Andy Jassy’s Shareholder Letter, Meek Mill Joins the AI Race| Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02John Coogan?

  There is a ton of AI news. Andy Jassy released the 2025 Shareholders Letter. Amazon is known for fantastic Shareholders Letters dating back to 1997. I thought he did a good job of sort of resetting the AI narrative. There's this AI lab horse race going on. Of course, we've been covering it all week. Anthropic's Mythos preview and Project Glasswing launched on Tuesday, quickly followed by news today that OpenAI also plans to deliver a model with advanced cybersecurity capabilities to key internet infrastructure providers. And there's this debate going on over how and when these models will roll out. I think this is going to be an ongoing trend. I don't think cybersecurity is the last model capability that will be slowly delivered to key companies first.

• 0:47John Coogan?

  Cybersecurity is a perfect fit for powerful coding agents, and people have been digging into exactly how some of these zero-day exploits, some of these bugs and vulnerabilities, were discovered. And it makes a ton of sense that if you have a model that's fantastic at coding, it can basically try every single coding exploit, try new coding exploits across a huge number of open source packages, submit pull requests, and generally harden the internet infrastructure that we all rely on. So in general, it seems like the rollout of Mythos, although people are disappointed because they want to play with the latest and greatest model, even if it's very expensive,

• 1:25John Coogan?

  it seems like it's having a positive effect and should be a bit of a white pill for containing powerful models. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar happen in biosafety. Now, the biosafety AI research loop is a little bit longer because you might have to go to the lab. It's not entirely existing in a computer, in a virtual machine that you can spin up and just brute force reinforcement learning against. But you could imagine if a model... Developed capabilities, maybe in the next run, maybe in middle of this year. If a model becomes powerful enough to design a harmful virus or something like that, you would want the lab that creates that model to deliver that to the scientific

• 2:09John Coogan?

  community and companies that can protect the population against the development of new harmful biological viruses, just like we're protecting the internet against cybersecurity viruses. And so I'm not exactly sure where this all goes, what the other 10 steps are. But in general, it seems like there's going to be a pattern of a powerful model becomes capable of doing something that it makes sense to share with the particular community that can defend against that new capability. And then the entire community needs to make sure that that capability is carefully under control before releasing a version of that model that can still, you know, in the biosafety example, like you still want a model that can help you learn about biology, learn about

• 2:53John Coogan?

  how viruses are made, how they mutate. This is important for education and augmentation of the of scientists from, you know, high schoolers all the way to professionals. But the most advanced technology, it makes sense to put it in the hands of people that can actually have a real impact on that immediately before rolling it out broadly. But Andy Jassy sort of zoomed out and was stepping back from the horse race because Amazon's a partner with basically everyone in the ecosystem and has their own models. So he shared this shareholder letter, zooming out on the state of AI, the state of Amazon's plans. And he shares a bunch of very interesting anecdotes about his personal life.

• 3:37John Coogan?

  He says, "When I graduated from college, I wanted to be a sportscaster. After sending my resume reel to many small markets around the United States and only getting two nibbles, I settled on doing sports production at a major network. To make extra money, I coached my former high school soccer team and worked at a retail golf store. Six months later, a college classmate convinced me to interview at the consumer products company where he worked, and I spent three years as a product manager there. I left that job to try." Some of my own businesses. After deciding these businesses weren't my calling, I tried short stints at sales and investment banking before going back to grad school and ending up at Amazon three days after my last final exam in May 1997.

• 4:18John Coogan?

  Not exactly a straight line. He says AWS followed lots of squiggly lines too. And of course, Andy Jesse is the, by and large, the creator of AWS. That was his major project during his tenure. Founder. Yeah, deserves so much credit in building that business. The original vision included storage, compute, payments, and human intelligence. They had a product called Mechanical Turk where you could go and dispatch a specific task. You would have to build sort of a web UI. It was the original sort of data capture tool. But it could also be used for little things like manual translation tasks. People weren't really using it for customer support tickets, but

• 4:59Jordi Hays?

  Data labeling.

• 5:00John Coogan?

  Data labeling before you really needed mass data labeling. But it was that type of business. And there was always a question when Scale AI started, like, is this just Mechanical Turk? Is this business process outsourcing? Obviously, that went on to a fantastic outcome with Meta. But it became a different thing and quickly moved towards what we see in the in the expert networks and data collection. That's much more nuanced than a single task on demand. But AWS, this was in the vision. And they, and they wound up pulling away from that and sort of refocusing. So Andy Jesse says, some of those, e.g. storage and compute, became linchpins in AWS. Others didn't. Others didn't succeed. We didn't initially plan a database service. And when we built one, our first attempt failed to get traction.

• 5:45John Coogan?

  We went back to the drawing board and built new relational and non-relational databases, which have resonated well and become core to millions of AWS applications. When we launched EC2, our compute service, it was a single instance in one availability zone, Linux only. With no auto scaling, load balancing, block storage, or private networking. Over the time, we added those capabilities and hundreds more services. And you see that when you go into the AWS dashboard. It is chock full of different products. AWS was initially attractive to startups. Companies like DoorDash, Dropbox, Pinterest, Slack, and Stripe were among many that built their businesses on AWS. Pundits said enterprises and governments would never use AWS for anything substantive. But in 2008, Netflix, which was delivering DVDs in the mail for almost a decade at that point,

• 6:30John Coogan?

  decided to move all of their applications to AWS. Then came big commitments from GE, Intuit, and others. And eventually, the CIA chose AWS as their partner to build their classified cloud. Growth came fast and furious, and as it accelerated, so too did our capital expenditures, CapEx, with a dilutive impact on free cash flow. And so, he's starting to make the case that there's this trade off between free cash flow and CapEx. And this will come back when he talks about his plans for taking advantage of the AI boom. So he says, "At our 2014, more than 12 years ago, AWS Operating Plan Review, the discussion started with a senior leader at the company musing, 'Tell me why we're doing this business? Like, why are we doing this?

• 7:13John Coogan?

  It was confusing, and it was very different from being an online bookstore, and then eventually the everything store. But it felt different, but then eventually it started working." He's reflecting on his career and the twists and turns in building AWS. He says, "Most long-term endeavors do not follow a linear straight line up and to the right. Progress jumps around. It'll zig up, then sometimes stall, or zag down, or force you back to the starting line. Sometimes it feels like you're running in circles, but the path is rarely straight. That's because the world is complex, and new technology, business model invention, competitors, global issues, or people and cultural shifts can come into play. When we're in the middle of some of the biggest inflections of our lifetime,

• 7:56John Coogan?

  e.g. AI, robotics, space, industrialization, geopolitical and military conflict, and just as proficient golfers need to be skilled across driving, approach shots, chipping, and putting, durable companies must be..." Adept at managing different elements of inflections. He talks about how broad Amazon is these days. Retail logistics, AWS, ads, Kindle, Alexa, pharmacy. There are too many new efforts to in-flight to mention them all. The long push to to bring robotic automation, acquiring Kiva in 2012. He also talks about all of the benefits that Amazon has brought to rural customers, but who are often deprioritized by logistics. This is a classic thing when you launch an e-commerce site.

• 8:40John Coogan?

  Do you apply your flat rate shipping to Alaska? Because every time someone ships something to Alaska, it's going to charge you an arm and a leg. And he's also focusing on closing the digital divide in rural communities. So things like high-speed internet access, internet, LEO. He's been talking about Amazon LEO, the low earth orbit satellite network. He makes this point that Amazon must be willing to pursue parallel paths when it's unclear what'll best drive the trajectory, the desired trajectory. He says, two is greater than zero. When I was a kid, I used to go to New York Ranger games, New York Rangers games with my dad. I loved hockey and it was a high-quality time together. I looked up to my dad, still do, and hung on his every word.

• 9:23John Coogan?

  One game, my dad noticed that one of the Rangers defenseman, Dallas Smith, had gone missing from the bench and stood up and exclaimed, where's Dallas? To which a nearby fan said, in Texas, moron. So, yes, it's very weird that his name is Dallas, I guess. Is that the, that's the confusion? So, yes, it's fairly obvious that two is greater than zero. But too often, companies focus on what looks most tidy instead of ensuring they have enough efforts in play to achieve an important outcome. Let's go back to fast delivery in our retail business. We know how much customers crave it and we see higher order completion rates when delivery promises are faster. So he talks about, you know, all the things that we know about Whole Foods and rolling out more stores, rolling out more just investments in the core Amazon.

• 10:08John Coogan?

  Business, but then he goes on to talk about artificial intelligence. And he says, if there's an obvious path to changing your trajectory, take it and run. But most new jumps aren't forward like that. There's invention and experimentation required. And pursuing multiple paths gives you the best chance to find it. When you identify disproportionate inflections, that big. Choosing which inflections are truly seminal versus just interesting requires judgment. Reasonable people can disagree, but if you believe you've found one of these disproportionate shifts, you want to invest as aggressively as you possibly can. This will create investment spikes that will invite scrutiny, but the game changers don't typically accommodate smoother investment horizons. One of these, one of these seminal shifts, of course, he says, is AI. He says, we've never seen a technology more quickly adopted than AI.

• 10:49John Coogan?

  When ChatGPT launched in November of 2022, it reached 100 million users in two months, four times faster than TikTok and 15 times faster than Instagram. ChatGPT already has over 900 million weekly active users. Both OpenAI and Anthropic have run revenue run rates reportedly approaching $30 billion. These are breathtaking numbers for companies this soon after their commercial launches. And he has this great throwback to Thomas Edison and the dawn of electricity. A lot of people are looking for comparisons for what AI pattern matches to. And he goes back to the first commercial power station, which launched in 1882. So at the time, most people understood the first commercial power station

• 11:33John Coogan?

  as a way, a better way to light a room. That was going to be the main benefit of electricity. It was going to replace lamps and you were going to have electric lights. But what they couldn't see was that electricity would eventually reorganize every factory, home and industry on earth. And he says that AI may have a comparable impact. The difference is that electricity took 40 years to get where it was going, and AI appears to be moving 10 times faster. And he says that Amazon's smack dab in the, in the middle of this land rush, and companies are choosing AWS for AI. Three years after AWS launched commercially, it had a $58 million run rate. Three years in, and Amazon was already a big business at that time. So, you know, he's talking about the twists and turns of launching AWS. It's a

• 12:18John Coogan?

  You know, a lot of products that worked.

• 12:20Jordi Hays?

  Seems so quaint.

• 12:20John Coogan?

  It's very quaint to be three years in, have the backing of, you know, a massive company, and still, three years in, only hit 58 million in run rate. He compares it to three years into the AI wave, which of course started in 2023, basically, and now we're in 2026. AWS's AI revenue run rate is over $15 billion in Q1 of 2026, which is nearly 260 times bigger than AWS was at the same point, and it's ascending rapidly. And so, he highlights a bunch of reasons why customers are choosing AWS for AI. Obviously, they have a product in sort of every single category now: model building,

• 13:02John Coogan?

  high-performance inference, lower-cost inference that runs on Tranium, their custom silicon, agent building, secure environments, et cetera. But he says that AWS could actually be growing faster, and they are, in fact, limited on capacity. So AWS added 3.9 gigawatts of new power capacity in 2025 and expects to double total power capacity by the end of 2027. And AWS is monetizing that capacity as fast as it's installed. In Q4 2025, AWS reported 24% year-over-year growth and a $142 billion revenue run rate. That's a lot of absolute growth, and yet, we still have capacity constraints that yield unserved demand. As an aside, two large AWS customers have already asked if they could buy all of the

• 13:45John Coogan?

  Graviton instance capacity in 2026, which is their widely adopted custom CPU chip. And he says, "We can't agree to these requests, given other customers' needs. You can't just say, 'Okay, we're giving everything to one company.'" But it gives you an idea of the demand.

• 14:00Jordi Hays?

  Touched on a bunch of different stuff. I think this is what people wanted out of Jassy, like, about a year ago, right?

• 14:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:07Jordi Hays?

  He was getting, you know, people were constantly kind of chirping at Amazon leadership and wanting some kind of, like, basically... Lay of the land like this to show that Amazon had a broad understanding and actually had, you know, real leadership and was committed, committed to, you know, being, being a real player.

• 14:33John Coogan?

  Uh, well, in other Amazon news, Amazon Pharmacy to offer Eli Lilly and company's new GLP-1 pill, foundayyo, via same-day delivery. Shiel Monat says this thing is going to fly. Amazon is up 3%. I don't know if it's on this news.

• 14:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it's, it's hard to say. Amazon's actually almost up 5% today and I would, I would expect that to be because of the letter, but people tend to buy a lot of GLP-1 drugs, too.

• 15:01John Coogan?

  There's so much skepticism about fly-by-night peptide operations, where are they being compounded, are they safe, do they contain even what you think they contain, and giving consumers an option that's something as, you know, established as Amazon with all of the guardrails that they have in place feels like a very positive move for consumers.

• 15:22Jordi Hays?

  Before we jump into the next story, Jassy did share a letter to shareholders from 1997.

• 15:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:30Jordi Hays?

  And there was, I'll read the first two paragraphs.

• 15:33John Coogan?

  That's really good.

• 15:34Jordi Hays?

  To our shareholders, amazon.com passed many milestones in 1997. By year-end, we have served more than one and a half million customers, yielding 838% revenue growth to 147.8 million.

• 15:46John Coogan?

  Correct.

• 15:46Jordi Hays?

  And extended our market leadership despite aggressive competitive entry. But this is day one for the internet, and if we execute well for amazon.com. Today, online commerce saves customers money and time. Time and money, save both. Tomorrow, through personalization, online commerce will accelerate the very process of discovery. Amazon uses the internet to create real value for its customers, and by doing, doing so, hopes to create an enduring franchise even in established and large markets. Well, they certainly did that. And the letter goes on to talk about how it's all about the long term. So even back then, growing like absolute crazy, still, you know, wanting people to think about, think in decades. And so Jassy doing that now. And they have a good track record.

• 16:30John Coogan?

  I mean, Amazon's had decades of drawing down on free cash flow to invest in the future and they've had a long history of communicating that effectively to the community and to the shareholders.

• 16:43Jordi Hays?

  Level to which people miss the ads. This is never, I don't think this has ever happened before.

• 16:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Jordi Hays?

  In the history of podcasting.

• 16:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Jordi Hays?

  We miss the ads too.

• 16:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, all we have now is.

• 16:59John Coogan?

  Well, there's a debate on the timeline about OpenAI's new cyber security product. There was a post that was deleted and then Axios issued an update. Basically, the question was, OpenAI is launching a new model rumored to be called Spud, trained on Blackwell, sort of similar, you know, big model, lots of capabilities. And OpenAI has been working on cyber security products. Will they gate the rollout similarly? Are they running the same playbook? Will they take a different path? At what point will they make their models available? And people are going back and forth. And Andrew Curran is sort of clarifying here that the new model and the cyber security

• 17:43John Coogan?

  product are separate and only the cyber security specialized model will have a limited release, not the new model itself. So it looks like a general public release for Spud. Dan Shipper shared some extra commentary around this. The Axios story floating around about OpenAI limiting the release of their newest model Spud isn't true. He just spoke to OpenAI and it appears the story conflated two things. They do have a cyber product. They are testing with a trusted tester group, but this is not the same thing as Spud. The Axios story has now been updated.

• 18:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, there's a very, there's a very strong argument to never release a model publicly that is specifically optimized for cyber.

• 18:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:22Jordi Hays?

  Because like you're just inviting a bunch, like think about like the teenagers out there. I now get to be a super powerful hacker, even though you're just kind of like, probably should just be vibe coding like a fun little app or something like that, right?

• 18:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Jordi Hays?

  And so.

• 18:37John Coogan?

  You would think having some cyber security capabilities in the model would just be better if you're vibe coding a product, it becomes secure out of the box.

• 18:47Jordi Hays?

  I'm just saying, I'm just saying like, having this super powerful like cyber focused product shouldn't be. The kind of thing that anyone like you should probably have to KYC.

• 18:56John Coogan?

  Yeah, sure, sure. Well, yeah, what do you think about?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, also, I think, you know, when you zoom out on AI progress, it is like, it is like very smooth. Where like, people were talking about this with Mythos yesterday, where like, well, actually, if you run even like an open source model, and you actually run enough times, you actually can find similar, you know, exploits. And it's just like kind of the efficiency of the new model versus the smaller open source ones. I'm pretty sure right now I could take, you know, 5.4 and I could just run it a bunch of times and I could find a lot of exploits. Like, people have the capabilities right now. Maybe it's like a little bit harder. Sure, yeah. But, and also, like, yeah, I think, I mean, at some point, like, a lot of the coding agents, I think, you'll just see, like, in the, you know, in the system prompt or whatever of the coding agents, it'll be like, yeah, make sure you're checking to see if any, if there's like big security vulnerabilities.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Even right now, you can just ask Codex, whatever, you're building something, like, are there errors? Are there, you know, security problems? And it'll solve them.

• 19:50John Coogan?

  And this is the nature of every, every advanced model is that in order to understand how to fight something, you'd have to know how to build it. And this is true. I mean, I'm sure that the folks at CrowdStrike or Palo Alto Networks, like, could definitely, if they went black hat, it would be bad for everyone, even in the pre-AI era, and that remains true. Having at least as much economic incentive as possible to put the resources and the tokens and the inference budgets towards like white hat hacking is good. There's also, somebody in the chat is making the comment that there's a lot of precedent for this with bug bounties and like time disclosures. So oftentimes, white hat hackers will go to companies and say, we found a really bad vulnerability.

• 20:33John Coogan?

  We're giving you 90 days until we publish it, but it is in the public interest to know that this, that this vulnerability exists broadly. So we have to release it, but also we want to give you the time to react to this. And so it feels like you're sort of holding that company hostage a little bit. It can be a little bit tense. If it's done carefully, it can be sort of a win-win.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  But I think regardless, like, I think more KYC is probably the future, right? Even if you're just talking about like risk. Risk of distillation, stuff like this. I think I've talked about this before where like, yeah, at some point you need, you need more KYC to ensure like people aren't just like training off the model or doing like nefarious things.

• 21:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:13Jordi Hays?

  Uh, Meek Mill pulled out a slide from Bill Ackman. The slide says, "A small percentage of songs are listened to. The overwhelming majority of music tracks receive zero or minimal engagement. AI is poised to exacerbate this reality." And so it shows that 0.2% of songs are culturally and commercially relevant. Commercially, they relevant is 10% of songs streamed 1,000 to 100,000 times. And then Meek is dropping that into what looks like Claude saying, "You're not in that 88%. You already skipped the whole bottom of the pyramid. You're already in that top 0.2%. People know your name. They search for you specifically. They stream on purpose. That changes everything. You already have the hardest thing, attention. You don't need the algorithm to find you.

• 21:58Jordi Hays?

  Your fans already look for you." So while AI is flooding the market with millions of trash songs that don't, this is AI throwing AI under the bus. This is crazy. Your catalog just sits there collecting streams because people want Meek, not just a rap song. And Dimes Square Holding says, "First in my bloodline to see a rapper with AI psychosis", commenting on a deck from.

• 22:22John Coogan?

  I think it's a, I think it's a reasonable.

• 22:25Jordi Hays?

  It's a reasonable analysis.

• 22:26John Coogan?

  Reasonable analysis.

• 22:27Jordi Hays?

  I just think it's, I just think it's a little bit unfair for the AI to be dunking on the other AI. It's kind of like a crabs, crabs in the bucket.

• 22:36John Coogan?

  There's a whole story about this in the journal the other day about a local group that's lobbying against data center development using AI tools, ChatGPT, like very heavily to understand the legal code, how they can, how they can organize, who they should be calling. It sort of feels like a good use of AI in the sense that they're exercising their democratic rights properly through the correct channels. Like it could be so much worse. I don't know. What do you think?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, hopefully like by using the model like models enough, they'll be like, oh, wait, this is actually good.

• 23:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, or like, or like, there are some parts that I like narrowly, but do we need this data center in my neighborhood? Maybe not.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:18John Coogan?

  And they can.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Also, specifically on this, I think it's interesting, like, among celebrities, it seems like rappers specifically are like really leaning in a lot more than other like types of celebrities, right?

• 23:27John Coogan?

  Oh, interesting.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  See, like, Little Baby.

• 23:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Little Baby, not Little Baby.

• 23:30John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Uh, there was a post yesterday about someone who who got paid to like set up OpenClaw Forum.

• 23:35John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  You've seen this a bunch, yeah. It's just funny, like, you don't see actors talking about their.

• 23:39Jordi Hays?

  Baby Keem, Little Baby was second after Baby Keem.

• 23:42John Coogan?

  Yeah, that's right, that's right. Uh, I mean, Matthew McConaughey had some words about AI, saying.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, when he was gonna log in, he needs to log in.

• 23:49John Coogan?

  Well, no, that was separate. Uh, like, wasn't it like months, it was like months, months, months and months later, he was like, this is coming, like, you need to be prepared for this, you need to work alongside of it.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he's not talking about his specific.

• 24:00John Coogan?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess Ben Affleck had that company, right?

• 24:04John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, uh, yeah.

• 24:06Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, Ben, Ben Affleck already got the, uh, the nine-figure exit. He's good.

• 24:12John Coogan?

  Yeah, but you would, you, you would imagine that, uh, that AI actually might be a useful tool for understanding the impact of building a data center in a particular community because everyone is debating the, the economic impact, how many jobs will be created, what's the environmental impact, and, uh, being able to crunch through all the, all those trade offs so that the community gets to a net, like, a net positive impact that the population can basically vote on and be happy about and say, yeah, like, we made this trade off properly and we feel like we're getting the benefit because maybe it's generating a lot of tax revenue, maybe the tax revenue is very durable, maybe the tax revenue is going to the right place. Is it going to a tax refund? Because, or is it going towards a project that people don't actually support? And so there's a whole other question of,

• 24:57John Coogan?

  uh, for the local community. Is that tax revenue meaningful? Like, what dollar value do they put on new tax revenues for the city? Depends on what the city's building or doing with that with that revenue. Here's another like self referential thing like, you know, AI. Should AI be used to fight data center construction? Today, Meta began removing ads from attorneys who were seeking clients that claim to be harmed by social media while under the age of 18. And so there's been, these class action lawsuits have been a big, a big, you see them on social media all the time. Usually it's some sort of data breach or some sort of, you know, random product that they're targeting you for.

• 25:41John Coogan?

  And I feel like many people just sort of scroll past them because the default class action is like you wait a long time and then maybe you get a check for $5 in the mail. But Meta has begun removing advertisements from attorneys. What is their justification for this? Lawyers across the country are now seeking new plaintiffs in the hopes of bringing a class action lawsuit that could result in lucrative verdicts. It's unclear if any of them have been backed by private equity, as the California lawsuit appears to have been. Axios has identified more than a dozen such ads that were deactivated today, some of which came from large national firms like Morgan and Morgan. Almost all of them ran on Facebook and Instagram. Some appeared on Threads and Messenger, plus Meta's audience network.

• 26:23John Coogan?

  One such ad read, anxiety, depression, withdrawal, self harm. These aren't just teenage phases, they're symptoms late to social media addiction in children. Platforms knew this and kept targeting kids anyway.

• 26:34Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so Meta has something in their terms of service that says, we also can remove or restrict access to content, features, services, or information if we determine that doing so is reasonably necessary to avoid or mitigate misuse of our services or adverse legal or regulatory impacts to Meta.

• 26:50John Coogan?

  Huh.

• 26:51Jordi Hays?

  It's basically like, we're not going to let you use our product to take legal action against us.

• 26:57John Coogan?

  Yeah, I wonder where where the class action recruiting will go next, you know.

• 27:03Jordi Hays?

  It'll go everywhere else.

• 27:05John Coogan?

  Maybe out of home?

• 27:06Jordi Hays?

  Out of home.

• 27:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Jordi Hays?

  Could go on podcasts.

• 27:09John Coogan?

  I mean, it's such a broad case that, yeah, well, YouTube is another.

• 27:13Jordi Hays?

  It's easy to, it's relatively easy to reach like Facebook and Instagram users.

• 27:17John Coogan?

  Yeah, especially young people.

• 27:18Jordi Hays?

  Everyone.

• 27:18John Coogan?

  It's everyone, yeah, so they, they just need to cast a wide net, but it'll be interesting to see how that, how that develops.

• 27:24Jordi Hays?

  Has anyone built an out of home advertising network for classrooms?

• 27:29John Coogan?

  Classrooms? What do you mean?

• 27:31Jordi Hays?

  Like teachers?

• 27:32John Coogan?

  I don't think people want to advertise to people.

• 27:36Jordi Hays?

  Kidding, kidding, kidding.

• 27:37John Coogan?

  We'll see you tomorrow. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter.