Discipline Equals Freedom — Jocko Willink

Jocko Willink (@jockowillink https://twitter.com/jockowillink) takes over the show for a special episode. As I learned during our first interview https://tim.blog/2015/09/25/jocko-willink/, he is one of the scariest human beings imaginable. In this episode, Jocko shares lessons from his new book Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1250156947/offsitoftimfe-20. Trust me, it's fantastic. In this talk, he discusses: The success mindset How to stop laziness and procrastination Behaviors that lead to failure His exact workouts How he adapts his training when he's on the road And much, much more Jocko is a legend in the Special Operations world. His eyes look through you more than at you. Jocko enlisted in the Navy after high school and spent 20 years in the SEAL Teams, first as an enlisted SEAL operator and then as a SEAL officer. During his second tour in Iraq, he led SEAL Task Unit Bruiser in the Battle of Ramadi–some of the toughest and sustained combat in the SEAL Teams since Vietnam. Under his leadership, Task Unit Bruiser became the most highly decorated Special Operations Unit of the entire war in Iraq and helped bring stability to Ramadi. Jocko was awarded the Bronze Star and a Silver Star. Jocko is also the co-author of Extreme Ownership: How U. S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win http://amzn.to/1MHS9l3 — which I loved. I hope you enjoy this episode! This podcast is brought to you by Helix Sleep https://helixsleep.com/tim. I recently moved into a new home and needed new beds, and I purchased mattresses from Helix Sleep. They offer mattresses personalized to your preferences and sleeping style — without costing thousands of dollars. Visit Helixsleep.com/TIM https://helixsleep.com/timand take their simple 2-3 minute sleep quiz to get started, and they'll build a mattress you'll love. Their customer service makes all the difference. The mattress arrives within a week, and the shipping is completely free. You can try the mattress for 100 nights, and if you're not happy, they'll pick it up and offer a full refund. To personalize your sleep experience, visit Helixsleep.com/TIM https://helixsleep.com/tim and you'll receive $50 off your custom mattress. Enjoy! This episode is also brought to you by LegalZoom https://www.legalzoom.com/. I've used this service for many of my businesses, as have quite a few of the icons on this podcast — such as Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg of WordPress fame. LegalZoom https://www.legalzoom.com/ is a reliable resource that more than a million people have already trusted for everything from setting up wills, proper trademark searches, forming LLCs, setting up non-profits, or finding simple cease-and-desist letter templates. LegalZoom https://www.legalzoom.com/ is not a law firm, but it does have a network of independent attorneys available in most states who can give you advice on the best way to get started, provide contract reviews, and otherwise help you run your business with complete transparency and up-front pricing. Check out LegalZoom.com and enter promo code TIM at checkout today https://www.legalzoom.com/ to save 15%, and see how the fine folks there can make life easier for you and your business.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:08Speaker 01

  No, we're just in an appropriate time.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:24Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:04Tim Ferriss?

  subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out, go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drink A G one, the number one, drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out.

• 1:23Jocko Willink?

  Good evening. This is Jaco Willink, and I am standing in as the host for the Tim Ferriss Show. And I'm doing some talking because right now, Mr. Tim Ferriss can't talk to you himself because he is in a silent retreat, where he's remaining in complete silence for, I think, 10 days. And it's not just silence, it's actually also no books, no computers, no phones, obviously. It's just pure silence alone with your thoughts.

• 2:01Jocko Willink?

  Not exactly what I would want to do, but it sounds kind of crazy and it sounds like something Tim Ferriss would do. But in the meantime, like I said, I am here to guest host this show, which is awesome. I appreciate that opportunity and thanks to Tim Ferriss for giving me that opportunity. Now, a little bit about my background. First, if you want to know about me, one of the best places to find out about me is actually on this podcast as well. Tim Ferriss, episode number 107. And that was released in September of 2015. And that was the first time I was ever

• 2:45Jocko Willink?

  interviewed, really for anything. And I had been in the SEAL teams for 20 years. I'd never done any interview. I'd never had any social media, didn't have a website. I really didn't exist in the public eye at all. And so my background is that I grew up in a small New England town. I enlisted in the Navy after high school. I went through boot camp. I went to SEAL training. I spent some time at SEAL Team One in the 90s and eventually got picked up for a commissioning program, which meant I was going to become an officer in the SEAL teams and move into a leadership position. And eventually, once I did that, the war started in September, September 11,

• 3:30Jocko Willink?

  2001. And from there, I deployed to Iraq as a SEAL platoon commander and then as a SEAL task unit commander. When I was a task unit commander, I fought in the Battle of Ramadi, Ramadi, Iraq, the capital of Al-Anbar province, and very tough fighting in incredible effort by the soldiers and Marines on the ground and also the guys that were with me as well from my SEAL task unit and ended up being the most highly decorated special operations unit from the Iraq War and incredible sacrifices were made for that victory. And when I got back from that

• 4:13Jocko Willink?

  deployment to Iraq, I took over the training for the West Coast SEAL teams. And the training that I took over isn't the training where you've got the boat on your head or you're carrying the logs around or you're Doing a bunch of pushups and pullups and runs and swims. It's the the real training where SEALs actually learn to be SEALs, to shoot, move and communicate, to fire and maneuver, to close with and destroy the enemy, and they learn about combat leadership. And I did that for my last few years and the SEAL teams taught that. And then I retired in 2010. And when I did that, I started working with companies, with businesses and helping out with their leadership and their management.

• 4:57Jocko Willink?

  And that developed into a leadership and management consulting company, which is called Echelon Front, that I run with my buddy and former teammate, Leif Babin, who was one of the platoon commanders that worked for me in the Battle of Ramadi. And we wrote a book together, which was called Extreme Ownership. And that is how I ended up being on Tim's podcast for the first time. We had some mutual friends, Kirk Parsley and Dr. Peter Attia, and they made the intro. And that's how I ended up on this podcast the first time. And that book, Extreme Ownership, is a book about leadership. Really, it's combat leadership lessons learned and tested on the battlefield that that we then taught to the next generation of SEALs.

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  And now we're out there teaching these leadership principles to businesses and teams and organizations throughout the civilian world and also in law enforcement, in fire departments, in any type of organization. So that's what we're doing now. And as that book was launching, like I said, I went on Tim's podcast. It was awesome. And when we got done with that podcast, when Tim pressed stop on the recorder, he said, you should really have your own podcast. And I kind of, you know, I listened to him, but I had a bunch of stuff going on. The book was coming out and whatnot. And then Joe Rogan heard that podcast and asked me to come on his podcast.

• 6:23Jocko Willink?

  And in the middle of that podcast, Joe Rogan said, you should have your own podcast. So I guess when Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan tell you, you should have your own podcasts, then you should listen. And I did. And so I started my own podcast, which is called Jocko Podcast. And Really, it's a podcast about human nature. And, and it's human nature as viewed through the lens of war and other human struggles. And it's definitely focused on leadership, but it also often reveals

• 7:01Jocko Willink?

  the dark side of mankind and the podcast can get pretty heavy and pretty dark. But it's not all like that. And I also, you know, as we did the podcast, as I continue to put it out there, I also talked about all kinds of other things about life and, and how I live, about surfing and about jujitsu and about working out and about eating and how I eat and sleeping and how I sleep and how to wake up earlier and how to overcome procrastination and how to accomplish goals and how to get the most out of life and all those kinds of things. Your basic winning. And in there, I, I wrote a book for kids and the book that I wrote for kids is called Way of the Warrior Kid.

• 7:45Jocko Willink?

  And it's, you know, it's about a kid that's having a tough time at school. He didn't know how to, couldn't do any pull-ups and he didn't know his times tables, so he kind of felt stupid. And he didn't know how to swim because he was afraid of the water and he was getting picked on at school and the last day of school, everything kind of comes crashing down on him. And he goes home all sad, but when he gets home, he remembers that his uncle is coming to stay with him for the summer and his uncle was a SEAL in the SEAL teams. And so his uncle finds out what these problems are that the kid is suffering through and says, look, oh, you can't, you can't swim, you don't know how to do any pull-ups or you can't do any pull-ups. You don't know your times tables, you're getting picked on at school, we can handle those problems.

• 8:28Jocko Willink?

  So they go on a little journey and the uncle, Uncle Jake teaches young Mark how to overcome all these challenges. And so that book came out and, but people were asking for sort of details on the aspect of my life about, you know, not about the leadership stuff, but about my sort of kind of operating system. And so eventually I put that down, kind of my mode of living into the way I live. And this book is called Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  And it just came out October 17th, and that's how I ended up doing this podcast for Tim. Cause like I said, Tim is, I guess fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you're looking at it. Tim is, is not allowed to talk right now. And so he, but he had read the book just before he went into his period of silence. And he wanted me to come on while he was not able to speak and talk about some of the high points that might, that he thought would be a useful introduction to people that listen to his podcast. So that's why I'm here. If you were expecting Tim, I apologize.

• 9:44Jocko Willink?

  I know that's always a bummer when you're expecting to have that person that you, you know, and you're, you're anticipating hearing their voice. And then it turns out not to be that person. So if you've made it this far, thank you. And here we go. The book is broken into two sections. The sections, oh, first section is called thoughts. And the second section is called actions. And the thoughts section is about,

• 10:13Jocko Willink?

  well, basically it's what goes through my head. It's how I view and how I think about things. And Tim wanted me to focus on the actions part, but for one example of what is in the thoughts category, I'm going to the book here. This is directly from the book, Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Here we go. People want to know how to stop laziness. They want to know how to stop procrastination. They have an idea in their head, maybe even a vision. But they don't know where to start. So they ask, and they say, where do I start?

• 10:57Jocko Willink?

  When is the best time to start? And I have a simple answer. Here. And now. That's it. You want to improve? You want to get better? You want to get on a workout program or a clean diet? Or start a new business? You want to write a book or make a movie or build a house or a computer or an app? Where do you start? You start right here. When do you start? You start right now. You initiate action. You go.

• 11:32Jocko Willink?

  Here is the reality, that idea isn't going to execute itself. That book isn't going to write itself. Those weights out in the gym, they aren't going to move themselves.

• 11:46Jocko Willink?

  You have to do it. And you have to do it now, so stop thinking about it. Stop dreaming about it. Stop researching every aspect of it and reading all about it and debating the pros and cons of it. Start doing it.

• 12:04Jocko Willink?

  Take that first step and make it happen. Get after it. Here. And now.

• 12:15Jocko Willink?

  So. That's the kind of things that are in the book. The first part of the book, which again is called Thoughts. And. Like I said, the second part is what I actually do to implement those thoughts into my life. And of course, Tim being Mr. Pragmatic. Like, how do we get to it? How do we make it happen? He asked me to detail some of those for you. And one of the things that he wanted me to talk about was early morning training. And what role getting up early, because I get up early in the morning. What role that plays in my life and why I kind of maintain that and have maintained that for a long time.

• 13:00Jocko Willink?

  And there's one section that talks about. Kind of a little psychological edge that I believe the waking up early in the morning gives. Anyone that wakes up early in the morning. So here's a little chunk of the book where I talk about. That psychological edge.

• 13:22Jocko Willink?

  There are a slew of psychological advantages that come from early morning physical training. First.

• 13:31Jocko Willink?

  There is a psychological win over the enemy. Knowing that you are working harder than your adversaries gives you an advantage. It gives you confidence that you can overcome them in battle.

• 13:45Jocko Willink?

  Another advantage to waking up early and working out hard is that it demands discipline to do both. Now, some scientists have claimed that discipline dissipates the more it is used, that willpower is a finite resource that is reduced every time it is used throughout the day. This is wrong. That does not happen. To the contrary, I believe, and studies have shown, that discipline and willpower do not go down as they are called into action, they actually get stronger. This is obvious if you actually try the experiment yourself. Before you go to bed, plan what workout you're going to do in the morning.

• 14:30Jocko Willink?

  Stage your workout clothes so you don't even have to think about them when you get up. Write down a list of things you need to accomplish the next day. Set your alarm clock for 4:30 a.m. and go to sleep. When the alarm clock goes off, get up. Put on your pre-staged clothes, brush your teeth, and go get your workout on, hard. Get done, shower, get dressed, and begin to crush the lists of tasks you made for the day. When it's time for breakfast, see what happens. You won't want to eat junk, you won't want that disgusting donut.

• 15:13Jocko Willink?

  You'll want some eggs and bacon, and that will happen at lunch, too. You're feeling good, energized, you don't want to eat that worthless calories of pizza or french fries. You want fuel. Good fuel to rebuild your body, clean fuel that keeps your mind sharp. When you're on the path, you want to stay on the path. Unfortunately, the opposite is also true. Once you step off the path, you tend to stray far. When you don't prepare what you need to do the next day, when you sleep in and then skip your workout, and you don't start attacking the tasks you have because you didn't write

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  them down the night before, that is when you make bad decisions. That is when your will and discipline fail.

• 16:06Jocko Willink?

  You figure you might as well have that donut. Have that donut for breakfast and once you've done that, might as well put down four or five pieces of pizza for lunch. It doesn't matter anymore. You're off the path and that is a disaster.

• 16:24Jocko Willink?

  Your will didn't break. It never showed up in the first place.

• 16:30Jocko Willink?

  So get on the path of discipline and stay on the path. Discipline begets discipline. Will propagates more will.

• 16:43Jocko Willink?

  Hold the line across the line. And victory will be yours.

• 16:51Jocko Willink?

  So. That's why I wake up early in the morning. And work out and. Also in the book, I talk about. How you actually start getting up early in the morning because this is a big challenge for a lot of people. I know it. I get it. And there's a. Bunch of ways to do this and one of the most important things. To allow you to get up early in the morning is to go to bed earlier. But going to bed earlier is also a challenge. And again, I talk about this in the book, but how do you, how, what's the most important thing to, to put into place to go to bed earlier is. Number one, you want to be tired.

• 17:35Jocko Willink?

  When you get to the end of the day, you want to be tired. That's how you get to go to bed earlier. Number two.

• 17:42Jocko Willink?

  Turn off the internet. Because they've got these little people that are programming things into the interwebs that are. Truly just meant to get you to click one more time. Just click one more time. And watch one more.

• 18:00Jocko Willink?

  One more video. One more stupid video. That's not getting you anything, not improving you in any way. So. Turn off the internet and if you, if you need to do something, then read a book, pick up a book and read a book.

• 18:15Jocko Willink?

  And the most important thing to allow you to go to bed earlier, the most important thing you can do is actually get up earlier. Right? That's what happens. You, when you get up earlier, well, then you're more tired by the end of the day. And then you can go to sleep and that, that gets you in the right pattern. So the way you start getting, the way you start going to bed earlier is by getting up earlier. And again, I detail this and the way that pattern kind of unfolds itself in the book. Now, another thing that Tim wanted me to hit on was my actual workouts.

• 18:58Jocko Willink?

  Like what my workouts look like from week to week. And I'll say this, I have a bunch of, a bunch of kind of standard workouts that I use and they, they vary a little bit depending on what I'm feeling like or what is needed or maybe I got some little injury that I have to cover up or, or maybe I'm really tired from some other workout that I did, so I need to make an adjustment or maybe I haven't worked out in a few days, so I'm gonna need to go even harder. So there's little adjustments that go by and, and I actually took a lot of these standard workouts that I have and I put them into the book. Again, this is something that people really wanted to hear from me, what my workouts actually were.

• 19:40Jocko Willink?

  And so I put them in there and, and they go from the beginner level, from, from people that really haven't worked out before, all the way to intermediate, all the way up to advanced. And, and I've been able to, I actually own a gym in California, a big mixed martial arts gym, but we've got all kinds of, you know, we've got Olympic lifting, we've got, we've got everything in there. And so I've seen people and trained people at all levels from, you know, total non-athlete that haven't done anything active in years, all the way to the highest level athletes that are fighting professionally in the UFC. So I've seen and brought people through those different, those different categories over,

• 20:23Jocko Willink?

  over the past 10 years that I've been training civilians. So.

• 20:29Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's what this book contains is what those are like. Now, I also go after different goals because you want to be chasing something, at least I do. I want to be chasing something. I want to be trying to achieve something, but I don't just continually chase the same thing. So sometimes I'll be trying to, you know, maybe I'll spend a month trying to increase my deadlift and get, get my deadlift up there. And then sometimes I'll be just trying to run and get my, my three mile timed run or my four mile timed run down. Or sometimes I'm trying to max out on pull-ups and see how many pull-ups I can get. And, and so I'm kind of always chasing some goal of some kind. And I never go too far in one direction

• 21:14Jocko Willink?

  because I think that, that would not suit me for the way I live. For instance, if I was just trying to get a massive deadlift, which is awesome, but if that's my sole purpose is to get a massive deadlift, well then I'm going to be as big and, and strong as possible, but that's obviously going to hurt my mobility. It's going to hurt my, my cardio. And so I get to a point where, you know, I'm maybe some percentage of my percent of, of my capability. And then once I get to that percentage and, and I get to that point where I'm really going to have to change my lifestyle in, in order to increase beyond that, that's when I say, okay, you know what, I've, this is where my deadlift is at right now. Let's start

• 21:58Jocko Willink?

  looking at how many pull-ups I can do, or let's, let's start seeing what other exercise I can move on to and, and find some other challenge. So that's sort of what my, my workouts are like. I'm always chasing something. The other thing with this is people get really fanatical about working out and, and they get into the, where their workout becomes a form of religion. And, and that's one of the reasons that I never really talk specifically about what I do for my workouts because I don't really like to preach about, you know, you should do this or you should do that. So I'm, but people are interested. So that's, that's why I put it out there. And it is, you know, the, the kind of training that I

• 22:39Jocko Willink?

  do. It definitely has been effective for me over the years in my various jobs. So. But I'm not a person that says, hey, my way is better than everyone else's way. I'm not one of those people. I'm not saying that at all. Actually, there's people that know more than me and there's people that have the better methodologies or different methodologies that work well for their system. And that's cool. That's cool. If you, if you wanna text or whatever, put, put on social media 8,000 times that you have something better, that's awesome. I appreciate your, your input. But I've been doing what I've done, done for a long time and it's not a religion to me.

• 23:17Jocko Willink?

  It's just a cool way of working out. So my workouts are, are kinda split into some broad movements. The broad movements are pull, push, lift, and squat. And how those break out, pull is basically centered around pull-ups. And in SEAL training, you do a lot of pull-ups and pull-ups are obviously important because you gotta be able to pull yourself up, climb ladders, all those things. And so, and it's also good to know that you can move your body weight around. So pull-ups are a huge part of my workouts and, and pull-ups is what the pull day is centered on.

• 23:58Jocko Willink?

  I do all different kinds of pull-ups, close grip and narrow grip and wide grip and ring pull-ups and, and climbing ropes and, and obviously pull-ups on a pull-up bar. And so, so that's what the pull day is, is based on. The push day is, again, it goes back, it's rooted in SEAL training, which is the push day is basically centered around push-ups and dips. And so, again, all the different kinds of push-ups and all the different kinds of dips, ring dips, bar dips, push-ups, close grip push-ups, wide grip push-ups, dive bomber push-ups, all these different types of push-ups that you can do. That's what that push day is centered on.

• 24:39Jocko Willink?

  The lift day is, for lack of a better way to explain this, the lift day for me is primarily about getting things off the ground and over my head. So, so that means deadlifts, it means cleans, it means clean and jerk, it means press, it means snatches, it means handstand push-ups, those kind of exercises. That's what the lift day is to me. And then finally squat. Which could also be called leg day, but that obviously focuses on all different kinds of squatting from back squat and front squat and overhead squat and all the other types of variations of squats that there are. But also, it's not just squatting because I'll

• 25:23Jocko Willink?

  do plyometrics and sprinting and calisthenics that are leg focused. So those are the, the kind of the four categories, pull, push, lift, and squat. And then on top of those, I do gut, which I guess it's what normal people kind of call core or abs. But I just have always called it gut. Again, that's rooted in the SEAL teams. They would, when I was a new guy in 1990, whatever, they'd say, we're going to do some gut work. And what that meant was you were going to work out your abs, you're going to do sit-ups, you're going to do Russian twists, you're going to do all flutter kicks, all those things.

• 26:06Jocko Willink?

  And, and then on top of that, I do metabolic conditioning. And, and the way I do metabolic conditioning, which is basically that means you're going to be breathing hard, really hard for either a short, intense amount of time, or maybe a little bit longer. But that's, that's what I definitely do metabolic conditioning. And the reason I do metabolic conditioning is so that I'm in good shape, so I can sustain a high output for short bursts and multiple short bursts and over longer periods of time. And I mix that in sometimes with the workout itself. And sometimes I do it before the workout, sometimes I do it after the workout. And, I mean, if you, if you talk about what my workouts consist

• 26:51Jocko Willink?

  of as far as time goes, my workouts just depend on what's going on in my world, in that day. Some of my workouts are very quick and I can get them done in less than 10 minutes. And they, they make you want to throw up. And at the same time, some of them, sometimes I'm working out for three hours, you know, maybe doing Singles and doubles and triples on, on weights for heavy exercises. So, and it depends. It depends on what I'm doing, what my current goal is, how I set those up. And it also depends on what life is throwing at me. Obviously, out on the road somewhere, you can't always do heavy squats because your hotel gym only has two 35-pound dumbbells,

• 27:37Jocko Willink?

  which really puts the heavy squats out of the picture. So you gotta be able to adapt and make something else happen. So, Tim asked that I talk about what an actual series of workouts from me would look like. And so, like I said, in the book, I actually put the workouts in the book. And so, I'll kind of read through some of these workouts a few days, so you get the feel for, for what it is. And these are, I went right to the advanced workouts. Again, there's beginner, intermediate, advanced. And maybe I'll talk a little bit about some of the beginner ones, too. But there is a place to start. If you can't do anything, you can still get started.

• 28:23Jocko Willink?

  But the advanced, here's a, here's an example of what I would do on a pole day for, for an advanced workout. So here we go.

• 28:35Jocko Willink?

  The primary work is going to be 30 muscle ups. And a muscle up is on rings. You can do them on a bar, too. I do them usually on rings. A muscle up is where you hold on to rings or a bar, like, like you're gonna do a pull-up. You do a pull-up, but you pull yourself all the way up and then press through until you've done a dip. And now you're in the dip position, either on top of the bar or on, above the rings. So it's called a muscle up. If you can't understand my description, then you can go to YouTube and look up muscle up, and you'll see them. So, 30 muscle ups and then 100 dead hang pull-ups, and then 100 kipping pull-ups. And I'll do all those for time as fast as I can.

• 29:18Jocko Willink?

  And then when I get done with those, I'll do some hang cleans, which again, this is a place where you might want to go to YouTube and check out what a hang clean is. YouTube is an incredible instrument and tool for, for trying to learn. That being said, when you go and you look at the YouTube video, what you think you're doing is not what you probably are doing, and that's why getting a coach to help you is very important. I, I remember one time I was coaching a guy in boxing, and in boxing, you, you're supposed to move your head from side to side. There's certain movements that your head is supposed to have. And I was, I was watching him do it, and he said, you know, how's my head movement looking? And I hadn't trained him in a while. He said, he said, how's my head movement looking at him, looking? And I said, well, go ahead and, and let me see it.

• 30:03Jocko Willink?

  And so he started doing it, and his, it was, it was hilarious because his head was staying absolutely still, but his shoulders were, he would lift his left shoulder, then lift his right shoulder, then lift his left shoulder, then lift his right shoulder, but his head was staying still. And I said, okay, it's okay, just come here and look in the mirror, because when, when you shadow box, you use a mirror. And he looked in the mirror and he saw what was happening. And in his mind, his head was moving back and forth from left to right, but in reality, the only thing that was moving was his shoulders lifting up. So you have to be very careful when you're, when you're lifting weights, that you, you, you truly are doing what you think you're doing, and the easiest way to do that is to have a coach come and watch you do your movements.

• 30:46Jocko Willink?

  So for instance, the hang clean is a, is a, is a movement that I would do next in this workout, and I would just do probably six sets, six sets of between three to six repetitions. And again, I'm just trying to maintain good form, and then get done with that. So I've done 30 muscle ups, I've done 100 dead hang pull-ups, and a dead hang pull-up, if you don't know what that is, that's where you, you don't use any motion of your body, you're using pure strength, and then I do 100 kipping pulls. Oh, and before everyone thinks I'm lying, or, or whatever, I, I can't do 100 dead hang pull-ups in a row, I can't do 30 muscle ups in a row, I can't do 100 kipping pull-ups in a row.

• 31:28Jocko Willink?

  When I talk about doing these, I talk about doing as many as I can and then I have to stop and shake it out. And then I jump up and do some more. So maybe for my 100 dead hang pull ups, maybe my first set, I only get 14 dead hang pull ups. I drop off the bar, I shake it out, I jump up there and I do another 10. So now I'm at 24. And then I can't do anymore. So I drop off the bar. Maybe I get another set of 10, then I'm at 34. And so that's what I'm gonna do until I get to 100. When I get to 100 dead hang pull ups, now it's time for me to do kipping pulls. Then I'll do the same thing. Maybe the first set I do 40 kipping pull ups. Once I've done 40, I shake off the bar or drop off the bar, shake it out a little bit. I'll jump up back on the bar and now I do 20. So I'm up to 60.

• 32:11Jocko Willink?

  And now I drop off the bar, I do it again, I get up to 80. So, so that's what I'm talking about. You're gonna break up these sets. Until you can get the number that you're aiming for. So then after I'd done 30 muscle ups, 100 dead hang pull ups, 100 kipping pull ups, then I jump into doing some six sets of hang cleans with a weight that allows you to do three to six repetitions per set. While you're still maintaining good form and it's again, it's critical to maintain good form. And then I would do five sets of reverse curls followed by regular curls. Now.

• 32:48Jocko Willink?

  I used to, I went through the stage of saying, oh curls, you know, those are, those are just the exercise for looking good. And I was kinda derogatory on doing curls, but I changed my mind, I would say a few years ago, I changed my mind because well, I hurt my bicep. And when I hurt my bicep, I said to myself, well, maybe my bicep isn't as strong as it should be. And the tendons going into it maybe aren't as strong as they should be. And so maybe I should do a little bit of isolation training on those muscles to make them stronger. And so that's what I started doing and it's, it's worked out well. My, my bicep healed and it's, hasn't been injured since then.

• 33:28Jocko Willink?

  So, so that's an exercise that even though people might think, oh curls, that's a bodybuilding exercise. Why would I do that? I don't care about looking good. I just wanna be strong. Well, it makes you stronger too. So that's, that's the curls. Then from there, I would do some gut work. The, the gut work I have listed on this particular workup is 100 V ups. Which is when you're laying flat on your back, arms extended above your head. Feet extended as far as you can and then you close up like a jackknife in a V position until you touch your toes to your fingers and then you lay back down. Do a hundred of those and then a hundred Russian twists, which is when your feet are up in the air,

• 34:12Jocko Willink?

  your torso is up in the air and you're bringing your hands back and forth from side to side. Get done with that and then I would do a little metcon work, so metabolic conditioning. And for this one here, I have listed do four sets of cleans and pull-ups with the following repetition. So I'd do a set of 20 cleans followed by 20 pull-ups, then 15 cleans followed by 15 pull-ups, then 10 cleans followed by 10 pull-ups, then five cleans followed by five pull-ups. And that's what I would do. And for the cleans, I'd use probably about 60% of my body weight to do cleans. And there you get a little cardio work during that.

• 34:55Jocko Willink?

  You will be breathing hard, I promise, if you give that a shot. So there's an example of a workout that I would do and for my pull day. You know, I'll talk about for, let's just do one more, go for a push day. Push day, here's another workout. So for this push day, I would be doing three minutes on and one minute rest of the following exercises. Ring dips, which are dips using gymnastics rings, ring push-ups, dips, clap push-ups, deep push-ups. So I'd do those deep push-ups in paralets, which are something, or use something where you can go deeper than your normal range of motion if you're on the floor.

• 35:41Jocko Willink?

  And then just regular push-ups on the floor. And so I'd set my timer for three minutes of work and followed by one minute of rest and then I'd go through the ring dips, as many as I can in three minutes, then rest a minute. And then do the same thing for the ring push-ups, the dips, the clap push-ups, the deep push-ups and then regular push-ups. And once my time is up, and this is something I always do is that when I get to that last set, the last set is kind of the easiest exercise. So, regular pushups are easier than clap pushups and they're easier than deep pushups. When I get there, I'm always gonna do a hundred at that last, that last, um, set. So, and again, that doesn't mean I can do a hundred pushups in a row, especially after I've done all this other work,

• 36:23Jocko Willink?

  but I will continue to take rests and break up the set until I can get to what I want to do. Until I get to that number of a hundred. Now, I get done with that, and I would do some repetitions of the snatch movement. The snatch is a really hard movement to do. And again, YouTube has some good visuals of what it looks like to do a snatch, but if you're gonna start snatching, you really need to get someone to watch you and a good qualified coach that can, that can watch you and make sure that you're doing these exercises right. And, you know, I would do some repetitions of that just to keep, just to build my own muscle memory and try and get better at the exercise. I'm not great at, at that exercise. And then do some gut, hold a plank for five minutes.

• 37:09Jocko Willink?

  And then for the metcon, for the metabolic conditioning, I do three rounds of max burpees in three minutes with one minute of rest between the rounds. And that right there, that'll inflict some damage on you if you go hard. You, actually, two minutes of burpees can crush people. If you go as hard as you possibly can for two minutes of burpees, it can, it can leave a mark, it can leave a mark, I, I will tell you. Now, for the lifting, again, you gotta be really careful and make sure that your, your technique is absolutely critical and you gotta, if you sacrifice your form, you, you will, it will not make you stronger. It will actually make you injured. And I wrote that in the book, that right there.

• 37:53Jocko Willink?

  Sacrificing proper form will not make you stronger, it will only make you injured. So try and find a good coach that's going to teach you these things. And for this, for instance, on a lift day, in this, in this workout that I've got in the book, it's, you could, I would do eight to 10 sets of clean and jerks, building up to four sets that, with a weight that allows me to do two to four repetitions. So I'm just doing eight to 10 sets, taking some time in between each set. This is a day where I'm trying to get stronger, trying to build my strength, trying to build my clean and jerk. So it's pretty simple. It's pretty straightforward. Eight to 10 sets of clean and jerks.

• 38:34Jocko Willink?

  And I'm doing, I'm trying to build up to where I do four of the sets are with a pretty heavy weight that I can only do two, three, maybe four times. Get done with that, I'm going to do some hanging windshield wipers for my gut, which is when you hang from a bar and you bring your legs back and forth like a set of windshield wipers. They're brutal, by the way. So be, be, uh, be ready for that. Sounds all, sounds all easy. They're not. And then for the MetCon, I would do this here, about 60% of body weight, 30 repetitions of clean and jerks, without putting the bar down. Once you get done with that, rest two minutes, do 20 repetitions of clean and jerks with the same weight.

• 39:19Jocko Willink?

  Get done with that, rest two minutes, all those without putting the bar down. Then the last one, you perform 10 repetitions. So you do, you get about 60% of your body weight, you do 30 reps, don't put the bar down during the 30 reps. Once you're done with the 30 reps, you can put the bar down. Rest for two minutes. Then pick up the bar again, do 20 reps. Same weight. When you're done with that, put the bar down, rest for two minutes. Two minutes is up, do it again, 10 repetitions. And then you're done. That's gonna get you some.

• 39:55Jocko Willink?

  It's a tough workout. I can assure you. And lastly, for, for a squat day, what I would do here is just gonna do some, some, some squats. I would do 50 overhead squats with about 60% body weight. And again, this is something you're gonna break up, you're gonna do what you can. You get done with 50 reps of that, you're gonna do 50 front squats with about 80% of your body weight, and then 50 back squats with your body weight.

• 40:27Jocko Willink?

  That's it. Pretty simple. Get done with that. Do some gut. Hundred sit-ups with 20% of your body weight sitting on your chest. And the metcon is to run two miles and I usually like to do some kind of a run when I get done squatting because it kinda loosens up the legs and gets some of that lactic acid moved out of there. So, those are some examples of the workouts that I do. And then I would, I normally just go right back into the workout. However, sometimes after I've brutalized myself for multiple days in a row, I feel like crap. And so I might take a rest day and what I do on a rest day is I'll still do something. Maybe I'll just go for a jog, maybe I'll go for a swim.

• 41:09Jocko Willink?

  Maybe let's go in there and do some, some burpees to warm up and then just do some good stretching. But I don't like to take a lot of days off, scheduled days off, because I think life brings me days off when, more often than I need. So whether it's your traveling or whether it's your water heater breaks or your car broke down or your kid got sick and you have to miss your workout, that's when I take my days off when I'm forced to by life. Now, again, inside this book, I've got beginner routines as well. And the beginner routines are actually, I'll look at one right now. For instance, for a pull-up workout, all you're gonna do is eight sets of max pull-ups.

• 41:52Jocko Willink?

  So you might only be able to do three pull-ups. And guess what? You're gonna do three pull-ups then. And then you'll rest for a few minutes, then you'll do another three or maybe you're only doing two. And then you do that eight times. And if you can't do any pull-ups at all, there's an answer to that as well. You jump up on the bar and you hold yourself up there as long as you can and you just do the negative work. So, and, and then you get done with that, you do some sit-ups as many as you can in two minutes. And then run 400 meters two times. That's, that's a beginner workout, uh, out inside this book. So I start off pretty easy and then it escalates as you get in better shape. And by the way, you can do that workout right there. It's a beginner workout, but you can do it if you do it, if you're advanced and you do it, you'll still crush yourself.

• 42:34Jocko Willink?

  Cause instead of doing three pull-ups your first set, you'll be doing 58. And then you'll get, you'll be getting your workout on. So, again, that's...

• 42:47Jocko Willink?

  That's the way the workout book or the book is set up as far as workouts goes. I also talk a little bit about training on the road because I spend a lot of time traveling with the Echelon Fund or consulting company. So I'm in hotel rooms a lot and I got some stuff in there about the kind of workouts that I do in hotel gyms. You know, sometimes I'll, for instance, throw a towel over a piece of gym equipment if they don't have a pull-up bar or I'll go into a parking garage because just about every parking garage has some kind of plumbing or piping up in the ceiling and so you can find a place that you can jump up and you can do some pull-ups. Be careful. Don't, don't break the plumbing and cause massive amounts of damage.

• 43:31Jocko Willink?

  But you find a good pipe or you find a, an I-beam that you can get, you can get a hold of and you go there and you do some pull-ups. So there's that. I've done, I've, I've spent many times doing dips between treadmills. I don't really like treadmills. If I'm going to run, I'm going to go run. But the, the, the treadmills have big handles on them, so I'll, I'll kind of move those around the floor a little bit and get some dips on those. And sometimes, in fact, oftentimes it's just the hotel room floor with their nasty carpets. And on those nasty carpets, I'll do burpees, I'll do push-ups, I'll do gut exercises, handstand push-ups, squats, pistols, which are one-legged squats. I'll do whatever and I'll just get crazy with the calisthenics.

• 44:12Jocko Willink?

  And a lot of times also when I'm on the road is I don't have a lot of time because I'm meeting with a client and then I'm speaking and then I'm going to a meeting and so my, my workout, and I flew in and I got in late and so a lot of times I'll just be doing some kind of a quick workout to maintain the discipline, the, to maintain the discipline and to get some level of workout and to get the blood flowing. Because I think it's bad when you don't wake up and do something. I always feel groggy for the day. So one of my favorite quick workouts to do is, is a hundred burpees for time, one minute rest, a hundred burpees for time. Get some of that. Again, it should probably take you less, less than 20 minutes for sure.

• 44:54Jocko Willink?

  And once you get done with that, you'll, you'll have the blood flowing and you'll feel better about yourself. Again, all those are in the book and yeah, you can check them out. Now, another section of the book that Tim wanted me to talk about was I, I talk about. Martial arts in the book and I've been training martial arts for a long time. And there's various types of martial arts. There's striking, there's grappling. And there's weapons. These are the kind of the broad, the broad martial arts categories, right? Striking, which is when you're hitting people, grappling, which is when you're grabbing people and using weapons. Obviously, there's all kinds of different weapons from knives to swords to sticks to firearms.

• 45:38Jocko Willink?

  Guns. And so I talk about those things, but I talk a lot about jiu jitsu, which, which I think is the best base to have for martial arts and Tim liked this part where I talked about why to start with Brazilian jiu jitsu and how it should be taught for self-defense. So here we're going to the book where I talk about why to start with Brazilian jiu jitsu. Start with Brazilian jiu jitsu. It is a form of grappling that is highly advanced because for the most part, the actual fighting takes place on the ground. This is a key point because our first form of self-defense is to get away.

• 46:23Jocko Willink?

  Yes, to run. If you are confronted by another person or a group of people, the best thing you can do is run away. Avoid the conflict. This is relatively easy. If someone is trying to strike you with punches or kicks, they do not have control over you, so you can simply run away from them. You've won. The problem comes in a self-defense situation when someone is grabbing you. Now they are preventing your first line of self-defense, running away. As soon as someone grabs you, you are in a grappling scenario. And one of the most critical parts of Brazilian jiu jitsu is escaping from someone's grip so you can run.

• 47:10Jocko Willink?

  Oftentimes, an attacker will take you to the ground in order to prevent you from escaping their grip. When this happens, the ability to ground fight isn't used not to stay on the ground, but to get up and get away from the attacker. The first goal of a beginner in jiu-jitsu is not to get the fight to the ground, but to get up off the ground and get away. This is an important distinction from people who believe the goal of self-defense in jiu-jitsu is to get the attacker to the ground. This is not true. The goal is to get away.

• 47:48Jocko Willink?

  But, as has been seen over and over again, fights often end up on the ground and therefore, a person must be prepared for it. Not training in jiu-jitsu because you don't want to go to the ground is like not learning how to swim because you don't want to go in the water. It doesn't make sense. The safest way to deal with the water is to be comfortable in it. Just as being comfortable on the ground is the best way to deal with that scenario, should it unfold in real life.

• 48:20Jocko Willink?

  So, that's one of those things that people, understandably so, if they learn that, if they think that jiu-jitsu, if you get attacked, what you're gonna do is grab someone and pull them to the ground. That's not what the goal is. The goal is to get away from people. So, unfortunately, in many fights, they end up on the ground. Because if you start hitting someone, their defense might be to grab you. And when they grab you, now you're in a grappling scenario. So, that is why jiu-jitsu is very important. Now, there's other great martial arts, and I talk about them in the book as well. One of the things that Tim asked me about is if I was teaching a jiu-jitsu

• 49:01Jocko Willink?

  to a sort of a semi-athletic person, not an Olympic decathlete, but not a couch potato either, what would the... First week look like. And the first, the first week would be pretty straightforward. The, the things I would want someone to understand are the fundamental positions of jujitsu. Jujitsu is a grappling art. You're, you're wrestling with another human being and there's certain positions and they have certain advantages and disadvantages. And so I would want them to understand these fundamental positions. One's called the mount, one's called the guard, one's called the back, one's called side control, one is called half guard.

• 49:42Jocko Willink?

  And I would want people to understand what those positions were. And how they related to jujitsu. And the next thing I would understand is this position, I would want my student to understand this position called the mount. The position is a position of dominance in jujitsu. The person that is mounted is on the top position and they have a lot of control over the person that's beneath them. And you, if you are trapped there, you are in a lot of trouble. And so one of the first things I would teach people is how to escape from that mounted position when you're on the bottom. And how to get back up to their feet.

• 50:24Jocko Willink?

  That's the next thing is how do you get back up to your feet effectively so that you can get away? And then I would want them to learn if they are, if they are in the mounted position, how would they do some kind of a submission hold? That's one of the best things about jujitsu is there's something called submission holds in it where you can make the person tap out or you can break their arm or put them to sleep through a chokehold. So I'd want them to start to learn to understand what submissions they are threatened with in the mount. And that means you need to know what the offense is. And then I would want them to understand how, how this other position, which is called the guard. And the guard is where you're on the bottom position.

• 51:06Jocko Willink?

  So someone has taken you to the ground and you're on the bottom and they're on top of you with their weight, but you've managed to get your legs around their body. So you have some control over their body weight. And then, once I, they understand how important that position is, then I would say, teach them some submissions and some sweeps, which is when you change position, you, you put the person on, you put your opponent on the bottom, you were on the bottom, and then you, you sweep them, and you put them on the bottom. And the whole time that I'm teaching these things, I think it's very important in jiu-jitsu, that you actually spar with other people.

• 51:43Jocko Willink?

  Because people need to believe that jiu-jitsu works, and one of the best ways to convince people that jiu-jitsu works is to actually have them participate in it. And actually have them train against another person, that's good. Because when you train with someone that's good, that's forty pounds lighter than you, and clearly weaker than you are, and yet, they can tap you out over and over and over again, it is a real eye-opener, and it will make a believer out of just about anyone. So, it's good to roll. Now, you do have to be careful, because when people first start, they go crazy. Their ego gets out of control, and everyone wants to just go a thousand percent against their opponent. So, it's usually better to pair up someone against someone that's a little bit better than them, or maybe even quite a bit better than them,

• 52:28Jocko Willink?

  so that they can understand how effective it is. And they can understand that no matter how much they panic, no matter how much they thrash around, no matter how much they use all their strength, that doesn't work in comparison to good jiu-jitsu technique. So, that's what it is for me, how I would kind of, that's how I, I actually, I do start people in jiu-jitsu. Now, there's something else to be said. When you go to a school, the school, wherever you go, does not revolve around you, just showing up there. So, you, you may not get this basic information, but what's cool about jiu-jitsu is, I look at it sort of like learning a language. And one of the best ways to learn a language is through immersion training. And that's what's gonna happen, you show up at many jiu-jitsu schools.

• 53:12Jocko Willink?

  You are going to get immersed in something you don't know what anything means, just like if you showed up in a foreign country with a foreign language, you wouldn't understand anything at first. And then you start to recognize a word here and a word there. And then you recognize a little sentence fragment. And then eventually you start putting the pieces together and then you can speak the language. The same thing happens in jujitsu. So you start recognizing a move and you see where another move ties into it. And eventually you put together a fragment of a series of moves. And then eventually you learn the language of jujitsu. So it's good to get the basics of all the different positions. And there's a million places to see those online. So that you'd kind of understand fundamentally what's happening in jujitsu. But the immersion training is very important as well.

• 53:56Jocko Willink?

  And you get in there, you get in the on the mat and you start training. Now, people also always ask, where should I train? What's a good school? And there's, I talk about this in the book and I'll go over some of the highlights of where, how to find a good jujitsu school. Again, because I get asked this all the time. And there's luckily in America, there's so many really good jujitsu schools nowadays. Jujitsu is very popular in America. And when I started, there was very few schools in all of America. And I was lucky to have a good school in San Diego, California. But that has spread now and there's really good schools all over the place. So number one thing I look at is actually proximity from home or work.

• 54:40Jocko Willink?

  I think it's very important that wherever you're going to train is close enough to you that you can get there conveniently without an 87 minute transit to get there. No, if I've got a place that's, I want my place to be as close as I can. I think that's one of the primary things you look at. How close is it so it's easy to get to? Whether you go there after work and it's so it's close to work or whether you go there after, when you get home because it's close to home either way. But having to drive 97 minutes to get to train somewhere is not going to be beneficial for your training. So look for somewhere, somewhere close. The other thing is now you need to find a qualified instructor. There's a lot of qualified instructors out there. There's, and you might have a black belt and there's a lot of outstanding black belts,

• 55:24Jocko Willink?

  but you might only have a brown belt or a purple belt depending on where you are in the world and how much jujitsu is where you are. And so you might only have a purple or a brown belt and that's actually fine. And back in the, back in the 90s, there were many schools in America that were run by purple belts and they were very successful and taught a lot of great guys. And now there's more black belts, so that's more common. As far as the legitimacy of the instructor. You can really, there's a lot of really good internet police out there that keep the the fakers in check. So, a quick Google, maybe ask some people, check some forums and find out if the person is legit or not. And that's, that's very beneficial.

• 56:08Jocko Willink?

  Cause you definitely want a good qualified instructor. Now, the other thing is with schools is there's two different extremes on the schools. There's very traditional schools and there's very non-traditional schools. The traditional schools are, everyone's wearing the same uniform. Everything is done the same structured way, each class. The instructors are called sensei or master or professor. And, and that's one type of school and they're great. Some schools that are set up like that are great schools. There's also very non-traditional schools that are very loose and everyone's wearing a different kind of uniform and people are kinda coming on and off the mat. And instead of calling the instructor professor or master or sensei, they'll just call them

• 56:52Jocko Willink?

  Jocko or Dean or Jeff. You know, just, it's all good. We're all friends and we're good, we're training hard. And there's no formalities, there's no bowing. There's all kinds of different schools. And, and again, both those types of schools are, are good. And they, both those types of schools have absolutely produced world champions. But it kinda depends what you like, what type of personality you have and where you think you'll fit in. And by the way, there's, there's schools everywhere in between as well. There's schools that are kind of in the gray area between the, the very loose school to the very traditional school. There's some schools that are in the middle. And then you wanna check that atmosphere out. You know, what is that atmosphere like and does the atmosphere match the goals that you have a- as a person?

• 57:36Jocko Willink?

  You know, if you just wanna learn some jiu-jitsu and start to train and you don't wanna compete, but you wanna know some good self-defense, eh, that's a one type of school and you can find a school with that attitude. You can also find schools that are crazy competitive and that's all they're focused on is sport jiu-jitsu and how can I win the next tournament? And they'll have very intense training. So, and, and again, everything in between. So you wanna find a place that goes and, and matches your goals. And, and I would recommend, when you go into a gym, you try some classes, you see what they're like, you meet the other students, you ask the other students what their goals are in jiu-jitsu. And I think you would. You you can make a good decision. And another thing is, I always say this, jujitsu is.

• 58:22Jocko Willink?

  Jujitsu is not a religion. It's and your instructors are not gods. They're people that are good at jujitsu. So if you start feeling there's a cult scenario happening, just be careful. That you shouldn't feel like that. Jujitsu is fun and it's a great sport. So you shouldn't be feeling that cult scenario happening. And you shouldn't be looking at your jujitsu instructor as a religious deity.

• 58:57Jocko Willink?

  So that's how you pick a school. And and the book also discusses other martial arts, boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, and like I said, firearms training. And and what's interesting about all these different types of training. And you might be thinking that I don't, I'm not interested in martial arts, which is fine. But I will tell you that, first of all, martial arts are great to train. Not only are they great for self defense and you learn how to handle yourself, they actually also make you a better person in a lot of different ways. You're able to handle yourself in any tough situation. You get confident because you know you can take care of yourself. And just the physical training, they make you sharper, both mentally and physically sharper and and tougher.

• 59:41Jocko Willink?

  And so that's that's why I think training martial arts and jujitsu and boxing and Muay Thai and wrestling and and firearms training and all these different martial arts type training, they they will help you not just in those specific arenas, but in everything that you're doing in your life. And I think that's, I think that's really why a lot of people listen to Tim, you know, myself included. We all want to hear ways to get better in every different aspect of life. And. The one thing that I know will make you better is discipline. The discipline to get up, the discipline to work out every day, the discipline to eat

• 1:00:21Jocko Willink?

  right, and the discipline to make good financial decisions and make disciplined choices about how you spend your time doing productive things. I think that discipline is the true pathway to improvement and like the book says, discipline is ultimately the pathway to freedom. So, a bunch of stuff in the book. I appreciate everyone listening. I supremely appreciate Tim for inviting me on to do this show. While he's not allowed to talk, I still am.

• 1:01:02Jocko Willink?

  I appreciate that and appreciate everything that Tim does and has done to support me in what I'm doing and for continuing to put out all the great content that he puts out to the world to help everyone out there learn, implement, and improve. That's all I got. Appreciate everyone listening. Have a good one, y'all. Out.

• 1:01:29Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered, it could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short.

• 1:02:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.