#197: The Evolution Of The Green Beret NCO - CSM(R) Rob Abernethy

Green Berets are built over time. Special Operations Truth #3: SOF cannot be mass produced. America’s most elite warriors are developed through experience, through leadership, and through the responsibility of developing others. This is the job of the Special Forces Noncommissioned Officer. In this episode, Fran Racioppi https://www.linkedin.com/in/francisracioppijr/ sat down with retired Command Sergeant Major Rob Abernethy https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-abernethy/ to dissect the evolution of the Green Beret NCO, and their officer counterparts, to show how that development shapes the effectiveness of Army Special Operations and national strategy. CSM Abernethy served nearly four decades in the Army and across special operations from a junior 18E communications sergeant, to the Command Sergeant Major of US Army Special Operations Command and United States European Command. Rob breaks down the role of the NCO as the backbone of the Regiment, the importance of regional alignment in building partner forces, and where Special Forces fits into military strategy from the pre-9/11 period, through the Global War on Terror and into today’s Large Scale Combat Operations. We also explore the rapid evolution of technology and the challenge of integrating new tools without losing the fundamentals of leadership and warfighting. From artificial intelligence to modern battlefield systems, Rob emphasizes that technology must support the force, not replace the mindset that defines it. Finally, after retiring as one of the longest serving Green Berets in the Army, CSM Abernethy shares his perspective on transition after service and his current role continuing to develop soldiers through his work at AUSA https://www.ausa.org/. This is a conversation about leadership, evolution, and the responsibility to prepare the next generation of Green Berets for the fight ahead. HIGHLIGHTS 0:00 Introduction2:00 Welcome to the Jedburgh Podcast5:20 From junior to senior NCO on an ODA15:31 Role of the Team Sergeant18:52 The culture of a Special Forces team25:02 Importance of Regional Alignment32:08 Bridging the generation gap43:14 American Military Technological Advantage49:00 Biggest Threat to America52:18 Remembering Service QUOTES “The average age on the teams was much older.”“Nobody says, ‘Hey, I’m going to join the Army and my goal is to be a sucky soldier.’”“The Team Sergeant is one of the most critical parts of the team.”“Over time, what you do is build confidence with the team.”“The Officer’s success is really the Team’s success and the Team’s success is based on the Officer.”“Our confidence as a Team Sergeant needs to be projected through the team leader.”“You have to have a lot of confidence in the team you’re selecting.”“The administrative stuff makes a difference.”“The little things absolutely matter.”“The more astute you are to the environment in which you’re going to operate, the better you’re going to be.”“In the next 10 years, it’s going to be phenomenal what we actually bring to the battlefield because AI is going to make us that much better.”“The Department of War is crushing the acquisition process now.”“Our relationship with our NATO allies has been strong and needed, and still will be needed.”“One thing that stayed consistent was my desire to be good, to be an expert, and lead by example.” The Jedburgh Podcast is brought to you by OneBrief https://www.onebrief.com/; enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command wins wars. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast https://www.instagram.com/jedburghpodcast/ and the Green Beret Foundation https://www.instagram.com/greenberetfoundation/ on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform https://pod.link/1558608802, read on our website https://greenberetfoundation.org/the-jedburgh-podcast/, and watch the full video version on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@jedburghpodcast as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Fran Racioppi?

  Green Berets are built over time. Special Operations Truth Number Three: SOF cannot be mass-produced. America’s most elite warriors are developed through experience, through leadership, and through the responsibility of developing others. This is the job of the Special Forces non-commissioned officer. In this episode, I sat down with retired Command Sergeant Major Rob Abernethy to dissect the evolution of Green Beret NCO and their officer counterparts to show how that development shapes the effectiveness of Army Special Operations and national strategy. CSM Abernethy served nearly four decades in the Army and across Special Operations, from a junior 18 ECO Communications Sergeant to the Command Sergeant Major of U.S. Army Special Operations Command, and eventually, United States European Command.

• 0:45Fran Racioppi?

  Rob breaks down the role of the NCO as the backbone of the regiment, the importance of regional alignment in building partner forces, and where Special Forces fits into military strategy from the pre-9/11 period through the global war on terror and into today’s large-scale combat operations. We also explore the rapid evolution of technology and the challenge of integrating new tools without losing the fundamentals of leadership and warfighting. From artificial intelligence to modern battlefield systems, Rob emphasizes that technology must support the force, not replace the mindset that defines it. After retiring as one of the longest-serving Green Berets in the Army, Rob shares his perspective on transition after service and his current role continuing to develop soldiers through his work at AUSA.

• 1:26Fran Racioppi?

  This is a conversation about leadership, evolution, and the responsibility to prepare the next generation of Green Berets for the fight ahead. The Jedberg Podcast is brought to you by One Brief, enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed, and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command wins wars. Follow the Jedberg Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform, read on our website, and watch the full video version on YouTube as we show you why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge. Rob

• 2:00Fran Racioppi?

  Welcome to the Jedberg Podcast.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Really, really happy to be here. I know we've been trying to do this for some time now, but we finally made it happen.

• 2:06Fran Racioppi?

  This has been years in the making.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Maybe not years, but well, maybe about a year or so for sure. Yeah.

• 2:12Fran Racioppi?

  It has, it has. So I'm super excited. I mean, a lot's transpired since we first started talking about doing this. Primarily, I would say number one fact is you retired from the Army.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  That's right. And you might notice my hair is a little bit longer.

• 2:25Fran Racioppi?

  It's much longer.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  It's probably out of standards right now. As a matter of fact, my current boss, who's our former Sergeant Major of the Army, Dan Daly, was having this conversation with me just the other day. And he's like, hey, Rob, are you going to get a haircut? And I said, Sergeant Major, I'm no longer in the Army. I'm going to let my hair grow for a little bit. So as long as I still have it.

• 2:42Fran Racioppi?

  SMA Dan Daly, who is a very good friend of not only the Jedburgh Podcast, but myself, having been my first Battalion Sergeant Major, not only has the same haircut that he had as a Battalion Sergeant Major, but looks exactly the same and probably runs the same pace.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  He doesn't run quite the same pace, but he was a beast when he was out there running for sure. But he's got the same fantastic attitude for, you know, all about supporting the soldiers, supporting folks and everything else. As you well know, is because he was your Sergeant Major and First Sergeant for, you know, so many years ago, but just a fantastic, you know, human being. So, uh, and the reason why he has the same haircut, because he does it himself. So he doesn't know how to do anything else. Of course it's going to be the same.

• 3:25Fran Racioppi?

  Oh, man.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  He's going to hate that I said that.

• 3:27Fran Racioppi?

  No, he's a good man, but that's funny. I'm good, but I'm going to keep him away from my hair. But I mean, you had a very long and progressive career throughout your time, not only in the Army, but specifically in Army Special Forces and as a Green Beret. And, you know, everybody I talked to about the opportunity to come and sit down with you. There are a lot of people looking forward to hearing this episode, hearing what you have to say. Because, you know, and I'm sure you know it deep down somewhere, but a, there is a regiment of folks who have looked up to you for a very long time and have been influenced and led by you. And a lot of your peers through for the last greater than 30 years. And so.

• 4:10Fran Racioppi?

  So what I want to focus on is the discussion of the evolution of the Green Beret. What does it mean when you come into this organization, whether that be as a junior enlisted NCO, or whether you come in as a young captain and an officer, because your paths evolve. You know, you evolve as, as an operator, as a soldier, as a Green Beret, and you evolve as a person.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:40Fran Racioppi?

  And from the roles that you held from a junior 18 Echo on the team to a senior to a team sergeant and a company and battalion sergeant major into the USASOC sergeant major, and then the UCOM sergeant major, you went from the most tactical level, you know, where does the wire plug into the radio, to what does it mean to shape strategy for an entire combatant command? And arguably, one of the most important combatant command when we look at our allies and NATO and, you know, what it looks like to maintain the world order that has been in place since World War II.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:18Fran Racioppi?

  When you think back to being that young 18 Echo, walking into the team room, you just, you just donned your Green Beret, you know, your head's held high, your chest's out. What does it look like when you first start?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Well, I would say that my experience is probably, you know, different than a Green Beret that's graduating today, stepping into the team room for sure. I know one thing that was drastically different back then than it is now is the average age on the teams was much older. I remember stepping into my first team, which was in third special forces group at Fort Bragg in early 1992. And I think the next closest guy to me in age was about 31 years old. And when I walked in, I was 23. So, and I used to give people a hard time for, man, you're in your 30s. You're so old. Now, granted, they would break it off on me on a regular basis because they're all in fantastic shape. They're in the peak of their,

• 6:16Speaker 01

  they're in the prime of their life for sure. So coming in there, you know, a little bit. Overconfident, you know, I'd say maybe even a little cocky kind of coming into the team room, but I was humbled, you know, very, very quickly. So I think that's changed, you know, quite a bit, probably for all the right reasons. That age demographic is, you know, average age demographic has gone down on the teams. We have a much more diversified crew that's entering into team rooms nowadays in terms of, you know, being fed by the 18 x-ray programs on initial entry, or, you know, in-service recruits. And that wasn't the case when I, when I came into SF. When I came in, you had to be in-service recruit, E4, promotable, before you could even go to special forces assessment selection. That

• 6:58Speaker 01

  said, I think what still is the same is that, that what I mentioned earlier, that confidence, that really comes from a point of pride. I think that everybody joins the Army and nobody says, hey, I'm gonna join the Army and my goal is to be a sucky soldier. I think everybody wants to be all they can be. And that's, and you have that opportunity in the Army, broadly speaking. And all of us kind of walk this path and say, hey, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. In some cases, some folks say, I want to get into the special operations community. I want to be a Green Beret. And they start charting off a path. So to arrive at that point, when, you know, that was a goal you might have set for yourself, years before you ever actualized it, is huge. And you actually

• 7:43Speaker 01

  jumped on that beret, entered that team room, into, into that company area, and then meet folks that have been doing it for years. And they're like legends. And you have so much to learn from each of those. So that's the thing that's still the same, I believe.

• 7:57Fran Racioppi?

  And you spend time as a junior on the team. You gotta learn, you gotta absorb, you know, there's periods of time where you gotta keep your mouth shut. There's periods of time where you're gonna be asked to speak your opinion.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:11Fran Racioppi?

  From your perspective, why is that aspect of being on a special forces team so important? And, and because it translates to later on, even, even post-service. I mean, but it translates throughout your career. But I want to talk about it here because a lot of people think, oh, well, you know, you were in the Army, so you just have to sit there and be told what to do. But in special forces, yes, but no.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Well, absolutely, because I think everybody that enters into that team room, they already come with a well of experience themselves. Especially, you know, think about my own experience and folks that came in at the same time as me, they've already spent, you know, four, five, six, sometimes eight, 10 years doing something else in the Army before ever stepping in. They all have different varying levels of education that they kind of come in with. So, and then I think the qualification course itself gives you that confidence or, you know, kind of continues to put more wind in the sails of your confidence. So that way you come into the team room with opinions. Smart people sit back and listen and pay attention, you know, for a long time before just kind of offering up stuff, and then they do their research for sure.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  But the great thing is we all have fantastic life experiences and military experiences that add value to the team and to the decision making that's done on the team, which oftentimes is done in a very collective way. And I think even today, still with even 18 x-rays coming into the force and feeding into team rooms, they too bring lots of fantastic experiences, especially that experience that they gather before coming into the military themselves. They got advanced degrees, I mean, you've seen all the numbers and everything else, they're bringing a lot into it. But having that ability to be confident and tap into that experience and then raise your hand and know that you're not going to get, you know, figuratively shot in the

• 10:00Speaker 01

  face for raising your hand and say, "Hey, I got, I have something to offer here." And most importantly, having fantastic leaders that are leading those teams, those team sergeants, team leaders, warrant officers that are leading the teams, you know, turning to you with open ears, open eyes and saying, "What do you have to say, Rob? Yeah, we want to listen to you." Because I think that's really what you enter into when you get into a team is a very inclusive environment that where people want to listen, they want to hear your opinion.

• 10:26Fran Racioppi?

  How does that change when you become the Senior 18 Echo or the Senior 18 Delta?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a really good point. But as a matter of fact, when I came into the team, my very first team, I came in there shortly after another 18 Echo had entered the team. Both of us graduated the Q course at basically the same time, but he was senior to me. So senior to me in grades, senior to me in time in service, somebody that I considered to be a friend, you know, but at the same time, he was the Senior 18 Echo and I was the Junior 18 Echo. And every now and then he had to kind of put me in my place a little bit and they gave me very valuable lessons because, you know, knowing when to turn it on and when to be able to turn it off is something else that's a, not everybody has that skill and, and he helped me to actually find that

• 11:13Speaker 01

  skill. The point that I was trying to make really about as you start to kind of grow, you learn as a young guy, this is kind of true in every walk in life. You take time to actually learn your role as a young person. So that way you know where to be when you start leading. And as you kind of step up from junior to senior, that's not a big gap. When you go from, you know, a senior position to either an 18 Fox Intel Sergeant position, or you become the Team Sergeant, now, you know, there's much more responsibility on your plate. And that's exactly where, you know, it really kind of, you know, kind of, all of your experiences really kind of come to the fore where you can actually say, hey, now I know how to lead this team or lead this company or lead this battalion as you continue to ascend in rank.

• 11:54Fran Racioppi?

  I want to talk about the Team Sergeant role for me because I think it's, to me, I think it's critical to have the right Team Sergeant.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:03Fran Racioppi?

  I was very fortunate, both as an infantry platoon leader and as a detachment commander, to have a, to have a platoon sergeant and a Team Sergeant who were very deep in their years in service, but also understood their role to not only, you know, lead and manage that, the team, but to develop me.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:29Fran Racioppi?

  And I'll ask you about the officer role in a minute, but that's a really critical component of that position. When you step into this role as the team sergeant, you talked about when you started, the people were a bit older than they are today. And I saw that in the evolution of my decade or so in SF was, I mean, my team sergeant was in his late 40s, mid to late 40s. And by the time, you know, I got out, we had team sergeants who were in their early 30s, in their early to mid 30s. So there was a big gap between that. And that was a big change. But in your perspective, what is the importance of the role of the team sergeant? And what does an effective team sergeant look like?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Well, there's no doubt. I think that the team sergeant positions is one of the, I could, you could easily say, one of the most critical positions on the team. You could probably even say the most critical position on the team, especially to have the right person there with the right experience. Because as you mentioned, even today, team sergeants typically are going to be the folks that are a little longer in years. So they're going to be probably the, one of the oldest, if not the oldest person on the detachment. That comes with, you know, a lot of life experience and military experience as well. Where a team leader should be able to kind of come in who has less time in the military, definitely kind of, you know, they're jumping into their first team. So much less time

• 13:58Speaker 01

  in special forces. And like, I think a lot of officers like to do is be able to leverage that experience, lean on that experience to help the entire detachment to be successful. So to your point, we got to grow team sergeants, you know, methodically. I was one of those young, young team sergeants that you mentioned that, you know, only just eaked into my 30s and next thing you know, I'm a team sergeant out in Okinawa. And guys would, you know, my teammates, many of them actually were older than I was. And, you know, I, it was tough. It was kind of tough for me to actually kind of come into that role as a team sergeant because I had less experience. And, you know, but over time, what you do is you kind of

• 14:38Speaker 01

  build confidence with the team. And that confidence is kind of built through established, you know, trust and confidence. And your ability to do the job. So on day one, you're already working at a deficit because hey, who's this young guy that, you know, they've only been in special forces for this number of years, you know, how is this person going to lead us? But you gotta, you know, kind of get past that and get in there and do it. Now, on the other hand, though, it is that experience that actually gives you the confidence to step into the role to be competent at what you do. And that's what we got to do. And that that spreads in all directions. That spreads through, you know, through and with the warrant officer on the team, the assistant detachment commander, the detachment commander, you know, all the other leaders that are on the team. Because

• 15:20Speaker 01

  in my mind, you know, everybody on the ODA, you know, leads in some way, shape or form. So, you know, and that's what we got to do is kind of get into the boat and pick up our paddles and row together.

• 15:31Fran Racioppi?

  When you look at the responsibility of the team sergeant to develop that young captain who comes on the team, what is their responsibility to develop the officer?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Well, you want that officer to be successful, you know, you know, first and foremost, the officer's success, you know, is really the the team's success and the team's success is kind of based on the officer's success. My first team that I mentioned that I was on in Okinawa, the team leader that kind of came in, him and I had a very, very early conversation in terms of roles and responsibilities and really kind of focus areas and broadly, to kind of put it more broadly, what we really wanted to focus on is the me as the team sergeant is to focus in on the day to day operations, get all the training and everything set up. And I really wanted that team leader kind of to, one, understand our role and responsibilities as a detachment, what we had to actually do there in the theater and making sure that, you know, he was confident

• 16:26Speaker 01

  with our, the team's ability to do the job and then broadcast that outward. So I was kind of more inward focused as the team sergeant and the team leader was more outward focused as the team leader to go out and kind of, you know, almost sell and promote. I don't know if those are necessarily the right words, but kind of sell and promote the team's ability to do any job that the battalion commander needed us to do at any given time. And to some extent, I think that actually worked out for us. I was a team sergeant right after nine 11 and we were the Team that was selected to go into Southern Philippines very, very early on after, after nine 11 to do initial assessments and everything. I think some of that was based on our, you know, the battalion commander's confidence and our ability to kind of go out and do the job.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  You know, on our own and we went out there and did that. And I think the team leader had a lot to do with that as well. In terms of, you know, selling and promoting, you know, what this team could do. So our confidence as a team sergeant, you know, needs to be projected through the team leader as well to kind of go out and do exactly that. And I, and I feel funny kind of saying, you know, we shouldn't be doing sales jobs necessarily as folks. We should just kind of demonstrate, but you know, the deal, you don't get an opportunity to, well, you do, you demonstrate your capabilities day in and day out. Not, you don't necessarily get the visibility from the leadership that you probably need. And that's what the team leader would do.

• 17:47Fran Racioppi?

  Well, teams take on a persona.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 17:49Fran Racioppi?

  You know, and that persona is reflective of the team sergeant and the team leader.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 17:55Fran Racioppi?

  And you can see from the outside, you know, kind of elevated here to, to, you know, look at their perspective of a company sergeant major, a company command leadership or battalion command leadership, you know, where, you know, where you served as well, but you know, you know, what a team's capabilities and dynamics are and they're by their personality.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:17Fran Racioppi?

  So when you look at that and you're the one now who's assessing, hey, I've got to pick a team to go to X, Y, and Z. You know, I've got to pick a team to go do the thing that, you know, is going to require us to have the utmost confidence in. You know, maybe we're not going to talk to these guys every day. Maybe we're not going to be able to verify what they're telling us is actually happening, but we're going to make decisions at the strategic level based on what they're telling us.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:43Fran Racioppi?

  Verse, you know, hey, we're going to go, we're going to deploy and we're going to have two teams sit and co-located with us and we're going to ask them every day what they're doing. How, when you looked at those teams and you had to make those decisions in, in your role commanding a battalion, what were you looking for?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good question, and I think it's something that as leaders, we kind of pay attention to every single day because Special Forces is unique in that small detachments can deploy anywhere across the globe by themselves to go out and represent the great USA and the Army and our military and doing, you know, big stuff with a small number of folks. So I take that that's a lot of responsibility. So selecting those teams, you know, as a company leadership, battalion leadership, you have to have a lot of confidence in them. I think one of the things that I paid attention to, maybe unfairly, and I'll come back to why I paid attention to this because I learned this lesson as a team sergeant myself, though,

• 19:39Speaker 01

  is that the administrative stuff makes a difference because it shows a level of commitment and attention to detail by team leadership if they're taking care of the little things. You know, you've probably heard before, we've all heard it. If you if you can do the little things well, I could probably count on you doing the big things very well as well. And teams that, conversely, teams that didn't pay attention to the little things, they were sloppy with many things, and I didn't feel like I can actually trust them to do those little things. Going back to my own experience as a team sergeant, I remember we had a battalion commander that came in one time, and as a team sergeant, we were slacking on our admin stuff a little bit. You know, we were cool guys, we want to get to the range and go out and shoot every day because that's what we needed to do. That's what we had to be good at.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  I didn't need to be good at NCOERs and awards and, you know, all that administrative minutia. No, no, that's not my job. My job is to go out and shoot, be not just, you know, good enough at shooting. I have to be an expert shooter as an individual and as a team. But our battalion commander thought differently. And as a matter of fact, that battalion commander shut the range down for the entire company because all the team sergeants and our team leadership, each one of the teams was, you know, lacking on the admin side of the house. So my team leader and I, you know, kind of went right back to it and said, okay, we're not getting back to the range until we get this stuff squared away. So let's figure this stuff out. And we did. We got it all figured out. The lesson I learned from that is those little things absolutely matter.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  And I took that upon myself as a company sergeant major and as a battalion, you know, sergeant major. Every position beyond that is pay attention to the little things because the little things absolutely matter. Because you know when they are focused on those little things and not just focus on them, but doing those little things in spectacular fashion. Then I know I can trust them to go out and do the big things that we need them to do all by themselves. I don't have to have them even checking in with me every single day.

• 21:28Fran Racioppi?

  And a lot of guys will rise to that.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Well, they'll start to see it around them, too. You know, this this whole competition from one ODA to the next is healthy competition. Because they see other folks that are actually taking care of that stuff. Sergeant majors are having, you know, meetings with all the team sergeants. Company commanders are having meetings with the team leaders. And we're having those conversations in those tight circles to include in the in the training meetings of who's doing the right things. And it's not necessarily about, you know, kind of showing other folks up. It's really about rising everybody's standard from, you know, a low baseline to a high baseline. That's really what it is all about, you know, because if you get everybody up to here, then it's easy for us to reach a little bit higher.

• 22:06Fran Racioppi?

  I think it's important that people understand that being in special forces really isn't all about having cool stuff and and, you know, being special. It really is about doing the basics better than anybody else to a higher standard without compromise.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:22Fran Racioppi?

  And that has to be instilled not only in the leadership of a team or a company or battalion or even a group, but it has to permeate the mindset of every single person in the organization. And when everybody lives to that, now you have an entire organization that operates at a different level.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Right. So you're exactly right. I think that so the things that we love to do, like go to the range and shoot, and not just shoot, you know, at a base level, but shoot fantastically, shoot at an expert level. We should actually take that to everything that we do, you know, PT. We should not just kind of shoot for, you know, the minimum standard. We should be shooting for the max every single day. How we wear our uniform and how we present ourselves and, you know, in our work environments day in and day out. We shouldn't just accept, you know, the baseline standard. We should actually excel above that. I mean, literally, everything that we do should be, you know, shooting for expertise and not necessarily. Being satisfied with, you know, bare minimum. And if we apply that standard, I think that other folks actually see it

• 23:24Speaker 01

  inside the organizations in which we live. But importantly, outside, folks from the outside the organization kind of see our professionalism and see that we truly are shooting for expertise with everything that we do. Because sooner or later, those folks are going to be in charge of the army. And they're going to be, you know, kind of holding our fate to some extent in their hands. And that's important, you know, what we do day in and day out matters.

• 23:47Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, I mean, you're under the microscope.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 23:49Fran Racioppi?

  I mean, I think that if you look at anyone who does anything, I mean, you can be a professional athlete, you can be a, you can be a business leader, you can be a professor. You know, whenever you're in these positions of increased responsibility, you're always going to be viewed and watched and under the microscope of everyone. And I think it's important that you people understand that, you know, you have to live up to that. And because people are going to talk, they're going to say, oh, you know, those, those guys, yeah, they don't wear their, you know, they don't wear headgear when they go into the shop that well, you know, it matters. You know, later on, and I think it's important that everyone understand that. One of the things that separates being in the special forces

• 24:34Fran Racioppi?

  from other organizations within the army and even in the broader military is the regional alignment.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:40Fran Racioppi?

  We, as an organization, were spent decades very, very focused on regional alignment.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:47Fran Racioppi?

  I think probably to some extent during the global war on terror and for operational tempo reasons, you know, we probably strayed from that a little bit. You know, there's a push now to really reinvigorate the regional alignment. But can you, from your perspective, why is regional alignment for special forces so important?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  But let me back out of that for just a second. And well, upfront, I'll say it's extremely important. Now let me back out and, and kind of have a broader comment about the army. You know, in my experience over at Army Europe and then at US European Command, I think there's so much usefulness in having regional astuteness. Because you, one, you know the Environment in which you're going to operate. You have sometimes personal relationships that absolutely matter. You have organizational relationships that matter. You have networks that are already connected that you can plug into easily. You know, that all matter. So, and this is the difference, you know, as Jim Collins has said, is going from good to great.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  So whether it's, you know, the broader army or the military, you know, apparatus, or even all the way down to a team, you know, in special forces. The more astute you are to environment in which you're going to operate, the better you're going to be fundamentally. So I think there's great utility in doing that. And I think that special forces has come a long way to maintain that regional alignment and really that regional expertise. You know, at the end of the day, it'd be great if the broader army or, you know, anybody else inside the military, if they had questions, they were leaning on our expertise as Green Berets because we've been there for so long. We have so much, you know, understanding of the environment. We can actually help to facilitate others to do well in those environments as well.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  So there's just so, there's so many useful things that can actually come from having a great understanding of the environment. So I, you know, I'm for one, believe not only special forces should be doing it, but really the broader military should do it as well. And the fact that we're getting, you know, much more heavily into understanding the language and investing in that, we kind of turned that corner, you know, after 2010 to, I mean, we've always had a language requirement. I went to Arabic, you know, when I came out of the Q course years ago. And we did a decent job, but it's mostly focused on an individual basis to kind of maintain that language. But it started to peter out after a while. I went to another group that didn't require Arabic language training any longer and, and I didn't have any motivation to maintain it necessarily.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Wrong on me, I probably should have. But now institutionally, you know, special forces command is really focused on maintaining those languages. It's a language requirement now. And I think that's helpful too, because I think language gives you something that's, you know, a little deeper in terms of understanding the fabric. You know, of a culture. And I think there's a utility in that. So maintaining that language requirement is, I think, good. Maintaining regional alignment is is great because we could always later on, if needed, like we did during GWAT, is be fungible and go to the sound of the guns if needed and do other things there. But always kind of snapping back and being experts at our region, experts at operating in the environments we're actually aligned.

• 28:01Fran Racioppi?

  I think the relationship piece is a big differentiator, too.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:06Fran Racioppi?

  You know, when you work with these allies, you know, partner nations over and over again, you have you develop a personal relationship.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 28:15Fran Racioppi?

  And it's like we talk about in in my security company every day, every day. People don't give contracts to people they don't know.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  And they don't trust.

• 28:23Fran Racioppi?

  And right. And so, you know, we can call people all day long and say, hey, you know, we're a security integrator. Are you looking for a partner for this project? And they're going to tell us, no, they're going to hang up the phone, they're not going to reply to email, until we build a relationship with them.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 28:36Fran Racioppi?

  Until we do something with them.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 28:38Fran Racioppi?

  Until we do a small project.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 28:40Fran Racioppi?

  And maybe it's not, maybe we lose money. Hopefully not a lot, but maybe we we break even on something. And that's going to lead to a bigger project and then a bigger project and a bigger project. I mean, you heard me on the phone before we started. I mean, that relationship that we have with one of our strategic partners as a company started from a $500 job.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:00Fran Racioppi?

  And we do millions a year with them now because they know us, they trust us. And that happens in the military, that happens with our allies, with our partners. And I think that as we look across, you know, the and and we are in a constant state of evaluation, I guess, as a country, you know, as to how we interact with our partners and our allies, remembering that, I think, is is really, really important. I think we're seeing that today, even with, you know, the Iran conflict with our relationship with the Israelis.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 29:29Fran Racioppi?

  And the ability to just operate truly as a joint combined force.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, fair and what you're saying is it just comes down to trust. I mean, it's it's human nature for us to not trust folks that aren't vetted. Right. But as soon as you actually establish that trust, now you just know, whether it's at an individual level or even an organizational level. I can trust that, you know, First Battalion, Third Special Forces Group is going to kind of come in here because organizationally, I've dealt with that organization. I know their organizational culture. I know how they act and respond to situations. I can trust them to go out and do this thing. But that's the key is how is trust established? You know, trust is established by, you know, building confidence. And that confidence is established by building a demonstrated competence.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  So, you know, competence equals confidence, which then gets to trust. And once we get to trust, now there's no questions asked. Just like you were talking about earlier with your company, right? There's no questions asked. You're just boom, you're just getting it. And that's what we've got to be able to do. But it all starts with confidence, which circles right back to the comments we were talking about earlier. You know, everything we do in all situations matters. People are watching and, you know, establishing that competence, you know, with it with all the things that we do, whether it's in training or not, makes a big difference.

• 30:49Fran Racioppi?

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• 31:21Fran Racioppi?

  The Army, the Department of War, the Special Forces Regiment has evolved tremendously throughout your career.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:31Fran Racioppi?

  There are three generations in the military right now that will quickly be down to two generations, I believe, in my mind. And, you know, right now, you have, at the most senior leadership level, you still have pre-9/11 leaders at the strategic level. But, I mean, 30, 35 year, like, that's it. Like, everybody, the army, everyone's time in the army comes to an end at some point.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 31:56Fran Racioppi?

  For a variety of reasons. But, you know, so that generation is fairly rapidly coming out of the ranks. You have the 9/11 generation, my peers, we saw 9/11, we jumped on board, and that became the global war on terror generation. And now you have a generation of soldier who was born after 9/11.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:18Fran Racioppi?

  And the job of army leaders right now, and you lived that over the last couple of years, is to, how do you bridge the gap? How do you bring those three generations together? How do you knowledge transfer everything from the pre-9/11 generation, the GWOT generation, to this generation that, in a lot of ways, until the last month or so, you know, really benefited from possibly our generation's almost doing too good of a job? In that, you know, we haven't had that major attack on US soil. We haven't had, you know, some of the events that we've had in the past. And, you know, we'll talk in a minute

• 33:00Fran Racioppi?

  about the rapid evolution of technology since invasion into Afghanistan, from what we're seeing today. But the job of senior army leadership right now is to bridge that gap. How are they doing that?

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, well, they do it in a very collaborative way. I think that there's, at least it's been my experience, even, you know, some of the most senior leaders in our army, and I'd say, you know, more broadly speaking in the military as well, like to take advantage of listening to younger folks in their formations. As a matter of fact, now, because there's so much change in and change in so rapidly, we almost need it. We almost need to have those conversations with younger folks in our formations to kind of be able to Figure out where this thing is going because we just don't know. It's just advancing so quickly. So, so I think those conversations are, you know, at least I know what was going on in my last headquarters,

• 33:52Speaker 01

  US European Command, where myself and, you know, at the time, the deputy commander would spend a lot of time in our formations, doing town halls and having some discussions and just kind of understanding everything from just personnel challenges, you know, day-to-day challenges. But at the same time, you know, what are we doing? Let's, let's talk operational stuff, you know? How are things actually advancing from an operational perspective? How can, are there new things that we could be doing that we're not necessarily seeing right now? Because it's very easy to get your blinders on and get kind of comfortable trotting down the same path you've been trotting down for a long time. So taking those blinders off and having those conversations is key. So that's one way. So that's, that's one way conversation.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Now, what are we doing to also be able to transfer, you know, the experience that, that long, you know, tenured experience that we have, like a guy like me, you know, 38 years, more than 38 years in the service, came in the early 90s, dealt with, you know, a lot of stuff, you know, kind of pre 9/11, transitioned through, you know, post 9/11 into, you know, GWAT and a couple of different theaters and everything else. It was just kind of fantastic to see all that. But you know, the transfer, you know, some of that stuff off to younger folks is, has to happen through storytelling. You gotta be able to sit down and have those conversations, tell the stories and do it in a way that actually matters. You know, my own experience is, you know, before 9/11, you know, we didn't have all the training resources

• 35:16Speaker 01

  that we got after 9/11. So we were much more lean and had to be much more creative about, you know, doing training scenarios. We were much more focused on doing J sets and foreign internal defense and not all the things that were, we were doing post 9/11. That generation like yourself that came in post 9/11, that got to do the things that are associated with GWAT against a different mission set than would be the natural mission set for special forces is, was fantastic. And now we're kind of shifting, maybe not back to the same old point, but to a point that looks Very similar to that, but maybe a little bit different for whatever large scale combat operations is going to actually throw for us, right? What is the Green Berets value proposition in that environment?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  We're still trying to kind of figure that stuff out. But, but also I think the, the Green Berets that were in after nine 11, especially in the early years, in the early 2000s and kind of came up through and got to see all the things that we were doing in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And now we're kind of having to shift back to a, you know, a J set kind of, you know, op tempo. It's different for them. And I think a lot of them are trying to kind of figuring that out. There's value in that though. And, and for having them to, helping them to understand the value in it is probably senior leader responsibility in terms of having those conversations. Through telling stories about their own real world experiences that they might've had before nine 11 themselves. And it goes back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier, relationships, you know, those relationships are absolutely going to matter as one thing.

• 36:45Fran Racioppi?

  I think also the development and definition of what the culture is.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:49Fran Racioppi?

  And so we've had been fortunate to sit down with, with the Sergeant Major of the Army with Mike Weimer numerous times. The most recent conversation we had with him was a couple of weeks ago and we brought in retired Sergeant Major Rick Merritt from this.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  I saw Rick, he told, he told me about it.

• 37:03Fran Racioppi?

  And Rick was great, but you know, they really broke down this concept that you enter the army, you enter, and you're a warrior. And your task is war fighting.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:16Fran Racioppi?

  And this concept of being a warrior is a lifestyle. And so when you look at, you know, what are we asking our soldiers, you know, whether they're in special operations or they're in the conventional army. But what we're asking them to do at the end of the day is really develop a mindset and live a lifestyle that is committed to the profession of war fighting. And I thought that that was a very nuanced kind of thought process. And, and the SMA will talk about this concept of compliance to commitment. You know, where you come in the army and they're like, you know, hold the bag over your head and you hold the bag over your head because somebody told you to do it.

• 37:57Fran Racioppi?

  And then eventually, you know, down the road, you realize, well, you know, I hold the bag over my head because it's good for me.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:03Fran Racioppi?

  Right.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:04Fran Racioppi?

  You know, whatever that bag may be. And so I think when we look at how are we actually bridging that gap? How are we getting this younger generation to understand the importance of what they're doing?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:16Fran Racioppi?

  And why it matters? Why does it matter to the Army? Why does it matter to, to the US as a country and the protection of our, of our national security? I think that concept of, of developing a culture around this warrior mindset becomes really important.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I completely agree. And the thing that I might add to that is, you know, creating a culture that actually inspires its people to be great is huge as well. Um, because it, when you're in an organization that, that truly inspires and not only just inspires, but encourages greatness. That's when you get to, you know, kind of tap into that, that resource that you can't tap into nine to five or, or from six in the morning till five in the afternoon. When we actually have our soldiers in formation, uh, because, you know, through institutional training and organizational training, we kind of, we can, we can get so far. Uh, but the third leg in that stool is, you know, what are you doing on your own time? What are you doing to actually make yourself an expert?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  So, um, and, you know, I just remember my own experience as a young 18 Echo, um, you know, out of learning Morse code, trying to get better at Morse code. Talking about antenna theory. I mean, I was, you know, pardon it, but I was, I was geeking out about a lot of that stuff. And I spent a lot of my own time to include, you know, being a ham operator to be really not just good enough, but great. You know, how, and, and people around me were all kind of aspiring to be great in their own fields as well. So creating a culture that actually inspires people to greatness is huge, but that's all goes back to that culture that we're kind of talking about.

• 39:49Fran Racioppi?

  And that translates too, when, when guys get out, I mean, you know, our majority of my company are SF guys. And we're asking them to do things they've never done.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:57Fran Racioppi?

  I mean, we're, we're asking the guy who's a 18 Delta National Guard, uh, guy who spent a career in the postal service to be a low voltage electrician.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:07Fran Racioppi?

  And put in alarm panels and cameras. And the amount of times where he calls me late at night because he's Up researching stuff and teaching himself about fire alarms. It were three months ago, you didn't know anything about them. And now guys are calling him from the job, asking him what to do.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:22Fran Racioppi?

  And he knows how to do it. And it translates and it's important. And, you know, to the point about standards, you know, they, they set a new standard. And even having spent and having been fortunate to spend the amount of time that I did. I had three years on an O D A as a detachment career, which is unheard of.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  But

• 40:39Fran Racioppi?

  Good for you. The fact that these, that even in my own company, I'm motivated to work harder because of the guys that are around me. Because I see that they're committed. They don't know everything about what we're asking them to do. We got another guy who, who was a sergeant major and now he's doing business development. For us. And I wake up every day motivated because it's a race to see who's got the first new chat message to somebody in the morning. And, you know, what are they going to throw out there that we got to figure out today? And so, you know, it makes your organization better.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:13Fran Racioppi?

  It really does.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Especially in, in, in just amplifying this point, it really, you really see it in terms of individuals behaviors. And what are they doing past five o'clock in the afternoon? Right? Because if they're still kind of spinning and spinning in a positive direction, in a positive way about making themselves better. Then, you know, you got the right person. Not, not all, you know, professions actually kind of pushing that direction. I think as warriors in our army, we should absolutely be striving for excellence with everything that we do. Regardless of where you sit, doesn't matter if you're in the infantry, if you're in sustainment or in special forces. I need all of you to be an expert.

• 41:55Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, well, in the words of General Jim Linder, when guys would leave at five or six in the afternoon, he had a very simple question. You're only working half a day?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. I think I've heard him say that.

• 42:07Fran Racioppi?

  And I would always tell them, no, sir, they're just going home to work from home for the rest of the day.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  That's right. I want to talk about what we're, a little bit about what we're seeing today.

• 42:15Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  So we're seeing a present day in conflict with Iran.

• 42:22Fran Racioppi?

  capabilities that if we look back to the days of pre nine eleven invasion into Afghanistan and in the days after nine eleven and the invasion into Iraq, it is a it is a different military. It's a different army. You know, we can talk about the culture. We can talk about, you know, the quality of the guys, which we know we've we've spoken at length about the evolution of them. But, you know, the people, people matter and relatively, you know, what we recruited for, you know, 20 years ago is what we're recruiting for today. And there's a little bit of spin on it. But our capabilities and our technology has rapidly evolved. And somebody said, and it kind of made me very angry a couple of weeks ago. They said, Well, I don't understand. Why didn't

• 43:03Fran Racioppi?

  we just do this when we went into Iraq? And I said, These things didn't exist when we went into Iraq. These capabilities that we have in the Air Force and the Navy, you know, in the Army, didn't exist back then. You had in your last roles, you were at the strategic level where you were at the forefront of understanding, how do we as a military prepare for what is termed large scale combat operations, that LSCO environment. But I don't think anybody truly understood some of the capabilities and the advancement that we have. When you look at the technology that we have, you know, as a military today, and you see it employed in some of the ways that we've seen it employed over the last month or so, you know, how do you assess

• 43:48Fran Racioppi?

  that capability?

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, it's one, the capability is phenomenal. I mean, it's really kind of one of a kind capability in terms of what our US military can actually do at scale very, very quickly. It's, you know, I hate to say it, but, you know, kind of unmatched, honestly, some of the things that we're doing. And it's tremendous. And I think that as we operate always, when we go into these ventures as a joint force, first and foremost, and then beyond that, you know, with our allies, you know, to our left and right, nine times out of 10. And that brings great power. But let me go back to just kind of operating as that joint force in a multi domain environment and being able to synchronize things and the

• 44:32Speaker 01

  That we do as quickly as we do, like I said before, it's just unmatched and it is truly impressive. And that's when you know you got something that's really going good because now you can actually synchronize very, very quickly, you know, respond very, very quickly, get, you know, new information, you know, introduced into that Oodaloop, if you will, that now has you kind of slew in another direction, move very, very quickly in that direction and continue to actually offer effects there as well, both kinetically and non kinetically, it's just tremendous. And like you mentioned, we've advanced very a lot, a lot in just the last two and a half decades since, since nine 11. And at the same time, you know, that's still a relative short span of time.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  When you kind of think of our military over, you know, it's all the evolution that's gone on through the military since inception. So who knows where we're going to be 10 years from now? And that's what I kind of think about, especially with, you know, quantum, you know, computing kind of coming in, AI obviously is something that, you know, people are leaning in on heavily, you know, as well and being able to kind of, you know, not have just a descriptive look at data, but really a prescriptive look and even a, you know, predictive and prescriptive look of where we need to be going and be able to do that very, very quickly by, you know, offering tools that AI can, that we can leverage AI to actually give us to do exactly that. And then the other thing that, you know, when I kind of think about this is, you know, what is the human potential beyond

• 45:59Speaker 01

  that? If AI is doing all, you know, things for us that we would normally do listed one through 10, we never had time, you know, as, as human entities to kind of get through, you know, 11 to 20, now we have opportunities to do that. I think in the next 10 years, it's going to be phenomenal, you know, what we actually bring, bring to the battlefield because AI is going to make us that much better. But don't make mistake that for, you know, the fact that we still got to have, you know, an army that's large and robust with all the tools that we have that's enhanced by AI to do what we've always done, you know, be on the ground, protect it, protect the people, fight on the ground and be able to, you know, leverage that as well.

• 46:41Fran Racioppi?

  At the end of the day, you can achieve a lot through the Navy and an Air Force, but you have to take and hold ground. Soldiers have to take and hold ground.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 46:49Fran Racioppi?

  You know, Marines have to take and hold ground. I think we're seeing that start to creep into some of the discussions today when we look at the Iran conflict. And by the time this goes out, you know, who knows where we'll be with with respect to that.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:01Fran Racioppi?

  But those capabilities have to exist. One of the things that's fascinated me over the last couple of weeks and every day seemingly I'll read a report or I'll see something on on some other technology and I'll just say, how did we think about that? How do we stay ahead? You know, and so I think that's probably my question to you is, who is thinking about these things? Who is staying ahead? You know, and what is that thought process that goes through our innovation cells within the Department of War that says, hey, this is the capability we're going to need in three, five, 10 years to stay ahead of the adversary?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't know this to be fact, but you know, I'll speculate a little bit here, just kind of my read of the environment is one, the Department of War is, you know, kind of crushing the acquisition process now and really closing the gap between, you know, industry and the military services. And then by doing so, you know, that gives you an opportunity through experimentation to come up with new innovative ways to do things. But more than that, and importantly, we're also kind of crushing the gap between senior leadership and things that go on at the tactical level where senior leaders like General Don, as you, I remember specifically at, you know, 18th Airborne Corps and even now today in his current position is, you know, all the time is working things to bring

• 48:19Speaker 01

  young people with great ideas into conversations to think about, how can we do things differently? So having that that that intersection, you know, that of between, you know, industry, young folks that are on the ground that are operating this thing, you know, at a tactical level, at an operational level, you know, with the Army or the other services, all kind of coming together at the same time to answer those questions for here today, but importantly, figuring out where we need to be for tomorrow as well. And I think there's All kinds of goodness in that. And we didn't necessarily see that before. I, I think to some extent you've seen that and maybe even large extent, seen that in special operations formations. I mean, SOCOM has always been one to,

• 49:02Speaker 01

  one entity that would take ground up feedback to kind of get new innovative ways to solve problems for the organization. But then it wasn't necessarily the case in, you know, the big services, you know, army specifically, you know, there was a lot of bureaucracy there. There was ways to do it, but it was very bureaucratic. We're crushing that now and now. And we're getting ourselves closer and closer to industry. And it's just big industry and small as well. So I think there's, you know, great utility in that.

• 49:30Fran Racioppi?

  What do you think the biggest threat is to the US?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's a loaded question and, you know, I don't, I don't know if I have a great answer for that. I mean, I think that the greatest threat, I mean, the threat that we're focused on right now, obviously is, you know, kind of China and the nexus and everything that kind of surrounds China with, you know, Russia, Iran and others. I think that's something that we've got to continue to pay attention to. You know, that's kind of big. We have to, you know, kind of pay attention to nuclear threats that are out there as well. I mean, I think that's obviously some of the reason why we're in Iran right now to make sure that bad people that, that might want to gain control of nuclear material to, you know, pose threats to ourselves or our allies. We've got to pay attention to that for sure. And then I think we've just got to pay attention to ourselves.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  You know, you know, this country, in my opinion, this is my humble opinion, it's been very divisive for way, way too long. And I'd love to find ways to get, you know, kind of leadership together to get ourselves back on a positive path. I don't know how we get there, but it'd be great to actually get in that space.

• 50:33Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Okay. My, my kids will let us know that we're running out of time because, you know, we're almost there. They're, they're starting to, they're getting anxious.

• 50:40Fran Racioppi?

  You spend a tremendous amount of time serving overseas. A lot of that time in the European theater. There's a lot of conversation in all sides about our relationship with the European allies. You know, my opinion is that, you know, our relationship with the European allies is critical, you know, always has been critical, always will be critical to the protection of America and the world order as we understand it. What is your assessment of our current relationship with our European allies and where does it need to go?

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Well, first and foremost, you know, I agree with your opinion. My opinion is the same. I think that our relationship with our NATO allies has been, you know, strong and needed and still will be needed. It's been fantastic, you know, as living there for the last eight years in two different positions, one at Army Europe and then, you know, for the last three years at US European Command, you know, I could, I can definitely speak to my own personal relationships with senior leaders, both officers and enlisted, you know, throughout the NATO alliance. Those relationships matter and the nations in Europe as that are part of NATO work diligently to get better. And obviously in the last, you know, several

• 51:52Speaker 01

  years, they're working even faster because they understand that they need to be better and they're working to actually get a whole lot better. So I think these relationships is something that we've got to continue to pour energy into because I think the collective protection that kind of comes with being part of this alliance matters to everybody that's actually inside of it, to include the United States. I think there's great utility in being a positive leader inside of NATO and being and remaining connected to NATO.

• 52:21Fran Racioppi?

  Your transition journey has just started.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:25Fran Racioppi?

  And the transition journey is just like everyone's military service is different for everybody. And, you know, we go through stages in our transition, you know, when we first get out and you have, you're out a couple of years, you're out a decade and I think everybody kind of looks back on their service in different ways. You're at the outset of that, you know, and you will evolve as you kind of move down that road. But when you look back on your 38 years of service, how do you remember that today?

• 52:51Speaker 01

  I kind of remember it in stages, you know, so that's nearly four decades of service and I would probably almost break it down into, you know, kind of, you know, decade chunks, if you will. And really most of it's kind of pre 9/11, kind of post 9/11 as I was kind of growing up from being a team sergeant up to, you know, battalion leadership and then beyond that and then kind of culminating in the, in the last few years that I had at a very senior level. And through all that time, one thing that remains Consistent, you know, and this is just for me speaking personally is that, you know, my, my desire to be good myself, to be an expert and kind of, you know, lead by example

• 53:32Speaker 01

  through that, but at the same time be serving and being able to make sure that I never forgot where I came from and find a way each and every day to kind of serve those that are at the ground level and do that through, you know, positive relationships that are kind of, you know, built and nurtured through time. That's something that's been a consistent thing, you know, through my entire career. And if anybody says that I had any success in my career, I'd give credit to that success by just being surrounded by good people and me personally just being good to them. And I think that absolutely makes a big difference. And you think, think about transition. So for me, I didn't plan on staying for 38 years. I think the army and SOCOM kind of had a different plan for me. I honestly planned to get out

• 54:16Speaker 01

  of about 20 years of service and had an RV and no home and a solid plan to do that. And then life happened and I ended up with 38 years. But a lot of that was based on having a lot of respect for some very senior leaders that asked me to come in and do a job for them. And I couldn't tell them no. I couldn't tell them no. I said, absolutely, I'll do that job. I'm humbled to actually do that job for you and I'm just not going to quit. So before you know it, you end up at 38 years. So just retired, as you, as you know, I think, officially on one November of last year. So I am early in my journey of, of transition into the civilian sector. Still working on growing out a little bit of hair here. It won't get too crazy. I won't let it get much crazier than it is right now, unless my wife

• 55:01Speaker 01

  has her way. So we'll see.

• 55:03Fran Racioppi?

  What are you most looking forward to?

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Uh, I have young twins that you hear in the background that are six years old now. And, you know, giving them a lot of my attention, you know, I have three older boys whom I'm very proud of. All of them have actually served in the army themselves. Um, you know, my wife, my first wife and I, you know, split up after a number of years and I spent a lot of time away from them and didn't get, you know, Give them as much attention as I probably couldn't should have. Now I think I'm gonna have the luxury to, you know, give these kids a whole bunch of attention and look to see what they're gonna be doing and watch them actually grow. And at the same time, I'm excited about being back on this side of the Atlantic and closer

• 55:47Speaker 01

  to my older boys and getting closer to those relationships as well. So, simply said, I just wanna get close to the family that are people that are closest to this flagpole.

• 55:59Fran Racioppi?

  And you've got new opportunity at AUSA. So, great partnership, association of the US Army between us and them. And certainly leveraged our relationship with SMA Daily. But, you know, really great organization and great spot for you to be and excited to see you over there and continue to build our relationship between QBF and AUSA and us on the Jedburgh Podcast. So, I'm glad you're going over there because we got a trusted friend over there.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And, you know, at the end of the day, whether it's AUSA, and I'm humbled and proud to actually be part of that team, still serving the Army, just doing it from a different foxhole. So, that's great. But AUSA, like GBF, like others in this space, you know, we all exist for, you know, different reasons, but there's a lot of common ground there too, you know? And it's really kind of taking care of our folks. And I'm glad to be working in a place where I can help to take care of our folks.

• 56:56Fran Racioppi?

  Yep. And I said, GBF have enlisted the help of your wife to lead the Steel Mags program. So, we're gonna sit down with her in short order and she's gonna do great things, really, leading a program that is very important to the spouses of our operators, our Green Berets who are out there. And so, I look forward to her success and working with her and working with you. So, thanks for inviting us to your house and thanks for spending time with us. I mean, you know, you've got decades and decades of experience, but at the end of the day, a leader's job is to leave the next generation better than we were when we went in. And I can tell you that, you certainly did that. And for all of us who kind of, you know, who served under you and around you, you know,

• 57:41Fran Racioppi?

  you said earlier, there are legends within the force and you were certainly one of them. And I appreciate everything you've done for all of us.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Thanks, friend. That's, you know, I appreciate those comments. I don't feel like I deserve them, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to actually come and spend a little bit of time with me in my home here. You're welcome back anytime.

• 57:58Fran Racioppi?

  Awesome. Thank you.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 58:01Fran Racioppi?

  American Jedbergs went on to form the foundation of the United States Special Forces and the Special Activities Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Thanks for listening to the Jedburgh Podcast, an official program of the Green Beret Foundation. I'm your creator and host, Fran Richopin. Join us next week for a new episode on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check us out on YouTube for full episodes, highlights, and other long and short form content. If you like what you heard, give us a like and leave a review. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, X or Threads. Send your comments and inquiries to Fran at JedbergPodcast.com. As former members of Special Operations Forces, the Jedburgh Media Channel, and the Green Beret Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of US Army Special Forces and their families. Thanks for joining us on this episode.

• 58:46Fran Racioppi?

  How you prepare today determines success tomorrow.