Pretty Tough with Maria Sharapova: Chelsea Handler

Happy Memorial Day from all of us at On with Kara Swisher! Today, we’re bringing you a special episode of "⁠Pretty Tough⁠," a new podcast from the Vox Media Podcast Network hosted by tennis star and entrepreneur Maria Sharapova. Each week, Maria sits down with high-achieving women across industries for candid, wide-ranging conversations about their pursuit of excellence without apology. In this episode, Maria speaks with comedian and best-selling author Chelsea Handler, who's built a career on saying exactly what she thinks, regardless of the consequences. Maria explores what drives Chelsea’s independence across every chapter of her life and how she continues to evolve through therapy, travel, and psychedelics. Pretty Tough is produced in partnership with VOX MEDIA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. Happy Memorial Day. We're off for the holiday, but we've still got something special for you today. We're bringing you an episode of tennis star Maria Sharapova's new podcast, Pretty Tough. It's another great Vox Media podcast that you should be listening to. In this episode, Maria sits down with one of my favorite people, comedian Chelsea Handler. They talk about how Chelsea has managed to maintain her independence over her decades-long career and what keeps her going now. Maria's interviews are as tough as her backhand, and you all know how fun Chelsea is to talk to, so stick around. You are the only person on your team that knows me, so you should be able to handle this situation, Maria.

• 0:43Kara Swisher?

  You have a podcast now, and you need to start acting like it.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  I need to be a professional.

• 0:47Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, you're a podcast, bra.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Teach me.

• 0:49Kara Swisher?

  You're a podcast, bro.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  What's the first step as a podcaster?

• 0:52Kara Swisher?

  Well, you have to ask lots of questions, which is annoying, I know, for you.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  It's really annoying.

• 0:57Kara Swisher?

  Because it's a totally different skillset.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Well, it's annoying interviewing you because you ultimately lead the conversation.

• 1:02Kara Swisher?

  Well, but that's going to be a gift for you, because it's going to be easier. Because you're going to be able to ask me a question, and then I'm going to be able to expound on it for so long that you don't even have to ask that many questions.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Should I just leave, then?

• 1:13Kara Swisher?

  Maybe.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Okay. This is over.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  My next guest and I are polar opposites. Comedian Chelsea Handler has built a career on saying exactly what's on her mind, whether it gets her in trouble or not. From stand-up to bestselling books and hit shows, she's never really followed anyone else's rules. She came to watch me play at the Olympics in 2012, and we've been friends ever since. What I've always found so impressive about Chelsea is her independence. She's created a life completely on her own terms. And she's constantly evolving, whether that's through therapy, travel, or, yes, even psychedelics. So I had to ask her, after all the success, what keeps her pushing forward?

• 2:03Speaker 01

  And does she think I should try a little experimenting once in a while? As always, her answers surprise me. This was a fun one, because anytime Chelsea's around, I know I'm in for a funny, unfiltered, and incredibly thoughtful conversation. I'm Maria Sharapova, and this is Pretty Tough.

• 2:26Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from The Guardian and their new show, Stateside, where journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman use the entire independent reporting resources of The Guardian to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what is actually happening in the world. Join Kai and Carter three times a week as they utilize all the reporting resources The Guardian has across news, international coverage, climate, culture, wellness, and more. And The Guardian's not owned by a billionaire, they fearlessly report the facts without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more. And listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's theguardian.com/stateside.

• 3:10Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow, none of them ever talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free at Odoo.com/Kara. That's O-D-O-O dot com slash Kara.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Now for a quick message from Anthropic, the team behind Claude, the AI built for businesses. Customers count on their bank, and banks count on their most important systems. Now those systems count on Claude, and nine of the Fortune 10 companies use it for critical work. See why leading companies trust Claude at claude.ai/span.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  First of all, thank you for doing this.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  It means we like, this is like a testament to your loyalty.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  So I appreciate it.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  You're welcome.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I like to start these segments with a quote. And you've had a lot to say. So it was, it was really challenging.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Pulling a quote from you. But the one that I really favored was, I have to tell the truth because I'm incapable of anything else. Is that accurate? Is that a false?

• 4:43Speaker 03

  I can lie.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  You said it on Fallon.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, well, that I wouldn't qualify that as like a quote. You know what I mean?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  But you said it.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Well, I too tell the truth most often.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Let's not argue.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't lie a lot. I sometimes lie just to, you know, protect people's feelings. But as a general rule, especially as a woman, I believe it is very important to be truthful, A, with other women, and B, with everyone else.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  And when, when was the last time the truth got you in trouble?

• 5:09Speaker 03

  Oh, all the time. The truth always gets me in trouble.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Like today?

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Because I'm constantly running my mouth. I mean, I'm sure I'll say something in this interview that will get me into trouble. Or, or, I mean, at some point today, I have a lot of interviews today. So at some point, I will say something that will be like in the news, Chelsea Handler said this.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Okay. And do you like that?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  No, no. I don't mean to do that. I just, it's my personality and I've learned to accept it.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  And the moment you feel it, like you're, the truth is gonna?

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Yes. Just be, I just like to be candid.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  I don't like to be guarded. You know what I mean? Like, you're more guarded because you've grown up, like, having to protect yourself in a way. I've kind of like made a living out of just showing, like, being myself, rather, you know, like, having my personality out there. So I forget sometimes that things are going to be taken out of context. Or sometimes they're not even taken out of context. I just shouldn't have said it. I shouldn't have been so forthcoming.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I mean, most people struggle with being honest. But you don't. Because it's just, you, that's you.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  It's your personality.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  Yes, I think so. I think that's what I've learned in the 50 years that I've been with myself. I've learned that that might, that is a big chunk of my personality, is to just say what's on my mind.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  I mean, it's really, it's really admirable that you're 50 years old and you are growing and getting better and you're aware of it. Like, what are you still searching for?

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, you say 50 like it's over and I would argue that 50, now that I am 50 and I understand life more than I did when I was 30 or 40, is that you get so much more wisdom and you get so much more experience that you actually feel like you're beginning again. Like, when I turned 50, I was like, oh, this is a reset. Like, I have my shit together now.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  I'm recalibrating.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  In a way that I didn't have my shit together in my 20s, 30s, or even my 40s. In my 40s, I was, I went through like a real rough patch in my 40s. And I think it's probably called a midlife crisis because that's what happens when you turn that age. You start to really think about what's, what are you contributing? Like, what's your purpose? Why are you here? Who are you here for? Are you making like people feel good? Are you making them feel bad? Like, what do you want to do with your life? So now that I'm 50 and I kind of went through all the ugly therapy part of really getting like into the stuff that you don't want to really talk about when you're younger. Uh, I feel like renewed and I feel very more, I feel much more optimistic and happy in a way that I haven't felt in my life.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Like, I feel calm rather than crazy.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Hmm, that worries me.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  So I feel like you have a lot to look forward to and all women and men, but I'm a woman, so I'll speak to that, have a lot more to look forward to. Like, I always looked at 50 like, oh, I'll be dead by 50. It's like, well, no, no.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Because of how much you drink?

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Well, partly, but also because of all the other shenanigans I get up to, you know?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  How, how often are you microdosing and psychedelic-ing?

• 8:02Speaker 03

  I had a microdose. I was, just came from Aspen. I was there for three days. I had a little LSD while I was there. That was the last time. And then I gave, I had about 10 little pieces of paper hits that I brought with me. And then I gave those to my friend when I left and said, would you like the rest of these? Cause they lived in Aspen and I felt like probably now is not a good time to travel with drugs. So I'm just leaving them all over the world.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  I never thought we'd get to a point where we'd be talking about traveling with drugs.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  But here we are.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  That's why, that's why you invited me on this podcast.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  I mean, knowing what you know about me, do you suggest I try psychedelics?

• 8:35Speaker 03

  I don't think that you are a drug person. I don't think that.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  What makes you think that?

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Well, you're Russian, so you like alcohol. That's just in your genes. That's in your DNA.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  I do. I like a drink.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  So that's enough for you. I don't think, you're very like, um,

• 8:51Speaker 03

  I don't want to say controlling.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Controlling, no.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, controlling.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I feel it. When I'm out of, when I'm not in control.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  You don't like it.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  Right. I don't mind being out of control because I'm always a little, even as, as, as high as you can get me, I still know what's happening.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I have a question in my notes because I was listening to a few of your podcasts and I was like, God, she seems so in control. What, like, is there anything that throws you off?

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Yes, but I think my experience, at first, well, I have a very strong constitution. It takes me a lot of drinks to even like catch a buzz or to get drunk. Like, I don't get drunk a lot.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  I mean, you practiced.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  I've, I've, I've practiced since I was a-

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Malcolm Gladwell is like really proud of you.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  If you put in 28,000 hours or whatever it is.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  I thought, yeah.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  28,000 hours, 10,000 hours.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  I thought it was just 10,000 steps.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Well, that's per day. Okay. You're getting those two things confused.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  I am.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  So 10,000 hours, 10,000 hours of something makes you an expert. I'm an expert in drinking and drug use.

• 9:54Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from The Guardian. Trying to locate news sources that reliably separate fact from fiction can seem like looking for a needle in a haystack these days. Social media feeds, cable news, and subscription-based news outlets might be able to give you one version of the news, but not in the way that you need. You want news fast, but slow enough to actually absorb the information. Stateside with Kai Wright and Carter Sherman is here to do just that. The podcast tries to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions regarding the world at large at your own pace. Three times a week, hosts Kai Wright and Carter Sherman bring their expertise together to showcase different and engaging perspectives regarding the world today. They will use their collective knowledge to discuss the news, international affairs,

• 10:38Kara Swisher?

  climate, culture, sports, lifestyle, fashion, and wellness. Plus, The Guardian wants to emphasize they're not billionaire-owned, meaning they're free to report the whole picture without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more and listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube starting May 13.

• 10:59Kara Swisher?

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• 11:42Kara Swisher?

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• 12:12Kara Swisher?

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• 12:54Kara Swisher?

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• 13:18Speaker 01

  You generally seem in control of everything, like the situation, a conversation when you're on stage, when you're writing a book. Is there anything that throws you off balance?

• 13:30Speaker 03

  I guess when I'm, when I feel maybe shunned or invisible, that does throw me off balance. I think if someone like knows me and doesn't, isn't interested in talking to me, that, like if I'm at a party and I'm like, oh, hey, and they're like not interested, I'm like, whoa. You know, like, I get it.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  So you care.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  I, yeah, yeah, yeah, I care. Like, that throws me off where I'm like, oh. But then I don't, I also don't harp on it. I'm like, oh.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  But in the moment, you're sensitive to the fact that they've moved on before you want it to move on.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I can read the situation and go, oh, that person doesn't like me.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  In your last book, you dive into the value of spending a lot of time alone. Are you still spending time alone? Or now that you have like a hot new boyfriend, that's...

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's taking up a lot of my time.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Okay, is that good or bad?

• 14:21Speaker 03

  It's good, but he lives in Florida, which I know you love. You spend a lot of time in Florida.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  I did not anymore.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you did. And I'll never forget that.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  But now you're spending time in Florida?

• 14:31Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. I live in Florida.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  You refuse?

• 14:33Speaker 03

  I'm not big on Florida. No offense to Floridians, it's not them, it's the government, a situation.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Political situation.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  But he's okay?

• 14:40Speaker 03

  He lives in Florida, and hopefully he will not be living there for that much longer. Because that's not a place that I am interested in. No, no, no, I will never live with a man. Not, not full time.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  No, I'm not interested in that.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Even if you're deeply in love?

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, if we're deeply in love, you know, like, I like long distance and I like space. So when I'm working, like, I'm here in New York working for the next couple of days, I want to be alone. I don't want somebody, you know, a plus one around.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you're very independent.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So aside from making your own money, what are the ways that other women can be more independent? Maybe not to your extreme?

• 15:18Speaker 03

  No, no, right. I'm not a, yes, I understand that. I think that, A, one, one way to, well, A, yeah, you should be trying to make your own money, definitely. But also, I think women's outlook towards men has shifted in like the last 10 years, at least from what I can tell, where there are many women that like are thinking about not being married. You're not married.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  There and you have a baby.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  We have a baby. I feel like that's beyond, that's, that's marriage plus.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, great, exactly. So there's a lot of women that are thinking like what you're thinking. And also, marriage seems a lot, like a bit antiquated, and I agree with that. I feel like there's not really a reason to get married anymore, really. You know what I mean? Like.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  It's just for a big fat party.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's like, I find, I find the need or the, I deal with this a lot on my podcast, where people call in for advice, right?

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I listened to it. I was like, she's like, she's a sex therapist, a relationship. She's just, she's become a therapist.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, basically.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I took all the things that I learned and gleaned from therapy and then just wanted to spit them right back out.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  It's really entertaining.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  I know, thank you, I like it.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  It seems like you're enjoying, it gets deep.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  It gets quite serious, yeah, sometimes. I didn't intend for that to happen, so I'm like, but you know, if somebody really needs help, I want to help them. But I think my advice to women would be like, to not be so desperate to find your quote unquote "one" or "the one." I think that's a load of garbage that we've all been fed, and this is coming from someone who's very interested in the relationship that I'm in right now, although I don't look at it attached to the outcome of the relationship. Like, he's here today, he could be gone next week.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Does he have kids?

• 16:57Speaker 03

  No, and I won't be having kids with anyone.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  So if he does want kids, he's gonna have to do that with his next girlfriend.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  I mean, you've made that very clear for a long time.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  If he has any questions about that, he could just refer to my Instagram.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, or one of your books.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  But.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Does he have a name?

• 17:11Speaker 03

  Cowboy is his name.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Okay, huh.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  And.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  That's all you're gonna give me?

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, but he doesn't need his name out there. I know, I'd like to maintain some sort of privacy for him.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Since when?

• 17:21Speaker 03

  Just since, since I've been around the block a couple of times and I realize how I can just destroy people's lives, you know, by dating them, that all of a sudden they're out there.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  It's a fair point.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  In the public eye, it's not really fair.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I just, that would be my big advice, is to stop thinking about like that you're.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Urgency, but I think the urgency of meeting a man comes from wanting to have children.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  Sometimes, but sometimes it's just about like finding the one and not necessarily even taking into account the what comes after that, you know what I mean? It's like people want. To be in love so badly.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  And I think that that's.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  They want the idea of being in love.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we've been sold this pile of goods that tells you like your value as a woman comes from being married, being a wife, being a mother, all of those things. So I would implore women to really just think about what it is you want individually and then go from there instead of thinking that that's what you're supposed to do because society tells you you're supposed to do it. You can have a full life. I mean, obviously, my life is specific and unique, but you could have a very full life if you decide not to have a child without, you know, without all that stuff and being a single woman.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  No one shares those stories.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  I just, I want to take a second to acknowledge your posture. It's really good.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Wow, thank you.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Better than mine.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Really?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Well, you're so tall, you're probably always crouching over, right?

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't want to see anyone.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  I have to because my boobies are so big that I have to make sure that I'm not.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  That they stick out.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that they stick out. So people know that I'm coming.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  But now that you have a man, you don't need to do that anymore.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Or you need to do it more, I don't know.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Let's, can we talk about your career?

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Do you still consider yourself a comedian like first and foremost? And I ask that as like from a point of view of like an identity is when I used to, like being an athlete was a huge part of my identity and it only had a certain limit, but the qualities, like the things that I learned in my experience through being an athlete is just continues to run through my life. Like even when I, even when I fill out forms and they say, what's your occupation? Even though I don't know what the hell my occupation is at the moment, I still write athlete.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Well, now it's podcaster.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Well, whatever.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Athlete slash podcaster.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  What would you write?

• 19:32Speaker 03

  That's a great, I, I think that every time I'm asked that and I just settle, I've settled on comedian. Because it's like, when am I going to write author? You know, like I, I have thought about that, but I don't identify. Yeah, I guess I strongly identify with the term comedian.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  And you're proud of it?

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I'm proud of it. I mean, I think of myself as more like, I feel like a public figure. Do you know what I mean? Like, but that's how I feel like I feel like it's not one thing or another. I just feel like I'm out there.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  What do you feel is your responsibility as a comedian?

• 20:04Speaker 03

  To bring joy and laughter and medicine, because people need it.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  More so now than ever.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want people to be happy and to remember like kindness, the kindness of strangers, to double down on like joyfulness and laughter. Like laughter is really so important and healing and for being able to be like a perpetrator of that, to be able to get on stage and make people forget about how crazy the world is for an hour makes me feel very purposeful.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think maybe a few years back, it was like purely entertainment, but now there's like a deeper.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  When we get a chance to go and enjoy someone's performance and feel like it impacts our view, or like if when I was competing and someone's had a really crab day and they watch me have a really crab day on the court, but I figure it out and I win.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Like to have that impact.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  I feel like it's not just a moment, like it's a feeling.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  It is, it's a feeling and it's like you find it. I guess, you know, for me, I think, and I think over the course of our lives, our purpose changes quite often. I mean, you're, we're talking about it right now with you, right? Like your purpose changes, like you're living, I think for our youth a lot, we're living for ourselves, like what can I do? What do I want? What can I get? What, what am I, you know, what? And then I think as you kind of get older, you're like, what am I giving out? What am I? It's not just take, take, take. It's like, okay, let me share.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  It's hard to acknowledge that in your twenties, thirties. I think that develops over time.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Because you're trying to identify who you are. So then you find your identity and then you like burrow into that, right?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  And you want to feed it.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  And you want to be as successful as possible.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  And then something happens.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  And then you get successful and you're like, well, what is it?

• 21:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, what is this? And then you're like, is this enough? Is this good enough? Is this enough of a contribution? And then you kind of recognize the selfishness in which you've led your life, or for me anyway, that's how I felt like, oh, I'm pretty selfish. You know, like what, I just need another. Big house, or like, what do I need? More money? Like, what? You know, and so that, then you start to kind of self-examine.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  What's your relationship to money? Like, how do you?

• 22:13Speaker 03

  I like it.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you've always liked it from a young age. Like, you flew first class since you were.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  I mean, you earned it.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I earned my own money and I like to spend my own money and I like to share money.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  You do.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  I'm very generous and I always.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  You're a generous tipper.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Thank you, always.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  You've always, like, you're also very generous emotionally. Like, I remember, yeah, no, at the time, like, when I was really struggling in my career and I had a tough moment and I had the suspension, you called me every single day.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  And you checked in on me and you were like, this asshole wrote this bad piece about you. But then there was like 10 others that were really positive. So I think today we're doing OK. To have someone check in, so you're, you give.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  That's nice, thank you.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  No, it's true. It's, it's, um, when anyone speaks about you. And because they always, like, people always see talent and, you know, famous figures in the own, in, in a very, in a light that they want to, like, they have an idea and that's what they associate with that idea. And I'm sure when I say, oh, I'm interviewing Chelsea Handler, like, something comes up, right? And whether it's positive or negative, like, they already have an opinion, whether it's about me, whether it's about you. Um, but the first thing I say is how generous you are.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Oh, that's so nice, thank you.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  No, it's true. You've come up in, in a very different media era, very different to how it is now, like, with social media. If you were building, if you were starting to build your career today, how would you do it differently?

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, I wouldn't even know where the fuck to begin. I wouldn't know how to do any of this because I've lived through, like, and I, I mean, you two, even though you're younger than me, like, we've lived, I lived, I got my first phone, like, the internet came out when I was, like, 19 years old. So I have my original email address, like, I have an AOL account still.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  What was your password?

• 24:01Speaker 03

  Um, 0253.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Mine was love and peace.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Well, I, mine still is 0253, so please don't get into my account. I've been hacked. I've lived through the technology age. Now we're dealing with AI.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Like, I don't even know. It's too much of a whirlwind. I guess I would just start recording videos of myself. You know, it's probably not dissimilar.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  In your underwear and bra.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, and start telling jokes or telling funny stories in the way in which I am known for now. And I would just be outspoken and, and probably just do what everybody else was doing. I don't know that I would have some great, grand idea, or I might just be so overwhelmed by it that I wouldn't even try.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Be too nervous. Do you feel like you constantly have to feed this, this algorithm, like just constantly providing content?

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Um, it's pretty natural for me to provide content, so I don't feel like desperate in a sense. I just feel like, oh, that's easy. Let me make it. I like these kinds of videos. These are the reason, you know, like, let's do.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Are you strategic about it?

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Uh, I mean, I have a social media team and I like kind of let them handle things.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  I need a little bit of that.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably. It's, I mean, because I don't want to be.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  So what, you have an actual calendar of like when you're going to post something?

• 25:09Speaker 03

  They do. I mean, I don't have a calendar, but I mean, but like, you know, I'll be like, oh, I do this thing. Kids are not that great on my social media, so I'll film like five of those and then they'll put them out, you know, over the course of six months.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  What do you mean, kids are not that great on your social, like you don't have a lot of kids?

• 25:25Speaker 03

  Like a PSA, like, hey, you could be like, you could have a life like me too.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  You could be a parent like me.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  I get up and I smoke a joint and I get to have a cocktail at noon and then I get to take a Xanax at three. Kids, they're not that great, you know, like silliness like that. So I have like things like that that I do, but.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  So you are thoughtful. So my point is like, I don't think 20 years ago, you're really like curating.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  No.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  A calendar and acknowledging who this content is for.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  No.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Whereas now, we, we know.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you, I also have a lot of help. Like, I'm not trying, you know what I mean? I don't want to make it sound like I'm coming up with these.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Well, I think most people do.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, most people have like a social media person and, or a strategist or whatever, just to keep you, you know, relevant. And as pathetic as that, you know, can sound, I mean, just when I said it, I was like, oh, ah, but that's true. That's what it is.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  That's true. What, what do you, when I say influencer, what do you think of? Like what?

• 26:19Speaker 03

  I think of just like someone who's selling themselves.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  In a good way or bad way?

• 26:26Speaker 03

  I mean, it has a negative connotation, but it's the light, like, it's the reality of where we live, or the world we live in, I should say. I mean, I would be considered an influencer if I weren't a celebrity by now. You know what I mean?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Right, a bestselling author, or...

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Or, right, I would probably do that. But it definitely doesn't, it doesn't have a positive connotation.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Like, the word creator.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Creator doesn't have, to me, as negative as a connotation as influencer does. I guess creator's like the new influencer, right? Is that the new, like...

• 26:59Speaker 01

  I think it's the vanilla version of it.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  I think creator sounds a little bit more profesh.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  So when you're, like, thinking of brand deals or investments where you have to, you know, you have these, like, lists of deliverables and you have to act like an influencer, are you up for that?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Um, yeah.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  As long as they pay you well?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Whatever I do, I'm, have a good attitude about it. If I don't have a good attitude about it, then I don't do it. Like, if I can't get behind it and be like, okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm only gonna say something, say yes to something that, A, I really like, or B, that I'm gonna have fun doing. So if it's just like for money and a paycheck, I usually don't do stuff like that. You know, I don't...

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Like, for a lot of money, you wouldn't?

• 27:38Speaker 03

  Well...

• 27:39Speaker 01

  It depends.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Depends how much money, and it depends what it is.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  I'm not really like, you know...

• 27:44Speaker 01

  But it has to make sense.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  It does have to make sense. I definitely have done things that don't make a lot of sense.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 27:50Speaker 03

  And I've regretted them. I mean, I've done things for big paychecks.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Can I name them?

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Like, a brand or a private event? What?

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Any of the above. Like, for instance, like, as a comedian, you get asked to do a lot of corporate events, right? And they pay you a lot of money. Casinos pay you a lot of money. More money than you make at a theater. So you can say yes to those things and get a nice fat paycheck, or you could be like, that's miserable and I don't like the vibe there. Like, for me, a lot of casinos don't have the right vibe. Like, I perform at the Cosmo in Vegas.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  You're at the casino all the time. Why does that not make sense? Seems like such a natural connection.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  I have a residency at the Cosmo in Vegas. That makes sense. That's something my friends can come to.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Well, you can do that and then you can go like

• 28:36Speaker 03

  And then I gamble.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Get a little half million dollar check and.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I make, you know, I like that, but like going to a casino in the middle of Minnesota, where, you know, it's not the greatest environment and it's not fun for me, or it's not going to be, you know, like an elevated situation. No, I don't want to do that. And I don't want to have to do that.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  You've said in your book that you're not a big planner. Right, that you don't, you don't approach your career looking like five years ahead. But like, how do you, when you think of your career? I mean, there must be a strategy. Is there?

• 29:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  I don't plan for things. It's, it's basically.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  How do you plan for your next book? How do you plan for your next show?

• 29:16Speaker 03

  I.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  How does that start?

• 29:18Speaker 03

  It's just, it's just, I get a hair in my ass and then I'm like, okay, I got something. Like, I have, like, I believe very strongly that there is like a time to harvest and like, there's a time to plant and then there's a time to harvest. And sometimes you're just planting and, or sometimes you're just waiting in the middle. You're not doing anything. You're just, like, if, I can't force myself to come up with material if I'm not inspired. Usually it's sparked by me going on some crazy trip and I come back.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Or being in a relationship and breaking up.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. That's inspiring. Like, how do you.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Or not, and you want to write about it.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  But it, but it could be inspiring to other people. Like, that's what I mean to circle back to like, you know, one of my books was like, it was off the back of me breaking up with Joe Coy. And I was like, I was about to, I was supposed to write a book about falling in love. And then we broke up and I was like, I had this book deal and I'm like, all right, forget it. I'm not writing a book about, you know.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Wait, so they, they paid you for this book deal? And then you started writing and then you broke up?

• 30:18Speaker 03

  And then I said, okay, here I'll give you-

• 30:19Speaker 01

  We're pivoting.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  I said, I'll give you the money back. Like, I can't, I'm not writing a book about being in love. We just broke up. And they said, why don't you write a book about breaking up? I said, I'm not writing a book about breaking up. That's not inspiring. So then I said, give me six months and let me see if I have something in me. And so I took six months and I thought, do I have something? And I started writing things and then it turned into my last book, which had a couple of chapters about my relationship with Joe Coy, or the breakup, I should say. But it wasn't about a breakup. It was about how to pick yourself up after a breakup. And the book was about much more than that. So I think I always just, I can't do something fraudulently. Like, I have to have, feel it. And I have the luxury of being able to do that in my life where I don't have to take money. So I know not everybody has that luxury. So I, I recognize that every single fucking day of my life, believe me.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  But you're also a workaholic. Like, you don't stop.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  I do work a lot, yes.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  You work a lot.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  I tour. So right now, I'm here for three days and then I have like three shows. Then I go home and then I work for five days. You know, like, I have lots of shit going on.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  You're in it.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  So I like that. I don't know that I, I mean, I like the, my lifestyle and I like to afford a certain lifestyle. So there's definitely that element, you know? But I'm not-

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Is it a pressure of maintaining that lifestyle?

• 31:30Speaker 03

  I mean, I definitely have grown accustomed to my lifestyle. And I would like to keep things rolling.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  So-

• 31:37Speaker 01

  So you're keeping it up?

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I'm keeping it up, but I don't dislike working. I like working. So I don't think, you know, so it's definitely, there's gonna be a time where I get and be like, okay, how much do I want to continue working this hard?

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you work hard.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thank you.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  You write a lot. Like, what is it like when you, when you have a book deal? And you know there's something that needs to be delivered? What is your process like?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  My stand-up and my writing, it's like, they kind of go together and overlap a lot. So like, if I'm telling a story on stage and it's really funny, and that's usually like the funniest parts of the story, because it's stand-up. But if I really want to like get into that story and write about it in a book, I have to get into the details and set the scene and talk about all the characters that are part of that story. And that is like a nice little avenue of exploration for me. Like, as a creative person, I like to do that because- Because then you're like assigning, you have characters and it's like, oh, my brother and sister were there and let me give them lines. And then like, what did they say and who else was there? Like, for example, there was a story in my last book about going to the Bush compound, Kenny Bunkport in Maine. We were renting a house there for a month. And I, and I'm friends with the Bush sisters.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  And they were like, oh, had heard I was in the area. And so they invited us over to pickleball, play pickleball. I know that's one of your favorite things.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  That should have been your first time.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Well, I was not interested in going. Just on the record, I was not interested in going to Kenny Bunkport. I did not want to be seen with George W. Bush. I didn't even want to meet George W. Bush. They guarantee, I said to them, sissies, I will, everyone at my house wanted to go over there. I had about 10 people with brothers, sisters, friends that were staying with me. They were like, do not take this opportunity away from us because of your political bullshit. And I'm like, listen, I, my back was out. I was not in the mood. I would, I hate pickleball. I had no reason to go over there. But yet I did it for the group, right? So we get there and the, and I, Barbara Bush promised me, she said, sissy, I said, I do not want to meet your father because I do not want to disrespect your father. And I don't know that I can trust my personality in this moment. I have outbursts.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  And she promised me that I would not meet her father. And within five minutes of landing at their house and pickleball game starting, guess whose father I met? Hers. George W. Bush.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Did you control yourself?

• 33:49Speaker 03

  I did. I had lots of edibles that day because I knew I was going somewhere where I did not agree with them. And I did not want to do that. I didn't want to behave badly in someone else's house. That's terrible. You know what I mean? So I had a lot of drugs. My brother said to take two edibles. My sister said, take three. So I took three. That subdued my personality. And I was able to go over, what was the question again? How to, oh, oh, this is, I remember. We're talking about writing. So like, that story is full of ridiculousness. Like, my brother came over. My brother didn't even recognize him at first. So he was like, oh, my God, is that the president? We're like, yeah, you idiot. How do you not know who one of the

• 34:30Speaker 03

  presidents was, is? And there were a lot of funny things about that story. Sophie was with us, our mutual friend. And she was with us at that.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  So do you go home that evening and just start writing?

• 34:41Speaker 03

  No, it just marinates in my brain and we start telling the story. And then I start repeating the story and then I start realizing how funny it is. And people are laughing at this part and that part. And then I emphasize things and I exaggerate little things here and there for the purpose of storytelling. And then I'm like, all right, I'm going to put this in my stand up.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  So you're testing the material before you put it in writing?

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I tested it and then by virtue of that, thank you. By virtue of doing that, then that usually leads to me putting it in my book, like, or vice versa. Like, I'll put it in my book and be like, okay, this will be funny for stand up, but I have to make it truncated and make it much shorter. So, but most of my books, like, I mean, you know, are inspired by things that have actually happened. You know, the stories are true, they're not made up. You know, some of them are embellished or put together like as one story, even though there were two separate stories.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Some of them should be embellished.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Is there, is there something that you haven't achieved yet that you'd want to achieve?

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Well, I'm, I just, we just sold a show to Hulu where I will be playing a washed up reality star whose daughter comes back. She has, is a strange daughter and she comes back into her life. This woman does not want to be a mother. There's a lot of similarities between me and this woman. And it's based on the kind of culture of growing up in the time that I did with reality television, like the outs, you know, the onset of reality television. And all these kind of hot messes that come along with reality television. And so I would be acting and starring in the show. I will be acting and starring in the show, so I haven't done that yet.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Did you pitch the show yourself?

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did with a writer.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Did you write it?

• 36:16Speaker 03

  No, a writer named Zoe wrote it.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  So how does that work? You, you come together with a writer, you have an idea, she puts it on paper and then you sell it?

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, we, we basically kind of like worked together for a few months, preparing the pitch, preparing the idea. Then you go out to all the, the networks, the platforms and you pitch the show and then whoever buys it, buys it.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  The best bidder?

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do you want to pitch a show?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Not yet.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Well, that seems like it might be next for you.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Who knows?

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're good with investments, though.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  You're also, no?

• 36:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  You've made some bad ones?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've made some bad investments.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Can I hear one bad one?

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I invented 200, I invented. I invested $250,000 into Nude Sticks, the makeup brand. And then they went bankrupt.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  How soon after your investment?

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Uh, about seven years.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Oh, well, at least it was like a slow burn.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So that was misguided and, you know, I wouldn't have done, I don't know why I did that. That wasn't really thought out. I just thought, somebody asked me if I'd invest and I was like, sure, yeah, no problem.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  I mean, 250 is quite a big check for something that you're not familiar with.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  You learned your lesson.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  I think so. I think I learned my lesson about that.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  What's been one of your best investments?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  I just invest, well, it hasn't been yet. I mean, but it is already because I invested in Love Volleyball.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  The team.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  I'm an investor in that.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, you are. Oh, great. Yeah. So that's a great investment.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Can we go to a game together?

• 37:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. I'm dying to go to a game.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Okay, let's go.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll do that.

• 37:52Speaker 04

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• 39:58Speaker 01

  I only have a few questions left. Actually, these are five pretty tough questions.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Are you gonna ask me to spell something? Because I'm ready.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  No, I'm not gonna ask you. No. What is something you've had to unlearn?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  To not insert myself into everyone's problems and try to help everybody. Some people don't want help.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Right. And you're not Mother Teresa.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  And I'm not Mother Teresa.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Definitely not.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  So stop it. And let people ask for help if they want it.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Accurate. What's a routine that's helped shape your success?

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Working out every day when I wake up.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  It's funny, so many women have that same answer.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Because it just makes you feel strong and like

• 40:37Speaker 01

  The frame of mind.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Gives you a clarity of mind. Like sweating in the morning is the best thing you could do.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  So true.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  And it sounds, you know, kind of like obvious, but it's just a great way to start your day. I like being

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Because if you don't accomplish anything else, at least you did something

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. I like to, I like to do that. I love, yeah. I've actually really grown to love working out, which is a sentence I never thought I would say.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I know. I see your workouts. You're like

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, hardcore.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  I think you're like stronger than I am.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  I bet I am. I bet I could beat the shit out of you.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  You're a better skier. You're better. You're stronger.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Um, what's a common misconception about you?

• 41:15Speaker 03

  I mean, who knows? You tell me, you tell me. I would, you would know more about misconceptions than I would know about myself.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  No, but what's one that you've heard? Cause you like to, like you, you're not afraid of reading other people's

• 41:28Speaker 03

  Just that I

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Opinion about you.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Probably that I'm difficult. Like, I'm, I'm not difficult. I'm pretty straightforward. Like, I'm not drama. I don't have any drama. I mean, I do, you know, there's drama in all of our lives, but I'm not a, I'm not difficult. I don't, I'm not trying to like play games or be cagey, you know?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  No, you're definitely not. What is your relationship to perfection?

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Um, I'm not a perfectionist. I'm pretty like, I'm pretty, I, I, I still don't love the, my relationship with my body. I still am very judgmental about my body. Yeah, I love my body. I love what like, I like the way I look. I'm glad that I put so much effort into it. But I still am very

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Aware?

• 42:08Speaker 03

  Aware of, oh, if I feel like I haven't worked out in a couple of days, or I feel bloated, like, I just want that narrative to get out of my mind because I would never want any woman I know to feel that way. So I, I, I could get better on that.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  How are you gonna get better?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  My body image. I don't know. I just have to keep trying. And one day you get there.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  How's your body image?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Not as good as it was when I was playing.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Really?

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Well, cause I was like, strong.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Right, but you don't feel strong?

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Not as strong as I did, no.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Not physically.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  I guess women all have this

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I've also had a kid.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  And it's just like your body, no matter what you do, your body is never the same.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  I know you don't know that.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  I don't know that, no.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Okay. What makes you feel tough?

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Um, giving it to men straight, you know?

• 43:01Speaker 01

  I die.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, letting a man know, like, don't come any closer and don't fuck with me. It makes me feel pretty good.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  What makes you feel pretty?

• 43:10Speaker 03

  When I have no makeup on and I'm skiing, you know, then I feel cute.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Natural.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  Like, I feel cute when I'm like, not dolled up and stuff.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Right, not trying to be-

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Like, when I get dolled up, I start to feel powerful.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  Professional.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  I put on high heels and I'm like-

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Professional.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  Okay, you have to be in the control seat, you're the driver. Like, I really like not being the driver. Like, I was saying this to my friend the other day, like, I will always lead in a situation that requires a leader, but I'd rather not be the leader. I'd rather somebody more capable. But if there is no one more capable, then I'm totally down to do it, but I'd rather not do it.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  But which happens most of the time.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  But I'd rather not lead.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Because you can't help yourself.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I know, I know, but I just feel like-

• 43:47Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  It's just more efficient sometimes, you know, to get myself in there and start steering the ship. I just feel like, let's go, come on.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  This is all I have for you. This was, okay, okay, we did all right.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  I think this was successful, okay.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  This was very nice.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Goodbye.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Thanks for listening to this special episode of Pretty Tough. Happy Memorial Day. We'll be back with a new episode of On With Kara Swisher on Thursday.

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