Why Most Relationships FAIL & How to Build Successful Communication Skills w/Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh EP 1143

Today's guest is Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh. He is a licensed marriage family therapist with a B. A in Psychology, an M. A. in Clinical Psychology, and a Ph. D. in Depth Psychology. What you’re about to experience in the first part of the interview is an interaction with Lewis and Dr. Siri during a breakdown. For the first time ever two guests were accidentally booked at the same time and Dr. Siri had to wait a few hours before his interview was able to start. He shares his feelings about the situation and both he and Lewis navigate through an uncomfortable conversation in the first part of the interview before getting into relationships. For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1143Read Dr. Siri's book: The Pocket GuruCheck out his website: https://sirisatnam.com/The Power of Erotic Intelligence with Esther Perel: https://link.chtbl.com/732-podFind Lasting Love with Matthew Hussey: https://link.chtbl.com/811-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1143 with Dr. Siri Satnam Singh.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  How did that go wrong? You're so professional. I think, uh... It wasn't anger, it was hurt.

• 0:12Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  Therapist David Richo once said, "Our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful parts of us." And Gabor Maté said, "The attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain." My guest today is Dr. Siri Satnam Singh. He is a licensed marriage therapist with a BA in psychology, an MA in clinical psychology, and a PhD in depth psychology. And Dr. Siri was featured in the ViceLand network production, "The Therapist", where he conducted therapy with celebrity musicians such as Katy Perry, Waka Flocka, and many more. And his latest book, "The Pocket Guru", was recently awarded the 2020 Walden Award for Excellence in Mind-Body Healing. And throughout this interview, I read passages from it to gain more clarity on the steps and techniques

• 1:20Lewis Howes?

  we can all use to deal with feelings, pain, and forgiveness. And at the very beginning of this episode, what you're about to experience is an interaction with myself and Dr. Siri, where we both had a breakdown. There was a misunderstanding on my part and our part on Greatness Media. For the first time ever, we booked two guests at the same time. And Dr. Siri waited in our building for a couple of hours before we were able to get his interview started. And as we began the interview, he wanted to share his feelings about the situation. And what you're going to experience is both of us navigating through an uncomfortable conversation for the first part of this interview before we get into the topic of relationships. I think this first part will be extremely helpful for you to witness, listen to,

• 2:02Lewis Howes?

  and experience for yourself to see how to navigate when you're feeling like you made a mistake or there was a misunderstanding or a breakdown on how you... Can handle it and also how to share and express your feelings in an authentic way. When you feel like someone else has created a breakdown with you. So I hope you enjoy this first part of this uncomfortable conversation. And in this episode, we discuss the biggest problems that cause most relationships to fail. The actions you can take to promote healthier relationships in your life. Advice that Dr. Siri shares for people who think about getting married. Why we should change the narrative around relationships that don't work. The steps to dealing with conflict and arriving at forgiveness, which was what I was trying to create the entire episode. That and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would need to hear it.

• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  Just copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or you can use the link. LewisHowes.com/1143. And if this is your first time here, then welcome to the School of Greatness. Click the subscribe button right now. Let me know what your thoughts are about this episode over on the review section on Apple Podcast. And in just a few moments, the one and only Dr. Siri Satnam Singh.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  I can completely understand feeling disrespected at your level.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:15Lewis Howes?

  Cause I have experienced that in

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Different settings on stages or events or going to a place and showing up and them being an hour late.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  And me being like, why am I here? So I completely understand.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  And again, not my intention.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 3:31Lewis Howes?

  And I apologize for you for creating that.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:34Lewis Howes?

  For you to feel that.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  How did that go wrong? So professional.

• 3:37Lewis Howes?

  We, I don't think we've ever double booked, but I think it's all perfect.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  I think it's

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Is it to have this conversation?

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  I think so.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  I think it's been, I think this conversation brings up something for both of us.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:51Lewis Howes?

  Makes our connection

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:54Lewis Howes?

  Unique.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:55Lewis Howes?

  By meeting each other.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  Not a perfect introduction.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:58Lewis Howes?

  To one another. We both probably needed to meet each other this time.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:02Lewis Howes?

  And I'm, I again, I'm coming from a place of gratitude of you expressing yourself as opposed to holding some Maybe you're still feeling resentment, but holding on to some type of resentment.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  While doing this.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  I've already lived older, more, longer than anyone on my mother's side.

• 4:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  So I don't, I mean, one thing in working with, I think that the section on anger may be very good that you can look at. Look at that section on anger, the statements. And that's where I stand with that. It's like, you know.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  I know you have a good part about forgiveness in here too, so where's the forgiveness one? We got forgiveness today.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  No, we're gonna go anger, then I will forgive.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  Okay, anger. Anger is an unsettling feeling.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  It sounds like you're having an unsettling feeling for hours.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:50Lewis Howes?

  Waiting.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:51Lewis Howes?

  Feeling disrespect. Anger stems from an unexpressed hurt.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  And so you're expressing this.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  I'm expressing my hurt.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  Anger is telling me to respect my hurt.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And what, okay.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  You're respecting your hurt.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  I respected my hurt.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  Communicating your hurt, yes. Anger held in can hurt and negatively impact your own personal health.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Okay. That means I go out of here feeling like a piece of cow dung.

• 5:16Lewis Howes?

  Anger must be acknowledged, and anger acknowledged and effectively expressed says, I am emotionally intelligent.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  And I love it that it's all effectively expressed, because ineffective expression causes what?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Not even there. Not even there. This is called the pocket guru, okay? It's to elevate.

• 5:35Lewis Howes?

  But what does ineffective expression of anger do in relationships in general?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Well, we know what that does. That doesn't bring harmony.

• 5:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  You know, no one grows.

• 5:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  No one grows.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  It's usually a moment of not resolution. I mean, now we're going forward.

• 5:58Lewis Howes?

  It's disconnection.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  You know, fire is, the anger is nothing but the fire element. It transforms. We're having a transformative moment here. I haven't even used the word ineffective in years. It never came to my consciousness until you said it.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, because you have effectively expressed here.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Right. See, it's not ineffective. Ineffective is not even in my consciousness.

• 6:21Lewis Howes?

  But it sounds like you work with a lot of people that use ineffective expression in their emotions, in their relationships, in their life, and it causes a lot of pain and upset for them.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  It's so interesting. I'm humanistic in my modality, and so...

• 6:38Speaker 01

  What's it like, like darkness, I always, I don't pathologize darkness, like ineffectively darkness. I sit with it and turn the cow dung into chocolate. So I don't even see cow dung. I do, but it's it's transforming into chocolate. So I don't see that as something that stinks up my, like, yes, it does, but it's like.

• 7:06Lewis Howes?

  It's fertilizer.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  You're growing.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:09Lewis Howes?

  The manure is actually.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't go to the negative stuff. I don't live there or sit there. I transform it.

• 7:16Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Lewis Howes?

  And then we go in from anger to forgiveness.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Are we there yet? Let's see, we're there.

• 7:21Lewis Howes?

  Anger to forgiveness.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  We may need one more in between.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  Maybe tomorrow we can think about that.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  One more. Feelings. Let's go to feelings.

• 7:29Lewis Howes?

  I like this, okay.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Feelings, feelings.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  My feelings are real.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:36Lewis Howes?

  What does it mean to be real? What is it? Is a feeling who you are or a moment that is real? So if I feel anger, does that mean I am an angry person? Or is it just a feeling that comes and goes, but it's not me?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  No, it is you. Feelings are real. What does that mean? There's the spiritual arena, there's the emotional arena, there's the physical arena, there's the mental arena. Feelings are emotional arena. We have to sit into that arena. So your feelings are real. If you're angry, you're angry.

• 8:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Does that mean that's who you are?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  And this telling me how I am.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  In this moment?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  In this moment.

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  Does that mean this is who I am?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Who I am is a vast, you know, that's a big picture. Who I am is a configuration of the, my ethnicity, my, my education, my relationship, all of that. That's who I am. I'm spiritual. But feelings and, and the majority of the people that come to me.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Have the greatest work to do in that arena because they want to. In our society, we devalue feelings.

• 8:50Lewis Howes?

  What do we say in general about feelings? They're not.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Most people don't even acknowledge them. Most people don't know what they're feeling.

• 8:56Lewis Howes?

  They just suppress them or they ignore them.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  They're numb.

• 8:58Lewis Howes?

  And so, my feelings are real.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Are real.

• 9:01Lewis Howes?

  Acknowledging them is key.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Is key.

• 9:04Lewis Howes?

  Is it acknowledging it to yourself or saying to everyone around you, this is how I feel?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Well, it's acknowledging to yourself, then what do I do with it? Let's see, you know, anger, I could have done a lot of things. I could have left.

• 9:18Lewis Howes?

  Why did you stay?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Uh, because I have to, uh, I wanted to sit into what is it to be mentally healthy? I know it's not an intentional mistake. And I like moments like this because I don't run away from them. Because it affirms, it's an opportunity for me to affirm that I am who I say I am. Or they say that I am.

• 9:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  I'm a man of higher consciousness.

• 9:47Lewis Howes?

  So we're gonna be constantly tested if we say these are the things we do.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  So.

• 9:51Lewis Howes?

  It's like the universe is bringing you tests to make sure.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  It's like, okay, so here you are.

• 9:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  And if I don't handle this correctly, then I'm not a man of elevated consciousness.

• 10:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  If I did not, I have seemingly, you know, elevating myself as well as you.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  See.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  My feelings are not always comfortable.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  But all of them are good.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  You're getting a dose of new air.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, I like it. My feelings are uncomfortable when my head and heart are in conflict.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Now see, that, that would have been, that's what I couldn't live with.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  But say for instance, I'm hurt by what you did. That's the real feeling, hurt. And if I don't express the hurt, it turns into anger.

• 10:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes, and then it turns into what? Resentment or it turns into?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 10:42Lewis Howes?

  Pain in your.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  And then I'm gonna go home.

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  You're causing pain in yourself.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Then I'm putting myself at risk for cancer.

• 10:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Hurt, anger, resentment. I gonna live with it. I, I, I went to that, that podcast and, and I didn't do it. And I wondered what would happen if I would have done it. And he stood there, all of that would have been there.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  All of that, that I wouldn't have resolved. I had to go to therapy and resolve it with somebody else. I'm resolving it with you. So that would have been, you know, my heart is feeling this, but my head can't own it. I can't sit with that. So I'm gonna leave.

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  So wait, you're, you're, would you say it again, your heart?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  See, my hea- my heart was hurt.

• 11:25Lewis Howes?

  But your head?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  My head is like saying, I'm not gonna deal with it.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  I'll just let it go or move on.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I'm gonna leave.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have dealt, see, if I would have left, I wouldn't have dealt with this. I would have carried all of this with me.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  That's not fun.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  And never want to see your picture again.

• 11:41Lewis Howes?

  Screw this guy. This guy's a piece of crap.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Louis, who? Oh, please.

• 11:45Lewis Howes?

  This guy's a piece of crap. Never, I was talking about, I'll be behind my back forever.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  You know, I resent it, because I wouldn't have dealt with that.

• 11:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  See, but they're, they're together.

• 11:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  My head, my heart, I was hurt, and the head says, acknowledge that. And effectively express it.

• 12:01Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, I love that. My feelings are never wrong. My head must intelligently guide me as to what to do, creating no harm to myself or to others.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm walking my talk.

• 12:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Which goes back to the, the word you don't like to use, ineffective expression. Because if you express something to other someone else in a harmful way, based on feelings, that wouldn't be a good use of transforming your emotions and feelings into the betterment of the moment, right? So it's how do you transform something where it feels not good, or disrespectful, or whatever, yucky in some way, how do I transform it into a, a better moment?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  It's practice.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you want, but what if the someone isn't receptive to listening to when you're feeling hurt or angry? What if a friend, me, a partner, married couple, parent, and they're just dismissing your feelings and emotions? Are you still able to transform your anger, or hurt, or sadness into something good if the witness is not witnessing it?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's where, you know, uh...

• 13:10Speaker 01

  How elevated and sensitive and intuitive and deep am I? I'm talking to you.

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  If I was talking to a child, I'd talk differently.

• 13:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  If I'm talking to an eighty-year-old woman who maybe lives in Bel Air, has never seen a black person, maybe I'd talk to her differently. So that's my sensitivity to know how to say it and who I'm sitting in front of.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  None of them are as conscious as you to understand how to say it to people differently.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  They can be as unconscious, I think you unconscious, as unconscious as they want to be. But if I'm conscious, then I bring your unconsciousness to consciousness, which I think I have.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  You can be as crazy as you want to be. I work in mental health. That's my field, so I have to be able to be mentally healthy to bring you to a state of mental health.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  That's why I've had five therapists. I'm in therapy right now.

• 14:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, me too.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm always working on myself.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, absolutely. My feelings must be supported by my head so that I am at one.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:23Lewis Howes?

  My feelings are the fuel that propel my growth.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  My growth.

• 14:28Lewis Howes?

  My feelings give me a deep understanding of myself in the moment.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 14:32Lewis Howes?

  What was the understanding of the incredible anger you felt in the moment with me?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  It wasn't anger, it was hurt.

• 14:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  I hadn't gotten to anger yet.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  Oh, gosh.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  I was like...

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  You got to anger when you came into here.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't realize, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was gonna do with it, because my manager, she's very nice, the whole thing. And you know, she, and we weren't, you know, there was no plot, there was no plan.

• 14:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  I didn't know, I'm just present.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  I make a living on being present.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  You know, I can usually spot things. Like I worked at an agency once, a social service agency in the black community, a doctor. And as soon as I walked into the agency, I saw this woman, a supervisor. I said, "Oh, my God, there's Judas over in the corner." First time I looked at her. And uh, and I got all the difficult clients, all the difficult clients. I'm the only licensed black therapist among these therapists. And uh, four years later, they lost that contract.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  And so they could only keep one contract therapist.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  And uh, so that same lady I saw four years ago, came up with a trumped up charge on me, so that her crony could keep the job and they could get rid of me.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  Oh man.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  And then one of the other therapists says, "Siri, we all do that." I said, "So now you see it." But that's my sensitivity. First time I saw, I went, "Oh God, she's not fooling me." She's a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a dick walking lie. And I saw it. It's that third eye, you know, I got, everybody got three eyes. I used nine.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. I used nine.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  My feelings when acknowledged and expressed show I am respecting myself.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  You're not abandoning yourself.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Cause you would, you'd be abandoning yourself and probably be out of integrity with yourself if you didn't effectively express them.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  Or process them in a way that's effective for you.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yes, force intentionally when I come, I won't feel good about myself. I won't be able to feel others.

• 16:59Lewis Howes?

  My feelings when consistently acknowledged allow me to feel others' feelings.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  That's right, because I'm developing that arena. I'm developing that emotional arena. So I don't run from, I'm feeling hurt, I'm angry, I'm disgusted, I'm disappointed, I'm scared. So once, it's just like practicing on the track. You know, you practice, you practice, you practice, you practice, you get good at it. When you stay in that arena and don't run from your feelings and your emotions, you get good at it.

• 17:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  And then you can feel the room.

• 17:31Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  You can feel the other.

• 17:33Lewis Howes?

  My feelings should always be effectively expressed. I'm seeing the pattern here. And my feelings, when effectively expressed, bring fulfillment.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel fulfillment? Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  We almost say we need one more before we get to forgiveness.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Let's see, what else we got anger, we got feelings.

• 17:55Lewis Howes?

  Pain hurts, whether it is physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Okay, isn't that interesting, all those four arenas.

• 18:02Lewis Howes?

  Pain felt is pain recognized, so when you feel your own pain or when someone else feels the pain?

• 18:08Speaker 01

  No, you got to feel your pain.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  When you feel your own pain, then it's recognized.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  It's recognized.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  And when it's recognized, then what?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Then you have to, what is it trying to tell me?

• 18:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, it's teaching me something.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  You got to sit in it and go and communicate with it. It's like if it's physical pain, uh, you know, that's no fun, I've had physical pain. Um, and, you know, is there a way to get, we want to get out of it.

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Is there a way to get out of this thing? Like I had a little skin rash on my elbow. And I was doing my meditation, I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good, it's stinging. And, and so I went to the doctor, right? And he said, oh, you had dermatitis or something, gave me a little pill, I took it, one day, it's gone. So that's physical, sometimes we can't get out of the physical pain, though. What, in terms of spirit, I see that in the arena which I work, none of us get on a spiritual path until we rot into pain.

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, so until we feel some type of pain, hurt, breakdown, something.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Usually people don't go to therapy, they don't, they don't go like, oh God, you know what I mean? When nothing else can help.

• 19:26Lewis Howes?

  Why does it seem to take some type of extreme pain or loss in order for us to start going down that path?

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Isn't that sad?

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  Why can't we just, why can't we just start going down the path when things are good?

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, uh, because there's seemingly a forgetfulness that we come from the unknown. Hmm. And that we're going to go back to the unknown. We seemingly have a forgetfulness that we're still in always relationship to the unknown while we on the planet. We forget that we come from that vast. And go go back to that vastness. But here we get into the limitation and we forget. This is a spiritual journey. This is a journey of the soul. It's not a journey of the dollar, of the fame, of the fortune, of the body, of the lover. The howling is the journey of the soul.

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  And that's the, that's really where I sit. That's really where I live, that, you know, every experience I have, it's, what is this has to do with my soul's journey? So there's pain, often people have soul pain.

• 20:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  You know, they can't come into relationship with who am I on the planet? What is my path? What is, what's my purpose? That's soul pain. That's, that's really hurtful.

• 20:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  There's emotional pain, you know, hurt, sadness, disappointment. And there's mental pain of where often we have these horrible thoughts that we can't get out of. And they torture us, haunting thoughts, worrying. So pain is pain, okay?

• 21:11Lewis Howes?

  And it's not what I want to feel. Pain is not what I want to feel.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Pain is not what we want to feel in any of those arenas. So how do I get out of it is the work.

• 21:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Pain reminds me to remember to be conscious so I can avoid pain in the future.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the, that we're talking about. Why do we?

• 21:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  You know, we often need a reset button. Yeah.

• 21:32Lewis Howes?

  Pain directs me to ask the question, what can I do?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:35Lewis Howes?

  What can I do differently or how can I evolve?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  What decisions do I make differently?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 21:41Lewis Howes?

  Pain inspires me to engage in a conversation to discover its cause.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  Pain forces me to change my way of being in the world so that I can be pain free. I think that's a powerful one for me.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  Forces me to change my way of being in the world so I can be pain free.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like a lot of pain or attachment to pain or suffering is based on our way of being and staying in that way of being and not shifting?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  It's not looking at the pain. You know, some people just get used to the pain.

• 22:12Lewis Howes?

  The mask or something.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  You know, like, for example, I've had periods where I had no money. That's no fun.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Not having any money.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  Sucks.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  But, you know, how do I get here? How do I get out of it? How did I put myself here? Or, uh, relationships, you know? What to do when you're having a pain with a loving intimate relationship? Do I just sit with it and not acknowledge it and not express it? Then I stay there. My relationship won't work.

• 22:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  You know? What do I do with my racing thoughts? You know? How can I stop these haunting thoughts? You know? Physical pain now, and you know, we all one day will die, but physical pain, when symptom comes into the body, you know, like if it's your arm, it's your, you know, diagnoses, like I, you know, deal with diagnosis. The medical doctor gives a diagnosis. And sometimes, uh, they don't even have a physical, a, a, a diagnosis for what's happening in the, in the body. But the symptom is, is, is in the thyroid or the this or the that. And I've had a lot of clients come to me to where they say, the doctor said, there's nothing wrong with me.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  It's emotional. And then we have to look at where is the mental, spiritual, emotional imbalance? That has created the physical imbalance that now is causing the pain.

• 23:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  And usually when it gets to plain of pain, we've been holding that a while.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And we gotta learn how to transform it.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yes, we do.

• 23:54Lewis Howes?

  Into healing.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Lewis Howes?

  Pain is a catalyst for transformation. So hopefully we can transform it sooner than like decades of holding on to it.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:02Lewis Howes?

  When it's too late or it's caused cancer or something.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  Pain moves me to change and expand. And pain is asking for my attention.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:11Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. I'm curious, in the work you've done with married couples and relationships, uh, I'm assuming they're with, they're working with you because there's some type of breakdown or pain that someone is feeling or both.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  I always say, nobody comes to me for a party. I'm not on the party list.

• 24:28Lewis Howes?

  You know what's interesting? I, um,

• 24:31Lewis Howes?

  In my last relationship, before I started, in between the previous relationship and the last relationship, I said to myself, you know what, I wonder what it'd be like to to start therapy within like the first three months of dating, when things are really good.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:47Lewis Howes?

  To just continue to gain clarity on alignment and values and vision. And I was like, this would be amazing. And then I didn't do it.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:54Lewis Howes?

  And it didn't work. It didn't work out.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:56Lewis Howes?

  And now I'm like, I am committed in the next relationship to being in some type of therapeutic process in the beginning.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  If they're willing.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:05Lewis Howes?

  But I think the level of consciousness that I bring into the relationship will attract someone who is, who wants that same level of consciousness. And so I think it'd be looking for someone at that level. It was like, yeah, I'm down for that.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Well, what about, I always think of a date, you know, it has a fit inside of it. What about if you keep dating until you find a fit? If you find a fit, then maybe that's the time to go to therapy.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  So don't do it before you find the fit.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Until you find the fit.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So no need.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  You know, unless you really, you find the fit and you wanna go forward.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  And address that. Gotcha.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  And so we can get the sweetness out of this.

• 25:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I like that. Okay. That's good. But pain is asking for our attention.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  And when we feel pain, we should notice it and not mask it.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:52Lewis Howes?

  I wrote a book called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about the mask that men wear.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:58Lewis Howes?

  To um, to fit in, to project a certain image to the world.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  To hide and numb the pain.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:06Lewis Howes?

  To project that they're stronger, more intelligent, funnier, sexier.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Lacho.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Everything. Uh, as I went through my own journey and will continue to go through my own journey of unmasking whatever that's holding me back from true authentic power, true authentic connection, intimacy, love, mission, um, and shedding of the ego constantly to to be more authentic. So. But I think I experienced. Internal pain and suffering for many, many years because I was unwilling to address it.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  It kept seeking my attention and I was masking it.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:45Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to speaking into the shame.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  Sharing the shame.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:50Lewis Howes?

  The process of healing the shame.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  And therefore it caused more and more stress, more and more anger and resentment in the external world.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:58Lewis Howes?

  More and more need for competition as opposed to collaboration.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:02Lewis Howes?

  And things really started to shift when I was like, wow, when I talk about these things and open up and share the shame, the hurt, the pain.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:11Lewis Howes?

  And I can process them and integrate it in my life into a healing process and I can sleep at night finally. I can, I'm less triggered when someone's whatever.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  With me. And it's been an incredible journey in the last eight and a half years since starting this process.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  That's why I'm a big fan of therapy.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:29Lewis Howes?

  Or any type of therapeutic experience or emotional intelligence exercises to support healing of the past.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  From the 2019 census, uh, they came to understand that psychotherapies that just try to make people feel good or to blame others are not effective in a long-term basis. That they were really, the first time I've seen this in a while, and it was also in the Journal of British Psychology, that psychologies that work on the unconscious to go at where people bring stuff to therapy they don't want to face. They don't want to acknowledge. And to give that to the therapist and work that out goes more, is more effective on the long-term basis.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  You know, I know cognitive behavioral therapy works in that arena. And what it was really sort of, uh, acknowledging the power and the effectiveness of psychodynamic.

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, interesting.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  The unconscious.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  That's what I find is, is what we don't know about ourselves or what we want to keep hidden. That causes the problems.

• 28:46Lewis Howes?

  What do you feel like is that you still don't know about yourself after this many years of practice, work, integration? Research.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  What I don't know about myself.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the thing is, I can't see myself. So that's why I continue to go someone in therapy that can see me. So what I don't know, I don't know.

• 29:09Lewis Howes?

  What was a recent thing that you discovered from someone, a therapy uncovering it for you that you didn't know? Whether it was recently or in the last few years, was what was the most recent thing that you didn't know that now you know?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  I work with a coach and he's very good. I work with a coach and a therapist. And, um, and one thing he continues to highlight in our sessions is that I don't have to work so hard to go get things that whenever I say, I wanna.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  It never comes. And I'm very much an eastern, I work in the eastern way, where things come to me. I work on myself. I try to cleanse my subconscious. I enhance my magnetic field and so my thoughts are here, they go in my magnetic field. And then what I want or desire comes rather than being the western way, go and get it.

• 30:08Lewis Howes?

  Chasing.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  So whenever I go for something, it usually.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't work out.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Doesn't work out. So that is what I've come to really learn from this coach and it is very.

• 30:20Lewis Howes?

  For most of your life, were you kind of in the other aspect where you're kind of going after stuff or chasing or?

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Well, I think I was more active, you know, more active and, uh, yeah. But I mean, it was, it was just an insight that, you know, we think that, you know, and that doesn't mean I don't set goals. I have goals.

• 30:41Lewis Howes?

  But the approach is different.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. That's a good insight.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  It is.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  When did you, when did he discover that within you?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Well, that's sort of a running thread throughout our, our therapy.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. Okay.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  And, uh, one thing that I love that I utilize also in my psychotherapy are metaphors. I love, uh, uh, deepening an individual into their, uh, experience. And to hopefully accurately reflect them by amplifying a metaphor, you know?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  And if you get a good, the correct metaphor, it's so insightful.

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  Very.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  You know, yeah.

• 31:26Lewis Howes?

  It activates something, connects.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  And he gives the metaphors a lot. He says, oh, you know where you think you are in your life right now, you know.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Very cool. Well, we're at forgiving.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Are we?

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  We're at forgiving.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  I think we need one more number. You can't rush forgiveness.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  Is that one of the mantras in here?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  You can't rush, is you forgive.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  Maybe we come to forgiveness at the end of the episode.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  That is it, where we get to forgiveness.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Let's do that at the end of the episode.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  That's the end of the episode.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  And see if we can finish that there.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  So let's see.

• 31:59Lewis Howes?

  You have done a lot of incredible work with, with couples.

• 32:05Lewis Howes?

  Married couples specifically, and I'm curious, from all of your years of experience working with, with people in intimate, committed relationships, what is the, the main or the biggest problem that's causing them to fail that you've seen? Is there a common theme of like the main reason that causes them to fail?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've just come to this realization. I really haven't, actually, I came across something the other day that sort of, wow, I'm not the only one that sees that, that there's masculine and feminine principle. There's male gender, female gender, we have non-binary now, and there's sexual orientation. So those are three different arenas. I've come to understand that the feminine principle must be most operative in a relationship. Because feminine principle is relationship.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Masculine principle is not relationship. Masculine principle is independence.

• 33:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yes. So feminine principle must be operative. What does that mean? Sensitivity. That means nurturing.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  That means feelings. That means, uh, you know, emotional balance. Masculine principle doesn't make a relationship or sustain it.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  It helps by directing masculine principle is directing. Yes, you know, we, honey, we're going to.

• 33:48Lewis Howes?

  Doing this, here's where we're going.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Going here, stability, you know, here's the money. Where we think one of these days to go, you know, here's the money, you know, here's the, you know.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  It's the plan.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Stability.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  It's the plan, here's what we're doing.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  But feminine principle sustains it.

• 34:03Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So when you have a, a ma, a, a, someone who's a dominant masculine energy, whether male or female, but if someone who's a dominant masculine energy and driven and led by that, how do you sustain it if they are in their masculine most of the time and don't tap into the feminine? How do you sustain it?

• 34:23Speaker 01

  The feminine principle has to be very strong. What the deal is, if man or woman, whoever is embodying the masculine principle, that's all they are. And the other one is embodying just feminine principle, that's called divorce.

• 34:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  So if they're, the polarizing opposites are not able to shift.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  They attract. But what happens if the masculine and feminine, they attract, whether it's non-binary gay relationships, whatever, those principles are still there, operating, you know, whether they integrate. And that's the goal. Like, and so what I'm getting at is that both genders, both individuals have to embody both principles.

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  How does each, if they're so focused on the one masculine or feminine energy as their primary, say eighty, ninety percent of the time?

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:20Lewis Howes?

  How do they tap into the emotional range of the other?

• 35:26Speaker 01

  It's a matter of focus. It's a matter of understanding if this principle is actually correct. To understand if you are man and this is all woman, that's divorce. Why? Because all masculine principle cannot sense the feminine principle inside. So they can't understand the feminine principle outside.

• 35:49Lewis Howes?

  I feel like you have to be such an evolved human being to be able to know when to tap into the masculine energy and know when to tap into feminine energy. Right? It's like you have to be so evolved and working on yourself.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  What about conscious?

• 36:02Lewis Howes?

  Conscious.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Conscious.

• 36:03Lewis Howes?

  Conscious to your actions, your thoughts, your beliefs, your decisions. How this all affects you, how it affects others, how it affects the universe.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 36:13Lewis Howes?

  That's hard to do for people, isn't it? Or am I making assumptions?

• 36:18Speaker 01

  This said, life was easy.

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Okay? I mean, that's why we have divorce. Maybe because this is not understood. Maybe because men are, we're raised to be, you know, hard and all man. I call us all man but half human.

• 36:36Lewis Howes?

  All man, half human. What makes whole human?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Masculine, feminine, integrated. Masculine, feminine, integrated. Sometime the woman, if it's a heterosexual relationship like that, the woman is in masculine principle. Then the man has the, or the lady, whoever, in feminine principle.

• 36:55Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna ask you a question that might rub people the wrong way. But do you see relationships and marriages that are healthy, happy, and whole? Where the woman is in the masculine a majority of the time?

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Okay. I never forget in training to become a licensed therapist, we were taught that that is not a dysfunctional relationship. There are some women that sit more in the masculine principle and some men sit more in the feminine principle. That's a match.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  It's a match.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  That's a match. There's some women who want to go out and work and the man stays home and takes care of the children. That's a match.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:31Lewis Howes?

  Do you think women fully respect a man that their partner with if they are not more in their masculine?

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Now, you've brought up a point. Sometimes they do come to therapy.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  Why they're not making money, they just want to stay at home, they don't have a purpose in their life.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yes, I have had troubles like that where the woman is the money maker. She's out in the world. At the same time, she doesn't want to stay home.

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  Right, but she wants the man to stay home too.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  But at the same time, she's feminine gender, female gender. And then when she gets into that, she wants to have that telescope and go, oh, there's my man. Now, when that happens, they come to me in therapy because then I have to, you know, just bring that up for them to digest and cogitate and look at because, you know, she has to shift her cognitive schema because that's not the configuration that's working for them. That's not the cultural narrative.

• 38:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  That's not the cultural narrative.

• 38:38Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So have you seen where women fully respect their male partner? If they aren't as driven or purpose, mission driven and embodying more of those masculine qualities?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  They have come in disrespecting their man, but we have had effective therapy and they're still together. And the woman makes all the money and the man takes care of the children.

• 39:07Lewis Howes?

  Are they happy?

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:10Lewis Howes?

  Are they sexually connected too?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:13Lewis Howes?

  Really? Okay, so it is possible. Okay, this just might be a little harder.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:21Lewis Howes?

  Okay, a little harder, but it's possible.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  You gotta get the right mate for that, the right.

• 39:24Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  It's so interesting. We're in the Aquarian Age these days. And the Aquarian Age is.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Being typified by new age relationships.

• 39:39Lewis Howes?

  Modern relationships.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Like my god children. They both have very committed relationships with their girlfriends. They're not thinking about getting married.

• 39:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, but they're committed.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yes, the mother said, you know, you know, and they got a house together now. They just bought a house, they get their both names on the deed. They have no concept of getting married like. You know, there are couples that have children together. Not married, living together, committed. They're gay marriages. They're polyamorous relationships where it's like your end, your partner can be with whomever they want to and they can be with whoever they want to and they come together. There are all these new age relationships. My generation of parents, there was the heterosexual model marrying and.

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  Everything else is wrong.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Everything else is wrong. Happy or unhappy, they did not divorce. Happy or unhappy, they did not divorce.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  Do you think people should, should stay married if they're suffering inside after, even if they've done the work on therapy and they realize they don't want to be together? Do you think they should try to just make it work still if they're not happy?

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Well, you know, often couples come to me with that. They've been together for years and the children are grown and out of the house. And now they're, they're just looking at each other miserable.

• 41:04Lewis Howes?

  Do we like each other or you don't like each other?

• 41:05Speaker 01

  They don't like each other.

• 41:07Lewis Howes?

  They don't want to be around each other.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know, so it's, it's, it's putting, it's helping them to understand where they are and how they got here and, and what do we do with this? Maybe there's an option they never considered that we can still be friends. And sever this.

• 41:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a conscious uncoupling.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  This legal relationship. Maybe we can still be friends. Maybe we can be thankful for each other or the time we've had together. Maybe I can still come over and cook for you, but I don't wanna be just tied to you anymore.

• 41:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Cause I'm not getting any fun from you anymore. Maybe. And then, of course, you know, say for instance, your mate gets sick, God, that's really a rough one. You know, that you've been together for years and your mate comes with some incurable disease, like MS. You know, some degenerative, degenerative disease. That's really a hard one.

• 42:11Lewis Howes?

  It's tough.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so

• 42:15Speaker 01

  in my arena, there are no absolutes.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Like I say, you know, we are all gonna die, but Freud still lives.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Freud still lives. What's your advice for people who are looking to find a great relationship? It seems like the, the culture right now is kind of a, at least in the younger generation, is a hookup culture, a noncommittal culture, yet they're seeking and wanting connection more than ever, but they're afraid, or they're constantly in comparison mode of other options. What would you say are three questions that you would ask someone to see if you think that it's even possible that they'd be a good fit, a great match for your love? What would be three things you could ask someone to even then observe and see like, okay, whether if they're authentically telling the truth, this could be a good potential match?

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Ah, wow, that's a, that's a hard question. I don't know, I don't. I, I pick up things that often people don't say. And they, you know, I don't even know what those three questions would be. I would really be completely sensitive and observant about what I feel. Like some people say, you know, I'm really here for life. And something happens and they're out of here, that they told me they were not gonna divorce me.

• 43:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  But something happened.

• 43:38Lewis Howes?

  And they're out.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  And they're out. So. I'm not saying they lied to me, I'm just saying, you know, I would just experience and see how committed they are and how

• 43:50Lewis Howes?

  How makes you feel around them?

• 43:51Speaker 01

  How much they stand to have their word and, you know,

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I know couples have come to me where the lady was very spiritual and the man was atheist. You know, you go like, "Do you love God?" And the person says, "No." And they're out of there, right?

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  If they answer that question, the other person wants someone who loves God. I have a couple like that.

• 44:17Lewis Howes?

  They love each other.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  They're together in some kind of way. He got into her spirituality.

• 44:23Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Well, there you go.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, I, we all grow and evolve and shift and change. I just pay attention.

• 44:34Lewis Howes?

  When someone is in a good dating experience, they start dating or they're in a good relationship and it seems like it's, it's going really well. How would you support them in making sure they don't self-sabotage the relationship? Cuz I, I hear this a lot, that people like, find something good and then they get scared. It's too good, or they self-sabotage and kind of like destruct the relationship.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  Or they make some stupid mistake, or they hurt the person. It's like, why do you think people do that? And how can we move beyond that? So these negative thoughts don't ruin something that can be good for us.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Well, my understanding and experience is that one has to love the concept and the idea of a relationship more than you do your ego.

• 45:18Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  That means, if I, I really want a relationship. So, okay, oh God, he comes like stuff. Okay, I gotta run. See, that's my ego. Here's my fear. Oh, it's too good. You know, so you have to love the idea of relationship that you go through the rough times. You have the conversations, you have the communication, you have your your authentic authentic moments. And work through it so we can sustain this relationship rather than I don't like that or I don't like. And you're you're saying your ego, the I, you have to get into the we. You have to love the we more than you do the I. You gotta love the I too.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  It's the I and the I and the we, but you got to really love the we.

• 46:07Lewis Howes?

  There's three parts to the relationship.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Three parts to the relationship.

• 46:10Lewis Howes?

  Maybe maybe four if you have the spiritual connection to the relationship or something, yeah, but the you, the other person, and then the relationship.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I'm sure that individual has been there before, you know, in terms of, you know, they get to this uncomfortable place.

• 46:24Lewis Howes?

  Where it feels good. You mean uncomfortable where like things are good. It makes them feel scared.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Okay, then they got work to do on on appreciation and deserving.

• 46:33Lewis Howes?

  Deserving.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Deserving, do I deserve this? Or maybe trust, you know, some kind of way of some kind of work on yourself of trust of whatever, some kind of fear there.

• 46:45Lewis Howes?

  How do we learn how to feel like we deserve something good for us? Cause I remember growing up feeling like I didn't deserve anything good. I was always kind of in beat up mode, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm too stupid, I'm not, you know, good looking, like I'm not talented, not smart. It was a constant like negative.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  You didn't think all of that.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  All of it, yes, for many years. And so it drove me to try to make myself something uh to be accepted by others, but I still didn't believe in myself. For years I was in that state of mind until I was able to process the healing of the traumas of the past for me.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  Now I'm still a functional human being, but I had this like. resentment and anger and feelings inside. But how do people get to a place of, you know, I deserve to feel loved. I deserve a healthy, conscious relationship. I deserve a, a person who is trustworthy and who's honest and integrity. And, you know, how do we get to that place of feeling like we deserve it and knowing it?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Well, that's deep seated work. I mean, what I experience a lot from individuals, they intellectually know that they may not be feel, you know, that they're not, they have that idea in their psyche that they're not deserving.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  That's intellectual, but I find that a lot of people are frozen on the feeling level. So it's like the sadness around whatever happened in the childhood experience that caused you to shut down and to, you know, identify with undeserving stuff. The feelings around it are frozen. And so often when clients come with that, it's deep. And I have to take them through this trance work that I do and to experiences of the childhood they completely forgot about. And the next thing you know, the tears come, which means they're deep thawing. The ice is breaking.

• 48:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, interesting. What do tears do for us? What is, you know, that process?

• 48:46Speaker 01

  It releases that stress, you know, that, that hurt, that pain. And then it, and relaxation. I mean, rarely clients say they feel lighter after they've cried.

• 48:58Lewis Howes?

  The weight has come off.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've been holding all of that, carrying that ice around, all that frozen energy, all of that defensive stuff from not allowing you to feel that. And then once you feel it, it's a release.

• 49:16Lewis Howes?

  Are we able to get to a place of release without crying? Or does one have to cry in order to feel free?

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's the emotional arena.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  You know, I, as I said, they're all four arenas and.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  The mental, the intellectual, the emotional, what did you say, the spiritual.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Physical.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  Physical, got you. Is emotional also connected to the physical?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  That was another level.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  You brought that in, that's a whole nother level.

• 49:40Lewis Howes?

  Is the emotional also connected to the physical because it's an emotional and physical release that's happening?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yes, we can save ourselves a lot of physical ailments.

• 49:51Lewis Howes?

  Got you.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  You know, it's not, you never blame an individual for anything that, you know, happens because, you know, it's out there, that disease and stuff is out there. But, you know, if for chance we want to look deeper and there's a possibility of going to remission or spontaneous.

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Curing, then, you know, we can deepen into, why me? What is this trying to tell me? You know, and off, you know, we don't just heal into life. Sometimes we heal into death.

• 50:26Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. If we don't heal into life, we're gonna heal into death, hopefully.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Well, healing is the goal.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Like I had a client years ago and she had melanoma cancer and, you know, and her husband told me, after she died, said, Siri really helped me.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  He taught me about God before I died. That was so moving to hear that. I couldn't save her physical life, but maybe she got some soul life. You know, for the next, yeah.

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  And that was fair, that she taught me something and I learned from people I work with. It's not just me sitting here. I learned, it's a collaborative thing. It's, you know, a total, you know, divine being sitting in front of me. I can, I learned from them.

• 51:26Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. What's the biggest lesson you've learned through working with someone?

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Well, I'm always. Thankful for clients, I should say humbled at the fact when clients come to me. They could choose anybody, they could go anywhere, you know. This is America, you know, you got all kind of options, you know. So it's very humbling when individuals choose me and assess that I can help them on their soul's journey. So it deepens me into the experience that really is not me. I couldn't possibly understand sometimes some of the things that flow through me when I sit with an individual.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  And so it sort of deepens me into a spiritual oneness, you know, because I don't let it go to my head, whoever's coming to me. And it's like, wow, now you're sitting in this seat as a helper, therapist, healer, father, spiritual father, brother, guide, psychopomp. And I just surrender to that. And so, I mean, after sessions, like sometimes clients bring very dark stuff, but I just surrender into that and we both just go into that darkness and we feel so much lighter at the end. So it's a very spiritual experience, is what I'm getting at. It's very humbling, it's very humbling.

• 53:00Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha, that's the, that's the lesson right there.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's not me.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  It's not me, yeah. I've done the work, yes, I've done the work, I've had teachers, I bow my head every morning meditation. But yet, it's an experience for me to deepen into the unknown when I sit with a client. Because, I mean, the, what clients bring, it's not in a book. It's not in a book.

• 53:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, right, right.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  It's not in a book what they're bringing, you know, it's like.

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  You learn all this, everything.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  So I have to really sit in a deep sensitivity and a, and a intuition and a knowingness that is beyond me. So it's, I'm, I'm just like thankful, you know, that is the word, thankful and humble when a client comes because it gives me the opportunity to. Get deeper into that oneness and let the unknown flow through me.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  So more becomes known.

• 53:57Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing that if people evolved more of in a relationship? That would support them in feeling happier, healthier and more whole as opposed to disconnected? What's the thing if they did more of something, they learned something, they deepened a practice in something? What would that be?

• 54:14Speaker 01

  I think the goal is self-awareness. You know, just to be aware of your limitations, your fears, your likes, your dislikes.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Your triggers, your deal breakers. Oh God, you know, just to be self-aware. What I like, what I don't like, where's my passions?

• 54:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  And then to get into the, you have to have the self-love.

• 54:44Lewis Howes?

  What happens if we don't have self-love in a relationship or we love someone else?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's, you know, it can get imbalanced. Either you love them and it's just giving, you get them, you know, for a person who's really not sitting in self-love. And you know, that pop term codependence, it's not a psychological, codependence. Then I'm just loving on you, but I don't really know how to receive.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  What happens when someone does that?

• 55:11Speaker 01

  When what, they just?

• 55:12Lewis Howes?

  They love on someone else, but they don't know how to receive or they don't know how to love themselves. What happens?

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Oh, they just maybe missed out completely on the possibilities of having a, of becoming whole. They're not completely whole. You know, so I mean, people have relationships where often we're not whole. And they last.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just like that, I've heard one where the, you know, the manager's giving, giving, giving to the woman and doesn't know what he's feeling or, you know, able to express it. And yeah, so, yeah, I mean, we make it in life not being perfect.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  Of course. Yeah, of course.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  And get into relationships, not being perfect.

• 56:05Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  We all just do the best we can.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  You know, and then I think the third is self-expression, you know? To be able to express yourself.

• 56:19Lewis Howes?

  Why do people feel like they can't express themselves in an intimate relationship? Is it because they've been made wrong for how they feel? They're not listened to or heard properly? They're judged or not accepted? What's the main cause of why we in general don't express? Or feel like we don't have the ability to express?

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Well, obviously, the self-love is not there. See, we miss the self-love.

• 56:40Lewis Howes?

  If we don't love ourselves, we don't express it?

• 56:42Speaker 01

  It's difficult.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  Why would we do that?

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Because you don't have permission to be.

• 56:48Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  You know, love is, you know, as, you know, we're taught, God is love. So, all of me is God. I'm not the total God. But if I'm at war with myself, I'm in love. And then I can just be the total me.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  What if someone doesn't accept who you are?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  That happens often.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Not my laws.

• 57:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Experience, not my laws.

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Is it, what if someone you're in a relationship with for long term stops accepting you? Is there a way to still make it work? Or does the other partner need to fully accept who they are? In order for it to be kind of a healthy relationship?

• 57:33Speaker 01

  You know, relationships just take work. That's why I say you have to love the idea of the relationship more than you do your ego.

• 57:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Because relationships are not easy. People, you know, come in relationships, and they're at twenties, and you're there for twenty years. Well, that's a different person.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  You're different people.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Who am I now? You know? Is the sex just as good? You know, okay, it's, you know? I thought I liked your cooking. I'm a bit tired of it now, you know? I don't want to eat and eat anymore. I'm a vegetarian. So, I mean, it's constantly changing and evolving. So if you really don't have the love of the relationship, it's difficult. Because things are always coming up. You're changing, they're changing, the universe is changing. You know? Wow.

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  Should relationships be hard? Or is there a way that they can be more flowing? Where it doesn't have to feel like this hard, exhausting, challenging thing? Like, is it supposed to be that way? Or can it be like, wow, you know what? We are aligning. And sure, there's challenges. But because we're aligned, we're able to work through them with more ease and effortlessness and flow. Because we're consciously doing that. Is that a possibility? Or is it all hard work?

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Well, I've come to understand you just attract yourself. And so the more work you've done on yourself.

• 59:06Lewis Howes?

  You attract someone else who's done that.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And usually what you don't like in the other person is usually what you haven't owned within yourself.

• 59:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. The mirror of life.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  And it's usually, we call it the split off part of self. It's the unconscious part of you. Like, for example, you don't like to get angry.

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  So then you attract an angry Nate. One who can collude with you and can take your anger and they have no trouble.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  All the time. And you sit here. Yeah. Always calm. And, you know, connected. So, you know, the more you work on yourself, like, of course, the healing there would be for the person to take their ability to effectively express anger. And then the other person won't have to get angry all the time. And then you have to get upset with them because they're always angry. So it's really accepting yourself. And I think you can accept another, you know?

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  You can, you can accept someone else when you fully accept yourself. Everything about you, the good, the ugly.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Ah, especially the bad and the ugly. It's like, you know, baby, I'm working on this.

• 1:00:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm, I'm not quite.

• 1:00:23Lewis Howes?

  Where I want to be.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Yet. But, you know, I have trouble.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  You know, that's self-expression. That's also a self-awareness. There's also a love that, I'm not saying, you know, I got this to work on. Can you just, you know, be aware that this is unevolved?

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  How does, how do we get to a place where we fully accept? All of us.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47Lewis Howes?

  How do we, how do we get to a place, you know what, I don't like this, this and this about me, but I accept myself. How do we do, how do we learn to do that?

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Well, that's why I say again, we can't see ourselves. It's like, and if you don't work on yourself, you don't grow, you don't change. Like if you don't go to the gym and lift up some weights and stuff, your muscles don't change. Matter of fact, they get flabby.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  They die.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Yes, and so if you do not have some way of working on yourself, whether it's with a coach or a therapist or a astrologer.

• 1:01:21Lewis Howes?

  Mentor or something.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Mentor or the I Ching or whatever, you know, throwing the shells or going to the Arishas or going, you don't change. You don't. You will change, you'll get older and all that kind of stuff. But that deep seated stuff that you have to resolve and look at, it'll just be there until you die.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  Knowing that we're all imperfect human beings on our own journey, what would be the prescription you would give to couples getting into a relationship before marriage? They're deciding they want to get married and now, okay, it's gonna happen soon. Six months, a year, two months, it's happening. What would you prescribe them to try to set them up for the best possible success of happiness and joy and growth and contribution in their relationship?

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  I think that what I hear is that you just have to relax and see what comes to you.

• 1:02:18Lewis Howes?

  Mmm, yup.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  And be able to consciously deal with whatever comes to you. I think the word is consciously, you know, that, and you know, often that relationships that are challenging at first are really opportunities for growth.

• 1:02:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  And so not to run immediately.

• 1:02:44Lewis Howes?

  Not to leave immediately.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, leave immediately.

• 1:02:46Lewis Howes?

  Maybe you do leave at some point.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Maybe you do.

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  After.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Maybe you do, you know, you gotta pay attention and see if this is something that we can, like I, I think there's resentment, you don't want to hold resentment.

• 1:02:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  And there's sacrifice. And so sacrifice is when you can really like, oh, I wanna, let's have sushi tonight. Oh baby, I don't wanna have sushi. I wanna have Italian tonight. Okay, I can have Italian, which you really sacrifice. And you enjoy the Italian food. Now resentment would be, okay, I'll go have Italian with you and you sit there and you're miserable the whole time.

• 1:03:28Lewis Howes?

  Can't do that.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  And then of course, there's compromise. So you got those three. That's, I think, compromise, and I think also in, in front of compromise, somewhere in here is giving in.

• 1:03:45Lewis Howes?

  You don't wanna do that?

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Giving in.

• 1:03:49Lewis Howes?

  That doesn't sound healthy to me.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  I think giving in is, is sacrifice. Giving up is maybe resentment.

• 1:03:56Lewis Howes?

  Okay, giving in is sacrifice.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Giving up is resentment.

• 1:04:03Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  And compromise is the possible solution. You know, what can you compromise on? What can you sacrifice on? What, you know, is just...

• 1:04:16Lewis Howes?

  Compromise is like the win-win solution, right? It's like, okay, where do we both feel?

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Both the sacrifice and a little bit.

• 1:04:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we feel, we feel okay about them.

• 1:04:26Lewis Howes?

  Okay, I like that. So that'd be your prescription, going in, to be aware of these things, to practice.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  But you have to work on yourself. I think that's the thing, yeah. That you gotta work on yourself, you know, become aware of your misgivings, your, your, your, your fears, your doubts, your insecurities, your assets, you know, your goals, your dreams. You know, just become as self-aware as you can.

• 1:04:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  So you can even say, I'm not relationship material. Some people are not relationship material.

• 1:05:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  They're self-aware.

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Maybe you are...

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  You know, a gentleman that can date and you know, and you just don't know how to commit and you're afraid of commitment and just realize that, that you cannot be just with one woman.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  That's hard for some people, right, to, to accept it, I guess, and.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  You know, I always tell my women, you know, look at your dog, you know, is it a wild one?

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Some women marry coyotes.

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  You can't tame those darn things.

• 1:05:37Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Might take generations to tame them.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Make sure you got a house dog.

• 1:05:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  That wants to be in the house.

• 1:05:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is able to.

• 1:05:49Lewis Howes?

  Not always out on the hunt.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Shift, yeah, you know, so you gotta be aware.

• 1:05:53Lewis Howes?

  Not in the middle of the night, creeping around the dark corners.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:59Lewis Howes?

  It's awareness, yeah. It seems like sometimes people try to, try to put someone in the, the box of they're in a committed relationship type of person when they're not. They try to force it. They try to see, well, maybe potentially they could be, even when they're telling me not.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:15Lewis Howes?

  And they, they kind of lean into it and then they hurt themselves or they get disappointed, right?

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  See who the other person is.

• 1:06:21Lewis Howes?

  What's the one question you wish more people would ask you about relationships that they don't ask you?

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  So interesting, I mean, you're focusing on relationships today, you know, as an LMFT, that is the scope of our practice, is relationships, yeah. Uh, the one question they would ask about relationships?

• 1:06:38Lewis Howes?

  What's the one question you wish more people asked you about relationships that they don't ask?

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Well, where is your grit? Do you have the grit to really do the work?

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  To go through the rough spots in this relationship?

• 1:06:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  You know, ask yourself.

• 1:06:55Lewis Howes?

  Do I have the grit to go through? If this happens, can I handle it? If that happened, when this happens?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Where's your level of commitment? What are your deal breakers? What's really gonna trigger you if your partner does this? That may trigger your grit and commitment to where you wanna flee.

• 1:07:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  As an LMFT, I've never heard anybody else say this, but I just think about, you know, relationships and.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  You know, I can think of high school friends, like college friends.

• 1:07:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes, they end.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  They end.

• 1:07:32Lewis Howes?

  They don't have to be forever.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  They don't have to be forever. And so I see that often with, you know, couples that have been together for, and I'm just so respectful of people that can stay together until death do them part.

• 1:07:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  That is the

• 1:07:47Lewis Howes?

  The statement.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  The vow.

• 1:07:49Lewis Howes?

  The vow. But it's very rare.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it doesn't always work.

• 1:07:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:07:57Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. I think we, I think we should change the narrative around a relationship failing or not working out.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:04Lewis Howes?

  I feel like, I remember I was talking to Michael Beckwith about this.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:08Lewis Howes?

  Cause he was married and divorced.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:10Lewis Howes?

  I said, how do you feel about it? He said, I feel fine because not all relationships are supposed to last forever.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:15Lewis Howes?

  I think he was together for, married for seven years or seven or nine years. And he's like, we had our season that served its purpose. We consciously moved beyond that season.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:26Lewis Howes?

  And now this is where we're at.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:28Lewis Howes?

  And I thought he had a great approach to it. And I was like, you know, we should celebrate what the relationship did for each person.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:08:36Lewis Howes?

  To help them grow together individually, to help inspire people or help others.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:08:41Lewis Howes?

  And whatever the way the relationship did. And not, yes, there's a mourning and a grieving process that's natural of any loss or any transition.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:51Lewis Howes?

  But I think there should also be a celebration of, okay, I can still look back at this as something that gave me an incredible gift.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:08:59Lewis Howes?

  And hopefully I was able to contribute in this relationship in a beautiful way also, right?

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:09:04Lewis Howes?

  Not of like, oh, my life is over. This didn't work out. I don't know. What are your thoughts on, on that?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  I think that's absolutely correct, what you just said, you know? And I guess the word is truth. We haven't thrown that into our interview here, to, to live truthfully. You know, it's like, you may even keep the marriage.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  But maybe we live on different floors. Cause we got kids and we're gonna have a new age relationship. But at least be able to effectively, again, that word. Speak your truth of where are we, baby? What are we doing right now? How does this feel to you? How do we keep this going? Do we wanna keep this going? If we do, what does it look like?

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:09:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. So just, I think communication is very integral, but truth. People often don't speak that truth.

• 1:10:05Lewis Howes?

  Why? Is it because we're afraid of what, not being received?

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  I think it's scary.

• 1:10:09Lewis Howes?

  When I feel like I can be a hundred percent authentic to my truth.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:15Lewis Howes?

  And it's not judged.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Lewis Howes?

  That's when you feel safe. That's when I feel safe. That's why I feel more connected, more sense of love. And sometimes in the, in previous relationships, when I've shared my truths or my insecurities and my fears, it hasn't been received.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:30Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, ah, this doesn't feel good.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  You've gotta be willing to receive someone else's.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:10:34Lewis Howes?

  As much as you want to receive yours.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  Maybe you don't like what you're hearing.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:10:38Lewis Howes?

  But you gotta learn to receive it and accept at some point.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  And if they can't, then that's information for you.

• 1:10:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. This has been really inspiring in many ways. One from the, the first half of the interview of us.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:51Lewis Howes?

  Addressing certain things that we, what you wanna do to address and, and, and me being hopefully receptive.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  That's gonna show that, I mean, you dealt with the very.

• 1:11:00Lewis Howes?

  Give me feedback as a therapist. How was I, was I able to, did I handle it appropriately? Did I, uh, you know, was I defensive? Was I?

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  You weren't defensive.

• 1:11:10Lewis Howes?

  Resentful and.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  No, you weren't resentful. You, we wouldn't have gotten here.

• 1:11:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  If you.

• 1:11:15Lewis Howes?

  It'd be like peace.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  You, we wouldn't be here if you hadn't handled that so effectively.

• 1:11:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 1:11:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  And so I'm very respectful of you.

• 1:11:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Okay, that you were, you know, able to, you know, and, and, you know, I was able to effectively express it. So, you know, we brought us closer together. And I think, you know, I had to walk my talk. You know, I couldn't be, you know, eh, and then doing something that's not.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And my therapist has been telling me, I went through a breakup a couple of months ago. I ended the relationship after five months of couples, intensive couples therapy where we both love each other and care about each other deeply, but I realized that the values and the vision and some other things weren't aligned. And we weren't able to come to agreeance on so many things. It was just causing a lot of friction. And, and my therapist was like, you know, the, the universe is gonna bring you many tests. Yes. To see if you're integrating the lessons you've learned in the previous five months of our coaching and therapy sessions. And she's been right. Every day there's something that's testing me to be like, okay,

• 1:12:30Lewis Howes?

  how am I gonna process and handle this situation? Yeah, yeah. You know, 10 years ago, I probably had been very defensive. Okay, okay. What do you mean, you don't understand me? Like, what do you mean, I didn't try to do this, what are you talking about? You know, it's like, as opposed to, okay, I was really just like, tell me more. Yeah, you were. Like, is there anything else you wanna share? Cause I don't want to be anything unsaid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Harboring in there and then you not being your authentic self. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, read the paragraph on forgiveness. Okay. Forgiving is not easy. Okay. We are human and at times, for whatever reason, we feel we have been slighted. Okay. Allow us to acknowledge our feelings and process what transpired. Whatever the case may be, it is best to completely let go of resentment

• 1:13:14Lewis Howes?

  for that will harm us in the future. Yes. Resentment allowed to fester can later transform into physical unwellness, some type of sickness. Rather than judge the individual who has violated our boundaries or our sense of good, give them to the divine, capital D. In giving them to the divine, we become completely resolved as the spiritual law of karma becomes operative in the other's life. Resentment must go for the other as we perhaps must also forgive ourselves. Okay. That's a nice statement. Okay, okay. Powerful statements. Uh, number one, forgiving another challenges my ego but uplifts my spirit. Say that again.

• 1:13:58Lewis Howes?

  It challenges my ego, but it uplifts my spirit.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Okay, I was really experiencing that.

• 1:14:03Lewis Howes?

  Your ego is being challenged.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  It was being challenged.

• 1:14:06Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Forgiving I can do, but I forget only when my safety is not at risk.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:14Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving another activates the process of transforming my hurts.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:14:20Lewis Howes?

  What happens if we don't forgive? Does the hurt stay inside?

• 1:14:25Lewis Howes?

  As you said, forgiving activates the process of transforming.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  So what it is, is like, I mean, something happened that you feel transgressed again.

• 1:14:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  So all of that is in here. It's a morass of feelings. Hurt, anger, resentment, disgust at yourself. Fear of not saying your truth.

• 1:14:48Lewis Howes?

  Boundaries crossed.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  All of that is in here. And so if I did forgive, that is all there.

• 1:14:55Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving myself or another is essential, otherwise I'm mentally and emotionally stagnant. Gosh. So forgiveness is really like the ultimate.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:05Lewis Howes?

  To freedom, to peace, to health.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  It takes time.

• 1:15:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  It takes time. Yeah.

• 1:15:10Lewis Howes?

  For some, you may be able to momentarily forgive.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you step on my foot. Oh. I'm sorry. Oh, okay.

• 1:15:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. But I guess it depends on the emotional trigger that you have from the past.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  The emotional trigger and how severe the transgression was.

• 1:15:26Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Exactly. So it's all personal. It's all personal stuff. And someone might go through something and not be hurt by it, but another person who's got that, I guess, transgression would feel more hurt by that situation, depending.

• 1:15:43Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving myself or others reminds me that someone acted unconsciously.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  I did say that to you.

• 1:15:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, absolutely. Forgiving involves looking at things from a broader perspective. Forgiving another triggers my awareness that all do not think or act like me. Forgiving myself or another can take time.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:05Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving another catapults me into a realm of high spirituality. I believe that for sure because if we're not forgiving, then we're in our ego, right?

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:14Lewis Howes?

  We're like staying in that.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're staying. We're not growing. Yeah.

• 1:16:18Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving Another says, "Release and let go into love."

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Oh, well.

• 1:16:23Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:25Lewis Howes?

  Forgiving Another frees me to love once again.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Okay. Damn.

• 1:16:32Lewis Howes?

  You're like, "Did I write this?"

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  I honestly do have that experience, like, you know, like my dissertation is 365 pages. And I reread it and I go like, I mean, it just feels like, I said, I mean, did I really write it? You know what I mean? And I know I did, but, and that's why I'm writing, I'm starting my second book. But it's really, you know, a surrender.

• 1:17:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  It's really surrendering to something.

• 1:17:04Lewis Howes?

  A channel.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Yes, that you wanna just put truth and reality and information that's out there that's going to help and heal and elevate.

• 1:17:15Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Well, you're doing, you're doing that with this book, The Pocket Guru, which is really inspiring. It's guidance for, and I read a lot of that stuff in here, it's really that you, that you heard me read, um, who's watching. Guidance for, Guidance and Mantras for Spiritual Awakening and Emotional Wisdom. And I think that's what we all need more of, is emotional wisdom. With all the different challenges that come up in relationships, in politics, in business or career, in health. It's the emotional wisdom that we bring to pain, stress, anxiety, triggers, events in the world. How can we bring the emotional wisdom to, so we don't stay stuck in the pain? So it doesn't stay in us.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  And they honored me. They, I was, it won the Walden Award in Mind Body Healing this year.

• 1:18:05Lewis Howes?

  Congratulations.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:07Lewis Howes?

  That's very exciting. I want people to get the book, The Pocket Guru, you can check it out. I have a couple of final questions for you.

• 1:18:16Lewis Howes?

  This is called the three truths question.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:18:18Lewis Howes?

  That I ask everyone towards the end of the interview.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Oh god.

• 1:18:20Lewis Howes?

  So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical situation that it's your very last day on earth.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:18:26Lewis Howes?

  Many years away. You live as long as you want to live.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:29Lewis Howes?

  And you accomplish all the dreams and goals and peace that you want to create.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:33Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written and audio and video work with you. So the book goes to the next place, or it's no longer available.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:44Lewis Howes?

  But you get to leave behind three lessons that you would share with the world from all the things that you've learned.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:49Lewis Howes?

  I call it the three truths.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:51Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are those three truths that you would share with the world?

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  Live your life.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Because if you don't, who will?

• 1:19:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  Seek your truth.

• 1:19:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Otherwise, you will die a lie.

• 1:19:07Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay. I love that one.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Love yourself, and then you will give us the ability, give yourself the ability to deepen into love for the other.

• 1:19:19Lewis Howes?

  Those are three powerful truths. Very powerful. Live your life.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Live your life, otherwise.

• 1:19:24Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  Who will?

• 1:19:26Lewis Howes?

  Who will. Speak your truth, or die a lie. I've never heard it said that way.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  I've never said it.

• 1:19:34Lewis Howes?

  See, once you forgive, you just tap into the spiritual awakening and things flow through you.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Read it again.

• 1:19:41Lewis Howes?

  Live your life, otherwise who will? Speak your truth, or die a lie. And then love yourself.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  So you can deepen into the love of the other.

• 1:19:51Lewis Howes?

  I love this. Those are powerful three truths.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Lewis Howes?

  I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Siri, for showing up here today, the way that you did by expressing your full range of emotions.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:05Lewis Howes?

  In an effective manner, in a conscious manner, by shifting and allowing me to receive it. And shifting so that we can have an effective conversation.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:16Lewis Howes?

  And help people with these lessons that you've learned and help people with the tools that you have.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Lewis Howes?

  And I acknowledge you for giving me the opportunity to continue to learn and grow and realize that I'm an imperfect human and.

• 1:20:31Lewis Howes?

  And accepting my own mistakes and, and all the stuff that I have.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  I don't want to put imperfect on you or mistakes on you.

• 1:20:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  I think you were, I mean, we're all doing the best we can. And I think you just had, you were just being you.

• 1:20:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  You know, and, and then I just made some, brought your attention to some things.

• 1:20:52Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  And so you expanded and you grew. I think we both did.

• 1:20:57Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  I think it was a beautiful model we had today.

• 1:21:00Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  A beautiful model.

• 1:21:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  In real, real time.

• 1:21:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there was a breakdown and we communicated effectively, I think. Hopefully I was an active listener and compassionate and understanding. And I felt like you weren't attacking me aggressively.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 1:21:18Lewis Howes?

  And throwing everything at me in a certain way that I wouldn't be able to receive it.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Oh, would I have been horrible?

• 1:21:24Lewis Howes?

  Cause then, what are we doing? We're just upset at each other and probably wouldn't be able to get it very so.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  I have a speaking tour coming up.

• 1:21:31Lewis Howes?

  What's that?

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  I have a speaking tour that's gonna begin in September. We already have booked in Saratoga, New York, and Buffalo, New York. And we have other cities that are in negotiations, so.

• 1:21:43Lewis Howes?

  Where can people go to learn more about you, the tour, the book, social media? Where can they go?

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  We're [email protected].

• 1:21:55Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  S I R I S A T N A M.

• 1:21:59Lewis Howes?

  sirisatnam.com?

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  No, [email protected].

• 1:22:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  And social media is DrSiriNow Instagram.

• 1:22:08Lewis Howes?

  DrSiriNow Instagram, is that your most active platform? Okay, so make sure everyone go follow DrSiri on Instagram. Send him a, a, a direct message and let him know what you enjoyed most from this conversation.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, the website is sirisatnam.com.

• 1:22:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes, and your email is [email protected], gotcha. So you can learn more about the tour, the books, get a couple for your friends.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Mentorship program, I have a mentorship program.

• 1:22:32Lewis Howes?

  Mentorship program and everything else over there. This has been beautiful. My final, my final question for you.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh God, another one.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  What is your definition of greatness? Greatness. Well, I think that's to live in harmony with yourself. I think we all are great because we are created by that unseen greatness. Just think of, what is it that got the sun, you know, sitting in the sky, the seasons coming to go? And woman opens up to give birth to life and she turns her blood into milk to nurture us.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  And what is, that is nothing but the great divinity and we come from that and we are that. But we forget that.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  And so to live in that is to be great. Absolutely. Dr. Siri, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you very much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:23:44Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to spread the message of greatness to a few friends or post it over on social media as well as click the subscribe button. If this is your first time here and leave a review with what part of this episode you enjoyed the most. Feel free to share your thoughts, your feedback and your inspiration from this episode on Apple Podcast review section. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are there. And again, I hope you enjoyed the first part of this episode where we really navigated how to handle a breakdown and how both of us handled it in our own way. Hope that taught you some things, just witnessing that as well. And I love your thoughts on that process that we had together. And I'd love to leave you with this quote from Oprah who said, "True forgiveness is when you can say thank you for that experience."

• 1:24:27Lewis Howes?

  Again, I'm grateful for you for showing up today in your greatest version of yourself, for constantly being a learner, for constantly trying to improve yourself and by implementing the things you learn every day into your life and making the impact that you can do on the people around you as well. You have a beautiful gift, my friend, and I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. I'm so grateful for you and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.