Catch Up 105 | Modern Wisdom Podcast 176

Jonny & Yusef join me again for another Catch Up episode. No agenda, no topics, just us talking about our lives & what we've been up to recently. Expect to learn what we think about Joe Rogan's move to Spotify, what Jonny's new morning ritual is, why Yusef is putting titanium stuff in his ears, why pigeons are having seizures and much more... Sponsor: Shop Tailored Athlete’s full range at https://link.tailoredathlete.co.uk/modernwisdom (FREE shipping automatically applied at checkout) Extra Stuff: Check out Jonny & Yusef's site - https://propanefitness.com/ Take a break from alcohol and upgrade your life - https://6monthssober.com/podcast Check out everything I recommend from books to products - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #joerogan #spotify #morningritual - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  Spotify paid what is rumored, he hasn't said it, Spotify paid around about 100 mil for Joe Rogan and increased their market cap by 5 billion.

• 0:09Jonny?

  How do you listen to Spotify on Apple device? So like they don't care. It doesn't really matter what Spotify do. Like if they get Joe Rogan, brilliant. And when you're making 10 billion in AirPods sales.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  So you're listening to Joe Rogan on Spotify on your Apple iPhone with your Apple AirPods.

• 0:23Jonny?

  So they're just thinking, fuck, Apple, Apple have really missed a missed an opportunity here.

• 0:33Chris Williamson?

  Johnny and Youssef from propanefitness.com. What's happening?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  What is happening?

• 0:40Chris Williamson?

  You well?

• 0:41Speaker 02

  Very good. We've had a had an extended sound check. We're crispy now.

• 0:47Chris Williamson?

  You guys started shouting limericks at me down the down the line. It was very interesting.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  It's just because I am not the pheasant plucker. I'm only his mate and I'm standing in for the pheasant plucker because the pheasant plucker is late.

• 0:59Chris Williamson?

  It was so good. I had no idea that that was what you were going to sound check. I just asked you to count to five. That's like getting a six nugget chicken nugget meal and finding out that there's seven nuggets in it. That's exactly what that is.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Okay. How do you feel about, you know, when you have like a pack of Monster Munch? This is a very like year five problem. And then at the bottom, you've got a ball of just pure seasoning.

• 1:23Chris Williamson?

  I don't remember that. I don't think that happened.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  That never happened to you? Surely?

• 1:29Jonny?

  You get it with like a cornetto or a flake 99.

• 1:32Chris Williamson?

  Oh, the chocolate, just pure chocolate.

• 1:34Jonny?

  Yeah. When it's overfilled with chocolate, you're like.

• 1:37Chris Williamson?

  That's something, that's something else. Well, what's another good one is when you used to have ice gems and then at the bottom corner of the little ice gem packet, there would just be some gems. Oh, sorry. Some iced. You know what I mean?

• 1:49Jonny?

  Those little biscuits with the little squirty thing.

• 1:51Chris Williamson?

  Ice gems are legit.

• 1:53Jonny?

  Do you ever think like, why, why would you ever stop making that?

• 1:56Chris Williamson?

  I don't think they have. I think they have just stopped eating them.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Chocolate one as well.

• 2:00Jonny?

  I don't, I've never seen them. Yeah. The chocolate one.

• 2:02Chris Williamson?

  How much time do you spend in the confectionery aisle though?

• 2:06Jonny?

  More time than you probably expect.

• 2:07Chris Williamson?

  Really? You don't have a massive sweet tooth?

• 2:10Jonny?

  I do. Well.

• 2:12Chris Williamson?

  Do you just not indulge it when we're out for dinner?

• 2:15Speaker 02

  There's a really good picture of Johnny's meal from a few years ago that we have on Instagram, which was him at the end of the day, realising that he's got a certain ratio of macros to make up and couldn't make it up through normal means. And so it's what looks like a pot of yoghurt with jelly tots in. But in fact, the perspective is wrong and it's actually a kilo of yoghurt with a multi bag of fruit pastels in it.

• 2:43Chris Williamson?

  Is it not the double? Or did you not used to do stuff with double deckers as well?

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, the double deck, yeah.

• 2:47Chris Williamson?

  Uh, Johnny, can you give me another, like, just a tiny little twist on your game, bro? Just a little bit, just a little bit. Seth's moved his mic in, so he's a little bit louder. Anyway, we are, so after that two minute intro, we are doing another catch up episode, just catching the fudge up, finding out what's been going on. Number one on the list, the biggest news in the world, apart from the pandemic that's running riot outside, uh, Joe Rogan moving to Spotify. So anybody who doesn't know what's going on, Joe Rogan has signed an exclusive long year deal, multi year deal, probably three or four years with Spotify. The rumored amount was a hundred mil. Now, I don't know if that's a hundred mil a year

• 3:28Chris Williamson?

  or a hundred mil total, but either way, it's a significant amount of money. It's the largest amount of money that a podcast has ever been paid for a platform exclusive. And I think that there's probably quite a lot of implications for what's going on here. So I'll give you a little bit of background. Um, Rogan announces that he's moving the entire podcast to Spotify. Every old episode will remain on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, wherever else you tune in. Um, but from the end of the year, it will be, the new episodes will only exist on Spotify and Spotify are going to create a video platform, exclusive, like create a video hosting platform in the app.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Just for Joe.

• 4:10Chris Williamson?

  Well, I'm presuming they will roll it out thereafter, but um, like on Apple Podcasts, at the moment, you can actually create video podcasts. Brian Rose breakdancing in the stairwell.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  They've had that for a while. We, we did it ages ago, but it rams your, uh, your

• 4:25Chris Williamson?

  Your storage up here on your on your hosting platform. So yeah, Spotify say that they're going to do that. All of Rogan's old stuff, but this means no more YouTube. It means no more Apple podcasts. He will continue to upload some clips to YouTube on the JRE Clips channel, which is good, I guess, for him, for the searchability, virality, people discovering the podcast. But full episodes, the only place that you can get them for presumably the next couple of years, at the very least, is going to be Spotify. That's audio and video. And then they he announced that the Spotify share price closed 8% up that night and then the next day did another 10%.

• 5:08Chris Williamson?

  So Spotify paid what is rumored, he hasn't said it, Spotify paid around about 100 mil for Joe Rogan and increased their market cap by 5 billion. So that's a 5,000 times return.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Pretty good move. 500.

• 5:25Chris Williamson?

  500.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:26Chris Williamson?

  50.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh my God. 100 million.

• 5:30Jonny?

  It's best or not, best or not.

• 5:31Chris Williamson?

  Whatever. Well, it's because it's American million and UK billion as well, right?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Because imperial measurements, isn't it?

• 5:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I know. How many is it? Can you tell me that in old money, please?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  What is it in stone?

• 5:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's 17 pounds and four ounces. So yeah, Rogan's made this move. 100 million to increase your market cap by 5 billion. No matter how many times that is, I know that's a good deal. Some of the other interesting things, Spotify pledged to spend 500 mil on podcast acquisitions during 2020. Now, a big chunk of that's gone on Rogan, but I don't know whether you guys know that they bought Anchor last year.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Anchor lever without you.

• 6:12Chris Williamson?

  I can't, I anchor lever it. I anchor lever it.

• 6:16Jonny?

  You mean Anchor like the butter manufacturer?

• 6:20Chris Williamson?

  Yes, and them. They bought every business that has the name Anchor. Now, every.

• 6:26Jonny?

  What is Anchor?

• 6:28Chris Williamson?

  So Anchor is a podcast hosting platform. It's one of these new ones. So you guys still on Libsyn? No, you're on Blueberry.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Better podcast platform.

• 6:40Chris Williamson?

  The one that no one uses that always breaks on you.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  The one that all of WordPress uses that's never broken.

• 6:46Chris Williamson?

  That's a lie. Don't lie. Anyway, so it's similar to that, but there's this new wave of podcast hosting platform like Anchor and what they allow you to do is actually create and edit your podcasts in the web app. So it's like GarageBand integrated into. So you upload your single file, you can clip stuff, you can add in intros, outros, upload your media library and stuff like that.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  See, there's a lot of low hanging fruit for that and it's mad that it's taken this long, given where we are in the curve of podcasts for something like that to come along. And I think this, that there's a lot of stuff related to the Spotify Joe Rogan takeover that is pointed out, like how, how many gaps there are in like really obvious gaps that you could easily take over.

• 7:36Chris Williamson?

  I've got, I've got some, some cool stuff for you guys to think about. And I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. And also everybody that's listening, I want to hear what you think. This is a big move. We are, myself, Johnny and Yousef are very interested in terms of both creators and consumers in the podcasting space. So it's like, it is the biggest news that's probably going to happen for quite a while. Patrick Bet Davies from ValueTainment reckons that within the next five years, we will see a $1 billion podcaster deal, which probably doesn't seem too ridiculous, considering that Rogan's already managed to get a million, sorry, a hundred million for his deal. So yeah, what you get with these sorts of hosting platforms like Anchor FM. So to not get

• 8:17Chris Williamson?

  too sort of nerdy into it, currently what most podcasts use is the RSS feed. So you upload a file and then that distributes to wherever you're listening to this. So it distributes to Apple Podcasts and Stitcher and Spotify actually is one of those. But the way that it works is it has a single file which is hosted, which is unmovable and unchanging. And then that gets sent out, it's syndicated to all of these different platforms, right? They're just an RSS, a glorified RSS reader.

• 8:48Chris Williamson?

  Spotify is intending on doing now that it's got Anchor as this creator, Anchor lever. Now that it's got that as its creation platform, they have started to introduce dynamically targeted ads mid-roll during podcasts. So if you ever listen to True Geordie, this is what I fucking hate. And this is a big implication for people that listen to podcasts, right? Listen to True Geordie and halfway through, there'll just be an advert for WH Smith's read by some fella. Like studio quality, like have you subscribed to your most recent edition of Gardening World? Well, why don't you head over to WH Smith's today and get £5 off with the code TRUEGEORDIE. Man, fuck mid-roll podcasts.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Spotify that's just can interrupt anyone's podcast and put in their own advert.

• 9:38Chris Williamson?

  No, technically no. So what will happen? And this is what I think will happen with Rogan. Rogan was making somewhere between, not including YouTube ad revenue. He was making somewhere between 50 grand and 150 grand per episode on his, based on his CPM. He does about 150 million downloads per month. He'll have discounts on the long-term deals, people that's been with him for years, like stamps.com have been with him for seven years. Onnit won't pay as much because he's a partner there, et cetera, et cetera. But Cash App has been with him for forever. Yeah. I think Squarespace as well, or like Wix or something. So what will happen? I don't think Rogan will be doing any more pre-roll podcast ads.

• 10:20Chris Williamson?

  I don't think he'll need to. Spotify might have even stipulated that he's not allowed to as a part of this deal. But what you will potentially start to see, if you're not on Spotify premium, is that you will be targeted with dynamic ads put mid-roll into the podcast. And what this means is that we're moving from, I saw this analogy online, and this is kind of the bit I wanted to give over to you guys. I saw this analogy on the, on the internet where someone said, podcasting at the moment feels like the internet in the early 2000s. Before everything was syndicated, before there was Google targeting and tracking pixels and Facebook ads and retargeting and all this sort of stuff. Where people were just. Saying that looks like the sort of site or podcast that my audience listens to.

• 11:05Chris Williamson?

  Cause being honest, like modern wisdom is now venturing into this world. We've got every episode now has got a sold out pre-roll ad. And very fortunate, some of the partners I work with, Alaco, Protein Works, Fitbook, Tailored Athlete, Reebok, you know, like huge Surfshark VPN, big companies that are prepared to pay like great money to be there. But they're just looking at me and going, yeah, yeah, you, you look, you, you look like, yeah, young people. That's what young people like, isn't it? Yeah. Give me a bit of the young people. But that's not like, that's not actually how targeting works. And that's not what advertisers want, like using a fucking discount code to track sales.

• 11:48Chris Williamson?

  Like, what would you say, Johnny, if I was like, oh, the most sophisticated format we have here? Is that someone's got to enter this particular bit of text?

• 11:57Jonny?

  Well, the worst thing about it is that like you're relying on the person reading out an advert for you. You know, you're spending all this money and then the way that's delivered is you basically send someone a text file. They have to read at the start of the podcast. You think, well,

• 12:12Chris Williamson?

  That's like, is that the? That being said, I think that, so there's two types of ads. There's dynamic and there's baked in. So the baked in ads, the host, host read pre-rolls are more expensive. And that's because making the host put it in their own words converts better. So me saying, this is what I like about the protein works because I do. This is why I enjoy the tailored athlete. This is why Surfshark VPN gets you access to Netflix's library. What I use it for bridges the gap between.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's not so jarring. It's not just a dude talking about WH Smith, just like, whoa, what's that? The, the difficulty is that when someone's heard an advert or even like a baked in thing, as you, as you said, and it's like, oh, remember to go to tim.blog/wealthfront/tim/50. You're like, I'm driving. I'm not going to remember that URL to go and.

• 13:03Jonny?

  Remembered it though.

• 13:04Chris Williamson?

  Well, you did.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Whatever. I butchered it, but like to come home and also not, not only remember the URL, but also remember that you even wanted to go and check that out. Whereas if you're on a platform. You know, like you're on Instagram, you'll be interrupted by an advert and you'll just go and click on it straight away and probably leave the platform if it's something you're interested in.

• 13:22Chris Williamson?

  Spotify might have not only a dynamic ad that gets put in at particular sections throughout the podcast, but then that ad might be matched with some sort of visual link.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  That's what they do currently because I'm, I think I'm the one, only one out of the three of us that's still on Spotify.

• 13:39Chris Williamson?

  The only person in the world that doesn't pay for Spotify. Yeah.

• 13:43Jonny?

  But you'll have a, you'll have a third party app, I imagine that blocks the advert.

• 13:47Chris Williamson?

  Spotify free.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Yep, there we go.

• 13:49Chris Williamson?

  Do you know why I know that? It's because I have just finished the life hacks, volume one ultimate life hacks list. Over, over 200 life, every life hack that we've ever featured. So anything that you do now, I know it. Because I've had to go back through and write a little, a little description of what it is.

• 14:08Jonny?

  You get release radar yourself?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good.

• 14:12Chris Williamson?

  What is that?

• 14:13Jonny?

  Discover what's release radar.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  It's a curated playlist of stuff that you might like. It's actually, it's one of the most impressive things about machine learning and kind of algorithms that I've found because like such a high proportion of the songs in release radar, I really like. And it's not just like, oh, you like young people music. So I'll put some of the young people stuff in it. It's like, it's really carefully done.

• 14:36Jonny?

  Yeah, I'd like a podcast release radar or like a discover weekly. Like radio radar is like usually it's a, it's a selection. So if you think about like, I know there's maybe a list of podcasts at the moment. People maybe haven't listened to a few, take it forward five years, people will probably be listening to even more podcasts. If you've got a curated list of like, here are the most popular releases from the podcasts you typically listen to in a list. If you just kind of work through as a playlist.

• 15:01Chris Williamson?

  Well, the problem is, Johnny, I need you to put more gain on, bro. If that's all right. The problem is that at the moment, as a advertiser or even as a podcaster, I don't really know who listens to this show. I have an idea of who listens to the show based on the Instagram DMs. I can look at the YouTube demos because they go quite in depth because you've got to sign up with your full account, gender, blah, blah, blah, location. But really you're just like shooting blind and just hoping that the content lands with people. And from a targeting perspective, that's obviously quite a big deal. So yeah, I just think. I was originally kind of like, oh God, it's a big change. I don't listen to podcasts on Spotify. I prefer Apple podcasts because it's native, because it's very, very smooth.

• 15:48Chris Williamson?

  Also, losing YouTube and losing the YouTube comments on episodes. I don't comment ever, but I enjoy looking at what goes on and I like to hear how it lands with other people. But you know, if Spotify see that and they're able to then create a platform which kind of reflects what's going on there. I guess that could be quite fun.

• 16:12Jonny?

  Yeah, I, the more I think about, I think the thing I was most sad about was the video, the loss of video. My mic okay now, by the way.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Lovely.

• 16:21Jonny?

  The loss of like, because I quite like, so for example, like the latest Elon Musk, Joe Rogan podcast. Like I, I've watched the, I haven't watched the whole thing, but I'm watching the video rather than listening to it. And for some reason, go on.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Does this mean that you can only watch the video on Spotify platform? Or that you have to pay a premium Joe Rogan subscription to see?

• 16:40Chris Williamson?

  No, so you will, you will be able to watch or listen to Joe Rogan for free on Spotify. Whether you have Spotify free or premium. However, I think if you don't have Spotify premium, you will be hit with dynamic mid roll ads.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Sure. So I, I heard rumors that the whole podcast was going to become a premium one. But I don't think that would be in his interest.

• 17:02Chris Williamson?

  In his, in his announcement about it, he says, he stipulates that's not what's happening.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Right. It's, yeah. And it's, I think from his perspective, like he's getting a hundred million. I don't think he's thought of this as a big like strategic move of the war between iTunes and Spotify and Netflix. I think he's just been like, yeah, a hundred million.

• 17:22Jonny?

  Does that now exceed the value of what I would expect to gain from continuing? Because like at the moment, his revenue model is hinged on production. Whereas it sounds like with Spotify, like as long as you are exclusive to us and continue just enjoying, like doing what you probably enjoy doing most in your life, then here's a hundred million.

• 17:40Chris Williamson?

  Well, regardless of what you listen on, I know Yusuf, you've kind of moved through a few different podcasting apps, but me and Johnny use Apple Podcasts. No matter what it is that you listen on now, you have to listen on Spotify. So it's quite a big signal from them to just say, look, this is the size of our penis. Our penis is so large, we've taken the biggest podcaster on the planet, not only if we, because he wasn't even on Spotify. So if you go on to Spotify now and search Joe Rogan, he hasn't got a single episode, except for the new trailer, which is like just a audio version of the announcement that he made on Instagram. And like for them to say, not only-

• 18:15Speaker 02

  They've gone from zero to exclusive Spotify.

• 18:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. And that is a huge move. Now, from my side, again, thinking about the fact that we're starting to slowly monetize this podcast and dealing with partners that I really love, like Joe's just told the world how much value is in podcasting and podcasters. Like every podcaster that's listening, whatever you're currently charging for your CPM, like treble it, because Rogan's just said that he's worth a hundred million and made Spotify five billion in two days.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  It's a very smart move from Spotify.

• 18:50Chris Williamson?

  It's so clever.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  I wonder whether Apple did a counter bid, or if they were just like, oh, bollocks, like we've just lost Joe.

• 18:58Chris Williamson?

  I can't see, I can't see them doing it, man. I could see, I could see him going to YouTube, speaking to Google and saying, look, I'm potentially leaving, what do you want to do? But he keeps on getting censored on there. So for instance, he can't stream other people's content. You know, he's always like, Jamie, don't put that up, we'll get taken, or Jamie's always like, don't put that up, we'll get taken down and stuff like that.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, YouTube are brutal and they just don't care because even Joe Rogan is just such a small proportion of their total traffic. They're just like, whatever. Yeah. But I'm, I'm surprised about Apple not putting in a, not throwing that hat in that ring because, so I just got a year of Apple TV for free. And Johnny's mentioned how they've really like thrown in some really high profile actors and- Just plowed budget into their stuff to really try and like catch up with Netflix and with Amazon TV, was it called Amazon Prime TV or something like, so they're really aggressively diving into these spaces and for them to just lose someone exclusively to Spotify when

• 20:02Speaker 02

  there's this constant, you know, the back and forth court cases that Spotify and Apple have where Spotify wouldn't allow them.

• 20:09Chris Williamson?

  Siri and stuff like that.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 20:11Jonny?

  Because like, how do you listen to Spotify?

• 20:14Speaker 02

  You have to open the app. You can't just be like.

• 20:16Jonny?

  On what though? An Apple device? So like, they don't care.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:20Jonny?

  Like, when you own the infrastructure that Spotify needs, like, it doesn't really matter what Spotify do. Like, if they get Joe Rogan, oh, brilliant. And when you're making, what was the figure I sent you? 10 billion in whatever that stuff was.

• 20:32Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:32Jonny?

  In AirPods sales.

• 20:35Chris Williamson?

  Mate.

• 20:35Jonny?

  Wrap, wrap your head around that figure.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  So you're listening to Joe Rogan on Spotify on your Apple iPhone with your Apple AirPods.

• 20:41Jonny?

  So they're just thinking, fuck, Apple, Apple have really missed a, missed an opportunity here, like.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  And one day they could just be like, oh, sorry, Spotify's broken on Apple iPhones now. Oh, what a shame. Oh, you're gonna have to use.

• 20:54Jonny?

  It's the guy, it's the guy sat in the, in the rocking chair in the corner smoking a cigar while everyone else has an argument, isn't it? It's just like, like wins regardless.

• 21:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. And then he just, he just does, he just does this and just goes like that. And then his driver comes over and then he leaves, just puts his hand in the air, just one finger in the air, raises it, and then he departs and everyone knows.

• 21:16Jonny?

  When he leaves, the entire building and everyone else disappears.

• 21:18Chris Williamson?

  Conversations, conversation's over. Yeah, exactly. Game, game is over. Okay. So that's, that's my thoughts on Rogan, man. Like, I, I was real hesitant when it first happened and I put a story up, um, that got, I don't think I've ever had so many replies, like hundreds of replies to me being sad about Joe Rogan changing. Main reason I was sad was because he promised he'd never go platform exclusive on the show. I'm like, people's priorities change. I get that. I just hope that it doesn't damage the, the quality of the content, you know, because he's, he's my sort of podcasting role model. He's the person that I've taken the most inspiration from. He's who I listen to the most consistently across time.

• 21:58Chris Williamson?

  And I just don't want the show to be to be damaged, you know, that people don't listen to him because of the fucking platform. They don't listen to him because of the ads. They listen to him because of the quality of the content. And if this enables him to put out better content, then I'm happy to pay the price of a little bit more friction of having to use Spotify.

• 22:18Jonny?

  Yeah, well, it's it's kind of it's behavior change, isn't it? As a as a consumer of the information. Because like something I've noticed over the past two years, my my YouTube usage usage has gone up. Like, I would never have really like sat and watched a YouTube video before. But there are things now that I'll happily sit and watch like a 10, 15, 20 minute video.

• 22:38Chris Williamson?

  What like?

• 22:39Jonny?

  And I think I can see myself, I don't use Spotify for podcasting at the moment or listening to podcasts, but the daily day goes by when I don't use Spotify. Why not?

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Like, what what what's the tech friction that's stopping you from using?

• 22:52Jonny?

  It's just the it's just the like the UI like it's not as it's not as easy to navigate between podcasts.

• 22:57Chris Williamson?

  Do you know how to get onto podcasts on Spotify? There's a like it's in the ass end of your library in the back end of the tabs.

• 23:05Chris Williamson?

  Like, I want a dedicated Spotify podcasts app.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  So I I think this would be a good thing for the UI as well, because if people start flocking to it, there's going to be pressure on their development team to make it more user friendly. Because if like and considering how simple these apps are all to use, if you're still not wanting to use it because of that, they're going to have to make a change, otherwise like people.

• 23:28Chris Williamson?

  At scale as well, billions of people using these apps.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Imagine the support tickets.

• 23:34Chris Williamson?

  Excuse me, mate. I can't get on the Joe Rogan. Yeah, it doesn't even bear thinking about, does it?

• 23:40Jonny?

  I imagine they does like Apple have a support inbox?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  They've just got a team of Irish geniuses that

• 23:48Chris Williamson?

  Genie.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Called Genie that call you back.

• 23:51Chris Williamson?

  They do. They love a phone call, don't they? They just want to get you off. I tell you what. So I'm, I'm going to start. As I keep on teasing out and as Greg McEwan red pilled me on my own show about blogging, I'm going to start writing and I spoke to Medium. So I went, this is so fucking mad, right? I went onto Medium to register Chris Will X, just my social handle. I'm going to go on there. Went on, tried to register it. This username is not available. Holy fucking shit. Has someone taken my, like, no one else wants that. It's very specific. Went on, searched 404. I was like, hang on. So why is there a 404 error if I put medium.com/ChrisWillX in? Emailed them, asked for a support ticket. Within 12 hours, they've come back to me and said, actually, because we're owned by Twitter.

• 24:35Chris Williamson?

  When we started Medium, we registered every verified Twitter's handle on Medium. So that it was reserved for that person. I can see that your Twitter account is linked to your Medium account. Would you like me to change that handle over for you? I was like, fucking yes, bro. How cool is that?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  So they're owned by Twitter.

• 24:54Chris Williamson?

  Twitter bought Medium about four, five years ago.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I love when you just hear about like, oh yeah, Uber bought KFC and Twitter bought Medium and Facebook bought WhatsApp and like, so the Telegram have bought or have created their own version of Medium, which is really interesting, but it's all obviously like blockchain verified and like super tech nerdy.

• 25:17Jonny?

  Telegram's just for people who worry a lot, isn't it? Basically.

• 25:21Chris Williamson?

  Have you been on Signal? Have you been on Signal?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Double speed voice messages. Oh, that's the perfect feature.

• 25:28Jonny?

  What did you say, Chris?

• 25:29Chris Williamson?

  Signal. Have you been on Signal?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  That's like super secure, isn't it?

• 25:33Chris Williamson?

  Signals another step up from Telegram.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  That's for like hitmen.

• 25:38Chris Williamson?

  No, no. So that's Wicca.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  Wicca.

• 25:41Chris Williamson?

  Have you heard of Wicca? W I C K. W I C K R. So you can't have messages that don't delete after five days on Wicca. You can't take, you can't take screenshots. No one uses their own, their real name. You have to have Face ID to even access the app. You can't turn it off. Like, mate, it's.

• 25:58Jonny?

  Thing is, like. What's the incentive of the person who's created that app? Like, let's make something where everyone puts their really top secret stuff in and we'll just tell them and gets deleted. Like, if I was going to harvest people's data, I'd go to that place. That's who I'd be.

• 26:10Chris Williamson?

  It's what Edward Snowden suggested people use for messaging. You know, if you're in some war torn country and you want to get your words out, organize a freedom rally or whatever you're supposed to do, supposed to do it on Wicca, yeah?

• 26:25Jonny?

  So if you were a government and you wanted to create an app that might warn you about uprisings, might it look something like Wicca?

• 26:34Chris Williamson?

  Probably, yeah. Probably, probably would, yeah.

• 26:39Chris Williamson?

  I don't know, man, that medium thing, I've started writing on Medium as well through the mobile app. And now this, I know, is total catastrophe, but I just wanted to see what the, what the writing process was like. Man, it's so good. Like, I'm going to guess both of you will have the app. Yeah?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  No. Not got the iPhone app, but we've got Medium account.

• 26:59Chris Williamson?

  It's worth, it's worth just downloading it just for, like, to have a play around on your next break or whatever. And anyone that's got Medium on their phone, just press the thing in the middle at the bottom, which is like to create. The writing experience is so beautiful. It's simplest thing in the world. I was just, you can just tell it's made by Twitter, you know?

• 27:15Speaker 02

  It's already a losing game if you're writing a blog post on your phone.

• 27:19Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Like.

• 27:20Chris Williamson?

  But if you were stuck on a plane or whatever like that.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Like.

• 27:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, true. You're going to get a.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  I've got a hook for a hand as well, so.

• 27:27Chris Williamson?

  Man who look like Captain Hook.

• 27:30Jonny?

  Like Captain Hook.

• 27:32Chris Williamson?

  You, you're going to get a plus sized phone next time. Is that right? Did you say that, Seth? You were considering getting the bigger screen version?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Oh, no, so the smaller one?

• 27:42Chris Williamson?

  Smaller one, that was it. No, but next time, did you not say you were going to upgrade and get the bigger one?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  I'll, I'll get the iPhone 12, whatever that is, just the one with the best camera. I don't care about screens. Well, I prefer a smaller screen. However, you know what's really annoying? Since I've gone from, this is such a first world problem, like this is like the epitome. iPhone 11, slightly bigger than iPhone 11 Pro. I gave my mum the iPhone 11, got the iPhone 11 Pro, which is this one, three cameras. Yeah, so that, that's it.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Just swapped it over. She, she needed a new phone, so just did it.

• 28:18Jonny?

  He bought a handset, he bought another handset.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, like a three way switcheroo.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  But it's because it's like slightly, slightly smaller. It used to be that in scrub pockets, the iPhone 11 like pushes it out and keeps it stable. Whereas now, because it's just got a little bit of leeway, every time you bend over or flex your hips or anything, it falls out.

• 28:38Chris Williamson?

  Rattling around.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  And they're just covered in COVID, just all over the phone. You're like, oh, great.

• 28:43Chris Williamson?

  That's awful. That is awful. So, okay, we've talked about Rogan, we've talked about how cool Medium is. What's been going on in your lives? What we catching up about?

• 28:54Jonny?

  I made a list of things.

• 28:55Chris Williamson?

  You made a list of things. This is like life.

• 28:59Jonny?

  Three things that have happened in my life.

• 29:00Chris Williamson?

  Life 101.

• 29:02Jonny?

  None of them are very interesting.

• 29:04Chris Williamson?

  But that doesn't matter. I'm gonna find him interesting.

• 29:08Jonny?

  Well, we'll see. We will see. I have been experimenting with morning pages. Has anybody ever done that before?

• 29:18Chris Williamson?

  By Julia Cameron.

• 29:20Jonny?

  Like the method of morning.

• 29:21Chris Williamson?

  You know who's on this, who's on the podcast on Friday?

• 29:24Jonny?

  Is it, is it the lady who?

• 29:26Chris Williamson?

  Julia Cameron, five million books sold, translated into 140 languages. Martin Scorsese is the testimonial on the inside cover of her book. Julia.

• 29:36Jonny?

  You can ask her, you can ask her about it. The Artist's Way.

• 29:39Chris Williamson?

  The Artist's Way, that's where Morning Pages is from, yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've, I've bought it and I'm using it every day.

• 29:48Jonny?

  Chris, shall we, shall we drop off? We'll have a chat about what he just said and then we can, we can come back.

• 29:52Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I don't think you're telling the truth.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm not. I just, I just thought it might upset Chris because he bought me a really nice copy of the five minute, six minute diary and it's just been under my table.

• 30:04Chris Williamson?

  In, in my defense, in my defense and your defense, I didn't buy you it. They're a sponsor of the podcast and I got it for free, so.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Still, it was a heartfelt gift.

• 30:12Jonny?

  And it was probably a task for you inside the six minute diary to give him, to give Yusuf a copy of the six minute diary.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Very clever, isn't it?

• 30:19Chris Williamson?

  Started reading it and was like, oh, this is, this is actually really well researched. Obviously had like enough momentum to overcome 30 pages of inertia, but you don't start writing until page 60 and he hasn't got another amount of momentum to get him out of it.

• 30:34Jonny?

  That's precisely it. I could imagine like the, you'll be sat there like.

• 30:44Jonny?

  You know, like you're looking at it and go like.

• 30:58Chris Williamson?

  Dean zooming, zooming on his face, man.

• 31:00Jonny?

  You've got to be, you've got to be caught in the like, I think if you don't, it's, it's like someone who watches a magician do a trick. You just the entire time thinks it's fake.

• 31:10Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 31:10Jonny?

  Do you know what I mean? Like, doesn't matter how good it is. Like, no, it was on, it was up your sleeve, it was under your shoe. And you just, I think you just look at it as like, it is a physical book that I have to use in the morning to write down three things that I'm happy about.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  So I, this, this may affect your explicit rating. And if so, I'm very sorry, but my flatmate, the other, like a couple of years ago was like, Yusuf, you come across as such a kind, lovely, compassionate, nice guy, but deep down, you're just an intolerant cunt. And I was like, yeah, I think that's, I can't really disagree with that.

• 31:45Jonny?

  It's because it's, it connects to, well, it's the architecture of a Scoby problem, isn't it?

• 31:49Chris Williamson?

  The problem else Scob. Yeah. Okay. So morning pages, you've been doing them. How have you creative, artist's way, creative process? Are you feeling more creative?

• 31:58Jonny?

  So I don't, I didn't, I wasn't using it for that reason. I, I'll tell you how I heard about it. So we interviewed a guy called Ali Abidal. I think I'm probably mis, mispronouncing his name. He's a, a doc, junior doctor with a huge YouTube channel. He does a lot about, makes a lot of videos about and a productivity and that sort of thing. He linked to a Tim Ferriss podcast where Tim Ferriss talks about morning pages as a style of journaling, journaling. And it's this thing that he recommends of like, step one, get everything like, it's like monkey mind out, down on paper. Before you move into planning or like coming up with a plan, the theory being if you sit down like journal or plan your day, but you're in like default setting in your OS, you'll just default to like negative planning, seeing downsides of things

• 32:44Jonny?

  and being reactive rather than proactive. So what, what I, from, to be honest, there's not very many resources. So I'm looking forward to this podcast. From Googling it and looking on YouTube, there's a lot of like. Fairly average, apart from Tim's video, fairly average guides on how to do it. But when, I suppose, when it, when you boil it down, you open a book and you just write whatever you was kind of on your mind for three pages. By hand and you start thinking, oh, this never know, but like people, I think there's an analogy of like, that's like saying. I'm stressed. So the way I'm going to deal with stress is like drive at a hundred miles an hour, drink loads of coffee. Like the idea is you're slowing it down.

• 33:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 33:23Jonny?

  So yeah, by writing, you have to slow the process down. So you do that.

• 33:25Chris Williamson?

  Amish approach, isn't it? It's the reason that the Amish are like fucking touted as productivity gurus.

• 33:31Jonny?

  Cause they just have to write everything.

• 33:32Chris Williamson?

  We move a little bit slower than most people, you know, and it's always filmed. There's always like cuts to a wide shot of them on the back of the cart behind the man riding on top of the horse. We, we like to move a little slower here. Yeah. Fucking hell, mate. Yeah. You talk slower as well.

• 33:53Jonny?

  So I've never seen that reference at all, Chris. So I just was wondering that whether you were okay.

• 33:58Chris Williamson?

  It's in Cal Newport's book, man. It's in Cal Newport's book. Yeah.

• 34:01Jonny?

  Shows how much I pay attention. But yeah, so that and then into kind of a second journaling practice, which would be like planning, planning my day.

• 34:10Jonny?

  I've, I've had been doing it long enough to, to, I certainly say anything negative or positive about it, but it does feel quite, it does feel like you're kind of letting a bit of the air out a little bit, you know, like you kind of do it and you're like, oh, that feels a bit better. I don't really know why, but like you kind of wake up and there's like stuff you want to just, then it kind of.

• 34:31Chris Williamson?

  I think that's, I think that's really cool. The only, the only challenge is going to be that like it, writing, handwriting three pages, even at like A5 must take, what, 15 minutes?

• 34:42Jonny?

  So full disclosure, I've been doing like a page and a bit. So like I'll frankly, like to, to write three pages. And maybe this is an error, to write three pages, I'd have to almost like sit and think of stuff to write about. So a page and a half probably takes like. Five, 10 minutes and like a little mole scale mole skin thing.

• 35:05Chris Williamson?

  Imagine, imagine how cool, I know it goes against the fact you got to write it by hand, but how cool would it be if you could just dictate it on your morning walk? You know, like as thoughts come up.

• 35:14Jonny?

  To be honest, that's probably, that's probably just as good. But I think if you're, if you're like getting your laptop out and typing it, it does defeat the point a little bit, I think.

• 35:23Chris Williamson?

  Well, you want to be, the, the point is that you just want low stimulus focus on the things going on. Okay, that's, that's a pretty, that's a pretty cool thing to have started doing, man. And I'd timely, given that Julia is coming on the podcast. At the end of this week, man, this woman, five million bucks, she'll be by far the bestselling author I've ever had. Like she pisses all over Robert Greene. That is so mad.

• 35:44Jonny?

  I've only heard of it because of Tim Ferriss.

• 35:46Chris Williamson?

  1992, it came out.

• 35:49Jonny?

  Right. Now, well, that might be why.

• 35:51Chris Williamson?

  Would that's it?

• 35:52Jonny?

  She's done some volume, hasn't she?

• 35:53Chris Williamson?

  Bro, 1992, she's written 40 books and like almost all of them, including the ones about prayer. Are best sellers? Mental. I'm like, I messaged my mom about it this morning because mom's doing a lot more right, uh, drawing. And I was like, mom, I got this lady on, this Julia Cameron lady. And, uh, she used to go out with, or she, she was married to like some insane director as well, at some top, top level, not Martin Scorsese, some top, top level director as well. Anyway, uh, Scope, what have you been doing? Anything?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Morning stuff. So I've set an automator script, um, on Mac to just keep wifi off until 10am. So that means that when I wake up, wifi is already off. I don't need to like, to do that. Admittedly, there's been a lot of emergencies recently where we've had to, we've had to undo that.

• 36:48Chris Williamson?

  Desperately tethering it to your phone.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, oh, but, uh, yeah. So along, it's on a similar vein of like creating a bit of space in the morning because I think. And luckily, we're in a privileged position to wake up and be so passionate about what we're doing that you are just like pulling at the reins to try and get started with what you're doing. But it's very easy then to just get pulled off into either the agenda of your, yeah, urgent inbox, or whatever is the first task to come up and not actually to step back and look strategically at what you're doing. So although-

• 37:22Jonny?

  What it feels like, just to interject with an analogy, you know, the, you know, on Family Guy, where he keeps running into the chicken. You know what I mean?

• 37:29Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  And gets beaten up.

• 37:30Chris Williamson?

  Always fights.

• 37:31Jonny?

  Like, he's like, that's the chicken behind the car. And then for five minutes, there's a fight sequence that's really elaborate. That's how most of my days feel.

• 37:38Chris Williamson?

  Every morning.

• 37:38Jonny?

  Like, start off with a plan, and the chicken just, like-

• 37:42Speaker 02

  I think particularly this year has been like that so much. And, you know, just because we've got more demands on, on us in general. And so, yeah, we're looking, we're, we're hiring out now, we're, we're doing a lot more in terms of spreading that load. But I've realised that out of the productivity principles of capture, review and do, I'm very good at capture and do, but terrible at review.

• 38:12Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, me too.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  And that's where things start to tank, because you end up doing a lot and capturing a lot. But it doesn't-

• 38:20Chris Williamson?

  Well, the reason, the reason I think that you do that is because of the illusion of progress, right? You're like, capturing feels like doing something. Doing is doing something by definition. But reviewing just feels like, oh, well, I can get by without reviewing, therefore I can do more doing.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, that's precisely it. You think, oh, well, if I don't review, then I can do more doing.

• 38:39Jonny?

  Exactly. Like, review's gonna take me 90 minutes. I don't have time for that. When actually, you don't, what you don't have time for is 90 minutes of doing the wrong things.

• 38:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, this, this hits the nail on the head. So I took Benjamin Hardy, PhD, the number one writer on all of Medium, was on the podcast this week, although the episode will come out in future, because this is going to go out now. I apologize for the, the contra logical way that podcast world works. But he gifted me his genius blogging course, which is- Basically, how do you get 400,000 email subscribers from just blogging, which he did in the space of three years? He's a monster.

• 39:17Jonny?

  It's crazy.

• 39:18Chris Williamson?

  And I did the whole course in a day yesterday. And like, the main thing that he does is write the headline, iterate it 30 times, write the subheadings as many as you can. Then the article will fall into place, but for every minute that you spend planning, you save yourself 10 minutes of writing. And there's so many like implications about just life to do with that, you know? Like people that don't have a morning routine, they get up and think that they can crack on with their day more quickly because they haven't prepped themselves in a morning. It's like, new.

• 39:51Jonny?

  Like the argument that people give against meditating, like I don't have time to meditate. But then it's like the.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Well, this is the Dalai Lama quote, isn't it? You should sit for half an hour a day, or if you don't have time, you should sit for an hour.

• 40:07Jonny?

  Exactly.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Just like, ah, damn it. So that that's been the the big lesson. So since we last caught up, yeah.

• 40:16Jonny?

  Why don't you just use like, so I imagine what you're trying to block is email mainly? Or inbound communication?

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Inbound communication.

• 40:27Jonny?

  Do you not find you need the internet for stuff?

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Sometimes, but I think sometimes that's a lie that I'm telling myself and actually. And so this this actually, this does bring me on to the next thing, which is that there's a lot of stuff that I need to do. Now daily to keep up with with the social media strategy that we're following at the minute. That has to be done offline, because if it's done online, you end up with too many distractions and low output. Chris looks very confused.

• 40:57Chris Williamson?

  I just thought that the whole concept of your guys' new social media strategy was that it was done in advance and then and then mostly automated.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Half and half.

• 41:08Chris Williamson?

  What's the, what's it, cause I've seen you replying to stuff more like you replied to Thiago Forte saying you don't need to like low key pretend that I'm one of your secret gurus or something. It was, it was like, but just not a sort of tweet. I would have thought that you guys had done. So you trying to do more automation plus more actual like viral organic like on

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Yes. So I think you have to have a combination because the platform wants you to play the game as it's intended to be played. And so if you are always doing tweet threads, it's not really how Twitter's intended to be, you know, it's meant to be 140 characters. So, and if you're always scheduling stuff, again, it's, it's

• 41:43Chris Williamson?

  You don't get any, you're not interacting, are you? You're just broadcasting.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  And if, you know, if you're not, if you're taking people off platform a lot, it's also not ideal. So it does need, I think, like, I see it as the embers are the, the scheduled posts. And then you go in at strategic times of the day and you bulk respond, or you do Instagram stories or, or whatever. So creating that content in bulk, I think, has to be done offline and just sit down in the same way that you'd write a blog post, you know, to write a lot of tweets. So that's been, that's been my main shift at the minute. And it seems to be working like the propane fitness Twitter, have a look at it on there. We've, we've just been, it's just quite a nice platform. Once you get out of the weird corners of where everyone's just flexing about their Lamborghinis and

• 42:30Chris Williamson?

  Have you tried unfollowing a big chunk of people?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Anyone that mentions coffee or cold showers in their tweets or like seven figure.

• 42:39Chris Williamson?

  That would be Johnny. That would be, if you had a Twitter, Johnny.

• 42:43Jonny?

  Yeah. But it's, so it's precisely that I don't have a Twitter. I'm too busy drinking coffee and having cold showers.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Those are the real, those are the real cold exposure motherfuckers. The ones who are so cold. That they can't even type. Yes.

• 42:59Jonny?

  I'm just in my brainstem so that I can't like Twitter's.

• 43:03Chris Williamson?

  Breathe into the brainstem.

• 43:06Jonny?

  When are you going to get Wim Hof on the podcast, Chris?

• 43:08Chris Williamson?

  Oh, fuck knows, man. I met a girl who works at the School of Life, shout out Chanel. Met a girl who works at the School of Life and their Christmas, she told me this story, man. Their Christmas party organized by Alain de Botton, who is, he's like owner and CEO as well. I didn't realize he's, he's like everything to that company. He organized and she was telling me, it's just like a normal girl, not really into sort of self-development or whatever. And was just like, oh, so you organized this Christmas party and this guy turned up and he had a beard and he made us do loads of breathing. I was like, hang on a second. Can I just get a photo up of a man with a beard who does some breathing? And can you tell me if that's him, please?

• 43:52Chris Williamson?

  And she's like, well, you can do, but I fell asleep three minutes into this like studio group work. So he got, he got them all to lie down on yoga mats. It's like maybe 20 people. And so I'm like, okay, can you text someone who didn't fall asleep, please? And ask them if the man that gave you small group coaching was Wim Hof? Texted them, reply came back, yes, it was. I was like, you fucking fell asleep to the number one breath coach on the planet. She's like, yeah, yeah. Well, I was a bit hungover and we were going on a night out that night and this, I was thinking, oh.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  It's like someone's parked a Ferrari in your back garden and you're like, oh, that's a nice new garden shed. And you start like putting your spades in it and, and you're like, yeah, it's, it's been, it's been an all right shed. It's a bit, bit cramped, but you know, it does the job.

• 44:45Jonny?

  He did a, he's done a new, you know, have you both seen the Vice documentary with them on? I imagine you both have.

• 44:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, quite a while.

• 44:51Jonny?

  It was a while, it was quite old. He's done another one with a YouTube channel, a very well-known YouTube channel. They're known for like discomfort and stuff. So he just puts them straight into an ice cold river with very little prep. So like normally it's like three days of breath work, building up your cold exposure. So he's like, this is going to be done with just the brain and puts them straight into 10 minutes of an ice cold river in like the middle of Poland. One guy is clearly like. Right on the, right on the limit. He's like sat, sitting, looking concerned and Wim's just going, oh, no.

• 45:24Chris Williamson?

  So Wim's in with them, is he?

• 45:26Jonny?

  Wim's in with them, just not phased. And these guys who like find discomfort for a, for a living and document it are struggling.

• 45:33Chris Williamson?

  Geez.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  So mad. Have, have either of you guys heard of Connor Murphy?

• 45:38Chris Williamson?

  Connor Murphy?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  So he is a YouTuber that does a lot of quite vapid videos that are just him going around a bit called like shirtless prank, whatever. So he's in like a fleece with some padding and then he's like, he's wearing glasses and he's like, goes to these groups of girls and he's like, hey, so here, here's a picture of this guy, like, would, would you pump or dump? Like, and they're all like, oh, I would pump. And they're, and he's like, okay, well, he's actually here right now. And they're like, what? No, he's not. And he's like, yeah, if you just close your, and he takes off his glasses and he like, he's topless. There's just loads of that, but just repeated. So it's quite a like, um, silly YouTube channel. And he's been, he'd been posting that stuff for ages, like prolific with it.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  And over the last three weeks, I fully recommend, if you haven't heard of this, go and check this out because it's, I mean, it's quite, it's quite heartbreaking really. But maybe three weeks ago, he's clearly had a psychotic break, um, maybe taken ayahuasca based on some of the things that he said. And his videos have just changed entirely to enlightening my friend, enlightening my manager, enlightening my parents. And it's just a Zoom call of him crying, talking absolute nonsense.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  And like, completely lost it. And like, I, I, I think the, the guy needs help, but like, people are commenting being like, not being able to take the show off in public during quarantines really got to Connor these days, like.

• 47:02Jonny?

  Maybe he doesn't need help.

• 47:04Chris Williamson?

  Maybe, maybe he is the, the arbiter of wisdom. Yeah.

• 47:08Jonny?

  He is the help.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Possibly.

• 47:10Chris Williamson?

  Have you considered that he might just be enlightening everyone with his, with his, his tears?

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 47:18Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, man. So I mean, this is, that's one of the problems of having a persona. Like, tons and tons of people have personas. It's fine. Like, if you want to go through your life and not do the introspective work and not deprogram all of the bits and pieces, like, have at it. But when you then have millions of YouTube subscribers or followers online, you, you margin, you leverage, you've like entered a position and then leveraged it 50, 100, 10,000 times. And you realise the persona gets much, much bigger than it would have been. And then the observers and commenters on the downfall are also like significantly, part of orders of magnitude bigger.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  That's so true. It's leveraging your trade, isn't it? Like, having a psychotic breakdown is bad enough, but doing it with like 1.7 million subscribers or whatever.

• 48:07Jonny?

  A hundred miles an hour.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Oh, God. And his parents are just like, Connor, are you joking with us? Like, I don't know what's going on. Like, we're, we're proud of you. And then his dad just, it's like a two hour long thing. And his dad just leaves halfway through.

• 48:23Chris Williamson?

  Fuck, man.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  He just leaves his camera on. Just empty room.

• 48:27Chris Williamson?

  Jesus. Psychedelic's one hell of a drug.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Pretty scary stuff.

• 48:32Jonny?

  The final boss in the last level, isn't it?

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Johnny, you said you had, you had three things. One of them was more than pages.

• 48:38Jonny?

  The other one's a shite, man.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Oh, go on.

• 48:41Jonny?

  I just, just to raise something first. Did you both see that Elon Musk talk about being?

• 48:46Chris Williamson?

  Redpilled.

• 48:48Jonny?

  Well, I mean, I don't know what you mean by redpilled.

• 48:52Chris Williamson?

  Was it the cancel, cancel culture one?

• 48:54Jonny?

  No, the one where he just talks about how he's giving everything away.

• 48:57Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah, on Joe Rogan.

• 48:57Jonny?

  Giving away all his shit.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Alex Becker.

• 49:00Jonny?

  Do you know who Alex Becker is, Chris?

• 49:02Speaker 02

  He's the wokest empty house trillionaire.

• 49:05Jonny?

  He's got a, he's got a, yeah, he's got a YouTube channel where he's, he's very, he's quite arrogant in the first segment of every video, but very aware of the fact that he's arrogant. And his latest video is like, can you believe that Elon Musk is trying to mimic me? Like, this is unacceptable. But anyway, so Elon Musk's giving everything away. I just thought that was interesting.

• 49:21Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what is reason? Well, you'll, you'll know it, but Yusuf, so this is the most Elon Musk thing that you could ever say about why. So Rogan's like, am I right in thinking that you're selling like all your cars, except for a couple of Teslas, all your possessions, all your houses, selling everything that you own? And Musk's like. Yes. So why is that? And he pauses for ages. I don't know whether it's because on the most recent Rogan, he's like, feeling a little bit anxious. Last time he tanked his stock price. Maybe he's just in a weird space, like from work or whatever, but he's, he's not flowing at the same rate he was last time with Rogan.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Elon boat 2.0.

• 50:02Chris Williamson?

  Even that was like a trickle. And this is just like a single drip, once every 30 seconds. He's so slow, which is kind of nice. It's considered and cool and interesting if you want that, but it's not for a lot of people. I doubt it would have been quite as engaging. But anyway, he, um, he's sort of, why, why are you selling all of your stuff? And he goes, whoa, kind of, I kind of see possessions as an attack vector.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  That's a very Elon thing to say. It's, it's because he's just had R2-D2 and he wants to make sure that he's.

• 50:36Chris Williamson?

  So R3-D2, that's what he wants next, isn't it?

• 50:39Speaker 02

  That's his new son, isn't it?

• 50:41Jonny?

  Yeah, yeah. How he, he added like A12 or something onto the name. And that's related to a bomber or a jet or something, or a CIA secret project or something like that.

• 50:50Chris Williamson?

  It was the, it was the predecessor to the Blackbird or whatever it was.

• 50:55Jonny?

  That's it.

• 50:56Chris Williamson?

  The first iteration of the.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  How to get your son bullied. I suppose if you, it like, you're going to have a jetpack anyway, and like a cyborg thing on your head.

• 51:06Jonny?

  He'd be the first one on Mars. So it won't matter if you get bullied on it. It's fine.

• 51:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Jonny?

  But, um, when he, when Joe asks him about, because Elon's like, oh, it's been really interesting having a kid because you, you watch them learn and you realize that actually like the neural net of a, of a, of an AI is really similar to a human brain and stuff like that. And you're like, like part of me thinks, Elon, that's a weird thing to say, mate. But at the other time, at the other side, like, I've been thinking about that conversation about AI since I listened to it, which was about a week ago or whenever it came out. Cause Joe's like, why would you want to mimic an AI? I can't remember the exact question. It's like, why isn't AI trying to be like a human? And then Elon's like, well, A like you take parts of it, but you don't exactly duplicate it. So like a plane doesn't fly like a bird, a submarine doesn't swim like a fish. You take like the underlying principle and make it more efficient in doing the thing that you're trying to make it do.

• 51:56Jonny?

  I just think when I hear Elon Musk talk about AI, he's so comfortable with it about what is, well, obviously it can.

• 52:02Chris Williamson?

  But his, his, it's like hearing anyone that's an expert in anything that he evidently has to do a lot of work to take himself from where he is to down to the level. Yeah, he nosedives by 40,000 feet in a desperate attempt to use language, which is even slightly understandable to the cleverest people that are listening. And it's, that's what I think a lot of the work is that he's conscious of the fact that he could talk about like the synaptic properties of myelin wrapping around like blah, blah. But what he actually needs to say is it's, it's kind of a little bit like the internet or like it's a little bit like, you know, like he needs to, everything's, everything's an analogy that normal people can, can understand.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  He's just such a first principles guy, isn't he?

• 52:49Chris Williamson?

  He's a motherfucker, man. He's such a motherfucker. And the fact that you've been thinking about his conversation for this long shows that it's a, ah, yeah, maybe if there's ever something that you hear at the time that you're like, oh, it's fucking shit. And it sticks with you for a long time. That means that the person that said it is far smarter than you are and you have then been forced to reflect on it.

• 53:12Jonny?

  Yeah, to him, it's completely obvious. But then when you're like, fuck, yeah.

• 53:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah. He's a, he's an absolute badass. Seth, have you been doing anything else? Any other stuff been happening? What's that? What you got in your hands?

• 53:26Jonny?

  A little net.

• 53:27Chris Williamson?

  Oh, it's your sleeping things.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  I got some titanium earplugs.

• 53:33Jonny?

  I saw an Instagram ad for them this morning.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Did you? You've probably been retargeted because so, yeah, I'm, I'm getting some really good Instagram adverts at the minute, you know, like they're all stuff like that is bang on what I would like.

• 53:44Jonny?

  I was talking to Becker about this yesterday, the other day.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm coming around to your idea, Johnny, that like, you know, people are like, oh, I don't want Facebook knowing my, whereas I'm like, well, actually if they get me cool stuff like this.

• 53:53Jonny?

  You don't want shit advertised.

• 53:55Chris Williamson?

  You do know that you two have the same Instagram.

• 53:57Jonny?

  Yeah, I know. That's what's most impressive about it.

• 54:00Chris Williamson?

  But you're like, yeah, both of your interests are quite aligned. Like both of you would look at a pair of titanium sleeping earplugs and go. Yeah. The, yeah.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  The only difference between me and Johnny is one's paid and one's organic, but like.

• 54:15Chris Williamson?

  I thought one was, one was Arab and one was Aryan. Is that not the difference?

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, one's Syrian, dry roasted and.

• 54:23Jonny?

  I think one's, it's one.

• 54:24Chris Williamson?

  Carbonated.

• 54:25Jonny?

  One's paid and the other one tries to use ad credit vouchers.

• 54:34Jonny?

  I'm sorry, that was, that was.

• 54:36Chris Williamson?

  So tell us, you've got, you've got some earplugs. What are they?

• 54:39Speaker 02

  So you know, I was saying on the last episode that my neighbors have the loudest sex at all times of day. The guy is some kind of stallion going at like 45 minutes at a time, just like ramming the headboard. I can only assume it's that. It might, they might be doing like the Joe Wicks, um, daily bash furniture around.

• 54:57Chris Williamson?

  Workout.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  But yeah, perfect. The titanium in the center is meant to cut out bass frequencies and that they are pretty silent.

• 55:06Jonny?

  So you know what worries me about stuff like that is that someone's going to sneak up on me in the, in the middle of the night and I won't be able to hear them. Which I know is ridiculous.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Luckily I've got the shoehorn that you guys got me and it's the perfect weapon. It's right next to the, the door.

• 55:20Chris Williamson?

  It is a fucking weapon.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  It's got such a weighted tip as well.

• 55:23Chris Williamson?

  I know. Dean's got the same one, man.

• 55:25Jonny?

  I bought an eye mask from, uh, Amazon that's got like a ring around it that sits on your eyes. So do you either use an eye mask?

• 55:36Chris Williamson?

  Well, we covered this on a, a LifeX episode.

• 55:38Jonny?

  Did I talk about my eye mask? Did I?

• 55:41Chris Williamson?

  Shit. Well, not that it's a bad thing. Tell us again. Some people want.

• 55:43Jonny?

  Well, it's just, so, so normally an eye mask is like presses on your face. And when you try and open and close your eyes, it, it obviously the eye mask resists against the eyelid movement. So you become more aware of it. You're more likely to pull it off. This one has foam rings that lifts it away from your eyes. So your eyes are free, can move freely. And then you basically just feel like you're in a dark room. It's quite strange. It's very good.

• 56:06Chris Williamson?

  I'd heard something to do with, uh, how much dry your eyes are when you have an eye mask which presses on your eyelids as well. Because any, yeah, any, um, moisture or whatever that's seeping through your eyelids will get picked up by Yusuf's gone and got. Is that the same one? Is that the exact one?

• 56:22Jonny?

  It's not exactly. It's very, very similar. Extremely similar.

• 56:25Chris Williamson?

  Go put it on for us, Yusuf. Wow.

• 56:29Jonny?

  So what's the, what's the light seepage like? Like, can you still see light around, probably around the bridge of your nose, I imagine?

• 56:35Speaker 02

  If I move it down a bit, then zero.

• 56:37Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Chris Williamson?

  That is peak virgin, isn't it?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Pretty complete. Well, you know what? It's also peak virgin.

• 56:43Jonny?

  Either virgin or long-term relationship.

• 56:44Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, one of the two.

• 56:45Jonny?

  Nowhere in between.

• 56:46Chris Williamson?

  Well, I mean, that's, that's both me and you, that, isn't it? Is that velvet, a velvet finish? Oh, he can't hear us.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at that. Whoa.

• 56:54Chris Williamson?

  Oh, you can hear us. He's, he's unplugged his headphones. You don't fuck about, man.

• 56:58Jonny?

  Um, yeah.

• 57:00Chris Williamson?

  So, yeah, and what's your sleep? Have you been alternating tracking sleep quality on Whoop? Eye mask? No eye mask?

• 57:09Jonny?

  Yeah, I have the eye mask thing on. Yeah. I've also been, I was telling you about the, um, four-sigmatic reishi, uh, elixir that I've been trying. I told you about that.

• 57:19Chris Williamson?

  It's mushroom. It's something to do with, if it's from four-sigmatic.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Elixir, set an alarm for 9am. Add this to my shopping list.

• 57:27Jonny?

  Elixir, Elixir. Um, no, so it's a, it's, I mean, to be honest, it's lovely. It's like a hot chocolate. Um, but it's got mushroom in, but you can't taste the mushroom. It just tastes like an earthy hot chocolate. Um, that I think it affects. So I drink that and then I meditate and then I go to bed. I think it causes low level, like, things to happen in my visual field when I'm meditating.

• 57:56Chris Williamson?

  How soon after drinking it do you meditate?

• 58:01Jonny?

  Um.

• 58:04Jonny?

  10 minutes.

• 58:05Chris Williamson?

  How long does something take to go from mouth to any area of the body which can absorb whatever's just gone into your mouth, Yusuf?

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Could be from instant to several hours.

• 58:17Jonny?

  Like, it may, it may, it may not be that.

• 58:19Chris Williamson?

  I just think unless it's, unless it's literally going through the capillaries of your mouth, like sublingually, it, it seems unlikely that it's going to.

• 58:26Jonny?

  Completely agree. Completely agree. It's purely anecdotal that I think that might be what I've experienced.

• 58:31Chris Williamson?

  I'm excited, I'm excited to try that, man. I've, I've been foxing around with some serious supplements recently. So, um, Jigsaw Health, that was a company that Ben Greenfield advised for magnesium supplements, number one magnesium supplement in America, like very ex, very expensive. Well, not very expensive. They're like, they're. Premium, premium quality. It's like buying the best of anything, I suppose. When you compare it with my proteins, ZMA tablets or whatever, you know, like anything's going to be expensive compared with that.

• 59:01Jonny?

  Which is exactly what I have.

• 59:02Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So this, this stuff, they have Mag SRT, which is slow release. You take through the day. So you take four of those through the day and then they have Mag Soothe on a nighttime, which is a pre-bed drink, like a tart cherry sort of drink. Really, really nice. But the volume of magnesium that I'm getting in me is so high that I can't even track the actual amount on Whoop. So Whoop's maximum amount is 600mg and I'm well over that because of this amount.

• 59:31Jonny?

  Shellate, shellate, magnesium, shellate.

• 59:34Chris Williamson?

  I can't remember. I'm not sure. So that, and then they make this adrenal cocktail, which is, what's, what's shellate mean? Is that the, is that the serious shit?

• 59:45Jonny?

  When you hear people, when you get into the world, the magnesium world, which is bigger than you'd think. A lot of people talk about chelated, a chelated form of magnesium as being the best for pre-sleep, which is what is in this.

• 59:57Chris Williamson?

  It's, it's really legit. So that plus I've got, finally managed to find a good CBD brand. And the most recent stuff that I've got is 10,000mg. So the, the concentration's insane. It's like the most viscous thing that you've ever seen. So that plus the Mag SRT plus this new Mag Soothe is, I've just been fucking, because why not? You've got nothing else to do during lockdown. That and then adrenal cocktail on a morning. Also now doing NAD and NMN and resveratrol every day.

• 1:00:31Jonny?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:32Chris Williamson?

  Interesting impact on mood, interesting impact on training output and other bits and pieces, but fuck knows what's going on, man, you know? Fuck knows.

• 1:00:42Jonny?

  You just did a video about CBD.

• 1:00:45Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  I have actually.

• 1:00:46Chris Williamson?

  Hit us, tell us, what do you, what do you know about CBD?

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Well, well received. Well, so the, the full, full breakdowns on our, on the website, but it just basically.

• 1:00:55Chris Williamson?

  Sorry, is it available on YouTube as well?

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  On, sorry, on YouTube. Yep.

• 1:00:59Chris Williamson?

  On the website.

• 1:01:02Chris Williamson?

  The video site.

• 1:01:03Jonny?

  The site, the site that we have.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  So the, the framing of the question, and actually every time we're asked about CBD, people are like, oh, can you talk to us about the benefits of CBD? And you're like, well, even in the question, you've, you've framed it as like you wanting it to be beneficial. And. Ultimately, it's a neurotransmitter that is gonna be, it's gonna have a wide range of functions. So I just talked through the data on mood, sleep, anxiety, like all these kind of, these kind of effects. And the, the answer is really that it has some effect for certain problems, but it's new. We don't know a massive amount about it. And personally, I like, I think

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  I've not had any personal experience with this. So I can't talk anecdotally. It's just some of the data on it. But to be honest, I recorded it over a year ago and just uploaded it because someone was asking me about it. So I think we'll, we'll all have to go back and watch the video to

• 1:02:01Chris Williamson?

  Let me see, let me see if I can speak to the company that sent this. It's basically each bottle is over a hundred, it's a hundred and ten pounds a bottle of this stuff for like

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Is this the CBD or magnesium?

• 1:02:15Chris Williamson?

  CBD. The Magsoothe, Magsoothe's much more.

• 1:02:19Jonny?

  What do you, what do you, do you get, is it a relaxation benefit from CBD?

• 1:02:23Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, the, the problem is that because I received everything at the same time, adrenal cocktail, Mag SRT, Magsoothe, and yeah, and that like, I, I have no way of identifying what's happening.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  That pre-workout you gave me, Chris, like, I've not even touched it because it's terrifying. Some of the

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, like blue raspberry pot.

• 1:02:46Chris Williamson?

  That's, that's a, that's a nootropic. That's not a pre-workout.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  It certainly looks

• 1:02:50Chris Williamson?

  Endless, endless, endless.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, that's something that I want to give away to Johnny's mate who just loves pre-workouts and that kind of thing. Cause

• 1:03:01Chris Williamson?

  I hope he's not, uh, there's no beta alanine in it. There's no, uh, nitric oxide in it. There's

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Only like 10 grams of caffeine. I mean, what, what's that gonna do?

• 1:03:10Jonny?

  How many grams are there in, in it really? What's the, what's it? Because I imagine that's normally what you're most scared of is the caffeine.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  It's the caffeine, but there's loads of stuff in there that you like, who, who pissy and A and all this stuff that you just like, stuff that's, that's giving pigeons seizures. You know, I, I think I'm, I'm all right.

• 1:03:47Chris Williamson?

  Oh god.

• 1:03:48Jonny?

  What's most enjoyable is just imagining what it must be like to be burdened with this kind of knowledge that you have. That you know off the top of your head.

• 1:04:02Jonny?

  Is how it plays out in reality is you pick up the tub, you look at the back and you go.

• 1:04:08Chris Williamson?

  Pigeon seizure.

• 1:04:10Jonny?

  This is giving, this would give a pigeon a seizure.

• 1:04:13Chris Williamson?

  What was it you told us about the other day where you found out it was the main ingredient in Fabreeze?

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Oh, the cyclical.

• 1:04:21Jonny?

  Ciclic dextrin.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Ciclic dextrin, yeah, because it just binds to all the smell.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  Something that cracked me up the other day is, so when, when you're in a hospital, obviously, like, you've got the standard doses of stuff that you would give, and like, the upper end of those doses, you're like, whoa, that's a bit scary, like, and sometimes, like, we had a guy in a cardiac arrhythmia the other day, and he had very low magnesium on his, like, serum magnesium on his previous, uh, blood test. And we were like, oh, we should give him some replacement, think it needs to be IV max dose, so I can't remember off the top of my head, something like 500 milligrams. And so we, like, I called the cardiology registrar, I was like, I want to give some, you know, is 500 milligrams okay? Like, he's quite low, and he was like, oh, just slap in two grams. Like, two grams, like, th- this is, you know, and it says on, like, the, the formulary,

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  like, do not give more than 500 milligrams, and you're like, okay, you're the expert, but when, when someone in their specialty's like, it'd be fine, just give four times the maximum amount.

• 1:05:20Jonny?

  In that scenario, you don't think like, fuck, I should record this, I should get this guy to sign something.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  So I, I know someone that, when they, when, so Sadie, when she gets, like, dodgy advice from someone, or they're dismissive, she's like, okay, no problem, I'll just document that, what's your full name and GMC number? Okay, thank you, and, um, and then, oh, uh, okay, and they'll.

• 1:05:39Chris Williamson?

  Well, isn't it, isn't it the case that, and this is something that, um, keeps on being brought up by Ben Shapiro, which, again, man. I'm not, I'm not going to be a Ben Shapiro fan for the rest of my life. I'm not going to be like an avid listener, but fuck me at the moment during COVID. He's such a great wealth of information. Bro, honestly, and the fact he speaks at two times speed means you don't need to put two times speed on, which is, you know, also, also a good benefit. Um, one of the things that he's talking about at the moment is this Dr. Fauci, um, who's the guy that's guiding most of the epidemiology for America, being criticized for the fact that he says that reopening is going to increase deaths.

• 1:06:19Chris Williamson?

  But there's a, um, was it perverse incentives going on here? Because Dr. Fauci, if he says that doing something won't cause deaths and then some deaths happen, he fucked. Whereas if he always earns wildly on the side of caution, like no one is ever going to string him up for saying that people shouldn't do something, then them not doing it doesn't cause and, and the deaths don't occur, you know?

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  That's a very good point. Like if the economy collapses, you can be like, well, I was just given medical advice. So.

• 1:06:51Chris Williamson?

  Well, that's also, that's the thing. That's the thing. The, the point is that virologists, epidemiologists, public health experts, their job is not to get the economy moving. Their job is to try and reduce the number of infections. They don't care about the collateral damage because that's not their specialty. Like the specialty for, I mean, who is it? Is it an economist? Or like, I guess, like an industry?

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, just like all the policymakers. Speaking of which, did you see Trump talk about, um, inject, was it injecting disinfectant? Like bleach, basically. Yeah. So funny. People die because of that, I think.

• 1:07:27Chris Williamson?

  That's been kind of spun a number of times. Shapiro, again, has gone through that in, in fairly big detail. And this is the real insidious thing that's happening. Most of the problems that were caused by Trump talking about either, um, ingesting sunlight or this hydroxychloroquine stuff.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  Which is now shown to increase all cause mortality because of cardiac arrhythmias. All cause mortality is.

• 1:07:50Chris Williamson?

  Well, it's so bad, isn't it?

• 1:07:52Speaker 02

  All cause, uh, yeah. Risk of death.

• 1:07:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, but most of the problems that came about from that wasn't what he said. It was then the media taking what he said, extrapolating that out into worse things.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  The guy's face.

• 1:08:07Chris Williamson?

  People reading, people reading what they'd said about what he'd said that wasn't what he'd said. And then when you take something which is on the knife edge of potentially being bad advice. And like use nefarious language to then push it well, well into the territory of bad advice. It's like, that's your fault. That's not his fault. I mean, don't get me wrong, the guy says some idiotic and reprehensible shit every so often. But you were the delivery mechanism for this particular fucking social virus.

• 1:08:41Jonny?

  Trouble is, most, most media outlets are profit driven and they just need circulation, views and attention. So like their, their incentive is not necessarily to provide the best, like most balanced, most researched piece of information, which is why something like that, like to, to me, like that some, I think one of the journalists said to Trump while he was saying it, like people aren't tuning in to these briefings, to be given like speculative, this might work. It's, it's like basic advice that you should be get like advice to the, to the, that is applicable to everybody. Reassuring you're on it, you're doing the right thing. Don't mention like, maybe, you know, you're looking into that, aren't you? Bleach works, doesn't it? You're looking into that, aren't you?

• 1:09:22Jonny?

  And then like spins the, the scientist who's like, uh, um, yeah, no. Yeah. And then like, it's like, if you give the, the media some, like a file, a video file where they can snip it and make it look shit.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Like that's what they want.

• 1:09:38Jonny?

  It's still kind of his fault.

• 1:09:39Chris Williamson?

  The line, the line between that and just deep faking now is becoming increasingly more blurred. I sometimes think that it's the, the, the, you know?

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. There's a couple of videos of, um, they've labeled them as Karens, but I don't think, I don't think any of them are actually called Karen. Um, going around like the States, one of them's like sat in a car and she's like, she's protesting that she shouldn't have to wear a mask because, um, because it, it makes her sad that she can't look at people's faces or something. And, and someone else was like going around telling people to take off their masks in the, in the street because they're like, it's all just a conspiracy and actually like it's, the, wearing the mask is what's weakening us all. And it's killing our antibodies and, and you're just like. It's so interesting seeing like how this is playing out in different arse ends of America.

• 1:10:29Chris Williamson?

  How unfortunate is it if you're called Karen? Like if you're listening to, if you're listening to this and your name is Karen and you're not a mental conspiracy theorist, I want to talk to the manager, please lady with like a, a mullet. I'm, I'm really sorry for you because your name Karen and Sharon have both been taken and just run with to be the epitome of the, I want to talk to the manager, please.

• 1:10:57Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:57Chris Williamson?

  Lady.

• 1:10:57Jonny?

  Margaret as well, sadly.

• 1:10:59Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, less so with Margaret, but Karen and Sharon.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  There's a really good clip. I can't, I think it's from, I think one of you guys might have sent me it where someone was talking about. A patient who was complaining about not having their child vaccinated and, and they were kicking up a fuss and, and the doctor said to them, have you ever considered that the anti-vax movement? Was actually perpetuated by the Russians to weaken the health of the US population. And he said, like, the combination of these two contradicting paradigms on the head just exploded and she was just like, had to go to.

• 1:11:35Jonny?

  Somewhere in the countryside in a huge barn, big farmer, the big farmer sat there going.

• 1:11:39Chris Williamson?

  The big farmer.

• 1:11:40Jonny?

  The big one. There's a guy on our Instagram who you'll know who this is, you so far, much as soon as I, I'm not going to say the name, but a lot of his content at the moment is very like, this is, you know, sheep go bar. Um, like everybody's doing this because the government wants us to stay inside and it's all part of a big. And like, it's just interesting when you see stuff like that. There's a lot of, there's a lot of thought gone into that viewpoint. Like he's not, it's not just like, it doesn't, or it doesn't seem.

• 1:12:08Chris Williamson?

  People are sophisticated, man.

• 1:12:10Jonny?

  Hmm. Doesn't seem like cast off like, ah, this just isn't, isn't important. Like it's a very well formed or it's a very well thought out view. And you think it like. It's just a weird thing to to think about.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  When they're going as far as to say that the coronavirus doesn't exist. And like, I mean, obviously, for like, for me, it's a bit different because like, it's like, well, just come to work with me one day. And like, you can kind of solve that, solve that belief. But yeah, like, the amount of it, but it's, I think this is where emotion comes before rationality. And so you come to the conclusion first and then with with the emotion. And then the brain tries to create and form arguments to support that notion rather than the other way around. And we all do it to an extent, but this is like to the end game of I don't like being told what to do. I think Big Pharma is behind it all. And I'm going to create and find evidence to support that.

• 1:13:03Chris Williamson?

  Again, I I think I've told you guys about this, that compensatory control mechanism that Matthew Syed had in the Times. Did I tell you this on the last episode? Okay, so this is like the fifth time I've dropped it on the podcast now. So sorry to everyone that's listened, but Johnny and Yusef obviously have a lot of content to absorb that doesn't include this podcast.

• 1:13:21Chris Williamson?

  Compensatory control is the tendency for people in periods of uncertainty to to find meaning in things which have no meaning. So people that given an uncertain medical diagnosis are more likely to see patterns in meaningless static than those that aren't. And this is replicated across a number of different studies. And at the moment, Matthew Syed's thesis hypothesis is that people would much sooner presume that this global pandemic is due to the plans of some malign scientists than the chance mutation of a silly little microbe. And having that paradigm in your mind, compensatory control explains so much. People just want to have a narrative. They want to personify what's going on. What's this, there's, there's a reason behind this.

• 1:14:04Chris Williamson?

  It's like, no, sometimes shit stuff just happens because there is a chance that some shit stuff will happen. And this is the same, what you're talking about there, like people who have slightly bizarre worldviews that are incredibly sophisticated is what I saw when I did that Evolution in Dating episode with Rob Henderson. And this guy came in and gave this fucking thesis length comment on YouTube about, oh, no, sorry. It was when I did the one with. Ferguson from admire me dot V I P this big long thing about how I was

• 1:14:39Chris Williamson?

  manipulating the female dating market by still being single at thirty two and that Chelsea was setting a terrible example all this stuff it was like just crawled straight out of four channel Reddit or

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  manipulating the female dating market by being thirty two and single

• 1:14:53Chris Williamson?

  yeah in the I've tied up a bunch of he was presuming that I tied up a series of other girls relationship availabilities throughout the period of my dating history up until now by doing that I'd taken time away from a man who would have potentially got a look in had I not have been with them

• 1:15:13Jonny?

  that's ridiculous assuming that that's assuming that the women have no free choice and can't decide what they want to do either and that you if you want to be in a relationship with someone that's what

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  because Chris is such a hunk that

• 1:15:24Chris Williamson?

  which is the bizarre thing is I literally couldn't fucking pay for it in twenty twenty so like

• 1:15:32Chris Williamson?

  that aside what I was surprised by was how how sophisticated it was he's got all different acronyms using all these different words oh this is it's because of the the sexual market value crossover point of the of the the peaks state this childhood epiphany I'm like there is an entire body of work underpinning what you're talking about at the moment and the sophistication is scary it's like the same thing with flat earthers it was like they had they'd created ever increasingly elaborate models to try and work out why the thing was the thing that they thought it was because it wasn't so it needed have you seen I can't remember it was before

• 1:16:16Chris Williamson?

  Copernicus's view about the heliocentric geocentric version of the universe and if you actually look at this it's at the top of Chris Sparks article that Jordan airs loves about increasing complexity and if you look at the way that they presumed the universe the solar system had to work there were all of these crazy interweaving

• 1:16:37Chris Williamson?

  like looping orbits that everything had to explain the fact that sometimes planets pass back and forth in opposite directions so the reason that that happens is because when you move quicker than something circling around something else you can actually see it go in a different direction but they had from above this net image of like what was that thing you used to have as a kid where you'd draw not a scale extric do you know what I mean

• 1:16:59Jonny?

  Gyroscope.

• 1:17:01Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 1:17:01Jonny?

  The gyroscope?

• 1:17:02Chris Williamson?

  Yes, but no.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  It was like a, you put a gel pen on the end and you spin it around.

• 1:17:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you've just run out of battery, haven't you?

• 1:17:09Jonny?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  I have, is it sounding?

• 1:17:12Jonny?

  It just, when it's on your mic, yeah.

• 1:17:14Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it's, it's fine. Anyway, let's call that as the end of the episode. We didn't even get on to Boris's announcement, but it was fucking shit. It was forty five minutes of confusing hyperbole that, that didn't really explain what was going on and I, I don't want to spend.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  If you mustn't work, then you do. And if you shan't, then you can. And if you get the bus, then don't. But if you.

• 1:17:36Chris Williamson?

  Go outside. Don't, don't, don't go outside.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  But stay outside for as long as you want, for as long as you need to, for unlimited time. But, but not if you have to work and you shouldn't.

• 1:17:46Chris Williamson?

  Go to work, but don't take public transport. I mean, take public transport, but wear a mask.

• 1:17:51Chris Williamson?

  Oh, fuck off, man. Honestly. Anyway, boys, thank you so much. Where should people go? They want some macros or they want to pivot to go to become an online coach?

• 1:17:59Jonny?

  Proppinfitness.com forward slash modern wisdom. If you want to become an online coach or transition existing services online. And then proppinfitness.com forward slash, forward slash calculator if you'd like some macros.

• 1:18:13Chris Williamson?

  Lovely. Everything will be linked in the show notes below. Thank you to everyone for tuning in. I hope that you enjoyed that little catch up episode. I know that I do. These timely ones are really, really fun and cool. Got any questions, comments or feedback? You know where to go. Just tag us on Twitter. Give us a message on the, leave a comment on YouTube, whatever it might be. For now, gentlemen, thank you very much.

• 1:18:35Jonny?

  Okay, bye.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Thank you. Speak soon.