The Real Avril Lavigne (FBF)

Join Alex in the studio for a sit-down interview with Avril Lavigne. Avril takes us through some of her most iconic fashion moments (we all remember the neckties!) and her quick rise to fame. She opens up about the feelings that inspired some of her most angsty hits and how she taught herself to make music. Avril also discusses her childhood, what it was like growing up in a strict household, being on the boys hockey team and getting fired from the fried chicken shop. She explains why she’s always preferred to hang with the guys and why skater boys are still her type. Avril gets real about what it’s like to date her, lessons learned from her past relationships, and what she looks for in a partner. Finally, Avril responds to the conspiracy theory that she’s been replaced by a body double named Melissa. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:27Alex Cooper?

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• 2:12Alex Cooper?

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• 2:26Speaker 01

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:35Alex Cooper?

  Avril Lavigne just walked into my studio and brought me beer, champagne, and pizza.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  And I've never done a podcast before.

• 2:42Alex Cooper?

  Dude, cheers.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Tops, bottoms, bottoms, tops, crisscross.

• 2:49Alex Cooper?

  Fuck, I already feel so much cooler. I'm really, really happy you're here. I'm obsessed. The way to kick this off is so fucking good. Daddy Gang, if you're listening to this and you cannot see anything, Avril just walked in here, pizza, beer, champagne. You're a pretty good guest. Thanks for coming. So this is your first podcast.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  What type of Canadian would I be if I didn't show up with beer?

• 3:09Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed. I didn't know what to expect. Like, obviously, I think what's so fun with songwriters and musicians is like, we don't all the time get to see your personality. So you literally never know what to expect. So it's fun to immediately kick it off and be like, oh, your comedy. You know what you're doing, Avril. Okay. First podcast. Why don't you usually do sit-down long interviews?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Um.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  I usually don't really like interviews.

• 3:40Alex Cooper?

  I get it.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  If I'm honest.

• 3:41Alex Cooper?

  No, it's fine.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  It's never been like my favorite thing to do, but like you seem super cool, so I'm happy to be here.

• 3:47Alex Cooper?

  We're just gonna chill for an hour and hopefully you don't hate me by the end of this. I promise it's gonna be chill. You recently just announced that you're going on a North American tour and you are releasing your greatest hits album. How did you decide to do this? It's so iconic and inspiring.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like 22 years into my career now, which is super gnarly to even think about. And I'm releasing a greatest hits album in June and going on the greatest hits tour.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  And it's pretty great to to be going back out on the road and I doing one of the biggest tours of my career this far, just off like celebrating like my catalog. And so I feel like super stoked and lucky to like still be doing my thing and loving it more than ever.

• 4:34Alex Cooper?

  It's I just like not to freak you out, but I love you and I grew up

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 4:40Alex Cooper?

  loving you. And I used to make the most embarrassing music videos to all of your songs. Like I have one of the most embarrassing music videos to um, Nobody's Home. And it's like

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 4:50Alex Cooper?

  little young Alex fucking depressed, being like singing in the corner of my room, six years old, seven years old, eight years old to now, being like, it's dope to be in your presence.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Wow, that's crazy. Thank you. I you made music videos? I feel like you need to like find that, bring that up and like put little clips on TikTok. I need to see that.

• 5:06Alex Cooper?

  See, the thing is, Avril is like, my version of a music video compared to like the young kids on TikTok now, like they're hot and cool and like wear cute outfits and know how to do like contour. I was fucking busted with my little like acne and braces. So like, they're not cute. Okay, they're for like my parents to see only and be like, you were so cute, Alex. I'm like, Mom, I was hideous. Um, what is the difference? Like, when you go on a tour? What is the difference between touring now versus like when you first started out?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  So like on my first tour, I wanted to be like Green Day because I had gone to one of their shows and like all of their songs were like hit after hit after hit, just like singles. It was just like power all the way through. And so like on my my first tour, I only had three singles and the rest was just like album tracks. And like for me, that just wasn't good enough. I've wanted every song to be like a banger. So I guess I did work super hard to get to this point where now like every single song in my setlist is a hit song, a single, um, been like a really big milestone and part of my career. So like making a strong setlist is like for me.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  That's like the biggest thing that goes into the show, but I think um every tour has gotten easier. I've come out of my shell more as a performer. Also like bringing like my favorite bands out on the road to open with me, like actually like my friends.

• 6:34Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, oh, that's true.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  So we can play like beer pong backstage, skateboard backstage together, have barbecues backstage.

• 6:42Alex Cooper?

  Didn't you have Simple Plan?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. So Simple Plan opened for me on my first tour back in obsessed. 2002.

• 6:50Alex Cooper?

  And you had All Time Low too?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  All Time Low are coming out.

• 6:53Alex Cooper?

  I was so obsessed with All Time Low. I had posted, I was like, I was like very, very obsessed with them at a point where I was like, this is concerning. Like, I really thought I was gonna marry one of them and then like, I obviously didn't. I was, no, I was obsessed. And I would like, wear skinny jeans and like the col- like I would wear like skinny colored jeans.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Where are you from?

• 7:13Alex Cooper?

  I'm from Pennsylvania.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:14Alex Cooper?

  And you're from Canada?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm from Canada.

• 7:16Alex Cooper?

  What do you do to make it fun on tour? Like, give me an example.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  I like touring with my friends and like days off, taking the bus to like a campsite and going camping and going and pulling up into like an RV site instead of like going to a hotel and just like sitting there staring at the ceiling like, what is my life? Seen way too many of those, way too long. Um, like I just go on Amazon and I get a bunch of fun, like I've got a pink cooler that I've just ordered and pink chairs that'll sit outside of my bus every day. There will be beer there. Um, I'll have my skateboards out and then usually my bus is the cool bus because of that with, and I have my beer pong table out there and then everyone just like after the show comes my way.

• 7:59Alex Cooper?

  Do you have any like pre-show rituals? Like, are you superstitious at all?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  I'm just like mellow as fuck in the day because if you think about it, the show is around like 9:00 PM, which is why noon feels like super early for artists.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry that this interview was at noon. I'm like, come walk in, I got like one eye open. I'm just like, I haven't worked out, I haven't had breakfast. I need to like, make sure I'm covered here. Oh my God.

• 8:28Alex Cooper?

  I'm sorry about that. Yeah, someone came in there like, do you think you can lower the lights a little bit? I'm like, oh, right. She's not awake. You're literally doing this asleep. You're gonna leave and be like, what the fuck did I say on that interview?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  My, my time, even though the interview was at noon, my time was like, eight o'clock glam.

• 8:46Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Leave the house at 10:30. I was like, can we push glam to nine?

• 8:53Alex Cooper?

  So not superstitious.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, no, I think I just like, what's important is that I do take care of myself before the show.

• 9:00Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And then do the complete opposite after the show. So it's like sleep in, hopefully till three.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Or noon on the early side. And then like the show, that is like the gym session. It's a 90 minute set at like nine o'clock at night. So that's when I have to like give it my all and be awake. But that is actually the flow of my body is to like wake up at night, not a morning person. We've made that clear. Or a noon person.

• 9:31Alex Cooper?

  You're like, why am I here?

• 9:34Alex Cooper?

  Can I take a quick nap? Alex, you just talk for the next hour.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  You just take a lot of my ass and pizza.

• 9:40Alex Cooper?

  That is, no, but that makes sense though, because I like, I think that's like, if anyone has a nighttime job, like

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:47Alex Cooper?

  sleeping in super late.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Bring it. It starts and then we don't go to bed till 6 a.m. because you get offstage, you're wired, you're amped.

• 9:53Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  The adrenaline and then like bus call, buses don't leave until like whatever, three o'clock. So it's like after the show, we like set up a barbecue, you know, have fun, hang out with the bands and all that.

• 10:05Alex Cooper?

  And party.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  And for me, like that tour bus, that's my home. So again, another fun Amazon order of just hello the fuck kitty, everything. I've got like 20 Hello Kitty pillows in the front lounge. And I've got like Hello Kitty bedding, Hello Kitty towels, and everything's just pink and fun.

• 10:24Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, I didn't even think you would be a Hello Kitty girl.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:28Alex Cooper?

  I would think like maybe a lot of black.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  I have a Hello Kitty room. On my house.

• 10:33Alex Cooper?

  On your house?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  The tour bus is a Hello Kitty tour bus, but my room in at my house, I have our room. Well, it used to be my bedroom. Um, and it's a Hello Kitty bedroom.

• 10:44Alex Cooper?

  When guys came over, would they like be a little freaked out to like have sex in that room?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Well, I.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  I wasn't, there wasn't a lot of guys.

• 10:52Alex Cooper?

  Okay, sorry. It made man.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Relationship, long relationships.

• 10:57Alex Cooper?

  Right, right, right. It made man.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I mean, there was like a stripper pole and the coffee, in the little coffee table and like this huge pink velvet couch full of like all these stuffed animal Hello Kitties.

• 11:11Alex Cooper?

  Are you getting on the stripper pole?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 11:13Alex Cooper?

  Wait, you're good on a stripper pole? Wait, you need to teach me. What the fuck? How did you learn to get on a?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  You just, you just have a couple of those and wing it.

• 11:22Alex Cooper?

  You have a couple beers and you're ready to go. Wow, a new talent. I guess if I had asked you like, what's a hidden talent? Would you ever say that or no?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:33Alex Cooper?

  Next time you go to a party and they ask you a fun fact about yourself, you're like, I can rip on a stripper pole. You're welcome. Um, what is one of the craziest like fan interactions you've ever had?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  I got a wedding dress when I was like over in Korea. Bunny was thrown at me on my lap in like a bag and I was like, what was this? It's warm. And I like opened it. I'm like, ah. I thought it was a cat. It was a bunny. Uh, but we took care of it. Made sure it went somewhere safe. And then I had a wedding dress and I was like, that's cool, but it's weird.

• 12:02Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, because now that like woman will never see her wedding dress yet.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  No, it was like for me, from a guy.

• 12:07Alex Cooper?

  Wait, what? I thought you were saying like a woman gave you her wedding dress to like take and sign? A man gave you a wedding dress?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess that was a super forward way of.

• 12:18Alex Cooper?

  Proposing.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:19Alex Cooper?

  So romantic.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  I have that effect on people.

• 12:23Alex Cooper?

  I mean, literally, literally. We'll get to that. Your style, can we talk about this for a minute? Because again, like when I was younger, I just remember so many moments in early 2000s, trends were dictated by you, queen. Like your style was and is everything. If you had to pick three essential wardrobe items that are like your staples, what would you pick?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  A big hoodie. Just like an oversized black hoodie.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Like bondage pants. And like military boots, like combat boots.

• 13:03Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so that has like kind of changed because when I was younger Avril, I remember it was the necktie.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  The necktie.

• 13:10Alex Cooper?

  But you don't understand, like I would look at you and be like, oh my, this is the fucking coolest thing ever that she's wearing a necktie. So I would venture into my older brother's room, but he went to like a like Catholic prep school. So he had ties that were like wide as fuck and ugly and hideous. And that's the only tie I could find and I would like wear it around my house with like a little wife beater and I really.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Oh my god, stop. That is so cute.

• 13:34Alex Cooper?

  I really thought I was doing something and I hope those photos never surface.

• 13:39Alex Cooper?

  But the necktie was iconic and then like the little um, like the sweatbands on your wrist you used to wear, which were so cool.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy. Um, I've been thinking about the tie a lot lately and the wristbands, the sweatbands with the, the skater boy star, which is like my tattoo right here and I'll probably wear those on stage because I used to wear them all the time.

• 14:02Alex Cooper?

  All the time.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and um.

• 14:04Alex Cooper?

  That's so fun.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Maybe I'll wear the necktie on stage.

• 14:08Alex Cooper?

  Please, honestly do it for me. Like I will literally have like a revival in my soul. I will, I need to come do a show. I'm like so obsessed. But that would be epic. I think everyone, anytime we see you in a tie, it just brings us back to like our childhood and it makes us happy.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  It was so crazy. Like my first show, so I was like 17 and it was, I don't know where it was. It was in Vancouver somewhere. And it was sort of like a warm up show they were putting together for me. And it was like in like a little club and it was like the first real show. And I remember like being up in my dressing room and looking out onto the street and seeing like all the like fans lined up to come in. And they were, the girls were, they were dressed like me. They had on the, the tank, white tank top and the tie and like stick straight hair and black eyeliner. And I was like, what? I was like, this is crazy. And it like from like the first show, it was like from the beginning, it was like a thing. And pretty cool too to see like every album.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Like my image changed a bit to like, uh, under my skin, my second album, I put like black hair in and was wearing the bondage pants and then all the girls, front row, like the blonde hair with the black underneath, bondage pants, black eyes. The third album, the best damn thing, showing up at the show with the, uh, the pink streak in the hair and just like.

• 15:30Alex Cooper?

  I will never forget that. Trust me, I thought about doing it. My mom was like, absolutely fucking not, Alex. I'm like, shit. Were you always like super confident to wear whatever you wanted to wear, like your whole life?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kinda just like came together. I didn't like think about it or anything. Um, like obviously when I was younger, I was like just dressing in whatever my mom bought. And then when I got, you know, into high school, I was like, okay, I like hoodies and skateboarding clothes. And I started skateboarding and was into like West 49 and vans and started wearing like really baggy pants. And, um, my parents were just like, um, are you gonna keep dressing like a boy? So like, when I like made, when I went out to New York City and, um, was like meeting with like important people and writing songs in the studio, they

• 16:27Speaker 01

  were kinda like, can you like dress up a little better? But what was awesome was when I got signed by L.A. Reid, um, I was sitting in his office, I was like 16 and he just looked at me and he was like, taking a meeting with my mom and I, and he's like, you know, you have like your own thing going on, girl. Like usually we have like people come in and you have to like figure out what your style is and we like help you and whatever. And he's like, you got your own thing going on. Like you just keep doing you. And like, I think that was awesome. I'm so glad he did that. Probably like looking back, that did instill confidence in me, but also like. I didn't care. I was gonna dress that way anyway.

• 17:10Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  But like.

• 17:12Alex Cooper?

  No, but that's like a great thing to know that someone didn't try to change you. That was probably in a position where like, if they asked you to, I'm sure your mom and you would have looked at each other and been like, fuck, like, is this what we have to do to make it in this industry?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Normally, they probably, especially like at that time with like, all bubblegum pop was so big, they probably would have put me in something sexy, cute, pink, girly, frilly, like mid-drift. And like, that wasn't, not my vibe. There's definitely like times that like photo shoots, I'd show up at whatever magazine to shoot, to shoot, and they wanted to put me in stuff that like, I was very afraid of. Like blouses. And I was just like, nah. So I'd like, you know, you'd have to like, have a word with them. The manager would be like, you know, she has her own style. And like,

• 18:03Speaker 01

  pull out my like skateboarding bookbag and dump like my ties and my spiked bracelets on the floor and be like, is there my stuff? So we had to go back and forth, but it was like a little bit of a fight. And I had to always push for that. But it worked out pretty good.

• 18:17Alex Cooper?

  It worked out phenomenally. I want to go back a little bit to your childhood, because I think like when you're looking at someone so famous and so successful, it is fascinating. Like, you grew up in Canada in a really small town with like 5,000 people. How would you describe your childhood, like before you were famous?

• 18:51Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait, where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could. Pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together. And you know, Daddy gave me my cooking skills.

• 19:35Alex Cooper?

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• 20:18Alex Cooper?

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• 22:28Alex Cooper?

  So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy. How would you describe your childhood, like before you were famous?

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Normal as fuck. And I'm like grateful for that because like I came out at like a really young age and I'm glad that I had like a normal, steady, like solid childhood. I played a lot of sports. I was on the hockey team.

• 23:02Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  The guys hockey team.

• 23:05Alex Cooper?

  How the fuck did you get onto the guys hockey team?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Well, I just wanted to play hockey and it was like the guys, there wasn't a girls league. So I was able to play from like novice to pee wee. And then pee wee is when there's body contact and that's when I wasn't allowed to play anymore. But then at that, by that time I was in grade nine, like my first year of high school and they had a girls team in the high school. So I tried out for that and I almost said audition.

• 23:38Alex Cooper?

  You auditioned.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  I tried out for the girls team in high school and I made it. And then I blew it by going to our first tournament out of town and.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Getting expelled from school and kicked off the, out of the tournament because someone got caught drinking in the hotel room and someone ratted her out.

• 24:01Alex Cooper?

  No, Avril.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  And my parents were just so mad at me. Like it was like, I like did drugs or something, which I've never done, by the way. And it was like, I had done something so terrible. It's like, who cares? Of course I'm, I'm away from my parents. I'm in a hotel. We're in Toronto, the big city, doing like an, you know, like an OFSA tournament. And like, yeah, I got busted. So I got, had to go home. My parents were like, we're gonna send you to the Catholic school, Avril. And I was just like, oh, what have I done?

• 24:31Alex Cooper?

  Stop. Did you make friends with all the guys when you were playing with like guys? Or were you like the odd man out and people would like make fun of you?

• 24:37Speaker 01

  My whole life, I've been like friends with guys. Um, all in school and we would like get in real fights. I'm a good blocker. That's like, that was my move. I'm a blocker. Like, block the punch. Um, and yeah, so I played a lot of sports, hockey in the winter, baseball in the summer. I was a pitcher. There was a lot of like, because I was so into hockey, like there's a lot of like rollerblading. So I was rollerblading around town, building forts, skateboarding and, um, and all that stuff. Yeah. I hung out with the guys and then I like left home, had a band, lived on a tour bus with guys. And

• 25:19Speaker 01

  still like to this day, I'm just like, most of my friends are guys.

• 25:25Alex Cooper?

  Did your parents ever be like, why don't you have any girlfriends? Like, should we invite like Rebecca over? Like, let's try this. Let's give it a whirl, Avril? Or did they like not give a shit?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Uh, my parents were really strict with me. Like if I had a guy over, who was just my friend even, like there was no bedroom. It was like the middle floor. They monitored it. It was dinner. It was, but all we wanted to do anyway was run around and like. Rollerblade, skateboard, play mini hockey.

• 25:53Alex Cooper?

  I played hockey too, and my brother played hockey.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  You did?

• 25:56Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  What position?

• 25:58Alex Cooper?

  I was like, well, first of all, I was like, not that great. I ended up going and playing soccer, but I was like, on offense, and my dad works for the NHL.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:07Alex Cooper?

  So like, my whole life hockey, it was, oh my god, we were a full hockey.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 26:12Alex Cooper?

  It was cool, but we were like, it was weird, I think, in Pennsylvania, like, you're lucky, Canada, it was like, that's the sport.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:18Alex Cooper?

  But in Pennsylvania, people were like, why do you have your children playing frickin hockey? And my dad was like, it's just the best sport ever, like, just trust us. And so we had like, roller hockey, mini hockey in the basement on the carpet.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  And you take the sticks and burn them over the stove?

• 26:33Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Oh my god. And like, I think people were like, what are you guys doing in your basement? We're like, we're playing mini hockey.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Living our best lives.

• 26:40Alex Cooper?

  Literally, thriving. And it was so fun.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  No one will ever fuck with us when we're older.

• 26:46Alex Cooper?

  But it's cool that you played hockey, because I feel like it's obviously a sport that makes you really fucking tough.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  It does.

• 26:52Alex Cooper?

  And you just learn to like, basically get the shit beaten out of you on the ice, and then you're like, oh, it's normal day.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  And it's freezing cold.

• 27:00Alex Cooper?

  All the pads.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  And you wake up, and just skating alone is so hard. It's like gnarly cardio, and then if you're actually like, playing and stick handling and shooting, and like, you're out there and the game is happening, skating is its own thing.

• 27:14Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, I remember like, I want, because my, my husband is from LA, and I so badly just want to take him like, ice skating, even if it's like, during Christmas time, around like, the little fucking pond, okay? Because he's so good at sports, but he does not know how to ice skate, so I'm like, watch me backward skate. Watch me skate around, watch me do drills, bitch.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Can you, are you awesome on skates?

• 27:37Alex Cooper?

  I'm really good.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 27:39Alex Cooper?

  We should go skate.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yes, let's do it.

• 27:42Alex Cooper?

  We're in LA.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Like, I can skate backwards, crossover, all of it.

• 27:46Alex Cooper?

  It's like, it is a pretty good skill to have, and I feel like it's a flex when like, a guy takes you ice skating during like, the holidays, and you're like, oh, you think I'm gonna have to hold your hand, or hold on to like, the rails the whole time? Bitch, I'm gonna be holding you. Like, I know Matt's gonna be falling, and I'm gonna be holding him. I just don't know if I want to take him, because I may get the ick, so I just like, need to be careful.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  I know, like, make sure he's ready for that.

• 28:08Alex Cooper?

  No, literally. So you like had a pretty normal upbringing, which I'm happy you're talking about. Cause it's like, you're playing sports, you're hanging.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I babysat. I shoveled driveways. I mowed lawn.

• 28:19Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  And did the whipper snipper.

• 28:22Alex Cooper?

  The weed whacker.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  I like put flyers out.

• 28:26Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Um, I cleaned houses.

• 28:29Alex Cooper?

  You did it all?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  I worked at a fried chicken place.

• 28:32Alex Cooper?

  How was that?

• 28:33Speaker 01

  And then I got fired.

• 28:34Alex Cooper?

  Again? Were you drinking on the job?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  No, I was, I'm a really good, a hard worker. I actually asked, requested for some time off to perform somewhere and he used it against me.

• 28:45Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, he must feel so fucking dumb now. He's like, fuck.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  And then I wrote a song about it on my first album.

• 28:50Alex Cooper?

  Wait, which one?

• 28:51Speaker 01

  It's called My World.

• 28:53Alex Cooper?

  And that's about the chicken shop you worked at?

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Got fired by a fried chicken ass all in a small town, Napanee.

• 29:00Alex Cooper?

  Wait, that was about him? Shut the fuck up.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  And like I heard after they like took the lyrics of my song and like framed it and put it up in the store.

• 29:08Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, fuck.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Fuck yeah, I could've used the extra $20.

• 29:14Alex Cooper?

  Wait, that's fucking epic. I didn't realize that. Like now I need to go back and listen to that song again because sometimes when you're listening to songs, you're like, oh, did they just kind of like make that up? Or like that you literally lived that. You got fucking fired from those chicken fuckers.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  My hair is actually so curly. Like no one knows that. I have really frizzy curly hair.

• 29:33Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  I didn't discover the flat iron until the making of my first album. So on that song, also My World, I talk about how I would braid my hair in a zillion braids and it would take me all friggin' day. Are there lyrics? Cause it would take me five hours. So I was just braid my hair in little braids because there was no flat iron back then, or definitely not in my small town.

• 29:57Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Then when I came to LA, I was like working on my album, my producer took me to get a blow dry and I was like, what? This is a life changing. Do you know what I have done? I used to like shower and like wash my hair, like put on a tuque.

• 30:15Alex Cooper?

  Stop.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  What you guys call a beanie in the States, a beanie, just like let my hair try to dry flat. I couldn't get it straight.

• 30:23Alex Cooper?

  You're trying to literally like pin it to your head.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  So then she got me, my producer got me a flat iron for, actually, yeah, for my birthday. And then it was, it was game over. Everyone just thinks I have stick straight hair. It's like never, well, I ever what curly hair I got.

• 30:38Alex Cooper?

  It's so straight. It's so straight. Like your first album, I remember, because my hair is so naturally straight that I was like, oh my, because so girls used to make fun of me in like middle school being like, your best friend is your straightener. And I was like, I don't own a straightener because my hair was so straight. So when I saw your first album, I was like, oh my God, she's a straight hair girl like me. Now I'm realizing like, averal.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Dude, if you saw my hair, it's like poof. It's like so curly. I hate it. But like my friends like it.

• 31:06Alex Cooper?

  I bet it's so gorge. Like I bet you actually look amazing, but I get when you're younger, like anything you have, you're like, I want the opposite. I don't want this shit.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  But my hair is so thick. So when I do get a blow dry, it's like lasts for like a week.

• 31:19Alex Cooper?

  When I'm thinking now of how normal your upbringing was, like, what do you think people in your town thought when you started getting famous?

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 31:35Alex Cooper?

  Like, do you think it was a surprise to people?

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Like, okay, so like around school, mm, okay. So when I was 14, I won a contest to sing on stage with Shania Twain. In Ottawa, so it was like a few hours away from my small town. And like, I sang on stage with her and then I came back and I was like famous in my high school. It was like walking down to the hallway. I was like, ah, singer girl. She's the singer girl. That's several. So everyone kind of knew me as like the singer girl.

• 32:04Alex Cooper?

  You got famous at 17 years old.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:07Alex Cooper?

  Like big, big fame.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  I'm a high school dropout.

• 32:09Alex Cooper?

  Love, love.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  I went to New York and I started making my first album. My friends were all doing, um, what are those things called? The exams?

• 32:19Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  That's the shit I didn't have to do. Is it an exam?

• 32:23Alex Cooper?

  Like SATs?

• 32:24Speaker 01

  What's the thing at the end?

• 32:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, an exam. Yeah, I didn't have to do that.

• 32:28Alex Cooper?

  Finals?

• 32:29Speaker 01

  And I would make fun of them and I'd be like, thank God I don't have to do this. I'm just in New York gaining 10 pounds, eating McDonald's and pizza every day. No shit. That's all my brother and I did because he came to chaperone.

• 32:44Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, and, uh, and but all I was thinking at the same time was this better work.

• 32:49Alex Cooper?

  Right?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  This better work.

• 32:51Alex Cooper?

  Uh, because I feel like you're a quite competent person. Like, did you have any insecurities back then?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  No. I was like, just like tomboy, liked hanging out with the guys, loved music. And then, you know, like when I was, when I was younger, I was singing in church, singing at like the country fairs around town. That's kind of like, those were sort of the like options in front of me. Then when I got into high school, so like 14, 15, I was like,

• 33:22Speaker 01

  not really feeling these songs anymore. So I like went through a phase where it was like, I, it could have gone, you know, I was at a crossroads. It could have been like, okay, I'm not gonna sing anymore. Or it was just like, I was just like, I don't want to do these events anymore. So I started turning them down and it was kind of like, oh, what are we doing here? And that forced me to write my own songs. So I sat in my bedroom and was like playing the guitar. I had no idea what I was doing. I knew one chord, but I was gonna figure it out. And so I started definitely like writing for sure at 14. And I know that because one of my songs I wrote.

• 33:58Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Really, I'm 14 years old.

• 34:02Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  I'm not that old. That's one of the fucking lyrics in the song. So I'm like, I know I was writing by 14.

• 34:11Alex Cooper?

  That's amazing.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and then I got into high school and then I discovered like Green Day and Noah Faks, Blink 182. And I was like, yes. And like got an electric guitar, wore it low and um just started writing my own songs. And that's kind of like where it all shifted for me and then sort of like ended up performing again and making my way to New York City, getting a record deal by like 16 and was so young. No one could fathom that like I wanted to write my own songs. So that was like the biggest sort of challenge on my the making of the first album and that everyone was the producers, you know,

• 34:53Speaker 01

  they naturally went to like polished and fluffy and this and that. And I was just like, no. And it was like, really, I worked with a million people on that album. And then I finally connected towards the end with um a couple of producers that then understood. They like sat there and listened to me and and heard what I was going for. We wrote the songs together and it was like a really perfect collaboration where it was like, okay, there's this young girl, she has a vision, we're gonna work with her and help her get there. And they were all extremely talented people too. And so fought for that, got it. And like, you know, developed my own sound and style and and the rest is history.

• 35:38Alex Cooper?

  That first like sound and style, like I remember I was reading somewhere you really described it as like pretty like angsty and like you coming across as like a quite like chill, happy person. Like, were you actually feeling a lot of those emotions? Because like some of the songs are really fucking sad because trust me, I cried to them and I when I was growing up. So like where were those feelings coming from?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  I'm a really big feeler and I feel everything and I've gone through, you know, I've obviously experienced all different types of emotion. Uh, when you're in high school, when you're going in that age, you know, you're really trying to like, you're like feeling, having a crush for the first time or being disappointed, feeling neglected or like being vulnerable um and um opening your heart to someone, your first um breakup and there and the excitement of something new. There's so much to like tap into and to write about. I was never really thinking about it. It'd probably just end up being like that day, what I was feeling. There's definitely like songs like.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Losing grip. I'm often like, I listen to the lyrics and I'm like, and I knew it when I was writing them. Like, where's this shit coming from? Is this my past life?

• 36:51Alex Cooper?

  Were your parents ever like, what the fuck, Avril? Are you okay?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  I, I'm not really, but they were, they were like, they didn't like the swearing. They were a little like, you know, the clothes and da, da, da. But like, they get it. My mom, when I was two, she was like, she knew I was gonna be a singer, like, came home from church. She's like, she's, holy shit. Holy God. She's like, she's like, oh, came home, she said, I came home from church singing, Jesus loves me, or Jesus loves you. And she's like, oh my God, she can sing. And so my parents were like, so supportive and like, obviously wouldn't be here without that support.

• 37:28Alex Cooper?

  Were you always confident getting on a stage? Like, are you like, I feel like you're not, you, you were, you just,

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Alex Cooper?

  Cause like I,

• 37:35Speaker 01

  I always have this weird dream though, where I'm on stage and I can't remember the words. Why have I been doing that lately?

• 37:43Alex Cooper?

  Wait, stop.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  But no, I'm confident on stage. It's like,

• 37:46Alex Cooper?

  You never even thought about it. It's like nothing.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:49Alex Cooper?

  That's incredible.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  And when, okay, and then when I sang with Shania on stage, it was in front of like 20,000 people in this arena, like packed. It was 14. All I felt like over my whole body was like, like walked out on stage and I was just like, oh my gosh, like I really, this is what I really want, like for me. And then like, two years later, three years later, I sold out that arena and played my own show.

• 38:16Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember like how you felt?

• 38:18Speaker 01

  I was like, this is crazy. This is insane.

• 38:21Alex Cooper?

  And when you would have those moments of like, holy fuck, like, would you turn to like your mom? Like, who was your go-to person to like freak out with?

• 38:27Speaker 01

  I still like have them all the time.

• 38:30Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Just like if I'm just like walking, I hear myself like out in public and I'm like, I was gonna say, and I'm in a mall and then I hear myself, but I'm not really in a mall. I don't know where I am. Maybe it's an outdoor mall. I don't know.

• 38:44Alex Cooper?

  I love your.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Wherever I am and I hear myself on the radio like it's, it's definitely like, damn bitch.

• 38:50Alex Cooper?

  Dude.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  You made it like.

• 38:51Alex Cooper?

  You did.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Small town, no connections. I don't know how I did it. It was supposed to happen, obviously.

• 38:58Alex Cooper?

  It was.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  A lot of hard work.

• 39:00Alex Cooper?

  But it's really interesting to hear you talking about your songwriting process because you're so talented.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 39:05Alex Cooper?

  And hearing you be like, I'm writing Losing Grip and I'm literally like, what the fuck am I, where did I, did I experience this? Like, nobody's home, like, it's.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Right? I kind of felt that way too, but like, I was also like, okay, I'm gonna write this about this like girl that I know or like the words sort of start and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna take it in this direction. And it's not about me and I'm tapping into like what I know somebody else went through.

• 39:30Alex Cooper?

  Interesting.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:31Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel about all the fame and attention?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I think I was fine with it and like my whole life is like weird because of it, like everything I do, you're in public. So you just like do weird things like there's people walking. So you just kind of turn or like, you're not just gonna, not just gonna like stand there, you know? It's like, I mean, if I was like in an airport waiting for like a suitcase, you know, you're gonna like kind of stand behind the like pillar. You're not just gonna stand, it's all like that and it never bugged me or anything. I just like, I got it. I was like, okay, this is how things go now.

• 40:03Alex Cooper?

  That's a really healthy way to look at it because I think that's a unique perspective.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:08Alex Cooper?

  Like, I feel like a lot of people feel like they don't have autonomy over their life.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:13Alex Cooper?

  Once they get famous and you're like chilling.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Like I get followed every time, not every time, but I get followed when I leave my house. I don't know how I try to like go different ways and stuff like that. And so like, I like to go to the grocery store and I like to do all that stuff, but I have to be in the headspace to like energetically, energetically handle it, which I'm totally fine with too. Like.

• 40:35Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Do you really want your picture taken like this if you walk out right now? Are you okay with it? You know what I mean? It's like, you have to think about that.

• 40:43Alex Cooper?

  That's, I mean, I am. Really pleased by your answer. Like, there is no right or wrong answer. Like, I've had musicians sit here and be like, "I'm such an introvert, it's really fucking hard." And like, "I hate it, and I wish I could just write songs and upload it and never be in public." That's awesome to know that you're someone that's like, "I don't really care. It's actually kind of chill."

• 41:00Speaker 01

  It is what it is. And like, I learned it and how to move with it. And it's like, I would never complain about it because what I get to do is fucking awesome. And that's part of it. Like, how fucking cool is that? That like, people know who I am. That means my music got heard.

• 41:15Alex Cooper?

  So fucking true.

• 41:32Alex Cooper?

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• 42:15Alex Cooper?

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• 43:00Alex Cooper?

  workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's better H E L P dot com slash daddy. What do you think people, if anything, like misunderstood about you from your career? And like you growing up in the spotlight?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  So I think when people meet me, like, I think they're, "Oh, my God, you're so nice."

• 43:33Speaker 01

  "You're so sweet." No, I've had, I like ask people too, like, guys are like, yours is like, like more like, I don't know what the word is, like soft, like feminine, more than a girly or something.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  I think people, because of like my, maybe my music videos, think I'm like, like all the time I'm not, I'm actually like, "Well, what do you think? What is your take on me?"

• 44:00Alex Cooper?

  I mean, I, yeah, I mean, just now trying to think about it, because I think when you were younger, I really, and I was younger, I channeled like, "Oh, this girl's sad and angry." Like, because-

• 44:13Speaker 01

  I know, it was like Angry Avril.

• 44:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And I think that was like, but now it's kind of really incredible to like, get to sit across from you and hear you be like, "Some of these songs I was writing, like, there was a girl I knew and I was like, writing about her." And then, like, it really wasn't that deep. Like, "My boss fucking fired me from my chicken spot." And so I'm like, "Fuck you. I wish I got my extra 20 in my new, my other paycheck." Like, I think it's, I do think, though, I don't take back, though, like, I loved how deep those songs were and angsty they were, because I felt like a lot of people- Needed that, that type of music back then. Like, I think you're right. There was so much like pop and princess and it was like, woo, like, let's shake our bodies and be, and I'm like, I don't, my, my crush that doesn't even know I exist,

• 44:58Alex Cooper?

  broke up with me and he didn't even know he broke up with me, but he didn't look at me today. So I'm heartbroken. And I'm gonna go listen to Losing Grip and I'm gonna fucking cry. I needed that. Okay. I don't need like a, shake your body and dance and be happy. Sure, maybe on a Friday night, but like, I in that era needed that, depressing-esque music. Is that fucked up to say?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:18Alex Cooper?

  But it's nice to know you weren't depressed, I guess?

• 45:20Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, I went through it all and I was like a teenager and feeling the feels and I was definitely like in, like emo and like going through it and like feeling it all and um, it's like, I don't wanna write a song about being happy 'cause it's gonna be kinda like cheesy and like not that cool. Kinda go do that right now. I'm like, I don't know what to write about because like, it's just like, that's the thing. It's like, an intense emotion, like, Head Above Water was like a really dark, heavy song for me, like, kind of like near-death experience, like, one of the hardest things I've ever gone through in my life. But like, it's real easy to write about.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I was literally like laying there in bed like, I'm dying and I'm accepting it. Oh, there's a song! Got it. And I literally grabbed my phone and like, the song like channels through me. Um.

• 46:14Alex Cooper?

  Are you referencing when you got sick?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And that was for like, kind of like, what, two plus years of your life? You were like, in bed?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was like, I was kinda like bedridden for a couple of years and like, and then like, you know, you gotta like stronger coming out of that. And that's something that like rocks you pretty hard, but like, I'm really grateful to be like on the other, other end of that. And so that was like a really, um, in, I'll think twice about uh, riding the dirt bikes out in the woods on the east coast next time.

• 46:45Alex Cooper?

  Cause it was lime season.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all I did. It was like out, outside and it's like, you know.

• 46:51Alex Cooper?

  But I get what you're saying. You're like, then you're laying there and you're like, yeah, I can write a depressing song right now 'cause this fucking sucks. But it's like waves of emotion that you're like tuning into.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  And like, I've gone through a lot in my life in love, like tons of ups and downs. And like, you know, definitely written like the angry songs and the sad songs. And having going through like something hard in life, it's easy to like sit down at the piano. Especially that instrument really pulls it out of me. Um, but unlike my last album, Love Sucks, it was like much lighter. Um, even though it was like little boy bashing and like poking fun at like love and stuff. It was, I kind of like putting a twist on my songs now where it's like, it's like, it's funny.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  It's like, I'm just like rolling my eyes at myself for it like not working out again or something. And just like having fun with it. I don't like, I'm in a phase, in a place right now today where, where I'm writing. I don't really like want it to be like that dark. I say that means nothing at all because tomorrow I could write, I could write a, a boo hoo song.

• 48:06Alex Cooper?

  I think that's something that I-

• 48:07Speaker 01

  You just never know. Like with, it's like when I, when I get in the kitchen and I'm cooking, I don't know what I'm cooking. And it turns into what it turns into. I got a canvas I love to paint. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like, oh, well, it's cool. That can go on the wall. That one, not so much.

• 48:21Alex Cooper?

  Total, no, I-

• 48:22Speaker 01

  It's when you write a song, sometimes like you can be intentional with an album. Go in and be like, this is my vibe. Or you can just like wing it, write and just see what kind of comes out and gets put together.

• 48:35Alex Cooper?

  I think that some people may not know, like I love that you said, like when you walked into those meetings, people were like, how is like a 15, 16 year old, 16 year old girl trying to write? Like here, let us give you writers and like just go sing, sweetie. And I think you're such an incredible, I know you're such an incredible writer that like, I know one of the fun facts online that everyone still can't get over is that you wrote Breakaway for Kelly Clarkson. And that's like a perfect example of like, you're so talented. Do you remember writing that song? And like, was it about a heartbreak?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  The lyric used to be, I grew up in a small town and when the snow would fall down, I would just stare out my window.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  I'm actually gonna, um, probably will perform that Breakaway, Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway on the Greatest Hits Tour.

• 49:20Alex Cooper?

  That would be fucking amazing. How, but how did you decide to get rid of it?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  I just like wasn't feeling it.

• 49:28Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And, um, I'm so glad it went to her. She killed it. It was a massive hit for her. And, um, yeah, it's kind of like, just like growing, um, being from a small town and taking a chance and like going into the big city and going after your dream.

• 49:43Alex Cooper?

  There is a crazy rumor out there about you that I obviously have to ask about. And I always ask people when they come on my show, like, oh, what's the craziest rumor that you've ever heard about yourself? I guess I could just first ask you, like, what would you answer before I ask you?

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that one. I know what you're talking about. I mean, it's just funny to me. Like, on, like, one end, everyone's like, oh my God, you look the exact same. You haven't aged a day. But then other people are like, you know, there's a conspiracy theory that I'm not me.

• 50:18Alex Cooper?

  There is a...

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Cool. Honestly, it's not that bad. It could be worse, right? Like, I feel like I got a good one.

• 50:29Alex Cooper?

  But is it, okay?

• 50:30Speaker 01

  I don't think it's like negative or anything like creepy. It's like, forget.

• 50:35Alex Cooper?

  Avril, this conspiracy theory about you is a little creepy. Come on.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:39Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. It could be worse.

• 50:42Alex Cooper?

  It could? Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:44Alex Cooper?

  No, you could be getting like online.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  I mean, obviously, I am me. It's so dumb.

• 50:50Alex Cooper?

  To people that don't understand, just to give people context, there's a conspiracy theory that Avril Lavigne is no longer with us. And there is a woman named Melissa who took over. And you, I can't even say seriously, you sitting across from me, you are Melissa. And there are like conspiracy theories that run so fucking deep. Like, does it annoy you that there will be people that comment on this episode being like, that's Melissa? That's not Avril?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  When did it start? My second album? Like, I don't even know. Like, I think, like, from the beginning-ish, second album? I don't know.

• 51:21Alex Cooper?

  And why do you think people think that?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  I think that they've done that with other artists. I'm not the only one. I think, like, other people have that.

• 51:29Alex Cooper?

  I feel like yours is, like, really prominent.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, I feel like you might believe that.

• 51:34Alex Cooper?

  I'm honestly the one that started the conspiracy. I'm one of those freak bloggers that's like, I went undercover to interview Melissa.

• 51:45Alex Cooper?

  No, but it's, it's fucking crazy and I just have empathy for you, but it's good again to know you don't give a fuck. Where people are like, oh, Melissa showed up today. And I'm like, I remembered like being like, what are people talking about? And then I went and started looking and like, oh, people are fucking insane. So you don't care. We're over it. Okay. So your name is Avril Lavigne.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:08Alex Cooper?

  I knew you half believed it.

• 52:12Alex Cooper?

  I'm telling you what's crazy is you haven't aged. I'm staring at you and like, I'm picturing you with your like auburn hair. And I'm like, oh my God, you literally look the same from when you were younger. You're beautiful. Let's talk about your love life. Your career exploded when you were so young. Like, were you still able to go on dates with guys and then not be freaked out by your success?

• 52:31Speaker 01

  I never really did the dating thing. I was always like in a pretty major relationship.

• 52:37Alex Cooper?

  You're a relationship girl.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:39Alex Cooper?

  What are you like in a relationship?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  I'm fucking awesome.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  I would date me.

• 52:48Alex Cooper?

  I love that.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  I cook. I'm a really big cook, really big into like the house and decorating and I have like a lot of fun with that. So yeah, I'd always have people over at my house, throw parties, cook big, huge dinners at the dining room table. I'm gonna order that keg sand. There is going to be a full bar. We are going to have beer pong and stay up until the sun comes up. It's gonna be a good time.

• 53:14Alex Cooper?

  And there will be Hello Kitty and stripper balls.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  And there will be matching tattoos involved. All of my tattoos were drunk tattoos and like they'd be boring if I was sober.

• 53:24Alex Cooper?

  All of them are drunk.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  So let's finish this beer and then we'll call my tattoo artist. We'll go to Shamrock on Sunset.

• 53:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So all these are drunk tattoos?

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Miss, I like the, the skater boy star was my first tattoo. I was 19 and then.

• 53:41Alex Cooper?

  Do your parents have tattoos?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  All my tattoos are. Oh, I have tattoos on my hips. Um, no, I think I'm the only one in the family, really, with a bunch of tattoos. My dad had a couple.

• 53:52Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Um, what is the hardest lesson you've ever learned about love?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  I mean, I definitely went through my, like, jaded phase, um, with my previous album called Love Sucks. Um, and I had gone into a place of, "All right, I'm just gonna, like, focus on myself, I'm gonna move to Malibu, I'm gonna build my own life for me, and I'm not gonna, like, wait for a guy or rely on a guy to, like, do that." And, um, I definitely felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. Um, I had been through, like, enough. And, um, it was definitely like, I was in a place of, like, never trust a guy again.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  And just like, you're gonna have to, like, rely on yourself. Um, but I don't feel that way today, thankfully.

• 54:48Alex Cooper?

  That's amazing.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:49Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever been cheated on?

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Have I been with a male before?

• 54:52Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Then the answer is yes. Much as anyone's ever fucked me over, which has happened a shit ton, I've always just, like, been the classy bitch and taken the high road and kept, kept it to myself.

• 55:08Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate that. Um, I think a lot of people stay in things because they're, like, nervous to start over. I think that's, like, a really normal feeling, especially for women. It's like-

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, people are fearful.

• 55:20Alex Cooper?

  Fearful. Do you have any advice of, like, how to know when to move on? And like, how to get yourself out of something that's, like, maybe comfortable, but you know you need to, like, be on your own and be single?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  It's hard when you're in something because, like, you're in it. So, you know, it's a big deal to leave a relationship. To, to change is hard, to have to step out. It requires a lot, you know? And some people can't see, like, that, that clearly. It's, like, always easier once you're, um, on the other end. But if you're not happy, you're never gonna be happy. And life is short, and you should just really get out as soon as possible so you can move on. And then, you know, have a better future for yourself. Some people like to have, like, something that they're leaving and going to. And, you know, sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and just trust that- If you're not happy, it's not a healthy relationship.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  It's not a good situation just to get out. And it's okay to have like time on your own in between if you need it. And you know, just believe and hope that something greater is out there for you. And if not, you're better off on your own than someone draining the fuck out of you.

• 56:36Alex Cooper?

  Facts. Thank you. Um, are you seeing anyone right now?

• 56:57Alex Cooper?

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• 57:25Speaker 02

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• 57:57Alex Cooper?

  Now I know even if you were, you're never gonna fucking tell me.

• 58:01Alex Cooper?

  Maybe. Okay, what do you look for in a partner?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Do you remember the years?

• 58:07Alex Cooper?

  Oh, kind of. Okay, let's try it again. Fuck, you're avoiding my question. Okay. Here.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Bottoms, bottoms.

• 58:14Alex Cooper?

  Fuck.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Okay, do it again, do it again, okay.

• 58:23Alex Cooper?

  Okay. That's pretty good.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  And are you a beer drinker?

• 58:28Alex Cooper?

  I am when I'm like, whether I'm like outside for summer, like I'm not drinking beer usually if it's like winter, but if it's like summer, I like to drink it like with Matt if I'm sitting outside with my dogs. Like, it's like a chill drink. If I'm like, oh, I don't want to be drinking tequila tonight, I will drink beer. And also in college, are you kidding me? I was drinking Matty's like a freak and like, it was bad and beer bonging and everything.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  So like any day, anytime, anytime in California, you could be a beer drinker.

• 58:59Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely, exactly. Pennsylvania?

• 59:00Speaker 01

  You should come to my house in Malibu. We'll have a beer day and play beer pong.

• 59:05Alex Cooper?

  And you'll answer some of my questions?

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Oh honey, if you only knew.

• 59:12Alex Cooper?

  April, you're giving us blue balls. Okay, what are you, okay, so you may be seeing someone, what do you look for in a partner?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Um, so I think the most important thing is finding someone that you're compatible with. Cause you could be two different, great people, but if you're not compatible, you're not gonna get along. So like, you're gonna argue. Um, so compatibility, obviously, it all just sounds cliche. Someone that is trustworthy, cause if you don't have that, you're just never gonna feel grounded in the relationship and you're gonna be spinning. Um, so that's just not healthy. I'm looking for, you know, I, a healthy relationship is ideal. Duh. Like, do we really have to say these things? They're so simple and cliche and basic, but that's what you need.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  You need compatibility, trust, like.

• 1:00:07Alex Cooper?

  Do you have a type?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  I don't think I have a type, but like, someone who's at least like, I think someone who's like me, who's like, sporty, got a, you know, a little rough around the edges, likes to have a good time, but has, is like, you know, a solid. I need someone who's like a solid that I can lean on too.

• 1:00:24Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Oh my God, would you ever date like an athlete? What about a hockey player? No. You're like, they're too... No, what about a guy from Canada that's on the, in the NHL? Come on. Wait, that's fucking perfect. No? We're done with the rappers.

• 1:00:45Alex Cooper?

  Did you ever date Tyga? You're like, get out of here. Wait, does it annoy you that every time you upload something with Tyga, people are like, is this your announcement that you're dating? Or you don't care?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Like, I didn't Google myself. Is that what it says?

• 1:00:59Alex Cooper?

  Yes, Melissa, it says.

• 1:01:04Alex Cooper?

  You're like, bitch, you really believe it? I promise I don't. What does it take for a guy to impress you on a first date?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  I think I've changed a lot in my expectations and what I am looking for because I've like,

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  you know, learned through my experiences and just, you know, I'm into something that's just like stable, healthy, fun, just well-rounded.

• 1:01:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  The shit just sounds super cheesy. That's why I don't write love songs.

• 1:01:42Alex Cooper?

  Avril, this is good. This is like therapy. Like, you can totally be happy and say happy thoughts, but then like, please keep writing bangers that like make me cry. Although like Girlfriend was like, not pop, well, that was actually not happy. That was actually dark.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  It was just like sassy and cocky. I don't like your girlfriend. I think you need a new one. I could be your girlfriend.

• 1:02:05Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  I wrote that fucking song in two minutes, that chorus. Literally two minutes. I was like putting my bookbag on, leaving the studio. It was like 11 o'clock at night and I was like,

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  play me a riff. Cause we were borrowing.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  We had this like amazing Les Paul and I was, I was talking to Luke and I was like, yo, play me something like punk rock right now. And he's like,

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  and I was like, hey, you, I don't like your girlfriend. And he's like, and we're like, no way. And he's like, think you need a new one. And I was like, hey, you, I could be your girlfriend. Literally, he puts the drums to it, two minutes, wrote that, put it on a CD.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  I got a CD, put it in my car and I took it home. I was like, this is gonna be the song of the summer.

• 1:02:48Alex Cooper?

  It was.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  And I knew it. And my body has done that to me, like with my happy ending. I said, we were in the studio, made a song. I came in after I was done singing it, sat down. They played me the song and I was like, I just got this entire feeling over my body and I just like, I can't explain it. I was like, it was like I knew it was big, but I wasn't like, this is a hit. Like I didn't like talk like that, but I was like, this is gonna be like, I could feel it. Like I knew it was gonna be a big song for me. The same with Complicated. Laying in the, in the grass in California, one of my first trips and around the orange trees with, writing with Lauren.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  And we're like, working on this song. And I just remember like sitting on the floor and I'm like, I hear this on the radio. Like I have like these really strong feelings with like some of my big songs.

• 1:03:43Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember?

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  I never had that feeling with a song that didn't like.

• 1:03:47Alex Cooper?

  That's wild.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, go to number one.

• 1:03:50Alex Cooper?

  When you came up with Complicated, was that one where you were actually like experiencing it in your life? Or you were just like, I just was kind of like, it just felt right. And I like came up with this verse and it worked.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  I had like a couple of weeks or a month with The Matrix and Lauren and I were just like getting blow drives. And like getting cupcakes at Ralph's and like sitting in the backyard and just talking. And I was just like, you know, like, I love skater boys and this is the only type of guy I'm attracted to. I will literally walk down the street and I see someone wearing big fat skate shoes. And I will look twice. And so it was like our conversations and then, you know, them as a team, working musically on stuff and us all getting together and just, Complicated, Skater Boy, I'm With You, those are the singles off the first album.

• 1:04:39Alex Cooper?

  Where were you when you wrote I'm With You?

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  We were sitting on the piano. It was like,

• 1:04:43Alex Cooper?

  That one's heartbreaking.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  That was like one of those days where you're like getting in touch with the sad, like more like depressed, like. Self and that's, that's okay. And you know, people, you know, really connected with that song. And still to this day, that's like one of my favorite songs to perform live. It's fucking powerful. Like even to me, 22 years later, I play that fucking shit on stage. I'm seeing people like, we're going from like, all the pop rock songs, everyone's like fist pumping and like losing their shit. I go into that, tears. People are like moved and it's like, you see all the different emotions. And that's why writing is important to me. Because I'm so connected to the songs. I think there's something with like my,

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  me being like super authentic in the way that like I dressed and like, wrote the songs and just the way I was and didn't give a fuck and wasn't calculated. It was all that and that people really like, um, were attracted to that and, and like connected with that.

• 1:05:46Alex Cooper?

  Well, yeah, because when you look at someone in the industry, you can literally tell like, and I'm not being like rude. It's just obvious when someone has been like constructed by like these dance moves and this song and this is, I'm like, you didn't write that song. You wouldn't wear that if a stylist, like the stylist put that on you. You can tell like you've been yourself since day one. And you've stuck up for what you believe in, literally from the fashion to your writing, to your sound, to your look, like, think I got you a straightener. Now you're happy.

• 1:06:16Alex Cooper?

  I want to see your gray hair.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I didn't want to think about what I was wearing today. And I was like, oh my God, you have this really cool like sweatline. It's called Onwell.

• 1:06:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  That's so cool. I was like, oh yeah, I just want to like pull up and like wear sweats. And instead I just wore the like shirt I was like wearing the night before. I literally wore this t-shirt for two days.

• 1:06:32Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I know. Cause when I thought you were going to wear sweats, I was like, oh my God, I would totally give you sweats, but this outfit is so cute.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  I'm gonna, I will put the sweats on and go home and veg in them for three days. Thank you.

• 1:06:45Alex Cooper?

  No, Avril, I just want to say thank you for coming because like, I had no idea what to expect, obviously meeting you. I was like, obviously hoping that we would hit it off because again, like I'm such a huge fan, but it's fascinating. And it was incredible to meet you and to like, listen to. Where you came from and your upbringing and your story and like how fucking talented you are like the way that I'm sorry like I could listen to you for 10 more hours talk about your songwriting process because again like we don't see that that often nowadays. I feel like a lot of people are just like very manufactured and you are such an artist from the start to finish. I think this tour and this album is like I'm freaking out about it. So I can imagine all of your other friends or fans are also freaking. What do you hope

• 1:07:29Alex Cooper?

  they take away from this tour when they come?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  It's just like for the fans that have been with me from day one, it's just like even for myself, it's just all the years and all the different eras and all the different phases in our in our lives from like high school to this date to that date and connecting with the songs and like you hear a song and it takes you back. I even hear like one of my songs and it takes me back to like that time of my life. It's like it's been, you know, so long. It's been 22 years and I feel like I have like another 22 ahead of me, but it's a journey of our lives. It like takes us back to high school, college, like this phase, that phase, that relationship, this summer, that summer. And that's like the power and

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  beauty in music is like it can take you right back there. You can feel it all over again. And I think it's just like a celebration of life, our lives and remembering like all the good times and music does that. And I think the shows are gonna be like super fun. I'm stoked to be going back out on tour, my seventh world tour. And I'm like so grateful to like be from a tiny little town, you know, playing hockey and skateboarding and to have been able to like write music and to have it be successful internationally and to have like to still be doing my thing today. I'm like looking forward to like growing like

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  creatively and dipping my toes in to in the, you know, other creative waters and doing film and like turning Skater Boy into a movie and like, you know, all that other stuff. So I'm super grateful, but I just want everybody to have a good time and most importantly, I want to have a good time.

• 1:09:13Alex Cooper?

  Last question, what are the top three favorite songs for you that you're gonna be performing? Like if you had to pick-

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Oh, my own song?

• 1:09:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're going out there from the album and on this tour, like, what are your top three favorites to perform? If you had to pick? I know that's hard.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny, because there's no new songs.

• 1:09:28Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  So like, I definitely want to bring a cover song in, and I recently just met up with the Green Day Boys and gave them an award at the iHeart Awards. And it's like, seeing them again, I was like, these guys are cool. Like, Dookie was one of the first CDs, like, my brother and I had, and like, they're celebrating that right now. And so like, I definitely want to do a Green Day cover. And Girlfriend is really fun. I love I'm With You, My Happy Ending.

• 1:10:02Alex Cooper?

  So good.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  And of course, Skater Boy.

• 1:10:04Alex Cooper?

  Skater Boy, boom. Avril, thank you so much.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  And maybe I'll put the tie on for you.

• 1:10:09Alex Cooper?

  Please. Send me a fucking picture.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  And you have to come out to the LA show.

• 1:10:14Alex Cooper?

  Please. Oh my, that's when you're gonna wear it. Please, like, literally, please. Like, make me feel so special.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  But you and your hubby should come to the show.

• 1:10:22Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, we would love to. I would love to come. Thank you for coming on the show. You can go to bed now, I love you.

• 1:10:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:12:04Speaker 02

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• 1:12:26Speaker 03

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