Behind the Scenes Minis: Hearts and Arts

Tracy and Holly share experiences of having their hearts monitored using EKG technology. They also talk about whether or not Albert Bierstadt had any natural talent. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 0:20Speaker 02

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic

• 1:05Speaker 02

  reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 1:34Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country... Or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile. Staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 2:40Speaker 05

  Attention chicken nugget fans. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. These new chicken nuggets are their tastiest, crispiest, juiciest nuggets ever. And because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces, they've reinvented several of their sauces and they created a brand new one. The new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants, don't wait around. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets today.

• 3:11Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And I'm Holly Frey. We talked about electrocardiograms this week. We sure did. You're wondering why we didn't postpone recording because I have a little cold. We did. We did, in fact, postpone the recording. We got to the end of the window for postponing things. So it became, we gotta record the podcast now. I will say, it does seem like the fates have been trying to get us to not record this time. Yeah, it's, it's been a kind of an ordeal this particular week. I'm going to preface this by saying, I'm not asking for medical advice. Please do not send medical advice. If you find yourself writing an email that starts, I know you said not to send medical

• 4:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  advice, but please don't, don't send that either. But I'm going to tell the story of the two times that I got an electrocardiogram. The first time, this was more than 20 years ago. I was having a palpitation issue. I worked at a place where we had a nurse. And so first I went to the nurse and told her what I was experiencing and the nurse said that I should go to urgent care, which I did. And they hooked me up to the machine and that was normal. Then they were like, okay, we're gonna just put you on this monitor for a while. Just chill out in this room and we'll be back to check on you in a little bit. I said, cool. While they were gone, I started to really need to pee.

• 4:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it was one of those things where I couldn't stop thinking about it. And the like, uh, need to go to the bathroom was stressing me out. And then that was making the monitor, like that was making my heart rate, heart rate go up, which I was also aware of because I could see and hear the monitor.

• 5:12Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 5:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it was a cycle.

• 5:14Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  And, uh, finally the, the nurse came back in and was like, whoa, what is going on? And I was like, I've got to pee so bad. Anyway, the, the urgent care at that time, also, this is, this becomes a story about how our medical system in the United States is broken. This is pre Affordable Care Act that we're talking about. This is how long ago this was, still broken. They wanted to give me an event monitor, which is kind of like a Holter monitor, but instead of continually recording my heart, I was supposed to mash a button when I was experiencing the palpitation.

• 5:50Holly Frey?

  Oh, right.

• 5:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Feeling that I was having, because nothing had, other than the fact that when I urgently needed to use the bathroom, my heart rate was very high. Nothing had seemed unusual at, at urgent care. So they give me this thing. I, at this point, was working as a massage therapist in a very fancy spa. And the monitor was under my clothing. It wasn't visible to people. But the first time that I needed to activate it, I was in the elevator at work, sort of behind the scenes. And I learned that it made an audible noise that I would compare to the sound of a dial up modem connecting.

• 6:32Holly Frey?

  Gotcha.

• 6:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I was like, I can't wear this at work. I am a massage therapist. Like, if I'm in a room with a client and I mash this thing, it's gonna do this. And if I just don't mash it because it's gonna make this loud noise in the middle of somebody's massage, like, then I'm not getting the thing. Like, I'm not, I'm not getting the monitoring that I'm supposed to be getting.

• 6:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I called the urgent care and they were like, just send it back. Months pass. And I get a bill for $600, which is a tiny amount of money compared to a lot of today's medical, medical bills, but it was $600 that I did not have because the provider for the event monitor was out of network. And because for some reason, I didn't get a bill for this until months after it had, like, the service had happened. I was past the deadline to, to like, file, like, to get them to, to get the insurance company to, like, revisit their denial of the claim.

• 7:38Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 7:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I was like, I don't, I don't have $600. Nobody talked to me about this costing $600. Nobody talked to me about the fact that the provider for this thing was out of network. Apparently, no one thought to see if they were in my network before signing me up for a $600 thing that they didn't, the signing me up for a $600 thing without like, talking to me about it. And then I moved away.

• 8:05Holly Frey?

  And that was the end of that.

• 8:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  And decades have passed without me ever again hearing about that $600. Like, it never went to collections or anything like that. It was just a whole, it's a whole weird thing.

• 8:17Holly Frey?

  That is weird.

• 8:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  That was all probably stress related. I don't know. It's, it's, the problem stopped happening.

• 8:24Holly Frey?

  Hooray.

• 8:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  That time I did have irritation from the adhesive on the, the electrodes. This time, we have talked about how I have been, I like, I have hypertension, I'm on medication for my blood pressure, I needed to have my dosage adjusted, and I had gone for a follow-up for that. And my doctor was like, why is your heart rate a little high? And I said, I don't know. And I had been putting in my pulse along with my blood pressure readings, and she was like, it's been a little high pretty much this whole time. Let's get, let's get an EKG. I, at my physical, I had already gotten. All of the, of the various blood work for things that might cause a person to have an elevated heart rate and all of that had been normal.

• 9:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  And the, the EKG was almost, was like also normal. And when I was asked, have you ever had one of these before? I was like, oh yeah, it was like probably more than 20 years ago at this point. She was like, yeah, this is, it's, it's changed almost none since then, but the machine will probably take less time. Mm hmm. And for my specific experience, the, the adhesive electrodes did not cause me any irritation whatsoever, which I was glad about because I do tend to react to adhesives sometimes. I do too. In medical contexts. So it was a great move for me to drop the very unwieldy topic for this because I was

• 9:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  like, I bet I can do an electrocardiogram episode way faster than I can finish this unwieldy thing. That turned out to be totally correct, even working through having a cold the whole time. I did not feel ill enough during the work week to need to take sick days. Right. My voice sounded terrible. I returned to the unwieldy topic, which is coming. I definitely would not have finished it on time had I continued trying to work on it. It turned out to be kind of a tangle. It is coming though. I'm not going to spoil what it is. It's going to be soon though. One of the papers that I read while researching this was about automated ECG interpretation.

• 10:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it was called Automated ECG Interpretation: A Brief History From High Expectations to Deepest Networks in the Journal Hearts. And here's a quote, quote, "The purpose of this article is to review the development of automated ECG processing from its beginnings to the present day with the hope that between the time the article was written and published, there will not have been some world shattering development to make the content of this paper outdated."

• 11:04Holly Frey?

  I mean.

• 11:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  I found that hilarious.

• 11:07Holly Frey?

  The refrain of all scientists everywhere right now.

• 11:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep. We have occasionally recorded an episode on something on the podcast and then in less than 24 hours, there's a major discovery of that related to that. Something that seems more likely to happen in a field like automated ECG interpretation. I also noted, we've had a number of medical episodes lately and they've been pretty focused on Europe and North America. And I think some of that has to do with like where the centers of academic and medical research were, but then some of it is also probably just information availability.

• 11:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's totally possible that there were other discoveries elsewhere in the world that I just did not uncover in what I was working on. So I wanted to acknowledge that.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 13:31Speaker 06

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 13:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 13:54Speaker 06

  It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 14:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 14:09Speaker 07

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 14:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 14:18Speaker 07

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data is flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 14:22Speaker 06

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 14:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love. Connecting changes everything. AT&T. So you're considering getting a home security system, but you want something that fits your space. Well, with ADT Blue, it's easy to customize a system that's right for you and set it up yourself. Just pick the kit and monitoring plan that makes sense for your home. Let's say you're worried about package theft. The ADT Plus app can walk you through setting up a new doorbell camera kit. Once it's installed, ADT Pros can help you keep tabs on it 24/7, or you can manage it yourself from the ADT Plus app. There are no long-term contracts, so you can change your monitoring plan whenever you want. The flexibility doesn't end there. You can add to your system as you need to with things like extra cameras or motion sensors.

• 15:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Some life decisions are hard, but thanks to ADT Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 15:38Holly Frey?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.

• 16:21Holly Frey?

  Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 16:47Holly Frey?

  This topic reminded me of a thing that I forgot. Okay. Which is that I don't think I had ever had an EKG until last year. Uh huh. Which is, I've talked about it on the show, I'm fine, everything's fine. But I had been having weird chest pain. Oh, yeah. And I had done a like, is this heartburn? Because I almost feel like a jerk for saying this. I had never experienced heartburn in my life. I can eat all of the cruel and evil things, and the most I will do is burp. But I don't get a burning sensation. Like, I don't. So I did not know. And I, I did a telehealth consult because it was like the middle of the night. And the doctor that I talked to was like, hey, you're in your 50s.

• 17:30Holly Frey?

  This could be a heart attack. Maybe you go to the ER now. And I went to the ER and I didn't even have like this information all the way out of my mouth before like, uh, an orderly came screeching around the corner with the, the cart and was like, I'm still filling out paperwork. And they did it and they're like, hey, your heart's fine. Your heart's actually great. And I was like, okay, good. And I thought I would go home. But that was when I had my gallbladder out. But the other thing that I had quite forgotten. Was that I'm presuming it was some form of a Holter EKG. When I was admitted and I was in the hospital, they continued to monitor my heart just for safety. And so I had one that lived, or I had, you know, electrodes that lived on me.

• 18:13Holly Frey?

  And I didn't know until later, when I was like, what the heck is going on? That it was sending all of my info continuously via wifi to the nurses station.

• 18:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:22Holly Frey?

  Until I like scratched myself in my sleep and undid one of the electrodes, which to them looked like I was crashing.

• 18:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 18:31Holly Frey?

  There were a lot of very concerned people in my room and I'm like, what?

• 18:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  What's happening?

• 18:37Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Wonderful of them to be on the spot. But yeah, I was just a ding dong that moved my gown around and scratched it myself in a way that

• 18:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Holly Frey?

  Ruined their feedback.

• 18:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't fully know what happened because you are typically not conscious during a colonoscopy.

• 18:55Holly Frey?

  Unless you're me. I wake up every time.

• 18:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  When I had been taken to the recovery room after I got a colonoscopy and I was, you know, I had been brought my clothing and I was in kind of like, you know, a private area where I would recombobulate myself. They were unhooking me from things. And then somebody went, oh, that explains it. And similarly, like a monitor wire had had come off of what it was supposed to be attached to. So I'm like, what was happening in the room while my thing was going on? Was somebody like, I don't know, something seems wrong, but she seems fine. Whatever it was, was a dislodged monitor.

• 19:38Holly Frey?

  You also gave me an unwieldy things memory.

• 19:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:41Holly Frey?

  Of a recent event.

• 19:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 19:43Holly Frey?

  So some time ago, perhaps a year and a half. I was working on a subject which became unwieldy.

• 19:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 19:53Holly Frey?

  And I kind of abandoned it. And then I forgot all about it. And recently. It has come to my attention that my sewing room must be reorganized. It's really like in a rough shape. If somebody looked at it, they wouldn't trust me to make a bed, let alone make a garment. Like it's, it's become such a mess. And so I started like basically pulling everything out of there, running stuff to our storage unit, and then we're going to put in new shelving and like rebuild it out. But while I was doing that, I uncovered several books that had become buried under fabric that I had been using to research this other subject. And I was like, huh, I wonder how far along I am on that. Maybe I should pick that back.

• 20:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 20:35Holly Frey?

  So it might still happen. We'll see.

• 20:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Holly Frey?

  I don't know.

• 20:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  My unwieldy topic is definitely happening. It is, I would say 70% written at this point. Once I got all of my note taking done, it was not, uh, like the writing process has gone really quickly on it. Uh, but like, there was just too much left to do for it to have been done in that amount of time. So my one last thing that I have written on my list of notes that I made for myself about the behind the scenes for this. I don't know how I wound up on the Wilhelm Eintoven Wikipedia page because like we don't, that's not, that's not where I'm researching episodes. So I think I might've like clicked on somebody else's source link on their thing and it turned out to be Wikipedia or whatever.

• 21:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  But there is a Jack the Ripper section on the Wilhelm Eintoven Wikipedia page alleging that he was a suspect for being Jack the Ripper. I was, uh, shocked by this because until reading that paragraph, uh, I had thought about what a nice guy he seemed to be. Like he seemed to be very focused on giving other people credit for their work, even though that, you know, like he didn't necessarily need to credit someone who did work independently of him where they came to a similar conclusion, but he did. I have no idea what he was like as a person, but the fact that he wanted to split his Nobel

• 22:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  money with an earlier assistant, also a thing that I, that just sort of, I was like, this seems like he might've been a nice guy. And then I get to somehow on the Wikipedia page and there's this Jack the Ripper thing. So then I started trying to like, find out what people saying, were saying about him possibly being Jack the Ripper. And I didn't find any other reference to it in any places that have stuff about potential Jack the Ripper suspects.

• 22:37Holly Frey?

  I have theories.

• 22:39Tracy V. Wilson?

  You do?

• 22:40Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 22:41Holly Frey?

  Because uh, I may be dabbling more Jack the Ripper reading than you. Um, but.

• 22:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, well, and I am by no means a Jack the Ripper expert.

• 22:52Holly Frey?

  I'm not an expert either, but I do love that story.

• 22:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, it's a whole world of research that I have not touched in any way.

• 22:58Holly Frey?

  But I will say there are two things that are like, oh, I see how he got on the list.

• 23:05Holly Frey?

  One is that almost any doctor practicing at the time got on the list at some point. The other is that he was a foreigner.

• 23:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 23:17Holly Frey?

  And a doctor. And that.

• 23:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 23:19Holly Frey?

  That's like the double trouble of, well, you have an accent, you clearly must hate women and be weird. So I think that's probably all it was. Or maybe he was a super creeper. I don't know. But uh, those are, that pattern plays out a lot. If you look at, at a lot of the medical professionals in the area at the time. It was like the cross hatching of like, doctors, check. Doctors who are foreign born, check, check, check, check, check. Like it automatically exponentially increased their, their, their suspect level for the authorities.

• 23:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Uh, it was one of those things where I was like, where did this information come from? And it's got that tag on Wikipedia of citation needed. And I wasn't able to like reverse engineer any sort of citation for it. So anyway, I think that's all I've really got to say about electrocardiograms and today's behind scenes.

• 24:13Holly Frey?

  I'll say hooray for them.

• 24:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Older than I realized they were. I mean, I knew how, that they are critical to cardiac care. I don't think I had a sense of just how many different things can be detected in one until really working on this.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic

• 25:35Speaker 02

  reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 26:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube...

• 26:43Holly Frey?

  Talks to doctors, influencers and real people trying these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Help Versus Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 27:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy

• 27:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:08Speaker 06

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too.

• 28:40Speaker 05

  The new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself. This new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and Sauces today.

• 29:09Holly Frey?

  We talked about Albert Beers dot this week.

• 29:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Indeed.

• 29:12Holly Frey?

  I almost said this weekend.

• 29:16Holly Frey?

  I mean, I did talk about him in the preceding weekend with friends and my husband, but that's not the same. His work is so staggeringly beautiful that the almost clinical way he approached it boggles my mind.

• 29:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 29:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Occasionally, when we talk about somebody having talents, like I will hear objections to the idea of talent as a, as a thing. And it's like, there are definitely people who find some things that come very easily to them.

• 29:48Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 29:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  And so when it comes to things like artistic talent, there are for sure people who find the process of making art and learning how to do it comes easy to them. And also people who like really have to work at it and it feels like more of a struggle. And I don't know how he personally felt about the process of learning to make art. But it is, does seem clear from like the episode as he wrote it, that it was something that he intentionally worked toward, not something that he necessarily just felt an aptitude for from the beginning.

• 30:23Holly Frey?

  No, and I couldn't find the accounts. But in that lecture that we mentioned that was given by Karen Quinn, I couldn't, I couldn't find her source for it. But she mentioned that accounts by his family are like, yeah, he wasn't actually very good at all, like growing up. We don't, we don't know how this happened. I mean, they, they know that he studied, but it wasn't like he was like a wunderkind that was like, oh, this child will become a great painter. He will become one of the best known painters of our lives.

• 30:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Holly Frey?

  Nobody knew that.

• 30:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I remember being in, you know, art class in elementary school. And like, there was one kid who could just sketch these amazing lifelike sketches of people while the entire rest of the class was like one step up from finger painting.

• 31:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it does not sound like that that was the case with, with him.

• 31:21Holly Frey?

  No, not at all. I will say, though, his family did seem to have

• 31:28Holly Frey?

  an interest in visual media. And I say that because we mentioned in the episode that he was a pretty quick adopter of photography as a reference collection tool.

• 31:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 31:39Holly Frey?

  And his brothers also did a lot of photography. One of his brothers became a professional photographer. And I found in one thing that I looked at, a mention that he had actually opened a photography studio with his brothers that was quite successful, but I couldn't ever find verification of that. So I didn't include it in the episode. It may be that he financially backed them and he wasn't really involved in that business at all. But one of his brothers did have a lot of photography credits and helped him capture imagery sometimes when they traveled together. And I think his other brother also did some. So, I mean, again, I don't know much about that brother and whether or not he was like,

• 32:21Holly Frey?

  I love photography. It's my passion. Or if he was like, photographs seem lucrative. I really, I really don't know.

• 32:29Holly Frey?

  And I thought that quote that we included towards the end, that was written shortly before he died, was really germane in all of this because it, it's that line, "Skill prevails over imagination in the Dusseldorf artists." They, I mean, these are skillfully executed paintings. They are absolutely beautiful, in my opinion. The way, I understand why our listener, L, who wrote in, was completely captivated by it because the, the dramatic effect of lighting in particular is just, it will, it will stop you in your tracks. It's so beautiful. And it, it gets into a bigger discussion of

• 33:10Holly Frey?

  the creator versus the audience and like what the, the truly important part of that equation is, right? It doesn't matter that he wasn't necessarily like, I'm stricken with pain at the beauty of this, I must paint it. And was instead like, snap a picture of that, snap a picture of that. So I'm going to paint this in my studio later. It doesn't matter to me that that was how that played out, because what matters to me is that a person was emotionally moved by it later. Right? So that's a whole big discussion of art. There are a lot of interesting discussions going on in the art world right now about the, the meaning of the finances of art and like,

• 33:54Holly Frey?

  how art becomes treasured to a degree that the average person cannot possess art and like, what it means to actually like, the inflation of art value and what art value means, which gets very heady and interesting. There are lots of interesting discussions you can find about it. But I mean, I, my thing has always been, I don't care if this person was doing this for any particular reason. I don't care if they were moved. I'm sure moved by it. Like,

• 34:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  I mostly see this kind of discourse in the, in the context of writing rather than visual art, just because of the kinds of folks that I tend to, to follow. And I would say I am familiar with the ongoing work of way more current writers than current visual artists. And I will often see discussions of the fact that like, the way we talk about writing and the way we talk about creativity, a lot of times, people put this almost supernatural spin on it, when like, it's, it's work.

• 35:06Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh, it's work and, and people should be paid for their work. And the like mythologizing of the whole creative process does a disservice to writing and other creative work from multiple angles.

• 35:23Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I mean, in the art world, this is a big part of that discussion, right? Like, an artist is a professional maker of art and they should be paid for their time and their effort. And the, the time and effort that they spent, you know, getting educated or practicing or whatever to get to the point that they can make something that you find of value enough that you want to have it in your home or in your life or whatever. This gets me on another soapbox, but like, it's that juxtaposed against this person painted a piece of art. And in a lot of cases, like in modern art, sometimes people will be like, I don't see the technique in this. And yet it commands high four, low five price tag, you know, um, five digit price tag.

• 36:07Holly Frey?

  And, and people not understanding why that would be. And it is like a bigger discussion too, about economic demand and markets and what people are actually paying for. Is it really the art or is it the status of owning the art? Like, it's so heady and it's such a long and big thing. But my other thing is this, if you like art, and we are in a, also in a world where on the upside, artists and access to art has become a little more democratized in some ways, right? You can find a lot of people online selling their art that make absolutely beautiful and incredible pieces of work. But often, because I do have a lot of friends that are artists,

• 36:52Holly Frey?

  it is shocking and mortifying to me how many people will try to haggle an artist down.

• 36:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 36:58Holly Frey?

  From their asking price. And it's like, because people think you made this, you could make more. Why do you want so much money? You can just make another one. And it's like, no, because I spent time making this one.

• 37:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 37:12Holly Frey?

  That is what you're paying for.

• 37:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I also spent the time like learning and practicing and honing my craft and honing my art.

• 37:19Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it's wild to me. We, we believe in paying artists in this household. I feel strongly about this issue.

• 37:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, that's, on my trip to Asheville from a few weeks ago at this point, they were having a festival in the River Arts District, which was one of the places that was devastated by Helene with some of the, with a lot of galleries and studios just absolutely destroyed.

• 37:42Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 37:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it like, if you look at the map of the River Arts District before Helene, it is maybe three times as big as the map of what was open when I was there. And I literally just walked around buying small pieces of art from people. Uh, anything I saw that I liked, that I thought, okay, I can get this in my luggage going home. I just bought it. And I don't know, I don't remember what the point was of this, besides the fact that like, I, I loved seeing how many people there were who were out there selling their art and how different some of it was from each other.

• 38:18Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 38:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I love that. And I love that, you know, there is a place that, you know, the, all of these various artists like created a, a place that, uh, was a home for this, that they are now recreating in the aftermath of the hurricane.

• 38:31Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm such a believer in patronizing artists as much as you can. I, um, I think I've said before that my tattoo artist owns an art gallery. And it's a portion of the gallery space is what's set aside for tattoos. And so it is the dangerous equation of me sitting there for several hours at a time, looking at beautiful art and not coming home, having purchased.

• 38:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Holly Frey?

  There are so many times that I'm like, Brian, there's a painting in the car.

• 39:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 39:03Holly Frey?

  It's like, okay. And I love it there so much that I, that is where I had my, my birthday this year. I had a bunch of friends and we went to the gallery and they closed the gallery for us and they designed flash just for us. And we all got tattoos and looked at art. And several of my friends were like, oh, I see, I see why this is in fact a problem.

• 39:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right, right.

• 39:25Holly Frey?

  It's wonderful. More people patronize artists. Take care of, take care of the artists.

• 39:31Holly Frey?

  There are lots of people that need patronizing, not in the negative and pejorative sense of that word, but in terms of like, supporting them in their, their careers. Artists are but one, but they're one that is very special to me. So if this is your weekend coming up, you can either buy some art from a local artist, or you could go to a museum and appreciate art that way. That also supports the arts. If you don't have time off, I hope you get to look at something pretty that makes your heart feel good and happy and whole, or evokes something in you that is important and meaningful to you. I hope everybody's nice to each other and that we find ways to, to appreciate each

• 40:13Holly Frey?

  other and art and the joyous things in the world as much as we can. I know that's hard sometimes, but it's really important. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday, we will have something brand new.

• 40:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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• 42:16Holly Frey?

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