The Highs and Lows of Borderlands 4

Borderlands 4 reimagines the series with more weapons and less snark. Will that be enough to appease longtime fans and attract skeptical newcomers? The Besties chat about the many positive tweaks and the one structural decision that impacts the entire experience. Plus, Justin talks about mobile Destiny, and Plante shares his opinions on a new co-op indie game.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Griffin McElroy?

  I feel like copies of Borderlands 4 represent to me the, it's such an autumnal game, isn't it? It's an extraordinarily, when I play it, the game should come with a slice of banana bread, and a pot of chili, and just a whole pumpkin. It should come served in a whole pumpkin, cornucopia style. So spirited has it gotten me for the autumn season. Why are you fucking laughing at me, Chris? Don't act like you don't agree with this association that Borderlands, playing Borderlands. It should come with a Madden demo disc, because it's fall now, baby.

• 0:37Chris Plante?

  What?

• 0:37Griffin McElroy?

  No one is supporting this. You guys are leaving me out to absolutely dry here.

• 0:42Chris Plante?

  No, no, no. I'm trying to figure, is it because it's association with magic? Like, what is, what about it?

• 0:48Griffin McElroy?

  Color palette, the color palette of Borderlands is extraordinarily fall-like. The foliage in this game is crisp and gorgeous.

• 0:57Chris Plante?

  Ah, okay. I'm starting, I think I'm starting to see the problem here.

• 1:01Griffin McElroy?

  What's that?

• 1:02Chris Plante?

  So, when, when you play the game, does it open with the words costume quest?

• 1:07Griffin McElroy?

  Yes.

• 1:08Chris Plante?

  Got it. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So, you probably have caught on to that, that Griffin just...

• 1:16Speaker 02

  I will say that in, I feel like in the Borderlands 4 discussion today, I'm gonna be carrying the bulk of that if Griffin has been playing the 2013 release costume quest.

• 1:26Griffin McElroy?

  The writing was, the writing was funny. And so like, I assumed it was Borderlands.

• 1:31Chris Plante?

  And it kept being like, cheese, bacon. And you were like...

• 1:34Griffin McElroy?

  Bacon, cheese, yeah. And that shit absolutely tears me up.

• 1:37Chris Plante?

  Sorry, okay, Chris.

• 1:38Griffin McElroy?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39Chris Plante?

  You are thinking now of Death Spank by Ronnie Gilbert. Sorry, that's what I played this week.

• 1:45Griffin McElroy?

  Wait, what did you play, Juice?

• 1:47Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:48Griffin McElroy?

  I played Costume Quest, he played Death Spank. What did you play this week?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Go.

• 1:53Griffin McElroy?

  The...

• 1:54Speaker 02

  I learned the art of go.

• 1:59Griffin McElroy?

  I thought you were starting the podcast in the weirdest, weirdest way possible.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  In a way, I was.

• 2:07Griffin McElroy?

  Interesting, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:09Chris Plante?

  You know, I, I, I think we do need Rush. I think we actually do need his, his museum of quirks that he brings.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Hope he doesn't listen.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

• 2:39Griffin McElroy?

  My name is Griffin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

• 2:41Chris Plante?

  My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best games of the week.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  I miss him so much.

• 2:51Chris Plante?

  I know, I miss him a lot too.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  He's gone, but not forgotten. Cause he's not gone. He'll be back next week. I'm sure he had a pressing business to attend to, but you got the three of us and we're going to tell you about some of the latest and greatest in video gaming. It's a grab bag. Chris Plant, why have we done this?

• 3:10Chris Plante?

  There's just too many games. There's too many games for us to talk about and we're about to get too many more games. So we need to clear out the backlog. We need to, we need to grab the bag.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Grab the bag.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Even when Fresh isn't here, he put the rundown of what we should do in like, look behind us, see where there was one pair of footprints. That's where Russ was carrying us, even when he wasn't here.

• 3:37Griffin McElroy?

  A lot of people think Russ couldn't pick up all three of us boys and carry us at the same time, but he's actually pretty ripped up.

• 3:44Chris Plante?

  It's kind of like an ant, you know, where the legs look spindly, but they're actually very, very powerful.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, you know what? Now that I'm looking at this, Russ did want us to briefly mention that there is a new $10 Patreon tier. If you are signed up for our Patreon and you'd like to get an ad-free experience, well, we are going to be offering that to you on our Patreon. So if that's something that you have, have wanted, you could head on over to patreon.com/thebesties.

• 4:13Chris Plante?

  And Russ left us one other housekeeping note, which is he was so excited to talk about Abiotic Factor, but he's not here. So we're going to talk about that on Resties next Tuesday. But we have so many other games to talk about. How is it?

• 4:27Griffin McElroy?

  Is it a dub show? Check it out? Yeah.

• 4:29Chris Plante?

  Griffin, it is intense.

• 4:30Griffin McElroy?

  It seems like my shit. It seems like it's going to absolutely devour my, my, my time and I don't have any of that right now.

• 4:36Chris Plante?

  What if you had a game that felt pretty much exactly like Half-Life, Half-Life 2, and then also had all the addictive hooks of every survival game?

• 4:46Griffin McElroy?

  Absolutely brutal. Please don't do this to me. Please don't do this.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Please let me go in. We have to have a commercial break, guys. I'm freaking out. Please. We have to have a place for a break. Go.

• 4:57Chris Plante?

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• 5:41Chris Plante?

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• 6:26Chris Plante?

  That's protonvpn.com/besties.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  So I thought, listen, I have my whole presentation about the current state of Android handheld gaming ready that I called dibs on for the B segment this week. So I'm going to move Mr. Hathead up back into A segment.

• 6:47Chris Plante?

  Thank you, that's perfect.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  And we'll do all that.

• 6:49Chris Plante?

  It's Halfhead, but sure.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Whatever. Hey, what was that? Okay, when I first read Henry Halfhead, it triggered a memory of a game that is not, it has like hat in the title like that. But it's like one of those like 2D mystery, like very whimsical. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 7:09Chris Plante?

  Is it black and white? You're not thinking of a hat in time?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Shot, maybe?

• 7:13Chris Plante?

  Hat in Time?

• 7:13Griffin McElroy?

  Hat in Time is like a 3D platformer.

• 7:15Chris Plante?

  Or like Mr. Willoughby's time jumping hat game.

• 7:20Griffin McElroy?

  Something, something hat box?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Hat box, something hat box, hat box game.

• 7:26Griffin McElroy?

  Mr. Sun's hat box.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Mr. Sun's hat box, thank you.

• 7:30Chris Plante?

  Okay, okay, good. I'm glad that we did that.

• 7:32Griffin McElroy?

  That can't have been the show.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  God, that is exactly what I was thinking of. God, that's, oh.

• 7:37Chris Plante?

  Okay, great. That game's fun. Um, hey, Hoops, you have been playing some Borderlands 4 and some Destiny. And I'll be honest, I'm curious about one of these, but I'm not gonna tell you which.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Ooh, interesting.

• 7:51Griffin McElroy?

  I have also been playing Borderlands 4. That is the game that I.

• 7:54Chris Plante?

  Let's start with that one. I think that's a good meteor.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, start with Borderlands 4.

• 7:57Chris Plante?

  How, how is Borderlands 4?

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Hey, listen, okay, I won't tell you.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  It was, here's what I'll say. I texted Griffin last night, and I think it was like 10:30, and I was sitting on the, uh, on my chaise. Sitting on my chaise with my lap, laptop in front of me, and I texted Griffin, I said, "I don't know, man, I think this is kinda fun."

• 8:23Griffin McElroy?

  That sounds good.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Like, we're both playing Borderlands, and I texted, I was like, "I don't know, man, I think, I think Borderlands 4 is kinda fun."

• 8:28Griffin McElroy?

  You got to the heart of the matter so quickly, and that is something that only decades in this industry can provide. It's, it is, it's kinda fun.

• 8:37Chris Plante?

  It's kinda fun, alright. You're doing the same, if I, if I have this right, I'm checking my notes here. Um, you, you go around various spaces, uh, shooting and looting, collecting what could be countless guns, billions. Uh, and, and, and then people say kinda like naughty, funny things? Is that still based on the thing?

• 8:57Griffin McElroy?

  So, no, they don't do as much naughty, irreverent, South Park-style humor, and I fucking appreciate that.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the good part. That is the thing that, that's the headline for me, is like, the, the writing doesn't make me wanna die. It doesn't always hit, because like, obviously, a game has about. A hundred times more jokes than any other media.

• 9:18Griffin McElroy?

  Right.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Could ever need to have, right? And they need to land at weird time. Comedy and hard and games is really, really hard, so it doesn't always hit. But I will say it is not trying so hard.

• 9:30Griffin McElroy?

  That's it.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  To a point where you want to claw your own eyes out.

• 9:33Griffin McElroy?

  The, the, the writing and story are super duper inoffensive. And usually that's like a, like a strictly a negative commentary on it thing. But it's way better than it like just constantly joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. Right? Like open up the fire hose and never ever shut it off and feeling so exhausting. This game doesn't really do that. It doesn't do much in the writing department, but it does not make me want to. It doesn't, it's not cringe worthy.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  It's more kind of like silly, like it's kind of silly and just sort of like my, I'll give you, let me give you an example. There is one, and I'm going to be very general about this because like, who cares? But there, there is one mission that terminates with you finding a experiment gone awry. And it is basically an experiment where they have rigged the heads of one of the large beasts that are roaming the area, rigged it into machines and given it the ability to speak. So the end of this quest is you finding this sentient, like speaking animal. And, and you're immediately like disgusted by it. And the, the creature is like, ah, I can see my appearance has distressed you. This is a understandable.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  And the gag is like, he is like the extremely wise gross animal head hooked into a machine. But it's like, it's silly and it's fun. And it's like, it's a one-off goof and you move on. And it doesn't feel like it needs to like rub it in your face and it doesn't need to like walk you to a big gag or something. And crucially, it's not just a reference to an internet meme that was cool two years ago.

• 11:07Griffin McElroy?

  Yes. So, uh, our buddy, Tom Francis, who made Gunpoint and Tactical Preach Wizards game we, we love. Person who writes really funny games. A point that he's made about writing funny games is if you can make it all so just serve as even the smallest amount of like either plot or character.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Character development and you can make it where you're just kind of acknowledging what is happening in the world because games are deeply silly. Worst case scenario, people don't laugh, still serve a purpose and you move on. And it sounds like the thing that you just described, sounds so in that zone. This makes me curious.

• 11:41Griffin McElroy?

  I want to, I want to be careful because I don't think the writing is that good. Like there's a lot of, and I think that it's, some of it stems from the issue of like, there's four playable characters. And they each have their own, you know.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Who did you choose out of curiosity, Griffin?

• 11:57Griffin McElroy?

  Uh, I, I bounced through a few. I ended up on Vex. Vex was the sort of.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  I knew it. We always do that.

• 12:04Griffin McElroy?

  I like the summoner sort of like type stuff. When there's four possible responses to most of the stuff that like NPCs say, like it's going to be hard to make all of that hit and make sense with the like canned. Sometimes you get like custom responses based on what characters you're playing, but like it feels like you're storming through the same dialogue. With four different voices, four different like lines of, of dialogue in it. I don't know. I think it's hard to make that feel like really, really, really, really strong.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  It's not really, it's a solid double though, and it is not gonna like, it's not going to get in the way of you enjoying it.

• 12:39Griffin McElroy?

  No, yeah, for sure.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Is the headline for me. To talk about mechanics a little bit.

• 12:43Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  The, the four like vault hunters obviously are different, like, like every time. Just, I will talk about Vex because that was, she was the only one I played, but uh, her sort of main ability, I guess you could say is uh, summoning a duplicate of herself. What's cool is after you choose the summoning, you can decide on the fly if it's going to be a melee focused clone of you or a, which is more mobile. Or a gun focused clone of you, which is more stationary. So it's basically like you're choosing a turret you or like a.

• 13:18Griffin McElroy?

  Tank.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Combat tanky you. That you are on the fly and you can summon like a few of them into the fight at once. So you're kind of like, and their damage type. Will mirror whatever damage type you have equipped.

• 13:30Griffin McElroy?

  It's really, really, that's the only build I have used. Each, each character like in past games has like three. Different abilities that you can equip and that is the one of vexes that I have really, really enjoyed. But I also tried Rafa, who is like the speedy mech type guy. He can pop up these auto turrets on his back, which is not really the type of archetype I usually go for. And Harlow, who throws these big like gravity bombs, who I actually really liked. I just, I found the game to be a lot more. I had trouble with multiplayer and so I was mostly playing it single player and I like like a pet, pet class for that.

• 14:05Chris Plante?

  Yeah, I mean, that's, did either you get to play any co-op together? Or is the multiplayer?

• 14:10Griffin McElroy?

  Not together.

• 14:10Chris Plante?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it feels like that is the great equalizer for this game where like, the writing doesn't need to be totally perfect because the dream scenario is that you're just playing with other people and just grinding and getting more guns, right?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, well, I mean, that's not how I would typically play one of the, I mean, like, what are you saying, the dream scenario, I think, is always that, right? Like, for any co-op game, it's like that, that would be the ideal. I think that it's pretty chatty. I mean, like, if it doesn't, if it doesn't intend for you to listen, that there is a lot of like, in your ear dialogue and that kind of thing. Like, it's, it's still a lot of writing in that, in that regard.

• 14:53Griffin McElroy?

  I was just gonna ask, like, I've played so much Destiny and Destiny 2 and like Borderlands is never something that I've really particularly stuck with.

• 15:03Griffin McElroy?

  But I, it's, it's, it's never really hooked for me because I find the process of like building the character to be a little bit more, a little simplified, I guess. Like, you're only picking the one ability and then you're kind of going down those trees. This was the first game where I kind of appreciated that because it felt like as you chose your skills or whatever, they were usually a little bit, you know, build, more build defining. Like, stuff like if you kill an enemy, if you pick this tree, it'll make your skill, you know, recharge that much faster or make your fire rate that much better. But it's like substantial enough upgrades that it feels like pretty, pretty good.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  It is also interestingly what I dug is that at least with the system that I was, we were using like, it was working in concert with the gunplay rather than like in opposition to it or is an alternative to it.

• 15:54Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  It was more supportive rather than like, I'm chucking lightning bolts. Cause that to me, if I know that I can shoot lightning bolts.

• 16:01Chris Plante?

  Constantly, the guns don't.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Constantly, then like, then I don't care about guns anymore, right? Like, these are like a little bit more supportive.

• 16:08Chris Plante?

  That, that's my question is I always assumed, and again, I, I got into these with Borderlands one and two, not really three much at all. The guns are the build. Like there's so many guns that you want to be focusing on like what you're using in your weapons at any time. Do the gun, like, did it feel different? What, what is special about them?

• 16:28Speaker 02

  I would not say the guns are the bill. Like, at least for me, I felt like I was going through them so fast.

• 16:34Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  That it was not really like building around them.

• 16:37Chris Plante?

  I think in-game that becomes more of a thing. Like you find a legendary that will like keep you for a while as opposed to like, oh, I'm level 14 now. I gotta get rid of my level 13 gun. Cause it's not doing as much. Interesting.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Uh, it is really fun. Or at least I thought it was, it was a lot of fun to just kind of cycling through guns to me. I, I thought was kind of a joy. Like when you see a gun, you see every, all the information about it you could need, including like in world, you see how it is better or worse than your currently equipped item. And you can with a different button press on the fly, equip it directly to yourself, uh, store it or send it directly to junk. So like looking at it in the world, you can see, oh, this is better than what I have and like instantly put it on.

• 17:24Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  And cycling through that. And then to me, I didn't know what was going to happen when I pulled the trigger half the time. And that's really fun. Like I, I would pull it, I would start pulling the trigger and just start shooting tiny bombs. It's like, whoa, what is this?

• 17:38Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  And I would do that until I kind of got bored of it. And then I'd switch to something else and it would be a gun where like when, when you reload, you throw it and it becomes a grenade. So every time you reload, you're throwing a grenade and you can shoot it midair, shoot the gun that you just. Reloaded and that'll explode bigger for more damage. Like all the guns are like, not every gun has that level of silliness, but it is like,

• 18:01Griffin McElroy?

  But you get to learn the different-

• 18:02Speaker 02

  I was not planning on what I was gonna do. I would just start firing.

• 18:05Griffin McElroy?

  You, you, you get to learn like what the different brands of gun like feel like and what their kind of like properties are, what type of like architect, like there's one where they're all like charging. You can charge them up and fire multiple bolts like at the same time. So when you see one of those, you kind of start to say like, oh, okay. So this is the one that's kind of more like the, you know, Halo energy pistol or, or whatever. I, I think the gunplay is, is genuinely very, very fun. I am having a better time with this game than I thought I would. There is a lot of structural problems, uh, like not even talking about performance, which, uh, has been pretty bad for, for me. Uh, have you, what have you mostly been playing it on Juice?

• 18:46Speaker 02

  So I, I did not use the, I, I used, um, uh, my laptop. This is the only thing I, I played it on. Uh, I installed it. Well, no, no, sorry. I use on my desktop BC2, which are both pretty, uh, beefy, you know, in terms of like gaming.

• 19:02Griffin McElroy?

  I didn't, I didn't, uh, my setup was pretty good, like three or four years ago. So I guess maybe this is the sign of the times, but it, it, it does not run very well. And it, I, I can get it to go at 30 on the rog ally with like everything turned off, every single setting turned off and with frame gen having to be on, um, which is not, not ideal.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  It is. I do feel like games these days are good. Like they really, in an era where it feels like they should be getting better at that kind of low end optimization. I've doomed the dark ages was a really good example of this too, where like rather than it get better, they're actually getting worse.

• 19:38Griffin McElroy?

  Way, way considerably worse.

• 19:40Chris Plante?

  We've seen issues with this new Unreal Engine that like games can be really stuttery and that they're having tough launches. Also Borderlands has a history with tough launches. Like I'm curious what this game looks like in a month, once it's been cleaned up of it.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Can you talk about the structural? Like what?

• 19:57Griffin McElroy?

  Okay, so.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Probably a little bit further than me.

• 19:58Griffin McElroy?

  This is the, this is my big sort of complaint is the, it is a more open world structure. It is less like going off into.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Narrative table setting. You basically clap trap. There's a, there's a really bad guy called the timekeeper. Timekeeper?

• 20:14Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  And timekeeper and he, uh, uh, there's a resistance against him that's led by clap trap. And clap trap basically bails on the resistance as soon as he recruits you into it. And now you are the one who is leading this like.

• 20:27Griffin McElroy?

  Right.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Resistance against the bad guy.

• 20:29Griffin McElroy?

  And, and so like.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  So go around and gather, gather a coalition, right?

• 20:33Griffin McElroy?

  Yes.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Your coalition building.

• 20:34Griffin McElroy?

  And, and at certain sort of junctions, you have like a choice of where you want to go in the world. And like which of these, you know, three big bosses you want to try and take down first.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  I like the setup, by the way, structurally, that is a setup for me that works for a big, open world thing.

• 20:49Griffin McElroy?

  Yes.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  I enjoy that as a narrative structure, but yeah.

• 20:53Griffin McElroy?

  Same.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  The metaphor is fantasia.

• 20:55Griffin McElroy?

  Yes, I truly, truly do not like the open world of this game. I really, really, uh, it is not like a, you know, hub system. There's fast travel. The unlocking fast travel points is kind of annoying because you'll come to a base and it'll be like, you gotta get to the computer at this base and you'll unlock it as a fast travel point. But sometimes the thing you need, like the computer terminal's not there yet because you haven't gotten far enough in the story. Like that happened to me a couple of different times. The like nav, like auto nav beacon thing that you can activate, like will show you the path you can go on. But it didn't always, it worked like half the time for some reason. And there's also like, you have a grappling hook.

• 21:36Griffin McElroy?

  You have a double jump with like a glide boost and like, it feels pretty good to move around the world. Except like you will reach a point where it wants you to wind up this mountain path to get to the, to get to the next thing. When it's like, you've given me a hover bike and a grappling hook and a booster jet. And it's like, oh, this wall is just a little too high to mantle over.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, man, it's like. It feels pretty good. So the glide jump is like super early on and the way that they handle that is like if you're elevated at all, you can do a pretty good speedy jump forward, right? So it's kind of like a hover float forward. I'm assuming that you get better distance and speed on that as you go in the game, but like they don't get so that like lateral movement in that sense feels good. They don't have good tools. At least I have not found any to the point I am where like upward movement feels good. You know what I mean? So you'll often see like crossing a hundred yards is not a big deal, but if you see something that's like 10 yards high, it feels like

• 22:37Griffin McElroy?

  Like, oh, fuck, I gotta go all the way over there to up this one ramp.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  In a way that really

• 22:41Griffin McElroy?

  It's insane.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  It feels like the movement, it really breaks the like the flow because you're like, well, I need to go find a high point to get to, to get around.

• 22:51Griffin McElroy?

  I was going through a base.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Go up very well.

• 22:53Griffin McElroy?

  I was going through this base, like trying to find these supplies that have been stolen by the order and I missed one at some point and the it's, it's, this situation is such a pain in the ass to like find the little mission objective things you have to pick up while you're in a big area because it just kind of sucks at telegraphing that stuff like, and that's not complaining because I can't figure something out. It's complaining that like this little PDA that you had sitting on this one terminal on the fourth floor of this thing. And so you end up on the ground floor because you passed the thing and it's like, if I want to go back up there and get that, I'm have to run all the way through this wonderful maze that they've created instead of using my actual grappling hook that they give me at the first two minutes of the game to go wherever I want with it. It's, it's just such a chore

• 23:36Griffin McElroy?

  and it really makes me miss the more siloed off like, just let me play this level. Let me go after this, this, this one boss in this self-contained thing. I, I, I feel like that stuff has gone to the game's great detriment.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Griff, I think that you, I'm, I'm thinking about something now and I feel like they, where they kind of stumbled is the times where they've tried to incorporate the more open world into the mission design. Like, I'll give you another example and this is very early on too. There was, I had a mission to go find an egg, like an exquisite egg is what it was. And it was like a good three minute walk from my home base, the, the quest giver.

• 24:14Griffin McElroy?

  Yes.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  And I do the, I go like a three minute walk out and I find the egg and that pops up in my HUD. And I kill the guys around it and I, I have to grapple the egg to pick it up. And then I'm like, holding it and it's giving me the option to like, throw it. I'm like, it's a held object, right? And then the, the quest does not at that point, tell me where I need to go next. It doesn't like, update my map, but I do know I need to take this back to the quest giver, right? So I fast travel back and then I, I'm no longer holding this egg. And like, no one, there was no mention of this. There was no like, carry that back to me and don't, like, nothing like that.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  It's just like, oh, you wanted me, you really just wanted me to walk with this egg?

• 25:00Chris Plante?

  Now, you know who would have never let that happen? Hideo Kojima. He would have said, we will have four good cutscenes that talk about why you cannot carry the egg.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  I remember when I tried to fast travel with the egg. It's, it's. Thank you, living dead man.

• 25:17Griffin McElroy?

  So much of it is just so, so poorly executed and it sucks because there's so much about Borderlands that I, I don't know, that I think characterizes the franchise in a good way that is here. And I've had, I have had a lot of fun in the moments where it's gotten out of its way and just let me like, run around a battlefield, dropping little ghosts all around and blasting people with, with fun guns. But then as soon as it's like, alright, make your way back to this guy, but the, uh, uh, the fast travel's broken, so you're gonna have to ride your bike through nothing for five minutes. It's like, man, I don't know.

• 25:49Chris Plante?

  Yeah, that's where the co-op part comes in of like, a little easier to stomach when you're just hanging out and talking with friends.

• 25:56Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, for sure, for sure.

• 25:57Chris Plante?

  I'm not, I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying like, I feel like that is how it has gotten by.

• 26:01Griffin McElroy?

  It frustrates, it frustrates me because I've never really, one of these games has never gotten its hooks in me and I, I feel like there's always like, something really, really fun and great and pure and good at the heart of the thing that it is kind of tarnished a bit by the stuff surrounding it. So it's frustrating.

• 26:18Chris Plante?

  I am very curious to play this. I'm, I'm gonna download this, not while we're recording, but afterwards for my internet speed. I also want to, I, I usually don't do this, but I, I should issue a correction on something. Justin said, he said that it was Living Dead Man who does the fast travel. And we actually know that it is Egg Travel Man.

• 26:40Griffin McElroy?

  Egg Travel Man, thank you.

• 26:42Chris Plante?

  So I just wanted to make sure that we got it right.

• 26:44Griffin McElroy?

  I saw the corrections department hand you the letter. I thought that was so smooth and seamless.

• 26:48Chris Plante?

  People think that that's a waste of money, the five people that I have full time living in my house.

• 26:53Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, because people say you guys are never, ever wrong about anything fucking ever. And it's like, yeah, guys, thank you.

• 26:59Chris Plante?

  That's why. Um, y'all want to do just a kind of a short catch map on what's going on with Destiny? And then I'll tell you about Henry Halfhead. How about we take a quick break and then we can talk about that?

• 27:11Russ Frushtick?

  Okay.

• 27:14Russ Frushtick?

  This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Lisa. You know, we are starting to get into the cooler months of the year. And you know what I love in the cool months of the year? An incredibly cozy mattress that you can just cozy up into. You got the blankets and everything. And I will speak from experience, but maybe not my experience. Because Lisa sent me one of their mattresses. But it was timed as such where actually my son, who was becoming a toddler and needed like an actual bed, needed a mattress. So we had him use the Lisa mattress. And every time that I get into that bed to read him a story at night,

• 27:55Russ Frushtick?

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• 28:36Griffin McElroy?

  When you say, "We're gonna talk about the state of Destiny," we should make it clear that you're not saying Destiny 2, cuz I have, despite the fact that I still have so many people in that community who are like, "This is the patch. This is the patch, baby. We're ready."

• 28:49Speaker 02

  No, Chris Plant, we're talking about Destiny Rising, a discreet video game.

• 28:56Chris Plante?

  Destiny Rising, and I'm definitely not Googling it right now.

• 29:01Griffin McElroy?

  Don't do it, don't do it. Why would you Google it? I'm right here. I'm gonna tell you about it. It's the whole conceit of the show.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Destiny Rising is the first mobile Destiny game.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  It's on Android.

• 29:14Chris Plante?

  Okay.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  You can play it.

• 29:15Griffin McElroy?

  You're fucking crushing so far, dude.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  It is just like Destiny. You get guns, you shoot bad guys who are the flood, you know.

• 29:29Chris Plante?

  Okay.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  Basically. You know, basically the flood. You are having a Destiny experience that looks like Destiny. It looks great, actually. I played it on a tablet with a, well, hold on one second, because it will color this a little bit.

• 29:48Chris Plante?

  Well, while Hoops is doing that, Griffin, honest question, is it fucking insane that I have not heard about this? Is that weird?

• 29:57Griffin McElroy?

  I don't think it's that weird, no. I mean, if you're not, I certainly haven't seen it plastered all over the community as much as like a, you know, Diablo when that first launched.

• 30:09Chris Plante?

  Okay, okay.

• 30:10Griffin McElroy?

  I have only heard about it when I like see, when I check in on Destiny 2 with some of my content creators who I followed when I was playing the game and wanted, who will be like, "Here's what's new in this update." I've only sort of seen them talk about it, specifically in terms of like, "Hey, player base of this game is, to some extent, migrating over to Destiny Rising," and they do not have a great solution for that.

• 30:31Chris Plante?

  Interesting. Okay, okay, okay.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  That is the le- I mean, that is the, the amount of, the extent to which they have captured the feel of Destiny is like, it, it feels like playing Destiny. I mean, like, I, I don't know. I was playing on a tablet with a, the Game Sir G8 Plus, one of their like retractable doodad kinda guys, you know what I mean? So it's like a full-size controller on a nine-inch tablet. There's your like, your login bonuses. But you, once you're in and you're playing, it, it feels like Destiny. It feels like a Destiny game. Like the, it looks indistinguishable. There's a hub world-

• 31:09Griffin McElroy?

  It was not made by-

• 31:10Speaker 02

  No, it was made by NetEase.

• 31:13Griffin McElroy?

  Okay.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  And that's kinda, that's kinda the second half of the story.

• 31:17Griffin McElroy?

  There's a little, a little gotcha, a little gotcha element.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  If you, if you boot it up and you play it, you are going to say, this feels a lot like Destiny. And then you're gonna notice that your, your character has a name. And then you, you will start to, you realize that like, not all the weapons are accessible to all the characters.

• 31:34Griffin McElroy?

  Hmm.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  And then you encounter like, other characters, and then they let you play as those characters. And you're like, well, this is kinda cool. It's a whole different character. And, and it's, rather than you building a like, your guardian that is your character, you are finding guardians that have a discrete ability set and a weapon set that is specific to them.

• 31:58Griffin McElroy?

  Interesting, okay.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Okay, so, the first one is Wolf, and that's kinda the character you like, create. And then you meet other characters, and there are some missions that you have to do as Wolf narratively. And then there are other missions that you don't have to play as Wolf. You can play as these other characters.

• 32:14Griffin McElroy?

  Is it like an Iron Wolves sort of situation, or unrelated Wolf?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  N- I-

• 32:21Griffin McElroy?

  Okay, nevermind.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  I don't know. Uh, that one guy, there's, there's people that, a Cora Rae is in it. Um, and, but it's, she's younger, so I think it's like, earlier in Destiny Rising. It's like, earlier in the, in the timeline. She's one of the collectible characters. Like, you can get her, basically.

• 32:39Griffin McElroy?

  Okay.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Collect her.

• 32:41Griffin McElroy?

  When you say collector, is it through a, is it through a gotcha sort of draw?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Machine- This is where, this is where- For me.

• 32:50Griffin McElroy?

  It's all starting to come together.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I kinda hit a wall.

• 32:52Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  So when you start playing Destiny Rising, it will, it very much is like, it feels like a Destiny game on a, on a, in a portable setup.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  And that's very cool. The, the big challenge with that is, and this is kind of immutable, but the, the Destiny experience, if, I don't feel like it's necessarily maps great to like the impulse gaming of like, I have two minutes and I'm just gonna game, right? Because

• 33:22Griffin McElroy?

  Right.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  I, you know, there, first of all, you gotta have online access. Second of all, like, you get, there's a login procedure and then like, what, what mission was I doing? So like, you know, whether or not that you have like a setup where, you know, you're gonna be in front of an android.

• 33:38Griffin McElroy?

  The idea of sitting for five hours on a Saturday night with a group of like five Welsh strangers who've been best friends their whole life and like cranking through Last Wish is, it seems tough to imagine in that format.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  So that, that is kind of immutable. The, the other thing is, the, the thing with the, the characters and stuff, that is gonna be, I mean, for me, the thing that bumped with Destiny and the reason that I lost track of Destiny really is anytime I tried to go back, I would be so stuck trying to remember all the different currency and the systems of value. And like, what is this worth? What is that worth? What quest was that? Whatever. And I feel like,

• 34:26Speaker 02

  to, to me, when I got hit with those first few walls of like, gotcha, garbage. I mean, to me, that's what it feels like. If you're into gotcha games, it is probably a lot more parseable to you, but I sent a screenshot to, like, I showed Griffin a screenshot and, and both him and Travis were like, whoa, like, it stings the eyes, the amount of like, so now we've gone from a system where like, they are

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Kind of like intentionally, maybe obfuscating those value systems because they don't want you to know. Or be thinking about how much things are costing. So it's like, to me, more of the stuff that alienated about Destiny.

• 35:01Chris Plante?

  Sure.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  There's like more stuff to keep track of like that. More timers, more, everything's glowing, everything's glittering. You know, it's that casino aesthetic that so many gotcha games have of like, push this, they want you to hit this. It's not imparciable, really, like what you can and can't have access to right then, right? Because they want the distinction between doing it for free and doing it for money to be so faint. You know, they don't notice that you're doing it.

• 35:27Chris Plante?

  And this is becoming more and more the norm in free to play games. I feel like every time I hop into one of these, um, it's great for me as somebody who's very fine playing a game for 10 or 20 hours and feeling like I got my money's worth, um, because increasingly they will let you have that window entirely and get you hooked in and then be like, oh, now, now here's the real, the real.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  But it's, that seems so weird to me because everything in that market has, it feels like funneled into the same exact business model for all of these like free to play games, regardless of like scale or genre or whatever. And once one of those, once you see the shape of one of those, because it got you fucking good, I feel like it really stops you from ever, as soon as you see it, you know to recognize it and be like.

• 36:13Chris Plante?

  Mine was, so like Zenless Zone Zero was my, my big awakening for that. Where I was like, holy shit, this game's incredible. How did they make this a free game? And then after, I think it was like the 15th hour, I was like, oh, that's how. Because once you are fully committed, yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:32Chris Plante?

  Yeah. Are you gonna keep playing?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  I, I can't. I, I, it's just that those systems to me are not, to me, it's about like, what is, like, what is a fixed resource for you? And like, I don't have the time to learn those systems. Like, I, I just would rather play. I don't really have the time to engage with that level of like.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  I already feel like RNG was kind of the most frustrating aspect of Destiny in a lot of ways. For me, at least, I like the parts that were methodical. I like the parts that were challenging, but I never really liked the parts that were random. And this feels like a lot more of that. And a lot more like demanding of your time to keep up with all the different, you know. It feels like, I don't know, I feel like I went through the arc with this game that I went through with Marvel Snap, but Marvel Snap took me several months and this took a few hours. You know, where it was like, oh, God, I'm over, this is too mu- I can't keep track of this anymore. Like, it's too much for me. And this got there like so quick.

• 37:32Chris Plante?

  I got some great news for you, which is if you are just craving another NetEase game, they publish a lot of games like this. But every once in a while, they publish a game that you can just buy and play. And earlier this year, they released a game called Rusty Rabbit. And I would like to read the synopsis to you from Wikipedia.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Please.

• 37:48Chris Plante?

  The game, the game takes place in a post-apocalyptic world where humans have long abandoned Earth, leaving it to rabbits who have developed a civilization where the books of Peter Rabbit are seen as holy. And you play as a rabbit who is a badass and wears a sick jacket and basically is Mr. Triller.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, alright.

• 38:08Griffin McElroy?

  Heck, yeah. Yeah.

• 38:09Chris Plante?

  It's great, right? Video games are back.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Um.

• 38:12Griffin McElroy?

  In a big way.

• 38:13Chris Plante?

  Griffin, you have any other thoughts on Destiny before I tell you about Henry Halfhead?

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, I didn't play Destiny Rising. I watched Destiny play it. And it does. I would also say that I think the fact that this is only on Android right now is probably limiting the conversation.

• 38:26Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I will say, though, if you have, if you're someone who has gotten one of those Android, you know, gaming handhelds, this is a great app. There, you know, there's not a ton of stuff on Androids. It's a great application of that.

• 38:39Griffin McElroy?

  Sure.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  That, that overabundance of hardware that you have.

• 38:42Griffin McElroy?

  Uh, I want to hear about Henry Halfhead, please.

• 38:44Chris Plante?

  Cool. Henry Halfhead is also a co-op video game that I played solo. But unlike Borderlands and Destiny, it is a novella of a video game. It is two hours, like, tops. Uh, and knows exactly what it wants to be. Down to the title, you are Henry and you are half of a head. Specifically, the. Top half of it from the tippy top down to the nose and then it just ends. That's all of the head and the game is.

• 39:11Griffin McElroy?

  That's all you really need, man. I've always said the rest of head is just sort of superfluous.

• 39:17Chris Plante?

  I think that's true if like the entire bottom of head below nose could be also mouth. Cause I would hate to lose.

• 39:23Griffin McElroy?

  Sure. Mouth does. Yeah.

• 39:25Chris Plante?

  You're like, just kind of like lay on top of things and just suck them up like a little vacuum.

• 39:29Griffin McElroy?

  Kissing the ground all the time. That's gross, man.

• 39:31Chris Plante?

  It's gross. Along with being a top of the head, Henry also has basically the Mario Odyssey power to zip into every object. Effectively every object in the world. So it could be like, you want to hop into a chair? Sure. You can go for it. You want to zip into a color pencil that's lying around? Do that. You can even doodle on the ground. You can hop on a match and then you can light a candle. That you could also hop into or there are like puzzle pieces maybe lying around. You could hop into them and put them together. There is no like point system, um, though you unlock like hats. Because you're, you know, that's about as much as you want to wear.

• 40:10Chris Plante?

  And then the motivation is the story, which is, I feel bad saying this because the person is either British or Australian. But has kind of that like beginner's guide sort of thing where it's like, we're going to narrate a story while you kind of like. Screw around in this space. And the story is just the story of an entire life. So you start as a baby and you're in. It's kind of to really sound like an asshole. It's like a Brechtian set. There's no um. Actual world that you're in. It's just kind of like a big white space. And then you know what rooms you're in by the props and furniture that are in it. So you are awake in a um.

• 40:53Chris Plante?

  Cradle and there are like baby toys on the ground. And you solve these kind of like very, very, very simple physics puzzles. In that space, like connect the puzzle pieces, right? Climb to the top of a.

• 41:08Chris Plante?

  Clothes drawer. And then, once you do that, poof, a door appears in the middle of this empty space. And beyond that door is also new furniture that conveys a new room. So maybe it's a kitchen, or maybe it is your parents' bedroom. And each time you go into these new spaces, you solve a few more physics-based puzzles. You get a little bit more narration about Henry. And your character also gets older each time. So you are going from like, basically, cradle to ol- older, older. Without getting into too much spoiling. It is unbelievably simple. To the point that, at first, I was like, oh, this is a game for babies.

• 41:52Chris Plante?

  Not like as a pejorative, like, quite literally, this is a game where you, I could play it with a very young child. And we could learn about objects, basically, like,

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:03Chris Plante?

  Oh, this is a candle, and we get to play, and here's what it's like to draw around the room. And here are these little safe spaces where you can learn about all these different, very simple objects. And play with them. But, that's not the case. I mean, you can and definitely should play it with a little kid, I think. But where the story goes ends up being much more adult. And the idea-

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Wait, is it adult where, like, okay, so-

• 42:29Chris Plante?

  Yeah, what's Henry doing?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Thank goodness you're here. Thank goodness you're here, looks like a game for babies. And then they throw a secret peen in there when you are in no way ready for it? There's full peen in that game, and it is not for babies. So is there full peen in Henry Halfhead?

• 42:42Chris Plante?

  No, it's not like-

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Is it game Henry Halfhead full dong?

• 42:45Chris Plante?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, there's not, there's not, I didn't unlock a secret full dong.

• 42:52Chris Plante?

  But that could, you know, that could come at any point.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  They're just peeing and I'm just saying in I did it here. They just have a penis in there.

• 43:03Chris Plante?

  No, no, no, no, I get it. It's not adult in that way. It's more adult like. Uh, at first the narration is like, Henry got out of his, uh, bed and he played with his toys. And then later it's like, Henry is at work and it's extremely boring and he has no sense of self-worth. And you're like, oh, Jesus. Okay. Now I see. Now I see. Now I'm playing.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Adult themed.

• 43:25Chris Plante?

  Adult themed. Yes. Um, it is a game. I wish I had played co-op for that reason. Because again, it is so simple that I think the pleasure is discovering what all the little objects do. And if you can do that with a friend, it's like, whoa, I can take control of this. Look at what the hell I'm doing. Yeah. What's, what's it look like? Co-op is the exact same. There are now two Henry half heads and you're playing the exact same game. The narration is still playing over it. It's just two people solving the little physics puzzles at the same time. But again, because the game is almost entirely about discovery of what happens when you control these different objects.

• 44:10Chris Plante?

  I think that's more, that's more pleasurable if you have someone to share it. So at one point you can, um, you find a cake relatively early on and it's like, oh, I can embody the cake. Cool. Oh, when I hop the cake off of the platter and throw it on the floor, it creates a chocolate stain anywhere it goes. Oh, that's a cool, nice surprise. Oh, if I embody the, uh, uh, kitchen knife and I swing at the cake, I can chop it into individual pieces. Oh, now I can embody those pieces and I can eat the pieces. Like, is any of that actually doing anything towards a greater goal? Absolutely not. Is it like fun little surprises all the way down for sure?

• 44:54Chris Plante?

  Which again, I think is just more fun with another person.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 44:59Chris Plante?

  Alone, I was like, oh, that's cute. I kept, I kinda kept, you know that, uh, the knowing laugh, right? Uh huh.

• 45:06Chris Plante?

  I was like that the whole way through.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  I like that cute laugh, Chris.

• 45:11Chris Plante?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 45:14Chris Plante?

  It's good. I like it. I think there's a sort of...

• 45:21Chris Plante?

  How do I say that? I truly do not mean this in as negative a way as it will sound. There's a person who likes those co-op games that we don't like. Where they have stories that are like, you have like some mild existential awareness by the end. Where it's like, hey, you learned some human drama while playing a video game. And that really resonates for them to have that experience, to do something that is like tactile and play. And then also like teaches them what, you know, like a pretty like standard short story would teach them. If you are that sort of person, you will love this game. The story is solid and you will come away from it with that little like glean of, oh, my time on earth is precious.

• 46:07Chris Plante?

  So I think you should like chase that. If you're looking for a two hour version of that sort of game to play with a friend, this is 100% it.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Is this also a forewarning that if you're the type of player who just wants to play a silly game where you make a man's head jump around and turn into cake? That it's gonna get, it will have existential messages.

• 46:27Chris Plante?

  I think what I would do is I would just turn the volume off if you want that. You can still have a great time. You can still be doing all sorts of silly things without a little half head.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Love it. You know who I don't want to turn the volume off on? Our beloved listeners. You know, I like to hear from them. Like, give me an example.

• 46:44Chris Plante?

  Wow.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  From, this is from Connor. Connor says, usually I scoff when Russ is like, don't tell me anything because I'm the opposite. I love to get on the hype train, but still discover stuff like in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Went into Silk Song and I'm floundering and haven't made progress in days, but I've also found so much stuff that I've been absolutely shook by. I resent my scoff. This shit is fire and you shouldn't look up guides if you can't help it. Wow Connor, took us on a whole journey there Connor.

• 47:11Griffin McElroy?

  But now people know this is how Russ gets his hooks in you. This is how Russ corrupts your... Now, I feel the same way. I've tried to stay fairly guide-free on Silk Song, except for a couple of bosses who were real pieces of shit. I've tried to... But I'm also, I'm so scared with this game that I'm going to pass a point of no return where I will lose access to the stuff that came before it. And I don't know that that's an entirely justified fear. I think it's just a scary game that's got my paranoia going overdrive.

• 47:50Chris Plante?

  This one is from Forrest. "Dude, I just wanted to thank Griffin for sharing Caso. I'm an aging skater who's always looking for fun skate media to consume when my bones and muscles tell me to stay on the couch and away from the park. I was really into Vice's King of the Road series, but they canceled it a while ago. Caso has the same kind of skate contest meets game show vibe that is just a blast to watch. So, thanks, Griffin. Keep it gnarly and keep hitting those Benny Mongas and Casperanas and don't go Mongo." Yes, those are real skate terms.

• 48:22Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, clearly, I know those are real skate terms. Why would you think I would need you to clarify that those are skate terms? Because I know them.

• 48:30Chris Plante?

  Clearly.

• 48:31Griffin McElroy?

  I just pulled off a Christair! That's... Now, you're showing your hand too much. No, Caso rules. "I love any show where people execute their remarkable talents in the company of other people who have also invested their entire lives into developing those specific talents." That shit's good, especially when it's silly. Like, you know, grind this rail that does a loop-de-loop. Like, sure, man, fuck yeah, all day.

• 48:56Chris Plante?

  I love it. I love it. Hey, should we dig into some honorable mentions?

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. What else have you guys made time for this week?

• 49:05Griffin McElroy?

  I've been playing a lot more Silk Song. I don't know how much we wanna sort of expound about it, nor do I know how much-

• 49:11Speaker 02

  Tell me, how has your experience evolved?

• 49:14Griffin McElroy?

  Uh, yeah, pretty fucking good, man. I've got about 32 hours in the game, I wanna say. And I am in sort of the last leg of it, it seems like, where it's like now you can go around and have pretty open access to whatever, and now it's just go find the stuff. And it provides some ways to like, help you do that if you are a completionist. Some of these last few bosses and sort of gauntlets have gotten so hard that I feel like my progress through the game has slowed pretty dramatically, and it requires a level of investment, of time investment, to like, get in that flow state, to like, learn all of the boss's

• 49:57Griffin McElroy?

  different attacks, so you know how to like, respond to it. And that is kind of tough to promise it or any game all the time for me these days.

• 50:09Griffin McElroy?

  But it's still just like, god, it's going places that are so remarkable. The writing is really, really, really strong, like, really extremely strong. There's been like, exchanges between Hornet, who they develop as a character like, so well, and other people that I've been, I don't know, really, I have really, really admired. And I think it is a very special game, just like Hollow Knight before it. And I'm definitely gonna keep pounding away.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Did you have any issues? I wish in the text that it was a little bit eas- I agree with you about the writing. I wish it was easier to immediately tell who was speaking.

• 50:50Griffin McElroy?

  There's little glyphs on top, and Hornets, you know, will have the two ears coming up. It is, it is hard to, I do wish that they surfaced that maybe a little bit better, but that is-

• 51:01Speaker 02

  A ten of the letters or something would be appreciated.

• 51:05Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, no, I think it, I think it rules. I still don't know if I want 100% it. Like, I feel like I'm going to be playing for quite a bit longer if I do that. I've been doing a ton of shit and I've found a bunch of stuff, but if I really wanted to clean up the map, it, you know, I don't know if that's something I can give the game right now, but I, I think I'm getting close to seeing it through, and I, I think it's really fantastic.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  I love it. Um, Hoops, what have you been up to?

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Um, gosh, what did I?

• 51:37Chris Plante?

  We play a lot of games.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  You know what's good is Alien Earth.

• 51:42Chris Plante?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Alien Earth is really good. I started watching it because I, I feel like Russ and I, and I don't know playing, I don't remember if you go in this camp, but like Russ and I tend to lock ourselves in these like Noah Hawley TV show prisons where like no one else is watching, but we have to be the ones who are carrying the torch. Like we are watching these things where it doesn't feel like there's a huge conversation about it. I think that I just am not exposed. I have realized that I am not in any way exposed to the conversation about TV. I don't know what people are talking about. I have no clue. So I, but I picked up Alien Earth because I like Noah Hawley shows.

• 52:16Chris Plante?

  Yeah, I loved Noah Hawley shows until there was a very final turn in a season of Fargo that was so preposterous. I was like, I can't do it. I can't, I can't keep doing this. I can't keep falling in love. Um, but I did check in on Alien Earth because I was like, I gotta know what, what, what's a twist? What is, Noah Hawley's show is always about something. It's not just gonna be about aliens. And boy, howdy, was I excited to see that this is a show about how very young social media CEOs prey on even younger populations to basically make their riches and ruin the world.

• 52:59Chris Plante?

  And I don't know if it keeps going that direction, but that is where it is heading fast in the first episode or two. And I am very curious about it.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the premise, uh, I think is so cool and gripping and like.

• 53:14Griffin McElroy?

  What is the premise? I, I, I love Alien and I want to watch this show. I just haven't.

• 53:17Chris Plante?

  It's wild.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Okay, so the, here's the setup. The, you know that there are corporations that are vying for.

• 53:23Chris Plante?

  Waylon Utani, etc.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and all those. So there's a new one called Prodigy. And what Prodigy is, their, their big focus for the past 10 years has been, their research focus, secret, super secret, has been they are, rather than synths, which are androids or cyborgs, which are fusion, they want to transfer human consciousness into synths. Synthetic bodies to make hybrids, right? And these hybrids would be super strong, super fast, almost vulnerable. But they would have the mind of a human. What they discover is that adult minds reject it and that only children's minds will will make the process work. So they find kids who are terminally ill and offer their parents a chance to be transferred into these synthetic bodies in a secret

• 54:10Speaker 02

  program where like no family has any idea what has happened to them, et cetera. Right? So the first girl that this happens to, she begins going by the name Wendy and there is a an overarching Neverland theme that is like being projected onto the to the kids and the whole this whole story really. But basically, this first girl has a brother who she loves very much and she continues to monitor with her like, you know, abilities. And there is a crash, a crash of a spaceship on the planet that she lives on, which is

• 54:51Speaker 02

  the planet that destroyed, that's the earth from the title. And there's a crash there and she realizes that her brother, who is a medic for the prodigy corporation, is being sent to help at the crash site.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  So the girl goes to the person who runs it and says, send us, send me and the rest of the Lost Boys. We're ready. We we want to go help at this crash. CEO thinks that since realizes that since the ship is Waylon Yutani and it is loaded with trillions of a trillion dollars worth of like research. Right. He's gonna, he's gonna send in the Lost Boys to get it. Okay, cool. That's his reasoning and she's going in to save her brother and. You'll never guess what is on the ship Griffin.

• 55:38Griffin McElroy?

  It better not be Zemo Norfs, or I'm gonna lose.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Dude, it's fucking Zemo Norfs. It is Chocoblock with Zemo Norfs.

• 55:45Griffin McElroy?

  I am so sick of these guys and their weird tongues.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  It's the worst possible thing, cuz they're not in space. In space, no one can give a shit cuz it's on Earth now, man.

• 55:56Griffin McElroy?

  They can't hear you on Earth.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  I live here.

• 55:58Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, no way, dude.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Zemo Morfs, maybe in Mars?

• 56:03Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, sure.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Maybe?

• 56:04Griffin McElroy?

  Even that's a little too close for comfort.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  But not on Earth.

• 56:07Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah, it sucks.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I. So the CEO is greedy, and he wants, basically, he wants to take the Zeno Norse for himself. And doesn't want, and it is corporate warfare to try to control the, so this is why it is a story and not an isolated, like.

• 56:23Griffin McElroy?

  Scary ship experience.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Scary ship experience. The ship comes to Earth, quite literally.

• 56:28Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Like, it's pretty direct. Here is what, how it intersects.

• 56:32Chris Plante?

  I, I, uh, I don't, I'm pulling afresh here. I don't want a reaction. I'm just gonna say a thing out loud, but what, what really got me.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  I, by the way, that was a lot of story. It was maybe the first half of the first episode.

• 56:43Chris Plante?

  Yes.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  It is, that is.

• 56:45Griffin McElroy?

  They chuck through it.

• 56:46Chris Plante?

  I am skeptical of brand mashups, especially after all the Marvel stuff. If Predator does not show up at the end of this show, I will be crushed. I'm just putting that out there because there are all sorts of aliens on this ship. And then there's that new Predator movie coming out where it is about the Predator just hanging out with a synth that is Waylon Utani, which like, they're, they're, they are building towards that, like, what if we made a high-end alien versus Predator that I need in my life? I am not ashamed to be that comic.

• 57:19Griffin McElroy?

  What about Alien Loves Predator?

• 57:21Chris Plante?

  Oh.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Alien and Predator now getting along.

• 57:23Chris Plante?

  Nice.

• 57:24Griffin McElroy?

  Alien Heart's Predator.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  It's like.

• 57:26Chris Plante?

  Zemo Morph loves.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  It's a sequel series to Bob Loves Ashiola.

• 57:28Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  It's Alien Loves Predator.

• 57:31Chris Plante?

  It's great. It's great.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Um, I really, I, it is very, uh, okay, Noah Hawley shows, I, I'm still using that as a subgenre, but I feel like, you know, so like, that's like, uh, Fargo and Legion and, you know, that, that, it's a very thinky kinda TV, right?

• 57:50Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  And I don't mean that in a complimentary way or a pejorative way. It just is.

• 57:54Griffin McElroy?

  It's the style.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  It's the style. And I, I feel like this is, again. I hate terms like this, but it is the most effective way of stating it. There is less pretension here and more entertainment and storytelling. And it doesn't ask you to marinate in themes so much as it does touch on the themes and then moves on to more action. We're like, great. Some of the shows got very experiential, got very sort of like, especially Legion, got very abstract in a, in a way that's very bracing and cool to see, but like, not always the most engaging to watch. This is not that. This is highly entertaining, um, super engaging, um, really cool uses. I will say, by the way, I, I know like mega corporation mergers are an absolute nightmare.

• 58:41Griffin McElroy?

  Hmm.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  And are ruining the world. There is a cool, it is a, there are a couple of instances where they have folded in intellectual property that is owned by the Disney corporation in a way that makes the story feel actually a little bit more approachable and real. Like rather than just using like ancient references, there's like Ice Age is a recurring like tableau that is almost in contrast to the Neverland theme, right? Like Ice Age is like a more modern take that the sister and the brother watched obsessively. So it's almost like a, a little sub language they share.

• 59:15Griffin McElroy?

  And they actually showed the original Peter Pan, the Disney Peter Pan, which is wild to see.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  There's like, yeah, but it's like, that really grounds it in a way that makes it feel really relatable and real. But it is, uh, I think it's great.

• 59:28Griffin McElroy?

  It's 20th century and not Disney. And I want to make that explicitly clear.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Oh, and which is owned by Disney.

• 59:36Griffin McElroy?

  Well, okay.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  No, I, I know what you mean. You're talking, you're talking about the old world when you know, there were, there were many warring factions. We live in the new world.

• 59:45Griffin McElroy?

  I'm just saying, referring to Ice Age as a Disney classic sent an actual chill up my spine.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  This is the world we live in now. This is the world we find ourselves in. I know it's a 20th century Fox project, but whatever.

• 59:56Griffin McElroy?

  Growing up, I just, there were types of.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Did I bury the lead? I did bury the lead. Who leads the Lost Boys? It's the only adult synth played by Timothy Olyphant with bleached blonde hair.

• 1:00:08Griffin McElroy?

  Oh, baby.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Uh, thank you.

• 1:00:10Griffin McElroy?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I will.

• 1:00:11Griffin McElroy?

  Fucking don't mind if I do.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, he knows all the world's, he's learned all of the world's philosophy? Uh, yeah, thanks. I'll take it.

• 1:00:19Griffin McElroy?

  Thanks.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Thank you. How many you got?

• 1:00:21Griffin McElroy?

  Uh, you got anything, Crius?

• 1:00:23Chris Plante?

  Yeah, I got a thing real quick. Um, the other night I went and saw the Invincible Czar's perform a live, uh, or backing to The Phantom of the Opera, the original silent film, The Phantom of the Opera. And if you're looking for a very kick ass thing to do during Halloween season, I strongly recommend going and checking this out at your local theater. Um, the, like, music is much more modern.

• 1:00:50Griffin McElroy?

  Is it a tour?

• 1:00:50Chris Plante?

  Kind of synthy, it's a tour. The Invincible Czar's are a band from Austin and they started doing this at the Alamo Village a long, long time ago. And now, of course.

• 1:01:01Griffin McElroy?

  I mean this in, I mean this in the nicest way possible. They very much look like a band from Austin.

• 1:01:06Chris Plante?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:01:07Griffin McElroy?

  Extraordinary, extremely.

• 1:01:09Chris Plante?

  Um, and yeah, they, they go around and they're doing this and Nosferatu, the original Nosferatu.

• 1:01:16Griffin McElroy?

  Oh, that's sick.

• 1:01:17Chris Plante?

  And just a heads up, like, they're very early in the tour. So if you live in, like, Arizona, Arizona, Virginia, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Ontario, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, or of course, Texas. They're going to all those different places. So I'll include a link in the thing. Also, there is a online version of it. Like, you can just watch, pay like six bucks and watch it. But I really recommend going and seeing this in person. It is so transcendent, honestly. Like, it, it, it really is amazing to go watch a live band perform a score for a silent movie because it makes silent movies work.

• 1:02:00Chris Plante?

  You get how people would go and see these things and be like, just wholly entertained. Um, because it's so loud and thrilling and the score that they have is absolutely killer. So it is a great way to spend a night.

• 1:02:15Griffin McElroy?

  This seems so cool. I want to do this.

• 1:02:18Chris Plante?

  You should do it. Movies. They're back. Um, okay, I'm gonna wrap up really quick on the stuff that we have talked about. We talked about Borderlands 4, Destiny Rising, Henry Halfhead, Silk Song, of course, uh, Alien Earth, and the Invincible Czar's performance of Phantom of the Opera. Anything I missed in there?

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:02:42Chris Plante?

  Cool. Uh, Hoops, you wanna take us out?

• 1:02:45Griffin McElroy?

  Hey, thanks so much for listening to our podcast that we do here. We hope you've enjoyed it and we'll come back. What are we doing next week?

• 1:02:52Chris Plante?

  Um, next week, we have, we have like two options. I think what we're probably gonna do, I think, don't hold us to this just yet. I think we're gonna do baby steps next week. And then we're going to do-

• 1:03:04Griffin McElroy?

  The new Fadi, the new Fadi jam.

• 1:03:06Chris Plante?

  The new Fadi game, the new, the, from the creator of Quop. And then we're gonna do Ghost of Yotei, um, after that. I think that's, I think that's the plan.

• 1:03:15Griffin McElroy?

  The week after that. Okay.

• 1:03:16Chris Plante?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Griffin McElroy?

  Great.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Wow. There's a lot of great games.

• 1:03:18Griffin McElroy?

  Man, crazy.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  Man.

• 1:03:20Griffin McElroy?

  Um, hey, we got a Patreon, patreon.com/thebesties. If you go there, uh, and become a supporter of our shows, you get access to all the episodes of The Resties and our monthly Bracket Battle episodes. And plus, we have this new $10 a month tier where you can get episodes from the main feed without advertisements, if that is something that you want. That is over at patreon.com/thebesties. You can join the ranks of great folks like your good buddy, Brandon. S- salute. I think I've reached the, a threshold where I need to permanently zoom in the text on screens.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Welcome.

• 1:03:58Griffin McElroy?

  Welcome. Stuvius Tyler, Ultimate Danny 5000, and GetStiggyWithIt. Thank you all so much, patreon.com/thebesties.

• 1:04:07Chris Plante?

  Perfect.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  Uh, thank you all so much for listening. Be sure to join us again next week for The Besties, because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games?