Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out America Signed Up for the World Cup. FIFA Stuck You with the Tab. About this episode The biggest party in global sport is underway, and soccer's governing body stands to profit nearly $9 billion. How did FIFA squeeze U. S. taxpayers with so many hidden costs? The Athletic's Adam Crafton crunches the numbers on wasted public money, as Pablo dissects comically absurd demands upon host cities — from "clean" stadiums and super-V. I. P. treatment... to a pop-up jail.
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Further reading:
• "The U. S. signed up for the World Cup — and its host cities are paying for it" https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/article/7314190/
• "U. S. states waived taxes to host World Cup" https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7321482/2026/06/10/world-cup-tax-waived-games/
• "The $25.8m Kansas City 'World Cup jail'" https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7309921/2026/06/09/world-cup-argentina-kansas-city-jail/
• Rahm Emanuel Q&A: 'The numbers don't work'" https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7318897/2026/06/08/world-cup-chicago-mayor-rahm-emanuel-2026/
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Transcript 10,128 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Pablo Torre? Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.
0:06 Speaker 01 You expect me to treat the Chicago taxpayers as the dumb money at the table? You gotta be kidding me.
0:12 Pablo Torre? Right after this ad.
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2:20 Pablo Torre? Can we talk about your green card? Is that?
2:24 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:25 Pablo Torre? You have a green card, Adam Craft, and congratulations.
2:28 Speaker 05 Thank you very much. Yeah, no, that came through in the mail last week. So that is a huge relief. And it also now means, I don't know if people know this who live in America, but once you're in the process trying to adjust your status from non-immigrant to immigrant, you can't leave the country during this process. So if I would have gone home for a birthday or to see some friends or whatever, then you have to start your entire application again. So I thought it was going to take, we expected it to take between three and 12 months. And thankfully, it's come through super fast. So thank you, America.
3:03 Pablo Torre? You're welcome.
3:04 Speaker 05 Great.
3:04 Pablo Torre? I wanted to start here because I wanted to congratulate you on apparently being trapped with us.
3:10 Speaker 05 Trapped in the best way.
3:11 Pablo Torre? And you moved here because of what's happening right now, which is the World Cup being a New York-New Jersey joint.
3:21 Speaker 05 Exactly. So I moved March 2024, and the idea was to develop contacts, build relationships, start to get stories in the lead up to the World Cup. It was a good chance to kind of actually get here, get feet on the ground, start to get to know people, get a sense of what the challenges and the storylines were going to be. And I guess that leads us nicely into where we may go.
3:44 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I mean, you are, for those not initiated, you're the guy I've been turning to to help me understand what the [bleep] is going on in now our country. You are the two-time reigning Sports Journalist of the Year in the UK.
3:58 Speaker 05 Thank you.
3:59 Pablo Torre? I mean, I'm just stating facts. And you're on loan from The Athletic FC to help, I think more than anything today, bring me a folder of documents.
4:09 Speaker 05 I have a folder, an entire folder of documents. Do you want them or am I keeping them?
4:14 Pablo Torre? I think I should.
4:16 Speaker 05 It's a lot of documents.
4:17 Pablo Torre? To convey the tabs and the color-codedness and all of this and just the sound, which I think our microphones can pick up as I...
4:25 Pablo Torre? That's the sound of American exceptionalism. I guess in figurative and also perhaps literal ways.
4:31 Speaker 05 Well, it's also FIFA exceptionalism in terms of much of that are contracts that cities have with FIFA and all of the different reasons why my money, your money, is being spent on this tournament.
4:45 Pablo Torre? So from a big thousand-foot view, I should say, I got to cover the 2014 World Cup in Brazil and I got a sense on the ground of what I had heard from afar, which is there is a lot of money sloshing around here. FIFA, for those not initiated, is the apex predator of notoriously corrupt sporting organizations.
5:10 Speaker 05 We should say historically corrupt at this point. At this point, I think FIFA would push back strongly on that.
5:18 Pablo Torre? But this story, as much as people may think, okay, yeah, you're talking about FIFA corruption, Johnny Infantino, the head of FIFA and President Donald Trump, we see them all the time exchanging golden objects.
5:31 Speaker 03 We start with our sports lead. President Trump finally has his peace prize. No, not the Nobel Peace Prize, which is the world's most prestigious, and one that President Trump has long coveted. This one is the FIFA Peace Prize.
5:46 Speaker 06 President, this is your prize. This is your peace prize. There is also a beautiful medal for you that you can wear everywhere you want to go.
6:00 Speaker 07 I'm gonna wear it right now.
6:01 Speaker 06 Okay, let me hold. Ah, fantastic. Excellent.
6:07 Speaker 07 Such an honor to be with Johnny. I've known Johnny for so long. He's done such an incredible job and I have to tell you, you've set new records on ticket sales and that is an amazing thing. The numbers are beyond any numbers that anybody, even beyond what Johnny thought was possible.
6:25 Speaker 05 If you think of Trump in the most basic terms, he seems to be someone who is impressed by big, by bold, by eye-catching numbers.
6:34 Speaker 05 By numbers that are sometimes inflated. So I think, you know, if you put in front of him, things that are gold, things that are glitzy, things that sound large, he tends to be impressed. And it tends to be less about is this good value and more about wow, that's huge. And Infantino is very, very good at presenting large numbers.
6:54 Pablo Torre? Just the numbers on this in terms of how much FIFA is spending. We're looking at, again, just the basic math of it. Operating budget, 1.12 billion dollars. The projected revenue, 11 billion dollars. And Infantino is saying it's 30.5 billion in terms of what the US economy would get.
7:17 Speaker 06 I mean, the economic impact only in the US is around 30 billion. It's around 200,000 permanent jobs which are created. As far as we are concerned, we have 5,000 employees working only on this. We'll have around 300,000 people. We will have 6 billion people in the planet watching the World Cup. This is absolutely incredible. It's 104 games, 104 matches in 39 days. It's like 104 Super Bowls.
7:45 Pablo Torre? That's a lot of billions.
7:47 Speaker 05 It's a lot of billions, right? And what is economic impact? And how much of that economic impact is additional to what would already, what a city would already get, you know, in a usual summer in the United States, when you have concerts and festivals and all different stuff that goes on in New York and LA and Miami and all of these different places. So how much of that value is additional and can really be attributed to a World Cup?
8:12 Pablo Torre? Well, I want to bring us to what is different about this World Cup, because this event is different from the ones that you and I have covered in the past.
8:20 Speaker 05 Yeah, and it's really on an operational level. So historically FIFA would have a local organizing committee for the host country. So in Qatar, it was kind of the slightly Orwellianly named Qatar Supreme Committee for Delivery and Legacy.
8:35 Pablo Torre? That's right.
8:36 Speaker 05 Of the FIFA World Cup.
8:37 Pablo Torre? Great merch.
8:38 Speaker 05 Great merch, right?
8:39 Pablo Torre? Supreme Committee for Delivery and Legacy.
8:41 Speaker 05 Right, like you're desperate to buy that baseball cap, right? For this one, FIFA have kind of taken it in-house. So they've opened up offices in Miami, in New York City. They have an office in Trump Tower. Wonder how that came about?
8:54 Pablo Torre? Cheer coincidence, sure.
8:55 Speaker 05 Cheer coincidence. And As a result of that, it gives them a lot more control over the operations, the revenue. But as part of that, they've created these host agreements and host committees, sort of subsidiaries, in each of the 16 host cities across Canada, the United States and Mexico. And there's 11 in the United States. And it gives FIFA a hell of a lot more control.
9:20 Pablo Torre? Well, part of FIFA's American experiment is the understanding, we can't just deal with Trump alone, actually. It may seem like Trump is the key to everything because that is his own self-image and also what these videos suggest. But part of what you are learning as a legal immigrant to this country is that, wait a minute, these states and cities, you gotta go through them too. And this is something that I myself didn't really think about until I started reading your reporting, which has been, I mean, at this point, quite endless.
9:52 Speaker 05 And that has created real challenges for FIFA because it means you need agreements and buy-in and investments, not just from the federal government, but from states, from cities, from mayors. I mean, infamously now in Foxborough, which is the little town, the Gillette Stadium near to Boston.
10:10 Pablo Torre? Yes, home of the Patriots.
10:11 Speaker 05 The little town was refusing to give a license to FIFA for quite a while in the lead-up to this tournament because they were being asked to kind of front the bill.
10:21 Speaker 01 FIFA has less than two weeks to convince Foxborough town officials to let them host the seven matches at Gillette Stadium. The town says it won't issue a required license to organizers until it gets nearly $8 million upfront for security.
10:36 Speaker 05 They basically said, until someone else, whether that's FIFA, Boston, or the subsidiary host committee commits to covering this, we will not give you this entertainment license.
10:47 Pablo Torre? Yeah, one of the glories, it turns out, of sports federalism is local. It is the whole idea of the final, we're culminating this thing in New York slash New Jersey, which is a concept that has now been formalized in terms of signage.
11:02 Speaker 05 Oh, this has been crazy. So even going back to the beard. I mean, if you're looking back 2017, 2018, that's when the US won the hosting bid. At that point, it was put forward as, and this was the order, New York forward slash New Jersey. Do you say forward slash in the US?
11:20 Pablo Torre? We've been invaded enough by you Brits that now we do.
11:24 Speaker 05 I won't say anything else about invasions. So it was New York forward slash New Jersey. And that was how it was presented in the bid. That's what it's been for the last few years. But as the tensions have increased between FIFA, New Jersey, New York.
11:40 Pablo Torre? Right.
11:40 Speaker 05 New Jersey is hosting four teams during the tournament as base camp. So Brazil, Morocco, Haiti and Senegal will all be training in New Jersey. And New Jersey's put a hell of a lot of money in. It's around over 300 million, according to local reporting. And that has created a sense of, well, why is New York's name first? So that has led to one of the more, can I say petty requests?
12:05 Pablo Torre? So on the- One of the most New Jersey requests.
12:07 Speaker 05 Right, one of the more New Jersey requests. They would say it's just representing what we've put in. But the sign on the stadium, because remember, and we may get into this as well, the sponsor name stadium, so the naming rights on the stadium are not allowed during the World Cup.
12:21 Pablo Torre? Right.
12:22 Speaker 05 So MetLife Stadium is not MetLife Stadium during this tournament. It will say New York, New Jersey Stadium. And the signs have even been changed, physically changed. But there'll be two signs. And now, on a request from the governor's office, one of them will say New Jersey, New York Stadium. So these are just some of the little vignettes anecdotes that give a sense of the local and national dual challenge that FIFA have got.
12:47 Pablo Torre? Which is to say that there are lots of local, regional brands, identities, and they are not all thinking about this the same way.
12:56 Speaker 05 Yeah, I think it depends a little bit who you speak to. However, the frustration has been mounting.
13:04 Speaker 05 There's a lot of disagreements, there's a lot of challenges that they've encountered. You know, some of the terms that I've heard used, terms like "pigish" to describe FIFA. Others have used terms like "they're great negotiators", and at times they've been better negotiators than their American counterparts. There is even a clause in that host city contract, where I just want to read this right. So, you know, includes a clause that host cities must coordinate with FIFA on any public announcement, statement and/or public and private press briefing relating to a World Cup or a host city. Now, most cities have not coordinated with FIFA on private press briefings, I would say, given some of the conversations that I've had with them.
13:45 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say, yeah.
13:46 Speaker 05 But it does give a sense of the control they try and exert, right? And not only that they try and exert, but the control that the host cities themselves signed up to. And that is always worth remembering in this, you know. As much as FIFA may be cast as the kind of the bad guys in the room or, you know, being unfair, they signed the deal, right? Nobody had a gun to their head and forced them to sign this deal.
14:11 Pablo Torre? And this is why I'm so excited to do this episode and examine this folder of documents, because this is not FIFA saying with a weapon, "sign this or else", this is how the American World Cup gets made.
14:24 Speaker 05 Yeah.
14:24 Pablo Torre? And it's with consent, or at the very least, some understanding that this is all gonna be worth it.
14:32 Speaker 05 But there's a hell of a lot in there that I think many of them now regret signing up to.
14:54 Pablo Torre? So I want to open this folder up because you and the Athletic FC, our colleagues there, when you examine the accounting here, it does make sense to just explain. So, American cities are agreeing to pay. To foot the bill for the World Cup. And I get that with the Olympics, you know, like international governing body comes in, town cleans up, builds a new stadium. The stadium, who the [bleep] knows what happens to it? Tourists come, tourists go. It's sort of, it's ghost town, this like once sort of like sports Pompeii kind of vibe. FIFA's model, though, what they are selling is its own, is its own distinct package. How would you explain what's folded inside of it?
15:36 Speaker 05 I think the easiest thing is to say the things that FIFA get revenue wise and the things that the cities have to pay for. If you think about the things that FIFA will take the revenue from in terms of the big revenue levers of any major sporting event. So broadcasting, so that's your TV rates. Sponsorship, so that's your Coca-Cola, Qatar Airways, lots of different Saudi entities, a lot of money i- in terms of that. Concessions in the stadium goes to FIFA. Parking, the car park spaces, which in America, I'm learning, is a lot of money. Under FIFA, it's even more money. It's getting up to $200, $300 per parking space per game. And most of all, the ticket prices.
16:19 Speaker 05 So all of the revenue from the tickets goes to FIFA. Maybe some hospitality, there's some joint ventures in there. Then think about what the cities not are getting, what they're paying for.
16:31 Pablo Torre? Right.
16:32 Speaker 05 So cities being expected to provide transportation. Initially, that was meant to be free. It then became watered down to be at cost. So not supposed to be making any money on it essentially whatsoever. Even with the New Jersey Transit price, New Jersey Transit claim, they won't make money on that $98 ticket.
16:53 Speaker 01 More than $100 for a return trip from Penn Station to MetLife if you're riding NJ Transit this summer. The 18-mile journey, which takes a stop at Secaucus Junction, normally Just under thirteen dollars. To lower fares, school buses are gonna be used.
17:11 Speaker 05 What else do cities carry the financial burden for? Safety, security, protection, fire, police services, traffic support, medical services. But the thing about that to think about is, this is not just around a venue. Because the footprint of FIFA during the World Cup, it's transit hubs, it's fan festivals. All of those areas of town that become more busy as a result of soccer fans being in the place for that four, five week period. So Times Square, for example, I imagine is going to be full of soccer fans partying. That's gonna need more police resources. And that means a lot of these police departments are gonna be doing a lot of overtime, probably stopping their officers going on vacation so they can cope with the demands.
17:54 Speaker 05 And that all costs a lot of money, particularly in America, airports as well.
17:58 Pablo Torre? Right, right. And on some level, like I get like, security, very important, very expensive. But the reason I'm opening my folder here to this first massive file is that this is something that speaks to one of the terms that you mentioned, which is traffic support. And the notion of traffic support, it is, turns out codified in the host city agreement. I'm reading from the front page between Federation Internationale de Football Association. This is FIFA, based in Switzerland. And not only the United States Soccer Federation, but the city of Seattle. Parentheses, quote, host city authority. And in this, how would you explain what gets detailed?
18:43 Speaker 05 Pretty much everything is detailed, but I mean, if, if we just take that example, I mean, you were talking about like traffic support.
18:49 Pablo Torre? The host city authority shall support police escorts for the ground transport of team delegation members and referees on match days.
18:56 Speaker 05 Right. Nobody's gonna argue with that. What people might argue with a little bit is. The same should also be provided for the FIFA president, other VIP members of the FIFA delegation, and further VVIP members identified by FIFA. Now, nobody can really tell me what is a VIP compared to a VVIP.
19:19 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say VVIP is a level of V that I wasn't familiar with.
19:23 Speaker 05 And how offended would you be as a VIP? When the VVIPs are getting whatever they're getting.
19:29 Pablo Torre? As offended as the state of New Jersey.
19:31 Speaker 05 Right.
19:32 Pablo Torre? I would imagine.
19:33 Speaker 05 That's very offended. I would say on that, I think there's probably an argument that the FIFA president has become so high profile that maybe, maybe you can make that catch.
19:43 Pablo Torre? He's the emperor.
19:44 Speaker 05 The emperor of the World Cup, the king of soccer, Johnny. However, what the cities are now saying to me is these terms are very vague, right? What's to stop FIFA from saying there's 10,000 people who we consider to be VIPs? Who is a VIP? Are we just designating people who Johnny's woken up and decided, oh, he's very important, he needs a police escort? And it's not just the VIP, it's also, you've got these traffic lanes as well, these kind of express traffic lanes, which may have to be shut off for these people. So the cities are now sort of coming to terms with some of these asks, which are very, very expensive and just logistically difficult in some cities to create these lanes and these pathways.
20:28 Pablo Torre? One of the things that I've been fascinated by, though, is like, what has it been like for the head of a major American city to be approached by Johnny Infantino and his band of V and VVIPs, who are demanding all this stuff? When America, I would have imagined, isn't as desperate as countries that don't have the built-in.
20:54 Pablo Torre? Ego, I would have imagined, or, or resources.
20:57 Speaker 05 Particularly on the back of Qatar and Russia. So Qatar was a, a nation building project. And Russia was, I guess, a nation furnishing project in, in some ways. And therefore, these places really wanted this tournament. They were desperate for it. It was, it was a real national event. Now, I'm not saying America doesn't want the World Cup, because I think, I think many people in, in the States do want the World Cup and will enjoy the World Cup. And the soccer will be fantastic and it'll all be great. However, they don't need it in the same way as some of these other places. And even within the States themselves, like Kansas City maybe needs this tournament more than New York or LA or Miami.
21:41 Speaker 05 You then come up against cities who are saying, hang on, who do you think you are? And this was crystallized in a meeting that I was told about, which took place at SoFi Stadium. The stadium near Los Angeles in Inglewood. And this would have been when all the cities were doing their kind of pitches to FIFA and FIFA were pitching to them. And it would have been late 2021. And you had all the big sports leaders or representatives of the big sports teams in a room at SoFi Stadium. And you had FIFA executives. And FIFA were sending out, this is how it works. This is what we get. This is what you get. And then the head of the LA Sports Commission puts her hand up and says, sorry, can I just check what exactly are we getting out of this?
22:25 Speaker 05 And the answer that she got was essentially, this will put Los Angeles on the map. Right? And that's fascinating because it gives you an insight into how FIFA perceive themselves, that, that this is the biggest thing in the world. And soccer is the biggest sport in the world, right?
22:42 Pablo Torre? Absolutely.
22:43 Speaker 05 And it does have a huge reach and a huge, there's a globality to it that enables these places to reach new things. But then, you know, I spoke to someone who was in the room for that meeting and they're saying, hang on, we're the place of.
22:58 Speaker 05 The Oscars, the Grammys, the Emmys of Hollywood, of the Dodgers, the Lakers and FIFA are gonna put us on the map.
23:07 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I believe the quote in your article in The Athletic was, what did he just [bleep] say?
23:13 Speaker 05 I think that's it. It's that sense of, you know, we're Star Town. We don't need you guys. You need us, or we need each other. But we don't owe you in the way that perhaps some of these other places that have been bidding for World Cups may have that sense.
23:29 Pablo Torre? And something we really prize on this show is, to whatever extent possible, getting an unvarnished accounting of ego. And so one of the people that you talk to is someone who I want to introduce to our audience in case you weren't familiar with his line of work.
23:48 Speaker 05 So I guess first of all, if we just go back to the beginning of-
23:53 Speaker 01 Adam and Eve?
23:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, of Adam and Eve. I'm Adam. You can be Eve.
23:57 Speaker 01 May help me win the Democratic primary.
23:59 Speaker 05 It may do. It may do. Maybe we can get on to that.
24:03 Pablo Torre? Rahm Emanuel, former US Congressman, White House Chief of Staff under Barack Obama, who is kind of unsubtly interested in potentially becoming the President of the United States in 2028. Also, most crucially here, the mayor of Chicago from when to when?
24:20 Speaker 05 From 2011 to 2019. So it would have been during the period in which cities were in conversations about potentially hosting the World Cup.
24:29 Pablo Torre? Right. And he has been, I would say, sports curious for a long time, although his background is in ballet, which just gives an excuse to show this photo. But this is also the guy who got the NFL Draft to leave New York, got the NHL Draft to Chicago, got the NBA All-Star Game. He very strategically wanted these big sporting events for his city.
24:52 Speaker 01 I remember they said, well, this will be a great marketing for the city. I said, I don't need you for marketing. I just had the NFL Draft. I said, I don't need you. I said, you think Chicago needs you for marketing? I said, not happening. And I can't monetize marketing. You're taking cash and I get a marketing dollar of some intrinsic value. I said, I just, I said, I don't know who you talk to, who you negotiate with. But I said, I'm not doing that. I'm not like the smartest businessman. I said, but I've passed eighth grade math and the numbers don't work.
25:32 Pablo Torre? I should clarify that we here at Palpatour finds out a podcast supported by advertising loves marketing. We love it. But if you're the guy leading Chicago and you're getting this sales pitch and you're saying, we need something more concrete than the promise of brand value. It feels like that would be a hard sticking point.
25:55 Speaker 05 And it wasn't just what he just said there about marketing. I mean, he goes on to explain, there was lots of other challenges that Chicago had when they were looking at the deal. It involved potential commitments to what is described in FIFA's contracts as stadium overlay and kind of FIFA reserving the right to ask for adjustments or modifications to the stadium. But what he says they asked for was something pretty unique and pretty hard to imagine at what is a historic venue, which is Soldier Field.
26:29 Speaker 01 And I was trying to work my way to a yes, because I too was lured by this is one of the biggest events in the world, a sporting event, it would be a big thing for the city. Then they said in the contract that they had the right to request a dome being built over Soldier Field. And I said, well, I'm not, I said, you gotta take that out. They go, well, we never exercised it, but it's something we ask everybody. I said, I don't care if you've never exercised, there will always be a first, take it out. And I'll, you know, we can work through the other issues. And they said, we're not gonna, we can't take it out. I said, if you're not taking this out. That was kind of like. The straw that broke the camel's back. I said, uh-uh. You can't have something in there that leaves the city and the taxpayers exposed.
27:14 Speaker 01 So I just said, no. I said, if it's not out, we're out.
27:18 Pablo Torre? What's so interesting is that for Rahm Emanuel, this was a line that he cannot cross. And I get it, like putting a hat on Soldier Field is crazy. But at the same time, other cities, they're letting FIFA play around with their buildings. The NFL is giving way to soccer in ways that are comically tangible. There is this concept that we find as we get to page 126 in this, again, the host agreement case study that we have in this folder. We have this thing called the clean stadium obligation. Can you explain, Adam, what this means?
27:56 Speaker 05 Yes, the clean stadium obligation. Well, this is a great one because this is something which I think is, is pretty common with kind of mega sporting events, actually. But I don't think it's very common in America. And it sounds a bit insane, I think, to Americans. This is basically the idea that all of these stadiums around the country, we know them for the sponsor name. So in Atlanta, it's Mercedes-Benz Stadium. It's SoFi Stadium in LA. It's MetLife. AT&T Stadium in Dallas.
28:27 Pablo Torre? Yes.
28:28 Speaker 05 You get the gist.
28:29 Pablo Torre? And there are a few things more American than just internalizing corporate branding.
28:33 Speaker 05 Completely.
28:34 Pablo Torre? This is exactly the thing we also love.
28:36 Speaker 05 Completely. I mean, I guess one of them that wouldn't have been is Soldier Field.
28:39 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
28:39 Speaker 05 You know, that doesn't have a sponsor name. However, when FIFA take over these stadiums, you have to wipe all of this branding from all official communications, even, I mean, this is an extraordinary thing. I don't know if the cities have actually done this because it sounds too insane to do. From 14 days prior to the start of the first game for each city, you have to get the directional signage.
29:06 Speaker 05 In a place to be the new stadium name. So in what would ordinarily be a sign that says towards MetLife Stadium, it has to now say New York, New Jersey Stadium.
29:17 Pablo Torre? New Jersey, New York.
29:18 Speaker 05 Right. I mean, God knows what they're going to do there. But that just gives an impression and the host city has even signed up to say that they will basically do their utmost to ensure that official government communications about a stadium will use the FIFA name rather than the standard name.
29:34 Pablo Torre? This is FIFA saying, when the World Cup is happening in America, we are a universe that is consistent across this legal language.
29:43 Speaker 05 Yeah.
29:44 Pablo Torre? The stadium authorities shall make any room, area, building, facility, or section belonging to the stadium available for the competition according to the above requirements, which for the avoidance of doubt includes the entire premises. These requirements include no advertising, signage, or other commercial identification of any kind on any stands, scoreboard, seats, seatbacks, time clocks, staff uniforms, accreditation passes, fences, or elsewhere inside, surrounding, or in the airspace above and around the stadium, other than that which is installed by or in the direction of FIFA.
30:12 Speaker 05 I mean airspace above and around the stadium. I mean, I'm not sure what would be in the airspace in any case.
30:18 Pablo Torre? Try and fly a plane.
30:20 Speaker 05 Right.
30:21 Pablo Torre? And we can even watch Kansas City remove the name of typically what is known as G E H A Field at Arrowhead Stadium where the Chiefs play. Here is a crane taking away the A. The last.
30:36 Speaker 05 I mean, it's just when you watch that, it just feels like it's sort of a satire documentary, right, of some sort.
30:42 Pablo Torre? I was hoping they would just have it as a field.
30:46 Speaker 05 Right.
30:47 Pablo Torre? It is a field. Here it is. It's what you wanted.
30:49 Speaker 05 And it then became even more controversial because one city got an exemption. And this was Atlanta, Mercedes-Benz Stadium. And that's because the position of the stadium made it simply physically too hard to cover up. I mean, they did all the recs and checks to see if it would be possible. And the conclusion was they actually couldn't fix this without doing damage or costing a completely absurd amount of money. However, the other cities didn't know about this until it was reported by my colleague, Henry Bushnell. And then I started getting calls from some cities saying, well, if they're not doing it. We're not doing it.
31:26 Pablo Torre? I just think that as a solutions oriented podcast, we could have been helpful in pointing out that you just draw one more line on the Mercedes Benz insignia, which is on the hood of this stadium. And, you know, suddenly you have a peace symbol, Adam. Just a little graffiti.
31:42 Speaker 05 FIFA, of course, have done a partnership with Trump's Board of Peace. So it could have been.
31:46 Pablo Torre? We could have made money. We all could have made money on this.
31:49 Speaker 05 Yeah, we don't make money from peace, do we? We would never do that.
31:52 Pablo Torre? Never, never, never, never. So just from the level of control, I'm just thinking of like now putting all the characters in the same room together. I'm thinking of Rahm Emanuel. I'm thinking of Johnny Infantino at a table and what that powwow might have sounded like.
32:13 Speaker 01 I said, I don't know what any other mayor or governor is doing, but you expect me to treat the Chicago taxpayers as the dumb money at the table? You gotta be kidding me. I said, I'm not giving you taxpayer money. The taxpayers are going to be on the line for 100% of the risk. I said, I'm not signing it. And I was supposed to pay for 100% of what they wanted. I didn't even do that on my first date with my wife.
32:35 Speaker 05 With, um, one of the things we saw other states do.
32:38 Speaker 01 Hey, can you take that out? No, I'm joking.
32:43 Pablo Torre? And so Rahm, in the end, Chicago, really, in the end, they said, no.
32:50 Speaker 05 They said no, in the end. They had the reservations over the sponsorships, the stadium issue with the dome, about dropping sales tax on ticket admissions. And it all basically led the city of Chicago with the impression that they would be left in debt, that they would lose money by doing this. So they said no, but the way they said no was actually quite fun and mischievous because FIFA had said to them, you know, when they'd sent over documents, they said, we don't want any red lines, we just want the signed version.
33:22 Pablo Torre? Of course, we're not negotiating, just here it is.
33:25 Speaker 05 So what did this, what did Chicago do? They signed it, no blemishes, no red lines, but they put an asterisk underneath and it listed out all of their concerns, knowing that FIFA would never agree to those terms. So technically, Chicago did sign the documents and didn't withdraw per se.
33:43 Speaker 05 Because I guess FIFA would have been the final party in that to say no, but they presented it in such a mischievous and complex way that it was never going to be accepted.
33:53 Pablo Torre? Right, which is to say that Chicago in the end said, "We'll play by your rules, but also go [bleep] yourself."
34:01 Speaker 05 I'll let you say that.
34:06 Speaker 05 And I should say FIFA declined to comment on all of that.
34:10 Pablo Torre? Very good.
34:19 Pablo Torre? Hello, it's me Pablo. We have been very interested in what you guys actually like about this show. And so in the show notes, there is a survey. You'll find it magically as a link somewhere down there. And you can tell us what you want more of, what you want less of, what annoys you about me, and potentially all of my friends. We will use this to improve the show. It takes like 30 seconds, so please fill it out. And we will make this better, allegedly. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, like groceries, or merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop,
35:03 Pablo Torre? Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.
35:20 Pablo Torre? Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance, and IT.
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36:06 Pablo Torre? I want to turn us to Dallas. Because Dallas, I mean, in the NFL and American sports, this is the biggest thing. Jerry Jones, the Cowboys, all of that. But what FIFA is getting from this city is pretty remarkable, Adam.
36:23 Speaker 05 Yeah, so when FIFA go to a place, they need, and not unreasonably, they need what they call their kind of international broadcast center. So that's where your sort of your TV, your radio, your digital media will spend a lot of time. And that venue, it's like a 24/7 access for thousands of people during that time. But who do you think paid for it? After all the conversation we've had, who do you think might have paid for it?
36:49 Pablo Torre? Who paid for a 500,000 square foot command media center? I'm gonna guess the city of Dallas.
36:57 Speaker 05 Wow, you're getting good at this, right? You're starting to catch on.
37:00 Pablo Torre? I'm an investigative reporter.
37:01 Speaker 05 Right, tell me about it.
37:02 Pablo Torre? With a document that now can helpfully point out that on August 15, 2025, this is a city of Dallas insignia'd piece of paper, memorandum across the top. "Two honorable mayor and members of the city council, International Broadcast Center, IVC, will serve as the hub of television, radio and digital coverage for the tournament from January 14th to August 24th, 2026. The venue will operate under FIFA's exclusive control, providing 24/7 access for thousands of international journalists and technical staff. The city council and city leadership have committed to capital improvements, including roof repairs, drainage enhancements, climate control upgrades and infrastructure modifications to meet FIFA's technical and operational requirements, an investment capped at $15
37:46 Pablo Torre? million."
37:48 Speaker 05 Which everyone will be relieved that it's only $15 million, right?
37:51 Pablo Torre? I'm glad it's capped at $15 million. I was worried, man, can we at least keep it below $15 million in public money? And FIFA itself invested how much of this?
38:03 Speaker 05 FIFA did not, as far as I know, any of this. So it's pretty remarkable, really. And I mean, the best bit is, what do you think happens to this after the World Cup? This thing that's being constructed for FIFA, a cap of $15 million?
38:17 Pablo Torre? I'm hoping it becomes some sort of mall, some sort of...
38:22 Speaker 05 Some beautiful community center, somewhere where people can come together.
38:26 Pablo Torre? Exactly, a sculpture that lets us remember the friends we made along the way.
38:30 Speaker 05 No, it's getting knocked down.
38:32 Pablo Torre? Perfect.
38:32 Speaker 05 So, that's that, really? I'm not sure what more we can kind of add to it.
38:39 Pablo Torre? But you spin around the map here and the wrecking ball of FIFA, coming for the things that they're demanding to be constructed. I do want to go to the Midwest now because Kansas City, they've got to be the smallest of the 11 host cities.
38:58 Speaker 05 I think population wise, yeah, around just over 2 million maybe.
39:01 Pablo Torre? A proud soccer legacy.
39:03 Speaker 05 Proud soccer legacy. They of course call themselves the soccer capital. They do have kind of an MLS team. They have the Kansas City Current, don't they, as well in the NWSL? They built a fantastic stadium actually in Kansas City for the women's team. I think it was the first women's specific facility that was built. And they also appear to have fantastic training facilities because Argentina, which is the current holders of the men's World Cup, England, who are not the current holders of the men's World Cup, but maybe the future winners.
39:32 Pablo Torre? One day. It's coming home eventually.
39:33 Speaker 05 It's coming home eventually. It's just on a long, like me, it's on a long.
39:37 Pablo Torre? It's on loan.
39:37 Speaker 05 It's on loan to every other nation in the world seemingly.
39:42 Speaker 05 So Argentina, England, the Netherlands and Algeria will all be using Kansas City as their base.
39:48 Pablo Torre? But nonetheless, amid these six games, Kansas City, Kansas City Stadium, excuse me, is hosting. You know, they might get the quarterfinal, they might get Messi and Ronaldo. This is, I get it.
40:01 Speaker 05 I should jump on that because this could be actually one of the most extraordinary World Cup games ever. Messi and Ronaldo have never played each other at a World Cup and this will be their last World Cup. I mean, to be fair, he's like, Ronaldo just refuses to retire, so who knows? But you'd expect.
40:19 Pablo Torre? He might be seeking yet another term as well.
40:21 Speaker 05 Yes, absolutely. Like Gianni and potentially someone else.
40:26 Pablo Torre? Yes.
40:27 Speaker 05 But we think it'll be the last one. It'd be the first time they've ever played each other. It relies on both teams winning their groups and getting through to the quarterfinal. But if they do so, the roots, the brackets, which Americans love, I'm told.
40:39 Pablo Torre? Love bracketology.
40:41 Speaker 05 Means that they would meet in Kansas City, which is an absurd kind of. Idea, right, that these kind of two gladiators of soccer would eventually meet in Kansas City. So that would be an amazing game.
40:52 Pablo Torre? And so what did the public pay for the possibility, the privilege of hosting such matches?
40:58 Speaker 05 Well, I mean, this is just what is public and just what the host Camilla has said to us. So this doesn't include private donors, which would also be a very big number, I would imagine. So forty two point five million from the state of Missouri, because Kansas City is in Missouri.
41:15 Pablo Torre? That's right.
41:15 Speaker 05 Which is not easy to understand.
41:17 Pablo Torre? There is a Kansas, which is separate.
41:19 Speaker 05 Yeah, but then the state of Kansas has also given twenty eight million dollars, fourteen point eight million from Kansas City itself, and another one point five million from other public sources. So that brings us to eighty six, almost eighty seven million public investment just from the state of Missouri, the state of Kansas, Kansas City. Then there's also sixty ish million from federal security assistance, which was signed off by the Trump administration. And also thirteen point three million in federal grants towards transportation costs. So we're coming in there at least a hundred and seventy five million ish. That's just what's being disclosed at this point.
42:04 Pablo Torre? That's a lot.
42:05 Speaker 05 Right, that's a lot of money.
42:06 Pablo Torre? Six hundred and fifty thousand visitors is what the tourist board of the region, Visit KC, that's what they're saying.
42:12 Speaker 05 But I should say, just to interrupt on that, Visit KC have said six hundred and fifty thousand visitors. But actually, I think eighty percent of hotels who were surveyed recently by the hotel association were saying they are seeing lower than expected bookings. So there is a lot of skepticism at the moment in Kansas City that they will hit that target.
42:33 Pablo Torre? But speaking of accommodations, there is a particular big ticket item funded by taxpayers in Kansas City that, again, required a bit of a pop-up construction here, Adam.
42:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean, this is, of all the stories, I think, in the lead up to the World Cup, this is one of the more bizarre ones. A modular jail, so it feels to me a bit pop-up-y in that sense. Did you know that Kansas City has not had a jail since about two thousand and nine? And does that surprise you?
43:03 Pablo Torre? It is surprising because we live in, we live in America.
43:06 Speaker 05 Right, I was gonna say, something America, I thought, could do, I thought it would be. A city with jails.
43:12 Pablo Torre? Yeah, we do incarceration.
43:14 Speaker 05 Right. So they've not had a jail since 2009. That has been sort of something that's been spoken about in the city for a while. There's been some pressure from local businesses. Now, some of the city council members started to get the feeling of, well, we're gonna have a World Cup and we could have 650,000 visitors. And some of those smaller petty crimes could really start to ramp up. Because what they do at the moment is transport people over 50 miles out of town to jails in kind of neighboring places. So they said, we need a jail. And they said, we need a jail quickly because we might need it during the World Cup.
43:53 Pablo Torre? There could be a streaker.
43:55 Speaker 05 There could be, who knows?
43:56 Pablo Torre? A guy in a wolf costume could turn into a bank robber again.
44:00 Speaker 05 Yeah, and I think it was maybe based on perceptions of soccer fans that some people would argue are fair and accurate, that other people would say are typecast and a little bit outdated.
44:10 Pablo Torre? Yeah, despite your accent, hooliganism is known to us here.
44:15 Speaker 05 Right, well, you've not seen my hooliganism yet.
44:19 Pablo Torre? There's still time left in the show.
44:20 Speaker 05 So there could have been issues, whether it's, you know, people consume a lot of alcohol. If there's games between, I don't know. I don't know, I don't think Brazil and Argentina would play in Kansas City against each other. But, you know, where there's rivalry games.
44:33 Pablo Torre? Blood feuds, geopolitical conflicts coming home to roost inside of a field.
44:37 Speaker 05 Exactly, or even in the broader city fan zones, et cetera. So they said, we need this temporary jail before we can build our long planned bigger jail. So $22 million was committed to building this. And then a further 3.8 million was signed off in January with the aim of trying to ensure the construction of this jail, which would have had, I think, just over 100 beds or so ahead of the World Cup.
45:04 Pablo Torre? This is now 25.8 in totality. Who pays for that?
45:07 Speaker 05 The funding comes from something called the public safety sales tax, which is essentially quarter cent sales tax. From what I can see, that's around 24 million that that brings in a year. So this is essentially over the year's budget in order to do that. I should say, there was also a city council meeting in March at City Hall in Kansas City of the Transportation, Infrastructure and Operations Committee.
45:35 Speaker 07 Good morning, committee and chairs. I'm Roxana Reyes, a city architect with General Services. I'm just going to go over a brief construction update on the Front Street Detention Centre, formerly known as the temporary facility.
45:49 Speaker 05 And the city architect gave a construction update in which she provided some of the images for this jail.
45:57 Speaker 07 Are you able to see that? It looks like ICE Detention Centre. It's a big building, 200 by 250 feet. That's just what those pre-engineered metal buildings look like. Right there, that little bump out is the Sallyport. That's where vehicles will drive in, drop off and then drive out. No windows.
46:22 Pablo Torre? In a case you thought you heard a city councilwoman say, "It looks like an ICE detention centre", like whispering it, you are correct. She did say that and it does look like that, Adam, as we see also the observation at the end, "No windows".
46:42 Speaker 05 Yeah, and I should say, I mean, Melissa Robinson. Good morning, Melissa Robinson, our district vice chair. Who is the council member who said that, actually voted to approve the project. So this was city council members, I guess, seeing the fruits of what they had voted for.
46:59 Pablo Torre? This is like the worst episode of House Hunters. "It looks like an ICE detention centre. We love it."
47:06 Speaker 05 It's like, what have we done here?
47:08 Pablo Torre? It's a storage unit. It looks like a warehouse. I mean, it is functionally a warehouse, the kind that you retrofit into a detention centre.
47:16 Speaker 05 Right, and I think the architect subsequently said that kind of skylights would be cut in to the building somewhere to give some natural light.
47:24 Speaker 05 But yeah, not great.
47:27 Pablo Torre? And look, as much as I can follow the logic, the part that jumps out to me is that this is public money going towards the construction of this modular jail that is being built by a private contractor whose previous work is also worth noting here.
47:45 Speaker 05 Why is it worth noting, Pablo?
47:47 Pablo Torre? Well, because the company's name is KBR, and you may know them from previous detainee facilities, such as the one at?
47:54 Speaker 05 Guantanamo Bay.
47:56 Pablo Torre? Which is, again, just like, great. Glad we got the Guantanamo Bay guys to Kansas City. I'm glad the World Cup has brought us all together in this global village. And just the construction, the completion date of this, it said May of 26.
48:13 Speaker 05 This is the catch of the whole thing. The World Cup jail is not ready for the World Cup. So the anticipated completion date of May 2026, it's not ready. A spokesperson for the city manager's office told me detainees will now not be housed at the centre during the World Cup at all. They kind of said it is ready, but it's not operational. So that, to me, would suggest it's not ready. They blamed the manufacturer delivery schedule, staffing delays. And while they said, and this is a quote, "The World Cup was referenced in the ordinance and legislative process as part of the timing and urgency around the project. The purpose of the facility is broader than the World Cup."
48:57 Pablo Torre? We were always trying to do this pop-up jail in anticipation of the full-time prison, and this is just multiple, multiple birds, one single soccer ball-shaped stone.
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50:46 Pablo Torre? I want to apologize to our audience because we are making you do some basic math here. These are big numbers, trying to track them, trying to see what is the cost, what is the benefit? And this brings us to the thing I gotta illustrate before we let everyone go here, before we free you from our private prison, this studio. Because Johnny Infantino at the start promised $30 billion, and people have been complaining about ticket prices. And now, it seems, there was this solution. FIFA was going to do something quite generous, for the public, actually, because they agreed to waive what?
51:25 Speaker 05 Sales taxes on tickets. Now...
51:30 Speaker 05 This was kind of part of the bid expectations from FIFA, that sales tax on tickets would not be applied. And many of the states actually pushed back on this. You know, New Jersey is continuing to apply sales tax on tickets, Pennsylvania is, but three states agreed to do it, such was their, I guess, desperation or eagerness to to secure the World Cup. So the state of Georgia, which is Atlanta, the state of Florida, Miami, and the state of Missouri, once again our friends in Kansas City, who are putting so much in to this tournament. And that sales tax, when you combine what has been
52:12 Speaker 05 left on the table by cities through waving, particularly now that the ticket prices are a lot higher than anyone thought they were going to be.
52:20 Pablo Torre? Right.
52:21 Speaker 05 It combines to almost $60 million.
52:23 Pablo Torre? Yeah, the sales tax for Missouri was going to be 8.85%, which, you know, again, the way tax works, costs customers money, make it more expensive, but provides something back for the cities and therefore the public in terms of what the state had available to make back in terms of those costs and benefits.
52:43 Speaker 05 That's why people do it, because it's it's almost a way of getting a slice of the revenue. And what's really interesting about this is if we just take that Missouri one.
52:52 Pablo Torre? Yeah, let's focus on on just one case study here.
52:54 Speaker 05 They did a fiscal analysis before this was approved, which you attach to the bill, the fiscal note, and it was done by the Committee on Legislative Research in Missouri's Oversight Division. And they made some presumptions. Now, their presumptions were actually based on, well, they said they were based on the last World Cup in Qatar in 2022. The reality is, and they actually made a mistake, they were based on the 2018 World Cup in Russia. So their presumption.
53:28 Pablo Torre? Wait, I'm sorry. I just assumed that they had one job here, which was, can you just calculate this? And their calculation, you're saying, was?
53:37 Pablo Torre? Wrong.
53:38 Speaker 05 Well, it was impossible to know. We should say that, right? Like, you can't know in 2022 what FIFA are going to set as the prices in 2026. That's where we should give some grace.
53:48 Pablo Torre? Sure.
53:49 Speaker 05 However, they used numbers from 2018, so...
53:54 Pablo Torre? Which is not 2022, for those scoring at home.
53:57 Speaker 05 No.
53:58 Pablo Torre? And so what is the gap between what Missouri thought it was giving up versus what it was actually giving up by waiving taxes on ticket sales?
54:04 Speaker 05 I guess a couple of things we should clarify. Firstly, when they were making these calculations, the actual number of games hadn't yet been awarded. They didn't know how many games they would get or which games they would get. Now, what they did was because if you would just apply their methodology of using 2018 prices to the actual games they were given, it would have come out at basically leaving $5.9 million on the table. However, of the actual prices, and what we did was take an average of all of FIFA's ticket drops, which have been many, it comes out as $15.7 million compared to that $5.9 million. So that is a huge gap, really, in terms of what the expectation was.
54:49 Speaker 05 And a lot of money, really, that could have gone into a mixture of the state and local taxes, based on admissions, for the people of Missouri and Kansas City.
54:59 Pablo Torre? And by the way, just to clarify, like, that is a conservative estimate. You're being very responsible because hospitality pricing, the secondary market ticket resales, where FIFA is taking 15% from the buyer and the seller, that's not even incorporated into the...
55:13 Speaker 05 Yes, so we were kind. We were really kind to these states. Because what you never want to do in this case is grossly overestimate, and then they come back at you and say, "This is irresponsible," or whatever.
55:24 Pablo Torre? I would say gross overestimation is a thing we're all trying to avoid.
55:27 Speaker 05 Equally, we don't know at this stage if FIFA... We've presumed that FIFA are going to sell out.
55:33 Pablo Torre? Right.
55:34 Speaker 05 And there are some questions at this point as whether these stadiums will actually sell out, such as being the price point and some of the chaos that's been surrounding ticket sales.
55:44 Pablo Torre? So, all of this is to say that FIFA, in response to your reporting, in response to this folder full of documents, what do they say?
55:54 Speaker 05 They've not really replied for this collection of stories. So that's that. I guess they would say that, you know, they've they commit money through the 3.7 billion that they spend on the World Cup, but obviously a big amount of that is basically prize money for players and federations. And as I said at the start, nobody forced a city to apply for this. Nobody forced a city to agree to these terms.
56:24 Pablo Torre? And so there is one last document in your folder, which I want to read from because this one acknowledges a bunch of what you just said in writing. And this one is dated November 17th, 2025. It's to the CEO of the US Soccer Federation. And I just want to read through what some of this says because it's signed by, yeah, a bunch of US host cities. Seven actual World Cup, Men's World Cup host cities for this summer, and then 21 potential US host cities for the 2031 Women's World Cup, which is very interesting because what this whole document, the highlighted part we want to read here, is suggesting is that,
57:09 Pablo Torre? quote, "As you are aware, many US host cities are currently working through significant operational, financial, and contractual challenges stemming from the terms of the existing FIFA World Cup 26 hosting arrangements." And so this acknowledges the complexity and the frustration that has been conveyed through numbers and through your reporting. And what was the response when US Soccer received this letter?
57:38 Speaker 05 Well, the great thing about this is they didn't send the letter. They did not send the letter. They got it, they, all of these cities.
57:46 Pablo Torre? Why was it never sent?
57:47 Speaker 05 All of these cities came together in November because what FIFA wanted was to start getting agreements signed for the 2031 World Cup before the 26th World Cup had even started. But to see it written down by the cities and signed by all of these city representatives. So all that stuff we've been talking about, naming rights on stadiums, local taxes, all of those topics.
58:09 Pablo Torre? They say that we are firmly committed to delivering a successful FIFA Women's World Cup in the United States, one that is financially responsible, operationally feasible, and positioned to create lasting legacy benefits. I mean, it's acknowledging the very thing that, of course, seems far harder to accomplish.
58:28 Speaker 05 Yeah, and the reason they didn't send it is because I subsequently saw some correspondence between the cities, which basically said it was for PR reasons. They were worried that the letter would get out. And of course, the letter would never get out, would it, Pablo?
58:44 Pablo Torre? This is, I should say, not only a great exhibit in journalism, but it is also a great exhibit in what it means to be American, Adam Crafton. And if you want to stick around here, on behalf of America and also, and I will demand this, New York slash New Jersey, I do think I also should probably apologize on some level, because this has been probably all harder than it should have been.
59:14 Speaker 05 Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.
59:24 Pablo Torre? This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.
59:30 Pablo Torre? And I'll talk to you next time.
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