again. And it, and it was just,

• 1:31:53Speaker 04

  it was just another good feeling, knowing that, because it happens sometimes in our careers in special operations where you make it to something and you're like, no, it's good. And it's, I mean, it's really good, but it's not exactly everything I thought it was gonna be. You know, you, you have those moments. And you know that the, the unit just never really gave me that moment. I was, yeah, it, it is what you think it is.

• 1:32:15Jack Murphy?

  It, it must be like, on one hand, as a new guy, a little intimidating, but at the same time, you're like, I'm with like, the absolute top notch guys. I mean, it must be awesome to be around that kind of talent.

• 1:32:25Speaker 04

  It, that particular team leader loved, you know, you know, loved his team to,

• 1:32:35Speaker 04

  to have a lot of confidence, but, but to, to back it up as well.

• 1:32:42Speaker 04

  And I remember, you know, my first deployment going over there with those guys, you know, still think, yeah, I have, have more than enough experience underneath my belt of combat experience. But there's always this, when you're on the white side, again, it's, it's kind of like National Guard and 20th Group. Like, you don't, like, you know, guys that went there, but like, once they go over there, they go into a black hole and you never talk to them again. Like, you have, you hear rumors of what goes on over there, but no one really knows. You hear that they're, you know, you hear their target sets are, are so much livelier. And, you know, when they go on

• 1:33:24Speaker 04

  target, you know, it's always, it's always, it's always a lively night. And you just hear these, these stories. And so, you know, I was a little bit, you know, didn't know what to think of the unknown, you know, on, on my first deployment. But I do remember, you know, being next to those guys and after, you know, running through the shoot, shoot house with them and, you know, watching them in mission planning and decision making and, and just how they carried themselves day in and day out and how well they knew their job. Like, I, I remember getting on a helicopter going, I'm good. Like, I'm with these guys. You know, I'm, I'm good. And, and feeling, still feeling like I can contribute with these guys, but still knowing, these guys, these, these guys

• 1:34:09Speaker 04

  are gonna take us home. And that's what they did. And man, that's what they did. Those, those, those guys were exactly who I thought they were, as soon as we got into combat. They were great. Just can't say enough good things about them.

• 1:34:22Jack Murphy?

  And, and so at this point, I mean, you're, you're off to the races. You did another, another eighth deployments to the Middle East. And I mean, what, what, what, I mean, I don't know what, what you're comfortable talking about. I mean, are there any particular operations that stand out in your mind or any particular experiences that you think are significant, either to you personally, or, or maybe to the history of, of special operations, frankly?

• 1:34:48Speaker 04

  I, I could have done without getting shot.

• 1:34:51Jack Murphy?

  I get it.

• 1:34:54Speaker 04

  Stands out. I was, I was running pretty clean there for, you know, probably going into almost double digit deployments. And, you know, everyone on my team had a Purple Heart. And, but then I, I do remember, I'll, you know, I'll say this about the night I got, I got shot. I, I was,

• 1:35:14Speaker 04

  I was getting more, more aggressive and more aggressive, you know, and things that, that I, I probably, I, I knew, they weren't like flagrant, but I knew that I probably shouldn't have been doing business that way and that there was probably a smarter way to do business. But, you know, it's not like I just turned into like an aggressive retard. Like, I just, I'd slowly continue to go down this, you know, this, this path and got away with it and then got away with it, you know. And even, you know, a couple of times, like, you know, got to kill, you know, some people that I, that I wouldn't have been in a good position to kill otherwise. And so it, you know, kind of reinforces that, hey, you know, just the most aggressive guy, the fastest guy

• 1:35:56Speaker 04

  wins and always wins. And that's just how it is. And that is true 99% of the times. And you, you, you play like that long enough, you, you will roll snake eyes.

• 1:36:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:10Speaker 04

  And, and, and, and I rolled snake eyes one night, way too close, way too far, you know, on squatter patrol, squatter control, you know, a click away out from the rest of the assault element, continuing to engage a guy, engage guys and get drawn further and further out. And even knowing that and being like, hey, we're, you know, there's, you know, we just got away with that last one. And there's, there's more people, you know, behind, you know, in this next group. I probably shouldn't go that far. And I should probably, you know, plus up another operator or

• 1:36:46Speaker 04

  two, you know, if, if we're gonna do that. And then just going, nah, we got this. And, and, and we did not. So I, I, I got shot. Our combo guy that was with us got shot. I, I got hit by a grenade about five seconds later after getting shot. Another round skipped off and shot my nods in half. So my panos were dangling on my face. Just shot up and in a, and in a really bad way and, and really lucky, lucky to get out of there. And, but we did. And it, it, it didn't,

• 1:37:31Speaker 04

  it didn't change me to, to, to being like hesitant or scared. I truly think it, it, it reset me to exactly where, where I needed to be.

• 1:37:43Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:37:44Speaker 04

  I, I don't think I would have ever operated scared. It's just not who I am. I, if, if I think I couldn't have got out of that, I'd, I'd have just medically retired at that point. I just, you know, that's just not how I'm cut. So I, I either just would have been like, well, I, I lost it and it's not for me. But, you know, the whole time that I was in rehab, I could not wait to get back on the battlefield. I couldn't wait. I know, it sounds maybe weird to some people, but I couldn't wait to kill someone again and to prove like, hey, that's not how my career ends. There's no way that, you know, I felt like my career would ended on a mistake. So I worked as hard as I possibly could to, to get back out there and then to, you know, I don't know, validate

• 1:38:29Speaker 04

  myself still. I don't, you know, the right way, way to kind of describe it. But that small reset, if I would have continued down that path, I would have died in Syria. One, 100%. That Syria was such a different, such a different game. You, you think you know IEDs, you know, in Afghanistan. You, you don't, you don't know what it's like until ISIS retreats from a village and leaves about 3,000 IEDs everywhere, on every road, on every courtyard, in the walls of houses,

• 1:39:06Speaker 04

  puts them on timers, puts them on IR trip devices. Just an absolute IED debacle. And, and they were more than, and they were smart. Like, they were, they were more than willing to, to use your grift, your aggressiveness against you and pull you into situations, only to, only to find out too late, yeah, we may have, that's, that's what they wanted us to do.

• 1:39:32Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:39:33Speaker 04

  ISIS really was a formidable enemy in, in some aspects. And in other aspects, they're, they're just dumb terrorists like the rest of them. So they're, they're definitely a, a dynamic there with ISIS. But I hate, man, I really did. I, I really hated ISIS on a, on a level that, but in the day, I kind of respected the Taliban after operating in Iraq. Guys in Iraq were just so quick to, to surrender, you know, at times and just, and just take their, take their chances with the judicial system. At least in, at least in Afghanistan, generally

• 1:40:10Speaker 04

  speaking, they were willing to, to fight it out with you. And it was almost more like a tribal war as well. Like, I don't know. Again, I'm not gonna sit here and give too much, too much respect and credence to the Taliban as if they're some sort of legitimate government, you know, fighting for their existence. And they're, they're horrible people. But compared to ISIS,

• 1:40:37Speaker 04

  they, you know, I, I can, I, I view them in two, two different categories.

• 1:40:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, the Taliban wasn't so much into like the flagrant war crimes and stuff like that, that ISIS was.

• 1:40:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, they, they had it, you know? I mean, they were, they were capable of it, but they, they, the, the amount, when ISIS was willing to do it, they were willing to do it often and do it on a very large scale.

• 1:41:02Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:41:03Speaker 04

  And, and they were, and they were willing to do it, you know, to kids as, as much as anyone. They were, they were just, they were just a different breed of evil. And I, I, I remember, you know, seeing, you know, seeing ISIS dead bodies and just looking down on them with absolutely no remorse or no, you know, internal struggle going, man, that was someone's son. You know, that was someone's father. But just looking at them and absolutely not caring and being like, that's just a two-legged dog. You know, wish, wish there were more next to them. I just really disliked them on another level.

• 1:41:41Jack Murphy?

  Well, could, could we talk a little bit more about Syria? Because you mentioned that that was like a totally different environment. And you guys presumably working with the SDF. And it, was it more of like a UW environment than some of the other deployments?

• 1:41:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'll tell you, that was an SF mission all day long. That was an SF mission. Um, we, we had way too few guys doing way too much. Um, you know, and for people who really aren't set up to partner with, with, with other units. Um, it, and I will tell you why SF didn't get that mission and they wanted it. Fifth group wanted it so bad. In fact, there was a plan to give it over to them. Uh, when we got to Raka, we were going to hand it over to them. Um, and then cooler minds prevailed. So I was like, it's a horrible idea. Like, that's like, it's like handing it over, you know, at halftime. They either take it over now or they don't take it at all. Like, don't, don't, don't,

• 1:42:42Speaker 04

  don't turn it over to them, to them right as they are getting to the, you know, the climax and, and need, and you need to be a well-oiled machine.

• 1:42:50Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:42:51Speaker 04

  Fighting their capital at, you know, at the, at, you know, the most and then, um, you know, and then give it to a new guy to figure out all their, all their, all their initial problems.

• 1:43:03Speaker 04

  The reason SF didn't get it is because SF, the same reason I started to not like SF at the end. They quit trusting their ground guys. They required too much, um, oversight. And that, that war was going too fast. If you, if to, to slow them down with the, the protocols that, that they would inevitably do. Um, so, um, the unit does a great job at trusting their ground guys. The, yeah, they, you know, I never, never had an issue, uh, you know, being questioned or asking why am I doing this or why do I need that?

• 1:43:45Speaker 04

  I just tell them what I'm doing and I tell them what I need. And, uh, you know, and, and if you don't give them a reason, you know, to, to, uh, to question you, they, they, they, they never will. Um, and so the, my, my first trip was very, was very unique because it was, it was still,

• 1:44:05Speaker 04

  I wouldn't even call it UW. Like it was, it was, it was closer to,

• 1:44:11Speaker 04

  to World War Two. Um, like, you know, we had, you had friendly lines, you had enemy lines. And there was, there was, there was, there was no in-between, you know, and, and even weirder than that at times, it was like, you know, we called it a banker's war. Like, no one, no one fought at night. They didn't, they didn't have night vision, you know? So, you know, when the sun would came up and everyone woke up and, and, and ate some breakfast, they started lobbing mortars, you know? And right before dinnertime, when everyone got hungry, they, you know, they, they packed it up and, and, uh, you know, and, and waited for the sun to come back up. Um, that's, yes, that's a, a little bit of a, you know, satire way to, to describe it.

• 1:44:52Speaker 04

  Cause it was very unlike that at, at times, but there is, there, there is a lot of truth, uh, to, to that as well. Um, there were times, yeah, you know, if you were to, you know, ha- have a fire or, or even a loud generator, like it, it would, it would, it would get you some, some mortar rounds at night. I mean, they, they would come out and play at night if you gave them a reason to. But generally speaking, if you didn't give them a reason to, um, they were just, it was just a very much a, uh, this is the good side, this is the bad side. They're in this village, we're in this village. There's two clicks of open ground between the two villages. And, uh, we're going to fight it out to see who, who's either going to lose this village or gain this village.

• 1:45:37Speaker 04

  And, uh, for us as, as a sniper, it really pushed us to, um, to lean heavily into, uh, what, what, you know, we started to call at the time ELR, extreme long range. Cause everything at the time was 800 meters and in, you know, 800 meters if you're lucky with a 308. Well, 308 wasn't going to do anything, you know, from, from, from 2,000 meters away, but that's where engagements are. And so now we're, now we've always had 338s, but we never really dusted them off and used them with a lot of, you know, extremely at, you know, at, at these, uh, engagements.

• 1:46:18Speaker 04

  And now, you know, we're finding out, you know, we, the way we, we use are, yeah, I would have a, a tripod and a, you know, and a pillow for my, uh, for my laser rangefinder. Like things that I've never had to do before, but you know, uh, you know, I, I would have a, you know, $3,000 really right stuff tripod just, just for my laser rangefinder. Because comes to find out, you know, at 2,200 meters away, if I'm just a little bit off and I lays the, you know, the building in front of the building I'm, I'm, you know, I'm trying to get, you know, I'm off, you know, I'm off by, by 50 meters. And in that 50 meters, now my elevation is drastically different.

• 1:47:04Speaker 04

  And I'm never going to hit my target at 2,000 meters, even though that, you know, that 338 is more than capable of making a 2,000 meter shot. So, um, I either just excited a lot of some of, some of your nerdy shooter audience, or I just put to sleep some of, some of the guys who just like direct action.

• 1:47:24Speaker 04

  We learned a lot, uh, about our equipment and about our guns in Syria. It was a very, very different war.

• 1:47:32Jack Murphy?

  And do you find, uh, the 338, once you guys dialed it in, that you guys were pretty effective, uh, using that weapons platform at those ranges?

• 1:47:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, that, that 338 was great. It was, uh, the, the one thing that we, we would go back and forth is when you get over 2,000 meters, the problem we'd run into is spotting your misses. Even though you think the 338 is, is a, is a large round, man, it, it is. Um, but you can easily not see a miss at 2,000 meters. Um, and if you can't see your miss, then you can keep throwing rounds all you want. But now you're just, you know, trying to get lucky. Um, and even though the 50 cal is not as accurate as a 338, um, at least you can see your misses and it's, you know, especially if you put like a Roffus round,

• 1:48:24Speaker 04

  you know, inside there, um, you can, you know, you can, seeing your, your misses in that environment becomes a lot easier. And even though it's not as accurate, um, you know, I, I at least can, you know, can make a, uh, an informed decision on, on a correction, which I just couldn't with a 338.

• 1:48:43Jack Murphy?

  Right. And did the,

• 1:48:45Speaker 04

  It really changed the way we operated a lot from long distance.

• 1:48:48Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Did, did the reliance on the sniper platforms have to do with, uh, the, um, air support not being as quick as it was in Afghanistan or Iraq?

• 1:49:00Speaker 04

  Uh, no, we, uh, we, we were the only game in town. So we always, we, we always got the, you know, kind of got what we wanted. Um, it, it has more to do with guys hanging out in windows or hanging out, you know, or, or being under, underneath structures that have an aerial, you know, platform isn't really going to be able to, to see as well as someone from, uh, from a ground level.

• 1:49:22Jack Murphy?

  Now, did you guys, uh,

• 1:49:25Speaker 04

  And if I called it an airstrike, I really have a hard time saying that's my kill. So I'm at least going to try to couple, throw rounds at it before I call it an airstrike.

• 1:49:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Now between the 338 and, and, uh, the, uh, the 50, did you guys experience, experiment all with like the 300 Winmags or anything like that? To, you know, for that, that sort of medium range type of?

• 1:49:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, the, the 300 Winmag, um, just wasn't a, a platform we used and, and no, no particular reason. Uh, you know, the, you know, the, the SF groups, to my knowledge, I think are the only ones that use that 300 Winmag. Um, and it's a great round. I mean, it's a laser round. I mean, the, the, the, um, ballistics of that round is, is absolutely great. It doesn't have a great, uh, barrel life to it. And unfortunately, the, the SF groups purchased that and they didn't do a good job of having a, like kind of a barrel replacement plan. So they actually had a great, they probably had one of the great medium range or one of the best medium range long guns in the arsenal for, for anyone. But with, uh, most of the barrels were shot out.

• 1:50:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Speaker 04

  Ended up not as, as, as great as they should have been.

• 1:50:36Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Cause I know some, that's something. The SEALs use quite a bit and and they seem to be very happy with it.

• 1:50:44Speaker 04

  Do they use a 300 as well?

• 1:50:45Jack Murphy?

  I I believe so. They they use it in their sniper school. I know. So.

• 1:50:49Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:50:50Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, we didn't. We didn't. The only thing we even use. I went to group SOTC and. And level one SOTC.

• 1:51:00Speaker 04

  Gosh, I got to think what's. SIFSEC or SIFSEC, if you will. Special Forces Sniper Course. And we only use 308, you know.

• 1:51:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, 308, yeah, not 338, 308.

• 1:51:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:13Jack Murphy?

  Oh, I said. So as a as these, you know, you're you're going back and forth from Syria. I mean, how did you see the the campaign evolve over time?

• 1:51:25Speaker 04

  The. The campaign was was pretty straightforward, really, even though we we handed off to to other squadrons, you know, they it was they really, you know. Encountered the same things we did and and, you know, worked very similarly. So really, it was just like, you know, we come in and out. It was just it's just picking back up where you left off.

• 1:51:47Speaker 04

  I in between rotations. I missed the the the fall of Raka. So I'm sure that would have been a lot different. And I'll tell you why I feel like it's a lot. It was a lot different.

• 1:52:02Speaker 04

  Because when I showed up to Raka, like very shortly after the fall of Raka, I remember driving around that place at night. Feeling like I was at the, you know, the opening of of Terminator when there's just.

• 1:52:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Speaker 04

  Bombed out buildings, just everywhere in this dark, smoky atmosphere. I've never seen.

• 1:52:25Speaker 04

  Damage at at that scale to to a city the way we leveled Raka. We absolutely leveled Raka. And rightfully so.

• 1:52:36Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And I I have to ask too, while we have you here, I mean, did you have any involvement in the Baghdadi raid?

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• 1:54:26Jack Murphy?

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• 1:54:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, that that was the very first deployment I missed.

• 1:54:49Jack Murphy?

  Got you. And I so hit Raka and what happened from there? I mean, you you said that you you actually went into the city at one point.

• 1:55:01Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Well, from.

• 1:55:09Speaker 04

  From there, we went back into a more traditional.

• 1:55:16Speaker 04

  Kind of high value target.

• 1:55:17Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:55:18Speaker 04

  Hunting. So the the war, the traditional war is over. And then that that kicked off a much more fun part of of Syria where we we went back into into quick strikes. And a lot of them and had and had a great time. That that was probably my my most enjoyable. Trip would have been after the fall of that. And, you know, some of those guys pretending like they can just put down their guns and meld back into the population and and. And the Kurds will just forget about them. Nope, the Kurds didn't forget about you.

• 1:55:56Speaker 04

  And they told us.

• 1:55:58Jack Murphy?

  And and these are the from the outside looking in, the occasional like CENTCOM press reports that somebody flew in in black helicopters in the night and hashed out business with the bad guys.

• 1:56:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it it happened a lot more than.

• 1:56:13Jack Murphy?

  The press releases.

• 1:56:16Speaker 04

  There is no need for the press to get wind of of any of it.

• 1:56:20Jack Murphy?

  What what was that like for you and and, you know, your fellow soldiers in the sense of? There there was, you know, the press might report on it occasionally, like we had just had these two very long wars, right? That were in and out of the media, but but there was a national awareness about it. But then Syria comes and and it's not in the national consciousness the way these other wars are, but we have troops that are fighting. Same as we do in parts of Africa and stuff. But what was that like for you guys?

• 1:56:54Speaker 04

  I welcomed it. Yeah, I shouldn't say I welcomed it. At at the time, I didn't know about it. I mean, really, like, you know, when you're in that world, like, I don't. If I don't know what the the news is reporting on or what they're not reporting on, you know, I live in a very, I lived in a very. Almost in a bubble, you know.

• 1:57:14Jack Murphy?

  Do your job, go home.

• 1:57:16Speaker 04

  You're right. Yeah, do your job, go home. And when I'm home, I'm I'm training for my next job, you know, so I don't, you know, I don't have time to listen to see what, you know, to see if the what the news is reporting about Syria. I, you know, I I live it in Syria. I don't, you know, necessarily. The only time I would see anything on the news is someone like, you know. Showed it to us and say, hey, this is this is what they're talking about. Or if something got leaked, you know, something got leaked, we'd always, you know, we'd always know it. And they'd always, you know, show it to us that something got leaked and try to. So like, but those are those are far and few between.

• 1:57:52Jack Murphy?

  Would they try to like? Like scare you guys straight, find out who did it like?

• 1:57:59Speaker 04

  No, most of most of the time, those those leaks would would have come from a partner force. Or.

• 1:58:11Speaker 04

  You know, someone, someone at a at a much, you know, higher level in the military that that they, you know, that knew was way.

• 1:58:17Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's not some. Yeah, it's somebody in the 3X or.

• 1:58:22Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:58:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's yeah, it's not even someone JSOC related.

• 1:58:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:27Speaker 04

  Like, it's someone that's, you know, at a at a at a theater like CENTCOM level that has a relationship with Fox News and. And and leaked it, you know, it's usually where.

• 1:58:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:40Speaker 04

  Along those lines.

• 1:58:41Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So from that time period, is there any other like significant missions that kind of stand out for you?

• 1:58:51Speaker 04

  I won't. I won't go into great detail about it. And I don't mean to do that as a teaser, but I'll I'll say this. More or less to kind of set the record straight on it. It's another thing that it's. It's funny what what does get news traction, what doesn't get news traction. What should have been a a much bigger story and wasn't, and I'll talk about it because like I said, you you can Google it. You know, John Dunbar, you know, dying in Syria. And and Matt Tonro, which was a British SAS guy, which was right next to him when he died.

• 1:59:28Speaker 04

  Should have been a huge news story, you know, if you think about it, I mean, you got a Delta Force guy and a British SAS guy dying on the on the same target. When has that ever happened? You know, that's that's. That that's a that was crazy. That's never happened in in the history of of either one of our of our existence. Yet in Syria, that was without a doubt a first.

• 1:59:51Speaker 04

  But it ended up being a bigger news story in Syria, I mean, in in England, because. You know, we had told our people that we that we obviously have, you know, ground troops and combat operations happening in Syria. They were they they weren't as forthcoming with it with the SAS.

• 2:00:10Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:00:10Speaker 04

  And so when the news, so when the news hit that an SAS guy died in Syria. You know, a lot of the public was like, whoa, what's going on here? You didn't, you guys. Said that we were kind of there in a support role. That doesn't seem like a support role.

• 2:00:27Speaker 04

  One of the, the worst misconceptions of that, of that, of that mission is that newspapers reported that it was, that it was fratricide that, that killed him. And it's

• 2:00:41Jack Murphy?

  Remember something about that, but it was an IED, wasn't it?

• 2:00:47Speaker 04

  And then, and there is a problem with it. Like you use terms like IED, which you're right, but, but people assume like roadside bomb IEDs. Cause that's what, you know, when you talk about IEDs is what, you know, what, you know, what, what it almost always is. Uh, we were dismounted at the time, really close to, to target, uh, to a bomb maker's target. He had a, he had early warning and his, uh, a, uh, again, an IED makeshift claymore went off and, uh, John took the brunt of that, but it set off his wall charge. Um, and his wall charge is what, is what killed Matt. And that is, and that story, you know, that story is out there.

• 2:01:33Speaker 04

  But generally speaking, it'll say, hey, uh, it was a fratricide and you know, he died due to a friendly explosion. They'll, they'll say it in ways that, that are, that kind of really, um,

• 2:01:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. It's a sympathetic explosion. It's not

• 2:01:49Speaker 04

  Jump around the truth.

• 2:01:50Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:51Speaker 04

  I, I would like the way they say that. Cause it's, so let's, it would be like writing a story and saying, um, you know, Sergeant First Class Smith died in Afghanistan due to a fuel, a, a, a gas tank explosion in his Humvee. Well, did the IED set off the gas tank explosion?

• 2:02:10Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:02:11Speaker 04

  Yes. Well, but the gas tank killed him. Like that makes, you know, nowhere in the history, do, do we ever, do we ever say that? I don't know the why, why we do it here. Um, it was the direct cause of, you know, of, of direct contact with

• 2:02:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 04

  Newspaper stories were written.

• 2:02:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:30Speaker 04

  That's not differently. That, that, that painted it, insinuated differently. I just, it bugs me.

• 2:02:36Jack Murphy?

  It's sort of the way fact checkers work sometimes, right? It is, is they, they, I mean, technically what they're saying that it was an American explosive that killed them is true, but they're missed, but, but they're leaving out really how it all went down.

• 2:02:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's like, that's, that's one, it's one way to

• 2:02:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. It's sort of like saying that somebody who died from, you know, from enemy fire died from bloodbath. It's like, yeah, they did die from

• 2:03:07Speaker 04

  That's right. Right. Yeah. But that's, that's so true.

• 2:03:11Jack Murphy?

  But they didn't just start bleeding.

• 2:03:14Speaker 04

  And like, and you know, they, the, uh, I don't remember which newspaper, but you know, the, the, um, the, you know, in, in England, they, they did like a whole investigation on it. And then, you know, wrote a report saying, you know, this is the official report, you know, off of it, you know, and sends it out as, you know, as official record. And again, it's, it's technically true, but I feel like it's, it's wildly, uh, misleading and does, it doesn't do justice, you know, honestly.

• 2:03:41Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:03:41Speaker 04

  To either one of the guys who were, who were, who were, who were warriors. I mean, they were both truly, truly good men. Um, I'll tell you a story just real quick about Matt Tonroe was an SAS guy.

• 2:03:56Speaker 04

  That guy would, uh, he'd have to go on helicopter every now and again, and go, you know, and go visit, you know, other places where, where they were at. And if he found out that we were, we were going on a, on a mission that night, he would do everything in his power to get his helo to come in sooner, or see if we would push the mission later. Cause he didn't want to miss a single target. He was absolutely addicted to going on missions. And, and I love that about him. Cause you know, that's, that's, that's the way you want every, every one of your guys to, you know, to be. And, um, so just, it's very unfortunate that, uh, you know, that he, he lost his life in, in Syria and in that manner.

• 2:04:39Speaker 04

  Because he absolutely was, uh, uh, represented his, his unit. You couldn't do a better job of, of representing those guys.

• 2:04:49Jack Murphy?

  And so how did, um, how, how did this, this start to like wind down for you? I mean, it sounds like you really like rode this wave throughout your career. Did some amazing things. Um, and you, you had a, a great, you know, 20 years in the military. I mean, what, what was it sort of like for you? Like you, you must have some inkling that like this is coming. I'm not going to be able to be an operator forever. I mean, what, what was that transition like for you?

• 2:05:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, I was, I was deep in my thirties and you know, almost, you know, a decade at a time on, on a team. You know, which my, my team time was, was coming to an end. Um, the, uh, what, what really, you know, kind of did it for me was, you know, after that, after that Syria trip, we had, we had been, uh, we were, we were doing training the way we always do training. And, uh, I, I was just unfortunate enough to be close to a couple of really big kind of training explosions that, that, that just really, they, they really rocked me. Um, and unlike earlier, you know, there's, you know, I'd been near those, those size explosions before,

• 2:05:57Speaker 04

  but for whatever reason, you know, at this point in my life, you know, maybe it just finally shook something loose. Um, I was, I was having some, some, some real, some real issues. Uh, so we'd, we'd get, and, and what would happen is almost every time we'd go back to, to do an explosive training, like these, these mental issues would, would, would rear back up almost like, like, like a re-injury of it. Um, it would get to a point where like just simple stuff, like I, you know, I'd have to, I would, I would write notes in my, in my locker to tell, to tell me where I parked my car. Because I would just go wandering out in the parking lot and looking for it. And it's a massive parking lot.

• 2:06:38Speaker 04

  And, and I, I feel like the first time it really felt odd to me. Cause usually when you see your car, you're like, oh, that's right. That's, that's right. That's where I parked my car. But like to see the car for the first time, be like, that's not, did someone move my car? And literally going in there and starting to accuse, you know, hey, who moved my car? Like I was parked, you know, at the right, and like, Brent, no one moved your car. I parked right next to you. That's where you parked this morning. Like, oh yeah, that's right. Um, you know, and trying to play it off and, you know, it's, I, I mean, I go on and on and on. But one of the, you know, the, the weirder stories is, you know, go, you know, ta- taking the, taking the wife and kids to church and just

• 2:07:20Speaker 04

  driving. And at some point, you know, you have, you know, your wife put, you know, her hand on your hand and be like, do you, do you know where we're going? I'm like,

• 2:07:31Speaker 04

  no, um, no, I don't know where we're going right now. Like we're all dressed up kind of nice. And so I'm going to guess we're going to church. Uh, but no, I don't know. I don't know what day it is. I don't know where we're going. And, uh, and I was with my wife's like, here, you're going to go talk to someone Monday or, or I will. And, uh, and my, my team time was, was, I, I was within, you know, I'd, I'd one more deployment left, you know, really. I mean, I was, um, so it was, it, it, it felt right. Yeah. And, um, I felt, I felt complete with my career. I mean, really Syria was great. Man, I love Syria.

• 2:08:12Speaker 04

  Um, but when I got home from that last trip, I, I don't, you know, just something clicked. I was like, you know what? Uh, you know, every trip I couldn't wait for the next one. And it's not that I didn't, you know, didn't have the hunger, didn't want to wait, you know, didn't want to deploy again. But there was a feeling of completion, you know, there that had just never been there before. So when it was all said and done, uh, uh, it wasn't, uh, it, to be honest with you, it wasn't, it wasn't the hardest transition. It was at first, you know, realizing it's time. But as we started making steps towards that, uh, I was, I was kind of excited about the, what, you know, the, the next chapter in life.

• 2:08:48Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome. Do we have a, do we have questions for Brent? Uh, we do. Um,

• 2:08:55Jack Murphy?

  uh, I, I just wanted to say also that, uh, air tags, I put an air tag in my car. It, it worked. It works wonders.

• 2:09:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:05Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09Jack Murphy?

  Let's hear, Jackson, thank you very much. Uh, was attending selection for the unit more challenging coming from guard SF? Is guard SF well represented in the, and also how often do you see Marines, airmen and sailors at the unit?

• 2:09:25Speaker 04

  That's, that's a good question. Um, I, I was surprised at, at how many other 20th group guys were there. Um, there, there was a, there was a period of time where the, the highest, uh, it was a, a short period of time, but, but it, it, it fluctuates. That 20th group had one of, had the best, uh, uh, success rate at, at selection. So, uh, yeah, it's, there's, there's definitely no shortage of, or at least at that time, you know, of, of guard guys. Um, and there's, you know, there's an eclectic mix of, uh, of guys in the unit. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it'll always be heavy with Green Berets and Rangers.

• 2:10:05Speaker 04

  But there is, there's someone from everyone there. I'll just, you know, leave it that. We'll necessarily talk about the percentages of, of all of them, but, uh, they're, they're, they're all there and they definitely all show up to selection.

• 2:10:18Jack Murphy?

  Um, and Jackson, thank you very much. How different are the cultures between the squadrons?

• 2:10:25Speaker 04

  Oh, that's, that's, uh, that's a, that's another good question. Actually it, when I first got there, the, um,

• 2:10:36Speaker 04

  the cultures were, were, I wouldn't say drastically different because the, the truth is if you went back a little bit further when I was there, some people would say they were drastically different. Uh, when, you know, uh, when I got there, there was, there were still, um, very, very different. They all had their, their, uh, their own personalities. Uh, and, and sometimes for better or worse. And, uh, by, by the, really by the time of, uh, by the time I got to the end of my career, a lot of those, uh, I would probably say more on a neg-, you know, those negative type, uh, cultures just had, had pretty much all but, all but disappeared.

• 2:11:17Speaker 04

  And, uh, even though there are still slight differences be- between the, the squadrons, it, it wa- it wasn't as much as it used to be.

• 2:11:26Jack Murphy?

  Um, and then how do you feel about, how did you feel about, uh, Dev Group and HRT when you were in?

• 2:11:34Speaker 04

  Uh, I, I didn't feel about him.

• 2:11:39Jack Murphy?

  Uh, Joe's.

• 2:11:40Speaker 04

  Who, who are they?

• 2:11:44Jack Murphy?

  I think I read a book about the second one.

• 2:11:47Speaker 04

  Um, the, uh, we had a, we had a lot of interaction with, uh, with the Dev Group guys and, um, yeah, I've, I've done, you know, I've done, you know, large scale training exercises with them. They've, you know, they've come over and had large trail, you know, you know, send onesie, onesie twosie guys or a team over to do large scale training operations to get that, uh, that crossover.

• 2:12:10Speaker 04

  And we'll just say in various places around the world, I've, I've had, uh, one or two of their guys, uh, attached to us. So they could get, you know, experience of where we're at. Um, and they were always good guys. They really were. They were always good guys. Um, HRT, I don't know. Never, never saw them. They just, you know, completely different mission set. They're generally speaking, they're Kona's, we're O Kona's.

• 2:12:38Speaker 04

  There, there was a time we had HRT guys kind of attached to us, but when they were attached to us, they were just evidence collectors. You know, they were, they weren't, they weren't shooters by, by any stretch of the imagination. And nor, and nor could they be. They, you know, they haven't gone through our level of training.

• 2:12:54Jack Murphy?

  Uh, Joe's got you. Thank you very much. Uh, did you work a lot with 22 SAS while deployed?

• 2:13:00Jack Murphy?

  I think we got that.

• 2:13:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I think we kind of got that. Uh, dog point.

• 2:13:05Speaker 04

  And there, there's, there's another one and I'll just tell you just a, a, a quick story of how much respect we have with, with, uh, with the SAS. You know, obviously we were modeled after those guys. Um, they, they helped us out a lot with our tactics in the beginning and by the beginning, I mean, it's like 1977. You know, Charlie Beck with, uh, Founder Days and that type of, uh, relationship has, has maintained for, for 40 plus years. So, um, I mean, I'll make up this, you know, this fictional scenario, but it's, but it's absolutely true. If I was in Syria and some, you know, and heck, I'll make it close to them, a Green Beret, a Green Beret comes and knocks on my door and like, hey,

• 2:13:47Speaker 04

  you know, heard who you guys are, just want to come over and say hi. I'd be like, uh, go walk 40 miles and you can come back and say hi. You know, you know, uh, I'd say it nicer, but yeah, but generally, you know, generally speaking, that's turn it around, bring a foreigner to my door, a guy who's not even American, but make it a, an SAS guy, come and knock on my door and say, hey, you know, hey mate, you know, I'm, I'm with the, the two, two. I was told to come say hi. I'd open that door as fast as I could and bring them right on in.

• 2:14:17Jack Murphy?

  Invite him for a spot of tea.

• 2:14:21Speaker 04

  That's right. Yeah. The, the, the relationship that the, the two units have are, are, are, are great. And I'll, I still talk to some of those guys. Great, great guys.

• 2:14:32Jack Murphy?

  Um, dog point. Thank you. Uh, what'd you like about your squadron? What was the vibe like? Any funny stories?

• 2:14:41Speaker 04

  Um, uh, there's, there's always, it, it doesn't matter what part of this business you're in, you know, you work with the funniest guys you've, you've ever been around, you know, and I don't care if you're a SEAL, Green Beret, Rage, I don't care what you did. You're just hanging out with the funniest guys you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll ever work with.

• 2:15:02Speaker 04

  You know, the, the vibe in my squadron, I think was a very, was a good middle of the road vibe. Like we, we, uh, we were very, we're very professional when needed to be and, um, you know, could, could kick back and, and relax when, when needed to be. I think other squadrons at times did, uh, were too professional and weren't very fun to be around. And, uh, you know, some of them were, uh, you know, were a little bit more, I don't know, say, we'll say cowboyish, but I don't, I don't mean to say that unless in a, in a, in a, in a bad light. Uh, but I think we had a good balance of, of, of both. And so I, I really, and, uh, enjoyed, enjoyed the culture of the squadron I was in.

• 2:15:43Jack Murphy?

  So Goldilocks would find you guys just right.

• 2:15:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:50Jack Murphy?

  Uh, Nick TCH, well, this is actually for Jack. Will Mike Perry ever return?

• 2:15:55Jack Murphy?

  Maybe. Yeah. If he wants to, sure. We'd love to have him back.

• 2:15:58Jack Murphy?

  Dano not. Yeah.

• 2:16:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. First, first group, Mike Perry.

• 2:16:04Speaker 04

  Oh, no, obviously I'm plotting. Okay. The, the bare knuckle fighter, Mike Perry.

• 2:16:07Jack Murphy?

  Not, not that Mike Perry.

• 2:16:09Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:16:10Jack Murphy?

  Um, Dano not in Lions Den. Uh, thank you. Uh, Delta leads the way, big PP, 82nd, Pug and Dragons.

• 2:16:19Jack Murphy?

  Uh, it was just a comment. Yeah. Um,

• 2:16:24Jack Murphy?

  and then,

• 2:16:28Jack Murphy?

  uh, hmm. So Joe's got you. Thank you very much. Um, you can talk or not talk about this, obviously, uh, was your squadron involved at all with the battle of Gasham in 2018 against Wagner Group?

• 2:16:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was, uh, uh, I, I was in Darazar. It was, uh, it was a good time. Uh, there's, there's a news article about it. You can read it.

• 2:16:59Jack Murphy?

  Uh, dog point. Uh, thank you very much. When you went back to HVT, raised in Syria, was it business as usual or did you have to change it up?

• 2:17:10Speaker 04

  Oh, um, uh, more or less business as usual. Um, you know, the, you know, all the IDs was, you know, definitely more of a thing on, um, uh, you know, that type of, you know, gaining ground, conventional forces, they're pulling back, you know, laying them all in. They, they still kept, you know, the knowledge, uh, of, of that and some of the TTPs.

• 2:17:34Speaker 04

  But generally, generally speaking, it was back to business as usual.

• 2:17:41Jack Murphy?

  Um, and I believe that is it. So tell us about FRCC and some of the things that you're involved in now.

• 2:17:51Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah. Uh, when, when I got out of the, uh, the military, I had to figure out what I want to do when I grow up. Um, had no real, you know, solid plans. I, you know, I did a couple, like, uh, 1099 gigs, contracting, but all Kona's stuff. I knew I didn't want to go overseas and contract. Um, nothing against any of those guys who do, you know, I just, you know, it's not something that, that I was looking to, to do.

• 2:18:16Speaker 04

  Had a couple of former unit guys, uh, you know, start calling me up and be like, hey, we're training a SWAT team here. I need an extra instructor. You want to come out? I was like, that sounds, yeah, I'd, I'd love to go, you know, hang out SWAT teams and, you know, try to transfer some of this knowledge that's really kind of very uniquely, you know, to us and kind of uniquely to, uh, unique to SWAT teams, um, because they, you know, they, they deal with, with barricaded shooters, active shooters, things like that, that, that would happen on, on, on our targets. And I really enjoyed sharing information with those guys. Like I really did. Like I, I got a, you know, I felt like I, you know, every time I went and taught those guys that I, I truly,

• 2:18:59Speaker 04

  um, gave them the tools needed to be just as effective, if not more effective and to do business smarter to make sure that they can go home at night. Uh, and I'll never teach someone tactics where, where, where, where safety is somehow and like the, the, the lead, uh, of, of, of a reason for, for teaching a tactic. Never, never, never a safety ever played a part on that's why we do this tactic. But if the effectiveness can stay 100% the same and there is the same end result that this guy dies,

• 2:19:42Speaker 04

  yet I can increase your survivability. Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about that. Um, and so, uh, you know, I got to, I got to basically show those guys the lessons that we learned in blood. Like I, I, I really wish I could say that we're so much smarter at the unit than everyone else. And that's why our tactics are so much better.

• 2:20:05Speaker 04

  We're kind of smart, but the unfortunate truth is we just get to see a lot more targets. And we had to learn it the hard way like everyone else does. So we just got, we just get a lot more exposure to mistakes. And to, and to doing things wrong. And some of those things, to be honest, it took us way too long to, uh, to, to change the way we do, we do business. Um, so, uh, I'm really glad to be able to share that with those guys. That's something that eventually turned into, uh, me and a SEAL Team Six buddy. We're gonna start or did start the beginning of a nonprofit to raise money for a police officer, for a police officer training.

• 2:20:45Speaker 04

  Budget is such, such a big deal to those guys. They have no budget. They want to train. You know, they, and sometimes they can get like equipment budgets and sometimes they have more equipment than you think they would, than, that they would have because of certain grants. But training doesn't come along with it. Um, and some departments don't have the necessarily equipment either. So it's a, it's really a diverse, you know, um, group of people you run into in SWAT teams. Um, and I'm not talking about your, your wokeness term of, of, uh, of diverse, you know, I'm talking about just the different,

• 2:21:26Speaker 04

  the different experience levels, the, the different training, the different equipment. It's, it's all over the place. Uh, so we were gonna start a nonprofit, uh, come to find out I, I don't like asking people for money. And that is a integral part of being a nonprofit. It's much, so very, it's a key component. It's a key component to a nonprofit. So, uh, I ended up starting a, you know, starting first responders coffee company first, you know, that I'd much rather, um, you know, sell things, have an exchange for, you know, a, a, a, you know, value for a product and then, you know, take, take the money we raised from that.

• 2:22:06Speaker 04

  And, uh, and put it towards first responders. So we started with the coffee company. We started in November of last year. We've, uh, we've donated back a little over $20,000, uh, in, in less than a year. And, and the, and the truth is, uh, I love saying that number because it kind of sounds like a big number for a small business. But we, we get more requests than, than I could ever feel right now. So, uh, we won't be happy until we can stop telling departments that here what we're doing and, and asking for help until we can fulfill all those requests. We will never be satisfied. Um, and so that comes into the, the next part of the business.

• 2:22:49Speaker 04

  You know, we could add another coffee line, which would take a lot of work and maybe add a little bit of revenue. But, uh, we, we decided on, hey, what if we added a whole new product? We can get into a whole new, um, you know, group of, of purchasers. And so, uh, we started first responder cigar company and hopes of, of, of garnering a, a wider audience. And that's been great. That's been, I, um, a little bit of a selfish pleasure because I smoke two to three of my own stash every day. And so I needed that at wholesale pricing.

• 2:23:25Speaker 04

  But, uh, but besides that, you know, if you think half, you know, half of the country drinks coffee, but it, but it is a very, you know, you know, kind of convoluted market. There's a lot of people fighting in that space. Right. Even though I don't, you know, I could argue within first responders is, yeah, it's a, there's, there's a, you know, a multi-million, you know, uh, person, audience that, you know, that, that doesn't have a, a product, you know, kind of like ours catering to them. So, you know, we do have a nice niche cut out in that area, but a small percentage of people smoke cigars. But we're the only cigar, you know, we're the only, one of the very, very few American disabled veteran own, you know, cigar lines.

• 2:24:07Speaker 04

  And then of course, the only one doing anything for first responders. Um, our cigar sales will probably take over our coffee sales in the next couple of months.

• 2:24:16Jack Murphy?

  I'll, I'll check you guys out Brent, because we smoke cigars on the show. We have our humidor here. So I'll definitely check out.

• 2:24:24Speaker 04

  You got a box coming at you.

• 2:24:26Jack Murphy?

  All right. Well, we're happy to support the cause. And, and we encourage everybody else to support the cause, whether it's for coffee or cigars. Or I guess you said whiskey, but I guess cognac would go better, right? First.

• 2:24:39Speaker 04

  Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of have this FRCC, you know, uh, thing going.

• 2:24:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. Company. We'll, we'll work with it. We'll massage that.

• 2:24:51Jack Murphy?

  But you guys can, can find them at F R C, uh, coffee.com. That's Foxtrot Romeo Charlie Coffee.com. Check them out and it's going to be in the link. Uh, it's going to be in the show description also, um, down below. And then also, uh, you started out as a guest on the Antihero Podcast, right? And then kind of worked your way up just through sheer talent and charisma.

• 2:25:28Speaker 04

  Right. He needed a coach with a small vocabulary and I was the clear choice.

• 2:25:33Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and you guys, yeah, uh, you can find the Antihero Podcast on YouTube and also, um, on podcast platforms, right? Your, your favorite podcast. So tell us about that.

• 2:25:46Speaker 04

  Um, yeah, it, it, it really coincides with the first responder, uh, coffee company, uh, story. Uh, I think, um, if I remember right, the, a local news channel picked up a story about us and I just got a random email from, you know, from a, a small podcast, you know, saying, hey, uh, I'd love to have you on the show. I'm a Orange County deputy, which is the, the county I live in. So I was like, well, absolutely. I'll do a podcast with you. I mean, you're in my own backyard. Went over there, did a podcast with them, uh, really enjoyed it. It was a good time. He's, he's a really good dude and, and a first responder. Uh, it was an easy conversation to have with them. Uh, he had me back on, you know, a, a couple more times. And, you know, and the times I was on was always the, you know, his, his bigger shows.

• 2:26:32Speaker 04

  And, uh, you know, not to be edgy, but it's just true and it happened, you know, I, I, I ended up, I ended up saying something on a, a 30 second snippet on a podcast, ended up into a much bigger deal. Try to make it real quick. Um, he just, he asked me, uh, he, he asked me some off the wall question on a, on a first responder topic interview and he goes, hey, well, are there, are there any secrets like you want to tell me about, uh, you know, black ops? I was like, no, I don't really have any, because to be honest with you, most things get leaked. So you, you probably know them all anyway. And then he randomly goes, did Rob O'Neill kill Osama bin Laden?

• 2:27:19Speaker 04

  And I just, I answered the way I kind of do in a team room and I go, Rob O'Neill didn't kill bin Laden. It's the worst kept secret in all of special operations. And he cut that as a snippet and posted it as the promo, although it had nothing to do with the, uh, with, with the episode. And it, and it goes viral.

• 2:27:40Jack Murphy?

  Brent, you rabble rouser.

• 2:27:43Jack Murphy?

  And Rob O'Neill, did he actually respond to that? Or, uh, so for anybody who's curious, you do have to check out like the full episode where you go into the weeds with it, which was episode 37.

• 2:27:57Speaker 04

  37. So the, and the problem with that was it was cut as a teaser, an unintentional teaser. That wasn't so, wasn't a teaser that was gonna, that was gonna go into something more. That was it. That was just my comment about it. It goes viral and has, I don't know, between all of them, a million views and, and a lot of people were upset. They're like, you can't just say something like that and not back it up. And there was a lot of that and, and a lot of people just upset that, you know, I would make such a claim without any, you can't call someone a liar and have no, you know, uh, you know, evidence to it. So it took me a little bit. I was like, you know what? They're right. So I, I came back out with a two and a half hour podcast,

• 2:28:40Speaker 04

  talking about this exact subject, taking open source information from, from Matt Bissonnet to, uh, to your guys' podcast, uh, to, you know, to, um, not, not my normal star witness, but, uh,

• 2:28:58Speaker 04

  Osama bin Laden's wife, who was also in the room, actually makes a statement about what happened that night.

• 2:29:05Speaker 04

  Hate to, hate to ruin a surprise ending, but everyone's story are all the same except for one.

• 2:29:13Jack Murphy?

  So everybody's lying but Rob.

• 2:29:17Speaker 04

  Everyone's, no, Rob is the only outlier in here. Everyone else has the same exact story about what happened that night. Except, except for the guy making millions off of it. I mean, words like stolen valor are being thrown around, but I, I, I don't know. You can use your own words.

• 2:29:35Jack Murphy?

  So, yeah, and I, people should go check out that, that. Podcast, the deep dive that you guys did. Well, in the podcast in general, because you guys cover a lot of really cool topics because you talk about, I mean, a lot of first responder stuff. I mean, and you guys, you guys call out bullshit where you see bullshit, too.

• 2:29:56Speaker 04

  We, we do, but I, and I, I told him, although my, my co-host Tyler really, uh, he has, you know, very like of a, you know, he loves punk rock and he has that, he likes that culture and he, he doesn't, he doesn't mind mixing it up a little bit. Although ironically enough, uh, you know, that, that comment makes it looks like I'm, I'm, I'm more than happy to stir things up. But the, the truth is, you know, I stepped in it and then I had to own it. And I, I told, you know, the, you know, the anti-hero podcast, when I came on, end of the day, I really want this to be a platform where we can tell the stories of first responders that I just don't think get told. And, and, and, and there's always going to be the, and we'll have those stories on, in fact, we have one coming, you know, tomorrow.

• 2:30:38Speaker 04

  A cop that got, that, that took a round and, you know, got shot in the line of duty. You know, that's very, you know, very unique to any profession. You know, there's cops getting shot all over this country. It's a, it's an epidemic and it's, it's, it's horrible. But, you know, those, those stories are out there. But let me take, there are stories out there that paramedics and ambulance, right? You know, uh, you know, writers can, can tell you that never get a voice, never get to tell, you know, their side of the story. They see some of the worst stuff, day in and day out. Kids and moms getting mangled in a car wreck, you know, on the way to, you know, on the way to school.

• 2:31:17Speaker 04

  Just things that are, that are horrible. But, you know, they, you know, I, I just want to make, I want to get a, a platform out there to where all first responders.

• 2:31:25Jack Murphy?

  That's great.

• 2:31:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, can tell their stories.

• 2:31:28Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that, that's fantastic. Um, and yeah, I mean, like, it's weird that the reporting on police shootings, police being shot, like it's gone way down, but police are like getting shot a lot out there right now.

• 2:31:43Speaker 04

  Two police officers in, uh, at, in Orlando just, just got shot a couple of weeks ago. And, and here's, and here's what's outside this, here's what's a really cool story. Usually when that happens, it, it, however, it's, it's how it seems is, uh, you know, the suspect flees into a, a county or, you know, or an area outside the SWAT team's jurisdiction. So it just, this is the way it happens. Not, not, not, not, not often enough does the local SWAT team whose brother and sister you just shot, get to go take care of it. But that's exactly what happened in Orlando. This guy holds up in a, in a hotel still within the Orlando city limits.

• 2:32:26Speaker 04

  And the SWAT guys go to work and, uh, uh, that, that guy, um, got, got the good news that night. I guess I'm assuming he resisted arrest or had a, had a, had a gun he shouldn't have. And, um, you know, and the good news is he doesn't have to go through the court system. He's, he's already, uh, he's already got a sentence. And, uh, I got to send those guys a whole box of cigars with a handwritten letter and it said, hey, you know, uh, you know, enjoy this, you know, not, you know, taking human life is obviously something you should, you should, uh, should never be, you know, taken lightly. But that being said, not, not everyone here de- deserves this life.

• 2:33:07Speaker 04

  And I gave him just a, a, a long heartfelt, you know, a heartfelt letter that said, like, you know, I've gone through doors, it worked out well tonight, but I know, I know what it feels like to not know how tonight's going to work out right before that door opens. You know, and just, you know, some, some kind of intimate stuff about it. And, uh, they loved it. They framed it. They smoked my cigars. And, uh, you know, and, and they're back at it. Take, you know, removing bad guys from the streets, you know, every other night. And I love that about SWAT teams.

• 2:33:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Brent, um, again, man, thank you for doing this tonight. And I just want to let people know, uh, we'll be back Monday with William Osgood, who's a special forces in Vietnam. And then next Friday, we're going to have Robin Horstfall on the show who was in SAS. So we're really looking forward to talking to those two guys this upcoming week. Brent, any final thoughts before we wrap up tonight?

• 2:34:01Speaker 04

  No, I just, again, I, I couldn't be any more humbled. You guys had me on here and, and, and thinking that, uh, my story's interesting enough to, to listen to me run my rap, my, my, run my trap for a couple of hours.

• 2:34:12Jack Murphy?

  You, you were great, man. It was really fascinating. Uh, and I really appreciate you doing this. Yeah, we deeply appreciate your time. What, uh, can, are you on social media much? Can people follow you if they're interested?

• 2:34:25Speaker 04

  I, I, uh, some, some habits I, I didn't want to break. Um, the, the only social media I have is, is the business. And, uh, and, and I keep it there. And I didn't even want to learn that part of social media, but, but I had to.

• 2:34:36Jack Murphy?

  There you go. That's cool. People can go check that out. So definitely, uh, check out FRCC, First Responder Coffee Company, cigar company, and soon to be cognac company, uh,

• 2:34:50Jack Murphy?

  or sorbessa company. You'll figure something out.

• 2:34:54Speaker 04

  Here's something else.

• 2:34:55Jack Murphy?

  And, uh, check Brent out on the Antihero Podcast. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, yeah, like I said, hit us up when you're coming through New York sometime. You want to light up some stogies. We'll be around.

• 2:35:08Jack Murphy?

  And everyone else out there, have a nice weekend and, uh, we will see you on Monday.

• 2:35:12Speaker 05

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• 2:36:50Jack Murphy?

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• 2:37:12Jack Murphy?

  Yep. And RS, thank you. Thank you. Just saw your donation. Thank you.

• 2:37:19Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

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• 2:38:47Speaker 01

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• 2:38:51Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:38:55Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:38:58Speaker 07

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:39:01Jack Murphy?

  With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellson swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:39:06Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:39:08Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:39:23Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:39:37Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

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• 2:39:56Speaker 06

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• 2:41:00Jack Murphy?

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  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:41:06Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues from the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:41:30Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:41:44Speaker 06

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• 2:41:56Speaker 05

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• 2:42:03Speaker 06

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  911, what's your emergency?

• 2:43:05Jack Murphy?

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 2:43:12Speaker 07

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:43:13Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues from the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:43:37Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:43:51Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:44:03Speaker 05

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• 2:44:10Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

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• 2:45:12Jack Murphy?

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 2:45:19Speaker 07

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:45:20Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues from the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:45:44Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:45:58Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:46:10Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 2:46:17Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:46:37Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:46:44Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 2:47:18Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere.

• 2:47:20Jack Murphy?

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns.

• 2:47:25Speaker 07

  There's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:47:26Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues from the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:47:50Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from "That sounds fun" to "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:48:04Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:48:16Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 2:48:23Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:48:43Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:48:50Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:49:25Jack Murphy?

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 2:49:27Speaker 01

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:49:29Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:49:32Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:49:34Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:49:40Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:49:42Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:49:56Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:50:10Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:50:22Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 2:50:29Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:50:49Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:50:56Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:51:27Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 2:51:31Jack Murphy?

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 2:51:33Speaker 01

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:51:35Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:51:38Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:51:39Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:51:46Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:51:48Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:52:03Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:52:17Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:52:29Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 2:52:36Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:52:56Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:53:03Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:53:32Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:53:40Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:53:42Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:53:44Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:53:51Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:53:52Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:54:08Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:54:22Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:54:33Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 2:54:40Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:55:01Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:55:08Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:55:36Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 2:55:40Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:55:44Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:55:47Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:55:48Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:55:55Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:55:57Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:56:12Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:56:26Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:56:38Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 2:56:44Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:57:05Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:57:12Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 2:57:46Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:57:50Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:57:53Speaker 07

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 2:57:54Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:58:01Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:58:03Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:58:18Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 2:58:32Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 2:58:44Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 2:58:50Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 2:59:11Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 2:59:18Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:59:47Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 2:59:55Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:59:57Speaker 07

  What's the homicide detective doing here?

• 2:59:59Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 3:00:06Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues from the Bible.

• 3:00:07Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:00:23Speaker 05

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 3:00:37Speaker 06

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 3:00:48Speaker 05

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more. Rain or shine.

• 3:00:55Speaker 06

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 3:01:15Speaker 05

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 3:01:23Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 3:02:01Jack Murphy?

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:02:03Speaker 07

  What's the homicide detective doing here?

• 3:02:05Jack Murphy?

  Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hellsend swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 3:02:12Speaker 07

  That's one of the plagues from the Bible.

• 3:02:13Jack Murphy?

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. I felt a jackhammering pain in my jaw. Like someone sawing my bones. Barbed wire in my shoulder. Like a cattle prod in my hip. Like I put my foot in a blender. Pain is different for everyone. But where pain starts, Gernavix Suzetragine begins. Gernavix is a non-opioid 50-milligram prescription tablet for adults with moderate to severe acute pain that reduces pain signals before they reach the brain. Before those signals tell the brain to feel... Like I punched an angry beehive. ...and pain reduction can finally begin.

• 3:02:55Jack Murphy?

  Do not take Gernavix with CYP3A inhibitors. Avoid use with grapefruit or liver problems, as these may increase side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medicines if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Gernavix may make certain medicines and birth control less effective. Side effects include itching, muscle spasms, rash, and elevated muscle enzymes. To learn more about Gernavix, ask your doctor. Call 1-833-589-PAIN or visit gernavix.com. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 3:03:26Speaker 06

  This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 3:03:29Speaker 07

  Every friend group has that one person who puts their card down for brunch and sends the Venmo request.

• 3:03:34Speaker 06

  If that's you and your Venmo balance is poppin'. You need a Venmo debit MasterCard so that you can spend your balance instantly. No transferring anything, no waiting around.

• 3:03:44Speaker 07

  So as soon as you get paid back for brunch, you can pay for those concert tickets you've been eyeing or put it toward your next night out.

• 3:03:49Speaker 06

  Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance.

• 3:03:52Speaker 07

  Learn more about the Venmo debit card at venmo.com/card. Venmo balance account required to get the card. And use a balance effective November 1, 2026. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by The Bancorp Bank, N.A.

• 3:04:05Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.