#121 Cmdr. Ahmad Massoud - The Assassination that Changed the World

Ahmad Massoud is the Commander of the National Resistance Front (NRF) of Afghanistan. Massoud is the son of the late anti-soviet and revolutionary commander, Ahmad Shah Massoud, and hails from the Province of Takhar in Northeast Afghanistan. After the assassination of his father in 2001, Ahmad and his family settled in the UK, where he completed his higher education and military training at the Sandhurst Military Academy. Ahmad received his bachelor’s degree in War Studies from Kings College London and his master’s degree in International Politics from City, University of London. After completing his education, Ahmad returned to Afghanistan and started his political movement. Supporters of his father declared him as the successor of the late Ahmad Shah Massoud. Now, he continues to advocate for the freedom of his people, appearing in the media and garnering support from allied nations. His vision for the country is reminiscent of his father's–decentralized, multicultural, and modern. Massoud recently authored In the Name of my Father: Struggling for Freedom in Afghanistan. This memoir explores his aspirations for his nation’s future and his commitment to the values of liberty, justice, and human rights. SIGN THE PETITION - https://www.change.org/shawnryanshow Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://unplugged.com/shawnryan https://betterhelp.com/shawn https://mypatriotsupply.com https://hillsdale.edu/srs https://expressvpn.com/shawn https://blackbuffalo.com https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner Commander Massoud Links: X - https://x.com/AhmadMassoud NRF X - https://x.com/nrfafg | https://x.com/alinazary Book - https://www.amazon.com/Name-Father-Struggling-Freedom-Afghanistan/dp/1645720969 | https://www.republicbookpublishers.com/product/in-the-name-of-my-father/ Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians’ healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He’s not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She’s for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.

• 0:30Shawn Ryan?

  Listen up, because you’re all gonna want to pay attention to this. Pre-9/11, the US was given several warnings by a man named Ahmad Massoud, leader, commander, of the Afghan National Resistance Front. Those warnings stated that there was an imminent terrorist attack that was going to happen on US soil. And his warnings were completely ignored by the administration at the time. And we all know how that ended. It ended with the World Trade Center falling to the ground, killing thousands and thousands of Americans,

• 1:12Shawn Ryan?

  putting us in a 20-plus-year war. Now, Massoud was assassinated two days before 9/11. And he’s survived by his son, also Ahmad Massoud, who’s following in a parallel pattern of his father’s footsteps, also now the leader of the Afghan National Resistance Front. And Massoud is once again warning the United States that there is an imminent threat for a terrorist attack to take place, once again, right here on US soil. And once again,

• 1:56Shawn Ryan?

  his warnings are falling on deaf ears and being completely ignored. In fact, as DC tries to cover up the way the Afghan withdrawal happened, they’ve blacklisted him from coming to the US.

• 2:14Shawn Ryan?

  And so SRS has taken action. We've created a petition. The link is below in the description. And I urge every veteran who fought in the global war on terrorism to sign that petition.

• 2:33Shawn Ryan?

  And if you have a family member who fought in that war, sign the petition. And if you're a citizen who's concerned that what Massoud is telling us is actually true and there is an imminent threat to the US that there will be a terrorist attack, I urge you to sign the petition. We're going to get the petition to Representative McCall, who is chairman of the House of Foreign Affairs Committee. He's over the State Department. He can get Massoud in front of Congress so Congress can hear what that man has to say about these threats and about the way that withdrawal happened.

• 3:18Shawn Ryan?

  Trust me, this is in all of our best interest. Sign the petition.

• 3:27Shawn Ryan?

  Link's in the description.

• 3:34Shawn Ryan?

  Commander Massoud, welcome to the show.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

• 3:39Shawn Ryan?

  It's an honor to have you here.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's a pleasure, old man.

• 3:43Shawn Ryan?

  We've been trying to piece this together for several months now. And I just kicking it off, I want to say thank you to Legend for setting this all up because without him, it wouldn't have happened. And I personally believe this is the this is the most important interview that I've ever done. And I'm really excited to get started.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. And thank you so much for having me. And of course, thanks Legend and all the friends who facilitated for this.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  It means a lot and I hope for us have a good time.

• 4:17Shawn Ryan?

  Me too, me too. And I also wanted to say that

• 4:22Shawn Ryan?

  this really pains me to say this, but I want, I just want to...

• 4:28Shawn Ryan?

  apologize for the the way that the United States has abandoned you, the NRF, the people of Afghanistan, the way the withdrawal happened. And I want you to know that despite how it may look,

• 4:49Shawn Ryan?

  a lot of veterans are rooting for you guys. We want to help. We don't necessarily know how to help. I'm hoping we can get into that a little bit in the interview. But I just want you to know that

• 5:05Shawn Ryan?

  a lot of the American people are rooting for you guys and want to support. And the way that that withdrawal happened and the way that we abandoned you is no representation of the majority of the American population.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 5:21Shawn Ryan?

  And

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Well, thank you very much. First and foremost, you have nothing to apologize for. And also, the great nation of the United States of America and the people of United States of America.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  They have always supported the people of Afghanistan. And they supported the refugees who went in the States and America. So the people have absolutely nothing to apologize for. And we are very much grateful for all the support. And of course, the policies unfortunately in the past years, it has not been in the favor of, in my opinion, both Afghans and Americans. And so therefore, that is questionable, but that has nothing to do with the will of people of America. They are a great nation and great friend of Afghanistan.

• 6:17Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 6:20Shawn Ryan?

  Let's get in with the interview. I'd like to start with a introduction.

• 6:25Shawn Ryan?

  Commander Ahmad Massoud, leader of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, son of the late anti-Soviet and revolutionary Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud. After the assassination of your father by Al Qaeda just days prior to 9/11, Commander Massoud eventually went on to the UK where he received military training at Sandhurst Military Academy. Also pursued war studies at King's College in London. In 2016, Mr. Massoud returned to Afghanistan and became the CEO of the Massoud Foundation, supporting top students across Afghanistan. In 2018, you officially entered Afghan politics

• 7:09Shawn Ryan?

  and started a political movement that continued in your father's footsteps of decentralized and multicultural Afghanistan. Following the Taliban takeover in August of 2021, you refused offers to evacuate Afghanistan and instead returned to your father's former battleground in Panjshir Valley to form the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan. Despite overwhelming odds, you continue to lead the National Resistance Front against the harsh rule of the Taliban, where they serve as a long vanguard against the growing influence of international terrorism. In fact, you have had multiple assassination attempts on your life.

• 7:52Shawn Ryan?

  Your hobbies include Persian poetry and astronomy. In fact, very much intended to pursue the field of astronomy until tapped on the shoulder to lead your country in the name of your father.

• 8:06Shawn Ryan?

  And the title of your new book, "In the Name of My Father."

• 8:12Shawn Ryan?

  So, one more thing we gotta get out of the way before we get into the interview. I have a couple of gifts for you.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you, thank you very much.

• 8:20Shawn Ryan?

  And so, this is from Elma Washington, and they are proclaiming September 9th Massoud Day.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you very much.

• 8:31Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:33Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome. And I also want to say that my hometown in Franklin, Tennessee, has also done the same exact thing.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 8:40Shawn Ryan?

  Which is very cool to see.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:44Shawn Ryan?

  And then, one other gift. Being who you are, I know you're very security conscious. This is a phone.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 8:52Shawn Ryan?

  So that phone, we took this very seriously, and we set up this entire interview on that phone. That phone cannot be tracked by Google, Amazon, Big Tech. There's some secure messaging platforms on there. I think we both know Eric Prince.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:11Shawn Ryan?

  He developed that phone, and he asked me to gift you that.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Well, thank you very much, sir.

• 9:17Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, and please thank him as my behalf too. It's a great gift.

• 9:23Shawn Ryan?

  I will. Privacy and security is always a concern these days, and so I thought there would be nobody better to give that to than you, so.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you very much.

• 9:32Shawn Ryan?

  So, to start off, I'm gonna be honest. I was very surprised that you were, that you took this interview, knowing how your dad was assassinated for doing an interview.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:46Shawn Ryan?

  Would you like to go into that at all?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Well, there has been a lot of attempts on my father's life, throughout his life. From the time that probably the most notorious spy agencies at that time, KGB, was trying to assassinate him multiple times, that he survived to after that, the Taliban and Al Qaeda, many times. Finally, they succeeded.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  Although there has been some warnings to my father that be careful with interviews, be careful with cameras, but my father always wanted to pass the message as broad as possible and as far as possible to bring awareness to Afghanistan that Afghanistan needs to be paid attention to. So I believe he felt taking the risk was worth it in exchange for expanding the message and expressing the grave situation of Afghanistan. And that's exactly what I do beside that, that I know you so this was not, this was not a question of risk or worry.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  So this was, this was all just fine.

• 11:01Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. Could we get into a little bit, I want to give the audience some context that don't know much of the history about your father and, and the parallels that you have. And so I remember my first, I've been to Afghanistan more times than I can count. I remember the very first time I landed in Kabul airport going through Massoud Circle, an iconic circle, and so many things are named after your father. Can you go into a little bit of the legacy of what your father was about?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Sure. Well, first and foremost, my father has been always very much famous for being a military genius. He managed to withstand multiple major attacks by the Russians and managed to withstand against the might of global terrorism and he managed to bring unity against such a sort of chaos.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  And he was a centerpiece in fighting against the Soviet and fighting against terrorism. In Afghanistan, he's very much famous for being the national hero of Afghanistan, that saving country multiple times from such invasions, from such chaos and crises. However, at the same time, he proved to be as a very political genius too. At his decisions, his foresight, for example, knowing what would happen with nine eleven, for example, but months before this, he warned United States of America and he warned the world

• 12:46Speaker 02

  that the issue of Afghanistan would reach to the soil of America and it would be catastrophic. And exactly that happened. So his foresight, his charisma, his honesty to his people, and his devotion, that he never allowed himself to leave his country. And he was ready, and ultimately he did, and gave the ultimate price, which was giving his own life. So that devotion and that sort of charisma and that love for his country and that hard work is something that created not just a legacy of a genius, but a legacy of hope.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  So what I can basically conclude is that my father was a symbol of hope for his people. And his values was to the extent that people who were his enemies, like Russian generals, they admired him. His enemies admired him. And his fame and his sort of love went all the way from Argentina to South Korea, to Japan, to across the world, that the people who got to know him, they fell in love with that idea, with his cause and his determination to follow those values. He was a man of principle.

• 14:10Shawn Ryan?

  It's my understanding, he was assassinated on September 9th

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:16Shawn Ryan?

  by Osama bin Laden, correct?

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:19Shawn Ryan?

  Two days before 9/11 happened.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:23Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know why they assassinated him before 9/11?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Of course. Al Qaeda had a plan to take over Afghanistan. And ultimately, their goal was to expand their sort of government across the globe and have that, which is against all the values of Islam, their Islamic khalifa, which is something they wanted. And they found out that there is an obstacle on their way. To do it, they needed a territory. And the best territory was a war-torn country called Afghanistan, that they have already been there for many years because of fighting against the Soviets.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  So they felt this war-torn country is the best place that they can explore, expand, and train, and recruit, and from there, make it a jumping ground, basically, to go to and spread to across the world. But one thing they didn't realize, and they didn't take into account, was the presence of a man called Ahmad Shah Massoud, that created a resistance against such idea. And he was a symbol of Muslim moderation, Islamic moderation, which is the majority of Muslims, that they do not share anything with those extremists like Al Qaeda and those terrorist groups.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  So when he stood against them, he was far more dangerous to Al Qaeda than America and the others. Because first, he was representing Islamic majority, or majority of Muslims. Second, he was on the ground fighting against them. And he managed to defeat them time after time on battleground.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  We had video evidences, that you can find it even on Youtube, of these terrorists, Al Qaeda terrorists, that we captured them. And they were detained in our prisons. And my father had them in his prisons as a proof that Al Qaeda is alongside Taliban in this fight. And we had people from Chichens, people from different parts of Africa. This global terrorism alongside the Taliban, they were fighting against my father.

• 16:47Shawn Ryan?

  So all of the terrorist organizations were working together against your father's resistance?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yes, and they did not succeed.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  My father with his companion and with the rest of people of Afghanistan, they fought all alone for many years against the Taliban and their allies, which was international terrorism, like Al Qaeda. And he not only managed to resist and prevent it, that at later stages, the Al Qaeda and Taliban realized that he was undefeatable on the ground, just the way that the Russians realized he is undefeatable. So when it happened, Al Qaeda changed their tactic. Their tactic was that now that we cannot defeat him in the battlefield, on the ground, let's assassinate him. And this was the second phase, that they started planning.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  One plan failed, the second plan failed, the third plan failed, and the last plan, that the same group and the team of Al Qaeda, which managed to create the chaos and the tragedy of 9/11, same group planned my father assassination. And this is why we believe these two were intertwined. So if one wouldn't happen, the other one wouldn't be carried away. So if my father assassination wouldn't be successful, the 9/11 wouldn't happen. Because they wanted that, without Ahmad Shomasud. And with this creating this sort of hitting America and telling all the sort of their companions that, look, we even hit America,

• 18:26Speaker 02

  they would bring this sort of attention of their fellow comrades to come in Afghanistan, we are now here, Ahmad Shomasud is gone, this is our sanctuary. So when they assassinate my father, they carried out the attack at 9/11. But luckily, the sort of intervention happened. And the Taliban ultimately, with the help of international community and international forces and with the forces of National Front of Afghanistan, they were defeated. So that is what happened.

• 19:00Shawn Ryan?

  Do you believe that they may have also assassinated him because they knew that US and NATO forces would ally with your father's resistance?

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Of course. One thing is that they knew that if,

• 19:19Speaker 02

  without help,

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Ahmad Shah Massoud cannot be defeated. Imagine with help.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  This was another thing that they knew. First thing they had to do was to get rid of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Otherwise, Ahmad Shah Massoud, with empty hands, he can manage to do it. Not only to withstand that slowly, slowly. I remember at the latest years of first resistance against the Taliban, my father was actually training and preparing police officers. And that is not for attack. It is for capturing citizens. This is for maintaining order. So my father was preparing to regain the rest of the country and to establish order. And he knew, my father, in many of his interview, he indicates and he states that now the Taliban

• 20:13Speaker 02

  will never be able to achieve military success no more. From now on, they will be on the losing side. But they came up with the assassination plan. And it was the first suicide attack in the history of Afghanistan.

• 20:27Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Yes. It never happened before that. That's why it was something that we never been prepared with. Because we never knew such heinous attack can happen.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  We never had, we never had experience of.

• 20:43Shawn Ryan?

  It came to my attention before this interview that your father actually warned of imminent attacks on US soil.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:51Shawn Ryan?

  Prior to his assassination, which to my understanding fell on deaf ears. Is that correct?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 20:59Shawn Ryan?

  Now you're here, twenty something years later.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Same deaf ears.

• 21:06Shawn Ryan?

  Warning America that there's another come, another coming attack. Is that falling on deaf ears as well?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, yes. It's like history repeats itself. And we all know where Ahmad al-Zawahiri was hiding. And we all know what Saif al-Add, leader of al-Qaeda, has been called his fellow friends and colleagues to come, which he said, he clearly indicated, and he said, all of you come to Afghanistan now Afghanistan is a safe haven for us. And we cannot ignore in the latest incident, very sort of scary incident that happened in America, that from the southern, the southern border, many terrorists, they went inside the United States and luckily they got captured.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Imagine if they were a bit too late, what would happen?

• 22:00Shawn Ryan?

  Well, my concern is it's only eight has been captured. Do you have any estimation on how many may have already entered the US and continue?

• 22:40Speaker 03

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• 23:09Speaker 02

  Well, I believe many. It's very concerning indeed.

• 23:16Shawn Ryan?

  I know you have some very prominent intelligence officers under your command. Are they tracking any of that?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Well, at this stage, because of our limited resources, I'm very much focused on what's happening in Afghanistan. We are able to track a lot of these things in Afghanistan, but as soon as they go beyond the borders of Afghanistan, our resources do not allow us to operate in that scale, to be very frank and honest. However, we are very much aware, and all they're until it indicates. The people do come from outside Afghanistan for training inside Afghanistan. They do get training inside Afghanistan, and they do leave Afghanistan, to where we don't know. But those things that inside Afghanistan, we have sort of eyes and ears, we know that that process is happening.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Coming, getting the training, and going. Where do they go? We don't have resources to track them.

• 24:16Shawn Ryan?

  Why is Afghanistan the prominent training center for terrorism?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Because it doesn't have a legitimate government. Because the regime which is in charge right now in Kabul has the same ideology as the rest of the terrorist groups.

• 24:31Shawn Ryan?

  Is that the only country that is like this?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  It's the main country right now in the world.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Right now, there are more than 21 terrorist groups active in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda, Jaishe al Adl, TTP, Ansarallah, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, the Ego's, and many, many other terrorist groups. Regional and international, they are active in Afghanistan.

• 24:58Shawn Ryan?

  Is there a difference between ISIS, Al Qaeda, and Taliban?

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Yes, the difference is that ISIS is very young and they don't have the experience of Al Qaeda and Taliban. So they cannot hide their intention as well as Al Qaeda and Taliban. Al Qaeda and Taliban, they learned from the first time they came, that if they explain, if they expose their true nature, there will be resistance against them internally and externally. So therefore, they have to keep it local. They have to say that, "No, we don't care about the other countries. We are just going to impose." Same ideology and mentality on people of Afghanistan, in Afghanistan. "We don't care about the rest of the country." But ISIS is too young and they are expressing their own sort of intention.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  However, on ideology, they are just two sides of one coin. Let me tell you something, Asham. What is the difference in activity that ISIS do, which makes them worse than Taliban?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  I challenge whoever says that they are different. What is one activity, or one action, or one thing ISIS do that the Taliban doesn't, which makes Taliban better than them? I challenge whoever, just one.

• 26:24Shawn Ryan?

  I can't think of anything. The only thing that I can think of is that they are new and they publicly, they seem to publicly display...

• 26:38Shawn Ryan?

  The atrocities that they do to human beings

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:42Shawn Ryan?

  on a global scale, a lot more than Taliban.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 26:46Shawn Ryan?

  But that's from my perspective.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Of course, you're absolutely right. Because they don't have the experience of Taliban and hiding and being patient and to have a strategic planning. But Taliban and Al Qaeda, because it's been more than 30 years they're fighting, they possess that knowledge and they possess that skill to hide it better and to plan for long-term benefits and interest.

• 27:11Shawn Ryan?

  So, the United States is funding the Taliban, to my understanding, 40 million, up to 87 million dollars a week.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:23Shawn Ryan?

  Going directly to Taliban.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:26Shawn Ryan?

  A terrorist organization that the US and the resistance fought for 20, over 20 years, two decades.

• 27:36Shawn Ryan?

  My question is, what is the, what is the, looking at it from a 30,000-foot view, what is the goal of Taliban for Afghanistan?

• 27:49Speaker 02

  The goal is to have the ultimate sort of control in Afghanistan, to impose themselves on people of Afghanistan, to tell them, "You have no choice, you have to just accept us." To create their own radical extremist dictatorship in Afghanistan. And from that, create these sub-terrorist groups and export it, under different flag.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  This is, there are clear indication of cooperation between Taliban and TTP. There is clear indication, evidence, of Taliban and Ansarallah for Tajikistan. There's clear evidence of Taliban and the other terrorist groups, Al Qaeda, for example. So what they do, they want to have a territory that they can operate, they can maneuver, they can recruit, they can train, and they can export. So here to control, and from there, to export the same ideology. For example, according to all the evidence and the data which government of Pakistan shared, the attacks in Pakistan since the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan increased 500%.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  The encouragement, such a sort of, you know, victory of the Taliban to other terrorist groups, it's unbelievable. So when they see that if we keep fighting, killing, commit de-suicide bombing, kill innocent people, commit all these atrocities, at the end, a superpower like America will come, a Doha or somewhere else will sit with us, talk with us, accept us as the reality, accept us as the only choice, and give us 70 million dollar a week so we don't kill the people or starve them to death. Why wouldn't TTP continue with their ambitious plan

• 29:48Speaker 02

  when they see their brother next door did the same thing and achieved it? So, why United States is doing it, I don't know. I heard today that the Congress passed a bill to stop the taxpayers' money to get to the Taliban. Very good news, I hope it happens and I hope it truly be implemented. And there is some sort of explanation that sometimes officials, they say, "Oh, we are not giving it to the Taliban, we give it to the NGOs so they help people." Since the Taliban takeover, 900 NGO has been created under the direction of the Taliban. So on other hand, it's the same thing.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Another aspect, which is very important, in the time of republic, with all the problem that Republic of Afghanistan had, any foreign support, especially American aid, was conditional that we give you this much aid, but you must tell us where you're spending your own internal income. Taliban right now are having 2.5 billion dollars internal income, excluding the opium trade and all those incomes they are having from opium. Just those legitimate incomes of the country from ports and taxes and the other stuff. The Taliban are having 2.5 billion dollars income annually.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  And the aid that is going to them, seventy million weekly, it is not conditioned that, okay, tell me where are you spending all of those money? All those 2.5 billion dollars that they are getting annually is being expended on brutally destroying the people of Afghanistan to more consolidate themselves, to consolidate their terrorist groups in Afghanistan, to more create these jihadi madrassas, to radicalize people even more. So all of it are being used for consolidation of themselves and increasing their war power and helping their regional and international terrorist groups.

• 32:07Shawn Ryan?

  To your knowledge,

• 32:10Shawn Ryan?

  does the terrorist organization, the Taliban, have any other allies other than the United States?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Well, I believe the Taliban, at this moment, they do not have a strategic friend.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Every relationship they are having so far, it has been tactical and they are seeing Taliban as a short-term partner, not a long-term strategic partner. I don't think America is their ally. However,

• 32:46Speaker 02

  it is unfortunate to even think that America is in a sort of fruitful engagement with them,

• 32:56Speaker 02

  which so far, for the past three years, I don't know what was the benefit that they gave for America, but so far for the people of Afghanistan, it was zero and it was very destructive. But with the other countries... The Taliban's relationship, even with Pakistan, which for many years they had a sanctuary over there, it turned sour. Because the Taliban are trying to explore this terrorism everywhere. So therefore, in my opinion, their relationship with other countries, it's not strategic, it's tactical. Everyone is scared of what's happening in Afghanistan. However, indeed, those years that they fought against America

• 33:38Speaker 02

  truly created some, let's say, shared experience with many countries that they invested for killing Americans alongside the Taliban.

• 33:51Shawn Ryan?

  What about China? I know China is... When the withdrawal happened, China was there immediately to do negotiations in regards to some of the things called like lithium mines. They're obviously very interested in what they're... with the US importing all the green energy supplies from there. Are... Do you have any knowledge of China becoming an ally with Taliban or any of the other terrorist organizations?

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Well, with Chinese, I'm very much disappointed with the sort of policies they are having. In my opinion, they are seeing Taliban as an alternative to presence of NATO in Afghanistan. Even if they think Taliban are bad, but they see the presence of NATO in Afghanistan worse. So that's one aspect in terms of those geopolitical games. Secondly, of course, these resources of Afghanistan, which our position is very clear. Any country that are trying to negotiate with Taliban or deal with Taliban to get rights of exploiting these mines and these treasures of Afghanistan,

• 35:09Speaker 02

  this is called theft. And we do not support it. And they are... They will be held accountable by the legitimate government of Afghanistan. If they want to have a legitimate relationship with Afghanistan, they need to help for a legitimate government to come in power. The Taliban are not legitimate. And it is very unfortunate that their policies regarding Afghanistan, it has been very shallow. Their strategy has been very shallow. It's very one-sided and they have been only thinking about the Taliban and engaging with them. And they are seeing Afghanistan as a land that they can get their hands on the mines or treasures of Afghanistan. It's theft.

• 35:55Shawn Ryan?

  Are you seeing a lot of Chinese infrastructure being built?

• 35:59Speaker 02

  No, I don't see a lot of infrastructure in Afghanistan, but I see a lot of activity in prisons. And once again, it is, it's a shame that China should know and the absence of a legitimate government that is not accepted.

• 36:17Shawn Ryan?

  Let's move into the withdrawal, the withdrawal of US and NATO troops. Where were you when that happened?

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I was in Kabul.

• 36:27Shawn Ryan?

  You were in Kabul?

• 36:28Speaker 02

  I was in Kabul, yes.

• 36:29Shawn Ryan?

  Did you have any warning that that was coming?

• 36:35Speaker 02

  I knew it for a couple of years before it happened. I knew that Afghanistan is on the verge of collapse because all the signs is indicating that such tragedy would happen. Sean, unfortunately, the thing is that it was, sometimes when I'm hearing from Secretary of Defense to others, they were saying that it was a surprise. I'm shocked. It was not a surprise. It was clear as a day that it was coming. And if nobody else, which I'm sure did it, I personally warned Mr. Khalil Zat,

• 37:17Speaker 02

  the US Embassy, some presidents and officials, which I met in Europe.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  And also regional players and countries. I told them specifically that all the signs that indicates that Afghanistan is going to collapse. It is tragic, it is devastating. It will be a huge blow to everything we achieved for the past 20 years. All those sacrifices we made and we gave with blood and sweat and treasure. It will be devastating. Please pay attention. This peace process that you're going forward with, it is not a peace process. This is handing over Afghanistan to the terrorism. The peace process is unconditional.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  The withdrawal is unconditional. And nothing is in the right place. And the Taliban are just waiting to take over. And everything so far has been doing a demoralized everything else. The best thing, at least if you wanted to leave. I told this specifically to Mr. Khalizat. If you guys wanted to leave, if you guys wanted to leave people of Afghanistan behind, very well then, at least do not elevate our enemy. Do not demoralize us with your negotiation with them. Just leave. It's okay. We fought before all alone, like my father. We'll fight again.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  However, with what you do, you're holding our hands tight and you elevate them. And I'm sure one day you will blame us. And that's exactly what happened.

• 39:02Shawn Ryan?

  That's enraging. That's enraging. Did you have, were you privy to the date that we withdrew?

• 39:10Speaker 02

  I knew that it is happening on the, on September, 1st of September. I was aware when it was announced, but before that I didn't know about the exact dates. But I knew in my heart that 2021 was a devastating year for people of Afghanistan.

• 39:30Shawn Ryan?

  It's my understanding that France offered you an extraction to go to France during that withdrawal. Why didn't you take that?

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Not just France, many countries, they offered.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Well, I remembered

• 39:50Speaker 02

  the faces that I looked at those eyes and faces and told them about freedom, about my father, about democracy, about human rights, about women's rights, about fighting terrorism.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  How could I just leave them after all those things I was preaching to them? And what would I do outside?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  I gave it a very hard thought nights before the collapse, and I knew it would happen. And just like my father, I was prepared to give the ultimate sacrifice.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  To be very frank, because I knew how everything is completely gone and how Taliban will be left with billions of dollars of equipment. And at the end, it will be a valley against, basically, a country. And all odds would be pointing out to our demise and our death.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  I just didn't want to be alive to see my country go this path. And, but unfortunately,

• 41:06Speaker 02

  that didn't happen. And I was alive. And I get to see what happened, which is heartbreaking and a much bigger pain to me than death occurred to me, which is witnessing my country going to this situation.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  And, but, in my opinion, because I believe I am a man of God and I believe in God, I believe that He kept us alive for a reason. And that's why ever since, my purpose is to retake my country and bring back the integrity that has been taken from my country.

• 41:46Shawn Ryan?

  I believe that too. I believe that too. Can we go into some of the things that happened right after the withdrawal? Because Americans only saw, which was disastrous enough as it is, they only saw the act, they only saw snippets of the withdrawal. They saw the Afghans falling from the C-17 planes trying to latch on. They saw Americans that were blown up at Abbey Gate.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:17Shawn Ryan?

  They saw babies being killed on razor wire fences.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:23Shawn Ryan?

  They saw people giving up their kids, just trying to get their kids to safety. What we didn't see, and what nobody really knows about, is what happened after the cameras left. What happens, what happened after the US was gone? Can you go into that a little bit?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Well, four things happened, Sean. First, a nation got a devastating blow. Fourteenth of August, a girl of Kabul in Afghanistan had a world of dreams and hopes for his, for her future. She went to school and she came back and she was thinking, okay, tomorrow, day after tomorrow, five years, 10 years, I'll become doctor, I'll become engineer, I'll become politician, I'll become head of state, I'll be this and that.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  First thing happened, that the dream of my people got shattered. First. Second thing that happened, it was the trust. People of Afghanistan filled, filled with their heart and with their skin, how they can be abandoned overnight and be forgotten. And be handed over to the same enemy that we have been fighting for 20 years together. The third thing that the world didn't witness was the catastrophic and terrifying terrors

• 44:10Speaker 02

  that Taliban did to the people.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Girls went on the street. They brutally destroyed it. They throw them in jail. They raped them. They defamed them. And they destroyed something that even the communists, even the Russians didn't do such atrocity.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  But, on the other hand, another thing happened. Some people didn't give up. Some people didn't care if they were alone. They fought. Even if they were little, if they had nothing, they fought with their hearts, with their soul. And still to this day, they are fighting. Women on the street, even they were being thrown to jails, they continued protesting and standing to this day they are doing. And there were some guys, former Afghan army, special forces, and regular citizens. They went to the mountains. They didn't care if no longer there is a friend supporting them from the air or on the ground.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  They were with themselves, but they stood for the values that the world left them and abandoned those values. They fought and to this day they are fighting, all alone. So these four things happened when the cameras left, when the attentions left. But the people of Afghanistan with all those terrorists are still very much hopeful, are still very much passionate to take back their country and they're fighting.

• 45:53Shawn Ryan?

  How did the government take over? What was that process like when it comes to the Ministry of Defense, the NDS, the Afghan version of the CIA, the president? I mean, how did that process look when Taliban was taking over all these different sectors of the Afghanistan government? Were those individuals assassinated?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, one thing which was one of those signs which indicates the fall of Afghanistan was the poor leadership in Kabul.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Mr. Ashraf Ghani created a situation that was impossible to rally around him and to rally around the government and to do something. Because we did. Way before the collapse of Kabul, I rallied my people. I went to different provinces. I spoke to many people. They were ready to do something. And we passed this message to Mr. Ghani and we passed this message to the government, that we are ready, we don't want Afghanistan to fall. They just didn't listen. They didn't care. So this is another aspect that absolutely, I believe that our international friends must take responsibility

• 47:19Speaker 02

  for the catastrophe that happened in Afghanistan. At the same time, I blame us the most, the Afghan government, the politicians and the leaders, that they didn't have the foresight of Ahmad Shah Massoud and the former leaders, that they knew something that happened, they prepared. They didn't have that foresight. They were very short-sighted. That they didn't prepare, they didn't unite and they didn't resist. So what happened? The president fled the country. As soon as he fled the country, everything collapsed. I was in Kabul.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Everything collapsed with it. And unfortunately, with that, the Taliban managed to get inside the city with almost no resistance inside the Kabul. Another aspect was that if there was a resistance happening in Kabul, probably it would be even successful, but with the cost of thousands and thousands and thousands of people of Kabul. So when the leadership didn't have a plan, when he left and ran away before anyone else, I was in Kabul.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  And I witnessed everything first hand myself. When he left the night before and didn't even

• 48:44Speaker 02

  told his companion and his colleagues, even his chief of staff. He told his chief of staff, "Go and prepare a meeting for me." He lied to him and he ran away in another helicopter. So, in such chaos, the collapse happened very quickly and there was almost no resistance. Because Mr. Ghani, with his policies, lost the legitimacy and the support of the people. And with people like me, that we wanted to stick to the values of the republic and to keep Afghanistan as a whole, he was very much against such idea too. He was a very egocentric person.

• 49:24Shawn Ryan?

  How fast did this spread outside of Kabul?

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Kabul was the second last, the last place that fell to the hand of Taliban was Peshawar. Before that, it was Kabul. Kabul, I was there and Kabul fell on the 15th of August to the hand of the Taliban. And the other areas, it was very rapid because three months before the collapse of Kabul, the Taliban didn't have control of even one district. Three months prior to the fall. As soon as this withdrawal, this unconditional withdrawal with this negotiation and talks, it improved.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  The soldiers got very demoralized in the policy of the government and Mr. Ghani. It was very, very, it was non-existent, basically. As I mentioned, that Afghanistan didn't have a military doctrine. The leadership didn't have a military doctrine. And with such things, very rapidly, the demoralization occurred and collapse happened.

• 50:40Shawn Ryan?

  How much of the country is now controlled by Taliban?

• 50:46Speaker 02

  The Taliban are in control of the main cities and provinces and even central districts. However, it is impossible for any country or any government to control the whole geography because it's very mountainous area. It is impossible to do so. So right now, the Taliban are in control of most of the districts and provinces as you're speaking.

• 51:09Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. And what province are you from?

• 51:13Speaker 02

  I'm from Panjshir myself, and the resistance is happening. It was started in Panjshir, but now it is in the 12 provinces across the north and northeast of Afghanistan. And we do not have the strategy to capture districts or provinces because we do not have resources to keep it. I can take over a district if I want tomorrow, but I don't know if I can keep it for the day after. So the lack of resources is something which is enabling us to have a strategy to take over a district or a province now.

• 51:48Shawn Ryan?

  Before we get into the strategy, your strategy, I'd like to ask one more question about the US funding the Taliban. Is there... We know that the US is funding the Taliban with 40 million to 87 million dollars a week. Is there any other funding or aid that the US, NATO, any other countries is giving Taliban and/or any other terrorist organizations?

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Well, there are many rumors about it, that the Taliban's GDI are being funded.

• 52:30Shawn Ryan?

  What is the GDI?

• 52:31Speaker 02

  GDI is the Taliban, this notorious KGB of the Taliban, basically, CIA of the Taliban, and this intelligence sector of the Taliban, which is very notorious for imprisoning people, torturing people, raping people, disappearing people, kids, women, men. It's a very notorious entity. However, there are some rumors that it has been supported in exchange for information on al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

• 53:05Shawn Ryan?

  Supported by whom?

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Well, there are rumors that it has been supported by the Western Fund. It's just a rumor. Once again, I don't have evidence to provide in this case. I'm very... One of the things that I always try to be is to be very honest about what I say. And politic of honesty, I believe, is the best form of politic. I don't have an evidence about it, but there are rumors that for cooperation, there has been some funding.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  But apart from that, from World Bank to the Bank of Asia, which they are going to attend the Doha Conference in a few days, there are sort of evidence in that regard that there are some supports given to the Taliban from those entities. So therefore, in terms of funding, directly, that's 70, almost 70 to 87 million weekly. And there's indirect settings and meetings that's happening regularly. And this engagement, sharing of information that is happening regularly. And also, according to Sigar,

• 54:20Speaker 02

  that for the past three years, 17 billion dollars has been sent to the Taliban.

• 54:28Shawn Ryan?

  17 billion dollars?

• 54:30Speaker 02

  17 billion dollars, according to Sigar, if I'm not mistaken.

• 54:34Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about the Doha Conference when we're talking about support for the Taliban. Can you explain what the Doha Conference is?

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Doha Conference was an initiative at the beginning to end war in Afghanistan and to bring Taliban to the table for negotiation and talk.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  The intention at the beginning, or the...

• 55:00Speaker 02

  So the intention was serene, the intention was right. The way it was handled and managed, it was absolutely awful.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  And it made it in a way that today, when you mention Doha, it brings nightmares to the girls and women and men of Afghanistan.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Because Doha, with giving Taliban office, it elevates them at one point, which providing them with a sort of an opportunity to travel to Moscow, to attend the Moscow conference and other area. They went, they flew from Pakistan and they flew from Doha. It was a second elevation. And the third was this peace process, this negotiation directly with America, which we always thought that Americans would never negotiate with terrorists. That happened. That negotiation and talk, it elevate Taliban to another aspect. And because it was managed and handled in the worst way possible

• 56:09Speaker 02

  and with no condition and with no regard to the people of Afghanistan, to the government of Afghanistan.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  At the end, single-handedly, the Doha conference collapsed the government of Afghanistan and everything we achieved for the past 20 years. Single-handedly, the Doha is the reason for the Afghanistan devastation. How many, who is at the Doha conference? In Doha conference, which happened, it was first, the negotiation talk, it was between the Taliban and it was between the United States of America. And then at later stages, they added some representatives from Afghanistan. In that deal, the Taliban promised on many things,

• 56:59Speaker 02

  but the deal was made in a way that they did not hold Taliban accountable for anything. It was not conditional on anything. The Taliban were, okay, we hope or we promise or we do this. There was no condition in it.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  It was very one-sided, and it was in a way, basically, to elevate Taliban and hand them over the power in Afghanistan. And that's what happened in Doha. That's why people in Afghanistan do not trust the Doha process. It's very unfortunate. It could be something that truly turned a new page for Afghanistan and create a new era. Ban Conference, with all its flaws, was a new beginning for Afghanistan. And they remember Ban as a new beginning. But Doha, it is a very dark stain in the history of Afghanistan.

• 57:55Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I'm surprised that... Let me, let me start here. How many other Middle Eastern countries support Taliban and/or other terrorist organizations? Because the reason I'm asking is because I'm surprised that, that Taliban was even able to send representatives to Doha to meet.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Well, there are some talks in Afghanistan among the politicians and the people that it would not be possible without the green light of the United States of America. Qatar wouldn't be able to do it without a green light.

• 58:37Shawn Ryan?

  Are there any Middle Eastern countries that support Taliban or terrorism?

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Well, the support can be defined in different ways and means. Just the fact that they have meeting, it can be translated and seen as a support. Well, it will be a shame to all those leaders of anyone in the Middle East or the region or the world to be seen with Taliban, a group that in 21st century, go against all the values of mankind, go against all the values of the modern time, go against all the values of Islamic values. For example, preventing girls to go to school is against all the Islamic law.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Even Boko Haram and Africa allow girls to go to school, but not Taliban. So it would be a shame to them that they try to show a different image of Islam, the leaders of Emirates, the leaders of Qatar, the leaders of Saudi or the other countries. And just to be seen with a group that prevent girls to go to school, commits such heinous crime, which I just showed you, just few images of it, just few like, you know, sort of evidence of it. It is, it is a shame and I hope for them to, to never do such thing. In terms of like a proper support, in terms of funding and, and the rest,

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't think the Taliban are in a position they needed because they have 2.5 billion internally that they didn't, they don't answer to anyone and they spend it for their own expenses. And the world and America is providing them with 70 million weekly to spend for the rest.

• 1:00:30Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's talk about your support.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:33Shawn Ryan?

  What, who is supporting you?

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  God and people of Afghanistan.

• 1:00:40Shawn Ryan?

  That's just the people of Afghanistan?

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  And God.

• 1:00:43Shawn Ryan?

  And God?

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:44Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's a good ally.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good, that's the biggest ally.

• 1:00:47Shawn Ryan?

  It's the only one you need.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  That's all we need. That's why I'm very much positive and I'm very much always energized and I'm very much happy because I truly believe that the path that we are taking is the right path. And I didn't wait for the permission of United States or Russia or China or Iran or any other country to tell me that, okay, you're allowed to fight or no, don't fight.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  I was at my home with my people. They came to kill me, my people, my sisters, my mothers, and to take my land and brought foreigners with them that had no relationship with my religion.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  I had every right to fight them. My religious values allow me to fight them, and I didn't need any permission for it. And that is why they are not supporting me, because I didn't take any permission and I'm not aligned with any policies they have. But let's face it, Shaun, I don't care actually, to be honest, because for me, what I care is my people.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  And that's why no... Almost nobody in Afghanistan is supporting Taliban. If truly they support Taliban, this is one of the main discussions that we have in the past two years, three years.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Okay, Taliban say they have the... They are the most popular group in Afghanistan. Very well. Let's hold an election.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Let's see who people of Afghanistan decide to support. If it's you,

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  I'll be ready to be hanged in the center of Kabul.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  I'll be ready to be just a teacher in Kabul. I'll be ready to live on, I don't know, some island to be an exile. Anything you say. If you truly feel that you have the popular vote, allow people to decide. Because one thing I believe, I love one thing more than anything. I have a sweet daughter that I'm in love with, but even more than my daughter, than my family, than my father and his legacy, than my people and my country. Shaun, I love freedom. I truly love it.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  Me too. I just... It's the best and biggest gift of God to every human being. It's their freedom, right? So if the Taliban truly say

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  they should give freedom back to people and that freedom can be defined, the people must decide what they want for their future. I'm not saying for the Taliban to allow me to rule. I'm just saying, let's people decide. And probably I won't even run for an election.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Because there are very far better capable men and women to be able to to run the country. But all I'm saying is that freedom is worth dying for and that freedom is something no one is allowed to take from another human being. Right now, the Taliban have taken the freedom from forty million Afghans, including myself.

• 1:04:11Shawn Ryan?

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that there are a number of neighboring countries who are completely against the Taliban and know better than to deal with them. My understanding, Pakistan, Iran, and Chezikistan. Am I correct?

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  Uh, well, as I mentioned at the beginning, I believe no country is happy with the current situation. Because Pakistan, although they supported Taliban for almost three decades, but they got a taste of their own medicine.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  They took the American money for war on terrorism, they invested back in terrorism.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  The terrorism activity in Pakistan increased according to their own data, five hundred percent, as I mentioned before. So they realized this was not what we wanted. They thought they could keep the control of the Taliban. You cannot control fire.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  Iran, after the collapse of Afghanistan government, they realized that the immigrants who were in Iran, which was about two million, increased to six million people. Iran is already having a very difficult time economically.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  So that was another six million on top of their own population, which needed to be fed, protected, supported, educated, and blah blah. And the threats in terms of security and stuff which was being

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  opposing itself on Iran from Afghanistan. Tajikistan, same thing. So and I believe the current situation is not in favor of any other, any country. However.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Except Tajikistan, which is standing with the people of Afghanistan, based on one demand, exactly what I just told you, election.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  People to be able to decide.

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  The other countries, they are not being very clear.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Not Pakistan, not Iran. Their policy is not only clear in terms of a legitimate government in Afghanistan, but actually very vague. And engaging with Taliban, giving, for example, Iran gave Afghanistan embassy to the Taliban, Afghanistan consulate to the Taliban. And Pakistan was one of the first countries which gave Afghanistan embassy to Taliban. Russians gave Afghanistan embassy to the Taliban. So therefore, this is very unfortunate that such countries are having such ties with the Taliban and not realizing that such policies, it only involves Taliban. And doesn't matter how much you bribe Taliban

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  or give them something to appease to Taliban.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  Such mentality, it just wants to spread.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  And without a legitimate government in Afghanistan, all these, all those issues they have in their head, it cannot be solved.

• 1:07:28Shawn Ryan?

  Has the, has the US discouraged other countries from aiding you in the resistance?

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  With their statement and their policies, I believe so. And maybe not directly, but their policies is indicating that they do not want any insurgency or any freedom fighting to happen against the Taliban. Probably that is one of the things they promised to the Taliban, that after our withdrawal, we were not going to support any opposition and we won't allow anyone to support your opposition. Probably it's one of those hidden parts of the Doha deal.

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• 1:08:47Shawn Ryan?

  By now, you probably realize that this is the most important interview of my career thus far.

• 1:08:55Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:12:32Shawn Ryan?

  It's my understanding that the president of France... Wanted to aid you one way or another and was discouraged by the US. Is there any truth to that?

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  I don't know about that.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Was he discouraged? And also about the promising of support. The France has a very historical relationship with Afghanistan. And in terms of basically supporting Afghanistan way before the wars even began in Afghanistan. And having many schools, French schools across Afghanistan, especially in Kabul. And my father actually attended in one of these schools. And he could speak French, my father. So that was one of the reasons that he was very much actually a very popular figure in France, because he was speaking French. But in terms of support, there was nothing concrete. And there was no such thing as talking in this regard or any promises for the support.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Of course, they are supporting the human right and woman right. And one of the few countries in Europe, which is very much advocating for such thing, for Afghanistan, and which we appreciate it. But there was not a promise in that regard to be discouraged by US. But unfortunately, the policies that US and current administrations are having, it is disappointing regarding Afghanistan.

• 1:13:59Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about your strategy and the strategy of the resistance. Where do you even start with fighting these guys?

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Well, my first strategy was

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  an emotional uprising

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  in the face of a huge tragedy, which was my own sacrifice.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  On 15th of August, Sean, when I was in Kabul, I gave it a long thought. Because before that, we tried everything with the regional countries, with the Western countries, with Afghanistan government, to prevent the catastrophe. I wasn't successful. So when I knew all is lost, I knew the only thing that can be saving us, it is a national uprising by all people of Afghanistan against a very small group called Taliban. To do it, I needed to empower people in that way. The only thing was a thirst for revenge.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  And that could happen only if they could see a very, so to say, painful tragedy.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  And so my first strategy was to go to Panshir Valley, defend till the very last minute,

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  and have a very, how to say,

• 1:15:36Speaker 02

  a crazy end, to give your life, die in the most painful way,

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  being bombed, being destroyed and shattered.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Maybe within that tragedy and that sacrifice,

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  it would give my people a reason

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  to rise.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  And because I knew

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  African people are very much wanting it, but they needed hope.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  Because they felt lonely, they were hopeless, they felt abandoned, and they have fought for against the Taliban for many years. And also, there has been war going on in Afghanistan for many decades. So they were very much tired, and they were lonely and hopeless. So I needed to give them something. Unfortunately, or fortunately, many things happened that luckily, I didn't die. And I went outside Afghanistan to find support for my brothers and sisters who are fighting against them.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  I never had the intention to leave my country. I just went out to find something. Because you're a man of war, you're a military man yourself.

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  For fighting, you need resources. For your guns to fire, you need bullets. And we ran out of them.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  And I was surrounded in a valley with no support from anywhere. So I had to go and find something from somewhere. But as soon as I left, unfortunately, the frontline collapsed. The pressure was immense.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Once it happened, we gathered all the military committee and we said, "Okay, now that the pressure is too much, what should we do?" And we exchanged our strategy. And we changed it. And we knew that we are in a long-term sort of a strategy. Now we have to build everything from zero.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  That this is going to take longer than we expected and much harder work.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  There were many people like me that who were willing to give their life, not to witness such tragedy and not to be able to do all of this hard work. But God will, and also the people wanted us to take this hard path. And so we changed the strategy from a conventional warfare to guerrilla warfare. And to create the narrative against the Taliban. To build, because the government collapsed, to build a system, to build something, basically a semi-government, to work with. Anything, right? An organization, that was it.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  And last, to bring support and to create a situation to be able to once again gain the trust and to find support. So these were the strategies that we started after the collapse of Kabul. The narrative was created, and that was resistance. We were very successful in it. Right now, there's Emirates Resistance and the Resistance,

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  the Emirates narrative and the Resistance narrative. We created the counter-narrative. And we have so far been very successful and winning the narrative war.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  The Taliban so far did not manage to get internal recognition. Every day that goes by, they're losing in that war. And more and more people are coming to our side. First. Second, since the government collapsed and we had nothing, we built an organization. And from that came into existence the N R F, National Resistance Front Organization. And third thing, it was to prove to ourselves we can do it. It was continuing this fight guerrilla warfare. And that was one of the reasons that the military committee, the military leadership told me that we have enough resources to either operate or protect you. So you need to leave the country

• 1:20:09Speaker 02

  because we cannot exhaust our resources on protecting you. Because as soon as they know you're here, they're gonna all attack there and we have to exhaust all our resources in protecting you. So because of this, we encourage you to go and find the support. You be outside Afghanistan whenever necessary and we will do the fighting inside Afghanistan. And one of the things that I have been very sort of honest about it with my people. The moment that I leave my country, whenever I'm outside, whenever I'm inside, I've been very, very honest with my people. Because one thing is, the Taliban, they had sanctuary in Pakistan for almost two decades. They never came in Afghanistan. They lied that, oh, we were always in Afghanistan. But it was a lie. We all knew they were like, you know, and Pakistan and different countries hiding.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  One thing is that I have been very honest with my people. And this was the decision and this was basically the strategy we have. And we proved after three years, starting only in Panjshir Valley, now we are operating to 12 provinces. And in the latest report of U N, Guterres himself even agreed and commented on it that the N R F operated and executed 20, more than 25 attacks only in Kabul in span of past three months, which is way more than that. But the reports that he get, that even he admits it. So you see, we...

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Proved that even all alone with no support we stand. We proved it ourselves, to our people. We created a narrative, we created an organization. And for three years, we have been withstanding against all the might of the Taliban. Not only we have been successful, but we managed to expand. Yes, the warfare is guerrilla warfare, because it is a tactic against an enormous sort of group that has 70 million weekly handed over to them. That has 2.5 billion dollars annually from Afghanistan income. That also have the backing of all the international terrorism and the biggest source of income they have, which is the narco trade.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  And against such force, we cannot just go for a suicide attack. We needed to change the strategy and we managed to be very successful. But in the past one and a half years, after adopting this strategy, we didn't have even one prisoner and one person got killed. Wow. We have been very successful. We operated 500 meters from the Taliban's Arq Palace. We didn't have, we didn't have one person captured and one person killed. Very precise, very calculated and very successful. Besides that, we have been so careful and so calculated that so far there has been luckily, thank God, no civilian casualties. Wow.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  No civilian casualty, just one person got a little hurt. We went to his home. This is interesting, Shah. We went to his home. I sent my people to his home, because we knew he got injured, a civilian. We monitored. We gave him money, we gave him compensation, we gave him support, we gave him our care and love. Look what he said. After he got the money, he gave it back. He's like, "What are you talking about? These things happen." Before, whenever Taliban was having these attacks in Kabul, we were always scared and my kids, he had some of his daughters. My kids were always scared that, "Oh, again, the terrorists are attacking in Kabul. God knows how many people, innocent people died."

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  Now, whenever we are hearing a blast, we are happy like, "Oh, thank God, they had these monsters."

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  The guy handed back the money to us like, "Don't worry, I'm all fine. Keep doing what you do." The people are with us. People are truly supporting, but they are alone. When they see, from ministers, to politicians, to statements, all indicates that, "Oh, African people, you have no choice but to accept your reality." What choice do they have? The Doha Taliban say, "No opposition, no girls, no civil society, nothing." And UN backs down from their own mandate, which the Security Council passed a resolution

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  about six, seven months ago. Their own mandate, they back down from it, and they give in to the will of Taliban. How people can trust the world? But we have an amazing people. Let me tell you a story, Sean. It's something, maybe you like it. I spoke with a mother that at the beginning of war against the Taliban, three, two years ago, before adopting the new strategy, which was the guerrilla warfare, he lost five members of family in one hour. His husband, two of his sons, his husband's brother, and his son-in-law.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Five men of the family, gone in one hour. They were killed like Nazis, blindfolded, hands tied behind their backs, and shot, firing squad. And the Taliban released those photos publicly on Facebook. Publicly, they released it. Exactly as the Da'esh and ISIS killed their prisoners, they killed our people and my valley. I called that lady, mother of one martyr, wife of another, sister-in-law of another, and mother-in-law of another.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  I called and I said, "Mother, I'm calling. My name is Ahmad Massoud." And I was weeping a little bit. I was terrified. "How can I break this news to this woman?" She already knew. She said, "Why I hear a shake in your voice, Ahmad Massoud? Don't you talk to me like this. We have a hope in you. Tell me, when is the next time that you give a call us? Give a call. So this time, I will go to the mountain." I was speechless.

• 1:26:44Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  I was speechless. For good two minutes, I was silent. She was talking. Some tears was coming and I was like, "If I give my life to them, it's not enough." These amazing people.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  This is the people of Afghanistan.

• 1:27:05Shawn Ryan?

  What does that feel like to you? To carry the responsibility of all the hope and trust that your people put into you?

• 1:27:18Speaker 02

  Two feeling. First, for example, I was with some colleagues today that they saw me from early morning, I'm going to this meeting, to that meeting, basically running everywhere. And they were like, "Oh, how can you do it?" And I said, "Because when I think of those people inside, it gave me courage. It gave me energy. And what I do, it's nothing compared to what they are going through." So first is hope. And second, to be very honest,

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  it's so difficult

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  that I'd rather not to be alive than to carry this responsibility. It's that difficult. Especially if you have principle and you care. If you don't care about the livelihood of people, it's easy.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  But if you care, it's too difficult.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  If you care about those brothers you have in the mountains, you think about them. How are they? Are they hungry? Are they fed? Imagine what you... Because I have nothing. How can I give them something? Food, water. And I know why they are there. And those families who gave their lives

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  for the causes that I told them and that we all believe in those noble causes. So it's extremely difficult. With all the love I have for freedom, for democracy, for my people, for my country, for my family, that I'm willing to give up on all of that rather not to be alive than to bear this responsibility. However, with such huge responsibility and task at the same time, their courage gave me courage, their hope gave me hope, and their will moves me every minute and every day. They are incredible. They are the true hero. I'm nobody. They are.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  Those women and those men who are still fighting inside Afghanistan, they are the true heroes of Afghanistan. I'm just their voice. I'm just their mouth. That's all.

• 1:29:37Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to... Not that my opinion matters, but I just want to commend you for moving from more of conventional tactics to guerrilla warfare. As you have... And I don't know what the percentage is, but I mean, you have some of the best-trained commandos in the entire world with more experience than anybody in the world, to include all of the veterans who have been in the Global War on Terrorism for 20 years.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:30:07Shawn Ryan?

  We go home and then come back. You fight for 20 years.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:30:14Shawn Ryan?

  Longer than 20 years. And so to be able to utilize that experience in small tactic groups...

• 1:30:24Shawn Ryan?

  I believe it's a very smart move on your part. And, and where I'm kind of going with this is, is, and if you can talk, and if you, if you can't, that's perfectly fine. But what are some of the targets that you're targeting? I mean, we left, I don't know how many billions of dollars worth of ammunition, night vision, weapons, everything you can possibly imagine to create war.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:56Shawn Ryan?

  You had mentioned an operation close to the palace, within 500 meters.

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31:00Shawn Ryan?

  What are, what are some of the targets that you're going after using guerrilla warfare?

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Well, the targets, of course, at all of it, they are being identified and picked and by the, our military committee and the military leadership. And all of them, 100%, they are the military targets. And they are...

• 1:31:29Shawn Ryan?

  Are they individuals, like leaders?

• 1:31:32Speaker 02

  Individual convoys and sort of checkpoints and many other sort of targets that are crucial to the Taliban, or they are, for example, we knew about the existence of this person from GDI, the Taliban's intelligence service, that had hand in torturing women, raping women, kidnapping women, killing prisoners, and all these atrocities. From the likes of him to, to, to many other sort of opportunities. It's based on the opportunity, how it is and the warfare. But this is something that the military committee has been deciding

• 1:32:14Speaker 02

  and our personal insight and our heroes inside Afghanistan, they are deciding. And Sean, they have been incredibly successful and they have been incredible, they are doing incredible job because...

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  It is easy when you have all the support in the world. Let's not forget when the Taliban did it, they had the support of many countries and they had a country to have sanctuary in it, to be trained in. And there were tons and tons of materials and goods that could make like, you know, their equipment was being transferred to them from the borders of their country in Afghanistan to the Taliban. So they had huge support, but we had, and we have nothing. So with all that taken into consideration, what they are achieving, it is incredible.

• 1:33:13Shawn Ryan?

  I would agree. Have you been able to, or have you thought about trying to secure some of the equipment that the United States left?

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Well, the equipment that you're speaking,

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  they are all across Middle East and they're all across maybe even South and Central Asia. And it is not, all of it, it's not stayed in Afghanistan. Definitely TTP have some of it, definitely many other terrorist groups had their hands in it, the Taliban are selling them, the Taliban are basically

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  sending it in support of their fellow friends who have the same ideology. So some of those equipments that you mentioned, it is in the hand of, in the wrong hands already, it happened in the past three years. The Taliban are using most of it. And the amount that we have, it's not a lot, it's a very limited amount that we have. And even some areas, our people and our personnel are using the old Soviet guns that they captured in the time of fighting against the Soviets. And so unfortunately, I can say that it is, it's, at this stage, it's quite difficult for us to possess the American equipment.

• 1:34:40Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have a... More of an intelligence side branch to the NRF?

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  Yes, because in such warfare, the intelligence part is the key component, in my opinion.

• 1:34:52Shawn Ryan?

  How are you conducting that, if you can say?

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  Well, I can say that if you see that we have not had any casualty, nor we had any prisoners for the past one half years. And also, probably I can say that there is, except some small areas and some very hidden details, the Taliban do not possess a secret that I don't know. Let's say it. Of course, there are some areas and cases that it is. But to say how they're operating and how they're working, it is of a bit of confidentiality for their security. I wish not to speak of it.

• 1:35:38Shawn Ryan?

  Have you, switching gears a little bit, have you thought about going to the US to personally ask them to stop funding the Taliban?

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  I don't think they like me to be in the US.

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  Otherwise,

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  not to just ask those questions, but to, like, you know, but to let them know how their policies is affecting the people of Afghanistan.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  And how it is, probably it will affect a lot of aspect of people's life in America.

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  You know how 9/11 changed the political, even social landscape of America. Imagine what would happen if something like that would happen again. So therefore, not it will happen, but it is a question that...

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  There are a lot of concerns, there are a lot of policies that they're having, which will have a huge impact. Forgetting about Afghanistan has always proved to be a wrong decision. But it is happening. To bring that awareness, it's something that needs to be done. But so far, I don't see any interest in accepting me in America and listening to what we have to say.

• 1:37:06Shawn Ryan?

  It's been my understanding that the current administration has kind of blacklisted you from coming. And what a disgrace. But, you know, the US has a long history of lying to its own people and to the rest of the world. And some examples are the funding of the Taliban. Another is Hakani.

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:40Shawn Ryan?

  And I think maybe another one of the big ones is when we lied and let everybody assume that Hamza bin Laden is dead.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:51Shawn Ryan?

  Which it turns out, he's not dead. What is he doing in Afghanistan?

• 1:37:57Speaker 02

  Well, one thing is that al-Qaeda, for the past 20 years, with their relationship with the Taliban, they complete each other.

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  This is something that might interest, you know, the people of America, that al-Qaeda and Taliban left so close with each other and so integrated with each other for so long, that is almost impossible to differentiate them now.

• 1:38:31Speaker 02

  For the past 20 years, they, there's a lot of weddings and marriages happened within them.

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  Now they turned into a family. How can you break a family apart?

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  It is proven that there has been marriages between them. So that's one aspect. The second aspect, they share interests. Al Qaeda helped them intellectually and helped them with experience and knowledge, helped them with the technical aspect of making bombs and expertise. And of course, helped them with the presence of the Al Qaeda fighters. For example, we showed you a video of the Taliban alongside Al Qaeda fighters attacking Panjshir Valley on August 2021.

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  So they had so many shared experiences that it is impossible to differentiate them now. It's just like how we mix sugar in a water or salt in a water. It's almost impossible if you keep like swirling it for 20 years. How will you take the sugar or take the salt out of the water? So that's one aspect of Al Qaeda that let's not forget. The second aspect is, sometimes I hear that they say, oh, Al Qaeda doesn't exist in Afghanistan. And yet, US fails to ask a very simple question from Taliban.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  What was Ahmad al-Zawahiri do in Kabul?

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Mr. Biden said, "We killed Ahmad al-Zawahiri, the mastermind of 9/11 in Kabul, under the protection of Taliban." Very well, I have few questions.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  What was he doing in Kabul? Ahmad al-Zawahiri, the mastermind of 9/11, the leader of Al Qaeda. Second, how he could be in Kabul without the Taliban knowing about it?

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Third, how he was shot down and killed?

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Either the United States administration is lying to its people, and he didn't exist, he just said we killed someone in Kabul, or he did. If he did, it means Taliban are completely integrated and in cooperation with al-Qaeda, and they need to be held accountable, because it means a breach in the Doha agreement. Because in Doha agreement, the Taliban promised to completely disconnect themselves from the rest of terrorist groups. They did not, and that is the proof. So there's a lot of in question in this regard. And the latest gift in this marvelous story is the call of Saifuddal Att, the leader of al-Qaeda, upon all people to come to Afghanistan for training,

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  for experience, and learning from Taliban, and of course, go back and do the same atrocities.

• 1:41:42Shawn Ryan?

  The US just... It's getting very hard to find any truth coming out of the current US administration. I mean, even during the withdrawal, I remember right away, they... I believe they claimed to have killed the... Was it the ISIS fighters that blew up Abbey Gate with a drone strike and a taxi? That actually wound up being... They just killed a bunch of USAID workers. I mean, the incompetence is just astounding. But moving on, because we're on a time crunch, I want to talk to you about the continuation of the withdrawal.

• 1:42:24Shawn Ryan?

  And there are a lot of veterans, US veterans, who are very involved in extracting our former allies, the resistance. And I would imagine...

• 1:42:41Shawn Ryan?

  I understand why they want to leave, so I don't want to say I'm not, I don't want to come across as not sympathetic. But what I do want to come across and say is, the more US veterans get involved in extracting men with warfighting experience that we train, that you could be using.

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:02Shawn Ryan?

  The percentage of you coming out on top diminishes.

• 1:43:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:07Shawn Ryan?

  And so, what would you like to see happen? Would you like to see veterans, US veterans, continue to extract?

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:17Shawn Ryan?

  Our former allies? Or would you like that to stop? And those fighters start fighting with the NRF?

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  Well, as you mentioned,

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  first and foremost, it is,

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  once again, it proves that the defeat in Afghanistan was political. It was by the politicians. It was not by those who fought in Afghanistan. This is crystal clear now.

• 1:43:50Speaker 02

  Well, because of the atrocity that Taliban are committing, how they are very much focused in targeting those who fought against them.

• 1:44:03Speaker 02

  It's very difficult for me to say, no, don't evacuate them. Morally, it is wrong, because I know in what grave danger they are at. Of course, absolutely, I would rather them, to have them in Afghanistan, because sooner or later, the support will come. Because tis Taliban did not change. And the terrorist attack only increased. Pakistan, Iran, Russia, United States. You see how it is increasing? Germany.

• 1:44:33Speaker 02

  So the support will come, but I hope it's not too little, too late. First and foremost. Second, I cannot put myself in a position to decide for those veterans. Because they are in such a terrifying situation. Constantly Taliban are looking for them.

• 1:44:56Speaker 02

  And unfortunately, one thing happened, that the United States and Afghanistan government, they did, uh, they took their fingerprints and they,

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  saved it all and servers and everything, and they left it all to the Taliban. So now the Taliban, as they have all this sort of, they know the scanners and everything. Biometrics. Biometrics, exactly. They have in biometrics. And as soon as they put their fingers anywhere, if they enter from any point from Afghanistan, if they are from the borders, if they go anywhere inside Afghanistan, as soon as they do the biometric, they will know who was who.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, one thing that happened, that our international friend and also the Afghanistan government, they didn't have the decency to destroy all those servers and those equipments, to make it harder for Taliban to identify those who fought against them. So now, even worse than women of Afghanistan are those who fought against Taliban, those special forces and commanders and Afghan people who are in army. Because they have been fingerprinted like now, they know their identity. So now they can't go anywhere, they're imprisoned in their home. As soon as they go anywhere, one fingerprint, they will know who is he, and he disappears. So I cannot put myself in that position.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  However, the messaging of those veterans are different to you and to me.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  To United States, because they know they don't have any intention

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  to support them, to help them, and to fight. So their request is, then if you do not have that will, then save me too. But you know what they said to me? They never asked me for evacuation even once.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Nobody asked me categorically to whoever I spoke, said, "Sir, give me equipment, give me gun, give me support. I'll go to the mountain. I'm gonna take my revenge. I do not allow this because this defeat, it was not militarily. It was political. I didn't lose. They made me lose." This is their message. So if

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  the world behavior and messaging changes,

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  they do not want to leave Afghanistan. They want to stay and fight. And we have enough credible and talented and experienced and trained personnel to take back Afghanistan and bring back order. However, when they see the messaging of the world is that we don't care, give in to the will of Taliban, now the Taliban are our new besties, then they have no choice to say, "Then at least save us too."

• 1:48:03Shawn Ryan?

  When it comes to US veterans that want to help, and there's a lot of us,

• 1:48:11Shawn Ryan?

  and I can't speak for everybody, but we are

• 1:48:16Shawn Ryan?

  not a representation of what our current administration and government is about.

• 1:48:23Shawn Ryan?

  Is there anything that US veterans or anybody that doesn't like what happened and what's happening, how the withdrawal went? Is there anything we can do to help?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Well, first and foremost,

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  once again, I need to emphasize that

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  paying attention to Afghanistan and what, for example, the veterans are doing, it's something that will decrease the feeling of people toward America, that they will know that the politicians failed them, that those who fought alongside them didn't forget them. So it's something very important. Secondly, I believe it is very much beneficial for the people of America to know how policies affect the people thousands of miles away from them. And I believe that veterans can be that voice.

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  To tell because of their experience, because of their knowledge, what happened and what is happening, how the policies are affecting, how the world sees America. And they can help in the future policies. We are on the season of election. I believe it is veterans are always being hold to the very high in the eyes and mind of people of America. They always, you know, hold them, you know, in high status because of what they have done for their country. And I believe it is, it's important for the future of America as well, that for the politicians,

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  those who want to come and those who are at, to listen to these veterans and to know their feeling and to know what they say, because they are in touch with their counterparts in Afghanistan and they have the experience in Afghanistan. And I believe that ignoring them, it's a grave mistake that not only affect Afghanistan, but will affect the future of those who want to join army, who want to join the Navy and who want to join the Air Force, that they will see that, okay, all these values that we have been preached to, we are going to Afghanistan for this, it was nothing but a lie.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Our administration are keep lying to us. So I believe the veterans are very important.

• 1:51:01Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we're also extremely concerned because we have sons and daughters. You're warning us, something's coming to the US. I think a lot of us have a very strong belief that we're going to wind up in Afghanistan again and it'll be my son and my daughter.

• 1:51:23Shawn Ryan?

  Doing this all over again and that scares the hell out of me. But I will say that what we're doing right here and what me and Legend did and what me and Sarah Adams did, it is creating waves. And just on the flight over to Vienna, I saw that one of our representatives in Tennessee, Tim Burchett, has proposed a bill to stop all funding from the Taliban. Can't believe there's not more congressmen that wrote that bill, but credit to him and this is gonna spread.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:51:59Shawn Ryan?

  Commander, I'm so glad we met. It was an honor to have this interview. And I'm praying for you. God bless and I hope to see you again.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Of course, and thank you very much. I hope that we never see any tragedy, not in America, not in Afghanistan, not anywhere in the world, because what we want is to see peace and prosperity for all. And let's not hope that Afghanistan needs my son and my daughter, or your son or your daughter, to once again, to do what we did. And there is one thing, to prevent that,

• 1:52:41Speaker 02

  we need to listen to Ahmad Shawn Sood. In 2001, when he came to Europe, he said, "I'm here.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  We are enough to defend our country, to fight for our freedom, to fight for democracy on those values we share. Support me, support us, and we will not allow Afghanistan to be a threat, not for ourselves, not for anyone else." And I will have the same message. Right now, the thing is, I'm not asking United States or any other country to send troops to Afghanistan. I'm enough and we have enough to fight, to defend ourselves, to defeat the terrorism and to make Afghanistan a safe haven for its people and a threat to terrorism, not other way around, the way it is right now.

• 1:53:37Speaker 02

  But we have that opportunity now.

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  Exact message that my father said. So, we need attention to Afghanistan. We need support for the democratic forces of Afghanistan. And we need awareness. Let's not forget Afghanistan. Unfortunately, it proved that the world cannot hold or cannot handle two crises at a time. The Ukraine, the Gaza.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  While we understand all of that, however, the crisis of Afghanistan has always been an underlying sort of pain and problem that always affected in the long term. And I hope that the help and support for people of Afghanistan can come and we will see the end of the terrorism. Because right now, the people are ready to do it more than ever. If the people give in, then it will be very, very hard and very, very difficult. Five years' time, 10 years' time, let's not forget the Taliban are building madrassas, jihadi madrassas, with the US money

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  to create more suicide bombers and brainwashed people. Imagine what will happen in five and 10 years' time. That they... Because right now, they have created, according to themselves, 2,000 schools. If 2,000 jihadi madrassas release 1,000 or 100 students annually, imagine how many brainwashed foot soldiers will be ready for recruitment of Taliban, al-Qaeda, ISIS, any other terrorist groups in five years' times and 10 years' time. Maybe even then, if any other country, if US or any other country comes to our assist, assistance and support,

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  maybe it will be ever too late.

• 1:55:42Shawn Ryan?

  It is terrifying to think about. But we'll end it here.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Thank you very much, Ron. It was a pleasure meeting you, brother.

• 1:55:49Shawn Ryan?

  You too.

• 1:55:50Speaker 02

  Thank you. You take care of yourself.