Second Helpings - Tom Jones

It’s week 4 of Second Helpings and we were delighted to have our most requested guest, Sir Tom Jones, over to Lennie’s for lamb shanks a lemon curd roulade and a chat about his album ‘Surrounded By Time’ in 2021. We go way back and talk about Tom growing up in the 50’s playing marbles falling in love and getting married at 16. We also hear about his beloved mother’s corned beef pie. He reminisces about meals shared with Elvis Presley, Las Vegas bourbons with Frank Sinatra & Tom’s son / manager Mark even makes an appearance telling us how his Dad isn’t a very good cook..!! We loved having you Sir Tom, thank you! Enjoy! X Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 2:07Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Second Helpings with me Jessie Ware and Lennie Ware. This week we have Sir Tom Jones, who came on the podcast in April 2021. He had a new album out called Surrounded by Time and he had fantastic stories to tell us. What did you make, Mum?

• 2:25Speaker 06

  I made lamb shanks with vegetables because I thought he was Welsh and he'd appreciate lamb. And then I made a lemon curd roulade, which is one of my strong points as a dessert.

• 2:35Jessie Ware?

  But little did we know.

• 2:36Speaker 06

  And really, little did we know that he'd helped in a synagogue when he was a boy. And he would have preferred a whole Jewish meal with chicken soup and matzo balls. And he likes chocolate, so I got it all wrong.

• 2:48Jessie Ware?

  Tom Jones coming up on Second Helpings.

• 3:05Jessie Ware?

  We have Sir Tom Jones in Mum's kitchen.

• 3:08Speaker 06

  I was caught, I feel faint.

• 3:11Speaker 07

  I'm not going to say what you said to me when I walked in.

• 3:13Jessie Ware?

  What about the knickers?

• 3:14Speaker 06

  No, I haven't said that yet. Jessica! I said, I wished I'd had two jabs because I'd have hugged you.

• 3:22Jessie Ware?

  Well, I mean, I'm sorry, I feel like we've got two flirty's in the room. This is just going to be a big flirt off. But Sir Tom, it is a pleasure to have you over for dinner.

• 3:31Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 3:31Jessie Ware?

  And just before, we've already been chatting and it's been glorious. But the first thing we got talking on was about how you were a Shabbos Goy. So can you please tell all our listeners what that is? What happened? What was going on?

• 3:42Speaker 07

  Okay. Shabbos Goy.

• 3:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 07

  Is when you, the Goyim.

• 3:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 3:47Speaker 07

  Who was non-Jewish.

• 3:48Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 07

  So we were kids, the street that I grew up in.

• 3:52Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Speaker 07

  When I got married anyway, which was like 16 years old. And the house was, was there, my wife was Catholic. She used to go to a Catholic school.

• 4:01Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:02Speaker 07

  Which was only a couple of doors away from where she lived, when I lived there later on. Um, next door to the Catholic school was a Jewish synagogue. About twenty doors down, if that, was a Baptist chapel, all in a small street. So, on Saturday.

• 4:20Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 4:21Speaker 07

  Shabbos, of course.

• 4:22Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 4:23Speaker 07

  We'd be outside, the, the, the kids playing, waiting for, for, for the rabbi to come up and, you know, the people that was gonna open up the synagogue. That morning. And then they couldn't do anything, of course, as you know.

• 4:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:38Speaker 07

  So, we would be waiting for one of us to be picked to go in and put the lights on.

• 4:44Jessie Ware?

  And was it like.

• 4:44Speaker 07

  And my father.

• 4:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 07

  Told me that when he was young, and they had boilers then, you know, with us, we just used to turn the heater on.

• 4:51Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:51Speaker 07

  You know, like that, as a switch. But when my father was a boy, they, they used to have um, a, an olive stove, a, a wooden stove down in, in the basement. To, to heat the, uh, the synagogue. So he would have to go down there, when he was a Shabbos guy.

• 5:05Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 5:06Speaker 07

  And put the, you know, get the boilers.

• 5:08Jessie Ware?

  Light the boiler. So for anybody who is a goy, and then I'm sure the goyim that, that are listening.

• 5:13Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 5:14Jessie Ware?

  Um, uh, uh, basically, on Shabbos, you aren't allowed to, if you are.

• 5:17Speaker 06

  Turn electricity on.

• 5:18Jessie Ware?

  Electricity, because it's.

• 5:19Speaker 07

  You're not supposed to do anything, are you?

• 5:21Jessie Ware?

  It's supposed to be your day of rest. So that's, I love the idea that Tom and all his mates are waiting to see who's the, who the rabbi is gonna pick.

• 5:27Speaker 06

  Did they give you money?

• 5:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Good.

• 5:29Speaker 07

  Well, that's why we were there.

• 5:32Speaker 06

  Good.

• 5:32Speaker 07

  What, do you think I'm a smug?

• 5:35Speaker 06

  Sometimes you don't get paid and they think you're doing it as a.

• 5:38Jessie Ware?

  What, and they pay you in gafilt of fish or something?

• 5:40Speaker 07

  We would hope, you know, but, but they always did.

• 5:41Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 07

  You know, fair play.

• 5:43Jessie Ware?

  And so, hon, I didn't know that you got married at fifteen.

• 5:46Speaker 07

  Sixteen.

• 5:46Jessie Ware?

  Sixteen?

• 5:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 5:47Jessie Ware?

  Wow. How did you and your late wife meet?

• 5:50Speaker 07

  Uh, we were kids together, in that same street, outside the synagogue, funny enough. It was after the war, you see. They used to have, um, an air raid shelter.

• 6:00Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 6:01Speaker 07

  Built in the middle of her street. You know, with a with a um concrete base and reinforced uh red brick building.

• 6:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 07

  That the locals would go in there from their houses. So at least you'd all be in one, I don't know whether that's a good thing or bad thing, cause when the bombs were dropping, we'd all be together, they'd have to know where everybody was. You know, so they would count in and you'd go in this place, which was in the street. Outside the synagogue and um we, you know, we used to go in there as as children, of course. Because they were dropping, well, we thought they were dropping bombs, well, we were lucky, you see, in South Wales, Cardiff, they bombed. Swansea, they bombed, all of the dock areas. But then if you heard planes over Pontypridd, where I come from, they had come in too far. Now, the problem was, they couldn't get back to France where they were coming from.

• 6:56Speaker 07

  Uh German planes, of course, but they were coming from France. So they couldn't get back with a full load on, so they'd have to drop the bombs that they didn't use for, cause they missed.

• 7:07Jessie Ware?

  Bloody hell.

• 7:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, so you think, oh shit, you know, they're gonna.

• 7:10Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 07

  We're gonna, I mean, I didn't know, I was born in nineteen forty, you know, so I I didn't know. I remember the noise and the siren and everything, you know, and but then it was explained to me later on. If you he- heard the planes come over, then they think, oh my god, you know, they're gonna drop it wherever they can. In order for them to get back. So there was a problem, you see. So they had they had big guns. Uh up on the hills, you know, around the valleys to, just in case, if they come in too far, they try and knock them out before. You know, they can unload.

• 7:43Jessie Ware?

  So you and your wife would have been babies in this.

• 7:48Speaker 07

  Yes, I was born in nineteen forty, she was born in forty one.

• 7:51Jessie Ware?

  So, when did you start?

• 7:54Speaker 06

  Going out boyfriend, when when she started being boyfriend and girlfriend.

• 7:57Speaker 07

  Well, when they uh after the war, they knocked this shelter down.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 07

  And they kept the the concrete slab, you know, the big slab there. Well, she used to play marbles.

• 8:07Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 8:08Speaker 07

  On the concrete slab. And I was walking with my friends, cause she she lived in a different street to to to me, just around the corner, really.

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 07

  But you'd have to go out of your way off the main drag to go into the street where she lived, where the synagogue was. So um. As I was walking through, I saw her playing marbles and she had great legs, you see. So.

• 8:27Speaker 06

  You weren't impressed by her skillful marble playing.

• 8:29Speaker 07

  No, no, she was there, you know, giving it that. And I went, who is that? You know, like when I was, I don't know, nine or ten or something like that. You know, when you first start noticing girls.

• 8:39Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 8:40Speaker 07

  In in the, not as, you know, they become different things than just a pain in the arse, they become uh.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  More interesting.

• 8:48Speaker 07

  They become, yes, you know, you look at them in a different way. So there she was playing marbles. So that's the first time I was aware of her. But I remember she used to go to the Catholic school and as Protestant kids, I did anyway, I used to look at the Catholic girls and think, wow. Exotic, because they all wore had earrings. See.

• 9:08Speaker 06

  Why?

• 9:09Speaker 07

  Well, when Catholic kids are born.

• 9:11Speaker 06

  Oh, they get their ears pierced.

• 9:12Speaker 07

  They get their ears pierced when they're young. So we thought that that was like very exotic, cause the Protestant girls didn't have that. You know, so I remember seeing the the Catholic girls around there with these earrings in, you see.

• 9:25Speaker 06

  Didn't you used to have your ear pierced?

• 9:27Speaker 07

  I did at one time, yes.

• 9:28Speaker 06

  And so you were already married when It's Not Unusual came out. Because I can remember watching you on Ready, Steady, Go.

• 9:36Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 9:36Speaker 06

  And this fantastic, you had hips like snake hips.

• 9:40Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 9:40Speaker 06

  Fabulous. You wore the, you wore the rabbit.

• 9:43Speaker 07

  Rabbit's foot.

• 9:44Speaker 06

  And you were as real sexy and they were kind of putting you forward as this sexy bloke with this fantastic baritone voice.

• 9:52Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 9:53Speaker 06

  And no one knew you were married, I don't think, at the time.

• 9:56Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 9:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, they kept it quiet.

• 9:58Speaker 07

  They kept it quiet, which they used to do then, you see. Like marriage, oh my god, you know, you can't be married.

• 10:04Jessie Ware?

  Because none of the young girls will buy the records.

• 10:07Speaker 07

  That's what they thought.

• 10:07Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 10:08Speaker 07

  So, you know, it was a front of the Daily Mirror, I I remember seeing it. After I had It's Not Unusual, number one, it went to very quickly. Then, oh, sorry, girls, but Tom Jones is already married.

• 10:20Jessie Ware?

  And where did it go in the charts after that?

• 10:22Speaker 07

  It stayed, it was no problem.

• 10:24Speaker 06

  Jesse, it was such a good song.

• 10:25Jessie Ware?

  I know, I know.

• 10:26Speaker 07

  But I remember doing a ready, steady go. And I was talking to T-Bone Walker, who's a blues guy.

• 10:32Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 07

  And we were, and the girls were looking through the glass, you know, the studio. Oh, Tom, you know, you know, you're married, oh my god. You know, they they were all like, oh. You know, but the general public, thank god, it didn't didn't affect it. But the but the young girls were a bit upset.

• 10:51Jessie Ware?

  I want to know about this sixteen year old wedding. Like, did you get a say on the choice of meal that you had?

• 10:58Speaker 07

  Uh, no, because you see, the what what happened, the honest truth is, my wife and myself really started going out properly in, um, uh, what I mean, I left school at fifteen, which was fifty, nineteen fifty five. She was still in school, because she was seven months younger than me. So I finished, I started working in a glove factory. She was still in school. So after I would finish work, I would go and, you know, she would just come out of school. And we started going around the hills of South Wales. You see, and one thing led to another, of course, started with Kiss Chase. Before I had TB, I had TB from the time I was twelve till I was fourteen.

• 11:43Jessie Ware?

  Shit, two years.

• 11:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, two years in bed, in in the house.

• 11:47Jessie Ware?

  And your lungs held out.

• 11:49Speaker 07

  Yeah. Well, see, it was a blessing in disguise because they said, whatever you do, you can't go down the coal mine. My father was a coal miner, you see, so I knocked that out. So it was a blessing in disguise because it stopped me. I would have become a coal miner. But that stopped me. So for two years, yeah, from fifty two to fifty four. Uh I was a bedroom and I could see my wife, you know, outside with, you know, going up the hills with with kids, you know, playing because all the kids are all around. And I'm like, oh, my god. And I remember feeling an ache in my chest. You know, they say about heartache. Well, I felt heartache.

• 12:27Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 12:27Speaker 07

  Honestly, when I was twelve, to and then when I was thirteen, of course, uh like that, but all through, especially from thirteen to fourteen, when I when I could uh get out of the house. You know, I I was then moving around a bit and I could see her through the window going up the side of the thing, you know, but I a friend of mine, you see, used to keep a check on her because he knew I liked her. So I said, keep an eye on Linda and make sure that she's right, okay.

• 12:53Jessie Ware?

  And so so when you had your wedding, what did you eat?

• 12:56Speaker 07

  Wait a minute.

• 12:57Jessie Ware?

  Okay, sorry, go on, carry on. Kiss chase, come on, we were at kiss chase.

• 13:00Speaker 07

  This is this is about food, I forgot.

• 13:04Jessie Ware?

  And kiss chase, we like a little kiss chase.

• 13:06Speaker 07

  Okay, it was kiss chase and she said she realized because when I kissed her when we were kids, it was something different there. So when we got married, we had to get have it done quickly because she was pregnant and by the time you know, when the shit hit the fan, pardon the expression.

• 13:20Jessie Ware?

  Then, Tom.

• 13:21Speaker 07

  But.

• 13:22Jessie Ware?

  Kiss chase, you caught her.

• 13:23Speaker 07

  Yes, exactly. I caught her when under kiss chase. So anyway, we you know, we started as as young people do uh together, you know, but we fell in love, you see, we were in love. A lot of kids fall in lust, you know what I mean? Uh but we didn't, thank god, it was the real deal. And I mean, I remember when I had TB and I was like aching for this girl.

• 13:46Jessie Ware?

  Had you kissed her by that point?

• 13:47Speaker 07

  Oh, the kiss chase.

• 13:48Jessie Ware?

  Kiss chase, okay, that was like ten, okay, twelve.

• 13:51Speaker 07

  Exactly. So then I was there, but I was, you know, I knew there was something about this girl, you know, I just felt strong for for her. So I come out of bed and then um I used to go to the local shop for my mother to pick the groceries up. And she would be using the same shop. So if we were there by ourselves, we would, we would find some excuse to go and get the shopping in. By ourselves, rather than go with our mothers, which we used to do as well. So when we had got a chance to go up, I said, do you want to think down the shop, ma'am? You know, yeah, go and get me some potatoes or whatever it is. And I would be down there. And Linda, of course, nine times out of ten, she would be there. And my mother had to come around the corner and she said, come on, for God's sake, your father's waiting for his dinner.

• 14:36Speaker 07

  You know, you've got the bloody, you know, stop talking to that Linda Trenchard, her name was, Linda Trenchard, you know, come on. So, you know, you try to like, you know, try to be cool, but mom's calling me. Okay. So that was it. So then when she became pregnant, you see. She, she didn't show for a long time. So when she did, it was like, you know, she was getting close. And then they said, well, what do we do? Now there's a big kerfuffle then, you know. My grandmother came to the house and my mother, you know, all the family came around, oh, you can't, you know, you can't let this boy get married at this early age. I was there with Linda, we were in the kitchen talking, right? And all the family was there, you know, trying to work out what's gonna happen, right? And my mother, God bless her, she said, look at this.

• 15:20Speaker 07

  We're all discussing what these kids are gonna do with their lives and they are oblivious to what we are saying. And I said, what? You know, like we were like, boom, you know, like that. She said, you can see them. If this child is born out of wedlock. This is him there, yeah.

• 15:40Jessie Ware?

  Mark is here and also is your manager.

• 15:42Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 15:43Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 07

  See, so he did very well out of this.

• 15:51Speaker 07

  Married on March the second.

• 15:53Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 07

  Because it was all like January and February, it was all, oh, oh, oh. So anyway, so by the time they made up their minds. And my mother said, please, that's not getting away because you can see, I can know true love when I see it and there it is. So, um. She said, if we, if we don't let them go ahead with it now, and the child would be born out of wedlock, which was a big deal in those days. They're gonna get married anyway. Soon as they turn eighteen and we won't have a say in it, they'll get married, I know they will.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  So which family did you live with, hers or yours?

• 16:27Speaker 07

  Well, we didn't live together at the beginning, it's a good question, because her father had tuberculosis. But he was in hospital with it, so they didn't really want me to go, you know, close to her house. Because of, uh, he would be coming home in the weekends and things like that. And I was susceptible because I'd already had TB, so that was a bit of a problem there. But we got married in a registry office because religion again came into it, right? So she was brought up Catholic, you see, your father was Church of England, but her mother was Catholic. She went to a Catholic school, went to a Catholic church, and I was Protestant, right, went to a Presbyterian chapel. So we thought, and it's gotta be done fast, so we don't wanna be, you know, getting all this stuff together.

• 17:12Speaker 07

  And my sister was about to get married.

• 17:14Speaker 06

  Oh, see, oh, no, you stole her limelight.

• 17:17Speaker 07

  Well, so all this came together very quickly, we went to the registry office in Ponte Bree.

• 17:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 07

  And got it done fast, went back to our house. And I think, I don't know what it was, my mother did a, she used to do a great pie. She used to do a corned beef pie, my mother, in a big tin.

• 17:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 07

  Because, you know, during the war and after the war, everything was on ration.

• 17:37Speaker 06

  Uh huh.

• 17:37Speaker 07

  So she could make something out of nothing, you know what I mean?

• 17:40Speaker 06

  Was she a good cook?

• 17:41Speaker 07

  Oh, great cook. Oh, my grandmother, my father's mother, was a professional cook.

• 17:45Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 17:46Speaker 07

  Yeah. So anyway, so we had one of these pies. So it was corned beef, onions, my father loved onions, so gravy, you know, it was a big.

• 17:54Speaker 06

  Lovely.

• 17:55Speaker 07

  Thing, yeah, so she, she, so that's what we did.

• 17:58Speaker 06

  How many people came?

• 17:59Speaker 07

  Only, only just a close family, my sister, her husband, a TB, they were engaged at the time, and.

• 18:06Speaker 06

  You were there, Mark was there.

• 18:08Speaker 07

  Mark was, yes, so.

• 18:10Speaker 06

  But when did you start singing, like, I mean, were you singing a choir?

• 18:14Speaker 07

  When I was a child, uh, I never went in for choir singing. I didn't particularly like it, you know, I didn't, I didn't wanna be locked into anything. I always wanted to be a free spirit, even from a child.

• 18:25Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 18:26Speaker 07

  You know, I said, I'll sing what I wanna sing when I wanna sing it, not, you know, like that. So when I was in school, the first recollection that I had about soul singing, you know, gospel music.

• 18:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 07

  I sang the Lord's Prayer. You know, in religious instructions. And they said, you, you, you're sounding like a gospel singer. I said, I don't know. I go to a Presbyterian chapel. We sing hymns on a Sunday afternoon, you know, but that's, that's about as far as it goes.

• 18:58Speaker 06

  Jessie and I, I was talking about your new album, which I love.

• 19:02Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 19:02Speaker 06

  It's very bluesy.

• 19:04Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 19:05Speaker 06

  But I said to Jessie, well, I think Tom's really a blues singer. And Jessie said, no, he's a soul singer. So what are you?

• 19:12Speaker 07

  Well, that's a good point. It, with soul singing, you see, it all comes from the church.

• 19:18Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 19:18Speaker 07

  You know, Al Jolson, for instance, I was a big Al Jolson fan when I was a kid.

• 19:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 07

  And I loved what he did.

• 19:25Speaker 06

  So who, who are your real fabulous, the people you look up to, your, your idols when you were growing up, besides Al Jolson?

• 19:32Speaker 07

  Well, well, besides Al Jolson, um.

• 19:35Speaker 06

  Were they blues singers?

• 19:37Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 19:37Speaker 06

  You see, Jessie?

• 19:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 06

  You see? Oh, I'm fine!

• 19:42Speaker 07

  Well, but gospel as well, though, you see, there's gospel, blues, and then it turned into what we know as soul. But that only kicked in in the sixties, where they used soul music.

• 19:52Jessie Ware?

  Well, it's interesting because obviously I did a BBC show that you presented and sung on with Beverly Knight.

• 19:58Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 19:59Jessie Ware?

  And it was a gospel, uh, it was, it was on Christmas Day.

• 20:01Speaker 07

  In Cardiff.

• 20:02Jessie Ware?

  And in Cardiff, and we had these choirs and I fantastically lost my voice. I lost my voice the day before, which is always really great when you're doing a television special on Christmas Day with Tom Jones. Um, but, but I remember hearing you sing and it just being, and you told stories about these gospel songs that you were singing. And it was so beautiful to hear and to hear you singing with this choir was, I mean, it was gorgeous. It totally makes sense that the origins of, yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 07

  Yes, so that's what I was, uh, influenced by.

• 20:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 07

  I'm sure like Al Jolson was when he was a kid.

• 20:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 07

  He must have heard people singing that kind of music.

• 20:39Jessie Ware?

  So when, was it, it's not unusual, your first.

• 20:42Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 20:42Jessie Ware?

  So what was that thought of at the time? That was pop, was that a pop song?

• 20:47Speaker 06

  Wasn't it?

• 20:48Speaker 07

  Pop song. What, what happened was, I tried, we tried a song first of all called Chills and Fever.

• 20:54Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:54Speaker 07

  Which was like a rock.

• 20:55Jessie Ware?

  Good title.

• 20:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, rock soul type thing.

• 20:57Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 07

  And that's what Peter Sullivan, who my recorder manager was, thought that's what I would get a hit with.

• 21:03Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:03Speaker 07

  Right? And I thought so too. But I could sing almost anything, really, which is sometimes is a, is a. It's I think it's an asset, but people can't put a label on you, you see, that's the problem.

• 21:16Speaker 06

  Um.

• 21:16Speaker 07

  Uh, so we did Chills and Fever, it didn't make it. Then I did a demo for Sandy Shore, that Gordon Mills and Les Reed wrote. I did the demo on it to give to uh who who manager is. Anyway, she wanted the song for Sandy Shore. Now Sandy Shore had already had a couple of number one records.

• 21:33Speaker 06

  Um.

• 21:34Speaker 07

  So I did the demo on it, they sent it to her and that was, so she said whoever's singing it, God bless her, whoever's singing this is his song. Well, I had to fight for this song, you know, I said, excuse me, you know, after I did the demo on Denmark Street. I said, that's it. So they said, what, what do you mean, that's it? I said, that's the song we're looking for, is right there. Now, you know, I can, I can write a million of those, Gordon Mills said, he never did, but uh.

• 22:01Speaker 06

  Which song was it? Not, not, there's always.

• 22:03Speaker 07

  It's not unusual.

• 22:05Speaker 06

  Oh, that, she was gonna sing that song. Bloody.

• 22:08Jessie Ware?

  Was she pissed off that you didn't send it?

• 22:10Speaker 07

  She'd had a couple of, you know, that bum.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, there's always something there to remind me.

• 22:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, those kind of things.

• 22:18Jessie Ware?

  Was that her? Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 22:20Speaker 07

  Those things, you see.

• 22:21Speaker 06

  And you said no?

• 22:22Speaker 07

  Well, I said, I I want that song.

• 22:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 07

  So, thank God for her, she said, whoever's singing this, I can't sing that like that. So I'm glad they asked me to do the demo. If they'd had a girl to do it, she might have done it.

• 22:34Speaker 06

  So how old were you then?

• 22:36Speaker 07

  Uh, twenty four, twenty three, twenty four.

• 22:38Speaker 06

  Living in London?

• 22:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, we were living in Luton Grove. We had moved to London.

• 22:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 07

  You know, trying to, trying to crack it, waiting for the song. You know, so we tried this Chills and Fever in the summer of sixty four, didn't make it. So but at towards the end of the year, when I finally said, I want that song. So Peter Sullivan said, look, if we tried it, a milder version, didn't happen, he said, it's not happening.

• 23:02Speaker 06

  Um.

• 23:02Speaker 07

  I said, I know it can happen, you know, with the right arrangement, I don't know what it is, but I know it can. And then Les Reed, who was a ranger as well, said, what about if I put brass just to play the same bat as a bass drum is doing? So Peter Sullivan said, we'll give it a shot, let's see. Because he said it's got to kick before you even open your mouth, right? So they lift, we lifted the key, put it in C, which is high.

• 23:28Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 07

  And that's it.

• 23:30Jessie Ware?

  Was it hard for you to sing it?

• 23:32Speaker 07

  No, easy. I mean, I.

• 23:33Speaker 06

  He can sing anything, Jessie.

• 23:35Speaker 07

  No, I did the demo on it, you see, so I did the song inside out. So to me, it was, it was easy. And of course, boom, there it was.

• 23:43Jessie Ware?

  So how did Linda feel about when it went big?

• 23:48Speaker 07

  Right.

• 23:48Jessie Ware?

  Was it weird for her and you?

• 23:50Speaker 07

  Well, no, she knew I was after it.

• 23:52Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 07

  She knew, because she used to hear me sing when we were kids.

• 23:55Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 07

  And then in the pubs and clubs, you know, she'd come to these workman's clubs with me to see, she used to get more nervous than I did.

• 24:02Speaker 06

  In Wales?

• 24:02Speaker 07

  In Wales, yeah. With a band, I took a little rhythm section in there and we did these shows.

• 24:07Jessie Ware?

  Mark, can I ask you, if you don't mind, well, I'll ask your dad. What was one of your mum's, like, your favourite dishes that your mum did, or your dad did, actually? Was, was your dad a good cook? Did he cook?

• 24:20Speaker 07

  Not me, no. I couldn't boil an egg. No, I can't.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  We were, he was on a cooking show once when we were doing a promo tour in Europe.

• 24:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  He literally freaked out that he was standing by, by a kitchen sink or whatever.

• 24:31Speaker 07

  Well, see, my father was a coal miner.

• 24:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 07

  My mother was in the kitchen. She ruled the kitchen.

• 24:36Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 07

  I used to help her when I was a child, you know, peeling potatoes and doing all that stuff. And, and I would like being in the kitchen with my mother. But when I was, when I got a bit older, my father said, look, excuse me, stay out of the kitchen, all right?

• 24:51Jessie Ware?

  So it was just.

• 24:51Speaker 07

  To me.

• 24:52Jessie Ware?

  So you just never, you, you got to enjoy, but you never really learned any dishes?

• 24:55Speaker 07

  Love cooking, no. My father loved my mother's cooking. At one point, he wouldn't eat anybody else's cooking.

• 25:01Speaker 06

  So who's cooking for you now?

• 25:02Speaker 07

  Well, I got, I got a man that works for me, Ben.

• 25:05Speaker 06

  And he cooks?

• 25:06Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 25:06Speaker 06

  And he good?

• 25:07Speaker 07

  He's my, yes, he's my assistant and butler come assistant. Oh, yeah, come cook.

• 25:12Speaker 06

  Do you know, that's all I'm after in my life.

• 25:14Jessie Ware?

  You would like a butler that doesn't wear any clothes, call it.

• 25:17Speaker 06

  No, I would.

• 25:17Jessie Ware?

  Does Ben my clothes?

• 25:19Speaker 06

  No, sure.

• 25:20Speaker 07

  No, he cooks fantastic. He cooks different things. He, he was just cooking over there this afternoon now when Mark came over.

• 25:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 07

  And we tried a little bit of, you know, meatballs with, you know, sauce.

• 25:30Speaker 06

  Oh, nice.

• 25:31Speaker 07

  Just a little bit.

• 25:32Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah. So you're, you've still got an appetite for what we're giving you.

• 25:35Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 25:35Jessie Ware?

  Okay, but fine.

• 25:36Speaker 07

  And you tell me it's lamb and I'm Welsh and I'm so, hey.

• 25:39Speaker 06

  Well, that's why I did it.

• 25:40Jessie Ware?

  So mum did, I mean, yeah, mum did lamb shank, which we hear you are a fan of.

• 25:45Speaker 07

  Love it.

• 25:46Jessie Ware?

  Oh fantastic.

• 25:47Speaker 07

  Yeah, go on, Mark, sorry.

• 25:48Jessie Ware?

  So, so Mark, what did your mum used to cook that felt really memorable that you really loved?

• 25:52Speaker 01

  I can't remember, I mean, in the, in the fifties, everybody was going after things like fish fingers. Do you know what I mean? It was, it was the beginning of, really.

• 26:00Jessie Ware?

  It was, that felt really exciting.

• 26:02Speaker 06

  No, it was convenience food, frozen food.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Convenience food was starting to come, come alive. Yeah, exactly.

• 26:08Speaker 06

  It was so exciting.

• 26:10Jessie Ware?

  But, but, but was Linda, but was Linda a good cook?

• 26:13Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:14Jessie Ware?

  What did you, what did you love of hers?

• 26:17Speaker 07

  She, she, well, she could cook anything.

• 26:19Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Speaker 07

  Like, like my mother, she learned a lot from my, my mother. And she, uh, she learned, she learned to cook, so she could cook any, anything you wanted, really. She got to become a really good cook.

• 26:30Jessie Ware?

  But you lived in the States for a long time?

• 26:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:33Jessie Ware?

  Where?

• 26:33Speaker 07

  Bel Air, then Beverly Hills.

• 26:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah. Why did you come back?

• 26:38Speaker 07

  My wife died.

• 26:39Jessie Ware?

  After she died, you felt better here?

• 26:41Speaker 07

  Yes, well, Mark and my son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren are here.

• 26:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 07

  So, what was I doing over there?

• 26:48Jessie Ware?

  No, it's true.

• 26:48Speaker 07

  You know.

• 26:49Jessie Ware?

  So, thanks, Mark, but if you remember any, I love the fact that you, your, your poor mother, you went, I loved fish fingers.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  She was a very young woman, you see.

• 26:59Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Because I was, don't forget, she was still growing up when I was a baby.

• 27:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Really, so, uh, it's, we had an interesting time, the three of us, to be honest with you.

• 27:09Jessie Ware?

  It must have been quite a ride, like, being in it together and.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 27:13Jessie Ware?

  I mean, you must remember so much of your dad's career, like the star.

• 27:17Speaker 06

  Did you go to all his gigs?

• 27:20Speaker 07

  No, he was too young, he was too young in Wales, you see.

• 27:22Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 27:23Speaker 07

  But then, when I was playing the clubs and everything.

• 27:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 07

  Mark was only a kid, but then, when It's Not Unusual came out, of course, the press were, well, Mark will tell you, they were all after him in the, in the playground, you know, too.

• 27:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, no, do you remember it? Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Well, vividly, it was a shocker.

• 27:39Jessie Ware?

  Oh, that's so horrible.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Well, that's when your life changes, you remember the day, it was on St. David's Day in nineteen sixty-five, so I was eight. And all of a sudden, that's, uh, it was, you know, it was amazing, you hope for the best, but, you know, it changes your life. Um, but here we are today, look at that.

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• 30:09Speaker 06

  Do you love doing The Voice?

• 30:11Speaker 07

  I love it.

• 30:12Speaker 06

  Just kind of, what do you love about it? What is?

• 30:14Speaker 07

  Well, I'm still in the business without singing.

• 30:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 07

  Well, I sing sometimes.

• 30:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you've got an album out now, like.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  Well, yes, but you know what I mean? I'm sort of with musicians.

• 30:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 07

  You get a chance to go and, you know, have a bit of a sing as well.

• 30:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 07

  But I can, I can help young singers as much as I possibly can.

• 30:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:33Speaker 07

  You know, and to try and give them some wisdom that people gave me.

• 30:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 07

  When I was growing up, you know what I mean? You, you, you pick up information from, as you know.

• 30:42Speaker 06

  I love it when you sing.

• 30:44Speaker 07

  You know, yeah, so.

• 30:44Speaker 06

  Oh, I love it when you tell a story and you say, oh, when I was singing with Elvis.

• 30:49Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:49Speaker 06

  Or when I was singing with, you know, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:54Speaker 06

  You must. He's sung with everybody, Jess.

• 30:56Jessie Ware?

  Well, I wanna know, are there any really memorable dinners with any of those people? Frank Sinatra, Elvis, did you ever have any dinners that we must know about on Table manners?

• 31:06Speaker 07

  Uh, yes, with Elvis.

• 31:08Jessie Ware?

  Are we allowed to know?

• 31:09Speaker 07

  Elvis, no, Elvis Presley, he didn't like to go out.

• 31:12Speaker 06

  Oh, you're kidding?

• 31:13Jessie Ware?

  Just because he was too famous?

• 31:14Speaker 07

  Well, he said that, I said, but Elvis, if you're gonna have six fellas walking in front of you saying, get out the way, Elvis is coming, I said, it's not very, you've gotta dress down. You gotta, you know, you gotta put a hat on or something and.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  Oh, did he always dress up in those suits?

• 31:29Speaker 07

  But yes, but he loved.

• 31:30Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 31:31Speaker 07

  Elvis Presley loved being Elvis Presley. But he would say, oh, how do you do it, Tom? You know, how do you go? I said, because you do go unannounced.

• 31:39Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 31:39Speaker 07

  There are places, you've gotta make sure where you're going, you can't go wandering about, of course, but it can be done. So he would have dinner in his suite and we would sometimes eat up there. But he loved junk food, you see.

• 31:53Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 31:54Speaker 07

  He used to keep a pizza under his bed.

• 31:55Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my God!

• 31:57Speaker 06

  What?

• 31:57Speaker 07

  Just in case he had munchies in the middle of the night.

• 31:59Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my God! That's a great, I, I mean, he's my kinda guy, I knew I liked Elvis.

• 32:04Speaker 06

  Run to the bed.

• 32:06Speaker 07

  So that would be.

• 32:06Speaker 06

  Paul Pete's is great.

• 32:07Speaker 07

  But but I was in Hawaii with him when when the I was in Hawaii.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  And he had pineapple on his pizza.

• 32:11Speaker 07

  Exactly, in nineteen sixty nine and we went, we I went to his house.

• 32:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 07

  To hang out with him, uh, cause he was staying in Hawaii and I was doing some shows there.

• 32:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 07

  In sixty nine when I had my TV show. So, um, I went out to his house in the afternoon and we had hamburgers.

• 32:29Speaker 06

  Well, that was like the big thing that he loved, right?

• 32:31Speaker 07

  Yes. So that was it, you know, I remember having lunch there, uh, hamburgers and salads and stuff like that.

• 32:37Speaker 06

  Was he handsome?

• 32:39Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:40Speaker 07

  Striking.

• 32:41Speaker 06

  Striking.

• 32:42Speaker 07

  I think that that's, I mean, he did sound different as well, mind you. Uh, but that became, it was like almost an accident, you know, because he liked blues, rhythm and blues. Gospel music especially. Uh, but they wanted him to, you know, what what we're gonna do with Elvis, they didn't know because he loved a lot of things. You know, he just.

• 32:59Speaker 06

  Had a gorgeous voice.

• 33:00Speaker 07

  Yes, so we happened to trip all the way, you know, we're doing the first one, that's all right, mama, you know, it was like that. So, um, but he had a different sound.

• 33:07Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 33:08Speaker 07

  But it was his look, you see.

• 33:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 07

  It was his look, he looked better than, you think of the most handsome fella you've ever met.

• 33:16Speaker 06

  So beautiful, I see, you can't imagine.

• 33:18Speaker 07

  And and and then he walks in, you know what I mean? In his in his day, when he when he before he put on that weight, which was a shame.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 33:26Speaker 07

  That they've got footage of him like that because he wasn't, I knew him when he was, you know, young and and like that.

• 33:31Speaker 06

  But he didn't wear the best outfits then, did he?

• 33:33Speaker 07

  Well, he loved, you know, he got into that, you see, that Vegas thing.

• 33:36Speaker 06

  Vegas thing with the collar up and the.

• 33:38Speaker 07

  But he loved it.

• 33:39Speaker 06

  Shoulders.

• 33:40Speaker 07

  I mean, he got married in Las Vegas, you know, before before he started working there. So, you know, he did love Vegas.

• 33:46Speaker 06

  Did you have a residency in Vegas?

• 33:48Speaker 07

  No, I used to go, well, sort of, I would play there when when Elvis was was there at the same time. And Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis, you know, the Rat Pack and all that in the sixties, late sixties, early seventies. Uh, I would do a month straight, one month per year, two shows a night for a month straight.

• 34:07Jessie Ware?

  Must have been.

• 34:07Speaker 07

  Unbelievable.

• 34:08Jessie Ware?

  Exhausted.

• 34:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, I got nodules on my vocal cords because of it. So anyway, that was it and we were we were all there together. So as far as food was concerned, um, I had to eat in, I tell you what I used to have.

• 34:21Jessie Ware?

  What, come on.

• 34:21Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 34:23Jessie Ware?

  I'm gonna send you. Jewish penicillin. I'm making some.

• 34:26Speaker 07

  Jewish penicillin.

• 34:27Jessie Ware?

  Tom, I'm making some this weekend because it's Passover and I'll send some to you. Mum, I'm actually really hungry now. Can we get the old lamb shank? Do you want me to?

• 34:35Speaker 07

  I was looking forward to, I was looking forward to a chicken in a pot or a.

• 34:39Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 34:41Speaker 07

  I thought I'd grab a Jewish meal here tonight. No, I love lamb shanks.

• 34:45Jessie Ware?

  I, oh, tell me about Frank Sinatra.

• 34:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:48Jessie Ware?

  Nice guy.

• 34:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 34:50Jessie Ware?

  What did he drink?

• 34:51Speaker 07

  He drank bourbon and coke.

• 34:54Jessie Ware?

  And did you join him drinking that?

• 34:55Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. One night, I'm walking through the casino in Caesar's Palace to go and see Sammy Davis.

• 35:01Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 07

  Right? I was following him in.

• 35:04Jessie Ware?

  Also sang really well.

• 35:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, oh, great singer.

• 35:07Jessie Ware?

  I mean, actually amazing.

• 35:08Speaker 07

  A nice Jewish boy, you see.

• 35:09Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 35:10Speaker 07

  So, so he said, so I was gonna go and see him. I was following him in. I was gonna go into Caesar's Palace. After, after him. So I go in a little bit early to see whoever was on.

• 35:22Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 07

  So I was going to, and I knew Sammy Davis, you know, from sixty five. And so I went in there. This is about nineteen seventy, seventy one, somewhere around there. And so I'm walking through the casino, past this Galleria Bar, which was a big bar in Caesar's Palace.

• 35:38Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:39Speaker 07

  On my way to see Sammy Davis. And I hear Thomas. And I said, oh, that's Frank. So I turn and he's there at the end of the bar, roped off, you know, nobody else can go in there.

• 35:50Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 35:52Speaker 07

  And so he says, Thomas, come here. And he tapped the stool by the side of him. So I said, well, look, I'm going to see Sammy Davis. He's gonna be going on anyway. He go wait. He said, I said, well, I wouldn't want to be the one to hold the show up. No, no, he said, just a quick drink, you know, you won't be late. So I sat with him and I had a, he was drinking, I said, what are you drinking? He said, uh, bourbon and coke. He said, that's what I like. Okay, great. So he had that, I can't remember what I had. And so we were sitting there and a young lady came past and said, oh my god, Frank Sinatra and Tom Jones together. Oh my god, like this, right? Could I have a picture? She came up with a little camera to take a picture of the both of us.

• 36:36Speaker 07

  And he said, Frank Sinatra, said, if you want a picture, it's gonna be a good one. So he calls the camera girl over that's working there in the thing. And he said, this young lady would like a picture of Tom and myself, so let's have it done properly. Not with that little camera that you have, sweetheart, he said. And, and that was it. And I thank god that happened, cause I have the picture now.

• 36:57Speaker 06

  Oh, that's so lovely.

• 36:59Speaker 07

  You know, a proper picture of the two of us at the bar. It would have been, you know, I wouldn't have had it otherwise. So, so that, yeah, that was it. So he was.

• 37:06Speaker 06

  Which music did you enjoy listening to? Did you like Frank Sinatra?

• 37:10Speaker 07

  Not so much as I liked Elvis Presley. But I got, I learned to appreciate him more when I got older.

• 37:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, me too.

• 37:18Jessie Ware?

  His timing.

• 37:19Speaker 07

  See, I was, I was.

• 37:20Speaker 06

  Phrasing as well, yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 07

  Exactly. But I was, I was, rock and roll began, I was fifteen years old.

• 37:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 07

  You know what I mean? It hit like a hammer, you know? So anything that wasn't rock and roll to me in, when I was a teenager, was nothing.

• 37:34Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 07

  You know. So then you get older, and that's why we call this album Surrounded by Time. Because it does make a difference, you see? When you get older, you look at life in a different way, all the different parts of your life. So when I got into, um, yeah, when I got into my twenties, thirties, I was then starting to realise what, how good Frank Sinatra did sing. You know, you've got to listen to him to know how really well he sang. And so I got to appreciate that, you know, with the thing. But I went, this is ironic. I went to Elvis, right? And I'd recorded an album of standards, right?

• 38:14Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 07

  So he said, I got your latest album, Tom, right? Okay.

• 38:19Speaker 06

  I love Elvis.

• 38:21Speaker 07

  All my life and I and he said, but let me tell you something, he said, if you don't mind. I said, no, I don't mind. He said, we leave songs like that to Frank. You know what I mean?

• 38:30Jessie Ware?

  We leave.

• 38:31Speaker 07

  We. He said, we don't do those songs.

• 38:34Jessie Ware?

  I kind of love that, that he said we. Did you feel like, was that like the greatest song?

• 38:38Speaker 07

  Straight away. So I thought, wow, you know, this is it. Then I see Frank, you know, another night, like that night when we were having a drink.

• 38:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my God.

• 38:44Speaker 07

  And he said, Tom, you can forget that rock and roll stuff, you know, you need, you could, you could do, you could do great jazz, you know, records.

• 38:51Jessie Ware?

  They all wanted you in their gang.

• 38:53Speaker 07

  Well, so I thought, what a situation to be in. Elvis Presley telling me to do more rock, rock type numbers. Or big ballads as well, but not standards, you know, not, um, you know, not what Frank Sinatra would be doing. Leave that to Frank Sinatra, he said. I said, well, I like doing, doing them all.

• 39:11Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 07

  And I thought I'm getting, Elvis is trying to pull me one way, Frank Sinatra is trying to pull me the other way. What a position to be in.

• 39:17Jessie Ware?

  The dickman.

• 39:18Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 39:19Jessie Ware?

  I do, I wonder whether, cause it seems like you were so loved by everybody, not only fans, but you know.

• 39:25Speaker 07

  In the business.

• 39:26Jessie Ware?

  In the biz.

• 39:26Speaker 07

  Yes, I was lucky.

• 39:27Jessie Ware?

  You were.

• 39:28Speaker 06

  Because he's nice.

• 39:29Jessie Ware?

  No, I get this, but I, I, maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but for me, I, I've been with my husband since I was eighteen.

• 39:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 39:38Jessie Ware?

  And there's something that's quite grounding about having that. And I wonder whether there was something about you that you, you were, yes, you were living in Beverly Hills, Bel Air, you were hanging out with Elvis.

• 39:48Speaker 06

  He still had Linda there, yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 39:51Jessie Ware?

  And there was something quite in ground, quite grounding about that. You were huge, famous, but.

• 39:55Speaker 07

  Well, she was, you know, when we would go to see Elvis Presley.

• 39:58Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 07

  You know, Linda was with me nine times out of ten.

• 40:00Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 40:01Speaker 07

  And he said to me, you're lucky, Tom, to have Linda, because he said, I fell in love when I was young. And I was on the road a lot, so she, I didn't, you know, we never went any further than that. But he still thought of that girl. He said, that's the girl I wanted.

• 40:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 07

  And I, I couldn't get her because she went off with somebody else, cause I was too busy doing my thing. But you got married before fame happened, right? Which is true.

• 40:28Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 40:29Speaker 07

  So then you realize that. My manage was solid, you see.

• 40:32Speaker 06

  Um.

• 40:32Speaker 07

  Before, it's not unusual. And that, I think, kept me going. You know, while I not think, I know. Because sometimes I'd get a bit large. You know what I mean? There was some Americans came over to the house we used to have on St George's Hill, right?

• 40:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:48Speaker 07

  So I had a snooker room up on the top floor.

• 40:50Speaker 06

  Uh huh.

• 40:51Speaker 07

  And I'm playing snooker with this fellow from New York. Uh, Burke Zanft, who's a good Jewish man.

• 40:56Speaker 06

  Oh my god.

• 40:57Speaker 07

  So he was up there.

• 40:58Speaker 06

  He's he's been doing parlor.

• 41:01Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 41:01Jessie Ware?

  Do you want to come to my Met Mitzvah? We'll get on to that in a minute. But yes, carry on.

• 41:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, so Burke Zanft was over there. He's a plastics manufacturer.

• 41:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  I got to know, he used to come to the Copa to see me sing there. So anyway.

• 41:12Jessie Ware?

  The Copa Cabana?

• 41:13Speaker 07

  Copa Cabana, yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Oh my, I didn't even realise there's a real place.

• 41:17Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 06

  I thought it was just a song.

• 41:19Speaker 07

  No, no.

• 41:20Jessie Ware?

  Anyway, this is, wow.

• 41:22Speaker 07

  Which was owned by Jules Pudel, who was again Jewish.

• 41:25Speaker 06

  Okay. Yeah, we've got it wrapped up.

• 41:29Jessie Ware?

  Okay. Quite amazing, like, Tom speaks like he's a Jew, because we always talk about who's Jewish. The Jews just talk about. But I feel like you've got it.

• 41:37Speaker 06

  You're claiming them.

• 41:38Jessie Ware?

  Me, the the.

• 41:39Speaker 07

  That's why Jewish people go short next, you know.

• 41:44Jessie Ware?

  That's amazing.

• 41:44Speaker 07

  Exactly, so.

• 41:45Jessie Ware?

  So come on, the snooker, on the, on the penthouse snooker.

• 41:48Speaker 07

  So we were up, you know, in the house, St George's Hill, I'm playing snooker with.

• 41:51Speaker 06

  In Waybridge?

• 41:52Speaker 07

  In Waybridge.

• 41:53Speaker 06

  Uh, St George's Hill is a posh place in Waybridge.

• 41:57Speaker 07

  Before we moved to the States.

• 41:58Speaker 06

  Richard lived.

• 41:59Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay.

• 41:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, before we, and John Lennon and Ray Go Star. So, we're, we're playing snooker up in the top room, and I supposedly got a bit large. This was in the early seventies.

• 42:09Jessie Ware?

  What's, what's large to Tom Jones, though? I need to know this.

• 42:12Speaker 07

  Well, I'm drinking a glass of Dom Perignon champagne, and I'm smoking a big Cuban cigar. And I'm sort of saying, well, you know, Burke, when we were in the thing, and then, and then, and then, going on like this. I was getting a bit, you know. Out of my pram, as we say. And, and Linda said, just a minute. You know, I mean, she's sitting there, you know, with some other people. And she said, just, just, just a minute. She said, you don't really think you're Tom Jones, do you? And I said, well, yeah, I am Tom. No, she said, I married Tommy Woodward. Soon as you start believing that you're Tom Jones, forget it.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  Oh, is your name not Jones?

• 42:50Speaker 07

  Thomas Jones Woodward.

• 42:52Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 42:53Speaker 07

  We never knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we just chopped the woodward off. Excuse me, so she would do that to me, you see. So I could not, and I loved that. Because I realised, this girl, I can't bullshit this girl. You know what I mean? And she will not take bullshit from me. I can't. There's no way around it. And all my life, when she died, I said to Mark, because he was there, you know, we were in the hospital with her and everything. And I said, and he said, you'll be all right, you'll be okay. I said, no, I said, your mother, you see, she used to keep me grounded. Now, who's gonna save me from me? You know what I mean? Because you can get carried away, you see.

• 43:34Speaker 07

  Like I started drinking a lot after she died because I thought, oh, the only way I'm gonna get through this, you know, is be large. It doesn't work. You can't do that. So you've got to be real.

• 43:44Jessie Ware?

  So you needed, you needed to come back to the UK to be with Mark.

• 43:49Speaker 07

  Exactly, so thank God Mark, you know, keeps me grounded, and he does. He tries.

• 43:54Jessie Ware?

  Trying.

• 43:55Speaker 07

  No, but honestly, because I, you know, I say, oh, so he says, just a minute. You know, it's like his mother speaking to me, you know what I mean? Just a minute, you know what I mean?

• 44:05Speaker 06

  Shall I just serve everyone up?

• 44:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, sure.

• 44:07Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 44:08Speaker 06

  Do you want a piece of everything?

• 44:09Speaker 07

  Yes, please.

• 44:12Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 44:15Speaker 07

  Just like mum used to make.

• 44:17Jessie Ware?

  So how old are your grandchildren, Tom?

• 44:19Speaker 07

  My grandson is thirty-seven.

• 44:22Speaker 06

  You're kidding?

• 44:23Speaker 07

  And my granddaughter is thirty-three.

• 44:25Jessie Ware?

  Mmm, good, good voices.

• 44:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:28Jessie Ware?

  Yeah?

• 44:29Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:30Jessie Ware?

  Would you say, get into the industry, or would you say, just stick there?

• 44:34Speaker 07

  If they wanted to.

• 44:35Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 07

  Because I said to my grandson, he could be, and he's a good-looking fella, plays guitar, sings. Loves music, knows a lot about it, you know, he likes what he likes and he'd like that. So I said, when you give it a shot, I mean, I'll help you as much as I can. If you want to, he said, I don't think I got the nerve for it. I love the saying around the house and everything. But, he said, I don't think I'm cut out for it. I said, well, it's a lot easier than you would think. Once you make that first step, as you know, you know, at the beginning, if you look at it from the outside, you think, how do those people do that?

• 45:09Jessie Ware?

  So about, about your new record, I mean, what, what, did you, when you do a Michael Kiwanuka.

• 45:16Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 45:16Jessie Ware?

  Cover. I mean, were you listening to Michael or was somebody like, were your grandchildren telling you, listen, you really need to listen to this? Or do you consume a lot of new music as well?

• 45:25Speaker 07

  No, Ethan Johns.

• 45:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 07

  He produced the original record that I've that I've just done.

• 45:31Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 07

  So we were playing music by different people.

• 45:35Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 07

  And have you heard this one? And I said, no, I know who the kid is. I've seen him, you know, on the Jules Holland show and everything. But I I didn't, I hadn't really listened to him. And then he played this song and I said, wow, that's that's some song that.

• 45:48Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 07

  I wouldn't mind having a pop at that. You know, so he said, I did, I think it was the only time Ethan did a song with somebody that he'd already recorded with somebody else. So, but he he loved the song, he believed in it, and I, and I said, yeah, yeah, uh, we'll have a go at that. So, uh, we did. So right away, you see, you start thinking, I do anyway, especially now that I'm older, as time has gone on. Into the lyrics, you see. So these things, you know, I won't lie, you know, you can't, you can't be, uh, you've got to tell the truth. Things like that, you see, there's when you, when I was young, I just wanted to sing. But then when you, when you, I think, hopefully, I've gotten more selective.

• 46:31Speaker 07

  In the things that that I'm recording now. Because of my age and you think, wait a minute, I can't be trying to do something that I did. In the same way. As I did then, I can't, you know, you just can't. So you, you learn and and the knowledge that you get, hopefully. Shows in your vocal performance and the material that you pick. So it's even more important to me now than it was then.

• 46:58Jessie Ware?

  And what's happening with touring? Will you tour?

• 47:01Speaker 07

  Oh, definitely. With the new songs, I can't wait.

• 47:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, so have you got, have you got anything in the diary?

• 47:07Speaker 07

  Well, at the moment, I think it's the Isle of Wight, uh, in September. Yeah.

• 47:11Jessie Ware?

  Am- amazing.

• 47:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, in September, yes. But hopefully we'll be able to do things before then, but we've got to see how things go. You know, with the situation that we're in, so, um.

• 47:23Jessie Ware?

  But you could do like a Tom Jones special and like, you could, I mean, I'm sure you've done plenty of them, but you could probably have. You know, Saturday night television, a whole, I know it's not the same as having people in the audi-, I mean, hopefully there would be. I feel like you can do anything, really.

• 47:39Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, I'm still equipped, like I was when I had my original TV show in the late sixties, early seventies. You know, anybody that came on, I could sing with them.

• 47:48Jessie Ware?

  What fun.

• 47:49Speaker 07

  So that was, that was an asset, you see.

• 47:51Jessie Ware?

  What was your favourite, um, duet that you ever did then?

• 47:54Speaker 07

  Uh, well, there was a few of them, Aretha Franklin.

• 47:56Jessie Ware?

  Oh, come on, amazing. What did you sing together?

• 47:59Speaker 07

  We did, uh, Seesaw, we did a bunch of things, we did like a, a lot of things. But Seesaw being one of them, and, um, Jerry Lee Lewis.

• 48:09Jessie Ware?

  Oh, wow, yeah, cool.

• 48:10Speaker 07

  Yes, because I was in the fifties, you know, he was the one for me. And Little Richard, you see? So I was doing duets with these people, I'm looking across the piano at both of them, because they both play piano. And I thought, my god, I was buying your records when I was a teenager, and here I am, looking at you and singing with you, it was unbelievable. So all those people that, uh, Tony Bennett came on there, you know, and I started with him. Uh, so, yeah, Sammy Davis, you know, there's a lot of people from different genres of, of music, that I liked, and I could do it.

• 48:43Jessie Ware?

  Did you ever feel intimidated?

• 48:45Speaker 07

  No.

• 48:46Jessie Ware?

  You just felt like, you're like.

• 48:47Speaker 06

  Jesse, he's got a voice.

• 48:48Jessie Ware?

  No, I know this, but, you know, I mean.

• 48:50Speaker 07

  No, I never did.

• 48:51Jessie Ware?

  Oh, man, I mean, I, I honestly could keep on asking you questions.

• 48:56Speaker 06

  Did you meet Prince?

• 48:57Speaker 07

  Yes, yes.

• 48:58Jessie Ware?

  And, like, did you share a meal with Prince?

• 49:00Speaker 07

  No, I spent a night with, no, I'm sorry, let's rephrase that, I didn't spend the night with him, I was after we did a show in, in, uh, Germany, in Cologne, TV show, we got together afterwards. And he was very chatty, he wanted to talk to me.

• 49:14Jessie Ware?

  What did he want to talk to you about?

• 49:16Speaker 07

  All about the recordings and what was it like when you started recording, all about music, really. So, I said, what happened to you? You know, one time I tried to talk to you. You know, and, and I, he said, that was then, this is now.

• 49:28Jessie Ware?

  What era was this? Was this like nineties, Prince, or?

• 49:31Speaker 07

  No, no, no, this was, uh, um, wait a minute, let me think, because it was after two, because I had sex bum.

• 49:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Speaker 07

  He was a bit ticked off for the show that I did in Germany. He was like a Top of the Pops in German.

• 49:44Jessie Ware?

  Why was he ticked off?

• 49:45Speaker 07

  Because he was a little bit out of favour at the time. He was, you know, he had slave on his cheek and all that.

• 49:50Speaker 06

  Oh, and he was the.

• 49:51Jessie Ware?

  Oh, so he was pissed off that he hadn't.

• 49:53Speaker 07

  Exactly. So he was going through all that stuff. So he told me this afterwards. They said Prince will not be doing the TV show tonight. I said, oh, what's the matter? Is something wrong with him? We don't know. And I thought, oh, he might be ill then. You know, if you don't show up to do something, normally you're ill. So we were staying at the same hotel. So I did the show, had something to eat, went back to the hotel to go to the cigar bar that they had there. And as we were walking in, his bass player, Larry Graham, was standing there. And he said, what are you, what are you, what are you doing, Tom? I said, well, I just did the show, didn't I? I said, how is Prince? Is he?

• 50:31Jessie Ware?

  Is he all right?

• 50:32Speaker 07

  No, no, he's upstairs. He's gonna come down in a minute. I said, well, why didn't he do the show then? He said, I don't, I don't wanna get into it. Okay. I said, I'll ask him when he comes down. So he comes down, he gets out of the lift and there was nobody in the lobby. So I'm about to go into the cigar bar. He's walking towards me. So I said, how are you feeling? He said, I'm fine. I said, well, then, how come he didn't do the show? He said, because you topped the bill.

• 50:56Speaker 06

  Oh, my god, how embarrassing.

• 50:59Speaker 07

  And I said, I wasn't aware of that. It's the Top of the Pops. You know, Sex Bomb is one of the songs. Yeah, of course.

• 51:06Jessie Ware?

  And it was doing really well, obviously.

• 51:07Speaker 07

  Well, of course. You know, it's number one all over Europe. So that's what ticked him off. So he said, I, I thought, no, he, he didn't swear. He said, you know, I'm not gonna do it.

• 51:18Jessie Ware?

  I kind of love that he told you that.

• 51:20Speaker 07

  Oh, he did. Because you topped. So I said, I wasn't aware of topping a bill. So he said, anyway, he said, you're coming to the after show party? I said, well, you didn't do the show.

• 51:29Jessie Ware?

  He went to the after show.

• 51:30Speaker 07

  He said, well, I can go to the after show party, just because I didn't do the show. I said, hold up, you're going, I'm go, you know, I'm gonna just go and have a cigar in the bar there. Cause you know, you couldn't smoke. It started to close down a bit. So, but it was a cigar bar. So I said, I'm gonna have a quick cigar. And, and, you know, he said, we're gonna be at such.

• 51:48Speaker 06

  But had you recorded Kiss by?

• 51:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. I met him, uh, it was his birthday, because we had the same birthday, June 7th. A different year, of course, but it was June 7th.

• 51:58Jessie Ware?

  So if anybody is born, I'd like to know if anybody else has absolutely amazing voices that were born on June 7th, please, if anybody, yeah. So, so Tom, we ask everybody on the podcast if they were going off to a an island and they were about to have their last meal before they were going. And they just, you know, their perfect meal, and it was a starter, a main and a pudding and drink of choice. What do you think would be in that, in that meal?

• 52:32Jessie Ware?

  Starting with the starter, or you can start with the pudding, I don't know if you're a sweet tea.

• 52:35Speaker 07

  Well, I love smoked salmon.

• 52:36Speaker 06

  Oh, me too.

• 52:37Speaker 07

  So smoked salmon would be, I li- I like the grill, you know, I used to go to the Savoy Grill when I used to stay at the Savoy.

• 52:43Jessie Ware?

  I love the Savoy Grill, yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 07

  So, um, it would be smoked salmon starter, some kind of meat dish.

• 52:51Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 07

  Could be lamb shank like we're having now, something like that. I'm always chocolate for dessert, chocolate dessert, I love chocolate.

• 52:59Jessie Ware?

  Well, I'm really glad we've done a passion fruit lemon curd roulade, but you know, we've got chocolate too, probably, okay, fine. So chocolate is your thing?

• 53:08Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:09Jessie Ware?

  Do you have it every day?

• 53:10Speaker 07

  Uh, more or less.

• 53:12Jessie Ware?

  What's your fave? What's, what's the one that you go for?

• 53:14Speaker 07

  I like dark chocolate.

• 53:15Jessie Ware?

  Me too.

• 53:16Speaker 06

  Darling, your spoons are.

• 53:17Speaker 07

  Thank you, though.

• 53:18Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, mum, it's delicious. It's got a real chew about it, I like it. It's good. So, Tom, we have two more questions to ask you.

• 53:27Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 53:27Speaker 06

  I'm not gonna ask.

• 53:29Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, we are.

• 53:30Speaker 06

  Karaoke?

• 53:31Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, we are.

• 53:31Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 53:32Jessie Ware?

  Do you like karaoke?

• 53:35Speaker 07

  In what respect?

• 53:36Speaker 06

  Do you ever go to a karaoke bar or party?

• 53:38Jessie Ware?

  Have you ever done it?

• 53:39Speaker 07

  No.

• 53:40Jessie Ware?

  If you were gonna do it, well, I mean, maybe this is hard, which song, which song would be the one that you'd go and sing? I know, but like, which song would you go and sing?

• 53:49Speaker 07

  Well, see, 50s rock, I was a teenager in the 50s.

• 53:51Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:52Speaker 07

  So any real Little Richard song, Jerry Lewis, Elvis Presley, Fat Storm and Chuck Berry, they were the ones. So any one of those songs you wanna pop on, I can sing it.

• 54:03Jessie Ware?

  I have no doubt you could sing it.

• 54:05Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, I know, I would know it.

• 54:07Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 07

  You know.

• 54:08Jessie Ware?

  And then, Tom Jones, do you, Sir Tom Jones? Sorry, do you get annoyed when people don't add the, uh, sir?

• 54:15Speaker 07

  No. No.

• 54:17Jessie Ware?

  What was it like getting knighted?

• 54:19Speaker 07

  Wonderful.

• 54:20Speaker 06

  Who did it, the Queen?

• 54:21Speaker 07

  The Queen. I had the O B E from the Queen.

• 54:24Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:24Speaker 07

  And knighted by the Queen.

• 54:27Jessie Ware?

  Why, can you not some, who else does it?

• 54:29Speaker 06

  Charles sometimes does it.

• 54:30Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, the other members of the royal family, you see.

• 54:33Jessie Ware?

  Mm.

• 54:33Speaker 07

  If she can't do it, but thank God both times that I was honoured, she was there.

• 54:38Jessie Ware?

  So, Sir Tom Jones.

• 54:41Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 54:42Jessie Ware?

  Do you think you've got good table manners?

• 54:44Speaker 07

  Good table manners?

• 54:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 07

  I'm talking to you with my mouth full, Logan.

• 54:49Speaker 06

  Don't worry.

• 54:50Jessie Ware?

  I think you are the most perfect guest and I, I feel like we need to have you kind of do a residency here, just so we can hear all the other stories that we haven't even got round to.

• 55:00Speaker 07

  So I gotta try and tone it down because I get cutted away.

• 55:02Jessie Ware?

  No, you don't. This is what we live for. This is perfect. It's amazing. So Tom Jones, thank you so much for coming on Table Manners. Thank you for having dinner and thank you for telling us about your amazing stories and everyone go and listen to the new record. Thank you.

• 55:16Speaker 07

  My pleasure. Next time, chicken soup.

• 55:33Speaker 06

  Well, he was a great guest.

• 55:35Jessie Ware?

  What a guest.

• 55:36Speaker 06

  The story about Elvis. But his stories, every story was amazing and I think we could still be listening to him because he loved, his son had shut him down because his manager. His son manager. But yeah, you're right. The story about Elvis and the peats are under the bed.

• 55:55Jessie Ware?

  He really does have the most phenomenal voice still.

• 55:57Speaker 06

  Gorgeous.

• 55:58Jessie Ware?

  It's just outrageous.

• 56:00Speaker 06

  Few people of his age that can still sing as you expect them to, and he does.

• 56:05Jessie Ware?

  Thank you to Sir Tom Jones for coming on and giving us a real one.

• 56:09Speaker 06

  Galing us with stories.

• 56:10Jessie Ware?

  Absolutely.

• 56:10Speaker 06

  We, we could have him back, yes, I think, and there'll still be a few more stories.

• 56:15Jessie Ware?

  We'll see you next week for another second half.

• 56:32Speaker 06

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