Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class The Life and Afterlife of Casimir Pulaski About this episode Pulaski is often built up into an almost mythic figure who represents patriotism, bravery, freedom, independence, and the U. S. as a melting pot. a nation of immigrants. But there’s also a very different version of his story.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:44 Holly Frey? Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.
2:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And I'm Holly Frey. Today's episode is on Kameerz Pulaski, who English language sources pretty much overwhelmingly refer to by the anglicized name Casimir. His last name's also pronounced slightly differently in his native language of Polish. And I would say probably people who actually speak Polish do a better job on his first name than I just did. His name came up in our recent episode on Viola Roseborough, who was born in a town named after him. But he has been on my shortlist all the way since 2019, when he made an appearance on an installment of Unearthed.
3:38 Tracy V. Wilson? Aside from that recent name drop, this also seemed like a pretty good time to talk about him since this year is being observed as the 250th birthday of the United States and Pulaski was killed in action during the Revolutionary War. There's also another layer that I think makes him a good topic to talk about in the midst of all these 250th anniversary commemorations. And that is how his story has been told. Because he has often been built up into an almost mythic figure and a representation of ideals like patriotism and bravery and freedom and independence. And with all that interconnected with the story that the United States sort of tells itself
4:23 Tracy V. Wilson? about being a melting pot or a nation of immigrants. There's also writing about him, though, that is not through those lenses and tells a very different story from that one.
4:35 Holly Frey? Casimir Pulaski was born on March 6, 1745, in Poland, which at the time was united with Lithuania as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. That same day, he was baptized at home without a liturgical ceremony. His baptismal records, which are written in Latin, describe him with words meaning "debility" or "weakness." It's possible that because of whatever this was, his parents feared for his life and didn't want to risk him dying unbaptized. A baptism with a liturgical ceremony was held for both Casimir and his older brother Franck Chisak on March 14 at the Holy Cross Church in Vorza.
5:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Casimir's parents were Josef and Mariana Pulaski. Josef was a lawyer and an arbiter and the district governor of Varka. The Pulaskis were from a very old and prominent family. They were part of the Zlasha, or the Gentry. And they also had a long history of military service, including men serving as knights before European fighting forces started transitioning away from knights and toward standing professional armies.
5:46 Holly Frey? We don't know a whole lot about Casimir's early life. He was the middle of three sons, and there were also several daughters in the family. Casimir probably got a basic elementary education before becoming a page in the court of Charles, Prince of Cortland and Semigalia, son of King Augustus III of Poland and a lector of Saxony. Casimir became a page in 1762, so he would have been about 17. And he got his first military experience while in service to the prince.
6:18 Tracy V. Wilson? In the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, kings were elected. And in 1764, Stanislaus II Augustus Poniatowski was elected king. He had become one of the lovers of Russian Empress Catherine II, also known as Catherine the Great, and he was elected king with Russia's backing. This should not be viewed as an equal partnership between Catherine and the king, though. Catherine saw Stanislaus as a pawn, and both she and King Frederick II of Prussia wanted to use him to pursue their own interests.
6:55 Holly Frey? That is obviously a massive and complicated chunk of history that would be at least a whole other episode to get into thoroughly. So the very basic version is that the Commonwealth had been in decline for a while, and Russia had been taking advantage of that to exert more and more influence in Poland. That included Catherine pressuring Stanislaus to give full political equality to the Commonwealth's non-Catholics. They made up about 10% of the Commonwealth's population. Non-Catholics were framed as dissidents, and they had effectively no political rights and few religious freedoms. In the face of both political pressure from
7:36 Holly Frey? Russia and outbreaks of violence, the Commonwealth's legislature, called the SAME, repealed these restrictions. The SAME also abandoned reform projects that Stanislaus proposed and Russia objected to.
7:51 Tracy V. Wilson? In February of 1768, a Catholic confederation was established in Bar, Ukraine, to fight back against these religious reforms and the ongoing escalation of Russian influence in Poland and King Stanislaus. One of the confederation's founders was Casimir Pulaski's father. Casimir was 23, and some accounts characterize him and his brothers as being conscripted to fight for the Confederation of Bar. Others characterize him as an eager participant, just determined to fight for a free Poland.
8:29 Tracy V. Wilson? Really, none of the sources that I used for this episode really spent much time on the fact that this idea of freedom was also connected to trying to keep non-Catholics from having political and religious rights.
8:43 Holly Frey? Whatever the exact circumstances behind Casimir Pulaski's involvement in this uprising, within a couple of months, he was leading skirmishes against the king's forces and Russian troops. He became a colonel and developed a reputation for being a skilled horseman and good with a sword. He also earned particular praise for defending a monastery while outnumbered and besieged.
9:07 Tracy V. Wilson? The Confederation of Bar initially had some support from France in terms of both money and volunteer fighters. They also sought the support of the Ottoman Empire, which declared war on Russia in October of 1768, after Russian troops pursued a Polish force across the Ottoman border. In 1770, the Council of the Bar Confederation proclaimed that the king had been dethroned, which he really hadn't been. And then the following year, they managed to kidnap the king and hold him prisoner outside of Warsaw. Either the king managed to escape, or his abductors started to kind of second guess what they had done, and they let him go. Either way, he got away.
9:51 Holly Frey? Casimir Pulaski was implicated in the kidnapping, and he was also charged with attempted regicide. The kidnapping was real, but the purported assassination plot doesn't seem to have been. The Confederation of Bar's international support was already pretty weak, and it really fell apart as other nations didn't want to back an uprising that had allegedly tried to kill the king. Pulaski had to flee, first to Prussia, then to the Ottoman Empire, and then to France. He got further and further in debt as he tried and failed to raise money and rally support for Poland.
10:29 Tracy V. Wilson? The Bar uprising was finally suppressed in 1772. By then, Pulaski had become known for his ability to recruit and organize troops and for his bravery. But he was also described as reckless and insubordinate, and that put him at odds with a lot of the Confederation's other leaders. The uprising also came at a great cost for the Pulaski family. Pulaski's father was dead. By the end of this, he was either killed in action or after being captured in 1769. One of Casimir's brothers had also been killed, and the other brother had been captured and transported to the Russian interior.
11:09 Holly Frey? In the summer of 1773, Pulaski was tried for attempted regicide in absentia. He was convicted and sentenced to beheading. When he tried to join the French Army, he was turned away, apparently because of this conviction. He wound up in debtor's prison until some friends were able to free him.
11:30 Tracy V. Wilson? The Confederation of Bar had a huge and devastating impact on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Neighboring nations were concerned about both the uprising and Russia's growing power in the region, not just in Poland, but also because of its military successes in its war with the Ottoman Empire. In 1772, in part to try to preserve the balance of power in Eastern Europe, Russia, Prussia, and Austria signed a treaty that divided about a third of Poland and most of Lithuania among them. More partitions followed in 1793 and 1795.
12:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Poland and Lithuania both ceased to exist as independent nations until after World War I.
12:18 Holly Frey? We will get back to Casimir Pulaski after we pause for a sponsor break.
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17:14 Tracy V. Wilson? While Casimir Pulaski was in France, he met Benjamin Franklin and Silas Deen, who were both trying to get French support for the American Revolution. Those two men were also meeting with European generals and other military men who wanted to join the revolution or to act as advisors to General George Washington and the Continental Army. People had a range of reasons for wanting to join the American side, including a thirst for fame and glory, the chance to attain a higher military rank than they could in their nation of origin, loyalty to their nation of origin, which was either an enemy of Britain or would just be happy to see Britain lose its colonies, or an admiration
17:58 Tracy V. Wilson? for the ideals of the revolutionaries like freedom and independence.
18:03 Holly Frey? Pulaski is usually characterized as falling into that last group, and that's how he described himself in letters to George Washington and to the Continental Congress. But he also had some practical concerns at work. His only real experience was as a soldier and a military leader. He was out of money, and European militaries didn't trust him because he had abducted a king and had been convicted of regicide.
18:30 Tracy V. Wilson? He also faced some obstacles when it came to joining the Continental Army. He would need the approval of the Continental Congress, which had become kind of wary of this influx of European military men who were all trying to join up. Some of them, who had already gone to North America, had developed a reputation for being arrogant and hard to work with. A lot of them spoke multiple languages, but they did not speak English, and English was what most of the soldiers spoke. That was true of Pulaski as well, and at first, he was mostly communicating with American leaders in French. The Continental Congress was particularly suspicious of foreign papists, or Catholics, and that was Pulaski.
19:14 Holly Frey? But Franklin had apparently already heard about Pulaski's valor in Poland before meeting him. It also seems like the French officials that Franklin was negotiating with were backing Pulaski's efforts to join the Continental Army. They probably really liked the idea of Pulaski being somewhere else, and he ultimately made his way to North America with French financial support. There's also some speculation that Pulaski had become a Freemason, and that would have opened some doors with the Freemasons, among the revolution's leaders, including Benjamin Franklin and George Washington. That's a little unclear, though. As we said, Pulaski was Catholic, and the Catholic Church had
19:56 Holly Frey? started prohibiting Catholics from joining Freemasons under Pope Clement XII in 1738.
20:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter of introduction for Pulaski on May 29, 1777, describing him as, quote, "an officer famous throughout all of Europe for his bravery and conduct in defense of the liberties of his country." Pulaski also carried a letter to Gilbert de Moutier-Marquita Lafayette from his wife Adrien. This letter both served as another letter of introduction, and it won Lafayette's gratitude. I think that might have been the first letter he had received from his wife since going to North America, and then that sets the stage for the two men to become friends.
20:42 Holly Frey? Pulaski also wrote letters of his own. He wrote one in French to George Washington in August of 1777 while on his way to North America. It translated in part as, quote, "I have the honor to enclose to your excellency the letters which show the hardships that I have undergone on account of having taken up arms in defense of my country. That country no longer exists for me, and here, by fighting for freedom, I wish to deserve it. Life or death for the welfare of the state is my motto, and thereby I hope to earn the esteem of the citizens of this country."
21:20 Tracy V. Wilson? Pulaski departed from France on June 13, 1777, and he arrived in Marblehead, Massachusetts on July 23rd. After arriving in Massachusetts, he went to Boston, where he met with Major General William Heath. He also obtained a letter of introduction from Lafayette to James Lovell, Massachusetts delegate to the Continental Congress. Lafayette's letter said that he did not know Pulaski, but quote, "I received a particular account about him. I think proper to acquaint you with it. He was one of the first members of the Confederation of Poland, the most distinguished officer and the most dangerous enemy of the tyrants of his country. He derived a great reputation by his bravery
22:03 Tracy V. Wilson? and intelligence in the war and his noble and fiery conduct after the destruction of the unhappy Poland."
22:12 Holly Frey? At first, the Continental Congress did not approve Pulaski to become an officer. So, he went to find George Washington anyway, arriving at his encampment north of Philadelphia and volunteering to be his aide. He was still acting in this volunteer role at the Battle of Brandywine on September 11, 1777.
22:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Washington's force thought it had blocked all of the crossings of the Brandywine River. It turned out, they were wrong, and a British force under the command of Sir William Howe was able to cross the river while hidden by fog and approach Washington's flank. Washington's line collapsed after this unexpected attack, and Washington realized he had to retreat.
22:55 Holly Frey? General Nathaniel Green commanded a reserve force that acted as a rear guard, and Pulaski volunteered to lead Washington's mounted guard in a cavalry charge against the British infantry. This charge is often credited with saving Washington's life and keeping the Continental Army's defeat at Brandywine from turning into a rout.
23:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Pulaski's actions and their outcome made an impression on the Continental Congress, and four days later, on September 15th, they named Pulaski Brigadier General and Commander of Horse. But the Continental Army didn't really have a cavalry for Pulaski to command as commander of horse. Horses were mainly being used for reconnaissance and to carry messages or as ceremonial guards for high ranking officers like Washington's guard that Pulaski had led at Brandywine. So in addition to recruiting and training soldiers, Pulaski also needed to purchase horses and all of their necessary food, supplies, and equipment.
23:59 Tracy V. Wilson? In addition to managing all of this, Pulaski wrote a series of letters to Washington and letters to other officers about how he thought an army should use and structure a cavalry. That, of course, was based on all of his experience and training in Europe, and sometimes these letters really made it sound like he thought people were stupid for having not already realized this.
24:21 Holly Frey? Pulaski's time as commander of horse did not go smoothly. Since he didn't speak English well, he had to work through translators, and he butted heads with people over just fundamentally different ideas of what horses should be used for in war. Pulaski was so deeply annoyed that the Continental Army decided to remain quartered over the winter rather than embarking on a wintertime campaign against the British. In early 1778, he resigned from that post.
24:52 Tracy V. Wilson? He was like, I don't know what's wrong with you while we fight in the winter all the time in Europe. Just go lie around for a few months.
24:59 Holly Frey? What is happening?
25:00 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. On March 28th of that same year, though, the Continental Congress resolved that Pulaski could retain his rank of brigadier general, and they tasked him with raising and commanding, quote, "an independent corps to consist of 68 horse and 200 foot, the horse to be armed with lances and the foot equipped in the manner of light infantry. The corps to be raised in such a way and composed of such men as General Washington shall think expedient and proper, and if it shall be thought by General Washington that it will not be injurious to the service that he have liberty to dispense in this particular instance with the resolve of Congress against enlisting deserters."
25:45 Holly Frey? Some sources characterize this as the Continental Congress's recognition of Pulaski's dedication, bravery, knowledge, and skill. But others suggest that putting Pulaski in charge of an independent corps was more about just getting him out of the way and stopping all of the disputes he kept having about what a cavalry was for.
26:06 Tracy V. Wilson? This corps, which became known as the Pulaski Legion, was largely made up of men from Poland, France, Germany, and Ireland, as well as some who had been born in North America. It was probably the most internationally diverse unit connected to the Continental Army, and it had a lot fewer communication issues than when Pulaski was commanding mostly English speakers. In April of that year, he was issued $10,000 for the purpose of buying horses and recruiting troops and other funding followed. Although there were a lot of disputes about money and accusations that he was mismanaging that money, Pulaski also claimed that he was not getting the funding he needed and that
26:50 Tracy V. Wilson? he was having to put in a lot of money from his family to make up for that.
26:55 Holly Frey? The Pulaski Legion had a small flag or standard, which, according to the lore, was made by the Moravian Single Sisters of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. This was commemorated in a poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow titled "Hymn of the Moravian Nuns of Bethlehem." This standard is in the collection of the Maryland Center for History and Culture, and it's currently on loan to the Museum of the American Revolution. But the connection to the Moravian Single Sisters is a little bit fuzzier. Pulaski is known to have visited them once, but there is no documentation of their having made that banner.
27:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, this is, as I understand it, it's something that probably would have been mentioned in their records and diaries, and it just wasn't, although the visit was. Pulaski trained his legion as lancers and dragoons in the style of the Polish military that started in May of 1778. But as a fighting unit, they had mixed success. In August of 1778, they were sent to defend a privateering base at Little Egg Harbor, New Jersey. They faced heavy losses there after a Hessian who had defected from the British Army and come to join their ranks. He deserted and then led about 250 British soldiers back to Pulaski's unit in a surprise attack.
28:17 Tracy V. Wilson? At least 50 of Pulaski's men were bayoneted as they slept.
28:22 Holly Frey? In the spring of 1779, Pulaski's legion was sent south to help defend the city of Charleston, South Carolina. On May 11th, Pulaski made one of the decisions that earned him a reputation for recklessness. He apparently planned to charge a British raiding party and then fall back to lure them into an ambush. But he did so before that ambush was actually in place, which of course, again, led to heavy losses.
28:50 Tracy V. Wilson? Giving Pulaski his own independent corps also had not resolved all of the conflicts. On August 19th, 1779, while in Charleston, Pulaski sent a lengthy letter to the Continental Congress that began, quote, "Gentlemen, every information from the northward that has reached me since my departure from thence strengthens my opinion, indeed convinces me that there is some malignant spirit constantly casting such an impenetrable mist before your eyes as to render it impossible for you to see and judge of my conduct with propriety, and as becomes the character of gentlemen in your exalted stations."
29:35 Holly Frey? He described himself as continually ill-treated. Quote, "Since the fatal incident that I undertook to raise my corps, which I clothed, recruited, and exercised in the space of three months' time, I have been and still am persecuted. I cannot express my indignation when I recollect the infamous chicane by which I was compelled to appear before a court like a criminal." That little last line was related to accusations about misuse of funds and possibly also his requisitioning supplies from local loyalists.
30:12 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, that was another thing where he was like, we do this in Europe. I don't know why you all can't get your acts together. It's fine.
30:20 Tracy V. Wilson? One passage from this letter gets quoted a lot in depictions of Pulaski as a passionate defender of liberty and sort of a personification of the ideals of the American Revolution. Quote, "I could not submit to stoop before the sovereigns of Europe, so I came to hazard all for the freedom of America and desirous of passing the rest of my life in a country truly free and before settling as a citizen to fight for liberty." So those depictions of him that are sort of the exemplar of revolutionary ideals don't
31:00 Tracy V. Wilson? usually include the rest of this sentence, which is, quote, "But perceiving that endeavors are used to disgust me against such a motive and regard it was phantom. I am inclined to believe that enthusiasm for liberty is not the predominant virtue in America at this time."
31:19 Holly Frey? We will talk about the end of Pulaski's life after we pause for a sponsor break.
31:27 Speaker 07 Okay, Chicken Nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself.
32:10 Speaker 07 This new chicken nugget, reinvented, based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.
32:23 Tracy V. Wilson? For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed
33:05 Tracy V. Wilson? to help solve hiring challenges and find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
33:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S. S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. Never has it been told better
33:47 Holly Frey? than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book, writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.
34:04 Tracy V. Wilson? We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
34:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Help vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
35:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Vive Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends
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36:12 Tracy V. Wilson? In the fall of 1779, the Pulaski Legion was sent to Georgia to try to break the Siege of Savannah. A French fleet was already there, ready under the command of Charles Henry Actore, Count d'Estaing, while American troops were under the command of General Benjamin Lincoln.
36:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Those two forces needed to work together to break that siege, and Pulaski was going to coordinate between them.
36:39 Holly Frey? Some sources portray Casimir Pulaski as being shot while leading a dramatic cavalry charge against a British line at Savannah on October 9, 1779. There are also several artistic depictions of this moment in which Pulaski is leading a charge. But other accounts say he wasn't charging anyone. He was scouting ahead with his aide de camp, Colonel Paul Badaloo. While they were scouting, Pulaski heard that Count de Stong had been wounded and rushed to help, which is when he was shot.
37:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, people also point out that in spite of the fact that it looks really good in the movies, a trained cavalry unit would probably not be charging against armed infantry who could just stab them in their horses. That it's just not a realistic way of how cavalry was being used at that time.
37:32 Holly Frey? Well, not if you're not Casimir Pulaski, you ding-dongs. Come on, do it my way.
37:38 Tracy V. Wilson? So, written accounts of what happened are more in line with this second version, that he was scouting ahead. One of those was from Captain John Freeman, who wrote that they were near a poplar tree when Pulaski, quote, "stood up in the saddle, grasped the pommel with both hands, and with a momentary expression of disbelief, slid into the arms of Ambrose and the staff officers, who gently laid the unconscious form on the ground." So, Ambrose in this passage was Freeman's enslaved servant.
38:10 Holly Frey? Surgeon James Linnah of Ireland removed Pulaski from the battlefield with the help of his son Edward and his enslaved servant, Ghee. Some of the more lionizing accounts of Pulaski's life make it sound like the British knew who he was and held him in such high esteem that they allowed him to be removed, rather than bayoneting him immediately. Linnah extracted the ball. It is described as being in Pulaski's hip, groin, or thigh, and he dressed the wound. There is a ball mounted on a silver candlestick that was passed down through the Linnah family in the collection of the Georgia Historical Society, purportedly the grape shot that struck Casimir Pulaski.
38:54 Tracy V. Wilson? According to accounts from just after this happened, as well as at least one news report, Bentaloo had also been wounded and he and Pulaski were taken aboard a brig called the Wasp, where Pulaski continued to be treated by Lena and by a French doctor from de Stang's fleet. But onboard the ship, on October 11th, 1779, Pulaski died at the age of 34. He had developed gangrene and because of the very foul smell, in Bentaloo's words, they were, quote, "compelled, though reluctantly, to consign to a watery grave all that was now left upon earth of his beloved and honored commander."
39:34 Holly Frey? A week later, Lincoln and de Stang were forced to retreat and the Siege of Savannah ended with a British victory. Bentaloo wrote to the Continental Congress to inform them of Pulaski's death on October 25th. A month after that, the Congress resolved to erect a monument in Pulaski's memory. On February 23rd, 1780, what remained of Pulaski's legion was incorporated with the Corps of Colonel Armand Marquis de la Rue Arrie, and of course, three years later, the Revolutionary War formally ended with the Treaty of Paris, under which King George III recognized the United States as an independent nation.
40:15 Tracy V. Wilson? Although Pulaski had been regarded as arrogant and reckless and had an obviously fraught relationship with his superiors and his subordinates, it did not take long for him to be regarded as an absolute hero. In that regard, to be clear, that grew from things he had actually really done. Pulaski's work with the Pulaski Legion and his advocacy for the creation of an actual cavalry within the Continental Army, and then the regulations that he created for that cavalry are why he is sometimes called the "Father of the American Cavalry." He also willingly fought and died for the freedom of a nation that he had literally no connections to. In the words of Clarence A. Manning, a professor
40:59 Tracy V. Wilson? of Slavic languages and literature who died in 1972, quote, "All those men who had grumbled at his cavalier methods of handling accounts, or had been annoyed by his vehement outbursts as to the needs of his troops, now realized that he had been actuated only by impetuous patriotism and enthusiasm."
41:23 Holly Frey? The city of Charleston held a public funeral in Pulaski's honor. And after the war was over, the city of Savannah started trying to raise money for a monument to him and to General Nathaniel Green. At first, they couldn't get enough funds, but that started to change ahead of the Marquis de Lafayette's tour of the United States, which started in 1824. Lafayette laid cornerstones honoring Pulaski and Green on March 21, 1825, during his visit to Savannah. It took a while for these monuments to be completed, though. Pulaski's monument, which is an obelisk with Pulaski on horseback, shown in relief at the base, was finished in 1855.
42:05 Tracy V. Wilson? A completely different account of Pulaski's death and burial emerged in 1851 as this monument was being built. Stories started to circulate that Pulaski was not buried at sea, but under a tree on the bank of a creek in Georgia. In December of 1853, William Parker Bowen said that he had found this burial site at Greenwich Plantation in Chatham County, which had previously been owned by his family. Pulaski had reportedly been taken there, either instead of being taken aboard the Wasp or after being removed from the Wasp. Bowen said that his grandmother and aunt had personally witnessed Pulaski's burial
42:49 Tracy V. Wilson? and that that story had been passed down through the family. He excavated a site on the property and he removed what appeared to be a complete skeleton, which was sealed in a metal box and placed behind the monument's cornerstone.
43:03 Holly Frey? Other documents were put forth to support the Greenwich Plantation as Pulaski's true burial place. One is a letter written by the captain of the Wasp, Samuel Bullfinch. This letter dated October 15, 1779, says that Bullfinch, quote, "took on board the Americans that was sent down, one of which died this day, and I have brought him ashore and buried him." Bullfinch doesn't name this American, though, so it could have been Pulaski, meaning that earlier accounts got the date of his death wrong, or it could have been some other unnamed soldier who died on October 15.
43:42 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, possibly a different person. Another source that was put forth to substantiate this is the pension application of Martha Milliner Phillips, widow of Eliezer Phillips, a cabinetmaker who had served aboard the Wasp. Multiple documents in this pension file reference Pulaski, although they all say slightly different things. One letter says Pulaski died aboard the Wasp while it was anchored in a river not far from Savannah and that he was taken ashore and buried. Supporters of the Greenwich Plantation burial site referenced this letter while ignoring another letter that says that Eliezer Phillips built the coffin
44:26 Tracy V. Wilson? when it was believed that it would be needed for Pulaski's burial, which was going to take place in Charlestown. But that was before the weather kept them from being able to actually get there and the decision was made to bury him at sea. The Greenwich supporters also ignore the record of Martha Milliner Phillips, herself, her own testimony about her husband's time aboard the Wasp, which was sworn before a judge. Quote, "Dependent saith that the gallant Pulaski, being wounded at Savannah in October 1779, he was put on board said brig where he died and was buried in the ocean between north and south at Estou."
45:08 Holly Frey? Debate about Pulaski's burial at sea or at Greenwich Plantation has been going on since the middle of the 19th century with numerous very passionate arguments in speeches, articles, and eventually websites. Then in 1996, the Pulaski monument in Savannah was badly in need of repair and the restoration it required offered an opportunity for DNA testing on the remains. So that had the potential to answer these questions.
45:38 Tracy V. Wilson? When the Pulaski Identification Committee issued its final report 10 years later, the questions weren't answered.
45:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Researchers had not actually been able to extract any identifiable DNA from the bones, but the committee stated in the report that, quote, "strong circumstantial evidence does suggest that the remains are Casimir Pulaski's."
46:02 Holly Frey? Additional DNA research was conducted in 2004, this time comparing mitochondrial DNA from one of Pulaski's teeth with mitochondrial DNA from a living female relative of Pulaski's named Anna Przynska. According to this test, Przynska was not related to whoever's bones had been enclosed in the monument. Tests on samples from two other potential female Pulaski relatives also reached the same conclusion.
46:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Researchers had already noted that the bones in the monument seemed to have come from someone who had a small stature and spent a lot of time on horseback and died at an early age. Those are all things that were true of Casimir Pulaski. And then another observation came from this additional study of the bones, and that was that they had a number of traits that are more common in females than in males, including the shape of the pelvis. This led to speculation that Pulaski may have been female or intersex, possibly due to a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia. No tests have actually been done to try to confirm whether that's the case, though.
47:14 Holly Frey? Then, in 2019, there was another round of research on the bones and the DNA within them. This is what came up on a previous installment of Unearth, and it became part of an episode of America's Hidden Stories on Smithsonian Channel titled "The General Was Female?" This episode walks through the basics of Pulaski's life, including the reference to an infirmity on his baptismal records, implying that may have been a reference to his external genitals being ambiguous. It also discusses the contradictory accounts of his burial and various details about the bones that were buried in the monument and what they might say about that person's life.
47:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Yes, let's continue to build the idea that that these are Pulaski's bones and there are indications that he might have been intersex. At the end of the Smithsonian Channel episode, a researcher announces that additional mitochondrial DNA research has confirmed a match between a new sample taken from a talus bone from the remains from the Pulaski monument and a metatarsal bone from Pulaski's maternal great-grandniece Theresa Witowska. That is the opposite of what I thought they were going to say, based on what I had concluded from all of the research I had done by the time I watched this Smithsonian Channel
48:38 Tracy V. Wilson? episode, something that happened on the very last day of research on this episode.
48:43 Holly Frey? So that announcement seems definitive, but Polish-American historian James S. Pula published a paper in the Polish Review in 2022 in which he noted that there's no clear chain of custody for these new samples, which had been sent through the mail. It's not clear how the samples were handled or whether they could have been contaminated. It also seems that the researchers who carried out these tests did not have a clear answer for why three previous tests all failed to find a match, but that this one had a match. Pula asked if tests were done to see if the new sample matched the previous sample taken from the Savannah monument bones, and their answer was, quote, "The second set of samples
49:27 Holly Frey? had some similarities with the first." Pula noted, "That's not the same thing as saying that they matched." Pula has published other work on Pulaski, including other work that was skeptical of the claims that these are his bones.
49:42 Tracy V. Wilson? So if those bones from the monument really are Pulaski's bones, and if he really had female anatomy, or if he really was intersex, then he is an example of how there have always been people whose lives and whose bodies don't align with their society's understanding or expectations around sex and gender. This is not a new thing at all. But if that's the case, we really don't have information at all about how Pulaski felt about it, or how he understood himself. And it's also possible that those are just someone else's bones, and that the test results that were announced on America's hidden stories are incorrect. If those results have been published somewhere and subjected to peer review, I sure could not find it.
50:28 Holly Frey? Aside from the ongoing debates around Pulaski's burial site, and whether the bones from the monument are his, as we said, soon after his death at the Siege of Savannah, he was being hailed as a hero. And he became a particularly important hero to the Polish immigrant community in the US, especially as people fled to North America after a rebellion against Russian rule started in Poland in 1830. In 1833, a fort on Cocksborough Island off the coast of Savannah was named in his honor. Now it is Fort Pulaski National Monument. There are also a lot of cities, towns, streets, et cetera, that are named for him. The USS
51:09 Holly Frey? Pulaski was a steamship that was in service from 1858 to 1863. And then the USS Casimir Pulaski was a submarine that was in service from 1964 to 1994.
51:22 Tracy V. Wilson? During World War I, the stories of Casimir Pulaski and of Polish engineer Tadeusz Kajukow were both used as propaganda to try to raise American support for Poland. Kajukow also fought during the Revolutionary War, and he arguably had a bigger impact on the course of the war than Pulaski did. He did a lot of work that involved things like fortifications. Kajukow returns to Poland after the war, and he died there on October 15, 1817.
51:52 Holly Frey? Today, General Pulaski Memorial Day is observed in the US on October 11. Presidential proclamations about the day often reference Pulaski's sacrifice, as well as that of Polish Americans who have served in the US Armed Forces more generally. In 1977, after years of advocacy, primarily by Chicago's Polish community, the first Monday in March was also established as Casimir Polaski Day in Illinois. Chicago has one of the largest concentrations of Polish people outside of Poland, and apparently this date was chosen to avoid a collision with the observance of Columbus Day. In 1985, Casimir Polaski Day was made a full
52:35 Holly Frey? public holiday in Illinois rather than just a commemorative day. This change to the holiday's status happened alongside the establishment of Martin Luther King Jr. Day as a federal holiday in 1983 that went into effect in 1986.
52:52 Tracy V. Wilson? In 2009, Casimir Polaski became one of only eight people to be given honorary US citizenship. This was sponsored by Illinois Senator Richard Durbin with a lot of co-sponsors, and it was passed by unanimous consent. It was signed by President Barack Obama on November 6th of that year. If you're thinking it seems a little odd to give people citizenship posthumously, only a couple of the people who have received honorary US citizenship were alive when it happened.
53:25 Tracy V. Wilson? So that's Casimir Polaski.
53:27 Holly Frey? Do you have some alive listener mail?
53:29 Tracy V. Wilson? I do have a live listener mail. This is from Rosalie, and Rosalie wrote, after we were talking about Peter Kropotkin being in prison and it getting dark at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. So Rosalie wrote, "Hi Holly and Tracy. I saved up maybe a few too many episodes from my recent half marathon, and now I'm a touch behind. Thanks for not making me cry this year with the topics while I was racing, which happens sometimes. You're still my favorite hang while running long distance, so it's worth the risk. Anyway, all that to say, in your behind the scenes for Peter Kropotkin, Tracy mentioned the early sunsets in New England. I'm prepping for my summer job at the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and I have to give some hate to the early summer
54:12 Tracy V. Wilson? sunrises. Bird chorus gets started at 4, feels like, and I'm never ready."
54:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Especially after a night up in the lab until 2 a.m. I tell all the students to bring a good eye mask for the pet section. I'm sad to report that my beloved Rufus passed on after about 19 wonderful years. Ed is still a menace, but he's our menace. Not sure when I'll be ready for another cat, but we had the opportunity to rescue the world's sweetest dog, and he's actually been helping my heart. Still waiting for his name to come to us. Pictured his dog, Ed on his poof, and Rufus in one of our last snugs. Thanks for all the miles, Rosalie. Well, thank you, Rosalie, for this email, and thank you for these great pet pictures. I love them so much. I'm sorry for your loss of Rufus.
54:58 Tracy V. Wilson? I wanted to thank you for the reminder that I needed to replace my eye masks because I lose them. They get lost while traveling. They like fall down and get kicked under the bed, and then the cats kick them farther under the bed. The various things that I just, I am great at losing eye masks, and they are a wonderful, wonderful help when the sun is coming up so early in Massachusetts, and it would be even a little bit earlier at Woods Hole than at my house.
55:30 Holly Frey? I would rather deal with the sun coming up with than an eye mask. It's kind of the same thing that makes me not like wearing earbuds. I just don't like.
55:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, sure.
55:36 Holly Frey? It makes me crazy. I can't sleep right.
55:38 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah. I understand.
55:41 Holly Frey? I keep finding eye masks and going, why do I have so many eye masks? So I should just start shipping them to you.
55:47 Tracy V. Wilson? My best guess is going to be red eye flights. Sometimes they are handed out on them.
55:53 Holly Frey? Exactly.
55:54 Tracy V. Wilson? And yeah, I, I do sleep a whole lot better in the summertime in Massachusetts when I have an eye mask on because otherwise the sunlight wakes me up very early. We currently have a cat who is having to wear a donut, and she cannot, we have a little thing that keeps the door to the bedroom partially open. She cannot get in and out through it with the donut on, so we have to leave the door wide open, and that just brings another source of sunlight from a window into the room, and it is like full daylight.
56:26 Holly Frey? That's not a problem for me.
56:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, even with our even with our lined blinds that keep the other windows darker. So, thank you again for this email and these pictures. If you would like to send us a note, we're at [email protected] . If you would like to see the research that went into this episode, all of our show notes, that's on our website, which is at missinhistory.com. And you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else you like to get your podcasts.
57:00 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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58:49 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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