201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)

In today's episode, we examine a disturbing string of murder attached to the infamous television program "Ghost Adventures", and speak with one of the original cast members and co-founders of the show, Nick Groff, about his direct ties to the crimes. The stories that we are about to share with you are sure to shock you, and one of them is still playing out right now as we release this episode. These are dark, disturbing stories, so listener discretion is heavily advised. Podcast clips featuring Mark & Debbie Constantino taken from S3 Ep77 of “Darkness Radio” with Dave Schrader. Full show can be found here: https://youtu.be/BmAkm229s7Q - Listen to our new show, "THE CONSPIRACY FILES"!: -Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5IY9nWD2MYDzlSYP48nRPl -Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/id1752719844 -Amazon/Audible - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ab1ade99-740c-46ae-8028-b2cf41eabf58/the-conspiracy-files -Pandora - https://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/PC:1001089101 -iHeart - https://iheart.com/podcast/186907423/ -PocketCast - https://pca.st/dpdyrcca -CastBox - https://castbox.fm/channel/id6193084?country=us - Stay Connected: Join the Murder in America fam in our free Facebook Community for a behind-the-scenes look, more insights and current events in the true crime world: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4365229996855701 If you want even more Murder in America bonus content, including ad-free episodes, come join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderinamerica Instagram: http://instagram.com/murderinamerica/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/people/Murder-in-America-Podcast/100086268848682/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MurderInAmerica TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanormalfiles and https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneybrowen Feeling spooky? Follow Colin as he travels state to state (and even country to country!) investigating claims of extreme paranormal activity and visiting famous haunted locations on The Paranormal Files Official Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheParanormalFilesOfficialChannel - (c) BLOOD IN THE SINK PRODUCTIONS 2025 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:48Speaker 02

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• 0:54Speaker 02

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• 1:16Colin Brown?

  Warning: The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.

• 1:28Courtney Brown?

  Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.

• 1:34Colin Brown?

  This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.

• 1:42Colin Brown?

  As some of you may know, when I'm not podcasting, I'm a full-time paranormal investigator on my YouTube channel, The Paranormal Files. I've been interested in the paranormal since I was a little kid. And a huge part of my childhood was sitting down every weekend with my mom and watching the show Ghost Adventures. In the show, three men named Nick Groff, Zach Baggins, and Aaron Goodwin traveled around investigating the most haunted locations around the world. And they made a huge impression on me as a kid. But recently, Ghost Adventures has been getting a lot of attention in the media. That's because, a few months ago, authorities learned that someone had been planning to murder Aaron Goodwin, one of the show's main cast members.

• 2:25Colin Brown?

  And that person, who had been trying to have Aaron killed, was none other than his own wife. But that's not the only dark event in the history of Ghost Adventures. Today, we're going to tell you the story of a chilling murder-suicide, connected to Ghost Adventures that happened back in 2015. And for this episode, we had the incredible privilege of interviewing Nick Groff, one of the original cast members of the show. And he's sharing some of this information publicly for the very first time. So, this is the story of Victoria Goodwin, Aaron Goodwin, and Mark and Debbie Constantino. I'm Colin Browne.

• 3:02Courtney Brown?

  And I'm Courtney Browne.

• 3:03Colin Brown?

  And you're listening to Murder in America.

• 4:11Colin Brown?

  The episode that we're about to share with you is one that is very special to me, and it's also incredibly dark. But before we get into the murders, we have to introduce you to our special guest, a man named Nick Groff.

• 4:25Speaker 05

  I'm Nick Groff, co-created Ghost Adventures, Paranormal Lockdown, Ghost Suckers, Death Walker. Been on the journey for a very long time, since about 13 years old. I've been exploring the unknown, fascinated by all things weird. And yeah, I've been doing this for a long time. Executive produce, edited, filmed, been on camera for over a decade.

• 4:48Courtney Brown?

  To start the interview off, we asked Nick what initially got him interested in this field.

• 4:54Speaker 05

  Aliens and UFOs and extraterrestrials. I was that weird kid about 13 years old. My parents took me to Las Vegas to visit my sister's godparents, who lived there in Nevada. And they would tell me stories about their father, who helped build the bunkers at Area 51 in Nevada, in the secret base. And they introduced me to Art Bell at a very early age, so about 1993. I was listening to my little boombox radio on Art Bell late at night. Then my dad would walk into my room, you know, to try and put me to sleep and stuff as a teenager. And I'd have a map, remember the old fold-out maps? I actually had a legit map that I was trying to find, Area 51. I told my dad, "One day, I'm going there."

• 5:38Speaker 05

  I also grew up in Nashua, New Hampshire. And my grandparents, specifically my grandma, she would talk to me too about the abduction case that took place in New Hampshire way back in the 50s. So I got introduced at a very early age to aliens. And then I was just, you know, that interesting kid that would look up into space or look up into the sky and say, "What else is out there? We can't just be it as human beings in this vast universe."

• 6:07Colin Brown?

  For as long as he can remember, Nick was fascinated with the unknown, something that would stick with him throughout his life.

• 6:13Speaker 05

  In high school, I actually was looking for ghosts and paranormal. My buddies and I, we would, you know, hop in the car and hear about this burnt-down house in Massachusetts. We would drive over the border and go see this house. And we would walk up to it, and then all of a sudden, there'd be a creek in the house, and all my buddies would run away. And I would be the only one standing there, looking in the window. So I was one of those kids. It didn't scare me as much, I was more intrigued.

• 6:41Courtney Brown?

  After high school, Nick went off to college at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. And from there, he started exploring his interests even more.

• 6:51Speaker 05

  I went to college at UNLV. And I started exploring all the haunted mining towns. I went up to Area 51 and the little town of Rachel. I got as close as I could to the secret base. And I just started exploring all those things that intrigued me as a little kid. I had video camera equipment back then. I was shooting little films because I went to film school. So I made my first project called Malevolence in 2004 that screened at the Cinevagus Film Festival with Dennis Hopper, David Lynch, and all those people that were there. And I said, man, I want to make a project where I go off and I document, you know, anything to do with ghosts or paranormal, and I just want to see if it exists. So I said, I have all this camera gear. I know how to kind

• 7:35Speaker 05

  of edit mini DV tape and kind of put something together. But I didn't know what that was. I didn't even know what a documentary was back then. I just knew that I could film and have like a lump of mini DV tapes and footage and kind of put maybe a narrative or something behind it. Let's just see what happens.

• 7:53Colin Brown?

  One of the haunted places that really stuck out to Nick was the Washoe Club in Virginia City, Nevada. It's a historic saloon that dates back to the mid 19th century, and it has an old Western vibe. Interestingly, back in the day during the brutal winters, the Washoe Club was used to store bodies until the ground in the area thawed enough to dig graves. So during that time, bodies upon bodies were piled up inside of that saloon. And to this day, some say you can still feel an energy there. I actually investigated the Washoe Club a few years ago, and I can tell you from personal experience, the building feels dark. Everybody has their own experiences and ideas about the paranormal. Some are skeptics, some are believers. But I can

• 8:37Colin Brown?

  tell you that what I felt in there was 100% genuine. It was a very dark presence that hovered over your body. And frankly, I didn't really want to stay in the building all that long. But back to Nick. These experiences, visiting haunted locations around Nevada, really stuck with him. It was a fascination of his that he had had since he was a kid. But Nick's other interests at the time was film. He was actually in film school at UNLV, and it's here where he learned how to be a filmmaker. He also started his first projects there, which would go on to win awards and film festivals. Nick knew that this was his calling. But it's also in film school where Nick crossed paths with Aaron Goodwin, his future colleague on the show Ghost Adventures.

• 9:20Colin Brown?

  Born on April 1st, 1976 in Portland, Oregon, Aaron moved to Las Vegas to pursue his passion for filmmaking. Before Ghost Adventures, Aaron worked as a camera operator for the Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC, NASCAR, and also for behind-the-scenes footage for Las Vegas film premieres. But during this time, wanting to advance his career, Aaron would actually sneak onto UNLV's campus and sit in on the lectures. And that's where he met Nick.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  So I knew Aaron Goodwin for a long time. He would sneak into my college classes, and that's how we kind of became friends. At the end of classes, we'd be the two standing there talking to the film professor. And the film professor would tell Aaron, "Hey, you want to do film projects, work with me, Nick?" Because I was already doing stuff. So that's kind of how we befriended. We knew each other for a long time. Then I graduated college, and I started picking up like wedding gigs, filming weddings, filming corporate events.

• 10:14Courtney Brown?

  And it was through these projects where Nick would meet the other future member of Ghost Adventures, Zach Baggins.

• 10:21Speaker 05

  I met Zach. I met Zach by doing weddings and stuff. He's a wedding DJ. And so we befriended. I said, "I'm working on some projects, hey." And he said, "Oh, I can do film and stuff like that." I said, "All right." And I hired him to actually shoot second camera for me at weddings.

• 10:40Colin Brown?

  Now, it's around this time when Nick sat down to watch a TV show called Sightings. And little did he know, this show would spark an idea, an idea that would eventually lead to his career in ghost hunting.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  But not until years later did I see an episode of Sightings on TV about the Sally House. And that's when I actually got really fascinated about spirits and poltergeists and things that could possibly attack you from beyond. You know, I saw the documentary news team who filmed that guy in the house, the family, and seeing him be scratched on camera while the reporter's filming without any cuts or anything being broadcasted. I said, "Man, if that's legit, I want to go out there and see if possibly something can physically harm me from beyond. And what is that? How is that possible?" And do ghosts exist? I really wanted to see firsthand. You know, I've had experiences as a little kid, but you know, as a logical thinker and getting a little bit older and more in-depth into the paranormal,

• 11:37Speaker 05

  I really just wanted to see for myself and kind of search it out.

• 11:41Courtney Brown?

  So Nick decided to put his passions together, film and the paranormal.

• 11:47Speaker 05

  I said, man, I want to make a project where I go off and I document, you know, anything to do with ghosts or paranormal, and I just want to see if it exists. So I said, I have all this camera gear. I know how to kind of edit mini DV tape and kind of put something together. But I didn't know what that was. I didn't even know what a documentary was back then. I just knew that I could film and have like a lump of mini DV tapes and footage and kind of put maybe a narrative or something behind it. Let's just see what happens.

• 12:16Colin Brown?

  But Nick knew he couldn't do this by himself. So he asked Zach Baggins, who was helping him film weddings at the time, if he wanted to join him.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  So I called Zach up. I said, hey, man, I have all this camera equipment. Let's hop in the car. Let's go up to Virginia City, Nevada. I went there during my spring break, so I knew about Virginia City, Nevada. Let's go investigate all these haunted locations. I was walking through them on my spring break. I drove up there and I filmed a bunch of stuff on a VHS camera back then, but I have better cameras now. We can have night vision cameras with super night vision back then. Which is cool. This is 2004, 2005 started it. And he said, okay, let's do it. You know, he told me about some experience he had in Michigan and basically jumped in his little Scion car, which was super small. And we partnered up to go off and shoot that.

• 13:08Speaker 05

  And I said, hey, I know another guy who's really funny. He's a good friend of mine, Aaron, and we can take him with us. He can shoot camera two, it's three. So it would be like the three of us. So we can have two camera shots and whatever we can film.

• 13:20Courtney Brown?

  So together, Nick Groff, Zach Baggins and Aaron Goodwin traveled around the country, filming at some of the most haunted locations in America. And they would find exactly what they were looking for: ghosts. Nick said that throughout their filming, they had many haunted experiences, all of which were captured on their cameras. When they were finally finished with their trip, Nick started looking through all of the footage and he couldn't believe what they found.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  Mind blowing, some of the footage show, I was blown away and just started molding this weird narrative that I didn't know what it was, or what to call it, or anything, just started putting our journey together. And, long story short, it unfolded into a documentary, and I called him, I said, "Hey, let's call it Ghost." It's like an adventure for us. And, you know, he didn't really like the name in the beginning, because he thought it was too Disneyland-ish. And I said, "No, trust me, it's Ghost Adventures." Like, it's just, it's cool, it's like adventure boss, and we're looking for ghosts, Ghost Adventures.

• 14:27Colin Brown?

  Ghost Adventures, the name that so many people around the world know all too well. From here, the documentary was edited, and Nick put his heart and soul into it. They ended up taking the film to film festivals, and they even won some awards. Following this, Nick started calling up agents in Hollywood to see if they could grow this into something bigger. And after a while, they found an agent who had set them up with the Sci-Fi Channel. In 2007, the channel aired their documentary, which would end up being the start of their extremely successful careers.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  It aired in 2007, documentary, and it did like 1.2 million viewership on cable television, network back then was huge. And from there, we got introduced to another company who picked up the series in 2008, and aired on Travel Show. So that's how it started, man, that's exactly how it kinda went down. Really quickly summed up, with all the blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah, I remember climbing the Statue of Liberty in Manhattan, New York. We were there pitching, you know, the documentary into a reality show, and I remember getting the call after we walked out of Travel Show, and they said that they want to pick up the series for eight episodes. And that's how it started.

• 15:44Colin Brown?

  Obviously Ghost Adventures had a massive impact on pop culture. It was an absolutely huge show and it was in its formative years. And I can attest to the fact that people used to watch the show religiously. I would literally DVR the show every weekend. I can't remember when it aired, but it was sometime when it was past my bedtime. And then in the mornings on the weekends, my mom and I would get some coffee, get some breakfast, sit down on the couch and watch that week's episode of Ghost Adventures together. It really impacted me and it formed me kind of into the person that I am today. The paranormal files would not exist without Ghost Adventures. And honestly, genuinely, without the show, I think my life would be completely different.

• 16:25Colin Brown?

  So I'm so thankful for what that show did for the paranormal and for what that show did for me. And I'm sure that a lot of other people out there have similar stories.

• 16:35Courtney Brown?

  Now, over the years, as Ghost Adventures got bigger and bigger, they ended up meeting a lot of people within their industry, from psychics to demonologists. And eventually, they were introduced to a couple of married investigators named Debbie and Mark Constantino. Debbie and Mark were EVP specialists.

• 16:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, Mark and Debbie Constantino, I met them, let me think, way back was on Ghost Adventures. We were in Nevada, I think, oh, we were doing an event. It was one of our first events we did publicly, right when the documentary came out. And they, back then, they were the EVP specialists, electronic voice phenomena specialists, like spirit voices, digital recorder, playing back on their DR60 back then. Or they had like an arsenal of digital recorders and different types of recorders.

• 17:28Colin Brown?

  Now, for our non-ghost hunting listeners, EVPs are essentially audio evidence that's picked up on devices during investigations, like a spirit's voice on a voice recorder. That file itself of the voice saying something, that is an EVP. EVPs are an incredibly useful tool when trying to find evidence of the paranormal. And I've captured some profoundly disturbing EVPs in the past, including a phantom. Woman's voice that I recorded at the Hanging Rock in Salem, Massachusetts, and a disturbing voice that I caught on a voice recorder while spending the night in Leakin Park in Baltimore, a location where over 70 bodies have been dumped over the years,

• 18:09Colin Brown?

  from victims of serial killers to victims of random, senseless violence.

• 18:15Speaker 05

  I'm Mark.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  I'm Debbie.

• 18:16Speaker 05

  We're the Constantinos. We're EVP specialists.

• 18:19Speaker 06

  Specializing in whispers, low amp EVP.

• 18:22Courtney Brown?

  But Debbie and Mark were experts in their field. So they ended up working with ghost adventures on a number of their episodes. Having them on the show allowed them to get evidence of the paranormal in a way that they hadn't been able to do before. And Nick was fascinated with their craft. Over the years, he spent a lot of time with the couple, and he learned a lot from them as well.

• 18:45Speaker 05

  And they were just really good at it. It was really weird. And I was always trying to figure them out, like, you know, as a logical thinker. Like, I believe 100% in the unexplainable because we can't explain everything. But also, I'm always trying to be like, alright, what are you doing? That voice was way too clear. How are you doing? So I would ask them questions, and I would talk to them, and I would watch them. And I'd be like, oh, man, they're legitimately getting like, some creepy freaking voices coming through that is very, very validating some of the things that were happening. And it was like off-camera, too. It wasn't even for TV. It was like just investigating stuff with them personally, talking to them personally, hanging out at their house. And whenever we were crossing paths in Reno or Virginia City, we were up there a lot.

• 19:28Colin Brown?

  Now, within the paranormal world, Debbie and Mark were widely known. People loved them. Jadeen Solberg, founder of the Northern Nevada Ghost Hunters, told The Washington Post, "They were rock stars. If you talk to anybody who is coming into the paranormal, who have seen the TV shows, they'll ask, 'Do you know the Constantinos? Have you worked with them?'"

• 19:48Courtney Brown?

  As a little background, Debbie and Mark were married in 1989, and from the looks of it, they seemed to be the perfect match. They had a lot of shared interests throughout their lives, like animals, Bruce Springsteen, and they both loved the very well-known show, The Sopranos. Now upon meeting each other, Mark learned that Debbie had a gift. She was able to connect with the afterlife. Mark would later say, "Debbie has the gift of attracting spirits. She considers herself born with the natural ability to see, feel, and hear spirits. She also feels she vibrates on a level to glimpse into the nature realm." And Debbie had had this gift for as long as she could remember.

• 20:33Courtney Brown?

  She grew up in a small New Jersey town, in a house that faced a cemetery. She believed her house was haunted, and as she grew up, she wanted to seriously uncover the truth when it came to spirits and the afterlife. She ended up studying at the Reno Psychic Institute to help develop her clairvoyant skills. And eventually, she would meet her future husband, Mark. Now Mark always believed in the afterlife, but he had never had a paranormal experience. However, that would soon change. While he and Debbie lived in an apartment in Wayne, New Jersey, the couple started experiencing things. They would wake up in the middle of the night with deep scratches on their bodies. As they were hanging out in the living room,

• 21:18Courtney Brown?

  items in their home would fly off the shelves. And then at times, they would even see ghostly apparitions. From there, the couple would embark on their journey into the paranormal together.

• 21:30Colin Brown?

  Another huge event in the couple's life took place in 1991. At the time, Mark and Debbie had a six-month-old daughter together named Sienna Angelina. But tragically, when Sienna was just six months old, she passed away. And Mark and Debbie were devastated. For years, Debbie wondered if she would be able to communicate with her child in the spirit world. And eventually, she decided to try by attempting to capture EVPs. And so, deciding to hop fully into this, Mark and Debbie began to study and learn everything there was to know at the time about EVPs.

• 22:04Speaker 07

  We have online with us all the way out from Nevada, Mark and Debbie Constantino, EVP specialist. Thanks for joining us, guys.

• 22:10Speaker 08

  Oh, you're welcome.

• 22:11Speaker 07

  Our pleasure. Let's start for the people again that are just tuning in and are not familiar with EVP. And again, that's Electronic Voice Phenomenon. Can you guys give us a little bit of background? How did you get involved in this form of ghost hunting?

• 22:22Speaker 08

  Um, well, what do you think, Mark? I was raised in a haunted house that backed up to a cemetery. And I was seeing apparitions for, um, since I was a child. And, uh, every house I had since then, you know, I'm pretty sensitive. Every house I had since then had some kind of activity. I've tried pictures, I've tried everything. I've always known they were there, I'm clear audi, and, you know, and I guess EVP was the easiest way to, like you said, get immediate gratification and...

• 22:51Speaker 07

  And in the psychic realm, for people again that are just tuning in, clear audi, it means that you can actually hear, right? You can hear the spirits.

• 22:58Speaker 08

  Yeah, it would happen a lot when I was going to sleep and, you know, voices. It was almost like tuning in a radio would actually wake me from sleep. A lot of psychics have it, a lot of people in the ghosts I've talked to, but four channels, you're clear sentient, clear audi, clear thought, clear feeling, clear thinking. But generally, when I was a kid, it would mostly be clear audience. Why, I don't know. But it just seems like, um, I don't know, pictures, pictures are great, but you don't really, you know, I'll take a hundred pictures, maybe one of them might have something in it. That dust might look like it would have a face in there or something. I don't know that much about it. But to get direct responses, using your name... Going to a place you haven't been to in two years, going back and they say they're

• 23:41Speaker 08

  back, "Hi Debbie," you know, I mean, it's some amazing stuff.

• 23:45Speaker 09

  You know Debbie, so you know that she is nuts.

• 23:47Speaker 08

  But I'm sorry, Debbie's had three hours of sleep in the past 24 hours, they'll roll with me.

• 23:53Speaker 09

  But, um, yeah, no, I always believed, but I had just never experienced anything. And it didn't take long, you know, for me to kind of figure out what was going on with Debbie because, you know, when we first moved into our, our first apartment in New Jersey, you know, things started happening and she would come to me and say, "Hey, this is happening, this is happening." And it wasn't happening to me, so I was like, I mean, I believed her, but there's a difference in, you know, believing that it's there and actually knowing because you've experienced something that you cannot explain away. We have a daughter that passed away when she was six months old. And I was doing the dishes in our apartment and I could have sworn that I saw a child

• 24:37Speaker 09

  just walk past behind me, but it, it, and it's like with kind of shadows and stuff, the first thing you do is you kind of explain that away to yourself. Right.

• 24:46Colin Brown?

  The clip you just heard, along with other clips used in this episode, were taken from season three, episode 77 of Darkness Radio, hosted by Dave Schrader. And eventually, they wanted to share that knowledge with others, so that other people could connect to the afterlife as well. They even made their own blue business cards with the name "Spirit Speak," citing, "Do you suspect you're not alone? We provide proof it's possible to reach a loved one." They also purchased the best of the best equipment. And over the years, they became experts in the field. But in my own experience, I've learned that working in the paranormal realm can be a lot. Sometimes you go to these haunted locations and you can almost feel the evil inside of them.

• 25:28Colin Brown?

  It's an evil that bears down almost on your soul, an evil in a darkness that I feel lingers. There have been times where I've felt like a dark energy has followed me home. Even Courtney can attest, things happen in our house all the time. And we just moved in last year, I mean, the place was built in 2011. But on some dark nights, it seems like Courtney and I aren't alone. Nowadays, I do my best to cleanse myself after investigations. But for some people in the paranormal, that darkness, if you believe in it, can really affect them. Debbie was once quoted as saying, "I know there are such things as elementals and negative spirits. I saw Mark change into something evil and dark.

• 26:09Colin Brown?

  We were living in the apartments over by Meadowwood Mall when we first came to Reno. He was asleep one night, and when I woke him up, he sat up, but it wasn't Mark. This evil negative face had taken him over and was leering at me. I screamed at him, "Mark!", then it was gone, and Mark's face was Mark again. I hated that apartment, there was something dark there.

• 26:32Speaker 09

  But the first thing, the first profound thing, I think, that there was no way that I could explain away was, we moved out to Reno, Nevada, and we got an apartment, and Debbie, and Debbie can add into this, Debbie did some sort of, uh...

• 26:48Speaker 08

  Well, I'll tell you what happened really quickly. I, uh, we moved in, and I had been in New Jersey, and every place I lived, always some kind of paranormal stuff, whether it be shadow people hearing stuff, seeing stuff, having things move, that type of thing. And I, you know, it's a passion, it scared me to death as a child, but, you know, it's, at the same time, it's so fascinating, you know, I couldn't get enough of it. Then I move out here, and I thought, well, maybe it's the climate, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, but I'm, I'm not experiencing anything. So, um, I got a book at a spiritual store, and it was about opening your third eye, it wasn't magic, nothing like that. So I did this little exercise in the book, but back, you know, ten, thirteen years ago,

• 27:29Speaker 08

  I knew nothing about grounding and protecting myself, so I did this little thing. And I remember sitting at a bus stop, and the only way I can describe it to you, it was almost like if you were to take like a thick piece of cardboard, or a paper plate, light it on fire, and like, if you can imagine the ash that would fall, and the way it would fall. Alright, well this thing comes in front of my eyes, it just appears there and comes real intimidating, but the really weird trippy thing is I only see it with one of my eyes and it comes really close to my eye. Then all these things started happening in this apartment which was fine before I did this. We had three cats there, you have to pay that ten dollar deposit, you know, I didn't wanna pay it, even with a handyman would come over and fix stuff, I would hide my cats.

• 28:12Speaker 08

  My door was always locked, nobody was ever allowed there, nobody had the key. I would come home from work six o'clock every day and my front door would be wide open. My cats would be in there. Now, my cat was the neighborhood hussy, if there was any way that she could get out, that cat would have been out down the street, she would have had a litter of kittens by then, but the door was always open at six o'clock, wide open. The cats were always in the house, so it had to have just opened right before I got home. Things started happening, um, I got touched, light feathery fingers, but I mean, I know, you know, we've done the ghost hunts, a lot of people get touched, it's a little poke, these were light, feathery fingers and they moved really quick up the side of my temple. I mean, you could definitely feel each finger. And I explained this to Mark and then you could kick in, Mark at this point.

• 28:56Speaker 09

  Yeah, and then, and then again, I wasn't, the negative things that was, that were going on in the apartment were not affecting me.

• 29:03Speaker 08

  Not at all, they were surrounded around me, trying to scare me and intimidate me.

• 29:07Speaker 09

  Right, so, she came up to me and said, you know, I got touched, this is how I got touched, so I said, okay, well, nothing's happening to me, so, you know, just kinda deal with it, you know.

• 29:18Speaker 07

  Mr. Sensitivity.

• 29:21Speaker 09

  Yeah, and, um, and so, a couple nights later, we were watching TV and I started falling asleep on the couch and lo and behold, I got touched exactly the way Debbie had explained she got touched in exactly the same place. And for the first couple days, I, I kinda like woke up real fast and like grasped for breath because I knew kinda what had happened. And for the first couple days, I kinda told her it was nothing, you know, I just started dreaming or whatever, and then after, I think, three or four days, I told her what happened. And that, that was kinda my, uh, Pandora's box, it was like, a- at that point, it was time for me to kinda open up this Pandora's box and try to figure out, you know, e- exactly what's going on.

• 30:06Speaker 09

  As we know now, there's a lot out there, or as I know now, there's a heck of a lot out there that, that you can't see.

• 30:14Speaker 10

  Well, ghosts don't even scratch the surface as far as I'm concerned.

• 30:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:18Courtney Brown?

  But despite everything, Mark and Debbie were very passionate about their jobs. Soon enough, they started traveling to some of the most haunted places in the world. And the more they worked within this industry, the more skilled they became. Eventually, they were big names in the paranormal, and they worked with the best of the best, including the widely popular TV show Ghost Adventures.

• 30:48Courtney Brown?

  In 2008, Debbie praised Ghost Adventures for being unique, saying, quote, "There are a lot of people out there doing paranormal shows. They're a dime a dozen now. What makes this show unique is that they're going to some of the most haunted evil locations. If you really want to be frightened, they're doing the horror," end quote.

• 31:08Colin Brown?

  Here's a clip from an episode of Ghost Adventures that Mark and Debbie were featured on, where they were investigating the brothel known as the Mustang Ranch outside of Reno, Nevada for paranormal activity.

• 31:19Speaker 11

  We feel this response sets up the perfect moment for world-renowned EVP specialists and our good friends Mark and Debbie Constantino to join us, where they are trying to incite the spirit of Oscar Bonaventure.

• 31:35Speaker 06

  Oscar, we're trying to get ahold of you here. Alright, that's one of the main reasons we're here. We're trying to see if it's you that's making all this stuff happen in here. We certainly know you would have a reason to be here.

• 31:49Speaker 10

  Alright, well, let's, we're gonna try to talk to you through this radio.

• 31:56Speaker 10

  What happened two days ago in here?

• 32:01Speaker 10

  Ghosts? Is that what they said? That's what. What did they say to me?

• 32:05Speaker 05

  They said ghosts.

• 32:07Speaker 10

  What happened two days ago in here?

• 32:16Speaker 12

  Alright guys, you want, let's walk around? Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, it seems really quiet in here.

• 32:20Speaker 12

  It does. Let's just walk around and see what happened.

• 32:26Speaker 12

  Can you tell us what spirits are here with us right now?

• 32:32Speaker 06

  Are you afraid of us, Oscar?

• 32:35Speaker 12

  Yes, yes.

• 32:37Speaker 06

  Are you afraid of us, Oscar?

• 32:42Speaker 12

  Yes, yes.

• 32:45Speaker 12

  Who is touching and attacking women here? Paul.

• 32:52Speaker 12

  That's what I heard. Did you hear that? It said Paul. Who is touching and attacking women here? Paul. Paul.

• 33:03Speaker 12

  That's what I heard. Hey, how many spirits, uh, live here at the Mustang Ranch?

• 33:14Speaker 12

  Did you hear that? Hey, how many spirits, uh, live here at the Mustang Ranch?

• 33:23Courtney Brown?

  Over the years, Nick spent a lot of time with the Constantinos. They would film together, do events together, but even off-camera, he grew close to the couple. When he was in town, he would go hang out at their house, spending time with them, and they would frequently talk on the phone. And like with every person you spend time with, Nick began to pick up on how the couple operated.

• 33:47Speaker 05

  Mark was very, um, uh, not monotone. He would get excited if like, he heard a voice coming through or something, but, uh, Debbie was super energetic and like, she was definitely more of, um, the alpha, I should say. She was more the alpha of, you know, and rightfully so. She just had high energy, she was like an Italian, like, you know? It was just her personality, but she was awesome. She was super genuine and nice to me. Uh, same thing with Mark. They were both really, really nice to me and, and both humble and, uh, liked me and we, we got along great. But they, they were, they were very interesting together, um, almost to the point where I should say like toxic.

• 34:30Courtney Brown?

  Which is kind of how a lot of people describe their relationship. Debbie and Mark argued constantly and it didn't matter who was around or what type of professional setting they were in. If one of them was upset, everyone was about to know about it.

• 34:46Speaker 05

  In a relationship, you would almost think that brother sister fighting all the time, like just kind of disliking each other, but loving each other at the same time. That kind of weird, passionate, um, like, yo, you guys shouldn't, like, why are you saying that? That's kind of off the cusp, you know? Uh, very aggressive to each other, like, uh, vocally. Mark was more like subdued, though. Uh, Debbie was very outspoken. So Debbie was just very like, shut up, Mark. You don't know. And Mark would be like, all right, Debbie, come on, stop it. You know, that, that, seriously, that type of stuff all the time, constant.

• 35:16Colin Brown?

  But at the time, Nick didn't think much of it. That's just how some relationships are, he told himself. And Mark and Debbie had been married for over 20 years. So it seemed like that's kind of how they always had been. But through working together on ghost adventures, Nick started growing really close to the couple. He even started working on them, on filming a sizzle reel for a show about their life and their family. Nick was a producer on that project. So not only was he working incredibly closely with the Constantinos, but he was also helping to develop a show centered around their life. So he got to see it all, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

• 35:54Speaker 05

  So I actually pitched Mark and Debbie Constantino and their family, um, with everything they do in their family to this company. We partnered up, all of us, and we, uh, had a crew go off, film everything at their house and film with them for a while and put a whole sizzle reel together that was produced. So, um, yeah, and then that was being pitched around to different networks back then for the cable network. So that's why I got really, really familiar with them and I started learning a lot about their family and seeing them and talking to them and everything.

• 36:24Colin Brown?

  Now, that show never ended up airing, which was disappointing. Nick had put a lot of time and energy into it. And for the Constantinos, I'm sure it was even more disappointing. They had been incredibly excited to film the show, to put their lives out into the world. And after all that work, it just didn't pan out, which actually happens a lot in show business. I've experienced this before. When producers come to you wanting to make a show, they're telling you all these things, oh, we're gonna get the green light. This is gonna happen. You have all these calls. You talk to people, you fly out, you film something. And then, nothing happens. The project just vanishes and people stop calling you. That's honestly a big reason why Courtney and I have always remained independent, because there's a lot of shadiness in the entertainment industry.

• 37:09Colin Brown?

  And even in this case, Nick said that they were just about to get the green light on the show about the Constantinos, but the timing of it all just didn't really work with the network, so it ended up falling through the cracks. But something else that Nick noticed while they were filming and collecting footage for the pilot was that things were very dysfunctional within the Constantino family.

• 37:29Speaker 05

  Being on the like conference calls with them was very argumental. Not with them, but them two together were arguing all the time on the calls. You know, like, "Shut up, no, my turn to talk, no, my turn to talk." Like, it was very like, a lot of that. But everyone else was cool with them and they were super nice to everyone else. But just, um, I was like, "Man, it's just, you know, it's just very toxic in that kind of relationship." I guess it wasn't my place, nor did I like dissect their marriage or them as people. It was more like being a third party, being there, present when someone is telling another person like, "Shut up, stop talking." Like, I don't operate like that with my wife or my family.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  I don't like talk or degrade or, you know, down my significant other. So for me mentally, I was like, "Man, you guys are some rough individuals." Like, maybe that's just your upbringing, maybe that's how you guys are. I don't know, maybe that's how it works. But it just made, it kind of makes you feel uncomfortable at times, or it did for me. But other than that, I just kind of looked away from it. I would have never imagined in my million years, I just thought that's how they were and that's just how they live life and maybe that's how some people are, you know, because you just don't know. But I never imagined that, I just thought, you know, I don't know, I thought that they, it's just weird, it's like, they're together for so long, you think that, okay, they're at like a certain age and they're together and this is just how they'll, and like, they'll be the rest of their life, right?

• 38:55Speaker 05

  Like, older couple, fighting all the time, but loving too.

• 39:01Colin Brown?

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• 39:46Colin Brown?

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• 40:30Speaker 00

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• 41:29Colin Brown?

  Debbie and Mark were known to fight about everything. Their finances, their jobs, exes, you name it. Now, author Janice Oberding, who was actually friends with the couple, said that Debbie was known to be jealous and that Mark could be cruel, especially when it came to Debbie's looks. Debbie was known to speak harshly about Mark's first wife, a woman he had married at 18 and who she believed still wanted him. Now, Janice Oberding also stated that the couple had applied to be on the show Wife Swamp, but they were eventually rejected after the show found out that Debbie had some DUIs in New Jersey. Apparently Debbie had a problem with alcohol, something that contributed to her quick temper.

• 42:08Courtney Brown?

  But despite the problems in their marriage, Debbie and Mark Constantino were very successful. Every time their faces came up on the TV, people loved them. However, the viewers had no idea just how troubled things were behind the scenes. The people who worked with them, though, were well aware. In the fall of 2007, Mark and Debbie were asked to teach an EVP class at a community college. So in order for them to get publicity for the class, local news crew KTVN asked the couple to conduct many investigations to get people interested. So that's what they would do along with their friend Janice Oberding.

• 42:50Courtney Brown?

  But Janice said that after the investigation, on their ride home, the couple argued the entire way. Apparently, Mark complained that Debbie was trying to take all of the spotlight, that she controlled the entire thing and made it all about her. Now, this friend of theirs, Janice, would later tell the Reno Gazette, "They were average people. And just because they believed in the paranormal, that doesn't make them crazy. She could yell and scream and they would fight, but I never saw either of them lift a hand." But clearly, there were things going on behind the scenes. In March of 2014, Debbie was arrested for domestic battery in Reno. According to a KRNV article,

• 43:33Courtney Brown?

  she had cut Mark's arm with a knife after an argument about money. According to Mark's protective order, he said, "She grabbed a knife and swiped at me. I said I would call the cops. She started screaming at me. She went into a bedroom and said that I threatened to rape her, like she usually did. The cops were outside and heard her screaming." And this wasn't the first protective order sought out by Mark. In fact, in July of 2012, he filed an order citing that he was frightened Debbie would stab him while she was intoxicated. But one day later, he ended up dropping that order.

• 44:10Colin Brown?

  Now, that same year, 2014, Nick Groff would actually leave Ghost Adventures. Even though he was a founding member of the show and an integral part of the cast, things just weren't working out anymore with him and his cast members. Now, there's been a lot of speculation about exactly why Nick left the show, what happened there. There have been a lot of different people saying a lot of different things and giving a lot of different explanations. And that's a huge can of worms that we're not really going to open up on this episode. But I'm good friends with a lot of people in the paranormal industry, from Nick Groff to Dakota Layden from Project Fear and their entire crew, the Taps Ghost Hunters team like Steve Gonzalez and Jay.

• 44:52Colin Brown?

  And one of my really good friends who I'm producing a project with at the moment was one of the creators of the show Ghost Hunters. So I myself know the ins and outs of the industry, and let me tell you, I've heard a lot. But we're just gonna leave it at that because that's all that the public really knows right now. But after leaving Ghost Adventures, Nick continued working in the paranormal. He even started his own show called Paranormal Lockdown, but 2014 was a rough year. There had been a lot of negativity surrounding Nick's departure from Ghost Adventures, and he was ready to move on. However, Nick did keep in touch with the Constantinos. And one day, he got a call out of the blue from Debbie. She told him that her marriage was struggling and that she was ready to move on.

• 45:35Speaker 05

  I remember, to fast forward in time, I remember getting a phone call from Debbie. And she talked to me and just said, you know, it's the point where she's so toxic and I want this in life. And I personally just...

• 45:51Speaker 05

  Was I I was off of Ghost Ventures. I wasn't a part of Ghost Ventures anymore. And I was working on making Paranormal Lockdown. And she called me and she had this conversation with me. And I said, Debbie, I'll be honest with you. If you really want to change your life and you want to feel good about it. Because I was going through a lot of shit back then, too. And I wanted to feel good and I want to be positive. And this is my direction. I'm getting away from negativity, right? So I could I could relate to what she was saying without getting personal with her relationship, her life. And I just said, look, it's simple. You want to feel good in life and you want to be positive and move forward with what you want to do, then detach negative things around you and and go for it. Like, go after what you personally want to do. And I'll leave it at that.

• 46:33Speaker 05

  And that conversation we had, and then she, um, I didn't hear from her a bit. And I didn't hear from anyone, but I was so hyper focused on making Paranormal Lockdown that, you know, that's kind of what it became for a little bit. The last event I did with them was my first Nick Roth Tour event at the Mansfield Reformatory in Ohio. I literally convinced them. They weren't working together anymore at that point. They didn't want to do stuff together. But I convinced them to come to the event and be a part of it. I had like everyone there for guests. And they agreed. They said, we both like you. We'll put our differences. And they were cool. They came out. They were cool and they were cordial, but they were still bickering. We went out to dinner together. Um, you know, I just, I still saw it.

• 47:15Speaker 05

  Wow, this is, I don't know, this is getting out of control, kind of toxic. And that was kind of the last event I did with them.

• 47:21Courtney Brown?

  But August of 2015 is when things started to get really bad for the Constantinos. It was July 7th. On that day, Debbie got a text from Mark saying that their dog had escaped from their yard. Now Debbie was a huge animal lover, so she immediately made her way home. But when she pulled up to their house, Mark had allegedly pulled her out of the car and started beating her. Sadly, their 23 year old daughter Raquel also participated in the beating. Debbie had been beaten so brutally, it was reported that her nose had been broken. She also later stated that Mark had pulled her into their house and attempted to strangle her.

• 48:04Courtney Brown?

  He squeezed hard enough that she almost passed out. Debbie said that during the assault, he also threatened to slit her throat. Now from there, the police were called. And Mark was ultimately arrested and charged with first degree kidnapping, first degree domestic battery, and domestic battery by strangulation. Their daughter Raquel was also arrested and charged with first degree battery and first degree burglary. So as you can see, things had gotten really bad. Following this incident, Debbie even called up Nick to update him on everything that was going on.

• 48:39Speaker 05

  And then I get a phone call, and it's Debbie again. And she tells me that um, she was coming back to her house with her friend, and all of a sudden, Mark and um, I think their daughter were there, something like that. And uh, he confronted her in the driveway. And she said, this was her exact words to me on the phone. She said that he grabbed her by the neck and threw her to the ground, was strangling her. And she said his eyes went black like he was possessed by the devil, is what she told me. And she said, I, I did, like, I was like screaming for my life, and her friend was being attacked. And then he, she said something, and he like let go or something, she said to me.

• 49:22Speaker 05

  And then, you know, she like scrabbled away. And then the police came and arrested Mark for domestic abuse, which you probably heard of after the fact on the news and whatever, what happened. And um, that was her, that's what she told me. And I say, I said Debbie, that, like, I didn't know what to think because I knew Debbie for a long time, like, she used to talk um, kind of like that, like, like, not like, I don't know, not like um, losing your mind, but just like, oh my God, this and that, and this and that, you know? And it's just kind of like, I just said, look, I, I really can't get involved in any of this stuff right now. Like, what are you telling me? I sympathize for you, I'm sorry, like.

• 50:03Speaker 05

  And she was just worried and she was just talking to me and then I just, I kinda just talked a little bit more and I listened to her and I let her go and that was it. I moved on like, holy shit, I can't get involved with this right now. Whatever's happening in your life, I don't, I don't wanna be a part of anything like negative. I just got away from negative. I'm trying to do good things and bigger things and like, that's all I need right now to be a part of something like this.

• 50:25Colin Brown?

  Now, while Mark and their daughter Raquel were in jail, Debbie decided to move out of their home, which seemed to be the best move considering how toxic things had gotten for their family. And from there, she actually moved in with some friends of hers who were named Summer Myers and Jimmy Anderson. Debbie ended up crashing on the couch, but for her, this was a much better situation. Debbie also decided to file a protective order against Mark and Raquel. And she finally filed for divorce after 26 years of marriage. In her filing, she stated, quote, "Mark ripped me out of the car and dragged me into the house like a rag doll. If the police had not gotten there in time, I absolutely would have been dead. He said, 'I am the devil and I'm going to slit your

• 51:07Colin Brown?

  throat.' I noticed his work razor had been missing." End quote. After years of domestic violence on both sides, Debbie realized she didn't want to continue living that life. She wanted to build a career on her own. In the filing, Debbie accused Mark of controlling every aspect of her life and draining all of their financial accounts. There was also a rumor that Mark was addicted to prescription drugs, something that contributed to their financial decline. She also wanted complete control of their business, Spirit speak. Now, eventually, her husband Mark and daughter Raquel were released on bail. Raquel's bail was $30,000 and Mark's was $40,000. And when Debbie found out about this, she was immediately

• 51:48Colin Brown?

  afraid for her life. She knew what her husband was capable of. And not only had he just gone to jail, but he was also about to learn that Debbie was leaving him for good, something she knew he would not take lightly. And it's around this time when she called up Nick again.

• 52:03Speaker 05

  And then she calls me and she, a while later, and she says, Nick, I just want to call you and tell you that Mark's probably been getting out of jail. I'm like, uh, okay. I really didn't even know he was in jail or anything that was going on after that. I forgot about it. I just thought it was a thing and like life is going on. And she starts telling me that, um, Mark's getting out of jail. And I said, okay. And she goes, if he calls you, please do not tell him where I am. And I said, Debbie, I have no clue where you are right now. So just don't tell me where you are. And I'm, if he calls me, I don't know. I really don't know. So I, I don't know. And I keep telling you, I can't get involved. I don't know what's going on or what's happening.

• 52:46Speaker 05

  I know you're calling like, I guess as a friend at this point. And I'm like, and she goes, no, I understand. I just want you to know. Thank you so much. Like, you know, you've been great and working with you and all this stuff. It's been crazy, but she's like, I did it. I finally got my life together. I moved on. I moved away. I'm like going in a positive direction. I'm in a positive place. So like, if he calls you, just don't like say, mention anything like I called you or anything. I go, no, I, I won't. I have no clue. So, that's awesome. I'm happy for you that you're doing positive and you're doing good. And that's what she was. She really meant it. She like, she sounded different in her tone. She just said, I've moved on and I'm moving on right now. And I said, I'm really happy for you. That's awesome. I'm doing the same. I got this great thing that I'm working on.

• 53:29Speaker 05

  She's like, that's so cool. She started talking to me about some other stuff, about the network and what happened to me and all the other stuff that you probably heard about what I posted online, about, you know, um, being like on my show, Ghost Adventures and moving on, doing Paramount Lockdown and what happened to me and how I was kind of done wrong. She was like supporting me on the phone, like saying, I, I've always believed in you. You always were good and I know the truth. And that's what she told me. I knew the truth with what everything happened here and I support you and I'll still support you. Yeah. And that's the last I talked to Debbie.

• 54:01Courtney Brown?

  It's also around this time when Debbie got into contact with her life coach named Rebecca Evans. According to Rebecca, in the last few months of Deborah's life, she was just trying to survive. Rebecca would later say, quote, "It was a slow buildup." And I don't think in the beginning of their relationship, they had those kind of problems. The years rolled on, and she said the domestic issues progressed. "I was really scared for her," end quote. Then, about a week before her death, Deborah called her life coach for the last time. Rebecca said, quote, "She called me and she told me, 'I'm living on a couch, but I don't care.'" She said, "I'm so happy."

• 54:44Courtney Brown?

  But even after this phone call, Rebecca was worried about her. She would later say that she always wondered, quote, "What's gonna happen to this girl?" But in their last conversation, Rebecca said that she was happy that Debbie had finally found some peace. Rebecca would later say, quote, "She had hope the last time I saw her. She had hope when she left, and we talked about all of the things that we could do," end quote. However, Rebecca had no idea that this would be their very last conversation. Now, like we mentioned, Debbie had called Nick to let him know what was going on, and that if Mark called, he was not supposed to tell him where she was located. But shortly after this call from Debbie, Nick said that he was pretty surprised to see

• 55:29Courtney Brown?

  that he was getting a call from Mark.

• 55:32Speaker 05

  I get a phone call, and it's Mark. And Mark calls me, um, I forget exactly when it was, I think the next day? Or so, the next two days or so, Mark calls me and says, "Hey, Nick, how's it going?" I said, "Good, what's up, Mark? How's everything?" And he was just matter-of-fact about everything, just really chill. And I said, and he starts talking to me, oh, you know, this and that. I didn't know what to believe at this point, cuz just how Mark came off, it was just like, "No, no, everything, like, it's just, it's been rough and this and that." And, and I didn't know if it was like... I don't know, like an argument that they had and something that they had. Cause you know, I'm not there.

• 56:15Speaker 05

  I'm just hearing from two different people what's going on. And the way Mark comes off was just matter of fact and chill and, you know, like this is just the stuff that's happening. So I, it's just one of those things, you know? I'm like third party on the outside, not really truly knowing like factual stuff that's happening. So I'm hearing these two people and Mark's telling me, and I said the same thing to Mark. I said, Mark, look, I, I'm just gonna tell you right now, I can't get involved in like whatever's going on. Like, and he's like, no, no, I, I know you can't. And I was just calling you, I just wanna tell you the thank you, man. Thank you for always just being, you're a good person, you're, you're supportive. Uh, everything we've done our whole life, thank you. I know you can't get involved, it's okay, it, it's fine.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  And I said, and, and, but thinking back, I think he was looking to pry on information to see if I knew where Debbie was in the conversation. But he knew I didn't, so we just talked and I was quick to cut it down with like, I don't wanna be involved, so, and your relationship or your issues or whatever was happening? And that's kinda it, and he just stopped and he said, uh, just, it was weird, it's almost like he was saying goodbye to me in a weird way. He just like, thank you, man, and, uh, almost like I'm glad I, I knew you and thank you, and you were always a good person and, um, take care. That's all he said to me. I had no clue, you know, I wish I would've known, so I would've said something.

• 57:43Courtney Brown?

  Nick had no idea that about 24 hours after hanging up the phone with Mark Constantino, that he would go on a killing spree. Over the last month of his life, Mark had lost control of everything. After getting arrested, he had lost his reputation, his wife, his money, and his career. And to add insult to injury, Debbie was clearly moving on with her life. After filing for divorce, she was posting on her social media and she looked really happy. She posted pictures with friends, getting her nails done. And living her life to the fullest, but not Mark. For weeks, he sat alone at his home in Reno, Nevada, spiraling.

• 58:27Courtney Brown?

  On Facebook, he vented that Debbie had taken all of her belongings out of the house, but left the ashes of their six-month-old daughter behind. He wrote, quote, "How the fuck can someone do that?" End quote. Now eventually, he even moved out of their house and went to stay with their daughter Raquel. I guess being in their home was too much for him. And everyone could tell that Mark was struggling, but no one expected what would come next. Which brings us to September 22nd, 2015. Like we mentioned, Debbie had been telling everyone to keep her new address hidden from Mark. She feared for her life. But the one thing that kept her at peace was that Mark had no idea where she was.

• 59:12Courtney Brown?

  However, that would soon change. It's unclear who gave Mark Debbie's location. But Nick said that he was told it was a friend of theirs. And once Mark figured out the address, he grabbed his gun and made his way over. Inside the house at the time was Debbie and one of her roommates, 55-year-old Jimmy Anderson. Their other roommate Summer Myers was luckily at her boyfriend's house at the time. But as Mark pulled up to the house that day, he was full of rage. Now it's unclear exactly what happened next. We don't know if someone opened the door, or if Mark barged his way inside. But we do know that the garage door was left open, so perhaps he entered the house that way.

• 59:57Courtney Brown?

  But upon entering the residence, Mark would first encounter Jimmy Anderson. He then pointed his gun at him and pulled the trigger.

• 1:00:07Courtney Brown?

  Jimmy Anderson had been shot directly in the head. And he died right there in the hallway of his home. And it should be stated here that it's very likely that Debbie witnessed the entire thing. In the past, Debbie had claimed in interviews that when Mark was angry, he would have this darkness come over him, that his eyes would turn black. And I can imagine in that moment, Debbie saw just that. She likely feared that after murdering Jimmy, that Mark would then turn the gun on her. But strangely enough, that's not what would happen, at least not at that moment. After murdering Jimmy, Mark would actually kidnap Debbie. He forced her into his car and started driving back to their daughter's apartment.

• 1:00:52Courtney Brown?

  And I can't help but think about what was said along that drive. I can imagine that Debbie was pleading with him to spare her life. She might have even told him exactly what she thought he wanted to hear. "We can get back together, we can talk about things." But Mark was angrier than ever. Once they got back to their daughter's apartment, Debbie was forced inside. Their daughter Raquel wasn't home at the time and the only other person who knew Debbie was in danger was Jimmy Anderson, and he had just been shot dead. So at that time, no one knew where Debbie was, and no one was coming to save her.

• 1:01:30Colin Brown?

  Hours later, at around 6:30 a.m., Debbie's other roommate Summer had finally come back home after spending the night at her boyfriend's house. However, as she pulled up, she saw something strange. Their garage door was open, and the lights to the house were still on. Now, this immediately stuck out to Summer because Debbie was very good about locking up the home at night and turning out all of the lights. But nonetheless, she parked her car and made her way inside. However, seconds later, she would come across an absolutely horrific scene. There, in the hallway of their home, was the body of her roommate, Jimmy Anderson. He was lying in a pool of blood with a single gunshot wound to the head. Horrified, Summer quickly ran out of her house and called 911.

• 1:02:15Colin Brown?

  But immediately, she knew exactly who was responsible. Mark Constantino. Debbie had confided in Summer about how she feared her estranged husband. And it seemed as though Debbie's fears had come true. Now, Summer didn't even go into the house to look for Debbie because she didn't know if Mark was still in there or what. But soon enough, the police would arrive. During their sweep of the home, they didn't find Debbie or Mark. They found cigarette butts, empty wine glasses, a bottle of vodka on the kitchen counter, and of course, the body of Jimmy Anderson. So their next course of action was to track down the Constantinos. Now, the police already knew this couple's history, so like Summer, they also feared for Debbie's safety.

• 1:02:59Colin Brown?

  Luckily, they were quickly able to find Debbie's location by looking at her cellphone records. And from here, the police made their way to the courtside apartments about seven miles away at 1115th Street.

• 1:03:11Courtney Brown?

  Nearby this apartment was a high school. And since this was a potential hostage situation, the school was put on lockdown and a SWAT team surrounded the apartment complex. But as they did, they heard the sound of three gunshots. Mark then yelled out to law enforcement, "Give me 15 minutes to gather my thoughts, or I'll kill her." For the next three hours, Mark would go back and forth with negotiators. They did everything they could to get him to release Debbie, but Mark wasn't complying. Little did they know, however, that Debbie was already dead. Mark had already, at this point, shot her in the face two times.

• 1:03:55Courtney Brown?

  So for those three hours, he had been sitting by her body, trying to figure out what to do next. I'm sure he wrestled with the decision of whether to turn himself in or to kill himself. And ultimately, he chose the latter. Shortly before 1:30 PM, the SWAT team outside of the apartment heard a single gunshot. And from there, Mark Constantino was no longer responding to them. And to their dismay, when they called out for Debbie Constantino, she wasn't answering them either. So at 1:30 PM, the SWAT team used explosives to gain entry into the apartment. And it's there where they found the bodies of Mark and Debbie Constantino.

• 1:04:38Colin Brown?

  By the end of the day, Mark Constantino had taken the lives of Jimmy Anderson, Debbie Constantino, and then killed himself. And word spread quickly about the brutal murder-suicide.

• 1:04:56Speaker 13

  As SWAT teams tried to bring an end to a hostage situation today, they found it had already come to a deadly conclusion. But that's just part of the story. We'll break it all down for you, plus dig deeper into the past of the couple at the center of it all, including much happier times when they appeared together right here on Channel 2 News. Well, we've been working the crime beat all day, and tonight we have team coverage for you. Amanda Ketchlitch has obtained court documents and will tell us about the violent history between the family. But we want to start with Ryan Kennedy, who was at the scene all day. Ryan, today's events all started when a man was found dead inside a North Reno home, right?

• 1:05:31Speaker 14

  Yeah, that's right, Ari. Early this morning, the Reno Police Department responded to a North Reno home where a woman found one of her two roommates dead from gunshot wounds. When police got there, they learned that a third roommate, Debbie Constantino, was missing, and her estranged husband, Mark Constantino, may be the suspect.

• 1:05:50Speaker 15

  The target apartment that we're looking at today, that we've been out here on, does belong to their child in common.

• 1:05:55Speaker 14

  Police say this is where Mark Constantino took his estranged wife Debbie against her will after allegedly killing her roommate. Officers were able to locate both Mark and Debbie by pinging their cellphones, bringing officers to the courtside Garden Apartments in Sparks. Investigators tell me, when they tried to talk to Mark, the situation turned violent.

• 1:06:17Speaker 15

  At that point, we heard shots were fired from inside. A male voice told us to leave.

• 1:06:24Speaker 14

  Police set up a perimeter and waited for both Reno and Spark SWAT teams to arrive. They were able to get a hold of Mark on the phone, and through negotiations, found out Debbie was also inside the apartment and being held hostage.

• 1:06:37Speaker 16

  The major focus of that conversation was for everyone to come out and for this to end peacefully and nobody to get hurt.

• 1:06:44Speaker 14

  After several hours of attempting to get Constantino to surrender, the SWAT teams stormed the apartment.

• 1:06:54Speaker 16

  The SWAT team's plan to make entry was applied at that time, and two people were found deceased in the apartment. We'll make sure we do the absolute best investigation we can for the families involved. Obviously, there's a lot of folks impacted this, by this, and this is a huge tragedy for a lot of people. It's horrible. It's horrible.

• 1:07:15Speaker 14

  And the Sparks Police Department say no officers shot any rounds, and no one else was injured by gunfire when they did enter into the apartment. Investigators continue to work on determining the cause of death of the man in North Reno, as well as Debbie and Mark Constantino. Covering crime beat, live in the newsroom, Ryan Kennedy, Channel 2 News.

• 1:07:33Speaker 13

  Okay, Ryan, thank you for that. Well, let's bring Amanda Katschlich into the conversation now. Amanda, the couple was featured on Channel 2 several years ago, but court records show they have quite a violent history as well.

• 1:07:43Speaker 17

  That's right, Ari. We first met Mark and Debbie Constantino back in 2007. They were both paranormal investigators, specializing in EVP, electronic voice phenomena, or ghost voices on tape. But according to court records, their relationship turned violent earlier this year.

• 1:08:01Speaker 09

  Do you still spend time with Marilyn?

• 1:08:03Speaker 17

  This is video we shot with Mark and Debbie Constantino back in 2007. We met up with them several times as they attempted to speak to ghosts through Nevada and across the country.

• 1:08:13Speaker 08

  Back the lights out. They don't look late.

• 1:08:16Speaker 17

  Their website, SpiritsSpeak.com, shows the couple and their numerous nationwide visits to different conventions. But how the couple appeared on camera and at events was dramatically different from the picture painted by recently obtained court records. In March of this year, Debbie Constantino was arrested at a home in North Reno. According to the records, she and Mark were fighting over money when she scratched him. It escalated, and she allegedly sliced his arm with a kitchen knife. She was charged with domestic violence and battery with a deadly weapon. She was never able to have her day in court. Then, just six weeks ago, Mark, along with their daughter Raquel, allegedly went to a home, pulled Debbie out of a car by the neck, and then dragged her inside. Documents accuse Raquel and Mark of beating

• 1:09:00Speaker 17

  Debbie to the point of breaking her nose and causing bleeding. Records say Mark then strangled her, causing her to nearly pass out. Raquel was charged with kidnapping, domestic battery, battery and vehicle burglary. Mark was charged with kidnapping, domestic battery by strangulation, and domestic battery.

• 1:09:19Speaker 17

  We also heard from many of you on our social media sites asking why Mark Constantino was let out of jail after being accused of kidnapping Debbie. In these court documents we obtained, it showed that kidnapping is usually a no-bail charge, but in this case, both Mark and Raquel were granted bail by a local judge. Mark's bail was set at $40,000, which was allowed to be paid by bond, and Raquel was set at $30,000, also bondable. Both Raquel and Mark, though, were ordered to stay away from Debbie Constantino. Covering crime beat, live in the studio, Amanda Ketchledge, Channel 2 News.

• 1:09:51Speaker 13

  All right, Amanda, thank you, and be sure to stay with Channel 2 News as this story develops.

• 1:09:57Colin Brown?

  Surprisingly, following the murders, the couple's daughter Raquel actually took to Facebook to defend her father's actions, saying that her father was in heaven and her mother was burning in hell where she belonged. This, of course, caused a lot of backlash. Despite what Raquel thought of her mother, Mark had taken Debbie's life and the life of Jimmy Anderson. Nothing, absolutely nothing, could justify that. And sadly, Jimmy Anderson was an innocent person who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, which isn't even the right phrase to use. He was at his house, a place where he should have been safe. And sadly, there isn't a lot of information out there about him.

• 1:10:38Colin Brown?

  His friend Victor would later tell Channel 2 News, Jimmy was the nicest guy you could have ever met. At the time of the murders, Jimmy knew that Debbie was in danger, that she feared for her life. So being the person he was, he had opened up his home to her and given her a safe place to stay. Victor would later say, Jimmy was a champion for what was right, and he got killed because he was doing what he thought was right. Our hearts go out to Jimmy and his loved ones. Now, following the murders, on October 17, 2015, on what would have been Debbie's 53rd birthday, her funeral was held at the Our Mother of Sorrows Chapel in Reno. Her former colleagues on Ghost Adventures would take to social media to pay their respects. Zach Baggins tweeted, "A very tragic, dark day.

• 1:11:23Colin Brown?

  R.I.P. Constantinos." And Nick Groff wrote, "This is such a terrible tragedy." But Nick, talk to us about how he found out about the murders.

• 1:11:32Speaker 05

  I found out by watching the news and finding out, it was all over social media and the news, I was like, holy shit. I literally just talked to them the last couple of days, both of them, back to back.

• 1:11:44Colin Brown?

  Nick also said that despite the obvious problems that he had witnessed within the Constantino's marriage, he never could have imagined it would have ended this way.

• 1:11:53Speaker 05

  I can't believe that it went this far.

• 1:12:00Speaker 05

  I just never could have imagined that he would cross that line and take her life. And I think what went through my head so weirdly and bizarre, because I'm a very empath and I knew them very well. We would investigate a lot together, on and off camera, for TV and not, and just, you know, together. And they would get a lot of negative disembodied voices, EVPs, a lot of negative like swearing words, all sorts of stuff. And I would always say, man, I feel like there's a lot of negativity surrounding you guys more so than the hauntings itself. And maybe that's a lot of like imprinted EVPs occurring.

• 1:12:44Speaker 05

  And I just felt that in my head, when I found out of the horrible tragic event that happened, that what was Mark saying to her and what were they talking about before? Because I know he took her life first and then took his, like what, like to get to that stage, I'll never fully understand with my consciousness, you know, taking someone else's life, especially someone who you loved and adored, because I know they did at a point, but like so toxic to be the point where you just lose the mentality, the darkness, the negativity to let it encompass you all these years of like investigating, you know, negative hauntings?

• 1:13:28Speaker 05

  Did that overtake the mentality of like just slipping into this like kind of demonic phase? Not saying it has anything to do with that, but you have to wonder how negative your mentality has to be in a mental illness space to just cross that line as a human being to take someone who you adore and obsess about and just, you know, take their soul right out of the human body? And I think that is more frightening to me, knowing the mentality how humans can be. And I think it's just, there's a lot of evil that walks on this earth.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  You know, knowing them both very, very well and personally, I just like, I'm like, "Man, like, Mark, I knew you. Like, I never knew it could end up like this." You know, I wish they would just walk away. I think he did it out of anger and craziness, and he was so obsessive with like, "Debbie, you're not leaving me. This is like, you know, our 'til death we're apart marriage." And I think that was the mentality of like, his going into this, searching her down, just like controlling and obsessing and staying. And it's just sickening, thinking back on what happened, because knowing that Debbie moved on, she was trying to push forward in life, and then knowing what happened, and Mark just couldn't move on, let go,

• 1:14:54Speaker 05

  and it's just, it's just really, really fucked up, you know?

• 1:14:58Colin Brown?

  This murder-suicide was devastating for the paranormal community. For years, the Constantinos had become huge names in the industry, and people had really grown to love them. But this was also a big reality check for their fans. On the outside looking in, the Constantinos appeared to be a beautiful couple. A couple who got to work together, doing what they loved. A couple who appeared on the outside to be incredibly happy. But clearly, that just wasn't the case. Which goes to show, no matter how much you think you know someone based on what they put out online, the reality is, you're only seeing a portion of their life. You really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. And in the case of Debbie and Mark Constantino, despite their fame and notoriety, there was clearly trouble.

• 1:15:43Colin Brown?

  And no one ever expected that their lives would end in such a tragic way. Being a fan of Ghost Adventures from the very beginning, I remember seeing this news and being absolutely floored. Mark and Debbie Constantino. I had seen them on the show Ghost Adventures so many times at that point, laughing, enjoying the investigations, being so involved. And it was just an absolute shock. When you watch someone on television and you watch them do things over and over and make all these appearances on a show that you love, you feel like you grow to know them. You feel like they almost become someone that you know in real life. So, when I heard this news and I saw these announcements, once again, I was just shocked.

• 1:16:25Colin Brown?

  And eerily, I actually found this clip from a YouTube channel by the name of The Demon Files, which claims to show the very last EVP session that Mark and Debbie ever recorded before the murder-suicide. In this clip, they're conducting an EVP session, attempting to catch the voice of a spirit on camera. And what they ended up recording was incredibly chilling.

• 1:16:48Speaker 10

  Do you know what it is that resides in our house and how to deal with it?

• 1:17:01Speaker 06

  Whoa, what the hell was that? I don't know, but you're asking about what's in our house.

• 1:17:07Speaker 10

  Oh, God, I don't want to do it anymore.

• 1:17:12Speaker 06

  Oh, dude.

• 1:17:14Speaker 10

  Fuck this.

• 1:17:15Speaker 06

  One more time. Oh, shit.

• 1:17:23Speaker 10

  My God.

• 1:17:24Speaker 06

  That's... That gives me the chills. See?

• 1:17:26Speaker 10

  It's right after I said, "Do you know what resides in our house and how to deal with it?"

• 1:17:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Speaker 10

  Fuck that, Mark. How the hell do we even get rid of it?

• 1:17:38Courtney Brown?

  But 10 years after the deaths of Jimmy Anderson and Mark and Debbie Constantino, Ghost Adventures would be in the media once again, this time involving conspiracy to commit murder. So, let's rewind a bit, all the way back to the birth of Ghost Adventures. Like we mentioned earlier, around 2007, Nick Groff decided that he and Zach Baggins were going to film at haunted locations around America, and he invited Aaron Goodwin to come along with them. Soon enough, the trio would be widely known across the world. But in the beginning, Aaron Goodwin wasn't sure if this was the right path for him. This industry can be dark. And Aaron said that for a while,

• 1:18:23Courtney Brown?

  he felt like some of that darkness was following him into his everyday life. At the time, he was married to a woman named Sheena. And when he would leave for filming, scary things would start happening around their home. Posters flying off the walls, the toilet seat mysteriously going up on its own. It was scary. And being the wife of a ghost hunter myself, I've had similar experiences. But despite everything, Aaron decided to stick with it.

• 1:18:52Colin Brown?

  Now Aaron and Sheena would eventually divorce, and Aaron would later claim that his life as a ghost hunter partly contributed to their separation. In a 2011 interview, Aaron admitted, "For the first couple of seasons, I was scared and couldn't figure out if I really wanted to do this. And the stuff that followed me home would mess with me and my ex-wife and family and friends, everyone around me and my home. So after getting used to it for two years, you kind of realize that if they were going to hurt you, they would have hurt you." And if anyone told Aaron that ghost hunting was cool and that they wanted to do it too, he always made sure to warn them back then. He said, "There is definitely a price to pay. When people say, 'Hey, that looks like fun, I want to get into ghost hunting,' I say, 'Don't. Live your normal life.

• 1:19:37Colin Brown?

  Don't do what we do. There are consequences to it all. Some people can handle it, but a lot of people who come to these live events with us are traumatized for life by the things that happen. They just aren't used to it." Now, like we mentioned, in 2014, Nick Groff would leave Ghost Adventures to work on his own projects. So from there, Ghost Adventures was just Zach Baggins and Aaron Goodwin, along with fellow investigators Billy Tolly and Jay Wozley. On the side, Aaron ventured into other projects like opening his own clothing line. But in 2017, everything would change when he met a woman named Victoria. According to People Magazine, before Victoria met Aaron, she was a collegiate golfer who had dreams of playing the sport professionally.

• 1:20:20Colin Brown?

  In a December 2024 interview on the Motivational Talks with Ash podcast, Victoria stated that she had been diagnosed with a condition called "accolasia," a condition that makes it hard to swallow. And this really affected her life. It even put her golf career on hold because for years, doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. But eventually, she got a diagnosis, and from there, she became an advocate for chronic illnesses. In 2022, she posted a photo of several surgical scars on her Instagram page with the caption that read, "My heart goes out to my fellow achalasia cardio spasm warriors and all those dealing with chronic illnesses and PTSD. I went two years without answers, medical gaslighting and misdiagnosis. Awareness matters."

• 1:21:06Courtney Brown?

  Now as for Victoria and Aaron, the two started off as friends, but over time, their friendship blossomed into a relationship. And in August of 2018, they finally made it official. On his Instagram page, Aaron posted a photo of the two holding hands with the caption that read, quote, "We have been friends and there for each other in tough times over the years. Now we realize it's bigger than that," end quote. On October 29th, 2019, Aaron posted another photo of Victoria at Disneyland's castle with a black halo ring in front of her with the caption, quote, "She said yes." Now on the Ghost Adventures Reddit fan page, fans congratulated the couple, but some were

• 1:21:51Courtney Brown?

  suspicious. One user wrote, quote, "Too bad she cheated on her boyfriend with Aaron. Sad to say, she's only with him for his money," end quote. Now, anytime you're a public figure, people are going to have their opinions on your significant other, especially when you've built your fanbase up for years. I remember when Colin and I first started dating, people hated me. But eventually, they came around, and I kind of learned that that's just how it goes when you share your life online, which seemed to be the case for Aaron and Victoria. Although many of Aaron's fans supported him and their relationship, Victoria seemed to have a lot of haters.

• 1:22:33Colin Brown?

  Throughout their relationship, users posted anonymously on a Tumblr account titled "The Return of the Dirty Blog," accusing Victoria of cheating on her boyfriend after messaging Aaron through Instagram. One anonymous post on the blog even stated that Victoria allegedly had a private Instagram page titled "Psychotic Princess Kitten," where she posted provocative BDSM photographs of herself. One image allegedly showed her holding a knife to her neck with the caption, "I love playing with knives, daddy. #BlondesHaveMoreFun. #SuckerForPain." And disturbingly, # Lolita. Now, just a quick side note, Lolita and lollies, that is a very disturbing phenomenon that

• 1:23:14Colin Brown?

  associates sexual attraction with underaged people, if you get what I'm saying. Lolita being the famous novel about an older man. Basically becoming obsessed with a young girl, it was famously adapted into a film by Stanley Kubrick. And then on top of that, obviously, everybody knows that Jeffrey Epstein's plane was nicknamed the Lolita Express. So, I just gotta say, when I saw that hashtag there, I was pretty disturbed, honestly. Another photo allegedly showed Victoria without underwear with a unicorn emoji covering herself. And the caption of that post read, "Property of Daddy."

• 1:23:53Colin Brown?

  Once again, disturbingly, #Lolita, #Nymphet, #DaddyAF, #DaddyKink, #Daddy'sLittleDemon. On September 10th, 2018, an anonymous post said, "So here's the tea on me confronting Victoria. Back in June when I discovered this blog, I love it by the way, I got to learn a little bit about Victoria/Lolita, and her and Aaron have this sugar daddy, sugar baby relationship going on. I'm also the person who got into her bondage page. She was a dumbass for accepting my request. Anyways, I messaged her and I told her she's only using Aaron for his money, trips to Disney and Universal. There's a lot more to the story."

• 1:24:32Courtney Brown?

  A lot of these users believe that Victoria was just using Aaron for his money, but others defended their relationship. One user wrote, quote, "You guys should really leave Victoria and Aaron alone. I get it if you guys don't like her. There is obviously things that aren't great about her, but keep those feelings to yourself and let Aaron be happy. He's a very nice person that deserves to be with someone at this stage of life. And he picked Victoria. That's his choice. Messaging her family is fucked up and way out of line. The blog shouldn't condone that." End quote.

• 1:25:07Colin Brown?

  But despite the controversy and gossip surrounding their union, Aaron and Victoria appeared to be extremely happy. Pictures of them together on their social media show them smiling and seemingly in love. Here's a video Aaron posted on October 18th, 2020, of he and Victoria together during the COVID-19 lockdown.

• 1:25:27Speaker 06

  Okay, I'm recording. What do you want to say?

• 1:25:30Speaker 18

  I think I know what happened to all your hair.

• 1:25:34Speaker 06

  What the fuck?

• 1:25:37Speaker 18

  Why? Why? It's all these years of ghost hunting, it got scared off. Oh my god! What the fuck?

• 1:25:49Colin Brown?

  Now, due to COVID-19, the couple claimed that they had to postpone their wedding. But finally, in 2022, they tied the knot. Aaron posted several photographs on their wedding day, literally taken at Disneyland's haunted mansion. With the caption, "It finally happened. We got married. After postponing many times due to COVID, we got our day. I couldn't be happier." However, in later documents, it was revealed that Aaron and Victoria had gotten secretly married on May 4, 2020. But in 2022, we're finally able to celebrate with a ceremony. But aside from being a famous couple, Aaron and Victoria appeared to live pretty normal lives. Together, the couple even adopted a cat they named Dodger.

• 1:26:31Colin Brown?

  Aaron wrote on his social media that Dodger was actually a stray who snuck into their house one day. And from that moment on, he wouldn't leave Victoria's side, so they decided to keep him. They also had a dog named Moose and two rats named Pascal and Rapunzel. And by all accounts, the two were happily married. On his social media, Aaron referred to Victoria as his best friend and soulmate.

• 1:26:55Speaker 18

  You got this, babe. I don't like it. I might throw up. It's a haunted house. I don't want it. She's definitely afraid of haunted houses, but at least it's not real ghosts. Well, there are real ghosts in here, actually. Ah, no! Send help!

• 1:27:09Speaker 18

  No! Stay there! No!

• 1:27:14Speaker 18

  You're okay, hon. I'm so scared! Wait, this one's good. No, no, no! Cam video, if you don't let go of my hand. No, I'm not gonna let go. Ow!

• 1:27:27Speaker 18

  If this is where I die, come back and investigate me, okay? You're walking too fast, hon. We gotta enjoy this.

• 1:27:38Speaker 18

  Well, just go past. Oh, now you let go! You are shaking. Are you kidding?

• 1:27:47Speaker 18

  I'm literally gonna crap my pants.

• 1:27:51Speaker 18

  Oh, no. You got it. You got it. You got it. Proud of you, hon. I'm freaking out.

• 1:28:02Speaker 18

  I'm sweating so bad.

• 1:28:05Speaker 18

  My arm hurts. My hand. I think you crushed it. I might need a...

• 1:28:07Speaker 18

  We're at the red level midnight right now. Feel my heartbeat? Oh my god. I am terrified.

• 1:28:20Speaker 18

  You made it, hon!

• 1:28:20Speaker 18

  I'm finally free! Proud of you!

• 1:28:25Speaker 18

  I did it!

• 1:28:27Courtney Brown?

  Fans of Aaron's would even comment on his pictures that he seemed happier than ever. And maybe that was the case for him. But it's safe to say that his wife Victoria was not happy in her marriage. Because unbeknownst to Aaron, Victoria had a secret pimp pal named Grant Amato, a man who was in prison for brutally murdering his entire family.

• 1:28:50Colin Brown?

  Grant Amato grew up in Chuluauda, Florida, with his brother Cody and his parents Chad and Margaret. Both of his parents worked in the medical field, so they had a very privileged life. And both Cody and Grant decided to follow in their parents' footsteps. The brothers both studied nursing at the University of Central Florida. Cody would go on to work as a nursed anesthesist at Orlando Regional Medical Center, and Grant took a nursing job at Advent Health Orlando. From the outside looking in, they seemed like a very successful family, who all worked in the medical field. But Grant Amato would soon get into some trouble. While on the job, he was suspected of stealing prescription medications. He was also accused of illegally administering the drug Probafol to patients, which is a powerful anesthetic.

• 1:29:35Colin Brown?

  So, they fired him. Following his termination, it was reported that Grant became really depressed. And to distract himself from everything, he started spending a lot of time online. Then one day, he saw an advertisement for My Free Cams, and he decided to click it. It ended up taking him to a pornographic website. And while there, he came across the account of a Bulgarian woman named Sylvia Sylvie Venceslavova, who went by the name Addie Sweet.

• 1:30:03Courtney Brown?

  Upon seeing Sylvie, Grant was immediately attracted to her. He wanted to get to know her more. But in order to talk to these girls online, you have to pay them. After all, this is their career. So Grant ended up sending her some money, and from there, they started a conversation. Following this, Grant felt a connection to Sylvie. In such a depressing time in his life, she brought him some happiness. So over the next few months, he continued to pay her for her time. During their conversations, Grant lied to Sylvie about many aspects of his life. He told her he drove a BMW, that he lived alone, and that he was a successful gamer on Twitch.

• 1:30:46Courtney Brown?

  But in reality, Grant drove a Honda, lived with his parents, and he was unemployed. But to keep up with these appearances, Grant continued to lavish Sylvie with money and gifts. In order to have a private conversation with her, he had to purchase these tokens. And at times, he would buy around 600 tokens in a single night. Each of these tokens were about a dollar, so there were nights when he spent $600 just to talk to her. But in his mind, he and Sylvie had a special connection. Grant was in love. However, Sylvie obviously didn't feel the same. And after a while, Grant started asking her to send pictures and videos free of charge.

• 1:31:30Speaker 19

  I'm asking you, if you can please send me one of your videos? I don't like buying your stuff, it makes me feel weird. Could you please send me one, though?

• 1:31:40Courtney Brown?

  But obviously Sylvie wasn't okay with that. She wasn't talking to Grant because she liked him. She was talking to him because that's her job. It's how she made her living. So she wasn't going to give him anything for free. But this was a problem for Grant. He didn't have a lot of money to spend because he was unemployed. So soon enough, he started stealing money from his parents and his brother just so he could keep talking to her. And surprisingly, over the course of just a few months, Grant had stolen over $200,000 from his family. He had stole around $60,000 from his brother Cody and $150,000 from his father.

• 1:32:22Courtney Brown?

  And he had even taken out a loan on his parents' house. Now, for a while, his parents didn't know what was going on. But of course, they would eventually find out.

• 1:32:33Colin Brown?

  When his parents learned that he had been stealing their money, they forced him to go to a 60-day rehab facility in South Florida that specialized in pornography and internet addiction. But Grant ended up leaving the facility after a few short weeks. However, when he returned home, his parents gave him an ultimatum. They told Grant if he didn't stop speaking to Sylvie, then he would be kicked out of the house. And at first, Grant agreed. But he knew deep down that he wasn't going to stop talking to Sylvie. He loved her. And he thought Sylvie loved him back. So he continued keeping in contact with her. But of course, his parents eventually found out that he wasn't keeping his end of the deal. So on January 23, 2019, Grant's father Chad sat him down once again.

• 1:33:17Colin Brown?

  He told his son that due to their agreement, he had no other choice but to kick Grant out of the house. Chad was understandably fed up. Grant was a 29-year-old living with his parents and had no job. He had stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from them. And even after everything, he couldn't seem to stop talking to this girl. So that was it for him. After giving him chance after chance, Grant was now on his own.

• 1:33:42Courtney Brown?

  For Chad and Margaret, they thought they were doing what was best for Grant. I'm sure they figured that kicking him out of the house would help him get his life together. If he was having to pay for his bills, his own rent and food, then maybe he'd understand how reckless he had been with their money. But that was not Grant's mindset. On January twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, the day after his parents kicked him out, Grant made his way back over to their house. At the time, his mother Margaret was sitting at her desk, on her computer. She had no idea that Grant had snuck his way inside, or that he was creeping up behind her with a gun in his hand.

• 1:34:23Courtney Brown?

  In that moment, Grant lifted the gun, and he shot his mother in the back of her head. And from there, he waited for his father to come home. When Chad finally arrived, he was unaware that his wife had been shot dead within the study. And as he walked into the kitchen, he suddenly encountered his son Grant, the son that he had just kicked out of their house. I'm sure Chad figured that Grant was there to negotiate, maybe to see if he could come back home. But soon enough, Grant lifted his gun, and he fired two shots into his dad's body. But once Chad was dead, Grant wasn't finished just yet. He still had one more family member to kill, his brother Cody.

• 1:35:07Courtney Brown?

  Using his father's phone, Grant texted his brother and told him to come right home after work. And later that night, he would. Cody pulled his vehicle into the garage, and when Grant heard the garage door open, he grabbed his gun. Cody, still wearing his nurse's scrubs, grabbed his things and started making his way inside when he suddenly saw his brother standing in the threshold. And just like his parents, Grant gunned him down. In that moment, he had successfully murdered his entire family. But as if he couldn't get any worse, Grant then decided to stage the murders as if it was the work of his brother Cody. He placed the gun near Cody's body.

• 1:35:52Courtney Brown?

  Making it look like he had killed himself after murdering his parents. And then from there, Grant fled the scene.

• 1:35:59Colin Brown?

  The following morning, Cody's coworkers began to grow concerned when he didn't show up for his shift. You see, unlike Grant, Cody was actually a responsible human being. So his coworkers knew that something was wrong. So they immediately called the Orange County Sheriff's Department for a wellness check. At around 9:17 a.m., police arrived at the residence and what they would find would be forever ingrained in their minds. They found Margaret slumped over her counter with her head resting on the keyboard. Chad was found lying on his back in a pool of blood in the kitchen. And Cody was in the fetal position in a storage room near the garage. And Grant's plan to pin it all on his brother Cody didn't work. Investigators could tell by looking at the scene that this was not a murder-suicide.

• 1:36:44Colin Brown?

  The Amato family had been executed in cold blood in their own home. And one family member was missing. Grant Amato. On January 26th, investigators located his 1996 Honda Accord in the parking lot of a DoubleTree Hotel. And from there, Grant was taken to the police station for questioning. And of course, he maintained his innocence and blamed his brother Cody. However, when Grant was located, investigators found a flash drive in his possession. And on it, they found hundreds of pictures of Sylvie. It wouldn't take them long to figure out all of the family drama that had taken place over the last few months. Grant stealing his family's money, him going to rehab, how his parents kicked him out of the house the day before the murders.

• 1:37:27Colin Brown?

  And from there, Grant Amato was arrested and charged with three counts of first-degree murder. His trial would start on July 15th, 2019, and Grant pleaded not guilty. But the jury saw right through everything. And July 31st, 2019, they found him guilty on all counts. Following his conviction, Grant Amato was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And was taken to the Florida State Prison in Rayford, Florida. When asked if he had any remorse for what he had done, he responded, "My family has been blaming me for months for ruining their lives, stealing, and not following the rules of the home. So I might as well be blamed for this, too."

• 1:38:07Courtney Brown?

  This story was huge at the time. The fact that someone could murder their entire family over a girl he met online was hard to believe. And when you think about all of the money he stole, all the lies and the secrecy, it's disturbing to think about. Then the pictures of the crime scenes started circulating online. I remember seeing those. The pictures of Margaret at her computer, Chad lying in the kitchen, and his brother Cody curled up near the garage, how their blood covered the floors. And to think that this was the work of their family member, someone that they loved and provided for his entire life. And in the end, their lives were taken over something so stupid.

• 1:38:52Courtney Brown?

  Grant Amato was undoubtedly a monster, and this was the man that Victoria Goodwin started a secret pen pal relationship with. After the murders, Paramount Plus did a three-part documentary on the crime, and Victoria watched it. However, instead of being disgusted with Grant, like most people are when hearing this story, she wasn't. In fact, soon after watching it, around May of 2024, she figured out how to get in contact with him. Now, at the time, her husband Aaron had been traveling to film the 29th season of Ghost Adventures, so Victoria had some time to herself. And during that time, she and Grant started writing to each other.

• 1:39:36Courtney Brown?

  With each letter that Victoria sent out, the two were growing closer, and eventually, the letters went from friendly to romantic.

• 1:39:46Colin Brown?

  But after a while, that wasn't enough for them. Communicating via letters was taking too long. So Grant ended up getting a contraband cellphone in his prison cell, and from there, he and Victoria could text each other whenever they wanted to. Her name in Grant's phone was Victoria Candy. And after a while, the two started discussing how much they loved each other. This was no longer a friendship. Victoria was having a full-blown affair with a man who had murdered his entire family. Disturbingly, Victoria even started complaining to Grant about her husband Aaron. In their texts, they referred to him as FH, which people have speculated means famous husband. But in her text to Grant, Victoria talked about how Aaron wouldn't want a divorce,

• 1:40:29Colin Brown?

  and how she wanted to find a way out of their marriage without having to divorce him.

• 1:40:35Courtney Brown?

  And all the while, Aaron Goodwin was completely unaware of what his wife was doing. He was away filming for Ghost Adventures. He was providing for them, and this is how Victoria repaid him. And from looking at social media, it's clear that Aaron was still in love with his wife. In 2025, he posted a picture of them kissing after a round of mini golf. Victoria even posted a picture of his hand on her leg with the caption, quote, "Cuddle puddle with my boys," end quote. She was clearly still playing the role of the loving wife. However, unbeknownst to Aaron, several months before these photos were posted,

• 1:41:17Courtney Brown?

  Victoria had been texting Grant about hiring a hitman to kill her husband. On October 2nd, 2024, she and Grant had the following conversation. Am I a bad person? Why? Because I chose to end his existence, not divorce.

• 1:41:36Colin Brown?

  According to records, Victoria and Grant had discussed ending Aaron's life with the help of a hitman known as Gordo. Grant apparently knew someone on the outside who would be willing to help, and after discussing it with Victoria, he used his contraband phone to contact Gordo and set up a plan. Victoria told Grant she had set aside $11,515 for the hit. She agreed to pay $2,500 upfront, and the rest he would get when the job is finished. And the down payment was actually sent to Grant via PayPal. So the hit on Aaron Goodwin had been set in motion. Victoria and Grant had even discussed a location, and she had given the description of Aaron's vehicle so that the hitman would know who he was.

• 1:42:19Colin Brown?

  At the time, Aaron was at a ghost town in Barstow, California, and he was driving a black Dodge minivan. After Victoria and Grant got all of the details worked out, she even texted him the following.

• 1:42:30Courtney Brown?

  I'm so anxious, lololol. I can't believe it's happening. Like, how did I get to this point?

• 1:42:38Colin Brown?

  The hit was scheduled for October 3rd, 2024, while Aaron was in California filming an episode of Ghost Adventures. Victoria even texted Grant a photograph of Aaron and his exact location using the Find My Friends app. Apparently, Victoria told Grant that Aaron was staying at the Best Western Plus, and from there, Grant gave this information to the hitman Gordo. So that night, Victoria and Grant were anxiously waiting for the news that Aaron Goodwin had been murdered. After a while, Grant even texted Gordo and said, He's asleep right now in the hotel room. Brother, I need to know what's going on. Can I get an update? Was it done?

• 1:43:16Courtney Brown?

  Grant Amato was sitting in his prison cell, anxiously waiting to hear the news of Aaron's murder. Victoria was doing the same, but at her home in Nevada. But the two would wait, and wait, and wait. With no news from Gordo, Grant was clearly scared. He even texted Gordo and told him to block his number, I guess so they couldn't trace it back to him. But later that night, Florida corrections officers stormed into Grant's cell and confiscated his contraband cellphone. And from there, he and Victoria's entire plan was discovered. Now, we have no information on what happened with the hitman, or even who he was.

• 1:43:58Courtney Brown?

  But luckily, Aaron Goodwin made it out alive. Their plan had failed, and over the next few months, investigators would begin building their case against Victoria. But I can't help but wonder what was going through her mind at the time. She and Grant had been texting back and forth for months. Then, the very night that her husband was supposed to get murdered, he suddenly stopped all communication with her. And from there, Victoria went on with her life as if nothing happened. Eventually, Aaron would come home from his filming trip, and she pretended like everything was fine, like she didn't just try to have him killed. A few weeks later, she even posted a picture of Aaron on her social media with the caption,

• 1:44:43Courtney Brown?

  quote, "Does anyone recognize this guy? He cute." On New Year's, she posted a picture of them kissing. She posted him again on Valentine's Day. To the outside world, Victoria and Aaron had a great marriage, but Victoria's beautiful life was about to come crashing down.

• 1:45:01Colin Brown?

  And I can't help but wonder what was going through Victoria's mind at the time. After the failed hit on her husband, I'm sure she stayed up all night wondering where it all went wrong. Why did Grant stop all communication? Was he scamming her? Did the police find his phone? Did the police know about her? Well, unbeknownst to Victoria, police in Florida had been analyzing the contents of Grant Amato's confiscated phone. And by March of 2025, they had learned that the woman he had been talking to was none other than Victoria Goodwin. On March 4th, 2025, police in Nevada were notified about her crimes, and a few days later, they finally came knocking on her door to place her under arrest.

• 1:45:42Colin Brown?

  Victoria was then charged with solicitation and conspiracy to commit murder. At the Clark County Police Station, she told investigators that she started talking to Grant Amato after watching that documentary. Victoria said that because of her husband's work schedule, where Aaron was gone filming all the time, she was often alone. She found herself extremely lonely, so she decided to write Grant Amato a letter. And from there, a relationship blossomed. Now, when asked about the murder-for-hire plot, Victoria stated that she didn't remember sending those messages. But she did admit to living in a fantasy world without her husband around. She said that she often daydreamed about a life with Grant instead of Aaron. She also denied wanting her husband killed and no longer felt she wanted to be without him.

• 1:46:27Colin Brown?

  As for the $11,515 she had set aside for the hit, Victoria played dumb and claimed that she believed it was only for cellphone payments. Ultimately, she was taken to jail and held on a $100,000 bond.

• 1:46:41Courtney Brown?

  Now, at the time of Victoria's arrest, Aaron was actually in Los Angeles filming for Ghost Adventures, and he still had no idea what was going on. But soon enough, he would get a call that would forever change his life. That day, a Clark County police officer called him to let him know that Victoria was in jail for putting out a hit on him. And according to TMZ, Ghost Adventures had actually been in the middle of filming when Aaron got the call. So, it's all on camera. Now, Zach Baggins has since stated that he's not sure if that footage will ever be released. As you can imagine, this was a very sensitive moment in Aaron's life. He was completely shocked.

• 1:47:26Courtney Brown?

  This was his wife, someone he thought he knew, but clearly that wasn't the case.

• 1:47:33Colin Brown?

  On March 12th, 2025, Aaron filed for divorce in Clark County, Nevada citing, "The views, tastes, likes and dislikes of he and his wife were incompatible to the extent that it has become impossible for them to live together as husband and wife in marital harmony." He further added, "There is no possibility of reconciliation between husband and wife", and requested that neither party be awarded alimony. But when the news of Victoria's arrest hit the media, Ghost Adventures fans were outraged. Since the very beginning of the show, Aaron had gained a loyal following, people that have been watching and following his life for years. And they all quickly ran to social media to show him their support. On March 21st, Aaron posted a smiley face emoji on his X account with the caption,

• 1:48:18Colin Brown?

  "Thank you everyone for all the love and support through this emotionally trying time. It has really helped a lot and I appreciate you all." One user wrote back, "We love you, Aaron, but I'll tell you what, buddy. I was thinking she was gonna take your shit anyways. I'm glad it ended the way it did, if that makes any sense. She didn't deserve you. You are a gentle, humble soul. You are grounded with the Creator." Another posted, "God bless you, Aaron. I've been a fan since the beginning and I'm grateful for the years of entertainment. Thank you. Keep keeping on, my friend. God is with you." Then, on March 19th, Aaron filed a lawsuit against Victoria, suing her for assault as he had feared for his safety. He also claimed false imprisonment and negligence.

• 1:48:59Colin Brown?

  The lawsuit read, "Victoria's conduct was extreme and outrageous with either the intention of or reckless disregard for causing emotional distress to Aaron. He suffered severe or extreme emotional distress as the actual or proximate result of her conduct. Aaron is currently seeking more than $100,000 in damages."

• 1:49:19Courtney Brown?

  Over the past few weeks, everyone following this case has been waiting to see what will happen with Victoria Goodwin. And on April 12th, she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit murder. In exchange for a guilty plea, prosecutors agreed to drop the charge of solicitation to commit murder. And she's scheduled to be sentenced on June 24th of this year. Right now, she faces anywhere from 2 to 10 years in prison.

• 1:49:48Colin Brown?

  I asked Nick Groff about this in our interview, and here's what he had to say.

• 1:49:52Speaker 05

  I actually had a couple of news channels reach out to me. I knew nothing about her. I was way away from Ghost Adventures when Aaron met her. So I didn't know anything about her. I've never met her. It's kind of sad, you know, thinking, knowing back then when Aaron and I used to talk and stuff, like just knowing how he was as a person and just knowing that somebody could, you know, betray and go that deep and crazy. It's wild.

• 1:50:25Colin Brown?

  So we will definitely be following this case as it plays out. But as someone who watched Ghost Adventures when I was young, this news was shocking. I'm incredibly glad that Victoria's plans to have Aaron murdered didn't work out. And I can only hope that she gets the justice that she deserves. But it is a bit eerie when you consider the fact that this man who hunts ghosts for a living was nearly turned into one himself by his own wife. And when it comes to the tragic tale of Mark and Debbie Constantino, Ghost Adventures actually did an episode a few years ago where they returned to the Washout Club, a place that we talked about earlier in this episode that they had investigated with Mark and Debbie before.

• 1:51:08Colin Brown?

  And in that episode, they tried to contact Mark and Debbie's spirits themselves. I've seen some people talk about this online, saying it was too far. But I've seen far more people comment saying that this is something that Debbie probably would have enjoyed, something that she herself probably would have done if the tables were turned. And according to the Ghost Adventures crew, they captured Debbie's voice from beyond the grave. We're gonna end on this clip.

• 1:51:34Speaker 05

  Wait, who is that lady? Listen.

• 1:51:41Speaker 05

  That one. Do you hear that? Listen.

• 1:51:47Speaker 05

  Oh my god, it's ours. Play it again. Oh, listen to that, trust, dude. Oh, it does. It sounds exactly like us.

• 1:52:09Colin Brown?

  For today's episode, in memory of Debbie Constantino, we will be making a donation to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

• 1:52:22Colin Brown?

  Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. This was obviously a very important and very exciting episode for, you know, me to sit down and help create. Obviously, like I said, I grew up watching Ghost Adventures, so getting to sit down and talk to Nick about all this stuff, I don't know if he's ever really done an interview like this before. I don't believe he has. So that was a really special opportunity, and I'm just so thankful that he agreed to do this with us and that he trusted us enough to try and tell Mark and Debbie Constantino's story properly. If you guys love the show and you want to help support what we do here, please consider joining us on Patreon. You can get access to early episodes of the show, ad-free episodes of the show. And if you

• 1:53:06Colin Brown?

  love Murder in America and you want more, we do offer bonus episodes of the show that we post every single month, multiple a month. And if you've never signed up for Patreon, if you sign up today for one of those tiers, you can instantly get access to over 100 bonus episodes of Murder in America. These are full-length episodes of the show with Courtney and I, and these aren't just stories that, you know, we didn't think were important enough to put on the main feed. All these stories are the same amount of important to us, and there are some really powerful, really impactful stories, just on the Patreon alone, that will never be posted on the main feed. So, thank you to everybody that has chosen to support us over there. Also, be sure to follow us on Instagram @MurderInAmerica

• 1:53:47Colin Brown?

  to see photos from every single case that we cover. Check out Nick Groff's new show, Deathwalker, which is streaming online. He and his wife Tessa have a big social media presence, so they have some really amazing stuff going on. They even do live shows, which I'm dying to go to. And one last thing, don't forget to leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to this podcast. Anyways, y'all, thank you so much for listening to this very special episode of the show. I hope y'all have an amazing weekend. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll catch y'all on the next one.

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