#549: The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite New Apps, Bad Science, Quarantine Delights, and a Small Dose of NFTs and DAOs

The Random Show — Biohacking, Tim’s COVID Experience, Holiday Gift Ideas, Favorite New Apps, Bad Science, Quarantine Delights, and a Small Dose of NFTs and DAOs | Brought to you by Tonal http://tonal.com/ smart home gym, LinkedIn Jobs http://linkedin.com/tim recruitment platform with 770M users, and Helix Sleep http://helixsleep.com/tim premium mattresses. More on all three below. Technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy Kevin Rose (@KevinRose https://www.instagram.com/kevinrose/) rejoins me for another episode of The Random Show. In this one we discuss the recent KevKev and TimTim reunion in Marfa, good television for anyone passing time in quarantine, Kevin’s latest biohacking adventures, utility NFTs (including Kevin’s upcoming PROOF https://www.proof.xyz/ drop), donating cryptocurrency for psychedelic research https://app.endaoment.org/saisei, ketamine therapy, my COVID experience, holiday gifts http://tim.blog/giftguide, financing and budgeting apps, and much more. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by Tonal http://tonal.com/! Tonal is the world’s most intelligent home gym and personal trainer. It is precision engineered and designed to be the most advanced strength studio on the market today. Tonal http://tonal.com/ uses breakthrough technology—like adaptive digital weights and AI learning—together with the best experts in resistance training so you get stronger, faster. Every program is personalized to your body using AI, and smart features check your form in real time, just like a personal trainer. Try Tonal http://tonal.com/, the world’s smartest home gym, for 30 days in your home, and if you don’t love it, you can return it for a full refund. Visit Tonal.com http://tonal.com/ for $100 off their smart accessories when you use promo code TIM100 at checkout. * This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs https://linkedin.com/Tim. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs https://linkedin.com/Tim can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer. Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs https://linkedin.com/Tim can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim https://linkedin.com/Tim. * This episode is also brought to you by Helix Sleep http://helixsleep.com/tim! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix http://helixsleep.com/tim, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete http://helixsleep.com/tim—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, to my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim http://helixsleep.com/tim. * For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, and many more. MEDICAL DISCLAIMER: I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on the Internet. Speak with a medical professional before doing anything medical-related. FINANCIAL DISCLAIMER:I am not an investment adviser. Nor is Kevin Rose. All opinions are mine alone. Or his. There are risks involved in placing any investment in securities or in Bitcoin or in cryptocurrencies or in anything. None of the information presented herein is intended to form the basis of any offer or recommendation or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation, or needs of any specific person, and that includes you, my dear listener or reader. Everything you’re going to hear is for informational entertainment purposes only. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  Just a few quick disclaimers before we get started. The short one, Kevin and I are not doctors nor therapists, and we don't play them on the internet. We're also not giving investment advice. This episode and blog post are for informational purposes only, and nothing is intended as professional or medical advice in any capacity. Please be smart, not stupid, and be safe and get professional advice on all things we discuss. Here's a slightly longer version. This podcast episode is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of information in this podcast episode or materials linked from tim.blog is at the user's and listener's own risk. The content of this episode is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

• 0:45Tim Ferriss?

  Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have, and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I am not an investment advisor. All opinions are mine alone. There are risks involved in placing any investment in securities, or in Bitcoin, or in cryptocurrencies, or in anything. None of the information presented today, or really anytime, since you might be listening to this anytime, is intended to form the basis for any offer or recommendation, or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation, or needs of any specific person. That includes you, my dear listener. So, everything you're going to hear is for informational entertainment purposes only. And with that said, please enjoy.

• 1:30Tim Ferriss?

  This podcast episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. Sleep is super important to me. In the last few years, I've come to conclude it is the end-all, be-all, that all good things, good mood, good performance, good everything, seem to stem from good sleep. So I've tried a lot to optimize it. I've tried pills and potions, all sorts of different mattresses, you name it. And for the last few years, I've been sleeping on a Helix Midnight Luxe mattress. I also have one in the guest bedroom, and feedback from friends has always been fantastic. It's something that they comment on. Helix Sleep has a quiz, takes about two minutes to complete, that matches your body type and sleep preferences. To the perfect mattress for you.

• 2:12Tim Ferriss?

  With Helix, there's a specific mattress for each and every body. That is your body, also your taste. So let's say you sleep on your side in like a super soft bed. No problem. Or if you're a back sleeper who likes a mattress that's as firm as a rock, they've got a mattress for you too. Helix was selected as the number one best overall mattress pick of 2020 by GQ Magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. Just go to helixsleep.com/tim, take their two-minute sleep quiz, and they'll match you to a customized mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. They have a 10-year warranty and you get to try it out for 100 nights, risk-free. They'll even pick it up from you if you don't love it. And now, my dear listeners, Helix is offering up to $200 off of all mattress orders

• 2:55Tim Ferriss?

  and two free pillows at helixsleep.com/tim. These are not cheap pillows either, so getting two for free is an upgraded deal. So that's up to $200 off and two free pillows at helixsleep.com/tim. That's H E L I X, sleep.com/tim for up to $200 off. So, check it out one more time. Helix, H E L I X, sleep.com/tim.

• 3:29Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Tonal. Imagine having an entire gym's worth of equipment in a device smaller than a flat-screen TV. Something that could fit potentially even in a closet. Fits in my closet. By eliminating traditional weights, Tonal can deliver 200 pounds of resistance with a sleek design that can fit nearly anywhere. It's like having an entire gym and personal trainer right in your home. Tonal's patented digital weight system senses your strength and adjusts the weight automatically in real time, so you can get the most out of every workout. I have a number of friends, including competitive athletes, who have doubled their strength in short order in a lot of exercises. And part of the reason that's possible is it uses a revolutionary system of dynamic resistance powered by electric motors for strength you can feel.

• 4:14Tim Ferriss?

  You can also do things like eccentrics. Over time, Tonal learns from your body and automatically increases the Exactly when you can handle it. Tonal also uses 17 sensors to provide real time feedback on your form and technique, allowing you to get the most effective workout every time. It's a strength training machine with adjustable arms that provides more than 170 exercises for a full body workout. And that can include squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead pulls, bicep curls, and more. So check it out. Try Tonal, the smartest home gym for 30 days in your home. Tonal is so confident that you'll love it, they offer a full money back guarantee. You can now get Tonal from $63 per month at 0% interest over 48 months.

• 4:59Tim Ferriss?

  Visit www.tonal, that's T O N A L dot com. And for a limited time, get $100 off when you use promo code TIM100 at checkout. That's www.tonal.com promo code TIM100, T I M one zero zero. Tonal, be your strongest.

• 5:21Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Can I answer your personal question?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  No, we're just seeing an appropriate time.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 5:43Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, Kevins and toasters. This is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of The Random Show, episode number 1374. My guest today, as always, is Kevin Rose. Mr. K. Rose, how are you, sir?

• 6:00Speaker 03

  Dude, it is, uh, I'm so glad we finally got a chance to hang, you know?

• 6:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  We went through that trip together. It had been so long. And we finally, you know, now that we're all vaxxed and whatnot, had a chance to hang out in Marfa, Texas. We could talk about that stuff later.

• 6:16Tim Ferriss?

  You should, you should. You're teasing it. So you might as well just describe for folks what we ended up doing. It was, it was a lot of fun. It was a great time. It was also just fun to. Crash together, me on the couch.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you tried to get in the bed.

• 6:33Tim Ferriss?

  I did. I tried to snuggle into bed. It was freezing. And then, uh, well, we should provide some more context, but I will just say that Kevin's like, you got the couch. I'm like, that's fine. I can crash on the couch. And I was like, where are the blankets? And we found basically like some towels and it got down to like mid 40s at night. I was dying. And then the very last day, I was like, are you sure you checked everywhere? He's like, yeah, I checked everywhere. And I'm like, what about these drawers? I pulled them out under the bed. I'm like, you fucker. There are comforters everywhere. So it was, uh, it was good. Good shared privation. Or I wasn't actually shared. It was isolated Tim privation, but that's okay.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. There must've been some health benefit from doing that cold. It's like a cold plunge at night for you. Basically is what you're doing.

• 7:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's great. It's great. Yeah, it was fantastic. But what the hell were we doing in Marfa, Texas? And why is Marfa, Texas noteworthy? I can also chime in.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  So yeah, we were out at Marfa, Texas, which for those that of you that don't know, it's kind of in the middle of nowhere. It is quite the trek to get out there. And so we had a little easier time getting out there, but we, we got out there and it was the Art Blocks Conference. And so they were doing their first kind of kickoff event. They have a house out there. For those of you that don't know, Art Blocks is a NFT generative art platform. So they were the very first generative platform, meaning that artists come in, they write code that creates art. So the code actually, you don't know what you're going to get when you're minting it. So when you come in to Art Blocks and you see a project that looks cool, because you've seen a testament,

• 8:05Speaker 03

  you go ahead and connect your wallet. And when you connect your wallet, you choose make me one of these. And then it's all random and you get some beautiful new kind of creative piece of artwork that is defined by the code that was written by the artist. So generative art's been around for quite some time, but this is the first time we've been able to kind of capture it. It's always been art installations. And now that it's captured in NFTs, this platform really took off. And you and I were like, heck, let's go check out the kickoff event and see what's going on there. And it was awesome.

• 8:36Tim Ferriss?

  I said, Kevin, heck, let's get out of here.

• 8:41Tim Ferriss?

  What the heck? This is exciting. Kevin Rose.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  I'm keeping it PG.

• 8:46Tim Ferriss?

  That was good. You're ready to move to Utah.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  We had fun though, dude. Like there was, it felt like early South by, didn't it? Remember, you know, South by, early South by Southwest.

• 8:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it felt like, it felt like South by Interactive 2007, to be really specific, where you could tell there were the seeds of something that was going to grow to be much larger. But it was still being largely as a phenomenon. It wasn't even considered a phenomenon. It was sort of the, the new curiosity that wasn't taken terribly seriously, if that makes any sense. And then it started to gobble up everything else in terms of interactive. And, you know, the same way that some people think NFTs will be ubiquitous in some respects with the ownership economy. And I should say also for people who are listening to this, if you're like, good Lord, is this going to be another entire episode on NFTs?

• 9:38Tim Ferriss?

  We are going to talk about NFTs, but we're going to also touch on many, many other things, including my experience with finally contracting COVID. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about all sorts of tools, biohacks, many other things, largely.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  We've got a full agenda today, all kinds of crazy stuff.

• 9:57Tim Ferriss?

  Full agenda, holiday gift ideas, and we'll cover a lot of ground. So NFTs will be part of that, but not all of that. And it was great to hang, man. It was so nice to finally be able to spend some time, just the two of us in person. It's been a very, very long time. When would you say the last time is that we were able to do that? If we think about kind of the old days, right? Just Kev, Kevin, Tim, Tim.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  My bachelor party. Remember that?

• 10:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So it's been, so it's been more than a few years at this point. I do remember that.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  You know what? We did my 40th, my 40th birthday in Japan together. That was the last time we got some real good quality time. And that was four years, four years ago, which is crazy.

• 10:41Tim Ferriss?

  Wow.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it was great. It was great to actually hang and be stupid and drink lots and lots of Sotol. Oh, speaking of which.

• 10:50Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, we should talk about what that Sotol is because I thought that was a fantastic drink and you ended up being an investor in this company that was based in Marfa, which was crazy. And then also, we should talk about the old school, we're drinking drinks now that we used to on the random show, we used to talk about what we were drinking.

• 11:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So let's check off the drinks. I'll describe Sotol first. So Sotol, S O T O L, is a really fascinating plant that is found in a few different places, certain parts of Texas, like West Texas, and also a few distinct portions of Mexico. And when you create a spirit from this, and the company in Marfa is Marfa Spirit, so it's easy to find, Marfa Spirit Co. And we had a lot of Sotol when we were there. It is taste wise, somewhere between tequila and mezcal. So the cooking process is actually very similar to mezcal, which has a smoky feel to it.

• 11:46Tim Ferriss?

  And that's actually what I'll be drinking today is some mezcal. So I'll just show what I'm drinking today. This is Aquino Mas, Aquino Mas from Oaxaca, which is a artisanal mezcal. And it is,

• 12:06Tim Ferriss?

  it is dot, dot, dot. We'll find out. This was a gift from a friend because he knows that I like mezcal and he brought this back. So this is what I'll be drinking today. But what we had were at least two different types of Sotol when we were in Marfa. And we also had Marfa Spirits Sotol that has been aged in, I want to say rum barrels, which gave it an incredible flavor. So that was a blast in Marfa. But today it is Aquino Mas from Oaxaca. What are you drinking?

• 12:38Speaker 03

  I am just having some, it's a little earlier where I am versus where you are. So I went with some champagne, actually. So I'm doing a Beacar champagne, which for me, just the rosé, I know it sounds, you know.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  It is what it is.

• 12:54Tim Ferriss?

  You live in Portland, you have Japanese slash Chinese calligraphy artwork on the, and you have a, you have a designer hypoallergenic dog on a bed behind you. So I think, I think it matches. It works.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  This is, this is the guest bedroom, but um, yeah. So I mean, dude, you know what? I, I want to just come out and say, I love champagne. Champagne is good. I'm sorry. It is just a good beverage. It's like, it doesn't spike my glucose. And I think, I, I think that Beacart for, for under a hundred dollars, like champagne's can get really expensive, obviously for under a hundred dollars. You know, I think they, it's like 60 bucks or so. It's like the best. It's fantastic. So that's my plug for Beacart. I'm not a sponsor, although if you want to sponsor me, Beacart, love that.

• 13:35Tim Ferriss?

  I'll give you, actually, I'll give people a two for one because I had two choices. I have more than two choices, but I decided to narrow it down to mezcal and then tequila. And this tequila here, which I'm not having today, but I've had before I was introduced to a few weeks ago. It's called Lalo. It's made in Lex- and made in Lexico. It's made in Mexico. L A L O. And it is 100% agave azul blanco tequila and it's from Los Altos de Jalisco. It's delicious. It has sort of a vegetal, green.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 14:08Tim Ferriss?

  Flavor to it, which is for my palate, my experience at least, pretty unusual with tequila. And I was introduced to this at a restaurant called Suerte here in Austin.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Is that a blanco?

• 14:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it is. And well, it's agave azul blanco. So I guess it is a blanco. Yeah, blanco tequila.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  You know, we had Marfa, we had, uh, dragonas, which we both love. Casa, uh, Casa dragonas. That is a fantastic tequila.

• 14:35Tim Ferriss?

  That's also a great tequila. So thank you, Chinati Foundation. Or I just thank you, Casa dragonas for probably sponsoring the Chinati Foundation, uh, weekend, at least that event. So that was, that was a rare opportunity. You know, they were just like serving Casa dragonas out of a booth. And to everyone who was there, I was like, you know, even if you don't love tequila, you should go try that because it's like $300 a bottle and they're just pouring it like it's water. So you should try some.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  It's funny, you and I showed up this basically, I mean, it was like a buffet, right? Like, you know, we showed up at this event and it's like a buffet with a bunch of people. And it's in the middle of nowhere, you know, this field and shit with buildings falling down all around. And, and, and we're like, I'm looking, I'm like, there's dragonas. Holy shit. And like you and I look at each other and we're like, we need to just go tap into that. That's like free money right there because that stuff's expensive. And you just like started to hit the free dry cones. I was like, I'm gonna go see if they can make it neat because remember they were like making mixed drinks. I'm like, I just want like to pour this on like a little flask and take it home. It's a good deal.

• 15:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it was the greatest sort of asymmetry between value on your plate for food and value in your drink. It was

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like a all garden salad with like a $300 tequila pairing.

• 15:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it was awesome. It was great. Kevin, where should we, where should we start? I feel like maybe since we are talking about booze, this leads right into biohacking. But we can start really anywhere you want to start, but why don't you jump into that? Because you have, you've been doing more experimentation, or at least voluntary experimentation than I have recently.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I will say first and foremost that you, I mean, you've obviously had Peter T. on your show many, many times. When we mentioned these crazy biohacks, always best to go back to his podcast and refer to these episodes where he talks about these in great detail because.

• 16:28Tim Ferriss?

  Even better to talk to your own doctor. Because none of this constitutes medical advice, but yes, to hear Peter's descriptions in greater length, his podcast will not disappoint on the detail side.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, I'm just a consumer. He's, you know, has real scientists that he interviews and whatnot. So for me, I've been following the news around rapamycin for a while, which is the potential. Right now, the drug is used for immune suppression in transplant patients. So if you get a new organ, high dose rapamycin is used to suppress immune system. So your body doesn't reject the organs, but they've shown that in lower doses in all different types of, you know, mice and rats. And now hopefully in dogs here pretty soon through something called the dog aging project.org, which I actually helped fund their most recent study out of the University of Washington.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  I didn't know you did that as well. That's awesome. Yeah. So, so essentially that we're hoping that this will also translate. I mean, they've already shown improvements in, in dog cardiovascular health and aging dogs. And it, it looks like it's working in terms of extending life in, in dogs. And the, the hope there, and Atiya will talk about this on his podcast. I mean, he's been taking it for a couple of years now, a low dose. The hope there is that it'll actually extend life in humans as well. So I decided to try an eight week cycle of it. I did it. People vary on what they believe is the correct dosage and the correct duration and whether you should cycle it or not.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  And there's a bunch of just unknowns right there. So I just wanted to see what it would do. If I'd noticed anything different, like I had some knee joint pain in my right knee that hadn't gone away for a few months. That went away, but you know, I stopped it. The barnacles on your right testicle. You told me that. They're gone now. Yeah. Clean as a whistle. Like a couple of boiled eggs down there. Just beautiful.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  This is what happens when we introduce champagne.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  Be a car champagne people that goes straight to the head.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  I'm sure they want to sponsor the next episode. Okay. So the dog aging project, uh, you know, I figured, well, Mr. Toast, uh, who's sitting behind me on the video, you know, he's looking so alive right now. He's like, he looks like he's dead. Looks like a tuna fish laid out on the beach. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, Toaster is 11 now, and I decided like, let's get him on the dose that they're using in the dog aging project. And I'm not joking to him, like there is a absolute difference, absolute difference. Like Dara and I will tell you that he jumps. So he didn't, you know, he's having some hip issues as he's getting older, like his hips like kind of slip out from underneath him from time to time.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  It doesn't help that we have concrete floors and it makes it a little more slippery for him, but he's jumping up on people now when they come in the house and, and including us. And just the level of excitement and kind of energy and everything else that's come out of him. And he's been on it for about two months now. It is working. So I have no doubt that those early studies around cardiovascular health and obviously that will extend dog life to, to a certain extent. So we'll see what it is, whether it's 5% or 10% or 20% or whatever it may be. I think we powered the study now to what? Detect up to 20%? Is that right? I had to look and see what, cause that was the original, the additional funds that we recently put in or that I recently put in. I don't know if you were a part of the original funding or the add on.

• 19:47Tim Ferriss?

  Good question. Yeah, this is all through the foundation. I'd have to go back and look.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:51Tim Ferriss?

  But the, how did you feel? Did you notice anything? Subjectively, obviously, who knows? You're not doing a placebo-controlled trial.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  The only thing was that my right knee was bugging me in just kind of a dull pain for many months. And that, that went away. But I mean, it's in and on, dude. That could have gone away for, so other than that, nothing.

• 20:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's so tricky with this stuff, right? Because, and we'll talk about my COVID experience later, but whenever you take something, there's this phenomenon of regression to the mean, right? Which is when you are at your worst, this is not a perfect example with the knee, but like when you are feeling your worst, you're likely to throw the kitchen sink or everything in the kitchen sink at something. And that is also frequently when you are at the peak, after which you begin to regress to the mean, which is kind of your normal baseline. So it's really hard to determine causality, but great that your knee isn't bothering you.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And then I stopped it and four weeks later, I just had a steroid shot in my shoulder today. I think I tore something in my shoulder, but that's, you know, just getting old. One thing I will say, and because there's going to be a ton of people asking this question. I have an older dog. How do I get my dog on this? There is a study, you can go to the dogageproject.org. You can apply to be in that study, but the easier way, honestly, is to talk to your vet and have the vet go to the project, go to the site. They have dosing instructions for what they're using in the study. And under a vet's supervision, if they're willing to do it, and some will, including my vet out here, once I explained everything, you can prescribe it off-label to dogs. And so Toaster takes two milligrams a week

• 21:32Speaker 03

  for his body weight. And you know, that's going to vary for your dog, and I'm not a veterinarian, but talk to your vet, show them the project and they might roll the dice with you. But so far, so good with Toast. And you know, I'd just love to get the next three years out of Toast. Like that would be the most, you know, this is like your family.

• 21:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. How old is Toast right now again?

• 21:52Speaker 03

  11.

• 21:53Tim Ferriss?

  11. Yeah.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:54Tim Ferriss?

  I feel you, man. Molly's seven. And I would imagine, but I don't know enough about the science to say this with any confidence, that like many things, the earlier the intervention, the more likely you are to kind of avert different icebergs. And I would have to imagine that's the case, but that's a question for the scientists.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:12Tim Ferriss?

  Suffice to say, I would love to see Toast around for a much, much longer time. I remember in one of the very first random shows, when he was a little puppy, chewed through our microphone cables when we did it in person in San Francisco. Do you remember that?

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Toaster was, Toaster was the, the king of chewing through cables. He chewed through a power cable that was not plugged in one time. We came home and it was like, he had gone all the way through. I was like, that would have been the end of him. He was, at that time, he was like 10 pounds. We'd have come back to just like a fried toast.

• 22:47Tim Ferriss?

  Fried toast. Uh, so what other, what other experiments have you been doing?

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Oh, so dude, I've got a couple crazy things. So I've, I've been playing, you know, it's like you, you go through these, these times when you don't do any biohacking stuff and then you go, go deep. And I started a new drug called Ozempic. And the reason I did this is a couple of reasons. One, I've always had poor glucose control. So when I did a glucose tolerance test, which is basically you go to your doctor, they make you drink a hundred percent glucose, like a pure sugar drink. And then they draw your blood and they check your insulin levels and your glucose levels. And they check it every 30 minutes for like two hours. And they want to see, how high does it get? And how long does it stay that high? And how quickly do you return back to your baseline? And mine, I've always had what's called bad, poor glucose disposal. And Atiya was the first to detect this in

• 23:36Speaker 03

  me. And there's a bunch of stuff you can do. You can do zone two cardio, you can sensitize your muscles. Like you can do a lot of things that will, will suck up glucose and get you back quicker. But there was this drug that came out called Ozempic, and it's been out for a while now, that does a few things. One, it helps lower glucose, which is great. It is, is a subcutaneous injection. So it's a little tiny pin that you get, they send it to you, you know, you get it from Pharmacy, you push this little pin against your stomach and you don't even feel it because it goes in a quarter of an inch. It does a little tiny injection of 0.25 milligrams. But they also showed that it reduced, there was a 39% reduction in a non-fatal stroke and a 26% relative risk reduction of a major cardiac event, which on my family's side, my dad and my

• 24:21Speaker 03

  grandfather both died from heart disease and heart attacks and what was heart attack on my dad and the stroke in my grandpa. And so for me, while I'm not diabetic, it's a no brainer. And guess, get this, the number one side effect is weight loss. And so I've had a couple buddies that I have one, one buddy that's been on for seven months, lost 15 pounds of belly fat and looks great now. Another buddy just started a couple of months ago, lost like, has lost five pounds of belly fat. And I like those Portland beers. And I was just like, this is going to be a great little like, you know, nice little trimming, you know, if I, if I can get that benefit as well. So, but I will say there are side effects that are unpleasant as well. So let me tell you.

• 25:03Tim Ferriss?

  It's not just like magical bitcoins appear in your wallet and your penis gets larger and you lose belly fat. Sounds great.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  I mean, if you find that drug, I'm in. But, um, so this one's tricky because a lot of doctors will prescribe it at 0.5 milligrams versus 0.25. And at 0.5, you get some nausea for the first couple of days and it's intermittent. So it's not like nonstop nausea. But what some doctors do, including mine, is a slow ramp. So I started 0.25 and you do it for about four weeks and then you go up to 0.5 then with the goal of getting to one milligram once a week. And so that's exciting. I'm really excited for Ozempic. That's so a couple of other really quick ones unless do you have any throw in? Have you been trying anything new?

• 25:49Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I have been trying things new, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna save that for the COVID. The category of COVID. Yes. Please continue.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  All right. So a couple of other things. Fantastic article, which we can put in the show notes from the Atlantic where they did, they found the Prozac of the Middle Ages is what they called it. And so back in the Middle Ages. There used to be, they found out there were these nuns that used to get high off of taking saffron. So saffron, like you have in cooking food, is a very potent happy drug. And they used to have these people called these croakers, who are these people that they harvest saffron. And they would have to take a break when they were packaging the saffron to avoid getting the giggles because they would laugh so much from just packaging and smelling the

• 26:38Speaker 03

  stuff. And so saffron is super, it's almost like a, yeah, it's almost like a happy drug, like a Prozac. But, so I was doing some research and I was like, okay, maybe they'll have it in supplement form. I found some like shady stuff on Amazon. I was like, I'm not gonna do this. But this company, I finally found one that I trust is Ollie Brand, O-L-L-Y. You've probably seen it before. You can link it up in your show notes. They call it the Happy Gummy Worms. And they offer gummy worms now that are infused with saffron with a good enough dose to get you a little bit of that, that happy feeling like this.

• 27:11Tim Ferriss?

  A little bit of the crockies, a little bit of the crockies.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  A little bit of the crockies. So that's fun to play with. And then the last one is-

• 27:18Tim Ferriss?

  I remember from Four Hour Chef that good saffron, really good saffron is very expensive.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  That was, yes, 100%. By weight, it's more expensive than gold, which is crazy. Do you know Zach Williams at all? Have you ever met Zach?

• 27:33Tim Ferriss?

  Zach Williams, maybe. Wait a second. I think I have, in the Bay Area.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, Robin Williams' son.

• 27:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if we've ever met in person. So I shouldn't, I shouldn't say, but there's a good chance that we've, we've bumped into each other at some point.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, he's definitely in some, some similar friend circles. But Zach's just a fantastic human. And after his father, Robin Williams, passed away, he became obsessed with mental health and trying to figure out things that he could do that could improve people's wellbeing. And he came out with these moochews called PYM. They're on Amazon. You can link them in your show notes. But it's actually a really basic, basic thing. It's just GABA, L-theanine, and rhodiola, which is all these kind of like really stress, like anti-anxiety type moochews. And he sent me some and I didn't try them for a while. And then Daria was like, I want to try some of these. And my wife, she got hooked on them. She's like, these are amazing. She's like,

• 28:27Speaker 03

  I don't even, she takes them and she's like, I don't even want to drink anymore. She's like, once ever she wants a glass of wine, she'll like just take a couple. Yeah. And you know,

• 28:34Tim Ferriss?

  That's wild.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  The juice. Yeah. Well, she still drinks, but.

• 28:39Tim Ferriss?

  Not 10 a.m. on Tuesday.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Right, exactly. So that they're that good 10 a.m. chew. But they're actually, they're awesome. And you know, I gotta give Zach is like in this for the right reasons. He's not putting any funky weird ingredients in it. And you know, he's just such a good human. I wanted to give him a shout out because.

• 28:55Tim Ferriss?

  That's great. I will say also that I am a big fan of L-theanine for a number of reasons. It's, it's really helpful for, in some respects, taking the edge off of coffee consumption. So if you have a tendency.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  With coffee.

• 29:10Tim Ferriss?

  Well, that's what I mean. So if you have a tendency to perhaps over caffeinate and get into the kinda creepy crawly, train spotting end of the spectrum, then the L-theanine can help minimize some of that. Rodeola is very interesting for developing endurance and for endurance output also. That one is interesting on multiple levels. Do you have any idea why it's called PYM?

• 29:35Speaker 03

  I believe that's his middle name.

• 29:37Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:40Tim Ferriss?

  Dig it.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  So, yeah.

• 29:42Tim Ferriss?

  Well, we'll link to that in the show notes. PYM, Original Mood Chews. You can find them on Amazon.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  It was, it was something like, and it was also, he baked it in the supplement. It was something like, something your mood, like prove your mood or improve. I can't remember what it was, but he also put it in the name of the, the actual chew itself. There, he had a double meaning for it.

• 29:59Tim Ferriss?

  I like simple interventions or simple supplements that have two or three variables. Because otherwise, if it's just a laundry list of 27 things, especially, and I say this as someone who knows this industry pretty well. If it's a proprietary blend, so you don't know the actual ratios of these ingredients, it's very hard, if not impossible, to determine what is doing what.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:25Tim Ferriss?

  Whereas if you have three, at the very least, if you then wanted to try to determine for yourself, which of those three was having an impact or not, right? There are ways to actually placebo blind as an N of one, as a single subject. People can just look up quantified self and blinding or placebo control.

• 30:47Tim Ferriss?

  To learn more about that, but you could actually do a deep dive on each of those three and further test to try to determine for yourself, but which is not possible if you're just getting something with 30 or 40 or 50 ingredients, which you do see in some cases.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're right. You'll see these proprietary blends and there's like no, no clue how much they, they don't list any amounts in there. There's just like 30 ingredients.

• 31:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, not very helpful. As I've learned, I keep giving these teasers. I will say that when I was diagnosed with COVID, the very first thing I realized is if I were to take the advice of everyone sending me advice right now, I would almost certainly die of several dozen contraindications.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  Dude, what was the, what was, just give me a little taste before we get into it. What was the weirdest thing somebody told you to do?

• 31:39Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, not the whale thing that I joked about. Well, we were, I have to, I have to just say that we were joking about whale semen, I think gargling with whale semen or something, or you said that I want to give you proper credit. And then I was joking with another friend of mine who asked me the same question. He's like, what's the, what's the best advice you've received? And I said, well, I think somebody told me to gargle with horse semen. I used horse semen. And he said, actually, it'd be great if after you recover, you talk about this seriously as like an April Fools joke, because people would be jerking off horses around the planet. It would be the best prank ever. I did not end up deciding that would be a good idea. But I mean, the

• 32:19Tim Ferriss?

  most harebrained kind of craziness you can imagine. I mean, every alternative remedy possible. So you pick it. There was a recommendation, right? It just, it kind of doesn't matter. And we can come back to this, but it's, it is interrelated with the problem of determining, not just determining causation, but avoiding contraindications, which is really, really, really important. So we'll come back to that. And part of the reason I keep delaying this, folks, if they're just like, why the tease? Why the tease? Because people get crazy on both sides. I've noticed that the people on far ends of the sort of conspiracy spectrum or on the political

• 33:00Tim Ferriss?

  spectrum are kind of like a horseshoe when it comes to COVID. They like bend around towards each other and they actually get very, very similar. So there's no way for me not to upset people when I talk about COVID and the various steps that I took and so on. I'm excited to hear this. Yeah, we'll say it. We'll delay it. We'll save it. But and it may be a disappointing punchline for folks, but that's why we're pushing off because we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about. I will say, let me throw something in related, which was when I was isolating. So as soon as I was diagnosed, I ended up isolating about 24 hours or 36 hours later. First sequestered myself upstairs.

• 33:42Tim Ferriss?

  My girlfriend stayed downstairs and then I ended up isolating myself in a separate location so that my girlfriend wouldn't get sick. And I found comedians in cars getting coffee to be an incredible.

• 34:01Tim Ferriss?

  Cure my COVID grandma. No, it's not a cure. I found it to be extremely psychologically helpful and a real gem of a discovery when I was stuck in this apartment by myself for 10 days. And so I would make a habit of watching two or three episodes when I got up and two or three episodes if I got really tired, you know, two or three episodes right before bed. And it allowed me to, obviously in a synthetic way, but to interact with people and to feel like I was socializing on some level. I loved it. So I really. Really, really applaud Jerry Seinfeld for first and foremost, designing a format for

• 34:45Tim Ferriss?

  himself that's the most fun and ease he could possibly have in putting together a show. And for people who don't know the format, he basically gets to drive, he likes classic cars and cars in general. So he gets to drive an incredible classic car, different classic car every episode. And he goes to pick up one of his friends to go get coffee and bullshit and talk about comedy and life and so on. And it gets cut down to 17 minutes. It's just a genius format. After coming out of the show Seinfeld in the 90s, which was, I don't want to say a death march, that's too severe, but it's so much work, right?

• 35:26Tim Ferriss?

  So much incredible work to put that show together and to sustain it for that long. So to do the opposite and create a format that is really fun, really easy, an excuse to hang out with your friends, kind of like the random show, quite frankly, it was great. So I really recommend people check out comedians and cars getting coffee. I watched it on Netflix. Bob Einstein is probably my favorite episode. That's super Dave. Larry David, also amazing. Sarah Silverman, always incredible. Gary Shandling, a lot of old timers, some of which are no longer with us, are kind of captured for posterity. So highly recommend comedians and cars getting coffee.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Speaking of things that just make you feel good, have you watched Ted Lasso?

• 36:09Tim Ferriss?

  I have not watched Ted Lasso yet. It's been recommended at least 1,001 times to me and I haven't watched it yet.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  Tim and everyone else that hasn't watched it and everyone that has watched is screaming right now, yes, please, Tim, watch this. You have to see Ted Lasso. It is really, really good.

• 36:26Tim Ferriss?

  It is on the to watch list. What my girlfriend and I have been slowly chipping away at when we watch something short together, because we're not always. In the mood to watch something that's 90 minutes or two hours long, like a feature film. So we'll watch Schitt's Creek and we're making our way through all the seasons of Schitt's Creek, which is amazing. But Ted Lasso, I remember polling on social at one point, like what series should I binge watch next? It needs to be of a certain length and it needs to be first and foremost feel good, right? Like if you get your, if you just get your face kicked in during the day, this is something you would look forward to watching after such a day. And Ted Lasso was

• 37:10Tim Ferriss?

  probably the most consistent recommendation.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Dude, you, you have to do this like tonight, like seriously. It is, it is really, it's funny. Like when you think of like, for me, I'm not like a soccer fan or, you know, football, as they call it in some parts of the world.

• 37:26Tim Ferriss?

  Football.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  I'm just not a fan. I, I'm not that I couldn't get into it, but it's just like not from, it's not about that. It's, it's about the relationships and, and it's funny and sweet and it's endearing. Like there's, there's a lot to love. Anyway.

• 37:39Tim Ferriss?

  I'm into it. I'm into it.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  Sweet.

• 37:45Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Today, many small business owners like me are busier than ever. Time spent searching for and interviewing candidates can take time away from managing and most importantly, growing your business. That's why LinkedIn Jobs has made it easier to get to the candidates worth interviewing faster and for free. Create a free job post in minutes on LinkedIn Jobs to reach your network and beyond to the world's largest professional network of more than 770 million people. Focus on candidates with the skills and experience you need and use screening questions to get your role in front of only the most qualified people. Then use the simple tools on LinkedIn Jobs to quickly filter and

• 38:28Tim Ferriss?

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• 39:02Tim Ferriss?

  All right, Keros, what other, what other news, what other exciting updates, findings would you like to share?

• 39:09Speaker 03

  I have one last, one last NFT thing, and I promise we won't talk about NFTs because you and I are both got the sickness.

• 39:15Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, but you're, you're doing a great job. I feel like I am doing a very junior varsity job. I feel like you have sort of full spectrum expertise. I'm very impressed. You're like the, you're like a decathlete of NFTs right now.

• 39:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, I've been very impressed with your, with your shot put especially.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  I think you and I are both kind of, tell me if this is true for you. I think it is. Like, I like to go, well, it's definitely true for me. I like to go light on a lot of different things until I get hooked on something and then I go really, really deep. If I get the hook. Yeah.

• 39:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so NFTs, I got the, I got the hook. But anyway, I guess there's a couple of things to mention. One, people should be aware of just an overarching trend that's happening in NFTs that is without a doubt the future. So it's just important that, that people should know about this. Like Sarah Jessica Parker just launched an NFT for her wine. And at first you think, everyone that thinks about NFTs, they think about, these are just pictures, they're photos, they're JPEGs, they're being captured in the blockchain, they're, people are trying to pretend they're art or whatever, and they're selling them. And they don't necessarily think about actually the technology and how it can be applied to different things. And what they have done with her wine company and what she has done

• 40:36Speaker 03

  that's really impressive is they've used NFTs as utilities. And so what I mean by that is if you collect one of her wine NFTs, it's not about saying this is a piece of art I'm going to hold in my home. It's about showing ownership over membership of something. So it's a membership to her wine clubs. You get your wine allocation based on the fact that you actually hold one of these NFTs. So that may sound boring, but if you think about it, it's really interesting in that now that can be resold to someone else. Let's say I buy an allocation of her wine.

• 41:14Tim Ferriss?

  That was going to be my main question, not to interrupt, but I will. Yeah, you could, like wine clubs have existed for a long time, right? Or you have like Soho House and you have memberships. So people have figured out how to have exclusive memberships. So is the? Unique aspect of this that the sale of that NFT cannot, or in this case, isn't being constrained.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Right. Exactly. Well, we'll think of it this way. Okay. So let's think about some of the most scarce things in the wine world and, and let's talk about Napa Valley for a second. There are two wineries that are far and above like the cult, like hottest wineries in Napa Valley. It's Screaming Eagle and it's Harlan Estate. And I say that with a slight conflagration on the advisory board of Harlan Estate, but these, well, it's fantastic wine. It really is. It's, there's, everyone would agree with that statement that's in the wine world.

• 42:04Tim Ferriss?

  It is.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Now imagine you-

• 42:07Tim Ferriss?

  Don't exclude me just because I'm not in the wine world. I enjoy Harlan Estate.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know what? You know what's up.

• 42:12Tim Ferriss?

  It's usually when I'm just riding on your coattails, but that's okay.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  But imagine Harlan, you know, let, we'll just take Screaming Eagle because I don't want to shill my own stuff here. So Screaming Eagle is, I believe it's around $4,000 a bottle right now, which is just madness, right? But the waitlist to get on their actual allocation is something like 20 to 30 years. So that means if you go to their website today and say, I want to sign up for your wine program, it's going to take you 20 to 30 years to even get considered to be offered an allocation. And that's not just because they're being dicks. It's actually a very small producer. So they don't have a lot of wine to sell. So they have to wait for people to come off of that waitlist.

• 42:51Tim Ferriss?

  Now, in fairness, they could expand production if they wanted, but they know how to constrain supply because it's ultra-premium, right?

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Well, yes and no, but they, they have this hillside that is very, has very specific climate, very specific soil conditions, like that you can't just grow that without compromising some quality, right?

• 43:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  So there's other ways you could do a sub-brand or something like that. You could expand it. They actually have one called Second Flight, which is like their smaller, less expensive $500 bottle kind of sub-brand type thing. So imagine membership is no longer about someone retiring and the new person coming on, but about it being a liquid environment. So if I had a membership, I'm like, Tim, I want to get rid of my Screaming Eagle membership. I bought it when this NFT was a hundred dollars 10 years ago. And now what would that cost? I bet you that membership would go for 25, $50,000 or more. And so now that can be resold and-

• 43:44Tim Ferriss?

  Screaming Eagle?

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:45Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, minimum. Are you kidding me?

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 43:48Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, if the bottle costs four grand, it's just bragging.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:50Tim Ferriss?

  I shouldn't say just, but a lot of the value is in bragging rights, right?

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:54Tim Ferriss?

  Just having access. So somebody, there's no ceiling for what someone could spend.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  So now here's the crazy thing. When I sell that to like, let's say I sell it to you. Because of what's written into the code and the smart contract behind the scenes for the NFT, 10% of that sale could go back to the manufacturer, just to the producer. So they are in essence, the artist receiving a commission on the resale of their membership. So this is going, these types of utility NFTs are going to be coming. And it's not just going to apply to wine. It can be applied to individual objects as well. You can imagine no longer waiting in line for some crazy Supreme drop or some Yeezys sneaker drop. You get the NFT instead, and then price discovery happens in the secondary market via NFTs.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  And then if you decide to destroy the NFT, you'll actually get shipped the actual shoes from the manufacturer, gets rid of fraud at the same time. It's amazing.

• 44:50Tim Ferriss?

  Destroy, meaning you're sending it to a wallet that is known to be inaccessible.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Well, what you would do is let's say, for example, that, and this doesn't exist today, but it will in the near future. So this is coming. Let's say you have a limited edition Air Jordan NFT, right? And you're like, I actually want this pair of shoes. You bought it in the secondary market. It started selling. Nike sold it for $250. You bought it for a thousand. And you're like, it's going for 2000, but I actually want the pair. So rather than have to go on eBay or any of the secondary marketplaces and figure out, are these legit shoes? I know there's, there's other places that are clearing houses to determine whether or not they're legit, but you could go direct to Nike and say, Nike, here's my wallet. I'm going to connect my actual cryptocurrency wallet. Here's my NFT. So I proved that I have the rights to one of these pairs of shoes.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Now take my NFT and you will destroy it. And in return, you'll present me with a form where I put in my shipping address and you'll actually ship me the physical shoes. It is so cool and it's coming. So anyway, that's a little preamble on, on what is going on in the industry. So I have a little announcement to make. So I have a podcast called Proof that is all about covering the NFT space. And I've been lucky to have a pretty decent audience. We're up to 250,000 downloads per episode now, which is just crazy for the NFT world. And I'm going to be offering a utility NFT to these listeners. So I'm gonna do 1,000 NFTs in total that are utility and they will unlock

• 46:21Speaker 03

  early access to podcasts, a private collector's only Discord, and unfortunately, a bunch of perks that I have planned, but I can't talk about. I talked to some legal counsel and they always say, don't promise things like over deliver, but don't make any outrageous promises. But rest assured, I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure that this membership is just awesome. But Tim, I don't want this to be a commercial. I think this is gonna apply to all podcasts, dude. Like, I think that there's a world where in my mind, I don't know, you might cut this out. You might cut this out if I say it, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Don't cut it out.

• 46:56Tim Ferriss?

  You do this every other random show and I usually keep it in. Go ahead. We'll see.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  I would buy one of your NFTs, just not to hear your ads, dude. Like, if I could, if I could get a Tim utility NFT, cut out the ads, get access to episodes and behind the scenes, like additional extended footage. This is where things are gonna go. Like, you'll hold something and whoever the creator is, is gonna provide additional benefits, additional things for their audience. I'm telling you, in the next two years, you'll see so many podcasts adopting this type of model, not just podcasts, but sites in general, will be adopting this type of model.

• 47:35Tim Ferriss?

  So if someone buys KevKev NFT.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  It's called Proof, the Proof NFT. But yes, I love that you're trying to rename it KevKev.

• 47:44Tim Ferriss?

  So, so when people buy the Proof KevKev NFT, they could also flip that and sell that six months later to give someone else the same access.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  That's right. You sell the NFT off to someone else and then they immediately receive all the perks going forward from that point.

• 47:59Tim Ferriss?

  You're such a crafty little monkey. You really are.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  You're gonna be doing this. You know this could be applicable to what you're doing.

• 48:05Tim Ferriss?

  I know it could be. Quite honestly, I feel like I've been. Thinking and cogitating and meditating on this too long. And honestly, the novelty of all of this will have worn off by the time I do anything. And therefore I have less interest. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I'm curious to hear from you. Why do this? You have a great life, great setup, got plenty of things to keep you busy. Why do this? Of all things that you could do? Like, what do you get out of this? I mean, of course, you could get income from the initial sales of the Kev Kev. I'm kidding.

• 48:44Tim Ferriss?

  The proof NFT, but there has to be other reasons. So why are you doing this?

• 48:51Speaker 03

  This is at my core. It's one of the the proof podcast is probably since Dignation. It is in, you know, obviously our show.

• 48:59Tim Ferriss?

  We do hear a random show.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  Stinger. Oh, stinger. No, I would say it's the most fun that I've ever had, dude. Like, I'm, I think we're both in this boat of like, being creative people. I love building things. I've been a builder and an entrepreneur for many times over.

• 49:14Tim Ferriss?

  Is this a breakup conversation? Is this the song?

• 49:18Speaker 03

  This is not the song. I'm just saying, like, the reason I want to do it is because I want to help these artists get off the ground. And I think that this is the future. I truly believe that in, you know, 100 years from now, we'll look back on Crypto Ponks and these early projects as being a changing of the guard and a brand new shift in a way to capture value. And we're in the very first innings. It's the same excitement level I got in 2004 when I started dig at the very beginning of web two. Web three has the same gut. I wake up at 5am. I can't stop thinking about things. Tim, when you were laying on my couch when we were in Martha, you said the same thing. You're like, I can't sleep.

• 49:58Tim Ferriss?

  I know. I know. I know. I couldn't sleep.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  It's so exciting. And I get, when you get that much excitement, I'm like, how can I help make this a reality? And that's what I want to do. So.

• 50:07Tim Ferriss?

  You know what? I'm going to share one of those ideas right now, because if he hasn't grabbed it by now, he should have grabbed it.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Yes, I know what you're gonna say. I love this.

• 50:18Tim Ferriss?

  So we couldn't sleep. We're thinking of all of these maybe genius, mostly half-assed, ridiculous ideas.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  We got to know what DAO is first.

• 50:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. All right. So, well, DAO has come up a couple of times on the podcast. A DAO is a, go for it. Give it a quick, give it a quick summary.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  So in the world of web three and crypto, there's something called the DAO. It's a decentralized autonomous organization. It basically means a fancy way of saying a group of people coming together, decentralized, being like independently to work on something together, work on a project together, collect NFTs together, whatever it may be. So a DAO is a very common, it's like saying like a new corporation or a new LLC. So there's all these DAOs, there's flamingo DAO, there's like meta DAO, there's neon DAO, friends with benefits.

• 51:08Tim Ferriss?

  Red DAO, million, million of them. And there are going to be a billion more of them. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. So, and you can, you can use them, or I should say, design them for many, many different purposes. And so for the few days that were in Marfa, everyone's drinking booze, we're routinely just coming up with more and more ridiculous DAOs that could be. And

• 51:30Speaker 03

  I wanted the Tim Tim DAO. The Tim Tim DAO would be huge.

• 51:33Tim Ferriss?

  Right. The Tim Tim DAO. And then I thought, I was for whatever reason, thinking of cartoons, because as you mentioned, I used to be an illustrator and paid a lot of my expenses in college as a graphic illustrator for magazines and so on. And I was thinking of cartoons and then I realized, oh my God, I need to send a text to Scott Adams. So for those who don't know, I'll actually back into it. So the DAO is called DIL DAO, D I L, D A O.

• 52:07Tim Ferriss?

  The DIL DAO would be a DAO for fans of Dilbert and one of the most successful comic strips of all time. And so I texted Scott Adams.

• 52:18Speaker 03

  You texted him.

• 52:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I texted him and I was like, trust me on this. Please just go out and buy dil dao.com, dil dot at X Y Z, something like that. And he replied, given that he hasn't heard from me in God knows, you know, three or four years, I think it was a very polite response, given the absurdity of my text. And it was something like, hi Tim, great to hear from you. I think I need a little more context.

• 52:45Tim Ferriss?

  So there you have it. Dildow. It may be taken, it may not. So the race goes to the swift. What the hell were we talking about? Oh, we were talking about Web 3 and how excited you are. And I should also say, yes, I'm very excited. I encourage people to listen to my conversation with Chris Dixon and Naval Ravikant. That really goes kind of soup to nuts with a lot of this stuff. What I would be interested to know from you is if we look at some of the benefits that you're offering, right? Like you were in a very unique, very, very unique and not accidental position at all. You have navigated the world of Web 3 and NFTs so brilliantly. I have to give credit where credit is due.

• 53:23Tim Ferriss?

  And I've said this to a number of friends of mine. I'm like, man, it's like this playing field is so perfectly designed for Kevin's superpowers. They don't apply in all places. They don't line up in all places, but like

• 53:37Speaker 03

  No, they don't.

• 53:38Tim Ferriss?

  Your weird quirks and nerdiness and superpowers all line up for this fucking weird thing called Web 3. Specifically NFTs. It's hilarious. It's just like every time I get news and I've obviously a lot of it is private. And I'm just like, of course, of course, this is working. Amazing. So congratulations and it's fun to watch. But I want to ask you what some of, let's say I did my own NFT or something along these lines. What might some of the benefits be that I would provide that would not be stripping out ads? They could be, but quite frankly, I've tested this before with memberships.

• 54:19Tim Ferriss?

  Ultimately, it turned out that most of my fans, or I shouldn't say most, but a lot of my fans recognize the vetting and selection that I do with products. They don't mind it and they would rather hear the ads than pay. That just seems to be true for the vast majority of my audience. They can fast forward. They would much prefer to let sponsors shoulder the burden of keeping the podcast going and growing than pay. Even 15 bucks a month, doesn't matter. They don't want to do it. Now, maybe that changes. Once they have an asset that could appreciate, maybe it changes. I don't know if just the economic model has some difference, but what are some other benefits that I might be able to provide?

• 54:59Tim Ferriss?

  That are not going to make me want to smash my head through a car door window because I'm like, why did I ever agree to do all of these things?

• 55:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I think on the ads thing, just touching on that briefly, there are going to be, let's just call it 50,000 people or something that are, would love to have a no ad version of your show, right? It may not be massive numbers, but there's going to be some subset of that that would be stoked. But I think, Tim, it's more about what do you do early that you don't share with the rest of us? And how can you share that back to your community of insiders? Because like, when I think about what I do is finding these early artists, it's finding these, you know, and how can I tell people about this stuff before it becomes big? And so for you, what is that crazy, I mean, not so much these days, but like in back in the day would have been like, what's the crazy bio hack that you're on? Or maybe what's the new transcript of the, of the book that you're going to

• 55:53Speaker 03

  publish, or an early galley copy that no one gets to see, or they all get to see before everyone else? Yeah, there's things that are exclusively you that you could say, here's my private discord where we do a Q and A, which is only for members, is just with you. Cause I'm sure a lot of your listeners have tons of questions you probably get via email, and you could do that in a real format where you actually get to interact with the smaller subset. Dude, I could have done 10,000 or 50,000 NFTs for this proof collective, but I wanted to keep it at a thousand, because that's a number that if I go to a city and I host a private meetup, it'll be 100 people or whatever, or 50 people, because, you know, people will be distributed all over the place. And I can manage that number and

• 56:36Speaker 03

  I can hang out and we can have conversations. So, you know, Tony Robbins does this. He has like a really high end tier of people that pay like a bigger fee.

• 56:45Tim Ferriss?

  Platinum.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so this is like access to you, access to pick your brain, your knowledge, it's a different, it's a deeper connection to you, basically.

• 56:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I suppose what I'm trying to figure out, I understand in the case of proof and modern finance, like if people, for instance, were able to listen to the podcast a week earlier, and this is not investment advice, I'm not saying this is guaranteed, but there's a possibility those people could do really well from an investment standpoint, if they really know what they're doing. There's a lot of incentive in that case. And it's not a very heavy lift for you to provide, say, a separate RSS feed that's available to a smaller subset of people. There are so many things that that I could do, right? Like, for instance, I could have something where it's like 100 people as members and they have to pay a hundred thousand dollars a year. I'm sure I could figure out a way to make that work. I could make that valuable enough just by selecting those 100 people properly. So there's value in the network.

• 57:41Tim Ferriss?

  I could make it work. I could make it worth it and worth much more financially. But I'm like, do I want to do that? I remember I thought about doing that. And then one of my friends was like, well, you could just end up babysitting billionaires who think they have 24/7 access to you.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  That's a problem.

• 57:56Tim Ferriss?

  Like, do you want that? And I'm like, no, I don't want that. So I decided not to do it.

• 58:00Speaker 03

  But that's not adding any value back. That's like just rubbing elbows with the people that are already really wealthy. Like, I think you have to go a little bit wider than that.

• 58:09Tim Ferriss?

  I would push back a little bit in the sense that I could make that very valuable in part because I could add people to the community who are not buying in. So there are ways that I could make that very, very valuable. The question for me is like, what will nourish me and not deplete me? The numbers are fun. The money's fun. Like, let's be honest, right? It's a nice, clean, obvious way of kind of putting points on the scoreboard, having them taken away. So that, I think, is understandable, right? It's sort of like the gamification of life is this thing called money beyond our kind of subsistence needs. But so what I'm wondering is like, what could I do that would actually nourish me, right? That would not-

• 58:54Speaker 03

  I know what the answer is. 100%.

• 58:56Tim Ferriss?

  Tell me.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  It's really easy. This, and this is what my approach is going to be, and it should be yours as well. When you launch a program like this, it's not about knowing. It's about trying 20 different things. And two or three of those are going to be really nourishing to you. And you're going to say, this is amazing, and I want to do more of this. And your fans will love it because you'll try a Q and A. You'll try a live event. You'll try an early podcast. You'll try a bunch of different things and all of a sudden, something will click. And it's about the experimentation. That's what Web 3 is right now.

• 59:26Tim Ferriss?

  I see. So you just have to set the expectation upfront, right? Because if you say, hey, this is an exaggeration, obviously. But if you're like, hey, I'm going to go ice skating with you at Rockefeller Center every winter.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:37Tim Ferriss?

  And then you're like, wait, I changed my mind after they buy the NFT. You're like, actually, I hate, I can't stand Tony. I don't want to go ice skating with Tony anymore. So you're gonna have to just set the expectation then, I guess upfront, like, hey, I'm gonna try a bunch of stuff. And if I'm only gonna keep doing the stuff that's fun, basically.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  And, and also, they have to know that you're Tim, you have a reputation, you're gonna deliver on something that you sell. There's no doubt. You never haven't. And I think that's the unique thing that whether it be Gary Vaynerchuk, or you, or me, we care too much about our reputation to like, grab money and run. So we're gonna deliver on this in some way. We don't know what it's gonna be. I'll try 10, 15 different things. I guarantee you there'll be some things that are gonna be, you will find that your fans will love and you'll enjoy doing.

• 1:00:23Tim Ferriss?

  Slip and slide in Manhattan. That should definitely be one.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Connect four with Tim?

• 1:00:30Tim Ferriss?

  Connect four. Connect four with Tim. That's right.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  Twister, twister.

• 1:00:36Tim Ferriss?

  Twister. Twister is the one I was going for. Yeah. So where can people learn more about the proof NFT? Is there a place to go? I guess they should just go to your Twitter handle. Where would you suggest they, they go? If they're listening to this and they're like, tell me more, Kevin Rose, how do I do this?

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  My main website for it is proof.xyz. And on the top there, there will be a link for a newsletter. If you subscribe to that newsletter, those will be the first people to know, along with Twitter, but Twitter you can miss because it can just go down, you know, the stream. But the newsletter folks will get it in their inbox.

• 1:01:06Tim Ferriss?

  And then you're in the Kevin Rose flywheel of infinite joy. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. I love it.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  By flywheel, you mean I forget to send a newsletter. I probably only send a newsletter every like, three months.

• 1:01:18Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's great. It's perfect. It's perfect. It's a very slow flywheel, but it's a flywheel.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Yes. That's right. It's like more like a tricycle.

• 1:01:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. So, couple of questions. Where did this XYZ thing start? Because that is a thing.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, the domain handle dot XYZ was co-opted by just the whole NFT and crypto movement. It just became this thing where all the dot coms were taken. It seemed too commercial. It was played out. It was old. A dot SO was big for a while, you know, notion dot SO and things like that. And for some reason, it was like, if you're web three, if you're crypto, if you're NFTs, just use dot XYZ. And everyone just like latched on to that. So that's, that's been the thing.

• 1:02:01Tim Ferriss?

  Was there someone who led that charge? Because it could have been a million other things.

• 1:02:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:02:08Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I'd love to know. I'm so fascinated by how these conventions start. You know, like, who was the person who was just like, guys, this is what we're doing? Or just had the reputation that they were the first people to do it?

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  There has to be a .nft coming soon, you would imagine. You would think. That would be a no brainer.

• 1:02:25Tim Ferriss?

  I just, I wonder about so many conventions, right? Like, back in the day when every startup ended with LY. You know what I mean? It's like Bitly, Optimizely, this LY, everything was LY. And then there's the Spotify, Shopify. Who's the first person to use the phi? Expensive phi. Oh, man. Well, I have a blockchain slash crypto update. It's not nearly as well formed as yours, but it's my first dip into the pool, in a sense, because I've always wanted to experiment first with fundraising for scientific research related to so-called intractable psychiatric conditions.

• 1:03:06Tim Ferriss?

  So, things that are thought to be incurable or almost impossible to treat with current tools. And so, as you know, Kevin, and a lot of people know, SISA Foundation, which is my foundation, and it's all my money, has committed many, many millions of dollars now to psychedelic therapy research and medicine research, helped establish centers, the first in the world at Imperial College London, the first in the US at Johns Hopkins, many studies that have done incredibly well. So, in terms of picking bets, we've had now studies that have been in Lancet, in the

• 1:03:47Tim Ferriss?

  New England Journal of Medicine, kind of sweeping the Oscars equivalent from a scientific standpoint. And I was introduced, so you mentioned art blocks earlier in this conversation, and sorry, I'm slurring my speech a little bit. It's actually not from the alcohol. We'll talk about that with COVID, but like, the losing the words is not from the booze.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  The horse semen?

• 1:04:06Tim Ferriss?

  It's mostly from, uh, it's mostly from the horse semen.

• 1:04:12Tim Ferriss?

  It's a little viscous. Taxes your vocal cords.

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  You always take it to the.

• 1:04:22Tim Ferriss?

  I just want to dial it. I just want to, just want to turn it to 11 for a second. So, God, we took it from Saisi Foundation to Horse Semen in one, one second flat. So, Snowfro, who is the founder of Art Blocks, introduced me to a nonprofit called Endowment. And this is another great name. So, E N D A O M E N T dot org, endaoment.org. And he introduced me to them because they help nonprofits accept cryptocurrency donations. And it's a very cool, you know, effectively company, I mean, organization. In this case, they have, they have a nonprofit arm.

• 1:05:04Tim Ferriss?

  I believe Giving Block is a for-profit company that takes a very different approach, but is complimentary if you're a larger organization, nonprofit, or a 501(c)(3) that wants to accept cryptocurrency, but doesn't really have the knowledge or desire to develop the expertise around crypto. This, these are two ways to do it. And so, I was introduced to Robbie and Zach at Endowment, and they helped get the Saisi Foundation set up on Endowment. So, if anybody out there is looking to back a proven player who really picks good shots within the scientific research fields, and that includes many

• 1:05:45Tim Ferriss?

  different things, but predominantly focused on psychedelic medicine and addressing things like treatment-resistant depression, opioid use disorder, so different types of addiction, and many, many other things, then you can go to Endowment, that's E N D A O M E N T dot org slash Saisi, S A I S E I.

• 1:06:09Tim Ferriss?

  We'll include a link in the show notes at tim.blog/podcast, but if you want to type the whole thing out, it's just app, A P P dot endowment dot org slash Saisai. And Saisai, I'm surprised I probably haven't mentioned this before. The name of the foundation means a whole bunch of things in Japanese. I used to live in Japan, went to a Japanese school. I love Japanese culture and Japanese language. Saisai means rebirth or to be born again. And that is how many people feel after undergoing properly administered psychedelic therapy or psychedelic assisted therapy. So that's why the name is Saisai. So people can check it out.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  That's so cool.

• 1:06:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's great. I'm excited about it and it's also a way for me to feel really good about engaging with it.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  There's a couple of things, Tim. You were so early on this and nailed it before it was cool. Like, I feel like all the universities these days are like, how do we add psychedelics to our roster? And it's like, you know, it's a snowball that kind of, I feel like in many ways you started, which is, which is awesome to see.

• 1:07:15Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, man. Thanks. Yeah, it's, uh, it's been really exciting to, really, really exciting to see a lot of what has happened in the last handful of years. And just to see how far it's come politically also, there's a lot of room left for improvement. But just last week on Veterans Day, that was November 11th, I was in Coronado, which is in San Diego, basically. And I'm pulling up my Twitter profile for a second because I can give you the actual website, which I would like to do. I was there for a benefit for vets.

• 1:07:55Tim Ferriss?

  On Twitter, it's the handle at vets for vets, but they had a strength in numbers gala to end veteran suicide. And the website for vets is vetsolutions.org. They sponsor psychedelic treatments for veterans and have a particular focus, I believe, not exclusively, but have worked with many Navy SEALs there for the location in Coronado. And the reason I bring it up is that I was onstage with Governor Rick Perry, former governor, I guess he's the 47th, I want to say, governor of Texas, former Secretary of Energy, Republican, and right next to him was Rick Doblin, founder

• 1:08:38Tim Ferriss?

  of maps.org, which is doing incredible work, including phase three trials for MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD. So they have many veterans involved with this, who is as far left as you can go, sort of hyper, and again, these are maybe exaggerated terms, but kind of like, hyper conservative, hyper liberal, sitting on the same stage, disagreeing on many things, but agreeing completely on the value of psychedelic medicine for

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 1:09:09Tim Ferriss?

  these conditions like PTSD. So it's really kind of mind blowing, pun intended, to see how we were in a scientific winter and a policy winter, basically, for 50 or 60 years after the Nixon administration. And in the last 18 months, really, last two years perhaps, there's just been this flash boil and so much has happened. So cautiously optimistic. And I do think that I say Foundation will continue to be on the forefront, seeing around corners and looking at things that are not yet on the mainstream radar at all. So I'm excited.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  That's awesome. It's great that it takes crypto. Like, anyone can, I see you, you just connect your wallet, you can donate crypto and it's good to go.

• 1:09:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And I want to give also some credit where credit is due. I ended up there because I was invited by a friend of mine, former team member named Nick Norris. So I want to thank him for inviting me to the, to participate in the event. And I also want to give thanks to all of the sponsors who supported that event, including Future Ventures. And I'm an LP in Future Ventures, but Steve and Genevieve Jervitson were there who were kind enough to host me and allow me to sit at their table. And it was just an incredible event. So I'm super excited about what is to come in, in 2022.

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  One question I had for you, a friend of mine, she recently did ketamine therapy for depression. And there's actually a startup that I'm not affiliated with at all. I don't even know the founder's called Mindbloom. Have you heard of this?

• 1:10:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Okay. So I'm, I'm very glad you brought it up. I have thoughts on Mindbloom. So continue.

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  It's interesting because what she did is she signed up for it and normally people think of ketamine as like an IV treatment that you go into a clinic and all that. And it's, you know, that's kind of hardcore to get stuck up with an IV. And, you know, you have to be a certain, some people are very like not cool with needles, right?

• 1:11:07Tim Ferriss?

  Right.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  This is actually a pill that they, there are pills that they mail to your house. They pair you with a therapist and she was saying fantastic things about it. It's kind of home therapy, only available in like a dozen or so states right now, but ketamine treatment at home. I just wanted to know what your thoughts were.

• 1:11:25Tim Ferriss?

  I started off incredibly skeptical and concerned with telemedicine as applied to psychedelic experiences. And that extended to ketamine because I do think that there are, even with some psychedelic compounds, probably with all, but to a lesser extent with some and to a greater extent with others, the potential for abuse. I had a lot of questions around telemedicine, particularly when you're dealing with remote slash virtual administration of drugs. And ketamine, for those who don't know, it's a dissociative anesthetic. It

• 1:12:08Tim Ferriss?

  is generally speaking, extremely safe. It is widely used. I believe it's one of the 100 most essential medicines as defined by the World Health Organization because as an anesthetic, it's, and again, double check everything with your doctor, but my understanding is it's famous for being inexpensive and not suppressing respiration. So it has a great risk, risk profile. And some people will say, oh, that's a horse tranquilizer. That's not really accurate. It is used in veterinary medicine, but it's very widely used in humans.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  So many horse drugs these days. There are a lot of hot horse drugs.

• 1:12:45Tim Ferriss?

  Lot of hot horse.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  Lot of horse therapy out there these days.

• 1:12:50Tim Ferriss?

  People need to take a closer look at these horses.

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  These horses got it figured out.

• 1:12:56Tim Ferriss?

  I've done everything. His horses have it all figured out. Ah, God. Yeah. So you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna share just a quick side note, which you will get, I'm pretty sure. But it's definitely, the reference is gonna be lost on a lot of people. I was sent this gif of, it's a drawing of the two arms in Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dylan, where he's like, Dylan, you son of a bitch. And they like slapped their hands together and they're basically like arm wrestling with their biceps showing. It's one like gigantic white arm, which is Arnold Schwarzenegger, and then one gigantic muscular black arm, which Carl Weathers, I believe, I mean, both incredibly jacked and they're like baby oiled up and it's

• 1:13:40Tim Ferriss?

  this like extremely long handshake just for the glamour shot. And I was sent this painting of this. And it said, and on one side I had liberal and then the, on the arm it said ketamine and then on the other side it said

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, I saw this.

• 1:13:56Tim Ferriss?

  Conservative. And then on the arm said ivermectin and then below it's like, at least we can agree on horse drugs.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:14:04Tim Ferriss?

  So technically not accurate, but it was still pretty funny. So

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  I saw that as well. That's great.

• 1:14:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Do you know ivermectin actually is, I believe, used by many people suffering from psoriasis? I want to say it's psoriasis. It might be rosacea. It's either psoriasis or rosacea. And because of all of the buzz around ivermectin, one of the casualties has been that people who really need it for known indications are having increased trouble procuring it. Kind of wild to, to think about. In any case, someone will be able to fact check that on the internet. Shall we talk about COVID? What do you think?

• 1:14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's do it, dude. Now's the time.

• 1:14:46Tim Ferriss?

  Now's the time. All right. So

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  So wait, wait, wait. I got a text from Tim. It's two COVID tests. It's, it's me, you're texting me and Sokka. I think we can say that. And it's two, it's two COVID tests and it's like, they're both clear red lined. I mean, you didn't say fuck, but you were just like, shit, like this, this happened.

• 1:15:05Tim Ferriss?

  Here we go.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  What, what was the first, like, walk me through it. Like you just woke up one morning and was like, I just don't feel right. Or what happened?

• 1:15:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll walk you through it. So this is about two and a half weeks ago now, I want to say, something like that. And it was, if I look back, as you know, I've been very, very careful. And so careful. Began tracking COVID end of January, beginning of February 2020. Put up a blog post, which was very moderate, super moderate. And ultimately, you know, in the subsequent weeks encouraged South by Southwest to cancel. And was kind of dragged over the coals at the time. And then of course, COVID turned into what COVID turned into.

• 1:15:54Tim Ferriss?

  And had been very careful, not because I assume that it is instantaneous death. That is not what I assume, but because I have pre-existing respiratory issues. Very well established respiratory issues. And there were a lot of unknowns. There continue to be a lot of unknowns related to COVID-19. And I wanted to delay getting it as long as possible. So looking at the lifestyle calculus, it was very easy for me to mitigate risk without making huge sacrifices. I saw a lot of potential upside and very limited downside to taking certain precautions.

• 1:16:34Tim Ferriss?

  I ended up going to F1, so Formula One in Austin, where at least in the paddock, everyone had been, I believe, both vaccinated and tested negative with a PCR test within 48 or 72 hours. Where I think I contracted it because there are so few options, because I've been so careful. There are so few options where I would have been exposed. What I think happened is I succumbed to social pressure. And the way it happened is I had taken a car by myself to and from Circuit of the Americas from Cota each day.

• 1:17:14Tim Ferriss?

  And then on the last day getting back, I had not, I had made some mistake and there was a snafu with transportation. And so I ended up getting kind of directed to a location to transportation, which I assumed meant I would be able to get a one-on-one ride back to the city since trying to find parking. Just impossible. I mean, there were 400,000 people there over three days. So I end up in a golf cart driven like a half a mile to this point. It's complete pandemonium, right? Like everyone is trying to leave Coda at the same time. And I get directed to this van and it's like, there's your ride. Now I had taken a van

• 1:17:56Tim Ferriss?

  to the event that day, but I was one of three people in the van and we spaced out and so on. And I also had a mask. On the way back, I opened the door of the van and it's packed. It's like a 12 seater with 12 people or 11 people so that I could fit in. And they're like, okay, yeah, hop on in. We're headed downtown. And I was like, oh, fuck. I don't want to do this, but at least where I was, everyone was tested. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Whatever. And then I got in and I sat down and it's like, there was this one model chick vaping in the fucking van. I mean, it was terrible. And I'm just sitting there like reading my Kindle. I'm like, if I'm going to get fucking COVID,

• 1:18:37Tim Ferriss?

  it is going to be right now here. And then about five days later, started feeling very, very congested and began to develop a really severe headache. And I attributed it to allergies in Austin because Austin has really, really bad allergies. You have cedar or juniper ash, you have ragweed, you have all sorts of allergens that cause really severe reactions in people. So I just assumed it was allergies and then I was getting ready to pack, to get on a flight to go to New Orleans for a friend's 50th birthday and Halloween.

• 1:19:16Tim Ferriss?

  And we were by basically my request, everyone was going to be PCR tested when they landed. And we had, my girlfriend and I, binax kits at home. So we had Abbott manufactured rapid antigen test at home. And I was feeling congested and so she very wisely suggested, well, before we get on the plane and pack and do all this stuff, why don't you take one before we go? And I did, just as a formality, right? Kept packing, da, da, da, da. And I came back and I'm like, oh shit, that looks positive. And I don't know what the, let's just call it accuracy. There are different ways to assess these tests, but let's just say that it's.

• 1:19:59Tim Ferriss?

  85% accurate and Peter Tia could give you a much better description, right?

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  Think it's one of those things when it's, if it has a positive, it's more likely to be positive. But it could miss, you know what I'm talking about? Like there's.

• 1:20:13Tim Ferriss?

  I do, but also if you just take two tests or three tests, right? You can, you can get the likelihood of two false positives down to say less than 5%.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  So let me ask you a question. The one thing I'm always curious about these things is we've all done these at home or at least a few of us have that are listening. How quickly did that other line show up? I always wondered.

• 1:20:32Tim Ferriss?

  Within, within five minutes, it showed up so quickly.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  Oh, so it wasn't like, well, cause I was like, wait 15 minutes and I'm always waiting. Okay.

• 1:20:39Tim Ferriss?

  It, it popped up really quickly and then did the second test and it popped up really quickly. And I was like, well, this looks like a positive. And at that point, went immediately into action mode. I didn't panic at that point. I'm very good in crisis, or I should say, and some people listening might say, well, that's not a crisis. Well, if you knew my history and you knew some of the outcomes that I've seen and the doctors I've interacted with, you wouldn't be as cavalier.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  What is action mode for you? What does that mean? Action mode?

• 1:21:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll tell you, but I'll just say like in crisis situations, it's like the little paper cuts of life on a daily basis that make me lose my shit. But like, if there's like a car accident or someone is in the hospital or something really bad happens. I'm good in those circumstances, the freeze in Austin and doing disaster response. And like, I'm really good in those circumstances. So what action mode meant for me was number one, immediately scheduling a PCR test to definitively confirm that I was positive.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  But you, you knew you'd taken like three of these things like.

• 1:21:50Tim Ferriss?

  No, I'd taken, I'd taken two at that point, but before, and actually this is important. So before considering different types of actions or interventions.

• 1:22:02Tim Ferriss?

  I wanted to really, to the extent that I could be close to 100% certain, be 100% certain. Because as you know, one doctor I know well puts it, not Peter, another doctor, he says, "Drugs are all terrible with a few positive side effects." Meaning, you're signing up for a targeted effect that you're hoping will be helpful or beneficial, but almost all drugs have known and/or unknown side effects. It's just part and parcel. Very few things are so selective that it's all upside. So I wanted to be as certain as possible. So PCR test, and then as soon as that was confirmed, sort of simultaneously scheduling

• 1:22:46Tim Ferriss?

  because I could cancel. Let me just pause for a second and say, none of this is medical advice. This is very specific to me. It's very specific to conversations with my doctors, but I want to, for educational purposes only, walk through this so that people can, if it's helpful, have some view into my thought process. So I booked IV monoclonal antibodies, which are from Regeneron in this case.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  Question. What, questions as this is unfolding, where you're at, where you're based, you were in Austin at the time, is that correct?

• 1:23:22Tim Ferriss?

  That's right.

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  Okay, so could you, is that something you could just book? I didn't even know you could just like book, or do you have to have a doctor go and like, like, how hard is it to get that?

• 1:23:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yep. So, and you know what I just realized also? I didn't answer your question about Mindbloom, and I want to come back to that, because this is related. So let me just put a bow in Mindbloom. So Mindbloom, CEO's Dylan, I've met with him, I've had a number of people I know who are extremely seasoned facilitators with psychedelic medicine. The vast majority of those facilitators are charlatans, as you and I know, but there are a handful of folks who are really methodical and expert, in my opinion, and they've gone through the Mindbloom process and they have said...

• 1:24:06Tim Ferriss?

  Only positive things, which I was dumbfounded to hear. That's awesome. And I've never gone through myself, but I have through a clinic here in Austin about a year and a half ago, done five or six infusions with IV over the period of two weeks, so that I would be able to speak to the effects and side effects of ketamine if people asked me about it, specifically for depression or suicidal ideation. I think ketamine is very interesting. Also for chronic pain and that relates to NMDA receptors, but we won't get into that. So Mindbloom, very interesting. And I have a very high opinion of both the company and the CEO, Dylan.

• 1:24:51Tim Ferriss?

  So that's Mindbloom. I've heard good things as well. So the reason I tied that in, I'm sorry for forgetting that earlier, is because there is a company called Dri Hydration, drihydration.com. And my girlfriend booked the monoclonal antibodies through Dri Hydration. And the way that works is you effectively sign up and then you will be, and I'm probably getting some of the details wrong here, but you will be contacted by a doctor or nurse practitioner who does an intake evaluation. Because there are risks with almost anything that is an unfamiliar compound, you can experience anaphylactic response, right?

• 1:25:35Tim Ferriss?

  You could, you could have anaphylactic shock and you could die. So there are people who have adverse events with monoclonal antibodies. And I was, as I am also going into action mode, I'm talking to three different doctors. And it gives me tremendous sympathy every time I have a situation like this, or some type of acute medical situation. How challenging it is to navigate medicine and science, even if you are really plugged in. So I was in contact, I'm not going to name names, but I was in touch with three doctors, all very good doctors. One effectively said, do monoclonal antibodies as quickly as you can, because the sooner you do it, the better. My understanding is generally

• 1:26:17Tim Ferriss?

  you want to administer within seven days of contracting. But keep in mind, I don't know when I contracted exactly. It was probably five days before I was diagnosed. The second person said, I don't think you fit the risk profile. You are, you are not immune compromised from sort of a textbook assessment. You-

• 1:26:38Speaker 03

  You're double vaxxed, right?

• 1:26:40Tim Ferriss?

  You're double vaccinated, in my case with Moderna. There are possible downsides to having the monoclonal antibodies administered. I would advise against taking it, and you should wait and see. And if you develop more severe symptoms, then we can talk. The third doctor gave me the pros and cons, and this is a very common response that you'll get, gave me the pros and cons and said, really, it's up to you. I could justify saying, go. I could justify saying, don't go. That's a very challenging situation to be in. There is no tiebreaker in this case.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  Can I ask you how you got three doctors? Are these like pre-existing doctors that you've worked with in the past?

• 1:27:24Tim Ferriss?

  Pre-existing doctors.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  Okay, I know you know a lot of doctors. I just like was wondering, like, are you calling up people randomly, or?

• 1:27:29Tim Ferriss?

  Right, 1-800-COVID-doctors. I am not calling up people randomly. I, as you know, Kevin, really believe in redundancy and backup. And I have two backup whole house generators at my house, which meant I was one of two houses in an entire neighborhood with power during the Austin freeze last winter. My feeling, and this is from the military, not that I was in the military, but a lot of my friends who have been in the military will say, two is one and one is none. If you have two of something, you're going to lose one of them, and then you'll have one. If you have one, just consider it none. Because doctors get sick, sometimes doctors are unavailable.

• 1:28:11Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not in a near fatal car crash, so it may not even qualify as an emergency for some doctors. And for that reason, I want to have multiple people sort of on contract or multiple people I've already done intake with, who I have relationships with, who I can contact via cellphone. If I'm going to spend excess money anywhere for redundancy, medical is where to spend it for you and your loved ones. So that's how I had three people. And I was doing this via email and also via cellphone. And I spoke with all of them and they're all great, but the point is there was no consensus. I ended up, for psychological reasons, deciding that I wanted to do it because of my, some

• 1:28:55Tim Ferriss?

  of my pre-existing conditions, I did not want to wonder whether or not I was going to develop some type of respiratory distress or collapse. I just, I didn't want to have that on my mind for the next five days. I knew that if I had an anaphylactic response, there are ways to kind of attenuate that response with say an EpiPen or intravenous, I think it's difenhydramine, Benadryl. So there are ways to kind of mitigate the risk. So I decided to do monoclonal antibodies and then also decided with, through the advice of two out of three doctors in this case, to take fluvoxamine.

• 1:29:38Tim Ferriss?

  So I started taking something called fluvoxamine, which is a repurposed antidepressant. This is a very interesting case. So fluvoxamine, and I'm reading here from nature.com, so I would expect it to be credible and fact-checked, but obviously do your own homework and please always speak to any doctor before stopping or starting any medications. So common antidepressants slashes risk of COVID death. So fluvoxamine, not to be confused with Prozac, which is, I think...

• 1:30:09Tim Ferriss?

  Fluoxetine has a very similar name, but it's it's different. So fluvoxamine is is a different antidepressant that is cheap, widely available, and frequently used for depression and obsessive compulsive disorder. So also, I was like, you know, I'm kind of curious to see what this will do to me.

• 1:30:29Speaker 03

  Win, win.

• 1:30:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, win, win. But I'll just read briefly so that people have an idea of why this has been repurposed. So it is also known to dampen immune responses and temper tissue damage. Researchers credit these properties with its success in a recent trial. Among study participants who took the drug as directed and did so in the early stages of the disease, COVID-19 related deaths fell by roughly 90% and the need for intensive COVID-19 related medical care fell by roughly 65%. Now, I should, however, also read the quote from a scientist at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta who says, A, a major victory for drug repurposing, but next, quote, fluvoxamine treatment should be adopted for those at high risk for deterioration who

• 1:31:13Tim Ferriss?

  are not vaccinated or cannot receive monoclonal antibodies. So one could make the argument, and one of my doctors did make the argument, that A, you're not at a high risk of deterioration, B, you're vaccinated, C, you're getting monoclonal antibodies, you do not need to take fluvoxamine.

• 1:31:30Speaker 03

  So you took the kitchen sink approach, basically?

• 1:31:33Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't, though. I really...

• 1:31:36Speaker 03

  You didn't do the horsey, but you went...

• 1:31:37Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't do the horsey. I didn't go full horse. I I chose two interventions and then I supplemented with vitamin D and a handful of other supplements that are very low risk. I also supplemented with baby aspirin for any type of like thrombosis risk. So one could make the argument that this is complete overkill. But for me, in my mind, as I'm tracking outcomes and have tracked this since February, and I'm not... Crazy. I don't think I'm crazy. I think I'm actually

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  I think I would have done the exact same thing, by the way, based on everything that I've read. I think I would, my protocol would have been the same.

• 1:32:17Tim Ferriss?

  I don't think I've been crazy about this stuff. I think, you know, my paying attention to this early allowed me to make some of the best investment decisions of my life. So even if you think I'm a crank when it comes to the science, like understanding the societal and supply chain implications of this is useful. So that is what I did. And I'll just add a few things. So what happened? I ended up having, I would say, overall mild symptoms.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  What was the text you sent me? You said you woke up in the middle of the night with a little bit of a panic? What was going on there with the chest stuff?

• 1:32:53Tim Ferriss?

  So there were a number of kind of events that were very disconcerting. But when people ask me like zero to 10, how bad was your COVID? And I was like, well, people die from this. So if dying is 10, I'm not a, not a seven. Like I have to assume that if it's like a seven or above, you're in the hospital. So four, five, perhaps? I don't know. And so I had mild fever. I had severe, severe headache. And very bizarrely, like a localized headache that felt kind of like an ice pick in the side of the head.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Oh, I hate those.

• 1:33:27Tim Ferriss?

  Which was unpleasant. I had extreme muscle soreness to the extent that it was hard to move at all. But the most disconcerting, those are all, say, severe flu symptoms. Let's call it.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's the lung shit that scares you though, right?

• 1:33:44Tim Ferriss?

  It was the respiratory distress and labored breathing, like tightness in the chest and having difficulty breathing. That was the most disconcerting for me by far. That was definitely the scariest.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  And that was just one night?

• 1:33:58Tim Ferriss?

  That was a few different nights. That was a few different nights. And also, it's very difficult to determine causality, what causes what, because so many things are happening simultaneously. So as an example, when I started to wean off of the SSRIs, because I've never been on SSRIs before and

• 1:34:21Tim Ferriss?

  I also spoke to a number of doctors. A few were like, you don't need to taper off. You can stop cold turkey because it's only 10 days. And then I spoke to a few other psychiatrists who I trust very deeply and they said, absolutely don't stop cold turkey. And I tapered off. So I taper off of the SSRIs. This is maybe five days ago. So let's just call it two weeks post, although I took the fluvoxamine at full dose for 10 days and then tapered off over, say, three or four. Talk to your doctor. Don't just do what I did. What I noticed was each night, as I started tapering off, I would wake up at between four or five in the morning with really rapid heart rate and sweating profusely.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:35:01Tim Ferriss?

  Now, it happened once. Who knows what it's from?

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  That can't be the SSRI though.

• 1:35:06Tim Ferriss?

  Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. Well, hold on. So it could be anything. All right. It could be any number of things. But then it happened the next night and then it happened the third night. And I'm like, okay, something's happening. But is it from COVID? Is it from the SSRIs in some capacity? There's a chance that that is it. And

• 1:35:27Speaker 03

  It might be from the lack of SSRIs, right?

• 1:35:29Tim Ferriss?

  Well, that's the other thing. Is it because I'm experiencing a rebound inflammatory response from removing these SSRIs that have an anti-inflammatory effect? I don't know. So I'm about now two and a half weeks out. I did my first workout last night and have had a splitting headaches since. Within a few minutes of starting exercise, my heart rate spiked to 150, 160 beats per minute.

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  Wow, crazy.

• 1:35:59Tim Ferriss?

  One of the most consistent

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  That's high, dude.

• 1:36:01Tim Ferriss?

  It was.

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Doing what?

• 1:36:02Tim Ferriss?

  Doing nothing. I mean, getting on a stationary bike for five minutes to warm up. I will say the fatigue and extended fatigue and ease of fatigue has been the most noticeable persistent effect. And I remember also the symptoms coming in waves. Maybe at day five, I really was just going so stir crazy. I wanted to go outside for a walk. You know, mask on, away from other people late at night and I ended up going for my first walk, not that night, but the next kind of late afternoon, off hours, and I went for a walk downtown Austin, not near anybody, way, way outside of any congestion, for a half hour, really slowly, flat ground, and I came back and

• 1:36:47Tim Ferriss?

  I was so tired that I fell asleep for four hours. Yeah, so I'm glad I took the precautions I did, and I will say this, because, and I've probably lost some people already just listening to my recounting of this, but the purpose of the vaccine, I saw a number of comments, when I put up a notice just saying, I've contracted COVID, anyone who's waiting for anything from me, please just be patient, because it could be a few weeks, when I put up that note on social, people lost their minds on every side and every direction. It was, it's really disheartening to see, and it's not because I care personally, but

• 1:37:28Tim Ferriss?

  it's become such a divisive issue, and what I'll say, just for me personally, I never expected the vaccine to prevent me from becoming infected. What I did hope for, and based on the data, believed was likely, is that the vaccinations would, once I got COVID, would reduce the risk of being hospitalized or having severe complications, including long haul symptoms, even if your initial symptoms are mild. So, I just think that's really important to say, because a lot of the responses I saw were, oh, you think you're so fucking smart, like, doesn't seem like your vaccine is working,

• 1:38:09Tim Ferriss?

  and it's like, well, guys, if less than 1%, and this is the number I've been told by a number of docs, so definitely check the primary materials, but if, if less than 1% of the people currently hospitalized... Are vaccinated, just based on the data, forget about the politicians, forget about all the yelling and screaming on YouTube, but just looking at the data we have, which are not all manufactured by Big Pharma, as someone who funds a lot of science, I just want to say like, it's not that simple. The conspiracies on one side, which are like, all of this is being driven by Big Pharma, have a grain of truth to them in the sense that, you know, Big Pharma lobbies and has a lot of capital and they, they can exert

• 1:38:54Tim Ferriss?

  influence, but they don't have complete control over something like this. Similarly, you know, on kind of the other end of the spectrum, you have people who are concerned about nanny states or police state and the US government inflicting this and forcing this upon people. I'm not talking about mandates, by the way, I'm putting that aside. That is just like outside of the purview of this conversation. But if we're talking about my personal reasons, I happen to still believe that good scientists exist and that the scientific method is the best approach we currently have for asking questions of nature and getting back verifiable, repeatable answers. I was vaccinated to keep the symptoms

• 1:39:35Tim Ferriss?

  as mild as they happen to be for me. And I'm not convinced that that would have been the case otherwise, given that, you know, when things were hitting New York, I was on the phone, talking to doctors at Mount Sinai and other places, senior attending physicians who are telling me on the phone, if you hear people telling you that this is just affecting people who are 70 and 80, don't believe them because I am looking in front of me at like two or three people in their twenties and thirties on, who are intubated and they have no pre-existing symptoms or comorbidities, none of them smoke. You gotta be careful with this stuff. So, that is my story.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  Well, I'm glad you're okay, man. That's, that's the most important piece. That's great.

• 1:40:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, thanks. I have had some residual cognitive effects, though. I was mentioning earlier that the kind of slurring of words and missing words, there do seem to be, I don't think they're going to persist forever necessarily, but there do seem to be some, some residual effects. And part of the reason that I

• 1:40:41Tim Ferriss?

  Chose to become vaccinated, part of the reason I chose to take the approach that I took, which is heavily dependent on your individual doctor input, was not just to lower the risk of severe symptoms in the early stages, but to decrease the likelihood of long haul symptoms, which are no joke.

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, no joke. Yeah, I just got my booster. I actually went with the Pfizer and decided to mix and match because I saw some good, pretty compelling early data around additional coverage with the mixing and matching. I'm sure you probably saw that as well.

• 1:41:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you should get your fourth booster with some horse semen.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:41:18Tim Ferriss?

  That's the finisher.

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got the, and for people that are listening, don't freak out. My mom has cancer, so I got the booster so I could be safe around her. I know that's not my time to get the booster, but you know, I want to see my mom. So that's reason enough right there.

• 1:41:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for sure, man. So that's, that's the COVID story. It's crazy though. It's very, I will say that A, I'm glad that I got it now and not in March or April of 2020. And I'll also say that there is some relief to it because my opinion of COVID is similar. It's developed a bit, but similar to what it was in March of 2020, when I took to social media to encourage the organizers of South by to cancel. And that is, it can't be contained. It just, it can't, this, this is not, it doesn't have the profile of a virus that can be contained. And my expectation is everybody's going to get this and people

• 1:42:19Tim Ferriss?

  are probably going to get it multiple times. And the follow up question to that then, or the consideration is, how do you minimize the likelihood of having severe symptoms?

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:42:32Tim Ferriss?

  And so that's, that's the lens that I've been using. And now that I have it, right? Like tiptoeing around. And taking all these precautions like to finally have the thing, it was so fucking weird, you know, to walk around.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  I remember when you tell me, you weren't even taking like Amazon packages and shit in the early days, like you wouldn't touch them, right?

• 1:42:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, no, no, well, early days I was disinfecting everything and we, there were so many unknowns, like it's not.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. I was wiping down my egg cartons and shit.

• 1:43:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's, you know, I mean, it's, it's very important, I think, to understand the limits of the known knowns and the known unknowns for that matter, in everything, whether that's picking a partner, like girlfriend or a wife or a husband or whatever, or investing or looking at science. Like, it's really important to know the limits and to try to make decisions based on the knowns. And I'll also say one more thing, and just because this comes up a lot and people are gonna hate me for bringing this up. One of the most common responses slash criticisms that I've heard in the far left kind of conspirituality folks and also from

• 1:43:42Tim Ferriss?

  some folks who wouldn't fit into that demo, but who are vaccine hesitant, and I understand the concern, is we don't know how the vaccine affects fertility or long-term fertility. And they're absolutely right. They're absolutely right. I would agree with that, but disagree that that automatically means one should not be vaccinated. Because if you're going to apply that logic to the vaccine, you should apply that logic elsewhere. And I would just love to see anyone open their cabinet and tell me what the long-term fertility implications

• 1:44:23Tim Ferriss?

  are for all of the supplements and medications and Chinese herbs and so on that they have in their cabinet. They can't. That science has not been, science hasn't been done. And what I would say is, it's a calculus that includes not just looking at the downside of that potential unknown, but looking at the downsides of some risks where we have more data. So what is the likelihood that COVID or severe COVID?

• 1:44:54Tim Ferriss?

  Improves fertility, I would say pretty low. Is there a possibility that contracting COVID decreases fertility? I don't think it's impossible. I certainly think that's a possibility. And therefore, if the assumption is everyone is going to get COVID, I think what I just mentioned should be part of the conversation. It doesn't mean you automatically get a vaccine. It doesn't mean you automatically don't get a vaccine. But I think it is simplistic and dangerous to say, well, just because you can't prove the long-term implications for fertility, therefore, nobody who's thinking about kids should get vaccinated. I think that's.

• 1:45:34Speaker 03

  One question for you, and I don't know the answer to this at all. And maybe you don't, but like, is there any data that suggests it does impact fertility in any way?

• 1:45:43Tim Ferriss?

  COVID or vaccine?

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  Vaccine.

• 1:45:45Tim Ferriss?

  I am not aware of any, and I went pretty high up the flagpole with people who I consider highly credible. Because I'm planning on kids, and I certainly don't want to jeopardize my fertility. I don't want my girlfriend to jeopardize her fertility. I don't want anyone to unnecessarily jeopardize their fertility. But not getting vaccinated does not mean you automatically have a free pass. A, you're taking lots of things where the long-term implications have not been proven or sort of demonstrated to, to any significant statistical degree.

• 1:46:26Tim Ferriss?

  And next, the effect negative, probably not positive, potentially, that COVID has on fertility is at least an unknown, or I should say, you know, possibly unknown and possibly known. I just, it just seems unlikely, given the mechanisms we understand and the action effects of this disease, that. It has a positive impact. Who knows? Maybe. I don't know how one would ever do that study also. As somebody who's very deeply involved in funding science and fundraising for science, I can tell you, science is very, very, very, very expensive and it takes

• 1:47:05Tim Ferriss?

  time and it takes ethics boards and it takes all sorts of approvals, IRB approval and, you know, the case of psychedelics DEA approval and so on and so on. So let me make a recommendation because this can sound really overwhelming to everybody. Two things. One is check out a book called Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. He's a British M.D. I took a number of excerpts from that book with his permission, with publisher's permission and put it into the appendix of The Four Hour Body. So if you have The Four Hour Body or you buy The Four Hour Body, you can also find a very succinct appendix which helps you to just become more

• 1:47:45Tim Ferriss?

  literate and intelligent when reading science because everybody and their brother, every media outlet is going to make mistakes. Just about every single outlet is going to take shortcuts and sensationalize on every point in the political spectrum. And also, they're going to make mistakes in interpreting results. So one of the best things you can do for your life and critical thinking and decision making with health is to become just a little bit more literate with science and your ability to separate fact from fiction or at least clear bullshit from something that might be plausibly okay. And you can do that with

• 1:48:28Tim Ferriss?

  a few hours of investment. You just need to read, say, Bad Science. I took some of my favorite parts, put it in this appendix of The Four Hour Body. And there's also a series of articles by Peter Attia, Dr. Peter Attia, called Studying the Studies, I believe it is. And Yes, his are great. That's a deeper dive, but really, really worth.

• 1:48:52Tim Ferriss?

  Taking a look at that, it's been incredibly helpful to me. It's enabled me outside of COVID to make some really critical decisions, I think, well. And it doesn't take that much time. If you're willing to invest five hours, you could really change your life or the lives of others by making better decisions later. It's a great investment of time.

• 1:49:15Speaker 03

  Awesome. Good recommendations. Let's get to holiday gifts.

• 1:49:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, let's do it. And then I have to run in about 10 minutes. So why don't you go first?

• 1:49:24Speaker 03

  Sweet. I've got a bunch, you know, we're getting that time of year where especially with supply constraints that it's good to order on the early side, you know, for a lot of this stuff. So I don't know when this is planning on dropping, but.

• 1:49:36Tim Ferriss?

  These are all for Christmas 2022.

• 1:49:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. So I'll say a couple of things. One of the things that I have found to be a really fun thing, speaking of like Ted Lasso and other fun things that you can do at night that don't involve drinking or just, you know, some, some fun things to do with your spouse or significant other. Legos for adults, man. Some of these Lego projects, they're not for kids. They're like super throwback, super complicated, like crazy Lego sets. I just got Daria, my wife just had a birthday. She's, uh, actually her birthday is in three days, but I just got her the Ecto one because she's a huge Ghostbusters fan.

• 1:50:11Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's awesome. I'm looking at it right now.

• 1:50:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's super legit. It's not like snap five pieces together. It's like, this is like a, you know, thousand piece or whatever it is project. I got the Voltron one, which is awesome. They have a vintage Porsche 911 and you can link these up, but they're just, they're just fun. It's just something, you know, to when you're at home and bust out the Legos and have a good time.

• 1:50:33Tim Ferriss?

  I was just gonna say, well, we'll have links to all these in the show notes. So if you're, if you're lucky enough to listen to this on the early side, because I'm sure they're all sell out, then just go to tim.blog/podcast and search random show and it'll pop right up.

• 1:50:46Speaker 03

  There you go. A couple of the quick things from me, because I know you got to bounce. So dude, are you a fan of Bitchmade knives?

• 1:50:53Tim Ferriss?

  I am, yes.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Okay, cool. So I got this new favorite from them. It's the 537 Bailout family of knives. Like it's just like a sick little pocket knife.

• 1:51:03Tim Ferriss?

  It's open assist or what is it?

• 1:51:05Speaker 03

  This has the little tiny nodule that you kind of just like flip open. It's not automatic. I do have an automatic that actually like right here. Like check this out. This you can only get these in Oregon. Cause they're they're legal here in Oregon, but like you got the full like, see you guys on video for watch on video. Yeah, but that's that's Oregon only edition. That that's Benchmade as well. But Benchmade makes great, great knives. For those of you listening to audio version, I just pulled out a switchblade on the video. But but they're legal in Oregon. So I'm a Boy Scout. So I just like, I always liked to have a blade.

• 1:51:35Tim Ferriss?

  Every Eagle Scout needs a switchblade.

• 1:51:37Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:51:38Tim Ferriss?

  So I also.

• 1:51:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 1:51:40Tim Ferriss?

  I was just gonna add another pocket knife that I'm a huge fan of, since you mentioned knives, is the Kershaw Ken Onion Leak serrated folding knife with Speed Safe. And it has a an open assist. That is fantastic.

• 1:51:56Speaker 03

  I like Kershaw.

• 1:51:58Tim Ferriss?

  Really, really nice.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  I don't know if you know this, but Benchmaids are actually made about a half hour from my house. I went to their factory.

• 1:52:03Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, that's cool.

• 1:52:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you can take your knives in and they'll just sharpen them for free. It's really cool.

• 1:52:08Tim Ferriss?

  You know, you should actually, now that I I totally blanked on this, I think he's in, I think he's still near Portland, but Murray Carter, who was on my podcast.

• 1:52:17Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:52:18Tim Ferriss?

  The knife maker who was trained in Japan is nearby. So also, if you wanted to make your own knife, he could help get you up to speed.

• 1:52:28Speaker 03

  Carter Cutlery, right? Is that right?

• 1:52:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Carter Cutlery. He's amazing. Yeah, you can make a neck knife if you really wanted to go full Portland thug.

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  I need to go, I need to go visit. That's a great, those are great holiday gifts right there.

• 1:52:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, those knives are one of a kind. Super, super special.

• 1:52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, gotta link those up.

• 1:52:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, we'll link to this.

• 1:52:48Speaker 03

  So Aura has a new ring out, the Aura 3. It's got real time heart rate, better sensors. Full disclosure, I'm an investor, but I don't get anything from saying that. It's just a cooler ring. The last thing, by the way, I use the Aura for for sleep. So I put on when I go to bed.

• 1:53:01Tim Ferriss?

  Me too. I use it for sleep as well.

• 1:53:04Speaker 03

  You know, um, Matt Walker just joined as an advisor and is doing stuff for them and helping on the algorithm side. So it's cool.

• 1:53:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  Do you know these stone paper notebooks? Did I ever tell you about?

• 1:53:15Tim Ferriss?

  I just pulled up the website, but I don't know these guys.

• 1:53:18Speaker 03

  So imagine like, we all know like Moleskine and you know, notebooks are always kind of like a fun little gift to give people. These Karst notebooks are like the softest, they're made out of stone, so it's not paper. They're made of like the stone composite each page.

• 1:53:33Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, each page is made, each page is made out of stone? This is what I was trying to figure out. So this is like hipster Abe Lincoln.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Yes, pretty much.

• 1:53:42Tim Ferriss?

  Awesome.

• 1:53:42Speaker 03

  But it's like the softest is, it's like, it's a velvety type pa- it's just a dream to write on. Anyway, these Karst notebooks are fantastic. They're not that expensive, they're better than Moleskine's. Somebody gifted me one and I, when I put like pen to paper, I was like, wow, this feels so good. And then I researched them and realized that they were sustainable and just made from not trees, but from stone. And I was like, I have to, and now, and now I just have them all over the house. Like I buy them, I've got two on my desk right now.

• 1:54:11Tim Ferriss?

  How on earth do you slice stone thinly enough?

• 1:54:15Speaker 03

  I think it's pulverized and they make like a sheet out of it. Yeah, you can, you can click on the about and then click on the materials link there and it'll show you how they do it. But it's really, really beautiful to write on. Oh, and then also dude, that, um, my last gift idea is that venison jerky that you invested in that.

• 1:54:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, now we knew it.

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  On that stuff.

• 1:54:36Tim Ferriss?

  That stuff's so good.

• 1:54:37Speaker 03

  It's so good, I keep ordering.

• 1:54:39Tim Ferriss?

  Right before we recorded.

• 1:54:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's the best, like 10 grams of protein, like, you know, post workout or whatever, just like the easy, and it's tasty, it's really good.

• 1:54:49Tim Ferriss?

  Good, yeah, it's so good. So people can, can check that out. Maui, M A U I, Nui, N U I, venison. I think it's just Maui Nui venison.

• 1:54:59Speaker 03

  I get the bars, because they make them in links as well, but I like the bars the best, the pepper bars.

• 1:55:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I love the, I love the bars. I actually eat the Lynx more. They have fresh cuts. They're used in some of the top restaurants in the country. They're fantastic.

• 1:55:13Speaker 03

  And they're wild and they're, they're, they're like, um, what do they call that? Yeah. Wild harvests. So they're not like a penning them up or anything. They just do like.

• 1:55:20Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. No, no, they're gobbling up the ecosystem in Hawaii, which is why also you're actually improving the ecosystems in Hawaii by eating this deer because the, the effects are so destructive. It's part of the reason I invested. I mean, there's aerial footage of erosion and runoff, damaging and destroying coral reef in Hawaii because the undergrowth has been so decimated by Axis deer.

• 1:55:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. You sent me the video and there's like thousands of them.

• 1:55:51Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's insane. Yeah.

• 1:55:52Speaker 03

  It's not like you're like, like some butterfly where you're like making extinct. Like there's.

• 1:55:56Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no, no, no. They're, they're everywhere. They are everywhere and there is just about the most nutrient dense, probably the most nutrient dense red meat I've ever had in my life. It's fantastic. So Maui Newey, I definitely second that.

• 1:56:10Speaker 03

  Dude, we forgot my, uh, budgeting finance tools. I want to mention those real quick. Can I say those real quick one at a time?

• 1:56:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Actually, I'll, I'll cheat on my answer on the holiday gifts.

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  Oh, you go first.

• 1:56:21Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no, it'll work out perfectly. You go and then, cause I do have to run in a couple of minutes. So why don't you do your budgeting apps? I will actually, yeah, I'll, I'll actually just say, I just put together a 10 of my favorite goodies that make great gifts. And I think, let me just check here. I think it's just tim.blog/giftguide and that'll take people directly to 10 gifts to make your holidays extra fun, relaxing and delicious. Yeah. So people can just check that out. tim.blog/giftguide. All right. Budgeting apps.

• 1:56:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. So real quick, we're going into a new year. I always try to track finances and all that good stuff. And so I spent a bunch of time going through all the latest and greatest iOS apps and desktop apps and just seeing what is out there, what's new. And so I'll just give you real quick. There's one, Tim, you would love this one. Actually, I'm not joking. It's called Kubera, K U B E R A dot com. It is, it's more like spreadsheet style, but it ties in all of your banks and it also ties in all of your cryptocurrency as well. And it's just like, it's like a net worth tracker. And it's just, it's very simple, but very powerful. It is beautiful. It's awesome. And

• 1:57:35Tim Ferriss?

  That's a cool screenshot on the, on the main website.

• 1:57:38Speaker 03

  On the website?

• 1:57:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's like super, super simple. It's just more of like, how am I doing net worth wise across a bunch of different assets?

• 1:57:46Tim Ferriss?

  That's cool.

• 1:57:47Speaker 03

  On the day to day budgeting side, killer iOS app that I just fell in love with is called Copilot. So you can go to copilot.money. Sadly, there's no Android or desktop app yet, but they say that's coming. Then lastly, Mint, old school Mint. I hated Mint for years and years and years. Four block. The reason I hate it is because it's packed with ads all over the place. My buddy was like, hey, you need to check out Mint again.

• 1:58:11Tim Ferriss?

  They need an NFT to offer a ad free version.

• 1:58:15Speaker 03

  Seriously, ad free. But it's gotten so much better. So if you, if you gave up on Mint a while ago, it's time to go back and take another look because they completely redesigned it and it's, it's a lot better. But, but copilot.money is my favorite on iOS and Kubera for overarching kind of net worth tracking is, is the, the go-tos. Now I've tried probably two dozen of them over the last month or so.

• 1:58:35Tim Ferriss?

  Well, now, let me ask a silly question. I know you're not scraping by. You're doing pretty well. What do you find? You are more fluent with budgeting.

• 1:58:50Speaker 03

  I don't budget.

• 1:58:51Tim Ferriss?

  Than anyone I know. Well, what do you consider this then?

• 1:58:54Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:58:55Tim Ferriss?

  Is it, is it just so you can swim in your pool of money like Scrooge McDokken? Do the backstroke or is it like, what, what is it that helps you about this or that you like about the tracking?

• 1:59:08Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I would say that for most people, it's going to be about the general budgeting. For, for me, I don't want to say, this sounds really like bougie or whatever, but like I have someone that does budgeting to make sure we're on track and stuff like.

• 1:59:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  I just want to know if I'm spending too much money on wine or on travel or on like, you know, at the end of the year, it's always nice to sit down and be like, okay, here's what we did. Here's how our stocks did. Here's how our crypto did. I just kind of like having that holistic view. And then also how much are we spending on the kind of more stuff that we could dial back on a little bit, like on the crazy wines or the travel or whatever it may be. So.

• 1:59:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  That's what it is for me.

• 1:59:48Tim Ferriss?

  So it tracks. Now, if we look at, say, Kubera, Kubera.

• 1:59:54Speaker 03

  That's not going to be your budgeting.

• 1:59:56Tim Ferriss?

  That's assets.

• 1:59:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's assets. It's just like overarching, like all of your different banks, brokerage, stocks, currencies. It's like, almost like a spreadsheet, but better. It pulls in all of the data. It has all the right connections and that is what the go-to dashboard, just to see, how am I doing across the board? If, if you're one of these people that has a 401k here and some Robinhood crypto over here and Fidelity here and Wealthfront there, like it'll bring it all together under one roof. So you can see everything.

• 2:00:27Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. Dig it.

• 2:00:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is really cool. It is, it's the best. Just, I want to see how I'm doing. It's cool.

• 2:00:35Tim Ferriss?

  You know, what I've also heard great things about also from listeners and full disclosure, they do sponsor the podcast, but I did a lot of vetting and. And reached out to, you know, Ramit Sethi and reached out to Mr. Money Mustache, if you know who that is and a number of folks.

• 2:00:53Speaker 03

  I just had Ramit at my house two days ago, by the way.

• 2:00:56Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no kidding.

• 2:00:56Speaker 03

  He's in town.

• 2:00:58Tim Ferriss?

  He's so fun. He's a great guy. And you need a budget, Y N A B?

• 2:01:02Speaker 03

  Oh, YNAB.

• 2:01:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, YNAB.

• 2:01:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, YNAB is fantastic.

• 2:01:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:06Speaker 03

  I should have included that. It's old school. It's been out for a long time. But YNAB, for people that are, you know, if you're really into budgeting, I'd say YNAB is like for the hardcore, hardcore Copilot, I would, I would say does, it's not, they don't have the desktop app, so you can't really get as deep, but it, but it's, it's Copilot is more, I think it's a better interface.

• 2:01:26Tim Ferriss?

  I don't always judge products this way, but I look at the level of cult following, like how intense is the cult following? And YNAB, like people put it on their license plates, you know, when they buy a car for cash for the first time, or pay off a house, or it's pretty awesome to see just how loyal and dedicated a lot of these folks are. I will also check out Kubera. That's super interesting. I do most of the stuff on, on desktop, so I could use something that would actually tie lots together simply. So I'll take a look at that one as well.

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  And I use things like Copilot and Mint. You know, you say budgeting, you're right. I don't really pay a ton of attention to that. But if they do things like big purchase detection, and they'll send you a push notification. So if you do have fraud or something weird going on, you get a push, and you're like, oh, wait a second, did I actually buy that? You know, it's always nice to have little things like that.

• 2:02:21Tim Ferriss?

  Crazy world out there, Kevin Rose. Anything else you'd like to add?

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  No, dude, I'm glad you're healthy, man. You beat it. Not in four hours, but you beat it. I thought.

• 2:02:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 2:02:34Speaker 03

  There should be a small little drum there.

• 2:02:37Tim Ferriss?

  We can add it. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait. I've never done this before.

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  I heard it.

• 2:02:45Tim Ferriss?

  That's amazing. I've never used that before in my life.

• 2:02:52Tim Ferriss?

  Incredible. All right, man. Well, it's good to see you, brother.

• 2:02:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, good to see you as well. Thanks for doing this, man. It's always fun to do these shows with you.

• 2:03:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I can't wait to see you again in person, man. Give Dari a big hug for me. And for everybody listening, tim.blog/podcast, just search Random Show, and we'll link to everything in the show notes. Happy holidays.

• 2:03:16Speaker 03

  Happy holidays.

• 2:03:18Tim Ferriss?

  Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between 1.5 and 2 million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half-page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered, or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including

• 2:03:58Tim Ferriss?

  a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

• 2:04:27Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Tonal. Imagine having an entire gym's worth of equipment in a device smaller than a flat-screen TV, something that could fit potentially even in a closet. Fits in my closet. By eliminating traditional weights, Tonal can deliver 200 pounds of resistance with a sleek design that can fit nearly anywhere. It's like having an entire gym and personal trainer right in your home. Tonal's patented digital weight system senses your strength and adjusts the weight automatically in real time so you can get the most out of every workout. I have a number of friends, including competitive athletes. Who have doubled their strength in a short order in a lot of exercises. And part of the reason that's possible is it uses a revolutionary system of dynamic resistance powered by electric motors for strength you can feel.

• 2:05:12Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:05:57Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:06:40Tim Ferriss?

  And for the last few years, I've been sleeping on a Helix Midnight Luxe mattress. I also have one in the guest bedroom and feedback from friends has always been fantastic. It's something that they comment on. Helix Sleep has a quiz, takes about two minutes to complete, that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. With Helix, there's a specific mattress for each and every body. That is your body, also your taste. So let's say you sleep on your side and like a super soft. Bed, no problem. Or if you're a back sleeper who likes a mattress that's as firm as a rock, they've got a mattress for you too. Helix was selected as the number one best overall mattress pick of 2020 by GQ Magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others.

• 2:07:23Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:08:08Tim Ferriss?

  Helix, H-E-L-I-X, sleep.com/tim.