#771 The Future Of Free Speech In America w/ Jason Miller

Jason Miller is the CEO of GETTR, a new social media site focused on free speech. In this conversation, we discuss social media platforms, free speech, censorship, Joe Rogan joining GETTR, and Jason's time working with President Trump. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= Compass Mining is the world's first online marketplace for bitcoin mining hardware and hosting. Compass was founded with the goal of making it easy for everyone to mine bitcoin. Visit compassmining.io to start mining bitcoin today! ======================= Crypto is all about democratization and freedom of choice. But many companies limit their offerings to centralized trading products. The crypto companies leading the pack in terms of innovation are those that extend access to the industry's cutting-edge products and services — bridging CeFi and DeFi. If you're searching for a platform that reflects crypto's promise of a more open and less restrictive financial future, look no further than OKEx. On OKEx now you can easily switch over to the new DeFi mode, connect OKEx's bespoke Web 3.0 wallet via browser extension and start exploring opportunities at the bleeding edge of crypto. From the DeFi Dashboard, you can monitor your portfolio of self-custodied assets across a range of blockchain networks and generate passive income from yield-farming with top DeFi protocols. In the NFT Marketplace, you can participate in exclusive drops and trade nonfungible tokens without secondary market fees. Meanwhile, the GameFi section is your portal to the latest and greatest in play-to-earn and blockchain gaming. Venture to the forefront of crypto innovation and connect with OKEx DeFi today. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Jason Miller is the CEO of Getter. It's a brand new social media platform that is focused on free speech. In this conversation, we discuss everything from social media platforms, free speech, censorship, his campaigning with President Trump, and also how ideas propagate throughout society. I really enjoyed this conversation with Jason, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is LMAX Digital, the number one institutional crypto exchange. They offer clients the deepest pool of crypto liquidity on the planet, underscored by 100% uptime

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:27Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Start mining your own Bitcoin today by visiting compassmining.io. Again, compassmining.io. Go check them out and let me know what you think. Last but not least are my friends over at OKX. Crypto is all about democratization and freedom of choice, but many companies limit their offerings to centralized trading products. The crypto companies leading the pack in terms of innovation are those that extend access to the industry's cutting-edge products and services, bridging C-Fi and DeFi. If you're searching for a platform that reflects crypto's promise, but more open and less restrictive financial future, look no further than OKX. On OKX now, you can easily switch over to the new DeFi mode. Connect OKX's bespoke Web3 wallet via browser extension and start exploring opportunities

• 2:51Anthony Pompliano?

  at the bleeding edge of crypto. From the DeFi dashboard, you can monitor your portfolio of self-custodied assets across a range of blockchain networks and generate passive income from yield farming with top DeFi protocols. In the NFT marketplace, you can participate in exclusive drops and trade non-fungible tokens without secondary market fees. Meanwhile, the GameFi section is your portal to the latest and greatest in play-to-earn and blockchain gaming. Venture to the forefront of crypto innovation and connect with OKX DeFi today. Again, go check them out at OKX. That's where you can find OKX DeFi. All right, let's get into this episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:51Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, we got a whole bunch of stuff to go over here. We've got Jason joining us now, who is the CEO of Getter. Jason, how are you?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Fellas could be with you. Thanks for having me.

• 4:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Dude, I'm super excited to talk to you. I have a million questions. I have no clue if we're going to get through all of them. But first, let's start with your time in the White House. Just so everyone understands, you were an advisor to President Trump. Explain what the hell does that mean in terms of how you work with a president like that?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I'll give it a little bit. So I never went into the White House, but I was a senior advisor for President Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 races. Now, my brother from a different mother, Steve Miller, was in the White House, but I'm the much better looking of the Millers who worked for President Trump. But so as a senior advisor, here's the thing with President Trump, he's completely different than anyone who's a traditional politician. Traditional politician, you write things, you put them in, put the words in front of them, you hope they'll say what you write out and try to focus on a particular message with. President Trump, I kind of liken it to, say, the bowling alley, when you take your kids, the bowling alley and kind of the guardrails pop up on the side. And your job is just essentially kind of go down, he's going to do whatever he wants to do, but if you can help him amplify his voice,

• 5:05Speaker 02

  you can come up with additional tactics or ideas, then you can work well with them, but you don't go and put things in front of him and say, please read this because he has his own script.

• 5:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so when you talk about advising his communication strategy, is this just speeches or are you also like advising him on what to tweet?

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Great question. So in the 2016 campaign, usually we'd start off every day with the 6:30 call, just President Trump and myself. So if you can imagine, first of all, talking to anybody at 6:30 in the morning is a little bit, a little bit unique. But then someone who's the, at that point, then the Republican nominee for president, or is it going to 2020, the president of the United States to call up and talk through what's in the paper, what's on TV, what his schedule looks like, what messages we want to be driving, what things we want to be putting on Twitter. Those are all things that we were, conversations we're having at 6:30 in the morning during those years. And so I built a pretty strong relationship with him over that stretch.

• 5:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so when you see some of the tweets go out, are you like texting him and being like, dude, what are you doing? Delete that tweet, like, don't say that. Or is it just like, okay, once something goes out, whether it's something he says in a speech or he tweets, then you're like, okay, we're just going to deal with what to do next after this?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  So great question, because again, a typical politician might call up and say, hey, you got to go and remove that. Can you do something slightly different? The one thing in politics is as soon as you become the no man, the person who just says no to everything, you pretty quickly get tuned out. What I always viewed my job is Here, Mr. President, here's how you can say something smarter or more efficiently, or maybe alienate fewer people in the particular post, or sometimes, look, we might say, let's go in and pick a fight with somebody today to go and create the news. So sometimes I'd give him ideas for specific tweets, and look, sometimes he'd go and do it. Sometimes he'd say, hey, Jason, I like you, but your idea sucks. And so that's the thing with working with him is he doesn't pull any punches. If he likes your idea, go run with it. If he doesn't like the idea, he'll tell you.

• 6:57Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, I got a couple more questions about your time with Trump, and then we'll get to the free speech stuff, because I think it's important to understand kind of from a perspective standpoint where people come from. When you just mentioned, sometimes it's very much defensive, right? So, hey, we're responding to something, we're reactionary. Other times it's offensive, and hey, let's go pick a fight with somebody. What's an example of where you guys were like, let's go pick a fight with somebody? And why did you want to pick a fight with that person? Or like, how did you execute on it?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, great question. So sometimes on that, it might be because we want to highlight a particular message. So in the 2016 campaign, of course, picking a fight with Hillary Clinton, who's the Democratic opponent, that was an easy one. Say sometimes if we knew that we were going to have a bad news cycle, maybe in 2020, there's some easy left of center targets, the Squad, AOC, Ilhan Omar. They're easy targets. Again, picking a fight with Hillary Clinton is easy. The left of center media, maybe MSNBC, CNN. So it's sometimes you want to amplify what you're already planning on doing that day. Sometimes you want to work on a bit of a diversionary effort. But all kind of works into, in a campaign sense, how do you ultimately go and bring people on your side? How do you motivate your base and demotivate their base? Or sometimes, for example, say with Joe Biden.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Look, Joe Biden had some serious issues with the African American community that we were highlighting in 2020. And so we might go and pick certain fights in 2020 that would shore up President Trump's support. He got the highest amount of African American support of any Republican since 1972. Do things that will go and draw attention to some of the terrible comments Biden made in the past, or things like that. So all kind of goes to, how do you build? In a campaign, it's all about how do you build and get to that point by election day where you get more votes than the other person?

• 8:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's all like a kind of psychological warfare and very much like intellectual warfare. It's very interesting. I heard a, I think I Read it actually in maybe Scott Adams book about kind of marketing and persuasion and all this stuff that Trump actually came up with make America great again like he just came up with that off the top of his head. When you see things like if I remember some of the attacks he had on other Republicans, I think he said low energy Jeb. I think he said little Marco like there's a bunch of these kind of nicknames that he came up with people. Did he come up with those himself? Are you coming up with those? Like it's such a unique strategy to basically resort to name calling, but it seems to be very effective for him. How did those come about?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  So almost all of those are his picks. There were a couple that I came up with or gave ideas. I'll tell you one of the funniest moments, I think it was maybe in 2018, I was driving my now 13 year old daughter to a softball tournament and I get a phone call that pops up on the the plugin for the car and an answer and it's a Jason that this is the White House, the President of the United States is calling for you. And so I told my wife and my daughter who were in the car is like, shh, quiet, quiet. You know, the president's calling. And essentially the question that came to me was needed a nickname for a particular member of Congress. And I was asked to think of a couple of different names, ended up not using the particular name. But so sometimes it might be a little more humorous on that. But the one thing that I think a lot of times people look and it

• 9:57Speaker 02

  might do a bit of over generalization, say, okay, he just wants to go and make fun of the person. But there was, let me take you to 2016. So I came up with a nickname for Tim Kaine. People forget Tim Kaine was Hillary's running mate. I came up the nickname, thought it was pretty good. He was in the air, so I didn't run it by him before I announced it. He calls me next morning goes, hey, saw that little nickname he came up for Tim Kaine. Not bad, not as good as one that I would have picked, but not bad. But he goes, I don't want to use it. He goes, the reason why is Hillary is the single most disliked candidate in American political history. Why would we draw any attention to her running mate? Let's keep all the focus on Hillary. He goes, besides, crooked is the best political nickname probably in history. So let's stick with that. And then he

• 10:40Speaker 02

  said, but hey, I'll tell you what, if you ever run for president, you can pick the nicknames. In the meantime, let me do it.

• 10:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Man, I wish, that'd be the most amazing job ever. I don't want to be involved in politics whatsoever, other than I want to be the guy who gives people nicknames. Like, I'm both sides of the aisle. If you need a nickname, call me and I'll come up with some crazy names for you. All right, now, the other thing that I think is very interesting is the use of Twitter itself, uh, from a communication standpoint, how much of that was like an intentional strategy versus just like, that was a way to talk directly to people and, uh, the president, uh, either in the campaign or once he was president, realized that like, nobody could twist his words and he didn't even have to ask for permission to anyone, he could just go straight to people and it became a communication strategy more so than it being intentional, just like, kind of morphed into it.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  I think more of the latter. I think it's something that, that kind of grew to become the strategy that was kind of his style, his tactics. What I always tell people is President Trump's superpower, so to speak, was that he could go around the media, he could go directly to people. And, and because of that, he largely snuck up on, uh, the, whether it be the media elites, whether it be the, um, uh, you know, the, the professional prognosticators in 2016, they were ready for him in 2020. Some of the rules of the game were changed, uh, the different warning labels to be put on things, the, uh, being put on timeout, whether it be on Twitter, Facebook, some of these other, um, restrictions that were put out there. Also, we saw a lot of his supporters, uh, being shadow banned, uh, algorithmed, out of existence, things like that. Really, that's part of the reason, um, why we started Getter, but the buildup to it,

• 12:09Speaker 02

  what I would say is probably the single most egregious example of, uh, political discrimination or censorship in US history was how the media titans came together, worked with Big Tech to shut down the Hunter Biden laptop scandal. And that's something where I think one out of every six, uh, Biden voters after the election when surveyed said they would have considered changing their vote if they'd known about that. But anyways, uh, but with President Trump, though, that was really his superpower going around the media and directly to people. And quite frankly, we've seen some other politicians around the world, whether it be Prime Minister Modi in India, President Bolsonaro in Brazil, use similar tactics, and those folks have been very successful. But again, to keep point, they were ready for him in 2020, so they changed the rules and it wasn't as effective. I wish we had a platform,

• 12:52Speaker 02

  whether it be my platform or someone else's, in existence for 2020, he may have pulled off that victory.

• 12:57Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Now, one of the things is, we don't know each other super well, so I'll give you a little context here. I hate the extremes of all political parties. I'm more of kind of a centrist in my views. And so, one of my challenges to people is when they come on, if they lean very heavy left or right, is to do two things. One, say something good about the other side, and then also critique something about their side. I don't want to classify you on any one side, but I think that you obviously lean a little bit more Republican than not. And so, is there something that, whether it's the current administration, the Democrats, etc., something that you're like, you know what, whether it's a communication strategy, something that they've done, etc., you're like, you know what, I really think that that was a unique thing, or a positive thing that they did?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, great questions. I think about the Democrats. I have to think about that one for a moment. I think about Nancy Pelosi, I would say, does a much better job than many Republican leaders of keeping her folks in line. And now, that's a tough thing. Again, I'm a free speech guy, and so I realize I might be getting a little bit conflicting messages, but being a leader on Capitol Hill is to say it's herding cats is probably an understatement, but Pelosi does it with an iron fist. And if you cross her, if you mess with her, I know as a Republican, I like to dunk on Pelosi and talk about her ice cream, or her appointments at the hair salon, things like that. But, boy, if you get on Pelosi's bad side, she will crush you, and you're never going to see the lie today ever again. So, I got to give Pelosi credit for being able to herd her cats. I

• 14:26Speaker 02

  would say on the Republican side, I think way too often where we get things wrong, this is part of the reason why I think President Trump cut through, is we always seem like we're mad about things. And that's why it's like, when people ask me my ideology, where I come from, I'm a conservative, but I'm not angry about it. And that's my perspective, because I do obviously have some ideological ideals and frameworks that you work within. But if you're always against something, and you never lay out what you're for, that's a surefire way to lose.

• 14:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Now, talk to me about, you said that the rules changed in the 2020 election. I think what you're specifically referencing, and I want to put words in your mouth, is this idea that the social media platforms kind of woke up to a lot of the political stuff that was happening. And I'm of the belief that once somebody figures something out, both sides use it, right? So like Facebook ads kind of were not really used in political elections. All of a sudden, one side figured it out, then everyone started to use the Facebook ads and targeting and all of that. And it seems like going into the 2020 election, there was tons and tons of people trying to figure out, how the hell do we use social media to talk directly to people and basically win the vote, right? And so, when you started to see things around, whether it was labeling, when it was kind of the arbiters of truth,

• 15:37Anthony Pompliano?

  when it was actual kind of, you know, kind of distribution or de-ranking in the algorithm, just talk to me about what you guys were seeing and how that was changing the landscape from a communication strategy standpoint for a politician?

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. So in 2016, and keep in mind that the campaigns were completely different. The fact that 2016, we're kind of playing with house money. People didn't really expect us to win. So we could come up with unconventional tactics. We didn't come up with crazy ideas, you know, bringing the former Clinton accusers to a debate. If you had brought that up in context of any other political scenario, people would have said, you're going to be blackballed for politics. This is the stupidest idea. With President Trump, we just called it Wednesday. It was, you know, it was just a kind of par for the course. But what we saw in 2020, of course, to be an incumbent president, everything from the decorum to the power to the, what people expect from you, the responsibility, I would say. But what we saw is, and it really started with COVID, coming on in the scene early 2020,

• 16:36Speaker 02

  when the big tech platforms, the Twitters, the Facebooks, the Youtubes, even the Googles would be punishing people for saying that the virus came from a lab in Wuhan. Now, I personally don't think that there were scientists there creating the virus, but I do think that they were doing experiments, let's say, gain-of-function, and some worker inappropriately traped it out, and that's how it got out, because we know they were doing gain-of-function research anyways. But the point being is, we saw- People being shadow banned and put in digital jail for saying that the virus came from a lab in Wuhan. Then we saw people being criticized or put into a digital jail for criticizing Dr. Fauci.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Then, of course, what we saw happen were literally Twitter and Facebook and YouTube would not allow anyone to talk about the New York Post reporting on the Hunter Biden laptop. That's changing the rules of the game. I'm fine if another big tech platform has an ideological worldview. Again, I'm a conservative Republican. I'm not going to pretend to be somebody that I'm not. But when it comes to free speech, whether someone's on my side or against me, I think people should have that right. As long as you're abiding by that terms of service and you're not, say, pushing hate imagery or using racial or religious epithets or threatening illegal behavior. I think you should largely be able to say what you want if it fits within those parameters. But what we saw that was unique is the political discrimination in 2020, and I think that's wrong.

• 17:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so one of the things that I want to kind of get into some of the free speech, the censorship and the social media platforms is I think most people think of when they hear censorship of social media platforms, you're on the platform, you're off the platform. We've obviously seen Twitter now two sitting US politicians they've taken off the platform. And most people think of that as censorship. But one of the key pieces that I think has sort of entered the conversation is, well, maybe it's not just is somebody on a platform or are they not? It's also things around shadow banning or not giving them as much distribution in a news feed, etc. And this isn't just a political conversation. I think this also happens for certain businesses, certain celebrities. Like you see a lot of people kind of talking about this. And so when you all think about kind of free speech or censorship or some of these ideas,

• 18:41Anthony Pompliano?

  how much of that plays into just like the black and white, you're on a platform, you're not on a platform? Versus the more nuanced, like, do you get enough distribution? Is distribution evenly applied? Like, how does that play into the conversation?

• 18:53Speaker 02

  It plays in, I think you make a really astute point here is that what people want is to be treated fairly, regardless of what side of the spectrum that they're on. And one of the things I do sometimes is even though a lot of the passion right now of the free speech debate is in the center right space. Just a few years ago, it's in the center left, but now it's more in the center right. were coming on getter and saying that you're number one in a very New York kind of way. Uh, in a way that Danny Boy Hustle Hard might say if you gave him a too small of a tip or something of that nature. Uh, frequently I'll repost and say, see, we have people from uh, all across the ideological spectrum on here. Um, but I think that what people want is be treated the same. So real quick thing, don't want to get kind of nerd out on this too much.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  There's a thing called section two thirty, which came out back in the nineties when we had blogs, remember the AOL and the dial up internet and all that nonsense. Back in the early days, the annoying uh, sound in section two thirty allows essentially platforms that are just places where people can go and post their information to uh, not be held liable. As long as obviously they're taking down illegal content, things like that, but where people or platforms are not going to be held liable for what users go and post because they want this digital town square. The, the spirit behind that is to make sure that, that we keep this digital town square, but then obviously it's not going to be that held, you know, liable or um, say otherwise people just close up shop and say this isn't worth it.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  What we've just seen over the last few years, really last four or five years is for a lot of these big tech companies to say, well, wait a minute. I like this person's free speech, but I don't like that person's free speech. And I think that the, the rules regards to what side you're on have to be applied the same.

• 20:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Tell us about getter and kind of what is the idea in terms of what you guys are building compared to some of these other social platforms?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So getter free speech platform, we launched on July fourth of this year, we're already up over three million users. And in fact, I would say just over the past twenty four hours, we're up over a quarter million new users. We had a hundred and seventy one thousand uh, new users yesterday when Joe Rogan announced that he was coming on getter. We are already up over seventy five thousand users today, probably hit over a hundred. So we're about three point one, three point, I think we're about three point two million users, uh, up over ten million downloads, but about three point two. We're the all in one free speech platform. What that means is we want to be the place where if you support free speech, if you oppose cancel culture, we think you'd be a great getter user. I'd say right now we're largely a marketplace competitor to Twitter and Facebook when we had now uh, launched.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Early February Vision, which will be our short video format. They'll make us more of a competitor with TikTok and Instagram reels. And then a little bit more to your speed and this is where I hope I can come back on the show. We're going to be launching Getter Pay right around 4th of July or one year anniversary. Where it's not just going to be a payment platform. We're going to have a two coin ecosystem with a stable coin, also a fluctuating coin. Uh, as well as our own getter marketplace. So where we're starting to go into the DeFi side of things, the peer-to-peer lending. Uh, this is going to become really exciting because there are tens of millions of people in the US who aren't able to participate in the digital economy right now, whether because they're not marketed to or they don't trust it, hundreds of millions of people around the world. We're going to help try to bring this to them.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  So I think the next time that we talk, we start getting the details on the blockchain, the crypto side. Uh, I think you guys are really going to be excited to get into weeds on it.

• 22:14Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, my last question, and then I'll, I'll let my brothers ask a couple of questions here is, uh, how the hell do I get kicked off Getter? Is it just like, I could say whatever I want, no matter if I, uh, you know, threaten to kill somebody? Or, or like, are there rules? Or is it just literally that you could say whatever you want, it's a free for all? Like, how do you guys think about designing the space? Uh, I'm assuming that you can't just say anything, but like, where is the line? And like, uh, I go to the extreme example, just like, how does somebody get kicked off? Uh, in terms of compared to, you know, maybe, uh, Twitter or somebody else?

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Great question, and I'll tell you the two things I probably spend the most amount of my time on are on moderation and on security, because those are the two things that can get you deplatformed, get you essentially, um, uh, kicked off of, uh, whether it be the Apple iOS store with that closed environment. They decide what apps live and what apps die. So obviously we have to play within their rules. But also their thing too is it's not just about trying to paint within the, uh, the, the bright lines when it comes to working well with an apple, but it's also you want this to be an inviting platform. If people think that they're going to get doxxed, or if they're going to get harassed, or if people are going to threaten illegal activity, or suggest self-harm or use racial or religious epithets. Those are all things that are post pornography.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Uh, look, there are plenty of places you can go if, if you want to get porn, plenty of places you can go to. It's something that we don't have on Getter because just our community doesn't want to have it. So we have terms of service and things might go for maybe a couple hours of a timeout to if you have some say you're threatening to to kill somebody and it's a and it's not something that say, you know, repeating what a politician said or repeating something in in jest. If it's a serious threat, then you can be banned or permanently kicked off. We're not going to mess around with it. Here's the thing, though, fellas, is that we're not going to get it right every single time. We're going to get some things wrong. We reversed a couple of things or revised a couple of policies. So we realized maybe we got something inaccurate, but our goal is to try to let people express themselves politically.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  And our pledge, since we kind of have the ideological ideological North Star, is that no one's ever going to be shadow banned or censored or deplatformed or kicked off for expressing themselves politically. If they do express themselves politically, this is a safe space for you.

• 24:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe, John, what questions you guys got?

• 24:22Speaker 03

  Hey, Jason, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Hey, thank you.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Of course. So my question would just be around like censorship and decentralization has been a hot topic, obviously, and you guys are building a business off the back of those things. But when it comes to content specifically, Web three is enabling people to own their content is their their pitch. Do people on Getter own their own content that they produce on the website? Or do you guys own it? And if you do, is that going to change?

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Great question. So when it comes to your actual your intellectual property, you own that. And in fact, here's the thing. You actually own your own content when it comes to what's on Twitter and Facebook and these other platforms as well. Because otherwise, if the platforms owned it, if say if Instagram owned it, then they would be held liable for everything that's going on. So one of the really cool features we have with Getter, and as you can see, not so subtly behind me, are the platform name spelled out. When you sign up for an account, you can import all of your tweets. So then you populate your timeline in Getter with all of your your tweets from the past. So people then see who you are. It's a way for you to back things up. If you have artwork, if you have recordings, imagery, things like that, memes that you want to go and have backed up.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  We allowed it. And again, that's because it's your property. As we start going into, we're going to have some pretty cool things coming when we do start getting the Getter pay side of things. Now we start working on some more of that that peer to peer lending, also some things, most likely the NFT space. There'll be some some other aspects of the decentralization, but fundamentally, your intellectual property is your intellectual property.

• 25:53Anthony Pompliano?

  John, what you got? Jason, how do you think about censorship that is happening on platforms?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Today, such as Twitter and everything like that. How do you go about thinking about it? Well, things I think in particular with with Twitter. First, I'll have to say thank you. I know that might sound terrible for for free speech, but it's great for business. I mean, the fact of the matter is that if if Dr. Robert Malone is one of the that he helped develop the mRNA vaccine and he was recently kicked off of Twitter this last week, or Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia, who was kicked off of Twitter just yesterday, if they hadn't been kicked off, I don't know if Joe Rogan makes the jump to come on board. And then next thing you know, we're a quarter million additional users later. So I think with the new CEO, Mr. Agarwal, who's come on board with Twitter, he's taken even further leftward lurch than where Jack Dorsey was. So I think it's it's

• 26:42Speaker 02

  terrible for the the whole aspect of free speech. I think it's great for Getter. But but I think there's a broader concern here is that I think by Twitter and some of these other platforms, taking such strident moves where they're picking winners and losers in the in the political discrimination space, in the political free speech space, I think what's doing is pushing society apart. Look, this this is a bit of a cap'n obvious. I think as a country, we've become entirely too divided. People are retreating into their ideological corners. People watch either right of center TV or left of center TV. They'll listen to right of center musicians or left of center musicians. Politics doesn't have to be everything. In fact, one of the coolest people

• 27:23Speaker 02

  that I like on our platform is Enes Kanter Freedom from the Boston Celtics. I couldn't tell you what Enes's domestic politics are. I couldn't tell you if he votes Republican or Democrat or anything, but I know that he's outspoken opponent of slave labor in China. He's criticized LeBron James, a number of other folks for kowtowing to the CCP. And he's someone who has embraced his free speech space. Also, he's a pretty good athlete. Celts aren't using him near as well as they should. They really struggled against the Magic yesterday, if you caught any of that game. But Enes Kanter, someone who great, he's someone who just embraces free speech. I'm glad that he's now a US citizen. I think that's a really cool story for him to tell. So it's not always just about politics, but we keep pushing people to the corners. Society is only going to become more divided.

• 28:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Jason, when you think about somewhere like China, obviously, we've seen platforms like Twitter, Facebook, etc. all kind of get kicked out of the country. Some of them have tried to get back in. Some of them frankly just threw up their hands and said, hey, you know, we're not interested in it. But if you compare to something like maybe the movie industry, we obviously know that a lot of the Hollywood organizations, that is a lifeblood of revenue for them now. It's getting into China and getting that distribution there. How do you think about it from a social media platform? Are most Western-based social media platforms just going to have to resign the fact that, hey, we're never going to get in? And that's okay? We're going to build a business without having to get to the, you know, one-plus-billion people there in China? Or do you think that there are going to be kind of capitulation from some of these platforms and they say, yep, tell us the rules and like we'll create

• 28:53Anthony Pompliano?

  like a China version, if you will, of the existing social media platforms? And that's where you think you guys kind of have a wedge into the market? Like, how do you think about China and these existing platforms?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Great question. With regard to China specifically, and we spend a lot of our time criticizing the CCP in China and trying to find a way to, I mean, even the logo that you see back behind me, the torch there is about bringing freedom to places where it doesn't exist, to bring lightness to darkness. That's really kind of our whole mission. When it comes to the getting into China, though, that decision really has already been made. The CCP has said, you're not going to be allowed. We usually will track, because we don't just track by country, but also by language usage. We probably have about 4%, maybe 5% daily use in Mandarin. So we watch that pretty closely, and that's because people use VPNs or other aspects to try to use Getter. But that's, you can't get Getter in China.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  You can't get Twitter. Remember, these other social media platforms are just, I mean, even Twitter, as woke as they are, they're not allowed in China, because again, that would be spreading some aspect of democratic thought. Where I do think we're seeing the broader decoupling, though, is when it comes to technology, whether you think about corners or capitulation that someone, whether it be an Apple maker, someone who's a semiconductor producer, or maybe the robotics industry, or car dealers, for perfect example, where China essentially says you have to get a local joint venture Partner to be able to produce anything. So what happens? You partner up with a local firm. They spend a couple of years learning your product and then they just take all the technology. And literally you find your door kicked in. They steal a couple of robot arms and then

• 30:30Speaker 02

  the the shop right next door starts building the exact same thing and it's a knockoff. I do think that we're heading towards a larger decoupling between the the two countries. A lot of businesses on Wall Street look and say, wait a minute, there are 1.4 billion people in China. Largest growing middle class in the entire world. We want access to that capital. Uh, but here's the reality, it's the CCP, it's all about control. It's all about power. Uh, I think they're going to further move to to decouple from their their side as well.

• 30:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then one other thing that I've seen a couple of people mention as I was kind of Googling around this morning before before you came on is Miles Quoak, who was one of the founders or I don't know if he's still involved or not or whatever. Um, and I don't know a ton about this, so spare, you know, bear with me for a second if I enter into kind of out of my depth. But I saw an interview with him and Kyle Bass on the Real Vision platform. And I was struck, I think, just by a whole bunch of different things they talked about and kind of the worldview. And and it just was very different than a lot of the information that I'd seen before. I guess one is just like, is he still involved or was he a founder? Do I have that right?

• 31:38Anthony Pompliano?

  And then two is like, how do you think about folks who I think have leveraged American free speech? To get a message out there that obviously other people in the world don't want out there. Like, how do you just think about, you know, the experience of having been able to leverage free speech for benefit? Uh, as an important skill set or experience to build something like this? Versus could just somebody in America who's grown up with, you know, free speech their entire life? Uh, and almost thinks of it as the default, is it possible for them to build a free speech platform without having to actually have seen something else?

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, a really good point. I'll take those in reverse order because I think that one of the cool things for me, look, I've largely worked most of my last 20, 25 years in domestic politics and domestic corporate communications. It really just been over the last few years where I've worked more internationally and then of course with launching Getter, that were one of the things, look, the US is only about 35% of our user base. The other 65% is all around the world. I always thought that the free speech debate was largely, I looked at from a very myopic perspective of what's happening to us, what's happening to right of center political figures. But what I saw is this is happening all over the world. I think as Americans, we really take the First Amendment

• 32:49Speaker 02

  for granted. And I think that even on our worst day, that, okay, say Dr. Robert Malone, who I referenced a moment ago, he gets kicked off of Twitter, that that and that causes all sorts of headlines and explosions, things of that nature. But at the end of the day, does that ultimately, does that mean that your, your family is going to get thrown in jail? You're going to be discriminated against? It's terrible for free speech, but it's not a life threatening that change. In these other countries, you get on the wrong side, you speak out against the government, you take an unpopular position, you might find yourself beaten, thrown in jail. It's pretty scary. You guys may have seen the headline where I was detained in Brazil by a Supreme Court justice for three hours. It can be a big international story, but simply because I had

• 33:31Speaker 02

  visited with President Bolsonaro when I was down in Brazil, and I'm helping to bring a free speech platform. And one of his government opponents literally had me detained for three hours. And here I am, okay. I never viewed myself as being some, some freedom warrior that was, you know, I'm not standing in front of tanks in Tiananmen Square. I never thought I'd be someone who'd be thrown in the middle of something like this. But you realize in other countries, they, this is a life or death type issue. And we take it for granted here in the US. But now going to your first point with regard to Miles, Miles is someone who I would say is a ideological ally. He does not have a direct financial stake. Now, his family's investment fund are part of the, the coalition of investors, the international investors we have at the beginning

• 34:16Speaker 02

  here. So Miles doesn't have a day to day role, someone else. A lot of good ideas. I'd say he's a very strong ally in this. Obviously, I work with the investment fund that his family helps to support. But he's someone who, again, who's battled the CCP, who's really made it his life mission to take on CCP. So I'm glad to have him on our side, in our corner. But I'm the CEO, we have a board and we have shareholders, and I'm glad I have Miles as a supporter.

• 34:42Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, there's one more topic I want to talk about. But first, do you still talk to Trump at all? Like, are you guys friendly still? You still talk to him regularly?

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And so we probably talk maybe once a week, once every other week. And obviously, he's launching, at some point here, we'll see him launching his own platform, to which I told him I want him to do well, it's just, you know, maybe not too well. But if he runs again, of course, I'll support him for running for president again. And I told him I just, I won't be able to help out 18 hours a day, like maybe he got me to in the past. But a lot of times when we catch up, look, it could be on something as small as on football or some event that's going on, or sometimes we might bounce ideas off each other about different communication strategies or things like that. So there's nothing quite like getting that phone call at the house, and your daughter comes running up and says, Dad, it's President Trump, it's President Trump.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  So it always kind of gives you that little bit of, you know, gives that kind of that little bit tingly feeling of, wow, someone who's the President of the United States is calling, which is pretty cool.

• 35:43Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, I got a question, and then I got to ask for you. My question is, I saw recently that he had comments about Bitcoin. He doesn't seem to be a fan of Bitcoin. Have you ever talked to him about Bitcoin? Or like, what are the general thoughts in terms of Bitcoin and some of his interests? Or like, whatever you know in terms of conversations you guys have had, or his views?

• 36:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think part of it is, look, I think some of this might be just the industry that he came from. He's a real estate guy. And so in real estate, you walk out and you see here is a plot of land. Here is a building, as a developer, that we went and built. Everything is tangible. And one of the things keeping alive with President Trump is, he was never even that active in the stock market, for example. And I've even heard him say that the stock market, in a lot of ways, is just legalized gambling. I've heard him say that might be slightly out of context, but it's roughly what he said. And to him, an investment, you have to see an investment. You have to keep in mind, his dad was a developer also. So his entire life has been spent around the worth or something, if you can go out and point to it.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  That's his worldview. That's where it comes from. We have a bit different perspective, I think. Where I'm trying to get him to a better place when it comes to not just Bitcoin, but other aspects of crypto is, look, even if you're not the biggest fan, well, you have to realize this with the broader inflationary concerns. With the broader, just on the way, the currency valuations and what's happening, you have to realize that crypto is here to stay. It might not be replacing the dollar anytime soon, but it's only going to continue to get bigger. And even the most hardened skeptics are now saying, man, let's go and put five, 10% each week or each month's check aside into crypto. So I can watch it grow.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  But I think also too, just I don't think necessarily his economic advisors in the White House did a good enough job and explained to him about some of the benefits as we go to the blockchain space. And especially how that's going to change some of the peer to peer lending.

• 37:39Anthony Pompliano?

  So after hearing that, my ask to you is, I think that you should try explaining Bitcoin to him as it is free speech. Right. Cause I might take and again, you know, again, uh, never talked to the guy, you and I, obviously talking here and I'm kind of hearing some of the stuff you're talking about. Free speech is obviously important, but I think that's ultimately what Bitcoin specifically ends up kind of accomplishing, right? Is that the exertion of your financial free speech? If you want to send money to somebody in the world, nobody can stop you from doing it. No one can tell you, you can't do that. So like that permissionless, uh, free speech, if you will, but from a financial perspective, uh, is pretty important. The other thing too, I think is that the software, right? We know that, uh, the ability to write software, it's been tested in courts is, uh, is free speech as well.

• 38:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. You can write words on a database and, uh, and ends up kind of operating. So I think that like, it's interesting to hear, uh, cause I think when I saw that he was, he wasn't a fan of Bitcoin, right? He, he, he comes off at least, uh, kind of from an external view as being somewhat. Anti-establishment, right? That the way that things have been isn't necessarily the way that he'd like to do them. And I also see this on the other side of the aisle as well. So I think that some of it is just like, hey, if you're a part of the political machine in some form or fashion, even if you're kind of an outsider to the machine, but you still participate. It seems like a lot of folks don't really like it and I don't, I can't yet tell if it's just because they haven't spent the time to really learn about the intricacies and eventually they'll kind of come across and be proponents.

• 39:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Or if it's just that, you know, hey, look, to your point, I don't even like stocks. I don't like anything that I can't touch. And, you know, you can tell me all you want about all this stuff, but like, hey, is it real estate? No. Okay. Then I'm not interested. So it's fascinating to kind of hear, you know, especially your interest in activities and building a free speech platform. And then, you know, I think my view that Bitcoin is free speech, I would think that he'd be into it. But maybe it's just the, uh, just the lack of interest in anything other than real estate ends up being the difference.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  I think a lot of me, look, I'll tell you that my, my father, who's, uh, who was a welder before he retired.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  I've had conversations with him about, about crypto in the past and he's just, he's like, he's a welder. He's like, you know what's real? Uh, when I go and make something here. And that's, uh, yeah, just his worldview and his approach for how he spent most of his life. But I think when we talk about getter being an all in one free speech platform, it's not just being able to speak your mind politically with what we're doing now, being a marketplace competitor to Twitter and Facebook. Or as we launch our vision, our short video format that will allow us to compete with Tik Tok and with Instagram reels, express yourself creatively. But then also as we look to, uh, your freedom of speech with regard to your personal finances, that's exactly where we are. And that's why we're launching getter pay because really the next step in this,

• 40:18Speaker 02

  and that's why I'm so glad I have the opportunity to chat with you on this, is this financial freedom of not being, for lack of a better term, uh, indentured servants to, uh, to the big financial companies. It shouldn't just be these banks, uh, that are setting, uh, they're sending their rates and they're making you be within their construct. That's why I think some of the peer to peer lending. The particulars so great if you want to go and send money to someone, you don't have to go and pay these exorbitant fees. Then also, I think too, the way that people are investing now and where there's an opportunity for people to get greater returns, have greater control over their economic self destiny, absolutely is free speech. So I agree with you a hundred percent.

• 40:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe, John, you guys got any last questions?

• 40:59Speaker 03

  No, thanks for coming on, Jason.

• 41:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I appreciate it, Jason. I'm super excited. I'm super excited for you guys. Thank you so much for coming on. And I gotta say, Joe Rogan joining, it's not surprising to hear the data, right? It's like one of those things where when somebody big like that and then tweets it out, it's not surprising that you'd get so many downloads, but 150,000. I got one more question. Did Joe Rogan reach out to you guys before joining the platform?

• 41:22Speaker 02

  He did not. And in fact, I will tell you that we've reached out a ton because obviously I've been trying to buy advertising on this show for months. Never talked to them. But I know that Dr. Robert Malone, who was a guest on his show last week, had a pretty epic three hour conversation about vaccine mandates and some of the other things. I think that was the show. I think it came out on Thursday or Friday. It may have been Friday that actually, I think maybe they recorded it Thursday, came out Friday. I've never spoken with Joe, obviously would love the opportunity to chat with him. We've still never communicated with him directly, but I think Dr. Malone chatted with him. And I think Joe just woke up yesterday, saw what was happening with Malone, with Marjorie Taylor Greene, even some traditional news outlets that were being shadow banned or put on digital, put in digital jail by Twitter. And he's like, I'm gonna jump on. So you

• 42:07Speaker 02

  know what? It's sometimes it's better to be elected in good. So we're glad to have him.

• 42:10Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Where can we find, send people to find you on the internet?

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Go to the Apple Store, go to the Google Play Store, simply type in Getter, G E T T R. If you're wondering what Getter stands for, it's a truncated version of get together. It's all about building community. It's a free speech community. If you're on the left, if you're on the right, we want you on the platform. We want everyone on the platform who believes in free speech and who opposes cancel culture. Look, I need to go get Antonio Brown next. He probably needs, he's probably, he's probably looking for some, some additional income. As a Bucks fan, why I tell you, Bruce Arians just ripped his head off. And I mean, AB is totally nuts, but he needs a voice. So AB, if you're out there watching, if you're not still driving around with Danny Boy Hustle Hard, come and jump on Getter. It's a lot of fun.

• 42:57Anthony Pompliano?

  That's awesome. All right. Thanks so much.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  All right, fellas. Thank you.