Fast-Tracking Financial Freedom (in Her 30s!) with JUST 5 Rentals

Five rental properties are all you need to change your life. This income alone could cover all your bills, allowing your entire paycheck to go toward investing as you're fast-tracked to financial freedom and early retirement. Even if you’ve got a demanding job with long hours and limited free time, investing in real estate is STILL the right move. Today’s guest was able to utilize her (very limited) downtime to build a rental portfolio of six units, all while managing her hectic day job. Now, she’s in a great position to retire early and is even eyeing her dream retirement house as we speak. Jessica Cruel is editor-in-chief at Allure & SELF, but before the big title, she was living in expensive Newark, New Jersey, looking to invest in real estate while making less than six figures a year. After watching her ex-boyfriend successfully do a real estate deal, she thought, “If he can do it, I can do it better.” So, she bought a rental with multiple units but a sizable renovation checklist. It took her two years to turn it around, but now, she’s cashing the checks that will fund her early retirement. Six years later, Jessica has a six-unit portfolio, with enough income to cover her bills and a hunger to build her small, slow-but-steady, financial freedom-enabling real estate portfolio. If she can do it in her pricey area, why can’t you? In This Episode We Cover The single best strategy for starting in real estate (it will save you a TON) Why you DON’T need a huge real estate portfolio to retire early How to invest in real estate even with a demanding day job How NOT to get your AC unit stolen while you’re away (seriously) Buy your retirement home now! How to have your dream home pay for itself And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1135 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  Buy five properties and you can live for free in retirement. This investor set that exact goal a few years ago and is well on her way to achieving financial freedom and the option to retire early from a demanding career with only five units in her current portfolio. And the cool thing is that she's not spending tons of cash. She's not employing some time consuming marketing strategies. She's doing strategies that you can start doing right now.

• 0:30Dave Meyer?

  What's up everyone? I'm Dave Meyer, Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets. I myself have been buying rental properties for 15 years and this podcast is here to teach you how to achieve financial freedom through real estate investing. Today, we have a great investor story for you with someone named Jessica Cruel. She lives and invests in Newark, New Jersey. And Jessica, on top of being a real estate investor, has a very impressive, interesting career in the media industry. But that demanding, full-time career that she has has motivated her to also find a path to financial freedom. So in between fashion events and board meetings, she's dealing with tenants and toilets. She's looking for deals just like the rest of us.

• 1:15Dave Meyer?

  Jessica bought her first property when she was making well under a hundred grand. And even today, she only has a modest goal of buying five properties, trying to get to about 10 units by age 40, so she can cover her housing costs in early retirement. Today, she has five of those units already locked up and she already has seemingly hundreds of stories about overcoming property management issues and inching closer to her goals one day at a time, because as we all know, that's what it takes. This is a super fun conversation and it really just shows how almost everyone can benefit from real estate investing, no matter where you're coming from. Let's get into it. Jessica, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Thank you for being here.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Thanks so much for having me. As I say, longtime listener, first time caller.

• 2:04Dave Meyer?

  It is cool that you are a longtime listener because you're in the media industry. Maybe we'll start there. You have a pretty cool job. Tell us what you do full-time.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  So I am the editor in chief of Allure and Self Publications, which are two different magazines that cover beauty for Allure and fitness and wellness for self.

• 2:23Dave Meyer?

  So why are you listening to BiggerPockets then?

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Well, of course, because I'm into real estate and, you know, everybody has to have a side hustle. So I started listening in about 2018, 2019, right before I bought my first property. Because I was trying to learn everything I could about real estate before I took that leap and bought my first investment property.

• 2:45Dave Meyer?

  Very cool. So in 2018, were you, you bought an investment property or a primary residence is the first thing you bought?

• 2:51Speaker 01

  So I bought a primary residence in 2019. I started doing my research in 2018, but I house hacked. So it was both. Is the answer like, see all of the above. I live there and also have tenants.

• 3:06Dave Meyer?

  And why did you start thinking about investing instead of just buying a primary residence? Was there someone or something that got you hooked on to the idea that real estate and your primary residence obviously can improve your own quality of life, but could also be the sort of side hustle that you were looking for?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was actually an ex-boyfriend. And I hope he's listening.

• 3:31Dave Meyer?

  We'll send it to him after this.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  My real estate portfolio is bigger than yours. So I was with a partner. And while we were together, he bought his first property. It was an investment property. It was a three family. And, you know, watching him do it all, I began to understand the power of real estate and what real estate investing could do for your future. And, you know, all I need to do, I'm a very smart person. All I need is one good example. And I'm like, okay. I think I could do that as well. So when we, so when we broke up, from that moment on, I was like, okay, I'm gonna buy a property. And then that's when I started doing my research and, you know, learning about things like house hacking and, um, you know, multifamily real estate.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  And that is what I had my eyes on. You know, I literally was like, I'm going to get a property where I could have tenants and live there as well. And so, you know, sometimes I call it my revenge rental because, you know, it was giving anything you could do, I can do better.

• 4:34Dave Meyer?

  It's funny because I actually got started somewhat, somewhat similarly. It wasn't with a, a partner. It was with a friend of mine. I was, I was, I moved to Colorado and I would go skiing with this guy. Great skier, good friend, not the brightest bulb. And he was making so much money in real estate. And I was like, if this dude could do it, I could definitely do it. And it actually worked out.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  And that's the same thing. And I remember when he, the first week, um, he brought his property, like a big disaster happened. And I was like, oh my gosh, this can be done better. But then of course I bought my first property and a big disaster happened the first week too. And I was like, okay, so this is just real estate.

• 5:12Dave Meyer?

  This is just how it happens.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  This is how it goes.

• 5:15Dave Meyer?

  I think there's something you mentioned that is super important here, which is that you who have a impressive, and I assume time-consuming, full-time career.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:27Dave Meyer?

  You still chose to house hack, which I think a lot of people who hear this concept, they understand the financial benefits, but then think, I don't want to live with tenants or I don't have time to manage a property on top of what I'm doing full-time. So how did you make the time and mental energy to go after a house hack even when you have this pretty all-consuming, full-time career?

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Look, I'm a long-term plan person. I have a five-year plan, I have a 10-year plan. I live in New Jersey. I'm in the New York City area, so everything here is very expensive. And for me, it was a matter of looking at the math. I could keep having my one-bedroom apartment in New Jersey and pay $2,100 a month, or I could own a whole house and eventually pay $0 and make money. And I don't care how you split that. It's worth any amount of time. I was like, I will work it out, like pay no rent. And

• 6:27Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  By the way, I go around telling people, oh, I don't pay rent. Talk to me nice. I don't, I don't pay rent.

• 6:33Dave Meyer?

  That's amazing. Yeah.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I think, you know, it is hard. It has been a tough time, but actually, I think living in my prop, my first property was, it made all the difference. And I personally take a very slow approach to real estate. So

• 6:48Dave Meyer?

  Love that.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  You know, when I bought the house, it had tenants in it. So from day one, I was making rental income. And then I renovated the other apartment. Then I got tenants in that apartment. Then the tenant that was there when I bought the house, they moved out. I renovated that apartment. That took me like two years.

• 7:03Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  It was like maybe two years before I was fully running at the level that it could do income wise. So I think if I would have tried to do everything quickly, it would have overwhelmed me, but I just take a slow approach, you know, because I do have a great job. I'm able to pay the mortgage, you know, if I have to pay the mortgage, I'd rather pay the mortgage and take my time to do things right, get the right tenants in there, especially since we all live together.

• 7:27Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Um, and they are all on top of me. Uh, so I think those are things that I just felt were really important. So slow and steady and then, you know, take a break. Like I'm not touching the house for two weeks and then come back.

• 7:40Dave Meyer?

  Yeah. I absolutely love the slow and steady approach. And I'm curious if you're able to do that, because I think mentally it makes sense a lot of people, but then you get in the property and you want to go, go, go. Perhaps you listen to the show and you hear people who buy 10 units or 50 units and it's very appealing to do those things as well. But you mentioned earlier, you're a long-term plan person. So like, do you have a long-term plan for your real estate? And so did you have that even when you first began buying your first property?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. When I bought my first property, I think the goal was, let's see how this goes. Like, let's just see if I can do it, you know? Because I'm also, I'm a single woman. I'm by myself. So working with contractors, working with, you know, tenants, um, I just wanted to feel it out first and see how it went and see if I was going to make money, right? Because also listening to this podcast, you know, sometimes it doesn't work out. And so. I thought I would just see what would happen. And, you know, living in this New Jersey, New York area, it was the only way I could buy a house to have other people's rent to help pay the mortgage. It was really the only way I could like afford. And so after I bought the first one and I was in it for a couple of years, I was like, I can do this again on credit.

• 8:54Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  And that is the thing that gets you. Okay. First of all, I called my houses my children because it's just like having kids. It's like you have that first sweet kid and you're like, oh my God, I want five kids. And then you have that second kid and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't want any more kids. So I think once I had the first one and I was like, it worked. My, my point was proven, the math was mathing.

• 9:20Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  That's when I was like, you know what? I do have a plan. I want more of these. Here's how I'm going to build my portfolio. My goal is to have 10 doors, five properties by 40, which is in five years. So.

• 9:33Dave Meyer?

  Oh, that's amazing.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:35Dave Meyer?

  Having that level of specificity is probably the best thing you can do as a real estate investor. And very, very few people do it. I've come up with them and then I deviate from my own plan. So I'm not perfect on this either. But just having that thing to aim for is so important because 10 units, five properties, that is feasible, right? Like that feels doable, even with the other demands on your time and mind share and all of that. And I think so many times people listen to this podcast and you just think, I gotta keep growing. And it's seems like this ever building exponential thing where you always have to be in growth mode and figuring out new ways to find deals and finance stuff. And maybe you don't.

• 10:19Dave Meyer?

  Like if you want to grow to be huge and to be a tycoon, you do need to do that. But if you have a more modest, normal goal, I would say, maybe you don't need to do that, right?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Well, even if I only have two properties, I have more real estate than the average person. Right? So I think for me, I have backtracked towards how much income do I need?

• 10:42Dave Meyer?

  Yes.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Right? Because at the end of the day, I know these properties are. Part of my retirement plan. So it wasn't like I was like, oh, I want to own five million dollars in a real estate portfolio. No, it was more like I want to get to a point where I have five thousand dollars coming from these properties.

• 10:57Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  So I build based on that. I build saying this is the way I'm going to get to five thousand, like everything is taken care of. Electricity, rent, mortgage, insurance, everything. And then I will have five thousand dollars left to just take home to me. And I think that is how I've built my plan. It's not about how much property can I have? It's about, I just, I just want enough, enough to have five thousand dollars a month. And for me, that math is five properties, maybe less, depending on if I, you know, what I do. And when I get that, I might stop and I'd be like, actually, I'm good. You know, that's that, you know?

• 11:35Dave Meyer?

  I absolutely love that. You are speaking my language. I think that knowing what is enough is so important. And honestly, it's not that hard. Like you just came up with a number, right? Five thousand dollars. I imagine you spent some time thinking about what number that should be, but yeah, that's a lot easier than just thinking, oh, I need eighty nine units. Why? You could have eighty nine terrible units. You could have ten amazing units and get the same thing and one's a heck of a lot easier. So it's just, it's so much better to build your portfolio working backwards from your eventual goal. And so Jessica, I'm, I'm very, uh, I, I'm inspired by this. I think it's so important for everyone to be thinking about these kinds of things.

• 12:16Dave Meyer?

  All right, everyone, we do need to take a quick break, but we'll have more with investor Jessica Cruel right after this. They say real estate investing is passive, but if you've spent a Sunday night buried in spreadsheets, you probably know better. We hear it from investors all the time, spending hours every month sorting through receipts and bank transactions, trying to guess if you're making any money. And when tax season hits, it's like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube blindfolded. That's where Baseline comes in. BiggerPockets Official Banking Platform. It tags every rent payment and expense to the right property and Schedule E category as you bank. So you get tax ready financial reports in real time, not at the end of the year.

• 12:59Dave Meyer?

  You can instantly see how each unit is performing, where you're making money and losing money, and make changes while it still counts. Head over to baseline.com/biggerpockets to start protecting your profits. And right now, you can get a special $100 bonus when you sign up. Thanks again to our sponsor, Baseline. There's a point where basically every investor realizes traditional financing stops scaling with you. At first, it works. You qualify with your income, your job, your tax returns. But as you grow, that model starts to break. Now, it's not really about your personal income. It's about the income from your properties. That's where DSCR lending comes in.

• 13:41Dave Meyer?

  And it's why a lot of investors end up working with lenders like Host Financial. Host Financial qualifies deals based on property income, not personal income. So you're not dealing with W2s, or tax returns, or DTI constraints. And with 80 to 85% LTV, you can stay more flexible as you scale. It's just a different framework, one that tends to align better with how investing actually works. If you're buying rentals, refinancing, or growing your portfolio, go to hostfinancial.com, that's H-O-S-T financial.com, and see what you qualify for. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle? Active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question.

• 14:26Dave Meyer?

  What if you could buy brand new construction homes 10% below market value in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent to retirement does. They're a full-service turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit biggerpockets.com/retirement to learn more. A lot of insurance companies compete on one thing: speed. But if you're protecting an investment property... Worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Should speed really be the priority?

• 15:10Dave Meyer?

  Enreg believes strong coverage starts with understanding the property, the risks and the realities of ownership. That's why they don't rush the process. Their policies are designed for real world claims, not just quick quotes. If you want insurance built to protect your investment when it matters most, visit n r e i g dot com slash B P L L C and learn more today.

• 15:32Henry Washington?

  If you own rental properties, you know, the job does not stop at closing. There's tenant screening, rent collection, maintenance calls and the paperwork that comes up with all of it. If you're managing more than one to two doors, that workload adds up fast. That's where Mind, BiggerPockets' preferred full-service property management partner comes in. Mind is built specifically for real estate investors with experienced property management teams, local market expertise and purpose-built technology. They support leasing, rent collection, maintenance coordination and reporting. Whether you're managing one rental or scaling towards your 10th, Mind is built to grow with you. It frees up your time to focus on finding your next deal instead of fielding maintenance calls. And it's not just about time.

• 16:16Henry Washington?

  If you're a BiggerPockets Pro member, Mind will save you $500 for every home you onboard, up to $10,000 in your first year. Check mind.co to save time, money and frustration. That's M Y N D dot C O.

• 16:36Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Let's get back into this week's investor conversation with Jessica Krul. So you did a house hack at first. Like, what were the details? It was in New Jersey, I assume, but tell us a little bit more about the deal.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so after getting rejected many, many a time for my offers, I found a duplex, but it has an above-ground kind of garage level situation that was already redone as kind of like a second space or a third space, rather. So I could live in the bottom of the property and still have two people with their own separate apartments. But it's a separate entrance. And all of that. So three kitchens, the top two apartments are three bedroom, two bath. And then mine is a one, one.

• 17:21Dave Meyer?

  Oh, nice.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Bought it in twenty nineteen for four twenty five. I put five percent down, which is a little bit more than I had to. Because I could use first time home buyer benefits, but I decided to go ahead and put five percent down because I had the cash. And at that time, it did need renovation. So I redid kitchens and floors. You know, it was this cosmetic stuff.

• 17:44Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  That I spent way too much money on. I like nice things. And you know, that was before I was like in the mindset of this is for tenants. It doesn't have to be nice, but like, you know, redid quartz countertops, resanded the floors, put down new vinyl flooring where needed, you know, that kind of thing. And it had a tenant when I bought it. So a tenant was there who was on government assistance. So, you know, that was a nice steady check. That's where I learned about. I spent a lot of time at the government office, learning about that. And so that was my first property, but pretty soon after I bought it, I had my first disaster.

• 18:19Dave Meyer?

  You have to cut your teeth somehow. It happens to everyone. So how, how soon after?

• 18:24Speaker 01

  It was so quick.

• 18:25Dave Meyer?

  Oh, really?

• 18:26Speaker 01

  I, yeah, bought it mid-July. By the end of the July, I had my first disaster. Like two weeks.

• 18:30Dave Meyer?

  What was it?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  So I got an architect to like, look at the house and just tell me what I needed in order to upgrade it to an official three family. And so we're doing the tour. He's like, I take him to the backyard. And then I looked down and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm going to stop you. There used to be two HVAC units right there that are no longer there.

• 18:49Dave Meyer?

  What? Like a condenser for?

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, like two huge HVAC condensers were like

• 18:56Dave Meyer?

  Oh, my God.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Gone. Copper wire, gone. So luckily, you know, you buy a house, you have insurance and insurance definitely covers HVAC units getting stolen. So.

• 19:06Dave Meyer?

  I'm sorry you had to learn that, but

• 19:08Speaker 01

  I know, but now I know. So we got those replaced and, and all of that. But it was my first lesson. Day one, when you move in, first thing you do is get security cameras all around the place. So it's just little things that I learned along the way. But, you know, living, you learn.

• 19:25Dave Meyer?

  In my experience, you know how the people say like celebrities die in three? I feel like just like real estate failures happen in three.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:33Dave Meyer?

  Every time it's like you get that the HVAC stall and you're like, what's next? There's gonna be something. And then you'll be like six months will be chill. You'll be fine and you're just waiting for the shoe to drop. And then you'll get hit three times, something like that. It just always comes in waves.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  I believe that so keenly. Like my second house was even more an adventure, let me tell you. And I was like on eggshells for months being like, it's coming. It's something.

• 20:01Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, right.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Because these two terrible things have happened. One more and then I'll be done.

• 20:06Dave Meyer?

  It sounds awful and it is when it happens. It's not fun, but also every time it happens, you get a little bit better at dealing with it.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:15Dave Meyer?

  It it always hurts financially that, you know, that it stinks. But I think the first time, honestly, emotionally, it's the hardest because you're like, oh, my God. I just put so much money into this big, important investment. Now I need to put more money into it and things aren't going well. And it can sort of feel like things are getting out of control. In time, you really do learn to just be like, OK, I can figure this out. I've done this before and it stinks and it's not fun. But you start to see it just as part of doing business. And it's not this catastrophe that is going to upend your entire investment or your entire portfolio or your strategy or your retirement. It's just part of being a real estate investor, just like every business, unfortunately, has its ups and downs.

• 20:59Dave Meyer?

  The part of owning rental properties, the downs are pretty far down and they're frustrating. But it also is in service of this much, much bigger thing.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  You know, I think also, as you said, everything honestly comes back to that first time. You know, every time I think about that feeling of being in that yard and seeing those HVAC units missing.

• 21:18Dave Meyer?

  Oh, my God.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  If I can get through that, everything else is like a piece of cake, you know? Like, because I was dumb and I I truly tell people like, you know, what made you get into real estate? It's like you have to be naive in order to buy your first property. Like, there's no other way you would do it. You know, like if you knew all the trouble it could cause, you would be like, so wait, I'm gonna buy this thing. For a hundred thousand dollars and then I'm gonna have to spend more money every few months and then people are gonna wreck it and then what? Why would I buy it?

• 21:51Dave Meyer?

  But aren't you happy you did it?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  But I'm so happy I did, right? And you know, I laugh, I laugh and cry all the way to the bank.

• 21:59Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. There, it is definitely worth it, but you're gonna take some lumps along the way, unfortunately. But I think it, it just also makes you a better investor because you also learn when you're going to look at a property, you're like, okay, that fridge is looking a little old.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:18Dave Meyer?

  Count three grand that I'm gonna need to put in, or I don't see the security system, I don't see the jail around my HVAC units, now I need to account for that. So that it's not a surprise in the future. There's still gonna be surprises, don't get me wrong, but you can reduce the amount of surprises that come up because every time you learn, you learn how to protect yourself, how to, to find great tenants, to find great contractors, and it does really get sort of easier each consequential property that you go on to go buy.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  And I know what to ask. You know, I think the first property, you just don't know what you don't know. And then once you learn things, now you go into a house and you know what questions to ask. You know, like, how old's the roof? You know, like, how old's the HVAC? You know to ask those things and it makes you a better, like you said, a better investor overall.

• 23:06Dave Meyer?

  You know, if you do this for a year, two years, three years, you're gonna learn a lot. Like, you're gonna be in a very good position if you start now. Two, three years from now, you're gonna know a heck of a lot more than you do about rental property investing, and it takes a lot of the mystery out of it. Before we take a break, everyone, just a heads up that BiggerPockets is hosting a really cool, fun new deal analysis challenge this week only from June 16th to June 23rd. Here's the deal. If you analyze seven properties using BiggerPockets calculators during that time, you could be entered into a random drawing to win a BiggerPockets Pro membership,

• 23:45Dave Meyer?

  a free general admission ticket to BPCon 2025 in Las Vegas, and a $100 gift card to the BiggerPockets bookstore. Head to biggerpockets.com/7deals for all the info on how to enter. All right, we gotta take a quick break, but we'll be right back. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options. I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming. It was pretty time consuming and still, the site wasn't coming out the way I wanted it to. Then I tried Hostinger and everything was super simple. I asked Hostinger's AI to build a clean site for her business and

• 24:28Dave Meyer?

  it had a working version up in minutes. No coding or designer needed. Plus, its AI agent helps with SEO, website copy, and email marketing after launch. You get domain, website, email, all in one account. And right now, you can get Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing through December 14th. So snag Hostinger's services at their lowest prices before the sale ends. Create your website today for just $1.99. Go to hostinger.com/realestate and use code REALESTATE for an additional 10% off Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing. I just booked a ski trip to Park City and I've already got the whole thing planned

• 25:08Dave Meyer?

  out. Five days, first tracks every morning before the crowds show up, my knees reminding me I'm not 25 anymore by the second run, and an embarrassing number of overpriced burritos at the lodge. I don't even care. This is the trip I look forward to all year. But here's the part I actually appreciate. The practical side of my brain kicking in is that my place doesn't have to just sit there empty the whole time I'm away. I can list my space on Airbnb and bring in a little extra income while I'm out getting humbled on a mountain. And with the co-host network, I'm not the one handling all of it. You can partner with a vetted local co-host who can create your listing, manage reservations, message guests, and even handle

• 25:53Dave Meyer?

  the styling. So I get to fully focus on my trip and my place is still working for me the whole time. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com/host. Investing in real estate has always been smart, but it hasn't always been simple. Now it's both, thanks to the Fundrise Flagship Fund. The Fundrise Flagship Fund launched more than Five years ago with a mission of delivering low fee access to blue chip private market real estate. Today, the Fundrise flagship fund has grown to manage more than a billion dollars of real estate on behalf of hundreds of thousands of investors, making it one of the largest funds of its kind. For those who believe real estate has an important role to play in their portfolio strategy,

• 26:36Dave Meyer?

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• 27:11Henry Washington?

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• 28:19Speaker 03

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 28:53Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back, everyone. Let's jump back in with Jessica. So let's talk about how you sort of moved on and evolved as an investor. You did this house hack. You said it took you maybe like two years to fully stabilize. You felt like it was in the place you wanted it to be. Then what did you do from there?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  After two years, I just started building my cash up, you know, because it was stable and I was finally making money. I was fully booked with tenants. And so I was finally able to start to save for my next property. So that's what I did because also knowing the way that I do things, I was gonna have to put a lot more down on the second property.

• 29:29Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Because I was gonna have to put 20% down. So I just saved my money, had my tenants, things got calm. So, you know, the pandemic happened and then finally, when we got out of the pandemic, I bought my second property in 2023.

• 29:44Dave Meyer?

  Same location?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, five minutes from the other house, really right down the street. It was a three family. And so I bought that house and I said to myself, I don't want to do reno. That was my one thing I said is like, I'm not doing reno this time because by that time I was editor in chief and I knew what I had time for and what I didn't have time for. And I did not have time to be fooling with contractors. So I found this amazing property that had been fully renovated. It's an old house, 1920s, but it's been fully gutted. And the HVACs came in jail. So I was like, wonderful. Everything is brand new, right? Everything is new. I almost didn't buy the house or I put my offer in and I tried to get out of this house. I was like, oh no, I don't want this house anymore. Because we went on the inspection and as you go on inspection, you go top to bottom and everything's looking great. My inspector's like, oh, this is a nice house.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  This reno is well done. We get down to the basement and we were standing in an inch of water.

• 30:34Dave Meyer?

  Oh, no.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  That's when I was telling my real estate agent, I was like, I don't want this house anymore. Get me out of this deal.

• 30:39Dave Meyer?

  What was it?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  So the drain that went to the sewer was made of terracotta pipe. And it had gotten cracked and so dirt and roots were getting into the line, which was backing everything up. So we had to do a scope and we had to do all of that. They had to fix that because I was like, that's not my issue. Uh, and then I moved into the house. So that was my first adventure with property number two.

• 31:03Dave Meyer?

  So you said something about time, which I think is so important and overlooked here. You said you were looking for something that wasn't going to be renovated, which I personally have done a lot over the course of my career because I work full time. I'm pretty busy and I choose to find properties that just work with my lifestyle. Was that a hard decision? And I think for our audience, like, did you have to give up some of the financial benefit? Like, do you feel like you had to take something that maybe wasn't going to earn you as much because it fit into your lifestyle?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yes, for sure. The numbers aren't as good as on my first property. Sweat equity is something that I don't have. And I look at these things as long-term investments, right? So the math works. Like, for me, it's more about, does it cover itself? Right? Like, as long as I don't have to pay mortgage, then I'm good. Also, you have to realize that now I have two properties, so they work together.

• 32:07Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Like, all these doors together pay for everything and I make money still. So I do think that I looked at them more together as a grouping than like, this one property doesn't work or does work. It's tight. It works, but it's tight. But I really couldn't do that reno to force equity. And also, it was supposed to be turnkey. It was not. That's another thing, like, turnkey is not a thing, but I'm glad that I did because, you know, I'm not a big fan of mortgage lenders saying, you know, marry the house, date the rate. You know, I don't really love that.

• 32:40Dave Meyer?

  Oh, I hate that.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Because you cannot predict the rates. But what I say to myself is this property is going to increase in value over a long period of time. Rents are going to increase over a long period of time. And maybe, not 100%, but maybe I'll be Able to refinance, right? So all those factors, if I'm close enough on the math will be like, you know what? We're close enough. This is a 30 year investment. Over 30 years, I'm going to get my money's worth. You know, so I, I think of it that way instead of being like, oh, I'm not going to be a thousand dollars off this one house a month. Like, I'm not about that kind of math.

• 33:13Dave Meyer?

  First and foremost, I love the idea of thinking about it holistically as a whole portfolio.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:20Dave Meyer?

  And you can only do that because you have your long-term plan.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:24Dave Meyer?

  If you're just buying one-off deals and evaluating them individually, which you need to do, like you need to buy good deals. Don't get me wrong. You cannot just add things to your portfolio just for the sake of it. But if you have this long-term plan for your portfolio, then your criteria for what a good deal is might shift. It no longer needs to be, how do I maximize every single dollar today? Like for Jessica, it sounds like, you know, within five years, so going back, this was two years ago. So you were thinking at that point, within seven years, I need to be producing $5,000 a month.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:00Dave Meyer?

  And it sounds like even though you might not be maximizing every dollar today, that's in service of that long-term goal, number one. And number two, perhaps even more importantly, it's what you have time for while still working your job, which is the other sort of totally essential part of your plan for the next seven years, right? Like you still need that job. And so you can't say, I'm going to do a renovation that's going to take time away from my job when I still plan to work for the next seven years. And so it's just a perfect example of why having these goals allows you to just work backwards in a much more efficient way. And honestly, at least for me, I've found it to take a lot of pressure off.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:43Dave Meyer?

  To not think like, oh my God, is this deal going to be amazing next year? I don't know. Is it going to be amazing 10 years from now? Pretty sure it will be.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:50Dave Meyer?

  You know, like that, that part is pretty easy to predict. So I, I just want to commend you for having a, I think, a very mature look at how to build a real estate portfolio. Cause you're constantly bombarded with like, buy more. Buy more has to hit these rules and those rules don't work for everyone. And instead you found a way and you found deals that work for you and your own personal goals.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Right. And it also, I think, you know, when we talk about some of the things that happen that cost a lot of money. Like if I have, something happens and I'm like dropping $10,000. I say to myself, this is what I have a job for, right? I have a job for this exact reason. And two, it's $10,000 now, but I'm gonna have this house for 30 years. A $10,000 on something I don't pay the mortgage for on a monthly basis. My tenants do. So it's like, in the grand scheme of things, that's not a bad investment.

• 35:39Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, I, I'm actually thinking about this. So I have this property I've owned for 10 ish years now. It's done great. It's great property. I'm hearing from my property manager, I probably have to replumb the whole house. It's like a 5,000 square foot triplex. So this, this probably could cost me 30, 40 grand. And if you look at it on paper, I'm not making money this year. Maybe it's gonna eat into next year. But in a good year, in a normal year, this thing's making me 40 or 50 grand easy. And this is my retirement. I could hold on to this thing. It could probably single-handedly pay for my retirement if I just hold on to it for another 10 years. And so you gotta do it. Does, am we gonna have a good cash and cash return this year? Nope. Is it gonna stink? Yes.

• 36:21Dave Meyer?

  But it's just sort of having that long-term view and knowing what role this property plays in my portfolio. I don't know if you know Chad Carson, he wrote some books for BiggerPockets. He's on the show a lot, but he was, he was on the other day and he was saying like, he has a job description for every property in his portfolio. And I love that idea. So I'm like, this is my retirement and it's, it's job is to be there when I want to retire 10 or 15 years from now. And so I'm gonna invest in this plumbing that's gonna make it great for the next 30 or 40 years. And similar to you, it's like this triplex has its own job. And it's like be there to put off 1,500 bucks a month in seven years. Its job is not to be perfectly optimized for the year that I buy it.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think with that long-term view, it just makes it all so much more rewarding. Because I think about this is, I'm playing the long. Long game.

• 37:15Dave Meyer?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  I'm not playing the short game. And also, that's what taxes are for. Okay, it's like, write it off. It's gonna be a write off.

• 37:21Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  That was another reason why I bought the house is because it was around 2023 when my taxes started to look a little different. Because, you know, you can carry over and all that stuff. And when I got my tax bill in 2022, I was like, wait a minute. It's time for me to buy another house because I don't like paying Uncle Sam money.

• 37:40Dave Meyer?

  That's the part that gets a little addicting, where you're like, okay, I had this plan to buy five, but what if I keep doing it and I never pay taxes?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness, that would be wonderful.

• 37:50Dave Meyer?

  So where are you at now? So you bought your duplex and you bought a three unit in 2023. What's happened since then?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  So I am actively looking for my third property. So kind of like you said about retirement. You know, the way that my houses are planned, it's like four and a possible, really. But I want to buy a house in Savannah, Georgia. I am from Georgia originally. I love Georgia. And so the house I'm looking for in Savannah is like my retirement home. Who knows when I'll actually get down there and live in it? But it'll be a rental until I move into it. So it's my first kind of like single family. But the goal is to buy something that has a carriage house or the possibility of a carriage house. So that I could live in the main house eventually myself

• 38:38Speaker 01

  and then have a student or a nurse or someone live in the carriage house. So it would still make income. So that would be door seven and eight. So that's what I'm looking for now, but it's a little bit different. It's a little bit harder actually to buy because now I'm looking at something like, would I want to live here?

• 38:55Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, right.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  When you're buying a rental property, you're like, does this work for tenants? Fine.

• 38:59Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  You know, is this Ikea kitchen? Who cares? You know, like, but I think part of being a real estate investor is to see the potential in anything and to know the math around that potential, right? You have to be able to say, okay, this is a garage right now. But it's got electricity and it's got hot water, which means it could be a carriage house.

• 39:20Dave Meyer?

  Right.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And so, you know, you look at things a little bit different. So that's what I'm looking for currently.

• 39:25Dave Meyer?

  Cool.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  And I'm really excited because a single family in Georgia sounds so much easier than these multi-families in New Jersey. We'll see what I find. Another option is to find a place that has a short-term rental license so that I could dip my toe into Airbnb. But I would definitely have a management company.

• 39:44Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  I think that's been the biggest debate lately is like, okay, the more properties you get, the more doors you get, the more tenants you get, do I need a management company? And so that's something I've been thinking a lot about lately. But I just, I'm addicted to the money.

• 39:57Dave Meyer?

  Oh, yeah. I, yeah, it is. Like, the stuff that you're close by to, it is kind of easy. But if you're buying in Savannah, you're gonna need a property management company either way, right? If you do long-term or short-term.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:09Dave Meyer?

  I guess if you do a single family and it's a long-term tenant, you make, you can maybe make it work.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, long-term family with kids. I'd be like, look, handle your own stuff. Pretend I'm not here. Y'all live here.

• 40:24Dave Meyer?

  Do you know people in the area? Like, if something, if you really needed someone to get there? Yeah, okay.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know people in the area.

• 40:31Dave Meyer?

  Okay.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  But, you know, I also think something people don't think about is their real estate agents. So I recently signed on a new real estate agent to help me find a place in Savannah. And my real estate agent here in New Jersey and my one in Savannah are both investors themselves. And so it's really important, you know, right now she manages properties. So when we both go into a property, we're both looking at it like investors. And I think that makes all the difference. You know, having someone who does this, who manages property, who manages tenants, who has their own rental properties, makes it so much easier. So usually it's my real estate agent that I call and I'm like, "Hey, so about HVAC units getting stolen, what about you?"

• 41:10Dave Meyer?

  Did they know? Were they like, ah?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yes, she was like, call your insurance and also here's a guy who can put them in jail. You know, like, so she, she definitely helps me out.

• 41:21Dave Meyer?

  Well, I want to mention something you said about like buying for your own retirement. I think this is one of the coolest things you could do as a real estate investor. I had never really considered it myself. I bought a short-term rental that I use for my own personal enjoyment. So like, that's kind of like this, but I'm actually, I closed today on my new primary residence. I'm very excited about it, but in the last few months, I've been living in a midterm rental and I've gotten to know our landlords. They're very nice people and that's what they did. They're like a few years away from retirement and so they bought this really cool place. They furnished it the way they want to furnish it and now they midterm rental it. And I mean, I think we're good tenants. We're taking good care of the place and they look for people who are going to take care of the place.

• 42:06Dave Meyer?

  But you could see just when I met them, like how excited they were and how much pride they had in this place and it was just motivating for them, you know, motivating for them. I'm sure in their day-to-day jobs to, you know, do what they need to do and get to that retirement. But to be good landlords and to go through some of the ups and downs that we've been talking about in this episode, you know, you are willing to deal with something getting broken or needing to make some upgrades because that's your retirement. That's kind of your dream and I'm probably a little bit too, too far away from retiring to do it now, but I think for people who are getting close, this is a super cool way to make a strong investment and to really set yourself up for the life that you're hoping

• 42:50Dave Meyer?

  to achieve through real estate in the first place. So that's super cool.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think it's also, we play a numbers game, right? I see the potential in Savannah as a place and I fell in love with it. I'm from the state and I just felt really strongly that I need to buy before the market gets to saturate it with people moving down there. And so who knows when I'll actually move into it. Until then, it'll be a rental property. And I think my original dream was that I would live there six months, live in a vacation location abroad, like my next number four. Supposed to be a house abroad. That is definitely supposed to be short term rental. So we'll see what happens and we'll see what I find that I fall in love with. But I definitely wanted to have a place because then I know exactly how much money I need. If I know what my mortgage is at that last house, I know exactly how much money I need these properties to make.

• 43:37Dave Meyer?

  That's so true. Yeah. If you have fixed debt on it, it's like, there's no mystery about it. You're not wondering what this retirement might look like. You know, exactly. And you've probably paid off some of that mortgage too, by the time that you're moving in. So that's even better.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:52Dave Meyer?

  Well, this has been so much fun, Jessica. Thank you so much for joining us here today. Do you have any last advice for our audience as they're working their way towards financial freedom through real estate?

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Like we said, slow and steady is so important. And I also think that, you know, real estate doesn't have to be 50 doors. It could be two, you know, it could be five. And I see these properties as something that allows me to do my day job a little bit more freely. Right? It allows me to have the creative freedom to be a risk taker at work because I know that I have this safety net of homes that I can lean back on. And that can mean, you know, the me not paying rent or mortgage. That could be, oh, you know, I need money. I can sell one and they've appreciated over time. So I just think looking at real estate as not only a retirement plan, but also a freedom gateway for your own day to day life, I think is really important.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Because I just move differently in my job as editor in chief, knowing that I come home to these properties. And I'm able to put up with the temporary pain of, you know, all that happens. But also I always say I'm probably the only editor in chief who lives in like a basement.

• 45:00Dave Meyer?

  Say it proudly.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Known to man. Yes. I'm like, but I do that because it allows me to, you know, buy more properties and to have the future that I want. And so I'm just so happy that I did make the decision. I do think it's totally worth it, no matter what I've been through. And I hope more people, more women, more women of color, more single women get into it.

• 45:22Dave Meyer?

  Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights and your experience with us, Jessica. It's been a lot of fun having you here today. If you want to learn more about Jessica's journey, you also have an awesome Instagram account called This House Is Trying To Kill Me, which I love the name.

• 45:39Dave Meyer?

  So if you want to learn more from Jessica, you could definitely go check that out. Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you next time.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are, with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters, so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich, together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

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