Ep. 683: The Healing Power of the Outdoors with Pastor Yates

Steven Rinella https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork talks with Pastor Shane Yates https://www.taskforceheroes.org/meet-pastor-yates of Task Force Heroes https://www.taskforceheroes.org, Janis Putelis https://www.taskforceheroes.org, Austin "Chilly" Chleborad, Phil Taylor https://www.instagram.com/philtaylor25/?hl=en, and Corinne Schneider https://www.instagram.com/corinnesschneider/?hl=en. Topics discussed: The military CV that goes on and on; the important work that Task Force Heroes https://www.taskforceheroes.org does for the veteran and first responder community; showering in love and massaging the heart; knowing the rules of where you are; more Chetiquette; what makes a good street cop; being with them; recalling experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan; suicide rates; the importance of having healthy coping mechanisms in dealing with trauma; how the outdoors can help heal us; what’s our hope hooked to?; spiritual resiliency; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Steven Rinella?

  The new dual-threat Pro SD climber is the ultimate companion for both bow and rifle hunters, thanks to its adjustable dual-threat front bar. This innovative feature allows you to tailor the climber based on your preferred hunting method. So you can choose between two climbing modes and two hunting modes. So I like having something that's got this level of versatility. Get 20% off all tree stands by using the code MEATEATER at summitstands.com. That's a phenomenal deal. That's summitstands.com.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Americans own 640 million acres of public land together. Right now, it's being torn up and privatized at the greatest rate in history. On Common Ground: An American Inheritance is a six-part documentary podcast about the immediate threats to America's public lands. It's the story of people refusing to let it happen quietly. Featured by Apple and a Signal Awards Gold Medal winner, listen to On Common Ground: An American Inheritance wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:06Steven Rinella?

  OnX Hunt is full of great features. I always say it's my favorite app. I use the thing on a daily basis. Here's a new feature I'm very excited about. OnX Hunt's location sharing puts your whole group on one live map. So you can look and tell where everyone is. And if at night it gets dark and someone's not back yet, you don't got to guess what happened to them or where they are. You can just look and tell where they are. It has implications for safety, coordination. I can't even list all the ways in which this is helpful. You opt in, and then when you guys are done, the data goes away. It's not stored. Keep the folks in your deer camp on the same page with location sharing from OnX Hunt.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless severely bug bitten and in my case underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:04Steven Rinella?

  You can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at firstlight.com. F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. Joined today by my neighbor, but not Pottery Pat, further down the road Reverend Dr. Shane Yates, CEO and co-founder of Task Force Heroes, who sent us his, upon our request,

• 2:44Steven Rinella?

  he's not bragging, sent us his like military CV. That goes on and on. Chili, what's your take on that? Um, Shane says it just demonstrates that he's old.

• 3:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, we were talking about, you know, how they change things like for example, like for up until like from 2001, like I believe like 2015, 2016, 2017, somewhere in there, like they called it Operation Enduring Freedom, which means like the campaign in Afghanistan. And then in 16 or 17, they changed it to Operation Resolute Support. So like it just kind of signifies like things are constantly changing. So though I don't understand most of what it's on there, it's like, I'm sure there's something similar that I could probably relate it to, but like I look at it, I'm just like, yes, I would refer to him as stacked.

• 3:38Steven Rinella?

  Stacked.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  Which means.

• 3:40Steven Rinella?

  Jacked and stacked.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 3:43Steven Rinella?

  He's getting totally uncomfortable over here.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  So when I, when I say stacked, it's like you look at his like, his, his achievements and medals and like your stack is like your, your ribbons and medals. And so if you're stacked, you have a lot of them.

• 3:54Steven Rinella?

  Bronze Star Medal with Oak Leaf Cluster Combat Action Badge, Iraq Campaign Medal with two Bronze Stars, Afghanistan Campaign Medal with two Bronze Stars, NATO Service Medal, National, I could go on and on. He loves it. He loves it.

• 4:09Speaker 05

  I don't like it.

• 4:11Steven Rinella?

  What I know.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Jump in here, Corinna, help me out.

• 4:13Speaker 06

  Sorry, I put that in there. But I'm not sorry at all.

• 4:17Steven Rinella?

  Born in Kodiak, born in Kodiak, Alaska. Let's, let's take this approach. Born in Kodiak, Alaska. Uh, a long career in law enforcement.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was actually, I was born in.

• 4:27Steven Rinella?

  Stay close to that mic Shane.

• 4:28Speaker 05

  Oh, sorry. I was born in Encino.

• 4:30Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:31Speaker 05

  California, but spent most of my life growing up in Kodiak.

• 4:34Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 4:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:35Steven Rinella?

  And then, long time law enforcement in LAPD.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  LA sheriff.

• 4:40Steven Rinella?

  LA sheriff.

• 4:41Speaker 06

  Sorry, that was my bad.

• 4:42Steven Rinella?

  And then.

• 4:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, don't mix this up with LA. I love my LAPD guys.

• 4:46Speaker 06

  I'll take.

• 4:46Steven Rinella?

  LA sheriff.

• 4:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, alright.

• 4:48Steven Rinella?

  And then, long, long time in the US Army.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I went in a little older. Uh, and again, I'm still in, so I'm not here representing the Army, but, um, I went in after, after law enforcement as a, as a chaplain, which was kind of an interesting change. And, uh, and yeah, been doing that now for almost 18 years in that.

• 5:10Steven Rinella?

  Up the, uh, Shane lives up the road from me and while it did not lives, but Shane's organization Task Force Heroes is based up the road from me on a, on a property. And I just became aware of Shane and wanted to have him on the show because of, he does really cool work, which we're going to get into. Um, Shane hosts, you tell, tell everybody what you tell everybody.

• 5:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:35Steven Rinella?

  I wanted to do it like an intro, but I'd rather just hear it from you.

• 5:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. So we bring up first responders and vets from all across the country, uh, totally free. Um, I mean, guys and gals from, uh, various agencies, a lot of them been involved in some of the more major, critical incidents that have gone on in the country. So we're, we're blessed, uh, to do that. And then vets from, from all over the country as well. So police, fire and, and either actively serving or, or veterans.

• 6:04Steven Rinella?

  Give an example of some of the groups you might have up. I mean, as much as you're comfortable.

• 6:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:07Steven Rinella?

  You've at various times told me about groups you had in and it could be like a collection of officers. Who've been involved in a specific incident or.

• 6:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:16Steven Rinella?

  How, how much are you comfortable talking about?

• 6:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, no.

• 6:18Steven Rinella?

  Like for instances.

• 6:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, we can talk a little about that. So we get a ton of, uh, for whatever reason, probably just some like connections in, in LA, but, uh, we get a lot of LAPD guys, a lot of metro division, you know, tier one level, you know, SWAT, K9 guys up.

• 6:35Speaker 05

  A lot of, uh, we've had a lot of Huntington Beach pilots, uh, Huntington Beach PD folks, Long Beach Fire from some incidents that occurred there, uh, an unfortunate incident in particular where a, where a captain was, was killed on a fire, uh, by a pistol, uh, by a guy with a handgun. And then, uh, you know, vets from all over the place and from multiple conflicts, uh, mostly OIF, OEF, Iraq, Afghanistan stuff. Um, a lot of pilots, 160th SAW guys, just kind of all over, all over the board.

• 7:08Steven Rinella?

  And these guys come up and, uh, they, they fish, you guys shoot bows, you get outside, and as Shane puts it, he, he put it to me, um, uh, the technical term, he put to me, we shower them in love.

• 7:24Speaker 05

  Man, I mean, I think, you know, the, here's, here's the deal, right? The goal is to reach in and massage their hearts and, and love on them and meet them right where they are, not where we think they need to be, uh, just, just right where they are in their journey. Um, and so we do fly fishing, right? We teach that, we do archery stuff. We used to do more mountain biking, but they seem to like the archery is probably their favorite. Uh, we said, we set up a course, 3D targets, all that, kind of a long course, and then, uh, and then get them out fishing. And then we, we don't want them just to, just to go have fun. I mean, that's a, that's a part of it, right? To kind of decompress, get out of the concrete jungles that they're working in or wherever they're at. Um, we want them to, to take home something as well for their toolbox. And, and, uh, and so we teach resiliency

• 8:09Speaker 05

  skills, kind of the five pillars. We'll talk about spiritual resiliency, whatever that looks like to them. You could also substitute the word resiliency for fitness, but, uh, spiritual resiliency, physical, uh, resiliency, emotional, social, family, um, mental, all those kinds of, all those kinds of things too. So they learn something while they're there. And then we also give them a little shot of some leadership stuff. Um, we talk about their core, their context, their capabilities and courage. What's real courage look like?

• 8:40Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:41Speaker 05

  You know, where, where are you going to stand up? And, and, and let's look at the times where you should have stood up for what was right. Um, and so we cover all those. Context would be where you're currently at in your life, your marriage. Family, work, capabilities, what are those God given gifts and talents that you have that maybe you're not using? What are the things that rob you of your energy, man, and drain you? And what are the things that you can do that give you energy? So obviously outdoors is one of those things.

• 9:11Steven Rinella?

  We're gonna dive into that pretty deep and then talk about your own background. But you gotta hang tight with us for a minute. We're gonna talk about a couple other things.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:20Steven Rinella?

  We have.

• 9:24Steven Rinella?

  This is, a lot of times guys write in with like really arcane, fishing wildlife, rule breaking questions.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  Okay, alright.

• 9:37Steven Rinella?

  And so we gotta do a little listener feedback here. You ready for this one?

• 9:43Steven Rinella?

  So this guy says, Meat Eater Crew, I have recently watched your episode titled, The Future of Waterfowl. The segment about how limits on waterfall are decided remind me of a question I have had, I have discussed with buddies while sitting in the blind. You ready for this Shane?

• 10:04Steven Rinella?

  I, I live in Northern Kentucky along the Ohio River. A lot of fishermen and hunters in this area purchase a Kentucky license as well as an Indiana license, so that we can access the tributaries on both sides of the river. Most laws are pretty straightforward, but one area that is questionable are the limits for each state. For example, as a Kentuckian, we are allowed three, Canadian, allowed three Canada geese during the late season. As a Hoosier in the Southern Zone, you are allowed five Canada geese daily for the duration of the season. My questions are as follows. As a Kentucky resident that

• 10:47Steven Rinella?

  holds a license for both states, hunting on water that is legal for both states, what is my legal limit during the late season? Does it depend on which ramp you launch off? Or which state's wildlife officer checks you? Can I shoot a limit for both states?

• 11:11Speaker 07

  I think it's funny how after you didn't huh?

• 11:14Steven Rinella?

  I took it to a game warden.

• 11:15Speaker 07

  Well, yeah, it's funny though that he says that he purposely hasn't taken it to a game warden. Cause he just loves talking about it and just wondering about it and writing into Meat Eater about it.

• 11:27Steven Rinella?

  Yep. It's like when I often times.

• 11:29Speaker 07

  Go to the game warden.

• 11:30Steven Rinella?

  When I would send a question to a game warden, go game warden, it's like, uh, you know, uh, well, let's say a fella, you know? Just maybe.

• 11:42Speaker 07

  Before you give the answer, can I take a stab?

• 11:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I don't have the, I, I have how a game warden, I asked a retired game, recently retired game warden, how he would handle it and he gave me a couple of things to think about.

• 11:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, cause they'll always tell you that it's up to their interpretation, right? But I would think, I, I would feel like I would have a very strong case, no matter which state I launched in. If I had the correct hunting license and he has both, if I went to the state where you could shoot more geese, then I shot more geese there, not in the state where you could only shoot three, but where you could shoot five, which was in Indiana, and I shot five geese and then I came back to Kentucky. I was just over there hunting as a non-resident hunter. As long as you could prove where you were and where you shot your five geese, it shouldn't be a problem. Uh, and it's a definite no on the question whether you can shoot two limits.

• 12:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 06

  That seems obvious.

• 12:43Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna offer and this, I'm gonna offer a couple little, just, just a little color from different areas before I tell you what the game warden said. He, he didn't say anything like dramatic, you know, like, like stunning. But like, let me give you a couple of things to consider. We might have discussed this in the original conversation, but like, for instance,

• 13:03Steven Rinella?

  take the Delaware River, which, uh, for a while, along its course, it forms the border between New York and Pennsylvania. They created a, a sort of unified zone. So that you didn't have New York law in that river contradicting Pennsylvania law in that river. The two states come together and come up with a river. Bag limit. You can fish the entire river with either state's license. But then the river has a bag limit. It sits aside, like, let's say, New York is like six bass a day. Pennsylvania, I'm just pulling these numbers out, they're not real. Pennsylvania has four bass a day. And so instead of some guy saying, well, do I get six or four?

• 13:47Steven Rinella?

  They go and say, in the river, in that river, we're going to come together and say it's five in that river. That's one way to handle it. Um, another example that's totally different is if you go to uh, the St. Mary's River, which forms the border between the United States and Canada, particularly Michigan and Ontario. Um, you have to like know in that river channel, this, the international boundary runs up the river. You're obligated to know where you are.

• 14:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, the border patrols in that.

• 14:20Steven Rinella?

  You're obligated to know, like, this line you can't see. It's your responsibility to know that you didn't drift five feet over into the US while fishing.

• 14:29Speaker 06

  For sure.

• 14:30Steven Rinella?

  And that, that's, that's how they look at it. Um, I had one more example. I thought it was kind of interesting about how they do all this. Well, here's what the warden said. The warden said, I'd be asking you, I'd be looking at two questions. Where were you? Oh, no, I got one more color, one more, one more bit of color. In Alaska, they do an interesting thing with this where it kind of pertains. Let's say that you have one area and you're allowed three black-tailed deer per year. And you have another area and you're allowed one black-tailed deer per year. Throughout the season, you can't hunt a place

• 15:15Steven Rinella?

  where you are over that place's bag limit, regardless of where you got them.

• 15:20Speaker 06

  Oh, collectively? So if you're in the three limit and you shoot one, you can't go hunt in the one limit, got it.

• 15:26Steven Rinella?

  So, so let's say like, I, let's say you are go down to the, you go down to Sitka. And you kill a black, you, you kill a black-tailed. And then you go to your home and your home is a one bag limit. You're out in your home. You couldn't be like, well, I got my one there where it's three. It's like it your possession limit follows you to wherever you go. So the warden that I brought this question to said, I would be looking at where were you when you shot them? Obviously, but then I would also be wondering, um, I would be looking at two is besides that. Where were you when you possessed them?

• 16:07Steven Rinella?

  So you're thinking of that you cross the channel and kill you cross the channel in a place and kill five where you're allowed five. But then you're pulling out, you're still got your shotgun with you and you're still look to be hunting. And you're, and you're pulling your boat out in a three zone. He would feel that you were over your possession.

• 16:30Steven Rinella?

  In the field. And it'd be like, well, I understand you got them over there, but here you're hunting.

• 16:39Steven Rinella?

  And you're over your possession.

• 16:42Steven Rinella?

  And that's, that's his take on it.

• 16:45Speaker 06

  I feel like that's reading the rules in a way where um. You're uh, you're trying to be like the most fair, like you're not trying to like. Advantage yourself.

• 16:59Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 06

  In a, in a little, you know, like, I think that's the right way. So I think that our, our listener. Probably like deep inside his heart knows what the answer.

• 17:09Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 17:10Speaker 06

  Really is. Um, so there.

• 17:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And maybe the warden, like the warden's in a position where uh, he is, you really got to go figure out where you were standing when he shot all these. He's just like, dude, you're like out in your boat hunting. You got your gun. You got five geese. You're here.

• 17:29Steven Rinella?

  Like you're here. You're over your limits.

• 17:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  I also feel like it's a pretty, pretty easy question to answer because I can. I guarantee like he's not the first person along that river that has ever had that question. And or maybe you're not done that. Um, so just.

• 17:46Speaker 04

  Call the, your, your FWP, your game warden and ask them. Cause I'm sure they've dealt with it before. So it's like, I feel like he went out of his way to, to email us where he could have just called the FWP office and figured it out.

• 17:58Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, I think he emailed because this is my favorite, it's my favorite subject in the world.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Right, but like.

• 18:03Steven Rinella?

  Like just like weird game laws.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  But, no, no, no, totally. What I'm saying is like, he emailed with not knowing if he could get a response from you. But he could have certainly got a response from, guaranteed response from FWP.

• 18:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, but he's also contributing to our content. So thanks, thanks.

• 18:17Steven Rinella?

  Thank you very much. Despite chili, despite chili thinking that you like screwed up and, and, and, yeah, man. Come on, dude.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Good question.

• 18:29Steven Rinella?

  This next one, we're gonna go to, we're gonna go to Reverend, uh, we're gonna go to our pastor.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  Alright, here we go.

• 18:34Steven Rinella?

  Cause this is, this is an ethics one. Now, you got law enforcement background, so you could have definitely weighed in on law enforcement. We're gonna bring an ethics one to you.

• 18:41Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 18:42Steven Rinella?

  We do a thing called, uh, we have a colleague called Chester and Chester's the nicest, most fair guy in the world.

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Right.

• 18:48Steven Rinella?

  So a lot of times we'll bring etiquette questions and we call him Chetiquet and we'll bring him to Chester. Who usually waffles. He's usually like, wow, you know, I can see both sides, you know? But here's an ethics one for you.

• 19:01Speaker 05

  Alright.

• 19:03Steven Rinella?

  Hello, crew. You ready? You following Shane?

• 19:06Speaker 05

  I'm following. Hello, crew.

• 19:09Steven Rinella?

  I hunt rural South Carolina on my father-in-law's property, which is mostly open row crop fields with a few blocks of wood between fields. You picturing it?

• 19:18Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:20Steven Rinella?

  My father-in-law in the late 2000s bought the land from his father-in-law. This sounds like a right thing for, I haven't read this yet. This sounds like there might be a divorce brewing somewhere in this email. A lot of in-laws.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  I don't think that fact's actually important to the.

• 19:36Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it's not, it doesn't wind up being about divorce? Okay, so just a little background. Father-in-law bought it from father-in-law. There is a guy that has half a dozen stands scattered across the property. It's roughly 800 acres. He also loans his spots out to his friends to hunt as they please.

• 19:58Steven Rinella?

  This guy theorizes that this individual is charging these people to hunt and has turned this land into a hunting club. My father-in-law has zero interest in hunting, so this is not really an issue for him. But it is for my wife, his daughter, and her brother, along with myself. So, just to help people at home understand, the patriarch who actually owns the land doesn't care what this guy does. His children care.

• 20:28Speaker 07

  And this guy has no affiliation with the family, other than he used to have access with the previous owner, father-in-law of his father-in-law.

• 20:39Steven Rinella?

  So, yeah, I'll continue on. He, the patriarch, does not want to completely kick the guy off the land because he had permission to hunt there before my father-in-law acquired the property. So, he feels that he should be allowed a couple stands, but only the one guy, not his buddies.

• 20:59Speaker 06

  Lots of feelings.

• 21:00Speaker 05

  There's lots.

• 21:01Steven Rinella?

  However, the guy has never actually asked my father-in-law for hunting permission since he has been the landowner for 17 years. I confronted the guy and drew on the map the one field, about 85 acres, that me, along with my wife and brother-in-law, were okay with him. And only him hunting. He was not a fan of my suggestion and responded that he was gonna hunt the whole road, which is about 400 acres. How can I handle this for the 2025 deer hunting season? My wife is leaning towards calling the game warden.

• 21:46Steven Rinella?

  This guy points out, I don't know this will do much good because my father-in-law is not the guy, kinda guy to press trespassing charges. Meanwhile, the brother-in-law wants to tear down the hunting stands.

• 21:59Steven Rinella?

  What's the cleanest way to avoid any larger issues if there are any?

• 22:05Speaker 06

  I mean.

• 22:05Steven Rinella?

  It's pretty obvious.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 06

  This guy feels pretty darn entitled.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  I think Pops has got the last say, right?

• 22:11Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 22:11Speaker 05

  I mean, that's, that's about mine. He's, he's barking up the wrong tree.

• 22:14Steven Rinella?

  He wrote the email to the wrong people.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's, yeah. I'm sorry, man.

• 22:20Speaker 05

  It's, it's, that's an ethical, that's a good one. I wish I had easy ones like that all the time.

• 22:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it sounds like you gotta go talk to dad.

• 22:27Speaker 05

  And if dad's cool with it, then there, I mean, that's it.

• 22:31Speaker 04

  But isn't there like?

• 22:32Speaker 06

  Kind of sway dad.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Like if he got permission from, you know, two owners ago, he would, he would.

• 22:38Steven Rinella?

  He's got his own problem.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, but he would also need to get permission again or every time.

• 22:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  Like under new ownership.

• 22:45Speaker 07

  Not according to this guy.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  Well, not according to that guy. So like.

• 22:48Steven Rinella?

  He has a tacit, he enjoys a tacit permission from the father-in-law. Whatever's going on between the guy and the father-in-law, if the owner of the property is like, I don't want to mess with the guy, that's his call.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:03Steven Rinella?

  I got, we got a funny story.

• 23:06Steven Rinella?

  Similar, similar to this where I probably, I'm sure I've told this, but I'll tell it.

• 23:12Steven Rinella?

  A friend of mine had a, friend of mine from school had a, her family owned some properties in California. I'm talking to her dad. And her dad's like, yeah, you guys can hunt turkeys. He says, no one's ever hunted turkeys except for, it was, it was like, I'm not exaggerating, 20 years ago.

• 23:29Steven Rinella?

  He, 20 years prior, he had been trying to put in a water system. He had a, he had a pond. And he was trying to put in a, a wildfire water system of his own. So some guys from the local fire department came out and consulted with him about how to go about putting in his own pump system so that he could fight fire if his house was going to catch on fire. And as a thank you, he extended a permission to one of these firefighters to hunt turkeys. He's telling me, no one's hunted it since that guy, when I put the pump in.

• 24:06Steven Rinella?

  While we're hunting, while we're hunting, we run into a guy and here's a guy hunting the place.

• 24:13Steven Rinella?

  And I'm, and I, you know, it's a yard, you feel funny because like you're have permission too, but you can't, you gotta like ask like, hey, what's, you know, my understanding from the landowners, no one's hunting, but here's a guy hunting. So I'm like, hey, what, what's up? Oh yeah. You know, Glenn gave me permission. I'm a firefighter.

• 24:32Steven Rinella?

  And I, you talk to Glenn lately? No, how is Glenn doing?

• 24:38Steven Rinella?

  This guy had been hunting for 20 years.

• 24:43Steven Rinella?

  Off that permission.

• 24:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, I mean, the right, obviously the right thing to do is you gotta, you gotta be checking in, man. If you're hunting somebody, check in once in a while, man. I mean, that's, that's a no go.

• 24:55Speaker 06

  I mean, that's like,

• 24:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I talked to him. When was the last time y'all, it was back in 1974. He gave me permission here. That's, it's a bad deal.

• 25:03Speaker 07

  I think it's rampant though. Like we just, I, I, I had a little bit of a windfall with another property in Wisconsin that we just gained access to. And I've been kind of giddy about it. Then I started thinking about it. I'm like, you know, if everything's right, according to these uh, older Latvian gals, that no one's been hunting this place for some time. It mean, and they haven't been there in years and their kids don't have anything to do with it. Someone else is probably treating it as their hunting spot.

• 25:31Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 25:32Speaker 07

  Like I will not be surprised when I go there this spring to find tree stands, maybe a camera, maybe some tire tracks.

• 25:41Speaker 07

  I, I think, yeah, it's the,

• 25:42Steven Rinella?

  I guarantee it.

• 25:43Speaker 07

  It's the old, uh, you know, better ask for forgiveness than permission attitude.

• 25:49Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have weather tech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats in with weather tech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got weather tech, you're going to be covered. I love these. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig

• 26:29Steven Rinella?

  nice and clean and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit weatherTech.com for your holiday shopping today. You need credit to buy, well, pretty much any big thing. So how do you get started? Easy. The One Pay Builder Card. It's simple and smart. One Pay is the banking app trusted by millions of Americans and the One Pay Builder Card is an easy way to build credit. Just use it to make everyday purchases, build your credit history, and then you can work up to the big milestones, buying a new car or a new house, or hell, maybe something I'm always thinking about, which is another boat. Those moments start with small, consistent

• 27:11Steven Rinella?

  steps with the One Pay Builder Card. Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters. One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder Card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through One Pay at onepay.com/podcast. You know those snacks that disappear way faster than you planned? That's Wiley Wallaby licorice for me. I tossed a bag in my truck for a recent trip and before I knew it, it was gone. I ate it, my kids ate it, my wife ate it. We all love it. What sets it apart

• 27:51Steven Rinella?

  is the texture. It's authentic Australian style licorice that's soft and chewy, not hard and waxy like most brands. They've got more than 10 flavors to choose from. I love that it's made in the USA by a company that's been doing things the right way for more than 60 years. Use code MEATEATER at shop.wileywallaby.com for free shipping and try some yourself.

• 28:20Steven Rinella?

  When we were little, uh, it's stunning now to drive around where I live with, with Onyx. Because when we're little, if public meant you hadn't been yelled at there yet.

• 28:35Steven Rinella?

  And now to be like, oh my God, that's like a guy's place. I never really thought about what that place was. We just called it The Woods.

• 28:43Speaker 06

  I'm surprised it isn't, that people really, um, don't check in more and that's so common because, you know, you could get in real big trouble for trespassing. So don't you want to be a, I just feel like the excuse of, you know, someone 17 years ago gave me permission, doesn't hold. Like the one consonant in life is change. So, you know, you don't want to be current.

• 29:07Speaker 07

  Real big trouble though. And it's just, it's, there isn't the real big trouble. I mean, it's gonna be a slap on the hand. It's like driving your ATV places. You're not supposed to drive it on these public lands.

• 29:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 07

  People do it because what are they gonna do? There's like a couple hundred dollar fine. They're like, oh, I'd pay a thousand bucks and drive my ATV.

• 29:27Steven Rinella?

  For access fee.

• 29:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, exactly.

• 29:28Speaker 06

  Maybe we should, I don't know, maybe we should, someone should think about changing the law. Cause that's.

• 29:35Speaker 07

  No, I don't know, Corinne. More rules and regulations around these parts. People don't like that.

• 29:41Steven Rinella?

  All right, Shane, you ready?

• 29:42Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 29:43Steven Rinella?

  Why'd you guys go to Kodiak? You were born where? Where were you born?

• 29:46Speaker 05

  I was born in California, Southern California.

• 29:47Steven Rinella?

  How old are you?

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Uh, I'm, I'm going to 57.

• 29:50Steven Rinella?

  How long you been married?

• 29:51Speaker 05

  Yeah. Uh, he's asked me these tough ones. My wife's gonna listen to this and make sure I get this right. I was married in 92. So, uh, what is that?

• 29:59Steven Rinella?

  I don't know.

• 30:00Speaker 07

  A lot of years.

• 30:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, 32, 33, 33 years.

• 30:03Steven Rinella?

  Congratulations.

• 30:04Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. She put up with me.

• 30:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. That's your only wife?

• 30:07Speaker 05

  Surprising. It's my only wife.

• 30:09Steven Rinella?

  Uh, so why, why Kodiak?

• 30:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. So my dad did contracts, military contracts, was a builder, painter, did a lot of that. So, and, and he had a buddy from, uh, Vietnam, it was up there crab fishing. So he started doing construction stuff and then then he went crab fishing.

• 30:27Steven Rinella?

  Oh, really?

• 30:27Speaker 05

  Barrier sea stuff, yeah.

• 30:29Steven Rinella?

  Huh, and you were brought up around that?

• 30:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:32Steven Rinella?

  Had he been, had your dad been military?

• 30:34Speaker 05

  He was in Vietnam, yeah. Yeah.

• 30:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, talk about, I I've lost track of what it is, but but lay out your family like you guys are a family of service, man.

• 30:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:44Steven Rinella?

  Walk through that a little bit, it's kind of, I I, when you're telling me it before, I was like, I couldn't even follow all the people

• 30:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:50Steven Rinella?

  from your lineage.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I'm not sure where you want me to start, but grandparents served, you know, grandfathers, my dad served. I served, my three sons are serving, two in the military, one in law enforcement. And then my daughter's in law enforcement, one of my girls, and then my other daughter.

• 31:18Speaker 05

  She's got two kids and she she's the only one that's not not serving, but she's she's low on the list for for a fire department, so. That's what she's gonna do.

• 31:28Steven Rinella?

  So that was a little bit baked in by your dad or no? Like, he wasn't bitter about Vietnam?

• 31:32Speaker 05

  He he didn't talk about Vietnam a lot, man. I love my pops, man, but he he was always happy, right? Like, always a happy guy. Good mood, never cranky, never grumpy, wouldn't really get too much into into Vietnam, but but I just kind of watched him and and the little bits he would say. Just kind of always stood out, you know, to me, as as hugely important. He'd always talk about his buddies over there and and different things like that.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  And he was a a former law enforcement guy, so he started with California Highway Patrol way back in the day. So I watched that service a lot.

• 32:09Speaker 05

  And, yeah, that was kind of my my boat, my motivator, even even in high school, even in Alaska. I think I was only one of my buddies and I'm tight with all my buddies from up there, just a small town, right? You grow up island, right? I mean, there was one stoplight when I was growing up. We were excited to get a McDonald's when we were, I think, in eighth grade or something.

• 32:29Speaker 05

  But I think I'm the only one that went into to, you know, military law enforcement type stuff.

• 32:35Steven Rinella?

  Out of that crew you grew up around?

• 32:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, out of that crew.

• 32:38Steven Rinella?

  And what was the first move you made in that direction?

• 32:41Speaker 05

  What do you mean, what year did we go there?

• 32:43Steven Rinella?

  No, no, I'm sorry. When you were, when you were young, you got into law enforcement?

• 32:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, real young. So I left Alaska and I don't know, eighty seven, but I'd go back up and fish. So the last place I fished was Bristol Bay Commercial, uh, gill netting.

• 32:59Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you did?

• 32:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, fish there. I fished kinda all over Alaska, commercial fishing. Um, salmon, herring, halibut openings. And then, uh, and then after that, went to school for a little while at Boise State, not long. And then, and then went to, went to LA. I kinda wanted to see the, the action and, and where it was kinda all happening. And I certainly got that, but, uh, yeah, I got hired, hired there in eighty eight. So.

• 33:27Steven Rinella?

  What year, what year in LA was the, it was later, the, the Rodney King incident and all that?

• 33:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was there for that. It was, uh, ninety two.

• 33:35Steven Rinella?

  That was ninety two?

• 33:36Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 33:37Steven Rinella?

  Did you specifically wanna go there because of family ties into California or just because you thought that was a place you were gonna?

• 33:44Speaker 05

  Well, I was, I mean, it was, it's the largest sheriff's apartment, I believe, in the, in the country and, and just advanced. And, um, I kinda wanted to see the inner city and, and kinda go for the top, you know?

• 33:56Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:56Speaker 05

  Toughest place and, and, uh, I was young and no responsibility at the time. So, um, I went there. And, uh, I was actually on Normandy when, when the riots jumped off. Well, you know, the, uh, Denny was getting kinda whooped up pretty good. Um, just, uh, up at Florence and Normandy. So I was just south on, on Normandy, south of Imperial. So we were, we were fairly close. We didn't know he was up there getting whooped up on.

• 34:24Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:25Speaker 05

  I was just handling the call. Guy gets car shot up, this little housing project. And, uh, partner was down, down at the car. I was just getting the info. And all of a sudden, doors started swinging open and. You know, certain things were being said to us and, and so I just started jumping steps about every three or four steps, get back to the car and, and immediately the riots just jumped off. So we were going south on Norman and the streets were flooding and, I mean, it was like immediate. That's what was kind of wild to see. Just the immediate reaction of chaos.

• 34:59Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  And I remember looking back and seeing just people in the streets, stores getting looted. And we were called back to the station to kind of gear up. And that's what we did. We, we geared up and they just said, do what you can do. Try to roll two cars deep. And so that's what we did for the next couple of days.

• 35:17Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 35:17Speaker 05

  So, yeah, it was different.

• 35:20Steven Rinella?

  Now, just in your first few years of that?

• 35:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. I had worked custody, you know, with the sheriffs, you got to work in the jails first. So that's kind of an experience.

• 35:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  Um, I worked up at a supermax facility and, um, that's, that's an interesting environment. You, you can kind of learn the streets a little bit from being in there.

• 35:37Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  You know, talking to, to inmates and, and whatnot, but, um, yeah, yeah. Then you get, you, you know, you put in your dream list or your wish list for, I think back then it was six choices. So my first choice was to go down to South Central and, and work. And I got my first choice. So you can kind of watch your numbers as they get lower and lower to when you're going to go out. I did 28 months in the jail.

• 36:02Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 36:03Speaker 05

  And then, and then got assigned there. So then you go to patrol school and then you'll get your station and your trainee for a while. And that was an experience. Uh, I don't know how it is now, but, uh, it was humbling. Yeah.

• 36:19Steven Rinella?

  What, what was it like absorbing all that, uh, you know, absorbing that hatred of cops at that time in LA?

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, man. Um.

• 36:31Speaker 05

  You know, I guess it's, it was, it's a little bit hard to understand. I mean, when you roll into an area where, you know, it's, it's painted, you know, spray painted certain words against the 5-0 or, you know, that kind of stuff. Um, it was different for a kid that grew up in a tiny town, you know?

• 36:51Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  Um, that, that, that first night on patrol was, was wild. Uh, as a trainee, as a new, new person, my FTO wasn't there that night, so rode with a different guy and, and so back then it was, you know, training was, was hard and you're the new person, so you just keep your mouth shut and do your work.

• 37:12Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:13Speaker 05

  And, uh, yeah, it was, it was different. Um, you know, I, I don't think it really affected me. I mean, you just do your job, you just do your thing. Um, support the community as best you can, support your, your fellow, fellow deputies, but, um, it was definitely a, a different environment from what I had grown up in, for sure.

• 37:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, how do you, how do you look at it like, if you, if you look at the LA riots at that time, just for, for younger people who don't remember this, there was an incident where, I mean, it's like, if someone really wants to dig in on this, um, Made in Amer- the, the documentary, I don't know if you've seen it, Made in America, that, that covers the LA riots really carefully, because it winds up being, it's this very long ESPN thing about OJ Simpson, but it spends a ton of time on the LA riots, but-

• 38:01Speaker 05

  Right.

• 38:02Steven Rinella?

  So, a bunch of officers pull over a guy, Rodney King. He resisted arrest somewhat, they beat the snot out of him.

• 38:11Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:12Steven Rinella?

  Um, they got acquitted, is that how it goes?

• 38:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:15Steven Rinella?

  And then, and then all hell broke loose.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Right.

• 38:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 38:18Steven Rinella?

  Uh-

• 38:19Speaker 05

  They chased him for, for a long time.

• 38:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 38:23Steven Rinella?

  Um-

• 38:24Speaker 05

  Somebody got on video.

• 38:25Steven Rinella?

  That's right.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:27Steven Rinella?

  Back, this is back when everything wasn't on video.

• 38:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, no.

• 38:30Steven Rinella?

  It was novel.

• 38:31Speaker 05

  It certainly was after that.

• 38:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Uh, how's that, like, when, when something like that happens for, what, what, what's your attitude toward those officers? Do you know what I mean? Do you, do you stay like-

• 38:49Steven Rinella?

  Do you stay where you're going, you think to yourself, well, I understand where they're coming from. I understand where they got pushed to. Or do you look at something like that when you're a policeman and you look at something like that and you'd be like, man, you guys should have known better. Like, like, how do you handle it internally?

• 39:03Speaker 05

  I think, I think one of the biggest things is, is you never know what's gone on prior to this, right? Or, or what the call was, or, or what's happening. I'm certainly not, I'm certainly not justifying the, the amount of force is used. I wasn't there, you know, I don't, I don't know, other than what I saw. But, um, there, there's always many details and conversations and things said, um, and things done by the suspect as well, as the, as the cop, that, uh, I, I think that, that plays a huge role in all that, you know? And, and it's easy to, you know, again, not that situation, but other situations, you know, you, you can see on TV and you can watch it, but who knows what happened prior to that, or what he was wanted for, or what

• 39:48Speaker 05

  his actions were, what he said, or what the witness said, or all that stuff.

• 39:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 05

  Is a huge piece of the, the story.

• 39:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And in those cases, that's the thing I always wind up thinking, I always wind up looking and I'm like, man, I would have to have like a documentary about what went on that day before I can really start putting together who did what. Now that you see stuff and you're like, it seems egregious, but then you're like, I don't know what the hell happened, man.

• 40:13Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:13Steven Rinella?

  Like, you know, I, I don't know the background.

• 40:16Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:16Steven Rinella?

  And why, it winds up being hard to weigh in on it, you know?

• 40:18Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:19Steven Rinella?

  People are sure quick to.

• 40:20Speaker 05

  Right.

• 40:21Steven Rinella?

  But I always feel a little reluctance.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  Right. Yeah. I mean, in, in the, every, you know, encounter with someone, you, you don't know who you're encountering. I don't know what they knew about him or his background. I mean, I've heard things, uh, but you know, all those things play a, play a role. What was he wanted for? What was the crime committed? But again, I mean, you do have to kind of, kind of chill, right? Yeah. I mean, you gotta, you gotta get to a point where you can, you can function and take care of business without getting too caught up in the, in the scenario.

• 40:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  I mean, that's, that's my thought. But again, I, I wasn't there, different department. So I don't, I don't, uh, I don't judge any anything, any, anything going on there too much. I mean, it didn't look great, right, on film. It just, it, it obviously didn't, so, um, but not being there, I'll, I'll hold, I'll hold my, my judgment.

• 41:15Steven Rinella?

  So how long did you stay, uh, with LA Sheriff?

• 41:18Speaker 05

  So I was there from eighty-eight to ninety-six or so, and then transferred up to Washington State. Uh, I just didn't want to raise my kids down anymore, you know, it's, it's, it's getting rough. It was getting rough when I lived in a, in a town and, and forgive me all you people from Pondale, Lancaster, but, uh, I was living ninety miles one way from, from the station to my house.

• 41:40Steven Rinella?

  Ooh.

• 41:41Speaker 05

  So, you know, when you got court every day, you got, I was working graveyard most of the time, you're getting off in the morning, and then you got court, you're not coming home, you're sleeping in the bunk room, then you're driving eighty-nine miles home, or, you know, whatever you decide to do. Um, that, that was a lot. And then when you're starting to get gangsters roll up in your, in your driveway trying to okey doke the police, what I mean by okey doke is trying to noack them, or, you know, not acknowledge them, maybe they, they're trying to pretend like they live at your house, and you're getting woke up by someone trying to open your door, and, uh, and deputies are in hot pursuit behind him, or containment's in your yard, um, it's probably time to.

• 42:24Speaker 07

  Hold on, that happens randomly?

• 42:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, it happened to me three times, so.

• 42:28Speaker 07

  But they're not because you were a politi-, not because you were a sheriff, but it was just a coincidence?

• 42:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 42:33Speaker 07

  Whoa.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's a di-, they're a different world. I mean, at the station I work, we average about sixty-six homicides a, a year. So, this is a different environment, man, just different. But when that started happening, I mean, I'd, I'd get message on my MDT, oh, hey, we got a containment, a guy just jumped your fence in your backyard, and my wife's home with little kids, and.

• 42:55Steven Rinella?

  Nothing to do with you being a cop?

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Nothing to do with it. He just happened to pull his caper somewhere close, right? I mean, and that was his route that he, that he took. So it, it wasn't the greatest area to live in, so, um, I couldn't afford to live in some of the other, other spots on a, on a single income. And so it, it was time. It was time. A great department, great people, some of the best. My opinion, some of the best street cops there in this country, probably the world, you know, work there.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  What makes a good street cop?

• 43:26Speaker 05

  I think a guy that can communicate well, right? A guy that can, I think also empathize, have compassion, but also be direct and can communicate, um, can kind of relate and communicate well with, with the people in the community.

• 43:41Speaker 05

  You know, and that's, I think those are, those are huge. Um, and I think there's also kind of a sixth sense, right? Like, you know, being able to see and watch and learn and pay attention to the small details and listen to the small details.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  And then time in the, in the radio car, right? I mean, you just, you gotta put in your time. And, uh, yeah, I think those are some of the, some of the factors.

• 44:08Speaker 04

  Did things chill out when you went to Washington State?

• 44:10Speaker 05

  It was different. Yeah, it was different, a lot different. Um, cheaper live, um, you know, great department, great people. Um, but yeah, police work done different. Some of the laws are a little different.

• 44:27Speaker 05

  You know, the environment's different, right?

• 44:29Speaker 04

  Were you in Seattle?

• 44:30Speaker 05

  No, southwest Washington. Yeah, closer to Portland. So the whole environment's different.

• 44:36Speaker 04

  Was there like a big like mental shift from like working down in LA to like working up? I mean, just like, did your like combat mindset change in a way?

• 44:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm on a podcast, man, so I gotta watch what I say. See, we in Kring could talk about this, right? I said, what are we gonna talk about? Now, if we were sitting out at my place, I'd be telling you straight, you know, uh, huge mental shift, right? Because, you know, if you're working a known gang area, known narcotics area, there's, there's things that are justifiable by the law that you can do in certain areas. Now, I'm talking way back in the nineties. I don't know how it is now, so, so forgive me, but, um, you know, you've made multiple arrests at this location. You know, there's known drug dealers in the area. There's, you know, all of these things that you can articulate that can help you deal with bad guys, right?

• 45:25Speaker 05

  You don't, you don't have that now. You're in a, you're in a town of, where there's very few gangs, at least at the time.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  Drugs are everywhere, so, so those are, those are around, but, um, yeah, y- y- you have to adjust your, you have to slow down your roll and you have to calm down. Right. That's how I'd say it. And I, and I got told that. So.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 06

  Just a side question. When you were, when you went from Alaska to California and then to Washington, did you pursue your outdoor activities as a, you know, kind of release, relief from what you were doing? Did you have time to do that?

• 46:10Speaker 05

  Washington's great for, I mean, they got some good hunting there. Grouse, I've elk hunted there, deer hunted, all those things. I, I liked hunting grouse. That was fun. I mean, it wasn't Kodiak where when I think when I, when I got there is I was really young. So I didn't start hunting right away. But I, before I moved there, I'd lived for a short time in Idaho. So, you know, I started hunting with my dad when I could hold, he would tell me, when you're tall enough to hold on to the belt loop with your finger of my, my belt area on my jeans, you can come with me. So I was like, all right, Pop. So, so I finally got to that point. It didn't take long because I'm a pretty tall guy, right? So I'd hold on to the belt loop and, and roll with him. I had this old US Army canvas backpack.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  And, uh, and I'd, I'd have the lunches in there and a BB gun and, and be rolling around. And for years, the story about a BB gun, I thought I actually killed this chuckler one time with this BB gun. And I thought I'd heard my dad shoot too. I was pretty young and I got this thing with my BB gun. It's like 40 yards away or something. My dad's like, oh yeah, you smoked it. You did great. And for years I believed I made this crazy shot. But as I got older, I realized he shot that doggone thing. Let me think all these years I shot that chuckler. Yeah. I think staying involved in, in, in outdoor stuff. California is mostly quail. I deer hunted a little bit. A lot of bird hunting is just a little more accessible in time. You know, it's so busy down there.

• 47:37Speaker 06

  Did you, uh, did you ever come across roller pigeons?

• 47:40Speaker 05

  No.

• 47:41Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 47:42Speaker 05

  That's a new one.

• 47:43Speaker 06

  I just had to ask.

• 47:45Speaker 05

  I know a lot of animals too. I mean, I watch, I watch a lot of.

• 47:47Steven Rinella?

  It's like, uh, it's street pigeons, like, you know, dudes that are into street pigeons?

• 47:50Speaker 05

  Oh, right.

• 47:51Steven Rinella?

  But they train, yeah, it's this whole.

• 47:52Speaker 05

  I got you.

• 47:53Steven Rinella?

  We were introduced as like pigeon fanciers. Tyson, Mike Tyson.

• 47:56Speaker 05

  Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I didn't see, I saw a lot of pigeons in the city, but, uh, not, uh.

• 48:03Steven Rinella?

  These are dudes that keep pet pigeons.

• 48:04Speaker 05

  Yeah. Pigeons, chickens. You'd be on calls and in the inner city and chickens and.

• 48:09Steven Rinella?

  Oh, fighting chickens, fighting cocks?

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. Running all over the place.

• 48:15Speaker 05

  The other crazy thing about being down there, which was, I always thought this was odd. And some guys that are listening to this that work down there can relate, but when I get together with the LAPD Southeast guys or some of these guys, we have some fun or 77th Division. But they have these dogs, man. And I don't, I don't know a better term. So I hope this doesn't come off crazy, but like we just call them ghetto dogs, like inner city dogs. And they're just wild, but they know the city. Like, like I've literally watched a dog go up to a major street, look both ways and cross. Like they just, and they're out, they're all over the place.

• 48:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  It's wild. Or you'll see a homeless guy, which you know, obviously I feel, you know, I've got a heart for some of the homeless, but he cruising down with a shopping cart and about eight dogs behind him.

• 49:04Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 49:05Speaker 05

  But they're seasoned, they're seasoned vets, man. These dogs, I'm telling you. They, they just, they know the city. They know gunshots. I'm out. Like I'm, I'm going, I'm going. This is wild. Yeah, it's just wild. Different world, man. Different world.

• 49:21Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean and they'll get years and years of use out of

• 50:05Steven Rinella?

  a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today.

• 50:12Steven Rinella?

  Listen, we're all trying to save up for something. I got buddies saving up to buy their new house. I got people eyeing a new boat. I know buddies that are trying to switch out trucks and get an upgrade in their truck. Whatever, people are always saving up for stuff. In reality, though, we see that it can be hard to actually save money. But that's what's great about the One Pay app. It makes saving money easy. First, you earn 3% cash back on up to $150 in monthly spending. You choose categories, okay, like Walmart, gas, or dining, and then get rewarded when you spend in those categories. So you're rewarded for what you're already buying. And with high-yield savings, your money keeps growing.

• 50:54Steven Rinella?

  Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters. One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Cash back is earned as points. Go to onepay.com/rewards/terms for redemption options and additional details. I get sent all kinds of products and snacks, and the truth is, most of them come and go. Every once in a while, though, I find something I keep reaching for, and Wiley Wallaby is one of those things. I first tried it because someone just handed me a bag and said, "This isn't like any other kind of licorice you've had before." And they were right. Wiley Wallaby makes authentic Australian-style licorice that's incredibly soft and chewy.

• 51:38Steven Rinella?

  It's not like that weird, tough, waxy, cheap junk you get. And it doesn't have that artificial taste that turns a lot of people away from licorice in the first place. It's one of those products that's hard to explain until you've tasted it yourself. I keep some in my truck, I keep some in my fish shack, I keep some in my camper. They've got more than 10 flavors. And whether you like classic flavors or something a little different, there's probably one you'll end up keeping stocked around the house. Plus, it's made in the USA by a company that's been committed to quality and hometown values for over six decades. If you haven't tried Wiley Wallaby yet, pick yourself up a bag. Use code MEATEATER at shop.wileywallaby.com for free shipping, and you can try it yourself.

• 52:22Steven Rinella?

  I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

• 52:27Steven Rinella?

  So walk me through how you went from police work into the military? And then how'd you become a, how'd you become a reverend?

• 52:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's a wild one, man. I had to really, I had to soften up.

• 52:38Speaker 05

  Moving to Washington helped me, helped me kind of soften. And glory to the Lord, man. That's, I'll just be bold about that. I had to, I had to slow down, soften up, and it was good for me. Personally and family-wise.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  But towards the end of my career, I knew I wanted to be done. As I got close to 20, I wanted to be done. And politics and garbage that goes on at some of these agencies. And it's still happening. My heart, I hear it all the time from guys. It's unfortunate for these, these officers that are out there just grinding. You know, working holidays, facing the stuff they face. Especially the last, you know, four years, just the stuff they're having to deal with. But, um, yeah, a guy hands me a book and it's called A Table in Thy Presence, written by Kerry Cash. It's about a Marine.

• 53:27Steven Rinella?

  Tell me again the title, sorry?

• 53:28Speaker 05

  Uh, A Table in Thy Presence.

• 53:29Steven Rinella?

  A Table in Thy Presence?

• 53:31Speaker 05

  Right, it comes from a Psalm, right? And Navy chaplain assigned to the Marines first pushed into Iraq. And he just talks about his ministry to these, these military folks and the dangers they faced. And seeing some of the miracles that, that God did over there. And, uh, and we could talk a lot about some of, some of the stuff. I'm sure we'll get to that. But, um, it, it was amazing to me. And I was being pulled in that direction. I was in seminary, working on a graduate degree and just doing stuff in the church. And a lot of youth stuff. And, um, man, it was just, it was an amazing book. And, uh, and that, and he give it, he gives it to me. He says, hey, man, I know you're thinking about going into full-time ministry at some point.

• 54:15Speaker 05

  He goes, this might be a good fit with your background. You know, you kind of have this sort of, sort of tactical side. And again, many guys have done more than me and gotten more awards and all that. It's not about that. It just, his point was this might be a good fit in this, that environment. And of course, it was the height of Iraq, a lot of stuff was going on and. And I thought, yeah, I don't know, maybe, maybe so. Am I being called there? Right? Like, do I have this? This internal burning desire to go serve in that environment? Well, I'm gonna be separated from my family, right? Five kids, I'll be separated.

• 54:49Speaker 05

  Wife won't be there. At that point, initially, they were like eighteen months with the army deployment with the two weeks R and R. Then I went to twelve with two weeks. Then it went to twelve, three at the Mo platform, nine in theater with no R and R. So that was kind of the cycle. So you've gotta be, you know, mentally tough. Again, it's not, it's not me. It's, it's, I think the Lord preparing you, preparing your family, preparing your wife and kids for that separation. And, and, and so I, I took it to her, and I don't know the timeframe, a month or so after I read the book. I say, what do you think about this? As we're, you know, getting close here.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  And, and she said, no, no way. Like, you're gonna be gone.

• 55:37Speaker 05

  And I'm like, well, just, you know, pray about it and see. And so then about two weeks later, I remember coming home, my motor, and we rode motorcycles year round up there. Police, police motors in the rain and the whole deal. And I'd usually go up and get warm, take a bath or something, you know, to heat up. And, and I went upstairs in the bathroom, this is a true story, and she's up there in tears. And I'm like, what's going on? You guys are, you give me emotional.

• 56:11Speaker 05

  And she said this. She said, hey, if God wants you in a, a downrange environment or wherever he's calling you to, he's got us here and we stand behind you and I, I support it. And then that shocked me. You know, kind of rocked.

• 56:30Speaker 05

  Kind of rocked my world a little bit. And, yeah. Then,

• 56:37Speaker 05

  They didn't make it easy. You know, you've got to have all this stuff to go in as a chaplain, right, to serve in that way. You've got to be endorsed by a Department of Defense endorsing body. You've got to have so much ministry experience. You've got to be ordained. You've got to have your MDiv. You've got to, you know, pass your secret clearances. You've got to be physically fit. Your medical stuff, you know, all of those things. And then you got to get through Basic Officer Leader Course, which is at Jackson, South Carolina. So you've got a lot of that going on. So I remember going to MEPS and I'd had a back surgery. I had hurt my back doing some jujitsu stuff. And, yeah. And I was trying to shrimp this

• 57:21Speaker 05

  guy off of me and blew a disc. So, because I was tired of him pounding on me. And anyway, blew the disc out. That's a whole nother story. But I had to get a waiver. So I remember going to MEPS. I'm like the old guy in there, right? Like, most chaplains are a little older because you got to go through all this schooling. You got to do all these things. But I'm the older guy in MEPS. I'm underwear. Won't run around in MEPS with all these young 18, 19 year old guys doing all this stuff, you know, duck walk and all these different things. And I get to the end and everything went well. And he goes, he goes, hey, you got to get a waiver. I can't pass you. And I'm like, I remember looking at this guy. Super

• 58:04Speaker 05

  nice guy. I think he was about 99 years old, but super nice guy. And, and he goes, I'm like, what? And I said, hey, man, I said, you don't understand, sir. I said, God's called me to do this. I need to. And he kind of looked puzzled. And I said, well, I don't, you know, you got to get a waiver. So eventually I got the waiver and then deployed pretty quick after that. Went to a Cav squadron, Cavalry Unit. A lot of cool tradition in the Cav. And I was over there and the funny story, uh, it's not funny, but cool part of the story is I went over there. And my son in the meantime had joined right out of high school.

• 58:46Speaker 05

  And he was also in the same Cav. He was in a Charlie troop and um, we're both in Baghdad together. For, for that whole time. So that was a little, that was a little wild. Um.

• 58:59Speaker 04

  But how together?

• 59:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. Uh, same squadron. Um, he was housed a little ways away from me, not far. I was on Camp Liberty. Um, and he was down more in the south, kind of the victory complex. The, the whole thing's victory complex, but. And I don't know if Chili's been over there, but um, he was, i- i- if I took a little, uh. I, I don't wanna, I gotta be careful how I say some of these terms here on, on a podcast, but they give us these little vehicles to drive, right? What the locals would drive. You know what I'm talking about?

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  And uh, so we called him, we had a certain name for him, but uh. It would take me maybe thirty minutes to get over there, not too long to get to where he was. Um, so yeah, that was, that was wild.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  Was it, was it easy like, I'm sure it wasn't, it's probably a rhetorical question, but like separating, you know, being a father. In a combat environment, like having your son like there, like and knowing, probably being pretty well informed about like what's going on, like what your son's going through and like versus like what you're going through, like how was that? Like experience?

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, it was a, it was different because you know, so, so I was, so it's, the, the, we use the term squadron in the Cav, right? So, um, in an infantry, it'd be a battalion.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:00:19Speaker 05

  And so you're the only chaplain though, for that whole battalion or squadron. So. On that deployment, we had about six hundred and something soldiers. We weren't totally organic to, uh. We weren't all Cav. We had a group from Nebraska that helped supplement us and some other folks. So. You're the only chaplain for six hundred folks. But you know, you gotta care for all of them, right? That, that's the sheep that got us, said, hey, here's the deal, Shane. I got this. This ain't about you. It's not your deal. Uh, which I had to learn the hard way after we, we lost a couple of guys right away, but um, you know, this is about my plan. You just go. Take care of them. You just go love on them. Take care of your staff, your commander.

• 1:01:05Speaker 05

  You know, advise them. Do your religious area analysis on, on, you know, what, what, uh, is it Sunni, is it Shia? You work a little bit with the S2 on some of that stuff. How do we deal with Korans?

• 1:01:18Speaker 05

  Where's the Muslim burial ground? You know, you kind of can work through that, that part of it. Advising the commander on the moral and ethical ramifications for decisions he's gonna make or she's gonna make in that, in, in your, in your AO, right? So you have that responsibility, but you also have a three-pong responsibility, which is honor the dead, care for the wounded, and nurture the living. So you've got that.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  And earn the trust, right? You got 600 soldiers. The worst, the worst thing I can hear when I go to, when I would go back then, when I was just a first lieutenant or captain is to get to a unit and you go, hey, who is, you know, I'm the new chaplain. Who was your chaplain before? They go, I don't know. Okay, that's the wrong answer. Or, I don't really see him. Or her. Wrong answer, right? So that means you don't, as a chaplain, and I was probably, because of my, probably my background and just, just the different way I, I thought it, the best way to operate was be with them. Right? Take the similar risks, be with them. Get your butt out of your office. Don't need to read books all day, right?

• 1:02:27Speaker 05

  I know you got Cubs and Bubs and update briefs and counseling's and sometimes memorials and caring for the wounded. You got all that. But you, you need to be out with the soldiers. And, uh, that, that's the place to be. And I, I was willing to take a, take some ass chewings to, to do that. Cause you know, they lose you and I mean, you're a great target, right? It's a great target for the enemy to take out the chaplain. He's the, kind of the spiritual, even though it's not you necessarily leading, it's, it's God doing the work, but they see you as the spiritual leader and you, you don't have a gun, right? So you're going on all these missions. You got an assistant, it's an actual MOS that goes with you.

• 1:03:11Speaker 05

  Religious affairs specialist, they call them now. Back then it was chaplain assistant. So they're an enlisted person that's, that's armed that stays with you, but you know, you've, uh, you got a cross on your uniform. You've got a, no gun. You got all the gear. You're a soldier, right? You're a soldier first, but. That's a, that's a good target. Take, take him out.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:03:33Speaker 05

  You know, especially.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  Where, where did that come from? Where's the decision to not be armed?

• 1:03:38Speaker 05

  Geneva Convention thing. And it's been around a long time. I think Vietnam was, I think the last, and I could be wrong here, but I think the last war where they, they gave, uh, you know, medics and chaplains, uh, guns. So, yeah, no, no weapon. So, but that's where you're in the trust, right? To be, be with the, be with your folks because if they don't know you and they don't trust you, they're not gonna come walk into your office. And, and, and tell you what's bugging them or get the counts in the need or, hey, you know, back home, my wife's leaving me because I've been gone and she's cheating on so on, so and so, or, um, I'm messing around with this person or, you know, whatever's going on in their life, or I got suicidal ideations or,

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  you know, any of those things. Um, you gotta earn the trust, man. And the only way to do that is to get down in the trenches with them. And so.

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's pretty common. You know, in the eight years I spent, like, I don't, I don't remember a single chaplain's name. And, but they would show up, like, they would show up, like, when we had, like, suicides and, like, when we were in country and, like, you know, injuries. And then they treated it like a, like a check in the box. Like, it was more like, hey, you know, your commander asked me to come down here and talk to you guys. It's just like, you are the last person I want to talk to. Like, and just because I don't know you.

• 1:04:55Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  And I just find that like, so like my, I wouldn't say my experience with chaplains have, have been negative, but I just, it was, I didn't know anything.

• 1:05:04Speaker 05

  Right, or nonexistent, right? And that's the, and, and we, listen, we got many, many good ones out there, many great ones.

• 1:05:09Speaker 04

  Oh, totally.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  Um, but, you know, to me, you, you wanna earn your, your bones or your stripes or whatever you want to call it, then you need to get out of your office and get out on missions with them. And spend time with them. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's, even if, even if, you know, sometimes the commander would be like, and I had some great commanders. Uh, one of them's, you know, still in as a two-star now and just an awesome individual. He was an O5 at the time. And, uh, you know, I'd take a, I'd take a whooping from it from time to time, especially if you got, if I got stuck in Mamma Dio or, you know, Fallujah or something because of red air, you know, and he's like, hey, you need to get back here. I'm like, I'm stuck. Yeah, I can't, can't,

• 1:05:52Speaker 05

  the convoy ain't rolling, but, um, that, that's where you earn your trust. And then, then all of a sudden, you're in your offices, you keep going, uh, as you're going on your, in your, in your tour, and you, you get there in the morning and, and you, you didn't sleep much. I mean, I'd be up till midnight one and then you're up at four or whatever, but, um, go to your, your update briefs and, you know, go to your, your sinks and stuff like that. Then you get to your office and there's eight people lined up outside your door.

• 1:06:21Speaker 05

  You know, that's when you know, okay, it's, it's starting to work. The trust is coming, right?

• 1:06:25Steven Rinella?

  What would those eight people be there for?

• 1:06:27Speaker 05

  Oh, a variety of things. Some suicidal ideation, some, my girlfriend's breaking up with me, some divorce, some grandpa's sick, mom's sick. You know, the similar things that you'd see here, but it just gets heightened, gets intense, uh, intensified being over there. Um, sometimes it could be they'd lost, you know, a friend, uh, you had a KIA and they want to work through that. Um, we have special things we do for that, similar to what we do up here, which are like a Thames event or traumatic event management event, where we ask certain questions, give everybody a chance to kind of talk through what they saw or how they feel. It's not, I don't run them like a big, warm, fuzzy kumbaya thing,

• 1:07:08Speaker 05

  but it's a good time to sit down and just let some stuff out. You don't have to talk if you don't want to. We used to call them critical incident debriefs. Um, so yeah, it could be a variety of, variety of things. Um, chain of command issues, you know, wha- what, whatever. I, I dealt with so many, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of counseling sessions on, on, on both deployments. Um, but, uh, my first one, that, that one had, that one had a lot, a lot of stress, you know?

• 1:07:38Steven Rinella?

  Did you go into that work knowing that, that, or I guess not knowing, but had it already, was it already common knowledge at that time that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were going to spin off this generation of, of soldiers with like extraordinarily high suicide rates?

• 1:08:01Steven Rinella?

  Was that, was that, has that always been true of war?

• 1:08:05Speaker 05

  Uh, I think it's gotten worse.

• 1:08:10Speaker 05

  You know, there, there was a lot when I was, when I was in, on my first, first deployment and then when I went on active duty up at Joint Base Lewis McCord.

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  Similar, similar, it was, seemed to kind of continue to get increased. I mean, we were at war a long time.

• 1:08:24Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:25Speaker 05

  You know? And I think that contributed to it a hundred percent.

• 1:08:29Steven Rinella?

  Like what, what, what do you feel is, like, what is going on?

• 1:08:34Speaker 05

  Oh, man. Uh, yeah, again, uh, you know, Chili and I could have this conversation and, and, and all of us off, off mic here, but

• 1:08:45Speaker 05

  I, I think there is some generational things that could be going on. I, I know we do seem to have quite a few that are currently happening. Again, I'm just speaking them up from my own personal opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of the army at all here, but

• 1:08:59Speaker 05

  from what I see in my lane, we, we do get, um, quite a few that are not related to combat experience. Um, and that's a puzzling factor. Is it, is it contributing factors that they had prior to joining the military? Is it just the inability with some of the newer generation to cope with stress and cope with embracing the suck factors?

• 1:09:22Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:23Speaker 05

  Um, you know, is it, is it some of that? And I, I don't think we've really put our finger on it.

• 1:09:30Speaker 05

  The definitely, uh, you know, a lot of the combat related stuff, because you think about this, man, here, here's, here's the way to look at it. So I remember coming home. Uh, on, I was on leave for my first, I think it was my first one. And I was at a Starbucks. And

• 1:09:51Steven Rinella?

  In the US?

• 1:09:52Speaker 05

  In the US.

• 1:09:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 05

  So I'm home for like two weeks. I go into Starbucks and I had just seen, you know, all this different, all this, all these, all this stuff. Lost a couple of guys and, and, uh, wounded, you know, kids eating trash, just different environments, third world stuff. Well, you're in a Starbucks and the lady in front of me is blocking the line and complaining about her caramel on her latte, right? And you're kind of going, and, and, and Chili, I'm sure could, you're kind of thinking in your mind, okay. Is this, this is really happening?

• 1:10:23Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just came and watched all this stuff and here we are in America spoiled. Get whatever we want. We got menus for everything. You can choose whatever you want. Lot of stuff's free depending on the programs and, you know. And I just came from a place where they're fighting on the street to dig out of a trash pile on the side of the road. And they're trying to kill each other. And, you know, there's a war going on and you're complaining that you want more caramel in your latte.

• 1:10:52Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:53Speaker 05

  And I just remember that hit me weird like, like I'm like. Okay, do I, does my flesh take over and the chapel go dark here and snatch this lady up and move her out of line? Or do I just, you know, so I took some deep breaths and, and, uh. Or I went to get a haircut, same time, same time I was home and, and the lady goes, oh, are you in the military? Yeah, I was just home for a couple of weeks. So I didn't know there was, I didn't know we were still fighting over there. Right?

• 1:11:21Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:22Speaker 05

  So you kind of go to a 10, like, really? Well, then you come home. So let's say you take the average young, young guy, right? The young enlisted dude, they make, they make the military work. The enlisted hundred percent. I'll say that right off the top and they deserve a lot more than what they get, awards wise and everything else. These youngsters, let's take guard or reserve. Let's take guard. Guards, all combat oriented units, right? They supplement the active force. Fifty one percent of the component in the, in the army at least is guard and reserve. So they, they're working at McDonald's, let's say. They join the guard. They go to an infantry unit or a cav unit. Now he's on a 50 cal. He's rolling in an MRAP down some

• 1:12:05Speaker 05

  highway in Iraq or Afghanistan. He does his job. I don't know. Maybe he smokes, maybe he's got to smoke some bag. I, I don't know. But he's, he's over there. He's embracing the suck. He's a part of it. He's doing his part. He's serving his country. And he comes back and now he's back at McDonald's.

• 1:12:19Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:19Speaker 05

  Like a month after he gets home. And someone comes in and is complaining about, you need to make burgers faster. I'm not saying he doesn't need to do that.

• 1:12:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30Speaker 05

  But he just got out of a, he was just operating a 50 for freaking, you know, nine months or whatever. And that's the hard part. It's that reintegration, you know?

• 1:12:41Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of

• 1:13:25Steven Rinella?

  a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. You need credit to buy, well, pretty much any big thing. So how do you get started? Easy. The One Pay Builder Card. It's simple and smart. One Pay is the banking app trusted by millions of Americans, and the One Pay Builder Card is an easy way to build credit. Just use it to make everyday purchases, build your credit history, and then you can work up to the big milestones, buying a new car, or a new house, or hell, maybe something I'm always thinking about, which is another boat. Those moments start with small, consistent

• 1:14:03Steven Rinella?

  steps with the One Pay Builder Card. Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters. One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank.

• 1:14:18Speaker 07

  Services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through One Pay at onepay.com/podcast.

• 1:14:29Steven Rinella?

  I get sent all kinds of products and snacks and the truth is, most of them come and go. Every once in a while, though, I find something I keep reaching for and Wiley Wallaby is one of those things. I first tried it because someone just handed me a bag and said, this isn't like any other kind of licorice you've had before. And they were right. Wiley Wallaby makes authentic Australian style licorice. That's incredibly soft and chewy. It's not like that weird, tough, waxy, cheap junk you get. And it doesn't have that artificial taste that turns a lot of people away from licorice in the first place. It's one of those products that's hard to explain until you've tasted it yourself. I keep some in my truck. I keep some in my fish shack. I keep some in my camper. They've got more than 10 flavors and whether you like classic flavors or something a little different,

• 1:15:13Steven Rinella?

  there's probably one you'll end up keeping stocked around the house. Plus, it's made in the USA by a company that's been committed to quality and hometown values for over six decades. If you haven't tried Wiley Wallaby yet, pick yourself up a bag. Use code MEATEATER at shop.wileywallaby.com for free shipping and you can try it yourself. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  I think like to, for your question earlier, like, why does that happen? Like, again, personally, from like what I've noticed in like suicide rates, I think it's just like lack of purpose. You go from such a high to such a low and like in such a dramatic way. Like, I mean, similarly, like, it's like, uh, when I got back, like, we flew out of Afghanistan. We're in Kuwait for a week and a half, two weeks almost. And Kuwait is still, I don't, I don't know if they considered it a combat environment, but it was like a, it was like a hot, there was hostiles around there. But like they had that base on, in Kuwait, I think it was, uh, I can't, I want Aliyah Sharif, if that sounds familiar.

• 1:16:24Speaker 04

  I don't know. I can't remember what the base is called. Um, but there was like a. There was a swimming pool there and then there was um there is like a Starbucks but it wasn't like a Starbucks and like you had all these army guys like rolling around just like have is like completely oblivious and then you fly out and then you know it's nighttime and you wake up and you're in Cherry Point, North Carolina and you're rolling through the gates and you're like you just you're back in what we call garrison and then you're like oh it's so good to be home and then like you go to a cookout or to a McDonald's and then some heifers just like bitching about her her burger and you're just like

• 1:17:04Speaker 04

  what is going on right now and like it just makes it makes you makes you like irritable and then like I think that stems into like you just you have a lack of one responsibility you don't feel like you matter and like when a lot of guys get out um and maybe this isn't directly related to combat I think a lot of people get this way from just doing their day to day job stateside as well um but yeah you just don't have a

• 1:17:33Speaker 04

  like a like a calling like you're not doing what you're what you kind of like initially may have wanted to do

• 1:17:40Speaker 05

  Yo, I got it.

• 1:17:41Speaker 04

  And then and that just like you know just a mental down spiral.

• 1:17:46Speaker 07

  Do you feel like they give you a heads up as to this because it's not like this is something new, right?

• 1:17:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:17:52Speaker 07

  I mean they wrote songs about it in the 60s.

• 1:17:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, um.

• 1:17:56Speaker 07

  Like did they give you a heads up at all like be prepared?

• 1:17:59Speaker 04

  They they kind of tell you about like the culture shock and like I wouldn't say it's like a formal setting like it's like if you have your your old timers and like your your battle tested dudes that have did a few pumps like they kind of like they'll they'll like tell you about it and like my brother uh he was deployed with a unit called third battalion shit Marines sang in Afghanistan in 2010, 2011 and they got I think they get they got messed up like this unit did like they lost a lot of people and so but when I joined I've I had a lot of his friends like kind of um like mentor me and when I told a few of them like hey like I'm doing a pump

• 1:18:41Speaker 04

  they're like hey like everything's gonna be fine like they coached you and like and then one guy I remember I won't say his name because I know he listens to the show and he doesn't want to be spotlighted but uh he's just like listen man it's gonna be It's gonna be like really hard, like when you get back. Like you're gonna be around a lot of people that like don't understand. And they like, they're gonna ask questions and no matter what you tell them, no matter how long you spend telling them that like they're just not gonna, they're not gonna get it. And he's like, you just gotta like roll with it. And so like i- i- in a way, yeah, people will tell you. But not the, not the, not the army or the Marines themselves.

• 1:19:22Speaker 04

  Like, yeah, like they, they, they treat it as, I mean, from what I noticed, like. They'll, they'll like, when you, when you get brought back, you have to do like a bunch of debriefing. So like before we could like, when we got back stateside, before we could go home, we had to go through like classes. And like we, there's like mental tests and like computer tests to make sure like you don't have any TBIs. You, I think we ended up talking to a CHAPS. Traumatic brain injuries. I got it. So like you took a test, we took a test before we left. Um, and then like when we got back, we took the exact same test and they like compared results. And just to see if we were like copacetic and, and everything was kosher. Um, so we did that, um, we talked to a CHAPS. A CHAPS?

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  CHAPS, yeah, we always call them CHAPS. Not to be mistaken for. Yeah. Leather CHAPS. Not leather CHAPS, yeah, uh, but, uh, but yeah, we like, and then they, we would, you know, there was counselors and stuff too and. But like, it was more like, how are you doing? Good, like, do you feel like you wanna? Uh, like they kinda, I feel like the military deals in extremes a lot, um, do you feel like you need, you wanna kill somebody? I'm like, no. And like, so they kinda prepare you that way. Get that right out of the way. Yeah, they're just like. Like you're gonna say yes. They're like, yeah, like, do you feel like you have PTSD? And I'm like, I don't know, I've never done this before, like, I don't know what that means and, or what that looks like for myself.

• 1:20:50Speaker 04

  And so they, they kinda do it, but it's more of like, uh.

• 1:20:56Speaker 04

  Military has to do their due diligence so we don't get into trouble, kind of thing. And I, and like that's

• 1:21:00Speaker 05

  That's what it felt like.

• 1:21:01Speaker 04

  That's what it felt like. I'm not saying that's what they're doing. I'm just saying like that's kind of how it, how it felt.

• 1:21:05Speaker 05

  I mean, they'll, you know, we do D-mob stuff in classes like, like Chili's talking about and, and a lot of that stuff. You'll check out medically and do, do a bunch of those things, but I don't, I don't think that there's still the shock factor. You haven't paid bills, right? You haven't driven a regular car or your car. I mean, if you were driving something, it was an armored vehicle or a, or one of those other vehicles we were talking about earlier. Or you've been flying around in a helicopter. And now all of a sudden you're back and you know, over, over there, you don't want to be stuck in traffic, right? You're sitting duck. There's all these different things or you're driving super fast and swerving on some roads and, you know, making sure they're, they're not. They used to throw these things off the bridges. I can't remember if they're arcade threes or something, these, these hand grenades.

• 1:21:51Speaker 05

  Um, or IED stuff. So you, you know, you're staying in certain sides of the lane. There are all those things and now you're on the freeway. And you're sitting in traffic. And you're like trying to, you know, just little, little things like that, you know, just trying to digest.

• 1:22:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Your com- your combat mindset does not go away like as soon as your back's inside. Like you're looking at everything as like a, a threat.

• 1:22:10Speaker 05

  Right. And it, it doesn't matter what your MOS was. It just, if you were out there on missions and you were doing stuff. It, uh, you know, e- even, even from a childman perspective, it's, it's difficult getting back and as a dad, right? You, you haven't disciplined the kids. The wife, the wife has kind of set that all up and got a routine. And now you're coming into that routine and you're kind of blowing it up now, right? You're kind of the new guy in the house and you don't know what they've been through the whole time you've been gone. And sometimes then you find out later, which is often upsetting about maybe they cried at night, worried about you or this, but the wife kept that from you. Because you didn't need that when you were down range. There's all those little nuances, intimacy, right?

• 1:22:53Speaker 05

  You haven't been intimate for a year. So you've got to earn all these things. You've got to work your way back into this. And, and that reintegration process can be, can be difficult. So, so that's a contributing factor for sure. Um, with some of the stuff and then, and then it's hard, right? It's hard losing your, your friends. And, and, and your life changes. I think there's something. I'll say it like this. I think there's something that happens when you go to a combat zone regardless of whether you were a SEAL or an SF or infantry or whatever, whatever your, your job was, your unit was. There's something that is taken away from you.

• 1:23:34Speaker 05

  And I'm sure there's probably some guys that might disagree with me, but there is something that changes in you. And then I think you start to spend your time trying to get that back. And I don't know if that's a sense of innocence. Um, you know, you just, the world is different, right? And then you become comfortable over there. You've learned how to kind of survive and you're comfortable and you're, you're in that environment, it stinks, especially Afghanistan. I was in Kabul and it just, it smelled, the air is real bad, not good for you. That's why guys are getting all this burn pit stuff. Both, both, both, both countries, Iraq as well, but little kids are, you're driving by and they're, they're doing this. They don't want you there. They're throwing rocks at the,

• 1:24:16Speaker 05

  at the, you know, a big hunk of concrete hitting a armored vehicle, sounds like, you know, it's a problem.

• 1:24:25Speaker 05

  You know, different things like that. And, and now all of a sudden you're, you're back and you watch just the two-year-olds. You know, no diaper, no nothing, eating old rotten food out of the street.

• 1:24:39Speaker 05

  And that is, it's so, there's, I don't know, there's just something that, uh, you know, I think you, I think you lose and that you're kind of constantly trying to get that back. Something changes in you. And, and I think the other thing that happens a lot with families is in particular, married couples or, or families is you get back and you, you think you're the same, right? You're the same dude. You're, you're, you're happy to be home. You're thankful. You're blessed. You're all those things. And then maybe someone in your family or, or a relative or a friend says, man, you've changed.

• 1:25:14Speaker 05

  Well, that's not what you want to hear, right? Hmm. So it kind of hits you in the gut like, wait a second. What do you mean I've changed? What do you mean by that? Hmm. And so then that starts a cycle. So there's a lot, I think, a lot of factors. Um, that's why I think it's good. I mean, you got to talk, you got to get outside. You've got to do those things. Um, and, uh, you know, you know, I wouldn't have said this to you twenty some years ago. You know, I was a more of a hardened, you know, street cop from who who learned how to do that job in, you know, in a bad place, in a bad time. And I wouldn't have said, you don't need, uh, counseling, uh, whatever. Go to this, sure. I don't want to talk. I don't want to go there and hold hands and all this stuff.

• 1:26:00Speaker 05

  But I'll tell you what, man, I get a lot of those dudes coming through the door. The the toughest guys from, and I'll, I'm telling you, I won't name names, but I mean, guys have been through CQB shootings within a few months of coming up there. What's that mean? You know, close quarter. Okay. Contact shot type stuff. Yeah. Um, SWAT callouts where they've been shot. I had a guy upshot four times. I mean, all kinds of guys in some tough stuff. Um, and, uh, and they they kind of have that wall up. I I get it. I was that way that, you know, coming in and they don't know what we're going to talk about. They don't know who I am. They're trying to sniff it out. I told Corinne, for lack of a better term, just talking straight here, it's kind of like a couple of pit bulls sort of sniffing each other's butts, trying to figure out who's dominant, who's not. Uh huh.

• 1:26:45Speaker 05

  You know, that whole thing goes on. But then they realize, man, look, we're, we're just here to love you, man. We're, we're here to give you something for your toolbox. We're going to give you an injection of some, some, some biblical stuff. You're going to get that. I'm not going to proselyze to you. I'm not going to beat you over the head with it, just like we don't do in the army. I'm not, we're not doing that. We're going to give you something that that that means more than just some of the other frivolous stuff that that's out there in the world and in life, right? We're, we're going to, that's what, that's what we're going to do. And we're going to dig in whenever you're ready. And I'm telling you, a hundred percent of the time by Saturday, Sunday, you know, tears are shed, guys are opening up, guys are talking.

• 1:27:26Speaker 05

  But you got to have the right mix of people there. You got to have, everybody there's got to have some legit, put in their work, right? Hmm. So there's that respect level. Um, we, we, we used to call it putting in work, but, um, and earning their trust and making sure it's a safe place to talk. Like the other guys want to.

• 1:27:44Steven Rinella?

  You know, can you hold, can you hold that thought a minute?

• 1:27:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, hold it.

• 1:27:46Steven Rinella?

  There's something I wanted to ask.

• 1:27:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, go.

• 1:27:48Steven Rinella?

  Before your specific work. There's something I'm not clear on.

• 1:27:51Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:27:55Steven Rinella?

  When I was laying, we were talking about suicide.

• 1:27:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:58Steven Rinella?

  People having troubles reintegrating. I know just from being friends with you that, and you've mentioned it, you do a lot of work with police as well. Know the first responders.

• 1:28:08Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:28:08Steven Rinella?

  Give me the, give me the version that is happening with cops. Who do go home every night. Or they go home every few nights, whatever, like, what is that, what is that version? Cause I remember a buddy of mine, not even a cop, a buddy of mine, Greg, who's a firefighter. He told me. A firefighter has a greater chance of dying by suicide than he has of dying in a fire.

• 1:28:33Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:28:35Steven Rinella?

  I also said to Greg one time, kind of a dumb like question, I'm sure he hates hearing. I said, how many dead people have you dealt with? He said, what do you mean? I said, like, how many, how many human bodies have you interacted with? He goes, hundreds. Right? You have to, like, there has to be a connection there, right? But from your perspective, like, it's not that you're reintegrating from another country. What is the reality that, from your, from your work? What is the reality that these guys that are in American society? Like, what becomes so hard for them?

• 1:29:11Speaker 05

  I think it's the trauma exposure.

• 1:29:12Steven Rinella?

  You do.

• 1:29:13Speaker 05

  Hundred percent.

• 1:29:14Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:29:14Speaker 05

  And it's the having to compartmentalize that stuff. And then I think as you get older, I actually think as you get older, it hits you harder. And that's just more personal experience. Your mortality comes into the sight pick quicker. Right? Starting to get older, you've, you've seen all this stuff. Maybe you've been able to block it out, you just keep rolling, high op tempo, block it out, next call, next call, next call. Baby not breathing, okay. Had to deal with that. The baby didn't make it. Okay. You know, besides the fact that, like, you know, you, you gave it mouth to mouth. Then you go to a fatal crash, just an accident, but kid gets run over. And you're investigating that. Then you go to a shooting, okay, drug ripoff, okay, I can kind of, I can kind of compartmentalize that. Shouldn't have been messing with dope, right?

• 1:29:57Speaker 05

  But you compartmentalize and go to the next one, the next one, the next one. And it just stacks up. I like to use the bookshelf example, right? You take it, you put the book on the shelf behind you. You just keep doing that over the years. And you're rolling, career's great, everything's cool, family's cool. And then all of a sudden, the bookshelf falls over. Yeah, where are you gonna put all that stuff? And it's all coming, kinda coming, coming down on you. You start thinking about things. You got maybe a little more time as you get older. You know, you're having kids and grandkids, whatever. And, and that, some of that stuff starts piling up on you. And, uh, I think that, that plays a role as well. And, and, and then those questions, maybe it's a little guilt and shame, maybe it's,

• 1:30:40Speaker 05

  "Man, I wish I could've done more. Why didn't I do more?" Or "Why is everybody killing each other?" You know, these kinda things start, start coming up. And law enforcement, they're, they lose folks too.

• 1:30:53Speaker 05

  I remember a young deputy getting, getting killed, uh, when I, early on, when I was down working Lennox and we rolled, leapfrog, tried to get over there, he was working out of Firestone Station and, and, uh, got shot up good and and I was just in, in, uh, patrol school with him. Good guy, great guy, you know, and it, it happened. It doesn't happen every single day necessarily where I was working, but it did happen enough to where it bothers you, you know? And, uh, I just think dealing with all that trauma, not having outlets and coping, healthy coping mechanisms, such as the outdoors, such as, uh, you know, talking to people and talking to someone. Um, I think spiritual fitness, spiritual resilience is huge. And, and I, I put it this way, Steve, I, I think this is important.

• 1:31:39Speaker 05

  You know, where do we, where do we, think about a carabiner, right? You guys probably use carabiners. You, you, everybody's probably used one at some point in their life. Where's that, in order for that thing to work, right, you gotta screw it down, you gotta hook it to something stable, something you trust.

• 1:31:54Speaker 05

  So if we use that term and, and, and we, we say, okay, where's our hope? If our hope is the carabiner, what is it connected to?

• 1:32:03Speaker 05

  If it's to the world, it's gonna hose you. It's gonna screw you. If it's to yourself, you're gonna fail yourself. If it's to other person, usually they're gonna fail you at some point too. But if you've got some spiritual fitness, my personal opinion, if I hook that thing to the Lord and I, I, I study, I may not always understand why he does what he does. I may not always understand the,

• 1:32:25Speaker 05

  the reasons or the timing or whatever. Uh, you know, and I'm not, I'm not here to, to preach. I'm just sharing this with you from my own personal experience.

• 1:32:32Steven Rinella?

  You were invited here to talk about your world, man.

• 1:32:35Speaker 05

  I'd rather, I would rather hook that to have my hope hooked to something like that.

• 1:32:41Speaker 05

  The one and only do that can, that can truly help me. And in the end, when I, when I'm not taking none of this stuff with me, nothing's going with me. Right? Nothing. Am I gonna roll the dice with eternity or am I gonna try to spend my time in my life on things that have eternal value? Things that are kingdom oriented to make a difference, be a difference maker in somebody else's life on behalf of the kingdom. Cause I'm a sinner and jacked up just like the rest, right? We're still trying to help and love each other and get, get through stuff. And so, so that's the question, the challenge I always ask my, where's my hope hooked to? Is Shane trying to run his program and trying to control his life in every aspect? Sure, there's days where I do that. And then I realize, okay, this, this whole thing ain't up to me.

• 1:33:26Speaker 05

  But it's that faith. It's that, it's that spiritual fitness. And that's why it's even was taught even in the military is, is some of the resiliency skills is there's a value to that spiritual fitness or spiritual resiliency, helping you overcome the challenges that you're gonna face in your life.

• 1:33:43Speaker 05

  So doesn't necessarily even have to be, you know, I'm gonna tell you what I think is, is a, is a good way. And what I believe, but if it's not, and it's a different, different faith group or, but you've got that spiritual resiliency, I, I think it matters. You know, I, I think it does. It, it, it can help you come, you know, get rid of this bookshelf piling up. And having that spiritual strength, I think is is a big deal.

• 1:34:09Steven Rinella?

  When you when you host a group of individuals, you're usually hosting a group of individuals who know each other. Is that true?

• 1:34:17Speaker 05

  Usually, not in all cases. I'd say the majority of the time they know each other or of each other.

• 1:34:22Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:34:24Steven Rinella?

  And.

• 1:34:24Speaker 05

  Sometimes with vets, it doesn't necessarily work that way, but um, you know, depending on what they're involved with, we might have a team of vets come out that were all involved in some major stuff in Afghanistan or Iraq and and then they'll know.

• 1:34:37Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I I don't want to like violate what happens.

• 1:34:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:42Steven Rinella?

  It's privately, you know, up the road from my house when you're doing your work, but like

• 1:34:48Steven Rinella?

  a group of people come.

• 1:34:49Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:50Steven Rinella?

  And they're they're using tho- those probably using those coping mechanisms that you're talking about, meaning the coping mechanism might be like the bookshelf behind you. You know, they're they're.

• 1:35:01Speaker 05

  Or alcohol, right?

• 1:35:02Steven Rinella?

  Doing that or okay.

• 1:35:04Speaker 05

  Right? Alcohol or substance abuse or sex addictions or affairs or wherever they're getting their adrenaline from.

• 1:35:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. There's got to be more like maybe at first you'd be like, well, let's cook some burgers and we'll shoot some bows. But I mean, how how do you even?

• 1:35:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:22Steven Rinella?

  How does the conversation even get started?

• 1:35:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:24Steven Rinella?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:35:26Speaker 05

  So the way I do it is I've got people I can trust in various agencies in various regions. Uh, for example, dudes that I know are legit that have been through the storms. Um, you know, put in their work that people respect.

• 1:35:45Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:35:45Speaker 05

  That are equally yoked with the mission. Makes sense?

• 1:35:49Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:35:49Speaker 05

  Okay, so equally yoked, they're on board, right? They're on board with our mission. They understand it and they have access to some of these agencies more so than I do because I'm up here.

• 1:35:58Steven Rinella?

  Oh, when you say they're yoked with the mission, y- your mission?

• 1:36:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:36:01Steven Rinella?

  Your mission of helping guys.

• 1:36:02Speaker 05

  Right, being equally yoked, right? So it uh, it's a kind of a theological term, right? When you got two oxen, if they're not equally yoked, they're not gonna be able to plow. So everybody's equally yoked. And they're recruiting. People to come up, different struggles they they've heard about or know about. So they're hitting them kind of off the side. No one's getting spotlighted. No one's getting, this is a very like in the trenches program. We don't care. We we're not looking at, okay, we need 200 people to come through this season. We have a steady take. We do small intimate groups. So we can really make the most maximum impact in the time they're here.

• 1:36:37Speaker 05

  So the dynamic when they arrive, so they kind of have a little rough idea, but I'd say most of the time they don't really know. How it's gonna go. You gotta earn their trust and that starts the moment they get off the plane, right? You know, my job and they sometimes they don't realize I'm doing this, but my job is to size them up and they're they're gonna size me up to figure out, okay, body language. What do they say? What do they wear? And what, you know, and you're not judging. You're just trying to, you're trying to get to know them on a little more intimate level, right? So you can better, so you can better help them.

• 1:37:08Steven Rinella?

  And they have to know that, like, these guys have to know you've been there.

• 1:37:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, they know. Yeah, they'll know. They can go to the website or they can ask around or they can talk to these guys.

• 1:37:17Steven Rinella?

  I'm sorry, not not just knowledge, but psychologically. It matters that you've seen the things they've seen.

• 1:37:25Speaker 05

  I think it matters.

• 1:37:26Steven Rinella?

  For them.

• 1:37:26Speaker 05

  I I think it matters. I think, and that goes back to that putting in work.

• 1:37:32Speaker 05

  Statement. It's the same with vets, right? You'll you'll you'll be more comfortable with someone that's been downrange maybe than someone that hasn't. Regardless of necessarily even what they did, but they they embrace the suck. They were there. They were separated from their families. They they were there.

• 1:37:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:46Speaker 05

  So it's similar to that. They come in, man, there's nothing tough. We're gonna give them a tour. We're gonna talk about the schedule. We're gonna do introductions and that's where I think the icebreakers come when we start doing introductions. You know, where do you work? You know, tell me about your family, those kind of things. But the funny part is, man, and I I can't explain it any other way than this. As crazy as it sounds and and some of the listeners might be like, I don't know what he's talking about, but. When they come through the door, first of all, when they make a decision to come up there, there's a sense of vulnerability that they have. They're showing up, they know at some point, we're gonna talk a little bit. They're not gonna be forced to, but that's the deal.

• 1:38:28Speaker 05

  They're starting to recognize that they gotta make some changes in their life, right? And, and step up. So some of that's already going, and, and my belief is God's preparing their hearts well before they show up. I'm talking the toughest, most of them don't even have a religious, they don't have to have that to show up there. It's not a requirement. It, it starts before they get here. They get here, they come in, we relax, we give tours, and then I just open it up and explain, listen, man, we're, I'm not here to, we're not judging, we're not, we're here to let you get some rest. Hopefully you'll get something out of it. We'll go outside, we'll do some fun stuff, you get to shoot some, some bows and, and, uh, and we'll dig in a little bit.

• 1:39:07Speaker 05

  And it's a good time to do a self-evaluation, and I just tell them straight, it's a good time to do a self-evaluation and a gut check. I think it's healthy for us, and I can only speak from a man's perspective, because, you know, we're most of in here, in here are men, but you gotta gut check yourself from time to time and figure out where, where am I? What's the purpose of this life? Where am I going? You know, what's gonna happen when I go to die? You know, what, what does that look like? Is this over? Okay. You know, how am I, how am I with my relationships? How am I with my kids? All of those things, how am I with my job, my peers? Those are all, all things that, uh, that we talk about, but it's a good, I think it's important to gut check yourself once in a while. What kind of a man am I? Right?

• 1:39:52Speaker 05

  What, what do I really stand for? Because, uh, you know, we're all gonna get older, and then that's gonna be the question, right?

• 1:39:59Steven Rinella?

  And you invite people to ask these questions of themselves?

• 1:40:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:40:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:03Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, I'll pose the question, and a lot of times, sometimes guys will jump in, sometimes they'll just listen intimately. Um, listen. Then, then when it starts to, trust is earned, it'll open up, they'll talk about an incident. Uh, maybe it was on a SWAT call, maybe, you know, one of the guys got killed, and they're in a stick, and they gotta step over him and keep fighting. Maybe they'll get into that. Maybe it's a family thing. Maybe it's something they feel comfortable to talk about, about a bad situation with a parent or... You know, whatever. It's a safe place for that. And there's a lot of, you know, so many people run by our place and, and drive up there. And I think if they knew the cool stuff is going on down there that's private, what goes on there

• 1:40:48Speaker 05

  stays there. But the, I think some of the ministry work and, and the massaging of hearts and, and loving on people, I think, I think they'd really be, be shocked.

• 1:41:00Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean,

• 1:41:41Steven Rinella?

  and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. You need credit to buy, well, pretty much any big thing. So how do you get started? Easy. The One Pay Builder Card. It's simple and smart. One Pay is the banking app trusted by millions of Americans, and the One Pay Builder Card is an easy way to build credit. Just use it to make everyday purchases, build your credit history, and then you can work up to the big milestones, buying a new car or a new house, or hell, maybe something I'm always thinking about, which is another boat. Those moments start with small, consistent steps with the

• 1:42:24Steven Rinella?

  One Pay Builder Card. Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 1:42:34Speaker 07

  One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder Card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through One Pay at onepay.com/pod.

• 1:42:48Steven Rinella?

  You know those snacks that disappear way faster than you planned? That's Wiley Wallaby Licorice for me. I tossed a bag in my truck for a recent trip and before I knew it, it was gone. I ate it, my kids ate it, my wife ate it, we all love it. What sets it apart is the texture. It's authentic Australian style licorice that's soft and chewy, not hard and waxy like most brands. They've got more than 10 flavors to choose from. I love that it's made in the USA by a company that's been doing things the right way for more than 60 years. Use code MEATEATER at shop.wileywallaby.com for free shipping and try some yourself.

• 1:43:31Steven Rinella?

  You guys are incredibly low key.

• 1:43:33Speaker 05

  We like it that way.

• 1:43:34Steven Rinella?

  In our neighborhood, no one.

• 1:43:36Speaker 05

  Till I came on the show.

• 1:43:38Steven Rinella?

  In our neighborhood, no one knows, no one knows.

• 1:43:40Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:43:41Steven Rinella?

  No one knows. You guys don't have, your trucks aren't marked, there's no sign.

• 1:43:46Speaker 05

  We've got one vehicle that's wrapped.

• 1:43:48Steven Rinella?

  Oh, is it?

• 1:43:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's on the.

• 1:43:50Steven Rinella?

  Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.

• 1:43:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, just the one.

• 1:43:52Steven Rinella?

  But there's no like.

• 1:43:53Speaker 05

  We're all about being low key.

• 1:43:53Steven Rinella?

  I'm always like, you know that place up there? It's like they, they run that nonprofit for first responders and veterans. People are like, what?

• 1:43:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:43:59Steven Rinella?

  I'm telling you right there, man. It's amazing.

• 1:44:02Speaker 05

  It's about being low key. You won't see us in town drinking beers too much. You won't see us, uh, you're not going to see us out pushing this and pushing that. We're just here to put in work. It's old school.

• 1:44:14Steven Rinella?

  How many guys, how many guys come, how many guys come through your place?

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  We get about 70, sometimes a little more a season. Yep. And we usually run from May, depends on the snow and kind of what's happening, but it's even May to November 1st. Yep. And we reset, we usually go every other week, um, reset clean, kind of for us to kind of, you know, for me emotionally and emotionally, just also for me to kind of clear my head and my staff, my volunteers, give them a break. Cause you know, getting volunteers sometimes to come help out and teach stuff when it's sunny in Bozeman is, and it's on a weekend, right? That can be tough, but, um, and then everything's fundraised for and that, that gets tough, you know? But every year we seem to just get enough to keep, keep rolling.

• 1:45:01Speaker 05

  And so I just, just keep the faith, man. Just keep, keep going.

• 1:45:06Steven Rinella?

  How much is doing that work its own? You imagine like, you mentioned like having traumas. How much of that work does that to you and the people you work with?

• 1:45:18Speaker 05

  You mean, what effects do we get from hearing all that stuff?

• 1:45:20Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I mean, does it wind up being, does it wind up being kind of circular? Where you,

• 1:45:28Steven Rinella?

  not that they lay it on you, but like, here you are, 70 people in a, in a, 70 people through the course of the summer, lay on you, all their horrific shit.

• 1:45:41Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:45:43Steven Rinella?

  Do you know what I mean? Does it, does it feel burdensome? Or does it feel like it cleanses you in some way?

• 1:45:47Speaker 05

  Oh, I think I'd be lying to if it's not burdensome, because I think our natural reaction is to take on, to help people to sometimes try to take those on, but it's not my deal. It's, it's not, it's not my caper, right? It's, it's God's. I gotta, I gotta give it to him. I'm just there to facilitate that. And, uh, and that's how, that's how I treat it. But you, you, your heart does break for some of them, and you think a lot about them, and you keep them on prayer lists, and you stay in contact, all those things. But to watch a, you know, it, it's good for me, and I think it's good for my staff to hear this, um, to hear from them and to, to give back in that way. I mean, we're serving those that serve us, right? So it's super rewarding, like it fills the cup big time.

• 1:46:30Speaker 05

  Um, and it, and it definitely helps me personally, brings back a lot of memories sometimes for me that I have to sort through afterwards. Um, but, uh, I think it's circular in that way, in a, in a positive, but I also think if you don't, if you don't deal with it the way you should deal with it, then it can be too burdensome to you. Um, similar to downrange, right? I try, when I first lost those two guys, and for whatever reason, I would, you know, a lot of times I would stand, when, when there was, if I wasn't going on a mission, we had these secret briefing tents, and the convoy would go out, we had convoy security was kind of our primary thing, right? Which is sketchy, because you're rolling down all the roads. And, uh, and we had, I was in there later at night, and I'll, I'll try to work through this here, but

• 1:47:16Speaker 05

  late at night, it's one of my last ones. So I would go in this briefing tent for different chocks that were going out. I would sit in the back in the chair by the door. They'd give their secret brief on the routes. This one's black, this is red, whatever, and kind of go over the mission and how things are going to roll. Well, This was the last one of the night and I had a close relationship with some of these guys. I won't get into why, but with uh, kind of these main ones that were involved in this particular incident. So at the end, I go chaplain, chaplain stands up, everybody stands up. You give them a pep talk, you give them some encouragement, man, because let me tell you something. When you have an opportunity, I don't know of anything more humbling that's happened to me. Maybe the birth of my kids and those kinds of things, but my marriage.

• 1:48:01Speaker 05

  To look in the eyes of a young soldier who could be sucking on a Starbucks latte, but they're downrange, embracing the suck, serving their country, dirty and tired. And you get that opportunity to love on them? I don't know, it's better than that. And so, give them some encouragement, maybe read a Psalm or a verse, pump them up. Cause you don't know who's not coming back from that deal. I mean, just don't, it's a roll of the dice, right? And that particular night, um, I had, for whatever reason, I s- I usually will stand back by the door when they're done and they're leaving and just hug them, smack them on the shoulder, tell them I love them. And uh, you know, I'll see you soon or what, you know, tomorrow or whatever, everything will be fine.

• 1:48:45Speaker 05

  Well, for whatever reason that night, I was focused on these one truck and uh, one, we call them trucks, but one group, so you got a driver TC and a gunner in that truck. And uh, I hugged them, shook their hands and, and I was having a lot of interactions with them. For some other things going on and um, in, in a positive way. And uh, and I told them, they're like, hey chaplain, we'll see you tomorrow. And I said, yeah, I said, you're gonna be fine. I prayed, everything's cool. Guys, you guys go out there, do your thing, man. We appreciate you serving the country. We love you. All those motivational things. And then two hours later, you know, I'm getting woke up at one in the morning or whatever.

• 1:49:29Speaker 05

  And um, running to the TMC and, and uh, they're hawing for me to get back there and they're bringing one of them in on a gurney and he's all blown up and

• 1:49:41Speaker 05

  um, tourniqueted out and, and then I don't see the other guys. And then now I got a medic hugging me crying because we lost those two guys we didn't know. I got company commanders and two, I mean, it's just kind of melee that I'm trying to deal with. But the one, the one young man, he asked me something that was interesting and he said, he's laying on his gurney and he said, He said, well, first he says, hey, chaplain. And I said, and he's still still alive today, great, great kid. And I said, hey, man, I should be asking you that. And then he realized what was happening. And and his legs were in bad shape and

• 1:50:20Speaker 05

  and I said, he asked me this, he said, why did God let this happen? And still to this day, that question haunts me. Haunts me from a few perspectives. I don't have the answer. One. Two, he just, he was sizing it up and realized he's in trouble. And where's his buddies? Because he didn't know.

• 1:50:40Speaker 05

  And I didn't have it, I didn't have anything. And I was thinking, okay, Lord, you gotta give me something. So I just say, listen, man, I don't know. I said, but God's got you, I got you, and I ain't gonna leave your side. And I give you my word, I'm not leaving your side.

• 1:50:53Speaker 05

  And so I stayed with him until they shipped him to Germany, but or Blahden in Germany.

• 1:50:59Speaker 05

  But I I struggled with that the first few days in particular. I mean, I still kind of struggle with it just because I had said something that I don't think I should say again. Did I give him a false sense of hope? Right?

• 1:51:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Speaker 05

  Like, maybe I shouldn't have said those things that way. So I had to change what I said. It's not up to me. It's just not my deal.

• 1:51:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 1:51:19Speaker 05

  Who comes home and who's, you know? It's just not my deal. And so I I had to, I had to change that up.

• 1:51:26Steven Rinella?

  Like you gave him an assurance that wasn't yours to give.

• 1:51:29Speaker 05

  Right, right. Yep. And I, and that's the one that I still remember it, everything about that night to this day. And there was other wounded people and other things, but that was our first one, and I said those words. So I I just

• 1:51:43Speaker 05

  as a learning lesson.

• 1:51:44Speaker 07

  How did you change your words then?

• 1:51:46Speaker 05

  No, you just, you just would say, hey, you guys are doing great work, you focus on the positives. Go out there, take care of business, we're with you, whatever you need, you know, more encouraging. I wouldn't promise them, even though I didn't realize I was doing that till after mortality, like promising them survival.

• 1:52:05Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:52:06Speaker 05

  This is not my call. And so I had to change that up. And there's many other chaplains that have similar stories about you're just trying to give them some encouragement. And that's why you're in there, but you know, they've got to trust that chaplain when that chaplain's praying. They got to trust when he stands, you know, he stands up back there or she stands up. There's got to be a sense of, all right, we're going to be good. So there is some of that, but saying the words, I think is was, I just didn't do that anymore.

• 1:52:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:32Speaker 05

  Figured out a different way, you know?

• 1:52:35Steven Rinella?

  I got a last question for you. Your, your, your, your place where you work is just like this gorgeous property.

• 1:52:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Steven Rinella?

  You guys got like a big creek, you got looking off at the mountains.

• 1:52:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Steven Rinella?

  Trout pond and you got big meadows and it's beautiful. Do you, do you feel that, um, I mean, obviously you do because you do your work there.

• 1:52:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:52:55Steven Rinella?

  But what is that? What is that like natural environment, that natural beauty to be there? Is that?

• 1:53:05Steven Rinella?

  Is that helpful?

• 1:53:08Steven Rinella?

  And getting people to want to go, or is it helpful in getting people to? Getting people to open up, you know?

• 1:53:15Speaker 05

  I think all three, I think there's, it's a yes to all three, right? I think, I think one, people want to come to Montana, you know, uh,

• 1:53:24Speaker 05

  they, they want, they want to come up here and experience the, the beauty of it. I think they go on there and they see the place and they're like, you know, obviously enamored with that beauty. It's quiet, although you know, sometimes now with some of the traffic in the winter, but we don't run as many groups in winter. So, um, but it's quiet. It's away from the chaos, right? It's a, it's a good place to gut check yourself because you can focus on stuff. And, and the beauty and, and, uh, you know, we've got a chef that comes in and cooks and, um, make it comfortable. But yeah, the beauty is huge. And when they wake up and it's quiet and they're looking at trees and they're seeing animals and a lot of times those moose, I don't know.

• 1:54:06Speaker 05

  They're fighting in the front yard and guys are like, you know, I had one fireman, uh, Long Beach fireman. Great group, man. Every person that's been through it has just been fantastic, but we were sitting out there and we do like campfires at night, like a little bonfire. And just kind of get to know each other more every night. And we had started early, so it's still light and we look over and this fox is jumping, just like you see on Nat Geo, right? He's jumping, he's snatching mice up and, uh, out of the grass. And I'm like, wow, that's cool to see that, you know? And this young guy was so pumped, he, he says, I'm gonna see how close I can get. He gets his camera out and he's, and he must've got within 15 yards of that.

• 1:54:46Steven Rinella?

  Oh, really?

• 1:54:47Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. And that sucker just kept doing it over and over. Those are those kinds of things that, that really add to, or bears will walk up. We've had bears, I've been doing a chapel service, so we do chapel service. It's optional, you don't have to go, I'm gonna offer it to you, right? Just gonna do a quick 10 minute, 15 minute, good word of the day. If guy needs communion, get, you know, get communion as well. But 99% of the people come to those. We've only had maybe one or two that weren't of the same faith group, and that's fine. And they were cool about it. Um, and, uh, this happened a few different times. One time in particular, I'm doing the service and all of a sudden everybody's, I lose everybody. And I'm like, I look out and this blackbird's looking through the window. He's watching, he's watching me and he's watching everyone, of course, everybody mag, you know, went right.

• 1:55:32Speaker 05

  Then that sucker got, he was comfortable, he was too comfy. He cruises around the backside and he comes up to the front door. I mean, he's just like, he lived in the joint. I've had a lot of bear issues, as you know, as you know. I had a lot of bear problems over there. Yeah, scared off cubs at night, used to get in my cans, drag a can 40 yards into the brush. Um, tear it up my barbecues on the back patio. I mean, just, yeah, a lot of bear issues. But yeah, it's, I think that the, the natural beauty, the wildlife, I think the Montana feel, all those things are, play a role in calming people down.

• 1:56:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:12Speaker 05

  Hundred percent.

• 1:56:13Steven Rinella?

  So if, if, if people out there, first responders, service members, like, i- if there's a group that feels that coming to see you might be good for them. How do they proceed? And if people that are outside of that, they're just listeners that want to help what you guys do, how do they, how do they proceed?

• 1:56:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, the best way is they go to the website. All the stuff's on the, on the website. If they've got a group they want to put together, there's apps they can fill out on there.

• 1:56:43Steven Rinella?

  So you go to Task Force Heroes?

• 1:56:46Speaker 05

  Taskforceheroes.org, yep.

• 1:56:50Speaker 05

  Donation's the same way.

• 1:56:51Steven Rinella?

  But a group of guys, a group of active, like active people can go and say, hey, you know, me and some of my colleagues or whatever would like to check on the possibility of coming out.

• 1:57:02Speaker 05

  Yep, they could do it that way. They could, there's an email through there that comes directly to me that they can say, I got seven guys or, like I said, we try to, try to make it intimate and smaller. We fill up real quick.

• 1:57:12Steven Rinella?

  Oh, do you?

• 1:57:13Speaker 05

  And we fill up real fast. And we're dealing with some maintenance issues right now that we're, we're fixing because we had a water leak over there and some other stuff. But yeah, that's the, that's the best way to, best way to do it.

• 1:57:26Steven Rinella?

  And how about people that want to support you and help your mission?

• 1:57:28Speaker 05

  That's another best way. Send an email, make a connection with me. I mean, they can get ahold of you. We're, we're right there. We see each other quite a bit. So any of those ways, that, that's the biggest, you know, it's a hundred percent free for these, these folks. And, you know, flying them and feeding them and cleaning and getting them here and all that. It's, operation costs are fairly steep at a place like that.

• 1:57:49Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:57:50Speaker 05

  But we want to make it a once in a lifetime experience for them. Good food, cook them wild game. A lot of them never tried elk or deer or turkey, any of those things. I mean, it's, it's been, it's been amazing. I mean, one time we, we, we got a turkey right there on the property and smoked it up and, and they got to eat fresh turkey. It was great.

• 1:58:14Speaker 06

  Do you guys deal with your nuisance bears on the property too?

• 1:58:17Speaker 05

  We deal with those. Yeah. We have dealt successfully a few times with, with bears. One, four hundred and four pounder, four hundred, over four hundred, man. Sixteen year old bear. The big sucker. And I sent that picture, that big fatty we had.

• 1:58:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:33Speaker 05

  You were like, his, his response was, man, you're gonna get a lot of good bear grease out of that sucker.

• 1:58:40Speaker 05

  A lot of bear grease.

• 1:58:41Steven Rinella?

  Do that area when those choke cherries.

• 1:58:43Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 1:58:44Steven Rinella?

  Down along the, you know.

• 1:58:45Speaker 05

  They tear those things out.

• 1:58:46Steven Rinella?

  I mean, they're all over the, they're like all over the place, man. They, they just vanish, you know, yeah.

• 1:58:50Speaker 06

  Really? I've never harvested a bear, maybe a.

• 1:58:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 06

  The next nuisance one you have.

• 1:58:56Speaker 05

  They stand up and they'll, you know, they reach up and pull them down and they'll just suck them all right off the.

• 1:59:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Speaker 05

  Right off the limb, man.

• 1:59:04Steven Rinella?

  That whole bottom end of that canyon, when the choke cherries come in, it's just bears all over, choke cherries go away, bears are all gone.

• 1:59:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, they take off.

• 1:59:11Steven Rinella?

  And then those waxwings show up, clean up choke cherries and it's the end of the whole program.

• 1:59:15Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:59:16Steven Rinella?

  But it's a little rush, it's a little flurry of activity in September.

• 1:59:20Speaker 05

  Yep, and wounded deer from getting hit and.

• 1:59:23Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:23Speaker 05

  We get a lot of that. You know, my wife running out going, you gotta kill that deer. I'm thinking, well, I got one tag here, I, you know, it's a little spike or something with three legs.

• 1:59:35Speaker 05

  She's like, you gotta do something. So we, we get a lot of that stuff, so. Yeah, any more, any more other questions you had, man?

• 1:59:42Steven Rinella?

  No, man, I'm glad you came on and like I said, I just have, uh, you know, it's been nice to, it's been nice to meet you and then, um, just the little bits I've picked up about the work you did, I was just real impressed by it, man. And then one time you invited me up to meet a couple of your guys.

• 1:59:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:59:57Steven Rinella?

  And I could just tell going there, you know, as short as I was there, I could tell going there, I just could tell you had like a very special program going on.

• 2:00:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's very unique.

• 2:00:05Steven Rinella?

  And I could tell that the guys that were there were, I don't know, man, I could, I could see why they're there. I could see what they were getting out of it, you know what I mean? It's just you create like a really, like a, I don't know, man, like a, you, you, just in that little bit of exposure I had, you create this kind of amazing bubble for people, man.

• 2:00:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:23Steven Rinella?

  But I could picture being hard people to get to talk.

• 2:00:25Speaker 05

  Right. I appreciate that. And it's not just me. It's, I got a great team, I got a great board of directors, they're all. Either former or veterans that are still serving or active military folks or uh you know, I got a lot of LAPD guys on there and guys from different places in the country and uh great board, great volunteers, man. We got, we couldn't do without all them, all them folks and um and then, you know, when we moved up here, we just went all in, all our furniture, all our stuff, you know, I'm, I'm not saying I toot my horn, I'm just saying it was a huge commitment. We didn't know anybody really in Montana and um we got here about almost eight years ago and and uh we're just like, okay, Lord, you gotta do your, do your work here and we filled up that first season in like three months.

• 2:01:07Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:01:08Speaker 05

  And uh it's just, just amazing stuff. So, so my wife for sure and, and kids that, that sacrificed a lot to make it happen. So we just keep on pushing forward and, and I appreciate my relationship with you, man.

• 2:01:19Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 2:01:20Speaker 05

  Just being real. It's uh, it's been, it's been good. I mean, this guy helped me for hours try to find my Hebrew inscripted uh wedding band.

• 2:01:28Steven Rinella?

  Still haven't found it.

• 2:01:29Speaker 05

  I still haven't found that thing. I lost it.

• 2:01:31Steven Rinella?

  We were out there with a metal detector, me and my kids, and man, we found, you don't realize how many uh 22 casings are out in the world.

• 2:01:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:01:39Steven Rinella?

  I'm sure, you know what's funny? I was actually one of the camera guys I'm working with on this History Channel show. He filmed like, he worked for a long time on a metal detecting show.

• 2:01:49Speaker 05

  Oh, man. We gotta find it.

• 2:01:51Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I was picking his brain about that and he was saying that like these dudes that host that show would have no problem mopping up that ring, but man, we were, we got beat.

• 2:01:59Speaker 05

  I had that thing, man.

• 2:02:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'm not like a metal detector, but I, me and my kids were out there and we dug up more garbage. That's a nice looking place for so much garbage, subsurface shotgun shells, everything. It's like, God, well, people could, trying to find a ring here, man. That's a lot of 22 casings.

• 2:02:16Speaker 05

  Like handmade in Israel and my wife's got the matching one and I'm like, oh, man.

• 2:02:21Steven Rinella?

  Maybe someone who's out there is a real metal detecting enthusiast. It's like, you know, so Shane walked out of his house.

• 2:02:28Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:02:28Steven Rinella?

  He journey walks along the side of his driveway. You walked 300 yards?

• 2:02:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, I left the pond. We were, we were, you know, we, we used the pond just to let guys, most of them never fly fish. So just to get them to cast and catch something, just so they get the feel before we go to the creek or we go offsite. And uh I, I kept getting hooked with stuff and, you know, just trying to get, sometimes guys will get snagged, you know, a guy's got something in his ear or something. And so you're working through that. So I took it off, I put it in my pocket. Walked around, I pawned back the house and then I went to take it out in my room and I had a hole in my pocket.

• 2:03:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:02Speaker 05

  And I'm like, so somewhere.

• 2:03:04Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's like, it's like a 10, it's like not 300 yards long and it's maybe a 10 foot wide, 20 foot wide path.

• 2:03:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:12Steven Rinella?

  But thwarted us.

• 2:03:13Speaker 06

  If you know, if you, if you think you could find it, if you are a metal detecting enthusiast and a professional, you can write us at the meat eater podcast at the meat eater.com to offer your services.

• 2:03:27Steven Rinella?

  If you find it, we'll put together, I'm just gonna throw this out there. If you find that ring, we'll put together a generous care package.

• 2:03:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:37Steven Rinella?

  But you got, yeah, say, we're gonna vet you first. We're gonna vet you.

• 2:03:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're gonna definitely, definitely vet you.

• 2:03:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:45Steven Rinella?

  You gotta send us your metal detecting bona fides.

• 2:03:47Speaker 06

  Right, exactly. You need a CV as long as chains.

• 2:03:51Speaker 05

  A property owner check in.

• 2:03:54Steven Rinella?

  Uh, Reverend Shane Yates. Former cop, current military guy, um, a chaps.

• 2:04:06Speaker 05

  Well, I appreciate it, man.

• 2:04:06Steven Rinella?

  CEO of Task Force Heroes. Thanks for coming out, man.

• 2:04:09Speaker 05

  It's humbling. I appreciate you guys, each of you, you know, it really is, what we do is humbling and I'm just blessed to be able to do it and blessed, blessed for all the blessings I've gotten in my life and amidst all my own struggles and own stuff. So, privilege to come on. So, thanks for the time.

• 2:04:27Steven Rinella?

  Thank you.

• 2:04:28Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 2:04:55Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do. Out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig

• 2:05:35Steven Rinella?

  nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. OnX Hunt is full of great features. I always say it's my favorite app. I use the thing on a daily basis. Here's a new feature I'm very excited about. OnX Hunt's location sharing puts your whole group on one live map, so you can look and tell where everyone is. And if at night it gets dark and someone's not back yet, you don't got to guess what happened to them or where they are. You can just look and tell where they are. It has implications for safety, coordination. I can't even list all the ways in which this is helpful. You opt in, and then when you guys are done, the data goes away. It's not stored. Keep the

• 2:06:19Steven Rinella?

  folks in your deer camp on the same page with location sharing from OnX Hunt. Okay, so buying a new car or a new home starts by building credit, right? So how do you start building credit? It's easy. With OnePay's Builder Card, there's no credit check and no monthly or annual fees, just a card that helps you build credit to reach goals like buying a car or home. Download the OnePay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 2:06:52Speaker 00

  OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder Card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through OnePay at onepay.com/podcast. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.