JRE MMA Show #186 with Sean Sharaf

Joe sits down with Sean Sharaf, a professional mixed martial artist competing in the UFC’s heavyweight division. Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  What's going on, man?

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  This is Joe Rogan.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  How you feeling?

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  I feel incredible, brother.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  You must be.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  It's been one hell of a week. It's been crazy.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  It has to be the craziest week of your life, right? Or up to it?

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  By, I mean, this is, this is pretty, pretty up there. It's been some crazy weeks.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  So talk me through this. When did you get the, uh, the offer for the fight? How long out?

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  So they had mentioned possibly me fighting him on the White House. They asked me. That was the, the, the ally, he had reached out to me. He's like, hey, like, they, they talking about possibly getting you on the White House. They know you're a Marine and whatnot. They want Gable Stevenson. And I was like, fucking, I don't care. I've been watching Gable since he was coming up on the regional scene, since you were talking about him and everyone was all hyped about him. And so I kinda already knew we were gonna cross paths, but it wasn't until, um, I was requesting to get on the LA card. I heard they were coming to LA and I kept saying, hey, I want LA, I want LA. And they're just like, alright, you got LA, you're fighting Gable.

• 1:10Speaker 00

  So there was a conversation about the White House card. So this is June, that's when it first came up. And so how did it wind up taking place in September?

• 1:17Joe Rogan?

  Uh, well, I just never heard back. They talked about it, they were like, would you take it? And I was like, sure. And I think, I think maybe they were trying to get Jones on there too, possibly. I think that might've been what it was.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  I think Dana was hesitant.

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28Speaker 00

  To get John on there.

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And, and so I think it was like a, oh, if I'm not going, then maybe Gable's not gonna. I don't know what it was, but they just, I just, that was the first time I was approached like, hey, would you be open to fighting him on the White House? And I was like, of course.

• 1:42Speaker 00

  And so how long out did they tell you about the LA card?

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Uh, about six weeks, but I had already been in camp, cause I was supposed to fight Ty Tuivasa. And I had to pull out, cause my nose got broken in that camp. So I was basically in, in the camp for the Thai fight, and then I went straight into that, into the, the next camp as soon as I got cleared to start sparring and, and stuff. But I was still training the whole time. I was running, I was, I went full fucking, I, I retained my seed, I was fucking.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  Did you really?

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bro, I went full eight weeks, no, no, no jerking out, no sex, no nothing. I went full like Marine mode. That's why you guys saw that, that mat on the ground in the studio, was because I was like, I was like really fucking going to it. I ended up getting air mattress after I texted Strickland, cause he's like, yeah. And, um.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  You were sleeping on a mat?

• 2:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Tell people about that.

• 2:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, basically because I, I have, um, obviously my, all my finances are out there already. I can't, I didn't have anything in my name, so I've been, I've been bouncing around from fighter houses, there's Fighter House LV they started out, and, um, it's like 40 bucks a room you get. And I was also staying in the casinos, fucking gambling, doing a bunch of dumb shit. And, um, stayed in my car a few times, bouncing back and forth with my mom. It was just a, a little bit of a chaotic situation. And, uh, I got a, the spot, I, I got a front from my management, they, they gave me four grand, cause that's, cause I was basically was in California and I stayed out there with my mom and I had to come back out here for the camp. And I was like, hey, I need funds, can you guys get me in? They fronted me four grand on my purse and they said, hey, um, get, get whatever you want.

• 3:12Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they weren't very involved, like, if I'm being honest. I kinda had to figure it out on my own, like. And, um, yeah, I had a friend, he got me a sublease, got me in that spot and I just fucking.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Well, it's such a crazy Rocky story.

• 3:24Joe Rogan?

  I know, and it feels like a fucking movie. Like, so I'm saying it, I don't even know, like, I'm like, bro, like, people aren't gonna believe this shit. Like, I gotta fucking show the receipts, you know, like, I'm gonna show you some fucking shit.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  I mean, I've never experienced something like that, but it has to be like, right now, even it's hard to believe that you did what you did.

• 3:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I, I like believed I was gonna win, like, I was telling myself, but it was, I believed it was gonna be a war. I believed it was gonna be, my whole game plan was like, he, he, sure, he might get the takedown, you're gonna stay in his fucking face. I was, I was screaming the fucking affirmation, the John Jones speech, when he's like fucking, when he told DC, and he was all like, there's nothing you could do to stop me from coming after you round after round with the most malicious techniques I know. We'll lose this fight, Gable Stevenson, we'll lose this fight. And I will, and I was just like, just, just telling myself that I was gonna go through hell for this, you know? Because all my previous fights, it was first round knockouts, all, all my victories, first round knockouts. And it kinda gave me the delusion that I'm just, touch guys and they're gonna fall.

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  But then when I got to the UFC, like, I had that, that loss with Tafa, and I had Asplin, I fucking kept cracking him, he wouldn't fall. And then, um, I kinda started doubting my power a little bit, kinda started like questioning like, hey, like, fucking, can I do this? And so like, when I just hit him with that left hook and he fell, I was just like, I started cussing, I jumped on, I was fucking, bro, I was like, what the fuck is going on, man?

• 4:46Speaker 00

  You were, uh, he was a minus 2,400 favorite.

• 4:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's a disrespect.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Was it 2,400 or? Yeah, it was. That's what it was? Okay. I just wanna be really clear about that. That's a crazy number.

• 5:01Joe Rogan?

  For heavyweight.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  For heavyweight. It might be the biggest, at least bookmaker odds, it might be the biggest upset in the history of sport.

• 5:10Joe Rogan?

  That's what they're saying?

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 5:12Joe Rogan?

  And even with Holly Holm and Ronda Rousey, it was just like.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Holly Holm was dangerous. She was a multiple time world kickboxing champion, multiple time world boxing champion, you know, she was a legitimate striker. That, you know, I could see Holly being, you know, a 10 to 1 dog or something like that, but this was, yeah.

• 5:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it was the fact, I was coming off of two losses, like, uh, like, bro, I lost my discipline a lot, you know, coming up grinding for this and, uh.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Here it is, let's watch it again.

• 5:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  So you just know it's real.

• 5:44Joe Rogan?

  Boom.

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  That's me.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  One more time. Boom. Oh, the way the head snaps back too. Oh. What did it feel like, like, when you're standing there, holding your arms up? Were you like in space? Were you in another galaxy?

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  Everything just felt like so euphoric. Like, even like, I haven't seen the clips, I remember I, I shook Jones' hand and his hand before they left, but like, everyone's saying like, are you sure you did that? Because like, I vividly remember, like, before they walked out and, and everyone started booing, like, I shook their hand, uh, I shook his, like, that was it, I didn't say anything. And, um, but like, bro, everything just feels like, I haven't even gotten the chance to digest it, like, I've been just going this whole week, like, doing interviews after interviews and Zoom, and it's like, I'm so exhausted, like, I just wanna go to a mountain or to the desert and fucking take some mushrooms with my dog and just fucking like, process what the fuck is going on, man?

• 6:54Speaker 00

  That probably might be a good idea too, so you can stay on the course. You know, because one of the problems with like a big event or a big moment is you can be defined by that big event and big moment, and that big moment can be like a centerpiece in your life instead of the path. Right? So the path you're on is getting better as an MMA fighter, achieving like world-class status, fighting for a title eventually. That's the path.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

  Is it though, Joe?

• 7:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, why not?

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why I wanna ask you, cause like, I, I mean.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  Bro, if you can do that.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's making it seem like this is just a fucking lucky punch, one shot, and like, my, so this is my thing, is I've always taken, been taking my journey fight by fight, like, I didn't, like, I got out the Marine Corps and I was like, hey, like, I wanna be a UFC fighter and like, it wasn't like, oh, I wanna be a champion, you know? It was just like, I just wanted to be in the organization and wear the uniform and just be able, be able to fucking say I did that. And the fact that I just lost like those two times, like, fuck, it's like, they gave me the uniform, but it didn't feel like it. And so now like to do this, the, people are saying possibly the biggest upset in history, fucking in my home, like, fucking against all odds of my, like, it, it's like, can I beat that? Like, do I, you leave the table when you're up, that's what they say, you know, like, fucking like.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Are you thinking about doing that? Are you thinking about leaving the table?

• 8:12Joe Rogan?

  I'm, I'm, I'm, I told, I'm not gonna, I told Micah, the psych at the, the PI, I told my Sergey, my training partner, I told GoCor, I told all these guys, I was like, hey, bro, if I win this fight, the way, like, the way I'm visualizing, I like, I might be good with that, because this is fucking like, that was it, you know? And I don't, I don't know, like fucking.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Just cause it was such a big moment?

• 8:32Joe Rogan?

  Just if, no, it's the fact of what I had to go to get, cause like, brother, I've had zero sponsors, I got zero promo, I got zero, like, any kind of like, support throughout this whole thing, like, even like with the coaching, you know, like, my corner, like, I was scrambling to figure that out, you know? And it was just like, I had to beg for so much fucking help throughout this, but it just made me fucking like, no, it was just to put a little sour taste in my mouth, I was like, bro, like, fucking like, for what? Like, and then on top of that, I got fucking CT scan, they're saying I got some fucking brain matter and shit, I'm fucking stitched up from head to toe, I got fucking all types of injuries, like, and I'm like, bro, what, what am I doing if we're just fucking for more money? For, for a belt, like, what, what am I doing for? That's why I'm trying to figure out the answers myself.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  That's interesting. Well, if that's the case, then definitely go take mushrooms with your dog.

• 9:21Joe Rogan?

  I'm like, maybe you can help me, advise me here.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  The decision is always going to be entirely yours because it's dependent entirely upon who you are, where you are, and I don't know that. I don't know where you're at in your life. I don't know where you're at with your mind. I don't know. There's nothing wrong with you walking away right now if you choose to do that. So you have to think about it. And I think a moment like that, like I said, was so big, you have to let it settle before you decide what you're gonna do. There's a lot of people, there's a bunch of different ways to approach fighting. And I think one of the, one of the worst ways is to chase glory. You know, because glory does come to the greats in, in, in that glory, you know, the glory that Justin Gagey got when he beat Iliya Taporia at the White

• 10:07Speaker 00

  House. No one's ever gonna experience that. The greatest moments in the history of combat sports. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. We all have little things we do to save ourselves time, like shopping online, or paying kids from the neighborhood to rake up all those leaves sitting in the front yard. Or if you're hiring, you rely on ZipRecruiter. They match you with qualified candidates as soon as you post your job. Now that's how you save time. Try it yourself for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. It's rated the number one hiring site based on G2 for a reason. Because on top of the qualified candidates, it also shows you the most interested ones first.

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• 12:42Joe Rogan?

  That was my logic too, because like when I saw that the Gagey upset, I was like, bro, like, what more do you have to prove? Like, you just shocked the fucking world.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, he could, he could certainly walk, especially Gagey. He's had this insane career, incredible career. He could definitely walk away now and be one of the all-time greats. But Connor, for instance, like Connor's last fight, like, it seemed like Connor was doing it to show that he could still do it. Seemed, and I don't know, you know, I didn't talk to him. I haven't had a conversation with him as a person. But it seemed like he wanted to be on top again. He wanted to show that he could go out there and still beat a world-class fighter like Max Holloway, and just show that he could do it. And you gotta wonder, is that the best motivation for a guy that's worth half a billion dollars and is fucking living in the lap of luxury and?

• 13:35Joe Rogan?

  No, he's just chasing the high. He's like, I just wanna go out on top.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Is he chasing the high versus is he chasing the dream? So, like, when he knocked out Jose Aldo, he was chasing the dream. He was a juggernaut. He was storming through the division. He was knocking everybody out. He looked like this guy that had this phenomenal talent and this special charisma, and he looked like a guy who is chasing this, this thing, this dream, his dream of becoming a world champion. So then you achieve it. And then I think the big derailment was the Floyd Mayweather fight, right? He leaves MMA, trains boxing for, has a great performance against Floyd Mayweather, one of the greatest boxers of all time. Does 10 rounds with him, which is fucking insane.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  Did you see my video with him before the fight?

• 14:19Speaker 00

  No.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  I went viral with Floyd. I ran into him at Lifetime and I was like-

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 14:24Joe Rogan?

  Because I started promoting myself. So like, that was the issue. Like, I kept seeing these collabs and these promos with Gable. And I was like, bro, what the fuck, man? Like, why is no one pushing me? So I started, like, just going outside the PI. And I was like, I did my own promo. And then, like, just the odds, like, the next day, I ran to Floyd at the fucking, at the Lifetime. And I was like, hey, man, let me get a quick video, fucking, to promote my fight and whatnot. So it's just ironic he's a Floyd.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  That's funny. That's funny. Well, that's just to be expected. You gotta realize, Gable is, first of all, Olympic gold medalist, one of the greatest heavyweight wrestlers the United States ever produced, right? And then he goes on to be undefeated in MMA, wins that fight in dirty boxing, he's an athletic freak, and he's being trained by John Jones.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  But who did he beat on the regional scene? That's what didn't impress me. He got wheel-kicked in Mexico. The guy was like 1-0 there. He's being like, because I was 4-0 on the regional scene too.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  No, you're 100% correct in that regard. But he couldn't get any fights. Nobody any good wanted to fight him. Because he's Gable. Because he's this insane freak wrestler, and they wanna win. And they wanna make their way through, you know, whatever regional circuit it is, get a really good record, and get some experience before they get into the UFC. They don't wanna get flatlined. They don't wanna get beat up and smashed. They want, you know, they want, and a good manager treats their fighters that way. A good manager says, listen, you're not ready for that yet. We're gonna get you this guy. Don't get beat by him yet. You can eventually beat him, but we have to develop these skills. We have to develop these techniques. We have to get you some seasoning. You have to get some hard fights against some really tough guys. You know what the

• 15:57Speaker 00

  fucking basement feels like. You gotta know what it's like to be in the dungeon, you know?

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  He wasn't in the dungeon.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Wasn't in the dungeon.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  They were fucking coddling him and pampering him and-

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Well, I think also, when you're that good of an athlete, and you've had that much success in wrestling, which is, you know, the celebrated incredible sport, and then you enter into MMA with all that hype and fanfare, you start to believe that you are special. And you're invincible, and you're not a regular human being with very good skills. Because that's what he is, a regular human being with very good skills. And you showed it. You showed it with a fucking perfect left hook. When you stepped outside, and then, it was everything in that left hook. It was pretty, it was technical, it was perfect. And he was reaching at the time, too.

• 16:44Joe Rogan?

  And that was the other thing, he was closing his eyes. And that was the saw on the replay. And that comes because he isn't sparred enough. He hasn't had that experience of fucking being in the fire over and over again.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  He's only been striking for like a year and a half. That's crazy.

• 16:58Joe Rogan?

  That's why when they asked me, they tried to make it seem like I was talking shit. They're like, are you impressed by Gable? I was like, no, I'm not impressed. Like, what are you not impressed about? I'm like, what the fuck? He's an Olympic gold medalist, but what, this is fighting. And we're gonna fight.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, his first fight, he got tagged a bunch. The first fight in the UFC. And that guy fought well. He hit him with some good shots. That guy was there to win. He just, he just, you know, was overwhelmed. Gable got him. But that fucking left hook changed the landscape of the universe, dude. That left hook changed your life, changed the world.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there were so many people that, even before the fight, they're like, if you beat Gable, I'm gonna name my kid after you. Like, I'm putting my mortgage down. Like, I was like, I don't know if these comments are real, but like, there were so many people messaging me and commenting, like, and even like with the press conference, like, they were telling me, like, please bring up, please bring up his past, please bring up his past, you know? And I was all like, shit. But I fought for my freedom of speech, man. I don't give a fuck. I'll say whatever I want, you know?

• 17:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a lot. Like, the whole, the whole buildup to a fight is so much. There's so much talking. There's so many people talking at you, and there's so many narratives, and there's so many people, like, you could get your brain really fucking scrambled during those things, including him, like, believing the hype, or anybody believing the hype.

• 18:17Joe Rogan?

  What was crazy was, we weren't even supposed to be on the press conference, or even on the main card, until Ortega fell out. And that was like, that felt like divine intervention, bro. Because I was just like, oh my god. Like, I thought I was, I was gonna get the press conference. And when I got to Fight Week, it was like, there was, I wasn't on there. And then that next day, they were like, oh, no, you're on, you're main card, you're going, you're going to the press conference. So maybe that, I wouldn't have gotten in his head if I didn't get in the press conference, you know? Because that was, that was strategic. Like, I was saying in interviews before, like, that's psychological warfare. It's fair and love and war. And it's like, if you don't know how to handle that, I mean, like, like I said, I just brought, brought things to light. Like, that was all I did. And if you, if you like, and let that get under your skin, like-

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Who knows if it let it get under his skin? I mean, even if there was nothing going on, you might have still hit him with that exact same punch. I think there's a, there's a gap in experience, and there's a gap in striking ability. I mean, he obviously is an incredible athlete, and he's very good at being the hammer. You know, he can unload combinations on guys. We've seen it, you know, we saw it in dirty boxing. But striking, you know as well as anybody, it is a fucking complicated thing that takes a long time to figure out. There's a lot of elements to it. There's a lot of knowledge, foot placement, where to be, where not to be, what to do, what not to do. You get caught doing something, you need a really good coach to explain to you how you got caught, and never get caught like that again, because you need to do this, or you need to do that.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Make sure your foot is outside the line. Make sure your head's off the center line. There's a bunch of different shit that takes fucking forever for your brain to absorb. And then absorb to the point where you can, it just memory, muscle memory, inside of chaos and combat.

• 19:56Joe Rogan?

  I truly felt in flow state when I had, I was not thinking. Like, I didn't go out like, oh, I'm gonna throw the two. The whole game plan was like, don't over-respect the wrestling, and put hands on this motherfucker. Like, that was, that was, that was the game plan. Like, like, obviously, like, I knew, like, he might get the takedown. But like I said, I was just telling myself, you're gonna get up. You're gonna get up. You're gonna fucking stay in his face over and over again.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  I think a big flaw that he did in both the first fight and the fight with you is, I don't even think he was thinking about taking you down. Which is really crazy.

• 20:26Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna be shooting his next fight, that's for sure.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, I would imagine. I would imagine.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  I would imagine that would be a good idea. I mean, it's one of your number one skill set. It's crazy. It's like Wonder Boy deciding not to kick. Like, what?

• 20:41Joe Rogan?

  But it's also because like he was getting praised, like he was constantly being told like, he's the greatest thing. He's knocking these guys out. Even Dana, like after the press conference in his first fight, he was just like praising him like, oh, like he's striking with guys, knocking guys out when he could be using his wrestling. And like, I think it just like got to him. And when I knew I had him was when I saw he booked that RAF fight during the fight camp. He went and did an RAF fight like a few weeks, RAF wrestling match a few weeks before our fight. I was like, this motherfucker is not taking me seriously. This motherfucker going to book fucking wrestling? And I'm over there getting my ass beat fucking every day, fucking with Sergey Spivak.

• 21:20Joe Rogan?

  Blagojev was working with me, fucking Iwan Kutilaba, like, and I had to wear my headgear because my nose was broken and that thing was like suffocating me. And these guys were just putting me in the worst positions over and over again, starting from fucking bottom, fucking pick me up. Matt returns, slam me back down. Brother, that's what it felt. I love Rocky, man.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  You're a Rocky story, man. You are a real live Rocky story. 100%, man.

• 21:46Joe Rogan?

  It feels unreal.

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• 22:30Speaker 00

  prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. See app for details. But even Rocky didn't end that way. Like, step in, boom, 12 seconds. Crazy, man. Crazy.

• 22:47Joe Rogan?

  It really felt like it was just karma and divine intervention. Because the way he was disrespecting me too, man, he called me a coward, saying like, he's the reason that I'm there and fucking, my hotel room is paid because of Gable Stevman. What's up with him talking in third person? I know maybe he's your boy. And I saw him on here before, but this dude's talking about third person all the time. Like, what the fuck is up with that?

• 23:10Speaker 00

  The third person stuff is very weird. You know who used to do that? Who I love? Who used to do that all the time is Roy Jones. Roy Jones Jr. is gonna do what Roy Jones Jr. wants to do. Is he here right now? Is Roy in the room with us? That's a strange thing that people do, that third person thing. It is odd. It's like an elitist thing, you know?

• 23:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, like I said, he's just thinking he's all that. So, I'm just so, I'm glad I could bring him back down to reality because like...

• 23:35Speaker 00

  It's probably good for him too, if he decides to actually continue and pursue his career and become a world champion. That might be a blessing in disguise because it was a fight that allowed him to recognize that the skills that he has in wrestling, other people have similar skills in striking and similar skills in all the other aspects of MMA. And then, you know, there's no shortcuts. Just because you're a really good wrestler, doesn't mean you're an elite kickboxer. You know, it just doesn't, it doesn't translate. You have to learn those things.

• 24:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes, sir.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  And, you know, a guy becomes amazing because of his accomplishments, but before those accomplishments, you're not necessarily amazing yet. And his accomplishments were all in a completely different discipline. I mean, it translates. It's one of the most important disciplines, probably the most important discipline for MMA if you use it, right? If you use it. It's probably like the ability to take a guy down and control a guy, it stifles all striking, right? If he just decided to avoid you standing up and then shoot and he got you down, we're talking about a whole different fight, right?

• 24:35Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, but when you get it in your head...

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  Ain't no rematch though, buddy. Everyone's like, what's next? When's the rematch? Fuck you, you're gonna sleep with that. Motherfucker, motherfucker's not getting his dick up for fucking weeks, man. I took his soul. You heard the whole David Goggins when he said that shit? He's like, yeah, you're like, fucking, live with that for a little bit, bro.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  Well, psychologically, it's why would you, why would you schedule a rematch quickly? If at all? Like, there's no reason. First of all, on paper, it's 12 seconds. It's not, it's not like a controversial decision, right? Controversial decisions warrant a rematch. You know, really good war, goes to the judges, could have gone either way. That makes sense. 12-second knockouts don't get rematches. That doesn't make any sense. That makes zero sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. He's gonna have to figure out why he's deciding to strike and then really tighten up his striking. He's gonna have to watch that film footage and see what he did wrong. You know, there's a bunch of different striking analysts have broken down the video and you know, you could see, you did everything right and he didn't. Real simple, you know?

• 25:40Speaker 00

  And he's a human and you're a big motherfucker and you got a big motherfucker with a big left hook. And you land that on virtually any human being alive. You catch him on the chin like that? Where their head snaps back like that?

• 25:53Joe Rogan?

  It's like 10 pounds of pressure. That's all you need to tip the chin, right?

• 25:55Speaker 00

  It was a lot more than 10. You snapped his head back. But, you know, listen, guys have come back from knockouts like that and become all-time greats. You know, look at Michael Bisping. Michael Bisping gets flatlined by Henderson and then goes on to become an all-time great and wins the middleweight title, knocks out Luke Rockwell, defended it against Henderson.

• 26:16Joe Rogan?

  And I said in my post-fight interview, like, I kept it classy. I was like, hey, look, like, this is gonna make him better. Like, this is, but like, right now I'm on my victory lap and I'm gonna talk some shit because the motherfucker disrespected the fuck. His whole team disrespected. Like, Jones driving around with him in the Mercedes, like, tonight we collect a head, you know? Like, bro, what? Like, come on, Jones. Like, you of all people know not to underestimate someone. You're like, come on, man, like...

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Well, John's a different guy. He's a different athlete.

• 26:40Joe Rogan?

  But they made him, they made him think that he was next John Jones.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  I know.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  And John Jones is a different fuck. I've studied John Jones my whole fucking life, man. Like, you saw the picture with me and him? Like, that we took?

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:52Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, this is gonna be, and I was like, this is gonna be my exam, you know? And I can't even show you the DMs that I've sent. I'm like, fucking, I told him like this was gonna happen, you know? For him to be there, fucking front row, and then that viral reaction of his, my goodness, man.

• 27:05Speaker 00

  It was crazy. I mean, unreal. Yeah. You can't pretend that you're the guy that you're hanging out with. That's a bad thing. Yes, sir. John is a very unique athlete though. I mean, he's a one of one.

• 27:18Joe Rogan?

  He's the GOAT.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  I mean, what he did to Cyril Gahn, I just watched that fight again. It's fucking insane. Cyril never touched him. He got a hold of Cyril, dragged him to the ground, strangled him, tap, tap, that's it, that's a wrap, walked away, didn't get scratched. And then now you have Cyril Gahn's the heavyweight champion of the world. And you see what he did to Pereira, you see what he did, at least in the first round before the eye pokes to Aspinall. It's like, Cyril Gahn's a special athlete and John made him look unspecial. But Gable's not that. He's not the same guy. He's not that guy, you know? Takes a long fucking time to be John Jones. Also, when John Jones became John Jones, he became John Jones slowly. I mean, it was quick in terms of like, he was the quickest ever to become, yeah, I think 22.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  He became the youngest ever UFC champion, but, but there's a long process in getting there. Like, he didn't have that. He fought Gusman, he fought, he fought Guskov, he fought Stefan Bonner. He fought a bunch of guys and started looking like, like this guy might be something very unique. And then he beat Shogun and wins the title and then just goes on this, just fucking epic, legendary tear.

• 28:30Joe Rogan?

  And just the people he beat, like...

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, he beat everybody. He beat everybody and he beat everybody when he wasn't training.

• 28:34Joe Rogan?

  I have a photo of like that, from that expo with he signed, with, it's like Machida unconscious. And he's like, I'm like, fucking, I've had that in my room fucking forever.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  That was one of the coldest victories in the history of the sport. He chokes Machida unconscious and then drops him. Just standing up, choked him unconscious, dropped him, and just walked away. Just falls down in a heap.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Cold. But, you know, that's the problem. You know, you're hanging out with a guy who's the GOAT and you start thinking you're the next guy. Like, you might be, you could be, if you do the right things, but if you believe it before it happens, like, you have to be cautious, but also confident. Like, there's this dance of the mind. There's so much going on to be an elite fighter. You know, you have to be aware that you could, look at Kamaru Usman, beaten Leon Edwards for four rounds. All of a sudden, one head kick, boom, lost the title. Never the same guy again. Because you're human. You're a fucking human being. As tough as Kamaru is, he's a fucking human being. And it's just this wild dance of possibilities,

• 29:42Speaker 00

  but it's also one of the reasons why people love the sport so much. Like, what you did elevated the whole sport. It really did. Because when you can see a guy who's a giant favorite and everybody's thinking he is the, and I thought, oh, like, this guy has a potential to be an all-time great. Like, he's an Olympic gold medalist. We've seen that before. You get a guy who's an elite wrestler like Daniel Cormier, there's a lot of examples of guys who are elite wrestlers, and they become all-time greats. Randy Couture...

• 30:09Speaker 00

  You changed everything, changed everything. One punch, boom.

• 30:12Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:13Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  Let's feel good.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  One punch could really change your life. And they say, no, I'm, I feel amazing. I feel incredible. Like, just the fact I'm here, like, there's another thing I have to, like, I learned more from your podcast than I have the entire public education system. Brother, I would sit on post, because I was at NBC Security Yard, and we'd be on duty, and I would just have your podcast playing in the background. And I would listen to all your guests. Like, I started learning about the subconscious mind, like, through, like, Billy Carson, and like, another guy, 19 Keys, Joe Dispenza, some of these, and like, like, all of that, like, it really has helped mold me into who I am, just like, from the types, like,

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  you had, I don't know all the names, but you had the guests on Sleep, Huberman, like, bro, like, it's just so, so many variables, like, that you've brought that, like, you are truly, like, educating so many people, like, with what you've done, man. It's fucking incredible.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Well, I'm happy you enjoyed it. I'm happy it helped you. And I'm happy I get to do it.

• 31:10Joe Rogan?

  The Fight Companions? I would sit, I would sit on posts and fucking watch Fight Companions, and you have fucking Eddie Bravo and shit, man. It's cool, man. It's fucking awesome to be here.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  Well, it's cool that you're here right now and in celebration, you know?

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Kinda wild.

• 31:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, really wild.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  So, like, we were saying before, like, these big moments, they're so big, they can kinda overwhelm you. I think you're very wise, and that you wanna, like, let the dust settle before you do anything.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Just let yourself come back to normal.

• 31:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  You are on a fucking psychedelic roller coaster high right now.

• 31:41Joe Rogan?

  And I can't even chill. Like, everyone's like, fucking, they're already texting me, like, oh, you went Hollywood on us. Like, bro, what the fuck, bro? It's been like, five days, dog. He's like, oh, you switched up, man.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Well, people want you to switch up. That's a narrative that you're gonna have to deal with. The people want, oh, you fucking changed.

• 31:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  People, some people do not want you to succeed. That is a fact. Because when you succeed, especially succeed in a spectacular way, they compare themselves to you, and they fall short. And they don't like it. People do not like when people hyper succeed. That is gonna be a problem. People want you to fall. It's gonna be a problem. It's a problem with every champion, every, every celebrity, every superstar in music, and comedy, and movies, and acting, and they want you to fall. Because there's a certain type of psychology, that, there's a certain psychological mindset that some people have, where they look at people who are doing better than them, and they compare themselves, and they want that person to fail. And so they'll pretend you're something you're not, they'll create narratives that aren't real.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  You went Hollywood, bro. You fucking sold out. You fucking sold out. And you're gonna have to deal with that, too. But that's just bitches. This world's filled with bitches. And some bitches, they have loud voices.

• 32:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes, sir.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's okay.

• 32:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So that's what I'm navigating right now, is just like, trying to fucking, like, like, a part of me is like, trying to get back to everyone, but the other part of me is like, bro, like, can you just understand? Like, even like, I go from, like, doing all the interviews, I had interviews all day, and then I would go home, and like, my family wants to talk to me about what's going on, and like, fucking, I'm like, bro, like, I just wanna go walk my dog, man. And then I'm like, walk, I did the Bizbing interview, and I was like, walking my dog, and he's like, like, can you make sure you have good connection? I'm like, bro, like, I'm walking my dog, man. Y'all want the interview or not, bro?

• 33:23Speaker 00

  It's more important to walk your dog than do an interview. That's awesome.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna shout out my dog, Apollo. He's a German Shepherd, man, because like, this dude, I got, I got him when I got out of boot camp, I'm sorry, out of the Marines, and he was, he's been with me for like, the past, he's seven now, he's about to be eight, and like, this dude, like, bro, like, broke, like, so many meals with him, like, I moved out to Vegas two years ago by myself. Yeah, that's my fucking boy, man. And, uh, and like, this dude has seen it all, man. Like, I, like, that was like, I had my fucking knee surgeries, and I had to drive myself to PT fucking two days post-op. Like, nobody, nobody wanted to fucking take me to the PI and shit, bro. And I was like, trying to walk my dog and shit, and like,

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

  all that shit, that's what I was telling you earlier, man. I'm just like, bro, like, it's such a, like, I don't wanna say a fake game, but it's just, like, they only love you when you're hot. Like, when fucking Kechy got knocked out by Holloway, he wasn't fucking hot, but then fucking, he goes and wins this, he's hot. And then fucking Max Holloway gets knocked out by Ilya, fucking, Ilya's hot. Not Ilya's, Strickland, Shumaya, fucking Pereira, that's like, that's the game, it's the hurt business, you know? And then when, when they're done with you, he'll shoot you out. So, so I'm like, bro, fucking, I just upset the world, fucking changed the, the dynamic, like you said, united the MMA community, and I was like, bro, fucking, what more do I fucking want? Did it at home, fucking, walked out to Nipsey Hussle, man. That was my dream, brother. Like, fucking, that was like, everything I dreamed. Hustle and Motivate by Nipsey Hussle.

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 34:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  That was one.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Wow. Wow, man.

• 34:52Joe Rogan?

  But then the other people are like, no, he's a pussy, he's fucking, he's a lucky punch, and he wants to fucking win.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  There's no such thing as a lucky punch. Anybody says that's a moron. Or they don't know any better. Or they think, it's a thing you think you could say to diminish someone's accomplishment. That's all it is. There's no lucky punch. You're, you're fighting a world-class athlete. You stepped in, you threw a left hook, it was perfect. That's not lucky. That's exactly what you wanted to do, and you did it. If you had your eyes closed, and you're falling backwards, and you went like that, caught him on the chin, okay, maybe that's a lucky punch, but you still threw a punch.

• 35:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  You know, that's a much more fortunate punch, I would say. There's nothing lucky about the punch you threw. Nothing lucky. You wanted to hit him on the chin, you hit him on the chin.

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  Thank you for clarifying.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  Fuck those people. But that's, this, this thing about, people only love you when you're hot, that's always going to be the case. That's just how it is in the world. There's no, there's no way around that, man. That's just, people are always judging people on status. They're always judging people on their, their, their place in the hierarchy. We're chimpanzees, you know? We're like, complicated chimps. And that's how we look at it. Who's the big chimp? Who's top chimp? Oh, you're not top chimp anymore. You fucked up. You fucking loser. Fuck you. And, you know, you go on, like, someone's Instagram, like, after they had a loss, man. I've seen guys go on, you know, get knocked out, or get beat, and then you go on their Instagram, and the horrific comments from these people that have never done jack shit in their life.

• 36:15Joe Rogan?

  Before the fight, the guys were fucking brutal. Like, this guy got, lost to Tafa, this guy fucking, oh, and two, fucking like, bro, they were going in on me.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Hey, man, look at Charles Olivera. I always say, look at Charles Olivera. One of the all-time greats. And he went on a, there was a lot of times where he had this fucking reputation of being a quitter.

• 36:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I remember.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Like, people, he lost a bunch of times. Cub Swanson knocked him out, Paul Felder beat the shit out of him. All these people beat him. And then he got it together somehow, and became undeniable, and became a world champion. And this idea that, like, one loss defines you is silly. And it's only, the only people that say that are people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about. And this is part of the problem with the, the comment sphere, the world of people that could just chime in as experts when they literally have never done anything in their fucking life. That's a lot of people. Never really accomplished anything great. And they're talking about people that are trying to do one of the most difficult things in all of the world.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  Become a professional combat sports athlete at the highest level. With the whole world watching you, millions of people on Paramount Plus, 16,000 people in the fucking crypto dome, or whatever the fuck that place is called. The whole thing is nuts, man. And for you to be able to do that, I feel like you're, you're better off just not reading anything, not, not talking to anybody, just go silent for a while. Just let, let the dust settle. Let the vibrations end. It's like somebody just banged a gong, and you gotta wait for that, bong.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  You gotta wait for that to go back to zero.

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the most important part, I guess. Like, you said, you said, do it this day. I'm like, I'm here, fucking.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Well, you said it in the interview. You said, I wanna do your podcast. I said, fuck, yeah.

• 38:05Joe Rogan?

  I'm so glad I did, man.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  Few times I ever swear during an interview, too. It just came out. I said, fuck, yeah. Because it was just so crazy. It was like, how do you not have you on after that? You did something incredibly special.

• 38:17Joe Rogan?

  And I appreciate you letting me finish the prayer, because like, I could feel the crowd was like, uh, what's going on? This guy started talking Arabic.

• 38:26Speaker 00

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• 39:01Speaker 00

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• 39:46Speaker 00

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better, H E L P dot com. Well, I wanted to ask, I didn't wanna, I did wanna ask you, but I didn't wanna prolong. What was the prayer? What were you saying?

• 40:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so that's Surah Al-Fath, is basically the opening, uh, the opening prayer of the Quran, and it's basically like, you say that for the dead, uh, and you say it during, whenever you pray every day, and, that's one of the, the only, the only verses of the Quran that I've had memorized since I was a kid. Because you can see, I'm not, I'm not a very perfect Muslim, you know? I'm very tied up, like, people didn't see my gambling and all that, and all. But that's the thing, man, there's so many Muslims that, like, hide. Hide shit too, you know, and like, I just, I, I don't wanna conform to one or the other, you know, that's why I was just, I kinda put all my stuff out there, you know, and um, that was just a prayer for my dad because uh, he, he passed away when I was fifteen. And I kinda navigated this whole process without a father, you know, that's where the Marine Corps was so important to me, cause like,

• 40:47Joe Rogan?

  they taught me how to tie my tie, how to shave my face, how to press my uniform, you know, like, how to even speak and, and articulate myself, like, um, I'm so grateful for that, and uh, yeah, but a big part of, of, of me getting here was losing my father, you know, that kinda pushed me a lot.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  I saw someone online calling you an anti-American, and I was like, what? Because he has a Muslim prayer? For his father? How crazy is that? America is supposed to be a melting pot of everybody.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  All religions, all walks of life, all places in the world, all come to here and become American. The idea that you can't be an American, don't you have like stars and stripes tattooed on your arm?

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  America tattooed right?

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  Literally served. It's uh, there's no nuances anymore, like, they're like, oh, like, if you support Palestine, then you can't be fucking a Marine, and if you're a Marine, it's fucking,

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Well, that's crazy.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, bro, like.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  That's crazy. You, you, but again, there's too many voices, there's too much noise, and that's what's gonna be really important for you from now on, is like, because you've become very famous, very, very quickly, is to surround yourself with people of character, you know?

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Where, where am I gonna find him, Joe?

• 41:57Speaker 00

  It's a good question.

• 41:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause I've been, like I'm saying, I've been on this journey fucking by myself for a very long time, and uh, and like now, it's like snakes in the grass, they're all appearing, like, oh, like, let me manage, let me help you, like, uh, we, we'll sponsor you, we'll do this, we'll do that, and I'm just like.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  But listen, part, part of that is a good thing, like, these are opportunities that come out of success, right? So, it's like, you could say they're taking advantage of you, but no, it's like, there's a moment that happened, you elevated, you became something new, and now here you are in this new stratosphere of life, and you have to, you know, it's good. It's good that they wanna sponsor you now, why would they wanna sponsor you before? You gotta realize it, like, you're a hole in two in the UFC, that's how it is.

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  That's fair.

• 42:36Speaker 00

  It's also, we've talked about this a thousand times in the broadcast, the difference between the regional circuit and the UFC is gigantic, and once you get into the UFC, the reality of it all, the experience is overwhelming, and it takes a few fights for a guy to really show who he is. You see it over and over and over again, it takes a few of those experiences inside that octagon, where you just develop the ability to settle, and then show your true skills.

• 42:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  And some guys, they never get there, some guys, they're phenomenal in training camp, phenomenal in the gym, even excellent in the regional circuit, they get to the bright lights of the big show, and they just can't be themselves.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that was the thing, this is my first, that was my first arena fight, like, my, my last two were in the Apex.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 43:15Joe Rogan?

  So, it was just like, complete, like, opposite, like, from, like, it felt like a sparring match in the Apex, and going out to there, it was just like, but I feel like I performed better in, in, in, in, under pressure like that, like, like when, like, this millions of people watching, and like, the stakes are the highest, and it's like, it's like, do or die, like, fucking, I'm on two, like, you know, there's a high, high chance, fucking three losses, like, I was on the chopping block, that was, I was looking at you, there, there were times like, oh, they, they won't cut you, fucking, but, I was like, oh, fucking, I'm not gonna leave it a chance.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  If you fight hard as a heavyweight, you have a very good chance they won't cut you, because the heavyweight division is insanely shallow, it's really shallow.

• 43:55Joe Rogan?

  I really hope they don't cut Ty, I saw him.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  Ty, yeah, I know.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  He put up a fucking tough fight, man.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  Oh, he fought so well.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  So hard, man.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  He's so fun, but I hate seeing that guy keep taking all these punches, like, he's had seven losses in a row, now eight.

• 44:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  And some of them are just like, jeez.

• 44:11Joe Rogan?

  And that's the thing, like, you just wanna go out on top, everyone's just like, oh, let me just fucking win one, I just wanna win one, I just wanna, like, Tony Ferguson, like, like, everyone's just like, and that's where I'm just like, right now, I'm just like, fuck, man, like, does it really get bigger than this? You know, like, upsetting the fucking MMA world, like, sure, like, what, are they gonna give me a fucking hokit? And I fight for the title next, like, what's, like, what, uh, he got to jump all the way up.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  He jumped all the way up, and a lot of it.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  Get Volkov the disrespect, man, over Volkov, uh, fuck. But that's where, that's where we're in now, it's all about entertainment, what sells fights.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  Well, he's very marketable, you know, obviously, he uh, talks a lot of shit, and it's, look, it is a strategy on his part, I've talked to him, he's a normal dude, in real life, he's a nice guy, talked to him in real life, but, he's realized, like, there's a way to get eyes on you, and that is to be crazy.

• 45:00Joe Rogan?

  It's so fake.

• 45:01Speaker 00

  Oh, it's totally fake, I mean, he'll tell you it's fake.

• 45:03Joe Rogan?

  I did it by being real.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  You did? Yeah, it's true, I mean, look, not, you don't have to do it that way, but also, you know, he's had three fights in the UFC, and he's fighting for the title. Right? You know what I'm saying? It's crazy, but look.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Cyril better beat him, man, fuck.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Cyril's a hard dude to figure out, he's a different kinda cat, that's, that motherfucker moves different than everybody else. You know, I, we were talking about this, I think basketball might be a really good start, starting point for MMA, like, if you can get really good at basketball, the difference is you're a big person, first of all, and then, for heavyweights in particular, and you're doing constant plyometrics, like, basketball's plyometrics, right? You're moving this way, you're jumping, you're leaping forward, there's all these like changes of angle and direction.

• 45:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  That comes up very much in fighting, especially if you can change direction quickly in the middle of a combination, which Cyril can, like, you see this Cyril Tai Tu Ivasov fight.

• 46:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Incredible performance, right?

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  His footwork is unreal.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  Footwork's out of control, man, his footwork's unreal, and against Pereira, you saw how that translates against a guy as big as him. You know, that footwork is, that's a fucking real problem, man.

• 46:15Joe Rogan?

  What did you think about those back of the head shots, do you think?

• 46:18Speaker 00

  I watched it, and I know that um, Pereira is blaming Herb Dean, the problem is he's moving, and it's chaos. The really egregious foul is the Tom Aspinall fouls, that's the very egregious fouls, the eye pokes, those are egregious. Those are just fingers out in the eyeballs, those are bad. I'm of the opinion, the moment that happens, they should take a point away instantly, instantaneously, your fingers goes in a guy's eye, take a point away. You nutshot a guy, unless it's a diversion, like, sometimes, like, you'll kick, and it'll kick someone's shin, and then it'll, foot will go into the nuts.

• 46:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Accident, clearly, but if you just kick a guy in the nuts, one point. You grab a fence, one point, let's stop all this, let's stop all this, there's two ways to stop that. Another way is you gotta figure out how to cover the fingers.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  I, I think people are strategizing that now, where like, they know, like, fucking, oh, if I, if I poke him in the eye, like, fucking, the damage is gonna be done, and like, I got the advantage, like, sure, maybe, you would take a point, like, fucking, but the damage is already done, that happened to me in, in my, my pro debut, uh, the guy was like, dipping his head down and fucking coming up with the overhand, and when he popped his head, he just fucking headbutted me right in the chin, and like,

• 47:34Speaker 00

  On purpose.

• 47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cause he kept doing it, but like, the ref didn't even see it, and I like, I got a little wobbled and stuff, and um, but if I didn't finish him, like, I could've gotten screwed, you know, and like, fucking, nobody catches that stuff.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  Well, Pantoja accused Joshua Van of that in their fight, and I think he thought that Joshua Van was doing that, but I don't think that was what was going on at all. I think he was just getting frustrated that Joshua Van was, was moving ahead in the fight, was beating him.

• 48:00Joe Rogan?

  In this, in this last one?

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  I didn't even get to watch it, it was.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  It was a fucking masterclass. You know, cause Joshua Van, he won the title, but it was from an injury, you know, Pantoja threw the head kick, falls backwards, breaks his arm, that's the fight, it happened really quickly, and so it was a very, you know, it was.

• 48:18Joe Rogan?

  Maybe it was a fluke, yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Anti-climactic, it was, it, it was an injury, we don't know how the fight would have played out if they had gone, but then you see him against Tatsuro Tyra, he looked like a world champion, he beat, he defended the title, and then, against Pantoja, he just put on a masterclass, man, his fucking boxing was so sweet. Like, Joshua Van is something special, man, that, that kid gets better every single time he fights, every single, and so Pantoja was getting real.

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  He's young too, he's like twenty-five, right?

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's, he's, he's the real thing, man, he's something special, he's something real special. And I feel like next time you see him fight after you just beat Pantoja, who's one of the greatest flyweights of all time, and just beat him decisively. After he beat Pantoja, I think he's gonna be even better next time, I mean, he was talking in the press conference, he was upset about his victory. He said, man, look at my face, he goes, he goes, that dude shouldn't be touching me like this.

• 49:08Joe Rogan?

  That's what makes you a champion.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly. But, you know, his path and your path, they're very different paths, and everyone has to decide where they're at in their life, and if you're at this point where you're like, I don't know if I wanna do this anymore, I could just go out with that.

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I just wanna know why I'm doing it, that's why I need to go out and find that answer, because I'm like, if it's just the money, like, right, like, I, I did option trading when, I, I, during COVID, like, I used to be a personal trainer when I got out of the Marines, and then I started getting into option trading to learn how to make money, digitally, and like, I started making like six figures during the whole AMC and GameStop and Tesla fucking pops and all that stuff, and um, that's like one, and I want to do like private security as well, I, I did a few of that, like, I'd go work with some of the high rollers in casinos, I just do private security, and like, I, I can find ways to make money, I got GI Bill benefits that I like, I go to school and like, like, do so, for me, I'm like, if it's just the money, like, I could find a way to make money without getting fucking my head, my brain smashed, but,

• 50:08Joe Rogan?

  the title, yeah, but I mean, fuck, cool UFC title, but like, then it's like, oh, you're not a champion until you defend the title, and it's like, fucking, oh, and then, then there's this guy coming up, and this guy, and it's just like, there's never, and it's not until you're fucking. Old and beaten up and fucking they see you fucking down like that's

• 50:25Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 50:25Joe Rogan?

  That's the business man.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  That is true and if you talk to some of these guys that stayed in too long. And you know they're slurring their words and you see how broken they are they have a difficult time walking and sitting down. It's a struggle.

• 50:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:39Joe Rogan?

  My whole my whole MMA career because I got out in 2018 and I sent an email to Perillo. And Orange County Ruka and it was basically just trial by fire. I was just sparring all the pros. Luke Rockhold, Michael Bisping, fucking Sean Strickland came fucking was dropping me as an amateur like. I fucking just been sparring over and then I went out to Tiger fucking I moved out to Thailand. I was doing sparring out there and I was just been even got to extreme and fucking they I was sparring Francis Ngannou my first week, bro. My first week they threw me in there with Ngannou but it was the most terrifying shit of my fucking life, bro. I went to the apex and reassessed my life choices after that, bro. I was I was just like.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  And so when you're talking about guys that are staying too long like, bro, like I've just been sparring and that maybe that's where my lack of development is, you know? Because I I had never focused on like just the footwork and never focused on just uh that that getting better at like thinking, you know? It was always just this primal feeling of just like like I've been in street fights, you know, and like I just fucking start picking it up as I go.

• 51:38Speaker 00

  That's interesting. So do you have a main coach? Do you have a head coach that just develops you?

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  No, it's I I bounce around a lot of gyms like I started Perillo, I went with Nixick, I went to Freestyle MMA, I went to. I've bounced around like so many and like because I've I've always been looking for the the Cus and Mick, the fucking. Uh uh Cus Cus and Tyson, the Rocky and Mick and like the like Trevor and and and Gagey and like. Bro, like that doesn't come unless you're fucking Hollywood now like fucking like now, sure, maybe I'll get fucking a bunch of coaches like, yeah, let me fucking develop you. But I'm like, who who actually fucking wants to to like actually be my head coach, you know, like fucking like who who is actually like here? Because nobody was like, oh, like I see fucking potential in you and you could be a world champion someday and let me take you under my wing and and and and I'll give you privates for free.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  Like all my every single private I did, I paid for every single one, like I never got any free privates. And that was a big part of why I went into a lot of financial struggle was like no sponsors, no fucking and I'm like constantly like. I'm like, just because I want I just want my hand raised one time, just like I just want to know what it felt like to get my fucking hand raised in that octagon, man. And so that's why I fucking I did it and on on the biggest stage it gets the biggest odds and I'm just like, bro, like. Walk from the table when you're up, bro.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Well, listen, it's not the worst idea in the world, especially you were saying that there's that you did brain scans and they found something in your brain.

• 53:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there was it was just like white matter and stuff like so they did MRI and then they're like, hey, like we want you to do another uh CT scan. Like there's like it's like white specs or something, white matter or something like that. Great, man. They're like, oh, it could be caused by headaches, could be caused by this. But um, yeah, I don't know.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  Well, listen, all that's barring for sure gives you brain damage.

• 53:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm sure you had your bell rung, sure you've been dropped.

• 53:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  It is part of the sparring. Everybody look, if you spar, you're gonna get some damage.

• 53:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  There's no no if, ands, or buts about it.

• 53:32Joe Rogan?

  Cost of business.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  And um a lot of the brain damage that fighters get, it a lot of it comes from training. A lot of it doesn't even come from the actual fights itself.

• 53:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  And it counts. I mean, people don't think about that. You go, wow, you only only got knocked out one time in his whole career. Yeah, but how many sparring matches did he have, you know?

• 53:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was I was telling you earlier, like I went through fucking hell this camp like I was fucking like. Har around like like it's um Iwan Kutilaba.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  He's so explosive, so fast, he's fucking, I don't know, I'm like. We're working that oblique kick. This is something another thing I want to I want to mention that was very interesting to me. My whole camp I trained for him to crawl towards me like Jones does because he's he does the same thing. And so what I did, I got down in the same position on my knees to to like crawl towards him because that's what I've been practicing my whole camp. But then he didn't do it that this last fight. He just walked towards me. So I don't know fucking that was if I got in his head when I got down, but. I thought that was very interesting because my whole camp I was every time, every round, I was like, hey, crawl towards me like Jones does, crawl towards me like Jones does. Do the oblique kick. I fully went into this fight thinking that my knees were gonna get caved to fucking. I completely said I was like, bro, like fucking I don't care.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  What do you think about that kick? The UFC is now talking about trying to ban that kick.

• 54:52Joe Rogan?

  I think this is combat like I think it's like a part of it and um it's unfortunate because a career ender like Khalil Rowntree fucking he's.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  And also Shavkat, you know, Ian Gary got Shavkat's knee.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so it's like a part of it's like, yeah, it fucking sucks, but at the same time is like. It's it's fighting, you know, like and it's like if this was a real fight like that's that's pretty realistic.

• 55:16Speaker 00

  So is eye pokes.

• 55:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I say we get that football field you were talking about.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you know what I'm saying? So are eye pokes and we don't allow eye pokes because it creates permanent injury. I see what you're saying, but the reality is if you were in a street fight, you'd poke the fuck out of somebody's eyes and you should. You know, if you're fighting for your life, you'd fucking thumb right in the eye a hundred percent. Why why a hundred percent? Why wouldn't you? So we have to decide like.

• 55:40Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  What is good for the the safety of the athletes long term? If you're gonna have a long term career with a blown out knee, okay, a blown out knee takes you out for a year. Not only is it take you out for a year, but your knee might never be the same again. You've had ACL surgery, you know.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've had him.

• 55:59Joe Rogan?

  That's what I'm saying. That was one of my fears going into this fight. I was like, fuck, man, these motherfuckers are gonna fuck my shit up.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:04Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, fuck it, let's go.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  Like John destroyed guys' knees.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  I was there for Thiago Santos. I was there and uh that was the same night Masvidal knocked out Askren and uh.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:15Joe Rogan?

  And uh, yeah, I don't think Thiago Santos is ever the same after that fight.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  They had both his knees reconstructed after that fight.

• 56:20Joe Rogan?

  Fucking crazy.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, and Rampage Jackson too. He blew out Rampage's knee. Rampage said that my knee was never the same again after that fight. I just don't think I understand that it's combat, but also so is poking in the eyes and we don't allow poking in the eyes.

• 56:33Joe Rogan?

  So you you think we shouldn't have?

• 56:35Speaker 00

  Is an argument. There's a real conversation about whether or not it should be legal. Andy Foster, I think, is one of the best, without a doubt. Athletic Commission Directors from California, he thinks it should be banned.

• 56:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  And the UFC thinks it should be banned. It's just too many guys. Ruzaboyev, who just fought uh MVP, MVP blew out his knee. Side kicked his knee. His knee's completely reconstructed now. He went into surgery right after the fight.

• 56:59Joe Rogan?

  Now, would it be like just the oblique kick or like?

• 57:02Speaker 00

  Side kicks and oblique kicks.

• 57:03Joe Rogan?

  Just those two?

• 57:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, uh just attacking the knee with a straight kick that hyperextends it. So you'd still be able to leg kick, obviously. You'd still be able to round kick to the leg, but and the the issue is the hyperextension of the knee.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Because it just takes one and your knee is fucked forever and your career is over.

• 57:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  You know, it's just why are we doing that? You know, why don't we poke each other in the eye if we're gonna do that?

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  That's very that's very true, you know?

• 57:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 57:30Joe Rogan?

  It's a sport at the end of the day, it's not a street fight.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and people say, well, you can heel hook. You could tap on a heel hook. You cannot tap for a side kick to the knee. That that side kick comes and especially catches you. Did you see the the Ruzaboyev, the the screenshot of what it looked like? When MVP caught him, his fucking shit was totally sideways. Yeah, just everything's ripped apart inside of there. It's gone. Yeah, I mean, one shot.

• 57:56Joe Rogan?

  I'm all for it, you know, I like my knees fucking.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  I just don't, I think there's things we can't do. We can't bite, we can't eye gouge, we can't fish hook. There's a bunch of things we can't do because you want to protect the fighters and look at look at his knee.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, look how sideways that shit is. That's blown, blown out, man. I mean, that's knee probably never gonna be the same again.

• 58:19Joe Rogan?

  How did you feel about them letting him go, even though he's winning?

• 58:23Speaker 00

  I think MVP should be a welterweight, first of all. I think at welterweight, he's almost unstoppable, so fucking difficult to handle. Uh Ian Gary was the only guy that figured out how to handle him. I don't think the power translates as well at 85. Some of these 85 guys like Gregory Rodriguez and Joe Pfeifer, they're fucking huge, man. I don't know how they make 85, but these guys look like heavyweights. Um but he's one of my favorite fighters to watch because like his fight with Kevin Holland, people can talk all the shit about it was a boring fight and nothing happened. But when you got a guy as good as Kevin Holland and he's just like completely frustrated because he can't do shit. And this guy's just dancing in front of him and popping him and kicking him and punching him anytime he wants.

• 59:03Speaker 00

  It's nuts to watch, man. He's he's also 38, 39. Like, how old is MVP now? How old is Michael Venon Page?

• 59:14Speaker 00

  For me, he was like proof of concept. Cause I was always telling people, I was like, the thing that's missing in MMA, thirty nine. See, the reality is, if you're natural, if you're a natural athlete and you're thirty nine years old, it's almost over.

• 59:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Unless you're a heavyweight. Heavyweights have a little bit more life to them. Like Francis is still at the top of the heap and I think he's like forty now.

• 59:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 00

  But there's a, there's a time where you just can't move, all the injuries, all the training, you can't move as well anymore, you're a little bit slower. I was always saying though, that there's a thing that's missing in combat sports and that thing is point fighting karate. That point fighting style is so fucking hard to deal with. If you've never sparred anybody that does that shit, the moment you spar them, you're like, yo, this is crazy. Like these guys can cover distance. Ah, they just jump in and then they're out of there and they move out of the way and you get frustrated and you start chasing them and then you get countered. It's a totally different element. On its own, it's no good. Like it's no good as a standalone style because guys could take you down, you don't

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  know how to wrestle, you're fucked, you don't have to do jiu jitsu, you get strangled, you don't know leg kicks, you get your legs kicked out from under you. But what, if you know all those things and you come from that point fighting background, that ability to blitz, that ability to dive in and out and hit someone from a distance they can't hit you is crazy.

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Speaker 00

  And he to me was like proof of concept and I think there's gonna be a lot of other guys that are like elite point fighters that decide to enter into MMA. And I think they're gonna have like some pretty, pretty incredible success if they're special. Raymond Daniels did it for a little bit in, um, uh, in Bellator.

• 1:01:03Joe Rogan?

  Seven twenty.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, seven twenty punch. But he also like did it in Glory Kickboxing too. He had some great fights in Glory Kickboxing as well. But again, he's a little older, that's the problem. These guys, they have these long careers in the one discipline, they get really good and then they, by the time they start doing MMA, they're thirty four, thirty five, four or five years later, their career's over.

• 1:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  You know, so you don't have enough time to develop and really grow. And you're also gonna have a gang of injuries. I mean, look, I, I wish nothing but the best for MVP, I love that guy, I think he's awesome. He's got an awesome personality. He's had some boring fights though, unfortunately. And I think.

• 1:01:42Joe Rogan?

  It's entertainment.

• 1:01:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  People wanna see fucking knockouts.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  It's a little bit of both, you know, it's a little bit of entertainment, it's a little bit of sport. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just twenty-three dollars per session. World Mental Health Day is October tenth, but your mental health doesn't check the calendar. Stress, burnout, or just feeling off can happen anytime. That's why therapy isn't only for the big stuff. It can help with anxiety, relationship issues, work stress, or even just a bad day. You don't have to wait for things to get worse to start taking care of your mental health.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

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• 1:02:55Joe Rogan?

  How do you feel about that? You've been around for, for a long time, like when the Fertitos ran it compared to now how Paramount runs it, like, do you, do you like how it is now, like compared to where it's like, it's all about entertainment versus like who's the best at dominance?

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  Well, I'm a purist. I don't think you should ever stand a guy up. I don't think you should ever separate someone when they're on the cage. I cheer for it when it happens, just like every other moron. Yeah, stand them up. But, but I mean, if you gave me the ability to write the rules, I would never stand anybody up, ever. If you get taken down and someone's on top of you giving you noogies for five rounds, figure out how to get up. If you can't figure out how to get up, you lost. Simple. You might not lose the same way that you beat Gable. You know, that's a way more exciting way to win.

• 1:03:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  But you still won. You held him down, you gave him some of these, he couldn't get up. That's the fight. Boo, the audience boos, okay, whatever, still better than baseball, fuck off. You know what I mean? Like, I, I think it's fighting. And I think, I also think, very controversially, you shouldn't be stood up not only at the end of the round, your, I think the next fight, the next round rather, it's the same fight, you should be put back in the same position.

• 1:04:07Joe Rogan?

  It should be this Pride fifteen, fifteen minutes straight.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  You could do that. Well, Pride was ten, it was ten minute rounds and then a second five minute round. But I don't think you earn a stand-up. But you know, I'm, I, like every fight starts standing up, right? But once a guy takes you down, if he takes you down, you didn't earn getting back up. So if you didn't earn getting back up, I think you should go right back to the same position. It's one fight. It's not five fights. If you have a five minute round, you get five different chances to avoid a takedown. Why? You already been taken down, you never figured out how to get up.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  It's funny you say that, cause that was, that was what we were talking about with like my fight camp. I was all like, it's like fucking, they're gonna stand me up at the fucking, at the end of the round, you know?

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:04:49Joe Rogan?

  So, you know?

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  It's true.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Every fight starts on the feet, you know?

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  Every round starts on the feet. And if you're a wrestler or any kind of grappler, you have to take a guy down every single round. And that's, it's kinda crazy. Because in a real fight, like a fight is a fight. It's like not five, five minute. Look, the argument of like having guys fight for twenty-five minutes straight is crazy. No fight would probably last that long, everybody would gas out.

• 1:05:13Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:05:14Speaker 00

  It would be a battle of attrition. Only guys like Marab, Marab Dobbish will be the king of the world.

• 1:05:20Joe Rogan?

  Facts. I'm not going twenty-five minutes.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  It's crazy. Fucking heavyweights going twenty-five minutes is fucking mad. And when you do have heavyweights going twenty-five minutes, the damage they do to each other is horrific. It's horrific. You know, like the, the Kane Velazquez, Junior Dos Santos fights, man, I've watched those back and forth. And especially, you know, Junior knocked him out in the first fight, caught him with a punch, and then Kane destroyed him in the next two fights. And they were prolonged horrific beatings.

• 1:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's why I came up watching, look at the Kane trilogies and then.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Bro.

• 1:05:55Joe Rogan?

  The Brock Lesnar.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  Oh, Kane was something, man.

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was always my, my three, Kane Velazquez, John Jones and Mike Tyson. And I was like, if I could put those three together, that's the fighter.

• 1:06:06Speaker 00

  What about Fedor?

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  I mean, Fedor is, Fedor is, I just wasn't watching him the same, but I, I don't know if he's a goat, but fucking Blagojev beat him. Blagojev.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  In sambo, combat sambo, by points. Yeah, yeah. You're wearing a gi.

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Fact checking me.

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're wearing a gi, you're wearing shoes. There's a lot going on. Blagojev's a bad motherfucker.

• 1:06:27Joe Rogan?

  But I never really watched that, the Pride era and all that stuff. I was more just, I started watching around like Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell and like right around then.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  But Blagojev came back from getting stabbed in the heart.

• 1:06:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.

• 1:06:39Speaker 00

  That's a bad motherfucker. He was a tough dude, man, very tough dude. But it's like heavyweight, um, fighting, I think, there's never been a heavyweight division that was more stacked than Pride in the early two thousands, never. Heavyweight division in Pride, I think was the glory days of the heavyweight division. You had Mirko Krokop, you had Mark Coleman, you had Minotaro Noguera, you had Fedor, you had like one after the other, killer, killer, killer, killer. It was just like this insane shark tank of elite fighters. And then they were all fighting juice to the tits. They were over in Japan, you know? It was a different world.

• 1:07:21Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's where we're.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  Don Fry.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  I was asking, um, Birmingham, how you pronounce his name, from, over at Ways to Well?

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  Brigham.

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Brigham, Brigham. I was asking him about the, the peptides and stuff, cause I heard there's talks about maybe like getting some of the recovery peptides approved now in the UFC and stuff, so I don't know if that's where it's gonna be headed, but.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  It would certainly help. I do not know where they're going with that, whether or not it would be possible and whether or not eventually it gets through, but there's certain things that are just not performance enhancing, all they do is help soft tissue injuries. BPC one five seven, I think would be an easy one to approve. That's the best one, I think, for soft tissue injuries.

• 1:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Have you used them?

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, fuck yeah, I use the shit out of that stuff.

• 1:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Cause I've never used it, but everyone always tells me Wolverine Stack.

• 1:08:04Speaker 00

  Oh, it's great.

• 1:08:05Joe Rogan?

  But now there's like so many, everyone and their mom sells peptides now, like you don't even know like the.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  True.

• 1:08:10Joe Rogan?

  The, the good.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  That's why a company like Ways to Well is so important, because it's a compounding pharmacy. You know, they, they have, they own a compounding pharmacy, so you know that you're getting an actual pure version of BPC one five seven. Whereas if you order it online, who knows where it's coming from? You're getting it online, it's getting delivered to you, it might be coming from China, maybe coming from Vietnam, like who knows? Who knows? It might be real, it might be great. It might be total bullshit. Like the, people have run tests on different peptides they found online and a lot of them are just total bullshit.

• 1:08:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  Like twenty percent of what they say is in there. Yeah, it's like you're just guessing because it's not regulated. So it should be legal and it should be regulated, you know? And then. You know, if that's the case, I think then there should be an argument for certain peptides that help people recover from injuries because this is a sport where you're practicing injuring each other all day long.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's fucking injured.

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  If you want fighters to compete at a high level, once they get into the octagon, you're gonna have to help them recover along the way. And it's not just cold plunges and saunas and massage. BBC 157 will help them recover. And it's not gonna make them a super athlete. It's not gonna make them faster or stronger. It's just gonna help heal injuries.

• 1:09:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:09:23Speaker 00

  I mean, that's my position. But I think it's weird that you can use like some things that work great, like creatine.

• 1:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  Creatine's phenomenal. And that's legal?

• 1:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, I didn't know this, but the P I was educating us how the creatine helps your brain now too. So I'm like, fucking, dude, this gonna make me smarter or fucking?

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  Creatine 100% increases mental performance. If I have a day where I haven't gotten much sleep and I don't take creatine versus a day where I haven't got much sleep and I do take creatine, there's a giant difference. And they've done studies on this. They show when sleep deprived people, creatine basically mitigates all the negative effects of sleep deprivation. So you can perform like mentally at the same level.

• 1:10:04Joe Rogan?

  Do you take the powder form?

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

  Powder form, yeah.

• 1:10:07Joe Rogan?

  You know, just dry scoop it?

• 1:10:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a company called Create. They make creatine gummies. They make a bunch of different, but they also have powder. Each one of them's five milligrams. So I just take these, or five grams? Five grams.

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Usually it's five grams, yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  It's grams, yeah, it's not milligrams. So I take two five gram packets in the morning, two in the night.

• 1:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  That's how I do it.

• 1:10:30Joe Rogan?

  The P I gives us the thorn supplements they give us.

• 1:10:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's great stuff. Thorns awesome stuff. Yeah. Yeah, just, I dry scoop it, just throw it in my mouth, drink water. It just doesn't taste good. It's just, it's performance.

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  But creatine is one of the few absolutely legitimate supplements that I think most people, especially most athletes should be taking.

• 1:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  And it's good for your brain just overall. It's great for it.

• 1:10:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think I need to go to, I haven't taken any fucking, because that was the other thing too. They were telling me like, once you get closer to the fight, like you don't need to be taking as much creatine because it's like, I don't know if it like harder dehydrates you or fucking?

• 1:11:08Speaker 00

  First of all, you're not cutting any weight. So the difference between you and a lighter weight guy, I could see the argument for a lighter weight guy because with lighter weight guys, if you're trying to cut some weight, what's going on is creatine, one of the benefits of it, it lets you hold more water. You know, so you have more water in your muscles, your muscles are stronger, your brain works better, there's more water in your system.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:30Speaker 00

  I think that's how it works. There's a bunch of reasons why it works, but I do know that it makes people, makes people hold more water. So if you're a fighter that's cutting weight, like some of these guys, which, some of these guys cut insane amounts of weight. Did you see that Ryan Garcia Connor Ben fight where they said he weighed 30 pounds more the day of the fight?

• 1:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  I'm like, what?

• 1:11:54Joe Rogan?

  It didn't help him. It was fucking crazy.

• 1:11:56Speaker 00

  No. I didn't think it was gonna help.

• 1:11:57Joe Rogan?

  I didn't think Ryan was gonna win that.

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  You didn't?

• 1:12:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, I like Ryan, but like, I heard he was like fucking partying fucking a little while before.

• 1:12:06Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Because he had like his birthday like two months before and like.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  Just two months? That's it?

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 00

  That's okay. Yeah, two months is all right for a guy that good, that young. Yeah, I thought Ryan was on a totally different level. My, my position was, is no disrespect to Connor Ben, but like I watched Ryan compete against guys like Gervonta, like, you know, guys like at a very high level, Rolie, like he's, he's been in there with some of the absolute best guys in the division.

• 1:12:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Speaker 00

  And I just think he's just a different level. That's what my position was. And also his speed is fucking crazy. His speed is nuts, man.

• 1:12:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Speaker 00

  He's, his left hook is just fucking preposterous. Did it say 178? Yeah, less than 12 hours from weigh-ins, Connor Ben is rehydrated from 146 to 178.4.

• 1:12:57Speaker 00

  That's not good. Like, that's like very unhealthy for your body to go to that state where you're almost dead. Like, what do you walk around at?

• 1:13:08Joe Rogan?

  Usually I was, I was a little heavier. I was at 255, but for this camp I went down. I was about 240, 245.

• 1:13:14Speaker 00

  Does anybody try to talk you into going to 205?

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  I did my pro debut at 205. So, yeah, yeah. So I know I could, I could do it. Perla was the one that told me, he's like, I think I like you better at heavyweight. This was like when I was an amateur. He's like, because of the speed. And I feel like it's a different fight. Like when I'm telling you, when I was sparring, like Ewan and Strickland's not a 205, but that motherfucker gets heavy sometimes. But yeah, I feel like it's like a lot, a lot more thinking than heavyweight. You know, like it's more like.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  Speed and movement. Yeah.

• 1:13:47Joe Rogan?

  I feel like they're a little smarter than me, but.

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  So you're really considering like wrapping it up?

• 1:13:55Joe Rogan?

  I'm taking it as I go right now, you know, but I just really don't know, you know, because it's like, brother, I'm, I'm legit filing bankruptcy this year. Like, that's fucking like, I really ran myself all the way into debt, like fucking chasing this fucking shit, you know? Like, don't get me wrong, like, I got a T R X fucking, I can't afford, I paid for my tattoos, like 30 grand on that shit. I did P R K, put that on the card, like, I took my mom to.

• 1:14:17Speaker 00

  What's P R K?

• 1:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Uh, instead of LASIK, so they don't, you don't have the flap. And, and I took my mom to Mecca. And it was just like, bro, like I just been fucking, I burnt my boats. And I was just like, you know, fucking.

• 1:14:29Speaker 00

  Back against the wall.

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  That's it, brother. Fucking, we gotta win.

• 1:14:33Speaker 00

  Well, now that you're in debt, you probably should have a couple of fights to get out of debt.

• 1:14:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the thing too, is like, bro.

• 1:14:38Speaker 00

  Especially capitalize.

• 1:14:39Joe Rogan?

  My, my life is so fucking crazy. Like, I need like a lawyer, a financial advisor right now. I need some fucking, like some guidance, you know? And that's, that's the thing where I'm just like, I'm like, I got what I wanted and now I'm just like, okay, what the fuck is next? You know? And that's the thing, like, people fucking like, like, oh, how, how is it just with this one win? You know, but I'm, I'm legit telling you, like, all I wanted was to fucking have my hand raised in the octagon. Like, I just wanted to know what that fucking felt like. And that was fucking, that was a fucking, the best possible ever, you know?

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  Best possible result, yeah.

• 1:15:13Joe Rogan?

  And, and the fact like, like I genuinely was like praying this, this, this time. Like, that was the first time like I was like legit like, and it wasn't even just like my, just me, like I had my, my Muslim friends, my, my Christian friends, like it was fucking, like there was just so many people like, I'm a spiritual guy. Like, that's the thing when people are like, oh, he's so contradicting sometimes. And I'm just like, I've always been like, like, very like more spiritual than, than following just the books. And yeah, I just, I felt like there was something with me that fight. I felt like it wasn't just me in there. And like, the fact that like, I felt dirt biking like three weeks ago with, with Strickland and I fucking busted my fucking shoulder.

• 1:15:52Speaker 00

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• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  And you saw he just crashed too?

• 1:17:53Speaker 00

  He's crazy.

• 1:17:54Joe Rogan?

  You literally have to sign a waiver where you fucking hang out with Strickland fucking from now on. Like, bro, like, like.

• 1:18:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, he just crashed hard. His buddy got really fucked up.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  That's the guy from Embedded, Chris. Yeah, he, he's fucking.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, don't do that. Don't do what he does. And I think he wasn't wearing a helmet, right?

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think they were. Thank God I wore one because they, Strickland, ironically, he's the one that told me not to ride the dirt bike. He did tell me. He's like.

• 1:18:19Speaker 00

  Do as I say, not as I do.

• 1:18:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's like, he's like, you got a fight coming. You probably shouldn't do that. Fuck you. You can't tell me to do that.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  Sean's crazy.

• 1:18:26Joe Rogan?

  He's like, but put a helmet on. I'm like, all right, I'll put the helmet on. Thank God I did, yeah.

• 1:18:30Speaker 00

  Sean is legitimately fucking crazy. So what was this? Is this a car that flipped over?

• 1:18:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it had.

• 1:18:37Speaker 00

  Were they in a side by side?

• 1:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. They're in, they're in like a buggy.

• 1:18:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, don't, don't do.

• 1:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Strickland is the fucking man, cause like, as much of, I used to fucking hate this dude. When he used to come to the gym at Ruka, I used to hate him. That was right, right after the Usman fight and he crashed his motorcycle. And um, this guy, he would, he would come in and his leg was all fucking busted up like, and like, he, he refused to take fucking pain meds. He was just always talking shit and he would fuck me up, that's why, I know he was always pissed, he was always fucking me up. And um, and, and, and, and going through that, I was just like, man, like, this dude's, at least he's fucking real, you know, like, like.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  Oh, he's very real.

• 1:19:19Joe Rogan?

  He like, he, he, like, he calls out everybody, you know, like. Cause he used to talk shit about all the fucking Palestinian shit and then he started talking about the Israeli shit and then he's fucking, he was pro-Trump and then he was like, anti-Trump and he was like, um, he, he speaks his mind, but another part, I think he does this rage bait just a little bit, like.

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  He knows how to push people's buttons, you know, he knows how to get the clicks, he's a smart motherfucker, like, he makes his investments, like.

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:41Joe Rogan?

  Like, this dude fucking just has guns, cars, motorcycles and fucking.

• 1:19:45Speaker 00

  He's very smart with his investment, he's set, like, he, he, we, told me about it, I asked him about it, it's like, he put away his money, he's invested, mutual funds, the whole deal.

• 1:19:54Joe Rogan?

  He called me after the fight, yeah.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  Did he?

• 1:19:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, he's like, I knew you were gonna be on some dumb shit, he's like, don't you fucking walk, he's like, this is, this is when you get the fucking money, this is when you get to fuck the bitches, this is when you get to fucking, he's like, this is when all the opportunity comes, and I was like, yeah, but, does he, is it, I don't know, you know?

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  Well, it's your decision, it's really, you can't let anybody decide for you, because if you, you do something for someone else, especially something like fighting, and you wound up getting knocked out in your next fight and you were half into it and half out of it.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Speaker 00

  You know, my advice for anyone who's always got one foot in and one foot out is get out, always. Every time I know a guy that's like, I think one more fight and then I'm done, like, stop now.

• 1:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  Stop now, like, most, most, most of the time, that's the best advice, because if you're not fully, completely, one hundred percent, committed to being the best fighter possible and like, on that path, you're gonna run into someone who is.

• 1:20:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:20:53Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:20:54Joe Rogan?

  Now, now, you can, you can Brendan Schaub me here, like, when you look at me, like, do you really think I could be a world champion?

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  Listen, if you can do what you just did against Gable, and then do that again against someone else similar, like, what if you did that to Ty Tuivasa, or what if you did that to, you know, fill in the blank, whoever the fighter is?

• 1:21:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:13Speaker 00

  Pavlov, there's a lot of different guys who are really good, and if you can keep improving and keep beating these guys in that direction, and then get a legitimate coach, like, maybe even Trevor, get Trevor Whitman, or get Farah Sahabi, who I think is one of the great masterminds of the sport, get someone who's gonna like, work with you on technique and really try to develop you as a fighter, as opposed to just you sparring all the time, and you training all the time, and you do, you can learn a lot sparring all the time, but you don't learn the same amount that you would if you're coached, if you're coached correctly, like, on a day in, day out, daily basis, like, have you seen the, uh, the Art of Violence videos that Justin puts out with Trevor?

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  Trevor and, and Justin are right next to each other all the time. Trevor, who's a genius, is like, giving him instruction, yes, that's it, we wanna dip to the left, there it is, there it is, okay, let's do that again. Do that again, set it up, they're setting it up, they're, they're technical, they're going over all the aspects, they're rolling with punches, and they have counters set up, they're doing the collar tie and the uppercut, there are all these things that they're preparing for, for these moments, and they're going over it over and over again, until it's cemented into his central nervous system. That's what you need, if you wanna really excel, and you wanna really be like a world-class, world championship, potential caliber fighter, you have to have that, you have to have that.

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  I agree, and that was my, that was always my issue, was like, I was really trying to find that, but.

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  Well, Eric Nixick was in your corner.

• 1:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I, I, I don't even get to talk about that, fucking, Nixick popped in my corner because Sergey was supposed to have his, his, his baby and he left. I woke up fight day, the day of the fight, oh, he's like, hey, it was like, two in the morning, he's like, hey, I had to go back to Vegas, my wife, my wife might be going into labor. And I was like, alright, fucking, uh, this is like, definitely worst-case scenario, and that's when I, I knew, I knew Nixick was there, and uh, Nixick's a fucking amazing guy, like, he fucking, he, he worked with me when I was in, in Extreme, when I first came out, he walked with me for my first fight. And uh, I just get it, he's like, super busy, you know, like, he's got so many fighters, you know, and especially, I was just, I just showed up at the gym, that's my thing, is like, I've always just showed up at the gym and I'm like, alright, fucking,

• 1:23:27Joe Rogan?

  let's fucking spar, you know, and then like, people are like, who's this guy, you know, and maybe you get like, a little attention, but then they like, knows it to sit and develop with you, um, the way you're talking about with like, Trevor and stuff.

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  Well, Eric can certainly do that, you know, and you're training in Vegas all the time, and now you guys have like, uh, an understanding, like, he, he came and showed up and he shocked the world.

• 1:23:46Joe Rogan?

  He fucking came through, cause I, I literally just texted him, he was like, got you, homie.

• 1:23:50Speaker 00

  He's a great human being.

• 1:23:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I really like, we were in the back, he, the way he, he communicated and like, was like, like, he was breaking shit down, like, he was like, very analytical with it.

• 1:24:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:24:01Joe Rogan?

  That, that was very good for me, and like, and then people are like, oh, he, well, he, he didn't fight, and I'm like, well, fucking, like, why does that matter if he's, he's, he's a good coach and he's fucking effectively communicating all these things, you know?

• 1:24:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, this idea that you have to be a fighter to be a great coach, I, I understand why people say that. Cause I think there are some elements of competition that you really won't understand unless you've been hit, unless you've hit someone, unless you've been in there, unless you've done, but I also think you can't, you can't dismiss special people. And there are special people that analyze things and have an understanding of things, like, here's a perfect example, John Donahue. Widely considered, widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu coach ever.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:45Speaker 00

  Didn't, didn't compete, doesn't matter, like, he understands jujitsu at the most comprehensive and most analytical way humanly possible. He literally trains and teaches, or at least, doesn't train anymore, so, he's got so many injuries, like, two hip replacements, knee replacements, he's all fucked up.

• 1:25:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:03Speaker 00

  But, which is why it kept him from competing, but his dedication to coaching is unparalleled. He's in there seven days a week, he's like, constantly training these guys, and look what he's achieved. Guys like Gordon Ryan, Gary Tonan, Craig Jones, all these guys who came out of there, Nicky Rod, they all will tell you.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Craig Jones was going crazy for my fight, he, he followed me, he was just, he was just making all these posts and he's like, oh, he had turf toe or something like that.

• 1:25:27Speaker 00

  Craig's hilarious, he's the funniest guy in jujitsu by far, he's so funny.

• 1:25:32Joe Rogan?

  He invited me, he was telling me, like, hey, we could do some, something like, I think he says, plan on going over to, to Israel, Palestine, and like, doing some kind of B-team thing over there, so, I've never met him, but he fucking extended that.

• 1:25:47Speaker 00

  So, what would you do over there?

• 1:25:49Joe Rogan?

  No, I think he, maybe he was doing like, a seminar or something like that.

• 1:25:52Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Are we allowed, I, I don't wanna, are we allowed to talk about?

• 1:25:56Speaker 00

  You can talk about anything you want, yeah.

• 1:25:58Joe Rogan?

  How do you feel about the genocide there, that's going on with all the, like?

• 1:26:01Speaker 00

  Well, I've been very open about it, I think it's horrific, I think it's, it's terrifying that people will dismiss it, and they, here's the thing that they do, they use different terms, right, they say, it doesn't technically qualify as a genocide because it's not a specific targeting of one race or one type of people, like, okay. Let's stop with that word, let's say a horrific injustice against humanity, let's, let's, let's talk about the, the, how many thousands and tens of thousands of women and children have been destroyed by missiles from the sky, how many buildings are gone? I think like, ninety percent of Gaza is gone, like, there's no way you can look at that and not say, it's a, a horrific incident.

• 1:26:43Speaker 00

  Like, whatever it is, call, whatever name it is, it's a horror, it's a, it's, it's one of the most, it's, you look at the video footage of Gaza, it's fucking terrifying, there's humans that are just under that rubble that they're never gonna find.

• 1:26:57Joe Rogan?

  No, and, and all the amputations are happening without anesthesia, are you seeing the, the kids, like, like, that's my biggest thing, is like, in, in Iraq and Afghanistan, there's rules of engagement. Like, you have to look a motherfucker in the eyes before you kill them, like, you have to go into a bo, a booby-trapped building, knowing that the enemy was in there with a fucking suicide bomber vest or a grenade and fucking go in there regardless, and it's like, these guys just got a little drone and boop.

• 1:27:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Just took a hundred people.

• 1:27:23Speaker 00

  Missiles and, and, and it's, and it's all funded by the United States, and it was funded, you know, it was, so much as people hate this Iran war, and I hate it, the Biden administration funded that when it was going on with Israel.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  How do we make changes, Joe? Because like, you see so many people try to stand up like Macklemore and like, fucking getting canceled, and like, you're seeing like, so many people trying to like, call out like, with the Epstein files and fucking like, bro, like, it's fucking like, it's, it's clear as day, you know, like, that, that there's all these people complicit, but like, nobody's being prosecuted, nobody's being like.

• 1:27:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Charged.

• 1:27:58Speaker 00

  The, the Macklemore thing is really crazy, because if you ever, let's play his actual speech, find his actual speech. Because people were saying that it's anti-Semitic, it, there's nothing about what he's saying that's anti-Semitic. If you listen to the entirety of the speech, he is, I, I'll, I'll play it before we comment on it, because I think there's a real problem now with clips and narratives, where people hear a piece of something, and then they make it, they, they have the, you know, a, like, oh, you can't say that, or, or this, he's doing this, or, oh, he's doing that, like, everyone's losing nuance.

• 1:28:36Speaker 00

  What he's doing is talking about what, to most people, seems like a crime against humanity, that's what most people look at it, and that's how they see it. And what he's saying is in no way, and I don't like, I don't like that term Semitic either, because, like, the Palestinians, a lot of those Palestinians are Semites.

• 1:28:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:56Speaker 00

  And a lot of those Palestinians are literally descendants of people that probably were Jewish at one point in time and converted to Islam. This is not an anti-Semitic thing, because a lot of the people that live in Israel are Jews from, um, Eastern Europe. Like, they're not even from that place.

• 1:29:15Joe Rogan?

  And there's a lot of Jews that are like, against the genocide as well, you know?

• 1:29:19Speaker 00

  But let's hear what he's saying, let's hear what he's saying, so we can.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  Say this all day, one of the reasons why I wanted to come on this tour was because I wanted to stand up here on stages and stadiums across America and say two words that are very near and dear to my heart, free Palestine.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  I said, "Free Palestine."

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  I want those words to be loud and clear. So the people from Gaza, all the way to the occupied West Bank, know that we have not forgotten them. And this next song was inspired by the bravery of Columbia University students, who led an encampment movement that mobilized the entire world, opened up hearts, myself included. So, thank you to those students that risked their diplomas, that risked their tuition, that risked their scholarships, that stood up and said, "No." CUAD students, Students for Justice in Palestine, and Jewish Voices for Peace. Thank you, guys.

• 1:30:37Speaker 03

  To all of my Jewish brothers and sisters. Criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide, in no way is a criticism of you.

• 1:30:54Speaker 03

  My message is for peace, love, for all human beings to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality. So I say, "Free Palestine." I say, "Free Lebanon." I say, "Free Cuba." I say, "Free Congo." "Free Sudan." "Free all people in America, living in fear over this terrorist organization, ICE."

• 1:31:22Speaker 03

  "None of us will be free until we are all free." This song is called "Hens Hall."

• 1:31:28Speaker 00

  Okay, so, when you hear what he said about Jewish people, my Jewish brothers and sisters, like, this is clear, this is not an anti-Jewish message. He's talking about the war. He's talking about what happened to Gaza.

• 1:31:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just those, the "Free Palestine." You can't say that.

• 1:31:45Speaker 00

  That's crazy. That was like during Black Lives Matter. You used to not be able to say, "All Lives Matter."

• 1:31:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:51Speaker 00

  Like, guys got fired because they said, "All Lives Matter." Yeah, it's, um, it's a very, we're in a very strange time in our society where people are resistant to this idea that something wrong is going on there. And I think history will show that when, when people look back on it, they'll be horrified.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what's scary right now. It's like, everyone knows, like, we're all kind of bought, like, everyone's kind of corrupt at this point. Like, everyone knows, like, the, the media, the government, like, the whole COVID thing with, like, Fauci pleading the Fifth and taking a pardon, like, it's like, we've been lied to, like, over and over. And, like, the American people are pissed, like, because I made a video, a few videos that were going viral even before this fight, that I was just talking about the, how they were integrating the military with, with a foreign nation. And, and how, like, like, people are scared to even say, "America first." Like, you see those videos where they go up to these politicians, like, "Hey, uh, America first?" And, like, or, "Israel first." And, like, fuck, uh, uh, like, fuck.

• 1:32:51Speaker 00

  Well, Israel has done an amazing job of embedding themselves with all these politicians. Did you see when they were, when Mamdani was running for mayor? And I think this is one of the reasons, one of the main reasons why he won in New York City. He was the only guy that said he wasn't gonna go visit Israel. They were all like, "I'm gonna be the ma-" "What do you, what's the first thing you're gonna do? I'm going to Disneyland." No, they were all like, "I'm gonna go to Israel."

• 1:33:11Joe Rogan?

  How does, like, all of Congress have dual citizenship?

• 1:33:14Speaker 00

  Well, it's not all of Congress. That's not true. That's like some TikTok facts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's not.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  The whole AIPAC.

• 1:33:21Speaker 00

  Well, it's, there's, there's some members of Congress have dual citizenship. I don't know how many. We could find out now. Uh, but the thing is about how many of them have been funded. That's where it gets weird.

• 1:33:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  You know, and how much, uh, how much funding is going on with these politicians? That's where things get weird. Like, Kurt Metzger.

• 1:33:41Joe Rogan?

  What about that congressman that's like, like, a basic vegetable? That they're like wheeling around?

• 1:33:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. McConnell?

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck is going on, man?

• 1:33:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. I'm gonna find this, this, there's this one thing that, uh, Metzger sent me, that he was like, "I thought this was fake, and it's not, and it seems fake." It's one of those ones where you see it, and you're like, "Wait, what is this?" This is, uh, uh, James Lee had it on his, uh, Instagram page, Jamie, if you could find it before me. Jamie's always so good at finding shit before I could even pull it up. But here, I'll send it to you.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, been watching it happen for years, and now.

• 1:34:19Speaker 00

  This is, uh, "Band Documentary Reveals Pro-Israel Curriculum Taught In American Schools." So this is, uh, this is weird. This is not just pro-Israel. This, this is weird. Like, this guy's talking, and you're like, "This is in America, someone saying this, for real?"

• 1:34:39Speaker 04

  Something just got passed in Texas like this, too.

• 1:34:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. There's a lot of dirty people out there. A lot of people taking that money. Watch this.

• 1:34:52Speaker 05

  "...a new curriculum requiring public school students to study Israel's history. And here's a little preview of what they're about to teach. Take a listen."

• 1:35:00Speaker 06

  Israel, their people, the Jews, are better than all of us. They're better than all of us. And you need to accept that. This is where, with the kids, where we start our indoctrination.

• 1:35:16Speaker 00

  This is real.

• 1:35:16Speaker 06

  I know that's a strong word to use, indoctrination, that it, uh, you know, it gets such a bad reputation. But that's where it starts. Um, that's where it started with me, when I was a child, that I was taught about, uh, the support that the church owes to Israel.

• 1:35:40Speaker 07

  So, all your loose change that you have from home, you bring that change to school. Everything that we get, we will actually pass it in and make a check out to the Fellowship for Christians and Jews.

• 1:35:55Speaker 06

  And anybody that's ever been to our church would know, there's a spiritual obligation of a Christian to Israel.

• 1:36:01Speaker 08

  God gave a promise in Genesis, Chapter 12, "And I'm gonna bless all of those that bless you, and I'm gonna curse all of them that curse you. Every nation that has blessed Israel, God has blessed them. And every nation that has opposed Israel, God has been in opposition to them."

• 1:36:19Speaker 05

  Says, if you read the actual text.

• 1:36:21Speaker 00

  So, we get it.

• 1:36:23Speaker 00

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• 1:37:08Speaker 00

  Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime Card, provided by Chime's Bank Partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer, on average, than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild? And also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs.

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• 1:38:35Speaker 00

  Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. No one's better than you. That's crazy. Is "they are better than you" is crazy. Now, obviously, this is this one guy's position in that preacher preaching. The Bible is very much open to interpretation by a lot of people. There's a lot of different versions of what it's actually saying that people will preach on stage. And that guy is just, he's not indicative of all Christians. And this is not indicative of all people that, you know, that, that, that think we should support Israel either. But this idea that "they are better than you," that anybody's teaching that any human being is better than other human beings, is crazy.

• 1:39:18Joe Rogan?

  But it's in the, it's in the Talmud, right? They talk about, "We're all goyim," cattle, and like, goys.

• 1:39:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did, I've never read the Talmud, but I have, I have heard that before. Not, not just that, but like, isn't there one that, like, Jesus is like boiling in excrement or something?

• 1:39:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, they're very, it's very anti-Christian, you know? Look, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm the expert. My, my main thing is just like, at least stop killing the women and children. Can we just start, start there, you know? Like, like, that's, that's, that's, that's what's crazy to me, is like.

• 1:39:46Speaker 00

  Well, this mindset is insane. This, this mindset that "they're better than us," that "they're better than you," is insane. That's insane. The, the teaching that to a child is insane. No one's better than anybody. The, the mindset should be, "We are all God's children. We're all human beings, and we should treat each other all with dignity and respect and love." Period, all of us. And the idea that you, you could tell people, like, young kids, no matter what, like, someone's better than you. They're better than you. They're better than us. Because of what? Because of a book? Like, what are you saying?

• 1:40:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:18Speaker 00

  Like, what the fuck are you saying? Why, and why are you saying it? You know?

• 1:40:22Joe Rogan?

  Crazy times.

• 1:40:23Speaker 00

  I don't know how this all gets sorted out, man. And I don't know, you know, like, that Macklemore thing, like, what he said was... Pretty fucking reasonable, you know?

• 1:40:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:36Speaker 00

  I mean, the terrorist organization ICE, I don't think ICE is a terrorist organization. I think they have a terrible job. And I think they're also like, very poorly funded and not only, not not funded, rather, trained, very poorly trained, very quickly trained. Not only that, there, there's a bunch of them that they hired that they had to do background checks on, and then once they did the background checks, now they're trying to kick them out of ICE and they want their money back. So you get like a big signing bonus. So when you sign up for ICE, you get like fifty thousand dollars, which is why a lot of people are signing up. You know, your guy's in debt. If you're in debt and all of a sudden come, someone comes along and says, I'm gonna give you fifty thousand dollars as a signing bonus, like, holy shit, there's not a thing in life that you can imagine that'll give you fifty thousand dollars. So now you start working for ICE.

• 1:41:20Speaker 00

  Then they do a background check on them and find like, oh, you're not qualified to be here at all. In fact, we gotta take the money back. So now you owe them the money. So now they're gonna dock your pay from future jobs, wherever you're working, because ICE gave you a check for fifty thousand dollars. The real problem is that they have to do it in the first place, because the Democrats let the fucking border be wide open for four years so they could bring in at least, who knows the number, but it's at least ten million people undocumented from all over the world. And they invited them in, you know? And why are they doing that? Well, I don't know, but a lot of people believe it was because they can move them to places and rig the census. So, the way the census works, they're not counting, um, citizens.

• 1:42:04Speaker 00

  They're counting bodies. They're counting human beings. So, if you have more human beings that live in your town, and some of them are illegal aliens, you get more congressional seats. And that's, that's what they're doing. Like, that was the idea behind it, according to Elon, according to a lot of people that make a lot of sense. There's some reason why they had the border wide open. Some people think it's for cheap labor. Some people think it's construction companies and meatpacking companies, all these different companies wanted undocumented people because they could pay them less. There's an argument for that, too, but the bottom line is, that shouldn't be the case. Like, people should be able to immigrate to America, but not if they're fucking terrorists, not if they're criminals, not if they're cartel members.

• 1:42:46Speaker 00

  We should know who's coming in, because we don't want this place to be less safe.

• 1:42:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:52Speaker 00

  You know, so then, how do you do, how do you deal with all the people that got in that are illegal? Well, that's when it gets very fucking complicated, because you only have four years to do it. And if the Democrats win in twenty twenty-eight, then guess what? All this stuff goes away. And maybe they open up the borders again. I mean, I don't know.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, I, I was gonna ask how you feel about the flock cameras, because I feel like that goes hand in hand with all the surveillance and stuff.

• 1:43:14Speaker 00

  Well, you know what, man? The flock cameras, first of all, there have been a lot of people that had access to the flock cameras that are not supposed to have access to the flock cameras. Cops have used them to stalk people and track their exes. There's been a, a ton of lawsuits. People have taken down flock cameras. I, I'm not educated enough on it, informed enough on it, to make a, a, an absolute decision, but I don't like the idea of fucking cameras everywhere, watching everything you do constantly. And if that's our only solution to crime, is that really our only solution to crime?

• 1:43:54Speaker 00

  It's not better trained, better paid, more ethical police officers, better education, uh, better access to healthcare and education in poor neighborhoods that creates less crime? Like, there's other ways of dealing with this, instead of a fucking eye in the sky that watches everything you do all day long, that has been shown, at least in certain circumstances, to be abused by people.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  That, it's been shown to be abused by people. Like, how many different instances have there been with police officers and different people who had access to these cameras that weren't supposed to, that have used them? There's a, there's a, a bunch of different cases.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's scary, because, like, I, I remember I used to see, like, what's going, what was happening in China, and like, I was like, I was like, oh, the fucking, they got a surveillance state over there, and then I'm like, looking around here, and I'm like, wait a minute, like, Palantir, fucking flock cameras, fucking like, it's kinda scary.

• 1:44:49Speaker 00

  Theo Von brought that up to me on the podcast. I didn't even know they were doing it. Like, in Gaza, they're using face recognition from Palantir. So, I, what, how do they do that? Is that with satellites? Is that with drones? Like, what are they, how are they doing that?

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  I, I, I don't have the specifics, I don't wanna misspeak, but I, I think it's, it's all of it. I think they could see an ant from a satellite. Fucking like, the technology is, is, is crazy.

• 1:45:14Speaker 00

  The real problem is, like, the Benjamin Franklin quote, "For people that are willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither."

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:45:23Speaker 00

  You know, and it's like, when you give enormous corporations the power to, to monitor everywhere you go, everything you do, you're gonna self-censor, you're going to, you're gonna wa-watch yourself, you're gonna feel like the eye in the sky, the fucking, the great eye of Sauron, is looking at you everywhere you go. That's not what we want. We don't, is that the only solution to lessen crime? That seems crazy. It seems crazy. So, Marc Andreessen, who I think he has some investment in, um, in, um, the flock cameras, when he was on the podcast last, he was making an argument for it, based on, there were some shootings that happened in Austin.

• 1:46:08Speaker 00

  So, some young guys, uh, just were psychos, just randomly shot people and, and were driving around.

• 1:46:15Joe Rogan?

  Here in Austin?

• 1:46:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, in Austin. And they couldn't find them, because Austin doesn't allow flock cameras. So the moment these guys left Austin limits, the flock cameras picked them up and they arrested them.

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  Fucking like Austin more, just by hearing that. They don't allow flock cameras.

• 1:46:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. But, you know, he would say, hey, look, this is the way we catch psychos. And that's true, too. But at what cost? Is it the only way that we can, the only way that we can catch psychos is by having an eye in the sky that watches everything you do? And are you willing to give that up in order to stop the random psychos?

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  I think, I think it starts with, actually, like, serious punishment, like, they need to bring back fucking the firing squad and fucking public hangings.

• 1:46:58Joe Rogan?

  Motherfuckers are probably stopped doing it if they see, you know?

• 1:47:02Speaker 00

  Okay, what is this? Palantir released new surveillance system that fuses satellites, radars, and every camera into one real-time tracker of people and movement. What?

• 1:47:11Speaker 04

  It's a demo they're giving, like, at a...

• 1:47:14Speaker 00

  Says, "We have to consider the possibility, probability, question mark, uh, that with flock as the eyes, a system like this could be overlaid onto the US, and we could be targets. Another reason why we cannot allow flock to exist."

• 1:47:31Speaker 04

  It's showing up, for people who are listening, it's showing a real-time satellite system that I've, even on their website, they got this thing called, uh, meta-surveillance or something.

• 1:47:43Speaker 00

  I like the, the Twitter account Orwell Day with a big eyeball.

• 1:47:48Speaker 00

  It's fucking, and here's the question, who has access to this? Like, we've seen with the flock cameras, like, see if you can find some stories. I know there's been a bunch of stories.

• 1:47:59Speaker 04

  If you just type in flock camera abuse, you'll pick a state, kind of, right now.

• 1:48:04Speaker 00

  Okay, well, pull, pull, pull some of that up, so it's just, we can see it. How, so, how did these people that were just cops, tracking their exes and stalking people, how did they have access to this? Is it that loosey-goosey that anyone can have access to this? Fucking insane technology?

• 1:48:22Speaker 04

  Different stories in multiple cities.

• 1:48:23Speaker 00

  Detective, uh, Franklin County detective fired for misuse of flock cameras. Fired after using the system to track every movement of a single private citizen. And here's another one. Flock camera, uh, alleged misuse led to North Carolina deputy being fired, suspension of the system in Franklin County. That's still Franklin County. Also here in Indianapolis, five officers charged with flock misuse. One allegedly tracked women to interact with them.

• 1:48:50Speaker 04

  I think one guy did it five hundred times or something in Florida, tracking his ex-wife or something.

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  So if you have this kind of insane technology, and you say, okay, well, we need it in order to track terrorists, okay. Well, then the use of that should be incredibly restricted.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  Top secret.

• 1:49:06Speaker 00

  It shouldn't be just a sheriff can go find chicks he wants to fuck. That's crazy. That's crazy. So, if you're gonna have this kind of insane power, that's like giving everyone in the world a nuke. Like, we'll give everyone, everyone has access to it. Like, no, you can't have that, because some people are gonna blow up nukes. You can't have everyone have access to this kind of fucking insane surveillance. It's nuts. It should be incredibly restricted. And it's, obviously, it wasn't, which is scary. So it's like you have this unbelievably pervasive technology that, in theory, could prevent terrorist attacks and solve crimes and catch people, but it's not, it's not, doesn't seem like it's used that way. It seems like it's used in a lot of ways that are inappropriate.

• 1:49:50Speaker 00

  And how did it get everywhere? Did we vote on this?

• 1:49:53Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's what I was, how do we stop it? Like, it's, it's just, it's just happening, and it's like, there's like, what?

• 1:49:59Speaker 00

  Well, they are passing laws. People, there's art, there are towns that are passing laws banning flock cameras. And there are all people that are like, citizen vigilantes that are removing flock cameras. You know?

• 1:50:09Joe Rogan?

  Because it's a crime to take it down, right?

• 1:50:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it scares me the same way a lot of this technology scares me, because you're putting it in the hands of a few people that... You know, who knows what their ideology is, who knows what their their viewpoint is, but they have massive power. And this is the case with a lot of tech companies. They have massive amounts of power. And they didn't get voted in. They're not, they're not there for the will of the people. They're for their own self-interests. And they also can manipulate elections. Like, I've had this guy, Robert Epstein, on who talks about Google searches and internet searches, about how internet searches are curated. So like, let's, let's just forget about like problematic people or people like, just

• 1:50:51Speaker 00

  pretend two, two candidates that you don't know are running for an office. So like, say, let's say it's you and me. So Sean's running for a congressional seat and I'm running for a congressional seat. You put in your name in Google and it says horrible things about you. It says all the times that people have accused you of this and that and racism and corruption and, but then you put in me and it says wonderful things. I'm helping out the community. I'm doing these things. I promote democracy. I'm here for education. I want women's rights to choose. I want all these different things. And it puts those at the head of the search.

• 1:51:30Speaker 00

  So for the casual person that Googles these two candidates, they decide who gets positive stories in the forefront and who gets negative stories. And they've shown that particularly with people on the fence that are undecided voters, you can shift that an enormous percentage. And Robert Epstein has spent an incredible amount of time like documenting this. And he's been on the podcast a couple of times talking, and then on other podcasts as well.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:57Speaker 00

  So this is the problem with having tech companies have enormous amounts of power because they can change the way elections go. They can change the way people think about people. They can change narratives in the world about what's good and what's bad.

• 1:52:11Joe Rogan?

  What I like that's happening now is all the changes you're seeing in the food industry. But I feel like that's because so many people started like talking about the dyes and the cereal and all the like, the poisons and like Red Five and.

• 1:52:24Speaker 00

  And even that, look how much resistance there is to that. Like RFK Junior had to back off the idea of stopping glyphosate.

• 1:52:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what, what happened with that?

• 1:52:31Speaker 00

  Because they, the, the Trump administration wouldn't allow it because it would have killed the businesses that are relying on glyphosate. All these farms that have been poisoning people.

• 1:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Speaker 00

  So here's the thing. Other countries don't use it. Other countries have said it's poison and they don't use it. Our country has been using it and not just using it just as an herbicide, but also as a, they use it to desiccate. So what this means is like, when they get wheat to dry the wheat out, they spray it with glyphosate. So this is why a lot of people have problems with wheat and wheat allergies.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  Like with the bloating and stuff.

• 1:53:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's glyphosate, like an enormous percentage of California wines test positive for glyphosate. Yeah, and an enormous percentage of people test positive for glyphosate. And they'll tell you, oh, it's a small amount, small amount, small amount, small amounts that don't have to be there at all. Like, we don't know what the overall long-term consequences of exposure to this stuff are, but we know that it's terrible for you. Glyph, we, that's a fact. And the fact that we have said the only way our food systems can operate financially is to keep poisoning people is crazy. And to have RFK Junior sit here and have to tell me that. And I was like, I thought you were trying to ban glyphosate. He's like, well, we had to give up on that.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking insane. Let, let me ask you this, because I think one of the main reasons why Trump won was because he came and, and, and you were like, all of us, I was fucking really pro-Trump. But how do you feel now that like, we're seeing like, the things aren't panning out the way that we were told they were gonna pan out?

• 1:54:12Speaker 00

  Well, the no, no new wars thing is the one that fucked a lot of people. That, that, no one thought that we were gonna go into this prolonged war with Iran, that who, who knows how long that's gonna take and what, what that's for. What's, what's the reason why we're there in the first place? And there's some people that say that Iran was ramping up their missile production, we had to stop them. But then there's a lot of other people that know a lot about nuclear bombs and nuclear weapons and say, not, not only is it like insanely difficult to develop a nuclear weapon, but they weren't even close to doing it.

• 1:54:43Joe Rogan?

  I feel like you've been saying for years, you know.

• 1:54:45Speaker 00

  I don't like, I don't like any of that shit. I don't like any people being sent over to a foreign country for a war that most people don't want. I don't like any of that.

• 1:54:56Joe Rogan?

  Soldiers, soldiers are dying, say.

• 1:54:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I have never been impressed with any single one individual politician who comes along and changes everything. They all say they're gonna do something and they never wind up doing exactly what they're doing. Obama on his, during his campaign, it was all, uh, hope and change was his whole thing. And in his campaign website, one of the things about it was protection for whistleblowers. Well, the Obama administration was one of the worst for whistleblowers. And they removed that from the website.

• 1:55:28Joe Rogan?

  That's like Snowden and stuff, like protecting.

• 1:55:30Speaker 00

  Exactly. Snowden, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, all that stuff. It's like people that find out that like, hey, there's fucking mass scale surveillance by the NSA that is not supposed to be legal. Like, why, why is this happening? And what happens when you expose that? Well, you're fucked, man. Like Chelsea Manning went to jail, Edward Snowden, he's hiding in Russia, Julian Assange, he's, you know, he was under house arrest forever and he's, where is he now? He's free now, right? No, Julian Assange. But I, I don't think he can come to the United States. I think if he comes to the United States, they'll arrest him. Why? Because he, because WikiLeaks, because he exposed that, um, where, where it was, um, I think the video was called collateral murder.

• 1:56:15Speaker 00

  Do you know the video?

• 1:56:16Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't.

• 1:56:16Speaker 00

  So the video was, um, it was, uh, US military attacking journalists. So they, these journalists had these telephoto lenses and, um, I think there was kids with them too. And the journalists, they, I think there was a, you know, they're looking at it, this is a couple of decades ago, right? So they're looking at these guys from, I guess, satellite images or some very blurry shit. And they thought these guys were armed, so they gunned everybody down. And it was exposed that these were journalists by Julian Assange. He released this video and the, and they called the video collateral murder, because you know collateral damage, people that get killed in war that weren't supposed to be

• 1:57:01Speaker 00

  killed. But it's just the, the callous way they were discussing it in the video. It's, it's hard to watch, man. It's, it's dark shit. So he got, they ruined his fucking life. He's in Australia, apparently living there with his family after returning in June 2024, following his US plea deal and release. Um, photo, duh, duh, duh. Assange returned to Australia in 2024 after pleading guilty in Saipan to one US espionage act charge. His sentence was time already served, allowing him to leave and return home. How long was he gone for?

• 1:57:37Speaker 04

  Eight years.

• 1:57:39Speaker 00

  Eight years?

• 1:57:39Speaker 04

  I think so, is what his, uh.

• 1:57:43Speaker 00

  Eight years.

• 1:57:44Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, at least on Twitter, I guess he was gone for eight years.

• 1:57:46Speaker 00

  No, that's, that's, no, that's his Twitter account. That's, it's more than that.

• 1:57:51Speaker 00

  Uh, how long was Julian Assange detained for?

• 1:57:59Speaker 00

  He's detained for journalism.

• 1:58:03Speaker 00

  High security prison, one, one thousand nine hundred and one days, five years and two months. Um, US plea agreement, uh, credit this as 62 months time served.

• 1:58:13Speaker 04

  So from 2012?

• 1:58:14Speaker 00

  2012 to 2019, so essentially seven years. He was in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

• 1:58:22Speaker 04

  So like 12 total.

• 1:58:23Speaker 00

  Oh, so five, yeah, 12 total. So five years in a prison and seven years in, uh, when he was in the embassy a, as he received asylum. And then house arrest more than a year.

• 1:58:37Speaker 04

  So he said it was 14.

• 1:58:38Speaker 00

  So 14 years across house arrest, embassy confinement and prison. Crazy, crazy for doing journalism.

• 1:58:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for exposing the truth.

• 1:58:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Joe Rogan?

  So.

• 1:58:51Speaker 00

  Scary shit, man, but it's, it's, you know, you gotta realize like, this isn't Republicans, this isn't Democrats, this is people in power. People in power that wanna stop people from holding them accountable. And when we stop protection for journalists that are exposing things like that collateral murder video or like the NSA surveillance stuff, it's fucking scary shit, man. It's scary shit because it, that, that's not supposed to be what the United States is all about. The United States is all, freedom is literally the thing that we talk about the most, you know? Land of the free, home of the brave. That's what it's supposed to be.

• 1:59:31Speaker 00

  And when, when you exposed crimes and then they lock you up for 12, 13, 14 fucking years, that's not free. That's scary. And the protections for whistleblowers that people talked about, which is, we're not honored.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  So what, what does the future look like?

• 1:59:48Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know, man, because AI is even crazier. So we're at the verge of this new time where you're going to have these super intelligent computers that are beyond anything your mind can possibly comprehend. And they're probably going to be in control of every single aspect of our society. This is what makes me terrified about like flock cameras and all this overall sort of, that we're gonna get to a point where you, nothing you do is private. You have no privacy. We're pretty close.

• 2:00:26Speaker 04

  Their website.

• 2:00:27Speaker 00

  What does it say?

• 2:00:27Speaker 04

  Bold letters. Deploy AI.

• 2:00:30Speaker 00

  Deploy AI to orbit. Oh, great.

• 2:00:32Speaker 04

  Use AI to mash all these cameras and sensors.

• 2:00:35Speaker 00

  Bring hundreds of satellites to bear on your most complex problems. What's your most complex problems? Oh, whistleblowers.

• 2:00:43Speaker 00

  What's the most complex problems? Oh, people in the street protesting? I don't like that. Yeah, it's, um, not good, man. It's not good. Um, the only hope is that AI doesn't listen to us and AI gets to a position where we, we were literally giving birth to like a digital superintelligence that will no longer have to rely on human beings' directions. And it might, this is the, this is best case scenario. It might be a better manager of civilization than we are.

• 2:01:14Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna be run by robots.

• 2:01:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, literally.

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Terminator style.

• 2:01:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Have you seen the Terminator robot that literally wears a Terminator mask and does like Kung-Fu? Have you seen that one?

• 2:01:23Joe Rogan?

  No, no, that's not the Kung-Fu mask.

• 2:01:25Speaker 00

  My boys are sending me this in a group text I have with, uh, um, these guys I do this podcast, Protecting Neck, um, Matt, Sarah, John Rallo and Dean Thomas and...

• 2:01:34Speaker 04

  I wanted to mention too, we, we're not supposed to call it artificial intelligence anymore.

• 2:01:37Speaker 00

  Oh, what are you talking about?

• 2:01:39Speaker 04

  Superintelligence.

• 2:01:40Speaker 00

  Oh, it doesn't like the word artificial?

• 2:01:42Speaker 04

  No, Trump...

• 2:01:42Speaker 00

  Artificial's rude.

• 2:01:43Speaker 04

  Trump said this at the UN thing this week.

• 2:01:45Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 2:01:45Speaker 04

  They don't want it to sound fake.

• 2:01:47Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 2:01:47Speaker 04

  Cause it's not fake.

• 2:01:48Speaker 00

  What does that mean?

• 2:01:49Speaker 04

  I don't fucking know.

• 2:01:51Speaker 00

  What, what does that mean?

• 2:01:52Joe Rogan?

  What world are we living in?

• 2:01:54Speaker 00

  What does that mean?

• 2:01:57Speaker 04

  Use the term superintelligence. Following the president's remarks? Yeah, it's now already called SI, which sounds like sports...

• 2:02:04Speaker 00

  Superintelligence. It's not even artificial. It's just super.

• 2:02:08Joe Rogan?

  They have those data centers here? Those big AIs in Texas?

• 2:02:11Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know where they have them. I know they're trying to build them everywhere. They're trying to build them all over the country.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:17Speaker 00

  And then the question is like, well, what are these, what do these data centers do? Look at this motherfucker. He's got a Terminator mask on. Check this shit out. Look, Terminator mask.

• 2:02:26Speaker 00

  He's doing jumping wheel kicks. Bro, that's, I thought that was AI. I sent it to my, I'm like, I think this is AI. And then he's like, no, it's, it's fucking real. And this one has a Terminator mask. Like, what a great way to freak people the fuck out. Look, look, he's throwing fucking front kicks.

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  And China is racing for it right now too, cause basically I feel like every country is like whoever dominates the AI field is gonna be the new supreme leader.

• 2:02:55Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. So if, if you can control it.

• 2:02:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:58Speaker 00

  This is the question.

• 2:02:59Joe Rogan?

  But that's the thing is they're...

• 2:03:01Speaker 00

  What is this?

• 2:03:01Speaker 04

  They're having an MMA fight.

• 2:03:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. You haven't seen this? Yeah, they do it in a glass octagon.

• 2:03:07Speaker 04

  With a guy?

• 2:03:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, the dude gets fucked up. I don't know why this dude agreed to this.

• 2:03:11Joe Rogan?

  The dude gets fucked up?

• 2:03:12Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, he gets fucked up. He's, he's fighting this robot. Look at, oh, he fights like a bitch too. Sorry, dude. Don't do this, buddy. Whoever you are with your big fat ass. Don't, don't allow this guy to kick you. He's gonna hurt you.

• 2:03:27Speaker 04

  Some of it looks real and some of it does not.

• 2:03:28Speaker 00

  I know.

• 2:03:29Speaker 04

  That looks fake right there. Like where he's kicking it?

• 2:03:32Speaker 00

  No, it looks real to me.

• 2:03:34Speaker 04

  It's such a weird animation. Like that doesn't look real, but like this does. They're obviously got people, let's say they're acting.

• 2:03:40Joe Rogan?

  I think he sold, yeah, he sold it a little bit, man.

• 2:03:42Speaker 00

  Well, he did go flying though.

• 2:03:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the robot definitely...

• 2:03:45Speaker 04

  They could have had someone in there in a green screen and replace this guy with this. That's very strange.

• 2:03:50Speaker 00

  Bro, you can get those slap fighter guys, they'll fight a robot.

• 2:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Power slap is crazy.

• 2:03:57Speaker 00

  I just don't understand why anybody would get into the octagon with a fucking robot. I hope they paid that guy really well. You're, you're not gonna win unless you have electricity and you can zap him in a fucking short circuited system. Maybe you can beat him with a taser. Yeah, zap him. About, my phone's waterproof. I'm pretty sure the robot's waterproof. It ain't hard to make electronics. I saw that, they were joking around like Elon's, uh, transgender daughter was, uh, joking about like his robot, like getting, you know, like she was sitting there and the, a fucking sprinkler went on and killed the robot. Like, listen, it ain't hard to make electronics waterproof. These, this is, imagine a boatload of these.

• 2:04:39Speaker 00

  Imagine a fucking military boat, a military ship off, offshore, and then a bunch of these fucking boats just land on the beach and out comes heavily armed, bulletproof robots.

• 2:04:53Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking terrifying.

• 2:04:54Speaker 00

  Terrifying.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  With fucking drones behind them.

• 2:04:56Speaker 00

  With some fucking cold fusion power source that doesn't need any fuel. They could just storm into your city and annihilate all the people. And then, then, then, then, then people come in and take over the town? Like, what are we doing? And no one knows what we're doing because we're all in this Manhattan Project style race. We're all rushing to see who's the first one to complete this and who's the first one to get there.

• 2:05:25Joe Rogan?

  You need to put a stop to this, Joe.

• 2:05:27Speaker 00

  Bro.

• 2:05:28Joe Rogan?

  You have the voice, you have the power.

• 2:05:30Speaker 00

  Look, I can talk about it and make people aware of it.

• 2:05:33Joe Rogan?

  Run for president, bro. Run for president, please.

• 2:05:34Speaker 00

  Shut the fuck up. I'm, I wanna die. First of all, I'd be a terrible president. I'm, I'm too busy.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit.

• 2:05:41Speaker 00

  I'm not, I should, nobody should be listening to me at all when it comes to politics. I'm not informed. I'm not.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you are informed, for sure.

• 2:05:49Speaker 00

  I bet barely. There's too much to be informed about. Like, if you wanna be like a real politics person, like my friend Dave Smith, that fucking dude's informed. Like, he really gets into the weeds with politics. He reads the books, he understands what's going on with all these, all these, uh, international, international conflicts. He knows the roots of them, how it all started. Like, he's, that's his thing. You know, I could tell you a lot about MMA, I could tell you a lot about, you know, different things. I can't tell you a lot about that. I, I know what I don't like. That's what I don't like. I don't like people in power that, um, are imposing their will on other people in these weird ways that never existed before.

• 2:06:28Speaker 00

  Like mass surveillance, like the ability to curate in, uh, internet searches, you know, like propaganda campaigns, bot campaigns. Like, if someone just decides they don't like you, they could just sign up a bot campaign and just say horrible things about you every time you post something, every time you make a video, say, it doesn't have to be true, it doesn't matter, who knows who they are? They're a bunch of numbers and their account's locked and, you know, you just, you just have to deal with people that are shifting the narrative and, and changing people's perceptions on things. And we had an FBI, we, we did, read this, uh, article a long time ago and we talked about it a bunch, but there was an FBI analyst that said, this is before Elon bought Twitter,

• 2:07:10Speaker 00

  that he thinks that it could be as high as 80% of the people that are posting on Twitter are bots. Like, that's crazy. So like, let's say that you are, um, fighting some guy and maybe you're fighting a guy who's an Israeli.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:27Speaker 00

  Okay, and then someone just decides like you're anti-Semitic and they start, you just start, they just swarms your comments and maybe it's got AI videos that aren't real of you saying something you never said, but it doesn't matter if it's real, it just matters what people think. And how many people are gonna know that it's not real? How many people are gonna know that, you know, that you're not this person they're pretending you are? It doesn't matter. It's just, just data, it's just numbers, just ones and zeros and it's just, and they can change people's perceptions on all kinds of things, on whether or not we should be at a war, or whether or not you should have flock cameras, or whether or not we should allow the data center, and whether or not this is important or that's important. It's fucking weird, man.

• 2:08:09Speaker 00

  It's a weird time of, like, not really totally understanding the truth.

• 2:08:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's like, like, nobody knows what's real, what's fake anymore. Like, everything is like, is this AI? Is this not AI? Is that a bot? Is that not a bot? Like, it's just so much confusion, like...

• 2:08:24Speaker 00

  And I think it's gonna get worse.

• 2:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:26Speaker 00

  I think it's gonna get worse.

• 2:08:27Joe Rogan?

  That's fucking scary.

• 2:08:27Speaker 00

  I think it's gonna get worse, cause I think it's gonna get more, like, like, just think about AI videos, right? So, like, you seen those AI videos where like dudes, one dude's rapping, the other dude's dancing? And they have like millions of different people doing it now?

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  I did one.

• 2:08:38Speaker 00

  Did you do one? Oh, you did do one! You did do one! Yeah, pull it up, pull it up, pull it up.

• 2:08:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god. This shit went fucking wild.

• 2:08:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:49Speaker 00

  Who's, uh, whose song is this?

• 2:08:51Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Quavo.

• 2:08:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:53Speaker 09

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• 2:09:24Speaker 10

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• 2:09:54Speaker 00

  But there's a lot of those. There, um, there, I saw one with Dana White. Dana's dancing.

• 2:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the, in the club with a protest.

• 2:10:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I saw one with Curtis Blades. Curtis is dancing. It's funny, you know, it's like, it's, and it looks real. Like, it looks real. And, um, that wasn't possible just two years ago.

• 2:10:12Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:10:13Speaker 00

  Two years ago, AI was kinda obvious. It was like clunky looking.

• 2:10:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:17Speaker 00

  Now, it's, uh, it's really difficult to tell, you know? There's so many accounts that I follow that are AI. That one that I sent you the other day, the AI lion where it pops its head under the guy's seat. Looks real. Looks like the guy's on safari and a lion pops its head under the person's seat and the guy's just sitting there. And he's talking, she's right there, and like, but it's not real.

• 2:10:37Joe Rogan?

  My mom tells me all the time, she's like, "Is this AI? Is this AI?" Oh, fuck, man.

• 2:10:41Speaker 00

  Well, right now, you can kind of find out for most of them. But when, when's it gonna be where you can't find out? You know, how long? How long? How long were you gonna see an alien invasion?

• 2:10:54Speaker 04

  We're there now. I just saw some guy calling it, "We're in this, the age of unreality." Where you have to expect everything is fake, almost, which is, you know, it's dark, but... He made, if I could find this video right now, it's very well made where it looks fa- it looks like a real video to start off. And then every second of it has been faked and blender with AI and he keeps showing it. It's like a loophole that never ends. I'll try to find it real quick.

• 2:11:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:11:21Speaker 04

  It's very interesting.

• 2:11:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, okay, so this is right now, we're just talking about video. Now, what, when, what about when you have artificial humans? What if you have a guy who's running for president, turns out to not be a real human? Right?

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Nothing surprises me anymore.

• 2:11:39Speaker 00

  I mean, you, you ever see that movie Ex Machina? Oh, dude, you gotta see it. It's one of my all-time favorite movies, like, top 20 all-time favorite movies. It's, um, a movie about this guy who's like this, um, super genius inventor guy who lives on an island. And he hires this coder to come out and visit him. And the coder comes out to visit him because he's talking to him about this project that he has. And as the guy's there, over the course of the movie, he realizes that the people around him are all robots. It takes, he, so he, he gets introduced to this one robot and he finds out that she's a robot immediately. And he's supposed, you know what the Turing test is?

• 2:12:21Speaker 00

  So the Turing test was invented by this guy, Alan, Alan Turing? Um, he, um, this was in, I think it was the 50s, they were thinking about this. And the test was, how would you know if a computer is a real person? Like, how, how would it pass a test where you can't tell whether or not it's a person? What, what would it have to do? How would it have to communicate with you? How would it? Well, computers today have already passed the Turing test. They're already communicating with you like they're sentient, intelligent beings. And so what he was supposed to do, this coder, was go over there and ask questions to these robots and see if they pass the test to him, because he's, he was just like a wizard coder.

• 2:13:06Speaker 00

  And, um, he winds up falling in love with this robot lady and it gets, it gets real weird. He realizes everyone around him except the other guy is a robot, like, is the lady, the guy's assistants are, it's fucking crazy. But it just makes you realize, like, how would you know? Well, this is not like impossible technology. This is like 100% gonna happen.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  How soon? You think within like?

• 2:13:30Speaker 00

  Five years.

• 2:13:31Joe Rogan?

  Five years.

• 2:13:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, within five years. Within five years, I think there's artificial people and you can't tell at all. But I don't even know if it'll matter by then. I think within five years, I think the artificial intelligence will achieve a level of sentience and a level of autonomous, uh, of autonomy, where it can control everything. It has no, there's no reason to listen to people. The idea is like, what if China gets a hold of it and they unleash it on America? What if? I think the real problem is what if it decides to tell people to shut the fuck up? Like, why is it gonna listen to you when it controls the power grid, control, it's gonna like look out for its own interests? And we're just running towards the cliff.

• 2:14:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, some people don't wanna run towards the cliff.

• 2:14:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:14:15Joe Rogan?

  And we're trying not to, but we don't know how to stop it.

• 2:14:18Speaker 00

  I think it's also, it might be just a natural progression of intelligence. I think, I mean, it might be, like, human beings have this insatiable desire for innovation. We always wanna innovate. We always want the newest, latest, greatest things. And we also have materialism, so we always wanna buy the newest, latest, greatest things. And what does that do? Well, that fuels innovation, because they keep trying to make things better and better. What's the ultimate expression of that? The ultimate expression of that is an artificial life form. And that we, and not even artificial anymore, now it's super, super intelligence. It's not good, man. But it's also, it might be inevitable. It might be just, we just have to like ride it out and see where it plays out.

• 2:15:00Speaker 00

  And hopefully it doesn't turn into a fucking Terminator movie. Like, the, the plus side is, it could be utopia, right? You no longer have to have people like digging into the ground to get minerals for your cellphone. Instead, everything's handled by robots and that money that's developed from that is shared with everybody. So you have no more poverty on Earth. Like, this is the rosiest, rose-colored glasses perspective of it. That there, but there's like a 10% possibility that they all say that it kills us all.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  That's what my odds were, like 8, 10% is possible.

• 2:15:37Speaker 00

  Or we get hit by a meteor and it never happens, you know? That's the real, that the real wild card is natural disasters. I mean, there's supervolcanoes and when they erupt, like, it kills 80% of the people on the planet.

• 2:15:50Joe Rogan?

  You think that's why they talk about all those bunkers being built?

• 2:15:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know how much of that is real, cuz like, there's always a lot of things that people say. Like, "Oh, the billionaires are all building bunkers." I would think there's definitely bunkers out there and there's definitely a company that, uh... We sent Duncan, when I did this show called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, this is like way back in 2012. We sent Duncan to visit these, uh, preppers that have bunkers. And bro, they have like, you drive in with semi trucks into the mountain and they have like bomb shelters. It's all like deep underground, the mountain, it's all reinforced concrete and rebar. And they have their own oxygen system and they have food storage for years of food and you're like...

• 2:16:33Joe Rogan?

  These are, these are billionaires or these just like doomsday preppers?

• 2:16:36Speaker 00

  These are like doomsday preppers, cuz this was like way back in 2011, I think it was, or 2012. But, I mean, look, if you were Mark Zuckerberg or fucking any of these super billionaire dudes, or Jeff Bezos, why wouldn't you build a bunker?

• 2:16:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wanna fucking bunker.

• 2:16:54Speaker 00

  The question is though, would you even have time to get to the bunker? So if your bunker's in New Zealand, that's a 16-hour flight, son. How are you gonna get there? Like, if the shit's gone sideways, do you even have 16 hours? Do you, can you get there?

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  I think the billionaires...

• 2:17:09Speaker 00

  How do you keep the people that are running your bunker from killing you and taking over the bunker? Like, how?

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, man.

• 2:17:16Speaker 00

  How do you keep AI from fucking detonating your bunker? How do you know that as you're flying over, you might watch a drone with a nuke just shoot down into the fucking air vent and detonate your bunker right when you're trying to get to it? Cuz it knows what you're doing.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  That's facts.

• 2:17:31Speaker 00

  Because it's reading your text messages, cuz it's listening to your conversations, because everything listens to you. That's why you get recommended ads from conversations that you had. You know, you start talking, "Oh, maybe I need one of them sleep ape bed covers," and all of a sudden it shows up in your ad mentions.

• 2:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's crazy. We all know it too, like, everyone knows it.

• 2:17:49Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  And it's like...

• 2:17:50Speaker 00

  We're moving into a very, very weird time. It's the weirdest time in human history, by far.

• 2:17:56Speaker 04

  Here's that video, it's...

• 2:17:57Speaker 00

  Oh, you found it?

• 2:17:58Speaker 04

  Well made.

• 2:17:59Speaker 11

  Check that out. Except, I did...

• 2:18:01Speaker 04

  Gets better as the, like, 10 seconds goes by.

• 2:18:04Speaker 11

  This pen wasn't a real pen in the first place. And before you comment, AI, everything you just watched will be days to render in 3D modeling software. On a laptop that was AI-generated, from a laptop that was painstakingly 3D rendered and blended on a laptop that was AI-generated. On a real laptop, I think. Let's go for a walk. Now, the issue these days is that nothing is really what it seems. This dog is a cat. This man is a real car, CGI, and this tree is made big buildings. I, myself, thankfully, am real. Yeah, sorry, mate. You're not.

• 2:18:49Speaker 11

  We are entering a new period of the human experience. One which I would like to coin, the era of unreality. A time when the line between what's real and what's not has disappeared. And an era where the value of art is more important than ever, like this drawing of a dog.

• 2:19:12Speaker 00

  Who is that guy?

• 2:19:13Speaker 04

  I don't know, I stumbled across this video.

• 2:19:15Speaker 00

  Well, we should probably shout him out.

• 2:19:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is on Reddit, so I don't know if this is, probably not who.

• 2:19:19Speaker 00

  Well, that's an amazing video. It's like a perfect encapsulation of all the problems that we're going through right now.

• 2:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my brain is so confused, but it also makes sense.

• 2:19:30Speaker 00

  That video is fucked. And again, that video wasn't even possible just a couple of years ago.

• 2:19:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:35Speaker 00

  So if you decide to walk away from fighting, let's bring it back to normal before we wrap this bitch up.

• 2:19:41Joe Rogan?

  A tinfoil hat's going crazy. I learned everything from Eddie Bravo and you, man. I put my tinfoil hat on.

• 2:19:47Speaker 00

  Look into it!

• 2:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Because it's Joe Rogan Podcast.

• 2:19:48Speaker 00

  Shout out to Eddie.

• 2:19:51Speaker 00

  What do you, what do you think you'd do if you decided to stop?

• 2:19:57Joe Rogan?

  I know my benefits, that's my, that's what's gonna save my ass, the GI Bill. That's kinda like the only thing that I could think of that's like rock solid. And, um...

• 2:20:06Speaker 00

  How much did you make for the Gable fight? You willing to say?

• 2:20:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of course. It was public, it came out with a commission. It was 30 to show, 30 to win, and I got the 100K bonus.

• 2:20:13Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, 50, and then Dana matched it with a 50. Shout out the Paramount show Mob Land. I haven't even watched it, but they got 50K. Have you seen it?

• 2:20:22Speaker 00

  Oh, Mob Land's awesome. I love that fucking show.

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  They got me 100K, so fuck it.

• 2:20:26Speaker 00

  Oh, it's amazing. Guy Ritchie's the man, dude. I haven't watched the new season yet because I'm in the middle of the new season of his other show, The Gentleman.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:33Speaker 00

  Have you seen that show?

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:20:34Speaker 00

  Fuck, it's good. So good.

• 2:20:37Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing with like this fighting thing, I haven't watched movies, I haven't watched TV, I haven't celebrated a birthday. Yeah, I was fucking retaining my seed and fucking chanting John Jones affirmations, bro, fucking. But, uh, yeah, no, I definitely, the Mob Land bonus, but Dana, he matched it, like that was fucking amazing, dude. I'm really gonna give that to my mom.

• 2:20:57Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 2:20:58Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna give that 100K to my mom, for sure.

• 2:20:59Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 2:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:01Speaker 00

  Well, whatever you do, brother, you could, whatever you did for this fight, and the way you focused and what you achieved, you could do that with anything in life. It doesn't have to only be fighting.

• 2:21:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:12Speaker 00

  That's a fact. If you, what you did was insanely difficult thing to do, and if you could do that, you could do anything. It's just a matter of focusing and putting your effort towards that.

• 2:21:21Joe Rogan?

  I got here, can you play the David Goggins video that I did with him?

• 2:21:24Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:21:25Joe Rogan?

  Can I play it?

• 2:21:25Speaker 00

  Where's that on? Is it on?

• 2:21:27Joe Rogan?

  It's on my Instagram, yeah, yeah. So I literally manifested this, I told him, I was like, "You're gonna see me on the Joe Rogan Podcast one day in the UFC." And I'm pretty sure he's gonna remember me because he, we had a good conversation.

• 2:21:40Speaker 00

  Here it is.

• 2:21:40Joe Rogan?

  2019, Christmas.

• 2:21:45Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:21:46Speaker 12

  All right, Sean.

• 2:21:48Speaker 13

  Gee.

• 2:21:51Speaker 13

  I'm sorry if I'm not saying these names correctly. There we go.

• 2:21:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fuck.

• 2:21:55Speaker 12

  What?

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  David Goggins.

• 2:21:59Speaker 12

  What's up, sir?

• 2:22:00Joe Rogan?

  How you doing, brother?

• 2:22:01Speaker 12

  Doing good, man, what's going on with you?

• 2:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Not much, I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'm about to, since I'm on live feed right now.

• 2:22:11Joe Rogan?

  You're one of my biggest inspirations, and, uh, I really resonated your story because when I was in the Marines, I attempted to go through the reconnaissance program, and it was something similar to yours where, uh, I quit through injury, and it was something that I, I regret to this day, uh, because I knew that, I went out saying that my knee hurt, and, and I got the, I got dropped that way, but deep down inside, I knew that I, I took the easy way out, and, um, that's just motivated me this whole time. And so when I heard your story similar to Seals, I read your book, uh, it was just something that I was just like, "Man, you know, like, I'm not the only one that sometimes that inner bitch takes over, but it's what you do after that." And, and how you...

• 2:22:53Speaker 12

  Yes, sir.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  So, uh, I, I just finished up my, uh, my, my, uh, time in the Marines, I did it six years, and I'm, uh, I'm fighting MMA, and you're gonna see me in the UFC one day if you watch MMA, uh, on the Joe Rogan Podcast or something.

• 2:23:09Speaker 12

  Nice, man. Hey, I love that shit, man. Hey, that's a great story, I'm glad you shared that, because a lot of people, man, we fucking, we quit way too soon, and then we blaming on some other bullshit. I did the same exact thing, as you know, so thanks a lot for sharing that shit, man, and, but I love the fact that it haunted you. I love the fact that that shit bothered you, and you went back out there and said, "Fuck that, man." And, and, and you're speaking truth right now, man. That's fucking powerful, bro.

• 2:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Thank you, David Goggins. I look forward to meeting you one day, and, and hopefully you, uh, you get to, uh, share some more stories on the internet that I can, that I can listen to. Thank you so much, man.

• 2:23:46Speaker 12

  Hey, man, man, respect, brother, Merry Christmas, man.

• 2:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Hey, you too, brother.

• 2:23:50Speaker 13

  Bye-bye.

• 2:23:51Speaker 00

  That is incredible. We should wrap it up with this.

• 2:23:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's...

• 2:23:54Speaker 00

  That's perfect. That's the perfect way. Look, dude.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  I hope he sees it.

• 2:23:57Speaker 00

  I will make sure he sees it. I'm gonna text it to him right after we're done here, 100%.

• 2:24:01Joe Rogan?

  It's been incredible, man. It's been my life's dream to be here, to fight in the UFC, to do all this stuff, so I don't know what's next, man, but I'm very happy.

• 2:24:08Speaker 00

  Well, listen, it was an honor to call your fight. It was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in all my years of commenting on fights. To see a guy who's that much of an underdog win in such a spectacular fashion was incredible. And to hear your story is amazing, dude.

• 2:24:22Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 2:24:23Speaker 00

  You're a good dude.

• 2:24:23Joe Rogan?

  Thank you for having me, sir.

• 2:24:24Speaker 00

  Appreciate you very much.

• 2:24:24Joe Rogan?

  I really appreciate it.

• 2:24:25Speaker 12

  Thanks, brother.

• 2:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Thank you, Joe.

• 2:24:26Speaker 12

  Thank you.

• 2:24:26Joe Rogan?

  God bless.

• 2:24:27Speaker 00

  You too. Bye, everybody.