The #1 Personality Trait That Made These Business Moguls +$450M

Episode 555: Shaan Puri (https://twitter.com/ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (https://twitter.com/theSamParr) break down the ruthless mindsets the top 1% of business moguls have in common. Want to see Sam and Shaan’s smiling faces? Head to the MFM YouTube Channel and subscribe - http://tinyurl.com/5n7ftsy5 — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (1:00) Egon Durban of Silver Lake (15:00) The methods of Ari Emanuel (20:00) The making of Dana White and UFC (37:00) Insane habits of the Fertittas brothers (40:00) Sam's loyalty complex (44:00) Other f*ck you qualities (46:00) Knowing your pucker number (48:30) How cheap is your happiness? — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. — Other episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto • #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  Egan is great. He has a very aggressive bedside manner. An aggressive bedside manner is like the nicest way possible of calling the guy a dick. This guy's definitely an asshole. And you know, they're like, oh, you know, it's like, he's just very direct. He's very, he's very honest. He's a straight shooter. And those are all just ways of being like, this guy will trample you.

• 0:29Shaan Puri?

  What's up, Sam? Are you, I don't know if you're ready, but I'm going to ratchet up the intensity a little bit here. I'm going to start high intensity on the podcast. I'm going to talk about some high intensity individuals. Would you like to hear about some high intensity individuals?

• 0:44Sam Parr?

  I wore my high school Letterman jacket. If you haven't noticed, I'm shocked you haven't made fun of me. So I'm ready for high intensity. If you can't tell, I look like a, like the big man on campus.

• 0:54Shaan Puri?

  You look like Al Bundy right now, like just dreaming about the good old days. So I don't know if you're ready for this.

• 1:00Sam Parr?

  I want to be, I wish I could have took state. That's the vibe I'm in. And so I'm ready for some intense stuff.

• 1:06Shaan Puri?

  I'm going to tell you about some people that I think you know of, a couple of them, I think you know a lot about. But they're all tied together and they are all what I will call all in individuals.

• 1:18Sam Parr?

  They're all insane.

• 1:19Shaan Puri?

  They're all kind of insane and they're insane in the same way, which is that they are all the way in on what they're doing. And I was reading their stories and I was kind of inspired. They're all very different stories. But then I realized, no, no, no, it's actually the same story. It's about being all in. Okay. So who are these people? First, I want to start with a guy named Egan Durbin. I think you know who Egan Durbin is, but I don't know. Do you know his full story?

• 1:44Sam Parr?

  I don't know his full story. He kind of is shrouded in mystery a little bit. I know that he's been on top of the game since he was probably 30 or 35. And he kind of controls, it seems like almost LA a little bit.

• 1:57Shaan Puri?

  A little bit. Yeah. So he is the managing director of Silver Lake. And Silver Lake is a giant private equity investor that invests in technology. So they have 72 billion in assets under management, which is, I'm pretty sure that's bigger than every venture fund combined.

• 2:15Sam Parr?

  Did you say 72?

• 2:16Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, 72. So if you take out the Vision Fund, I'm pretty sure this is bigger than like almost all VCs combined. Okay. So who is this guy? And, uh, you know, he's got a crazy track record I want to talk through, but like, first I just want to give you a few quotes again. About these all in individuals. And I give you these quotes because even though I don't do anything like this guy, I'm not a fund manager, I'm not a managing director of a private equity fund, I have no desire to be so. I do see some of these descriptions of him. And I'm like, it'd be nice to be called that. It'd be nice to have that be a true thing, somebody could say about me. And sometimes you just gotta hear it. You just gotta hear that level 12 exists for you to even like unlock that part of your brain. Okay, so let me tell you some things. So he goes,

• 2:59Shaan Puri?

  he goes to school, goes to Georgetown, he goes to Morgan Stanley, and then he is known immediately in the like banking world, they interviewed some people and they go, he came in as an entry level junior guy, right, early twenties. And they go, Egan was immediately comfortable at the grownups table. And they go, he just carried himself very differently. It's not that he had the experience. It's not even that he was smarter than anybody. But he carried himself like I belong in that conversation and I'm going to show up that way. And I'm not gonna just like label myself as a as a junior here. And I'm just here to learn. I'm just happy to be here. Didn't ever have that energy. The next thing that I heard, Egan is great. He has a very aggressive bedside manner. And aggressive bedside manner is like the nicest way possible of calling

• 3:43Shaan Puri?

  the guy a dick. This guy's definitely an asshole. And you know, they're like, oh, you know, it's like, he's just very direct. He's very, he's very honest. He's a straight shooter. And those are all just ways of being like, this guy will trample you. And aggressive bedside manner is the next thing I learned. So 1999, he leaves his banking, the banking world to join Silverlake. And he's like, I think technology, internet, this is 1999, the dot com boom is happening. He's like, I think this is the next big thing. I'm gonna go here. So he goes and he's like, he does a very smart career move. And if you see this career move, you know, this person's a winner, which is, they join a thing that's working. But instead of staying at the mothership, they're like, hey, what's the next frontier? And they're like, oh, we need to expand into

• 4:25Shaan Puri?

  Europe. He's like, cool, you got like plans or like a person in charge of that? They're like, uh, not yet. We want to do that next year. And we're gonna do a search to find somebody. He's like, cool, I'll move there now and I'll do it. And so he moves to Europe and he builds out the whole European business.

• 4:41Sam Parr?

  For investing in European tech companies.

• 4:43Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. And one of the big tech companies that he invested in Europe is Skype. So Skype was a European company. Skype had already had its run up, but then it had, um, you know, kind of faltered. And so he partners with A16Z at one point and he buys Skype out for 1.9 billion dollars. And people were like, this is like, it's hard to turn a technology company around. It's kind of on the decline. It's riddled with lawsuits right now. This is a messy buy. And he goes in and he basically is like, all right, we're going to do two things. We're going to hire a great CEO. We're going to settle all these lawsuits and we're going to actually invest in making our product better. Cause the product's just been atrophying for whatever, for so long. And so he immediately settles the lawsuits, hires a great CEO, starts with investing in the product.

• 5:26Shaan Puri?

  And in 18 months, he sells the thing all cash to Microsoft for eight and a half billion dollars. So 1.9 to eight and a half billion. He basically triples their money, but on a like billion dollar base, like principal amount. And so immediately makes a name for himself after doing the Europe thing with that. And he's doing this at a time when there's like a bit of a power struggle at Silver Lake.

• 5:49Sam Parr?

  And by the way, he's only like 35 at this point.

• 5:52Shaan Puri?

  I don't know how old he is exactly. Yeah. He's probably, let's see. Yeah. He's probably 30, 30 or early 30s is my guess. So 2008, uh, financial crisis happening and the founder of Silver Lake, this guy Glenn Hutchins, one of the founders. And he's like this crazy guy. If you go watch interviews of him, he's like mustached. He comes into the office with like barefoot. He never wears shoes. He's kind of like one of those like, you know, one with nature founder type guys, but he's in private equity, which is usually like suits and, uh, you know, cut, you know, cutthroat type of guys.

• 6:22Sam Parr?

  By the way, I think the other guy, I think all three of the founders are like hippies. The other one, Roger, uh, uh, Macamie, I think his name is. Do you know who he is?

• 6:31Shaan Puri?

  I didn't look him up too much, but yeah, I saw him.

• 6:33Sam Parr?

  He's a little bit of a hippie, like he's in like a Grateful Dead cover band. Like if you like more people know him, I think as the as a musician than founding this multi-billion

• 6:42Shaan Puri?

  And they kind of had to be because if you're if you're in the 90s and you're doing technology, then you're early, right? And you're early because you're a believer in something and you're usually an early adopter. You're not you usually it's like the MBAs come later, right? The the business school kids come later and when's when's the opportunity is already defined.

• 6:58Sam Parr?

  Which is crazy because Silver Lake now is known as this like buttoned up place.

• 7:01Shaan Puri?

  Of course, as as as is Microsoft now and Facebook now and all the things that at one time was just like college kids just living in a hacker house type of thing. So 2008, financial crisis happens. That guy Glenn, he's getting real stressed out. He's like, I just need to take a step back. Egan Durbin's like, I'm here. I've been here. I'm ready for this. And so he starts to step forward. He had just done the big, he just does the big Skype deal. So he's kind of riding the the wind of that. That's that's like the big news, basically, in the in the industry. They're they're out to raise a fund and he's like, I'll help you raise that fund. You can use this tracker in my name and I'll be one of the but I need to see it at the top. And so there's a bit of a power struggle. The other founders don't really want to step back. He wants to see at the table. Power struggle. There's sort

• 7:46Shaan Puri?

  of the coup and Egan and four new guys basically become the new managing directors and the founders basically all end up stepping back.

• 7:54Sam Parr?

  But a PE firm, there's not like one owner. Our PE firms a little bit like law firms where there isn't ever like an owner, but as you rise, you get an equity stake. And so it almost becomes a partnership, not like a

• 8:05Shaan Puri?

  It's a partnership either way, but usually you raise a new fund and when you raise a new fund, you define who are going to be the how is that pie going to get split up? And so as they raise fund after fund, the guys who were the main principles of the first might now have a smaller stake because the new people who are doing all the work are going to have the big stake in the new fund. So that's kind of what happened. So anyways, he gets it. And then he starts doing just crazy aggressive stuff. So just if you hear this guy's strategy, here's what he says. So in 16 years, they've basically grown the thing like crazy since since that all happened. They've, they've, you know, added like, I don't know, 25, 30 billion of, of assets under management during that time. And he says, my goal is to be the best risk adjusted, risk

• 8:47Shaan Puri?

  adjusted investor, tech investor in the world. What I'm trying to do is find one or two bets per year. I'm looking for all in bets, opportunities that I can't say no to. One or two bets per year, and that's it. I spend my whole year just trying to find one deal that is worth doing. And then when he finds it, he just pushes all the chips in. So he did this like, with Alibaba, they put in like, a whole bunch of money at 35 billion in market cap. And then they six X their money from there because Alibaba became a multi hundred billion dollar market cap company. And he was like, just at the time, they're like, we see this as a Google sized opportunity. And this is like, this is the Google of China. We need to be in this. And other people thought 35 billion was pretty overvalued at the time. He didn't think so. Another example of this is he went to some conference and he spoke on stage.

• 9:31Shaan Puri?

  And he's like, yeah, I don't usually do this, but I, you know, whatever, it'll be worth it. I'm sure. So he gets off stage and he bumps into Michael Dell backstage. First time he meets the guy. About a year later, he does the biggest tech buyout deal in the ever, which was taking Dell private, where it's like a multi billion dollar buyout where they took it private and ended up, you know, revamping it. It was the biggest deal, I think, ever at the time. He's also made some pretty like crazy bets. So some of the, some of the, some of the crazier things this guy's done. So first, I'll give you some personality crazy things. So he sucked at golf, but he wanted to be good. He's like, golf is like, you know, the businessman's sport. And I want to be good. So do you know what he did to get good at golf?

• 10:12Sam Parr?

  No.

• 10:13Shaan Puri?

  Have you heard the story?

• 10:14Sam Parr?

  No.

• 10:15Shaan Puri?

  So they had a gym for all the like employees or analysts at the company. And he just goes and he just locks the gym, shuts the gym down. He's like, there's no more gym. I'm going to convert this into like, kind of like over a weekend or whatever, he converts the gym into a golf practice, like a practice facility essentially. And then the employees like, hey, where do we, whatever to our gym? Like that was a key perk. Where do we go now? He's like, I don't know, go across the street, go ask BlackRock if you could use theirs. So for years, the analysts all went across the street to other firms like, hey, can we, we use your gym? Or he can turn it into his own private golf simulator. We can't do it anymore.

• 10:49Sam Parr?

  That's kind of an asshole move, right?

• 10:51Shaan Puri?

  Kind of an asshole, kind of an aggressive move.

• 10:53Sam Parr?

  I mean, what it is, I wonder what his employees said. Like, hey,

• 10:58Sam Parr?

  That's kind of lame, right? Like, what about us?

• 11:00Shaan Puri?

  Now he's like eight handicapped golfers. He's got memberships at golf clubs around the world. That's the ending of that story. Another one, he's kind of like, um, he gets criticized because he kind of wants like power in, uh, like the Hollywood world. Like you said, I think he's like a power player in LA. I don't know if that's true or not, but he became the biggest backer of WME. He also did a bunch of other things like the joke was, you know, he's buying things so he can get, you know, access to the Oscars. Like this guy is just like an absolute, you know, uh, sort of like savage individual. Um, another thing that he said, so he goes, he goes, I'm not trying to take the most risk, but I am trying to be very concentrated in my bets. He says, it just the way he phrased this, I like, he goes, we get paid to hit singles and doubles. Then we steal third and we come in, we come into home on a pass ball.

• 11:45Shaan Puri?

  And it's just a different mindset than I'm trying to hit home runs. He's like, no, no, we hit singles and doubles. Then through our kind of good operations, we steal third. And then we, we, we get to score, we get to home on a pass ball, but just basically like, you know, the market kind of continues to grow and we benefit from that is, is how I read into that. So I really liked that. He was, he did not like, people were like, you haven't done any investments recently. Uh, this was back in like 2021 and he was like, I think everything in tech is overvalued. All the unicorns, I think it's going to be really rough for them. He goes, every private tech company in the world right now, if you combine them is $350 billion. If I could buy that whole asset class, I would, I would do it tomorrow because I'm pretty sure that that will two or three X. But picking any individual company is really hard. Companies that are valued at a billion dollars,

• 12:30Shaan Puri?

  they might not go down just 30% on a correction. It'll go down to zero. There will be no bid for these companies, which is kind of what, what exactly played out in the coming year.

• 12:40Shaan Puri?

  And so he stayed away from late stage tech. So I just really thought this guy was great.

• 12:42Sam Parr?

  He's done a few other deals that are interesting. So in April of 2020, so two months into the pandemic, he invested a billion dollars into Airbnb. I don't remember the exact valuation, but my wife worked at, worked there at the time. And at the time, we were at home thinking, oh, well, Airbnb is going out of business. They, that, that whole company is dead. And they, and when they invested, it was crazy. And I think it was an, what was an $18 billion valuation?

• 13:07Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it was something like that. It was like somewhere between like 10 and 20. And it was also like, he structured it intelligently. I think, I think there was like, it was like debt, they had like, You know, like a warrant or something like that. It was like a good structure. I don't, I don't know. They didn't release all the details, but the one interesting thing was he got criticized because he had never met Brian Chesky, the CEO. He made the investment sort of sight unseen and injected a bunch of capital to the business when it needed it. People were like, that was a, is that a rash move? People doubted it. But Airbnb has done fantastic, has done fantastic since then. You know, he owns, you know, he, you know, they, they own $500 million of Manchester City Soccer Club. Like they own a lot of different stuff.

• 13:44Shaan Puri?

  Which is kind of, you know, I don't know. It's interesting to me. Let me tell you one other thing about this guy. So he said something that I found interesting. They talked about the WME deal and he goes, I love Ari Emanuel. He goes, I talk to Ari Emanuel every single day, which is just crazy. Like, I don't even talk to my own business partner every single day, let alone some investment I made. And he goes, and people were like, you talk to Ari every day? About what? And he's like, they're like, what are you guys talking about? He goes, well, you know, Ari, Ari averages a 90 second phone call. He's like, so we have a 90 second phone call, but we're texting and calling every day and it's usually 90 seconds. He goes, sometimes it's a specific ask, like, hey, we need this introduction or we need this, this analysis or whatever.

• 14:26Shaan Puri?

  He's like, but I don't like to do formal board meetings every quarter. Too slow. I like the pace that Ari moves. These 90 second phone calls every day. Which takes me to the next all in individual, Ari Emanuel. So you, you know Ari Emanuel and a lot of people know him because the character in Entourage is based off of him. But there was some things about him that I didn't, didn't fully know that that was kind of interesting. Uh, did you know he's one of three brothers and all three brothers do really interesting stuff?

• 14:53Sam Parr?

  So there's a book that I read years ago. It's called, um, what's it called? Something America, the Brothers Emanuel, I believe it's called. Brothers Emanuel, A Memoir of an American Family. And I think it's in that book, Ari Emanuel. So Ari Emanuel is a probably a billionaire. He, he's one of probably the, the shot caller in LA. His brother is Rah Emanuel, who I think was the mayor of Chicago and on Obama's cabinet or something like that, a political power player. And in the book, Ari and Ram, I think Ram is his name, they go,

• 15:25Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Sam Parr?

  They go, a lot of people know us, but they don't know that our third brother, Zeke Ezekiel, he's the smartest and the more successful brother. And his brother Ezekiel, I believe, I'm going to screw up the titles. He was head of, what's the head of like health for the government under Obama?

• 15:42Shaan Puri?

  He basically made the Obama care, right? Like he was the architect of the Affordable Care Act.

• 15:47Sam Parr?

  I think he also has done some major things. I don't remember exactly, so don't quote me on this. Don't turn this into a shorts, but I think he helped pioneer the heart transplant and things like that. Like he invented like things that save lives and he, and the two brothers are like, Zeke's the smart one. We're just more like stubborn and bullheaded a little bit.

• 16:06Shaan Puri?

  So that's hilarious. They asked him, they were like, hey, do you watch like Entourage? Like, what do you think of Ari Gold? Is that, is that you? And he's like, well, they got some things right. You know, I am very aggressive. And there, and there he's like, you know, I didn't go into an office with a paintball gun and shoot everybody. So like, you know, I didn't do that, but you know, they, they got a lot of things right, unfortunately. And he's like, they're like, how have you changed over the years? Are you still as aggressive? He goes, look, here's, here's what I have to say. You need to know when you're on the field. When you're on the field, you're there to compete, you're there to win, and you're, you're there to kill. But you, he's like, the one thing I have learned is I've learned that I'm not always on the field and sometimes I'm off the field and I need to behave a little bit differently. He goes, that's the only change that's happened to me in

• 16:48Shaan Puri?

  like 30 years. I thought that was also funny as an aggressive person. We know somebody who worked with them and they told some pretty hilarious stories. Apparently this guy's day is like this. So growing up, he was like dyslexic, I think. So he, he had to go to like a reading teacher for like three hours a day or something like that. And he's like, I hated it. I used to cry all the time. I used to feel so embarrassed by it. He's like, then I just realized, whatever, this is my superpower. I'm going to win a different way. Okay. I can't read these contracts. I can't read this stuff. So I'm going to surround myself with, I'm going to basically work differently and I'm going to surround myself with people who could do those things for me. And I'm going to do other things that only I could do well. And so his day is basically, he's like walking on a treadmill. He's got the earpiece in his ear and his assistant is just, he just has like a call list. His assistant

• 17:31Shaan Puri?

  is just getting people on the phone that he wants to talk to for like 30 to 90 seconds at a time. And he just immediately hits someone up, calls him and in 90 seconds makes the point, hangs up and then he's on to the, and the next call is ready in his ear and he just goes to the next one, which is

• 17:44Sam Parr?

  And I think it starts at like 6 a.m. I think I read an article where he's famous for, he would do something like 200 calls a day and it starts at 6 a.m. and he's talking to people all day, just making deals.

• 17:55Shaan Puri?

  Somebody told me, he was like, they're in his office and he's just has a bag of almonds. And he's just, whatever he wants his assistants attached to, he was throwing the almonds, bag of almonds at her. He just hit her in the head with an almond and she would turn around and he's like, next call, I do the next call.

• 18:09Sam Parr?

  What a douche.

• 18:10Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. All these guys, all of them, all of them have the same trait, all three people I'm going to talk about. Okay. So he also had the classic story, the same story, but there's, it's like, there's something about working in the mailroom. So like David Geffen, Barry Diller, Ari Emanuel, all have the same story, which is basically started off in the Hollywood mailroom. And use that as their like feeding ground. And I was thinking about this, I was like, what is it about the mailroom? If you think about it, what is the mailroom? So the mailroom was basically, it's the shit nobody else wants to do. So it's already a filter. It's going to filter out anybody who doesn't really want it because it's so unglamorous. That's interesting thing. Number one. Interesting thing. Number two is the way it works is you're basically making copies of scripts and stuff. Then you got to drive it around town. You give it to clients, you deliver the paperwork, you get the, you go fetch lunches, you hand off the lunches to somebody who's in a meeting.

• 18:55Shaan Puri?

  And if, if you do good at that, then you could become an assistant, then you could become an agent and then whatever, but you like, you learn the town and you're working seven days a week. And so the guys who ended up making it, they basically use that as their opportunity to build like an incredible network because the job is kind of networking. And so they use that, like used every rep of that instead of just being like, ah, whatever, I'm going to just mentally check out to actually build their power network. And that's kind of like, you know, part of how all three of those guys, um, it arose to power. Can I tell you the last one now? The last all in individual?

• 19:26Sam Parr?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm, I'm, I'm into this.

• 19:29Shaan Puri?

  Okay. So you know this person well, but I don't know if you know the full story. I didn't know the full, full story till I researched this, but Dana White. So I want you to tell me kind of like a little bit about what you know, and then I want to fill in some gaps of new things I learned when I was looking at this.

• 19:43Sam Parr?

  All right. So Dana White, I think he was a boxing instructor, but not like coaching real boxers. Like it was like a jazzercise class in Boston. He was in Boston and he moves into this bad neighborhood and Whitey Bulger, who's a big gangster at the time, he comes to Dana's office or his jazzercise gym or whatever. And he goes, hey, man, you're in my hood. You owe me a thousand a month or something like that. And Dana White doesn't pay him because he's like, oh, I'm a tough guy. I don't need to pay this guy. And then eventually he realizes that Whitey's the real deal and he owes him 10 or 20 grand. And Dana's like, dude, I have nothing. So he moves to Vegas to flee. He went to high school with these two rich brothers, the Fertitta brothers. The Fertitta brothers, they come from a wealthy family. So they owned like penny casinos, like where like

• 20:27Sam Parr?

  people like, it was like a low class thing at first where it was like their parents owned this casino and it's almost at a gas station, I think, where like people would put in like penny slots. From there, they owned a few other casinos. I think the Station Casino or Golden Nugget, I forget what they're called. And so they get money, it starts working. And so the two sons, Lorenzo and Fertitta, they, or no Lorenzo and what's the other one? Frank. Frank. They, they become kind of guys in Vegas. They actually start a few companies and they buy a few companies. One of them was Gordon Biersch, which was a cider and beer company. They were one of our first advertisers at The Hustle. And they, so they start making deals. Dana comes to them and goes, hey, man, this thing called the UFC, it's kind of a sport. I know you guys, you brothers are somewhat into jujitsu. I went

• 21:12Sam Parr?

  to one of these events. They're pretty amazing. The guy's selling the brand. In reality, what we're going to get is a crappy little octagon and just the name UFC. It's $2 million. Let's buy it. They get convinced to do it. Dana gets 4% of the equity. The other guys get the rest, but they fail for four or five years. So they're in the hole like $35 million. They come up with this brilliant idea to have a TV show called The Ultimate Fighter in order to promote the events. The events are kind of popular, but like it's not really making money. They create this event called the, this TV show called The Ultimate Fighter. They convince Spike TV to air it. At the time, Spike TV was a pretty big deal, but not that big of a deal. And they do this series and they're like, dude, we're going to round of money. We can't afford this series anymore. Then Forrest Griffin and Stefan Bonner have their famous fight.

• 21:56Sam Parr?

  And at the time it was a huge deal. I was a kid. I remember watching this fight. I get a phone call from a friend being like, dude, you gotta turn this fight on. This is so amazing. At the end of that fight, the winner is supposed to get a thousand dollar contract. At the time it was, or a hundred thousand. They called it a six figure contract. Back then that was a big deal to get a six figure contract. The fight is so good, even though one guy won, but it was so great. They give both of them six figure contracts. From there, the UFC kind of took off. That was like the turning moment. And so Dana and these two brothers, two brothers are kind of the business, like brains behind it and they're really low key behind the scenes, but they run this business and eventually it sells for $4 billion to Ari Emanuel's company. And now it's like the hottest thing going. Is that?

• 22:38Shaan Puri?

  Very good, very good off the cuff. I like it. I want to fill in a couple of little details here that I thought were interesting. Stuff I didn't know. So you're right. Dana grows up in Boston. But he, and he goes to college twice, drops out twice in the first semester. He's like, this shit just ain't for me. And so he goes to college twice, drops out twice. He ends up as a bellhop. So he's a, he's a bell, he's a bouncer. He's a bellhop. He's like doing asphalt laying, like, you know, that's what he's, that's what he's doing with his life. He wants to be a boxer, but he sees a guy come in who he knew as a boxer and he looked up to, and that guy was just totally punch drunk. And he's like, oh shit, I can't do this. So he's like, maybe I should teach like boxing classes, like boxer size instead of, instead of actually trying to be a boxer. So that's kind of like the opening. Now,

• 23:24Shaan Puri?

  he's doing all that and he describes that he wants to, he's like, I want to maybe get into boxing promotion. And he's like, I'm not sure exactly, maybe I could be a boxing promoter, but he's a bellhop at the, at the, whatever, the hotel. And he describes the day that he quit. And he's like, I was just sitting there and he's like, actually, we used to get paid pretty well for being a bellhop. I forgot what it was. It's like, you know, 22 bucks an hour or something back then. He's like, it's not that the money was so bad. He's like, and I like the guys that I worked with, but he's like, am I just going to do this shit forever? And he's like, I had the realization that every day that I do this, I'm not doing, it's another day that I'm not doing the thing I want. He's like, cause before I used to feel like, you know, I could always someday go do something. And he's like, you know what? Screw it. He goes, he says,

• 24:07Shaan Puri?

  So here's, here's what he says about it. He goes, um, he goes, if I had to tell you one thing, and he's giving a talk later, he goes, it would be to take the risk. He's like, because when I quit and I actually went for my thing, guess what? I realized I can always come back and be a bellhop. Like this life I have is always here because it's the bottom. It's not where I want to be anyways. What do I have to lose? I, worse case scenario, I could just come back and get another job like this. He goes, but I will never get back this window of time I have right now in my twenties that like, I can go and take a shot at something. And so that was kind of like his mindset and his mentality. So he quits and he's like, I want to start. So he starts trying to, he's doing the boxing thing. He's trying to, trying to be a, become a promoter. And then you're right, the, the mob thing happens.

• 24:51Shaan Puri?

  Here's what he said about it. He goes, um, these guys show up and they're like, hey, you owe us $2,500. And he's like, uh, he's like in the movies, it's cool when you see like mobsters and mafia. If it's real life and they want you, shit, super scary. He's like, that is not cool. And he's like, so I, he's like, I was like, I have no way of paying this. He's like, so I'm just gonna, he goes, I go home that night. I just go to delta.com and I bought a one-way ticket to Vegas. He goes, I left all my shit there. It looks like my TV, my dresser, like I just left it there. I had no, I couldn't do anything. He says, I just ran away basically from these guys. Once I realized that they're pretty serious, I bought a one-way ticket to Vegas.

• 25:27Sam Parr?

  And the guys who were behind it, it was, it was Whitey Bulger, who's like the real deal. He's, uh, from the movie Black Mass with, and he's the, the character behind the departed.

• 25:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. Like when he first, when they first came in, they were like, hey, you owe us $2,500. He's like, I don't owe you that. For what? I don't have it. Like, what do you want me to do? And then a couple of weeks go by and then they call him and they're like, you owe this money by tomorrow, 1pm or else. And he was like, oh shit. Okay. I gotta get out of here. So he left basically that night. Couple of other things. I thought he was friends with the Fertitas. They actually didn't know each other. Like they, they only knew of each other in high school, but they weren't friends. And what he said was basically they, they knew of each other and they knew, they, they liked Dana because Dana was kind of like, Like basically, he tells the story. He's like, we had this class that we all hated. And he's like, Dana realized that the teacher was like really like uptight. And so it's kind of sucked to be in that class. But because the teacher was uptight, like one little thing could distract the teacher and throw them off.

• 26:22Shaan Puri?

  So he's like Dana would go to the restroom and he would kick this door really hard. And he kicked the door really hard, make this huge sound. The teacher would go like become irate, like who the, what is that? Who's doing that? And he would go try to find the person Dana would run away. But the class would basically, half of the class would go by with no teacher because like teacher would be looking for somebody. So he used to do that like every week. And then one day he did it, but his shoe like flew off. And he was like, oh shit, I don't know. Like he's like, he just had to jet. So the teacher found the shoe and realized it was Dana. And Dana got in trouble, but the Fertitas always like logged that in their mind. They're like, man, he took a bullet for us, basically. So years later, they're at a wedding and they meet up and they're like, dude, I haven't talked to you in so long. You know, how, what, what do you do? And he like learns what the Fertitas do. He learns what he does.

• 27:05Shaan Puri?

  One of the things Dana says, he's like, yeah, I teach this like boxer size class. I'm doing jujitsu. And I think Lorenzo was like, you know what? I'm doing good in business, but like, I'm not really doing anything fitness wise. Like I want to train jujitsu. And Dana's like, all right, sure. I've heard that a million times. Nobody actually shows up. Lorenzo, the next morning is there, ready to do jujitsu. That's how they actually got to know each other. That's how the Fertitas started to fall in love with like, you know, fighting or MMA. So what happens is while he's doing that, he becomes an agent, same thing as Ari Emanuel, becomes an agent first before he becomes a business owner. He starts representing Tito and Chuck Liddell, but the UFC is like so small back then, even though these guys are the big stars. They're so small, but that in doing that, he's negotiating a contract with the owner of the UFC. He's like, you gotta pay Tito more.

• 27:47Shaan Puri?

  Look at how much money this guy's bringing in. He's the face of this. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta step up. And the guy's like, the guy's negotiating, negotiating. He's like, finally, he's just like, look Dana, there's no money. All right. This whole thing's going to fall over like. You're not wrong, but I have nothing to give. And Dana's like, in that moment, like basically should have been a disadvantage, like shit. My main business is going to go down the drain. Uh, you know, the owner can't pay him, can't pay my fighters like this is over. But he turned that disadvantage into an advantage. He's like, then that's when he approached the Fertitas to be like, hey, let's buy this thing. And the one funny thing is that owner had mismanaged the business so bad that they didn't even own UFC.com. He had sold it to just get a little bit of cash to user friendly computers. And then Dana had to go buy it back from userfriendlycomputers.com.

• 28:32Shaan Puri?

  And like get back UFC.com's domain, which I thought was amazing.

• 28:36Sam Parr?

  And I think when they bought it, Dana was like, what did, someone asked Dana, they go, what did you get when you bought it? He goes, well, he had this like octagon, which is basically just like a cage and like mats, which is not very expensive. But it was really just that name. I love that name UFC so much. We hadn't had the name.

• 28:53Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. And then he's like, you know, they had put 40 million more dollars into it. He felt so bad. He's losing his friends' money. And they were trying to make it work, but it just wasn't working yet. And Lorenzo calls and he's like, dude, I can't do this anymore. Like I can't keep bleeding money like this. If you could like, can you try to sell this thing? And Dana's like, okay, my buddy needs me to sell this. And so he's like, he calls everybody and he calls back Lorenzo the next day. He's like, there's not a lot of appetite for this thing. I think the best we could do is get six or seven million bucks for this. And Lorenzo's like, okay, let me, uh, let me call you tomorrow. Next day he calls him, who knows what he had from morning that, that morning for breakfast, but he's like, fuck it, let's keep going. Uh, like, you know, let's put in another 10 million, one last chance to turn this business around. And then that's what they used to create the ultimate fighter, that last 10 million.

• 29:38Sam Parr?

  So he's in 50, they're 50 in?

• 29:40Shaan Puri?

  They were 50 million in.

• 29:41Sam Parr?

  Well, it was all funded by the family's casino and previous successes, which I think they're really rich, but I think they were not rich enough. That 50 was, I mean, 50 was a significant sum.

• 29:52Shaan Puri?

  And when it sold for four billion, those guys, the brothers each owned 40, 40% of the business, basically at that time. Dana made 360 million on the sale and like had a, you know, 10% kicker, some other crazy things about Dana. So. It takes a pretty rough dude to like build the UFC and I think this guy's kind of like a no holds barred kind of guy.

• 30:09Sam Parr?

  Well, have you ever met any of the UFC fighters? I think you and I have been around them because we have a friend that has been around them. They're, they're, they're all insane. Cause if you think about what it takes, so what, what's it take to get in your underwear? And fight to the death in front of a million people, you have to be an animal.

• 30:23Shaan Puri?

  You don't have all your screws.

• 30:25Sam Parr?

  No. And, and so data has talked about, he goes, I don't think you guys understand, like someone will say something homophobic or racist. And he's like, dude, that's like not even close to as bad as it gets when, when you're working with these guys. They're, they're insane and the drama happens every single day. You only hear about a small portion of it.

• 30:41Shaan Puri?

  But UFC would not be, it would not exist. It would not be what it is if it wasn't data's like force of will. Some other ways that he's just all in. So do you know he's like a banned blackjack player from multiple casinos? And which is funny because it's like, you can't really have an edge playing blackjack. The only edge he has is that he's willing to bet absurd amounts of money and then he wants to walk away.

• 31:03Sam Parr?

  There's, well, there, there's stories about him like before it was hugely, hugely successful where he's like, I made a million dollars last night at a casino.

• 31:11Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. Uh, of course, as anybody's ever gambled knows, you never tell the stories about losing the million dollars. You only tell the ones where you made the million, but his strategy, one things he'll do, he goes and he bets 75 to a hundred thousand dollars per hand. And if he just wins the first two hands, he'll walk away, which is just like infuriates the casino because that, you know, they're, they need the, the large law of large numbers to catch up. And he's like, if he makes 200 grand, he'll just immediately bounce and like, ha, I got him. But when he starts to get in the hole, that's when they, you know, that's when they get them. So, you know, it's just a kind of an impulsive individual. A couple of other things that, that I thought were kind of interesting. So he's like, growing up, his dad was alcoholic and here's what he said. He goes, my dad was never around and if he was around, you didn't want him to be around. He goes, he was not a good guy.

• 31:56Shaan Puri?

  He goes, but I wouldn't change anything. If I didn't grow up like that, I would not be me, right? I had the toughness that that built in me would not, I wouldn't have that if, if I had just had like a nice, you know, safe upbringing. The other thing he says, he's like, I didn't have a car. So he's like, I just biked everywhere I went in Boston. He's like, so I bought a Walkman and. I would put on Tony Robbins and I would listen to, you know, the giant within. He's like, and every day I would just ride around on my bike, kind of like working myself into a frenzy, listening to that thing, just getting anywhere I needed to go. And he's like, it was my kind of escape from like the shittiness of my life. He's like, and then I started buying those tapes for anybody as gifts because it was like so impactful to me, which I thought was interesting.

• 32:33Sam Parr?

  Dude, isn't that funny though? So Dana Dana White is is a tough guy, right? Like, I think that he's the type of guy who you don't want to mess with physically or in business. Like he's, he's, he's a legit tough guy. And even he listens to self-help stuff. I always thought it was funny. I was, I used to be ashamed of like listening to a Tony Robbins or something. I was like, I don't want to talk about it. And then you realize that like even the bad, the badasses like consume a lot of this stuff in order to get pumped.

• 32:57Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, the people who have improved themselves seem to have done something to improve themselves. It's insane. Um, one other thing, he had the same thing like the mailroom thing. So he said, I didn't know this part of the story, but for three years, he doesn't really talk too much about it. He's like, I worked under a guy. He's like, I basically did an apprenticeship. And he's like, I told myself, I'm going to spend three years with this guy because I know if I spend three years with this guy, I will know everything there is to know about the fight business. He's like, today, I'm not the guy who can go be the next Don King or go become the next big promoter of the fight business. I know that's where I want to go, but I gotta learn. I gotta earn my stripes. So he did his version of the mailroom. He's like, he worked for this guy. He's like, for three years I worked harder.

• 33:37Shaan Puri?

  He's like, you know, the, whatever my actual wage was like per hour must have been just ridiculously low with the number of hours I put in. He's like, but I did every job there is. He's like, I was a cut man. I was a corner man. I was a referee. I managed the talent. I would read all the contracts, even though he never even asked me to. He's like, I put in three years so I could know the ins and outs of the entire business so that that prepared me to do what I wanted to do. And he's like, I, I knew that's what I needed.

• 34:01Sam Parr?

  You haven't actually explained how they're all the same.

• 34:03Shaan Puri?

  They're all just maniac all in individuals, right? They're people who basically, Ari is a good example of this. So Ari kind of had already made it. WME was the biggest agency, one of the, one of the top two agencies in Hollywood, right? And he'd already made it. And I talked to somebody who knew him. I'm like, why did he buy the UFC? Like, and to buy the UFC, he raised, like, he tapped his network. He raised every dollar he could. But then he basically had to, like, leverage and mortgage WME. So he kind of put everything he had worked for at risk to buy a very high-risk asset at a very high price.

• 34:36Sam Parr?

  Which Silver Lake was, to tie it all in, I think Silver Lake was the funder or one of the bigger funders.

• 34:41Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. So Silver Lake sees what Ari's doing, and they're like, if Ari Emanuel is going all in on something, he will not lose. He will not let this fail. Ari Emanuel mortgages everything he's worked for to go all in on this bet. Dana has options to sell the business and actually had an option to sell for almost a billion dollars more, he said. But he turned it down because he wanted to work with Ari because he knew Ari is the guy who's all in. And the future upside of this thing is going to be bigger with Ari, even if today's payout is a billion dollars less. And so they all shared that trait of why they all wanted to be in business with each other and why they all wanted to back each other. And the Fertitta brothers, no different. Same reason they wanted to back Dana and do this deal was they're also wired like this. So to me, that was the commonality amongst all these people.

• 35:24Sam Parr?

  And if you watch a big UFC fight, you're going to see Ari Emanuel, you're going to see his girlfriend to his left. And then to his right, you're going to see Egon. And then a few seats down is going to be Dana. They're always, they always sit in the exact same spots for all the big fights and you see them. And I remember seeing Egon there and I'm like, who's that guy that's always there? And that's how I learned about him.

• 35:45Shaan Puri?

  And Dana said when he sold the UFC, he's like, it kind of fucked with my head. He's like, I spent two days. I just, he's like, I just had like a bender in my hotel room because I was like, what do I do? I have $300 million in my bank account. My best friends who have been doing this with me are gone now. I'm doing this on my own. And we kind of made it, but I'm used to being the guy who is fighting for, fighting to make it. What happens when you make it? He's like, it really screwed my head for two days. And then I was like, All right. Well, I guess I'm just, I'll just go back to doing exactly what I know how to do. I just go back to doing exactly like, just don't change anything. Just keep operating the same way.

• 36:18Sam Parr?

  And so how, what do you know about the Fertittas?

• 36:20Shaan Puri?

  The Fertittas, I didn't look up their history too much, but I wanted to know their personality a little bit. A couple of little bullet points I have here. They work out every day together, the brothers, at 7:00 AM. I like that. I just like that as a brotherly thing to do. The second thing, they attend all meetings together. So they're not like delegate, divide and conquer. They're like, no, bro, we're going to all the meetings together. They both sit there, they drink a diet Dr. Pepper, and they attend almost every meeting together as well. And then they like ball out. They got yachts and planes and art. And their cousin Tillman Fertitta also is a baller. And so like, they're just kind of a crazy family that made it in this wild, wild west time of Vegas.

• 36:53Sam Parr?

  I was gonna say, do you know who their cousin is? Their cousin is Tillman. Tillman got famous because he, I think he bought into Landry's, which is a, I think, is it a steak? Steak restaurant in Texas. From there, he bought many, many other things, including like bubblegum shrimp and like a ton of like those, not fast casual, but like Applebee's, like not nice, but like kind of nice if you're broke and you want to go out to eat type of situation. And then eventually he bought out the whole company after taking it public. And I believe now it's one of the most profitable privately held companies where he owns 100% of it. So there's a lot of, a lot of privately held companies that are quite huge. His company is 100% owned by him.

• 37:37Sam Parr?

  I think it, I read his biography. I think it does something like $3 million a year in EBITDA. And he bought the Houston Rockets as well. So he's like, but he's, he's known as being a real asshole. The other Fertitta guys, all the interviews I've seen with them, they seem shockingly, they're still sharks, but they seem shockingly well, well mannered and calm and, and, and they seem like really easygoing, if that is such a word that could be described, these types of sharks.

• 38:02Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, they are incredibly respected. I'll leave you one last little quote I liked from Dana. So he said, He goes, you know, about the risk taking thing. He's like, he's like, you can always go back to your job, but here's what you can't do. You can't go back and get this opportunity again. You can't rewind time. You can't get back your youth to take risks. He's like, I realized that I didn't want to be on my deathbed with a bunch of I shoulds. He goes, he goes, and he goes, not everything I've done has worked. And what I've learned is that even if it turns out shitty, it's not just that you learn how to win. Sometimes the most important learning is, I thought I wanted to do this, but it turns out that's not what I want to do. And I thought that was a really wise thing that most people don't say.

• 38:41Sam Parr?

  What's he referring to? Walking away from the UFC?

• 38:43Shaan Puri?

  It might have been like, it could have been anything. It could have been like when he wanted, thought he wanted to be a boxer. Then he goes and he realizes, oh, actually, like, only through trying this that I learned that that's not actually the thing I want to do.

• 38:52Sam Parr?

  Oh, this is Dana.

• 38:53Shaan Puri?

  This is Dana talking. And so I thought that was good because everybody talks about, oh, it's okay. If you fail, you'll still learn. But rarely do they say this, that one of the most important things in general in life is just figuring out what is the thing you actually want to be doing. Most people go their whole life never, never finding that. And then they're in their 30s or 40s or 50s, and they feel like it's too late to even try a new thing. They're so far down one path. They don't want to go back to the bottom of the mountain and try a new path. And so I thought this is so important to know is like, early on, when you're not that far up the mountain, use that to your advantage because you can go back to the beginning and choose a new path. And that sometimes going down the path, it's not just about becoming a better hiker. It's about learning, this isn't a path I like. And the only way I could have known that was by trying.

• 39:36Sam Parr?

  My biggest takeaway from these stories is loyalty. So I've heard Dana and the Lorenzo brothers talk about their little trio, their, their three person team. They're crazy loyal to one another. And I was always envious that I didn't have like a brother that was about my age, who I wanted to partner with or work with. And so I read about the Lorenzo brothers a lot, and I'm very envious of that relationship that they've had. They seem like they've had a healthy relationship with their parents who were business people. And then when they brought in Dana, they are all crazy loyal to one another, and they never disrespect one another publicly. It's all, it seems like a great partnership. And that's been my biggest takeaway from, from these guys is loyalty, even. Dana, I don't like many of the things that he's done.

• 40:21Sam Parr?

  And I'm actually not a Trump supporter, but he was like, Trump was nice to me in two thousand and eight or something like that.

• 40:27Shaan Puri?

  When nobody else was.

• 40:29Sam Parr?

  He's like, no one would, no one would help us. Trump helped us. I remember that. Therefore, I'm gonna repay him. Now, I don't think Dana is a straight up guy all the time. Like I said, I think he's done a lot of messed up stuff. But his value of loyalty, how he looks at loyalty, I appreciate, at least when it comes to those three, those two brothers.

• 40:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, you're kind of like that too, where like loyalty is a um, deep rooted value. I feel like if someone's loyal to you or disloyal to you, even in a small way, I feel like that goes really deep in your core. Is that right?

• 41:02Sam Parr?

  I don't forget. So if someone will do something, someone like, do you remember that story? That um, I explained about how I asked a reporter if she wanted to freelance for the hustle and she said, that's cute. And I like have always held the grudge and I want to destroy her. I went and re-read the email. She didn't say, that's cute. She said, that's so sweet. I appreciate you so much, but I'm not interested. But for some reason at the time, I read it and I went re-read it the other day when I was talking to Sarah and I was like, maybe she actually wasn't being rude. But for the last 10 years, I've been waiting for this woman to make a mistake and I wanted to pounce on it, just to get revenge because she dismissed me.

• 41:45Sam Parr?

  I've been wanting to do that so bad and I'm so thankful that that hasn't happened yet because she actually wasn't rude to me. Uh, I re-read it. But the point being is if someone's disloyal to me, I want to destroy them. And the people who are loyal to me, yes, I go all in on them because if you don't, look, I moved to San Francisco with not knowing anyone. The way that you get ahead is you have to have a group of people who you do everything for and you expect them to do everything in return. And once you find that group of people, it helps you so much. Not just in life, but or not just in business, but for everything else. It helps so much.

• 42:19Shaan Puri?

  And we have a friend who is so incredibly loyal that it like sets a standard of loyalty.

• 42:26Sam Parr?

  It's almost annoying.

• 42:27Shaan Puri?

  You know who it is.

• 42:27Sam Parr?

  It's almost annoying.

• 42:28Shaan Puri?

  I don't need to say.

• 42:28Sam Parr?

  Cause he'll buy, he buys the best gifts and I feel like I've got to go like.

• 42:32Shaan Puri?

  It's not even about the gifts. It's like, I know that if I was in trouble,

• 42:38Shaan Puri?

  this guy would drop everything. He would drop everything more than my dad would drop everything to come, to come help.

• 42:44Sam Parr?

  He would say, send location.

• 42:45Shaan Puri?

  Send me location. Exactly.

• 42:48Sam Parr?

  Send location, I'm there.

• 42:51Shaan Puri?

  This guy, his loyalty, his level of loyalty is like next level. And I don't even know why. It's not like it's ever even been tested in that way. I've never had to send me location. But why do I feel that way? I have no idea. But the fact, but I do. You can't convince me otherwise. Uh, cause he has shown it in a bunch of like small ways that you know that the big way would always be there.

• 43:10Sam Parr?

  But man, it's paid off wonderfully for him. He was successful on his own, but he's been, he's definitely gotten ahead. But then there's been times I was with him one time. And he wanted to ride a skateboard. I go, Ramon, don't ride the skateboard, dude. You're 40 years old. You're about to hit your head. Do not do this. He does it anyway. He gets a concussion. I, we gotta take him to the hospital. We have to, we take care of his kid while he's in the hospital for two or three days. And so he's been repaid a little bit in his loyalty, but it's paid off. And I, and I, and I've seen, I'm like, I feel like I owe you so much that I will do anything in return to, to get you back. And so it's helped him so much. Uh, and so anyway, I respect that about these guys is that how loyal they are.

• 43:48Shaan Puri?

  I was thinking, but here's a little philosophical thought experiment for you. You know, you know, the phrase F you money? Like, oh, he's got F you money. And I think a lot of people aspire to have that. But an interesting question is, what are the other F us? Like, you know, maybe, um, you know, Sam, you could be like, I have F you health. Right? Cause if you're, if you're in absolute pristine health, you have physical fitness, you're, you're extremely athletic, you're mobile, you're whatever, right? You can have F you health. Like what else could you have? And I think Ramon has, he has F you loyalty. Right? We're like, it is, is, he is just full, a fully abundant in the loyalty that he has for others and that others will have for him. Cause me and you and everyone I'm sure that he's friends with, we would all go to bat for him completely.

• 44:32Shaan Puri?

  And I just, as a thought experiment, it's like, what are the other versions of F you? That actually are more valuable than having F you money. Have you ever thought about something like this?

• 44:41Sam Parr?

  That's a great question. So what else? What are the other options besides loyalty?

• 44:45Shaan Puri?

  Like my trainer, uh, my personal trainer, he's got like FU happiness. Where like the guy's happy no matter what's going on. Which is kind of the way that FU money works. It's like, dude, he'll do whatever. Cause he like, he just doesn't give a shit. He just doesn't care. My trainer's like that where he just doesn't give a shit. There's traffic. Oh, I'm having a party in my car. Oh, this person cut me off? Well, oh, I'm, you know, whatever. He just makes his own version of, of like, he's always in a good mood. No matter what is going on. He's completely unconditional. He's completely invincible.

• 45:15Sam Parr?

  I think you have it. I think you have that.

• 45:17Shaan Puri?

  I aspire to have that.

• 45:19Sam Parr?

  Well, in my opinion, from my perspective, you have that. I was thinking the other day, I'm like, what, does Sean ever get rattled? Uh, or does he ever get like stressed and unhappy? And there's been stories and I've seen it firsthand where someone has said something to you rude. Or you've had something didn't break your way and it was a tough break. And you're, you're hard to like get down. I mean, I've been with you when you've lost a bunch. I've been, I've seen you make a bunch, but I've seen you lose in a variety of bets that you've taken. You don't get rattled. You tweeted out something the other day. You said, um, you're, you're pucker butthole. What was it?

• 45:56Shaan Puri?

  I was like, everybody's got a butt clenched number. It's a, it's a amount of money where it makes your butthole pucker up a little bit. It's good to know where your pucker number is right now and just keep note of that. And I was like, I said, uh, cause I had just wired a bunch of money. And like, it's not even that I was like, it's not even that I was like worried. Oh, I'm going to lose it. But I was literally like, let me just double check the routing number. Let me just make sure I got that right. Which I don't usually, like, I don't usually bother to be like, okay, uh, palms are a little sweaty. Let's go ahead and hit the button. Like if you're ever.

• 46:22Sam Parr?

  Dude, I do that with a thousand dollars. I do that with a thousand dollars.

• 46:25Shaan Puri?

  Like animation when you're going to send an email, you know, you know, the one I'm talking about where it's the monkey's finger about to push the sand and it's sweating and it's trembling. Cause it's like, you're about to email your whole list. Let's just, are you sure you got all the details right? That's like, that's the pucker number for, for some people with their email list. And so I think everybody's got to know it.

• 46:41Sam Parr?

  Your number was high. I, I, I'm like that with a thousand. And so when I think about like, why am I stressed about certain things? I definitely try to think, you know, um, there was, uh, who was it? I think it was JFK. He had a photo of Abe Lincoln on his desk. And he goes, I just always try to ask myself, what, what would Abe do? Sometimes when I get stressed, I think, what would Neville Madora do? And what would Sean Purry do? Like, how would they handle this? Neville Madora is another person who has no stress. There was one time when he was trying to, he had never owned a house and he was thinking about buying a house. And he had never thought about finances because he's been making a great living for years and years and years. And he never thought about money. He could buy whatever he wants. And he was thinking about what house he wanted and he was just going to pay cash, like, or something like that. Where it was like a big investment, his first big investment. And he was talking to my wife and I, and he goes, I couldn't go to bed last night.

• 47:27Sam Parr?

  I've been, because I was thinking about buying this house and I can't buy exactly everything I want. And I actually have to like second guess some of the things. And then we were just sitting there, we didn't say a word. And he looked at Sarah and he goes, is that stress? And we were like, yeah, dude, that's what stress is. Like finally you experienced it at the age of 38 years old. And, uh,

• 47:47Shaan Puri?

  Goes to the doctor. He's like, I have a tingling sensation.

• 47:50Sam Parr?

  What is this thing where I stayed up like for an hour last night just thinking about this? And you and Neville have that same thing where you have a very high tolerance.

• 47:59Shaan Puri?

  It's crazy when you see it because people take pride. They're like, man, I don't tolerate no disrespect. And it's like, what are you really saying there? What you're really saying is like,

• 48:08Sam Parr?

  What do you say? You tolerate it?

• 48:11Shaan Puri?

  You can't disrespect me. If you say something, that says something about you, not me. What, well, you can't bother me. Like, uh, you know, uh, there's a great way Tony Robbins said this. He goes, um, how cheap is your happiness? Meaning if all it takes is somebody doing something really little to take your happiness away, your happiness is cheap. You, you got the TJ Maxx of happiness, right? You are the low, you are the dollar store of your, of your, your mood is in the dollar store, right? Anybody can go get it for so little. Someone could just take the grocery cart in front of you that you wanted. And now you're a little bit piffed, right? Like, don't be cheap with your happiness. Be expensive, be luxury.

• 48:45Sam Parr?

  I heard a very funny story about you. And if this violates anything, we'll delete it. So I was with Ben last night for at Ramon's birthday. We did a little birthday thing for Ramon. Ben told me this funny story about how you were thinking about writing a book. And you meet with this amazing author and the author asks you something. Or maybe he was like, why do you need my help? And you were like, well, I think I could do it. I think I'm talented enough to do it. I just don't have the time right now and I just would rather you do it. And you said something that I guess this guy thought that you were being rude. And the guy in the middle of the meeting goes, well, stop the conversation. I'm out of here. This is not a good fit. And instead of being insulted, your takeaway was, wow, I really respect that about you. You did a great job of like standing up for yourself.

• 49:31Shaan Puri?

  That's not what happened. Here's the story of what happened. Here's the story of what happened. We meet with this guy, he's a book development guy. So basically there's, there's somebody in between an editor, a publisher, a writer. And a book development guy is just the guy who's going to help you think through the concept and flush it out. Right? So I'm like, who's the best in the world at this? Right? And a question I will always ask, who's the best in the world at doing this? I want to talk to them. So I meet this guy, who's the best in the world at doing this? And what he asked me was not, why do you want to write this? I didn't say I don't have time. What he said was, what do you want to write about? And I go, oh, I go, I think I could write about anything. I was like, I could write a book about storytelling. I could write a book about marketing. I was like, I feel like that's actually the problem. And maybe I'll write multiple books. I don't know, but I want to, I was like, I have so many ideas. I want you to help me think through which of those ideas. And he goes, that's a nightmare.

• 50:17Shaan Puri?

  He goes, uh, he goes, that's probably the worst answer you could give to somebody like me. He goes, I want somebody who spent 10 years, 20 years of their life only thinking about one thing. And that's the thing that they need to pour into a book. The guy who was like, oh, I could write about any, anything and everything. Oh God, that's going to be miserable for me to figure out.

• 50:34Sam Parr?

  And he like ended the meeting, like.

• 50:36Shaan Puri?

  He didn't end the meeting, no. He did, but he goes, that would not, he's like, he's like that, I don't want to do that. That's not a fit for me. So he didn't end the meeting, but he's just, he's just was like, I'm going to be honest with you. And I go. I was like, all you did was make me want you more. I was like, that's exactly what I want out of my development guy.

• 50:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Shaan Puri?

  Pushback because the speech I had given about what are the things I could write about and why? It was a good speech. It was an A plus speech. It was only 60 seconds long, but I was like, I made a strong point there. And when ever, ever, and ever, somebody can say the truth in the face of my persuasion, I have an extreme amount of respect for them. It's not about generic pushback. It's about truth. The guy said the true thing, which was that's not what you want when you're writing a book. What you want is, I, my whole life has been building up to this one book in this one moment and this one thing that I can't wait to pour out of me because I, I've refined it in my head for 10 years. And I was like, that's actually right. And I want to work with you even more now, but I also agree with you and that you're completely right. Thank you. And I was like, I, I like thanked him profusely for that.

• 51:35Shaan Puri?

  The same thing happened the other day on a tax call.

• 51:37Sam Parr?

  Well, by the way, my, my point being is I think that's a really healthy way that you approached it.

• 51:42Shaan Puri?

  Let me tell you about a more offensive thing that happened that was also not offensive to me. I've been looking for a tax person and I was like, um, so I created this whole like tax data room and I sent it to a couple of people. I was like, hey, I heard you're good. Take a look at my situation and tell me what you think. And most of them, they're like, hey, took a look at this. I did three calls. First call, door number one, guy goes,

• 52:04Shaan Puri?

  hey, took a look at everything. It looks really good. I have two suggestions of maybe if you did this instead, you could save some money. So, okay. Thank you for your suggestion. Person number two says, hey, this looks, uh, this looks great. You know, congratulations on all your success. You know, I definitely think we can handle this for you. We have other clients that are similar and I feel really confident about it. I said, okay, thank you for that. Uh, cool. Not quite what I'm looking for, but, but okay. Thank you. Third, third door. I get on the call. This guy goes, all right, I took a look at everything and, um, I'll be honest with you. You have way too much complexity for how much money you make.

• 52:41Shaan Puri?

  Thank you. I feel the same way, but a part of me, my ego was like, uh, did you look at the numbers? They're going up. That's actually 2022. 2023 is better. And 2024 is gonna be great. Like, my ego wanted to be like, are you saying I'm a broke little bitch? Cause like, that's what I heard. You heard that lady, that writer say, that's cute. And she didn't actually say that. In my head, what I heard was, you're too poor for me. Thank you. Like, I don't really want to do this. And I felt that for like 15 seconds, but then more than that, you know, and I let myself have the feeling for 15 seconds of like my ego, like being deflated, like a, you know, a pin pricking my balloon there. But I was like, what do I actually want? Let me remember what I actually want. And I hired the third guy, of course. I was like, I totally agree. Can you help me

• 53:26Shaan Puri?

  fix this up? And he's like, and then as we were talking, he's like, actually, now that you've told me more, a lot of this does make sense because the trajectory, but like, you know, I still think we need to simplify. And I still think that like, you know, you really got to ask yourself, do I really want to optimize all this for taxes? Or would I rather just spend my time making, you know, actually growing the business and making more money? And I'm like, you sir are exactly what I've been looking for. And even though that first punch hit me right in the gut, and I wanted to get defensive, I have learned that that gets me no, absolutely nowhere. And I just let that feeling go in 15 seconds. And that's actually the tip, by the way. Everybody has the same feelings. It's just that some people hold that for like 10 years. Some people get mad for three days. And then the goal is like, can you just have the feeling for 30 seconds and move on? And like,

• 54:11Sam Parr?

  I don't think that should be the goal, dude. Rage is an amazing motivator. I have achieved a whole lot remembering being dumped by a high school girlfriend.

• 54:20Shaan Puri?

  You've had great accomplishments, but you should probably remember that, like, you want all those accomplishments because you think they're going to make you feel better. And feeling rage is not the better you seek. So using rage-

• 54:31Sam Parr?

  We can deal with that. We can deal with that.

• 54:32Shaan Puri?

  Using rage is not really the way, right? Just remember, you never want the thing. You want the feeling you think the thing is going to give you. And using rage to get there is not the way.

• 54:40Sam Parr?

  Abs aren't built in the kitchen. They're built by an eighth grade girlfriend telling you that you're not good enough. Just remember that.

• 54:46Shaan Puri?

  Abs are built by a crumbled up Valentine card.

• 54:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 54:51Shaan Puri?

  Bro, can I tell you a funny story? I was in seventh, sixth or seventh grade and I really liked this girl Rachel. And I was like, uh, I wrote this like poem, Valentiny thing, like basically like folded it up. I cut it out and write this thing and I show it to her and she, I, I show, I, I don't know what I did, but like, I basically gave it to her. I think I was so nervous that I didn't even say anything. I just like handed her a note and I'm standing there and she opens it up and she reads it and she's like, oh my God, Shaw, this is so sweet. And I'm like, it worked. And she was like, this is amazing. Um, who's this for?

• 55:31Shaan Puri?

  And I was like, and I'm like, and in my head, I was like, I could just be courageous and be like, this is for you. I love you. Actually, it turns out that I have seventh grade love you. And it said, I was like, it's for Chelsea. I just made up a name and she's like, who's Chelsea? I was like, she doesn't go here. And I was like, and I was like, and she's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, you know that, um,

• 55:57Sam Parr?

  that improv content?

• 55:58Shaan Puri?

  She was at that. I met her. She goes to another school. She's like,

• 56:01Sam Parr?

  Did she just made the most elaborate lie?

• 56:03Shaan Puri?

  For three months, I kept up this charade that there's some girl that I met that likes me and I like her. And that note I showed you, that was for her. That's, that's where I was. That's where I was. I don't know how I don't have abs by now. That was pretty devastating. Beat down somehow. That didn't even work for me.

• 56:22Sam Parr?

  So you gotta use that rage to get those abs. Although,

• 56:25Shaan Puri?

  And she doesn't know. I hope she listens to this. Rachel, I hope you're listening to this. There was no Chelsea. There was, you were Chelsea. There was no Chelsea. Now she knows.

• 56:32Sam Parr?

  That's awesome. Um, that's it. That's the episode. That's the pod.