What Men Are Thinking When They’re Dating feat. Niko Emanuilidis

We have the dean of Daddy Academy himself, Niko Emanuilidis, back on GGE to spill all the tea on the male POV. We talk about low effort dating (does a coffee date mean he’s not interested?), why guys don’t confirm a date the day of, how long a dating break should last, and if you can win someone back once they’ve pulled away. Then we dive into the four phases of dating someone (essentially the first three months) and we LOVE this conversation and breakdown – how each phase should play out, what you should find out about a potential partner in each phase, how things change after sex, why and how men “vet backwards,” when to discuss being official, the difference between being exclusive and being boyfriend/girlfriend (we debate this one!), and the point at which you should call it if things aren’t clear. Before Niko joins us, Ashley reveals a regretful thing she did at the airport and Rayna headlined a sushi restaurant unintentionally. Enjoy! Follow Niko on Instagram @nikoeman, Tiktok @thedaddyacademy, and YouTube. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Rocket Money: Reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. The Testaments: Watch the The Testaments now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. FP Movement: Go to http://fpmovement.com to shop their full line of activewear and workout gear. Liquid IV: Get 20% off your first order at https://liquidiv.com with code GGE. ZBiotics: Get 15% off at https://zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  At this point, I would say men vet backwards. The emotion of the lust, right? And the excitement is what's driving a man really early. And then.

• 0:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back.

• 0:33Rayna Greenberg?

  We are finally in New York together. I finally got her here with me. December was the last time we were here together.

• 0:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  The way you talk about New York is like, we both didn't live here for so many years.

• 0:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I was on my way over. I was building the case. I was like, I will tell her I lived here twice as long as her. And I was like, no one's gonna care about that.

• 0:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  No one's gonna argue with that. I'm not trying to fight you on that.

• 0:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I really was like, how much? Do you ever have those moments where you're like, how much longer is somebody gonna let me get away with this?

• 0:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Every day in my marriage. Every day.

• 1:03Rayna Greenberg?

  And every day in mine.

• 1:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, this is great. So glad to be here. Well, we will have just, we won't be here any longer. As we record, I'm gonna be here the whole week. I'm really excited.

• 1:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you'll see. You'll see what it's like to live in New York.

• 1:20Rayna Greenberg?

  What are you doing this week? I don't, I don't actually know.

• 1:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  You don't know?

• 1:23Rayna Greenberg?

  You said you have plans every day. You actually have not given me the rundown. I only know about tonight.

• 1:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, here's the itinerary. So as we're recording on a Monday, just one week from when this episode drops. So we're recording today and tomorrow. We have guests and a snack and everything. I'm doing Page Six Radio this week, which will be really fun. You love them. They are so fun. We are both doing this like man on the street thing that's gonna be really fun. And I am gonna peruse some homes.

• 1:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  To buy here, just looking.

• 1:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, you want to get a feel for?

• 1:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to get a feel.

• 1:58Rayna Greenberg?

  So you're not going to buy something right now?

• 2:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, Raina, I'm going to be honest with you. It's about time.

• 2:04Rayna Greenberg?

  It's sunny.

• 2:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were at D'Ami with your husband the other night and I was like, should be straight. Are we moving to New York or not? I'm not gatekeeping to you guys or to Raina. We truly don't know what the plan is. Raina will discuss her own plan soon, but I don't want to rent again. Whatever happens, like, we love LA and we're happy in our house in LA. We will stay there. We can stay there as long as we want, honestly. We have that flexibility, but I want to buy next. And if it's here, I want to see what's going on and I want to look around at my budget. This is a great Realtor.

• 2:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's this hot bald guy that you had in your Instagram story at a wedding and people were like, what's happening?

• 2:44Rayna Greenberg?

  My longtime friend.

• 2:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's a friend. So I'm doing that this week and then doing some different things. I'm going to do some press for my special. I announced that last week. That is going to be on April 30th on YouTube and on May 1st on Prime Video.

• 2:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm so excited.

• 2:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Here Comes The Bride. I cannot wait for you guys to see it. So some things for the special too. And then we have a really good friend turning 40 and having a birthday party over the weekend.

• 3:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so you're stacked.

• 3:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stacked. Dinners every night.

• 3:08Rayna Greenberg?

  You're going to see that you like it.

• 3:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Plans every night.

• 3:10Rayna Greenberg?

  See, I don't know about the plans every night.

• 3:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Some shows at the stand, have that one party.

• 3:14Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, I think I'm caught up now.

• 3:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have dinner Friday night, I have the birthday party Saturday night.

• 3:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Who are you going to dinner with on Friday?

• 3:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Kelly and Luisa.

• 3:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know. You didn't tell me about this.

• 3:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  You did. You said I have plans every night. I was like, I don't know about this.

• 3:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you want to know more? I'm going to go to Barry's with Anna Roisman probably this week at some point.

• 3:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Probably see Bobby. You're looking at me glaring.

• 3:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't know. I didn't know about all this. Usually I get the schedule.

• 3:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  All right, let's thank our partners.

• 3:36Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, we'll thank our partners and we'll jump right into it. Thank you to Rocket Money. Reach your financial goals faster at rocketmoney.com/gge. And The Testaments. Watch The Testaments now, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. For bundle subscribers, terms apply.

• 3:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to FP Movement. Go to fpmovement.com to shop their full line of activewear and workout gear. And thank you to Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at liquidiv.com with code GGE. And Zbiotics. Get 15% off at zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Okay, so we were both, as we record, over the weekend, Easter Passover weekend with our families. I was in Delaware, you were in Pittsburgh, and we got to be with our nephews. We were saying, there was so much happy Easter, happy Passover, more than any other year.

• 4:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so when you said that to me, I was like, this is crazy. So I'm not religious, I'm agnostic. If I could pick a religion, it'd be Judaism, I like the traditions, but I don't celebrate any holidays. Continuously, all day, people kept saying happy Passover to me. And, I mean, it's not even, there's two primary Jewish holidays, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, it's not one of them. So, also for people to be like, happy Passover, like, I was like, oh, it's Passover? Like, no one's ever wished me happy Passover in my entire life. And I went to a Jewish school, like, I was so shocked by it. And I said to another friend, I was like, it's like my fifth or sixth happy Passover. And then I kept hearing happy Easter. I mean, everybody, the car attendant at the airport, the guy who checked me in, the pilot, I don't, I was like, sure.

• 5:12Rayna Greenberg?

  And then you said, what is with everybody saying happy Easter continuously?

• 5:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, and then I became part of the problem. I don't even think it's a problem, but I leaned into it too. I'm saying happy Easter to everybody. And when I told people I was going home for this weekend, people were like, oh, for Easter? But, you know, I'm not religious, but I, of course, say Merry Christmas, we celebrate Christmas, we do Easter with the boys, I haven't celebrated Easter until my nephews came along for years, we did when we were kids, whatever. So, people were like, oh, we went in for Easter? I'm like, no, that's not a thing I would like go home for. If you do, great, for you. But then, once I got there, and then it felt like so many people were in dewy Rehoboth, like, for the holiday weekend, it was also spring break, and so, it was everywhere, and then I just loved it. I just leaned it, happy Easter to everybody, I was saying happy Easter to everybody.

• 5:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then, I just was like, I think people just want to feel joy, and it feels nice to do happy holidays. Like, do you remember, was it 2024, when Halloween was so on steroids? It was a dark time in the country.

• 6:12Rayna Greenberg?

  It was two years ago, yes, it was. 2024, I was like, every place in New York City is decked.

• 6:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was like bleak, we were like, is Donald Trump gonna win the presidency? I mean, there was a lot of hope too, obviously, for Kamala, but it was just like, we were on edge, and I think it reflected in Halloween decorations, and I think people lean into holidays when times are hard. And so, I think I go harder on Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Easter, like, let's just feel some joy, let's just be, say the word happy, and maybe we will become...

• 6:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that this is a good take because like especially at the airport like I could cry talk I've been at the airport a lot lately I could cry looking at and talking to TSA workers and I was at um at the Austin airport the other day and this one chased me down she was a TSA worker and she was like I love your podcast and I was like I was like I love TSA workers thank you for being here how has it been for you and she was like it's been so unbelievably terrible and I could like cry thinking about it but like I have been like overly like happy Easter and thank you like just nicer to people because it feels so nice to just be nice to each other.

• 7:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love to do any sort of greeting or sign off what's anything have a good night you know I just love to to do it whatever it may be so it just feels like we're just saying it right I can't I haven't told anybody. This is a exclusive reveal I was in the Philly airport I just landed and I saw this person working and he was like posted up doing with security whatever and I smiled at him and it was an ICE agent huh actually no actually no I was like what should what do I do now do I do I glare at him do I

• 7:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Do I go back?

• 7:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do I give him the finger do I go back I didn't mean it.

• 7:49Rayna Greenberg?

  You go back and you're like I would like to take that back you know that positive interaction we just had.

• 7:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Smile nice smile like keep up the good work is what my face said.

• 7:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay to your defense do they just look like they're officers like you'd have to read the badge?

• 8:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  This was the first time I saw them so and jump scare like I haven't seen ICE agents yet in airports this is the first time I've flown since they've been in the airports.

• 8:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 8:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I hadn't seen them so I wasn't used to it and it did take me a minute to realize that it says whatever Homeland Security like on their like I didn't realize there were

• 8:19Rayna Greenberg?

  It takes a second and I've been like I've been training myself to say does that say TSA does that say clear like I want to make extra care.

• 8:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  TSA was blue right like I

• 8:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know who knows sometimes.

• 8:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  It threw me off I had three hours of sleep I'd been on a long flight like I couldn't I just like walked to baggage just fucked up from it with that regret.

• 8:38Rayna Greenberg?

  That's worse than when the Uber driver says have a nice flight and you say you too.

• 8:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys, to give a appreciate the work, keep up the good work, have a nice afternoon.

• 8:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley, I feel for you.

• 8:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  To an ICE agent.

• 8:52Rayna Greenberg?

  You thought it was the security at the airport, just keeping the airport safe. And it takes a second, because it doesn't say ICE in big block letters.

• 8:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 8:59Rayna Greenberg?

  And the TSA does, they look like law enforcement also, and you have to read the badge to make sure you know what they... It's not your fault.

• 9:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you.

• 9:05Rayna Greenberg?

  And I actually have been like really enjoying these videos of people screaming at them in the airports, yelling like, "Fuck you," and giving them the fingers, and they can't really do that much, I don't think.

• 9:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't, I haven't, that's bold.

• 9:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm a little scared to do that.

• 9:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I would not encourage it. It's crazy to act like that in an airport. I didn't know you were allowed to do that. I was so tired, because I think if I was in another state, maybe I would have yelled back, like, "I didn't mean that."

• 9:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know, like, just go back, just...

• 9:30Rayna Greenberg?

  It's not your fault.

• 9:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hey, did you notice that I smiled at you? He probably would have been like, "Yeah, thank you." "No, I take it back."

• 9:36Rayna Greenberg?

  And you're, you know, maybe to film it for you?

• 9:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, it's not your fault, because you just thought it was like people keeping us safe.

• 9:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 9:43Rayna Greenberg?

  And you didn't know better.

• 9:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so I kind of want to tell you a funny restaurant story. I just love just day-to-day, mundane, funny stuff that ends up to be funny when you kind of run it back. So we go to this restaurant, I was with two of my childhood friends, Cory and Laura, and in Wilmington, Delaware, it was like a new spot, they opened up, whatever. So we go in and the energy is, we're new and we're trying to get people in this restaurant. We're the only people there at 11:30 when they opened, like, we're, they open the doors at 11:30, early lunch. So the hostess is like so excited, I think she just saw like girly pops, and she's like, "Oh my God." So she like sits us down at the table, and she's like, "Girls, you have got to come back for our happy hour." And she gives us all the happy hour rundown. I'm thinking, "I'm never coming back here." No offense, just logistically, I'm not coming back up to this restaurant in Wilmington, just where it is, whatever. But we're like, "We can't wait, we'll be back," you know, whatever. And she's like, "Deandre will be right with you."

• 10:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I was like, "Okay." So Deandre comes over, that's our server, just white guy, looks like he should be named Chad, but alas, he was named Deandre. So he's wonderful. And he sets the menus down on the table, and he's like, giving us the whole rundown of farm-to-table, these are the farms, he's naming farms.

• 10:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Naming farms.

• 10:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Literally, like, and I'm like, "Oh, this is..."

• 10:45Rayna Greenberg?

  This seems like a spoof for like Portlandia.

• 10:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Literally, like, he was like, "We're farm-to-table," you know, brand-new restaurant concept, farm-to-table in Wilmington, Delaware. And he's just saying like hyping and how everything's so fresh and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, great. So when he comes back around, I noticed that one of the menu pages had like a coffee list. And the bottom half was like espresso drinks, latte, cappuccino. The top half said, our coffees. And it said, regular Colombian, Costa Rican, French vanilla. And I'm like, what are these? Are these coffee drinks? Or they have like beans? Like, they have like a whole coffee program here.

• 11:20Rayna Greenberg?

  You like, you would like this.

• 11:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. So I'm like, Deandre, what's the deal with the coffees? I'm like, I see French vanilla. Is that like a latte? And then the Costa Rican, like all these different types of coffees? You guys are like, is that the beans? He goes, they're K cups.

• 11:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  He goes, that's Keurig.

• 11:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I said, I just don't think you should have shared that with me. And now I'm questioning the farms also.

• 11:46Rayna Greenberg?

  The one thing does not equal the other. That is crazy. You don't see those two things together. He knew the name of the farms, but they're doing K cups through single use plastic for the coffee.

• 11:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  When I, but the way they have our coffees and there's like 10 coffees.

• 12:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, the tell was that they said Colombian and French vanilla. Those ones of flavor, ones of location.

• 12:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. So I was like, okay. And I'm thinking, I don't think Deandre should have shared that. And so I end up getting a latte. And then I did later, we stayed there for hours just catching up. And I was like, I could use their coffee. So I ordered the French vanilla and it was so clearly a K cup. No shade. I love a K cup.

• 12:23Rayna Greenberg?

  You could tell?

• 12:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, you can tell the taste. So then we pay the bill. He comes back over. He was like, is anyone's birthday here? And like, I was like, oh, they're gonna do something special. And Cory was in the bathroom. I'm like, it's her birthday. Her birthday is in May. It's fine, it's close enough, whatever.

• 12:36Rayna Greenberg?

  He was just guessing, like hopefully someone's birthday is present.

• 12:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  He wanted to do something. I could tell he wanted to do something. I tell, I really liked our table. We were like, he was like, is anyone's birthday over here? I was like, yeah, it's her birthday. She's in the bathroom. It's her birthday. Her birthday's next month. He was like, okay, I got you. I was like, you guys do a whole thing? He was like, oh, yeah. And I'm like, okay. So I'm like, we're getting a dessert.

• 12:52Rayna Greenberg?

  He wanted to do this birthday thing.

• 12:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're getting a dessert. What are you thinking we're getting?

• 12:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I think the whole restaurant's gonna sing to you and obviously you're gonna get a dessert.

• 13:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  So Deandre comes back over with a manager and there's an envelope in hand. And he's like, the manager comes over. He was like, don't worry, we're not gonna sing or anything. But we just want to say thank you for spending your birthday here at the name of the restaurant. And they hand Cory an envelope.

• 13:16Rayna Greenberg?

  I said, where's the dessert?

• 13:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is it a gift card?

• 13:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I said, all that for...

• 13:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  To meet the manager?

• 13:23Rayna Greenberg?

  You could've just complained.

• 13:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  You could've just asked him to move tables and complained.

• 13:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I said, open that right now. It better be something free. If it's a card, if it's a card-

• 13:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  It better be a gift card I could put towards this check.

• 13:38Rayna Greenberg?

  It was a free appetizer for next time.

• 13:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  They did the whole-

• 13:41Rayna Greenberg?

  They made the whole manager come out. He surveyed the table for a birthday. That's how bad they wanted you guys to come back. Actually, this isn't even a thing that they do. They probably made that coupon right there.

• 13:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  100%.

• 13:52Rayna Greenberg?

  And then they got the-

• 13:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  From start to finish, desperation from every level.

• 13:56Rayna Greenberg?

  And I'm not going back if you want me that badly.

• 13:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  If we had a great experience, but I was like, to actually sell me on lying to you about a birthday and there's no dessert involved?

• 14:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I know, I've lied to you and I would like my prize now.

• 14:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Deandre, you could've just stuck the coupon in the bill.

• 14:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 14:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  You could've just been like, ladies, it's been a pleasure. Come back, have an appetizer on me. Why do we need to do the birthday thing and bring the manager out?

• 14:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, he's like, it's your birthday now, but what I'm gonna do is give you a future gift. Why don't I get the free appetizer now, on my birthday now?

• 14:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I'm like, are they telling them like, hey, guys, get those appetizer coupons out when it's people's birthdays? Like, the fact that he came or he looked so pleased with himself and the manager by his side-

• 14:37Rayna Greenberg?

  It was a corporate directive, yes.

• 14:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just give it to us and say, it's been a pleasure having you for three hours. Here's a coupon.

• 14:43Rayna Greenberg?

  100%. Why did we need to make everybody lie about their birthday?

• 14:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then I was like, do we think a dessert is coming out? Like, why, we did that for no ice cream or cake.

• 14:55Rayna Greenberg?

  And you don't even like lying.

• 14:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, anyway, I just like, thought that was like a funny restaurant experience.

• 15:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I had a weird restaurant situation. Also, then I'll just tell you, we really have to go, but I'll tell you.

• 15:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 15:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I was in Austin, I spent one night alone and I didn't know what to do. And Matt, who opens my tour, lives there and he's like, you gotta go to this place sushi by scratch. It's this amazing, like, Omakase experience. It's 10 seats a night and it's like so special and different. I was like, great, so I signed up for it. I've never been to a really private sushi omakase like that and I probably wouldn't have gone had I known because it's a really like intimate experience.

• 15:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  With 10 people in there.

• 15:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, it's 10 people in there and it ended up only being nine people. So it's like me and three other couples and this like father and son and they explain every single bite to you and there's like a bartender, two sushi chefs and the main guy. And it was really special, very expensive experience. It's just, it's tight. It's uncomfortable. It's quiet. People don't really know what to do. It's just, it's quiet. I mean, you're in this room. There's no windows. It's really fancy. It was unbelievably delicious. If you have the opportunity to go there, do go. But it was me and like a few couples and I'm sitting in this room. No one is speaking to each other. Every, there's like-

• 16:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Music?

• 16:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't recall there-

• 16:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you don't recall, then I want rap music at sushi places, but that's just me. So not music that's loud or memorable?

• 16:11Rayna Greenberg?

  No, not at all. And she sees couples, somebody's like clearly on a first date. I'm sitting next to this married couple. They are not speaking to each other. I'm like, I'm just like, I guess we'll just all have this meal in silence. I mean, the staff is fighting for their life, trying to like entertain people and talk to them. And this like bartender from the other side of the sushi counter is like, so they know your names and everybody's name by, so they know like what you like and what your allergies are. And this guy was like, Serena, are you from Austin? I was like, no, I'm just visiting. And he was like, what brings you here? And I was like, I'm about to become the most popular person in this room. He's like, what are you visiting for? I was like, on a show. And he was like, you went to a show? And I was like, I was the show. Every person just perks up and he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm a comedian. The whole vibe in the room-

• 16:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why would you do this?

• 16:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I saved the night because I was a little drunk. That's why. And I was sick of sitting there in silence.

• 16:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel like I'm about to show off. Show off and show out.

• 16:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I couldn't sit there in silence any longer.

• 16:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  So then what?

• 17:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I was, everybody wanted to talk to me. I saved everyone's marriage. I saved the whole evening. By the end of this married couple that was sitting next to me not speaking to each other, he was yelling, pour a shot in my mouth daddy at the sushi chefs. No one was speaking until I called him in there.

• 17:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  It turned into spring break, 1999.

• 17:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Everyone was taking shots, pouring more drinks.

• 17:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Signing titties. Why is this first time you're hearing about this?

• 17:23Rayna Greenberg?

  This couple was taking photos.

• 17:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  They're eating sushi off your tits.

• 17:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, then I became the table.

• 17:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I really was angling for one of the couples to pay for my dinner because I-

• 17:37Rayna Greenberg?

  There was this hot rancher man sitting next to me and he owned a ranch and like that was the guy yelling, "Put it in my mouth daddy." I was, he seemed like the most masculine guy there. I was like, "He got loose."

• 17:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like a sketch or a sitcom.

• 17:51Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 17:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  The pin drop quiet and then you're like, "Watch me turn this place the fuck up."

• 17:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I saved everyone's marriage. I saved the evening. It's just, I was like, "This is so great." Yeah, I know. I really was angling for somebody to buy my dinner and not get fans, but I did offer people free tickets to my show and everything.

• 18:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is what we said. You're gonna be out barking trying to get those tickets.

• 18:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I barked at that dinner.

• 18:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're gonna come to a free comedy show?

• 18:12Rayna Greenberg?

  It's guerrilla marketing grassroots.

• 18:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, those are our restaurant antics. Girls gotta eat as always. This is a food podcast, a food and dining podcast. But we're just gonna talk about our partners and then we will get into with Nico today. So excited to have him back. And if you know, you know that when we had him the first time, we had an issue with the video that got lost.

• 18:32Rayna Greenberg?

  And I immediately went into surgery the next morning.

• 18:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh my God. Yes. This was not our fault at all. And so we haven't had like a full video with him. And so we're really excited to have him today. But I'm gonna tell you guys about FP Movement. Oh my gosh. This is the brand that Rain and I wear all the time. This is Free People's Activewear brand. I was just posting a bunch of Instagram stories about it right before I went out of town. And we both have the Hot Shot crossover set, which we are obsessed with. We get asked about it all the time. We both have it in the dark espresso color. I have it in black. So many different colors. There's like yellow and reds and pinks and great colors for spring. So you have to get that Hot Shot crossover set. They have amazing shorts and sports bras. The Don't Let Go sports bra is like

• 19:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  one of the best sports bras I've ever owned and just like super cute. I love their layering tops that you can just throw on before or after workout. The bags, we both have these really like, I don't know how to describe them. They're like really comfy.

• 19:28Rayna Greenberg?

  It's like a quilted bag.

• 19:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Quilted bags.

• 19:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it.

• 19:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then I have this puffer jacket. It's called the Pippa. Rain, I'm obsessed with traveling with it.

• 19:35Rayna Greenberg?

  It folds up really quick.

• 19:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's so small.

• 19:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then it looks like a puffer. That's one thing I have on my trip. So we just love it so much. You have your performance meets personality, these great colors, unique silhouettes. And again, stuff to work out, but also post workout, also just lounge. I mean, we have so many items from FP. Movement that we wear it to record in and we are just such big fans of. So you guys can check them out, emphasize both function and fashion. Visit fpmovement.com to shop their full line of activewear and workout gear.

• 20:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. I want to tell you guys about a new show that you can watch now. A new dawn rises in Gilead from the executive producers of The Handmaid's Tale. Comes the Testaments, a new Hulu original series based on a novel by Margaret Atwood. Golden Globe nominee Chase Infinity plays a dutiful teen Agnes, who guides newcomer Daisy through the halls of Aunt Lydia's elite preparatory school for future wives, where obedience is instilled brutally. With no connection to the outside world, the daughters of Gilead commanders start to challenge authority, seek independence and explore their identity. This is just the beginning of their reckoning. The series explores friendship, empowerment and resilience, and what coming of age means for young women in a society that affords them no rights.

• 20:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Agnes and Daisy's bond becomes the catalyst that will upend their past, present and future. Raised to obey, but destined to defy. There's nothing more powerful than a teenage girl. And you can watch The Testaments now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 21:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And Liquid IV. This show is sponsored by Liquid IV. Another thing I can't live without, threw these in my bag, of course, as I'm on a trip this week. So Liquid IV is going to hydrate you faster than water alone. It has three times the electrolytes of a leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients, all in a single stick. So it is just a packet that you're gonna just cut or rip open, put it in a glass of, I like ice cold water, but just water, 60 ounces of water, and just drink it. And the flavors are incredible. There are sugar-free flavors, if you want that, Mandarin orange, rainbow sherbet, mango pineapple, and then there are regular flavors, which is what I usually choose. And I like the lemon lime, the guava and the grapefruit. Those are my favorite.

• 21:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  So the three times electrolytes, like we mentioned, eight essential vitamins and it will retain hydration for up to four hours. So it's just so important to stay hydrated. I mean, when you're not, you feel it in your body, you see it in your face, you feel it if you're working out or whatever you're doing, working out in the bedroom, whatever you're doing, you're like, I'm dehydrated. It helps your whole body stay hydrated. You know what I'm talking about.

• 22:08Rayna Greenberg?

  And I love it when I travel also because it comes in these little packets and I really just like, you start to feel kind of run down when you're traveling. Also, summer travel's coming up and it's just good to keep you like really going.

• 22:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you guys can check it out. It is backed by a scientific advisory board with world renowned researchers to conduct clinical research and trials. You really can trust it. And again, just one stick and 16 ounce of water hydrates faster than water alone. Powered by LIV Hydroscience and optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential items and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. You can soak up unforgettable memories with on the go hydration from Liquid IV. Tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code GGE at checkout. That's 20% off your first purchase with code GGE at liquidiv.com.

• 22:55Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, guys, we are very excited to welcome back a guest to our show. He is a dating guru and the voice behind the wildly popular account, The Daddy Academy, where he breaks down questionable dating behavior and modern relationships. He's a current contestant on the Unwell Winter Games and the host of The Daddy Academy podcast. Please welcome back to the show, Nico Emmandoulis.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Wait, you just said it right.

• 23:17Rayna Greenberg?

  You just got it. Why'd you do that?

• 23:19Speaker 00

  You just choked.

• 23:20Rayna Greenberg?

  You had it. You nailed it.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  You nailed it the first time.

• 23:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I got scared.

• 23:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Literally what's happening.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  She just had a stroke.

• 23:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  She literally panicked.

• 23:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Two seconds ago, I confirmed, I have a phonetic problem. It's spelled out. I was like, she's gonna do it.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  No, that was all, it's all right.

• 23:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I fucked up the, you guys, I fucked up the landing.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  It's all right. It's all right. I forgive you.

• 23:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, we're so glad to have you back because you were on the show two years ago via Zoom, right?

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Zoom, yeah.

• 23:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And the place we recorded, they never hit record on your end.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Right. So not only was I not there in person, they fucked, the Zoom got fucked.

• 23:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I will say, we have Just really watched your career blossom.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  You really have.

• 23:55Rayna Greenberg?

  We just, I think I found you on TikTok and you were blowing up on TikTok.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:59Rayna Greenberg?

  And I was like, Raina, we gotta have this guy on. And now just even seeing it, just like the set and like you're doing TV. You have your podcast. Like, I just love to see it.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  No, I appreciate you guys a lot. I think you kind of, you gave me that.

• 24:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Discovered you.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you discovered me. No, you put me on the map, like, as far as like the first real podcast that I went on was like you guys. And I really appreciate you guys giving me that platform. It's really, and then I did your holiday special show, the live show. Well, yeah.

• 24:23Rayna Greenberg?

  There's not a lot of men that are making this type of content really approachable. And like, sometimes I see men giving advice to other men and I'm like, you're so full of shit. I know you're a bad person on the inside. So performative.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  It's such a weird space. And I think like, there's a lot of guys are doing what I'm doing. But you could just tell it's coming from a place of like, oh, I know that this content works for women.

• 24:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  And I'm just like driving at home to get followers. Grifters, right.

• 24:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  So the thing about me is like, and I probably told this on the last time I was on the show, like, I started making this content because I wanted to help men. I wanted to help young men like myself who, you know, I had confidence when I was younger, but I wasn't like Mr. Swab with the ladies. But I kind of gained that through time and kind of learned and just through the morals of how I grew up with my family, my parents still together after 30 years. So like, I had like a really good foundation, the man that I wanted to be. So I wanted to help kind of young men like myself. I say it's like, I have the powers. You could choose how you want to use it, but like, I'm going to recommend you kind of use it this way, right? So that's why I wanted to teach men. So I was posting and maybe for like six months, got a few thousand followers. And my sister was like, why don't you make videos for women? Like, you've helped me and my friends for years. I'm like, that's a good idea.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  And I made one video and it went viral. So then I just kept answering women's questions.

• 25:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  And then it kind of turned into that. And then the way I kind of look at it, like, everything happens for a reason. So I'm like, okay, I'm meant to be this guy in this space right now.

• 25:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that you speak to men, but you also just speak to women about like, this behavior sucks. It's not acceptable.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  Right, it's true.

• 25:48Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't have to be so mad about it, but do move on from this person.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  For sure. It's just, it's like one of those common sense kind of things, but it's hard when you're wrapped up in someone or a situation to like, be able to step away from it.

• 25:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I think there's so many behaviors that like are so bad from both sexes, but. You get to know somebody a little bit and you start making excuses for them and it's easy to just sort of like look the other way and you're like, well, people are people and like, where's the line?

• 26:09Speaker 00

  Well, you need to create your lines. You need to know what your standards and your boundaries are and it's all through reference experience, right? Like if you're one person who's been with somebody, let's say you're in like a toxic six year relationship. And then they're coming out and they're trying to date again, their only reference experience is this one horrible thing. So they either repeat that pattern. Or you kind of got to break them out of it. So everyone's dating through the lens of the reference experiences that they know.

• 26:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally. And having sex. We always say like, you think this person likes this because the last person liked it.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  Right, right. That's actually, that's actually a really good point. It's a really good point.

• 26:43Rayna Greenberg?

  You say what women, I feel like, want to say. And I'll say whatever, but I think there's this thing that women want to be like, "Men, stop fucking acting like this," but you don't want to come across like bitter or like you've been wrong. So you say the thing that I think women are like, "Yes, fucking yes. I guess you should pay."

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Yes. And I, and it was a good segue into the like, the low effort date thing.

• 27:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say I went to Amanda and West, which is my whole personality. But I actually, you know, that was so interesting because like, thank you so much for bringing that in.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for bringing that up.

• 27:14Rayna Greenberg?

  You thank it yourself?

• 27:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank you, Raina. Thank you, Raina, for changing the subject. Okay, one thing about Amanda West that I was thinking when you were talking was that you see this girl who was in a terrible relationship for 10 years. And the next guy she jumps to is pretty awful to women.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Well, well, I mean, that's actually a really good point. I always say to people, your biggest heartbreak isn't gonna be that long relationship you end. It's gonna be the first situationship you get into right after that long relationship. That is gonna be your biggest heartbreak. So if they break up, she's gonna be thinking about West for years and not even give a fuck about her ex husband.

• 27:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I sent her an episode a couple of days ago. That's a hot take.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  It's a hot take, but it's true.

• 27:53Rayna Greenberg?

  When a real relationship ends, you feel like I had agency in this ending. When somebody just fucks with you and fucks with you and you probably knew better. It is really hard to forgive yourself.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Well, that's what a lot of people, it's like, it's the forgiving yourself for like being stupid.

• 28:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. And I mean, I have like let people treat me a certain way where I'm like, I knew better. All my friends, my friends knew better. I walked into this knowing better. I literally hurt my own feelings. Your friends didn't just know better. They told you better.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  They told you.

• 28:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Don't do this. Raina, please don't do this. I did it. She's like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. I did it.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  No, but like, but that's the thing. Sometimes like when I'm giving women advice, like I just saw something today. Like I was gonna make a video about it. It was a, it was a TikTok and the girl, it's a, it was a video of a guy like sitting on her bed. It says blocked on all social media, but he's eating chicken Alfredo next to me in bed at 8 a.m. That's insane. I'm like, what are you doing with him in your bed? You're blocked on everything.

• 28:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, she's admitting?

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's admitting it. Like, oh, like he's blocked, we're blocked on everything, but he's in my bed.

• 28:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just like glamorizing toxicity.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Yes. It's like, it's not he, he, he. It's bad. Even like, you know, we're talking about on the, on well, winter games, our society is pushing toxicity. Like that is what's popular. That's what gets clicks. That's what gets attention. So like being like, it's, it's not funny. I don't find it fun. It's kind of like, it's, yeah, sure. Maybe it's a little entertaining sometimes, but it's not like, what, what, what are we, what example are we setting for people? If that's what we're pushing, you know?

• 29:17Rayna Greenberg?

  But it is what gets clicks. It's what gets you scenes on reality TV. There's a real reward system for people to act really badly on these shows.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  What does that say about us?

• 29:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did you say Alfredo in bed?

• 29:27Speaker 00

  That's what it's saying. Yeah, right.

• 29:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  What?

• 29:29Rayna Greenberg?

  That's your real problem is the fettuccine Alfredo.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  Now, it's eight o'clock in the morning. That a choice of food is.

• 29:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm not an eating in bed kind of gal, but. Fettuccine Alfredo in bed?

• 29:38Rayna Greenberg?

  These people are toxic for that.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that alone.

• 29:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, you had to cook that. Like you can't take fettuccine Alfredo out of the fridge and eat it cold. It's just, you made that.

• 29:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Probably got in the door dash.

• 29:48Rayna Greenberg?

  At 8 a.m.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  No, but you'd have to, you'd have to put in the microwave or you can't eat.

• 29:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Those people are, they deserve each other. Honestly, they should be together. I'm sure like dating patterns change over the years. What are you seeing a lot right now of like bad behavior?

• 30:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 30:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Or debatable behavior, not bad.

• 30:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what? Like, I think the thing that people come to me the most, like they always say that there's two sides of dating. There's like the tactical side, which is like the X's and O's of like how you should navigate like the texting and the dates and observing interests. Then the other side of it is like, how are your feelings of like self-worth, your limiting beliefs, your past patterns? Like, how is that affecting like what's manifesting into your reality? Because dating is kind of like a mirror in a lot of ways. I think a lot of people, it's getting to the bottom of like, what is that pattern that you keep attracting? Into your life and until you're like very aware of what that is because we all have a pattern.

• 30:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 00

  And a lot of times we attract like the toxic version of the mirror reflection. Until you kind of like learn from it, keep rejecting that as it keeps coming because hippie dippy woo wah, the universe, God, whatever, keeps sending you these tests. And until you keep rejecting them, then you're at the place and at the frequency where the right person is going to come. So a lot of it is like being aware of that because a lot of people are just kind of like that throwing themselves back into dating or avoiding it altogether. So I think there's two, like I hear people will say like, oh, I don't want to date again. I don't want a man to disrupt my peace. I have my peace.

• 31:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  You see a lot of that, yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  Right. But to me, that's to a degree. Okay. You take a few months to kind of get your mojo going again. But if you're like years and I'm not dating, you learn the most about yourself through relationship. Not through being alone, being alone, everything's great. If I'm just like going to the gym, going out with my friends every once in a while, ordering takeout, hanging out with my dog, watching Sex and the City, like, life's great. Nothing wrong with that. You need to be triggered in order to learn and grow about yourself. So when a lot of people kind of get into that mindset, like you have to get out on dates, you actually have to trigger yourself. That's how you're going to grow and learn and whether that person's meant for you or not, it doesn't really matter. Everyone's a learning experience, a growing experience until you're at the frequency and the point where you meet the right person. So like a lot of what I talk about ends up being a lot of that.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  And then the X's and O's are just a way to kind of give you the confidence to guide through that process. So it's kind of funny how it's kind of all ties together.

• 32:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, if you're at peace, actually, that's a good time, that's a good time to date, like to your point.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  But are you at peace or are you burying the trauma?

• 32:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  My guess, my point is if you actually are and you're like, I feel good, I feel stable, I feel mentally well, I feel emotionally well. That is a good time to date. It's a better time to date than when you're feeling depressed or anxious or sad or cat, like all those things.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 32:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I understand when people are like, and Rena does this, she's like, my life is great and I don't want a man disrupting it, but how long?

• 32:41Speaker 00

  But how long of a period? Right.

• 32:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  What place would you like to be in, not you specifically, what place would you like to be in to let a man?

• 32:46Speaker 00

  And disrupt it like when things are going worse than like, I don't know. Right, right. It is, but it's, you know, if you're out of a relationship, yeah, you need a certain amount of time to like heal to the point where like, I'm not thinking about that past relationship anymore. But once you're not thinking about that past relationship anymore, and you say that you want relationship, then you have to start putting yourself out there. Yeah. If you're not, then you're avoiding it because you don't want to be hurt, which nobody wants to be hurt. And I do get it. I had this point in my life where I was like, I said on the podcast years ago, I was like, everything is going so well. I don't want an outside force to come in and disrupt it and like, crack the glass bubble, but like you could live like that forever. You could live like that forever. Yeah. And some people do.

• 33:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I think you have to choose. Everything's hard, right?

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, everything's hard.

• 33:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I think when you're single, people really miss companionship and partnership. Love is the thing. It's the best thing. It's the best feeling in the world. But I think dating is so hard today and there's so much bad behavior. And I dated so much last year and I had a lot of, not horrible experience, but just a lot of like, I don't need to deal with this type of experiences. And I am somebody who's like, I'm really proud of my life professionally. I spent all of last year like, being able to like go on tour with Ashley and watch her success and watch her wedding. And I had a great year last year. I'm having a great year this year. My life is really good. But you know, you do start to like have a couple of dates and people are shitty and there's so much bad behavior. And I, I understand. I want to validate people really saying like,

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 34:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I cannot, I don't want to disrupt what I've built here.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 34:05Rayna Greenberg?

  And I understand that too.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not neglected that men are horrible.

• 34:08Rayna Greenberg?

  We know, yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  I say it every day.

• 34:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not saying men are, I mean, listen, women are horrible too.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Yes, both genders have equal amounts of horrible traits in people.

• 34:17Rayna Greenberg?

  But I understand people saying like, I have been kicked in the teeth by eight people in a row and I just need a break.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you take a little break.

• 34:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  You take a few months.

• 34:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Right? Not a few years.

• 34:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  That's like, that's my advice. It's like, you're only hurting yourself at the end of the day, if you're doing that.

• 34:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Hmm.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  You know, if you want a relationship. If you want to find somebody. If you want to find somebody. So some content that you post about that I really like is this low effort dating unintentional.

• 34:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Does it mean low interest? Coffee dates, walks versus drag, you know?

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Sure. This is my personal opinion. So if you want a man like me, you should listen to this advice. No, I don't think I'm so great, but yeah, maybe I am. I'm a little great. So.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  But like, I would never ask a woman who I'm like, wow, like she's gorgeous. She seems really cool. Like I could see some potential here. I would never risk asking her on a coffee date as a first date. Because you want a man that wants to impress you off the bat, right? So if I'm going coffee, that means that I'm unsure if I even find you like attractive. In my opinion, because it's kind of like, I need to feel this out. A coffee date is I need to feel this out because I'm unsure if I want to invest more time, energy, money. Right? So especially a lot of guys nowadays, like they want to invest the money, right? Especially in a city like New York City, they don't want to spend money for, because you're going out in New York City. A hundred fifty, two hundred dollars, like easy.

• 35:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not for drinks.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Well, it depends. It depends. Well, like, are you going to a hula hands pub? Are you going to, are you going, are you going to like T gray or somewhere like somewhere cool, right?

• 35:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  It communicates to me that you're just not that into me. And that's okay. Some people, some people don't drink and some people are just trying to like find another activity.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  That I can understand. If the guy doesn't really drink, you don't really drink, like I can get that and get behind that.

• 36:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just, I don't know. It communicates to me you're just not that into me. You know, you're just like, I'll spend three dollars on this.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  I one hundred percent agree.

• 36:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I feel like I have so much to say because for, for years, I feel like we have been on record saying that a coffee date for a first date is a vibe check and it's fine and a walk is fine. You go to finish. And because I feel like, I feel like we've been saying that. But no one's ever asked me out on a coffee date and I've never actually had it happen. And if it did, I'd probably be like, I'm not worth drinks. Like to your point.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  They don't have to be like, let's go sit down. I don't want to do a dinner for a first date, by the way, too. But I've never had it happen and I might be a little like, huh, that's interesting. And that's all the time you have. Like you're trying to work your schedules out. You're like, we got a meeting on Saturday. You want to get a coffee.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  That's fine.

• 36:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I'm with you and I want to check myself on like, I've been saying this is fine, but I've actually never experienced it. And every guy that's asked me out and plenty of them didn't go well, has been like a place that was.

• 37:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Most of the dates thoughtful place that they wanted to get a drink. I don't want to go on a day date. An afternoon date. It's like you've scheduled me in between meetings. I don't just.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  It's not romantic.

• 37:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm like, I hold space to think like, I'm just a person you met on an app and I'm a stranger and why should you spend a bunch of money on me and a bunch of time? But like, I don't want, I just don't want it. Like, there's like the advice and then there's the reality of it. No one has ever asked me on a coffee date and I think I would be like, this fucking guy. And then a lot of women in the comments, because I was like, I gotta get in these comments. And people are pretty kind to you, you know, and I think they're like, want to just add their experience or their nuance. But I saw women being like, yeah, but I want to do a vibe check. And to your point, yeah, women want to do a vibe check. You kind of want the guy, whether he's right about you or not, you kind of want the guy that's like, I think you're hot and you seem cool from the one time we met or from the app, whatever. Women can be like, I want to do a vibe.

• 37:57Rayna Greenberg?

  You should want a guy that's excited about you from the jump.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 38:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Because women don't grow on men. Men grow on women.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Correct. That's exactly my point. If you as a woman want a vibe check coffee date, I'm okay with that. If you want to do that because it makes you feel more comfortable with somebody during the day, before you go out at night with a guy for safety reasons, like I'm totally on board with that. But I'm telling you what it means if a guy asks you on a coffee date. He's either cheap, because here the other reality and like, this is the more manipulative way of looking at it. A lot of men generally say to themselves, like, I should be able to sleep with her by three dates. If they're after more of a casual thing, I'm going to give it three dates. I should be able to get there, right? So a coffee date, five dollars, all right, that's already one. Right? Then on a second date, on a second date, they might go, hey, let's go dinner, right? Oh, I liked her. Now I'll pepper her with the dinner and then drinks and then drinks. And then maybe you hook up on the second date because he made it like this big marathon.

• 38:48Rayna Greenberg?

  He said the bar sold for the first day.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Yes, and then he rolls out the red carpet on a Saturday night. And maybe you'll be likely to sleep with him if you find him attractive, but he barely spent any money. So that's why I don't like the coffee dates and you kind of got to make an assumption for yourself based off somebody like, you know, make an assessment. But that's part of the reason.

• 39:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to put on makeup and put on an outfit and go out.

• 39:09Speaker 00

  You're romantic. You want a date to be romantic.

• 39:11Rayna Greenberg?

  We also talk about like making dating like easier and more fun. I just think if, if.

• 39:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Woman wants to do a coffee date or a walk, that's on her terms.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 39:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Guy should ask you out for a drink or whatever the fuck. Like, we have a friend that's dating hard and she's been through a lot and she's been through a long relationship, some health stuff, and she really takes things really slow and she prefers these dates that are, she does these walks and guys are asking her out for drinks and I think she's saying, "Let's take a walk" and they're like, "Yeah, you're hot." That's what I'm saying, it's on your terms. Like, you can pivot them and if they're interested, they'll take the fucking walk.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, they'll go on the walk.

• 39:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm like, "God damn that walk."

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Like, "I'll go on the walk," but, well, it depends on your vibe too. You might unintentionally create a platonic tone to the dynamic.

• 39:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 00

  Where you want a romantic tone to the dynamic.

• 39:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Daytime.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Daytime.

• 39:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Daytime platonic.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Daytime is platonic.

• 40:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want the sun to have set if we are on a date.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Yes, like, so like, that's where, are you setting yourself up for success that way? Like, probably not, but I understand if you want to do a vibe check, like, I get it.

• 40:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm with Ashley. If a woman wants to do that, fine.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 40:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, we're just gonna take a quick break and then we will get back into it. I'm telling you about Zbiotics. Okay, last night at dinner, we go to this like hotspot in New York City. Zbiotics was on the menu.

• 40:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I couldn't believe it.

• 40:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  As like a mocktail, like, no alcohol, and the people at the table next to us throwing back their Zbiotics.

• 40:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 40:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, "Oh, this is..."

• 40:30Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a thing.

• 40:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just chic.

• 40:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I think people just want to feel good.

• 40:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so we love seeing that and this is a great way to plan ahead so you can truly live your best life, especially when you're enjoying a few alcoholic drinks. So you can stay balanced with Zbiotics pre-alcohol before you start. So Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. So, we love this.

• 41:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I try to do it when I can, but if anything, I don't go that hard, but like on a special occasion, like a New Year's Eve or something like that, I always make sure I have it. It's just this little vial and again, just like throw it back, they're so easy to try. Travel with and you really will notice a difference the next day, whatever you're doing, especially if you have a workout the next day, you have plans, stuff to commit to, a podcast recording. So you guys can check it out because let's be real, usually a Friday night out means a Saturday morning spent canceling my workout class if you're like me. But since I started incorporating pre alcohol, my glass of wine doesn't disrupt my morning flow. Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash GGE and use the code GGE at checkout for 15% off.

• 41:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. And if you guys are looking for like one way to just get your finances in order, just one small, quick thing you can incorporate into your life, it is Rocket Money. So Rocket Money does all kinds of things. One of the things it can do is track subscriptions and they'll help you cancel unwanted ones within the app. I love this app. I love the user interface. It's so easy to use. They're going to help you track your spending. There's categorization across accounts. There's customizable categories and you can really watch your spending patterns. You can set budgets in the app and goals and get personal insights. And especially with summer coming up, I think we're all just like, I want to go crazy and take a vacation. And if you don't know what you can afford for the vacation, or you want more outfits, you want more swag, like, but you're not sure what your finances look like. This is a quick, easy thing that you can do to immediately get a full, clear picture of your spending. And Rocket Money has saved users over

• 42:35Rayna Greenberg?

  880 million in canceled subscriptions. And when I signed into the app, I was like, oh, I cannot believe all the stuff that I'm paying for that I had just signed up for 30 days and then I forgot, you know, you really can reach your financial goals faster with this. So I can't recommend it enough with automated, with automated, track your spending, create automated savings.

• 42:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  I should drink that Zbiotics.

• 42:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Abandon the word.

• 42:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  All about it.

• 42:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Keep this.

• 43:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, she'll try a fourth time. Nope. I'm in New York for three days ruining my life.

• 43:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Anyways, Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find, cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com slash GGE. That's rocketmoney.com slash GGE. Rocketmoney.com slash GGE.

• 43:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so if a man does not confirm the date with you, the day of.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  No go. So this would be.

• 43:33Rayna Greenberg?

  When is this happening? Women are saying to you, like, we made plans two, three days ago, and he just expects me to show up?

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Alright, so the mentality with a lot of guys, and like, this is sort of like the insecure mentality of, why do I need to be the one to show the interest and follow up? Like, if she's just as interested, why can't she confirm with me?

• 43:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Then I don't know how to teach it to you when you're not my guy. Who are these guys? Call them out by name.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  But that's, yeah, I wish I had their name.

• 43:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Why do I need to be the one? You have to. You just have to. Why is everything gonna be on me? The rest of the relationship, everything's gonna be on me too?

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Right, right, exactly. But that's why I just don't, I don't get where the mindset comes from. Because actually, these guys are doing themselves a disservice by, all you have to do is plan the date a few days ahead of time, three, four days ahead of time, that'd be perfect, right? Four days ahead of time, confirm, like, the day before. Like, what I would recommend doing is, like, the day before, you mentioned something over text, like, nodding to the date happening tomorrow. So then, like, you know, oh, we're definitely still on for tomorrow.

• 44:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  But then, the next day, let's say maybe, like, the day of the date, by like, noon or so, like, oh, I'm like, I can't wait for those margaritas later.

• 44:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Later tonight, yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, something, like, a little fun nod to it. But men don't understand, by showing that consistency early on, you're actually, like, making yourself more attractive, leading up to the date. It's like, oh, wow, he confirmed with me, which is the bare minimum stuff, but a lot of people don't do it. Because what used to work, and it still does work to some degree, the nonchalant man, for a fuck boy, it works. It works.

• 44:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, it breeds anxiety. You're spending all day being like, I don't know if I'm gonna see him later, and then you check in, and then he alleviates that stress. But of course I'm gonna see you later.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  But it's all, comes down to attraction, and how attractive you find the person is usually how much you're willing to actually put up with. So like, these really good-looking guys, or desirable guys, they will kind of play this and be able to get away with more, because you would have put up with, if you thought a guy was like, let's just say, like, a five, right? And he didn't answer you the day of, you'd be telling all your friends, this fucking guy.

• 45:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Audacity.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  The audacity. But like, if this guy's like, ah, a movie star, or whatever, you might wait it out, and like, oh, he's. He's gonna, he's gonna text me, he's gonna, so it's all about how attractive you find somebody equals how much you're being, gonna be willing to put up with. This is the reality. But, but the problem is there are a lot of like, what you would call like a nice guy, who are doing the right things, but these women don't find them attractive. So like, they're not even interested. So we have this like, Imbalance. Imbalance. That's, that's the problem. So like, what I want to do, I'll tell you with my show, like my podcast, but we're doing like a, a separate show where I'm gonna have like men on and like fix them, right? Yes. I can't fix a fuckboy who wants to be a fuckboy. No.

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Because I can't convince you to be, be good. I could help nice guys learn how to be more attractive. Yes. That's like, to make more eligible bachelors for women out there. But like, that's where the big split is. It all comes down to attraction. Can you give us a few of the tips or what you say to like, coach these nice guys? Yeah, like I, I do coaching calls with like men too. Not as many as women, but like, I do. And a lot of it is just, it's so funny because like, I'll, I'll, I'll explain it, but it's almost the same game. But it's with the, with, with good intention, right? So I was like talking to this, I don't want to totally give away the story, but he was talking. Give it away. He's not listening, actually he's not listening to this, that's fine. So there's this guy who he has basically like a work crush.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  And they're, they're talking and whatever and kinda wanted my help kinda navigating. Cause they went on a coffee walk date. That was the first thing he was like, I don't like that. And they didn't kiss. And then he asked her on another date and she flaked on it. Like, oh, I'm just getting back from a trip. I gotta. Oh, getting back from a trip. Yeah. So I'm like, off the bat, bad. She's friend zoning you. Yeah. So I'm like, what you have to do now at work is don't be so available for her. You kinda gotta like, let her come to you. Sit back, don't text her, text her, text her, text her. Like, so it's a lot of that. It's the game, but it's with good intention. Right. Right? So where a lot of guys do the game for, for bad intention. So it's kinda just a matter of like the person.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Like I, I was saying earlier, like, I can give you the powers. Are you using them for good or for evil? That's on you. I'm just the yo of the master. I'm just. Jedi master, I can't choose how you're gonna do, I'm gonna tell you what I think you should do. But the game is kind of the same, it's just the person, like the morals of the person, how the person wants to be, how the person, is he actually looking for a relationship, which this guy is. So it's like, okay, he is looking for a relationship. So I can kind of help him maneuver how he's texting, when he should ask her out again, this and that, to kind of like get the result that he wants, which would be the best result for her too, because she's looking for that, but if he's being too platonic and friendly, she's not even gonna find him attractive, which is the problem.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Well, she's already pulled back, so the answer is not for him to push harder. Exactly. I think sometimes people can hear this and they're like, this feels contradictory. It's like, you gotta just hear us out. It's human nature. It's not that you're saying be an asshole. No. It's saying be a little less, because you have pushed her away, and she's got to wonder, why did he pull back? And that is human nature. It's human nature. The too needy, too clingy, we're turned off, it's not working. If it was working, she would have gone on that second date. So you really only have one play here. We say this sometimes to women, we're like, you have one play left, and it is to do nothing, and it is to ignore. And again, like, call it a game if you want, but it's all you have left. At this point, I actually don't think this is a match. I don't think you guys are

• 49:01Speaker 00

  gonna work out, but if you think you might, you have one thing you can let to do.

• 49:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I think you can play the game a little better. I don't think you have to play games, but you can play the game. We all kind of want something that's a little hard to attain. That's, that's normal, and in the world always. And so if you just pull back a little bit.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  It's knowing that the other person has options, right? But how do you convey that is kind of like the thing. So with women, by doing nothing and not over-investing with your communication earlier on, you're not giving the signal to the guy that like, I need this. Yeah, absolutely. So like, if you do that, a guy will be like, I got this one already, basically. But I'm not saying don't show interest, but just show appropriate interest. So like, but with women, like you said, the default is actually to do less. Exactly. Like, when somebody doesn't confirm a date with you in the morning, you're not going on that. You have. That's just not having manners. I mean, yeah. You know, that's just beyond. That's rude, not intentional. It's not intentional and it's rude.

• 49:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley, if she didn't confirm with me, I'd be like, do we have plans?

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, right, right, right.

• 49:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I know she'll show up. We've been friends for a decade, but like, everybody else needs to check in with me in the morning.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  You have that experience with her, you've known her for so long, give somebody the benefit of the doubt if you've known them longer.

• 50:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure, but even she wouldn't do that to me, and it would be acceptable if she did. A new person, if you don't check in with me in the morning and confirm, I'm busy.

• 50:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you know you're supposed to. Everybody does.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Everybody knows they're supposed to.

• 50:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  So if you're not doing it, it means you care, you care so little, or you're doing it on purpose, which is worse.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Either way, it's on purpose.

• 50:23Rayna Greenberg?

  One of the people we ask our audience, like, what they want to hear from you, and some girl said, like, guys that don't check in with you to make sure you got home okay at night.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  My move there would generally be, well, like, if I could take an Uber with you, drop you off, and then go.

• 50:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, uh huh.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  I think that's kind of like a nice, happy medium. Well, in New York City, because, like, a lot of people maybe don't live in New York City.

• 50:41Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, people walk home at night by themselves. I do want a man to be like.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Then I would walk her home.

• 50:45Rayna Greenberg?

  I do want a man to check.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  I would have to walk you home.

• 50:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Like, I was telling you about my girlfriend. When we first met, she was staying at her friend's place in Brooklyn, and I live in Midtown. I took the Uber with her to Brooklyn.

• 50:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  And then took the Uber. So I went, like, completely, completely out of the way. We were having such a fun time, we wanted to keep talking.

• 51:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. It don't have to do, that's not a deal breaker for me if you don't.

• 51:07Rayna Greenberg?

  But the bare minimum is send the text. You gotta check in with me.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Yes, but I would say it was above and beyond.

• 51:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love it.

• 51:13Speaker 00

  But that's super high interest. So like, something like that is very high interest, right? Low interest would be not even confirming. But what, like, I would normally do, let's say, like, we're in a place where you're driving home, I'm driving home. As a guy, you could do two things. You'd be like, text me when you get home, right? So I'm telling you, text me when you get home.

• 51:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm interested in this, sure.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  So like, you check back in, I said, great, oh, I had such a wonderful time tonight, we gotta do it again soon. Oh, yes, I'd love that, too. Perfect little end to the night.

• 51:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  I think that's like the perfect end to the night. You just, like, us both leaving, and then I'm texting you, did you get home okay? Yeah, you could do that, too.

• 51:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I like that. Don't create work for me. If you, it's like, text me when you get home, I'm never gonna do it.

• 51:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just want you to check in with me.

• 51:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Just, you get home okay, I had a great time. Either way is fine, but like, text me when you get home feels a little effort. You gotta text me? Then you can, then he, then he could be like, but I told you to text me when you get home, you didn't text me. So you must sound like me.

• 51:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't want instructions.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get that.

• 52:01Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't, I don't want a project when I got home. You check in, it could feel performative. Text me when you get home can be performative. We know that at this point, men know that we want them to do it.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:10Rayna Greenberg?

  We want you to pick up the tab on the first date. We want you to check in that we got home okay. We want you to check in in the morning that we're gonna see you this evening. This is the lowest effort in the world.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  This is what I would call bare minimum.

• 52:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that we're all allowed to have our own boundaries of like what we want, what's not okay. And people are human and they wake up, they have a meeting and then, you know, their family member's sick and whatever. Things happen.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  Things happen.

• 52:30Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, I think it's a bare minimum. Men basically know the very small, basic things.

• 52:35Speaker 00

  Of course they do.

• 52:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, they have the internet too. So I have a question. Okay, so after the first date, let's talk about low effort dating. Cause we've got a couple of people that said like, I only see him once a week. I don't, he doesn't text me a lot. Or he makes plans to see me, but doesn't make a plan, plan. Like, let's see each other on Tuesday, but does like, all of this type of behavior.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  So I'm actually coming out with like a, like a digital course where I talk about, I call it like the phases of dating. Like there's four phases from first date to a relationship in a close proximity relationship. Like long distance, it's a little bit different.

• 53:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  But it's still kind of.

• 53:07Rayna Greenberg?

  What do you call the phases?

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Phase one is like dates one through three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12. Really, it's like within 12 dates and or like 12 weeks. Like, cause sometimes it starts to ramp up a little bit. First date to a relationship, at the most, it should take about three months. Could be a little bit sooner, could be a little bit later, but like roughly, that's kind of like the guide, right? So dates one through three should be one day per week.

• 53:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, okay.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Like, that I'm fine with. I think where we're talking about like casual, a lot of guys will go like Thursday night date. Like you had a great date, we're doing Saturday, right? And that's a quick turnaround, building a lot of emotional intensity really quick. Could lead to you end up sleeping with somebody, because if you have a good connection, you find each other.

• 53:48Rayna Greenberg?

  He wants to see me immediately, yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  Cause you gotta get to know somebody over an extended period of time. Dates, just like, oh, I saw her Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It's like, I've only known you for four days. I don't care how much we talked about, you get to know somebody when you see their behavior stretched out over time.

• 54:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  So one day per week for the first three dates. So like, let's say three weeks, around a month now, four dates in a month or close to that. At least I've seen a sample size of like, how does he go about texting me during a week? How does he plan? Dates, did he plan ahead of time or because if you go Thursday and then Friday or Thursday and Saturday, he's scheduling last minute. You don't know, is he like a planner? Can he actually plan it out?

• 54:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Does he show up for the things?

• 54:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Learning about this person in these early stages.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Right. So there's a lot that you could learn there. And I say like the topics of conversation that you got to hit on within the first three dates are like, family, got to learn about how he grew up, you know, just his relationship with his family still. We can't choose our family. We can't choose that situation. So we're not going to like overly judge that, but it's a good basis to kind of know what we're dealing with. Right. Friends, what's his social circle like? Right? Like if you ask me like, oh, who are your best friends? Oh, my best friend, Azrael, he's been with his wife for 10 years.

• 54:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Dakota.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  Dakota.

• 55:01Speaker 00

  My friend Alex and Erica, shout out, they're big fans of you guys. Yeah, they're, they love when I went on your show the first time, Erica. They're married, they have a baby. My other friend Dan, he's engaged to one of my best girlfriends from college. Like, so from that, if I tell you that, what can you infer about me?

• 55:15Rayna Greenberg?

  And your community in life?

• 55:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm friends with all men who are in families, right? So it's like, okay. So he's probably looking for something serious too. Right?

• 55:24Rayna Greenberg?

  He wants to fit in.

• 55:25Speaker 00

  He wants, yeah. Well, it's just like, I'm not with bachelor party boys, right? So like getting to know like who are his friends and what are their relationship statuses? You can kind of, it's not a direct correlation, but you can kind of infer what his social life might be like.

• 55:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love this so much. Like I'm thinking of women who are listening to the men, like what your life that you described, even my husband, I met him like, every married friend, they're getting wetter and wetter. Just like all his friends are married. Like he's ready.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  My best friend, they're just about to have their second baby. You're like, oh, you know, you're just realizing that he's in that place.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  He's in that place in life. Cause like you are who you surround yourself with, right? So if like this guy is around, men who are married or in serious relationships, odds are he leans that way too.

• 56:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of course, there's exceptions everywhere with all of this stuff. Cause there's that first guy that gets married that he just like wants. To be like, I think my brother was really early to be like, I want a wife and kids.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  But while his friends were still single, but I feel like people make that known on dates too. Like they're like, my best friend, Chris, you know, he's running around. I'm, you know, I think they let you know.

• 56:28Speaker 00

  Right. You could let, yes.

• 56:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  If they are the outlier.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. So friends.

• 56:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 56:34Speaker 00

  Passion and purpose in life. What does he do for work? And not every guy's job is going to be their passion, but you just kind of want to get a gauge for how happy and fulfilled is he in his professional life? Cause if a man is not really happy there.

• 56:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Can he make you happy?

• 56:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's gonna be hard for him to.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  It's gonna be hard for him because eventually, once you, as months and months go on, and people really start to show you who they truly are. If he's not fulfilled with his life and his career and stuff, you're going to start getting that depression coming out.

• 57:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  At some point. We all have anxieties and stresses and whatnot, but like, it's kind of important just to feel out where he is. Passion and purpose in life, right? Also, it's like, you know, what does he do for work? Right? And I, a question I like to say that people should ask is like, if you could be doing anything in the world right now, like dream job, like what would you do? Right? So if you ask somebody who's in marketing, like, hey, like your dream position, right? And he goes like, oh, I want to be like a WWE wrestler. It's like, well, that there's no correlation between the two.

• 57:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's an accountant.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, right. Whereas like you've said, me like, oh, what do you want to do? It's like, oh, like maybe I want to be the host of a Netflix dating show. Oh.

• 57:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  All right, we're on the path.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  We're on the path. We're on the path. So you want to see a guy's on his path.

• 57:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Our friend went out on a stay with this guy and she's a therapist. So she was questioning, and she had just told him about her career pivot and how she went back to school to become a therapist. And she starts talking to him and she says, he feels like you're not as passionate about what you used to do and your pivot and stuff. She starts asking these questions. He excuses himself. He goes to the bathroom. He comes back. He is teary eyed. She has like cracked him open.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  There we go.

• 57:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  He says, I just have to leave. Like she never, never hears from him again. Like he realized on that date that he was like.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  But that's like, but that's like an example. That's like, a lot of people don't dive into the hard questions. These aren't hard questions.

• 58:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's therapist.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Well, like she, yeah, she got it out of him.

• 58:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel like she realized he's not.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  Ready for a relationship, he's Right. Right. He doesn't even know what he's doing in his life. Right. Very important.

• 58:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to know how you spend your day and how you spend your energy. And there's different people. There's people that work to live. There's people that live to work. I live to work, but like, I don't know that I would work out really well with another person that lived to work.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  For sure. You gotta know your compatibility wise, like who, the type of person that you fit well with.

• 58:36Rayna Greenberg?

  There's plenty of people that go to work. They catch a paycheck. They don't take that shit home at the end of the day. And I probably would work out.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  Well, because you are more of like an outgoing creative person. So you're kind of flying around and you want somebody who's a little bit more like Grounded. Grounded by the, by the books and does his thing.

• 58:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a good balance, you know? I want somebody that can just support me in my dreams.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Well, yeah. You and I have a crazy life. Like you, it is better. You don't need a guy with a crazy life. Yeah. It's like, then when do you even see each other?

• 59:02Rayna Greenberg?

  We would never see each other.

• 59:02Speaker 00

  Yes. Okay. So are we through the first quarter yet? No, no, we got, we got. I love this.

• 59:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Two more quarters.

• 59:07Speaker 00

  This is great. Yeah. Two more topics. Two more topics. Past relationship and how did it end? You gotta ask that question. Maybe you don't ask on a first date. The third date. I can understand, but by third date, that's not a hard question. Okay. Okay. If you ask me like, oh, when was the last relationship? How did it end? If I want you to know what I'm looking for, or just kind of like what happened as far as my relationship trajectory that's led me to this point. As a man, like I'm going to tell you, and you want a guy that's like taking some level of ownership to. Absolutely. You don't want a guy that's being like, oh, she was just a crazy bitch. No, you, you would have to clock that immediately. Yes. Let's say it. Let's say that's true. Yeah. He could say that, but then also say like, you know, but I have a lot of empathy, but this is what I learned from it. This is what kind of came up for me. Yeah, there's context. I was, went to therapy after I, whatever I kind of got from it.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  So you want a guy that can contextually describe it without bashing the person that he was with. Yeah. How he speaks about her. How he speaks about her is like huge.

• 59:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I think about it all the time. The minute somebody says to you, she was crazy, zip, that's the end of it. No accountability.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  There needs to be accountability.

• 1:00:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Something's going on here.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  We play a part in everything. Like, yeah, maybe one person is a lot more of a part, but like you still don't want to talk badly about somebody in that way. I also want to know, have you been in a committed relationship at all? At all. At all. Relationship history. I know. Well, I see a lot of women will say to me like, cause I'll say that like, if a guy's been single for five years, six years, I'm like, mm. That's very, very intentional. But then a lot of women will go like, well, I've been single for five years. But I'm like, but with women, it's different because you're, you're the gatekeeper, right? So you're trying to find the normal guy. Guys are the ones that, let's say he's a desirable guy. It's not hard for a desirable guy to find a relationship. So if he's not in one, he's purposely not in one. A hundred percent. Like, we always say, men of a certain age in New York City that have been single this whole time are feral.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  Yes, they're just feral and they're, I say defective is the word. Yeah, defective. I used to say infected. Infected. Like, they've been infected.

• 1:00:58Rayna Greenberg?

  That's the real pandemic?

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  The real pandemic.

• 1:01:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I was talking to this guy and I could just kind of sense like he really had not like pulled into a parking spot with somebody. And I was like, you're in a relationship? And he was like, what? And I was like, have you been in a relationship?

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, ever.

• 1:01:11Rayna Greenberg?

  And he was like, yeah, I have for a couple of years. And I kind of dug into it and he said that they weren't faithful to each other. And so he's never been in a real committed relationship.

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:01:19Rayna Greenberg?

  And open relationships are different. And people that are not ethically non-monogamous, this was not that.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  But if you want that, then great.

• 1:01:25Rayna Greenberg?

  That's great. That's what I'm saying. That, it was not that. And I was like, so I was right.

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  He was literally like, how dare you? Yeah, yeah, you're right.

• 1:01:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I was right.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  Okay, last topic in the third, first quarter. I'm staying on this. First phase. I know, I'm into this.

• 1:01:36Rayna Greenberg?

  We're doing all 12 quarters.

• 1:01:38Speaker 00

  This is great. Well, you gotta, you gotta pay for the course.

• 1:01:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, right, okay. You're gonna leave us hanging?

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  No, no, no, we'll talk about it. Okay, okay. Just broadly. Yes, broadly, this is important.

• 1:01:45Rayna Greenberg?

  No, you're gonna edge us right to that.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  I'm gonna edge you. No, it's right at the peak.

• 1:01:50Rayna Greenberg?

  He's like, pay for the course.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Coming out soon. He's like, 1-800. No, the last one, well, I talk, I say this on my channels all the time. Okay. The last one's just a three to five year plan. Like, what do you, what you're going to next three to five years? Totally. But like, you want him to say in that conversation, married with a kid, right? Or married, or whatever. Yes. So like, if he just talks about his business, oh, I want my business to be here, this and that, this and that, being never mentions being married or children or whatever, then it's like, well, that's not at the top of his list, obviously. Uh huh. And this is also, as women who don't want children, then you get that answer too. Right, right, right. I talk about that on the first date, but I just. Marriage and kids, talk about it early on. There's no reason to not talk about it. Yeah. It's actually dumb to not talk about it. A hundred percent.

• 1:02:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that's a first date question. Where do you see yourself in three years? I mean, and that's an easy opening to like, do I want to be married or kids? I, there's nobody I don't bring this up with on a first date. Cause I don't really want kids. I don't know if I can have kids anymore at this point, but I don't really want them. And so if that is your non-negotiable, then we can't negotiate on this.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I'm not a fit for you.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Okay, so then when we get into the second quarter. Phase two.

• 1:02:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Phase two, pay me.

• 1:02:57Speaker 00

  Phase two, pay me. No, no, uh, uh, no, like I said.

• 1:03:00Rayna Greenberg?

  You can find the rest of the episode on Patreon.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Well, uh, dates four, five, six. I guess the big thing in that phase is that's usually where intimacy happens, right? That's usually when somebody, you're sleeping together and there's like the pullback or how does a man kind of like navigate through that, right? I always say like dating should be an upward positive trajectory.

• 1:03:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 1:03:18Speaker 00

  Right? So there should never be a pullback. It should always feel like we're getting closer, we're getting closer, we're getting closer. Dates four, five.

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  Dates four, five, six, though, like now you might start seeing each other like a little bit more frequently. Like maybe it's like every five days or you might do like a Thursday, Saturday here and there. But it's navigating the, the intimacy piece in this phase. Because like at this point, I would say men vet backwards, right? So they go sexually interested, really emotionally, like the emotion of the lust, right? And the excitement is what's driving a man really early. And then in the last two phases, they start vetting based on like, oh, wow. We've been on six dates, seven dates, we've slept together a few times. If I keep doing this, that's a relationship. Do I want that? Uh, where'd she grow up? Where'd she want to live? What does she do? What's her social life like? But that's when he'll start thinking about those things. Yeah, sure.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  So early on.

• 1:04:13Rayna Greenberg?

  You're not a person, you're just a hole. And then you become a person.

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  You said it, yeah. And then you become a person. But like, that's how, so they vet backwards like that. Every man does it, like, they might not even realize they're doing it, but they, we do it, so. That's so interesting. And it's after, after sex is when it kind of, so that's why I'm like draw that out. Obviously sex is beneficial for both people, right? So it's not, a lot of people will be like, I'm waiting till six months to have sex. I'm like, that's just not realistic for most people. Some people, sure, if you want to do it, sure.

• 1:04:40Rayna Greenberg?

  I think there's no rush. I mean, we've, we've sort of gone back and forth about like when to have sex. If you feel like having sex on a first date, have sex on a first date. For me personally, at this point in my life, if I kind of like somebody as a person, I don't need to sleep with them immediately. Cause I will develop feelings. Like I, do you want to feel it out? I'm not.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  You want to feel it.

• 1:04:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Casual sex, as I've learned, is not for me.

• 1:04:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  And this is all like, I just want to get ahead of the comments. Me and my man did this and

• 1:05:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  like I'm thinking of Alyssa, our friend who's getting married, first date, they spent the weekend together and they're getting married.

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  But that is an outlier. It's not the the rule.

• 1:05:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. So if you're in this type of cadence, this is how it should work and how you should navigate it.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Right. But that's why I say one date per week for the first month, right? So if we're talking about, oh, I slept with him on the fifth date, we're talking somewhere around a month and a half of knowing somebody, which is like a decent enough sample size, right? I think that's totally appropriate for adults, right?

• 1:05:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And if it's sped up a little, that's fine, too. Like, I see a world in which you go on one to two dates with somebody and you really do vibe and then you're like, come meet up with my friends. We always would talk about that with Jared, like you're watching football, come meet up, meet the gang, you know? Like, you both are in that place in life, you supercharge it, but it doesn't take away what you're supposed to learn about them.

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Things can, and that's why this is just like a guide, like things can move faster, but it's kind of just important to notice your pattern. Remember the patterns I talked about, like, is my pattern, I rush with people and then it's a fucking dumpster fire in a month? If that's my pattern, maybe we do something a little bit different. So you kind of got to know yourself or your pattern of person. Hey, this person is that like really charismatic, kind of outgoing guy, charming guy that every time I meet a guy like this, it ends up bad, maybe I should go a little bit slower here and feel it out, right? Or try to find a different type of guy, right? So the framework of what I'm talking about, like, kind of like the system, but making it work for you and the patterns that you've kind of noticed in your dating life.

• 1:06:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. So then, like I said, so by six dates, you probably slept together, it should go upper positive trajectory. Like I said, there should be no pullback after sex.

• 1:06:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, it shouldn't be this up and down.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Totally up. After sleeping with somebody, that's when you should get even closer.

• 1:06:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yep.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  Like, that should be like, wow, we're getting really close. And dates seven, eight and nine, that's usually when you're gonna like, kind of call back to the topics that maybe you talked about early on of like compatibility, like what you want for your future. Cause now, if it's building and he's looking at this as a potential serious relationship, He's either gonna avoid those conversations and keep it really fun casual. Like a lot of people will be like, oh, it just feels very fun. Like, we're not really getting deep. But vulnerability is a two-way street. Like, you gotta be vulnerable, be willing to be vulnerable to get it out of somebody else, too. So I would say you lead with some vulnerability and see if it's reciprocated.

• 1:07:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, I think seven, eight, nine, those dates, you're starting to see, okay, the things somebody said about who they they think they are.

• 1:07:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Do they wanna show up as? Is that who that person really is?

• 1:07:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Do they show up? Are they consistent? Are they intentional?

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  Right, right. And now, like, this is where, like, okay, we're at two months now or so. This guy should feel like your boyfriend. It should start to feel like, this is my boyfriend.

• 1:07:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  By seven, eight, nine dates, that's what it should feel like. You sit together, let's say, three or four times, like, eh, in a good world, like, that's where it's headed. And then, well, you should probably, I've changed my opinion on this. I think the earlier you can throw somebody to the wolves as far as, hey, my friend.

• 1:08:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I wanna talk about this.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, my friend and her boyfriend are on the corner. Do you wanna, like, grab a drink with them?

• 1:08:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  Like, throw them to somebody early.

• 1:08:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I agree.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  And get that gut check, because you wanna see somebody in different atmospheres.

• 1:08:12Rayna Greenberg?

  What is you used to? I was curious what you thought about introducing friends.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  I would wait, I would wait longer.

• 1:08:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:08:17Speaker 00

  Which I wish I didn't.

• 1:08:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it's nice to see how somebody interacts. You don't have to bring them to a party with all your friends. Ashley's fortieth birthday, her husband came with all of us. I was like, this is the most brave, the bravest man I've ever met in my life.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  But him wanting to do that is a green flag.

• 1:08:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Our story doesn't really, because of long distance.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  Long distance, it's a little different.

• 1:08:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was second in love with me for years before, you know, whatever. Not at the first night. There was a bunch of things that don't fit, but.

• 1:08:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I wouldn't hold anybody to that standard. That was the bravest thing I've ever seen. But I do think it's like, yeah, my friend's around the corner, like, do you wanna just meet up with them?

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  Yes, of course.

• 1:08:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I was on a date, and Ashley and Shashank showed up. And it was like a big bar with, like, I mean, it was really busy, whatever. Him and I were at this table, and like, he didn't seem that into it. And Ashley and Shashank went and stood at the bar and had dinner. And I was like, he's not even at any point gonna be like, your business partner and best friend are two feet from here.

• 1:09:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  We thought it would be funny, and it wasn't funny, but he's probably an ice agent.

• 1:09:11Rayna Greenberg?

  We, yeah, we think he might be. And I think he would not tell me what he did for work. He's very caiting about it.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  Gee, what did he do for his job? Bash the purpose alive.

• 1:09:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm telling you, I was out with this guy for two hours and I could not give you a two sentence boilerplate on what he does.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:09:25Rayna Greenberg?

  He works for the government and law enforcement in some sense.

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, he's in the FBI or an ICE agent or something.

• 1:09:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Those are the extremes.

• 1:09:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, well, it's literally one or the other, because he can actually tell you he's an ICE agent.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  But, that's funny.

• 1:09:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, fourth quarter.

• 1:09:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, like, that's where, if you're confused at all, it's done.

• 1:09:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:09:45Speaker 00

  Like, by two to three months, if you're confused, you're done.

• 1:09:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:09:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I've read a stat, and we've always kind of said this too, but studies show people break up after three months. Because there's for multiple reasons. A, for this, you're like, they're not, there's no commitment. And B, people are showing you who they really are.

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, you start to learn who someone really is.

• 1:10:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've read a stat that people can truly trick you for two months plus two to three months.

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  That's about it.

• 1:10:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then you really see who they are.

• 1:10:09Speaker 00

  Right, and to the point of, let's say, both people are, like, committed and become into a relationship. You're gonna still learn things about them past, okay, now we're official.

• 1:10:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  Well, now, like, I'm gonna start learning about your insecurities and your demons, right? You're gonna start learning about mine, right? And anyone could present really well, like, we all got shit.

• 1:10:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:31Speaker 00

  Like, we all got traumas, we all got things we're insecure about, we all got thi- So, like, how are you at handling when somebody's actually being vulnerable with you and that? Because there's vulnerability of like, oh, let me tell you about my ex, right? Or let me tell you about my mom and my dad.

• 1:10:45Rayna Greenberg?

  A past situation.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Past situations, but then there's like, these are my demons, so to speak. Like, this is, these are my insecurities, like, I got them? Like, we all have them.

• 1:10:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  So, it's like, are you the type of person, when somebody opens up to you, you dive in harder to that? Or it makes you like, oh, this is too much? Because being in a relationship is like, being willing to

• 1:11:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  accept those things and go deeper into it. That's why I want you to try to be more vulnerable earlier on, to kind of just get a gut check as to like, someone's receptiveness to hearing more serious stuff.

• 1:11:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, if you're gonna be with somebody long-term, they're gonna see those things.

• 1:11:17Speaker 00

  They're gonna see it.

• 1:11:18Rayna Greenberg?

  You wanna say to yourself, like, when the worst thing in the world happens to me, and it will, when I lose my parents, and I lose a pet, who do I want standing next to me?

• 1:11:25Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:11:25Rayna Greenberg?

  And I don't think it's the person that made you unsure, that made you confused about their intentionality.

• 1:11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, right, right.

• 1:11:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like, trauma dumping is one thing.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  Trauma dumping is one thing.

• 1:11:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, we're out with a man who has cried in the bathroom about his job, or he needs a therapist. But I think, we, to talk about this, we-

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  Talked about Logan Urie vulnerability connects you to people. It does. So if it's pushing someone away when you get vulnerable or they are getting vulnerable and you get the ick. This is not a match. It's not the right match then.

• 1:11:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I like you say a 12 after like the 12 weeks you should sort of know because we get a lot of messages from people say like. We've just been in this like nebulous thing for four months and we want, we can't put a title on it. Well, he won't put a title on it. Like, what do I do here? I mean, it always goes back to like, if, if they like you, you'll know.

• 1:12:06Speaker 00

  And if you want to do what.

• 1:12:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I believe, but I believe that.

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, it's true.

• 1:12:11Rayna Greenberg?

  If we, if anybody, not just he, if, and if somebody wanted to be in a relationship with you, they would be in a relationship with you. So at 12 weeks, if you're like, I don't know, that's your answer.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Can I tell you a story about my brother and his wife, who is just the most wonderful, perfect couple? I didn't know this till this past weekend I was with them. So my brother used to bartend on the summer. And when I tell you like 15 hour days, like he just doubles and he just didn't have time. And so he meets this girl Memorial Day weekend, opening of the summer, his future wife. And he liked her, he just met her at the bar. She was a patron and they start hanging out and he told her, he was like, I gotta tell you, I just like, just kind of like a warning of I'm really busy in the summer and I might not have a lot of time. She said, she was like, he was on me all the time. Like, it was so funny for, he was actually genuinely being like, I like her and I want to prepare her for what a summer looks like for me.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  And he liked her so much that she was like, he was there all the time. He was like on me all the time. I never, he wasn't never texting me, making plans. Yeah, right. Like, I think he just didn't sleep. But it was the funniest case of he truly was like, I will not be able to give this woman the time and attention. And he did. He was like, I can't. And then he also at the same time was like, watch me. Like Stephanie was like, yeah, that's good. I get it, you know? And then she was like, I can't get rid of this guy. Well, it's like a challenge. Like guys like little challenges, right? So like, it was almost a challenge to say he posed to himself where it's like to the point of, oh, this woman's beautiful. She seems really cool. Like, I'm gonna make it work. I have to make it work. I don't, I'm not gonna, I don't want to lose her. Yeah, it was the most like, if you wanted to, he, he would. Right.

• 1:13:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know. Do people think that's bad advice? He wanted to, like, people kind of debate that advice.

• 1:13:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's my favorite advice.

• 1:13:47Speaker 00

  I think it's true. Like, let's just say, like, 90% of the time.

• 1:13:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  Maybe there's like a 10% where it's like truly a guy can't make something work, or

• 1:13:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  there's a family situation and this and that, but like,

• 1:13:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  but like, most of the time, like, there's a lot of truth to it.

• 1:14:00Rayna Greenberg?

  If somebody wanted to lock it down,

• 1:14:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:14:03Rayna Greenberg?

  they would.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  They would lock it down.

• 1:14:04Rayna Greenberg?

  There's obviously like context and nuance to all of this.

• 1:14:06Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:14:07Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, if somebody has been with you for three to four months and you're not sure if you're together, that's intentional.

• 1:14:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  In that case, 100%.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I give passes for trauma, deaths in the family, crazy work stuff.

• 1:14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 1:14:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  There's been times in our life where I'm like, I couldn't even imagine, like, even if I'm, the right person came along, I might let them slip away, but you've been in it for weeks.

• 1:14:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, if you wanted to lock this down, you would have locked it down.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  That's the most simple, like, phase four, dates nine, 10, 11, 12, and beyond, like, by three, four months the longest, like, sometimes it can be four months, like, I get it, but exclusive should come at least a month and a half before, if you're gonna be exclusive, like, some people do the exclusive and then more boyfriend-girlfriend. Like, exclusive kind of comes in phase two, three, like, dates, like, six, seven, like, around there, they sub together, six, seven, eight, like, that's usually when exclusive happens, a month and a half to two months, and then boyfriend-girlfriend between three and four months. That's usually how I look at it.

• 1:14:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I always think they just go together.

• 1:14:59Speaker 00

  They could. Some people view it as it is the same thing, other people don't.

• 1:15:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, this is interesting. If we're exclusive, you're my boyfriend. Are you not?

• 1:15:06Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, I don't disagree with it.

• 1:15:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Between like, okay, we're exclusive, we're not gonna see other people, but I'm not gonna post you on Instagram and treat you to my whole family.

• 1:15:13Speaker 00

  Yes, you're not meeting my mom and dad yet, we're not doing that stuff, but dating apps are done and we're just focusing on the connection between the two of us.

• 1:15:20Rayna Greenberg?

  So one's a declaration to you, one's a declaration to the world, Ashley's like, fuck this shit.

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, kind of, like, I would say that's kind of like,

• 1:15:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you think that's kind of bullshit?

• 1:15:27Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think it's bull, I don't disagree with people thinking that it's bullshit. But it is a very modern dating term.

• 1:15:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're exclusive, but you're not my girlfriend? Why?

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Well, okay, I would say this. I would say this, so we're like a month and a half, right? We slept together.

• 1:15:42Rayna Greenberg?

  You know I'm asking to.

• 1:15:43Speaker 00

  No, no, I got it. Let's say we slept together one or two times, right? We're a month and a half in, right? By that point, only a month and a half, like, I really don't know you that well.

• 1:15:53Rayna Greenberg?

  For sure.

• 1:15:53Speaker 00

  Right? And you don't know me.

• 1:15:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  So it's kind of like a declaration, this is how I view it, as we obviously are romantically involved now.

• 1:16:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  Like, we're seeing each other, we're talking every single day. No one else is coming into this picture. Let's continue to observe our dynamic over the next month or two.

• 1:16:09Rayna Greenberg?

  If somebody asks me, I am seeing someone.

• 1:16:11Speaker 00

  I am seeing somebody. You have to say, you're not single anymore.

• 1:16:13Rayna Greenberg?

  But here's the weird part.

• 1:16:15Speaker 00

  It is weird.

• 1:16:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Exclusive and boyfriend, girlfriend, because then I'm like, when are we doing this?

• 1:16:20Speaker 00

  Well, a guy should.

• 1:16:21Rayna Greenberg?

  When are we circling back?

• 1:16:22Speaker 00

  I don't, no, see, that's the problem.

• 1:16:24Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know who to side with you guys, because I see them, I see both sides. If it's happening to me, I don't like it. I want to be your girlfriend.

• 1:16:30Speaker 00

  Yes, well, well, a guy, no, I got it. Ready? A guy should then say to himself, like, okay, like I'm talking about, by three months, or she kind of like planned for, okay, things are continuing to go well. I'll set up like a fun date night, and then like, I'll do the romantic gesture of asking you to be my girlfriend. That's, but besides asking somebody to marry you.

• 1:16:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  That's like the first cute moment, minus like a Valentine's Day that you guys might have. So like, you want a guy that wants to make it like a romantic thing. Exclusive to me feels more like, we're not seeing anybody else, dating apps are done. So we're just focused, we're off the apps.

• 1:17:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:08Speaker 00

  That's not the way it could be said, we're off the app.

• 1:17:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Somebody asks me out, I'm not saying yes.

• 1:17:11Speaker 00

  Yes, if somebody asks me, I'm not going out, and if somebody asks me, yeah, I'm seeing somebody. Like, that's how, it's nuanced and I hate it, but like, that's modern dating. That's modern dating, that's what it is.

• 1:17:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Things have changed. I see, I see women saying like, if I'm not your girlfriend, then I'm single, like, and I think that, I think it's fair to live by that.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  But then he can go out on dates too.

• 1:17:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Definitely.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  But would you rather that, or by a month and a half, you sleep together, you lock that down, and you just see it through in a vacuum now?

• 1:17:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so you know what I think the key is? Don't let this like, we're exclusive thing go on forever.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  It can't, no, no, no.

• 1:17:44Rayna Greenberg?

  After a few weeks, I need to.

• 1:17:45Speaker 00

  The longest it should be is like a month.

• 1:17:47Rayna Greenberg?

  A few weeks that we need to revisit this, you know?

• 1:17:49Speaker 00

  It can't be, we're exclusive at two months, and then now you're still dating and you're five, six months in, and you haven't had a boyfriend, girlfriend talk. No, it needs to be exclusive about a month, month and a half later, really.

• 1:18:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I just think it's funny, because like.

• 1:18:02Speaker 00

  I'm very systematic.

• 1:18:03Rayna Greenberg?

  It's really funny. I'm picturing a scenario with a guy, it's like, so.

• 1:18:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to be exclusive and you're like, oh my God, you're my boyfriend.

• 1:18:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:18:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he's like, no, no, no.

• 1:18:12Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what made you think that?

• 1:18:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  We will touch base in a month because I bought this course and

• 1:18:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Daddy Academy.

• 1:18:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't afford the second part of it, so I don't actually know.

• 1:18:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Daddy Academy would say that in a month, we will revisit.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I think.

• 1:18:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I'll take you on a walk.

• 1:18:28Speaker 00

  That's very funny.

• 1:18:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I can see him be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what made you think?

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  Well, like, listen, if you want to accept at a month and a half, five, six dates in, Daddy says, hey, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend. You want to do it? Fine. I just think the way today's society and peoples, we dive into things really emotionally and intensely very quickly. Doing the exclusive route, if a guy does it, I don't think that's a bad thing because it can give you a little bit more time to regulate your nervous system to this new person being so invested into your life.

• 1:18:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  I do see it and I do think when you talk about these labels, which you can use or not, you do you, but when we talk about boyfriend, girlfriend, that does imply families and you know, now do we do holidays?

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  Especially if we're like, yeah, we're in our 30s. If a lot of people watching are in their late 20s, 30s, 40, like, yeah, there's an implication.

• 1:19:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Taking you to my best friend's wedding, stuff like that. Okay, we're two months in. I'm sleeping with you on a regular basis. I do want to know you're not sleeping with other people, but do I, do I know if I want to take you to my best friend's wedding? There is like a little gray area.

• 1:19:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  It makes sense.

• 1:19:25Rayna Greenberg?

  And then you got to declare it to everybody and then you got to back out of it.

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:19:30Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a lot of paperwork, you know, it's a lot of admin.

• 1:19:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Niko, this has been wonderful. You're just the best and I just want to compliment you. I mean, you just know your shit.

• 1:19:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Take your dick out. No, no, I just, you know your shit and you are just, you speak about it really well.

• 1:19:49Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:19:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just, it's great to watch you thrive and we just love that there's someone out there like you for these men and women.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  I appreciate you guys. No, I love, I love talking. This is fun. We got to finally do it in person.

• 1:20:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. They're like, oh, the camera was.

• 1:20:02Rayna Greenberg?

  That's a run.

• 1:20:03Speaker 00

  That'll be my life. That's my life.

• 1:20:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, tell people where they can find everything that you do.

• 1:20:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So my Instagram is at Niko Eman, N I K O E M A N. That's my personal Instagram. YouTube, The Daddy Academy.

• 1:20:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it.

• 1:20:16Speaker 00

  That's my podcast. It's gonna be on Spotify too, very soon as well. TikTok, The Daddy Academy. And like I said, this course that I'm coming out with, you'll find that on my Instagram, TikTok. You'll find it everywhere. They'll be coming out sometime in the next month or so.

• 1:20:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, Niko Emanuilidis, everybody.

• 1:20:30Speaker 00

  There it is.

• 1:20:32Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, and GirlsGottaEat.com for us, tickets to our show in LA with the Chippendales on May 7th. You can get those at GirlsGottaEat.com. GirlsGottaEat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Rayna Greenberg, and RainaGreenberg.com for her tour tickets. We have full video on YouTube and Spotify. So subscribe, leave a comment, leave a review, share this episode with a friend, join The Daddy Academy, and we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, guys.

• 1:20:57Speaker 00

  See you, guys.

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  I hate Mondays.

• 1:21:24Speaker 04

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one.

• 1:21:29Speaker 04

  Mmm.

• 1:21:32Speaker 03

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• 1:21:40Speaker 04

  Try one.

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Mmm.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

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