Jocko Underground: It's ALL a Test.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 125, sitting with Echo Charles. I was talking to some young military personnel recently. I was talking about combat, talking about war, talking about how that's what we wanted. And these guys were young, because that's what they wanted. Combat, war, I get it. And part of it is, it's the ultimate test. You actually hear that, you ever heard that? War is the ultimate test, combat is the ultimate test.

• 0:35Jocko Willink?

  And, and if you're in the military, especially if you're in combat arms, specifically like an infantryman or special operations, then it is full on, this is the test. This is the test. Like, how do you compare the football game with the combine? Right, so you do the combine. Did you guys do the combine in college? Wasn't a thing yet?

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we do the combine test.

• 1:01Jocko Willink?

  So you're doing the test in college, right?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the combine is an event, an actual event. Then there's the combine like event, like exercises that you do.

• 1:09Jocko Willink?

  But it started as just like a test.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a test, but it's a test held at a certain time for a certain reason.

• 1:16Jocko Willink?

  Now it is.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17Jocko Willink?

  Didn't used to be that.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it always was ever since I ever knew, but.

• 1:20Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so it's a test, it's like you're, you're learning where, what your capabilities might be on the real field, right?

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  Otherwise you see Tom Brady with like a nine inch or whatever, a four inch vertical jump or whatever he had.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  And you're like, well, this dude, but inside he's thinking, put me on the field, put me in the game, give me the ultimate test. Not the test of my 40, not the test of my 225 bench for reps. He doesn't care about that test.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49Jocko Willink?

  He cares about, let me go into combat for him, which is on the field. So if you're in the military, like I said, if you're infantry, if you're special operations, you look, you do the shooting drills, you do the ruck, you do the run, you do the swims, you do the land warfare, the land navigations, you're doing all the stuff, doing like, basically you're doing a combine all the time.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 2:13Jocko Willink?

  But you don't really know.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  You want to know.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  You want to know. You want to know how good you are shooting tactics, your physical strength, your mental strength, your ability to detach, your ability to think, your ability to problem solve, to be disciplined, to get along with other people, to figure out what your weaknesses are, admit them. So it's a, it's a great test, test. And so, listen, when you're a young special operations person, you're a young Marine, you're a young soldier, you want that test, the real test, the combat test.

• 2:50Jocko Willink?

  Here's the thing, you don't always get to take that test. And even if you get to take the test, you don't get to take it very often.

• 3:01Jocko Willink?

  It just doesn't happen that way.

• 3:04Jocko Willink?

  And, and I was, I was talking, again, talking to these young military guys and I'm like, um, I'm kind of a little bit realizing what I'm saying. Cause you're kind of getting people fired up for the big test. In the back of your mind, you're like, hey, some of these guys aren't ever going to get that test.

• 3:24Jocko Willink?

  And I realized as I'm talking to them.

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  And what I told them was, everything's a test.

• 3:33Jocko Willink?

  Everything's a test and that is a good attitude to have.

• 3:39Jocko Willink?

  The alarm clock going off in the morning is a test. The last rep of the workout, it's a test. The doughnut that's trying to get down your throat, that's a test. The emotions that you're having that trying to dictate your life, that's a test. The people that are trying to drag you down and pull you into the, the, the bar.

• 4:02Jocko Willink?

  Just to keep you out until two o'clock in the morning, or if you're not in California, five o'clock in the morning. That's a test. The comfort is a test. Comfort's a test. The ease, the ease is a test. The warmth and the laziness and the inertia, it's all a test.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  And I think if you, if you see it that way, and you think about it that way, each and everything that you do is a test and the answer, what it answers, what it reveals is who you are. Who you are. Do you give up? Do, or do you push through? Do you get frustrated or do you get better? It's a good way to frame things. And this is like, you know, I wrote about this in Discipline Goes Freedom Field Manual. Like the alarm clock goes on, goes off, it's a test. But that was just one little test that I talked about. It's all a test. Cause it helps you when you think of the alarm clock as a test, it helps you. You go, this is a test right now. I'm being tested. So,

• 5:12Jocko Willink?

  see things as a test, a test of who you actually are. Everything you do, everything you say, every day, every action you take, it's all an opportunity to fail the test. And let yourself down. And become less, get a lower grade. And look, you know, you might be kicking out an A minus right now. We can float through on an A minus. Maybe you're getting a B plus. You know, Cs get degrees. I've heard that before. But let's face it. It's not where we want to be. Let's win. Let's strive.

• 5:57Jocko Willink?

  Let's become who we actually know we should become. Take the test aggressively. Max out the score. And rip down the world looking for the next test. That's what I got.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yep. Very, uh, very useful way to look at it. Cause like the, you know how, I, cause I gotta, I gotta admit.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  You failed the alarm clock test.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  A lot of the time, when people, you or whoever, you know, will say, you know, because that's not the first time I've heard you say that. And it's been a while, but when I first started hearing, oh, it's a test, this is a test, I'm like, cool, I get it, man. I get what you're saying. And I agree, but it's not all a test, bro. Sometimes it's not that serious and all this stuff. But when you really think about it, it is all a test, literally. So, so think about what a test is. So, for example, let's say you're, I don't know, exploring in the wilderness or whatever, and you come to like a bridge. And it's like, shit, this bridge goes over this big, like, I don't know, what do you call it, a valley, canyon, whatever. And if you walk across a bridge and it breaks, you die, right? Well, we'll just say

• 7:11Speaker 01

  hypothetically. So, this is the first time you've seen this bridge. What are you gonna do? You're gonna kind of push on it first. You're gonna say, oh shit, can this bridge hold me to get to the other side? Right? Can this bridge be relied upon? So what are you gonna start doing? Bro, you're gonna start testing it. You need to have a small test. If it fails a small test, bro, I'm not going on this bridge at all. I want to take one step on this bridge. See what I'm saying? Smallest test, it failed, right? What, what happens when, when it passes the small test?

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  Bigger test.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Bigger test, exactly right. Until you've tested it not only enough times, but with enough intensity, that that bridge can be relied upon to take you to the other side.

• 7:47Jocko Willink?

  There you go. Echo Charles.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And I'm like, oh, this motherf- he is correct. Jocko is correct. It is a test, and you better start passing them. Because a lot of times, yeah, a lot of, just say, and just like I say, it is up to you. Like, you can, you can pass the alarm clock test. It's not hard. Like, you can tell yourself it's hard, but not hard. Bro, just all it has to do is be important enough to you.

• 8:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And if you look at it all as a test, bro, you'd be surprised. Be surprised.

• 8:12Jocko Willink?

  You know, have you ever seen the movie A Bronx Tale?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yes, sir, I have.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  Because that's one of the main tests for the female, is does she open the door for you? So you open the door for her, she gets in the car, does she reach across and open the door for you? It's like a little test. And it's in the movie, he's watching her through the back, and she opens the door for him. So it's a little test.

• 8:35Jocko Willink?

  One of my favorite, I don't know, this is an extreme statement. I really like the scene. It is one of my favorite scenes in the movie Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Old school. The original one. OG. When he gives him that test at the end where Charlie comes in to get his reward. And Gene Wilder is like, you know, you stole, you fail, good day. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us.

• 10:00Jocko Willink?

  So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.