#733: Live 10th Anniversary Random Show with Kevin Rose — Exploring What’s Next, Testing Ozempic, Modern Dating, New Breakthrough Treatments for Anxiety, Bitcoin ETFs, Mike Tyson vs. Jake Paul, and Engineering More Awe in Your Life

This week is officially the podcast’s 10-year anniversary, and there is no better way to commemorate such a wild milestone than with Kevin Rose and a little tequila. As many listeners know, Kevin was my very first guest https://tim.blog/2014/04/22/tim-ferriss-podcast/ for episode 1, way back in April 2014. Timestamps for this episode are available below. Sponsors: Nordic Naturals https://www.nordic.com/tim, the #1-selling fish-oil and algae-oil brand in the U. S.: https://www.nordic.com/tim https://www.nordic.com/tim/ (20% off) Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover https://eightsleep.com/Tim sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: https://eightsleep.com/tim (save $200 on the Pod Cover) AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://drinkag1.com/tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.) Timestamps: [00:00] Start [07:20] First live Random Show? [07:50] Reasons to celebrate. [08:30] How long can this go on? [10:15] Mmm…Mmm. [11:53] Inflection points. [13:00] Interesting over impulse. [14:46] Bitcoin ETFs. [17:22] PROOF news. [18:41] What’s Kevin’s next project? [21:15] Don’t DIY your TMS. [22:57] The SAINT protocol and accelerated TMS. [23:42] Kevin wonders how magnets work. [24:27] How accelerated TMS has helped me. [28:02] Consumer access to accelerated TMS. [31:50] How TMS feels, and other possible uses. [32:49] Potential downsides. [35:10] How to find out more about accelerated TMS. [38:18] How to appear human in social situations. [45:20] Jinjer and Sohn. [46:24] Android and Gemini. [48:41] Content production and future fame. [49:58] Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson. [52:02] Kevin’s deflated balls. [55:49] My single life. [59:39] Extending experiential lifespan. [1:06:12] This is (Henry Shukman’s) The Way. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts https://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books https://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Margaret Atwood https://tim.blog/2022/02/22/margaret-atwood/, Mark Zuckerberg https://tim.blog/2022/03/24/mark-zuckerberg/, Peter Thiel https://tim.blog/2014/09/09/peter-thiel/, Dr. Gabor Maté https://tim.blog/2018/02/20/gabor-mate/, Anne Lamott https://tim.blog/2021/07/09/anne-lamott/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Nordic Naturals, the number one selling fish oil and algae oil brand in the U.S. And I actually have used both of those, their fish oil and algae oil, for more than a year now. I alternate back and forth. It is one of the few supplements that I always travel with. Trusted by doctors and healthcare professionals since 1995, Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega and Algae Omega provide foundational support for heart and brain health, immune system function, and more. More than 80% of Americans, and probably many of you listening outside of the U.S., do not get enough omega-3 fats from their diet. That is a problem because the body cannot produce omega-3s. We cannot produce that endogenously, meaning in our bodies ourselves. We need to get it from diet.

• 0:45Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:30Tim Ferriss?

  It's just made me a grumpy Gus and really upset my guts. So, none of those issues so far in my trial run for a year-plus of using Nordic Naturals. Nordic Naturals are Friend of the Sea certified and sustainably made in a zero-waste facility, partially powered by biofuel. They're also non-GMO, and they are third-party tested, meeting or surpassing the strictest international standards for purity and freshness. If you want proof, you can visit their website. Check it out, where they can provide certificates of analysis for every one of their products. So, learn more. If you've been wondering what type of omega-3 you should take, which ones are properly vetted and tested and have quality assured, check out Nordic Naturals. Go to Nordic.com/Tim

• 2:13Tim Ferriss?

  and discover why Nordic Naturals is the number one selling omega-3 brand in the US. And while you're there, use promo code TIM for 20% off of your order. That's Nordic, N-O-R-D-I-C.com/Tim and code TIM for 20% off.

• 2:32Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top, and repeating all of that ad nauseam. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why? Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. The Pod Cover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment, providing the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. With the Pod Cover's dual-zone temperature control, you and your partner can set your sides of the bed to as cool as 55 degrees or as hot as 110 degrees.

• 3:14Tim Ferriss?

  I think generally in my experience, my partners prefer the high side, and I like to sleep very, very cool. So stop fighting. This helps. Based on your biometrics, environment, and sleep stages, the Pod Cover makes temperature adjustments throughout the night that limit wake-ups and increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the Pod Cover sensors also track your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. If you have a partner, great, you can split the zones, and you can sleep at your own ideal temperatures. It's easy. So go to eightsleep.com/Tim, spelled out, eightsleep.com/Tim, and save $200 on the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada,

• 3:58Tim Ferriss?

  the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia.

• 4:03Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start to shake.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  No, I would assume appropriate time.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 4:26Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to sit down with world-class performers of all different types, to tease out the habits, routines, favorite books, and so on, that you can apply and test in your own lives. And I have said, ladies and germs, hundreds of times now, it is crazy to think that the 10th anniversary is this week officially of the podcast. And there's no better way to commemorate such a wild milestone, something I never could have imagined, than with my good buddy Kevin Rose and a little tequila. Because, as many of you listeners know, Kevin was my very first guest for

• 5:06Tim Ferriss?

  episode one, way back in April 2014. So this time, rather than me interviewing someone who is more or less a stranger to me, or less known to me, we have a very special episode I recorded with Kevin at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. So for those who do not know, who is Kevin? Kevin is a partner at True Ventures, an early-stage venture capital firm that has invested more than 3.8 billion in a portfolio of more than 350 companies. He's also a serial entrepreneur. He's founded a bunch of companies. He's an all-around wacky and crazy guy, and we go way, way, way back. He also hosts the Kevin Rose Show. Sound familiar? Tim Ferriss Show, Kevin Rose Show. That's Kev Kev Roro,

• 5:49Tim Ferriss?

  which, that's an inside joke for very early listeners, which offers glimpses of the future into investing, artificial intelligence, wellness, and culture, featuring conversations with experts at the vanguard of their fields. And for those people who want bonus credit, you can send a hashtag Kev Kev Roro to Kevin Rose on Twitter. And if you don't get that joke, don't worry about it. In this episode, we meander all over the place. We catch up, as we do, discussing the dangers of audience capture, Kevin's Bitcoin ETF strategy, novel mental health treatments, including one very, very innovative treatment that I'm incredibly excited about for not just depression, but also anxiety, which does not involve any drugs, modern dating, Ozempic and its cousins, testing these types of things, time dilation.

• 6:33Tim Ferriss?

  How to increase, hopefully awe in your own life and the reasons you might want to consider that. Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul and so much more. So let's get to it, shall we? Go to kevinrose.com to learn more about Kevin or follow him on Instagram at Kevin Rose. And I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. 10 years. What a, what a thing to say. And I'd never thought it would ever last this long. Started off as a lark, a little experiment, and ended up with the best job in the world. So thank you for listening. Gives me great joy to have these conversations and provide these. And that's enough for my intro. Thanks for listening, everybody.

• 7:20Tim Ferriss?

  Good afternoon, everybody.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Hello, hello.

• 7:23Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks for being here. Hi, Kevin.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Tim, Tim. We're doing it.

• 7:26Tim Ferriss?

  Kev, Kev, we're doing it.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Is this our first ever live? I think so. I think we've always just been at your apartment or house drinking tequila.

• 7:36Tim Ferriss?

  It's usually how it goes. It's a very formal affair. So thanks for being everybody. And

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Cheers.

• 7:42Tim Ferriss?

  Cheers.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  With our water.

• 7:43Tim Ferriss?

  With our quote unquote water.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  It's good to see everyone. Thank you for coming out. This is awesome. We have, we have a lot to talk about and a lot to celebrate because Mr. Tim Ferriss has hit 1 billion downloads of his podcast.

• 8:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So you are the first to hear this. It actually happened mid last year and I was waiting for the right time to talk about it. And so I figured, why not talk about it today? So hell of a milestone. Who would have thought?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  I mean, so many bots.

• 8:15Tim Ferriss?

  At our, so many bots. And after our first episode where I asked you if you had to be a breakfast cereal, what you would choose and why, and then you busted my balls relentlessly and that continues. So some things stay the same. And 10th anniversary is coming up. Yeah, 10 years.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  How long are you gonna keep doing this?

• 8:33Tim Ferriss?

  I'll keep doing it as long as it's fun. I still enjoy doing it. I'll probably tighten things a little bit in the sense that return to some basics. Really try to be aware of not automatically following the majority in terms of trends or new platforms. I think that's a dangerous seduction. Can be helpful, but you want to be thoughtful about it. So I'll probably back off of video in a lot of ways, as one example. And especially personally, we'll back off of short form video. Not because there's anything inherently bad about it, but that's just not my game. So I like to choose games where there's some Venn diagram overlap of energy in for me. Recharging and also capability. Yeah.

• 9:15Tim Ferriss?

  So a good question that I like to ask friends, I like to ask myself is, you know, what is easier for you than other people, whatever that is? And typically you'll have an advantage there. You either have some particular skill or you have some particular type of endurance that will give you a competitive advantage. Not that you have to compete, it's not zero sum, but holy shit is podcasting crowded. It is really, really crowded. And there's some very, very, very talented interviewers out there. Yeah. So it's become a much more saturated red ocean of sorts. And the practice for me, as I pause at 10 years will be to think about

• 9:56Tim Ferriss?

  how I can create more blue oceans for myself, which I find more exciting. But if it's 15 years, 20 years, I'm gonna be having these conversations no matter what. Yeah. The question is, do I record them and then put them on a podcast? I don't know, but I'll continue to have these conversations. So my feeling is, why not just record them? It's not a heavy lift.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  When you think back over, say, those last 10 years, there has to be, not in a slamming way, but there has to be some really challenging interviews that you've had in terms of just like, someone was just so sharp you couldn't keep up? Or just like, oh God, I was really hoping this would go better. Like, any fun stories? You don't, maybe not that this would go better, but like, who was just like so sharp they just absolutely blew you away?

• 10:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, there's so many. I mean, there are a lot. I mean, Martin Rothblatt comes to mind as one who's just incredibly, incredibly sharp. There are many others. I can tell you one where I was the most intimidated and it showed up in the recording, which was with Ed Catmull of Pixar at the time, who was the first person I interviewed who I had not had any previous contact with. And we got on, had no established rapport, of course, very nice guy, very sharp. And I was so nervous. I'll flash forward and give you the punchline. On Twitter and other places, I saw feedback, dozens of tweets that said something like,

• 11:24Tim Ferriss?

  "Great podcast, but mm, mm, MMM, dot, dot, dot, MMM." And I was like, "What the fuck?" And I went back and I listened to it and every time Ed said anything, I was like, "Mm, mm, mm." Super Japanese. I can say that. I used to live there. And I was just like, "Wow." I am like compulsively, nervously indulging myself with this tic. And these days, we would fix something like that. But at the time, I was like, "Oh, still work to do."

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Who is the biggest, I have to say, I think, I can probably guess this, but in terms of like fanboy, I mean, obviously Arnold, now you're best friends with, we see you pictures, you're skiing, you guys play chess, you do all this shit together. Arnold must have been a huge one for you.

• 12:06Tim Ferriss?

  Huge, huge.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Hugh Jackman must have been.

• 12:09Tim Ferriss?

  Also huge.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:11Tim Ferriss?

  Hugh Jackman.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  He's a large man.

• 12:14Tim Ferriss?

  And everything you would hope him to be, as a side note, I would say there were a few inflection points in terms of guests, because at the time, celebrities on podcasts was pretty uncommon. And A-listers on podcasts, quite uncommon. I would say Arnold was certainly one, that first conversation. For me, Tony Robbins was also another, that was a big one. And a lot of these folks did their first podcasts on The Tim Ferriss Show, which was also really fun for me. Jamie Foxx took a year and a half, two years to get booked, and that just blew my mind. He is the ultimate performer on every level. Jamie Foxx and Hugh Jackman, I would say, certainly standouts in terms of decathletes of entertainment. They can do everything. It's incredible. So I'd say those stand out certainly as a couple of inflection points.

• 13:00Tim Ferriss?

  And it's just been experiment after experiment and it's very personally driven. And that is to keep my interest high. And it's also to try to counteract any impulse to chase Google trends and whatever might be in the news cycle, right? So for instance, there was a year where my first interview with Bology went parabolic and completely insane in terms of downloads. I mean, millions upon millions upon millions of downloads. And there was

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Is this one where he got a lot of predictions right?

• 13:33Tim Ferriss?

  He did, yeah. He got a lot of predictions right. I would say that in that particular case, we had an internal conversation and I think that you have to be very careful about your audience shaping you. You can become a caricature of your most extreme views or behaviors. And if you allow that to drive your behavior, you can become the mask that you wear. And I've seen that, we've both seen that with folks who have their most extreme views and headlines reinforced on, say, YouTube. And then they suddenly replicate that and emphasize it and they become that person. They become the actor on the stage. So you have to be careful about that. And the impulse was to do more crypto, more crypto, more crypto. I said, no, we're not going to do that.

• 14:15Tim Ferriss?

  Actually, we're going to do zero crypto for a while, just to make it clear that our priorities for the show are a little bit different. So I continue to be thrilled by conversations. I've had a lot of fun and I'll keep doing it as long as it's interesting.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 14:33Tim Ferriss?

  Because if it's not interesting for me, it's not, that's going to be clear to the people who listen. Do you know what I mean?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 14:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  We got a lot to talk about.

• 14:41Tim Ferriss?

  We have a lot to talk about and we have much more limited time than we would normally have.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Forty seven minutes left.

• 14:46Tim Ferriss?

  So let's jump into it.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  You want to start? You want me to start?

• 14:48Tim Ferriss?

  I want you to start.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  All right. So we've come up classic random show style with a handful of things to just BS about. Speaking of crypto, I mean, it's having a moment again.

• 14:57Tim Ferriss?

  It is.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Obviously very cyclical type environment, like we're back up, things are going crazy. I did something wild and we always do this weird thing where we say, not weird, but important thing where we say not investment advice.

• 15:10Tim Ferriss?

  Very important.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Over the years, when you leave various jobs, you tend to have like a little 401k sitting over here, or if you've done a Roth IRA or something like that. The nice thing about the fact that we actually have ETFs now is that you can put actual crypto, you buy these actual ETFs that are crypto. I mean, we all saw that that got approved. And so what I decided to do was take all of those retirement accounts, and there's like three or four of them, and just convert them all to Bitcoin ETFs. And this sounds crazy, and I'm not saying that this is for everyone, because certainly I believe

• 15:47Tim Ferriss?

  It's not for everyone.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  It's not for everyone. But the nice thing about it is that at retirement, you get all those gains tax-free. And the thing that people don't know

• 15:56Tim Ferriss?

  If there are gains.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  If there are gains. Yes, that's right. If there are gains. But the thing that people don't know is that there are so many competitive ETFs that are out there, right? You got Blackrock, you have Fidelity, Franklin Templeton, you've got probably another dozen or so, and they all charge management fees. But if you take a look behind the scenes and actually peel back, who's providing the services underneath these, you know, just tickers, it's largely Coinbase. Fidelity is the only one, I think, that does their own custody of actual crypto. There might be one or two others, but almost everyone is Coinbase on the backend. So really, at the end of the day, what you want is the lowest fee. And so Franklin Templeton

• 16:37Speaker 02

  has the lowest expense ratio of all of these. And so I just moved everything into Franklin Templeton's ETF and just keep it that way. And then at retirement, 59 and a half, you get to start taking disbursements of that. And if there are gains, you get them tax-free. So it's kind of a fun little hack to do, you know, just if you want to see that upside over, you know, the next couple of decades, if there is upside, and take it out tax-free. Obviously, if you're just gonna go buy and hold Bitcoin, why pay the fees, right? There's tons of exchanges you can go and pay less. You don't have to pay an annual fee like you would with an ETF. But if you're gonna do it in a tax-free account, that makes a lot of sense.

• 17:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  So that's my one little fun little thing I did the last couple of weeks. I've had a lot of fun little things the last couple of weeks, but

• 17:23Tim Ferriss?

  Would be second place on the roster.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Well, we sold proof. So with my NFT venture over the last few years, went to Yuga Labs, which I'm happy, found a home at a place that is actually building, you know, what I consider to be a very high quality game with a micro economy and something that has some real legs to it that hopefully will turn into something that is durable and that is large. I mean, they want to build, the quote I heard was kind of roadblocks for adults, which is like, you know, an infrastructure where you can go and build and create worlds inside of a 3D environment that has its own built-in currency and economy powered by, you know, NFTs and

• 18:05Speaker 02

  actual assets inside of that world. So I realized finally, I came to the stage where, after being a couple of years in, I know I'm not the hardcore DGen. I'm not going to be getting there on stage trying to like, tell people things.

• 18:18Tim Ferriss?

  Tell people about crypto.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Up and up and up. Yeah. Well, I mean, we talked about this at length, you know, a podcast ago, one last time we did the random show. But, you know, I wanted to find a good home. So it was no easy feat to go and work and try and find, you know, someone like Yuga, who if anyone's going to make it, good lord, I hope, you know, they do. So that's been, that's been a nice kind of like transition and new move.

• 18:41Tim Ferriss?

  So personal question related to this. My experience as someone with front row seats to your entrepreneurial journey is every time you have an exit or finish a company, you say, I'm never doing a company again.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Never doing one again.

• 18:53Tim Ferriss?

  Never again. And then six months later, you start another company? So if you were me, what odds would you give Kevin Rose to sticking to that?

• 19:01Speaker 02

  99%, I'm not going to start another company. No, I'm telling you. Well, here's the thing I realized, but this is the true story. Like, and people that have followed this, the stuff and I.

• 19:12Tim Ferriss?

  Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No, more, more. Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. More, more.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  You want to start going down some shit. He brought in tequila behind the scenes. You're not supposed to. So.

• 19:25Tim Ferriss?

  It's all my fault.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  We had a little bit of that.

• 19:26Tim Ferriss?

  Such an enabler.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  So there we go. We might get kicked off stage now. I had to come back with something, that's all I got.

• 19:32Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yes.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  So here's the deal, the one thing I did realize with this startup, two things is that anytime you tie finances to a startup, like, meaning like people's financial well-being, it is a whole nother level of emotion that you get from people that are participating in what you do. And that's the most challenging startup I've ever faced. And then the second thing I realized is that like, I love that early-stage ideation, like, you know, coming up with the idea for Zero Fasting early on before it was a thing, and/or Dig in the early days. I don't like the scaling aspect. I appreciate the one woo out there. Somebody remembers Dig. But I don't appreciate the scaling. I'm just not good at it. It's not

• 20:13Speaker 02

  in my DNA to be able to manage the, call it, when you're just getting started, it's the 10 things you need to do, and then you get to 5, 10 people, 15 people, 20 people, and all of a sudden, there's emotions involved, and not everyone's up to speed, and there's a lot of more of the just logistical management of humans, which is quite challenging for me personally. I like the idea side of things, so I'm done. I mean, I'd much rather focus on things like content creation, and hopefully finding and seeing around corners early enough with the podcast where we can expose people to the next big thing, and they decide whether they want to get involved or not, not me creating that next big thing.

• 20:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and for people who've been paying attention for a long time, Kevin has given previews of the future many, many times on The Random Show, on this podcast. So I do think your superpower, one of your superpowers is either super early-stage, or actually public-market, super-mature, but not in-between. Not so much in-between. So I want to switch gears a little bit and mention something that I'm incredibly excited about, which is...

• 21:23Tim Ferriss?

  The most impressive, let's call it, mental health intervention that I have encountered in the last 10 years. So as some of you may know, I've been very involved with supporting a lot of research, basic science and so on, related to psychedelic compounds and psychedelic therapies. That has been because I believe they can really change the lenses through which we look at psychiatry, mental health, and so-called mental disorders completely, due to some of the effect sizes and durability of, say, effects on complex PTSD, treatment-resistant depression and so on. But I'm actually tool-agnostic, just like with startup investing. I'm looking

• 22:06Tim Ferriss?

  for uncrowded bets with super-high leverage, potential outcomes. I'm quite agnostic about the tools. And I will say, and you and I have talked about this privately a little bit, but in the last, let's call it, year, especially the last six months, I've done a very deep dive on a new iteration of an older technology, which is TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation. So this is a type of brain stimulation. The technology has existed for a number of decades, but the protocols and the neuro-targeting has advanced really quickly.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  There was full subreddits where you could go and learn how to do it yourself at home.

• 22:45Tim Ferriss?

  Don't DIY this. Do not.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  People were literally having burns on their skin from doing it.

• 22:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, this is Darwin Awards territory.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Try that.

• 22:53Tim Ferriss?

  Don't do this, guys. In part because you can make things a lot worse if you don't do it the right way. But to jump to the punchline, I have gone through two rounds of something called accelerated TMS. You can learn a lot about this by looking at a number of scientists, including Nolan Williams out of Stanford. I did an interview with Nolan on the podcast for people who want to do a deep dive. And they developed what was previously known, it's gone through some rebranding, the Saint Protocol, which is a very condensed protocol for administering TMS. So you have these magnets, they elicit, in this case, theta bursts. And typically, you might have TMS treatments over the span of many weeks, many months.

• 23:35Tim Ferriss?

  They're compressing 50 sessions into 10 days, or actually 50 sessions into five days, excuse me.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Pause for one second, though. For people that don't know, what does this look like? You said magnets. I'm thinking like, I don't know what I'm thinking, but like, what are you actually doing? Are you hooking shit up to your head? Are you in a lab? Are you doing it at home?

• 23:54Tim Ferriss?

  You're not doing it at home. You're hooking, so you are in a clinic or a lab, and there are different iterations of this. So my first round was with a company called Brainsway, and they use a particular H7 coil. They're developing new technologies. That's effectively a helmet that you then attach to your head with a chin strap, and based on specific targeting, depending on the condition you're trying to address, which could be depression, treatment-resistant depression, could be generalized anxiety disorder, could be OCD, any number of things.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  ED.

• 24:26Tim Ferriss?

  Right, ED, sure.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Everybody's got their thing.

• 24:28Tim Ferriss?

  If there's magnetic Viagra, then there's a whole new business I need to invest in. So yeah, sure. And then the second round was with Magnus Ventures and a slightly different technology, but it effectively looks like a paddle that is placed on the head. And they use computer vision and pretty sophisticated targeting. But the upshot of this is, going into it, no one will be surprised. I remember when I had my first diagnostic interview with one of these psychiatrists, and we went through this long, multi-hour process, and they said, you know, "You score X, Y, and Z, and it seems like you have moderate to severe OCD." And they're like, "This might take a little while. I know this is heavy news. If you need to take a break." And I was like, "Are you kidding me?

• 25:12Tim Ferriss?

  This is no one, this is a surprise to no one. Let's move on." So I went in with pretty high assessment scores for, just to simplify the whole thing, OCD, which, looking at my family, you'd be like, "Yeah, obviously." And then anxiety, and a lot of long-term listeners will know, bouts of depression. That also is pretty much kind of genetically hardwired.

• 25:38Tim Ferriss?

  Did these two sessions and with three months so far of durability, no longer meet any diagnostic criteria for any of those. It has been the most durable, noticeable, on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, change in my state that I have ever experienced.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Can you give me, or if you care to share, can you give me something like, let's just say on the OCD side, where you were doing it previously, you had the treatments and now it's no longer.

• 26:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, I can give examples. And I should say, your mileage will vary. And the sample sizes are still very, very small for accelerated TMS, which is, I'm an early-stage guy too, right? Like, I like to get involved, but there are many unknowns, many open questions. They're still in, I want to say, sub-thousands in terms of subjects. In some cases, for say OCD, it's probably fewer than 200 would be my guess. I'm making up some of these numbers, but I don't think they're very far off. So there's still a lot to figure out. But as an example, I've had lifelong onset insomnia, where my brain will just not quiet down. And my mind is like, I've been waiting all day to talk to you.

• 26:54Tim Ferriss?

  You know, and it can take me an hour, two hours to fall asleep. In three months, that's effectively gone to zero. None of that.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 27:03Tim Ferriss?

  The best sleep I've had in decades.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Do you look at aura data as well to see like, am I getting the proper deep sleep?

• 27:10Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I haven't gone super granular. I recognize the, how that could be helpful in a sense, but I really feel like we can outsource our awareness to devices and metrics where it's, it's pretty.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Well, you know, when you wake up too.

• 27:28Tim Ferriss?

  If the effect size is large enough, it should be pretty obvious. And I will say, there are some people who respond inversely to this. Right? It can worsen some people's conditions. I've seen a number of lives transformed. We have the most data for depression by far. And if you talk to really competent, sophisticated psychiatrists who've looked, keep abreast of the latest technology, they will say, finally, TMS is delivering on. What we hoped it would deliver, like the promise is finally, finally we're seeing some of the results we were hoping to see.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  So there's been so many devices, even at home devices that claim to do, you know, TMS that you can, you can literally, I've seen them on Amazon. But here's the, the real question is like, okay, obviously you did all the proper due diligence around figuring out who's the best, the best in this business is actually doing the real science. How soon until that actually propagates out to clinics where you would feel comfortable saying, okay, now's the time when the average person can go and do this?

• 28:31Tim Ferriss?

  It's hard to say. I will say on a widely distributed basis, but that's also like Uber Black got all this criticism early on, and then those people subsidized the development of Uber X and over time, cost went down.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  And that's how- What's the price?

• 28:47Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I would say it ranges at this point because insurance will not cover accelerated TMS, at least as far as I'm aware. From, let's call it, if we're looking at competent, well-trained outfits who are vetted, five to 15K for that five day period. But here's the thing, depending on your conditions, depending on your resources, if you were to ask me, how much would you pay to go back 20 years and have this treatment? I'd be like, take half my net worth. It's fine.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  That big a change.

• 29:16Tim Ferriss?

  The payoff is so noticeable. Now, it's not a silver bullet, nor are psychedelic assisted therapies, by the way. It's not one shot, one kill with conditions. So most people will go back for boosters every three to six months for say a single day of treatment, not necessarily five days. But the, when I say effect size, people can look this up, but the magnitude of change and durability is so far beyond- Pretty much any conventional treatment that I can think of, especially if you exclude maintenance therapies that are really just covering symptoms or suppressing symptoms. I'm very, very excited about this. In terms of time, I couldn't tell you. I think that

• 30:00Tim Ferriss?

  it will be more widely available at retail where people pay out of pocket in the next six months to 12 months.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  How will someone know if that has been the same thing that you're doing? Is there some type of certification? Or what do you look for? Because I've seen these types of clinics, or I've seen it being offered in various places.

• 30:20Tim Ferriss?

  I would look for people who have real clinical experience, who are working with established hospitals and have some bona fides. There's a lot of fly-by-night TMS operations, just like there are lots of rent-a-shamans on Craigslist and Facebook who did some weekend yoga course in Costa Rica and suddenly they're gonna save your soul. Probably not a great idea. Similarly, if it's like, "Yeah, we run a dentist's office and we offer TMS," maybe you don't do that. Or like, the people are like, "We will fix your nails and give you semaglutide." Like, "Meh, they'll be mixed in the bathroom." Like, maybe you don't do that. So I think common sense applies, but it has been really fascinating. And the reason

• 31:02Tim Ferriss?

  you don't want to DIY it, or one of the many, many reasons you don't want to DIY it, is that you're dealing with very sensitive circuitry. This whole thing in our heads, as far as I know, is powered on roughly the electricity of a light bulb. We really don't know how it works, how we're able to function at such a high level. I suspect there are all sorts of, and this is true for all factions, like quantum effects and many, many complicated mechanisms that we just do not understand. And when you're applying a magnetic pulse to your brain, and this is simplified, but you're either activating or deactivating, enhancing or suppressing some degree of activity or a network of activity. And if

• 31:46Tim Ferriss?

  you screw that up, you can get the opposite of what you're looking for.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Is there any real-time feeling? Like, when you're sitting there, are you like, seeing shit?

• 31:55Tim Ferriss?

  It feels like someone flicking the side of your head. Your head. There are no visuals or anything, but you feel like someone's flicking the side of your head and each day you feel like you ran a mental ultra marathon. Like if you were cramming for the LSATs every day for 15 hours straight, that is the degree of mental exhaustion. It's very tiring.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Do you find that it's improved your cognitive tasks? Like, are you like able to?

• 32:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Like, is there any performance enhancing benefits to this as well?

• 32:20Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I do think TMS is going to be used for performance enhancement. I think it could be used for sports enhancement in many things. So I do think, especially in the world of anti-doping and so on, that athletes are going to start to use TMS pre-competition for enhancing, who knows, visual acuity, reaction speed. That's going to happen for sure. Because you can already use TMS to change trait hypnotizability. Like, if you want to make people more susceptible to being hypnotized, you can use this. It's going to get super wild really quickly. I will say that one thing I have noticed on the plus or negative side, depending on how you look at it, is that I've been so much less productive in the last few months.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  You seem really chill right now.

• 33:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, super chill. Here's what I would say. I wouldn't trade the productivity for my current sense of calmness. And I was chatting with a therapist about this and they said, "Well, I think for a lot of people, that anxiety is used as a fuel to work, to basically run away from things, not run towards things." And I was like, "Yeah, I could see that. That doesn't seem shocking to me." So, you know, a question I've tried to ask myself with a lot of different projects is, "Am I running away from something or am I running towards something?" That seems a very important distinction to make. And also, another reason not to DIY this is, in a lot of cases, you're, let's just say in the case of anxiety, so you have too much fight or flight, or freeze, let's just say.

• 33:45Tim Ferriss?

  So you want to dampen that a little bit so you can move around without being a head case. Okay, great. You still need some of that fight or flight in your life, so you can over-dampen that. Or maybe you want to increase your parasympathetic response. This is going to be very personal. I didn't really think I would talk about this publicly. But so there's a shorthand in medical school, they say point and shoot. In other words, parasympathetic to get in directions sympathetic to orgasm. Both of those are really important. So after I got my sympathetic smashed, I couldn't orgasm for like two weeks and I was freaking the fuck out. I was like, did I just completely screw up my hardwiring? Like, I'm never going to orgasm again. That seems like a high tax to pay. Uh, fuck, you know?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Was the engine there?

• 34:31Tim Ferriss?

  It's a scarce, scary moment.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Like you, you didn't have a problem with the thing?

• 34:35Tim Ferriss?

  The point, no.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  No, okay. It was just the finish.

• 34:39Tim Ferriss?

  The shoot, that was the problem, yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Jesus, man.

• 34:41Tim Ferriss?

  So like that could freak you out, or let's say like-

• 34:43Speaker 02

  This is classic Tim Ferriss, like early, like trying the craziest shit.

• 34:47Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I'm taking the bullets so that people don't necessarily have to. But these are all reasons why you don't want to buy a kit on Amazon and just start zapping your brain while you're watching Netflix.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, all right. Unless you're fast and you need to slow down.

• 35:00Tim Ferriss?

  You know, if, if somebody else wants to run that N1, like knock yourself out, but I'm not going to do that. Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  All right.

• 35:07Tim Ferriss?

  Anyway, moving on.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  All right, that's, so last question and then we can, we can move on. Is there a website or anything where, where you went? Like, where did you go if someone's listening to this and they're like, I want to go where Tim went?

• 35:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I, I mean, this is where I would like to have, and this is not for any reason other than I'm going to defer on that just because I want to have some more experience. Also, I want to do a follow-up. I want to see what the durability looks like before I start recommending outfits. So I will do that. I'll have more to say about this. But for people who want to do a deep dive, Dr. Nolan Williams and the podcast that I did with him touches a lot of this. I will also say just a quick note, which is there are some theories around, say, depression, which are not chemically focused. So instead of like, oh, serotonin imbalance, this imbalance, which is a little antiquated in a bunch of- Senses, it's not that it isn't a non-variable,

• 36:01Tim Ferriss?

  but it doesn't seem to be the primary determinant. It could be that different structures in the brain are firing out of sequence. And you can use the TMS to correct that sequence. So instead of firing like BAC, it's like, oh, well, let's slightly tweak that system. So it's firing in what we see in normal healthy is which is ABC. Pretty interesting. Yeah. To be able to basically just reset the tripwire sequence. Something I think we'll be hearing a lot more about in the next handful of years. And it is better tolerated than most medications. Like from a risk profile perspective, for most people, in very rare cases, it can trigger seizures.

• 36:39Tim Ferriss?

  Like there are adverse side effect potentials, but for the vast majority, very well tolerated. So I'm, I'm excited about it because for instance, psychedelic assisted therapy is contraindicated for lots of people. There are many people who should not take this or engage in, in that type of therapy. Too many risks involved. People with say borderline personality disorder with family history of schizophrenia, et cetera. But they wouldn't necessarily be automatically excluded from doing something like accelerated TMS. So that's exciting to me.

• 37:14Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? AG1 is a science driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your

• 37:58Tim Ferriss?

  first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. Go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drink AG1, the number one, drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  All right, we've got 22 minutes left.

• 38:20Tim Ferriss?

  What you got?

• 38:21Speaker 02

  They're cutting us off. So, one of the things that dawned on me at South by Southwest, and I'm curious to get a, we'll do a poll at some point here, but one of the things that's really challenging, at least for me personally, is like when we go to these events, or you go to events and gathering, social gatherings, I'm okay on stage, I'm okay interviewing folks, but I actually don't like social events. I get a little anxiety around them.

• 38:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  And it's largely because it's like-

• 38:46Tim Ferriss?

  Thank God you had the tequila beforehand.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Exactly. The social lubricant does help, but it's largely because it's a lot of kind of like small talk, you know, like what do you do for a living, like this and that, right?

• 38:56Tim Ferriss?

  Totally.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  I had this fantastic guest, Charles Duhigg, recently on the podcast just a couple days ago.

• 39:02Tim Ferriss?

  Great author.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, fantastic, called Super Connectors. How many people like have a hard time at events? Like, raise, raise of hands, curiosity. A lot of people. It's this challenging thing. And so, those icebreakers and all that shit, I don't know what to say. And this author was fantastic. So, Super Connectors is the book that I just am in the process of reading right now. And it's really about a couple of things, like, one, how can you get to a deep conversation quickly? And then, how to build trust with the person you're having a conversation with? And that can be used for relationships, like first dates. It can be used for eventually, you know, working, business partnerships. How is trust actually formed in terms of

• 39:46Speaker 02

  social interactions? And a lot of it comes down to the questions that you ask, and actually the follow-up questions that you ask, and then the reciting of what the person said to make them know that you actually heard what they were saying. And so, it's just a fascinating, fun topic. And I was just curious, like, is that something that you've ever had issues with, or have you ever studied how to create these like lasting, long bonded kind of like connections with other humans?

• 40:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I think about it all the time.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  You really?

• 40:16Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, for sure. And I'm also, I can pretend to be the extrovert and play the extrovert on stage like this, where I'm safely at a distance talking to one person in front of a lot of people. But I am very introverted. You've seen this.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:29Tim Ferriss?

  It's like, if I'm at a big group dinner, I'll take 20 bathroom breaks. And it's not because my prostate is old, it's because I need to do Lamaze breathing in the bathroom, be like, "Okay, I'm okay."

• 40:41Tim Ferriss?

  You know, smile and I can get back out there. So I've thought about this a lot because what I've found also is that if you study this type of thing, it makes you more comfortable and less overwhelmed in these circumstances.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:56Tim Ferriss?

  So it is not only helping the person or making the person across from you feel more comfortable. In my case, it helps me feel a lot more comfortable. So what have you learned from this book? Are there any particular?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things.

• 41:07Tim Ferriss?

  Questions, follow up questions?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:09Tim Ferriss?

  If you were a breakfast cereal, what would you be?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Not that question, but that was a good first podcast question. The one thing that you do is you write down five things that you could talk about when you're at this event or questions that you might want to ask. And there was this research study that was done that people that wrote down these questions and they put them in their pocket. They never used the questions, but it put them at ease, knowing that they had the backups in their pocket. And then it led to more natural conversation. And then the second thing is just really going in and being naturally curious about the person and asking like, if you were saying, hey, I just tried this new, you know, brain stimulation technique, it'd be like, oh, that sounds really fun. Like, that's a dead end to that, right? You would say like, well, I've read a little bit about this, but like, can you tell me

• 41:56Speaker 02

  more about how it's actually helped you? And like, you know, you, it's

• 42:00Tim Ferriss?

  Like what you just did.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. I was, I was actually

• 42:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I feel very at ease with you.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Not gonna go anywhere I could go there. But it is one thing where there's like these little tactics, but the interesting thing is you're not faking it. Cause I, the first thing I asked him, I was like, well, that feels like you're kind of faking it. You're just kind of like, oh, I've got these tactics and I'm going to go use these tactics. And he goes, no, once you start using these, you build a muscle, you get comfort, and then it naturally just happens to where you can walk into a social setting and you'll have that muscle and the comfort is there, the anxiety is gone. And it flips it from something that is like, should I go to this event or not? To like, I can actually thrive at this event. Cause for me, you walk out of an event and I'm like, oh my God, I just ran a marathon, you know? Like you feel

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Emotionally drained and it turns it into something that is actually, you probably have a friend where they walk out of events and you're like, like Gary Vaynerchuk, like, how the fuck does he do what he does? Like, the dude can't, like, he's like an heroin.

• 43:01Tim Ferriss?

  He's got different batteries, different batteries, yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  He's got different batteries.

• 43:04Tim Ferriss?

  Different batteries, yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like, you, you watch someone like that and you're like, how do you feed off of that versus getting drained from it? And, and it's, there's a lot of tactics there. So anyway, I just want to throw it as, as a fun book to, to tune into and it was, it was a really fun podcast that we did.

• 43:18Tim Ferriss?

  This is a side note, which is related to something you said about having the backup topics and then never using them.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:25Tim Ferriss?

  A friend of mine, Neil Strauss, I've known forever, very funny, skilled author. He was also a journalist for a long time and interviewed dozens of the top celebrities and politicians and so on of the era. And he would do tons of, tons of prep. He would have all these questions written out on a piece of paper. He'd fold it up, put it in his pocket, never look at it for the interview.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:49Tim Ferriss?

  And it was just to have that confidence and comfort.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Well, if you hit a dead end, you've got something to fall back on, right?

• 43:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And I would also say, quite apart from that, part of how I have resolved for myself, some of the social anxiety is just assume that anyone you meet, like, everyone knows everyone, in the sense that if you go to a party with 30 people and you talk to one person for the whole night, that is not a waste of time. Even if you misfire, over time, having that habit, it's a very small world.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Oh, here's a good one. Speaking of talking to one person, have you ever found yourself in a conversation where you're like, I gotta get out of this conversation, right?

• 44:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  You want to move on to the next person?

• 44:28Tim Ferriss?

  Abort, abort.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  This is a really good hack, actually. He told me, he said-

• 44:32Tim Ferriss?

  You want to do some heroin? And they're like, what?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. You offer them heroin, they're like, I'm gonna go that way. No, what you do, this is a brilliant one. It was one of my favorite ones that he dropped on my podcast at kevinrose.com. What he did is he said that what you can do is, what you want to do is you want to go in there and you want to say, hey, listen, I have some other people here that I need to go have a conversation with, but I want to ask you one more thing about what you were just saying. Because then it's not that I'm not interested in what you were saying. It's, you're not just, you're dismissing yourself. You're saying, I'm going to do this thing, but tell me a little bit more about what was so interesting about you.

• 45:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's a good-

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Which is a really fascinating little hack.

• 45:15Tim Ferriss?

  That's a good softening. Instead of like, hey, my cat's on fire, I'm so sorry.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. Yeah.

• 45:20Tim Ferriss?

  I want to give people a little gooey snack, which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or point and shoot. This is if people want to hear something that 99% of you will hate, I give it to you anyway. This was, I'll give credit to S. I'm not going to mention her full name, but there's a band called Ginger, J I N J E R. This is a Ukrainian metalcore band. It is super hardcore. The range is impressive with the vocalists involved. It's very hardcore. But this is introduced to me and I've been listening to it. Pisces. I'd start with that track. And so if you want something really strange to listen to, you're welcome.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  This is the random show.

• 46:03Tim Ferriss?

  It's the random show. Got to live up to the name.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Okay, let me, I'm gonna give you one then. Sohen, S O H N.

• 46:08Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, yes.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  The artist Sohen.

• 46:09Tim Ferriss?

  You've been texting me nonstop about Sohen.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Sohen is amazing. Underrated. I mean, he's got some tracks that have like millions of views, but like underrated, like amazing music just to chill out to. So S O H N.

• 46:19Tim Ferriss?

  S O H N. Also the name of a great finance conference. Unrelated. All right. Okay. Android slash Gemini. I want to hear about this.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll hit one real quick. You hit one real quick and then we're gonna, we're coming up on time, but.

• 46:31Tim Ferriss?

  We have 14 minutes.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true. Every six months I try to move to Android and I fail and it sucks.

• 46:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  I really want to do it and I get the phone and I'm like, okay, I'm excited. This is the first time where I installed the beta for Gemini and Gemini is their AI stuff, right? Their chat GPT competitor. Gemini sucked like six months ago and I'm not like three months ago was horrible. It's gotten a lot better. No doubt. I mean, it's Google, right? You're gonna throw some serious resources at this and figure out this problem. They did this update where you're, you can actually integrate it into and replace the assistant on your phone now. Much in the way that you can assign to the new Apple iPhone, you can take this new button that's in the corner, the action button and assign it to chat GPT.

• 47:15Tim Ferriss?

  I saw him using this in the green.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  We had a disagreement about.

• 47:18Tim Ferriss?

  I was very impressed.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Milligrams and how coffee, caffeine.

• 47:21Tim Ferriss?

  There were a few hallucinations, but it was pretty convincing up until the punchline.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  But the, but the crazy thing is that for the first time I, I realized that like, I can't move to Android full time because of the freaking bubbles, the green bubbles. But aside from that, I will say that it was providing me insights that were actionable, relevant, and unexpected, which I thought was just fascinating. Like, I'll give an example. I was supposed to head to the airport to catch a flight to come out here and, you know, with my family, with my kids, I want to say goodbye to my girls. Get into LAX from my house, about an hour-ish and change, you never know, right? And I got a notification. It was like, hey, we saw on your calendar, the flight, we know that with the time you have to leave, this is your check-in, this is your carousel, and you actually have an extra 30 minutes. And I was like, holy shit. That was like

• 48:09Speaker 02

  all proactive, right? And, you know, you ask Siri something, you're like, hey, how many points did Steph Curry score last night? And like-

• 48:17Tim Ferriss?

  I'm sorry, I didn't get that.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, here's your results from the web. And you're like, gee, thanks. Like, okay, I could have Googled that, Siri. But like, Gemini now is giving you all that shit in real time.

• 48:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's very, it's very-

• 48:30Speaker 02

  And I'm like, it's on. Like, Apple has to really go hard, as obviously they are, and they just haven't announced it yet. But it's getting pretty awesome. I'm excited for the future of what this is gonna bring.

• 48:41Tim Ferriss?

  Also, translation and simultaneous translation of our conversation on Android is incredibly impressive.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:48Tim Ferriss?

  And it's gonna get better.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  So, this is a true story. Right now, yesterday, I saw my podcast fully translated into Spanish and Japanese, in my voice and in my guest's voice. And then I have another company that is doing the lips perfectly. And so now they-

• 49:08Tim Ferriss?

  You have very supple lips.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're very plump. I get the injections. They will be, I don't. That'll just be like pulled out and put on Twitter. They will be released, actually, in all these other languages. And I'm imagining you're gonna be doing that at some point soon.

• 49:21Tim Ferriss?

  Sure. Yeah, yeah. It's surprisingly straightforward.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  We'll all be hitting a global audience in like, every product and everything we do in the next two to three years.

• 49:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, the sheer volume of content production is gonna be so outrageous that I think there are gonna be a number of- Secondary and tertiary effects, including the half-life of fame is gonna go down dramatically. There's not going to be another Oprah who has command of half of a country with a show like that. And the decay rate's gonna be really fast, which I'm looking forward to personally, because

• 49:55Speaker 02

  I don't know, there's some

• 49:56Tim Ferriss?

  It's like, public thing gets a little tiring.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  What do you think about Jake Paul and Tyson?

• 50:00Tim Ferriss?

  I've read some, God, okay, so if we're gonna, so Tyson's 57 years old. He's in incredibly good shape.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:10Tim Ferriss?

  Given everything.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Did you watch those clips of him, like punching, he's still got some serious

• 50:15Tim Ferriss?

  In the tight turquoise shorts?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I hope he wears those shorts when he fights. So yes, I, look, I don't wanna fight Tyson. I have heard rumors they're going to require headgear and 18-ounce gloves.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  That's bullshit. They can't do that.

• 50:26Tim Ferriss?

  That gives too much advantage to the young buck with more endurance. I'd say if you're gonna fight, make it a real boxing match.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  If someone said, Tim, you don't ever have to podcast again, $200 million, step in with Tyson.

• 50:39Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, absolutely not.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Dude, you wouldn't take two rounds.

• 50:43Tim Ferriss?

  You take one punch from a professional fighter and the TBI, you're not gonna be able to count afterwards.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Well, you got your magnets and shit, you'll be fine.

• 50:55Tim Ferriss?

  Got my magnets. Yeah, no, I need no more head trauma in my life.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  I think Tyson's gonna kick his ass.

• 51:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, my

• 51:05Speaker 02

  I, you know, I respect the guy, because he went from YouTuber to like legit fighter, like no doubt.

• 51:10Tim Ferriss?

  He would make a very good

• 51:11Speaker 02

  He's a serious fighter.

• 51:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, he's a serious fighter. I would say if it is to be a credible fight, no headgear and regulation-sized boxing gloves. Having spent some time doing this kinda stuff.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:24Tim Ferriss?

  If you make them like the giant sumo costume.

• 51:29Tim Ferriss?

  Protective outfits.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  No one wants to watch that, though. There can't be headgear.

• 51:33Tim Ferriss?

  People will watch it, but if you have all those protective mechanisms in place, it discounts the power and it rewards the speed and endurance and that's going to favor a younger fighter.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Tyson's not going to wear headgear, but he is?

• 51:47Tim Ferriss?

  I'm saying just the rumors I've heard is that both of them will wear both, but that negates the advantage that Tyson has and should have in such a fight.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:57Tim Ferriss?

  My opinion.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:59Tim Ferriss?

  So make it real. If you're going to do it, make it a real fight. So let's see, let's take a look at.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  I wish we could do some audience questions, but we didn't set that up.

• 52:07Tim Ferriss?

  We didn't set it up ahead of time. So I'll hear you. I got one we should touch on since we talked about point and shoot. Do you want to talk about Kevin's deflated balls? That's my line item here.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we can. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate that. So, well, he, yeah. How do we even go into this?

• 52:28Speaker 02

  So one of the things that I find fascinating is these GLP-1 inhibitors that they're going around, the Ozempic and the.

• 52:34Tim Ferriss?

  Majaro.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Majaro.

• 52:36Tim Ferriss?

  Et cetera.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Because it's going to change everything. They're talking about, honestly, with as much weight loss that it's going to happen over the next decade, you know, the cost of flights will go down because there'll be less weight to actually, these are where they're going with this. It's insane.

• 52:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, a lot of the major retailers budgeting for decreased snack consumption.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Yes, it's crazy. So one of the things that people don't know about this is that these started off not as weight loss drugs. I mean, people probably know this, but as type 2 diabetes drugs. And so they're primarily used for glucose control. And one of the things that I've always had an issue with, I went to Atiya a decade ago and he tested.

• 53:13Tim Ferriss?

  Peter Atiya, also a great podcast.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, fantastic. Atiya is great. The Drive podcast is fantastic. He maybe do something called a glucose tolerance test. You drink a big sugary drink and you watch how quickly your body can dispose of the glucose. Unfortunately, mine's really shitty. It takes me a long time to get the glucose out. And so these drugs were always interesting to me from that point of view. Like, how can I have better glucose control? Largely because my dad died of a heart attack, my grandfather died. Side of a stroke, like cardiovascular disease is rampant on my father's side. And so there's a 20, this is like data we asked Chad GPT earlier. There's real data that you can go on their website. There's a 20% reduction in cardiovascular events for people that are on these drugs.

• 53:54Tim Ferriss?

  Even accounting for the weight.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Even even taking into account and controlling for the weight loss. And so I tried it a long time ago with Tia, just because I was curious. This was like, you know, six years ago. And you definitely lose your beer gut, which is great. Drew, I see in the audience. We like our beer and our drinks. Drew's awesome. It does help on that front in the vanity front, but like for me, I would wear a Dexcom and my, my glucose was just like stable as hell, which was amazing. And I like the cardio protective benefits of it. I didn't want to stay on it because you lose muscle mass.

• 54:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that was gonna be the question.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Atiya started talking about this and saying, hey, I don't put people on this because you lose muscle mass. So what do you have to do? You have to go and, and do testosterone.

• 54:37Tim Ferriss?

  Just to be clear, you lose muscle mass because you're not eating. So in a lot of cases, people are not consuming enough protein, nor calories.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Right. Exactly. So you're not getting enough protein. So you lose muscle mass. And so you can do testosterone replacement therapy to counter it. It's a whole mess, but if you do testo, you've done testosterone replacement therapy.

• 54:56Tim Ferriss?

  Did it post-surgery. Yeah, I did. The whole cocktail.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  You've never had a little juice on the side?

• 55:01Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  You hang out with Arnold, dude. You never had a little?

• 55:04Tim Ferriss?

  It's not like we're having omelets and steroids for breakfast. No. Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I think that post-surgery for certain instances and so on, I think it's indicated. I think people need to be aware of the risks that they're taking and post-cycle therapy and various things that they need to take into account.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but well, if you do it also, you lose a lot of things down there, like your balls shrink.

• 55:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, they turn into raisinettes, just as a side note.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Raisinettes, yeah. So anyway, it's a balance. This longevity thing is a really tricky thing. And the thing for me is like, I've never wanted to be someone that like, I don't believe in like living forever. I don't want to do that. I just want to see my kids grow up. I'm an older dad. At the end, if I die at 75 or 80, like.

• 55:50Tim Ferriss?

  I still got all the.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 55:51Tim Ferriss?

  I said, you're an older dad.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  I am an older dad.

• 55:53Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I know. I have some ketchup to.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, speaking of which, you're, you're, no, you wanted to cover it, son.

• 55:59Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  You're single.

• 56:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Well, I actually hear some, there's surprisingly some ladies in the audience, which is, uh, which is amazing. Meet Tim Pierce on the sign, he is signing, uh, books and, no, um, how's that going, dude? What's it like now these days?

• 56:18Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, look, anyone here who's participating in modern dating, I think, would agree that it's pretty fucking bizarre. So, look, there's some amazing people out there. It is also, I think, depending on your standards, one of my friends, I won't name him, but he was like, "Oh, you and your standards."

• 56:34Tim Ferriss?

  But if you have reasonable standards, it is like finding a needle in a haystack because you're starting from all the apps or all the humans in the world. So I think you need to have some pretty tight criteria if you're gonna make that remotely tackleable. Like, it's, like, dating on one hand is very fun, and on the other hand, it's incredibly exhausting.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  How low do you go, just out of curiosity?

• 56:54Tim Ferriss?

  How low do I go?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:56Tim Ferriss?

  What are you talking about?

• 56:57Speaker 02

  I mean, like...

• 57:00Speaker 02

  I get how that could be taken in a few different ways, but like...

• 57:03Tim Ferriss?

  Slow is necessary.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Let's just say, let's...

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Somebody's a fan. You got one taker, you got one taker later. That was quite the scream. Um, so...

• 57:16Tim Ferriss?

  Not against it, I'm not upset.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm, like, at your age, are you, are you, are you...

• 57:25Speaker 02

  No, are you, are you going, what is it, 27, 30, 32?

• 57:29Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, like, I would say, oh, God, all right, so, I would say 28 plus is what I'm looking for. Like, I want somebody who has a reasonably formed identity and has demonstrated the ability to handle hard things in life, and so on and so forth. If somebody is still really on the path to establishing in their own minds who they are, I think there's a lot of risk in that, right? Because people develop in different directions, and it's good to see someone who's reached some point of confidence in themselves, and they have a degree of self-awareness in who they are, what they like, what they don't like.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:03Tim Ferriss?

  That takes time.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  I will say one thing like

• 58:06Tim Ferriss?

  But it could also be quite a bit above that. I'm not married to that, but I would say the lower

• 58:11Speaker 02

  But you also want kids.

• 58:13Tim Ferriss?

  Also want kids. So that's a whole hot third rail that I'm not sure you want to touch. It gets people very upset. But yeah, like there are some biological realities for sure.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  One of the things I will say that I do really respect about you is like, how did the chance do as have you to bump into a bunch of celebrities over our time in just mingling with folks? And when you get to a certain state of notoriety, it's easier to date. And one of the things that you've always said to me is like, you want someone that is like challenging you intellectually. And you've always had these really high standards in all the right ways.

• 58:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. It's not necessarily like a canvassing Mensa for my next chess partner type of situation. I feel like I don't want to. The last thing I want is to date me with long hair. And that's just like

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's scary.

• 58:59Tim Ferriss?

  Let me jump off a building now and like end it before it gets bad. But what I am looking for is someone I can admire. Like, there should be a mutual admiration. And the reasons for that can be many, right? But it's like somebody that impresses you that you admire, which is very different from respecting, right? Like respecting can have a negative connotation or an obligation feel to it. Whereas admiration, like you can't force that.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:25Tim Ferriss?

  You can't do that because other people demand it. It's a very organic thing. So I'm certainly looking for that. I'd say we're gonna get yelled at, but we can push a little bit. No, we can push a little bit. You guys okay with another five minutes?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  All right.

• 59:39Tim Ferriss?

  All right, we'll go a little bit longer. To shift gears just a little bit, just because you mentioned something that has been on my mind a lot, if this might be helpful to anyone. Lifespan, life extension. This is in the water. A lot of people are talking about it. A lot of people are obsessing over it. And a lot of folks are mostly like tech males, if I'm being frank, but a lot of people are interested in not dying. So there is that. But there is a lot of bandwidth, a lot of money being allocated to thinking about life extension. And I would recommend, we mentioned Peter Tia earlier, Outlive, his book talks a lot about health span, not just lifespan. Take a look at that.

• 1:00:19Tim Ferriss?

  But on a very different level, I've been thinking a lot about experiential lifespan. So I think most people in this audience have probably experienced varying degrees of time dilation, where maybe you go on an extended hike, maybe you take a few days to do X, Y, and Z. Maybe it was during COVID because of everything that was changing minute to minute, where you have, for periods of time, an increased frame rate. It's like your normal frame rate, I'm making this up, it's like 24 frames per second, but then you go to like 1,000 frames per second. And an hour, or a day, or a week can feel like months. So I've been thinking a lot about how you can engineer that and schedule that in your life.

• 1:01:01Tim Ferriss?

  And if you say, schedule three or four things that you know produce this time dilation for you, if that, say, just based on the frame rate, right, kind of expands your year experientially to be an additional three months, even if you don't extend your max lifespan, you've extended your max experiential lifespan really significantly.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  So what's been your strategy for that?

• 1:01:27Tim Ferriss?

  Because there are a lot of miserable fucks who want to live forever. I mean, let's be honest, I hate to say it, but it's just like, oh, wow, you just want to make this painful journey as long as possible.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:36Tim Ferriss?

  That's one way to go about it. How do I want?

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  So what are your strategies for that? What is your like, we all agree, like, as you get older, like, it seems like time is just compressing and going faster and faster.

• 1:01:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, there are a few things, and there's a great article from Johns Hopkins University Magazine called Aw Struck, which I actually put on my blog because it resonated with me so clearly. I recommend people check that out because I do think awe, and there are assessments, of course, for ranking your experience of awe in different environments, but it's worth thinking about because I do think it correlates to this time dilation. There are a few things that hop to mind. For me, extended time off the grid.

• 1:02:18Tim Ferriss?

  In say mountainous environments seem to produce that. Being in seasonal environments as opposed to in one place, say, your experience in an equatorial place or someplace like Costa Rica, for instance, for a lot of people is seems much faster. Time passes faster than it does in a place with seasons. As one example. Another would be the last few months. I was in the mountains and I was skiing for half of each day. And you're changing locations a lot. And people have probably experienced this where if you're at South by Southwest and you change locations, you go to 10 different places in one day. Even if that's just eight hours, it feels longer than if you're sitting at your kitchen

• 1:03:02Tim Ferriss?

  table pecking away at email for that equivalent period of time. The experience of time is different. So changing locations, that's something you can very easily plan into your life. There are certain states, of course. I mean, I'm not going to recommend this. It is, like I mentioned, contraindicated for a lot of people, but certain psychedelic experiences certainly can produce this. But it's not exclusive to that at all. If you've been, for instance, places that have a pervasive feeling of vastness, for instance, Montana, you go there or Alaska. It just feels bigger, like the sky and everything seems vaster. And that has an effect on your sensory experience that changes, I think, for me at least, my perception of time.

• 1:03:48Tim Ferriss?

  Lots of nonverbal stuff, interacting with animals. It's a whole separate conversation. I'm thinking of Ace Ventura Pet Detective. It's like the birds landing on his arms. Yeah, my experience with the wolves, certainly. So there are ways that you can engineer this, but I think that the most practical way to go about it is just to look back at the last two years, identify where you experienced these peak moments of awe, and try to figure out what the characteristics are, the shared characteristics. I think this is a major unlock because frankly, humans have been trying to figure out the code of immortality and the fountain of youth forever. It hasn't worked yet. I hate to be the one to deliver the news. And I'm, I don't think we're going to figure it out in the next 50 years. Maybe people will say that's pessimistic.

• 1:04:33Tim Ferriss?

  I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised when it works than to bank on it and have it not work. So in the meantime, there are some really straightforward things you can do.

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Let me throw out one last little hack before we go that is related to this. Have you had Sunil Gupta on your show yet?

• 1:04:50Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  He's, he's awesome. He's fantastic, just human. And he wrote this book recently. It's about the wisdom of Dharma and ancient techniques, um, tying back to India and how we can incorporate them into modern life. And one of the things that he did some research on was these people that just have this energy that is his everyday. They just keep going. They just have this unbound energy. And one of the people that is like this is Martha Stewart in her eighties. So people say that Martha Stewart now in her eighties has more energy than she did when she was younger. And they went back and they asked her, you know, well, what's the secret here? How'd you do this? And it's breaks in the day.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  And it's like, don't do back to back meetings, but taking 10 minutes to get outside, to go for that walk for the day, to break it up and actually you will de-stress yourself. And also the day will seem fuller and longer. But the interesting hack was that if you ever say, hey, we're going to do a meeting, Tim and I, we're going to jump on a call. And you know what? I'm going to end 10 minutes early. It's going to be from one to 1:50 instead of from one to two. It never ends that way, right? You always go to two o'clock. What he does is he starts his meetings 10 minutes late. So the meeting starts at 10 minutes after the hour.

• 1:06:06Tim Ferriss?

  That's smart.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Always gets that break. I thought it was brilliant and it's a, it's another fantastic book to read.

• 1:06:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So to underscore that, I would say, if you feel rushed, your time is going to feel compressed. Right? Seems kind of self-evident, but it's taken me a lifetime to figure this out. So there are a bunch of things you can do, right? Like, that's part of the reason, honestly, I don't think there's any magic to say transcendental meditation, but taking 20 minutes as a break twice a day.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  I do the way every day.

• 1:06:35Tim Ferriss?

  And what does that force you to do? It forces you to realize that if I stop for 20 minutes twice a day, my world does not completely fall apart. And you end up feeling less rushed. And I think it's that cumulative enforced realization, as much as the mantra and all this other stuff, that is so helpful for folks. So it's helpful for me, at the very least. Anything else? Like, we should probably vacate.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's it. Uh, we should plug the way, though, our friend Henry's meditation app. That's, it's a great 10 minutes a day to spend. Henry's got a great meditation app that...

• 1:07:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Henry is super legit. He's been on my podcast twice. He's been on your podcast. Henry Shukman, S-H-U-K-M-A-N.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Tim Ferriss?

  Also has some great writing.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Good way to take 10 minutes and have a break.

• 1:07:16Tim Ferriss?

  For sure. I guess that's it.

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you, everyone.

• 1:07:19Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, everybody. Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between 1 and 1/2 and 2 million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter, called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half-page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered, or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

• 1:08:04Tim Ferriss?

  And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseam. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why?

• 1:08:48Tim Ferriss?

  Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. The Pod Cover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment, providing the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. With the Pod Cover's dual-zone temperature control, you and your partner can set your sides of the bed to as cool as 55 degrees or as hot as 110 degrees. I think generally in my experience, my partners prefer the high side and I like to sleep very, very cool. So stop fighting, this helps. Based on your biometrics, environment and sleep stages, the Pod Cover makes temperature adjustments throughout the night that limit wake-ups and increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the Pod Cover sensors also track

• 1:09:33Tim Ferriss?

  your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. If you have a partner, great, you can split the zones and you can sleep at your own ideal temperatures. It's easy. So go to eightsleep.com/tim, spelled out, eightsleep.com/tim and save $200 on the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia. This episode is brought to you by Nordic Naturals, the number one selling fish oil and algae oil brand in the US. And I actually have used both of those, their fish oil and algae oil, for more than a year now. I alternate back and forth. It is one of the few supplements that I always travel with.

• 1:10:15Tim Ferriss?

  Trusted by doctors and healthcare professionals since 1995, Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega and Algae Omega provide foundational support for heart and brain health, immune system function and more. More than 80% of Americans, and probably many of you listening outside of the US, do not get enough omega-3 fats from their diet. That is a problem because the body cannot produce omega-3s. We cannot produce- Reduce that endogenously, meaning in our bodies ourselves, we need to get it from diet is an important nutrient for cell structure and function. Nordic Naturals solves that problem with their Ultimate Omega Fish Oil Formula, made exclusively from 100% wild-caught fish, and their 100% vegan algae omega made from microalgae,

• 1:10:59Tim Ferriss?

  the original source of marine omega-3s. In other words, if you're taking fish oil, what do they eat and what does that eat ultimately traces back to microalgae. Their Ultimate Omega Fish Oils are offered in soft gels, liquid, and zero sugar gummies. I usually go for the soft gels, easy to travel with. I've been taking their Ultimate Omega for more than a year now, as I mentioned, and I love it because there's no fishy aftertaste, no GI upset. I've experienced nothing but smooth sailing with Nordic Naturals, whereas I've had some issues with other type of supplementation in the past. It's just made me a grumpy Gus and really upset my guts. So, none of those issues so far in my trial run for a year plus of using Nordic Naturals. Nordic Naturals are Friend of the Sea certified and sustainably made in a zero-waste facility,

• 1:11:44Tim Ferriss?

  partially powered by biofuel. They're also non-GMO and they are third-party tested, meeting or surpassing the strictest international standards for purity and freshness. To want proof, you can visit their website, check it out, where they can provide certificates of analysis for every one of their products. So, learn more. If you've been wondering what type of omega-3 you should take, which ones are properly vetted and tested and have quality assured, check out Nordic Naturals. Go to Nordic.com/Tim and discover why Nordic Naturals is the number one selling omega-3 brand in the US. And while you're there, use promo code TIM for 20% off of your order. That's Nordic, N-O-R-D-I-C, dot com slash Tim and code TIM for 20% off.