#95 Joe McMoneagle - CIA's Project Stargate

Joe McMoneagle is a former U. S. Army Chief Warrant Officer and was among the first Remote Viewers to be recruited into the previously classified Stargate Project. Project Stargate was the United States' first organized research into psychic phenomena via the Defense Intelligence Agency and contractor SRI International. In this episode, McMoneagle takes us back to the early days of the Vietnam War and how he was recruited into intelligence operations. The height of the Cold War fueled appetites for advantages over the United States' enemies and gave way to the CIA's push into "psychic and extra sensory perception" research and military applications. Post his military retirement, McMoneagle authored several books to critical acclaim like "The Stargate Chronicles: Memoirs of a Psychic Spy" and continued his work via his private venture–Intuitive Intelligence Applications, Inc. He now teaches Remote Viewing at The Monroe Institute, a world leader in human consciousness exploration. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://helixsleep.com/srs- USE CODE "HELIXPARTNER20" https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD #goldcopartner https://hvmn.com/shawn https://betterhelp.com/shawn https://moink.box.com/shawn https://mindbloom.com/srs - USE CODE "SRS" Joe McMoneagle Links: Monroe Institute - https://www.monroeinstitute.org/pages/trainer-joe-mcmoneagle Books - https://b.link/b87bbrq3 Download Supporting Documentation from the Episode Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:42Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 0:57Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Every once in a while, I will take a speculative interview where nobody really knows the truth on the subject matter. And when I do that, I always talk about that in the introduction. This interview, however, may be a little bit hard for some of you to believe, but I assure you, there is no speculation. In fact, I've provided a lot of the documentation you'll see presented in the actual episode. And for those of you that still don't believe, do your own research, look this stuff up yourself, and you'll find that it's very real. Remote viewing has been around for a very long time.

• 1:41Shawn Ryan?

  The US was a little bit late to the game on it as the Russians have been utilizing this stuff for several years before we did. I brought on the first remote viewer for the United States. This man is a legend. He called The Hunt for the Red October Submarine. Many of you have seen that movie. He called where the first international space station was going to crash into the earth. He called a lot of things. And we're going to cover all of them on this show. Ironically, I've heard that this man actually remote viewed his own death, which supposedly happens at age 78.

• 2:26Shawn Ryan?

  Coincidentally, this episode was recorded on his 78th birthday. And I addressed that and asked him this question in the episode, you'll see it's at the very end. Ladies and gentlemen, if you get anything out of these episodes, please like, comment, and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Head over to Spotify or Apple Podcast. Leave us a review. That really, really helps the show. Just leave one word in the review. That helps us. And ladies and gents, without further ado, please welcome

• 3:07Shawn Ryan?

  remote viewer number 001 for the United States, Mr. Joe McMonigal. One last thing before we kick this off. There's a lot of talk in this episode about the Monroe Institute. A institute that helps develop and hone in these type of abilities, which offers courses to regular, everyday people like myself. I plan on going, check out their website. I wouldn't be surprised if I see you there. Love you all. Enjoy the show.

• 3:50Shawn Ryan?

  Joe McMonigal, welcome to the show.

• 3:52Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you. Glad to be here, actually.

• 3:54Shawn Ryan?

  I am very glad that you're here as well. I've been looking into you for right around a year now. And Sean Webb has introduced us, a mutual friend of us, and you know, credit to Sean. I've been listening to you for about a year, on and off. And then in the weeks leading up to the interview, your voice has been in my head. I don't know if you're pulling tricks on me or not, but it's been in my head a lot.

• 4:25Shawn Ryan?

  I can't do that. It doesn't work that way.

• 4:27Shawn Ryan?

  And well, Sean has been a...

• 4:31Shawn Ryan?

  A very valuable resource.

• 4:33Speaker 06

  He's a cool guy. I like him a lot. I really do. He's a neat guy.

• 4:38Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Joe. So I want to give you an introduction, and I believe this may be the longest introduction I've ever done. So bear with me here.

• 4:46Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 4:47Shawn Ryan?

  Joe McMonigal, you spent over 12 years as an Army Intelligence Officer in Vietnam and Southeast Asia. You've survived three assassination attempts. Army Intel performed a fake funeral on you. You survived over a decade in a job that has a 20-month life expectancy. After your field service, you were tapped for a highly classified black project connected with the development of the first remote viewing program for the United States Intelligence Service called Grill Flame, later renamed Stargate. You have provided time-sensitive and actionable intelligence for the CIA, the DIA, the NSA,

• 5:28Shawn Ryan?

  the FBI, DEA, NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, NASA, US Special Operations Units, Joint Chief of Staff, the National Security Council, and the White House, among other agencies that we can't even bring up. Your esteemed service in remote viewing for government earned you a Legion of Mariner Award, one of the most prestigious awards in the US Army Intelligence Officer can be given. After your military retirement, you spent decades as a remote viewing consultant for US intelligence, saving dozens of lives, including those of some missing children. You have remote viewed everything from classified submarines to

• 6:10Shawn Ryan?

  hostage situations and even Mars. You've performed numerous successful remote viewings on live television in Japan and the US, and you currently guest teach remote viewing at the Monroe Institute. Many call you a psychic spy, but you are remote viewer number 001 for the United States. Joe, I'm out of breath now. Welcome to the Sean Ryan Show. It is an honor to have you here. So I can't wait to get your life story.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  I just have to, just have to say one thing, and that's the three assassination attempts. You could interpret one of them as an attempt. Um, and that was when I was, uh, uh,

• 7:02Speaker 06

  in Austria, eating dinner with my ex-wife and a close friend. And, uh, got something in my drink that wiped me out. I had no heartbeat, totally got me to a clinic. And, uh, surprised everybody by coming back to life.

• 7:22Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 7:23Speaker 06

  And, uh, as a result, got smuggled out to a rest home in Munich, where they wanted to know how badly my brain was damaged, because I had no heartbeat for so long. So they assumed I had brain damage. That and the fact that I was talking about God's a white light and you can't cease to exist, might have had something to do with it.

• 7:47Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 7:48Speaker 06

  So they let everybody think I was dead. And I think it was just a few years ago, maybe five or six years ago, I met somebody in Lynchburg, Virginia, who came up with, he had a beard. He came up, he said, "Do you recognize me?" And I said, "No." He said, "Oh, I work for you at the detachment, the bordersite detachment. And we all thought you were dead all these years."

• 8:15Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 8:16Speaker 06

  And here you are giving a lecture in Lynchburg. And so that, that kind of is, you could interpret that as an assassination attempt. There's a couple other events that could be seen that way, but only from a certain perspective. I don't think they were assassination attempts. I think they were just plain accidents, where I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

• 8:44Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  That kind of thing.

• 8:46Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we will get to that in your life story, if you don't mind prompting me when appropriate. But, um, Joe, I wanna, I wanna go through your whole life. I would like to document, uh, this is your biography. I want to document your entire life, starting at childhood all the way up to now. But before we get into that, everybody on the show gets a gift. So, little something for you and scooter on the way home.

• 9:16Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 9:17Shawn Ryan?

  From us.

• 9:18Speaker 06

  Oh, very cool.

• 9:21Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 9:21Shawn Ryan?

  Those are not poisoned, I promise.

• 9:23Speaker 06

  No.

• 9:24Shawn Ryan?

  They're just gummy bears.

• 9:25Speaker 06

  Gummy bears.

• 9:26Shawn Ryan?

  That's right. But.

• 9:28Speaker 06

  That's very great. Thank you.

• 9:29Shawn Ryan?

  You're welcome. And something that I did forget to mention in the introduction is you've been married to your beautiful bride for thirty nine years.

• 9:37Speaker 06

  That's correct.

• 9:38Shawn Ryan?

  And that is amazing.

• 9:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:41Shawn Ryan?

  And it's nice to see people with healthy relationships at last because you don't see that very often anymore. And so congratulations.

• 9:48Speaker 06

  I started out rough, but I smoothed out at the end.

• 9:54Shawn Ryan?

  Well, you did damn good. So, but, um, but yeah, let's, um, you know, like I said, I would like to, you know, you had a very extensive career. I know you spent a lot of time in Vietnam, Southeast Asia and Army Intelligence. But I would actually like to start before then in your childhood. So where did you grow up?

• 10:18Speaker 06

  I grew up in Miami, Florida in a, well, I, what we'd be termed not loosely, but in reality is a slum.

• 10:29Speaker 06

  The house we lived in had bars on all the windows and doors. And we had these broomsticks in the corner for the rats that would come out of the sewers and stuff. They were like house cats, that kind of thing. And it was a bad area of town. It was Seventy Ninth Street, about Northwest Second Avenue, which was right next to, I think it was Edison High School. If I'm not mistaken now, but mostly it was refugees from Cuba.

• 11:07Speaker 06

  A lot of poor, poor people, white people, black people, Puerto Rican.

• 11:16Shawn Ryan?

  A melting pot.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  A melting pot of very poor people. And so there was a lot of. Uh, rough gangs there and whatnot, which I adamantly fought not being a member of. And, uh, I remember I would tell them, it's okay to mess with me, but don't mess with my sisters or my mother. And, uh, I was ready to back that up. And they, they learned to leave them alone and pick on me. So I was the, one of the fastest kids in, on the block. What timeframe is this? That's, uh, let's see, nineteen, uh, nineteen fifties. Nineteen fifties?

• 12:00Speaker 06

  Yeah. I was born in nineteen forty-six, so it would be about nineteen fifty-eight on. And, uh, uh, I went to Catholic school, elementary school, which is about a mile and a half away. It's now the cathedral in Miami. Okay. Uh, but it's now in a very poor neighborhood. It wasn't then, but we had to walk out of the poor area to get to the, the church. It was a little wooden church called, uh, Saint Mary's on the little hilltop. And, uh, now it's, you know, all encroached by big buildings and whatnot. And it's a cathedral, you know, all polished and pretty and everything. Yeah. Who were your parents?

• 12:45Speaker 06

  My parent, well, my mother was, uh, my father met my mother when she was wrapping Christmas presents for a department store in Miami. And my father quit school when he was, uh, fourteen. He had polio, so he wore braces on his legs. And his father left his mother and him and his, uh, his other brother when he was fourteen. So he quit school to help bring money in to help his mother. And so he did everything from. Uh, caddying for golf players, which were mostly hoods from New York that would come

• 13:28Speaker 06

  down to Miami, uh, over the winter and play golf and gamble and that sort of thing. Uh, back then you could only get to Miami by train. There was no road that got to Miami. Interesting. Uh, my grandmother came to Miami in a ox cart actually along the shoreline. Are you kidding me? No, they used oxen because they could pull these wagons through the water and the sand and whatnot. And, uh, she had her house built right on the Miami River and it was a perfectly square house, but she lived upstairs and downstairs you could pull these ropes and the plywood siding would come up and make like a extension of a roof around the

• 14:13Speaker 06

  outside. And under there was a big horseshoe shaped bar. And so she served local moonshine and they had music and they would dance under these, uh, live oaks and they had all these old statues and whatnot. And, uh, people would show up in dugout canoes because back then they hunted the bird feathers, uh, hunted birds for the feathers for hats over in Europe, that sort of thing. And so she serviced those people who were the people out of the swamp and whatnot. Interesting. Yeah, it's an interesting story, the background of my dad. Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 06

  Um, but he never had a, really a formal education, but he was a hell of a golfer. He took his braces off, by the way, and threw them in the trash because nobody would give him a job when he wore them. So he walked, uh, his right leg was worse than his left leg. So it was about three inches shorter. Uh, when the war started, he tried to join the army. He spent three weeks in the army and the DI walking along behind the, the soldier standing at, you know, attention, saw his one leg up in the air and he asked him, do you always stay on your toes like that? And he said, only the right leg gets a little shorter.

• 15:44Speaker 06

  So they gave him a dis- they gave him an honorable discharge and threw him out. And all of his buddies were killed in the war. So it really soured him on all that stuff. And he was upset by that, I think, his whole life. But he worked in a warehouse his whole life. And I don't know if people are familiar with people with polio, but walking on the toes are the ball of your feet on one side on a concrete floor your whole life. You develop a callus that goes right to the bone. It's the most, one of the most painful things you can endure. And he never said a word, ever, about it.

• 16:28Speaker 06

  But he drank a lot. When he would come home, he'd go through a six pack or a ten pack of beer every night. And people were really condemning for it, like all the relatives, you know, your dad's nothing but an apothol, like blah, blah, blah. But he really loved his family and he worked his whole life very hard to take care of us.

• 16:51Shawn Ryan?

  Were you close with your parents?

• 16:53Speaker 06

  I was close with my dad, but not my mom. My mom was very controlling. And she usually got controlling when I wanted to do something, like leave after dark to go somewhere. And so she'd scream at me and yell at me and I would just ignore her. And sometimes she'd stop me and slap me across the face and say, pay attention to me. And I'd just laugh or smile at her and she'd keep slapping me. Finally give up and I'd walk out the door and do what I wanted. But I learned in the, in the army, actually, I was thinking about, I had an epiphany, like my seventh year in the army.

• 17:38Speaker 06

  And I realized what she was actually doing was out of fear for her children. She wanted, she was trying to protect us in the areas we were growing up in. And that was her way of doing it. And so I came home and I confronted her with that. And she said, yes, that's all she ever meant to do. And so we had this coming together. And so we became very good friends and very close until her death, which was at a very young age. So she had a heart attack.

• 18:13Speaker 06

  Uh, had to take two buses to get to the hospital. They gave her a bottle of pills and sent her home and she didn't last very long. Same thing happened with my twin sister.

• 18:25Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 18:26Speaker 06

  So, yeah.

• 18:27Shawn Ryan?

  So you're a twin?

• 18:29Speaker 06

  A real gripe with hospitals that just give people pills and send them home.

• 18:35Speaker 06

  No, it's not right.

• 18:35Shawn Ryan?

  Still doing it today, seventy something years later.

• 18:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:39Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, when, when did your sister pass?

• 18:43Speaker 06

  Uh, she passed, uh, I think it was around her, just before her fiftieth birthday. And, uh, she lived in Ocala, Florida at the time. She was also schizophrenic.

• 18:55Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  But she controlled, at the end, she was very well controlled with meds. Was, you know, living her life and it was a good one at the end. But, um, and we were always close. She was, she said I was the only one she ever trusted because I never lied to her. I'd always tell her the truth. She'd call me sometimes. I get a call at three in the morning in Germany.

• 19:24Speaker 06

  Um, standing on the side of the road, it's pouring down rain. I don't know what to do. There's nothing here and I'd say, "H- how did you get there?" Well, I was on a bus. And I said, "Why'd you get off the bus?" This little Abner was looking at me. Yeah, little Abner is a cartoon in the newspaper. And she say, "No, he's not. He was driving the bus." So I had to get off and I go, "Oh, jeez, what do I do?" So I'd say, "Stand on the edge of the road. When somebody comes by, wave like crazy."

• 20:04Speaker 06

  And then I didn't hear from her for six months. The state trooper picked her up, took her to a hospital.

• 20:10Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 20:10Speaker 06

  Where they'd stabilize her and when she was stable, she'd call me on the phone and apologize and everything. But that's the kind of life she led.

• 20:20Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 20:21Speaker 06

  So I worried about her all the time.

• 20:23Shawn Ryan?

  When did that start?

• 20:25Speaker 06

  It started at age fifteen, uh, she got pregnant from a boyfriend or something. And my parents sent her up to Baltimore to live with another aunt. Who kept her there until she birthed the baby. And then he took the child away from her. Gave it away or gave it away to adoption or something. And that was it. That's drove her over the edge, I think. And she hated my mother until she died. You couldn't talk her into any other belief. Man. And, uh, but I had three other sisters and my second oldest sister,

• 21:09Speaker 06

  who was seven years my junior. She, when she was born, I climbed a tree in the backyard and said, I'm not coming down out of the tree until you take her back. I was seven years old. And my mother said, that's not gonna happen. And so I, well, I'm not coming down out of the tree. She said, fine, stay in the tree. And she went inside and closed the door. That night, the mosquitoes drove me out of the tree.

• 21:42Speaker 06

  I snuck in the house and noticed the little bassinet sitting on the kitchen table. And I snuck up on it and looked over the edge and it was my new sister. And, and while I was staring at her, she opened one eye, you know, and started screaming and I went, ah, you know. But it's like a bird, you know, she kinda anchored on me. And everywhere I went, she went. Everything I did, she wanted to see what I was doing. And uh, in her, in her early years at school, I had to walk her to school. Which is okay, as long as I didn't like have ownership.

• 22:28Speaker 06

  Yeah. But as soon as we left the house, she'd say, you gotta hold my hand. And I'd say, I'm not gonna hold your hand. She said, you gotta hold my hand. I can't see. The sun's too bright.

• 22:41Speaker 06

  So I have to hold her hand all the way to school. And when people, people meet her now, they think she's my twin. Because we think alike, talk alike. And everything about her is the same as me almost. And but my other two sisters, uh, my next one in line was Beth.

• 23:02Speaker 06

  Elizabeth and Beth's gentle like a, like a deer. I remember her whole time as a child, she would walk around in the rooms on her tiptoes. I think she was my dad's favorite. And she was trying to emulate him. Cause he's walking on tiptoes on his right foot. Oh, yeah. So she always walked on tiptoes. Interesting. And she was very quiet. She was an observer. She'd come into a room and just observe. And then my baby sister Kathy was the one that was a real terrorist.

• 23:43Speaker 06

  She got it in, she got into it all the time at school.

• 23:48Speaker 06

  She got in a fight over a basketball or something with some boy. And I think he was eight, eight or nine at the time. And he pushed her down on the basketball court and she broke her, broke her arm. So she was in a cast. And uh, she came to me and she said, how do I deal with this? And I said, just tell him you wanna, tell him a secret, but he's gotta come close, cause you're gonna whisper. And when he comes up close, you just put the cast. And that afternoon, I got to talk to a cop.

• 24:26Speaker 06

  Brought her to the house and said, did you tell your sister to do this? And I said, oh, yeah, I did.

• 24:35Speaker 06

  Almost went to jail for it.

• 24:38Speaker 06

  But uh, my other sisters told me that she was, oh, she was wild child.

• 24:46Speaker 06

  Her whole life. She died from a brain tumor at thirty-five or thirty-six.

• 24:53Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 24:54Speaker 06

  Yeah. So I lost my twin sister and my baby sister.

• 24:57Shawn Ryan?

  I'm sorry.

• 24:58Speaker 06

  The two in between are now retired master, senior master sergeants in the Air Force.

• 25:04Shawn Ryan?

  Are you kidding me? Are they, were they in the intelligence service as well?

• 25:08Speaker 06

  No.

• 25:08Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 25:09Speaker 06

  They, uh, supported a, an active fighter squadron up in, uh, Portland, Oregon their whole time they were in.

• 25:16Shawn Ryan?

  Enter.

• 25:17Speaker 06

  Yeah. That's where they both lived. Uh, one lived across the river in Washington State, and my other sister lived in Portland. So they worked at that active, uh, fighter squadron their whole time in the service.

• 25:32Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, good.

• 25:33Speaker 06

  And, uh, one was a secretary to the commander, I think. Kind of a secretary or, you know, a person who supported him. And my other sister was, her, she's very proud of her MOS because it's one of the few combat MOS's the Air Force has. It's where they parachute in some, a team, and they set up all the electronic requirements for a landing strip.

• 26:00Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  So when they acquire a landing strip in a combat zone, and it's got no support, they go in and support the fighters they bring in, and the bombers and things like that, until they can bring in a regular crew. And, uh, they tried to push her out of that MOS a couple of times when she got more rank. And she fought them to the, to the end.

• 26:25Shawn Ryan?

  Very cool. Joe, I've read, I don't remember if I've read or heard or watched or listened, but I remember hearing somewhere that something in your childhood kind of shaped, uh, or maybe developed you for, for the career that you were going to dive into. Can you, can you talk about that at all?

• 26:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, I I had to get out of Miami. Um. I'm I'm really a a bug about racial things.

• 27:00Speaker 06

  I I grew up with, you know, people with no money, people who grew up hard, just like I did. And many of them were white, many of them were black, many of them were Hispanic. Uh, some of them were foreign, uh, in in the way they're treated is not right.

• 27:23Speaker 06

  And my mother and I were walking through a place called, um, have to bear with me. I'm trying to remember some things here. I think it's called Grendel's Park. I think that was what it was called, Grendel's Park, which is downtown Miami, right across from all the big buildings and stuff. And it was a park where you could just walk through and whatnot. I remember meeting Roy Rogers there and, uh, what was the other? The guy with the white stallion, oh, uh, had the silver bullets, long ranger. He actually gave me one of his silver bullets. Oh, man.

• 28:05Speaker 06

  It turned turned out to be a blank, but it was it was silver plated.

• 28:12Speaker 06

  Anyway, I'm walking through there with my mother and it was hot and I was thirsty and I saw a water fountain. And I went up and started drinking out of it. My mother grabbed me and pulled me away from it. She said, don't use that fountain, it's colored only.

• 28:28Speaker 06

  And I said, why? And she said, I can't explain it, but you shouldn't drink out of those water fountains.

• 28:38Speaker 06

  Next time I went and saw my doctor. Uh, my mother took me to my doctor. Uh, I think I was maybe twelve or thirteen at the time. He read me the riot act about using those water fountains and said all these diseases. He just read off this huge list of diseases I could get drinking out of a colored water fountain. And I told him, I said, that doesn't make any sense to me at all. That's nuts.

• 29:09Speaker 06

  And he got angry and my mother got angry and I said, I gotta get out of this place. This isn't right. And I, I don't think that changed up until the day I left when I was eighteen. Soon as I turned eighteen, I went downtown. Vietnam was starting to build up and nobody was enlisting. Mm hmm. Voluntarily. Everybody was trying to avoid the draft or if they got the draft, they wanted a really high number, that kind of stuff.

• 29:40Speaker 06

  But when I graduated from high school, I and my group of buddies, maybe four of us, went downtown and went to the, uh, the place where they had the, uh,

• 29:52Speaker 06

  all the recruiting sites. And we went around to each one, you know, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. And I think we even visited the Coast Guard. And, uh, I went back to the Army. Uh, uh, when I first walked into the Army recruiting office, they said, uh, they looked at me, they looked at my high school record and because we had these folders, you know, had all our information in it. And they said, get out of here. We don't want to talk to you. You're too smart for the Army. And I said, what are you talking about? He says, we're bullet launchers and we're bullet catchers. That's all we do. Go find somebody else. And he there, he threw me out.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 31:06Speaker 07

  Bonjour, compadre. It's the.

• 31:10Speaker 07

  How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget. The Priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals. All of those deals in a bundle. Deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses, there's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood, vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfronts. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me off.

• 31:38Speaker 06

  So I went around the other places and it became apparent to me they were lying. Every single one of those recruiters were lying. The Air Force, you have a private room. You know, you get to travel all over the world. You know, typical BS they do to rope you in. And so my buddies got hooked by the Navy, mostly. They all joined the Navy, but I didn't know that because I went back to the Army place. And I walked in and he says, why are you back here? I said, you're the only guy that's not lying to me.

• 32:15Speaker 06

  So I joined the Army. What did you know? Met my buddies, they had joined the Navy.

• 32:23Shawn Ryan?

  What did you join the army to do?

• 32:25Speaker 06

  I actually joined the army because I felt like if I was gonna serve the country, that was the place to be. I just felt like they were guys who were taking up the mission versus kinda dragging their feet going in. These guys were like the guys that they would go with. I just felt like they were serious about it. And that's the message this guy was delivering.

• 32:57Speaker 06

  And so we talked and he asked me why and I wanted to join the army. I said, "I wanna, I wanna fly fixed wing."

• 33:06Speaker 06

  He said, "Do you know the difference?" And I said, "Yeah, I know I don't wanna fly helicopter." He said, "Why not?" And I said, "I heard it's a bag of rocks." "I can't fly anymore." And he says, "You're right, it's a bag of rocks." So he says, "We don't have a lot of fixed wing pilots, but you're smart enough for it." So he said, "I would advise you to get tested before you join." So I went back and actually I committed to it. I went back and I got tested and they opened arms, you know, "Come on in." So I, I did all the tests and scored fairly high.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  Because by then I was in a private boys' school, paid for by a Monsignor at the cathedral. So my whole high school education was very good with Jesuits and whatnot. So

• 34:05Speaker 06

  the, the army took me in, promised me fixed wing. And then I got to my basic training. I took the basic training. And when they started to ship me off to the fixed wing school, they said, "There's some basic requirements you have to meet." And I couldn't meet the depth perception test. I was three inches off at 25 feet.

• 34:33Speaker 06

  And they said, you don't, you're, you have a stigma, stigmatization or something in your vision, which doesn't permit you to get a good depth perception. So you can't fly fixed wing. Hmm. You can't fly anything. So find something else. So I went through a brochure of MOSs and came up with the idea that I wanted to do this thing called, it was called a Sidewinder back then. It was a track mounted 106 recoilless rifle. It had six recoilless rifle barrels on it. And it was track mounted. And it was very quick, like 50 miles an hour. And I

• 35:18Speaker 06

  thought, yeah, that's it. Strike and run.

• 35:24Speaker 06

  I was thinking, boy, if you're fast, they can't get you. Um, so I went to AIT for that and finished my AIT. And then when I, they gave assignments to everybody in the class, everybody was off to Vietnam, Philippines, all these different places. And you, Joe, go sit in the barracks because we don't know what we're gonna do with you yet. So I'm sitting in the barracks and somebody came in from the orderly room and said, they've just, I've obsoleted your weapons group. The army's doing away with it. So you have

• 36:07Speaker 06

  to find another MOS. So I don't know what the heck I want to do. So I went out on the base and I'm, this is at Columbia, South Carolina. So I'm walking around on the base during training hours. Can't find any MOS that I want to do. So I'm at the PX Beer Hall at two in the afternoon. So it's empty. And I'm sitting in there drinking a beer and a civilian guy came in and sat way across the place from me. I said, what are you sitting way over there? Why don't you come sit over here and we can talk. So he came over and

• 36:49Speaker 06

  he asked me what I was doing and I told him. And he said, um,

• 36:55Speaker 06

  I might be able to help you. He said, come by and see me tomorrow. And he gave me his card. And all his card had on it was phone number. So I called him the next day and he gave me directions and he was in a trailer. So I visited him at his trailer in Columbia, South Carolina, on the base. And when I went in, he introduced himself, gave me his name and everything. And he said, I think I can help you pick an MOS. And I said, how do we do that? Do I look through a brochure? No, and he handed me a dart. I said, what's this for? And he pulled his curtain back and it was a big dart, a standard dartboard on the wall.

• 37:39Speaker 06

  But it had little numbers written in all the little places. And he said, you throw the dart, you hit a number, we look it up and it tells you your MOS. So I threw the dart and it hit on one of the black lines that separated things. And I said, what does that mean? Do I get to throw the dart again? And he said, no, that's, believe it or not, is an MOS. And I said, what is it? And he said, I can't tell you. I said, what do you mean, you can't tell me? He said, well, this is a recruitment for intelligence. And I said, what's that? I had no idea.

• 38:21Speaker 06

  And so he said, I can't explain it to you because you don't have a clearance. And I said, well, how am I supposed to do an MOS that I don't have a clearance for? He said, well, we do background and everything once you volunteered. And I said, okay, I'll volunteer. And he said, you don't have enough commitment time. I had only committed for four years. So you gotta have six years commitment because the school was over a year. Year and a half.

• 38:53Speaker 06

  So I said, okay, what do I do? He said, well, we have some papers for that. And he had me sign my discharge from the four year commitment and sign a recruitment for a six year commit. And then he told me that my MOS, he gave me the numbers, it was O five D ten. And I said, what does that mean? He said, I can't tell you, you have to go to school for it. And we're going to send you up to Fort Devens, Massachusetts. So I went to Fort Devens. And I, the first school I was in was a hundred and twenty people. And we all had headsets on and we were all learning Morse code.

• 39:38Speaker 06

  So I learned Morse code. And you had to pass, I think it was eighteen words per minute, sending and receiving to graduate. I couldn't get past ten. And I mean, that went on and on. I was getting like within ten days of graduation, I couldn't pass ten. So I snuck out through a hole in the fence and went to this hotel and got absolutely wasted on beer. Cause I was, you know, almost twenty one, so. Anyway, I came back in just in time for school the next day. And people couldn't stand next to me, I smelled so bad. And he came up to me and he said, you're not typing anything.

• 40:21Speaker 06

  And I said, uh, not into it today. And he's doing one of these, and he says, where have you been all night? I said, I might've had a few beers. He said, well, full, uh, full with this a little while. If you don't pass it today, you're out. And so I passed twelve, fifteen, eighteen, and twenty, almost twenty-two. Wow. In four hours. With a hangover. With a hang, I mean, I was still drunk. So I graduated third in the class.

• 41:01Speaker 06

  Top three guys didn't go anywhere. We went to the next school. Everybody else block allocated Southeast Asia. So the next class, we had twenty-one or twenty-two people in it. And it was for everything but the morse code. Every kind of radio operation in the world. Russian radios, Chinese radios, Czech radios, German radios, American radios. Small radios, big radios, burst transmission type radios. All that kind of stuff. I graduated first in that class. I and the number two guy went to a third class.

• 41:45Speaker 06

  The rest block allocated Southeast Asia. The third class I went to was me and him. Two guys that were not wearing uniforms. And another guy who was wearing a uniform I'd never seen before. And we're like seven of us in this class. I graduated first in that class. And that basically was six months in the snow. I never saw a warm building, a warm room, a warm tent. I mean, living in the snow, literally.

• 42:23Speaker 06

  And then I got sent into, uh, uh, Boston for a two-week test. My job was to go into Boston. Seek out someone who I thought might be an instigator, uh, anti-war demonstrator, whoever. And file reports on them. So I, I saw this woman who was looked to be part Chinese. And she was definitely a rabble-rouser. So I started writing, writing her up and sending reports in. Uh, every other day basis. And after about two and a half weeks, I got a telephone call. He said, "Come back into the base.

• 43:08Speaker 06

  Uh, we want to go over some things with you." And it was a Saturday. I thought that was kind of unusual. So I went in on Saturday. When I walked in the office, she was sitting on the, at this couch. The woman you were surveilling? Yeah. And she'd been surveilling me. So we had picked up on each other and were writing reports on one another. And so we both passed.

• 43:31Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. Wow.

• 43:35Speaker 06

  So then everybody got assignments but me. So I'm sitting around for a week waiting for an assignment.

• 43:44Speaker 06

  And they came in one day and they said, go into Fitchburg, Massachusetts. Here's three hundred bucks. Go into Fitchburg and buy some of these clothes.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  So I went to this men's store in Fitchburg and bought a suit and, you know, typical load of clothes.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  And I came back and they took all my uniforms away and everything. And I waited another week. And then they came and got me and took me to an airbase. Put me on a C one thirty and I had to sign for an entire pallet load of classified material. Cause they had given me my clearances by then.

• 44:28Speaker 06

  So we made, I don't know, six or seven stops and I was signing off the stuff that people were taking off this pallet. And when it got down to just a few objects, we landed and they said, get off with this stuff. And I got off and the plane left and I was sitting on this little runway. And on the right side was the Atlantic Ocean and on the left side was this light blue, like Mediterranean color.

• 44:59Speaker 06

  And I could see both at the same time because the place I was sitting was maybe three hundred meters across. And I was sitting on a log and I said, where am I? No idea.

• 45:14Speaker 06

  Nobody would tell me. And this baby blue Jeep pulled up and a guy got out of the Jeep with black shorts, white t-shirt, flip flops. And he came over and he said, my name's Sal Carrato. I'm a warrant officer and I'm your boss. Get in. I said, where the hell are we? Says you're on a luther on the Bahamas. So my first tour was eighteen months on a luther on the Bahamas. This is an out island. It's a thin hundred and sixteen mile island. It's only half a mile wide at any given point. And uh.

• 45:57Speaker 06

  Our cover was air sea rescue.

• 46:01Speaker 06

  Half the unit couldn't swim.

• 46:06Speaker 06

  Now, I was a Red Cross. Uh lifeguard, so I worked at the Eden Rock on Miami Beach for a few months. So I taught him how to swim. I taught the guys with kids and a wife how to swim. Taught everybody that didn't know how to swim, how to swim. And I was became the like the major swimmer and diver because.

• 46:33Speaker 06

  That was our cover. But sometimes a boat would run aground or something. We had to like go out and save people that come stuff. Actually. Actually live. Actually play out your cover. So. I I can't tell you what we did there. It's still classified, but. But I was there just a year. It was considered a hardship tour. Most of the guys brought their wife and kids over. Um, I was the only one who extended six months. So I'm from Miami. I is a round trip twenty seven dollar ticket on a jet, whispered jet to Miami.

• 47:15Speaker 06

  Eighteen minute flight.

• 47:18Speaker 06

  So I was having a good time. Good. And uh, met my first wife that way in Miami.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  That was a mistake.

• 47:30Speaker 06

  Because my next tour was Germany. Your next tour is Germany. Was Vietnam. Okay. And uh.

• 47:38Speaker 06

  That was rough.

• 47:39Shawn Ryan?

  What was the job satisfaction like in the Bahamas?

• 47:42Speaker 06

  In the Bahamas?

• 47:43Shawn Ryan?

  Were you excited? Was it an exciting project?

• 47:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, the mission was exciting. But the mission was like every third week or maybe not. Or sometimes that kind of thing.

• 48:00Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 48:02Speaker 06

  I met a guy, the most exciting part of it was I met a hit guy out of. He was a Haitian refugee. His name was Maurice. He was a French Haitian. And.

• 48:18Speaker 06

  He was a good friend of the, what they call the voodoo mama of the island. She was an old lady with one leg. They all lived in the Keys, which was a slum area. You walked on boards from one little islet to the next. And they lived in. Basically shacks built from driftwood, that kind of thing. They were avoided by everybody. Hey, I grew up that way. Didn't bother me at all. I'd go visit her and take her a big brown bag full of bologna sandwiches, which she loved because she had no teeth.

• 48:55Speaker 06

  Um, I took care of her. We had a. Class five hurricane that hit the island. And we were supposed to, I and my, we worked in pairs, so I and my partner. Were supposed to. Evacuate some equipment when the airspeed got up of a certain height. So we're watching this anemometer.

• 49:22Speaker 06

  And suddenly the anemometer jumped.

• 49:25Speaker 06

  To like a hundred miles an hour or better. So we started jerking this classified equipment out, putting it in a jeep. In black bags and we watched the plane as we were loading the jeep. We watched the plane take off and just fly off to Florida. So he says, well, what do we do? And I should put it back in.

• 49:49Speaker 06

  The trailer, transfer everything to this van that we had. And get the loading chains that they delivered it with. And we pounded two foot stakes into the coral and chained it down on all four corners.

• 50:05Speaker 06

  And Ashley went into the hut and as we were shutting the door, two wild dogs came in with us. They were, they were probably the smartest animals on the planet. They came running in. So we shut the door and wrapped it with one inch strap and welded it shut. So I'd been in a lot of hurricanes in my life in Miami. I'll bet. And I knew that this, this was gonna be a bad one because it was already a class four and it was coming up from Cuba. And it actually hit the island, came up the island and stood a half, half a mile away at the edge of the eye. For twenty-three hours or something.

• 50:50Speaker 06

  And you almost couldn't think inside this van because the gravel and sand hitting the wall of the metal van was excruciatingly loud. And the two wild dogs wouldn't let us touch them, but they really loved the food we gave them. And when we got two feet of water in the van, I started thinking, we're in trouble. But it never got higher than that. We slept up on equipment racks with blankets and the dogs went up there with us. Climbed on up, just climbed right on up.

• 51:26Speaker 06

  And when it was all over, we came out. Everything was gone. Everything. Completely destroyed. The jeeps, the generators, the wires, the antennas, everything gone. And uh,

• 51:44Speaker 06

  but we had survived it. So I got, I got an immediate, well. I got chastised for not following orders and being at the airport. That cost me a fifty dollar fine, which I couldn't afford back then. My income is an E four, by then I was an E four specialist four. It was seventy two dollars a month, I think.

• 52:08Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 52:09Speaker 06

  And I got fined seventy bucks and I was like, ah, that's gonna hurt. I can't even get a haircut with that.

• 52:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 06

  And then, and then I came out, I was pissed. And my boss said, now turn around and go right back in. And I said, why? He said, just turn around, go right back in. So I went back in.

• 52:30Speaker 06

  And the guy smiled at me. I saluted and reported a second time. And he said, now I'm gonna promote you to buck sergeant. And congratulate you on a job you did really well. So I got the, one of the first.

• 52:46Speaker 06

  Mox Meritorious Unit citations. Or.

• 52:51Speaker 06

  Meritorious unit. Uh, not unit. It was a meritorious medal.

• 52:56Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 52:58Speaker 06

  It was above our com.

• 52:59Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 53:01Speaker 06

  So, and then later I got promoted to E six. So the guy that was training me became my junior. That worked for me.

• 53:10Shawn Ryan?

  No kidding?

• 53:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. And so I extended six months. And so I went straight from there. To Vietnam. That was my second tour.

• 53:24Shawn Ryan?

  How was?

• 53:26Shawn Ryan?

  How did you receive the information that you were going to Vietnam? I mean, I'm, I'm.

• 53:31Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 53:31Shawn Ryan?

  Was, it was well into the war by this point, if you had joined at eighteen.

• 53:35Speaker 06

  A story in itself. I got sent from the island back to Homestead, Florida. That, at the big airbase there, we had an army unit. And the army unit was working with the Navy. Uh, there.

• 53:51Speaker 06

  And so I became an instructor for the Navy.

• 53:56Speaker 06

  Teaching them. How to work a piece of equipment that they never seen before. And it irritated them, that an army guy. Could walk into their area.

• 54:10Speaker 06

  At total clearance to be behind their black.

• 54:15Speaker 06

  You know, law.

• 54:19Speaker 06

  Well, I did the best job I could. And I noticed every time the block allocation came out for Southeast Asia, my name was on it, right at the top. It had a line through it with the Colonel's initials. So after the third occasion, I went by to see the Colonel. And I said, I'm here on a social visit. I said, I need to know why you keep lining me out and initialing it. He said, well, I've had long conversations with your ex-boss, and we've greased the scales for your going to officer candidate school.

• 55:01Speaker 06

  And I said, no, sir, that's not gonna happen. And he said, who talked you out of it? And I said, me. I said, I'm not going. He said, why not? And I said, because I will go when I want to go, not when you want me to go. And I will earn it. I'm not gonna have anybody grease anything for me. And I walked out. And the next block allocation came out. Red line and initials again. Someone went back to see him, and I said, I thought we had this discussion. And he said, yeah. He said, but Southeast Asia is not in your future.

• 55:45Speaker 06

  And I said, it should be. I'm due, overdue. And I said, why are you doing this? It turned out, and he's very open with me. His son died at age 18 from leukemia, or something like that. And I looked almost identical to his dead son. And he had taken it, taken me on as somebody to protect.

• 56:13Speaker 06

  And I said, don't do this. I will not receive this well. The next block allocation, Southeast Asia. That's how I got to Vietnam.

• 56:25Shawn Ryan?

  So you wanted to go?

• 56:27Speaker 06

  I wanted to go, yeah. That was in.

• 56:31Speaker 06

  That was part of being in the military for me. That was like. That's where it all is. It's a war. That's where they send people in the army. You know? That, and I felt, I felt. I was well-trained. I knew what I was doing. Why not?

• 56:53Speaker 06

  Didn't make any sense to me that somebody was keeping me out of it. It just, it angered me in a sense.

• 57:00Shawn Ryan?

  Were there, were there a lot of people at that time that actually wanted to go to the war?

• 57:04Speaker 06

  No, no.

• 57:04Shawn Ryan?

  Nowadays, we don't, we don't hear that.

• 57:07Speaker 06

  No, there was huge demonstrations starting to build. For resentment about it. Nobody wanted to be drafted. Nobody wanted to volunteer. It was a bad war. Nobody wanted to be in it. It was growing. This was, uh, let's see. Sixty, beginning of sixty-seven.

• 57:31Speaker 06

  And so. No, it was not a good thing.

• 57:36Speaker 06

  But I felt. I felt like it, it's denial. It's like stupid. You got, if you're in the army and you're a volunteer, that's what you do. You go where the war is. You go where the fight is. You go where you're needed. And so, I went to Vietnam. And funny thing happened when I got to Vietnam and I walked in my first orderly room.

• 58:01Speaker 06

  That, I had these orders in a packet that said, not to be diverted by anybody. No matter what their rank. Uh, by order of some general somewhere. The first thing they tried to do was defer me.

• 58:17Speaker 06

  Divert me to a Colonel who came in with a Jeep and a five ton and was looking for twenty five warm bodies. And he had blood on him and I said, I'm not going where he's going. Obviously, he's not very good at what he does. So I, I, I just walked away from him. And went to the tent of the guy who was running the repo demo. And just walked into his tent, laid in his cot, took a nap. My orders said not to be diverted, so I took it seriously.

• 58:54Speaker 06

  So I finally got my orders to go up to, uh, the three thirtieth radar recon in Plaquedale area, Central Islands. And so when I got up there and I walked in the orderly room, they said, oh, you're already in E six. And I said, oh, yeah. He handed me another E six stripe. And I said, what's this? He said, well, that's the blood stripe we were gonna give you when you walked in. You know what a blood stripe is?

• 59:27Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 59:28Speaker 06

  That back then it meant the guy you were replacing was killed.

• 59:32Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, shit.

• 59:33Speaker 06

  So you got his rank to take over. And I said, I don't know anything about what he was doing. And he said, well, nevertheless, you're in charge of it. And so when I met the first guys I met, I said, I'm not in charge of you guys, you're in charge of me, because I've not been here before. So until I'm comfortable, I'll do everybody else's job. But the black guy who's been here the longest, you're in charge. So that's how I did it.

• 1:00:07Shawn Ryan?

  And so what was your, what was your mission?

• 1:00:12Speaker 06

  My mission in Vietnam was manifold. One was predominantly, um, running out stations, what we call out stations for direction pointing. We had some five or six HF, high frequency direction pointing stations.

• 1:00:32Speaker 06

  And they were out of the way. They might have six, possibly upwards of eight men assigned to them. But they were huge bunkers in the center of an antenna field that would do direction finding. And getting from the outside of the antenna field to the inside of one of those bunkers usually required somebody coming out and meeting you and saying, step where I step.

• 1:01:04Speaker 06

  Because there was no other defense. They had swing rack twin fifties on top of the bunker and big searchlights and a lot of booby traps, a lot of mines and stuff. And generally speaking, the enemy usually left it alone. But when they decided they wanted to take one out, it was Katie bar the door, that kind of thing. Lot of support fire, which is predominantly what the bunker was for, because it was always danger close stuff. But nevertheless, that's what I did is I managed those things, those sites and things like that. And we had a

• 1:01:48Speaker 06

  thing called an INPRD one at the time. I don't know if you are familiar with that. I am not. An ARP PRD one was basically a radio with a rotational antenna on top that does direction finding in the HF area. It's, at the time, it was the most modern stuff they had at the end of the Second World War. Okay. So that piece of equipment weighed sixty eight pounds. It was considered manpackable. Oh, man. So you could dismantle it and manpack it. This was back in the hard days. Problem was, it had batteries. The frickin' batteries weighed sixty pounds a piece.

• 1:02:33Speaker 06

  So it was like crazy. So the best we could do is we would hard mount it in a Jeep. And the Jeep that I went to the mess, the motor pool and selected a Jeep.

• 1:02:48Speaker 06

  And I told the the motor pool sergeant, I said, you got any V eights laying around?

• 1:02:56Speaker 06

  I had a B eight put in my Jeep.

• 1:02:59Speaker 06

  I had the uh the windshield taken off. I had a cutter bar put up in the front, welded in the front. Two layers of sandbags laid in it.

• 1:03:11Speaker 06

  It was the fastest frickin Jeep on the planet. And you know, this is something I never understood. You're in a combat area. You're in a heavily fortified combat area. So they dropped the speed limit to twenty five miles an hour. Because of all the troops walking around. Bullshit. I'm not, I'm not going down at twenty five miles an hour. IEDs are set at twenty five miles an hour. I'd blow through there at seventy and they'd be going off, you know, half a mile behind me. Or if my driver happened to hit a piece of cardboard in the road, I usually beat him senseless with my helmet.

• 1:03:53Speaker 06

  It was like, no, no, seventy miles an hour is comfortable.

• 1:03:59Speaker 06

  And they, and they have these things where they stop everybody to form up a convoy. Where they can mount uh heavy mortar teams and a truck in the front and a truck in the back and you know, all this protection for a convoy. And what do they do? They, the bottom of the mountain pass. Going up the other side, they hit the lead truck, the tail truck, blast the bridge out of condition. And then rake it as long as they can before cover arrives. And cover's not very efficient in the mountains anyway.

• 1:04:38Speaker 06

  So, no, we'd come up for these convoys and I'd pull out my special pass as an intelligence guy and I'd say, move those barricades. We blow through there. I figured they're never gonna open up on us with just a single jeep.

• 1:04:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 06

  They're waiting for that convoy. And so we'd be going down the road to, I don't know, to the coast, out of the mountains, out on K to the coast and we'd go by areas where you could see them setting up their mortar emplacements and their heavy gun emplacements, their Russian heavy machine guns and stuff.

• 1:05:19Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:05:20Speaker 06

  We just blow through.

• 1:05:21Shawn Ryan?

  Is it a single jeep?

• 1:05:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, single jeep. We might draw some ground fire, but they couldn't hit us.

• 1:05:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 06

  That kind of stuff.

• 1:05:30Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of intelligence ops were you running?

• 1:05:35Speaker 06

  Wanted to find the headquarters for most of these units, like the 144th, the 145th North Vietnamese Division or whatever they call it. I can't remember now. Usually the larger units, the headquarters units, we're looking for their prime headquarters.

• 1:05:54Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:55Speaker 06

  And if we could locate that by locating the antenna first, their prime broadcast antenna, then once we located that, then we could go into the area and suss out where some of their main units were. And then once we had built a schematic of how they were laid out, we could call in, you know.

• 1:06:18Shawn Ryan?

  Okay. So you guys were kind of triangulating on

• 1:06:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, on the antennas.

• 1:06:23Shawn Ryan?

  Enemy HQs.

• 1:06:25Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:06:25Shawn Ryan?

  And then ordering a strike.

• 1:06:28Speaker 06

  Uh, sometimes we got smaller units that were operating in the area that were doing a lot of damage.

• 1:06:33Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:34Speaker 06

  They would bring us in on that.

• 1:06:37Speaker 06

  I remember one, and we took a lot of photographs too sometimes when we saw things that were obviously enemy active things. So this is almost maybe, I mean, along the lines of what NSA is doing? Yeah, basically, but way up front. Yeah. And, and when I first got there, we lived in a, in the base camp, we lived in a hole in the ground. It was actually a hole dug in the ground for a GP medium. And there were six guys in the hole, living together.

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  And so we just had the tent top spread out with a trench dug around it. And we had ammo crates for floor. So when it got wet and mucky in the bottom, we could walk around on the ammo crates. And it was dry. And we had a couple tent poles in the center. And so we were sleeping right up against the dugout wall. And we could sandbag our sleeping cots. It was really warm, comfortable, dry. We'd get a rat in there every now and then, but we found us a dog, call him Big Red. I, excuse me, Buck Sergeant Red. And we turned him into an alcoholic.

• 1:08:00Speaker 06

  He got to liking beer so much, the most, the worst beer in the world, uh, Blue Ribbon. Pabst Blue Ribbon. Pabst Blue Ribbon. In the steel cans, it rusted. But we give him a beer for any wrath that he brought us dead. He turned into such an alcoholic.

• 1:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  We'll work for beer.

• 1:08:29Speaker 06

  Every morning, we'd throw the tent flap back and he'd be like this. Pause, pause. Sound asleep by the entry, two dead rats laid in front of him. Two paps blue ribbon, beers for breakfast. Then he was happy.

• 1:08:47Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome.

• 1:08:48Speaker 06

  And you'd see him around the unit, sitting with his ears like this. Staring at a rat hole.

• 1:08:57Speaker 06

  Not moving like stone statue dog. That rat stick his nose out. He'd have him.

• 1:09:06Speaker 06

  One more beer.

• 1:09:08Shawn Ryan?

  I read that you were in a helo crash in Vietnam.

• 1:09:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, you could call it a crash. It was more or less like blown out of the sky.

• 1:09:19Speaker 06

  We, we were, I hitched a ride coming back to Pleiku.

• 1:09:25Speaker 06

  I didn't want to take a, a vehicle ride for some reason. It was just quicker. I want to get back to Pleiku city. So I hitched a ride on a helicopter and I had, I had my rucksack. I had all my equipment with me. And so I was riding in this helicopter and in Vietnam, the heat was so bad that helicopters back then with the smaller engines just couldn't lift off.

• 1:09:54Speaker 06

  They had to take a, like a, an aircraft takeoff. They had to move in ground effect like an airplane. Once they get above a certain height, like only four or 500 feet, they could operate like a helicopter because the air got heavier.

• 1:10:12Speaker 06

  And so landing was the same problem. So we were coming into Pleiku to land. So we're cruising along the outside edge of the runway to where the helicopter parking pad was. And they waved us off because they had a big cargo plane coming in.

• 1:10:30Speaker 06

  So we moved over to the trees and went to about a hundred feet over the trees. Not above the trees. It's like around a hundred, a hundred and 20 feet total. But we were over the tops of the trees and the air was cooler.

• 1:10:47Speaker 06

  So I was sitting on the side of the helicopter with my feet on the skid. And uh.

• 1:10:55Speaker 06

  I'm pretty sure we got hit with an RPG right in the belly because there was this white fireball. That's all I remembered. And I woke up on the ground. And I had fallen through trees, I guess ricocheting off of limbs or something. But when I landed, I landed in this flat sitting position.

• 1:11:19Speaker 06

  Um, so I was sitting on the ground like this with my rucksack still on. But my rifle was laying way out here somewhere. I think I was still carrying a rifle in, but.

• 1:11:32Speaker 06

  So I reached, went to reach for it. And passed out from the pain. Cause the impact had jammed my spine. It uh multi fractured my spine to some degree. And I was in a lot of pain. So I was, was eventually able to. It was right at dusk when this happened. So I was able to roll over because I was hearing things in the bushes. I didn't like.

• 1:12:04Speaker 06

  And all I had was my, I had a knife and I found a really good fist sized rock.

• 1:12:10Speaker 06

  So I crawled up into some bushes and just laid there, you know, in the fetal position.

• 1:12:17Speaker 06

  Hoping if somebody found me. I wouldn't have to get into it. And uh. I was out there all night like that. And then the next day. They came in to recover the wreckage, I guess for parts or something. And they found a number of us still alive.

• 1:12:37Shawn Ryan?

  There was, so you weren't the only survivor?

• 1:12:39Speaker 06

  The only survivor, just about everybody survived. There might've been one dead or.

• 1:12:45Speaker 06

  Somebody that died later, I don't know. I just know when I got to the MASH unit, I was one of the fewer damaged people. I just had a spine compression. That's what they call it. So they put me in traction. They actually put metal pins in my skull and hook wire, sandbags, and so I was like taut over this, this uh cot for, oh god, they had me there for like two weeks in traction. And I started feeling pretty good. And then they had a bunch of people come in wounded and they said, sorry,

• 1:13:29Speaker 06

  we're gonna take you out of traction. We think you're gonna be okay. They took me out of traction. I stood up and almost passed out because of the recompression of standing up. And uh, they gave me a couple shots. And they handed me a big bottle of Percocets. I remember it was like this big around about this tall. And they said, you're gonna be alright. Take these. Go back to your unit and walk it off. Trick or treat. Trick or treat. So I went back to the unit and that's what I did. I walked it off. It was a lot of pain, but it started easing the more Percocets I took. Yeah. The better it got and

• 1:14:14Speaker 06

  we even had some speed that we could some speed that we would take sometimes, which caused some problems because then you couldn't get something to go to sleep with. So we all started drinking Jack Daniels and throwing the cap away, that kind of thing. Chasing the dragon. Which yeah, which I really paid for when I got out of the army. That's all, much later story, but um.

• 1:14:49Speaker 06

  I just learned to deal with it.

• 1:14:53Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of guys in Vietnam saw some weird things in the jungle.

• 1:14:59Speaker 06

  You didn't have to be in the jungle to see weird things.

• 1:15:02Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:15:03Speaker 06

  My, my first week there, I saw probably one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life.

• 1:15:09Speaker 06

  I was in a, a three quarter ton sitting up front.

• 1:15:15Speaker 06

  We pulled up to an intersection of a main road. And the three quarter was right behind a,

• 1:15:26Speaker 06

  what do they call it, a Lalo truck or a, I can't remember what they call them now.

• 1:15:30Shawn Ryan?

  Some type of an indigenous vehicle?

• 1:15:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was like a motorcycle with seats in the back for up to six people.

• 1:15:37Shawn Ryan?

  Like a tuk tuk or something?

• 1:15:38Speaker 06

  Tuk tuk, yeah. But that's what they call them, tuk tuk. And it was a woman and a small boy in the back and the driver revving his engine. And it was a convoy of trucks going through and the convoy were all little boys with tanks on them. And APCs and, you know, heavy equipment. And they're raw, they're blowing through this intersection, one behind the other. And sometimes it was a break. But the convoy kept going and this guy got a break. He, I guess he thought he could make it. And he gunned the engine and he popped the clutch and he got out in the middle and it stalled.

• 1:16:22Speaker 06

  Bang, the next convoy truck hit him hard. Spun him around in the back wheel so the trailer went over him.

• 1:16:33Speaker 06

  And then every truck behind that, bang, bang. Every single one of them hit that tuk tuk and started pounding it down inside.

• 1:16:47Speaker 06

  To the point you cannot see the difference between the metal and the bodies. It was just like a big spongy mess in the middle of the road. No stop, nobody, the convoy just kept going through there. And I've always thought, so they just didn't show up at home? Nobody could have known who they were. Yeah. You know, but nobody stopped, nobody gave a shit. They just. Like it was nothing. Abang, that was nothing.

• 1:17:26Speaker 06

  And I can't, I can't get that out of my head. That, that was my introduction to Southeast Asia. That and little kids, innocent kids. I, since then, it's kind of interesting. I probably wouldn't do a thing for an adult in trouble. I just, yeah, okay. But kids and dogs or cats, innocent animals, innocent children are what hurts. That's what drives me crazy.

• 1:18:05Speaker 06

  So if I see a child being mistreated or something, it takes a lot of willpower to walk away. Mm hmm. Without pounding somebody into the pavement. Yeah. You know, I just can't, I can't deal with that. But grown adults, I don't give a shit. You asked for it, you earned it, you know? Yeah. You're that stupid, well. Yeah. That's life. I, I've always felt that way ever since, ever since my military career. I, and it's a, it's probably unfair, it's probably.

• 1:18:48Speaker 06

  Bad thinking. I don't know.

• 1:18:50Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, don't you think that that maybe kind of mindset develops as you experience war and see, see the lengths that humans will go to, to

• 1:19:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Shawn Ryan?

  to, to get what they want, prove a point, egos get involved in, in

• 1:19:10Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:11Shawn Ryan?

  You know, in, in, and, but, but even just the war, you know, great, like traveling around the world. And I mean, you'd had some, I don't know what you were doing in the Bahamas, but, you know, the Bahamas, Vietnam, I mean, you, you

• 1:19:25Speaker 06

  I've been all over the world.

• 1:19:26Shawn Ryan?

  Start to see humanity for what it is.

• 1:19:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think so. But I gotta tell you that the average human being walking on the street has no control over what the governments do. It's the politicians to start wars.

• 1:19:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:43Speaker 06

  It's the military have to finish them, clean them up, end them, however you want to look at it.

• 1:19:48Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:51Speaker 06

  Uh, I had, I had a dinner with, oh, probably five, five generals and the rest were colonels, Russian generals and colonels. And of course, they're heavy into the vodka and whatnot. There's a reason for that, by the way. They drink three vodkas, whoever got up and left the room were spies. KGB, FSB, internal security.

• 1:20:18Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:19Speaker 06

  If they have a third drink, they can't testify in court. So they get up and leave when the third drink's poured. And, uh, after they leave, there's one thing's yet interesting. Because they all agreed, it's politicians that destroy a country from the inside out. It's never the people that are willing to die for the country. It's politicians. And they dislike politicians almost as much as I do.

• 1:20:53Shawn Ryan?

  Glad you brought that up.

• 1:20:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, I really do. I just like the idea that somebody can just arbitrarily start a war based on some stupid policies without sitting down and talking about it or talking it out. It's corrupt.

• 1:21:12Speaker 06

  Because the people they represent shouldn't be

• 1:21:17Speaker 06

  set up for that or subjected to that without to say so.

• 1:21:25Speaker 06

  And I understand government has to do certain things, government has to set certain policies, all that kind of crap.

• 1:21:34Speaker 06

  But it's usually for the good of the big companies, economy, money, power. And it degrades into worse stuff.

• 1:21:46Shawn Ryan?

  You know, it took me a long time to come to that conclusion and realization and.

• 1:21:55Speaker 06

  It's hard, it's hard to get there.

• 1:21:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Speaker 06

  It really is because your idealism gets in the way. You want to believe it's better than that. You want to believe that people are smarter than that, that people are more aware of what the hell is going on. Most people aren't aware, they don't want to be aware. It's like inconvenient. It affects their decision making at work. It affects their decision making with regard to their family, their income. Everything goes to security, secure first, then deal with those issues. But you never get to those issues.

• 1:22:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:39Speaker 06

  It's always too much else that goes on.

• 1:22:44Shawn Ryan?

  Did you, when did you come to that conclusion, Joe?

• 1:22:46Speaker 06

  I came to that conclusion.

• 1:22:50Speaker 06

  When I got into this special project.

• 1:22:53Shawn Ryan?

  So after, after Vietnam?

• 1:22:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, oh, well, yeah, a long time after Vietnam. I spent better than seven years in Europe.

• 1:23:05Speaker 06

  And spent fourteen months in Thailand, up in Nuremberg, which was basically the CIA headquarters for the operations in Laos and Cambodia. And I lived in the village of Nguangkai for off and on for quite a few months, which is where all the operatives lived, going in and out of the Intend and other places in up country. So I met a lot of the, uh, the indigenous folks who were smugglers and gunrunners and drug sellers and that sort of thing.

• 1:23:48Shawn Ryan?

  Did you have an experience with some type of a medicine man over there?

• 1:23:55Speaker 06

  Uh, I'm trying to think. I had an experience with a really bad doctor. Oh, wait a minute. No, I had an experience with a medicine man. Um, actually, I didn't have that experience. Let me back up. I had a, I had an event that happened when I was living in Nguangkai. I lived in a hut that was off the ground in Nguangkai. It was probably five hundred years old, this hut.

• 1:24:36Speaker 06

  It was fifteen, maybe seventeen feet off the ground. You went up and down through a ladder, a center hole in the hut. And when you got up at night, you pulled the ladder up, shut the trap door and put a pin through it. So that was security. Below you, uh, there was a walkway to the ladder, but inside that wired in area under the hut is where you kept the pigs. Pigs are a great alarm. You wake a pig up in the middle of the night, they start going crazy. So they make great alarms. So everybody keeps pigs under their hut.

• 1:25:19Speaker 06

  And uh, so I slept on a pad that was on the floor and I had a little candle hugely lit. And I had a beam that went across my head, maybe just high above my head. So I sat up too quick and hit the beam. But on this side of the beam where my head would hit were two pins and I had a combat shotgun. Laying up there with a alternating solid slug triple X. That was my go to weapon if something happened in the middle of the night.

• 1:26:01Speaker 06

  And this one night, well, I had an open balcony and had, you wanted a window, you just cut a window with a chainsaw. The bugs weren't bad because I had uh, lizards hanging off the ceiling that would run over and suck up the, the bugs flying in. Anyway, it was a nice place to sleep and live and uh, I had a cook and a maid and a gardener and a gardener, I don't know what else. And it was like seventy bucks a month. So, uh, I was sleeping there.

• 1:26:43Speaker 06

  You know, you come awake sometimes and you know there's somebody in the room with you. But your eyes are shut and it's something wakes you up. It's probably some very tiny noise, it doesn't fit or something. But I became consciously awake and aware, something was in the room with me. And I was laying with my eyes shut. So, I had this whole thing in my head. I'm gonna roll to the right. Taking the gun with me and I'm gonna bring it to my chest. And rack around as I roll over the candle to put the light out. And whatever's standing in the room, if it's standing in the room.

• 1:27:28Speaker 06

  I'm gonna hit it with a solid slug first. And that's what I did and everything worked like clockwork.

• 1:27:37Speaker 06

  And it was this figure of a human standing at the foot of the pad on the other side of the trap door.

• 1:27:46Speaker 06

  Which was still locked and pinned, by the way.

• 1:27:50Speaker 06

  Pigs are not that sound, nothing. And so I hit this thing square in the chest, I mean, right here. With a solid slug and it slammed it against the wall. It dropped to one knee and then stood up again and I went, in my head, I was thinking. Shit, what kind of body armor is that?

• 1:28:13Speaker 06

  So I shot it again with a triple X and it almost dropped to a knee and then stood back up again and then took off for the balcony. And I think I hit it a third time as it was going over the balcony. And I'm a pretty good shot.

• 1:28:31Speaker 06

  I went to the balcony and looked over expecting to see a body laying there. It was up on its feet, heading for the jungle already. And I was, all I could think of was, I want the armor.

• 1:28:46Speaker 06

  I couldn't think, what the hell was that?

• 1:28:50Speaker 06

  And then I talked to the village chief about it.

• 1:28:55Speaker 06

  He gave it a name, I can't remember what he called it, but he said it was like an assassin. That people could.

• 1:29:04Speaker 06

  Take a plate of food or something into this place, a special place in the jungle. Put a name on top and lay the plate of food out there. And this thing would read the message and lock that person down and assassinate. I thought. Nice story. But I couldn't find any trails or anything, so I couldn't do anything about it. So that was in nineteen seventy-two.

• 1:29:33Shawn Ryan?

  Was there, remember, was there any remnants of anything inside the hut?

• 1:29:36Speaker 06

  Absolutely nothing.

• 1:29:38Shawn Ryan?

  Just shells?

• 1:29:39Speaker 06

  Just empty shell casings. No holes in the wall. Nothing. So, you know, I could understand. Some flattened rounds or something from it, you know. Triple X is just basically ten thirty round ball peens. That had to do something.

• 1:30:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Speaker 06

  But it didn't. And whatever this armor is, it was taking it in. And holding it in some way. So it was probably soft, some kind of soft armor. I don't know. But.

• 1:30:18Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:30:19Speaker 06

  I didn't know what to do with that. So. That was seventy-two. Flash forward. To. Probably ten years ago now. At the Monroe Institute. Where I teach remote viewing and whatnot. I met a guy there at one of my talks. He was attending a gateway program. And he was a cryptozoologist. From. He said he was doing work for the Smithsonian at the time. I don't know if that was the same time he was in Thailand or not, but. He was a cryptozoologist. They hunt for animals that have never been seen before.

• 1:31:01Speaker 06

  Or bugs or stuff like that that no one's ever seen.

• 1:31:07Speaker 06

  And he was telling me about this little deer that walked out of the jungles in Vietnam at the end of the war. No one had ever seen one. It was the size of a dog, little bitty thing. And it had horns that came out of its snout and went up its face around the eyes. And it came over like two hooks. And it based, that was their nose. They actually breathed through that while they were eating watercress because the water would always be up to here. So they breathed through these horns while they ate watercress. That's what their favorite food evidently. No one had ever seen one before. No one had ever

• 1:31:48Speaker 06

  eaten one or skinned it or anything. There was no evidence that had ever been seen before by anybody. And they walked out of the jungle at the end of the war. And I was like, how does something do that? Go through the whole war of Vietnam and survive? You know, it's like with all the arc lights and the bombing and the shelling and wow. And he was telling me about that. He said, but that wasn't the most unusual thing that happened. I said, what was that? He said, well, we were way up in up country Thailand. Um, I think he

• 1:32:29Speaker 06

  said it was like due west of, uh, Udon. And he said, we were in, we were under the protection of a paramilitary police force out of Thai Thailand. And they would set up a camp and they had these tents that they were walled tents they would set up and they had two cots in the tent. And so wherever they set up to do a scouring of the jungle for these animals and bugs and things, they would put up three rolls of consecutio wire and search lights and all that kind of stuff and provide protection because there are a lot of bandits up there and whatnot.

• 1:33:14Speaker 06

  And he said, I was awakened one night by my partner in the bed next to me, in the cot next to me. And he said, when I looked over, there was this human figure on top of him, strangling him, and he was choking. So he said, I can't remember what caliber pistol he said he had, but he, he reached in his boot, pulled his pistol out, and shot this figure in the side twice. And it rolled off onto the floor and got up and ran out of the tent. And by then, all the, the lights came on, and all the guards fired some rounds

• 1:33:54Speaker 06

  in the air. And this thing shot across the area and went over the three rolls of concertina and vanished into the jungle.

• 1:34:06Speaker 06

  They couldn't say anything about it, but his friend had ripped out big chunks of hair in both hands, which they put together and put in an envelope, mailed it back to the whoever, whatever lamp they use. So, the next morning, they found a blood trail. So they followed it. And he said it went for a few kilometers, and it popped into a village. And they went to the village head, head man, and talked to him, and he said, no, nobody was shot in the village that he was aware of. But his medicine man was sick. So they

• 1:34:47Speaker 06

  said, can we talk to your medicine man? And they said, sure. So they went and talked to the medicine man. And the medicine man was really ill. He was laying in the bed. And he had two bullet holes in the side. But he was in his eighties. He was in his eighties? Eighties, not a hair on his body.

• 1:35:13Speaker 06

  I don't know what to make of that. He doesn't know what to make of that. But then that's when I told him about my experience in seventy-two. So.

• 1:35:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, you gotta wonder about that stuff. I, I don't. I can't attest anything other than the fact, I know I hit it three times, or twice anyway. And it didn't even slow it down. And he shot it twice in the side and the medicine man had two bullet holes in him. So.

• 1:35:50Shawn Ryan?

  So that was, that was in nineteen seventy-one?

• 1:35:53Speaker 06

  Seventy-two for me. With him, it was like ten years ago when he related this to me and he'd just come back.

• 1:36:01Shawn Ryan?

  So this is fifty-two years ago?

• 1:36:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:04Shawn Ryan?

  Fifty-two years, you still have no answers?

• 1:36:08Speaker 06

  No answers.

• 1:36:09Shawn Ryan?

  Wouldn't, I mean, that's, that's the kind of thing that will, that would haunt me for the rest of my life, would, I mean.

• 1:36:16Speaker 06

  I wanna go back there and see if we could find it.

• 1:36:20Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think that may have been?

• 1:36:25Speaker 06

  I don't know. I, I, I think it's a mixture of things. I think it's somebody who fulfilled the worst nightmares of people dressed in a body armor suit that could take the rounds, maybe. When he was younger, could take the rounds better. Then when he's older, maybe put the suit on wrong or it didn't have good side protection. Because most body armor doesn't have good side protection.

• 1:37:00Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:37:00Speaker 06

  It has good front, good back protection, but no lateral protection. So if you're gonna get, if you're gonna, like President Reagan, he, when he was hit, was a ricochet off the door frame or something, caught him in the side.

• 1:37:18Speaker 06

  You know he's wearing body armor under his jacket or his coat. So I think it's a combination of that. Maybe covering it with some kind of hair off another real animal or something. Cause the, the report he claims they got back was uh, dog hair, no specific species. So if they couldn't isolate the species, then it could have been off a number of different animals. You know, all mixed together, that kind of thing. So I, I think it's a, a local.

• 1:37:59Speaker 06

  Who knows?

• 1:38:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:01Speaker 06

  You know, I just don't know, but I think it'd be interesting to go, go back there and find.

• 1:38:06Shawn Ryan?

  Definitely be interesting. But even, even an eighty, an eighty-two year old.

• 1:38:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, couldn't have jumped three.

• 1:38:13Shawn Ryan?

  Villager.

• 1:38:14Speaker 06

  Well.

• 1:38:16Speaker 06

  If he was in really good shape and was taking drugs, maybe.

• 1:38:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Even today's body armor to take a slug.

• 1:38:24Speaker 06

  Well, no.

• 1:38:25Shawn Ryan?

  You know, I mean.

• 1:38:26Speaker 06

  No. He, he'd have to be nineteen years old, physically better fit than I was.

• 1:38:34Speaker 06

  And the armor had to be impeccably good. I mean, just like nobody's business. I, I'd always, back in my memory was always thinking, God, it'd be great to have a piece of that armor.

• 1:38:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:48Speaker 06

  See how it's made or how it's constructed.

• 1:38:54Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:38:55Speaker 06

  I have a retired Colonel friend who came up with an idea of using spider wire, which was the new fishing line. And a new weaving concept to make body armor lighter and more efficient. He worked on that his whole career as part-time. He came up with some pretty good ideas in terms of the weaving methodology. Because it would tighten up as it was hit, you know? And, but the weave was very tight. It wouldn't come apart if some of the strands got broken. That sort of thing. He had some good ideas there. I don't know what happened to him, but.

• 1:39:36Speaker 06

  He, he really had some good ideas, but anyway, that's digressing.

• 1:39:42Speaker 06

  I just, I've always wanted to like go back.

• 1:39:47Shawn Ryan?

  I would want to go back to.

• 1:39:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:39:49Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe I wouldn't, I don't know.

• 1:39:51Speaker 06

  What the hell that was.

• 1:39:52Shawn Ryan?

  But, um.

• 1:39:53Speaker 06

  It scared the bejesus out of me when it happened. And, uh, I didn't feel particularly quick about wanting to run off in the jungle after that thing.

• 1:40:03Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet, I'll bet.

• 1:40:05Speaker 06

  I'd be shooting for the ankles, baby.

• 1:40:09Speaker 06

  Or a headshot, one or the other.

• 1:40:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:11Speaker 06

  Uh, triple X for the head and solid slug for the ankles. I don't know.

• 1:40:16Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, that is, uh.

• 1:40:18Speaker 06

  I don't even know what I'd do.

• 1:40:21Shawn Ryan?

  That's something.

• 1:40:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:40:22Shawn Ryan?

  I would love to know. How many, have you heard of other people besides you and the other gentleman?

• 1:40:28Speaker 06

  The one guy and me, I, I never expected to hear it again from anybody. But when the guy told me he was a cryptozoologist and was in that area and then said, oh, this really weird thing happened. He told me about it. I was like.

• 1:40:43Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:40:44Speaker 06

  There it is.

• 1:40:46Shawn Ryan?

  When, when was your, when was your first?

• 1:40:53Shawn Ryan?

  When did you get poisoned?

• 1:40:55Speaker 08

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• 1:41:11Shawn Ryan?

  Was that in this timeframe?

• 1:41:13Speaker 06

  Uh, no, that was, uh.

• 1:41:18Speaker 06

  Uh, let me think a minute.

• 1:41:22Speaker 06

  That was, uh, after Thailand.

• 1:41:26Speaker 06

  That was, no, I'm sorry. It's before Thailand. It was my, towards the end of my first tour in Germany. Uh, tour being three years.

• 1:41:39Speaker 06

  And I was working in, well, I can't talk about what I was working in, but I could meet my wife every now and then. So a friend of mine brought her to the restaurant where we met, which was in Brunnau, Amzey, which was across the old river in Austria. Really nice restaurant. Brunnau is the same city that Hitler was born in. Born over a butcher's shop. Go figure, you know. So, but this was a great restaurant. So I asked him to stick

• 1:42:20Speaker 06

  around, have dinner with us, since he had brought her and driven so far. We were probably 200 kilometers from where the unit was that I was assigned to. So we ordered dinner and we had before dinner drinks. And all I did was take a couple sips of my drink and started feeling really bad. And I didn't want to be, I felt like I was gonna start barfing any minute. And I didn't want to do that in a restaurant. So I headed for the front door. And when I got to the front door, I remember hitting it with my hand. It was a glass swinging

• 1:43:02Speaker 06

  door. The door swung open and there was like a pop, actually like a snap, like you snap your fingers. And I was standing on a cobblestone street and it was a warm rain and it was falling. But I didn't feel like I was getting wet. So I went like this and noticed the rain was going through my hands. And I said, oh, now that's strange. And when I looked up, I saw this body half in and half out of this door.

• 1:43:41Speaker 06

  But I wasn't making that connection right away. So I uh kinda drifted over, which should have been a giveaway, but I wasn't paying attention to that. I was paying attention to the body. And I saw it was me laying on the concrete. At the entry. And then the guy that brought my wife to the restaurant came out and grabbed me and pulled me up into his lap. He dropped to the pavement, pulled me up in his lap. And felt for a pulse somewhere in my neck, I guess. And uh then he started yelling at me. Breathe sucker.

• 1:44:25Speaker 06

  And he smacked me in the chest. Cause we didn't have CPR back then, nobody was trained in any of that stuff. And every time he hit me in the chest, I'd be back in my body looking up at him. In this incredibly intense pain. And I'd be saying to him, I like stop. I was trying to get the words out and I couldn't get them out and I'd be standing outside my body looking down again. And he hit me in the chest and I'd be back in my body in this excruciating pain. And I go, please, and I'd be out of my body looking down again.

• 1:45:06Speaker 06

  And I guess my wish came true because I stayed out then, I just watched. And he kept hitting me on the chest, nothing was working. And then uh he disappeared. And my ex-wife was down on her knees and she was crying. And then this Volkswagen pulled up. And I think that's what he had brought her to the dinner in.

• 1:45:35Speaker 06

  So he jerked me up off the ground. He's my generator mechanic, so he's really a big guy. And he just jerked me up off the ground. Threw me over his shoulder and threw me in the backseat of the Volkswagen. And I'm standing outside watching all this. And then they took off and I was like, whoa.

• 1:46:01Speaker 06

  Some flying along beside the car going. You're in a full out of body experience. Full blown out of body. This is the first one you've had? First one I ever had in my whole life.

• 1:46:14Speaker 06

  Yelling, stop, stop. And then the next thing I knew, I was kind of like in the backseat of the car hovering.

• 1:46:22Speaker 06

  Which you can't do with your whole body. But I had that sense. And I saw him blow through the, back then they had, uh, customs from Austria into Germany and Germany and Austria, that kind of thing. He blew right through the customs check.

• 1:46:43Speaker 06

  Hung a hard right. Now we're back in, uh, Germany. He drove for quite a while. Back across through another customs into Austria. And then back through another customs into Germany. He had to go around the city or something. But where we wound up was over near a city called, uh, Passau. It's way down in the southern tip of Bavaria.

• 1:47:13Speaker 06

  And he went to a, uh, it's called a clinic or clinic or something. It, it's not a full blown hospital. It's like a clinic. And he pulled me out of the car, threw me over his shoulder and went to the door and the door was locked. And I was like, I'm thinking, watching this. Isn't that just like a hospital to be locked up when you need it?

• 1:47:40Speaker 06

  But he started kicking the door with his foot really hard. And this doctor rolls up to the door in a wheelchair. And I'm thinking, no, this has got to be a dream. That's what I started thinking.

• 1:47:55Speaker 06

  But the doctor unlocked the door and I found out later, that's what they do. They lock the door after seven o'clock or eight o'clock at night.

• 1:48:04Speaker 06

  And brought him in. He laid me on a table in an emergency room with the big lights and all that stuff. Are you still out of body at this point? Yeah, I'm hovering in that room. Watching them cutting my clothes off and sticking all kinds of things in my throat and up my nose and all that stuff. So I don't know what the hell's going on, but I'm I'm feeling a lot of heat on the back of my neck. And I thought, this must be the emergency light. And I must be bumping up against it. That's what my thought was. I turned around and I was enveloped in a white light.

• 1:48:49Speaker 06

  The light was the brightest light I've ever been in, but the least disturbing. It was like total, complete comfort. It's like being in the hand of God. And this voice said, it's okay. And I was like, yeah, this is perfect. It says, but you can't stay. I went, I'm looking for something to hold on to. They're not pulling me out of here. I'm I'm actually looking for a handle or something I can hold on to.

• 1:49:33Speaker 06

  And I suddenly woke up, I sat up and I was totally naked under a sheet and I had tubes and wires up all up to my body and I looked around and there was this German patient laying in this bed next to me. And I looked at him and I said, hey, it's okay, God's a white light and you can't cease to exist.

• 1:49:55Speaker 06

  Out the door the patient went. In comes the doctor. So you're awake.

• 1:50:03Speaker 06

  Not anymore. Off I went again. I woke up the next day. It was daylight.

• 1:50:12Speaker 06

  And I was on a gurney and I had a mask on my face that was actually taped down.

• 1:50:18Speaker 06

  And I was strapped to this gurney, arms and all. Up on the back of seats and it was a stretch limo. They had actually put me in a stretch limo and they had tin foil taped over all the windows. And off we went and I'm yelling, I'm trying to yell. Through the mask, where are we going, what's going on?

• 1:50:44Speaker 06

  And I just fell back into the comfort of whatever was going on. And didn't awaken again until much later and it was dark again. And when I woke up that time, I was in a hospital bed in a room.

• 1:51:02Speaker 06

  That had some great views of gardens and stuff outside.

• 1:51:08Speaker 06

  And what it was, it was the end room at a rest home. They had leased the entire wing, which was empty, except for that end room and I was in the end room.

• 1:51:21Speaker 06

  And it was a psychiatrist there.

• 1:51:25Speaker 06

  And he said, you've had a, an interesting experience.

• 1:51:32Speaker 06

  I don't want you to talk now. I said, bullshit, I wanna know where I am, what's going on, etc. And he said, well, I can't tell you that. And I said, well, who can? Get him in here, let's talk about it. No, you need to relax, you need to rest. And I just kept getting one more hyper. So they pulled him out of there.

• 1:51:58Speaker 06

  And the next morning, I fell asleep again. The next morning, when I woke up, there was a new psychiatrist in the room. And he was sitting there and he looked over at me, he smiled and he said, "Welcome back."

• 1:52:10Speaker 06

  And I said, "Who are you?" And he told me, "Journal so-and-so, I'm a staff psychiatrist." Uh, I think he said he was with the sixty-six MI, but I may be inserting that. I can't remember. Uh, but he said, uh,

• 1:52:30Speaker 06

  "If you wanna talk, I'm here to talk." And he just pretty much left me alone.

• 1:52:38Speaker 06

  And so I started asking him how long I'd been there and stuff, and he gave me straight up answers. And I got the liking of him. And then he leaned over and he said,

• 1:52:51Speaker 06

  "What you wanna do is you wanna try to be normal here if you expect to leave."

• 1:52:59Speaker 06

  And sat back.

• 1:53:03Speaker 06

  And I thought about it a little while. I leaned over to him and I said, "What's normal?

• 1:53:11Speaker 06

  Tell me what's normal and I'll be as normal as you want me to be." 'Cause this whole thing's a trip for me.

• 1:53:20Speaker 06

  I thought I'd been heavily drugged. And, and I probably had been up to that point. Um, but they didn't know what happened to me and I don't know what happened to me. All they assumed was there had been irreparable brain damage because every time they asked me what happened, I kept saying, "I went and I was with God, who's a white light. You can't cease to exist." That's all I know. And it's the most comfortable place you could ever be.

• 1:54:00Speaker 06

  Okay, get a little more rest.

• 1:54:04Speaker 06

  They weren't buying that. They thought I was brain damaged.

• 1:54:09Speaker 06

  So I started saying, where's my wife? Uh, don't worry about her.

• 1:54:15Speaker 06

  We'll get her in here eventually. What they had done.

• 1:54:22Speaker 06

  I was the detachment commander at the time of a border site, which I can't go into in any depth.

• 1:54:33Speaker 06

  And they had let everybody at my border site know, and that's probably, at that time, I think I had thirteen people inside.

• 1:54:43Speaker 06

  Think that I was dead.

• 1:54:46Speaker 06

  That I had died as a result of what happened at the restaurant.

• 1:54:53Speaker 06

  So.

• 1:54:56Speaker 06

  Turns out, they even let my wife think I was dead too. Holy shit. Cause they didn't know what had happened.

• 1:55:07Speaker 06

  And that's when the thinking came out. Well, maybe this was a

• 1:55:13Speaker 06

  an attempted assassination or something. And I kept saying, no, it's something in what I drank. Maybe it. I kept saying, maybe it's, I'm allergic to something in my drink. Well, the closest they came was, they said it was probably a binary poison.

• 1:55:36Speaker 06

  And I said, what the hell is a binary poison? And the guy told me that the person I was talking to, one of the psychiatrists, he was a medical doctor. He said, it's basically two enzymes. You give me, you get an A enzyme with your breakfast. It's in the scrambled eggs. So everybody who has scrambled eggs that morning with you gets enzyme A.

• 1:56:04Speaker 06

  Enzyme B comes later that day. Enzyme A is stored in your liver. Enzyme B, you get in your before dinner drink. As does everyone else that orders that drink.

• 1:56:21Speaker 06

  So that it's not, you can't, you don't target somebody specifically, but in reality, you do. Only the targeted individual gets both enzymes. When they combine in the liver, they create a third enzyme, which creates a stroke, a massive heart attack, something that mimics a natural death. And that this poison was developed by the USSR, stolen by us, polished by us, would be a way of putting it.

• 1:57:00Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect.

• 1:57:01Speaker 06

  Stolen back by the USSR. So, nobody knows who did what to whom. And that's what they were trying to sort out. Plus, they were trying to sort out whether or not,

• 1:57:18Speaker 06

  whether or not I had brain damage. And so, over the course of about a week, they decided that there wasn't significant brain damage, that I had actually had that experience, and that I had actually been out of body. All those things had actually happened. And that was due to the psychiatrist I had, who had evidently dealt with other people, who had had out of significant out of body effects from near-death experiences. And he convinced them that, of that. So, I was reassigned to the 66MI unit. That's when my wife was brought in.

• 1:58:07Shawn Ryan?

  Now, you, you had later been, you had later been trained on how to control an out-of-body experience?

• 1:58:18Speaker 06

  Yes, I was trained by Robert Monroe, who actually wrote the book on out-of-body,

• 1:58:27Speaker 06

  Journeys Out of the Body by Robert Monroe. He actually brought it to the public forefront. I'm sure many people had that experience and never talked about it until he wrote his book.

• 1:58:45Speaker 06

  And so the department, when I was, when I was judged to be an excellent remote viewer, they knew that I had been having spontaneous out of bodies ever since that event.

• 1:59:01Shawn Ryan?

  So, hold on, before, how would that get triggered?

• 1:59:06Speaker 06

  There is no trigger, that's the problem.

• 1:59:09Shawn Ryan?

  So it would just happen?

• 1:59:10Speaker 06

  It would just happen.

• 1:59:11Shawn Ryan?

  Does it still happen?

• 1:59:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, I still have spontaneous out of bodies every now and then. Uh, there's a way to initiate them,

• 1:59:23Speaker 06

  which I haven't done since the project terminated.

• 1:59:28Speaker 06

  Actually, since I haven't done since I did a couple of targets for Department of Defense, EOD.

• 1:59:37Speaker 06

  They, what they did is they actually came out and hired Bob Monroe to teach me how to initiate, control my out of bodies.

• 1:59:48Speaker 06

  They wanted to see if intelligence could be collected that way that would be even better than remote viewing, more defined.

• 1:59:59Speaker 06

  So, what I did for many, many months is I would leave Fort Meade after my remote viewing on a Thursday night, drive to, uh, Virginia, to, uh, the Nellie's Ford area of Virginia where the Monroe Institute is located.

• 2:00:20Speaker 06

  And, uh,

• 2:00:23Speaker 06

  I would get up early on Friday morning and then Friday, all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I would work with Bob Monroe in his lab. I'd start very early in the morning and we work all day just doing exercises where he was teaching me how to initiate an out of body and control it.

• 2:00:47Speaker 06

  Hard work, really difficult. Not so much initiating them, but controlling them is a bitch.

• 2:00:55Shawn Ryan?

  How, how do you initiate that?

• 2:00:59Speaker 06

  You lay in a certain position and you try to generate a repetitive vibration that starts at your feet.

• 2:01:11Speaker 06

  And it like runs up your body to the top of your head and back down to your feet. Most people, when they get this, get uncomfortable and they move around and it stops.

• 2:01:25Speaker 06

  If you generate it and it runs up to the head and down to the feet, you can keep it going. You can energize it. You can put more energy behind it to the point that you eventually separate from your body, roll out of your body so that you're looking down at your body. Or you pass through a wall and you're outside floating like in some suspended

• 2:01:57Speaker 06

  state of disbelief. Because it's as real as you and I are sitting here talking when you're out of body and completely out of body.

• 2:02:09Speaker 06

  If you're, if you're not generating a fear of it or you're not falling victim to being afraid of what might happen, that sort of thing.

• 2:02:21Shawn Ryan?

  So you need to be in full confidence?

• 2:02:23Speaker 06

  Yes. Initially, you have a, like I had a sense every time I separated from my body that there was something evil in the room, something base, base evil that you couldn't deal with in the room with me.

• 2:02:43Speaker 06

  And I asked Bob about it. He'd say, I'd be inside this black cube, shielded box laying on the bed. He'd be in a different room monitoring me and he'd say, "It's okay, just go with it." I'd say, "But what is that?" And he'd say, "You'll figure it out." That's all he would ever say, "You'll figure it out." And it's something you have to deal with yourself. And he knew that.

• 2:03:15Speaker 06

  And at some point, when I was hovering above my body, getting this just overwhelming feeling of base, ugly thing in the room with me. I roll over to confront it, and it was my physical body underneath me. So your perceptions of baseness and ugliness and everything about this evil is your physical presence, which is kind of interesting.

• 2:03:51Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting.

• 2:03:53Speaker 06

  Because when you're out of body, it's a higher form of sensing, a higher form of being. The problem with it is, the next thing you have to control is how to go somewhere and do something. You can go out of body, and the first thing that catches your attention is a chandelier in the next room. But the chandelier, when you pass into it, is the most glorious thing you've ever seen in your whole life. Because you're collecting everything about it into your sense, your sense of it. And, and so, it's like, you just wanna grovel in it.

• 2:04:37Speaker 06

  Everything is better than what you are. I mean, you just, you just wanna capture all of it. Things of beauty are ten times more beautiful, and things that you would normally not pay any attention to are the most gorgeous things on the planet. It's hard to not be distracted in the out-of-body condition. So I did that, and then Monday morning at 4:00 a.m. I get up and drive back to Fort Meade.

• 2:05:12Shawn Ryan?

  Can you, can you feel?

• 2:05:17Speaker 06

  Can you feel energy flow? You can feel everything in the out of body condition.

• 2:05:25Speaker 06

  For instance,

• 2:05:29Speaker 06

  and once you get control of it, then Bob would start giving me things to do. He'd say,

• 2:05:39Speaker 06

  "Go to the location in the envelope." And I'd go to the, whatever that location was. And I'd be in the out of body state and I'd say, I'd report to him what I was finding.

• 2:05:52Speaker 06

  On this one occasion, he sent me to the Basilica in Rome.

• 2:06:01Speaker 06

  It was in the envelope. The altar in the center of the Basilica of Rome.

• 2:06:09Speaker 06

  So I landed there in the out of body condition. And there was a beam of white light that came through the center of the dome. It just splattered on the floor.

• 2:06:22Speaker 06

  It filled the whole room with light. And I told him, "This is a place of light. It's a column of just what looks like liquid energy light coming through the center of a dome." And he said, "Put your hand in it."

• 2:06:44Speaker 06

  Put my hand in it. I went, "Oh, wow." And he said, "What are you feeling?" And I said,

• 2:06:53Speaker 06

  "Perfection."

• 2:06:57Speaker 06

  "What do you mean?" "I don't know.

• 2:07:02Speaker 06

  Don't want to move. Just want to be here."

• 2:07:07Speaker 06

  It felt like unconditional love, perfection. Then I said housed in a box of broken glass, or something like that. So, okay, fine, pull your hand out. Why? Because I said so. I'll come in there and jerk you out of that bed. No, you didn't say that. But he'd say it's time to leave or something, and I would do that. But we, we did that for quite a while, and then people showed up. While I was in the box and I was taking a nap, because we'd been working for quite a while.

• 2:07:52Speaker 06

  And this is months later. They showed up to test me. And so I got two targets, which I was tested on. And I did the two targets. Gave them, wrote it all out afterwards. And gave it to the representatives from the DOD. And afterwards, they said, don't do this anymore.

• 2:08:31Shawn Ryan?

  What is, I mean, what is your reaction to that?

• 2:08:33Speaker 06

  My reaction to that is, oh, you don't like the result. So now I'm not supposed to do it anymore. If it had been the result you wanted, then I would be doing it some more. That's how I felt in my head and everything. The one target, the second target that I did.

• 2:08:59Shawn Ryan?

  Let me, if you don't mind, can I rewind?

• 2:09:01Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 2:09:02Shawn Ryan?

  So you were poisoned in an assassination attempt. You had an out of body experience. Then they wanted to study you at some, in the wing of some psych ward or hospital or something under, under medical supervision.

• 2:09:20Speaker 06

  I don't think it was study. I think they were trying to determine whether I had.

• 2:09:26Speaker 06

  Irreversible brain damage, or whether or not I was still sane and straight.

• 2:09:31Shawn Ryan?

  From there, you went to be trained on by Bob Monroe and out of body experiences?

• 2:09:41Speaker 06

  From there, I finished a complete another tour.

• 2:09:46Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:09:47Speaker 06

  In Germany, Northern Thailand, did some things in other countries. And then came back to the States, made warrant, was in charge of my MOS. And then recruited by the psychic program. Developed my psychic abilities to the point that some have said it's the best in the world. And that's when they decided, well, maybe it would be even better if you could go out of body to a target.

• 2:10:25Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:10:26Speaker 06

  And collect data.

• 2:10:27Shawn Ryan?

  Let's, let's stay in chronological order, if, if, if that's okay, I would like to revisit this. Why do you think that so many people who have out of body experiences? I've had several on the show who have had out of body experience in combat. From being shot in the head or, or.

• 2:10:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:10:46Shawn Ryan?

  Leg blown off.

• 2:10:46Speaker 06

  I can understand it.

• 2:10:48Shawn Ryan?

  Why do you think that, why is it a near death experience that seems to always trigger the initial out of body experience?

• 2:11:01Speaker 06

  I think it's as close to death as you can ever come and still be here.

• 2:11:07Speaker 06

  That's what I think. Now.

• 2:11:11Speaker 06

  Can it be generated? Yeah, you could generate it, but only within limited circumstances in terms of targeting something.

• 2:11:23Speaker 06

  The second target I did is a good example.

• 2:11:32Speaker 06

  They gave me a picture of a building.

• 2:11:36Speaker 06

  And they said, "We're not going to tell you where this building is. Your charge here, the mission.

• 2:11:45Speaker 06

  A, find the building. Once you've found it, countries, nobody cares. Find this building. Once you find the building,

• 2:11:58Speaker 06

  go to the, I can't remember, the second or third floor. Pass through the wall. Go down the hallway. Find the back vault door.

• 2:12:10Speaker 06

  Pass through the vault door

• 2:12:14Speaker 06

  into what's a, we'll call it a lab. Go to the northwest corner and there's a table and on the table is an object.

• 2:12:24Speaker 06

  Push your face into the object. Collect as much data as you can. Wake yourself up and draw it to detail in scale on a piece of paper. That was my mission.

• 2:12:40Speaker 06

  It took me two and a half weeks of out of bodies just to find the building.

• 2:12:46Speaker 06

  And when I found the building, it took three or four out of bodies to get to the vault room. But I was finally able to pass through the vault door, which is an experience in itself. Passing through a vault door, you can actually feel it. It's like peeling your way through an onion with your molecular shape. It's, I don't know how to explain that. But it's like,

• 2:13:15Speaker 06

  you can feel every molecule as you pass through it.

• 2:13:20Speaker 06

  I don't think it's so much the material as it's the denial of access that does that to you. I can't explain it.

• 2:13:33Speaker 06

  But you get inside the room and you go to the northwest corner. I'm not sure I was at the northwest corner. I just went to wherever the table was. And there was an object about this size on the table and I pushed my face into it and I memorized it in detail. Tried to understand how the parts center worked with each other, that's that kind of thing. And then woke myself up and I went in, I had a drafting table in my home. And I drew a detailed picture of it.

• 2:14:15Speaker 06

  And I rolled it up, put it in a tube and mailed it to the people that had tasked me. They came out some weeks later, two guys, and they said, "We have some questions you want to ask you." And I said, "Fine." They said, "Where did you take high-energy physics?" And I said, "I have never taken high-energy physics anywhere." "Okay, who do you know that's a high-energy physicist?" And I said, "I know one guy, Ed May. He's my good buddy from the lab, LFR, Labhorse Fundamental Research. I've known him in the remote viewing area since I started."

• 2:14:58Speaker 06

  I said, "I know him. He's a low-energy physicist. I don't know any high-energy physicists." "Okay. Uh, where do you check your books out? What libraries?" And I was like, "Oh, come on." I'm starting to think, you don't believe what I did. You think I just psychically figured out what it was and I've asked people in detail about it? "No, we just really want to know where you sign your books out." So I gave them permission letters to go to the two libraries I used and ask, "What books did you sign out?" That sort of thing.

• 2:15:43Speaker 06

  I think they were very badly misled when they saw what books I signed out. Um, so.

• 2:15:55Speaker 06

  I uh

• 2:15:58Speaker 06

  got the idea that they didn't believe what happened. And it pissed me off. So I said, I could build something better than what I saw. What did you see?

• 2:16:11Speaker 06

  I'm not sure. Some kind of a

• 2:16:15Speaker 06

  trigger or something. For? A device of some kind. I don't know. But I knew I could build one better just by going into light fiber. This was a copper wire thing. I said, I could speed it up a hundred thousand times with light fiber. In fact, I could make it so fast it'd get warm when it runs or hot even then melt down. So I'd have to put it in an acrylic cube and run coolant through it. So I did all that. And I drew it in detail, but it was down to about twice the size of a pack cigarettes.

• 2:16:55Speaker 06

  And I drew it to scale in detail with lots of notes and stuff. The big thing was a

• 2:17:05Speaker 06

  there was a trigger in it.

• 2:17:09Speaker 06

  I don't know if there are certain things that if you put too much power to them, it'll kill a city. You know, it'll shut all the power down. It's like the big lights over a football field. If you just snap a switch and turn them all on at one time, the city goes dead, goes dark. So they have these switches that are slow build switches. They come on very slowly. And the lights come on very dim and they start brightening and eventually they come up to operating speed. That way the light doesn't explode when it's suddenly lit and all the power is going to the lights and that sort of thing.

• 2:17:49Speaker 06

  Well, I needed one of those switches and I couldn't find one. I went to three or four different electronic places.

• 2:17:59Speaker 06

  So I finally found a switch that would work and I drew that into the plan. And I roll it up, put it in a tube and mill it.

• 2:18:09Speaker 06

  They showed up the next day.

• 2:18:12Speaker 06

  Non-disclosure agreements. Never promised never to draw this again, ever. Don't show this to anybody. Don't talk about it in detail with anybody. Blah, blah, blah. So I signed all the papers and said bye. I've never been tasked with another out-of-body target.

• 2:18:33Shawn Ryan?

  Can I ask why you signed those papers?

• 2:18:36Speaker 06

  Because I didn't give a shit.

• 2:18:39Shawn Ryan?

  Did it bother you that somebody was having you sign documents basically saying, "We're going to limit your mental capacity"?

• 2:18:52Speaker 06

  No, because I can still go out of body anytime I want. I can still do things out of body, I just don't tell people about it.

• 2:18:59Shawn Ryan?

  Where was the building?

• 2:19:02Speaker 06

  I don't know. I honestly don't.

• 2:19:04Shawn Ryan?

  How did you find it?

• 2:19:08Speaker 06

  I don't know the answer to that either. I just kept looking everywhere I went out of body. I just kept looking.

• 2:19:14Shawn Ryan?

  How did you begin the search?

• 2:19:16Speaker 06

  The search? Well, I started in this country. And I went to Canada, and then I went to Mexico, and then I spread out from there. I just started looking for something identifiable. And I think there's an inherent way that out-of-body works. It gets you to what you're looking for. If you can maintain the focus long enough.

• 2:19:47Shawn Ryan?

  When you begin the search and you're out of body, are you, is it like a bird's eye view? Or are you street level?

• 2:19:56Speaker 06

  I think it's a... In the out-of-body condition, it's like you can observe a lot of things simultaneously. It's, you're not limited to what we're limited to in the body.

• 2:20:14Shawn Ryan?

  Is it intuition?

• 2:20:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. For lack of a better word, it's more than that, but that comes close to it.

• 2:20:26Shawn Ryan?

  You're experiencing multiple locations at the same

• 2:20:29Speaker 06

  Same time, right.

• 2:20:32Shawn Ryan?

  And you're able to process.

• 2:20:34Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, just in remote viewing, I'm able to process vast amounts of data. Because everything I get from a remote viewing standpoint, I don't necessarily retain.

• 2:20:48Speaker 06

  I get it, I start stacking it in different columns. One thing relates to another, I move columns around. Then I collapse it back down to something that's definable. And then I start deciding what I will use and what I won't use. I throw things out, I add things in. By the time I sketch something on a piece of paper,

• 2:21:12Speaker 06

  it's usually

• 2:21:15Speaker 06

  some time invested in the remote viewing. I just don't put everything down like I used to. When I first started in remote viewing,

• 2:21:26Speaker 06

  you have a tendency to write everything down.

• 2:21:31Speaker 06

  It's too slow. That's not how the brain works. The brain works rapidly, very fast. And it's an intuitive action because you're not wasting your time on things that don't apply. You're only going with what applies.

• 2:21:51Speaker 06

  And in remote viewing, you have a bit, you come to a basic understanding for what it is you're looking for.

• 2:21:59Speaker 06

  And then you try to find it in the way it's being used.

• 2:22:04Speaker 06

  So

• 2:22:08Speaker 06

  I should have brought some really good examples of my remote viewing with me. Where most people

• 2:22:20Speaker 06

  Write a few words and do some sketchy stuff. I'll draw it detail. An example would be, if you want to hear an example.

• 2:22:31Shawn Ryan?

  Absolutely, I would like to hear an example.

• 2:22:33Speaker 06

  Okay, there was a uh, an agency came to us and said, can you track a spy? And we said, piece of cake. That's what, that's what I said. Piece of cake. My buddy, Dr. May said, yeah, I think we could do it. And I said, what's in it for us? Cause I was working for the lab at the time. And I knew that's what he would say. And they said, we'll give you, I don't know. I can't remember now how much it was. Let's say a quarter of a million dollars. If you can prove you could track a spy, we'll give you a quarter of a million dollars. And so we said, sure, piece of cake.

• 2:23:18Speaker 06

  So my targeting material, you ready for this? Social Security number. What does that tell you about a spy? You don't know if it's a 14 year old or an 85 year old. You don't know if it's male or female. You don't know if it's Chicago or San Francisco or New York City, right? Okay. That was my targeting material. And we'll call you on the phone at different times and ask you to tell us where our spy is. Okay. So

• 2:24:01Speaker 06

  first call I got was like three months later at 12:30 midnight when I was out on the west coast, working in the lab. But when I first arrived, I was in San Francisco staying with a psychologist that we had working at the lab, a guy named David Lance. So I'm staying in his home with him and his wife.

• 2:24:28Speaker 06

  And uh, he gets awakened at twelve thirty midnight. Hey, there's some guy on the phone that says he wants to talk to you. He woke me up. So I went to the kitchen and I answered the phone. Uh, tell us where our spy is. So I said, okay, and I hung up and I drew. I drew a picture of. I'll think of it, Altoona Pass, uh, down near. I want to say Palo Alto, but it's way further south than that.

• 2:25:09Speaker 06

  It's where they built the first group of wind generators. It's called Altoona Pass. So I drew hills and I put in the towers and I put the rotating things on them. And I drew dotted lines together. I said, it's a big electrical grid. It's collected by the wind. It's a wind generating area. And he's parked by the central tower in a rental car. That's exactly where he was. And it's a perfect drawing of Altoona Pass, so.

• 2:25:48Shawn Ryan?

  What, what, what do these, what, what do they say to that? Are they in disbelief?

• 2:25:51Speaker 06

  They didn't say a word to us. We just sent them that. So they said, okay, thank you. Didn't say a word. Dr. May says, I'd only give you a ninety-nine percent on this one if it's true. Because you didn't tell me what color the rental car is. So we're, we're kidding with each other about that stuff, okay? So time goes by a few months and I get another request. Uh, it was two in the afternoon or something. They just interrupted something I was doing. Can you tell us where our spy is? And I said.

• 2:26:34Speaker 06

  I worked on, oh, on such and such a date at such such a time. Where was our spy? Such middle of the day. The time and date, I have no idea. Other than it's like early, wee early morning hours. On some day of the week. Just passed. So I drew a corner of a, a lab place. Put in parking lots, roads, trees lining the roads. Uh, T shaped building right in the center. And I said, your spy is in the T shaped building, which is otherwise known as the A building. That's the name of it, A building.

• 2:27:18Speaker 06

  He's at the top floor, center of the, the T shape. He's facing out through a picture window. You might otherwise call this the director's office. It's 12:30 midnight. He's got his feet crossed up on the director's desk and he's smoking one of the director's illegal Cuban cigars. And. So we sent him the picture. Now Ed showed the picture to some other people and they all went, oh yeah, that's the west gate of Lawrence Ovalmore Lavatories. That's where they build nuclear weapons. Where do you think he was sitting? In the director's chair.

• 2:28:01Speaker 06

  12:30, looking out of his picture window at the rest of the lab. Smoking one of his Cuban cigars. That was the second hit. Wow. The third hit, they said, okay, you, you've demonstrated, you can probably track a spy. That's nice. Tell us what he's doing. He's a creative kind of guy, so tell us what he's doing.

• 2:28:31Speaker 06

  He's in the middle of the desert. He's got two big tractor trailer trucks, vans. And he's working inside the vans and he's testing a piece of equipment. It's a microwave equipment. It's operating on this frequency band. And it's got a sixty degree bandwidth. And he's targeting electronic equipment at a little over sixty to a hundred and fifty yards for destructive purposes.

• 2:29:06Speaker 06

  Oh, and his hobby is, he loves to drive for lunch. He likes to go over to this solar experimental station and watch the mirrors make a miniature sun on the end of a tower. He loves to see that stuff.

• 2:29:28Speaker 06

  That's all we said.

• 2:29:31Speaker 06

  So they came back and said, maybe you'd like to see what he was actually working on. And so Ed and I said, sure. So they flew us out to Sandista Desert. We're in a military car driving down the dirt road. And we come over a hill and they stopped us. They had a block on the road. They had this arm down. The solar station, the experimental station is doing a test. So you could actually smell the ozone in the air with these mirrors when they made a miniature sun on top of the tower. It's crackling up there. You could smell the ozone. I mean, it was beautiful.

• 2:30:15Speaker 06

  And the whole experiment ends. Oh, and Ed's looking at the driver, he's saying, you know, if you had a bag, I'd put it over this guy's head because he's not supposed to be reporting on this.

• 2:30:28Speaker 06

  So they lift the guard gates, so we head on down the road and we see this dust cloud coming down the side road from the solar array. And it pulls out in the road right in front of us and accelerates away down the road. And so we follow that dust cloud and pull into the same place. Two big vans sitting on tractor trailer trucks. And it's exactly what I drew. I drew like, you know, 15 drawings, about 75 pages of transcript. And they gave all that material to an independent agency and they said exactly what it did and said they could build it.

• 2:31:10Speaker 06

  And that's exactly what he was doing, what I said he was doing. And what they came back and said was, "Our spy has no hobbies." And we asked the guy where he was coming from for lunch. He said, "Oh, it's kind of my hobby. I go over there for lunch to watch the solar array." We made sure we put it in his statement in the letter we sent back to him. So he said, "That's the only thing I had wrong." That's an example of my viewing at the end of my seven-year career at Fort Meade.

• 2:31:49Shawn Ryan?

  You still have those sketches?

• 2:31:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, I can send them to you.

• 2:31:54Shawn Ryan?

  That would be great. We'd like to overlay them over the interview.

• 2:31:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:32:00Shawn Ryan?

  Joe, let's, um, let's take a break.

• 2:32:02Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 2:32:03Shawn Ryan?

  When we come back, I want to talk about how you were recruited into the remote viewing program.

• 2:32:08Speaker 06

  That's a good, good idea.

• 2:32:11Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. I want to tell you about this business venture I've been on for about the past seven, eight months, and it's finally come to fruition.

• 2:32:23Shawn Ryan?

  I've been hell-bent on finding the cleanest functional mushroom supplement on the planet. And that all kind of stemmed from the psychedelic treatment I did. Came out of it, got a ton of benefits, haven't had a drop of alcohol in almost two years. I'm more in the moment with my family. And that led me down researching the benefits of just everyday functional mushrooms. And I started taking some supplements, I found some coffee replacements, I even repped a brand. And, you know, it got to the point where I just wanted the finest ingredients available, no matter where they come from. And it got to this point where I was just gonna start my own brand.

• 2:33:06Shawn Ryan?

  And so we started going to trade shows and looking for the finest ingredients. And in doing that, I ran into this guy, maybe you've heard of him. His name's Laird Hamilton. And his wife Gabby Reese. And they have an entire line of supplements with all the finest ingredients. And we got to talking. Turns out, they have the perfect functional mushroom supplement. It's actually called Performance Mushrooms. And this has everything, it's USDA organic, it's got chaga, cordyceps, lion's mane, miyataki.

• 2:33:46Shawn Ryan?

  This stuff is amazing for energy balance, for cognition. Look, just being honest, see a lot of people taking care of their bodies. I do not see a lot of people taking care of their brain. This is the product, guys. And so, we got to talking, and our values seemed very aligned. We're both into the functional mushrooms. And after a lot of back and forth, I am now a shareholder in the company.

• 2:34:21Shawn Ryan?

  I have a small amount of ownership and I'm just, look, I'm just really proud to be repping and be a part of the company that's making the best functional mushroom supplement on the planet. You can get this stuff at layered superfoods.com. You can use the promo code SRS, that'll get you 20% off these performance mushrooms, or anything in the store. They got a ton of good stuff. Once again, that's layered superfoods.com. Use the promo code SRS, that gets you 20% off. You guys are gonna love this stuff, I guarantee it.

• 2:35:05Shawn Ryan?

  I want to give a big thank you out right now to all the Vigilance Elite patrons out there that are watching the show right now. Just want to say thank you, guys. You are our top supporters and you're what makes this show actually happen. If you're not on Vigilance Elite Patreon, I want to tell you a little bit about what's going on in there. So, we do a little bit of everything. There's plenty of behind the scenes content from the actual Sean Ryan Show. On top of that, basically what I do is I take a lot of the questions that I get from you guys, or the patrons, and then I turn them into videos. So we get, right now, there's a lot of concern about self-defense, home defense, crimes on the rise,

• 2:35:50Shawn Ryan?

  all throughout the country, actually all throughout the world. And so, we talk about everything from how to prep your home, how to clear your home, how to get familiar with a firearm, both rifle and pistol, for beginners and advanced. We talk about mindset, we talk about defensive driving. We have an end of the month live chat that I'm on, at the end of every month, where we can talk about whatever topics you guys have. It's actually done on Zoom. You might enjoy it, check it out. And, if Zoom's not your thing, or you don't like live chats, like I said, there's a library of well over 100 videos on where to start with prepping, all the firearm stuff, pretty much anything you can think of, it's on there.

• 2:36:35Shawn Ryan?

  So anyways, go to www.patreon.com/vigilanceelite, or just go on the link in the description, it'll take you right there. And if you don't want to, and you just want to continue to watch the show, that's fine too. I appreciate it either way. Love you all. Let's get back to the show. Thank you.

• 2:36:59Shawn Ryan?

  Alright Joe, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into how you were recruited for the remote viewing program. Before we do that, I'm curious about your bracelet. Does that have any meaning?

• 2:37:12Speaker 06

  This bracelet?

• 2:37:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that bracelet.

• 2:37:13Speaker 06

  It's actually, it's kind of somewhat similar to one that I gave my wife. It's made by a congressman who was also a Native American.

• 2:37:23Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:37:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, in New Mexico, and I happened to be working at the Los Alamos lab at the time.

• 2:37:30Shawn Ryan?

  You worked at Los Alamos?

• 2:37:31Speaker 06

  Well, I worked there in terms of being studied.

• 2:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:37:36Speaker 06

  They did a, uh, they did a study for two years of hopefully me doing remote viewing, but it was in a mu metal shielded room on a bean bag where they suck the air out of the bag. It matches your body, you lay on your face, and they had a large can filled with liquid nitrogen and seven squids, what they call squids, subquantum interface devices, and it was pressed with a robotic arm to the back of the skull. And it measured each individual axion firing in the brain whenever we did something.

• 2:38:22Speaker 06

  And what they learned is you can't capture remote viewing that way. Second thing they learned is not all thought happens here. It also happens behind your elbow, behind your knee. Your entire nervous system is filled with actual brain cells. So there's thought and action that takes place throughout your nervous system. We, we actually knew that eight years before it became public knowledge through somebody else's study. We just got that by accident.

• 2:38:58Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. That's public knowledge, huh?

• 2:39:01Speaker 06

  Yeah. The cool thing, the cool thing was that when we leased the lab to do the study, the people that actually worked in that lab before we leased it from them were told by letter from their boss, stay away from these people. They're nuts. They snuck in anyway and observed what we were doing and read some of what we were writing and that sort of thing. And when our two-year study was over, we got an application for employment from every single person working in that lab.

• 2:39:38Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:39:38Speaker 06

  Because we were doing something more interesting than they were doing in the government lab.

• 2:39:43Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:39:44Speaker 06

  So.

• 2:39:45Shawn Ryan?

  That is, uh, man, I can't bring anything up without, without, uh, you having something to, it's crazy. It's fascinating. I love this interview.

• 2:39:57Speaker 06

  We, we had, uh, people with actual, that were Nobel laureates, actually made statements to us where they said, even if you proved it beyond the shadow of doubt, we'd still deny it. Nobel laureates saying that.

• 2:40:18Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:18Speaker 06

  I mean, and unfortunately, having done a demonstration in front of the Senate Subcommittee for Intelligence way back, I had somebody in that committee tell me in the middle of a demonstration of remote viewing, stood up and said, sir, you're doing the work of the devil and you will burn in the fires of hell. And he ran out of the room.

• 2:40:48Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:40:49Speaker 06

  That's one of our senior senators. I actually said that. Made all the hairs down back of my neck.

• 2:40:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:58Speaker 06

  And then, and then when we broke for coffee, had another senior senator give me a big hug, wiping tears out of his eyes. And he said, you're doing God's work, son. Keep it up. And all the hair stood up on my neck again. It's like.

• 2:41:14Speaker 06

  I can't tell you who I'm working for. It's like insanity.

• 2:41:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:20Speaker 06

  That people go right to that. They go right to theology, religion. I- in many cases,

• 2:41:28Speaker 06

  if I don't blame what I do as a- on God, as a gift from God, then on the devil himself. But if I said it's God's gift,

• 2:41:42Speaker 06

  my son, you are perfect.

• 2:41:44Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 2:41:45Speaker 06

  That kind of thing.

• 2:41:46Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:41:47Speaker 06

  It's, uh, we want you on our bandwagon or we don't want you.

• 2:41:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, it's, uh,

• 2:41:56Shawn Ryan?

  ever since I've been diving into these kind of subjects, um, everybody wants to tell me how I- how to think, you know,

• 2:42:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:42:06Shawn Ryan?

  about them and-

• 2:42:06Speaker 06

  Don't want them to do that.

• 2:42:07Shawn Ryan?

  I guess just like anything else, right? Just like politics. If I don't agree with you-

• 2:42:11Speaker 06

  It's power.

• 2:42:12Shawn Ryan?

  Let me guess. Now we're gonna go into 30 minutes of you trying to convince me why I should think exactly like you. You know?

• 2:42:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:42:19Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, let's just save it, cause I'm not going to.

• 2:42:21Speaker 06

  Not gonna happen.

• 2:42:22Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, but anyways.

• 2:42:24Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:28Shawn Ryan?

  Grill friend- Grill Flame or Gondola? Which one is it?

• 2:42:32Speaker 06

  At the beginning, it was called Gondola Wish.

• 2:42:35Shawn Ryan?

  Gondola Wish.

• 2:42:36Speaker 06

  That's when it was, uh, an idea in the eye of somebody.

• 2:42:40Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:42:40Speaker 06

  Which was basically Major Keener and Skip Atwater, or Frederick Atwater, who was the first lieutenant at the time.

• 2:42:48Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:42:49Speaker 06

  And they both worked for the 902nd Military Intelligence Group, which is a, um, counterintelligence operation. Uh, they proposed, uh, a project in which it would be pursued.

• 2:43:09Shawn Ryan?

  So how did you get recruited?

• 2:43:11Speaker 06

  Well, I worked, I worked for a General Roy at the time. He was the commander of the Intelligence and Security Command for the whole Army, the intelligence business. And, uh, as I said, I was running my MOS with a GS-14 in an office directly over his head.

• 2:43:31Speaker 06

  And he called me in one morning, or had me come down and talk to him, I should say. And he wanted me to go out to Fort Meade and look at what they were proposing and come back and give him a briefing. He said, "I don't know anything about this subject matter." And I said, "What exactly is it?" And he said, "You'll have to find that out." He didn't want to turn me one way or the other. He wanted me to go check it out. So I spent the whole day there with Lieutenant Atwater and another major at the time. His name was Watt, W-A-T-T. And, uh, so I sat there the whole day looking, I was sitting

• 2:44:16Speaker 06

  in front of a table covered with nothing but a pile of stuff on psychic functioning.

• 2:44:23Speaker 06

  Some of it was, uh, stuff that we had purloined from different communist countries. Some of it was stuff out of Inquirer magazine. I mean, it was everything from the trash to the ash. I mean, everything.

• 2:44:39Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:40Speaker 06

  And I spent about four and a half hours sitting there just picking through it. And I saw maybe two documents in the whole pile that meant anything to me. The rest was garbage, just complete garbage. What people wanted you to think, what they wanted you to believe, stories written by people who didn't ask the right questions, you know, that kind of crap.

• 2:45:02Shawn Ryan?

  What was your opinion of the psychic, remote viewing?

• 2:45:10Shawn Ryan?

  Topic before you were recruited.

• 2:45:13Speaker 06

  Before I was recruited, didn't have an opinion.

• 2:45:16Shawn Ryan?

  Did you, did you, was there any discussion?

• 2:45:20Speaker 06

  I had some very interesting events in my life, particularly in Vietnam, that were very meaningful to me, but for other reasons. I didn't understand them, but they happened. An example would be, I was at a fire base and I can't remember the name of it now, but it was in

• 2:45:49Speaker 06

  they landed helicopters there and it was a support fire base. And I was there TDY, I was there maybe a month, running my the MPRD1s on the jeep.

• 2:46:05Speaker 06

  And I was asked to fulfill a role there if they came under attack. I was a senior staff sergeant, so they said, what we would like you to do is if we come under attack, since you're only here TDY, we want you to go to the bunker with the radios and help to coordinate whatever fire support we get. I said, fine, not a problem. So we came under attack one night, so I took off to the bunker. And just as I got to the bunker, I started down the steps into the bunker and I took maybe the first two steps, I was in a hurry. And somebody yelled, freeze, really loud. So I stopped and I looked to see who yelled it.

• 2:46:48Speaker 06

  And the whole bunker dissolved in front of me, just collapsed. It was hit with, I don't know how many different RPGs or something. Maybe a Zapper gun inside, I have no idea, but it just collapsed right in front of me. So I would have been inside that bunker when it collapsed. But I wasn't.

• 2:47:10Shawn Ryan?

  That's the second time I've heard that.

• 2:47:12Speaker 06

  Huh?

• 2:47:12Shawn Ryan?

  This is the second time I've heard that.

• 2:47:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was a voice out of somewhere and it stopped me dead in my tracks. Otherwise, I would have been in there.

• 2:47:24Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:47:27Speaker 06

  The second time, uh, in our, in our base camp, which is on a hill, uh, quite a distance from, uh, the 4th Division, Armored Division, and Pleiku City runway and that sort of stuff, Special Forces camp, we were on like half a hill with the combat engineers. They were on the backside of our hill. We were on the other side. And our side faced this just vast openness of just nothing but scrub as far as you could see. And then it went into the foothills and into the tri board area. And, uh,

• 2:48:12Speaker 06

  one of the things that we, that we had there was, like I said, we were living in holes in the ground, which was perfectly all right with us. I mean, I was comfortable. Unless you took a direct hit, and even then it would maybe go into the mud and you'd get an upward detonation or something and nobody get hurt. Get your brains rattled maybe, but that was it. Well, the engineers came in and built us these big concrete pads with these wooden buildings and put tin roofs on them. And our commander at the time said, I want everybody to move in there because we're going to bulldoze the holes. And I refused. I said, guys in my tent are not moving, and neither am I. Those are not

• 2:48:56Speaker 06

  properly fortified. They're not protected against attack by mortar. Until you got a layer of sandbags on the roof, I'm not moving anybody in there. And I couldn't convince them why it would be dangerous. Cause we had four of those buildings in a row. And everybody started moving in and we refused. So, we're out on a mission. When we came back, our hole was bulldozed over and we were moved in there. So I told my guys, okay, until I do something to revet the outside of the building and put something over the

• 2:49:35Speaker 06

  roof, I want you to sandbag your cots. Cause at least then you'll have something you can lay up against. Because if something comes to the roof, it's going to pre-detonate above the ground. We're going to get spouting off the concrete floor. It's going to just chew this place up.

• 2:49:56Speaker 06

  They ordered me to get all the sandbags out. And I refused to do that.

• 2:50:04Speaker 06

  When I was there, the commander came in, gave everybody a direct order. They started taking the sandbags out. I came back that evening. I was really hot. I went and argued with him. Came back in, crashed, fell asleep. Middle of my night that night, we got hit with mortar. We got bracked by two heavy mortars. And I mean, they tore us up. We got all kinds of pre-detonations, lots of wounded.

• 2:50:33Speaker 06

  Uh, the guy in the pri- I got a private room on the end of the barracks. So when I heard them going off, I just rolled off the cot and pulled everything in the room that wasn't attached to anything down on top of me.

• 2:50:46Speaker 06

  Everything I owned had holes in it.

• 2:50:50Speaker 06

  The guy in the room next to me never got out of his bed. He was hitting the head. It was just feathers everywhere from his pillow. Um.

• 2:51:00Speaker 06

  So I was inside having the guys re-sandbagged their, the surviving guys re-sandbagging their cots. When the, the boss came in again. And I just pulled my forty-five out, jacked around in it, and laid it on the sandbags and kept stacking the sandbags. And the first sergeant said, uh, maybe you ought to go outside with me, sir. We'll have a discussion about it out here. And he left and I never saw him again.

• 2:51:29Speaker 06

  That was the second time. It, it was like I, I knew stuff was gonna happen. But the thing that got to me was this kid.

• 2:51:40Speaker 06

  I can't even remember the state he was from, but he had a real southern accent, like from Kentucky or. Might've been Tennessee even. I can't remember.

• 2:51:51Speaker 06

  But he, all he wanted to do was make me happy. Cause I happened to be the, the uh, Sart- the Sergeant of the Guard one night. And so I was in charge of all the bunkers and stuff. So the following morning, when the bunker guys had all been relieved, I told this kid, I said, go out and collect all the loose hand grenades. Collect them up. Put them in the back of the three quarter ton truck. I tell, I didn't tell him specifically how to do that, but I told him to do that. So he said, yes, sir, yes, sir, right away. And he ran out to do it. And I was talking to someone else, maybe eighty feet away from the bunkers.

• 2:52:36Speaker 06

  And the three quarter was parked over near the, the side. And he was waving at me and he was walking to the three quarter ton truck carrying a gunny sack. And I had this picture in my mind of the open weaving in the gunny sack catching a pin. You know, just getting hung up on a pin. And so I started yelling at him and doing this. He started waving back. And he walked over the three quarter and turned the gunny sack upside down and shook the grenades into the back three quarter ton truck. And it was a big, big flash and he was gone.

• 2:53:19Speaker 06

  And I, I just saw that whole thing happening like sixty seconds before it did.

• 2:53:27Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:53:28Speaker 06

  So I started paying attention to stuff. Uh, if I started, if I'd be sitting out on the ground leaning against the, I don't know, the uh, sandbag wall or something, reading a book. And I get this funny feeling, I would get up and walk into the bunker. And we'd get hit with a mortar, a couple mortar rounds. Things like that. And guys started noticing that. So if I got up and went somewhere, they'd all get up and go with me. You know, like I went in a bunker, the bunker get really crowded with guys coming in. Things like that.

• 2:54:10Speaker 06

  And so they said, "Well, you seem to know when something's gonna happen."

• 2:54:14Shawn Ryan?

  So you had articulated this?

• 2:54:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was thinking that stuff anyway. So, when I went and read this data, this is many years later, I'm doing it for the general. And I went back and told him that I thought there was a threat buried in it. I was serious, because there were a couple documents in there.

• 2:54:39Shawn Ryan?

  Is this the table with all this?

• 2:54:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, the table with a mound of stuff on it. There was only maybe two or three documents in there that I read that I took very seriously, because they were, one was from Russia, two were from China, I think, and one may have been Czech or something. But it was research that they had been doing on combat vets, where they would know things. And that resonated with me. And I thought, "Well, if they're researching that for possible use as a collection tool or a casually preventive tool of some kind, that's important."

• 2:55:22Speaker 06

  And I thought, "If they're doing it, we should be doing it too, or it would be a threat against us at some point in the future." And I just told the general that. So, next thing I knew, he's sending me out to SRI to evaluate it, because he wanted to know more about it. And of course, when I went out there, I had a result where I had, they said, "Oh." I said, "So what is this remote viewing stuff?" And they said, "Oh, well, rather than try to explain it, why don't you just do a few and then you'll understand what it's all about."

• 2:56:01Speaker 06

  So I did six of those in a two or three day period.

• 2:56:05Shawn Ryan?

  Were you skeptical at all?

• 2:56:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, very. I didn't understand it.

• 2:56:12Speaker 06

  In fact, the first one I did, I went into this windowless room on the third floor of the radio physics lab with Russell Targ, who worked there. And we sat there for thirty minutes just talking. And I said, so what it, okay, what is this stuff? And he said, well, just give it another few minutes. And after some time, he said, okay. It's nine o'clock and Hal Puthoff is gone somewhere. Well, we, it's randomly chosen. We don't know where he is. I don't know where he is. Nobody knows.

• 2:56:50Speaker 06

  Describe what he's seeing and where he's standing. And I said, okay, how do I do that? Says, well, what pops in your head? And so I described a, I described a place with thousands of crystals. Said crystals everywhere. They're all beautiful crystals. Sunlight goes through them, you know, splays out in different colors.

• 2:57:22Speaker 06

  And there's like a building there, but it's like a pillow. It's built like this, like a big pillow. And he said, are there any distinctive colors? And I said, yeah, one, everything's white. Everything white.

• 2:57:41Speaker 06

  Well, almost everything. And he says, well, what's the other color? And I said, well, that pillow is a different color. It has red. No, no, it's white. No, no, it's red. And he said, okay, Joe, you gotta settle on one or the other, red or white.

• 2:58:04Speaker 06

  Okay, it's white with kind of a red in it. No, no, it's red with kind of a white in it. And he started getting angry with me. He said, "Just tell me what color the building is." I said, "Okay, okay, here it comes, you ready? Red hyphen white slash white hyphen red. That's the color." End quotes. And he said, "That's not a color." I said, "It is now, learn to live with it." That's what I actually said. And so, we get a call. Hal Plooff tells him where we are, where he is. So, we get in the staff car and we ride out there.

• 2:58:48Speaker 06

  Russell Targ and I. With a driver, because he's legally blind. And I would ride with him if he was driving. So, we get there. And what it is, it's a... It's right on the bay and it's a place where they process seawater for salt. So, mounds of salt everywhere. And salt's a white crystal, crystalline form. And in the center of all this white, mounds of white salt, is a Quonset hut. And it's enamelled white.

• 2:59:27Speaker 06

  But rust is bleeding through all over it from this heavy salt content. And Russell's standing there at the entry where we walked in. He's just standing there and he's staring and he said, "That's about a perfect color that you gave it." So, that's one of the first place matches I got. Later, when it was independently judged.

• 2:59:50Shawn Ryan?

  Are you doing this? I mean, how does it, how does it? What is the experience like? They tell you Hal Plooff's standing in a spot. We don't know where he is, describe it. You go, "Hal." They say, "Just tell us what pops in your head."

• 3:00:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:00:09Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, are your eyes open?

• 3:00:10Speaker 06

  That's what's popping in my head.

• 3:00:11Shawn Ryan?

  Your eyes open? Are we, are we like right now?

• 3:00:14Speaker 06

  We're talking right now.

• 3:00:16Shawn Ryan?

  And it's this image just...

• 3:00:17Speaker 06

  It's just popping in my head. It's like, uh...

• 3:00:21Shawn Ryan?

  How clear is it?

• 3:00:22Speaker 06

  Clear as a bell.

• 3:00:25Shawn Ryan?

  Like you're there.

• 3:00:26Speaker 06

  Like you're there.

• 3:00:29Speaker 06

  Only you don't know exactly what it is. You, you.

• 3:00:36Speaker 06

  Millions of crystals in piles everywhere. So the, the tiny little salt crystals are looking big to me. But there's big mounds of them. Okay, you understand? Just it's sort of distorted a little bit.

• 3:00:52Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:00:53Speaker 06

  But what you could say about it is absolutely clear. Mounds of crystals everywhere. Well, that's what salt is. And the color was bleeding, literally. The red was just this wavery kind of stuff bleeding through the, the enamel from years of sitting next to the salt, I guess.

• 3:01:17Shawn Ryan?

  Can you see the visualizations from different angles?

• 3:01:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:01:22Shawn Ryan?

  Can you walk through them?

• 3:01:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:01:24Shawn Ryan?

  Can you touch them?

• 3:01:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:01:27Shawn Ryan?

  And you can feel them?

• 3:01:28Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 3:01:30Speaker 06

  And I, I think where the mistakes made is in the term remote viewing. That implies seeing it.

• 3:01:39Speaker 06

  You kind of aren't seeing it, but you are. What it is, it's a compilation of all of your senses. Most people go into remote viewing thinking, I'm going to see something. And so they're totally and completely dependent on their eyes.

• 3:01:58Speaker 06

  It's not just your vision. It's your smell. It's your taste. It's your feeling. It's, it's your emotions about it. It's everything that you could possibly sense if you were standing in the middle of it. Everything you could possibly say about it. That's right.

• 3:02:22Speaker 06

  But it's as though you don't know, you've never seen it before in your whole life. You understand what I'm saying? Uh huh. It's kind of masked that way. So where they, where they make a mistake is they make a mistake in naming things or having the need to say what it is. No, nobody wants to know what it is. They want descriptors of it that come to you based on your senses, all of your senses. So.

• 3:02:58Speaker 06

  If, if I'm doing a target and, and let's say the, I'm just gonna throw out a hypothetical. Let's say it's a CIA guy and he wants to know what this spy, this spy was caught in South Africa and turned over to our country and he's a Russian spy. And when he was caught, they haven't been able to determine how he encrypted his messages going back to Russia. That's more important than catching the spy. Okay? So they need to know that. So they come to us with that task. Tell us how he encrypted his messages. So they might write that out.

• 3:03:42Speaker 06

  How did the spy from South Africa encrypt his messages? And they put it in a double wrapped, opaque envelope and they put A on it. And I go in a room and they throw the envelope with A on it on a table and they say, tell us about A. And I just sit there and think about it and what pops in my head, I tell them. But you don't know what's in the envelope? I have no idea what's in the envelope. It doesn't matter.

• 3:04:13Speaker 06

  What happened over time, as an example, initially, they knew they couldn't send somebody to a place in Russia that they want to know about. So, how do we get that? Well, we could use GPS locations. So they would write out the GPS site, and they would give that to the viewer. And I was nailing GPS sites like crazy. So they said, "Obviously, Joe has an eidetic memory, and he's memorized important GPS locations in Russia." No, that's not possible. There's too many.

• 3:04:54Speaker 06

  What is actually happening is, I'm actually getting to the target without the GPS site. So to prove it, we said, "Okay, if you believe that, take the GPS locations. Put them in a double-wrapped opaque envelope you can't see through. Don't say anything, just throw the blank envelope on the table." And guess what? You still get the same target. Okay? So, inevitably, somebody carrying a target from the CIA would show up at our office, and they'd go, "Oh, jeez, I left the envelope on my desk at Langley."

• 3:05:36Speaker 06

  And we'd say, "Okay, write down the target and the envelope I left on my desk at Langley." And guess what? Still works. So, it's something else gets you to the target. What we think it is, and I wrote a paper on this 35 years ago, it's intention, attention to detail about the target, and expectation for outcome.

• 3:06:05Speaker 06

  And if you stop and think about it, if you don't have those three things, your job, no matter what it is in the world, is not gonna work. Those are the three things you absolutely have to have.

• 3:06:18Shawn Ryan?

  Can you say those again, please?

• 3:06:20Speaker 06

  Intention, attention to detail, and expectation for outcome. If you have solidified those three things, talked about them with the group of people you work with, I guarantee you success in the world, no matter what it is you're doing. Doesn't matter. That's how humans operate. It's how we think, it's where we go with our head, it's what gets us there. It's in everything we do, and nobody wants to believe it. And when I wrote the paper thirty-five years ago, they said, "Nobody cares about this paper."

• 3:07:01Speaker 06

  Today, they're saying, "Oh, maybe it's one of the top three most seminal papers ever written." Why? Because every manufacturing company in the world, if they don't pay attention to that, they don't succeed. Every company in the world where they do original thought, or creation, or construction, or whatever, they don't follow those rules, they're not gonna succeed. There's nothing that we do as human beings that will ever happen if we don't pay attention to those three things. That's a simple recipe for how psychic functioning works. It's the same thing. It's where original thought is generated.

• 3:07:45Speaker 06

  It comes out of our mind, it's something we've never done before, it's new, it's creative, it's, "No one's ever thought of this, how could this possibly have not been thought of?" Same place. Comes out of the same place. So why wouldn't original thought about a target somewhere not happen at the same time, with the same strength, as it does with a psychic functioning person, as someone going over tons of information, trying to analyze their way through to an answer? It's the same thing. No difference.

• 3:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  Did you know that you were the first one to be implemented into the program?

• 3:08:36Speaker 06

  Yes, I knew I was the first one that was recruited.

• 3:08:40Shawn Ryan?

  Had they articulated why you?

• 3:08:43Speaker 06

  No, they just, what they did is they said, they let it happen by course. What they did is they went out and they looked at, um, they went out to all the commanders that they knew and they said, "Give us the names of all the people that you have working for you that seem to always come up with the answer, seem to always be the right person in the right, seem to be the most creative people in answering the problems you have to face, no matter what it is." And they came back with, I don't know, 1,300 people or 1,500 people in INSCOM.

• 3:09:27Speaker 06

  Then out of that, they said, "Okay, uh, we want to review the top 20% of those people." So they went through and they weeded out a whole bunch of stuff and they came to, uh, maybe 130 people. They started interviewing everybody.

• 3:09:46Speaker 06

  And it reached a point where they had, uh, maybe 30 people were coming out on top. I happened to be in the 30 people.

• 3:09:56Speaker 06

  I think that was more to do with General Roy sending me there and saying, "I think this is a guy that'd be a good recruit."

• 3:10:06Speaker 06

  By virtue of the fact that, that he had brought me back, made me want, put me in charge of my MOS, he did that because of my history, I think, because of the field reports, everything that anybody had ever heard of me about. I spent more time overseas, I did six and a half hardship tours. Nobody does that unless they love what they're doing. And so, he sent my name in. So I came out in the top 30. And then Russell Targ and how it put off came from SRI to Fort Meade. And we were personally interviewed by each one of them.

• 3:10:48Speaker 06

  Hal Puthoff and Russell had decided that since I had the six results I had and from my interview, that I absolutely had to be in the three people they were going to choose. They were going to only choose three people because that's what they said their funding could cover. When they did the interviews, they kept coming up with six names. Well, the government said, no, we're not going to give you any more money than we're giving you. So they said, okay, we'll do it for six people. So they collected the six of us and we all went to ASRI and learned more about remote

• 3:11:31Speaker 06

  fueling and Katie bar the door. That's what happened. We started getting tasked. Originally, it was supposed to be a three-year project. First year recruitment. It took about a year to do that. Second year was training and training consisted of doing it over and over and over and over and over because nobody knew how to train this stuff. It was practice. See who got better, who's who didn't, that sort of thing. All six of us got better at it. I had 24 straight failures. Really? Yeah. My ego got in the way and I knew that and I it just took a while for me to beat it back. How did you control it?

• 3:12:16Speaker 06

  You don't. You give it another job to do. You got I give mine math problems. I give it thoughts that I got to work through while I'm doing a remote fueling. I don't let the ego play. What what happens with many people is they have a resounding success the first time. And the reason why is the ego goes, I don't know what's going on here. I've never been exposed to this before, so I'm going to step out of this and see what happens. I am not going to fail.

• 3:12:52Speaker 06

  Ego steps out, resounding success. The ego jumps back in and goes, okay, I know what's going on now. I'm in charge. Failure, failure, failure, failure. Cause the ego thinks it knows what it's doing and it doesn't have a clue. So you gotta keep the ego busy. And you can sidestep it, you know? Push it over here and have it do something else that egos are good at. While you're doing the viewing. And that's kind of a split mental function that I do. I still do it. I've done this for better than forty-four years now.

• 3:13:36Speaker 06

  And I still fight battles with my ego. You can't have an ego and do remote viewing. What is the ego? Ego? I think that's a protective part of us that looks out for our benefit. Where does it come from? Where does it come from? Competitive side of man. It's our need to be on top, be the best. Do the one thing that we do the best or whatever you wanna call it. Be the producer, be the guy who generates the most, however you wanna look at it.

• 3:14:18Speaker 06

  It's, you gotta be on top. It's counterproductive in remote viewing. It's counterproductive in a lot of things, actually. What I learned by being in intelligence for as many years is by the time I got to remote viewing, I had already learned that

• 3:14:45Speaker 06

  Nobody knows who I am. When I do something and it works out really, really well, it's because nobody knows who I am and never will know who I am. That doesn't matter. What matters is success in the job. In other words, if part of your function is to keep whole units from being decimated in combat, that's what you do. And you don't take credit for it. You don't want credit for it because it will erode your job quality. It erodes the very function that you're out there trying to do. I

• 3:15:31Speaker 06

  I always, I never, I don't think two times in my life did I get a direct order to do anything as an intelligence guy. I saw the job, I saw the problem, and I did it. I didn't ask for permission. I didn't have somebody tell me to go do it. I just went and did it. I've always done that because that's how I was brought up in the intelligence business. I had good trainers. I had people with me who said, "No, no, no, you don't get credit for this. There are no awards here. Your job, that's your job, keeping these guys alive by giving them the information they need, doing what they need to stay alive in the field."

• 3:16:16Speaker 06

  It's like somebody said to me once, "Oh, well, you did a lot of recon, so you really know what combat's all about." I said, "No, no, no, recon is you don't get discovered. Nobody knows you've been there. You're good at hiding. There's no combat there." Yeah. You stay alive for other people. You know? I've been in places where I watched the NVA going by me to the battle. And I was down in the corner going, "And you got another route coming over the hill," you know?

• 3:16:51Speaker 06

  That's stupid.

• 3:16:58Shawn Ryan?

  At what point did it become the Stargate program?

• 3:17:04Speaker 06

  Well, let's see. It was Gondola Wish, then it was Grill Flame. It was Grill Flame until we got added by President Carter.

• 3:17:16Speaker 06

  President Carter stood up in front of a bunch of news people and said, "You know that 2U-122 Bear Bomber we've been looking for, that disappeared two years ago? Everybody's been looking for it, but we found it. And we've turned it over entirely to the Russians."

• 3:17:36Speaker 06

  And one of the reporters said, "How did you find it?" And he said, "We used our psychics." And he was holding in his arm, a green folder with a red stripe, and it said Grill Flame on it.

• 3:17:51Shawn Ryan?

  Cat's out of the bag.

• 3:17:52Speaker 06

  Hour later,

• 3:17:55Speaker 06

  everything changed. And we became Center Lane. So we were Center Lane for a while, until somebody else, I think it was, we had a congressman by the name of Rose. Everybody called him Rubber Lips Rose. Because you couldn't tell him anything that wasn't on the news an hour later.

• 3:18:17Speaker 06

  So, he started talking about us. Center Lane disappeared, and Sunstreak appeared. And so on and so forth. We went through like, six or seven name changes. And somewhere in there, NSCOM divorced itself of the program. Because A, it couldn't fund it, B, it had been supplying the bodies

• 3:18:45Speaker 06

  out of MOS. I was 999 the whole time I was in the unit.

• 3:18:54Speaker 06

  So...

• 3:18:59Speaker 06

  It was turned over from INSCOM, it was turned over to the Defense Intelligence Agency, DIA. DIA took it over because they provided the huge amount of money to keep it going. They were also wanting to take charge of it because by that point, this is right when I exited, by the way, by that point, it was, uh, not being managed very well. So, DIA took it over. It became a bigger headache in management for them. So, there were a lot of problems with it.

• 3:19:39Speaker 06

  So, in the end, it was the CIA that was told, Congress told the CIA, "We want you to take it over completely, turn it totally black and bury it. Make it go away from the public eye. This has got to be so secret, no one ever knows about it or asks any questions about it." And the CIA said, "No. We're not gonna do that." And the reason that we're not gonna do that is because you, Congress, has just raked us over the coals for two years over the Project MKUltra, where we use psychedelics for interrogation purposes. Why?

• 3:20:22Speaker 06

  Because they gave it to one of their own people at a party, and the guy thought he could fly and went out on a nine-story building in downtown DC and splattered all over the sidewalk to the disgruntlement of the CIA, his family, and a number of other people. So, they just, just lambasted the CIA for that. So, the CIA said, "No, it's not gonna happen."

• 3:20:55Speaker 06

  Congress went back to CIA and said, "You got this all wrong. You don't tell us what you will or won't do. We tell you what you will do." And so the CIA said, "Okay, we'll take over managerial authority of it, but only after a study's done on its condition." So they had two people come in to do the study. A woman by the name of Jessica Utz, who was the number one analyst, statistical analyst in the world, almost. Okay, never mind, America. Probably the top five anyway from the world. And a guy named, I can't remember right now, sorry.

• 3:21:38Speaker 06

  He was a professor who had been one of our worst detractors all done. He said, "This isn't real, it's a lie, it's all BS. And it's not real and the government's being taken down a false trail." He was their counter to her. So they both did a study of material that the CIA gave them the study, which was one year of select, hand-selected material that we supposedly reacted to.

• 3:22:21Speaker 06

  And it was all the, if you had to pick the top seven worst possible results, that's what they gave them the study. And yet, the statistical analyst came up with the idea that, based on that material alone, it was better than the reason you take an aspirin every day to prevent heart attack.

• 3:22:47Speaker 06

  For a lot of reasons. The biggest reason is the people who have studied it aren't wedded to it. The people who cause you to take an aspirin every day to prevent heart attack are all aspirin producers. So she gave these very brilliant arguments, still found statistical reasons why it was supported, even on the minimal amount of material given to them to review. The professor, on the other hand, same old story, held his view that it was

• 3:23:28Speaker 06

  a waste of time, never should have happened in the first place, blah, blah, blah. And didn't give any reasons for it at all. So what they did is the CIA dumped her report, kept his, presented it to the Congress and said, this is why we're not accepting it. And Congress said, well, then shut it down. So they did. Primary reason, I will tell you, is nobody wants to be caught dead standing next to a psychic. It's political dynamite. Mm hmm. You're toast. You get caught, you get caught standing next to a psychic, you're toast. And the example they give, President Reagan's wife talking to an astrologer, at

• 3:24:13Speaker 06

  the same time, we're working for him. They're crucifying his wife. And we're advising 15 of the 17 largest intelligence agencies in America. Wow. I mean, that's nuts. Now, I have to say, we did over 1,200 remote viewings in support of the CIA. And they are the ones that kept coming back for more, for like 15 years. And they said it didn't work.

• 3:24:54Speaker 06

  You know, if you had a restaurant, I'm gonna give you the example that Dr. May gives. If you had a restaurant and you invited the top fifteen food critics to your restaurant the day you opened it, and thirteen of them came back the next day, and fifteen came back the day after, and twelve came back the day after that, and so on and so forth, for the next fifteen years, would you say it was a pretty good restaurant? Yes, I would. You're damn right you would.

• 3:25:27Speaker 06

  Nobody will stand next to a psychic though, so what can I say? And yet, we still had almost every agency we supported say and review and talk about everything we did to support them, and it's all available now.

• 3:25:46Speaker 06

  We published the science, we, Pregnant We, uh, Laboratories for Fundamental Research, published the science of remote viewing in four volumes, nine hundred and eleven pages of volume, double columns both sides, tissue thin paper, one point four million words. There is more science backing up remote viewing than any other subject in history. Wow. Will anybody read those? No. All they wanna do is say, "I wouldn't believe it if you told me it was real."

• 3:26:26Speaker 06

  And yet, where are we? Buried our head in the sand. Do you think terrorists can't do this? No, they can. And in fact, we have proof, or there is extant proof, I know of, I can't talk about it, but I will tell you, there's extant proof that there are terrorist organizations teaching people trying to use it, and there are foreign countries using it to our detriment.

• 3:26:56Speaker 06

  Our allies have tried to use it and have failed because no one sends them to the people who have the science backing it up, who know how to use it, who have made all the mistakes, opened all the doors, all the windows to getting it where it operates proficiently. They don't ask those people. So.

• 3:27:25Shawn Ryan?

  At what point did you, we'll get into that in a little bit, what is one of the first, was the Skylab one of the first big predictions you made?

• 3:27:37Speaker 06

  I made, I actually made that prediction, I think it was about six months prior to the Skylab coming out of orbit, and I did it before, before I ever knew the existence of the program that they were trying to put together. I did it because someone said, they don't know where those things are going to come down. And I said, oh, they should. In all probability, this is where it's going to hit. And I said it was the left central area of Australia's desert. And then it would strike at a certain point, and there'd be a debris field that would go out for so many thousands of kilometers.

• 3:28:22Shawn Ryan?

  Rewinding real quick, Skylab was, was, was it the first?

• 3:28:26Speaker 06

  First big lab that we had in orbit. And it had a lot of parts of it that would, we knew would not self-destruct when they came back in through the atmosphere. And we were concerned that some of the larger parts of it, like the, I think the atomic power plant, and stuff like that, was going to crash in a big city somewhere, maybe kill thousands of people. Nobody knew. The scientists couldn't predict it. Its decaying orbit was changing dramatically every so many hours because of its rotation in orbit. So they knew the decay rate and everything, but they just didn't know where it was going to re-enter.

• 3:29:10Speaker 06

  And where it re-entered and its attitude on re-entry would determine its crash point. So.

• 3:29:18Speaker 06

  I think one of the large sections landed in the Indian Ocean. Thousands of miles from where the predominant part of it hit, which is in the deserts of Australia. And the only thing I had wrong, I had said the hours and days. I missed it by a certain number of days, like a handful of days or hours or something. And I had it reversed because I had it going around the world this way and it was going around the world this way or something like that. So my debris field was where it would actually impact and where I had it impacting was the debris field.

• 3:30:00Shawn Ryan?

  Well, from what I understand, you're only about 60 miles off and it was a one in six million 646,000 chance.

• 3:30:10Speaker 06

  I don't know where that comes from, but I can tell you I was about 60 miles off.

• 3:30:15Shawn Ryan?

  That's.

• 3:30:16Speaker 06

  Not bad.

• 3:30:17Shawn Ryan?

  That is a.

• 3:30:18Speaker 06

  But that's not the only place. I mean, it was a big chunk of it came down in the Indian Ocean. So there were other places where chunks of it came down, but the predominant part of it came down in the deserts of Australia, which is perfect. I mean, didn't hurt anybody other than a lot of rabbits, maybe. Or kangaroos or something. I don't know.

• 3:30:41Shawn Ryan?

  And then there is the submarine incident.

• 3:30:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:30:46Shawn Ryan?

  Can you go into detail about that, please?

• 3:30:50Speaker 06

  The target was, um.

• 3:30:55Speaker 06

  At the time, my understanding was it was the largest building that existed in Russia, north of the, uh, or in the world, actually, north of the Arctic Circle. It was a cold, what they call a cold harbor. Uh, frigid harbor harbor. They always had these big icebreakers sitting outside the harbor.

• 3:31:19Speaker 06

  They were building something in this building, but it was not connected to the harbor. So they didn't believe it was a ship or anything. But there was a lot of material going in off of railroad cars and stuff. There's a lot of heavy guards around it. They couldn't hire somebody to sneak a camera in and take one picture. They, they just didn't know what was happening inside this building.

• 3:31:47Speaker 01

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• 3:32:49Speaker 06

  So, I and one of my best friends, he's dead now. He died during the project. His name was Hartley Trent. Hartley Trent and I worked at Target. And we both pretty much said the same thing, really. That it was a very, very large submarine, huge submarine. I remember somebody asked me in one of my sessions, how big is it? You keep saying big, huge. Well, how big is it? I said, well, it's about thirty-three feet or thirty-three, thirty feet shy of the length of a Soviet aircraft carrier. And probably seventy-five, seventy feet wide. Really huge.

• 3:33:33Speaker 06

  I said, it's like two big half submarines being stuck together this way.

• 3:33:39Speaker 06

  And uh, there was a number of other things we said about it. I can't remember all the details now, but um, the most important point was up until that point, all the Soviet submarines that carried ICBMs carried them straight up and down. So they had to stop the launch. That was like an eighteen minute window where they were really vulnerable. This went away as a vulnerability because this new submarine I said had slanted tubes. So they could launch on the move. And uh, there were some other things. I can't remember now,

• 3:34:21Speaker 06

  but um, anyway, Hartley and I pretty much agreed on a lot of that. And, but I have to tell you, he was targeted separately from me and I was targeted separately from him. And we never spoke to each other about it because we were under orders during remote viewing to never discuss what we were targeting in any way, shape or form because they didn't want tainted information going across viewers. So I didn't know he was reporting what I was reporting and vice versa. Um, we sent, sent the report to the National Security Council

• 3:35:05Speaker 06

  because that's where uh, it was being targeted. The National Security Council had been targeting it for two years. Couldn't get any information on the building at all. So we sent a report in. Uh, it was carried in by Admiral by the name of Jake Stewart. I think his first name was Jake. I might be wrong there, but I do know his last name was Stewart because I had known him for some time. And he carried the report to the National Security Council, but then he brought it right back. And he said they, they won't accept it. They said

• 3:35:43Speaker 06

  this is just total fantasy. Uh, I remember talking to him about it and I asked him, why did they say it was fantasy? And he said, because.

• 3:35:57Speaker 06

  They're already centered on something like a troop carrier or something being manufactured there. And that it's not possible because it's not connected to the harbor in any way. I said, well, tell them the fantasy is going to be launched in 112 days. It actually made me angry that they just resented the information. So I said, take it back. Tell them the fantasy will be launched in 112 days. So Admiral Stewart, I guess, went by the NRO. I don't know if that's true or not, but somebody went by the NRO and had them order

• 3:36:39Speaker 06

  up a couple of overheads of the harbor 114 days out. I don't know what happened at the National Security Council, but I do know they didn't care about our report. So they probably threw it on a shelf and ignored it. 114 days later, when they took pictures of the harbor, a channel was cut to the sea. The Typhoon-class submarine TK-089, first ever built prototype, was parked in the harbor tied up to a Soviet aircraft carrier. I think they were using the aircraft carrier to blind anybody sailing by the port so they

• 3:37:19Speaker 06

  couldn't see or anybody who was looking into the harbor. And it was about 30 to 33 feet shy of the length of a Soviet aircraft carrier. Wow. It was a monster. Now, what I found out later, and nobody knew, is they built eight more of them and no one ever saw or heard of them. So where were they built? And how did they launch those that nobody knew about? When I was in Russia with Ed May and after Perestroika and the wall came down and all

• 3:37:58Speaker 06

  of that, I met the chief of the Red Army or whatever they call him. And he had me, he wanted me to sign a book that I written where I talked about the submarine. Because when they declassified everything, CIA declassified everything, I talked about it in one of my books.

• 3:38:20Speaker 06

  And he thought it was disinformation for six years. That's what he told me. And I asked him why, and he said, because it was in your book. And I didn't know about any submarine.

• 3:38:34Speaker 06

  And so I said, then why do you want me to sign the book? And he said, because I just found out it was real.

• 3:38:41Speaker 06

  So I said, so I don't get this. How do you know it wasn't disinformation? And he said, he did this. He looked around and he leaned forward and he said, I know because our spy in your DIA told me it was real. I went, oh geez, what do I do now?

• 3:39:03Speaker 06

  I said, will you give me the initials? He said, oh, no, no, no, I couldn't do that. They'd bury me under the front steps of the FSB. So I said, it's okay. I'll let you go to sleep tonight. Get it from your head. That's all I could think of the same. And he ran out of the room. They came back in and grabbed his book, which I had signed.

• 3:39:25Speaker 06

  And, and then the, the general that I was, uh, that Ed and I were talking to said, you gotta stop scaring my generals, Joe. He said, you just gotta stop doing that. I said, okay, I won't do it anymore.

• 3:39:40Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 3:39:42Shawn Ryan?

  What, so when you're tasked to do these things, how do they approach?

• 3:39:48Speaker 06

  Well, I, they just tell me, uh, Joe, you're up. And I go in a room,

• 3:39:56Speaker 06

  which they're taping and monitoring everything. And I sit down with a monitor and the monitor throws an envelope on the table. Neither he or she nor I know what's in the envelope. In fact, nobody knows what's in the envelope except the tasker, who talked to one person, which is my boss in the remote viewing unit. And he puts the envelope together. And so nobody knows. And that way you don't get leading questions. You, it goes wherever it goes. Now what the monitor is there for.

• 3:40:36Speaker 06

  Because the monitor brings to bear left brain actions, like questions that might come up. In the interaction between the monitor and I, I might say something like, "Well, it's this submarine and it's really huge," and he might say, "How huge is it?" You know, and I'll say, "Oh, thirty-three feet shy of the length of a Soviet aircraft carrier." Well, that elicits more information than I might be giving at the time. So you get way more information out of the interaction between two people.

• 3:41:14Speaker 06

  One who's being left brain and trying to stay in the world of reality, if you will, and the remote viewer who's in their own world, trying to figure out what the sensations are and everything going on in their head, telling them what to say. So what we found over the years was there were many occasions when that monitor would ask exactly the right question to elicit the response that answered the whole problem.

• 3:41:52Speaker 06

  So they're both being psychic, just that one thinks they're not and one thinks they are. Understand? Uh huh. So people, when they interact, don't realize it. But some are being psychic and some are not. It's a human trait. It's a human condition. Psychic functioning is normal with human beings. It's the norm. The difficulty is, I think, comes out of the fact that it's an ancient capability. It's a survival mechanism that has existed since the beginning of human.

• 3:42:34Speaker 06

  And as at the very beginning, we didn't have a language of detail where we could interact together and speak in great detail with one another about some subject. Or when we were going into a valley to hunt, we maybe went to our, uh, our guide, our, uh...

• 3:43:00Speaker 06

  Which doctor or, you know, leader, whoever, who was probably the most psychic person in the entire group, who said, "Hunt on the south section of that valley." And we would hunt there and find plenty of game, where if we hunted anywhere else, there wouldn't be. Or if we said, "Okay, we're going back to our old hunting grounds. There's three caves there. Which one should we meet at? Meet on the westernmost one. Don't meet on the other two, because cave bears are living there. If they come back and find us there, they will kill us all." So, it's a survival mechanism.

• 3:43:45Speaker 06

  People understood what their minds were telling them about their environment, their environment and everything. They had no other way of judging it.

• 3:43:57Shawn Ryan?

  So... It makes a lot of sense. Where did we become this inefficient?

• 3:44:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, where did we steer off of that?

• 3:44:12Shawn Ryan?

  Because with that, there's no, there's no need for language.

• 3:44:15Speaker 06

  Right, there's no need for language. And why? Because we lived in very small family units. The biggest tribe of people was probably nine, 10 people, all birthed out of the same families. And so, we were all intimately related to one another, fighting for survival. And so, we could actually read one another's minds, or the very thoughts that others were thinking in our group. Why did that go away? Well, because small groups started banding together, because there is strength in numbers. And when you have strength in numbers,

• 3:44:59Speaker 06

  it trumps small units. Strength in numbers, however, opens a flaw in the reading of minds. Because now, you're reading the mind of this guy who's got this woman as his primary mate.

• 3:45:18Speaker 06

  And they're not part of your original group. And you're now reading her mind. And he's reading your mind. And you're the one that winds up with a spear in the back. So that doesn't work. So I think over time, not, not right away, but over thousands of years, what happened is we found ways for our development to change that capability from a yes, every day kind of capability to one that was less invasive. So probably somewhere in the forebrain or the colosum or something, we started building

• 3:46:01Speaker 06

  a filter there that would prevent it, prevent this occurrence from happening. And it's not a perfect filter. Stuff still gets through, but it's the outrageous screaming survival type stuff that gets through there now. You only see it, you see it in combat. You see it with policemen in dangerous situations. You see it with surgeons in surgical suites where something happens and they don't have time to pick the phone up, talk to their buddy, go and look at a medical dictionary

• 3:46:41Speaker 06

  or find out something special that's going to help them save a life. No, it's like right then, right there, you got two seconds to make a decision. They go here for it. They get it from everybody in the room and they act on it. I, I think that's the way things work now. It's an overriding need.

• 3:47:06Shawn Ryan?

  It's a, it's interesting you said this because I, I mean, me and you just met this morning at breakfast and I had a similar conversation.

• 3:47:19Shawn Ryan?

  I can't remember who it was, but they were saying you already.

• 3:47:25Shawn Ryan?

  They, it was another, it was an, it was another operator. Uh, and we were having a discussion. I can't remember what it was about, but he was talking about. We'd, we'd got on this subject and he said that he, he was saying, everybody, he believes everybody has

• 3:47:43Shawn Ryan?

  this type of ability.

• 3:47:44Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 3:47:45Shawn Ryan?

  He related it back to, he was like, remember, you know, remember in Iraq, Afghanistan, when we were clearing rooms together?

• 3:47:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:47:54Shawn Ryan?

  And he's like, and you immediately, you can pick up on the energy of who's in that room and, and.

• 3:48:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:48:01Shawn Ryan?

  And when I think of it like that, you know, I, I just, I mean, everything happens so fast.

• 3:48:06Speaker 06

  But that light shoulder tap by somebody behind you would slow you down, maybe just enough.

• 3:48:12Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:48:13Speaker 06

  That you don't round that next corner.

• 3:48:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:48:15Speaker 06

  So fast. You might glance back and you'll go.

• 3:48:20Speaker 06

  Like this or something. You just, you like feel each other.

• 3:48:24Shawn Ryan?

  You're also, but we would also, I mean, we, we just, we would call it reading the room. And so would be, you know, women, children.

• 3:48:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:48:32Shawn Ryan?

  Men, bad guys, good guys, and, and, and that is what you go off of. You go off your gut instinct, intuition, whatever you want to call it.

• 3:48:42Speaker 06

  The, the only time I saw that was at the Tet of Fatsif, when we had to clear Plaku City. I saw some of that then. Where.

• 3:48:55Speaker 06

  It's gut wrenching to kick doors in. You know, when you're going through a town or a city or a village or something, it's really.

• 3:49:04Speaker 06

  There's times when you don't have any problem kicking a door in. And then ascertaining who's inside. There's other times when you just don't want to kick that door, you know?

• 3:49:17Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:49:17Speaker 06

  It's kind of like, no, I'd, I'd rather like flashbang it first.

• 3:49:22Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:49:22Speaker 06

  Then kick the door in.

• 3:49:24Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:49:24Speaker 06

  And.

• 3:49:26Speaker 06

  It's an intuitive knowing that I need to do this.

• 3:49:30Shawn Ryan?

  So, so do you, does everybody have, can, can everybody access this? Or is it, is it, is it a gift that only certain individuals?

• 3:49:40Speaker 06

  No, I think everybody can access it. When they're in a situation where they're.

• 3:49:48Speaker 06

  Well, they're at great risk. I think that's when it comes to bear. Because they're open to it. Could everybody learn it? I think to a certain degree, yeah. And in fact, there's some evidence of that. There's a guy named Han. He wrote a book, book on this, by the way. I can't remember his first name was, his name, his last name I remember being Hand, just like your hand. And he taught a platoon of Marines. Before they went to Vietnam, taught a team of Marines, a platoon, actually.

• 3:50:27Speaker 06

  How to sense their way through a inspection of a hut or a village hut. He, he taught them in a, a mock village on booby traps. What to look for, how to smell them out, how to feel about a room, how to suss it out, that sort of thing. And a lot of it had to do with how they felt when they just put their hand on something.

• 3:50:56Speaker 06

  And they then followed that platoon of Marines in Vietnam for 14 months. And their incidents from wounds from booby traps, wounds and death from booby traps. Was 45% lower than any other platoon. And the Marines. Wow. Did they continue that training? No.

• 3:51:21Speaker 06

  Of course not. We found that if you wire these two, the index finger and this finger, just have a wire coming off these two fingers. Going to a computer.

• 3:51:35Speaker 06

  And a person's wearing a hat, pair of headsets, let's say. And they're listening to white noise, you know.

• 3:51:43Speaker 06

  Just that hiss. And they're comfortably listening to the white noise. And suddenly, there's a, uh, a bang. In that white noise. It startles them. What happens? On the recording for those two wires. Is what you get is a huge spike. And then a. Quick die off. It's their emotional response to that bang. One and a half seconds out in front of that. Is a little bump.

• 3:52:15Speaker 06

  That occurs. That little bump. Occurs every time a startling reaction is gonna occur. So he came up with the idea. You take four guys in a jeep or a five ton or a three quarter or whatever. You take three or four guys, you wire them together, you run them through a averaging box. Into a computer and the computer monitors looking for that little bump. And when it sees one of those little bumps, it lights up three. Red LEDs in the leading edge of the helmet.

• 3:52:50Speaker 06

  And the guy driving the truck or whatever. Who's operating the vehicle. Is wearing that helmet. And when those light up, he stops the brake immediately.

• 3:53:02Speaker 06

  The IED will go off in front of them. Whoa. At a broadside. Whoa. We set up. Corps of Engineers. We got a mock village, Corps of Engineers to set the IEDs unbeknownst to anybody. We wanted volunteers from the Marine Corps of the Army. To test this. And they all agreed. Up to the point of actually doing it. And everybody backed out.

• 3:53:32Speaker 06

  Why? Why did they back out? You can demonstrate it. In a lab, you can demonstrate it. Why wouldn't you test that? I have no idea.

• 3:53:44Speaker 06

  Neither do I.

• 3:53:49Speaker 06

  It's craziness. It is, it is. But all human beings have these capacities. It's, it's built into us. I mean, it's a survival mechanism. It's ancient. It goes back to the beginnings of human. It's the reason we covet the earth. We're, we're, we're in charge of the entire world now. There are no cave bears anymore, no saber-toothed tigers. The predators of humans are all gone. And we don't have long nails. We don't have extra fur. And we certainly don't have the savagery of a saber-toothed tiger.

• 3:54:28Speaker 06

  Why, why aren't we gone? Mm-hmm. They are. All the predators of humans are gone from the beginning of man to now.

• 3:54:38Speaker 06

  Except man itself. Except man is, man himself. And guess who the greater predation's coming from on man is man himself.

• 3:54:50Speaker 06

  So. Can you remote view through time? Yes. Not a problem. You, you can go back in time, you can go forward in time. And, and there's, there's some proof that no human being operates in the moment, ever. We're affected by our past, we're affected by our future. We know that to be true. We just don't know what the aperture is. We do know going into the past is way easier than going into the future. And the reason why is you go into the past.

• 3:55:29Speaker 06

  All the concepts that support action in the past, you're familiar with. Like you light a stick of dynamite, it's gonna blow up. And you know that because that concept's real. So you go into the past and you see a booby trap with dynamite. It's understandable.

• 3:55:50Speaker 06

  You go into the future, just sometimes just hours, maybe a week or two weeks or a couple months. Things happen for which no extent, there's no existing concept that supports it. An example would be, let's say we live in 1970 and we target a lab, a specific room in Sylvania Labs in 1975, where they built the first pump laser, where they got it up

• 3:56:29Speaker 06

  to enough, enough range to get punch a hole through four inches of stainless steel. Target that in 1970 and tell me how they did it. You can't. All you can do is say, "There's a beam of light going through four inches of stainless steel." "How did they do that?" Beats the hell out of me. It's like somebody sent me once, I got targeted on a, on an accelerator. And I tried to sketch it. You ever, have you ever been inside a accelerator room?

• 3:57:08Shawn Ryan?

  Not to my knowledge.

• 3:57:10Speaker 06

  You couldn't, you couldn't photograph it. Never mind sketch it. I mean, it's like, and I told a guy, I said, "I'm trying to draw this thing for two hours." And I finally said, I finally said, "Oh, to hell with this. It's an accelerator." I didn't know I could draw the goddamn thing. I mean, excuse me, but, I mean.

• 3:57:34Shawn Ryan?

  Would it be, would it be possible to manipulate the past or the future?

• 3:57:41Speaker 06

  Manipulate what again?

• 3:57:43Shawn Ryan?

  Would it be possible to manipulate time? Some things that have happened in the past or things that are going to happen in the future?

• 3:57:54Speaker 06

  I suppose you could if you had enough advanced warning on something. You could be looking for it to the point that you could use it.

• 3:58:02Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, I guess you actually have already answered my question if with the lights, you know, in the helmet.

• 3:58:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:58:08Shawn Ryan?

  And stopping it for an IED, that would be technically manipulating the future.

• 3:58:12Speaker 06

  The things we don't know is do, does that become a permanent thing? Or do people learn their way out of it? In other words,

• 3:58:23Speaker 06

  that's all fine and good. It works perfectly for, let's say, three months. And it works so well, they don't know what an IED is.

• 3:58:33Speaker 06

  And so it slowly dissolves that little bump away. And the next IED gets them all.

• 3:58:41Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 3:58:41Speaker 06

  And now you're back to, you know.

• 3:58:44Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha. I mean, you, I have a lot more of your remote viewings that I'd like to discuss, but another question that pops into my head is how, how do you keep yourself from exhaustion? Meaning,

• 3:59:00Shawn Ryan?

  I could see somebody like you becoming somebody's favorite new toy.

• 3:59:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:59:06Shawn Ryan?

  I want to know this. I want to know that. I want to know this. I need you to do this. You know, and so how, how do you, did that, that had to have happened with all the egos in DC and then within the intelligence agencies.

• 3:59:21Speaker 06

  The first occasion, and it's one of the primary reasons why I retired from the army.

• 3:59:30Speaker 06

  From

• 3:59:33Speaker 06

  mid 1982 until September 1st of 84, I was the only viewer. There were no other viewers. They brought in new people, but they were self-selected. These were people who said to the general when he asked, and that was a different general now, General Bert Stubblebine. They, whenever he asked someone, what do you think about this? They said, oh yeah, and I'm psychic.

• 4:00:05Speaker 06

  Okay. And he bought it and brought them back to the headquarters. But then they had to be trained to be psychic. And the training everybody bought was the training devised by a guy named Ingo Swan, who worked for Stanford Research Institute. He came up with a training system that was never approved by anybody. Everybody thinks it was approved by Hal Puthoff. It never was approved by Hal Puthoff. Hal Puthoff allowed him to do that. Because he needed the training system to maintain the project research.

• 4:00:45Speaker 06

  And so Ingo Swan became the trainer of the army people that were recruited by self-selection. The problem with that is there's so much wrong with that.

• 4:01:00Speaker 06

  You now have people, like I said, anybody can remote view. I teach people. I've had one person in sixteen different programs.

• 4:01:13Speaker 06

  Or possibly more, I don't know how many I've done now. Who, one person who said they couldn't remote view from the six days of training I gave them. At the end of the training, I always say to people, everybody who is totally convinced that they remote viewed during the six and a half days or six days, raise your hand. Everybody raised their hand.

• 4:01:43Speaker 06

  And I always, I always preface that by saying, it doesn't have to be great remote viewing. I'm just talking that you know for a fact that you gave some item of detail about a target that you did not have a clue about before. And that detail turned out to be correct. That would be what you call remote viewing. They all raised their hand, except for one person. And that was a reporter who was collecting data to write a report on. Uh, so I know everybody can remote view to some degree.

• 4:02:20Speaker 06

  The problem is afterwards, they don't, nobody wants to do the practice. Nobody wants to beat themselves against the wall for the next three years to be really good at it. No, that's when they start looking for the, okay, what's the easy part? When do I get the pill that I take?

• 4:02:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:02:46Speaker 06

  And I'm a master remote viewer. Would you say that about bowling? If somebody taught you how to bowl? That's my question to them. And they go, why would I do that? Bowling's fun. Well, it's the same thing.

• 4:03:04Shawn Ryan?

  How clear, I mean, what state of mind are you in when you are, what is your, do you have a, do you prepare for, for, for, for a viewing?

• 4:03:20Speaker 06

  That's a, that's a great question. That, I have what I call a cool down period. That's where I have to get all the crap out of my head. I want to be as clear headed as I can be when I start doing a problem. If I can't get all the crap out of my head, it just gets in the way. Or I can't control my ego, it gets in the way. I want to get all those things out of the way. So when I do a remote viewing, I have what I call the cool down period. It's where I, you know, just slow everything down, get as much out of my head as I can before I do a remote viewing.

• 4:04:03Shawn Ryan?

  How long does that take you?

• 4:04:05Speaker 06

  It was getting upwards of an hour and a half.

• 4:04:08Shawn Ryan?

  That's it?

• 4:04:09Speaker 06

  Well, that's long enough when you got a deputy director hanging out, waiting for his answer.

• 4:04:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:04:17Speaker 06

  They don't wait an hour and a half, I'll tell you that right now. They like want it right now.

• 4:04:22Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I just, I feel like it would take me a month to clear my head.

• 4:04:26Speaker 06

  Sometimes I wish I had a month to clear mine.

• 4:04:30Shawn Ryan?

  Me too.

• 4:04:31Speaker 06

  What, what I, I started going to the Monroe Institute many years ago. Okay.

• 4:04:40Speaker 06

  The Monroe Institute is probably the most important place I've found in my life. Because I learned, I started going there when I had this problem. And

• 4:04:54Shawn Ryan?

  Clearing your head?

• 4:04:55Speaker 06

  Clearing my head. And when it got to be an hour and a half, an hour and thirty-five minutes, I started getting a lot of difficulties from my boss in the remote viewing place at Fort Meade.

• 4:05:10Speaker 06

  He said, "Go find a way to clear your head better, faster." So I said, "Yeah, okay." The institute, the Monroe Institute, taught me very quickly how to use their technology to become calm, empty my mind, and be prepped for a remote viewing. I cut the hour and a half to literally three to five minutes.

• 4:05:39Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of technology is this?

• 4:05:41Speaker 06

  They use sound there.

• 4:05:44Speaker 06

  They use different programs to

• 4:05:50Speaker 06

  elicit that response, that calming response, that ability to see something other than the immediate moment, to see something other than who and what you are.

• 4:06:05Speaker 06

  Their, their whole, their whole premise at the institute is to help human beings discover that they are a lot more than what's encased in this, this physical body. That your spiritual nature, your whole presence on the planet, your job, everything about you is important and can be used for the betterment of human beings. And, and that's, I love the place for that. They, and they teach you how to reach out and go places you just would never choose to go in terms of development,

• 4:06:47Speaker 06

  in terms of belief, in terms of being open-minded, that sort of thing.

• 4:06:59Speaker 06

  I think maybe I like it so much because as we discussed very early on about my angst with racism and all that, there is none of that there at the institute. You go and spend a week there with twenty-two, twenty other people, and they become family. And it doesn't matter where they're from, who they are, what they do in life, how much money they have, none of that matters. It's like twenty-two human beings coming together,

• 4:07:34Speaker 06

  gifted with a belief and an understanding that they're all equal.

• 4:07:40Speaker 06

  And they all have a presence in the world, and they all have the power to change it. And they all have open minds and they can all

• 4:07:50Speaker 06

  relate in some way.

• 4:07:55Speaker 06

  I've supported the institute for as long as I've been a remote viewer.

• 4:08:02Speaker 06

  And I probably will to the day I die, because they're that good. And it's not just one individual. It's, it's everything it was created to be. And believe me, it's been a battle hanging on to that for them because enlarging it to a certain point would destroy that. Making it smaller to a certain point would destroy that. Bringing in too much ego would destroy that.

• 4:08:35Speaker 06

  Trainers have to be, have to earn their right to train there, or it would destroy that. Everything about it is in balance, or tries to be in balance. The fact that it has survived its developer, which is Robert Monroe,

• 4:08:55Speaker 06

  and my beautiful wife, and his wife, if it wasn't for those two women, he never would have succeeded. Uh, he brought the, the idea, he brought the, uh, the creativity to it. He did a lot of that stuff. He obviously designed the sounds that are used, the technologies, that sort of thing.

• 4:09:20Speaker 06

  But he was like a rough cop that wouldn't have worked if it hadn't been for his wife, who was a beautiful, wonderful woman in her own right, who was very creative and a designer at heart and took care of the softer things, to include softening him a little bit. And my wife, who I'm proud to say was the director, actually was the first person who started it with him. So she was the chief cook, bottle washer, letter writer, drove around in a truck with a helper with the mattresses in the back, you know, that kind of thing. Wore a lot of hats.

• 4:10:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, right. If it wasn't for the effort of those three people, it wouldn't be what it is today. So. Sounds like a fascinating place. I go there and reduce my cooldown from an hour and a half to three to five minutes. I'm not kidding you, the technology sticks. Wow. But Bob Monroe made a tape for me with his sounds and I used it for quite a while. And you know, tapes stretch after a while. They're no longer the same. And my tape started stretching.

• 4:10:44Speaker 06

  So I went into him one morning and I said, I was there for one of those elongated weekends. I said, Bob, my tape stretched, it's no good anymore. So he took it out of my hands and threw it in the trash can and walked away. And I said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, Bob, I need another tape. He said, no, you don't. He said, close your eyes and remember what it sounded like. And I did, and you know, today you can wire me up and I can still do that and you'll see the, the hemisync, hemispheric synchronization occurring in my brain. Once you have that effect embedded in you, it doesn't go away. Wow.

• 4:11:28Speaker 06

  You can keep regenerating it just by closing your eyes and remember what it sounded like. That's how I do my cooldowns. And some of my remote viewings that I got into, I wouldn't have been able to do without it because the stuff I did in Japan, looking for missing people. Typical remote viewing for that would be sometimes six to eight hours. Start at eight thirty or nine in the morning and wouldn't stop, straight through. All I did was drink ice water the whole time.

• 4:12:05Shawn Ryan?

  Are you mentally and physically exhausted after a session?

• 4:12:09Speaker 06

  No more than you would be if you were intently working on something for six straight hours.

• 4:12:16Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:12:17Speaker 06

  Okay, same exhaustion. Somebody asked me once, can you do remote viewing when you have the flu? I don't know, how effective are you at your desk when you have the flu?

• 4:12:27Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:12:28Speaker 06

  It's the same thing. It, it, it's no more difficult, no less difficult than a normal job.

• 4:12:34Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:12:35Speaker 06

  Once you get used to it.

• 4:12:37Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:12:38Speaker 06

  You beat yourself up initially.

• 4:12:40Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think that you have, do you continue to, do you continue to hone your skills and become better, or have you plateaued?

• 4:12:52Speaker 06

  No, I've never plateaued and I've never lost capability.

• 4:12:59Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:13:00Speaker 06

  Originally, everybody thought somebody who was psychic would be very psychic to a peak, and then he would slowly lose it. There was, uh, this kind of slow failure rate. I've been, I, well, I did it for forty-four years. It took three attempts at retirement, but I finally stopped doing it. Uh, I think that was mainly because of my, my habituation of going, yes, I'll take care of that. That finally went away in me because it was becoming more invasive and more tiring than not. So, uh, you know, I'm, I'm ready to let somebody else step up.

• 4:13:44Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:13:45Speaker 06

  The problem is...

• 4:13:48Speaker 06

  Nobody wants to work at it as hard. I won't lie to anybody. I've had to hammer at it for forty-four years. It's not, not magic. It doesn't happen. And then you're magically gifted. No, you, you have to hammer at it over and over and over all the time. And if you stop for like a month to clear your head, you gotta go back to square two and start over. Okay. Because you lose that rhythm that's in that.

• 4:14:27Speaker 06

  So, no, it's hard. I, I wouldn't lie to anybody. The problem is, everybody wants a magic pill. They, they don't wanna hammer away at it. Yeah. Now, I've met one or two really gifted people that could be world-class remote viewers. They don't wanna spend the time on it. Actually, they can't. They have families, you know, they have to support their families. When I retired, of course, the army paid for everything when I was doing it.

• 4:14:58Speaker 06

  When I retired from the army,

• 4:15:02Speaker 06

  I started, well, I, there's that proverbial ego stepping in. My wife and I started a company called Intuitive Intelligence Applications. It's incorporated now thirty-something, thirty-eight years or something in Virginia.

• 4:15:23Speaker 06

  We started the company thinking that, that we could make a living doing remote viewing for people in companies and that sort of thing.

• 4:15:36Speaker 06

  And I remember when we started, the one thing we said to each other, "Well, we'll give it a year and see whether it's gonna work or not."

• 4:15:48Speaker 06

  Thirty some years ago.

• 4:15:52Speaker 06

  And it worked great. And, and

• 4:15:57Speaker 06

  the, the way it's worked is, you know, it's been up and down, up and down, up and down, but because I don't advertise anywhere, it's all word of mouth. One person to another. Most of my corporate stuff, which has been very supportive, I mean, very supportive, was

• 4:16:25Speaker 06

  was because I guaranteed total anonymity to any of my customers. And the reason why is because most corporations I did work for had CEOs and CFOs that were publicly owned companies. And if they knew a psychic was advising their CEO or their CFO,

• 4:16:49Speaker 06

  bad things would happen. So we just didn't tell anybody. I was like hired as the information manager or something. And there were a couple of companies I worked for off and on for fifteen or twenty years. And I have to tell you, I made a ton of money from them. And

• 4:17:11Speaker 06

  there are a couple of individuals I worked very hard for for a number of years.

• 4:17:18Speaker 06

  One, one guy wrote books about things like the Titanic and stuff like that. I did the remote viewing for him. It turned out my remote viewing was more accurate than written history. Cause he went as far as going back to the records of the interviews with the people that were rescued. And found that things I said in my reports were accurate, things written about it by history, historians were wrong.

• 4:17:47Speaker 06

  Like there were two guys in the tower together when they hit the iceberg.

• 4:17:55Speaker 06

  One guy in the tower. The other guy was in the kitchen getting a tin of tea. And didn't even know it was gonna happen. And that's never been in history reports. Until my remote viewing, now it's in history reports.

• 4:18:13Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 4:18:14Speaker 06

  Stuff like that.

• 4:18:15Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 4:18:17Speaker 06

  Um, I started out, uh. Well, we digress too much there.

• 4:18:24Shawn Ryan?

  Let's, let's, let's talk about the Colonel that was kidnapped by an Italian Marxist group.

• 4:18:30Speaker 06

  Oh, General Dozier. Yeah, the Rota Brigade kidnapped him. They took him in the, in the evening, I think it was about 6:30 in the evening. They just kicked his door in and went into his, his living room, or no, into his, uh, house. And they, uh, duct taped his wife to a chair in the kitchen. Uh, blindfolded her and everything and they took him. And so she wasn't discovered till 7:00 AM the following morning by a maid came in.

• 4:19:05Speaker 06

  And that's the first time they knew that he had been kidnapped.

• 4:19:10Speaker 06

  So they had no idea where they, where they took him. They, it was just like a 10 hour head start. And they were well known for going straight into a communist box country with their, their hostage. They were also well known for collecting a ransom and then sending the hostage back in multiple boxes. So it, it was a pretty, pretty harsh thing that they were looking forward to. So they really wanted to find him and.

• 4:19:43Speaker 06

  So it was all, all hands on deck. And again, Hartley Trent did a lion's share of that work. And what I did is I kept saying. They didn't take, they, they took him to a place called Padua. Well, Padua is an archaic name for Rivena, which was the city he was kidnapped in.

• 4:20:08Speaker 06

  And so they started thinking, well, Joe keeps saying Padua, so maybe it's the archaic part of the city, the old part of the city. So they went to the old part of the city and they found what Hartley Trent and I both described as a dead end street. And it was exactly as he and I had sketched it. Adjacent to it was a big apartment building. So there was four entries to this apartment building. The problem was, is he being held in the apartment building? And if we go into the apartment to look for him, we only have a finite amount of time once we kick the door in. Because they intend to kill him if they hear us coming.

• 4:20:53Speaker 06

  Okay? So we tried to work all that out. So we're doing remote viewing and, and DIA took our remote viewings and put them together and sent them over to the Italians. Well, the Italians put them with all the other psychic information they got. So they got like nine hundred psychics in Italy who all knew where he was. And so they had this mess of psychics. So they took the top two psychics they knew of in Italy and they went with the first one and went to a hotel and kicked the door in on a room and, and caught one of their

• 4:21:35Speaker 06

  senior statesmen in bed with another guy. Problem was he was married and three kids. That huge stain all over the front page. So they thought about the second psychic that they knew really well in Italy and they followed that person and did what she said and kicked another door in and caught a guy with three women who was also married and had kids. It was a political guy. Another big headline. So they took all the psychic material and dumped it in the trash can. Said, no more psychics. DIA and our State Department went off.

• 4:22:18Speaker 06

  No, you will use our stuff. Sent it back over. My understanding is in the backseat of a jet with the guy carrying it, the briefcase, barfing all the way.

• 4:22:35Speaker 06

  With the refuelings and all this stuff. So he gets there and he said, you will use this stuff. Or all my barfings for no good. And no, he, he suggested they use it. So they used it. So now they got this quandary. They wanna go into this building. Well, in the interim, they caught a cousin or a brother or something of one of the Red Brigade's members. And he said, yes, they have a safe room in one of those apartments. But he didn't know which staircase. He just knew it was in that apartment building. So their big problem was

• 4:23:20Speaker 06

  which entry, which entry? Well, Harley Trent came in one morning and he said, I've been working on this all night. I can't come up with anything. All I kept getting was the smell of roses. Well, it turned out there was a rose garden in front of one of the entries. My understanding is that's the sole reason they went in that entry. And they got the guy just before he pulled the trigger on the back of his head. Wow. And he was chained to a radiator inside a tent that had been erected inside the apartment. His eyes and his, he had headsets taped over his ears. He was listening to acid rock the whole time.

• 4:24:04Speaker 06

  And his eyes had been mangled folded and he had a head cloth wrapped around him and taped. So he had no idea where he was. Couldn't hear anything. But the whole time he was thinking of his family and everything. Well, that's something else Harley Trent came up with. I didn't have a lot of that, but I had a lot of the scripters of the tent and stuff like that. So what we did when he was rescued, we brought him to our unit. We flew him back to the States and brought him to our unit. And handed him all the reports.

• 4:24:44Speaker 06

  Uh, shuffled them all together in a nice way and put them in a folder. And I think he spent like five or six hours going over it, over and over and over. And we asked him if he had any comments afterwards, and he said, yeah. He said, there were a couple of comments. One is. Every thought I ever had about my family is as dead accurate in this report. You're, you kidding me? Yeah. He said, secondly. He said, I can't vouch for anything that was going on around me because I didn't know.

• 4:25:25Speaker 06

  But the fact that you, the Italian police came in and saved me. I gotta say, they knew somehow or another that I was being held and how I was being held. The ten, all the rest of that stuff is accurate. He said, I have one recommendation. You need to start a school where important people and important jobs are taught. How and what to think to affect their own rescues. I thought that was a brilliant statement. Me too. I have no idea where it went. But everything publicized about him says.

• 4:26:08Speaker 06

  I don't know anything about psychic function. Which is great. That was our cover. But another guy. Who was a hostage. Uh, being held in Tehran. Uh, we monitored the hostages in Tehran for 14 months. For their health and welfare and how they're being treated, that sort of thing. And, uh. Hartley, again, he came in one morning and said, they're gonna release a hostage. But I don't know his name. It has, it rhymes in some way with the face guards. And a deck of cards.

• 4:26:51Speaker 06

  Well, it turns out the guy's name was, uh.

• 4:26:56Speaker 06

  Queen.

• 4:26:58Speaker 06

  And he was released because he had MS. And Hartley said his name rhymes with a face card in some way. And I think he has MS. That's what he said. Based on that report, they sent an entire team of doctors, experts in MS to

• 4:27:21Speaker 06

  Germany.

• 4:27:24Speaker 06

  Four days later, they released Queen. He had MS. In the meantime, the State Department said, this whole report reports bogus by your guy. Because none of our people who have MS would ever have been sent overseas.

• 4:27:43Speaker 06

  And he never made that claim ever in his lifetime. Well, it turned out he lied because he wanted to go overseas. So it flared up. It was in remission when he went overseas and when he was taken hostage, it flared up. So

• 4:28:01Speaker 06

  all of that turned out to be correct. The other thing that we we saw spider webs in the trees of the courtyard. Spider webs turned out to be tripwires to the claymores mounted in the trees.

• 4:28:16Speaker 06

  We saw an entry exit possibility through the underground septic systems. And it was through the fact that there was an opening to the septic systems that was square, which was unusual. It's the only place in the world with square manhole covers. Because they fall into the hole of the open. And everywhere else they're round.

• 4:28:47Speaker 06

  And it goes on and on and on. Wow. They wanted to insert a guy in the compound that could do nighttime recording. And the problem was they needed a reporting capability, that sort of thing. Well, there was a boat in the car garage. It had been demasted. It had an onboard radio, it had food onboard, it had everything but the batteries to run the radio. And it had a whole bunch of cars in there with batteries. Whether they use that or not, I don't know. But I can tell you. I got called in once. By someone in the Pentagon who wanted to know why we knew as much about a rescue

• 4:29:32Speaker 06

  attempt as the top 11 people designing a rescue attempt. He wanted to know who our source was. And I said it's psychic information, and he said that was bullshit. That he wanted to know the source. I wasn't gonna walk out of his office. And he put a cock 45 on the desk to prove it. Where'd he go with that? I told him some things about his relationships that he didn't want to hear, but I walked out of there. All my hair standing up back of my neck.

• 4:30:15Speaker 06

  I mean, stupid stuff like that. We were getting indications for months, you know? Stolen vehicles, automatic weapons being put together and hidden, blockages being built out of concrete block in certain entryways, guys in hotel rooms with telescopes. I mean, it was going on and on and on. And we didn't know what to do with it, so we started putting it in an addendum. That was a mistake. Wow. Damn. Now, here's the thing.

• 4:30:57Speaker 06

  If we're doing that, why wouldn't terrorist organizations be doing that? Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't make any sense. It's scary. Yeah. Scares the hell out of me. Bother's me a great deal. Joe, all you need's that little window, that little mistake to capitalize on. What? After this, I believe, is this when you retired?

• 4:31:29Speaker 06

  After going two years without any relief at all as a viewer, I said, "That's it, I'm done." The general, General Bert Stubblebine at the time, offered me anything I wanted.

• 4:31:45Speaker 06

  Said, "You want to be a line officer, you want rank, you want money, you want, what is it you want? I can hire you back as a GS-15."

• 4:31:57Speaker 06

  "Just don't leave." I said, "No, I want to retire, that's what I want." And so I submitted my retirement papers, and I waited, waited, waited. Two months went by, I never saw him again. So I went into the, to the office, the place where I got the papers done up. "Oh, Bert Stubblebine came in like a month ago and tore them up, said you didn't want to retire." So I did all my retirement papers again and went to him first. Said, "Just sign right here, General, on the top, you get to be the first one."

• 4:32:39Speaker 06

  "I really don't want to do this." "Just sign right here, General." So he signed them and I hand carried him around and retired. What did you get the Legion of Merit for?

• 4:32:54Speaker 06

  I got it for two things.

• 4:32:57Speaker 06

  I was surprised by it, actually. Now I can send you a copy of it if you'd like to see it. Thank you.

• 4:33:05Speaker 06

  I was really surprised by it because it came from the office of the, the Secretary of the Army.

• 4:33:14Speaker 06

  Nobody wrote it up that I'm aware of.

• 4:33:19Speaker 06

  I got it for all the time I spent overseas doing intel work for NSA, ASA, CIA, you know, people like that. And the other half was for the remote viewing that I did. It turned out I was the only one that got a award for anything done. Harley Trent should have got it, same thing I got. Another guy, I'm not gonna say his name here because his family I know really well.

• 4:33:59Speaker 06

  He dropped dead in my office, 29 years old, married less than a year, had a baby on the way. He is another friend of mine. He came in one day and he said, I said, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be in New York. I couldn't go, there's something wrong. And I said, he handed me his briefcase. I didn't ask him what was in it, I just put it under my desk. I said, let me get you some coffee and I went in the back room. I heard the thump when he hit the floor. And I went in and he was laying on the floor. And I felt for a pulse and it was thready. So I started giving him CPR.

• 4:34:42Speaker 06

  By then I learned CPR. And everybody came in and said, what's going on? What's going on? Cause I, between breaths, I was screaming out the door. You know, call the hospital, call an ambulance. And finally they came over. Took one, one look at me doing CPR and turned around and walked out. Cause what they don't tell you about CPR is you're giving this breath of life to somebody and they're puking in your mouth the whole time. And.

• 4:35:19Speaker 06

  I guess they couldn't stand seeing that. But I gave them CPR for like forty-five minutes because they couldn't find us because they had taken our buildings off the maps.

• 4:35:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 4:35:31Speaker 06

  For Fort Meade as part of our security. And we were right across the street from the hospital. It's finally somebody went out the road and waved the ambulance down. That third time it was coming down the road with a siren. Brought them in and they brought me over to the hospital. I talked to the doctor there.

• 4:35:52Speaker 06

  And he said, I brought you over because I want you to know his blood gases were perfect. His heart was trashed. There's no way you could have brought him back.

• 4:36:04Shawn Ryan?

  Sorry to hear that.

• 4:36:09Speaker 06

  That's life.

• 4:36:12Speaker 06

  I felt really badly for his family, his new family.

• 4:36:20Shawn Ryan?

  How did it feel leaving, you know, being retired? I mean, you put a lot of work in. Did it, I mean?

• 4:36:27Speaker 06

  I felt relieved, relieved.

• 4:36:33Speaker 06

  At the same time, I felt like

• 4:36:40Speaker 06

  I felt like there was so much more I could have done.

• 4:36:47Speaker 06

  But the environment was not supportive.

• 4:36:52Speaker 06

  It was terrorizing, actually, because we had as many enemies as we had friends.

• 4:36:59Speaker 06

  I had, but I'll explain it this way.

• 4:37:04Speaker 06

  The guys on the street, agents in the field, guys that were hanging it out for Uncle Sam, loved us. Guys at the very top.

• 4:37:18Speaker 06

  Senators and congressmen and generals and admirals that knew what we were doing and the effect we were having, loved us. They couldn't be damaged. They were so high up, didn't matter if they were standing next to a psychic or not.

• 4:37:37Speaker 06

  Bureaucrats in the middle. Take them all, just make a big sandwich out of them and feed them to some big shark. Cause they're not worth a damn. They're out for. They're in power.

• 4:37:52Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 4:37:53Speaker 06

  They can be damaged by a psychic. They don't wanna stand next to them. That's my.

• 4:38:02Shawn Ryan?

  Do you miss those days?

• 4:38:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. I do. There's a lot I could have done. Instead, I wound up doing a lot for companies and people. And. And I gotta say, finding, when you find a live missing kid. That's like. You can't beat that with a stick. When you find one that you fought with a detective over, or you fought. For five hours with a sheriff to get you to. To get him to do something with your material. And then they finally find the kid. And they've used your material to do that. And they've only been dead an hour.

• 4:38:47Speaker 06

  You don't wanna spend any time in a room with them after that. Because then my own desire is to just like. Terminate them.

• 4:38:58Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 4:38:58Speaker 06

  You know, you're too stupid to be a human being.

• 4:39:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:39:02Speaker 06

  You know, I just feel that way. It's uh.

• 4:39:10Speaker 06

  It's enraging. To a certain point. And I don't know where to go with it. It's like, yeah.

• 4:39:20Shawn Ryan?

  How many children did you save? Do you know?

• 4:39:23Speaker 06

  I have no idea.

• 4:39:26Shawn Ryan?

  Do you remember?

• 4:39:27Speaker 06

  Maybe a dozen.

• 4:39:28Shawn Ryan?

  What is uh, what is one that really stands out to you?

• 4:39:31Speaker 06

  One that really stands out?

• 4:39:40Speaker 06

  I think, I think the kid that they called me about when I was in, uh, I was in Las Vegas. I gave a paper at a move on group there. Gave the paper, ate a big dinner, went to bed early.

• 4:39:57Speaker 06

  I got a call at like two in the morning from the mountain that overlooks where I live now. Down in the valley, which is all golf courses. On the mountain, it's ski resort. That's the mountain part of Wintergreen.

• 4:40:15Speaker 06

  And I got a call from the female, uh, police chief. They had a female police chief then. And she called me at two in the morning and said, we have a missing five-year-old and

• 4:40:30Speaker 06

  I understand you help with this sort of thing. I'm like, yeah, okay.

• 4:40:40Speaker 06

  I said, so what you want me to do is tell you where to go to find the kid? Yes. I said, okay.

• 4:40:48Speaker 06

  Do you know what a compass rose is? And she said, yeah. Usually if you say, uh,

• 4:40:56Speaker 06

  if you say compass, they don't understand that. Drawing compass, compass, whatever.

• 4:41:04Speaker 06

  So I said, uh,

• 4:41:07Speaker 06

  I can't remember the degrees. I said, on the compass rose, you want to go to the last place he was seen. On the compass rose, you want to go to a certain degree. And you would take, I think it was a hundred and twenty-five or a hundred and twenty-nine. I can't remember now. It's a specific number of steps, uh, in that direction. And when you get there, stalk and just yell his name out and he'll probably respond.

• 4:41:36Speaker 06

  It turns out, the guy she sent to do that, the deputy, came back and said, there's no reason to do that. I can tell you right now, you're not going to find the kid that way. And she said, why not? And he said, because I went to a class where I was taught by the FBI on this. And kids under age ten never go uphill. Never, never go uphill.

• 4:42:05Speaker 06

  So she called me back, woke me up the second time. This is like twenty minutes after I went back to sleep. And I said, yeah, what now? And she said, I was getting upset. And she said, my deputy told me that it's straight up the side of the mountain. And a kid would never do that under age ten. And I said, some pretty ugly things. I said, uh, just go do what I told you. And I slammed the phone down and got back in bed. And she woke me up again, like fifteen minutes later. Just getting back to sleep again. And I said, okay, okay.

• 4:42:49Speaker 06

  What's going on? And she said, we found him. And I said, thank you. Have a good night. I hung up. What I didn't know, and I found out later. His father told him, if you ever get lost, go to the nearest light and wait for me. Nearest light was on the back of an empty cabin. Somebody had left the back, the back step light on up the mountain. So that's where he went. And when he got to the cabin, it was all locked up. So he climbed up on a couch on the back porch and laid down on a couch and fell asleep. Wow.

• 4:43:32Speaker 06

  And so this, this detective went up the mountain, stopped right behind the cabin and yelled his name. And he sat up and said, what? Oh, my God. And I, I think that was, that was the best. Cause I was getting so upset with the whole thing because she kept waking me up. Just go do what I told you to do, damn it. And I don't know where it comes from. It just comes in my head.

• 4:44:06Speaker 06

  But there, there's been a couple that have been really bad. Have you met any of the kids? No. No? Do you want to? No, don't need to. Why not? Don't need it.

• 4:44:23Speaker 06

  If they're safe, they're back with the people who care about them. That's all that matters.

• 4:44:28Speaker 06

  I don't, I don't, beyond that, I don't, I don't need it, anything. That, that's the old intelligence stuff. Oh yeah. This company didn't get wiped out. It side flanked an NVA unit, took a hundred and ninety NVA. Hey, good for you. Where'd you get the info? Who cares?

• 4:44:53Speaker 06

  In fact, they came looking for me once. So I'm a staff sergeant in Vietnam. And the unit I talked to

• 4:45:04Speaker 06

  met an NVA unit moving through their area, which I knew was gonna happen. And nobody was doing anything about it. So I put on Lieutenant Bars and went by and saw their intel officer. And he and I discussed it and I said, if, if you were here and you can get somebody to provide you with a hard rock block here, maybe a couple of tanks. You'll turn them this way. You got them. They're in a ravine. And that's what they did. So they came to our unit looking for this lieutenant.

• 4:45:43Speaker 06

  They give him an award. And I'm hiding under my cot.

• 4:45:51Speaker 06

  Don't, don't, don't tell anybody I'm here. If I'm in the hole, you know, down under my cot. Don't tell anybody I'm here.

• 4:46:01Speaker 06

  I could have gone eleven or a

• 4:46:05Speaker 06

  I didn't even think about it.

• 4:46:09Speaker 06

  I did some stupid stuff.

• 4:46:17Speaker 06

  There's a certain freedom in that, you know, you don't have to be responsible one way or the other.

• 4:46:29Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to.

• 4:46:33Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to talk about some of your other remote viewings. Now, one in particular I'd like to discuss is you were tasked with remote viewing Mars, from what I understand. And the time period, I believe, was 1,000,000 B.C.

• 4:46:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, 1,000,000 B.C.

• 4:46:53Shawn Ryan?

  Who was that directed by?

• 4:46:56Speaker 06

  Well, when it was tasked, I was sleeping in the industrial cube, the sealed cube in Bob Monroe's lab at the Monroe Institute. Because we had been working on going out of body

• 4:47:18Speaker 06

  and controlling it. And I was exhausted. So we've been working, this was Sunday, I think. And he woke me up and I said, "Yeah, I'm awake. What's going on?" He said, "Well, I have some people here from the Department of the Army. And they have a target for you." And I said, "Okay.

• 4:47:45Speaker 06

  What do you want me to do?" He said, "Well,

• 4:47:48Speaker 06

  he said, "I have an envelope here. There's nothing written on it. It's in my pocket. Tell me something about it." So it started out with a really large pyramid. And I said, the first thing words out of my mouth was, "This must be a new discovery." And he said, "Why do you say that?" And I said, "'Cause it's huge. It's bigger than the pyramid in Giza."

• 4:48:17Speaker 06

  Must be a new discovery somewhere.

• 4:48:21Speaker 06

  And then he said, uh, well, tell me something about it. That's what I want to know.

• 4:48:27Speaker 06

  And so I said, it's got really large rooms inside. It's kind of surprising because the way pyramids are built, that can't be done. You can't have large rooms inside because of the weight, the weight of the construction. So it must be some new form of construction. So are you sure this is not a new discovery? And he said, just tell me what I need to know.

• 4:48:54Speaker 06

  So I said, well, it appears to be some form of, uh,

• 4:49:03Speaker 06

  some form of protective, protection of survivors of some cataclysm. And, uh,

• 4:49:16Speaker 06

  they're in stasis. They're waiting for somebody to come.

• 4:49:22Speaker 06

  I said, but I, I think it's too late. I think they're all dead. And he said, why do you say that? And I said, because I feel like the messages I'm getting are like leftover mental images, things that they pass differently from normal

• 4:49:43Speaker 06

  or something like that. So he asked me some other questions. He moved me around in the target and asked me some other questions and then.

• 4:49:53Speaker 06

  And it turned out there were six specific targets that I was given in that particular case. And all six of them, I described exactly what was standing there.

• 4:50:06Speaker 06

  And when I say that, I mean, what was also pictured in negatives by JPL, except for Pulse Laboratory, California.

• 4:50:18Speaker 06

  And so I finally said, it's like a

• 4:50:23Speaker 06

  special race of people or something. I'm getting humans just like we are. But I'm not so sure they're humans like we understand humans. Cause they're way bigger. So what do you mean? I said, they're like 10 feet tall, really huge. But they're proportionately the same, very human like.

• 4:50:48Speaker 06

  So I don't know what's going on here. I said, and the sun looks really weird.

• 4:50:55Speaker 06

  And he said, I don't care about the sun. Tell me more of what's on the ground.

• 4:51:02Speaker 06

  So he was being a pretty good monitor at the time. And uh, so we, we basically finished the whole line of it and I came out.

• 4:51:14Speaker 06

  I said, what's going on? And I was introduced to these people and the guy they had brought them was Fred Atwater. My old training officer.

• 4:51:29Speaker 06

  So this was uh, as far as I was concerned, was an active mission because we were still doing remote fueling with the project.

• 4:51:39Speaker 06

  And uh, so I said, so where is this? Is this a new discovery or something?

• 4:51:46Speaker 06

  And he says, well, Bob's got the envelope. It has a target identified in it. And Bob, oh yeah, I got it right here. And he pulled it out of his shirtbox and just opened it up as an envelope. Nothing written on it.

• 4:52:04Speaker 06

  And so we opened up the envelope and inside it said Mars, 1 million years B.C.

• 4:52:12Speaker 06

  And I said, wow.

• 4:52:17Speaker 06

  I mean, what are you gonna say? But everything, everything that's actually on the ground, I described.

• 4:52:25Speaker 06

  There is a. What I decided to do was the next time I was in California, I was gonna go by JPL and get copies of the negatives. Because somebody said, oh, it's all BS. And I said, no, I, I think they're pictures. Specific pictures for the different GPS location. See, these were all GPSs that they read to me while I was in the box.

• 4:52:55Speaker 06

  The GPSs in my mind were for Earth. I never heard of GPSs for another planet. It turns out every planet in our universe has got GPSs that match the Earth's because they're all spiritual, as well as the moons and everything else. So.

• 4:53:21Speaker 06

  I, I didn't understand it to be off the Earth. I thought GPS has only worked on the Earth. So that's why I kept thinking it was a new discovery. But it, it turned out I went to JPL and I walked up to the counter and I had the actual card that had the GPSs written on it.

• 4:53:44Speaker 06

  Six or seven GPSs. I think there were seven and I just didn't do the seventh because I was too tired. I had been, uh, I worked on it for maybe an hour and a half.

• 4:53:57Speaker 06

  And I was tired anyway from working all day.

• 4:54:02Speaker 06

  So I walked up to the desk and the guy said, can I help you? And I said, yeah, I understand all the pictures taken in space belong to the American people. And he said, of course they do. It's taxes paid for them. I said, okay, I'd like to see all the pictures for these GPSs. And he took one look at the card and he said, oh, that's the old city on Mars. And opened a drawer and pulled out a packet and handed it to me. And inside the packet are all the negatives. And I blew up the negatives and guess what's in my book? Everything I just drive.

• 4:54:43Speaker 06

  An old fort, pyramids, uh, big impact crater with a road running through it. There's a, there's a road runs straight as an arrow for 1,200 kilometers on Mars. They go right through the heart of a huge impact crater. And where the road come through, you can see where the impact crater has been modified to let the road through one side and out the other. Here's, here's the thing that made it real for me.

• 4:55:23Speaker 06

  The, the outer edges of the impact crater, they know how tall the edges are of the impact crater because there's a half inch of shadow line around them. And they know the angle that the picture was taken and from where and the sun's position and all that. So they can tell you that the half inch of shadow line around the outside edge of the impact crater tells you that it's 3,000 feet high, the walls of the impact crater.

• 4:56:02Speaker 06

  That's not really a super high wall on an impact crater, but

• 4:56:08Speaker 06

  but they don't tell you, and it's shown in the picture, is in the upper rim edge of the impact crater, there's a little triangular piece sticks out on the side of the impact crater. That had to have been put there by somebody. It's a construct. It sticks straight out at a perfect 90 degree angle. It goes like that. Is it part of the pyramid? No.

• 4:56:34Speaker 06

  It's part of the wall of the impact crater. So you got an edge up here, 3,000 feet up, and there's a triangular piece that sticks out and goes back in. And on top of that is a pyramid. It looks like a pyramid, because you're looking straight down on top of it.

• 4:56:56Speaker 06

  The shadow from that pyramid that you're looking straight down on top of is two and a half inches out.

• 4:57:05Speaker 06

  Now, if the impact crater has a half inch shadow and it's 3,000 feet tall, how tall do you think that two and a half inch shadow is?

• 4:57:15Speaker 06

  It's up there.

• 4:57:18Speaker 06

  I said to the guy at JPO, and he showed them to me, I looked at it.

• 4:57:28Speaker 06

  How tall do you figure this is? And he said, really tall. And I said, okay, how did it get there? It had to be put there after the impact crater hit, after that thing that made the impact crater had hit Mars.

• 4:57:47Speaker 06

  It couldn't have been put there after, I mean before, because the impact would have Destroyed it. blown it away. I said, this thing is literally tens of thousands of feet tall. What the hell is it? And he said, well, a lot of people think it's a shard. It kind of grew there. And I went.

• 4:58:08Speaker 06

  Started laughing. It grew.

• 4:58:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure this thing grew there. But who built the support for it on the edge of the impact crater? Well, nobody knows about that.

• 4:58:24Speaker 06

  It's anybody's guess. So, there's no doubt in my mind that what they're saying about this old city is true. Because that's true. I mean, why, I, I'm, it's like I ask questions about it and they just look at you like you're stupid and say, "Well, we don't know." "Why did you take pictures of that area of Mars?" "Uh, we don't know."

• 4:58:56Speaker 06

  "How do you think that got, well, we don't know."

• 4:58:58Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what is your thought process after that?

• 4:59:01Speaker 06

  I, I happen to think the only aliens on our planet is us.

• 4:59:08Speaker 06

  And I have good reason to say that. I think we're the aliens on this planet. Because we don't give one rat's butt about this planet. We take and take and take whatever we want from it. We don't give a damn what happens to the climate, the planet, or anything else. We have shit so badly in our nest that you see people dying left and right of more and more cancers. And we gotta go, "I wonder why that's happening."

• 4:59:39Speaker 06

  It's stupidity. It's,

• 4:59:43Speaker 06

  "God almighty." And, and, but everybody wants to think we're the master race. We are human beings. We own the world. The Bible says,

• 4:59:56Speaker 06

  "Take control."

• 5:00:02Speaker 06

  Sounds apolitical to me.

• 5:00:07Speaker 06

  Maybe just take it.

• 5:00:08Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, is that, uh, is that, is that, uh, disturbing to you at all?

• 5:00:13Speaker 06

  Very much so, yeah. Very much so. That everything on this planet, what a human cares about this planet.

• 5:00:26Speaker 06

  If a

• 5:00:30Speaker 06

  if a group of wolves, let's say wolves out of Alaska.

• 5:00:37Speaker 06

  If they run out of food and they can't hunt food anymore where they live. They kill off their young, they kill off their dead, they move to a place where they can find game that they can eat. Only the strong survives, but they do it to save their family in it. And they only kill and eat what they need to kill and eat. They don't do it out of savagery and they don't do it because they're bad. They do it because they're in tune with the very world that they live in. They understand it, they operate within it, they do what's necessary to survive only.

• 5:01:20Speaker 06

  If you're in another animal on this planet, it doesn't do the same thing, except for human beings.

• 5:01:28Speaker 06

  We, we just take what we want and it doesn't matter what it does to the planet. And we just keep doing it over and over and over and it's about power, money, influence in the governments of the planet and it's a predominant reason for war.

• 5:01:50Speaker 06

  You know, it's what keeps the coffers filling up. It's part of how we can produce something that gives us lots of money back that we can enjoy.

• 5:02:03Speaker 06

  And all it costs is a little war here, a little war there. And, and you know, you can't not buy more airplanes or tanks because it takes 12 states now to make a tank. That's 125,000 jobs that would disappear overnight if we didn't buy any new tanks.

• 5:02:24Speaker 06

  So you have model two, model three, brand new kind, bigger gun, you know, faster tracks, whatever. You know, we just keep

• 5:02:38Speaker 06

  reinventing reasons for that stuff. Why, why can't we?

• 5:02:45Speaker 06

  Decide to put everything back to normal and stop all the foolishness and pay people to do that. That seems to be to be a more realistic way to live on a finite planet where we're not going to kill ourselves or ruin it or in some way destroy the very thing that supports us. I think we came here because of something that happened on Mars. Were we the cause of it? Who knows?

• 5:03:20Shawn Ryan?

  Do you ever look more into previous viewings out of just out of curiosity like perhaps?

• 5:03:30Speaker 06

  No, I can't. I can't do that. I can't target myself because then I know what I'm working on.

• 5:03:36Shawn Ryan?

  Makes sense.

• 5:03:37Speaker 06

  There are things that I will work on where I know what it is I'm working on, but only because the answer is completely unknown to anyone. That that might be a, um, I don't know. Who who broke into the big museum in Boston and ripped off three of the finest pieces of artwork ever stolen? And where did they go? Who owns them now? I happen to think they're in private collections and they go into these vaults and sit in front of them once in a while and go, oh, I own it. Oh, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 5:04:22Speaker 06

  Stolen for a reason, that kind of thing. But I mean, I don't know.

• 5:04:32Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about Skim Walker Ranch. Did you have any affiliation with that?

• 5:04:40Speaker 06

  Yeah. I was asked by

• 5:04:46Speaker 06

  Bigelow to Target, Skinwalker Ranch, when he owned it. I guess he owned it. I'm not sure if he owned it or.

• 5:04:55Shawn Ryan?

  From my understanding, Robert Bigelow owned it previous to Brandon Fugel.

• 5:05:00Speaker 06

  Right, that's right. Um, well, this is back when he owned it. And he asked me if I needed to go there and I said, Don, I need to go to Skinwalker Ranch. He asked me what was going on there and I said, I suspect there's something bizarre going on there that no one's faced before. But then there's lots of places like that all over the planet. And, uh, it's gonna take an involved amount of study. You're gonna have to spend a lot of time there and do a lot of things you might not wanna do. It's gonna be expensive. Then as soon as I said that, well,

• 5:05:44Speaker 06

  you know, can I hire you to come out, take care of that? No. Cause I'll never live in, never live where you live. I'll put it that way. You know, I think he's an interesting guy. I think he's got a lot of interests in different things that he's trying to accomplish and I wish him all the luck in the world. And I don't need to be part of it. And I, I kinda blew it off a little bit. I did some remote viewing for him, but I didn't come up with anything significant, so. I think he and I just decided to go our separate ways.

• 5:06:28Speaker 06

  I think they're over excited and over exercising themselves over this ranch. I think there's probably some bizarre stuff happening there, but it has more to do with its location than it does anything else. There might be, I don't know, huge electromagnetic deformity there in some way that affects machines and cows and people. And whatever, but I don't think it's anything UFO related or mysteriously related to anything.

• 5:07:11Speaker 06

  I've never really seen a really good mystery. Other than maybe the guy in the incredible armor.

• 5:07:22Speaker 06

  In Thailand, but.

• 5:07:26Shawn Ryan?

  Well, the city on Mars seems.

• 5:07:30Speaker 06

  That's pretty far out there. But I have no reason to think it's not real.

• 5:07:36Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I didn't mean that.

• 5:07:37Speaker 06

  No, no, I understand what you're saying. I understand very well what you're saying.

• 5:07:42Shawn Ryan?

  This is something I'll be thinking about until I die. I guarantee it.

• 5:07:46Speaker 06

  My problem is when you do remote viewing, I can't control what they target me against. And.

• 5:07:54Speaker 06

  As long as some people are in charge of that. They want to get involved in that and know that I'm a very good remote viewer, they usually. Try to generate that kind of stuff.

• 5:08:09Speaker 06

  I can usually tell when I'm being fished. So. I try to give as honest an answer as I can in terms of what I'm sensing. But if I feel like I'm being used in some way, they don't get anything.

• 5:08:22Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 5:08:23Speaker 06

  You know, I just. Don't do anything. I just say, sorry, nothing's coming in. Have a nice day.

• 5:08:30Shawn Ryan?

  Can you?

• 5:08:33Shawn Ryan?

  Remote view into a different dimension?

• 5:08:37Speaker 06

  I suspect it's possible. The only reason I say that. Is because.

• 5:08:48Speaker 06

  I've done some remote viewing on some things that were probably operational in other dimensions.

• 5:08:58Speaker 06

  Trying to think of there's. One project that was going on.

• 5:09:06Speaker 06

  It had to do with.

• 5:09:10Speaker 06

  Had to do with a certain kind of transmissions.

• 5:09:16Speaker 06

  But I can't, I can't think of it right now. It was a form of transmission that could not be seen or picked up on in this reality. It was like transmitting sideways through our time-space, but it couldn't be sensed or picked up on. It had to be in sync with whatever was receiving, and I can't remember the details of that. But it had to do with some mysterious things that were happening around a ship. And I did some remote viewing on that.

• 5:10:01Speaker 06

  No, I, I can't think of a single target that I've been targeted on that was not doable.

• 5:10:08Shawn Ryan?

  Could you describe, I mean, and what, would your explanation of another dimension be?

• 5:10:19Speaker 06

  My explanation of another dimension would be a place you would go to turn right without anybody knowing you turned right. That's another dimension. Another dimension could also be how we live our lives. Here, here's how I view human interaction. You're, you and I are interacting in this room right now. We met each other formally the first time this morning.

• 5:10:57Speaker 06

  When we're all done here and I leave, if we never saw each other again, somebody could say to me, "Did you meet him?" And I could say, "Yeah, I met him." And they could say, "Well, what do you think he's doing now?" And I could say, "I haven't got a clue. He's not in my world anymore." Your, your world is where you are and what you're doing, and that's real only while you're doing it in that place at that time.

• 5:11:34Speaker 06

  When you change places, you're with different people. So the best somebody you were with earlier can say is, I know what I think he goes and does, but I can't tell you if he actually does it. I mean, we make a lot of assumptions about what we all know about each other. You really can't make those assumptions because we don't know if reality operates that way or not. Two people who spend a lot of time together, like a husband and wife,

• 5:12:13Speaker 06

  share an almost known, agreeable world that they operate within together because they have certain expectancies for what the other person's gonna do, and they always do it. Like they always come home, or they always go to work. They always raise the money that feeds, puts food on the table. They always do certain things. So that's a kind of a shared reality. But if one of them disappears in the middle of that, you can't say that they're in the same world anymore. They could be in a completely different reality. The best I could ever say is that when I would meet you again,

• 5:12:57Speaker 06

  you could tell me what you did, and I could say, I believe you. But I can never know that to be true. The only thing I can actually know about the world I'm in is what I experience directly. So, having said that, it's nice to be able to be with people and say, I believe everything you tell me because you have walked in many parts of the same world I perceive that I've walked in. Doesn't mean that we've had exactly the same experiences or we've been in exactly the same place in time,

• 5:13:39Speaker 06

  but it does mean that we've had similar things happen in our worlds, that we can identify them together and talk about them. There's no guarantee that we're not completely in different worlds, though. In other words, when I leave here, if I make a decision...

• 5:14:03Speaker 06

  That takes me somewhere else.

• 5:14:07Speaker 06

  Um, I'm, I'm actually stepping out of,

• 5:14:12Speaker 06

  uh, I'm actually stepping out of time-space into a different time-space.

• 5:14:19Speaker 06

  I'm, I'm finding it's very difficult to explain how, how kind of my belief structure works. We're doing a great job. I think that reality, we make a lot of assumptions about reality and people we know and people and things that happen and don't happen. And I think that that's,

• 5:14:41Speaker 06

  that's not a good thing. I think we need to be more,

• 5:14:46Speaker 06

  more understanding about the things that we can relate to one another that may be of value to us

• 5:14:55Speaker 06

  versus what we believe about someone else, which may or may not be true. In, in other words, I'm more interested in talk, sitting and talking with somebody and have them relate to me where they've been, what they did, that sort of thing. And it's not about saying, "Well, I understand that's true because history says that's true." No, I'm interested in what the person says was true because they did it. I want to believe them.

• 5:15:29Speaker 06

  Because they say they did it, might have been in a completely different world that stands alone from my world. No, there's, there's an assumption that we're all on this planet. We're all sharing this planet and there's no guarantee that's happening.

• 5:15:49Speaker 06

  In a constructive reality, you have to question whether or not people who go to the same place go to the same, same place. If, if you understand what I'm saying.

• 5:16:05Speaker 06

  Because there's no relation to two people going to the same place. Ideally, they might have experienced it completely differently. Or it may be in a different bubble than the one I'm in. In other words, I, I look at reality as a, just a huge room full of bubbles.

• 5:16:28Speaker 06

  And when I make a decision, I'm not going from this bubble to the tangent bubble. I'm going from this bubble to some other bubble, somewhere else, that's within the room of bubbles.

• 5:16:42Speaker 06

  When you and I are together, we're tangent bubbles.

• 5:16:47Speaker 06

  But when we leave one another, we go to different bubbles in the same room full of bubbles. You understand what I'm saying? So, reality for me is a mass of bubbles of possibility. Where we all go different ways, for different reasons. And we collect experiences that are somewhat similar, maybe, but never the same.

• 5:17:17Speaker 06

  So, it, it's hard for me. I can always say to somebody, I trust you, I believe you, I accept what you're telling me is truth.

• 5:17:27Speaker 06

  And that's the best I can do. I can never say, I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 5:17:32Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's, I see what you're, I mean, it's, it's like the argument, does a tree make a sound when it falls?

• 5:17:39Speaker 06

  Right.

• 5:17:39Shawn Ryan?

  When nobody's around?

• 5:17:40Speaker 06

  Right.

• 5:17:41Shawn Ryan?

  You can't ever prove it.

• 5:17:42Speaker 06

  You can't prove it one way or the other. Likewise, I, and I'm, I'm furiously picky about this.

• 5:17:52Speaker 06

  I was sitting in a bar in New York.

• 5:17:56Speaker 06

  And they had Kelly, Kelly on TV, My Lie.

• 5:18:04Speaker 06

  Butchering people in my life. And some guy at the other end of the bar says, "If that was me, I'd never do that."

• 5:18:12Speaker 06

  And I had to get up off my bar stool and walk down to the end of the bar and looking dead in the eye and say, "You don't have a clue what you would do or not do in the same circumstance." And I'd appreciate it if you didn't condemn the man without knowing.

• 5:18:31Speaker 06

  And I walked back down and sat on my stool. And the guy got up and walked out of the bar. It's like, that's truth.

• 5:18:42Speaker 06

  What he was saying, that ain't truth. That's what he thinks. There's a huge difference between what you think and what you know to be true. And I can tell you, I have seen enough in this world to never want to condemn somebody for something they do when I wasn't standing there watching it.

• 5:19:05Speaker 06

  I would never do that.

• 5:19:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's a damn good way to live.

• 5:19:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:19:11Speaker 06

  Because we don't know what we would do in the same circumstances as other people. And it's the very reason why we shouldn't put people in jail for life.

• 5:19:23Shawn Ryan?

  How long did it take you to arrive at this point?

• 5:19:26Speaker 06

  To this point?

• 5:19:29Speaker 06

  A lot of mistakes.

• 5:19:33Speaker 06

  A lot of understanding in my own very, uh,

• 5:19:43Speaker 06

  unlearned reality. Or my non-functioning understanding for how things work. And when you find that out, you find you're more tolerable, tolerable to some extent, less tolerable than others.

• 5:20:04Speaker 06

  It's, I think, the very reason why

• 5:20:10Speaker 06

  I really wish I didn't know things about people through the media.

• 5:20:18Speaker 06

  Because it makes me form pretty hard rock feelings about some things that I shouldn't have.

• 5:20:29Speaker 06

  And I could really digress into that easily.

• 5:20:34Shawn Ryan?

  It's uh, it's the seed that's been planted.

• 5:20:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:20:39Shawn Ryan?

  That you didn't want.

• 5:20:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, right. I don't want to hear it. And, and not only that, but it upsets the apple cart for me in some cases, where I would much rather be ignorant.

• 5:20:55Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:20:55Speaker 06

  Because then I'm less judgmental about it. When you're not ignorant, you can afford to be judgmental.

• 5:21:05Speaker 06

  And that's a wrong way to be, I think. Cause it doesn't afford other people the ability to explain their cause, explain their reasons, or explain why they are the way they are.

• 5:21:24Speaker 06

  Now, there's some circumstances when I think that's necessary.

• 5:21:31Speaker 06

  When would that occur? Well, I think it's necessary when it come, when you put someone in a position

• 5:21:41Speaker 06

  of authority over huge amounts of people.

• 5:21:46Speaker 06

  You have to have some truth from that person. If you can't get truth from them, they don't be in that, they shouldn't be in that position.

• 5:21:57Speaker 06

  So, they have to be answerable to some degree. So, no one can have just pure authority over other people and not be challenged. They need to be challenged. And when, in the challenging of them, they need to be able to step up and say, this is, this is my thinking, this is where I'm coming from, this is why I did what I did. And you need to listen to them. And if it makes sense, then that's fine. If it doesn't make sense, maybe they're just not giving you the whole truth, or maybe you need more information,

• 5:22:40Speaker 06

  or whatever. But I think when people are in charge of other people with great authority, I think they have to be very careful about what they do. Otherwise, they need to be explaining it.

• 5:22:54Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 5:22:58Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to go over another one of your feelings. Uh, this is, this is my last minute research, uh, that I was doing last night, uh, before breakfast this morning and, um,

• 5:23:15Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to talk about Mount Hayes, Alaska.

• 5:23:18Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 5:23:21Speaker 06

  That's it. Mount Hayes. I couldn't remember the name of the mountain.

• 5:23:26Speaker 06

  Um, again, I don't know what I'm remote viewing when I'm remote viewing it.

• 5:23:33Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:23:34Speaker 06

  It's a totally unknown target to me. Uh, the fact that it's been applied to Mount Hayes,

• 5:23:42Speaker 06

  I don't have any trouble with, but the trouble I might have with it is what I, the interpretation, what I might have said.

• 5:23:53Speaker 06

  Uh, is there some form of embedded base in that mountain? Probably.

• 5:24:02Speaker 06

  Is it well-known? Probably not.

• 5:24:07Speaker 06

  If you were to try to seek that out in that mountain,

• 5:24:12Speaker 06

  would it be a good thing or a bad thing? Uh, it could go either way depending on what you find. Uh, is it a specific kind of base? That's where I start getting into issues over what I say or don't say.

• 5:24:29Speaker 06

  Uh, I've been targeted on a lot of things and this is part of the paper I gave at Lufon.

• 5:24:39Speaker 06

  When people target me on like a UFO, they're looking, what they're really looking for is a remote viewing or a remote viewer that tells them there's an alien on board this ship and they're from, for, for a godly, uh, star system or something.

• 5:25:01Speaker 06

  You're not going to get that from a remote viewing. What you may get from remote viewing is in this particular case, there's a, an entity on board.

• 5:25:16Speaker 06

  But I don't know what the hell they're doing, you know? Well, okay, do you interpret that as an alien? Well, it depends on what it is in actuality. Uh, or what it is they're doing, if you want to make that leap. The, the problem with all of this is people have certain assumptions going in. And if I'm doing a target for them, and I give them the raw input that I'm giving them, sometimes they can interpret it their own way, and that's what they do.

• 5:25:51Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 5:25:52Speaker 06

  Other times, they just keep the parts that support their belief or their theory, and they discard the parts that don't support it, that kind of thing.

• 5:26:07Shawn Ryan?

  You're saying they manipulate the truth?

• 5:26:10Speaker 06

  Well, they manipulate the remote feeling, certainly.

• 5:26:14Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, and, and leave other sections out. What did you experience?

• 5:26:22Speaker 06

  What I did experience is I did experience there's some kind of a hidden basin, Mount Hayes, and there's probably three different directions of getting to it, and there's probably something going on there that we need to know about. I'm talking about the pregnant we, you know, the media we, the, wouldn't it be interesting to know what's going on there? That kind of we. Um, in terms of it being actually aliens, I wouldn't go so far as to say that, because I think we're actually aliens, but that gave my reasons for that.

• 5:27:00Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 5:27:01Speaker 06

  Um, I just, I don't know. I'd have to revert, review the, the result to be able to tell you whether or not even buy my own remote feeling. You know, one of the problems with remote feeling is you don't know when, when you don't know.

• 5:27:24Speaker 06

  I don't know if that says much, but.

• 5:27:28Shawn Ryan?

  Well.

• 5:27:29Speaker 06

  There's some things you come up with. That you interpret badly, that you're wrong about in remote viewing.

• 5:27:38Shawn Ryan?

  Well, it doesn't sound like you're the only one that remote viewed, uh, Mount Hayes.

• 5:27:43Speaker 06

  No, there's some others too, and it may be that I'm just confirming their viewing. I, I don't know. It depends on how it was presented to me at the time.

• 5:27:59Shawn Ryan?

  Do you remember anything about a small nuclear power plant?

• 5:28:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, I do. In fact, that's like a 55 gallon drum buried in the ground. Maybe 160 feet down. They just take a tube.

• 5:28:15Speaker 06

  Drop it in the bottom of the tube with two feeder cables coming out and it produces power for.

• 5:28:22Speaker 06

  25,000 years or something. Goes inert and it's buried in the ground 160 feet.

• 5:28:32Speaker 06

  In fact, I, I do know I remote viewed one of those once. More than once, actually. So that may be one of the ones where I did. And I said, we need, we need these things for housing developments in the middle of nowhere. That, that would be a great power system for it. Wouldn't need any other infrastructure.

• 5:28:56Shawn Ryan?

  It sounded like. You'd also said something along the lines of a, on top of a dome, there was an emitter sending large amounts of energy into space.

• 5:29:11Speaker 06

  I can't, I can't answer that. I don't remember.

• 5:29:14Shawn Ryan?

  Do you remember anything about Mount Zeal?

• 5:29:19Speaker 06

  No, nothing at all about that.

• 5:29:21Shawn Ryan?

  Mount Perdito?

• 5:29:23Speaker 06

  Perdito, that's in Spain.

• 5:29:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yes, sir.

• 5:29:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:29:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, I remember saying that, uh. Mount Perdito has a lot hidden in it because it's a mount where there's lots of.

• 5:29:43Speaker 06

  You know what a whiteout on a mountain is?

• 5:29:46Shawn Ryan?

  I do.

• 5:29:47Speaker 06

  When you're on top of a mountain and the clouds come in and if you take one more step, you don't know if it's gonna be a short one or a long. Mount Perdido is one of those mountains. If you're ever on that mountain, it's like best be careful because you can get whited out up there in a heartbeat. So there are some things that I think that are hidden about that mountain.

• 5:30:15Speaker 06

  I might have talked about that. You know, I honestly, I can't remember this stuff now.

• 5:30:24Speaker 06

  It depends on who did the analysis and who put this together.

• 5:30:29Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:30:30Speaker 06

  And, and, and I'm, I'm trying to be fair here because I, I honestly don't remember what I said about some of these places and I find it

• 5:30:46Speaker 06

  dangerous to consolidate stuff from multiple viewers because some of the viewers might not have

• 5:30:57Speaker 06

  been as qualified. I, I don't know. I, I just don't know.

• 5:31:05Shawn Ryan?

  Do you remember anything about, I'm gonna butcher this name, Mount Nyangani?

• 5:31:13Speaker 06

  It's in Africa, right?

• 5:31:15Shawn Ryan?

  I believe so.

• 5:31:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:31:22Speaker 06

  Uh, only that it's part of the

• 5:31:27Speaker 06

  Zulu Nation. There's a tribe there that guards it.

• 5:31:35Speaker 06

  Guards that mountain. Doesn't like people going up or down the mountain.

• 5:31:46Speaker 06

  See, one of the problems here.

• 5:31:52Speaker 06

  Since we've tweaked the radars on some of the Navy planes. They've been capturing the Tic Tacs. Tic Tacs actually go all the way back to Trinity. When they set the bomb off at Trinity, Trinity in the desert.

• 5:32:13Speaker 06

  That's when the first Tic Tac showed up. And that was a crash. Uh, he was 12 miles away from Trinity, but it was right after the bomb went off at Trinity, the test, test bomb.

• 5:32:32Speaker 06

  What they didn't tell people when they detonated that bomb. They didn't tell anybody that it was a nuclear weapon that went off. They told everybody in the area that it was a a detonation of a huge ammo dump that the Army had been dumping stuff in for years.

• 5:32:54Speaker 06

  And that all the dust and crap in the air was from that ammo dump. Spontaneously going off. The problem is it spread radioactivity out for like 1200 miles in one direction. It deposited significant radioactive material on top of something like 1200 ranches. Where they raised cows and uh, sheep and goats and chickens and pigs and all that stuff.

• 5:33:30Speaker 06

  People died prematurely in all those ranches from radiation poisoning. People who ate the animals died of prematurely of radiation poisoning. They never told anybody the truth.

• 5:33:46Speaker 06

  And the problem with that is now we have uh, things that are believed about that entire event that may or may not be true.

• 5:33:59Speaker 06

  Tic tacs are kind of the same problem. They, they, I talked, I talked with some, to some degree with some people I know that are very much into the UFO field.

• 5:34:17Speaker 06

  And some of them say, yes, this in fact happened. That a Tic Tac crashed immediately afterwards. Well, it was a couple of weeks later. After the bomb was detonated. And um, the radiation might have affected it.

• 5:34:35Speaker 06

  And this Tic Tac,

• 5:34:38Speaker 06

  by virtue of the way it was described by people who discovered it first, which were kids, long before the army came in and spirited it away. Uh, their descriptions are good descriptions for something that was manufactured. Not, not flown in from another world or flown in from a, even a place somewhere out in our solar system. It, it actually is an object that was manufactured. Its manufacture was extremely advanced. And the kids who stole s- stuff out of the walls of this after it crashed.

• 5:35:23Speaker 06

  It was like, uh,

• 5:35:27Speaker 06

  hair, hair like stuff came out of the walls.

• 5:35:32Speaker 06

  And it tingled when you held it in your hands. And

• 5:35:37Speaker 06

  if you took it out at night, it would glow in the dark. And it did so. It glowed in the dark for like 25 years. Because some of these kids that stole parts of this stuff were putting it on their Christmas trees. For 25 years because it glowed in the dark.

• 5:35:57Speaker 06

  So that's not human manufacture, that's manufactured by somebody else. So it stands to reason that if Tic Tacs are being manufactured somewhere, it's probably on this planet because they're not able to travel into the vacuum of space. They're only able to travel high speeds on this planet. It may be that the people who manufactured the Tic Tacs live in certain areas on our planet that are unknown to us because that's what they've done for thousands of years. It's our arrival that changed everything.

• 5:36:41Speaker 06

  So what if these are the actual inhabitants of Earth from the very beginning? And we're not, we're the aliens. And we've come in and taken over the world. And now, all they have to deal with us over is how to convince us that they are something that we're afraid of. Not in reality are they capable of doing anything to anybody. They're harmless.

• 5:37:25Speaker 06

  But they were able to avoid us for a long time with their Tic Tacs because of the speed, their ability to change direction in a ninety-degree turn at high speeds, and their ability to go from air to water without making a splash, all that stuff.

• 5:37:49Speaker 06

  And so

• 5:37:52Speaker 06

  we're now predisposed to think that maybe these aliens, or whatever they are, have bases on our planet somewhere.

• 5:38:03Speaker 06

  Well, they may.

• 5:38:05Speaker 06

  These may be the very bases that we're talking about. I think if they do, then they're native to this planet. We're ultimately the invader. We're the ones who came in and just

• 5:38:21Speaker 06

  started taking things and taking it. Oh, yeah, taking it. You know, never stopped.

• 5:38:31Speaker 06

  It's a hard call to make and so some of my suggestions, I'm pretty sure, have been slow down, use my remote viewing carefully because you need to interpret it only as far as what it says, not implies. And I think a lot of people take my remote viewing and use it as it's implied, not as its actual limit, what it says.

• 5:39:07Speaker 06

  And that's an aggravation for me because it's an irritant, actually. It kind of makes me angry.

• 5:39:15Speaker 06

  When they leap to a conclusion and come to the conclusion that's, I said A, so A plus one must be true. Yeah, I don't know if I'm being

• 5:39:25Shawn Ryan?

  No, I know, I do understand what you're saying. You're basically saying that people are making assumptions based off the information that you're providing to them. Have you ever made your own assumptions off of your own information? Or have you always had the discipline to just see it for what it is?

• 5:39:41Speaker 06

  I try not to do that. It's hard not to, but I still try really hard not to.

• 5:39:50Speaker 06

  Because like I said, I

• 5:39:54Speaker 06

  I'm the only viewer that came out of the remote viewing program and went straight into a lab. I went right into Sarai International. And I worked there from around 1985 until it closed in 88. When they let me go in 88, I was hired immediately by Science Applications International Corporation. So I went right into that lab. I'm the only viewer that has voluntarily gone into all the labs and been challenged on my viewing and I've done my viewing under maximum controls. No, one other person did that.

• 5:40:35Speaker 06

  The only other person that's ever done that, going into the labs after they came out of the project, was a young lady named Angela Ford. And Angela Ford, while she was with the unit, was treated extremely badly. Now, I have to back this up by saying Angela Ford was a, I don't know, I think she was a GS 14 maybe. She was a GS employee of the government. She was a, an intelligence analyst in the, one of the highest positions you can have in the Pentagon as an analyst. And she became a remote viewer.

• 5:41:15Speaker 06

  She does her remote viewing with automatic writing. Because of that, because of the fact she was different and a woman in the project under Defense Intelligence Agency, she was called a witch and shoved into a side room and hardly anything ever done with her stuff. She got out of the project when it shut down in 88, I'm sorry, 95, 1995, and came straight into the lab. And she's done fat, unbelievable stuff in the lab because she's being honored, she's being respected.

• 5:42:00Speaker 06

  She's being given the same things I'm being given, and she does extremely well in that. So I have to say that like, a lot of her stuff has been misused, misidentified, unused, ignored.

• 5:42:22Speaker 06

  You know, all these things because she wasn't saying things to support what they were looking for.

• 5:42:31Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have contact with her?

• 5:42:33Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 5:42:34Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think she would be interested in doing an interview?

• 5:42:36Speaker 06

  Sure. I believe she would.

• 5:42:39Shawn Ryan?

  I would love to interview her.

• 5:42:40Speaker 06

  Okay, I'll put you together with her.

• 5:42:44Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 5:42:44Speaker 06

  When I get back, I will send her an email, talk to her on the phone, and then give you her address and everything when she gives me permission to do that.

• 5:42:53Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 5:42:54Speaker 06

  Uh, she's

• 5:42:56Speaker 06

  she's really good. I, I bring her in on my remote viewing training that I do at the Monroe Institute. I bring her in for one night to answer questions.

• 5:43:09Speaker 06

  And she has fun with those, let me tell you. She, I'll tell you something she did.

• 5:43:19Speaker 06

  First, like the first week in the lab, they had a, uh, a US Customs Agent

• 5:43:29Speaker 06

  who took $2 million. It was supposedly earmarked for something. He just stole it and disappeared.

• 5:43:41Speaker 06

  So the FBI was really after this guy. And he was on a most wanted list and all that sort of thing. But they, it was dead a winner when this happened. And so they were absolutely positive since he loved the Bahamas. He's in the islands. He went down there, he probably bought a boat.

• 5:44:02Speaker 06

  He's living in the islands. She comes up with the fact he's in, I don't know,

• 5:44:09Speaker 06

  West

• 5:44:13Speaker 06

  Maldune, Iowa, or something.

• 5:44:17Speaker 06

  I can't even remember now. It was Wyoming or something like that. So she says, no, no, no, no, no. He's way out in Wyoming or something. Nobody believes her. Everybody's, uh, every psychic in the unit is talking about the Bahamas, Bimini, Nassau, you know, all these places.

• 5:44:40Speaker 06

  Because they're picking up on all this stuff. And she's saying, no, no, he's up north.

• 5:44:48Speaker 06

  Where all the parks are closed because the snow falls six feet deep.

• 5:44:54Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no, he hates the cold. He'd never go there. Not with two million dollars in his pocket.

• 5:45:01Speaker 06

  So. Huge argument entail. And so Defense Intelligence Agency. Is nervous about. All the psychics saying Bahamas. And she's saying. East Poughkeepsie or something. Wyoming.

• 5:45:20Speaker 06

  So she gets more specific. They go back to her and say. Why do you say that? Well, he's. Staying in a place that's right behind a. Uh, Native American burial ground. It's right next to a national park. There's like six feet of snow on the ground and he's the only guy in this motel.

• 5:45:43Speaker 06

  Nobody believes it. But. Just in case. The FBI FBI sends a wanted poster. Out to all the park. Places in the. Extreme Northwest. That's buried under snow.

• 5:46:04Speaker 06

  Park ranger remembers having breakfast with him, the only two people in the entire African world eating breakfast together. In this drive up diner. In Wyoming or wherever it was. So. He gets the the fax on his machine. As soon as he gets to work, he turns around, he goes back. With a state trooper and they arrest the guy.

• 5:46:29Shawn Ryan?

  No way.

• 5:46:30Speaker 06

  Yeah. In Poughkeepsie or Wyoming or wherever it was. And they arrest him. In this motel. Behind which is an Indian burial ground. And it's adjacent to a park. I think she was even more specific about what kind of park. And. It's like. She gets no credit at all for.

• 5:46:57Speaker 06

  Until they're talking about it. The great job the FBI did on the news one night. And somebody calls in from the park service. That's not how it happened. That's not how it happened. They sent us a wanted poster on him. Our guy from the park service actually had breakfast with him and got a state trooper and they arrested him and turned him over to the FBI. The FBI had no idea he was here.

• 5:47:38Speaker 06

  And the only reason the park service sent out the all wanted, all points wanted bulletin was because she said so. Wow. That all came home to roost. And so she walked around like the queen bee for about a week. Good for her. Yeah, good for her. But you gotta, if you talk to her, you gotta talk to her about the missing guy with the bunny. I will. She just kept stating over and over. And she gets all this by automatic writing. Wow. Absolutely brilliant young lady. I would love to have a conversation with her as well.

• 5:48:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, you'd enjoy it. She had an identical twin sister and they were both as good as, one was as good as the other. Interesting. And you had a twin? No, she did too. Identical twin. I didn't have an identical twin. I had a female twin. And, uh, but her sister was as psychic as she was, but her sister's dead now. And she's retired now, but, uh, and they, and they treated her like crap. And I mean, she was one of the top analysts. Man. In the Pentagon. And she wanted to come into that unit.

• 5:49:04Speaker 06

  She, I mean, she volunteered to come into that unit because she knew she had something to offer. And she did, and she still does. And we still use her in the labs. She's that, she's that good. I mean, she's really a good, uh, good person.

• 5:49:22Shawn Ryan?

  Well, thank you for sharing that.

• 5:49:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:49:25Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Joe, we're wrapping up the interview and I have one more viewing and I

• 5:49:34Shawn Ryan?

  I want to say that I'm very reluctant to ask this question.

• 5:49:38Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 5:49:40Speaker 06

  Go ahead and ask it anyway. I couldn't leave here without answering.

• 5:49:45Shawn Ryan?

  Today's your 78th birthday.

• 5:49:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:49:49Speaker 06

  In all its majesty.

• 5:49:51Shawn Ryan?

  It, it, it is my understanding that you may have remote viewed your own death.

• 5:50:00Shawn Ryan?

  And that it happens at age 78.

• 5:50:04Speaker 06

  I don't know about that, 78. I did, I did have an incident when I went to Vietnam.

• 5:50:15Speaker 06

  Where I, I thought I saw my imminent death. And it turned out to be a huge assumption on my part. It happened exactly as I saw it. But it was an assumption.

• 5:50:27Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:50:28Speaker 06

  So.

• 5:50:34Speaker 06

  What I think might be misconstrued here is I had a, um.

• 5:50:44Speaker 06

  I had a problem with a, an infection

• 5:50:49Speaker 06

  from one of my hospital surgeries.

• 5:50:53Speaker 06

  And.

• 5:50:58Speaker 06

  I went up to New York.

• 5:51:02Speaker 06

  I, I, this was when I was 72.

• 5:51:06Speaker 06

  I went up to New York because I got my degree. I graduated with this big crowd of young kids.

• 5:51:14Speaker 06

  But it was right after I had a back surgery and uh in my spinal surgery. They had a a lot of staples down in my back and. One was inverted. It was backwards and they couldn't get it out and. I think somebody was back there messing with it, trying to get it out. And I said, I hope you're wearing gloves so you scrub your hands real good.

• 5:51:40Speaker 06

  And she got them walked out and never saw her again. We stole each other's things. But anyway. The doctor came out with a pair of gloves on and just took a pair of pliers and jerked it out.

• 5:51:54Speaker 06

  So we went ahead up to New York and I graduated. The next morning when I woke up, I had a really bad.

• 5:52:02Speaker 06

  In this infection showing on the sheet in the hotel. So my lovely wife drove me straight back to University of Virginia Hospital.

• 5:52:16Speaker 06

  And I went into emergency room. And they they couldn't find an open OR.

• 5:52:26Speaker 06

  I was in the emergency room a long time. Uh many, many, many hours and I was getting weaker and weaker. My body was just racked with this infection.

• 5:52:38Speaker 06

  Turned out it was a uh. Staphylococcus aureus or something like that. Anyway, it was just it was a terrible infection. I was running out of energy, so they wanted me to do an MRI.

• 5:52:55Speaker 06

  And uh. Well, just before the MRI, I was getting weaker and weaker and I said, uh. In my mind, I felt like I was standing on a pad of tiles and they were falling away one at a time. And I viewed that as my energy going out. And I got to a point where only my feet. Were standing on tiles.

• 5:53:24Speaker 06

  And I came to the conclusion that. It'd just be so easy to step across and not be there anymore. And so I was contemplating this because I was I was done.

• 5:53:42Speaker 06

  In this, I felt this hand grab my arm.

• 5:53:47Speaker 06

  It was my wife. And she whispered at me, she said, "Don't you dare leave me." And I went,

• 5:53:59Speaker 06

  so I started stealing energy from as many places and people as I could.

• 5:54:05Speaker 06

  So they put me in an MRI and halfway through the MRI, I started hallucinating. So I said,

• 5:54:12Speaker 06

  "Gotta get me out of here." And the doctor chided me, he said, "I thought you were a tough old army guy, that you could deal with an MRI." And I said, "I can normally, but I'm hallucinating." So I know my temperature is about as high as it's gonna go.

• 5:54:28Speaker 06

  And he said, "Nevertheless, you should have finished your MRI." So when I came out of the MRI,

• 5:54:36Speaker 06

  the nurse came over and rubbed one of those temperature things on my head.

• 5:54:43Speaker 06

  And she turned to the doc, she said, "He's not wrong, it's a hundred and seven."

• 5:54:49Speaker 06

  They found him in the OR room immediately and reopened everything that they had done on my spine and washed it all out with antibiotics and pumped antibiotics into me for months and finally killed all that stuff. That's probably the closest I've come.

• 5:55:12Speaker 06

  Vietnam, when I got off the plane, when I arrived in Vietnam, and I stepped off the C-130, you know, I come off that back ramp. When my foot hit the ground, I saw myself dying in a flash of white light.

• 5:55:31Speaker 06

  I knew, "That's it, that's how I'm gonna go." And I turned around and I told the guy behind me and they just opened up a space. Guy, nobody wanted to be close to me after I told them that. So.

• 5:55:56Speaker 06

  I go through a whole time of Vietnam and nothing happened. Well, I had a few close ones, but, you know, rattled me a little bit, but I didn't die of a, I turned around, so.

• 5:56:14Speaker 06

  I get ready to leave Vietnam.

• 5:56:18Speaker 06

  And I'd also had a vision. That I'd be leaving on a bright yellow plane called the Canary Plane or something. And I said, that's not possible.

• 5:56:32Speaker 06

  So I get to the airport and I'm leaving Vietnam and it says, uh, you're flying on one of those new Brainiff planes. They, you know, they're pastel colors and yours is a Canary Yellow. It's called, uh, Big Bird or something.

• 5:56:50Speaker 06

  So I flew out on the Canary Yellow plane. So that came true too. But the explosion didn't. I couldn't figure that out till I had my near-death experience in Austria when I was enveloped in a white light. I went.

• 5:57:07Speaker 06

  Here it is. I'm in it.

• 5:57:11Speaker 06

  I was like, yeah, I saw that coming in Vietnam. I misinterpreted it. Oh, good. Okay.

• 5:57:23Speaker 06

  The only thing I might have said that would have brought that out of someone.

• 5:57:29Speaker 06

  Would be at some of my talks when people say.

• 5:57:35Speaker 06

  Well, how long do you plan on doing this? Or how long do you plan on being here or whatever, that sort of thing? Sometimes my comment is. Who knows? I could go going home. I could get nailed by somebody going home.

• 5:57:54Speaker 06

  Or I could just drop dead right in front of you.

• 5:58:00Speaker 06

  And they all get a laugh out of that, but they're not sure if I'm telling the truth or not. And it doesn't matter. No, that matters. The fact of the matter is, I've come so close to death so many times, that I've reached a point where my understanding is, I'm still here simply because I'm not through doing whatever I'm doing. So, that may be interpreted as when I'm saying I'm quitting the remote viewing work, as, well, now he's done. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, I'm not doing remote viewing anymore.

• 5:58:43Speaker 06

  I'll, I'll teach remote viewing at the Monroe Institute as long as they'll have me. Or I give talks there anytime they want them. Or I do webinars for them. Anything that supports that place, I'll do until they're throwing dirt on my face in the ground, because that's how I feel about it. And a lot of that may be misinterpreted by some who think, oh my God, he's gonna die on us. No, usually what I tell them is, if I drop dead in the next two minutes, it's not important. What's important is that I, that happens while I'm doing something I like to do. Then it's okay.

• 5:59:25Speaker 06

  If I was doing something I hated with a passion and it happened, oh God, what a waste that would have been. You know, that kind of thing. I, I, I don't worry about that stuff anymore. When you're 78, don't give a shit, it's okay. I'm, I just wanna enjoy what I do. Yeah.

• 5:59:50Shawn Ryan?

  I just, uh, somebody had told me that and um, we have rescheduled. And uh, when I found out that the rescheduled date was on your 78th birthday.

• 6:00:04Speaker 06

  You thought?

• 6:00:05Shawn Ryan?

  I was like, whoa.

• 6:00:07Speaker 06

  Whoa, yeah.

• 6:00:08Shawn Ryan?

  Whoa.

• 6:00:08Speaker 06

  What if he like just goes to sleep in the chair?

• 6:00:11Shawn Ryan?

  Is this a self fulfilling prophecy? But um.

• 6:00:14Speaker 06

  Well, that would be something cool to catch.

• 6:00:17Shawn Ryan?

  I would rather that not happen, Joe. But um, do you, do you fear death at all?

• 6:00:24Speaker 06

  No, I have absolutely no fear of death. Never have, actually, uh, since my near death experience.

• 6:00:31Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think happens?

• 6:00:34Speaker 06

  What I, what I think happens, uh, it's like I have no absolute belief in heaven or hell. I think we just progress into a new form of what we are.

• 6:00:48Speaker 06

  And I think the real surprise, heaven, what heaven and hell is.

• 6:00:57Speaker 06

  I've given a lot of thought to this.

• 6:01:03Speaker 06

  If when you're dead, you find out that all the people you lived and interacted with are all part of you.

• 6:01:17Speaker 06

  The reason that would be a good thing is because if we, if we as entities learn by experience,

• 6:01:27Speaker 06

  there's no way knowing that the experience is valid or not, if all we're getting is our perception of it.

• 6:01:36Speaker 06

  The only way you can know if experience was valid and had something beneficial generated by it, would be if we were not only the person in the experience, but all persons in the experience. In other words, we would have to have every perspective of all the people we care about that we're part of in that experience.

• 6:02:03Speaker 06

  So in death, I would welcome the fact of knowing that all the people I was heavily engaged with my entire life were all were all just extensions of me. That's the only way of getting every perspective of every action you've ever taken would be to have the perceptions of all those you care most for or you care about, or you're part of, or you're family with, or you worked with, or all of that. And I think that's true. I think that's what we find out. That's the big surprise at death.

• 6:02:43Speaker 06

  Everything we experienced has been perceived and we get all of those perceived experiences from everybody that we've ever been part of. So in a holistic sense, we're not just us. We're all the people we've lived lived with and cared about. So I cannot imagine a worse hell than to treat people like shit your whole life and to find out all the damage you did and not be able to rectify that. To feel their pain.

• 6:03:27Speaker 06

  Everything, all the pain and all the bad experience and all the the frustration and upset that you've given the sickness that you've delivered to them. Not be able to fix it and know that it was just the major part of you. I think that's hell and whatever. And and not so much the other. I think heaven is knowing that you did everything you possibly could to soften the impact of life on the people you care about. The people that are important to you in your entire lifetime.

• 6:04:18Speaker 06

  So people have a way of making up for their failures by realizing that and understanding that it's not just them, it's everybody they're in contact with. When they, when they do something to themselves to denigrate themselves, they're doing it to all the people who care about them. They're all part of the same, you're all part of the same person, the same entity.

• 6:04:47Shawn Ryan?

  One ecosystem.

• 6:04:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. It's a learning system. And I think the only way to really learn is to know all the perceptions that people who cared about you had when you did A or B or C. The only way to learn from it is to know what was wrong about it, what was right about it, how it affected people that were observing it. I, I think that's true learning. And that may, that may be a design. I don't think it's a flaw, I think it's a design in the reality of which we all part of something larger.

• 6:05:32Speaker 06

  And you can call it God or whatever you want, but it's something much larger. And it, and it deals with all possibilities. I mean, there's lots of people that exist. I say people, there's lots of entities that exist across the cosmos. What if all that's true? We think very little of ourselves if we act the way we are versus being better at it or greater at it or, I don't know.

• 6:06:16Speaker 06

  Pay attention.

• 6:06:20Shawn Ryan?

  That's some deep thought. And that's the first time I've ever heard that and that makes a hell of a lot of sense.

• 6:06:27Speaker 06

  Well, it makes sense to me.

• 6:06:29Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 6:06:31Speaker 06

  Anyway. You're welcome.

• 6:06:34Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, just that, uh, that segment alone is motivation for people to do the right thing.

• 6:06:42Speaker 06

  One would hope so. There are still those that think that's better.

• 6:06:49Speaker 06

  More power is better. And why do I want to get involved in that foolishness? Well, they'll find out.

• 6:06:58Speaker 06

  I think that's hell.

• 6:07:01Speaker 06

  Hell to pay.

• 6:07:03Speaker 06

  That's what it is later.

• 6:07:07Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 6:07:09Shawn Ryan?

  Well, Joe.

• 6:07:12Shawn Ryan?

  I just want to say thank you.

• 6:07:13Speaker 06

  Oh, you're welcome.

• 6:07:14Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for coming on and sharing everything that you've shared and, um, is the Monroe Institute?

• 6:07:23Speaker 06

  Oh, it's great.

• 6:07:24Shawn Ryan?

  Is that open enrollment? Can anybody sign up?

• 6:07:26Speaker 06

  Oh, anybody can sign up. You can come anytime you want. Take a gateway.

• 6:07:30Shawn Ryan?

  I hope you're ready. There's gonna be a lot of people coming.

• 6:07:34Speaker 06

  And I, I won't even acknowledge your presence when I see you. I'll just go, who the hell are you? Don't I know you're somewhere?

• 6:07:44Speaker 06

  You'll have a great time. I guarantee it.

• 6:07:46Shawn Ryan?

  I would love to come.

• 6:07:47Speaker 06

  And you'll learn a lot about yourself.

• 6:07:50Shawn Ryan?

  I would love that, too.

• 6:07:51Speaker 06

  And other people that you never thought you would get along with.

• 6:07:55Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I hope to see you there.

• 6:07:58Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 6:07:58Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 6:07:59Speaker 06

  You will. I'll be around.

• 6:08:01Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. But, um, I will, uh, link the Monroe Institute in the description and, um,

• 6:08:08Speaker 06

  Great.

• 6:08:09Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, once again, Joe, it's just, it was, I don't say this lightly, um, it's an honor to have you here and to get to know you and to hear about your experiences as you've

• 6:08:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:08:23Shawn Ryan?

  experienced life and, and, um, just thank you.

• 6:08:27Speaker 06

  You're welcome.

• 6:08:28Shawn Ryan?

  It was, and, and, and your lovely wife, too.

• 6:08:30Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:08:31Shawn Ryan?

  It was amazing to meet her.

• 6:08:32Speaker 06

  I'll leave her out. I wouldn't be in this if I, I'd be long gone, I think, actually.

• 6:08:41Speaker 06

  Be hard to deal with life without it. Yeah, yeah.

• 6:08:47Speaker 06

  Think I'd volunteer for that one-way mission. You know, I, I once asked her if I could write a letter to NASA and volunteer for the Mars mission.

• 6:08:58Speaker 06

  No, listen, I have enough, I have enough artificial body now that I'd probably survive on Mars.

• 6:09:08Speaker 06

  She'd kill me for saying that, but.

• 6:09:12Speaker 06

  Well, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. All right. I'll take care.

• 6:09:31Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me.

• 6:09:41Speaker 02

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 6:09:48Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing to death, that's what.

• 6:09:52Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 6:09:56Speaker 03

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 6:09:57Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.