Lucy Hale Opens Up For The First Time About Eating Disorders, Relationships & Addiction

Lucy Hale has been on your screen for over half her life. Leaving her home of Memphis, Tennessee at 15 years old Lucy came to LA with dreams of fame, achieving this with her breakout role as Aria on the smash hit Pretty Little Liars and starring in films and TV shows ever since. This is the biography of Lucy you know, but what you haven’t heard before is that whilst Lucy’s career may have been Pretty, her life outside it was not. Sacrificing some of the most precious years of her life for success, Lucy has had to undergo an inner journey to rediscover herself outside of her work and fame. In this intimate and honest conversation, Lucy lets listeners into the previous hidden areas of her life. Discussing everything from addiction, eating disorders, the perils of the entertainment industry and arriving at self love and acceptance. Follow Lucy: Instagram: http://bit.ly/3KwVVRL Twitter: http://bit.ly/3XWuZy2 Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You have to go to a dark place sometimes to like get to that point.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  We are so excited to have Lucy Hale.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  She's been in the spotlight since she was just a kid.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Stars on the hit show Pretty Little Liars. Now being a movie star.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Not what you were expecting. You might be the first real deep conversation I've had. It's dark, disgusting and scary. I wish I could go back and tell my 16 year old self. Buckle up, girl. We're gonna go through some.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Lucy Hale. Lucy Hale.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Lucy Hale, everybody.

• 0:36Steven Bartlett?

  When we have those successes in life, we have an assumption that it'll fix a bunch of stuff. What didn't it fix?

• 0:41Speaker 00

  I struggled with the eating disorder because society makes it really freaking hard to like the way you look. I hated myself so much that I couldn't even give it basic needs like food. I did not feel worthy of the success or the career or the people in my life. And then the coping mechanisms were incredibly self-destructive. I've been working on getting sober since I was 20. I just like held on to that belief that real Lucy came out when she was drinking. I tried to change for my mom. I tried to change for my career. One of my best friends died of alcoholism and that still didn't make me want to get sober. None of that works. Alcohol isn't the problem. The problem is this feeling inside of me. I have to try it a different way.

• 1:23Steven Bartlett?

  Was there a darkest day?

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Oh, boy.

• 1:38Steven Bartlett?

  Lucy.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Hey.

• 1:42Steven Bartlett?

  I tend to start these podcasts in a very similar way. And I think in your case, it's never been more pertinent to start in that way, which is to understand your context. I've got to be honest, I read a lot about you online, but I couldn't really get to the very crux of like who you are and why you are that way. And it was really, really surprising to me because it almost appeared that you hadn't done a proper, slightly deeper interview before.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  No, I think it's so interesting you worded that way because I actually didn't know who I was until very recently. And I think that's because, and yes, you might be the first.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Real deep conversation I've had publicly. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to do this because I'll start off with saying, I just think you're so amazing. You're obviously very intelligent, but like you lead with your heart. And I was like, oh, I feel like this would be a good match for us to kind of talk. But yeah, I, I think because I, I moved to LA when I was 15 and started working pretty young, that my identity became what I did for a living and my accomplishments and my successes or failures within my career space. So it took me a long time to figure out who I was or who I wanted to be.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Like to, people would ask me, what kind of person are you? And I actually couldn't answer it. I had no idea. And through a series of, um, I guess we'll call it speed bumps. Just, we all have our own personal journey. I have, I'm slowly like peeling away that onion of, of who I am. And it, it turns out like that person's always been here. I just forgot she was there or like kind of put her in the basement, if you will. But, um, but yeah, it's been an interest. It's been a really powerful last year for me. Um, I will give you a heads up. I cry all the time, so just I'm, I'm getting you ready.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  I also have big eyes and they get really glassy, but I, I get emotional when I speak about these things because I just love where I've landed in my life. And it's been a really, um, Jesus, I didn't know I'd get like emotional this early on. Um, it's just been a really powerful and painful, insightful, joyous, horrible journey. And I, um, love that I can sit across from you now and be my most authentic self. So that's a long way of saying I'm glad to be here.

• 4:30Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm. And is that, is it, it makes you emotional because you're happy where you are now?

• 4:37Speaker 00

  I mean, I've always kind of felt like an open wound, if that makes sense. Like even as a kid, I just felt like I felt things in a really deep way. You could call that maybe codependency or taking on problems that weren't mine. But now I get emotional because of the perspective and just having pride in the choices I've made. And it's not emotional tears in a sad way. It's more just joy, whereas I've been happy at different points in my life, but I hadn't ever experienced joy.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  And to me, the difference in happiness and being joyous, joyous is long term and sustainable, and it doesn't come from anything external. It comes from here. And I had always heard people say that, that like true happiness comes from yourself. And I was like, I don't, what are you talking, like, okay, shut up. Like, I don't know what you're talking about, but it really does. And it's been a slow grind.

• 5:51Steven Bartlett?

  So let's start from the beginning then. Your context before the age of 10 years old, growing up in Memphis. Bring me into that world. Like, what do I, what do I need to know about that, that chapter in your life to understand the journey and the direction that journey took?

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, so from Memphis, family's also in Tennessee. I have an older sister who I adore and admire so, so much.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  I mainly lived with my mom growing up. My dad's still in the picture, but they were divorced really young. And I was just, what was I like as a child? I was...

• 6:34Speaker 00

  I think as long as I can remember, I've always felt kind of like, and I don't mean this in a sad way, like in a victim way. I've always felt like I was on the outside looking in. Like, I never had a lot of friends. I never felt the need to make friends or be social. Like, after school, I wouldn't want to go to a friend's house. I would rush to get home to go be alone with myself. So I've kind of always craved this feeling of needing solitude, because that's when I could sort of be myself. And I felt that as early as, you know, 10 years old. But, um, I guess my love of entertaining came from,

• 7:21Speaker 00

  my mom was married to this man who heard me singing in my room when I was probably like six or seven. I loved Aladdin. I loved Disney movies. And I vividly remember like pretending to be Jasmine on the magic carpet. And I would just sing with my little tapes. And he told my mom, like, Lucy's got a good voice. And up until that point, I had never, you know, I was too young to even know what being a singer meant. But that led to taking singing lessons, which led to performing around Memphis. And mind you, I hated performing live. Like, I felt, for someone who's an introvert and someone who loves solitude, being on stage, and I'm sure we'll talk about this later,

• 8:05Speaker 00

  like, I ended up doing music as an adult, and I still had that same feeling. I just felt so exposed, and it was really scary. And I ran a little anxious.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  But anyway, so I grew up performing in that way. And then I found out what it meant to be an actor. This is probably around age 13 or 14. And we found this small agent who...

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Was like Lucy should audition for this show that Disney doing called Hannah Montana. This was years before they cast Miley Cyrus. And it was then, it was that moment in that audition where I was thinking, oh, I can act and sing at the same time. Like this is my dream. This is my way out, you know, and. Way out. I'll get, yeah. You're so smart. Yes. So I now as an adult, I'll circle back around to it.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Cause you know how I said it was hard for me to say, what kind of person am I? It was also hard for me up until recently to, to know why I wanted to be an actor. I didn't know why until recently and I'll circle back around to it, but um. So it was this Hannah Montana audition, which led to knowing what a pilot season was. And pilot season for anyone listening is when they don't really have a pilot season anymore because of streaming and, and everything. But it's when a network pays money for one episode to see if they want to invest in doing a series. You know what a pilot season is, but um, I talked my mom into moving out to California. And what I mean, I didn't talk her into it. I think it was perfect timing for her and for me.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  And we packed up our Prius and all of our stuff, which wasn't a lot. I come from a very simple upbringing and my mom was a travel nurse. She cashed in her retirement for us to move out here. And I always ask her now, I'm like, how did you?

• 10:05Speaker 00

  How did you do that? Like, that's kind of insane. And she, and I'm sure she has her personal reasons too, but she was like, I kind of just had this feeling it was gonna work out for you.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  That also makes me cry and I also think it's really funny because if it hadn't have worked out, I'd be screwed because I didn't graduate high school. I wouldn't know where I belonged, like I thank my lucky stars that it did work out because.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  Life would, would look a lot different, I'm sure. Um, and then, so we moved to LA, planning to stay for three months at 15 and I never left. And I've been here almost 20 years. And now I guess it's a good segue into what I meant by a way out. And I guess what I mean by that is. I never felt.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  I knew that life there was not, I didn't feel like home. I never knew where I fit in. I felt, I love my family so much, but I always felt like the black sheep of the family. I just felt different, even as a little kid. And, um, and it's no wonder that I got into acting because that was, I was always in my imagination. Like my coping mechanism was like dreamland in my head and like fantasizing about what my future would look like. Well, if you believe in the power of manifestation, my future looked like this. Like little Lucy kind of created this, this whole life for myself.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  And I just knew I wanted something different.

• 11:44Steven Bartlett?

  You know, you used the word coping mechanism?

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:47Steven Bartlett?

  I'm really, I'm really compelled by that.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:49Steven Bartlett?

  Cause I sat with Maisie Williams.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  That was another reason why I really wanted to do this because I thought that episode in particular was so powerful. Really moving.

• 12:02Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm. Yeah, that, yeah, I, I got chills then just thinking about it because.

• 12:10Steven Bartlett?

  And as you were speaking, there was a lot of like through lines and similarities as to what you were saying. Like Maisie really kind of lost her identity in, because she was a very young actress and she became. But also she was, in her own words, using acting as a way to escape, which is almost what I heard from, from you then.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Yes, I didn't realize it. I realize now that my job completely was and has been at times a huge Band-Aid for a lot of issues in my life because I have like very addictive tendencies and a very addictive personality. And work, like a lot of people, can be such an amazing distraction and we get away with it because you're productive. You make money, people like you. It's not like a negative addictive behavior. But it's so easy to not heal or not focus on what's going on when you're constantly busy. And that's why after an experience like Pretty Little Liars, why everything kind of just like, you know?

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Because for, we did that show for, we did a hundred and seventy something episodes. That was like eight years of my life in between 20 and 28 years old. I don't feel like I emotionally developed in, I don't know what normal is, but I feel like I missed out on some normal experiences and

• 13:33Speaker 00

  so it wasn't until that period of my life afterwards where I realized

• 13:40Speaker 00

  how I was contributing to my own suffering and I didn't even realize the magnitude of it until I was outside of something like that show.

• 13:49Steven Bartlett?

  In hindsight, when you look back on your younger years, you talked about your parents separating. What impact did that have on you in hindsight, your view?

• 13:58Speaker 00

  You know, I often think about this because I think it was 100% the best decision for everyone and I

• 14:10Speaker 00

  you know, you hear about so many people staying together for the kids. Oh, my fucking no, if my, I'm so glad that my parents separated because it was the best thing for everyone and it wasn't a happy marriage. I don't think, you know, and I want to respect both of my parents and not speak up really on that, but, but I do think that

• 14:36Speaker 00

  it may have been a little toxic at times and you know, I was four, my sister was six and it it allowed for a little more peace and calmness and, and both of my parents are now remarried to wonderful people and, and it all worked out, but I think

• 14:55Speaker 00

  I was raised by a single mom for a lot of my childhood. She was remarried for a little bit, but my, my dad is now back in my life and he's given me so many lessons. I mean, I think that anything that's traumatic or painful.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  Like, I sort of just use that as ammunition to move forward. I'm like, what is this trying to teach me? What has this given me? Because we can look at any experience and say, and play victim. And you can, I think it's okay to be the victim when you're younger. Like, you're a teenager, you're 20s. You, it, it's kind of okay to do that and part of life. But I think at some point, you have to take ownership of your life. That's why I feel like so many people are miserable, because it's, you're in victim mode. I don't ever want to be a victim of my life or of my circumstances, ever.

• 15:50Speaker 00

  I want to be the happiest I can be and learn the most I can possibly learn about myself. And sometimes that means...

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Jesus Christ, sorry.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  You have to go to a dark place sometimes to like, get to that point.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Thank you. I'm a crybaby.

• 16:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fine. I didn't even remember. Thanks. These remind me of like McDonald's napkins, which makes me happy. I love McDonald's.

• 16:40Steven Bartlett?

  It's expensive building they set. We've run a budget.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  I love it, I love it. Um, I don't even know what I was saying, but...

• 16:45Steven Bartlett?

  Sometimes you have to go to a dark place.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  What was I saying before? Sometimes I go in a trance and I just talk and I don't even remember what I was talking about.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  Oh, just talking about my parents' divorce. Yeah, I think it's so easy to look at these experiences and feel sorry for yourself. But life is so much more interesting and freeing and liberating when you look at something, when you look at things that have happened to you when you were a child and say, "What beautiful lesson did I get out of that?" And if we're just taking... My parents divorce as an example. The biggest lesson I learned from that is what kind of love do I want in my life? What am I going to stand for or not stand for? And and something I always stand by in my life is like, I'm not settling. I'm not settling. And that can mean, that just means people got to meet me where I'm at.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  I've worked too hard to feel how I feel today. For jobs, experiences, people, relationships, lovers, friends, whatever it is, like, got to meet me here. And it doesn't mean you can't compromise with people. That's different. But I just allow a certain kind of thing in my life and.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:02Steven Bartlett?

  Your grandmother.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  My grandmother.

• 18:05Steven Bartlett?

  Got a tattoo on your left wrist.

• 18:08Speaker 00

  Oh, wow, yes.

• 18:09Steven Bartlett?

  I didn't, I saw you pulling out your left wrist, so I just went with it. I love you.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Yes, so.

• 18:16Steven Bartlett?

  What role did she play in this picture?

• 18:19Speaker 00

  So she, her name was Karen and she was my dad's mom. And my grandmother, rest in peace, you amazing soul. She was the coolest badass woman I've ever met.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  She taught me about things that maybe I shouldn't have learned at such a young age. She would put on Oprah when Oprah would be talking about really heavy topics. She put on the movie Grease when I was a kid and that was a movie where I'm like, I want to do that.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  And I, I don't know where you land within the medium psychic space, but I've talked to, I do, I practice Reiki with this woman named Katie, who always senses my grandmother's energy. And and every kind of experience like that, my grandmother's energy has showed up. So I truly believe that she is here with me. But she was just smart and she thought.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Differently than anyone in my family and as an adult, I can look back and think, I'm so much like her. Like, I just, I miss her. She died really young. She died of emphysema. And it's shocking I never picked up smoking because I, I told you I'm like an extremist, but I've never been a smoker because of her. And, um, yeah, she died in her mid 60s. But she was so funny. Like, she, she had breathing tubes on and she smoked until the day she died still. But that just like showed you who she was. She just was a powerhouse and so funny. Um, and I miss her. I miss her all the time. I, and it, and it's kind

• 20:09Speaker 00

  of sad because I don't have that many pictures of her because it was before I had a cellphone and she died when I was 15. So I maybe had just gotten one of those Sidekicks or Nokia phones. And I just don't have that much tangible memories of her.

• 20:27Steven Bartlett?

  You're named after her, though, right?

• 20:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Karen Lucille. And so she definitely lives on in me in that way. And, um, yeah, that's nice to chat about her. Thank you for bringing her up.

• 20:42Steven Bartlett?

  I was really inspired by, um, the love your mother must have had for you, but also really the belief she must have had in you to move to LA with you when you were 15. I'm assuming purely so you could pursue a career in Hollywood at 15 years old.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's totally bizarre. And when I tell people that, I just have to set the tone. My mom was not a stage mom at all. And by that, I mean, she wasn't, it was never forced upon me. I, she just always encouraged me to follow this dream, which is so incredible because you hear of so many people where it's the opposite, where the parents are forcing a dream you don't really want on to you. And she just instilled a lot of willpower. My mom is such a hard worker. I do believe I have my, I get my drive and work ethic from her. And she's so selfless. Like, she would give her last penny to anyone and just

• 21:40Speaker 00

  loves with her entire heart. Um, and my sis, my mom and I have definitely had our...

• 21:49Speaker 00

  Rough moments in, over the course of our lives. But we're in such a beautiful place now where we really can show up exactly how we are without getting triggered or defensive. Because we're really similar in the way we approach our emotions, I guess. And so we kind of have butted heads at times. But she's always been my just biggest fan. And I have no idea how, because I often think, if I had a daughter who wanted to do what I want to do, would I do that? I don't know. How do you know? It's kind of insane, isn't it?

• 22:30Steven Bartlett?

  It is insane.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Thanks, Mom, for being insane. I love you for it. Like, thank God. But it was a risk, for sure.

• 22:39Steven Bartlett?

  And she came and worked as a nurse?

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, so she, the only way we could afford to live out here, because as you know, cost of living is insane. She was a travel nurse, which is kind of an agency for nurses that live across the world. And they could place her at a hospital and they would pay for our rent and she would make a little extra money. But I mean, we were kind of barely getting by, barely getting by. And yeah, I feel like there was always kind of financial worry there, but we always, she always made it work. We always figured it out.

• 23:16Steven Bartlett?

  And by sort of 16, you start working in TV shows and stuff out here in LA?

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, so the first, so this is a really cool story to tell you, because I just got back from Vancouver. But the first show I ever did, the first series, was called Bionic Woman. It was a remake of a show, really popular show from the 70s, 80s on NBC. And I got cast as the little sister. And we lived in Vancouver in this building right by the sea line. And then I, now, 19 years later, just was working up there again. And I look out the window of the building I was living in, it's the exact same building my mom lived in. And I'm like, that is just...

• 23:58Speaker 00

  The universe full circle. It was the coolest full circle moment of being 16 there with my mom on my first job to everything that's transpired to me being 33, working there now. It was just like this really incredible moment. But, but yeah, I started kind of working, supporting myself since 17. And then I think my mom saw that I somewhat had a good head on my shoulders by 18, and then she moved back to Tennessee.

• 24:30Steven Bartlett?

  That period between you being 16 and 19, when you're living out in LA predominantly, before, you know, you get cast for Pretty Little Liars, how do you feel about that chapter of your life? When you reflect on that, that chapter, that 16 to 19 year old chapter? What do you think?

• 24:49Speaker 00

  It's so interesting because I actually haven't, seeing this building in Vancouver was the first time I had thought about that time in my life in 10 years. I actually haven't sat and thought about.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  I don't know, I also feel like so much of my memories are kind of blurry from that time. I

• 25:16Speaker 00

  It's so weird, like I can't even answer that question. I think, I think I was very grateful to be in LA and pursuing this dream, but that was kind of the beginning of it all, of, of what was to come. Like, I wish I could go back and tell my 16 year old self, like buckle up, girl, we're gonna get through this, but we're gonna go through some shit, you know? I, and I, I've been open about this before, like I struggled with a eating disorder most of my teen years up until like mid twenties. And it, it was around that time that it had kind of, that was like turned up to a 10. And I, and it, I mean, it's all in

• 25:57Speaker 00

  direct correlation with moving to a new city, throwing myself into the world of acting. Like, I think my life kind of fell out of control in a way, and my emotions fell out of control. And body stuff, food stuff is all needing, needing to control. And

• 26:19Speaker 00

  So yeah, I mean, I guess I look back on that time and I have compassion now. Like, I don't want to say I feel sorry for myself, but

• 26:31Speaker 00

  I do believe in like, I mean, I was a teenager, but all the inner child work where you just kind of see that image of you, young you, and really hold space for that and really speak kindly to yourself. But honestly, I don't really remember a lot more. And I don't know if that's weird, but I also feel that similarly about my childhood. I have certain memories, but I don't know, maybe I was disassociating a lot. I told you I lived in my head a ton, so I don't know. It seems like so much has happened since then.

• 27:10Steven Bartlett?

  Eating disorders.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:11Steven Bartlett?

  How do I, how do I understand that? As someone that's never experienced an eating disorder, how do I, how do I understand that? Is there a moment where you've realized that there's a, there's a problem or you notice behavior patterns that you think are unhealthy, to say the least?

• 27:27Speaker 00

  I think from anything that disrupts your life or your happiness or your relationships or your career, like, that can be described as a problem. And I think for me, it was all I thought about from the moment I woke up until I went to bed at night. How much should I eat? How much should I work out? I would step on a scale 30 times a day. I was eating so little that it was shocking. And it wasn't really ever about, that's a lie. It was about the way I looked at, at one point, because I thought if I could just be this number or this goal weight, then I'll be enough. Because it all rooted back to, I don't feel enough. I don't feel like enough.

• 28:13Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 28:16Speaker 00

  And that's still a question I'm figuring out because it self-worth and knowing I'm enough, like where did the thought of I'm not enough come from? Did I hear it when I was a kid? I don't know. Did I hear something that resonated as you're not enough? Maybe.

• 28:33Steven Bartlett?

  You know Gabor Maté? Do you know who that is?

• 28:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 28:35Steven Bartlett?

  Gabor Maté? He came on my podcast. He's maybe the leading therapist psychologist in the world on like childhood trauma. And much of the crux of what he talks about is where we learn this idea that we're not enough as kids. One of the things he said to me, which is still sat with me is he said to me, he goes, children are narcissists. He goes, when the parents are arguing, the child thinks it's about them.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:57Steven Bartlett?

  And when he said that to me, I go, oh, my God. It explains so much.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Or sponges.

• 29:01Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. So but we interpret that situation, like that home life situation or whatever, as like, this is about me.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so now I can look back and say, maybe as a kid, I thought my parents got divorced because of me. Maybe I, you know, there's a million different scenarios. So I'm certain I learned it at a young age. And as kids, none of us come out unscathed, right? Like, we all take on some sort of pain and trauma from somewhere or someone. But mine manifested as an eating disorder initially, which then led to other issues. But it all started, because I always try to think, when? When did it begin? When did this obsession begin? And I want to say it was maybe around like 13 or 14 when I had, no, no, no.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  Like 14, 15 was starting homeschooling and I had to start logging my exercise hours. And

• 29:59Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 29:59Speaker 00

  It was for PE and you had to say, I'm do, I did PE today for X amount of time. And that's the only thing I can think of that started this obsession with. Movement and then I saw my body kind of change and then I started restricting eating. And then it became, like I said, just it slowly just grew and grew to something that I could not enjoy life. I could not have a conversation. I could not focus on anything. It's a miracle that I even started working and could focus on acting because it was, when I mean it was a constant loop. I don't know how I got out of it.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  And I, I mean, the thing with eating disorders is it can always creep back up on you. And there are days when I don't feel like my best self, but I love myself enough now to nourish my body. And it's so sad to think that I hated myself so much that I couldn't even give it basic needs like food. Are you kidding me? Like that is so tragic and so many people don't understand the space of an eating disorder because there's a spectrum and I can only speak from my point of view, which I mean, I don't, I really don't know any woman that has a normal relationship to their body or to food.

• 31:20Speaker 00

  You know, because society makes it really freaking hard to like the way you look. Social media is, can be a really beautiful place and you're doing such an amazing thing with the work you do and like changing lives. But like the social, social media can be poison. I have to really limit what, who I look at, what I look at. And I'm a grown adult and it feels silly, but you have to like curate your life to keep your mind and soul and spirit feeling good. I always feel a little uncomfortable talking about an eating disorder because I'm, I'm sensitive. And I know that it can be triggering and hard for people to talk about food and bodies.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  And people don't understand how someone who objectively is thin could think they were overweight. But I, and I can't explain it, but that's just what I saw and what I felt. And it, and now I can look back and see photos and think, oh my God, I was so, I, I wasn't seeing reality. You just create this narrative in your head that's scary and dark. And, and it ultimately wasn't about the way I looked. It was about.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  So much more, which is, which is, I had no self-worth. Incredibly low self-worth. And, and I really owe it to, like, getting out of that. I dated a guy for a long time who was Italian. I mean, it sounds so silly. It's like, how did you get help? It wasn't through therapy. I didn't start doing therapy until my early twenties for a different reason. But people always ask, how did you survive those horrible years of your eating disorder?

• 33:09Speaker 00

  It was my Italian boyfriend who loved and appreciated food. And he would make us go to dinner and I learned to enjoy food again. And it was like, each year that went by, I started to feel better and better. And then I booked Pretty Little Liars and it got a little dodgy again and scary. But I learned other coping mechanisms that worked for a while until they didn't. But, but now my relationship, I never thought I could call myself a foodie. Cause today, like, I love food. That's how I experience a new city or a culture. Like, I just appreciate it and I know that we need food to survive. And, and I like, I like and love and respect my body too. If I'm tired, I rest.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  If I wanna work out, I work out. I, I can just sort of navigate feeling uncomfortable so much better these days.

• 34:03Steven Bartlett?

  Were you ever given, given a diagnosis for that disorder? Was there other medical intervention?

• 34:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did. My mom, shortly before she moved to Tennessee, you know, she recognized it was a problem and she helped in the best way she knew how. But I'm sure as a parent, she felt helpless and felt like it was her fault, maybe. I went to a therapist only a handful of times where that was the first time I had heard you're anorexic. And that word just sounds so daunting and scary. But, I mean, I, I've never been in denial though. Like, I've always had, I always knew it wasn't normal behavior. Like, I knew that my hair shouldn't be falling out. And then I knew that I shouldn't be able to see every bone in my body. But you get like addicted to this feeling of controlling your own body.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  And, um, so I kind of knew it was a problem, but I didn't know what anorexia meant until this therapist had told me. That, that was probably like age.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Seventeen.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I haven't thought about all that in a long time, too, because I'm so on the other side of it. And it's nice. It's so nice to not have that.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Hamster wheel in your head about that all the time.

• 35:26Steven Bartlett?

  Being in, um, being in LA, being in the entertainment industry is a, I imagine a tricky place to be when you're contending with issues of, you know, eating disorders and because of the influence of, you know, advertising and movies, especially back then. Um, social media, etc.

• 35:49Steven Bartlett?

  I, yeah, I just can't, yeah, I can't, having, I've never experienced an eating disorder before, but then thinking about being in this environment.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, what was interesting is that it started before I even moved to LA. The eating disorder was for when I was like thirteen, before I'd even thought about, you know, before I had found success. So,

• 36:13Speaker 00

  so I'm certain the things I've dealt with in my life, I would have dealt with anyway. It just might be on the opposite end of the spectrum, because I think that the reasonings behind all of these things are, those are old feelings. That's old stuff that has been ruminating for a while. But, yeah, I mean, this industry is at a different point now where so many people are accepted, different types of people, different bodies, everything. And it's such a beautiful place, I think the industry is heading, especially for a woman. But when I was starting out, it wasn't really that way. And then I like book a show that's called Pretty Little Liars. What? It's so, I'm like, okay, well, we gotta be pretty and we gotta be little.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Okay, well, we got this. And, and you're also twenty years old where everyone wants to look a certain way. Like that age, you all wanna look the same and you wanna. You know, it just all flared up again. And it was all I thought about again, you know, because I thought I had overcome it. And then, but then it became a thing of control. It wasn't, and then it ultimately, it wasn't about wanting to be pretty or little. It was about, this is scary. My life has completely shifted overnight. Millions of people are seeing my face. Instagram had just started. You know, it was just sort of beginning. My first post ever on Instagram was me and of season one of Pretty Little Liars.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  And it was like my life was now under a magnifying glass. I felt out of control. Uh oh, guess we gotta control the way I look again, and then I'll be enough. And then people will like me. How do, my, my MO for so much of my life was, how can I get people to like me? Even though I hated myself. And like, real confidence is not, I read my whole Instagram now is just like silly affirmations, but it helps. But I read something the other day that's, true confidence is not, I hope they like me. It's some, I'm paraphrasing, but not, I hope they like me. It's, I'm okay and know who I am, even if they don't. And yes, that's exactly what it is.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  And that confidence is what I've been searching for my whole life. And to know that, and to show up anywhere I go, with anyone, with new people, and say, I'm accepted because I accept myself. I have value because I value myself. You can put me in any situation, anything, I truly mean this, and I have the confidence that I'll get through it, sober and happy. And it's been one hell of a journey. And I like, truly, I'm not gonna cry again. I wouldn't have changed anything. I literally would not have changed any dark moment, situation, because of perspective and empathy I've gained from that, I would not have otherwise.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  So.

• 39:12Steven Bartlett?

  You said I hated myself.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  I know, it's such a strong word. And it makes me sad that I felt that way. Maybe hate's a strong word. I do this sometimes too. I'll say something, then I'll backtrack and try to like, paint it prettier.

• 39:24Steven Bartlett?

  That's fine.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  But things are ugly sometimes, right? Yeah, I, maybe it's more that I...

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Just didn't feel worthy of the things I had in my life. I didn't feel deserving because a lot of my life post-success, I did not feel worthy of the success or the career or the people in my life. It was like this limiting belief that you're a fraud. If people really knew who you were, they wouldn't like you. Like you're worthless, you don't deserve this. And even though I wasn't actually saying those things, like subconsciously, that's what was happening, I think, because I would keep making the same mistakes and be like, well, why is this happening? It's because I had this belief that I didn't deserve any of it.

• 40:15Steven Bartlett?

  When you live with that sort of lack of self-worth, it manifests itself in a variety of ways. One of them you talked about already, which is trying to gain control over something. Because then if I can control this, maybe I'll garner a bit of sort of self-worth from the scales or the mirror, whatever it might be. What are the other ways that that manifested itself in your life? That lack of self-worth? I've heard you talk about people pleasing.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:39Steven Bartlett?

  But you said something curious a second ago. You said that the eating disorder was the start of it.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 40:46Steven Bartlett?

  And then you said you were going to go on to say something else.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it all kind of ties in together. I think the people pleasing is such a big thing I've been working through in my life. Because what people pleasing does is you're doing things that aren't authentic. You're doing things you don't want to do. What does that do? Well, it builds anger and resentment. Well, then if you repress that anger and resentment, then what happens? Well, it's going to come out some way. And for me, my, like for such a small human, I have so much rage that I have now sorted through. But for so much, I just bottled up that rage.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  And for me, I, the coping mechanisms I discovered worked for me were incredibly self-destructive and self-sabotaging. And I am...

• 41:42Speaker 00

  I'm not sure when this podcast comes out and I had, I've never talked publicly until yesterday about being sober. I have a little over a year of sobriety, which, you know, the people in my life, my friends, my family, who are just the greatest people in the world and have stood by my side for, you know, I've been working on getting sober since I was 20, I'm 33. It takes time. It took time and it took patience with myself. I mean, this is a topic I could talk about until the end of time, but basically what alcohol did for me, it did a couple of things.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  It was like, it was like this feeling of, oh my God, this is what I've been searching for my whole life. I'm my truest self, right? Like, I'm so much funnier and cooler and people like me. That's all bullshit. Guess what? Not true. I was not myself, not my truest self. But it orig- it started with, wow, I can be free and funny and boys will like me. This is when I'm younger, right? And I just like held on to that belief that real Lucy came out when she was drinking. Guess what? Real Lucy did come out, but it was that rage and pain that I had been holding on to for so long.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  But it also quieted my mind. I feel like, and I'm not the only person on the planet that deals with this, but like my brain just goes, doesn't shut off. It's exhausting. But when I drank, because I, I was like textbook binge drinker, like blackout, wouldn't remember what I did, what I said, which is scary. And, and it's also hard to explain that type of drinking to someone because

• 43:36Speaker 00

  People who haven't experienced it or dealt with it personally, like you, addiction is such a a topic that

• 43:44Speaker 00

  is still so taboo because it's because people would just tell me, well, Lucy, don't drink. Oh, thank you. Oh, okay. Thank you so much. I'll try that. Thanks.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  But now it is that. Now it's like, okay, I just don't pick up the first drink and I'm fine. Because what would happen for me is I'd pick up the first drink, I'd like the feeling, I'd have another drink, I'd really like the feeling. And then it was past drink two, don't remember. I wouldn't remember the rest of the night.

• 44:13Steven Bartlett?

  Through what period of your life was this, sorry? Since you were young?

• 44:16Speaker 00

  I've had an issue. I from my very first experience drinking, which was like age 14, up until a year ago, I have had a problem. I've never had a a period of my life where I was a normal moderate drinker. It was always, let's go, let's, let's just, I was willing to just go to this crazy dark place every time. And, you know, of course, I tried trying to be a moderate drinker, just having to my, I have an allergy to alcohol. I cannot drink. I view it as an allergy to alcohol. My brain doesn't work the same way as someone who can just have a glass of wine.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  It always wants more. It's like craving that that feeling.

• 45:04Steven Bartlett?

  My best friend has just actually finished a documentary on this subject matter. He was my best friend, but also my business partner for many years. And the, the, the point where he realized he had a problem, we kind of had a bit of a face to face because he had done so much damage. And there was one particular instance where he did so much damage to himself, our company, our team members, that we, we met on a Sunday and we, we basically, it was that kind of ultimatum moment, which is you're gonna have to leave.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:30Steven Bartlett?

  You know?

• 45:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:31Steven Bartlett?

  You can do a lot of damage, right? When you're, when you have that relationship with alcohol and you have an addiction to alcohol and it brings out that side of you. Did you ever have moments like that where people close to you said?

• 45:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, many times and I but it's one of those things I I remember the point in my life where I'm like I woke up a morning after drinking and it was when I wanted to keep drinking I was like oh my reaction to alcohol is different than my friends like this is different and I've known I had a problem this whole time I was there was never a moment where I thought I was normal there had been moments where I didn't want to change because I'm like I'm not giving this up are you kidding me like who would I be if I can't have fun and let loose and drink but I had many times my manager of 19 years who is an angel truly an earth angel I believe has saved my life at times

• 46:29Speaker 00

  like this woman has been there for me she's had hard conversations with me I've had friends who've tough loved me but I've had friends who say we can't until you do X Y and Z I've always been shown love and support but the thing about addiction or just life in general like you gotta want something for yourself like I had so many things happen where you would have thought I would change I've had I tried to change for boyfriends I tried to change for my mom I tried to change for my career I tried to change for vain reasons I'm like well I'll look younger and be skinnier I'll stop drinking for that

• 47:06Speaker 00

  none of that shit works I had to and wanted to get sober January 2nd 2022 because I said I deserve more I deserve more out of this life I have to try it a different way and I have to be willing to just commit to it you know because binge drinking I would be sober for three months then relapse be sober for a week relapse and I never the the really crazy thing is I never let it get in the way of my job because my career has always been so important But when I'd go home at night, it would just be like so dark and I'd be so in my head about it. But I.

• 47:51Steven Bartlett?

  It would be so dark. I was thinking then, because my business partner described it as he, there was a pain he was trying to escape, which we just never realized. He had a pain in his, in his life, in his mind. I would find him downstairs through him in the morning, in the laundry room with the lights off, drinking. I thought, oh, this guy's just, just, he just loves alcohol, right?

• 48:09Speaker 00

  That's what people think, or like, oh, you like to party.

• 48:11Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, exactly. But, but I came to learn that there was a pain he was escaping that he hadn't addressed.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:16Steven Bartlett?

  Is that the same in your situation where there was an unaddressed pain or issue that you think you were using alcohol as a escape mechanism for?

• 48:24Speaker 00

  Yes, definitely. I mean, alcohol isn't the problem. The problem is this feeling inside of me. Alcohol was the solution, you know, for a while it was my solution. I'm like, oh, I don't have to think about being good enough. Or, or whatever the problem was, like, it worked for a really long time until it just left me feeling depressed, anxious, lonely, just worthless. But there is a big misconception about people who struggle in this way is that, oh, they're weak. They just can't not do it. Or they like to party, or they just like booze. It's so much more than that. And, um, yeah, for me, it was definitely old stuff.

• 49:10Speaker 00

  Old feelings, pain. I, I, I do think that, like I said, I, I would have struggled with this no matter what I did for a living. But I think finding success at an early age and the people pleasing and, and, and trying to be what people wanted me to be, made me feel like a fraud, right? Because like now I can show up exactly who I am and share my story. And to actually be able to talk about this is so freeing because it doesn't, it's not like I'm, it's chaining me down anymore. Like it, it takes the power away from it. Like I can be Lucy, which is not always cute at times, you know?

• 49:50Speaker 00

  Like it's dark and disgusting and scary. And that's what makes us all complex, amazing, beautiful human beings is we've all got this shadow self.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  And

• 50:01Steven Bartlett?

  Were you happy in that chapter, that sixteen to nineteen chapter?

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I thought I was. I'm like, I'm getting a big paycheck. I'm happy. I'm no, like, that's not real happiness. You know, you I had told myself the lies of you're happy. Or I felt guilty for not being happy because how could I not be happy? I had X, Y, and nobody wants to hear about someone in my position being unhappy. Right? Like, let's just be real. Nobody wants to really hear about that. But at the end of the day, I've had to allow, and I believed that too. I ran with that. Lucy, you don't deserve to be unhappy. How dare you feel these things? But now I know I'm a human being and everything's relative.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  And I it's OK for me to have these very human experiences. And I've found the people in my life that I can talk to about it. And was I happy? I had moments of being very happy, but not like this, not like this.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Wherever I'm at in life right now, it feels peaceful, which I used to call boredom. I have moments where I'm bored. I'm like, ooh, what kind of fire can I start today? But then I rein that back in.

• 51:21Steven Bartlett?

  Pretty Little Liars.

• 51:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:23Steven Bartlett?

  Twenty years old.

• 51:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:25Steven Bartlett?

  You were doing another show, right, called Privileged?

• 51:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:28Steven Bartlett?

  Privileged, yeah? And they cancelled that show? And that led to you being cast for Pretty Little Liars?

• 51:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:34Steven Bartlett?

  Which is pretty amazing.

• 51:35Speaker 00

  The universe is simpaticious. Yeah.

• 51:38Steven Bartlett?

  Rejection can lead to redirection.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  That is, there's a really cool story there. So I did this show called Privileged. They cancelled it. I was devastated and the same producer said, hey, we have this script. It's based off of a book. We think you'd be great for it. And they said, it's called Pretty Little Liars. And I'm like, oh, I was such a huge fan of those books. I read the script and it was the first time I had ever been offered something. And so we get this offer, but at the same time, so at this point, it's just a pilot. And no one knew.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  What the success of it would be, but at the same time I got that offer, I got the offer for something else, which was like a really, I don't even remember what it was called, but it was a really shitty TV movie that I don't even think, did it get made? Yes, it did get made. And I at one point was thinking, I want to take this movie because there was a really cute guy attached to it. You can see where that's where my head was at was let's choose a part because of a cute guy. And then it was almost overnight where I just woke up the next morning and said, you know what? No. Cause I would have had to choose between the two. I said, I think I should choose the show. Well, thank God.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Thank God. But, but it is such a great example of how one door closes, another one opens. Nothing is by coincidence in this life. I firmly believe that. I think that everything happens exactly how it should. And like having an open mind and seeing the lesson and everything makes for a happier life too. But yeah, it's crazy to think about that time.

• 53:21Steven Bartlett?

  And that, I mean, Pretty Little Liars became, in your own words, the biggest show in the world at one point.

• 53:26Speaker 00

  Yes. I mean, I think.

• 53:28Steven Bartlett?

  I mean, if it's one, two, or three, I mean, it's still, the outcome is still the same, that your life irrevocably changes from that moment onwards. For better and for worse, one might guess.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  I think, yes.

• 53:46Steven Bartlett?

  If that's true, tell me why on both ends of that spectrum.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay. I mean, I, it was a dream job. Like I could, I now had the success I had wanted and the notoriety. I felt valued and appreciated and.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Um, on a super, in a superficial way for bits and moments. There were times when I thought my act, there were times when I didn't feel like I was being utilized in the right way. I'm like, I have so much more to offer. Please let me, you know, there were other characters in the show that I wanted, I wanted to be doing the things they were doing. But there were times when I, I felt like I could really show off my talents, I guess. Um, I mean, it, it was the launching pad for my whole career. And, and it's taken a while outside of that show to get people to see me in a different light. And I knew that when you're a part of something that's that big, people are seeing you every week, like people still call me Aria on the street, you know?

• 54:48Speaker 00

  I knew that it was going to be strategic moves for years to get people to see me in a different way. And I feel like I'm at this point now where people are giving me those opportunities, but I've worked really hard for that. I have taken a bunch of different types of roles and different types of characters post that to get to like show, to show myself, but also to show everyone like I'm not a one trick pony and I want to be doing this. And if I'm lucky enough to get to do, I hope I can do this the rest of my life. But, um, it, it helped me hone my craft. I, the fact that that show went for that long is almost unheard of. Like that just doesn't happen anymore. And I always laughed because there was a couple of people on the show where it was

• 55:33Speaker 00

  their first job ever or their first audition ever. And the show went for that long. I'm like, this is not normal, by the way. But it, but it also post that show because I've had some, I don't want to view anything as a failure, but I've had things that were maybe viewed as failures post that. And it kind of, which I'm also grateful for because it, it gave me perspective of.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  You know, life is full of ups and downs and it will always be that way, no matter where I'm at in my career. Like, people aren't always gonna like me or like my work. Every job I do is not gonna be the one that changes my life.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  And I've also realized, like, that's not where my happiness comes from anymore. My happiness is not gonna come from... I love what I do and I find so much joy in it and I love creating. And I love acting in a really new, cool way the last couple of years. But it's always gonna be a roller coaster.

• 56:34Steven Bartlett?

  When we have those successes in life, when the dream we have is realized, we... I think before that, we have an assumption that it'll fix a bunch of stuff.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:41Steven Bartlett?

  Right? So that's, we aim for it, we strive for it, we get there.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:43Steven Bartlett?

  And then in some way, it fails.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Makes you feel worse, yeah.

• 56:46Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, so what didn't it fix? That you thought it might?

• 56:50Speaker 00

  Everything. It fixed literally nothing. If anything, like, there were more problems. It, like, expedited the... all of it, right? Because my life was under a microscope and...

• 57:03Speaker 00

  I mean, it definitely cranked up those dials to 10 when it came to my...

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Body dysmorphia, my self-worth was at an all-time low.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  I just didn't have the tools to... How does anyone navigate that experience? I don't know how you navigate that in a healthy way. And I look back now and I'm like, okay, I guess I handled it in the best way I knew how. Like, I don't look back and shame myself over it all. It's kinda just like, I was a kid and I was struggling. But I was struggling publicly, but no one knew about it. So that was almost harder because I was, like, dealing with all these big things. But I never wanted to talk about it because I was so ashamed.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  And now I'm not ashamed of it, which is why I can talk about it, but...

• 57:56Steven Bartlett?

  Did you talk about it to anybody behind the scenes, what you were struggling with?

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Hmm, no, it was pretty... it was pretty private. Because I didn't wanna be different. I wanted to blend in. And if I talked about having issues, that made me a target. I think people maybe knew I was struggling.

• 58:11Steven Bartlett?

  Was there a darkest day?

• 58:13Speaker 00

  A darkest day?

• 58:14Steven Bartlett?

  Or a patch where, you know?

• 58:17Speaker 00

  I'm like, where do we begin?

• 58:19Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, interesting.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  I had many, many, many what I thought were my emotional rock bottoms, dozens. And so that was why it was so hard is because I'm like, oh, I thought we went to the depths of hell. Like, how do we possibly, how could it be worse? How could, and from the outside, that was, was crazy. No one would have known. So it was like, I was, everything externally didn't match what was happening internally. So then I just felt like a fraud. I was like, this isn't adding up and it's not real and it's not right. I want things to match up and look the same. I just felt like totally undeserving of everything that was happening. Darkest day. Yeah, I mean, I had many, but I'd always pull myself out of it.

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Like, if I have one thing, I'm resilient. Like, I don't really give myself a lot of, that's not true. I do positive affirmations for myself all day these days, but, but I know that my resilience is what's slingshotted me the other way.

• 59:22Steven Bartlett?

  Did you ever think about quitting?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Acting?

• 59:24Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm, but during that period of between 16 and 28, when you left?

• 59:28Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:29Steven Bartlett?

  Seriously?

• 59:30Speaker 00

  Well, not, maybe not seriously, because I didn't know what else I was good at. I didn't think I was interesting. I didn't think I was smart. I didn't, like, all of these things. I truly was like, what would I do? And so I, I, at times had the thought, could I do something else? Could I go home after this? But I never packed my bags or made a call to someone and told them, but, but, but there were times in my twenties where I was just thinking, is this what I want to do? But, but then it became about, it wasn't because I disliked acting. I loved it and I, and I always knew I was good at it, but it was just,

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  how do I manage my emotions and do what I love? I was like, I don't know how to do that. Now I know how to, I mean, I still have bad days, but I, I know how to handle it better. It's hard. It's hard. I, I don't know. It's, it's a constant, you know, starting a new job. I really have to make sure I have my plan in place for what helps me feel safe.

• 1:00:39Steven Bartlett?

  Do you ever ponder if you would have been overall happier for the last thirty-three years had you not been an actress?

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think about that all the time.

• 1:00:49Steven Bartlett?

  What do you think the answer is?

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:00:51Steven Bartlett?

  You think you wouldn't have been happier?

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  No, I mean, maybe I would have had longer periods of happiness, but I do believe that where I'm at now, what I've gone through to get the happiness I have now, like, this is where I'm supposed to be and this is how I'm supposed to feel. And I don't think I would have gotten through that without the job I have or the things I've been through. I know it sounds grateful to say I'm happy that I struggled with addiction or whatever it is, but I am. I just think that in order for me to feel whole and survive is to be

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  creative. And I actually crave creating and acting. And I was, there have been moments in my life where I was scared that, oh, my God, I'm gonna have to keep doing this and not know if I love it. And it was, I did this show, and the moment where it all like happened for me was the show I did called Katie Keane. Short-lived, another short-lived CW series I did. I've had three shows on CW that only went one season. It's kind of a running joke now. Anyway, whatever. Katie Keane, New York. It was the show that made me fall in love with acting because I, I don't, and I don't even know what happened.

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  I mean, it was a great show, great people, so much fun, living in New York, but maybe I stepped into my confidence more?

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just feel grateful that I can say, oh, God, I like what I do, because that would be a bummer, to like, do all these things and then say, and I could, and that's the reality. Like, today, I could say, you know what, I don't want to act anymore. And I know that that's an option. And I know that I'm lucky to know that I have options. Like, I have perspective on that, too. But I also feel lucky that I do want to wake up and say,

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  I want to go. I want to go act today. I want to go work with these people and collaborate.

• 1:02:53Steven Bartlett?

  Did you have a life throughout that, that Pretty Little Liars stint? Was there a, a life outside of the show? Was there?

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:02:59Steven Bartlett?

  Relationships and?

• 1:03:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:00Steven Bartlett?

  Socializing and?

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Tons of failed relationships. No, I, uh, yeah, I had a social life. It was a lot of work. We were doing that nine months out of the year for eight years, but, but yeah, I, I dated and, and it traveled and?

• 1:03:18Steven Bartlett?

  Failed relationships?

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:03:24Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  I, uh?

• 1:03:25Steven Bartlett?

  Why did they fail?

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  I think, well, some of them, we were just young and they're not supposed to work out. But I do think,

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  I, you know, and I'm very careful to not talk poorly about

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  people ever.

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  And I do also realize my part of the equation. I'm not, I've never would point the fingers and say this person. Like, I fully realize why some of those crash and burn because it was, you know, hurt people, hurt people. That's like a classic thing. I just think I was maybe attracting people that were a perfect storm for my?

• 1:04:06Steven Bartlett?

  Low self-worth.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  Low self-worth, chaos. Like, I was attracting,

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  either people that had similar issues as me, and so it felt comfortable, or it felt like, oh, I can focus on this issue or your issue.

• 1:04:22Steven Bartlett?

  And try and fix them.

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  And try and fix them because it gave me a one-up. Or, you know, have you, I'm sure you've read about like, love addiction, like love avoidant love addiction.

• 1:04:32Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, yeah, like attachment styles and stuff.

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I always thought I was a love addict because I just wanted people to like me. I wanted this guy to like me and everything would be fine. But the truth is, I actually think I have fallen more under love avoidant because when people get too close, oop, they're gonna see me, they're gonna know who I really am, and they're gonna leave. So I'm gonna blow this thing up before they leave me. But I can tend to fall into

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Love addiction behavior if they like out avoid me. Does that make sense? So if someone is more avoidant than I am. Anyway, so yes, failed relationships, but.

• 1:05:10Steven Bartlett?

  But the we, the first model of love we learn is our, our parents.

• 1:05:14Speaker 00

  No, I totally get it. I, I grew up thinking love wasn't safe or.

• 1:05:18Steven Bartlett?

  Safe same.

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Or.

• 1:05:20Steven Bartlett?

  I thought it was prison.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Steven Bartlett?

  That's what I.

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  Or if love is this, I don't want that. Are you kidding me? So I never really had a model of what a relationship should be.

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  And, and I maybe because my parents got divorced and I spent more time with my mom that I was drawing in more people who were similar to my dad. You know, there's that element.

• 1:05:46Steven Bartlett?

  Where are you now?

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  With my, with my dad?

• 1:05:49Steven Bartlett?

  With your.

• 1:05:50Speaker 00

  With my relationships?

• 1:05:51Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, with, with, on that journey of like. Understanding love and how to form an attachment with someone in a healthy way.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Steven Bartlett?

  With the right person.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  I think the only, if I, you know, I'm single now, but the, in order for me to want to be in a relationship, it goes back to like meeting me where I'm at. And what by that, I mean, like I, I think that the type of relationship I'm seeking out is with another person who is whole and doesn't need me and doesn't need this relationship to give them an identity. Um, and I think that that is where people thrive is when people have really gone inward and know their strengths and weaknesses and know what they have to offer and are willing to grow and heal and evolve. And, um, and I've never had that.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Like I've never had a relationship that felt safe or like I could really show up as myself.

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  I do think that, you know, being sober is really important to me. And like, that's my number one priority because I know that when I do that, everything else is fine. So I, I'd love to find someone who. Has an understanding of that element of my life, too. I mean, I'm so open to it and ready, but I also am not desperate for it. Like, I'm not needing, because I, like many people, used men and relationships to fill a void. Like, it's easy to get addicted to people, too. And that's actually the easiest. It's like, oh, I have a really cool new boyfriend. Like, I can focus on this for a year and not focus on what I should be focusing on. And now I just, yeah, I just feel open.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  And whatever is coming my way, I'm ready for it. I really believe that.

• 1:07:45Steven Bartlett?

  Life After Pretty Little Liars.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Steven Bartlett?

  You referenced this earlier. I can't imagine the situation where something is everything. It's nine months a year working. When you're not working, you're doing interviews about the thing. Everyone stops you everywhere you go to talk about it. It's all consuming and then it ends.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was weird. It was weird and bizarre and scary. Because that level of notoriety and fame, success, whatever you want to call it, that is not really sustainable. And will I ever reach that again in my career? Maybe, who knows? I don't know, but if I don't, it's okay. But because it was here for so long, for most of my twenties, and then when the show stopped and things did shift, like, I wasn't getting certain calls. Like, I wasn't being invited to certain things. People move on quickly, right? Like, people just love content. Like, they will move on to a new show.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  And it was so scary to be like, well, where do I fit in? Will people remember me? And it's like chasing this high of whatever that experience was. And then I came to realize, like, that's so exhausting. Like, I feel like I'm okay now if I were to just do jobs under the radar for the rest of my life. You know? I...

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Like I said, I mentioned earlier, like having a couple of failed experiences post Pretty Little Liars, like really gave me, kind of grounded me in, in a cool way. I feel like I needed that.

• 1:09:30Steven Bartlett?

  Was, you described it as a dark time, that the post PLL, Pretty Little Liars.

• 1:09:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Steven Bartlett?

  Um, phase of your life.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Steven Bartlett?

  And that's because you've got like, I guess, maybe you've got a, I'm assuming here, but you've got to re, refine up who you are again, outside of the show?

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  It was that, it was like, am I going to work again?

• 1:09:52Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, really?

• 1:09:52Speaker 00

  I think we, not we all, I've had some conversations with people in this, a similar position where

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  I wanted to work, but you didn't, because people only want to see you as that one thing. And I, I'm also grateful for that period because then that was when I got to discover who I am outside of that. Who am I outside of my job?

• 1:10:16Steven Bartlett?

  Who are you?

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  Who, I can say that I,

• 1:10:25Speaker 00

  I've always wanted to

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  lead authentically and to show up however I am at any given moment, whatever that looks like. And I have not been able to do that until recently. I feel like I am confident in what I have to offer. I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm a good friend. I'm loyal. I'm honest to a fault. If you're in my circle, I'll have your back, no matter the situation. I talk about the hard shit. I lead with my heart. I believe in justice more than anything, even if it's like I see someone cutting someone in line, like that's not right. I'm passionate as hell. And I do believe my intentions with people are good.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  And at the end of the day, I can sleep at night really well because I like who I am. And it's just as simple as that. I like my choices.

• 1:11:21Steven Bartlett?

  But as you say, that's been a journey, right?

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:24Steven Bartlett?

  You used the word earlier, you used the word compassion to describe, you know, you talk about that, like inner child work that you've done.

• 1:11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Steven Bartlett?

  How do you feel about that person that you that went through that journey? What would you say to that person if they were sat on a chair, they were on a third chair on this table?

• 1:11:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Steven Bartlett?

  What would you try and?

• 1:11:46Speaker 00

  I I've actually done that exercise where you write a letter to your younger self. And um, I feel I feel so badly now that I shunned her and like didn't. I'm gonna talk about myself as a her and me. This is me, younger me is her. I didn't give her a chance to speak up, like whereas now I'm like, what was hurting you so bad that you needed to do that? Like, I kind of give her the stage to talk about her feelings. And I really truly believe that I was handling it in the best way I knew how at the time. Now I would handle it differently because I have the tools.

• 1:12:26Speaker 00

  I have this like spiritual emotional tool belt that if I'm feeling sad or whatever, I'm like, okay, we'll do this. But I didn't know, I didn't know any better. And I was doing the best I could. And I am proud of

• 1:12:43Speaker 00

  that of my younger self because we went through a lot, like more things than I could ever possibly say in a podcast. And so many people don't even know about that part of me. But it was hard and dark and maybe I shouldn't have even gotten out of it. And I did, and that's so cool. And I feel brave and courageous and and I know that I went through those things to talk about it. Why else do you go through shit? Like, you're you're supposed to share your experiences because it will reach someone. And um, I just compassion is the perfect word for my younger self.

• 1:13:26Steven Bartlett?

  When we when we talk in in hindsight, we often create the impression that, and I do this a lot, that everything is great now. And that's just like not the nature of life, right? Life continues to be a roller coaster.

• 1:13:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Steven Bartlett?

  What are the things now that you're still you still work on?

• 1:13:44Speaker 00

  Oh, boy, I'm so emotionally impulsive and responsive, like because I'm so.

• 1:13:54Speaker 00

  I guess the word is passionate, but I

• 1:13:58Speaker 00

  I really Sometimes it's hard for me to see all sides of the coin and like see someone else's perspective. I and I work on that a lot. I

• 1:14:11Speaker 00

  I don't have all the patience in the world. But I I struggle with what people think of me a lot. I struggle with

• 1:14:23Speaker 00

  what am I doing? Why are you here? What are you talking about? Like those that that inner critic is loud sometimes.

• 1:14:35Steven Bartlett?

  It's it's really, what have you done in terms of? You know, you struggle with what people think about you sometimes. You've got like shitloads of followers. You know, you've got a lot of people that are giving their opinion on you at all times.

• 1:14:50Steven Bartlett?

  What have you done in terms of practical steps to protect yourself? Well, I've read somewhere that you went, you did like a rehab, like a digital rehab at some point in your life.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  I mean, I do my own version of digital detoxing, which is simply, it's not the first thing I look at in the morning. I don't grab for my phone and I turn my phone on do not disturb at like seven and I don't look at it until the morning unless it's to text Kate every day. But I

• 1:15:18Steven Bartlett?

  Were you addicted to your phone?

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  I'm still addicted to my phone. It's nuts. I'm like, yeah, I can go without getting wifi on this two hour flight. Cut to me putting in my credit card info. It's so and it's this need. It's not to to know what people are thinking of me, but I am addicted to being available all the time. And that and I feel we're all guilty of that, like just being glued to this phone and texting back immediately or I don't feel the pressure to.

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  Like socially, like on social media, I don't feel that pressure to need to always be present anymore. A lot of times in my career, I have felt like it's expected and that can feel a little draining because unless something feels authentic, I don't want to do it. I don't want to have to do it. I feel like I'm at this point now in my career where I don't need to. So I kind of just do what I want, which is nice and freeing. But I do think it's important to

• 1:16:20Speaker 00

  disconnect and that looks different for everyone.

• 1:16:24Steven Bartlett?

  30s. I'm in my 30s as well.

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  Congratulations.

• 1:16:28Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you.

• 1:16:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's nice, isn't it?

• 1:16:30Steven Bartlett?

  It's nice. It's really nice. 20s is always, well, for me, it was a bit of a mess. Trying to figure yourself out and, you know, dealing with all these emotions and trying to, whatever. But in this next chapter of your life, what are you manifesting for Lucy?

• 1:16:46Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 1:16:49Speaker 00

  I mean, here's something I've been working on recently because I am truly a believer in creating the life you want. I believe our thoughts are powerful. Our thoughts create everything. But I think where I've gotten stuck or in trouble, or where a lot of people might be stuck, is that we, you know, we manifest a person, a job, whatever, but then we hold on too tightly to the expectation of what that is. So it's like now I'm at this point where I want to manifest specific things, but be okay if it doesn't work out exactly how I think. And kind of looking at it as being kind of neutral with life. It's just like living freely, like

• 1:17:32Speaker 00

  going with the flow. I don't typically go with the flow. I'm not a go with the flow kind of gal.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

  But I, you know, my priorities are a little different now. Like I do want a family. I think recently I decided I do want kids. I have two lovely dogs. My goal now, I want to farm with goats and chickens and so many dogs. And I just want to keep, you know, I can say so many things about my career. And if I'm lucky enough to work and create and do all the roles I want to do, like that's freaking amazing. But mainly, I love.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Discovering more about myself and why I am the way I am and why people are the way they are. Like, I think this whole journey of self-discovery and self-healing is one that's constant. There is no end goal. And I'm just gonna keep, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So I just wanna keep on this really beautiful path that I'm on.

• 1:18:27Steven Bartlett?

  You proud of yourself?

• 1:18:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And it's not for the reasons you might think. I mean, I'm proud of my work ethic and the things that I've accomplished, but I'm proud that I've faced what I thought were my worst fears about myself. I am proud of how I show up every day. I'm proud of

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  how I treat people. I'm proud of having this conversation with you. I just knew, I was like, okay, well, I'm not gonna have any expectations about what this is gonna be. I'm just gonna follow his lead. And you present such a safe space and I'm grateful that you allowed me to be myself.

• 1:19:17Steven Bartlett?

  I'm gonna ask you a really interesting question. I don't think I've ever asked-

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna cry again. What is wrong with me? Okay, go ahead.

• 1:19:25Steven Bartlett?

  Why does that make you emotional?

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Because I don't really, I feel like I, I think it's because I am proud of myself. I think it's because I don't always have these conversations, or I haven't always shown up how I wanna show up. I cry because this is just who I am today. I'm a weepy, emotional version of myself and-

• 1:19:51Steven Bartlett?

  You spent a long time acting, right?

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Steven Bartlett?

  Literally.

• 1:19:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:02Steven Bartlett?

  So I've come to learn so much from doing this show about the negative effect of prolonged periods of living outside of yourself. And what I mean by that is like the authenticity, like the damage that does to one of escaping yourself for whatever reason, whether it's for success or work, or whether it's trying to escape some trauma or some other thing that's living deep within inside of you. But either way, the attempt to escape yourself through creating an identity or alcohol or whatever, it always seems to just be such an unsustainable,

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  It's not.

• 1:20:35Steven Bartlett?

  painful process that causes more harm and even more reason to escape yourself, paradoxically.

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:20:43Steven Bartlett?

  And that's really transparent in your story because of, for many reasons, obviously, but also because of your, you know, that's the job. The job is to be, you know,

• 1:20:55Speaker 00

  Someone else.

• 1:20:55Steven Bartlett?

  A character. Yeah, yeah, quite literally.

• 1:20:57Speaker 00

  But, you know, also no wonder I got into my line of work because, oh, I don't have to figure out who I am. I can do all these things and be all these people people want me to be. That's why I got away with it so long. And then I was like, oh, the jig is up. We got to discover who I am. It's gonna be hard and scary. But, yeah.

• 1:21:16Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest. Do you speak to yourself the way you speak to those that you love?

• 1:21:29Speaker 00

  That's a really beautiful question. I'd say about half of the time now I do. I really feel like I show up for my friends and I'm a words of affirmation gal. Like, I always let people know I'm grateful for them. And I'm just like a lover, you know, like I want people in my life to know I love them. And I, but I can also have like a venomous tongue sometimes. Like, I'm not

• 1:21:57Steven Bartlett?

  To yourself.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  To others. It's like I can emotionally respond to people in an unkind way, but I always hold myself accountable. So to answer that question, I can be very kind and at times unkind to the people I love the most. And it's similar to myself. The cruel, inner critic, self critic.

• 1:22:22Speaker 00

  I only do it to myself and you know, I'm still finding ways to quiet that voice, but I have made it a habit to say nice things about myself and and it feels silly sometimes and a little like not egotistical, but like saying kind affirmations to yourself feels really bizarre at the beginning because we almost think it's un-humble or does that make sense like, but I, yeah, I I take time out of my day to be, say cool things to myself, kind things to myself as well, but, um, but I'm still working on the voice that's not so nice.

• 1:23:03Steven Bartlett?

  Speaking of kind things, um, also never asked anybody this question before, but um, seems quite relevant in your story because I was just reflecting on that story you told about your mother, upending her life to come to LA with her, her teenage daughter to pursue her, her dreams. When you, when you look back on the journey you've, you've had so far, what, who, if there were like, you know, a couple of people that you, you wanted to say thank you to, even though thank you would never really be enough to explain the gratitude you have for them. Who are those individuals? You can include yourself if that's relevant at all.

• 1:23:38Speaker 00

  I mean, definitely my mom, but I tell her this all the time. Thank you. Uh, my manager, who I also tell all the time. Thank you.

• 1:23:48Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  She, my, I would not be where I am personally or professionally without her. And she's gone well beyond being a manager. She has been the most human, kind, patient, gracious, selfless woman to me, when she didn't have to be.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  It's hard for me to choose this because I'm such a, I tell people all the time because that's how I receive love is like, I want to hear it. So I always make it a point to tell people. I've, I've been so lucky along the way of having people that have been very good to me, but, um, there's one woman in particular who is still a friend, but her name's Joanna Garcia. She's an actress and she was number one on the call sheet, lead of the show Privileged I did on the CW. And I remember.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  How she so for people that don't know, number one on the call sheet is kind of it kind of goes in from biggest role like lead to there are no small parts, but you know what I'm saying? She was the lead of the show and she treated everyone with such kindness and grace and and I remember and she was so good to me. And I was like, I want to be like that. That's the kind of number one on a show I want to be not even more than that. That's the kind of person I want to be. She knew everyone's name. And and she had such an impact on me. And I don't know if I've ever actually told her that that she is still someone I think about.

• 1:25:25Speaker 00

  It's almost like, what would Joanna do? I could still I could wear the what would Jesus do bracelet? What would Joanna do? And it's people like that. I've been really fortunate with the people I've worked with in my life that have inspired me. So thanks, Joanna.

• 1:25:41Steven Bartlett?

  Looping back to the start of this conversation, it was really startling to me that you hadn't had many conversations like this before. It like really baffled me. It's actually the thing I was saying before you arrived because I go on YouTube, I go on whatever.

• 1:25:52Speaker 00

  So superficial. I'm so tired of talking about my beauty routine. I could just die. I can't do it anymore.

• 1:25:59Steven Bartlett?

  But it was it was so like I was literally over there watching a video where it was like, when's the first time you had a cup of coffee? Do you remember the one?

• 1:26:06Speaker 00

  I mean, it's so I just yeah, I mean, no, I don't. They all kind of blend.

• 1:26:12Steven Bartlett?

  I mean, it was like a BuzzFeed thing where they're asking you these questions. I just found it so surprising that you'd never really never really got to know who who Lucy was.

• 1:26:24Speaker 00

  And I think and I'm grateful no one's asked a lot of these questions before because I don't think I was ready. I don't think I knew how to answer them. So I I feel similarly like I feel like there's so much more to me that than people might realize or that I have to talk about.

• 1:26:45Speaker 00

  But I do believe in the timing of life and I just, maybe I wasn't quite ready to answer those big questions.

• 1:26:52Steven Bartlett?

  Lucy, thank you so much.

• 1:26:53Speaker 00

  Oh my God, you're amazing. Thank you so much for this.

• 1:26:55Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you.