#326 - Navy Admiral Warns Unknown Objects are HUNTING Our Nuclear Submarines | Tim Gallaudet

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Tim Gallaudet is an oceanographer, retired Rear Admiral in the United States Navy & Director of NOAA. He claims to have seen footage of UFO's and unidentified submerged objects (USO) while on active duty in the U. S. Navy. SPONSORS https://cornbreadhemp.com/danny - Use coed DANNY for 30% off your first order. https://morning.ver.so/danny - Use code DANNY to save 15% on your first order. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS https://www.timgallaudet.com https://x.com/GallaudetTim FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Tim's Navy experience 04:14 - How much of the ocean is unexplored 05:57 - NOAA Research program 17:08 - Diving with sharks 27:56 - How fisheries are regulated 39:08 - Non-human intelligence in the ocean 42:17 - The moon landing & Room 237 49:52 - Wall Street Journal is lying about UFOs 01:00:10 - Nuclear submarine UFO encounters 01:11:41 - Navy sailor leaks UFO footage 01:27:01 - DARPA's underwater drone fleet 01:33:31 - Diego Garcia: Area 51 of the ocean 01:39:31 - New search for Atlantis 01:52:53 - Learning the remote viewing protocol 02:02:11 - Psychic abilities in non-human species 02:16:16 - Why future humans will live underwater 02:23:32 - What Tim REALLY knows about UFOs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  You come from a background of underwater naval stuff. So for people that don't know who you are, why don't you give me like a background into like what your military and naval background is?

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Sure, so I was an oceanographer in the Navy. I did that for 32 years. Have three degrees in oceanography, masters, bachelors, PhD. And my specialty was to be an oceanographer. And what that involves in the Navy is providing information and predictions about the ocean, the atmosphere, space, and even the seafloor. And all that information is used by naval forces. We were chatting about Navy SEALs before I worked at the Navy SEAL headquarters. SEALs use environmental information like nobody else. Because they live and die by it. If they're in the water, let's say they're a submarine or SEAL delivery vehicle, a mini-sub, currents, wave heights, temperature. All those missions are limited by temperature. Everyone hypes out after those missions.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  They're long-duration missions, the subs flooded. So environmental information for the Navy. I served on aircraft carriers, hydrographic ships, amphibious assault ships, and in the Pentagon, directing all that kind of activity.

• 2:16Danny Jones?

  So I bet you grew up in Southern California, kinda like just by the ocean, always, always around this type of... Was it San Diego you were around?

• 2:23Speaker 03

  No, I grew up in LA.

• 2:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  And I didn't live in San Diego a lot of my career, but like you, we'd go to the beach every summer and then vacation there. And so, just, I was a swimmer too, so liked to body surf. Not a good surfer, but tried, body boarded too, and I just loved being in the waves. And that's when I, I knew, I wanna work on the sea and study it.

• 2:45Danny Jones?

  Hmm. So the first thing you did, once you got into the military, was what again?

• 2:51Speaker 03

  So, I, I went to the Naval Academy.

• 2:54Danny Jones?

  Naval Academy?

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55Danny Jones?

  That's what it was, okay. And then you were working with Navy SEALs, doing some SEAL training stuff?

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Actually, so backing up, I didn't really go into the Navy because I thought I wanted to be a naval officer.

• 3:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  I wanted to be an oceanographer, and I wanted to get a PhD in oceanography. There's this institution in La Jolla called Scripps. And as a swimmer, I'd go down there every year as a high schooler. We compete in their annual rough water swim. And, and it was very popular, one of the biggest rough water swims in the country. And I, it was across the La Jolla Cove was Scripps Pier. And I thought, what's that place? And I did some research and I realized these people study the ocean, and there's so much we don't know about the ocean. I thought, that's it, I'm gonna do that. I wanna go there and get a degree. And, and then I realized the Naval Academy had one scholarship available every year to go get a master's degree at Scripps. And I did some more research and thought, that's what I wanna do.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  Get that, that scholarship from the academy. And then after that, I'd figure out what was next. And that's what I did.

• 3:58Danny Jones?

  So after you get the scholarship within oceanography, how did that lead into all of this other stuff? With like Navy submarines and Navy SEALs, and then eventually into this UAP research?

• 4:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, well... First things first is that that was my career choice. So it's a specialty in the Navy, Navy Oceanography Officer. And there's only about 400 less or so in the Navy and they do all these things and they, they work with SEALs, they work with submarine community, they work on a lot of aviation capable ships to predict weather. And then they also work with intelligence agencies to map the seafloor and do other things I can't talk about. But a big part of the intelligence collection for undersea warfare, this, this community the Navy does. And, and so that was my career path is to jump around and do things in that specialty. So I started on aircraft carriers, I mentioned, two combat tours, by the way, which were exciting and we could talk about.

• 4:53Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  We were supporting ground forces, been flying strikes into Iraq and Afghanistan. So our ship was relatively safe. I wasn't in combat per se, even though I think Saddam Hussein might have lobbed a few missiles in our way, but we had a, we had a good air defense capability. But ultimately, those were, those were pretty exciting tours for sure.

• 5:14Danny Jones?

  Is it true we've only mapped like 5% of the seafloor?

• 5:17Speaker 03

  So we have mapped 25% of the seafloor globally. Yeah. But that means 75% is not mapped. That's a lot of ocean floor. We don't even know what it's like.

• 5:28Danny Jones?

  I was looking on Instagram yesterday, someone posted an image of the Pacific Ocean. You can literally look at the earth from one angle and see no land. It's just all ocean.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  That's right, yes.

• 5:40Danny Jones?

  Literally half of the earth.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  A lot of times and it is a long haul. That's, yes.

• 5:45Danny Jones?

  It's pretty crazy when you think about it. This is, this is a water world.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:49Danny Jones?

  Right? There's way more water than land.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  70% of the ocean is covered by water. But the key statistic is, so that's the seafloor, the volume of the ocean, we've barely explored 10% of it. So 90% of the volume of the ocean's never been explored with a remotely operated vehicle or, or, or a diver or even a drone, ocean drone. So that's a lot of the ocean that we know nothing about.

• 6:15Danny Jones?

  That's insane. So we've studied more of the moon than we have of our own oceans.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Pretty much, yeah. We mapped the surface of the moon and Mars to a higher resolution than the seafloor, which is beyond me, you know? And then that was kind of my campaign as a oceanographer is trying to get us funded, certainly when I led NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. So they're, they're the top ocean agency and I was always trying to get. Us to get funding like NASA did. NASA always still is just, they have a lot of appeal. And I'm not going to criticize NASA, but you'd think we'd want to dedicate as much funding or to explore our own world and, and understand it. And, and so, yeah, that's, that's something I've been, it's kind of a theme in my career.

• 6:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I'm, I've always used NOAA to check like wind patterns and swell patterns and stuff to check surf. But like, other than that, what this kind of stuff does NOAA do?

• 7:07Speaker 03

  Oh, well, on ocean related things, they, there's a couple of really important services they provide. One is for all seaports and coastal areas, they run an operational ocean forecast system. So it's currents, it's tide levels and temperatures and, and wind, of course. And that's, that's really important for pilots to go in and out of port. And our seaports contribute, uh, uh, almost 25% of our GDP is, is material going in and out of seaports. And then, uh, and then that's then also tourism and recreation on the coast, you know this. So they're providing rip current forecasts and weather too, of course, and that's saves lives. It's crazy that a hundred people a year die from rip currents.

• 7:52Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Is that nuts or what?

• 7:54Danny Jones?

  That is nuts. I get caught in rip currents every time I surf.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:56Danny Jones?

  But if you're on a board, it's easy, obviously, rather than you're swimming, when you're, when you're swimming.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  And so another thing NOAA does, I really am a fan of, is in the ocean, it's, um, these, these, this program to explore the ocean, it's the Ocean Exploration and Research Program. And what they do is they have a dedicated ship with a deep diving remotely operated vehicle with cameras and sonar and robotic arms to take samples. And they, they're all, all over the world every year, uh, exploring places we don't know anything about. And the same office funds other explorers with their ships. So right now, Bob Ballard, the guy who discovered Titanic, friend of mine, uh, been on his ship. He is in this area of the Pacific called Iron Bottom Sound off of the Solomon Islands, where in World War II, 1942 specifically, uh, we were fighting major battles against the Japanese and we

• 8:47Speaker 03

  were getting our butts kicked. And, and so some of, a lot of the US fleet and Australian ships are down there. And he's, he's, he's characterizing all that with the ROV and it's, it's really interesting stuff.

• 8:56Danny Jones?

  Iron Bottom Sound?

• 8:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:58Danny Jones?

  How deep is it?

• 8:59Speaker 03

  I don't know. Uh, it's, well, their ROV is rated to 6,000 meters. So it's less than 6,000 meters. I'm not sure exactly, but, but deeper than a diver could go.

• 9:09Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Have you, did you ever sail on any nuclear submarines like, like, um, any of the Columbia class or the Ohio class subs?

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Uh, actually I, I was on an Ohio class, but it was more of a training cruise when I was a midshipman. And then I was on a LA, Los Angeles attack submarine, both nuclear, uh, as a training cruise as well. And then actually I went up-

• 9:32Danny Jones?

  Oh, the Columbia class are the new ones. The Ohio ones are the old ones.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  That's right. That's right.

• 9:36Danny Jones?

  So I don't even, I don't even know if they're done building the Columbia class ones.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  I don't think they are.

• 9:40Danny Jones?

  I still, I just saw, we saw a report a couple of months ago that they were spending like, uh, like it was like two and a half billion dollars per sub and they were doing like a few dozen of them.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a big hefty bill. Yes. But, uh, I did go up into the Arctic, uh, for, uh, when I was a one-star admiral. And often when you're at that level, they'll, you'll go all around the Navy, uh, because you need to, you're the Navy spokesman when you become an admiral. And so you really, it's important to learn about all that you're, you're doing to support the Navy. And I had a team of scientists and sailors up in the Arctic, supporting the submarine exercise, where they built a camp and some subs punched through the, the ice cap. And, uh, and I got to go on one of those submarines.

• 10:19Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 10:19Speaker 03

  USS Hampton. Yeah. It was really, it was quite an experience. This is interesting because those camps right there, they have to set them up in one day. And I mean, it gets down to 40 below. And if your skin is exposed to 40 below for just a few seconds, you're, you could, you could, um, get frostbite. It's real dangerous stuff.

• 10:37Danny Jones?

  Steve, find a photo of one of those submarines punching through the ice in the, in the Antarctic. When you got in that-

• 10:41Speaker 03

  I actually have a selfie of me-

• 10:43Danny Jones?

  Do you really?

• 10:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can get that to you.

• 10:44Danny Jones?

  Oh, really? Yeah, please do. So where, when, when you get on that submarine, where do you leave from? And how long does it take to get to the Arctic?

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Well, I had the easy one because I flew up to this-

• 10:53Danny Jones?

  You flew?

• 10:54Speaker 03

  I flew up there to Ukivik. It used to be called Barrow.

• 10:57Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  And, uh, yeah, that's, that's what we saw.

• 11:00Danny Jones?

  Insane.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Isn't that great? It's, it's some badass stuff for sure. And that's what, and it's important now because Russia is challenging us everywhere they can and, and China too. And China's sending ships up there. So we, we have to, it's important for us to have a presence and a capability. And that's what the purpose of the exercise was is to have the submarine practice. Actually, there was a British sub up there too. And they were doing tactics and maneuvers against each other, testing out various, um-

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Procedures and their sonar equipment, trying to find each other, basically. It's a, it's a, it's the training we do just to stay ahead.

• 11:37Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah. And the amount of what I learned in the last probably year or two was that these subs carry some like up to 50, I mean 40 or 50 nuclear warheads on them, all of them.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Oh, I forgot the number, but that's about right.

• 11:54Danny Jones?

  A large amount because they're, they're, they're all MIRV'd. So they all have like four, four or six nuclear warheads on each missile. And there's like at least, at least two dozen of these rockets that are on each one of these subs.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right.

• 12:09Danny Jones?

  And the ocean.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Those are the, the ballistic missile subs, not the attack subs. They're different. The subs I was on was an attack sub.

• 12:16Danny Jones?

  What's the difference?

• 12:17Speaker 03

  So attack sub carries torpedoes and vertical launch. Some I think they have, no. Some have Tomahawk missiles, I believe, but primarily torpedoes with a, with a, a main mission to do undersea warfare, attack and kill other submarines.

• 12:32Danny Jones?

  And ships.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  And ships.

• 12:33Danny Jones?

  Right. And then there's other submarines that basically have on the top of them, they're just lined with,

• 12:41Danny Jones?

  warhead missiles with warheads on them. And they're, they're, they launch them from underwater and then they go into the atmosphere and then the MIRVs come out and they hit their predetermined program targets, right?

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. Big Cold War mission and but still one today too.

• 12:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Annie Jameson did this book last year she let out called Nuclear War.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  I saw the show.

• 12:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, you watched that?

• 12:59Speaker 03

  I watched a part of it, yeah.

• 13:00Danny Jones?

  It's terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And she shows, there's a graphic of all the submarine highways around the world. And they are, there's Russian and Chinese submarines that are patrolling off, off of our coasts in Florida, California, right here. Here it is. So Russian are the, the Russian Navy are the dark black dashes and the Chinese like the light dots and the undersea cables are the, um, the lines. But that's insane. If you look at all, those submarine highways, right off the coast of California, right off the coast of Florida and North Carolina, and, uh,

• 13:37Danny Jones?

  That's insane. How do they not like run into each other? There's so many of them.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Yes, that's a, well, there's.

• 13:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, the Caribbean is littered with nuclear subs.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  Well, it's, our submarines are really good. And I've seen video, for example, of our subs under adversary submarine and the parascubs up and they're videoing their propellers of the adversary. And that, I can't, this was a while ago, but I better not. And that, but you could say, you could expect who it was. It was in late 80s. And the submarine, they didn't know we were doing that. So we've gone, there's a great book out there. I recommend people read if they are into this topic called Blind Man's Bluff.

• 14:25Danny Jones?

  And I had that book sitting on my nightstand right now. I want to read it.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  And the interesting thing about that book, so it's basically the whole cat and mouse game of the Cold War under, with submarines, and tapping into undersea cables, using divers that deploy from submarines.

• 14:41Danny Jones?

  What?

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 14:42Danny Jones?

  While they're deep? While the submarines are underwater?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Well, it's some, during the terminals, at the terminals where the sun, undersea cables make landfall, if you will, that there's areas, shallow areas before it, that's where the Russians and we were tapping undersea cables to basically spy on the communications.

• 15:03Danny Jones?

  How deep are we talking?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  So I don't recall the exact depth, but this, these are depths divers could do.

• 15:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  So not, probably less than 200 feet.

• 15:11Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  And, but some of the missions, I think, were more extreme. Ultimately, we were both doing it to each other. And, but, but, and I'll just say this. So that book was, I think, released in the 90s. And a lot of that information, I think, has been declassified for those ops in that time. But to say that we don't do that today would be, I think, myopic.

• 15:32Danny Jones?

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• 17:01Danny Jones?

  It was down south from here, maybe 100 miles, 50, 50 to 100 miles offshore, where these people were freediving these cables, like giant cables that are underwater in the Gulf. And there's all kinds of fish.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:16Danny Jones?

  And like goliath grouper and stuff on them.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they like structure. Have you ever dived on an oil rig?

• 17:23Danny Jones?

  I have not, but it looks absolutely terrifying.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  I can get, no, no, it's just, it's like you said, it's like those cables, there's all these giant pelagic fish, sharks, tuna, permit, it's really, it's awesome.

• 17:33Danny Jones?

  I have friends that go up to like the northern panhandle and they, they'll fish up there. And they'll catch all kinds of like tuna and like sailfish and all kinds of crazy stuff off of those, off those oil rigs, but I don't think those guys have the balls to jump in the water.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  No, no, it's, it's not that heavy. It's, it's not a hard dive at all.

• 17:52Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 17:52Speaker 03

  In fact, I should have brought my wife on this podcast because she was a Navy diver.

• 17:55Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  And so she's done the really hard diving, recovering aircraft.

• 17:59Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. This is heavy stuff, heavy lifting out of, from the ocean. And that's what salvage divers do. And so she had a, two tours like that.

• 18:08Danny Jones?

  I had a guy on here a couple of years ago who worked for the Department of Transportation. And he was the diver that was in charge of inspecting all the bridges around Florida.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  Wow, okay.

• 18:18Danny Jones?

  So he had to dive every single bridge that exists in the state. And inspect all the pilings, the structural integrity of all, integrity of all of them. I don't know how often he had to do each one. But, uh, he said, I asked him out of all the bridges, what was the scariest one? And he said it was the one that was like two miles away from here in

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 18:37Danny Jones?

  John's Pass in Madeira Beach.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 18:39Danny Jones?

  Very narrow pass, but it's so narrow and so deep. And there's so much crazy like rubble and structures underneath the deepest part of it. He's like, first of all, there's like ungodly amounts of bull sharks. Second of all, like the water's moving so fast, it's crazy. He's like, you could easily like get snagged on some rebar back down there and be, and drown.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  That's scary diving, when you have all these obstructions and a swift moving current. And what was the visibility poor to?

• 19:08Danny Jones?

  Very low.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  So that's, and bull sharks, low visibility, bad combination.

• 19:12Danny Jones?

  Yes, 100%.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  In fact, Not in here. On the other side of Florida, I went with my daughter to go freedive with sharks. And that particular day, there happened to be about 18 bull sharks. But if it's out in the Gulf, so it's super 100 foot visibility.

• 19:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  And they have a bait.

• 19:29Danny Jones?

  You mean the Atlantic on the other side?

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Gulf, Gulf Stream.

• 19:33Danny Jones?

  Gulf Stream, gotcha.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  And so when they put a bait crate down and the visibility is 100 feet, they're not interested in you. They're like dogs on a scent and they'll stay away from you. And it's a pretty awesome dive to go do that and see sharks up so close. But yeah, you don't want to mess with bull sharks when the visibility is bad because then they get confused. But that was a fun day because we, at one point, a hammerhead came swimming through. And he saw all these bulls around him and he just got out of dodge.

• 20:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's gotten so bad. The sharks have gotten so bad in Florida that you can go out there and all the spear fishermen have to do is just start popping their bands.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:13Danny Jones?

  And the sharks just appear everywhere. It's really crazy.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Where do you surf?

• 20:17Danny Jones?

  I surf all around, mainly on the East Coast, like between Daytona Beach and Sebastian.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 20:24Danny Jones?

  Sometimes a little bit down, a little bit farther south, like Fort Pierce. But and then obviously here, in, when was it? It was like September, October of last year. We had the hurricanes, so we got like some really good waves for the hurricane swells. But, but yeah, no, the sharks have been out of control here lately. And I think it has a lot to do with the spear fishermen.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:46Danny Jones?

  Well, they'll bait sharks in, they'll bait bull sharks in just so they can like shoot Big Kobia off the top of them or whatever. And it's like, these people are nuts. These people have like.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  You do not want to be in the water.

• 20:56Danny Jones?

  No.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 20:57Danny Jones?

  No, it's crazy. And then, you know, in New Smyrna Beach, which is a really popular beach in, right south of Daytona, there are, it's the shark attack capital of the world.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Really?

• 21:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but they're like little spinner sharks and black tip sharks, like yegae. You'll have to go to the hospital. You'll get a pretty severe like laceration to your leg or your foot.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh.

• 21:20Danny Jones?

  Some guy just got his hand bitten like in half two days ago. But, you know, they're not like great whites or tiger sharks or anything like that.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  So I was telling Steve, when I was at NOAA, we had a lot of great scientists doing neat things. And I found some scientists in La Jolla Fisheries Biologists. And they shared with me some video of them and every year for 20 years, they'd been going to Guadalupe Island, Mexico, up Baja to document these white sharks there. And what they do is they would photo ID them diving in steel cages. And the science was cool because basically the stripe between, the line between a white shark's top and underbelly, which is white, is kind of jagged and it's unique to each individual. So the pattern along that border is sort of like zebra stripes. You can identify individuals.

• 22:08Speaker 03

  And so, because everyone's different, it's kind of like someone's eye for face recognition. And so they were documenting new individuals every time. Anyways, they were diving great white sharks. And I saw the video and I thought, oh my God, I got to do this. And of course, I submit, you know, I submit a request or I asked the lawyers to review it. And they all wagged their finger at me and said, no, no, no. You know, you going down there for five days to dive with white sharks? That's, that's going to look really bad. Those are bad optics for ethics, government ethics.

• 22:37Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. So the way the environment is now, okay, if I were to do that, anybody, I work for Trump. So you can be sure every Democrat in the Senate would, would say I was waste, fraud and abuse of government money to go down and boondoggle to go diving for five days, which is legitimate. This is, this is, you gotta

• 22:58Danny Jones?

  There's $21 trillion missing from the Pentagon. What's a shark dive?

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Good point. Okay. And I would have been doing good science. You're right. But ultimately, you always got to see, well, I had to always see why, if you will, just make sure I didn't misstep. Ultimately, after I left, my wife, being former Navy diver, she said, let's go do it. And we signed up and did it in November of 2021. And it was, I remember thinking this. So our plan was to leave Ensenada. It takes a whole day to get out to Guadalupe. Three days in the water with sharks and then one day back. And I thought, three days doing the same thing? We've, we've dived all over the world on different reefs. And I thought, I might get bored after this. And then, of course, for the moment we get in the water with these animals, I, it was just, I want, I didn't want to leave. It was just so interesting to see these giant bus size

• 23:46Speaker 03

  creatures that are have have all the the reputation and drama associated with them in their native habitat.

• 23:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  And and just doing what they do and being so close to touch almost. And so now I told I've told people this, now I know why bungee jumpers and adrenaline junkies do what they do. Because I could not wait to get back in the water. I don't want to leave. I was I was going to be there all day if I could. So and I still would. White sharks up close and personal.

• 24:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I'm less afraid of white sharks than I am of bulls and tigers. Because I don't think I don't think white sharks, unless it was a really hungry, hungry white shark, would want to eat and consume a human. But I think there's been plenty of evidence of of tiger sharks just devouring human beings.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's interesting thing, though, because like any interaction, you really have to understand the animal's behavior.

• 24:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  And and the situation and environment. So for example, I like I like that we're talking about this. I my wife and I.

• 24:44Danny Jones?

  We'll talk about UFOs, but we'll get there eventually, folks.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  My wife and I went to Fiji recently, and this is so interesting. Like a lot of places in the wild, there's a resident female tiger shark there. And the way they've built up the the the dive location is they've built a little wall under on the seafloor. And they the divers will have you all sit and kneel on the on the on the sand behind it.

• 25:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  And then the the the professional divers, the guides, they have a big steel box with tuna. And and fish heads and they'll get out there and they're all in chain mail. And which is really interesting to see a guy in full diving steel. And and then they'll start feeding the animal and just this sure enough like clockwork, like ringing a dinner bell. This big mama tiger shark would swim along and come there and eat her tuna and then leave. And and so she made a couple of passes. We got all these really close pictures. And then, of course, the divers were all good. They got these big steel prongs, making sure that the the tiger didn't get too close to us. But ultimately, it's a chance to go witness a tiger like that where you could almost touch it.

• 25:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Pretty awesome.

• 25:57Danny Jones?

  It's pretty awesome. There's also a lady in Hawaii who does this. I think there's a Netflix documentary that just came out about her. Her name's Ocean Ramsey.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  I know about her. Yeah. I think that's pretty reckless.

• 26:06Danny Jones?

  It's pretty reckless. And it paints a false narrative of what those animals really are.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:11Danny Jones?

  Because all those sharks that she's diving with are A, very accustomed to seeing humans everywhere, and B, they're very well fed.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the only thing that keeps her alive.

• 26:22Danny Jones?

  Those are beasts. Those are man-eating beasts. Like, that, I don't know, I don't know, you know, how to reiterate that strongly enough for people that are seeing these things where she's like, you know, she's, you know, kudos to her for like, for doing what she's doing and being able to promote. Yeah, everything that she's doing good is great, but like, the fact like coming in all kumbaya, like, oh, she's, today she has this tummy ache. We're going to, just if she's coming at you, just pet her on the nose and she will turn the other way. Like, that's not, that's not reality.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  That animal or that species?

• 27:04Danny Jones?

  No, no.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  No, she's not characterizing them accurately.

• 27:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  They don't have feelings like that.

• 27:10Danny Jones?

  No. There was a video that came out, actually, I think it was a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, of a dude literally getting eaten alive by a shark in Egypt.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:18Danny Jones?

  You saw that one?

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I have, yes.

• 27:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, God.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  You have to respect the ocean. It is scary.

• 27:23Danny Jones?

  And there was videos of that shark swimming around that pier right before it happened. There was guys like on the dock. I guess what they were doing was they were dumping sheep carcasses right offshore there.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:32Danny Jones?

  And this guy, you know.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  She should not have been swimming there.

• 27:36Danny Jones?

  Wrong place, wrong time.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  This happened in, well, something similar in Israel. Did you hear about that?

• 27:40Danny Jones?

  No.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was an area where I guess the residents or the tourists had been kind of giving fish to local sharks in that region. It sort of had been a thing for years. And I don't know if you know about the place in Hawaii where they do this with manta rays? And it said it's just using lights to attract plankton. Do you know about that?

• 27:59Danny Jones?

  No.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, off the Big Island, it's really neat. They have a, a hotel had a bunch of lights to light the water up in, and every night. It would draw a plankton and that attracted some some manta rays and now it's now it's a daily event and they bring divers in to see it. I've been there and it's really it's pretty amazing. We so but that's it's almost artificial. It's kind of like that tiger shark where they they've almost domesticated these animals. We got to see mantas in the wild in Palau and that was totally different. That was going out and trying to find them and and then if you're really lucky and we got lucky, we found them. But yeah, Israel had something similar and and a guy they basically found half of him. He had yeah, and he was just I think he was a tourist or he was a local, but

• 28:41Speaker 03

  he'd just been at the beach and it was just not a good day. So the time those aren't good things to do to start mixing humans and sharks in that way. So Ocean Ramsay is not communicating the right message in that respect.

• 28:55Danny Jones?

  Right, right. How much of a hand have you had in like regulating fisheries, if any?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Oh, well, a lot. So when I was in charge of NOAA, they're they have under that agency, the National Weather Service, the National Ocean Service, and then this National Marine Fisheries Service. And that's their job to basically do the science. And this is interesting, you fish. So now you probably mostly are governed by the laws of the state of Florida because you do it locally, but out in federal waters. So that's what NOAA owns. And they do the science to estimate any given stock's abundance and distributions. And then with that, they set the catch limits to make sure the stock's not overfished. So it's a very good service. Our fisheries were decimated in the 80s because we had no real effective rules. And so with

• 29:43Speaker 03

  good and sensible rules, you're going to keep the stocks around for for both the commercial and recreational fishermen.

• 29:50Danny Jones?

  So that port I was telling you about right down the street from here, Madeira Beach, is the number one grouper capital of the world.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Oh, man, next time I come, let's go diving.

• 29:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we should.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Spearfishing.

• 30:02Danny Jones?

  I don't know about that.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  Oh, good point.

• 30:03Danny Jones?

  It's been a while for me. I haven't gone spearfishing in years. But if I do it, I want to make sure that the water's clear. Right now, it's not clear. Okay, don't. In the winter time, it gets nice. In the winter time here, we should do it. But what I was getting to is we, I, a couple of years ago, probably like, this is probably 2015, 2014. I went and started interviewing a couple of the fishermen that were working at the docks down there. And I come to find out these dudes are like heroin addicts, the deck hands. What? The deck hands. Oh, yeah, okay. And we started like following them around, like seeing how they live, see their lifestyle, and they were all very disgruntled about the IFQ system. Oh, right. And we didn't even know that. We were just kind of like following these guys around, seeing what they were doing.

• 30:48Danny Jones?

  They were just like complete junky drug addicts, like crazy people. And we started digging more and more into it, and we started to learn about this whole crazy underbelly of this fishing world that is here in my backyard that I never knew existed. And so we went to the fish house where all the boats come in and they weigh their fish. And I like learned the whole history of this, and it's fascinating. How like in 2007, before 2007 here, it was a free for all. So like basically red snapper, you could get a three million, the allotment was like three million pounds. All the fishermen would go out, catch, catch as much as they can, come in, weigh the fish,

• 31:29Danny Jones?

  and then see where you're at. Maybe you run out, maybe you hit that three million quota limit in like October. Right? So you have to stop fishing. You can't catch anymore red snapper for the rest of the year. So in 2007, the federal government came in and they created a monopoly with it. And they basically said, boat owners, based on your previous catch history, we are going to give you X amount of quota every single year. So some guys got, you know, upwards of 200,000 pounds a year. Some guys got 100,000 pounds a year, 50,000 pounds a year, whatever it was. These boat owners got the best retirement plan known to man. Oh, yeah. Right? So, so, so what did they do? They started selling them. All right. And now you don't even have to own a boat. That's right. You can just buy and sell this stuff and play with it like stock. Yeah.

• 32:12Danny Jones?

  This quota. People will lease it out to fishermen, to boat owners. And then by the time that deck hand gets paid, there's like not much left for them. And I interviewed. Some guys that are like a part of the that operate fisheries up in like the northeast. And they were saying when they were down here talking to me, they're like, it is not like this.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:30Danny Jones?

  Where we're from.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 32:31Danny Jones?

  They was like, they were explaining what's happening here is like carny ride operators.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:35Danny Jones?

  Just, you know, exploiting these guys that are like, they're addicted to fricking heroin. They're coming back from a fishing trip, blowing their five grand they made on drugs and prostitutes. And then going back out in a boat when they run out of money and sea having. Because they have no drugs, so they're offshore for 10, 12 days.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 32:53Danny Jones?

  And they're fricking detoxing offshore while they're catching fish. They come back, rinse and repeat the same cycle.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Gosh.

• 32:58Danny Jones?

  And the dudes up in the northeast are like, this is not like this up there. Like, we take care of our people. Like, we we protect our community. We take care of the ocean and our fish. And it's like a lifestyle, something to be proud of. And it's like the opposite here.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, you, I'm impressed because I've been following fisheries for a while and you characterize this really well. And I didn't have enough time, runtime at NOAA, only three and a half years or so to address things like that in our fisheries. And I don't even know if I would have had any success based on the structure of the federal government, being NOAA Fisheries and what we could do. But that's a problem. You're right about that. And I do respect the way, the culture up there in New England.

• 33:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  The fisheries culture is one that I admire greatly all around the country, really Alaska too.

• 33:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Alaska, definitely. Yeah, big time, right? Like, how could that not be? Like, that's such a cool thing to do. You know what I mean? Like, to say that you do that. No, I haven't. I want to go. You've probably heard that chocolate can cause breakouts. But what if the right kind of chocolate could actually improve the quality of your skin? Clinical studies show that cocoa flavonols, the powerful antioxidants in high quality cocoa, can significantly improve skin hydration, elasticity, and even reduce the appearance of wrinkles. In one study, participants who consumed flavanol-rich cocoa daily for 12 weeks had visibly smoother skin and twice the resistance to UV damage compared to placebo. Meaning fewer fine lines, more glow, and actual protection from the inside out.

• 34:26Danny Jones?

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• 35:08Danny Jones?

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• 35:39Speaker 03

  We could talk for a while. I have a good story there. So being here, I was, I was, I oversaw NOAA Fisheries. And so there's these things called fishery management councils. They're independent of the government. I, as the administrator, would name members of the council and they, but they would have certain expertise and for every region, they would work with NOAA to set the catch limits. And so you have a sort of third party helping make sure this wasn't the government going in heavy handed. And so it's a good system. And ultimately though, a guy, we named someone to go to the North Pacific Council. And when I went to Alaska, he owned a fishing lodge up there off Juneau and he invited me to go fishing with him and I was excited because I knew, I knew that I was, I was assured

• 36:23Speaker 03

  to get, you know, 100 pound salmon and barn door size halibut. And I go up there and it's this beautiful area of the Lynn Canal and a snow cap peaks all around us. And we went for eight hours and I didn't catch a thing. No, I mean, and he was trying, he was trying. We were dipping for salmon. We were, we were trawling. I mean, we were trawling for salmon dipping for the halibut. And I actually caught an arrow-toothed flounder, which is this, this really raggedy looking thing with teeth all over. So imagine a flounder with teeth. It's a really bizarre creature.

• 36:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  But I, I couldn't even keep it. So anyways, um, cause it was too, I had to throw it back because it wasn't big enough. Anyways, it was one of the greatest days on the water ever because humpback whales were spouting and sounding all around us. It was glorious. So.

• 37:10Danny Jones?

  Did you see those, um, those tridents that I have laying around?

• 37:13Speaker 03

  I saw that one. Yeah.

• 37:14Danny Jones?

  You know who Manny Puig is? You ever heard of Manny Puig?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  I know that name.

• 37:18Danny Jones?

  The shark man. Find a photo of him, Steve. I'm sure you've seen him. He used to be on Jackass, but he.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. Okay.

• 37:24Danny Jones?

  He was the guy with the long hair who like handles all the, yeah, him.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 37:28Danny Jones?

  He's a legend around here. He lives in Miami, but, um, he made those. He, um, did a trip with the Jackass guys to, or the wild, the show was called Wild Boys. And they went to Alaska and they were looking for, uh, orcas. And basically they found a pod of, a giant pod of orcas and he's like, take me to the front of the pod and then I'll jump in.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  What?

• 37:49Danny Jones?

  And he jumped in the water in Alaska. Zero visibility in the water. And then he didn't see the orcas until it was like from here to like that TV.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  Good God.

• 37:58Danny Jones?

  Right up to him. The guy's a maniac.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Knowing the way orcas treat white sharks, I don't think I would have done that. But ultimately that's cool. I actually did the same. I didn't get in the water, but we saw two pods, uh, killer whales on a, a separate excursion on that trip. They're, they're magnificent.

• 38:14Danny Jones?

  Well, there's actually no recorded accounts of orcas attacking and killing humans other than inside of a fish tank at SeaWorld.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  That's right. Yeah. I know about that.

• 38:22Danny Jones?

  Crazy, right? There's tons of footage of like orcas approaching human beings and like, just like, you know, checking them out and minding their own business. They don't, they don't mess with people.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Why is that? Yeah.

• 38:33Danny Jones?

  It's really interesting.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  You've probably heard about the orcas attacking those sailboats off the, off of Spain.

• 38:39Danny Jones?

  Yes. I saw the footage of that. I saw the footage of that. So I don't think, what were those boats doing? They were doing something, right? They were, um.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 38:49Danny Jones?

  They were fucking with the environment somehow, right? Like they were doing something sketchy. And they might've been like netting.

• 39:00Danny Jones?

  I forget what it was. It was off the coast of Spain?

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:04Danny Jones?

  Steve, maybe you can find it. I forget what was going on.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Is it this guy?

• 39:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's, I think that's it, right? Click on it, see what, see.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Two years ago.

• 39:12Danny Jones?

  Read what the description of it says.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Credible video.

• 39:15Danny Jones?

  Just click on it. Oh, these are just randoms. This is just like a.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  I thought they were just day sailors or tourists.

• 39:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, maybe you're right.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would have remembered if it was something.

• 39:25Danny Jones?

  Weird.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Using sonar.

• 39:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, so we have a lot to learn, is the answer there.

• 39:33Danny Jones?

  Well, they're definitely super intelligent.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, the way they just, the way they treat white sharks is, in terms of just sometimes they'll just, they'll play with them and maybe they'll just eat their liver and not.

• 39:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Very interesting. They're, just the dominance there is impressive.

• 39:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've seen some videos of them attacking white sharks and I've heard about how they eat the liver. It's so strange.

• 39:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they, I mean, if you want to talk about non-human intelligence, that is a prime example of it.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Well, this is great because I have given talks about this. So people, when we get into that topic of aliens, non-human intelligence, you, all you need to do is go scuba dive a coral reef. There is such a diversity of non-human intelligence there. And, and I don't know if you've met Avi Loeb. He's the, he's a great guy and I like the way he thinks. He says, hey, here you are, here we are, the universe is 14 billion years old, the earth is 4.6 billion years old. And why would, if life has evolved here, so we know it's a property of the universe, why wouldn't intelligent life have evolved elsewhere? And, and we see it here, all sorts of non-human intelligence on a coral reef and elsewhere in the.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  I've been diving in the Galapagos for one, and that's, that's remarkable. So why, why not elsewhere? And I think that's, that's something that resonates with me, that argument. It makes a lot of sense. In fact, he likes to say, why would it be extraordinary to say there's intelligent life elsewhere? It'd be extraordinary if it weren't.

• 41:05Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, also, the deeper you get in our ocean is the more alien.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 41:11Danny Jones?

  The things look.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  So I love this because this ocean exploration program at NOAA, that's what they do. They go down with a 6,000-meter rated ROV and they're constantly exploring and looking for new species and they're finding them. We are finding new species every year and they're just bizarre. I mean, they are absolutely alien-looking. I mean, honestly, Hollywood hasn't dreamed up stuff as weird as what we see in the sea.

• 41:35Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, how deep do those vents get, those thermal vents? How deep are those?

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Well, they're over, at least, well, some are 4,000 meters or more.

• 41:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  There are different ones.

• 41:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  But ultimately, that life on some of those is very weird because they're chemosynthetic and so they're not like us. They're not, they're using, I forgot the different chemicals, but they're not necessarily oxygen, they're not oxygen-breathing. They derive their energy differently.

• 42:05Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  And that's a good sign of how weird it must be on other planets, too.

• 42:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And also, if you want to talk about other planets, I think most of the planets that we're aware of, that exist in like a Goldilocks zone, that are able to inhabit life, are water worlds.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  So far. You know, I don't think we've been able to characterize the exoplanets that are outside the solar system, but we do know that the moons of, I think there's Europa and Enceladus for Saturn and Jupiter. I forgot which one's which.

• 42:36Danny Jones?

  Oh, the moon, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  They're both ice-covered and they have, they have liquid underneath.

• 42:41Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  And so NASA has actually been funding our ocean exploration program, NOAA's, for that purpose, to develop the engineering methods to basically put a deep-diving ROV on a probe that can land on the surface, drill through the ice, and then go explore the under, under-the-ice oceans of those two. Yeah, interesting, huh?

• 43:03Danny Jones?

  Wow, that is fascinating.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we're making so, so many rapid advances in commercial space and you look how easy it is to get into space now with what SpaceX has provided.

• 43:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  That we might, we might see that in our lifetime.

• 43:17Danny Jones?

  I want to know why we haven't gone back to the moon.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  That's interesting. Well, obviously, you could see it's hard and I think it's mostly because the government is big and slow and we've just burned ourselves in bureaucracy and I'm pretty much happy with some of the things the current president's doing, but... They keep pushing it back every single year. Well, but again, I think, I think commercial, the commercial space industry is gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna do it. And in fact, we already had, we had, I forgot what was the company that just put a probe on the moon. This is, this is gonna happen, it's gonna explode in the next decade of commercial companies going out there. China's doing it, by the way.

• 43:54Danny Jones?

  To the moon?

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So hopefully, we can get this Artemis program on, on step. Yeah, but it's, it's frustrating for those of us who want to see more space exploration.

• 44:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it definitely, it's definitely strange. It's what, it's like the only, the Apollo program is the only technological program ever developed by any country or company that has not grown at all, or not grown exponentially since it was conceived of.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a odd thing.

• 44:26Danny Jones?

  Like, look at every other thing, look at every other technological advancement in the history of man, like, whether it be war tech or consumer tech, it's all, if you compare it to what it was in the seventies, it's all like, look at the, look at the phone, you know?

• 44:39Speaker 03

  So, did you ever have anyone on your show who said that the whole moon mission was a fabrication?

• 44:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Mark Cybrel, I've had him on.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  That's it, yeah. So, are you convinced?

• 44:52Danny Jones?

  I think if I had a gun to my head, I would say it was, it was faked.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Would you?

• 45:00Danny Jones?

  I, I don't know. I think, I think it's complicated. I think that it's possible that also, if they did make it, if they did go, I think they probably had a backup plan. Like a back, like backup footage of it. Or like, even if they did go, maybe they weren't able to get the cameras and the film through the radiation belt, right? It could have been destroyed by the radiation. So it's like, we went, but how do we prove it? Well, we, let's get the soundstage and let's record some stuff and, and make it look like we went.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:29Danny Jones?

  You know, there's just so many questions and, like, the way, like, I, I have people come on here all the time and tell me completely obscene, like, crazy, outlandish things that they, they come with evidence for, and it seems

• 45:43Danny Jones?

  compelling and reasonable and then I'll have somebody come in and then completely show me how that's all full, you know, complete bullshit and and and preposterous and with counter evidence. But the moon one is one that I haven't seen any plausible counter evidence or hard evidence to refute what like the skeptics say. So like until I can get an Apollo astronaut on here to like debate him, I don't know. I'm still up in the air with it. I don't know.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  It's funny because I lean towards it happened. But the more I get into this UAP topic and the government cover up, the more I'm inclined to believe almost anything in terms of the government fabricating a story.

• 46:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Because there's all this national interest for for doing so. We wouldn't want the Russians to make us think that we weren't ahead of them.

• 46:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  There's a ton of reason to do that. And the more I watch the government and having played in it at the high level I was at NOAA, I see how that spin doctoring occurs every day.

• 46:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  And and and it's a fine line between what is promoting American greatness versus what's lying, lying about what we're really doing.

• 46:48Danny Jones?

  Sure. There's there's big questions, man. I mean, it's a for one thing, there's so much stigma attached to questioning the moon landing. You're you're automatically a fool if you if you

• 46:57Speaker 03

  Or you're un-American.

• 46:58Danny Jones?

  Completely. And the other thing about it is that time smack dab in the middle of the Cold War, when the American government JFK was killed, when we were doing MKUltra experiments with drugs on people to do mind control. And Watergate, I mean, you name it, we were doing more, the the US government and intelligence agencies were were doing more deception and lying to the American people than ever before in recorded history.

• 47:24Speaker 03

  Very good point.

• 47:24Danny Jones?

  And the moon landing happened right in the middle of it. So is that the only thing that they did that was legit?

• 47:29Speaker 03

  I mean, there's a pretty strong record of lying to the public right there you just brought up.

• 47:34Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:36Danny Jones?

  So so, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I would love to. And then the other day I watched this crazy documentary called Room 237, I think it's called by Stan. It's a it's a documentary all about the

• 47:52Danny Jones?

  The hidden Easter eggs inside of the Shining movie.

• 47:57Speaker 03

  What?

• 47:58Danny Jones?

  Cause, okay, so this is crazy.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  We're addicts of that movie, by the way, my family.

• 48:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, really? So Room 237 is a documentary about the Shining and Stanley Kubrick allegedly implemented some, some hidden messages in that movie. So these people that made this documentary, I think for sure, they're making connections that don't exist. They're going way too far with it. But there are maybe 25 to 30% of the things in that documentary that I think are totally legit. For instance, there's this shot, so Room 237, basically in that, in that movie, that's what they call the moon room. So all this stuff happens in that room that doesn't happen anywhere else. It's 237, which was in the seventies and, uh, the seventies and eighties.

• 48:47Danny Jones?

  We thought it was exactly 237,000 miles to the moon. Since then, we've gotten, we've developed better sensing equipment to figure out it's like 900 more miles than that. We were like a thousand miles off. And then there's also the thing like the, the manager of the hotel looks just like John F. Kennedy in that movie. There's weird sort of inconsistencies with the continuity in that movie where there's like obvious things where the carpet pattern changes from one shot to the other. And other things disappear and like he's arguing with his wife about, don't you know about contracts? Don't you know about secrecy? I can't, you like, he's, he's fighting with his wife about living these two separate lives. And what they're speculating is that Stanley Kubrick's using this as like, uh, he's using that movie to like, sort of like,

• 49:29Danny Jones?

  tell people what really happened. And there's also a famous photo that you can find if you dig hard enough, Steve.

• 49:37Danny Jones?

  I was showing this to, uh, Rogan the other day of Stanley Kubrick on the set of 2001 A Space Odyssey, walking between the sound stages in the Europe and Jolly West is behind him. Walking behind him.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Jolly West is?

• 49:51Danny Jones?

  Jolly West is the, uh, the CIA guy who was a part of MKUltra. He was a, he was, I think he was a psychologist, a CIA psychologist. I could be wrong, but he was doing, he was doing stuff with drugs. Who's basically?

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 50:06Danny Jones?

  He was, he was a part of the whole MKUltra thing. Find out what his actual title was. I don't want to mess it up. But he, he was there for MKUltra and he was there, uh, he was the guy who interviewed Jack Ruby. Right before he had the psychotic break. So Jolly West is a very scary person.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 50:26Danny Jones?

  Who was involved in a lot of the most deceptive things that ever happened. No, that's not it, Steve. Jamie found it in five minutes, Steve, come on.

• 50:36Danny Jones?

  You can do it.

• 50:38Danny Jones?

  So anyways, we got off on a crazy tangent about the moon landing.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  Well, I bring that up because of what's happened recently and we kind of, I know you were vaulting ahead on UAP. And we could talk about why I care.

• 50:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  But ultimately, that's what's just recently, probably read those two Wall Street Journal.

• 50:55Danny Jones?

  I did.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  Articles.

• 50:56Danny Jones?

  I did.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  And total fabrication. And I know this 100% certainty, I actually wrote one op ed in the Hill about it with Chris Mellon.

• 51:04Danny Jones?

  I saw that.

• 51:04Speaker 03

  And I had another one in draft. The Hill rejected it, I'm trying to get it actually.

• 51:09Danny Jones?

  So explain to people who aren't familiar, what was the premise of that Wall Street Journal article that came out?

• 51:15Speaker 03

  There's two of them.

• 51:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  And they both basically are trying to debunk that UFOs are real. That ultimately, the first one talked about the fact that we were doing advanced technology developments and to cover it, we were planning false narratives out there about UFOs, about that actually. And we were tricking our own air force officers and believing it was a real program and they'd go to jail if they ever admitted it, being UFO retrieval program. When, and the article basically said it was just a hoax, a prank. And that was the first one. The second one was regarded some of the materials, crash retrieve materials.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  And ultimately, they mischaracterized an article by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal about that. And both of them at a high level were trying to discredit any validity with both the UAP

• 52:15Speaker 03

  programs, the legacy program of retrieving materials. And that was it. Both of them were doing that. And if you look at the details, there were so many errors in these. It was all false reporting. We tore it apart, Chris Mellon and I, the first one, the second one, in fact, was the same. And I wrote a letter to the editor and so did Chris Mellon, and she disregarded us, she never answered. And the key thing about this is, and I don't like. disparaging individuals, but it's, I guess, a key thing about this is, is the former Aero Director Sean Kirkpatrick was the primary source for these. And, and he's, he has a

• 52:54Speaker 03

  history of, of discrediting whistleblowers. And, and that's just true. He's, he's done that, so have others. And, and the thing that was most kind of telling for me is that after I testified to the House Oversight Committee in November of 2024, about what I knew, and you could go look at my statement and my observations and experience with the Theodore Roosevelt Strike Group and the videos that were subsequently released, that, and I talked about that, and I also talked about visiting Aero and how they were, they were discrediting other whistleblowers during my meeting with them. They actually, here was the crazy thing, and this is still out there. They, they said that Nimitz Tic Tac

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Event was actually a US tech demo. And there's a lot of reasons that I think that's a, that's a lot of BS.

• 53:43Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 53:44Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Because first of all-

• 53:45Danny Jones?

  I, I was kind of under the, I kind of thought it was US secret tech, black, black budget stuff.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  There's a lot of people saying this, but here's my point. And first of all, I know the four witnesses. I've talked to, I've talked to two of them, Dave Fravor and Alex Dietrich. And this, this is beyond, the acceleration was beyond anything they've seen. You know, Dave Fravor's great. I like him, Navy pilot. I work with these guys. He said, I don't know what that was, but I want to fly it, you know? And of course, but ultimately, so he couldn't imagine anything that we had like that, with the instantaneous acceleration that would have obliterated any material or person, person pilot. And the second thing is this, that was 2004. If we had some capability like that in terms of transportation or movement,

• 54:32Speaker 03

  we would have used it on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan to save lives. And if we didn't, and if that was US tech, then there's some real irresponsible actors out there. So I really, that's why I highly doubt it was.

• 54:43Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  But that's what the Arrow office was throwing at me. And actually, I visited them after Sean Kirkpatrick left. But the point being here is that in the Wall Street Journal articles that Sean was a primary source, after my testimony, he made a statement, and you can see it on Twitter, I think it was published, where he said this about me. He said, "Well, Mr. Gallaudet's obviously bitter that when he came to Arrow, I wouldn't give him a job. And I know that that's because he was prone to conspiracy theories without evidence. And I verify that when I ask some of his bosses." Okay, let me kind of set the record straight. That was his statement, public statement, he wrote it. "I never went there when he was there.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  I went there months after he left. And I didn't go there looking for a job. I actually went there on request of the Navy liaison, a friend of mine in the Pentagon for years. He asked me to visit." And so, there's that. First, and then why would I? Now, if you recall, I was an undersecretary in the Department of Commerce. That's higher than the four-star service chiefs. So, for me to go groveling for a GS-14 job at Arrow is a little bit absurd. Right. And then lastly, when he says, "Oh, I checked with my..." He checked with my bosses to prove that I was prone to conspiracy theories. So, in the last 15 years, my bosses have been two two-star admirals, four four-star admirals, and the Commerce Secretary.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  And I'm in communication with all of them except for the Secretary. And if Sean went to them, they would have told me. So, he basically, those are outright lies about me. Here I am, I'm just out to serve here and try to... So, what, why is he doing this? Of course. This is what you do when you want to cover up something. You tell a false narrative. It's what we do when we spy on other countries. We don't admit that we're spying on other countries, possibly with covert ops in their territorial seas, but we do it all the time. We know we do. So, that's the nature of... Of classification and compartmented programs is we never acknowledge them. And we'll often say they don't exist outright.

• 57:01Speaker 03

  And so that's just part of the UAP cover up. And I'm convinced that they've decided and they believe they're right. So I'm not going to throw, I'm not going to throw shade on their intentions. I think they believe it's a national security interest to keep UAP information and materials classified.

• 57:17Danny Jones?

  Classified.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Where I think a little differently. I think, yes, let's keep the tech classified. But so much is out there now and with the Schumer or with the UAP Disclosure Act, the genie's out of the bottle. And the American people, they have a right to know the nature of reality. And the fact that we're not alone, we're being visited. It's scary to admit that as a government because we can't control our airspace or water space. But it's the nature of reality now. And more and more people, people like you are helping tell the story. And there's a story out there the American people should know. And we just have to be careful about how we communicate it. And I believe what's in this UAP Disclosure Act through a process of controlled disclosure does that in the right way.

• 58:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, I mean, going to that Wall Street Journal article. One of the things about it, it is so bad. Like the excuses they gave in that article, for example, like the Malmstrom Air Force Base thing. That they were saying it was an EMP that they were testing.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  That's so artificial. It couldn't be done.

• 58:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:21Danny Jones?

  And Jesse Michaels did a beautiful video on this that people I recommend people check out. He pointed out like all the people behind the scenes working on this. And like, there was a lady who was a source for this article who was quite literally, he looked up her LinkedIn. She worked for Booze Allen Hamilton in the Department of Psychological Warfare.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 58:40Danny Jones?

  And she was the source for this article. So like, and there was a lot of other really shady people that were, that were working for this article. One of the guys who was one of the main sources on this topic for the Wall Street Journal was super sketchy. I forget his name. But and then like also saying that all this UFO stuff with all these people in history, like, you know, going back to Bob Lazar, all the way up to David Grush. Was hazing rituals.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:05Danny Jones?

  So if these are hazing rituals and these people are going through all this psychological trauma, I think there's like a big class action lawsuit like that's coming down the pike.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  I don't think they thought this through.

• 59:15Danny Jones?

  No.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Because there's all these legal issues with it if it were true. And it's so obviously, it's so obviously

• 59:22Danny Jones?

  It's lazy.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  False. Yeah, it was very, in fact, you're right. I thought it was pretty inept. And, uh, and but also there's some key people who've been following this issue for some time. One, for example, is Kirk McConnell, who had been on several Senate committees, he was a senior staffer for the Intelligence Committee and the Armed Services Committees in the Senate. And he'd been involved with this topic for years, at a classified level, and 37 years, by the way. And he hasn't heard of this, this whole hazing thing once.

• 59:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  So it's just obviously false. And it was, again, it was made for the average American to potentially, just basically cast a little doubt and stigma on the issue.

• 1:00:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  And a lot of average Americans don't think this through. And so they see a Wall Street Journal publication and think, ah, okay, there you go. UFOs are a hoax.

• 1:00:13Danny Jones?

  Right. Hey, guys, if you're not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video. Back to the show. Yeah, no, there's so, I mean, to be one of those officers that are working on those ICBM bases, like Malmstrom Air Force Base, you have to be like the top of the top as far as like being a mentally sane

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:00:34Danny Jones?

  Stable human being.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's absolutely screen for. In fact, because there's all these reasons for nuclear security, you wouldn't want someone who's unstable. That's another great point. Jesse's fantastic on this. He does his homework. But, um, so, and then there's the people who've written about it. So I think you probably know about Robert Hastings.

• 1:00:52Danny Jones?

  Of course, yeah. UFOs and nukes.

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  That's right. Great book. I read it. I'm basically, I stay in touch with him every week. And we communicated about shared interests. And here he's done it, you go, you read the book. And he did the research and, and the Wall Street Journal did not.

• 1:01:09Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. That, and that has been always one of my, my biggest fascinations because if these things are cited all around our nuclear sites on land. What the hell are they doing with the submarines underwater that are loaded to the gills with nukes and are all throughout the oceans?

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Danny Jones?

  So like, if I'm one of these guys who spends months on a nuclear submarine in the ocean, I'm sure these guys have to have some incredible stories. Some of them do, but I've never heard one. I've never heard one story.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  There's a reason for that. So first off, it's interesting. Let's just look at the data. A lot of these events have happened around nuclear powered aircraft carriers, right? Theodore Roosevelt, Nimitz.

• 1:01:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  So that's a lot of activity there. And I have had one report from an officer who was on a boomer ballistic missile submarine in the North Atlantic who observed a contact. I've shared this before, but really quickly, it had the characteristics of basically a Russian torpedo in terms of closing fast and at a high rate of speed and coming at the submarine.

• 1:02:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  And so they, and in an area they wouldn't have expected it. So they did all the crap procedures to avoid it. They turned around, they dove deep to nearly crush depth. And when the object got close to them, it stopped and it kind of went around to their stern and followed them for a while and then rapidly exited the area. And he's not sure what to make of that, but there shouldn't have been anything there because it was in the North Atlantic during a 40 foot seas.

• 1:02:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  And so that's when there's high ambient noise and they never, nothing could detect them. Subs, those subs are quiet and when there's really high ambient noise, they're undetectable. So that couldn't have been a Russian torpedo or high speed submersible that hadn't even been built yet. So there's nothing you could explain it. But I've not heard a lot of other reports from submariners because that is such a classified area because it's nuclear security and it's undersea security. Those are the most highly classified programs in the government. And so I've not been able to crack into them. I was tangentially. Read into some of that, but uh, and so I know about that, but nothing regarding UAP.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  But if anything about UAP in the water is, is that data resides anywhere, it's in those programs and they are locked tight.

• 1:03:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's this guy who Jesse also interviewed Harold Malmstrom.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Danny Jones?

  Who said to him, the Office of Naval Intelligence has more data on this stuff than anybody.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  Well, right. And he referred to the, I believe the.

• 1:03:56Danny Jones?

  More than the air force.

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. National Underwater Reconnaissance Office.

• 1:04:00Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  Yes. So that's it. I know about them, but again, I've not been able to see that information. He's very, uh, he's very credible and his, his daughter also served, I think in the Bush administration and the Reagan administration. And her name is Pippa and she's, uh, she's terrific too. He, he, he was right on. In fact, that's interesting. I've been working on this whole topic of the, the nuke detonations that brought down some UFOs. And that's, that's what Harold had also talked about.

• 1:04:28Danny Jones?

  Right. Yes.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of data there too.

• 1:04:31Danny Jones?

  So like if you're, so I mean, also a weird thing about being one of those guys on the submarines is like, you can't really see it. All you, all you, you're relying on radar or how does that work? Well, what other kinds of tools do they have?

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Sonar.

• 1:04:44Danny Jones?

  So how accurate can you get with something like, how much can you find out about an object that's around a submarine? But with just the tools that they have available to them.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  It's difficult and you don't want to go active. So active is how you can really characterize how, how large it is and uh, potentially even its shape, but that's going to reveal your locations. That's something submarines generally don't.

• 1:05:05Danny Jones?

  Going active.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Using active sonar, meaning pinging, sending out a transducer.

• 1:05:10Danny Jones?

  So they're making themselves, their location available to other subs.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Now you can use that. I did my PhD work on this. You can use an active sonar signal. Bounce it off an object and it comes back and you can use that just like radar, same principle, but with sound instead of EM energy. To characterize an object, its shape, it's if it's moving, if it's in its structure. And then, and we have high, high frequency sonars that do this really well. In fact, that we use them to map the seafloor and characterize shipwrecks. Oh, it does. Great work. But again, submarines generally don't want to do that because that reveals their location. So they normally are staying passive and it's very difficult to characterize an object.

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  Passive because of your only measure or you're only hearing the sound they admit, which is either from engineering or flow noise around the hull of the of the vessel or vehicle.

• 1:06:06Danny Jones?

  That incident you were just explaining to me where they thought it was a Russian torpedo. Did they go active there?

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:06:11Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:06:11Speaker 03

  So they were just listening and they, again, they dived.

• 1:06:14Danny Jones?

  They dove super deep though. And they thought they were getting chased.

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  Dangerously so. They were convinced they were going to get hit. They were doing all the things to prepare for getting hit and having, doing the damage control necessary. Yeah. Because they'd never seen anything like this and they had trained for Russian torpedo attacks. This was everything like it. So he called me up after I went public on this information because he said, I just got to tell you about this experience. So we stay in touch. There was another one, I think I shared about it also, where someone has called me up and said, hey, I was one of these acoustic intelligence specialists and we were on one of these ships that does this. They look for enemy submarines by doing two things. They first they send out a, it's called a, it's a high, it's a high energy active pulse.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  And then they, they listen and low frequency, it's low frequency active, they call it. So a high energy, low frequency pulse, long range, and it'll always get a bounce off a submarine. And that's how you find them. And then what you do is you listen passively to characterize the type of contact. So every type of adversary platform, whether it be a Russian submarine or a Chinese submarine, we know their signature. We know how, and it's by the, by the hull, the actual hull number. We know, we know they sound like. Each, the screws, the engineering equipment, the flow noise. It's pretty good. It's kind of like your fingerprints acoustically. It's some, that's, again, that's some of the most classified information out there.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  That, because we can't, if we reveal that. Reveal our sources, the people who found this information and that would get them killed. But this is how we, that's how we in the field know, ah, that's a, that's the Russian whatever. And so that's, that's what we've done. The whole core was built on that. Some of Blind Man's bluff is about that. Oh, really? But ultimately, this guy shared with me that he was out there in Japan in the, I forgot, the 2000s. And they found twice a really loud hit when they went active and they switched on to passive. And this is what they do. Every time they'll get a passive hit and they know, ah, okay. It was either exercise they did on one of our subs or they're out there listening for Chinese. Ah, it's one of theirs. And they had nothing. There's no passive hit.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  And but, but they had a super loud active hit. What does that mean? What does that mean? It means there was something big in the water moving because it wasn't there later. And it had no engineering components making noise. What the fuck is that? And then it was gone. It was in the water column. So what, whales don't do this, by the way. They're soft. They don't, they don't reflect sound pulses at that kind of amplitude or that source level. So it's a, again, these are people who had anomalous observations and experiences. And after I testified, they just wanted to call me and say, hey, I saw this. And in fact, not underwater, but very cool. After my last testimony, probably one of the neatest encounters or eyewitness encounters I had was this.

• 1:09:14Speaker 03

  I went and gave a talk. I, I always say yes to anybody, any university who wants me to talk about this topic. Cause that's how we're gonna, that's how we're gonna turn the tide. Uh, we're, it's the next generation who are not so stigmatized about this. So any university, I go, I went to Yale. They have a UFO society. And I give a talk and this guy comes down, he's, he's getting his graduate degree and he goes, hey, I want to tell you a story. Okay. He said, I was a Navy air crew on a SH60 Seahawk helicopter flying off the Dwight D Eisenhower in 2021. And, uh, he said, you know, we, a lot of the guys had filmed on forward looking infrared, uh, UAP. Uh, in fact, they had a folder on their secret drive and they called it range foulers.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  And this is a funny term because it's It's so the term in the Navy for anything not right, like a fouled anchor, then you use that for everything. Okay, foul the foul the range, right? Like a fouled anchor and what was fouling the range UFOs? So they had this whole file on all these UFO videos they had taken and they kind of used that name as a sort of joke, but ultimately they were keeping track of this stuff. And, uh, and so everybody knew about it, but it was, no one talked about it in the ready room that the skipper said, hey, we're not, we all know it exists. We're just going to live with it. No one really is asking us to report it. And so, um, but then there was a point in 2021 where the Joint Chiefs, based on pressure from Congress, directed

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  everyone to start reporting. So that's what they started doing, collecting the videos, sharing them with the intelligence officer with DIA. And he said, one night he was getting, there was going to be a drill to do a man overboard. And that's where they normally off a, okay, career. You don't, you don't launch a boat. You've launched a helicopter. It's a lot safer and easier. It's hard to launch. Really? Yeah. You don't, you don't launch a boat off a helicopter because the, the flight deck is something like 60 feet off the waterline.

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• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  So that's what that's the MO. You launch a helicopter to recover the man overboard.

• 1:12:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  So this was his job. He was a crew chief and there he thought there was going to be an exercise. Well, he got woken up one night and they didn't say it was an exercise. So he got, he thought, oh my God, it's a real world event. What had happened is he's waiting to get the plane ready and one of the pilots had some NVGs. And he asked him, what's going on? He goes, put these on. Look up there.

• 1:12:31Danny Jones?

  Night vision goggles?

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, night vision goggles. Look up there. And he saw flying over the character, really just slowly moving laterally. A metallic sphere about the size of a smart car. Just moving slowly like the Mosul orb like that, but at night. And, and everyone was tracking it. Basically, it was in the middle of the strike group. And everybody was basically saying, what the heck is that? So they launched the Hilo to get video of it. And he's, his crew chief has taken video of this thing. And it's just moving slowly. There's no signs of propulsion or, or, or flight control surfaces, just a sphere. And then after a time, it did what all these UFOs do. It just accelerated instantaneously and went to over the horizon.

• 1:13:14Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  And he said, not only did that happen a lot, he said that the guys in these other squadron that embarked on the Gerald four, the other carrier that deployed after them. Happened all the time too. So the, the Navy is sitting on a trove of UFO data, videos. Just as you said, ONI is, I mean, these are all sources coming to me saying, it's all there and it's all real.

• 1:13:41Danny Jones?

  There was also a video that I saw, I don't remember off what boat, what ship it was. But there was a video of like this orb hovering above the waves. And you could hear people talking about it in the background. They're like, da, da, da, da, da. Splash, like, oh, splash down, splash down, or whatever, like disappeared.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  So I, let me tell you about that. This is great because the. The petty officer on the bridge of that ship, the USS Omaha.

• 1:14:03Danny Jones?

  Omaha, okay.

• 1:14:04Speaker 03

  He's come out, actually.

• 1:14:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, his name is Senior Chief Petty Officer Alex Wiggins. And he came to me. So after my, at one point, I think maybe the Sean Ryan Show I was on or something. He basically wanted to make that report to me. He was on the bridge then. And what's interesting is I know how it is on a bridge and that the procedure is, that's like a code word. It wasn't just, they weren't saying, "Hey, it's splashing the water." If an object is seen to enter the water, typically it's because it crashed, an aircraft, or possibly a decoy or something. That's sort of a code, that is a code word used in the Navy. That something is in encounter of the water. And so that's why they said splash. Like, that is, that is a term that the log keeper put in the log. So it's official. It's not just, "Oh, it's splash."

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  It's actually an official term. And so when that happened, and that's why it was so weird, because it wasn't a helicopter. It was hovering, but you didn't see blades. It was spherical, and it went into the water. What's up with that?

• 1:15:03Danny Jones?

  Is it?

• 1:15:04Speaker 03

  That's it, that's right there.

• 1:15:05Danny Jones?

  Give us some, give us some volume.

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, they're on the Omaha. These are people, these are my people. I stood many hours of bridge watch.

• 1:15:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, look, he's filming the screen. Whoever made this video, they're filming another monitor.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's right.

• 1:15:22Danny Jones?

  They get in trouble for that?

• 1:15:24Speaker 05

  Frank Omaha, pick me kid, Rocky up, roll up the pass.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  So far, not that I know of.

• 1:15:28Speaker 05

  Helo ASAP.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  Helo ASAP?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, they wanted to go interrogate the target.

• 1:15:43Danny Jones?

  Is this boat moving right now?

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Yes, she was underway.

• 1:15:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, we have a 31 knots sustained wind topside gust.

• 1:15:57Danny Jones?

  31 knots.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  It's pretty windy.

• 1:15:58Danny Jones?

  That's windy.

• 1:15:59Speaker 05

  Splashed. Mark bearing and range.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Yep, they're following their, they're following their standard procedures. Good job, guys.

• 1:16:05Danny Jones?

  That's why.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  So I have been on the bridges of several ships, hours of hundreds, thousands of hours of bridge watch. So those are folks I supervised. And that, that petty officer who was on the watch there, he, he called me, talked to me about that experience. He said, we were seeing them all the time. He said,

• 1:16:21Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  He said, sir, this is so frequent off SoCal, we're desensitized to it.

• 1:16:27Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:16:28Speaker 03

  Yes, seriously. And then, then, and so the, you might have seen Jeremy Corbell had released video from the USS Jackson, same petty officer who gave it to him. Yeah, because he came to me and he actually shared me on Signal that video. And I, I said, and Jeremy, of course, said, I'd love to talk to him. And I asked him, are you okay with that? And he said, sure. So he shared.

• 1:16:47Danny Jones?

  Is this guy still active?

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  He's still active duty. Yeah. I, I, I'm a little surprised, but uh,

• 1:16:53Danny Jones?

  He hasn't been outed. They don't know that he's the one that's,

• 1:16:55Speaker 03

  Well, he did as a private citizen. I don't, he, I know he talked to the Navy lawyers.

• 1:17:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  Which, which are probably a lot looser than the Air Force lawyers. So either way, he got it cleared. And I,

• 1:17:07Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:17:08Speaker 03

  I know. I think that's really significant. I need to have a talk with him about that. But, but a terrific guy, and he's one of many sailors right now, former or still active duty, that are seeing these things. And, and yeah, and that's what I've been trying to do.

• 1:17:21Danny Jones?

  What do these guys think they are? Do you talk to them about it? We're like, what do you think about it? What do you guys talk about on the flight deck? Like, what is the?

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  It's like everybody in, in the public. It's a range of ideas and some people are really care, but that, that one crew chief who came to me after he, he left the Navy, he was, he said, this really affected him. Because normally he'd heard talk of it, but he'd never seen it. And when he saw it, he realized, like I did when I saw the video of the go fast, when it was still classified, I immediately knew, that's not ours, that's not our adversary tech, because I know adversary tech, I've been read in all that stuff. And I, I, we're not alone. There's something, I don't know what they're doing, don't know, don't know their intent, especially with nukes, that's pretty scary. But we're being a monitor.

• 1:18:03Danny Jones?

  I'm skeptical of the Go Fast and the Gimbal videos.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, I'm not at all.

• 1:18:08Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I saw the Go Fast. I mean, that's, by the way, if you look at the Go Fast, yeah, yeah, it wasn't going that fast. Okay, it was just, it's just a relative, but the point of...

• 1:18:18Danny Jones?

  The reason is the plane is flying really fast in one direction.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Danny Jones?

  And there's something flying the opposite direction. And with the parallax of the ocean behind it, it's totally plausible. It would look like it was going 1,000 miles per hour.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's, it was, so it was nicknamed the Go Fast. That wasn't what was anomalous about it. So Ryan Graves, have you had him on your show?

• 1:18:37Danny Jones?

  I have.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  He's great.

• 1:18:38Danny Jones?

  I've talked to him a few times.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  He was out there. They were seeing these things all the time. And in that one instance, it wasn't just one, it was in a formation. So what, how do you explain that?

• 1:18:48Danny Jones?

  I've talked about some things. I'll, I'll talk to you about it after we do the show, of some other reasons why I'm really skeptical about those videos.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:18:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:55Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. Well, I, I'm, I don't really, I'm in like the tic-tac. Well, here, I got something to share with you. So everyone wants to kind of dive into any given video. But what you really need to think about is the whole collective body of evidence.

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  I'm reading a book now by Jacques Vallée, who you should have on your show.

• 1:19:18Danny Jones?

  I'd love to.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  Uh, he's terrific and...

• 1:19:21Danny Jones?

  Can't get a hold of him.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:19:23Danny Jones?

  He's a, he's in high demand. I'm not, I'm not pushing it.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  Well, I, I just had a great exchange with him recently.

• 1:19:29Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:19:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm on a group with him and I'll ask him if he's gonna be in this area ever. And so ultimately, he wrote this book, The Invisible College.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  It was in 69 or something, or 75? I forgot which. I'm losing track because his body of work is so huge. And, and he, he just compiles thousands of these eyewitness accounts, and they're so bizarre. And so, you know, okay, I don't know. First, there's two things. The Go Fast and Gimbal, they look pretty odd. These are pilots seeing these things, talking about them. They are in that airspace every day training. If it looks unusual to them now, then? They're probably right in terms of being can't characterize it, don't know what it is. Those things are out there in the airspace all the time. Now, people say, oh, that was a US tech demo, just like the Tic Tac.

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  Now, in my, so in my experience here, what happened for me is I was, I was under Fleet Forces Command, the four-star Admiral in Norfolk, and I supervised all the weather guessers, no-shonographers in the Navy, and they were on the ship weather forecasting, the Roosevelt. So I had, I had some authority and responsibility for what was going on there. And, and I get this email from the ops officer at Fleet Forces Command who's overseeing the training exercise that Roosevelt was in, and he sends it to every subordinate commander, me, the, the strike group commander at the time, other strike group commanders, other commands, like the Navy Safety Center who reported to him, and, and the title of it was, all caps, Urgent Safety of Flight Issue.

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  And attached was the Go Fast video, and this is over the Navy's secret network in 1915, or 2015, before it was leaked or declassified. And, and he said, basically, if any of you know what these are, tell me ASAP. We're having numerous near-mid-air collisions. Remember, Ryan talked about a section of aircraft being split, which is absolutely crazy from a state, safety standpoint. Aircraft, you don't want aircraft to be within a mile of you. And, and, and so, he said, tell me ASAP, inferring, when he said, we might have to shut down the exercise if this still happens, if this keeps occurring. The implication was, if this is some crazy US tech demo, and I don't know about it, the two-star in charge of the exercise, or the two-star supporting the four-star in

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  charge of the exercise, he said, I need to know now, because there's, when aircraft carriers train to deploy like this, it's very compressed. Every pilot has to get certified to land on a flight deck. Every ship has to check a box about what they're doing. Can they do underway refueling? Can they perform these weapons launches and et cetera? So there's all these evolutions you have to be able to prove you can do before you go deploy. So there's no time to mess around. And the four-star that I worked for, every week he'd hold meetings with all his subordinates, I was one, and all, all they talked about was the training cycle, where we were, anything interfering with it. It was the number one job of that four-star, train forces to deploy.

• 1:22:28Speaker 03

  So when you have something effing with a training event, that's a big deal. And what happened is, that video and that email, the next day, it was wiped from my computer.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  And and we never and he never talked about that UFO encounter. So what was going on there? Well, it was obviously classified. Was it a classified US tech demo? I really doubt it. Because again, you got the four star and all those one stars and all these these forces, these ships getting ready to deploy. We don't do tech demos in training ranges. That's that's what we we do that in instrumented. Test ranges where we can gather all the data and say that worked, that didn't. And so I don't know the whole the premise of the Tic Tac and the Go Fast being tech demos in training ranges. That just doesn't fly with me. I don't know. There is this possibility that's been floated out there. Maybe they did do that, that they wanted that kind of real world sort of simulation.

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  But you know, in all my years in the Navy, we didn't just that's I never saw that happen.

• 1:23:28Danny Jones?

  How much collaboration does the Navy have with private contractors?

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  A ton.

• 1:23:36Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  They build they build our ships.

• 1:23:38Danny Jones?

  They so so if Lockheed or one of these corporations wanted to test some of their black tech that nobody knows anything about, not even the generals?

• 1:23:47Speaker 03

  China Lake, that's what they do. They have an instrumented range there. Yeah, and I've been there.

• 1:23:52Danny Jones?

  What's China Lake?

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  Oh, it's something I forgot the exact term of it. It's it's something like the Navy weapons and training. Ask Steve to look it up.

• 1:24:00Danny Jones?

  Okay. So it's like a it's just like a testing ground where there's no nobody.

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  That's what those places are for, and that's where we do it with those contractors.

• 1:24:09Danny Jones?

  It seems like from some of the stories of some of these whistleblowers.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:24:13Danny Jones?

  There it is.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Beautiful part of the country, by the way, the high desert.

• 1:24:17Danny Jones?

  It seems like, you know, some of the whistleblowers we've been seeing over the last couple of years have been alluding to this this shadowy. Private Navy or private military that is essentially commandeered, reverse engineered, somehow.

• 1:24:36Danny Jones?

  Advanced technology that they've been able to continuously develop and test without anyone, anybody in the US military or, or government, for that matter, knowing about or having access to. Like when you, like, for example, like the Michael Herrera stuff, or some of these other people that Jesse Michaels has talked to with like, um, crazy psionic type stuff, stuff that you don't need like hear about in Stranger Things or something like this.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  So I think private contractor possession and R and D of UAP materials is happening. I think that was really, we all know generally that that's how the legacy program was able to continue and not be held accountable to Congress. Uh, now I don't know the ins and outs and this is, this is all information I, I have second or third hand. And I'll just, I'll actually, my, my primary source is someone who's researched this thoroughly and has connections in the, the right way. And, uh, and I, I believe in him and his authority. I won't say I believe in him, I trust him. And so what he says I, I hold as true and that's Carl Nell.

• 1:25:44Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. In fact, I think you ought to have him on the show. He's, he's brilliant, a great guy. And he's with me, a leading advocate on the UAP Disclosure Act. So he's, he's touched these programs closer than me and recall, he was the army's point of, lead for the UAP Task Force. Another guy you might want to have on after his book comes out is Jay Stratten. So he, he led the UAP Task Force. These are questions they know better than me, I'm, I'm sure. Uh, and, um, and they, they all say words to the effect of yes. I don't know about Pentagon money going to it. I'm not sure about that. I, I don't know, but they, they probably have a better, better grip on that.

• 1:26:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I think it's probably just a mixture of everything. I think it's, uh, some of this stuff is probably stuff we have no clue what it is. Some of it could be foreign stuff. Some of it could be black budget stuff. Have you seen those, uh, those Lockheed Cormorants?

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  No, what's that?

• 1:26:43Danny Jones?

  You haven't seen the Lockheed Cormorant? Oh, Steveo. Pause that search for, uh, Jolly West and look for the Lockheed Cormorant.

• 1:26:52Danny Jones?

  It's a, it's this crazy looking, it looks like a Cormorant flying through the air, but it's an undersea sub. It's like a drone. There it is.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  Wow, wow. Is it, is it operational?

• 1:27:03Danny Jones?

  That's a good question. I don't know.

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  Unknown. Hmm, okay. Well, interestingly, uh, here's fun fact. Uh, so in my family history, yeah, I, uh, my, the original immigrant came from France in the late 1700s and, uh, or early 1700s and he, his son, our grandson fought in the Battle of Trenton and, uh, in the Revolutionary War, 1776. And then that was Peter Wallace Gallaudet became the,

• 1:27:31Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:27:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, became the, I'm going somewhere with this, became the personal secretary to George Washington when he became president. And then, uh, his uncle was the engraver of the first Continental Dollar. And then also a Gallaudet, Elisha. And, and down the lineage, there was a guy, a Gallaudet who founded an aircraft company that at the time, I forgot his first name, Edson Gallaudet, I think. Yes. He had this Gallaudet Aircraft Company. And there was a point, maybe 1917, where his aircraft called the Gallaudet Bullet was the fastest aircraft in the world. And then down the road, that company was sold and merged and ultimately became Lockheed Martin.

• 1:28:15Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I have a personal history there.

• 1:28:17Danny Jones?

  Holy cow.

• 1:28:19Speaker 03

  Pretty weird, huh? Yeah.

• 1:28:21Danny Jones?

  That's a pretty wild story, man. So you, you got some stock or what?

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  No, I wish. We, we lost that inheritance a long time ago. So, no.

• 1:28:30Danny Jones?

  Gallaudet's a badass name, too.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  You know, it's a small family. There's not many of us in the country and, uh,

• 1:28:36Danny Jones?

  It's like a strong Gallaudet. It's like a really cool, like,

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Well, it's like any of names like that. Originally was French. It had a T and an E on the end. And you know how that is when they came over, they made it easier for people to pronounce.

• 1:28:49Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  And ultimately, yeah, yeah, we're happy with it. How about that?

• 1:28:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, like these Cormorant drone, like these underwater drones are fascinating, you know, and I'm, I'm just like curious to,

• 1:29:00Speaker 03

  Oh, I had the biggest underwater drone fleet in the Navy.

• 1:29:04Danny Jones?

  You?

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah, that over 120 and there's more.

• 1:29:08Danny Jones?

  What do they look like?

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  So this is kind of my, this is my business right now. I'm a tech consultant for underwater, mostly ocean technology, but space too.

• 1:29:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:29:16Speaker 03

  And I've devised a whole bunch of ocean drone companies, surface, undersea. And there's a whole range of types, the types I owned were oceanographic. So they were long endurance, they're called gliders. So they don't, they have a thing called buoyancy propulsion, where they use an air bladder to change, basically the buoyancy, so it goes up and down and you throw some wings on it. There you.

• 1:29:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, whoa, that thing's spooky.

• 1:29:42Speaker 03

  So that's, that's an article I wrote. That's pretty cool. That is the Manta, a DARPA developed ocean drone. Yeah.

• 1:29:47Danny Jones?

  DARPA developed ocean drone?

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 1:29:49Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  That is a badass looking drone. I, again, I don't think it's operational, but I'd like it to be.

• 1:29:55Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. But, uh, and the other piece is a paper, an article I wrote on ocean drones.

• 1:30:04Danny Jones?

  We're, we're turning into the aliens ourselves.

• 1:30:07Speaker 03

  I know, exactly right. That's the interesting conversion. We're not, are we the origins of all these NHIs? And we're just seeing our relatives? I think so. I think we are.

• 1:30:16Danny Jones?

  I think so. That's my favorite hypothesis out of all of them is the time traveler one. I think that's the most compelling one. I know it's hard. I know there's a lot of, a lot of people to try to debunk it and there's a lot of questionable holes in it. But, um, goddamn, you know, just with like the history of, of human beings and our evolution and like the way we're going is like dropping sperm counts, dropping testosterone, fertility rate, dropping off cliff. And, uh, are you familiar with Michael Masters? His extratemporal hypothesis? Like if you look at all the abduction accounts of taking sperm and eggs from people, if there was some sort of cataclysm in the future, they would want to come back in time to replenish their population in the future with sperms and eggs of people in the past.

• 1:31:00Danny Jones?

  And goddamn, that's interesting.

• 1:31:01Speaker 03

  Heck, yeah. And I tell you, my wife and I, we both are into this topic together. And it's an interesting journey we've been on. And I can tell you how it started, but quickly, we would have thought, two years ago, this is all a bunch of BS, you know, abductions and all this. But man, now that we've met abductees, and we've read John Mack's book, by the way, which is really heavy, and The Communion by Whitley Strieber, we've met him. And then they're documenting all, so when Whitley wrote the book, he got all these letters. And they're all housed by people who said they had the same experience. And they're all housed at this place called The Archive of the Impossible at Rice University.

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  And the director of that is Jeffrey Kreipal, Dr. Kreipal, who's another interesting guy you might want to have on your show. Great guy. And actually, let's follow up after this. All these people I recommended, I'm personally in touch with. And if I say, you should go on Danny's show, they'll probably go on your show.

• 1:31:57Danny Jones?

  Beautiful.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:31:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Jeffrey's amazing. I love him.

• 1:31:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Danny Jones?

  So back to your drones. I want to see your drones. You're a consultant for tech companies that are developing these underwater drones. Are these them?

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  Look for ocean glider, Steve.

• 1:32:10Danny Jones?

  Ocean glider. Okay, what is the purpose of these drones? What's their function?

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  It's oceanography. So long endurance sensing of the ocean.

• 1:32:20Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:32:20Speaker 03

  And it's really relevant. So I had 120 of these, a big fleet, always out. That was, that's one right there.

• 1:32:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, cool. Like torpedoes?

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what they look like. And see that big antenna at the end? What they do is they do basically a zigzag up and down the water column. So change the buoyancy, you have two wings, so that allows forward propulsion with the sea water hydrodynamics. And then once they make a down and up profile, the antenna pops on the surface and sends a signal up by satcom. And it all gets fed into our ocean models, which are used by surface forces doing undersea warfare, or anti-submarine warfare. So you have to know, just like weather and its impacts on radar and visual satellite communication imaging, the ocean has weather.

• 1:33:11Speaker 03

  And so, you know, this, you're a surfer. So currents, sea state, salinity differences, all affect the speed of sound. So there are areas of the ocean that are-

• 1:33:22Danny Jones?

  Steve, these are all China ones. Can you find his?

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  If you can find the American one. God.

• 1:33:29Speaker 03

  Look at Naval Oceanographic Office.

• 1:33:30Danny Jones?

  What's the name of your company again?

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  Look at the Naval Oceanographic Office.

• 1:33:33Danny Jones?

  Okay. Naval Oceanographic Office.

• 1:33:37Speaker 03

  And that's funny. Ultimately, there's a story there. So when I had that fleet of ocean drones and we had brought the head of the Navy, Chief Naval Operations, John Richardson, to see them all, and he said, "Great, you should be doing this. We need to do more autonomy." A short time after that, 2015 or so, you might have heard the news, maybe it was 2016, when China seized one of our ocean drones. Do you remember that?

• 1:34:02Danny Jones?

  I do remember that.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Yes. And Trump even tweeted about it.

• 1:34:05Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:34:06Speaker 03

  I forgot what he just tweeted and said, but that got the news, right? And what happened was interesting. The... I never got... That's good. There you go. That's exactly what we're talking about. And so I never got a call saying by anybody in my chain of command, "What are you doing? Why'd you put your drone out there? They wanted us to be doing that." So they actually screwed up. And we use that to basically highlight all their negative and malign activity in the Pacific. And so we got a lot of good press out of that. And they quickly returned it to us. And what we get, we think, is that it was a lower-level commander of a ship who saw it surface and thought, "Oh, we should get this. This will be a prize. The leadership of the Communist Party will be so pleased."

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  And of course, it was an international incident and made them look really bad. So they...

• 1:34:55Danny Jones?

  And it was designed that way.

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  No, what I'm saying is I think they screwed up. I don't think... They made China look bad, not us.

• 1:35:05Danny Jones?

  Right, but we intended for them.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  Not really. Oh, no. So it was just doing its job. We didn't throw it out. Now, partially because it was in the South China Sea, and that's an area that we want to know the ocean really well, because if China, Taiwan is going to get invaded, we're going to have to put our submarine forces and special operations forces there to keep that blockade from happening.

• 1:35:31Danny Jones?

  Have you heard of that base called Diego Garcia?

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 1:35:35Danny Jones?

  What is that place all about? The place looks crazy.

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  Well, it's a...

• 1:35:39Danny Jones?

  Pull up a photo of Diego Garcia.

• 1:35:41Speaker 03

  It's where we... It's a strategic base, right? In the middle of the Indian Ocean.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  I've heard people call it the Area 51 of the Indian Ocean.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  I don't know anything about that. So

• 1:35:51Danny Jones?

  Sure, Tim.

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  No, no, I'll be honest with you. Because if there was something I couldn't say, I'd tell you.

• 1:35:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:35:56Speaker 03

  I would, I'd be on, uh, yeah. But, uh, it's, it's, it's a strategic asset. I think we based long-range bombers there at different times. And in fact, if I recall, yeah.

• 1:36:07Danny Jones?

  I found like a real, like a satellite photo of it. There you go. Look at that. Crazy. So they pull submarines inside there? Like, it's like, it's a perfect little, like a circular island that you can like park ships inside of, so they're safe.

• 1:36:21Speaker 03

  Those are called Atolls.

• 1:36:22Danny Jones?

  Atolls, right.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  And, and they're formed when, let's say, an island or a kind of volcanic formed island,

• 1:36:30Speaker 03

  starts to subside geologically, and the fringing reef around that island continues to build up over time. Takes millennia, but, uh,

• 1:36:39Danny Jones?

  We did all the nuclear tests at Atolls, right?

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  We did.

• 1:36:42Danny Jones?

  Bikini Atoll.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right. Yeah.

• 1:36:45Danny Jones?

  And they're perfect because it's like a safe haven from the, from the, um, from the ocean.

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  That's right. Now, these are great bases, of course, and that's why the Japanese seized them all in the Pacific. At the outset of World War II. They, they had a lot of value, and then we went and retook them. So they're, they're, yeah, this is a very valuable asset.

• 1:37:00Danny Jones?

  What a crazy place to be stationed, too.

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have a good buddy, uh, he's in my book, actually, because he's a mentor of mine. His name was Admiral Tim McGee, and he was stationed there for a while, and a surfer like you. And, uh, surfed, surfed a lot there during that tour.

• 1:37:16Danny Jones?

  On the Atoll?

• 1:37:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  Same with, I don't know if you've ever been to Guam?

• 1:37:20Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:37:21Speaker 03

  Especially when you got a typhoon out there. Guam can have some good surf.

• 1:37:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. I've seen it.

• 1:37:25Danny Jones?

  Dang, man.

• 1:37:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Pacific Islands, for sure. And, and great, great scuba diving.

• 1:37:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, I bet. I bet it's probably incredible there. Um, so you mentioned also this dude Victor, um,

• 1:37:41Speaker 03

  Vescovo.

• 1:37:41Danny Jones?

  Vescovo, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's this guy's story? And are you, I heard you're like working with him to do some sort of mapping of some, some stuff?

• 1:37:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, great guy. So I got to know him because he and I signed an agreement. When I was at NOAA, he had this expedition going on where he, as a private equity investor, he had basically bought a ship and got a firm called Triton Submersibles to build a sub that it was full ocean depth rated. And he decided, well, here's a backstory of Victor. He's a mountain climber, started out as a mountain climber. I was also a naval intelligence officer in reserves. And he just really enjoyed climbing and he eventually scaled all the seven highest peaks on the continents. And then there's a thing called the Explorers Grand Slam where

• 1:38:33Speaker 03

  if you do the seven highest peaks and ski to the North Pole and the South Pole, that's what you get. So Victor did that. And that wasn't enough- Ambitious fellow. Yeah. Actually, he's a very soft spoken guy. He's a total gentleman. He's not full of himself in any way, but he can do things. And then, so he said, there's more to do here. And he realized that all the deepest trenches around the world, ocean trenches, had never been dived in. Only one, that was Challenger Deep in the Pacific, the deepest one. And a Navy lieutenant named Don Walsh did it in 1960 with a Frenchman named Jean Picard in a submersible called Trieste. And then James Cameron tried it again in 2012- Is this Marianas Trench?

• 1:39:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay. Yes. And the name of that specific deep part of it is called the Challenger Deep. How deep is it? It's 35,000. So that's seven miles. Seven miles deep. Is that the deepest part of the ocean? Yes. It's crazy. And- That we know of. I think we have a pretty good bead on, we have the general understanding of the bathymetry of the seafloor around the world. We just don't have very precise measurements in all of it. But we have mapped that area quite a bit. And in fact, the coolest thing is that when we signed our agreement, we put our scientists on his ship. And to do an accurate depth measurement that deep-

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  You actually have to measure it quite a bit and put down sensors to calculate the sound speed profile all the way up, all seven miles. Because you need to know how the sonar refracts all the way down to get a true estimate of its vertical depth. It's a tricky calculation, and so we put enough data in there to make the most precise measurement of that deep spot ever.

• 1:40:27Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  And then he went and mapped the Aleutian Trench for the first time ever, never been mapped.

• 1:40:33Danny Jones?

  Where's the Aleutian Trench?

• 1:40:34Speaker 03

  It's up near the Aleutian Islands in Alaska.

• 1:40:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:40:37Speaker 03

  And that's US Exclusive Economic Zone, it's important information to have, and that was part of our whole national plan to map the US EEZ Exclusive Economic Zone. That's something I put forward as a recommendation, and the Trump administration said, "Do it." And so we put together this whole national plan to do it, and it's still being followed. So that's why we have mapped at least 25% of the seafloor in our EEZ. It wasn't even 20% when we started. But anyways, Victor helped us with that, and a great guy. Now, what he's doing is he's realized the cheapest way to map the ocean, all that 75% that's not been mapped, is to use autonomous ships and make a fleet of them to do it.

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  And actually, he wants, well, it's probably better to have them be minimally manned with one crew, and so he's building this plan to deploy that. And I'm an advisor with him on this, and we stay in touch on different topics. We actually have a special project I can't talk about to go somewhere that your podcast has talked about, I'll just say that, an ancient site underwater.

• 1:41:40Danny Jones?

  An ancient site underwater that I've talked about?

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:45Danny Jones?

  Uh, with man-made stuff underwater?

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  We're gonna go map it and put a ROV on it.

• 1:41:53Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  And try to date it and confirm its existence. And I'll just leave you at that.

• 1:41:59Danny Jones?

  There was a story that came out, I heard recently, who told me this? That there's, I don't know if this was like special information that shouldn't talk about publicly?

• 1:42:10Danny Jones?

  But I heard that, oh no, there was an article, there was an article in the Jerusalem Post, actually, about, uh, they're, they're making some sort of a movie about a discovery off the coast of Spain, they think it could be Atlantis.

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  I saw that, was it Spain?

• 1:42:23Danny Jones?

  I think it was off the coast of Spain.

• 1:42:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I read about that, and I don't think it's right.

• 1:42:28Danny Jones?

  Why not?

• 1:42:29Speaker 03

  Well, uh, and, and this is, if you do, if you read, that's it, yeah. If you read

• 1:42:34Danny Jones?

  Cadiz.

• 1:42:37Speaker 03

  Plato's dialogues, uh, where all that inform, he, he puts out a lot of information on the very specific

• 1:42:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  location of it, and so I, I don't think it was that close to Spain.

• 1:42:50Danny Jones?

  No, no, according to what Plato wrote, um, it was most likely, um,

• 1:42:59Danny Jones?

  what is that chain of islands called? What's the chain of islands called that's off the coast, it's, it's kinda off the coast of, of Spain? It's like in the Atlantic, uh, Azores, the Azores.

• 1:43:11Danny Jones?

  My buddy Randall Carlson,

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Danny Jones?

  who talks a lot about this stuff, he's, he's been trying to put together an expedition to go out to the Azores for a while. It's a fascinating looking place, that would be a fun place to scoop and dive.

• 1:43:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:24Danny Jones?

  But, uh, yeah, yeah, the, the problem with the Atlantis stuff is that, are you familiar with the chain of transmission?

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:43:33Danny Jones?

  With Atlantis?

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:43:34Danny Jones?

  It's insane. Steve, I don't know if you ever saved this photo, but we, we famously, we've gone over this many times. There, the train of transmission with Plato is, it starts with,

• 1:43:46Danny Jones?

  uh, it basically, from the time Plato wrote about it, he was told about it

• 1:43:55Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:43:55Danny Jones?

  from somebody like a hundred years before that, I think it was Pliny the Younger.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:44:00Danny Jones?

  And then Pliny the Elder was like a hundred years before that, and then apparently the gap between

• 1:44:08Danny Jones?

  Uh, Solon and the person Solon got it from was like a thousand years or something like this. So there's like, it's like a thousand years of verbal, basically transmission, never written down once until Plato. And then, you know, an oral history going back 1500 years is crazy. Oh, there we go. Beautiful. So, okay, number one, the destruction of Atlantis, 9,000 years before Solon.

• 1:44:42Danny Jones?

  So the oral history of a thousand years, written down by the Egyptians, eight, this is confusing. 8,000 years before Solon, it was written down. So there's a thousand year gap between when Atlantis was allegedly destroyed from the Cretias and when it was first written about. So, um, no actual writing of this from Egypt. The priest, the priest reads records, years pass, then tells it by memory to Solon without consulting any written records. Uh, Solon tell, uh, tells his relative Dropades. Dropades tells it to his son, Cretias the elder. At age 90, tells his Cretias the younger.

• 1:45:27Danny Jones?

  And then the younger tells Socrates 50 years later and then Plato writes it down.

• 1:45:33Danny Jones?

  So this is like, so it's basically, uh, uh, like eight, like 7,000 years of just oral transmission of the stories before he writes about it. You know, which is like, maybe, but, uh, it's really, it's really fascinating and Plato was known for, he was not a historical writer. He was a philosophical writer and he wrote about hypothetical war games and, you know, things like the allegory of the cave and he was, he was, he was writing about, you know, hypothetical thought experiments, things like this, you know?

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  Well, yes.

• 1:46:10Danny Jones?

  Not to discredit, not to say that there absolutely could be some remnants of a lost underwater city or civilization, just the way like, the way that the climate has changed over millennia, since before the younger dries, the Pleistocene, and like, the lowering of the sea level, it's very, very likely that there could be ancient cities that are under the oceans.

• 1:46:32Speaker 03

  100%. And actually, have you ever heard of the Silurian hypothesis?

• 1:46:38Danny Jones?

  I think so.

• 1:46:40Speaker 03

  Steve, check it out, S.I.L.U.R.I.N. I believe it's this idea that the Earth is so old, that there would have been enough time for an advanced civilization to exist millions of years ago, and that there'd be no sign of it in the geological record because of millennia of all the geologic and volcanic and cataclysmic processes that occur here. So if you just do the math, like Avi's done, there could be intelligent technology civilizations that have already formed here and become extinct.

• 1:47:18Danny Jones?

  Right, totally.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  And why not? So I don't, I think ultimately, I want to see some data on Atlantis, and I have a few leads, but I'll just leave it at that. But then there's even the idea going farther back. And maybe you've had some folks on your shows that have found, for example, metals and objects that were in parts of the geologic strata that they never should have been. You know, I forgot the exact examples of that, but there are a few out there. Very odd.

• 1:47:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this is the core idea, is the hypothesis questions if a civilization capable of industrial activity could have risen and fallen on Earth before humans, and if so, how we might find evidence of it. That's the problem, is there's no toasters in the desert. We can't find any ancient toasters, but we do have the megalithic blocks. We do have the great pyramids.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  So I, this is our discussion before. Yeah, you look at, you go, if you've been to Louvre, or have you been to Egypt?

• 1:48:18Danny Jones?

  I've never been there.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  Have you been to Louvre?

• 1:48:19Danny Jones?

  I have been to the Louvre.

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  So you've seen the Egyptian carvings, stone carvings, and it's just as you said earlier, they didn't have the tools to do that.

• 1:48:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Had, did, did Giorgio Gianni on your show talk about his hypothesis, for example, of ancient stone structures and Atlantis specifically?

• 1:48:37Danny Jones?

  Uh, he's got a lot of crazy hypotheses, but, uh, hypotheses, I don't know how you say that.

• 1:48:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:48:43Danny Jones?

  One of his is that the pyramids are like time travelers going back and like creating this stuff to like try to communicate with us. I, I get lost in some of this stuff.

• 1:48:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, he's interesting, but I, I did, I did like his Atlantis, uh, I guess, explanation. And then he, he, in this show, uh,

• 1:49:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, remind me what it was.

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  He, he thought that the Atlanteans had developed a form of collective consciousness that, and, and you, when you start looking at psi phenomena, uh, this, and you extend it to, uh, a civilization, uh, his, his thought was that large stone structures could be carved and transported with a collective conscious mental, like psi, psychokinesis, um, and mass effect. And when you, and I'm just starting to look at this whole thing, uh, because it's, it's coming out now as we talk about NHI and UAP and

• 1:49:43Danny Jones?

  Like levitation?

• 1:49:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:45Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. And, and, and the actual carving of the stones. I mean, you've, you've, you've, you've had on guests who, who have said that they did not have the, the Egyptians and others before did not, that was the Sco Beckley Tepe?

• 1:49:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:59Speaker 03

  That's, they didn't have, what, what do they have to do that? They did not have the metals to do that.

• 1:50:02Danny Jones?

  This is the most fascinating stuff to me. Have you seen these? No. These are, this is a 3D print, obviously, of a real granite vase that was found underneath the step pyramid. Granite? Granite. One of the hardest stones known to man. And there's multiple, there's one over there, that's another 3D print. I have a friend of mine who bought a bunch of these on the antiquities market and they were confirmed, created, uh, 4,000 years ago, between 4 and 5,000 years ago, when conventional Egyptologists say the Egyptians were carving stuff using flint chisels and pounding stones. That's all they had. That's right. And now you have granite, the hardest stone on the earth. They took these vases that were made of, that are made of granite and they measured them

• 1:50:47Danny Jones?

  in a light scanner at a huge aerospace company. Might have been Rolls Royce. Yeah, what was the precision in terms of the symmetry? Perfectly symmetrical and the deviation, uh, the, the biggest deviation was like less than the width of a human hair. Yeah. And, um, That, that looks machined. Oh, 100%, especially when you consider the fact that these handles are built into it. Wow, yeah. The handles are part of the, of the whole entire piece of granite. Right? And you look inside the actual vases and you can see little tiny lined machine marks etched in the granite, like it was, like it was built on a CNC machine. Oh, wow.

• 1:51:28Danny Jones?

  But they know, like, we, like, people have, like, there's been people that are studying this right now who I'm currently talking to that are, are talking to all the biggest granite manufacturers, people in China who are contracted to use CNC machines to print stuff on computers. And they say there's no way they could do, recreate something like this. With granite? With granite. Wow. So how did they do that 5,000 years ago? That's right. If it was 5,000 years ago, it might be way older. We don't, I don't think there's any way to carbon date it. But, you know, there's so many questions, man. It just doesn't line up. I mean, just the idea that this, we're on this linear timeline and that, you know, we started as cavemen and, you know, 100,000 years ago and it was a linear progression ever since then is, uh,

• 1:52:12Danny Jones?

  is, is, I think that's been... Debunked big time, especially, there's just so much evidence contrary to that.

• 1:52:20Speaker 03

  I do, I think we have to reexamine many of our theories and it's a, and this is a big reason why I've come out on this UAP topic. It's just, again, like Avi said, it's not extraordinary to think that technology or advanced civilizations from somewhere are visiting us or have evolved elsewhere. And it's extraordinary to think they wouldn't be because of the size of the universe. So, but nonetheless, the mainstream media and mainstream science refuse to open the door to that possibility. They'll entertain it a bit, but they don't, they won't, there's only a few journalists, not a few, there's not many journalists.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  They're out there that'll embrace this topic and they'll kind of treat it as something novelty and then they'll move on to the more mundane, everyday things that are in the world. And I think I've always, I don't have an agenda here, I just want to know the truth.

• 1:53:13Danny Jones?

  Right, this is the, this is one of the most frustrating topics to talk about because it is by design. The whole topic and the whole narrative combined with the way the internet works is the perfect deception cauldron pot of disinfo and accurate info. So it's designed so you will never find the truth. You're constantly going to be a dog chasing its tail with this stuff.

• 1:53:39Speaker 03

  Well, true.

• 1:53:41Danny Jones?

  And when you add in the fact that you also have people like me online trying to talk about it. And you have people that just do this stuff because they make money doing it, right? They want to sell books, there's people doing it, you know, people that aren't actually objectively looking at stuff like Jesse Michaels is, he's one of the greatest.

• 1:54:00Speaker 03

  He's doing great work.

• 1:54:01Danny Jones?

  But you have other people that are just like latching on to like specific narratives and just pushing that because it gets them more followers. It makes them more money. Then you have to add in all the disinfo, all the intelligence agents, all the fricking media people that are paid off, like the Wall Street Journal, that are being told by people, you know, in intelligence, whether or not something's right or wrong, like signing off on an article, like before it gets published. That's crazy.

• 1:54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. And I think there's just a lot of very disingenuous and unethical.

• 1:54:35Speaker 03

  Activities going on in this whole world and in this space. And so I'm trying to counter that or avoid it or get beyond that. It's difficult. It's definitely difficult. But here's one for you. So as we, my wife and I, Karen, pursued this topic. Have you had any remote viewers on your show? I've had a few. You have. I saw that. Well, it turns out my wife is taking a course. And one of the original remote viewers is Paul Smith. And he was in the Army and he did this work, I believe, for the CIA. And he has a book out. It's basically The Guide to Remote Viewing. And this has been really interesting. Okay, so how does it work? Well, I don't know, but it works.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  Because if you read his book and some of the work by Joe McMonigal, he's also, any of his interviews are really terrific because They are. He lays it out there. And so my wife's been taking these courses. And it's very deliberate, methodical how they do that, the course. And she's, and she's basically gotten what they call hits. She's had the Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're talking, what they do is they'll have a scene and they'll give her coordinates. And they have a clear image. They have a picture from it. And then they teach her a protocol on how to basically channel, or if you, for lack of a better word, where that is. What's there?

• 1:56:00Speaker 03

  And she's done this probably seven or eight times. And on almost every time, she's gotten it right. And it's been these complex, either buildings, landscapes. And she has described them, you can't make it up. And so it's been fun to watch because everybody has the ability. And when they teach you the protocol about how to it's non-local communication and information transfer, which is nothing unusual if you, if you accept the fact that quantum mechanics and physics is real. Right. That's non-local communication and information transfer that our minds have the same ability. And in fact, there was a guy named Alexander Went who wrote a book about this called Social Science and the Quantum Mind,

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  I believe it's called. And he, he, he looks into this idea that we are, we're basically

• 1:56:54Speaker 03

  Wave functions, like if you study quantum mechanics and the fact that an observer will collapse the wave function to a

• 1:57:01Danny Jones?

  The observer effect.

• 1:57:02Speaker 03

  That's right. And that that's what we are really.

• 1:57:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Have you heard Giorgio Gianni's theory on this?

• 1:57:07Speaker 03

  No, tell me.

• 1:57:08Danny Jones?

  He's got this theory that reconciles that with the simulation.

• 1:57:12Speaker 03

  Oh, that's another one. Okay.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So there's this guy named Claude Shannon, who was the one who developed the idea of transmission, transmitting data like, like bits, binary bits. And that was after the Turing computer in the 40s, after we first developed computers. And then there's this other guy named Rolf Landauer, who came up with a theory that data on a hard drive has mass.

• 1:57:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:42Danny Jones?

  So the way he reconciles, the way he explains that is using like the two laws of thermodynamics. One of them, that energy can never be created or destroyed, only transferred. And the other one is entropy always goes up in a closed system in our universe. Disorder, it always increases, hence like the heat death of the universe. So if you, if you take those laws, that entropy always goes up. And that energy and energy and mass are interconvertible and energy is never created or destroyed, only transferred. If you have a blank hard drive, it's going to be all ones or all zeros before you encode data, before you store data on it. Then it becomes high entropy disorder, a chaos, a chaotic mass of ones and zeros

• 1:58:27Danny Jones?

  on that hard drive. Right? So what happens if you erase 100 terabytes off of this hard drive? It goes from chaotic chaos, ones and zeros to all zeros, all ones. The entropy goes down. Which according to the law of thermodynamics, it can't happen. That, that has to be transferred out of the hard drive. So if you do have all the data on the hard drive.

• 1:58:53Danny Jones?

  It would be theoretically, according to Landauer, that and you could and you could weigh it. And if we had tools to weigh those hard drives, he thinks that all the hard drives across the face of the earth right now and all the server farms, all the data on every single hard drive would be like a kilogram right now. Oh, boy. But like every year, the data storage goes up 25%. Now, if you add in exponential growth, like reaching the technological singularity, how much that's going to grow, it's going to be, we don't know what that's going to be. But if you keep it stable at 25% growth every year, he theorized in like 304 years, we're going to have the mass of the moon on the surface of the earth in data stored on hard drives, right?

• 1:59:35Danny Jones?

  So, and then, so here's the crazy way, here's where it gets crazy. If you crack open a hard drive, when it has all this data stored on it, you can't see anything. There's no, you can't see the mass, you can't see the data, right? So if the stuff on the hard drive is actually mass, and if you can weigh it, and it actually, you know, is mass, and it's electromagnetically indetectable, he says, what other kind of mass do we know of that is not detectable electromagnetically? Dark matter. Because we looked at the spins of the galaxies, we looked at the center of the galaxy, the spin is the same as the outer rim of the galaxy, when it should be faster on the inside.

• 2:00:18Danny Jones?

  So they're saying that dark matter has mass, that's flattening the spin rate of all these galaxies. So he's saying if dark matter is the same thing as mass on a hard drive, that means mass, energy, and information are all interconvertible, not just mass and energy. Yeah. So that means dark matter is a computational cloud. And our consciousness, we're using consciousness as a fundamental way to interact with that, the same way you use a computer screen to interact with a hard drive.

• 2:00:53Speaker 03

  So I was just talking to my wife about this.

• 2:00:55Danny Jones?

  And he thinks that reconciles perfectly with parapsychology and stuff like ESP.

• 2:01:00Speaker 03

  That's right. And in fact, I forgot the researcher Karen told me, and I don't remember. She, there's a paper out there, there's probably many about weighing someone's brain after, before they die and after they die.

• 2:01:14Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  And it weighs less after they die. And this isn't, this isn't anything about the, the fluids and whatever. It's, energy and mass are equivalent and you have energy as a conscious entity. And that, that trend, that somehow that, that energy gets transferred somewhere and you can measure it in, in mass equivalent.

• 2:01:34Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:01:35Speaker 03

  Yes. And I, and I, and we haven't gotten to this part yet, but I'm 100% certain that human consciousness survives physical death.

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• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  I don't have any doubt in my mind. And I know this for a lot of reasons and that have all sort of just a big series of events and things I've read. And, and I, again, there's so much in. Other religions that embrace this and so I this is again like UAP. People think this is so fantastic in the mainstream media and mainstream science world. Where almost every civilization has embraced it.

• 2:03:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  And we're only now coming back to that.

• 2:03:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:14Speaker 03

  There's a there's a and this is all being studied. Bigelow studied it. And then there's the University of Virginia's Division of Perceptual Studies, DOPs. I think that's the right name of it. This is what they do. They have scientists that are dedicated to studying this. This whole phenomena, which is really fascinating. And again, I have actual proof. And I know this is I know we had a life experience that caused us to look at. Come into contact with a number of mediums and they are all more accurate, so accurate that you can't make it up. You can't accidentally arrive at the things they know. In fact, I know several of them and they're very and they're not charlatans, not doing this to make money.

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  They have a gift, they could connect to that. And there's a weird interplay again with NHI and I don't know how that fits, but it's it's. And in fact, Jacques Vallée and the Invisible College talks about this parapsychological paranormal element of UAP.

• 2:04:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:15Speaker 03

  I don't understand it all yet, but I know what I've seen and yes.

• 2:04:21Danny Jones?

  There's definitely something there and the the simulation aspect to it. If you if you look at the observer effect and you say that, you know, when the wave function collapse, only when you're collapses and you see things only when you're when you're observing them, do they actually happen? I mean, that makes perfect sense in a video game because it's conserving processing power. When you're in one room in a video game, the outside of it is not being rendered until you actually go there. Right? And that also works perfectly with Sheldrake's morphic resonance, right? If one problem is solved in one part of the world, like if one person breaks a world record in France. Some they're going to be five more people breaking that same world record in the next couple of years somewhere else.

• 2:05:01Speaker 03

  I like what that guy says. In fact, I because he explains monarch butterfly.

• 2:05:07Speaker 03

  Migrations over generations, do you know about that? So if you look at monarch butterflies, how they migrate from Mexico to the US. I've seen it firsthand in New Orleans and it's spectacular. But ultimately, these animals, they don't learn it from an experience. They don't ride the bus with their parents one day and then next day after their parents pass, they've learned it and they do it. No. These animals die before they've completed a full cycle of going one way and coming back. So they, and the only way that would explain how they know. And then there's also things like whale migrations or whatnot over the whole half of the planet.

• 2:05:52Speaker 03

  That there's this resonance of consciousness somehow. And I know that's touchy feely and there's not, we need more data to explain it. But it's the first step, I think, at explaining phenomena like that.

• 2:06:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, same with bird migrations too.

• 2:06:13Danny Jones?

  I have a friend who

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  You have a friend?

• 2:06:15Danny Jones?

  I won't say his name, one friend. He was telling me this funny story yesterday and he's a, like a very wealthy guy. Who is not really into like any kind of like woo woo spiritual stuff at all, right? He's all about his business and doesn't want to waste time doing anything. And he recently did DMT in his backyard by himself. And he was telling me, he's like, Danny, he was like, I was sitting in my backyard and I tried this DMT stuff. And I noticed this tree that I never even knew was in my backyard. I'd never even thought about this tree, never even looked at it once or ever had one thought about this tree.

• 2:06:58Danny Jones?

  And he's like, it started communicating to me and telling me that it was in pain.

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  What? Really?

• 2:07:04Danny Jones?

  And he's like, it was struck by lightning, I guess. Like during that hurricane that happened a couple of months ago.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:11Danny Jones?

  And this is so weird coming from this guy. This is the opposite guy I would ever expect. And he was telling me this sober, obviously, this was like a day later. And he's like, dude, it was so convincing. He's like, I'm hiring people to come out and like try to bring this tree back to life.

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 2:07:27Danny Jones?

  And he's like, I'm gonna go talk to it again tonight.

• 2:07:30Speaker 03

  That is a great story.

• 2:07:32Danny Jones?

  But like.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  I think of all the stories you just said.

• 2:07:35Danny Jones?

  I think that's real.

• 2:07:36Speaker 03

  I think it's totally real. I you have to think, living things, living things, I, I, I, why if we have consciousness? And, and you know damn well, other mammals do. If you have a dog or a cat, they are absolutely conscious.

• 2:07:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  Why wouldn't other living things have some degree of that? And I, I mean, I, I not, I fully can't grasp how, how that, what that is.

• 2:07:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:59Speaker 03

  But and you've probably seen the studies where they'll put in a, a, like an arboretum or what, or a greenhouse, a bunch of plants and they'll play like heavy metal and, and another one time they'll play like classical music and, and they'll start thriving under the classical music and they'll start wilting under, you know, there's something there.

• 2:08:18Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:08:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's an interesting story. My wife's a big animal and plant lover, so she is just going to love that story. I hopefully it won't get her to start taking DMT, but maybe that'll be good. I don't know.

• 2:08:30Danny Jones?

  Hey, man, there's worse drugs you could do.

• 2:08:31Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:08:32Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah, no, I think, um, you know, especially too, like animals like cats and dogs, you know, there's always like, I think they can, they can sense stuff, you know?

• 2:08:42Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:08:43Danny Jones?

  Like they can sense stuff that we don't know what it is, like energy, like, you know, like you ever go into a house or whatever and just be like, ooh, something like somebody was murdered in that house before or whatever.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  Like when you know you're being washed or that too, or, uh, so, uh, animals, dogs, this is interesting. There's, there's that, uh, and then there's other stuff too, maybe, maybe related. So everybody knows dogs sometimes know when an earthquake's gonna occur. You know what that?

• 2:09:07Danny Jones?

  I've heard this.

• 2:09:08Speaker 03

  Oh, I know it to be true. I lived in Southern California. I've been through a lot of earthquakes.

• 2:09:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:09:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And then I have friends, neighbors, oh, yeah, the, the dog was freaking out. So, now there's a physical explanation for this and this, this goes to, and this reminds me of the UAP thing because it's ignoring mainstream science, ignoring really, uh, relevant.

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  Research pursuits. Okay, so when I've been working with this company and they use what they call space weather, which is ultimately ionospheric variability. The ionosphere has charged particles. You see evidence of that in the auroras. And so, and what happens, and they call this space weather, as I said, that when, before an earthquake, as two big seismic plates start building pressure, there's a lot of, there's a lot of metal in those plates. And what it does is it induces a charge. Yes. And it is coupled from the lower atmosphere all the way up to the top of the atmosphere. And you can take space weather measurements of what they call total electron count. And

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  before an earth, a big earthquake, like the Kobe or the Japanese earthquake, what was it called? Fukushima? Tohoku. Yeah, no, Tohoku, I think it was Tohoku. Oh, yeah. That giant signature in the ionosphere right before that. In fact, this company, they're called Precursor SPC. Yes. They, they, three, four earthquakes in 2024, all above 7.0 magnitude, they predicted between three and four days in advance by just looking at space weather signatures. So this, and so I've been trying to get the US Geological Survey to take interest and actually maybe do earthquake early warning. They refuse to look at it. What?

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's, earthquakes kill as many people and cause as much damage as a world war. But they're the typical bureaucrats. All they are is seismologists, and that's the only way they've known how to study earthquakes. They refuse to look at a nourishment system approach, which is what meteorologists have done for several decades. We started to couple the ocean and the atmosphere and the land and the ice caps, and that produces a better predictive model. But no, these bureaucrats are just, oh, no, we're gonna do it this way. Have you heard of this NASA physicist by the name of Friedman Freund? Let me get there. But ultimately, that's what I think dogs are tapping into. This, this electromagnetic potential that increases. And they have a, they have a, they're more

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  sensitive to it. Well, I think they have senses that.

• 2:11:50Speaker 03

  And whales migrate.

• 2:11:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:52Speaker 03

  And I think they are using the magnetic lines in the earth.

• 2:11:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  That's what is a hypothesis out there. So yeah, a lot of living things are more sensitive to parts of the earth system than we are by far.

• 2:12:03Danny Jones?

  I always think about like, what kind of things are existing around us right now that we have no idea are there? You know, like we didn't, if we didn't have the sense of smell.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  Wifi.

• 2:12:12Danny Jones?

  Right, wifi, yeah, perfect example. If we didn't have the, haven't evolved the sense of smell to detect things like prey, or you know, whether your building is on fire, or whatever it is.

• 2:12:26Danny Jones?

  We would never know if somebody, you know, farted next to you and you were sitting in somebody's fart, right? So how many other things are like that out there that we don't have the organs to detect?

• 2:12:36Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:12:37Danny Jones?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:12:39Speaker 03

  Like sharks, they do that, right? They have these, uh, what are they called? They're, they're, they're, there's a word, there's a name for them.

• 2:12:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:12:47Speaker 03

  After an Italian, like, like Lorenzini.

• 2:12:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I forget what it is.

• 2:12:52Speaker 03

  But they, they can detect electrical pulses in the water when an animal is.

• 2:12:55Danny Jones?

  That's why they say to punch it in the face if it gets, tries to attack you.

• 2:12:58Speaker 03

  They have all these senses up there.

• 2:12:59Danny Jones?

  And it screws up its whole.

• 2:13:00Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right. Yeah, they have that.

• 2:13:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  We don't.

• 2:13:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And I wonder like, what, what kind of fricking senses do other animals have that we don't? Like even dolphins, you know? John Lilly was doing that study on dolphins, uh, that was funded by NASA where he was like, uh, looking at their brains. He was trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins, like telepathically.

• 2:13:21Speaker 03

  Right, right. Yeah, that's interesting, because we know, we're, we're beginning to understand and I don't know if anybody on your show has talked about these telepathy tapes?

• 2:13:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:30Speaker 03

  Do you know what that?

• 2:13:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  And, uh, so why wouldn't other, other living things have the same ability to communicate like that? And in fact, how do they, this is interesting. If you look at how, how complex the social behaviors of a variety of animals are, and, and, and they don't talk. I mean, they may make calls, but, uh, like birds. But it's interesting how animals can, can communicate without a visible or oral even way of, I know whales vocalize, but, uh, it's, it's interesting. I think there's, there's something there too.

• 2:14:06Danny Jones?

  Yes, and I think it.

• 2:14:09Danny Jones?

  Is, I think humans possibly had a stronger connection to whatever that is, like in the past.

• 2:14:19Speaker 03

  That's what Giorgio Ani says. I told you that, that collective consciousness, psychokinesis.

• 2:14:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think this is kind of like a, uh, this is kind of, my thing, my thing about this is that I think before we had ubiquitous technology and the ability to offload our memory onto devices. And, you know, we're just constantly existing in this technological civilization. I think that we probably had to have had

• 2:14:52Danny Jones?

  a stronger antenna to connect to whatever that is, whatever telepathy is, whatever psychokinesis is. I feel like those abilities were stronger with us before we developed all this technology and that sort of ability has atrophied as technology has risen.

• 2:15:11Speaker 03

  I, I think you're right. I think people dependent upon that, certainly in the distant past. Uh, and there's a study out there somewhere. I think anybody who's a twin knows this. I've talked to twins. They sometimes can communicate with their sibling, their twin sibling without talking. And, and it's, it's hard, but I've had, I've heard this so often, it's not a, it's not a one-off.

• 2:15:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:15:35Speaker 03

  And, uh, and so there's something similar there that, uh, that we all maybe have that innate ability, but it's, yeah, it's atrophied and distracted from technology.

• 2:15:45Danny Jones?

  Going back to your earthquake, uh, what you were saying about the earthquakes, um, there's this guy named Friedman Freund. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's a NASA physicist.

• 2:15:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:15:53Danny Jones?

  And he did this talk, he's, he's done Ted Talks before and he's also had a conversation with Christopher Dunn, who's the guy who wrote the, uh, Giza Power Plant book and his new book's called The Tesla Connection.

• 2:16:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:03Danny Jones?

  So what Friedman Freund figured out, which I think is directly connected to what you were saying, is you can detect earthquakes using these things called earthquake lights. So what he's saying, what he's, what he's showing is like igneous, igneous rock deep beneath the earth, deep beneath the earth. Easy for you to say. When it rubs against each other, when those rocks grind under the, under the earth, like deep, deep in the earth, it creates, it, it sort of like creates this electron, these, these electrons.

• 2:16:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, same thing.

• 2:16:37Danny Jones?

  That light up and create these lights that shoot up out of the, out of the ground. And it, people mistake them for UFOs.

• 2:16:42Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:16:43Danny Jones?

  But it's like, if you can find images of earthquake lights, apparently it always happens in Marfa, Texas.

• 2:16:48Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 2:16:49Danny Jones?

  So Marfa, Texas is like synonymous, is like famous for having these earthquake lights.

• 2:16:53Speaker 03

  I've heard of the Marfa lights.

• 2:16:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  I didn't know that, that was due to seismic activity.

• 2:16:57Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:16:58Speaker 03

  Oh, it is?

• 2:16:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:17:01Danny Jones?

  According to Friedman Freund, and he did a, he did an experiment where they, they took granite, right? And they, they took it and they grinded it against each other and they smashed granite together and they were putting electrodes on either end of the granite rods and they were, they were measuring electrons.

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:17Danny Jones?

  It was creating electricity.

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  A current.

• 2:17:19Danny Jones?

  Electro current, yes.

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  That's the exact same thing. And he's talking about that location under the surface. So it's, it's a, it's throughout, it's, it's in the strata, up to the surface, up to the top of the atmosphere. So however you want to detect it.

• 2:17:32Danny Jones?

  It's crazy.

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  You can detect it, yeah. I mean, we're talking, we're talking tons of metals that are all pressuring together.

• 2:17:37Danny Jones?

  Look up Friedman Freund. Um, and then so, so Chris Dunn interviewed him for his book, uh, the Tesla, Giza, the Tesla Connection. And what Chris Dunn's new hypothesis is, is that, um, the Great Pyramid is on the Giza Plateau, which he believes is seismically active or whatever. He like, I guess there's a lot of igneous rock that moves around underneath the pyramids.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:17:58Danny Jones?

  And he thinks that it, that Great Pyramid is a solid state, these are just photos of him, Steve, um, a solid state electron harvester.

• 2:18:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:18:09Danny Jones?

  So he thinks.

• 2:18:10Speaker 03

  That's interesting.

• 2:18:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah. He thinks that all of the stones and all of the, all of the, um, the limestone and the granite is harvesting the electrons from deep underneath the earth.

• 2:18:19Speaker 03

  Channeling them.

• 2:18:20Danny Jones?

  Channeling them into that pyramid and using it.

• 2:18:23Speaker 03

  To do what?

• 2:18:24Danny Jones?

  To conduct electricity. He thinks it was like a, a free energy machine.

• 2:18:26Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:18:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:28Speaker 03

  That's a big, that's a big machine.

• 2:18:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  Have you been there?

• 2:18:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. I've never been there, no. I can't wait to go.

• 2:18:34Speaker 03

  That is a phenomenal experience. When you see something so massive and it's, yes. Yeah, that, that, that's, see, that is, makes a lot of sense. And the physics are pretty well proven. In fact, the, for this big, the space weather element of this phenomena, the Europeans, the European Space Agency did a study. They called it INSPIRE, and I forgot what the acronym stands for. But it was about these ionospheric precursors that are observable before earthquakes. So we have studies out there and then you've got our government that's just sitting on, you know what, rather than being innovative. It just, it really, again, people just not looking at things with clear eyes and taking some action on it.

• 2:19:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm. So back to this underwater stuff. If you were, if, if, uh, the leader of the free world was to go to you and say, "We need to figure out a way to ensure the survival of our species in the case of a thermonuclear war or a cosmic cataclysm, uh, and we need to do it underwater," or maybe not, maybe they don't even say that. Would you, would you think or suggest that underwater would be the best case scenario for something like that?

• 2:19:52Speaker 03

  It, it would be a, a top contender. I mean, underwater or under the land. And, and I don't know, it, there's, um, it could be either, but we'd have to, we couldn't live in the surface because of the radiation. So we'd have to find a way, and I think the water's a good buffer for that.

• 2:20:08Danny Jones?

  It would be a much easier underground, right?

• 2:20:11Speaker 03

  I don't know about that. Uh, I guess, depending on, yeah, very deep in the ocean's hard to get to. But interestingly, I'm working with a company called DEEP that is building undersea habitats. And so this is, this is not just a theoretical. They're building these mostly for tourism, diet tourism and recreation. But, uh, that might, this is something that can be done. We have the engineering behind it. People have proven it, funny thing about the space program. Uh, I got to. Meet Scott Carpenter, who was one of the Mercury astronauts. Huh. And he happens to be the only one that I know of that also was an aquanaut.

• 2:20:51Speaker 03

  So he lived in sea lab for a while off La Jolla, the La Jolla coastline in California and set some human undersea endurance record. But, and I asked him about that and I said, what do you, how do you compare space exploration and ocean exploration? And he, and he told me that they don't compare. Space is all glorious and shiny and it's very quick. You open a space mission in just a few days, but when you're underwater, it's cold and dark and everything breaks. And I laughed because he, he made it sound like space was a cakewalk and the ocean was, was the real challenge. Yeah. And, and what's funny about that is that if you remember Kennedy's speech at Rice, when he challenged America to go into space, he talked about, we do these things not because they're easy, but because they're hard.

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  So he was saying, space is hard, but we're gonna do it. And I got the astronauts telling me, yeah, but the ocean's a lot harder. However, I'm seeing a lot of ocean innovators like this deep company that's making it happen. Victor made it happen in his submersible. He dived all the five deep trenches. Right. And, and that was just extraordinary. Not like the Ocean Gate disaster and that, that submersible which collapsed because they didn't do the right engineering. In fact, Victor and I know two of the people that were on that sub. Really? Yeah, yeah. There was a Pierre Nargelet, Victor knows him well, I met him. And then there was, um, Hamish Harding, explorer, went into space with Victor.

• 2:22:18Speaker 03

  I met him at the explorers club and, and it was just so disappointing because we, Victor had warned them that engineering of that is not, is not proven. They never did a test in a tank like Victor did. There's only one tank in the world that can pressure depth to full ocean depth. Really? Yeah, it's in Russia, but Victor did it because he knew he had to do that to ensure he was safe to go down. So it's like a, it's like a big pool that they can like, they can increase the pressure? It's a tank, it's a tank. Yeah, it's all enclosed. They increase the pressure, they simulate seven miles down and they did it and they proved that the pressure hull of the submersible. Could withstand that pressure.

• 2:22:54Danny Jones?

  Do they do this with full-size, like, battle subs?

• 2:22:57Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know. I don't know. I think they...

• 2:22:59Danny Jones?

  They're small.

• 2:23:00Speaker 03

  Submarines, yeah. Submersibles that do that are smaller. Submarines don't go down more than a few hundred feet.

• 2:23:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:23:09Speaker 03

  No, no. They don't need...

• 2:23:10Danny Jones?

  What's the deepest a nuclear sub could go?

• 2:23:12Speaker 03

  Uh, it's classified, but it's several hundred feet.

• 2:23:15Danny Jones?

  Several hundred?

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  Several hundred feet. And ultimately, though, because that's all we really need to operate. Why would you go deeper when the targets you care about are no deeper than you are? There are other subs and ships.

• 2:23:28Danny Jones?

  We need to get windows on those subs, too, so they can see the UFOs flying around.

• 2:23:31Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:23:32Danny Jones?

  The USOs.

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something about that.

• 2:23:34Danny Jones?

  We need to, yeah. Or get some sort of technology where you can make the metal transparent or something, translucent.

• 2:23:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I, I want to. In fact, I've been, I know the science advisor to the president, Michael Kratzios, and I've asked him, and I'm gonna ask him again. Every year, the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the White House puts out an annual Research and Development Priorities memorandum. And I've seen it, I've contributed to it, I always put ocean things on it when I was at NOAA. But I've, I've asked him to start considering UAP and USO research. So that if he puts it in the memo, that means all the federal agencies that do stuff in either in the atmosphere or ocean have to start studying them. So if I were to get him to do that, that means NOAA would have, would start researching USOs. As well as ONI and my old organization, the Naval Oceanographic Office.

• 2:24:26Danny Jones?

  Do you think that there's actual, like, underwater bases that these crafts are going to?

• 2:24:33Speaker 03

  So I saw you had Richard Dolan on, who is a friend of mine, and I like him a great deal.

• 2:24:37Danny Jones?

  He's incredible.

• 2:24:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Danny Jones?

  He said there's like 600, like, witness accounts.

• 2:24:41Speaker 03

  Oh, I've, I've read through most of it.

• 2:24:44Danny Jones?

  The one from the 1700s, the ship?

• 2:24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:47Danny Jones?

  Was insane.

• 2:24:48Speaker 03

  I saw you talk to him about that.

• 2:24:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:50Speaker 03

  And, and, yes. So, well, I don't know. But we know they're, they're in the water a lot, and they come from the water, go into the water. We just saw the Omaha. Where do they go?

• 2:25:03Speaker 03

  They have to, they, so that if we know that, and by the way, we don't know much about the ocean. So if we're seeing them come from the ocean and go in and we only explore 10% of the ocean volume and 25% of the seafloor, there's a pretty good bet that more research into explore the ocean might teach us a whole lot more about USOs and UAP.

• 2:25:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And what would, where do you think if you were them would be the best place to hide your base?

• 2:25:31Speaker 03

  Well.

• 2:25:31Danny Jones?

  Antarctica?

• 2:25:32Speaker 03

  Well, all these places that people aren't. Yes, exactly.

• 2:25:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  But the weird thing is that this big hotspot is off SoCal. You might know that.

• 2:25:41Danny Jones?

  That is weird. Yeah. Like Catalina Island.

• 2:25:43Speaker 03

  Slightly populated. What's going on there? And in fact, I have a friend who is, I have a friend. One.

• 2:25:50Danny Jones?

  You too.

• 2:25:50Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. And he, actually, his daughter is going to the Naval Academy on the swim team with my daughter. And so we're proud of them. And he was a Naval Academy graduate in my wife's class and became an F-14 and F-18 pilot and just retired. And so credible guy and knows about military capabilities. And he's, his wife has seen them over to the Catalina Channel repeatedly in broad daylight.

• 2:26:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so there's, this is what's happened is so many people are coming to me, credible people, average citizens, former military personnel, all with their stories. And I've had dozens of this. So it's, it's happening more than you think.

• 2:26:31Danny Jones?

  So when you were in front of Congress and they were asking you all these questions and you were saying stuff like, yeah, I have this answer, but I can't tell you unless we're in a private setting or in a skiff or whatever, what do you know?

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  If I can't tell them, I wouldn't tell you. But it's really.

• 2:26:48Danny Jones?

  Do you like, like, can you, do you know shit that like? Can put all these questions to rest?

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  No. So, I wasn't involved with any UFO UAP programs. I was not read in.

• 2:27:02Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:27:03Speaker 03

  So, the reason I talk about this now is I had my eyewitness account of the Go Fast video and Ryan, and I had people supporting Ryan Squadron who was seeing these all the time. And here, I'm a Navy retired Admiral and people like Fravor and Alex Dietrich and Ryan are speaking out and this Petty Officer Alex Wiggins. And I just felt these courageous folks deserve top cover.

• 2:27:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  They deserve someone like me, retired Admiral, because no one else is. I don't know why, but to say this is credible. This is a real thing. It deserves attention and research.

• 2:27:35Danny Jones?

  So, the stuff that you were telling them, I guess I imagine that you did eventually tell them what they were asking you in a private setting. This stuff was secondhand accounts that were told, explained to you by other people?

• 2:27:47Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. And these are people I trust. In fact, as I told you, I knew people who touched the Legacy Program. I know them and many of them are out already. Eric Davis, Hal Pudoff, Joel, Joe, Jay Stratton was not in the Legacy Program, but he led the UAP Task Force. So, he's seen a ton of UAP information that's not been declassified. And I trust him. Lou Elizondo, I trust him too. So, these have all been in the mix, Carl Nell. And we're all saying the same thing. There's a lot of information that's being withheld from the public. Some of it should be released and the full story.

• 2:28:24Danny Jones?

  And what's stopping, what's stopping all this from being released? Like what?

• 2:28:28Speaker 03

  It's the classification issue is we're too afraid.

• 2:28:31Danny Jones?

  What are people scared of?

• 2:28:32Speaker 03

  Well, it's the government not really thinking it's good policy to say we can't protect our citizens, our airspace, our water space. That's a tough one to overcome.

• 2:28:43Danny Jones?

  Sure, I understand that.

• 2:28:44Speaker 03

  And I'm not sure how they resolve that myself. Again, I'm here from the standpoint that the American people, we're government, by the people, for the people, that they deserve to know the nature of reality. The government knows it. They should disclose some of that to our taxpayers.

• 2:29:06Danny Jones?

  And what is to stop like any of these people who have this top secret information like from just coming out and saying it like other than losing your career.

• 2:29:15Speaker 03

  Jail jail time.

• 2:29:16Danny Jones?

  You could go to jail.

• 2:29:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. These is all. These are all.

• 2:29:19Danny Jones?

  But wouldn't that just confirm it? If you came out, if I came out tomorrow and I was part of some like deep, deep access program.

• 2:29:24Speaker 03

  What we're talking about is, and I'm, I've signed these myself. You get read into a program and it's, and you have a non-disclosure form that says, I acknowledge that if I divulge any of the information in this program and it's a prerequisite before getting into the program. So you might not even know you're getting read into a UAP program. It might be, hey, you're a, we think you, we want to have you know about this because of your responsibilities and we think you have a need to know. So first, before you get read in, sign this and says, I won't do anything or I can go to jail.

• 2:29:54Danny Jones?

  Sure. Okay.

• 2:29:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. And actually, yes.

• 2:29:56Danny Jones?

  But the problem with that is in public, in the public's eye, if you do come out and say some crazy stuff that this is, I'm claiming this is true. And then you get thrown into jail. People are going to say, oh, my God, it's true. They threw him in jail.

• 2:30:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:07Danny Jones?

  If it was bullshit, why would they put him in jail?

• 2:30:09Speaker 03

  Well, so the good thing here is these, these, I don't think, I don't know if they've been passed yet, but maybe there are, I know that Burchett has introduced some whistleblower protection legislation to get around that.

• 2:30:22Danny Jones?

  And I've heard some of that's been subverted too.

• 2:30:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:24Danny Jones?

  Like some of the whistleblower protection groups or fundraisers that people have been putting together are just like, like intelligence operations, just to like, as like a, like a fly trap for whistleblowers.

• 2:30:34Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure of it. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:30:38Danny Jones?

  Crazy, man.

• 2:30:39Speaker 03

  I know it. It's a never dull moment. With UFOs.

• 2:30:44Danny Jones?

  You have a hard out. You got to be out of here by four?

• 2:30:46Speaker 03

  I do.

• 2:30:46Danny Jones?

  Okay, cool. It's 3:55. Tell people about your, you have a book and some other stuff that you can.

• 2:30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I, here. So.

• 2:30:56Speaker 03

  A lot of what I'm doing now, I don't know if you can show this or not, I got my book cover finally approved.

• 2:31:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, beautiful, hold that up like this.

• 2:31:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:04Danny Jones?

  A little bit higher, there you go. Holding Fast in Heavy Seas: Leadership for Turbulent Times.

• 2:31:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:31:11Danny Jones?

  Love it.

• 2:31:12Speaker 03

  Well, what happened is, as an agency leader, coming from the military, I had a lot of our scientists come up to me and say, hey, I have a tricky situation, you were a leader, I don't know a lot about leadership because I haven't been trained on it, what are your ideas, what are your thoughts on leadership? And this happened to me almost every day. And so what I did is I really just answered that question in my book, is I go through what I learned about leadership in the Navy, and that's what you do. I love the service because it's officers' lead, and that's their job, and you learn, many people learn how to do it well because they have great mentors, and I go through

• 2:31:52Speaker 03

  all the people that showed me the ropes on how to be an effective servant leader. And it's a good story, everyone wants to be a better leader, whether you're a dad or a business manager, it's about positively influencing people you care about.

• 2:32:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:32:09Speaker 03

  And so, then I go into this agency called NOAA, a science agency, and it was a challenging time, because, and I'm a fan of a lot of what President Trump is doing right now, but he's not an easy guy to work for, and inspire a federal workforce, you can see this right now, under, but I think I did that pretty well, because we succeeded on a lot of fronts. I talked about our partnership with Victor, and ocean mapping, and there were many others. And so, I just go through that in this book to talk about and teach how to lead during challenging situations, and it was a lot of fun, too. I had some great friends, and we did some fun things, and so there's a good amount of humor, because there's a sea story behind every...

• 2:32:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's amazing.

• 2:32:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:32:54Danny Jones?

  Is there gonna be, is it available on Amazon?

• 2:32:55Speaker 03

  There's fishing involved.

• 2:32:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 2:32:57Speaker 03

  And a lot of scuba diving.

• 2:32:58Danny Jones?

  I'm in.

• 2:32:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:33:00Danny Jones?

  I'm in. We'll link it all below.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  Great.

• 2:33:03Danny Jones?

  As well as social media, what are you on social media, your name?

• 2:33:05Speaker 03

  Oh, LinkedIn, I think it's Tim Gallaudet, Facebook, Insta, and X, but I'll have, and it's Kohler Books is publishing it. I'm just waiting for the DOD Pentagon review, the security review, that everybody else has to go through, like Lou and Jay, and when that's done, it's gonna go, hopefully in the fall.

• 2:33:24Danny Jones?

  Fantastic, man. Thanks again for your time, man. This has been fascinating. Oh, look, he finally found it, Steve. You're the man.

• 2:33:30Speaker 03

  It only took an hour. No, I had to dig through my email. Which one is he?

• 2:33:34Danny Jones?

  So, the very back, that's Jolly West.

• 2:33:37Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:33:38Danny Jones?

  Yep, he was the guy who was the head guy of MKUltra. And the guy who basically drove Jack Ruby insane after he killed Oswald.

• 2:33:49Speaker 03

  So, a lot of unethical.

• 2:33:50Danny Jones?

  What was he doing on the set of 2001 Space Odyssey? That's all I want to know.

• 2:33:53Speaker 03

  That's right. Interesting. I learned a lot.

• 2:33:56Danny Jones?

  Thanks, man. It was a great meeting.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  Thank you, Danny.

• 2:33:57Danny Jones?

  Hey, it's 3:59. Do you have five minutes to answer some Patreon questions?

• 2:34:01Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 2:34:02Danny Jones?

  Alright, so, alright, that's the end of the podcast. Good night, everybody.

• 2:34:05Speaker 06

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