EZRA FRECH: "I Was Put on This Earth to Change the Way We See Disability"

Ezra Frech shares the mindset, discipline, and determination that have shaped his career and led him to win two Paralympic gold medals. From turning heartbreak in Tokyo into motivation to using visualization and meditation to perform under pressure, Ezra reveals how he prepares for the biggest moments of his career. He also opens up about competing on Dancing With the Stars, breaking down misconceptions about disability, and founding Angel City Sports to make adaptive sports more accessible to the next generation. Instagram Teen Accounts: Built-in protections for teens. Learn More. At https://chase.com/sapphirereserve JAY'S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Introduction 01:20 "Pressure Doesn't Exist" 02:51 The Day Ezra Was Born 06:24 The 15-Hour Surgery At Age 3 11:15 The Kindergarten Letter 13:29 Learning To Handle The Stares 16:21 Overcoming Stigma And Bullying 23:18 Falling In Love With Sports 27:00 Changing Culture & Looking Ahead to LA 2028 31:09 Mentorship From Pau Gasol 33:56 A Message From Novak Djokovic 36:53 How Do You Define Confidence? 40:43 The Moment That Inspired His Paralympic Dream 44:35 Making Team USA At 14 48:41 How Running Blades Actually Work 52:09 Tokyo Heartbreak & "The Man In The Arena" 58:53 Visualizing Paris Gold Every Morning 01:04:50 Protecting His Good Leg 01:11:33 Winning Double Gold & The 20-Minute Rule 01:17:00 Meditation Under Pressure 01:20:34 A Lifelong Dream to Compete on Dancing With the Stars 01:24:14 Inside the Dancing With the Stars Family 01:27:19 Learning To Dance On A Blade 01:30:12 Pressure Is A Privilege 01:32:10 Making Adaptive Sports Mainstream 01:37:10 Ezra On Final 5 Episode Resources Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/ezrafrech/ TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@ezrafrech Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/teamezra05/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:27Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself, because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon.

• 1:50Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is two-time Paralympic gold medalist and world record holder Ezra Frech. He's one of the most exciting young athletes in the world, a powerful voice for disability representation. And he's already changing the way people see what's possible. Now you can see him taking on a completely new challenge on Dancing with the Stars. If you haven't been watching already, Ezra Frech, welcome to On Purpose.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Wow, thank you for having me.

• 2:21Jay Shetty?

  I am so inspired by you. Honestly, when I was preparing for this interview, I was looking at what you've achieved in your life, how you moved through the world. I've watched your interviews, how you respond and react. And not only are you so impressive with what you pull off, you're so gracious and grateful and kind. And I'm like, wow, this guy is, you know.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  They can make me blush, man.

• 2:45Jay Shetty?

  He's doing life right, man.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It is a real honor to be here.

• 2:51Jay Shetty?

  We're going to get into some really deep stuff. I wanted to ask you, like, what is more pressure? Competing in the Paralympics? Or doing the cha-cha in front of millions of people on Dancing with the Stars?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Honestly, my philosophy on pressure is that it doesn't even exist. I feel like pressure is, what is Matthew McConaughey saying in The Wolf Watch? It's a woozy, it's a fairy dust. It never existed. It's almost like me admitting that there's pressure then convinces myself that that's a negative situation to be in. When in reality, I don't even see it as pressure. I just see it as real beautiful opportunity. Competing at the Paralympics, that's... Competing in track and field, I grew up doing that. Of course, that's more comfortable. Dancing on live TV is way out of my comfort zone. I have no dance experience. I've never, never done that before. So that is more out of my comfort zone. But I don't even see it as pressure. I see it as just a lot of fun, a beautiful opportunity

• 3:44Speaker 01

  to fulfill my purpose, what I feel like I was put on this earth for. And so, all positivity. Because sometimes people say pressure, or people say nerves, they get stressed, or they say fear, and all of a sudden, you're creating a negative emotion in your body. And you're more likely to feel that emotion when you say it like that. So in my head, it's like, there's no pressure. This is, this is joy.

• 4:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, you see that. You're crushing it on Dancing with the Stars.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Have you been watching?

• 4:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I have been, I have been. It's amazing to watch you.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Have you been voting for me?

• 4:10Jay Shetty?

  I haven't, yeah. I need to start.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Okay, you gotta vote, thanks.

• 4:13Jay Shetty?

  I'm always catching up on the highlights. So I'm always watching after the fact. But not that you need my vote. I think you're doing just fine. But I'll jump in and vote for you.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you.

• 4:22Jay Shetty?

  But I wanted to go back to the beginning. When you were born, your parents were told that you were limb deficient. And I find that fascinating, that they saw that not as just information they received. They decided to make it the purpose of why you existed. Walk me, obviously, you can't remember the moment you were born, but talk to me about your earliest memories of learning that you were limb deficient.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  It's a pretty crazy situation, just based on the fact that they didn't know I was going to be born with a physical disability. So I was born and I had one finger on my left hand, a left leg that's curved up towards my waist. My mom tells a story. There was so many people in the delivery room. My mom packed it with family and friends. And my father started kicking people out of the room. And my mom was like, why is, why is everyone getting kicked out of the room? And it's because he was freaking out. He didn't know what, what to do. This child looked different. And of course, they didn't know if there was anything else wrong. And they had to run a bunch of tests. But once it was obviously just a physical disability, my parents had this, this moment where it was, I think it was a few days after I was, I was born. My mother was on the phone with the friend and she was saying,

• 5:31Speaker 01

  what an amazing mother my mom is going to be and how special this, this, this child is going to be. And my mother said something along the lines of, you know, any mother would be so, so loving to their child, regardless of the circumstance. And then she opens up the front page of the LA Times. And right there, there was an article about a trash scavenger in China who had adopted 43 children. Those kids were found in the trash because they had some sort of difference. Missing limbs, missing fingers, cleft palate. Those were kids that were left in the trash to die, that were born just like the baby she had just given birth to. On a global level, difference is something that people are afraid of.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Disability is something that people are afraid of. And my parents were huge environmental advocates. My father worked for the EPA. They basically decided at this moment, that purpose was going to be shifted to this contingent of the population that didn't have any advocates, that had nobody speaking up those kids around the world, born different, even in America. People with differences didn't have advocates in that way. And their life mission shifted from that point. And so I feel like I was born into a home filled with a deep sense of purpose about what I was put on this earth to do. And I feel that coursing through my veins.

• 6:54Jay Shetty?

  I was lucky enough to just meet your mom too. She's here with you. She has the most wonderful energy.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 7:00Jay Shetty?

  I was honored, actually, to meet her. Because when I was studying your story, obviously, she's been such a pivotal person in your life. And just seeing the relationship you both have. You know, after all these years, from that moment when she made that commitment and oriented your purpose in that way. And now you're like, living and breathing it.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Well, it's because of them, right? It's because of my parents. I can't imagine how scary it is to have your first child be born with a limb difference. You don't know what to expect. You don't know what life is going to look like for this child. And especially at a time where you don't see a lot of disability representation. There, you're not turning on the TV screen at the time and seeing so many people with disabilities. And so, what to expect from life when you have a child with a disability? That can be daunting and that can be scary. So I'm, I am beyond grateful for the way that they raised me. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Props to my parents, they're the best.

• 7:54Jay Shetty?

  Instagram teen accounts come with automatic protections that limit who can contact teens, the content they can see, and the time they spend on the app. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. For someone who doesn't understand your condition or doesn't understand what limb deficiency is, can you explain what you were born with and what you had to go through in order to be at this position?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  I had one finger on my left hand. And I had a lower left leg that was curved up towards my waist. And I had a surgery at about three years old, which was a whole, it's for, almost for a whole other time. Like, to go through the decision-making that my parents had to figure out of, we're going to amputate our child's leg and then take the big toe that was formerly from the foot and put it on on my left hand in order to create more mobility. Because if I were to grow and that leg would continue to grow upwards, I would have... Very little mobility. So amputating it right at the knee and then they took the big toe and they put it on my left hand. So when I'm three years old, my parents are making a life altering decision, which thank God they made that decision. I would be nowhere near as mobile as I am today.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  But it basically allowed me to have a stump that could fit into a prosthetic and then I got a second finger. So I could pick things up. I could hold things. And if you think about it, like a little kid, if they're holding toys, as for me, I was holding it against my chest because I didn't have opposition. I got that second finger. I could pick things up. I could hold things. So transformed my hand functionality on my left hand and then it allowed my mobility from my prosthetic side to be way, way better. I get chills thinking about it right, right now, but it's so scary to think that you're making a decision for your child that's going to forever impact the way they move through the world. And they made the right decision 100%, but there was a lot of, a

• 9:48Speaker 01

  lot of emotional turmoil when you're amputating your child's leg and transplanting a toe to the hand. And the surgery itself was crazy. 15 hours under a microscope, connecting nerves and tendons and arteries smaller than the width of a hair. There was a point actually, and it's, it's so crazy to think about, but we spent a lot of time trying to get the toe to attach. And one of the ways that you can tell if the body has accepted this finger is if it wrinkles in the bath. And so months later, after the surgery, we've done all the right things. I've been doing P T O T and I was in the bath for a long time and my thumb wrinkled for the first time as a sign that my

• 10:31Speaker 01

  body had officially accepted that new part. And we went crazy and my parents were crying and I was three years old, but I still remember that.

• 10:39Jay Shetty?

  You remember that?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Cause I remember the, the feelings associated with finally this piece of my body that we just attached being connected. I can't even imagine having a child and having to make a decision like that. I have so much respect for my parents and the way they handled the process.

• 10:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I mean, so much respect to your parents and also must have been an incredible doctor who had.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yes. Shout out to my incredible doctor, Boston Children's Hospital.

• 11:03Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Dr. Upton. I remember when we walked into his office. It's crazy. I remember this actually. I was really young, but I have flashes of memory. We walked into his office and on the wall of his office, he just has all of the different hands that he's done. All these different hands, all look different, all unique, but surgeries that he's done to make people's hands functional in so many different ways. And I remember seeing that and be like, oh, I'm in good hand. No pun intended, but I'm in good hands with this amazing doctor.

• 11:35Jay Shetty?

  Was that beautiful to see as well? Was that, was there something about that? Like that visual, even the way you described it, I was like, wow, like.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Mold's of all of the surgeries that he's done, the hands that he's done. It's A goes to show you how beautiful and different each situation is, but then also that this amazing doctor really knew what he was doing. I was in the best hands and worked out great. This is the hand, this is the finger. We added this finger and then now 18 years later, I'm having to hold my partner's hand on Dancing with the Stars. If I didn't have that finger, it would be much harder. So.

• 12:07Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. That's incredible. It's, it shows us also the power of like not knowing how decisions impact us decades later and how great choices, great decisions, love, purpose, belief in you.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Intuition even, like.

• 12:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  My parents were following their intuition and, and, and trusting that they were making the right decision. And it, it was absolutely unequivocally the right decision.

• 12:31Jay Shetty?

  There's so much to discuss of where you are now, but I want to keep focusing on where it started out because when you talk about it, I get, it's like just being in your presence, I get pumped up. Like I'm like, like, you know, this, you have such a, you have such a contagious, like enthusiastic energy that comes across, but I'm like, also trying to remember that what you've been through is extremely difficult. And even though you wear it with so much confidence and, and greatness, which I, which I admire and aspire, it's like just remembering that it wasn't always easy and, and there were difficult moments for your parents, for yourself. And one thing that I was blown away by was before you started kindergarten, your parents worked with Dr. Betsy Brown on writing a letter to all the other parents at your school for the experience you might have. I read the full

• 13:16Jay Shetty?

  letter, but if it's okay with you, I wanted to just read a small excerpt.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Never heard the letter.

• 13:21Jay Shetty?

  You've never heard the letter?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Never heard the letter. I've heard about the letter, but I've never heard what was in the letter.

• 13:25Jay Shetty?

  I'll send you the full version because it's long, but I'll read you a part of it if that's okay.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  I would love to hear.

• 13:31Jay Shetty?

  We're not wasting our energy blaming anybody or anything. We believe that every child is unique and has obstacles to overcome, whether they are physical, emotional or intellectual. Ezra's happens to be physical. Our goal is to help Ezra to grow up and meet his potential, whatever that may be. Our charge is to ensure he feels strong and self-confident and to help him confront and adapt his differences and eventually feel like any other child. Don't set limits for him. Instead, encourage and support him in pursuit of his own limits.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 14:09Jay Shetty?

  I can't believe you've never heard that before.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Never heard that. Damn. They were so proactive sending letters like that, cultivating the energy, the environment that I was in. That's so crazy to hear. I've heard about this letter, but hearing it, it's totally different. And I can just imagine wide eyed parents, kid with a disability, putting him in a new environment. Hope I lived up to those words. We didn't, we didn't set limits.

• 14:43Jay Shetty?

  I think you're doing beyond.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  We didn't set limits.

• 14:44Jay Shetty?

  I think you're doing beyond.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Wow, it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I'd never, I'd never heard that before.

• 14:49Jay Shetty?

  I mean, your parents will have the full version, but I'll send it to you anyway. I have the full version that I read when I was preparing and that was, that was an excerpt that I just felt was super, super powerful. I didn't know you hadn't heard it, but it's also so empowering. Like it's the way it's written. And, and if I was a parent receiving that, I'd be like, wow, like I should parent like this regardless. Like, you know, regardless of any challenge that my kid's going through, I wish.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  They filled me with confidence as a young kid, filled me with confidence.

• 15:18Jay Shetty?

  What did they say when you were young? What did, what did they do to do that?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  I mean, growing up with a disability, not easy. Everywhere you go in public, people staring, pointing fingers, whispering. I felt like a zoo animal in many ways. I felt ostracized from society. Every time I went in public, people pointing and whispering. That's hard, especially in those formative years. I remember my mother always told me, she said, you walk into every room with your chin up, your chest out, you look everyone in the eye, you let them know you've arrived. My disability was never the thing that held me back growing up because that's the way my parents wanted it to be. Anything that I was in pursuit of, like you heard in the letter, anything

• 16:01Speaker 01

  I wanted to try, anything that seemed like a challenge, my parents welcomed it 100% and encouraged me to pursue it. And it's a combination of two things, I think. It was my family support, the backing, knowing that these people had my back. No matter what, they filled me up every day with confidence, owning who I was. My mother, since I was young, she always told me, everybody's different. Whether you look different, you think different, you act different, yours just happens to be physical. We never wore pants. My whole upbringing, I never wore pants, always shorts, showed off my prosthetic. And when people would stare in public, my mother would flip it. She would just say, you're, you're missing a leg. Of course people are going to stare. Everyone stares at

• 16:42Speaker 01

  everybody. Someone has really cool hair, you stare at them. Someone's really pretty, you stare at them. Someone's driving a cool car, you stare. Humans stare at everybody. And so of course you're missing a leg, people are going to look, let them look. That was the mentality is lean into the disability, own it. This is who I am. This is what makes me unique. So growing up with that type of support and backing and understanding that my disability was something beautiful, something that made me stand out, something that gave me this chip on my shoulder to work harder and a deep sense of purpose as opposed to something that's super negative. And that type of framing my whole childhood just changed the way I viewed myself. And then you couple that

• 17:25Speaker 01

  familial support with sport where I fell in love with the escape of sport and being active and movement, playing basketball with my friends, the nature of my disability being an amputee, I could keep up with my buddies. I could play whatever sport and I naturally excelled at that and I found home there. And so the combination of those two things really gave me confidence as a young kid and that just continued to translate. But that backbone comes from my parents, comes from that letter, comes from not setting limits and is translated to this day.

• 17:58Jay Shetty?

  It's really beautiful how you honor your parents, but you had to do that too. And, and I think a lot of people's parents tell them to do things that are good for them, but most of us don't listen. And so the fact that you were able to actually do that, was there ever a time when you were trying to embody that mindset, walking with your chest big, chin up, trying to be positive, but the finger pointing, the whispering or anything even worse got really hard? Like was there ever a moment where you were like, this is the worst thing ever?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  There was so many moments like that. And, and especially when I was younger, I would ask my parents, why was I born like this? Why am I the only kid in my school with one leg? Why am I the only kid in my school that looks different? There, there was a lot of moments like that. And I just remember a point where I was thinking, it was almost like a switch had flipped. I was just, there's, I thought there's literally nothing I can do. There's no way for me to change my situation. I might as well just make the most out of my life, not wallow in the pity, wallow in the sadness and flip it and be like, I'm just gonna own my life.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  I'm gonna pursue the things I wanna pursue and accept who I am. But there, it was a transition. I've never even said this, but there's, I accepted my missing of a leg sooner than I accepted my left hand. I was more comfortable accepting my prosthetic, the fact that I'm missing a leg and feeling confident and comfortable in it than my left hand. Like, there was points, even middle school, early high school, where I would hide my left hand naturally, just naturally put it behind my back or naturally stand in certain ways. And that was not that long ago, but, and I've actually never said that publicly, but there's a process to acceptance. It's not a single moment.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  And I accepted my prosthetic and thought it felt cooler, but never understood the importance and of accepting my hand as well. It wasn't like one moment. I, it was a gradual process. And I accepted different parts of my disability at different points.

• 20:16Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think that was for you? What was it about your hand?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  It's probably because my prosthetic, I felt, looked cool.

• 20:23Jay Shetty?

  Right, right, right.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  And I didn't feel like my left hand did. And it was shorter and looked so different. And also it comes from reactions, like moments even with girls as a young kid where, this is so random, but I can't believe I'm thinking of this, but like one time I put my arm around some girl that I liked and, and she went and told everybody like Ezra put, Ezra put his creepy hand around me, like little things like that when you're young in middle school that change your perception of yourself in some ways. And so I definitely accepted my prosthetic side sooner than I accepted my, my hand.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Cause also like a prosthetic, it could be class, it's like cool, it's unique, it's like a piece of technology and my left hand, like, I don't know, it didn't have that same type of appeal in my head.

• 21:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I mean, yeah, that's the worst thing.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  It's, I've never spoken about, you know, this is like therapy. I've never even said that story ever in my life. But it's those little things that you don't think about that when we have a conversation like this, like, oh, that happened and that, that might be why I felt like this. It's crazy to, you know, piece it together backwards almost.

• 21:36Jay Shetty?

  Now that I understand your reasoning, I'm like, it's very natural why you would think that and why it's taken longer for you to accept your hand versus your leg. I love what you said about this idea of like, it's not like overnight. It's not like one day you wake up and all of a sudden you go, oh, I'm good with it now. Like, I get it. Like, it makes sense. Like, what were the steps in learning to accept your hand from that moment you hear such a hurtful thing from a girl that you, you know, for any of us, any, any guy who can relate to the fact that when you like a girl in middle school and you put your arm around, and to hear that, to go from that to now being at a point when you said, because of this hand, I can dance with my partner on Dancing with the Stars. Like, you said that with so much confidence. Talk to me about the steps between that moment and this to accept that, because it's putting your arm around someone.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Every guy knows, you, you take a risk in any way with a girl. If anything goes wrong, it hurts so much more. The capabilities to accept myself, it was baked into me. From the love from my parents, I, I knew the pathway. I knew how to get there. I knew the path to walk down. It was about letting go and walking down that path. And part of it just comes, I think, with time. Like, in middle school, everybody's insecure. In early high school, everybody's insecure. Part of it honestly was having successful relationships with women that saw me for who I was beyond like some physical difference and particularly with my left hand.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  So I had some healing experiences with girls post that one incident that definitely helped progress towards a point of acceptance. But I had the framework. It was there. And oftentimes we know how to get to a certain point, but it's actually taking the steps to get there that is the challenging part.

• 23:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Because you have to take a risk and you have to do something that's uncomfortable. Oftentimes it's easier to just sit in our own thoughts and sit in our insecurity as opposed to break free from that. And in this case, once again, I, I felt like I had the framework. It was there. And the confidence in who I was was baked into me. And this was just that, that final piece of the puzzle that I needed to push through. And came with time, came with healing experiences with other girls and came with me just maturing a little bit and the combination of that. And then eventually like now our first dance on Dancing with the Stars, the first time the camera even pans to me

• 24:09Speaker 01

  is I point my left hand out to camera and that's what Danny, my partner grabs. That's our first dance, the main section of it. I was leading entirely with my left hand and my left leg. Cause in ballroom and in tango, that's what you, what you lead with is that left side. So a full 180, but also a reminder that acceptance doesn't come in one specific moment. And it's a process. It's an evolution. And this is the first time I'm really looking back and piecing it all together. But it was probably a combination of those things.

• 24:40Jay Shetty?

  It's knowing that you actually had to do more uncomfortable things. It was like you go through this discomfort and actually the only thing that could heal your feeling of it was to go into that discomfort even more.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Even more.

• 24:52Jay Shetty?

  Even more, which is so hard to do when you're already dealing with that much stress, fear.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  It's the last thing you wanna do.

• 25:01Jay Shetty?

  It's the last thing you wanna do. Exactly. Well said. Yeah. It's the last thing you wanna do. And, but you're saying that's the thing that worked. Ezra, for you, I mean, despite everything your mom and dad did for you, I read that mom and dad were not your first words. It was ball. So I was like, you've been talking to a lot of-

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love my parents. My first word was ball.

• 25:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. I was like, when I read that, I was cracking up. I was like, especially now where I see how much you love your parents and how amazing they are, obviously, but mom and dad didn't make it. It was ball. You said something to me that, that really resonated before we started recording and you were saying that, you know, actually when someone gets a disability or has a limb deficiency, sport is the last thing that they're trained to think about or that becomes a possibility for them. How did sports become such a big part of your life that young?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Society almost tells you if you have a physical disability, sports is not for you. There's no systems set up for recreational sport, even high school sport, collegiate sport at the same level, anywhere near what it is for the average middle schooler or high schooler that could just go, if you're in a wheelchair, you can't just roll up to the YMCA and jump in a wheelchair basketball game. You need specific chair, specific game setup. There's all these barriers to entry for the community to participate in sport. And honestly, it was the way, not to, not to go back on my parents, but it was the way my parents raised me. There was never any limitations and naturally, literally, I just loved sport. I loved basketball as a young kid. My first word was ball. I was a diehard Lakers fan. I watched every single game.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  I actually even learned to count by twos before I learned how to count by ones. Because I watched so many Laker games over and over and over. And so something in my soul felt like I connected to sport. And the unfortunate thing is if there was another child who had maybe a more severe disability than myself, they wouldn't be able to just jump in and play sports with their friends the way I was. It was because I was an amputee and, and the disability isn't as severe. I was able to play with my friends. And also even the ones that do integrate still face massive, massive discrimination. And when we talk about disability, it is such a large percentage of the population. I don't even think people really understand.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  This is 15% of the world population that lives with a physical disability. That's 50 million Americans. That's a billion people globally. And for context, cognitive disability, intellectual impairment is about 2 to 3%. And physical disability is 15%. Some reports have it up at 20%. It's such a large minority group, but then where is the access to basic sport? And most people with disabilities actually acquire their disability. A small percentage are born with a disability like myself. Most people acquire it through diseases, cancer, diabetes, stroke, accidents, car, boating accidents, whatever it might be. Disability really doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care if you're young, old, white, black.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Disability doesn't care if you're rich. It doesn't care if you're poor. It is the minority group that anyone could be a part of it at any time. And so it's crazy to think that if someone acquires a disability, the reality is they think their ability to live an active, healthy lifestyle is over, and that is so far from the truth.

• 28:18Jay Shetty?

  It's always so uncomfortable when, you know, you realize just how unless you've had a friend with a disability or a family member, you don't actually understand.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  You don't.

• 28:29Jay Shetty?

  How much there is lack of access or what kind of mindsets or aspiration society places on a community. Or when you just reeled off those statistics, like, I don't think I even knew this.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:41Jay Shetty?

  And I feel terrible saying that, but it's, I feel so uneducated saying that. But it just shows how much of a need there is for us to have these conversations and for us to talk about these things.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And that's why representation is so important. Because not everyone is going to have a close family member that has a disability, that they're able to understand their experiences. But on a macro level, how do you change society? You change society by touching culture. And there's moments in sport where sport can be that catalyst, can be the thing that transcends, touches culture, changes the way we think about something. Like Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs, changing the way the world views women's tennis. Nelson Mandela using rugby to unify a country. Jackie Robinson, right, playing in the MLB. There's moments in time where sport transcends the movement it resides in

• 29:35Speaker 01

  and changes the way we think about something. And so that's why I think we have that similar opportunity in 2028, when the Paralympics come to Los Angeles as our chance to change the way America and the world views disability through sport. But even from a representation standpoint, it is the honor of a lifetime to be on a show like Dancing with the Stars, where kids with disabilities, people with disabilities all over the country can turn on the TV screen and see somebody like themselves? That's so powerful. There was not that many people in the mainstream media with a physical disability when I was a young kid I could look to and be inspired by. There was a few, and they were actually on Dancing with the Stars. Dancing with the Stars has a great history of disability representation,

• 30:19Speaker 01

  which is so grateful to be able to continue that. But that's so important. I want to be that person for the next generation, want to be that person for people with disabilities to know that there's somebody like me on the TV screen. Because representation is so powerful for every other minority group. Disability is the last frontier. It's lagged behind. And I don't know why, but it's, it's my mission to accelerate that.

• 30:46Jay Shetty?

  I'm so excited to see what you go on to do from this standpoint, from sports, entertainment, being an advocate for this space. Why do you think it is, though? Like, when you, when you put it that way, that it's the last frontier, it is. It's such a large minority, you know? And, and it's not had that representation. What do you think that is? Like, what's happening?

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Honestly, I think it's because people are afraid of it. Disability is taboo. People don't know what to say. They don't want to say the wrong thing. They end up not saying anything at all. And that is so counterproductive. We need the conversation. We need people to approach it with good intentions. Maybe they get the language 5% off, but if they're approaching it with good intentions and we're sparking conversation, that's so important. And for some reason, disability is seen as a super negative thing. There's places all over the world where people with disabilities are seen as cursed. They're seen as less than. They're left to be beggars in the streets. Of course, that's not, that's not the same way in America, but still,

• 31:48Speaker 01

  people with disabilities are bullied in higher rates, less physically active, less job opportunities, depressed in higher rates. Like, this is a percentage of the population. Doesn't feel properly included in society almost. And so how do we change that at a, at a macro level? I don't know, but representation, growth of the Paralympics, seeing people with disabilities do things, changes the way you perceive disability. But, I mean, I talk to kids with disabilities all the time. They're all bullied in school. It should not be that way.

• 32:23Jay Shetty?

  I was about to say, if anyone wants to see anything, like, you just got to watch one of your high jump videos. And like, all of a sudden, you're like, yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  But that's, I appreciate that. And, and that's the thing is like, social media is a very, it can be superficial, of course. But the way I think of social media and anything that we pursue or go after is like, every like, every view, every comment, that's someone where disability is hopefully slightly more normalized in their eyes. And if you do that enough on a large enough scale, that's real change.

• 32:57Jay Shetty?

  I was going to ask you two things, because I really want to get into the Paralympics in a moment and more on Dancing with the Stars, but two things that I wanted to ask you about there. You said you were a huge Lakers fan, and I, I heard that you're a big Gasol fan. And I think you even met him when you were like, really young.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Pau Gasol.

• 33:16Jay Shetty?

  On Good Morning America, was it?

• 33:17Speaker 01

  My brother.

• 33:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  I was a diehard Lakers fan growing up, like you said. And at four years old, Good Morning America did this segment on me because I would talk to schools and talk about disability when I was a young kid. And they surprised me with tickets to a Laker game. And then surprised me backstage, I got to meet Pau. He's my hero, my idol. I used to make my mom draw a mascara beard so I could go to preschool because I loved Pau that much. And he was at the height of his career. He just won two championships. And he met this four-year-old kid with a disability who loved him. And we became so close. We would have dinner together, go over to each other's houses.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  He'd come over to my house, hang out with my grandma, my grandpa, my brothers. I mean, he became like a mentor, older brother figure for me. Is one of the best basketball players in the world and a four, four-year-old kid with a disability. And we became so close. He literally took me under his wing. And then eventually, when my career started taking off athletically, he is somebody I am still close to to this day. I go to for advice. He's done it. He's created a beautiful life of sport and career and impact that I hope to emulate. So he is always big bro to me, but we met literally Good Morning America, surprising me getting to meet my idol.

• 34:41Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. What, what have you learned from him over the years? Or what's the one thing that he's taught you over the years that stands out? That's really resonated with you?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  He is the perfect example of using your platform in the right way. He uses the, the sport to create real impact. There aren't that many athletes at that level that have created such a life of impact and purpose like Pau. Of course, mine is in a, in a different lane for the disabled community. But the way that he approaches business, the way that he approaches his career, the way that he approaches his impact strategy is so thoughtful and so aligned with him that I hope to embody that energy and hopefully literally have a similar type of career in that sense and emulate the way he's been able to create such a positive impact.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Like Pau Gasol has a massive net impact on society as a whole, separate from his basketball career.

• 35:42Jay Shetty?

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• 38:03Speaker 01

  Just as a human being, and that's very special.

• 38:06Jay Shetty?

  Ezra, have there been any athletes that you look up to that have ever reached out to you?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Well, one of them, who's a friend of yours, I think, Novak Djokovic, actually. We've exchanged messages a few times. We met at an event and he is a fantastic human being. And I lost my world title last year and I was really bummed. And it was sort of a difficult moment for me, as you have in sport. And he sent a really sweet message to me. And honestly, it made me feel a lot better and put things in perspective. And just reminded me of all of the stuff that he's had to go through throughout his career and the type of human being and athlete and purpose-driven individual that he is. I dream of modeling my career after him as well in many ways, just from that standpoint. So sometimes when you're in those low moments,

• 38:53Speaker 01

  hearing from someone that you respect and look up to, that you admire so much, like him, it wakes you up, snaps you out of your spell, you could say. So that's what he did for me.

• 39:03Jay Shetty?

  Was there anything that he said specifically that resonated?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  It was just something along the lines of like, you know, keep your head up, champ. These things happen. There's always highs and lows. I know you'll bounce back stronger than ever. You're an amazing, well, like it was, it was one of those. And I was just like, man.

• 39:18Jay Shetty?

  That's really meaningful.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  I was like, if Novak thinks that, I mean, I can think that of myself. Sometimes other people's confidence, especially someone like him, can remind you who you are and give you that fuel. And that's what it did for me.

• 39:33Jay Shetty?

  Was there a reason you think you're, because I imagine your approach and everything was similar. Was there a reason why you think you lost your world title last year?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  We released a documentary, actually, on Peacock. It's called Adaptive. It was, it was three episodes, 45 minutes, still on the platform. So if anyone wants to know me, know me really well, you can watch that. But we, we released that right before the world championships. And I had to go on like a whole press tour. So training was a little bit more inconsistent. And of course, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity to get to release a documentary. I had, I had to go for it. And I ended up getting injured throughout that process because I wasn't able to have that same type of recovery and rest and that I usually have. So I hurt my back and I wasn't able to train for, on the track, a month leading into the world championships. And I had the opportunity to pull out.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  And I thought about it and I said, I could go there and there's a chance I lose or I could pull out just because I'm injured. And the real competitor in me was like, I will never back down. If there's even a 1% chance I can go out there and win, I'm going to go for it. And so sure enough, didn't go my way. I got silver and, and, and lost to one of my, my biggest competitors, but still don't regret it whatsoever. I get not that many opportunities throughout my career to compete at a world championships. Doesn't matter if I'm injured, doesn't matter if I'm in crazy pain. I'm going to go out there, I'm going to give it my all. And, and I walked away with a silver medal. Like it sucks, but I was proud of the way I fought.

• 41:03Jay Shetty?

  When I hear you speak, you're so confident. I wanted to ask you, like, how, how do you define confidence?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  I define confidence as a relationship with yourself. It comes and goes at times, but at the core of it, it's my relationship with myself. If I say something, my word, I must stick to it. And if I say I'm gonna sleep at this time, I sleep at that time. If I say I'm gonna do something, I do it. I really, I really value the power of the spoken word. I had a dear friend of mine tell me that words are spells that couldn't be more true. As in what you say manifests in your body, manifests in your mind. And so the relationship you have with yourself

• 41:51Speaker 01

  is, is the most important relationship you'll ever have. I do my absolute best to speak to myself positively, keep positive intentions. But then also when I say something, when I believe something, commit to it. And so if I say, for example, I'm not eating sugar until after the Los Angeles 2028 Paralympics, that means I won't have even one bite of cake that's not sugar-free. That means if I say I'm not gonna have any alcohol until after the, that means I won't have anything. Because I know one beer, I know that one bite of cake isn't actually making that big of a difference physically, but it's actually for my confidence. It's actually my relationship with myself.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  I want to be able to tell myself something and commit to it. And you do that over a long enough period of time. You're proving to yourself that you are who you say you are. And it doesn't have to be big things like that. These are little things. I'm gonna work out after lunch. If you don't work out after lunch, then the next time you say that, your brain's not even believing yourself. And so you continue to stack these little wins and little wins. And eventually you build yourself into the type of person that when I say something, I do that thing. And if I'm not gonna do it, I don't say it.

• 43:05Jay Shetty?

  Are you actually doing those things that you just said?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I am though, doing those things.

• 43:08Jay Shetty?

  Wow, so no sugar or alcohol?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 43:11Jay Shetty?

  Until after the 2028 Paralympics.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so usually I would do no sugar in the, during the track season. And then after season, I would eat like crazy. And after the last Paralympics, I said, I have to, I have to one up myself. I have to do something even greater. I have a hometown Paralympics coming. I was like, all right, no, no added sugar for the next four years. I have natural sugars, fruit and honey and stuff.

• 43:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  But I won't have any, any junk food, any cake, any candies that have, that have added sugar. And I know it doesn't make a difference. If I have one piece of candy, my grandma's always like, one bite of the cake, please. I'm like, I'm like, Mimi, you know me, I can't. If I have one, it makes the second one easier. I've broken that relationship with myself.

• 43:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  And granted, everybody's different. Not everyone's confidence should come from them not eating sugar for four years, but rather that, that confidence should come from what you commit to yourself and making sure you follow through on that. Because once you do that enough, then the next time you say something, you know you're gonna do it. And that's powerful.

• 44:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you learn to trust yourself.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  You learn to trust yourself, absolutely.

• 44:16Jay Shetty?

  You're making me feel really bad now because I just, I do six days of no refined sugar a week.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:21Jay Shetty?

  But I eat on one day a week.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  But here's the thing. But here's the thing, some people need that in moderation.

• 44:28Jay Shetty?

  Thanks for making me feel better.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  No, it's true though. It's true though. Everyone's wired differently. Some people need that. And granted, if your career was directly dependent on you not eating sugar, you would make that sacrifice. As an athlete, my career is partially dependent on health and fitness. And so me not eating sugar impacts my career. If it was the same for you, I guarantee you'd be in the same boat. You'd be like, all right, no sugar at all.

• 44:53Jay Shetty?

  I love your mindset though. Like when I hear you speak and it's, it's what you'd expect. You have this elite athlete mindset. I want you to speak to me about that mindset and what it's taken to build that trust in yourself and that commitment to your craft. Because you have it, you're 21 years old. You've already achieved so much. But I can feel it, like even just, you know, being in front of you. You can always tell when you're in front of an elite athlete. It's a different energy. I've had the fortune of sitting with so many. And when you're, when you're in the presence of one, you, you can tell. It's just, it's a different ballgame. It's, it's a fascinating thing to experience. Talk to me about how have you built that mindset? Because you've not only had to build the mindset, you've had to build from a more difficult starting point and then build that mindset on top of it.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  I think it's a combination of a couple of things. I think my disability has always given me a chip on my shoulder. I was always doubted. I was always underestimated everywhere I went. And that fueled me to want to prove people wrong. So growing up, we would be playing basketball games and the coach of the other team would be like, all right, guys, take it easy on this kid for the first five minutes of the game. And then after I've scored a bunch of baskets, he's like, oh, no, no, play defense now. And that's just how it's always been in sport. That always motivated me. Doubt fueled me, fueled me. And then in the same way, I have a very addictive personality. I'm very black and white. I do things 100% or I don't do them at all.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  I feel like I've found my purpose, my calling, which is, I feel like I was put on this earth to change the way we see disability, to normalize disability. And track and field is a part of that. And wanting to use the Paralympics to accomplish that larger vision. And so I feel this deep backing, this, this deep connectivity to what I was put on this earth to do. And you couple that with a love for the sport, a chip on your shoulder, an addictive personality, and I'm all in. And I eat, sleep, and breathe this. I spend all day thinking about it. I dream one day of going down as, as one of the greatest Paralympians of all time. That's, that's my goal.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  I learn as much as I can from the goats, from the Kobe Bryans, from the Djokovitch's, from the Pau Gasols, from the Michael Jordans, the Michael Phelps. I want to take as much of that as possible, apply it in my own way. But that mentality of just being all in, it's kind of the way I've always been. For example, when I was 11 years old, I was Playing a bunch of different sports at the time. And I was on my living room couch and I was watching the Rio 2016 Paralympics. And I had this moment where it was like the universe was telling me, this is your call. I was watching the Paralympics. Once again, the power of representation and I felt, this is what I meant to do with my life. I'm going to be a Paralympian. I dropped all my other sports. I told all my family and friends,

• 47:53Speaker 01

  I'm going to make the Tokyo Paralympics and I was 11. The odds that in four years I go make the games are remarkably low. I wasn't even, I was unranked. I didn't even have a coach, but we built a great team around myself. I sacrificed absolutely everything to make it happen. And there began my track and field career. And so my mentality is always, I might not be the most genetically gifted. I might not be the most talented, but I will out sacrifice and outwork every single one of my competitors. And that's always been my mentality. Probably stems from that chip on my shoulder as a young kid, from that, that addictive personality. But really it's that purpose backed mission that gives me the fuel to get up every morning,

• 48:38Speaker 01

  to sacrifice the sugar, to sacrifice the alcohol, to do whatever it takes to accomplish my goal.

• 48:43Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about that 11 year old you watching the Paralympics, making that decision, I'm going to qualify to qualifying for your first Paralympics. Walk me through the training, what that required and then what that feeling was like to qualify for your first ever Paralympics.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I think I had to improve two feet or something in the high jump. I'd improve it. I calculated roughly.

• 49:06Jay Shetty?

  That's a lot, right?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  That's a lot. Two feet is, two feet is a lot.

• 49:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  I calculated I needed to roughly improve that much. If I wanted even a chance. And I was like, I'm going to do it. And I actually remember this. I looked at my mom and I was like, mom, do you think I can do this? And she was in the doorway. She looked at me. She was like, hell yeah. And I was like, I can do this. And then sure enough, we found a great coach. We started to piece together a team. I, but I mean, I literally, even before you found the coach, I was watching YouTube videos all day, running, jumping in the backyard. I was, I was sitting at my brother's. They had like these water tables. I would like stack water tables in the backyard, jump over them, jump over them. I'm getting up at 6:00 AM before school and doing workouts that I literally watched on YouTube. I didn't even know what I was doing, but I'm going out there and just training and training.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  I begged my parents to take me to the track every day after school, training, training, training. I just went crazy. It was all in. And, and then eventually after a few months of just chaos training, I started to piece together a team and I had a great coach and, and put the, the puzzle pieces together. And then in 2019, which was three years later, I had five track meets to hit the national team standard. And that standard was going to qualify me for junior world championships, the Parapan Am Games and world championships. That was like me getting the opportunity to make the national team. And I didn't get it at the first four track meets. And I, I was capable of clearing this bar.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  And the last track meet was my own competition, my own nonprofit. We had a track meet and all my family and friends were there. It was the last opportunity. And I finally got it and I made the national team for the first time. I was 14. I was the youngest on the team by a lot and it was the best moment ever. And then from that point forward, it looked like making the games was going to be a real possibility. And so that was 2019. We ended up then because the pandemic, the games got pushed back a year. So I even had more time to improve. And then actually qualifying for the Tokyo Games wasn't as satisfying as it should have been because when I got that extra year, I said,

• 51:20Speaker 01

  now if I qualify, I need to medal now. I got an extra year. The goal has to change. I set the bar even higher. So qualifying was, was beautiful, but probably not as satisfying as it should have been because my head was already thinking about the next thing, which is my biggest fault is that I, I never appreciate things because I'm always thinking about the next thing.

• 51:38Jay Shetty?

  Is that a fault or a strength when it comes to what you do?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Up for interpretation. My mother would say it's a fault, but I would say it's a strength.

• 51:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I think as an athlete, it's a strength.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  As an athlete, I'm never satisfied. I can live in gratitude and also really be, because I, I always am trying to be in a place of gratitude, but I can be grateful and also really ambitious and hungry for more always. So you're right. It depends on who you are.

• 52:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. But for the record, I agree with your mom. She's, she's got everything right. So I'm not about to debate with your mom. She's, she's nailed it. So who am I to, who am I to say anything to her? I've been fortunate enough to, to watch certain sports in the Paralympics previously. I've, I've watched you a ton as, as before you come on the show and I'm, I'm blown away by what's possible. Like I, it is like remarkable to watch. But for anyone who doesn't know about the Paralympics, what are the key differences between the Olympics and the Paralympics? And yeah, what are the differences in the, in the competitions, in the athletes? Like what, what are you seeing for someone who may be less, less aware?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Because by the way, people just are naturally confused. I get called an Olympian all the time and they don't mean it in a negative way, but I'm, I'm not, I'm a Paralympian. And so the main differences are this. Paralympics is the highest level sport and competition on the planet for people with physical disabilities. It happens two weeks after the Olympics. It happens in the same cities, same venues, same organizing committees. Granted, the IPC, the International Paralympic Committee and the IOC, International Olympic Committee, they're sister organizations. They're not the exact same. But the sports are very similar. Paralympic sports, or sometimes called adaptive sports, they're adapted in some way. For example, wheelchair basketball.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  It's a game of basketball, but they're just in wheelchairs and you get two pushes and then you have to dribble. Wheelchair tennis, you get two bounces to hit the ball. Track and field, I run with a running blade, but I'm running the 100 meter and high jumping the same. And so the Paralympics is highly competitive. Some people get it confused with Special Olympics. Special Olympics is an amazing organization and they do programming for people with cognitive impairments. So any person with a cognitive impairment could be a Special Olympian. It's not, the Paralympics is highly exclusive and it's for the best athletes on the planet with a physical disability representing their country. And once again, from even from a, a population standpoint, Special Olympics serves 2% to 3% that live with a cognitive impairment.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Paralympics is obviously 15% with the physical disability. But in the Paralympics, there are classifications for each sport. And this is something that people get confused by, but basically it's a system of fairness. The same way in boxing or UFC, you have weight classes. You're not going to have a 145 guy fight a guy that's 205. That'd be so unfair. In the Paralympics, you have that for disability. So you compete against people with the same or similar disability. As in I as an amputee, I'm not going to run against a dude that's just missing his arm. He would destroy me. He has two legs. He would beat me. I only run against people that are also an above the knee amputee.

• 54:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Watching that video of you win, go watch it online, but it's, it's phenomenal to see you like pick up speed. Like talk to us about that idea because I think for those of us who don't understand what it feels like to have a prosthetic leg, you have to pick up speed in a different way.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  You're absolutely right. So with a running blade, the start is the hardest part of the race. Because you're unable to hit the right positions and the blade hasn't really kicked in. And so only at about 30, 40, maybe even 50 meters are you really hitting top speed. That's why the Paralympic times are slower compared to the able-bodied times. But really if you took the top speed of my race versus the top speed of an able-bodied sprinter, it wouldn't be as different compared to like the times that we're running. The times seem way far apart, but the top speeds are closer than people think.

• 55:46Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Of course, still slower because we're missing a leg, but less, less difference. Yeah. In, in the race in Paris, I mean, there's so much to go into just around that. The whole experience in Paris as a whole, but yeah, that, that race was, was crazy. And, and you watch like everyone picks up speed, like everyone, everyone in the races.

• 56:03Jay Shetty?

  You pick up speed. I'm like, you, you pick up speed.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Just a little, a smidge more speed than, than, but it was, it was, it was a crazy race.

• 56:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's insane. We'll get to that. I want to go back to Tokyo. You come out fifth, right? In Tokyo? And you take a picture of the athletes on the podium.

• 56:26Jay Shetty?

  And you make it your phone wallpaper and you're like, never again.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:30Jay Shetty?

  Like, walk me through that decision.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  I'm an ultra competitor.

• 56:33Jay Shetty?

  I love it, dude. I love it.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  So I, see, we got that extra year for the Tokyo Games and in my head, I thought, I can't have the same goal. I got an extra year. I gotta, I have to medal. That was the goal. And honestly, I came into the Tokyo Games in a pretty good position to make that happen. It was definitely possible. Unlikely, but it was possible. And that's all I needed.

• 56:52Jay Shetty?

  You're super young, obviously, as well.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  I was 16. I was super young. All the other guys were 25, older, grown men. This is what they do for a living. I got really close to the podium. The bronze medal bar, I was soaring over the bar and my blade skims the top of the bar. I land on the mat. I jump up. I didn't even feel it. I thought I cleared the bar. I jump up to celebrate and the bar was down and I was just devastated, devastated. Felt like I let my family, my friends, felt like I let my country down. It was, it was painful. But I remember as every other athlete left, it was pouring rain. I stayed on the track and was just walking around and taking these mental pictures because I knew that that moment was going to be pivotal for me in some way.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  And as I looked across, I saw the medalists taking the iconic photo where they hold their flags up. And there's all these photographers and I remember sitting there, looking at them and thinking to myself, never again, never again will I walk away from a major championships without a medal until the day I retire. That was my vow. And I went back to my room and was really going through it at the Paralympic Village. Obviously, the only person that was there was my father. My whole family wasn't able to come because of the pandemic and I was really struggling. I refound a quote, which is the Theodore Roosevelt quote, man in the arena. It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles

• 58:24Speaker 01

  or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, who comes short again and again, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best in the end knows the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. I love that quote.

• 58:55Jay Shetty?

  I love it too.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  I love that quote.

• 58:56Jay Shetty?

  It's so good.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 58:58Jay Shetty?

  It's so good.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Oh, it just took me back.

• 59:00Jay Shetty?

  It just gives you chills every time I hear it.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  His place shall never be. That was the line that hit me. At least if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. And as I read that again, I was thinking, I dared greatly. I'm proud of that. I put my all into this. I left no stone unturned. At least my place isn't with those cold and timid souls who never took a risk, who never put themselves out there, who never went after their dreams. I did. And so I set the lock screen of my phone as that photo that I watched the medalists take with the words, never again. So that every time I opened up my phone, I would see that and I'd be reminded,

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I gotta get this one back. So after a couple of years later, I, I, I won my first world title. And in the media wrote, they're like, are you gonna change your lock screen? Are you gonna change your lock screen now? And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm gonna keep it. And then over the years, every time I've lost, every time I've had moments like that, I've added to it. So now I've got a bunch more photos added to the lock screen and it's gonna be a collage of things that motivate me, moments that motivate me, my failures. I think failure is the ultimate motivator. Nowadays, we open up our phone all the time. I open up my phone every time I see that, I'm reminded of, of these moments that have fueled me to, to become the person I am.

• 1:00:27Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply. That moment when you get up to celebrate, but then realize

• 1:01:10Jay Shetty?

  the pole's down and that your blade had just, talk to me about moments like that as an athlete. Because you've trained for years, months, weeks, and that probably has never happened in training. Or if it happened, happened a couple of times, but you felt really good. And then you get to the real thing and then that happens. Like, talk to me about just that split moment in time where.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  That's what makes it beautiful. That's what makes sport beautiful. That's what makes the Paralympics, the Olympics special is how finite it is. We trained four years. That 100 meter race is 11 seconds. I get one shot. That's what makes those moments so special. I understand the beauty in failure. I understand and appreciate the beauty in those moments that are so scarce and rare. And it makes us appreciate them so much more. And so moving forward from that point, I would always tell myself now when I compete,

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  be present, be here. This is not even for sport. This is in life, an important meeting, an important call. There's moments that are really important to us that we make really big in our heads. And then when we get there, the moment passes us by. And my philosophy is always, I want to be as present as possible in those moments. Cause that's what flow state is. People are like, oh, I've found my flow state. I think flow state is presence. It's being so there. It almost felt like that, that moment passed me by. Like, it just happened and I was a bystander. I'd never want to be a bystander in my own life, especially in moments that matter that much.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  I want to be there. I want to be the one in control. And so now, any track meet, any competition, I'm telling myself, let me be right here. Dancing on Dancing with the Stars, that was literally my mentality these first few weeks is every time I step into the ballroom, let me be here. Let me be present. This is finite. Let me enjoy it.

• 1:03:21Jay Shetty?

  In, in the build up to the Paris Games, you were so focused on self-talk, manifestation, you know, meditation. And we're hearing parts of your self-talk throughout this whole interview. I feel like there's moments where you lock in. I'm like, oh, this is how he talks himself.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:37Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about what role each of those plays. So we'll start, let's start with manifestation. What does manifestation mean to you? How do you manifest?

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Manifestation is really important to me. I think that nobody stumbles upon greatness. You believe you're capable of that thing first and then you become it. My manifestation, once again, it came from that, that confidence building that my parents instilled in me, but I take it really seriously. I, for years and years, in the lead up to the Paris Paralympics, vocalized, I was gonna win the gold. And I had a very, very detailed, and not to jump the gun, but my manifestation meditation are kind of connected. So every morning I would do a in detail meditation visualization

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  where I would walk myself through every single detail of what my competition was gonna look like. I would visualize everything from where the high jump pit would be, the color of the mat, where my family would be in the stands, what time of day, the temperature, the smell, what jersey I'd be wearing, what heights I would come in at, what color jersey my competitors would have, what facial hair they would have, the smallest, most intricate details. And I would live that experience in my head every morning. This was a part of.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Basically getting my body and my nervous system prepared for that moment. And so part of that was the manifestation. I would take myself through the act of winning every morning. I would wake up every morning sobbing because in my head I had just won Paralympic gold. And I did that every morning for years and years and years. Everything that I would do throughout the day, I would tell myself, this is what the Paralympic champion does. I'm the Paralympic champion, getting groceries. This is what the Paralympic champion does. I began to convince myself entirely that I was the Paralympic champion. And what does that person do when they go compete? They win, they go out there and win the gold medal.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  This was a long process. I mean, I said it in every single interview for three to four years, guaranteeing that I was going to win the gold. I personally shook the hands of probably thousands of people and promised them that I was going to win. On social media, I actually did a 100 day countdown where I made a video every single day for a hundred days, saying today is day X out of 100 until I win Paralympic gold. Everyone told me I was crazy. Everybody said, you're putting too much pressure on yourself. Everyone was so concerned, what if he doesn't do it? But there was no fear. I will never not vocalize my goals out of fear of not accomplishing them. I was so open because I was, I knew what I was willing to do to get there

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  and how much I was willing to sacrifice. And I needed to convince myself of it first. And so all that to say, when I walk out on the track at the Paris Paralympics and everything is just as I visualized it, I got deja vu. I had lived that moment in my head so many times that it felt like home. And so granted, did the height that I ended up clearing be a few centimeters higher? Sure, was the high jump mat perfectly in this? No, but the energy, the experience, my senses, my nervous system was not stressed. I was at peace. And the cool thing is anyone listening can apply this to any situation.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  You have a meeting with your boss that you're really worried and stressed about? Take some time and meditate on it, visualize it. Think about the different ways the conversation could go. Visualize your reactions, what you might say, what things might come up. Prepare yourself mentally for it. Oftentimes it's the smallest things that throw us off. We get in a stressful situation or a moment that really matters. And we think, oh my gosh, that's a crazy lamp right there. Oh, this, this, and you're just, you get thrown off by the smallest things. If you mentally prepare for that, it changes the experience.

• 1:07:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. That's one of my favorite explanations of visualization ever. Truly because, because it's a dress rehearsal.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  It's a dress rehearsal.

• 1:07:53Jay Shetty?

  That's what people don't realize. I think we think of visualization as this like really like mystical crazy thing. And it's like, no, no, no, you're letting your body and your mind feel the experience so that when you go into it, you feel comfortable in it.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  It's not foreign.

• 1:08:08Jay Shetty?

  And you're right, it can be used by anyone, even when they're not an athlete. Because it's like doing a dress rehearsal of you walking around on stage, doing that presentation, walking into the meeting at the call, as you said, like you can visualize what that's going to feel like. You can feel the phone in your hand, you can hear that person's voice. You can go through all of that before you step into the arena.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  People underestimate how important that is. They really do. Preparing your body for something is so valuable. Why physically do we prepare our bodies so much for something, but mentally we won't prepare ourselves for something? It's the same thing. There's been studies that they've done where they've taken people and had them practice shooting free throws over a period of time, have one group actually shoot the free throw, have another group just visualize themselves making the free throw. And the difference was not that much. It was a small difference because mental reps are so important. So even after I train, I only have finite amount of time on the track. I can't high jump, run 100 meter all day. I can visualize all day.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  I can be driving my car and in my head, playing the jump over. I can get up in the morning and do an in detail meditation. I can have a moment to myself before a meeting where I take a sec and visualize my high jump. Those are reps. And compared to my competitors who maybe go to the track and then don't think about it the rest of the day. I'm always getting better in my, always thinking about it. It's a competitive advantage for anybody in any area of life.

• 1:09:34Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about the physical aspect too, though, because I've seen your videos of you working out, weightlifting. Like, talk to me about the workout schedule in getting to something like the Paralympic Games in Paris to actually go and compete. And also the recovery, because what can't you do by having a press? Like, is there, is it that you could push yourself too much? Could you get injured? What does that look like for you when you're lifting weights? So what do you have to be careful of and things that we, we may not be as aware of?

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  Training for the Paralympics, specifically the last one, it was all in, everything.

• 1:10:09Jay Shetty?

  What does your schedule look like every week?

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  10 plus hours of sleep every single day, meditation, visualization, journaling, hours and hours on the track, hours in the weight room, deep tissue massage, physical therapy, hyperbaric, red light, sauna, Penthmat. The reality is, track is not a sport like basketball where you can shoot free throws or work on certain aspects of your game for seven hours a day. I can't do that. I would destroy my body. I'm pushing my body to the limits every single rep. And doing that on one leg means I'm putting even more force on my sound side. And I don't want to risk injury. And so we only are on the track for a few hours. But what am I doing the rest of the day to optimize for that? What am I doing in the weight room? What am I doing when I'm getting a massage?

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  What am I doing from a recovery standpoint? We basically, from Tokyo to Paris, elevated everything that we were doing. And it changed the game. I was showing up to the track way fresher, getting 10 to 12 hours of sleep every night without fail, using great recovery modalities, using my Theragun all the time, going in the hyperbaric, using red light, sauna, all of these things to make my time on the track even better and even more valuable. And once again, these are little wins. If I get 1% better every day over a long enough period of time, that's the difference between me and my competitors,

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  which is when people go to work out, it's easy to work out when you're at the track. It's easy to weight lift when you're in the gym and your coach is telling you what to do. But my mentality is I want to optimize my life to make those moments even more valuable. And that's what's going to separate me from my competitors. That's what's going to separate me is what am I doing the other 10 hours throughout the day to still get better?

• 1:12:04Jay Shetty?

  That's crazy. I mean, the strength that leg must have is insane.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Jay Shetty?

  Like walk me through that because I don't think like.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  I've had to overcompensate.

• 1:12:12Jay Shetty?

  Talk to me about what we wouldn't understand. Like, talk to me about what, what we miss. Cause when I see you do it, it looks insanely impressive, but I'm not aware of just how much training, thinking has gone into that moment. Because you've had to think about it much more deeply because of everything from, like you said, you could risk injury and.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Basically I have, I'm 21 years old. I got the leg of probably a 42 year old, just from a sense of the pounding and stress. As in growing up and even still to this day, I'm always going to naturally favor my sound side more. I'm putting asymmetrical load on my body at all times. And so that's means my right leg is definitely stronger. I've got a right, a right thigh that's the size of two, two normal legs. And it's great because I have a lot of strength and that helps me and aids me on the track. But of course I do a lot of work to be as symmetrical as I can. I train my prosthetic side a ton, but my right leg just takes a beating and it will always take more of a beating. And I want to make sure that not only am I healthy for the hopefully 15 plus more years I have still in my career,

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  but I want to be able to play with my kids. I want to be able to be a mobile grandfather who's knowing that I have a lot more mileage I still have to put on my right leg over these years. And so that's why the recovery stuff is so important. That's why the physical therapy is so important. That's why the second I feel anything, we immediately jump on it and make sure we nip it in the bud. Cause I can't have any problems with my, my sound. Like I got one foot, I got one knee, I gotta make sure it's healthy.

• 1:13:43Jay Shetty?

  I love hearing that and it's so helpful hearing that because it just shows how much you value what you have. Like there's such a deep value for your body and value for what it's capable of and value for what you want it to be capable of and the beautiful dreams you have for family and everything else to come in your life. When I see you lift in the gym, like and you'll post, you know, videos online, I'm just like, wow. Like, I'm like blown away by, I'm trying to think about when you first lifted a weight in your life, was that like the most uncomfortable, strange feeling in the world? Like.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  We had to do things differently naturally in, in the way I weight lift, the positions that we can hit. But I, I started training so young.

• 1:14:25Jay Shetty?

  You got used to it.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  I got used to it. And it's crazy because my coaches, the people in my life, they don't even, we think about some adaptations for the prosthetic, but it's so second nature. They don't even think about it. And even now from a dancing perspective, everything we're doing is so foreign. But like my partner, we forget that I'm trying to do this on a prosthetic. And that's sort of beautiful. It's like that we can push the boundaries in a way and that the people close to me don't think about my disability ever. And so when we're in the weight room, it's like, yeah, we take my leg off for certain things, but it's just so seamless at this point. It's like, it's like butter. There's times where I surprise myself. There's times where we do something, I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to, and I'm like, my coach is like, just try it. It's like, oh, I can't do that, right? That happens all the time.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  But yeah, we, we started weightlifting so young and, and there's just something beautiful about getting to push the boundaries. But I do love, I do love weightlifting. It's, it's so fun. And for someone who doesn't see people with disabilities weight lift regularly, like I'm, I don't see lots of other people with disabilities posting weightlifting content or whatever. There is something really cool about the adaptations that we have to make. I just don't think about it ever.

• 1:15:33Jay Shetty?

  It's so cool as a viewer. That's what I'm saying. For me watching, I'm like, that is mind over matter. Like that is an unbelievable mindset that's so inspiring to watch. And, and as, as I'm hearing from you, it is mind over matter. Because you, you're completely like, I can do this, I'm going to try it. And it goes back to what your parents wrote in that letter of like, don't put your limits on him.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Jay Shetty?

  You know, let him, let him be in the pursuit of his limits. Like you're getting to test that.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  That is why people work out. This is why people do hard things. This is why people run marathons or do triathlons or even go on the treadmill for 20 minutes on their lunch break. It's because there is something beautiful about pushing yourself to your limits. Just finding out where that limit is. I'm very grateful that I get to do this for, for a living.

• 1:16:17Jay Shetty?

  What was that feeling like? You'd posted the video, shook the hands, manifested, visualized, and then.

• 1:16:25Jay Shetty?

  Two Paralympic golds. What was that feeling like? What was that experience like?

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  The best feeling in the world, but they felt different. So I was doing that 100 day countdown for the high jump.

• 1:16:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  I had four days of back to back competition. First night, long jump. Next night, 100 meter prelims. Next night, 100 meter final. Next night, high jump final. High jump was last. My goal was to medal in all three of them. First night, I got fifth in the long jump. And I was, I mean, you know me now, I was pissed, but I had three more days of competition. So the next day, 100 meter prelims. I had to basically try to forget the loss that just happened previously. 100 meter prelims went well. Coming into the 100 meter final, I'm ranked seventh. Not projected to medal. And I remember I was feeling really confident and we were in the call room,

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  which is basically a room where all the athletes go to prep before they walk out into the stadium. And the stadium is above us and we can hear the ceiling vibrating from 60,000 screaming fans. And I'm looking around at my competitors and I'm thinking to myself, everyone's really nervous. You can feel the stress and the fear. You know, they say a dog can smell fear. I could literally sense and smell the fear that was in that room. And I was thinking to myself, if I stay relaxed, maybe something can happen. And as I was getting into the blocks, I was really calm, really relaxed. And as I'm getting into the blocks, I'm telling myself, be present.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  This race is going to go by so fast. Let me be right here. And the gun went off. I had the best start of my life. And at about 40 to 50 meters into the race, I'm thinking to myself, like, oh, I'm in this race. And this is weird because it was too fast for this. But my brain was somehow telling myself full sentences. I was saying to myself, full sentences. Stay relaxed. You're in a good position. Stay relaxed. Stroke the arms. You're in it. You're in it. Stay relaxed. I was talking to myself, which is crazy. That was the definition of flow state. When your ability to perceive and process what's going on enhances the experience. It was unbelievable.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  And as I feel the line approaching, I'm thinking to myself, it's going to be a, I can feel it's a close race. I gotta put everything I have into this lean and time it perfectly. And I throw my body into this lean. I cross the line and I just got chills thinking about it. I cross the line and out of my peripheral, I can see one of my teammates who was doing media interviews, watching the race and he's jumping up and going crazy. I had no idea where I was in the race, but I see that and I'm like, oh, did I just, what just happened? If you told me I got seventh, if you told me I got second, I would have had no idea. And we're standing there and we're watching this screen that's taking forever.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Felt like literally a lifetime going dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, waiting for the results. And the camera is on one of my competitors from Denmark and he's looking at the camera and he's going, yeah, ah, and I'm thinking, oh, he must have won. I'm happy with a medal in this event. I came in ranked seventh and it goes dot, dot, dot. And then boom, my name comes up first in the stadium, goes crazy. And I take off and I'm running and I'm screaming. I run to my family, everyone's sobbing. It was just that moment of dot, dot, dot. Boom. I'll never forget that feeling, winning your first Paralympic gold in a surprise way,

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  in an event that I didn't even think I was that good at compared to some of the other guys I was going up against. And it was the best feeling ever. And then sure enough, I have this crazy high. It's the best moment ever. My family and friends and everything's going crazy. My phone's going nuts and in 24 hours, I gotta go compete for the high jump. And that was what I was doing, the 100 day countdown towards. And so I had to, my coach literally told me, he called me, he was like, get back to the village. We're gonna, you're gonna tell me everything about the experience for 20 minutes. And then you're gonna shut up and not talk about it until after tomorrow night. So I get back to the village. I'm like, it was this and it was that. I'm telling stories and I'm showing messages and I'm like, oh, whoa. And then 20 minutes is up. He's like, all right, put the phone on do not disturb. We're done.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  And so I told the staff, I told my teammates, don't bring up that 100 meter for me, please, for the next 24 hours. And I had to remind myself of that feeling of that kid in the Tokyo stadium. Cause this was my opportunity to get that back. And I thought to myself, listen, if I went out there and won the 100 meter and then lost my main event that I did the countdown for, I would never forgive myself. I'd be 60 years old with my grandkids still thinking about that. And so I was like, I gotta make sure that, that, that we deliver. And, and sure enough, by two or three o'clock the next day, I forgot it was gone. And then the feeling after I won the high jump was just relief and joy and just so much gratitude. But it was totally different than the night before, which was just pure shock.

• 1:21:37Jay Shetty?

  Was it the same approach for the high jump? Was it like this, everyone's stressed, I'm relaxed, I'm just in slow? Was it a different approach?

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Everyone gets stressed in these moments, but I was so relaxed. Every time I compete, I'm so relaxed. I don't get nervous before I compete. Once again, product of my mother. She always told me as a young kid, you're not nervous. You're excited. The feelings are the same. Tell yourself it's excitement and the nerves will go away. And I would always tell myself, I'm excited, like I'm pumped for this because it is the same. The heart racing, getting amped up. I'm amped before I compete, but I'm not nervous. And I have lost the sensation of nerves entirely. I don't get nervous for anything in my life now because of that, because of what my mom said. So I wasn't nervous, but loose and enjoying the moment, being present. And, uh, and yeah, very similar, similar mentality for each event.

• 1:22:26Jay Shetty?

  How do you stop yourself in that moment from like the memory of the blade hitting the pole? And like those kind of like movie moments we all almost imagine of like, oh, your life flashes before your eyes. Like, how are you so locked in? What is it? Is it, of course, your mom's advice? Is it music you've listened to before? Is it like, what is it that allows you to not?

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  It's the meditation. Every morning when I meditate, I'm training my mind for what I'm going to experience when I compete. And so naturally in meditation, the first couple of times you try it, other thoughts creep in. And you get better at the skill of removing those thoughts. You're training your brain to focus on something. Nowadays, there's a million distractions. How do you get your brain to slow down and focus on a very specific thing? And so the repetition of that over three, four years, if a thought comes into my brain, I can get it out real quick. And also being able to observe my thoughts. I'm the observer of my thoughts. If a thought comes in, it's not detrimental.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  It's just something I'm observing. And then I have strategies in my brain to help remove that. And the practice of that every morning in meditation just changed the way I was able to operate in these competitive environments.

• 1:23:41Jay Shetty?

  It's so great to hear you explain meditation that simply and beautifully. It's, you're absolutely right though, because you're meditating for so many days and years, you're getting to get the thoughts that are going to trip you up in the finals out early on. And so it's not that you never had that thought. It's that you had that thought so early on. It's just that it doesn't repeat itself because you've practiced not having that thought for so long.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  And the thought doesn't throw you off.

• 1:24:05Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  The thought is a thought and it's a moment. And when I'm competing, it's not like no other thoughts get into my head. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, oh, I love this song. I'm, oh, this is cool. Like I'm having a good time. I'm relaxed, but nothing throws me off. That's the ultimate flow state is letting nothing throw you off your game.

• 1:24:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  That could be in a meeting. That could be when you're doing something really important, whatever you're going after, whatever you're doing. Like if you're in a job interview and you have a thought, great. That thought shouldn't throw you off entirely. Like you can observe that thought and it can go away and you can, like, that's, I don't think the, the process of eliminating thoughts ever is flawless. Like there's always moments where it seeps in and you have moments of doubt and fear. And before the games, of course, there were moments where I'm like questioning myself, thinking, oh my gosh, I had a bad practice and this and that. And that work that I've put in to strengthen my mind to flip it to something positive is a skill,

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  just like running on the track is a skill. And then therefore allows me to, to mitigate those as much as I can.

• 1:25:19Jay Shetty?

  You get the call from Dancing with the Stars. What's the response? What do you say?

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Dancing with the Stars was something that I always dreamt about doing. It was always, it was always in the back of my mind. I've loved the show forever. I've had friends that have been on the show and it felt like it was so connected to my purpose, to step out of my comfort zone and then through dance gets normalized disability. Through dance, hopefully get the opportunity to show people what's possible as an amputee, missing fingers. There's something so poetic about that. And so when I got the calls, yes, a hundred percent. And I couldn't have ever imagined how beautiful this journey would have been so far.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Honestly, I never expected the type of support and love that I've received from the fans. I never would have expected to become literally best friends with my partner Daniela. And this journey has been unbelievably special for me these first few weeks.

• 1:26:20Jay Shetty?

  Tell me about some of the messages you've received from fans and tell me about how it's been impacting the community and, you know, the people that you're doing this for.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm dancing with the backing of. So many people, whether they have a physical disability or they're different in any way, anybody in pursuit of their dreams that is facing any sort of challenges. And so I feel so much love and support. It is so fueling. It is so fueling. I get up every day and feel like I'm dancing with a purpose and that is so special. And getting to see on social media, videos of kids with limb differences, watching me dance. Little girl who is missing fingers on her hand. And her father said to me how much it meant to see my left hand in the shot at the first part of our dance.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  And to see people in wheelchairs and missing limbs and getting to feel like I can help be a small part of that representation for this community that so badly needs it is, is filling my heart, really.

• 1:27:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm sure you're getting so many messages and

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  So many messages.

• 1:27:30Jay Shetty?

  Those videos to see that must be just like so heartwarming.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  It's so beautiful. It's so special. I mean, this is this Lily who I do it for. I saw this video of this really cute kid with a hand difference. And he's jumping on his bed, watching me dance, watching me do a cha-cha, something that doesn't feel serious. I'm dancing, I'm having fun, I'm doing goofy moves. But it is serious because the ripple effect of that is so massive. And I could not be more honored and grateful to be on such a special show. And to get to feel so connected to my purpose. One of my best friends in the world, he's like a brother to me. He texted me a week or so ago, his name's Max, sent me this really sweet message saying how connected to my purpose I am right now.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  And how he feels like I'm literally doing the things that I always dreamt of in a totally different way. I never would have expected that dancing would be such an important part of my mission now, but it has been. And to have one of your best friends in the world remind you of that, it was, it was really special and I feel very connected.

• 1:28:42Jay Shetty?

  And that must be special because they've seen you along the way. They've heard you talk about your dreams.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  He's seen me along the way and he's seen me talk about normalizing disability through the Paralympics. And then now I get to do that in some unique way through, through dance. It's like, oh my, so special.

• 1:28:57Jay Shetty?

  It's amazing. Has anyone cool reached out that you've been like, that you could share that you're like, oh, this, this was a cool moment for you?

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  Amy Purdy has given me a lot of love.

• 1:29:06Jay Shetty?

  She's amazing.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Which was really special. She's fantastic. She was on Dancing with the Stars. She was the first Paralympian to ever be on the show. Her and all of the other people with disabilities have paved the way. And honestly, like the, the support within the Dancing with the Stars ecosystem has been really special.

• 1:29:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, tell me about that. Tell me about the dynamics of the cast.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  It is, the way I describe it is it's like a summer camp. And you go to the summer camp and you become best friends with all of these people. And you know that at some point that experience is going to come to an end, but that makes you appreciate every single moment you have with them so much more. And you know that you're going to be lifelong friends afterwards. Such beautiful people, such a loving environment. And because all of the cast is stepping out of their comfort zone and dancing on national television, it bonds you. I've only known some of these people for a little over a month. I love, I have deep, deep love for these cast members, for the, the community that makes this show possible.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  But even like getting love from, from last year's winner, Robert Irwin and, and getting to meet him and, and getting to feel, feel his energy. And he was saying such sweet things and everyone that has been on the show previously sticks around and, and gives so much love. It is a beautiful, beautiful machine that puts on that show. And how special in a time where we are divided, in a time where attentions are being pulled in a million different directions. I'm honored to be a part of a show that can make people feel good, that can touch the homes of America in a beautiful way and bring people together of all different generations. It's really special. And so once again, just like on the track, I'm trying to appreciate and savor and enjoy every second of this.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  Cause I know this is going to be a time in 10 years' time that I would pay so much money to relive.

• 1:30:58Jay Shetty?

  It's so great. You know that, to be doing so many incredible things with your life and you know it in the moment. Rather than to look back with nostalgia and say, oh, once upon a time I used to do this thing and you know, you have this kind of beautiful vision of it, but to actually get to absorb every positive emotion and every feeling. And I'm sure when you and Daniella are dancing and you're looking at the hosts and the, you know, you're really in the mix. It feels like you can savor that experience in a way that you'll remember it even more than if you just look back on it as a fond memory.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  You're absolutely right. I remember after my first dance, we did a tango, week one. And some, one of the interviewers, they, in the press line after, they were like, do you even remember the dance or did you just blackout? And I said, actually, I remember every step of that dance. I remember every single time my foot touched that floor. Because I was trying to, I was trying to be present. And that makes the experience feel so magical when I, when I even think back about that week one dance. Once again, that's what I'm trying to embody every time I, I step in the, in the ballroom.

• 1:32:01Jay Shetty?

  What does it feel like going from being an expert in what you do, being elite and then starting something totally brand new? You told me you had no background in dance.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  It's crazy. I am not a dancer in any way. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say that now, words are spells, but um, I was not a dancer. I have danced at weddings and loved to dance and was always in the middle of the dance floor, having a good time. But no dance experience. And so not only is that a challenge for us, but then also from a prosthetic standpoint, from a disability standpoint. We are having to reshape the way we do certain movements. And she's having to totally step out of her comfort zone in the way she choreographs each dance and the movements we can do and the things we can't do as well. And so it has been such a challenge, but such a beautiful challenge.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  And I feel like a fish out of water in some ways, but that's kind of beautiful. And I love something that is challenging. I love something that, like we talked about, that allows you to push yourself to your limits. And in this way, I am, I am doing that to a T. I'm learning frame and positions and certain steps and trying to make movements across the dance floor look smooth on a piece of technology that is not designed for fluidity. And there's roadblocks. We fall, we bump knees and her knee is black and blue. We trip, we can't do things right. We spend a lot of time throwing things at the wall, trying to see what sticks.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  But it is so rewarding when you get to deliver a dance and people resonate with it and they feel something. And the support has been out of this world. I thought that the notifications on my phone were crazy after I won gold. It's been even crazier on Dancing with Stars. The amount of people that have reached out has been so, so sweet.

• 1:33:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And you're here to win.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  There's so much that's out of your control on a show like Dancing with Stars. In track, it's black and white. You win, you lose. Here, you don't know how someone's going to feel or respond to your dance. And so my mentality here is I'm going to put my heart into this. I'm going to put my soul into this. I'm going to do absolutely everything I can to work hard, leave no stone unturned. And then we let the cards fall where they fall. But my, my thought is I'm going to wear my heart on my sleeve, dance my heart out on that dance floor. And if we can go far, that would be amazing. But of course, you know, of course, winning would be a dream come true.

• 1:34:38Jay Shetty?

  I'm wishing you all the best.

• 1:34:39Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:34:40Jay Shetty?

  I'm going to start going for you. I'm going to come watch you.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Please come to a show.

• 1:34:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've been rooting for you, but I'm going to come watch you for sure. I'd love to see you live. That would be amazing. You tell me when and where and I'll be there.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  I would love to have you. I would love to have you.

• 1:34:50Jay Shetty?

  As I've been listening to you today, I feel like I've learned so much from you. I've learned about the community. I've learned about Paralympics. I've learned about what it feels like to have a limb deficiency. Like I've learned so much and I feel like you're such a phenomenal spokesperson.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:35:06Jay Shetty?

  For your community, but I imagine that comes with pressure. I imagine that comes with weight. And you wear it so gracefully and you, you wear it so confidently. And I love that for you. And maybe you don't feel it. Maybe just like with sport, you don't feel any pressure because you're like, this is me and this is who I am. I'm, I'm just intrigued as to like, how do you feel? Because you obviously want to show the world what's possible. And then of course, there's a whole community out there of different disabilities and challenges and difficulties.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  I think about this all the time. I will spend my life committed to this cause. And that is, for me, genuinely what I feel like I was put on this earth to do. So there is no negativity in that. There is, there is beauty in that. There is gratitude in that. There is love in that. And that's the, that's the way I see it is sometimes people feel pressure, feel stressed, feel fear, feel expectation. And it feels like it weighs them down. And everything that I feel like I was meant to do and representing a community

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  is motivating to me. It's fueling, it's, it's uplifting. And so actually I see it in the inverse. And what an honor to even feel that kind of expectation. What an honor to even be in the position to represent a community that, that needs it. That's the honor of a lifetime. And so I can see how people would view it as pressure, but.

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  I see it as a beautiful, beautiful thing, actually.

• 1:36:43Jay Shetty?

  I love that answer. And your life's obviously full of advocacy. Can you tell me more about the advocacy work that you're actually doing as well? Of course, whether you're competing on Dancing with the Stars or winning gold in the Paralympics, these are all incredible. But I know before we even started recording, we were talking about some of your work. Can you tell me a bit more about that?

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  It was over a decade ago where when I first started adaptive sports, we were having to travel across the country to find these track meets where I could compete against other people with physical disabilities. And my father was just thinking, why are we traveling halfway across the country to run, jump and throw stuff? You're telling me there's no adaptive sports in Southern California? If you have a physical disability, that's absurd. We have the people, facilities, the weather. It's a sports obsessed city. And so that was the spark. And then my family and I, we founded our nonprofit, Angel City Sports, and we do year round sport programming, equipment, training, competitive opportunities for people with physical disabilities. We know the power of sport, the power of movement, what it does for you physically,

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  psychologically, what it does for the soul. Those same effects are tenfold in someone with a physical disability, especially when they feel like that's not even possible for them. And so we have, over the years, grown this to become one of the bigger adaptive sports organizations in the country, providing year round sports. So many clinics, anyone, any age, any kind of disability can come and be active and try and get connected to the community. And there's power in just being around other people like yourself, especially when you live with a disability. You don't maybe see a lot of people with your same kind of challenges walking around day to day. But then you come to an Angel City event, you see people like yourself, you exchange stories, you try sport, you connect. It's really about the community.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  That is one of the things I'm the most proud of so far is this nonprofit and the lives we've been able to touch and the community we've been able to build. It's, it's very, very important to me. And then, yeah, I feel like this is a special moment that we have leading into 2028 with the Paralympics coming to change the way the world views disability through sport and through the Paralympics. And so leaning in as much as I can to, to make sure we, we maximize that moment. You'll definitely be in the stands in 2028. Would love to have you there.

• 1:39:04Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I'd love to be there.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  And capitalize on that. And hopefully through the Paralympics, through this beautiful opportunity, I call it our golden opportunity, do what we've seen throughout history with the Jackie Robinson, the Billie Jean King, the Nelson Mandela, the, the moment to, to transcend and change society for the better.

• 1:39:24Jay Shetty?

  What's the one thing you want the world to stop believing about people with disabilities?

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  The one thing that I would want the world to stop believing about people with disabilities is that they are any less capable because of their physical attributes. I mean, people with disabilities should not be underestimated. It's a product of society's perception of this thing that is scary and a little bit isolated and it has a stigma. But we are never limited by

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  the amount of limbs that we have or what we have access to physically. And people with disabilities are some of the most creative and innovative in the ways that they're able to adapt, adjust, overcome. Even watching people with disabilities play sports is the coolest thing. Watching these sports that have been adapted, they're so fascinating. I have people who started watching the Paralympics because they were family, friends of mine or something, and then were go down a rabbit hole and become obsessed with these very niche sports because they're just so entertaining. I've always had the philosophy that if you took 100 people who had never seen the Olympics and never seen the Paralympics either, you expose them to both. There's an argument that even seeing people with disabilities play these sports

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  has a crazier and longer lasting impression just because of how foreign it seems. And there's, so there's kind of something really cool about that.

• 1:40:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's, it's mind blowing watching, actually.

• 1:40:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:40:48Jay Shetty?

  It's just, yeah, you're, you are totally taken aback in the best way possible.

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  The best way possible.

• 1:40:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you're in awe.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  And then your perception of disability is changed.

• 1:40:57Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  And so from a macro standpoint, that's how society progresses.

• 1:41:03Jay Shetty?

  For sure. It's, it's definitely where the conversation starts. It's definitely where the conversation shifts. Ezra, it has been so fun talking to you today and getting to know you.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  This flew by.

• 1:41:13Jay Shetty?

  I know. We've been talking like two hours. It is incredible to see what you've done as such a young man and the

• 1:41:21Jay Shetty?

  eloquence and poise with which you talk about the incredible life you live and the impact you want to make. And the fact that you found your purpose so young and are able to express it so spectacularly is, is something I'm in awe of, truly. It's really special, man. And congratulations. And I'm genuinely, genuinely going to be cheering for you all the way, rooting for you in your corner. Excited to see what you go on to do. And we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. So Ezra, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Dream big.

• 1:41:59Jay Shetty?

  Who said that to you?

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  My parents.

• 1:42:01Jay Shetty?

  How has it helped you?

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  I think most people fail, not because they set goals that are too high and fall short of them, but rather because they set goals that are too low. They accomplish those and then in turn just leave a ton of potential on the table because they didn't believe that they were capable of more. And so dreaming big, pursuing it with everything I have is, that's my DNA. And that, that came from my parents.

• 1:42:25Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:42:29Speaker 01

  Be okay being mediocre. There was a basketball coach who never said this verbatim when I was younger, but

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  would definitely doubt me.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  And would always tell me that it's okay to not score a ton of points. It's okay to not play well. You got a disability, man. Like it's okay. And I would always think to myself, like, why would I ever not push myself just because I had a physical disability? If I felt like I was capable of more. And every time I would score baskets, this guy would go, you guys are gonna let the kid with one leg score on you? You're gonna let the disabled kid score on you? He meant it as a compliment, but I remember thinking like, dude, that's so insulting. Like, just because I played basketball my whole life and I have a disability, all of a sudden I, I shouldn't be scoring on my teammates in practice? Like,

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  there was a interesting sense of real ableism from him. And he would always be like, you're, you're good, man. Like, you don't have to keep trying so hard just because, I remember that, just because I'm disabled? I shouldn't try hard to try to be great? I shouldn't try just because I have something that you perceive as a negative? I should get pity points for that? Yeah, screw that. I don't want pity points.

• 1:43:49Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. That's very helpful. It's useful as well. Because like you said earlier, people can be well intentioned or they're trying to give a compliment or the, but it, it's, it's not recognizing what you're actually going through.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Disabled people shouldn't be pitied.

• 1:44:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Someone with a disability shouldn't be pitied or be inspiring just for having a physical disability. They should be inspiring for the person that they are, the things they speak about, what they overcome, what they pursue. It's just this reoccurring trope that like, even growing up, I, I would talk to kids and they'd be like, I'm so sorry. Like, don't feel bad for me. I love my life. I love my disability. I love who I am. You don't have to feel bad for me. My parents would get that all the time. They'd be like, I'm so sorry about Ezra. My parents are like, sorry for what? Because he has a disability? It's not the end of the world. And so people shouldn't, shouldn't pity disability. It's a beautiful part of our society.

• 1:44:43Jay Shetty?

  Question number three. What do you say to yourself when you don't want to get out of bed in the morning?

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  I tell myself that, that there are kids all over the world with physical disabilities who are seen as cursed, seen as less than. I tell myself that there's such a large percentage of the population that needs a voice and needs a spokesperson and needs to feel properly included in society. And if I can play even the smallest role in making that happen, I must commit my absolute life to doing so. That goes beyond sport, beyond dance, beyond speaking. That's the, the ultimate motivator for me.

• 1:45:24Jay Shetty?

  Question number four. If anyone listening is struggling right now, what would you say to them?

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  I would tell them to embrace being uncomfortable as much as possible. Surround themselves with people who deeply care for them and find something that is really meaningful and pursue it. I think most people struggle to find something that is really meaningful to them, struggle to find that sense of purpose. And that can be the thing that pulls you out of even the most dark moments is knowing that you're doing this for a bigger purpose and you were put on this earth for a specific reason. And it's pulled me out of my low points. It's pulled me out of my own head sometimes. Is recognizing why I'm here, what I feel like I was put on this earth to do.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  And it might take some soul searching, it might take a lot of trial and error, but I firmly believe that with enough effort, anyone can find what they were put on this earth for.

• 1:46:23Jay Shetty?

  Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  People with disabilities get equal access to sport opportunities all over the world. That would be the law, that every single sport opportunity that any able bodied person gets, someone with a disability gets the same. That would be, that would be the law. I think that would transform society.

• 1:46:49Jay Shetty?

  Ezra Frech, Dancing with the Stars, Paralympian.

• 1:46:56Speaker 00

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• 1:48:19Jay Shetty?

  Automated list. Truly a pleasure, man. Thank you so much.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  Such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.