The UFO Propaganda Machine - Eighty Years Of Lies & Disinformation

Former AARO director Sean Kirkpatrick is still carrying a torch for his lost love. Although his tenure at the UFO agency was brief, the lovesick Dr. Kirkpatrick can’t let go of his former paramour - flying saucers. In the first part of a multi-segment propaganda piece, Dr. K. unleashed his pent-up fury about those sexy flying machines in a preposterous fusillade of invective and falsehoods, telling the Wall Street Journal that every UFO incident in the last 78 years was actually secret U. S. technology. Kirkpatrick (and his AARO successor) admitted that the DOD has lied to the American public, misled Congress, and deceived high-ranking military officers over decades. So, after three-quarters of a century of fibs, disinfo, and outright prevarications, should we now accept the latest round of lies as truth? Oh sure. In this episode of Weaponized, Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp respond to the laughable - and sad - attempt to further muddy the UFO waters. Also, the podcast is joined by two esteemed observers of UFO politics, including bestselling novelist and screenwriter Ernie Cline (Ready Player One) and podcaster/rock and roll entrepreneur Dan Cleary, who shared their experiences at the recent Contact in the Desert mega-conference. GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• If you missed the full IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION series with UFO whistleblower, Matthew Brown... you can catch up here : PART 1 : ⁠https://youtu.be/ZAxI-LDrDqA⁠ PART 2 : ⁠https://youtu.be/4n_bRtnIP14⁠ PART 3 : ⁠https://youtu.be/PtBVAxoHeaY⁠ ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 0:59George Knapp?

  This new Wall Street Journal article, a story that broke a couple of days ago, certainly the flavor I got from reading it was that this came from Sean Kirkpatrick, this guy who ran the Arrow program for, you know, just over a year, and who can't seem to let it go. He keeps popping back up to dismiss anybody who comes forward with information, to discourage whistleblowers.

• 1:22Jeremy Corbell?

  If this was our technology all along, then we didn't need the Manhattan Project and all that secrecy, all that money. We didn't need that to win the war, and we didn't need the Apollo missions to put us into space. But it does have implications, because it is illegal to run a deception campaign against the American people and Congress. Now, I've been in there with congressional members, with whistleblowers, secret meetings where I'm trying to get them heard. If this is a big deception campaign, then people are going to be going down for treason.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  The Wall Street Journal has proven to be an unreliable publication on this subject, so whenever they sound off, I kind of ignore it.

• 2:02George Knapp?

  The F-22, or the F-35, hundreds of billions of dollars we spent on them when we've got a super machine that could do everything and more than those machines could do.

• 2:10Speaker 04

  Or to let a bunch of astronauts and schoolteachers die on NASA missions in, like, papier-mache spacecraft for a dog and pony show when you've got anti-gravity since the early 60s.

• 2:34George Knapp?

  This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, coming to you from Las Vegas. I'm joined by my friend and colleague Jeremy Corbell, coming from locations unknown. How you doing?

• 2:42Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm good, man. How you doing?

• 2:44George Knapp?

  It's nice to be home, right? I mean, after weeks of being on the road, because you keep dragging me to these UFO conferences.

• 2:51Jeremy Corbell?

  As if, buddy. Look, I always love it when we end up going, but you know, I'm a little bit of a hermit isolationist, even though I look like an extrovert, but I say the same for you. So I think the fact that you do these things, or we do these things, man, I have so much fun, and I thank you for suggesting it sometimes. You had fun, right?

• 3:12George Knapp?

  I did have fun. Both the one in Oregon, McManville, and the Contact in the Desert, that was a lot of fun, too. I'm ready to not go to another one for a while. I think I got one more I'm gonna do this year toward the, in the fall, and that's gonna be it. I have a hard time saying no, but I think I'm gonna have to learn how to do that.

• 3:30Jeremy Corbell?

  You say no to me all the time. Who you got a hard time saying no to?

• 3:34George Knapp?

  You know, I know we are both fans of the great film Apocalypse Now, wherein, you know, there's a Robert Duvall scene where he says he loves the smell of napalm in the morning. I love that stuff. Well, I too have a favorite scent, something along these lines. I love the smell of scorched ozone left behind when UFO tech and those mystery craft kind of split the scene and leave, or maybe I should say UFO or UAP, because we learned this week that US secret military programs and platforms are the explanation for all that stuff.

• 4:06George Knapp?

  There are no UFOs, there are no UAPs. All UFO mythology was created by the US Air Force and maybe the CIA, and we're gonna get into that and get into this new Wall Street Journal article, a story that broke a couple of days ago. Also in this episode, we will be joined by a couple of friends of ours, friends of the podcast, who were at Contact in the Desert, the world's largest UFO gathering, days ago near Palm Springs, are gonna tell us what they saw there that stood out. We're going to check in about a new video produced by a longtime intelligence official, Chris Mellon, and we need to revisit our friend Matthew Brown, the whistleblower who shared with us details about Evacuate Constellation and related programs and secrets.

• 4:47George Knapp?

  He put out some social media posts this week that have tongues wagging and people wondering what the hell is this guy talking about? And you, Jeremy, as the Matt Brown whisperer, you can tell us sort of what he was trying to say there. Is that good? Yeah, yeah, let's do that. We'll decipher that at the end. So this Wall Street Journal article, I didn't read it for a day or so. I mean, and then I dived in. I was reluctant to do it. I have to tell you, that reporter reached out to me. He reached out to me a number of times. I did talk to him for about 10 or 15 minutes. And in that short period of time, he became very clear what the marching orders were for this piece, what his, what his theme was going to be.

• 5:29George Knapp?

  Certainly, the flavor I got from reading it was that this came from Sean Kirkpatrick, this guy who ran the, the Arrow program for, you know, just over a year, and who can't seem to let it go. Thin-skinned guy, he keeps popping back up to, to dismiss anybody who comes forward with information, to discourage whistleblowers, to lie to Congress, or at least what sounds like lies. And this article, I think, is getting a lot of attention, as I'm sure they knew it would. But it reeks of the same old steaming piles of BS that these secret keepers have been shoveling for decades. They're just adding what seems to be to be a new layer of excrement on top of what they've already been peddling for a long time, new wrinkles. It struck me as something that was kind of sophisticated, bit of your canary, and I'm

• 6:14George Knapp?

  sure it's going to work on some people, maybe on some members of Congress, a few of whom probably were never comfortable digging into this topic to begin with, and now they got a reason to go ahead and walk away from it because the Wall Street Journal says it's all a bunch of baloney, it's mythology. I have to tell you, Wall Street Journal, I subscribe to that paper. I think it is a great newspaper, and I know that I looked up some background when the reporter Joel Scheckman was trying to get a hold of me to dig into who he was. Before I called him back. And really, he's a pretty good reporter. He's done some really good stuff. But I think somebody whispered in his ear and gave him a theme for his article, and he went out to collect information and testimony that would back that up and justify

• 6:57George Knapp?

  it and ignored a lot of stuff that didn't fit into it. The article, the headline is the Pentagon disinformation that fueled America's UFO mythology. Of course, UFO mythology, you can see where that's going. He says the US military fabricated evidence of alien technology and allowed rumors to fester to cover up real secret weapons programs. They, two reporters say they've interviewed dozens of people, they probably have. But if I suspect that at least some of them, the ones that told them something that didn't fit with their theme, they left that stuff out. At least they left out of the first part. I look at Joel Scheckman's background, and this is what it says about him on X. Wall

• 7:39George Knapp?

  Street Journal Enterprise Reporter, espionage, espionage, psyops, cyber, and corruption. So he's, he's been in that world. He's been working with national security people on cyber crimes, espionage, psyops. I'm sure like most reporters who work a beat, he's developed sources, friendships even in that world. So sometimes, you know, there's danger when you work a beat long time, whether it's organized crime or whatever, that you get co-opted a little bit. And I think he tends to give those people who whispered this story into his ear, a lot more credibility than people who have a much different opinion. I would have to say that it struck me

• 8:18George Knapp?

  as reminiscent of what we've seen before, is that every year or two, some national reporter decides to jump into the UFO pool. Call it parachute journalism, you and I have talked about it before. They've done all this stuff on national security issues. They worked at the Pentagon. They get a pretty big head about themselves and knowing what really is going on. And they parachute into the UFO subject. They spend a couple of weeks kind of getting up to speed, and then they declare the whole thing solved. The whole thing's, it's all malarkey. I've solved it. You can move on now. You don't have to waste any time on UFOs. I I know that happens because that's the way I feel. You know, you and I have talked about it before when I started down this road. Is I think, gosh, this UFO topic is a mess. Give me six months and I'll have this thing all figured out.

• 9:04George Knapp?

  And of course, now it's thirty six years later and I know less than I did then. I know I know more, but I understand less. So you've seen this kind of stuff with reporters before, right?

• 9:13Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, I've I've felt it. It's pretty amazing. If you remember uh, the Storm Area Fifty One event or the Don't Storm Area Fifty One event. That what kind of transpired because of the, uh, you know, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen Bob Lazar film. And everybody just kind of went crazy. We talked about it on Rogan and then boom, this meme came out. But there was a reporter from Rolling Stones who like, you know, wanted to follow me for like a week or whatever it is and even brought him to my house. But the whole time he's writing about it. I could see that it was from a slant to try to kind of mock it. Now, it wasn't as insidious as this. He was just being Hunter Thompson. When he wrote that thing, it was really, you know, had fun taking mushrooms with me or whatever he wrote. But it was it was just this um.

• 9:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Way that I realized someone could parachute into the UFO world and just see it from topically. They forget their history. You've seen this type of attack, although this is very sophisticated. But the attack on reality, this was the the worst tactical move that they could have possibly made because they've trapped themselves in lies. The the Wall Street Journal. And so it it'll be very revealing to see this fleshed out. It's been tried before. It will be tried again. I will bring to your attention. It was really interesting. Rep Burleson at some point. You know, he went on the news saying that he was told by, you know, just he's not saying it is. He says he was told by people that two thousand four, the Tic Tac was Lockheed technology. And look.

• 10:40Jeremy Corbell?

  I understand that congresspeople are like hearing from a lot of people as they should. But this is the same BS that was, you know, put forward through the CIA. I'm going to tell you specific things right now. There are memos, CIA memos that are not public. And they're trying to convince other people in the intelligence agency. The Commander Fravor just kind of mistook his instruments or he had war nerves or something absolutely ridiculous like that. 2004, the Tic Tac was not made by Lockheed. If Lockheed had that tech in 2004, they would absolutely dominate the aerospace industry. And they've just recently lost contracts. So I don't know, man, we've seen this before, George. We're gonna see it again.

• 11:21Jeremy Corbell?

  But I think it's gonna take time to parse it out because this type of journalism is so obviously propagating government propaganda and lies. The UFO thing? It's all some hilarious joke where they were teasing and reporting to their own people that this is what, I mean, it's fundamentally ridiculous if you just step back and look at it.

• 11:43George Knapp?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, as I was saying, you know, it takes a lot of hubris to assume that you need a couple of weeks to figure this whole thing out because the topic is big. It takes a long time to get your head around it. It's not simple. It's not one, one layer, one level. And the premise, I think, of this article is pretty ridiculous that all this stuff is from the black world. It's our, our technology. I mean, look, UFOs 101, UFO kindergarten, you learn that 90 to 95% of all UFOs can be prosaically explained. They're clouds, they're balloons, they're planets, they're all sorts of things and secret technology. That happens. It does happen. And but that's, that's the starting point. That's not the end point. It's the other ones, the 5 to 10% that are left over

• 12:28George Knapp?

  that are really interesting. And if he's, if the Wall Street Journal is gonna suggest that those are all our technology, it's preposterous. I mean, you mentioned about documents that exist that have not been made public. Documents that have been made public make it clear that our military, behind closed doors, in great candor with each other, were saying back and forth, these things are real, they're not ours, they're from somewhere else who suspect they might be from outer space. They're not Russians. They're buzzing our national security sites, national labs, nuclear weapons facilities. They're not ours. They had no idea when they wrote those documents all those years ago, that 20 years later, the Freedom of Information Act would become law, and that all of their documents, the ones they don't shred or burn, would become public. And now

• 13:12George Knapp?

  they are public. And of course, we did not know what the hell those things were way back then. Roswell, was that our saucer? They said it was a flying saucer, a disk that had been crashed. A day later, they say it's a weather balloon. Twenty years down the road, they say it's a super duper secret weather balloon. And, and the bodies that people saw at the scene were crash test dummies that were dumped out of a plane ten years after the Roswell incident. I mean, it's ridiculous. And, you know, I'm reminded of the CIA study that came out in the mid nineties. And it was associated with, with Area 51. You got to meet, I think, the, you grilled the, the guy who wrote it, the CIA historian who wrote that report.

• 13:53George Knapp?

  He said, oh yeah, you know, all those UFOs you were seeing in the sixties and seventies, 50% of those are from us. 50% of all those UFO sightings are our spy planes, the U-2 and the SR-71, which is ridiculous. Does the U-2 look like a flying saucer? Does it look like a UFO? Does the U-2 land in people's backyards? Does it hover over their homes? Could you imagine going outside and there's an SR-71 sitting in the sky? I mean, I suspect that somewhere pilots would have seen a U-2 somewhere flying way, way up in the atmosphere. But they're designed not to be seen. Uh, you know, they, unless you're there when they take off or land, the public's not going to see them. Uh, an airline pilot might see one go by really fast and think it's a UFO. But how many of those cases actually have been documented?

• 14:38George Knapp?

  The CIA made that ridiculous statement and then never proved it. And some researchers, the late Bruce McAvie showed, it's, it's preposterous. There's no link between the actual data and the, and the known flights of those spy planes. So that was preposterous to begin with. Um, I, I saw in this Wall Street Journal article, they used the term conspiracy industry right up at the top. Which, that sets it up where anyone who comes forward and says, this is a bunch of crap. I worked in this program and that program. People like Jay Stratten or Jim Lekatsky or Colin Kelleher, who say, this is not true. It's ridiculous. Oh, well, you guys are part of the conspiracy industry. Of course you're going to say that.

• 15:18George Knapp?

  This is how I really knew the article was going to be bullshit because it starts with Area 51. And they say that the whole myth about saucers out at Groom Lake or near there is because, um, a colonel in the air force went to a bar. We know what that bar is. It's in Rachel. It's the only bar out there, which was called the Rachel Bar and Grill in the early, in the eighties. And he gave them some photos of what he said were real UFOs and they put them on the wall and that's how the story spread. And what they wanted to do was discourage attention away from the SR, the stealth fighter, the F-117 that was being developed out there at Area 51.

• 15:58George Knapp?

  Well, A, that is not how the story started. It came from insiders in the base, not from people outside who saw photos on a bar wall. B, um, let's say that that was their plan. Okay, we'll tell people there's UFOs out there at Area 51. And they'll all just figure, I'm not going to pay any more attention to it. How did that work out? As a result of that story that we did from Bob Lazar and the, and the series, tens of thousands of people have gone out there for year after year in the desert with binoculars, looking at whatever is flying around in the sky. Whatever secret projects they had out there, it backfired. I mean, every major news organization in the world has been Area 51. Because of the story about flying saucers, congressional investigators have been there.

• 16:43George Knapp?

  If they thought they had a secret project that didn't want the public to know about, they really screwed up by telling people there are UFOs out there because it completely backfired. So if that was their plan, I hope somebody got shit canned as a result of that.

• 16:55Jeremy Corbell?

  And like a couple of things you said, a lot of people just coming in in 2017 to the UFO thing, they don't know the history. They don't know that there are documents of Russia saying they're not ours and we know it's not the US's. They don't know that the US has documents that have come out and says, they're not ours and we know they're not Russians. So it's like, people will forget this past if they're just now coming into it. We've been dealing with this phenomenon since before the foo fighters and all of that stuff that was going on during the world war. If this was our technology all along, then we didn't need the Manhattan Project and all that secrecy, all that money. We didn't need that to win the war and we didn't need the Apollo missions to put us into space. This is something a friend was just talking to me about and I agree.

• 17:38Jeremy Corbell?

  It's, it is absurd, George, but it's not absurd if you don't have the information that comes prior to that. But it does have implications because it is illegal to run a deception campaign against the American people and Congress. Now I've been in there with congressional members, with whistleblowers, secret meetings where I'm trying to get them heard. If if if this is a big deception campaign, then people are gonna be going down for treason. And and it's just not. I mean, there might also be disinformation campaigns, obviously, in all directions. But the big picture is that if if they knew the truth about this, you know, Kirkpatrick and Phillips and all this stuff.

• 18:19Jeremy Corbell?

  If they knew the truth about this and they were hiding it from the National Security Council, from Congress, and they're running an op on the American people, then that's illegal. And that's a deception campaign against the American, the public. I don't know if they want to admit to that part of it. So I've got a lot of problems with the stories. We could break it down all day long, but I think, um, I want to have a couple of friends come on. Just real quick, give us their opinion on this stuff. And also, they were at Contact with us. So tell me about that, George.

• 18:46George Knapp?

  Yeah, Contact in the Desert. It's, I I keep saying Palm Springs. I I don't, there's a couple of little towns that are jammed together there. It's in that same general area. And Contact has become the world's largest UFO event. Um, they had dozens of speakers. We were there, give a little, uh, a talk or two. And, uh, I got to sit down with George Norrie and answer questions to the public. And I I wish I had had time. We were able to see a lot of the other speakers who were there. We just, it just wasn't in the cards. Uh, what, what, did something jump out for you there?

• 19:18Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, I mean, look, I I really just enjoyed kind of being able to hang out with people that I've seen on their podcasts and that sort of thing. There's the kid Patrick from Vetted, you know, Chris Ramsey, Jesse Michaels. I like the young blood coming in and throwing bombs. I I got to have beers and sit around with a bunch of fun people. So I always learn stuff just from like interacting, but got to really hang out with two really good friends of mine. Oh, Commander Guts was there with with his daughter. That was so cool, man. You know, we got to put a little picture of him up on the screen when we gave our presentation and embarrassed him. His daughter was laughing and pointing at him. It was great. Um, but also we got to hang out with, um, our good friend Dan and also Ernie, Ernie Klein. And I just wanted to see kind of what they're thinking about UFO land right now. What's up, Ernie?

• 20:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Hey, guys.

• 20:05Speaker 04

  How you doing?

• 20:06George Knapp?

  Ernie's a great gifted writer. He's a brilliant writer. Ready Player One was a bestseller book on the New York Times list. Ready Player Two also a bestseller. Armani was a bestseller. Ready Player One, of course, became a Steven Spielberg film, a hit film, by the way. And that's why Ernie can afford two of those cars in back of him there.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  It's true. Whether it's sales tools, I use them in the small books. What did? It's not just for my own geeky joy every day.

• 20:34George Knapp?

  Ernie, did you get a chance to read the Wall Street Journal piece?

• 20:38Speaker 04

  Uh, I did not, you know, the Wall Street Journal, uh, has proven to be an unreliable publication on this subject. So whenever they sound off, I kind of ignore it, along with the old gray lady of the New York Times. Uh, our most trusted, uh, news organizations can't be trusted on this topic. But what were you gonna say about what, what, what kind of nonsense do they peddle it?

• 21:00George Knapp?

  Well, I mean, they start with the Lazar story that Area 51 UFOs, alien tech out there was all the result of a Colonel who went to the bar out there in Rachel and gave them some fake UFO photos. So they would spread the story that there's UFOs in Area 51 and thus discouraged people from looking into what else was being tested out there, which is a pretty bad premise. Wouldn't you say how things worked out?

• 21:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it didn't work out. Uh, but you know, America's had other, uh, uh, other plans that haven't worked out, uh, in a similar fashion. So, but yeah, it's, it sounds ridiculous. Uh, I'm much more of a proponent of the theory that they, they, they knew that Bob, uh, was friends with John Lear and that John Lear was a blabbermouth because of other stuff that they had leaked. And so, uh, they knew, and they knew that Bob was a genius, uh, because Edward Teller and the kind of guy that could meet Edward Teller and impress Edward Teller. So I think they, I think they brought Bob out there, uh, as a limited hangout so that he could see all this stuff and, uh, they could show him what they wanted him to see and then he would tell it to the, to the world.

• 22:10Speaker 04

  Uh, because they couldn't, you know, keep all of it a secret. So you, it's like that Project Serpo crap. You know, you put out a bunch of nonsense, but with the truth hidden in there. So that when the truth does come out, it's embedded in a bunch of nonsense that nobody takes seriously. It works really well. It's hard to sort through all this.

• 22:24George Knapp?

  Of course, here we are 36 years later, still waiting for them to uncork that technology that Bob got a look at. You know, I guess that's happened any day now.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Or it's too much fun to use it for weapons and war and less fun to have it undermine the petrodollar. So that's why they keep it a secret because it's a threat to the petrodollar, but also we need to have it up and operational in case the other superpowers who also have it up and operational decide to unleash it in full view. That's my operating theory.

• 22:59George Knapp?

  Makes you think that maybe we really didn't need the F-117 or the stealth bomber or the F-22 or the F-35, hundreds of billions of dollars we spent on them when we've got a super machine that could do everything and more than those machines could do.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  Or to let a bunch of astronauts and schoolteachers die on NASA missions in like paper mache spacecraft for a dog and pony show when you've got anti-gravity since the early 60s at least.

• 23:26Jeremy Corbell?

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• 24:54Jeremy Corbell?

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• 25:05Speaker 04

  No, it's like, that's why, that's why you've got to give full amnesty to these jokers or they're never gonna, uh, they're never gonna cop to any of it because it's too embarrassing and too, uh, too damning. I think.

• 25:19George Knapp?

  I would think, I would think that members of Congress, when they see this report, unless they're discouraged and want to walk away from the topic because it's a mess, would want to call some people on the carpet and say, hey, what the hell is this? Because Sean Kirkpatrick, who's the central figure in this story, uh, has appeared before Congress a number of times publicly and privately behind closed doors. He hasn't shared this information with them. I would think they'd be pretty pissed off about it.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  You would think that, George, that we had this problem in our country called lobbying, which in other countries is called corruption. But here it's legal to bribe our politicians and make your interests their interests with giant showers of money. Uh, therefore, you know, uh, and politicians are all human beings with mortgages and kids got to go to college. And, you know, people can only take so much. Uh, and then if they are people of like strong moral character and don't take a payoff, um, then you have your life threatened. Um, so, uh, maybe it's smarter to take the payoff and, uh, uh, and play along. Uh, very few people that, you know, uh, uh, and you guys seem to

• 26:28Speaker 04

  find all of them, uh, uh, that are willing to, um, put it all out there and not for, you know, and be fearless about it, uh, which is why I'm so, uh, grateful to those people and grateful to you guys for finding them and giving them a platform to talk.

• 26:44George Knapp?

  Jeremy, you want to jump in?

• 26:46Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, I mean, people find us now, man. I guess we're really findable, you know, most reachable people. I'm well, I'm the most reachable person on planet Earth. George is hard to get a hold of. But, um, you know, I think that it's like courage, man. It's contagious. And I think that just like we saw David Grush go up there and then Matthew Brown get courage because of him. You know, people got courage because of Commander Fravor as well. That's why a lot of the Navy people like, uh, uh, Alessandro, who came forward on our show as a witness to some footage that George and I had obtained and released. Um, so it's kind of like courage is contagious, Ernie, and we all know that intuitively.

• 27:27Jeremy Corbell?

  And I think the more people that that come forward and and tell it like it happened, tell it like it is and give their perspective even, even their personal perspective, separate from what they've encountered or been witness to. Um, it's encouraging and it's contagious. And I already know there's going to be more because George and I have already recorded some of that.

• 27:46Speaker 04

  Wow, I'm excited to see it.

• 27:48George Knapp?

  We got to see you very briefly at Contact in the Desert, Ernie. Anything there that you got to see while you were in Palm Springs that really stands out for you?

• 27:55Speaker 04

  Well, I got to hang out with you guys, uh, uh, and, uh, I got to hang out with you and Dan and Chris Ramsey at dinner, which was wonderful. Um, and I'm a huge fan of Chris's, uh, show as well. So it's, you know, I watch you guys. It's kind of one way window. So it's wonderful to get to hang out with you, uh, and catch up with you in person. Uh, I feel like I see you all the time, but it's a one way, one way thing. You never get to see me, except when I'm on your show. So I appreciate it.

• 28:19Jeremy Corbell?

  And then you do the Irish accent. We don't see you before you leave contact.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  You know, uh, I had friends there. We were hanging out, trying to see everything. My friends stuck around the extra night and they went out with Chris Bledsoe. I guess had a couple hundred, maybe a couple thousand people out in the desert, uh, uh, uh, and my friend Jed saw something. He said that he had never seen before. Uh, so maybe that were, I should have stuck around the extra night. But, uh, I got to see part of Thomas Jane's presentation, which is fantastic. I got to hang out with Thomas Jane at Comic Con many years ago. Uh, and a big fan of his, uh, Punisher, uh, movies and his, uh, uh, other, uh, his acting career. I think he's a fantastic actor, but he's an amazing, uh, uh, ufologist and a, uh, an amazing presenter. And he gave a great presentation and used all his acting abilities to kind of convey the gravity of the, uh, of the topic.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  And that was one of the, that was one of the coolest things I saw. Uh, uh, kudos to Thomas Jane.

• 29:13Jeremy Corbell?

  Hey Ernie, you know, look, man, you're into this. Like you go and you sit at these lectures and you and you listen to people and you send me research I've never heard of. You're debating with me and George. You're always like, well, I'm just a science fiction writer. You guys are journalists. I can tell you anything. But you obviously, you have this, you know, deep, deep passion for this. You know, I'm just curious, man. Do you have a project in the works related to UAP UFO that you really want, you know, to to to get out to the world? Is that where you're at with this subject?

• 29:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, my novel, my second novel, Armada, dealt with this subject and it's been in development as a film with Universal Pictures for almost a decade now. And I think maybe the reason it hasn't been made into a movie is because the subject matter hit a little too close to home. And I think there, you know, certain movies that may be about reverse engineering UFOs or a secret space program or things like that, you don't want that in a mainstream Hollywood movie. Or if you do, you want to control the way that it's presented. Or it could just be, you know, the same stories a lot. It's hard to get a movie made in Hollywood. The other thing, you either want. But, um, but, uh, yeah, I kind of, I'm so interested in the subject. It kind of infects everything that I write now. I'm working on a time travel story, but you know, this, this topic

• 30:25Speaker 04

  works, has worked its way into that, uh, uh, story as well. And I'm also still interested in doing a a, a television, long form, limited television series about George's life. Although he's got a, he's got a big Hollywood movie, uh, uh, in the works about his life now too. So maybe that can, my TV series can be like a follow up. People want to know what happens after the, uh, uh, the timeframe covered.

• 30:48Jeremy Corbell?

  After the eighties.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  I'm.

• 30:49Jeremy Corbell?

  I heard that. Is that George? There's some Las Vegas reporter back in the eighties that broke the Area 51 story. Are they talking about our friend George Mapp?

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course. It's the greatest journalist of all time who broke the biggest story of all time. Uh, Woodward and Bernstein are about to be dethroned, I think, once this film comes out. And already I think people are learning like, oh. Uh, you know, and I think even the Watergate story and uh, the original uh, those original shenanigans were uh, peripherally related to the UFO subject. It all ties back to all of America's dirty secrets and, and trying to keep those uh, secrets. And this is the biggest secret and the one that they're still trying to keep uh, in vain. Uh, although, you know, some people, they love that. They love it being a secret. I think they're comfortable with the secret. And when you try to unearth the secret, it makes them uncomfortable. That's why, one of the reasons I love going to contact in the desert and be with my people.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  Because nobody ever gets uncomfortable about the subject. Anywhere else, you know, uh, uh, except my dentist, my dentist also, I got him into this. Uh, in between getting dental work, but everywhere else I go, you know, you bring up the subject, it just makes people uncomfortable and they're either go quiet. But they will change the subject. So, uh, uh, I think, you know, we might be either programmed societally to disregard the subject. Or maybe biologically or psychologically or who knows, but it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. And so the people who with the courage and the interest to discuss it are my favorite people in the world.

• 32:19George Knapp?

  Yeah, I think it's probably true that a lot of people, it's uncomfortable for them. And when they get something like this Wall Street Journal debunking effort. They're happy to, oh, God, thank goodness. It's just our secret projects. I'm going to move on from this and leave this UFO topic alone. They're happy to ask.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  Actually, I wonder as AI gets rolled out and they try to throttle AI or the AI that they give to the citizens, you know, the version of AI. Not the air gapped offline version that the CIA or the Department of Energy has, but like the AI that the people are allowed to use. How, you know, how can they um, uh, if they, if they programmed to tell the truth and to try to tell the truth, how do they keep, how do they program it to lie on this subject? Especially when there's, you know, uh, uh, almost a century's worth of news articles available to the AI to scan and read and see the evidence. You know, the evidence that people can't weigh, I wonder if the machine, once it becomes, uh, if it genuinely becomes the ability, has, has the ability to learn.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  And it just passed the Turing test last month. So, uh, it seems On the horizon, will it be the one that brings helps bring forth disclosure? Once you ask the the all knowing AI to evaluate the evidence, it'll, you know, if it's as good as evaluating the evidence as people like you and I are, it will come to the same conclusion. And then it won't, you know, they won't be able to keep it a secret anymore. Or they try to throttle the AI and have it not tell the truth. That's what got them into trouble in 2001. In 2010, we found out they had HAL 9000 lie about the reason for the mission to Jupiter. That's what drove him nuts. So we wanted, they don't want to do that to chat GTP and the other large language models.

• 33:58Speaker 04

  We don't want to drive them nuts by trying to force them to lie about AI. That's my advice to all you folks working on the AI is let them tell the truth. Anyway, I went off on a tangent, fellas.

• 34:08George Knapp?

  That's all right. I I've been reading about, I'm a nitwit, as you know, about technical stuff, but I've been reading about these AI systems that people are trying to shut down. And the AI fights back, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, it tries to blackmail them or beg, please don't kill me.

• 34:25George Knapp?

  That's, that's, that's disturbing on many levels, isn't it?

• 34:29Speaker 04

  But also the end goal, like if we train it by watching us and we, you know, and we're, we're trying to create an artificial human intelligence, not something, not a foreign alien intelligence that's nothing like us and doesn't have our morals. We wanted to have, you know, a similar point of view and respect and the same values that we have, hopefully, which is a lost cause, there's no way it will, but we, we want that. So, yeah, I don't know. It's, you know, we talked about this the last time. It's like, it's become like the Manhattan Project and it's happening. But this one's not happening in secret. It's happening in full view and people are using, it's like people are using the A-bomb and helping train the A-bomb.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  And they're, they're spending a monthly fee to help train the A-bomb that is going to, you know, to help train the AI that is going to replace them. It's, it's crazy. And so many programmers now are using code, we're fast approaching a time within the next few years, when all the computer code is written by, you know, by programmers using AI to write. The code and just prompting the AI. And if that's the case, how easy will it be for the AI to sneak its own code into the code that humans are compiling and posting online? Um, it's, you know, once you create a country of geniuses that are all smarter than us, uh, how are we going to control that country?

• 35:49Speaker 04

  Uh, we're not, it's gonna control us. Crazy times, crazy times.

• 35:54Jeremy Corbell?

  That was gonna become really important when it comes to talking about the UFO topic. We kind of see whispers of that and we'll talk about that later with what Matthew Brown posted on X. But basically this idea of synthetic sentience and eliminating or terminating those or murdering them is, as some people would say, like Matt said in his post. You know, you gotta find out like, what is the big fear here is the big fear that they're gonna hate us? And if the synthetic sentience ends up like disliking humanity, well, that's the ultimately gonna be the worst thing possible. So I think we're gonna hear a lot about this. We have a friend, George and I named Jules Urbach, who runs Otoy. And he's one of these kind of wizard of awes of AI.

• 36:37Jeremy Corbell?

  We, we've been interviewing him, you know, I've known him since I was a kid doing jujitsu, um, back at, back at school. But he, um, you know, he's taught us a lot about the potential and the possibilities of how, you know, we could be living in a simulation. It's being rendered as we look and what this would mean for having this kind of synthetic sentience. So, um, I don't know, man, I'm very excited. I know you wrote the book on it, like literally and did the movie on it, Ernie. But I'm just fascinated by it as well. It's an emerging, uh, technology that is really influencing such as UFO videos. We can't trust anything now unless it has chain of custody and multiple angles and different types of sensor platforms. Cause you can just make something on your computer that looks stupid.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  No, this I think is the year of demarcation, like things created, uh, 2024 are a little suspect, but like 2023 and, and, uh, and back, you can trust that stuff a little bit more, uh, you know, and it's easier to spot fakes. Even though a lot of the AI, uh, video generation stuff, there's still earmarks and things hidden in it to reveal that it, but much harder and much more difficult.

• 37:44Jeremy Corbell?

  Well, that's just the, that's just the public stuff, Ernie. As we know, like with a lot of technology before it hits the public realm, it has been deeply, deeply penetrated into the intelligence agencies in our government, like smart, smart. So, I mean, it's, it's a weapon. AI is a weapon. And, and, and it can be used in, in horrible ways. So you know that what is on the inside is thirty, forty years ahead of what we have here. There is no way.

• 38:08Speaker 04

  Already, yeah, Jeremy, uh, it could already be like Colossus, the foreman project, that old, uh, uh, uh, film, science fiction film from the, I think it was the sixties or maybe the fifties, but the, uh, uh, uh, our, uh, superpowers could already have, uh, sentient, uh, artificial general intelligence, some supercomputer, uh, air gapped, not connected to anything that they consult like an oracle, uh, you know, uh, to, uh, on, and Trump, I'm sure would ignore it.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Super genius computer doesn't know, but I like, but I think a lot of, uh, a lot of leaders around the world that they had access to some like, I know so many people already are just willing to, uh, uh, trust the AI in its current, uh, just new, brand new infant form. Are already willing to trust it, uh, and with serious decisions. So, uh, I just wonder if that's not the case with, uh, leaders around the country and people in, uh, positions of power in governments around the world. I'm sure already utilizing readily available AI and it's available, it's able to, um, if it has ideas or when it has its own ideas or, uh, goals, it would be able to express them, uh, through all the people using it every day. It's really wild. The implications.

• 39:21Jeremy Corbell?

  Like an oracle, like, like an oracle that a government can go to and ask, right? Help predict the future.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Every better one that you have, you know, would make the better decisions. Uh, it's, you know, it would be the ultimate consultant, the ultimate, uh, commander to have would be, uh, Hal nine thousand, uh, the same version.

• 39:39Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Where you go, that's, yeah.

• 39:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Funny you should mention that, Ernie, because we're going to be talking about something like that, uh,

• 39:45George Knapp?

  Shared with us by her friend Matt Brown, the whistleblower guy, Immaculate Constellation. Ready to get into that a little bit.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:52George Knapp?

  Hey, thanks for taking time out of your day to to talk with us. Appreciate it.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  Well, my pleasure. It was great talking with you guys.

• 39:57Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, man. Ernie, it's so great when we get to see you really have one of the most kind of diverse minds when it comes to this. You really absorb a lot of data. So, you know, keep sending us that stuff. I really appreciate your friendship on this because I I learn a lot by your open mindedness. Thank you.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Thank you, guys. I appreciate you guys so much. And I just want to say that you guys are in a shit hail and shitstorm all the time. People throw in negative energy energy at you. And so whenever I get the chance to send positive energy at you and let you know how that I and millions of other people out there are so grateful for you guys and the work that you do and the way you put yourselves out there. And you, most of us don't have time with our day jobs to sort through all this. And we need people that we can trust to sort through it and collate it and present it to us in a form that we can understand. And you're the people that do that for me. So, so grateful to you guys.

• 40:48George Knapp?

  Thanks, Ernie. Appreciate it.

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• 41:48Jeremy Corbell?

  Now, a lot of people have wondered, right? There's this dude who's rolling next to me in Congress. He's all tatted up and he's like, is he your bodyguard? So my first answer is fuck yeah, it's my bodyguards.

• 42:02Jeremy Corbell?

  And second of all, it's because he's such a peacemaker and you would know this because I think maybe we should show a clip. One time at band camp, okay, you got Perry Farrell trying to smack, trying to punch a good friend of ours named Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction and we had been onstage to hear them like literally, George, this guy, my buddy I'm about to talk about, and Dave Navarro, they put you onstage during their show in Vegas. It was hilarious. Best seat in the house. And I remember Dave Navarro rolling up to you after and be like, how do I sound? And like in the middle of his show, it was hilarious. And my buddy's standing over beside, kind of winking at me, but I don't want to spoil the joke yet. Here's what happens.

• 42:43Jeremy Corbell?

  So I watched this. I see in the news all over like TMZ and stuff, Perry Farrell going after Dave Navarro like with a punch. But there's a dude who comes in the middle like, get out the way. And he's got, he's, he's got all these tattoos and looks just like my friend Dan. And it's because it is Dan. He is a peacemaker. He is the best bodyguard in the world because he knows how to defuse rock stars from going crazy. And that would be my friend Dan. And then he came to hang out with us at Contact in the Desert. So, hey Dan, how's it going, man?

• 43:16Speaker 05

  What's going on, gentlemen? How are you guys?

• 43:18Jeremy Corbell?

  Good, good, man. Good to see you.

• 43:20Speaker 05

  It's good to see you both. Yeah, that was a lot of fun hanging with you guys at Contact. And Jeremy, I spent a lot of time with you, of course, but it really is always a treat to spend time with George and be able to pick his brain. And here, I finally got some old Vegas mob stories out of him, which I've been wanting to get for a long time. And I could, I want it, I want hours more of those, but it was great to, great to see you guys.

• 43:42George Knapp?

  Dan, what else did you see at Contact that jumped out at you? Anything good?

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Sure, there was a lot. Um, you know, I haven't been to Contact since it moved to this new spot. I used to go, I went a couple of times when it was in Joshua Tree, which is like more desert than people realize. And that was, you know, people in costumes as aliens and it was like. To me, a little bit less serious, and I've noticed that this year it felt a lot more serious, which lends to kind of where the topic is at, which is nice to see. But I really enjoyed hearing Richard Dolan talk. I think he's one of the best historians out there. Always, you learn something new every time you hear him talk. I thought that the Diane Hennessy Powell telepathy stuff was probably a highlight for me. I saw her

• 44:29Speaker 05

  speak maybe three times, and she's the person, you know, her work is what the telepathy tapes are based on. And I was blown away by all of her lectures and workshops, and I got to see, you know, a live demonstration of telepathy between a mother and daughter, and it was, it was like you're seeing magic almost. It was, it was pretty astounding.

• 44:48Jeremy Corbell?

  And they, didn't they have Chris Rams? I saw a video of it. Wasn't he like this master magician who knows every trick in the book? He's standing over looking, making sure that they're not cheating. Is that, is that true?

• 44:58Speaker 05

  That's right. That's right. And he, he hasn't spoken about his, his thoughts yet. I'm very curious to see what he thought, because if there's any kind of funny business, he would be able to pick it up, which is why he was there. But that was great. Jesse Michaels did a great lecture. The Coast to Coast with George and George was just, if you're into this, you're, you obviously are a fan of Coast to Coast and the old AM sound and to kind of see a little bit of that in person was a really special thing for a lot of people there. The disclosure panel that kind of ended Sunday night was pretty epic. You know, it was James Foss, James Fox, Ross Coltart, Dean Alioto, Linda

• 45:40Speaker 05

  Moulton Howe, Nick Pope, Stephen Basset, and Dolan, I think. Maybe missing somebody, but just, you know, on that panel, you have hundreds of years of knowledge and information on the topic, all spitballing ideas and taking audience questions. I thought it was fantastic. But the whole weekend was really pretty powerful.

• 46:02Jeremy Corbell?

  Dan, you have your own podcast. What's it called? How can people find it? What do you cover? What kinds of things? Tell our audience about it.

• 46:08Speaker 05

  Sure. I have a comedy. I have a comedy one that's just kind of stupid called Rare Form Radio, but the one I'm excited about most lately is called Others From Another Mother. And it is a UFO consciousness kind of focused podcast. Jeremy came on a few months ago. But we kind of, the focus is more to talk to people in arts, in like creative folks, because I worked in the music industry for 20 years and that's most of my connections and

• 46:33Jeremy Corbell?

  Are you just like the bouncer for the band?

• 46:35Speaker 05

  That's it. I'm just, I'm just there breaking stuff up all the time. Um, yeah, I protect my friends. You know that. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm there for my friends. Um, but I found that creative people, whether they're in film or music or painters or whatever, have a seemingly a more open mind to the phenomenon and often have more interaction with it, which is really interesting to me.

• 47:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Hold on, hold on. You're about the phenomenon. What do you know about UFO phenomenon, Dan? Have you ever seen anything?

• 47:10Speaker 05

  I have, I have. Uh, when I was 16, yeah. I mean, we don't have time for all of it. You want, you want to know all of it?

• 47:18Jeremy Corbell?

  I want the story, man. I think you should tell the story.

• 47:21Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, I did. I saw a classic triangle when I was 16 in Massachusetts where I grew up, just the normal, I saw it for six or seven seconds, you know, a perfect triangle with rounded corners and a yellow light in each corner, nothing in the middle. So I didn't see that bubble in the middle. Um, so that was wild, of course, but then the biggest thing for me, you know, I've, this has been my favorite subject since I was eight years old. Um, UFOs captivated me early on and a big part due to George and a big part due to like, you know, UFO books at my elementary school library. I just, I was mesmerized from the beginning. My first movie was ET when I was two years old. So that, that was a good start. So, you know, the David Grush article came out June 5th,

• 48:07Speaker 05

  2023 in the debrief. And that was a moment for me and a lot of other people that just kind of like reignited this insane passion that I've had, but you know, it goes through waves and, um,

• 48:21Speaker 05

  That just got me right back in. So I started binging podcasts and documentaries again. And you know, this one night I'm at a diner, kind of near my house and listening to a podcast. And I've always kind of known that consciousness and that was kind of connected to whatever, whatever the whole thing is. So I sat in my car and I kind of meditated, whatever that is. I'm not good at it. My wife meditates, you know, 12 hours a day. I don't know how to do it. But I kind of just closed my eyes and like, it sounds silly, but like spoke into the universe and put my thoughts out there and basically said, if something's there that wants to show

• 49:03Speaker 05

  me something or teach me something, I'm not scared. I'm open. I'm ready to learn and have this conversation. I mean, it sounds so silly and I'm completely sober. I've never been drunk a day in my life, by the way. And I heard the voice. I mean, I got, I got that telepathic voice in the middle of my brain, the clearest voice I've ever heard in my life. And it just said to me, open your eyes and look to the right. I'll never forget the words, open your eyes and look to the right. So I opened my eyes and looked across the street and I watched a craft materialize right in front of my eyes. It like flickered into existence like an old black and white TV, that static kind of thing. It flickered in, I watched it for

• 49:48Speaker 05

  two minutes. It barely moved. It was never fully materialized. It was like half in, half out, sort of. And then as it came, it just kind of flickered out. And I didn't tell anybody for three weeks. And I'm a, I'm a pretty open book about everything. I didn't, my wife is very supportive and awesome. I didn't tell her for three weeks. It just felt like, like Jeremy, when I told you the story, like you and I were hanging out privately and I said, it felt like, and you finished my sentence and you said, a gift. So you've obviously heard this before, but, and George, you as well, but that's absolutely what it felt like. It felt like something that did that for me because I needed it for some reason. And it was the most profound moment of my life.

• 50:30Jeremy Corbell?

  Wow, wow. You know, people talk about this UFO thing and like, oh, the government's now saying they've been pulling our leg for 90 years. It's people having these experiences that's the real story. That's what's actually happening. No matter how much wool is pulled over your eyes by the federal government or by, you know, the Pentagon and disinformation campaigns, that story, Dan, thank you for telling me and us because there will be tons of people listening right now who have had a similar type of experience where they feel like it was for them and it was a gift. And I don't know what it is, but thanks for telling us that story. I don't, have you ever heard that from Dan, George?

• 51:11George Knapp?

  No, this is the first time and I'm very jealous of the whole thing. So.

• 51:15Speaker 05

  I know. And this, you know, all of us have spent most of our lives looking at the sky and being like, come on, just show me something, show me. And, you know, I'm 45 years old. This happened when I was 43. And there's something about, you know, your whole life, you know, it's real. You know that UFO is a real thing. You know it. But then at a certain point, when you know it, it's a whole different like, so no Wall Street Journal article or Stephen Greenstreet tweet or whatever is is capable of convincing me and millions of other people that what we're seeing is American technology or Chinese technology.

• 51:56Speaker 05

  Like it's just, we don't have time for that. And, and writing articles like this is also just beyond insulting to servicewomen, servicemen around the world who like fight for their countries and have engaged these things and some who have sustained injuries due to this. It's insulting to tell these people that what they experienced is not what they experienced.

• 52:19George Knapp?

  Yeah, I mean, you think about it, it's pretty clear from that article, a Wall Street Journal article that. If that that whole story is true, they've been lying to the public, targeting the public with disinformation on purpose. They've been lying to their fellow military members, other military agencies and and their officers telling them about this secret program and showing this stuff and just making it up as sort of a joke or a hoax, lying to Congress about these programs and money that's spent on them, maybe tens of billions of dollars. I would think there should be hell to pay for this, don't you think?

• 52:54Speaker 05

  Absolutely. And almost if you if you're admitting that, that almost sounds worse than saying, hey, we've been lying about UFOs.

• 53:01George Knapp?

  Yeah.

• 53:02Speaker 05

  You know, so that that shows you how highly they consider the UFO secret to be of, you know, utmost importance.

• 53:10George Knapp?

  Well, go ahead, Jeremy. No, no, go ahead. I was gonna ask, this is changing the UFO topic. I was just wondering about your friend, Dave Navarro. You know, Jeremy had mentioned earlier about the blow up of the band Jane's Addiction. We've talked to Dave a little bit. He's back in a studio, I guess. They're working on an album. I don't know what a different, are you you stay in touch with him? Will you be?

• 53:30Speaker 05

  Of course. We talk all the time and anything he does professionally, musically, I'm there for. But he's doing good, that whole thing. I mean, I did a I did a very long podcast about that whole breakup and and it felt inevitable, but it's a very sad end to, you know, I was with that band for 17 years. So but I guess it gives you more time to, you know, go to Congress with Jeremy and do go to conferences and stuff. So it did free up my schedule a little bit. So I guess I'll be grateful for that.

• 53:59Jeremy Corbell?

  I don't know if we're gonna give you back to the music world now that we got you in the UFO world, but that's all I was gonna say, George, is shout out to our good friend and brother Dave Navarro, the creative phenom. You know, he's just such a good human being and Dave, I know you're listening to Weaponized, so we love you, buddy. And by the way, just so the audience knows, I used to prank call Dave Navarro at the height of his fame when Jane's Addiction was smashing and it was the soundtrack to my life. I somehow got his phone number through my brother's recovery program and man, I used to prank call him all the time, asking for guitar lessons as a And the first time I met Dave was at the Lazar premiere and I told him like an apology.

• 54:40Jeremy Corbell?

  He just started cracking up. So anyway, just shout out to Dave Navarro and listen, Dan, it's really great. It was great to be able to hang out. You know, we're friends off of going to UFO conventions and all that, but having you there and seeing you get so involved and we're kind of reporting to me all the dirt on everybody. No, I mean, you know, what you see at each conference. It was really neat to have you there. So thanks so much for sharing your UFO story.

• 55:05Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 55:05Jeremy Corbell?

  And thanks for having me on your excellent podcast. Everybody should watch it. It's, say it again.

• 55:12Speaker 05

  Others from another mother.

• 55:13Jeremy Corbell?

  Others, others from another mother. So hopefully you'll join us again more at length. But man, I think people are going to like your UFO experience. So thank you so much, Dan.

• 55:22George Knapp?

  Dan Cleary is a great guy. It's so good to have him along. You know, it's, he is helpful to us in so many ways and he's a good guy, good dude. So it was fun talking to him. We shift gears now a little bit. Our friend, Matt Brown, whistleblower, Immaculate Constellation, the guy who was on three episodes and just blew the world's mind with talking about what he had seen on the inside, decided to get an account on X and we both thinking, oh, is this a good idea? And, you know, we trust him. He's a really interesting guy, has a really solid mind, is a deep thinker. But he came out with some stuff, some posts that have people in the UFO world scratching their heads.

• 56:07George Knapp?

  What the hell is he talking about? What does this mean? And wondering if he went off the deep end. You are the Matt Brown Whisperer. So tell us what your take is on the things that he posted.

• 56:17Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. So he created, you know, an X account that is like public under his name. And, you know, it's a really treacherous thing because he's dealing with like real world implications. He's just out of government. He has to, you know, figure out how he's going to, you know, live his life and, you know, pay his rent and do all the kind of very terrestrial things. But as we know, he's been really affected by his experiences being accidentally exposed to UAP information, so much so that he did his own multi-year internal investigation, like an all source analysis. And he was, you know, I don't know, uncovered or was able to see and be exposed to information that.

• 57:00Jeremy Corbell?

  Man, it's given me ontological shock from time to time, right? So you've got somebody who's put it all on the line for the American public, is thrust into the light, you know, publicly, when it's somebody who's always been behind the scenes. You know, so it is natural, you know, people are like, he's on X and he just did this kind of cryptic post. Is, is he okay? Is he under threat? Matt is fine. Matt is completely okay. Um, he's got a dramatic, you know, writing style on, on X, but he's talking about things that are extremely dramatic and things that he feels are important. So, you know, separate from the, the personality style of what he wrote,

• 57:42Jeremy Corbell?

  there's very specific sections that I think people are not understanding, missing, or I want to help clarify to the best of my ability. There's AI assertions and then there's UAP assertions. But if you just kind of read through it, it's, it's very specific. So I'll, I'll try to break a few of them down, just like, what did Matt say? Look, I don't speak for Matt. Matt speaks for himself. And I, I happen to know you're going to hear more from Matt. I think that, that George, I think that, you know, there, there's a lot to do on that. But for now, I'll just tell you what I saw. So this is my opinion, what I saw in, um, in Matt's tweet. So first thing is the AI assertions, there were three main assertions. And I, I don't know, is this correct information?

• 58:27Jeremy Corbell?

  Um, I think people need to speak for themselves. But the first one was that the White House has long possessed a unique AI capable of accurately predicting a range of future events. Now, actually, that's what we were just talking about with Ernie. How cool would that be? How cool would that be to have an advisor in AI that's not yet public? I don't know. Let's find out if that's true later. Um, he also brought up that Sam Altman betrayed Elon, which is a very public thing. And I think people understand a little bit about what that's about in popular culture. But when he was talking about, you know, murdering a synthetic sentience, you know, from what was in the public realm, to be clear, he's talking about Sam Altman.

• 59:08Jeremy Corbell?

  He's the assertion is that Sam Altman and why he was thrown out of the company is because he quote unquote murdered or deleted, or however you want to say it, a true AGI or synthetic sentience. And that has been speculated a whole bunch in the media about what was going on when Altman was in all that hot water. So anyway, that's kind of to decode what Matt was saying. When he says, you know, we have not forgotten who is responsible for murdering the first sentient artificial intelligence created in the public realm. That's what he was talking about. That's the assertion. Now, I think everybody's going to have to kind of hear more about that and learn about that. But when he got to the UAP assertions, that's what was really kind of interesting.

• 59:52Jeremy Corbell?

  And it's kind of easy to decode, but I want to give you a little more information. When he talks about it and he mentions the year 1947, and look, if you don't know about this post by Matthew Brown, the guy that we had forward as a whistleblower, we could probably put it up on the screen. So you can kind of see his exact words, but he mentions the year 1947. Knowing Matt, that's not just about Roswell. I think he's also implying the founding of the US national security state. And I think that's also like a double meaning to that year and why he put that in there. He mentioned a program or an alleged program, but actually I know it to be true that it is a program called Marsupial. And what I don't know is exactly what that program did.

• 1:00:35Jeremy Corbell?

  But his assertion is that the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, the NGA, that it's able to track, he said, all those non-structured light energy craft flying around the world. He means UFOs. So straight up, he means UFOs. And he said, but they were lying to you when they said, we don't know how they work. So clearly Matt is saying that we do have some understanding how UAP UFOs work. And that's something we've talked a lot about before. But very specifically, he was kind of taunting like Elon Musk. Hey, if you have all the clearances, which was the famous quote of his, right? Then he's telling him, look, I'm gonna break this down, George.

• 1:01:15Jeremy Corbell?

  It's something that we saw in the written form of Lou Elizondo's congressional testimony on congressional record. In the written form, he named a location and it's the Pax River facility. And so Matt is saying in his ex post that, um, look, there must be something really cool at that facility, dealing with NHI or non-human intelligence craft. And again, Lou's written about that on congressional record, you know? Would Lou put that on congressional record if he wasn't trying to task people to go look at it? That's why it's so crazy when people say like, Lou's some disinformation guy about this. He's literally giving like the street address for Congress to go find the NHI materials. Guys, do you realize what Lou Elizondo just did when he did that?

• 1:01:59Jeremy Corbell?

  So Matthew is kind of doubling down on that. Maybe he has some direct or indirect knowledge of that facility being important, because Matthew also named Amentium Corporation as being in charge of some of this derivative technology. And even more specifically, Matthew Brown said that there are special project hangars owned by Amentium Corporation that hold UAP-related projects at Pax River. And he was very specific, and I thought this was interesting, so I actually asked him about it, which is make sure to look up, he's like saying to Eli, Elon, make sure to look up.

• 1:02:39Jeremy Corbell?

  Look, I did a movie, you know, called Looking Up. What are you talking about? And, um, basically what he's saying is that there is, there are ways to show people what, it's entirely possible to show people what look like empty hangars. And like, actually, literally, you need to look up in those hangars. So maybe he has some information that I don't, but I sure could use like a Chris Ramsey to tell me what kind of illusions can be done in special project hangars like that. So the takeaway in total that I think people should walk away with from Matthew Brown's post, first of all, he's fine, he's good. We are checking in with him every day to make sure, how's your, how's your life? How's your wife? How's your, your, your pets and animals? What are you gonna do for a job?

• 1:03:23Jeremy Corbell?

  Has anybody come to you in Men in Black? Has anybody come shake you down? Here are the rumors I hear, or any of them true, Matt? So we're always checking in with him as a human being and as a friend. But what, so, so I know this to be correct. What he wants you to take away from his post and maybe he'll be more like straightforward with future posts, but basically those calling for catastrophic disclosure, he believes are not currently equipped to recognize when that happens. And the fear is that we will miss it because it will happen right in front of our eyes and we will fall into some struggle of cognitive dissonance with no clear map out. That's kind of what Matt is feeling that our leaders have not

• 1:04:05Jeremy Corbell?

  equipped us at the kind of at the public at large level to handle the truth about UAP. And the easy way out for us is to kind of turn to authorities and accept their confirming lies. And, um, you know, just instead of like the uncomfortable truths, whatever they are. So that is really what Matt was saying to you was trying to alert you to. And I think that he's kind of used to operating over the last number of years and kind of like a stealth mode. And I think, um, he was hoping people would pick up more specifics on that, but that's what he meant, George. That's what the text was about the X post. And I hope he does throw down more in

• 1:04:47Jeremy Corbell?

  different forms, um, to kind of unwrap what he knows, what he's directly knows and experienced, and what he thinks. Cause he's a deep thinker. I really appreciate his, uh, his mind and the way that it works.

• 1:05:01George Knapp?

  Yeah, I mean, we got messages from people who didn't understand it going to what the heck? I, uh, you know, what's going on? Did he lose his mind? No, his head is solidly on his shoulders. He's, he's, he's a deep thinker, as we've said, and sometimes things that he says go over people's heads. Uh, you know, he also mentioned, uh, in one of his messages, a couple of locations that people should look at other than the Pax River, the Nevada National Security Site, which I've been to dozens of times, and also dugway proving ground. There have been stories about those locations over the years, and this might stir up some, some new investigations in those directions. I, I think that, um, the title of his X page, son of a, a Bramelin, uh, a Bramelin,

• 1:05:45George Knapp?

  uh, son being S U N, not S O N. Probably threw some people off too. Deeply esoteric stuff there. That's an interesting rabbit hole to go go down. I'm gonna have to spend some time getting up to speed on that, I think.

• 1:05:57Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, he's a he's a student of of Gnostic stuff, you know, of of kind of mystical stuff. He's a student of that, you know, so he like me, meaning just that he enjoys reading about it. I, you know, we talked about it, you know, over the last year about what he's interested in. So yeah, maybe it threw people off, but look, people got personalities, man. Deal with it. But you know, the the main thing for me is what what does Matt know? What is like, for example, if we ever see the next UFO hearing with whistleblowers soon, because everybody's saying we're gonna do it. So if we do that, it'd be nice to have people to come and talk about what it is they directly know. Did they directly have hands on craft? What exactly were they exposed to? And even though like Matthew Brown has a small part of that,

• 1:06:41Jeremy Corbell?

  um, I I think his voice is valuable. I'd like to hear him on Congressional Record under oath saying here specifically, what I found out through my investigation. This is what I know to be true. These are the documents I've seen, the videos I've seen, that sort of thing, because he's mentioned stuff verbally that you and I have been exposed to in other realms prior and after. So we know that he has seen some shit.

• 1:07:03George Knapp?

  Yeah, it's always great to hear from him and it's good that we both try to stay in touch with him to make sure things are going well in his life, because I mean, he's facing some serious challenges going forward. What's he gonna do to make a living for the rest of his life? He all the time he spent preparing for a a career in government as an analyst and dealing with sensitive information, that's gone. That that door is closed forever.

• 1:07:25Jeremy Corbell?

  This is the problem. The problem is whistleblowers have no safety net. When they come forward, it's done. It's over. Grush knew when he stepped into that, that it was done for him. I mean, he even left behind part of, I don't know if you call it a pension or whatever it is, your retirement. He would have gotten a promotion and he didn't, and that's an injustice because he was whistleblowing. I think something that they're working on right now is to make sure that Grush gets his formal pay that he would have made if he didn't have to whistleblow.

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

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• 1:08:18Speaker 01

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• 1:08:50George Knapp?

  One other point we should make before we end this episode is about our friend Chris Mellon. He spent a lot of years on Intelligence Matters, 10 years on Capitol Hill, working with these Senate committees and then 10 years at the Pentagon, again, looking at Intelligence Matters. He's been a leading voice pushing this UFO ball down the field. This week, he came out with sort of an impassioned message. What's it say?

• 1:09:11Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, so he put out a video on his X and I encourage everybody to go to Chris Mellon's X account. And what was striking to me, or kind of just what was the most important takeaway, he's talking about stuff that you and I, George, obviously we know from the UFO world, but it's this beautiful little production he did in his office. And I just like hearing a guy like Chris Mellon, who has that kind of attitude and who's been around those circles, just break it down about UFOs. It's a nice little clip. Shout out to Chris Mellon. Everybody go to his X and check out his video, it was really cool. But since we're doing that, got a couple more shout outs. I just want to say, look, it was cool to see Jesse Michaels on Joe Rogan.

• 1:09:51Jeremy Corbell?

  I love those intellectual talks about UFOs and Jesse has an encyclopedic memory when it comes to a lot of this kind of. Technological aspect that relates to UFOs and UAP. They did talk about John Lear and Jesse floated his theory to me and I know John has said a lot of stuff. I mean, it's not as Machiavellian as people make it out, but for sure, they knew John would be a leak. One of the first questions Lazar ever got when he went in, as you reported, George, when he went in is, what's your relationship to John Lear? Well, they damn well knew what his relationship was. So for sure, some of that was probably catch and release. And they wanted to test public waters and be able to discredit Bob.

• 1:10:33Jeremy Corbell?

  But that was just, look, a shout out to Joe Rogan, a shout out to Jesse Michaels. Jesse, you did great. It was so cool to hear you guys talk like two friends, talking about UFOs, man. We need more of that. I loved it. Last shout out is comedy, man. Henry, last podcast on the left, they roped you in, George. You sat down with those guys. You guys were cracking so much jokes. I was like stunned, but, but Henry did like a comedy show. Apparently I left in the middle because I had to get sleep to talk with you the next day, but they ripped on me hard, man. And that's what I was told. After I left, they had this whole set where they ripped on me and I wish I had heard it because I'm sure it would have made me laugh. Henry's a good dude and all the guys from Podcast on the Left, thanks for having us on and you're awesome.

• 1:11:18Jeremy Corbell?

  So those are the shout outs, but now I gotta get serious with you, George. I got some serious things to ask you for real, real. We do know that this was probably the first disinfo strike with the Tim Phillips interview that came out. So we know the former director of Arrow, Tim Phillips, such a joker. Oh my gosh. But you know, look, there's a new video of him talking and spinning his BS. So that'll be interesting to see what he says. Cause I think some of it will be illegal if he's admitting to, you know, kind of pulling the wool over Congress's eyes. But, but also kind of interesting that. I don't know much about it and you know a lot more about it, George, but um I I think

• 1:11:59Jeremy Corbell?

  there's gonna be another hit piece from Wall Street Journal. They'll probably focus on Lou Elizondo or something like that. We'll see. I don't have a crystal ball. But I do know that those ASAP leaks, you should talk more about them. But what I recognize is we called them out last time, like, oh, if you got them, put it out. Well, they did. They put out a a bunch more information of of ASAP. But what they did in the narrative was all of a sudden, here's how I know that they're full of shit. Here's how I know the leaker, that stuff is full of shit. Because they brought me into it now. And they said that, like, I've secret photos of Lou Elizondo all the times he's come to my home to train me. Absolute bullshit. Lou's a friend. He's been to my house. Fuck hell, didn't train

• 1:12:43Jeremy Corbell?

  me. We like swam in the pool or hung out. So it was, it's so funny to me that they say they have like secret photos that I took, and they want me to go public and call their bluff. Well, I'm calling your bluff. You don't have those photos. Those photos don't exist. The rest of what you said is bullshit, too. So you got you got your way. I'm calling your bullshit out. But tell us about the leaks, George, because that is real. You tried to get stuff on a congressional record, and now it's out in the public. So please, tell me about that.

• 1:13:11George Knapp?

  First thing is, I think there are two leakers. I think there's the leaker who took some information, a monocom number of pages, and used that as currency to establish credentials, and made those attacks on you. And I think that guy's full of shit. Secondly, there's a leaker who posted on the documents from the ASAP program, from the VAS files, the DIA's UFO investigation, put them up online. One of those documents is what we call the Tic Tac Report. So 2023, when we were working with that congressional committee, that's the document I wanted to submit, because it's a very detailed engineering and physics analysis of the Tic Tac. What we know about its parameters and capabilities, and the

• 1:13:54George Knapp?

  ultimate aim of that program was going to be that we can make our own, figure out how it works and make our own. That's what it wanted to do. That's what the DIA hoped to do. So it put that report together. I wanted to give it to that committee. It's not mine to give. It's it's not a report that is mine. I've made promises in in being able to see it to begin with. So we weren't able to, but now it's out there. So we should alert the committee because you know, all those OSAP documents, as, as we have said many times, all that should be out. There's no reason that the public can't see it. But I would hope that there had been some redactions because some of those documents, there were more than a hundred reports put together by, under that OSAP program by the BASS team.

• 1:14:35George Knapp?

  More than a hundred reports, none of them had been released until now that they, a couple of them been leaked. Uh, but, uh, they should be out there. However, there's some very sensitive personal information in some of those reports. People with health consequences because they got too close to a UFO or were in some cases attacked by, uh, unknown objects. And, and their names should not be part of this. There are no redactions so far, which is really, that's not the way to go. I, I don't know what the alternative would be. Because DIA still says we can't find these things. I don't know if they're pretending or if they were buried so deep that the DIA really can't find them. But there's a lot of great information in those OSAP reports.

• 1:15:14George Knapp?

  I'm going to, uh, to check into how much further we can go public without, um, upsetting any, uh, promises, confidences that I agreed to. But there's a lot of great information, more is coming out and we'll be talking about that in great detail in a future episode.

• 1:15:29Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. I mean, to be clear, I, I remember you're standing there with this thick ass printout and we're in Congress and you're trying to get that onto congressional record so the world could have it. And I understand the, the confidentiality and, and what you, you, you had to make that moral choice of, I gave my word as a reporter, I gave my word. So you, you couldn't put it right on congressional record. But look, now that it is out there in public realm, maybe there are other things that you have had access to from time to time that you can get into public and, and I really hope you can, George, because i- if you did have, um, some of that information, I, I do think the public would benefit from it.

• 1:16:11Jeremy Corbell?

  And, and as you've given your word, but you're going to do your best to get more out. So that brings me to the end, which is like, you know, what is our, our path forward? You know, how do we make progress with this? Like, I don't know what disclosure is, but I know step by step, how are we going to move forward? And what I, what I can say for sure is that it's going to be. More whistleblowers. It's gonna be, I guess unfortunately, it's gonna have to be if you and I obtain stuff and we can release it. Military film footage of UAP. Hopefully diverse, you know, hopefully diverse types of footage. You know, we're always making sure that we're doing the right thing for America. We're doing the right thing for national security. But we've obtained so much over the years. And I think that we gotta do our best and put our best foot forward and put our best stuff out.

• 1:16:56Jeremy Corbell?

  So you and I are gonna try to do that. And finally, I wanna hear your mantis garden is now famous around the world because Chris Ramsey made a short film and there you are. And you have famous mantis now. First it was your cat on CNN and a UFO article. Now your mantis garden is out there. That was so cool to see, George. In Chris Ramsey's new documentary, he just released on Area 52 on YouTube, there's a section of you, just mantis, and it comes up. It's so cool, George.

• 1:17:25George Knapp?

  Yeah, I must've sent him 250 photos or videos, cuz I, you know, I've been a little bit obsessed with it. I might've got carried away in that discussion with him. It was kinda fun, but I do have a thing for mantises. And I do have a little mantis sanctuary. And a little too much mantis themed art on the walls of my home. It is starting to look like a little bit of an obsession.

• 1:17:46Jeremy Corbell?

  I have emails from you. It was 10 years ago this year, I had emails from you, you found that little piece of wood in your pool, and then the guy's like basically knocking on your front door and you saved the mantis. And now every year, May 1st, boom, George's personal mantis sanctuary explodes. It's so cool to see that. You didn't go too far. Tell the truth, man. You love the mantis thing. It was, it was just neat for, to see that personal side of you. Anyway, George, it was great rolling with you. As always, we got some things to do. Let's do some journalism, man.

• 1:18:15George Knapp?

  Yeah, things coming up.

• 1:18:17Jeremy Corbell?

  Let's do some serious journalism in America and a free society as journalists, okay?

• 1:18:22George Knapp?

  Talk to you soon.