Best of Question Time: Is 15% of my salary going in a pension enough? I'm finally debt free, what now? What should we call you?

This is a special best-of episode of our Question Time podcast, where Matt has picked his favourite questions you’ve asked Martin, including: I’m 23 and saving 15% of my salary into my pension, is that enough? My 5-year-old TV’s faulty, can I get a refund? We’ve also hear from Robert, who’s finally debt free after making poor financial decisions when he was younger - and wants to know what he should do now. Then we hear from Carly, who, after hearing Robert’s story on the podcast, decided to seek help with her debt. Plus, how we (or you) decided what we should call you if you come on the podcast. If you want to ask Martin a question, you now can! His Question Time podcast lets you ask Martin absolutely anything and everything (within reason!). So, if you’ve always wanted to know his favourite paper size, what prescription he has in his glasses, or have a very complicated question about your finances, email it to [email protected] mailto:[email protected].

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:44Martin Lewis?

  What they've done is absolutely within the sad fart rules.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  Every day that passes is a day that you could be closer to your debt free day.

• 1:50Martin Lewis?

  It is not a hard and fast rule. Many people do not do it.

• 1:54Speaker 05

  I listened to the podcast and cried with relief that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

• 1:59Martin Lewis?

  I think you're inspirational and I think you will help a lot of people by making this call. I hope I've helped you a little bit. Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is a special best of question time episode where the curator of questions himself, Professor Sir Matthew Burnham Esquire, has chosen his favourite questions that you are Esquires, extremely savvy questioners, have asked me on absolutely anything and everything, open brackets within reason, closed brackets. In this best of question time episode, you've asked me, I'm 23 and saving 15% of my salary into my pension, is that enough? My five-year-old TV is faulty, can I get a refund?

• 2:40Martin Lewis?

  We also hear from Robert, who's finally debt free after making poor financial decisions when he was younger and wants to know what he should do now. I remember that and I love that one. Then we hear from Carly, who after hearing Robert's story on the podcast, decided to seek help with her debt. I love that one too. Plus, how we, or you, decided what we should call you when you come on the podcast. Play the theme tune.

• 3:16Speaker 05

  Isaac's emailed this one in to [email protected]. He just says, Dear Martin, which I don't know if I'm happy with or not.

• 3:23Martin Lewis?

  I like it.

• 3:24Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 3:25Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 05

  Is it because I've been off for so long?

• 3:26Martin Lewis?

  You've been off for six weeks. Don't, you're not going to get the Dear Martin and Matts when you decide to go gallivanting around.

• 3:31Speaker 05

  I know. Anyway, he says, I've got a question about pension savings. I'm aware of the general rule of thumb that to maintain a similar standard of living in retirement, you should contribute roughly half your age as a percentage of your salary into your pension from when you start working.

• 3:45Martin Lewis?

  Well, it's brilliant. That is my rough rule of thumb. Yeah, you take your age. So if you start your pension at 30, half it, 15% of your total income of your salary should be going into a pension to give you a decent income at retirement. It is not a hard and fast rule. Many people do not do it, but it is a nice intuitive rule that helps and also makes the point very strongly. Start at 20, it's 10%. Start at 30, it's 15%. Start at 40, it's 20%. The earlier you start, the better. Do carry on.

• 4:17Speaker 05

  He goes, I'm currently 23 and I've just started my first job after university. I'm contributing 9% of my salary into my pension and my employer is also contributing 6%. So in total, 15% is going in. Is that good?

• 4:29Martin Lewis?

  Very good. Brilliant. Well done you.

• 4:32Speaker 05

  He says, what I'm not sure about is whether the half your age figure, so about 11 and a half percent for me, refers to my personal contribution only or the total, including employer contributions. I'm trying to understand whether I should be increasing my own contributions. He then says, love the podcast. It's saved me plenty of money since I've started saving.

• 4:51Martin Lewis?

  Well, let me, well, wonderful Isaac, and it's so brilliant that you've listened and you've been thinking about your pension at such a young age. It's really important because the earlier you start putting money in the pension, the reason it's beneficial is you'll have it in an investment, but you effectively have that investment can compound over so many years. And I'm making this number up now. I used to have an actual figure, but I'm going to sort of make it up, so it's a conceptual, not a numerical idea. But for every pound you put in, in your early twenties, you're going to have to put in 30 quid in your fifties to get the same result. So it's so worthwhile doing it early when you've got disposable income, maybe you're living at home, I don't know. Now, the general rule of thumb is about the total going in, so it includes your employer contribution. So you are over the rule of thumb.

• 5:36Martin Lewis?

  That is not me saying not to. It's brilliant to get a head start, especially at this age. If you do not need that money, don't lower your contributions. And why I find our pension rules so frustrating, I am a supporter of pension auto enrolment. Just to say here, we're talking private pensions here. Workplace pensions are a private pension. Generally, you're building up the money purchase pensions or defined contributions, where you're building up a pot of money, you're putting money in, it's being invested and you'll have that when you retire and you can take it out currently age 55, though the rule is changing to age 57, probably when Isaac retires, it'll be somewhere around age 60. And if you put money in your workplace pension, your employer has to contribute. The minimum figures are you put 5% in, they put 3% in.

• 6:21Martin Lewis?

  I'm glad to see it's higher in this particular case. Here's my problem, Matt.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  Go on.

• 6:27Martin Lewis?

  The rules say auto enrolment only starts once you're aged 22 and earning £10,000. If you earn £6,240, you can ask to be in your firm's pension scheme and it can't refuse and it must contribute too. And you can do that when you're 18, 19, 20, 21. Why don't we just make it automatic? If you're earning 10 grand at 18, that it goes into your pension because it means people are starting even earlier. And often at that age, funnily enough, they do have disposable income because many people are living at home and it will be tougher later on when they have many more costs to put money away in their pensions. And the law actually changed, so the, this is really complex now.

• 7:10Martin Lewis?

  The law changed a couple of years ago, giving the government the ability to change the rules so that auto enrolment started at a younger age, but they have never enacted that. And I think it's a shame. I think far more people should be more like Isaac. Well done, Isaac. Hopefully this will bear huge fruit. And if you really want to get complicated, grandparents, there's actually a rule that says you can contribute £3,600 to a pension even for a non-taxpayer, or the non-taxpayer can do it themselves, and they still get relief. So you can put £2,880 a year in a pension, the pension company, the relief will come in, in a private pension, that'll mean they actually have £3,600 saved on the back of putting £2,880 in.

• 7:55Martin Lewis?

  And you can do that for a child, you can do it for a baby, of course. Not only grandparents can do it, parents can do it, aunties and uncles can do it. But it's often a great way for grandparents to put money away for their grandchildren and be remembered once they're aged 60 and get their pension. You go, my grandpa, my grandma started this off. It's quite nice.

• 8:15Martin Lewis?

  Okay, curator of questions, let's do a question. It's what you're here for. That's why you've got questions.

• 8:18Speaker 05

  Literally the only reason I'm here.

• 8:21Martin Lewis?

  And you produce it.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  Oh, and I produce it as well.

• 8:22Martin Lewis?

  That's the reason you're here, but it's not the reason you stay afterwards and do all your wonderful tweaks and edits to make us both sound really cool.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  But the reason I'm speaking to you now is to ask a question.

• 8:31Martin Lewis?

  Correct.

• 8:31Speaker 05

  So this is from Belena. They've emailed in to [email protected]. Dear Martin and Matt, my daughter purchased an OLED TV for £1,299 on the 13th of December 2019. Last December, the television developed horizontal lines across the screen. She contacted the retailer on the 12th of December 2025.

• 8:53Martin Lewis?

  I'm hoping it's just not the horizontal lines aren't just that she's watching my show and I've aged and got wrinkles. I'm hoping that's not it. It's just a close-up shot and I've got wrinkles on my face and then she's, they're like, anyway, carry on.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  On the 12th of December, she contacted the retailer to arrange a collection for assessment at their repair centre. The retailer's since advised that the TV is beyond economical repair and has offered a partial refund of £130. So my question is, how does this outcome align with your sad fart criteria? Is it fair for the retailer to only offer £130 in these circumstances?

• 9:28Martin Lewis?

  Fascinating question. So I think many people will be surprised that as your telly is nearly, what is it? Nearly six years old, you've been offered anything at all when it goes faulty. Costs 1,300 quid, you've been offered 10% of its value. So let's just go into it. What are the sad fart rules for those who don't know? Most Question Time listeners will know, but let's do it anyway. When you buy something, it must be of satisfactory quality as described. That's your sad. Fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time. That's your fart. So sad fart. Reasonable length of time is the key here. I always describe it by talking about, you know, you bought a £1,200 mobile phone and it stops working even though you've not done anything wrong after 13 months.

• 10:12Martin Lewis?

  Has it lasted a reasonable length of time? Most people would say no. You bought a 20p plastic whistle and it stops working after 13 months. Would most people say it's lasted a reasonable length of time? Yes, most people would. And reasonable is just that it has a subjective definition of what, you know, what they used to say in the old days, that the man on the Clapham Omnibus, that's when it was a man on the Clapham Omnibus and there was a Clapham Omnibus. That was the original legal definition. You know, that's how they'd describe it. What would the man on the Clapham Omnibus say? But I move on. So it's what a reasonable person would say was reasonable. So where are we here? When you buy something, you have a right to a full refund if you return it within 30 days.

• 10:53Martin Lewis?

  After that, if the proof is that the item was faulty when you bought it, and faulty when you bought it includes that it was not built in a way to last a reasonable length of time, which is how a fault that develops later can be a fault when you bought it, because so if you see what I mean, because it didn't come from the beginning, then you are entitled to a repair, a like-for-like replacement, or a partial refund or price reduction.

• 11:19Martin Lewis?

  So now we've established that everybody understands what the sad fart rules are. These are your statutory consumer rights and you understand what a reasonable length of time is. We can start to move into more detail on this question. This £1,300 OLED TV that's lasted not quite six years yet.

• 11:37Martin Lewis?

  So when you take an item back within the first 30 days, you are entitled to a full refund if it was faulty at the point at which you bought it. Faulty includes was not built in a way that it lasts a reasonable length of time. After the 30 days, then the store can give you a repair, a like-for-like replacement, or a partial refund or price reduction. And clearly, they're giving you a partial refund. So the question here, I think it really stems down to what do we think a reasonable lifespan of an expensive OLED TV is? If the lifespan is five or six years, then you're not entitled to anything. If it's 10 or 15 years, then you're entitled to a rather big sum.

• 12:19Martin Lewis?

  So we're getting down to a sort of attitudinal question here of how long you think it should last. You could only ultimately test this in court and it would be done based on reasonable definitions, although you could put arguments of how long a typical lifespan would be. You're not going to do any of that. You're not going to go to court with this. It's just, it's not worth your time, I suspect. So in my view, I would expect an OLED TV to last six, seven, eight years. So I think this is on the short side of it breaking. I think they are right to offer you a partial refund. I think the partial refund they're offering you, for me, because you've had five, let's say you've had five years of seven years usage, so we could say that you get a two-seventh refund of the 1,200 quid.

• 13:03Martin Lewis?

  So I think that 130 is a little bit on the tight side. I would be quite happy if I were you to get 250. I think to push it to 250 would work reasonably well. So you might want to go back and counter offer them. But if you're honestly asking me, is this within the sad fart rules? Yes. What they've done is absolutely within the sad fart rules. This is just a question of how much they're giving you, so it becomes a negotiation.

• 13:29Martin Lewis?

  Robert in Glasgow is here. Hello, Robert.

• 13:33Speaker 04

  Hello, Martin. Hello, Matt, our lovely creator of questions.

• 13:36Martin Lewis?

  Oh, yes. Well done. It's stuck. Yeah, it is stuck. That is who you now are. And a Robert, a Robert with a Scottish accent. As a pun man, I'm just going to try and grit my teeth and not say anything. What's your question?

• 13:50Speaker 04

  Thank you. There's always been a focus, quite rightly, on reducing costs of debt. But my question's about what to do once you're out of debt. I'm 42 just now. I live with my wife and my 10-year-old daughter. I work in the civil service by day and have done so since I was 18. Now, during that time, I've been promoted a few times and I could probably say that I earn a reasonable salary when compared with some.

• 14:19Martin Lewis?

  Good for you.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  However, when I was 18, I made quite a few poor financial decisions, I'll say, and debt began to build up. I refinanced this several times and things just got worse and worse. I then got used to living in credit and having that revolving credit and never actually having access to my full salary. And that situation continued until my mid-30s. And really around about then I began to get sick of it and I decided to do something about it because I was really struggling quite significantly. So I took your advice and contacted Step Change, who then kind of helped me through some things.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  And basically, for the last five years or so, I have been using a significant proportion of my salary every month to pay down my debts. And next week is my final payment.

• 15:15Martin Lewis?

  Oh, your debt-free day.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  My debt-free day, yes, will be next week.

• 15:19Martin Lewis?

  Oh, I love it.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  And I'm very much looking forward to it. Thank you. So really, I have, I will have, I don't have just now any credit cards, any car payments, any loans, anything like that. The only thing that's there now is my mortgage, which is fine. So really, my question is, what now? What do I do when I have no secured debt? How much should I save or invest? How should I allow myself luxuries? I know that these might to some people sound like some kind of silly questions, but literally, at no point in my adult life have I worked and had no debt. And perhaps my family background, money was always a problem as a child for my parents. And so I've never really seen that positive financial situation.

• 16:05Speaker 04

  So how do I go about living the rest of my life, enjoying this kind of newfound freedom whilst building a future for my family? And perhaps most importantly for me, being a positive role model financially for my 10-year-old daughter for the future, so that she doesn't have to go through what I have gone through.

• 16:24Martin Lewis?

  First of all, if it's not patronizing to say, well done. You're at a wonderful part now, but I know it won't have been easy to get there. And it takes discipline and self-control and a change of your brain set. And I think that will already make you a good role model for your daughter. And I would be honest and open with her. I would go next week and I, you know, I think the three of you should mark this as an occasion. And you should actually say, and you should explain to her what debt means and what it was, and you made mistakes young and it's, and now, and that this means life is going to be better for all of us. So huge, huge congratulations from me. I genuinely, my eyes watered when you said you were going to have your debt-free day because I know just how big a moment that is.

• 17:06Martin Lewis?

  And my ultimate philosophy about money, I mean, people always think that I'm about being tight. It's absolutely not that. I am about getting the most happiness out of your life by looking after your money in the right way. And being in debt is a misery. And it's a misery that is so much bigger than whatever you materially buy with what you've borrowed from, especially the unsecured debt. So getting out of it is a real joy and it's a joy to hear. But you're right, those are important questions. Now, so it sounds to me like, it's almost like someone who's been on a diet. And when you finish on the diet, you still feel nervous about eating things because you've trained yourself so hard not to eat and that you're in that brain set at the moment. Is that fair?

• 17:47Speaker 04

  I think it is. And actually, it's funny, it's why I'm, we have my car just now, it's been paid off. It's been paid off for about a year because that wasn't part of the arrangement when I first made it. And I'm now thinking, it's now getting to the point where I'm having to pay significant amounts of money to keep it on the road, but I'm too scared to actually go and buy another car on credit because I don't want to have that over me. I've enjoyed not having the car payments. So really, I don't mind paying relatively large repair bills for the car because that's maybe only worth two, three, four months of a car payment. And so I'll end up better off in the long run. But at some point, the car, the car will become unrepairable. And so really, there's things like that which have kind of get in the way of my mindset now.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  I'm scared to want to go and do anything now.

• 18:33Martin Lewis?

  So the first thing I'd say to you is that actually, genuinely, when we look at the psychology of money, one of the problem money casts is miserliness. Now, I'm not accusing you of that. You've done exactly the right thing. But it's important to understand that money and the money that you earn has a purpose and that purpose is to give you the best life possible. Now, if I were looking at and saying, you've been putting away £850 a month, you need to make a decision. I think you certainly, because you've got that wonderful discipline that you've set up, you could still be putting aside £400 a month and using that to build, or £500 a month, and using that to build a sound financial future. And the rest of that money, you need to, and I'm not, only you can make the decision of where you are on that.

• 19:17Martin Lewis?

  So you know, you might decide it's £600 a month, £700 you want to put away. But the rest of that money, you need to actually give yourself permission to spend, to enjoy, and to improve your quality of life now, because you're doing very well on it. So. You know, and if that's going well, maybe I can put that to a new car payment. Then you can put it to a new car payment if that's what would give you the maximum amount of utility, the maximum amount of happiness in your life. And I think you actually need to sit down, do a budget and work through what am I allowed to spend and what am I not allowed to spend. And funnily enough, for someone with your mindset, who's had to rigidly put themselves into that mindset, I think a budget would be really helpful.

• 20:01Martin Lewis?

  So that you, I don't know if you do, do you do piggy banking or jam jarring where you have separate accounts for different things?

• 20:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 20:07Martin Lewis?

  Right, so that's still fine. And then, of course, the advantage of that is if you have, if you give yourself a discretionary spend account, yeah, and you have one, an account which, and then you look in that and it's got a thousand pounds in, then you can spend a thousand pounds guilt free on something that makes you happy. I mean, you do all the money mantras, is it worth it, will I use it, all of those things. But on something that's going to enhance your life, you will have to give yourself permission to do that. And you can still do that and be a good role model to your daughter because you're going to be saving a lot for her future and for your future. So I, I think it is time to do a budget, but from a good reason, to give yourself permission to spend and to have an account where the money in it is, it's almost your guilt free spending account.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:51Martin Lewis?

  Because would that help?

• 20:53Speaker 04

  Absolutely would, it's, it's, it's very exciting, even the thought of it. Because what we've tried to do with my daughter so far is to show her how you get money by working, you know, and you, and you, and you get hopefully a good job by studying well at school, she is still at primary school, but trying to get this into her head just now that things don't appear from nowhere and you only get things by working for it. So this all ties into that same thing and we will get nice things because mummy and daddy have worked, you know, for it and we have saved our money. And so I'm looking forward to be able to show her that and as a practical example.

• 21:24Martin Lewis?

  And I have to say, my daughter's 13, so I'm a few years down the path. And the difference in perception and understanding about these things is going to be massive over the next three years because I've seen it changed. And she will get more interested and be more inquisitive about what's going on. So the timing is perfect. I think it's perfect. Let's talk about the rest of the money. Okay. So the rest of the money, you've got a mortgage, do you know what your mortgage rate is?

• 21:47Speaker 04

  Oh, it's, we, I'm currently on 1.99% and it's, that was a five year fix and it expires on July 27.

• 21:56Martin Lewis?

  I mean, talk about, talk about some.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  I timed it nicely, yeah, I timed it nicely, yeah.

• 22:01Martin Lewis?

  Brilliant. So, I mean, I, there's no point going on to a mortgage account, there is no point in you overpaying that mortgage at the moment, but there is point you having, potentially having money put aside to be able to mean that you, when you remortgage in 2027, that you can get a smaller mortgage at that point to reach it because mortgage rates are going to be a lot higher and that's something that's going to change. So you could certainly be putting money away for that you would want to save in the highest interest rate savings account, you can work out how to go and get those yourself, I'm sure. And you'll be wanting to put that money aside. I would also say at your age, you need to be contributing to a pension and you've got a civil service pension, so that would be good. And you probably want to start investing. And, you know, you've got, it sounds to me like you've got money that you do not need

• 22:46Martin Lewis?

  to touch for at least five years and that will be spare money. So going to get yourself an investment account, not a savings account for the money that is spare money and you won't need to use your mortgage to put, put a certain amount in each month, I'm not, let's say a nominal 150 pounds, I'm not saying 150 pounds, I'm giving it you. And you go and you put that in a broad spread of assets, you get yourself, this is not advice, these are examples, it could be you get a global tracker fund, it could be you get an S and P 500 tracker fund and a FTSE 100 tracker fund and you split it between those, that type of thing, go and do some reading on that, I can't, I'm not regulated to give you any advice or help on that, but that's the type of thing. And you put the money aside and hopefully in 10 years' time, that will substantially outperform savings.

• 23:31Martin Lewis?

  Also for your daughter in a junior ISA, you could do the same. And you could do an investment junior ISA for her when she's 18, which will hopefully, if she does have university costs, I mean, if she's not going to university in Scotland, that could happen, that you might want to put aside then. But you need to see this as a glorious opportunity. The one caution I would give you is you've built up the discipline and actually unless you have millions and millions of pounds of your income, financial discipline is still a really important skill for giving yourself happiness. So I would stick to the path that you've had, but give yourself a certain amount of permission for some spending, but take the advantage of, you know, you are habitually

• 24:15Martin Lewis?

  good at budgeting now to, to put some money aside and protect yourself for the future because, and, and I hope this doesn't happen to you and I hope this is wasted information, but one of the biggest causes of debt and one of the biggest causes of money problems is change of circumstance. And we are all potential victims to change of circumstance. I mean, I, I always remember talking to a man who lost his leg and it stopped him working and it changed everything. And he said to me, I never knew I was going to lose my leg. Well, of course you didn't. So that's why I would still keep some of that discipline together. Anything else you want from me? I'm so excited for you.

• 24:47Speaker 04

  And I'm very excited about, and probably the thing that excites me the most is being able to give my daughter the childhood and adolescence that I didn't have. And giving her the chance to go on those school trips and to do those things, the things I never even dared ask about as a child, because I just knew we couldn't do it. And so I'm excited for her. But actually, the main thing I'd like to take out of this call is for anyone else listening who finds himself in that situation to just make the leap and make the call. I found that there have been, I've been lots of interactions with Step Change, they've been incredibly helpful, never judge you, they're just there to help, they sorted everything out for me, made a plan. That plan has varied over the five years as things have gone up and down in life.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  And just to go out and do it, I, I understand that it's, that it's scary. I've been there with my head in the sand. That doesn't work. And just go out and do it because every day that passes is a day that you could be closer to your debt free day.

• 25:42Martin Lewis?

  Robert, wonderful, but let, let me ask you one thing, I'm interested in this from your psychology. I mean, it's great now to look back at the path that you have trodden and that it's worked for you. When you first started and you got onto the debt management plan with, with Step Change and there's also, I should say Citizens Advice and National Debt Line, they're all brilliant organisations, will do something similar and do go and get help. If you're, if you're concerned about your debts, get help soon. But when you started and you had, did you know how long it was going to take you to get to this point? And how did you mentally cope with that sort of knowing you were in the tunnel for quite a period of time?

• 26:19Speaker 04

  I did know that and at that time, five years seems a long time away, but actually things have flown by. You know, the, when I started this, you know, COVID was just around the corner when this, when this kicked off for me and we can look back.

• 26:34Martin Lewis?

  That might have helped you a little, actually.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  I, I think it did, I think there was an element that certainly did help, but no, I just had the attitude of, well, do you know, it may seem a long way away, but there is no way to deal with this other than to deal with it, you know, and to start the journey. And every, every great journey starts with one, with one step, you know, and we just have to take that, that first step and, and just go with it. Because what I didn't want to, I didn't want to get into my mid 40s, 50s, 60s and so on, living the same way that I was in my 20s and 30s. A lot of my kind of early life, it's not been happy during that time and I've been so constrained and I just want, I wanted life to be different.

• 27:13Martin Lewis?

  Oh, I think you're inspirational and I think you will help a lot of people by making this call. I hope I've helped you a little bit, but I genuinely so appreciative for you calling up and talking to us. Well done, mate. I'm wishing you and your family a glorious, still somewhat frugal, life going forward.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  And to you, thank you.

• 27:33Speaker 05

  This is off the back of Robert, so loads of people got in touch with their stories. One that I liked was from Carly, so she emailed it in. She said, hi team, just listened to Monday's podcast and the last caller in his story. This is me, I'm mid 30s and I've never not been in debt. My childhood was spent seeing my family just use credit to buy whatever they want and then have to make some heartbreaking decisions later in life. My grandparents split as one had remortgaged the house to the hilt, leaving them homeless in their 80s. This week I contacted Step Change and set up a debt management plan. I'm over 60,000 pounds in debt. I reached the point where I could no longer refinance and the interest was as much as the multiple repayments.

• 28:15Speaker 05

  I listened to the podcast and cried with relief that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for having this caller on. I've never, ever been taught or thought about seeking budgeting advice or education. I feel silly for only just starting to think about it now at the age of 35, but appreciate him and you so much. I can't wait till my debt free day is in sight, but I know it's a long way away, seven years away, but at least it's realistic now.

• 28:43Martin Lewis?

  Oh, Carly, thank you so much for getting in touch. I think I'm moved by it. I'm sure Robert will be listening and he will be moved by it too. And it's so important that you've taken, like anything else in, in life where you're having difficulties, taking that first step is the most important. You're now dealing with it and you've now got a plan. And I, I think back to my early days when I used to do money makeover television programmes and I'd go into someone's house who had debt. And one of the things, no one who, who is in a lot of debt, they never add it up, they never want to know what the total figure is, they, they actually forget, often forget some of the debts they've got. And I would go in and I would compile it all and I would say, okay, we've now got the figure, in your case, it's 60,000 pounds worth of debt.

• 29:29Martin Lewis?

  And you would see people's faces go white and you would see them looking scared and intimidated and they'd go, oh gosh, it's so much worse than I thought. And what I would always say at that point and mean at that point was, it's not.

• 29:46Martin Lewis?

  The debt was always there. All we've done is work out exactly what your debts are so that we can start to deal with it. This isn't the bottom point. The bottom point was yesterday, when you weren't tackling it, when we weren't thinking about how do we get you out of it. Today, now that we actually know what the debt is, the total, this isn't the bottom point, this is the start of the journey out of your debt. And that's exactly the sentiment that Carly had and the right sentiment that Carly had in her email. Wonderful for anyone struggling with debt, you know, and we're talking, struggling to meet your minimum repayments, can't sleep because of your debts, you've got more than

• 30:30Martin Lewis?

  a year's after tax salary in unsecured credit card or loan type of debt, any of those, if you're in that, then go and get yourself non-profit debt counselling help. Step Change, have you heard there? Citizens Advice Bureau, National Debt Line, Christians Against Poverty, who do emotional counselling too.

• 30:49Martin Lewis?

  How are we going to do this? I don't, I do not know whether what we're going to call our contributors is monetary policy, but NPCs or ESQs, Esquires. I mean, this, this is big.

• 30:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is big.

• 30:59Martin Lewis?

  Have we done a press release?

• 31:00Speaker 05

  We haven't got it prepped yet. I think Rosie's in the process as we speak.

• 31:05Martin Lewis?

  Can we have words with the BBC 10 o'clock news?

• 31:07Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 31:08Martin Lewis?

  And maybe, I just think maybe, I mean, I don't want to go over the top. I mean, it shouldn't be first. I mean, it shouldn't be first on the news.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  No.

• 31:14Martin Lewis?

  You know, but maybe that and finally bit.

• 31:17Speaker 05

  Hmm, I could see Fiona Bruce reading it out.

• 31:19Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 05

  And just to let you know.

• 31:20Martin Lewis?

  Clive, Clive, maybe, Clive. And finally, it's been announced that the name of contributors on the Martin Lewis podcast brackets Question Time edition close back that Martin presents with Matt is...

• 31:32Speaker 05

  And then a big drum roll.

• 31:33Martin Lewis?

  And a big drum roll.

• 31:34Speaker 05

  Maybe some confetti on the set.

• 31:35Martin Lewis?

  Oh, you know how they used to, do they still do the lottery programme? I don't think they do, do they?

• 31:39Speaker 05

  I don't think so.

• 31:40Martin Lewis?

  We could just have a special one-off, like lottery programme, five minutes to announce it. Or shall we just tell us, tell us what the winner is?

• 31:46Speaker 05

  I think we should just tell us. So should we just do a quick background if you haven't, if you don't know?

• 31:50Martin Lewis?

  I think they've got it.

• 31:51Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 31:51Martin Lewis?

  We asked, we asked for your suggestions. We asked for everybody's suggestions, right? And they were, and we, short in X Factor style, i.e. we dictated and got rid of all the ones we didn't like so that we didn't have to be called them, so that we would be happy with whatever you picked.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:05Martin Lewis?

  We narrowed it down to two, based purely on our own selfish concerns.

• 32:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:11Martin Lewis?

  But there is some jeopardy involved in this because of the two options, ESQs were suggested by Steve, listener Steve.

• 32:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:20Martin Lewis?

  But MPC was suggested by podcast producer Simon.

• 32:23Speaker 05

  Boo, no, I'm joking.

• 32:25Martin Lewis?

  Who produces the big topic podcast that we do with Adrian on a Thursday.

• 32:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 32:30Martin Lewis?

  So of course, that's slightly threatening to Matt's dominance within the Question Time podcast. Matt is also going to be letting Simon in because Simon will be producing while Matt's taking those few weeks off. That's your own issue, Matt.

• 32:41Speaker 05

  I know.

• 32:41Martin Lewis?

  That's your own issue. So Matt clearly favours ESQs, but we've got NPCs in there.

• 32:48Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 32:49Martin Lewis?

  Matt, do I have to call for an independent audit of the, or, you know, hand on heart?

• 32:55Speaker 05

  Hand on heart.

• 32:56Martin Lewis?

  Hand on heart.

• 32:57Speaker 05

  Cross my heart.

• 32:57Martin Lewis?

  I could send Rosie in.

• 32:59Speaker 05

  I have gone through and every email I've ticked off.

• 33:03Martin Lewis?

  Okay.

• 33:04Speaker 05

  So I can see that I've counted the vote. I have a tally chart on a spreadsheet. It's counted it up for me. Like, I've got my hand in the air.

• 33:12Martin Lewis?

  Rosie, let me just chat, let me just chat with, Rosie, do we trust Matt's counting? Rosie trusts you, Matt, so I trust you.

• 33:17Speaker 05

  Perfect. Do you want me to reveal the?

• 33:19Martin Lewis?

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  Okay, so we had 176 votes as of starting.

• 33:24Martin Lewis?

  Via email.

• 33:25Speaker 05

  Via email as of starting the recording of this podcast.

• 33:28Martin Lewis?

  Yeah. And which is actually quite a lot for the method we chose. We didn't make it easy.

• 33:32Speaker 05

  It was only a few days as well.

• 33:33Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 05

  Um, so the runner up with 66 of the votes.

• 33:41Martin Lewis?

  Just telling you, you can't do this. You can say the vote number and you, if you do the runner up, we all know who the winner is. So, but you, you want to give the winner the, you've got to do the winner as an announcement.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 33:50Martin Lewis?

  So what you do, and having done this many times, as you say, as I can now do the maths, because you've just told me, the runner up got 61 votes. The winner got 115 votes. Quick maths, you see.

• 34:02Speaker 05

  Well, that's just 66.

• 34:03Martin Lewis?

  What's that?

• 34:04Speaker 05

  It was 66.

• 34:04Martin Lewis?

  Oh, it's 66. Oh, I got it all wrong. Okay, the runner up got 66 votes. The winner got 110 votes and the winner.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  And then you did, so you would do on the winner in. Do you want me to do that again or just do the winner is?

• 34:15Martin Lewis?

  No, no, no, no, keep all this in.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 34:17Martin Lewis?

  Rosie, Rosie's enjoying it very much, which is always a good way to tell if the listeners will. I was just saying that if you tell them what the runner up is, you've effectively announced the winner.

• 34:25Speaker 05

  Oh, I see.

• 34:26Martin Lewis?

  And that, but the winner's, but you've done it on a negative. You can't do it on a negative, you have to do it on a positive.

• 34:30Speaker 05

  What I was going to say is the runner up with 66 of the votes was, and that means that our winner is?

• 34:37Martin Lewis?

  Okay, yeah, but no, no, because, because then you've done the big moment on the runner up.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 34:41Martin Lewis?

  Because our listeners are clever enough to work out that if you've got two options and one is runner up, they are going to work out straight away what the winner is. So the, the proper announcing etiquette is like in a boxing match. And in a split decision, judge so and such scores it 10 to 8. But they don't say what the score, who got the 10 and who got the 8. Judge so and such scores it, you know, they, they just say what the score is. So you, so we're going to, going to go from the top, but we'll keep all this in.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 35:08Martin Lewis?

  And you're going to, you're going to announce the votes, numbers, and then you're going to announce the winner.

• 35:13Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 35:14Martin Lewis?

  Okay. Good luck, Matt.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 35:15Martin Lewis?

  This is your big moment. This is the bit they'll cut on the 10 o'clock news.

• 35:18Speaker 05

  Yes. The runner up got 66 votes.

• 35:21Martin Lewis?

  Ooh, did they?

• 35:22Speaker 05

  The winner got 110 votes and the winner was Esquires.

• 35:29Martin Lewis?

  I knew it, I knew it. Well done, Esquires. Matt is so happy, aren't you happy, Matt?

• 35:33Speaker 05

  Confetti cannons are going off in the studio.

• 35:35Martin Lewis?

  Sorry, sorry, pub producer Simon, and well done. That's a great way to finish. I would like to thank all the Esquires who have been in touch this week. When we come to next week's podcast, I'm going to record a new intro, a new, I'm going to write a new script intro because the script is, the intro is scripted although we recorded, which includes explaining what Esquires is. And that's going to be the new way we go forward. And well done to our badge holders from today.

• 35:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 35:58Martin Lewis?

  If you put a question in and are an Esquire and podcast producer Matt gets in touch with you and says, we'd like you to ask a question, remember, if you record it or even better, you come on live, you get a badge. What an amazing place to finish, honestly.

• 36:16Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week's Best of Question Time. Don't forget to subscribe so you know when we release a new episode. And if you've got questions for once we start recording the new one, just send them to [email protected]. And don't forget, if you come on the show, we'll send you an exclusive Martin Lewis podcast Question Time ESQ badge. Who wouldn't want that?

• 36:50Speaker 05

  Martin Lewis is the founder of moneysavingexpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing martinlewispodcast at bbc.co.uk. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

• 37:26Speaker 05

  Sometimes we all need an extra helping hand, especially with a tricky business problem you've been putting off. Claude is the AI for just that. It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you. And Claude isn't just for quick questions. Hand it a whole task, like turning a folder of scattered notes into a report, and it does the work and hands back something finished that you can open and edit. Claude can now draft a doc or deck right in front of you, and Claude Design now lives right inside Claude. Describe the website or prototype you're picturing, attach your design system, and it comes back in your own design language, ready to edit right on the canvas. It works with your files and the tools you already use, like Gmail and Slack.

• 38:11Speaker 05

  And whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model, or strategising your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/solve. That's claude.ai/solve. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Claude.ai/solve. This week on The Interface, millions of kids have grown up on camera with their childhoods turned into content. There's a new law in California that gives influencers the right to be forgotten, and it could impact adults, too.

• 38:46Martin Lewis?

  And an attack on Russian data centres started a rumour that all the evil disinformation bots had been deleted from the internet. But the truth might actually be a lot scarier.

• 38:58Speaker 05

  For our take, join me, Jess Maddox.

• 39:00Martin Lewis?

  And me, Thomas Germain, for The Interface.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.