Nikki Glaser on Shame, Sex & Owning Who You Are

Comedian Nikki Glaser’s star is on the rise. The two-time host of the Golden Globe Awards is set to take the mic for a third straight year in 2027. Glaser was also just named one of Time magazine’s most influential people of the year. And on Friday, Hulu is releasing her latest hour-long comedy special, “Good Girl.” It’s an exploration of aging, fame, and sexuality in Glaser’s signature raw and self-deprecating style. Kara and Nikki talk about why she thinks it's wrong to shame women who spend money on their appearance and why talking about sex is still a big part of her comedy. They also discuss why she shies away from making political jokes right now and what it’s like to have her breakout moment in her 40s. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you crash in a private plane, no one feels sorry for you. I think it's like we're, that's my biggest fear now. If you were on a Southwest. Yeah, if I'm on Southwest, people will be like, oh, my God, what a woman of the people. What a hero, died so young. People hate people flying on private. They do. Yeah, and this elitist bitch, she deserved it.

• 0:28Kara Swisher?

  Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is comedian Nikki Glaser. She's really having a moment right now. She hosted The Golden Globes this year and last year, and she's set to do it again in 2027. She was just named one of Time Magazine's Most Influential People of the Year, and she's also about to drop a brand-new comedy special on Hulu on Friday. It's called Good Girl, and in it, Nikki jokes about aging, fame, and her sexuality. It's personal, raw, and self-deprecating, which is really Nikki's sweet spot. I really enjoy Nikki Glaser. I think she's incredibly refreshing. I think it's interesting what she talks about, especially going there about her sexuality. And I know there's sort of a take that women talk too much about their sexuality. I think she does it in a really smart way.

• 1:13Kara Swisher?

  And obviously, she's engendered a lot of fans, because she is indeed having a moment. And it's in her 40s, and it's well-deserved after a long career. So let's get to my interview with Nikki. Our expert question comes from director and producer Judd Apatow. Nikki is working on a film with him, and she also used to babysit his kids. This is going to be a really fun one, because Nikki is a lot of fun and very thoughtful, too. So stick around.

• 1:45Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from The Guardian and their new show, Stateside, where journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman use the entire independent reporting resources of The Guardian to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what is actually happening in the world. Join Kai and Carter three times a week as they utilize all the reporting resources The Guardian has across news, international coverage, climate, culture, wellness, and more. And The Guardian's not owned by a billionaire. They fearlessly report the facts without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more. And listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's theguardian.com/stateside.

• 2:29Kara Swisher?

  Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow, none of them ever talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together. From sales and accounting, to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free at Odoo.com/Kara. That's O-D-O-O dot com slash Kara.

• 3:12Speaker 03

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• 3:53Kara Swisher?

  Nikki, thanks for coming on "On."

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

• 4:03Kara Swisher?

  So, let's start with "Good Girl." I'm a huge fan, obviously, many people are. But this is this new special, which comes out this week. It's your fifth one, but you've expressed a lot of fear and anxiety about its release. And you said you don't even want anyone to watch it.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't know. I just, I kind of had this revelation when I was editing it, that... Now that it's like coming out, I guess the editing process is a whole other kind of torturous, you know, self-examination. But now that it's coming out and people are starting to see it, and I was hearing from my publicists, you know, like, we've sent out early copies of it, so people are watching it like today. It was just, yeah, this sense of doom that people are going to see a side of myself that maybe is a little bit more darker than I, I guess my image is now that I've, in the past couple, you know, two or three years, have had a more mainstream image. And there's maybe something in me that wants

• 4:55Speaker 00

  to protect that and to keep that kind of popularity coming in because it's, you know, made my life a lot easier. And I've used this analogy before, but I'll use it again because it's just so apt for it, is that I just feel like, stand-up for me is like sex. Like, I enjoy it. It's something I like to do. It like lets me behave in ways that I would not normally behave, say things and do things that I am otherwise ashamed of doing. And then, when I started doing stand-up, you know, it was just like open-mic nights and just clubs where there was no worry of it being recorded or anyone being able to even, you know, review it. I mean, I never put out clips online or anything. And so it was like, even if people came up to me after the show and quoted me back to myself,

• 5:39Speaker 00

  I could almost deny what I'd said because there was no proof of it. So it was like, this safe space. So it, to me, when I think about my stand-up, it's like, hearing people kind of talk about, you know, if someone after sex were to be like, "Oh, that thing you said," or "That one time you did that thing," you're just like, "No, no, no, no, no!" "We shall not speak of this." I don't want to hear about it. It's just so, it's embarrassing to me. So when people see my special, I kind of change the subject really quickly. I just want kind of, even now, I'm like, "Let's move on to something else." I'm so sorry. This entire podcast is about your comedy. No, no, no. It's, I have to promote it. We can talk about Pete Hegseth, if you'd like. Oh, no, thank you. He just quoted. Yeah, who just quoted Pulp Fiction. What a moron. As a Bible quote, yes. You can't write this stuff. I know, you really can't.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  So, do you get like this with all your specials? I do. I think I just started to explore that feeling because it's, it's, I'm like this with everything I I put out. Not everything, because there's some things that I don't have a problem watching if it's I'm acting or if I'm singing or like any kind of but when I'm I'm being myself. I I have a hard time watching it. I think it's like editing a special is the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done in my life. And honestly, in the past, I've had to delay the releases of specials because I just couldn't watch it and I couldn't I couldn't edit it and I and I'm not someone who pushes deadlines, but that's the only time in my life that I I've had to because it's just so incredibly painful.

• 7:05Kara Swisher?

  But you want to edit, right?

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do, because sometimes you outsource and you go, oh, I'll trust my friends to look at it and give me their notes on it. And then in the end, the self consciousness that makes me not want to watch myself is the same kind of self consciousness that makes me as the only one who could who can edit it.

• 7:20Kara Swisher?

  Because it's you.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's me. Yes.

• 7:22Kara Swisher?

  I mean, I just did that with a special to do for Santa and I like very much was like, it's me. Don't tell me what I am. So how do you overcome that? Do you not?

• 7:31Speaker 00

  You know, the one time I struggled with it, I was reading The Tools by Schultz, I'm thinking his name is. I forget his name, but he he's kind of controversial now, but there was one quote in it. It was like, I love fear. Fear sets me free. And I was just repeating that to myself over and over of like, I just have to be uncomfortable. I just I mean, honestly, the only reason I do it is because I have a team of people that are asking me to do it. Otherwise, I probably would never release a special ever. Or if it just wasn't a part of my career, I would love to just have stand up be this thing that is just live in the moment and there's no record of it.

• 8:09Kara Swisher?

  Which is your favorite part, right?

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:11Kara Swisher?

  So Phil Stutz, Phil Stutz is the author.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Phil Stutz, yeah, Phil Stutz, sorry, yes.

• 8:14Kara Swisher?

  So you eat fear for breakfast? Is that the message?

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the thing of like, I love fear. I run into fear. Picture fear as like a wall that you have to run into. And so I was I kind of go into that of like, I know that my self esteem is built upon doing things that are hard and conquering them. So I know that on the other side of doing this horribly uncomfortable thing is me feeling better about myself.

• 8:36Kara Swisher?

  Got it.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  And and it it does always, you know, wind up that way. The thing that I fear most of

• 8:42Speaker 00

  You know, regretting some decision I made. I mean, there's so many regrets I make in the edit, where I look back and I think, oh, my God, why didn't I just say this extra line? Or why didn't I describe this part differently? Or why didn't I make a funnier face at this moment? And I just have to think, OK, you know, I've worked a lot on that of listening to a lot of Sam Harris meditations and podcasts about regret and how there's no point in it, first of all. And also, there's something that me not doing that funny face or me not making that extra tag, that really only fits that joke. I can't really use that again. There will be some use for it someday. You know, even in talking about it right now, this is a use for me regretting something is talking about regret here with you.

• 9:25Kara Swisher?

  But you can also, editing is a constant process. Like, I know Mike Birbiglia does things over and changes them on the course of his journey, essentially.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Well, that's my problem, is that I should be watching and listening to myself through the course of putting together a special, and I don't. I just go off of memory. And if I were to even watch my set one time before and review it like everyone tells me to, I could be so much better. So I think there's always just that fear of realizing my potential. It's not about what I-

• 9:55Kara Swisher?

  Or you don't want to look at yourself.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:57Kara Swisher?

  Because one of the main topics in the special is your appearance and the pressure to maintain it, which is interesting. There's a line where you say, "When you look fuckable, your life is great." And a lot of your jokes center on how you embrace that harsh truth because it helped you professionally. Talk a little bit about that.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I actually just was rereading Tina Fey's Bossy Pants, and she had a great part in that that really synthesized everything I want to say about that, is that one of the things she learned from Lorne Michaels is that don't feel bad about asking for a makeup touch-up or perfecting your lighting or making sure that a scene that you're, you know, putting together on SNL is dressed well and detailed and pretty, because if people are drawn to it optically, they're going to hear you more. So I think in the end, it's just about- Really wanting to be heard and feeling like when you are pretty, both men and women are drawn to watch you and then therefore listen to what you have to say.

• 10:55Kara Swisher?

  Hmm, interesting. Does it bother you at all?

• 10:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:57Kara Swisher?

  It was really interesting because I was watching when you were talking about it. I was like, she thinks she looks bad? You know what I mean? You're, you know, it was interesting.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 11:03Kara Swisher?

  I mean, the obvious question is male comedians don't face that same kind of, in fact, many of them do not look good in any way whatsoever.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  No, they don't. And they lean into that. And, um, and I'm, I'm very envious of, um, being able to not have to care about that stuff because it is so time consuming. And I feel like I would get a lot more done and I would just be more rested and, uh, just a more well-balanced person if I didn't spend so much time on all the upkeep to look a certain way. But then there's a part of me that also feels bad that they don't get a chance to really level up and that they kind of don't have as many options to draw the eye as, as women do. So, you know, we're getting into manosphere talk here of like, women just, you know, but there is a part of that that I, I do have some compassion for with men where like, they, if they have a zit, they just have to have a zit.

• 11:50Kara Swisher?

  Well, they could look smacks. You know, it's a thing.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Well, now, yes, they could, um, break their bones with a hammer and see how that works out for them.

• 11:59Kara Swisher?

  That guy's not doing very well today.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  No, he's not. No, he's not. But yeah, it's, it's something that I, I struggle with. I'm both grateful for it, but I also resent it deeply. And I'm also terrified of it, it eventually kind of, uh, falling away from me.

• 12:11Kara Swisher?

  So you, you made it material. No, you were talking about facelifts. That was very funny. People come before you with their bad facelifts, presumably.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:19Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Now men are in the bad facelift period of time, I've noticed.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're getting them now too. And, um, and I get why. I mean, it's really, there's really good work out there now that can be done really subtly.

• 12:31Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  You kind of, you can't, you don't notice it as much anymore. And, um, that's the other thing is like, the more success I've had and the more money I have, the more options I have to look hotter. And it kind of feels like if you aren't doing everything you can and reaching, again, your potential in that realm, you're failing in some way. And there's almost like a wistfulness for. When I used to not be able to afford Botox and I could say, okay, well, I look like shit because I can't afford to look hot.

• 13:01Kara Swisher?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  And now that I can afford to look hot, it just feels like, God, why am I not doing this thing? And oh, my gosh, they came up with the peptides and I should be doing that laser. And then there's another, and then you do that laser and then two months later, you go in and they go, oh, no, that laser room is the fat on your face. You need the fat on your face.

• 13:15Kara Swisher?

  The peptides.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  And the peptides. I mean, I just listened to you talk to that guy about them and I'm so glad to hear that maybe I shouldn't be doing those because I was for a second and then I fell off because I didn't feel any difference.

• 13:28Kara Swisher?

  That's correct. I won't go into it, but men are more into it than everything. I'm getting yelled at by a series of gay men right now and I don't really care what you say. I mean, sure, use it, knock yourself out.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:38Kara Swisher?

  But one of the things, it is that vicious, although I was just thinking as you were talking, I was like, I can't think of a male comic who's actually hot. I mean, I can think of a lot of actors.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:47Kara Swisher?

  Who?

• 13:48Speaker 00

  I mean, there's some good-looking ones. I mean, um, I don't want to name names because I don't want to give them any credit because they're, I'm not such a fan of their material.

• 14:00Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  But there are some that are attractive and, but it is distracting and I think that it hurts them in the end.

• 14:07Kara Swisher?

  Oh, interesting. I think it's a very low bar for men, I have to say.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  It is a low bar. I mean, it couldn't be truer that just like men just age, we just accept they're aging a lot more and we trust them more as they age and we think they sound smarter and have more to say and we let them pause longer and take longer to tell stories and we hang on their every word. Whereas I just don't feel, I'm just fearing that when I start to like show the signs of aging that people won't care anymore. And there's, there's proof behind that though.

• 14:39Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it's true. But this special was recorded in St. Louis, which is where you grew up and where you live now, correct?

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, yes.

• 14:46Kara Swisher?

  And the Midwest is a very different place than New York or LA. Now, St. Louis is a pretty hip place, actually, for people who don't know that, but it's a pretty cool city. And you joke about how people don't care as much as what they look like and actually insult the audience. So talk about living there. I didn't realize you lived there.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I moved back, I was in New York and LA pretty much after college, just pursuing this career and then I found myself in New York and. Um, during COVID and I just was like, I'll just move back home with my parents because this is scary and work has dried up. So I just moved back into my childhood bedroom. Um, in pretty much March of 2020. And then I hung out there for 10 months, living with my parents who are like, you know, my favorite people and we just had a great time. And, and then as soon as they kind of were like, it's time for you to move back out. I, um, I just didn't, I just, I just didn't feel the need to go back. I, I think I was actually very lucky because I was at a point in my career where I didn't really need to be on

• 15:46Speaker 00

  the coast to be seen and to be thought of for projects. People were already kind of aware of me. So I kind of reasoned, you know, if people, if someone wants me to do something in LA and they don't have a week's notice to give me and, you know, $400 for a Southwest flight, uh, then it's probably not a project I'd even want to do anyway. So I feel like I can just be in St. Louis. And also I just feel like I, um, I know that I'm, you know, addicted to work and I can really, um, hurt myself with it. And I guess kind of felt like I'm going to keep work on the coast so that if I really want it, I go to it. And it's not just something that is just always outside my door and making me feel like I'm not doing enough. You know, if I'm living in New York, there's always a set I can go do that night. There's always a podcast that I can jump on that day. And,

• 16:31Speaker 00

  and here in St. Louis, there's just not, that's, I don't feel those pressures. So I can kind of just relax.

• 16:36Kara Swisher?

  What is it like living there?

• 16:38Speaker 00

  I sleep late. I play with my dogs. I take a Pilates class. I go visit my parents and hang out with them. I, I have like a, visit my sister and her kids. Like I kind of just do honestly, nothing. I do a lot of sleeping because usually when I'm here, I'm just catching up from just, you know, nonstop.

• 16:57Kara Swisher?

  A tour.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Go, go, go. Yeah. Yeah.

• 16:59Kara Swisher?

  What is the mood there? I mean, it's, it's St. Louis is, is more liberal, obviously. And I have friends who live in Kansas City, same thing. But what's the mentality difference? Do you feel that or not?

• 17:11Speaker 00

  Well, I just, just in terms of show business is the thing that I pay most attention to is that people are not as driven, not show business, business in general, I just don't feel like people are as driven here for, for good or bad. I think for me, it's good because I just don't feel as in competition with others. I think here it's about, you know, what your yard looks like and how, how your home is decorated and what school your kids go to. And those are not metrics, but I wish I measure myself at all. So I feel a lot more free here to not judge myself and not compare myself. And also I just, people, people just don't care about celebrity here. It doesn't feel gossipy. It doesn't feel like I'm being watched

• 17:56Speaker 00

  or that, you know, and I, I've told the story before, but it's just so funny to me that, you know, the week before I hosted SNL, like sitting in the hair chair, getting my hair done. And she's like, do you have any fun plans coming up? And I go, oh, I'm hosting SNL next week. And she goes, fun. And then just like keeps going. I'm like, if, it was just, you know, I was ready for her to go, what? You're, because it hadn't been enough, you know, and there's just, they just don't seem to be as awestruck by those things. And much to my parents' chagrin. I mean, my parents are so disappointed.

• 18:30Kara Swisher?

  They want to dine out on it.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Oh, they, they want everyone losing their minds because they lose their minds. But I just tell them like, people just don't care about that stuff as much here. And I'm, I, it, it, it tickles me actually.

• 18:42Kara Swisher?

  That's funny. Fun, fun. That's really good.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  Fun. Oh, like, like I have a, you know, a, a college friend's wedding coming up.

• 18:50Kara Swisher?

  Right, exactly. Right.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  And I go, did you hear I'm hosting? I'm not watching it. I'm not hosting a party. It's just, no. Oh, fun. So I, I appreciate that. Like, it's just not, you know, it's important, but okay. It humbles you.

• 19:02Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I get it. I get it. Now, shifting, total shift. Another major theme in this special is your vagina. You spent about 15 minutes talking about it, the anxiety you felt when you were younger about how it looked. Even in 2026, a lot of people are uncomfortable with a woman talking frankly about her sexuality. Why did you choose to make it such a big part? Part of your special. I enjoyed it myself.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  You know, well, the main reason is that the jokes just killed on the road. I mean, there was, there's just a thing you feel on stage where you start doing kind of the dirtier comedy that I I've been like known for, where you just feel a pop from the crowd, where they just get energized. It's at the end of the the show, they've been sitting there a while and they somehow summon all this energy to laugh so much harder at those jokes.

• 19:45Kara Swisher?

  So and you're like, now the vagina comes out, right?

• 19:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was just like, I, you know, there's a part of me that felt it was hack. Or, you know, so many women get, female comics get told, oh, you talk about your vagina and and sex. And it's like so easy and I I never want to feel like I'm doing the easy hack thing. But I can't deny that it was killing. And I also thought, you know, if I let that kind of rhetoric determine what I talk about on stage, I'm just going to be placating into the, again, like the male comedians that I've started in my career, trying to impress. And I just, I just don't want to do that. And I also just feel that it's, it's still important. I feel like women still need to be really a lot more open about their sexuality. And it helps a lot of women and men understand women's sexuality more.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  So I just felt, you know, if there was still some girl who has not heard me in the course of my career talk about my insecurities about my vagina, I want to reach that that girl and let her know like she's not alone in the way she feels about hers and and the anxiety you have when presenting it to someone new.

• 20:48Kara Swisher?

  Right, because men never talk about their penises.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Exactly. I know, there's not enough. It's really, I, I'm, I'm excited for them to tackle that at some point.

• 20:57Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just, but there is a part of me that is ashamed of it and that maybe I put it at the end of my special, hoping that maybe some people wouldn't get to it, so I wouldn't be judged for it. Because it's, you know, it's something that I, um.

• 21:10Kara Swisher?

  No, it works.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  I am, I'm embarrassed of doing, you know, you, I get called a sex comic all the time and I get kind of, there's been opportunities I've lost out on, I would say, earlier on in my career, that were more mainstream, um, network TV.

• 21:25Kara Swisher?

  Like talking about your washing machine.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that people thought, oh, she's too dirty, so she can't go on this show. Because she's just gonna talk about her vagina and they didn't realize that I know when and when not to do that. So I, I, you know, and I also just don't want other female comics to have to suffer what I have created for them, which is like more evidence that all we talk about are vaginas. But I, I think, um, well, there's so many different ones. They all look different. So I feel like there's a lot of different angles to cover. I haven't.

• 21:52Kara Swisher?

  I felt it was perfectly fine to talk about your vagina. It was like, fuck.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  Thank you, Kara.

• 21:55Kara Swisher?

  And by the way, men do talk. Like, I have a four-year-old who has not stopped talking about his penis and he's not even a comic yet.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I mean, it is fascinating and it's, I always want to just talk about.

• 22:04Kara Swisher?

  I'm three boys in. I'm three. I only have one daughter.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  You've heard it all.

• 22:08Kara Swisher?

  I've heard all about it.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  It is what we're not supposed to talk about and I think that's maybe one of the reasons I am talking about it is because I didn't have a chance in my, growing up, to ever make jokes about it. You can't touch it if you even itch it and in, you know, in front of your parents and you're just like playing with it. What are you doing? You know, there was a shame around it. So I think I'm always just drawn to the things that as a kid or teenager, I just felt like I couldn't talk about.

• 22:32Kara Swisher?

  So, and speaking of your parents, your dad was sitting in the front row of this. He's listened to that before presumably, right?

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, I, I think he had heard it before. He'd come to see me on the road before. Yes.

• 22:42Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah. He handled it well. Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  You know, they have been through the whole thing with me. I started out, you know, 20 something years ago, really, um, putting them on blast and talking about really disgusting stuff. Like, kind of, I was just, I was a late bloomer, so I was just kind of exploring my sexuality and really bringing it all on stage. And so my parents were always in the crowd, supporting me and, and kind of just stayed quiet about it. They'd never shamed me about it or said, maybe, don't do that, or, oh, this is so embarrassing. But I came to find out later on that it was really embarrassing for them and really uncomfortable. And I, I just, I never even considered their perspective on it. I think that if I would have, it would have, um, it would have hindered my creativity in some way to consider how they felt and to have empathy for them in those moments.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  And I did have a, a moment, I would say 15 years in, where my dad was in the crowd and I was describing, giving oral sex or something, and I just saw his shining bald head in the background. And I had to stop and I was like, I cannot believe I'm doing this. I, Dad, I am so, it just dawned on me how uncomfortable that would be for him. It wasn't even about how I felt. I, I really, I don't have. Embarrassment around it for some reason, but I saw it from his perspective because I guess I could see my reflection in his head and I was like, I am so sorry and I, it was this like awakening on stage that happened in real time and after that I was a little bit more, um, you know, like I just told my parents, like you can, you can go to the bathroom for this part of my set if they would come to my show. Now this one in particular,

• 24:09Speaker 00

  I was like, I think they can kind of handle everything that I'm talking about, but they're just so proud, they don't care.

• 24:14Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, your dad was asked about advice to others whose kids get into comedy, he said, get some thick skin.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:19Kara Swisher?

  Uh, which I think is the right answer for a parent. Um, that's it. Your special ends on a kind of full circle note. You talk about rejecting insecurity and feeling confident in face of imperfection. Um, talk about that because that's where you get to, um, accepting yourself and at the same time, it doesn't go away.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. It, I don't think it, it ever goes away. I feel like I, um, am always striving for, uh, I guess perfection, acceptance of myself is more the thing that I'm trying to strive for now is, is acceptance and, um, I like that it's an ongoing battle. I think it is what fuels me to keep going and to even pursue this career because it's, um, there, it's an empty pursuit and if I wasn't trying to achieve, uh, the world thinking something of me and, and how they perceive me, I, I really wouldn't continue going. There's no point in doing it. I mean, the money is nice, so that is, you know, something that I, I like about it, but the attention, I mean, that comes from a really sad place of,

• 25:21Speaker 00

  of wanting, expecting a crowd of people to sit for an hour and listen to me talking to a microphone. I'm not singing, there's no dancing, there's no lights, there's no video show. Like, I mean, it's really expecting a lot out of a crowd. I, I, I'm honestly shocked that people go to comedy shows and have the attention span for it now. I'm always really impressed by people. I mean, I do as well, but I just, I'm always really proud of myself afterwards. Like I just watch someone monologize. It just feels like something that, uh, we, we shouldn't have the attention span for anymore, but I feel like I, I hope it never goes away. I, I kind of like my insecurities. I, and I am. I'm secure in my insecurities is what I feel I am. I really am like I feel like I had a friend once who was like would never admit she had

• 26:04Speaker 00

  low self-esteem and she would always say to me, I can't believe how you could admit that you have low self-esteem. That's just something I could, I probably do have. She couldn't even say that she even, she was like, I might have it, but I would never ever say that to anyone and say it out loud and especially to everyone. And I've just never felt shame about that. I really, I know that that's okay. And I just am, I'm always on a quest just to be as honest as possible. And I think that that is also, if I am as honest as possible and people still like me, then I guess I feel likeable deep down because I think there's something about this business that feels so fake that when people like me because of, you know, the Golden

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Globes or a roast or a photo shoot I did or, you know, whatever it is, I can't really let it in because I'm like, well, that's not really me. You know, that's, it is me, but it's, it's months and months of work that was to make this one version of me that is so glowy and so unattainable for me if I don't completely, like, you know, doing a Golden Globes, I have to give up my entire life. It's not, it's like an Olympics. It's not something that I could keep doing forever. And so I don't really like the praise for that. But then there's the praise that comes where people go, well, then I'll praise you for how hard you work. And I'm like, well, I don't like that either because that means I'm not talented. That means, oh, you just work harder than everyone else.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  So I, it's, I'm just never really satisfied and I think I need that. It's, it's the engine that fuels me.

• 27:35Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting because I think comics are very vulnerable and they're telling a story and to hold people's attention is very difficult. I don't know if you remember, there's a movie Tom Hanks and Sally Field did about comics that I still stays with me to this day. I don't know why. It wasn't a huge hit or anything else.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  Punchline, I think it was.

• 27:53Kara Swisher?

  Punchline, yes.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  What stays with you about it?

• 27:55Kara Swisher?

  The vulnerability of them. And insecurity and still walking out there. Cruelty a little bit towards each other. It was very unlike Tom Hanks, too, because he was a little bit cruel, right?

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:07Kara Swisher?

  And the desperation, I just, every bit of, and Sally Field does that desperation better than anybody.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Yes. Well, that's the comedy I like most, is that, is when someone is sharing a part of their psyche that's really shameful and that is, you know, is really embarrassing. I don't really like comedy that's just talking about the other day, this happened, or just observational comedy, although I respect it and it's not something I can do. It just isn't my cup of tea. I really like when people are kind of humiliating themselves in a way that makes me like them more and feel closer to them and makes me like myself more.

• 28:46Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 28:55Kara Swisher?

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• 29:38Kara Swisher?

  climate, culture, sports, lifestyle, fashion, and wellness. Plus, The Guardian wants to emphasize they're not billionaire-owned, meaning they're free to report the whole picture without interference. Go to theguardian.com/stateside to learn more and listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube starting May 13.

• 30:00Kara Swisher?

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• 30:43Kara Swisher?

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• 31:13Kara Swisher?

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• 31:55Kara Swisher?

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• 32:19Kara Swisher?

  Let's talk a little bit more about your style of comedy and some of the major themes you like to explore. Obviously, you noted this in the show, you gained a lot of fame from your appearances on Comedy Central Roast, a lot of good ones, the Tom Brady one really sent you over the top, I think. The jokes you made about him were brutal and he was sitting right there, which I thought was great. Can you just talk about roasting? Is that a different thing? Because you kind of said it offhand, like, in an interesting way in the show.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, it feels, it feels like a different skill. I mean, it's, it's, for me, it's about joke writing. That's what drew me to roast most of all is I, I love, I love really tight jokes. I like one-liners. I like just a real sharp turn of phrase. It feels like little math problems. It just is, to me, has always been an expression of intelligence that I've respected and, you know, the Mitch Hedberg's or the Steven Wright's or Wendy Liebman's, just these like, just being so concise. So I always liked that about it.

• 33:14Kara Swisher?

  Right.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  And also, you don't need much of an attention span. You're just on to the next joke before you're bored. I really don't really enjoy storytelling comedians because I can't, I just don't care enough to, to walk through an entire story with them and it's so, it's not very often that compelling the whole way through and it feels too self-important, all the pauses and just expecting the audience to follow you on this journey to the bank. I just don't care, but, so I always loved like the sharpness of the joke writing and it was just something that, um, yeah, I think that I first got started doing it just helping my friends write jokes. They were doing the roast and I would just submit jokes and see what I could get on and, and I got some on and it was just such a good feeling to write a joke that people were talking about.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  And then, I think the other thing I like about it is that it's like you get to be so brutally honest.

• 34:02Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, mean. Yeah, so you have to have the right amount of mean.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  And honesty is, it is mean, you know, like, just Taylor Swift lyric, "You called me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest." Like, you can be so mean but, and just say, "But I'm just telling you the truth. Do you not want the truth?" And so it's, it's, it gives me permission to do that. That's why I like them is they're, it's protected by this, it feels like the most protected space of free speech of like, this guy signed up for this, they, they didn't give any parameters or they gave some and I'm abiding by them and so now I have to find loopholes where I can hurt this person in ways they don't even know that they were gonna be.

• 34:41Kara Swisher?

  What was the parameter there?

• 34:43Speaker 00

  You know, there was just like stuff of like, hey, maybe don't, you know, in the past roasts that I've done, it's just like, don't go after their kids. Don't go after maybe a person in their life who's sick or old or, you know, like, it's stuff like that, that I, I always respect. I don't mind anyone telling me, hey, don't joke about this, it's gonna hurt my feelings. Like, fair enough. And that's never my goal, but it is my goal to find an angle that other people haven't explored.

• 35:06Kara Swisher?

  The loophole.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  And when you get it, it's like that feeling of when you write a joke that no one else has thought of, and it's a new type of joke that none of the roasts have ever done, because a lot of it, it's just like, you know, plug and play. Like, you can really write a good set using a lot of the same tropes and tricks that have been done before. So, that's a, it's a really fun nut to crack, and it's just, um, yeah, and you're just allowed to be a psychopath for seven minutes. I mean, it's insane, the things that I've gotten away with saying.

• 35:33Kara Swisher?

  Was there one joke you liked, or wanted to put in?

• 35:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, there's always times, even with the Golden Globes, there's always times where it's like, oh, this is the best joke I've ever heard or written, or, you know, one, someone in my, my writing staff writes, and, you know, you just, you just can't do it, because it's just gonna make the room feel too weird, or it's just too harsh for that moment, especially like a Golden Globes. And, um, and you just have to let it go, and it's so painful, but you just think, okay, maybe I'll put that in my book someday when that person's dead, or something like it's...

• 36:06Kara Swisher?

  Speaking of the Golden, you, you don't touch on politics a lot, although you did include some jokes about Epstein files in your opening monologue, which I thought was interesting. Talk a little bit about that, how you made the decisions there.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I was so immersed in it at that time, anyway. I have gotten away from it, like, I think we all have, unfortunately, um, recently.

• 36:24Kara Swisher?

  Melania brought it back.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  She really did. And we still don't know exactly what that was preempting, but it's, I'm, I'm waiting every day for that other shoe to drop. But, um, yeah, I was just so, I was reading so much about it, I was so mad about it. I mean, it's, it's, if you like true crime, there's a lot going on in there, and there's a lot that the mainstream media can't even report on, because it's too grotesque to even paraphrase. I mean, it's like, it was crazy, the stuff I was getting into, so I think it was on my mind a lot, and also, um, it's one of those things that no one can deny is wrong. Like, no, I, that to me felt totally safe to go after, because... You know, although there were people in that room that night that were definitely in the files, like, um, no one's going to say that's mean of me.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  It's, it's, it felt like a, you know, for lack of a better term, a safe space to go to.

• 37:18Kara Swisher?

  Right, right.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  For, for a monologue and, um, but in the, in the right way, because I think actually Epstein, you know, 2019 till, you know, the drop last winter was like kind of an easier joke to make and to reference because we didn't know the horrid details of it as much. And I think it was a little bit more risky, given that, but I forget the joke. Oh yeah, I was like, um, oh, a lot of A-listers in the room tonight. And by A-listers, I mean, people who are definitely on A-list that has been heavily redacted. So I felt like that was, that was safe enough because you're not getting into any of the details of it. And we're just, and I didn't say his name. And it's just, I said list. So there was a lot of things about that that I felt like.

• 37:57Kara Swisher?

  Well, list is now Epstein, just for.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  Exactly. That word is.

• 38:00Kara Swisher?

  That word is now. And your biggest hit was your CBS joke, though, I have to say. I think that one got the most attention. Were you surprised by that?

• 38:07Speaker 00

  No, I think I, I, I knew that. I was so happy that CBS did not cut that because, you know, that was one that I was really worried that they were going to see. And I would have understood if they were like, can you just not like, we're paying you a lot of money and we're putting a lot into this. Can you not throw us under the bus? But they, they liked it. And I think when I did it in rehearsals, a lot of the, the crew and cameramen were all laughing. And I think, I think the powers that, that be, uh, saw that and just knew it was undeniably just going to be a killer. And I think that they wanted, um, you know, they wanted that show to be killer. They, they wanted that headline, you know, they wanted the press that would maybe come from me doing that headline more than the bad press associated with it. And I, and I thought it was really, I was really happy that, that they let me do it.

• 38:52Kara Swisher?

  It was a great joke. It was a great joke.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 38:54Kara Swisher?

  Um, and I'm glad they let you do it. I hope they continue to let people do that. We'll see. So let's get to our expert question. Every episode, we get an outside expert to ask one. Here's yours.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  Hi Kara and Nikki. It's your old friend, Judd Apatow, here in Savannah, Georgia, directing a movie during World War III. I have a question. Is it possible to be funny during World War III? Also, is it possible to not gain weight?

• 39:24Speaker 04

  How can we be funny when the world is so fucking weird? When our government is stranger than every single character from Doctor Strangelove?

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Anyway, just wondering. Bye.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Well, he's a great example of someone who is continuing to be funny amidst all this. And I think that, no, I mean, I've really struggled with it because it's just made me so depressed that it's hard to be funny. And it's hard for me to even look at my own life and be funny about it, or think that anything in my mundane life that I'm complaining about, like my lip filler is interesting for anyone to hear about. But, you know, I think that, I think we just have fatigue with all of it. And people needed us, I do, I know that's often used a lot of like, we just need an escape and it's just a reason people give to justify making bad art. But I think that it's true. I think people do want to think about anything else.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  And I think that I want to talk about anything else. And it's almost nostalgic to worry about the dumb stuff.

• 40:32Kara Swisher?

  It was interesting because you had said to Howard Stern that you pulled some political jokes from your monologue, for example, like Trump and ICE. Was it fatigue or that you just, it was hard to strike the right tone, as you noted?

• 40:43Speaker 00

  I just don't want to say his name, to be honest with you. Like, I just don't want to give him airtime. There were lots of jokes that, you know, said ICE and Trump. And I just, and the ballroom, we had jokes about, you know, I just didn't want to say his name. I just felt like, I knew he would be watching and I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of having anything to respond to. And I just, and I don't want those words to come out of my lips. I mean, I can't even, I really don't listen to him. I don't watch him. I just read what he says. I sometimes watch it on mute, but I really, I can't, I can't stomach it. And so I just don't, and I don't talk about it on stage because I don't.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  When I'm doing my stand-up, I don't want to know who in my crowd might be on that side. Because I don't want to resent anyone in the crowd. Because then I get angry and it starts to... And no one likes an angry woman especially. But just in general, it just doesn't mix well. And I can just... When I get heckled or something, or something disarms me on stage, and there's an angry side to me, I just lose the crowd instantly. It's like they don't trust me anymore. Like, the bus driver that is like driving the kids to school is suddenly like freaking out. And then, and everyone gets scared. And so I just...

• 41:56Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  I try not to just, I try not to talk about it because the times that I have, and I felt like the crowd go in a certain way, I just start, you know, aiming my jokes at only the side that I like. And I'm just... And, and these people made money, and I don't want to make them feel bad. And it's not their fault that they have the ideology that they have. I would too if I had their same brain and was, grew up in the same family and the same place in America. Like, I try to, I try to remember that no one has free will. And everyone that likes him, I would like him too if I was that person. I try to remember that. I feel lucky that I, that I have the brain that I have that knows, you know, how ridiculous it all is.

• 42:33Kara Swisher?

  Right. No, it also does bring down... I mean, some of, some of the comedy can be very funny, but it's sort of gotten not funny. Like, you see a lot of the Daily shows and stuff like that. And they do a nice job, I have to say.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  I, I like, I like Kimmel's anger at it. You know, like, Kimmel is able to harness his anger and frustration with it in a way that I really find soothing to me.

• 42:53Kara Swisher?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  And also, you know, Jon Stewart's just consternation at it all and frustration is, is a really funny device for it.

• 43:00Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, it was great that he was the one being saved by Jesus Trump. That was...

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Oh, was that him? Was that Jon Stewart?

• 43:06Kara Swisher?

  No, it wasn't, but he looked, it looks like him. And then in the back, I just, a few days ago, interviewed Jose Andres, who's doing World Central Kitchen. And the guy in the back looks like him with a hat. And he said he's gotten 7,000 texts from people. Because it looks like him.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  What an honor.

• 43:22Kara Swisher?

  And he's like, what was I doing there? I don't understand. I was in Gaza feeding people and then I was in this picture. And it does, go look at it. You're like, whoa. What is happening?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  I really haven't taken that image in outside of his doctor, his medical garb.

• 43:37Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. And then there's a character from a sci fi. The whole thing is whoever does this, I kind of want to meet all Trump stuff.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  They don't even like fact, it feels like they don't even watch it or review anything they put up.

• 43:48Kara Swisher?

  I just kind of want to be in the room as they make it. Like, what are you thinking?

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Someday we're gonna find out.

• 43:53Kara Swisher?

  It's a teenage boy. It's some really fucked up teenage boy.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  I know.

• 43:57Kara Swisher?

  Mostly wants to hear about your vagina.

• 44:01Kara Swisher?

  We'll be back in a minute.

• 44:10Speaker 05

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• 45:21Speaker 06

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• 45:51Kara Swisher?

  I'm Kara Swisher and I like people who say the quiet part out loud. In fact, I love it. That's Tiger Sisters, a new podcast that recently joined the Vox Media Podcast Network. Cherie Brooke Lu and Jean Lu are real sisters who built their careers at LinkedIn and Goldman Sachs. On their weekly podcast, they're giving the next generation practical tips on how to get ahead. How to write emails people actually answer, how to make your LinkedIn profile stand out, and how to keep learning as an adult. It's straight talk about money, career, and relationships every Monday. Follow Tiger Sisters wherever you get your podcasts.

• 46:27Kara Swisher?

  Let's end talking about business of comedy and Hollywood generally. Obviously, podcasts have become a huge part of comedy right now. You had one for a few years, but ended last year. Talk about, is it shaping comedy, these podcasts? Because a whole lot of comics are doing them now, like a lot.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Well, it's getting people to go see comedians because they find out about them through podcasts. So I think it's helping in that way. But I think that it's made the bar a bit lower for comedy because, you know, stand-up comedy takes work and it takes effort and rewriting and punching up and reviewing and trying your material over and over again. And that has kind of become a lost art because there's just this expectation now that you should just have fresh stuff all the time and just be able to be funny on command. And I think that it's lowered the bar in the sense that, yeah, people are just expecting, they expect less, I guess, and so they're entertained by less. But I think I hear a lot, I mean, when I'm looking on Reddit and reading about people

• 47:26Speaker 00

  going to see stand-up shows of their favorite podcasters, that they're... They're often very disappointed because it's not what they expected it to be. Because it's not the right place for the level of professionalism for a podcast. I mean, it's, yeah, it needs to be more polished. So, you know, obviously.

• 47:44Kara Swisher?

  Why did you stop doing it? Now, we went on tour and did really well because it was the show. We just did the show.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Well, yours is polished. You have, you have notes. You've done your research. You're not just, you know, there's, you have a system in place and you work hard on it. There's a difference between, you know, there's a lot of different ways to podcast and there's, and I enjoy the ones that are just shooting the shit. There's times and the time and a place for that. But I stopped podcasting because I wasn't giving it that effort. I just was sitting down and just shooting from the hip and saying things that I didn't even really, hadn't really thought through and couldn't really back up. And I was just feeling like I was getting to a place where my words were being taken more seriously and being paid more attention to by like Page Six.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  And I was getting things poll quoted that I didn't even remember saying. And it was becoming kind of embarrassing. And it was also like, you need to have a video podcast now. So it was about doing hair and makeup every day so you could look presentable enough for this to live online forever. And, you know, when you level up at, in show business, like now I need full glam for when I'm going to be on camera. I mean, I didn't get it today. Or is it, you know, like, there's, there's a time and a place. But like, you know, I just was feeling like this burden every day of like, I have to look a certain way. And some days I would just look tired and then that's out there forever. And then people are pulling, it just was, it was just too much pressure.

• 49:07Kara Swisher?

  You didn't like it. I love it. Every time I do it, I love it. You have to love it.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  I did, I did love it. And there's parts of it that I miss. I miss having that connection with people who feel like they know you and, and you get to talk to them every day. Yeah, I mean, I have it too with celebrities. So I really liked providing that for people because I felt like, yeah, if you listen to my podcast and you think you'd be friends with me, you're probably right. I'm really myself on this thing. But I just felt like it was for people who were paying attention that wanted something. That weren't just looking to listen to something on their drive to work and were actually trying to pay attention to what I say and glean something from it. I think I was falling short and I really like to make, I was just, as I get older, I just want to put out things out that I'm proud of and I wasn't proud of it. And so I'll go back to it when I can work on it.

• 49:55Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Do you feel like you have to be on them? I mean, to say, how important have podcasts become to comedy as a business?

• 50:02Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, so important. I mean, it's, it's just a way, yeah, it's like, doing The Tonight Show was the biggest deal ever to me, even when I did it after the boom and like, you know, first time I was on Tonight Show, 2009, the hugest deal in comedy and was so until probably five years ago. And it's still a big deal to get a late night set, but nobody sees it. Nobody really, it doesn't move ticket sales like a podcast does. So you still have to go on these podcasts. You have to weigh, and especially now that, you know, some of the most popular comedy podcasts are on the wrong side of things. You have to, you know, there's a moral dilemma there of what am I gonna do?

• 50:44Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Look at Polar. Polar, there's a lot, it's changing, I have to say.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Yes. There's a, there's a lot more now to do that are just, you know, are getting the same level of attention that are not problematic, but um.

• 50:57Kara Swisher?

  It's heavy right wing. Yeah, Scott and I are always in the top 10, but we're always surrounded by Candace Owen and Mark Levin.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's what it is.

• 51:05Kara Swisher?

  Megan Kelly's always hanging at the top, like, looking down at us with her angry eyes.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  I mean, the thing is, I do feel like I still need to do them. I am nervous about them every time I do it. Like, I did one last week, I did Call Her Daddy, and, you know, it was like a two-hour conversation. It was so much fun, talking about sex, openly. She's such a girl's girl. And it was like, I just felt like we were like best friends by the end of it. And I maintain that we are. Like, I really feel a friendship with her. And, but, but I was talking like I would a best friend. And I was feeling like, oh, you know. I wasn't even thinking about censoring myself in any way, knowing that this podcast gets, you know, makes headlines. And then, you know, a week later, I wake up to just headlines about Nikki Glaser says that she likes for her boyfriend to sleep with other women.

• 51:54Speaker 00

  And it was like five different headlines showing up in my feed. And I don't even follow myself. I don't look for news about myself. I like avoided at all costs. And, um, and it was just really embarrassing because I was like, that was just one little thing I talked about, like, oh, I'm kind of turned on by this idea of it. And then it was just everyone I knew had seen it that day. I went in to like, do some voiceover work. And even the people on the Zoom on the voiceover were like, wow, a lot of headlines about you today. And I'm like, that is so humiliating that they know this.

• 52:23Kara Swisher?

  Go to the hair lady. Go to the hair lady.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Exactly. Oh, fun. No, that's the one she would know about and care about.

• 52:30Kara Swisher?

  Oh, no.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  And so that's the other thing that's like, I just get like nervous now because I, in these spaces, I do feel like a connection with the host. And I do feel comfortable and I feel like, oh, no one's really going to listen to this too hard. And then I just have to pay more attention now to the, the, the stuff I say. But then, you know, it just goes away in a day and no one cares. It's like, it's fine.

• 52:51Kara Swisher?

  Exactly. I never pay attention. I'm, I've gotten, apparently I've gotten to 17 beefs with Megyn Kelly. She always talks about her show and I ignore it completely, except one time I wrote, because there was so much of it, I wrote back, I go, it's never going to happen between us, Megyn. And that ended it. That ended it. It's just, please stop. It's getting worse. Sort of like the Taylor Swift song about, what's her name, Charli XCX?

• 53:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 53:15Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, that was a great song.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  It's so fun.

• 53:18Kara Swisher?

  So petty.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  It's delicious. It was, it's, it's so much fun, but I just, I, I mean, how, did you, do you find, you probably find out about most of these headlines because you have friends texting you or?

• 53:29Kara Swisher?

  No, I don't care. I don't pay attention to them.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Because I don't pay attention to it. It's just like, I find out from people who write to me.

• 53:35Kara Swisher?

  I don't even pay attention to my friends text me about it.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  That's so good. I gotta start blocking them.

• 53:39Kara Swisher?

  I have four kids. I don't, I don't got time for this.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  That's, I gotta get kids. That's maybe that my problem.

• 53:44Kara Swisher?

  You need to, you can borrow mine if you like. I've got a lot. Um, and they're all different ages. So a couple more questions. Hollywood's in the middle of a huge shakeup, talking the bigger business. Obviously, podcasts are part of it, but tens of thousands of jobs have been lost, is still reeling from COVID and labor's dregs and production moving abroad. Marvel's just moving to England. There's things, there's a lot of fear over, obviously, Paramount's pro's takeover Warner Brothers. I've never been so inundated with celebrities who want to come on and talk about this Paramount deal and really big ones, which is really interesting. Do you think about it at all? Because you have, as you said, your stand-up career could go on, right? As long as you have great material.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. To be honest, Cara, I like, don't look at it at all. And I know I should. And I feel really embarrassed that I don't pay attention to it that much. And that when my friends get in conversations about it, I just kind of slowly back out of the room because I don't really under, I feel, I feel too ignorant to kind of understand that kind of talk. It just like, my brain shuts off and I don't, it's like when people try to explain football to me, like, I don't understand mergers and monopoly, like, I just don't, I'm, I'm just not that kind of intelligent. And I just know where I, what I should know. And I try to understand, there are times where I go, please explain it to me and I'll get it all. And then it falls out of my head right away. I mean, I do, I feel for everyone

• 55:02Speaker 00

  going through it. And I just worked on a movie that filmed in Los Angeles and I could just sense the gratitude of everyone on that crew and how.

• 55:09Kara Swisher?

  Because that's dropped rather considerably, yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Yes. They, these people, it was like, maybe, you know, one of, one job they get a year. And, and you know, I've worked with makeup artists for years who were able to make a living. And now they're thinking of moving to Las Vegas or Atlanta. I mean, everyone, everyone in that town is suffering. So I, I feel so much for everyone. And I will say that, like, I do, that's why I, I really don't spend my money. I'm always worried that the,

• 55:39Speaker 00

  It's gonna drop out from underneath me at any point and that's why I, you know, I'm going on tour again, right on the heels of putting out a special and I have to go to New York this summer and write a whole new hour in three months, which I'm gonna get done and I'm excited to do, but it is like, I'm going on tour again in August, which is insane because I just got off tour, but I, I'm worried that people aren't gonna have the money to go see people on tour and that someday, you know, the live entertainment is gonna, that take that same hit, so I'm trying to capitalize on it as much as possible and enjoy that, um, the luck that I've had in this business, but I also just, uh, really am very cautious and, and save my money and I don't, I don't live at, you know, like I see a lot of people

• 56:23Speaker 00

  living, like I don't, you know, I don't spend.

• 56:25Kara Swisher?

  No private planes, you're not getting on and off?

• 56:27Speaker 00

  No, I mean, for, also for fear of like, if you, because I'm, you know, if you crash in a private plane, no one feels sorry for you. I think it's like, we're, that's my biggest fear now, is like, whenever I am in one, yeah, if I'm in South Plus, people be like, oh my God, what a woman of the people, what a hero, died so young, um, they, but you know, like it's, but if I die in a private plane-

• 56:48Kara Swisher?

  There's a whole genre of death comedy that you could do.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, but I thought about it, because I've been in some private jets and I'm like, if this goes down, it's like, the, the amount of sympathy me and my family are gonna get is so, is gonna be so much less because of the private plane.

• 57:01Kara Swisher?

  How dumb she was.

• 57:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, and this elitist bitch, she deserved it. So I like, I do think about that and I do feel like it's a huge waste of money and I don't mind flying, I'm not famous enough that it's like really a hindrance to me to be in the airport amongst the people. It's like, I understand when people do it, but where it's like, people give Taylor Swift shit about like flying privates, like she cannot be out in public.

• 57:23Kara Swisher?

  She cannot be out in public.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  It would shut down the airport, it would, it would cause delays across-

• 57:28Kara Swisher?

  And then they'll be mad at her for that, yeah.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  She can't do anything else and so I don't fault her for that ever, um, and so, but, but I can still do it. I can, I can be in boarding group, see.

• 57:39Kara Swisher?

  Two more questions. The other destructive force, something you've talked about, the Hollywood is AI. You said in the past, you don't mind semi content, it's obviously, I like when you, it creates a video of Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin making out. Do you think about it, about content around AI? It's, some of it's, I mean, like, Iran is killing it right now, making these Lego commercials about, I mean, videos about Trump, for example, they're very funny, actually.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, when done right and, you know, and-

• 58:09Speaker 00

  People behind it have a good point of view and are, you know, modifying it and working with it. And you can create some good stuff if you, there's like a human behind it. But, and I've used it a little bit just to like generate some starting places for jokes where I'm just like, okay, what are some angles that Nikki Glaser would take on this thing? And it'll just give me a jumpstart. Like, you know, like anything, like if you were, when I used to work with my friends. Yeah, with your friends. And so I think it's good for that. But I, um, I'm just like, it's just made me sad that it's like, it's ruined wonder a bit, you know, like when I see something, when I see like, a whale approaching a boat.

• 58:49Kara Swisher?

  This is Scott said this. He can't watch animal. He's so angry about the animal.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  No, you can't enjoy any kind of animal footage anymore. It was already sad to watch anyway, because most, most news about nature is really depressing or any kind of stuff that you see. So I was always kind of like, scared to watch it. But now it's just like, I just, I don't, I don't, I don't trust anything anymore. And I can't, um, I think that that's, that's the part of it that I'm like upset about is that it's just made, um, you know, it's, it's made entertainment less enjoyable because there used to be like, I can't believe they caught this moment. And then you just go through the comments. The first thing I do now, when I see videos, go through the comments and see who's, who's debugged it.

• 59:30Kara Swisher?

  Debugged it, right. And it's AI. Yeah, there's one with a tiger trying to kill a hippo and then a crocodile's eaten. I'm absolutely, I love it, but I'm absolutely certain it's AI.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Oh, I wouldn't want to watch that anyway. Oh, God, I can't.

• 59:43Kara Swisher?

  It's actually strangely satisfying.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  I hope that's AI. Yeah.

• 59:47Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, you're a vegan too. Just, yeah, animal killing is not something that's really pleasant to watch.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  No, I can't handle any of it. No.

• 59:55Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, I would imagine. So, last question. You just wrapped a movie with Kim Kardashian, who is lovely, by the way. Look, I know her pretty well. You're in the process, lovely. So polite. So surprising.

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  So nice. Yes.

• 1:00:07Kara Swisher?

  I was like, you were, you were somehow well, well raised, although it doesn't seem like from the show.

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  She was.

• 1:00:13Kara Swisher?

  But you're up in Calabasas, and feeling her father was a critical part of her life too.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:00:19Kara Swisher?

  So you're in the process of writing, starring another one, produced by Judd Apatow. You're having a moment and that shouldn't matter, but you're having it in your 40s, as you know, the difference between millennials and Gen Z and stuff. And you told Time Magazine, congratulations on being part of the Time 100.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 1:00:36Kara Swisher?

  You've always dreamed of having this kind of success, never thought it would happen.

• 1:00:42Kara Swisher?

  What, can you just go on about that and then what you think you want it to do next with it? Because it gives you a certain power, obviously.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, well, there was just a point, I think, Amy Schumer and I were really close around the time that she kind of blew up. It was like 2013 and we're around the same age and we've kind of done the same type of comedy and people, you know, like I didn't, I always felt like she was just like a peer of mine that like I could look up to in certain ways. She's a little bit older, so there's a big sister energy, but she was just like a, someone that like we just were in the trenches together and then suddenly she blew up and I remember she's like a movie star and I was just, I was struck that I wasn't jealous. There was a moment where I was like, I am just so happy for her. And I remember I was able to understand that I wasn't envious because I just, there's just no way that I would ever do that. Like,

• 1:01:34Speaker 00

  it just seems so unreachable to become the kind of star that she was. And so I just, I think that was the moment that I was like, I don't, I'm never gonna have that and I can just be happy for her and put it over here and support her and truly have no envy. I was so, because I always was so worried that I'm, my whole life is just gonna be being envious of women who do better than me. I was, you know, my sister was prettier than I was and more popular. It was just like a thing that got, you know, embedded at me at a young age of like, I am just this jealous person that I really hated about myself, but for some reason I was really, I was just so proud of myself that I was like just able to just be so happy for her and just want her to continue to succeed and, and really

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  feel that in my bones. And, and then I was like, I really accepted it. Around 2014, I was like, you know what? I'm a touring comic. I headline clubs. I make good money. I, I don't have to ask my parents for money anymore. I get to appear on shows here and there. This is like a good life. This is successful. Like, I did it. Like, I, I am making a living doing stand-up comedy and that's enough. Like, I was really like, and I think I was also past the point of like wanting fame and kind of realizing that that was like, there was an emptiness to that that was never going to be satisfying enough, no matter how much I got it. So I just kind of like. I don't know, I just was, I let go and that's when I was able to-

• 1:02:52Kara Swisher?

  Maybe being older is better, right?

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  You know, I think it just, it allowed me to relax and not want it so badly and I think the industry rewards that, you know, like I was just able to do the things that I really wanted to do and not pick and choose projects based on is this going to be a cool look? Or is this going to get me to the next level? It was like, is this going to be fun and do I care about this? And so I was able to do better work because of that, because I wasn't constantly doing things that I felt like I should do. And I think that that is what I was ultimately rewarded for was that I, you know, the Tom Brady roast was like exactly the kind of thing that I was passionate about, that I knew that I was better at than most people is writing these kinds of jokes and I fought to get that position on that roast because I knew it was going to be a big deal and

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  I knew that I could kill it. So it was just, I think it, um, yeah, I think it was just, I, I really, it wasn't like, you know, that quote in Time that said like, I never thought I was going to have this kind of success that I have. It was almost, you read it and you think, oh, she was like sad about it. I wasn't even, I was like, I really was like, okay, good. You know, like this is, I'm so happy and I'm famous enough and then, and then it happened and I'm at this next level and now it's shitty because it feels like you have to maintain it and it feels like now it just can be taken away, whereas before I was the underdog.

• 1:04:12Kara Swisher?

  It's like rich people, they can't stop grabbing money.

• 1:04:15Speaker 00

  Yes, that's it, like I get it. And I, I understand that desire that it's never going to be enough and that you, and then it's going to, if you lose it, it's so much more embarrassing than not ever getting it. Because if you don't ever get it, not that many people know you didn't get it, you weren't that famous. But now a lot of people know I have it and now a lot of people can know that I lose it. And I think that's it and it will go away at some point because it always does and you can't take it with you and I'm going to die. And it's like, it's, it's, it's going to go away, so I'm, you know, I'm just trying to prolong it for what I don't know. I think I, there is a part of me now that just wants to hoard money so that I can have a nice bunker. I mean, that really is like a thing that I think about a lot, is like I just want-

• 1:04:59Kara Swisher?

  You don't want to live in a bunker.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  I don't, but like I want, I think my parents will want to, or my, my sister has a family. So she'll probably want to, you know, be living during the apocalypse. I'll, I'll just, you know, I'll off myself when I lock them in it. But I, um, I feel like that is like, that's now the, the goal is like,

• 1:05:17Kara Swisher?

  Good to have plans. Good to have.

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. It's, um,

• 1:05:21Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. I was talking to a really rich guy who has all these apocalypse plans and he, he told me them in detail. Very well-known person and he has a motorcycle that takes him to this place, told me where the address was. And he goes, what's your apocalypse plan? And I said, I'm going to come kill you and take you. You just told me the whole gameplay. And then he was like, wait a minute, I didn't think about that.

• 1:05:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. He needs like, he needs to stop telling people. I have one friend who's a billionaire and I'm really in her good graces. And I think I have a ticket to her bunker if I need it. But it's about like, okay, I, my boyfriend now has to like, learn how to fly a helicopter. Cause how are we going to get to that? Like there's, there's things that I think about and I put it off. And by the time it happens, I'm not going to be ready. I don't even have a go bag.

• 1:06:03Kara Swisher?

  Shaping up right now, your apocalypse girl.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's what keeps me going now and, um, and I'm just having fun.

• 1:06:12Kara Swisher?

  Now that we're having the apocalypse, is there anything, what is your next thing besides these new projects? Right? Continuing to do that.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it's, um, it's making more movies. I just finished this movie and it's going on tour again in August. And, um, and just, I'm, you know, my goal is this summer to completely keep it open and go to New York and work on my stand-up every single night, all day long. And, um, and that's pretty much it. I have to build a whole new hour. So it's also about going out there and living life and not working so much. So I have stuff to write about, you know?

• 1:06:41Kara Swisher?

  Yeah, that's true. You gotta do things. Well, I'll come watch you. I'll come watch you.

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  I would love to meet a person.

• 1:06:47Kara Swisher?

  New York for, uh, bring the kids up there. So I will come watch.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  I would love it anytime. And I wanted to say, I first found out about you, I was listening to the Succession podcast.

• 1:06:57Kara Swisher?

  Oh, that was a good podcast.

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  It was such a good podcast and I rarely do this, but I was just like, who is this lady? I was like, I was in my car and I have to say, I was like, I need to find out everything about her right now. Just your voice, just the The way you talked, I just was so drawn to you. You're so incredible. And it was, it sucked me right in. And your new docu-series on CNN is so compelling. It's so good and it's so funny. You're the perfect person to take us on that journey.

• 1:07:23Kara Swisher?

  Yeah. Where do you meet my Carrotar? When I create a digital version of me, a 3D version, you'll like that.

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 1:07:30Kara Swisher?

  It's very funny.

• 1:07:31Speaker 00

  I can't even believe that you did the, where you had to put your face in the aging thing and it tells you how old, like you did so much stuff that I was like, oh, I'm glad she is, she, she could do this because I would be.

• 1:07:41Kara Swisher?

  Thank you, Nikki.

• 1:07:42Speaker 00

  But they got it exactly spot on. That was incredible. And you showed us a side of Brian Johnson where I was like, I was watching with my boyfriend. I go, I actually, she, she made me kind of like this guy. I mean, you definitely.

• 1:07:53Kara Swisher?

  Except sad. I roasted him and made him a human.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  You roasted, you did a great job with him. I think he would, I'm sure he is even really happy with that appearance.

• 1:08:01Kara Swisher?

  I'm not so sure. No, he's not.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  He should be because I was terrified of him before. And I really afterwards was like, oh, he's sweet. And there's, you know, the sadness that it's like, oh, okay.

• 1:08:11Kara Swisher?

  At the very end of the show, I always, at the very end of every interview, I ask people how they want to die. Like, it's a question I ask everyone and we strung them together. Hands down, he had the best answer.

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Now I'm wondering how I want to die. But, um.

• 1:08:23Kara Swisher?

  Go ahead. Answer it.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  I think, I mean, I guess everyone just says in their sleep. But I also was thinking a bridge falling on me because I heard about a woman who got squished by a bridge and it just happens so fast that you don't hear it, you don't think about it, and you are like pulverized into dust immediately. And that, I think, I know it sounds really horrible, but I just wanted, I wanted to be as quick as possible. And I would like to just, they don't even have to cremate me. They can just, you know, I'm already dust because it would just be the most.

• 1:08:54Kara Swisher?

  I had not heard that one.

• 1:08:55Speaker 00

  And I wouldn't know about it. I would just be in traffic, like checking my ways, when I'm going to get there. And the answer is, I'm getting there right now. Don't know which way I'm going, but I'm, I'm on my way. But I hope no one else is injured in my bridge collapse.

• 1:09:07Kara Swisher?

  No one, no one. You're it. You're it. You're so far. Anyway, I really appreciate it. You're wonderful.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  You are so great to talk to. Thank you so much, Kara.

• 1:09:14Kara Swisher?

  Thank you.

• 1:09:17Kara Swisher?

  One more thing before we go. Want career advice from Kara Swisher? Now's your chance. We're doing a special episode all about it. And I want your questions. Send a video to on@voxmedia and you might be featured. I can't wait to see what you've got. I'm really interested in people's questions. And I've got a lot of good advice, as it turns out.

• 1:09:38Kara Swisher?

  Today's show was produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Michelle Aloy, Catherine Millsop, Megan Burney, and Kalen Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Madeline LePlante, Doobie, and Julia Sharp Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Aruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following this show, oh, fun. If not, you crashed in a private plane. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to Kara Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.