315: Scientist P.D. Mangan On Using Diet & Exercise To Fight Aging

PD Mangan is a 65 year-old author and scientist focused on using pharmacology, biochemistry, and microbiology to better understand how diet and exercise can be used for anti-aging and longevity. In this conversation, we discuss the importance of lean muscle mass, the science behind caloric restriction, why he is a proponent of high intensity resistance training, and the difference between lifespan and healthspan. You can read more of PD's work here: https://roguehealthandfitness.com/ =============================== Blockset by BRD is your hosted blockchain infrastructure. Blockset enables enterprises and developers around the globe to deliver high-quality blockchain-based applications in a fraction of the time, at a fraction of the cost. Using the services provided by Blockset, businesses can build professional custody solutions, accurate and near real-time portfolio management solutions, auditing platforms, commercial block explorers, and much more: https://www.blockset.com =============================== Crypto.com is the only all-in-one platform that allows you to BUY / SELL / STORE / EARN / LOAN / INVEST crypto all from one place. Join over 1 million users currently using the Crypto.com app. Download and earn $50 USD using my code ‘pomp2020’, or use the link https://platinum.crypto.com/r/pomp2020 when you sign up for one of their metal cards today. =============================== Pomp writes a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Anthony Pompliano?

  This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off.

• 0:11Anthony Pompliano?

  P D Mangan is a 65-year-old author and scientist focused on using pharmacology, biochemistry, and microbiology to better understand how diet and exercise can be used for anti-aging and longevity. In this conversation, we discuss the importance of lean muscle mass, the science behind caloric restriction, why he is a proponent of high-intensity resistance training, and the difference between lifespan and health span. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope you do as well. But before we get into the episode, I want to talk about our sponsors. The first is Blockset by BRD. You probably know BRD as the first Bitcoin wallet to get in the App Store, and they've now built this product,

• 0:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Blockset. It's a hosted blockchain infrastructure product. Think of Amazon AWS that serves the traditional computing systems. Blockset does the same thing for the blockchain infrastructure. Blockset enables enterprises and developers around the globe to deliver high-quality blockchain-based applications in a fraction of the time and a fraction of the cost. Using the services provided by Blockset, businesses can build professional custody solutions, accurate and near-real-time portfolio management solutions, auditing platforms, commercial block explorers, and much more. Go visit them at blockset.com. Again, blockset.com. They are your hosted blockchain infrastructure. The next sponsor is crypto.com. They've been a longtime sponsor of the podcast. They're

• 1:41Anthony Pompliano?

  an all-in-one platform that allows you to buy, sell, store, earn, loan, and invest crypto all from one place. You can join over 1 million users currently using the crypto.com app. If you go there and you download it, you can earn $50 US dollars using my code POMP2020. Crypto.com. Buy, sell, store, earn, loan, or invest crypto all from one place. They've got a great URL, and they're the place where mass adoption is happening. And lastly, don't forget that I write a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business technology and finance. I break down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com.

• 2:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Again, pompletter.com. Alright, let's get into this episode with P D. I hope you guys enjoy it.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:55Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. Super excited to have PD on the podcast here. I was telling him beforehand that he gets to spend all of his time worrying about things that actually matter in the world, like health, diet, and anti-aging. So, thanks so much for doing this, man.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Thanks, Anthony. It's my pleasure.

• 3:16Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. So, for those that don't know you, maybe let's just start with your background. Where did you grow up? And then, what did you do through school before you started really creating content on the Internet?

• 3:27Speaker 02

  So, yeah. So, I have a background. My education is in microbiology and biochemistry. I've studied pharmacology as well. And as, you know, I was pointing out to you, this is, you know, I'm not a research scientist or anything like that, but it is my field. So, let me give you a little bit of other background. I've been interested in health and fitness for a long time. And, you know, I basically followed conventional wisdom for a long time, but then, when I

• 4:08Speaker 02

  found myself with an illness, this has already been a couple of decades ago, and I couldn't get better, my interest definitely deepened because I had to try to figure out how to take care of myself, how to heal myself, how to improve, because doctors couldn't do it. They were getting nowhere, and I saw a number of them. So, you know, so I jumped in and, and, you know, I definitely made progress. I definitely figured a few things out. And so I started writing about it.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  And after I had written about it, I thought, well, what do I do now? I guess I'll keep writing and, and keep researching and, and so on. So I did that and I've written several books and then, you know, got on Twitter and, and that's basically, you know, fast forward today, here I am.

• 5:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And so you, you obviously are incredibly humble. You've written, I think, six books at this point. You, you've got a fairly popular blog in Rogue Health and Fitness. And the part to me that initially caught my attention was I saw you tweeting a bunch of stuff that I thought was interesting. And when I clicked through to the website, there's these photos of you. And one is from 2008. And the way I would describe it, for those that are just listening, is essentially you look like kind of your standard computer programmer, right? You've got basically kind of a button down collared shirt on, some khakis, and overly skinny, but by no means kind of out of shape,

• 5:55Anthony Pompliano?

  but more of, just like you've never been around a weight room before. And then you fast forward to 2017 and you're like, wait a minute. The guy in 2017 looks like he's in way better shape and actually younger than the guy in 2008. And I think that's kind of, you know, a great just visual example of the work that you've done around, hey, this stuff's actually really, really important as you get older. And that's really where you've kind of hung your hat, right?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Right. It, it is very important. Yeah. My starting point, as you mentioned, was definitely, you know, not, not quite where most people are starting from these days. You know, I mean, I was, I was on the underweight side. And, and that was when I was ill as well. So, you know, one of the things I figured out was that resistance training, AKA weightlifting, was one of the best things I could do. And I got very much into it, put on a lot of muscle right away, basically in the first year after I started it and started eating differently as well.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  So my, my reading and, and studies have convinced me that, that it's, that resistance training is just a very important thing for everyone to do, whether they're men or women, young or old. We lose muscle as we age. This is a really underappreciated fact. That, that it's even, it's even detectable when someone is in their 30s. And then this accelerates over the years and it's such that by, by the time someone is 80 years old, they can have lost half the muscle mass that they had when they were young, if they don't do something about it. And of course, most people aren't doing anything about it.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  So, uh, yeah, that's a condition known as sarcopenia. It's massive, uh, loss of muscle mass. And then a lot of people overlay a, a pretty high amount of body fat over that. And that's, that's just a health disaster. I think that, um, that this is, this is, the muscle part is, is underappreciated and, and everything about that is underappreciated, you know, in, why, why do people get sicker as they get older? And to my mind, this is, you know, right there is the crux of the matter as far as why they do metabolic dysfunction from losing muscle, excess body fat.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Of course, the wrong kinds of foods enter into it and on and on, but you know, you know, right there. I tweeted something just, just this morning. I was, you know, thinking about this. I, I tweeted that, that, um, all chronic disease is just a manifestation of a single cause. And, okay, that's, that, that's a huge generality, I realize, but I think this is something that, is not appreciated very much, that, that metabolic.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Dysfunction that comes from being out of shape and eating the wrong kind of food. This is what underlies virtually everything that people go to the doctor for. You know, the crime diseases that are seen in the developed world. You know, as opposed to acute things that are that are more common elsewhere. So yeah, that's, that's a big, big idea that, that I think, you know, is one of my main themes. That you, you have, you have to have good metabolic function to avoid crime disease.

• 9:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and, and part of what I think is so interesting about your work is you literally named the blog Rogue Health and Fitness. Right? You're going rogue from kind of the standard ideas around what to eat, how to exercise and things like that. And so I thought maybe what we could do is let's start on the diet side. Right? Most people are taught kind of a low fat, high carb type diet. And they basically eat, you know, what they consider to be that food pyramid. You obviously have a, a different view of the world. So maybe kind of talk about the work you've done and why you've arrived at something that's different. Or kind of rogue to those traditional recommendations.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Okay, great. So I think that a lot of this, a lot of the way people eat. And, and you know, how they're recommended to eat and so on. It flows from one, one single idea and that idea is a wrong idea. And, and it's basically the idea that saturated fat causes heart disease. This, this goes back to, you know, the 40s and 50s and, and the nutritionist Ansel Keys. And the cholesterol idea and so on. And, and they hit on the idea that saturated fat was killing people.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  It was, it was a huge problem at the time. Heart disease, it's still a big problem, but it's mostly much older people now. At the time, they were looking at a lot of middle aged men dropping dead of heart attacks and so on. So they hit on this idea and in retrospect, you know, looking at, looking at what we know now in the research, it seems wholly mistaken. Nevertheless, by the late 1970s, the US government had latched on to it and put out official dietary recommendations that we should avoid eating a lot of saturated fat,

• 12:04Speaker 02

  that we should eat a lot of whole grains, that fruits and vegetables were uniquely healthy, and so on and so forth. And that is the basis for how, how most people are eating now. I, I, let me back up a little. As far as saturated fat goes, there have been several meta-analyses, which are basically reviews of studies done in the last decade that have shown that intake of dietary saturated fat is not related to coronary heart disease.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  So I come from a perspective of, of thinking, why do, why does the Western world, the modern Western world, suffer from these diseases like heart disease and cancer and Alzheimer's, diabetes, and so on? And, and why have these all increased in recent years? And why do some other societies not have them, essentially? You know, for, for example, there is, there's a, there's an island in the South Pacific,

• 13:25Speaker 02

  the Katavans, the island of Katava, where these people live, and they have no chronic disease whatsoever, as far as they found, you know? People have gone there and investigated them, and that despite the fact that 75% of the men smoked cigarettes. So, you know, I mean, I'm not, you know, not saying that cigarettes are benign by any means, but I'm just saying, I'm pointing out this fact. Why do these people have seemingly no chronic disease?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  If you go back in time, why did these, even in the Western world, why were these diseases so scarce and why are they common now? Well, my main conclusion is that chronic diseases are, as someone has said, they might be better termed the diseases of processed food. So in the late 19th century, there were technologies developed, for example, that were able to make white flour. There was little to no white flour before that, but then they, you know, with the Industrial

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Revolution and these gigantic milling machines, they were able to make white flour and everybody started using it. Sugar has been around a little bit longer, but it became a lot cheaper. And so as it became cheaper and cheaper, people started using more of it. Couple hundred years ago, in the US, you know, per capita consumption was like five pounds a year, something like that, whereas it's, you know, in the range of 150 pounds now. And then one other invention that happened in the late 19th century was they figured out how to extract oils from seeds.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  So they, this started out actually as a way to try to make cotton seeds, which were a waste product, profitable, to get something out of them. And they did. And ultimately, they made Crisco. The last, the CO on that last part of Crisco stands for cottonseed oil. And they applied this to a number, you know, of different oils. So now, for example, soybean oil is the most common oil and, you know, corn oil, canola oil, you know, et cetera, all these oils.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  So you put those all together and you've got modern food. And you put them, you put them together in a certain way, in certain combinations, and you've got modern ultra-processed food that people eat huge amounts of. So in the United States.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Approximately sixty percent of calories in the average diet comes from these ultra-processed foods. So that's a huge amount. So these are, these are, what I'm talking about specifically are the kind of foods that come in boxes and bags that are brightly labeled, have brand names that are found in the middle aisles of the supermarket.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  And, and that's what most people eat. So

• 16:55Speaker 02

  that is what has caused our modern epidemic of chronic disease in my estimation. Now, we've had even, you know, a lot of this goes back to the invention of agriculture, right? So, so before agriculture, everyone was a hunter-gatherer. Everyone ate meat and whatever, whatever wild vegetation they could gather. And as far as we know, they suffered from none of these chronic diseases that we have now. Then when agriculture, agriculture was invented, people started eating lots of grains.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  And they started suffering from a lot of chronic diseases. For example, a really good example of this is that before agriculture, the average man was something like five foot nine inches tall. After agriculture, they were five foot three. And there was all kinds of, you know, with, and with the same, you know, proportionate decrease in women. And, you know, they found in skeletal, skeletal remains that have been studied and so on, chronic diseases, osteoarthritis, so on and so forth. Infectious diseases also, also became very prominent. At any rate, we lived like that for a long time. In, in recent years,

• 18:23Speaker 02

  say the nineteenth century, people started getting much taller again due to better nutrition.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  But then we took a second hit. We took this industrial food hit that I was just talking about, starting around 1900, say. Heart disease started rising as an epidemic, basically. In 1900, there was essentially zero heart disease. Famous cardiologist Paul Dudley White, who was the most famous cardiologist of mid-century, said that when he was training in the early years of the century, nobody ever talked about coronary artery disease, because nobody had it. They didn't know it existed. And then people started having heart attacks and so

• 19:11Speaker 02

  on, till by the mid 20th century, you had huge, you know, huge numbers of heart attacks and so on, heart disease epidemic.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  So then, you know, fast forward to a couple of decades ago, and then we had these dietary guidelines, after they decided that saturated fat was bad. And then the obesity epidemic started going, right about that time. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. There are other factors, I believe, but the fact that people were told to eat less meat and animal products and to eat more carbohydrates, I believe, very much contributed to it.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  So there we are. There's the food element. And that is my explanation of why this has happened. And so what it really sounds like, because it's super interesting, like, one is, there's a direct correlation between bad food, get other problems, right? It's kind of a very general way to look at that. And then the question, and really where the debate lies, is like, well, what's bad food and what's not bad food? I think your general kind of conclusion sounds Sounds like real food is good, anything that's not real is worse, right? Not necessarily that it it's bad, it's just when given the choice between two separate

• 20:51Speaker 02

  types of meals, if one is made with real food, that doesn't come with the oils and the process, process, all that kind of stuff versus the stuff that does, that real food will in almost every way be better for you. Is that correct? That that is correct. Now, there's, you know, there's endless debate in like in my corner of Twitter, for example, about, you know, what constitutes the best diet? What what should be, what should human beings really be eating optimally and so on and so forth? But I think as as you just put it, that is a very fundamental divide there. So like, for example,

• 21:34Speaker 02

  you have, you have the vegans. So now vegans,

• 21:40Speaker 02

  I mean, I I don't have a lot of sympathy for veganism. Nevertheless, you know, they will point out, well, you know, a whole food, plant-based diet

• 21:53Speaker 02

  makes people healthier. And there's, you know, a fair amount of evidence that, yeah, it does.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  And in my view, the reason for that is because they've stopped eating processed garbage. So when you talk about a whole food, plant-based diet, it's not the plant-based, it's the whole food that makes the difference. So, you know, you you could also formulate different diets, but if you're talking about using these ultra-processed foods, these, these, you know, garbage foods, then, you know, those are, there's, those are going to be bad. So like I say, you know, there, there's a lot of debate about what constitutes the optimal or the best, and I have my own opinions on that. But yes, this, what you just mentioned,

• 22:45Speaker 02

  real whole food versus ultra-processed food is just a fundamental base there. Yeah, it it's almost like, look, uh, whether you want to go vegan, paleo, whatever else diet that everyone is, you know, kind of debating, everyone

• 23:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Pretty much agrees eating processed food is bad, right? And so if you can, if you can stop doing that as step one for most people listening to this, like you're headed in the right direction and then everything else is kind of optimizing from there.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Right, right. And I think that, you know, that a lot of the people, a lot of the vegans, for example, who, who proselytize for their diet, for, for lack of a better word,

• 23:30Speaker 02

  they, they don't really quite understand that they, they, you know, and even let's, let's get back from the vegans, but let's even talk about mainstream health authorities, the kind of stuff that you'll, there'll be an article in New York Times, so and so says this and this. They don't seem to realize the difference either. They, they don't seem to get, for the most part, that, that, you know, these ultra-processed foods are causing the problem. The, for example, the, the, the oils that I mentioned, so I refer to them as seed oils.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  They're more commonly known as vegetable oils, but they're not made out of vegetables. They're made out of this mass industrial process from seeds. In any case, they're still widely recommended by health authorities that, you know, we should be using them and so on and so forth. So a lot of that just goes, they, they, they just don't get it, unfortunately.

• 24:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And, and what do you eat on a daily basis? So processed food is bad, kind of, how do you come out on this in terms of what solution you've found for yourself? And, and I should have caveated at the beginning. You are, I'm 32 years old, you are not 32. You frankly, look like you're in your mid 40s, but how old are you?

• 25:02Speaker 02

  I'm 65. I, I, I just got on Medicare a couple of months ago.

• 25:09Anthony Pompliano?

  You, you would be the poster boy for moving the Medicare age up.

• 25:15Anthony Pompliano?

  You, you do not look like you're 65 years old. So what are you eating on a day-to-day basis?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  So I guess you could probably characterize it as low carb.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  And very meat based. So I eat meat and eggs, basically a lot of them. And I eat non-starchy vegetables.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  And I drink coffee and tea and some red wine and I think a little bit of dairy. So, you know, some no sugar yogurt, that is some cheese, that sort of thing. That about covers it for the most part, unless I'm cheating or something.

• 26:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then I'm really interested and we'll get to some of the anti-aging stuff in a little bit. But part of the diet is when you eat, right? And so the two things that is really interesting to me, and I cheated a little bit because I spent a lot of time looking at like David Sinclair's work around longevity and all of this. But one of the key pieces is caloric restriction, right? And so there's kind of two ways to do it, either one, literally eat less, which can be very difficult for a lot of people, especially in today's society. Or this idea of intermittent fasting, which has, frankly, appeared to explode in popularity. And I think that you do the intermittent fasting as well?

• 26:46Speaker 02

  I do. So intermittent fasting is just going, yeah, like you said, it's exploded in popularity. So I don't know how much of an explanation people need, but yes, it's just a practice of going without food for some length of time. And there are, there are a number of intermittent fasting regimens. I mean, you know, there are tons of different ones, almost as many as, you know, the number of people who practice it, right? So 16-8 is a very common one and that's what I usually do. So that just means nothing, nothing to eat after the evening meal.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Then sleep time counts as well. And then not having anything to eat in the morning until approximately 16 hours after you the evening meal the night before. So you mentioned caloric restriction. So yeah, this is interesting from an anti-aging point of view because many decades ago, scientists working with lab animals found out that if you fed animals less, they lived longer and they had less disease and so on. And the idea that all diseases are inhibited means that aging itself is inhibited.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  So caloric restriction has, you know, turned out to be the most robust, most reproducible life extension intervention that scientists have found. So like you say, caloric restriction is very difficult to do and in my view is not really necessary. So there are, there are people who practice caloric restriction. There's a calorie restriction society that, you know, with I think several thousand members who do this or weigh their food very carefully every day and all this and they're all very lean and so on.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  But there's, there's an easier way and intermittent fasting appears to be just as effective as caloric restriction for life extension, but without really actual caloric restriction. I mean, you know, for example, myself and other people who practice intermittent fasting were of normal weight, right? We're not, you know, super skinny or, or something like that. So, you know, presumably I and, and those other people are eating, you know, a normal amount of calories. So, you know, what it appears to be is it's, it's a horm, it's a hormetic stress.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  That gets into another topic, but it's a stress much like exercise is a stress that results in the organism becoming healthier. So yes, intermittent fasting, I, I practice it. Many people do. It, it also appears to be pretty effective for weight loss.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  From, from, when combined with a decent diet. Because people simply have difficulty eating as much during the time when they're eating. You know, that, that they skipped before. So, um, yes, intermittent fasting, um, I, I do it and a lot of people do it. Very, very healthy practice.

• 30:16Anthony Pompliano?

  What, what is the target number of calories that like the caloric restriction community? What do they normally try to target? Is there some kind of, uh, either one set number or two, some math that they do?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Well, um, you know, as far as the people doing it, I, I honestly am not sure. But in the laboratory, when, when they've studied animals, they found that basically the more restriction, the longer they live. I mean, they've, they've taken, um, anyway, anywhere from 10 to 50% of, you know, fewer calories for these animals. Um, and you, you, and, and, and the more restriction, the longer they seem to live.

• 31:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that, that's absolutely crazy. And then in, in terms of, um, kind of the diet, right? So the takeaways really for me are eat less processed food. Uh, I think, uh, maybe Sinclair talked about this in one of his books too. Is this idea of, um, when you eat is almost more important than what you eat in some circumstances, right? So kind of this caloric restriction or, or intermittent fasting. Uh, but then you overlay exercise on it, right? And I think that most people, uh, if I said to them, hey, uh, you are tasked with losing 10 pounds, they would immediately, one, think of exercise, right? They wouldn't think of diet, uh, which, which obviously is a, uh, is kind of a false way of thinking about it. But two is the type of exercise.

• 31:47Anthony Pompliano?

  They'd say, well, I'm going to go run, right? And I'm going to go run as far as I can, for as long as I can, and, uh, hope to God that I lose weight. Obviously you have a very different view of the world. So maybe kind of help me understand why you again, kind of go rogue from the traditional exercise, uh, advice.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Right. Very interesting question. This, this is another topic where people have it just all, all the wrong way around. Um, so. Yeah, so you know, if you if you told somebody they had to lose ten pounds, they think about exercise. So that that's the common idea, I'm gonna go burn it off. And and there are a number of things wrong with that idea. First of all, the evidence is is very poor. So, you know, as you can imagine, there have been a lot of studies of this sort of thing, you know, where they take a group of people and want them to lose weight. So one group will exercise and one one won't and so on. And if it's not coupled with diet, it is almost completely ineffective.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  It just doesn't work, exercise alone. And there there are there are reasons for that, good reasons for that. One is that you don't burn as much energy exercising as most people think, right? I mean, you can go have a pretty solid aerobic workout in the gym and, you know, you might, you know, for thirty, forty minutes or something like that, you might end up burning three hundred calories, you know, and then you go to Starbucks afterwards, get a Frappuccino, which is four hundred calories. Well, that, you know, that's all shot. And and that leads to a corollary, which is that exercise makes you hungry. So

• 33:36Speaker 02

  people exercise more thinking they're burning it all off, but then they just get hungrier and they eat more and so on. In fact, it's really interesting. It there there were doctors in the nineteenth century that said that if you want to lose weight, stop exercising. And if you want to gain weight, exercise. So, you know, completely different point of view. So my point of view as far as exercise and weight loss is that you're not, you don't exercise to to to burn fat or burn calories or whatever. So that, you know, diet diet is just supremely important in in in weight loss.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  So, you know, if you if you want to lose weight, you know, using the the Pareto rule, it's, you know, it's eighty to ninety percent of it is going to be your diet. However,

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Exercise resistance training is important. So, one, one big problem with conventional reducing diets. So, you know, low calorie diet, which is, you know, the most common thing, portion control, all this sort of thing. Is that if good measures aren't taken, a lot of the weight loss is muscle. And, um, that, you know, anywhere from a quarter up to half of weight loss can be muscle. And that is something that you really want to avoid at all costs. If you, when people talk about, I want to lose weight.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  It's fat they want to lose, not muscle, not, not the rest of their body weight, right? So, resistance training, um, is important in my view when people are, are wanting to lose weight. Because it helps them build in and retain their muscle.

• 35:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and, and part of this is, um, you know, again, it all goes back to science, which is if you have two people who weigh the exact same. So let's say you have a, you know, 180 pound man, one has a lean muscle mass and the other does not. Even though they weigh the same amount, um, from like a pound standpoint, their bodies are actually in very different states, right? That the lean muscle mass kind of more actively burns the calories versus, uh, not having that. And that's really what it sounds like a lot of the work that you've done is to drive people to not be scared of, um, of, of kind of developing that lean muscle mass, but actually seeking it out, right?

• 36:15Anthony Pompliano?

  And, and trying to put your body in a position where the muscles themselves are burning the fat or burning the calories. Uh, and therefore the diet plus that lean muscle mass really does the work for you.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Right. Um, the, you know, the example you gave of, you know, two, two men each weighing a hundred and eighty pounds. Um, but with, with different body composition, you know, is a good one because they do not have the same health risks at all. So the health risks that are associated with being overweight or obese are due to body fat. And they're not due to muscle. So, you know, this, this is one of the, um, drawbacks of the most commonly used measure. Um, uh, body mass index. Um, so it's, it's an idea, you know, it's a good idea to, to normalize

• 37:12Speaker 02

  uh, body weight for how tall you are and, and, and so on. But the fact is, is, you know, there are, um, you know, athletes mainly and some other people who, you know, are clinically overweight or even obese, but it's all muscle. And, um, and they don't have the health risks. Conversely, there are people who are normal weight. There's a phenomenon called normal weight obesity. And they have a very high level of body fat, even though they are a normal weight. And they have the exact same health risks as somebody who is obese. So yeah, it's all driven by body fat. The more muscle and less body fat you have

• 37:58Speaker 02

  within limits, of course, but you know, speaking very generally, the healthier you are. The, the more, it's not just, it's not even just a matter of the muscle burning the calories to keep you at a normal weight. It's also a matter of your metabolism is functioning properly. So that you don't have these high risks of, of all the chronic diseases that are so rampant in our society.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Type 2 diabetes has just risen tremendously, like something like eight to tenfold just in the last several decades. So those of us who talk about this topic, I think are very well aware of this, but I think this is this one fact is not very well appreciated by most people who don't take a deep look at it. And that is that type 2 diabetes is just the end result of a long chain of events that that lead ultimately to type 2 diabetes. So it's so somebody becomes diabetic when their blood sugar is no longer under control

• 39:13Speaker 02

  and it rises. But all the events that lead to that are happening in the vast majority of people in the United States today. There was a recent study that showed that 88% of of American adults had some kind of metabolic dysfunction and only 12% were clinically metabolically healthy. So what that means is that all those people, that 88%, they're they're traveling traveling that road to type 2 diabetes. That's the road you want to stay off. And by having good body composition, which is a high relatively high level of muscle,

• 39:56Speaker 02

  low level of body fat for both men and women, you stay off that road.

• 40:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, one of the interesting things I saw you talk about, I think it was in an article that you wrote, was the difference in using like a body mass index as a measurement for health versus literally just measuring somebody's waistline, right? So maybe kind of talk about the the kind of the difference there. And and most people hear that they kind of like, well, that's really simplistic. But but but you, you know, you may basically the argument like, hey, literally measuring the waistline could be a better way to to measure health.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Right, right. And and it is. So body mass index, you know, like I was just saying, it doesn't take into account the proportions of muscle and body fat that somebody has.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  So a very simple measure, and this has been studied a lot is, and I want to, let me back up just a little bit. I just want to say, a lot of people make this point about, that I just made about, okay, they're all the, you know, there are these athletes that, you know, that have a high body mass index, but they're in good health and so on. And it's, yeah, you know, sure, I agree. However, that just does not apply to most people. BMI is actually more likely to underestimate health risks because of this phenomenon of normal weight obesity, right? So people have

• 41:26Speaker 02

  high body fat and they look, according to BMI, they look normal when in fact they have high health risks. In any case, yeah, waist size is actually better. So if somebody is, their waist size should be one half or less of their height. And that is a better measure of metabolic and chronic disease risk than body mass index. So if somebody is six feet, six feet tall, they should have a 36 inch or less waist size to be healthy.

• 42:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's pretty crazy how, you know, once you start to wrap your head around this stuff, it's simple to understand what the benchmarks are and kind of where to fall. The hard work is in, is really disciplined. One of the things that I know a lot of people, so I was in the military, played football in college, and there was always kind of weird sayings that at the time seemed a little crazy, but, but as you learn more, may not be so crazy. So I literally would have a friend who would always say, I always will be able to run a sub seven minute mile. And I used to give him shit and say like, you know, why? And he said, you ever seen a fat person who can run sub seven minutes? Okay, like, you know, like, there's some truth to that, I guess.

• 42:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And then, uh, many of those people, both from the military and from, uh, from playing football, have now gone on to do a lot of this, like, high-intensity training. So whether it's CrossFit or other types of exercises, they have elements of strength training, but they also have kind of a cardiovascular element to them as well, packed into, you know, somewhat short 30 to 45-minute type workout. What's kind of your take on that? And how does that fit into kind of the, um, the exercise-type routines that, uh, that you think work best for people?

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's interesting. So, um, high-intensity training, you know, is a, is a relatively recent phenomenon as far as it has been studied by exercise physiologists and so on. And the results have been remarkable in, in the lab studies they've done on this. I mean, for example, one, one study, they, they had, they had people riding on a stationary bicycle. So they would go all out for, um, 30 seconds, I believe it was, and then have a, you know, then, then they would cycle leisurely for a few minutes and then do it again. So for a total of three all-out bouts on the exercise cycle.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Meanwhile, they had a group, um, on, also on an exercise bicycle, doing steady, you know, what, what we would see, like, what you would typically see when you walk into a gym, people pedaling on their cycle. So steady-state aerobic exercise for 45 minutes. So these, these groups each did three sessions a week, and in just a few weeks, the people that were literally only working out, I, I don't know what it came to, six minutes a week or something. Got just as fit as the people who who spent forty five minutes a day riding their their

• 44:50Speaker 02

  exercise bicycles. So by ramping up the intensity of the exercise, you you you decrease the the need for duration and and for frequency. So yeah, high intensity exercise is great. How that fits into my philosophy of exercise is high intensity resistance training. So that's that's the form I practice and that I advocate. And there are a lot of, you know, mistaken ideas about it, but because it doesn't necessarily people hear this word high intensity. And they think, oh, my God, you know, it's, you know, I'm not going to do that. And it

• 45:35Speaker 02

  but it does not necessarily involve what most people think of as heavy weights. And it doesn't involve moving quickly either. In fact, quite the opposite is slow movements, generally speaking, but it involves basically doing a set until momentary muscular failure, which means until you cannot do another rep. So this turns out to be a very good cardiovascular exercise as well, because it's a form of high intensity training. That's what I do. That's what I advocate.

• 46:12Anthony Pompliano?

  And so like, let's take a simple exercise like the bench press, right? Walk me through kind of how much weight, right? So fifty percent, one hundred percent of somebody's kind of one rep max. And then what does that look like from a number of reps that they normally would be able to do, right? So if somebody came to you and said, hey, I'm going to go bench press today, how do I do the high intensity resistance training? Like, what does that look like?

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Right, so as far as the weight goes, if somebody is moving to a high-intensity way of training, the choice of a weight is going to be a little bit of trial and error at first, as compared to, say, what they do on a one-repetition-max lift. In general, the first couple of reps should be relatively easy. You should be able to always move in good form. You should always be able to control the weight without heaving or jerking the weight around. Now, bench press is perhaps not the best example of what I want to illustrate here,

• 47:23Speaker 02

  and the reason for that is because in a bench press, you have the possibility of a barbell with weights getting stuck on your chest, and you don't want that to happen. So, you know, I always tell people that being free of injury is the most important thing you can do as far as any form of exercise. That's just the most important aspect of it. So if somebody wanted to do a bench press to momentary muscular failure, they should

• 48:00Speaker 02

  either have a spotter, or a chest press machine would probably be better for the average person. So they're going to move that weight in, you know, slowly and in good form, and do it until they can no longer do another repetition. Now, in terms of reps, repetitions are not the goal. Repetitions are a way of keeping count. So the number of repetitions that anyone can do is going to vary between, you know, the person who's doing it, how much weight they choose and so on.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  What you want to look at is time under tension and going to momentary muscular failure. So a fairly wide range of of time under tension is totally effective for building muscle and for getting fit. So I usually tell people, you know, 30 to 60 seconds, maybe a little more of time under tension is about where you want to be. Reps are a method of keeping count, not your goal, and always go to momentary muscular failure.

• 49:16Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Well, one of the things, and this is, it's been years since I looked at this. So you'll have to excuse me if I misspeak here, but there was a gentleman who I want to say was in Arizona. He was playing college football, I think maybe even went to the NFL. I do not think it was Pat Tillman, but it could have been him. There was somebody. And basically what they were doing is they were training with somebody who the entire thought process was that time under tension didn't have to only be arrived at through repetition, right? So if I wanted to, for example, put my pectoral muscles through time under tension,

• 49:58Anthony Pompliano?

  I could do that simply by going down into a push-up position, kind of at the most tension point and just holding it. And then I could hold it for 60 seconds, come out of it, and I would get the same, if not more, benefit than the person who sat down and did, you know, 10 or 15 reps at whatever the weight was. And I always thought that was interesting because to a layperson like me who has no scientific background other than what Google provides,

• 50:27Anthony Pompliano?

  it makes sense, right? But it was just very interesting because again, that was a different view of the world, but seemed to arrive at the same conclusion. So just interested on your thoughts there and if that has any validity or maybe it's been disproven at this point.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  No, it's absolutely correct. So what you're interested in is the muscle doing metabolic work. And so this actually leads to an interesting point of, you know, what is the purpose of lifting weights? So if you if you ask the average person, the average guy in the gym, you know, what you're supposed to do in the weight room, he says, well, it's to pick up a weight and to move it in a certain way and move it, you know, and move it back again. And I think that's that's an incorrect answer. The answer is you're supposed to load your muscle, you're load your muscles with tension

• 51:25Speaker 02

  and work your muscles with this tension until you you get to momentary muscular failure in order to put the proper stress on your muscles that will make them stronger and make them grow. So as far as what you're talking about, this, you know, being stationary, certainly you can go down into a push up position and as long as you're not locked out at the top, but if you're just halfway there, you are certainly putting your muscles under tension. You stay there, you are exercising them and you can provide the stimulus for your muscles to get stronger by doing that.

• 52:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's super interesting. And then I guess, you know, there's the diet and exercise component that we've talked about, but ultimately, a lot of this feeds into the anti-aging kind of talk tracker or thought process. And to me, anti-aging has kind of two components, right? The average person certainly wants to have a healthier life, right? So they think, hey, the average person dies around 77 years old, give or take. That's what I'm going to die, you know, based on the data. I want to be as healthy and happy as I can be for my 77 years here on earth and, you know, see you guys later. There is another group that basically says, if 77 is the average, I want to live to, you know, 150 and and kind of they actually want to extend life.

• 52:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Diet and exercise plays into both of those categories of longevity, correct?

• 53:03Speaker 02

  Right, sure. Yeah, so I'm sorry, did you want to complete that, what you were saying?

• 53:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, just like, how do you think about, let's take the first bucket first, right? It's like, hey, I want to be healthier for the time I am allotted here. Diet and exercise feeding into that is basically what you focused on, right?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Right. So, yes, this is a very interesting question. So, I think most people think about this in the wrong way.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  So, the idea of anti-aging or life extension, most people, the really most common reaction is, people think that means they're going to spend an extra decade in a nursing home. And that is absolutely not what we're talking about here. So, there are a couple of concepts. Well, there's a concept that I think is helpful in thinking about that, and that is health span. So, people talk about lifespan, you want to have a good health span too, right? The typical way that people live now that is that somewhere in middle age, they develop some health problems

• 54:20Speaker 02

  and they gradually go downhill for a long time, for decades, until finally they get to the end of the road. Ideally, you would want, I mean, we know we're all going to get to the end of the road someday, but ideally, you want to be as healthy as possible while you're doing it, so that any diseases that come along, they only come along at the end of life. And that pattern is, in fact, what you see in a lot of very long-lived people. They're quite healthy until 100 or something like that, and then they come down with something, and then that's it.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  So the other thing is, is that this is related to the first point is that anti-aging or life extension is necessarily about more years of healthy life, which even if it isn't a longer life, it necessarily means a healthy life. Most chronic diseases occur in older age, from middle age on up, and that indicates that they're all closely related to aging. So if you can postpone aging, you postpone all the diseases of aging. That's what it

• 55:42Speaker 02

  amounts to. It's not about more years in a nursing home. It's about extending years of healthy lifespan.

• 55:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And would it be fair to say that if you had to choose one or the other, health or a diet versus exercise, for most people, the simplest thing that would have the biggest impact is actually the diet side rather than the exercise side? Or do you feel like it is you have to have both?

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I, well, you know, if forced to choose, I would agree with that, that diet is the most important thing. And there are a couple of reasons. One is that the amount, a fairly small amount of exercise has large benefits. So, you know, you don't have to be an athlete or do all kinds of stuff to get large benefits, just as opposed to being sedentary. You know, of course, what I advocate is people do optimal exercise, and that's what I try to do with

• 56:47Speaker 02

  my resistance training and so on. But the fact is that you can get these large benefits from a small amount of exercise. On the other hand, there's an expression that people often use in my neck of the woods is you can't outrun a bad diet. And so, I mean, there are cases of athletes who have become diabetic because they're eating the wrong diet, you know, really high carbs. You know, back, back in the day when I used to do a lot of running, I mean, all, all the running magazines are telling you, eat all these carbs all the time, all the time. And, you know, I did that and people have

• 57:26Speaker 02

  done that and they, they have become diabetic despite a very high level of exercise. So, for those reasons, yeah, I, I would come down on diet as being the most important thing for most people.

• 57:40Anthony Pompliano?

  I think it was Von Miller, a Denver Broncos, an NFL player, a couple of years ago. He sat out a practice, right? And the media, of course, you know, hey, you're like the star player. Why are you sitting at a practice? And, and he very kind of embarrassingly went in front of the cameras and he said something to the effect of, I had mozzarella sticks yesterday. And, and the quote he used was, that's like putting regular gas in a Ferrari, right? It just, it's just gonna screw it up. And so he was basically saying, look, you know, I felt sick because I eat so healthy. I'm such this like, you know, elite athlete.

• 58:23Anthony Pompliano?

  And then I ate some shitty food and next thing you know, like literally I missed practice the next day. And, you know, look, that's not gonna happen to everyone, every single time, whatever. But it was just very, very kind of illuminating, I think. When I heard him say that, I said, look, the guy's super in tune with his body. And obviously it had an impact for an NFL player to miss a practice simply because of something he ate, you know, the day before, the night before.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, those guys need, need to be careful with what they eat. And I think most of them are. I, I, you know, read a lot about Tom Brady and his diet and he's very, very careful about it. So, yeah, it, it, it's very important, even, even at a high level of exercise, you, You know, there are some exceptions and maybe, you know, for for short periods of time, like the the swimmer, whose name escapes me at the moment, the the Olympic medalist, who is supposedly eating 12,000 calories a day. And and so, you know, maybe you can get away with that for a short time period of time.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  But, you know, this this phenomenon is real about not being able to outrun a bad diet.

• 59:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Before we go to wrap up, where where can people find out more about you and your work? Where where do you want to send them?

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Sure. So, thanks. I my website is called roguehealthandfitness.com. And I'm very active on Twitter. My handle is Mangan, that's my last name, Mangan150. And that's where they can find me.

• 1:00:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. I end each episode with the same two questions, and then you'll get to ask me a question to end and the episode. But the first one is, what is the most important book you've ever read?

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  That's a good question. I could say that a book that had a big impact on me was Thoreau by Walden by Thoreau, excuse me. I read that many times when I was young, and it impressed upon me the idea of living life, that life was to be lived.

• 1:00:43Anthony Pompliano?

  I love that. I thought I see in the background, the Bitcoin billionaires. I thought you were going to throw that out there.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Well, that's current reading, for sure.

• 1:00:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Ben Mesrick, the author's been on on the podcast, and he did a fantastic job with that one. But the the book Walden, what exactly is is it a fiction book? Is it a nonfiction?

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  It is nonfiction. It was written in 1843, I believe. And Henry David Thoreau is the author, and he went out to

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Live in a cabin on a lake in Walden Pond in Massachusetts. And he just wrote about spending a year there. And it's very philosophical. And there are a number of quotes from the book that you probably find familiar, like "The mass of men lead lives in quiet desperation." There's another one about marching to a different drummer. So these come from that book. It's about living life as you see fit. About another quote, "You don't want to come to the end of your life and find out that you have not really lived."

• 1:02:08Anthony Pompliano?

  That is a very, very true statement, for sure. We spent a lot of time talking about humans. And the last question I ask is a more fun one about aliens. Believer or non-believer?

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Non-believer.

• 1:02:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow, okay. Why a non-believer?

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Because the evidence shows, the evidence points to the idea that human beings may be unique in the universe as far as intelligent life goes. So there may very well, and probably is, some form of life elsewhere. But as far as intelligent life, I would ask the question that Enrico Fermi asked, "Where are they?"

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  I mean, if...

• 1:03:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Fair question.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  There are billions of galaxies and vast space. And it's all been in existence for billions of years. Why haven't we heard from anybody? Why isn't there any sign of anything?

• 1:03:27Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that is the most compelling anti-alien argument that there is. I've had, you know, hundreds of people at this point, I've asked this question to on the podcast. And I'd say 95% of people believe and they basically sum it up to like, it would be ignorant for us to not believe in the world is so vast and you know, they kind of all that. But there's only one answer that I ever hear on the anti-belief side that makes sense to me. And it's that, which is, hey, they're not real until we find them, right? Or they find us.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  Right, right. They're, they're, they're just, you know, you couple that with some theoretical thinking about the, the, the odds of intelligent life evolving and so on. And the fact that, that we don't have any evidence for that. And there ought to be abundant evidence, one would think. So, so at the moment, I'm, I'm in the negative camp.

• 1:04:28Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. I love it. What, uh, what's the one question you have for me to, to wrap this up?

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Um, I am curious about your, your workday. You seem to be incredibly hardworking. You put out your letter five days a week. You do regular podcasts. I think maybe five, five a week or so. How the hell do you do it?

• 1:04:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I, um, I have this, uh, a weird framework. I, somebody asked me this recently. So, uh, I, I have an advantage in that I took some time to think about it. And what I told them was, uh, I've really compartmentalized my day. Um, and there's a certain rhythm to it. And I know myself well enough. Uh, I take the, uh, the letter I write every morning. The day that I stop writing that, it's over. Like, like the streak's broken, I'll, I'll be done. Right? And so I just know every day I gotta write something. And no matter what happens, I gotta write it. Uh, and then I'll worry about tomorrow. If tomorrow's gonna be the day I say.

• 1:05:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Stop, right? And then on the video on the podcast stuff like I get to learn from people who have spent like, you know, take yourself, for example, you spend a bunch of time thinking about things that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about. I probably should spend more time. And so you helped me just kind of cheat a little bit in that you downloaded all your information to me. Right? And it just so happens that we recorded it and a bunch of other people are going to listen. So I think that it's, it's all really around learning and I generally enjoy doing that. And so it's kind of like, I would spend my time doing this, even if no one was reading it or listening. At the same time,

• 1:06:19Anthony Pompliano?

  you, who is it? Jaco Willink, I think, has a thing of like, discipline equals freedom, right? And it's this idea of just, I know every day, here's how my day is split up. I know exactly how to kind of allocate that time. People who are close to me will tell you, I will get a little annoyed if I feel like it's off, right? So if all of a sudden I realize, hey, I don't have the letter written by a certain time, I know I'm behind. And then it's like, I better speed this up before everything else gets set off. And so when you kind of get in a rhythm and have some sort of process and have some discipline around it, it's come second nature, right? It's like, I literally don't even, I don't even know what I would do in the morning if I didn't write the letter, right?

• 1:07:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Cause I've just been doing it for so long that it's just like, well, duh, of course I do that. But at the same time, I have had friends who, I've got one who actually works for, works with a gentleman who writes a very popular email every day. And he's got five people working on it. And I asked him, what the hell do you guys all do? Right? I like, I like literally if I had five people, I don't even know what I would have them do. They would all sit there and watch me write pretty much, right? Like, that would be kind of weird. So I do think that it, it's like anything, right? If you enjoy doing it, it's not even work. It's just like, I'm excited to have the conversations or, or to write the stuff and, and, you know,

• 1:07:45Anthony Pompliano?

  every once in a while I get reminded like, that's not normal. But you know, there's things that you do every single day that, that I'm like, wow, that's not normal, but to you is, is second nature and something you enjoy.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Right, that's great, your explanation is great.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  I really admire what you do and we are in a sense, you and I are in a sense in the same space and that we're both online. This is all relatively new. I mean, up until a year ago, I was working my day job, you know, as well as doing all this other stuff. Now I'm doing this exclusively, so I really like to see how somebody like yourself goes about it. It's similar to what I do, although you sound like more disciplined than I am. And, yeah.

• 1:08:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, what I would say too is I think the tools have changed, right? You know, so if you just take literally everything from emails to podcasts, all this kind of stuff. Like, there was a day and age. One of the things that really surprised me but was very kind of cool to hear was Joe Rogan recently had Tom Green, the Canadian comedian, who was, you know, a bunch of movies and stuff back in the day, come on his podcast. And the reason why he did that was that Tom Green used to have a show, like literally like a TV station basically, out of his house. And Joe Rogan went on as a guest in like 2007.

• 1:09:21Anthony Pompliano?

  And there was a clip that went viral recently from that day that they recorded. And Joe Rogan's like a little kid in a candy store. He's like looking around and he's like, "Oh my God, dude, this is awesome." Like, "Oh my God, you turned your house into, you know, a video set."

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Light bulb goes off.

• 1:09:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and he's got a server and like, and you can just see the wheels were spinning. And so he credits Tom Green and two or three other people with really pushing him down the path of creating what eventually became the podcast he runs. And so when Tom Green came back recently, they had this whole conversation where he was literally buying servers and putting them in his house. And every six months, it seemed like there was new technology and his was outdated and he had to have a whole staff. And he basically was running a television production studio, right?

• 1:10:10Anthony Pompliano?

  And then YouTube was born and now you and I can record a video and put it on YouTube. Right? And like, like we're spoiled compared to just 15 years ago, what somebody would have to do. And so I do think that like the technology kind of advancement that that evolution cycle uh has put us at a time and place in the world where like we can do this pretty effortlessly in terms of like, we can just focus on the content and we don't have to worry about a lot of the infrastructure because there's so many solutions. You know, everything from Amazon as a marketplace to Shopify to um, you know, email providers, all kinds of stuff.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I I feel incredibly fortunate to, you know, be able to take advantage of it. Um, I mean, there there was, I think I was uh forty-three the first time I went on the internet. I mean, it wasn't around, you know, so uh, you know, now I, you know, I get a laptop and I go online and and there you go. It doesn't, doesn't require a lot else. It's, it's fantastic.

• 1:11:14Anthony Pompliano?

  I love that. I I uh, I could not imagine having never been, right? So I'm thirty-two, have never been on the internet and then go another ten years and that's the first time you get on the internet? Like, the idea that I can use this thing to get access to information, to people, to all these different things had to be just a wild experience.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it it was, it was very wild for me. I mean, I I I used to, I remember going on and thinking, wow, like, there's a webcam in the Antarctic. Oh, my God, you know, that is incredible and I can see what's going on there right now, you know? You know, little did I know what was to come, but uh, you know, be before that, uh, you you know, to get information, you had to go to a library, which I did, of course. Uh, but but now, I mean, you know, the world is, the world is out there at your fingertips and as far as the business aspect of it goes, I mean, you know, yeah, it's great.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I I I think you mentioned Joe Rogan. I mean, what he's done is just astounding to me. And um, you know, you're, you're perhaps on your way to Rogendom there, you know, with what you're doing. I think that's great. And um, so. I'm always interested in seeing it, you know, really admire what you're doing.

• 1:12:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. Well, I am just as much of a fan of your work as well. So I think people will really enjoy this and as you as you keep going, want to do it again in the future.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much.

• 1:12:54Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Thanks for listening to that episode. I hope you enjoyed it just as much as I did. My goal is to educate as many people with these conversations as possible. So please go subscribe on your favorite podcast channel, leave a five star rating and a review. These things really help the podcast get higher up on popularity charts, which ultimately brings more people to learn. Also, don't forget you can go to YouTube to watch each conversation in video format as well. Just search my name, Anthony Pompliano, on YouTube and you'll find our channel with hundreds of awesome and informative videos. Thanks again for listening to this one and I'll see you for the next one.