Peek Inside the Club You Can't Join, with Jeff Klein

Kara talks to hotelier and hospitality entrepreneur Jeff Klein about the global private club boom. Klein is the founder of the San Vicente clubs, ultra-exclusive, members-only clubs in Los Angeles and New York. Klein explains how our era of loneliness and digital exhaustion paved the way for the resurgence of members-only clubs and why privacy is the ultimate luxury. He and Kara discuss his path from working as a bellman in New York to owning the Sunset Tower Hotel in West Hollywood, and how he transformed a run-down “sin bin” into the San Vicente Bungalows. Plus: how Klein plans to grow and scale his business while keeping its soul. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Kara Swisher?

  It's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like, rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club.

• 0:22Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Jeff Klein, a hotel owner, hospitality entrepreneur, and founder of the San Vicente Clubs. They're private members-only clubs that have become popular with celebrities and many others in Los Angeles and New York. Klein was early to the now booming private club scene, and he's looking to expand his clubs globally. Before San Vicente, Klein opened several boutique hotels and restaurants, including the Sunset Tower Hotel in Hollywood. He has a knack for taking distressed historic properties and transforming them into chic, distinctive spaces. I want to talk to Jeff because he has a real joy of entrepreneurship. And I always talk to tech entrepreneurs, or maybe media entrepreneurs,

• 1:05Kara Swisher?

  but hospitality entrepreneurs are very interesting, and they put together a lot of things. And right now, there's a real moment where people really are valuing community and spaces and gatherings. And it's something I talk about in my CNN special, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever, about social connections being really important. And I think Jeff has exquisite taste and sort of a joy of life that I think is a wonderful thing to have in an entrepreneur. And he makes beautiful things, and he doesn't go too far with it. And I appreciate that as an entrepreneur. Our expert question today comes from another fantastic entrepreneur, Chip Conley, in the hospitality space. He's incredibly well-known, and I was thrilled that he got to ask Jeff a question. So stick around.

• 1:47Kara Swisher?

  A quick note before we get to the interview. I'm doing a special live episode of On with Kara Swisher with guest Marc Maron on the opening night of the Tribeca Film Festival Podcast Day. It's June 8 at 8 p.m. Tickets are available at tribecafilm.com/audio. So see you there.

• 2:08Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from The Guardian and their new show, Stateside, where journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman use the entire independent reporting resources of The Guardian to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what is actually happening in the world. Join Kai and Carter three times a week as they utilize all the reporting resources The Guardian has across news, international coverage, climate, culture, wellness, and more. And The Guardian's not owned by a billionaire, they fearlessly report the facts without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more. And listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's theguardian.com/stateside.

• 2:52Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow, none of them ever talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free at Odoo.com/kara. That's O-D-O-O dot com slash Kara.

• 3:36Speaker 01

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• 4:17Kara Swisher?

  Jeff, thanks for coming on, On.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 4:20Kara Swisher?

  So you're nervous about coming on and you called yourself the gay Larry David, which made me laugh, but you have nothing to worry about. I'm very interested in your business and where it's going, especially right now. So why don't you explain yourself, what you do. You've built a successful business by seeing the potential that others miss. You've rehabilitated multiple distressed and neglected properties that weren't obvious candidates for luxury clubs or boutique hotels. And imagine what they could become. I want you to talk about what you do and talk about your sort of overarching philosophy and what you look for when you're thinking about this right now.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question because I think people often don't, they confuse what I'm selling. I mean, I'm really, I'm not selling dinner or drinks or a room. You know, those are really delivery systems and what I'm selling or trying to sell is a belonging and a psychological safety, kind of like trusted human interaction, atmosphere, obviously, access to a certain emotional experience, I would say, and feeling a part of something that's curated and meaningful. People think we're selling luxury hospitality, but we're not. We're really selling human connection in an environment where people can actually relax and be themselves.

• 5:36Kara Swisher?

  Talk about exactly what you do so people can understand your business.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Well, I started in the hotel business. I started as a bellman right after college and I worked for someone who really taught me the hotel business from the ground up, literally became my mentor, same boss. And I went into the hotel business, so I've always been in hospitality my whole life. In about 2010, Soho House opened in Los Angeles and they invited me to be a founding member for free. And I said, no, because I was like, that place will never survive.

• 6:10Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, you were skeptical initially.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Very skeptical and I thought, who would pay membership fees, you know, to go to a place like this? And I couldn't have been more wrong. And what I noticed was that it was very powerful when it came to town. And I felt like I could do it better. I felt like I could create a better atmosphere with a better menu and better service and a better curation of the crowd. And that's when I found the first San Francisco Bungalows, which is a private membership club. And now there's three of them, two in Los Angeles and one in New York.

• 6:47Kara Swisher?

  Right. And you have also the hotel business.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Right. I'm a part owner in the Sunset Tower. I sold a piece of it. I have a partner in it. And I started in the hotel business. And the hotel business is what allowed me to go into the private membership business because essentially I applied all of that knowledge of how to create an experience for a customer and how to deliver food and beverage and whatnot. And the piece that I had to learn was the membership piece, which is not easy. And I made a lot of mistakes. But I think, you know, the reason I'm saying that is because what's harder is today, you're seeing like a lot of people trying to go into the membership club business.

• 7:26Kara Swisher?

  Let's talk about this boom, because there's a real private club boom now. Private members only clubs are on the rise in cities across the US. There's nothing new about them, especially in New York. And London has like, that's how people socialize. And they were a fixture in social life during the Gilded Age. But now we're seeing private clubs in places like Jacksonville, Florida, Lexington, Kentucky. Talk about what's driving this wave. And as you noted, the Soho House is credited with helping spark the private club boom. It opened its first club in London in 1995 and has more than 46 locations and over 200,000 members. So, so talk a little bit about why the boom is happening here in this country and maybe compare it to somewhere like London.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, clubs are booming because people are profoundly lonely and digitally exhausted. Technology has connected everyone, but emotionally it's disconnected people from each other. And a lot of institutions that used to create repeated human interaction weakened, like churches, town halls, civic groups, even offices after COVID. And so people are still, you know, people still fundamentally need

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Tribes and ritual and familiarity and belonging and clubs are filling part of that vacuum. The more digital life becomes, the more valuable physical human interaction becomes. I mean, there's just, I notice it every day and I feel kind of lucky. I always say I would rather be lucky than smart, you know, because we're really providing a sense of community. And people are like, oh, well, do you think there's too many clubs? I think the opposite. I think we're going to notice a lot more clubs in the future. And the good ones are going to understand how to find their niche. Trying to be everything to everyone, I think, is where these clubs are getting into trouble.

• 9:15Kara Swisher?

  Right, or too expensive. There used to be, you know, various clubs around New York was everyone belonged to it. And again, in London, everyone has a club and has had it for hundreds of years, correct? There is a sort of a comfort and it's not necessarily just for the rich, correct? Not for the super rich, although this tends to be the demo you have.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think my demo is super rich.

• 9:38Kara Swisher?

  Not super rich, okay, but with some funds.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Look, I think today, most social interaction is transactional and it's scheduled and it's online. And I think people are willing to actually pay for this, which is why I don't think they're necessarily rich. You know, younger people are joining in droves, honestly. Younger generations grew up online. Ironically, that's made real life interaction feel more novel and valuable to them. I believe it's what I'm noticing. There are these clubs for the rich, you know, which are super expensive. You know, there's golf clubs that are like a million dollars and there's other clubs that are super expensive. So I think people are willing to splurge on this because I think it's much more meaningful. I mean, what I'm also noticing

• 10:26Speaker 02

  When I talk to some of our younger members, because I'm like, look, I wouldn't be able to afford this when I was, you know, thirty-two. What they're saying is I'd rather spend this on like an expensive bag, or because it's an experience and it's, and as we know, young people love experiences. And getting a piece of clothing, or a special watch, or even a car, is not, it's no longer important to them because it's so available. I mean, you can just go online, even on Amazon, you can buy all these like ridiculous luxury goods. So I think they are spending money differently. And I think I'm lucky in that clubs are the recipient of one of those things.

• 11:09Kara Swisher?

  So when you talk about people have to find their niche, what do you mean by that? Because there could be too many copycats, right? As you were noting earlier.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there are copycats. I mean, look, I can only talk about my niche, which is pretty specific. I mean, this is going to sound like a little haughty, but I always, well, my aspiration, and when I like talk to the people that I work with, is I want to be the Hermes of clubs. I don't necessarily want to have the most clubs or the coolest clubs, but I do want to have the best ones. And that means that they're very individual in each location. They're very specific to that location. They're part of the fabric of the community of that location. I don't want them to be hot, where it's like,

• 11:57Speaker 02

  you know, the Kardashians are there every night, or whatever. It should feel like it's

• 12:03Kara Swisher?

  Not a club. It's not.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like your second home, almost. And I, I think that it also comes down to the quality of the club members. And we're really tough about that.

• 12:13Kara Swisher?

  Well, your clubs are notoriously hard to get into. According to one estimate, there's roughly seven thousand person waitlist. You prioritize candidates who are engaging, and you reject a lot of billionaires, saying that, quote, "Just because someone has money doesn't make them interesting." I know this, Jeff. You know I know this. So talk about your criteria and give us a window into how you think about that, then, if you're trying to create not just experiences, but it's Scott was saying, Scott belongs to 900 clubs essentially because he's desperate for something that he's never gonna get, a hole, an empty hole that shall never be filled. But you can, you're laughing, but it's true. But, but talk about crowd curation, what you mean by that, and what you're trying to do, and maybe compare it to others.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we're definitely not looking for the richest people. We're looking for people who make the environment better. And it's really hilarious because people are always saying, "Oh, my God, he's a billionaire. Why don't you take them?" And it's like, no, who cares if he's a billionaire? I mean, no one's gonna walk in and say, and by the way, that, you know, it just doesn't make them interesting. It's just another, you know, rich white guy, really, at the end of the day. So I think what matters is curiosity matters, kindness matters, creativity matters, social intelligence matters, energy. We want people that are additive to the atmosphere. The mistake people make is assuming exclusivity means wealth. Wealth alone is not very interesting. And we're trying to create a chemistry in the room.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  And so I think that, you know, we're curating behavior and culture as much as demographics. It's hard to do. I mean, you know, there is a whole process and there's a committee and, but I think that, you know, back to my Hermes analogy, that's part of the quality that we're trying to deliver. So unlike Hermes where the product is maybe stitching and leather, for us, this is part of our product and it's really, we have to be really tough about it.

• 14:09Kara Swisher?

  Right. What does the committee do? Do you all meet and like start drinking or what happens?

• 14:13Speaker 02

  We don't drink.

• 14:14Kara Swisher?

  Talk about the process and the committee.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  So there's an application. Well, the, the greatest question on the application, I have to admit. I mean, I feel like I'm gonna ruin it. We're gonna need to find another one after everybody hears this. The best question is, what's your favorite restaurant and why? And it says so much about a person. So we ask other more traditional questions like, please tell us who you are and tell, we also have a great question where we say, you know, are you single? And if not, please tell us about your other person and show us a picture. That also tells a lot about them. But the restaurant piece.

• 14:51Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I want to know why that.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Well, because if you get somebody that's like, I love Club Saint Con Saint in Saint-Tropez, we're kind of like, that's not the right person for this.

• 15:01Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  You know, and it kind of catches them off guard because Saint Con Saint may be their favorite restaurant. Nothing against Saint Con Saint, it's a great restaurant. It's just not my thing.

• 15:10Kara Swisher?

  Very expensive.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Very expensive. And it's, it's just not, you know.

• 15:15Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I know. I've been there. I was dragged there. I did not pay. I will only go if I do not. Yes, of course.

• 15:23Kara Swisher?

  No, it was actually during Con Lions. I don't remember who dragged me, but it was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I liked it though. I liked seeing it. I like seeing it. It's like, here, look at this.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Anthropological, anthropologically, you have to go there.

• 15:36Kara Swisher?

  Yes, exactly.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  It's like, but it's not like where I'd want to go.

• 15:41Kara Swisher?

  I used to call it forced fun. Forced fun is how I felt about it.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  For, yes, that's right.

• 15:45Kara Swisher?

  Forced fun. It was like everyone was paying so much and therefore they had to have fun or else. So it was funny. I will tell you my favorite restaurant, Anchor Bar in San Francisco in the Castro. Small, tiny.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  See, that's a great answer.

• 15:57Kara Swisher?

  That's my absolute favorite place on the earth.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  It's authentic. It's special. You would probably lean into why it's your favorite, which I'd like to hear.

• 16:06Kara Swisher?

  Wonderful. Everybody, well, it's small. You have to wait for it. It's got amazing food. It's always a lot of the same stuff, but it's always delicious seafood and oysters and chipino. And I've taken my kids there their whole lives. My kids and I love going there. And it's my happy place and one of my happy places in San Francisco.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  I see. I love, that's a great answer. I was going to give another example, you know, some little restaurant in Uruguay that somebody took their grandmother and now she's no longer, you know, like whatever, it tells you a lot about a person when they answer that question.

• 16:34Kara Swisher?

  So you're just trying to get an interesting person and it depends on what strikes you as interesting, right? It's not necessarily, I'll take all the quirky people kind of thing.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  No, but we like quirky. Yes, I mean, and, you know, I hate to use this word because it's being overused, but diversity is important. I don't just mean racial diversity, but like, we will not accept a man if we don't accept a woman. Like sexual diversity, I was so excited when the first trans person applied. And we have a few trans people in all the clubs. But, and then also occupational diversity. So like, one of the things that happened in Los Angeles that we had to kind of slow down was there were just too many people in the entertainment industry applying. In New York, there were too many people from the banking

• 17:24Speaker 02

  industry applying. And age diversity, you know, some clubs focus on only young people. We, I always say the best party is a wedding.

• 17:32Kara Swisher?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  And it has all three generations.

• 17:36Kara Swisher?

  My weddings are good.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  It is, right?

• 17:37Kara Swisher?

  You're right.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  And we're, we're create-

• 17:38Kara Swisher?

  Or the worst party. It's either the best part-

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Right, if it's a bad wedding.

• 17:42Kara Swisher?

  But it's still good and it's bad.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  But we're trying to create the greatest dinner party every day and every night. So that's how you think about it. Like, well, who are you going to invite to your wedding? And who are you going to invite to that list? I mean, look, the thing, the boundaries piece of it, which I think you were alluding to, like, every meaningful community has boundaries. I mean, universities do, churches do, neighborhoods do. The real question is whether the culture inside of those boundaries creates something valuable and human, which is what my job is to deliver.

• 18:14Kara Swisher?

  Right, right. So privacy is a big part of your brand. You said that it's the ultimate luxury today. And that seems like a direct reaction to the way cameras on smartphones, social media anxiety-

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 18:25Kara Swisher?

  And influencer culture have changed nightlife-

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:27Kara Swisher?

  And made it difficult for people to let loose in public. Not that they're going to be embarrassed, but they just don't want to have it, like, especially if a lot of, you have some celebrities in Los Angeles, for example, same thing in New York. And you noted, people are digitally exhausted. And from your perspective, talk about this, how social media has changed the host- Hospitality and you see and would be seeing this resurgence of private clubs without it. Cause I think there is a plus for that with people. You're the only place I let put a sticker on my phone, which I'm like, I'm happy to do it. They, when you get there for people to know, they just slap a frigging sticker on your phone and you don't pick it up. You do not pick it up, even when you want to just look something up. I don't even do that.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Well, that's exactly what we're trying to do. I mean, the sticker is really just a reminder of this is the time to leave the digital world behind. We don't allow phone calls. We don't allow photos. I wish I could say no texting and Googling and everything. I don't because people are like, well, my child, I need to know if my child at home, which I understand, or you know, I have an important thing happening at work. I might need to hear from my partner or whatever. But so I, I think we're one of the, the few places where it, it is like, like, you know, you're forced to talk to people and live and connect. Privacy changes human behavior. The second people feel watched or filmed, they stop being themselves and start performing.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  And so, you know, conversation changes, vulnerability disappears and spontaneity disappears. Creativity drops.

• 20:00Kara Swisher?

  And that's for everyone, not just say a famous person who doesn't want to get.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  That's for everyone. We created a place where people can really exhale. The product isn't secrecy. It's psychological safety. And I think that's also like what people don't understand. You know, modern life is like so performative. I mean, I don't look at Instagram that much, but it's like, when I look on Instagram, I'm like, why are they filming their avocado toast? Like, I don't care about their avocado toast. People.

• 20:25Kara Swisher?

  Well, it is delicious, but go ahead. I mean, but what, but talk about this idea of social media anxiety and it's sort of, it's changed nightlife. Everybody has their phone up. You know, one of the things I used to do, I mean, I kind of created a club at the code conference many years ago. We did, we had, and it was exclusive, yet not. It was the people that got in were. We're not who you'd think necessarily, right? Sometimes we ding people who you'd imagine we let in. But one of the things I did is I created, as phones became more, in the early days, people weren't using them as much, but as it became clear, I had put together this amazing program, like Gates and Jobs, pay the fuck attention. Like, so I put a jammer in the room. Walt and I put a jammer that jammed signals. And everyone would be like, oh, my phone doesn't work.

• 21:09Kara Swisher?

  I'm like, really? Wow, shitty service. But I actually jammed it on behalf of them. Because I knew they would look at their phones and rather, I mean, I was like, I spent a lot of time getting these two people up on stage. So you need to focus in on what they're saying, kind of stuff.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  I love that. I should think of doing that.

• 21:27Kara Swisher?

  Jammers. I'll help you. I'll help you with the jammers. It's easy.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  That's a great idea.

• 21:32Kara Swisher?

  They're like, oh, it doesn't work. And then you go, oh, Verizon. Oh, they suck. Yeah. So talk about that idea of how it's changed nightlife, you know, especially in LA or New York or any of these cities.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I think, absolutely. I mean, to your point about celebrities, I mean, they feel intensely because, you know, fame follows them everywhere. And honestly, almost everyone feels some version of this now. Social media has turned life into performance. And so people don't live anymore. And I think that these spaces, you know, one of the things we're providing or trying to is like a space where they can live again. And they don't have to be scared of a photo being taken of them. I mean, I joke, like, you know, you want to be able to bring your wife one night and then your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever, the next night. And nobody can talk about it. Nobody can take a photo. I mean, there's no places like that.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  And I'm not saying it's right to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you have a wife.

• 22:32Kara Swisher?

  We don't judge on this show, but go ahead.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  But it's also like, you know, It also pertains to like business and I'll just say this because it was written about extensively when Ted Sarandos and Steven Spielberg were having this big war in Hollywood. Because Steven Spielberg was saying, you are not making movies because they're not on big screens, even if they're on a big screen for a week. It was a very public war and their makeup dinner, the first time they actually spoke, it was like in the Hollywood Reporter, it was in the New York Times. They went to dinner at the San Vicente as they should because they knew that nobody would take photos or talk about it.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, there was a guest of a member who was a publicist who called Page Six and leaked it to them. And we figured this out and we kicked out the guest. But in, of course, I'm giving an example where I didn't succeed because that's how I do. But you know, that was only one time that's happened. There's been like 10,000 other examples of. So it's also business. Like sometimes people don't want to be seen.

• 23:41Kara Swisher?

  And they want to go out.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  And they want to go out. So maybe, you know, they're about to sell their business to someone and they don't want people talking about. Everything's so public now.

• 23:52Kara Swisher?

  And transactional, as you said. And as you also know, it's not just a business thing, but there is the community aspect to it. And as you said, people don't go to church as much and fraternal organizations, there used to be the Lions Club, the Els Club, the Rotary Club. My grandfather belonged to, I think, all of those. They often built community around acts of service, but it was also social. Talk about the organizing principle of your community. People can have different reasons for going to these clubs.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  The organizing principle to us is really human chemistry. It's like trying to create an environment of interesting socially additive people who value discretion and curiosity and creativity and connection. You know, the, the community is really.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Organized around a shared desire for a certain kind of atmosphere that's less performative, more intimate, more thoughtful, more human. It's not organized around status or profession or any of that stuff. It's really organized around energy and behavior. And I think that's why we succeed and are desirable to so many people.

• 25:00Kara Swisher?

  So how do you deal with the status obsession with people? Like, I didn't get in here. I'm sure you get a lot of pushback.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  A lot, yeah. Yeah, I actually have a line that I cut and paste, like, when people will send me an email or a text, because what's unfortunate is, like, knowing me doesn't necessarily help. It has to be, it's a committee of people and they do, they spend a lot of time on this, so I don't, I never want to be like that dictator that overrules the committee's decisions. And I always say, it's really not you. It has more to do with, like, your age, your occupation, all these things, because we have enough of these people that are in your category. And that's really how I answer that.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  We're curating that emotional tone as much as we're curating a membership.

• 25:52Kara Swisher?

  Right. But when you, and the other thing I have with clubs is, sometimes I get asked to join some of them. You've never asked me, which is great, which is fantastic, but a lot of people ask me and I'm like, no. And same thing with rich team owners, like, come sit in my box. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. And they're like, what? And I go, I don't like sports and I don't want to sit. Well, it's an owner's box. I'm like, I like it even less. Like, I don't even know what you, like, I don't mind sitting in a stand, kind of thing. And so it's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like, rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Well, we would obviously love you to be a member, but I

• 26:33Kara Swisher?

  No, I can't do it.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  I feel like members,

• 26:35Kara Swisher?

  Have to walk.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  If somebody wants to be a member, they figure out how to apply.

• 26:39Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  And you know, you have to know a member to be nominated.

• 26:43Kara Swisher?

  No, I get it. I just don't like clubs. I don't, I never. I'm just not a club. I never go. I'm very.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Right. And you know, a lot of members. So I'm like assuming if you really wanted to.

• 26:51Kara Swisher?

  I love going there. And by the way, it's a beautiful experience, I have to say.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 26:54Kara Swisher?

  Even though you put stickers on my phone. Me, it's just, I just, I really just enjoy being home or going to the hardware store. But, and that's where my happiness is. And that's where my community is. I know it sounds weird, but I do. I actually go to one in my TV show. I go to my favorite, one of my favorite hardware stores. But, um, but that's weird sounding when I say it out loud. So populism is on the rise in the world. And here in the United States, the wealth inequality is this widest gap more than three decades. Talk to critics who say private clubs are a way for the rich to wall themselves off from the concerns, uh, reality of everyday people. Presumably they end up going to expensive restaurants if they don't go there. Right?

• 27:31Kara Swisher?

  That's the other option for people who are belong to country clubs or any number of things, you know, special vacation spots. So I'm not so sure it's that much of a, like a ding on private clubs. But talk a little bit about this in this, you know, sort of day and age, just sort of eat the rich thing is happening all over the place. And somewhat deservedly in some cases.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I would say partially, yes, luxury clubs obviously require financial means. But I think the deeper desire they're responding to is universal. I just can't tell you enough how much people want belonging, trust, intimacy, familiarity, and human connection. Wealth just allows you to execute those things at a very high level. So, you know, there, there could be clubs that are not as expensive, that deliver the same thing. Part of what my experience is, is an elevated experience. So it is going to cost me money. And then I have to charge money in return to deliver that.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  But like your hardware store example, if your hardware store wanted to charge $10 a month to come there and have a beer one day a week or something. Like that might be a club that's super cool because it's a club of, of, of common interests. I mean, that would be like what I was describing as a niche.

• 28:51Kara Swisher?

  My son goes, do you know this, the, the Giant Food here has a bar in it? And my son loves the bar at the Giant Food.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  I love that, really?

• 28:58Kara Swisher?

  Why do you go there? He goes, I don't know, I meet people I don't know. And we all sit around and have a beer while people are walking by with strawberries. And I don't know why I like it, but I do. And I'm like, okay. Cause I called him, like, where are you? He goes, it's a giant bar. I was like, Giant Food? Like it was, but I see the appeal. Like if he likes the community aspect. Another, my other son is going to church more. Like, and I never took him to church once and he loves it. And of course that is absolutely free, but he loves the community, I think. And that's what they're, especially younger people are seeking.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  I was just gonna say like churches are on the, I mean, did you see that article? I think it was in the Journal.

• 29:30Kara Swisher?

  My son is like that article. It's exactly right.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  It was really fascinating to me and it, it made total sense to me. And it, it really reminded me of my business because, you know, and they're meeting boyfriends and girlfriends or whatever at church. They're not even religious. I mean, I always say like, you know, we do all these programming events. We'll have like a ceramic painting class. And at first I would say like, who wants to learn how to paint ceramics? No one is, I mean, they're not really going for the ceramic painting. They're going to meet other people, to, to meet friends, to, you know, um, to, to meet new people, to know.

• 30:05Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  So I think, you know, just back to your thing about the wealthy. It's like historically private clubs were about status and access. And I think today they're more about emotional comfort and psychological self, safety.

• 30:22Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 30:35Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from The Guardian. Trying to locate news sources that reliably separate fact from fiction can seem like looking for a needle in a haystack these days. Social media feeds, cable news and subscription based news outlets might be able to give you one version of the news, but not in the way that you need. You want news fast, but slow enough to actually absorb the information. Stateside with Kai Wright and Carter Sherman is here to do just that. The podcast tries to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions regarding the world at large at your own pace. Three times a week, hosts Kai Wright and Carter Sherman bring their expertise together to showcase different and engaging perspectives regarding the world today. They will use their collective knowledge to discuss the

• 31:17Kara Swisher?

  news, international affairs, climate, culture, sports, lifestyle, fashion, and wellness. Plus, The Guardian wants to emphasize they're not billionaire-owned, meaning they're free to report the whole picture without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more and listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch on YouTube starting May 13. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. Have you ever Googled yourself and found your home address, phone number, or the name of a family member? It's unsettling. Here's what you do to clean up your online data footprint. Go to joindelete.me/kara and enter the code Kara. You get 20% off Delete Me. Delete Me removes your personal information

• 31:59Kara Swisher?

  that's being sold online. Delete Me was named the top pick for data removal services by Wirecutter, so you know you're in good hands. I really like Delete Me. I use it all the time. It's always surprising how much data people have about me. I am very privacy-forward, and I still find so much stuff of mine online, some of which is incorrect, some of which is compiled in a really disturbing way. And you have to sort of control it like weeds. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me. Now, at a special discount for our listeners, get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindelete.me/kara and use the promo code Kara at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindelete.me/kara and enter the code Kara at checkout. That's

• 32:44Kara Swisher?

  joindelete.me/kara, code Kara.

• 32:53Kara Swisher?

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• 33:38Kara Swisher?

  with your care team, so support is always in reach. Ready to reach your goals? Visit forhers.com/kara to access personalized, affordable care for weight loss, hair, menopause, and more. That's forhers.com/kara. Individual results may vary, and stopping treatment may result in weight regain.

• 34:00Kara Swisher?

  Let's take a step back and talk about your career. As I said, you didn't come from the private club world, as you mentioned. You began as a bellman at the Franklin Hotel in New York in 1993. I actually started in the mailroom of The Washington Post, so I feel that journey. And you worked your way through all the departments, including housekeeping, room service, front desk, reception. Did you have an entrepreneurial vision guiding you through those early jobs?

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Honestly, so much of my life and career has been luck. I mean, even the fact that I'm in private clubs right now, I wish I could have said, like, I knew AI was coming, and I knew social media was coming, and I knew how important these clubs were going to be. It's just I'm lucky. I was always very dyslexic growing up. I never thought I'd own a hotel, or hotels, or private clubs. And so I just got really lucky. This guy, Bernard Goldberg, who was my mentor, just taught me everything I knew. And he was a pioneer in the boutique hotel industry in the 90s. It was really just him and Ian Schreger.

• 35:00Kara Swisher?

  Was there a thing he said to you that stuck with him? Mine was Walt Mossberg in writing, and he said, you know, "Always parachute in with your cleats on." That stays with me every step of my career.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  That's so great. I'm trying to think. I don't think there was any one thing, but he really taught me how to look for value. So if you look at my career, everything I did, when I bought the Sunset, you know, no one believes this. They couldn't give the Sunset Tower away. It was called the Argyle Hotel. It was a dump.

• 35:31Kara Swisher?

  I remember.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  They kept on lowering the price and I bought it for like $18 million. And that's a lot of money. But when you think about it, to buy a property like that, and, and he's, he said, always find value where no one else can.

• 35:45Kara Swisher?

  Speaking of which, in 2013, you purchased the San Vicente Inn in West Hollywood. And at the time, it was rundown, clothing optional, men only motel that community news site described as the Sin Bin. Nobody wanted to invest in you.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Nobody, I couldn't.

• 36:02Kara Swisher?

  What was the pitch?

• 36:04Speaker 02

  It was so hard. Well, first of all, even as a gay man, it was hard for me to go there because there was like, it was also very druggie and it was just this weird, crazy place. We're having sex out in the open. Nothing wrong with that, but it was very hard to get like a buttoned up investor or banker to, because I didn't own it yet. I was just in escrow. So I couldn't get investors. In fact, the, this is a very funny story. The, I was, I went to like 52 lenders and they all said no, because they'd go there and they'd be really kind of like, oh, because no one has a vision. No one can see. And so my husband

• 36:44Speaker 02

  said to me, you know what, we're gonna, I'm gonna show you how like, we get a movie made. Invite your banker, invite his wife, and we're gonna invite some movie stars to dinner, and you're gonna get that loan. And he was, he was right. It happened. So that, that's, I had to kind of like.

• 37:04Kara Swisher?

  Explain who your husband is.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  My husband is a man named John Goldwin, whose grandfather was Sam Goldwin, and he ran Paramount Pictures for 13 years. He was vice chairman. He's also a producer. He produces many shows and movies. And he's a brilliant person in the industry and obviously very connected. So.

• 37:24Kara Swisher?

  And he knows how to get movies made. So it's not unsimilar. But how did you get people to like the Sin Bin? Did you say now with 100% less naked druggery?

• 37:33Speaker 02

  It was really hard. I would try to, I would try to.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  You know, there were moments in the day, like especially early in the morning when they usually weren't out, although sometimes they would still be coming off of one of their like benders. So I would try to do the tours at like eight in the morning or nine in the morning. It was really hard. It was really hard, but even more than just like seeing the people there, the place was such, it was like a rundown motel. Now it's this incredibly glamorous, beautiful place that you feel like it's been there forever and will be there forever.

• 38:12Kara Swisher?

  Right. Like what happens in Palm Springs. Palm Springs had all these Yankee hotels and now they're beautiful. The gays came in and gay'd them up. They're fantastic. But what was the pitch that didn't work for investors? What did? What finally did when you were bringing them in?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, essentially what happened was I had to put together, it really was tough. I couldn't get investors. I had to really cobble investments together, like $50,000 here. And then that loan that I got was a construction loan that we use celebrities to get us. And then, right before I opened is when I found my current investor, which is this company, Ohana. And they, there's a guy named Franco Famularo, who works at Ohana, who's very smart. And he had been speaking to me actually about the Sunset Tower. And he said, what's going on with that private club? And I said, oh, I had to cobble together.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  I'm about to open. He said, well, can I see it? And he came and saw it. He said, I'd like to take out all your investors. They'd only been in the investment for like 18 months. He said, I'll give them like a 60% return, which is great for an 18-month investment to make 60% return. I've never, you know, you're lucky if you make 8% a year. So.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  And I'd like to take them all out and he did. And then he also helped me grow because, you know, Ohana was able, when I found the Jane Hotel, to help finance that.

• 39:46Kara Swisher?

  Right. So now you and your partner, this is Ohana Real Estate Investors, you're looking to sell a stake in the company to fund global expansion. So how do you think about that? Because obviously, expansion is always the thing to do. You open Jane, you have Jane, San Vicente bungalows you've got, and Jane is, is the San Vicen- is Jane and the San Vicente bungalows?

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Well, it's no longer the Jane, it's San Vicente West Village.

• 40:09Kara Swisher?

  Right, okay. But you have these two east and west coast investments and these things, but you want to expand globally. Talk about how you think about that. Because it's, you know, with doing these things, it's always a risk, obviously.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  It is a risk. I'm not trying to build hundreds of clubs. I think luxury brands often die when growth-

• 40:25Kara Swisher?

  Or go public, like somehow.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  -itself becomes a strategy, or go public. What makes these environments work is, you know, the colts are in the atmosphere and trust. And so it's fragile. I mean, I can't do like a cut and paste and just copy these. And I'm really trying to build institutions, not trends. So I can only do a few of these. I mean, you know, if I did two or three more in the next seven years, I'd say that's a lot. And as I say, it's like, I don't want these to be hot. I want places to feel like they've been there forever and will be there forever.

• 40:55Kara Swisher?

  Are you considering certain cities like Washington or Seattle? I don't know.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  I haven't considered Washington, but I think actually Washington would be interesting.

• 41:04Kara Swisher?

  Well, they have the Ned and then that stupid Trump one. I almost bought a very expensive membership there, which is, I think it's about a hundred thousand. I just was like, this is an investment in irritating people. And to sit there in the diner and wave at Scott Bessant every five minutes, or David Sacks, like, hey, hey, girl, what up?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  It's hilarious. You know, I was friendly with Scott Bessant.

• 41:26Kara Swisher?

  He was very lefty. Let's remind Trump of that. He was quite a lefty. But what would you think? What's, what's the ideal kind of city you're looking for when you're not? And the obvious ones are Los Angeles and New York and maybe San Francisco, right? Presumably.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, for me, right now, I'm more focused on this transaction. Action and finding a new partner that I haven't really been because I just opened Santa Monica and I just opened West Village. I haven't really been uber focused on where the next club is. I have these fantasies of doing one in Paris. I love me and my husband, like, you know, we take French lessons. We love we're Francophiles. And so a lot of it also depends on the actual physical space that I see. Like so much of it, people think I'm this like,

• 42:13Speaker 02

  perfect, like, corporate person, but I really have no none of that in me. And so much of this is like, I'm almost like an artist, like, I have to see the place. And then I kind of am like, I think we should turn this into a club. Like, I never am like, okay, I want to open in Washington DC. So I start like, you know, spending months in DC looking at spaces. It's just these things kind of like hit me.

• 42:36Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I can't think of one space you'd find interesting here. I have to tell you.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean,

• 42:42Kara Swisher?

  I don't like the ned. I'll be honest with you.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Really?

• 42:45Kara Swisher?

  I've been there. No, it's very thirsty.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  It seems to be doing well.

• 42:48Kara Swisher?

  It's doing fine. I get why people go to it. It's actually, you know what? It's beautiful. It's come. They're gonna call and yell at me, but I don't care. It's beautiful. It's it's really interesting. It's just very performative. It's trying. So when you're when I'm in your places, I feel like it's exactly the way it's like hotels. Sometimes hotels are really performative. And I find I know they did it for the way it looked, not because it was someone had heart. It doesn't have heart. I don't know what else to say.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  A big mistake. Every location has to have its own soul.

• 43:19Kara Swisher?

  Has its own thing, right? And that's why I originally liked some of those Soho houses because I thought they had heart, like they had some, and then they become sort of cookie cutters in a lot of ways. But, you know, I was there and I ran into a lot of people and I and my wife and I were like, we got to get out of here. We'd never, you know what I mean? Like, I just couldn't imagine wanting to spend any time. But people like it because Washington is really performative. So it works just fine. I want to go to the one that Don Jr. is running. That's the one I want to get into. Anyway, every episode, we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  Hey, Jeff, congratulations on all your success. This is Chip Conley. Fellow hospitality entrepreneur, Boutique O'Teillier, modern elder of Airbnb and the founder of MEA, the Modern Elder Academy, the world's first midlife wisdom school. I have learned along the way that scale and soul sometimes are at odds with each other. You want to grow revenues and yet you want to keep exclusivity. How are you, as a social alchemist, a mixologist of people, going to scale your business in such a way that it still has the exclusivity and the beautiful soul that it's always had when you're going to be all over the world? I wish you all the best on your journey.

• 44:30Kara Swisher?

  Anyway, great question from Chip, obviously.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  That is a great question. I think scale and soul absolutely are at odds with each other. And most hospitality brands lose their soul because growth becomes a strategy instead of the consequence. The way you protect soul is through restraint, curation and standards. We're very intentional about not expanding too quickly. Culture is fragile. I don't think exclusivity comes from price alone. It comes from emotional consistency. And members have to feel the same trust and intimacy, you know, and discretion and atmosphere. And so I think, you know, staying focused on that is the way. You can scale systems, but you can't scale taste.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  And, you know, back to my Hermes, I'm obsessed with Hermes. Hermes is valuable because they protected the standards, not because they maximize distribution. And I really respect that. And so I don't want, you know, again, I just don't. I'd rather have a few truly exceptional clubs with soul than hundreds that feel efficient but emotionally empty.

• 45:39Kara Swisher?

  But does that make a problem if there'd be too many private clubs and the market becoming oversaturated? That was one thing I worried about as a media entrepreneur is everyone copied me, the stuff I did, the code, which was very, I could have done it worldwide, right? And I didn't because I just wanted it to be good the way it was. And whenever I expanded, I was always regretful some of the time. Some of the time it worked, but I was always wary of expansion, very much so. Because you, you know, you can't just stamp it out and make it good. And also from a business perspective, then it got problematic because everyone was trying to hire my reporters or they were trying to copy it. And then ultimately there is a saturation problem, especially among sponsors or in your case, investors.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I mean, it depends. I think most cities are still very underserved when it comes to real community and gathering spaces. I mean, our friend Britt Morgan Sachs is opening in Jacksonville, Florida, and I think that's really cool. I think we're going to see a lot more of that. That said, I do think there are too many clubs being created as social scenes or real estate products instead of being created as communities. And that's a mistake that we're seeing, and I think we're going to see those places fail.

• 46:53Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it's like the tequila brand of the week, right?

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:56Kara Swisher?

  Or perfume brand, or whatever that everyone must have.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  And they're, you know, they're all, they're trying to create buzz and far, they can create, it's easy to create buzz. I mean, anybody can create buzz. And, but you, to create that emotional attachment and long-term loyalty is what's difficult. And so that, I think, is what they have to be focused on.

• 47:19Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 47:37Kara Swisher?

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• 48:21Kara Swisher?

  credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need the right hire fast? Then this is the job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 48:47Speaker 04

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• 49:25Speaker 05

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• 50:10Kara Swisher?

  So let's talk about the broader hospitality industry because that's also part of it because you are providing some level of hospitality and you don't just own private clubs, you also own hotels. And when you started out in the hotel business, 1990s, the landscape was very different. Boutique hotels were on the rise and competed with big chains like Marriott and Hilton. And then vacation rentals like Airbnb and VRBO took off and they're operating under a totally different economic model. How do you think of your competition? Because- You know, right now, there was a great story, and I agree with this, is that they knocked Airbnb out of New York, and now hotel rooms are just more expensive. It didn't make it a better scene in any way, or less. And I'm almost like, bring back the Airbnb, because, you know, it hurts, you know, I understand it was being abused, but it didn't mean hotels

• 50:55Kara Swisher?

  rose to the occasion. How do you look at your, the economic models of hotels versus Airbnb's versus other ways of hospitality?

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Well, it, I mean, listen, as a hospitality person, I actually appreciated that they don't allow Airbnb's in New York, because they really hurt us. And the thing is, you know, Airbnb has all these things that they can do that hotels can't do. Whether you're a union or a non-union hotel, you know, it's very expensive to run a hotel. And so an Airbnb can deliver something much cheaper, and it would really be putting a lot of people out of work. I wish LA, quite frankly, would do that. But hospitality used to be much more transactional, you know, great food, beautiful design, good service. Those things still matter enormously. But today, people are, the way to succeed in hospitality is to emotionally

• 51:50Speaker 02

  connect. And again, it's like, back to this whole idea of the product having a soul. That, that is, to me, how it's different now, and how, that's my strategy. You know, hospitality historically has really, it's, it's all, you know, you talk about Four Seasons, or you talk Hilton, all these products, they're all commodities. Their rooms are just commodities. And so my job is to do the opposite of that, and not just deliver white boxes that you can get everywhere.

• 52:25Kara Swisher?

  Everywhere. But President Trump's tariffs have led to higher operating costs. That's another thing for hotels. Last week, a federal trade court ruled against Trump's new 10% global tariffs, which he imposed after his previous tariff strategy was struck down by the Supreme Court. Has that affected you on the hotel, with workers? Where is the real push and shove right now in the hotel business? And again, you have higher-end hotels, but it's the same thing everywhere, I think, especially because employment... Is back to pre pandemic levels, but the staffing shortages, high turnover, the administration's obviously heavy handed immigration enforcement has led to decline in international visitors and a tightening of the labor market. And so your businesses depend on maintaining high standards and flawless service. So talk about those economic winds that you have

• 53:10Kara Swisher?

  to face to retain good workers, the same time, keep costs down in order to make money. What do you think the most important things right now in the hospitality industry for you are?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  It's, it's really hard. It's never been this hard. Covid really also changed my industry because people don't want to be, they don't want to actually, you know, they want to work from home, which you can't do in hospitality. Hospitality is really an emotional labor. People stay when they feel respected, empowered and proud of the environment. And that, that is part of something meaningful. So I feel like we still have that. We spend a huge amount of time thinking about culture internally, not just to members, but for staff. And guests feel that immediately when the staff culture is very healthy, like ours, but it's very, very hard to do. It's very hard to find good managers. I mean, we have some of the greatest

• 54:05Speaker 02

  people. I mean, Gabby is a great example of this.

• 54:09Kara Swisher?

  She's great. Yeah.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  She's just amazing. But, you know, I had to really think outside. Everybody was like, you're crazy. Why are you hiring this former magazine editor, like to lead up your membership? But, you know, she doesn't understand hospitality. She understands it better than anybody. I mean, she's also a brilliant, brilliant woman and can adapt to anything. But, you know, it's just getting harder. And I've been forced to think outside the box with people like Gabby. Dmitri is another example of that. I mean, even though he's worked for me for 22 years, everybody was like, no one wants that old school maître d'.

• 54:43Kara Swisher?

  I love a maître d'. What are you talking about?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Well, now we do because we've, you know, we realize that the old world ways are so exciting and thrilling. And, but at the time, you know, Great hospitality people like Chip Conley are artists in their own way and they're creating atmosphere and comfort and, you know, emotional tone.

• 55:07Kara Swisher?

  Explain who Dimitri and Gabby are.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  So Dimitri is the maître d' at the Tower Bar. He's this old school, he's from Macedonia. He bows, he just loves his job. He is literally the definition of hospitality. And Gabby has become as well. Gabby is the head of membership, global membership. She oversees all three clubs. So she's really with me curating who and this committee who we're going after. I mean, Gabby will wake up one day and say, we don't have enough people in Broadway, in the theater, you know, in New York.

• 55:45Kara Swisher?

  Let's find some.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  And let's find some. Let's contact some producers, directors, whatever it is, and get that community. It needs to be more well-rounded. This is like one area.

• 55:55Kara Swisher?

  You know, that's what a great magazine editor does, by the way, just so you know.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Well, that's why I kind of knew she was going to be so amazing because really that's what she is editing a magazine, a real life magazine.

• 56:09Kara Swisher?

  What about travelers when you think about like, has that been affected with the terror of people coming here?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  So I'm really lucky. I mean, honestly, my only, I have two hotels. I have the Sunset Tower and I have this little hotel, eight fifty, which is so sweet. And they're both so unique that, and there's nobody truly competing with either of them. I mean, for example, and to me, this is a trick in business. It's like the Sunset Tower is singular. It's this art deco Hollywood hotel. Okay, yes, if you want old Hollywood, perhaps you could go to the Chateau or perhaps you could go to the Beverly Hills Hotel. Those are also two very different things. But if you want old Hollywood and you want it to be chic and you don't want it to be a ripoff and you don't want it to, then we're the only game in town.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  So I feel like we're lucky that we're so singular in that respect.

• 57:01Kara Swisher?

  So you have people, you don't think, you have just one of a kind, you know, you're in your own lane, so it's not.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  I think so, but I also would never do like I like the London Hotel is for sale in LA and they keep on trying to get me to buy it. I would never buy it. It's on San Vicente and Sunset. It's a great location, but nobody can make that special. Nobody can give that place a soul. You'd have to tear it down.

• 57:25Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I agree with you. I absolutely agree. I've stayed at every hotel in Los Angeles. I'm a hotel whore. I go from one to the X quietly. It's the thing I do spend money on. Doesn't have to be expensive.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Again, spending money on experiences, see?

• 57:36Kara Swisher?

  Right, but I don't always, it depends. It's not always a fancy hotel. It's really weird. There was one in Venice that I love that closed that I love.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, the little one?

• 57:47Kara Swisher?

  The little one. You know.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  I love that place, too.

• 57:50Kara Swisher?

  That was a wonderful hotel. I love that hotel so much. So I have one last question. You've worked in hospitality long enough to have seen lots of trends come and go and you've said that it's easy to make something that's hot, but longevity in your business isn't easy. I can imagine it is. So what is your long-term vision for sustaining a hospitality business? Does it outlive you or is it just Jeff was here and made this?

• 58:12Speaker 02

  I mean, I hope it outlives me. That's a great question. I've never been asked that. I mean, I've seen a lot of trends come and go in hospitality. Longevity is much harder than relevance for a moment. You know, I, my long-term vision is not to build the hottest places again, but to build, you know, places that are, that have weight to them, that really, that that's what I'd like to be remembered for. I want the clubs and the hotels to feel timeless rather than trendy. And that affects every single decision, you know, where we grow, the design, the membership, the music, the lighting, the press exposure, how much attention we seek publicly.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  Trendy spaces optimized for excitement and enduring spaces like us optimized for emotional attachment.

• 59:06Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Can I ask you a final question? I I'll answer first. What was your favorite? I love hotels and I have so many good memories from hotels. What was your favorite hotel? Mine was mine remains Deech and Spigsar Inn, although there's some beautiful hotels.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I love Deech and Spigsar.

• 59:21Kara Swisher?

  Deech and Spigsar, and there's beautiful hotels nearby and they're all gorgeous. Ventana and the rest, they're gorgeous.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  There was.

• 59:28Kara Swisher?

  Spigsar Inn, because I'm so happy when I'm there.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  And there's no else. That's a very magical place and a great example of a place that has a soul that they have respected and enhanced rather than ruined because so many of these places like could get bought, Deech and Spigsar could get bought by some asshole who's rich and.

• 59:46Kara Swisher?

  I know. That was always my worry.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  I know, and it happens. There was a place in the middle of nowhere in a town called Garzone that the chef Francis Melman in Uruguay.

• 59:58Kara Swisher?

  Uruguay, okay.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  That I went to. That was, I would say, one of the most special hotels I've ever been to. And he would, the chef would cook over an open flame. There was like, each room had its own personality. It was just like really, it wasn't fancy. There was no, and it was in this like weird little town in the middle of nowhere. It was really cool. It was just a very, I, I connected to that place very profoundly. And, and also the food was delicious and you'd look at the stars at night and it was just the really pretty pool and it was a very cool place.

• 1:00:37Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it's a moment. That's what hotels are.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  It's a moment. That's, it's, we're creating feelings and so it's hard to do. So, you know, it's like Deech and Spigsar is great at that because, I mean, Deech and Spigsar, it's like even the smell of the wood, you know, and the.

• 1:00:51Kara Swisher?

  It's such a great place. Someday it won't be there, but I love, I love the fact that someday it won't be there also. Like, it'll just go, it's a femorality of it is what the beautiful thing about it. Anyway, you're a wonder. You create beautiful spaces. I really appreciate everything you do, Jeff. I'm not going to join your clubs, but. Hardware Store, but I'm going to come as a guest with my friends, like Brooke and others. And I think what you do is beautiful. Actually, I know everyone like goes, oh, private clubs. But I'm like, no, no, it's something else that's happening here. Everybody should have a space of quiet.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. And I agree. And it's funny, when I started it, I was nervous about like, is this elitist thing? And it really is not. It's a community thing. And I love that you see that. And I'm very proud of it.

• 1:01:34Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, my grandfather had a place like that. It was called The Dugout. And he went there and played pinochle every day. And it was his hotel. And he played cards with his buddies, and they smoked cigars. And it was a space. And it was, I would always have to go get them. And I always used to think, oh, wonderful place. I wouldn't go there. But it was wonderful. Anyway, that's what you do. That's how I feel every time I go to one of your places. Anyway, if I joined a club, it would be yours. How's that?

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Thank you. I really appreciate that.

• 1:02:00Kara Swisher?

  Anyway, Jeff, thank you so much.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:02:08Kara Swisher?

  Today's show was produced by Christian Castor Rosell, Michelle Aloy, Catherine Millsop, Megan Burney, and Klein Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Bradley Sylvester and Julia Sharp Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Aruda and Rick Kwan. And our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, congratulations, you're a member of a very exclusive club. If not, you're on the waitlist. Come meet me at the Hardware Store. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.

• 1:02:53Speaker 06

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