Most Fun NFL Story Lines With Peter Schrager

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Peter Schrager to talk about various NFL story lines ahead of the new season (3:00). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Peter Schrager Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Steve Ceruti This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. Get up to 40% off Back to School Essentials on Uber Eats. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:30Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast, presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. Don't forget about their fun promotion for NFL Kickoff and each of the Week 1 primetime games, which we have one, two, three, four primetime games. Anytime TD bets, you can earn a share of $2 million in bonus bets. Predict the first TD score. You can predict the last TD score. You can do it for Philly-Dallas or whatever game you want. So don't forget about that. You can win a share of bonus bets. Don't forget about the new rewatchables I put up, which was American Gangster, our 400th movie. Me, Van Lathan. Chris Ryan, uh, broke all of it down Denzel Washington, Russell Crowe. Don't forget about all of our, uh, great football coverage from Ringer Fantasy Football,

• 2:10Bill Simmons?

  Ringer NFL, uh, The Ringer Gambling Show, which is every day now live at noon ET. You can watch it live on YouTube with the guys, or you can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your platforms. Um, but we have a whole bunch of stuff coming because we have the Ringer 107 that we're launching this week. Nice little contest for all of us. I'll explain more when, uh, when House is on the last BS pod of the week. So this is going to be the third one of the week. We had Cousin Sal. We did a whole thing on Sunday. Charles Barkley was fantastic. And now we had to have this guy because the season's about to start. Uh, our guy, Peter Schrager, now at ESPN. We've not had him on during the preseason. He was getting a little antsy. So we had to like, we had, we just had to carve out an hour and do it. Uh, it's coming up right after the break.

• 2:55Bill Simmons?

  Do Pearl Jam and then, uh, our old friend, Peter Schreger. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by Fanduel and the NFL is back and thank God. Fanduel has everything. They got an awesome app. They have SGPs. They have great futures. They have good prop bets, live betting, your way bets, clean app. It's great to use. Uh, been using it for a few years. Every time I go back to Boston or any place that has Fanduel and I get to use it, I'm always excited. I'm on an airplane runway. You done the airplane runway?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25Bill Simmons?

  Everybody. Airplane runway.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  There should be a button, the runway.

• 3:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm on the airplane runway. I gotta get this in. Get your bets in, build something bold, make every game feel bigger. Download the Fanduel app or head to fanduel.com/BS to get started. The Ringer, committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-9777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut. Paid endorsement.

• 4:30Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're taping this late Tuesday afternoon. This guy has a busy schedule. He's doing a lot of stuff at ESPN, but he is still on this podcast, the king of the let's go, Peter Schrager.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Let's go. Come on, let's go. I'm so happy to be back with you. I, I texted you. I very rarely would admit this, but I was, I was fishing. I said, you know what? I've, I've done the Pablo Torre origin story. We've had Diana Rossini. We've had Kyle Branton a dozen times. Can I get back in here? And you were like, yeah, let's do it. And I

• 5:00Bill Simmons?

  I didn't know, I didn't know if you had to check for permission from mullet number two on the McAfee show or not.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Those are my guys also.

• 5:07Bill Simmons?

  I know.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  I am everybody's guy.

• 5:09Bill Simmons?

  You're everybody's guy. I don't even know where I fit in anymore. You're just, you have guys everywhere. Guys on all these different shows. You're busy as hell. They're using you all these different ways, which I'm not surprised by. You're doing great. So much to cover with the NFL season. So I don't think anything will happen before people hear this. I hope nothing happens over the next 24 hours.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 5:32Bill Simmons?

  I had a bunch of things. I only gave you heads up on one thing that I wanted to talk about. Otherwise, I'm just going to throw some shit at you. But this is the one thing I wanted to talk about because you, you know, you've, we've talked a lot about the Chiefs over the, over the last few years.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 5:48Bill Simmons?

  Mahomes has the stature of best QB in the league, the guy, and I'm with you. Like, if it's, if it's one game for my life, I'm picking him first. But he wasn't as good last year as I think people seem to think he was. And he finished fifth in the MVP voting, even though he played the whole year. Stats were down. The deep throw stuff was really bad. And you could say the supporting cast got a little worse, or you could say maybe he just didn't have a great year. Now they got killed in the Super Bowl. What kind of Mahomes year are you expecting? Are we moving into like an Albert Pujols in his 30s? Just not quite the same as good as he was in his 20s situation? Or is this a, I am taking back all prisoners? I am laying the smackdown.

• 6:32Bill Simmons?

  I am Kaiser Soze in this entire league. What's your vibe?

• 6:35Speaker 04

  It's funny because I think it, this season could go one of two ways. It could go the former where it's, all right, this is Albert Pujols. This is one of those other players that we have seen who just hits the cliff and it's still very good. Just isn't in that thing, or it's scorched earth. I would say this, everyone I speak with in Kansas City, and I know your listeners love when I give this because it's always means it's going to be positive. This guy is locked the fuck in. And it has been rampage season all summer of like, we're taking this thing back. And whether that's just big talk or not, I look at last year, he was playing catch with Sky Moore. Xavier Worthy was in his first season. Justin Watson was like his number two option.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Mecole Hardman and DeAndre Hopkins, who let's be honest, still has a great red zone target, but was not a true number one weapon. And they still went to the Super Bowl. And this year he gets Xavier Worthy. He gets Rashid Rice for at least some of the season. Rejuvenated Kelsey and a healthy Hollywood Brown. Like I, I think the options and the weapons are significantly better and they still lost.

• 7:44Bill Simmons?

  Kelsey going this way.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Trending that way.

• 7:46Bill Simmons?

  Pushing my head down. Yeah.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  Trending that way.

• 7:49Bill Simmons?

  So that's, that's, that would be the one thing I would be like, all right, when Mahomes was at his apex.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, 50 touchdowns.

• 7:55Bill Simmons?

  He has one of the best receiving tight ends in the history of mankind. And now that guy is moving into a different phase of his career.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  No doubt. And Tyree Kill and him were, we're going to look back and say, you know what? Like we only got a few years of that. We should have gotten more years of that because the two of them were electric. Kelsey is an interesting one because his numbers were there last year at the end and they still sustained and they had big catches and they needed, again, they lost one regular season game last season until that final, you know, week 18, whatever with Denver.

• 8:24Bill Simmons?

  I know, but you were, you were there for all those games. I mean, each game had one player where it's like, wow, that happened. They lose that.

• 8:30Speaker 04

  It wasn't flashy, but he found a way to win.

• 8:32Bill Simmons?

  It was never dominant or anything awesome, but.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Look, last year he was not going to win you a fantasy league. He's not going to be the analytics darling, but like, like you said. Two minutes left, he still found a way every single time and made the clutch play until the Super Bowl when the wheels fell off. And then that left me and everyone else thinking, all right, is the chapter closed? Like, Kelsey, I, this is, it hasn't been reported, like, Kelsey was in the, he was not himself in that Super Bowl. He also was under the weather. He also was truly like a shell of himself in that game. So he isn't the one coming out saying, hey, I was sick. But I know from chief sources that he was not himself because he wasn't 100%.

• 9:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, let's be honest, like, the healthiest Kelsey ever, they still got killed in that game. They couldn't block the Eagles. That's it. Point blank.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Yes. And they, they add Simmons, who I think is going to be good eventually. Obviously, he's a rookie, as an offensive tackle. And they feel good. Like, I don't, look, I don't know if he's ever gonna put up 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns ever again. I don't know if it's possible for him to do it with just whatever it is. I do think Josh Allen could still do that. I do think Baker could still do that in what they have in their offenses right now. The Chiefs are gonna be great. Mahomes, is he coming out here? Look, if I had to put my, my hand up and say, is he gonna win MVP because of his stats and all that? I, I don't know if he's my pick to win MVP. I do know that the Tuesday after the Super Bowl, he was like Michael Jordan in the gym in Last Dance, working out with

• 10:02Speaker 04

  the guys and encouraging them to get in the, in the gym. And he didn't just cut his hair. He's been working out ferociously and what felt like a big off season because, you know, he was out and about and they opened a steakhouse and whatever else. They have been working and they are dialed in and Andy has gotten them back in the lab. So.

• 10:22Bill Simmons?

  But when you, when you talk to, you talk to a million people.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:27Bill Simmons?

  And it feels like as we headed to this year, there's four QBs that are ascending above everybody else. And then Jaden Daniels as like.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Hovering.

• 10:34Bill Simmons?

  Can you wait here in the, in the, can you just wait? The bouncer will let you in if we've decided to let you in. The way he gets in is if he goes 12 and 5 again with a much harder schedule and a team that, you know, probably went sideways from a talent standpoint. A year ago, we would have said, all right, Mahomes here.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 10:53Bill Simmons?

  And then this next group. When you talk to other, other people in the league.

• 10:59Bill Simmons?

  Do they think somebody else is the best QB? Do they think it's him? Do they think it's a group? Like, what is that? What are the different reactions?

• 11:05Speaker 04

  It's the group of four. And I think maybe we're just putting them all in the same conversation and we're not valuing enough the, the, the, the stuff that doesn't come up in the stat sheet. So I have Mahomes as one because of the clutch moments, because that's what we have been trained to, to treasure and to value in our quarterbacks. We treasure and value who wins on the road? Who wins in the AFC Championship games? Who wins when you're down? Who's the guy you want the ball in? But statistically, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are, are better than Patrick Mahomes. So it's this classic individual versus the, the, the stats versus the non stats. So like, give me an NBA comparison.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  Adrian Dantley fills the, fills the stat sheet. You never put them in the same conversation as Magic Johnson. And yet-

• 11:54Bill Simmons?

  But this was Brady versus Manning 20 years ago. Brady had the three Super Bowls. Manning had better stats.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  And Manning had the MVPs.

• 12:00Bill Simmons?

  And I was arguing over for Brady, Brady, Brady over again. I guess my issue is, or not my issue, because I think this is a fun argument.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  It's a great argument.

• 12:10Bill Simmons?

  I just think if I'm taking a quarterback for 22 weeks and I could have any QB in the league, I think I'm picking Josh.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  I think I am too.

• 12:19Bill Simmons?

  And if I'm taking one guy for-

• 12:20Speaker 04

  And that's crazy for me to say.

• 12:21Bill Simmons?

  If I'm taking a guy for, this is now the most pressure we've ever had. It's a fourth quarter. It's a tie game. Who do I want for 30 minutes?

• 12:31Speaker 04

  Take him, Mahomes.

• 12:31Bill Simmons?

  I think I would take Mahomes. But I just think, to me, Allen is like LeBron in the late 2000s now. It's like, I don't even care who's on his team. I don't know who was, you can't even name the weapons he had last year, other than James Cook was really good down the stretch. But I just think he's a guaranteed now 12 to 13 wins and he's going to be heard from in the playoffs. And I don't know if you can say that about Mahomes based on, on how that playoffs ended. I thought they could have lost to Houston, that they probably should have lost to Buffalo. They got killed by Philly. So it's a good one. It's, it's the kind of thing, if you want to be the GOAT or you want to be the best guy in your generation, you kind of need to get kicked in the teeth a little bit to bounce back and be like, all right, I'll show everybody. Brady certainly needed it.

• 13:11Speaker 04

  Brady needed it and Brady had an 07 season where he was like, all right, if Peyton's the individual that you guys all think and Peyton's the guy and he just won the Super Bowl. Here, I'm gonna go scorched earth and break all these offensive records. Does Mahomes have that in him right now? He's already done that. Can he do it again at 30? I don't know, honestly. And I don't, I don't know if in the NFL and like history, like last year Baker threw for 5,000 yards. Are we talking about Baker? I don't know if stats matter as much in football as they do in baseball or they do in the NBA.

• 13:41Bill Simmons?

  Wins matter and Mahomes is getting the wins.

• 13:43Speaker 04

  And that's right. And that's it. It's the ultimate team sport in a different way. So we look at Lamar, like Lamar statistically last year had as good a season as anyone's ever had in football. I will never remember Lamar Jackson's 2024 as a special season because it came up short and because he was the third quarterback in the AFC, not even, maybe the fourth, maybe behind Burrow because Burrow's stats were as good if not better. Mahomes, I'll remember. Mahomes took that team and they won, again, Carolina game, like they're winning by three, to your point. They're playing the Raiders. They're basically, they're barely getting by on a Black Friday game. And it's like, what is going on with this team? And yet they find a way.

• 14:19Bill Simmons?

  It never felt that good. Yeah, it's, it's a weird one because like, you know, LeBron, who was the best player in the NBA for a long time, but didn't win the MVP after 2013. And there were, there were real reasons for that because it was either he didn't play full season, he had injuries, or he was mad at the team and didn't really try for three weeks. There was always like something, he didn't play enough games. The NFL, like Mahomes played the whole season last year and he was, and we watched the whole season and we're like, you're fifth. So that's why I wonder like how much of it, do you think he reads this stuff? Does he care?

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 14:55Bill Simmons?

  So you think he does? He's one of those like, I know what people are saying, guys.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  This is LeBradford Smith shit. Like, yes, like he sees it all and knows it all. And a couple of years ago, the NFL Network put him fourth on the top 100 list and he scores a touchdown against Lamar and he's seen doing one, two, three, four and does a shrug. Like that stuff is so, he sees it, he reads it and he's motivated by it all. I honestly, I think he's got this like otherworldly competitiveness and killer instinct to him that maybe wasn't valued enough in the pre-draft process because he played for a losing Texas Tech team.

• 15:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  But like Kingsbury will tell me that like this, this has always been Pat and we just didn't surround him with enough and he would have won maybe two games if he wasn't the quarterback and they ended up winning what eight or seven every season at Texas Tech. He's got this killer instinct and he and Andy Reid, that's the thing like you start realizing it's not just one-on-one and it makes for great talk radio and podcast stuff, but at the end of the day, it's coach and offense as well. So are you taking Sean McDermott and Josh Allen, Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow, John Harbaugh, who has shown that in these big games, there are some head scratching decisions and Lamar, or Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes? It's a package deal and the two of them together are still going to reign supreme over those other three combos.

• 16:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you think like he had that whole Tyreek section. Tyreek was one of the best field tilters we've had at receiver this century.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 16:27Bill Simmons?

  And then you have Kelsey, who's been the best receiving tight end in the last 10 years. So he had those guys in his formative years and now this feels like he's still in that 2006 Brady area where you're just kind of carrying the supporting cast that's not quite good enough.

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Or the 07 LeBron when it's like Anderson Varejo and you know, Ilgauskas and whoever else that he had out there.

• 16:48Bill Simmons?

  I just think Allen, I thought he was so good last year.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  He was amazing.

• 16:53Bill Simmons?

  And that the last piece of this, I picked Buffalo over Green Bay to win the Super Bowl and I really, really it's a pick on like, I think that guy's a special player and at some point, a guy that good is going to have to win a title. It's just the way the NBA works. I think it's the way the NFL works for the most part.

• 17:11Speaker 04

  He's knocked on the door, right? Like, and that's what we always need. You need to knock on the door and he's done it so many times. There are a couple of other things like. Last year, we're gonna get that stadium, right? Like, it just, it feels like this is like, alright, Buffalo's been ascending, ascending, ascending. He feels like the guy. And it just feels like the torch is ready for him to just grab it. When you picked Buffalo, and I heard you do it, when you went to sleep at night, did you wake up and have any second thoughts on it? Because that matters to me. If you're like, ah, did I really just pick against Mahomes? You felt comfortable with going?

• 17:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, here's the big thing for the Mahomes thing this year is the schedule, combined with that, their division, I think, the Chargers, I have the Chargers as the worst team in the division, other people would have Vegas, but it's just not a walkover like it used to be. And then you have all these night games, all these other stuff. And I, I took note of, um, and I think they're the most interesting team to talk about out of all the teams. I took note of some of the stuff they talked about during the Super Bowl last year about the grind of it and just 22 weeks a year of, of this bullseye and, uh, and how, what didn't feel as special to be in the Super Bowl this year. And like, weird shit that you say when you've just been, you know.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  They were exhausted. They were exhausted. And I'll, I'll add this, like, Pacheco played in the playoffs, they were like, Isaiah Pacheco was a huge, huge part of that offense. He goes down in week two and they have to pick up Kareem Hunt off the scrap heap. And they won 17 games with Kareem Hunt and Samaje Perrine as the running backs. Pacheco's back, Pacheco's healthy. And I know you've already done your fantasy draft and you've had your fantasy podcasts, like, please, everybody, take Pacheco, trust me on this. Pacheco is ready to go. And that is a huge piece to their offense also. So they get back guys. Hollywood Brown is healthy. Uh, you know, Rice and Worthy, I, I just feel like, for the Chiefs, it's, yes, they hit the wall and it eventually caught up with them and they were sneaking by, sneaking by,

• 19:13Speaker 04

  sneaking by. But this was like a hard reset and they feel a lot better about their team coming into the season now than they did at the end of the season last year.

• 19:20Bill Simmons?

  I had Denver winning the AFC West over them, but then be having the same record. And Denver is now like the sexiest.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  Isn't it?

• 19:28Bill Simmons?

  But I hate it.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  I hate it too.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  But is it realistic to you that Denver could have a slight of, upper hand over Casey in the West?

• 19:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. I, I, I, yeah. And like, I talked to Sean today and he Peyton, sorry, first name basis. It's like when Collinsworth just calls him Patrick, you know, that's me talking about Sean. But Peyton and I spoke today and I said, all right, two days, three days away. Like what, what are you thinking? And he's like, here's the deal. This is what he told his team. He's like, they're every, every team has a book on them and some books are small. Some books are medium, some books are like big. The Denver Broncos franchise is one of those teams that has like a big book. There's a lot of chapters. You have the orange crush. You've got Elway, then you've got Peyton Manning, like you've got this big book.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  And he's like, we have the chance to add a really cool chapter to this franchise's history. You guys, it's all here. Like there are only a few crown jewel franchises. Denver Broncos are one of them and it's all there. They're the number one rated defense last year. The quarterback, if you listen to Peyton, like he talks about him as if this guy can do no wrong. And they added a whole new running back room that they're very excited about. That said, there are expectations now. Last year they snuck up on everybody. You and I had them in the playoffs. We did before the season.

• 20:49Bill Simmons?

  It was the easy schedule, you know, newish coach bunch that we, we liked, but it was also keeping our fingers crossed that Bo Nix was competent, which he was.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  He was.

• 20:58Bill Simmons?

  No idea, we had no idea to know, but we felt relatively confident.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  And you take Peyton's word for it. Now Peyton's 61 years old. He's been doing this for a long time and he's like, this is one of the best teams I've ever had. Like I, I love this group. So the negative.

• 21:15Bill Simmons?

  I told you, I told you about when I did my talent rankings, I was shocked just how much talent they have.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  It's everywhere.

• 21:21Bill Simmons?

  I don't think people realize.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  And, and like they had the number one defense last year and they added pieces. And here's the, here's the thing that scares you. What scares you is that every NFL media outlet came through to Denver. And whether it be the aforementioned Russini, or it be ESPN, or it be K Adams and FanDuel, whoever, they all leave and they say, that's the team. That scares me because

• 21:49Bill Simmons?

  But this was Detroit last year.

• 21:51Speaker 04

  It was.

• 21:52Bill Simmons?

  Right. And Detroit went 15 and 2 and then the wheels came off, but they had some bad luck.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  They had injuries and also they handled the expectations. Can Denver handle the expectations? Because now you're not the hunters, you're the hunted, especially, I mean, I was talking with McCordy last week. Jason McCordy, who I love, and he's like, I've got, he's like, I've got Denver winning the AFC West. I'm like, all right. I walk away. I talked to four other people. They're like, I got Denver winning the AFC West. I feel like more people have Denver winning the AFC West than they do the Chiefs right now.

• 22:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  That to me is crazy.

• 22:25Bill Simmons?

  Still three to one on Fandel. But yeah, I think it's 50 50 with the, with the schedule the Chiefs have. Combined with just the talent thing where you look at both sides, coaching staffs are both really good. But I think the reason I wanted to lead with this, talking to you, because we haven't really talked in a couple of months on the pod is I think KC versus Denver is the most interesting of all the big picture storylines. You can give me anything else, but I, you know, the way last year where we were like the NFC North. And maybe we thought it was going to be Chicago instead of Minnesota. We were like, the NFC North, it feels like that's going to be driving a lot of story for us this year. I think it's going to be the AFC West, whether Denver can be a real team.

• 23:06Bill Simmons?

  And then combined with the Baltimore Buffalo, KC Denver, like those four, they, those might be four of the best five teams in the league. Along with Philly.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Do, yeah. Do you put Cincinnati anywhere near there?

• 23:17Bill Simmons?

  Nowhere near, not even like

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Cause I, I do.

• 23:20Bill Simmons?

  They're not even in, oh, you're, what, what, what's the case for that with their defense?

• 23:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:25Bill Simmons?

  And their offensive line?

• 23:27Speaker 04

  I think big picture, they got everything done this off season that you could have asked for and bringing back those two receivers, healthy Borough. And they could light it up. They're going to be a pain in the ass to play. You're going to have to score 35 points to beat them every week. And I don't know if a lot of teams can do that.

• 23:38Bill Simmons?

  You're going to be able to with their defense.

• 23:40Speaker 04

  You're going to have to though.

• 23:43Bill Simmons?

  That's it. Let's uh, let's take a break and I have the other big storyline that you uniquely qualified to discuss. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting the leadership of a team captain on the football field, but getting a C captain? Sure, they're both captains, but who's going to run your offense? You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team. So don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Parents, if there's one thing you deserve to make it easier on yourself, it's back to school season. I know that's how I feel as well. On Uber Eats, you can

• 24:28Bill Simmons?

  get up to 40% off back to school essentials like notebooks, pencils, calculators. You got lunch boxes to fill? Get discounts on fresh fruit, juice boxes, string cheese, and more. Get everything you need for back to school delivered right to you, just a tap away in the Uber Eats app. Offer ends September 16th. See app for details. All right. You don't know anything else we're talking about because you don't need to because you've been doing this nonstop. So it took me a while to come around on this and I talked about it last week when we did the Bears, Sal and I, and I was saying I was over. I think they're a playoff team. It just seems like the Ben Johnson, all of it, the hype,

• 25:11Bill Simmons?

  which I was resistant of, you know, I always, I always want to zag if there's a zag. I've just been really impressed with everything I've read and heard this whole training camp. Give me your best Ben Johnson will be immediately awesome case. Like that he will immediately ascend to the McShay, LaFleur, Shanahan, Andy, like that he will get there right away this season.

• 25:38Speaker 04

  He chose to come here and he leaned in so hard and didn't have to. He could have taken the Washington job last year. He decided to punt on that at the last second. The story is actually crazy. He was on a plane, a private jet last year. Uh, or I'm sorry, the Washington brass, Josh Harris and the executives were all on a plane, the private jet to go court him and finalize a deal with the one. And then while they're in the flight, they find out over Twitter that he's backing out and they land and he's like, guys, I'm sorry, I'm staying in Detroit. So could have had that job, could have had Carolina, I think two years ago. David Tepper loved him and he was a North Carolina guy.

• 26:16Bill Simmons?

  Good whiff on that one.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, look, he's calling his plays like, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. Any team, he could have had any job this year. I know everyone will say, no, actually, no, he could have had any job. He made it very clear. He wanted one job. He wanted the Chicago job. And in his opening press conference, he's like, I can't wait to beat Matt LaFleur. And I texted LaFleur because I'm like, that's funny. You guys obviously know each other. LaFleur is like, I don't know that guy. I have no relationship with that guy. That's crazy that he would call me out in his press conference by name, but like, he wanted that. He chooses to, he chooses to coach against the Lions, the team he just spent six seasons with and slicing up, you know, the rest of the NFC North. It's like, no, no, I'll go up against them. And then the last team, he goes up against a Vikings team where Brian

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Flores was hired as the head coach of the Miami Dolphins and had this, had this staff and one of the holdovers was Ben Johnson. And Brian Flores is like, I don't need this guy. We're good. Like, we'll move on. And Ben Johnson's like, all right, I guess I'll find another job and wasn't retained by Brian Flores. Flores is now defensive coordinator of the Vikings. Ben Johnson brings to Chicago all of this with like this giant chip on his shoulder and

• 27:25Bill Simmons?

  So he's got a chip on his shoulder against two of the teams and then knows the third team exceptionally well.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  Exceptionally well and could have chosen to taken the soft AFC team in Jacksonville or wherever else and said, okay, I'll just get paid a bunch of money somewhere else and not take on this challenge. The last piece, he wanted to work with Caleb Williams and not everyone necessarily after that first season would want that. If you're the offensive genius and you're the boy wonder, you might say, give me a more established quarterback that I can work with, or let me pick my own quarterback that I can work with, like Cliff did with Kyler or whatever else in the history of offensive coaches taking new jobs. He give me Caleb because I'll coach, I'll coach him hard and Caleb's big thing is like, he's never been great with timing. Like it's always been off script

• 28:13Speaker 04

  and Caleb like likes to work and be freestyle and like that is not what Ben Johnson's offense is. Ben Johnson's offenses, hey Jared Goff, here is the, here's the play, here's the first look, here's a second look, play action, go. You're not doing it on a shotgun and Caleb's got to rewire his whole brain. And from what I hear out of Chicago, it's working. Again.

• 28:34Bill Simmons?

  Well, wasn't they doing the thing where he threw a lot at him and then he started scaling it back?

• 28:38Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 28:38Bill Simmons?

  And they actually felt. So that's legit. Cause then, you know, you read this training camp stuff. You never know what.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  Well, everyone's going to be amazing at a training camp. That's what we hear. So you gotta read it with a filter. In this case, like, all right, so Mike Martz, I was brought, someone brought up Mike Martz recently was like, Mike Martz, offensive mastermind, kind of like a, like sit in the lab and not exactly a social butterfly, maybe not the best communicator.

• 29:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  Mike Martz becomes head coach of the Rams. They go to one Super Bowl and then it, you know, never happens again for him. And he's just an offensive coordinator. It's just what he was. This guy, a lot of people immediately thought was some bookish nerd, just sits there and draws up plays. He's not like, he's not, he's not, he's not a nerd. He's not a geek. He's not a guy who sits in the lab all day long and can't talk. Like he's a guy and he's a dude and he, from what I hear in Chicago has established that pretty quickly. Like they're not going to play just air raid football and this guy's going to draw up fancy plays where the offensive lineman goes in motion. No, they're going to run the ball down your throat and he's also going to do that stuff. And then he's going to talk some smack on the way. Also, I said on ESPN a couple of weeks ago

• 29:50Speaker 04

  that he's the most interesting person in the NFL this season because if he can revitalize, not just the Bears to a winning team, we've seen them win and go to the playoffs last couple of years, but if he can make the Bears like a fun and sexy offensive team where we're like, oh shit, I've got to watch the Bears on red zone or oh, I'm gonna, you and Sal always talk about the four screens and what you're choosing. Like they're going to be one of my teams every week.

• 30:13Bill Simmons?

  Have to be there. Yeah, yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  That, that is a totally new chapter for them. And I think with Ben Johnson, they can do that.

• 30:19Bill Simmons?

  Are the two weapons that they drafted both going to have huge impacts?

• 30:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  Loveland's already getting drafted. Like he's a top 10 tight end.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. And they took him before Tyler Warren and they had options to take a lot of.

• 30:31Bill Simmons?

  About that one.

• 30:31Speaker 04

  I know. And they could have taken, they could have taken wide receivers like. Off topic a little bit, like I've heard Ibuka out there in Tampa Bay is already like the captain of the team and Baker's absolutely in love with him and he's gonna be right out of the gates like a guy that they're gonna feature in the offense. I haven't heard that with Loveland yet, but that's because they have DJ Moore and they have Burden and they have the two running backs. And I don't know in that offense if it's gonna be tight end focused, but if you look at the way Ben Johnson used Laporta, I would think that they're gonna feature him heavily.

• 31:06Bill Simmons?

  So if you had to say three NFC North teams make the playoffs and one does not, who is your does not?

• 31:14Speaker 04

  The Chicago Bears.

• 31:16Bill Simmons?

  Still, you have them fourth.

• 31:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, I do.

• 31:19Bill Simmons?

  All right. So what's the Minnesota case?

• 31:21Speaker 04

  The Minnesota case is that they might have the best roster in football besides that quarterback and that quarterback might be awesome. We just don't know. The balls on Kwesi, the GM and Kevin O'Connell to move on from Darnold when you could have easily franchise tagged him or paid him what he's making in Seattle to move on and say, we're better off with a guy that we've seen throw three preseason passes is a crazy decision, but they are so convicted in this that I have to believe that they believe they can win with this guy right out of the gates. So JJ McCarthy, giant X factor.

• 31:55Bill Simmons?

  Forty million for Darnold. Instead, they keep, they just basically use the QB money for JJ, which rookie scale. Take the 40 million for Darnold.

• 32:04Speaker 04

  Spread it out.

• 32:04Bill Simmons?

  Give a couple to a backup and then you get like four starters out of it, basically.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, more or less. And then I thought, all right, let's see JJ McCarthy and maybe they sign Aaron Rodgers to a minimum deal and Rodgers probably would have been open to that. And they're like, no, like, no, we're good. We're going with JJ McCarthy.

• 32:20Bill Simmons?

  It's a pretty big spot for that dude, though. It reminds me of the Arch Manning, all the hype he got all summer. And then it's like, all right, now, noon, Saturday at Ohio State. Go knock yourself out like it's, I don't know, it's a pretty big spot.

• 32:36Speaker 04

  And guess what?

• 32:37Bill Simmons?

  Couple of those.

• 32:38Speaker 04

  Monday Night Football in Chicago, that's about the same kind of platform as Arch is having, where you're going to have a pregame show all day long and everyone's looking at it. And you've got Ben Johnson on the other sideline. I guess I trust K O C and Flores in a way that I just don't know from the Bears, what we're going to get yet. So I would say any other division, I could argue that the Bears could, could compete. You know, at least like this division is a gauntlet.

• 33:06Bill Simmons?

  You're not obeying the three and three out rule, which might even be the two and two out rule.

• 33:10Speaker 04

  I know.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  Somebody's got to, it's, we're not just running it back with three NFC North playoff teams. Again, the same three.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  I do think.

• 33:17Bill Simmons?

  I feel like one of them has to flip.

• 33:18Speaker 04

  I think the Lions do take a step back. I, and I think it's because of Ben Johnson. I think he's incredible and his ingenuity and the way he used Jameer Gibbs and the way they got Penny Sewell in motion and the way that they got open all these guys and use all the, I think they're really going to miss that. And I don't know if John Morton, who's a long time NFL coach, this isn't like they, you know, elevated some 28 year old that they feel good on like John Morton's been around for 30 years. I don't know if he's got the ingenuity and the spunk and all that that Ben Johnson had. And I, I hate saying this about Jared Goff, because here's Jared Goff, who took a Rams team to the Super Bowl, took the Lions to an NFC championship game into a one seed last year, and we're still, after all these Pro Bowls and his name being chanted to the draft,

• 34:00Speaker 04

  I still kind of like, without McVay or Ben Johnson in his ear, like I still kind of don't know what that looks like with John Morton as the O C. So I might put an asterisk on the Lions. I might just go two teams and say it's Vikings Packers out of the NFC North this year.

• 34:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, and weaker offensive line too.

• 34:19Bill Simmons?

  I said this to Sal, like, I don't know who the year from hell team is yet, but we're going to have one. And if you're doing FanDuel odds on that, they're probably the odds on favorite. But I, I think the fact that the Chargers have already lost, you know, one of the three best guys in their team, they're a candidate and maybe somebody else. But last year was pretty easy to look at the Niners and be like, ah.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. The IU thing was just gross all summer and we didn't know what was up with Trent Williams. Like, so that's an interesting team. I heard you guys talking about it when you and Sal were doing all the NFC over and under. Like, what's your, what's your 30 seconds on the Niners?

• 34:56Bill Simmons?

  Ambivalence? Like, just

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Don't know, right?

• 35:00Bill Simmons?

  Winning six games last year and then losing a shitload of veterans and then people are going, no, they're gonna be good again because they have Kyle Shanahan and Ayuk's coming back in October and McCaffrey might play. I just don't really see the case. It feels to me like there's more arrow pointing down potential than arrow pointing up. I don't really know, but I just know that I like Seattle more. And I think after, that's one of my big week one plays is I just think Seattle's gonna be good and I'm in the minority. I know it's a nobody believes in us thing, but I just trust, I think they're, I think they're just like steadier than this Niners thing, which is like all over the map. I don't know what I'm getting. Are they gonna be able to block? Are they gonna have a pass rush?

• 35:45Bill Simmons?

  It's, when are their receivers gonna all be healthy? Am I getting 12 games out of McCaffrey?

• 35:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:51Bill Simmons?

  And like The schedule is the only case. It's like their schedule is easy. Okay, cool.

• 35:55Speaker 04

  Great. They cut, they cut Kyle Juszczyk and it was like, ooh, it looks like they're changing the look of this team. Kittle's contract was still not finished. I'm like, what are they, are they gonna move on from Kittle? Like, and then they were like, no, actually, we're gonna re-sign Kyle Juszczyk. Then we're gonna extend Kittle to a monster deal, like legit money for Kittle at this stage in his career. And then, oh, we're also gonna give money to Purdy and Fred Warner and we still got Ayuk and we're gonna bring back Sala. It was almost like, hey, fuckers, like, we were, we were in, we were in the Super Bowl less than, you know, 18 months ago. Like chill, chill out. Like, don't, don't, don't give up on us yet. So the conviction of John Lynch to not just say, all right, let's do a little changing

• 36:38Speaker 04

  of the guard here, let's get younger, but to bring back all those guys tells me that they think they can still compete. And oddly enough, I'm not a big gambling guy. I see the, the odds, they're still the favorites in the NFC West. And I guess that's because of the schedule, but to say that they're the favorites over the Rams is crazy to me.

• 36:54Bill Simmons?

  Right. Okay. That was gonna be the next thing I asked you about. Matthew Stafford, God only knows.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't either.

• 37:02Bill Simmons?

  The left tackle seems like he's okay. He's scheduled to maybe play. So you have uncertainty with the quarterback and the left tackle, like real uncertainty. And yet I still picked them to make the playoffs because it's just like, and you were the one who was kind of talking me into the Garoppolo piece of it, that you felt like that is about as good of an insurance policy as anyone has. So make the case.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, for the, for the Bill Simmons Reddit folks who don't think you and I talk all the time, we still talk on text all the time. And we were talking about the Rams and I said, this guy, Garoppolo, can still win 10 games if they need him to. And when they played with the Cowboys in these inter camp practices, to a man, both sides said, he lit up the Cowboys defense was going up and down the field and he and Devante, which everyone assumes because of what was said on the wide receiver documentary hate each other. They're great. They're also adults and have made a ton of money and are like, let's just go win football games and try to get a Super Bowl. So with Stafford out, Garoppolo was under center and McVeigh was like telling me Jimmy G. Looks awesome. So at the very

• 38:09Speaker 04

  least, they have a capable backup that they know they can win games with if Stafford is unavailable. And I hate saying this because Cooper Cup has been a great player and has a triple crown winner and all this thing. They view Devante Adams as a big upgrade from what they had of Cooper Cup last year. So now you have Devante Adams, Pukunakua, Tutu Atwell, Karen Williams, and at quarterback, you hope Matthew Stafford at 37 can stay healthy. And if he isn't and has to miss a few games, you're not going to Brett Ripley in like they did a couple of years ago. You're going to Jimmy Garoppolo, who is a serviceable quarterback in this league.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  Okay. It's really hard to bet against McVeigh winning nine or 10 games.

• 38:48Speaker 04

  And dude, verse.

• 38:49Bill Simmons?

  With an easy schedule, by the way, with an easy schedule.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  Yes. And that defense was awesome down the stretch last year. You know, they were one pressure away from playing in an NFC championship game against the commanders. And you know, they got to Stafford and that was that. But like, they were in that game with the Eagles. They were the only team that competed with the Eagles in the playoffs last year. They had them on the ropes in the snow and they came up short.

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  And then you have the 2025 hipster champs, the Arizona Cardinals.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  Everybody's team. Geez.

• 39:18Bill Simmons?

  I don't get it.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  I don't either.

• 39:20Bill Simmons?

  I freely admit I don't understand it. I don't think from a talent standpoint, they have as much talent as the other teams in the division. I don't, I was there last season. I thought they had a chance a couple of times to maybe make a run and then would just have a terrible loss. I'm not a Kyler guy, as I've mentioned many times, and I just, I have them fourth in that division. I don't really get it.

• 39:43Speaker 04

  So do I, and maybe we're wrong. And maybe this shows up on old takes exposed, or someone digs this clip up and is like, see, told you guys, but like.

• 39:51Bill Simmons?

  I'm not worried about that one.

• 39:53Speaker 04

  I don't see it. I don't. And I think it's a competitive NFC. The way it is for me, it's like, the best coaches are in the NFC and the best quarterbacks are in the AFC. So I, let's, are you gonna, if you're gonna win that NFC West, you're gonna have to out coach McVay, you're gonna have to out coach Shanahan, and then you're gonna have to also out coach Sala and Chris Shula, who are the defensive coordinators. And oh, by the way, Mike McDonald did a pretty good job in his first year, and they love Kubiak as a new offensive coordinator. Like, that's really good coaching staff. So Jonathan Gannon, like, year three, you should be competing. You should be doing it. And if we're wrong, we're wrong. But I don't, I don't know if they have the talent, and I don't know if they've got all

• 40:35Speaker 04

  that goes into actually competing for a playoff spot in a loaded NFC.

• 40:40Bill Simmons?

  I don't see the case. Who was your nobody believes in us contender this year? And I know you're doing some prediction stuff on ESPN.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:48Bill Simmons?

  Last year was the Washington.

• 40:50Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 40:51Bill Simmons?

  Former Redskins, now commanders. And I remember us talking about it, and I couldn't get there to them as a playoff team, but they checked a lot of boxes for the, for the bump. Nobody had them in the playoffs. Nobody in the planet had them go to the NFC title game. So who is the team this year? Who does nobody believe in?

• 41:10Speaker 04

  Okay, so last year, there were two teams that I had that I was very high on, and it was the Broncos and the commanders. And I kinda puffed my chest out all season about that. This year, I have a team that literally nobody on earth, including their fans, seemed to be in on, and I kinda like them to shock everyone and compete in their division. The Miami Dolphins are very intriguing to me.

• 41:34Bill Simmons?

  This is a good one. You're right. Nobody believes in the Dolphins. I mean, that it's like, this is everybody's, this team's gonna suck team.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  Mike McDaniel has been hearing it all offseason that he's on the hot seat and that this thing is kaput. Tua Tonga Vaialoa has heard it all offseason that he sucks and he can't get over the hump and he can't win in cold weather. Tyreek Waddle, guess what? I know guys with the Dolphins, they love Tua and Tua's really good with them. That is as good a 1-2 in the league outside of Cincinnati that you're gonna find. And McDaniel can still put up 40, 50 points with his offense. Achan, great running back, and their defense did not have their two best players last year in Phillips and Chubb. They get them back and you get Chop Robinson in year two. I know they lost a lot. I

• 42:27Speaker 04

  get it. And maybe Jalen Ramsey is the greatest cornerback of his generation. Maybe he's not. But Jalen Ramsey is out and with Jalen Ramsey being out is you have a bunch of young guys who are gonna step up and the locker room is maybe a little different than it was last year with a lot of veteran guys. I like Mike McDaniel with a chip on his shoulder. I like Mike McDaniel knowing that he's got his guys on the field and I like the fact that absolutely nobody, including the most diehard Dolphins fans, are riding with this team. I'll take them. I'll take the Dolphins. Are they gonna win the AFC East? Probably not. Can they compete for a wild card? You better believe it.

• 43:06Bill Simmons?

  Over/under is still 7.5.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  Take the over, folks.

• 43:10Bill Simmons?

  So legitimately bad defensive backs.

• 43:14Speaker 04

  We don't know that.

• 43:16Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say they're bad.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  We don't know that.

• 43:19Bill Simmons?

  Considering they've been still scrambling to try to sign guys to potentially throw out there. They don't have a single shutdown anybody on there. I mean, Fitzpatrick's there.

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Make a back there.

• 43:28Bill Simmons?

  And the offensive line.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  Young.

• 43:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it shades of the Pats last year. Like, it might be bad, bad.

• 43:38Speaker 04

  Look, I know.

• 43:38Bill Simmons?

  So those two things worry me. Then you have Tyreek.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Those are major things. I get it.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  I have no idea where Tyreek's head is at. They removed his captaincy, which I thought was interesting. Waddle's already banged up. The running back situation, it's gotten to the point that Ollie Gordon has gotten buzzed in some of the deeper leagues.

• 43:56Speaker 04

  I'm an Ollie Gordon guy.

• 43:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So I don't know. Like, to me, it's like, are they going to be better? Are they more talented than the Patriots?

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think they do have more talent on the roster than the Patriots still. The coaching.

• 44:10Bill Simmons?

  I like your case. Your case is pristine.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  Look, this team.

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  Because you're the only one who believes in them that I've heard.

• 44:16Speaker 04

  And that's where I like to hitch my wagon. Give me that team. And I'll tell you, this team will embody Mike McDaniel. And you might say, well, what the hell does that mean? It means high-powered offense, fast, let's get the ball out, let's go. And like, the noise of like, you know, all the shit that's been going on this offseason, they had 100% participation this offseason. And that's the first time I could say that's happened in Dolphins' like, recent history. And as much as we all say, like, last year was terrible, like, they went 6-2 after starting 2-6. Like, they finished the season strong last year. So.

• 44:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  I don't know. I look at this team. Two years ago, they were a playoff team. Injuries hit them. They went into Kansas City in the coldest game ever. It was played on Peacock. And everyone just remembers Andy Reid's frozen mustache. That wasn't a good draw. The year before that, they were awesome all season. They get hit with the injury bug and they had to go to Buffalo. And it's Skylar Thompson at quarterback. I know they had a bad year. It's like the Niners. They had a bad year last year. Can they bounce back? Absolutely. All those guys are still there, for the most part. I still think that they've got an offense that put up 70 points on the Broncos two years ago.

• 45:20Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the better case is they're playing beyond what you just said. Where are they? So they have. At Indy, week one.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Win.

• 45:33Bill Simmons?

  Home Pats, week two with the Gonzalez hamstring thing, which is now dominating my life as I just wait for updates.

• 45:39Speaker 04

  Patriots in September at the Dolphins.

• 45:41Bill Simmons?

  In September in Miami, not a great history. At Bills Thursday night, that just crossed out.

• 45:47Speaker 04

  Probably a loss, probably a loss.

• 45:48Bill Simmons?

  Jets Monday night at Panthers, week five. Home Chargers at Browns. So you're saying five and two.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  We could be six and one at that point. We, I don't give a shit, but we.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  No, it's a well, we, cause you're the only, this is your.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  This is it.

• 46:04Bill Simmons?

  This is really good. I'm, I'm, I completely disagree with you, but I'm also really jealous.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  And this is it. Like.

• 46:11Bill Simmons?

  It's so funny because we've known each other so long. I thought for sure. No, I thought for sure you were going to Tennessee. They check a lot of Schrager boxes and I was ready for a whole Cam Ward and this defense and the culture. And I, I just thought you might be in on that, but you zagged on me.

• 46:27Speaker 04

  I, I'm not in on them yet. I, I like the Dolphins as a pick, a good team that has a coach that has something to prove, that has his guys on the field and that I think has been really, really dismissed this offseason. And all the stuff about like, they don't get along and Tyreek was questioning, you know, the running backs room, like, don't, if you're not there and you're seeing stuff in press conferences, it's hard. And I, again, I think I might be the only person, including J.J. Justremsky and all the different Dolphins fans out there, actually feels that this team on paper still is as good as anybody on offense. And that coach put the league in a blender the last couple of years when he's got his weapons.

• 47:11Bill Simmons?

  Seven to one win the AFC East. McDaniel is a two to one to be on Get Up With You in mid-November.

• 47:18Speaker 04

  I know. I know.

• 47:20Bill Simmons?

  Let's take a one more break. I have a couple more things to throw you. This episode is brought to you by Carhartt. We spend a lot of time talking about football, the players, the coaches, the big plays, but there's a whole other team we rarely think about, the people who make the game possible, the workers building stadiums, paving parking lots, growing the grass, welding the goalposts, even making the footballs. They're committed to their craft and they're doing the work long before kickoff. Carhartt is proud to outfit those crews. So next time you're watching a game, take a second to appreciate the people behind it. Learn more at carhartt.com/jointhetrades.

• 47:53Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. You did this already on ESPN, but you know, I feel like you have to do it here. You gotta just do your whole Giants thing. I had to do an imitation of you doing the Giants thing.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  I heard it.

• 48:25Bill Simmons?

  Just do the two minutes because every Giants fan I know is over the moon with the potential. You know, they're not going to win the Super Bowl this year, but like just having an identity again, knowing that they're not going to have a shitty quarterback, knowing that they're going to have a pass rush. That's like the mid 2000s pass rush. Knowing that they're, you know, Michael Parsons now out of the division. They have a real chance to be the second best team. If Washington goes backwards, but there's just a lot of, a lot of buzz. Neighbors, you know, so give me, give me the spiel.

• 48:56Speaker 04

  The spiel is this. I went to a couple of practices and then I saw him with the joint practice with the Jets and Abdul Carter was absolutely unblockable. And then you add that to Dexter Lawrence, who is arguably the best defensive tackle in football, who next to him is Brian Burns. And then on the other side also is Kayvon Thibodeau. You have a front four that is as good as anyone in the league. And that includes the guys in Philly right now.

• 49:27Bill Simmons?

  I know. I think it's them in Philly, right? And I would even say if Carter is as good as we think he's going to be, they might even have the edge.

• 49:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. And Abdul Carter has been to a man unblockable. And it's funny, like you get that one clip against the Jets or whoever it was in the preseason game where he gets chipped. And people are like, see, he sucks. Like, no, no, no, no, no, you guys don't get it. Like, he's that good. They love their defense. They think their defense is as good as anybody. I look at the defense, the Jets could not move the ball in practice. And the Jets had just got done running the ball down the Packers throat in a preseason game. And the Jets could not do anything against this, this Giants defense. The question is, what do we get on offense? Well, the days I was there, neighbors didn't practice. The days I was there, Slaton or Hyatt wasn't out there. So I can't tell you what the offense

• 50:15Speaker 04

  looks like. I do know that every time they put Jackson Dart in, the kid comes in with a ton of swag. He walks in there like he owns the joint. The other quarterbacks, Jameis and Russ, don't seem threatened by him. In fact, they love him. They're like, let's promote this guy. Like, we're gonna do the best thing we can. There just seems to be positive vibes. And like, Daniel Jones, he was tough. He was reliable. He came to practice. Like, he was never, he never really embraced the whole, like, let me be a badass. Let me be a New York City leader. Now, not in Eli in a lot of ways, but then Eli just did it on the field. And that's where he gained the, everyone's like, love. This kid, Dart, comes in, you know, dressed in, in his kid shirt and his, and his necklace that's from his sister. And he's got these

• 50:59Speaker 04

  sunglasses on. He's just got something to him where, from the very get go, it's like, oh, this guy's coming in here with something, a little, a little swag to him that maybe we haven't had at the quarterback spot in some time. And then there's like the future. And I know that Dable and Shane, they've casted their lot with him, and they absolutely love the guy. And Brian Dable doesn't need to talk up any quarterback. He's had Josh Allen. He's had all these guys. He's been with Brady. Like, he loves his Jackson Dart. So, at the very least, last year, you look at this team, they're, they've got a great front seven. And then Newbin and Phillips, some of these other guys, they bring in a player that they really are high on, and Javon Holland at safety. Like, the defense is gonna be great. So you're gonna be in games. It's can this offense score enough? And if Neighbors is even close

• 51:43Speaker 04

  to what he was last year with some inferior quarterback play, then shit, they could put up some points, too.

• 51:48Bill Simmons?

  What about Giants cult hero, Cam Scatabo?

• 51:52Speaker 04

  I don't know if, and like, it's funny, because I see him going in fantasy leagues, like, really early. Like, they really like Tyrone Tracy, and they really like Motor Singletary. So I don't know where Cam Scatabo fits in now. It's funny.

• 52:03Bill Simmons?

  People just want it to happen.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  And it's, we went, I saw you at, at a party over Super Bowl week, a Saturday afternoon party. And we're there, and like, there's a lot of A-list NFL players and entertainers. And you and I were hanging, and there was only one player I wanted a selfie with, and it was Cam Scatabo. And he walked by. Like, he's got that to him. Like, he is very, very appealing as like, a fan favorite. I just don't know what role he has in the offense just yet.

• 52:29Bill Simmons?

  So Pittsburgh has the 21st pick in the draft in 2025, April.

• 52:35Bill Simmons?

  He took defensive tackle Derek Herman.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 52:39Bill Simmons?

  Dart goes four picks later, Giants trade up.

• 52:44Bill Simmons?

  That might've been a massive mistake because it really seems like Dart might be good.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:49Bill Simmons?

  And Pittsburgh hasn't had a quarterback since Ben Roethlisberger. And he was sitting there and they must've checked him out and everybody thought they might take Shador there because this was during the part of the draft before we realized Shador was going to drop multiple rounds. But man, I wonder if I'm a Steelers fan, I'm dreading this Dart thing. When do you, when do you think we, when do you think we see him? Yeah. Cause Sal and I did this on the schedule. Like it's, we were thinking like week four, week five range? Or do you think they're gonna let Russ steer the car for a while and kind of wait until December or something?

• 53:22Speaker 04

  I don't know if it's December, but they're not gonna yank Russ. Like I remember, just to give it a comparison, Bill O'Brien talking to him and he's like, "Look, Deshaun Watson will get in eventually, but Tom Savage is our guy." And then literally halftime of the first game, Deshaun Watson replaced Tom Savage. Like, this isn't that. This is, Russ is gonna get a couple of games. He might get a couple of months. I would think the bye week is always a weak circle. You know how brutal the start of the season is. Um, I think they have one game where they're going to be favored in that first nine weeks. It might be against the Saints. I would think at the bye week is when we start thinking Jackson Dart, unless Russ is winning and they're gonna keep him in.

• 54:02Bill Simmons?

  Give me 90 seconds on the Pats.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  Great. Right? Like the, the arrows, you know, pointed up. And as we see Belichick on Monday night, and it's like, geez, and now you've got Vrabel where it's like, okay, we have a piece of the good of Belichick, but it's like fresh and young. And Vrabel is so good at time management and so good at having his guys be disciplined and ready to play every week. It's the exact opposite of last year's team. There's an immediate upgrade with just Vrabel and McDaniels. And I'll throw Stretch in there who is Vrabel's like game and clock management guy, who is like the next Ernie Adams up there. McVeigh loved him in LA and he left LA to come be with Vrabel who he had in Tennessee.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  A very, very niche name.

• 54:51Bill Simmons?

  Stretch not shy about doing media.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  Right? He's been out, right?

• 54:56Bill Simmons?

  Boston Herald, like 4,000 word feature that I devoured by Andrew Callahan.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  Isn't it exciting?

• 55:01Bill Simmons?

  He popped on somebody's podcast. I'm like, look at Stretch.

• 55:04Speaker 04

  I know.

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  Not an enigma like Ernie Adams.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  I know. Ernie Adams was down there in the basement and was like fed like scraps of food. And meanwhile, Stretch is out there at the podium, but like, that's a real thing. That's a, that's an elite, elite clock management guy that has been long valued in the league. And then Vrabel, of course, I think is the best in the sport as far as knowing the rules, knowing all that stuff. And again, you're going to fall asleep listening to that. If you're like, oh, we've got a guy who knows all the rules in the playbook. Don't, hey, a lot of these NFL head coaches do not know all the rules in the playbook and do not know how to do time management. And you bang your head against the wall saying it, you're never going to see a unprepared Mike Vrabel team. You're never going to see Mike Vrabel, you know, botch a timeout or not know that, hey, wait, actually,

• 55:50Speaker 04

  this is a 10 yard loss and a stoppage of play, whatever it is. So,

• 55:55Speaker 04

  I don't have them in the playoffs this year. I don't, I think that they're better this year. I think Drake May is in much better hands with Josh McDaniels than he was in the previous.

• 56:03Bill Simmons?

  You probably gave them Cincinnati, you gave Cincinnati their spot.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  I love Cincinnati this year. Yeah.

• 56:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  And Miami, and I got Miami in there too.

• 56:11Bill Simmons?

  Okay. So I had, so the Pats Vegas spots you gave to Cincinnati and Miami.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 56:18Bill Simmons?

  I have the Pats in Vegas.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  And do we both have Denver and Casey?

• 56:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, of course we do. I didn't feel good about six and seven in the AFC. I changed my mind a million times.

• 56:27Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 56:27Bill Simmons?

  And but I think the Pats, the Gonzalez thing, if they don't win this week one game, I don't think they're going to make the playoffs. I know, not to sound like it's a must win game, but like, this is like, if you're going to get to 10 wins, this has to be one of the 10. And I, I just find it hard to believe they're going to go 10 and six. It's kind of. You have to beat Vegas at home if you're gonna make the playoffs, right? Washington would have beaten Vegas at home last year in week one.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:52Bill Simmons?

  So if it's gonna happen, and we'll kind of know right away, I feel like.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Well, I feel like I got egg on my face last year when, you know, Gerard Mayo's team goes into Cincinnati and beats them in a really hard fought week one game. And I'm like, Gerard Mayo had them running drills. They're in better shape than they were under Belichick. And then that all went off the rails, of course. I do feel without any second of hesitation, like Vrabel, McDaniels, and the rest of that coaching staff. And that go, I mean, it includes even like on the offensive side, you know, you've got all these different guys who have been with Vrabel before. And I think that they play a big role also. Like, this is a very experienced coaching staff.

• 57:33Bill Simmons?

  It's funny to read the quotes, and we have really good beat reporters for the Pats.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  You do.

• 57:38Bill Simmons?

  It's funny to how many players have not come out blatantly and said, wow, this coaching staff is so much better than last year. But it's just been a lot of between the line stuff that's been pretty fun. Like, it's like, wow, it's nice to have some stability this year, just like all these little.

• 57:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, and remember, Mayo was saying crazy stuff in the press conferences, too. And you're like, what? Like, we're in like doing appearances and saying things on the radio show that, again, not his fault, first year head coach.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  I know, but it's just unnecessary distractions.

• 58:09Speaker 04

  Yes, Vrabel, Vrabel comes in and Vrabel's, he's busting shots with the reporters. I think he went at Mike Girardi. I think he went at Tom Curran. Like, he's not gonna back down. He also knows these guys and he knows Karen, knows all them.

• 58:22Bill Simmons?

  Ben Volin hard.

• 58:24Speaker 04

  Oh, he did.

• 58:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 04

  And it's like, a part of you is like, oh, I hate the way he's talking to the media. Part of you is like, he's comfortable with these guys. He's not gonna be bullied around by them. And he also respects the fact that they're the best in the game when it comes to a media market.

• 58:36Bill Simmons?

  He's aggro. He's getting into scraps when the breaking up scraps of practice. He's yelling at media people. It's great. It's good to have an identity again.

• 58:46Speaker 04

  What was your reaction to Belichick on? Because I guess this is probably the first time you'll talk about it on on Monday night. Because that was.

• 58:53Bill Simmons?

  I was really bummed. I thought he was going to be awesome as this that like this last act college thing. And it was so bad. I almost don't even know how to process it.

• 59:04Speaker 04

  It was so bad.

• 59:05Bill Simmons?

  It was interesting how many people were delighted that it was bad. And some of that he brings on himself. Like he was a dick the last 12 years when he coached the Jordan Hudson things weird. Like I get it. But this guy is still the greatest NFL coach of all time. And it's kind of, it was the first time I was thinking to myself, oh, man, I hope they don't go like three and eight. And this is just like sad.

• 59:26Speaker 04

  I know.

• 59:27Bill Simmons?

  I don't want that to be the outcome.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  The was the word schadenfreude like I know I'm pronouncing it wrong. And I know you pronounce wrong words. Yeah, so we all do it. But like, it was so real. And my, my phone was lighting up. And, you know, it's not just for Bill. It's for Lombardi, our boy also. Like, people wanted to see these guys because they thought, you know, just let us get there and we'll, we'll be all right. And I think people want to see failure because of jealousy, but, but also because of the way that they came in and a lot of those players that were at North Carolina, like, we're good. They can walk. We'll bring in our own, like, we'll be okay. And obviously, it didn't go well the first day. Now, they play a Charlotte team next week that from what I've heard, you know, App State is not a powerhouse this year.

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  It's not a great App State team and App State, you know, waxed Charlotte last week. If, if they struggle against Charlotte in week two, then we've got a real problem and this thing can get real ugly.

• 1:00:21Bill Simmons?

  It did feel like a moment for about 40 minutes.

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  Oh, it was cool.

• 1:00:24Bill Simmons?

  They had MJ and LT in the, in the suite. They scored on the first drive. I was like, I'm in.

• 1:00:29Speaker 04

  I'm like, who's his quarterback? Lefty? And I'm like, ah, first 15 plays. It's amazing. And then she ends up on the sidelines at the end and you're like, what the hell is going on?

• 1:00:38Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat, or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what. You're going to want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're going to want WeatherTech. For American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather, visit weatherTech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Expedia. You know how at the end of the season, your team goes to Cancun? Sometimes earlier than expected? Sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully, your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1, 2, 3 Cancun.

• 1:01:22Bill Simmons?

  Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. So give us, before you go, give us the first, like, how many months at ESPN now?

• 1:01:36Speaker 04

  I got there in March.

• 1:01:38Bill Simmons?

  Popping on all the different shows, being like Swiss Army Knife. What was, what's been the biggest surprise the first three months of being in that whole world?

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  It's been cool because I thought it was going to be like, alright, you're signed on as NFL analyst, here is your role. And what I've realized very quickly is I have more freedom and more flexibility at ESPN than I ever did at NFL Network. Because they're like, oh, you know, Molly Karam's out, why don't you host First Take this week in July? Or Mike Greenberg's out, why don't you host Get Up? And then McAfee was out and they let me fly to Indianapolis and do that. And then like, when the Knicks were doing their thing, and I'm a Knicks fan, they're like, why don't you get on SportsCenter and talk Knicks? So all that stuff I never really thought about. And then the bigger surprise is like, you know, I was doing a three-hour show, five days a week, and I thought everyone was watching Good Morning Football. And I thought, okay, if I make a point on Good Morning Football, everyone in the media world's going to know what I said,

• 1:02:33Speaker 04

  because I'm Peter Schrager and I'm so important and the world revolves around me. What I really quickly learned was, when you get to ESPN, like, that's what's in the airports, that's what's in the barber shops, that's what's on in the bowling alley, and that's what's on in every hotel lobby. Like- The NFL Network stuff was was big fish, smaller pond. This is I'm a smaller fish in like a massive pond, but everyone's listening to what I say. And it feels like when I make a point on ESPN, like people hear it that I'm like, oh, shit. I got a text from XYZ because I said that at 9:00 AM on ESPN with First Take. And it's like, all right, yeah. So I think just the actual fire hose of the platform has been a pleasant surprise.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the face being on in the airports and all these different places. That's when you start. I don't think I noticed when I, when I was in that whole world was like, when you start getting recognized by the TSA guys.

• 1:03:24Speaker 04

  No doubt.

• 1:03:24Bill Simmons?

  And the cab drivers.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  That's it.

• 1:03:27Bill Simmons?

  And I was like, I'd, I'd been so, I was a writer. I'd been so anonymous for so many years. And then once all of a sudden I'm on these shows and you kind of forget. There's like, oh, that guy's was, and then people, yo, man, what's going on with the Lakers? What's it, you know, and you're just like, I'm just having coffee right now. It's eight o'clock in the morning.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  No doubt.

• 1:03:47Bill Simmons?

  And you're just kind of on call like a doctor for sports conversations.

• 1:03:50Speaker 04

  Totally. And I live in Brooklyn where, and I, you know, I, you don't know if people are into sports or if they're into like the new Strokes album, like you don't know if they're into it. So I'm doing NFL Network for years, living in Brooklyn. And like, maybe I got a head nod once in a while from a sports fan. And I'm like, all right, it's just Brooklyn. The people would much rather talk about craft beer and, you know, some indie band. No, since I've been at ESPN, everyone's like, oh, shit. Like I saw you on SportsCenter, I saw you on, on this or that. The one thing that's different is like at Good Morning Football, I came into work with Kyle. And it was like, it was our show. And it was like, well, what do we want to talk about? Let's, let's do it. I've got to navigate that a little bit. And the season's going to be interesting where tomorrow, for example, I'm on Get Up, First Take, and then I'm doing SportsCenter from the US Open.

• 1:04:34Speaker 04

  I'm going to be asked questions by Greenberg and by Molly, and I'm going to be talking with Stephen A, but like, it's not me coming in and saying, hey, should we talk about Travis Hunter? And like, it's, I don't have that anymore. So we've got to figure that out and navigate it where my voice is, you know, my thoughts aren't just being call and answer. It's more like, hey, what can I provide and offer up proactively?

• 1:04:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I miss you and Kyle. I'm gonna really feel it during the season just because it was, it was a habit.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  I love that dude. And like, listening to him and you, I get jealous and FOMO and I'm like, ah, they're good together. Like, I miss Kyle. Absolutely.

• 1:05:09Bill Simmons?

  But I've been monitoring ESPN stuff. You've stayed true to yourself. You're still you.

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  Trying.

• 1:05:14Bill Simmons?

  But I'm, I'm monitoring, and if I feel like you start veering in directions I don't like, I'm gonna be texting you.

• 1:05:20Speaker 04

  It's gonna be a test. Like, I'm on Mondays on First Take with Stephen A. Smith and Cam Newton and me. And it's like, alright dude, like, you wanna still make your, like, pithy joke about some reference to the 90s? Like, I don't know, it might not, it might not, it might not land like it did with Kyle Brand giggling, you know, like, so I gotta say.

• 1:05:38Bill Simmons?

  Your Adam Duritz joke might not work with that crew.

• 1:05:40Speaker 04

  It's a long December wink. Like, no, it might not work. It might. The third eye blind reference might go over some heads, even though Cam's hat is very high. We'll see. I, I've been, I've been thrilled with it, though. It's been cool.

• 1:05:55Bill Simmons?

  You'll be fine. It is, it has been fun seeing you just pop on all these different places. I don't even watch as much ESPN as other people, but I feel like when I, when I would tune in this summer, you were somewhere involved, somewhere on some show.

• 1:06:07Speaker 04

  Can I, can I say one thing? I've got a new passion, and you see me posting about it on Instagram. I play this, I know you're a racket sports lover and you love tennis.

• 1:06:14Bill Simmons?

  Are you gonna do paddle?

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  Yes, dude, paddle. This is so up your alley. I hear you doing these Michelob commercials, and you're like, crapping all over pickleball, and I'm nodding along, but then you're like, tennis is my sport. I play tennis. You have to get into paddle. You would love this sport, Bill. And if your listeners don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's two on two, it's doubles, but it's got the glass wall. I know how much you love tennis. This is easier on the body, and it's the most social thing in the world. Paddle's coming, and I want you in on, on, on the ride, dude.

• 1:06:41Bill Simmons?

  Paddle's coming? Where's it coming from?

• 1:06:43Speaker 04

  It's coming from South America. It's coming from Miami. It's coming, dude.

• 1:06:46Bill Simmons?

  For like, primetime?

• 1:06:47Speaker 04

  I don't know if it's ever gonna be on primetime, but it's a great sport, and I agree with you on pickleball. I couldn't get into pickleball, but as a tennis player and a tennis lover, like, this, this sport is so fun, and I wanna give you, like, a racket, and I wanna get you on the court, and I just wanna play with you, because I think you would love this sport.

• 1:07:04Bill Simmons?

  I would be an immediate natural, because it's a racket. I'm good at racket sports.

• 1:07:09Speaker 04

  I, I, this is my goal over the next year.

• 1:07:11Bill Simmons?

  Can pop right on. Did you go to the US Open?

• 1:07:14Speaker 04

  I'm going tomorrow, we're recording this on Tuesday. I'm going tomorrow and I'm excited. I, I love it. Do you, are you, any chance you'll be in town now, right?

• 1:07:22Bill Simmons?

  No, no, no, I, I don't go, but I, I did, I'll give you one take that I had that I've been thinking about.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  Is it about the honey juice or the chicken nugget with caviar?

• 1:07:30Bill Simmons?

  No, it's, I've been cultivating this take factory.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  Let me hear.

• 1:07:33Bill Simmons?

  You know, Serena, who's been back in the mix a little and, and she, she lost weight. She's in great shape and she's been.

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  She's on row.

• 1:07:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. She's pitching this row thing and she's the best she's felt.

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  I think she should come back.

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

  Let's go. I see Venus every night on these doubles with Fernandez and I'm like, I love those two.

• 1:07:54Bill Simmons?

  I feel like if she started planning it right now and aim for like French Open, Wimbledon, US Open, like, all right, seven months, her kids are a little bit older.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  How old is she?

• 1:08:05Bill Simmons?

  She's early 40s, but I was thinking like, I was trying to think like, what would be a bigger non NFL storyline? Then Serena coming back in shape, like almost like MJ coming back to the Wizards, but like, like more favorable and trying to like take her throne back. I, I, I think it would be like.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

  Boxing reference. I feel like it's a boxing reference more than anything.

• 1:08:29Bill Simmons?

  Everybody would be interested in this. I don't know. There's not a single person in my life who wouldn't be interested in a Serena comeback. And I just think she should consider it.

• 1:08:38Speaker 04

  I know you and your wife love the, the tennis and I, and me and my wife as well, we watch it and like Sabalenka is unbelievable and Iga is unbelievable. And you've got these two women right now playing at such a high level. You, you think Serena can still roll with those two?

• 1:08:56Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. That's what would be so fascinating because it would be a whole thing like she can't do this. There's no way. And then there would be this other side be like, she's Serena Williams. She's the GOAT. She's the best female athlete we've ever had. If anyone could do it, it's her. And it'd just be like incredible theater. I wonder if she's thought about it at all.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  I'm sure she has. She looks amazing. She's, what's she do now? She owns all these things. She's like a crazy, successful businesswoman.

• 1:09:19Bill Simmons?

  It just would be so interesting. If she, I was trying to think of like, anyone who could come back, that would be a more interesting subplot than her. Cause that, nobody else is realistic, right? Tiger's like, he's in his 50s now. He's had some, all these surgeries. Like he can't come back. There's no. You know LeBron's still playing, but if when LeBron retires, then it'd be like, oh, could LeBron come back? We'd have that whole thing for two years, but.

• 1:09:42Speaker 04

  For two years that we've done the Brady.

• 1:09:44Bill Simmons?

  I guess Brady would be the other one, but Brady's too old now. Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 04

  At this point, it would have happened last year, would have happened with the Niners a couple of years ago. Like he had his opportunities. He didn't. Serena coming back would be awesome. Now, on the, my hot take on the tennis is like, we always had Nadal and Federer as the top guys. And then Djokovic obviously joined them, but there was always this like Stan Wawrinka, David Ferrer, like there was always these other guys. Right now it's just, it's just Sinner and Alcaraz. And I don't, and like the gap is so big between those two and everyone else. Like, I don't know if this US Open has been as exciting because they win 6-1, 6-1, 6-1. And then it's like, all right, they'll play in the finals, but we have two weeks of tennis. And I gotta be honest, I'm going tomorrow, I'm seeing the Canadian guy play the Australian guy. I don't even know their

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  names and I follow this thing on a daily basis. So it's really just a two man sport right now. And I don't think that's great either.

• 1:10:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, the, the Ben Shelton getting hurt was a murder.

• 1:10:41Speaker 04

  Killer.

• 1:10:42Bill Simmons?

  Cause that was, I think they were counting on him to really potentially be heard from, especially because the crowd would have gotten completely behind him.

• 1:10:49Speaker 04

  Tiafoe loses in straight sets. Like.

• 1:10:52Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't great. And then Coco is like.

• 1:10:54Speaker 04

  Coco.

• 1:10:55Bill Simmons?

  Just got waxed by Osaka.

• 1:10:57Speaker 04

  Worked her.

• 1:10:58Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, it's, it's a, I don't know. The Serena thing would be pretty fun. I like the US Open.

• 1:11:03Speaker 04

  Hey, should we do a tennis pod together?

• 1:11:05Bill Simmons?

  No, I don't think anyone would listen to it. The, the one at the Ringer who loves tennis is DeBundo.

• 1:11:12Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:11:13Bill Simmons?

  DeBundo's like, like I'll just, like I texted him today on Tuesday about like, what, what's a tennis bet that you would, you would go for it? And he's like, I like both underdogs and the women's, like he's like really into it.

• 1:11:27Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know how hot the tennis pod would be.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  It's.

• 1:11:31Bill Simmons?

  Maybe, maybe paddle that. Maybe that's, maybe that's the pod. But when paddle becomes a major thing.

• 1:11:36Speaker 04

  You would love this. And like the games you get in with these like random guys that are, you know, I work in oil. I work, it's just, it's a crazy scene, this paddle scene, and it's big in New York right now. And I think it's coming to LA.

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  So are you like, you're officially like a McAfee guy and I'm like the old girlfriend or like, how, how does this work? Just walk me through it.

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  I don't know. I'd like to be able to swing a little bit and, and have you both.

• 1:12:02Bill Simmons?

  An open relationship.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  I want to be able to just, just be open and like.

• 1:12:07Bill Simmons?

  That's great.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  Just fun, you know?

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  And we'll try to get along for you and it'll be good. We just want you to feel good.

• 1:12:12Speaker 04

  If I could bridge you guys, cause like you mentioned mullet number two, like that's Boston Connor. He's a good guy. He's a Patriots fan. Like he would love mullet number two.

• 1:12:20Bill Simmons?

  I like the Boston guy. Yeah. Give, give my best to the Boston guy. I like that he sticks up for us.

• 1:12:25Speaker 04

  What you would appreciate about them, and it's got a good ringer Grantland feel like it is like them against, I think they live in Indianapolis. It's five friends. They don't have a rundown. I go down there and it's like, let's just talk football and I so appreciate it. It's like the part that you and McAfee have, like the shaded thing is like the complete distrust and disrespect for middle management and, and like that kind of stuff of like the khaki pants and the suit and the lanyard and all that.

• 1:12:52Bill Simmons?

  To me.

• 1:12:52Speaker 04

  Like Pat doesn't, doesn't suffer fools and he will tell, and they, you know, that, that's just what it is. He licenses a show. It's his deal. But like, I know you guys both speak a very similar tongue when it comes to, hey, we're the talent. We know what works and just trust us and don't try to interfere too much. That's the game he plays and I kind of respect you both for that.

• 1:13:11Bill Simmons?

  I always, I always respected Woody Bill. I know, I just didn't like the Kimmel Aaron Rodgers thing, but I'm over it.

• 1:13:16Speaker 04

  Fair enough.

• 1:13:17Bill Simmons?

  It is. It was like, what, two years ago? It's fine.

• 1:13:20Speaker 04

  It's done.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. Now, now you're there sometimes.

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  Sometimes.

• 1:13:25Bill Simmons?

  And now, now we are, you know, what's that guy's name? Boston Connor?

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  Boston Connor. I would love for you to have him and Ty Schmidt on. Ty's great also.

• 1:13:32Bill Simmons?

  Ty Schmidt on. These are your guys.

• 1:13:34Speaker 04

  They're good. They're good, bro.

• 1:13:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm like the old girlfriend.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  You've got, you've got Diana and Pablo and the rest. Pablo, Pablo Torre comes on talking about his quote unquote origin story. I'm texting Bill. I'm like, can I come on and talk about the Seahawks? What are we doing here?

• 1:13:47Bill Simmons?

  Make me have some Mike McDonald thoughts.

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  I want to talk. I've got some thoughts on Johnny Smith. Can we talk?

• 1:13:53Bill Simmons?

  All right. Well, so you'll be popping on a few times during this season.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  As many times as you'll have me.

• 1:13:59Bill Simmons?

  I would love to have you. I'm, I'm excited for everything that's happening for you. It's great to see you as always.

• 1:14:04Speaker 04

  Dude, you're the best. You've always been such a champion of mine and you know, my love for you and the, the listeners that you guys have.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  All right. Good to see you. Thanks, man.

• 1:14:11Speaker 04

  Thanks, dude.

• 1:14:13Bill Simmons?

  All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. Uh, I'm going to be back on Thursday doing Ringer 107 with House and a whole bunch of other stuff. So stay tuned for that as we get ready. We might even go after the Philly Dallas game. Um, but at some point Thursday you'll have a podcast from me. So stay tuned for that. I will see you then.

• 1:14:48Bill Simmons?

  Let's be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and a Philly issue with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.

• 1:16:09Bill Simmons?

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