Behind the Scenes Minis: Smashing Linoleum

Tracy talks about papers about history written by economists. Holy talks about linoleum having a bad reputation because of the designs of the 1970s and '80s. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Holly Frey?

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• 0:42Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Vive Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy.

• 1:56Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 2:17Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy Vewilson.

• 2:30Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 2:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about the swing riots this week.

• 2:35Holly Frey?

  We sure did.

• 2:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  A very long time ago, we used to have a website, and our website had the ability to tag-related episodes into categories.

• 2:46Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 2:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Not something that our website can currently do. And I made a tag that was just called "smashing things", and it included things like the Luddites. It included, what was her name? The prohibition, prohibitionists that smashed up bars.

• 3:03Holly Frey?

  Carrie Nation.

• 3:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Carrie Nation. I don't know why I couldn't bring her name into my mind, but Carrie Nation was on the tag. I just particularly enjoy the stories that involve smashing things. A kind of weird thing about the research for this is that I kept finding papers that were about it, but they were not by historians, they were by economists. And the work of an economist has a very different focus than the work of historians.

• 3:32Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I often will just go and sort of bookmark everything that I'm planning to come back to, or I'll save all of the papers that I want to go back to. And I kept opening them and being like, another economist? Why didn't I notice this?

• 3:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  Why didn't I notice this when I was working on it? A book about the swing riots was written in 1969, and it was called Captain Swing: A Social History of the Great Agricultural Uprising of 1830. It, for a long time, was seen as like the standard work on the swing riots. And I did not read it because, over the last decade or two, there's been a lot of work, kind of not as full-length book treatments, but individual papers and other research that has kind of looked back at that work that was the standard work for so long and started to just raise some questions about it. This is normal.

• 4:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  This is not like a criticism of this earlier work. Like, it's very normal for the field of history to revisit things in light of new information.

• 4:41Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  New ability to search things, new ability to access archives, that kind of thing. And so there's just been a lot of like, well, there were actually a lot more of these demonstrations than was described in this book. The fact that it did not just stop in 1831, like, this book sort of characterized the uprising as being put down in 1831, and that was the end of it. But a number of people have said, okay, there's just, there's actually a lot more that continued after this. And so that was a reason why I did not go try to get a copy of that book, which was seen as the authoritative text for so long.

• 5:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  I also wanted to talk about the remains of Thomas Paine.

• 5:30Holly Frey?

  Me too.

• 5:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Because I did not find out about him bringing the remains of Thomas Paine back to England until I was very late in the whole process. It just sort of came up as I was fact-checking something. I think the episode was already written. I already felt like it was a touch on the longer side. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. He brought Thomas Paine's remains back with him? And it initially blew my mind because I was like, but he hated Thomas Paine. It had not fully occurred to me that maybe as his views evolved on things like democratic reforms and freedom, that he might have reassessed his opinions of Thomas Paine.

• 6:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  So here is how I understand this happened. Thomas Paine died. His request had been to be buried in a Quaker burial ground. Then the Quakers said no. And so he was instead buried under a tree on his farm. And William Cobbett learned about this and was like, this is no fitting resting place for someone of such great stature. And so his plan was to exhume the remains, take them back to England, and then both rebury them in England, give him sort of a hero's burial, and then also make a monument that he thought maybe would inspire the spirit of democracy in England.

• 6:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Some years had passed between Thomas Paine's death and when this happened. So I think by that point, it was like, his remains were mostly skeletal, I think. At least, I hope so. And at this point, the story gets really ghoulish. I mean, the whole idea is kind of ghoulish to me. It's true that Thomas Paine had not been buried according to his wishes because the Quaker burial ground said no, but he had been buried on his farm. So digging him up just because, for reasons unrelated to what his wishes were, that already is like a little, a little ghoulish.

• 7:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  But then, like, there are rumors that some of his bones were made into buttons.

• 7:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  The number of buttons rumored to have been made from Thomas Paine bones is apparently more than is possible, based on physiology. Like, there are also various bones that have alleged to be in different places around Europe. The whole thing is just kind of very creepy.

• 8:06Holly Frey?

  I love it.

• 8:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  But I didn't want to just leave that out once I realized that had happened because going from just being a vehement critic of Thomas Paine and writing, insulting things about him, to being like, I have got to rebury him in a place that's more fitting, spoke to me an additional layer of how Cobbett's views evolved.

• 8:37Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 8:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Over his life.

• 8:39Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I mean, it almost seems like someone who is trying so hard to make amends for their prior statements.

• 8:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure. Yeah.

• 8:48Holly Frey?

  It's a very selfish thing that they even do the most cockamamie and perhaps not really wise, for lack of a better term.

• 8:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Holly Frey?

  Things to prove how sorry they are or how willing they are to make amends. But yeah, it's a little...

• 9:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I don't know if we will have a full episode on him at some point because I did find him really interesting. And as I was researching and fact-checking, I kept finding quotes from things that he had written that I was like, yeah, right on, that's amazing. But then there were also things that were more like, wow, that is really offensive. Like, he definitely, he eventually voted to abolish slavery. Prior to doing that, he wrote, he was one of the people that wrote about slavery as though it were the best thing for Africans because Africans weren't capable

• 9:49Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  of looking after themselves. Like, he had that kind of attitude. To my knowledge, the anti-Semitic thread of his opinions, I don't know that that ever really changed. And that had to do with the anti-Semitic tropes of involving like greed and moneylending and secretly controlling financial decisions, like all of which is, again, a damaging anti-Semitic trope. And like, if he eventually evolved away from that, I did not find reference to it. So the parts of me that are, find him really interesting

• 10:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  are sort of at war with the parts that are like, man, you had some bad opinions.

• 10:37Holly Frey?

  You were a problem. Yeah.

• 10:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. And I think there will probably be folks who are like, yes, but he was of his time. So were a lot of other people who did not have those opinions.

• 10:48Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I mean, there's, that, whenever that phrase comes up, and it, I mean, it does, and there are some, you know...

• 10:57Holly Frey?

  I understand it. There is some validity to it, except it misses all of the nuance, right? Like, yes, people in that time may have thought that way at a greater proportion than we would hope today.

• 11:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:11Holly Frey?

  But almost every time, there is a really bad opinion or take like that.

• 11:18Holly Frey?

  If you look at it in context of the time, there were already people going, that's not cool.

• 11:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Holly Frey?

  That's not cool. Don't do that. That's not how we're gonna do this. So it's always a little

• 11:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:29Holly Frey?

  tricky.

• 11:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Holly Frey?

  Do you know what this whole story makes me think of?

• 11:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  What?

• 11:33Holly Frey?

  One of my favorite history topics.

• 11:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  What is it?

• 11:37Holly Frey?

  Queen Victoria.

• 11:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:39Holly Frey?

  Because this all happened right before her reign started.

• 11:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  It did.

• 11:42Holly Frey?

  So it, it puts in context a little bit more, a lot of the work, particularly that her husband Albert did in terms of like trying to better the lives of the working poor. You know, it's one of those things where like, yes, he probably had altruistic tendencies and wanted to actually create better lives for people. But there is also the secondary part that you have to recognize, which is like, he's also trying to make his wife's reign as stable and smooth and safe as possible. Going, there's a lot of really angry, poor people right now. Is there something we could do to fix that?

• 12:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Holly Frey?

  I would like to not have things set on fire. Thank you.

• 12:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:33Holly Frey?

  No, less smashing. How can we perform? Just interesting to think about.

• 12:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

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• 14:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 14:30Speaker 06

  It was good arrival, anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 14:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 14:44Speaker 05

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• 14:50Tracy V. Wilson?

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  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 15:01Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 15:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 16:14Holly Frey?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them

• 16:58Holly Frey?

  more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 17:23Holly Frey?

  We talked about linoleum this week.

• 17:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep.

• 17:25Holly Frey?

  Which I have a weird, I have a love-hate with linoleum, you know?

• 17:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Holly Frey?

  I grew up in the 70s and 80s. There was some real ugly linoleum in our house. Man, that was ugly. However, I will say this, and I was gonna talk about this at the end of the episode, and I was like, eh, we're gonna get pretty far afield if we start doing this, which is that the linoleum that you buy today that's called linoleum is not the linoleum that Walton made today. It's polyvinyl chloride.

• 17:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Holly Frey?

  Or PVC, but it's pretty lovely.

• 17:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. When my parents put down new floors in their house, which I think I would have been in middle or high school, people were calling it linoleum, but they were calling the actual product just vinyl.

• 18:11Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 18:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I don't know if the format of the vinyl has evolved in the decades since then. But yeah, not actual linoleum.

• 18:20Holly Frey?

  I think too, it's one of those things where kind of the way carpet and rug get used real interchangeably sometimes.

• 18:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 18:27Holly Frey?

  And linoleum is not a trademark thing. It doesn't have the same meaning as other words might. It gets used kind of loosey-goosey, so.

• 18:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Which could cause issues because the method for cleaning a linoleum floor and cleaning a vinyl floor, not the same.

• 18:48Holly Frey?

  Yeah. You will destroy a vinyl floor if you do the linoleum cleaning. There was a quote I found in one of their write-ups. It's from that write-up that was translated from German to English that's so ebullient about the linoleum factory.

• 19:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:05Holly Frey?

  But I really love this quote. It has nothing to do, I mean, it did in context have to do with the process. But it just said, "Nature works gratis, but she takes her own time."

• 19:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, funny.

• 19:16Holly Frey?

  And I was like, that's the best. And it was just about how long it takes for these things to cure. But I was like, that's the truest and best sentiment. I'm obsessed with it.

• 19:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Something that jumped out to me about that write-up was, I think it mentioned museums as the place where one might encounter a linoleum floor. And I, I don't find that to be true, because I find museum floors to be the notoriously hardest surface ever put into use. Every time I go to a museum, I wind up with museum feet, because standing, looking at art on the hardest floor imaginable, no matter what shoes I have on, always by the end of the day, I'm like, I need a foot massage.

• 20:01Holly Frey?

  Yeah. It is what it is.

• 20:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, they got it. They, I mean, they, they need to hold up to being walked and stood on by people continually forever.

• 20:12Holly Frey?

  Well, and a lot of times, a lot of museums are historic buildings that have been

• 20:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 20:19Holly Frey?

  restored or are being carefully retained with their original stuff, which was often, sometimes marble floors, sometimes

• 20:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Holly Frey?

  other surfaces that are not, not made for coziness. There is a cool example, and this, again, I almost mentioned it in the episode, and I was like, of how like one company's innovation can propel an entire industry forward. Because, you know, we talked about how when it came to mosaic inlaid linoleum, nobody else could do it. So he just started selling the machines and that became its own business. But in terms of linoleum being installed, like it went from being used almost like a rug to then being kind of tacked down with like staples or small nails. And then finally,

• 21:12Holly Frey?

  Armstrong Flooring was the one that was like, you know what we should do is make this like a permanent thing and you can actually glue it down. And then it will be like a more sturdy thing. And that really drove up usage of linoleum in like new home building and stuff. And then, of course, you know, it's like the rising tide lifts all boats. All of the companies that were operating got a lift out of that because everybody started to use it more. Builders embraced it more and more. I just find that interesting. Here's the other thing I didn't touch on. If anybody's listening, who knows me, who knows the show, and they're like, why didn't you mention this? And that's linoleum art.

• 21:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:54Holly Frey?

  Like, you know, lino prints are really cool. That was invented in 1911 by, I believe, a Polish artist who's on my shortlist, and that's why we didn't talk about it.

• 22:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, gay.

• 22:04Holly Frey?

  Uh, so that, you know, may be another, in the linking chain I've been doing lately of things that are vaguely related to, maybe where we land. Anyway, linoleum. I have no, I have no linoleum or vinyl in my house.

• 22:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  We don't either.

• 22:21Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I know. Although now part of me is like, would it be interesting to get like a linoleum scrap and use it like edge it and use it as a rug?

• 22:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 22:31Holly Frey?

  Like somewhere for utility purposes or like where I know we're gonna drop stuff like paint?

• 22:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:38Holly Frey?

  Now I'm thinking about it. I don't know. If you have really good vinyl or linoleum flooring at home that you love, because some of them made today are beautiful.

• 22:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Like, yeah.

• 22:47Holly Frey?

  The ones we grew up with have a bad rap because there was a lot of very intense design choice going on in the seventies and eighties.

• 22:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:56Holly Frey?

  Which some people love and I don't, I don't want to denigrate their taste. It's not my jam. That color palette.

• 23:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:03Holly Frey?

  The, the orange gold avocado color palette is not for me. But if you love it, rock on. I hope your whole house is that and that it makes you joyous every day. But if you have a really good floor, send us pictures. Cause I, listen, I just like to look at people's home decor choices. Um, I won't judge. I'll just celebrate. It might not be my jam, but I'm always glad when people are doing things that they love. Um, if you have linoleum, and I'm using the loose version of that term, with chickens on it, send us that. Just fascinated.

• 23:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Holly Frey?

  I'm sure it's out there, right? Everything is. I mean, I'm the doofus that made the decision when we bought our house to oil paint the tile in our kitchen.

• 23:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh-huh.

• 23:45Holly Frey?

  And seal it. And that lasted for a good long while. And then one of our cats used to have that weird habit that cats sometimes have of scratching around the water dish before he would use it.

• 23:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:58Holly Frey?

  I never understood what that was.

• 24:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:01Holly Frey?

  And that started eventually that word down the thing. And now we just have the trashiest looking floor on the planet. It needs to get replaced at some point, but.

• 24:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 24:10Holly Frey?

  Not today.

• 24:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Our kitchen floors are wood, which was also the case in the apartment that we lived in before we bought this house. And I have just found it to be a weird flooring choice for the kitchen. I find it harder to keep clean than tile or vinyl.

• 24:33Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Would be in the kitchen specifically.

• 24:39Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I'm presuming it's sealed.

• 24:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, but still, still.

• 24:44Holly Frey?

  I'm just thinking like, it's the kind of thing that has to be resealed.

• 24:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 24:48Holly Frey?

  Cause that's a high traffic area.

• 24:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 24:49Holly Frey?

  I lo-, I lo-, listen, I love home decor.

• 24:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:53Holly Frey?

  Our other kitcheny area in the cantina was easy because when we built that room, it took great effort to convince the contractor and the workers to not clean up any of their mess. We were like, leave all the drips. We're gonna poly those right in. It's a dive bar on tattooing, which they did. So we just polyed that and like, that's easy to manage because it's, it's supposed to look a little funky monkey. And if anything drips, it just blends right in.

• 25:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I do mop it periodically, but it's not a place that we have to worry about. And it's very easy care at that point because you can just throw down more poly if you really need a, a pick me up. Anyway, send us your pictures of your home decor stuff. If this is your weekend coming up, I hope that you get to relax in a home that is decorated exactly the way you want and that it brings you joy and feels like a cozy, safe nest. If it's not your weekend, I still hope when you go home from whatever your obligations are, that similarly your home feels like a cozy, safe nest and like exactly the place you want to be. I hope that everybody is kind to one another and that whatever obligations you have, and if you have to work, that everyone is kind to you at work and that no weird

• 26:07Holly Frey?

  surprises come up at work. Cause that's the worst. Uh, we will be, uh, back on Monday with a brand new episode. We will also be back here tomorrow with a classic.

• 26:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 26:38Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 27:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 27:42Speaker 05

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and

• 28:39Speaker 04

  call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

• 29:05Speaker 05

  Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron tenía veintitantos años y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir

• 29:25Speaker 07

  que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas. Y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom! Eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o fotumamab en kissimta.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.