Walk of life

This week on Vergecast, Nilay and Dieter are joined by news editor Jake Kastrenakes; discussing Google's Android N, Samsung's Galaxy S7, as well as science reporter/space cadet Loren Grush to talk Blue Origin and other space news. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Greetings, mobile accomplishers. Welcome to The Vergecast.

• 0:07Nilay Patel?

  Dieter's just gone home.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  Today is March 10th, 2016. My name is Neelai Patel.

• 0:11Nilay Patel?

  My name is Dieter Bohn. Let's just see how that goes for a while. Anyway, it is indeed March 10th. You're probably listening to this on March 11th. But this is The Vergecast. I am Neelai Patel, resolving any doubt you might have had in your mind. Dieter Bohn is here.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Hello, hello.

• 0:29Nilay Patel?

  Surprise, Lauren Grush is here.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  What's up?

• 0:31Nilay Patel?

  Intrepid Verge space reporter Lauren Grush.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  A space cadet.

• 0:34Nilay Patel?

  Space cadet.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  TM.

• 0:36Nilay Patel?

  That show's gonna happen. I know, they've shot an episode of a show called Space Cadets.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Yes, it's coming.

• 0:40Nilay Patel?

  Reveal. It's coming. I'm very excited about it. And then, in the hype.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  This is such a big deal.

• 0:46Nilay Patel?

  It's a real thing.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  Hello, everyone.

• 0:51Nilay Patel?

  Jake, Jake has to...

• 0:52Speaker 03

  I don't know what you're seeing.

• 0:53Nilay Patel?

  You're seeing you.

• 0:54Speaker 03

  I feel very uncomfortable. Literally, three people just turned in my direction and laughed.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  It's a good start for me.

• 1:01Nilay Patel?

  Oh, this is gonna be spectacular. I'm so excited about this.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  I'm excited. I have this plant, which makes me feel very comfortable.

• 1:06Nilay Patel?

  Well, so, just so you know, Nicola just couldn't make it today because she doesn't work for us.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  She's in Austin, also.

• 1:12Nilay Patel?

  Right, she's at South... Like, many people are at South by Southwest.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  Half our staff.

• 1:15Nilay Patel?

  Like, half the staff. I'm going on Saturday for, like, a minute to be on a panel about product reviews. The panel is called "I Give This Panel 7.5 Out of 10." If you're at... It's me, uh...

• 1:23Speaker 00

  Why isn't it a 7?

• 1:25Nilay Patel?

  I don't know.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:26Nilay Patel?

  But it's me, Jackie Chang from The Wirecutter, and Michael Klor from Wired, and we're gonna just talk about product reviews. So if you're in South by, unfortunately, it's at 9:00 a.m. in the morning on Monday. So, just come by, we're gonna talk about product reviews.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Man, I review way more stuff than you do.

• 1:40Nilay Patel?

  I know.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  You wanna switch?

• 1:42Nilay Patel?

  Do you wanna go to my panel?

• 1:43Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:44Nilay Patel?

  Yes. Alright. The mutiny has begun, everyone. Um, anyway, uh, big show, big week of news. Uh, but first I gotta say, this episode of The Vergecast is brought to you by Scissor Vodka, which is a vodka brand that I made up and will definitely will into existence. Scissor Vodka, cut through the night.

• 2:03Nilay Patel?

  You gotta do the thing. You do the fingers. Cut through the night. People keep sending me stuff. I got an animation. I got a fake TV ad.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Somebody please actually launch this vodka and then buy a sponsorship.

• 2:14Nilay Patel?

  That would be amazing.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  I mean, how much can it cost us to get like a white label thing going?

• 2:19Nilay Patel?

  It's super easy.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Super easy.

• 2:20Nilay Patel?

  Vodka is just like moonshine. Like people make it out of fucking potatoes, man.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  This is when we relaunch the Verge store?

• 2:27Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Cut through the night. Anyway, the huge week in news. We gotta start where we gotta start. Dieter's got the Galaxy S7 on the table here.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Oh, you don't want to start with the big Apple announcement? You want to start with?

• 2:40Nilay Patel?

  Oh, let's end it. It's a tease. Space. I don't want to talk about it.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Android.

• 2:44Nilay Patel?

  All right. It's the phone. There's like a bunch of Android news. Let's do some Android news.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  All right. I do not have the Edge in my hands because Dan Seifert has it. I ran upstairs to get the Galaxy S7 Edge and it was clear that he had the review with him. He's not here. But there was a Best Buy box sitting on his chair.

• 3:01Nilay Patel?

  He bought one?

• 3:01Speaker 00

  I opened that.

• 3:03Nilay Patel?

  You opened his box?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  It had the Oculus, it had the Gear VR in it instead of the phone.

• 3:08Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that sucks.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Very sad. So I have the regular S7 here. And then the Edge is the cool one.

• 3:14Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the Edge is the one that you want.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  And Dan reviewed them and...

• 3:17Nilay Patel?

  And Walt reviewed them.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  Walt reviewed them. And the story is they're amazing. Everything about them is stupendous. Except for the apps that get put on them by partnerships.

• 3:29Nilay Patel?

  Except for everything that... It's like Samsung made really good hardware.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  The touchpad is actually even okay on this. It's okay.

• 3:35Nilay Patel?

  How is it okay?

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Like, that's, it's not totally overbearing. I just, this is radio. Like, there's a camera. And people are listening to us. And I thought that just pointing the phone at Neelai would convey information to everybody.

• 3:48Nilay Patel?

  I can describe. It's a, it's a screen. It's a rectangle. There's a white part of the rectangle. There's another white part of the rectangle. And a blue part of the rectangle.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  No, the stuff at the top is like...

• 3:56Nilay Patel?

  That's what a phone looks like.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  The stuff at the top of the notification area is easier to configure.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  It's like I could see it in front of me.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  The like, the overall theme is they got rid of that like baby blue

• 4:06Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  crap that they had before. It's like just plain good.

• 4:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I want to see what Lon thinks. I'll give it to Lon.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  But this isn't actually it.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Oh, it is?

• 4:14Speaker 00

  It's a small one.

• 4:15Nilay Patel?

  There's two. There's small ones.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  There's the Galaxy S7, and then there's the Galaxy S7 Edge. The S7 Edge has a bigger screen, but unlike other giant fablet phones like this Nexus 6P, it doesn't feel as big as this giant phone because the screen curves around to the edge, so it's really narrow. And it's also way, way shorter than, say, the iPhone 6S.

• 4:37Nilay Patel?

  It's like a much smaller.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Ever 6S, anyway.

• 4:40Nilay Patel?

  It's iPhone 6S.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  6S Plus. Rather, it feels way smaller than 6S Plus.

• 4:44Nilay Patel?

  But when you curve the screen around the sides, doesn't that just distort the information that's around the side of the screen?

• 4:49Speaker 00

  How much information is on the side of the screen?

• 4:51Nilay Patel?

  I don't know, the edges of movies?

• 4:55Speaker 00

  It actually, if you're looking at it straight on, it's actually not, like, the distortion is not that bad. And like, it's pretty good at not, like, having rogue touch events happen when you're holding it.

• 5:04Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  But it's not perfect.

• 5:07Nilay Patel?

  That's my, that's Dieter's new rogue podcast. You should have a podcast called Rogue Touch Events.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:13Nilay Patel?

  And it's just you talking.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Pretty sure I'd go to jail.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Wait.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 5:21Nilay Patel?

  That moment of innocent joy.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  It's just gone.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  This feels as a longtime iPhone user.

• 5:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you've got a 6 here, right?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:31Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Or no, do I have the 6? Sorry.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Here's an iPhone. We don't know what kind.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Please don't regret hiring me.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't need to know about phones. Yeah, this seems very easy to use. More in stamp of approval.

• 5:50Nilay Patel?

  There you go. Do you like the hardware? I mean, that's the real key, right? Do you think it looks like an iPhone, or do you think it looks better than iPhone?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  I think it looks better than the iPhone.

• 5:56Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, I don't know, the aesthetic is more sleek.

• 6:01Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Double tap the home button.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  And the camera is bonkers good. It is crazy fast.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  It's giving me an option for different kinds of selfies. What?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  All that.

• 6:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the camera is amazing. We, I was just screwing with it.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Oh, I swivel it. Oh, I messed up.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  What? Is it like a pano selfie? Did you do a panoramic selfie? What a, what a, what a time to be alive that you could do a panoramic selfie.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  And my face and the whole thing.

• 6:32Nilay Patel?

  Riveting, riveting radio.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Riveting radio.

• 6:34Nilay Patel?

  Silence of the panoramic selfie.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Okay, no, right.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  I mean, people are saying it's better than the iPhone's camera.

• 6:41Nilay Patel?

  Um, I've heard a lot of people say it's better than the iPhone's camera. Uh, we did, we're gonna do, I think, some close up.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:46Nilay Patel?

  Examination of this thing. Um, but I will tell you, I was just screwing with it yesterday. It focuses so much faster than the iPhone. It is ridiculous.

• 6:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I forget the term, the fake technical term, dual pixels?

• 6:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Okay, every pixel focuses.

• 7:01Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  All of them at once.

• 7:02Nilay Patel?

  All of them are special flowers. When, when these pixels were in kindergarten, every one of them got a gold star.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 7:08Nilay Patel?

  They all won at soccer.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Camera, manufactured in Lake Wobegon.

• 7:12Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. All the pixels are above average.

• 7:15Nilay Patel?

  My god. But now we're, now we're biting like other radio shows in an effort to make our radio show pretty good. Jake, what do you think? Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  The hardware is amazing. It's like absolutely the nicest thing I've ever seen. And like, I'm gonna be super hyped right now. Apple needs to do something. Like this is.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Wow. Get in there.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Apple's had an extremely boring design for two years.

• 7:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 03

  Um, and now Samsung, better camera, better hardware. Like, those are the reasons I buy a phone.

• 7:44Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and the back of this thing looks really nice. But you're gonna put a case on it.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  No, you're not.

• 7:49Nilay Patel?

  Maybe. I mean, I will say that there's, Samsung's gotten really good at this. Like, the, the amount of restraint in this phone for a Samsung phone.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:58Nilay Patel?

  Is like amazing. But then the amount of not restraint shown by Verizon.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  And just like gluing shitty software.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, let me ask this.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Because I've played with some phones that came with Verizon bloatware on them. I just ignored it.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  This is.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Is it really that big of an issue?

• 8:13Speaker 00

  It's out of control relative to what it used to be.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Can you just ignore them, though?

• 8:15Speaker 00

  You can not ignore them. No, no, you can't ignore them. You have to disable them. If you ignore them, they start throwing up notifications at you, like advertisements.

• 8:23Nilay Patel?

  Let me put it this way. I just clicked on the Go90 app icon that I cannot delete from this phone. And the first thing it asked was for access to my contacts.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 8:31Nilay Patel?

  It's a video app. It's an app that shows you videos. And the gimmick is that when you like the video, you will turn the screen to really engage with it. Uh, which Verizon wants you to call Going90. I don't know if you're aware of. I think just dryly explaining what Go90 is really highlights the absurdity of the concept.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  I mean, I get excited by the concept of Going90.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 8:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  What was? It was like. That's actually the, the sequel to Rogue Touch Events.

• 8:55Nilay Patel?

  Go90.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  All I know is that a bunch of.

• 8:59Nilay Patel?

  It's a real, real story of a terrible night at a club.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. No, but so like the, when you first boot up for the first time and go through like the getting setup stuff on a Verizon Galaxy S7. It literally flashes a warning at you that makes you think if you're not paying attention, that if you don't sign up for Verizon's backup service, you're gonna lose all your data.

• 9:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Like, it doesn't let you know that if you don't sign up for Verizon saying, turns out Google backs up your data. And there's like a million other ways to back up all your data. It puts ads in the notification center. It's like, it's everywhere. It's, uh, I don't, I think there's like 13 total Verizon apps. Um, if you include the Amazon apps that got added on there. Amazon's crazy like Rogue Android Store is on there, too. It's bonkers. And there's also Samsung stores. That's three app stores.

• 9:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and the Samsung App Store has a default banner on the home screen. It's called like, download these Galaxy Essentials.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Well, I want to ask, because Dieter just wrote that big piece about.

• 9:58Nilay Patel?

  Let me just read you some Galaxy Essentials. You ready? CNN for Samsung. That's essential. Pair for Samsung. Get personal coaches.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Wait, which pair?

• 10:06Nilay Patel?

  No, pair. P E A R. Uh, personal coaching in real time with Olympians.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 10:11Nilay Patel?

  That's something you want. It's super essential for a phone.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  I need that in my life.

• 10:14Nilay Patel?

  Uh, Photo Bucket for Samsung. That's cool. Uh, Expedia. Super essential app to have on your phone, especially when it's branded with Samsung.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Is it for Samsung or just plain Expedia?

• 10:25Nilay Patel?

  Branded Samsung.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  They're out of the Samsung Store.

• 10:28Nilay Patel?

  S Note.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  S note.

• 10:32Nilay Patel?

  Really for an app without a pen?

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's that.

• 10:36Nilay Patel?

  I'm just, this is all just like nonsense.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  What's the alternative, though? The phone being more expensive?

• 10:41Speaker 00

  So that's a really good question, because this phone is like seven, eight hundred dollars. So how much more expensive would it have been without all this crap? Where I personally don't think it's about the price of the phone. I think that it is about getting, like, what Samsung gets out of this is Verizon's advertising money and placement in Verizon stores.

• 11:02Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, they sell more phones. They get marketing support.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:05Nilay Patel?

  So I don't think it's cost of the phone, because the phone's pretty expensive.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:08Nilay Patel?

  It's actually more expensive than iPhone.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:11Nilay Patel?

  But it's like hidden in fees. Like, you'll never know.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:15Nilay Patel?

  Because you can't even buy it unlocked.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can't buy, you can't.

• 11:18Nilay Patel?

  I'm just getting angry. I'm just like thinking about all this right now, getting angry.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Also, the, unlike the iPhone there and like the Nexus 6P, the different carrier versions aren't cross-compatible. They didn't stick all the radios in and all the antennas

• 11:30Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 11:30Speaker 00

  The phones. So like the Verizon one, if you were to, Verizon usually leaves its phones unlocked. If you were to take the Verizon one and go to AT&T, you are not guaranteed to have all like the LTE bands work.

• 11:40Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it's just like, how are you gonna have your own streaming service, then make the decision to refer to it as Milk Music and then insist that it be on my fucking phone? I gotta put this down.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  That's a Samsung app, though, not a Verizon app.

• 11:54Nilay Patel?

  But it's just like, it's just stuff.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  The Samsung app, that's fine.

• 11:58Nilay Patel?

  But.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  But I get way angrier at the Verizon stuff.

• 12:00Nilay Patel?

  But why not make the partnerships to the things people want? We preloaded Spotify for you. Here's YouTube Music, like.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:07Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. Google Play Music. I'm sure all the Vergecast fans would love it if Google Play Music was pre-installed in this thing. It probably is.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  It is, I'm sure it is.

• 12:13Nilay Patel?

  Because it's a Google. Is it, is Google Play Music in the default set?

• 12:16Speaker 00

  It's in the default set of Google Apps.

• 12:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Anyway.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Oh, wait. What's up? I don't think it is.

• 12:23Nilay Patel?

  Once again, Google Play Music, beaten down, ignored. The injustice continues.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Start a forum post.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Oh, no, here it is. It's Play Music.

• 12:33Nilay Patel?

  All right, well, the injustice does not continue. Sorry to get you all riled up, Google Play fans.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  What should we have the Verge review account be interested in listening to?

• 12:42Nilay Patel?

  Do you want to actually talk about your thing?

• 12:45Speaker 00

  What thing?

• 12:45Nilay Patel?

  ARPU thing?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Oh, the Angry God of ARPU.

• 12:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, there's a whole thing. There's a whole industry trend that's going on. And Dieter wrote a whole thing about it that's like amazing.

• 12:55Nilay Patel?

  Lauren's just gonna say the word trend. Trend. Trend watch. Alright, there's a whole thing.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, ARPU stands for average revenue per user. And for the past 10 years or so, it's been like the thing that carriers want to maximize. How much money do they make off to every single one of their customers? In the past like six to 12 months, it's like turning into like other weird acronyms that don't necessarily mean the same thing because they're trying to hide their numbers. But it looks as though for the past year or so, ARPU had been going down. And that combined with some other stuff is one of the reasons why I think this crapware problem on phones is getting worse. So let's look at Samsung specifically. They had a bad year last year.

• 13:34Nilay Patel?

  Yep.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  They definitely need to sell more phones, especially at the high end. And the only way they know how to do it, the only way anybody except for Apple knows how to do it, is to sell it through the carrier retail channels in America. That's how that works. Because nobody goes and buys their phone unlocked on Amazon and any real number.

• 13:52Nilay Patel?

  Right, because it's really hard to get it on the carrier.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not really hard, it's too hard.

• 13:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. So here's Samsung's problem. They, in order to get the push they need from Verizon and AT&T, they have to capitulate. They have to do all this stuff that increases the, you know, tiny margin on the phone that the carriers make, like tricking you into buying a subscription for an antivirus software on your Android phone, or tricking you into using Verizon Navigator instead of Google Maps, which is a thing that's installed on this phone.

• 14:26Nilay Patel?

  They still call it VZW Navigator?

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so.

• 14:28Nilay Patel?

  Do you still have to pay for it?

• 14:29Speaker 00

  I'm sure you do.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  Pay for it?

• 14:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Verizon has a subscription GPS app called VZW Navigator.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 14:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, go ahead, sign up for it. Give it your credit card.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 14:39Nilay Patel?

  Let it access your contacts.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, how much is it?

• 14:42Speaker 00

  It's, I'm gonna pay for it right now.

• 14:45Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it's just like, why? Like, why?

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, why?

• 14:49Nilay Patel?

  It's like such a good phone and I will never buy it. I refuse.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  So I should have refused.

• 14:55Nilay Patel?

  One man with a dream of justice in America. Voting with my dollars.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  You may be charged with this application. Anyway.

• 15:05Nilay Patel?

  It's just so dumb.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  What's?

• 15:08Nilay Patel?

  It's Google's phone.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  So.

• 15:10Nilay Patel?

  Google literally improves its maps by pinging the phones.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  So it's called the Angry God of ARPU, which is a thing that a guy who I think worked for Troll Tech said 10 years ago at CES. Troll Tech, by the way, became QT, which later got bought by Nokia. It's a real long story. Anyway.

• 15:25Nilay Patel?

  Yes. It all ended up in May.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  When you do this thing on this phone, you see this garbage.

• 15:31Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Who do you get mad at? Do you get mad at Samsung or do you get mad at Verizon?

• 15:36Nilay Patel?

  I get mad at the culture of this country.

• 15:42Nilay Patel?

  That allowed us to have morally imperfect phones.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 15:48Nilay Patel?

  I'm just trying a new thing out.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:49Nilay Patel?

  You know?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  I don't get really mad.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  You don't get really? Yes, because you use an iPhone. You don't have this problem.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  So Apple stood up to the thing.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  She don't even see it. Out of sight, out of mind.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Although if you are on Verizon, they are doing really dirty things to track what you do online and advertise to you.

• 16:05Nilay Patel?

  You know what I'm gonna do? When you're not looking, I'm gonna go to your phone. I'm gonna download VZ Navigator. Just like delete Google.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  I'm like trying to get home one night. Pay $5 to like navigate to your home. I'm like, ah!

• 16:21Nilay Patel?

  I'm just saying. Then you'll be mad.

• 16:22Speaker 00

  The main thing with Verizon is if Verizon says, no, I'm gonna stand up to you Verizon, you can't put your garbage on my phone. You know what Verizon's gonna say? Okay, LG will. Buy Samsung and then LG will just do it.

• 16:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  And then Samsung is screwed.

• 16:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:37Nilay Patel?

  But then why don't we all just buy LG phones without crapware? Do they sell the G?

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Don't know yet.

• 16:42Nilay Patel?

  Five?

• 16:43Speaker 00

  Yes, that's correct. G5 with Friends. They have, it comes with little accessories you can plug into the phone. They're called Friends.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  I would lose those.

• 16:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, that's the first thing I thought of too. It's like, I would love to pay for this extra like cool audio thing, but I'll just leave it at home. I don't know, man. Jake, where you at? Would you buy this phone?

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Not for however much it costs. It's like, super expensive.

• 17:04Nilay Patel?

  Thirty-three dollars a month?

• 17:06Speaker 03

  It is the phone that I want right now.

• 17:08Nilay Patel?

  Really? Not the 6P?

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Well, I have a 5X right now, so I already chose that over the 6P. Because the 6P is really, really big, but this phone is smaller than the 5X.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  And it has a bigger screen and a faster processor and a better camera.

• 17:21Nilay Patel?

  The camera's amazing. This is amazing. What have we been asking for this whole time? Android phone with a great camera. And I know, everyone's gonna tell me that the other Android phones are great cameras. But it's like, this is the best camera.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I mean, I thought the S6's camera looked like it was probably better than iPhones. And like, this one seems like it's at least as good, if not better. So, I'm sold.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  What do you think is the main reason someone buys a phone? Is that a camera?

• 17:45Nilay Patel?

  Ooh, that's a good one. People tweet at us. Tweet it @LaurenGrush. And tweet it @RightPlace.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Because I'm going to have lots of opinions on that. No, I'm curious, because, I mean, obviously, my reason is ease.

• 17:57Nilay Patel?

  Is it really ease of ease? Because these phones are just as easy to use.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  No, it's ease of, I know how to use the iPhone. I've been using it for years now. So it's like, I don't want to spend time learning and kind of changing my life to support a new type of operating system.

• 18:11Nilay Patel?

  Right. There's like, no, there's too much overhead.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  I still think the iPhone has a much shallower learning curve than Android.

• 18:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, Android, the thing's a computer. Like, in all of the best ways of that phrase, and in all of the worst ways. Like, it acts more like a computer than the iPhone. I think people are locked into ecosystems.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:32Nilay Patel?

  Right, and I think it's pretty insidious, in like, a wide variety of ways. Like, I keep thinking about the Apple car that will come out. And it's just like, do you have to have an iPhone to buy Apple's car? Like, will it work well if you don't have an iPhone? Like, that's a weird question. And it's like, Apple Music, like...

• 18:54Nilay Patel?

  It's the first thing they ever made an Android app for and you can tell like just in using it for five minutes, you can tell that it's not as good as the iOS app. It's just that, I think like people just get locked, like iMessage. I can never not have an iPhone because of iMessage.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 19:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I mean, Dieter tries to not have an iPhone all the time.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, no one talks to me.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  That green message.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  There are probably a half dozen people that I do not talk to and I'm using an Android phone and then as soon as I'm back on an iPhone and then I'm like, not gonna turn on iMessage, not gonna turn on iMessage, and then I turn on iMessage and then all of a sudden I can talk to these six people again and it's great and then I'm like, okay, I'm switching back to Android and I immediately regret turning off, turning on iMessage because not only can I not talk to those people, they think they're still talking to me and their messages just go somewhere.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 19:43Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:45Nilay Patel?

  Now, it's like, well, that's what I mean by insidious, like if you quit having iMessage, Apple will just lie to your family on your behalf, like that message was delivered. Straight up, I mean, people like, have you switched from iMessage?

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:00Nilay Patel?

  I feel like we've been doing it entirely.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  There's literally a website.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't work.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  It worked for me. I think the problem, you use like 12 phones a day. I think that's the problem.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  There was, there was a time when I was flashing Android N on phones and tablets that I had no fewer than, I think, 10 screens on my desk, most of which were on.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you switch once a year.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  That gives me anxiety.

• 20:26Nilay Patel?

  Let's just transition right into Android N.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Android N. So, I think the phrase is, holy shit.

• 20:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  Google's like, oh, by the way, we're, we're releasing, oh my God, someone just tweeted a picture of a rogue touch events at me.

• 20:39Nilay Patel?

  It's a good thing it's a radio show.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. They released a developer preview of Android N, usually they, last year they did it at I/O. Now they're doing it like two months before I/O and they say it's like people can test it out and so hopefully maybe Samsung will put it on the Galaxy, you know. A little bit on time instead of not at all on time.

• 21:04Nilay Patel?

  They should make a phone called the Galaxy on Time.

• 21:06Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 21:07Nilay Patel?

  That's their next watch, the Galaxy on Time.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  Hang on.

• 21:10Nilay Patel?

  Jake.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  I don't know when I'm supposed to respond.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  How does the hype desk work?

• 21:15Nilay Patel?

  Okay, let's just go over this again. We've done it so many times. The hype desk is just a construct in your mind. You are, for the listener, you are at this table.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  There is no such thing as a Galaxy on Time. I am shocked.

• 21:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, there should, there should be one.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  There should have been one by now.

• 21:32Nilay Patel?

  And it's actually a large phone that you can wear as a watch.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:35Nilay Patel?

  Right, it's like a-

• 21:35Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure Samsung has that already.

• 21:38Nilay Patel?

  I have a first gen Galaxy Gear on my desk that I keep just desperately wanting to use. And I keep charging it and turning it on and being like, this is garbage. It's just, it's such a first generation product.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  What compels you to keep that in your life?

• 21:53Nilay Patel?

  I don't know, man. I actually got like half a fucking pink Vio in my desk right now. Like, it's, they just come to me. I love these things. I like, I love gadgets. I love the idea that like, someone made them.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, the pink Vio is beautiful.

• 22:05Nilay Patel?

  It's a beautiful thing.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  The original gear is-

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Not.

• 22:08Nilay Patel?

  The original gear is like an audacious product, right? When someone at Samsung, just think about us, right? Like, today Lauren published a piece and we like argued about the headline on Slack for like five minutes. And then we like made this, but like, that was a conversation that we had. And then like Lauren was like, I'm gonna run this piece. And then TC in the room was like, I don't know about the headline. Then we had like another conversation and then she published it and I was like, we should have another headline. Like, right, like we made this like series of decisions. And there were like three stakeholders and it's still, at the end, we'd like made the wrong decision and we changed it, right? Um, I don't know if we made the wrong, you know what I mean? But like we changed, Samsung, somewhere in a room at Samsung, someone was like, I think the watch band should have a camera in it. And then that decision had to like get executed.

• 22:52Nilay Patel?

  Like, they were like, okay, you, Steve, go source the camera module. You know, Tanya, you've been doing great lately, design the band to stick the camera module in. Uh, I don't know, Susan, these are just extremely white names.

• 23:09Nilay Patel?

  You figure out the software for it like they made all of those decisions. And then those people presumably all had teams that had like execute those decisions. And now I have this piece of garbage in my hand and it represents all of that work. Then my heart fills with joy.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I sort of just feel like.

• 23:27Nilay Patel?

  No, no one else feels that.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  The fact that like multiple people are like, uh, yeah.

• 23:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, stick a camera in there. Why the hell not?

• 23:35Speaker 03

  You don't think there's just like a couple of really insane people atop of Samsung?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe Susan was like begrudgingly putting the camera in the entire time.

• 23:44Nilay Patel?

  She's like, Steve's on LSD again.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Right. No, Susan's like, oh God, we're pulling another Samsung.

• 23:52Nilay Patel?

  Like internally?

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Like, let's not blame Susan here. She clearly tried.

• 23:56Nilay Patel?

  It's Tanya who fucked it up. Duh. Steve, Steve is just the camera guy. He doesn't know.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  And in all fairness, their engineering went just fine. It was the overall execution that was flawed.

• 24:09Nilay Patel?

  No, I just think like that's, I think it's really like the Sony is the same thing. It's like they, it has a, it has like a fake mouse on the side of the screen.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Well, it's also a netbook. I think that was the issue.

• 24:20Nilay Patel?

  I know. No, I think it was, I think the Sony VIP was explicitly not a netbook. It was meant to be higher end than a netbook. It was meant to be a totally different camera.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  My apologies to the Sony engineers.

• 24:32Nilay Patel?

  Oh God, don't make me make up fake names to Sony people. Eric, uh, just keep going. Stephanie.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Glenn.

• 24:41Nilay Patel?

  Harold. Glenn and Stephanie.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:44Nilay Patel?

  Again, we just got a just extremely boring names for these people. Anyway, I mean, Stephanie just clearly visionary with the mouse thing. But I think Glenn blew the execution. What?

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Nothing.

• 24:55Nilay Patel?

  What do you want from me?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I can't wait for the fanfiction of our like made up engineers.

• 25:02Nilay Patel?

  Tanya and Stephanie are at a bar and she's like, I gotta get out of Samsung.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  She's really been trying to hot chip for a while.

• 25:10Nilay Patel?

  So terrible. I just don't, am I the only person who like looks at everything and tries to imagine the chain of decisions that led to that moment?

• 25:20Speaker 00

  This is why when I watch a bad movie, I sit through the credits. When you watch a terrible movie and then you sit through the credits and there's like a thousand names of people, all of whom like contributed to making this movie and most of whom like said, yes, this is good enough.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  You're just like, you're individually going, bless you, bless you, bless you.

• 25:39Nilay Patel?

  What if Samsung smartwatches had credits? You're like, oh, you came with a book? And it was like, watch, man, camera, Glenn.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  The original Mac, everybody signed the case on the inside of it.

• 25:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but, yeah, yeah, there you go.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Why are we not forced to watch like five minutes of credits every time our phone shuts down?

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 25:58Nilay Patel?

  You send the notification, AT&T, you're like, I'm buying a new phone. It's like, but first. It starts playing the music. Did you see the post on the site that Jameson did today about every movie being better with a Dire Straits song in it?

• 26:10Speaker 00

  It's true.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  I did not.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  I did not either.

• 26:13Nilay Patel?

  What song is it?

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Walk of Life.

• 26:14Nilay Patel?

  Walk of Life.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  You do the walk.

• 26:16Nilay Patel?

  Hold on, I'm gonna play Walk of Life. Excuse me, excuse me, everyone. Excuse me.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  Okay, well, well, well, Neela figures out how to use Spotify. I'm gonna tell you about Android N.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yes, please.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Uh, it's a super, super, super, super, super early beta.

• 26:29Nilay Patel?

  No, keep going, this is gonna be great.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  And it's surprisingly good. It, uh, the animations are super fast. It has split screen multitasking, which actually works. This isn't, this is just too much.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Please keep going.

• 26:42Nilay Patel?

  This is what we're doing.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  I can't focus.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  I care more about phones now.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  It has a better notification chain. I can't, I can't.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Thank you all for tuning in this week.

• 27:00Nilay Patel?

  Just imagine if every time, hold on, Andrew's gonna kill me. Just imagine if every time you like went on the carrier website and like pre-ordered your phone, your old phone started playing Walk of Life and just like running credits.

• 27:15Nilay Patel?

  Like iPhone brought to you by, directed by Tim Cook. And it's like, bye. Bye, like winked out of life.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  I would absolutely be into that. I feel like we're missing out and it's unfair to Susan or Stephanie or Tanya. I don't remember. This is the problem. I would know their names.

• 27:34Nilay Patel?

  You would.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  If you listen to Rogue Touch Events, the new podcast about mythical engineers that create products at Samsung and Sony, you would know all about their names and how they've been shipped.

• 27:43Nilay Patel?

  That's what it is. Rogue Touch Events is like Silicon Valley for inside. I shouldn't give this idea away. Stop listening to this. Turn to a different podcast. We have like 10 of them now. Please, God, listen to What's Tech with Chris Plant while I finish this idea.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Verge SP.

• 28:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Verge SP is great.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  I'm plugging science here today.

• 28:04Nilay Patel?

  Okay, have you switched podcasts, remaining listeners? Okay. You're in this cabal with me.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. If you're listening to this, you have already accepted the ULA that you are not allowed to use this idea.

• 28:16Nilay Patel?

  I've updated your iTunes agreement and you cannot steal this idea.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  By continuing to listen to this podcast, you agree to the terms and conditions of this podcast.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Okay, but like whoever reads those.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  Well, that you've agreed. Are you listening right now? You've already agreed.

• 28:27Nilay Patel?

  You didn't, you didn't read your employment contract, did you?

• 28:29Speaker 00

  If you haven't taken a pickaxe to your phone and smashed it, you have by default agreed to the terms.

• 28:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. That makes sense. I was a lawyer. Okay, Rogue Touch Events. It's like Silicon Valley, but instead every episode is like inside a massive phone corporation and it picks apart the decision chain behind insane decisions. Right? That's like the, that's like the little, that's the key to the format of every episode. But then they like spin out. We have like crazy adventures with people.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  You have to change the name. Like, that is not what people would expect that show to be about. It's a very serious issue. You're not going to be able to get any advertising on that either.

• 29:13Nilay Patel?

  Look, man, I don't do it for the money. I do it for the art. Tanya does it for the money.

• 29:21Nilay Patel?

  I demonized her so much.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  She really gets a bad rap.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:25Nilay Patel?

  She just, look, she sold out a long time ago and we've never, just we haven't had a conversation ever since.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  But Tanya's got like two kids to feed, so, you know, let's not judge her.

• 29:33Nilay Patel?

  So, the darkest episode of this show ever is like, finally.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  I'm really concerned about the female employees at these companies.

• 29:41Nilay Patel?

  Stephanie and Susan are fine.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Stephanie wants to leave.

• 29:50Nilay Patel?

  Oh, we gotta stop. Android end. Wait, but that's like this show. It's like the one episode. It's like halfway through the season. Tanya's been the villain the whole time, but then like Orange is the New Black style, you like follow her home. And she's got this like huge family, they're all depending on her. She's like stressed out. Have you been watching the People vs. OJ?

• 30:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:08Nilay Patel?

  They're like gonna humanize Marsha Clark. It's the same thing, only it's.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Only it's a mid-level engineer at Samsung who's forced to put a camera in a watchband.

• 30:18Nilay Patel?

  Yes. Don't you wanna know who that person is?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  I do, actually. That would make me care.

• 30:24Nilay Patel?

  Finish the Android end story.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  I'm super done.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  It's, it's way better than it is right to be. You should install it, but you can install it over the air. Like you don't have to like do crazy developer things to install it. So I bet that in a couple of months, it'll be really good. If you have a Nexus phone, you'll just be able to install the beta. It'll be good enough and we won't be waiting for them to release it.

• 30:44Nilay Patel?

  The key feature is the multitasking.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Multitasking, notification shade is better. But I think that what we've seen so far is like a third of what's probably coming and we'll find out much more at Google I/O and May.

• 30:56Nilay Patel?

  Do you wanna?

• 30:56Speaker 00

  You can, you can drag and drop text between windows, but it only kinda works.

• 31:00Nilay Patel?

  It's like, it's becoming more like a computer.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:02Nilay Patel?

  They're clearly, and you've got it on tablet over there. What do you think?

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, actually, this is kind of fantastic.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  It actually makes the Pixel C not garbage.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Oh. I mean, this is like clearly how you're supposed to use the Pixel C.

• 31:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, right. It's touchscreen. Like it's more like an iPad there, yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  It seems supernatural. It's weird that this was not a thing already, which like not to criticize, because iOS just got this, but.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, and let's be clear, everyone's real mad at me. Samsung had it first.

• 31:27Nilay Patel?

  But Samsung's is like, they were a hack.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:29Nilay Patel?

  It's some real Tanya shit.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I really don't like how, you know, critical you've been of Tanya this entire time.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  I'm on team Tanya.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's really just working hard for her family.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  No, given the, given the requirements set before her by Stephanie, she did an amazing job.

• 31:50Nilay Patel?

  Oh, Stephanie's the PM?

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:51Nilay Patel?

  Okay. Alright, fine.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  I forgot the chain.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  I thought Tanya was in charge.

• 31:57Nilay Patel?

  This is a winding, twisting, it's really like who owns the project, right? Like ultimately it comes down to, do you have resources and ownership and that's how you are successful?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  And the problem with Samsung is there are so many CEOs, you can't have a single auteur over the product.

• 32:11Nilay Patel?

  Right. Yeah, when you, when you turn off a Samsung phone, it plays Walk of Life like five different times.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  It plays a really crappy cover from that one guy on YouTube with the ukulele.

• 32:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, they're all fighting, it's like the same credits. They can't, they'll never be in the director's guild because everything is co-directed.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:28Nilay Patel?

  Sorry, it's a really nerdy film joke. Continue talking about the tablet that you're holding.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have two windows open.

• 32:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  It's cool.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  You can resize it, right?

• 32:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, so you can resize it. I don't know, can you do, can you do any size? It snaps into, I think, third and then half.

• 32:47Nilay Patel?

  So what you're not seeing, if you're listening to this, what you're not seeing, and I think this is true, that is so much better than the resizing on the iPhone. It's like faster, or the iPad.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:56Nilay Patel?

  It's like way faster and more like...

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's also really easy to bring up new apps. You just hit the button and you can like see all of the cars.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  And if you hold your finger down on the multitasking, it, it goes away.

• 33:07Nilay Patel?

  I mean, that...

• 33:07Speaker 00

  And you hold the finger down again, it goes back.

• 33:09Nilay Patel?

  I'll say this, it's, it's like, it's...

• 33:11Speaker 03

  That's sick.

• 33:11Nilay Patel?

  It's iteration, right? Like, it is fundamentally the same concept as what's happening on iOS.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:16Nilay Patel?

  And then Google out to like, play with an iPad for six months and they put out a version that like, it, like, it's not some like radical rethink.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. Except it works on the Nexus 6P. You can do it on the phone.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Is anybody can do this on a phone though?

• 33:28Nilay Patel?

  Has anybody ever made real use of the iPhone 6S plus, 6 plus screen size, split screen thing? Is there a single app that makes use of that?

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Not a single app.

• 33:39Nilay Patel?

  Is there a single app for 3D Touch that's good?

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Uh, no, cursor placement on the keyboard. People love that.

• 33:46Nilay Patel?

  That's just a thing.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Um, I really like the...

• 33:48Nilay Patel?

  When I tweet it, everybody tells me on the cursor too.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Fake 3D Touch on Instagram's Android app.

• 33:56Nilay Patel?

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• 34:39Nilay Patel?

  Audible.com also has the great listen guarantee, so if you decide you don't like the book you chose, presumably what all of the purchasers of Rogue Touch Events will do, you just send it back. You just push the button, you can exchange any book you're not happy with for another title anytime, and no questions asked. I don't know, is there, is there anything better than Audible?

• 34:57Speaker 00

  No.

• 34:58Nilay Patel?

  To me, Audible's like the one, right? And so just for Vergecast listeners, audible.com is offering a free 30-day trial membership. You go to audible.com/verge today, and only today, but this podcast is unstuck in time, so literally whatever day that you're listening to it, only that day can you get this deal, where you go to audible.com/verge and get a free trial.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  You should. Okay, but it's like... Use it, use it to listen to The Gollum and the Ginny by Helen Wicker.

• 35:23Nilay Patel?

  Absolutely. But only today. Whatever day it is that you're listening to this. Audible.com/verge. Do you understand what I'm saying? Only today.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  I think this is an amazing way for Audible to really teach us about how time works.

• 35:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah, right? Like, what is time?

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Ooh, actually Einstein's Dreams, good, good book about time. You could probably listen to it on Audible.

• 35:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah. What's that Stephen Hawking book?

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Brief History of Time.

• 35:49Nilay Patel?

  Brief History of Time.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:51Nilay Patel?

  You're great. Look, show your support for Vergecast. Get a free 30-day trial, only today. Whatever day it is that you're listening to this. Audible.com/verge.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  Expires tomorrow.

• 36:05Nilay Patel?

  All right, let's get into some stuff.

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Uh, before we get into space, what you gotta do, I'd wanna plug Sam Byford's reporting from Korea. He's at the DeepMind versus, uh, Go, the Go Championship. It's 1-2 out of 5 as of this recording, and the next match is tonight. Uh, for you, that was last night. Anyway, we've got a guy on the ground, Sam Byford, recording, doing interviews, taking photos. It's amazing stuff. Go find it on our website. I'm done. Goodbye.

• 36:35Nilay Patel?

  It is really good. And Sam is having the time of his life. He's out there, he's doing it. All right. Space. So Lauren, tell me about, well, there's a bunch of stuff that happened.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:45Nilay Patel?

  Uh, Scott Kelly, Scott Kelly came home.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:48Nilay Patel?

  He wrote an extremely snarky headline about him. "Space made Scott Kelly taller and younger, as if he already wasn't Mr. Popular."

• 36:56Speaker 02

  I'm just jealous.

• 36:57Speaker 00

  I'm going to space.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:59Nilay Patel?

  For a year.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  For a year. That's really how you can do it.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  One nanosecond younger.

• 37:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Uh, and then Jeff Bezos, Amazon founder, dilettante, general man about town, owner of The Washington Post.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  Tyrant.

• 37:11Nilay Patel?

  Piece of Business Insider.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Humorous man.

• 37:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, he loves to laugh, but also loves to make you work until you die.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  And laugh while you do it. He loves to put up giant TVs showing people stealing things out of warehouses and then getting taken down by, you know, security, and then they were fired.

• 37:26Nilay Patel?

  What you want in your workplace is, uh, endless video loops of SWAT raids with the word thief. Flash, this is true, by the way. This is some, like, sci-fi crazy shit. In Amazon's warehouses, they play video loops of people getting busted for stealing shit, and they flash the word prisoner. It's crazy.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  That can't be real.

• 37:45Nilay Patel?

  Real.

• 37:48Nilay Patel?

  And then Jeff Bezos takes all those prisoners and puts them on a rocket.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  And shoots them in the spine.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  You know who edited that video?

• 37:55Nilay Patel?

  Who's that?

• 37:55Speaker 00

  Tanya.

• 37:57Nilay Patel?

  That's not a tiny move.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Only because Stephanie made her.

• 38:00Nilay Patel?

  You gotta stop. I get it.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Space.

• 38:03Nilay Patel?

  I get what you're saying.

• 38:04Speaker 00

  What did Jeff Bezos do?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  So Jeff Bezos, is it Bezos or Bezos?

• 38:08Nilay Patel?

  Who cares?

• 38:09Speaker 00

  I would say Bezos.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, not worried about it. Uh, he invited a select group of reporters to his, uh, facility.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  His lair?

• 38:19Speaker 02

  His lair. No, it's Blue Origins facility in Kent, Washington. And it's big, it's a big deal because up until now, the company is known for its like high levels of secrecy. I remember the Texas Tribune, they also have like a testing facility in Texas, uh, and the Texas Tribune did this massive, beautiful, like interactive story and they like had to go camp outside and like they knocked on the, well, they, they rang the doorbell, I guess, on the gate and they still wouldn't get access. Like, that's how deeply they tried to like get in contact with them.

• 38:51Nilay Patel?

  Uh, and. Wait, by ringing the doorbell?

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Well, no, no, I mean.

• 38:56Nilay Patel?

  Sorry.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  After like normal ways of contacting people.

• 39:01Nilay Patel?

  You like really, you like built it up and like they went and then they ring the doorbell.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  And then they went home.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  They ding dong ditched Jeff Bezos.

• 39:11Nilay Patel?

  Screw you, rocket boy. Left a bag of poo.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  He's standing up there shaking his fist.

• 39:19Nilay Patel?

  I'm not talking to you when I'm in space. I'm leaving, I'm leaving this town. For the moon.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Alright, anyway. So up until now, whatever they've been, I mean, and they've had a lot of success, right? So they were the first ones to launch and then land a rocket after sending it into space.

• 39:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  And they did it twice. So they actually reused a reusable rocket. You know, that's what everybody's been talking about right now.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  And they were the first to do that, yeah?

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were the first. And, uh, I mean, there have been like reusable space planes before, but this is the first one that like launches vertically and then lands vertically, which is like a much different type of engineering feat.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  Lauren, can I ask, what is, uh, Blue Origin's main goal with these rockets? Is it to launch payloads?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  No. So right now, they only have one rocket called the New Shepard, and it's a suborbital space plane, or, uh, sorry, rocket. So it just goes to the edge of space. It wouldn't actually make a revolution around Earth. It's not going fast enough, and it's not going high enough. And then any passengers in the capsule that it takes up there would experience like four minutes of weightlessness. And then they come back down in parachutes. And then the capsule will come down in a parachute, and then the rocket lands, so that the entire thing is saved.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  So this is like an awesome space vacation?

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  For four minutes.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  It's like the coolest thing that you could brag about doing for the rest of your life. Like, I went to space for four minutes.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  That sounds awesome.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Uh, it does sound awesome. Uh, but the thing is, they've just been very secretive about their testing. The only thing we know about when these things happen is like whenever they release a press release about it, and then like a really highly stylized video that's like, set to, you know, hard rock tunes and, you know, has everybody be like, wah!

• 41:14Speaker 00

  You know what they should set it to? Baby. They're straits.

• 41:18Nilay Patel?

  We gotta make a recut of a Blue Origin video.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Oh my god. Uh, anyway, so, yeah, it's been, I mean, for a space reporter, getting to talk to them has been a pretty big deal. So they brought a bunch of, uh, space reporters to their facilities, and I just happened to notice that the majority of those space reporters were men. And this was happening on International Women's Day. Which I thought was very ironic.

• 41:47Nilay Patel?

  When you say majority, what you mean is the vast majority, right?

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Yes. So it was, from what I can count, it's 11. Two women were there, and then the rest were men. And it just, I don't know. I mean, I understand the field that I am in is a very male-dominated field to begin with. So these types of events are gonna probably skew male just because of the employment numbers. But at the same time, I know very many qualified women who report on space, whom I list in the article that I wrote today. And it just was very odd to me that all of us had been shut out from this. And it's, and I know people can make this argument that's like, well, you know, maybe they don't know you,

• 42:34Speaker 02

  or they don't think you're qualified because, you know, you're new or whatever. But I know that they know me, and I know, like, I am qualified, you know? Like, they've definitely gone out of their way to contact me before.

• 42:47Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  So it, those are, and even if it wasn't about me, there are a bunch of other people, like National Geographic, Space.com, Wired, like, all those people probably would have sent women, and none of them got contact either. And not to belittle the people who did go, but they sent publications that were like, not that big nationally either, you know, like Huntsville Times. I understand, like Huntsville, like Alabama's a big space state, but at, you know, in terms of getting the word out, it seems like an odd play.

• 43:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Well, yeah, it's just like, it's, it's the cycle, right? They want the, they want the old-school space journalists to give them credibility, so they go to the old-school space journalists.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:33Nilay Patel?

  And those, and it's just the cycle.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  It just kind of perpetuates this boys' club, and it makes it harder for it to not be a boys' club anymore.

• 43:41Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  I mean, all of the reporters who you named who did not get to go, those are the names that I recognize for space coverage. Now admittedly, I read all my space coverage online.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  But like, I recognized all their names because they're the people who are constantly popping up in my Twitter feed. So it seems crazy that none of them had access.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  It didn't seem like it was about getting the most amount of coverage, or maximizing their coverage.

• 44:06Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  It seemed very much about like, who do we like, think of as important, you know? Who do we deem worthy of our, you know, our attention?

• 44:19Nilay Patel?

  Right. But, that said, they did, like, they showed the people the stuff.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:25Nilay Patel?

  And like, what was interesting to me is that, I don't know, this is probably like, way inside baseball, companies hold these events because they want a story to get told.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:36Nilay Patel?

  Right? And like, and they pick the reporters who will, I mean, this is what I mean, inside baseball, like, if you play ball and you tell the right story, like, you'll get invited again. And like, these older reporters tend to really play ball. And one of the things when, when we first hired Liz to be our science editor, she said very clearly to me, I don't, like, she's like, I don't want to play ball. Like, every, like, particularly in space, everybody gets away with it. Like, everyone's super credulous and they believe all the companies, and now you have private space fight companies, which aren't even the government, trying to do stuff. And we, there's no reason to be credible of them. Right? They are trying to do something very hard, many of them are succeeding in various ways, but like, there's still businesses trying to make a buck and like, market their stuff. She's like, we're not gonna be credible. And then when we were like, interviewing Lauren, Liz was like, I

• 45:20Nilay Patel?

  don't want to be credible. Lauren's like, got it. Right? And like, that, to me, is, that's really the danger here, right? It's like, you, if you go back to the old school people, because you'll, you know you're gonna get a story, the story you want is gonna get out there because they know how to play the access game. Then the real journalism won't happen. It's like, so it's two different problems that are the same problem fundamentally, right? It's like, you're not opening the pool, you're not exposing yourself to skepticism or new voices, you're just going back to the well of like, the old boys' club. And like, if the world was different, and everyone is totally diverse, it would still just be like, the old journalist's club, and you would have the same set of problems. And it's just now what's happening is it's colliding with the fact that we would like the tech and

• 46:04Nilay Patel?

  science industries to be more diverse. And so it is, that rift is now broken along gender lines, as well as like, experience and credibility lines. Does that make sense?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does. And, and, yeah, to that point, I do respect, like I said, I do respect all the people that went. But yeah, their style of writing is very much like, you know, I'm just gonna send you all the info. And, and there's really no critical take sometimes. I don't want to, I don't want to criticize too much. I, I do very respect, much respect all these people. But, but yeah, it's a different style of, I, I think sometime, now, younger people can, will understand that they can take like, a harsher take on things, and not just, you know, put the facts out there without, I think I'm not articulating myself correctly. I think you understand what I mean?

• 46:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  Well, I, I know exactly what Lauren means, because, you know, if you're writing for a very traditional publication, you have to be exceptionally objective, right down the center. Whereas, I think The Verge typically has a point of view, and like Lauren absolutely does, and that informs her space coverage, and that also informs like, me, who is reading the space coverage. Because, like, if it's just straight, I have no idea what to make of it, because there's so much going on.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  And so, I mean, I find having that point of view to be extremely helpful.

• 47:23Nilay Patel?

  Well, and the, the important point there is that there's also a point of view in the so-called straight down the middle objective. Yeah, now we're like, getting weeds. Like, this is what I mean by insane baseball, like, that's what Dieter is referring to, the view from nowhere, which is like, an old, Jeff Jarvis, someone, one of those guys. But even regardless of that, like, that's the internet culture moment.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 47:45Nilay Patel?

  By the way, everyone should watch People vs. OJ. Like, just watch it. I will tell you that this weird FX fictionalized show about the OJ Simpson trial has like totally made me rethink.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Can I, can I blow everybody's mind? I'm gonna get cable. I'm tired of dealing with being unplugged and not being able to.

• 48:03Nilay Patel?

  Get some cable, man. It's great.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  And you can watch People vs. OJ.

• 48:06Nilay Patel?

  Unplugged right in that firehose. I mean, you could steal the hell out of People vs. OJ. It's everywhere. It's like hard not to torrent People vs. OJ.

• 48:14Nilay Patel?

  That makes no sense.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  I don't know why you're getting cable. This doesn't make any sense.

• 48:16Nilay Patel?

  Okay, let me just finish this one thought about People vs. OJ. Just go back and watch it. Don't watch it because you care about OJ. It's a captivating show, great acting, amazing guys. Watch how the media interplays with the culture there, because there's no internet, there's no phones, there's no Twitter. Like, everything gets funneled through these, like, broad-based, super sensational media outlets, and there's no check against them from, like, social media. So like, I think that we are all often very annoyed by Twitter outrage.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 48:47Nilay Patel?

  Right, it's a thing. I'm often annoyed by outrage culture in general. Like, person said this, and then like four people are like,

• 48:55Nilay Patel?

  "That's racist." You know, like, whatever it is. Like, there's like this cycle, and like if you exist in the cycle like enough times, it's like, "Oh, there's just so much noise." But then you go and watch People vs. OJ, and you're like, "Oh, that cycle is tremendously valuable." Because it means that you can't just, the media has a constant check from real people saying, "You're crazy, you're out of line, you're not being human to other people." And that, like, this whole thing that we're talking about with Blue Origin and like Space Report is like, there was a time when that, that little club of reporters, there was no check against them. There was no other outlets, there was no citizen media, there was no social media, there was just them. They controlled all of the outlets, and they got to do or say whatever they want.

• 49:36Nilay Patel?

  I don't know, man. You should definitely watch this show. Like, it's, it's just as a media history, that show is amazing. This is a total tangent from space. OJ Simpson, as far as I can tell, never went to space. He was in Lethal Weapon 3.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  So, the question-

• 49:48Nilay Patel?

  Or not Lethal Weapon, he was in Naked Gun 3.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, what the hell?

• 49:50Nilay Patel?

  He was in Naked Gun 33 and 34.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Do you think this show appeals to people that didn't watch it, like, when it happened? Like, I remember-

• 49:56Nilay Patel?

  This is such a tangent.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  We canceled school. Like, we would, we would just go and like, watch TV in the middle of the hallway.

• 50:02Nilay Patel?

  I remember where I was when the trial got-

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Nobody went to class. Nobody, everyone was just like-

• 50:05Nilay Patel?

  Absolutely.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  I stood in the library in my school.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  That's absolutely insane.

• 50:08Nilay Patel?

  It was in high school. You were probably in high school too, right?

• 50:11Speaker 00

  We canceled, we, we canceled school for all kinds of crap. Like, when the Twins won the World Series.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  What year was this?

• 50:15Speaker 00

  We would just like, we'd like, cancel school so we'd watch the pro.

• 50:18Nilay Patel?

  94, 95.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't wanna talk about that.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  I don't remember.

• 50:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, it's something-

• 50:23Speaker 02

  I really remember-

• 50:23Nilay Patel?

  Dieter was 25 years old.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was.

• 50:25Nilay Patel?

  He was still in school for some reason.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. He was a real slow student.

• 50:29Nilay Patel?

  Dieter's like, the oldest senior at Minnesota High.

• 50:33Speaker 00

  Minnesota High? The whole state is one base school. It's really big.

• 50:40Nilay Patel?

  Anyhow, do you wanna, do you wanna get into the Scott Kelly thing and then, what's the Blue Origin news? Get into that for five seconds.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  So, the Blue Origin news was that they basically set a timeline for when we can expect, uh, to actually ride their rocket. So, they're gonna start test flights, human test flights, next year with the goal of actually sending passengers into space in 2018. Uh, and, I mean, it was cool info. Uh, they said that there's no, there's not gonna be any pilots, so- You're just going up with a bunch of other friends and it's automated. I mean, you don't need one, but, uh, it still is interesting to think about that no one's gonna be holding your hand the entire time.

• 51:18Nilay Patel?

  What's a rocket? Like, what can a pilot, like, really do?

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I mean, the Virgin Galactic space plane uses a pilot, but that's because it's a plane, so it's a bit different in design. But, yeah, rockets are pretty automate, automated.

• 51:29Nilay Patel?

  I would definitely trust a robot over a pilot.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  To take you to space?

• 51:33Nilay Patel?

  Take me to space. Hundred percent, we'd rather, we'd rather have a, a robot that can't, like, blackout, get scared, throw up.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  Get hacked?

• 51:41Nilay Patel?

  Get, eh.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Mmm. Oh, my God.

• 51:43Nilay Patel?

  But what is throwing up but being physically hacked?

• 51:48Nilay Patel?

  Think about it.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 51:50Nilay Patel?

  Jake's on, Jake's on my tip.

• 51:51Speaker 03

  No, I think Neil, I might be right here.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  So, here's the problem-

• 51:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  With that plan.

• 51:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Tanya programmed the robot.

• 52:00Nilay Patel?

  No!

• 52:02Speaker 00

  It's like, you get halfway up, it's like, have you tried Verizon?

• 52:06Nilay Patel?

  Your entire time in space is full of Verizon ads.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  It would be so much more expensive to get up there without them.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like you're looking out the window and then it like comes up is like enjoy space for 30 more seconds after you watch this.

• 52:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, there's no like blue marble moment, there's no serenity, it's just like screaming at you about VZW Navigator.

• 52:27Nilay Patel?

  For only $3.99 a month, we can get you home.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 52:30Nilay Patel?

  And then it gets you home.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  And then you're blackmailed for the rest of life. Rising to you showing up.

• 52:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Do you get like a Prime membership if you go on one of these rocket ships?

• 52:42Nilay Patel?

  No, Prime for life.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, Prime for life.

• 52:44Nilay Patel?

  Prime for life, it's funny because Amazon Prime also sounds like the name of a rocket ship.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, wait, they're gonna use the, they're gonna use Alexa on the rocket ship.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  Amazon's AI.

• 52:54Nilay Patel?

  Their voice assistant.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, she'd be like, please take your seats, we're about to plunge back to earth.

• 52:59Nilay Patel?

  This is the part where, you know.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  That is the part I.

• 53:02Nilay Patel?

  Just take one last look around because I'm driving you home.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  That is something that I am curious about when it comes to these flights is, so you're presumably in seats that when you go up and then you unbuckle to like float around, but then like at what point, I mean, you gotta get back in the chair.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  With a quickness, right?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 53:22Nilay Patel?

  Wait, why would you ever, oh, because you want to be weightless.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's the whole point.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Is it worth?

• 53:26Nilay Patel?

  How wait, how long did you be?

• 53:28Speaker 00

  Four minutes.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Four minutes.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Is that worth it?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  I mean, I would do it if I, if I, we actually have this talk, talk all the time. If I felt safe, I mean, my safety is more important to me than like spending four minutes in space, obviously, but.

• 53:44Nilay Patel?

  I don't know if you're sufficiently committed to this job.

• 53:48Nilay Patel?

  You didn't read that contract, did you?

• 53:50Speaker 02

  It's like, if you have the option of space, would you do it?

• 53:52Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  You must.

• 53:53Nilay Patel?

  You're done.

• 53:55Nilay Patel?

  That's so threatening. I'm gonna start saying you're done more, anyway, keep going.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Okay, cool.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so at some point you gotta strap back down and I'm just wondering like, you know, at what, what's that timeline like where you're like, oh no, I can't get back to my seat, I'm floating around, like, I'm just curious how that, how that works. Or what kind of training they put you through.

• 54:17Nilay Patel?

  Do you think that you're on like a tether and it just like reels you in, it's like you're back?

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 54:22Nilay Patel?

  See ya.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  But that's another thing to think of, maybe they'll have like guides with you, you know, they might not have a pilot.

• 54:29Nilay Patel?

  How many people can fit in each capsule?

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm not sure.

• 54:33Nilay Patel?

  Right, because if it's like-

• 54:34Speaker 02

  It's not a lot.

• 54:35Speaker 00

  It's like-

• 54:35Nilay Patel?

  Like, what's your guide-

• 54:36Speaker 00

  Four or eight or something?

• 54:37Nilay Patel?

  But you need like a guide to tourist ratio.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:41Nilay Patel?

  Like, one guide, twenty people, he's like, alright, go!

• 54:43Speaker 03

  How many guides do you need?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  I think you just need one guide.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  You just look, it's cool.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Six, six tourists at a time.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  Six tourists, yeah.

• 54:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, like, well, and then I think, that's Earth.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  Right, we're now passing, like, you know what you're passing.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Oh god, what if, what if they have like, like, the Disney ride, like, voice the entire time?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  You don't get to chill out in space.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  That's what it'll be like eventually, like, people want that voice.

• 55:07Nilay Patel?

  Right, and then, and like, every so often, it'll just like quietly be like, have you thought about backing up your photos with Verizon backup? It's like, it's just gonna happen, we're all doomed.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  Can I ask one more space question?

• 55:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  SpaceX rocket didn't land properly.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  It didn't.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  What's up with that?

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Uh, they knew it wasn't gonna land properly.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  So why did they launch it, though?

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Well, they had to get the satellite to space.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  Oh, I see.

• 55:30Nilay Patel?

  It's like, well, what the fuck, I mean-

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Like, what's the point if you can't land it?

• 55:34Speaker 00

  Can I ask a science question, not related to space, before we do the lightning round?

• 55:38Nilay Patel?

  Wait, I want her to finish the SpaceX one.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, sorry.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, so, they launched this satellite called the SES-9 satellite, and it was the largest satellite that they've ever launched, uh, and when that happens, it takes a lot more, uh, velocity to get the satellite into space, and so, and also, it was a very high orbit, too, so, that also involves a lot of velocity, that uses a lot of fuel, and that depletes the amount of fuel that you can use to land the rocket back down, so they were very positive that it wasn't gonna work because of all those different factors, um, but still, it would've been really cool if it did, which is why everybody was like-

• 56:14Nilay Patel?

  Why don't they just hold the right amount of fuel in reserve?

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Because it's just not possible, like, the amount of space.

• 56:21Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Like, some, I mean, you, I mean, the primary reason is getting the thing into space, so-

• 56:26Nilay Patel?

  Nah, I see.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  You know, it just depends on, like, the type of mission, but they said that the next one is probably more likely, and they're gonna try for a journey ship again, so-

• 56:37Nilay Patel?

  Are they gonna, when are they gonna relaunch one?

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Have they said?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  I would assume.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  They gotta land one, another one first.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz they're not gonna use the first one. But I would assume they would try, I mean, like, I don't understand why they would not do it with the next one. So the next one that they land, I would assume that they would try to launch it cuz they need to like, they wanna show that this is a cost-effective method, they need to like, show it in action. And they talked a big game about, you know, launching a lot this year. And, you know, that this is gonna save them like thirty percent on their launch costs. So we need to like, see that happen in order for their comments to be validated.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  Oh, you said there was Mars news?

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, Mars news. Well, we are, well, we're not launching, but the European space.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  We have a rocket. I didn't wanna tell you this, but now you know.

• 57:26Nilay Patel?

  What? It's called Amazon Prime?

• 57:30Nilay Patel?

  That's so obviously the name for a rocket.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  Like, you go to Amazon, and it's like, do you wanna ship to your home address or an alternate address? You just type in Mars. Away it goes.

• 57:38Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, Mars news.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Um, so the European Space Agency and Roscosmos, the Russian Federal Space Agency have teamed up to launch spacecraft to Mars to look for alien life. And the first of those, that's two launches for the ExoMars mission. And the first one is going up on Monday, and it's sending an orbiter to Mars that is gonna sniff out traces of methane, which is usually an indicator of biological life cuz when things degrade, we fart out a bunch of methane. And, uh, so.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  I mean, we were just gonna roll with it.

• 58:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I was with you.

• 58:11Speaker 00

  You're the one who broke.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Sorry. And, uh, so, and there's been a lot of debate about whether or not there's methane there. Like, some instruments have like detected methane, but not a lot of it. And people are all really curious about that. So hopefully, these instruments will be sensitive enough to like, put that debate to rest.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  How much methane do you need for the orbiter to detect it? Like, orbiter's way up there, and methane is down here.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Um, they said they, they, it's very sensitive to small amounts, but I don't, I.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Like, the size of a bucket, the size of a football field?

• 58:43Speaker 02

  That is, that is a good question.

• 58:44Nilay Patel?

  A bucket of methane.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  Bucket of methane.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Bucket of methane.

• 58:46Nilay Patel?

  That's like, that's, um, oh, God. Never mind.

• 58:50Speaker 03

  When does this thing get to Mars?

• 58:51Nilay Patel?

  It's my favorite Bear Naked Ladies album.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Wait, so.

• 58:54Nilay Patel?

  It's a bucket of methane. That's what I was thinking.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  Within the year.

• 58:56Nilay Patel?

  I don't know why the Bear Naked Ladies. Doesn't that sound like a Bear Naked Ladies album? Bucket of methane?

• 59:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:00Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. Go ahead, Jake.

• 59:03Speaker 03

  Within the year, or like, you know, some near amount of time, we may have a good idea of if there are, like, living organisms.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Hmm, I would qualify that, because it's very hard to say for sure without, like, studying the samples here on Earth. So, and, and, so, okay, these two, these two things get to Mars in October, but then the orbiter doesn't start science operations till, like, December of 2017.

• 59:30Nilay Patel?

  Slacker.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  It's got to do some stuff to get in the right orbit, and they're sending a lander, which is just kind of like a demonstration of how to land on Mars, and then they're gonna use that technology to land a rover in 2018. So there's a lot of steps to go through, and like, even if the orbiter found methane, it's not an indicator that there is life. It's just like, oh, that's enticing, let's study further. And then if the rover found signs of life, even then, I doubt people would be like, there's life on Mars, because they'd be like, well, this could have messed up the instruments or something.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Like, people, it's, it's gonna be very hard for someone to definitively say we found life.

• 1:00:18Nilay Patel?

  There's life on Mars.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, because whenever we sense-

• 1:00:20Nilay Patel?

  No, no, I'm saying, right now.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  There is.

• 1:00:22Nilay Patel?

  Roll flat, life on Mars. Duh. Come on, people. It's like, why are we still arguing? You know it's true.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:31Nilay Patel?

  Also, Matt Damon. He is life on Mars. Oh, sorry.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  What'd you think of that movie?

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  I liked it.

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  What'd you think of the book?

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  I liked the book.

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  I mean, it was basically the book.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:00:43Nilay Patel?

  Movie studios might let people rent films that are on day and date with theater for $50. You gotta buy their $150 box. Are you in?

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely not.

• 1:00:50Nilay Patel?

  No?

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:00:52Nilay Patel?

  You wouldn't rent a movie the day it came out in the theater for $50 at your house?

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Actually, $50 is like about the price you pay for two people in Manhattan, so, maybe.

• 1:01:01Nilay Patel?

  Theater?

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  $150 box?

• 1:01:03Nilay Patel?

  It's a $150, it's whatever. It's a secure anti-piracy box.

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  Oh, come on!

• 1:01:06Nilay Patel?

  It's what they say.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  You've always wanted a secure anti-piracy box in your living room.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  I would do it for $40, but I don't want a secure anti-piracy box.

• 1:01:13Nilay Patel?

  Hagling?

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  Yes!

• 1:01:15Nilay Patel?

  $10!

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  I'm hagling!

• 1:01:17Nilay Patel?

  All right, all right. I would do it. Lauren?

• 1:01:21Nilay Patel?

  Well.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  I have bills to pay.

• 1:01:24Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Groceries to buy.

• 1:01:26Nilay Patel?

  We pay whatever.

• 1:01:29Nilay Patel?

  Lauren, Lauren works for free. Let's do that. She's doing it for the exposure. Sonos, future products will be more like Amazon Alexa and Echo.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Nilay Patel?

  Dieter?

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  I mean, they gotta do that or die, and who knows if they can?

• 1:01:44Nilay Patel?

  That feels really obvious to me. Lauren, have you gotten an Echo yet? Have you like seen the obsession that we have with the Echo?

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  No, but I want one. I do want one. I want to be able to come in and just say, "Lights off."

• 1:01:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's a thing.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  That's like, that's what, but that's the only reason I want it, and I don't know if that's enough.

• 1:01:58Nilay Patel?

  For the people in the car, what you didn't see was when Lauren said "lights off," she spread her arms majestically. She was like, "Lights off."

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  That's how I'm gonna do it.

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:05Nilay Patel?

  Also, why are you walking in and saying "lights off"?

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Because then the disco ball drops. And then the dance party commences.

• 1:02:14Nilay Patel?

  Wired published at least two articles calling Donald Trump "someone with tiny hands" because an editor on the Wired staff had a rogue Chrome extension that took them hours to find.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Hours? That's insane.

• 1:02:27Nilay Patel?

  Um, well, they put, I mean, they, what's more insane is that they published the articles. Like, you know, they published the articles.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Did they, did they say who it was?

• 1:02:35Nilay Patel?

  They did not say who it was. Uh, we, like, you know, we got friends at Wired.

• 1:02:41Nilay Patel?

  Tanya. Tanya's a leaker.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Tanya.

• 1:02:43Speaker 00

  You know how sometimes?

• 1:02:45Nilay Patel?

  So we've made this mistake.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  But it's not really a mistake.

• 1:02:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, so we've made this mistake.

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  That's my conscience.

• 1:02:50Nilay Patel?

  Uh, we published, our mistake, actually, you would have never noticed. We published an interview with Chuck Palahniuk about Fight Club, and his first quote was like, "The millennials have never had a rock opera." And that's like the, literally, first line, first quote, and we had the Snake People extension installed. And so it's, the first quote is like, "The Snake People have never had a rock opera." And it's like, you would never know. You would never know that we screwed that up. Like, we could have just left it, and it would have been fine.

• 1:03:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Nilay Patel?

  I'm just gonna reveal this, because it happened. Another website at Vox Media had, an editor had the "cloud to butt" extension. So every mention of the word "cloud" became the word "butt."

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  It's a great extension, by the way.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  Save it to the butt.

• 1:03:41Nilay Patel?

  And they published an entire story where it was like, the cigarettes making butts in the air. So like, all, like, I just think it's hilarious, like, whatever, like, we're not gonna criticize Wired too much, like, we've all made this mistake, but super hilarious. Amazon making a VR platform.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  Who isn't?

• 1:03:57Nilay Patel?

  Apple.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  Uh, they've been hiring, yeah.

• 1:04:00Nilay Patel?

  Although I've heard, I've heard, I've heard that they're poking around, but...

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Dropbox, get on that VR.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  Can you shop in this?

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  I think all we know is they're hiring, right?

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  You just like paw at the air.

• 1:04:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 00

  You want it.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Wait, have we talked-

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  Turn the lights off.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Have we talked about Jake's wifi, um, uh, water bottle?

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  This is very emotional for me.

• 1:04:24Nilay Patel?

  This is like the biggest story of the week.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  You should've done nothing but talk about wifi water pitcher.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, Jake.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  You promised me a video about this thing.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  I know, I know, I've been trying to schedule it, it's in the works, well-

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Get it in.

• 1:04:38Nilay Patel?

  Alright.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  It's gonna happen.

• 1:04:40Nilay Patel?

  Let me just lay the backstory here, and I will say, I wasn't in the office when this happened, I watched it all unfold on Twitter.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 1:04:46Nilay Patel?

  Uh, which is amazing. Jake bought a thing that, when it runs out of filters, when the filter gets old, it orders a new one automatically from Amazon over wifi.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Nilay Patel?

  He was, literally, you can go look at the tweets, it is the complete emotional arc of a broken man. He's like, I'm gonna, like, he's like, this news came out, I'm buying this thing, it's gonna make my life better, I'm super into it, he got it, it showed up, it was in the office, a hundred people in our office tweeted about it, and Jake was like, it's too big for my fridge.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Yep, no, I'm, I'm like, so upset about how this went. Everyone thought this was gonna be the dumbest thing, and I'm like, no, this is brilliant. I ordered it immediately, the day it was announced. I was like, sweet, it'll be here in two days, I like, I cleaned it all nice, I primed the filter, got it going.

• 1:05:32Speaker 00

  You primed the filter? Nobody primes the filter.

• 1:05:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to prime the filter, otherwise you end up drinking carbon or whatever. It says you have to prime the filter. I primed the filter, and then I go to put it in my fridge, and it doesn't fit.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  Oh. But, but the best part, the best part of this story, is not that the thing doesn't fit, it's that after 12 hours of having the filter in his possession, it ordered him another filter.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  Why?

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  It thought, oh, he's out of filters.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  All of the verge and all of rack, who sits next to us, we did nothing but yell at each other about the water pitcher for a half an hour. Like, we all like closed our laptops, stood up and like, we're like, "Why did you buy a water pitcher?" "It's okay that you bought a water pitcher." "The water pitcher sucks, it won't fit in my fridge."

• 1:06:25Nilay Patel?

  Did you sell it? You were gonna sell it?

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  How many buyers do you have?

• 1:06:28Speaker 03

  I would have. Zero. It's been sitting on my windowsill for a week now.

• 1:06:33Nilay Patel?

  Did you still connect to the wifi?

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  I'm gonna shoot a video with it, and then I'll walk on the street, and whoever's got like 10 bucks for me. I mean, it holds water. Like, ultimately...

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  It is functional as a pitcher.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  Excellent double entendre there.

• 1:06:48Nilay Patel?

  Wait, can you not rearrange the shelves in your fridge?

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  Can you factory reset the dash? Is there like...

• 1:06:54Nilay Patel?

  Is it always gonna order you new filters?

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, if you give this thing away, you're going to end up having filters show up at your apartment for like years.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  That is a good question. I hope that they've thought that through.

• 1:07:08Nilay Patel?

  When it orders them, does it actually complete the purchase, or does it just put it in your cart?

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  No, it straight up completes the purchase.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Oh my god!

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  No, the creepy thing is, it sends you an email and it says, "Brita Pitcher has ordered like a filter, and it will be delivered to you." It's like, like this object made the purchase. Very strange.

• 1:07:29Nilay Patel?

  Man, okay, I can't wait for this video. Can you not rearrange the shelves in your fridge?

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  Okay, so I can, but it would, it would just be the most unreasonable way. Like, I would have to basically remove an entire shelving unit in order to make this pitcher fit.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Jake just took it as a sign from God.

• 1:07:47Nilay Patel?

  Literally nobody.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  That his purchase was not a good one.

• 1:07:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. You're like, "You know what? I'm not doing this."

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  I just feel like it's an unreasonable size.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  The important thing is the level of heartbreak, that you can't have it.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. I was very excited about this. I never remember.

• 1:08:03Nilay Patel?

  You should buy something else that orders shit for you, like a color printer. You need one of those.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  I've never needed a printer.

• 1:08:11Nilay Patel?

  When was the last time you printed something? Last question, lighting around. When was the last time you printed something?

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  I mean, I probably printed like, uh, concert tickets, but I did it with our office printer.

• 1:08:21Nilay Patel?

  Could use some resources.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  Why do we have it?

• 1:08:24Nilay Patel?

  Monday.

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  Because of the salespeople.

• 1:08:27Nilay Patel?

  They're always printing all kinds of crap. I don't know. I don't know what they do. Somehow they, this thing makes money.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  I'm sure my concert tickets were about as important to the company.

• 1:08:37Nilay Patel?

  The best place to have books read to you in your mind.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:08:40Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, they did it again. Made that a 10 bucks.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 1:08:42Nilay Patel?

  I think.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  I printed something on Monday.

• 1:08:44Nilay Patel?

  Becky prints every morning.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  What? Why?

• 1:08:47Nilay Patel?

  Uh, one, because she's a lawyer, and two, because she's always returning shit to like Birchbox and like.

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:08:52Nilay Patel?

  But like, literally every morning, I hear the printer going. It's crazy. I need to buy a laser printer.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  With you. If I buy a printer first, then I can return this water pitcher.

• 1:09:02Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you need a return label.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Nilay Patel?

  When was the last time you printed something?

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  I think I printed my tickets for my vacation on the work computer, on the work printer.

• 1:09:13Speaker 00

  That's what it's for.

• 1:09:15Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it is. I'm just saying. Anyway, look. Thank you all for coming with us on this journey.

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  Well, how long have you printed something?

• 1:09:22Nilay Patel?

  Like I said, well, does Becky count as me?

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:09:25Nilay Patel?

  We're married. We're like the same. No? I don't know when last time I printed something was. When was the last time I printed something? Oh, I have one of those like Birchbox things too. So the thing comes and I send it back all the time. What's it called? Bombfell. I have Bombfell. I send back the Bombfell package. It's like, it's like code now, Becky just like mutters the word Bombfell at me and I know that I'm supposed to go printer return label and like something. Anyway, look, this was the Vergecast. I'm sorry.

• 1:09:49Nilay Patel?

  Just everyone. Just a blanket apology for the show.

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  These are all the same company, right?

• 1:09:53Nilay Patel?

  They're all the same company. They're all, they're all rebrands of the same base. There's like one guy in a warehouse in Chicago and he's like, I know, everybody gets this shirt.

• 1:09:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Nilay Patel?

  We should do an expose of these like, you know, the subscription clothes companies.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  Do they just like throw rent?

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

  It's time to end.

• 1:10:08Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, we're way over. Okay, look. Do you want to do all the engagements, Jake? You're in the hype desk. Name three social platforms they should follow us on.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Um, Google Plus. Where?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  You already messed up.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  All right, let's see.

• 1:10:24Nilay Patel?

  Microsoft's Groove Music. We've started putting playlists on it.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  All right. Follow us on Twitter. Twitter.com slash Verge.

• 1:10:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  Not The Verge is a Canadian radio station. They play very boring music.

• 1:10:41Nilay Patel?

  Well, we have to drive them out of business so we can take their Twitter handle.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  Second of all, this is very important. Facebook.com/verge. We post, we have instant articles now, let me tell you. Exceptionally fast.

• 1:10:52Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  I like, actually, I'm really into it.

• 1:10:56Nilay Patel?

  I have a whole riff about this, but anyway, keep going.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Okay, finally, YouTube.com/theverge.

• 1:11:01Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  That one's got a "the" in front of it. It is not Canadian or a radio station, if you go to YouTube.

• 1:11:08Nilay Patel?

  It could be more Canadian. Ariel's gonna get a show soon.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  It will be part-Canadian soon.

• 1:11:13Speaker 00

  Uh, what about following the people here?

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Following the people here?

• 1:11:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:11:19Nilay Patel?

  Wait, hold on.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Do I actually know everybody's Twitter handle? I think I do.

• 1:11:23Nilay Patel?

  Go ahead, read them off.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Good luck.

• 1:11:25Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:11:25Speaker 00

  Focus. Focus!

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  I'm not. All right. We got Dieter Bone, who is at Backlon. Neelai Patel, who is at Reckless. Lauren Grush, who is at Lauren Grush. Yeah! And myself, who is at Jake underscore K.

• 1:11:40Nilay Patel?

  That was the Vergecast, everybody. I'm really happy you two are here today. Jake, your negativity did not overcome the show.

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  I'm so sorry.

• 1:11:49Nilay Patel?

  No, you did great.

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  I didn't hype enough.

• 1:11:51Nilay Patel?

  No, I think you were appropriately hyped.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:11:53Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, look, that was the Vergecast. I want everybody to have a good summer. Come back and live life to the fullest.

• 1:12:01Speaker 02

  And don't hate on Tanya so much.

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  Lightning is silent.