The Trauma That Hurts People Most (And Never Gets Named) | Patrick Teahan

Patrick Teahan, clinical social worker and childhood trauma educator known for his YouTube channel and PatrickTeahan.com, joins Lewis Howes to break down inner child work, re-parenting, and a three-part healing framework: finishing business with family of origin, re-parenting the inner child, and intimacy work. The conversation covers the ACE study, hypervigilance, imposter syndrome, no contact boundaries, and Teahan psychology-journal-published assessment, the Toxic Family Test.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere I go, airports, events, walking down the street, people stop me and say, Louis, this show got me through one of the hardest seasons of my life. And it's one of the coolest things when people come up to me. So if you see me, please come up and say hi and let me know how this show, The School of Greatness, has impacted you. It lights me up because our mission at Greatness Media is to impact 100 million lives every single week. So if today's conversation hits home for you, do me a favor and push the follow button right now. It means that the next conversation will be delivered to you and will find you exactly when you need it. Again, thank you so much for being here and listening to The School of Greatness. Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest.

• 0:47Lewis Howes?

  How does someone learn to build a relationship with the younger version of them who was neglected? So they feel safe moving forward?

• 0:56Speaker 01

  When we think about childhood, they need such cuddling and connection or something like that. But for a lot of childhood trauma survivors, that got really wrecked. It's a problem in a way because what is what they will stay in if they can't connect with tenderness, they will be stuck in bitterness.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  He's a clinical social worker and one of the most trusted childhood trauma educators in the world. Please welcome Patrick Teahan.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  A lot of childhood trauma is around abuse of perception.

• 1:24Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Either like, we're fine, we're a great family, nothing is wrong. Being like, I'm a bad kid, or that can happen directly, sort of saying, kid, you're a bad kid. Or the child could be neglected and come up with that on their own.

• 1:37Lewis Howes?

  What's the type of trauma that usually hurts people the most?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  I would say that...

• 1:46Lewis Howes?

  So when someone has childhood trauma, what is it actually doing to them inside of them when they have it? And why can't they see it and maybe don't have words for what's happening?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  First part of the question was, what is it doing to them?

• 2:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes, when someone's experiencing childhood trauma, what is that doing to them inside of their body?

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Just off the top of my head, I mean, there's so many ways that we can kind of talk about it. But really, in a simple way, what it's doing to them is disconnecting them from the world and disconnecting them from themselves. And shame is usually going to be the culprit of that. We can look at shame as like, if it was a buffet, like you walk into a Golden Corral and there's one protein, like that's the shame. And then all the other emotions are going to be related to that protein. All the other side dishes, curiosity, anger, joy are complicated by that shame. So they're disconnected from the world. You know, they don't feel like they have a seat at the table in life.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  They do a lot of hiding, doing a lot of like, what we can take from the neurodivergent community is a bit of like masking, pretending and not feeling authentic. So they're disconnected from the world and then disconnected from themselves from a place of not, to that last point, not knowing what their emotions are, as well as struggling with the sense of self. Like sort of what we talked a little bit about earlier is sort of like, having one identity is I'm really good at cooking and that's all I am. I'm really good at music, that's all I am. And that's not really an identity, that's a performance. So...

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  It's like a skill you've developed, right?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  It's a strategy.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yes, a strategy, a skill. And people really get messed up when that's been taken away. Like if you get fired from a job or if you get, if you have a breakup and then that identity is breaking down. But what a healthy identity would be just sort of like, you know that you're a certain type of person and you have your goodness that you don't lose, no matter what happens to you. So disconnected from the world and then a big disconnect...

• 3:57Lewis Howes?

  From self.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  From self and emotions.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  If someone had developed a strategy or a skill and they tie their identity to that strategy or skill instead of tying their identity to the goodness of themselves.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:12Lewis Howes?

  What happens in their life?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  What happens in their life is they become almost like secretive, even if they're not, you know, like they're pretending to assimilate in life. But their world might become small. Like in my case, I started playing drums when I was 11. Weirdly, not because I was interested in drums. I mean, I liked like Phil Collins and the ladies and stuff like that. But I wanted something to separate me from the other kids. I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't good at school, I didn't feel lovable at home. And I wanted something to make me very visible. And it worked, it really worked.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  It's a great strategy.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  You know, really good strategy. But I also fell in love with playing drums and it gave me a sense of like, oh my God, I can do this, you know? And it really, but you know, that was at 11. By the time I was 19, it stopped working. I'd be like, because our world becomes very small when we rely on a performative like identity kind of a thing.

• 5:14Lewis Howes?

  Why does it stop working at 19? Because you probably in eight years mastered it to a certain level to get certain results and you probably got pretty good at it. And you got people to pay attention and people cheering for you at the, you know, school band or whatever it is.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, clubs and yeah.

• 5:30Lewis Howes?

  You're getting success.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  I got, right. And I, but I was also like, at 16, guys in their mid twenties hired me to play drums. So it was really like a boom, you know, and they really got me out of all that deep pain. But why it kind of stops working is it's a little bit of like that song, is that all there is? Do you know what I mean? Where the drums, playing the drums didn't help me with my relationships. It only lasted six weeks because I was a mess. Do you know what I mean? Playing drums didn't help me feel good about myself in the way that I needed to. Playing drums didn't connect me or afford me the authenticity and the intimacy I wanted from other people. So it's just, you know what I mean?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Like, and it was in a sad way, like I could go and play drums in clubs around Boston and feel amazing and have great nights. But I would still go home and with, there'd be myself at home.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  You were disconnected from yourself.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  And disconnected, but also feeling less than than the rest of the world. So then it becomes a little bit like addictive and it'd be, you just with these feelings, like I don't really feel like I belong anywhere. But I can always rely on my drums, but I don't really feel like I belong anywhere, you know? So...

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  You mentioned something about that neurodivergent community, I guess.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Like masking.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, individuals who are considered neurodivergent. Are those individuals who are considered neurodivergent, is that developed through trauma in their life? Or is that more of a born personality traits that they have?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  That, I believe, I'm not an expert on it, but I believe it's just an organic thing that they are sort of born with.

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And it's in, what is kind of fascinating about it is what I was talking about there is childhood trauma survivors kind of have to assimilate to what they assume the normative world is. And someone who was neurodivergent, they have, they've probably, like childhood trauma survivors, they felt like they were born different and they have to mask into a neurotypical world, which in a way is traumatic in and of itself. Do you know what I mean? Because it's just sort of like, if you have to, and we can relate to them in a way with childhood trauma. Like I felt like a weirdo kid, I felt disconnected from everybody. But I found ways to sit at the lunch table and be liked by other kids. And folks who are neurodivergent, they have to kind of mask in a way

• 7:55Speaker 01

  and pretend to be neurotypical or show up to the neurotypical world, which is just kind of shit. And they wake up to it and they're just like, I just want to be me, you know what I mean? So there's, there's like a Venn diagram of overlap there that we can learn from each other. And to complicate it more, to be neurodivergent is to have your own series of trauma in and of itself. Because like, when you think back to, what year did you graduate high school?

• 8:23Lewis Howes?

  2001.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  2001. And growing up in the nineties, how sensitive was the school system around kids who were odd? Or different?

• 8:32Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't sensitive.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  No, it was traumatic, you know what I mean? So like we all...

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  I was put in special needs classes.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:38Lewis Howes?

  It was like, that was traumatic.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, just even the name of it in and of itself is just sort of like, it's just awful. It's what I call double whammy trauma. And double whammy trauma is a lot like if you're a son of, or a child of immigrants and you have to be the translator and you're different than the society that you're growing or you're neurodivergent, the double whammy is you have to sort of mask and pretend and sort of meet the neurotypical world. And the neurotypical world is kind of saying, this is the way to be. And if you're not this, I don't know what to tell you.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, in our society, our culture that you're in right now, this is the way you're supposed to show up.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yep, yeah, right. And just think, even in the eighties, like sort of when, when children would be in special needs school or something like that, it's just like, it was something really horrific, like taken away into a different class.

• 9:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's what it was.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Like separated and you were...

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  I was separated in a different classroom and during like recess. I'd go in during lunch, during recess, I was like in a separate classroom with me and essentially the other kids who were like in wheelchairs. And it was like me and that. And so kind of like the other classmates would walk through. I, you know, the memory, we were talking about like traumatic events that we remember and how both of us remember so much traumatic events over the good events in our life.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:56Lewis Howes?

  Even though I know there were good events and I can really focus on them and think about them, reflect on them, but there were so many more traumatic events.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  And even just... Maybe it's not even that big of a deal, but at the time it felt like a big deal, right? I experienced it as a big deal when kids would walk by and laugh of me in the special.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Well, that is a big deal, right?

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, at that time, maybe if I'm an adult and that happened now, I'd be like, okay, whatever. I know who I am, but at that point.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  True.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  You know, at that point with that nine year old brain.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:27Lewis Howes?

  I didn't understand.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  But a nine year old brain also without power.

• 10:32Lewis Howes?

  Zero power.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  You know, so as an adult, we can, we have the power to have a debit card and our own thoughts about ourselves and whatever. But depending on like what the school says or our parents says, or whatever, we have no power to to sort of, you know, it it's just kind of like this, this horrific, like you get what you get and you don't get upset kind of a thing, you know? But back to that world and I, I think what warm, what I really love, I get joy from is sort of my son who's 15. The, the schooling has changed over time that, that they've slowly, I mean, it's, it's a work in progress. But we've woken up to sort of this idea of just like, why are we separating kids when they should all be together?

• 11:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  And even there's even a culture of better parenting that people are waking up. There's like parents watching my channel, they're watching your channel, like in the, in the nineties, we had a couple of books.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I was it.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  And they were like secret on the down low. There's like Judith Herman and then there's like John Bradshaw.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Well, no one talked about therapy also in the nineties or eighties and nineties. Therapy was like so taboo, you know, it's like.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  You were messed up if you have a therapist.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  What was interesting about that is I love that you brought that up. Um, it was taboo in crappy families, but people in nineties were pretty into therapy.

• 11:48Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Like when I was, I moved, I left the suburbs to go live in, in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And I was kind of not, I was not launched from home. I kind of escaped home or like catapulted out of home. And I go from like really blue collar abusive suburban kind of place to I'm now in a city right side of like outside of Harvard University. Everybody's doing breath workshops. People are going to a place called Bread and Circus, which was, which became Whole Foods. And they would buy organic stuff in bulk, you know what I mean? And like they would just, people were living, they would go to this, they would go to retreats and learn Reiki. I learned Reiki in the nineties, but when you're growing up in it separated from that,

• 12:34Speaker 01

  there was a good therapy kind of culture going on. You can, you can see it in like the, uh, in the old Oprah shows of there'd be John Bradshaw and he would be doing these, this amazing work, educating people about childhood trauma. So, but I relate to what you just kind of said. I wouldn't have known anything about it. Do you know what I mean? Because it's just sort of like everybody around me, there's just like, what? Do you know what I mean? Breath workshops and.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, just suck it up.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:02Lewis Howes?

  Suck it up and.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:04Lewis Howes?

  Well, you know, most people, they think about trauma or they picture trauma as some big event that happened to them, right?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Singular, right?

• 13:12Lewis Howes?

  But the quiet everyday stuff often does the most damage for a lot of people.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  What's the kind that wrecks people the most and they never even name it? What's the type of trauma that usually hurts people the most?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, that's a tricky one to name. But I would say that

• 13:36Speaker 01

  the, the most is sort of, the most is about for the individual. And the first video I did on my channel was about critiquing the A study. And we've all heard about the A study, the A study is, it's a good sort of study to measure the effects of health over time for people who grew up in childhood trauma.

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  What's the A study?

• 13:55Speaker 01

  It's a very simple sort of test. That's kind of like, um, I'm going to draw a blank on the questions, but one question always sticks out to me was like, did you grow up with a parent who was incarcerated? Did you spend three days out of the week hungry? It was just kind of like the, what I, with my critique of the test is sort of to say like, well, that's extreme trauma. But there's this wide spectrum of trauma. And what I learned from my mentor, Amanda Curtin, was there's kind of blatant trauma, which is the trauma that I grew up with, like growing up in bars and domestic violence. And there was a death of a sibling. There was just this loud stuff.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Big stuff.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Big stuff.

• 14:31Lewis Howes?

  Big T.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  But then there's sort of what happens though, from what we, what I've learned from my mentor, if you come from a tricky family, where there's no really emotional attachment and everything is performative, maybe even affluent or whatever. Or there's just, you know, there's not a parent that's like in your face alcoholic or drug addicted or violent. But they're massively a little bit covert narcissistic or depressed or something like that. And here's the kicker is I had an easier time in psychotherapy because my trauma was blatant.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  You can name it.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  I tried to avoid it or I tried to minimize it with a therapist. But you know what I mean? Like I remember my first session, which I'm writing about in a book with my therapist. You know, I'm, I'm talking about how my mother would drive around drunk driving with kids in the car. And she was like, that's not okay. And that was the first time I kind of heard it, but I, then I quickly would sort of say like, oh, you don't understand my mom. She had a hard life. Do you know what I mean?

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Justifying.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  So I would be still justifying it, but for the person that comes from that tricky family, they kind of have a very tricky mindset going on because they would be sitting in a group comparing themselves to me. So the person who comes from a trickier family, um, is going to have a harder time maybe looking at this stuff because it wasn't loud. But the other kicker is in my group work, when I was practicing, when I would have somebody sitting down, they had a tricky family, sitting down to somebody who had a, um, a very blatantly abusive family. The symptoms are exactly the same. There's anxiety, there's depression and neither party knows how to do intimacy.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  So in some ways it doesn't matter so much about, I mean, there's definitely healthy parenting and good enough parenting. And every family has a bit of stuff, so that's perfectly fine and good. But in a way that the trauma symptoms are the same despite the severity.

• 16:26Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Which is kind of mind blowing. Do you know what I mean?

• 16:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  So.

• 16:30Lewis Howes?

  When someone lacks the ability as an adult to be intimate or to truly open up or to go deep, what is that typically saying about their childhood?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Um, as I would be curious about.

• 16:45Lewis Howes?

  Like if everything's on the surface or if it's all like superficial talk or it's all fluffy. But then you're never able to actually answer a question about something or you don't remember painful moments, or you're not able to actually express those deeper painful moments or just real moments, just being authentic.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  What is that saying? Yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Um, well, I couldn't when I started therapy, I would again minimize or, or I would really believe what my mom's story about what happened was, do you know what I mean? So it was a little bit like brainwashed. So there's this other piece about it, but when someone, if I would have a client that was sort of surfacy, um, I would know that that's a strategy. And I would also know that they might be a bit dissociative from what happened to them or their emotions.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  But in a way like it's, it's very, very common. Usually they do, would be showing up to come see me knowing a little bit in that way. But I don't know if I'm answering your question. What was the?

• 17:43Lewis Howes?

  I guess what is, what is underneath that? Like what is, what is it saying about someone's childhood or someone's life? If they lack the ability, if they lack the ability to be real with you, unless maybe after months and you finally crack them open, it takes, it's so much work to get someone to actually say something real.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Two ways we can look at this, we can look at it as modeling in the home. What were their parents like with emotions? What was the emotional culture in the home? Do you know what I mean? Like in a way, like you would make sense if that same person grew up in a home with like screaming, door slamming. And then two seconds later was like, who wants brownies? Because the parent isn't being real about it. And to take it on a, on a tangent, sorry, you're picking up full of tangents. Um, a lot of childhood trauma is around abuse of perception.

• 18:31Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  It means that like, um, either like we're fine, we're a great family, nothing is wrong. Or that can look like, um,

• 18:42Speaker 01

  You know, abusive perception, meaning like I'm a bad kid. Or that can happen either sort of directly sort of saying to a kid, you're a bad kid, or the child could be neglected and come up with that on their own. So when someone is sort of struggling with authenticity and not being able to kind of do that, I would be curious about who taught them to be on the surface. So that's one thing over here. Or they figured out a good way, like from like what we said earlier, to assimilate into safe zones. What how's the weather? I'm fine. It wasn't that bad. Like when I showed up to therapy, I was operating in a safe zone. Cause I didn't want to dip down into anything. And shame will do that in a way that we will try to contain it as much as possible.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  And anytime we're trying to contain who we feel like we are or what really happened to us. Like we're in an inauthentic place. But in the group work that I do in RRP is there's a warm up to that, that they're in a, that when I was practicing is sort of, it would be eight people in a room. We would start off going over handouts about childhood trauma and getting people to sort of share. So there was a thawing around that authenticity. And the best part is when someone really struggled with it, it would become a group issue.

• 19:59Lewis Howes?

  How so?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  In a way, like there's an exercise in that work of doing a genogram where you put together your family tree of dysfunction and you show up and you literally put it up on the wall. And you present, this is my family.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  From a place of truth telling.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow, of course.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  And you get feedback from your group members, you get feedback from the therapist. I'll never forget, I've done, I've done three genograms in my life in different groups. Each one equally as powerful.

• 20:24Lewis Howes?

  Of your own family dynamics.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  My nuclear family system of origin, three generations, grandparents, nuclear family. Here's the alcoholism, here's the immigrant immigrant stuff, here's the sexual abuse. Here's the weird dynamics, here's my siblings. You're just laying it out.

• 20:41Lewis Howes?

  And you're sharing it with, with seven strain, well.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  But you know them.

• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you know, you've built.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  You've known them for six months at this point.

• 20:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  But what I'm getting at is sort of, that is an exercise of a slow, slowly getting people to become more authentic, to be able to share. It's really intimacy work in a way, but you feel like you're gonna throw up on your shoes when you present in that way.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And do you ever see people trying to like diminish what certain?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  That's what the work is about.

• 21:08Lewis Howes?

  It's like, ah, my mom, she had a hard life, so you know, it's trying to defend.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  That's what I did when I presented the first time.

• 21:14Lewis Howes?

  They sexually abused me, but it was not their fault, you know?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  That's how it works. Where I'm, I'm up there and I'm again, more talking about my, my mother's emotions about what my dad did to her than what was like for me as a child. And somebody in the group gently called me out on it. When I, when I presented that and the person was sort of like, I'm so proud of you for doing that, but I feel like you're protecting your mom still.

• 21:39Lewis Howes?

  Right. Oh, man.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's, you know, in a way, like what I love about group work is when someone is on the surface, there's two things, they've been conditioned to be on the surface, but they don't know how to be real. And that three and a half year group work is a whole exercise. It has three goals. It has finishing business with our family of origin. It is reparenting the inner child. And it's intimacy work, but intimacy work is an internal and an external kind of a thing. And it, towards the end of this stuff, it gets kind of heavy in a way of real conflict stuff, you know?

• 22:21Lewis Howes?

  So how do we resolve the dynamics or the relationship with the work with our parents?

• 22:29Lewis Howes?

  How do we get to that place? Let's say someone isn't able to do three years of group therapy.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yes, right, that's.

• 22:36Lewis Howes?

  And, and, and do you ever, and do you ever get finished with your parents? Like in the work that needs to be done to heal the relationship with your parents?

• 22:46Speaker 01

  I think you can in a good enough way.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  And my, my experience, my path was about being in that group. But for people who don't have access to that, or it's a tall order, you know what I mean? It's, it's funny, when I was 20, I was in such a hole when my therapist was like, would you like, I have one spot in a group, would you like to join it? It's three and a half years. I was looking around going like, I got nothing going on.

• 23:10Lewis Howes?

  Oh, right.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  You don't even know.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  You were free at that time.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, you know what I mean?

• 23:13Lewis Howes?

  You had all the time in the world.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  You know, like I was just waiting tables and playing the band, you know what I mean? Like, and really lost in a lot of pain. But it's so funny that you bring, that you mentioned that I, and I developed a six month model of that group to give people an introduction because it's tall order.

• 23:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Get in there, three and a half years, 20, like 2029, you know?

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  So it's a lot, but it was the best thing I ever did in my life, you know? It takes about a good 20 years for us to get really trauma conditioned in an unhealthy family. So when you look at it that way, three and a half years isn't really a long time.

• 23:47Lewis Howes?

  But how do we heal that relationship with our parents? What, what does it take for us? Instead of saying, all right, I'm gonna do. I guess the question is, what needs to happen within us to feel like we've healed the relationship with our parents enough that it doesn't hold us back from being authentic selves anymore?

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Great question. Like, are you referencing the actual ongoing relationship with our parents? Or do you mean like the internalized?

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  The internalized.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  Experience that we need to have, heal or feel in order to feel like, okay, I can navigate my past relationship with my parents and my present relationship with my parents now.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:29Lewis Howes?

  No matter what happened.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  If we can do enough work on ourselves where

• 24:36Speaker 01

  the deep part of us, what I would call our inner child or our subconscious, when that part of us knows that I was a good kid and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, not from an intellectual awareness place. Cause anybody can tell themselves that. But when you know in your internal core and you have a good sense of self enough of like, my mom and dad were wrong about me. You know, I don't, I don't wish them ill, they were just not really well people. They did a number on me. But I think also too, like with over time, getting to that place and in your deepest core self, not, again, it's really people get tripped up, they could say, well, I'm already there. Do you know what I mean? And I'm like, how's your love life?

• 25:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Like the proof is in the pudding about sort of like where if, when you feel like you're, you're done in a good enough way, is if you can live your life in a totally different way, and that's going to also involve the internal stuff.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  Right. Yeah, do you have intimacy now as an adult?

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  And do you have, do you have general harmony in your relationship? It doesn't mean it's gonna be perfect, but do you feel peaceful enough to have intimacy?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you have friends?

• 25:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Do you have a good feeling about humanity instead of being so like, ugh, you know what I mean? Like there's, I'm not sort of saying it all has to be that. But there's, I'm kind of fascinated by this, about this like final frontier of like, what does the end result of a lot of work look like? And I still, I still get triggered in my life, but I know it's not real.

• 26:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  And I can, it'll last an hour at most, not like seven days, the way it used to, you know? So it's like that kind of stuff. But when that internal part of you knows that you were a good kid and you have goodness and you have a seat at the table in the world, that's what the end result might look like. And group, groups are not like whatever, whatever gets you there, like whatever gets you through the night is kind of that. But I see a lot of people, because they don't really know, and I'm not criticizing them. I see a lot of people out there convincing themselves that they've hit that point. And then they, it's like Lucy with the football, life keeps kind of beating them up a little bit, you know? So.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  You said there's kind of three parts to this healing process. The first one was, you know, doing the work with your parents and kind of like.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Finishing business.

• 26:56Lewis Howes?

  Finishing business with your parents. Whether they're alive or not alive, or you speak to them or not.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  In the therapy room.

• 27:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Not, well, not with them.

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  With yourself.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:04Lewis Howes?

  The second part is reparenting the inner child.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:08Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone learn to build a relationship with the younger version of them who was neglected, abused, abandoned, or had a number of emotions around feeling not good enough, shameful, guilty, and like they didn't belong?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  How does someone as an adult? Connect or reconnect with that version of themselves emotionally so they feel safe moving forward?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yes. In a, that's something I will not take on a tangent. In a concrete way, pictures of your younger self. There's a tool that I teach called dialoguing, which is your, your, you're having a, you're journaling on paper between your dominant hand and your non-dominant hand.

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, jeez.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  You're speaking with your subconscious.

• 27:58Lewis Howes?

  And also your handwriting is like a child on your other hand.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Right, which is another fascinating, very fascinating thing.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Blew my mind, a lot of clients have this experience. They will write from their inner adult, their dominant hand in block lettering. And their inner child writes in cursive.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  And there might be wounding around that cursive kind of a thing. I, I had a client from India, this broke my heart, where they were not, they were, they were being schooled in a Catholic school where they were not allowed to use their left hand. Everybody had to be right-handed. So that's like another thing over here about it. But pictures of yourself, a stuffed animal.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  The dialoguing, also what is very RRP, the, the, the therapy that I do, the relationship recovery process is very tactile. Watching the shows that you watched when you were a kid. You know, like maybe evening, some, even the, some of the foods. So there's a bunch of things that's a lot like jump starting this, but everybody shows up to that work differently. Some people, you know, depending on their trauma, they'd be like, I do not want to parent my inner child, that's somebody else's job. Some people have an immediate connection and the inner child is just like, where you been my whole life? It's amazing, you know? And there's like a easy way that they, they don't struggle as much with it. Other people who might struggle with being dissociative, might struggle feeling like,

• 29:23Speaker 01

  how do I get a toehold in there and get that jump started relationship going? And then to complicate it further, their inner child might be angry. I don't like adults, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to be parented.

• 29:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  So a lot of that is the nature of that work.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  If someone is not willing to have a relationship with the younger version of themselves, the inner child.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:46Lewis Howes?

  What is not available for them the rest of their life? If they always

• 29:50Speaker 01

  That's a great question.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  If they always block it out?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  They don't have a relationship with them younger self? Or they're just angry?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  About their childhood?

• 30:01Speaker 01

  They will get stuck around tenderness.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  That they will not experience tenderness. In a way that they might need compassion for themselves, compassion for their inner child. A tenderness towards their partner. A tenderness for other children. Just general, like when we think about childhood, like you're a new dad yourself. It's sort of like they need such cuddling and connection or something like that. But for a lot of childhood trauma survivors, that got really wrecked. And they're grossed out by it. Like, I don't want nothing to do with it. And that's a stuck place that we, I may have to really press and lean into a client. To get them to hit a grief spot about it. Do you know what I mean? To the point where I've had to say to somebody like, you know, this is your inner child, a picture of them. Do you know what I mean? Would you tell them that they're worthless or they're not worth your time? You know?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  So it's a really, it's a problem. In a way, because what is, what they will stay in, if they can't connect with tenderness. They will be stuck in bitterness. They will be stuck in brokenheartedness. Do you know what I mean? So like when they're, you'll see it, you know? Have you ever known somebody in your life when their partner gives them a kiss on the, on the cheek? Or there's a wedding or something like that? They make a joke about it? Do you know what I mean? Or they sneak out of it a little bit?

• 31:17Lewis Howes?

  They don't embrace it.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  They don't lean into it. They don't, they may have to, you know, some people, it's almost like I think about like Seinfeld characters. You know what I mean? I'm not saying these people are bad. We're just kind of saying like, there is

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  Disconnected.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  It's just telling me that in their childhood, the family might've been super sarcastic.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Toxic and acidic about connection. So it's one of the hardest things too. Next to when the inner child, when the inner, when the person's inner adult wants to connect with the inner child. And the inner child is just like, I don't know.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  And that's another barrier, you know? But, but when people don't do this. And one other place that I talk about this is inner child work is just a language vehicle.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  For people who are like, inner child work?

• 32:06Speaker 01

  You know, like, I just don't, it sounds so foofy or whatever, or it sounds so precious, you know? Which I get, then I would just flip it semantically to say like, okay, then. Or even when someone says, I don't have an inner child. My inner child died a long time ago. I don't, you know, like, I don't operate on that kind of wavelength or whatever. I say, do you have an amygdala? Do you have a limbic system? You do. You have an inner child. It's just, it's just your emotional memory system. And you also have, and other people will sort of say like, I can't find my inner adult. I can barely function. I will never find my inner adults. And I'm like, you have a prefrontal cortex that works all the time. You know what I mean? Like you get triggered for three days. And then you rally and get out of it. That's when your prefrontal cortex comes off online.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Prefrontal cortex is just your inner adult. It's more functioning part of you. And that's the part of you that's going to start to have a conversation. With your limbic system, specifically your amygdala. Which is like the file cabinet of all the bad stuff.

• 33:05Lewis Howes?

  If an adult has an emotional reaction to something that triggers them. Whether it be in an intimate relationship, a friendship, a parent, a coworker. People around the world, normal life, whatever, something they see online. If something emotionally triggers them often. What does that say about them? If they're emotionally triggered consistently?

• 33:28Speaker 01

  That they probably need to do some childhood trauma work.

• 33:31Lewis Howes?

  Is it all tied to, like, I think I heard Gabor Maté say, if it's hysterical, it's historical? And if someone is

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 33:39Lewis Howes?

  Having a hysterical reaction or some type of emotional charge around it?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  Then there's some type of history tied to that feeling that's causing the trigger. I'm not saying we go around and we're just numb to life and we have no emotion to anything. But if something is constantly triggering you so much

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  To focus on it.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  You're saying that there's some type of history or trauma that needs to be healed?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yes, and I love what you just, the, the, the Gabor Maté quote, it's beautiful. Also Carl Jung said, neurosis is just evidence of suffering. You know, so when we think about someone who's neurotic, like sort of like, you know, like, like, you know, we all have our stuff. But, you know, I had a friend years ago, he was like, no sharp knives in the sink. You know what I mean? Cause they have this fear of whatever. And that's like more of a first naked kind of trigger. But like, I used to get so triggered, I was sort of a, a rager, a fight response, took everything personally. I was so in bad shape that I would take it personally that people were not walking fast enough in front of me on the sidewalk.

• 34:40Lewis Howes?

  Dude, I know that feeling.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  You're just sort of like, what, you know, I'm impatient, you know what I mean? Like, there's just a thing there, but like, in my, it might be part of just my personality I was born with. But it's definitely about people being thoughtless and oblivious. Which is the household that I grew up in. So when people are thoughtless and oblivious around me, historically, not anymore. Now it's kind of lovely where I'm, if someone doesn't hold the door open for me in a simple way or whatever. I'm like, oh, maybe they have a lot of stuff going on. But it used to be like

• 35:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Disrespect me.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Believe you. Or just even being like so nauseated by humanity, which is sort of like another kind of thing. But when someone is, is triggered in a place is, first of all, do they know that they're triggered? Because a lot of people who like, I don't, triggering, whatever, I'm just, I just don't like it when people don't hold the door open for me. You know what I mean? So it's kind of, it's the hardest thing in my work is telling somebody that they're triggered. Or asking them or trying to, or get them to be warmed up to this idea about, I don't, I, I typically work with people or when I was working. That they would, I would, I started screening, like, I needed them to know that something was up in childhood. Because I would hit dead ends with people. If they, I just want to be better with my boss and if they didn't really know that.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  But when someone is triggered. I think more times out of the week than not. Then they might have stuff to really kind of look at. And I'm not saying people are very protective about their emotions. Like they're in a bad marriage, their boss sucks, the traffic around LA, you know, like all of it. You know, when you kind of maybe ask them, first of all, never sort of say, are you triggered? Cause that's

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  That's triggering.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Yes. There's a morality, like you're sort of, when we ask somebody if they're triggered, it's almost like we're asking, are you out of control right now? You know what I mean? Or, you know? So it, it really depends on their awareness of it, their buy-in to it. Their defensiveness around it and their shame. But like if you're, the world is crazy, the world is really triggering. But I often think with childhood trauma, this might be the best way to talk about it is like a spinal tap thing. Like our amps go to 11. Where to be a human, it's annoying. If you're having a bad day, like you've got like a six month old and a carrot and someone doesn't open up the door for you and you're on two hours of sleep. You're going to have feelings about it.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  But for childhood trauma, if you were raised by someone who was very narcissistic or thoughtless, oblivious, very selfish, or very just really out of touch or whatever, there's that added, you know, energy to it, that's that added charge to it. And what was wild about doing group work is I had this realization when I started doing it. It's kind of like I would talk to my, my therapist Amanda, like, I think I'm triggered like 24/7. And she's just like, that's pretty common for us.

• 37:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  You know, we're not out of our minds, like we still function on a level, but like

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  Anything you see that bothers you, it bothers you. And you

• 37:37Speaker 01

  And I was bothered, yeah.

• 37:39Lewis Howes?

  And you hold on to it and you talk about it and you ruminate about it and you're like, how could they do this?

• 37:43Speaker 01

  I also come from a family of complainers. So another strategy was to like, you know, if I was triggered, and I'm still growing out of this, is to like to bitch about stuff. Do you know what I mean? And it's just like, it's not a great way to connect with people or complain in that way. But that's like what my family was like, so.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Around money, mindset, healing, manifestation and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops. Because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now let's get back to the conversation. If someone has experienced emotional, verbal or sexual abuse in childhood. How does that shape the inner voice that someone carries with them for the rest of their life?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  It's gonna affect them in a way of inner voice about

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Am I worthy of protection?

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Like if there was sexual abuse, am I worthy of? You know what I mean? You can, you can rightfully so get really bitter and really broken hearted in that way. And the inner voice stuff is my, I learned this from my mentor is that we look at the present through the lens of our childhood. So

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  We look at the present.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  We look at the present through the lens of childhood.

• 39:11Lewis Howes?

  We look at the now, what's happening right now through the lens of what happened to us in childhood.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  So that, you know, like I, if, if I grew up in verbal abuse, emotional abuse and physical abuse is, this would happen to me a lot is like when I would try to be positive or trying to make a connection with somebody and it just wasn't gelling. I would either make that personally or evidence that I was a POS. So that's looking at the lens. And in a way, what's not there is just like, maybe there wasn't chemistry with that person. Maybe that person had something going on. It was about me. So that inner voice becomes, the inner voice is a lot of like confirming the old stuff in the present.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  Gosh.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Do you know?

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  So healing the inner child is the work. That is like, because everything about the present.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  If it's, if it's, if we are experiencing the present day through the lens of all of our memories of childhood.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:06Lewis Howes?

  And if our memories of childhood were typically focused around the energy of we are bad and wrong.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  Or we were not, we were taken advantage of or didn't have things like everyone else had them. Well, we were outsiders, then that is how we look at our life today.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes. It doesn't leave us until we mend that relationship. We, we heal those memories. We reconnect with that and either grieve the things that we didn't have, find meaning in those things, heal that relationship, act now as the adult in the room like, hey, I got us now. You went through this, but you don't have to go through this moving forward. If we don't do those things, what I'm hearing you say is we're always going to be suffering at some level.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I don't want to be sort of like, that was well said, you know, always suffering on some level, not trying to attack your language, but it's just sort of like, as we get older, things mellow, which is good. And we can learn things about awareness about like, oh yeah, I'm triggered in that way. But you're right in the way that there, there is some kind of deep primal work, I think, that needs to sort of happen in that way. And that reparenting is kind of like little Patrick, it sounds goofy, but little Patrick, what did it take you back to when that person didn't open the door for you? Little Patrick, what, what does it take you back to when, when she broke up with you?

• 41:24Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  After six weeks, because that's like a pattern for us. You know what I mean? Little Patrick, what does it take you back to when you didn't get the promotion?

• 41:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Because childhood trumps of like, these are, these are things that are like life on life's terms. But when we grow up in childhood trauma, um, in my twenties and a breakup, that would put me in a hole where I feel like maybe someone who didn't grow up with childhood trauma, they'd be sad. They'd be depressed for like two weeks or whatever, then they might get back out there and whatever. We're in it for like eight, eight months.

• 41:52Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 41:54Lewis Howes?

  Years, sometimes like.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Right. You know, staying with us. And those are all warnings, not warning signs, but it's just like, there's a beautiful

• 42:03Speaker 01

  crisis that happens to us where trauma bites us in the ass. And what is, it's hard about that, but it's also gives us the answers. Do you know what I mean? Like in, in this, this book that I'm writing about this three and a half year group that I did in my early twenties is I sat down with a fellow waiter and he would just notice, he's like, you know, you're, he's a friend, you know what I mean? Are you okay? What's going on with you? And I just spilled the beans with him. Um, and those, that was a moment where everything was catching up with me. So it feels bad when trauma bites you in the ass, but it's the best moment. It's the absolute best moment.

• 42:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And I really believe like the greater the pain you have, the greater the purpose is on the other side of that. If you lean into it.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  That's beautiful.

• 42:43Lewis Howes?

  You know, you went through intense pain, you went into the healing journey and you wanted to be a therapist or learn about human psychology and understanding how to help others going through similar or worse pain than you.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Yes. So inspiring to see my therapist, this is what you do.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know?

• 43:01Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  And super inspiring. Yeah.

• 43:04Lewis Howes?

  Do people from dysfunctional childhoods unconsciously seek out partners who feel familiar, who are also dysfunctional? Even if familiar means painful or disconnected? How do we break that pattern also if people do that?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Great question. Absolutely. Yes.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  But it's a weird thing. I learned from my mentor that replicating trauma and being triggered is not a choice.

• 43:35Lewis Howes?

  It's not a choice.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Not a choice. So we might, you know, we might look at the person, you know, we've all had friends. I've been that person too. It's like, why are you dating your fourth alcoholic who lives in their car? You know what I mean? Like, why are you dating beneath you? Like, what is, what is up with, what is up with that? We gotta talk about that.

• 43:51Lewis Howes?

  It's not a conscious thing? We don't have control over that?

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Two things. It's familiar, but the reparenting stuff and the group therapy stuff is sort of, no one protected you from those situations. So it's not like we're attracting those folks. They usually just kind of happen to us in a way.

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  So interesting.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  So it's in a way, like, you know what I mean? Like it could be wrapped up, the inner child might want to rescue a parent. The inner child might want to be available to really difficult people, you know, like this is all very patternized. But what's missing behind it is the parenting around it is, you know, and I got this from my therapist, it's like, you know, what are you doing there? That's not good for you. You know, we need that in our homes when we're kids, not in a controlling way, sort of like, you know, you're 10 years old and it's like, you know what, honey? Like you, you want to be friends with Joe, but Joe invites you over and he's never home. He calls you and then he gets distracted and that's like happened seven times and you get so upset.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  Stop going.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Or like, I love you so much. I, I think I want you to love yourself so much that you have friends that show up for you. You're like, oh, you know, like, it's just sort of like we, no one grows up with that. So it's not so much that the person is a magnet, you know? Cause we can have this nasty belief, like I'm always going to be caught with people.

• 45:10Lewis Howes?

  Attracting bad people.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Or that it never works out or whatever. And that this, this, it's, it's just more about it's very familiar. And I think if we ask anybody caught in that pattern, these people just show up on your doorstep. But it's not that you're a magnet. It's that you are too available to it when it happens.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  You welcome it in.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Because no one has taught you, it's just sort of like, you know, I love you so much. I don't want you to take that on.

• 45:36Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  And that's the message that I had to learn in therapy and then take that to my inner child. Because I would do that. I would date very, I mean, it's also, I was in my twenties and anything goes in your twenties, but I was also dating women that I could take care of if they were a little bit messy. If I could like, if I could make them happy and that's definitely related to mom.

• 45:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  And they would be really out there and really messy. And that was my jam. And that's very, very common.

• 46:02Lewis Howes?

  You saw the potential of what they could be. You're like, oh, you're beautiful, you're talented, but if I can help you see it.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Right. But if there's a fantasy that woman's like, oh my God, you got me to stop drinking and get out of me, my, my roommate situation, whatever. But the, the goal for me of for someone to say, you're an amazing person. You are my savior.

• 46:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Cause no one would say that before.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  My mom, I was trying to do that with my mom, but she could never sort of say that or whatever. You know, it's just like, we all have these strategies about how to get love.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  You know? So really the, the real main lesson for the listener, if you have a pattern of people who are difficult or messy, or it never works out or whatever, it's not that you're attracting them. It's just like, no one ever told you, you could look elsewhere.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  And I, why often I'm big on this, this last piece is healthy people are intimidating.

• 46:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  And they should be.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  True.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Healthy people to date. Cause in a way, like as childhood trauma survivors, I don't know if you had this, I didn't know what to do with healthy people.

• 47:01Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Like people would be like, I'm going to go play tennis. I'm going to go to the beach this weekend or take, take care of, care of myself. And you know, like whatever, and I'm just gonna, you know, they would be doing healthy things. And I would feel, oh, that's definitely not for me. You know what I mean? Like I would just, I would be more, um, you know, it'd be, it'd be a funny thing if you were just like, I'm going tennis, I'm doing, doing this, gonna go to the beach, gonna hang out with my friends, haven't seen my friend in a while. What are you going to do this weekend, Patrick? I'm like, I'm going to rip butts in a coffee shop and drink way too much coffee and read myself help books.

• 47:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? And like people, eventually I started to warm up and be more involved with healthy people doing healthy things, but like, didn't, didn't grow up like that.

• 47:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I guess the question around that is why does a healthy relationship often feel wrong to someone who grew up in a dysfunctional home?

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:51Lewis Howes?

  Like, why does a healthy person feel scary to someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Love it. Cause from, in my case, hypervigilance hates the absence of a threat.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Like it hates safety.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Hates calmness.

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  It hates peace, peace and harmony.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  I don't like it.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't like it. I mean, like it's sort of.

• 48:12Lewis Howes?

  I felt that way most.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, like where I don't, it was, you know, eventually that group was so good for me because it started to really kind of train me to be like, hey, you don't have to be reactive to people's moods so much. Do you know what I mean? But hyper vigilant is such a big part of us. You know, like I would, if any, anybody listening in the audience want to make a comment is how much do you watch your partner's emotions? How much do you watch the emotions of others? How much do you focus on that? You know what I mean? And that's telling us, but in a way we can, we can, in a healthy relationship, we can feel bored. We can build stories in our head that things are going too good. Are you cheating on me? Like all that stuff is, is really, I think

• 48:57Speaker 01

  the inner child who is hyper vigilant. Their job is to look for a threat.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Funny because my wife, she's always like, we've been together for, I don't know, five years now.

• 49:09Lewis Howes?

  Married last year, but been together five years. And she's always like, God, I wish I would have met you like 10 years ago. Like I wish I would have met you. Because we would have had so much fun together and, you know, and I said, I always tell her like, I wouldn't have been ready for you.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  You would have been too peaceful for me. You admit like I want, I wanted peace in my mind. But I never, I never went for peace.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  I wanted to make something that was chaotic more peaceful. But I never went for peace, if that makes sense.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Like peace felt boring to me. It felt like, eh, I'm not really into this. And I didn't know how to communicate it. I just thought like, something's wrong with this person. I didn't understand it.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:50Lewis Howes?

  I didn't understand.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  What do you mean? You're fine.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what do you mean? You're, you're always happy. Yeah, yeah.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  And I always tell that I'm like, I wouldn't have been ready for you. I would have seen you 10 years ago before we met. I would have thought maybe you're like, yeah, you're pretty, but I wouldn't have been attracted to you.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:07Lewis Howes?

  If it's attracted.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  That's fascinating, right?

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  A different energy.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  And now I'm, I'm attracted to her because peace is the thing I crave the most. It's what I want as my baseline.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Right. This stuff is so powerful. I love what you just sort of said. I wasn't attracted to healthy women.

• 50:24Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  And the attraction I think was coming from, that's for other people over there. You know what I mean? Like in a way, but I was, I was attracted if things could get kind of messy. If, uh, if you could be mad at me and I could convince you, that was like a familiar place as well. But it's a fascinating thing. Like in a way, I, um, I've said to many in these conversations with clients who are talking about their dating was like, sort of like, I might sort of say, I would love to see you with somebody who you're intimidated by. Who you feel might be a little bit unattainable. Who you feel might be a little bit too calm and there's not enough crazy going on there.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Or whatever, for that reason, like there's a fascinating thing about sexual attraction related to replication of this stuff.

• 51:13Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 51:15Lewis Howes?

  I want to shift it to relationships with loved ones and parents and family members.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  I feel like there's this big movement, or maybe more people are talking about it now, about going no contact with a parent, a sibling, a family member. When do you know if going no contact with a loved one or a family member is the right thing to do?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I have thoughts about it in a way, ideally. Is when someone is really struggling with a toxic parent. Is they're trying to grow and change. They're trying to heal this stuff. And I find that there's usually this pattern that when they go home for Thanksgiving, when the mom texts them like seven times in a row, like, why aren't you getting back to me? It is a major barrier to their healing. Like no one can really heal fully if they're in an abusive relationship.

• 52:07Lewis Howes?

  Constantly being triggered. Yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  And it's complicated because there's the present relationship with the parent now and so much history behind it. So ideally, like on paper, um, in the way that I did no contact was the idea around, I need to, this was the case for me. Like I was spinning my wheels. I was lacking progress in my therapy that I was spending money and time on. Because my mom would do her usual stuff and it would really just trigger me for a week straight. It was just a very, you know what I mean? So my approach to no contact and I got help around it was, um, I need to just do this work right now. And I will let you know when I'm done with this work. And I made it kind of about me.

• 52:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  And that was in my case, that worked.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  How did she take it?

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Which is indignant and defiant and you know what I mean? How dare you? Like, like usually how usually they all do. It's not in, in anyone's defense, you know what I mean? Getting a letter like that from your child is like, who's going to react strong? Like, you know, like.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  I spent my whole life.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  Horded into you, this and this. Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Unless that parent is just like insightful and aware. Do you know what I mean?

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  If they were insightful and aware, they'd probably have had a different relationship with their child. That wouldn't cause no contact.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  True, but we've had people who, um, the parent was an active alcoholic, got into recovery, changed everything, but their child was an adult now and they paid for the therapy. So that, you know, like that's, there's all kinds of stuff, you know what I mean? In the zeitgeist of this stuff. There is just sort of like.

• 53:38Lewis Howes?

  That still means they weren't aware and conscious.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  At the time.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  When their kid was growing up.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  But talking about a living amends, you know, even talk about making good on something, right? So.

• 53:47Lewis Howes?

  So how long did you go no contact for with your mom?

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Three years.

• 53:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  And then I opened up the door. And then she, I changed, she hadn't.

• 53:56Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  More abuse, more stuff. I was much more in, in more in my body, more empowered.

• 54:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Needed to cut her off again. Um, and then a pattern I had, you know, I'm in my third no contact episode.

• 54:09Lewis Howes?

  Now.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:10Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  That's the, pretty much the final one. Sort of it's been since my son was one and it was around my son.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Around that time. So there's usually for the childhood trauma survivor, like they have tried. And there's just like, there's, I, you know, the, to be blunt, in the zeitgeist of mental health, the conversation, I'm happy to talk about it with you, but the, the overall conversation is like, there's just such an impasse and it's almost dumb. Not almost dumb. It is a dumb kind of a thing because the estranged parents are over here, the adult children are over here. Do you know what I mean? And there's not a lot of, no matter what articles or episodes come out. There is just profound, deep understanding, usually on the estranged parent's side from, you can hear it in the indignant kind of a thing. One thing that I would like to see is I personally believe when it's safe.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  I personally believe that estranged parents should know why. But that's complicated because that parent may not be safe to know why. So that's what I mean about the impasse kind of a thing. Like, you know, I would want to know why.

• 55:18Lewis Howes?

  As a parent.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  As a parent, but there's this dumb story of just like, I don't know what I did. My kid just cut me off. And then they won't even talk to me. And then they make them that to be a moral issue. They don't even talk to me. They must be weak and brainwashed and, and that kind of a stuff. So that's what I mean about it being kind of a complicated thing.

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  So you, you had no contact for three years while you were starting to heal in your early twenties.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:47Lewis Howes?

  And then you reconnected with your mom. And then a period of time went by, you did no contact again.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  And then you reconnected again. How long was that time period, the second time?

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Um, I don't remember. It was like.

• 56:02Lewis Howes?

  Less than a year, more than a year.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Nine, 11. My sibling got married. And there was just, you know, I had changed and she hadn't. But what was a weird thing and a good thing about it, as we get more and more healed, your tolerance for abuse from other people really gets lessened. So that was in, you know what I mean? Like there's just like, the road becomes more narrow around that stuff, which is both a good thing, but.

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  You're good at creating boundaries.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  As you heal.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:29Lewis Howes?

  Hopefully you learn the ability to create a boundary when something is unsafe or unhealthy.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:34Lewis Howes?

  And there's probably a, a gray area of, ah, they, they continue to say these things that are kind of a, maybe not a fully abusive, but I just have to put up with it. And do I want to have my parents or parent in my life? Knowing they're going to say things that I need to, need to accept them. Uh, maybe I don't accept them, but I can deal with it to have them in my life or so that they're, they have grandkids in their life. But what is the line that's crossing where it's a boundary that now it's unsafe or it's emotionally abusive, not just mom or dad is kind of like a jerk.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:07Lewis Howes?

  It's, it's learning to like navigate that problem, which is tricky.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Super tricky. That was really well said. And that's really the crux of it in a way that, you know, if you've changed and your parent has changed, if that was math, the equal sign after that would be superficiality.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  And some people, we can do enough work on ourselves and we can accept that it's going to be superficial.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  If they haven't changed, your parent has not.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  If your parent has not changed in any way.

• 57:33Lewis Howes?

  Then it's like, okay.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  You go home to Thanksgiving dinner, mom is still slamming things, dad is still drinking in the basement. The siblings, everything is superficial. First of all, that's going to feel worse now that you're healed, which is a good thing. But some people, um, in a way they can, they can accept that and they can go to Thanksgiving dinner and, and being able to be loving in a way, knowing they're not going to get the family that they need from them.

• 57:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  That's the superficiality thing.

• 58:00Lewis Howes?

  They're not going to.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  In any relationship, whether that's romantic or whatever, sort of like, if we, you know, it's sort of like, you always hear like, well, we broke up, we were together for five years, but we're friends now. And if there's bad blood or there's no changing or that kind of a thing, it's just, it's not going to really go that deep. Do you know what I mean?

• 58:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  So it's just in a, in a way, but there are, it's also to point out that no contact is not for everybody. It is not, I personally view it as just a, a, a place and time for you to get some healing work and then you can go and try, like in my experience. But some people have such horrific abuse that that's not even a thing. You know what I mean? So.

• 58:40Lewis Howes?

  Is there ever a place, or what would it take for you to go back into contact with your mom? Like what would need to happen?

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's a beautiful question. And without me forcing it or controlling it or whatever, but I would need my parents to, um.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  This is a fascinating question. When I, when I think of people, you know, reconnecting with a parent, I would just simply need my mom to tell the truth. I wouldn't really need her to maybe get sober. I wouldn't need her to maybe change in a way. But I would be able to open up the door and have a dialogue.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  If she's honest.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  If she's just kind of saying, you know what, you know, you were after me about my drinking for years and I know that things were really up and I defended myself forever or whatever. And I know that that's why you needed to do what you need to do. Just honesty. In a way, I think what's tragic about all this no contact stuff is, you know, in a way, there would be more connection without all the taking it personally, with all the defensiveness. Do you know what I mean? Like of sort of, there's also the power dynamic. Estranged parents kind of like to say, okay, I'm not perfect, but you were a hard kid.

• 59:50Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? And it's just kind of, well, there was, there was a power dynamic going. This doesn't how it works. It's not.

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  I'm helpless.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a little bit like, it's like a little, it's a weird analogy, but it's a lot like the CEO. Who's just like, yeah, I was steering this ship, but Bob from accounting was a real up. So that's why all that embezzlement happened. That's how that sounds, you know?

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  No accountability.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  No accountability. No, like I was leading the thing. It was under my watch.

• 1:00:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes, I take full ownership.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  I wanted this whole CEO job or whatever. And what, it's a reflection upon me, what other people do.

• 1:00:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:30Lewis Howes?

  What does healing your inner child do to your nervous system? And does this have physical health benefits when someone does that inner child healing work?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  It definitely can. What it does to the nervous system is around, I think, space and time. In a way that our triggers are just like a hurricane. You just have to wait it out. Or a snowstorm. You just have to wait it out. You know, like ask anybody who has childhood trauma. It's just like, I was triggered by this email from my boss. And even when they're insightful, they're like, fuck, I'm not going to be in this for three days.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:01:06Lewis Howes?

  They're admitting how long it's gonna take.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  That one word sentence, where's the thing on the shared drive? And they're just like, you know what I mean? They know I'm going to be probably in this for three days, obsessing about this, upset, my stomach's going to be upset. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to be dissociated. I'm not going to know where my keys are. You know what I mean? Like all of this stuff. But inner child work takes that three days to a half hour.

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Twenty minutes.

• 1:01:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  By, you have to understand what your child is about. Do you know what I mean? Like that, that's a lot of insightful work that a lot of, it took me a while, but you, that's something people can really practice. What does it take you back to? What does it take me back to when my boss sends me an email? That's just one word. There's no thanks. There's no an exclamation for this. Nothing. You know what I mean? Like it takes me back to always being in trouble. It takes me back to having to read somebody's mind. It takes me back to all this stuff. And a lot of people out there aren't aware of what it takes them back to. And a lot of people are like, well, does it always have to go back there? It usually kind of does. If you grew up in weird stuff, it usually does because your inner child is like, I'm in trouble again.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Now I gotta figure out how I'm in trouble and why I'm in trouble and then forget why and then find out again.

• 1:02:20Lewis Howes?

  You always have that feeling like I'm bad, I'm wrong, I'm in trouble. Like that was like day to day life.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:02:27Lewis Howes?

  I didn't even know how to get out of it.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  But what's beautiful and effective is to do some inner child dialoguing as that person is sitting down at their job is you're not in trouble. Our boss is just that kind of one sentence kind of guy.

• 1:02:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  And at the end of the day, you know, if you can, if you can connect with the charge about a narcissistic parent or things going bad or whatever, or reading somebody's mind, if you can put that over here and you're just like, well, my boss Mary is just busy and that's how she rolls. She's not a great communicator.

• 1:02:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Like there's no harm, no foul in it and you're not in trouble. That's what I really love is when people would start to kind of say like, twenty minutes, I was triggered for twenty minutes, not four days, three days.

• 1:03:08Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:03:11Lewis Howes?

  I have a couple of final questions for you. How can, how can childhood trauma affect someone's ability to manifest and create the life they want?

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Hmm. Um, it, when I, I often had this analogy at the end of that group that I did. I was at sea level with the rest of the world. Meaning I wasn't drowning in the deep end of the pool, flailing around, but not, I had so much shame, I couldn't ask for help. Do you know what I mean? I felt very, like when we started the beginning, I felt very separated from the rest of the world.

• 1:03:45Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  And it's been a lifetime journey to like, sort of like, as I'm sitting here with you. Do you know what I mean? Like there's a place for you in the world, Patrick, and you can say and do good things. So childhood trauma really separates people from that. But it feels really good to just know that you're just another bozo on the bus. In a good way, but also that you, you have a seat at the table of, of opportunities that your inner child used to say, oh, that's not for me. That's for people who are smarter or brighter or whatever, you know?

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Lewis Howes?

  So it makes you believe you have a seat at the table, which is good too.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:22Lewis Howes?

  And what is the link between childhood trauma and imposter syndrome?

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Um, rooted in shame, kind of the same thing. Imposter syndrome, it's often, I think, you know, the Radiohead song Creep? You know, I'm a creep. I don't belong here. That really kind of is like you, you, we identify with that song so much. Because I just picture a guy on the date with a beautiful woman or something like that. And he's like, I just don't belong here. You know, that's to me, trauma. Imposter syndrome is just really kind of where the inner child is sort of saying, see, I don't belong here. And what I tell clients when I was practicing about if they were going to be about to join a group, I was sort of saying, pay attention to what your inner child says in the first group. Because usually the inner child says, I'm not messed up enough to be here.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Or I'm too messed up to be here. Meaning they will find ways to say, that's for other people. I don't belong here. I'm not good looking enough, smart enough, or whatever. I don't come from the right pedigree. You know what I mean? Or whatever. But like, I grew up in bars. Do you know what I mean? And I, I lived that way my whole life of just sort of hiding and masking and I don't belong here, that kind of thing, or just trying to pretend that I belong here when I really didn't.

• 1:05:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  So when you really feel in your core, not from a narcissistic place or an egoic, egoic place that you are just a person in the world afforded the same things. I mean, there's also privilege wrapped up in that. So it's complicated for other people as well. But that's kind of like what I think about it, that you, it's a, and it's a beautiful arrival. When you're like, I deserve this job. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm capable. I'm, you know what I mean? I, I nailed the interview or whatever. But the inner child used to sort of say, they didn't like me. They didn't, they didn't make eye contact.

• 1:06:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you said, we, um, what was the quote? You said, we look at the present through the lens of our childhood.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  That's Amanda.

• 1:06:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's your mentor?

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes. Um. Mm hmm.

• 1:06:25Lewis Howes?

  I've got a couple of final questions again for you, but I want people to, to check you out on social media and your website. patrickteahan.com. They can get more information. Also, you have a great YouTube channel with a lot of great content they can check out as well.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:38Lewis Howes?

  Patrick T. Han official on social media, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. And again, your, your YouTube's been a really helpful resource for so many people. So I want to acknowledge you for, man, the, the trauma that you've been through, but also turning that into a healing journey and the lessons you've learned on how to share this with others who've gone through similar things or less or worse things in you and how to interpret these things, heal these things and live a better life. So I want to acknowledge you for the work that you're doing. And, and all the content you share as well.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 1:07:09Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Lewis Howes?

  This is a question I ask everyone towards the end, Patrick. It's called the three truths. So imagine hypothetically, you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on this earth. And you get to create anything you want from this moment until that last day. Whatever reason this hypothetical question, you have to take all of your work with you. This episode's gone, your videos are gone, books you create, gone from the world.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Lewis Howes?

  But on your last day, you get to leave behind three things that you know to be true, three lessons that you would share with the world. I call it three truths. What would those things be for you?

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  I think the.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  The thing that I said earlier about tenderness, about really being able to sort of, for everybody out there to know that they were just like a beautiful spark and a good kid, like what you see in your own daughter, you know, like sort of like when you see that innocence and whatever, because it's sort of like, everything kind of is dialed into that, you know what I mean? Like, that we, if we can sort of lean into that, that would be one thing.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Another lesson would be,

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  it's just kind of funny. When I was 13 years old and having a strategy and trying to cope with things, I grew up with alcoholics, but I learned something from alcoholics. And that is this kind of like, it, I'll try it. And in a way, like, I had that same attitude, whether it was like a a bong hit, or acid, or drinking in the woods, or whatever. But that same energy was sort of like, it, I'll try undergraduate. You know what I mean? Like, it all apply for this job. So there is, you know, it's not like you can wait until you feel like you can take a risk. You just have to sort of throw something against the wall. And even if you look foolish,

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  is being able to do that. And that's something I weirdly feel grateful for the trauma that I went through. It was, yeah, I'll try anything. You know, whether that was like when the therapist was like, you know, a few years later, it's like, do you want to try, you know, when I'm 14, do you want to try blotter acid? I'm like, yeah. You know, when the therapist is like, you want to do a three and a half year childhood trauma? Yeah, why not? Try it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's the stuff. And I'm big on this. And I think in social media, I think social media does things to us that is dark. And in a way, I would, I want childhood trauma survivors, and they may not be ready, which I get, I wasn't ready. I was not ready to hear things like positivity. I was not ready to hear things like

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  energy work, or spirituality. There was, I had such a reaction to that stuff for many different reasons. But what I'm trying to say is like, and I don't think it lands well, but I want childhood trauma survivors to look for the good in humanity. In a way, because to their experience and their right, humanity got ruined. Trust in people, and that kind of a thing. I think social media really amps that up with the way that we go after people. And sometimes we have, you know, it's good to go after people or whatever, but it's a device that it becomes entertainment for the downfall of humanity. Where I want people to sort of, you know, look, look around for people's smiles, as goofy as that sounds, you know, look around for the nice.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  I was walking out of Starbucks right out of here, and there was this like interchange of this woman coming in and I was coming out. And she held the door, she was just, sir, you know, it was really like whimsical, it was like really fun, kind of a thing, you know what I mean? Like, I love for that, I love that. I love seeing families out there enjoying each other. So, do you know what I mean? But like, when I was really wounded, that was just like, evidence that I couldn't have that, or something like that. Right. So, I want people to lean into it and force themselves a little bit. That's beautiful. And Patrick, the final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  The definition of greatness is not just knowing that your parents were wrong about you, however that looks, but surpassing how you feel about you.

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  So greatness, you know what I mean? Like, there, the work that I do is I love, I love sitting with you, I love talking about this stuff. But my real joy comes from, again, knowing that I was a good kid. That's beautiful. Patrick, thank you so much. Thank you. Powerful.

• 1:11:41Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now, because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you, and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening,

• 1:12:26Lewis Howes?

  then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now, it's time to go out there and do something great.