“Diddy Doc is Worse than Life is Prison” | How 50 Cent Ended Diddy's Career

YERRR – the boys break down the wild Diddy doc and everything it stirred up. From Biggie, Tupac, and the rise of Bad Boy, to power, control, and sociopathy, this doc is WILD and 50 Cent is WILDER for putting this all together! All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 0:00 START: Holiday drinking + Don’t care for names 1:56 Cultural Marxist + License to carry 3:51 Big Ant’s the truth + take you shopping 6:53 Diddy doc - College, Biggie and Tupac 21:11 Replicating his father + Domination 25:20 Ultimate gatekeeper + Diddy had the parties 30:00 Recurring themes + Breaking huge artists 33:30 Tech revolutions + TOP ME 38:25 Diddy likes what he likes + Always CLEAN 42:06 Balance with Cassie & Kim 45:47 “What’s wrong with that?” + Sociopathy 48:00 Sober MFers, Associations + Gang affiliations 55:11 Trauma & DV 59:51 Diddy is out soon + All in the edit 1:05:06 Docs are dangerous + Diddy showering 1:08:40 1st podcast appearance 1:10:11 NYC cops arrested ICE, Diddy’s options + Trump’s pardon 1:14:00 Federal crimes, It might be a wrap + Patreon convos This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long distance loathe. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  Yo, are we drinking or what?

• 1:33Speaker 03

  It's the holidays, bro.

• 1:34Mark Gagnon?

  We can't start, please.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  You might have to get something, man.

• 1:36Mark Gagnon?

  Please.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Because Al is saying sentences with more than three words. And then, once you get past three words, you don't know what's coming out.

• 1:44Mark Gagnon?

  You never know. Let's go. It's Secret Santa.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  That was good. All those are three sentences. That was three words. But once you get into the multi-salamic, bro, you get fucked up. You do get fucked up.

• 1:54Mark Gagnon?

  I was fired when you just said it.

• 1:56Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Yo, I was watching, what's the guy, Gene Deal? Do you know who that is?

• 2:00Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  He's like a Diddy guy. I don't know, he's like working with Diddy in the streets or some shit. Okay.

• 2:05Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, was he on the dock?

• 2:07Speaker 03

  No, he got cut out of the dock. Or he couldn't make it work because of the money. But he did an interview where he talked about it. I mean, New Yorkers are all the same. Because he was just trying to say what the director's name was and fucked it up 30 times. What was it? The director's name is Alice Stapleton. No, it's Alexandria, right? Whatever. Yeah.

• 2:24Mark Gagnon?

  See, see? Bitch ass nigga.

• 2:28Speaker 05

  He couldn't even get close.

• 2:29Speaker 06

  All the irony in the evidence.

• 2:30Speaker 05

  Literally, he couldn't even get close, bro. He was like, yeah, man, fucking, you know, Alice Staples? What's her name? And he kept on having to cut off trying to talk shit about the director.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Can I ask you a question? Is the gentleman you're talking about black?

• 2:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  Black people make no effort with white names. It's astonishing. The amount of times when I would go up in hood shows that they would bring me up is-

• 2:52Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 2:52Speaker 03

  Adam Schwartz.

• 2:54Mark Gagnon?

  Don't y'all have enough?

• 2:56Speaker 06

  Amash, I got Amash. For weeks in a row, I was Amash Singh.

• 2:59Speaker 05

  Amash is good.

• 3:00Speaker 06

  And not even sing. Y'all give it up for Amash. He was Smokey. Shout out to Smokey.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  There's still Oscars for a lot of black comics. Wait, don't we have enough what?

• 3:10Mark Gagnon?

  You have enough stuff. Like, we can get your name wrong. It's fine.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  Yo, I hate this Marxist mentality that's-

• 3:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  That has seeped its way into the podcast.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Postmodern Marxism.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is Marxism right here.

• 3:24Speaker 06

  We're leftists now, though.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  No, but Al and his Marxism, man.

• 3:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's a fucking cultural Marxist.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  You're a cultural Marxist. Don't you have enough?

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, dude.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  Don't you have enough?

• 3:34Speaker 05

  No.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  We don't have, don't you have enough podcast studios? How many podcast studios you need, Al?

• 3:40Speaker 05

  Don't you have enough fucking pockets on your man?

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Yo, don't you have enough pockets, Al?

• 3:44Speaker 05

  When is it enough?

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Okay?

• 3:46Speaker 05

  When do you have one more pocket?

• 3:47Mark Gagnon?

  I'll be holding suits, though. I'm just letting y'all know. I'm just letting y'all know. Y'all keep on with the jokes.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Y'all keep on with the jokes, alright?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Yo, can we just say, can we just announce on the podcast that Alex got a license to carry a concealed weapon?

• 4:05Speaker 05

  Yes, let's go.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Concealed weapon.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Concealed weapon.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Fucking so do I, dude.

• 4:13Mark Gagnon?

  That means the government thinks I'm safe.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Alright, so you, you can carry a, when does that come in, actually?

• 4:19Speaker 06

  He's not getting a gun.

• 4:20Mark Gagnon?

  They're still doing more background checks.

• 4:22Speaker 06

  It's not gonna happen.

• 4:23Mark Gagnon?

  You have to write a letter for me.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  Why is he?

• 4:31Mark Gagnon?

  Because he did like a good, he does like good like best men speeches and all that type of stuff. I think he's gonna write a fire letter.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  I'm not writing a fire.

• 4:37Mark Gagnon?

  A recommendation, yeah.

• 4:38Speaker 06

  Son, you think he's gonna write a letter?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  You're gonna shoot somebody.

• 4:41Mark Gagnon?

  He's gonna get his.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  You're gonna shoot somebody and then it's gonna be partially my responsibility because I was, you know, the one who got you the gun.

• 4:47Mark Gagnon?

  There you go. Now that's more street cred for you.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Do they know that you're arrested in Sweden? Do they know that you're arrested in Sweden?

• 4:52Mark Gagnon?

  No, they do not.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  But do they know that you spent a month in jail in Sweden? Do they know that you spent a month in jail in Sweden? Do they know that you spent a month in jail in Sweden? No, it's not. They have no clue that your name is ****. There's no way they could possibly know that.

• 5:06Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta blurp that.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, blurp that. You could blurp two out of three times that I said his name is ****.

• 5:12Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta blurp all that, bro.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  So they're gonna give you a fucking gun. Nail polish and a gun. Are you playing up the gay shit when you go in there?

• 5:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, Big Ant.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yo, Big, yo, shout out, Big Ant!

• 5:25Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, we got Big Ant.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  Only gay drill rapper, yo, Big Ant.

• 5:29Mark Gagnon?

  I'm not gay, so don't try me.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  You're what?

• 5:32Mark Gagnon?

  I said, I'm not gay, so don't try me.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Why'd you even say that right now? We're not even talking about it.

• 5:36Mark Gagnon?

  Because he's gay a little bit.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  You think he could take it?

• 5:39Mark Gagnon?

  He looks, you know, he's a size, I'm sizing him up.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  You know his nickname for you is?

• 5:44Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  Food Bank?

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Big Ant is hungry.

• 5:50Mark Gagnon?

  Shout out to the Food Bank of New York City.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Shout out to Food Bank NYC, but real Big Ant, we need you to pull up on a pod. Get a clip of Big Ant up. We need to watch that one from Patreon, cuz. Cuz Big Ant is really the truth right now. New Yorker of the Week. New Yorker of the Week goes to Big Ant.

• 6:05Speaker 07

  First New York City gay drill rapper, like, la la boom.

• 6:07Mark Gagnon?

  La la boom.

• 6:08Speaker 07

  Big Ant, the first New York City gay drill rapper, la la boom.

• 6:11Mark Gagnon?

  La la boom.

• 6:12Speaker 07

  I'm always valid in any street side walking. You heard what they said.

• 6:19Speaker 07

  I'm sorry, man. I'm muddy, like, what that mean? That's my man, like, that's, that's, that's my nigga, like, what's up?

• 6:25Mark Gagnon?

  This nigga's hilarious.

• 6:27Speaker 07

  I got the 380 in my purse, bitch, you fuck with me, you better duck, bitch.

• 6:33Mark Gagnon?

  With the hen, you're gonna fire, bro. How do they learn that?

• 6:36Speaker 07

  I'm shit and I do it in real life. I'm a drill rapper.

• 6:45Speaker 07

  Big Ant!

• 6:47Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, Big Ant, we need you here.

• 6:50Speaker 06

  I love this guy, dude.

• 6:52Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, Big Ant.

• 6:55Mark Gagnon?

  See, and then they turn that on.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Yup.

• 6:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, now you know how we feel.

• 7:00Mark Gagnon?

  The fuck?

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Now we know how we feel.

• 7:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, what you mean by that?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, what did you mean by that?

• 7:05Speaker 05

  What did you?

• 7:06Speaker 03

  I just backed you because your white is so high. And I thought it was the right thing to do.

• 7:10Speaker 05

  Well, you never been, talking to a black guy, you get scared really fast?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  No, I was scared that Alex is wearing his pants right now. I wanted to know how he got them. I want to know, you and Big Ant got the exact same bottoms on. I want to know if you've been, I don't know if you've been training a little bit.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  Big Ant gets swaggy.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Did Big Ant take you shopping? Yo, did he take you shopping? Did he take you shopping or not?

• 7:28Speaker 06

  I know, you can't say that. Is he on your Pinterest, though?

• 7:30Mark Gagnon?

  I took Big Ant shopping.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 7:32Mark Gagnon?

  Come on, man.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 7:34Speaker 05

  If you say that, you better duck, alright?

• 7:37Speaker 03

  For real? Look at Big Ant!

• 7:40Speaker 06

  Come on now.

• 7:41Mark Gagnon?

  Flop.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  Nah, Big Ant will take you shopping, bro. Get what you want, bro. He'll take you to the czar, get what you want.

• 7:46Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, don't do that, because...

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Don't do what?

• 7:49Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, is it?

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Don't do what?

• 7:50Mark Gagnon?

  Fuck. He or she?

• 7:53Speaker 05

  That's Big Ant, bro, what do you mean?

• 7:54Speaker 03

  It's a he, and he'll clap your cheeks, spit on your back. You want to get your back spit on?

• 8:00Mark Gagnon?

  No, but you know how...

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Big Ant is gonna clap your cheeks, spit on your back. Rest his Glock on your head.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  Oh my god. Yo, look at Big Ant, bro. A superstar is born.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Glocky boo boo.

• 8:12Speaker 06

  Truly, dude. Truly, superstar is born.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Glocky boo boo.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  Is that what Big Ant said?

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Yo, um...

• 8:18Speaker 05

  New Yorker of the Week, that's a good one.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  That's New Yorker of the Week, 100%, Big Ant. Listen, also New Yorker of the Week, Diddy. This shit was phenomenal. How many episodes have y'all seen?

• 8:32Speaker 06

  I saw the whole shit.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  You saw the whole shit?

• 8:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  You're four down, four down, okay.

• 8:36Speaker 06

  We all saw it.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Holy moly.

• 8:38Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Funny how this motherfucker in the group chat, "Everybody, make sure you watch the Diddy shit." How many episodes you watched?

• 8:44Speaker 03

  I watched all four of them.

• 8:45Mark Gagnon?

  No, you did? Why you lying?

• 8:46Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 8:48Mark Gagnon?

  This motherfucker seen one episode.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:51Mark Gagnon?

  It's motherfucker.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  What I say in the group chat, I said, make sure y'all seen at least one episode. This shit is amazing.

• 8:55Speaker 06

  Then you said, then you said, actually, watch two. You know what?

• 8:59Speaker 03

  Cause I knew, I knew.

• 9:00Speaker 06

  Maybe you watch three.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Did I say maybe watch three?

• 9:02Speaker 06

  Who not gonna watch four?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Did I say maybe watch three?

• 9:04Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  I got a child. Okay, I got a child. Miles is in Chicago, abandoning his children.

• 9:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  Okay, he's in Chicago, that's right, big hand.

• 9:14Mark Gagnon?

  I was in Chi-Town.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Clapping cheeks, spinning on your back.

• 9:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Okay?

• 9:17Speaker 06

  Oh my god, so you watch one episode?

• 9:20Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 03

  I watched one episode, yeah. What's, what, what's wrong with that? Why are we shaming me for watching one episode?

• 9:26Mark Gagnon?

  Bro, he lives in New York, he's from the streets, he knows what happened.

• 9:28Speaker 06

  You sent a mandate. You know how rarely he sends mandates on pod? Everybody, watch three episodes. Everyone on the couch. Yo, why you, why you separating the couch, by the way?

• 9:39Speaker 03

  I'm not taking it.

• 9:40Speaker 06

  Why you separating the couch?

• 9:41Mark Gagnon?

  Why you separating the couch, huh?

• 9:42Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 9:43Speaker 06

  You say everyone on the couch watch at least one episode. Oh, just cause you got a chair.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  I'm trying to get rid of the couch. I'm trying to get rid of the couch. No, I'm trying to get rid of the chair, I mean, I'm trying to get rid of the chair. I am trying to get rid of the chair. This should be all couches only.

• 9:55Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, Miles, where the, where the couches?

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've been asking for couches for three fucking weeks.

• 10:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, Miles, what's up, bro?

• 10:01Speaker 03

  How many people I gotta ask for a goddamn couch? Can we get back to this, though? Have you guys ever watched anything I've asked in the history of this podcast? The first time you do it is for Diddy.

• 10:09Speaker 06

  Cause you didn't ask. You told us to watch it.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Well, I should've been doing that in the past. I should've been doing that in the past.

• 10:14Speaker 06

  Oh god, we, we missed Yellowstone. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. The fucking cultural phenomenon of Karen Costner as a cowboy.

• 10:24Mark Gagnon?

  That shit did slap the way you thought it slapped.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  What, Yellowstone?

• 10:26Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I don't hear anybody talking about it.

• 10:27Speaker 06

  You gave up on it. What you talking about?

• 10:29Speaker 03

  Who gave up on it? Who gave up on it? I've watched all the other things from Yellowstone World. I watched 1923, I watched 1948, I've watched all the Yellowstone's.

• 10:41Mark Gagnon?

  I don't even know what that is.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  Yes, the Yellowstone World is, you know, the Dutton Ranch has existed before our time. And I found the story of how it was, it came to be.

• 10:51Speaker 06

  You watched one episode of that shit too?

• 10:52Speaker 03

  I watched, yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  No, I cleared through those seasons. I'm just, I'm going back on Stranger Things right now, but back to Diddy. Stop trying to get off the fucking topic. Yeah, why are you trying to offend Diddy?

• 11:03Mark Gagnon?

  Why are y'all trying to cover for Diddy right now?

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Ain't nobody getting off like Diddy. You guys watched the entire thing? You guys are both on flights across the country. Yeah, exactly. So you have no excuse, okay? You, you watch it?

• 11:13Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I was sick. So, I had something to watch.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  Alright, do you guys want to discuss it? Or do you want to discuss how many episodes we watched? You just had fucking access to some of it. What do you guys think would be the most interesting content for our listeners? Is how many episodes each of us watched are discussing the actual documentary. The worldwide sensation's number one in 32 countries in court of 50 cent who texted me.

• 11:31Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, whoa. How long did it take you to get through the fourth episode?

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Wait, what? What do you mean?

• 11:36Mark Gagnon?

  No, I'm just saying, we were still talking about it.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Oh, my. From the top, from the top, from the top. No, no, I'll bail him out. Alright, alright. Don't even bail him out.

• 11:46Mark Gagnon?

  I know, we need sound effects. Joey, right there, we need sound effects.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  I needed to know.

• 11:50Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  I needed to know. How many episodes you think it would take Joey to find one sound effect?

• 11:57Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? We're not gonna get a single, we're not gonna get another couch up and ask for another couch for a month.

• 12:03Mark Gagnon?

  Here we go.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  We don't even know what that was.

• 12:05Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that was great.

• 12:06Speaker 06

  Real talk, you've been asking for a couch since pre-Australia.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Since pre-Australia, right? Son, this is seasons ago. I've been asking for internet for the last two months. We finally had internet. There was a woman in a Hillary Clinton suit walking around here. I was like, the internet about to get worse. There's no way in hell that this lady knows how to put the fucking internet in here. That was the wifi lady? The wifi lady.

• 12:23Speaker 06

  She was just hacking emails, dude.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  Pantsuit, yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was very interesting. Anyway, so documentary. I mean, there's so many things I did not know. What, what? Well, the City College thing I had no idea about. Oh yeah, I had no clue about that. I'll be honest, I didn't know about that either.

• 12:39Mark Gagnon?

  I knew about that, I didn't know nine people died.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  I had no clue about the City College thing. Why are we making a big deal over the Shine murder?

• 12:49Mark Gagnon?

  Well, that's also bad.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  That's just one.

• 12:52Speaker 06

  Cause Sean was awesome, that's why.

• 12:53Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Sean was. You're talking about the shooting.

• 12:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, Sean got, he took the fall for it.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:57Mark Gagnon?

  That was also more directly Diddy's involvement than the City College thing, allegedly. I also don't know what is true and what's not, so I'm just gonna throw a million allegedly's out. What's the allegation?

• 13:07Speaker 03

  So, did you guys see how many allegedly's Netflix put out? Every time there was a statement about Diddy, it went to black screen and then writing on the screen.

• 13:14Speaker 06

  Beginning and end of every episode, same thing.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Throughout?

• 13:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't even know if you watched it.

• 13:19Speaker 06

  That's what every episode means.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  I don't even know if you watched it.

• 13:21Speaker 06

  What do you think I meant when I said every episode?

• 13:22Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, both talking about two different things.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:25Mark Gagnon?

  You're talking about how Netflix says, hey, we asked for a comment, and you're talking about at the end and the beginning of every episode, they said he got convicted.

• 13:32Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, you fucking dumb idiot, okay? Oh, wow.

• 13:36Mark Gagnon?

  This shit is, oh, yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Al, just relax, man. Al, this is too much. That's too much for your brain, Al. Al, your brain can't do too many things at one time.

• 13:44Speaker 06

  Yo, your nail polish pressing, that shit looks crazy, dude. It looks crazy. Silly string coming out of nail polish, it's wild.

• 13:51Mark Gagnon?

  Region, why is it, come on. All right. Back to City College. It's fun, though. What happened? Get it working. What happened at City College?

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Give me the other one, Mark.

• 13:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Give me the other one.

• 14:00Mark Gagnon?

  There you go.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  What happened at City College? Did you not watch any of the fucking episodes?

• 14:04Speaker 06

  No, no, what are your thoughts on it? Cause you said that was the craziest.

• 14:06Mark Gagnon?

  No, I was trying to.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  No, I didn't think that was the craziest one.

• 14:09Mark Gagnon?

  I'm trying to give clarity to listeners who might not have also watched on this section.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Sorry, this is a little disorganized here. Mark brought a toy.

• 14:15Mark Gagnon?

  People still are.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  And, uh.

• 14:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I know. This is more important now.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  We're not sure how to do this podcast with this toy here.

• 14:21Mark Gagnon?

  Audio listeners have no idea there's a toy in the room, and people who didn't watch the doc don't know what the fuck City College is about. Sorry, audio listeners, nah, my bad. Mark really brought a fire toy, though.

• 14:31Speaker 06

  All right, so Diddy started as a party guy. He would promote parties. And then him and Heavy D, who was the biggest rapper maybe in the country at the time, definitely in New York, had a. Had a rapper, like a musician basketball game at City College in Harlem.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 06

  And then they were filled up, they were at capacity, it was like $12 to get in, but so many people tried to bum rush the doors. And they didn't realize the doors don't open out, you can't bum rush the doors.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Tragically nine people died.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  Crowd crushed, nine people died.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  And then, I guess I-

• 15:00Speaker 06

  Diddy was like 19.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  I'm trying to understand why this is Diddy's fault, I guess for not hiring enough security?

• 15:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  And is, like, do you blame him for that? Or do you blame the people that are pushing into an event that they don't even have tickets for? That crushed the other human beings right in front of them.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  I think they also said he overbooked, that was the allegation.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Uh, he sold more tickets than he should have.

• 15:19Speaker 05

  That's what the allegation was.

• 15:20Speaker 06

  A concert overbooked by more than 2,000.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  Oh, if you, if that, then that's definitely-

• 15:25Speaker 06

  Only $500 spent on crowd control.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 06

  Also, this is the first time, I think they say like, this is the first time you see him get away with some shit and just kind of deflect the, on the narrative and be like, "I'm a positive black man trying to do positive things and they're trying to bring me down." Which is kind of his go-to narrative. Anytime he got in trouble.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  I mean, he was doing positive things for the neighborhood.

• 15:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, but he would hide behind that, he'd use that as a shield, like, uh, what's his name, like Pablo Escobar did charity. He still was a drug kingpin killing a lot of people.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  But at this time, he didn't do anything negative, just-

• 15:53Speaker 06

  No, but this is the first, I think they look at that as like, oh, that's when he realized, oh, I can get away with some shit.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, at the end of the first episode, there's a great thing about like, his envy of Tupac.

• 16:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  And in, I forget exactly which character is saying it, but he's, he's basically saying, uh, He's like, here's the thing with Diddy, it's like, Diddy is a marketer, which at its core is a manipulator. And he has a resentment for talented people. Because people like them without manipulation. And this idea that like, Diddy really treated everybody that was around him as his like, wife. And to have that relationship with Biggie, where he's envious of Tupac, because Biggie and Tupac are connecting. Obviously, they're gonna connect more, they're both artists, they're both great at rapping, this is the thing that they've dedicated their lives to, like, Why would Biggie look up to Diddy over Tupac? It makes no fucking sense, right?

• 16:50Speaker 03

  So, but him being so envious- So protective and maybe looking at this massive investment that he just made potentially leaving him. For somebody he respects more.

• 16:59Speaker 06

  And he was trying to sign Pac and Pac was not with it.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, obviously.

• 17:02Mark Gagnon?

  Tupac was also putting Biggie on game in terms of the music business, how it operates, and he should restructure his contract. So that also was another piece of the puzzle that like got Diddy upset.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Is that episode two?

• 17:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm not even lying. Episode two, they really make it seem like Diddy's the reason both of them died.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Really?

• 17:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. And again, documentaries, they have their slant, you can edit, but like they make that shit seem fairly strong.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  I will say this, I don't think, I don't know, I don't think, I don't think Diddy was involved in Tupac's death. I think it was a little bit more simple. It's like Tupac snuffed a, let me just get it out. Tupac fights a high ranking Crip, high ranking Crip, sends some guys to go kill Tupac.

• 17:49Speaker 06

  So what they say is that guy was a Southside Crip who was affiliated with Diddy. Diddy was, got cool with the Southside Crips, was somebody high up.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 06

  And then that guy had robbed one of Pac's people, I think, right? And then Pac's, Pac's boy that got robbed is like, yo, that's the motherfucker that robbed me. So Pac just goes, gets his get back, but they're like, oh, this is the opportunity. And then we can use this and was fucked up, man.

• 18:12Mark Gagnon?

  Weeks before that, so Kevy D allegedly says that he was, had a conversation with Diddy. And there was a, either a $2 million.

• 18:21Speaker 06

  $1 million.

• 18:22Mark Gagnon?

  A million dollar bounty on Pac and Shook.

• 18:25Speaker 06

  Diddy said, I'll pay a million dollars, you kill Pac and Shook.

• 18:28Mark Gagnon?

  So if you know that hit is on the street already and now he just started a fight with your guy, it's like, oh, this is perfect. We can get our get back and get paid. Imagine if there wasn't the incentive of making money.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  I hear what you're saying.

• 18:41Mark Gagnon?

  Taking it to that.

• 18:41Speaker 06

  It's a brutal scene, man. They, they say it, they, they shot him, then they just pulled off, watched the ambulance pull up. And it was just like a fucking brutal scene, man. It was brutal. Like, it's just heartless.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  And then apparently they stood there the whole time.

• 18:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, they just watched it.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Kevy D says allegedly, like after the shooting, he was like, yeah, we just stood and watched the ambulance take him out.

• 18:59Speaker 06

  Well, ambulance, but yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  So you think Diddy was involved?

• 19:04Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  You think he was involved in Biggie's death too?

• 19:07Mark Gagnon?

  His involvement, Biggie's death is more so ego. He's like wanting to show that, hey, we're not scared. So Biggie was supposed to fly out to London to shoot some shit.

• 19:17Speaker 06

  They were gonna do European press, the first time a bad boy artist is doing European press. Biggie was hyped. Biggie didn't want to be in Cali, but Diddy was so upset by Hit 'Em Up, so upset by Shug taking shots at him. He was like, no, we're gonna go there. I'm gonna make you do press. And then the day Biggie's supposed to fly out, Biggie wants the fuck out of Cali. He's like, this isn't safe for me. Everybody's told me I shouldn't be here. Diddy tells the guy that says number two, that he eventually squeezes out of the company, his childhood friend. He goes, yo, Biggie's not going to LA, or to London. He's going to this party with me, staying in LA another day. Diddy thought it was important to say fuck you to them and throw a party in LA. Fuck you to death row. We're gonna throw a party in enemy territory. And that's the party where Biggie gets got.

• 19:58Mark Gagnon?

  So not like he ordered the hit, but because he just wanted to show that he wasn't afraid to be in the West Coast.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  He wasn't pussy.

• 20:04Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that's what got Biggie murdered.

• 20:07Speaker 05

  And then retaliation, obviously, for the Pock shit.

• 20:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Why retaliation for the Pock shit?

• 20:13Speaker 06

  Well, people killed Biggie retaliation for Pock because they thought Biggie and Puff were behind us.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  God, it got it kinda.

• 20:18Speaker 06

  And Pock thought Biggie and Puff were behind the first shooting. Especially Puff.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 06

  The first time he got shot. That's where the whole rift started.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  Do you remember when they died?

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:32Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 20:32Speaker 05

  That's crazy. Could you put it on a scale? Like, is it the, like, obviously rap is different now, but like, I'm trying to wrap my head around the moment. Is it the equivalent of like, the biggest rappers in America now getting killed?

• 20:43Speaker 03

  Abraham Lincoln got shot. That's the only thing I would compare it to.

• 20:47Mark Gagnon?

  Kendrick, the amount of highlight that was on that, it was.

• 20:51Speaker 06

  But tragedy. But like tragedy.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I would, I would say, I would say way more.

• 20:55Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, I don't think I would.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Like, no, Drake Kendrick is different. Drake Kendrick was like excitement around it. There are people like, oh, we got a beef, here we go. This was shock.

• 21:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  This was like sadness. This was like, you couldn't believe it. Like, I remember we were, I was in middle school, so you must have been really young, huh?

• 21:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  You were probably in like third grade or something like that.

• 21:17Mark Gagnon?

  But I still remember, yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 03

  But it was just like, yeah, you just couldn't believe that this was real. Also, at the end of the day, we're like kids and like, we're like. Derivative from the street, right? Like, yeah, we're in New York and we see things happen, but it's not written, nothing really is gonna come of it, right? These guys are on MTV with Carson Daly who got painted nails.

• 21:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Like, it's not, it's not real. Tupac's in fucking movies that we would go watch. It's not real.

• 21:41Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. And then it got very real. We would be playing around like, and be like, oh, west coast, east coast, like us fighting with one another type of shit, like, yeah, it was a joke to us.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Right. It was wrestling.

• 21:51Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  It was wrestling. And it was cool to have an, like, you had like an identity in it as a kid. It's crazy how like people get wrapped up in the cult.

• 21:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Like, just because we're from New York, we're like, man, fuck Tupac. Like, he rhymes Hennessy with enemy every song. You know what I mean? Like, we're just finding these reasons not to like Tupac, but like, I like Tupac. I thought the music was great.

• 22:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  So, yeah, it was, uh, it was very, it was a weird time, man.

• 22:17Speaker 06

  And again, edits are edits, but they really put this shit on Biggie, I mean, on Diddy. Like, Diddy was the guy, was the catalyst for this whole thing and poured a lot of gas on everything.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 22:27Speaker 06

  And Mayer made, allegedly, put a hit out on Pac and Suge. And then he only paid 500,000 because he's like, well, you only killed Pac.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  That's far. I mean, it's tragic, obviously, but like, this guy's so, such a lunatic that he would do something like that? Like, what I thought was crazy about it was the, um, I never knew that he, I knew he was from Mount Vernon, but I never knew that like his dad was a hustler.

• 22:51Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  So, I never knew that.

• 22:54Mark Gagnon?

  And like, he's proud of that shit.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, but it's kind of, and who got like killed. But the way that they frame it, that, that he was trying to be this hustler. Because I've spoken to other people who remain nameless, whenever they've talked about him, they've always said this about Diddy. Like, he's always kept like one foot in the streets. And I go, what do you mean by that? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, like, he's always, he's still connected with the street shit. And I'm like, I thought this guy's from like Mount Vernon. Like, I never connected him with streets at all.

• 23:24Mark Gagnon?

  Hmm.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Right? And, um, but seeing that that was the aspiration and like seeing everything as a function of power. Like, him trying to fuck the hottest rapper's girl, it's not even because he likes a girl.

• 23:37Speaker 06

  No.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  It's just, it's this, this expression of power.

• 23:41Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  I fucked the hottest rapper's girl.

• 23:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  I'm that powerful. And I think that's why he was doing the gay shit. Like, sex just became a function of power.

• 23:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  So it's like, what is more powerful than just fucking a dude?

• 23:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true. I don't even know if that sentence makes sense. No, no, but what is a greater expression of how powerful you are, a straight guy, right? Is willing to fuck you.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Simply because what you have.

• 24:10Speaker 05

  Spit on your back.

• 24:11Speaker 06

  Well, also, a lot of times, what one guy was saying in the last episode is like, he'll drug you without you even realizing it.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:17Speaker 06

  And you'll just wake up and be like, what's going on? I'm sore. What the fuck happened? And he's just like, I think there's also, you hear this with sexual assault, rape type shit, there's power dynamics involved in that.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  I would say that too, if I was a guy who got fucked by Diddy. I would say I got drugged too. Guys.

• 24:30Speaker 05

  So much. See you there.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  That's the thing that like this generation that's watching right now, they don't understand it because the young people grew up with Spotify artists and TikTok artists and like Pro Tools and you make your own beat and you just put it out. You couldn't even record anything without a professional studio back in the day. Consider that. You couldn't even speak into a microphone and record it with a beat without a studio.

• 24:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  So having, they had so much power, so much access to people's dreams. And I think that Diddy's like lust for power is the reason why he didn't try to be a, he eventually was an artist a little bit, but initially, remember they show him dancing? And he was trying to be a dancer and he was in the music videos and then he pivots. He makes this hard pivot to be like Andre Harrell's side guy, like his right hand man. And to me, what that says is, is Diddy has this like undying thirst for power. And he goes, ooh, the power's actually there. It's not in the artist. These artists don't have control when they put an album, when they get studio time, what songs they get, when they go on tour. It's that guy over there that tells them what to do and they're all kissing that motherfucker's ass?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Fuck dancing the videos. I want to be that guy.

• 25:40Speaker 06

  But this is where the power never stops when it's insatiable. Then it seems like he gets jealous of the artists. Now I want to be the A and R guy and I want to be the biggest artist. And I have all these people write raps for me. And I'm gonna make sure my artists never get bigger than me on my songs. Dog, there was a thing, I think this was after Biggie died, you know, Puffy saying this, my brother's my best friend. He tells the number two at his company, Biggie's supposed to get a Rolling Stone cover. He says, no, fuck that. I need to promote the No Way Out album. So I'm getting Rolling Stone. Make sure they put me on the cover. Box Biggie out after his death of a Rolling Stone cover and then he took it.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  That's fucked up.

• 26:17Speaker 05

  And that made Biggie pay for the funeral.

• 26:19Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Oh, dog.

• 26:20Mark Gagnon?

  Shit is, I heard that one. That's, that's fucking crazy.

• 26:22Speaker 06

  Doug, he would, he would charge you for, like, he would take money out of your deal for recording time in his studio. So he would just find a way to never pay anybody. That's like-

• 26:30Mark Gagnon?

  That's what they all do, though.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:31Mark Gagnon?

  That's nice.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  But like, he would appear in the music video and then pay himself a talent fee for being in the video?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, so here's something to that. Here's something to that. What, there's that line that's like, that happened, I think it was at the Source Awards or something like that. I don't know if it was-

• 26:45Speaker 05

  Chug, Chug. Chug. Saying, yeah, come to death row.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Come to death row, if you don't want your producer all up in the video, etc.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Diddy was bigger than his artists. You want him in the video.

• 26:57Speaker 06

  Not at that point. He wasn't bigger than Biggie in 95.

• 27:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 27:01Speaker 06

  He wasn't. He wasn't bigger than Craig Mack, Flavort in the Ear.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  You think?

• 27:04Mark Gagnon?

  It's hard to think, but try to go back, like, if Diddy wasn't next to Biggie, he, Biggie would've still been that guy. He had so much swag to him.

• 27:12Speaker 06

  Biggie might have mar- Puffy might have marketed Biggie better.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 06

  But seeing Puffy in a video didn't mean shit.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, let, let me clarify. At a certain point in time, like, when Puffy first breaks off and does Bad Boy, nobody knows who Biggie is. Puffy puts Biggie on.

• 27:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  Right?

• 27:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  So like, he is effectively a much more powerful person in the industry, a much more known person in the industry. So him cosigning Biggie is massive for Biggie. So being all up in the video-

• 27:41Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know about that.

• 27:41Speaker 06

  One point. Hold on, one point.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  How can anybody know who Biggie is?

• 27:43Speaker 06

  He got fired from Uptown Records at that point.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 06

  And Andre Harrell said, "I'll let you keep Biggie."

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:48Speaker 06

  Which is a massive gift, but he got fired from, he was the king, he was, Andre Harrell's a kingmaker, he's the number two, then he gets fired and he got one artist. So I don't think he's got heat like that.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. He had the parties. This is where I think a lot of people don't realize, like, Andre Harrell, like, was selling lifestyle. That was what Uptown was doing. And then Diddy did that better than anybody, right? And it was Diddy presents this. So he owned the culture. And owning the culture is how you can break artists, it's how you can control, it's another power flex, like, "I can't get, if you piss off Diddy, you're not gonna be able to go to his parties," and that's where everybody goes, etc.

• 28:27Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  So like, I, when he broke off from Uptown, what he didn't have is the funding of Uptown. But what he still had is the culture and the cachet. And then when he connects with, who is it? Clive Davis?

• 28:38Mark Gagnon?

  Clive Davis.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  So he goes to Clive Davis, now all of a sudden he has the money. So he already has the culture, he has the parties, he has the places people wanna be, he has the places to break the records to the people who are gonna listen to them.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  Why does he need Andre? And clearly he doesn't because he takes Biggie and they go fucking crazy.

• 28:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, he got, he got Clive after Andre Fireman, but yeah, I see your point. I still think-

• 28:59Speaker 03

  I know, that's what I said.

• 28:59Speaker 06

  Two most record buying audience, which is kids in suburbs like me. Biggie was a guy you knew of. I didn't know who the fuck Puff Daddy was until-

• 29:06Speaker 03

  I don't even think they were the ones buying the records initially. I think suburban whites buying records-

• 29:12Speaker 06

  Was later?

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Comes later. I think it's when it's like completely MTV-ified, when the UMTV raps like really kinda takes over. I think initially, I don't think like, I don't think hip-hop was that big. I think NWA makes it fucking explode. It's like loud, it's rebellious, but like before that, kinda niche. It was this like new, like weird type of music that like white people were like-

• 29:33Speaker 06

  That's fair, but this is six, seven years after NWA. So rap is out there. Now maybe not gangster rap, but rap is a thing.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  No, no, of course, of course rap is a thing. There's no question. But it's not what we know it as now.

• 29:42Speaker 05

  But did he have to charge to pay, to be in his own artist video? I guess that's the thing where it's like-

• 29:47Speaker 03

  I don't think you should, but what all these fucking, I mean, how these labels make money is they do this kind of like Don King type shit. Where like you get charged for every single fucking towel.

• 29:56Speaker 06

  I think the thing also is, and you just see this, this is where the editing is like, okay, it could be edited, but the recurring themes of a lot of this.

• 30:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 06

  Everybody's like, I didn't get the money from Diddy.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 06

  I was supposed to have 25% of Bad Boy. He shows up with a bat and says, hey man, I need you to sign this over. I'll give it back to you. I just need to do this deal. Never gives it back. That guy, that producer, I'll pay you 250,000 and then they play voicemails of him being like, yo man, I'm gonna get it to you. I just gotta handle this thing. Hey man, some shit came up. Hey man. And then when the guy gets mad, he's like, I don't like your energy dude. Why you acting like this?

• 30:27Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, the tricky, yeah, the tricky thing is that like, once you know you can fuck people over and you're like a maniacal sociopath like him, that's just power hungry, you just go, alright, I just won't pay you.

• 30:37Speaker 06

  And I think that's the point they tried to make with City College, whether it's true or not, is this is when the sociopath realizes, I can get away with anything. Nine people died and I come out looking good?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  Oh shit.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  Gets more famous?

• 30:50Speaker 06

  I got more famous? I'm the guy now?

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 06

  Now I can do whatever I want?

• 30:53Speaker 03

  That's the thing that I think this generation really doesn't understand and I think it's like, I don't think they really understand how important the gatekeepers were to the music industry. And even after he left Uptown, he was, he was massively powerful.

• 31:07Speaker 06

  Okay, fair.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Massively powerful.

• 31:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Because think of the artists that he broke, like he breaks Marriage at Blatch. Right, like, he breaks Jodeci.

• 31:16Speaker 06

  Jodeci, yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  So, all these other people. What's that?

• 31:19Mark Gagnon?

  112 Mace.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  But, did those come with Bad Boy? I think they were later, right?

• 31:24Speaker 06

  They're later, they're later.

• 31:25Mark Gagnon?

  But it's still him breaking.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  But, of course.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  This is Uptown, he's still the guy.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  Just because he's not attached to Uptown doesn't mean he's not massively powerful, right? Because at that moment, the only two ways, and they say in the documentary, the only two ways you can make, like, legacy money in hip-hop is through Russell Simmons or Andre Harrell. Think about that level of power. What if the only way to get on TV was between two channels?

• 31:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Think about how much power those two people would have.

• 31:51Speaker 06

  We're getting to that point, by the way.

• 31:53Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. But...

• 31:56Mark Gagnon?

  Which is getting back to what it used to be, because MTV and BET was...

• 31:59Speaker 03

  That was it.

• 32:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, if you wanted to see music, you had to turn on one of those two channels.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  You're 100% right.

• 32:04Mark Gagnon?

  There was no YouTube, there was nothing.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  And, we would flip back and forth from, uh, what is it, uh, TRL?

• 32:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, and 106 and Park.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  And then 106 and Park.

• 32:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  And we would watch 30 seconds of a music video. Hit me baby one more time. And to make it fit the half-hour segment, whatever it was, we couldn't even watch the whole music, but, wow.

• 32:26Speaker 06

  And we were complaining then about attention spans being too short.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  There's, there's, there's this guy named, like, Douglas Adams, he wrote The Hitchhiker's Guide, I forget.

• 32:34Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Anyway, he, there was something in it, that he said, uh, like, the different stages of life, I'm gonna fuck this up, maybe you can bring this up, but, but, um, because I was doing just some kind of, like, reflection, like, what's happening in culture, and I'm like, what the hell is going on? It was so normal back in the day, and things are so extreme and crazy right now. And, he had said that, like, this is the life cycle. It's like, when you're young, you're, you're, you're not really paying attention to things around you, you get into, like, your twenties and early thirties, and you're like, this is how things should be, this is perfect, there's all the opportunities, then you get in your forties, and you go, things were so much better back in the day, these things are so crazy right now.

• 33:13Speaker 06

  And, because you were a part of the change.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  Exactly. Now, ours is maybe the most drastic in history, because we lived pre-internet and post-internet?

• 33:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, pre-AI, post-AI.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  It's, it's insane, like, it's... Especially our age, cuz old people live pre-internet and with internet, but they don't really use the internet.

• 33:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  They just have like bigger fonts on their phones. That's it. That's an old people's change.

• 33:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  But we actually use it and will actually kind of use AI, I will admit. But like, our generation is.

• 33:40Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I know. It was fun.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  It's like Stone Age.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  It's crazy what we, and kind, yes, things are crazy on the internet. And yes, we see all this kind of wild stuff and conspiracy, everything. We're handling it pretty fucking well. All things considered.

• 33:56Speaker 06

  All things considered.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  For how in.

• 33:58Speaker 06

  Important caveat, but yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  You can make a video online with all of us having an orgy with each other.

• 34:04Mark Gagnon?

  Come on.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  That is indistinguishable from your regular life.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  No, but like, think about that, like.

• 34:14Mark Gagnon?

  Don't put me in that.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  I know, we're just brilliant idiots and calling gay for like an hour and a half.

• 34:21Speaker 05

  Baby oil.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  But, but yeah, I don't know, we're handling it okay.

• 34:25Mark Gagnon?

  And it's too easy to do that now. One of the fans is gonna actually make the orgy video.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Yo, run it. Run it. Top me. Top me.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  Spin on my back. Bro, I saw an article that watching fucked up videos online can actually give you PTSD.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  Hold on one second. I've come with a set of rules to describe our reactions to technology. Anything is the world when you were born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural, natural part of the way the world works. Anything that is invented between when you're 15 and 35 is new and exciting and revolutionary, and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after 35 is against the natural order of things. I mean, tell me that isn't.

• 35:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's brilliant.

• 35:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 06

  Brilliant.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  I'm shocked that you let him get through that whole quote without calling him gay or something. That was like really respectful.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Well, you'd be calling Douglas. You know, it's what Douglas said.

• 35:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I ain't gonna put that on Big Doug.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  Big Doug, Big Doug.

• 35:20Speaker 06

  You put work in.

• 35:21Speaker 05

  No, I'm getting to that point. I can feel it. I'll listen to a new song. I'm like, nah, this sucks. Yeah, like it's getting closer every year.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Dude, I said this nigga, you 19, like what the?

• 35:31Speaker 06

  No, no, he's old, dude.

• 35:32Speaker 05

  I'm washed, bro.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Are you 30 yet? How old are you?

• 35:34Speaker 05

  Almost.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  He not even 30 yet.

• 35:36Speaker 05

  I'll be 30 in a few months.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  You're 29 years old?

• 35:39Speaker 05

  29, bro.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  Right side of 20.

• 35:41Mark Gagnon?

  You ain't aging good, so. I'm sorry, but you're not, man.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  I think I'm gonna look like this for a while. I think I'm pickled.

• 35:48Speaker 05

  Twenty-nine, and you're wearing a beanie inside.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 35:54Speaker 06

  The Al win one, too.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  No, but Al needs it. I get that.

• 35:59Mark Gagnon?

  Uh, fuck you. Fuck everybody.

• 36:01Speaker 05

  Al looks like Tim can't swim in a pool.

• 36:05Mark Gagnon?

  Let's go.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Nah, nah, nah, nah.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Let's go.

• 36:08Speaker 06

  I haven't even get it.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  Nobody knows.

• 36:11Mark Gagnon?

  You know who Tim Poole is?

• 36:12Speaker 06

  Ah.

• 36:14Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta explain it.

• 36:15Speaker 06

  Nah, nah, you just got so defensive a joke was coming at you.

• 36:19Mark Gagnon?

  You don't give that to him. You tried to bomb that shit.

• 36:22Speaker 06

  You know who Tim Poole is?

• 36:24Mark Gagnon?

  I do know who Tim Poole is.

• 36:25Speaker 06

  There we go.

• 36:26Mark Gagnon?

  But you had to explain it.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  I did have to explain it, which sucks. I did have to. I agree with you on that.

• 36:30Speaker 06

  It was a lot of words.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  It was a lot of words. It was a lot of words.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  So many words.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  So many words.

• 36:38Speaker 05

  Can we get back to Diddy, dude?

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:40Mark Gagnon?

  Well, yeah, was there anything that surprised you guys in the documentary?

• 36:42Speaker 05

  I thought it was gonna be more gay stuff.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Talk to me.

• 36:44Speaker 05

  It was very little gay stuff.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz you don't really know Diddy.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  I know nothing.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 05

  And everyone's like, dude, Diddy's Epstein. And I was like, dude, this is gonna be fucking crazy. Then they were like, well, you're like, you know, probably kill some people and beat some women. And I was like, oh, alright.

• 36:58Mark Gagnon?

  But this is the thing. No guy wants to talk about getting buttfucked.

• 37:02Speaker 06

  One guy did, and Andrew was like, nah, he's lying.

• 37:05Mark Gagnon?

  That's what I'm saying. That's why nobody wants to come up. He's like, yo, I gotta admit this embarrassing shit, and still people ain't gonna call me a liar? Like, that sucks.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 37:14Mark Gagnon?

  But multiple people admitted to it. His co-founder, he says he got molested.

• 37:18Speaker 05

  He got tried, or did he get actually?

• 37:20Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, but he says throughout his time there, he got sexually assaulted a couple times.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Remember when I itched my butt during Brilliant Idiots? I like, did I eat deep scratch in my butt?

• 37:29Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, before we started.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Before we started recording Flagrant, I went to the bathroom, cuz I was like, I gotta check on something. And I sat down without pooping, and I wiped, and there was a full... I think I might have forgot to wipe. Before we did Brilliant Idiot, so I did a whole pod with full shit on my ass after a shit. Okay, that's how I know that guy wanted to get buttfucked.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Okay, no.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  Because that's what guys butts look like. That's what guys butts look like and Diddy's not sticking his dick in that doo doo.

• 37:57Mark Gagnon?

  No, that's yours.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  How do you know?

• 37:59Mark Gagnon?

  We have clean asses.

• 37:59Speaker 06

  Diddy might like a little dirty ass.

• 38:01Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 06

  He got off on some weird shit, yo.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  Can I make a point, though? This is an interesting thing. This is where black people using the little washcloth.

• 38:11Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  In the shower hurts you.

• 38:14Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Cause it's always a clean ass to fucking.

• 38:16Mark Gagnon?

  Oh.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  You guys always got a clean ass to fucking. You knew when you went to a Diddy party. Diddy knew if he chose a black guy, he's like, yeah, that ass is clean.

• 38:24Speaker 06

  You don't think about the downsides of hygiene.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 06

  You don't think about it.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  With a, with a white guy, you know, I'm only washing to my abdomen. You don't know what's below. You don't know what's below, so if you're gonna try to take this ass, good luck.

• 38:36Speaker 05

  Which race has the cleanest ass, you think? Probably black, right?

• 38:38Speaker 03

  Oh, without a doubt, Asians. Cause I don't even know if they shit, really. I think it might be different.

• 38:43Speaker 06

  Also, America, y'all don't use the bidet like that. Al does, but it's not a general bidet thing.

• 38:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, y'all are a washcloth culture, so I can see you guys have a clean ass.

• 38:50Speaker 06

  But bidet culture, cleanest ass.

• 38:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, so probably Asian.

• 38:53Speaker 06

  Middle Eastern, cause they got the infrastructure for bidets, they all got bidets.

• 38:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, they wash all the time.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 39:01Mark Gagnon?

  They wash before they pray and shit.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:02Mark Gagnon?

  They don't wash with soap. They just rinse.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's better than you, you don't do shit.

• 39:08Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know if it's better.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  They wash their feet, they wash their hands, they wash everything.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  When it's raining outside, did I wash?

• 39:13Mark Gagnon?

  Smell your finger right now.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Oh, I guess I'm clean.

• 39:15Speaker 05

  I've counted that before.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  No, if you don't use soap, you didn't wash.

• 39:18Mark Gagnon?

  Smell your finger.

• 39:19Speaker 03

  Which one?

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Oh! God, I knew that.

• 39:25Speaker 06

  It was a different finger and it was still disgusting.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  No, that was what he was digging with.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  I was digging, I was digging with that one.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Oh, God, dude.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  Shit, makes me dry he's, bro.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  Stop being nasty.

• 39:35Speaker 05

  Yo, why is that nasty? This is gonna be in the dock, bro.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Why is that nasty? Why is that nasty? I keep my, my nails low, so I don't.

• 39:42Speaker 06

  Say again?

• 39:45Speaker 05

  He was invented an illness, bro.

• 39:47Speaker 06

  That was good. I think that was good.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Don't you dare.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  Don't you fucking dare.

• 39:52Mark Gagnon?

  The bar is so low for him.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  He just connected two things.

• 39:56Mark Gagnon?

  I was fired.

• 39:58Speaker 05

  I made a sentence.

• 39:59Mark Gagnon?

  I was fired.

• 40:00Speaker 05

  I made a whole sentence.

• 40:02Mark Gagnon?

  He's in. That was good. You liked it a lot.

• 40:05Speaker 05

  And then the Cassie shit was crazy. Cassie shit. I didn't realize all that.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  You didn't know that that happened with Cassie?

• 40:11Speaker 05

  No. Also, I thought, did he allegedly, this is gonna sound bad, was he involved in Kim Porter's?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Untimely demise?

• 40:18Speaker 06

  That's what a lot of people think.

• 40:20Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, they didn't cover it here, and yeah, I don't know about that.

• 40:23Speaker 06

  It was more balanced than I thought it would be with the Cassie stuff. Like, they say he groomed her and all that, but then they say like, what? They'll show like emails of Cassie sending things that could be interpreted as like, it was consensual or she was into it or whatever. And a lot of people say like, she tried to leave and got the shit kicked out of her once.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, the physical violence is disgusting.

• 40:44Mark Gagnon?

  Actually, show.

• 40:45Speaker 05

  The stud, the bull that they brought through.

• 40:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:48Speaker 05

  That was doing all the freakiness with Cassie. He was like, yeah, at one point.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  The Punisher?

• 40:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know if it was him. I think it was a different guy. He was like, yeah, after every session, they collected my nut.

• 41:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 05

  And they would collect it in a cup. And then he was like, this went on for months at a time. And so one day I was like, why are you guys collecting my nut? And he was like, oh, I just like to see her play with it.

• 41:11Speaker 06

  What's wrong with that? Diddy goes, what's wrong with that?

• 41:14Speaker 03

  He said that?

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 05

  And he was like, after that, they never asked again. But I was like, bro, they've been collecting your nut for four months?

• 41:21Speaker 03

  And he just makes her play with it on a random day?

• 41:23Speaker 05

  Like a yo-yo.

• 41:24Speaker 06

  You know how big a freak Diddy is? That's the one guy who got paid. Everybody else, he wouldn't pay. But he needed that get back, dude. I need you comeback. I need you to come back. I need your comeback.

• 41:36Speaker 05

  Really? Bro, but collecting in a cup is just hilarious to me. He's bringing this guy in, it's like, alright, but you got a nut in the receptacle, and then we're gonna use it for later. And he was like, saving it, they'd like put it in the fridge and mark it and put the date on it.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  No, they wouldn't.

• 41:50Speaker 05

  I mean, I presume.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  He could have helped you out with it. My life last year.

• 41:55Speaker 05

  I mean, you don't want to get it mixed up, you know what I mean? You probably got other samples in there.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  He's like, yeah, if we want to play with the right one.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, like, what do we do? Like, if we can find out that you have a genetic disposition to this, to this behavior.

• 42:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  What do we do with them?

• 42:11Speaker 06

  I don't think this is nature as much as nurture. I think this develops over time.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Oh, see.

• 42:15Speaker 06

  Like you said, the power thing.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  I think it's na- I think it's, you're born with it.

• 42:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it's nature. Who'd he learn this shit from?

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's.

• 42:21Speaker 06

  Well, I believe what he was saying earlier, which is like a power thing. Like, I'm just controlling this whole situation.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  But I think you're born with that.

• 42:27Speaker 06

  Like sociop- sociop- yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  You have a soci- you have a sociopathy and maybe there obviously are like nurturing elements.

• 42:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, no, this is, okay, I see what you're saying.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  To like push you towards that, but like, you have to on some level just not have any care for the people around you.

• 42:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  And just this insatiable desire to, you know, it's not even be loved or appreciated. He likes being Diddy, the figure.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  But it's more like the power that being loved and appreciated, uh, gives him.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Because if it was just be loved and appreciated, he would just be an artist.

• 42:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  They get loved and appreciated, end of story. Nah, he needs to tell motherfuckers what to do. He gets off on that shit.

• 43:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  That infamous phone call.

• 43:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think that was.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  I'm a savage!

• 43:11Speaker 05

  That was built up, I think. After re-watching it, it was like, yeah, they, I don't even think there was anyone on the phone.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  No, you know how I know there was? Because he slams it, he screams, "I'm a savage," whatever, and he notices the phone is off. Of the thing, and he corrects it. He's like, "Uh-oh, I hope they didn't hear that." Like, there's a moment where he's a little concerned.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Talk soon.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  But yeah, I don't know. It's like, this just feels like a little performative to me, but I don't know.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  But it was, because this was being shot for making of the band, so he probably was turning it up a little bit.

• 43:42Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. And, but also, I think this is when he was like using drugs. He started using drugs heavily in like, what, 2011 or seven or something like that?

• 43:48Mark Gagnon?

  I see. I think he was always using drugs, to be honest with you.

• 43:51Speaker 06

  His boy said he wouldn't even drink before, and then at some point, he just went all the way with it.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Hmm, maybe. I have a hard time believing that a guy that aspires to be a gangster. Does not consume alcohol or marijuana. I have a hard time.

• 44:08Mark Gagnon?

  Really?

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:09Mark Gagnon?

  I think the opposite.

• 44:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 44:11Mark Gagnon?

  He's a control freak. He loves control.

• 44:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:13Mark Gagnon?

  And alcohol and drugs take you out of control.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 44:16Mark Gagnon?

  So he's like constantly in control until he's realizing how fun Molly is and he's like, I'll try a little bit. And then gets on a wave. I can see that.

• 44:24Speaker 06

  That was like, he would work for like 14 days straight and his whole thing on all his IG lives that they're playing is how hard he works, how nonstop he goes, I'm doing XYZ. You're doing some kind of uppers to keep that pace up.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 06

  And ride that wave, if you would call it.

• 44:35Mark Gagnon?

  And like, and not to compare them, the two of them, but it's like, Trump likes, also likes to be like, in control. And he's a no alcohol, no drug guy also.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  That's very interesting.

• 44:46Mark Gagnon?

  And he also doesn't pay people when he.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Maybe we gotta worry about these sober motherfuckers.

• 44:54Mark Gagnon?

  Oh yeah, if somebody's sober, I don't trust you.

• 44:56Speaker 06

  I do shrooms.

• 44:59Mark Gagnon?

  Something, something, like something, something, yeah. If you sober sober, I don't trust you.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Oh man.

• 45:07Mark Gagnon?

  You gotta drink or something, I don't know.

• 45:08Speaker 06

  Do you look at everybody who's with Diddy in a video, like some rapper that's famous, I'm not even gonna name names, but they're next to Diddy and it's like, you gotta know something.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  So I thought about this because like, you know, there's one way of looking at this and going, why are all the people that are in this documentary that they're doing 30 years later? Why are you guys speaking up now? Where were you for the last 30 years?

• 45:32Speaker 03

  I don't think we can make these people heroes in the documentary. Obviously, the women that like were sexually abused, assaulted, like, you know, they're terrified, they're trying to speak up and nobody wants to take their case. Yeah, it's very different. But like, none of these people speaking up now are heroes, but they did. They did the right thing in that like, if the things that they're saying are true, even if it's 30 years later, saying what happened is the right thing to do. It doesn't make you a hero, but it's better than not saying it at all.

• 46:01Speaker 06

  Also, he.

• 46:02Mark Gagnon?

  It's still brave.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  And it's still brave because there's motherfuckers that don't want to see Diddy go down.

• 46:05Speaker 06

  He also destroys you. He takes everything. He takes your credibility. You can't get a job. He's the kind of guy who fucking ruins you.

• 46:11Mark Gagnon?

  Also, he allegedly killed.

• 46:13Speaker 05

  People.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 05

  So it's like, I'm in this industry.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  So yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 05

  He knows where I live. I'm not gonna say shit.

• 46:17Speaker 06

  He's getting away with all this stuff. So it is, I completely understand why you're not saying anything. Male, female, whatever, doesn't matter. I completely get why you're not saying anything. I'm actually asking, famous rappers who are with Diddy and there's, we've, everybody, I, I think I heard whispers. We all see some crazy shit and it's like, oh, you're still next to him. Do I? Do I look at you? What's the empathetic way of looking at that guy? Cause there's a part of me that's judgmental, but it's easy to judge from here, from the couch. But the part of me that's judgmental is like, you had to know something. You're right there.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  So what I would ask you is, how bad is Diddy compared to the dudes that they grew up with that might be involved in criminal shit?

• 46:55Speaker 06

  I would think worse. Cause the

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 46:58Speaker 06

  The lines he's pushing are like, yo, this is crazy.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Maybe depending on how you grew up, but like if you grew up in the hood and like, you know, you're affiliated with the gang and like, you know,

• 47:08Speaker 05

  Diddy's like, I'm gonna blow some guy's car and you go, well, yeah, that tracks. He's a gangster. And I grew up around gangsters and they would

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Kill people and, you know, sell drugs and shoot at the ops.

• 47:17Mark Gagnon?

  I don't think Diddy went around saying, hey, I just beat up Cassie and did this and did that.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:22Mark Gagnon?

  It's all rumor shit. Like we all heard the rumors about the shit, but just being out at a fucking brunch party with Diddy doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna see all the shit that he's up to.

• 47:31Speaker 06

  Maybe you're right. I just, I think, well, from my understanding, some of the shit was public. He was like, he hit his first wife. Just fucking punch her in the face in public or whatever, out on the street. And maybe you're right that these guys are seeing that shit.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Like he was indicted for it. That's a buddy of him who was with him, who's talking on the docks, saying that that thing happened.

• 47:48Speaker 06

  And I, I, look, I'm not convinced in my position, but I'm gonna push back. Uh, so the Shine thing, there's like so many things that you're like, yo, this guy, there's some weird shit going on with this guy.

• 47:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but with Shine, there was enough like, uh,

• 48:02Speaker 05

  Plausible deniability.

• 48:03Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, plausible deniability where it's like, hey, maybe it could have been Shine. They both had their guns out. They both shot the guns. So it's like, we really don't know who really shot him.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  That's, that's the other thing is, this is, it's very possible Shine did do it.

• 48:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  So, but, but again, the point is that like, at this time in hip hop, now it's different. It's all theater kids. But at this point in time in hip hop, Like if the dudes rapping weren't real, their crew was real.

• 48:27Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  And the money backing a lot of these hip hop labels was drug money. So it's like, who, if you, if you were to get signed to someone in New York, how are you not going to be affiliated? Name the label that's not affiliated. Like just name it.

• 48:43Mark Gagnon?

  I'm telling you.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  You know, like.

• 48:44Mark Gagnon?

  It went back and forth.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Jay got his.

• 48:46Mark Gagnon?

  Money in the.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Biggs, what is it? Biggs put the money up for, for rock, right? And that's drug money. So you're connected with drug money and nefarious actors, no matter how you do it. Maybe Def Jam towards the end had gotten really cleaned up.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  But like, what was, uh, Murder Inc? You know, they had tough guys there like.

• 49:06Mark Gagnon?

  Even with Def Jam, they were just the label that's signed, but they know all the artists was up to fuck shit.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Hell, yeah.

• 49:12Mark Gagnon?

  They were aware of shit.

• 49:13Speaker 06

  That's fair. I just want to have the conversation because it does, it didn't cross my mind. I didn't have a hard position, but I was like, huh.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  I just think when you see foul shit with regularity, you become numb to it. You know, and in retrospect, you look back and you're like, oh my God, that's a fucking evil ass dude.

• 49:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  But also like, just talking to 50 from, you know, what life was like in New York between the gangs at that time. Like, he told me like, some of these guys are like real life schizophrenic serial killers. Like he would go meet with some of these dudes in jail because you know, he does like life rights stuff for all these shows. And they would say shit like, yo, man, I'm out in 20 days. And he'd be like, what? She's like, yeah, man, I can't wait, man. I'm out in 20 days. And 50 would be like, is he really getting out in 20 days? Like this guy's spending the rest of his life here.

• 49:58Mark Gagnon?

  Oh shit.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  And he'd be like, oh, these guys are completely crazy.

• 50:01Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. And either they lost it before or all the shit they went through made them lose it.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 06

  Yeah. Or they're already.

• 50:07Mark Gagnon?

  But like, there's actually like the trauma, I don't think goes away. Like you kill people in the streets, like that affects your brain.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  And every day you're thinking that retaliation is coming.

• 50:16Mark Gagnon?

  You're paranoid everywhere.

• 50:17Speaker 06

  And to your point, that girl Capricorn Clark was like, I grew up with a mom that was, I forget how she was like Diddy, but she was a lot like Diddy, so I just knew how to navigate that and I knew how to deal with that. So that's why I could be his assistant so well. So a lot of these guys probably like, yeah, I know how to deal with this trauma.

• 50:31Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly. And also let's take fabulous, for example, like Fab would get money from doing ads for Serac. But Diddy would confront him and be like, yo, why we never party? Like, what's up with you, homie? It's like, so he was keeping his distance, but he also knew how to play the games. Like, hey, I'm gonna get my check over here. So it's like, I think there was a lot of people navigating like that.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  But what did he eventually actually go to prison for? Do you remember what the actual charges were?

• 50:56Speaker 06

  Violations of the Mann Act, they said this, this is the thing that's at the beginning and the end of every episode. Violations of the Mann Act and I think prostitution.

• 51:02Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I think that is the Mann Act.

• 51:04Speaker 06

  Hey man, in the last episode, where was that guy from, that juror? Cause if he's Indian, that's a bad fucking look for us.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  Wait, what happened?

• 51:12Speaker 06

  He's like, they're asking the juror, two jurors are willing to come forward and one of them has an accent. I can't tell, it might be Indian, but he's like, yeah, I don't know. It just seemed like it was the, him and Cassie, it was just a hot and cold relationship. You know what I mean? They just loved each other. You know, you're seeing these text messages, I don't know, she sells shirts, not consensual, but then, you know, he's beating her up. But then she said she loves him.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Sometimes the internet has a hard time understanding unconventional relationships. Okay, and they jump to conclusions about certain things. Okay, Diddy, Cassie, other people, maybe on his podcast, you don't know anything.

• 51:51Speaker 05

  Jury selection must have been fire.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Sorry, sorry, sorry, exactly, you're Cassie.

• 51:57Speaker 05

  You are 100% Cassie.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  I will say the hotel room you're getting dragged through is much more expensive than a fucking Motel 6.

• 52:07Speaker 06

  So that was crazy, you got her at an intercontinental?

• 52:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 06

  Come on dude.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  You gotta take her to a place where guys are also beating their wives, so it doesn't seem that.

• 52:15Speaker 05

  So it blends in with the sound.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 52:17Mark Gagnon?

  Also, I heard he would pay for the floor he's on, above him and below him.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  You can't rent out the three floors of the Four Seasons, but you can do that, you know?

• 52:27Speaker 05

  Damn.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 06

  Man, when I'm watching that video, every time, I'm like, take the stairs dude, what are you doing taking the elevator?

• 52:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like a horror movie.

• 52:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 05

  Leave the shoes, you don't need your shoes, run.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 05

  And then he's just lurking in the towel. Yeah, shit is crazy.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  Let's get back to the show.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  And he's out in a few months.

• 52:47Speaker 06

  Dude, I thought about that, he served like a year.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  So that's the power of the documentary, right? Because what Diddy wants, and he says it in the beginning of it, he's talking about losing the court of public opinion.

• 52:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  And he says some stuff like, you know, we gotta, you know, get some propaganda going or whatever. And what he's saying is actually not.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  It's not wrong.

• 53:07Speaker 06

  Oh, he's smart.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  He's going, hey, you guys are, to his lawyers, you guys are going to CNN talking shit about me. But TikTok and social media is where the conversation is about me and we lost that.

• 53:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  As he should lose that.

• 53:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Right? But, and he's telling him, he's like, you guys gotta do something about this. And I think that the beginning is interpreted like he's saying, hey, we gotta lie and trick and do these, which he probably is saying 100%. But I think at that point in the case, he thought he's getting off.

• 53:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  And all of us thought he was doing 40 years. Think about when this case first started, we thought he was locked up.

• 53:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  20, 40 years. The guy gets 50 months.

• 53:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  He's gonna be out of jail in two and a half years.

• 53:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Like, he'll be on the streets soon. He could watch this doc.

• 53:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  While it's still trending. Think about that, right?

• 53:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:55Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Like.

• 53:56Mark Gagnon?

  That's why allegedly, allegedly.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Allegedly. But like, but think about this. So I think what he's, what he's doing is going, I still wanna be Diddy. And I can't be Diddy if the perception of me.

• 54:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Is a certain way. The doc is way more damaging than jail.

• 54:12Mark Gagnon?

  Yep. Bingo.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Jail, I honestly think, I know it sounds crazy, but if it was just the jail, there are people that would go, ah, Cassie was into it. And yes, you should never put your hands on a woman, but she was down to do these parties and that kinda stuff like that. This is bullshit and he might have a way to come back.

• 54:29Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  I don't know if anybody can recover from this.

• 54:33Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  He gotta go to Bali with Russell Simmons.

• 54:35Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  He gotta find a foreign country that he could just meditate at.

• 54:40Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Cause I don't know, you can't walk the streets of New York anymore after this.

• 54:44Speaker 06

  You know what's crazy? I think he can flip it. I think he's, cause they, and they bring this up too in the fourth episode. By the end of the trial, PR was largely on Diddy's side. They got.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  Really?

• 54:55Speaker 06

  You know, do you remember all this stuff like?

• 54:57Mark Gagnon?

  Paying a lot of PR. He was paying people like $25 just to wear free Diddy shirts outside the trial.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  I saw them.

• 55:02Mark Gagnon?

  Look like.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  I drove by, I saw them.

• 55:04Mark Gagnon?

  Like, that's crazy.

• 55:05Speaker 06

  But he's still a billionaire. He's not broke.

• 55:08Mark Gagnon?

  Hmm. We don't, this probably, this is hurt.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  These, these trials cost so much money. And also when you're in jail, your money goes away.

• 55:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  And like.

• 55:17Mark Gagnon?

  And bills don't stop. But all his, uh, Serac got taken from him.

• 55:22Speaker 03

  But, but he won that lawsuit, remember? He won the, uh.

• 55:25Mark Gagnon?

  They didn't say how much they settled for.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  I thought it was like in the bees. I thought it was crazy.

• 55:28Mark Gagnon?

  I don't think it was that crazy.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  I would look, it's what, Diageo or something like that? Diageo, yeah.

• 55:34Mark Gagnon?

  I don't think it was that crazy, because imagine, Diageo has heavy pockets. They could be like, yo, let's just go to trial. But I thought you don't have it. You can't last.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  I would look that up, but I, and this could be like internet bullshit, but there was like a clause in the contract, like if he, if he was criminally indicted for anything, that could waive whatever, I don't know. Or convicted, not indicted, yeah.

• 55:57Mark Gagnon?

  Crazy thing about this doc and about all docs is like the, it's all in the edit, because imagine this.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:04Mark Gagnon?

  They use footage that he was gonna use to make himself look good. They use the same fucking footage to make him look like a fucking savage.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:12Mark Gagnon?

  And I'm like, it's all in the fucking edit. And what can you really believe when it comes to the docs at the same time?

• 56:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've learned this.

• 56:22Speaker 06

  It's all in the edit.

• 56:24Speaker 05

  Docs are terrifying.

• 56:26Speaker 06

  This is why they still win the PR thing. And again, maybe this Netflix thing changes everything. But even as this trial is going on, he's getting so much fucking love in the streets. Stopped over and over.

• 56:37Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, you're talking about in the doc?

• 56:38Speaker 06

  Like in the public, when he's like riding his bike, not the streets like, I don't know, Harley.

• 56:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but this is before.

• 56:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, this was earlier.

• 56:45Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, this was before he was guilty, because like it was just the Cassie tape. We didn't know anything from trial yet.

• 56:54Speaker 06

  Say that sentence again.

• 56:55Mark Gagnon?

  I understand, but if you didn't see the Cassie tape, you just still loved Diddy.

• 56:59Speaker 06

  Who didn't see?

• 56:59Mark Gagnon?

  There are some people that didn't. Apparently 12 jurors.

• 57:02Speaker 05

  Also, Diddy is so famous.

• 57:04Speaker 06

  No, this is what they did, though. Smart. It's not about the, he can't, he's not on trial for abuse. Sure, he abused her, but that's what they did.

• 57:10Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that was one of the questions. Have you seen that tape?

• 57:14Speaker 06

  No, the girl, the juror says, the tape was damning. The tape let me know he wasn't a good guy. But that's not what he was on trial for.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  You can't use it. It's inadmissible evidence?

• 57:24Speaker 06

  She said, I saw it, and I know what kind of guy he is from that, but that's not what he's on trial for.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  No, so you can't use it to go.

• 57:30Speaker 05

  And he's so famous that I just think in general, people melt in the face of that type of fame.

• 57:35Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 57:35Speaker 05

  Like, I feel like Diddy could walk around on the streets, and there'd be a handful of people that'd be like, yo, can I grab a pic?

• 57:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  Like, just, just because you're around a famous person, you're like, immediately you forget everything. You're like, I'm, I'm in front of Pete Diddy, this is crazy. And I think people would go up to him and try to say something.

• 57:49Mark Gagnon?

  All he was guilty for is some orgies, like.

• 57:54Speaker 06

  Prostitution and the man.

• 57:55Mark Gagnon?

  People go and look at that and be like, it's not that bad.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  This is, this is just character assassination to a T. Documentaries should be, are more dangerous than weapons.

• 58:07Speaker 05

  I remember you said that.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  I did say that, like, that shit is dangerous, bro. That is like, phew.

• 58:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think I'd rather my enemy have a gun than a documentary. Right? Cause like, you can't, it's hard to shoot someone in public.

• 58:22Speaker 06

  You can make me think whatever you want me to think.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  But also, if you shoot me, you go to jail. If you make a documentary about me, you make money. You get an award. What?

• 58:33Mark Gagnon?

  Fifty is the.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  Imagine someone gave you a Golden Globe for shooting you in the head.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  That's what documentaries are. This guy's life is done. How diabolical is 50 Cent? Enters a field of entertainment that he has no expertise in at all, becomes a phenomenal storyteller, curator of worlds, incredibly successful, maybe all just to build up the cachet, to make a documentary about one of his arch nemesis, and destroy his life while profiting off of it.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  Fifty is patient.

• 59:12Speaker 06

  God's work, yo. God's work on this one.

• 59:15Speaker 05

  Fifty is patient, bro.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, just don't cross, yo, if I'm Jay-Z, I'm shaking in my motherfucking galoshes or whatever. I know you don't want to hear this, but if I am Jay-Z, I am terrified.

• 59:27Speaker 06

  Let me tell you the difference between Jay-Z and 50. The elevator footage is very different with Jay-Z. Jay-Z got elevator footage, is the polar opposite of Diddy's elevator footage.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  How much you think he paid Beyonce's sister to hit him and him not hit her back?

• 59:42Speaker 03

  That might have been the greatest move in the history of the world. Now we see this poised, composed man that would never put his hands on a woman, ever. That was genius. If that was PR, that's genius.

• 59:52Mark Gagnon?

  That wasn't PR.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  He gets some licks off, they know that the cheating side is coming out.

• 59:56Speaker 06

  Did he pay like 10 million or whatever to get that tape? If I was Jay-Z, I'd be like, I paid you 10 million to leak that to you.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Leak it, send it to Harvey.

• 1:00:04Speaker 05

  It is funny seeing all the like daytime TV people, the thing that they took an issue with in the doc. That's so funny. Like I've seen like three clips already and they're like, "Yeah, I watched this Diddy documentary and he saw a guy, took on his jacket and then tried to get hand sanitizer. This guy's a demon." I was like, "That's the part that you thought was bad?"

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  Nah, Sean may brought that up too. Like he was in Harlem, he's shaking hands and hugging people and he gets in the car and he goes, "Ugh, I gotta take a shower. I gotta take a shower in boiling water." And I think the feeling is, is like, this is a community you really say you're a part of.

• 1:00:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  And you don't even want to touch them. And it's like-

• 1:00:38Speaker 06

  I thought that part was unfair editing. Cause he might have just done that all the time. And he might have been like, "Man, I don't, these people are hugging me. I don't know you." He might just do that with everybody, but they only did, said that after he was in Harlem. And then the whole point was, you use the black community. And that could be true. But I didn't think the edit, that was a very strategically timed-

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Diddy been at Burning Man every single year. Ain't no fucking showers and every time you meet someone, you gotta hug them.

• 1:01:02Mark Gagnon?

  Actually, he would always have the most extravagant camp that probably had showers in it.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, but you're hugging every single person that you meet. That's customary.

• 1:01:10Speaker 06

  Then he probably showers after.

• 1:01:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but he wasn't fucking them. That's a thing.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  He wasn't fucking the people he met in Harlem.

• 1:01:15Mark Gagnon?

  No, that's what I mean. Like, you know, he's fucking out in-

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  So you gonna save cum but you can't hug an auntie in Harlem? This guy got some weird hypochondria, man. I don't know what- Diddy's different, man. Diddy's different. Anyway.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  Well, he's gonna be on the streets in two and a half years. He'll be at Burning Man soon.

• 1:01:33Speaker 06

  Son, if he's good behavior, you might be out in a year, dude.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  What's the first podcast appearance for Diddy? Who's bringing him on?

• 1:01:40Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Who's bringing him on?

• 1:01:43Speaker 05

  I mean, doesn't he have his own podcast?

• 1:01:44Mark Gagnon?

  Cause you want him here?

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  I'm not. Hey, I'm not saying that. I'm just asking you, who's gonna bring him on?

• 1:01:48Speaker 06

  Call her Diddy.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Who do you think brings him on? That's a good question.

• 1:01:54Speaker 05

  I think he does his own thing. I think he does, cause what is revolt? Like, isn't that his-

• 1:01:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, but does he, he's boxed out of that.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  From it or what?

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Probably had to step down. But still, like, there's, there's an interview out there someone's gonna want.

• 1:02:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's gonna do his own thing.

• 1:02:07Mark Gagnon?

  He got like, people that, uh, they don't care what people think of them, like Ak I can see sitting down with Diddy.

• 1:02:16Speaker 06

  Ak could actually do a great job. Ak could actually do a phenomenal job.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  And also just Ak interviewing him about the gay shit would just be. You cannot miss.

• 1:02:25Speaker 06

  It would be ripping.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  That stream would have 100 million views just and we'd be just waiting. We'd be getting edged right until he gets to the gay talk. And the whole feed is just gonna be like, yo, ask him about buttfucking. Ask him about buttfucking. And just have Ak say the sentence.

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  No, I think Diddy's gonna lean in. He's gonna pull like Kevin Spacey vibes. You know when Kevin Spacey does the, uh, plays the character from House of Cards?

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  Frank, uh.

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  What was his name? Frank something?

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Underwood.

• 1:02:53Speaker 06

  Underwood.

• 1:02:54Speaker 05

  And just does like the most ominous video you've ever seen?

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was crazy.

• 1:02:59Speaker 05

  This is the greatest toy.

• 1:03:00Mark Gagnon?

  This is awesome.

• 1:03:02Speaker 06

  No, this is so cool.

• 1:03:06Mark Gagnon?

  This is a modern Marvel.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  This is what you get when you join ICE.

• 1:03:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, shout out to New York Police.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  What, what happened?

• 1:03:17Mark Gagnon?

  They arrested ICE.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  This is how you get one.

• 1:03:20Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Going back, going back, Akash.

• 1:03:25Speaker 06

  No, he reversed that H1 VC shit. He reversed that H1 VC shit.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, we gonna keep him?

• 1:03:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Shout out to Indians, man. Y'all made it.

• 1:03:31Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yo, can I take a shit? Uh, can I take a shit?

• 1:03:37Speaker 06

  I'm about to shit my pants, dude. Can we take a break? Cause I'm about to shit my pants.

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  All right, Akash taking a little dump skis. All right, so what are his options, right? When he comes out, he could convert to Islam.

• 1:03:48Mark Gagnon?

  That's one.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  That seems to be what a lot of people who get canceled have been doing recently. Convert to Islam. So he can convert to Islam. He could ask, he could convert to MAGA and ask for the pardon from Trump. I don't know if Trump pardons him, though.

• 1:04:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Mark Gagnon?

  They used to be boys, though.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  Did they?

• 1:04:05Mark Gagnon?

  I'm pretty sure, like, back in the day.

• 1:04:09Speaker 05

  On some TV shit?

• 1:04:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Interesting. All right, so then what are the Kelsey? Give us the Kelsey odds. For a Trump pardon.

• 1:04:18Speaker 05

  All right, Trump pardon himself is pretty high. It's pretty high.

• 1:04:23Mark Gagnon?

  Oh shit.

• 1:04:24Speaker 05

  Sam Bankman Fried, Barron, what did Barron do?

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Nah, I need the combs. 19%, but it's going down since the documentary.

• 1:04:32Mark Gagnon?

  Oof.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  Wow. So that's another thing, like if the doc makes him so radioactive, he can't get a pardon because it looks so bad on the person that's in power.

• 1:04:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:04:44Speaker 05

  And he's only got one crazy pardon to go. You know what I mean? It's either Diddy or Ghislaine.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Speaker 05

  You gotta, you gotta go Ghislaine on that one.

• 1:04:51Mark Gagnon?

  You really think he only has one pardon to go?

• 1:04:54Speaker 05

  I mean, in terms of crazy PR.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  Where's the political capital in giving a Diddy pardon? Like, I think that should be zero, guys.

• 1:05:00Mark Gagnon?

  He's been pardoning motherfuckers he don't even know who they are. They asked him about that Asian dude, the crypto guy. He's like, I don't know who that is.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Oh, the Binance dude.

• 1:05:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Like, that's crazy.

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  That is a little wild.

• 1:05:14Mark Gagnon?

  That is wild.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  That's a little wild. You can't pardon someone you don't know who they are.

• 1:05:19Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Unless you're Biden.

• 1:05:21Mark Gagnon?

  Why did he pardon Santos?

• 1:05:23Speaker 05

  The...

• 1:05:24Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, Santos is a good time.

• 1:05:26Speaker 05

  Cause he just let him out.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  Santos was a good time.

• 1:05:29Mark Gagnon?

  He just seems like, yo.

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  That's gotta, there's gotta be like, oh, he's gonna snitch. Like, I, I, this is what I imagine the pardons are. It's either like a favor from someone close to you before you get out of there. Somebody who has been loyal to you and got hemmed up in some shit and you're like, I need to protect him. You know, or there is political capital in the pardoning. You know, January 6 people, there's political capital in pardoning all them. Right? The rouse up the base, base is excited.

• 1:05:57Mark Gagnon?

  And I think some people just straight paying for it. I think there's a price for it and...

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  But what's the price, though?

• 1:06:03Speaker 05

  Well, allegedly, I heard this with the Binance guy.

• 1:06:05Mark Gagnon?

  Two mil, right?

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, what's the Binance one?

• 1:06:06Speaker 05

  Like, allegedly, it was like, he got pardoned and then he has all these funds that he's able to like reinsert back into Trump's projects.

• 1:06:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 05

  Like, his like crypto projects. Allegedly, I don't know if this is the case. This is what I've heard.

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  I mean, that checks out. So then you're paying for it, like Al saying.

• 1:06:21Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. It's like a little, you know, you scratched my back type.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  I scratched yours. Did this run out of battery?

• 1:06:26Speaker 05

  Probably. Thank God.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know, man. The pardon shit is crazy, right? Shouldn't we get rid of that? Why does the president just get to say you're allowed to do illegal shit? Right? Like, why? That's weird, the pardon thing. What's the justification for it? It's one of the checks and balances. He can push back against like the judicial. So if the judicial's going after someone, that he can then pardon them. But that doesn't seem like a balance.

• 1:06:54Speaker 05

  Well, the idea is like, oh, the judicial-

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  That seems like total power.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  The judicial's going after people unfairly, and then you have the president's able to be like, no, no, you guys are overstepping.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  But how can they go after people unfairly if it's decided by a jury of their peers?

• 1:07:06Speaker 05

  I guess the idea is like you're levying all these charges that are frivolous, and then you're able to get them on something.

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  But ultimately, the jury of your peers is the check against the judicial system. So if you think the judicial system is doing something abusive, then a jury of your peers sets in and goes, no, that's not the case. I just think it's like a weird amount of power to bestow upon a president. I would do away with pardons. The founders intentionally designed it as a kind of emergency break on the justice system. So just in case the justice system got out of whack. Well, also, they can only forgive federal crimes. So it's against the federal judicial system. Like, state crimes, you can't. I think the governor can let you out for state crimes of your state. Interesting. And then like, what would a federal crime be? Is that based on jurisdiction, or is that based on the type of crime?

• 1:07:54Speaker 05

  I think jurisdiction.

• 1:07:55Speaker 03

  Because if like, you go across state lines, it becomes federal.

• 1:07:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  Like Luigi is up for state crime and federal.

• 1:08:03Mark Gagnon?

  See, but then there's times where pardoning's good, like the Central Park Five. That was a good pardon.

• 1:08:10Speaker 03

  Sorry, guys. A federal crime is any act that violates a law passed by the US Congress, typically involving national interests, crossing state lines, occurring on federal property, or affecting federal agencies, and is prosecuted by the federal government and federal court, unlike state crimes handed- handled locally. Common examples include terrorism, mail fraud, kidnapping, cross state lines, drug trafficking, counterfeiting, tax evasion, and cyber crimes.

• 1:08:34Speaker 05

  So stuff you need to get pardoned for, little shit, you know what I mean? You do a little, you do a little drug trafficking, some tax evasion, some kidnapping, and you need someone to step in and cover you, you know?

• 1:08:43Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Let's be honest, this shit is tax evasion. Like, is this shit, that's what it is, right?

• 1:08:49Speaker 05

  I mean, now, probably.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  This is like, a white, it's white collar shit, so you could look after your homies before you get out of office. Cause, what terrorists is getting, oh, I guess January 6th.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Kidnapping across state lines, no one's pardoning you for that. Drug trafficking, maybe. Like, I could see pardoning someone if you were drug trafficking, but like, the CIA was the one that was importing the drugs from like, some Central American.

• 1:09:17Speaker 05

  What if you're like a whistleblower? And you come out and you're like, hey, this company's doing some terrible shit, or like, the CIA is doing some fucked up, they put you in jail? And then, two years go by and we go like, actually, he doesn't need life in prison.

• 1:09:27Speaker 03

  They put you in jail for treason.

• 1:09:29Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  But in reality, you did the right thing, it was patriotic.

• 1:09:32Speaker 05

  Yeah. And then they bail you out.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  God, okay, alright.

• 1:09:36Mark Gagnon?

  And I think that's how they used to use it, and now they're just abusing the shit.

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  But, they gotta let us vote, I think we gotta put it up to a vote. We do like, America's Got Talent style, you bring five of them out, and be like, alright, what did you do, why should you be out? And then we decide, it's, it's call in, Ryan Seacrest hosting.

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  America's got pardons.

• 1:09:51Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  I like that.

• 1:09:53Speaker 05

  And you bail people out, and then we get to choose, be like, alright, this guy can come out.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is late-stage capitalism, guys. It might be.

• 1:09:59Speaker 05

  We run ads on it, it'll be great.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  It might be a rap.

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  And then we just let people out. And then see what they're gonna do when they get out. What's gonna be your first order of business? You know?

• 1:10:08Speaker 03

  Alright, that's all the Diddy shit, man, that's, that's enough Diddy. Enough Diddy. Do not mess with 50. Do not make him a mortal enemy of yours, that is a horrible decision. Also, don't beat and abuse and fuck guys against their will, or women against their will. That ends up biting you in the long run.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  But yeah, listen, we got a lot to talk about on Patreon, we gotta talk about Matt Barnes getting, sending $60,000 to a AI chick on Instagram.

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  Allegedly.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Give him, give him his money back, he should donate that to charity. Matt Zuckerberg should give him his money back. And then Matt donates that to charity.

• 1:10:52Speaker 06

  That'd be sick.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, for online awareness. That's a good thing to do. I think that's a good thing to do that we could all support. And it's a great charitable donation. You were already throwing it to charity. You might as well continue that. Okay?

• 1:11:05Speaker 06

  That was her name.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, but yeah, we got a lot to talk about. Patreon, man. Quentin Tarantino coming on. Tell us more actors he hates.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  So we gotta talk. Poor Paul Dano, just waking up that morning, going on the internet.

• 1:11:19Speaker 06

  Yo, what was that?

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  Great actor.

• 1:11:21Speaker 06

  What'd you say fuck me for?

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Exactly. What, what movie did you turn down of Tarantino?

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  Had to be.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  It had, that shit.

• 1:11:28Speaker 06

  Cause Paul Dano's a beast, dude. There will be blood. He's unbelievable.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Good actor, good actor.

• 1:11:34Speaker 06

  He was good as the Riddler.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna get through it. And we gotta talk about Netflix.

• 1:11:38Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:39Speaker 03

  Shut down movie theaters forever. And now Paramount getting in. Anyway, patreon.com, join us, okay? Patreon.com slash flagrant. We love y'all, we appreciate y'all, peace.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

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• 1:12:19Speaker 01

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• 1:12:48Speaker 03

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