#320 - Deep Sea Alien Bases: The Underwater CIA Project No One Talks About | UAP Gerb

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones UAP Gerb is a researcher & documentarian specializing in UFO reverse engineering/crash retrieval research, UFO legacy program investigation, and UFO whistleblower analysis. SPONSORS https://trueclassic.com/danny - Upgrade your wardrobe and save on True Classic today. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @UAPGerb FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Operation laser strike 12:59 - DOE's involvement in UFO crash retrieval 16:35 - Insider's description of Area 51 25:42 - NRO is hunting underwater alien craft 36:51 - Underwater UFO crash retrievals 39:07 - Underground & underwater military bases 45:39 - Elon is wrong about aliens 55:39 - Why nobody likes Steven Greer 01:06:43 - Alien reproduction vehicles 01:19:00 - Triangle UFOs 01:22:02 - Brainwave controlled ICBM missiles 01:28:46 - How secret UFO programs are funded 01:36:34 - Dark history of the department of energy (DOE) 01:39:13 - Battelle 01:48:33 - Which "whistleblowers" can be trusted? 01:57:17 - What they REALLY found at Roswell 02:06:54 - The immaculate constellation 02:15:10 - NASA doesn't want us back on the moon 02:24:12 - Is Elon trying to create a surveillance state? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:50Speaker 01

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  That documentary on Jonathan Wiegand, I like, I'd heard of him, but I had never heard any of the backstory that you described.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Oh, it's interesting.

• 1:16Danny Jones?

  What was going on in, what was it, Peru?

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. 1997, Operation Laser Strike.

• 1:20Danny Jones?

  Operation Laser Strike. Never heard of it.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  So, this was a classified US Southcom, US Southern Command operation to track narco traffic, drug traffic in Peru, Colombia, Bolivia, all sorts of South American countries. And the MACG, the Marine Air Control Group 28, was sent down alongside some elements of the Air Force in a pretty large joint program, including the CIA, to set up TPS-43 and other radar systems to track some of these narco planes. And so Jonathan Wiegand, there's still debate on whether his station was in Pucolpa, Peru, which is kind of central Peru, Iquitos, Peru, which is northern Peru, because he wasn't privy to where he was taken for this radar detachment to track the narco traffic. I personally think this is northern Peru because he just gave a lot of details about

• 2:08Speaker 03

  the flight time down to Peru, details about time spent on planes. So, one morning, late March, early April, he is doing nighttime guard duty, and a sergeant comes up to him, I think this is Sergeant Montaligre, and says, hey, there's been a crashed craft, we need to go out and see if it's friendly. Nothing about UFOs, just a craft crash, this could be a plane. So Wagan, Sergeant Allen, Sergeant Atkins, and about seven other Marines all drive in a direction to go find this downed aircraft. By the time they reached the LZ after a combination of driving and trekking, the Marines come across a ravine where a about a 20 meter in length egg shaped craft is just stuck in a granite cliff face.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  Probably granite, Wagan doesn't fully know for sure what the material is, but wedged in there, there's fluid leaking out of the craft. There's what looks to be three hatches, one of them open with possibly a non-human arm hanging out of the craft. And this liquid is like clear, but it's viscous like syrup. And the craft itself looks somewhat metallic, but it's changing colors like purple and green. The best I can describe that is the mother of pearl effect, similar to oil on water. So Wagan gets pretty close to the craft. It's way above him, but he gets pretty close under it. He gets the fluid all over himself and it's to this day like removed hair from his legs. It discolored his camis or his battle dress uniform. And so after about 10 to 15 minutes at the site and some interesting details about the

• 3:32Speaker 03

  craft is there was a light going around its circumference that seemed to power down. Almost seemed like the craft shut off, including a sound like a guitar amp that eventually died down. Wagan eventually kind of came to hearing Montali, or sorry, hearing Sergeants Allen and Atkins yelling at him to, hey, step away from the craft. And during this time, he felt like, I know you and Jesse talked about Jake Barber and some of the psionics and stuff. He felt like there was something in the craft reaching out to him, trying to communicate with him, trying to tell him that it was okay. Don't worry, help us, but it's all gonna be okay, which is really bizarre, really strange. And to this day, he has seen like these creatures, what he calls them, in his dreams that were in the craft.

• 4:15Speaker 03

  He, he doesn't know how to explain how he felt like these things were contacting him. But it's really strange, but here's where-

• 4:21Danny Jones?

  When did he say this for the first time publicly?

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Two thou, the year 2000 on Stephen Greer's Disclosure Project archive.

• 4:28Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  So he was part of the 2000 Disclosure Briefing Project where Greer was doing some really good work, getting whistleblowers together. And Wagan's testimony was in there and has really stood out forever. He reached out to Greer because he was facing a lot of reprisals and he thought he was gonna die.

• 4:43Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  So there's some stuff he doesn't like talking about, um, and he didn't really talk about live with me, but stuff like being surveilled, having his money messed with, having, you know, his cars tampered with. And he was just really afraid for his life, so he decided to speak out.

• 4:59Danny Jones?

  But so. How long ago did you talk to him?

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Uh, I talked to him almost daily, but I.

• 5:04Danny Jones?

  You talk to him daily?

• 5:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's one of my good friends. I love Jonathan. He's a stand-up guy. He's hilarious. He's great. Uh, so I, I talked to him all the time, but getting back to his story. So Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkins holler at him to move away from the craft. As soon as these Marines start heading up, uh, heading up the ravine, and this is the most interesting part to me because, you know, my channel's pretty focused around crash retrieval and reverse engineering. A couple of US Army CH-47 helicopters fly over them. As these helicopters are getting to land at a nearby clearing, the Marines, including Wiegand, including Allen, including Atkins, are intercepted by a team of men in black camouflage. And stop me if this sounds familiar when you hear cases like Michael Herrera, a team of men in black camouflage that apprehend the Marines,

• 5:50Speaker 03

  strip them of their gear. Wiegand being feisty, being like 23 years old, tries to swing at one of them. Clocks him in the head. And these guys, at that point, make an example out of Wiegand, pushes face in the ground. He gets more of the liquid on him, beat the crap out of him. And then out of the helicopters come a team of people ranging from rain jackets to large hazmat gear, mop gear, mission oriented protection posture, marked and stamped with DOE, Department of Energy.

• 6:17Danny Jones?

  No shit.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  And so a couple of these DOE guys in protective gear see Wiegand, they strip him of his clothes. Wiegand is handcuffed to a stretcher, his feet are gagged, and he is put on a CH-47 out of there, doesn't know what happened to Atkins or Allens. But here's what's, what's really interesting about the DOE.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  The Department of Energy has its own team. It's called the Nuclear Emergency Support Team. And this is basically a rapid reaction team that can be sent anywhere in the continental United States or around the world to react to nuclear or radiological signatures. And one of the governing bodies of NEST, the DOE NEST Nuclear Emergency Support Team, is the 1954 Atomic Energy Agreement. 1954, if this sounds familiar to you, are you familiar with the 2023 and 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, UAP Disclosure Amendment?

• 7:10Danny Jones?

  I'm familiar with it, but I don't know a lot of the details.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Okay, so like a quick sign out to that, the UAPDA, which is probably going to be pushed again in the upcoming Senate conference. I hope that gets pushed through, but the whole point of this amendment was to bring forth disclosure of UFO legacy programs, programs hidden within the US Department of Defense and intelligence communities that are housing, exploiting, or reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin, TUOs. And one of the governing bodies listed in this legislation that hides some of these materials is the 1954 Atomic Energy Act that considers UFO materials as transclassified foreign nuclear materials. So inherently, that means like anything that could be considered nuclear or radiological is pretty much born restricted, born classified,

• 7:57Speaker 03

  and can be pigeonholed to avoid standard declassification processes. What's interesting about the DOE NEST is their founding authority was also the 1954 Atomic Energy Agreement. So you have legislation like the UAPDA talking about 54 being how the classification system for UFO materials is born. And then you have stories like Jonathan Wiegand encountering DOE teams whose given authority is that same 54 agreement. So it's very interesting. Also, there's provable instances that DOE NEST was actually looking to operate in South America, Colombia, Bolivia, Peru at that time in 1997. There was a Russian probe that went errant. It was going to crash. US Southcom thought this Russian probe was going to crash. Either in the Pacific or somewhere near Peru and Bolivia.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  So DOE was actively using Defense Support Program satellites to monitor the region later that year. So DOE Nest was already interested in in South America.

• 8:51Danny Jones?

  Wow, and there was a lot of spooky shit going on in South America in the 90s. Like, there's a lot of, there was a lot of UFO crash incidents.

• 8:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:59Danny Jones?

  And there was a lot of, I think that Jacques Vallée book was earlier than the 90s, though. Jacques Vallée wrote a book about like some crazy massacre that happened in South America. Where like basically all these people were slaughtered. Have you heard of this?

• 9:13Speaker 03

  It sounds somewhat familiar, but not fully.

• 9:15Danny Jones?

  I think Jesse was the one who told me about it. But, but yeah, no, South America and Mexico, that that period of time was like very active with this kind of stuff.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Well, because same year, we have Vargene Brazil.

• 9:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  James Hawkes is big case, right?

• 9:29Danny Jones?

  Yep, yep.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  And I guess he's doing a lot more work on that. He just talked to, I think it was Chris Ramsey or somebody that he's got more information coming out about that. So that'll be pretty darn interesting. In 1978, in Bolivia, there was a case of a, almost like a Tic Tac, like a cylindrical shaped object crashing into the mountains of Bolivia. A US Air Force team called Moondust, Project Moondust, was dispatched to kind of investigate that region. And I'm trying to think what else in Mexico, kind of like what you're talking about. In 1974, in Mexico, there's a pretty famous kind of underrepresented crash retrieval case called Cojame, Mexico, northern Mexico, of a craft saucer that a Mexican retrieval team went to go get. But there was some sort of toxic or biological hazard in the craft that killed the entire Mexican recovery team.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  And then, of course, the Americans and their CH-53 Chinooks swooped in and took the craft. However, there's, of course, an argument you can make that probably maybe our guys, the Americans took them out. But there's a, it's South America and Central America, a ton of crash retrieval stories.

• 10:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  And a lot of marine crash retrieval stories. You have Jonathan Wiegand, you have like the testimony of Michael Herrera. And there are some other whistleblowers who aren't public, who have talked about seeing such teams in the continental United States, these black teams with craft. So it's, it's really interesting. And then, kind of rounding out the Wiegand story, he was then on the, on the 47 taken to an unknown base into an underground section of a base where he was held for two days.

• 10:57Danny Jones?

  And why was he the only one that was taken out of there?

• 10:59Speaker 03

  That's a great question. My guess is because he was contaminated with the liquid. Atkins and Allen did not get covered in the liquid. But the weird thing is, Wigan didn't have any like medical tests, right? Because I've hypothesized he was taken to the Namru Navy Medical Research Unit Six in Iquitos, Peru. But it's not like he was subjected to blood drawn, all that stuff. The one weird thing is he was forced to give in like an, forced to take an anthrax booster right after that. Which Michael Herrera also had to take an anthrax booster after that.

• 11:28Danny Jones?

  An anthrax booster?

• 11:30Speaker 03

  And another Marine also had to take an anthrax booster in 97. Which is weird that there's a lot of anthrax boosters right after crash retrieval encounters. But I, I think that's why he separated. So he doesn't know what happened to Atkins or Allen at this point.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  But in, in-

• 11:45Danny Jones?

  He still isn't talking to them since?

• 11:47Speaker 03

  No, he doesn't like him. They don't like him.

• 11:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Part of what's a little weird about this case is, one of those two, Atkins or Allen, I reached out to both. One of them got back to me and I emailed them, uh, just cordially saying like, hey, I'd like to talk to you about your time in laser strike, specifically 1997 and possibly anomalous crashed aircraft. And I sent emails out from my UAP GURB email. It doesn't have my information, none of that. So I emailed one of them and they respond, hello, my full name. Which is of course like a bully intimidation tactic. And the guy just tried to call Jonathan crazy, tried to downplay him, but you know, he, he did say my full name when I had never given out my information before to him, nor since, nor on my channel.

• 12:29Danny Jones?

  Has Jonathan, did he tell you about like ever being like contacted by anyone from the government or intimidated and then tried to like shut them up, people trying to shut him up?

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's part of the reason he, um, went to Greer.

• 12:43Danny Jones?

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• 13:45Speaker 03

  He said that the FBI would show up at his house and show up at his grandma's house, like looking to talk to him. He never talked to him, but so he was pretty spooked. Sort of like the, the men in black, right? If you want to call them the men in black, telling people not to talk about their encounters.

• 13:58Danny Jones?

  Right. And these are these, these Nest teams. So these Nest teams are part of the Department of Energy. And it's basically like they, they comp, they, they bring in all of the like top tier special operators.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Not quite. And I'm sorry, I should have specified that more. It's more of a science and technology team.

• 14:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  They just deal with the science, they deal with setting up a site, neutralizing signatures, debriefing containment, all that stuff. But the interesting thing about Nest is of course it is a DOE department, but it operates out of contractors. Contractors including Raytheon, Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Sandia National Labs and E G and G. E G and G, of course, is the infamous company Bob Lazar said hired him to work at Area 51 S4 to reverse engineer propulsion devices on the sports model.

• 14:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I know you cover it deeply in your video, but like after they extracted him out, does he or does anyone else have any idea what happened to that craft or what they could have done with it?

• 14:56Speaker 03

  And that Jonathan and I talked about that. I mean, that thing was pretty large. And if it was stuck in granite, how the heck was that thing taken out? Right? Like there were CH47s on the ground, the team would have had to extract this thing from a granite cliff face almost.

• 15:08Danny Jones?

  And, and how does a, does something get lodged in granite? You would think that like it would have, that would mean it's harder than granite.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:17Danny Jones?

  If it went through the granite. What kind of material is harder than granite?

• 15:21Speaker 03

  I don't, some sort of meta meta material, maybe like a shield around it. Maybe that translucent mother of pearl effect was some sort of shield like material. And why did it crash? I know you and Jesse talked a little bit about why UFOs crash. Jonathan hypothesizes that this was shot down from a Hawk MIM 23 or similar missile system. And I know, you know, how our highly advanced, non-human craft shot down, right? It seems a little bit silly. A ballistic missile could take down a spacecraft like that.

• 15:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  You know, maybe, maybe there's some, some truth to that. There's some other cases we can talk about, about shoot downs as well as the Strategic Defense Initiative under Reagan, which there's a lot of really interesting ties that there were some backdoor programs for some space-based shoot down weapons of UFOs. But what Wagan thinks here is this was a Hawk MIM 23 airburst system that just exploded near the target and some of the fragging just took it out.

• 16:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, like a shotgun blast missile.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  But that's what he thinks, right? He doesn't have any sort of confirming evidence for that. It's just speculation on his part.

• 16:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And then when he, so he claimed in 2000 that he, they were like telepathically communicating with them. That's wild.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  But what's interesting too, he talks about it, he talked about like a three, four-fingered arm hanging out the craft.

• 16:29Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  Greer edited that out of, of his, of Wagan's interview.

• 16:34Danny Jones?

  Why do you think that is?

• 16:35Speaker 03

  I have no idea, because Greer likes to speak about kind of love and light communication. And these beings were very friendly to Jonathan, asking for help, saying everything's going to be okay. So I don't know. In that same interview, Greer also cut out James Fox asking Jonathan questions. Now, why was that? I don't know. I don't know why Greer would cut it out, but you know.

• 16:54Danny Jones?

  Maybe he didn't want to, maybe he thought like the descriptions of fingers and like some weird alien arm hanging out would make it more unbelievable. And he wanted to kind of like leave the stuff in there that was more plausible.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. But with the stories of crash retrieval, there's always the baggage of biologics. Right, some, there's so, in so many cases with crash retrievals, there's stories of biologics. And I think that for a lot of people is a big, um, big stretch to kind of wrap their head around. Cause it's one thing to think that non-human spacecraft, maybe from another planet, maybe from a different existence. Maybe future humans like Dr. Mike Masters likes to kind of hypothesize on is crashing here. Whole nother subject to think that there are beans in here and what those could be, their possible morphologies and so forth.

• 17:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I'm sure you've heard, I'm sure you've heard the story of Annie Jacobson's description of Area 51.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:39Danny Jones?

  The guy she talked to from EG and G.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:41Danny Jones?

  What do you make of that?

• 17:42Speaker 03

  So, George Knapp, uh, I'm trying to think about that guy's name. It's slipping me right now.

• 17:47Danny Jones?

  She only released it like last year, I think, after she dropped her book. She, she kept it secret in the book.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:53Danny Jones?

  But she released his name, cause I think he's dead now.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Yes. So I'm trying to think and, uh, I'm trying to think what the name is. But this was a source of George Knapp's 10, 20 years before that. The guy who worked at EG and G at Area 51, head of special projects.

• 18:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  This guy told George Knapp, George, told George Knapp, and you can look at it in a weaponized interview with him and Jeremy Corbell. I'll send you the link.

• 18:13Danny Jones?

  I remember seeing this.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  He said that that director of special programs at EG and G told George Knapp that there were beans and craft held at Area 51. And told Annie Jacobson something completely different.

• 18:25Danny Jones?

  Why would he do that?

• 18:29Danny Jones?

  That's strange.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Isn't that intriguing?

• 18:31Danny Jones?

  Because Annie's description is very, it's so detailed because she's with the family and him. And apparently he told his family this for the first time and they were like really upset about it.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:44Danny Jones?

  Like, how do you make that, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to think about that.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Especially because in that weaponized interview, George Knapp was a little bit hot under the collar. Cause he said like, hey, I, I'm, I, gosh, I'm trying to remember this guy's name.

• 18:59Danny Jones?

  Steve, maybe you could find it.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  He, he says that this EG and G.

• 19:03Danny Jones?

  Annie, just type in Annie Jacobson, EG and G, source.

• 19:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, basically what basically what this guy told Annie and this was way after he talked to George Knapp.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:16Danny Jones?

  Obviously, or was it?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like 10 years after.

• 19:18Danny Jones?

  It was 10 years after, okay. Basically, what he told Annie is that it was a Russian drone that was flown here for.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  By disfigured people, right?

• 19:26Danny Jones?

  By disfigured people, by Mengele, the Nazi guy, had disfigured children, basically, to make them look like aliens. And they crashed, it crashed, whether on purpose or not. And and he was like, well, why wouldn't you expose?

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Alfred O'Donnell, that's it, Alfred O'Donnell.

• 19:42Danny Jones?

  So she asked him, she goes, well, that's fucked up. Why wouldn't, why would the US government keep this secret? Because this makes the Soviets or Russia look terrible. And he said, the reason they didn't expose it is because EG and G started doing the same exact thing with children.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  See, that's, that's interesting that that's said because.

• 19:59Danny Jones?

  And she said his whole family was there.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:01Danny Jones?

  Listening to this and they were like, why, why did you keep this from us? That's just terrible.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  That's also something that was parroted by Rick Doty.

• 20:08Danny Jones?

  Air Force. He said the same thing.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  OSI officer, yeah, and Greer's, I think it was his 2017 documentary, Unacknowledged. That was the first time I ever heard of Roswell specifically being like disfigured people sent from Russia. Which I don't know, it's interesting that Alfred O'Donnell, on one hand, told George Knapp that there are non-human beings and craft under Area 51 and told Annie Jacobson that this was a Russian experiment. Regardless of outside Annie Jacobson and George Knapp, there's plenty about Area 51 specifically. And of course, EG and G, that's well worth investigation. And as well as that kind of dives into the subject of contractors with UFO technology, UFO materials, UFO bodies. It's a, it's a pretty deep rabbit hole that there's a lot to outside of just Albert O'Donnell.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Because that's so weird. He tells Knapp one thing and Jacobson another.

• 20:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is weird and it makes me, it makes me wonder if, if what he told Annie was. More closer to the truth because he was older, a lot older, closer to his death and his family was there and he told his family and they were visibly upset according to Annie. Unless Annie is making it up, which I doubt she is.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  I doubt she is either. Annie seems pretty respectful. I know she disagrees a lot with some of the more UFO stuff, but doesn't she also, she also is a proprietor that Area 51 S4 is real, right?

• 21:28Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Like, I think she's put forward a badge of somebody who worked at Site 4.

• 21:32Danny Jones?

  Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  And of course, Site 4 is what Bob Lazar said he worked at the Sports Model 4. S4 is really interesting. It's like the auxiliary site below Groom Lake. It's just south of Groom Lake, Area 51. And then you have Tonopah, just northwest.

• 21:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. The S4 stuff is crazy, man. I don't know. I don't think, I don't remember if she talked about S4 in the, in the Area 51 book or not, but it's really interesting, some of the stuff that they were doing at Area 51 right after World War II. And, you know, she explains how the money was stolen. I think it was Dulles stole a bunch of money from the reconstruction in Europe fund to build Area 51. And they were doing all kinds of crazy CIA test flights and building, you know, building the, those, those, those Blackbirds.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:22Danny Jones?

  Those, and the, and the U2 and all that stuff there. But I don't know. I don't know. Like, do you think that Area 51 is still being utilized for this kind of stuff?

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Probably. And I also think that there's probably underground facilities beneath Area 51. Specifically, maybe a facility built into the pre-existing Boron Mine there. And that could be considered a deep underground military base. So I made a video on, there was this whistleblower who went really quiet. He was a lieutenant colonel at Edwards Air Force Base out of the 412th Test Wing. The Edwards 412th Test Wing is what's called a major range test facility base, an MRTFBs, an MRTFB. There's just over 20 in the continental United States. These include things like dugway proving grounds, the Utah Test and Training Range, Fort Wachukka, Edwards 412, China Lake, Pax River, and your favorite that you talked about with Dolan, Altec, the Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Command.

• 23:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  These operate between Navy, Air Force, Army, and Defense Organization, right? So. Edwards 412 is a MRTFB and this individual, I call him Ed, just because I don't want to burn his real name. Ed claims that he worked as an electronics warfare test director at Edwards Air Force Base at the 412, testing reverse engineered vehicles, reverse engineered ARV, alien reproduction vehicles, whatever you want to call them. And that he was initially stationed at Nellis Air Force Base, where he operated under Nellis between Edwards at Area 51 and S4. And the thing is, this, I hope this guy goes public sometime because I've tried to track him down with every avenue. I have his name, I have his number. I have called him, he's blocked me,

• 24:00Speaker 03

  I've emailed him, he's blocked me, I've texted him, he's blocked me. Heck, I've even added him on Snapchat. And funny enough, that's the one place where he's ever like read my message and not blocked me. Snapchat. This is a grown man. And his, his, his official records do, of course, say he was at Area 51, that he was at Nellis Air Force Base, that he was at Edwards. And so this guy claims that he worked on, serving as the test director on reverse engineered vehicles, kind of operating as the middleman between scientists and ARV pilots.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  And so I think that that existing program, which he said existed between Area 51, S4, and Edwards is likely still going on today. But of course, that's a, that's a pretty, that's a topic that requires a lot of, kind of, I guess, credibility in UFO crash retrievals to think about ARV, alien reproduction vehicles, and kind of reverse engineering vehicles. Where, what do you think about that? I know you've talked to Jesse a little bit, kind of on your stance about UFO. Where do you, where do you stand specifically on copycat vehicles, if so to speak?

• 25:03Danny Jones?

  I don't know. I have no idea. Like, you're saying, you're saying like, what do I think about us being able to recreate a UFO?

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:10Danny Jones?

  Like the Tic Tac type stuff?

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Tic Tac, triangles, saucers.

• 25:15Danny Jones?

  I don't know. I think, I think it's a mix of shit, probably, right? I think like the Tic Tac was likely something that we have, that we created, you know, maybe some black aerospace, or like Lockheed or something like that, some sort of like black technology that nobody knows about. Maybe that's part of the $21 trillion that's missing that Catherine was talking about? That created the Tic Tacs or something like that?

• 25:39Danny Jones?

  I don't think it was like foreign military. I think it was probably us testing our own stuff on those jets that had just gotten their radar upgraded.

• 25:48Danny Jones?

  Now, you know, what Dolan was explaining to me is that there's documented accounts of these underwater UFOs coming out of the ocean in like seventeen seventeen, which is crazy. And since talking to him, it's, you know, it's apparent that there's just a mixed bag of shit here. Like, is it something that's been here for for millions of years that lives under the water?

• 26:17Danny Jones?

  Is it? It's probably also us. We've probably recreated shit that we found.

• 26:24Danny Jones?

  You know, then additionally, what me and Jesse were talking about is like, he was explaining how all this anti-gravity research went dark in the 50s and just and just went nowhere. And then string theory came about. So like, that probably has something to do with it. The towns and brown stuff, you know, there's there's so many pieces of this puzzle. It's crazy.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Well, I know you and Dolan were talking about the subject of USO. And I know you guys brought up the underwater NRO. Because you didn't dive too much into it. So that's something we I'd love to talk about because it's so intriguing.

• 26:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  And also involves a pretty interesting, two really interesting crash retrieval stories.

• 26:59Danny Jones?

  So how come I've never heard of the underwater? Is it classified or is it?

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:03Danny Jones?

  Hey, guys, if you're not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video. Back to the show. So it's not, there's no website for the underwater NRO?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:12Danny Jones?

  Because you would think they could make an excuse for it. They could say, oh, yeah, we're just trying to monitor nuclear submarines, you know, adversary submarines.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  So there is a Wikipedia page that's crap that calls it the hidden younger brother of the NRO. So in US intelligence, you have the big five agencies, the CIA, NSA, DIA, NRO, and NGA. And then there's the Hidden Neuro, the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office, whose activities are seemingly more sensitive than even the NROs. There are admirals in the Navy that I have spoken to who did not know that Neuro was a thing.

• 27:45Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 27:45Speaker 03

  And so I sent him a little bit of stuff on Neuro and they went, oh. So there's a couple, there's a couple of books such as the, the Intelligence Community by Jeffrey T. Richelson, great book. I really recommend everybody read that. And some other sources that can really dive in to learn a bit more about NRO, as well as former Admiral, Director of Naval Intelligence, CIA Deputy Director, NSA Director, Bobby Ray Enman. Bobby Ray Enman, in a, I think it was 2018, finally admitted in a speech at some university in 2018 that he directed NRO, but he still couldn't talk about it to this day, which is interesting. He said, when he became Director of Naval Intelligence, he wore another hat that was NRO, but they still didn't want him to talk about it. And in another interview

• 28:28Speaker 03

  for a university, I think this was some California university, he said that he had gotten in trouble before for talking about NRO. So NRO was started in 1969, and it was started to kind of coordinate the Navy's and the CIA's reconnaissance activities, similar to the, how the NRO was started to coordinate the Air Forces and the CIA's activities, right? And so, part of the founding programs for NRO were to kind of coordinate operations, keep track of, and commence missions with some of our sensitive nuclear submarines, kind of tap undersea cables. I think this was called the Ivy Bells Program, and as

• 29:10Speaker 03

  well as just underwater reconnaissance, underwater monitoring. The NRO was supposed to exist between the Navy and CIA's Directorate of Science and Technology. Now, that Directorate of Science and Technology, we can talk a lot more about that because that has some tremendous connections to UFO crash retrievals. But really, early on, the CIA just kind of took command of NRO, and it wasn't until 1972, three years after its creation, that John Warner, Secretary of the Navy, was finally put as NRO's Director. But then it changed hands back a little bit, because in 74, Bobby Ray Enman became Director of NRO, and of course, he went on to be a CIA spook. So, NRO's kind of claim to fame is using vessels

• 29:49Speaker 03

  like the USS Halibut, USS Sea Wolf, the USS Jimmy Carter, the NR-1, the United States' smallest nuclear submarine, and the Glomar Explorer. Have you heard of the Glomar Explorer? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so, so- K-129 Soviet sub crashes near Hawaii, a little bit northwest. The CIA and NRO create the Glomar Explorer to go retrieve the vessel. And I think it embarks in 1972, right? And conventional wisdom, only a third of the K-129 is retrieved. Maybe more, probably more, and it might be buried up in the Pacific Northwest. But then Glomar went on to be used by Lockheed Martin and its subsidiaries for 20 years

• 30:32Speaker 03

  for quote unquote, "deep sea mining" operations and such. So the really, really, really interesting kind of connections with NRO come with chief scientist of special projects for the Navy, John P. Craven. And so in 1964, John P. Craven was set to start the Deep Systems or Deep Submergence Systems Project, the DSSP. And I'm sorry, there's a ton of acronyms. I'll try to spell them all out. That's what I get flack for a lot. And this was to drastically increase the Navy's deep ocean engineering capabilities. And so the DSSP gave Craven the task. We need you to be able to commence engineering and Navy operations at way bigger depths.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  So 1964, Craven starts the DSSP. In 1965, Craven receives a classified briefing of something called Project Sand Dollar. Sand Dollar is the earliest probably SAP within SAP within SAP we can kind of make sense of. It was a program that was hidden within a program, hidden within another program, hidden within the Polaris submarine missile program, which was oddly enough spearheaded by Admiral Rayborn, who went on to go work at SAIC, but we can talk about that later. But this program was highly classified and an itemized inventory of a collection of objects on the seafloor for national security importance, ranging from the Atlantic, just all around the world. And it wasn't just aircraft or nuclear stuff.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  So commencing after that briefing in 1965 on Sand Dollar, Craven, under the DSSP, the Deep Systems Submergence Projects, creates the DSRV, Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle, and DSSV, Deep Submergence Search Vehicle. And these are supposed to be vehicles that... Kind of can satisfy the DSSP. So the DSRV, the deep submergence rescue vehicle is supposed to be basically a submarine rescue vehicle. This was out of response to the loss of the USS Thresher. And this would be something that a submarine team can get in a small little submarine that can be transported anywhere around the world at 72 hours. It's that rapid reaction. It can be piggybacked on, on a vessel, specifically Craven says in the Silent War, his memoirs,

• 32:45Speaker 03

  the USS Halibut and the USS Seawolf, two neuro vessels that he directly names to rescue any submarine crew anywhere in the world, la di la di da. And the DSSV, which is used for ocean surveying, ocean engineering, retrieval operations and so forth. There were supposed to be six DSRV and six DSSV, the two submersible units built, but only two DSRVs were ever built, the Mystic and Avalon out of Lockheed Martin. So there were only two of those ever built. Or that brings me to a, a really interesting crash retrieval story. So in, you know, the Art Bell Show, right?

• 33:25Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  So in 2002, I think it was about summer of 2002, a caller came on air and said, hello, my name is Mark. I was a former marine diver that went on to go work on a DSRV crew. And so this guy tells the story of in 1991 or 1992, I'm getting the dates a little bit wrong. There was a survey ship in the North Atlantic, about 250 miles outside of Aberdeen, Scotland, that picked up radiological signatures on the seafloor. And that the DSRV was dispatched to go check this thing out. And so the, the group is steamed out to the North Atlantic. I think this is in the Rockwell, Rockall Trough in the North Atlantic, just northwest of Aberdeen, Scotland. Cause I looked

• 34:07Speaker 03

  at like depths and this guy said this was about a mile and a half deep, Mark did. And so the team dives.

• 34:13Danny Jones?

  So, so where specifically would it be?

• 34:15Speaker 03

  The Rockall Trough.

• 34:16Danny Jones?

  The Rockall Trough?

• 34:17Speaker 03

  Yes, Rockall.

• 34:18Danny Jones?

  Pull up a map of that if you can, Stu.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  So the team dives in the DSRV, which could also be a DSSV, a deep system search vehicle, one of the two, because Craven said that John P. Craven, remember, chief scientist of special projects out of the Navy, that although there were never official missions for DSRV or DSSV, because no submarines ever sunk after the Thresher, these were sent on numerous clandestine operations.

• 34:45Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  If it might be a Google Earth search might be a little bit better.

• 34:48Danny Jones?

  Well, you had it, but then you lost it. There you go. Rock, Rockall?

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:54Danny Jones?

  Hit layers on the bottom left.

• 34:58Danny Jones?

  Zoom in on that. Oh shit, look at that.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, so this was about a mile and a half deep, so we need over 8,000 feet sea floor.

• 35:08Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  And so Mark and his group are steamed out from Virginia. My guess is this is a really clandestine DSSV, because the DSSV have operational depths of 20,000 feet, but were apparently never built, but used according to Craven for clandestine purposes to this region. The team dives, by the time they get to the seafloor, they see a large triangle wedged in the seafloor. The triangle has no cockpit, no visible means of propulsion. It's wedged in the seafloor and around its circumference has caliphic writing. Same thing as the 1965 Kecksburg, Pennsylvania crash, same thing as the Roswell I-beam, same thing as what Danny Sheehan has said he found in the classified Blue Book files. And so there's a really anomalous triangle down here

• 35:56Speaker 03

  that there's no visible means of propulsion, nothing they can see. So the team goes back up, informs the steamship what they saw. A marine archaeologist is brought down. They go take photos, videos and survey the vessel. The marine archaeologist estimates that that triangle had been buried within the, the, the, kind of the seafloor for 30 or 40 years. And so eventually the team is tasked with rigging materials to the craft to try to bring it up. And because the size is about 70 feet in height, the team estimates this is about the weight of an F-14, right? And an F-14 is interesting because the NR1 had previously recovered a lost F-14 off a US aircraft carrier. But so the, the object is rigged up.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  You know, the crew makes estimates based off the, the size, what metal might be, you know, involved, brushed aluminum and so forth. But this object rises about three or four times faster once buoyancy is attached to it and it's kind of brought up to the ocean surface. The craft is eventually rigged up. Mark, once the DSRV crew is back on board, gets to see the craft again, this time in person, about 70 feet long, little bit rounded of a back, like a perfect triangle, glyphic writing along the side, like gunmetal color, no visible means propulsion, no lights. And eventually he and his crew are steamed off ship, never given another word about this. Not sold to sign any NDAs or anything, which is kind of interesting, but apparently the work they did was inherently classified because the DSRV and the DSSV was used for classified operations under NRO.

• 37:20Danny Jones?

  Hmm. That's fucking wild, bro.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a really interesting story and it just went on Art Bell once. And I'm trying to track this down because Mark drew sketches of this for Art Bell and he also provided Art Bell the names of the other Navy guys he was with. So I want to track these guys down and find out more about this story.

• 37:40Danny Jones?

  Have you tried reaching out?

• 37:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know a guy who used to work for Art Bell and I'm, I'm trying, no luck because Art Bell has passed. But gosh, would that be, would that be something to, to get after?

• 37:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I wonder how many more stories there are like that of retrieving stuff under the oceans, you know, because you don't really hear about that kind of stuff.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  No, there's 1967 Shag Harbor, of course, which occurred in Canada. But here's a real treat. In 1972, there was an encounter of a man who worked as a gunnery instructor at Great Lakes Naval Station near Chicago. This guy, I think he went by the pseudonym RK, related his story to Leonard Stringfield. Leonard Stringfield is one of the greatest UFO crash retrieval investigators of all time, wrote, um, status reports one through seven on UFO crash retrievals. RK claimed that in seventy-two at the Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, he was tasked to kind of deliver orders, deliver a message to, you know, a commanding officer. So as he goes to deliver to the commanding officer, he passes into a Quonset-style hut on the premises.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  And in there is a large metallic teardrop-shaped craft. No visible means propulsion, looks like a teardrop, looks like a perfect mix between a teardrop and an egg. Very smooth, one color and so forth. But here's what's interesting. He then meets a guy that was stationed in San Diego in the Navy. And this Navy guy said that he knew about that craft that was brought down and that it was brought down by a naval destroyer and recovered by the Glomar Explorer north of Hawaii in nineteen seventy-two.

• 39:10Danny Jones?

  Wow. I think we've explored more of the moon than we have of our own ocean floors. It's crazy. And if you look at, we were talking about this with Richard Dolan, too. Like you can literally turn the globe. If you look at the Pacific Ocean, you can see there's a, there's a, no fucking land.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:23Danny Jones?

  It covers up more.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  It's huge.

• 39:25Danny Jones?

  It's like a massive amount of this earth is ocean.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  So what's interesting about the, the creation of NERO, the Deep Submergent Systems Project and all this in nineteen sixty-four, it seems like Sand Dollar had existed previously with an itemized inventory of everything that existed on the seafloor of national security interest. But until Craven created the DSSP following Sand Dollar, and then NERO was created, there was no way the Navy could retrieve these items. So it seems like the US Navy had a large itemized inventory of all of these objects on the seafloor. But until Craven drastically increased the depths at which the Navy could conduct engineering operations and retrieval operations, those just sat there.

• 40:06Danny Jones?

  Now, what do you know about the, that base in the Bahamas that me and Jesse was talking about?

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Oh, Altech?

• 40:13Danny Jones?

  Altech, yeah. Is that still, is that thing still operational? Are they still doing work there?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  I, I'm not sure actually, but that brings up the, the point of like underwater bases, right?

• 40:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  There's a, um, There's a great author, his name's Richard Soder. He has a book called Underground and Undersea Bases, where he talks about possible undersea bases worldwide, which is really interesting. And of course, there's, it's, it's very likely that there are like undersea neuro bases for submarine refueling and such, but I mean, the, the concept of undersea bases is interesting because already underground bases is, is incredibly intriguing.

• 40:47Danny Jones?

  The question about undersea bases is, how do you power them?

• 40:52Speaker 03

  The logistics sound like a nightmare.

• 40:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  At least for-

• 40:54Danny Jones?

  It seems like optimal, though, right?

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, for cooling, especially if you have some sort of high temperature reactor. I mean, in the 1960s, the US Army Corps of Engineer published a bunch of deep basing studies on where to place deep underground military bases throughout the continental United States, but also published a ton of papers such as like self-contained nuclear reactors to power STFs, subterranean facilities and so forth.

• 41:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 41:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's one of the things that Catherine was saying, that a lot of the missing money she thinks has been going to funding these constructions of these underground bases.

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's, I think, one of the most interesting topics in this subject because, you know, I've done a project on directly relating those to UFO programs and craft and materials being stored underground. And I have a friend who was former Army Public Affairs. This was about 2010 to 2013 area. And he relayed to me that he traveled between a STF, a subterranean facility, as they call them, under Fort Bliss, Texas, and White Sands to Missile Range. And he traveled between these locations via train.

• 41:57Danny Jones?

  What?

• 41:57Speaker 03

  And he said that the train went so fast, it reminded him of his fear of flying.

• 42:02Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Because a lot of people will look at the kind of underground bases, systems and connective tunnels and scoff at a little bit because it's a logistic and engineering nightmare, right? But, you know, I, I digress. Back in the 1970s, the RAND Corporation, which is known as a federally funded research and development center, FFRDC, one of the employees, high up scientists of the RAND Corporation, published something called the VHST, the Very High Speed Transit System, which was a massive underground train system that would connect New York to Los Angeles and basically be a massive underground tunnel system. And of course, if these tunnel systems exist, I think it's highly likely we got some of that technology and ideas from the Nazis.

• 42:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  You know, before, before the end of World War II, there was, there was a system called the Rohrbahn by some German scientists, which was a pneumatic train system to exist under Germany and to connect Berlin to France or Paris and a network of underground train systems to go at incredible speeds.

• 43:01Danny Jones?

  This was a concept?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. But here's what's not a concept that's really interesting. So Xavier Dorsch was head of the TOT organization in Nazi Germany. The TOT organization had created the Autobahn, you know, that famous German highway with endless speeds. And at this time, Hans Kommler and various really nasty Nazi scientists were using underground locations for aircraft manufacturing and so forth, for contractors, but as well as continuity of government sites, such as the Regen Wurm Lager in Poland and Ordruff, which are these really, really crazy advanced underground locations that I think it was Ordruff even had like its own underground rail system connecting it. It was self-contained. And so Xavier Dorsch was one of these whiz kid engineers for the TOT organization, which

• 43:46Speaker 03

  is similar to the US Army Corps of Engineers. In 1947, with Operation Paperclip, where the US brought over a bunch of Nazi scientists, there was one report from Air Material Command that requested Xavier Dorsch specifically, as well as three other German Nazi technicians for underground plant construction. So I think immediately after post-World War II is when underground or facilities or stiffs immediately began construction, because we plucked some of the Nazis' best and brightest, who had created such intricate structures under Germany to come work for us.

• 44:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And if that stuff does exist, if they are spending money on all this crazy stuff and, you know, they have all these secret programs to recover crafts and to build underground highways and bunkers.

• 44:31Danny Jones?

  That would explain where a lot of that money is going that Catherine Fitz was talking about, those trillions of dollars.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  It's not cheap, right?

• 44:37Danny Jones?

  No, it's definitely not cheap. And, you know, the other question is, who's in charge of it?

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:43Danny Jones?

  Who has control over all of it?

• 44:45Speaker 03

  You know, analyzing the structure of the supposed UFO legacy programs is so difficult to track, right? You know, if there are programs, which of course I believe very strongly there are, that there are DOD contractor, FFRDC, UARC, University Affiliated Research Center programs that deal with the exploitation, recovery, and reverse engineering of non-human technologies. How are these programs structured? What sort of communication is done across the programs? How are the intelligence communities involved? And at the top of this, who is pulling the strings? Because it's not like this is a above-board Air Force project, above-board Navy project, not like a CIA project. All of this is inherently born within SAPs and USAPs, Unacknowledged Special Access Programs, sorry, which Congress and even the executive branch, to a certain degree, doesn't need

• 45:30Speaker 03

  to be read in, yet have the need to know to access these things.

• 45:32Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, that's what Stephen Greer was explaining to me. He was like, he was explaining to me how like these top joint chiefs of staff people can't even get access to some of this stuff. And that's, and the way he was describing it to me is like, imagine if Lockheed or one of these companies like this got so much technology that advanced so much after getting all this black budget, that they've basically gone off the rails so far to where they have more power than like every foreign and domestic military combined, to where they're kind of like a, like a breakaway military superpower that like doesn't have to answer to anybody.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  If like Catherine Austin Fitz says, if there is a, some sort of segment existing within the US military intelligence that has a secret space program, they are, have the asymmetric advantage in every single warfighter capability. If somebody has ARV, Alien Reproduction Vehicles, which I believe they do, of course, they have a tremendous amount of advantages over any traditional human military. I mean, this is something David Grush has talked about as well in his News Nation.

• 46:39Danny Jones?

  Sorry to interrupt. Did you see Elon's tweet today?

• 46:42Speaker 03

  No, what did he tweet?

• 46:43Danny Jones?

  It might have been today or yesterday, but it was, Steven, you can probably pull it up to I got it, I might get it wrong, but he said something to the effect of like, when shit hits the fan, at least we have the spaceships, or something like this.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what's Elon on about, right? He was on Joe Rogan and he's told Joe Rogan he knows there's no aliens because he has an all access pass to DOD programs. That's nonsense. An all access pass to special access program, unacknowledged special access program, excluded program material, no foreign classification, special access required classification, absolute nonsense. You have to have a need to know to read into these programs. What you're talking about with Greer and some of these joint chiefs not being accessed, he's talking about Thomas Wilson from the Wilson Davis memo, who was deputy director of the DIA at the time, I believe. And he tried to gain access to some of these programs and was stonewalled by the Special Access Program Oversight Committee Senior Review Group.

• 47:34Danny Jones?

  So Elon would definitely not have access.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  No, unless he has a specific need to know for specific programs. Like, let's say that some of his Starlink satellites are interfering with the NRO's AI sentient program, right? That, you know, there's some FOIA documents in 2023 show that the NRO sentient program had monitored Tic Tacs over redacted locations. Then Elon might be tangentially briefed on some aspects of that program. But no, unless he has a need to know, there will be no, no read into those programs. That's just, that's just nonsense.

• 48:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, he's launching all those friggin rockets and satellites into space. You would imagine that he's got some sort of peripheral knowledge of something, even if he does, even if he hasn't been read in.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:16Danny Jones?

  Like, he's surrounded by these people and he's surrounded by that guy, Tim, who was in the book, who, you know, who's like, super esoteric and all this stuff and super into all this stuff, visited Chris Bledsoe and all these people. And if that guy's working for him and talking to him, like, how is it possible that he's not, has serious conversations about it, whether it be like a full read in or not, you know?

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I'd wager it's probably, high probability, he's read in on a UFO reality, right? I mean, it seems like, like, here's the thing.

• 48:46Danny Jones?

  It's very suspicious that he just writes it off.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:49Danny Jones?

  And dismisses it like that.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Or jokes about it saying, oh, I'm an alien, something like that.

• 48:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Our good mutual friend Jesse Michaels was just on Joe Rogan and they, Joe and Jesse both said, no, I, I think Elon's BSing a little bit about that. Because it's the world of special access program, controlled access program, special access required use apps. And that stuff gets into some real, real, real strict access. I mean, the Wilson Davis memo is a perfect example. This talks, this recounts a conversation between Admiral Thomas Wilson and Eric Davis in 2002 in the parking lot of EG and G in Nevada. And this harkens back to 1997 where Stephen Greer, Brigadier General Stephen Lovkin, Commander Will Miller of the US Navy and astronaut Edgar Mitchell, engaged in briefings with Admiral Thomas Wilson, which actually did happen.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Like this, even Wilson agrees that this happened, even though he disputes the memo. That they briefed Wilson into the reality of UFO special access programs. And Wilson went, according to the documents, according to the Wilson Davis memo, Wilson went on a big hunt to try to find these special access programs that were working on UFOs. And what he found was that these programs were gate capped by the special access program oversight committee senior review group. And this was set up in 1993, 1994, after a near audit almost exposed some of these programs. But what's really interesting about that is one of the contractors that I, I think are up to their eyeballs in UFO legacy program operations is Northrop Grumman. Creator of the B2, creator of the B21 Spirit bomber. They in 2003 absorbed a company called TRW.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  TRW are the great Richard Dolan theorizes TRW as the contractor behind Zodiac, which was possibly a Romana Clay, a fictional story posted by pseudonym Sedge Masters about a UFO crash retrieval team. TRW also bought up BDM. BDM is of course a company that US Army General of INSCOM Albert Stubblebine, who's really interesting as well.

• 50:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I wanted to ask you about him.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  To go work for in 1985, but TRW in 1993 or 1994, right around the time SAPOC was reorganized to structure the senior review group to gatekeep legacy programs, was sued for a hundred, owed the US government $111 million for overcharging on space programs.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  And so one can't help but to think that this, there might be connections here because Northrop Grumman purchases TRW in 2002, 2003 and immediately pays off that lawsuit for them, which is really interesting. And also there's some general accounting office documents in 1993 that talk about the Navy and the Air Force specifically not complying with SAP regulations. They talk about the Army complying with SAP regulations and that's really interesting because as far as I know from just people I've talked to and conversations I've had, the Army participates in a lot of research, development, test and evaluation of non-human technology, but does it in a very streamlined fashion with contracts, with generals overseeing it and so forth.

• 51:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And it's not super classified, you're saying?

• 51:56Speaker 03

  No, it's very classified, but it has probably more oversight than something like Neuro, something like Air Force, something like Ed if he's really testing reverse engineered triangles out there at Edwards Air Force Base.

• 52:08Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yeah. And another thing we, I think we glossed over in the beginning, which I just remembered was during Jonathan, when Jonathan was sent out to go see that crash, that craft in Peru, wasn't there reports of something flying in and out of the atmosphere like at super high speeds?

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's really interesting because Jonathan said he heard Air Force personnel talking about craft entering and exiting Earth's atmosphere at like Mach 10 plus.

• 52:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  But that's also, there's really intriguing connections there because we also talked about the DSP, the Defense Support Program, working with NEST later in 1997 to monitor Russian space debris over South America and Peru. Well, you know, you remember WikiLeaks, right?

• 52:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  So in WikiLeaks, there was Hillary Clinton campaign manager, John Podesta.

• 53:00Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  And John Podesta had email exchanges with former DoD contractor Bob Fish.

• 53:05Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  And in these contractors, Bob Fish is talking about how the DSP was one of the high-profile programs that track UFOs. And there's old, old stories, I think this is in the 80s, of DSP satellites monitoring UFOs that pass within a mile and a half at 22,000 miles per hour of the satellite. So were these USF personnel working with the DSP? And were they specifically tracking UFOs? Was there some part of laser strike that knew there was UFO activity in tracking this stuff? I mean, 22,000 miles per hour is absolutely bananas.

• 53:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, especially in like the 90s.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and especially making what seems to be intelligent maneuvers.

• 53:44Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 53:45Speaker 03

  Because this, who knows if that's the case? But all Weygant knows is that he was, he and the other grunts were just kind of set out, set out to uncover what seemed to be a crashed friendly or foreign aircraft.

• 53:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:00Speaker 03

  And it wasn't a secret mission. It was just, hey, go secure this LZ, something on our radar crashed. Go see what it was. It wasn't a UFO mission. It wasn't a secret thing. I think the biggest question of that whole operation is who were these guys in black camis and black fatigues that held Jonathan at gunpoint?

• 54:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Are these crash retrieval operators? Are they like a rapid reaction unit? Because if you look at a couple of years from, a couple of years from Jonathan's encounter in 1997, the CIA Director of Science and Technology Deputy Director Carl Wolf began what's called the CIA's Office of Global Access. The Office of Global Access has been accused by myself, by great reporters like Chris Sharp, Christopher Sharp at the Liberation Times, who's incredibly brilliant, of running foreign crash retrieval programs and working with JSOC, Joint Special Operations Command. So one must ask, was this an element of JSOC retrieval teams? Of course, before he went public, Jake Barber, under a pseudonym, wrote the Sentinels of Ether little manuscript where he talked about kind of blue on blue retrieval team action

• 55:01Speaker 03

  and a JSOC unit firing upon US forces that were interested in, you know, craft retrieval and working in UFO programs. So what are these special operators? It's a really interesting question because there's tons of testimony of dedicated rapid reaction units. Or are these local special forces guy, like I hypothesized in the Jonathan video of local seven, US Army 7th Special Forces Green Berets just plugged in and said, hey, you got to go recover this. These guys are pretty severe, you know, pretty highly trained guys. Are they just pulled in on happenstance or are these dedicated teams brought in?

• 55:33Danny Jones?

  The J- what was the guy's name again?

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Jonathan?

• 55:36Danny Jones?

  No, no, the other guy, this guy who was on Jesse, talked about the cyanide stuff.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  Oh, Jake Barber.

• 55:40Danny Jones?

  Jake Barber, yeah, the Jake Barber stuff was apparently corroborated with the Michael Herrera stuff. Because he like, he was, is it true that like, he was going in to try to like?

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Red team.

• 55:52Danny Jones?

  Red, whatever, fucking red team, I hate that word. He was basically trying to like, catch these whistleblowers and like prosecute him for like leaking classified information. And then he saw Michael Herrera talk and then he was basically like, oh my God, I was a part of this.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:08Danny Jones?

  And that's when he allegedly decided to like, join the other side and like, blow the whistle himself.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm so glad that happened. I remember when Jake Barber did the extended video with Ross and mentioned Michael. Because for over a year at that point, I had been sworn to secrecy from Michael, not talking about his quote unquote insider. Because Michael put a, Michael had, you know, kept me, given me the skinny about what had been going on for a long time, including where he was taken by Jake Barber.

• 56:33Danny Jones?

  So he was telling you this stuff like personally?

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Range, yeah. And I knew, I knew Jake Barber by a different name at this point. But yes, it is true that Jake Barber was tasked to infiltrate Greer's camp. And kind of try and maybe set up whistleblowers, I don't know. I think the question needs to be asked, did Greer know this? Was Jake sent in to promise him high level information? And did Greer know about this and willingly let Barber in, knowing that he was an agent for possibly an agency? Because around the same time, 2023, there are multiple Greer whistleblowers who I have found in Greer's DPI archive, his Disclosure Project Initiative archive. And I formed friendship and relationships with, that contacted Greer and always in 2023, they started facing reprisals.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  They started getting threats to their pension. There's one guy in Greer's archive under the number 10892. This guy talks about being on an alien reproduction vehicle retrieval team at Nellis Air Force Base. And kind of witnessing a touchdown of a sunflower extraterrestrial craft. That he cut off contact with Greer because he was threatened with inappropriate, you know, explicit underage content.

• 57:40Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so this stuff all happened around, started really ramping up around 2023. And so did, you know, is there a connection there? One must ask, it's quite perplexing.

• 57:54Danny Jones?

  It really is, man.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  But also, who knows? Greer's operational security is absolutely abhorrent.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  There's no excuse that I should be able to go into his archives and be able to track down some of the whistleblowers. No excuse.

• 58:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:09Speaker 03

  The operational security is so bad, I should not be able to do that. But I'm just glad that it was me who was able to do that with some people and not, you know, somebody else unless agency folks have done that and kind of tracked down whistleblowers and threatened them with their pension. Because some of these high-level whistleblowers have spoken to Greer in the past, because he's really was the only guy to turn to for a long time, right? He ran the disclosure project in 2000.

• 58:33Danny Jones?

  I mean, a lot of people, everybody fucking hates Greer for the most part. I've never heard anyone say anything nice about him except for Jesse Michaels. Jesse Michaels is the one person who's like, "Bro, you gotta give him credit. He's been doing this forever. He's, he's brought forward the most amount of whistleblowers that have divulged the most amount of information. So like, you know, take it for what it's worth. He's, he's done more harm than good." Or, I'm sorry, more good than harm.

• 58:54Speaker 03

  I, I don't have a, I've never spoken to Greer. I don't plan to. He and I don't have a good relationship. He called me an intelligence asset, so I'm not, I'm not too, and he's also hurt many of my friends, so I'm not too high up on Greer. I, I think that he kind of has his own vested interest in a lot of the testimonies he receives. I think he treats whistleblowers that come to him like his whistleblowers.

• 59:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  Instead of their own autonomous people that should be directed to, you know, people like David Grush to disclose to, or Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

• 59:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  So I think it's very complicated. But I, personally, I'm not a huge fan. I don't really like being called an intelligence asset or him hurting my friends.

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• 1:00:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely some personality quirks there.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  But what I would like to see is, you know how he always calls out Lou Elizondo?

• 1:00:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's got this crazy, there's this crazy dynamic between him and Lou Elizondo, and I'd love to hear what you think about that.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't, I don't, I would rather err on the side of like pushing for disclosure instead of like trying to get into like interpersonal problems and so forth, especially a character like Lou who is surrounded by a lot of controversy.

• 1:00:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  I do think, and all I'll say is, I think more questions seem to be asked in documents FOIA about his time at CIFA in the early 2000s.

• 1:01:06Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  The counterintelligence field activity.

• 1:01:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  On a pedestal of like high-level whistleblowers, I put David Grush and then, and then, you know, others. But I don't like to engage in the drama, but I would like to see a debate between those two, Greer and Elizondo. That would be really fantastic and interesting to see.

• 1:01:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Because Greer always calls Elizondo an asset, basically, a disinformation asset.

• 1:01:35Danny Jones?

  Well, don't they have the same lawyer? Isn't Danny Sheehan representing both of them?

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, Sheehan used to work for the Disclosure Project. I don't know if he still does. A lot of people used to work for the Disclosure Project. Leslie Kane, you know, the article of the 2017 New York Times article? She used to work for Stephen Greer back in the early 2000s. And I talked to her at the, I snuck my way in back in November by the UFO hearings into the Disclosure Fund event. And I talked to her a long time. She's brilliant.

• 1:02:01Danny Jones?

  Leslie?

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, she knows quite a bit, but, you know, she even used to work with Greer. And I think back in the day, Greer had a little bit of a different mindset.

• 1:02:07Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  I think maybe some of the problems with him arose more in the future, but that drama between the two is pretty interesting.

• 1:02:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, the when you start to paying too much attention to like the the personalities and like the the UFO celebrities and the drama, you start to get like lost in this whole thing. And I think it's probably intentional.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  And then absolutely.

• 1:02:29Danny Jones?

  The combination of like Twitter, people on Twitter, you know, arguing about who's right and who's wrong. And then you mix in the fact that everyone's trying to sell a book or a documentary or a movie and they're building their careers on this stuff. You know, I'm not innocent of it. I do podcasts. I make money on podcasts about UFOs. So I try not to make it my whole personality and my whole identity as much as I possibly can. But, um, you know, there's just so much fucking bullshit to cover.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  Oh, I know. And especially official nonsense like Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of Arrow, who is fraught with a lot of really weird past. So you're familiar with Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick of Arrow, right? Well, Sean Kirkpatrick has a very checkered past before Arrow and pretty interesting future after Arrow. So Sean Kirkpatrick gets a hold of Arrow in like 2022. Arrow reports to the undersecretary for Defense for Intelligence and Security. This at the time is Ronald Moultrie, who was both on the board for Batel Memorial Institute.

• 1:03:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. I want to talk about that.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. The MITRE Corporation and like a group called the Better Angels, which is funded by the Carlyle Group, which is a huge big money group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Kirkpatrick and Moultrie famously in 2022 kind of debunked the subject of UFOs and so forth. Kirkpatrick used to be a senior research scientist for SAIC, Science Applications, a international corporation, even published with them quite a few times. In 2022, Arrow engaged in contracts under the DOD for Arrow Support Services with a company called Sancorp. Sancorp, one directive is to stop whistleblower leaks.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  And I recently tweeted about this. I have the exact contract number, but Arrow is tweeting, is getting in, getting in contracts with companies that specialize in whistleblower leaks. But I want to focus on what Sean Kirkpatrick did after Arrow. You know, he leaves Arrow in a tirade, oh, nobody likes me, all that, really whiny. And then he goes on to work at Oak Ridge, which is a Department of Energy, FFRDC, Federally Funded Research and Development Center.

• 1:04:35Danny Jones?

  That's where he works now?

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  No, not now. But we can talk more about FFRDCs because when people talk about UFO legacy programs, like joint United States government contractor, like Air Force and Northrop Grumman UFO programs, the missing link there is the FFRDCs. This is stuff like the MITRE Corporation, the Aerospace Corporation, TRIA National Security, run by Batel, Oak Ridge, Sandia National Labs, Lawrence Livermore. But yeah, so Kirkpatrick goes to work at Oak Ridge. He also joins Georgia Tech's, let me see what it's called, because I wrote this down. I can't remember, but he went on as a Georgia Tech Research Institute, UARC, a university affiliated research center, as basically a senior consultant, a senior research consultant.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  A UARC, a university affiliated research center, is the, it is the university counterpart to the FFRDCs, the Federally Funded Research and Development Centers. What these two institutions are, are corporate and university systems that are semi-private, but mostly kind of DoD and government-owned. That's why, one of my big theories is that a lot of these programs operate with the subject matter experts and R and D wizards being these FFRDCs, because they're not fully, it's not like a contractor fully removed from United States government or United States DoD. The FFRDC is a corporation still attached inherently to US government. And we can talk a little bit more about that, because there's a lot of interesting ties, such as like, this gets, can hearken all the way back to Keckburg and

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  Dr. Eric A. Walker, and a lot of that good stuff. But additionally, since 2025, Sean Kirkpatrick, he had formed his own LLC called Nonlinear Solutions. And as of 2025, Nonlinear Solutions is contracting for the MITRE Corporation for US SpaceCom.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  US Space Command. And what's interesting there is in some FOIA documents by a Twitter user named Tagow M. In 2023 Kirkpatrick met with senior officials at US Spacecom to brief them on UFO response and recovery and material transfer. So, you know, what are the very strange connections there? Arrow stinks to high heaven. They also are, Arrow's also a lying organization. You know, they published the Arrow Historical Report, Volume One, nonsensical report. I hope somebody who's read the cleared report, the classified report can tell us why there's no better explanations than that than the public report, because the cleared report I've heard is just as nonsensical. But there's testimonies that are lied about in there. A very specific example is Michael Herrera. We got Michael Herrera's memorandum for record with Arrow, because in the Arrow Historical Report, Volume

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  One, it talks about Michael's testimony. It says like, US Marine encountered an extraterrestrial vehicle in US Special Forces. First of all, Michael never said extraterrestrial vehicle. He always thought this was a manmade vehicle and never said US Special Forces. He just said unidentified Special Forces. And the memorandum for record, that proves that he never said extraterrestrial or US Special Forces. So if Arrow's lying about details that small to make a whistleblower seem a little bit less credible, what else are they lying about in that? And why are they working with whistleblower protection? And why is Sean Kirkpatrick going on to work at, under MITRE and so forth? It's, these are all questions that must be asked. Is Arrow honeypot? Why is Tim Phillips, the Deputy Director of Arrow, badmouthing David Grush on LinkedIn? These are all strange. I talk about the FFRDCs and UARC. Remember when we had the November House hearings? The Senate also had a, some

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  UFO hearings with, with Arrow at the end of 2024. Dr. John Kozloski, now Arrow Director, said Arrow is now working with FFRDCs and UARC. What are they doing with them? It's, these are all interesting questions.

• 1:08:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's interesting to see who doesn't like who and who's saying, what about, you know, these other whistleblowers? You know, I mean, it definitely looks good for David Grush that this guy is, you know, saying bad things about him. Oh, yeah. You know, he's not involved with any, like, obviously, that guy is not, you know, if he's making up and they're manipulating Michael Herrera's testimonies to make him seem more discreditable, there's definitely something there. You know, the more, the more of this stuff I hear, it's just like, it seems like. It seems like all of this stuff just is, all this stuff from sci-fi movies are becoming reality.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Danny Jones?

  You know, like the Jake Barber stuff sounds exactly like Stranger Things.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Speaking of Star Wars, have you heard of the Mark McCandless story?

• 1:08:48Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  And Brad Sorensen.

• 1:08:50Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Okay, this is, in my opinion, one of the greatest alien reproduction vehicle stories of all time, and we can also, I'm sure you've heard the term alien reproduction vehicle.

• 1:08:57Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  And I'm sure you've heard it associated with Greer.

• 1:09:00Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:09:01Speaker 03

  But we can dispel that rumor as well.

• 1:09:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:09:03Speaker 03

  In this story. So this is about November 12th, 1988. This takes place at the Norton Air Force Base show at Norton Air Force Base in California. This is near Edwards Air Force Base, this is near Palm Springs, this is near the Lockheed Skunk Works, this is near USAF Plant 42. You know, a lot of the clandestine aircraft R&D of our nation takes place. Also a region in which I think is a huge network of underground, subterranean facilities, but, you know, we'll talk about that later. But, so Aerospace Illustrator Mark McCandless, who had done a lot of work for Popular Mechanics, various defense contractors, was scheduled to go to the Air Force show with his good friend Brad Sorensen, who was an industrial designer at the time.

• 1:09:46Speaker 03

  Brad Sorensen had been invited to the show from a high-profile client. Doesn't really name this person, but connected with DOD somehow, possibly former undersecretary for Defense, real high-up guy. A couple of days before the airshow, Mark McCandless has to drop out. He needs to do some work for Popular Mechanics, and so Brad goes with, you know, the undersec, if that's what it is. A week later, Mark finally hears from Brad. Brad sounds really, like, beaten up and shaken. Brad sounds really, really, really upset. And Mark finally pries what Brad saw at the airshow. And we'll pause there because historically, this story has been relayed secondhand from Mark McCandless, right? Mark McCandless talks about what Brad sees at the airshow.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  It wasn't until this year, I found a 1990 interview taken to took place two years after this experience with Brad Sorenson and Aviation Week and Space Technology writer, Bill Scott. So this is no longer a secondhand testimony relayed by Mark McCandlish, right? This is something that from Brad Sorenson's own words, because I'm directly referencing that interview. Because that's, that's some of the things people have said about this story in particular, the flux liner, is that no, Mark McCandlish just said it, no, well, Brad Sorenson talked about it in this interview. And some of the details around that are really interesting. So Brad Sorenson went to the Norton Airshow, tons of interesting aircraft, pretty cool. But at some point during the show, the under sector for whoever he was

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  with took him to a classified exhibit. This is either a short flight down to USF Plant 42, or it's in a completely different hangar. And the only reason he gets in is because he's attached to this very high level former DOD guy. The two enter the hangar, and remember, this is all according to Brad Sorenson. And in there, there's a lot of really interesting vehicles. There's like a VTOL, vertical takeoff and landing, little Marines vehicle. There's the losing prototype to the B2, or yeah, B2 stealth bomber. There's something called the Lockheed Pulsar, which is a craft that looks like a pumpkin seed, craft that is, I think powered by, if I'm remembering correctly, scramjet technology, super fast, remotely controlled. It contains 121 nuclear warheads.

• 1:11:53Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's some of the military brass were, were kind of boasting that they could destroy every major city in Russia in under an hour, and so forth. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the Pulsar. And that's drawn by Mark McCandlish. That's drawn by.

• 1:12:06Danny Jones?

  That's wild, bro. Have you seen the, the Cormorant, the Lockheed Cormorant?

• 1:12:11Speaker 03

  Uh, what is that?

• 1:12:12Danny Jones?

  I think Jeremy Riss told me about this.

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Oh, alien scientist.

• 1:12:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Smart cookie.

• 1:12:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, he knows his stuff. He, uh, type in Lockheed Cormorant. That one's crazy looking.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:12:23Danny Jones?

  That thing.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:12:27Danny Jones?

  I think, I mean, these are all obvious, or that one's actually a real photo.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  Is this a undersea UAV?

• 1:12:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, bro. Look at that. Look at that thing.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  It looks like a bird. Of course, the Lockheed Martin stamp on it, iconic.

• 1:12:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right? That thing's crazy. There's just so much bizarre stuff.

• 1:12:43Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:12:43Danny Jones?

  These people are making. But apparently, this thing can go in the water and in the air.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  There's a Northrop, oh, it's transmedium?

• 1:12:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, bro. It flies and it goes under the water. Allegedly, who knows?

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  That is a creepy looking vehicle. It looks like a, looks like a, almost like a bird, but also a little sci-fi, high-techy.

• 1:13:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like, like the more I see this stuff, bro, it just seems like there, there's a, a, a human explanation for so many of this, so much of this.

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  I think so, yeah.

• 1:13:12Danny Jones?

  I had this guy, David Morehouse, on a couple of times, and he, he worked in the Stargate program.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  Oh, cool.

• 1:13:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and he, uh, he was, he came in here with like a whole, uh, presentation of classified military aircraft and reconnaissance balloons and all kinds of things that explain, he basically explained away most of like the most famous UFO sightings ever.

• 1:13:36Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:13:37Danny Jones?

  Including the Phoenix Lights. He showed, uh, us like images of these giant balloons that have lights built in them. And they're, they're like reconnaissance balloons or something like this. And it was the exact shape of the Phoenix Lights flying, same exact size. Just giant black like tube balloons.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:13:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  I, you know, I agree with you that a lot of what's seen is a pretty mundane, prosaic explanation or classified military tech that a lot of it regarding on the, how anomalous it is, how anomalous the sighting is, is probably some, some reverse engineered stuff. Because, so Brad Sorenson sees the Lockheed Pulsar, which seems like the same crazy technology as that Lockheed Cormorant. And then he's brought to the, the final section of the exhibit where there are three flying saucers stationed hovering off the ground, right? These look like a Jell-O mold with half a dome on top. Steve, would you look up flux liner? Uh, two words.

• 1:14:35Speaker 03

  These things are called little bear, mama bear, and papa bear because they're the same craft scaled. One's about 60 feet in length to the largest about 120 feet in length.

• 1:14:47Danny Jones?

  This?

• 1:14:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. You've probably seen that image before, right?

• 1:14:50Danny Jones?

  I've seen this. I've seen the drawing before. Yeah, I've seen that.

• 1:14:52Speaker 03

  That is the flux liner. So there's a like a three star general and contracting personnel there that are showing a videotape of, I think it's the smallest flux liner, kind of bouncing jaggedly over like a desert surface before taking off at rapid speeds, just straight up. So this thing to Brad Sorenson, and Brad Sorenson hated this this design because he talks nonstop in his interview that it looks like it was made by scientists, not by engineers. It looked slobbled together. You know, there was chipped paint on it.

• 1:15:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  Those little bubbles on the outside were synthetic vision systems. Their little, their camera arrays that to kind of create a 3D picture of where the craft going. Those seats are F4 Phantom jump seats. So this craft was like jerry rigged. That little ball handle right there, it's really interesting. And Tom DeLonge's book, I can't, I can't, name's escaping me right now. Secret Machines, he talks about that same control system right there is used to control like the TR3B like reverse engineered triangle. But so these, these craft are powered, I don't really understand the physics, but by like some anti-gravity capacitor array and so forth. And, and the, the skinny that Brad Sorenson is given is that these craft were created

• 1:16:07Speaker 03

  from technology copied found at Roswell. And that I think the, the brass were saying that, you know, we were never supposed to have these craft. We took it from the beans. We've tried to recreate how it works. This is the best we can get it. It's a basically a poor man's representation. This craft has cameras slapped on the outside and like acrylic bubbles you'd find at a Walmart. It has jump seats from a jet. It has a Navy submarine door on the outside.

• 1:16:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:35Speaker 03

  But we have tried to reverse engineer the propulsion systems of these craft as, as well as possible. And these, according to Brad Sorenson, according to what he saw, these, these were copy vehicles taken from non-human intelligence at Roswell.

• 1:16:49Danny Jones?

  What year was this again?

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  1988.

• 1:16:50Danny Jones?

  1988.

• 1:16:51Speaker 03

  But what's interesting here is that this craft right here, Steve, can you look up? 1967 Harvey Harvey Williams in 1967 you you you staff captain air force captain Harvey Williams about 20 12,000 to 20,000 feet over Provo Utah captured an image of a flying saucer that looks exactly like one of these but it looks like an evolution of the flux liner because because it has larger acrylic bubbles and as time passes you think camera technology size would would decrease and you can kind of rethink the acrylic bubbles but this is the this is the story of the flux liner and Mark McCandlish would draw what Brad told him because Brad didn't want anything to do with this story so Mark McCandlish would draw this he would take this around he would

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  present it at Greer's Disclosure Project he would talk uh yes that's the first image right there 1966 Provo Utah okay right there that's taken by you staff captain if it's not Harvey Williams I'm butchering this badly there's a much higher definition yeah that looks like

• 1:17:50Danny Jones?

  it same shape

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  yeah so Mark McCandlish would would you know create a line art drawing of this and he would take it all around talk to people and apparently he met other people like USF veteran Kent Sellen who saw the same craft at Edwards Air Force Base and I think 1972 I want to say I'm trying to remember correctly but Mark McCandlish would eventually in 2014 create a documentary with a filmmaker named James Allen about you know zero-point energy systems the flux liner alien reproduction vehicles about less than three months before the interview is to be before the documentary is to be released James Allen gets struck with a very rare and aggressive form of cancer and dies within three months and Mark McCandlish ordered an autopsy report on him so

• 1:18:33Speaker 03

  did the editor of the documentary that I've talked to and James Allen was found to have heavy metal poisoning in his autopsy report so it's weird because in this documentary the two James Allen and Mark McCandlish talk all about you know various energy systems various zero-point energy systems where the inventors have mysteriously died gone missing like throw themselves out of a window and so James Allen right before that documentary is released goes you know he dies as well in 2020 Mark McCandlish was found with a self-inflicted gunshot Wound to the head.

• 1:19:07Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  And he said, and maybe it was 2022, but he said that in an interview shortly before in 2020, that he slept with a pillow under his pillow because he was also afraid of what was going to happen to him.

• 1:19:18Danny Jones?

  A pillow under his pillow?

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, a pistol under his pillow.

• 1:19:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, a pistol under his pillow.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sorry. And, you know, there's some rumors, according to some close sources of Mark McCandlish, that he was going to testify to Senator Rubio shortly before his death. So, but this also gets really interesting because this was relayed by Mark McCandlish for the better part of 30 years, right? I found the original interview with Brad Sorenson and Bill Scott from Aviation Week and Space Technology. Once I find that and put up a video of the flux liner, I get a call from a UFO researcher, very well-known guy, very respected, great on crash retrieval, but he's also really close with Greer, like really good buddies with Greer. And he calls me and said, where did you find that interview? Like, that's not supposed to be public. You should take that down. Why isn't that supposed to be public?

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  Because this story was always secondhand with Mark McCandlish, not Brad Sorenson. And what's weirder is I-

• 1:20:08Danny Jones?

  One of Greer's close friends is a researcher, and why did he tell you it should be taken down?

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  He said it's internal.

• 1:20:15Danny Jones?

  Internal for who?

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. Why? Because I messaged Brad Sorenson. I emailed.

• 1:20:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  And the amount of death threats that man gave me is unlimited.

• 1:20:26Danny Jones?

  What man?

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  Brad Sorenson.

• 1:20:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  Say goodbye to you and your family. You'll never see it coming. Mark was a stupid, dramatic fool. You're going to end up the same way he did. And then I kept pushing I, because there was some little inkling that I thought maybe Brad, there's more than meets the eye to Brad here. And so Brad kind of gave me a little bit of the implication. He may have actually like worked on such a craft, saying stuff like I create, I helped create what I saw and stuff like that. It's an incredibly intriguing case, the flux liner. Incredibly intriguing. And that's just one instance of a alien reproduction vehicle. There's another really interesting thing. Like, everybody thinks about the TR-3B triangle, right? Like the the famous triangle from Edgar Fouchet, it's got the three, four lights on the bottom, the big red light, and then three lights on the kind of the exterior of the triangle.

• 1:21:14Danny Jones?

  I think I know what you're talking about.

• 1:21:15Speaker 03

  Well, so.

• 1:21:16Danny Jones?

  See, you can find a picture of it, Steve, just to make sure.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  There's a forensic artist named Bill McDonald. He worked with, yeah, just like the classic triangle, the Sal Payes patents.

• 1:21:26Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  There, Bill McDonald worked with Ryan and Dr. Robert Wood of McDonald Douglas, who are some, some great investigators into the Majestic Twelve documents. And so he created all sorts of art and all sorts of UFO art, worked with various films to create craft and so forth. In 1992, in Antelope Valley, California, kind of the aerospace hub of the United States, he met with two Lockheed and two Northrop engineers. And these guys worked at the Lockheed Martin-Hellendale radar cross-section facility and the Northrop-Tehan radar cross-section facilities. Now, these two places are very infamous in UFO lore. And these engineers came together, two from Lockheed, two from Northrop, to illustrate the reverse engineered craft they had been working on, that they

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  are so tired of the secrecy around. So, Bill McDonald, of course, drew that craft. It's really interesting. Steve, can you look up a Tehachapi triangle, T E H A, Teha, C H A P I triangle? And that, you know, I've pressed Bill McDonald for the sources on this subject as well for this triangular craft, and he won't give them up. That's it. Yeah, first, first one right there. But what's interesting here is, are you a fan of the X-Files?

• 1:22:35Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  Okay, so, is season one, episode one of the X-Files, not the pilot, but it's the episode called Deep Throat. It's about Mulder. He goes to an air force base and to investigate a test pilot that's gone missing and encounters this craft. Chris Carter and John D'Souza, the FBI agent on which the first season of the X-Files was based, went up to Bill McDonald and contracted him to use, to use that design for the, the X-Files episode, which I found really interesting, really interesting. So I'd like to press more into that, because that's another possible example of an alien reproduction vehicle. You know, there's the triangles, there's the saucers, possibly what Michael Herrera saw, just a ton, ton of.

• 1:23:12Danny Jones?

  There's so much overlap in movie and television and real life, bro. It's crazy.

• 1:23:17Speaker 03

  It's like in a, in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there's large crates and boxes of materials from TRW and Lockheed Martin that Steven Spielberg put in there. How interesting is that?

• 1:23:27Danny Jones?

  Didn't he also use the same hand scanner that Bob Lazar talked about?

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's really, really intriguing. And I think. Oh gosh, who was it? Who was it recently? Steven Spielberg even said that he showed like ET to some high up military officials who kind of commented how ET and like the subject of extraterrestrials was really closely related to his film and so forth. Really intriguing. Steven Spielberg seems to be pretty tapped in. He's working on another kind of UFO film lately.

• 1:23:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I heard about that. I don't I don't know exactly what what it was about, though. It's been a while since I heard about it. Um, yeah, bro. So the Jake Barber stuff, like the psionic stuff, um, what do you make of all that?

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  It's it's so it's so interesting, but I was kind of of the mind that before you introduce subjects like psionics, which requires a lot of of understanding and faith into like remote viewing, um, psy research, which, you know, the Stargate program and SAIC did a heck of a lot into. But I think before that was introduced, there needs to be a more firm understanding of crash retrieval and reverse engineering.

• 1:24:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:36Speaker 03

  Because the Jake Barber psionics at the range, the whole MO was to use psionics to bring in these craft and either force them to land or use some directed energy weapons to blast them out of the sky.

• 1:24:47Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Sounds totally ridiculous.

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  Yes, before you ask an uninitiated viewer to believe that, you got to first say, hey, there are UFOs here. They're not piloted by humans. Sometimes they crash. Sometimes they're shot down and we retrieve them.

• 1:24:59Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:00Speaker 03

  But the the subject of psy, I would still be pretty keen to see a demonstration of psionics. I've I've never seen it. So it's still it's still a little bit tough for me to wrap my head around. What do you think?

• 1:25:12Danny Jones?

  No, I don't know. I had never heard about it before the Jake Barber stuff, but it does like the the fact like what Michael Herrera and Jake Barber were talking about with allegedly going to this earthquake disaster zone.

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:25Danny Jones?

  And trying to capture like kids.

• 1:25:29Danny Jones?

  With like left-handed kids and first of all, they're from like this remote part of the world. They're not really connected from tech to technology. And they're, they're young. So like, there's definitely something to be said. Like we were talking about on the phone yesterday, I think I was telling you, like, like, children seem to be more tapped into this, like, extra invisible sense.

• 1:25:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:49Danny Jones?

  That, that we lose as we grow up, you know, similar to like cats and dogs can like, can sense different energies, you know, in the room. It's a, it's similar to like Joe Rogan's fart hypothesis. Have you heard that?

• 1:26:00Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:26:01Danny Jones?

  Basically, like if somebody, if somebody farts and you didn't have the sense of smell or a nose, you'd just be sitting in their fart and you would have absolutely no idea.

• 1:26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:08Danny Jones?

  So how many other things exist all around us that we don't have the senses to detect?

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:26:12Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  Right. And, you know, the subject of psionics is nothing new. You can look back to the claims of Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso, who of course, he's infamous for the book, The Day After Roswell, which has a bunch of added nonsense from co-writer Bill Burns. If you want to actually understand Corso's story, you should read his manuscript, The Day After Roswell. But he even talks about some of the technologies leveraged and utilized from the Roswell craft specifically, was systems to try and control ICBM missiles with brainwaves. So all the way back with Corso in 1960 to 1962, he, you know, if, if what he's talking about under the Foreign Technology Division is legit, there, there

• 1:26:52Speaker 03

  were already plans to try and adapt, you know, mind control, mind machine interfaces. Really interesting. It's, it's perplexing that he says that because of course psionics.

• 1:27:03Danny Jones?

  Did he expand on that at all?

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  No, it's a short section and I'll, I'll send it to you. I'm, I'm, I think I told you and I forgot to do it. He, he just talked about trying to use brainwaves.

• 1:27:13Danny Jones?

  Brainwave?

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  Brainwaves to control ICBMs. And if you look at the old, old files of Leonard Stringfield, he talks multiple times about headband transceivers being found in crashed UFOs that control the craft. So it's, it's, it's nothing new. I, I just think that a lot of the time with like,

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  you really got to slow down and demonstrate the capabilities of this, of this first because I know with Skywatchers, there's still gray area about what they're summoning, right? Like each YouTube video creates a lot of discourse of, of, you know, the, the pinpricks of light. Are they birds? Are they balloons? Or are they extraterrestrial or non-human craft? I think a very firm demonstration needs to be made and then you can kind of bring in some of the baggage with that because psionics is a really interesting eh, and topic with a lot of baggage. Cause I know, I think it was Greer that talked about like left-handed and gay people.

• 1:27:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, left-handed and gay people, right. Young.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, young as well. Kids from the gate programs, the gifted and talented education programs. And I, I would like to-

• 1:28:10Danny Jones?

  And allegedly they were kept at the spot and like, they were held there and fed a specific diet?

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:16Danny Jones?

  And like given certain medications, something like this?

• 1:28:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. One of the Skywatchers top psionic guys is a guy named, uh, I can't remember his name. It's escaped me right now, but he's told me he was in the, the gate program as a child and now he's a Skywatcher psionic. What's interesting about his case is he said while he was in the gate program, one time as a young kid, a bunch of eggheads and, uh, lab coats, brought in a briefcase and opened it up and it was a, like a metallic swirling sphere in there, almost like a palantir and told to just kind of look into it and react to it. Uh, the description of that sphere is almost identical to a, a witness that Jesse and I both covered, uh, Randy Anderson, who was a former US Army Green Beret who 2013 to 2015 was at the Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane in Indiana, a really austere weapons facility. And he was taken underground by a

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  contractor because he was one of, uh, two guys in the Green Beret unit with, um, you know, high clearance levels for a weapons training course.

• 1:29:10Danny Jones?

  I remember this interview.

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he was, uh, shown something called the Offworld Technologies Division and a piece of technology that was, uh, by all intents and purposes, a identical sphere to what this Skywatcher asset described that reacted to human consciousness.

• 1:29:24Danny Jones?

  There's, there's so much crazy stuff, dude. It's almost impossible to track it all. And like, again, when it comes, when, when you have people like that Jake guy coming out and like, talking about this psionic stuff and like, it always is fishy to me when people talk in these absolutisms and terms as if like they know exactly what's happening, you know?

• 1:29:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Danny Jones?

  And, uh, and I don't know, it's, it's almost like, it's just so difficult to navigate this stuff.

• 1:29:50Danny Jones?

  That it's like, you know, I like to check out every once in a while and just be like, zoom out on all this stuff, take a breath, take a breather. And then, you know, see where it goes, see where it goes because it's, it's a, it's overbearing, man. It's so much to, to, to handle and digest.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  I don't blame you because there's, there's so much discourse, there's so much infighting. There's so much interfactionality, like, there's probably disclosure advocates with varying interests and how disclosure plays out. You know, maybe there's a difference in what like Lou Elizondo wants versus what Eric Davis wants at the end of the day for disclosure and how these things are brought about. What does the Navy do? What does the Air Force do? What does the Army do in terms of UFO crash retrieval reverse engineering? How siloed are the programs? Is the Navy working on an ARV and the Army working on an ARV? Both the same program, but have no cross communication. What role does the, do the intelligence agencies play? How does the neuro hop in? How does the NSA hop in?

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  How do these programs work? How are they funded? That's a big, that's a really interesting question as well, that I think there's a lot of funding mechanisms for such programs. Like back in the eighties, the Navy was being overcharged by the Grumman Corporation and some other corporations. They were being charged like six hundred, four hundred to six hundred dollars for ashtrays and like F-14s. And so there's just-

• 1:31:05Danny Jones?

  Ashtrays and F-14s.

• 1:31:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, ashtrays and F-14s. And that brings me back to that guy I told you about, Ed, Ed at Edwards Air Force Base. After he was done at Edwards, he went on to work at the Pentagon for the Air Force Research Development, Test and Evaluation Panel Chain. He said in, in two separate years, 34 billion and then 40 billion dollars went missing from the Air Force and non-transfer of authority funds, just completely wiped off the books. You know, I've also been privy to conversations with individuals who have seen cash transactions. Huge pallets of cash transacted for UFO legacy programs. And then of course you have Catherine Austin Fitz, who talks about really creative funding from the DOD and housing and urban development. And then you got a great story from SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation.

• 1:31:50Speaker 03

  And I'd, I'd love to tell you a really, really intriguing story about SAIC's kind of contract work, if you don't mind.

• 1:31:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  So. SAIC, first of all, has been in some hot water for overcharging like the NSA, like five to seven billion dollars for the Trailblazer program, which was supposed to be like a large-scale spying software. Right after 9/11, that was completely, that completely didn't work. But the NSA was fraud, was fraudulently charged by SAIC for all of this money. SAIC has enormous contracts, many of which don't make any sense, like a recent $280 million contract with Sandy and National Labs, which is a Department of Energy FFRDC for IT consolidation work. How does IT work? You know, take $280 million. Of course, with SAIC, we've talked about Kirkpatrick.

• 1:32:42Speaker 03

  SAIC has insane ties to the Wilson Davis memo. SAIC has ties to Director of Neuro Bobby Ray Enman. But in 1992, there, so there's a whistleblower from SAIC. Her name's Denise McKenzie. And she actually disclosed in, I think, 2000. And so her story goes, in 1992, she was working at a fabric store at a mall in La Jolla, San Diego. A new part-time girl named Sophia starts working with her. Sophia says, hey, come work for this contractor. You know, it better work. Yeah. And so she shows up expecting an interview at a large contractor. She's hired on the spot at a massive campus that is SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation, La Jolla. She's not even really told what to do besides administrative work on a computer.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  And that girl who recruited her, Sophia, didn't show up for like another three or four weeks. So she's just sitting there and having no idea what to do on the job. And eventually, a bunch of letters come in while she's working at SAIC that are basically asking for contract updates on DoD and other contractor contracts. These are massive contracts, some in hundreds of million dollars, some millions of dollars, some tens of millions of dollars. And she's working in the building where SAIC does all sorts of classified chemical and biological research. Really interesting biochem facility there that probably connects with Batel Memorial Institute and Doug Way proving ground. And so she goes to her superiors because she wants to kind of impress them and says, "What, you know, what do I, what do I do with these contracts?"

• 1:34:07Speaker 03

  The superior says, I think the superior right here is named Stanley Stewart that I've actually tried to track down, said, "Oh, just say we're working on it." So she, being a new employee, doesn't really want to just say, "We're working on it," on massive DOD contracts. So she goes in the file room to find these contract numbers, to find the contracts, to find the programs. And in each file for every single program, all that's in there is just a paper that says, "We're working on it," the same file updates. So the SAIC is undergoing enormous contracts for DOD and other contractors with no movement on them. Nothing's being done, no progress reports, no technical reports, nothing like that. So they're just empty contracts. That money can be funneled, like Catherine Austin Fitz says, specifically mentioning

• 1:34:52Speaker 03

  SAIC into the black budget. So she, she goes and tells Sophia, the woman that recruited her eventually, and Sophia freaks out, she gets reprimanded by her superiors, all the files are taken away, she's harassed by one of the bosses, and she eventually quits when she almost chokes on some food and like, nobody helps her. But so later on down the line, she's interested to search for Sophia, because she never saw Sophia again. In the early days of the internet, she finds Sophia's picture, same first name, different last name, on a CIA operatives database. But the weird thing is that this Sophia girl that recruited her to work at SAIC, remember this took place in 1992, apparently died in 1998. All sorts of weird things going on there with SAIC.

• 1:35:33Speaker 03

  And 1992 is also when SAIC took all, took over the Stargate program from SRI in the CIA. SAIC took over that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. SAIC, huge, huge into like telepathy, telekinesis, they have lots of reports on it using human subjects for such things. And I guess the research was carried on and taken seriously because as recently as 2013, the Office of Naval Research published a study, like a revolutionary study on human sixth sense, using like precognition in humans almost to to kind of get a jump on things. So really, really weird discussion of contracts and like human remote viewing at SAIC.

• 1:36:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're involved in so much weird shit, man. I told you the first time I heard about it when I was reading the article all about the creation of Google, how that basically, Google was incubated by like DARPA and the CIA and all this stuff, basically going and visiting Sergey Brin at Stanford and, you know, doing like, uh, status updates every month on what they were doing and how they were doing. I think they got the page rank system directly from DARPA, which is strange. But, you know, you know, if you just understand that history of of how it was, how Google was created and who they were working with and look at where we're at now with all the stuff that's going on, you know, how they're basically trying to

• 1:36:50Danny Jones?

  like influence the narrative of the public and censor certain speech and boost other speech and using, you know, now, you know, Google basically creates everything from phones to security systems to every application and appliance. Soon they're going to be making your fucking washer and dryer, you know, that and it's going to fucking talk to you. So it's just like, okay, this company that was created by like the deep state essentially is now creating all these appliances and software that are integrated into virtually every aspect of your life. And, you know, you rely and most people, a lot of people rely on this company to make a living because they basically own the internet, you know?

• 1:37:35Danny Jones?

  That's just, I don't know where that goes, man, but I can't imagine it's anywhere good.

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  It's a it's a terrifying reality, especially when companies like Google, when companies like SAIC that basically helped create the internet.

• 1:37:46Danny Jones?

  Can work hand in hand.

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, can influence such extreme thought narratives. I mean, SAIC themselves, they were, they chaired the the panel that testified to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of Mass destruction and thus the United States needed to invade Iraq. And when no weapons of mass destruction were found, they chaired the same panel that said, we investigated ourselves and we did nothing wrong. Absolving the government, the intelligence agencies and SAIC of any involvement. So they can really influence public perception in a massive way. Even like DOD, high level perception and and kind of government perception.

• 1:38:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, it's crazy. But like, going back to what we were, we were, we were discussing like, um. You know, some of these private contractors, we talked a lot about like the DOE, which is interesting because, you know. Annie Jacobson lays it out really well in her first book, uh, Air 51 and her most recent book about nuclear war. She talks a lot about the Department of Energy. Which, from what I understand is. You might know more about this than I do, but the DOE, the Department of Energy essentially is like. The fourth, fifth, or sixth name change from the Manhattan Project.

• 1:38:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Danny Jones?

  It was the Manhattan Project and they changed the name to something else, Atomic Energy Commission, something else. And now the Manhattan Project is basically, it's the same thing as the DOE. It's the same fucking organization.

• 1:39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Danny Jones?

  Which is crazy to think about. And that, that's the same company that put out, puts out regulations. Of like what types of light bulbs were allowed to use or sell.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  Did, I mean, the DOE is truly an enormous and amorphous blob. They even have their own like. Like, they even have their own armed teams called SRT, Special Response Team, that transfer like nuclear radiological materials across the continental United States. The DOE has their hand in almost every pie. I mean, the DOE is born from the granddaddy, the Atomic Energy Commission, that has. Just tremendous ties to, to possible UFO programs, just like we talked about the 1954 Atomic Energy Act. That is literally name dropped in the UAPDA and literally said, hey.

• 1:39:50Speaker 03

  UFO materials, information, et cetera, are hidden within restricted data within transclassified foreign nuclear information. Under the Atomic Energy Commission. So the, the DOE just has their hand in so many pies and the DOE also sponsors so many federally funded research and development centers. Like Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Sandia National Labs, Oak Ridge, et cetera, where, you know, I have some degree of, of confidence that there are. Reverse engineering and retrieval operations, you know, being conducted at such locations.

• 1:40:20Danny Jones?

  And even the DOE, what they were doing in, um, I think it was the, like the sixties or seventies when they were like detonating subterranean nukes and shit. Like working with these oil companies, trying to like basically, uh, frac oil using nuclear weapons. It's just insane. Like, like you said, all the, all the, uh, all the pies they have their hands in, bro.

• 1:40:41Speaker 03

  Whenever you investigate a crash retrieval story, or like a craft being housed, any testimony, you can always do a couple of extra steps of research and find out some connection to the DOE.

• 1:40:51Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:51Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a very, very scary organization. And, you know, even in some high profile whistleblower testimony, like Edgar Fouchet, who talked about the TR3B reverse engineered alien reproduction vehicle. He directly said stuff like the Lawrence Livermore National Labs and Sandy National Labs, two DOE FFRDCs, uh, reverse engineered the propulsion devices for the TR3B.

• 1:41:13Danny Jones?

  And what about Batel? Where does Batel fit in all that stuff?

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  Batel, Batel's pretty interesting. So Batel Memorial Institute, I think you and Jesse talked about it. Not only do they have ties to Ronald Moultrie, who was, uh, under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, who air reported to. But so I, I think you guys talked about this too, nittinol, nightenol, that.

• 1:41:33Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:41:34Speaker 03

  You know, shape memory alloys. Batel was kind of doing some, some secret projects on that wasn't really declassified into the early sixties when nittinol was like accidentally discovered. Uh, Batel Memorial Institute also ran something called Project Stork, which was actually a hidden UFO program, parallel to Blue Book. You know, Project Blue Book, 1952 to 1969. Why does Batel have their own really secretive UFO program? Uh, back in the same time as Blue Book. There's also a, I know of an individual that I did a video on. This, this took place at Dougway Proving Ground at the West Desert Test Center, which is Dougway Proving Ground's major range test facility base where. In the Avery area of Dougway, which is, you know, an air force, pretty, pretty extensive contractor

• 1:42:18Speaker 03

  location, he went into a building while doing contracting work there and saw a craft. And this craft was hovering off the ground and it was being worked on by, by various individuals. Well, the West Desert Test Center, which specializes in chemical and biological work. If you look at the history of people who have run the West Desert Test Center, it's always former Batel guys, always. Batel also runs multiple FFRDCs like the, out near Fort Detrick, Maryland, and that kind of region, which has really high profile biological and chemical work, that there's some rumors that that's where some of the bodies of extraterrestrials or non-human intelligence are stored. Batel also really smartly, Batel kind of set the playbook by forming something called Triad National Security. It was Batel, a university and another organization that formed like their own company to manage some DOE labs

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  for FFRDCs. I'm trying to think which exactly here, but once Batel did that, then companies like SAIC started doing that with EG and G, SAIC started doing that with Northrop, SAIC started doing that with Mentum, which recently whistleblower Matthew Brown has said operates hangars that hold reverse engineer technology at Pax River in Virginia. So Batel has always, at least to me, seems like a, almost, almost like a chemical and biological subject matter expert. There's, there's one of those nickel titanium alloy studies from Batel that was, you know, I can't remember the date, declassified, but it was by a man named, I-

• 1:43:39Danny Jones?

  Was this the Knight and All stuff?

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I, is it Edward? It's not Howard Cross, it's Edward something, but it's a name, it's a name that worked on one of the, you know, investigating these alloys. And this same individual, I don't know why his name is slipping for me, I just talked about it with Jesse, but on, late in his life in 1992, to move on, to move on researcher Irene Scott, this guy disclosed to her that he worked on metals that were leveraged from non-human intelligence craft that had crashed. So you have your own Batel guy who worked on those reports saying that stuff came from flying saucers, essentially.

• 1:44:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I remember Jeremy Riss, he, he went to one of the big hearings, I think it was last year and he like, you know, he, he's crazy. He was there in like live streams, like talking to people, pulling people aside. And he was interviewing, I forget who it was, it was one, it was some big wig, it was a woman and she was like, uh, I think she was a congresswoman. And he was asking her about, uh, Patel. And she goes, excuse me, what? He goes, Patel Memorial Institute? She's like, uh, how do you, what's, I've never heard of that. And he was like, he was like, okay, it's spelled this, go to this website, go, I really need to look into that. Thank you for, for, I'm gonna look into them. Thank you. It's just like, you know, I don't know. It seems like nobody knows what's going on with all this stuff.

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and how, how projects and expertise may be delegated to different contractors. I mean, I, I think Patel has their hands all over this stuff as, as we've seen with the Knight and all nickel titanium alloy studies and, and project stork. It, Patel is just, is just strange. I think, so if I, if I had to wager, like if I had to say the biggest corporations that have their hand in this stuff, it would be Patel, it would be SAIC, it'd be Northrop Grumman, it would be Latos, which SAIC kind of spun off from in 2013 because SAIC got too big and had too many contracts. It would be Raytheon, uh, Boeing, Booze Allen Hamilton, maybe L3, L3, yeah, L3 Harris. And yeah, probably some of the biggest, then FFRDC is,

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  I'd say the MITRE Corporation. I, I have quite a, a bit of, of knowledge on the MITRE Corporation, the RAND Corporation, uh, the Aerospace Corporation. Here's what's pretty interesting. The Aerospace Corporation.

• 1:45:53Danny Jones?

  There's so fucking many.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  There's so many. All the DOE Labs, too, Tri National Security, Oak Ridge, the Center for Naval Analysis, Institute for Defense Analysis. And then you got the UARC, Georgia Tech, Pennsylvania State University, which is really, really interesting, uh, which we'll talk about in a second. But the, so the RAND Corporation was built out of USAF Project RAND, which was kind of involved with underground constructions. But the Aerospace Corporation, as well as the MITRE Corporation, as well as BDM, which is a contractor, not an FFRDC, were all started between 1959 and 1960. The exact date that, you know, Philip J. Corso says that, you know, alien technology was starting to be seeded into the military and public. And that began. So it's just a really interesting lineup of dates and including Eric Davis said to me, he didn't name drop it specifically, but the Aerospace Corporation

• 1:46:38Speaker 03

  is the one FFRDC he knew of that engages with this stuff. And on the on the UARC level, the university affiliated research center, you have stuff like the Applied Physics Laboratory or Applied Research Laboratory names escaping me from Penn State University. This was started by Dr. Eric A. Walker. Dr. Eric A. Walker is one of the most underrepresented figures in all of UFO, in my opinion. Back in 1950, I consultant to the Defense Research Science Board or the R and D Board, Robert Sarbacher, I'm forgetting his official title, but brilliant physicist, brilliant guy. Jesse talks about him all the time. He met with a Canadian radio engineer, Wilbert B. Smith, and said some pretty outstanding

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  statements such as flying saucers exist, their modus operandi is unknown, but efforts to kind of understand them, reverse engineer them are headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush, and the matter is in top secret to the point it's classified two points higher than the H-bomb. And so this made its way into an official Canadian Department of Transport memo that Wilbert Smith then created two UFO projects for Canada, Project Magnet and Project Second Story. But UFO researchers like Henri Azadehel and William Steinman would interview Robert Sarbacher, and he would name one person that was really intimately involved with UFO crash retrieval operations, Dr. Eric A. Walker. And so eventually, Dr. Eric A. Walker was

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  contacted by the same researchers, William Steinman and so forth. Dr. Eric A. Walker not only admitted he was at the 1965 Kecksburg, Pennsylvania crash, not only admitted that he knew about the Majestic Twelve, but also said one of the most interesting quotes in all the subject. When asked about how to gain access into these programs, he said something along the lines of, what do you know about ESP, extrasensory perception? Unless you know about ESP, you would never be involved in these programs. And this was 1982, he said that. So Eric A. Walker, who started the Applied Research Laboratory, Pennsylvania's UARC, is is one of the most underrepresented and entwined guys in kind of UFO lore of all time. Because this guy said he was at the 65 Kecksburg crash, which is a great case, too.

• 1:48:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it seems the ESP remote viewing stuff seems to be like the at the foundation of all of this stuff, man. And it's also like the convenient thing about it is it's the most ridiculous sounding thing of all of it. People can people can like comprehend or like swallow the idea of anti-gravity or like aircraft that aerospace companies are making. But as soon as you start saying like reading minds or like a sixth sense and controlling shit with your mind, people are just like bullshit. Like, there's no fucking way, which is super, if it is legit, which it makes it super convenient.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you know, I think that I do think because I've never seen demonstrations of remote viewing or Psy or Psionics, this stuff work. I I am I'm of the mind also, like many of the skeptics, I think there should be demonstrations of such a thing. I'd like to see demonstrations of remote viewing of Psionics and stuff because just like you and just like a lot of the public, that is the hardest part for me to wrap my head around.

• 1:49:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:47Speaker 03

  Technological craft being shot down by the Strategic Defense Initiative, sure. That's the there's a lot there to digest and research, but stuff like Psionics and the consciousness studies, I I need to see to see more to to understand. It's so foreign to me.

• 1:50:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Have you seen that movie Mirage Man?

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, about Doty.

• 1:50:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's a really good movie.

• 1:50:08Danny Jones?

  And it's just like that that that movie really made me like more skeptical than ever about everything. You know, I don't I don't know how accurate that movie is, but it was, you know, it shows you just how much effort that all these companies and agencies are willing to go for go through to fuck with people and scramble people's brains and manipulate information and like paint a false narrative.

• 1:50:33Danny Jones?

  And, you know, that that is when I started to look at some of these whistleblowers, you know, like, hmm, is this guy legit?

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  Who do you look at skeptically?

• 1:50:41Danny Jones?

  How do I know if I want to trust this guy?

• 1:50:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:50:43Danny Jones?

  Uh, I mean, a lot of them, man, I don't know. I don't know if I. I mean, Grush seems pretty legit.

• 1:50:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:50:49Danny Jones?

  But, um, you know, there's just, there's so many of them. And, you know, some of the guys like, I think like the guy that, that Jesse interviewed, the, um, I think it was a marine, you mentioned him earlier.

• 1:50:59Speaker 03

  Michael.

• 1:51:00Danny Jones?

  Michael, he was the guy who went down into the base and they were like, brought through all these, uh, these like compartments and they finally got to this area where there was this like crazy thing. He, he explains this crap.

• 1:51:10Speaker 03

  Randy, Randy, Randy, Randy.

• 1:51:12Danny Jones?

  I think people like them, you know, it's, it's, uh, people that like aren't selling anything and that seem to be disconnected from it. They seem to be the most credible and they're like, kind of like one-off interesting things. But, you know, when you have, like, I, I don't know about the Jake Barber stuff.

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:51:30Danny Jones?

  I don't know if I can, if I buy that, you know, it's, uh, it's just like, if they're, if they were going to the extent to literally, put NSA people in a guy's house and beam fake information into his house and try to confuse him and tell him that some alien civilization is on their way to Earth because their planet ran out of water and they're coming here to take over in about 15 years. If they're willing to go to that extent and send some guy into a mental hospital just to, uh, just to make sure nobody believes anything he says about seeing these aircrafts flying over the mountains. Imagine what the hell they're doing 60 years later.

• 1:52:06Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:52:07Danny Jones?

  It's almost incomprehensible, especially when you add the internet and social media into it. It's like, Jesus Christ, man. Like, how are we ever gonna get to the bottom of any of this stuff?

• 1:52:16Speaker 03

  Well, specifically, Doty has been rearing his head recently. He was on some live stream where he said that.

• 1:52:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and that's, he's all over Twitter, like, like, that's so weird.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  He said that he was recruited in 2019 or something to work alongside Lou Elizondo to spread disinfo for Space Force. But then he came out and said that that was AI and then he said, no, it wasn't AI, was talking about something else. So Doty's always still kind of flirting around. And then there's, of course, just the other day, that new Wall Street Journal, um, article. Did, did you see that? It's a Sean Kirkpatrick love letter that says, "We solved all the UFO program. All, everything was just an Air Force hazing ritual." That new, new signees to various Air Force programs when developing stealth technology would be shown pictures of flying saucers, made to sign an NDA and told, "Oh, we have secret alien technology and bloody, bloody blahs."

• 1:53:02Danny Jones?

  Is this the Wall Street Journal thing that like talks shit about Lou Elzondo? Cause I saw something on Twitter this morning about like some sort of Wall Street Journal article.

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, no, Lou responded to that.

• 1:53:09Danny Jones?

  That, oh, okay. That same article you're talking about?

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the article talks about how like, uh, the 1967 Malmstrom Air Force Base incident was just like a large EMP device that was brought up to the front gate of Malmstrom AFB, 60 feet in the air and basically took a bunch of Minutemen missile operators by surprise, turning off the ICBMs. Just, uh, so there's, there's, unfortunately with this subject, there's disinformation and nonsense and difficult gates to check and difficult probabilities to assess at every single corner. It's such a hard field to navigate because there has been sophisticated disinformation campaigns since the 1950s. I mean, 1953, right after the sightings of UFOs over Washington DC, there was something called the Robertson Panel. The Robertson Panel was supposed to investigate UFOs, but had already had a pre-written conclusion

• 1:53:56Speaker 03

  to dissell public worry about UFOs and say, "Everything was okay. It's just, there's no problem here. There's nothing to see here." Same with the 1969 Condon Committee. And then in the 1960s, you have things like Air Force Regulation 200-2, which restricted civilian and military pilots from reporting UFOs. And on the similar side, you had OPNAV 3820, which restricted Navy guys from reporting UFOs with a $10,000 fine and possible imprisonment. So all along the way, you have all of these psy-ops and you have all of these interesting things. Then of course we have OSAP and then ATIP, recently those Bigelow Aerospace slides and documents were leaked that talked about ATIP as a white world cover program for OSAP. It's just, there's, there's so much nonsense to look through everywhere.

• 1:54:41Danny Jones?

  And then another interesting thing, bringing up Bigelow Aerospace is the fact that John, or is John Bigelow? No, it's not John Bigelow. What's his first name?

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  Robert Bigelow.

• 1:54:50Danny Jones?

  Robert Bigelow is so obsessed with the remote viewing precognitive dream, near death experience stuff. He does these contests with people like to do studies on near death experiences. And like, he's just spending a ton of money trying to understand this crazy stuff. That's like, it's like almost stuff that's impossible to like, measure. And it's like sci fi woo woo stuff that he's interested in. And he's like, one of the biggest investors in this UFO aerospace stuff.

• 1:55:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then according to some of the the BASS documents that released from the OSAT program, like BASS was seriously studying the Tic Tac scene by David Fravor as like a human made creation and so forth. You see some of those. This all started with like a pretty recent Reddit whistleblower, a guy who came forward on Reddit, talking about how the Tic Tac is ours, that Lou Elizondo and Jay Stratton specifically are legacy program gatekeepers that essentially kind of keep emergent technologies from surfacing and then provided a bunch of the BASS documents. Really, really interesting if you saw that.

• 1:55:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm, I haven't seen that, that's interesting.

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  Which of course on Reddit, you gotta be a little careful with any whistleblower. Same thing with Reddit and 4chan.

• 1:55:58Danny Jones?

  Healthy people on Reddit.

• 1:55:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, Reddit, I don't know why you'd ever post there, but it's still.

• 1:56:02Danny Jones?

  I love Reddit.

• 1:56:03Speaker 03

  Me too, I always browse him, but it's still pretty, pretty interesting. But you never know how to assess that, especially kind of, you're right, Bigelow is really interesting how he's so into more of the medical, metaphysical side.

• 1:56:14Danny Jones?

  Paranormal stuff, like he's like.

• 1:56:16Speaker 03

  Skinwalker Ranch and werewolves and stuff.

• 1:56:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, it's so crazy.

• 1:56:20Speaker 03

  See, that stuff's tough for me because I like to just stick to military agencies, intelligence agencies, DOE laboratories, contractors, all that. I like to look at stuff you can really kind of itemize and list out and draw chains of custody and so forth. So some of that esoteric stuff, I'll leave that in the consciousness studies to Jesse because he's got a way better way to talk about that and way better hold on it than me.

• 1:56:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's a lot, man. And that's what I like about your stuff is that you, you like are going to the crazy extent to like, get as much corroboration for this military stuff and this technology stuff, which is rare to see. And you know, like it's hard. It's hard to find this stuff, bro.

• 1:57:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:03Danny Jones?

  The stuff that you're like that hour and forty five minutes into the history of this case that happened in Peru, fricking decades ago, and you're, you're, there's not many people that are spending that much time and doing that much homework to connect all these dots that you're connecting.

• 1:57:20Speaker 03

  Well, I always worry, I, sometimes I worry that this stuff will be too boring, but I need to say it because specifically for Jonathan, like to arrive at the conclusion that it was Nest that picked him up, DOE Nest. I drew out flight routes from the DOE Cessna jets they owned in nineteen eight ninety six, from Sandy and National Labs down to Panama Air Force Base and different places around there to see if it was even technically feasible that that could have been Nest. So a lot of these crash retrieval cases whistleblowers, corporations involved, they, you know, I, I, I'm not solving anything. I'm trying to, I'm doing the best to get to the bottom of it, but they really need to be scrutinized intensely because just, just reading the testimony and not really arriving at any conclusion

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  or not having any supporting evidence, it's just not enough, in my opinion. Just regurgitating the stories isn't, isn't enough.

• 1:58:07Danny Jones?

  Right. And that's a, that's a trap that you can get into and, you know, people, these people that are like posting every day on every social media platform and trying to just talk about like the news of the day, you kind of get bogged down. You kind of like lose your footing in what you're really trying to, in like the real investigations that you're doing. Obviously spending, obviously these videos aren't quick for you to make.

• 1:58:26Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:58:27Danny Jones?

  It'll take you like months to make.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's why somebody recently called me like a, a podcaster and I say, no, like I, I fancy myself as like an old school UFO investigator. Like I, I want to do the research. I, I want to publish on YouTube. I, you know, if YouTube didn't exist, maybe I'd write books about stuff, but I, all I want to do is investigate these cases because I do it so I can arrive to my own conclusions. Like it's, I make these projects very selfishly for myself sometimes because a lot of the time when I'm researching or doing the investigation, I can kind of click with various things and. I also jam pack as much fact or as close to fact as humanly possible because when I create more work, I want to be able to reference my previous work that's incredibly detailed. So if I want to reference a contract I covered when talking about Lockheed Martin,

• 1:59:11Speaker 03

  I'm gonna make darn sure that I talk everything about the contract and the agencies at play and so forth.

• 1:59:17Danny Jones?

  Right. You were mentioning earlier when we were talking about Corso and the day after Roswell, you said there was some writer that was a Hollywood writer that like made up a bunch of stuff.

• 1:59:24Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, Bill Burns.

• 1:59:25Danny Jones?

  Because the reason I'm curious about that is there was a bunch of stuff in that book about like Velcro and Kevlar and all these like human technologies that were found in that crash. Do you think that was added by this Hollywood guy? Do you think that was real?

• 1:59:40Speaker 03

  Some of them were added, some of them weren't. But the distinguishing difference Corso makes in his work is like integrated circuitry and transistors and stuff. He makes the claim that a lot of these stuff weren't copied, like the technology wasn't basically seeded from Kraft, but we as humans had our own evolution of these technologies and an understanding of a different variation of something like the transistor integrated circuit allowed for further advancements of our technology. Because I know Jesse talked about it with you or I can't remember where Jesse talked about it, but he was skeptical that stuff like transistors were taken from the Roswell craft when transistors and various concepts for transistors had existed previously. And I tend to agree with that. I think if anything, that technology was likely used to bolster existing technology and not just copied.

• 2:00:27Danny Jones?

  So you think that that thing was a reproduction vehicle?

• 2:00:31Speaker 03

  No, no, no. So like I think that humans, let's say, let's take the transistor for example. If a transistor was pulled from the Roswell craft.

• 2:00:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  I think that humans were already working on concepts similar to transistors, technology similar to transistors, and pulling like a more advanced transistor type piece of technology off the Roswell crash may have allowed us to make quicker advancements in our current human prosaic technology because we can analyze non-human technology, not inventing technology out of the ether because we just pull it from a non-human source.

• 2:00:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:00Speaker 03

  So more so just like copy and not copying somebody else's homework, but taking influence from other technology on existing technologies.

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• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  Right. There's still a lot of questions with Corso, right? Like, we can't, there's a lot of rebuttals for most of that technology created. I mean, even passive night vision systems, Colonel John Alexander, who I have my problems with.

• 2:02:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, night vision was another, was another technology that got in the crash.

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  Well, Corso, Corso said that there was an eye film on the beans, and that's where passive night vision systems were, were pulled from. That's a, that's a very big, big claim. But what's interesting to me about this is in, in the, in the manuscript, it was just made for his grandchildren, right? It wasn't made for public consumption. It was made for his family, so... It's not like he's trying to sell this story to a huge world, because there's massive differences in the manuscript versus the book. The book talks, the first chapter, about Corso sitting like Isaac Newton under a tree, like, thinking about the Roswell crash, basically placing himself there. No, the manuscript is super dry. It repeats itself dozens, if not hundreds of times, but it just is, is, is basically Corso's words actually from Corso, and not with added fluff. Like, in the book,

• 2:03:05Speaker 03

  in the book, there's one, like, senior intelligence or DOD official that Corso basically convinces to, you know, perform a self-inflicted gunshot wound with. Like, Corso acts so tough to do that. And that's not in the manuscript. That's fluff nonsense to make something sell to Hollywood. So there's a lot of added information that I, I really understand why people take Corso so skeptically if all they've read is The Day After Roswell.

• 2:03:27Danny Jones?

  Right, right. What, what is, what is your take on John Alexander?

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  John Alexander, I don't know, he, what I, what I think the most interesting example of where John Alexander was present, present was 1985 at the Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group that was held at BDM's facility in McLean, Virginia. Right, so this was an event that Oki Shannon, if you've heard of Oki Shannon, he was director of like special projects at Los Alamos National Labs, and he is mentioned multiple times in the Wilson Davis interview, in 1985, he went to attend this event at BDM McLean. This event was classified using DOE controls, right, which is really interesting. A lot of it was ran by John Alexander and at that time, new BDM board member, Albert

• 2:04:14Speaker 03

  Stubblebine, who had just left US Army NSCOM for BDM in 1984. At this conference, there was so much talk about UFO reverse engineered programs, you know, conducted through speeches and organization by Alexander, including a massive mention of a, I think it says like huge engineering project under Bobby Ray Enman, and of course, that's somebody we talked about.

• 2:04:36Danny Jones?

  The Autec guy, right?

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  No, Bobby Ray Enman is the neuro guy, he's the CIA guy, he's the NSA guy, he's the SAIC guy, he's the Wacken Hut guy.

• 2:04:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:04:44Speaker 03

  What, he's, he's one of the main villains of this, of this entire story, I'd say. Something I forgot to tell you about is in 1989, he talked to NASA mission specialist, Bob Eschler. Bob Eschler called him, somehow they worked, they got in a relationship and were talking to each other, and Bob Eschler basically asked if recovered UFOs would ever become available for technological research. And what's interesting is this phone call is recorded, so you can actually listen to it. And Bobby Ray Enman does the whole, I know nothing about that, but directs Eschler to current CIA DSMT Director of Science and Technology Deputy Director Everett Heineman. Says, if you want to know about it, go talk to Heineman. So Eschler talks about Heineman, Heineman freaks out, says, no, don't talk to me, nothing there. Heineman was also director of the NRO Program B, and was actually the first, one of the

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  first heads of Pine Gap when it opened up in the 70s. In 2023, a UFO researcher, RGH UFOs, emailed Heineman, and I wish he would get back to me, but he's never responded to me, and Heineman alluded that he did in fact work in UFO UFO programs, he said, I'm no longer in that area of research. But back to Inman, Inman also appointed Bob Eschler, NASA mission specialist to former Director of Naval Intelligence, Sumner Shapiro. Sumner Shapiro was also a BDM board member, but Sumner Shapiro met with Bob Eschler and Sumner Shapiro told Bob Eschler that not only had he studied craft up close, but they were shipped between different DOE laboratories and some of them featured interlocking components that had to be assembled and disassembled in certain ways if you're going to gain access to the craft.

• 2:06:11Speaker 03

  So Bobby Ray Inman points Bob Eschler to all sorts of these guys. Bobby Ray Inman is former Director of Neuro, CIA, all this, but then in 2020, and this echoes the present very well, Bobby Ray Inman appeared on Project Unity, Jay Anderson's podcast, and said he had found explanations, conventional explanations for every single UFO sighting, which is nonsense to take that stance that every single UFO sighting you've ever cracked, sounds like Sean Kirkpatrick. So this guy in 1989 is pointing Bob Eschler to firsthand UFO retrieval knowledge people, and then he is walking those statements back. And Bobby Ray Inman has a very illustrious history. He was also on the board for WackenHut, which is a private security agency mentioned by

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  so many whistleblowers and including performing security at Area 51 S4.

• 2:06:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I learned all about WackenHut when I had the dudes in here that made the Danny Castellaro documentary.

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:07:03Danny Jones?

  Have you seen that documentary?

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Uh-uh.

• 2:07:04Danny Jones?

  Holy shit, bro. You gotta watch that. It is, they talk all about like, it's called the octopus murder.

• 2:07:13Speaker 03

  You know what? I can't believe I haven't watched the octopus murders yet. So many people have told me to watch it.

• 2:07:18Danny Jones?

  It is amazing. It, they talk, it basically explains how like all of these things are connected with WackenHut, the CIA, and all of these different scandals that have ever happened from like Watergate to like Iran-Contra and all this stuff. It's all a part of this big fucking crazy deep state blob octopus and all these tentacles are attached to one another. And Danny Castellaro got to the bottom of this thing.

• 2:07:46Danny Jones?

  And he was found, uh, he was found with his wrists slashed in a bathtub in a hotel room. Yeah. And, uh, it's, it's an amazing documentary and they, they go deep into the Wacken Hut stuff.

• 2:07:59Speaker 03

  What, you know, Wacken Hut, Wacken Hut even has ties in, in the subject we're talking about now with the Department of Energy. Uh, I, I mentioned the Department of Energy Special Response Teams that are like really highly armed guys at, at DOE National Labs that, you know, maybe they transport nuclear materials, maybe they transport radiological materials, maybe sometimes they transport UFOs, but these guys were trained by Wacken Hut. So they get Wacken Hut training. Uh, Wacken Hut worked closely alongside Indusec or Industrial Security Personnel, which I think industrial security personnel are the actual armed guards and so forth that will be inside of a UFO facility guarding the USAP program locations and so forth. So I think Wacken Hut is intimately entwined and Bobby Ray Inman, he was a board member of Wacken Hut.

• 2:08:42Danny Jones?

  It's interesting. He said that, uh, he was the guy who said that a bunch of the stuff can be explained away with a conventional explanation.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  All.

• 2:08:48Danny Jones?

  I think some of them definitely can.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:08:50Danny Jones?

  I think, uh, I think even the, uh, the, the stuff that was leaked by the, the two 2017, uh, New York Times stuff.

• 2:08:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:58Danny Jones?

  The footage of the, the, I forget if it's the Go Fast.

• 2:09:01Speaker 03

  Fleer Gimble and Go Fast.

• 2:09:02Danny Jones?

  There's one of them where the, basically it shows the thing flying across the water with the water in the background.

• 2:09:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Go fast.

• 2:09:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And he's like, whoa, are you seeing that or whatever? You can easily explain that with, uh, cause the, what people don't understand is that object is moving in one direction and the plane is moving in the other direction.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Danny Jones?

  And you have the parallax of the water underneath it to make it looks like it's, it's looks like it's going 10 times faster than it, it could be a fucking bird.

• 2:09:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:28Danny Jones?

  Flying across the surface of the water.

• 2:09:29Speaker 03

  I, I agree with you. I, I don't think those videos are the cream of the crop, definitive anything. I, I, in fact, I think that video and picture evidence is some of the, the least compelling stuff we can get. I'm, I'm with you. The debate still rages on about those videos. It's 2025. Those videos were released in 2017 and there's still been no progress made on a single one of them.

• 2:09:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:09:49Speaker 03

  Besides maybe just the Go Fast and it kind of downgrading it to possible parallax effect.

• 2:09:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:09:54Speaker 03

  Would be a treat. If you're familiar with the whistleblower Matt Brown.

• 2:09:57Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  Okay, so Matt Brown wrote the Immaculate Constellation Report.

• 2:10:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes. Okay.

• 2:10:03Speaker 03

  Some of those in that Immaculate Constellation Report are-

• 2:10:05Danny Jones?

  For people that don't know what the Immaculate Constellation Report is, can you summarize it?

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  Okay, so Immaculate Constellation, according to Matt Brown, who, you know, I put a lot of faith in, was a reactionary special access program formed, I think, 2017, 2018, to kind of catalog various morphologies, sightings, databases of UFO sightings. And there's been a lot of discussion that everything Matt Brown found was in a Shriver War Games file. I highly doubt that, but within the Immaculate Constellation Report, there's detailing of, you know, videos and imagery from satellites of morphologies of craft from everything to triangles hovering over the Indo-Pacific, captured by Endopaccom, to saucer, giant saucers resting in clouds, almost like camouflaging itself. The interesting thing about this report is it talks specifically about reproduction vehicles.

• 2:10:53Speaker 03

  It once said alien reproduction vehicles, but I think that was taken out. So, yeah, Matt Brown stumbled upon this database and created the Immaculate Constellation Report, which was presented to the House in November of 2024. Jeremy Corbell, I think it was his report, but Michael Schellenberger presented it.

• 2:11:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11:09Speaker 03

  And Nancy Mace entered it without, you know, Jeremy's page. A lot of drama there. But it's a really interesting report. And of course, Matt Brown just did a three-part interview series with Jeremy Corbell. And recently, I started making some scathing tweets directly accusing Pax River out there near Virginia of having hangars owned by Amentum, I think it is, that house, some recovered craft.

• 2:11:31Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:11:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:34Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:11:34Speaker 03

  Let's, let's see that dang satellite footage of that saucer resting in the clouds, because that's the type of footage that's, that's going to be compelling. You know, recently, there was the Lou Elizondo kerfuffle of presenting the irrigation circles. Did you see that?

• 2:11:49Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:11:49Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness. So- At the UAP

• 2:11:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes, I did see it. This was at South by Southwest?

• 2:11:56Speaker 03

  No, no, no. This was, uh, this was early May.

• 2:11:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:12:00Speaker 03

  There was a UAP Disclosure Fund meeting, and I think it was Admiral Tim Gallaudet, Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, and Eric Davis speaking. And there were some really interesting things, such as Eric Davis talking about four types of non-human species, and as well as most retrievals being maritime retrievals, which would then create a whole new world of investigation for us in Nero. And then Elizondo gets on stage, says, hey, I was given a picture by a pilot this morning, taken at this elevation, and it's just two elevation circles that has a small illusion of being like a saucer hanging over a flatland. That's the kind of stuff that actively hurts the topic very badly.

• 2:12:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's not a good look. What, did people call him out on it?

• 2:12:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's, yeah, it was, well, it was debunked within like an hour. And, you know, props to, props to the people who debunked that, but I just, I don't think that if that image wasn't properly vetted, that ever should have been posted, you know?

• 2:12:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:57Speaker 03

  Because he said he was given the photograph that morning or the night before, hadn't had time to vet it. But if he can't vet it, and Eric Davis has just talked about four species of non-humans and maritime retrievals, please, let's not, let's not show that, because that's just crap evidence to begin with. Videos and stuff really don't, don't push the, push the envelope. There's endless debate over pictures and sightings, and it's a huge problem because there had been previous pictures posted by Lou of a chandelier in Hungary. Do you remember that photo?

• 2:13:26Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:13:27Speaker 03

  It was a reflection of a chandelier. He initially called a mothership. So we gotta stop with those photos, because it's not helping anyone.

• 2:13:35Danny Jones?

  Have you seen the video? I'm sure you've seen the video of the, uh, what do they call it? The, the, the one, the one that was in Iraq?

• 2:13:42Speaker 03

  Oh, the Mosul Orb? Or the jellyfish?

• 2:13:44Danny Jones?

  The jellyfish.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, the jellyfish.

• 2:13:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the jellyfish looks like a cluster of balloons.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  Gosh, yeah, it's, it's so hard to tell with, because Jeremy Corbell posted the, or said the full video shows the thing rising out of the water.

• 2:13:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  And if that exists, that dispels the whole balloon narrative. But until we're presented with that, a cluster of balloons or other prosaic explanations are Are perfectly reasonable.

• 2:14:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we had, what's his name, the NASA engineer Kevin Newt?

• 2:14:12Speaker 03

  Oh, Kevin Canute?

• 2:14:13Danny Jones?

  He wasn't an engineer.

• 2:14:14Speaker 03

  He's a New York University physicist.

• 2:14:17Danny Jones?

  Physicist.

• 2:14:18Speaker 03

  Great guy.

• 2:14:18Danny Jones?

  Right, and he worked for NASA for a while, I think. And he was telling me the whole story about the, uh, the Japanese airliner.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  Oh, six to six to eight, eighteen twenty-six.

• 2:14:29Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly. And that whole story of that guy, that guy's testimony of that giant fricking shit the size of like fifteen football fields pulling up right next to him. Well, that's bizarre. And there was also a radar guy, apparently, that like corroborated all of it.

• 2:14:42Speaker 03

  Cause you remember the, the pilot of, uh, Japan Airlines flight, I think this was in nineteen eighty-six, said that huge craft basically orbited around his plane at insane speeds as well.

• 2:14:51Danny Jones?

  And he tried to take a picture of it and the thing just disappeared in an instant?

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you're right, it was tracked on radar as well. I can't remember the, I, I'm sure the debunker explanation is that it was Venus. Or something that the, the.

• 2:15:01Danny Jones?

  It was Venus?

• 2:15:02Speaker 03

  Well, you know, the, the joke here is that so many debunkers, when, when trained pilots say they see strange lights. Um, the debunker explanation is just Venus or something, but I, that's such a compelling case. There's also a Spanish airliner case in the seventies of an actual plane, a commercial airliner that was grounded due to UFO sightings in the plane's pathway. I can't remember what the flight is, it's like TK something, but that's another really intriguing story that was also captured on radar. That sort of multi-sensor detection is, is, is really what, what can help push the envelope. And Kevin Canute is brilliant. He talks about that case in his paper. Estimating flight characteristics for anomalous unidentified phenomena or something like that. It came out in twenty twenty-two, twenty twenty-one, twenty twenty-two.

• 2:15:42Speaker 03

  But he also talks about some of like the physics and experienced G-forces by craft in, in that sighting, in the Graham-Buthane encounter, I think it was, and then the, the Tic Tac in two thousand and four. Which he estimated when the Tic Tac, um, these, or changed from a high elevation to just above seawater, it could have, uh, experienced up to fifty-five hundred Gs of accelerative force. Which is crazy.

• 2:16:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's a lot, I mean, there's a lot of sightings from pilots and, and airplane sightings from, from all around the world. It's, uh, and then, you know, another thing I wonder about is like, how mu- how many? Like going to this underwater neuro thing, like you never hear about submarines witnessing anything.

• 2:16:18Speaker 03

  That.

• 2:16:19Danny Jones?

  Well, submarines also don't have windows, which is convenient.

• 2:16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what about the radar?

• 2:16:22Danny Jones?

  Like they have all kinds of, I'm sure they have all kinds of, of sensors that can detect anything around them and sonar and, and all this stuff. And they, they spend so much time underwater and there's so many submarines. Annie Jacobson, when she was on here last, she was showing us a map of all the submarine highways around the world for all the countries. And between the US, Russia and China, it is just like, the oceans are littered with submarine highway, nuclear submarines patrolling everywhere. So, um, there's gotta be tons of reports from these nuclear subs, but, which obviously would never probably leak into the public.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  Right. And what's interesting is, you know, I think you and Jesse talked about it, Robert Hastings and UFOs and nukes.

• 2:17:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02Speaker 03

  And how UFO swarm nuclear sites. It stands to reason that UFOs would swarm nuclear subs.

• 2:17:06Danny Jones?

  Of course. They're loaded with warheads.

• 2:17:08Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of, of, of, so in Project Blue Book, there's a, a great document. It's like the unexplained of Blue Book. And it's just all the really unexplained sightings that had no real conclusion. And some of them are of course maritime and, uh, USO sightings. And some of these are like Tic Tacs hovering above the water in 1950.

• 2:17:25Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  And I think Kevin Knuth talked about a New Zealand destroyer case just off of New Zealand. I think it was a, I think it was actually a Kiwi ship and not an American ship that encountered like a huge saucer type craft that passed very fast under the destroyer and knocked out the power.

• 2:17:40Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, I think I remember him saying that.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then there, I've, I've talked to some, um.

• 2:17:48Danny Jones?

  NASA's gotta know something. Sorry, continue.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Oh no, I've talked to some former Navy guys who have talked about like, uh, they've mentioned aircraft carrier sized USOs. And this is a guy playing, I'm not gonna spoil it cause I plan to talk to him, uh, kinda soon on one of my programs, but that, I really hope he talks about that, cause that is intriguing. Aircraft carrier sized USO, but you're talking about NASA?

• 2:18:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna say not, you know, NASA. Has got to have, there's gotta be some, you know, I know NASA is a very public facing organization, but like you would imagine that if NASA's been involved in so much since the moon landing and all that stuff, that there's gotta be some sort of interest or investigations into this stuff from people at NASA.

• 2:18:33Speaker 03

  Well, plenty of NASA astronauts have had a interest, Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell. I mean, Gordon Cooper himself discussed even before he was on NASA flights, kind of chasing UFOs in a, in a jet while in service. And there's, there, I can't recall them off the top of my head, but there are stories of like lunar or Apollo astronauts on the way or returning from the moon, seeing strange craft or strange craft following them. There's allegedly a tape taken by one of the Apollo astronauts. There's the testimony of, of, this is a famous career testimony of Donna Hare. She was a former NASA employee who claimed that NASA would airbrush UFOs out of various satellite imagery or space imagery. But I, I agree, but it already is somehow, it seems like NASA's almost disconnect, NASA

• 2:19:18Speaker 03

  feels a little bit to me like it's a little bit left out of the club. NASA's pretty underfunded, NASA doesn't have some of the most cutting edge technology. I, I think at least to me, it seems like a lot of the cutting edge technology and actual craft materials are not relegated to space exploration and seeing Mars. It's relegated to tactical reconnaissance, it's relegated to asymmetrical warfare advantages. And that stuff's going to be kept in the deep black of the military and intelligence community.

• 2:19:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think, who was it that was telling me? I think it was Jason Giorgiani was telling me a story of a guy who, I think he worked at NASA, but was like shown something. Um, and then he got like hit on his bike, he got killed, like riding his bike like after that.

• 2:20:00Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm trying to, God, who was that?

• 2:20:01Danny Jones?

  I think we talked about this with Kevin Canute as well. There was some guy, or no, maybe Jesse talked about it with Rogan too. There was some guy who basically was like shown photo. Oh, this has something to do with the moon. He was shown something on the moon.

• 2:20:16Speaker 03

  Oh, Carl Wolf.

• 2:20:17Danny Jones?

  That's who it was. Carl Wolf. Yes. And he was killed?

• 2:20:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think Joe made a joke like, doesn't look like he biked enough because he was a little bit on the poorly side. Yeah, Carl Wolf talked about anomalies on the moon and how, uh, I think what they spoke about is Carl Wolf was privy to some of these images and was like gobsmacked and so excited for the upcoming news to show structures on the moon.

• 2:20:38Danny Jones?

  He's like, oh my God, this is going to be released and it never got released.

• 2:20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's that, you know, that's another Greer whistleblower. I, maybe there is some interesting stuff on the moon. I know Jesse and Joe were talking about the dark side of the moon, how, uh, you know, the moon's tightly locked. So a lot of the time the dark side faces away from us. But also there was a recent, there was a guy on Sean Ryan. It was a recent general. I can't remember what branch of service, but was talking about how the Chinese are mining helium three on the moon.

• 2:21:05Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:21:06Speaker 03

  For power sources. That's crazy because we haven't had a, we haven't, the US hasn't had a person out of low or thorough orbit since like 1972.

• 2:21:13Danny Jones?

  Right. Why?

• 2:21:14Speaker 03

  That's on that, unless we have ARV that are traversing our solar system. Which is possible because you know, like Gary McKinnon, right? He's the NASA, he's the NASA hacker in 2002, I think it was.

• 2:21:24Danny Jones?

  He's a guy who lives outside the States now?

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  Yes. He hacked into various DoD databases and found like a non-terrestrial officers list and, uh, I can't remember the ship, but he, he saw an image of like a huge saucer shaped, I'm sorry, cigar shaped craft in front of one of our Jovian planets. So who knows, you know, there's, there's the whole secret space program stuff, the SSP with like Corey Good and the 23 and back. That's all really out there stuff that I don't really subscribe to, but you know, maybe there is, uh, maybe there have been ARVs that have been taken for a spin outside of, uh, outside of Earth.

• 2:21:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the moon stuff is odd. Moon stuff is odd. The, the, the moon landing stuff is really odd too. Because, uh, I know it's, uh, it's frowned upon to, to question the moon landing. Um, but like, there's a lot of really big questions that like need answers about the moon landing. Like, like, how did they, how do they lose all of the data on the moon landing stuff? They, they claim that if you ask chat GPT, chat GPT will tell you that the response or the, the answer to why they lost all of that information in that data is because they accidentally overwrote their hard drives. Like they use those hard drives then they to rewrite stuff and they accidentally like erased it or whatever. So, so now we have none of that technology.

• 2:22:42Speaker 03

  That seems like a, I forgot my homework type statement as a kid.

• 2:22:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is. And it's like, it's also the only, it's also the only technological feat in any sort of, uh, industry or any sort of technology that hasn't event advanced or like exponentially grown since it was first implemented.

• 2:23:03Speaker 03

  Right, right. Cause we were talking about the DSRVs, right? The deep submergence rescue vehicles, those had, when they were created in, I think, nineteen, when they were operational in nineteen seventy two, they had better computing systems than even the latest Apollo lunar modules. There wasn't the best and brightest technology and innovation in these Apollo systems. It was pretty mundane technology that never seemed to, to innovate.

• 2:23:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and I've never heard, I even asked Kevin about this when I was on, when we were on here, I asked about that Van Allen radiation belt stuff and like, you know, is it, is it really that toxic? Or, you know, have we not been able to send anyone through that Van Allen radiation belt? And I haven't heard anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why.

• 2:23:42Speaker 03

  What is?

• 2:23:42Danny Jones?

  How we can get through that and like why, because apparently like the Russians sent like a dog through the Van Allen radiation belt and it died like a day after.

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  The claim there is that the Van Allen radiation belt like destroy, either keeps, either destroyed the footage that we had at the moon landing? Or it kind of keeps us close to home, basically. It's toxic for a human to pass through, which it's the latter.

• 2:24:03Danny Jones?

  Okay, it's toxic, like a legend, according to, um, this guy we had in here, Bart Cybrell, who has all these documentaries about how the moon landing was a hoax.

• 2:24:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:24:12Danny Jones?

  He claims that no human can survive passing through that Van Allen radiation belt.

• 2:24:17Speaker 03

  Unless we have shielded ARV materials.

• 2:24:19Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Unless we have shielded ARV materials. But then he was like, we would have been going to the moon, you know, ever since then, but we have it. And we keep saying, every single president, every single president has said, since Bush, or since that happened. I think Jimmy Carter was the first one said, we're gonna go, we're gonna go back to the moon. And then, you know, even Trump has said multiple times, we're gonna go back to the moon. But the moon landing, the moon missions keep getting pushed back, pushed back. And it just recently got pushed back again.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:43Danny Jones?

  From, it was supposed to happen September this year, and now they're saying it's gonna happen like June of next year.

• 2:24:46Speaker 03

  Remember we were supposed to go to Mars in 2025?

• 2:24:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  And even back in the sixties and seventies, out of the Rand Corporation and stuff, there were all sorts of plans for lunar bases and like lunar tunnel systems for trains. Huge plans. What?

• 2:25:00Speaker 03

  None of these, there were supposed to be maglev systems underground on the moon, like maglev trains. And none of this ever transpired. It is curious. The whole, the whole moon is, the Apollo missions, there's a lot to chew on there. And I've never really taken the time to sit through and sift through it, but it's so interesting.

• 2:25:18Danny Jones?

  And that period of time, in the middle of the Cold War, was when the United States was, there was so much deception and so much shit happening around that. I mean, the Kennedy assassination cover up, you know, Watergate, you know, MKUltra, that was, that was all happening at the same exact time.

• 2:25:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:41Danny Jones?

  The moon missions happened.

• 2:25:44Danny Jones?

  So, and you know, it's just, there are so many questions. And you know, the fact that anyone who questions it is automatically painted as a fool.

• 2:25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Anything should be questioned. One of the, speaking about exploring our own solar system on our own moon, what we talked about, the Fluxliner Alien Reproduction Vehicle, I forgot to mention. One of the interesting things Brad Sorensen said is that some of these suit and ties showing off the Fluxliner claimed that the Fluxliner had been taken to various places in our solar system, because this thing flew at basically the speed of light using zero-point energy systems, and that our own solar system was devoid of other intelligent life, which probably. But, so that's interesting. So there's always a whirl, there's always a pause. Possible world in which either Gary McKinnon's non-terrestrial officers or the flux liner alien reproduction vehicles out zipping by Jupiter or Saturn. Which, gosh, that would be intriguing.

• 2:26:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Catherine Fitz is so, she, she sent me this book called, I think it's called The Rings of Saturn. Have you heard of this?

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 2:26:45Danny Jones?

  Were allegedly like back in the, I forget what year it was, but I get, there's a photo of the first probe that got like really close to Saturn. Took a photo of the, the ring around Saturn and the, I haven't read the book yet, but, but apparently the claim of the book is that they found like some sort of weird looking vehicle that was like parked inside of the ring of Saturn.

• 2:27:06Speaker 03

  I, I think I've, I've heard this. I, I think I've heard this in passing, but I don't really know anything about it. Wow.

• 2:27:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's just interesting. Somebody like her who's so smart, right? And she's a, you know, she's a math wizard. You know, she, she, she looks at this stuff and she's been in the government and she's, she's a very reasonable, rational, rational, uh, smart human being. Also like believes in all this stuff like, you know, taking all this stuff from the Nazis and, and uh, we're creating a breakaway civilization of bankers trying to get off the, the fricking earth in case something happens and you know, all this UFO stuff. It's like a, it's a weird thing for someone like her to be interested in, but like, you know, she's a very credible person.

• 2:27:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she's really hip to the kind of UFO lore and the UFO subject. She had like a series of twenty, like twenty-five interviews over the years on Dark Journalist and I watched. Yeah. Oh, she is like over twenty. Everything from like the UFO economy, one point O to three point O to so many things. And she's really dialed in with a lot of these subjects.

• 2:28:15Danny Jones?

  She blew my mind when she was explaining, uh, like Elon's Doge. Uh, when she was explaining like, like Elon created Doge to find all this waste, fraud and abuse, right? But he's getting, he's taking, uh, auditing like the IRS, social security, the HHS.

• 2:28:32Danny Jones?

  And not looking at the black hole of the trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon.

• 2:28:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:37Danny Jones?

  But like, and, and her, what she was saying was that Elon's deliberately trying to like, get all of this data from the IRS and the HHS. Because it's, you know, you could have all the data on all the human beings inside of the United States. And integrate that with XAI and Palantir AI. And Elon's been, you know, on record, talking about how he loves China's WeChat. You know, the WeChat is the.

• 2:29:02Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  App, it's everything. It's everything. It's basically payment, social media, texting, like it's all, it all is all funneled through this centralized WeChat. And, and um, the fact that he's, you know, talked so highly of the WeChat thing and how he wants to create, turn Twitter into his own WeChat. And simultaneously working with Palantir and integrating all this stuff and using all of the HHS, social security and IRS data to integrate it with the AI is, and working with Palantir, who just got like a, like an eight hundred million dollar contract two weeks ago. Uh, I don't think there's any uh, optimistic outcome.

• 2:29:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:29:42Danny Jones?

  Of doing something like that.

• 2:29:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:29:44Danny Jones?

  And he was also, uh, this recent uh, falling out with him and Trump.

• 2:29:49Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 2:29:50Danny Jones?

  Part of it had something to do with, uh, Elon really wanted this specific person to be the head of NASA. And Trump said, no, I don't want that guy to be the head of NASA. Cause he said something was fishy about him or something.

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  What, that, that Twitter beef came out of nowhere. That was really shocking to see, cause then of course, uh, Elon implicated Trump in the Epstein files and he said, that's why they're not released.

• 2:30:10Danny Jones?

  And he just deleted the tweet too.

• 2:30:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, things got ugly really fast. And so you're saying you're not optimistic about, uh, this kind of Doge platform, A, because we would lead towards a, even closer towards a CCP national security state with that centralized processing. And that probably wouldn't even get to the bottom of where these dollars are going.

• 2:30:29Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, apparently, apparently all, you know, all the places that Elon was looking for waste, fraud and abuse pales in comparison to what the Pentagon is missing and the trillions of dollars. Like, why didn't he go look for that?

• 2:30:40Speaker 03

  Because those are funneled into black holes and they're so, one of the things I, I really want to understand that I really can't for UFO programs, which, you know, I'm interested in, Catherine Austin Fitz is interested in, is the creative accounting around them. You know what, I think, I can't definitively prove it, but I think there are numerous vehicles in which to fund these programs, like we talked about earlier. IDIQ indefinite delivery indefinite quantity contracts, IDC contracts, sole source contracts, cash transactions, skimming off contracts, overcharging, all siphoning off funds, leftover funds, end of fiscal year. The amount of creative accounting must be a nightmare to try and track any of it. That's why it would be great if we had a UFO whistleblower that actually worked in legacy program accounting.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  That'd be a couple, some people's dream, that'd be Catherine Austin Fitz's dream.

• 2:31:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure it would be. But like, again, it's refreshing to see somebody like her looking at it from the, looking at it through the lens of accounting.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:39Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 2:31:40Speaker 03

  And it needs to be done because especially for the subject of like deep underground military bases. Back in the 60s and 70s, the US Army Corps of Engineer, like we talked about, published a ton of studies on deep underground facilities and would often go through cost evaluation and discussed level costs and kind of come to conclusions that these bases could be constructed, they could be constructed in pre-existing cavities without too much expenditure out of the budget. And there's also discussion that some of these tunnels between these underground bases are used, are of course corded out via tunnel boring machines, TBMs. But that a lot of these projects to find these dollars, we might have to look at the Bureau of Reclamation that have dug out tunnels all across the United States for waterways, for aqueducts, etc.

• 2:32:22Speaker 03

  And how these might have some clandestine secondary operations to track those monies.

• 2:32:26Danny Jones?

  And like one of the questions with these underground bases and these bunkers that people are building, like if there's some sort of like catastrophe and that's the main idea of people that build their own bunkers is like, how are you going to power it once you run out of fuel? Like, do they have some sort of like crazy special energy?

• 2:32:44Speaker 03

  They could also self-contained nuclear reactors, but I mean, if that ever happened, you know, you and I'd be screwed. I live in Denver, there's a massive FEMA continuity of government site under Denver.

• 2:32:53Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:32:54Speaker 03

  I'm not going in there, there's Mount Weather, like, we're not going in there. All of these sites, a lot of them are for continuity of government, but then there's deeper layers. There's huge stiffs existing around and a lot of them are provable. For example, the Monzano Storage Area at Sandia National Labs is an acknowledged stiff. An area under Los Alamos National Labs, also in New Mexico, is an acknowledged stiff. And then there are the Army Corps of Engineers. There's historical conspiracies of massive underground facilities below China Lake, right in California. Naval Air Weapons Center, China Lake, really creepy place. And places like Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona. And back in the 60s, the US Army Corps of Engineers did a ton of deep basing site

• 2:33:37Speaker 03

  studies and show that specifically, I think it's Emilio County where China Lake is, and then Yuma County, Arizona are perfect spots where natural cavities exist, where massive underground facilities can be built without having to core out any more rock. So some of these places, there are some US Army Corps of Engineer studies that some of these underground locations can be located up to 8,000 feet underground.

• 2:34:00Danny Jones?

  8,000. God.

• 2:34:05Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 2:34:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I would imagine they probably also have, I mean, if I was to bet, I would imagine they have to have some sort of setup on the moon, like some sort of base on the moon. If we actually did go to the moon in 69, 70, you know, during those Apollo missions, I would find it hard to believe that we haven't set up something there to like at least back up the data of humanity, you know? Because if there is some sort of like crazy catastrophe that wipes out most of civilization, it's gonna be like, it's gonna wipe out our technology and the data that we have. And you would wanna offload that. You would wanna keep that safe somewhere for humanity to eventually reset somewhere.

• 2:34:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And if you do have a secret space program that uses some types of conventional rocketry where you have to overcome the Earth's escape velocity, it makes far more sense to station some of those assets on the moon where you don't have to consistently overcome that at such an escape velocity.

• 2:35:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:05Speaker 03

  So it makes perfect sense.

• 2:35:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:07Speaker 03

  And of course, the RAN system and other other FFRDCs and corporations of interest were doing studies of maglev systems below the moon's surface. Which if we've done it here, which I believe we have, I think it's. Definitely possible on a place like our moon.

• 2:35:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:24Speaker 03

  Especially if we have stuff like the TR-3B for logistics, an ARB to transport some stuff. Or what, you know what Michael Herrera talked about, that huge octagon craft that he saw in Indonesia? That was able to fit multiple containers, carrying people, according to him and Jake, as well as massive trucks, able to zip together and fly off.

• 2:35:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:35:43Speaker 03

  So that sounds like a perfectly suitable logistics transportation craft that you could use to shuttle materials or building materials, construction materials, supplies, logistics to places like the moon if you want to have a off-planet base.

• 2:35:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally, man. Well, bro, thank you for doing this.

• 2:36:00Speaker 03

  Thank you, Danny.

• 2:36:00Danny Jones?

  This has been fucking amazing. Do you tell people your real name?

• 2:36:04Speaker 03

  Uh, I think Jesse said it once, so it's Sam.

• 2:36:06Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay.

• 2:36:06Speaker 03

  Yes, so go by Sam.

• 2:36:08Danny Jones?

  I didn't know if you're keeping it a secret or not.

• 2:36:10Speaker 03

  No problem. I just don't like when Marines try and scare me by saying my full name.

• 2:36:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:15Speaker 03

  Cause he did the full, I think he, I'm trying to remember, but he did the full Mr. Samuel, like full name.

• 2:36:20Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:36:21Speaker 03

  So, but thank you, brother, for having me. This has been an honor. And this is the coolest studio I've ever seen.

• 2:36:26Danny Jones?

  Oh, thanks, bro. Yeah, we've been working on it for a while, but we're about to move, so it's gonna go.

• 2:36:30Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 2:36:31Danny Jones?

  What, are you working on anything else that coming up people should look forward to?

• 2:36:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. So whenever one project's done, I'm always working on the next. I don't know what's gonna be released by now. It may be a big project on SAIC, or it may be another interview with a former Navy commander with some really interesting knowledge on like the Wilson Davis notes and stuff. But in between my videos, always expect another one in about four weeks' time. As soon as one ends, I'm working another one.

• 2:36:56Danny Jones?

  There you go.

• 2:36:56Speaker 03

  That's the channel. The videos will always be about craft retrieval, reverse engineering, material exploitation. I try and lay the topics out as best as possible. If you want to start on one video for new viewers, maybe the Navy one, because that, that one, that one's really interesting. Or maybe the Jonathan Wegant or Alien Reproduction Vehicle Corso Grumman. I don't know.

• 2:37:18Danny Jones?

  The Wegant one is fucking phenomenal.

• 2:37:21Speaker 03

  The, uh, that one right there, Reverse Engineering at Edwards. That's the story of Ed, the guy I told you about. So that's always one interesting. And that Koyam, I don't know, man. They're all, they're all fun to me. That's why I make them.

• 2:37:31Danny Jones?

  It's a, it's a rabbit hole, man. And once you start watching, you can't stop. It pulls you right in.

• 2:37:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I know. The subject is so difficult to parse through, but hopefully, hopefully a couple of years from now, we'll, we'll have the subject ironed out a little bit.

• 2:37:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we'll see.

• 2:37:43Speaker 03

  And hopefully the UAPDA, the new legislation to be entered into the 2026 National Defense Authorization Act gets passed because what, what that does quickly is that aims to set up a independent review board appointed by the president, confirmed by the Senate of like civilian experts to help roll out a responsible disclosure plan. Formerly it was McConnell and Rand Paul, I think that blocked this from the Senate and then Senate communicating with the House to get this passed. So, and I think there was some involvement of Mike Turner, former rep that, that.

• 2:38:14Danny Jones?

  He's the Ohio guy, right?

• 2:38:16Speaker 03

  Right Patterson. And then there's even some rumors of like the eminent domain discussion being talked about by Travis Taylor and Jay Stratton. So I truly hope that if that legislation gets introduced again, which I believe it will, that that can finally get passed and we can finally start to peer behind the 1954 Atomic Energy Act.

• 2:38:34Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Well, cool, man. I learned a lot. Thank you again for your time.

• 2:38:38Speaker 03

  Thank you, brother.

• 2:38:38Danny Jones?

  We'll link all this stuff below. And that's all, folks.

• 2:38:41Speaker 03

  All right. Appreciate it, man.

• 2:38:42Danny Jones?

  Goodnight, everybody.

• 2:38:44Speaker 00

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