#289 Brunello Cucinelli

What I learned from reading The Dream of Solomeo: My Life and the Idea of Humanistic Capitalism by Brunello Cucinelli. ---- This episode is brought to you by: Tiny: Tiny is the easiest way to sell your business. Quick and straightforward exits for Founders. ---- Follow one of my favorite podcasts Invest Like The Best and listen to episode 293 David Senra Passion and Pain ! [4:00] I am reminded of Machiavelli: during his exile, he too spent his afternoons playing board games and drinking wine, while at night, in the austere silence of his studio, he engaged in solitary, literary conversations with the ancient scholars. [6:00] The true meaning of my life seems to be a spontaneous drive and energy. [7:00] I am driven by an immense desire: that my life, when it reaches its end, will not have been useless. [7:00] Brunello Cucinelli by Om Malik [8:00] God assigns to all of us a mission to fulfill. Our task is first to discover the nature of our summons, then to follow it. [11:00] We schedule time to think. Most people schedule themselves like a dentist. It's so easy to get so busy that you no longer have time to think- and you pay a huge price for that. —— All I Want To Know Is Where I'm Going To Die So I'll Never Go There: Buffett & Munger – A Study in Simplicity and Uncommon, Common Sense by Peter Bevelin. (Founders #286) [14:00] Try to be your son's teacher until he's ten years old; his father, until he's twenty; and his friend, for the rest of his life. [14:00] The problem is not getting rich, it's staying sane. —Charlie Munger [18:00] What an astonishing thing a book is. It's a flat object made from a tree with flexible parts on which are imprinted lots of funny dark squiggles. But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe somebody dead for thousands of years. Across the millennia, an author is speaking clearly and silently inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people who never knew each other, citizens of distant epochs. Books break the shackles of time. A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic. —Carl Sagan [23:00] Postponing the reward increases the appreciation, a fact that has been forgotten in the current culture of impatience. [29:00] I could see the humiliation in my father's eyes. His teary eyes were the source of inspiration for my life. [33:00] I have always been firmly convinced that in order to successfully stand out you need to focus on one single project representing the dream of your life. [36:00] A young man with no money and tons of enthusiasm. [41:00] Ralph Lauren: The Man Behind the Mystique by Jeffrey Trachtenberg. (Founders #288) [43:00] One thing I never did—which I’m really proud of—was to push any of my kids too hard. I knew I was a fairly overactive fellow, and I didn’t expect them to try to be just like me. — Sam Walton: Made In America by Sam Walton. (Founders #234) [48:00] Invention: A Life by James Dyson. (Founders #205) [49:00] The greatest minds can convey deep and complex thoughts with words that are understandable to everyone. [50:00] Enthusiastically build an extraordinary reality day after day. ---- Join my free email newsletter to get my top 10 highlights from every book ---- “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast ---- Founders Notes gives you the ability to tap into the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand. Use it to supplement the decisions you make in your work. Get access to Founders Notes here. ---- “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00David Senra?

  Last week, you and I talked about the fact that Ralph Lauren is not normal. Well, Brunello Cucinelli isn't either. And what they both have in common is the first business they start is the business that they work on for their entire lives. Ralph founded his business like 55 years ago. Brunello Cucinelli founded his business 45 years ago. They're both still working on it. A big part of being a founder, a big part of being an entrepreneur, is searching for your life's work, and that usually means starting more than one business. This is so common that the presenting sponsor for this episode, Tiny, has built a business buying other businesses. And what I like about Tiny is the fact that they make selling your business easier. I've talked to a ton of founders that have sold their business either to a private individual or to private equity, and they were astonished about how complicated the process was.

• 0:43David Senra?

  In the episode that you're about to listen to, you'll realize that Brunello Cucinelli found his edge by going in the opposite direction, doing the opposite of what everybody else is doing. That's exactly what Tiny is doing. They just make it easy to sell your business. You go to tiny.com, you say, hey, I want to sell my business. You'll get a response within 48 hours. There's an offer made within seven days, and then they close within a month. The founder skips the headache and gets a bag full of cash. So if you want to sell your business now or in the future, make sure you go to tiny.com. And one more thing before we jump into the episode, I wanted to make sure that you're following one of my favorite podcasts in whatever podcast player you're listening to this on right now. Search for Invest Like the Best. Make sure you're following that show. And do me a favor, listen to the episode that I did with Patrick. Patrick is the host of Invest Like the Best. It's episode 293. The episode is called Passion and Pain.

• 1:28David Senra?

  I feel the passion that Bruno Cucinelli has for life and the way he's building his company. I'm trying to apply my own work, and I think that discussion with Patrick on episode 293 of Invest Like the Best is the single best demonstration of the passion I'm trying to bring to my work. Towards the end of the night, the light of dawn spreads through the streets and brushes the houses of Salameo. I love walking in this light when nature and man are still asleep. In these hours, before the door of life opens up to the pressing matters of an industrialist business, to the unpredictable series of meetings with people who want to either give or take something, in these small hours, I enjoy thinking quietly, wandering through

• 2:12David Senra?

  this hamlet of the spirit, of my spirit, where every stone, every tree, every scented rose brings back a memory to my mind. A memory in which I recognize myself. The whole Salameo Valley is a place of memories and ideas. I value ideas because I consider them more important than the things that they produce. My walk ends in this magical place where memory, concentration, and an eternally young sense of wonder impact my soul like an energizing drive. I am over 60 years old and I know that nothing will give me back the same unbridled energy that as a boy made me run for mornings on end without ever getting tired.

• 2:57David Senra?

  At my age, I can look back at the past with sufficient detachment. This very same age also allows me to look ahead at the years before me, surely less than the ones behind me, with an attitude that prevents my dreams from turning into ash. When I look at the past, I see the facts of my life under a new light, from the inside rather than from the outside. So I glimpse new meanings in events that are long gone, like when I was 13 and I led the oxen while my dad plowed the fields. I tried to keep the animals on a straight course and I excelled at that task, which now becomes the symbol of a whole life led righteously.

• 3:38David Senra?

  I also think of the Italian café that had played such an important role in my youth. I see everything in a different light now. The card games, the cups of coffee at 2:00 in the morning, the endless discussions about women, politics, philosophy, and spirituality that lasted until dawn. I look back at things from that time and I recognize them for what they were, a personal university in life and human knowledge. That environment helped me develop a passion for books. I would always read when I was alone, especially philosophy. I'm reminded of Machiavelli during his exile. He too spent his afternoons playing board games and drinking wine,

• 4:22David Senra?

  while at night, in the austere silence of his studio, he engaged in solitary literary conversations with the ancient scholars. That is a great description of what reading is. Solitary literary conversations with the ancient scholars. Through these experiences, I have gained a knowledge that makes up for those long-gone pleasures and a desire that nourishes new ones. These include the love for Salameo. Only recently have I managed to fully comprehend the nature and the need for this love, which is one of the pillars of my life alongside my family and my business. I felt that Salomeo was bound to be my homeland, a place that would become the homeland of

• 5:03David Senra?

  my soul, the place where my soul had lived even before I was born. These experiences led me to devise the project of writing about my life and my dreams of a humanistic capitalism born and bred in Salomeo. Writing a memoir is quite common, therefore I pondered over this project for a long time. In the end, I chose to go for it because I think it has some special elements that hold some value. It is the life of a peasant who imagined and eventually fulfilled an entrepreneurial and humanistic dream that is well received, if not loved, in many parts of the world. During this effort, I have received a lot of help.

• 5:44David Senra?

  Because of the help and the pleasure they give me, books come first and foremost. I cannot do without books because they teach us how to listen to the voice of man, both others and our own. This is why they are irreplaceable for our soul. Knowing oneself is just as important and perhaps more difficult than knowing those that we live with. That might explain why, since I was a child, I have taken to jotting down the most meaningful things in my daily thoughts in a notebook and rereading them over time. One should not expect any coherence in these writings. In fact, the true meaning of my life seems to be a spontaneous drive and energy.

• 6:25David Senra?

  Amidst all of this is a man proceeding cautious and daring at the same time, paying attention to everything, yet always sure of his beliefs. That man is me, and I feel I am driven by an immense desire that my life, when it reaches its end, will not have been useless.

• 6:47David Senra?

  That is an excerpt from the book I'm going to talk to you about today, which is the autobiography of Brunello Cucinelli, "The Dream of Salomeo: My Life in the Idea of Humanistic Capitalism." This is going to be a very special podcast because the English translation of this book is almost impossible to find. I've had a hard time finding a copy that's cost less than $500. So I was very fortunate about two weeks ago, the founder of Mad Happy, Payman Raf, actually sent me this article written by Om Malik. He had, Om Malik had a two, I can think of a two-hour conversation with Brunello, and he condensed it down to an article that you could probably read in about, I'd say like 20 minutes. And so Payman had asked me, "Have you ever read anything on Brunello Cucinelli? If not, you would love him." And I was like, "It's amazing that you sent me this. I've been searching for an English copy of this very hard-to-find book."

• 7:32David Senra?

  And what happened next blew my mind. He said, "I have it, want me to send you my copy." So thanks to Payman for making this podcast happen. I'm going to quote heavily from the book and also from that article by Om Malik, which I will leave below. I actually read the article after I read the book, and it's the same man. The same person that is in the book shows up in that article. So with that, let's jump into the book. As you could tell from the introduction, Brunello is a real soulful dude. It's almost like he was trying to write like a poetic autobiography. And something that he referenced in the introduction, which is throughout, he repeats throughout the book, is he had this deep, he still does, he has this desire for solitude, and he spends a lot of time by himself just thinking. And so I'm actually going to quote from an excerpt that my friend Jeremy,

• 8:17David Senra?

  when he found out that I had the book, he actually sent me. And Brunello is talking about a turning point in his life that happened when he was a very young man. He was tempted to become a priest. He loved their monastic lifestyle, the fact that they spent a lot of time in solitude, a lot of time in like quiet prayer. And in this conversation, the guy he's talking to is Bellucci. Bellucci tells him, "That is not your path. Your path is not to follow my path. Your path is to be an entrepreneur." And this is what Bellucci told him. "God assigns to all of us, in proportion to the means of each one, a mission to fulfill." This is my favorite sentence in the entire paragraph. "Our task is first to discover the nature of our summons, then to follow it. My task is prayer and the study of the Holy Scriptures. Your task is to remain in this century, to live among the people and seek the good of your neighbor by using your qualities as an entrepreneur and as a man.

• 9:01David Senra?

  And this you must do without hesitation and with joy in your heart." And I wanted to start there because after you finish reading the book, I've also watched a bunch of videos on him. It is very clear that Brunello feels that he's a man on a mission. That he has a purpose higher than just himself and even his individual company. And a lot of that can be tied directly to how he grew up. So let's jump into his early life right now. "We lived in a house made of bricks and stone. It was not beautiful, but it's the house I still remember with the greatest affection. He was a poor farmer. He called himself at the introduction, a peasant." So he says, "The windows were small, and in the winter you had to shelter from the cold, and in the summer you had to shelter from the heat. On the ground floor, there were the barns with the cows. Thirteen people lived here. My family, my grandparents, and my uncles. Sharecroppers.

• 9:47David Senra?

  We were a small community." And this will tell you why he described himself as a peasant. "We did not have electricity, television, telephone, or water at home. The only concession to modernity was a small battery-powered radio. At that time and in those places, I began to understand the value of silence and the ritual simplicity of things. To learn the art of listening and to observe rather than judge." He is going to repeat the value of silence over and over and over again. "In my family, there was always a quiet silence. My room was small, and there I shared a bed with my two brothers." And so he talks about laying in bed at night, trying to fall asleep with his two brothers, who have not much to do. So he stares at the wood, like the wood beams on the ceiling in his room.

• 10:31David Senra?

  And he says, "I knew by heart every detail of the old oak beams on the ceiling. I stared at them while lying down, imagining fantastic figures and the textures of the knots and the grains." As I look back on everything that I learned from reading this book, I think one of the most profound ideas, I hopefully apply in my own life, is this idea. It's like, give your brain time to think. If you listen to episode 286, which I titled, "Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger Speaking Directly to You", Charlie says this over and over again, that him and Warren set a lot of time just to think. He actually makes fun of the people that have like these super busy calendars. Like, most people schedule themselves like a dentist. And he's like, "That's not what Warren and I do. We schedule a lot of time to think."

• 11:11David Senra?

  In the article, that when O. Malek is interviewing Brunello, he brings this up. He says that he could spend six hours in front of his fireplace, just looking at the flames and thinking. And he's got an amazing way to describe this. He says, "In the evening, I'm drunk with beautiful thoughts." And so, just like when we saw the very beginning of the book, Brunello is taking this early morning walk before everybody's awake. He's by himself. He's just thinking. He is adamant about the importance of having alone time just to think. And so, he talks about even though they didn't have a lot of money, they were peasants. Later on, when they moved to the city or they're looked down upon by the city people, he's like, it was a very, like, he had a great childhood. He was extremely close. He didn't know they were poor. He didn't feel he needed anything.

• 11:54David Senra?

  And he says, "I never saw my parents arguing." And then, as he's describing his childhood to the reader, "I just came across this fantastic line that he read somewhere else. He couldn't remember where he learned it, but he never forgot it." And he says, "A statement that I had read many years ago stayed with me. Try to be your son's teacher until he's 10 years old, his father until he's 20, and his friend for the rest of his life." And I think that's a great description of what the relationship that he has with his father, and I think the relationship that Brunello is trying to have with his own kids and grandkids, which we'll get to in a minute. But I saw a few interviews where his father was still alive in his 90s. So, you see pictures of Brunello with his father at 90 and 95. And so, we go back to his childhood. And then, when I got to this section, the note I left myself on this page was like, "This is the kind of father and grandfather that I want to be."

• 12:39David Senra?

  "When I dreamed something scary, I would go to my parents' bed. My mother used to say, 'Sleep now, you're with us, do not worry.' Once I became a father myself, and then recently a grandfather, I tried to do the same thing first with my daughters, and now with my beloved granddaughters. Sometimes my granddaughters sleep over at our home, and my wife asks me to watch them sleep. I often whisper to them in their sleep, warning them to lead a just life, to care about humanity, to safeguard the things they have received as a gift from creation. The little girls cannot hear me, but I like to believe that I'm speaking to their souls." And so, it's interesting there, the lesson that he's teaching his grandkids, even though they're asleep, he says, "I'm warning them to lead a just life."

• 13:24David Senra?

  When his father found out that Brunello was a billionaire, the response that his father had was fantastic. He's like, "I don't care about any of that. All I care is if you're a good man." And so then he compares and contrasts, you know, the fact that he's very wealthy when, at the time he's writing this book, but that he was very poor when he was younger. And this is what he said. "Living with little is not only healthy, but it also rids us of the frantic needs of life and protects us from the unpredictable events that fate might throw at us. Also, in case we luckily become rich, it helps us be fully aware of this fortunate condition, which paradoxically is not as easy to manage as is commonly thought." So that is the words of a poor person that became extremely wealthy, right? And he's like, "It's a very fortunate condition, and it is not easy to manage as is commonly thought."

• 14:09David Senra?

  I'm gonna go back to, if you listen to episode 286, over decade after decade, there's all these examples in that podcast of Warren and Charlie talking about. It's like, "You can build a successful business, and most likely what's gonna screw it up is not a competitor, it's you." And so I go into more detail in that episode, if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend you do, but I think Munger summarizes it perfectly, as he's always able to do, right? Just breaks down these very profound thoughts into like an easy maxim for us to remember. "The problem is not getting rich, it's staying sane." That is the same idea that we're finding in Brunello's autobiography. "It helps us to be fully aware of this fortunate condition, which paradoxically is not as easy to manage as is commonly thought." So then he goes back to his desire for solitude.

• 14:53David Senra?

  So he talks about the attraction for the spiritual life of religious people, their silence, meditation, and prayer. "This is perhaps also the reason why, whenever I can, I spend part of my days alone, as I long for solitude, as if it was a distant but beloved and precious friend." We are like 25 pages into this book. How many times has he already told us about his desire for solitude, his love of silence, his love of silent thinking? And then he talks about his very poor but beloved uncle, who unfortunately passes away early in life. And how, really, this is something that pops up in the books over and over again, that words of encouragement matter. If we are in a position to encourage a younger person trying to do something with their lives, we should do so. I think back to, the best example of this in the history of entrepreneurship is the

• 15:36David Senra?

  fact that a young Henry Ford, I think he was like 30 years old, winds up meeting his idol. His idol at that time, his hero, is Thomas Edison. They wind up becoming essentially like best friends for the rest of their lives after this. But when Henry Ford meets Thomas Edison, he doesn't even have a company yet, but he's telling Thomas Edison about the fact that he has invented this internal combustion engine and he wants to try to use it to make an automobile that has its own power source. Because at the time, most of the cars were either electric or steam powered. And what happened at this meeting changed Henry Ford's life. He talked about later on in life, going through all these ups and downs, these trials and tribulations, as he's trying to build his company. And in the low points, he would remember what Edison said to him and it encouraged him. This has been talked about in multiple books I did on Henry Ford.

• 16:17David Senra?

  But, once Edison heard what Henry Ford had said, he had slammed his fist on the table. He was very enthusiastic about Henry Ford's idea. And he said, "Young man, that's the thing. You have it. Keep at it." And we see in Brunello's life that his uncle's playing that same role. He's telling him, "You're special. You're meant to do great things." "The story of my migrant uncle has affected me in a rather special way. He had a tough experience as a migrant. He was smiling, polite, reserved, and unable to feel anger. He was seen as the quote unquote educated member of the family, and he died too early. He used to look at me with kind attention. He would often repeat, 'You will be a great engineer, a famous person.'" A few years ago, now this is crazy, so I think it's already, you probably already

• 17:01David Senra?

  picked up on this, but Brunello has an intense, intense love for reading, for literature. When you hear him speak, it's literature, this book, he's constantly quoting books that he's read. He's constantly talking about how the books that he's read has influenced his approach to building a company. And so he says something very fascinating here that made me think of one of my favorite quotes on books ever from Carl Sagan, which I'll read to you in one minute. So it says, "A few years ago, his daughter came to see me with a copy of Plato's Symposium from her father's library. It was battered and thickly underlined with a red pencil. I still struggle to understand how he possibly developed his interest in philosophy. I recently picked the book up again and was touched to reread those immortal passages that moved him then and today move me."

• 17:46David Senra?

  He is rereading his uncle's books and his uncle's highlights long after his uncle had died. And so as soon as I read that, I thought of this Carl Sagan quote about what a book is. It's just absolutely fantastic. What an astonishing thing a book is. It's a flat object made from a tree with flexible parts on it, which are imprinted lots of funny, dark squiggles. But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe somebody dead for thousands of years. Across the millennia, an author is speaking clearly and silently inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people who never knew each other, citizens of distant epochs. Books break the shackles of time.

• 18:30David Senra?

  A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic. Go back to the introduction where he's talking about, hey, I feel like I'm Machiavelli. Because when he was young, he'd hang out, he'd be drinking during the day, but at night, in the austere silence of his studio, he's engaged in solitary literary conversations with ancient scholars. That's exactly what's happening where we are in the book. And it was happening when his uncle was alive, talking to Plato. And now we see Brunello talking not only to Plato, but also seeing what, which of Plato's words affected his long-dead uncle. And so then Brunello goes into more detail about the important relationship that he had with his father. It is insane. I know I repeat myself over and again, but it's just in every single book. Like, I couldn't even make this up if I tried.

• 19:13David Senra?

  It goes back to a line that appeared in episode 242 in this biography of Francis Ford Coppola that has always stuck with me. And you see it in the story over and over again, you're about to see it with Brunello and his dad. It says, "You can always understand the son by the story of his father. The story of the father is embedded in the son." And so he talks about the fact that his father, through repetition, you and I have talked about this over and over again, this is very important, repetition is persuasive. You study these unbelievably great entrepreneurs, you think, oh, they must have like 50 ideas. No, they have five, six, 10, a handful of ideas that they repeat over and over and over again, up and down, everybody in the company, decade after decade. And so his dad is doing this to him when he's a young boy. And he says, "My father spoke little and often repeated the same few warnings." Here's one example of that. "You must be a good man.

• 19:58David Senra?

  You'll be sorry if you do not keep your word." I would tease him for constantly repeating the very same things, but his wise words still guide me. So he is writing this book, let's say he's like 63, something like that. He's talking about conversations that he had with his dad more than 50 years ago. And he says, "His wise words still guide me." Here's another example. "Do you want to be the richest man in the cemetery?" And then the next one is something that I've heard Brunello repeat over and over again in talks. "Remember that debt works on Sundays, too." And so he takes a lesson that he's learning as he's helping his father work on the farm. And he's going to wind up dedicating this idea, the fact that beauty should be closely linked to your work, is something that Brunello is going to use in his career, like as he's building his fashion house, right? So he says, "I remember when we worked the land with the animals.

• 20:43David Senra?

  My task was to lead the oxen. Dad was behind me operating the plow. When the plowing was done, or excuse me, when the plowing was over, Dad carefully stared at the well-marked furrows and then told me, 'Well done. Look how straight they are.'" If I asked him why it was so important, his answer was straightforward and true. "Because this way looks better. I liked the fact that beauty was so closely linked to work. This love for tidiness and cleanliness has accompanied me throughout my life." The ancient Greeks, so he's obsessed with ancient Greek culture. He'll talk about the influence they had on his life, how he built his business. He's constantly reading and rereading a lot of ancient Greek texts. And so he says, "The ancient Greeks had wonderful expression in this regard. If your doorstep is clean, then your city will be clean. Order is the first law of heaven." And then he talks about the fact that they're a very close family. They're all living in the same house.

• 21:27David Senra?

  They see each other all the time. He's 10 when his grandfather dies. So he says, "Grandpa Ferioni pointed out to me that each season has its own character and grace, enhanced by the contrast with the previous one." Here's his lesson, though. "Similar to how good men stand out even more when they come after evil ones." So his grandfather dies when he's 67. Brunello is only 10. He says, "I saw my dad cry for the first time, and I was puzzled." He's crying at his father's death, right? "I saw my dad cry for the first time, and I was puzzled because this reaction clashed with my dad's stern character. That was my first experience of death, and that memory never left me. I understood how dignified one must react when faced with sorrow."

• 22:10David Senra?

  And one of his grandfather's lasting lessons was the fact that humans are capable of adapting to even the worst circumstances. Grandpa loved to tell me stories about what he had experienced in the war. He told me anecdotes that in the end emphasized man's ability to adapt even to the worst circumstances.

• 22:27David Senra?

  And then I love this line and how he described, this is, they're still on the farm. They're about to move to the city and everything changes. But it's important that that changes because we're going to see why you can see the story of the father, of Bunuel's father, embedded in the son. Because he says, "The humiliation and the tears that his father had to endure is what drove him to be a success." So I just love this line, the way he describes his family. "My family was organized like a small peaceful army. Each one of us had a task assigned strictly set by tradition." And one lesson he used building his company, that he learned by being a farmer, was that there's a value in patience. Great things, just like a great harvest, takes time. You cannot plant a seed today and expect it to be full grown tomorrow." This is one of my favorite lines in the book.

• 23:11David Senra?

  "Postponing the reward increases its appreciation, a fact that has been forgotten in the current culture of impatience. Trees are a perfect example of this. Sometime ago, we planted a small oak tree in the valley, and the gardener commented regretfully that we would never get to enjoy its vast shade. On the contrary, for me, that tree was an investment in something that would embellish the life of those who will come after us, and its great value lay precisely there." And then this is the first mention of the fact that his parents' humiliation is going to wind up driving him later on. They were from the country, they didn't have a lot of money, they're sending their kids to school in the city. Mom and dad never went to the parents' night with the other teachers because they felt embarrassed and uncomfortable about not being educated and even about the way they dressed.

• 23:56David Senra?

  Perhaps this is the reason my mother was very keen on how we children dressed. And so even though his parents didn't have a lot of money, they taught him very valuable lessons. And so this is some everlasting values that he winds up cherishing his whole life. "For my father, I learned the courage to dream and to choose. He is a simple man, but I owe him something that has contributed to my entrepreneurial success. The awareness that any project involves an effort, and its ultimate purpose must be mankind and its dignity. The willingness to make sacrifices for others, to be able to wait for a reward. The devotion to work. For me, these are everlasting values." There was no wealth, he's still talking about his childhood, okay? "There was no wealth, but we were happy." And it makes me think, having enough is itself a form of wealth.

• 24:39David Senra?

  And so think about the title of the book, "The Dream of Salomeo." Salomeo is like this little village that, you know, it was essentially in like a state of despair. A lot of the people, a lot of young people growing up there, would eventually try to move to where the economic opportunity in the city was. Brunello's, the reason he gets like so many people appreciate what he did is because he did essentially the opposite of what I was. He's like, no, we're gonna stay here. I'm gonna reinvest. I'm gonna, first of all, set my company up here and then reinvest the profits to actually build up the village and to prove that we can actually have economic opportunity, not just solely in the city. And part of this is because he definitely prefers the countryside to the city. And if you go on YouTube and just type in Salomeo or Brunello Cucinelli Salomeo, you'll see. It's absolutely gorgeous. I live in a city

• 25:22David Senra?

  right now. I would much rather live in Salomeo. It is beautiful. In fact, a few times I was reading the book, I'm like, is it possible I can learn Italian? Like, I'm just very appear, like, I could see why so many people, you know, again, my friend Jeremy was telling me about this a few weeks ago, that I didn't even know, a bunch of like, the tech CEOs, I think the guys from Google, Benihoff from Salesforce, they actually went, I think they all went together, if I understood the story correctly, and actually went and visited Salomeo. And so he gets to the point where, why is his family going to leave this beautiful countryside, where they live a simple but a very happy life, to go to the city? And it says, leaving the countryside and moving to the city was a widespread aspiration supported by desire for wealth that only showed its positive side back then. So then he starts quoting

• 26:04David Senra?

  again. He says, Rousseau thought that living in the city was one of the worst evils for the people of his time. The fact is that loneliness, spiritual and economic poverty often go hand in hand with the progress of modern cities, putting an even heavier burden on the malaise of the soul. That, that term, malaise of the soul, he's gonna describe like what working in a factory does. Essentially, like, one of the pieces of advice that he gives the readers, like, you have to avoid work that produces malaise of your soul. And so they moved to the city. Now they have electricity, they have television, and he does not like it. He likes the electricity, but he doesn't like the, the fact that he feels they were closer when they didn't have all this technology. We brought with us the very same family organization, but the television brought about a big change, because during family meals, we would interact less with each other. Our human relationships weakened.

• 26:50David Senra?

  And so these experiences you'll see informs him as like the entrepreneur as he's building his company, he's like, listen, we're going to use technology, we're going to use the latest technology, but we're not going to be used by it. His belief is that technology is a tool, yet a lot of people are becoming slaves to it. And so in that article with Ohm, he said something that was interesting, he's like, there's no group emailing inside the company. And he says, no emails can be sent to more than two addresses, just one or two, no group mailing. Why must a single email be read by 10 different people? Also, when you go to meetings, you're not allowed to bring your phone. Here, no meetings with mobile phones. No one is allowed to bring them into the meeting room. You must look me in the eye. You must know things by heart. And he has a line about this in the article that was interesting. He says, we have swapped, the quote as it appears in the article says, we have now swapped information for knowledge.

• 27:34David Senra?

  I think he meant the reverse. So I'm going to read it as my interpretation of it. It says, we have swapped knowledge for information, which is not the same thing. I do not want to know. I'm not online. I don't even have a computer. And so he goes into where he feels he got his true education, which was at the cafe. He mentioned this in the introduction, that he spent a lot of time in Italian cafes. And he says, every evening after dinner, I went to that cafe. Late at night, words prevailed over games and discussions began. We debated over topics of great political relevance, and eventually we spoke freely and unbridled about economics, theology, religion, spirituality, and women. Some of the guys had studied philosophy. They talked to me about a subject matter that I was unfamiliar with because it was not part of the curriculum of surveyors. That's what he's trained to be at the time in his life.

• 28:17David Senra?

  And he says, today, I think that both universities and cafes were places for discussion. Perhaps cafes had a slightly richer human diversity than universities. Only in cafes could you come across both the penniless and the genius, the unlucky and the affluent, the shrewd and the honest, the bossy and the shy. These discussions produced a wealth of teachings that were not so easy to find. And so after he discovered philosophy, he's like, oh, this is what I was missing my whole life. Philosophy would become a strong and permanent presence in my life, the safest guide besides the memories of my family. I'm seduced by the purity of thought of so many exceptional men, which is to be found in their expressions and their aphorisms. And so at the same time that he's discovering philosophy, he's also seeing the humiliation that his father has to endure by working in a factory in the city.

• 29:03David Senra?

  And so this is where he starts developing his own philosophy on entrepreneurship that he's going to wind up building his company around. He says, "My dad was 45. He never complained about the hard work or the low wage, but rather about being belittled by his employers. What have I done so wrong to be offended like this? I felt helpless since I could not defend my father." And he's got a great line in one of his talks about this turning point in his life. He says, "I could see the humiliation in my father's eyes. His teary eyes were the source of inspiration for my life." And so he's reflecting on that in the book. He says, "I knew that I would live and work in order to foster the moral and economic dignity of man." So this is this idea of humanistic capitalism. And so it takes a few years for him to figure out, what am I going to do with my life? And so he's describing what he's been doing up until this point. I think he's 25 when he starts his company.

• 29:48David Senra?

  And so he says, "At around age 24, the urge to find a job grew stronger and stronger. One day, I worked in a theater. Another day, I was a sales agent. Another one, an engineer. At that age, when the strength of youth flew through my veins like a torrent in spring, my imagination ruled over my dreams. I thought of the young heroes of history, of Alexander the Great, who would stand on the beach, watching the sea and dreaming of reaching the end of the world." And so he's reading a lot. He's trying to figure out, what am I going to do with my life? And I love what he says, like how he talks about, um, the life was a confirmation of the immense value of books. I grew to love them. And then he talks about this, this odd feeling that happens when you finish a great book, like you're both happy and sad at the exact same time.

• 30:30David Senra?

  "When I got to the last page, it was a bit like leaving a dear friend, and I felt a little bereaved." And one of the books he picks up changes his life forever. This is a main thesis, right? The main idea behind founders is that one book, one idea can change everything. So he reads this book by this guy named Theodore Levitt, and it's called The Marketing Imagination. The underlying idea of the book was that developed countries would have to specialize in high-quality products if they did not want to be ousted by emerging countries, which were learning to manufacture average products at much lower cost. I was struck by the straightforward logic of this concept, which would become the cornerstone of my entrepreneurial mindset." And so that idea is in his mind. He also starts dating his, which is going to become his wife.

• 31:14David Senra?

  Her name's, I don't know how to pronounce her name, Federica, maybe? But this was really important because she was born and lived in Salameo. And so he says, having fallen madly in love, everything about her seemed beautiful and attractive, starting from her village. And so at 24 years old, he's actually hired as a model of a sportswear company. He starts reading like fashion magazines, getting more into fashion. And he says, step by step, I was moving towards my future. So there's all that background to get to this point where he finally starts laying out like his very unique philosophy. And he had these ideas, he's saying he had these ideas even at the very beginning of his company. And so he says, I imagined products, he still doesn't know that, he's known as, maybe you don't know this, maybe I haven't said this yet, he's known as like the king of cashmere. His foundational first product was women's cashmere sweaters.

• 31:59David Senra?

  My understanding that that was the first successful product that the entire, like the foundation of the business would rest upon, kind of like the Apple II computer at the very beginning of the days of Apple. So he says, I imagined products that could gratify both consumers and manufacturers. A pleasant workplace with long and relaxing breaks. So I think they get their 8 a.m. sharp. I think the entire company shuts down at 1 P.M. for a 90-minute lunch. And then they go back to work till 5:30. So it says, a pleasant workplace with long and relaxing breaks where craftsmanship would prevail. I wanted human relationships to be humane and authentic. I wanted adequate wages, allowing for a dignified and peaceful life. I thought of a peaceful work environment, allowing creativity to thrive.

• 32:40David Senra?

  I did want to make a profit, but in an ethical, dignified, and moral way. At the age of 25, I made my final decision. I would manufacture colored cashmere sweaters for women. So I don't know anything about cashmere, but it sounds like people were very reluctant to actually make colored cashmere, to actually dye it, which was surprising to me. And we'll get to there in one minute. My goal was to produce high-quality items manufactured with Italian craftsmanship and manual skills, products that were expensive but not overpriced, targeted at a market segment that was called absolute luxury. I have always, and this is one of my favorite, this is actually my favorite part of this entire section, and it's something I'm doing in my own life with Founders Podcast. I have always been firmly convinced that in order to successfully stand out,

• 33:22David Senra?

  you need to focus on one single project representing the dream of your life. And so then he's going to describe what he calls the most important moment of his life. But this is the first time he mentions something that he repeats a few times after this. And the fact that you have to embrace instinct and recklessness. He has no money when he's starting his company. And so, looking back, he's like, this is very reckless, but I was just following my instinct. So he says, I have to confess that my initial motivation arose out of recklessness and instinct. Today, I'm firmly convinced that we must act even when we have feeble hopes. There was uncertainty at the beginning, as is often the case at the beginning of a company. But I persevered and one day, something changed for the better. And so if he had no money to start a company, how do you start a company selling expensive cashmere?

• 34:07David Senra?

  He finds a supplier. He calls him a very good and serious man who unfortunately dies early. And he says, so he's like, you know, buying essentially a bunch of cashmere yarn. And Brunello thought, maybe I can make like 60 sweaters out of this, right? And so he says, he very generously told me that he would certainly sell the yarn to me and then added, and it still makes me emotional to think about. You will pay me when you get your first money. I know that you're a good guy. So now he's got the yarn. He goes to meet with this guy named Alessio. This is the guy that he's going to convince to actually dye the yarn. My first meeting with Alessio, who was at the time perhaps one of the most expert cashmere dyers in the world, was wonderful. I brought him six sweaters and asked him to dye them in six different colors.

• 34:48David Senra?

  His first blunt reply was, it is crazy to dye cashmere in these colors. I spent nearly the whole morning trying to convince him to meet my request. He finally told me, let me try, but I'm not sure how it will turn out. It was undoubtedly the most important moment of my life. And it's this moment, if you were watching a movie on Brunello's life, you would pause right here. That is the moment when his life changed direction, when he starts to transition from a poor, uneducated peasant to many decades later, being a billionaire entrepreneur. That is insane. And then he quotes one, he talks about this, he's looking back to this. This is one of my favorite movies. I would watch it multiple times every Christmas. I've probably seen the movie 20 times.

• 35:34David Senra?

  I've tried to get my daughter to be as enthusiastic about this movie as much as I am. It's really hard for somebody, you know, that's 10, that wants to watch a black and white movie. And so he says, "What had happened to me, uncertainty at first, and then meeting these two wonderful people, people that he would not have been able to start his business without, right? Reminds me of the movie It's a Wonderful Life." I think that movie came out in like the 1930s. It was directed by Frank Capra. "I see myself as the main character, saved by an angel who is disguised as a man. And I think of those two people as two true angels who trusted me, a young man with no money and tons of enthusiasm." And time and time again, at the very early days of his very shaky company, he is saved by these very generous people that believe in him.

• 36:19David Senra?

  He still has no money. He's about to, he says, "His first company was this guy, or his first customer, rather, was this guy named Albert Franz. And it's because Albert Franz paid upfront and on time that he has a business. Undoubtedly, this memory of the first order of 53 sweaters will always have a special place in my heart. I had no money, and the only way to finance my business was through timely customer payments." And we see this happens again. He's got another customer, this guy named Vicenzo. And it says, "He placed a very large order. I immediately pointed out to him that I had no guarantees to offer, since I had no money or property." He cracked a benevolent smile and replied, "I have five brothers and my father and my mother. We are all convinced of your entrepreneurial ability. We believe in you. This is enough for us. Just keep working and do your best, that is all."

• 37:03David Senra?

  That was a big incentive to me, as it encouraged me to outdo myself, and so I did. And by paying upfront, and he also said, this is Vicenzo. He considers this guy his like first sponsor. He says, "This is the money I want you to put in your business. It was a big sum, and I was speechless, because it was a tough time for me, and I was not used to managing large amounts of money." And so he remembers what it felt like to survive and succeed after one year being in business. He said, "My business knowledge was still limited, and I knew nothing of my competitors. But this did not jeopardize my enthusiasm." There's that word again. How many times he talked about the benefit of him being enthusiastic, right? Which was constantly on the rise, meaning his enthusiasm was on the rise. "I had the feeling I had been waiting for that moment forever,

• 37:47David Senra?

  the moment when my life changed direction." And then he talks about an idea that you and I have discussed over and over again. We talked about it with Jeff Bezos, with Akia Merida, the founder of Sony, that it's helpful to have a goal larger than just your individual company. And so this is when he has the idea of restoring Salomeo. So he's going to call Salomeo a hamlet. I had to look up that word. It means a small settlement, generally one smaller than a village. And so he says, looking back, at the time, you know, his success was very limited, but at the time to him, it was extraordinary. Limited to who he became and the size of the company. You know, they do hundreds of millions of dollars a year. He's got, you know, hundreds of employees, maybe even like a thousand employees now. But back then, he's like, this was extraordinary. I cannot believe this. And so he's like, I need a new factory. Where can I do this?

• 38:31David Senra?

  He says, I thought of a new location for a tiny factory. I thought of Salomeo. I regretted the state of neglect of that ancient, small hamlet. So one day I lightheartedly decided to try and buy the tower and the medieval castle. I was fascinated by the architecture that bore the signs of such a long history. The building seemed eternal and perfect to headquarter my small company, right in the middle of this charming medieval village. It took me a great and sincere effort, but eventually the owner, when he learned that my goal was to preserve the castle and over time turn it into an asset for everybody to enjoy, agreed to sell it to me. And this is where he mentions he had an advantage by just doing the opposite of whatever, what everybody else was doing. Back then, life in a village was not very sought after

• 39:13David Senra?

  as people preferred to move to the city hoping to find better economic and social conditions. I did the opposite and the company continued to grow. This moment marked the very beginning of my master plan for my business and for Salomeo. And so he's growing the company. He's restoring Salomeo. And this is where he starts defining what his philosophy on entrepreneurship and company building will be. And so he says, we discussed something we decided to call humanistic capitalism. It's a form of contemporary capitalism rooted in strong, ancient values, where making a profit should never harm or offend people or things, and where part of the earnings should be earmarked to concretely improving the condition of human life. I think he donates 20% of the earnings every year into improving humanity.

• 39:57David Senra?

  I think a lot of that money goes into improving Salomeo for the residents. And I think a lot of those residents work for the company. He also pays, I think, wages that are about like 20% higher. So it says, "We're part of the earnings should be earmarked to completely improving the condition of human life. The human being should be at the center." And so he talks about this a few pages later. "There's no difference in wages between workers and clerks. Employees are paid more than the average of the market. In the morning, everyone is expected to come to work at 8:00 a.m. sharp, and work ended at 5:30 in the afternoon." And so not only did he start building his company about this, but he starts putting the word out about how they're building the company. And the fact that this is so different from how most people are building the companies, it gets a ton of attention. And so he's going to get a ton of international press. If you Google Brunello Cucinelli, or if you watch

• 40:39David Senra?

  YouTube, you'll see it over and over again. Almost all of the major media outlets all over the world have traveled to the village or have given interviews. So who knows? This idea of like picking a purpose larger than your individual company winds up benefiting because how many people learned about the existence of his company and the products they offer from this? So it says, "The first important interview started. The international press was intrigued by what was happening in this small and unknown village." And so one interesting thing about the book, he never tells you like the year that he's talking about. Sometimes he'll reference how old he is. But it seems like they started the company in 1978. And then it says, "They didn't expand from their initial product." It sounds like for 22 years. At least that's the way it sounds like to me. So this is

• 41:20David Senra?

  essentially about expanding the business when customers asked. You and I talked about this last week on the Ralph Lauren, episode 288, where Ralph Lauren was saying, he's like, "Well, I sold ties." And then customers would ask, like, "What else do you make?" And so the same thing has happened in Brunello's career here. "International markets started asking us to design a total look collection for men and women to complement our cashmere sweaters with clothing, bags, shoes, and accessories. Therefore, at the beginning of the new century," so to me, that means the year 2000, right? "So the beginning of the new century, I made a choice that marked a sharp turn for our business. I entered the market of men's and women's fine clothing." And then to figure out, he's like, "Well, I've never made men's clothing before. Where did I get ideas?" We're going to see, he's going to do exactly what Ralph Lauren did

• 42:03David Senra?

  as well. "He borrowed ideas from my own personal wardrobe. Ralph just made the clothes that he wanted to wear that no one else was making." And so both Ralph and Brunello are actually relying on their personal taste. And so a few pages later, I gotta tell you about this great line that he has because what's gonna happen in a few years from now where we are in the story, it's surprising. He took his company public and one of his reasons for doing so, I thought was very interesting. We'll get there in a few pages. This is happening a few years before that. His kids are growing up and they're having a desire to work in the business. And so he's having this conversation with his daughter. He says, "Dad, she told me, I would like to come work in the company. What do you think? It's fine by me. You should be free to follow your instinct in life.

• 42:44David Senra?

  But remember, you can't inherit the ability to run a business just as you inherit the company ownership." So what he's saying there is like, "I may pass down the equity that I own in this company, but it doesn't mean you're actually the one running the business." For some reason, back, I think it was episode 234, I read the fantastic autobiography of Sam Walton for the second time. That's a book I'm gonna reread over and over again throughout my life. But he said something in that book that was very interesting, but I think is good advice because Sam Walton, like other entrepreneurs, probably like you, probably like I, we have this excessive amount of drive that may seem normal to you, but is completely abnormal to most people. And so in that book, Sam said something that was fantastic. He says, "One thing I never did, which I'm really proud of, was to push any of my kids too hard.

• 43:29David Senra?

  I knew I was a fairly overactive fellow." That's the understatement of the century. "I knew I was a fairly overactive fellow and I didn't expect them to try to be just like me." And so later on, this conversation he's having with his daughter is gonna pop back up again, saying that whoever is the most qualified to run the business should run the business. It should not just go to you just because you're my daughter. Another interesting thing is I'm reading this copy after Payman Raf gave me, so this is Payman's book, right? And so I see the highlights that he, just like when Brunello was rereading his father's, or excuse me, his uncle's copy of Plato, he could see what parts jumped out to his uncle. I could see what parts jumped out to Payman. And so this part was brought to my attention by a note that Payman left and I loved it.

• 44:13David Senra?

  So this goes back to the fact that he doesn't tell us like what year he's in. I'm pretty sure this is his reaction to the financial crisis in 2008. Because he says, "I remember when a major American bank went bankrupt in September and it had a huge impact across the financial world." I'm pretty sure he's referencing the 2008, 2009 financial crisis. But I love his reaction to this. So it says, Brunello gathers all his employees together and they're talking about this. And this is what he said. "I honestly do not know what's going on, but it's certainly something bigger than us. Today, our company employs 500 people, but I can assure you that we have the money to carry on for another two years. As far as your job goes, you have nothing to fear. But I want to ask a special favor from you.

• 44:56David Senra?

  From tomorrow morning, you should try and be even more organized, creative, and brilliant. It's the only thing we can do because everything else is beyond and above us, and therefore there is no point in worrying about it. There is nothing we can do." And so then he revisits this idea that media begets more media, which begets more media, and it kind of just snowballs. And this was very beneficial to his business. "My company had developed so much that not only was I required to travel, but also the opposite started happening too, namely, a lot of customers, journalists, and tourists came from various countries to visit Salomeo. The editor of an international magazine, probably the most important in the world, he doesn't ever say what that magazine is, contacted me."

• 45:37David Senra?

  So he comes and spends six days with Brunello and touring the factory and then the business. And this just completely changed everything. "That was a turning point for the recognition of our corporate philosophy. That coverage marked the beginning of a true media celebration." And so then he starts traveling all over the world. The book is really fantastic where it talks about going to America, going to Asia, just all the different experiences that he had. He's being bestowed a bunch of honors, like some honorary degrees. And he's talking about the time, so he's over 60 when he's writing the book, but this is happening when he's 57. And this is what I mentioned earlier, where he really feels that you should embrace enthusiasm and a bit of youthful recklessness. "I understood then how useful and beneficial enthusiasm and a bit of youthful recklessness

• 46:20David Senra?

  can be, the same that had prompted me to make my first bold business decision as a young man. I was now 57, and not at all old, but the thing I had experienced and my reason itself, which had replaced my recklessness, set me apart from those young people and made my joy fade." And so I had to read that part a few times to actually understand what he was saying. He's like, listen, your youthful recklessness as you age is replaced with wisdom. But being a bit spontaneous and reckless and going off instinct and not wisdom is actually makes life fun. And so if he's only going by reason, he's saying your joy actually fades. That's not a thought that I come across very often in the books that I read. And so as the company grows and continues to be more successful, he picks out these

• 47:01David Senra?

  other projects that he feels he wants to invest in that'll benefit humanity. And it's this idea where he's like, I need to start a school to teach craftsmanship. And so it says, he had a friend that worked as a doorman in a government office. So this guy spends his whole day, like these entrances, like the, you know, the six square feet, he just stands there all day. And he's like, this is really weird because what did this guy do before he got this job? And he says, prior to that job, he had been one of the last stucco decorators, one of the true artists who had decorated with creative grace the buildings in Rome. And so this guy has the skills of like an old craftsman, but is those skills when you move to city are no longer required. And so Brunello wants to do something about this. He says, this concern for the future contributed to shaping the idea of a school of arts and crafts in Salomeo.

• 47:46David Senra?

  This would be a school fueled by passion, whose aim would be to teach old crafts and make them contemporary. The school would function as a workshop, paying students while they were being trained. If you listen to episode 205, it's on the second autobiography of James Dyson. That book is called Invention, A Life by James Dyson. Highly recommend buying the book, but listen to that episode. James Dyson does something very, very similar and created his own school for designers. And just like Brunello, you can, you can get a job at Dyson or you can go somewhere else. They don't, they don't insist that you only work for them though. So it says, this would function as a workshop and we'd pay students while they were being trained. They would not be physically confined to a single location, but it would be spread all over the village in Salomeo. And small, these small buildings would each house a different discipline.

• 48:31David Senra?

  Brunello always talks about the fact that you should sit around and listen to older people. They have wisdom that you lack. And you see this with who he chooses to be the faculty. The teachers would be close to retirement age and therefore wise. And so it was around this time that he decides to take his company public and he talks about why he did that. "We decided to list our company on the Milan Stock Exchange." Before doing so, there was a lot of analysis and debate, but the main reasons behind the choice were that we wanted to become even more international and sound, financially sound that is. But not least of all, it was my belief, this goes back to the conversation he was having with his daughter, you know, early in the book, but not least of all, my belief that the ability to run a company cannot be inherited. Therefore, in the future, someone outside of the family might step in and manage it.

• 49:16David Senra?

  And then just a few more ideas of his before the book wraps up. Simplify your work and your words. Avoid work that produces a malaise of your soul and know when is enough. He says, "Beauty is simplicity." This is an essential theme. Simplicity does not mean getting rid of something. It means applying knowledge and choice to come up with synthesis. The greatest minds can convey deep and complex thoughts with words that are understandable to everyone. And then he goes back to an early memory from childhood when his father was working on the farm. He'd be physically tired, but he did not have the malaise of the soul and the discontent that inner, like, city factory work produced. "I could tell that my father was tired, but at the end of his long days, he did not feel

• 50:00David Senra?

  any inner tension, any of that malaise of the soul that is so common nowadays." Fair work may be exhausting, but it should just be a matter of healthy, physical tiredness, whereas the mind should accept it as a game. And then he repeats that line that having enough is itself a form of wealth. "We worked just enough to guarantee a healthy and peaceful life." The motto of that civilization was, "Having enough is itself a form of wealth." And this may be my favorite direct piece of advice in the entire book. First, I'll tell you what the advice is and why he said it. This is the advice. "Enthusiastically build an extraordinary reality day after day." This is why.

• 50:42David Senra?

  "Today in the world, there are still too many women and men who suffer because they struggle to hide from their children the sorrow of humiliation in life. Every morning, they get up and face the world, only to come back disappointed. If people tell you that your plan is too ambitious, do not listen to them. They are trying to clip your wings." And again, I think that bears repeating. "Enthusiastically build an extraordinary reality day after day."

• 51:11David Senra?

  And then he closes with some parting advice on the value of listening. I would like to give the new generation a piece of advice. Learn to listen because it is beautiful, pleasant, and fruitful. If you listen to the elderly, you will eventually be able to see beyond their wrinkles and find the children they once were. If you talk to your parents, if you listen to your peers, you will share joys and sorrows with them, and you will be more ready to reap the golden fruits of the future. The past is the essential nourishment of the future. Nothing is old, nothing is new, and time is what we make of it. Sometimes, one single life is not enough to build up enough experience to be happy.

• 51:53David Senra?

  If we listen to and preserve the memories and experiences of our fellow human beings, we will live better. And that is where I'll leave it for the full story. I'm gonna try to source the book for you. I don't know if I'll be successful or not. I mentioned my friend Jeremy at the beginning of the podcast. He got his copy. He said he's got his copy on Abe Books. He also says that they can be available on eBay, and sometimes you can actually go into the boutique, if you have a boutique close to you, and see if they'll sell you one as well. If you can't get the book, though, I will leave the link down below. I highly recommend reading that long piece about the conversation that Ol Malik had with Brunello Cucinelli. I do think that article will actually give you a good sense of Brunello and who he is and what's important to him.

• 52:36David Senra?

  I will also leave a link down below if you want to join my email newsletter. It is free. I email my top 10 highlights from each book that I read. I try to make these as short as possible, so they're almost like little maxims. I'm a sucker for aphorisms, and I like to go back and actually read them. I find it very helpful to remember some of the ideas in the books. That link will be down below and available at founderspodcast.com. And another way to support the podcast is by signing up for Founder's Premium. That is a private podcast feed where I do AMA Ask Me Anything episodes. I should be recording a new AMA episode in the next two or three days. If you want to listen to those and support the podcast at the same time, that link will be down below as well. That is 289 books down, 1,000 to go, and I'll talk to you again soon.