Your Childhood Trauma Is Causing Your Autoimmune Disease | Erica Komisar | Dr. Josh Axe

I have spent decades helping patients heal through diet, exercise, and natural remedies, but there is one injury that supplements can't fix: emotional trauma. Whether it’s "Big T" trauma or the "Little t" trauma of chronic neglect, these emotional scars manifest as autoimmune disease, cancer, and hormone imbalances later in life. In this episode, psychoanalyst Erica Komisar joins me to explain why the first three years of life are the "critical period" for physical health and how we can heal the mind-body connection. We explore the mechanics of the HPA Axis, focusing on the Amygdala (the stress "on" switch) and the Hippocampus (the "off" switch). Erica explains how early childhood stress can "burn out" the brain's ability to regulate cortisol, leading to a permanent state of survival mode. We also discuss the definition of Depression (preoccupation with past loss) versus Anxiety (preoccupation with future loss) and how both act as pathogens on the human immune system. Watch The Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday & Thursday on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@drjoshaxe?sub_confirmation=1⁠ 🎧 Early Access! Our podcast listeners get every episode early, and you can tune in and be a part of our exclusive listeners below → ⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠Apple Podcast⁠ Order my NEW BOOK, The Biblio Diet → ⁠https://bit.ly/4oPEP3t⁠ Watch my free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms → ⁠DrAxeDiabetesClass.com⁠ Discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally → ⁠DrAxeThyroidClass.com⁠ If you’re ready to start feeling like yourself again and balance your hormones, take my free class → ⁠DrAxeHormoneClass.com⁠ Uncover what’s really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism— plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! → ⁠MyBloodWork.com⁠ CONNECT WITH DR. JOSH AXE ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠Facebook⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠ ⁠X⁠ ⁠LinkedIn⁠ ⁠Website⁠ ⁠Sign up for my newsletter⁠ ⁠Ask me a question CONNECT WITH GUEST Instagram Facebook X Being There The Parent's Guide to Divorce DISCLAIMER This content is strictly the opinion of Dr. Josh Axe and is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. All viewers of this content are advised to consult their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions. Neither Dr. Axe nor the publisher of this content takes responsibility for possible health consequences of any person or persons reading or following the information in this educational content. All viewers of this content, especially those taking prescription or over-the-counter medications, should consult their physicians before beginning any nutrition, supplement or lifestyle program. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Identity formation starts from the moment that you're born. The environment is critical to developing that sense of security.

• 0:07Josh Axe?

  I'm responsible for two things. One, helping them grow in their character and then helping them grow in their unique gifts and skills God's given them.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  And what that means is being there enough, knowing them enough.

• 0:18Josh Axe?

  These are eternal souls, eternal beings, and God put them in your care. And what that means in terms of the responsibility is just huge.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Depression is preoccupation with unresolved past losses. And anxiety is preoccupation with future losses that have not occurred and may never occur.

• 0:38Josh Axe?

  By the way, you gave the best definition of depression and anxiety I've ever heard of.

• 0:57Josh Axe?

  So for decades now, I've focused on helping people heal with diet, natural remedies, things like exercise and advanced treatments. However, there is one type of injury or trauma that so many people are dealing with today that unfortunately, diet, supplementation, and exercise don't fix. It is emotional trauma, childhood trauma from the past, and emotional stress. These things build up on our bodies, on our cells, on our organs, causing us to be sick. I can tell you from taking care of tens of thousands of patients, when I'm dealing with patients with autoimmune disease, cancer, chronic pain, hormone imbalance, and other chronic conditions, there is always an emotional root.

• 1:43Josh Axe?

  And today I've brought on one of the world's leading experts in this. She's a psychoanalyst. She's an author of many books on the subject. It is Erica Komisar. Erica, welcome to the show.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:55Josh Axe?

  Well, I'm so excited that you flew in here from New York. I know that I watched you do an episode, a couple. One was on Alice Clark's podcast. Another was on Lila Rose.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:06Josh Axe?

  And I watched those, and by the way, because you had a couple clips that were just... People were, it was pretty controversial because it was about daycare, right? Yeah, yeah, that was the clip. And I thought, wow. And by the way, there was so much I agreed with. And I've got a two-year-old at home now. I've got a almost six-year-old. And, uh, and I, I mean, I can tell, let me just tell you something we just went through. We had the pipes burst on our home here a few months ago. And water damage, like literally half of our house was flooded. We had to move out. And I can tell you, there were certain things that I never thought that this would cause such stress on my family. But like my two-year-old has been so unsettled because we are not in a home.

• 2:48Josh Axe?

  We've been kind of jumping around from Airbnb, staying with family, that type of thing. And she constantly tells us like, I want to go home, mommy. Like, I want to go home. And so it's something, something simple as that. It's crazy how much that, at least to me, how much that affects kids. And there are so many people today that have had this trauma in their life. It could have been somebody said something to them when they were three years old. And it's left an emotional scar today. They've never dealt with it. And so it actually is causing them to have things like cancer and hormone imbalance and those sort of things today. I mean, how much of that, I know I just said a lot there, but I guess my question is this. That's something that you probably work with a lot of, you know, people on.

• 3:29Josh Axe?

  And have you noticed that connection between, or read up on this in terms of this connection between emotional trauma and physical illness?

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. The mind-body connection is a, is a very well researched connection now. It wasn't years ago. Years ago, it was, you know, not as well researched, but we know there's a mind-body connection. There's a connection between stress and adversity and resilience or lack of resilience and, and physical illness.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  So there are two types of trauma, as I see it. There's big T trauma, and then there's little t trauma. So big T trauma might be, oh, the death of a parent or a divorce. Little t trauma has to do with, it's more nuanced. It has to do with the chronicity of a trauma. It might not be a one-time event. I suppose you could say divorce is more a little T trauma. Meaning that a little T trauma affects you throughout your childhood, meaning it's about the the environment that you grow up in and the chronicity of that trauma. For instance, long time neglect or long time physical, emotional abuse. Those are little T trauma.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  And I think people don't regard those as important. They see, you know, if you've been raped or in a car accident, or those are big T traumas and that's what's important. When in fact, in terms of one's psyche and one's physical health, it's the chronicity of of the environment that you grow up in that can cause the greatest trauma.

• 5:01Josh Axe?

  Yeah, you know, I I used to, you know, this is something I still talk about patients today. We call it micro traumas, right? So sometimes it's a car accident, but sometimes it's that you've sat at a desk all day for 10, 20 years and that's, you know, wrecked your spine or caused, you know, some sort of other issues. So I mean, that that that makes so much sense. I mean, I, you know, I remember, I'll tell you a story of this. I had a woman who came in my clinic, this is probably 15 years ago, and she was dealing with major autoimmune symptoms, like chronic, like fibromyalgia-like symptoms. And it just started about three years prior. And I said, hey, did anything happen in your life that, you know, that when this occurred? And she's like, nothing physical, nothing. She said, the only thing that happened was, you know, my daughter, I kind of had a hard time.

• 5:46Josh Axe?

  She moved away to college and we didn't talk hardly at all. I felt like she just kind of like left. She was in a way my, not only my daughter, but the person that was closest to me in my life. And and that was one of the first times I really thought to myself, you know what, like, that's that's the root. It's not that you changed your diet in a bad way. It's not that you stopped exercising. It was, there is an emotional trauma even in something like that.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  So I guess first you'd want to define what trauma does to you, right? It can create depression and anxiety, even on a mild level, even that's undiagnosed, and that contributes to physical illness. And so to define what depression and anxiety actually are, because they're words that are thrown around. It's a diagnosis. These are diagnoses that are thrown around today and tied to illness, to physical illness. But people don't really know what the definition of them really are. Depression is preoccupation with past losses, unresolved past losses.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  And anxiety is preoccupation with future losses that have not occurred and may never occur.

• 6:50Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  And so if you've had past losses, then you're more likely that are particularly that are unresolved. You're more likely to be afraid of future losses. So I suppose you could say the thing that ties depression and anxiety together and ties them to illness is loss. And we all face losses, we all face adversity and losses. Whether it's disappointment or rejection, or death of loved ones, or loss of job, or. The issue is how we cope with it. Whether we're resilient and can cope with the adversity and the stress in our lives. And and sort of that's my specialty because I talk a lot about the origin of resilience

• 7:33Speaker 00

  and where it comes from and how we can cope with stress and adversity in a way that it doesn't make us sick.

• 7:39Josh Axe?

  First off, by the way, you gave the best definition of depression and anxiety I've ever heard of. And I've been in the medical field a long time, you know, I've read everything from the example in the dictionary. And this ties so well into. You know, when I think about, you know, ancient forms of medicine, when I think about the Bible, there's so much to unpack here. You know, so in Chinese medicine, the way they view. They've they believe that different emotions impact different organ systems. By the way, we know this to be true. You know, if somebody has a lot of fear, we know that your adrenal glands now start putting out more, you know, stress hormones, right? Even cortisol, we know that if you are dealing with worry, if you're worrying constantly, it can cause stomach cramping, upset stomach.

• 8:23Josh Axe?

  So we know this to be true. But in Chinese medicine, if they called depression, they called a, they actually called a lung cheat deficiency, which is means an immune cheat deficiency. So they believe if you've had something happen in the past. And it could be having the pain of regret or shame or guilt or any of those things. That's tied to your immune system. So if you're dealing with things from the past, it weakens your immune system over time. It becomes overtaxed in a way. And with anxiety, that tends to be tied to the heart or the liver, which would increase things like blood pressure over time. I think I remember seeing a stat that said something like over 80% of what people are anxious about never happens or even occurs. And so, and so I'm curious, what are your thoughts on?

• 9:06Josh Axe?

  If you have somebody that's dealing with a lot of depression or a lot of anxiety, what is the process you bring them through or you recommend people go through in order to overcome those, you know, those emotional states?

• 9:20Speaker 00

  I mean, first, I just want to address something that you said that I think is interesting, which is that our stress regulating system is supposed to be helpful. It's a helpful thing.

• 9:29Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  When our HPA axis gets turned on because and puts us into survival mode or what we call fight or flight. It's meant to be an acute response, meaning the part of our brain that regulates stress turns on the response. So we can either run from a predator or fight a predator.

• 9:49Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  As soon as the predator is gone, there's another part of the brain that the hippocampus turns it off. So the amygdala is the on switch and the hippocampus is the off switch. And when you, when you're exposed to stress and adversity too early, when cortisol is, when you're exposing children to cortisol at too young an age, it conditions the brain in a way. So the brain cannot cope with stress later on. So, you know, the idea that stress itself is, is not the problem when it's acute. It's the problem is that the stress response is not meant to be chronic.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  And so when someone is having, is in a chronic situation of stress, then they tend to develop physical illness.

• 10:40Josh Axe?

  Yeah, wow.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  But the acute response is actually meant to be a helpful. Helpful thing. And you know what I'm seeing in children today, which is why I wrote my first book, Being There. What I'm seeing is that it's like turning a light switch on in your kitchen. You know, you always say to your kids, don't leave the light on in the kitchen because the light bulbs will burn out. And we used to say that when they were in

• 11:02Josh Axe?

  Exactly, yes.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  You know, and so what happens is it's like turning a light switch on that has no off switch. So kids are under such stress at such a young age that the amygdala, which is this stress regulating part of the brain, which is not meant to be active. It's not meant to be online for the first year or two. It's and only incrementally meant to be turned on. We're turning it on so early and so powerfully that by the age of three, it actually shrivels up and ceases to be functional in the future. So think of the light switch in the kitchen being turned on without the ability to turn it off. And that's what most people are experiencing is the inability to regulate their stress, which then becomes physical illness.

• 11:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah, I want to mention two things here that I think are, wow, I just, yeah, I, you know, I, I think this is so important, you know, I, I wrote about this in a book recently that, you know, when people think about something like a parasite, like if you had a parasite in your body, or if somebody's dealing with mold, or some sort of major pathogen, like they worry about that and they get anxious realizing, okay, and they, I think there's an understanding that this is bad for my body. A cancer cell isn't good. You know, a parasite isn't good. These things can destroy my body. In the very same way, if people are living with a high level of anxiousness, depression, loneliness, fear.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:26Josh Axe?

  These act in a way as pathogens, damaging your organs, literally causing them to age more quickly. I mean, it is making you sick and ill. Another thing I thought about with this too, and this is, you know, a big part of my, I guess, faith background in this is that, you know, when

• 12:44Josh Axe?

  You know, like my, my two-year-old right now and my five-year-old. They, at this age, like when we bring them places, we, we tend to stay there. Like if I bring my five-year-old to gymnastics, we, we stay where they can see us. Like one of us is kind of always there, almost all the time, you know, for the most part. Or we have a nanny that goes with the certain things and she'll be there for part of the time. And you can just see with our kid, there's such a comfort with that. They'll kind of look over at us here and there, you know, and see that they're there, we're there. But when we're not, there, there, there's an anxiousness there. Even if I, I mean, I'll give you an example. We went on a snow ski trip. I went in to go to the bathroom and my daughter had, you know, she had a little bit of a hard time with it. And, um, and I think that there's a right age probably to start kind of like creating that healthy separation over time.

• 13:28Josh Axe?

  Saying, hey, it's okay. We're one foot away. Now we're 10 feet away. Now, um, but, um, but I, I also think about this for adults, if you're listening to this, and if you're 40 years old or 60 or even 70, one of the cures for anxiety and depression and some of those things is if you believe that God is near you in that very same way, there is something different. They're like, I'll just share that for me. If I have, if I go into my day knowing and believing that I have a God that's for me, not against me, that these, they're with me, there's less anxiousness. If I don't only have to fight by myself, if I have God there with me, also other people. It's like, you know, when you're trying to go through life and if you feel like you're doing it all on your own,

• 14:08Josh Axe?

  that feels like such a heavy burden to bear versus knowing, no, I've got family or friends or number one, God there that are supporting me as I go through life.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  Well, there's lots of studies to show that in terms of children's mental health. There was a big Harvard study that showed that when children were raised with some faith or attended faith-based services with their families, they did better in terms of their mental health. For much of the reasons that you just mentioned, that it, it makes, you can internalize a feeling of not being alone when you're alone, but also it's community. I mean, there's a big part of being part of a community when you're a child that makes you feel safer. I suppose you could say that it's about safety. So you know, my sort of my specialty is attachment security. So I talk about where that feeling of safety and security comes from.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  And the origins of it, because we're not born with it. We're not born resilient and we're not born feeling safe. And we're not born feeling secure and we're not born trusting relationships. So we learn those things. We're born with a constitution and a personality. That might be a little more aggressive and a little less aggressive, a little more demanding, a little less demanding. A little more introverted, a little more extroverted. That's it. The rest of it is your environment and what you're exposed to.

• 15:32Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  And so, again, if you aren't physically and emotionally present enough for your children in those first three years, you're not conditioning that child's psyche. You're not conditioning them to feel safe and secure and to trust relationships.

• 15:49Josh Axe?

  By the way, this is where things I remember on Alex's podcast, because I watched the whole show because it was really good. You're you are, I'm so in alignment with what you're teaching now. Because here's the battle, and I just want to kind of pre-frame this, everybody. About this is that I'm a big believer in Proverbs 31. And there's a great passage in there about a Proverbs 31 woman. And when you're reading about that, you're seeing she's a great mother. She is a great wife. She is very high in character.

• 16:19Josh Axe?

  And she's working. And there are these things, she's doing all these things, but also there's a, you know, as Solomon talks about in his next book, right? He says, in everything, there's a time and there's a season. And there's, so you have to kind of look at the Bible or great advice in a full context. And I have worked with so many amazing women that have been, I'm saying the one, you know, CEOs and vice presidents and have a lot on my team that have been able to, you know, build really successful careers. And there's this tension right now in the left and the right and kind of different, different viewpoints about, you know, about moms being at home or not being at home and things like that. But I think, I think there's just a level of consciousness that people should be aware of

• 17:02Josh Axe?

  what the trade offs are, the sacrifices, or what statistically, you know, science says, or the Bible says, hey, is sort of the, you know, ideal way to go about it.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  So there's a term in Hebrew, yisurah hava, which means the sacred obligation of love, meaning parenting is the most important work you'll ever do, if you're gonna be a parent. And you don't have to be a parent to live a generative and wonderful and happy life. You cannot be a parent and build businesses and build houses and build things together, you know? And you can do both. You can, you can work.

• 17:39Josh Axe?

  My mom worked, yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 00

  But you can't do everything all at the same time if you're gonna do everything well.

• 17:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  So what I have are women coming to my practice who have not seen life as a seasonal thing. You know, we say women have more seasons to life than men do. We have more biological seasons. We just do. That's just the fact.

• 17:58Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  Some of the things I say are common sense. I always say there's sort of the inconvenient truth. But the truth of the matter is, if you wanna raise healthy children, you have to be there physically and emotionally as much as possible. That doesn't mean that you can't have a fabulous career and then titrate it down in the years that you're raising your very young children. And then as they become less dependent on you and they become older, you know, titrate it back up, you know, become fabulous and successful again. But the concept that a woman's life is linear in terms of her career is a myth, if you're gonna have children. Because, because what will happen is something has to give. Something gets sacrificed. And if you're gonna be fabulous in your career in the years that you're raising young children,

• 18:44Speaker 00

  then your children are gonna be sacrificed, not your career. Because you can't be fabulous. So, look, I'm a good example. I mean, I had a very small, I don't wanna say insignificant because it's a terrible word to use, but very small, not very important practice. I took quite a bit of time off when my kids were born. And then I just saw an hour and a half of patients a day. And I did that for years and years and years. And as my kids got older, it became three hours a day. And then when my kids were in high school, it was four and five hours a day. And now that my kids are in college and graduate school, you know, I see eight hours of patients a day. And I, and I write books and I travel around the world and I speak and, you know, so, you know,

• 19:27Speaker 00

  and there's so many stories of women who were not... Terrorized and frightened by this idea of I don't have to live a linear career life. I can take breaks, I can slow down and pick up speed. And listen, the truth of the matter is that if you allow having a baby to be a transformative experience, which it can be, and it is for many women, if, if they're healthy enough, if they have had enough in their own childhood, if they haven't been traumatized in their own childhood, having a baby is a transformative experience.

• 20:02Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  But we're not leaving time for women. We're terrifying them that if they take time off, if they treat life as a seasonal thing, then they're never going to gain ground again. They're going to have losses in their careers. And the way that I would describe that is when you have a transformative experience, you may choose to do something completely and entirely different than you did before.

• 20:26Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  You may choose, you, you change. That's what transformative means. And when you change, you may choose a different path with your career entirely. But if you're so scared that you cannot veer off the path for even a moment, then you never know where life would have taken you.

• 20:42Josh Axe?

  Yeah. You know, there's of course this ancient saying, know thyself.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:46Josh Axe?

  Right? And I think there's so much wisdom there and just saying like, because what's happening is the world is telling you, this is who you should be. This is what success is. This, this means you're.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  That's what the modern world is telling you.

• 20:56Josh Axe?

  Exactly. Hey, it's this amount of money, it's this notoriety, it's this many followers versus, you know, the Bible really says it's who you become.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:05Josh Axe?

  Right? If you're becoming a more virtuous person, a better mom, a better dad, a better friend, more in the, the New Testament, more Christ-like, or just more in character, like that, that is successful. And also knowing yourself in terms of, again, a female, there's a cycle there, right? There, there, women are more cyclical, to your point, men are more linear. And so knowing that, that's important. That's important. And so, but, but I'm glad we got to talk about this because I just think that, you know, it's such a, it's such an important conversation. Again, it is so.

• 21:40Josh Axe?

  Again, just controversial, just even talking about that, but I do think it's important thing. And I talk about this from a health standpoint, too, because it's like, okay, this was my mom growing up. My mom tried to, you know, raise three young kids, work full-time, volunteer at the church, make dinner every night. I mean, literally, and I think it's why my mom was diagnosed with cancer and then chronic fatigue syndrome.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Because why would you ever expect someone to have three full-time jobs?

• 22:10Josh Axe?

  Right.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Or even two full-time jobs. So raising a child that's healthy is a full-time job.

• 22:19Josh Axe?

  When we talk about emotional health, especially in our families, one thing that often gets overlooked is the environment we create at home. And the kitchen plays a bigger role than most people realize. It's where routines are built, where families connect, and where consistency really matters. And having the right tools can make a huge difference. In my kitchen, we use Caraway cookware. And over 2.5 million homes like ours cook with Caraway, too. And I am so grateful that Caraway is third-party tested and designed with high standards when it comes to its materials. It's one of those upgrades that improves your daily routine. Right now, you can save 20% on Caraway by shopping their bundles. Plus, you can stack my code, Dr. Josh Axe, for an additional

• 23:04Josh Axe?

  10% off. Go to carawayhome.com/DrJoshAxe and use the code DRJOSHAXE at checkout to get your big discount today.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  So, I mean, I think that what we expect of women today is not realistic. And so, and women are accepting it. And the question is, why are they accepting it? You know, why are they accepting that they have to do two full-time jobs at the same time? So, you know, my book was never, being there was never about not working. It was about prioritizing children if you were going to have them in those first three years and throughout childhood. I'm going to say it doesn't just stop at three. As long as your children are home and they need you. And remember, adolescence doesn't end until 25. So as long as they need you emotionally to be there, what I would call, if we're going to use physical terms, their emotional digestive system. Parents are their emotional.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Digestive system. You digest and help them to regulate emotions and strong feelings and experiences and things that happen to them in life. And if you're not there enough to be that digestive system, it's like treating children as if they are self-cleaning ovens. And that's what we've done. And we treat women with great disrespect. This is what I'll say. We treat them with great disrespect because we expect women to do everything and be everything all at the same time. So if we said to women, you know, take time off. We're going to give you 12 to 18 months of paid leave because every woman should have the opportunity to bond with her baby and form an attachment security.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  And then we're going to let you go back to work part-time on your own terms with control and flexibility. Maybe you can work from home. Maybe we can help you to start your own business. Maybe you can do it when the children are asleep. And now you're working part-time. And then as your children need you less and less and they're, I always say, children go to work. Maria Montessori of Montessori Schools, the founder, said, women, children work and school is work for them. It's play, but it's also work. So when children are in school, six to seven hours a day, that's their work. And now mothers have six to seven hours a day to do work as well. So there is a natural rhythm to it. There's an organic rhythm. If you allow there to be an organic rhythm, but that's not what we're telling women.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  We're telling them, you should have linear careers like men. And the thing is, that is the denial that women are primarily responsible for the emotional well-being of children. Fathers are incredibly important, but women are still primarily responsible for the emotional well-being of children. And so what that means is we are not expecting men to do two full-time jobs. We are expecting women to do two full-time jobs. The messaging in our country is different than any messaging in any other country in the world. I always call us the most barbaric country. I love America, but we are barbaric in terms of how we treat women and children.

• 26:12Josh Axe?

  I've I study and read the Bible a lot and one of the things that you'll see come up is is sort of different cultures tend to have different idols that they tend to worship. And so the idol of America is economic progression.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Of course it is. It's money. It's just money. Our idol is money.

• 26:27Josh Axe?

  Yeah. And for in some cultures, it's it's sex and for some it's, you know, media. I mean, so it can be different and just as bad, but but that is the, you know, that's the God.

• 26:37Speaker 00

  I mean, do we want to live by a in a in a in a society that idolizes money and materialism and and economic achievement and success? That that is the country we live in. Instead of idolizing, and we don't want to idolize, but instead of valuing relationships above all, you know, Aristotle's deathbed question, who's going to be sitting beside you on your deathbed? Is it going to be your boss and your colleagues at work? No. If you're lucky, it'll be the people that you have taken care of and loved and attended to and spent time with and made to feel important. Those are the people that are going to be sitting by your bedside, but only if you give, right? So if you don't give enough when your children are young,

• 27:21Speaker 00

  you know, and I love the song Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapman, but it was a song from I think the 60s and I it rang in my head when I was a little girl. It was a song about a father who was too busy to spend time with his son when he was working. Father was working all the time, working, working, and the son just said, Daddy, but I need you. I need you. Father said, I'm too busy, son. I'm too busy, son. And when the son grew up and the father was old and the father said, Son, I would love to come and have lunch. The son said, Nope, Dad, I'm too busy for you. I'm too. So what you model for your children, I mean, I don't want to scare people, but what you model for your children now, how you how how attentive

• 28:03Speaker 00

  you are to your children, how interested you are in your children when they're little and throughout childhood, is pretty much how interested they're going to be in you when you grow old.

• 28:12Josh Axe?

  That's so good.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  So don't expect anything more than you give.

• 28:16Josh Axe?

  You know, one of the things we talked about earlier is I think it's important.

• 28:21Josh Axe?

  One of the topics I think that's so important in psychology is identity. Right? And one of the things that you'll see in movies today and see people talk about is like, I'm gonna go and find myself, right? And I'm gonna do this, and most times it's I'm gonna find myself as a independently, like I'm gonna go off here and here and here and here and here and find myself. And when I think about what identity really is, you know, Jordan Peterson, he's somebody I followed quite a bit. One of the things that he talks about is you don't find your identity in yourself. You tend to find your identity, you do in your uniqueness. So there's a part of it there. But you find your identity in your attachment to others in your community. And what role do you play there as part of a community? And I think it's so interesting

• 29:06Josh Axe?

  because I think a lot of times, and for me, I think that's where I get a lot of my value and self-worth is knowing, okay, this is how God created me. This is where I'm unique. This is where I can add value as part of this family and then as part of a larger community. And that gives me a great sense of self-worth and value. But I don't think a lot of people understand or even know how to find their identity. The other thing I want to say is, you know, I think identity is so important in terms of your faith, like my identity of knowing that I'm a child of God, knowing that I'm built for eternity, like what I do here is gonna have eternal ramifications and rewards and all kinds of things like that also impacts my identity. So have you done much work on, I guess, identity in terms of how does somebody go out and actually build a solid

• 29:51Josh Axe?

  identity?

• 29:52Speaker 00

  Well, identity formation starts from the moment that you're born in terms of it's basically the development of a self, right? So we all have to develop a sense of self. And it starts really from the moment we're born, and it has everything to do with the relationships that we have, meaning our mother and father, particularly our primary attachment figure, but both our mother and father, one of the main jobs of being a parent. Is to help your child to develop a sense of self. And what that means is being there enough, knowing them enough, to know what their strengths are and what their weaknesses and vulnerabilities are, and helping to foster their strengths and their interests,

• 30:37Speaker 00

  and helping them to accept their limitations. There's a lot of narcissism today, which, again, I don't think of narcissism as something that makes people bad people. Narcissism is, is basically a, a sign of a wounded person. So, and it, we call them narcissistic defenses. They are defenses to protect a very vulnerable person. Yeah. And so, we have a lot of very vulnerable parents who project onto their children who they want them to be, rather than knowing, organically knowing their children, and knowing who those children are, what their, what their strengths are, and what their vulnerabilities are. So that is one of parents' main role.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  And, and so if you're, again, I'm gonna repeat myself, I know, like a broken record, but if you are not present enough in your child's life, you don't know them. You really can't know them if you only spend an hour and a half a day with them. There was a Pew Research study that said that American parents spend on average ninety minutes a day with their children. That is not enough time to know your child. And, again, empathy is not something we're born with. It comes from the right part of the brain, the social emotional part of the brain, what we call the prefrontal cortex. And that's not fully developed till twenty-five. It's only conditioned by your interactions with your child, particularly in two critical periods of brain development,

• 32:04Speaker 00

  from zero to three and nine to twenty-five, or adolescence. And if you don't model that behavior, if you don't model empathy, it doesn't matter what you tell your children. It doesn't matter if you teach your children the rules of, of religion or the Bible, unless you model it for them. Uh, it's how you behave and how you treat your wife, how you treat, uh, your friends, how you Treat strangers, that's what models empathy for them. So it doesn't matter what we say, it's really what we model for our children. And we can tell our children, by the way, that you love them. I love you, you're the most important thing in the world to me.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  But you don't spend time with them, you don't pay attention to them when they're in the room. You're not really that interested in playing with them or interacting with them or even listening to them about their day, you find it boring. So how can you say you love someone if you can't even be with that person? There was, yeah, there was a guru named Ram Dass years ago. I'm old, so this was like the 60s or 70s. And he came back and wrote a book called Journey to Awakening. And he said, there are three pillars of life. There's the doing, the having, and the being. That most people just do, do, do, to have, have, have, and forget about the being. And the being is the most important pillar of life.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  And so if you can't be with your children because it makes your skin crawl or it makes you feel bored, you know, I always say boredom is a sign of depression. And so when you say, I'm so bored, I'm bored, I'm bored being with my children, okay. If you're not in the child business like I am, I'm not bored with babies, I love babies. But I'm in a particular field. But I don't expect people instinctually to be interested in children. If that's not their thing, other people's children. But when it's your own child, it's anti-instinctual to say you're bored with your own children. You might have boring moments, but you're not pervasively bored being with your children.

• 34:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah, I think it's so good. You know, one of the things I've found in this, I think this is true generally with almost anything in life, that I was trying to tell my daughter this the other day. She was like, I don't like this food. And I'm like, you know what, honey? I didn't like tomatoes either, or olives, or peas, or a number of things. But the more you eat them, the more you'll like them. And I think there's an element too of the more you do something, the more you start to like it. And so I think that one of the things, if a parent does feel that way, I think the more, I think there's two things. I think the more you do it, the more you can kind of get into that. I also think it's understanding the importance. I mean, you mentioned that Jewish phrase earlier. There's a pastor who says something similar. And he says, the most important thing you'll ever be is, you know. Basically, it's apparent, right?

• 34:52Josh Axe?

  I mean, the single most important job to your point. I think if you truly understand the depths of that, that these are eternal souls, eternal beings, and God put them in your care. And what that means in terms of the responsibility is just huge. You know, the way that I try and think about being a dad right now is there's really two things I'm most concerned with with my daughters. And it is, I'm responsible for two things. One, helping them grow in their character. That's going to help them be the best they can be. And then helping them grow in their unique gifts and skills. God's given them that thing that makes them unique, right? So like my five-year-old now, I think she's going to be a pretty good swimmer. So we're doing everything we can to help her be a good swimmer, you know? And then, and then, of course, you know, the character qualities. But I think that, you know, if you kind of think about it like that, like, hey, my goal

• 35:37Josh Axe?

  is to take this person and help them to grow to the highest level possible. You know, maybe that's helpful for some people. Now, again, that could also be unhealthy, probably, for some parents, because if it's not what the kids actually are good at, and it's what they wanted them to be, or, you know, they had something and they never fulfilled their own dreams, then that's probably a problem.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  So I would say, parents, when it comes to health and safety, have to lead the way. So you're a health person. So I would say, when it comes to, you know, how you feed your children, or whether you vaccinate them or don't vaccinate them, or you lead the way with health and safety, you know? That you make sure that, you know, they don't run out in traffic, or, you know, you're the leader. But when it comes to their interests and how intensely they want to engage their interests, I always say to parents, they're the leaders and you're the follower. Don't try to be the leader in something that is uniquely theirs.

• 36:33Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Because what you'll do is you'll take something good and make it bad.

• 36:37Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  And so, swimming is a good example, or piano, or anything. Yes, you want to encourage your children, if they love to do that, to do it, and cheer them on and admire them. We want to admire our children. And not admire our children for their accomplishments, but admire our children for trying. So our admiration is really important in terms of them developing a healthy ego, right? Healthy sense of self. But you have to be careful. There's a fine line between encouraging and admiring them for them.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  And encouraging and admiring them for you.

• 37:15Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  And so you just have to make sure, you always have to check yourself as a parent. So we're always checking ourselves to make sure that we haven't crossed the line.

• 37:23Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  And that we're following our children and what they want. So, you know, and when your child comes to you and says, you know, oh, swimming is so hard and I'm so tired and, you know, I think I want to quit daddy. And if you say to them, well, you know, honey, um, do you still love it? Do you still like it when you do it? Yeah, but it's so hard. You know, we can talk to them about resilience and how it's important to stick with things. And, but in the end, if they still, after we've given them that talk and we've encouraged them, they want to stop. Again, we have to follow their lead.

• 38:00Josh Axe?

  Hey, so if you've ever thought something is wrong with me, but I just can't prove it, then this is for you. Now, you might be eating clean, even what you feel like is perfect, working out, taking all of the right supplements, but you're still exhausted, still foggy, gaining weight, and you're not sleeping. And every time you ask for help, you hear the same thing. But your labs are normal. Here's what that actually means. Standard blood work only shows what's in your blood, not whether your cells can actually access it or not. You can give your body all the right inputs, but if your cells are in danger mode, chronically stressed or inflamed, they can't absorb or use those nutrients properly.

• 38:42Josh Axe?

  If you're finally ready to heal, go to mybloodwork.com. You'll get an at-home cellular blood work panel shipped straight to your home and reviewed on a private call with one of my senior health advisors at the Health Institute. And this will help you finally connect the dots between your symptoms at the cellular level. We'll also determine if you're a good candidate for one of our cellular healing protocols so you can finally experience lasting healing. Once again, go to mybloodwork.com to check it out.

• 39:14Josh Axe?

  We should be attached to parents and to people.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 39:18Josh Axe?

  But you, people can create unhealthy attachments. This is something I heard you talk about, and I think people find this so fascinating. I had a patient recently I was working with, and she had a really hard breakup with, I guess, a hard breakup with a boyfriend.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 39:30Josh Axe?

  Right? And she, I mean, you know, four months later, six months later, still absolutely just a wreck about it because she felt like this was the person for her. And now he's kind of moved on and, you know, and, um, and dating someone else. And so, but it was very, and the thing is, you know, she was, you know, a Christian, somebody who's very spiritual, uh, looks to God for a lot of things. But if you had somebody like that coming to your, you know, and you're working like someone with that in practice, like what would you say about that attachment? So I don't know, one of the things you've even trained on, I think there's multiple attachment styles, right? That people can have.

• 40:07Speaker 00

  Well, there's a healthy, there's only one secure attachment style.

• 40:10Josh Axe?

  Okay, yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  So that's the good news is that you don't have to remember too many of them because there's really only one that's what we call a secure, healthy attachment style.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  And what does it mean? It means that, um, one, you look for reciprocity in connections, meaning you trust others, but you look for them to love and trust you in response. So we look for reciprocity. So in the case of this patient that you're describing, um, it sounds like maybe something got lost in translation with the reciprocity piece, right? To say you, you are madly deeply in love with someone who is, has rejected you or doesn't want to be with you. Remember, it's, it's, we want to teach our children that real love, uh, is when you love someone and they love you back.

• 40:55Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  You want someone and they want you back. But also, healthy attachment means that, um, you feel comfortable in the presence of someone you love and you feel comfortable depending upon people that you love. You're not scared of dependency.

• 41:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  But when they aren't there, you can hold it and feel, uh, full, full and not, not empty when they're gone because. You're able to to to lean into a secure sense of safety from early in your life. So meaning when the person is there, you can lean on them. And when the person isn't there, it's sort of like having a backup generator for your house. You can lean on yourself. That's healthy, secure attachment. Then there's different kinds of attachment disorders, which are basically defenses that children develop in response to these traumatic attachment situations.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  So they can either become avoidant, they can become anxious, or they can become disorganized. So an avoidant attachment is someone who says, right, my mommy isn't coming. My daddy's not coming and I need them, so I'm just not going to need anybody and not trust anybody. And that's most closely associated with depression and inability to form connections later on. Anxious or ambivalent attachment is when a child says, oh, my God, my mommy's here, but she's going to leave me again. I'm going to cling to her like life itself and I'm not going to let her go. And and that's most correlated with anxiety later on. And then disorganized attachment is the hardest to treat and is connected to things like personality disorders.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  It's basically when a child doesn't have a strategy. I suppose you could say the other two are like strategies. So a child who doesn't have either their their primary attachment figures are absent in those early years. Or even if they're physically present, they're emotionally absent in some way, depressed, distracted, resentful, whatever. So those children who have disorganized attachment can't find a strategy. So you could think they're trying to click into a strategy but can't find one. So first they'll avoid, then they'll cling for dear life, then they'll slap their mother because they're angry, and then they'll cycle through again. And they never quite find a strategy. So they end up in this disorganized kind of attachment.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  And that's correlated with things like borderline personality disorder, which we're seeing a lot of in young people. So, yeah, there's really only one secure attachment style.

• 43:29Josh Axe?

  Yeah, let me let me ask you about this. So you had mentioned, so there's an element of somebody having attachment, especially to parents, right? Over time, though, as we grow up, those attachments are going to obviously lessen to a degree in a way, right? Because there's they're less present or or let's say your parents pass. How do you still have a healthy? Do you attach to other things? Do you just solely start relying on yourself? Do you have to have God there for that support? Like, talk to me a little bit more about the healthy attachment style and how that would work.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  So, in the first three years, you build a scaffolding in a child. They aren't able to internalize that sense of security till about three years of age, which is why we call three years of age a critical period of brain development. So by three years of age, 85% of a child's right brain is developed. And in that, in those years, the environment is critical to developing that sense of security. It can only be taken in and internalized and held on to. Think about pouring a glass of milk for your child. You can't pour it all. Once you pour a little by little over that three-year period, by three years, the glass is full and now they've internalized a full glass of milk.

• 44:43Josh Axe?

  I see, okay.

• 44:44Speaker 00

  And so if you're not as present, then they only internalize half a glass of milk.

• 44:50Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  And what happens then is they don't have that internal experience of comfort and soothing and safety to turn back to. So you say God is that for a lot of people. And interestingly, you know, a lot of people use God and parents interchangeably. And what I mean by that is, for many people who didn't have healthy relationships with their parents, reaching out for a parental figure in God is a very positive thing. Because that's why religion exists. That's why Christianity is used in 12-step programs if we're talking about health.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  Because there is a hole, there's an empty glass where there should be a full one inside those people who have addictions. They're reaching for, to fill up their, that empty space inside of them with gambling and drugs and pornography and food and alcohol. And those are all things that are, that are an attempt to fill up a space that was never filled with love.

• 45:56Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  And so if you get enough love, and I don't mean pay lip service, but real attention, I always say to parents, if you want your children to feel good about themselves... Then if you want them to feel as if they are valuable and interesting people, then you have to be interested in them more than you're interested in anything else.

• 46:19Josh Axe?

  Can I share something that was such a powerful thing for my faith is I think at certain times growing up, I heard two things which Jesus teaches and the Bible talks about quite frequently is, love God, love your neighbor, right? But I had this sort of thing that happened to me where when I was able to love God in the greatest way and other people, when I was finally able to reflect and understand how much God loved me, and it really wasn't until then, because before it was kind of trying without seeing results, or it was kind of like this trying to get myself motivated to go out and do things, love people, but when I had this reflection of wow, like God loves me so much that he would sacrifice his own son, God loves me so much, he's constantly thinking

• 47:03Josh Axe?

  about me, like King David said, he knows me to the very, you know, numbered to the very hairs on my head, it's like if meditating on that, letting that sort of penetrate me and become who I was or understand that, that was such a thing, and then like now even looking back, thinking about like my parents, like I had a dad, I was so blessed, like my mom was like took care of us so much, like she, she, you know, drove the bus at school, she worked at my school, did gym teacher so we could go to a Christian school, I had a dad who never missed a single game, ever, and like even thinking about that, it gives me such a sense of like just love and fullness, and it makes me want to love them so much in return, you know, and so I think for a lot of people, but a lot of people didn't

• 47:45Josh Axe?

  have that experience like I had, and had parents that were that selfless and that interested in everything we did, and so how do people, what is some practical advice? How do people get to that place?

• 47:58Speaker 00

  So that kind of unconditional love that you're describing, that hopefully you get from your parents, but unfortunately not everybody does, people find in religion, they find in a connection to God, and they find in the kind of therapy that I do, so it's not all therapy, because I think there's different kinds of therapy, I think people don't know that much about the different kinds of therapy that are out there.

• 48:23Josh Axe?

  By the way, can I just say, there is so much bad therapy, like today, we've heard this thing about rumination, for a lot of times I've, you know, people I know have gone to counselors, I'm like, what did you do, and basically, I mean, I'm not saying this very medically or delicately, but they wallowed in their suffering and they never learned how to maybe leave it or how to move forward from it.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  I don't really love the word rumination. It's a psychiatric word. I think of it as a grief response.

• 48:52Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 00

  That, you know, you can get stuck, do you know Kubler Ross in Death and Dying? You can get stuck at any stage of grief.

• 48:59Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  And so people who are quote unquote ruminating, I suppose, are stuck between disbelief and sadness in terms of sometimes anger. But they get stuck, sort of like you used to scratch an LP and it would skip back and skip back, you know, the records. And we don't really have records much anymore.

• 49:17Josh Axe?

  I had CDs, but they would do the same thing.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, they would do the same thing. So actually, people are using records again. But, um, but the concept is if you are not moving along in a grief process and you get stuck, you keep going back and back and back because you can't move forward in that grief process. So I'm a psychoanalyst. So what we call psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy is the best therapy because for that kind of response. I mean, there's CBT, which I, I think CBT is helpful for certain things, but it's more symptom oriented. And from my perspective, if you're only addressing symptoms and you're not addressing the origins of symptoms, then you're just always putting out fires.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  As Stephen Covey said, you're always just putting out, right? Right. So the idea is you want to go to a therapist who really, first of all, who is an emotionally reparative experience for you. I mean, it's not a term we like to use in my field, um, but, but it's the truth. It's, the truth is that therapy is a relationship with a kind of parental figure, where there's a transference of some kind to a kind of parental figure that we call it like an as if parental figure, where you have a different experience of somebody actually listening to you and being interested in you and being able to mirror your feelings and reflect them. And, and be attentive to you.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Emotionally in a way and to be calm and not to be volatile emotionally, you know? And so that is an emotionally reparative experience, not a quick one. But it is so that kind of therapy helps. And then I also think religion helps.

• 51:00Josh Axe?

  I've never heard, like, first off, this just makes sense. Like, when I'm thinking about the Bible right now, there's a, there's a, the shortest verse in the Bible and it's, "Jesus wept."

• 51:10Josh Axe?

  And there's an element there of like, so if you're going to be a good therapist, there's an element of, you have, you used the word empathy earlier. You actually need to feel the pain, get in there in the deep end with the patient and actually help them work through. And it's not, you're standing over here, they're standing over here. You're in with them, helping them go through. You know, I think that, like, when my mom had cancer, that was very much, I learned so much because oftentimes when I have patients, they're like, and you get a serious diagnosis, it's like deer in the headlights. Like, there's so much information, there's a lot of fear what to do. And I really kind of went down there. We went in the deep end and we walked through every moment of the part of the day for months and all that together. And I realized, I'm like, wow, that, that is, that is how healing is supposed to happen.

• 51:55Josh Axe?

  It's like you are in community, locked arms with someone else getting you through. But most people today, they're lonely, they're in a corner, they're trying to, you know, do it themselves.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  So, yeah, it's interesting because, you know, we say that repression is a great defense if it lasted a lifetime. So repression is basically shoving down one's emotions and one's trauma for years and years without dealing with it, right? Shoving down conflict, shoving down pain. And unfortunately, it doesn't generally stay down. Sometimes, rarely, it comes out in various ways. It'll come out in mental illness, it'll come out in, in health issues. And so, yeah, it's, it's unfortunately, we have to deal with our pain, whether it's emotional pain or physical pain.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  We can't just push it down because it doesn't stay down. And, and it is really important, particularly when you're dealing with physical illness, you know? And it's really a hard thing to talk to, to a lot of. You know, allopathic doctors about because they're trained just to see the body as a physical thing, not as a whole unit, not as a whole thing with one psyche and one's emotions. Although they're starting to more and more, but you know, how many doctors, when you get a cancer treatment, talk to you about trauma and are you seeing a therapist and not, not too many of them.

• 53:25Josh Axe?

  Less than 1%, it would be very low.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and even, you know, psychiatrists also, I have to say, they wanna, they're symptom relievers and there is use for that. There's use for that at moments if someone is in a very severe state, suicidal state, or you know, bipolar state or schizophrenic, there's use for medication. But really what we're doing right now is we are silencing people's pain instead of helping them to get to the bottom of their pain and really resolving their conflicts and resolving their pain at its origin, right? Otherwise, you're just kind of cutting the grass and the grass grows back.

• 54:02Josh Axe?

  Yeah, you, you were referencing this is, is people, in order for people to heal and move on and

• 54:10Josh Axe?

  become their best.

• 54:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:12Josh Axe?

  You talked about having, working with a counselor like yourself that's getting in the deep end with them and helping them go through that process. And then you were also about to get into there, something connected to God and faith in that process as well.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, again, it's, um, what heals you when you're in pain, when you're in emotional pain, it, relationships.

• 54:34Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  That's what heals you. And so, not drugs, but people and relationships. And you also have a relationship with God. God is, you know, I remember my, my husband went to Hebrew school when he was a little boy and his mother said, what's the one thing you learned from Hebrew school? And he said, God is invisible.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  And I said, I hope you learn more than that. But the concept that there is this invisible being that is also a relationship. We have a relationship with God. We have a relationship with our parents. We have a relationship with our spouses and our children. We have a relationship with our therapist. And so, relationships are healing and you know, and it's not, I don't think that we really talk about that very much. And I also think that we don't help people to understand that if the relationships that cause the greatest pain that lingers with you throughout your life are the early relationships, then you have to dedicate. Many years to being in therapy. Because if you think about it, it may have taken many years for that,

• 55:37Speaker 00

  for that trauma to form. And it's going to take many years to unravel it. And so people go into therapy and they say, right, three sessions. Am I done? Is this it? And I'm like, wait a second. How long did it take you to get here into my chair? And they say, well, I'm 40. So I guess, well, I say, you're not going to be here 40 years. But give it a little time because it is the relationship with me that's healing. It's not some pithy thing that I'm going to say to you. I wish that I was a magician. I have a friend who's a mentalist and I'm not a mentalist. I'm, I'm, I'm a psychoanalyst who helps people with their pain. But it is in the connection. It's in the relationship with the therapist. And it's in the relationship with God. That's what's healing.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  It's the relationship, not some magic bullet that comes out of, not some interpretation or some pill, or it's the relationship. And so therefore, the consistency and the care and that relationship over many months and many years is what heals people.

• 56:37Josh Axe?

  So you just came out with a new book and you've written some great books and done some great interviews. Like I said, I've seen a couple of your interviews online. I was just so, so impressed. And I was so impressed because the way you think is very much root cause oriented. And this is the way I like to practice medicine. I like to do something called the five whys. And, you know, basically it's, and it's, it's, it's, it's Socratic, you know? And it's, and it's method. It's saying, okay, you've got diabetes. Why your blood sugar is high? Why? Insulin sensitivity? Why? Oh, you're eating too many carbohydrates or no cortisol is high? And that's what's driving it. And then so going to the very, very roots. So we know exactly what to fix in order to how to heal. And you do that with people in their emotional states and their past traumas and all those things.

• 57:21Josh Axe?

  And there are a lot of things that I think about that cause a lot of trauma for people when I'm looking at patients. You know, some of the top ones I just want to mention, one is just emotional trauma as a child, right? The parent wasn't there. They grew up without a parent. Or there were some sort of verbally abusive or physical. I mean, there's a number of things there. So that's one big thing. Another one is losing a loved one. Like, I'm walking through this right now, still. Last week was the two-year anniversary of my father-in-law passing. He was 60 years old, had a heart. So this is my, my wife's dad and my mother-in-law, and he was 60. And I was going to gym with him every day. I mean, really healthy, fit guy. And my best friend, in a way, in terms of a male figure, someone I respected poured into me.

• 58:01Josh Axe?

  And so, you know, that was, that's the hardest thing I've ever probably gone through is just, and they were like, living with us. Like, we were like, they were, you know, our closest family members. And then another thing that I see that really impacts people is divorce. And divorce is so common, even in, you know, Christian households. And while I don't, you know, in no way, like, one, I'm very much on the line of, you know, just thinking about the way-

• 58:32Speaker 00

  Supporting marriage.

• 58:32Josh Axe?

  Yeah, supporting marriage and thinking about what Jesus said is 77 times 7. Like, let's, you know, let's cherish and protect at all costs. But if someone has been through a divorce, or is going through a divorce, that's something that can be really traumatic on people. What is the right way to go through that type of trauma of losing someone, or even more specifically, a divorce, in order to, you know, protect themselves, but also their kids and their other family members as they're going through that? I wanted to ask you this question because you've written an entire book on it.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  Well, let's talk about why marriage is so important in raising children. Because that's the first step in that question is, is marriage really important in raising children? And the answer is, of course it is. Marriage, having a mother and a father is really important to raise healthy children, if they love one another, if they care for one another, if they're affectionate with one another, if they respect and admire and trust one another.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  It's the best environment to raise children in. I'll just say that. So everybody understands that I support marriage as the best way to raise children. Now, some people can't raise children in that situation because someone passes away or they're, you know, they have a divorce. And so there are situations where people are stuck in terrible circumstances where they're not in these loving and healthy and supportive relationships while they're raising children. And so I'm big into prevention. So that was the first part of your question.

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  The reason I write books is because as a therapist, I got tired of just dealing with the fires that came to me when I knew there were so many things that people could do to prevent the fires. So you talk about prevention, right? That's what living longer is about prevention, preventing illness. I talk about preventing mental illness. And so with children that come out of a divorce situation, and there are going to be divorces because there just are 50% of people in America divorce.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  And so that means Christian or not, there are going to be divorces where parents do not get along, where they are in constant conflict. And what the research shows is that raising children with a person who you hate and who hates you. First of all, the word hate doesn't mean what we think it means. The opposite of love is not hate, right? The opposite of love is, is really not caring. Indeed, hate is unrequited love. So when people don't make it in a marriage, it's usually because there's such great disappointment in what they thought would be an amazing connection for life.

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  And so hate ends up being unrequited love, right? Rather than indifference, which is really the opposite of love. When you raise children in a hateful environment, it's very bad for children. When you raise children in a conflict-filled environment that is unresolvable conflict and chronic conflict. We know now from the research that that is not the kind of marriage that is healthy to raise children in. So there are times when we say it might be better for children to be in two harmonious, peaceful, calm environments with two parents who can work together and care for each other without living together and co-parent. So I wrote this book.

• 1:02:15Josh Axe?

  Can I say one thing? One, I would challenge that a little bit from the standpoint is that if you have two people that are resentful and hateful, or one of the two, you know, that that means that they're going to have two separate homes that are both harmonious. I would challenge that that is almost never going to happen, or very rare. I'm not going to say that.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  That's why I wrote the book.

• 1:02:44Josh Axe?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  To give people a map. The book, it's not a perfect map, but it's a map on how you can... We know it's going to happen. We don't promote divorce, but we know it's going to happen.

• 1:02:57Josh Axe?

  So if it does happen, how do you deal with it the best way possible?

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  If it does happen, how do you mitigate the negative impact on children? How do you, how do you secure their mental health for the future? How do you make sure that they still have faith in relationships, that they can still trust in love? Because many children come out of divorce not trusting in loving relationships and not having faith in, in the permanency of connection with another person. Okay. So this book is a roadmap for those who are going through divorce or who are thinking about going through divorce. It may scare you away from divorce to read my book. You may go back and say, "I want to give marital counseling another try."

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  But if you are going to do it, then you have to do it in what I call a child-centered, child-healthy manner. Because if you don't, then your children are the ones who are suffering. And what I will say is that when we're in pain as adults... We share our pain with everyone around us. We can't help it. It's like when you stub your toe in the corner of your bed, you know, and you scream at your wife and you say, why'd you put that bed in the middle of the room? Right? When she didn't, right? And so we're not our best selves when we're in pain, often. And so this is a book to help you, it re-centers parents to try to be their best selves for their children.

• 1:04:21Josh Axe?

  Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. Well, Erica, thanks so much for coming on today. I want to encourage everybody to check out Erica's books. They're in bookstores nationwide. You can just go on, you can go to amazon.com and look up Erica Komisar. I'm going to show you her book here now, The Parents' Guide to Divorce. There's other books. What are your other two books?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Being There: Why Prioritizing Motherhood in the First Three Years Matters and Chicken Little: The Sky Isn't Falling, Raising Resilient Adolescents in the New Age of Anxiety.

• 1:04:49Josh Axe?

  Very creative titles, but very effective. You know, that sounds like a psychoanalyst wrote the book. But Eric, Erica Komisar, you can find it, again, bookstores nationwide, amazon.com as well. I want to encourage you to check out her books. And hey, we'd love to hear your, hear your comments. You know, on this show, I really am focused on bringing people on that I have an interest in learning from and iron sharpens our growing from having on the show. And so I love to be able to have people, Erica, like you, on the show, where I can learn about being a great parent, learning about how to heal wounds myself. You know, nobody had, I had great parents, but nobody had a perfect childhood, and doing

• 1:05:30Josh Axe?

  everything I can to overcome depression, anxiety, you know, high cortisol, living in a state of anxiousness. And so I think these are really important things. And the show here is really focused on helping you heal physically, mentally, spiritually, and taking your health and your life to the next level. So I want to say, thanks so much for watching and listening to the podcast here. By the way, the number one thing you can do to support the show is subscribe. By the way, sometimes we have episodes that can be shadow banned because we talk about a lot of controversial things, everything from cancer to RFK Jr. A number of things and even some, you know, controversial things that we cover on the show today. So subscribing, if you're subscribed,

• 1:06:14Josh Axe?

  you'll always get notified that we had a show here. And also sharing, there are so many people that don't know the truth about how to create a really emotionally healthy environment for themselves and for their others. So I hope you've enjoyed this episode. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you on the next episode.