#295 - Nuclear War on Mars, Time Traveling Nazis & The Techno Apocalypse | Jason Jorjani

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Jason Jorjani is a philosopher & author who received his BA , MA & PhD at State University of New York at Stony Brook. In his book, "Satanaeon", Jorjani argues we are about to come up against the computational limit of this system, because information is interchangeable with mass and energy, and we are about to reach a critical mass of information that will catastrophically exert the same kinds of gravitational forces on Earth that “dark matter” does on galaxies. SPONSORS https://hims.com/danny - Start your FREE online visit today. https://shopmando.com - Use code DANNY for $5 off your starter pack. https://bit.ly/viiadannyjones - Use code DANNY for 15% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS https://x.com/jason_jorjani Jason's new book: https://a.co/d/3vUbegc FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Satana: the eon of Satan 06:32 - The Collins Elite 10:17 - Disclosure of the devil 14:09 - Steven Greer 17:55 - Ancient megalithic structures on the moon 33:27 - Evidence the moon is hollow 43:33 - Thermonuclear war on Mars 53:39 - Evidence the moon was man-made 57:52 - What Apollo 11 astronauts REALLY saw on the moon 01:13:49 - Stored data is changing the earth's gravity 01:28:49 - Information = dark matter 01:37:24 - The pending information cataclysm 01:47:37 - Morphic resonance & aliens 01:55:42 - The universe is a hologram 02:07:15 - Telepathy & psionic powers 02:18:45 - Stoned ape theory & DMT 02:27:22 - Advanced human race engineering our society 02:37:33 - How Nazis created the U. S. deep state 02:50:59 - 1940s development of flying saucers 02:56:56 - How America funded Nazi Germany 03:04:51 - Atlantis in Antarctica 03:18:35 - What happened to Hitler after WW2 03:23:57 - Whitley Strieber's childhood trauma Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Danny Jones?

  All right, Jason Giorgiani, thank you for coming, man. Good to see you, brother.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  It's a pleasure to see you again, Dan.

• 0:10Danny Jones?

  Our last podcast was bananas.

• 0:15Danny Jones?

  We covered all kinds of crazy shit. What have you been up to, bro?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Writing.

• 0:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah?

• 0:20Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, one of the few silver linings to being banned from academia is it leaves you all your time to do writing.

• 0:26Danny Jones?

  That's right. That's the convenience of being a Nazi Mossad agent.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Go figure.

• 0:32Danny Jones?

  As you're famously accused of.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, being defamed in both of those ways simultaneously, right? Never had any dealings with Nazis, as far as I'm aware. Did meet with probably four different Mossad agents, but I never accepted their offer for shekels, so... I'm a free agent.

• 0:51Danny Jones?

  So what kind of stuff have you been writing?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Well, my latest book is Satanian, which has a lot on the simulation theory in it that we'll get into. And then the latest one, the cover is up there in the background. It's called Metapolemos, which is a Greek word, ancient Greek word, meaning super struggle, or meta-war. And/or uberkampf in German, Metapolemos. And that one is an overview of my entire philosophical project, divided into the domains of ontology, epistemology, ethics, aesthetics, and politics. So it summarizes my whole philosophical project in terms of the different domains of philosophy.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  And I wrote it to be a kind of companion volume to Philosophy of the Future, which I brought you last time.

• 1:44Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  This one is an overview of my work in terms of the original concepts that I've developed, Philosophy of the Future was. And this one, Metapolemos, is in terms of the different domains of philosophical thought. So they're kind of good companion volumes for one another. And they're either a really good introduction to my work as a whole, or a kind of executive summary.

• 2:06Danny Jones?

  What is the general idea of Satanian?

• 2:12Speaker 01

  The general idea of Satanian, well, the term means the aeon of Satan.

• 2:17Danny Jones?

  The aeon of Satan.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Or the aeon of Satana. And so I'm playing with this term Satana. It's the name of a...

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I guess you could call her a goddess, really she's more a Titaness. You know, there was this distinction between the gods and the Titans, which you see in Greek culture, you see it in ancient Hindu culture as well, with the devas and the ashuras. Satana is a Titaness, who was conceived of as the mother of the Gorgons, you know Medusa? So these, uh,

• 2:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I just read your article.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  ferocious, snake-haired, feminine deities. They were called-

• 2:58Danny Jones?

  They come from Medea, right?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Well, no, Medea was the chief priestess of them.

• 3:03Danny Jones?

  Right, they were like her minions.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  She was a witch who basically, did the most to institutionalize and organize the cult of these Gorgons. And the chief Gorgon, the kind of mother of the coven of Gorgons, is Satana. This was a cult that existed in the Caucasus, going back to probably at least 1,000 B.C. And what's interesting about, first of all, the name originally, Satana, in old Iranian language, it means "mother of a hundred", because she was believed to be the initiatrix of heroes. She would take these champions, under the Caspian Sea, into what was believed to be an underwater city.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  And she would train them and initiate them, and confer a broadsword on them, and also potentially allow them to look into this grail that she was the keeper of. So, much, much later, like 1,500 years, 1,800 years later, this mythos would eventually make its way into Europe, together with the migration of the Scythian and Sarmatian people, and it would become what's known as the Arthurian mythos in Europe, where this figure Satana becomes the lady of the lake, and then, you know, Arthur, King Arthur, becomes the archetypal hero, who is initiated by this grail mistress, and is given the broadsword and so forth. So the mythos of Satana is the most primordial form

• 4:33Speaker 01

  of what later becomes the Arthurian grail mysticism of Europe, of Gothic Europe.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  And Celtic Europe. And it's brought there by these Caucasian Iranian people, these northern Iranian people, called the Scythians and Sarmatians. The Greeks also called the Sarmatians Amazons. Their whole legends about warrior women come from this culture because they had female warriors. In fact, I mean, they were arguably a matriarchal culture with female rulers and female warriors. A very unusual culture because they also, I think, were the first people to invent iron warfare implements and chainmail armor. In any case, they worshiped this figure, Satana.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  And round about, I think, 700, 800 B.C., they mass invaded the Middle East. And it's said they went all the way up to Egypt. So I've made an argument in some of my work that the he- what we believe is the Hebrew term Satan, Ha-Satan, the adversary, probably comes from this Satana in origin. Because the serpent symbolism associated with Satan, from the Book of Genesis onward

• 5:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  In various aesthetic representations, has a distinctly female connotation. Like, the serpent in Eden was depicted in female form, often, throughout the history of art. And the serpents are, of course, associated with the Gorgons.

• 6:07Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  They have serpents in their hair, right? Which is really a, it's a reference to the fact that viper venom was used

• 6:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  In this cult.

• 6:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the title comes from that, okay? It's a play on the cult of Satana. But the way I use this from the opening chapter onward is in terms of the contemporary debate over whether the UFO phenomenon is demonic. So you have these Collins elite people

• 6:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Who think that, you know, either angels or more probably demons are what's behind

• 6:40Danny Jones?

  What do you call them, Collins elite?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  The Collins elite. Yeah, the Collins elite. I think we got into this briefly the last time I was here.

• 6:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  But some people think that the Collins elite was an unofficial inter-agency organization with representation from the CIA, the Air Force, and various other military intelligence organizations.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  That was formed, they think, some people argue, like Nick Redfern, I think, in his book, uh, on, what was that book called?

• 7:08Danny Jones?

  Is Tucker Carlson a part of the Collins Elite?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  You say that, you say that, you know, probably more than half jokingly. No, I don't think Tucker's part of the Collins Elite, but I think that they've gotten to his head. I think that these are the people who put this in Tucker Carlson's head, and he's been talking to too many of these folks.

• 7:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Um, so anyway, some people think they were formed in 1947 to basically, between 45 and 47, to spy on Jack Parsons and investigate what Jack Parsons, the occultist and rocket scientist, was doing, uh, you know, with L. Ron Hubbard and others in the middle of the western desert, right? I have argued, uh-

• 7:49Danny Jones?

  They had a spot in Florida, they were working on some stuff, didn't they?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  They were all over the place.

• 7:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Matter of fact, I think it was in Florida that Hubbard, you know, the founder of Scientology-

• 7:58Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  -stole, uh, Parsons' yacht and his girlfriend.

• 8:03Danny Jones?

  What?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  I think that was off the coast of Florida that he did that. Yeah, they had a bad falling out-

• 8:07Danny Jones?

  I told you, right, that the flag building for Scientology, their primary headquarters, where he parked his yacht, is like 20 minutes from here.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  I think that makes sense, yeah.

• 8:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think he used this as his launching point for his various off-the-radar activities in the oceans of the world later in his life, right?

• 8:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  So, anyway, but let's not go into Hubbardland.

• 8:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's not.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  So, some people think it was formed in 47 to investigate Parsons and so forth, but I actually argue in Satanian that the Collins Elite probably goes back to the 1896, 1897 airship mystery.

• 8:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Where there was this, um, patent attorney who claimed to represent the inventors of the mystery airships.

• 8:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  And this guy's name was Collins. And, look, I don't want to be one of these guys who says the same thing every time, and I think we did discuss this last time, but very long story short, in a nutshell, this patent attorney, George Collins, gave an extensive testimony to the San Francisco Chronicle, and I think it was 1897,

• 9:12Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  About, you know, what's, how, what these airships were, how they were going to be publicly declared, you know, the company was going to publicly declare itself on the stock exchange and, and, you know, come forth with this technology and so, and all this. And then, like, three days later, the San Francisco Chronicle got back to him- And wanted to have another conversation with him, at which point he said, I don't remember saying any of that stuff to you. And it turned out that he gave this entire testimony in a trance state. So this George Collins was possessed and delivered the story. And then it turned out that the supposed airship inventor was some dentist who invented dental bridges, who had dreamed of building airships from his childhood.

• 9:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  So this paranormal angle starts to emerge in the story where you wonder, you know, are these airships psychic projections of some kind? Are people's perceptions being manipulated? And I think from that time onward is when the feds got involved and started to develop theories about what kind of diabolical intelligence might actually be behind this phenomenon.

• 10:17Danny Jones?

  This reminds me, Steve, can you pull up my Twitter page real quick? I want to show you this photo I found of Jacques Vallée last night. I think it's very appropriate. Just go to X and just go to my account page. There's a whole article about it, too.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  You know, I knew Jacques Vallée at one point.

• 10:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's not it. That's it right there. That's what you were saying last time. Scroll down. Scroll down, right there. Up, right, click that photo. Look at that. Jacques Vallée with Aleister Crowley.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. No, that's Anton LaVey.

• 10:50Danny Jones?

  That's what I meant, that's what I meant. I'm sorry.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Aleister Crowley was long dead.

• 10:53Danny Jones?

  Jacques Vallée and Anton LaVey.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. First of all, they both lived in San Francisco.

• 10:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  And, yeah, it doesn't surprise me.

• 11:02Danny Jones?

  Apparently, they would have dinner parties and play Donkey Kong together.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Donkey Kong?

• 11:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's what the article says.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Well.

• 11:08Danny Jones?

  But that's fascinating, because Jacques Vallée always talks about how, you know, he seems to be hyper-interested in the whole angels and demons stuff.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the opening line of Satanian, the first chapter is called "Diabolical Disclosure", and the opening line is, "How does one disclose the devil? That is, without ending the world."

• 11:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  And it comes back to this idea that the Collins elites see themselves as holding back the apocalypse. Because they think that if these phenomena are predominantly demonic, disclosing that would mean disclosing the Antichrist, which would then precipitate the second coming, or accelerate the second coming. So they think they're somehow doing the world a favor by maintaining the secrecy regarding the phenomenon, because it's essentially buying us time and holding back the end of the world. So I played with that idea at the opening of my first chapter in Satanian.

• 12:05Danny Jones?

  So these people are religious types?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Fanatically.

• 12:08Danny Jones?

  Religious fanatics.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, from the Air Force.

• 12:10Danny Jones?

  It would have to be to maintain this worldview, or this view of the phenomena.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, I think that probably in, you know, going back to maybe forty-seven or the nineteen fifty's, they've been recruited from among evangelicals or traditionalist Catholics. But if you go back probably to the eighteen ninety, late eighteen ninety's with the airship mystery, I don't know whether they started out that way, or whether they were spooked into having these kinds of beliefs, right? But look, think about it this way, Danny, if airships that look like constructions from out of Jules Verne sci-fi novels are showing up not just in the sky, over tens of states.

• 12:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  But they're landing in people's fields, and sheriffs and judges are coming up to these things and touching them, and interacting with the airship pilots.

• 13:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  If it turns out that those things aren't real, meaning they're not constructed objects, they're some kind of a projection, whether it's a psychokinetic projection, like a material, what they call materialization in psychical research, or whether it's some kind of a solid hologram, in any case, as a gentleman in the eighteen ninety's, or frankly, even, you know, this would, this would be how most people today would read it in, in America, you would probably consider that a diabolical deception, a machination of the devil, right? To engage in the manipulation of perception on that kind of scale, people tend to associate that with, I don't know, you know, satanic deception.

• 13:47Danny Jones?

  Oh my god. Seems silly.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the prisms through which many people and institutions look at this phenomenon are silly. Or simple minded.

• 13:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  And dangerously so.

• 14:01Danny Jones?

  All right, we were gonna talk about the moon.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's go to the moon.

• 14:04Danny Jones?

  What's so interesting, what, um, first of all, what made you start to pay attention to the moon?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  You know, I think this is a good place to start. It was the start of my interest in it in a serious way, and it's actually a good place, a good trajectory by which to go to the moon. And that's that I paid close attention to Stephen Greer's Disclosure Project, back when he was first starting it up in the 19, I think it was the late 1990s, a long time ago.

• 14:40Danny Jones?

  I think it was like 93 or something.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  It was, yeah. I might have become aware of it in the mid to late 90s.

• 14:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  So we're talking when I was like 17, 16, 17 years old. From early on, I paid attention to the testimony that he amassed from all of these people who have been involved with the military, with defense contractors.

• 15:00Danny Jones?

  Do you believe all the stuff that he says?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Short answer, no.

• 15:04Danny Jones?

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• 16:33Danny Jones?

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• 16:39Speaker 01

  But look, I think in the case of Stephen Greer, and maybe we can come back around to this because I saw parts of your show with him. In the case of Stephen Greer, you have to draw some very significant distinctions between the testimony he's getting from people who served in sensitive positions in the military industrial complex versus his interpretations of those testimonies, which is being filtered through his own worldview and ideology. And then furthermore, his own personal experiences. Because Greer came out like, what was it, 20 years ago, saying he himself was a contactee, I think from childhood. And he started doing these CE5, like, protocols for summoning entities and so forth, right?

• 17:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  So there's a great deal of difference between those kinds of claims versus amassing testimony from basically expert witnesses.

• 17:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Right? And I find the, you know, the stuff he did early on to be much more convincing and much more solid.

• 17:39Danny Jones?

  The whole, the origin story of being an ER doctor to all of a sudden getting a call to go to dinner with the head of the CIA seems a little suspect to me.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  I don't know. But I'll tell you what I found very interesting about some of that early testimony. There was this one case, and here we're going to get into a case of murder also.

• 17:59Danny Jones?

  Let's do it.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  There was this one case of this.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  I think he was sergeant, yeah, Sergeant Carl Wolf. Who although he wasn't fairly high ranking, I mean, you know, this is how compartmentalized information works in the military. You can be relatively low ranking person. But if you have technical expertise in a particular area, you have to be given a high level security clearance because you need to work on some technical aspect of a very sensitive subject. So in the case of Carl Wolf, he was a photographic technician and repairman. And I think it was 1965, so a few years before we went to the moon, right? We've got the lunar reconnaissance orbiter going around the moon preparing for the Apollo mission.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  And Carl Wolf is called in in his capacity as a photo technician, photographic repairman. He's called in to what they told him was an NSA facility. And I think he was stationed in Langley Air Force Base at the time. And they say, you know, we need you to come over to this NSA facility and work on this photographic processing machine. In 1965, nobody knew what the fuck the NSA was. It was so secret that people didn't even know it existed. So Wolf assumed that it was a NASA facility. He heard NSA as NASA.

• 19:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  And it also makes sense in terms of what he saw when he got there, which is that when he walked into this place, first of all, he saw scientists from all around the world. And he could tell because they were of various ethnicities. He saw Japanese people, Indian people, people from multiple countries speaking multiple languages, European languages.

• 19:50Danny Jones?

  Sure, there's a few Germans in there.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Probably, more than a few. And so he's taken into the photo lab, right? And there's another guy in there who's the same rank as him, I think also a sergeant. And before he gets to work on repairing this machine, this sergeant, and the two of them are in there alone, right? This sergeant can't help himself and he breaks protocol. And he shows Carl Wolf the photographs that have been coming off this machine he was brought in to repair. And they're mosaic photographs where, you know, they, the orbiter will take a bunch of images, a bunch of shots, and then they'll lay them next to each other and form a mosaic of a larger Right.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  site that's been targeted for satellite photography, right? And the sergeant says, "We found a city." And he starts showing him these mosaics, putting them next to each other. And they're high-resolution photographs of a megalithic city on the dark side of the moon. Spherical buildings, polygonal buildings, obelisks like the, you know, needles in Egypt.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  And dishes, he said, like that looked like, you know, radio telescope dishes.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Huge structures, which I guess the resolution of the photographs was so good that he could tell that they weren't made of metal, they were made of something like a poured stone, kind of like concrete. Which is interesting because a lot of ancient sites on Earth are made from that type of material. Right. These enigmatic megalithic structures on Earth seem to have a similar construction as what Carl Wolf, at least what was, what was, you know, presented to him as a city on the dark side of the moon. And so he's looking at this thing and he...

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Then, then the, basically the, somebody walked in and so the sergeant cuts off his, you know, cuts off this, you know...

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Illegally volunteering this classified information to Wolf and he goes to work repairing the photography machine. But anyway, he said he went home and he expected that either that night or like sometime in the next week or sometime in the next year, we would hear about this city that had been photographed on the dark side of the moon. And of course, it was never revealed, right? So this was one of the most striking early testimonies that I heard from out of Greer's Disclosure Project that got me really interested in the moon. And what's really creepy is that-

• 22:27Danny Jones?

  That was sixty, sixty what?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Sixty-five.

• 22:30Danny Jones?

  Sixty-five.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Few years before Apollo. And what's really disturbing is that this disclosure wave that we're in the midst of right now began in 2017, right? With that New York Times piece.

• 22:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  So around about 2018, there are serious discussions about subpoenaing people to get testimony from them. And then later than that, Grush now, you know, spearheaded this initiative to have people come and testify in front of Congress and release individuals from their security oaths, right? Well, guess when poor Carl Wolf met with an untimely end. 2018, one year after Disclosure starts, his bike was run over by a truck.

• 23:15Danny Jones?

  How old was he?

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Young, I mean relatively.

• 23:18Danny Jones?

  Can you find, can you find the story of Carl Wolf?

• 23:20Speaker 01

  He might have been in his 50s or something.

• 23:22Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  And I mean, this is what happened to John Mack too. This is how they murdered John Mack. They had him run over on the road.

• 23:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but isn't it, yeah, I understand that that's sketchy about John Mack, but do you think it's, do you think it's probable that he was whacked?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Seventy-four.

• 23:38Danny Jones?

  And it wasn't just an accident?

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 23:39Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do think so. I do think so.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  He was 74 years old.

• 23:44Danny Jones?

  The 74-year-old, uh, Lansing bicyclist.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Well, he was in good enough shape that he was riding his bike regularly.

• 23:51Danny Jones?

  Can you click on it?

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Just search Carl Wolf with a K.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Oh, it's not this one?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  No, well, it has a correct underneath there.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, Carl, I see.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Carl Wolf with a K.

• 24:08Danny Jones?

  Claimed to have top secret NASA photos showing alien structures on the moon. He worked with a tactical air command at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia and had top secret clearance in 20, okay, 2001, Wolf made a startling claim that NASA was hiding evidence of artificial structures on the far side of the moon. He died in a bike accident on October 10th, 2018 in New York after being hit by a tractor trailer.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think it's awfully convenient that just when people are going to be subpoenaed to testify under oath and released from their security clearances, this guy gets, has an accident. Okay, so let's, let's go further down this, this path to the moon.

• 24:50Danny Jones?

  Quick little, sure, quick, quick, quick question, don't want to derail this.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 24:53Danny Jones?

  But have you heard of a guy named Hal Povenmire? Okay, continue.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Okay, so they have these photographs, right?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Those photographs went somewhere. I mean, there was a whole room full of international scientists that Carl Wolf ran into as on his way to repair that machine. So these photographs went somewhere. Well, guess what? These photographs show up again later in the history of military intelligence. In the 1970s, when Ingo Swan started to work for the Stanford Research Institute on contract for the CIA, some guy who identified himself as Lambert Dolphin, which is probably a pseudonym or code name. This Lambert Dolphin, basically, um, he, he pulled Ingo Swan from out of the unit that he was working with. This unit that was basically a CIA unit, right?

• 25:48Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  So this Lambert Dolphin, whoever he was, and Swan was never able to figure out what outfit in the US government this guy was really working for. He had the authority to take a CIA asset out of the CIA remote viewing program and put him on another task. And Swan was blindfolded, he was flown in a helicopter to a classified facility. It was one of these deep underground facilities. And he recounts having gone down in an elevator, like lord knows how deep. This is in Swan's book Penetration.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  So Swan says he goes down there and they want his, you know, talent as a remote viewer and they start targeting him, you know, on these photographs that are inside envelopes. And he basically starts describing the moon. But he's standing in the middle of a nexus of roads inside a city on the moon. And he describes these gargantuan buildings, huge Titanic scale of construction. He sees the same obelisks that Carl Wolf describes, you know, like the needles in ancient Egypt. And he said, by the way, I got the impression that those were purely ceremonial. They didn't have any particular function.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  But he saw other buildings that looked like reactor domes, like as if they were, you know, nuclear power plants or something like that. And receiving dishes and antennas and so forth. So he describes this Titanic city. And, you know, it stands to reason that whatever was in those envelopes were probably the photographs that were taken by the orbiter back in 65 before Apollo. The photographs that Carl Wolf had reported seeing while he was repairing that machine. So now you have a second point of confirmation. Now here's the really creepy thing, Danny. What else Ingo Swan saw on the dark side of the moon were masses of people huddled together

• 27:45Speaker 01

  in ramshackle shelters. People who were naked and who were being used as slave labor. This is what he said. He said that. And now the fact that they were naked and apparently breathing while working inside craters on the moon, who knows, maybe mining helium three or whatever, suggests that there was some kind of an artificial atmosphere that maybe where they were working was underneath a transparent dome that wasn't, you know, visible to Swan.

• 28:14Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  But in any case, that's not the important point. The important point and the disturbing one is that he saw slave labor on the moon and the people who were directing it were these tall Nordic looking fellows, one of whom could see Swan. And this has been reported by other remote viewers where sometimes when they're sent to a target, whether it's a contemporaneous target or whether it's some event in the past.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  They're witnessed by whoever's there.

• 28:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  As if like they're a ghost and, and those people are seeing a ghost.

• 28:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Well, this Nordic on the dark side of the moon saw Swan. And he got the distinct impression like the guy was telling him telepathically, why the fuck are you here? You don't belong here.

• 28:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 29:00Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Now that fits with something else that I was told. I was told this by a, an officer in the CIA who had read my book, Closer Encounters, and he had, he wanted to have a conversation with me because he told me that, basically.

• 29:17Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 29:18Speaker 01

  This was in two, two years ago, two and a half years ago.

• 29:22Danny Jones?

  This is just called, he's like, yeah, I work for the CIA. Can we talk?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  He knew someone I know.

• 29:27Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  And he got in touch through that person. And he, anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but long story short, he, he was like, how did you put all these jigsaw puzzle pieces together? Do you, he was looking to see if there was a leak and, and whether it needed to be plugged.

• 29:42Danny Jones?

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• 30:27Danny Jones?

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• 31:20Danny Jones?

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• 31:28Speaker 01

  Because he said that there were too many things in my book that were the same conclusions that they had reached, based on having access to classified information. And he was wondering how the hell I put these same pieces together in the same way.

• 31:40Danny Jones?

  About this moon stuff?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  All kinds of things. The subjects that I discuss in, you know, this book Closer Encounters.

• 31:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, okay.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  And, uh...

• 31:49Speaker 01

  But the moon came up, among other things.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  And he said, "Listen, after Swan was sent, we kept sending people to the moon, remote viewers.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  And we distinctly got the message from these guys on the moon. Do not keep sending people here. This is off limits." And we didn't listen to them. And the last viewer that we sent up there, his soul is trapped on the moon. His body is in a coma in a special medical facility run by the CIA. And his family has been given like medical compensation or whatever. They told him that... They told his family that the guy had died in the line of duty or whatever. And he's been held in stasis for years and years as they wait for his soul to come back from the moon, where apparently there's the capacity

• 32:48Speaker 01

  to lure and trap somebody's consciousness, which they finally did to one of these CIA remote viewers, after repeatedly telling them not to... Not to surveil whatever's going on up there.

• 32:59Danny Jones?

  We had a guy on here named David Morehouse.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 33:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was a psych... He was a remote viewer, a part of the... He was a part of these programs for a long time. I think it was in the 70s.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  I read his book Psychic Warrior.

• 33:10Danny Jones?

  Psychic Warrior. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said that he remote viewed the moon and there was nothing.

• 33:17Danny Jones?

  He's like, "It's all bullshit. There's nobody there."

• 33:20Speaker 01

  I don't know whether he was being blocked or what, but I can tell you some other things about the moon that are much creepier than a city on the dark side of it.

• 33:27Danny Jones?

  Well, and here's another thing. If there was a city, why is it only on the dark side?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Well, because that side faces away from us all the time.

• 33:33Danny Jones?

  So because whoever built it doesn't want us to see it?

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. That's the convenient place to put it. There's also another reason that's technical, which is that if you, if you put, you know, we've been studying this in terms of potential lunar colonization, that if you put listening telescopes, you know, like the Arcebo dish, stuff that's meant to convey signals across space. If you put it on the side of the moon that faces the Earth, there's too much interference with radio signals coming from the Earth. So if you want to have basically interspace communication from the moon to elsewhere, it's better to put something on the, on the side that always faces away from us so that you're not bombarded with radio signals that are being transmitted from the Earth.

• 34:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  That's a technical reason why you would do it. But mainly, I think it's, you know, for concealment purposes.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Okay, but the story of, of what's going on on the moon is a lot more,

• 34:36Speaker 01

  it's a lot more startling than finding a, a city on the dark side of it. Right? Because you could be dealing with a natural satellite that has been colonized at who knows what time by whatever spacefaring civilization. No, it looks like, it looks like there's a, a much more disturbing scenario here. And, you know, our government became aware of this during Apollo 12 and 13. During Apollo 12, I think it was the lander that impacted the moon

• 35:10Speaker 01

  in a way that set off a seismometer that had been prepositioned there. There was a seismograph that was prepositioned on the moon. And when the Apollo 12 lander hit the surface of the moon,

• 35:24Speaker 01

  The signal that came from the seismograph was consistent with the ringing or vibration of a hollow object.

• 35:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  So the way that the shockwave passed through the moon suggested that there was very little inside the moon.

• 35:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Okay, it rang like a bell as they described it.

• 35:44Danny Jones?

  For a while, right?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  In the first case, it was for almost an hour. So then they got curious about this and in Apollo 13, they deliberately crashed the third stage of Apollo 13 into the surface of the moon to carry out a test to see whether this was a repeatable phenomenon, right? And this time, the seismograph not only confirmed the resonance passing through a hollow object, but the moon rang like a bell for three hours. So, and they were able to tell like how much more or less of the moon, you know, is apparently hollow.

• 36:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  And it's, it's, uh, it's really shocking. It's like the moon goes down for about 20 miles as a solid structure. And then on the inside, there's a distance of about a thousand miles radially, a thousand miles from the interior of the shell to the core, radially in every direction. In other words, the distance between Los Angeles and Seattle, or New York and St. Louis, or Paris and Prague, out from the center is hollow inside the moon.

• 37:01Danny Jones?

  There was a recent NASA article that came out. I think it was on the NASA website where they said they discovered caves, like underground caverns in the moon, which would suggest that it was like, maybe like a honeycomb structure on the inside or something like that?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  I suspect that it's not natural caverns, but that what they're seeing are the hollows between all kinds of complex machinery that are inside that structure. One of the other things that they noted with these impact tests was that the moon sort of, it seemed to compensate and correct for the impact in a way that suggested there were oscillators inside the structure.

• 37:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  So I think probably there's machinery inside this thing. Now, another data point that corroborates that.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Going back to the remote viewers.

• 37:52Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Is that Joe McMonigal was tasked with remote viewing Mars in 1984. And this was a CIA operation run at the Monroe Institute. So it was CIA. He was working on contract for the CIA. And this was done at the Monroe Institute.

• 38:14Danny Jones?

  He was the first remote viewer, right?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  I think he might have been. Well, no, I think Ingo Swan was the first.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  But I think he had the designation 001 or something like that.

• 38:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, maybe it was two, I don't know.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. But in any case, in 1984 Monroe Institute, and this has since been released. This is one of these classified documents that has since been declassified. It's called like Mars 1,000,000 B.C. You can look it up, Joe McMonigal.

• 38:41Danny Jones?

  Mars 1,000,000 B.C.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, Joe McMonigal. And so, look, Joe McMonigal is tasked to look at.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  He doesn't know, of course, he's working blind to the target. That's how remote viewing is, right? But what's inside these envelopes are the photographs that the Viking

• 39:04Speaker 01

  probe took on Mars in 1976. Where we got back these images of the pyramids and the fort and the face, infamously. Right? So there are all these apparent manmade megalithic structures in the Sedonia region of Mars, which were first photographed by the Viking mission in 1976. And that's what was inside these envelopes.

• 39:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  When McMonigal was doing this remote viewing session. And he described being in the midst of the ruins of a megalithic city.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  With gigantic pyramids, he said they seemed like they were maybe three times the size of the Great Pyramid in Giza.

• 39:50Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  And he described, uh...

• 39:54Danny Jones?

  Part of the Stargate project.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he described a maze of structures under these pyramids, like subterranean tunnels and hallways.

• 40:03Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  At one point, he walks through one of these hallways, and it leads to an opening, and he finds himself on the outside of the pyramid, looking up at it.

• 40:11Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Looking up across the face of the pyramid. And he describes also these, um, these highways that are trenches. They're these perfectly geometric trenches cut across miles and miles of Mars's surface. And he said his impression was that they were used for craft, like, you know, there are bad storms on Mars, right? So if you had hovercraft, hovercars, or whatever, you would want them to be transiting through something that had high walls on either side. There was a, you know, sunken channel, basically.

• 40:49Danny Jones?

  To avoid a sandstorm.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  To avoid a sandstorm passing over the top of your head.

• 40:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like some Star Wars shit.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  So this is basically, he describes this, okay, during his remote viewing session.

• 40:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  But he says, "Look, the civilization is long dead. I'm seeing, you know, the ruins of a civilization that once was eons before this." And he was tasked at 1,000,000 B.C. So they said to him, "Okay, so go back to when these people were still alive and thriving." And he goes way, way back. Now, I, we can infer from another data point that I'll come to, you know, how far back he went.

• 41:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  But he doesn't say in the session. But he goes back to when these people were around. And then he describes Nordic-looking, super-tall people in skintight jumpsuits.

• 41:37Danny Jones?

  People.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  People, who look like Scandinavians, except he said they're, they had more like, uh, I don't know, like between an Olympic swimmer and a football player's physique, with very broad shoulders, not an ounce of body fat. He said he could see all their musculature through their skintight suits.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  And what McMonigal relates is that these people were facing the end of their civilization. And some of them had this, what he describes as very philosophical sense of resignation, where they were like, "Well, we had our time. It's not fair for us to ask for more time. We've had more time than we should have had," some of them. And some of them are still trying to survive and endure. And the ones who are trying to survive, he says, "They've looked for a way out, and no matter what they do, they can't seem to find a way out." Just pin that somewhere, right? Then he says, "They designed and got into a spacecraft

• 42:42Speaker 01

  that was cylindrical," which is very much the description of a lot of these cylinder-shaped, cigar-shaped UFOs, metallic cigar-shaped craft, "and they went to another planet, which they were scouting out to see whether it was a viable world for them to relocate to." And this other planet was, it was nothing like Mars. It was very green, overgrown with vegetation, in fact, but there were constant storms on it, electrical storms, typhoons. There was a lot of volcanic activity on this planet. And they basically concluded that they couldn't settle there without altering the planet, without terraforming it in some

• 43:25Speaker 01

  way to make it more habitable. So...

• 43:31Danny Jones?

  This is a long conversation to have during a remote viewing session.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Yes. So they got all this out of them, right? I think those are all the important points. And...

• 43:39Danny Jones?

  Very detailed.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yes. So now you put this next to what Dr. John Brandenburg discovered regarding Mars. Dr. Brandenburg, who I got to spend a few days with in New Mexico a number of years ago, he worked on the Clementine mission for NASA, and at one point, he was working at Sandia Labs, which is where I think a lot of the nuclear weapons are designed.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  And he was looking at isotopic data from Mars. So, you know, every planet has, you know, certain amount of isotopes of different materials and metals and so forth on it.

• 44:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  And apparently, the isotopic ratio of xenon-129 is consistent across the entire solar system, except for on Mars and our thermonuclear test sites on Earth. There's a deviation from the norm of the isotopic signature of xenon-129 at our thermonuclear test sites on Earth. And we find the same thing at Sedonia on Mars.

• 44:48Danny Jones?

  Why is it different on nuclear test sites?

• 44:51Speaker 01

  There's something happens when, and it has to be not an atomic bomb, but a thermonuclear bomb. When a thermonuclear bomb is detonated, that leaves a trace of xenon-129 in that area, which is not the normal, basically, distribution of that isotope that you would find, you know, on Earth or on any of the other rocky bodies in the solar system.

• 45:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  And according to Brandenburg, it's a very distinct signature. It's unmistakable, and it's very specifically associated with thermonuclear weapons detonation. Then, after, you know, he discussed this with one of the scientists at Sandia Labs, whose expertise is working on nuclear weapons, he checked for other isotopes, and he saw that the isotopes of, the isotopic ratio of thorium and uranium was also off at Sedonia in a way that matched thermonuclear test sites. And so he came to the conclusion that, and even did the math, like, how many nukes would you have had to detonate in this place to produce this kind of a deviation?

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Turns out that an empire state buildings worth of our highest yield thermonuclear warheads would have had to have been detonated there to produce this kind of isotopic signature. And this is exactly the same place where we find these blasted megalithic structures on the surface of Mars.

• 46:15Danny Jones?

  So there's a nuclear war on Mars?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  So Brandenburg's thesis is that there was a nuclear war on Mars. I cover this in my book Closer Encounters.

• 46:23Danny Jones?

  And did that basically get rid of the atmosphere? Is that responsible for how like the atmosphere is almost non-existent on Mars?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  It would definitely have been a contributing factor. I want to come around to what I think might have been another factor in that.

• 46:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  But definitely would have been a contributing factor. But we were on about the moon, so why am I going on this on this detour to Mars?

• 46:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Because it's when you put Brandenburg's research next to what Joe McMonigal saw.

• 46:51Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  And by the way, while we're on this subject, Ingo Swan was also tasked independently of Joe McMonigal to look at Mars twice. Once was in 1976, I think, and the other was in 1984, same year that McMonigal did his. But Swan's team and McMonigal were unaware of each other. These were, I mean, obviously, this makes sense as protocol. They wanted two sets of remote viewers on the same target to get, you know, corroboration. And Swan did his with a whole team of people. McMonigal worked alone at the Monroe Institute. Swan had like five or six people working with him.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And in 1984, and also in the viewing in, I think, 76 or so, Ingo Swan and his team described exactly the same thing as Joe McMonigal. They described a civilization on Mars, most of which was in ruins and was vastly ancient, but other parts of which still survived under the surface. He described the honeycomb of cities under the surface of Mars and some structures on the surface, which were like relaying information and being used as transportation beacons and had been built by this civilization that is still active under the surface of Mars, cities that are subterranean.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  So, so but, okay, but this all came from out of discussing the moon.

• 48:16Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  When you put the remote viewing data next to Brandenburg's thesis, what it suggests, oh, and Brandenburg, his estimation was that this nuclear event in Sedonia took place maybe 100 million years ago. Maybe 100 million years ago.

• 48:35Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  When were the dinosaurs killed off?

• 48:38Danny Jones?

  Six million?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  65, 65 million years ago, right? So it's a ballpark. And when you put these two sets of data together, as I did in my book Closer Encounters, the conclusion that emerges is that the moon was constructed by these survivors of some kind of apocalypse on Mars. And it probably had at least two functions initially. One was to transport a shit-ton of people over here.

• 49:04Danny Jones?

  The moon?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  And the other one was to act as a terraforming device. So if we didn't have the moon where it is, in this extremely stable orbit that it's in, right?

• 49:17Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  We would have eight-hour days. The Earth would be spinning much faster than it is right now.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  The Earth would also not be as stable as it is. There've been calculations done that show that the Earth would be prone to toppling over at, you know, at odd intervals.

• 49:36Danny Jones?

  Well, all planets have moons, right?

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yes, but only our moon stabilizes a planet to the extent, you know, only our moon stabilizes our planet in the way that it does. And only our moon has as stable an orbit as it does. And none of the other moons in the solar system create the beautiful eclipses that we have here because the moon is, the moon is, get this, 1/400 the size of the sun.

• 50:06Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  And it's 1/400 the distance to the sun. So the fact that it's 1/400 the size of the sun and 1/400 distance to the sun produces this perfect eclipse.

• 50:16Danny Jones?

  If you put the moon directly between us and the sun, it perfectly occludes the diameter of the sun.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 50:22Danny Jones?

  Are there, do we know if there's any other moons like that?

• 50:24Speaker 01

  No, there's no other moon that produces it, none. But what's even more significant is that our moon has an extremely stable orbit. No other moon in this solar system orbits its planet with as little deviation as our moon does.

• 50:38Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yes. And so it appears there's something inside the moon stabilizing that orbit, which is also stabilizing the Earth. And what did it give us? It gave us a climate, an environment, a biosphere that rendered this planet habitable for humans. Remember what McMonigal said. He said they sent a scout ship to another planet. It was overgrown with vegetation. It wasn't arid like Mars. There were volcanoes going off. There were electrical storms. And they were like, this place is too volatile. We can't settle here the way that it is now. So the moon was probably used in order to terraform the Earth into a habitat that humans could, humans, Martians, could settle in to become the human race.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  So now, there are other pieces of data.

• 51:26Danny Jones?

  We're talking about roughly how long ago? 100 million?

• 51:30Speaker 01

  100 to 65 million years ago. Now, look. The dinosaurs would probably have had to have been killed off for this, right? So one hypothesis that follows from this is that the impact that killed off the dinosaurs was deliberate, not some accidental asteroid impact. It wouldn't have been very easy to coexist with them, right?

• 51:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Okay, but look, there are other data points that really nail this case. For example, the craters on the moon. On Earth, when you have impact craters from meteorites, for example, right? The craters are roughly proportionally deep as they are wide. They dig into the Earth. On the moon, you have these utterly bizarre craters, which are like over 100 miles wide, like the Gregaron crater or the Klavius crater. You could fit Switzerland and Luxembourg together inside some of these craters. They're over 100 miles wide. They're never more than four or five miles deep. That doesn't make any sense.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  The inside of these crater basins are all convex, like the surface of a contact lens.

• 52:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  So, think about this. Why would a meteor impact, meteorite impact, produce a crater that's so much wider than it is deep? And then, in the specially wide craters like Clavius, you see that the surface of that crater is convex. It's because it's hitting a hard shell that's underneath the regolith, and the regolith is like astroturf that's been put on the surface of that space station to make it look like it's a moon.

• 53:12Danny Jones?

  They knew the Earth was there. It was too volatile, too unstable. I'm sure the equinox is not as stable as it is now.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  There wasn't any. We didn't have seasons. That's a product of the moon.

• 53:25Danny Jones?

  The equinox is only because of the moon.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  So, this 23-degree deviation that we have between the equator and the celestial equator.

• 53:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  That produces the equinoxes and the solstices as a function of the moon.

• 53:39Danny Jones?

  What other things about the moon, like, other than, like, we mentioned the distance from the Sun to the Moon and how it perfectly occludes the Sun from our perspective. But, like, what other things about our Moon are exclusive to our Moon?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  So, first of all, there's the extremely bizarre ratio that you just mentioned, right? Where this 1/400th size of the Sun, 1/400th distance from the Sun.

• 54:05Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  And that's what produces these eclipses. Then there's incredible stability of the orbit of the Moon.

• 54:11Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Then, as we mentioned, these craters don't make any sense, right? These craters don't make any sense. And the basin of them seems like it's revealing a shell of some kind, a spherical shell.

• 54:22Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Then there's the impact tests, right? The Apollo 12 and Apollo 13, where the Moon, on a seismograph, registered like a hollow object.

• 54:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  And by the way, there's no Moon that's a hollow object. Back before Carl Sagan became such a skeptic, he even commented on this and said that it's terrifying because no natural satellite is hollow.

• 54:44Danny Jones?

  We know that no other moons are hollow?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yes, we know it.

• 54:48Danny Jones?

  How do we know?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  It's just not what moons are. Moons are like, you know, they're like rocky bodies that are trapped by a planet and they're rocky all the way through.

• 54:57Danny Jones?

  And do we know, do we, do we observe the craters on other moons to see how similar they are to our moon? Or how different they are than our moon?

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have detailed, like for example, Phobos and the moons of Mars, we have detailed images of them. And first of all-

• 55:09Danny Jones?

  How many moons does Mars have?

• 55:11Speaker 01

  It has two.

• 55:12Danny Jones?

  Two moons?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Saturn and Jupiter have a bunch.

• 55:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  And you know, the other thing about these moons are they're all weird shaped. They look like deformed potatoes. You know, a lot of them, they're not beautiful spherical objects like ours is.

• 55:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Um, but there is another interesting thing. And that's the mass cons. So there are these, you know, the moon has a lower gravity than Earth generally. Right? Remember the golf ball thing?

• 55:34Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  So, and the Apollo astronauts, we'll get to them too, the Apollo astronauts hopping around, you know, in the lower. But there are places on the moon where there's a much stronger gravity. There's Earth-like gravity or stronger than Earth-like gravity. And it's actually a problem for navigation because when they pass satellites over, they have, they can't fly too low because the craft will be pulled by these gravity wells. There are places on the moon, they call them mass cons, mass concentrations, where the gravity deviates from the standard on the moon. And guess what? They're all perfectly circular.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  So, one thing I hypothesized in closer encounters was that if this thing is a space station, it's possible that they built saucers into the surface of it.

• 56:26Danny Jones?

  Look at that. Mass cons, short for mass concentrations. They're regions of the moon's surface with a higher gravitational pull than the surrounding areas. These anomalies were first identified in the 1960s. Holy shit.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have to compensate for those when they fly anything around the moon. Anyway, look, here's the thing.

• 56:43Danny Jones?

  We gotta make sure, we just, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta keep you on point here.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh-

• 56:49Danny Jones?

  We can't be just letting Giorgio fly by the seat of his pants here.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  One possibility is that when they built the space station-

• 56:57Speaker 01

  They built saucers into the surface of it. Remember, all the mass cons are circular.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  A saucer is going to have a zero-point energy drive generating.

• 57:07Danny Jones?

  A flying saucer?

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, a flying saucer is going to have a local gravitational field.

• 57:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  And if there's people in the saucer, it's 1G.

• 57:17Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Which is greater gravity than the rest of the moon. So one possibility is that what these mass cons are, are saucers embedded in the space station underneath the regolith as a potential evacuation protocol. Suppose there's a danger, like if some giant asteroid is coming that might hit the earth or it might hit the moon and they need to evacuate the station, right? Well, these saucers could just peel off the surface. So that's one possibility of what these mass cons are. It are, you know, saucers with zero-point energy drives running embedded into the surface of the object.

• 57:52Danny Jones?

  What do you make of the post-game press conference after the moon landing? Where all the astronauts are sitting there, they look, they look like they're on a hostage tape.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  This is where I wanted to go next.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  We mentioned the astronaut, right? So, you know, these guys don't even remember what they did up there.

• 58:10Danny Jones?

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• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  When you ask them, they've done interviews with these astronauts. And when you ask them, you know, "So what did you do on such and such a day?" They basically rehearse a mission log. "We did this," and then we... "No, no, no. I mean, how did you feel like when you were standing on the edge of that?" And then they freeze up. They start to look ill. And so like you're saying in that press conference, right? They don't look like national heroes coming back from having been the first men on the moon.

• 1:00:46Danny Jones?

  Like hostages.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  They look like they've had the shit scared out of them, or, you know, yeah. So I think that these people saw some terrifying things up there. And that's also what Soviet intelligence thought. In Timothy Good's book, Above Top Secret...

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  British UFO researcher. Was close to Admiral Norton, Admiral Lord Hill Norton, British Navy. Was one of the people who endorsed Timothy Good's work. And in his book Above Top Secret, Timothy Good recounts a meeting between British Intelligence and Soviet Intelligence back during the Cold War. And the Soviets said, "We were listening to the medical channel during Apollo." They had a channel that they would use to report back like medical emergencies, things they didn't want the public to hear. A separate channel from the one that was being broadcast across television. And, you know, unsurprisingly, the KGB had found access to this.

• 1:01:47Danny Jones?

  Okay. They weren't supposed to have access.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, even our ham radio operators were listening to this in America. Some ham radio operators said that they were able to pick up on this too. So, the Soviets said, "We heard Armstrong and Apollo 11 say, 'These babies are huge. They're huge. They're warning us off. They're on the edge of the crater.'" And there's this whole conversation on the medical channel about how the Apollo 11 astronauts were effectively assaulted and scared off by huge spacecraft on the moon, which were not there to greet them, they got the sense that they were there to say, "Get the hell out of here." So, you know, people have all these...

• 1:02:31Danny Jones?

  Who was the person that said this? And this was, it was somebody...

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  It was a conversation between British Intelligence, a British Intelligence officer. You can find it in Timothy Good's book Above Top Secret.

• 1:02:40Danny Jones?

  Above Top Secret, okay.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was a British Intelligence operative who during, I think toward the end of the Cold War, was meeting with the Soviet counterpart. And the Soviets said, "We have the record of this." Conversation between Armstrong and ground control on the medical channel. Where they were saying they saw the... Now, that would scare the shit out of you.

• 1:02:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Moreover, by 1969, 70, they had already done this MKUltra stuff.

• 1:03:08Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:03:09Danny Jones?

  So, you think they wiped their memory somehow?

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly, exactly. We had already done this MKUltra stuff. And I think these poor guys were MKUltra'd when they came back to try to get them to forget as much of what happened on the moon as possible. And that would also explain why they all wound up with dysfunctional lives. These guys all became alcoholics.

• 1:03:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Their wives divorced them all. Their their personal lives became a disaster.

• 1:03:32Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  So, yeah, that's another piece of corroboration that, you know, the moon is inhabited. And it's also probably an artificial satellite.

• 1:03:42Danny Jones?

  And why haven't we been back since?

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:03:46Danny Jones?

  There was a, we watched this interview multiple times on previous podcasts where there is, I think it's the head of NASA is being talked, he's being interviewed in front of the Senate.

• 1:03:58Danny Jones?

  And they're talking about China. How they had a plan to map or explore the dark side of the moon or whatever. And they asked him, like, if they, if we plan on doing it too. And he goes, no, we're not interested in doing that. We have no interest in the dark side.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  You know what I find profoundly disturbing about that? Is that humiliation is the worst thing in Chinese culture. The worst thing, okay? So the Chinese are not about to go up to the moon and have their asses handed to them.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Moreover, the Chinese are going to the moon in collaboration and cooperation with the Russians. The Chinese and the Russians plan to build a space station that orbits the moon and then send astronauts from the space station down to the surface of the moon. Right? If there's that degree of cooperation between Russia and China on the moon, it means the Soviet dossier has been handed over to the Chinese.

• 1:04:54Danny Jones?

  The Soviet dossier?

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Soviet dossier on the moon.

• 1:04:58Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  What's in that?

• 1:05:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Everything the Americans encountered on the moon, which is why the Soviets never went to the moon. Remember, we were competing with the Soviet Union to go to the moon.

• 1:05:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Why is it that we went up there and then all the Soviets just decided to cancel their moon program? No.

• 1:05:16Danny Jones?

  They knew.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Of course, they knew. They knew. And also, there were discussions in the Soviet Union at that time. That, okay, if America makes it to the moon first, we'll go to Mars first. They figured it out. Neither are for the taking, neither the moon nor Mars. So what's really disturbing about the Chinese initiative? Is that if the Chinese of all people are planning to go up there and, I don't know, if not colonize, at least do some scientific research or whatever, right? It means they've gotten clearance.

• 1:05:51Danny Jones?

  From the people that are there?

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. Now, and notice how the balance of power is shifting in the world toward China.

• 1:06:00Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:06:02Danny Jones?

  People have different opinions online. I don't know who to believe.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Look, I mean, it has been. Now, whether that can be reversed is another question. But

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  if you wanted to manage a global totalitarian state.

• 1:06:17Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  With ubiquitous surveillance and an extremely technocratic form of government. Uh, with little personal freedom, right? A controlled society on a global scale. The Chinese would be the optimal people to put in charge for that.

• 1:06:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Because it fits the values of Confucianism.

• 1:06:35Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Okay? So if someone on the moon, potentially also on Mars, wants to impose a totalitarian world government on Earth, they're not going to make a deal with the United States. They're going to make a deal with China.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  That's what I find most disturbing about Chinese plans to go to the moon. I actually don't think we would even be going back there if it weren't for the fact that Chinese already are.

• 1:07:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but, okay, maybe. But who would they?

• 1:07:08Danny Jones?

  Who would they make the deal with in the United States? That's the thing. There's, there's two parts of the United States. There's the idealistic view of the United States, and then there's the real people who are running the show behind the scenes in the United States. And they probably are very envious of China's totalitarian surveillance state that they live under. So.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  You know, I'm not sure. It's very easy to make these kinds of moral judgments. If I were in Lockheed at a high level with security clearance to the special programs that are dealing with zero-point energy and electro-gravitic drives.

• 1:07:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  I'm not so sure that considering the kind of society we have in this country, let alone in the world at large, I would publicly disclose that technology. I mean, we talked about this last time, I think. The weaponization implications and dual-use potential of such technology is extremely socially destabilizing. So, the thing is, with China, you can manage technology and control information in that way.

• 1:08:15Danny Jones?

  Yes, totally.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Based on the ideals of the Bill of Rights and the United States Constitution, you can't.

• 1:08:20Danny Jones?

  It makes it way harder.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Right, so they have a good negotiating partner in China.

• 1:08:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes, that makes a ton of sense.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  So even if you're in Lockheed, you're stuck behind all these walls of classification and these security oaths that you've taken, you might still believe in the ideals of the Bill of Rights. And you might not be ready to sell out, you know, at least the American citizenry, to a foreign power or an alien power that intends to subjugate the planet and, you know, subject us to a global tyranny. So, yeah, I'm not convinced that even people in the deepest strata of the deep state are so, how can I put it, callous and nihilistic and self-serving that they would make a deal with people who want tyranny over to the planet.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if for a long time they've kept these technologies close to the chest in order to develop some kind of a deterrence capability or to approach parity, technological and military parity.

• 1:09:27Danny Jones?

  With what?

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  With them? Yeah, with the people on the moon.

• 1:09:30Danny Jones?

  What do you think it would be like to be a person who is at the highest of levels in one of these secret, super-compartmentalized, private aerospace companies that has, and you are aware of the deepest, darkest secrets of reverse, whatever, reverse-engineered spaceships, alien contact, where they are, everything. Like, to be that person, going to work, coming home, having dinner with your wife, tucking your kids in, like, what would that do to you? What would that do to your psychology?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Okay, great question.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Permit me to answer it in a little bit of a roundabout way because I want to give you a substantive answer, right? And so here's where I want to go into the idea of the simulation theory. Because the deepest, darkest secret that somebody in that position, in Lockheed or Northrop or even at some of, let's say at IBM and some of these, you know, computer companies, tech giants that have been in bed with the defense contractors and the government for decades, the deepest, darkest secret that they would know isn't even anything to do with zero-point energy drives or even with the psionic aspects of, say, piloting

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  UFOs, which is another whole thing.

• 1:10:55Danny Jones?

  This new stuff that's coming out with these new whistleblowers. It's been, it sounds like-

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  By the way, I predicted it. This is one of the reasons why that guy in the CIA contacted me after Closer Encounters came out. Because one of the things that I argue throughout this whole book, actually, it goes back to even my first book, Prometheus and Atlas, is that I said, that book was published in 2016.

• 1:11:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  I said, "There's not going to be any UFO disclosure without disclosure of psychic abilities, and there's not going to be any substantive scientific mainstream acceptance of psychic abilities without UFO disclosure."

• 1:11:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  These two things are completely inextricable. They're going to find that there are psionic aspects to the guidance systems of UFOs.

• 1:11:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  And that basically the pilot interacting telepathically with the system is part of how the thing is piloted.

• 1:11:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the story of that guy, Michael Herrera, that is straight out of Stranger Things.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  We'll come to that. So that goes to your question about what's the ethics of a person?

• 1:11:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  Who's, you know, deep inside the system, right? How has their worldview been shaped by the horrific things that they've been apprised of, right? So to me, the most horrific thing isn't-

• 1:11:57Danny Jones?

  And not only that, but like, how does that shape your mind when you're almost living in, it's like that new show that came out called Severance, where they, they basically, they have a chip installed in their head, and when they go to work, they go up the elevator, it like shuts them off from their mind in the civilian world.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Danny Jones?

  And then they wake up in their, their mind, in their work environment, on their floor where they're severed. So it's like, they're living these two parallel lives.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got to develop a split personality.

• 1:12:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, very much so.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Or like the doctor in Stranger Things, the one who works closely with Eleven.

• 1:12:34Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  You know, the Papa figure, right?

• 1:12:37Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Some of these guys are family men, and you know, they go home, they have to deal with their wives, they have to deal with their kids.

• 1:12:42Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  And you know, they have to somehow dissociate from what it is they do at work every day.

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  In any case,

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  what are the deepest, darkest secrets that these people, you know, have been apprised of?

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  You remember how I said in Remote Viewing of Mars by Joe McMonigal, there was this very curious thing he reported about how these people on Mars kept trying to find a way out.

• 1:13:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  And they couldn't find a way out, no matter what they did.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  What were they trying to find a way out of? So they got to Earth. I mean, if the theory that I'm proposing is correct, they made it to Earth, and they used the moon to terraform the Earth and so forth, right? So they weren't trying to get out of Mars, or get off of Mars. What were they trying to get out of? That's a good opener to this question of, you know, the simulation, and what evidence there is that we might be living inside of a simulation.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  So this is something that I discuss at length in my book, Satanian.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  And, you know, I've discussed simulation theory in Closer Encounters and other books of mine before, but I discovered something recently that's much more rigorous from a mathematics and physics perspective, and consequently also more compelling and disturbing. And that's this. Okay, so bear with me, it gets a little bit complicated.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  So we start building computers in the 1940s, right? Alan Turing, the big wall-sized computers, and we're competing with the Nazis.

• 1:14:20Danny Jones?

  The Maniac and the Iliac.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  And the Eniac.

• 1:14:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  At that time, in the 1940s, when we're building the first computers, there was this guy Claude Shannon, who developed a science known as information theory, subsequently came to be known as information theory. Because before computers were built, nobody thought of mathematically formalizing the transfer of information. We had phones at that time, we had radio transmissions, but nobody thought about what was being transmitted over phone lines or over telegraph lines as data transfer. That concept didn't exist. But once they started building computers, it stands to reason that somebody would mathematically

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  formulate what data is and what it means to transmit and transfer data. So this guy Claude Shannon does this, and he comes up with the idea of a binary digit, binary digit, bit, where data is conceived of according to the binary of 1 and 0. You know, data as being a construct built from out of sequences of 1s and 0s. Claude Shannon is the first person to conceptualize this. And Shannon also makes the point that, look, we live in a universe bound by the two laws of thermodynamics. The first law of thermodynamics is that energy can never be created or destroyed. Energy E equals mc squared. This is going to be important for what I'm about to say.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  So as Einstein, you know, showed us, energy and mass are interconvertible. E equals mc squared. So energy can become mass and mass can become energy. Right. But we can't identify anywhere in the physical universe, energy being created or destroyed. That's the first law of thermodynamics. Okay. Net total energy remains the same. Yep. Okay. So then the second law of thermodynamics is that we notice everywhere in nature, even, you know, like when you pour like a dye into a glass of water, that there's a tendency toward disorder in the cosmos over time. And so the second law of thermodynamics is that in a closed system,

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  The level of disorder or entropy either remains constant or increases. It's never the case that entropy decreases in nature. You never have more order emerge over time in large-scale physical processes.

• 1:16:55Danny Jones?

  As things age.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  As things age, more disorder.

• 1:16:58Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  It happens to our bodies, it happens to the whole universe. And so this is where they postulate the so-called heat death of the universe, that at a certain point, the entropy will become so great that first, you know, galaxies are pulled apart, then solar systems are pulled apart, then planets are pulled apart, and eventually atomic structures are pulled apart. And life becomes non-viable in the universe. Heat death of the universe, victory of entropy. That's the second law of thermodynamics. So Shannon says, look, if bits, binary digits, meaning information, is flowing through a computer system, that computer system is in the physical world,

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  meaning it's bound by the laws of entropy. Meaning it's bound by the laws of entropy. Okay? So then there's this German Jewish physicist, Rolf Landauer. He came over with the other German Jews who were fleeing the Nazis. And in 1961, Rolf Landauer builds upon Claude Shannon's groundwork in information theory. And he comes up with this equation, which I have in Satanian. Comes up with this very short, elegant equation, extrapolated from out of the second law of thermodynamics, which says that if you delete one bit of information,

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  there should be an increase of entropy outside of a computer system. So think about it this way.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  On a microchip or a magnetic tape, when it's blank, when it's blank, you've got the equivalent of 00000 or 1111111. There's no data.

• 1:18:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  When you record data on it, you get 010011101. So actually, the blank tape has more order than when you start encoding information on it. When conceived in physical terms. So because information is meaningful to us, and like a file has a book on it, text on it, and the text has meaning to us, or a photographic image has a meaning content to us, we think of information as, let's say, decreasing entropy. Because it's, we think of it as highly ordered because it's meaningful to us. But when you think of it as a bunch of ones and zeros, sequences of ones and zeros, when you think of it inside of a physical system,

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  the blank magnetic tape or the blank microchip has more order in it than when you start to record ones and zeros on it.

• 1:19:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  That's more chaotic.

• 1:19:39Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  0011100. So Rolf Landauer was saying if we erase the data, we're increasing, uh, I'm sorry, if we erase the data, we're decreasing entropy inside the computer. Now, according to the laws of thermodynamics, if you decrease entropy inside, somewhere inside a closed system, meaning the universe, you have to pay for it with an increase of entropy outside the system, outside the computer. So you're decreasing entropy inside the computer.

• 1:20:13Danny Jones?

  By deleting shit.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  By deleting shit.

• 1:20:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  That's got to result in more entropy outside the computer.

• 1:20:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Because the net energy has to remain the same. So he came up with an equation that expresses this, where if you delete one bit of information, certain amount of energy is released.

• 1:20:31Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  Okay, now here's where it's going to get weird and creepy. Okay, but that was all necessary background.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  So we think that information is this abstract thing. We think it's like not physical, right? It's in the realm of ideas.

• 1:20:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  But what this equation is saying is the following.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  That if you amass enough data, like on these huge server farms that we have in Silicon Valley, that we have in China, right?

• 1:21:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  And you're amassing not bytes or megabytes, not terabytes, petabytes, whatever, right? Of data.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  And you erase all that data?

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  You're gonna have to give off a shit ton of energy. That's what Landauer's equation is saying. Is that if you erase a large amount of data, terabytes of data, there's a significant measurable energy release that's gonna take place. Now, according to E equals mc squared, right? The interconvertibility of matter and energy.

• 1:21:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  What does that mean, conversely? It means that if energy comes out of the computer when the data is released, terabytes and terabytes on some server, right?

• 1:21:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  What was it when it was inside the computer? Mass. It was mass.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  So it's been proposed that we could weigh a hard drive

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  before data is encoded on it.

• 1:22:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  And then again, after data is encoded on it.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Or take a hard drive that has data encoded on it, weigh it, erase the data, and then weigh it again.

• 1:22:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  There will be a mass differential.

• 1:22:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  So there's mass inside a computer that's not anything to do with the microchips or the transistors or magnetic tapes or anything. It's a hidden mass.

• 1:22:27Danny Jones?

  This has been done, this weighing?

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  No, here's why. Because currently, according to Landauer's equation, if you were to calculate the mass of all of the information in the world today, on all of the largest server farms that we have in here and, you know, that AI is being run off of in China. The total mass, according to that equation, comes to one kilogram, less than one kilogram. Less than one kilogram. Meaning that we don't have sensitive enough weighing equipment to weigh a hard drive, let alone even a server, right? I mean, we couldn't even weigh a server, let alone a hard drive. Because the mass currently is too little.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  However, the rate of data increase per year, the rate at which we're accumulating information per year is approximately 25%, okay? And if you think about where we're going technologically, we're headed toward this technological singularity, where we're going to have artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence inside of robots, like the Tesla robots. We're going to have these systems constantly accumulating all kinds of data, right? And so it stands to reason that as we approach the technological singularity, the rate of

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  data increase per year is going to exponentially take off way beyond 25%, maybe close to 100%. But get this, even if it were to stay 25%, which it won't, but even if it were, I did the calculations, they're in my book, Satanian. In something like 340 years, the amount of information that will exist in the world, at current rate of data production, will equal the mass of the moon. Now, go back to our conversation about the moon. The moon was brought here to terraform the planet, potentially. In other words, the moon has massive gravitational effects on the earth. Massive.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  It took us from having eight-hour days to having 24-hour days. It controls the ocean tides. It's responsible for the tilt of the earth's axis. The moon has tremendous gravitational pull on the earth, and the moon only weighs 1.23% of the mass of the earth. It weighs only...

• 1:24:47Danny Jones?

  And what's the size, what's the size comparison from the moon to the earth?

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  I don't have the number.

• 1:24:52Danny Jones?

  Can you find it, Steve?

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  So

• 1:24:56Danny Jones?

  1.23% mass.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Mass of the Earth. Okay, so get this, I did the calculations. And something like, I think it was like 340 years from now, something like that. We're gonna wind up with a mass equivalent.

• 1:25:14Danny Jones?

  The moon is one quarter the size of the Earth in diameter.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so isn't that weird also, by the way?

• 1:25:20Danny Jones?

  Find the mass, see if chat GPT will give you the mass.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  No, you would need to, the percentage of the mass of the Earth.

• 1:25:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, right, the moon is approximately 27% the size of the Earth in diameter, volume.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  1.23.

• 1:25:32Danny Jones?

  Has a volume of about 2%, right?

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  1.23. 1.23 is the specific number. Anyway, so listen, I did these calculations, Danny.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  So it says to illustrate if the Earth were hollow, it would take 15 moons to fill it, but it's one, it's less than 2% the volume.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, which by the way, doesn't make sense in and of itself, in terms of, you know.

• 1:25:57Danny Jones?

  The moon would have to be hollow.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Anyway, I did these calculations.

• 1:26:03Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Something like 340 years from now.

• 1:26:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  There's gonna be a moon's worth of mass in the data centers on the Earth.

• 1:26:14Danny Jones?

  The Earth is gonna weigh about a moon more than it weighs now.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  It'll start to tear apart the planet. Imagine if you were to take the moon, look, the moon is at a certain distance from us, right? It's pretty far.

• 1:26:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  And from that distance, it's having this massive gravitational effect on us.

• 1:26:30Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Imagine you took the moon's mass and you distribute it to Silicon Valley, to the major data centers of China. You put that mass right on the surface of the Earth. It will start generating tidal forces toward that gravity well.

• 1:26:44Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  It will start attracting objects toward the gravity well. Okay, I realize this sounds bizarre, but metal chairs and knives and forks will start to go toward servers.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  The servers will become a gravity well. There will be so much mass inside them that it's as if the moon is on the surface of the earth. It gets worse.

• 1:27:06Danny Jones?

  So all the data on earth right now, if you could combine all of it.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Less than one kilogram.

• 1:27:11Danny Jones?

  Less than a kilogram.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  But because the exponential rate of data increase is so high.

• 1:27:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Twenty-five percent per year right now.

• 1:27:17Danny Jones?

  In three hundred something years.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  In three hundred something years, we're gonna wind up with a moon's mass worth of data on the earth. And what's worse is that like twenty years after that, I think it was twenty years exactly after that. We wind up with an earth's worth of mass on the earth. It will go from weighing equal to the moon to weighing equal to the earth itself. Which means at that point, the planet would be completely torn apart.

• 1:27:37Danny Jones?

  Unless we can find another way to store data.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:27:40Danny Jones?

  Like off the earth, maybe, or?

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Sure, sure.

• 1:27:42Danny Jones?

  Or in, maybe we like tap into, you know, some sort of consciousness and we store everything there.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  You could build supermassive structures out of like nanomaterials and whatever potentially to do something like this.

• 1:27:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  Here's what, I wanna go somewhere else with this. Where I wanna go with this is simulation theory, right? So, so think a little bit about this, like. You accumulate this much data, and this is what it would do to the earth, right? And, um, you, uh, so you, i- if you weigh a hard drive before you record data on it, it weighs less than after you record data on it.

• 1:28:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  But we can't see this mass. I mean, you, you opening up, suppose you're one of these very technically adept computer geeks. And you take the, uh, you know, you take the screwdriver to your computer opener. Where the fuck is the mass? You can't see it.

• 1:28:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Even in these giant servers, three hundred forty years from now, once there's a moon's worth of mass in terms of information on the earth.

• 1:28:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  You can't see it inside the servers. Is there any other example of mass that we can't see? In the universe?

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's called dark matter. Okay.

• 1:29:00Danny Jones?

  I got it.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Here's where it gets creepy, man. Here's where it gets really creepy. So how was dark matter discovered? It was discovered through three different types of experiments in the 1970s. First, in the early 1970s, when we started to be able to observe galaxies, we noticed that they don't obey the spin rate that they should according to Newtonian mechanics. According to Newtonian physics,

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  since most of the mass of the galaxy is concentrated toward the center of the galaxy, the inside of a galaxy should be spinning at a faster rate than the outer arms are. That's not what we see. We see a mostly even spin rate in galaxies. So that really got physicists scratching their head like, what? This suggests, for most of the visible galaxy to be spinning at the same rate, it would mean that there's a lot of mass outside of the galaxy that's distorting or flattening the spin rate.

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• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Then they did another kind of, they made another kind of observation of distant galaxies that has to do with the refraction of light. So, you know, we have galaxies that are further from us and galaxies that are closer to us. And the mass of the galaxies closer to us bends the light of the galaxies that are far from us. So based on how, at what angle the light is bent as it reaches our telescopes from distant galaxies, we can estimate the weight, the mass of the galaxies that are closer to us. You follow?

• 1:31:33Danny Jones?

  I mean, kind of.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  You've got galaxies that are far, far from us, right? We're trying to look at them.

• 1:31:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, the galaxies have different masses and they bend light.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  The light coming from them is bent by the galaxies that are closer to us.

• 1:31:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I understand that, yeah.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  It's like they're going around the rim of a black hole. It bends the light, right?

• 1:31:49Danny Jones?

  Right, right, okay.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  So, they observed this and they said, "Wait, this doesn't make any sense. We know the mass of such and such galaxy. It's bending the light much more severely than it should based on what we think that galaxy weighs." So then they did a third observation where they said, "Okay, well, maybe there's gas. Maybe there's a bunch of gas in these galaxies that's giving them more mass than we can see."

• 1:32:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  So they looked at the same galaxies with spectrometers that can detect gas and estimate the masses of gas. Nope, doesn't account for anywhere near the amount that this light is bent by.

• 1:32:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  So, putting these, and these observations were all made in the 70s. The first one in the early 70s, the second in the mid to late 70s. Putting all three of these together, they came to the conclusion that there's a ton of mass around these galaxies that we can't see. It's not electromagnetically detectable. And yet, it has massive gravitational effects. Okay?

• 1:32:48Danny Jones?

  What does that mean?

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  So, well, look, the amount of mass that we can't see, that we can't electromagnetically observe, that ensconces galaxies, surrounds them, is such that it flattens the spin rate of a galaxy. The inside should be spinning much faster than the outside, and yet it's spinning at the same rate.

• 1:33:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  So it's a ton of mass. It's not electromagnetically observable, but it's so gravitationally powerful that it's altering the spin rate of a whole galaxy.

• 1:33:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  Okay, well, so we have a form of mass that we can't detect electromagnetically, and yet it has massive gravitational effects.

• 1:33:26Danny Jones?

  It's dark matter, right?

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  That's what's inside your computer.

• 1:33:31Danny Jones?

  Dark matter.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Information is dark matter. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. And, once you realize that, one of the first people who I think realized this was John Archibald Wheeler. I think he worked at Princeton. American physicist John Archibald Wheeler. He made this formulation, "it from bit," okay? He said, "Look, if we want to say that information is a third state of matter and energy," in other words, that it's not only the case that, as Einstein realized, matter and energy are interconvertible.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  Matter and energy are both also interconvertible with information, so when you delete the data on the computer, it increases entropy by giving off energy. So you have three terms in this relation. It's not just matter and energy. It's matter, energy, and information. And they're all interconvertible into each other. And the kind of matter that information is before you delete it is dark matter. You cannot electromagnetically detect it, but it has massive gravitational effects, when it gets dense enough, when it reaches a critical mass. So Wheeler said, John Archibald Wheeler, "Well, why don't we just say that energy and matter are forms of information?

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  And that we live in an informational cosmos, and it, things, solid things, come from bit. It from bit."

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  Well, that's very useful in terms of reconciling, for example, physics with parapsychology. Right? I mean, one of the reasons why parapsychology has been marginalized for so many decades is because no one's been able to come up with a physical model that can explain telepathy and clairvoyance and precognition. And a lot of physicists have tried, Dean Radin, for example. Somebody came from out of the physics community relatively recently, tried to model psi, you know, in a rigorous enough framework to accommodate quantum theory and so forth.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  But no one's been able to do it. Well, if you change your paradigm, and you consider that actually we're living in an information matrix, and that what we think of as matter and energy are forms of information, then the data from parapsychology makes a lot more sense. Because an information system is one where consciousness is fundamental and intrinsic. An information processing system is one that's meant to have meaning for minds. You're not starting from physics, from protons, electrons, and neutrons, dead unconscious matter, and trying to build up to consciousness from that, and figure out how consciousness interacts with that.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  You're starting from the understanding that we live in an information processing system. And by the way, this suddenly then makes sense of all the paradoxes of quantum theory, like the wave-particle duality. So you know this, the double slit experiment?

• 1:36:45Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  Why would it be the case that only if you turn on a detector, meaning that there's a person observing the experiment, even if you observe, observation means checking the data that was recorded later.

• 1:36:59Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  It's still observation.

• 1:37:00Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  Why would it be the case that only when you turn on the detector, you make an observation, do you get a particle with a distinct location? And before that, it's a waveform, meaning it's a probability distribution of something that could be a particle?

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  In computer science, they call that rendering optimization. It's used in video games all the time.

• 1:37:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Things that aren't being looked at aren't rendered. It conserves processing power.

• 1:37:26Danny Jones?

  Right. That supports the simulation theory.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:37:30Danny Jones?

  That we're living inside of a computer program.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  And so what is dark matter?

• 1:37:34Danny Jones?

  Dark matter is the program that we're living in.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the dark matter around the galaxy is the one that we have physically observed through all these different observational mechanisms, telescopes and so forth. It's a computational cloud. It's a computational cloud around the galaxy. And it's probably projecting what we see and experience. We're detecting the computational system when we detect dark matter, which nobody seems to know what the fuck it is.

• 1:38:12Danny Jones?

  What you're saying is the same thing as data.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Information.

• 1:38:16Danny Jones?

  That we store, information that is stored on hard drives.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  So yeah, this is in my book, Satanian. And the chapter is called catastrophic information because there's a physicist recently who's looked at all of this. And he conceptualizes this as an information catastrophe. Melvin Vopson, he's working at a university in Britain, I believe. He's, I think Romanian originally, but he's working in UK. And he calls it the information catastrophe because, look, at a certain point, we're going to reach a critical mass of data, which will have geophysically catastrophic effects. Oh, here's the other thing.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  So I investigated what would be the geophysical effects of reaching a critical mass of data. Guess what? It turns out to be every single catastrophe that's been held responsible for the destruction of Atlantis.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  So all these, you have all these theorists from like Plato, all the way way back Plato, to Senator Ignatius Donnelly in the 1800s with his book Atlantis, the Antediluvian World, to Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, all these people talking about the various catastrophes.

• 1:39:44Danny Jones?

  Don't forget Flynn Dibble.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  The various catastrophes that might have destroyed the civilization. And by the way, just on a quick, quick, quick side note, you cannot argue with 1,300 ton megaliths in Balbek, Lebanon, which are fitted together with razor precision and you can't even slip a razor blade between the joint. You cannot argue with that, okay? Or those, exactly. Egyptians had those too. And you know, who knows who they got them from?

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  And with what tools they were made.

• 1:40:16Danny Jones?

  Perfectly symmetrical. How they made on a computer.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this civilization existed, okay? And there are all these geophysical catastrophes that have been postulated as the cause for the destruction of this worldwide, highly advanced technical culture, right? Guess what? If you wind up with a moon's mass worth of data at Silicon Valley or in China, you know what winds up happening? Every single thing that anyone's ever held responsible for the destruction of Atlantis. Number one, the crust sinks underneath the data center. Number two, it creates a tidal force like the moon does, so the oceans get pulled in toward the data center. Crust sinks, there's a massive flood.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  It causes earthquakes because it activates the gravitational pull from the servers, activates all the tectonic plates. So you wind up also with massive earthquakes. The same gravitational pull sets off volcanoes. So you get volcanoes going off all over the planet. Potentially, the gravitational disturbance would also even tilt the axis of the earth, which is something that many people from Charles Hapgood onward have postulated was responsible for the destruction of Atlantis. That potentially Atlantis was Antarctica, that's one theory, and that it was suddenly pulled into the South Polar region due to a crustal slippage. Well, that's also something that would happen.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  So I mapped out what would be the geophysical implications of such a critical mass of data. And it's every single thing that anyone's ever thought destroyed Atlantis. Not one or the other of them, all of them at once. So then you gotta wonder, what actually destroyed that civilization? Could it be?

• 1:41:58Danny Jones?

  Hard drives.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  You know, it sounds funny, man, but you know, it look, it stands to reason. If we're headed for an information catastrophe, what if it crept up on them without them realizing what they were doing? And that's what actually destroyed that civilization.

• 1:42:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God. I had, um, I had this guy on here from the NSA, Tom Drake, and he was explaining that they have. What was, do you remember, Steve, what he said? He said they have like acres and acres out in the desert somewhere. I want to say like in Nevada or in Wyoming. It was somewhere in the Midwest where they have just like farms after farms after farms of these, of these massive hard drives that are collecting all of the surveillance data that they're using.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:42:45Danny Jones?

  From satellites, from, from phones, from literally every single, every single potential way that NSA can collect data on people.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  So Utah?

• 1:42:54Danny Jones?

  Is it? Yeah, Utah, that's it. The Utah data center known as the, uh, the Bumbler Heave location. The facility spans 1 million square feet and includes 100,000 square feet tier, tier three mission critical data center. Designed to store vast amounts of data estimated to be on the order of exabytes or larger to support comprehensive national security initiative. Data center uses the Cray XC30 supercomputer capable of scaling workloads of more than 100 petaflops or 100 trillion calculations each second. Look at the pictures. Can you pull up a photo of it like on, uh, images?

• 1:43:36Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm on brave right here. Oh, absolutely not.

• 1:43:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's terrible.

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  Here, I, I'll get it for you.

• 1:43:44Danny Jones?

  Crazy.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not gonna wanna, you know, have detailed photography of that site available. I bet you if you Google image search that, you'd be one of these places that's locked out.

• 1:43:54Danny Jones?

  Is that it?

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  That's it under construction.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  It's only recently constructed, I think.

• 1:44:02Danny Jones?

  And that's another thing is that-

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  So this crust is gonna sink under that one day.

• 1:44:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  If this theory is correct.

• 1:44:11Danny Jones?

  Or it's gonna create, it's gonna start, it's gonna become a magnetic anomaly and

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:44:16Danny Jones?

  Throw off the spin of the earth somehow?

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  That's right, that's right. You know, so there'd be early warning signs, compasses would start malfunctioning in the vicinity of it.

• 1:44:27Danny Jones?

  This is so crazy, man.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  So how did we get here? You asked me what would be the effect of knowing the deepest, darkest secrets on somebody, let's say, in the NSA, who has that level of clearance, somebody inside Lockheed who has that level of clearance, right? Even IBM. IBM's done a lot of dark shit. IBM, you know, IBM made the punch card computer equipment.

• 1:44:50Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  It allowed the Nazis to process Jews through the concentration camps.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 1:44:56Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, there's a lot of companies that were still around today that had a lot, did a lot of dark shit with the Nazis, right?

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:03Danny Jones?

  But those people are all dead and like the company's still alive.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Sure. The question is, is the idea dead? And that really speaks to what you asked me.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  Look, it's one thing, what does it do to your worldview to know that there are people living in underground cities on Mars? Or to know that the moon is an artificial satellite?

• 1:45:21Danny Jones?

  Right. And you're one of like a dozen people on Earth who have this information.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. But it's another thing if what you know is that we're living in a simulation. And not only are we living in a simulation, we're living in a simulation with a computational ceiling. Meaning that it's inbuilt.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  That we cannot exceed a certain level of data production. You understand, that's a cap on our civilization. It means that, I mean, you, look, remember, people talk about the Cardassian scale. You ever heard about the Cardassian scale?

• 1:45:54Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  Michio Kaku used to talk about it a lot. Not that I want to reference Michio Kaku because his con artistry promoting, you know, string theory really damaged the physics community for decades. But Michio Kaku is somebody who

• 1:46:09Danny Jones?

  He wasn't the only one.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  He brought back, brought back this idea of the Cardassian scale.

• 1:46:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  This Russian scientist who basically came up with this scale of the level of civilization, type one, type two, type three, based on their amount of energy usage.

• 1:46:22Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  But the thing about the Cardassian scale is that, okay, you, one metric is energy usage, but another is the level of data production. Right? So we're living in a simulacrum that doesn't allow anyone to even become a type 2 Carteshev civilization, which by the way, would explain why they're, look, these skeptics always say, where are all the aliens? How come there are no aliens here?

• 1:46:50Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah, Fermi paradox.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, they never, when they keep citing the Fermi paradox, they like to turn a blind eye to the UFO phenomenon. But even if you consider all the data of the UFO phenomenon, there's actually no really hard evidence that anyone's coming here from outside our solar system.

• 1:47:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:08Speaker 01

  There isn't.

• 1:47:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  And these entities, at least the ones who seem to be in charge, look human.

• 1:47:13Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  And the little grays, those are humanoid robots.

• 1:47:18Danny Jones?

  That's what Stephen Greer said. I'm sure you've heard of Mike Masters, you've read his books.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  Of course, of course.

• 1:47:22Danny Jones?

  That's the best, that is the best, most comprehensive explanation as to why these things are.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  My problem with Mike Masters is that he adheres to the block universe idea of the way time is, closed, time-like curves. He thinks it's not possible to change history when you time travel. Whereas I've made extensive arguments.

• 1:47:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, like timelines?

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  Yes, and that would mean...

• 1:47:42Danny Jones?

  Like multiverse?

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Yes. According to how Mike Masters understands the dynamics of time travel, we would not have any free will. We would be living in a universe where the future is already determined. Anyway, that's a metaphysical argument for us philosophers.

• 1:47:56Danny Jones?

  Sure, but generally, the idea coming from an anthropological background is that for a being to come from another star system, or another Goldilocks planet, to have two arms, two legs, upright hominid, brains on top of the eyes, it would have to be the exact same conditions that Earth is under with the atmosphere, with everything like that. And it would be like, as to how rare we are on Earth, we're like 0001% of the species on Earth that look the way we do, and we're able to develop technology, get off the Earth. So you extrapolate that into the universe, it's like virtually impossible to have another being that looks so similar to us.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  I find that a useful argument, because I actually do think that we're dealing with descendants of the human race and other versions of the human race in this phenomenon. However, I have to say, in defense of Greer, I watched some of your interview with him, not all of it. And he did bring up a point that was legitimate, but he expressed it in a way where I think he wasn't making himself clear. Remember why he came back and said to you, "No, actually, it's very likely that there will be humanoid life on another..."

• 1:49:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Here's what he was trying to say. Rupert Sheldrake-

• 1:49:06Danny Jones?

  He said something about, um...

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  Morphic resonance.

• 1:49:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Rupert Sheldrake, British biologist, who has looked at a lot of different empirical evidence for another form of causality in nature besides efficient causality. Efficient causality is like billiard ball causality. Bing bang bong, you know? Things colliding with each other on an atomic, subatomic level.

• 1:49:32Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  Right? Now, the view that the whole universe works only according to efficient causality, the materialist reductionist mechanistic model of the universe, is only a couple hundred years old.

• 1:49:44Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Back in the day, even in the Renaissance, let alone in classical antiquity, when people like Aristotle were formulating how the universe functions, there were other forms of causality, like formal causes, where forms were considered a cause, a shaping influence that

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  guided biological and physical development. Okay? So form was considered a type of cause in and of itself. And in Aristotelian view of the world, there are also final causes, in other words, purposes in nature, that, you know, embedded in the seed of a plant is a purpose to become a certain type of plant.

• 1:50:30Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  There, and to absorb light from the sun and to alter the nutrients of the earth that the plant is growing in and to grow fruit that nourishes people is part of the purpose of a plant.

• 1:50:43Danny Jones?

  Kind of like the soul of something.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, the aim, the aim of something.

• 1:50:48Danny Jones?

  The soul of an axe is to chop.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  The aim of something.

• 1:50:51Danny Jones?

  The aim, okay.

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  Part of the soul of the plant is also the form of the plant.

• 1:50:55Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  The form, and they thought that forms were causes. So you had, in Aristotle, you had a material cause, which is what something's made of. Then you have the formal cause, which is like what the thing is supposed, what shape the thing is supposed to take. And it's embedded in the seed.

• 1:51:11Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  And then you have the purpose of the thing. And then efficient causality, which is the only one we're left with in modern physics, is just how these other causes shape the thing.

• 1:51:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  And that's all we're left with in, in modern physics. What Rupert Sheldrake found is lots of evidence for formal causes. And he calls it formative causation or morphic resonance. Morphe is the Greek for form. Okay, morphic resonance, resonance of form or formative causation. So for example, this is what Greer was trying to get across. It turns out that in a pharmaceutical laboratory, when you try to crystallize a, a compound for the first time, to make a drug, let's say, right? The first time you try to crystallize a chemical compound, it takes a very long time to cohere. It's very hit and miss and takes a long time to cohere, to crystallize.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  The second time you try to synthesize that compound in a completely different laboratory, let's say on the other side of the planet, it forms instant.

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  Much faster.

• 1:52:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:20Speaker 01

  So it's as if when something works and takes shape in a certain way for the first time, something about the world remembers that it works that way. And so the second time it's attempted, it takes that shape much more quickly. It's a resonance of form across space and time, irrespective of space and time. And there have been a lot of evidence that has been found in biology where they call it convergent evolution also. This is another name for this, convergent evolution, where you have two completely distinct species, like let's say a species of dolphin.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  And then you have a certain kind of land mammal or whatever, you know? And there are certain solutions to evolutionary stresses that are arrived at in these two completely distinct species whose common ancestor is like millions of years in the past. And because it seemed to work in one species, evolution seems to, uh, evolution seems to adopt that solution in a completely unrelated species. So what Greer was suggesting is that if these, if this type of causation, morphic resonance

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  or formative causation, works irrespective of spacetime, it could be the case that on planets that are slightly different from ours, I mean, not so radically different that they, you know, you don't have anything more complex than bacteria, but in a planet slightly different than from ours, because the anthropoid form worked here, or maybe worked on Mars 100 million years ago, the memory of the cosmos stores that solution and implements it again as an efficient solution in a different evolutionary context.

• 1:54:22Danny Jones?

  You're talking about like the dark matter memory?

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  Well, I'm saying it's that.

• 1:54:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  Sheldon Drake is an Anglican Christian. I got into an exchange with him once.

• 1:54:29Danny Jones?

  You're combining your theory with it.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  So Sheldon Drake wouldn't want to believe this, right? He thinks the, he thinks these forms exist in the mind of God, basically. He won't say that as a biologist, okay? But he's an Anglican Christian, so he thinks these forms, this, this memory that stores evolutionary solutions, or stores suitable pharmaceutical, like, crystallization formulas. He thinks that's like in the mind of God, basically. I think it's in the simulation. It's a computer system. When something works, the system remembers.

• 1:55:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  And it's not going to waste processing power. Next time it sees something as grappling with the same problems, it remembers, oh, here was a solution to that, let me implement it again.

• 1:55:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  So what Greer was trying to say is that it could just turn out that the two arms, two legs, brain on top of it, is a very efficient solution.

• 1:55:18Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  And so the system remembers that, and it implements that solution on another planet, you know, in another galaxy, right? Halfway across the universe. Okay, so that's possible. That's a possible.

• 1:55:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the word he used was, he tried to use the word quantum entanglement for saying that. Anyways, I gotta take a leak real quick.

• 1:55:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:40Danny Jones?

  Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back, folks.

• 1:55:44Danny Jones?

  All right, we're back. We were getting deep. Where were we?

• 1:55:47Speaker 01

  We were, we were in dark matter.

• 1:55:50Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes. Okay, dark matter and we were in the resonic, or morphic resonance.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  Morphic resonance. Okay, yes, we were talking about morphic resonance because, you know.

• 1:56:00Danny Jones?

  So saying like how a monkey can figure out how to make a tool in Australia and simultaneously it happens in North America at the same time.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  The 100th monkey phenomenon. Look, they found this with rats too. They would run rats through mazes where, you know, they're shocked or rewarded depending on whether they, you know, can navigate the maze successfully.

• 1:56:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  And they run the same kind of test with a completely different group of rats in a different country.

• 1:56:25Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  And if the first group of, the first set of rats learns the maze successfully, the second set of rats in a different country picks up where the other group left off in their learning curve. So it suggests that there is this morphic resonance.

• 1:56:42Danny Jones?

  Also, I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but there was also studies that were done where they taught the rats the mazes and then they like chopped out a portion of their brain and they were able to accurately figure out the maze again after, or they flipped their brain upside down, like completely scrambled their brains and they remembered.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, Carl, Carl Priebrum studied this in, I think, the 1980s, 70s, 80s, Carl Priebrum. And he developed what's called the holographic brain theory.

• 1:57:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:57:16Speaker 01

  That information is encoded in the brain, including, you know, skills are encoded in the brain, both, both content memory and behavioral memory in a way that's similar to how an image is encoded in a hologram.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  You can slice up the hologram any number of times, a true hologram. The one, the kind that you need a laser beam to shine on for the image to pop out of. Not the shitty, cheap holograms that they distribute everywhere. Like really good holograms where if you go to, I don't know, a museum or whatever exhibit and you see a super high fidelity.

• 1:57:53Danny Jones?

  Like the Tupac thing, where they got the Tupac performing in front of the crowd and they put a hologram right there. Have you seen that?

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  No, I haven't seen that.

• 1:57:59Danny Jones?

  Show them that. Show them the Tupac, the Tupac.

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  Let's not put, I don't want Tupac winding up in the middle of this podcast.

• 1:58:05Danny Jones?

  Why not? What do you got, what's your problem with Tupac, bro?

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  Anyway, listen, laser beams, laser beams, right? Are shown on a holographic film and an image pops out.

• 1:58:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Okay. Now it turns out that if you slice the hologram into fours and you shine the laser beam on any quarter of that hologram, the whole image still pops out. It's a little bit blurrier.

• 1:58:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Put it, cut it into eighths, whole image still pops out. Out of any fragment of this hologram. And what Priebram said is that the brain seems to work the same way. So that's some trauma victims, some, who have some level of physical brain damage, still remember things and have certain abilities, even though some of the parts of their brain that you would think are most relevant to that skill.

• 1:58:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  Have been physically damaged because the brain records information holographically. Now this is relevant to what we're talking about in terms of the simulation. And I mentioned this in my book, Premethism, in the chapter on the end of reality. David Bohm took this data that Carl Priebram basically analyzed in terms of how the brain works. And he applied the same model to the whole universe. And Bohm, David Bohm, the physicist. argued that certain characteristics of quantum theory, like what we discussed earlier, wave-particle duality, and also quantum entanglement, suggest that the universe

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  functions like a hologram, that we're living in a universe that has holographic properties. And Michael Talbot gave a very compelling, popular presentation of this in his book, The Holographic Universe, great, great text from the 90s. Now, that's another angle on the simulation theory, this idea that the universe, like the brain, has holographic properties. In other words, it's an information storage and processing system. And in that metaphor, the laser being shown on the holographic film is consciousness.

• 2:00:19Danny Jones?

  Laser is consciousness.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so for example, in the double slit experiment, right? When the, when the laser particle beam, whatever,

• 2:00:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  is not being observed, and it passes through the double slits and registers on the photographic film as a waveform, right? Meaning that it passed through the double slits as a probability distribution of whether it would go through one slit or the other. That's like a piece of holographic film without a laser being shown on it, where all you see are swirls in the film. In a true hologram, when you look at a holographic film, you can't see any image in it. It's a bunch of swirls.

• 2:01:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:05Speaker 01

  You need the laser beam to shine on it for the image to pop out.

• 2:01:07Danny Jones?

  I understand what you're saying.

• 2:01:08Speaker 01

  That's like observation in the double slit experiment,

• 2:01:10Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  where consciousness is akin to the laser beam that's being shown on the hologram.

• 2:01:14Danny Jones?

  That makes sense.

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  So what Bohm and then Talbot were saying is that it's consciousness that makes the universe pop out to us as a phenomenal experience, from out of code, from out of mathematical wave functions.

• 2:01:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  In an information processing system.

• 2:01:31Danny Jones?

  So then what is consciousness?

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  You ask that question on the other side of 200, 300 years of conditioning in a reductionist mechanistic physical model.

• 2:01:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:51Speaker 01

  From the time of Newton onward. Where it's expected that consciousness should be explained as a phenomenon reducible to some kind of physical mechanism. Well, if Wheeler was right in his interpretation of, you know, this information theory that we were talking about, beginning with Claude Shannon, continuing with Rolf Landauer, if Wheeler's interpretation that it comes-

• 2:02:15Danny Jones?

  What was Wheeler's first name?

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  John, John Archibald Wheeler.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  Okay, by the way, he had security clearances and worked with people deep in the deep state, including on the UFO subject secretly. So this goes to your question, like, what does it do to your worldview when you know this shit about how the universe works?

• 2:02:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Right? Then not only are we living under the Death Star, but actually we're living inside a simulation? What does that do to your view of the world and your sense of ethics?

• 2:02:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  But point being, if you, you ask, what is consciousness, coming from out of this physicalist reductionist conditioning, this established mechanistic paradigm we've been living in for 200, 300 years.

• 2:02:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Well, if Wheeler is correct and it comes from bit, it's a nonsensical question. What is consciousness? Consciousness is an irreducible precondition of any physical phenomenon whatsoever. The uni- the, the existence of any other experienceable phenomena is predicated on the fact of consciousness.

• 2:03:22Speaker 01

  If we're living in an information processing system, Danny, right?

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  For whom is the information being processed? And the information processing system is there to render meaningful content to a mind or to minds.

• 2:03:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  Meaning the consciousness is intrinsic to the system.

• 2:03:42Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  And by the way, that should be the intuitively

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  correct view. Like, this is some bizarre, counterintuitive thing, to imagine that consciousness is some derivative phenomenon that needs to be explained in terms of gears and like billiard balls. That we need to build consciousness up from out of mechanistic physics. That's not intuitive at all.

• 2:04:08Danny Jones?

  What do you make of Jung's idea of consciousness? How he explained it as like this archipelago? He explained consciousness, human consciousness, as like this giant, connected, big thing, this big rock, or big island, or whatever, and there's water above it. And there's all these little islands sticking out. We are each individual islands of our own consciousness, our own ego, or whatever. But below the ocean, it's like this, it's this whole archipelago island that's connected. Right? And it's all one thing.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  People say these things about Jung.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  When you actually look into Jung, it's a little bit more nuanced than that. And it's connected to other ideas that are more complex and more disturbing. So what you're talking about is the collective unconscious, what Jung called the collective unconscious. Okay?

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  But what often isn't quoted from out of Jung is that Jung believed that different races had different collective unconsciences. So he's not talking about the collective of humanity. He makes this point very distinctly. That, for example, the German people have Wotan, or Odin, as an archetype that guides their collective unconscious. The Germanic collective unconscious. So, you know,

• 2:05:24Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:05:25Speaker 01

  As World War II was starting, Jung wrote about how he thought that the Nazis exploding onto the world stage were an eruption from out of the collective unconscious of the Germanic people. And that it was the god Odin as an archetype, coming back into the world. And this idea is not unique to Jung, and he didn't come up with it. Actually, if you dig deeper into the German intellectual history. You find this in the philosophy of mind of Hegel, Georg Hegel. Who you want, you want to think, talk about somebody hard to read. I mean Hegel, man, like.

• 2:06:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:02Speaker 01

  There's, there's no more cryptic and dense writer, probably in the entire human intellectual history than that fucker. But I've worked through some of Hegel. And in his philosophy of mind, it's very clear that one of the things he's saying is that different races, closely knit ethnic groups

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  have something like unconscious telepathy going on.

• 2:06:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  And actually, you can see this very clearly in isolated tribes. People who've done anthropological research

• 2:06:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  on tribes in Australia or in certain parts of Africa have seen that not only is there telepathy connecting members in the tribe, there's a lot of clairvoyance and stuff too. Like they, they, they function, you know, primitive tribes function in a way similar to schools of fish or flocks of birds.

• 2:06:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:06:54Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 2:06:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:55Speaker 01

  And so an extension of that is that even as civilization arises, certain closely knit ethnic groups share a collective unconscious. So Jung wasn't saying that like unsam kumbaya mystical level were all one.

• 2:07:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  He was describing properties of the collective unconscious of different groups of people.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  But it could be that that's a nested hierarchy, you know, a nested hierarchy. In other words, you have very tightly knit collective unconsciences of different races.

• 2:07:25Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:07:25Speaker 01

  But then there is a level of kind of telepathic communication among humanity in general.

• 2:07:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  And, and this goes to morphic resonance, where we're saying about morphic resonance earlier. So that if there were humans somewhere else, like let's say there are also humans on Mars, there might be a kind of telepathic link between humans on Earth and humans on Mars. That is not in any way, shape or form saying that all sentient life in the universe is fundamentally interconnected. Which is a claim a lot of sort of new age

• 2:07:58Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 2:07:58Speaker 01

  people want to make.

• 2:07:59Danny Jones?

  That makes sense.

• 2:08:00Speaker 01

  We're all one, and it's all one, and it's all God and whatever.

• 2:08:03Danny Jones?

  That makes sense.

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  The collective unconscious is actually a testable claim. It's hard to test, but it's a reasonable postulate in psychology and anthropology.

• 2:08:16Danny Jones?

  What do you think makes some of these individuals who are able to do some of this consciousness stuff, like whether it be people in the Stargate program doing remote viewing, or whether it be some of these folks that these whistleblowers are talking about doing these psionic psychic takeovers of UFOs? Is there something fundamental about certain people that gives them this ability? Like, I know, for example, this guy David Morehouse came in here, he got shot in the head, right? A stray bullet hit him in the helmet, like knocked him unconscious, and he had severe TBI. And that's when they admitted him to the Stargate program.

• 2:08:57Danny Jones?

  Like, so, but other people seem to, like Ingo Swan, or like Uri Geller, seem to be just like innately born with this ability.

• 2:09:05Speaker 01

  I think there are three different things going on. First of all, Gary Nolan claims that the research he's done, in the research he's done at Stanford, that he's found that there are structural properties of the brains of these people.

• 2:09:19Danny Jones?

  The basal ganglia.

• 2:09:20Speaker 01

  Yes, involving the basal ganglia that are significantly different from the average in the population. So there could be elements of the physiological development of the brain, which is genetic.

• 2:09:36Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  And to some extent, environmental.

• 2:09:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  That, I say to some extent environmental because like radiation, for example, can mutate people, right? It can mutate their brain development.

• 2:09:47Danny Jones?

  And also, I think Michael Herrera was saying that some of the people that they got on that mission, like, had just survived an earthquake in Indonesia.

• 2:09:56Speaker 01

  Well, that comes to another reason, another factor. That's a distinct factor.

• 2:09:59Danny Jones?

  I would imagine that that was because they were not a part of this civilized, technical world that we live in, they're more in tune to nature.

• 2:10:08Speaker 01

  Okay, in that case, there are four factors. Good, very good point. This goes back to the Australian aborigines and the people, tribes in Africa that I was just referencing. So four different factors. One, so Gary Nolan's research suggests that there are physical differences in the brains of these people. They're slight, but they're significant, involving the, you know, significant to the level of psychic ability that someone demonstrates, and it involves the basal ganglia. Another factor is trauma.

• 2:10:40Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  And we're gonna come back to that.

• 2:10:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  There's definitely a huge correlation.

• 2:10:44Danny Jones?

  I've talked a lot about that with Jeff Kreppel.

• 2:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's definitely a huge correlation between trauma, especially trauma from childhood, and the degree of someone's extrasensory perception.

• 2:10:55Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  Another factor is level of civilization, which you were just referencing, that there's a clear correlation between the rise of technical intellect, the hypertrophy of our analytical mind, and the atrophy of psychic abilities.

• 2:11:13Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  I talk about this in my first book, Prometheus and Atlas, that it's very obvious studying primitive tribes, that they have much stronger psychic abilities, which stands to reason because animals have much stronger psychic abilities than humans. Studies on dogs, and on horses, and on fish, and on birds, have shown that they have much stronger psychic abilities than humans. So it stands to reason that primitive tribes, who are still living close to nature, also would not have experienced an atrophy of their psychic abilities because they're relying more on analytical reasoning and on the technology that comes from it.

• 2:11:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11:50Speaker 01

  Right? So as we've separated ourselves from nature, both through analytical thinking and through material technologies that do shit for us, this is atrophy.

• 2:12:00Danny Jones?

  It's interesting, I've heard people who've come on the podcast describe the experience of going down to like the Amazon rainforest and being down there for weeks, or even months, and they're saying, once you're down there, isolated from this hyper-evolved, technical world we live in, in America, and you get out of it into nature out there, something happens to you where your body just becomes in tune with the jungle, where you, it's weird where you can sense dangers, like, not just, I'm not talking about ESP-type stuff, where I'm saying like, There's something built into us, like deep, buried deep inside of us, where we automatically can like sense the way the birds are chirping that there's danger near, right? Little thing, like little

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:12:45Danny Jones?

  Things in nature that we didn't even know were there inside of us.

• 2:12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, people say, getting in touch with your instincts. What does that mean?

• 2:12:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:12:53Danny Jones?

  Sure, it's like some deep evolution that's, that's in us that comes out when we're put back in those environments.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  Someone who wrote a lot about this in a, in a fairly sophisticated way was the French philosopher Henri Bergson. Bergson was an early 20th century philosopher, who also, by the way, got involved with the League of Nations and he, you know, the organization that today is called UNESCO, the United Nations, United Nations Educational and Scientific Organization, UNESCO, which Trump is defunding.

• 2:13:23Speaker 01

  I don't blame him, given what UNESCO has become. But back in the day, before the UN was even formed and it was still the League of Nations, remember the predecessor organization? Bergson helped set up, and I think, yeah, he was the first director, or he was a director of UNESCO. So he was not just a philosopher, like, you know, in an ivory tower. He made a big impact on public intellectual culture. Anyway, Bergson, in his book Creative Evolution, and also in his book Matter and Memory, he discusses the evolutionary bifurcation of intellect and instinct. And he shows how various species that operate entirely on instinct,

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  because of their morphological structure, because the way their bodies are constructed, like certain insects, they don't have the potential to develop technology. Because their bodies are too well-suited to grappling with their environment. It's like they're born ready to handle the world.

• 2:14:25Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  Humans are born crippled.

• 2:14:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  And therefore, we need technology.

• 2:14:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  And so, we, as we develop technology and as we develop the model building intellectually that allows us to engineer technology, in other words, as we develop a scientific analytical mindset, our instinct atrophies. So there's this evolutionary bifurcation between instinct, I'm sorry, intuition, sorry, no, instinct and intellect. And what Bergson says is that what we call intuition,

• 2:15:03Speaker 01

  Is the resurgence of instinct in the context of a life form with a dominant analytical intellect.

• 2:15:10Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:15:11Speaker 01

  So our intuition is us getting back in touch with the instinct that these other animals operated according.

• 2:15:16Danny Jones?

  Isn't that interesting too, like with human beings, how long it takes us from birth to to be to be able to survive in the environment? Like, we're literally helpless for years.

• 2:15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. And that goes to the heart of the myth of Prometheus that's been central to all of my work. Because, you know, one of the elements of the myth of Prometheus that a lot of people neglect because they don't really, you know, look into it, just think about, oh, Prometheus stole fire from the gods

• 2:15:45Speaker 01

  to give men the power of ingenuity. Okay, that Prometheus brought this fire to be a forge for all kinds of technical innovation and invention, right? But part of the myth of Prometheus is that he, so Zeus lets Prometheus design humans. Humans are creations of Prometheus, not of Zeus in Greek mythology.

• 2:16:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:10Speaker 01

  Except Prometheus, whose name means forethought, has this forgetful brother Epimetheus. His name means afterthought. And Prometheus, Epimetheus kind of begs Prometheus to be involved in the project of the creation of man. And Prometheus subcontracts part of the design of humans to Epimetheus. Epimetheus forgets to endow humans with an essence particular to our species. So according to the Greek way of thinking, all different various animals had a species being, an essence that defines that species as what it is, gives it its purpose. Remember, we were talking about final causes earlier?

• 2:16:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:50Speaker 01

  Telos, purpose, aim of a species or an organism. So Epimetheus forgets to give a purpose, a telos, to man.

• 2:17:02Speaker 01

  It means we're not born with any purpose that's designed, that's embedded in us. The way that it is in the case of certain insects or any other non-human animals. And therefore, we're left to define our own purpose through the development and use of technology. So the human is an existentially uncompleted being.

• 2:17:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:17:29Speaker 01

  Who necessarily has to complete himself through the use of technology. This idea is at the heart of the myth of Prometheus, and it's very beautifully symbolized. Where when Prometheus finds out that shit, my dumb brother, my forgetful brother, didn't give these creatures any purpose, any essence. Athena comes and helps out. She has a special relationship with Prometheus, Athena. He tried to seduce her at one point. And Athena comes and helps out by giving man his soul in the form of a butterfly. So what substitutes what, you know, for our lacking essence is a butterfly.

• 2:18:13Speaker 01

  That's the soul of man. Well, what's a butterfly the symbol of? Metamorphosis. The caterpillar becoming the butterfly.

• 2:18:21Danny Jones?

  Is this like Marshall McLuhan? Is this tie into his idea of the electronic caterpillar?

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:18:26Danny Jones?

  Humanity, humans are basically creating this. We are like the electronic caterpillar, building technology into this.

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 2:18:38Danny Jones?

  Our purpose is to build this.

• 2:18:41Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Yes, perfectly. And so, you know, it's another way of saying that it's up to us what we make ourselves. It's up to us. We have the freedom of a butterfly. And we have the metamorphic potential of the caterpillar. And through technology without which we cannot survive, without which we wouldn't even be human. You know that. Pre-human hominids evolved into us by using technology. Fire made it easier to chew food. And the hu- the shape of the human skull changed because of that, since we didn't need huge chomper jaws anymore.

• 2:19:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  So the very morphology of the Homo sapiens was in the first place defined by a certain technological innovation. So we're intrinsically technological beings with a metamorphic potential that's unique in nature. And that means that our evolutionary horizon is open. We can decide what it is we want to become, which is very freeing, but also incredibly dangerous.

• 2:19:46Danny Jones?

  What do you make of the stoned ape hypothesis, that we ate a mushroom, which accounted for the extreme growth in our brain size?

• 2:19:53Speaker 01

  Well, that's also technae.

• 2:19:55Danny Jones?

  It is, yeah.

• 2:19:55Speaker 01

  So, you know, Heidegger uses this word technae, which comes from ancient Greek, to express the essence of technology. And it means craft. And cultivation of psychedelic substances is also craft. So, yeah, it's a form of technology. And undoubtedly, at various junctures, it contributed to the evolution of human consciousness. And probably will continue to. I mean, DMT, what, you know, we're talking about earlier, off the record.

• 2:20:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:24Speaker 01

  About experiments where people are given DMT and they look at laser beams.

• 2:20:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:29Speaker 01

  And they see the code of the matrix inside the laser beam.

• 2:20:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:20:33Speaker 01

  Well, you know, if that starts to happen on a large enough scale, and it's considered in the context of all this data that we've discussed regarding the possibility we're living in a simulation.

• 2:20:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:45Speaker 01

  That's certainly going to result in some kind of a mutation of human consciousness. Grappling with that fact existentially is going to involve or require a further evolution of human consciousness.

• 2:20:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:59Danny Jones?

  That DMT study with Danny Gohler did that. He was just on here again recently. And Andrew Gallimore did a review of it. I think he's now working with Gallimore, doing further studies of it.

• 2:21:11Speaker 01

  I found out about it through reading Gallimore.

• 2:21:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so Gallimore is doing the DMTX, Extended State DMT stuff. And one of the things that Gallimore talks about is there's history, a history of people under the influence of psychedelic drugs, seeing code in specific things. And one of the things that he described in regards to that laser experiment where you do DMT and you shine the laser on the wall, you look at the laser and you see that code, is that it's like, the laser sort of acts like a microscope.

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• 2:22:40Danny Jones?

  Like, first of all, when you're doing DMT, what it's doing is, in his view, is it's breaking down all these filters that we have in our brain. Our brain is filtering out what we normally have every day to be able to eat, sleep, survive, and get through the day, right? And when you take DMT, it breaks down all these filters. So you're seeing maybe this code, maybe you're seeing more stuff that's really here that we can't normally see in a normal state. And when you bring in a laser while you're in that state, it's like hyper focusing on one part of that. And maybe that explains why we're seeing this specific little code. Everyone, or I think a vast majority of people who have done that exact DMT laser experiment have reported seeing the same exact code.

• 2:23:25Danny Jones?

  And the code looks like this, um, this type form, this Japanese text form that's called katakana, which is very similar

• 2:23:34Speaker 01

  To what's in The Matrix.

• 2:23:35Danny Jones?

  To The Matrix dripping rain code, which is a human that was designed by humans. So why, how do you explain that? What we're doing, we're going into this state and seeing this thing that must have been there before humans were here.

• 2:23:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:23:51Danny Jones?

  Is a human invention.

• 2:23:53Speaker 01

  You know what else is really creepy about that is that some people who've been inside these deep underground facilities where

• 2:24:03Speaker 01

  whatever you want to call it, I don't know, why don't we even call these things these days? Alien technology? No, it's not really alien. Off-world technology? No, they're coming from under the ocean. It gets hard to, you know, even label these things. Whatever. They've seen weird shit. Right? Tech that's deeply classified in these underground facilities. And they say that this exotic technology, in some cases, involves a script. That like, like on UFOs, there's a script printed in certain places. Or they found, there's this one, a one case where a guy was shown a gauntlet, like a big glove.

• 2:24:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Speaker 01

  That had an information display on it. And when he looked into it, the holographic display was showing this, these symbols. They're the same symbols that people see on DMT in the laser beam. This is the claim that's been made by people who've done DMT.

• 2:24:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:55Speaker 01

  And have also been in these classified facilities and seen this script imprinted on UFOs or on displays that they've recovered from inside UFOs.

• 2:25:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:05Speaker 01

  And it's the same script. So what does that tell you? It seems to suggest that the people who manufactured that technology have long since cracked this code. And they use it themselves. As some kind of a symbol system.

• 2:25:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:25:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, well, that's disturbing.

• 2:25:22Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:25:25Speaker 01

  By the way, speaking of lasers and laser beams. You know who invented those?

• 2:25:31Danny Jones?

  Was it really the Nazis?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  They invented lasers for the sake of enriching uranium.

• 2:25:37Danny Jones?

  Steve, ask ChatGPT who invented the lasers.

• 2:25:40Speaker 01

  That's probably gonna give us a politically correct answer. But I've read the history of this.

• 2:25:47Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 2:25:48Speaker 01

  And it was done.

• 2:25:51Speaker 01

  So, look, the Germans.

• 2:25:53Danny Jones?

  Theodore Maiman.

• 2:25:56Danny Jones?

  First working laser in 1960 at Hughes Research Laboratories in Malibu, California.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, look up, uh, look up, uh, if he can do this in the background while we talk.

• 2:26:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:05Speaker 01

  Laser isotope enrichment, the history of laser isotope enrichment.

• 2:26:11Speaker 01

  Okay, so the first really functioning coherent lasers, as far as I understand, were invented by the Germans in the 19, I don't know, late 30s, early 40s.

• 2:26:26Speaker 01

  For the sake of, uh, enriching uranium. And, you know, what we're told is that Werner Heisenberg, you know, the German physicist Werner Heisenberg?

• 2:26:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:36Speaker 01

  He wrote a great book called Physics and Philosophy. He was a very deep thinker. But what we're told in the official histories is that Heisenberg was running the atom bomb program for the Nazis.

• 2:26:46Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:26:46Speaker 01

  And that they were using heavy water

• 2:26:50Speaker 01

  enrichment. They were using, you know, what, what, uh, they're so worried about in Iran today.

• 2:26:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:26:58Speaker 01

  Gas centrifuges.

• 2:26:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:00Speaker 01

  To enrich uranium. That's the official narrative, that this is the nature of the Nazi atom bomb program and that we send some operatives from Norway or something to blow up their uranium plants and it ended their atom bomb program.

• 2:27:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  Well, there've been some alternative, uh, researchers like Joseph Farrell, who've, who are citing other more technical sources.

• 2:27:21Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:27:23Speaker 01

  The name of this book escapes me. It's a whole book on the German atom bomb program, which Farrell cites extensively. And there's an argument that the Germans had a second parallel atom bomb program based on laser isotope enrichment. And this was the reason why they invented lasers. And these researchers point to two incidents that took place in 1944, where it appears that the Germans successfully tested an atom bomb. One over the Baltic Sea, where there was this pilot, it was flying, allied pilot, was flying across the Baltic Sea area. And he saw this explosion,

• 2:28:07Speaker 01

  which involved all kinds of different rainbow colors inside of it. And supposedly, this is a characteristic of nuclear explosions that very few people know about. You have to actually have seen one to know that this happens. It's the fissile material continuing to react inside the mushroom cloud. And it produces a certain display of multicolored lights. We don't see it in any of those test footages. Remember those old atom bomb tests? Because it's all black and white footage. But so he described seeing this inside this explosion. And only a nuclear explosion could produce that. Then there was another one at a place not all that far from Berlin. I forget the name of the small town that it was near.

• 2:28:51Speaker 01

  But it caused an EMP blackout of all the electricity and communications in Berlin for like, I don't know, 24 hours or something. So point being, that's something very disturbing to consider, that if the Nazis had actually successfully tested nuclear weapons in 1944, why did they lose the war?

• 2:29:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:29:14Speaker 01

  What is that about?

• 2:29:15Danny Jones?

  What is that about? Yeah, this, I mean, so, do you think it's possible that there is a civilization of humans or something that is here, inhabiting this planet, that we can't see or interact with? Typically, I'm sure there's exceptions, that would be analogous to us compared to an uncontacted tribe living on an island?

• 2:29:54Danny Jones?

  That is so technologically advanced.

• 2:29:55Speaker 01

  I think it's a bad analogy because the level of interference in our societies, on their part, is such that it's nothing like anthropologists trying to study an uncontacted tribe without disturbing it. I mean, they're basically socially engineering our entire world.

• 2:30:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:30:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so if you look through the history of religions, right, I think we talked about this in our, in our first conversation. I cover it at length in Closer Encounters and in Prometheus and Atlas. Working from sources like, well, first of all, I mean, I talk comparative religion myself, so I've read the Bible like in-depth and read the Quran and various religious scriptures. But also, you know, I've read Jacques Vallée's works, Passport to Magonia, The Invisible College, an excellent book by William Bramley, which I can't mention enough times. Everybody in the UFO circle should read this book, The Gods of Eden, William Bramley, okay? Nobody wants to think about these things.

• 2:31:03Speaker 01

  William Bramley, anyway, I don't want to repeat myself from the first show, but he started out studying war profiteering throughout the course of history, and he came to the conclusion that the, the beings behind the UFO phenomenon have been socially engineering all of our cultures from the earliest that we have any historical records, and that they're responsible for all the major wars. And basically, what's going on is mass exploitation of the human population by a hidden elite. So, looking at all this, you see that they've been not just interfering, they've been designing human societies going back thousands of years.

• 2:31:39Danny Jones?

  How does this fit into the simulation hypothesis?

• 2:31:41Speaker 01

  Good fucking question. Right? Because there's more than one way you can interpret that. And this goes back to your question of, if you're a person who has all the security clearances, and you know all the darkest secrets.

• 2:31:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:56Speaker 01

  And you've had to internalize that as part of your worldview, what's it do to you?

• 2:32:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:00Speaker 01

  Right? Because one possibility is that the designers of the simulation themselves, that they're like the...

• 2:32:11Speaker 01

  Okay, either like the architect or like the agent Smiths in The Matrix.

• 2:32:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:32:17Speaker 01

  That's one possibility.

• 2:32:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:32:19Speaker 01

  But there's another possibility. And by the way, I hope that one's wrong. I hope they're not the designers of the simulation. Because if you look at some of the fucked up shit that these entities have done. Like, for example, the cases in Brazil, nobody seems to like to talk about those these days.

• 2:32:31Danny Jones?

  Virginia?

• 2:32:32Speaker 01

  No, no, no. In 1970s, in the Amazon Basin in Brazil, these Nordic UFO pilots terrorized and mutilated the population. They would burn them with lasers, they would chase them through the forest, they would kidnap people, they left mutilated bodies. There were people, I don't want to describe some of the things that were done to some of these people. Doctors went in there and they were horrified.

• 2:33:00Danny Jones?

  Is there a name of this event?

• 2:33:01Speaker 01

  Um, I discuss it in Closer Encounters where I cite extensively, you know, primary sources on it, including Jacques Vallée.

• 2:33:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:33:13Speaker 01

  Who wrote a foreword to a book about this.

• 2:33:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:33:18Speaker 01

  I think it was called UFO Danger Zone in Brazil or something. And Jacques Vallée wrote the foreword to that.

• 2:33:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:33:26Speaker 01

  And yet he, I've never heard Vallée in all these years, bring up those cases again. And I think it's because it conflicts with an implicit agenda. Yeah, there you go.

• 2:33:38Danny Jones?

  Holy shit.

• 2:33:39Speaker 01

  Forward by Jacques Vallée. Terror and death in Brazil, and yes, it really was terror and death. I mean, with utter contempt for these natives of the Brazilian backwater, these Nordics came in and treated them as less than slaves. Almost as if they were engaging in sport, hunting these people and just like sadistically terrorizing them.

• 2:34:03Danny Jones?

  Sounds like some Westworld shit.

• 2:34:04Speaker 01

  There was no constructive purpose, you understand? Like, it's not like they were abducting these people to experiment on them. No, no, no, they were just terrorizing the fuck out of these people, coming up from out of the rivers in the Amazon Basin and doing this to them. And they were described very clearly by all the inhabitants there, because the people down there are, you know, mostly Indian DNA, you know, Amazonian Indian DNA. And so they say, you know, el hombre blanco, you know, they're, they were white people. Blondes, white people. Right. They even, they even thought maybe gringos were behind it. Hmm. Right? But unless the US military had advanced so much, you know, from the 1950s until the 1970s, that we had fleets of UFOs underneath the Amazon rivers coming up, you know, Right.

• 2:34:49Speaker 01

  I don't buy it. Right. And besides, like I said, you see this all through hu- human history. It's in the record of every single religion. Hmm. From, from the Hindu scriptures, the Mahamaratha and the Ramayana, and the wars between the devas and the ashuras, and how they nuked and leveled whole cities, all the way to what's in the Bible, in the Book of Ezekiel, destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, it's all there, same beings. Abraham deals with them. And they're so beautiful that when they first show up, he's so impressed by them that he's like, "Wife, take care of these people." Like, you know, they're, they're very, they seem like they're very important. Hmm. Those aren't aliens.

• 2:35:32Speaker 01

  And the same people go to Sodom to retrieve Lot, right, before God is gonna destroy, before he's gonna nuke Sodom. Mm-hmm. And these guys are so attractive, they're, they're such beautiful men, that these lechers come around the house of Lot, and they all wanna rape these guys. And so Lot, the great prophet, the prophet, chosen prophet of God, volunteers to give his daughter to be raped by these men, instead of allowing them to be raped by the crowd that's amassed outside his house. Anyway, point being, they were tall, beautiful people, okay? Wow. Those are not aliens. Those are humans who are up to no good and have very advanced technology. So, point being, I hope they're not the designers of this simulation.

• 2:36:16Speaker 01

  There's another hypothesis, that they're people who figured out they're in a simulation a long time ago. Remember what we were saying about Mars? Yeah. And McMonigal was saying, "They're trying to find a way out. No matter what they do, they can't find a way out." And remember you said to me, I was talking about, you know, Brandenburg's study of how many nukes had to have been detonated in Sidonia? And you're like, "Well, then the nukes destroyed the atmosphere," right? Well, there's another possibility, that this was the first version of something like the destruction of Atlantis, where these giant pyramids on Mars were data centers.

• 2:36:57Speaker 01

  And the Martians started to experience this geophysical information catastrophe, and they nuked their own servers. Trying to stop the thing. As it was getting out of hand.

• 2:37:11Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:37:12Speaker 01

  But, you know, they got to it too late.

• 2:37:14Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:37:15Speaker 01

  So, point being, the people behind the UFO phenomenon, and I belabor that point, people, behind the UFO phenomenon.

• 2:37:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:24Speaker 01

  Could be the first people who figured out we're in a simulation, and it totally fucked their heads. And, as far as I can see it, they became very sadistic.

• 2:37:34Danny Jones?

  Now, one of the things Greer was explaining to me, is that if there are people, or organizations, private companies, aerospace, that have figured all this out, they hypothetically would be more powerful than any world government, maybe all the world government, maybe Russia, China, US, combined, militarily wise. And that would explain, I mean, he also goes on to say how like, top J2 generals cannot get access to this stuff, meaning, basically, the highest levels of the US military can't even get clearance on this technology.

• 2:38:17Danny Jones?

  I mean, they're like, holding it hostage, from the US.

• 2:38:20Speaker 01

  How do you suppose such a structure would have developed?

• 2:38:22Danny Jones?

  I would imagine it would have started with the United States, and DARPA.

• 2:38:30Speaker 01

  When?

• 2:38:31Danny Jones?

  After the World War II.

• 2:38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, how?

• 2:38:33Danny Jones?

  And they, through Paperclip, and through other stuff we were doing. And it got so out of hand, because obviously, they wanted, the government didn't want to have accountability over this stuff, so that's why they put it in the private sector, and basically, they figured it out to an extent where it maybe took off and got so powerful, that they realized, "Look, we don't need to fucking answer the US government anymore, we control this stuff." And maybe they're-

• 2:39:03Danny Jones?

  Running around the world right now with impunity, doing things that we have no idea what the fuck they're doing. And maybe they're like, I think you made a, you described it in a way as if potentially these are the people that are waiting for China and Russia, China and Russia and the United States are like fishing a pond fighting and they're waiting for them to get worn out.

• 2:39:27Speaker 01

  Like a cat.

• 2:39:28Danny Jones?

  Take, like a cat, like a cat waiting for the fish.

• 2:39:30Speaker 01

  Waiting to eat the fighting fish.

• 2:39:31Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 2:39:34Speaker 01

  Staats Sicherheitsdienst, National Security Agency. It's a Nazi term. It's a Nazi term, was imported into this country. National Security Act of 1947 established the National Security Agency, the CIA, and basically the entire infrastructure of our deep state.

• 2:39:54Danny Jones?

  That's also when we changed the name of the Department of War to the Department of Defense.

• 2:40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, very cute. So, so get this.

• 2:40:04Danny Jones?

  And we created the CIA.

• 2:40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, a lot of people talk about paperclip. We brought thousands of Nazi scientists over here and people talk only about the physicists for some reason, the rocket scientists, which we'll come to them and the bizarre shit that was going on with them. But there were also psychologists we brought here, we brought biologists here, we brought all kinds of people. The psychologists who developed MKUltra eventually, starting with Project Bluebird in the 50s and became MKUltra in the 60s. Bluebird was worse, they were experimenting on children. These were Nazi psychologists who were brought over here to develop these behavioral sciences. They had been doing these things in the concentration camps.

• 2:40:49Speaker 01

  So we bring all these thousands of Nazi scientists over here between 1945 and 1947, okay? You know what else is happening at the same time that nobody seems to talk about? You read the Spanish newspapers at the time and they're saying bizarre shit that Otto Scorsese, you know who he was?

• 2:41:09Danny Jones?

  Remind me.

• 2:41:10Speaker 01

  So Mussolini, so Italy fell before Germany, right?

• 2:41:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41:14Speaker 01

  Most of Italy, except for the Salo Republic, which was in the north. And Mussolini was arrested and he was taken, made prisoner on the island of Pansa. The Nazis used psychics, remote viewers, to find Mussolini. They pinpointed him. By the way, the Nazis used to use this to track naval fleets all the time. They would find the positions of destroyers and, you know, American naval ships using remote viewers. Anyway, they used this to find Mussolini Island. He was held on, and they sent this super commando, special forces leader, Otto Scorsagni, guy with a mustache and a real badass fencing scar.

• 2:41:53Danny Jones?

  Find a photo of him.

• 2:41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, creepy looking guy.

• 2:41:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:55Speaker 01

  Otto Scorsagni. They sent him to retrieve Mussolini. So there's this pictures where Mussolini has been freed. He's been extracted by the Nazis and he's with Scorsagni and Hitler. He's been brought back to Reich headquarters, right? They took care of their boy. They found Mussolini, pulled him out. Yeah, look at some of the ones with a...

• 2:42:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, look at that giant fencing scar.

• 2:42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, now let me tell you a little bit about this guy. So, so look, all these people were prosecuted in Arnhem, right?

• 2:42:25Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:42:27Speaker 01

  Somehow this guy gets loose and he's in Spain from 1945 to 1947.

• 2:42:36Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:37Speaker 01

  Under Franco. So remember, there was one fascist regime that survived the end of World War II. Italy and Germany fell, but Spain survived. Spain was a fascist regime that survived the end of World War II. And moreover, as the mother country of the Spanish-speaking world, the fascist regime of General Franco was connected to the fascist regime of Argentina. And there was a pipeline between Spain and Argentina in terms of Nazi personnel and assets.

• 2:43:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:08Speaker 01

  So this guy shows up, the Spanish newspapers are writing, between 45 and 47, and he's with Franco on the Mediterranean coast of Spain. And they're launching saucer-shaped rockets. They didn't know what to call these things at that point. They only knew what rockets were. Saucer-shaped rockets toward America. What happens in 1947? Roswell.

• 2:43:31Danny Jones?

  Roswell.

• 2:43:33Speaker 01

  Where is Roswell? The only military base at that time, housing nuclear weapons. The base from which the Enola Gay flew to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

• 2:43:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:46Speaker 01

  Okay? So, here's something really disturbing about Roswell.

• 2:43:53Danny Jones?

  Corso's descriptions.

• 2:43:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. Corso's descriptions don't fit anything from an alien craft, man. The guy was in charge, had a foreign technology division of understanding foreign countries' technologies. Right?

• 2:44:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:44:07Speaker 01

  And what did he say was pulled out of the wreckage and then reverse engineered? Velcro.

• 2:44:15Speaker 01

  Night vision.

• 2:44:16Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:44:18Speaker 01

  What else?

• 2:44:21Danny Jones?

  Kevlar?

• 2:44:22Speaker 01

  Kevlar.

• 2:44:24Speaker 01

  Come on, man. Aliens coming here from another, like, star system are using, like, Velcro and Kevlar and night vision? That's like their state of the art technology?

• 2:44:32Danny Jones?

  Nobody talks about this stuff.

• 2:44:33Speaker 01

  There's a reason why nobody talks about it, Danny. There's a reason why nobody...

• 2:44:36Danny Jones?

  So, Corso, how did Corso describe this stuff? And where's it documented for people to read it?

• 2:44:40Speaker 01

  Day after Roswell.

• 2:44:41Danny Jones?

  Day, oh, it's in Day After Roswell?

• 2:44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he says Kevlar, night vision? Now, Joseph Farrell wrote a great study of Roswell and other associated incidents in the context of Nazi psychological operations. It's called Saucers, Swastikas, and Psyops. By the way, I have big problems with... By the way, don't think I'm like you're trying to promote Joseph or something. I spent a couple of days with the guy. I got big problems with him. He's an Orthodox, um, Christian, high up in the Orthodox Christian apparatus and so forth. So, you know, Joseph Farrell's worldview at a deep level and mine couldn't be more opposed, right? But I have to say he's done some very rigorous research. And the stuff that Farrell...

• 2:45:25Danny Jones?

  Swastikas, saucers...

• 2:45:27Speaker 01

  And psyops.

• 2:45:30Speaker 01

  Squaresany is on the cover of that book, actually. Yeah.

• 2:45:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:45:33Speaker 01

  And so Farrell is commenting on Corso and what Corso wrote in "Day After Roswell", and he's saying, "There's no way this is alien. There's no way this is alien. Nazi technology was anywhere between five to 10 years in advance of ours. We know that. We know that, looking at the history of technological innovation, for example, in computers, the Nazis had very small transistors already in World War II. It took us another five to 10 years to develop those. IBM had a German subsidiary called DeHomoag. It was the German branch of IBM. The information was so compartmentalized, the German IBM was ahead of American IBM, the parent company, and they had transistors that were much smaller, right?

• 2:46:17Speaker 01

  So you can look across all the different fields of technology and see, like, for example, the Germans testing night vision goggles in the African desert in 1942. They were like five to 10 years ahead of us.

• 2:46:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:31Speaker 01

  Then when you look at the saucer technology itself, you know, electrogravitics and the saucer airframe.

• 2:46:37Danny Jones?

  Who were the brothers that were working on this stuff?

• 2:46:40Speaker 01

  The Horton Brothers.

• 2:46:41Danny Jones?

  The Horton Brothers.

• 2:46:43Speaker 01

  So when you read the Twining memorandum, General Nathan Twining's memorandum, about the saucers, about flying discs, as they called them in those days,

• 2:46:56Speaker 01

  there was a fake version of that that was modified and it was leaked in the UFO community like, I don't know, a couple decades ago. And it changed a few sentences to make it out like Twining thought these were aliens. The original Twining memorandum has since been excavated. And where you read, you know, at the end, when he's drawing his conclusions and making recommendations, he says, basically, "This looks a lot like Nazi shit, and we really should find out where the Horton Brothers are."

• 2:47:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 2:47:29Danny Jones?

  Annie Jacobson talks about this a lot in her Area 51 book.

• 2:47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:32Danny Jones?

  And I've asked a lot of people about it and no one seems to buy into it. But she, I mean, I know you're familiar with it. Basically, the idea is that there was.

• 2:47:40Speaker 01

  The evidence is very good.

• 2:47:41Danny Jones?

  Mengele, Mengele surgically altered some children to go in that thing.

• 2:47:46Speaker 01

  Progeria children.

• 2:47:47Danny Jones?

  It was remote controlled here.

• 2:47:49Speaker 01

  Progeria children, progeria children, their heads get all swollen up and they look old, even though they're, they're, you know, Neotan-esque looking.

• 2:47:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:47:57Speaker 01

  But they look old at the same time. Their heads get all swollen.

• 2:48:01Danny Jones?

  And there was an EG and G engineer who told Annie this and she goes, why, why wouldn't you guys make this public if you found out that this was Russian, Stalin, drone flown or Nazi stuff? Like it would make them look terrible on the world stage. And he said, the reason we didn't let it out is.

• 2:48:15Speaker 01

  So we continued the research.

• 2:48:16Danny Jones?

  We continued the research.

• 2:48:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:48:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:48:18Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So where is this all coming? The point of departure was our conversation about the deep state.

• 2:48:23Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:48:24Speaker 01

  If there's an entity, as Greer says, and here I agree with him, that's more powerful than all the governments of the world.

• 2:48:33Speaker 01

  How did it start? Where did it start? Started here. It started here because, okay, now, here, here gets a little bit mind boggling again. On the one hand, we've imported these thousands of Nazis and we're engaging them in, let's just say, highly ethnically dubious projects, which requires what? It requires a massive state security and classification apparatus to be put in place, right? Which is unconstitutional, according to our constitution. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. There was that thing, the Bill of Rights. Right. So on the one hand, we're bringing all this technical expertise and the projects they're

• 2:49:16Speaker 01

  working on were things they were doing in concentration camps. So we need classification for that. On the other hand, the saucer crashes and it looks weird. We don't know what it is. Maybe it's alien. We don't know what. But it's definitely a threat to national security. And moreover, the thing crashed next to our own only nuclear base at the time. And it's got maybe some deformed children in it. And it's got all this super advanced technology, but still stuff we can understand that we were already working on.

• 2:49:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:49:50Speaker 01

  So you also need security classification for that. So here we have the National Security Act of 1947, which effectively creates the deep state, right? And, but let me, okay, so, all right, I'll finish this point and then I'll go back to talking about the saucer as an engineering design and where it came from. This deep state was already so autonomous from the civilian government of the United States, including our Defense Department, that when Von Braun's team was working on the early rockets, the adaptation of the V2 into a ballistic missile in the 1950s

• 2:50:34Speaker 01

  in Texas. The Pentagon officials found out that the Germans were taking classified information to the border and meeting with Nazi officials coming from Argentina and Chile and Paraguay, meeting them in border towns in Mexico, right on the Texas border, and giving them classified information from inside of our programs. So they confronted the German scientists about this, right? They were gonna like chastise them, whatever, I don't know. What could they do? Revoke their clearances? Well, who's gonna build this shit, right? But, you know, they get on their case about it. Guess what the next thing that happens is?

• 2:51:18Speaker 01

  Oops, the Germans misdirected their missiles and they landed in Mexico. They shot some ballistic missiles into Mexico. As a way to say to the Pentagon, "Don't fuck with us. You fuck with us again, we'll start a war with Mexico." So already by the 1950s, they had their hands on the balls of the US government to that extent. This is why you have Eisenhower coming out and making that statement as he leaves office, warning about the military-industrial complex that's gotten out of hand and they're a threat to our democratic society, etc. Because he knew this stuff. And I'm convinced the main reason, now Kennedy made a lot of enemies for a lot of reasons, the Kennedy brothers did, because they were, you know, engaged in prosecuting the mafia and, you know, there was the whole Cuban angle with the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

• 2:52:02Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:52:03Speaker 01

  But I'm convinced that the main reason that JFK was killed is that Eisenhower handed this information off to him.

• 2:52:11Danny Jones?

  The UFO stuff?

• 2:52:12Speaker 01

  The whole deep state problem.

• 2:52:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:15Speaker 01

  And said to him, listen, man, you have to get this under control because these people pose an existential risk to our constitution and our way of life. And Kennedy was going to shut them down. And even after he was executed, his brother would have pursued the same policy. So they were both taken out. And I've heard RFK on record in interviews say that he believes that his father was killed by a Lockheed contractor, specifically a Lockheed contractor. Now, why would a Lockheed contractor assassinate Robert Kennedy?

• 2:52:48Speaker 01

  There's only one explanation you can come up with for that.

• 2:52:53Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:52:55Speaker 01

  Now, this is the place to go back to the saucers.

• 2:52:57Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:52:58Speaker 01

  All right. Lockheed Martin used to be called Martin Aircraft.

• 2:53:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:04Speaker 01

  In the 1953, there were all these stories that came out in mainstream news publications about how these aerospace, they weren't called, they were called aircraft companies in those days. Aircraft companies have developed the G engine and they're about to roll off the assembly line, craft that can defy gravity and get you like from New York to Australia in an hour. There were all these stories about this stuff. And they quoted the chairman of Martin Aircraft, Lear, Convair, bunch of companies, handful of companies. And the only one of those that's still active in the, the defense industrial scene is Martin Aircraft, which became Lockheed.

• 2:53:49Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 2:53:50Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:53:53Speaker 01

  And then in 19, by 1955 or so, the story disappears. The story disappears. And it's at the same time, between 53 and 55, where these chairman of these aeronautical engineering companies are making these statements, that you have physicists holding conferences about cracking gravity.

• 2:54:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:13Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 2:54:13Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:54:14Speaker 01

  So, the United States cracked gravity circa 1955.

• 2:54:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:20Speaker 01

  Townsend Brown was also developing, you know, this polarization effect.

• 2:54:25Danny Jones?

  Bryce DeWitt, Lewis Witten.

• 2:54:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:54:27Danny Jones?

  Or Ed Witten.

• 2:54:29Speaker 01

  The other company that has some of this tech is Northrop, which designed the B2 bomber.

• 2:54:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:35Speaker 01

  Which some people say the B2 is a reference to the Brown-bifeld effect.

• 2:54:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:39Speaker 01

  That can basically augment the propulsion of an aircraft by lowering the, you know, effect of gravity on the aircraft.

• 2:54:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, with ion wind.

• 2:54:49Speaker 01

  Yes. And so by 1955, they figured this shit out.

• 2:54:57Danny Jones?

  And then went black.

• 2:54:58Speaker 01

  Now, let me ask you something. If we're looking at Kevlar, Velcro, night vision, lasers, transistors, and we see that in all these areas Nazi Germany was about a decade ahead of us. And we cracked electrogravitics in 1955. When did they crack it?

• 2:55:20Speaker 01

  There are reports that, okay, so there was a think tank in Prague, under the direction of General Hans Kommler. It was a Nazi scientific working group. And I think it was based in Prague because they were collaborating with the Italians on this. Italians were junior partner, and they wanted a country that was sort of nominally not Germany, right? Basically, under Nazi control.

• 2:55:46Speaker 01

  And there are people who claim that Otto Scorsagni, remember Otto Scorsagni? He came to the facility in Prague in 1944, toward the war's end. And he saw that the scientists working under General Kommler had developed a circular, a disc-shaped airframe that was tremendously aerodynamic in its performance. And it had a number of interesting features to it.

• 2:56:18Speaker 01

  One is it had these vents that suctioned the boundary layer. It's called suctioning the boundary layer. Where, you know, air resistance develops around the edges of any airframe, like an airplane or anything that has sharp edges to it. And so first of all, by making a saucer-shaped craft, you're already reducing air resistance. Then they had suction vents that would suck in the boundary layer and redirect it, redirect that airflow into the propulsion system. They also developed a kind of metal that was perforated. They called it Luftschwamm, flying foam. And it was a special kind of metal that had lots of tiny holes in it. They would also allow air to pass through.

• 2:57:02Speaker 01

  It was a very light metal, which further reduced air resistance.

• 2:57:07Speaker 01

  The same think tank, the Kammler Stab, Kammler Staff in Prague, was working on this nine to 12-foot tall acorn-shaped or bell-shaped

• 2:57:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes.

• 2:57:20Speaker 01

  reactor.

• 2:57:21Danny Jones?

  It was a Nazi bell.

• 2:57:23Speaker 01

  Yes, it was a mercury-thorium reactor, whose purpose was to generate more energy than is put into it. It was constantly powered by AC energy with big cables and intermittently shocked with direct current. And it would rotate, counter-rotate, drums filled with mercury and thorium isotope inside of the shell

• 2:57:49Speaker 01

  of this device. And what they realized in the Kammler Stab was we could take this thing and put it inside the saucer. Originally, the saucers were powered by rotating jets. And so we could take this magnificently aerodynamic airframe and take this reactor and put it inside it as a power source.

• 2:58:13Speaker 01

  And there's your electrogravitic saucer. Invented in Nazi Germany, 1944, 45. We cracked the same engineering problems and propulsion issues in 1955. So what does that tell you about all the rest of the stuff that was discovered in Roswell? It fits the pattern of the Nazis cracking this a decade earlier than we were there, scientifically and technologically, and by the time we were there in 55, this deep state run by Nazis already had its hand around the balls of the civilian government of the United States, and had already set up the national security state to sequester this information.

• 2:58:56Danny Jones?

  And this is kind of similar to the idea of that Spectre organization in the Bond?

• 2:59:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, Ian Fleming was an intelligence operative at a very high level.

• 2:59:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:08Speaker 01

  He was involved in, um, surveilling Martin Bormann. Martin, he, I think Ian Fleming was involved in the operation of tracking and surveilling Martin Bormann, who was Hitler's chief financier. He was the money man of the Reich. And Bormann died three times. There's three different accounts of this guy's death.

• 2:59:32Danny Jones?

  Faking his death?

• 2:59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, twice wasn't enough. There's three different accounts of this guy's death, right? We have to be convinced he's dead. Except that from his, from, from, you know, beyond the grave, he writes a check in his own name through Chase Manhattan Bank in Argentina in 1975. So Martin Bormann is still alive in 1975, writing checks for huge amounts through Chase, by the way, a bank, whose logo is a swastika.

• 3:00:05Danny Jones?

  Pull it up.

• 3:00:06Speaker 01

  Take a good look at the Chase logo. Put Chase logo swastika. Take a look at that. And who founded, uh, who founded Chase? JP Morgan.

• 3:00:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:00:16Speaker 01

  JP Morgan was business partners with the Dulles Brothers.

• 3:00:21Danny Jones?

  Holy shit. It is a fricking swastika.

• 3:00:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Uh, keep going down. There's better depictions.

• 3:00:27Danny Jones?

  Is there, was there like an older version of it that was more, even more similar? Because I mean, that's pretty close.

• 3:00:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good question. Um, the Ford Motor Company also had a swastika in its logo before it became politically incorrect. Ford was a big supporter of the Nazis. Ford loved the Nazis. Ford.

• 3:00:45Danny Jones?

  Ford was building shit for them even after the war, right?

• 3:00:47Speaker 01

  Yes, that we were, he was building tanks that we were blowing up on the battlefield for the Nazis.

• 3:00:55Speaker 01

  Ford was a virulent anti Semite. He put

• 3:00:59Speaker 01

  copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in, in the early Ford cars that were manufactured. You could like find it in the glove compartment.

• 3:01:05Danny Jones?

  Type in Ford logo swastika. Let's see what that comes up with.

• 3:01:10Speaker 01

  So anyway, uh,

• 3:01:13Speaker 01

  the early, earliest Ford logo swastika.

• 3:01:17Danny Jones?

  Can you punch in?

• 3:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, Ford Motor Company.

• 3:01:19Danny Jones?

  No, that's not it.

• 3:01:19Speaker 01

  No, that's it. No, that is a Ford Motor Company. Ford Motor Company.

• 3:01:23Danny Jones?

  That was their logo?

• 3:01:24Speaker 01

  Yes, that's their logo. I'm telling you, the guy, listen.

• 3:01:28Danny Jones?

  Find some more of it.

• 3:01:30Speaker 01

  Ford, I found better ones of it before. I've, I've put them in other interviews I've done. Uh, if you can find the drawing, that's.

• 3:01:38Danny Jones?

  That's, that's cool. No, that's, that's not it, dude.

• 3:01:41Speaker 01

  Anyway, look, uh.

• 3:01:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:43Speaker 01

  He was such a rabid anti Semite. You know what the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is? It was a document about how Jews have a conspiracy to control the whole world.

• 3:01:50Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:01:51Speaker 01

  He took copies of that, mass printed them, and will put them in the glove compartments of the cars that he sold to people. Just so he could make sure everybody could read it.

• 3:02:01Speaker 01

  Big supporter of Hitler.

• 3:02:04Speaker 01

  So, so okay, but this is putting our finger on something important about this, which I was trying to get at with Chase.

• 3:02:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:02:10Speaker 01

  JP Morgan, based in New York.

• 3:02:11Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:02:13Speaker 01

  Was business partners, Morgan Jr., JP Morgan Jr.

• 3:02:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:16Speaker 01

  Was business partners with the Dulles Brothers. Alan Dulles becomes the head of the CIA and Rockefeller.

• 3:02:24Speaker 01

  And these three together, Morgan, the Dulles Brothers, and Rockefeller funded the rise of Nazi Germany from America.

• 3:02:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:02:34Speaker 01

  Okay, and they funded Mussolini too. So, point being, there was already an American power base for the Nazis before the war.

• 3:02:44Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:02:45Speaker 01

  You see?

• 3:02:46Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:02:47Speaker 01

  So they had the connections already to fall back on, including people at the level of Rockefeller and Morgan, to help them move money. Why is Chase clearing a check written by Martin Bormann, who died three times? Why in 1975 are they still clearing checks written by this guy?

• 3:03:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:03Speaker 01

  From Argentina?

• 3:03:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And who is the guy Rudolph Hess?

• 3:03:07Speaker 01

  So, in 1938, I think it was 38, 37, 38, something like that, the Germans engaged in this massive expedition to Antarctica. It's been debated, why did they go down there? What were they really, you know, going down there for? I mean, the simplest explanation is, they had a world-class navy, and they wanted to build a naval base in Antarctica. And, but they brought a bunch of scientists with them and did excavations. Actually, one of the craziest things that they did is, they flew over the ice sheet,

• 3:03:49Speaker 01

  going up the, you know, trans Antarctic mountains are huge, they're like the Himalayas. They flew along the side of these mountains, and they dropped swastika flags from out of airplanes, to claim the territory. So, today, in Antarctica, if you go to the trans Antarctic mountains, there are frozen swastika flags, all along the mountainside, claiming the territory for Nazi Germany. Anyway, Rudolph Hess was sent down there. Antarctic, Deutsche Antarctic Expedition, right?

• 3:04:17Danny Jones?

  And he was doing what? What was, what was his title?

• 3:04:20Speaker 01

  Good question. I mean, he was a military man.

• 3:04:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:04:23Speaker 01

  High level, military man. But, good question, what was he doing? Because here's what happens. Comes back from Antarctica, this Hess, right? Takes an unauthorized flight from Germany into Britain, while the British are at war with the Germans already. So they're already like, I don't know if the Blitz had started yet, the bombing of London, but they were already at war with the British, right?

• 3:04:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:04:46Speaker 01

  So Hess gets in a plane, flies by himself.

• 3:04:51Speaker 01

  To Britain, lands in a field, and he's arrested. And he says, "Take me to Winston Churchill." "Take me to Winston Churchill." Two years earlier, he was in Antarctica. Churchill refuses to see Hess. And then they come back to Hess and say, "Churchill won't see you." He's like, "Well, I'm here to engage with like thirty members of your parliament, who are interested in resolving our differences." Now, what historians won't tell you is that Hitler made like three or four peace offerings to the British before he declared war on them. Not just peace offerings, he made offers to collaborate with the British Royal Navy

• 3:05:34Speaker 01

  and like become basically military allies. They turned down all these offers. So Hess says, "I'm here to make another offer to your, you know, people in the House of Lords." So he had the numbers already, right? There was a list of British politicians who this guy knew would be sympathetic. So when Churchill turns him down, he's... So what did the British do? Churchill doesn't let him talk to these parliamentarians. They throw Hess in prison, and he stays there for decades and decades. And then after the Berlin Wall comes down, you know, once Germany becomes democratic, reunification of Germany.

• 3:06:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:17Speaker 01

  He was transplanted to a German prison, Hess. And no one was allowed to talk to him, ever. Again, for the rest of his life until he died. Why did he go to Britain, two years after being in Antarctica? What was he gonna tell the British about Antarctica? What might have been found there? You know?

• 3:06:38Danny Jones?

  What do you think?

• 3:06:39Speaker 01

  And why wasn't he allowed to talk to anybody for the rest of his life? Right? So it's interesting.

• 3:06:47Danny Jones?

  What's your theory?

• 3:06:49Speaker 01

  Well, if you, if you believe the empirical case that's been made for Atlantis in Antarctica, which Graham Hancock made in Fingerprints of the Gods, his first book, working off of the research of Charles Hapgood and Rand Flemeth. And Colin Wilson also, at one point, found this theory compelling when he wrote one of his books on Atlantis.

• 3:07:16Speaker 01

  That the only landmass that fits Plato's description is Antarctica. Plato describes an island the size of Libya and Asia combined, of Asia and Libya combined. In the Greek world, in that time, in Plato's time, that was a description for a territory roughly the size of the first Persian Empire. The first Persian Empire is about the size of the continental United States, a little larger than that. Well, that's the size of Antarctica. Moreover, Plato said that Atlantis was in the world ocean. Well, what does that mean, the world ocean? He said it was outside the pillars of Hercules, which means the Strait of Gibraltar, but he didn't say it was in what's now the Atlantic. You know, people get this ass backwards.

• 3:07:59Speaker 01

  The Atlantic is named after Atlantis. It's named after Atlas, not the other way around. It's not like Atlantis had to be in the Atlantic because it's the Atlantic. So people named, in other words, the Atlantic, the Atlantic, because they imagined Atlantis had been there.

• 3:08:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:08:18Speaker 01

  Okay, named after the Titan Atlas.

• 3:08:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:08:21Speaker 01

  So, but what Plato says is, is outside the pillars of Hercules, outside the Strait of Gibraltar, in the world ocean. Well, what's the world ocean? There is one. There's a world ocean. It's where the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the Indian Ocean all meet in a single body of water in the shoreline of Antarctica.

• 3:08:39Danny Jones?

  How did they get into a war with Athens all the way down there?

• 3:08:43Speaker 01

  They had conquered and were controlling the entire planet.

• 3:08:46Speaker 03

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• 3:09:17Speaker 01

  So the Greeks think they're all so important, like Atlantis came here and fucked with us. Now Atlantis fucked with everybody. Okay, it was a global civilization. It's a civilization that used those 1,300-ton stones at Baalbek. A global technical civilization.

• 3:09:33Speaker 01

  So, first of all, the only landmass that fits the size is Antarctica. Second, it's in the right place. It's in the world ocean. Third, Plato said that when you go to Atlantis, you can come from one side of the world, like South Africa, and cross over Atlantis and you're on the other side of the world. Where else fits that bill than Antarctica?

• 3:09:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09:55Speaker 01

  Where you go across Antarctica and you can go from South Africa to South America?

• 3:10:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:01Speaker 01

  Okay? Moreover, if you look at the research of Charles Hapgood, who was a, actually, he was a historian, but he started to develop interesting geophysical theories, and he worked on contract for the CIA for a while. He was a history professor, but he had classified clearances and he worked with the CIA. And he developed this theory of Earth crustal slippage, that when you look at the flash-frozen mammoths in Siberia, who were frozen with the food undigested in their stomachs.

• 3:10:32Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:10:33Speaker 01

  And certain other things, you, it looks like the crust of the Earth slipped by several thousand miles, suddenly. And this is why we have stories from various tribes, who say that the stars fell.

• 3:10:46Danny Jones?

  The idea of this is called, what is it? It's called like a geomagnetic pole flip or something like that?

• 3:10:51Speaker 01

  Earth crustal slippage is this technical term for this particular theory. Earth crustal slippage, Charles Hapgood. And if that theory is correct, and that's how the mammoths were flash-frozen in Siberia, and the food that we found, undigested, frozen in their stomachs, is food of a temperate climate.

• 3:11:11Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:11:12Speaker 01

  Okay? So it means that Siberia used to have a temperate climate. It was suddenly pulled toward the polar region, the north polar region.

• 3:11:22Danny Jones?

  Where the Earth's outer shell can move as a whole over the mantle, like the skin of an orange.

• 3:11:26Speaker 01

  Yes. It happens because the, it happens because during Ice Ages...

• 3:11:33Speaker 01

  The earth gets top-heavy from all the ice that's weighing down the crust.

• 3:11:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:11:38Speaker 01

  So it causes it to slip at a certain point. And the fact that the food in the mammoth stomachs is food from a temperate climate means that Siberia was suddenly pulled into the northern polar region. If you look at, hold on, if you look at Antarctica, right?

• 3:11:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:55Speaker 01

  And you look at how Siberia slipped, it means as Siberia slipped suddenly into the northern polar region, Antarctica slipped suddenly by several thousand miles into the southern polar region. So about two-thirds of Antarctica would have been where Argentina is today.

• 3:12:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:12:11Speaker 01

  Argentina is a great place.

• 3:12:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:12:13Speaker 01

  Great agriculture, great wine, great livestock, right? Atlantis would have been very habitable if Atlantis were Antarctica before the crustal slippage. So Hess, what did Hess know?

• 3:12:27Danny Jones?

  Also, to linger on Atlantis for a minute. According to this long chain of transmission with Solon and all this stuff, Atlantis would have been how long ago again?

• 3:12:36Speaker 01

  Um, okay, I mean, Plato's dates line up with a lot of other evidence that points to about 10,500 B.C. or 12,000 years ago.

• 3:12:47Danny Jones?

  12,000 years ago. And this is also when people hypothesized the Younger Dryas cosmic impact theory would have happened too. Which a lot of people think that the mammoth being frozen was from a cosmic impact that basically blacked out the sky and...

• 3:12:58Speaker 01

  That's an alternative hypothesis. In any case, in any case, Antarctica fits Plato's description of Atlantis best. And so if you were to ask me what it Hess, on the Nazis in general, find in Antarctica, they found Atlantis. And they were obsessed with Atlantis. The entire Nazi elite, which came from out of the occult Ril Society and the Thule Gazelle Schaft. The Thula is a German equivalent of Atlantis, Ultima Thula. It's a landmass at the north of the world.

• 3:13:38Speaker 01

  A vast landmass of the north of the world. Now, we don't have any landmass of the north of the world. But what is the north of the world? The magnetic poles shift like every, I forget what it is, 23,000 years or something like that?

• 3:13:51Danny Jones?

  No, it's slipping like literally, what is it? We talked about it on that Jimmy Corsetti podcast.

• 3:13:55Speaker 01

  It's migrating right now.

• 3:13:56Danny Jones?

  It's migrating like miles per year.

• 3:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, which means a reversal is about to happen again. Okay? So when the Germanic people preserved this ancient myth that there was this ultima Thula, a huge continent at the north of the world, it's probably dating from a time when the poles were reversed. Antarctica was the northern polar, you know, region and vice versa magnetically, magnetically. So the Nazis were obsessed with finding Thula or Atlantis.

• 3:14:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:28Speaker 01

  And they may have hit jackpot circa 1938.

• 3:14:35Danny Jones?

  But then wouldn't there be some sort of evidence of it if the Nazis were there back then? Like wouldn't some of the stuff, would they find pyramids? What did they find there?

• 3:14:43Speaker 01

  Well, there's evidence the Nazis were there. I mean, look up Operation High Jump.

• 3:14:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:14:47Speaker 01

  1946 Admiral Byrd went down there with a whole fleet and they were bait, they were supposed to be on an expedition that lasted months and they ran into something that devastated the fleet and they retreated very quickly.

• 3:15:06Speaker 01

  And on his way back to, you know, United States, they stopped at some port in Chile, I think. And Byrd made this bizarre statement about how we have to prepare in the next world war to encounter aircraft that can cross from pole to pole with amazing speed. And so it looks like they went down there, maybe because they knew the Nazis were down there, tried to clear them out or something and they had the ship beaten out of them. Forty-six.

• 3:15:38Danny Jones?

  What do you make of the argument that Plato was full of shit? And he wasn't a historian, he was just making up hypothetical allegories?

• 3:15:50Danny Jones?

  Like the allegory of the cave, like, was Atlantis just another philosophical allegory like the cave?

• 3:15:56Speaker 01

  Okay, let me answer in two ways.

• 3:15:57Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:15:58Speaker 01

  My first answer is that we could, it could be that Plato never existed. We can completely disregard Plato. The evidence for Atlantis is overwhelming. Don't call it Atlantis. By the way, I'm pretty sure the Atlanteans didn't call it Atlantis. They probably had some other name for it, right? So-

• 3:16:17Danny Jones?

  Other than Plato, what is the most compelling evidence?

• 3:16:20Speaker 01

  There's so much compelling evidence. I mean, first of all, the megalithic structures that have inexplicable engineering skill behind them.

• 3:16:28Danny Jones?

  In Egypt?

• 3:16:28Speaker 01

  On every continent, every, it's everywhere. Look at Tiwanaku in Bolivia, the Tiwanaku, the Calasasia at Tiwanaku in Bolivia. The, um, some of the older sites in Mexico, in the Yucatan. All of these sites exhibit the same enigmatic, Saxe-Wammon is another one, Oleontotombo. The walls at Saxe-Wammon and Oleontotombo are made of insanely gigantic megalithic blocks, which intersect with the blocks next to them, sometimes at 12 different points of intersection.

• 3:17:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:06Speaker 01

  Which means that either they had a way to liquefy stone and mold it as they were putting stones together, or something even more mind boggling, the stones were all pre-cut, like jigsaw puzzle pieces.

• 3:17:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:17:18Speaker 01

  And then put in exactly the right place. Well, either of those are insane from an engineering perspective. I mean, even we won't do that, we won't. Maybe we can, just barely now, but no one in our world would ever think to try to do something like that. And by the way, that type of building, it turns out, it's extremely earthquake resistant.

• 3:17:36Danny Jones?

  Yes, it is.

• 3:17:37Speaker 01

  Cause it wobbles and then locks back into place.

• 3:17:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, also the land, the ground that it was built on, something about it, the way they built the foundations of it, the stone is like super flexible and malleable.

• 3:17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and some of these blocks, like the ones at Baalbek, 1,200 ton stones. 19 cranes can't lift those things, 19 industrial, who did that?

• 3:17:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:57Speaker 01

  Alright, so, look.

• 3:17:58Danny Jones?

  I mean, it's a-

• 3:17:59Speaker 01

  It's written in stone.

• 3:18:00Danny Jones?

  Whether you want to call it Atlantis, like, I agree.

• 3:18:02Speaker 01

  Who cares what you call it?

• 3:18:02Danny Jones?

  I agree, that's evidence of a super-advanced civilization that was here before we have any kind of explanation for it.

• 3:18:08Speaker 01

  By the way, other cultures have other names for it. Not all cultures call it Atlantis. You find this in almost every civilization in the world, that there's a myth about a super-civilization that existed in antiquity, and that the people who, who lived there were demigods, that they were god-like people.

• 3:18:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:23Speaker 01

  Who then disseminated knowledge to other primitive cultures in the world. You find it, this basic myth in the Mayans, you find it in the Egyptians, you find it in the Middle East. In Iranian civilization, which is something I'm very familiar with, I wrote a whole tome on the history of Iran.

• 3:18:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:40Speaker 01

  In ancient Iranian culture, they called this place Arianam Va'ajah,

• 3:18:46Speaker 01

  which means "the seed cradle of the Aryans", meaning "where the Arian race came from", that's what they say.

• 3:18:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:18:52Speaker 01

  And they say it was a place, this is a very interesting detail. So you have all these flood myths around the world.

• 3:18:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:19:00Speaker 01

  And the flood myths are connected to the myth of the destruction of the super-civilization. In all these cultures, including Mayan culture, Egyptian culture,

• 3:19:08Speaker 01

  the one exception is Iran. Where the Iran, we talked about this first time, first interview. Iran, the name means Arian. It's a Middle Persian form of the ancient Persian Arian, or Ariano.

• 3:19:21Speaker 01

  The Iranian ancient mythology is the only one that says the super-civilization wasn't destroyed by a flood. It says "our homeland froze". "Our homeland was an island at the center of the world", it was the central continent of the world,

• 3:19:37Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:19:37Speaker 01

  Which is what Antarctica looks like. If you, you see, you make a-

• 3:19:41Danny Jones?

  During the Ice Age, it would have been massive, right?

• 3:19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you make a globe-

• 3:19:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:44Speaker 01

  Centered on Antarctica. You take a globe and you flip it, so you're looking right at Antarctica. It looks like the continent at the center of the world. If you live there, and you're, you know, mapping the world from your perspective.

• 3:19:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:19:55Speaker 01

  So they say it was a continent at the center of the world, and all of a sudden, it froze over.

• 3:20:01Danny Jones?

  See if you can find a, a, a graphic depiction of what Antarctica would have looked like during the Ice Age, the last Ice Age.

• 3:20:08Speaker 01

  You're talking about the sub-glacial topography of Antarctica.

• 3:20:13Danny Jones?

  Yes, that would be the technical way of putting it.

• 3:20:16Speaker 01

  So.

• 3:20:19Speaker 01

  No, that's what you want to look at. Look up subglacial topography, Antarctica. They have found maps, like the Orontius Phineas map and the Piraeus map,

• 3:20:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:20:29Speaker 01

  which show Antarctica underneath the ice. No one in recorded history ought to have been able to map that landmass subglacially.

• 3:20:38Danny Jones?

  Look how big that shit is.

• 3:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's larger than the continental United States.

• 3:20:42Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 3:20:44Speaker 01

  Antarctica.

• 3:20:44Danny Jones?

  And now on the left, that connects down to South America?

• 3:20:47Speaker 01

  The amount, yes. The amount of the closest point to any land is in Argentina. You think that's a coincidence?

• 3:20:53Speaker 01

  Do you think it's a coincidence when the Nazis went to Argentina, that where they went was San Carlos to Bariloche? That's Patagonia. It's the southernmost point of Argentina that's close to Antarctica. Very convenient.

• 3:21:05Danny Jones?

  How long do you think Hitler lived after the war?

• 3:21:08Speaker 01

  He lived into the 1960s.

• 3:21:10Danny Jones?

  Into the 60s.

• 3:21:11Speaker 01

  And he died of Parkinson's related, you know, people in Argentina describe having seen him with very bad Parkinson's. He had lost the mustache.

• 3:21:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:21:21Speaker 01

  And he lived, I think, a very miserable life. Because, and this is an important little anecdote.

• 3:21:31Speaker 01

  Because it says a lot about Specter.

• 3:21:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:35Speaker 01

  Or as they called it themselves, Dischbenna. Their name for it was the spider. Dischbenna, the spider, the post-war Nazi international.

• 3:21:45Speaker 01

  Largely based in the United States and Argentina. So, an anecdote about the Hitler, thing is, when you look at Martin Bormann and his financial machinations in Latin America in the 19, from the 50s to the 70s. And you look at Otto Skorzeny and how he was operating at an international level in that same time period.

• 3:22:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:10Speaker 01

  It seems that if Hitler survived decades past the end of the war, which there's evidence he did.

• 3:22:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:22:16Speaker 01

  He wasn't doing anything important.

• 3:22:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:22:19Speaker 01

  I think the guy was put out to pasture. I think basically they said to him, you know, "Thank you very much, Herr Hitler, but please paint your sunsets. You know, go back. You wanted to be a painter, right?

• 3:22:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:22:32Speaker 01

  Enjoy painting your sunsets. We've got everything under control, sir.

• 3:22:35Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:22:36Speaker 01

  We've got everything under control. And eventually Eva Braun even left him. You know, and so I think the guy lived a pretty desperate and miserable life, having been given the cold shoulder by the people who were actually in charge of what they were conceiving of as a coming Fourth Reich. People like Bormann, Skorzeny, younger, more shrewd, competent people. And people with a more dynamic vision.

• 3:23:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:23:07Speaker 01

  To give you an example, which really is a mindfuck. There's a lot of evidence that Skorzeny played a huge role after the end of the war in tactical operations for these people. Remember, Skorzeny was the guy who thought of using saucers in the 50s as a part of a psyop against America.

• 3:23:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:23:26Speaker 01

  Same Otto Skorzeny, fencing scar guy, died in 1975. Shortly before he died, in the early 70s, he worked with Mossad. It's been proven he had a very good relationship with the State of Israel. Otto Skorzeny. So how is it that Israel is sending Mossad and military intelligence operatives to retrieve Adolf Eichmann from South America to then stand trial in Jerusalem?

• 3:23:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:23:55Speaker 01

  But they're working with Skorzeny in the early 70s? What did Eichmann do to get on the shit list?

• 3:24:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's, it's a, it is such a mindfuck, the history of this stuff. And how useful certain people were, like Skorzany to other.

• 3:24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think Eichmann was prosecuted because he ceased to be useful.

• 3:24:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:24:16Speaker 01

  He probably pissed off the wrong guy.

• 3:24:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:18Speaker 01

  Yep. And they said, okay, give him to the Israelis.

• 3:24:23Danny Jones?

  And what do you make of this recent stuff that like Greer is talking about with this psychic, psionic stranger things type stuff? Where they're kidnapping people that are like left-handed, um, young, from other countries, bringing them here to, and giving them drugs, he said.

• 3:24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:24:38Danny Jones?

  Dopaminergic drugs to summon these things and crash them. So they're trying to hot, so first of all, why?

• 3:24:46Danny Jones?

  If these things are so advanced, how the fuck are they crashing them with psychic abilities? And second of all, who are these people doing, conducting these operations in your mind?

• 3:24:54Speaker 01

  Okay, that's a, that's a complex question, right? A multi-part question. First of all, how are they crashing these things with psychic abilities? Well, consider this. If the pilot is part of the guidance system of a UFO, and the pilot is integrated into the airframe psychokinetically, if you fuck with the pilot's mind, you're gonna crash the airframe.

• 3:25:13Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 3:25:14Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 3:25:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:15Speaker 01

  So you had a powerful enough psychic, get into the head of a UFO pilot.

• 3:25:19Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 3:25:19Speaker 01

  You can bring a saucer down.

• 3:25:21Danny Jones?

  And who is the pilot in your mind?

• 3:25:23Speaker 01

  One of these Nordics, you know? In some cases with a bunch of these gray robots on board who handle the abductees. The Nordics don't like to handle the abductees. Because you see this in the Travis Walton case. Travis Walton case, they sent the robots to deal with him.

• 3:25:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:25:37Speaker 01

  Then he, he beat up the robots. Big strapping guy that he was, beat up the robots, right? And he went out into the hallway, and then the Nordics were like, man, we gotta deal with this guy. We gotta deal, really seriously, we have to deal with this guy now. So it's like they used the grays. And then Whitley Strieber. So Whitley Strieber, look, he's very clear that the people, the people who put the implant in, were people, European-looking people.

• 3:26:07Speaker 01

  Guy and a, a guy, two, two guys and a woman who came into his house. One stayed outside or something, two of them came in and they did this thing, put the implant in his ear. People.

• 3:26:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:19Speaker 01

  There's a Nordics. They used the grays to handle terrified abductees, because who wants to do that job?

• 3:26:29Danny Jones?

  What is the connection between, and you're the one who told me about this. By the way, before I conducted that Whitley Strieber podcast, you gave me a whole history of Whitley Strieber over like two hours on the phone, which was fascinating. And I don't know anybody who has been gone so deep on the history of Whitley.

• 3:26:44Speaker 01

  I read his work like 20 years ago or something like that. It's been a very long, but I, you know, when I read it, I really read it like I read most things.

• 3:26:51Danny Jones?

  And when I brought up, you, you mentioned to me,

• 3:26:57Danny Jones?

  told me to bring up with Whitley about his history in Mexico, what he was, what was going on with him in Mexico. And when I asked him that on the podcast, he said, he like straightened up and he's like, I don't want to talk about that.

• 3:27:06Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, because I mean, it was horrific child abuse managed by Nazis in Mexico. They had a huge presence in Mexico. Remember what I was saying earlier?

• 3:27:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:27:16Speaker 01

  Is that paperclip rocket scientists would come to the border towns between Texas and Mexico and do data drops, handing classified information to their not, to their fellow Nazis.

• 3:27:30Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:27:32Speaker 01

  Who operated more freely in Mexico and throughout Latin America.

• 3:27:35Danny Jones?

  So this was some sort of program to induce trauma in kids?

• 3:27:39Speaker 01

  Pre MKUltra.

• 3:27:40Danny Jones?

  Pre MKUltra.

• 3:27:42Speaker 01

  So MKUltra was like the light, the Bud Light version. They had shit before MKUltra that was even worse. Bluebird and other things before that that are basically extensions of the experiments on children that were done in concentration camps. That's what it is.

• 3:28:00Danny Jones?

  And how did that, what, what did that psychological traumatic experience that he went through in Mexico? What, what was it specifically? What were they doing to him?

• 3:28:11Speaker 01

  Okay, now I heard this very clearly. He, you know, he has this dreamland radio program with the streamer. It's been going on for, I don't know, 25 years or something like that. I heard him describe this in detail. So I don't know whether he wants to now not talk about it or say something, you know, it was another way, but I remember very clearly what he described. And he did this in more than one conversation. Once might've been a monologue and once was in an interview with somebody.

• 3:28:40Speaker 01

  And he basically said they were taken to a mansion in Mexico that was run by the same people as this Nazi doctor in Texas, associated with Randolph Air Force Base.

• 3:28:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:28:53Speaker 01

  And he said they were put in, these children were put in situations where they were shown mutilated bodies and horrific sounds were played to them in the dark and they were made to believe that they had killed these people.

• 3:29:08Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:29:11Speaker 01

  Okay. Put in cages, shown mutilated body parts, exposed to chainsaws, made the whole chain, like just horrific shit.

• 3:29:20Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:29:21Speaker 01

  That's basically meant to produce extreme dissociation and a fragmentation of the psyche.

• 3:29:27Danny Jones?

  Okay. And how did this, how does this connect to all his experiences with like having sex with aliens?

• 3:29:36Speaker 01

  Dissociation combined with absorption. Okay, these are two somewhat counter-intuitively connected psychological processes. One dissociation, because you don't want to deal with a traumatic situation. And second, absorption, extreme attention. And you would think like these are opposite things, but there's a way to induce dissociation more or less simultaneously with absorption. And the state of mind that that produces is extremely psych conducive.

• 3:30:09Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:30:11Speaker 01

  So you, you might perceive things that other people don't perceive.

• 3:30:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:30:15Speaker 01

  And you might be able to unconsciously exercise abilities that other people, that are, they're only latent in most people.

• 3:30:21Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:30:21Speaker 01

  Okay. So that's what it is. It's a, it's a catalyzing of dissociation and absorption.

• 3:30:29Danny Jones?

  So these beings, those, these beings that he was experiencing were real?

• 3:30:35Speaker 01

  Here's one of my problems with Whitney's account, okay, is that he says that while one of these grays was on top of him, and I believe this was in his cabin.

• 3:30:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:30:45Speaker 01

  He says this grays on top of him, I won't get into the, you know, details, but he said he, in the moments where he could even focus on anything but her, he sees that there's all these people standing around in the cabin room, and one of them is a CIA officer.

• 3:31:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:31:04Speaker 01

  Who he knew and recognized.

• 3:31:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:31:07Speaker 01

  Okay, I mean, does that mean that there's some agreement between some of the grays and the CIA? Maybe. Or does it mean that he was given drugs and there was some elaborately staged scenario?

• 3:31:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:31:22Speaker 01

  Where he was made to believe that?

• 3:31:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:31:24Speaker 01

  It was a, an encounter?

• 3:31:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:27Speaker 01

  I don't know, take your pick. In any case, it doesn't look good. Doesn't look good.

• 3:31:31Danny Jones?

  No, it does not look good.

• 3:31:34Danny Jones?

  Crazy shit, Jason Giorgiani. Thanks again for coming, man. That was a, uh,

• 3:31:39Danny Jones?

  wild follow-up to our first podcast. I didn't think it'd get any crazier.

• 3:31:42Speaker 01

  It was indeed, Danny, it was.

• 3:31:45Danny Jones?

  Tell people about your new book, where they can find it, where they can get in touch with you, all that good stuff.

• 3:31:49Speaker 01

  Good. So the cover of my new book is still up there, well, at least part of the cover.

• 3:31:54Speaker 01

  It's called Metapolemos. Metapolemos, it's uber comp in German, sort of super war. And it refers to a metaphysical ontological idea, destructive departure and worldview warfare, which is kind of my reverse engineering of the basic concept behind the breakaway civilization. My reverse engineering, the concept that motivates their activities. And it's a huge breakthrough in understanding the nature of psychological warfare. So, but it's basically, as I said at the outset, no, no, no, that's philosophy of the future.

• 3:32:37Speaker 01

  And the reason that there's a similarity in cover is that I intend Metapolemos-

• 3:32:40Danny Jones?

  It's called Satanian.

• 3:32:42Speaker 01

  No, no, no, Satanian is my last book.

• 3:32:44Danny Jones?

  Oh, which one is this?

• 3:32:45Speaker 01

  I write at a rather rapid pace. So Satanian came out in November.

• 3:32:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:32:50Speaker 01

  We're recording now in February, in February.

• 3:32:52Danny Jones?

  February, yep, end of February.

• 3:32:53Speaker 01

  End of February. So my latest book, the one that you have the cover up there on, part of the cover, is gonna be out within, let's say, two, three weeks.

• 3:33:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:33:04Speaker 01

  And the reason that the, yeah, if you can put the whole cover up there, it'd be good.

• 3:33:08Danny Jones?

  I emailed it to you, Steve.

• 3:33:10Speaker 01

  Anyway, the reason the cover has a similarity to the graphics for Philosophy of the Future is that it's meant to be a kind of companion volume to this. In Philosophy of the Future, I present an overview of my entire philosophical project in terms of my original concepts. And in Metapolemos, I give an executive summary of my whole project, but in terms of the different domains of philosophy. So my thoughts, yeah, there it is. My thoughts in the domain of ontology, my epistemology, my view on ethics, aesthetics, and political philosophy. So it's divided up into those domains and gives you either an introductory overview or a kind of executive summary of my philosophical project.

• 3:33:54Speaker 01

  The last thing I want to say about this book is that I've included in this book, which is now, I think, my 14th book,

• 3:34:05Speaker 01

  journals which I wrote 20 years ago. So back when I was, you know, reading Whitley Strieber, 25 years ago, whatever, 20 years ago.

• 3:34:12Danny Jones?

  Hanging out with Jack Sarfati. I saw the photo. He sent me a photo of you guys when you were just a-

• 3:34:15Speaker 01

  That was when I, exactly. That's when I met Jack Sarfati. Yeah, that's right. So, back in those days, for about three years, I kept a journal. It was a black notebook. And it's really the matrix of my philosophical thought. It's the, you know, the substrate from out of which my ideas emerge. The genesis of my career as a philosopher is in those notebooks. And I've included a pretty large selection of the entries from in there, which is a very dangerous and revealing thing to do. And it'll give people a lot of insight into what motivated my philosophical project.

• 3:34:53Danny Jones?

  Gorgeous. What's up with Saturn on top of the devil horns?

• 3:34:57Speaker 01

  That's a UFO, but it's interesting.

• 3:34:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's a UFO? I thought it was Saturn.

• 3:35:01Speaker 01

  But it's interesting that it read as Saturn to you.

• 3:35:02Danny Jones?

  It looks more like Saturn to me.

• 3:35:02Speaker 01

  Well, that's interesting, because Saturn is Cronos. And the Nazis called the Bell Project "Project Cronos", or "Project Time",

• 3:35:12Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:35:13Speaker 01

  The Saturn Project.

• 3:35:17Danny Jones?

  We gotta go do another podcast at dinner. I got a lot more questions.

• 3:35:20Speaker 01

  Let's do it, man.

• 3:35:21Danny Jones?

  You gotta get going. All right. Thanks again, man. I'll link everything below.

• 3:35:25Speaker 01

  Thank you, Danny. It's been a pleasure again.

• 3:35:26Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, world.

• 3:35:28Speaker 03

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