SC EP:1299 The booger will get you

Mike writes "It was the middle of summer, and I was out riding my bicycle. My parents had gotten distracted and busy with other things. I think my mom was asleep, and nobody was really paying much attention to me. It was around 10:00 or 10:30 at night, and I was still outside riding my bike. Our house sat right on a corner intersection, and about 150 feet behind it was my granddaddy's workshop. He was a carpenter and a farmer, and he had built this long, rectangular, shoebox-shaped workshop that was probably about 75 feet long. On one side of the workshop, he had added a lean-to shelter where he kept his tractor, hay bales, and other things. On the far back side, he had built a horse pen. The pen extended about 10 feet underneath the lean-to, giving the horse a place to get out of the rain. There was a stall door that we kept secured with a chain and lock. I was riding my bicycle around the shop when something happened. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I saw a 10-foot-tall, ape-like creature come charging out of the woods at me. But whatever it was, it had to be at least nine feet tall. It was way over my head, even while I was sitting on my bicycle. It was around 10:30 at night. There was no moon, and the only light came from a 40-watt bulb on the back porch of our house. Whatever it was, it was big. It appeared black because it blocked out what little ambient light there was. It came out of the woods behind the workshop. The woods had actually grown right up to the side of the building. It came after me, and I pedaled that bicycle harder than I have ever pedaled anything in my life. I was headed straight for the light on the back porch. Whatever it was scared me so badly that I dropped my bike, got my shoelaces tangled up, and ended up dragging the bicycle up the back steps. I scraped my shins up pretty badly in the process, and I was beating on the back door trying to get inside. Whatever it was, it stopped. We had a little storage building, maybe 10 by 12 feet, just off the back porch. It stopped right at the edge of that building, where the light from the porch ended. My granddaddy, who raised me and whom we lived with, came out the back door carrying a shotgun. Whatever it was had stopped there, just beyond the light. That was my very first experience. For as far back as I can remember, my great-grandparents lived farther up River Road, toward Uwharrie, and I spent a lot of time with them. They always talked about the booger. They would let me play in the yard right in front of the house, just off the porch, but they wouldn't let me go around to any place where they couldn't see me. My great-grandma was always telling me, "You don't play in those woods. You don't go near the woods. The booger will get you. The booger will get you." I didn't realize until a few years ago that the creature was something people referred to by that name. I think a lot of people in Virginia call it a "wood booger." They had always warned me, "You can't go in the woods. You can't play in the woods without us." They wanted to be with me, and we spent a lot of time walking the trails around their house. But we only did that during the daytime."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelled me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet of what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting?

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ, you better. Karen, see ya.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Hello?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Get somebody out here.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  What's going on now, sir?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Do you see him now, sir?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh.

• 1:32Speaker 04

  This is Blair coming to you from Delongah, Georgia, the home of the first gold rush. And you're listening to the best podcast in the world, Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:08Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here. Tonight we'll be chatting with Mike and Mike comes to us from North Carolina. And he basically lived in the middle of the Uwari National Forest. Like he had an encounter when he's very young, his grandparents used to always tell him, "Watch out for the boogers, they'll get ya." And he really had no clue what they were talking about. Later in life, he started investigating these creatures and going out with researchers to this one area that was actually very close to his home. And he came across some surprising evidence. I'm really not sure how to feel about it. But again, I'll let Mike go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email.

• 2:50Wes Germer?

  My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Mike to the show. Mike, thanks for coming on.

• 3:09Speaker 06

  Appreciate you having me on.

• 3:11Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I appreciate you being here and I really want to kind of just start from the very beginning. Kind of leading up to your very first encounter. Um, if you would, I'll let you take it away. What, what were you doing and kind of walk me into this very first encounter?

• 3:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, to, to lay it out and set the backdrop so it all kind of makes sense. Um, I was, I was born and spent the first 16 or 17 years of my life in right smack in the middle of Uwari. The house I grew up in, uh, we lived, me and my mom lived with my grandparents and they pretty much raised me. I was fortunate enough to not only know, but also was kept for a period of time during the day um, by my great grandparents. Who, you know, they were maybe five, six miles up the road from us. Now, the, the house I grew up in was right at, it was at the intersection of Lemons Road and River Road.

• 4:05Speaker 06

  Um, which is right off of 2427, basically within a mile of the twin bridges that separate Stanley and Montgomery County. So we're talking right at the southern end of the, the Uwari National Forest. So yeah, it, it started when I was younger. Um, I was, you know, toddler age and started having dreams and you know, they were pretty vivid dreams. They've stuck with me for 52 years.

• 4:34Speaker 06

  But you know, the dreams started, um, and this is before I had even heard the words bigfoot, Sasquatch, booger, or anything like that. And you know, dreams consisted of, it was always like a gigantic hairy uh, humanoid that would, you know, trying to kick the back door in and drag me out of the house and things like that. And we never could really figure out where that stuff was coming from. And because, you know, I really hadn't seen anything like that on TV. They didn't really watch anything of that nature, but I do know in, you know, later life, now that I've started looking into this stuff, a lot of people say that they do have

• 5:15Speaker 06

  or have been theorized to have some type of, I don't know, not telekinetic, but some type of mental abilities. But anyway, um, the first like actual experience I had, I was about 10 years old. And it was during the summer vacation between school years. And even during the summer, I wasn't allowed to play outside at night. As soon as it got dark, you come in the house. And there was one summer right around 10 or 11. And I guess they just weren't paying attention. My mom fell asleep, my grandparents got distracted doing something and it's like 10 o'clock at night and I'm riding my bicycle around.

• 5:58Speaker 06

  And the, the house I grew up in, it was on the, like I said, it was on the corner of a two lane state road and a dirt road. And there was absolutely no light. This was a moonless night, probably overcast because I don't even remember seeing any stars. The only light within a mile was a 40 watt light bulb on the back porch of our house. Now, my grandpa was a carpenter, uh, carpenter and farmer, but he had hand-built a workshop. It was, if you can imagine a, a box shape, maybe 75, 80 feet long by about 60 feet wide. And on one side of that, the side that faced the road, he had scabbled on a lean-to shelter

• 6:42Speaker 06

  uh, to park his tractor and bale hay and, and stuff like that under. And on the very backside, um, he had built a, a pen for our horse off, off the very far backside of it. So I'm up riding my bicycle around his shop and barely see where I'm going. I was getting ready to come inside anyway. And something, and, and I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and tell you it was a bigfoot. I saw him two arms, two legs, 10 feet tall. No, that's not what I saw. But something gigantic and black, I mean, like jet black.

• 7:22Speaker 06

  Came out of the woods from behind the corner of his shop because the woods had grown up to right up to the back wall of the shop. It came out and it was way over my head. And I'm, you know, 10 years old, sitting on a bicycle. So I'm guessing at least seven, eight feet in the air. Came out and chased me back to the house. I pedaled that bicycle as hard as I could go toward that light bulb. And whatever it was, it scared me so bad. I dropped the bike, got my shoelaces tangled up in those old 1980s beater pedals. And I drug that bicycle by my bloody shins up the back steps and was beating on the back door of the house when my granddaddy came out with a shotgun.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  Now whatever it was, it stopped right at the corner. There's a, there was a little 10 by 12 storage building right off our back porch. And it stopped right at the edge of that because that's where the light stopped. You know, I tried to describe what happened and it was kind of, uh huh, yeah, uh huh, get, get in the house. But you're, you're exactly right. Um, you know, even years before that, when I was staying with my great grandparents, uh, I wasn't allowed to play outside without them supervising me. And we're talking even farther out into the county, even farther away from any other neighbors or any other, you know, anybody else, unless I was either in their supervision or right in front,

• 8:50Speaker 06

  in the front yard in front of their door so they could look out and see me. And I distinctly remember my great grandma saying, "You do not go near any of those woods on the edge of the yard because the booger will get you." Well, I didn't know what that meant. I just knew it was something out there I didn't want to get tangled up with. And then years later, in the last couple of years, when I started really looking into this stuff, well, lo and behold, what do people in Virginia call this thing? Wood booger. And it's my understanding, you know, several other geographic areas use that term. But, um, they always used to talk about a, a booger in the woods. And now I'm beginning to wonder, you know, that's probably what they were talking about.

• 9:34Speaker 06

  They just didn't want to, you know, immortally terrify me from going outside.

• 9:39Wes Germer?

  The thing that came after you when you were on your bike, do you remember any details about it beyond it being tall and big and black?

• 9:48Speaker 06

  No, um, like I said, as soon as it came through the limbs, I, I panicked and you know, my little 10 year old self pedaled just as hard as I could go for the back of the house. Now I will say, I do know it wasn't a black bear. As an adult, you know, more grown now, I know their habits. Yeah, bears will stand up on their hind legs, but no, they don't run for 70 or 80 feet non-stop on their hind legs. And whatever this thing was, and honestly, knowing what I know now, I don't think it was trying to catch me. Because everything I've ever seen, read, heard, you know, if, if it had wanted me, it could have got me.

• 10:31Speaker 06

  Um, you're not going to pedal a bicycle fast enough to get away from them. So I think it was either toying with me or it was intentionally trying to get me to leave where it was at and go back home. Um, it very possibly could have been a juvenile that was just, I won't say playful, but you know, kind of sporting with me.

• 10:54Speaker 06

  Um, but no, I mean, like I said, the, the moon wasn't even out that night and the only light we had was the, the back porch. And when I glanced over my shoulder, all I could see was like a black mass where there was no, you know, the, the light coming from behind me, looking backwards, obviously was hitting a few leaves and stuff, but all of that is just a black mass. And like I said, well above my head and I didn't stop and really study detail, if you know what I mean.

• 11:27Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I wouldn't have stopped either. You know, your grandparents talking about the boogers. Did they know what it was? I mean, was there any sort of conversation with them?

• 11:37Speaker 06

  Well, that, you know, that's, that in itself is what raised a little bit of suspicion in my mind here recently is because even after that, it wasn't talked about. You know, I would say something about it and we'd either change the subject or, you know, I kind of figured they were just dismissing it, thinking that I had came up with it on my own and was just using my imagination or whatnot. But I'm sorry, a child of any age, if they're using their imagination, they are not going to go to the extent of like turning their shins into hamburger on some bicycle pedals.

• 12:14Wes Germer?

  Do you remember any odd noises growing up or anything weird kind of happening?

• 12:20Speaker 06

  Yes. I mean, there, there would be, now you got to keep in mind, when I say odd noises, a lot of things are odd to a 10 year old or a five year old. Some things I can kind of more explain now. Um, not so much coyotes, but other types of wildlife at night. But I will say that, you know, from the time I was little, even to this day, I can, cause I still go back down there. I try to go camping at least three times a year. I always got the feeling, the sensation everybody talks about, about being watched. And sometimes you get that sensation even during broad daylight. The, it was more prevalent at night

• 13:04Speaker 06

  around the house I lived in. But if I went up to my great grandparents' house, which is about halfway to the actual proper community of Uari, you would get that feeling 24/7 if you were outside the house. But there, there's, it's kind of hard for me to explain to somebody who's never been to Uari. You get a different feeling when, when you drive into that area, you'll go through like the town of Troy or the town of Albemarle, the town of Mount Gillian. And it just feels like a small, really small town. But once you start getting out into the really rural and more mountainous parts of Uari, I, you

• 13:47Speaker 06

  know, I'm not one, I'm not a person who believes in energy, like psychic energy or, you know, crystals and things like that. But the, the energy, if that makes sense, it feels different. You can feel it change, just like you can feel the change in temperature walking inside from the outside when it's hot outdoors. It's, it's just, it's a sensation that I would have to say you got to experience on your own. But, but yes, growing up, I did hear noises I couldn't explain. Um, I won't so much say like the Ohio type howl, but we, you, I would hear some howling at night. And my granddaddy would always say, well,

• 14:31Speaker 06

  it's just some dogs. But, you know, here again, who, who's to say?

• 14:37Wes Germer?

  You know, last night when we were talking, you were talking about these dreams that you were having. And I was like, hmm, I don't know about that. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, you know, that's kind of a weird thing for a kid to dream about. Do you ever recall a time where you saw them when you were younger and maybe that's what caused their dreams?

• 14:57Speaker 06

  Well, now I do know from, and when I say no, this is based on other accounts that I've heard, just delving into the research on this whole thing. Um, I've heard several instances and one of them from one of my friends who had an encounter, several encounters at their home, uh, near Ashboro. Um, there's something, I, I won't say they target children, but in a way they do, because the, the experience he had, and I'm, I'm going to give him your email and have him and get in contact with you. But the experience he had, he said that

• 15:40Speaker 06

  the thing went to the bedroom window of where his niece was staying with him. Um, and I've heard several stories of where the window taps and the scratching on the walls and the name calling and things like that usually happen outside of a child's bedroom window. Now, I never had any like visual or audio experiences when I was that little and I'd never seen anything like that on TV. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about it last night after we talked. The first video I ever saw of Bigfoot, it was probably when I was, I don't know, maybe 12, 10, 11, 12 years old. And I saw the first, for the first

• 16:23Speaker 06

  time I saw the episode that, uh, Leonard Nimoy hosted. Can't remember the name of the show, but it was the old 1970s kind of quasi documentary that Leonard Nimoy narrated for him. But that was the first I'd ever heard of anything like that. And then of course you get into, I think it was the late seventies, early eighties, they had some of the, the, uh, to me they're laughable now, but the shows like Bigfoot and what was it? Bigfoot and Little Boy or something like that.

• 16:53Wes Germer?

  That's an interesting. So that was kind of your first introductory to it, to the subject. On this property, did you ever see the, the lights?

• 17:03Speaker 06

  No, I never saw that, but there, there's two caveats to this. Okay. My grandma, the, the one that I lived with, she was very straight laced. She did not like telling fables. She didn't like made up, you know, fictional stories or anything, even for entertainment. She was very straight laced. But my family does, we, we go back probably about 250 years, maybe even longer than that into this county. And the majority of my family originated around a community called Lovejoy. Matter of fact, my great, great granddaddy or great, great,

• 17:45Speaker 06

  great granddaddy actually started the church I grew up in. It was a Wesleyan church back in the 1700s. And then we had several other family members that were pastors of that church throughout the years. Well, my grandma was born is either 1920 or 1922. And growing up in that community, that was their church. And when her great uncle or grandpa was the pastor of that church, they, they did old school revivals. I mean, they would throw up tent cities around the church and have week long camp meetings. If you're standing on the property of the church and kind of look off across the cemetery, you can see

• 18:25Speaker 06

  the, the top of a mountain in the background. That's Buck Mountain. He was preaching a revival on the side of that mountain that she went to. She says she was 16 years old. And she said while he was preaching, he really got into it, started bearing down on it. And she, and here again, she straight laced. She doesn't, she did not believe in, you know, exaggerating or anything. She said while they were standing there, they saw a basketball sized ball of fire is what she called it. It was like an orange and red glowing ball that started at the top of the mountain and shot straight down past. And she said it made no sound

• 19:10Speaker 06

  whatsoever. She said, the only thing we felt was we saw the, the leaves and the limbs rustling from the wind as it went by, but it made absolutely no sound. She said it shot down. As soon as it got past us out of, out of sight, it was gone. We never saw it again. But you know, we can, we can go into all kinds of rabbit holes on this, um, which would probably be for another conversation because it has absolutely nothing to do with Sasquatch. But, um, there's some other history of that mountain too, that people usually find fascinating enough. They don't want to stop talking about it.

• 19:48Wes Germer?

  Yeah. Well, if you would tell me about it, you have my attention. We can come back to Sasquatch. If you don't mind, tell me about it.

• 19:55Speaker 06

  Oh yeah. Um, well, like I said, the, the name of the church is Lovejoy. It's a Methodist church. And if you go to their cemetery, over toward the fellowship hall side are three of my great, great granddaddies. Um, Jesse, John, and James Hewland, they're three brothers. They're buried in a common grave. And you can actually, if you Google it, I think you can still pull up a picture of their headstone, but it's got all three names. And at the bottom, the epitaph just says murdered. Long story short, my family, whether it be the Wesleyan pastor on up through the Methodist pastors into the 1800s, um, they all preached abolition.

• 20:38Speaker 06

  So when the civil war came along, you know, they did their duty. They, they did not deserve, they didn't, you know, shirk their duty. They went. Um, and back during the 1860s, the rules in the Confederacy were if you were a farmer, you were allowed a furlough long enough during harvest season to go home and get your crops in. And as soon as the crops ran, you had to come right back. Well, they served and I have found their names in multiple books. Moore's roster is one of them. So I can prove they, they existed. I can prove they served. But they decided that, you know, our great granddaddies preached

• 21:20Speaker 06

  abolition from the pulpit and you know, whichever side of the, the coin you believe as far as the, the whole slavery issue in the civil war, as far as the root cause, they decided they weren't going to participate in that. Um, they made it clear they were fighting for their home and that was it. So they didn't go back. Well, and, and I have seen the actual documentation from this. My grandma had it before she died and I was sitting there reading it and just couldn't let go of it. But during the, from 1860 to 1865, they had what was called the home guard, which was their version of the national guard. They kind of protected

• 22:01Speaker 06

  the home front and also quasi law enforcement. Well, they sent them looking for them and they tracked them for months and they kept dodging and ducking them and hiding. And matter of fact, we have one written account where the captain of the home guard came by their house, which literally still stands across the road from the church. Um, and spoke to, I believe it was Jesse's wife, Caroline and said, we found your husband and we shot him where his gallus is, cross his back. And you know, just terrorized them. And then lo and behold, the next night, here comes Jesse in the door. They lied to her. Well, eventually they did find all three of them and they took them up to the top of the mountain

• 22:43Speaker 06

  I was just talking about and executed them. Well, they brought them back to the church on the buckboard wagon and laid the bodies out on the altar. They didn't have coffins for them. So they just laid the bodies laying there and the blood, the story goes, the blood soaked into the altar and ran down and soaked into the hardwood floor of the church. Well, how do you prove that actually happened? Well, two things. My granddaddy grew up about five miles from that church and he took me to the house that he grew up in and showed me the barn that was in their yard. When that altar was torn out and replaced to get

• 23:25Speaker 06

  rid of the bloodstain, they used the wood to build the barn in the side of the field beside his house. And he's put his hands on it. And then also when my mom passed in 2015, I went down there to make the funeral arrangements and they had just gutted the church and restored it back to its 18, late 1800s motif. So I was talking to one of the ladies that's still in charge of the building and I was asking her about it. I was like, when y'all tore the carpet up, did you find anything? She said, you mean the bloodstains? I said, yeah. She said, oh yeah. It took them two weeks to send them out. So, but yeah, that I've always wondered if that is what precipitated the ball of fire that

• 24:09Speaker 06

  my grandma saw in the 1930s when he was preaching the revival. But, um, that you can, you can literally find hundreds of stories like that that come from the U R's and a lot of them, you can, if you dig hard enough, you can find some kind of basis or some kind of verification tool.

• 24:30Wes Germer?

  It's a tragic account, but it's fascinating. You're able to go back that far with your family in one area.

• 24:38Speaker 06

  If I can put my hands on it, I'm gonna have to see, cause my uncle is the oldest living member of my family. Now everybody else has died, but, um, if he's still got my grandma's personal effects from when she died, um, we have a copy of the original land grant from King George, Revolution times for the, the land that my family still owns around that church. And she had, I mean, just gobs and gobs of stuff that I would literally sit around and read for entertainment. I mean, she had, I had more than one great grandpa that was a magistrate for that county. And she had copies of stuff like, um, he had signed or swore out a warrant on a guy for cutting off the tail of another guy's mule.

• 25:23Speaker 06

  And then she had a copy of another warrant that he had taken out on another, on a midwife because she got drunk. And when she went to deliver the baby, she instead of cutting the umbilical cord, she cut the other thing and the baby died. So I, I mean, I, I bet you the folder of stuff that I used to look through was at least two inches thick.

• 25:45Wes Germer?

  Yeah. So cool to have a rich history like that. I mean, it's, you really are lucky. You know, my family, one side are Apaches. And so you can only go back so far. And then there's nothing. And on the other side, we were, uh, Templars. There's actually a castle, I think it's in Scotland or Wales, that bears my family's, on my mother's side, their name. But all that stuff is so hard to track down. It's so cool that, I mean, you're so blessed to have it in one area, all your family members right there. So years go by and you, you kind of start investigating Sasquatch. What, what made you investigate it?

• 26:27Speaker 06

  Well, yeah. Um, I guess the, the reason I started was I just got curious one day and I, I had seen a show on TV. It wasn't Sasquatch Chronicles. It was a documentary. I think I've seen every documentary ever made. This posted on YouTube at least 10 times. It's just always fascinated me since, you know, what about 10 years ago now? And the more I looked into it, the more rabbit holes I found and the more perspectives I saw. And I was like, I want to know what this stuff really is. So I wandered across the BFRO webpage and they've got it alphabetized and categorized cataloged. So you can look

• 27:09Speaker 06

  it up by state, then by county. So I pulled up my county. Well, out of a hundred counties in North Carolina, Montgomery County had like 15 reported sightings or reported encounters and all the other counties had like two, six, something like that. So I started thumbing through there, reading some of them. And I saw some names of locations I didn't recognize because when I, when I was growing up, that place didn't have anywhere near the attraction that it does now. Most of your attraction was local people or people from another county coming over to go to Baden Lake, Lake Tillery, um, go riding horses, boy scout activities,

• 27:52Speaker 06

  things like that. It didn't have the off-road four-wheeling, rock climbing, you know, um, bigfoot stuff that, that you've got now. But, um, I saw one of the accounts was from a, I think it was a church youth group leader in, what was it? 2014 or so? They said that they had a nighttime encounter with bipedal footsteps and things like that on the Supertree Loop Trail. And I was like, well, where is that? So I looked it up, pulled it up on a map. Yeah. It's about 300 yards straight line from my front yard. That triggered me. I was like, okay, now I've really got to know, I've got to find out what this is. And

• 28:36Speaker 06

  it's like I was telling you last night, on the backside of his workshop where I had that first encounter, he had scabbed on that, that lean to shelter. And on the back of it, he came off of it with probably, I don't know, 50, 75 foot pin for the horse. And you know, we're not talking a black stallion. We're talking a little fat little pony that weighed probably 800 pounds. But he built the walls, the fence out of chicken wire, you know, about five feet off the ground, four by four posts, things like that. And a stall door that opened up underneath that lean to shelter, we kept it shut with like

• 29:17Speaker 06

  a, a three-eighths log chain. And he'd build a little trough in there where you could just pour the, the sweet feed through the stall door and she would come up to the door and eat. But the, the second actual weird occurrence that I had, and this was also about when I was 12, um, we got up, went to go feed her one morning and she wasn't in her lot. And it was like, I panicked because that was, you know, my, that was my horse. So I went and grabbed him and we'd go out and start looking for her, couldn't find her anywhere. And then we started checking the fence because the first thing we noticed the stall door was still chained and locked. So we know she didn't get out or get let

• 29:58Speaker 06

  out. And then we started walking the perimeter of the fence and we're talking chicken wire. So a dog could easily mash or bend the wire if, if it hit it hard enough. We walked every square inch of that lot and not one section of that fence was disturbed. It wasn't mashed down. It wasn't pushed out at the bottom. There was no holes in it. Literally there was no way for her to get out. So we're like, how did eight or 900 pound animal get out of this lot without opening the stall door?

• 30:33Speaker 06

  And we were at a loss. So we didn't find her until the next day. All right. So like I said, this house is on the corner of a two lane road and a dirt road. If you go out to the very corner of that lot where the mailbox was and look west, kind of, well, look east toward Troy, there was a cut over for the power line that goes, that went up the side of a ridge coming off of that mountain, Horse trough mountain. And I looked up there and there she stands right on the top of the ridge. And I'm like, holy cow. So I yell at her. She comes charging down the saddle

• 31:17Speaker 06

  and gets to the highway and slips and falls and busts her butt on the yellow line. And then gets up and trots back to her stall. And from that day on, she really did not want to come out of that, that lot.

• 31:33Wes Germer?

  Strange. It's almost like something picked her up and put her over the fence.

• 31:38Speaker 06

  Yeah. And, and you know, we're thinking all different kinds of options and you know, what could have done that? But you know, in, in my mind, even now, I can't picture anything other than, you know, a Sasquatch that, that could have lifted her over that fence without disturbing it.

• 31:56Wes Germer?

  What did your grandfather say?

• 31:58Speaker 06

  He scratched his head. Now, he was not one to ever talk about anything like that. Um,

• 32:09Speaker 06

  I think he tried to avoid the whole subject, to be honest with you. Um, because he didn't want to get in any kind of discussions about unexplained or, you know, heaven forbid, talk about ghosts or anything like that. But, um, and like I said, you know, the entire time I was growing up, other than my great grandparents mentioning the word booger, that nothing was ever said. And the one time when, when that Leonard Nemo episode came on, he, he watched it with me, but he just kind of shook his head and smirked at it. Now, the incident where, you know, when I looked up the, the cut over for the, the

• 32:54Speaker 06

  power line, that ridge was within a couple hundred yards, I'm guessing of this Supertree Loop Trail.

• 33:02Speaker 06

  Um, it's, it's all right there together. But, but you know, that's really the last experience that I had until I had moved away. And then like five, was it five, six years ago? I went back on a camping trip and then I had an experience I will never forget. I didn't see anything, but I sure heard it. I had found a new campsite or a camp location on the, the Stanley County side. And I had taken my son and another group with me and we went to, it's a small family campground. And it's like right on the lake. So when you pull in this place, it's like this big loop drive

• 33:47Speaker 06

  that you, it comes in and out the same entrance and it just loops around. Everything on the outside of the loop is RV access. Everything on the inside of the loop is ground tents. They've got two, what they call cabins, but you know, it's about like a 10 foot storage building that's been converted with bunk beds and air, a wall unit air conditioner. So we decided to go tent camping that particular weekend. So threw up a cabin tent, just like a 10 man tent and the, the young lady I was with at the time and her kids and my son, they were all in the back room of the tent and I stayed in the front room. And about 10, 10:30 or 11 o'clock, I heard,

• 34:33Speaker 06

  and I hate to use the term bipedal because your mind automatically drifts to, to like a Sasquatch, but I heard something with two legs that walked between our tent and one of those cabins. So, you know, I'm, I'm at the ready with the, um, personal protection device. And it just meandered off, you know, nothing ever happened. So I'm laying there trying to go to sleep and I wake up about midnight. And I don't know why I just, I just popped awake. And about 1:30 in the morning, I heard what sounded like somebody took a Louisville Slugger bat,

• 35:18Speaker 06

  a wooden baseball bat and broke it over a slate rock and immediately, immediately behind that crack, you heard

• 35:31Speaker 06

  and I knew instantly, I knew what that was. It was a challenge huff. So I kind of leaned over my left shoulder and I asked my son, are you awake? He said, yeah. I said, did you just hear that? He said, oh yeah, I heard it. So about five minutes goes by, we didn't hear any rustling. We didn't hear any other sounds. About five minutes goes by and all of a sudden, whack.

• 36:00Speaker 06

  And, uh, okay. All right. Now I've got, I've got my protection ready and he's got his ready. So we sit there, I know a good two hours waiting, just waiting and nothing. Absolutely nothing. We got up the next morning, nothing had been messed with. You know, there was a, another pair of campers, maybe 75 feet from us. Um, they were perfectly fine. So can I prove it? No. But do I know what that sound was? You best believe it.

• 36:38Wes Germer?

  The next morning when you got up, were you able to find any footprints or anything around the tent or where you heard the noise?

• 36:46Speaker 06

  No, because where I, I could tell where it came from. It was off my left hand side, which was, you know, from our tent, once you cross over the, the gravel for the circle drive, um, and pass the first RV site or the only RV site on that side, you hit the wood line and it's nothing but thick under brush. And it was during the fall. So there was like two feet of dead leaf covering over the ground. I mean, I looked around in there, of course, and you know, I was, as soon as daylight came, I was over there looking just to see if I could see anything moving, but no, we never saw anything.

• 37:29Wes Germer?

  The grunt that you heard, did it remind you of a gorilla?

• 37:34Speaker 06

  Yeah. That, I mean, that's kind of how I would describe it, but

• 37:40Speaker 06

  with more force and more bass, if, if that makes sense. And it was,

• 37:49Speaker 06

  I, I hate to,

• 37:52Speaker 06

  I hate to impose tone on it, but the tone that I was receiving in that was, I'm here, I'm in charge and you don't belong. So, you know, and I didn't feel singled out by it because like I said, there were other campers there. There was the ones that I just mentioned across from us. And then there was a couple of other tent campers behind us, you know, maybe 75, 80 feet. But it, it definitely, it, it did not sound happy. And it did not sound like it was communicating with another one. It sounded like it was communicating with us. And you know, it was very deep, very guttural. Um, just

• 38:38Speaker 06

  almost angry. That's how I took it. That, that's what I perceived from that is like, yeah, I'm just letting you know I'm here and, uh, you don't belong here and I'd suggest you, you don't come in these woods.

• 38:53Wes Germer?

  Yeah. I've theorized over the years. I think that grunt is an acknowledgement. Like I know you're there. You know, I'm here. And kind of like you said, you know, don't mess up.

• 39:06Wes Germer?

  Um, I was kind of curious on the next incident that happened. I know you had sent me these footprints and they're actually pretty good foot impressions that you captured.

• 39:17Speaker 06

  Yeah. Um, now I will say in between the footprints and, and the, the challenge huffs, I did carry my son back and this was, I think it was around the time I really started looking into this because that's how I found out where Supertree Loop was. But I carried him camping and we were looking for an easy spot to access. I didn't want to drive forever. Uh, there, there's one spot where there's a main turnoff off of 2427, right at the top of the hill. And I said, let's check this out. So I kind of looked at the, the courtesy map up front. You're allowed to drive in past that. And I drove in, I found one little trail that cut off the

• 40:02Speaker 06

  side. It's like, this is kind of convenient. So we pulled in there. We, um, there was a, like a footpath where you can walk through and actually go up to the top of Horse trough mountain. And we, we pulled in there and I picked out a spot where we could scratch out a primitive site and set up a fire ring and everything where we wouldn't be in the way of foot traffic coming through. I didn't, I didn't realize until after that weekend, when we got back home, I started looking into it. Yeah, we were right there where the youth leader had said that he was hearing bipedal footsteps at two in the morning. So yeah, I was like, well,

• 40:45Speaker 06

  too late to be unnerved by that now. But the, um, the footprints, uh, the, the pictures I sent you, that was year before last, uh, around October, it was in the fall, our fall trip. This is when I'd fallen in with some friends that actually do legit investigations, you know, when they go camping, they, they always invite us to go, um, and they'll go out at, at least one night of the weekend that we're there. And we go deep into the forest, um, up around if, if anyone knows where the Eldorado outpost is. That's like the epicenter of the Bigfoot

• 41:24Speaker 06

  stuff now. Um, Can Break Horse Camp is kind of back behind that a couple of miles. And we'll go deep, you know, down some dirt roads and just pull off and shut the truck off and just see what we can hear, see what we can find. We started the, the first trip where I went with them, we did that. Uh, we, you know, of course, we did not see an eight foot humanoid furry come walking down the road, no. But we did get rocks thrown at the truck. And we did hear what I will say

• 42:03Speaker 06

  are communication sounds, whistles. Um, we got a couple of tree knocks while we were out there. And the, the, the whistling and the mimicking of other animal sounds, especially, uh, they appear to prefer bard owl sounds to communicate. That became more frequent and faster. And we decided to go back to camp. So we went back to camp and, you know, they've been doing this a lot longer than I have. So I'm kind of leaning on their experience and their, you know, take on this. And they said, yeah, I think we made them mad because they followed us back. As soon as we

• 42:47Speaker 06

  got back to our campsite, young lady I took with me that, that year, she said, I'm glad you're back because I've been in this tent and something has been moving around behind our tent since about 20 minutes after you left. And it's making these weird sounds. It sounds like an owl. I was like, yeah, I know. We've been listening to them too. So it started getting closer. And then there wasn't just one, there was two, and then there was three. And in different locations, and you could tell they were communicating back and forth. Well, you know, anybody could say, well, that was truly just a bunch of bard owls. But I, I truly don't believe it was, um, because

• 43:31Speaker 06

  of the way that they were bouncing back and forth. Um, I've, I've been hunting many times. I have practiced very thoroughly myself using bard owl calls as a locator calls to hunt turkey. And you, they, they are very believable. But if you know what a true bard owl sounds like, you can also pick out little differences when they don't quite get it right. Um, and one, one of the instances where there were, there were two of them, kind of sounded like they were posted up near the entrance to the campground. And one of them, he was pretty believable, you know,

• 44:11Speaker 06

  woo, woo. The other one though, I don't think he ought to attempt it because it sounded like Barry White doing an owl call, woo, woo, woo. I was like, no, that's not a bard owl. And they kept getting closer and moving. And, you know, they would be over here, then they were over here, and they were just all moving around. And so, yeah, I said, okay, you get in the van, we're gonna sleep in the van tonight and see what happens. Well, we got up the next morning, and the whole time I was expecting, you know, the van start rocking, you know, in the middle of the night or something. They didn't really mess with us. But I got up the next morning,

• 44:55Speaker 06

  and I went walking around just to see. And that's when I found those tracks that I sent you the pictures of. They were about 15 feet from our tent. And we parked right in, parked the van right in front of the tent, but they were, those tracks were about 15 feet from our, the corner of our tent. So, um, to me, and I wish I'd had some type of a, a ruler or a tape or something where I could have given an indication in the picture about the size. Talking to them about it, it looks like it was probably a juvenile, because we're not talking a 20 or 22 inch track. They were much smaller than that. But they were way, way too wide to be a human footprint.

• 45:41Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and I'll post the pictures underneath this episode of what you sent me. They're pretty good impressions. They're definitely wider than what you would expect from a human. It's kind of hard. I mean, it looks like there's more than one track. I don't know if I'm looking at one or multiple.

• 45:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, there, there were several, and I tried to, now, you know, some of the pictures are multiples of the same single track. But I was trying to get different angles because this was early morning. And I was trying to catch the sunlight right, so it would accentuate the shadows around like the, the toe prints. So you could see more definition in it. But yeah, there, there was at least four or five separate distinct tracks.

• 46:26Wes Germer?

  I find it interesting that they followed you guys back to the campsite. Have you been back there since this happened?

• 46:34Speaker 06

  Uh, it, it, we try to go at least two, if, if possible, three times a year. We usually go spring, summer, and then a trip in the fall, which we've got scheduled for the end of this month.

• 46:46Wes Germer?

  The times that you did go back, had anything else happened?

• 46:51Speaker 06

  Not to me, but the, the two that, that we go with, they're, they're the ones that own the horses. So, you know, they invite us. But they've been several times that I wasn't able to be able to go. Um, but they've had very explicit experiences. They, uh, she messaged me one night and said, we just heard the mother of all screams. It, it was like, you, you know, some of these stories you listen to, they're like, um, they describe it as a thousand dogs at once, mixed with a blood curdling scream. And she said, based on the, the volume and the

• 47:35Speaker 06

  proximity, she said it was just inside the wood line because they, they stay in a horse camp or a horse trailer, um, one with a weekend or up front. But she said, we heard it. She said, I felt it. The, the vibration from the audio, she said, I felt it. And then they've got several pictures. Um, there was one where they were actually riding their horses during the day and turned around, one of the horses got spooked and took a picture over her husband's shoulder. And there's, there's a definite face there.

• 48:09Wes Germer?

  In this area where you go with these people, had they come face to face with them before?

• 48:15Speaker 06

  Yes. Um, not like close enough to reach out and touch you. And, and I'm also going to give them your email, um, and let you, because they, they've honestly had more up close and personal experiences than I have. And yes, they have seen full figure, arms, legs, torso, face, the whole nine yards. They, they have, they have experienced that. And I would really want them to talk to you and tell you what they found. But the other person that we normally go with, he's the one that actually started the, the investigative group. Um, I won't name it,

• 48:55Speaker 06

  but I'll let him talk to you. But he's, he's got a ton of photographs, videos. And I've, I've got a couple that if, if he's okay with it, I'll send to you. But you can, you can see the face.

• 49:10Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I would absolutely love to chat with them. I'm kind of curious on what you think Bigfoot is, but was there anything else that happened before we get into that?

• 49:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I, I know it's not going to be a popular opinion. Um, it is what it is. But, you know, I personally, I feel like we have rock solid, just concrete proof of what they are. The lead of this group that I'm with, he and the, the guy that we normally go camping with, they've been out several times to a, a certain location that's not far from the URA community. And they, they set up a bait site. You know, they, they saw people baiting them with different things. Some of the videos you see of like the British Columbia and Vancouver and Ape Island,

• 50:01Speaker 06

  some of the other, the videos you see, they saw them using bait jars. So let's try it. So they started baiting them and they started taking it. So then they had the idea of, okay, let's put a tracker in it and fix the lid. So it's not easy to get off and see what happens.

• 50:18Speaker 06

  So they took what was similar to an Apple AirTag. It was a different brand, but same principle, and put it in a jar of peanut butter. And basically JB welded the lid on so you couldn't get it off easily. So the, the first one, he sent me pictures of it. It looks like they had bit it open. So the, the lid, it looks chewed on, gnawed on, but not like canine teeth, not like hog's teeth, not like any other animal. These were, the, the picture I saw, they were like broad teeth, almost like human teeth.

• 50:58Speaker 06

  But the second one is the, the one that just summed it up for me. Because he put the tracker in it. And he did a live, like a, a Facebook live video. And I'm sitting here at my home in the central part of the state while they're over his home in the north end of U R A. Watching this, let's, let's see what this thing does. So I'm watching live as they take the bait jar and start moving. The arrow starts moving on the satellite overlay of, of this tracker. And the, the pictures I sent you is, is, it's very obvious, you know, what, what they did with it.

• 51:42Speaker 06

  They drew what I thought, I personally, I thought they were drawing a pentagram with it. But when I looked it up the next day, I started Googling it because it looked like either a really poor rendition of one. Or like it was supposed to be something else. So I, I started Googling it and that's the other screenshot I sent you. Uh, I found an article on, I think it was Wikipedia, but it's actually called the sigil of Satan. And it's, you know, similar to a pentagram, but two of the, the points are extremely exaggerated, elongated. And it, it, you know, to me it's too much to be coincidence.

• 52:23Speaker 06

  Now, I, I know somebody's going to hear that and say, okay, well, they went out and they moved a jar. Okay, we're talking about an area. That we had to, because they took me there after this happened. We had to hike almost two miles in. You couldn't drive to it. So we hiked about two miles in and we're talking from where we went in to when we got to the bottom. I'm guessing was about seven or eight hundred feet drop in, in kind of a valley. And dense, dense forest, dense underbrush. Um, where, you know, a mix of pine and hardwood, but you're talking trees, 60, 70 feet tall.

• 53:09Speaker 06

  That's, that's not humanly possible because I watched him sit here and draw this pattern using that tracker. Over a span of about 30, 45 minutes. And I'm sorry, but I don't know any top shape athlete in the world that can do that. Um, especially up and down 700 feet of elevation change. And well, you know, somebody did it with a drone. Well, sorry, you got trees that are 60, 70, 80 feet tall and they're densely packed. No, you can't fly a drone 10 feet without hitting a tree.

• 53:48Speaker 06

  So I personally, I feel like they are descendants of the Nephilim or Raphaim. You know, the, the one friend that I've got that's in charge of this group, he is, he is an ordained pastor. And we have researched this stuff and looked into it and talked about it and he's prayed about it. And, you know, we, we just cannot come up with any other logical explanation.

• 54:14Wes Germer?

  And for the audience, I'll, I'll post a picture of the satellite image of how this thing ran. And, but what you're describing is the pattern it ran in kind of gave you the impression it was this weird symbol.

• 54:29Speaker 06

  Correct, correct. And you, you know, each person has to make up their mind what they, you know, what they believe. But you know, it's to, to me, it's solidified. It's, it's it, that's it. Because like I said, every time I went outside as a youth, I felt that sensation of being watched, day or night. Especially at night, but day or night. And a lot of times I would get like an oppressive feeling. Like whatever's watching me didn't mean me any goodwill.

• 55:07Speaker 06

  So.

• 55:09Wes Germer?

  Yeah, when you look at the pattern, this thing was running with the tracker. It's weird movement for anything really, a human and animal. Uh, they're not 90 degree angles, but they're very sharp like a, um.

• 55:25Wes Germer?

  Almost like it was making a star. It's weird. Did, did it eventually drop the tracker?

• 55:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, you, if you look at where, okay, there's, there's two ends of a point that don't connect. There, it's like open ended. That, that final point, that's, that's where it stopped. I don't, I don't know if they got the tracker out and destroyed it, swallowed it. I, I don't know, but that's the, that's the last location it was given and never saw it again.

• 55:57Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's, it's a weird pattern. I'll give you that. I mean, I'm looking at it right now. It's, it's odd. So you're kind of thinking these creatures are Raphim?

• 56:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, either, either descendants, you know, obviously not the Nephilim, but it, they're descendants, either Nephilim, Raphaim, Anakim.

• 56:18Speaker 06

  Um, because if you go back to Genesis, you know, it says in the days of Noah and after. So, you know, these being part spirit, part flesh. You know, that would explain a lot of things that people are still scratching their head about, um, you know, especially things like. Okay, so why has never, why has no one ever caught a really sharp image? You know, and, and we're not discounting the Patterson Gimlin film. But why, why don't we see, you know, really sharp, clear images? Yep, there's no doubt that's one. Why, why have we never seen a body? Why has nobody ever produced a body? Why, why, why not this? Why not that?

• 57:03Speaker 06

  And, you know, in, in my belief and in my mind, that, that explains a good bit of that. You know, especially when you consider the fact that, you know, the Raphim being descendants of fallen angels. You know, they, they can do things humans cannot do.

• 57:21Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's hard to say. There is a lot of weird stuff that goes on in this topic. For the most part, people are running into stuff that is very physical. And that's what causes a lot of the terror, but there's a lot of weird things that happen in people's encounters that seem more paranormal. Makes you wonder too about their behavior, like in that account when you were young. You know, if that would have been a bear, it would have just mowed you down. It's on or off. If it's pissed and it's going to come out, you're in trouble. And whatever that thing was, it didn't act like a bear.

• 57:55Speaker 06

  And, and all the beer, all the bears that I have seen in an aggressive mode, you hear something. You, you hear that bear groan or whine. Um, I won't really call it a roar because, you know, we don't have grizzlies or Kodiaks around here, but you know, they're, they're going to be vocal. And this thing was not. That's why I think it was either toying with me or using me for practice. Because, you know, like you say, obviously the, the speed with which these things move and their sheer strength. If it wanted me, a 10 year, 10 or 11 year old boy, yeah, I, I would have been gone.

• 58:36Wes Germer?

  You know, I've gone down that same line of thinking as you are. And I often wonder at times, you know, is there a set of rules that they have to play by? Cause there's a set of rules in everything, even in poltergeist and ghost encounters. There's always a set of rules. And it seems like the only time I've ever heard of anyone ever getting hurt by Sasquatch. And of course there could be other accounts that I don't know about that could destroy my theory because the dead don't talk. But the only time I've ever heard of anyone ever really getting hurt by Sasquatch is when they engage with them. You know, they're throwing rocks at you, so you pick up rocks and start throwing them back.

• 59:20Wes Germer?

  It seemed like the moment you engage with them, all bets are off. And it's just kind of a theory.

• 59:26Speaker 06

  And that's one of the first things they, one of the first things I asked them when I started going with them. And one of the first things they told me, you, you really, you don't have that much to worry about when we go out. Because they're going to warn you first. They're going to try to scare you, but they're not going to just come out and grab you off, off the get go. Um, you know, they told me that, you know, when they do start doing things like throwing rocks and tree knocks. And, you know, doing stuff like challenge huffs and things like that. They're trying to tell you, you're in our backyard and we don't want you here. You need to leave.

• 1:00:07Wes Germer?

  If your theory is correct, and that's what they are, does it concern you? That's what you're going out chasing at night?

• 1:00:16Speaker 06

  Well, and, and this kind of ties back into what got me started investigating it to begin with.

• 1:00:24Speaker 06

  I wouldn't really consider myself an investigator. Um, I, you know, I, I wanted to know what they are and what they do and things like that. Um, when I first started and, and yes, the answer to your question is yes, it does concern me. Um, but it concerns me more about myself than it concerns me about them. And there's, there's two sides to that coin. Um, what got me in it to begin with was I want to know what the faith implications of this stuff is because you know, I had the Bigfoot t-shirts and I had the Bigfoot ornaments and I had the Bigfoot stickers and this and that and the other. I was just all in it, you know?

• 1:01:10Speaker 06

  And I was like, I, I had seen something about them being descendants of the Nephilim. And that started the thinking process. So I reached out to a friend of mine to see if they knew anything or had heard anything. And I said, no, I, I don't really know anything about that, but I know who you can call. And that's when she referred me to this pastor that I'm now best friends with. And we talked at great length, our first conversation, first time we ever spoke on the phone. That night we talked about two hours. And, you know, he expressed his thoughts about what they might be. And, you know, over the course of the, the next three or four years since we've known each other,

• 1:01:55Speaker 06

  that's when we came to arrive at the, the consensus that of what we believe now. But what concerns me is from a Christian perspective for myself.

• 1:02:10Speaker 06

  I, I got rid of all my paraphernalia, my t-shirts, my stickers and things like that. Because, you know, to me, I feel like when I, when I get into that level of it, I'm promoting or celebrating evil and I can't do that. But, um, you know, I leave it up to each person to each their own. You know, there's a lot of people that think that that's way off base. They think there's some kind of missing link. They think there's some kind of undiscovered aid, there's some kind of hybrid.

• 1:02:41Speaker 06

  You know, and really it's, it's extremely difficult to convince anybody of, of one thing or another.

• 1:02:52Speaker 06

  Because of each individual person's background, each individual, each individual person's beliefs, um, what they've experienced or haven't experienced. And, you know, for somebody who's only seen it on TV and never had any type of experience themselves, it's, it's kind of hard to convince them of anything. You know, I personally, I feel like I've got all the proof I need and I don't mess with them. And, you know, he, he doesn't go out and do like field investigations and research like he used to. And, you know, I, I let him speak for himself, um, to, you know, talk directly to you.

• 1:03:31Speaker 06

  But he, he has told me several experiences they've had where they, they went out in, in doing an investigation and, you know, deep in the woods, they went in on four wheelers and the things tried to flank them. And he said, we got out there as quick as we could because, you know, nobody knows for certain what will stop them, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, I mean, they can get aggressive. If, if I'm correct and they are descendants of fallen angels, that makes them evil by nature.

• 1:04:10Speaker 06

  Okay. One thing, dealing with spirits and the, the unseen realm and things like that. Yeah, they can see you. They can see you physically. But there's one thing that they can also see. And if you're, and, and, and here again, I'm not trying to upset anybody, but if you are what we call washed in the blood, they can see that blood. And they know where they can go and where they have to stop. So that's, that's just, that's how I feel about it. Now, I'm not saying, you know, obviously if I'm dumb enough to walk out in the middle of a four lane highway and stand there, God's not going to keep me from getting hit by a tractor trailer.

• 1:04:55Speaker 06

  But, you know, and I, I personally, that's why I believe that they have never gotten any closer to me than that.

• 1:05:04Wes Germer?

  Yeah. And you could be right. I mean, as far as what they are, like I said, what people run into is very physical. But there's another side to the subject to where a lot of weird stuff goes on, a lot of paranormal stuff goes on and it kind of makes you scratch your head a little bit. But I sure appreciate you taking the time to come on and share your experiences. And it was, it was a real honor having you on. I enjoyed chatting with you.

• 1:05:30Speaker 06

  Well, it, it has for me too, and I really appreciate you having me on.

• 1:05:35Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, Mike. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out SasquatchChronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.