Finding Your Rhythm with Questlove

This week, legendary musician, producer, and filmmaker Questlove joins the show to reflect on a lifetime shaped by music. Questlove shares how he discovered his passion for drumming at an early age, the experiences that led to the formation of The Roots, and the unforgettable jam sessions that brought some of music’s biggest names together. He also talks about his latest documentary “Earth, Wind & Fire (To Be Celestial vs That's the Weight of the World)" which is out now. In this episode: Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Chief Medical Officer, of Midi Health. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Basically, like, I lied to a girl, like, I was like the cutest girl in school and, you know, I inserted myself in the conversation like, "No, no, that was the wrong Prince song. It was this song from 1940." No, no, no, no, no.

• 0:14Michelle Obama?

  You're coming in with your little nerdy self.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were like, "Ew, no one asked you." And like, one of them finally bit the bait like, "Well, what do you mean?" I said, "Well, we sampled it last night." "Who sampled it?" "Oh, you know, me and my group." "What group?"

• 0:32Speaker 00

  "Him." And, you know, Tariq was just like sitting by himself eating a bagel or whatever. And I went to fourth-period class, which is in the basement. And mid rehearsal, I was like, "I better cover my lie." And it's seven flights up with no elevator. So literally running upstairs, and I just told him, I said, "If anyone asks you, we're a group." And he was just like, "Okay." And that's how the group.

• 1:19Michelle Obama?

  Hey. Hi, Craig Robinson.

• 1:21Craig Robinson?

  I'm Michelle Obama.

• 1:24Michelle Obama?

  What are you looking forward to?

• 1:26Craig Robinson?

  I'm looking forward to the season starting for the boys because they're both in high school and I'm the assistant coach. This is, it could be great and it could be a disaster.

• 1:35Michelle Obama?

  I can't wait to hear.

• 1:36Craig Robinson?

  But I'm, you know, I thought you were talking about what am I looking for today, obviously.

• 1:40Michelle Obama?

  Yes, we are both looking forward to.

• 1:42Craig Robinson?

  Man, let me tell you.

• 1:43Michelle Obama?

  Amir Johnson, Thompson, why am I saying Johnson? Either or.

• 1:51Michelle Obama?

  My dear, dear friend Amir, who I'm calling Johnson.

• 1:55Craig Robinson?

  Johnson? Yes, but that's okay, hey.

• 1:57Michelle Obama?

  Better known to the world as the one and only Questlove is here with us today.

• 2:03Craig Robinson?

  Well, it's so, it's exciting, it's intimidating, and I was.

• 2:08Michelle Obama?

  Are you intimidated?

• 2:09Craig Robinson?

  Well, here, let me tell you why, Mish, because you.

• 2:12Michelle Obama?

  Amir, he's intimidated.

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  Let me tell you. He said he can't believe it. But I, the way I envision this is I listen to music. You hear music and you've always heard music.

• 2:25Michelle Obama?

  Who, me?

• 2:26Craig Robinson?

  Yes, from a young age. And I always use the example of, you know, when you got your first album, Stevie Wonder, you were like, you hear these, Talking Book, you're like, you hear these lyrics, you hear this. And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, I hear these lyrics just fine. Volume is right where I want it." And, you know, I'm like more of a, I like beats, I like beats, right? But you like everything music, you like the history, like you, you, whenever I come to your house and music's always on, it's just like, for me, when I DJed, all I saw was how am I gonna keep people dancing?

• 3:07Craig Robinson?

  And, and, you know, you got Questlove, I'm even embarrassed to say I DJ.

• 3:12Michelle Obama?

  Is this why you're intimidated? Because you feel like you're a dullard?

• 3:15Craig Robinson?

  I'm a dull, I'm a, I feel like a knucklehead.

• 3:21Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's get him out here, give, why don't you properly introduce him?

• 3:25Craig Robinson?

  Yes, Amir Questlove Thompson, not Johnson, is a six-time Grammy winner, Academy Award-winning, and Emmy-nominated filmmaker, New York Times bestselling author, DJ, and cultural polymath. He's a member of Philadelphia's influential hip-hop group, The Roots, which I really love because they used to be, they were called The Square Roots. And you know me being a math guy, I just, I just love the fact that they were called The Square Roots. I didn't know that until we were doing the research.

• 4:03Craig Robinson?

  And is the musical director for The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon. Most recently, Questlove directed the acclaimed documentary of my favorite group, Earth, Wind, and Fire, to be celestial versus the weight of the world. So it is, it is our honor to welcome Amir Questlove Thompson to the set.

• 4:28Speaker 00

  Greetings, good people, hello. I don't know who I rap for. Yes, I'll be, Johnson, how you doing?

• 4:35Craig Robinson?

  It's great to meet you.

• 4:37Michelle Obama?

  Hi, sweetie.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  It's great to be here.

• 4:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Hey, busy man, the busiest man on the planet.

• 4:43Craig Robinson?

  So every time I have seen you, we haven't had a chance to meet because you are always working. And the closest I got to meeting you was at Barack's 60th birthday party.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:56Craig Robinson?

  But you, you could, you walked past me, I was like, "Questlove, I'm Craig Robinson. It's very nice to meet you." He was like, "Hi," and you kept walking because you were performing, you were DJing.

• 5:06Michelle Obama?

  He wasn't just performing, he was directing all the entertainment.

• 5:09Craig Robinson?

  Directing all the music. And you were, you had, you were doing food.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I forgot, yeah.

• 5:16Craig Robinson?

  You, you were doing, we had cheese, your late-night cheesesteaks.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:22Craig Robinson?

  And I was like, "Well, I don't think he knows who I am."

• 5:25Speaker 00

  I'm very much aware of who you are.

• 5:27Craig Robinson?

  But I just wanted to tell you, you do not have to do everything she says.

• 5:33Craig Robinson?

  You can come to a party and like enjoy yourself.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  I know, you wanna know something?

• 5:37Michelle Obama?

  He can't.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Um, here's the thing, one of the, one of the myths, not the myths, I'll own it, that, you know, there's a part of me, you know, I'm Generation X. And of course, when you're raised in the boomer generation, my parents, my uncles, my, you know, hard work, hard work was always the thing.

• 5:59Michelle Obama?

  But we're gonna talk more about the amazing work that you've done protecting the legacy of so many artists that we love, and I wanna spend some time on that. But, you know, I wanna talk about you, you.

• 6:16Michelle Obama?

  Because you are such a fascinating little brain.

• 6:20Craig Robinson?

  That's the perfect word.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 6:23Michelle Obama?

  I mean, and I've known you for a while, but we really never get a chance to just sit down and.

• 6:29Craig Robinson?

  Cause you always have him working.

• 6:31Michelle Obama?

  Well, because he's always working.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Cause I wanna, like, my gift is bringing music to people, so I enjoy that.

• 6:37Michelle Obama?

  And that's your, that's your comfort zone, you know? That's your gift, that's your, that's your love language, you know? But just reading your memoir, which is beautifully done, I mean, I love the way you created a different approach to telling your story, including other voices, you know? It's almost like a muse on your life, you know? You were ruminating in many ways, and it really worked well. But I didn't realize how unusually obsessed you were about music at such a young age.

• 7:16Michelle Obama?

  I mean, the way you talked about even thinking in terms of circles and things that spun and your relationship to records, can you talk a bit about young, your early relationship to music?

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Okay, so this is weird, this is the first time I'm gonna tell this story from the perspective of, like, kind of quasi-disclosure. I decided to get tested for autism, ADHD, like, a year and a half ago.

• 7:47Craig Robinson?

  Oh, okay.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  Which I highly recommend to a lot of us that might be avoidant on those things. So, you know, in always telling my story, I kinda lived under the umbrella of framing myself as like the outcast, or the black sheep, or the weirdo, or the family, you know, like the one that you're not too sure about. My mom tells me the story, she tells me the story once about my aunt babysitting me, and they would notice that I was transfixed by things that rotate in the circle.

• 8:24Craig Robinson?

  And were you a baby then?

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Oh, absolute baby.

• 8:27Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Like, I was one or two.

• 8:28Craig Robinson?

  Yep.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Whenever, well, I was told I never gave much trouble, like, they would rotate, I had a circular spinning light above my bed, and you turn that on and instantly that calms me, or I guess you could say it's like a stimmy or that sort of thing. And so, they noticed that whenever they would put records on the turntable, I would just sit there and watch it rotate. And my aunt, one day, decided to test something, she put the record on the record player, and she's like, "He stood there for 20 minutes and watched it, but I didn't play the music yet." And he just stood there like. And so, and, you know, I even joke that half the music that I gravitated toward was

• 9:14Speaker 00

  based on how the label looked rotating.

• 9:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yep.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  So, I wasn't, I joke that I was never a fan of the Capitol Records logo, so I was like late to discovering The Beatles and Natalie Cole.

• 9:28Michelle Obama?

  Right, he's like, the logo just didn't speak to you.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  I'll punish your whole catalog if I don't like the way your logo looks like on the, on the turntable. But, you know, my, both my mom and dad, my father was a kinda oldies doo-wop legend of the 50s. And so, I also believe that I'm the last of the generation of parents that don't trust babysitters.

• 9:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  So I was, I was pretty much a farmhand.

• 9:57Michelle Obama?

  We never had a babysitter.

• 9:57Craig Robinson?

  We never had a babysitter, and our kids have rarely had a babysitter.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  So, did you have to go to work with your parents or like just?

• 10:06Craig Robinson?

  No, they just didn't go anywhere. They didn't go anywhere.

• 10:10Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 10:10Craig Robinson?

  My parents did not go out.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, when I, when I tell this to musicians today, like, they're like, "Wait a minute, you're trying to tell us as an 11-year-old, you were in these nightclubs with your parents?" And I was working, like, as a kid, I kinda guess I became default production assistant, maybe production manager. So, ringing out monitors.

• 10:34Michelle Obama?

  Like at seven?

• 10:35Craig Robinson?

  At seven years old.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I mean, starting at seven, by the time I was 10 or 11, I was operating the lights, the monitors, and then my dad's drummer gets into a motorcycle accident at Radio City Music Hall, and, you know, my dad was a lady because he found a cheaper option than me, so.

• 10:59Craig Robinson?

  And you had been taking drum, or practicing drums, or taking, I don't know if someone like you took lessons?

• 11:06Speaker 00

  My mom says by the age of two, I was notating rhythm. So, pretty much, I could play drums like an adult by six, by the age of six or seven.

• 11:17Michelle Obama?

  That's unusual.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Well, it just seemed normal to me.

• 11:21Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  And you look now on, on social media, I'll see two, three year olders like navigating. But yeah, by 12, I became the drummer and the bandleader. And then I pretty much stayed in that position until like my first show was at Radio City Music Hall. And I think my, the last show I did, my dad was at Madison Square Garden. And then the next day, The Roots exiled to, we didn't exile, we pulled the, what I call pull a Hendrix, which is we wanted to move to England and conquer Europe and then come back to the States.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Once we became, uh, once we were fit, we, we went to the gym.

• 12:07Michelle Obama?

  To get.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but yeah, my life, pretty much, I will say that we had about 3,000 albums in the household. So I really wasn't an outside person.

• 12:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And I wasn't either, you know, it took me a while to become an outside kid. And I loved to spend time reading with music, with albums, which is what Craig said. I, he, what did you say? You heard music?

• 12:38Craig Robinson?

  To music, but you heard music.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Absorbed it.

• 12:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I absorbed it.

• 12:42Craig Robinson?

  I was just on the periphery and you were deep in it.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Well, it's funny, you mentioned, you said that Talking Book was your first album. I mean, as of this recording that we're doing right now, I believe that in two days will be the 50th anniversary of Songs in the Key of Life.

• 13:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  And that, that day is seminal to me because um, my um, teacher, my music teacher, I think her name was Ms. LaWynn, uh, was basically like, you know, have your mommy and daddy. And she pulled out, she pulled out this record and to me, I always joke with Stevie that um, the cover to me, first question I asked was, did an adult describe to you what the cover of Songs in the Key of Life was?

• 13:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's a good question.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  And I was like, cause to me, at this five year older in me was like, he looks like he's drowning in donuts.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Or those uh, those Swedish cookies that later become the sewing kit.

• 13:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  You know, the perfect circle thing.

• 13:58Michelle Obama?

  Right, right, yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it would be so transfixed because it's such a, it's not like a negative photo or whatever, but it's a very unusual, like, how would you, how would you explain to Stevie Wonder, what is album cover to one of the greatest albums ever?

• 14:15Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Um, it's, it's a very unusual album cover and it had me transfixed. And um, you know, the day we brought this record, um, I can only describe it, maybe for black households. It was like, um, if you ever heard someone of age describe, uh, when they were a kid and first heard Orson Welles' War of the Worlds on the radio?

• 14:39Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  And how they thought like aliens were gonna land.

• 14:42Craig Robinson?

  It was a real, it was like a live broadcast.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, they thought it was real, like aliens are coming to get us. And so I just remember us sitting in front of the stereo for all four sides and the 45 and just, and.

• 14:56Michelle Obama?

  And the 45, wasn't that a trip?

• 14:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:59Michelle Obama?

  The fact that it's like, there was so much music.

• 15:01Craig Robinson?

  Do we need to explain to our listeners?

• 15:04Michelle Obama?

  What a 45 is, yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 00

  It was extras, basically it was a box set.

• 15:08Craig Robinson?

  It was a box set, but it was a smaller, it was a smaller record.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  A smaller disc with four songs on it.

• 15:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  Um, weird enough, I will say the element that really attracted me were the liner notes. It came with a 17 page booklet.

• 15:23Michelle Obama?

  I lived with those. I mean, I just sat with them like a book.

• 15:28Craig Robinson?

  You took them to the bathroom when you went to the bathroom?

• 15:31Michelle Obama?

  Thank you, Craig.

• 15:33Craig Robinson?

  She did.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Dude, bathroom, I mean, every, every book I've ever written in life, I promise you 70% of it was in the bathroom.

• 15:39Michelle Obama?

  That and the Sears catalog.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  And I won't TMI you any further, so.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  No, the bathroom is the best office ever. I will, no, I, I will say that um, probably when people ask like, what's, what's Stevie Wonder's biggest influence on you? The first, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, first seven Roots albums.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Volume wise, probably had more liner notes than like lyrics.

• 16:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Or facts about the album.

• 16:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Like pretty much the, the, I would not only give you the credits of who played on what, I would keep a small diary from soup to nuts, how these songs got created, so.

• 16:25Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that was my experience.

• 16:27Michelle Obama?

  For you, that your, your deep dive into music came from your, your personality and what you preferred and your obsession. And for me, with that came like the whole setup of how you learned to take in music when you were little. Like, there was always a music setup in our households and rites and rituals and do's and don'ts. Because it was also my father who was a collector, my grandfather who was a collector. I'm just wondering, did you have that same thing growing up?

• 17:01Speaker 00

  I want to dispel a myth and hopefully it'll reach the, the biggest ripple on this platform. Cause I, you know, I don't want to do the revisionist thing where like, I want to leave you with, under the impression that I came out the womb with this mental level of, oh man, you still listen to the Duke Ellingtons? You know, fifth movement of da, da, da, da, da. When you said do's and don'ts, I was like, oh, okay, that's where I come in. Because, you know, the number one rule of my house was don't touch my stereo.

• 17:30Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay. So that part's normal.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  Ellipses.

• 17:35Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  Or else. And never wanting to test what or else meant. You know, I will say that for at least the first, until I got my own turntable, like at 11 or 12 or whatever, like, yeah, I lived 11 years of patience, but I didn't mind it, you know?

• 17:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  I, I will say that kind of remote control culture kind of ruined us in 83, like, once we all got

• 18:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  VCRs and once CDs came into play and you could start skipping.

• 18:08Craig Robinson?

  Yes, that's about, but I wanted to ask you, so to get back to Misha's point about how you thought as a youngster? Cause I'm fascinated because I'm trying to think about, so if your parents had been, been scientists, would you have been a scientist? Like, did you ever?

• 18:30Speaker 00

  I believe, I believe I got tricked into the family business.

• 18:37Michelle Obama?

  Now, you're touring with your, your parents, because babysitters aren't allowed. Um, and then you're, you're out there in this interesting adult world, you know? Um, steaming your dead suits, playing the drums, moving an amp, staying it. Like, you even knew hotel culture.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:56Michelle Obama?

  As a young person.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, man.

• 18:58Michelle Obama?

  Like, the ice machine and all these things that nobody in West Philly was living.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  Um, yeah.

• 19:05Michelle Obama?

  And you had to come back. Yeah, can, can you talk about?

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, my mom, I think my mom noticed early, um, how to save me, like, no, no one likes a know it all snob. You know, and what six year old knows about like water cur sandwiches in first class or, you know? You know, like when you fly over the, and you go over, and the kids are looking at me like, what are you talking about fly? Like, you know, we went to Puerto Rico last week and we experienced this and that.

• 19:38Michelle Obama?

  You're just talking about your life.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I, I didn't realize, um, I didn't realize then how, you know, there might be some kids that might not get off the block.

• 19:51Craig Robinson?

  Right, right.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  You know?

• 19:53Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  Let alone be here in two years, because, you know, mind you, I also grew up in the crack 80s. So that, that was something to, you know, to, to, to survive and, and, and escape through.

• 20:15Craig Robinson?

  We're heading to Tokyo this winter and I'm so excited. I was there once before, but only for about 24 hours. So I feel like I barely scratched the surface. This time, I really want to experience Tokyo beyond just checking the big sights off the list. I've heard the best way to take in the city is to slow down, wander the neighborhoods, find the local ramen spots and markets, and just see where the day takes you. I'd love to see and feel the people and places like the locals do. That's been true for me wherever I've traveled. I want to see the big sights, of course, but what I really remember most is the stuff that happened in between. The little hidden restaurants you stumble into, the people watching.

• 20:59Craig Robinson?

  It's all part of what makes a city unique. And if you're lucky enough to be doing some traveling yourself, remember that your home doesn't necessarily have to sit empty while you're gone. You can list your space on Airbnb while you're away. It's a pretty cool way to make a little extra money that you can put toward your next trip, while also giving somebody else a place to stay and a chance to really see your city. They can get out, walk around the neighborhood, find the spots you love, and experience the place the way you do. Because honestly, that's when you really get to know a city, when you experience it like a local. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 21:44Michelle Obama?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by our sponsor, Midi Health. I remember, it was first term in the White House, and they just would come on. And I talked to my doctor about it. It's like, oh, you're in. That's what's going on. And I wasn't sure. You know, I didn't feel like I needed to start taking hormones. I wanted to feel it out and see what it felt like. But these hot flashes were happening every 15 minutes. You know, and it's this rush of a feeling. I mean, the minute I started replacing hormones, it was like back to my old self. And, you know, you think it's magic, but you're losing hormones. And you need them replaced.

• 22:24Michelle Obama?

  But there was so much confusion around the pros and cons of hormone replacement therapy.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Hormone therapy is safe for most women, actually. But I want to be clear that hormone therapy is not for all women. And it's also not the only answer. Like, menopause care is a much bigger thing. It's about supporting women in a multitude of ways. And that's really why I helped found Midi, and why we treat all these women at Midi Health. Midi Health is a telehealth clinic made for women. And we really were founded to really meet the huge care gap for women in perimenopause and menopause, which means we can help guide women through the hormone conversation. So you can go to our website, which is joinmidi.com. That's join M-I-D-I dot com. And really, the website helps you navigate. You can book an appointment right there. You start your journey there.

• 23:15Craig Robinson?

  I feel like every year, I tell myself, I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm going to have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early. And then somehow, the holidays still sneak up on me. So this year, I'm starting early. And it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year, I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's trickier for some than others. Like, I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kindle, but I might want to do a bit more research before I lock it in. Meanwhile, my kids are the easiest ones.

• 23:57Craig Robinson?

  I just get them whatever video game accessory nonsense that they're dying for right now. And Amazon makes it simple to get a head start on gifting without spending a fortune. Even something small can bring joy. The way I get excited to find a new ornament each year that represents something special from that year. You can find low prices across everything from fashion and fitness to toys, electronics, holiday decor, groceries, advent calendars, you name it. Get a head start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 24:42Michelle Obama?

  Were the drums always your instrument? Was there, you know, I mean, you talk about it. You were drawn to the circles and the spinning things and the, you know, that, and your natural rhythm.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  You know, I got a toy drum kit when I was three. And then I believe the story is, one of my dad's drummers kind of went AWOL.

• 25:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  And left his drum set. Greatest Christmas ever. So I inherited that drum set when I was like eight years old. And, yeah.

• 25:19Michelle Obama?

  And they let you play all day, all night.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Oh, they insisted I play. Like, I would pretty much.

• 25:25Michelle Obama?

  Because that was the cra- cra- wanted to play the drums.

• 25:28Craig Robinson?

  This is a tough story.

• 25:31Michelle Obama?

  Timing, it's too loud, it's too, you know. So when a kid is ready to play it, you know, it's like you got to be ready within some set rule time. And a lot of kids, you miss, they miss that period.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  They were willing to endure all the inconvenience. And some of the neighbors, too, were willing to endure it if it ensured that he might make it out of here.

• 25:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  And so.

• 25:59Craig Robinson?

  Parents, let your kids play the drums.

• 26:02Michelle Obama?

  Well, let them explore.

• 26:03Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 26:04Craig Robinson?

  But, you know, that's what I mean. Let them, let them try stuff.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:08Michelle Obama?

  So your high school, Kappa.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:12Michelle Obama?

  I mean, that sounded like a pretty fame-like place to be. I'm gonna live. Were you all dancing through the lunchroom and stuff?

• 26:19Speaker 00

  Okay, I gotta tell you.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  Like, I wanted to do something creative. So I begged my family, like, can I go to public school, like, regular kids? And I want to go to a regular performing arts school and everything. And that was like a thing, because I always went to private school. And it's like, ah, does he know how to navigate in a regular school atmosphere? And I got there and, yeah, literally, when I walked in the hallway, like, they were breaking out in the song and jazz hands and pirouettes. And, yeah, literally, like, Boyz II Men, or what will become Boyz II Men, are like harmonizing in the urine-infested bathroom with good acoustics.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  And everyone sort of has, has a gang story in school. Either literal, or in this case, like, what clique you're going to be within. You know, with the, with the jazz cats, you, you had to know. And I was weak on jazz during that period. Like, you had to devote your life to jazz in order to do that. Or then there's, you know, people trying to make me a progressive musician. Like, ah, man, forget that music from the 40s. You need to be listening to Frank Zappa and Montevideo Orchestra and all this progressive stuff. And, you know, hip hop is hitting at the time.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  And I will say that the cool kids let me sit at their table because they need somebody to do.

• 27:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:55Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  While they rhyme back and forth.

• 27:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  And so, you know, my partner, Tariq, he and I, basically, like, I'd never seen someone that knew how to play the dozens.

• 28:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  And rhyme at the same time.

• 28:12Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  And talk about how dingy your jeans look and how.

• 28:17Michelle Obama?

  Just off the top of his head.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so it was like a thing to witness. And, you know, I think, basically, like, I lied to a girl. Like, I was like the cutest girl in school. And, you know, I inserted myself in the conversation like, no, no, that was the wrong Prince song. It was this song from 1940. No, no, no, no, no.

• 28:39Michelle Obama?

  You're coming in with your little nerdy self.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're like, ew, no one asked you. And like, one of them finally bit the bait, like, well, what do you mean? I said, well, we, we sampled it last night. Who sampled it? Oh, you know, me and my group. What group?

• 28:57Speaker 00

  Him. And, you know, Tariq was just like sitting by himself eating a bagel or whatever. And I went to fourth period class, um, which is in the basement. And mid rehearsal, I was like, I better cover my lie. And it's seven, it's seven flights up with no elevator. So literally running upstairs, running, and I just told him, I said, if anyone, if anyone asks you, we're a group. And he was just like, okay. And that's how the Roots.

• 29:32Michelle Obama?

  And what were you, you called yourself radioactivity?

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Oh, God. I was afraid you'd know this part of the story. Yes, every group goes through metamorphosis of, of name changes. We started off.

• 29:47Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  We started off as radioactivity. Uh, I was known as A sample. Yes. I was A sample in radioactivity and then that didn't work. And then by 89, we morphed into Black to the Future.

• 30:00Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  And that's when I was, Tariq named me Divine Technician of the Drumsticks, which didn't have a ring to it. And then.

• 30:09Craig Robinson?

  You think?

• 30:10Speaker 00

  And then, uh, after we graduated school, we became the Square Roots. And I love that name.

• 30:19Michelle Obama?

  When did foreign objects?

• 30:21Speaker 00

  Well, that was our, I mean, by that point, you needed, you know, there, there were not only were there groups, but then there were groups of groups.

• 30:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  So the foreign objects was sort of like our, the clique of other neighborhood groups. But really it was, we, it was enough on our hands just doing, dealing with the Roots, not like with 18 other people. Although we're a very community minded organization. So, yeah, someone else had the name Square Roots. Uh, and, uh, so right before we signed our contract, we just became the Roots. Very apropos, but at the time I was, I was depressed that we had to lose the Square.

• 31:00Michelle Obama?

  What, what about Questlove, the origins of?

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Okay, so, yeah, after failing at A sample and Divine Technician on the Drumsticks, the, the Drumsticks.

• 31:13Michelle Obama?

  On the Drumsticks.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Remember the sticks.

• 31:16Craig Robinson?

  Divine intervention.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so, uh, I decided that all hip hop monikers are way dated. And so I just said, look, I, let me just be this guy, like, just a question mark symbol.

• 31:31Craig Robinson?

  The Riddler.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, just, I, I wanted nothing. I wanted to be like, and your name, like I imagine on Soul Train. Yeah, I'm, and then, and then, and me like, and then they were going. And so what wound up happening when we started doing like local press? Everyone's like, so Mark, you were da, da, da, da, da. And I was like, why you call me Mark? He's like, question mark?

• 31:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  And I was like, ah, that's not gonna work.

• 31:58Michelle Obama?

  That's not what I wanted.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 31:59Michelle Obama?

  I didn't want that to happen.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  So then the second album. Yeah, the second album, I was like, all right. It was real pretentious, but I was like, all right, I'm gonna be Brother Question. It will stand for Beat Recycler of the Rhythm. And then people were just like, brother? And so that didn't work. So then by a third album, I was like, okay, I got this. I'm gonna go for an old school name. So if you were like in that origins of hip hop, you were either rock, ski, or love. So I was like, my Quest Rock or Quest Ski. And then Questlove had a better, better ring to it, but.

• 32:37Michelle Obama?

  It sure did.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  For this next album, I still wanna go back to just nothing.

• 32:42Michelle Obama?

  Just us, it just proves the point.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  I just wanna be, I am.

• 32:53Craig Robinson?

  I feel like every year I tell myself, I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm gonna have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early. And then somehow the holidays still sneak up on me. So this year I'm starting early and it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's trickier for some than others. Like I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kindle, but I might wanna do a bit more research before I lock it in. Meanwhile, my kids are the easiest ones.

• 33:36Craig Robinson?

  I just get them whatever video game accessory nonsense that they're dying for right now. And Amazon makes it simple to get a head start on gifting without spending a fortune. Even something small can bring joy. The way I get excited to find a new ornament each year that represents something special from that year. You can find low prices across everything from fashion and fitness to toys, electronics, holiday decor, groceries, advent calendars, you name it. Get a head start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 34:16Craig Robinson?

  I think everybody has had that moment when they go, you know, it'd be cool if there was something that did this or that. And most people probably let that idea sit on the shelf. But some people follow through on it. And usually they're doing it with Shopify at their backs. Shopify gives you the tools to build your storefront, reach customers, and actually run your business. That means you can focus more on the fun stuff, what you're putting out there and what comes next. It's crazy to think that 20 years ago, starting your own business was so risky. But now we live in a time where there are so many resources to help us scale.

• 34:57Craig Robinson?

  And Shopify is how your stuff gets discovered everywhere, from Google to YouTube to the shop app. Plus, don't forget about all of Shopify's cutting edge AI tools that are designed to bring you to the next level. Shopify is the tool that matches your ambition and is ready to support you as you conquer the world. Start your partnership with Shopify today at Shopify.com/IMO. Did you know most traditional banks pay almost nothing in interest? So your savings can end up just sitting there? It's really simple. Your money could and should be earning for you. That's where SoFi comes in, the everything app for smarter money.

• 35:39Craig Robinson?

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• 36:24Craig Robinson?

  SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, North America, Member FDIC.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  My dad, who was big on respectability politics, wanted me to, to either go to Curtis or Juilliard or the New School. Um, and what wound up happening at my audition? So I went to audition for New School and Juilliard and Tariq was with me. And the, the side note is that the real answer was yes. Did my classmates Boyz II Men put me in their Motown Philly video? The answer is yes. So the world's most, it was like somehow a Grey Poupon commercial. This girl on the train coming back from New York saunters up and says, excuse me,

• 37:23Speaker 00

  are you the drummer in the Mariah Carey video? Okay, yes. She too had a drummer that played the buckets or whatever in her video. And I was just like, no. And she said, oh.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  Okay. And she walked off and Tariq's just looking at me like.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  And I was like, what? I wasn't in the Mariah Carey. You know who she was talking about. You could have corrected her. I don't know.

• 37:51Michelle Obama?

  I just answer, you were answering the question.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Right. I wasn't, I wasn't thinking of my lie or whatever, or my game. So she thought it was the drummer and the Spike Lee. Spike Lee directed a Levi's commercial with a bucket drummer. Incidentally, from, from DC, his name is Chocolate. And so he's drumming. And the next day, we're back at the crib and Soul Train comes on and that commercial comes on. And literally, it was like, we looked at each other like the Eureka moment, like.

• 38:24Michelle Obama?

  It's like, it's you. You're me. I am you.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Well, she thought that was us. So why don't we just, you know? It's just like, alright, I got drumsticks. We got a white bucket somewhere. Alright, meet me on South Street at four o'clock and we'll see what happens. And pretty much that entire summer of 92, we went from busking and then.

• 38:49Michelle Obama?

  And for, both busking is playing in the streets.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, being a street musician.

• 38:52Michelle Obama?

  Being a street museum.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  And by the next year, we were in a, like, a crazy bidding war. So.

• 39:02Michelle Obama?

  What was, what were your parents thinking during this period? Because you did, you did not go to Juilliard.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:12Michelle Obama?

  You didn't end up doing that.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  So my dad found out about The Roots on our second album. Cause it's kinda hard hiding, like, his first question.

• 39:24Michelle Obama?

  So you did a whole album and he didn't know about it?

• 39:27Speaker 00

  He didn't know.

• 39:28Craig Robinson?

  Was this while you were still?

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Living under his roof? Absolutely, yes.

• 39:32Craig Robinson?

  You were living at home, did one album, and he had no idea?

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was always, you know, I, I, I had gotten a job selling insurance so that I could save for college, you know? Eventually and, yeah, I'm going to college. Yeah, dad.

• 39:45Michelle Obama?

  You sold insurance at that part?

• 39:48Speaker 00

  Oh, the things you'll know. Yeah. Oh, the things you'll know.

• 39:51Craig Robinson?

  Oh, man.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  And, yeah, he's like, so, and he shows me like the Sunday paper, like our, you know, we make critically acclaimed music, so.

• 40:01Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  He's like, uh, what is this? And also, like, we're on MTV by this point and.

• 40:06Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  I was like, yeah, you know, you know, the little thing that I do with Tariq, like, we, you know?

• 40:10Craig Robinson?

  While I'm selling insurance.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  We just got, yeah, we got a deal, whatever. So he.

• 40:15Michelle Obama?

  Curse that Tariq.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, he. Again, I think, you know, oftentimes we unknowingly transfer our fear, our, our, our fear onto our kids.

• 40:29Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  He was like that. My mom was absolutely supportive of it. Uh, but my dad, not so much, at least outright then. But once we got a hit and he got a car and a house out of it, he was like, oh, my son, you know, like. He, he, he understood. But, um, yeah, it, it.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  I don't know, like, we, we had such a tortoise and the hare journey. Like, I don't even know if there's a point in my life where I actually felt like we, we, we crossed this, like, chariot of fire finish line of like, we finally made it. You know, it's, it's just living in the present, like, even now.

• 41:13Michelle Obama?

  And can you talk about that part of music and rap? And the challenges of what you were trying to do with what the industry was becoming?

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:24Michelle Obama?

  And, you know, also some of the hits you took?

• 41:27Speaker 00

  You know, I knew hip hop as an inclusive thing, that I can do it too.

• 41:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  And by the time we got past the, uh, the, the gate, if you will, the entry gate, um, the rules had changed. And it wasn't the same community idea that.

• 41:52Craig Robinson?

  Interesting. Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Made it enticing. So the thing is, is that when we lived in London,

• 41:58Speaker 00

  there's a couple of things that we learned that we never gave up. One, uh, we learned that there's way more music festivals than, than Europe.

• 42:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, there should.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  Than there were in the States. In the States, there was just Lollapalooza and Farm Aid. Maybe a Bonnaroo. But, you know, over in Europe, which is why we moved, there's like 600 festivals to choose from all over Europe. And we were like, yo, when we make it, we're gonna throw a festival one day. So that, that was the seed planting for that. The other thing was, we noticed that, uh, they would have jam sessions everywhere. So the jam session is what we learned and once we eventually came back uh, to the States to really like live in Philly, like, and gave up the apartment, um, we kept those things to heart and we started doing these jam sessions.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  So Friday nights, we would have these jam sessions in my living room from like 6:00 PM. And I would never say, hey, we're having a jam session.

• 43:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  I would entice them with food.

• 43:03Michelle Obama?

  But we're talking Jill Scott, Jasmine Sullivan. I mean, this, I mean, Bilal, I mean, it's like.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Everyone was unknown. Yeah.

• 43:12Michelle Obama?

  Before they weren't, before they were known.

• 43:14Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  Well, the, the thing is, is that if you build it, they will come. Um, the only thing I think that none of us planned on was like, everyone made it. So eventually, we were running out of, well, at, at, at its height, um, at its height,

• 43:35Speaker 00

  name the person, like Janet Jackson would come. And then suddenly, well, him, him, him, him, him, and suddenly, seven musicians aren't there anymore. And then.

• 43:45Craig Robinson?

  Oh, that's how.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Somebody else.

• 43:48Craig Robinson?

  They just come.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, like Adam, if you know the name Adam Blackstone and, and Omar, like, all be, the people who run music now.

• 43:56Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  If you are on a concert stage, I promise you

• 43:59Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  that the MD is at least from the tri-state area. Or half that band's from Philadelphia. So I will say that a good 90 musicians, based on, you know.

• 44:15Michelle Obama?

  The jam sessions.

• 44:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, the jam sessions that we had.

• 44:17Michelle Obama?

  And the environment that you created.

• 44:19Craig Robinson?

  And, and that, that incubator, that is, which is what it feels like. You said initially, you started it by feeding them.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, well.

• 44:31Craig Robinson?

  Was that the start of your culinary interest or?

• 44:34Speaker 00

  I, I will.

• 44:35Craig Robinson?

  Because I, I'm still thinking about those cheese stuff.

• 44:39Speaker 00

  Um, only after the fact that I realize, um, that food is the perfect social adhesive. I mean, we all have Sunday.

• 44:52Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah. Right.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Mom and them's house or aunt's somebody's house, like every Sunday after church or something like that.

• 44:58Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, yeah, there, there was a, a cat named Terry that used to, um,

• 45:06Speaker 00

  he was like the best chef.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  I don't know if he was at Le Beck Fin or like one of these, like, before we knew what James Beard or like Miss Lindstall Restaurant, but uh, we struggled to deal with him and it's basically like, can you cook at my house every Friday? And people heard free food at West Love's house and then, ah, surprise, guys, grab an instrument. Two, three, and, and then, once everyone got successful, then

• 45:34Speaker 00

  we ran out of musicians. So there's, I mean, there's always musicians in Philly.

• 45:40Michelle Obama?

  So at, at some point, you start differentiating yourself from The Roots. Can you talk about what you think you got right and wrong in that process?

• 45:51Speaker 00

  As far as I was concerned, like, we

• 45:56Speaker 00

  saw The Roots kind of as a, an open marriage situation. And as long as you come back home to, you know, to, to keep this growing, you could do whatever you want. And so around, uh, 96 or 97 is when like, you know, the buzz, our, our sounds very unique for music at that time and, you know, Erykah Badu's like, I want you guys to work with me. And then Common's like, well, I want to do the same. And then D'Angelo.

• 46:26Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  And so there was a period between like, uh, 97 to like 2003, where I'm basically like playing both sides against the, again, it's just like high school. I'm on whatever gangs winning. I'm on their side, you know? Um, so Electric Lady Studios, which is the studio that Jimi Hendrix built in New York, became the hub of what we would call the Soul Quarian unit. And, um, pretty much making, like D'Angelo's voodoo took four years to do.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  He would have Studio A on lockdown. Common's like, I want some of that magic too. So then Common would take over the B room. And Erykah would take over the C room and then, you know, a Blau, a Mos Def or whatever, like. It, it just became, for a good four or five years, like, that was the epicenter of like leftist center soul music and,

• 47:29Speaker 00

  and that movement starts. And so, um, yeah, as long as I came back to The Roots, like, we were still a 150, 200 day out the year on the road band. And then the remaining 100, I would just pre, you know, fill it in with the side projects and, um, you know.

• 47:53Michelle Obama?

  There's that work ethic again, cause you, I mean, when were you sleeping?

• 47:59Speaker 00

  I wasn't. I don't know, it's just that I, there was such a feeling in the air, like, it's hard to know when it started, but I know when people ask like, when did you know it was over? That movement was over? It's hard for me to watch Dave Chappelle's Block Party.

• 48:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Cause that's liter- that-

• 48:20Michelle Obama?

  That felt like-

• 48:21Speaker 00

  That documentary to me is the end of that movement. That's the last time, like, everyone in that film, we would spend the night at each other's cribs and work on projects together and all those things. And, you know, then we turned 35 and we had lives and families and can't do the same things that you were doing at 20, 21, 22, when, you know, you're brand new in the game. And so, by that point, also for us,

• 48:54Speaker 00

  just having a personal life was hard. Like, I couldn't keep a girlfriend for more than like six to seven months.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Kids are now crying because like, they don't understand, like, why do you have to go to Australia for two to three weeks? And, you know, they're crying, so we were pretty much like just begging for,

• 49:18Speaker 00

  like, like, if there's a way, we would always look at the Celine Dion method. Like, that was new. You could do, you could stay in one place-

• 49:27Michelle Obama?

  Place, yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  And get paid the same money for one place?

• 49:30Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  And, um, out of nowhere, the most unlikely person came, like, right in the nick of time. And that was like Jimmy Fallon.

• 49:39Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Which-

• 49:41Michelle Obama?

  Was he a fan? I mean, did, I mean-

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Okay, so, the deal is that, um, one of my side gigs was, um,

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Dave, uh, Dave and Neil Brennan hired me to do most of the music for the classic season two of Chappelle's Show.

• 50:02Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  So, the Rick James stuff and the Prince playing basketball and all that stuff from season two.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  We did the music, of course, when season three comes, we know what happens. Dave goes AWOL and then there's like no show left. And once we realized it was really over,

• 50:23Speaker 00

  Dave's writing partner, Neil Brennan, uh, was sort of trying to figure out what's his next move. And it just so happens that, um, Conan was gonna get the Tonight Show and someone needed to take the Late Night Show over. And Jimmy had asked Neil Brennan, hey, can you, uh, partner with me on this and direct it? And he's like, well, I won't direct it, but I'll at least give you recommendations. And when it came to music, Neil Brennan's quote was, well, yeah, ask the Roots. They know the best musicians to recommend. And Jimmy's like, you're right, I will ask the Roots. And, forget the other part.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  And so, it just so happens that we were in, uh, USC, doing their spring plane or something like that, it's like 2007. And he came, the show's over, and, you know, Jimmy's excited, always excited. And, uh, what a guy. Always excited and I had to do an interview with like the school paper. And when it was over, I come outside

• 51:33Speaker 00

  and Jimmy has somehow convinced the other eight Roots to get into like a human pyramid. Like, it's like Bring It On or- You might know, you might know the eight is enough reference-

• 51:44Craig Robinson?

  Yes, yes.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  If you're of a certain age. So, we're on a human pyramid. But that's not the part in which I knew where the next 20 years of my life was gonna be.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Tariq, my partner in the Roots Black Thought, who, he and I are kind of, even though we're very much alike, um, fashion-wise, we're the opposite.

• 52:10Craig Robinson?

  Yes, yes.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  He is an immaculate dresser, you know?

• 52:15Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  Whatever pants he's wearing, I promise you it costs five figures. Like, it's a very rare, delicate material from Egypt or something like that. And he's on the bottom row.

• 52:26Michelle Obama?

  Oh, on his, in his good clothes.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Yo, yes. I was like, yo, his denim, he's on the bottom in his Japanese denim?

• 52:38Speaker 00

  And I looked at my manager like, yo, we're never getting rid of this guy, are we? And he's like, I don't think we are. And that's how I knew- Cause I, I wanted to know, what did he do to disarm them?

• 52:52Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 52:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  To make them do that and-

• 52:55Craig Robinson?

  And he did this all without having talked to you yet.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  I mean, it was out there, you know, he put it out there, but I think we, at the time, were just like, of course, we're not gonna do it, cause we're making all this good money. But let's at least be in good standing with him, so that when we go on his show, he'll be like, yeah, you guys can play.

• 53:16Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  And, you know, I gotta admit to you,

• 53:21Speaker 00

  it was the best thing ever for us.

• 53:24Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Because, number one, um,

• 53:30Speaker 00

  for all the Roots kids that are in the organization, finally, there's normalcy.

• 53:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  And stability and balance, which is needed.

• 53:37Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  So, there's that. Uh, those that wanna pursue longer than seven months relationships, like consistency, that part is, is being covered.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  But also, uh, one, it taught us to be better songwriters, because like, you have to do these challenges where you write these like seven second jingles.

• 53:59Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, there's so much you're doing in a show and on a daily basis-

• 54:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:05Michelle Obama?

  Producing like that with all this different music.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  But we never, we never bonded as a, as a band. And somehow, doing this made us even closer.

• 54:20Craig Robinson?

  Made your team then.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  To, we like, like, like each other.

• 54:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Like, you can be with someone in a party or whatever. And there was a scary period in which like, okay, we'll just show up and do the show and go our separate ways and that sort of thing.

• 54:42Craig Robinson?

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• 55:21Craig Robinson?

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• 55:44Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 55:52Michelle Obama?

  You know, and we've talked about this, your passion for assuring that black music legacy is kept.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:02Michelle Obama?

  You know, I wanna spend some time on that, because that's important work. And I, I want you to talk a little bit about your passion for that and why you think, you know, Summer Soul, the Earth, Wind & Fire special, the Wonder of Stevie, Sly Stone. Like, making that happen for these artists, why is that so important?

• 56:24Speaker 00

  You know, part of me was always wanting to be an educator. Uh, I don't, when I DJ, I'm literally doing CSI charts on how to figure out how to connect this bridge to this song and da-da-da-da-da and trick you into education. And, um, this starts with in 2017.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Someone tells my, well, she's my manager now, but my assistant, Zara, is like, hey, we own this, like 50 hours of this black, this mythic, I've heard of this mythical Blackwood Stock that allegedly Stevie Wonder and Staples saying everyone performed that. We've heard about it, never seen evidence of it. And these guys own it. And immediately I get suspicious, because of course, if a blessing comes, it's like me to self sabotage it. Yeah, whatever. And, you know, they talk about it and I was like, well, why don't you get a real director? Like get Ava or Spike or somebody. And they're like, you know, you're a natural storyteller, right?

• 57:29Speaker 00

  And I'm like, I had no, did you think? And that's the thing, like, a lot of us live in, am I? And we have to own our I am. And so I resisted it for eight months. I didn't want to do it. And finally got worn down because the thing that I want all my projects to come across, I want to bring our humanity. Oftentimes, people forget that we're human. For me, camera four of Summer of Soul, in which you just get to see everyone's faces

• 58:13Speaker 00

  as they're watching it. That to me was the most important capture of that whole festival. And we just, I mean, with 50 hours of footage, it's ours, it's, it's, it's ours to drop the ball. We just had to find a compelling story of why this was needed.

• 58:34Michelle Obama?

  You also talk about the fact that it's hard to get our artists to understand the importance of telling their story and legacy, which we've found, you know, challenging. What is, what is going on with that? Why, why do we struggle to own our history and tell our stories?

• 58:59Speaker 00

  It's, us and history is really weird. I also work for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And I can't tell you the amount of times where I've gone to, we've gone to black artists be like, congratulations, you made the da, da, da, da, da. And instantly the ages and thing kicked, well, you know, I'm not old yet. Like, I still got a ways to go. Like, I'm not.

• 59:21Michelle Obama?

  It's not an honor, it's an insult.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I was like, dude, do you know what it means to get in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Are you kidding? And so it's just.

• 59:31Michelle Obama?

  People not confronting mortality or wanting to review the past.

• 59:39Speaker 00

  Not at all. And I think hopefully with this cannon under, under my belt.

• 59:45Michelle Obama?

  That's what I'm hoping.

• 59:46Speaker 00

  That people will see that history is also beautiful.

• 59:50Michelle Obama?

  And that you're a trusted.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Source of.

• 59:54Michelle Obama?

  Source of, of that. I mean, we've talked about, for example, I mean, there's such a big hit list of people, Diana Ross. If you're listening.

• 1:00:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, and these stories are needed. Like, to me, Summer of Soul is where I discovered why joy is important. And I know historically, we've had a really, sort of, we had a, kind of a, a very slow embracing of anything to do with joy. Like, the good thing about post pandemic quarantine is our willingness to start to get therapy for the first time, starting to communicate with our partners and like to do the work, what they call doing the work.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  But, you know, before 2020, the idea of being happy or vulnerable or all those things were seen as like demerits or weak points. And the way that people embraced and saw like why joy is actually needed for you to survive was always the point of Summer of Soul. And then with Sly Stone, I wanted to sort of send a message out to my fellow artists about staying present and not self sabotaging your, your life's mission. And I think with, with Earth, Wind & Fire, which, I mean, the short version of it was,

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  I always wanted to know how did this band, particularly Maurice White, trick their audience into eating their veggies? That was always my thing, like, I want to use these stories to entice people or at least to give them, to seed plant for them to, to see it themselves.

• 1:01:56Michelle Obama?

  I want to hear about your, how you're dealing with your black genius, you know? And how, you know, you know, how are you doing, helping yourself to?

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  You know what? This is, this year alone is probably the most transformative year of my entire life. Which is me, you know, first, I think my excuse was like, well, you know, I'm a, I'm a creative and I'm a curious person. So of course I want this job and that job and this job and that job and this job and that job, not knowing that I'm being avoidant of life.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  And, you know, oftentimes we will have a, like, all of us have lived through a trauma. And we also have that never again thing, like, I will never again be in this position of da, da, da, da, da. And so my answer was always like, the next job and the next job, more achieving, more achieving, more achievements. And, you know, after a while, I realized that I have to, like, life gives you an opportunity.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  And unfortunately, most of us believe that we had to hit rock bottom first in order to like, all right, I'll, I'll, I get it, I'll change, I'll change. I actually wanted to do that without hitting the rock bottom part first. And this means that you have to say goodbye to certain things. So yes, before 2019, in the food world, had my own publishing imprint, had my podcast, was doing our merch and had a hoodie store, was DJing, had the roots, The Tonight Show,

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  was directing movies, scoring, like, I legit had 13 jobs. And then after the pandemic, I whittled it down to six. But then after the Oscar came, then like more things came. And I was like, well, okay, I'll go up to eight at least. There's a fear of vulnerability that we have to, to, to put our guard down because of the experience that we went through. And for me, like, literally just, just starting over again and saying goodbye to the things

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  that, and I'm not saying like, oh, I'm, I'm never drumming again or I'm never doing this and that, but it's, it's not necessary for me to take everything. And so I've been implementing the word no. And guys, I really will love, you know, because I'm also like getting over the whole, like, I have to people please and I want to be likable and I want to make you mad because I said no, whatever. But I've probably said no more this year than anything.

• 1:05:28Michelle Obama?

  How does it feel?

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  It feels, it feels foreign because, you know, I know as, as human beings, we are conditioned to, we are conditioned to what we're used to. And even if you're used to struggle and like, at least it's familiar, like, oh, you know what this is. For me though, it's, it was a hard adjustment because every, do you know what it is to have everything work out in your life and the worst time in history in this country?

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  Like, so every victory I get, my first thing is always like, I can't tell nobody. Dude, even before they said, and the winner is Westlife, Summer of Soul. Like, I was literally sitting there like, all right, this person's not going to be happy for me because this person's not going to be happy for me. I'm not going to be friends with this person, this person's going to have jokes and I'm, like, I'd started making a, started evidence sorting why I don't deserve it and who's not going to be happy for me. And oftentimes when good news happens, Amir, you'll never guess what, we got the da, da, da, da, da, da. And I'll be like, oh, great, that's cool. But I will have a panic attack three seconds later.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's, it's, so just allow myself in, in the space to, to feel is a hard thing to do. But I'm, I'm going to get there because I know like, that's, if I got to lead by example, like, that's what I want to be.

• 1:07:12Craig Robinson?

  This is wonderful, man. I, you know, there's so much more that I would love to talk to you about. We really appreciate you taking the time and being with us.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  I have like 12 other projects coming down the pipeline, so.

• 1:07:22Craig Robinson?

  I don't want to, we don't want to pile on.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  We don't want to pile on.

• 1:07:26Michelle Obama?

  But we got to make sure folks are, if you haven't caught Earth, Wind & Fire, where is it streaming?

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  It's on HBO.

• 1:07:34Michelle Obama?

  On HBO.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  To be celestial, Earth, Wind & Fire is streaming on HBO. The SNL 50 documentaries on Peacock. Hulu has the Sly Stone and the Summer of Soul. Disney Hulu has.

• 1:07:47Michelle Obama?

  And The Wonder of Stevie.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  Yes, The Wonder of Stevie, of course.

• 1:07:50Michelle Obama?

  Anywhere you get your podcasts.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 1:07:55Craig Robinson?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  Well, thank you, guys. Thank you.

• 1:07:58Craig Robinson?

  Great to spend time with some real time with you.

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:08:22Craig Robinson?

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