BREAKING: Congress Moves to Commit Treason and Allow Israel to Forever Enslave America’s Military

This month, unless Donald Trump stops it, our treasonous Congress is likely to merge the US military with Israel’s genocidal armed forces. Dennis Kucinich on the end of American sovereignty. (00:00) The Attempt to Merge the US Military With the IDF (06:08) The Subversion of Congress (26:00) Who Is Pushing This Bill? (44:33) How Can America Remain Independent? (50:00) Will Democrats Vote Against This Bill? Dennis Kucinich was Mayor of Cleveland, an eight-term U. S. Congressman, Democratic presidential candidate in 2004 and 2008, and currently authors The Kucinich Report on Substack: https://kucinichreport.substack.com/ Paid partnerships: American Financing: NMLS 182334, http://nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-685-5696 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://AmericanFinancing.net/Tucker. Brooklyn Bedding: Get 30% off sitewide with promo code TUCKER at https://brooklynbedding.com Black Rifle Coffee: Use promo code "Tucker" for 30% off at https://blackriflecoffee.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Dennis Kucinich, thank you for doing this. So a lot of us who've been paying half attention keep hearing that there's an effort in the Congress to, in some basic sense, merge the US military with IDF, with the Israeli military. Same with our intelligence services. It's hard to believe that could be true. Is it true? What do you know about it?

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Well, the National Defense Authorization Act of 2027, Section 219, has a provision that provides for the integration of the IDF and the US military at the top, most sensitive levels of our military operations. And that is a fact. Now, when you have an integration and you say you're going to eliminate duplication, that's a merger. And so they're merging. And the...

• 1:33Tucker Carlson?

  US military and Israeli military?

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and in specific areas, like artificial intelligence and autonomous functioning of vehicles, you know, that will increase the kill efficiency, right?

• 1:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  In quantum sensing that deals with very sophisticated data and will blur the distinction between offense and defense. Okay?

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Cyber electronic war is another area they they're they want to merge in, which you can't really, you know, if you if you take AI and you match it with these sophisticated technologies, you expand the ability to hurt people, really, to kill people. You know, they want to merge missile defense, space defense, directed energy, a whole range of things, and biological technology, including biological, potential biological warfare. What could go wrong, right?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  See, and I I look at it this way, Tucker. The first issue is American sovereignty. I don't care, Israel or whoever, we should, we need to maintain our sovereignty. We cannot cause another country to be involved in the decision makings that relate to the national security of the United States of America.

• 3:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  We have to be singular and solitary in that regard. Unfortunately, this provision in this bill, all the safeguards go out the window. And essentially, it's a merger and, you know, one step from merger is an acquisition. I I am, yeah, really, you know, think about that. I but and think about this too, in this context. We had kind of a quesi, kind of a practice run of this merger in Iran. Look what happened. You know, the Israel, the United States, at the behest of Israel, goes in and attacks Iran.

• 3:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Working with Israel on this, it ended up being a disaster on so many different levels.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  So that's what we've already found out from that kind of a cooperation, let's say. And now imagine if you get two parties together and they go forward from there, what, you know, again, what could go wrong? The United States must remain sovereign. We must not in any way cede this idea of Israel being integrated, the militaries of the US and Israel being integrated. The other thing is, it's unconstitutional. I mean, really, they bypassed the treaty mechanism. You know, we joined NATO as a treaty.

• 4:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  There's no treaty here, it's just in legislation. This should be going to the Senate, at least, for approval. Not so, just to put in legislation, make it happen. And also, people, you know, the president's the commander in chief of US armed forces, each of whom take an oath to defend the Constitution. First of all, Israel doesn't have a Constitution. Secondly, they're not taking any oath to the United States of America to protect our interests. So what is this about? Why are we becoming more vulnerable to a nation whose, you know, whose military values are so distinct from ours?

• 5:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I mean, there's so many levels here. I mean, just to address that, of all the militaries you could merge with, why pick the only one on the planet that's currently committing genocide? I mean, it does seem grotesque, of all the militaries on the planet.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:34Tucker Carlson?

  So it does seem like this changes the dynamic between the United States and Israel completely were it to become law. Because as it presently stands, the United States is Israel's benefactor. Israel can't fight seven wars, or whatever, how many fronts they have, at any given time without the United States paying for most of it, which we do. And so we can withdraw the support and thereby control, at least theoretically, control of Israel's behavior. We never have, but we could. This would, if it becomes law, integrate the militaries to such an extent that the United States would actually be at the mercy of Israel. So Israel withdraws technology and the United States' military is hamstrung. So it would actually put Israel in the driver's seat.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  That's right. 100% correct. And as such, it's adverse to the national security interests of the United States of America. We cannot be in a situation where there's no oversight. Congress is out of the picture once this thing passes.

• 6:40Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean? How?

• 6:41Speaker 02

  What it means is that this is run in the Defense Department with a coordinator, and that, just like the daily business of the Department of Defense moves on, this becomes part of the daily business. It's integration, it's coordination.

• 6:57Tucker Carlson?

  So no more votes?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  No, not on these matters, no. And even more important is this. The National Defense Authorization Act authorizes $1.5 trillion annually. 80% of the discretionary budget of the United States of America is now going for military. I mean, that's horrific to begin with.

• 7:27Tucker Carlson?

  80% of America's discretionary budget? Total discretionary budget is going to the military?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  The discretionary budget of the United States of America is about $1.9 trillion. You know, we can spend money on education, we can spend money on healthcare, we can spend money on food nutrition programs.

• 7:44Tucker Carlson?

  Infrastructure?

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Infrastructure, yes. Or, we can choose to spend money on the military. And President Trump has made his own case that, well, you know, we've got to protect our country, but there's questions as to whether this is in our national security interest. And $1.5 trillion annually, that is a 67% increase over the previous year. The budget was $900 billion, now it's $1.5 trillion. Think of that increase of $600 billion in one year. Plus, we now have a Department of War. Plus, Israel would then have access, not just to the $4 billion that we give them in military

• 8:29Speaker 02

  assistance, they have access to the whole Magellan, to everything. We will be opening up the possibility of Israel having influence over a $1.5 trillion annual budget.

• 8:45Tucker Carlson?

  I feel sick hearing this. First of all, we just lost a war with Iran, with Iran.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:52Tucker Carlson?

  Which has an economy, you know, the size of an American state. Okay, so you would think at that point, someone would say, let's not continue feeding a system that is failing. Let's stop and assess where the money went the first time before we, you know, up the budget. Right? I mean, clearly what we're doing is working.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Do a thing.

• 9:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Do a thing.

• 9:17Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. And this would give Israel influence over that entire, over 80% of America's discretionary spending.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Again, let's, let's look at, you know, counter drones, anti-tunneling, directed energy, AI, autonomous weapons, cyber technology, electronic warfare. The national security architecture of the future. The future. Here it is. You know, we're going to share it. Really? And also, you have to remember that Israel was a conduit for taking technology from Americans, sending it to China. There's no guarantees in this agreement that they can't.

• 10:02Tucker Carlson?

  And the Soviet Union.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:04Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, Jonathan Pollard's secrets, which he stole from the United States military, from the Navy, wound up in the hands of our arch-rivals, the Soviets, because Israel gave it to them.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Well, you don't have to spy or steal if everything's open and you're right at the, you have a seat at the table, do you? And, you know, this is, and then, as you pointed out earlier, Tucker, ethnic cleansing, genocide, these are partners. Because we're not just, you know, taking in their IDF, let's say, we're taking in the values that we've seen demonstrated, or a lack of values on, you know, moral law, international law.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  How do we, what does this say about us as a country? If we want this kind of a partnership in, in the largest expenditures of US tax dollars of any single area in terms of, especially with respect to our defense.

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• 12:25Speaker 03

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• 13:07Speaker 03

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• 13:18Speaker 04

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• 14:18Tucker Carlson?

  Tucker. I think the majority of Americans agree with you. I think the polling shows that. Attitudes on Israel are changing dramatically because of Israeli, because of the fact they're committing genocide. That tends to lower your approval rating. But this vote would, as you said, be the last vote. So Congress wouldn't have to be on the record supporting Israel after this vote because it would all be handled by the Pentagon Procurement Office.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  That's right. And the procurement, I mean, it's very significant. So that's why I'm saying there's a limited amount of oversight that occurs then. You have to remember, when I first got to Congress, the inspector general of the Department of Defense said that there was over $1 trillion in accounts that could not be reconciled. That was in 1997. They couldn't keep track of over trillion dollars. Today, it's multiple trillions. You know, it's, they had like 1,100 different accounting systems in the Pentagon. It's engineered to, where money might just disappear.

• 15:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's engineered to evade oversight. There's no way to even know what's happening.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, right now, right now, right now it is. So this time, if, if, if we bring Israel into the picture and create this merger at the top of the most sensitive...

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Aspects of our national security, our national defense. Where's that going to go? So, you know, you're merging, you're integrating, you're eliminating duplication in the context of a country that's involved in genocide and ethnic cleansing. So what do they gain from this? They gain weapons endurance, okay? Because they get these weapons system which they may not have access to right now. They'll have intelligence depth that they don't have right now. They'll have AI targeting capacity that they may or may not have right now. They will, there's no diplomatic deterrence, right? I mean, because the game's going to be led by the Department of Defense.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  The Department of State is going to be further diminished by this, for sure. You have, you know, the...

• 16:36Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, can I just ask, what about, you know, the Secretary of War, the Secretary of State, Cabinet Secretaries, House and Senate leaders, everyone in the White House, like, they're all on board with giving a foreign country control over our military?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Who knows who's on board? It's in the legislation now, and they vote for it, it's law. This entangles our military in whatever Israel chooses to do. They want to go to war against Egypt, they want to go to war against Turkey as part of this Zionist expansion. Hey, we're pulled right along, well then our country then becomes a target. Our country then becomes vulnerable, based on anything Israel chooses to do, because we are partners then. And we have no control over that. We don't have any control over what they'll do. That's like a fantastic thinking, that we can bring them into the military and all of a sudden we're going to control them? No, the way you control them is to keep the IDF at bay and try to work out some kind

• 17:38Speaker 02

  of diplomatic relations which really aren't working out right now, because otherwise why would you have so many dead people in Palestine and in Lebanon? There is no diplomacy going on, it's basically a license to kill that Israel has.

• 17:52Tucker Carlson?

  Paid for by us.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 17:54Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just go back, I have too many questions, to your description of the US defense budget as 80% of discretionary spending, which I didn't know, which is like, hard to believe. The United States is prosperous largely because it's isolated from threats by the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans. Basically, the United States, the threats that it faces were going to come from Canada or Mexico, really. And those are, you know, not existential at the moment. So, why would the United States spend 80% of its discretionary budget on defense? That's crazy.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Well, it undermines, I think, the constitutional imperative of the United States. We, the people of the United States, you know, it laid out certain purposes of governance. Provide for the common defense, but that wasn't the only thing, okay? Promote the general welfare. Ensure the blessings of liberty. We're moving away from that. If it all becomes about defense, what happens? And what is happening now, there's specific things that have happened. We've seen healthcare.

• 19:12Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just correct you and say it's not defense anymore, it's war? It's not the Department of Defense, it's the Department of War.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Thank you, because, I mean, that's right.

• 19:21Tucker Carlson?

  Because if it's about defense, the United States is defended by geography mostly. It's defended by oceans, by its lack of physical proximity to people who hate it. So like, we're pretty safe, always have been, probably the safest country in the world. But that's, but it's not about defense, it's about war.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  And because it's more about war than ever, how do you measure that? You measure that by how much money you allocate. Again, $900 billion.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Were allocated in 2000 for the 2026 Department of Defense, now War. This year, 1.5 trillion dollars, and it constitutes 80% of discretionary spending. So what's happened? We've seen cuts in healthcare. They've cut back administration of the Affordable Care Act. They've cut back, uh, the CDC lost about three, three and a half billion dollars. Uh, the, um, education has just been wrecked, the kind of benefits that were out there. Uh, in the Education Department, we, we saw the work-study program. I, I took a work-study program when I was just starting my college career.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  I worked at the Plain Dealer in Cleveland for a while and worked, uh, and, and went to Cleveland State. They cut this funding 90%. So all these young people who want to, you know, who want to get educational experience and work at the same time, they're not going to be able to do that. There's programs that affect, uh, uh, the poor, uh, that would enable young people to reach up and get an education that they've cut. Uh, their specialized education funds, they cut out the whole divisions. There's a lot of, uh, uh, programs that have been cut in education. They've cut job training programs, Tucker. And all this, uh, goes, you know, by, I think it was job training is about 3.7 billion they've cut from that.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  They've cut nutrition program, you know, feeding people, feeding the food stamp program, which, you know, largely has kept a lot of Americans fed. They've cut that by about 6.3 billion. And then with that, there's reductions in the women's and infant children's nutrition programs. What are we becoming as a nation when we arm ourselves to the teeth, inevitably benefiting all these defense contractors, and leave the American people defenseless at home, defenseless against poverty, defenseless against ill health, defenseless against being ill-educated? That's the real strength of our country. We're letting that go.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  And so my, my sense is that it's, it's bad enough that 1.5 trillion is going to go primarily to these arms manufacturers, okay? Because, because those are capital-intensive expenditures.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  And at the same time, here comes Israel, right inside the Department of Defense at the most sensitive technological areas, most sensitive security issues, and they're right there helping to direct what America does.

• 22:35Tucker Carlson?

  At exactly the moment when the American public has made it very clear we don't want this.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Right.

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• 23:57Speaker 00

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• 24:26Speaker 05

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• 24:56Speaker 02

  Anywhere else.

• 24:57Tucker Carlson?

  So it's like, it's hard to imagine a less democratic, more authoritarian response to public opinion polling. It's like, your job, you served in Congress. Your job is to represent the people who put you there.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:10Tucker Carlson?

  So you look at the opinion polling and you say, you see, people don't want this.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:15Tucker Carlson?

  And so that's the first thing you do, something they don't want? Like, how is that a real system? How is that representative government?

• 25:22Speaker 02

  It's not. It reflects a level of control that already exists. I mean, let's be clear, you know, this objection that is being raised here is cognizant of the fact that we've had a relationship that goes back at least to 1948, you know, to 1948, and then going forward from there, and more recently. You know, Israel sought to their advantage to encourage the United States to go to war against Iraq. I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu sat in front of me in a government oversight committee and articulated reasons in September of 2002 why the United States should go to war against Iraq. And he also said, I asked him, who else would you attack?

• 26:05Speaker 02

  And he said Iran and Libya in committee. You can go to the internet and find that. This, there's a different imperative that Netanyahu has than what our aspirations are for our country. The people of Israel have to make their own decisions, but they cannot decide for us. We have to have autonomy here. We have to have sovereignty. And I fear for the future of our country. If we bring in, you know, these, this genocidal group that has shown no compunction about murdering children, shooting them in the head and the chest, laughing about it, celebrating their dominance over defenseless people.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  It goes beyond being heartbreaking. It's insane. And we need to push back. People should be calling their congressmen and saying, "Do not vote for this bill." You know, force an amendment to be made to take it out, take that provision out of the bill, and if they won't do it, vote against the bill. I mean, I would vote against the bill anyway. I voted against almost every single expenditure for these kinds of things when I was in Congress, Tucker, because I knew it was a scam. I knew the people of the United States were getting hosed by these defense contractors, and it became a racket. You know, as Smedley Butler said it years ago, "War's a racket." So this is a racket. We got pulled into one war after another we didn't have to be in,

• 27:34Speaker 02

  and Israel was coaxing it all along. And the Middle East region is going to end up in a worse conflagration if they come inside, because they'll be leading the dance when it comes to making strategic decisions in that region. That's just, it's happening right now. They have that kind of influence. But this locks it in. This is formal. This is the law. And what happens to our country? My concerns about America, I don't, you know, I consider myself a citizen of the world, but I am an American, and I don't want anybody trying to influence our country to do one thing or another. We make our own decisions here. Not anymore, though. Israel has too much influence already. And through AIPAC and other groups, they have engaged in a kind of subterfuge over what the interests

• 28:19Speaker 02

  of the American people are. And it's not in our interest to be merging a military with a military that presents a clear and present danger to our own country. I don't want to hold hands with somebody who has blood on their hands.

• 28:35Tucker Carlson?

  No. I think all people are capable of evil. I certainly am, and I think all of us are capable of genocide. I believe that, because I know what human nature is. But there's only one country committing it right now. I mean, we don't need to guess, is the Israeli government evil? Yes. I mean, obviously. Murdering children is evil, no matter who does it, period. They don't get a pass. It's a universal standard. So the idea that we would merge with that of all militaries...

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Well, again, I agree with that, Tucker. And, you know, my...

• 29:12Speaker 02

  I wouldn't want to merge with any military. I don't even like NATO for that matter.

• 29:16Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Because I don't want anybody acting and trying to drag us into conflicts. You know, our founders warned, beware of foreign entanglements.

• 29:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  We were warned about that. And they had the vision to understand that the United States needed to protect its independence, to protect its sovereignty by not getting drawn into conflicts in other countries on behalf of other nations, not on behalf of ourselves. You know, I'm for defending our country, but now where we're at is that we're on the threshold of forever wars. I don't think Donald Trump went into office with the idea that, you know, we're going to have more wars. He promised we don't, you know, no more wars. He made that promise, but he couldn't keep that promise because of the influence of this particular group. And that's really sad.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  It's really sad.

• 30:14Tucker Carlson?

  I saw it firsthand. It's the saddest thing I've ever seen in public, in public life, for sure. Who are the people pushing this?

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it's very interesting. There was an iteration of this bill that was introduced into Congress by two members. Didn't get much attention, but this was folded into the bill. Nobody knows who put it in. That's number one. Number two, no hearings on this part alone. There's been no hearings, no real discussions about it. I mean, you and I could talk for an hour or so easy on this. There's, between us, there's more discussion that's occurred on this bill than any place in DC, by far. They don't want to talk about it. They just want to quietly slip this provision into a bill without debate.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Remember, they shut off any hope in the Rules Committee of a debate over an amendment by Tom Massey and Ro Khanna. They had an amendment up. They, they didn't even include it in the list of amendments that would be made in order when they go to the floor. There was no debate in the committee. Over this, and so, you know, when it gets to the floor, then there can't be, there won't be any debate over this provision, you know, unless somebody gets up and says, well, this provision, but there won't be an effort, an amendment to strike it is not in order. So it stays in the bill. People have to understand, this is being engineered quietly, but no more, hello, to try to just slip it in, make it a accomplished thing,

• 31:50Speaker 02

  and then, all of a sudden, here we are. And, and the thing that

• 31:53Tucker Carlson?

  And we don't know who pushed it?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Well, we know whose idea it was, Benjamin Netanyahu. He's taking credit for this.

• 32:03Tucker Carlson?

  He has?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's his idea. Yeah, this, this, and, and why would Netanyahu want this? Because Israel is going to have every possible advantage they could possibly have in terms of weapons enhancement and AI targeting and lower operating costs, right? You get to offload your operating costs down to the US. They can entangle the US into things. All of a sudden, you want to fight me, buddy? Here's me, buddy, you know, and you're off to the next war.

• 32:42Tucker Carlson?

  Without the Congress ever debating it, no one going on the record to support it, it would just, all of a sudden, become part of the system. It's embedded in the way the US government operates. It, they just can effectively control 80% of our

• 32:57Speaker 02

  No committee hearings, no debate, in the bill, there you have it. One of the most serious changes in American sovereignty in the history of our country would occur without any debate at all. It just folded into a bill that's probably close to 1,000 pages.

• 33:18Tucker Carlson?

  Could this happen soon?

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Well, here's what's going to happen. Congress comes back on July the 13th. The Rules Committee will try to meet again. The reason why it didn't get voted on this last time is there was a dispute. The White House wanted the SAVE Act that deals with curtailing certain voter registration privileges. They wanted the SAVE Act folded into the National Defense Act. And so they pushed the House leadership to combine that. And in order to make that happen, the House has to first pass a rule. Every bill can have its own rule.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  It's like, what are the rules of debate for this particular bill, this piece of paper? So they create the rule. And the rule said, you know, it did not include that amendment that would amend out this, Section 219. But what it did do, it's combined the SAVE Act and the NDAA, so it gets...

• 34:23Tucker Carlson?

  You don't get voter ID unless you hand the military to Israel.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  No, that's an interesting reduction.

• 34:30Tucker Carlson?

  Well, everything's a reduction in politics. But they can make that case.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  That's interesting. But let me just say that it didn't... The rule was voted against because 14 Republican members didn't like the way the thing was set up. So the rule went down, which meant they couldn't get to the bill. So there was no vote, you know, a week or so ago. So they go back to the drawing board. They'll go back to the Rules Committee and come up with a rule. Will they include an amendment that could be voted on to determine whether or not Israel and the US military should merge? I doubt it. It'll go to the floor again. So people are going to be faced with an up or down vote. That would be my guess. It's a guess. An up or down vote on the bill itself.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  I mean, I'd recommend voting against it and keep voting against it until they take that provision out.

• 35:24Tucker Carlson?

  But that could pass this month.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 35:32Tucker Carlson?

  How do you stop it?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Well, votes. I mean, people have-

• 35:35Tucker Carlson?

  But if you're not in Congress, we just, I mean-

• 35:38Speaker 02

  People have to call- this is where, we're not helpless, you know, people or voters who, you know, and we're watching this from across the country. Call your congressman or congresswoman and say, "Look, we don't want to merge the military. Vote against the bill, or take it out of the bill." That's it. I mean, it's, you know, as I said, I wouldn't vote for this bill anyway because of how it vitiates, uh-

• 36:05Tucker Carlson?

  But it's treason. It's literally treason. You're handing your government to a foreign government against the will of your own people who pay for everything. I mean, my view is if there was ever a justification for shutting down Washington, it's this. And yet, it doesn't seem like there's any way to stop it. Call your congressman, does that matter?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Sometimes, yeah, sure. I mean, if the people get enough calls, they get nervous. And when they start getting nervous and there's a slippage in votes, yeah, I mean, it can make a difference, absolutely. Sure, it can make a difference. Now, uh, you know, given AIPAC's influence, will it make a difference? I don't know, but I'll-

• 36:45Tucker Carlson?

  But you won't need AIPAC after this?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  No. I mean, well, I mean, one would-

• 36:51Tucker Carlson?

  Too humiliating control and all that, I get it, but like, as a practical matter, it's done-

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Well, wait, wait a minute, this is interesting. There are people who are now talking about, "Well, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna cut, uh, we won't give Israeli military funding." They don't need any military funding, they're in the inside now. They can direct the expenditures of, of up, of over a trillion dollars. What do they, what do they need a, a tip of four billion for when they can have influence over 1.5 trillion? Watch that. You'll, you'll encounter people who will tell you, "Oh, we're gonna eliminate the military spending to Israel." Really? And you're gonna bring them into the decision-making position in the Department of Defense for the most sophisticated spending that exists for the future national security and future,

• 37:42Speaker 02

  future, uh, uh, defense of the United States of America. Whoa.

• 37:47Tucker Carlson?

  Well, a lot of organizations talk about supporting veterans, but not all of them actually do it, not even close. And that's why we only partner with companies we know are telling the truth and really working earnestly to make a difference. Black Rifle Coffee is one of them. We've been partners with them for years. We know them. Black Rifle supports good-hearted American philanthropies like Boot Campaign. For years, Boot Campaign has provided individualized care for veterans and military families dealing with the wounds of foreign wars, PTSD, chronic pain, traumatic brain injuries. When you get your coffee from Black Rifle, which we do because it's delicious, you help keep missions like Boot Campaigns alive. Caring for American heroes does not stop when they leave the military. That's why companies like Black Rifle and groups like Boot Campaign are vital. To help

• 38:31Tucker Carlson?

  today, visit bootcampaign.org. Bootcampaign.org. So that's why you see these Israelis and their agents in the United States saying on television, you know, maybe we should stop taking military aid from the United States.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  There you are. There you have it.

• 38:51Tucker Carlson?

  The lying is just, I, it's like every word is a lie.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  It's called Hasbro, right?

• 38:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, it's, yeah, you know, what does the poet say, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." And there's deception everywhere here. And they're trying to deceive the American people as to where their interests lie. But when we keep seeing more and more of the resource of the United States going for wars, and then we get the countries that's committing genocide and ethnic cleansing, bring them into the top echelons of decision-making in the Department of Defense on a formal agreement, Tucker, that would, that would affect a merger. Now, people are saying, "It's not a merger." Well, okay, integration, eliminate duplication, it is a merger. You can call it what you

• 39:40Speaker 02

  want, but they're going to be sitting there making decisions. And another thing is, it's going to affect defense, not just production, where things are made, but Israel, you know, we've had Buy America provisions in our contracting.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  This legislation, I think, would enable Israel to preempt those buy America provisions. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's just going to cost the US jobs, too. I mean, that's another thing. That's another argument.

• 40:10Tucker Carlson?

  So typically, when the US government buys equipment for the US military, it is generally from American suppliers.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Generally, not always, but generally.

• 40:19Tucker Carlson?

  Right, but the idea is, the concept is, you should buy from America.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  You buy from your own.

• 40:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. But this would allow purchases from Israel, basically, to count as purchases from America, because they're...

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Right, it's a procurement thing. You know, the procurement becomes a fact of life that we'll be procuring more and more from Israel, and Israel will be able to set up production in the US. This is really crazy. I mean, we do not... This is such a giveaway on so many different things. You use the word treason.

• 40:56Tucker Carlson?

  It is treason, and everyone involved in it should be charged.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that won't happen, but, you know, it's true. And I just, you know, so it's not lost on any of us. A day doesn't go by where I don't think about the people in Gaza and the West Bank and South Lebanon, and what they're living through, their children being killed right in front of them, their whole families being blown up in some cases, journalists killed, healthcare workers murdered, ambulance drivers murdered, double, triple tap to cynically just kill everything and everybody, drones flying everywhere. How in the world can anybody with a heart look at this and say, "Well, you know, it's okay,

• 41:41Speaker 02

  that's happening over there"? No, no. If you're a witness, you have to take some responsibility for that morally.

• 41:49Tucker Carlson?

  And you're the funder of it, which we are.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  We are the funders, but we, the American people, are witnesses, and it's time to say, "Look..."

• 42:02Speaker 02

  We cannot support this. We should really be standing up and defending the people of Palestine against these attacks. That's my feeling. We cannot be in a position where we're seeing hundreds of thousands of people killed. For what? For some fake interpretation of the Bible? That somebody says, "Listen, my land, this is my home, this is my property." Really? Really? Somebody knocks on your door and says, "Give me your house?" In America, we'd go bonkers over that. We'd say, "You can't do that. Get out of here." That's what's happening every day. And it's happening in South Lebanon. Now settlers are coming in and are protected by the IDF.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  The IDF has demonstrated itself to be just a group of psychopathic killers. I mean, you can't call it anything else.

• 42:55Tucker Carlson?

  No, you can't.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  And so, the question though isn't who they are, it's who are we as Americans? What do we stand for? We just celebrated our 250th anniversary of our independence. And we need to regain our independence. We need to regain what it really means to be an American. We'll help anybody around the world. We've got big hearts as Americans. But we also need to stand up for the abuse of the resources that we give to another countries that are being used to kill people and kill them en masse.

• 43:29Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's just been so corrupting. It's been so corrupting of the United States, corrupting of Christianity to see, you know, good people, ministers, get up and defend genocide? As if Jesus is in favor of killing kids? It's been corrupting of politics, the conservative movement, which I don't, doesn't obviously exist anymore, but I've been a part of it for, you know, 40 years. And one of the basic foundational ideas was property rights. Property rights. They lecture you for hours. I've given those lectures. Property rights, it's the basis of liberty and of a functioning economic system. And then all of a sudden they're supporting stealing people's lands because...

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Stealing.

• 44:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, actually. And then killing anyone who gets in the way? What about property rights? I thought we were for property rights. Free speech? The foundational freedom of this country, all of a sudden you're not allowed to criticize a foreign country, you can't boycott a foreign country, it's illegal. It's like, it's totally corrupting of who we are. That's my problem with it. I don't think Israel's uniquely evil. I think everybody is evil in his heart, of course, I'm a Christian, of course I believe that. But this, what they're doing is evil, completely. There's no euphemism that describes it more precisely than that. And, and we become evil when we participate in it. Like, what the hell?

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's exactly.

• 44:48Tucker Carlson?

  So, what is the motive? So, you served in the Congress, you got there 30 years ago, you know a lot about the Congress. What would inspire a lawmaker to get on board with this?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  I, you know, look, you have to go back to the Holocaust, you really do. I mean, in order to understand the thinking about, about Israel. The Jewish people suffered horribly.

• 45:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  In the Holocaust. It is a level of cruelty that the world could not have imagined prior to that.

• 45:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  And so there, Israel began with a, you know, great deal of sympathy that people had, but then as you start to...

• 45:35Tucker Carlson?

  Including from me, by the way.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, and from myself, you know. But as you unwind the history and you see that where the Balfour Declaration went, and how in 1948, that the founding of the State of Israel was not supposed to mean the subjugation of, of the Arabs, of the Palestinians. There was somehow supposed to be an agreement, worked out, it was, you know, airy-fairy in some ways. But what's happened is that there's been a murderous oppression of Palestinians that goes back generations now. And so Israel evolved into something that...

• 46:23Speaker 02

  That was, that no one, I think, counted on, at least except the Zionists, maybe, who believe that we have a greater destiny and it's not just this land, but as a chosen people, we are going further and beyond it. And that's unfortunate, because what they've done, Zionism has hijacked Judaism. My life has been guided by people who happen to have been Jewish. And I think that's true of a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, greatly influenced. And when you understand the meaning of charity, of caring, of giving, throughout my life,

• 47:07Speaker 02

  I've always associated that with people who happen to be Jewish, you know? I've seen that. I've experienced it. I have experienced it also. But then, but then, when you, when you take Zionism and a particular virulent strain of Zionism as is practiced by people like Ministers Smotrich and Ben Gavir, as well as Netanyahu, it has created such sorus, if you could call it that, for people who happen to be Jewish in this country and worldwide.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  And it's not, that's not what, you know, what many of us understood Judaism to be about, and it still isn't, but Zionism has hijacked that. And in service of a political agenda, they've basically jettisoned spiritual principles that, in my view, were always about what's called "Takun Olam," the healing of the world. That's a, that's a principle that comes from Judaism, Takun Olam, heal the world. So it's no, not destroy the world, heal the world. And so it's heartbreaking, really. And we're looking at an immense human tragedy here.

• 48:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that's just beginning, because everyone who committed genocide, or supported, or excused it, or denied it, the genocide deniers, and there are many in the United States, they're all going to suffer. And I feel bad for them. Some of them I like personally, but they're all going to suffer because there's justice. And if you got behind the genocide in Gaza, you're going to suffer for that. So I feel sorry for them.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, you know, again, I call it a great human tragedy, but here we are, just after we celebrated our independence, 250 years. How do we remain independent? And this proposal to merge, integrate the US and the Israeli military is a direct attack on American independence, a direct attack on American sovereignty, a direct attack on the United States Constitution, which keeps us sovereign. I'm concerned. You know,

• 49:33Speaker 02

  these, how drones are hunting people in Gaza, and West Bank, and even South Lebanon now? That's going to come home. Does anyone think that if we, if we enrich this partnership with Israel formally, that we're not going to be seeing these drones that are patrolling the United States?

• 49:59Tucker Carlson?

  Of course we are.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  That's, I mean,

• 50:00Tucker Carlson?

  Soon.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Well, this is, you know, we're looking at dystopia here. We're looking at Minority Report, another version. Who are, again, ask the question, who are we as a nation? I want to reclaim what it means to be an American. I want to reclaim what it means to be free, to be independent, to be sovereign, to be able to make our decisions without any undue influence from any other country in the world. And

• 50:27Speaker 02

  And certainly not to be holding hands with people that are genocidal, with genocidal intent. So, you know, this is ultimately about freedom. Our whole experience, our constitutional experience about freedom. We've seen our freedom of speech undermined in the last few years. College campuses notably, okay? You can't criticize a certain group because if you do, you could lose your scholarships, you could get expelled. You can't protest on college campuses, which were the cradle of the rebellion against the war in Vietnam, okay? The Fourth Amendment, you know, the idea that Americans can be free in their homes from unreasonable search and seizure, the idea that, you look at ICE and how they've

• 51:11Speaker 02

  moved in to just, you know, knock down doors. We're seeing our basic constitutional liberties undermined here in this country right now. We're celebrating the Fourth of July, but, you know, our liberties can't go up like in the smoke of a disappearing firework. We really have to look at each and every area where our liberty is under attack and our freedom is under attack, and it is under attack with this proposal to merge the US and the Israeli military.

• 51:44Tucker Carlson?

  But if you're a member of Congress, what are you thinking? Why would you sign on to this?

• 51:48Speaker 02

  What's a constitution among friends?

• 51:52Tucker Carlson?

  But you know that every public appearance that you have, every town hall that you do, you're going to get asked about this. People are getting pretty radically anti-Israel, way more than I am. I feel like I'm pretty moderate compared to the public on this question all of a sudden. And you're going to have to live with that, but you're doing it anyway?

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Well, look, politically, it's hard to figure out. One does not need to be anti-Israel. We need to be pro-human.

• 52:21Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Pro-peace.

• 52:23Tucker Carlson?

  Pro-America.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Pro-America, yeah. Really, I mean, this thing about America first, that's okay with me. That doesn't mean we're not citizens of the world, but we have an obligation to take care of our own people. Tucker, you know, I'm in Cleveland, I see people begging for food at freeway exits.

• 52:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I do too.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Some of them are veterans.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  What are we doing with our country here? So, you know, this debate over this section in the National Defense Authorization Act really provides an opportunity for a deeper reflection about who we are as Americans. What do we stand for? Where are we going as a country? Where do we want to go as a country? How do we avoid future wars? How do we avoid wars that could end at all? You know, it wasn't too long ago that Joe Biden was rattling sabers against Russia.

• 53:15Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  And now we're seeing, you know, more attacks on Russia. We could see another war, but if we're not...

• 53:21Tucker Carlson?

  Easily. Easily. We could see a real war with Russia soon.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  But we need, so we need to pay attention to what our government's doing and demand that we stop these wars and demand that we not bring in the one country that's hell-bent on war everywhere they turn in order to feel protected. I mean, what a paradox.

• 53:46Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  That you're protected by killing more people.

• 53:49Tucker Carlson?

  Netanyahu is destroying Israel and, if allowed, I think, and not just his coalition of religious extremists. He was on Fox today, on Fox News, which shamefully gives him a platform at every opportunity, saying, "We need to go fight Turkey, our NATO ally, to whom we're bound by treaty. We have to have a war with Turkey now."

• 54:13Speaker 02

  You said that this morning. I didn't... Well, see, that's what, you know, that's why when I look at this agreement, it is about war with Turkey. It's a war with Egypt. It's about war, war, war. On our dime, their policy. No, stop it. America, remember who you are. You weren't, you know, you, we are supposed to be that shining city on a hill. We're supposed to be the unfolding of a patriotic dream. We're supposed to be the country that is the beacon for the entire world, you know, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  We need to reconnect with what it means, the deeper meaning of what it means to be an American, that this journey that began 250 years ago that gave America this ability to adapt to and dream their future. We need to reconnect with this, with this advancing tide of creativity and freedom and democracy and let, and really let freedom ring, really let it ring. But we're not, we're not there right now. We're in a different space. And we need to, we need to begin anew to challenge any effort that, that, that would attack our sovereignty, undermine our independence.

• 55:35Tucker Carlson?

  You just saw a number of Democrats lose in primaries on the question of support for Israel. So it's such a cliche, I hate even to use the word, but it's toxic among Democratic voters.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 55:48Tucker Carlson?

  Toxic. And good for them, by the way. It should be toxic. It's totally unacceptable. You're pro-Nazi? No, you're not allowed to be pro-Nazi. Well, you can't be for the genocide in Gaza. I mean, I don't, don't see the difference. But, um, how can Democrats vote for this?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  I think a number of them will vote against it, but some of them with some difficulty. And this we're talking about is this proposal to merge the militaries of Israel and the United States. Yeah, it should be an easy vote for many members of Congress. But they're not going to get a chance to vote on just that because it's folded into a thousand-page bill. So what you have is a circumstance where, you know, most members will know this is in the bill. There's been enough commotion about it. How can they vote for it? Because

• 56:45Speaker 02

  they'll say, well, you know, I voted so that our district could get X number of dollars for this defense contractor, which is providing hundreds of jobs in our district. That, that's the logic, okay?

• 56:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. There's a logic there.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, you, you, you need to understand, and people need to understand, your, your, many viewers need to understand. That every single member of Congress has a defense contractor in the district. And these contractors, in order to pass the bill, they go and visit the member of Congress and they say, "Look, you know, we make this this material for the Department of Defense, and we need you to vote for this so that our area can have these jobs." And some of them may have been around a while, some of these, you know, businesses. So the member is moved by people from the district who want them to support this program,

• 57:46Speaker 02

  which may be millions of dollars, including a $1.5 trillion bill. So members have a motivation to vote for it. Now, I didn't vote for it because I knew it was going to go for war, and I'm opposed to that. But members have jobs at stake, so they want to vote for the bill. That's how that happens. Lobbyists are there from the district. So then you put this provision in the bill, which is really a poison pill, if you want to call it that, and members then have to look, "Well, do I, how am I going to vote?" Because they'll be attacked if they vote against something for their district, right? This is a diabolical construction that's occurring here legislatively.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  You put a bill to defend the country, which is excessive to the nth degree, and you fold into it this proposal for a merger. You know, members are going to be hard-pressed with a vote on this. But the ultimate issue is, if you give up sovereignty, if you give up independence, that is the overarching concern, not where does this money go? Because once you give up what it means to be an American and to be able to make your own decisions, everything else doesn't matter.

• 59:09Tucker Carlson?

  Who thought up this system where you don't vote on specific legislation or issues, but you wrap all these different notions into 1,000-page bill and vote up or down on it?

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. Well, you know, from that came the aphorism, "Never ask how laws or sausage are made."

• 59:31Tucker Carlson?

  But that seems designed to hurt the country and to make a mockery of the legislative process.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  Well, the way the bill is crafted, you know, groups of people get together, various interest groups, they go to the committee, they give their ideas of what they want, and a bill is produced. And somebody came in with this thing, "Ah, let's put this merger in."

• 59:55Tucker Carlson?

  But why not just vote on that? Why not just vote on

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 59:59Tucker Carlson?

  changes to voter registration, or ID requirements, or

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:03Tucker Carlson?

  what weapon system we should fund?

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  And they're supposed to. They're supposed to, except the rule permits them to do it. They change the rules. The rules are always there to be changed. So they change, you know, there's a rule against legislating on an appropriation.

• 1:00:17Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter. You can have a rule that says all points of order are waived. So nobody can get up, "Mr. Chairman, point of order." No, it's not happening. So, you know, this, this system, people are going to start to pay a little bit more attention to a system which is serving a very small group of people at the expense of everyone else. And right now, it's, it's not working for the people of the United States of America. And it hasn't. It doesn't matter if someone's a Democrat, Republican, who's in the White House. That system has a specific gravity and a specific momentum that keeps moving forward

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  inexorably to replicate itself.

• 1:01:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Okay? It just keeps going.

• 1:01:09Tucker Carlson?

  Nicely put. That's right.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  And that's what, what happens. And that's why, once something like this merger's in the bill... Forget about it. This is just going to keep going and going. They'll develop data integration. That's another big thing. That's a merger, data integration. You know, so we're going to be operating out of the same fundamental math of what it means to operate the nation's defense. Wow. You know, that's how dangerous this is, Tucker.

• 1:01:37Tucker Carlson?

  So there's kind of no disentangling at that point without hurting the US military?

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. It is the ultimate entanglement that we've been warned against. It's an entanglement and the most granular details in every sophisticated area of defense of our country, of the future, national security policies of the United States of America. We are becoming entangled to the nth degree. And as a result, our nation and our sovereignty is at risk.

• 1:02:12Tucker Carlson?

  Have you seen anyone defend this explicitly?

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  No. That's interesting. It's an interesting question. If you find somebody, it'd be great to have that person on your show so that you could ask them about the benefits.

• 1:02:25Tucker Carlson?

  They'll just scream about antisemitism and refuse to come on. I've tried.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Well, you know, we understand that antisemitism has become a canard. It lacks meaning anymore where it's just being used to try to deflect attention to something that's going on that's beneath the dignity of human beings.

• 1:02:43Tucker Carlson?

  I've noticed. Yeah, I've noticed. Do you think there's any chance the president would veto this?

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  It's an interesting question because, you know, Netanyahu has basically discounted the authority of the President of the United States. He's done that when President Trump was trying to end this war against Iran that was started at the behest of Netanyahu. And what did he need? One of the things he needed was for Israel to stop attacking South Lebanon. That was one of the conditions that Iran asked for. Didn't happen. And Netanyahu publicly defied the President of the United States, as if he, as head of

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  a nation of nine, 10 million people, is superior to a man who's head of a nation of 340 million people. I mean, this is, you know, you have to look at this. This is so weird that Israel could be actually jeopardizing an agreement that would end a war that has resulted in not just 168 children being killed, and the leader of Iran, whose funeral is still ongoing, right now, as we speak, but also had a devastating effect on our economy. You know, that war's gonna cost, just that war's gonna cost about a trillion dollars. Taxpayers.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  You know, most of it'll go to national debt, which is, you know, a whole nother story, because the more debt we're in, the more vulnerable we are, because we've got to make the interest payments, and that means we have less money to take care of things we need right now. Yeah, America's in a trap right now. You know, we dug ourselves a hole. And the only difference between a hole and a grave is in the dimensions. And I don't want to have this merger lead America to its own destruction. And we're not in good shape right now. And when the President of the United States can be told by some guy who's just a hustler, who is trying to finagle his way to another election, you know, through another election, to survive so he doesn't go to jail, I mean, let's be real about this, Netanyahu's facing

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  jail. And so his policies are aimed at keeping himself out of jail. He didn't care about the United States. He sure didn't care about what President Trump wants. All he cares about is staying out of jail and staying in power if he can. And, you know, so what does that mean? Attack South Lebanon. Forget whatever America wants to do in ending the war in Iran. And everyone's going to pay for it. The people are going to pay for it in South Lebanon with their lives. And people around the world are going to pay for it with damage to the world economy. I mean, you know, lives, I'll put that superior to every other concern. But the fact is, there's, we all know about the knock on effects of the, of the blocking

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  of the Strait of Hormuz, or Bab al Mandab, or anything that interferes with the flow of energy is going to cause the price to go up. Americans have experienced that. And we're going to keep experiencing that because the opportunity for peace keeps ebbing away. And we've learned recently that Israel was planning to kill Iran's peace negotiators, right? There's an assassination plot to kill the principal representatives of Iran. Because, you know, it's not in Israel's interest to have peace. They don't know what peace looks like. They think peace is a threat to their existence.

• 1:06:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  And so when you get that kind of an equation, you're going to have forever war. And we bring them into the Department of Defense, we have forever war. This is, you know, what about America? Why aren't we asking, why isn't, why aren't we having discussions about what America's interests are here?

• 1:06:40Tucker Carlson?

  Because that's antisemitic. Nationalism is a moral crime. No, we've been hearing that for 10 years. And I thought Trump would be strong enough to stand up to it, but he turned out to be weak. But it's not just Trump. It's the system itself is, is just not working in any way. How would you fix it?

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Well, we know that if someone becomes president and he is determined to fix the system, drain the swamp, he's gonna run into problems, no matter what his politics are.

• 1:07:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, real problems.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, real problems. Or he could get assassinated.

• 1:07:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  I mean, that, you know, but we have to look at, you know, followed, follow the policy back to whose interests are threatened and would want to kill our leaders. How do you cure it? First of all, it starts with America's international policy. We have to, we have to stop these forever wars. We have to start protecting our economy and rebuild relationships with people so they still use the dollar. Because our, the elasticity in our economy depends on the petrodollar.

• 1:07:56Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  The more people that jettison it, you know, whether we're talking about Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Iran, and others, the less trade that happens in dollars, that is a compounding economic problem for the United States of America. People are getting rid of our treasuries. They're dumping our treasuries, okay? So, higher interest rates, more burden on the US economy. Hey, that relates to our ability to make our own decisions, so that we don't become a vassal of some, of a future IMF or something.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  A president, and has to have a congress, that closes ranks on these issues of sovereignty, on the issues of expenditure. We really are in need of, you know, I come from a discipline of the old FDR, New Deal, rebuild America, rebuild the infrastructure, keep building, building, building, create.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  Teach entrepreneurship, teach people how to create things and make things. We have that capacity, we're not doing it. So, how do we get out of it? It's to stop the wars, first of all. Stop the wars. Stop holding hands with a country who's forever on a warpath. Must stop that. And then, we start to rebuild diplomatic relations with countries, knowing that we can be, we can be friends, but don't, you know, don't try us, but let's try to find a way to work together and use our resources to build, to build, to show that, you know, America can be a friend again, not just a

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  feared foe. We, we need to go back to the basics, which are, you know, education. Public education has fallen apart. We need to give people a chance to have a way of learning so that they can make a contribution to our society. Now personally, I'm for healthcare for all. We shouldn't have these big corporations cashing in on the, on the health misery of the American people. I, I, we should have jobs for all. We should have an opportunity for every person who's able-bodied to be able to, to make a living, make a contribution to society. We need to protect our air and our water. Our water right now ends up being a bargaining chip for, you know, these new data centers. Why should we be sacrificing

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  the water that people need to survive, just to say, "Well, we're going to be smarter because we use more AI"? There's, see, we have, and you know where it all goes back to? You know, here we are in Maine. New England had those town hall meetings from years ago, Norman Rockwell, you know, that painting of the man standing up, freedom of speech, okay? It's, it's, you go back to the town hall, literally, not, not just figuratively on the internet. You go back to the town hall where people are meeting each other and they talk about what they want out of a country. And then you require people who want to be a representative to meet with those groups, and to hear what people have to say about what are their aspirations, what are their dreams for America. You get, it's a rebuilding

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  that has to happen. It has to happen from the neighborhood all the way up, Tucker. We, we have to, we have to... Re-excite our civic soul. We have to learn what it means to be a citizen again in a democracy that we can, or a republic, as I would like to refer to it as. We need to refresh that republic with our own civic involvement. And if we fail to do that, then then America gradually fades away into the pages of history. You know, we're not guaranteed this country. Eternal vigilance truly is the price of liberty. And this is, this discussion today is about being vigilant.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  It's about, it's about understanding at every turn where America's interests might be, might be harmed.

• 1:11:59Tucker Carlson?

  I think the first expression of civic engagement might be national protests against this bill.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  I agree. I agree. People should be going to their town halls and first of all, you know, you can type in section 219 NDAA and get a copy of the bill. You understand what it means. But, you know, this discussion today, we've given, you know, I've given you some content of, of what the specifics are. Because there'll be people arguing specifics and, and what the cost is and what, what Israel has to gain and what America has to lose. And, you know, when you're talking about merging the most sensitive areas and you're talking about giving away American jobs, you're talking about America plus Israeli

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  technology equals genocide now? Well, wait a minute, you know, we, we, and with, with no serious discussion about it and no, no legislative review, this is just going to happen? Sure, people need to. Go to their town halls and start saying, "Stop." But, you know, this is happening. This is on, this thing is an express train. It's coming down the tracks, Tucker. Congress comes back on the 13th of July and they're going to try to grease the wheels to make sure this thing moves through. Who are they? They are the people that are running the government internally and externally to push legislation, not just for 1.5 trillion for more wars, but to make sure we bring Israel

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  into the decision-making process formally in the Department of Defense through this Section 219, which merges the defense capabilities and integrates the defense capabilities and eliminates duplication. You're talking about eliminating duplication. You're together. You're one. You're a single unit, then.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  At some point, we're going to get, because nothing is hidden forever, we're going to find out exactly how many women and children, noncombatants, Israel murdered in Gaza and Lebanon and the West Bank. And public opinion in this country will join the rest of the world in revulsion and horror. And Israel will suffer the same fate that Germany has suffered for 80 years, which is, you know, having to publicly confront what you did. Because all countries have to confront what they do. And I just think anyone who's on board with something like this now, these are like the last moments where you could vote for this with a straight face.

• 1:14:39Tucker Carlson?

  After this, every person who votes for this is going to have to answer for it, in this life and the next.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  I think not only are you correct, Tucker, but the consequences of this are going to be felt for the foreseeable future. And this is really, this is really a moment of truth for America.

• 1:15:08Tucker Carlson?

  You've really added so much to this. Dennis Kucinich, thank you very much, and I hope this makes some small difference.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Thank you, Tucker.

• 1:15:17Tucker Carlson?

  Appreciate it.