You Don’t Get Credit For This | On Handling Haters

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast. Each day, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, illustrated with stories from history, current events, and literature to help you be better at what you do. And at the beginning of the week, we try to do a deeper dive, setting a kind of Stoic intention for the week, something to meditate on, something to think on, something to leave you with, to journal about, whatever it is you happen to be doing. So let's get into it.

• 0:42Ryan Holiday?

  You don't get credit for this. Given your success, given your position, given your privilege in society, given what percentage of crimes are prosecuted, or even how many things aren't covered by matters of law, even though they probably should be, it's safe to say that most of us could get away with doing less. It would be nice if people recognized this, but they never seem to, do they? We can imagine Marcus Aurelius getting frustrated when he took flak. Do you guys not remember how bad my predecessors were? Do you guys not understand what usually happens when people get this kind of power? But here's the thing, you don't get credit for what you don't do. You don't get credit for the fact that you could be worse. You don't get credit for not breaking societal

• 1:24Ryan Holiday?

  norms for which the enforcement mechanisms are weak. Nobody threw Marcus Aurelius a parade for not being stained purple, as he wrote in Meditations, "Even if it's an absolute rule, that absolute power corrupts absolutely. We do what's right because it's right. We don't do wrong because it's wrong. Credit should play no part in our calculation. Whether or not we'll escape punishment, whether or not we'll be celebrated, those are not our concerns. Our concern is rooted in what we control, in who we choose to be, by what we do, and what we don't do." And look, that's basically the idea in Right Thing Right Now. I'm not talking about law. I'm not talking about what you can get away with. Talking about the standard that you want to hold yourself. That's the Stoic definition of justice. It plays into the

• 2:07Ryan Holiday?

  other parts. But first and foremost, who am I? What do I do? What is right for me? What would I never do? Because I don't think it's okay. Anyways, you can grab Right Thing Right Now, Good Values, Good Character, Good Deeds, anywhere books are sold. If you want a signed copy, you can grab it at stewart.dailystoic.com.

• 2:32Ryan Holiday?

  On handling haters. And this is from this week's entry in the Daily Stoic Journal. 366 Days of Writing and Reflection on the Art of Living by me, Ryan Holiday, anywhere books are sold, including The Painted Porch, my bookstore. The Stoics taught that kindness trumps hate. They believed that those who engage in hate are prisoners to a destructive passion, that one that hurts the practitioner, not the intended target. There's no reason to hate a hater. They are already suffering enough. In fact, when we see them this way, it makes it easier to be kind, good natured, genuine, and useful. Remember that line in the Bible about how loving your enemies is like pouring hot coals on them because it's so unexpected?

• 3:16Ryan Holiday?

  What can surprise you that way? Whose enmity can you meet with kindness and compassion? And how much better do you feel when you've done so? You know, this is something I've struggled with a bit recently, just having watched my stuff on social media get attacked by a brigand of sort of crazy anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers and weird trolls. And, you know, sometimes I have fun with it. Sometimes I like to stir it up a bit. I try not to get angry about it. It's not something that makes me angry, but there is a part of it that makes me really sad, really frustrated, because it's not that I can't take it. I can take it.

• 3:57Ryan Holiday?

  But what I understand is how these ideas are rippling through and influencing other people, making them fall prey to misinformation or participate in antisocial behavior. But I do try to remember this idea that hurt people hurt people. It is a great expression. I found it to be very true in my life. But I thought I would give you that thought as we get into today's quotes. The first is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 11:3. What if someone despises me? He says, "Let them see to it, but I will see to it that I won't be found doing or saying anything contemptible. What if someone hates me? Let them see to that, but I will see to it that I'm kind and good natured to it all."

• 4:41Ryan Holiday?

  And be prepared to show even the hater where they went wrong. Not in a critical way, or to show off my patience, but genuinely and usefully. So when I respond, I try to have fun with it. And if it doesn't always come off as I'm having fun, I assure you, I am having fun. You know, the Stoics talk about you're gonna laugh or you're gonna cry. I think if you can't have fun with it, if you can't troll the trolls back, then in a sense, they are winning. But let's go to Meditations 11:18. Kindness is invincible, but only when it's sincere and with no hypocrisy or faking. For what even can the most malicious person do if you keep showing kindness? And if given the chance, you gently try to point out where they went wrong, right? As they were trying to harm you. This is the hard part.

• 5:25Ryan Holiday?

  And I talked about this with Brad Stone in his book about Jeff Bezos. You know, Jeff Bezos heard very early on from his grandfather that it's easier to be clever than kind. And I would say this totally drives with my experience. It's easy to have a witty comeback. It's easy to be sarcastic. It's easy to dunk on someone, to point out the obvious and ridiculous flaws or contradictions in their argument, or even to focus on the horrific implications of what they're saying and point out the costs of their behavior. But kindness is almost certainly what is going to convince someone, right? Patience is what it's going to take to convince them. And when you attack, you're almost certainly making them dig in more. I have to remind myself of this.

• 6:10Ryan Holiday?

  And then finally, we have Epictetus's Incaritae in 20. Keep in mind that it isn't the one who has it in for you and takes a swipe that harms you, but rather the harm comes from your own belief about the abuse. So when someone arouses your anger, note that it's really your own opinion that's fueling it. Instead, make it your first response not to be carried away by such impressions. For with time and distance, self mastery is more easily achieved. I talked about this with Malcolm Gladwell on the podcast. The people who dislike what you do are almost always louder than the people who are like, oh, it's pretty good. I liked it, right? Most of the things you like, you just sort of nod your head and move on. But it's the things you really hate. That's what seems to get us riled up. And that's what we seem to talk about most, we complain about most.

• 6:53Ryan Holiday?

  So anyone that puts anything out in the world has to understand how to handle haters, not to be triggered by them, not to be distracted by them, not to be made bitter by them, not to be made worse by them. Talk soon.

• 7:09Ryan Holiday?

  If you want to come see me talk, if you want to see me get over some of my own stage fright, and you want to ask questions and hang out a bit, I would love to see you. I'm doing events in London, Rotterdam, and Dublin in early November, and then after that Vancouver and Toronto. This is all basically the 12th through the 20th, so it's going to be a busy November for me. So grab tickets, ryanholiday.net/tour. Both the events in Australia sold out, so these will sell out also. So grab your tickets. I'll see you all soon.