#314 - Chinese Defector: 1 Billion People Have Gone Missing in China | Lei's Real Talk

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Lei is an expert in Chinese finance, censorship, and life under a totalitarian government & brings a unique perspective to analyzing and interpreting geopolitics, with a particular focus on China and Sino-U. S. relations. Being bilingual and having grown up in China gives Lei a distinct advantage in accurately interpreting Chinese politics and economic affairs with native knowledge. SPONSORS https://dupe.com - Find similar products for less. 100% free to use. Stop wasting $$ on brand names. https://shopmando.com - Use code DANNY for 20% off plus FREE shipping. https://inda.shop/danny - Use code DANNY for 25% off + FREE shipping. (Must be 21+) https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Lei's Real Talk YouTube Channel: @LeisRealTalk Lei's Looking Glass: @LeisLookingGlass FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - How to spot a Chinese spy 09:17 - Xi Jinping is losing power 20:09 - Why Xi Jinping hasn't named a successor 23:12 - China's "soft" takeover of Taiwan 34:50 - China's CCP isn't legitimate 38:00 - China is lying about their population data 45:31 - Do Chinese citizens like their government? 48:47 - Chinese spies have infiltrated the U. S. 54:51 - Lei's emigration from China 01:07:35 - Chinese communists send their kids to Harvard 01:18:56 - Chinese surveillance on Chinese-Americans 01:27:14 - DOGE & Elon's "everything app" 01:35:34 - A cyber war will reset our technology 01:40:35 - How Xi Jinping will be removed from power 01:49:36 - Chinese citizens have Stockholm Syndrome 01:59:20 - Chinese cancer-inducing drugs 02:07:13 - Chinese organ harvesting camps 02:13:57 - Living under China's social credit system 02:28:28 - The importance of feng shui 02:31:43 - The prophecies of Xi Jinping 02:37:53 - Chinese obsession with invisible science 02:44:33 - 1 billion people have gone missing in China 02:55:41 - Male & female culture in China Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I don't know what I'm doing. Need a break. Forget it, I quit.

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• 0:30Speaker 02

  Para los grandes, para los chicos, para los bajos y los altos, los pacifistas, los valientes. Para los optimistas y los pesimistas, los que valoran lo de adentro. Para los que están lejos, los que no ven de lejos, y los que no ven de cerca. Para los introvertidos y los extrovertidos, para los que piensan y los que hacen. Para los que nos mostraron el camino. Coca-Cola. Para todos. Compra una Coca-Cola en una tienda cerca de usted.

• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Lay with no last name.

• 1:09Speaker 05

  Lay with... Lay from Lay's Real Talk.

• 1:12Danny Jones?

  From Lay's Real Talk.

• 1:13Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:14Danny Jones?

  And you keep your name secret from the world?

• 1:16Speaker 05

  Um, well, in the beginning, you know, when I first came to this country, people don't know how to pronounce my last name. So I always got very embarrassed, you know? When I was in college, you know, you know how professors always read all the names in the... on the first day? And then, whenever they get stuck, I know it's me. Lay, uh, Lay, you know, and then, I know, that's me.

• 1:40Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:41Speaker 05

  So I grew up always feeling very embarrassed about my... about my last name.

• 1:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:46Speaker 05

  Whether in Chinese or in English. In Chinese is also not a common last name, so, yeah.

• 1:52Danny Jones?

  But that's not the real reason you hide your name, right? You want... you don't want, uh, you want... you don't want the Chinese government coming after you? Or are you afraid because of all this, uh, work that you're doing to expose what they're doing, uh, they could potentially come down on you?

• 2:07Speaker 05

  Yes, that too. I just want to stay private.

• 2:11Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:12Danny Jones?

  Has anyone ever accused you of being a spy?

• 2:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:16Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:17Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't appear, I mean, do I look like a spy?

• 2:20Danny Jones?

  No, but that would mean you're doing a great job.

• 2:22Speaker 05

  I mean, not looking like a spy?

• 2:25Danny Jones?

  I'm also not really trained in pointing out or figuring out spies. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really, I wouldn't be able to uncover a spy if I was looking, staring, you know, at a line above people.

• 2:36Speaker 05

  I, I know how to spot a Chinese spy.

• 2:40Danny Jones?

  You do?

• 2:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, a professional one.

• 2:42Danny Jones?

  How did you learn how to do that?

• 2:44Speaker 05

  Okay, well, first of all, I studied, I, I studied, I mean, when I was doing my YouTube programs or during my YouTube programs, I did a lot of research on Chinese spies.

• 2:56Speaker 05

  They look very ordinary. They're never too tall, never too short, not strikingly looking, not ugly looking either. They're just very, very ordinary, to the point that even though you've met them a couple of times, but when, when you do meet them again, you don't even remember when you last saw them. That's how ordinary they are.

• 3:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, and they don't come from extraordinary.

• 3:22Danny Jones?

  Like, forgettable?

• 3:23Speaker 05

  Forgettable. They blend in. They don't leave a lasting impression on people. If they do, they don't qualify.

• 3:35Danny Jones?

  That would make sense.

• 3:36Speaker 05

  That would make sense, yes.

• 3:37Danny Jones?

  Yes. So for people who aren't familiar with you, can you tell people basically what you're doing with your YouTube channel? And how you came to understand this? All of the in and outs and nuances and happenings like deep within the Chinese government and the regime? And even like picking apart the media that comes across, the, the, the media is disseminated in US, the US about China and, you know?

• 4:12Danny Jones?

  You know, basically, just just give us a rundown of of what you do on your YouTube channel and and the stuff that you cover and how you became came to do this.

• 4:19Speaker 05

  Well, I've always been a person who is tenaciously curious about things. I always ask the question, why? To the point that it could annoy people. And I have a passion about, you know, telling people in the West about China and also telling Chinese people about the West. I call myself the bridge between the East and West. I mean, that's a cliche, right? So now during COVID, I mean, 2020 was the year that changed a lot of things. There were two things that happened that had a lasting impression on me was first was the COVID. We were all locked down. We were all at home. And the second was the 2020 election.

• 5:05Speaker 05

  As someone who has lived in a totalitarian country, things didn't look normal at all in 2020. It reminded me of what we experienced in China. I remember we had a family discussion. My aunt was saying, you know, if America is going to become like China or Communist China, we have nowhere to go. I mean, we came to this country, right? For freedom, freedom of speech and democracy, but it seems like that's fleeting. So that was that was the time when when I was really thinking about, well, what can I do about it? Right?

• 5:47Speaker 05

  And it was very random because I'm not even in, I was never a person interested in politics or geopolitics. Last thing on my reading list, never.

• 5:57Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 5:58Speaker 05

  Uh-uh. No.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  But then, you know, once you're curious about the whys, then you start looking.

• 6:09Speaker 05

  And I think the the decision to to become YouTube was totally random. Someone mentioned it to me, you know, once, and another person mentioned it to me. And I said to myself, well, if there's a third person telling me that I should, you know, do something, you know, to have my own channel, I'll do it. I even, I remember it was Wednesday and I said, if I hear this from a third person by Friday, I would do it.

• 6:33Danny Jones?

  Did you have no experience in journalism or media or anything like that before you started posting on YouTube?

• 6:41Speaker 05

  No, I mean, a little bit. I I worked for a Chinese American TV network.

• 6:46Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 6:47Speaker 05

  Um, you know, but it was more of a marketing and outreach and, you know, PR kind of a role. Event kind of a role, not so much journalism.

• 6:57Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  Um, so, yeah. But I always say there's a, there's a gap, a huge gap between information that's available in Chinese language, uh, media landscape or social media landscape, landscape versus what's available in in in the English speaking world. There's so much more available to us, you know, some are truth, some are half truths, some are lies, some are rumors, but they're all out there and some are citizens' own discussions amongst themselves about what's happening in China. They're all out there. So if you spend enough time, you know, deciphering and then organizing them and analyzing them, then you

• 7:41Speaker 05

  inevitably will see the, you know, truth. But the West or the Western speaking or the the Western world doesn't have access to that. And so that's where I come in to fill that void or or to bridge that disconnect.

• 7:57Danny Jones?

  So are you able to read and translate all of the media that is transmitted within China from the US? Or is there stuff that we cannot access here from?

• 8:09Speaker 05

  Um, I mean, of course, you read the state media, I mean, state media propaganda. So you know what they're trying to push, their narratives. And then you listen to these pro-democracy uh, media personalities or social media influencers. They tell you something that's very different.

• 8:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, they have their own social media influencers.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  Yes, yeah, these are the most outspoken people. Uh, but they're based in the West, so they are free to say, to express themselves. Um, and then you also have the Chinese people on social media telling you about what's going on. So uh, there there's just, you know, a wide variety of information out there that becomes the sources.

• 8:54Danny Jones?

  So what's happening right now in China? What is at the top of your list right now that you think is the most most shocking thing? Or is there anything right now that you that you can see happening or foresee happening in the near future between China and Russia? I mean, China and the US, especially when it comes to Trump now coming into office and you have the tariffs that he's implementing. And and you have the the conflict with Taiwan. And Taiwan, obviously, that you've stated on many of your videos, I think, is the top of China's to do list. They care more about Taiwan than anything.

• 9:37Danny Jones?

  What do you what do you see happening right now? What do you predict is going to play? How this whole Taiwan tariff situation is going to play out?

• 9:46Speaker 05

  Well, there are a lot of things happening in China right now. People worry that a war will break out in the Taiwan Strait because that has always been a top priority for the CCP. People also worry about the tariff war, how that impacts not only US-China relations, but the whole world, the geopolitics, and also China's economy. Because if it further deteriorates, people are going to revolt. Because when people don't have money to feed themselves, they're going to go after the government, the officials. But what I think is the most pressing issue or the most, the biggest variable, shall we say, that has not been getting enough attention in the West is the fact that Xi

• 10:31Speaker 05

  Jinping is losing power and losing power very quickly. In fact, he might have already completely lost power. He's only a figurehead. He's only a puppet. You know, although I can't say that for sure, you know, I don't. But that seems like it's going in that direction faster than we have anticipated.

• 10:54Danny Jones?

  And what makes you say this? What evidence do you have for this?

• 10:57Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, the most obvious evidence is his control of the military. You know, in the Chinese communist regime, he who controls the gun controls the regime, right? That has always been the case. But of the seven Central Military Commission, the seven members, I mean, the commission made up of seven people. He's already lost three. You know, I mean, removing himself. There's there are only three left, and then the three left are not his people.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  You know how they have different factions. So Xi Jinping completely lost the three.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Members and three out of the seven.

• 11:42Danny Jones?

  So there so after him, there's six left and he's lost three of the six.

• 11:46Speaker 05

  Right.

• 11:48Speaker 05

  And and he lost two most important. Military leaders who are loyal to him. That's the second vice chairman of Central Military Commission. He Weidong, who is responsible for the Taiwan operations. You know, if a war breaks out, Vice Chairman He would be the person responsible for that. And that man has is gone. And then the second person who's extremely powerful in the military is the man in charge of personnel. Who's Admiral Admiral Miao Hua. He's in charge of the political work, you know, by political work, it means. He does all the political vetting of all the officers.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  Right. So he's in charge of personnel.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  That man is also gone.

• 12:37Danny Jones?

  What do you mean when you say gone?

• 12:40Speaker 05

  Well, they're they're removed from their position. I mean, in the case of. Admiral Miao Hua, he's officially announced he's removed from his post due to corruption. I mean, they never say the real reason, but it's always corruption.

• 12:51Danny Jones?

  And who are the people removing them?

• 12:54Speaker 05

  This is the government, the central, they say the authorities. In the case of the vice chairman.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  The man has been missing since March, and there are so many rumors about him being. Arrested, investigated, and the latest rumor is that he has died.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  You know, there there are just so many, and it didn't came from one source. Because if if it come, if it came from one source, you could say, well, maybe that's, you know, just one source. But it has come from various sources. And some people say that he committed suicide. Other people say he was executed. So you you you, you know, but everyone agrees, regardless whether the man is alive or dead. Everyone agrees that he's gone. He's removed from his post because it's abnormal that he has not been seen for two and a half months. You know, giving his position. That where is he? If he's alive, you know, one thing that's very easy for Xi Jinping to do is just show him off. Well, there he is.

• 13:56Danny Jones?

  So who are the people pointing this out? Because I would imagine if you're the media in China and you start saying, oh, they they whacked this guy to overthrow Xi Jinping. I I don't imagine that's looked up to and by the Chinese government. I imagine that you would be removed from your post if you were the media reporting on this, right?

• 14:16Speaker 05

  Right, so that brings that brings the next question. Who removed these people? So the views are divided. So some people believe it's Xi Jinping himself removing his own people. But more and more people believe it's Xi Jinping's enemies removing his loyalists. Okay, and I tend to agree with the second camp. It is Xi Jinping's enemies removing his loyalists one by one from the military. And they're getting closer and closer to him.

• 14:47Danny Jones?

  And who are his enemies within China?

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Okay, uh, literally, it's almost everyone.

• 14:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 14:57Speaker 05

  Because he has, because he has alienated so many people.

• 15:01Danny Jones?

  Steve, is that your phone? No, it's not mine. Did you have your phone with you? Oh, I think it's dingy. That's okay.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Let me let me turn it off.

• 15:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, no, no, just to put on silent.

• 15:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, put on silent.

• 15:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, there you go.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  Um, where were we?

• 15:16Danny Jones?

  Who, uh, who are?

• 15:17Speaker 05

  Let me take a sip of water.

• 15:18Danny Jones?

  You were saying that, yeah, yeah, you were saying that everybody, uh, in China opposes Xi from the, the population to the military, to the other higher ranking politicians?

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, people, everyone suffered during COVID lockdowns. I mean, people have seen those videos where people were literally locked down at home for months, you know?

• 15:40Danny Jones?

  Did you see the videos of those cats on the side of the road in China?

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:43Danny Jones?

  Like all these house cats, like in a giant net or a bag on the side of the road?

• 15:49Danny Jones?

  Crazy.

• 15:50Speaker 05

  There are people who literally died from hunger because, because of lockdowns. And these are not people in villages, in rural villages. They're in high, you know, fancy apartments in Shanghai.

• 16:05Danny Jones?

  I need to talk about the drastic difference in prices for things online and how to get around it. Couches, desks, office chairs. It was really hard to find the chairs for the studio, which is why Steve had to sit on a cardboard box for the first year.

• 16:17Speaker 06

  Well, it was like a kitty stool made of literally painted fiberboard, but I get what you're saying.

• 16:21Danny Jones?

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• 17:02Danny Jones?

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• 17:36Speaker 05

  There are expatriates living in China and working for multinational companies.

• 17:42Danny Jones?

  That were not allowed to get access to food because they weren't allowed to leave their apartments.

• 17:46Speaker 05

  Right.

• 17:49Danny Jones?

  That's so crazy.

• 17:50Speaker 05

  You know, I mean, Shanghai is like New York. People don't stock up food at home. They always eat out.

• 17:55Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 17:59Danny Jones?

  Do you know how many people starved like that?

• 18:02Speaker 05

  During Covid?

• 18:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like in their apartments because they couldn't go get food. They couldn't leave. They couldn't order food or anything like this.

• 18:09Speaker 05

  I know there were a lot, you know, because I've seen videos where people. The first thing they did in the morning when they woke up is trying to buy food online. I mean, the way they bought food is online. You have to bid. You have to like grab. You have to fight to, because there's only so much quantities to supply everyone. So you have to kind of just fight to to be the first hundred bids.

• 18:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:36Danny Jones?

  So again, everybody across the board in China, in the political establishment and in the military establishment opposes Xi.

• 18:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 18:50Danny Jones?

  And what are the primary reasons for this?

• 18:54Speaker 05

  Well,

• 18:56Speaker 05

  I shouldn't say everyone, but of course he has his own followers, right? There's in CCP politics, there's Xi Jinping faction. He has certain people in the military and in civilian government who are loyal to him. But those people, even though these people are loyal to him, it doesn't mean that these people don't have their own independent mind or thinking, but the majority of them are fed up. Why? Well, there were several events. One is the death of the former premier Li Keqiang, who died in October two years ago. I think it was 2023.

• 19:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 19:32Speaker 05

  He died mysteriously. Many people believe Xi Jinping.

• 19:37Speaker 05

  Finished him.

• 19:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  Because the the man was healthy. He was only in his sixties and he was swimming and he died mysteriously. Now, you know CCP officials, their bodyguards and their medical services are, I mean, they are well taken care of. You know, there's no way he would die while swimming.

• 20:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  I mean, his guard would first see him struggling in in the water, in the swimming pool.

• 20:07Danny Jones?

  This guy's a big shot.

• 20:08Speaker 05

  He's a former premier. He's like the prime minister.

• 20:10Danny Jones?

  He's got full security all the time.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  All the time. And also, the hotel he stayed in had medical, they had like all these emergency medical, you know, establishment at the hotel, at the guest house. Um, but when they tried to rescue him, they sent him to not a hospital known for cardio, cardiology, but it's they sent him to a Chinese medicine hospital.

• 20:36Speaker 05

  Why? And then it was further away from the hospital that's closer to the hotel.

• 20:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  That are known for its cardiology. So there's just so many suspicions around his death. And when that happened, it really sent shockwaves across the establishment, the political establishment. Because people think, well, if he could die, right, the second man, the one, the second man in in the government, who was a scholar, I mean, the man was harmless. He was, he didn't even have ambition.

• 21:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 21:06Speaker 05

  So that that was the turning point.

• 21:09Danny Jones?

  So let me ask you this. If if Xi was successfully removed from power, you know, there's, there's the idea that sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. So if Xi was purged, who would he would, who would he be replaced by? Who who were the potential candidates he could be replaced by? And would you be remotely optimistic about that? Do you think that would push China in a new direction? Do you think it would be beneficial for the population? What are your thoughts on that?

• 21:44Speaker 05

  I think you brought up a very good point. Um, I think whoever succeeds, Xi Jinping, I say Hu Jingping, who is he?

• 21:55Speaker 05

  May not necessarily steer China in the right direction. As long as the communist regime stays in place. Because what what's corrupting? What's making everything fail is not just Xi Jinping. But rather, it's the political system. It's the communist ideology and the establishment. Right. It's this absolute control over everyone, over everything. That's killing China. So as long as that system stays and you're putting a new. You put a Wang Jinping or, you know, a Chen, you know, another one. It'll be maybe even worse. So it's, I don't really see him as the problem. He's the product of the system.

• 22:39Speaker 05

  You know, he became the way he is now after twelve years in power. And twelve years ago, he wasn't like that. He wa- he wasn't this bad. He wasn't the dictator he is today. But by the same token, you put another person in his position for another ten years. So China could be in a much worse situation than than than what it is today. So I don't think it's him. But he has a handicap. That is, he does not have a successor. You know, he feared to name a successor. Because as a dictator, dictator never feel comfortable of naming a successor. Because. Because what if that successor becomes more popular than you are?

• 23:25Speaker 05

  And also, that person could be ruined. Because people will start to.

• 23:33Speaker 05

  Shall we say kiss up to that person? Yeah. Right? Because it's well, well, he, that guy is gonna be next in line. So I'd better take care of him, you know, where this, the old guy is on his way out. Right. So that's, so they they never, like Mao had three successor. I mean, he took out three of them. You know, Deng had two and he took out both. So so Xi Jinping never had a successor. But that becomes his handicap. Because that becomes an excuse used by his political enemies to say. We can't have that. We can't have a system that if you get sick one day and then so, you know, so goes the system.

• 24:13Danny Jones?

  Now, what do you think the, what is your view of the relationship between Xi Jinping and Donald Trump and some of the talks? I know there was some miscommunication or different stories being told from different sides between Trump's administration and Xi Jinping's side to the American media to if they've had talks, if they haven't had talks about the tariffs, about Taiwan. What is your view on all that?

• 24:43Speaker 05

  I should say that the Xi Jinping, well, their relationship during Trump's first term was different from their relationship now because at the time Xi Jinping was more in control of the Chinese regime. But I should say Trump wasn't fully pushing his agenda at the time, right, during his first term. So the two are now in a different position politically, within their own country. I think Trump is more determined to, you know, to change, I don't know,

• 25:24Speaker 05

  for lack of a better term, to change China, or he doesn't like the way China is. He does not like to deal with China the way it is today. But Xi Jinping is not the man who he dealt with five years ago, I don't know, eight years ago. So that relationship from his first term, I think, is becoming meaningless because everything has changed. I think the Trump administration should think about who's the next person, how they're going to deal with the power vacuum left by Xi Jinping, you know?

• 26:08Danny Jones?

  Well, the tariff situation is interesting because for face value...

• 26:14Danny Jones?

  The tariffs, the way they're explained is, okay, we are going to, it's a, it's a money revenue generator, obviously, from one lens, but from another lens, which I think is the lens that Trump is looking through it, but through, is soft power, right? You have a, you have leverage to control other countries and the economics. For example, like, so if he is going to lay these tariffs on all these countries, it's, it's an artificial inflation placed on these countries, saying like, it's a lever of, of soft power to where they can say to, Trump can say to other countries, stop buying all of your tech from China and we will lift these tariffs. And, you know, you can see that from

• 26:58Danny Jones?

  other examples, how we are putting these tariffs on China for certain things, but not for other things that we have, we don't have any infrastructure. And I'm curious to see how that is gonna play out with Taiwan, because it seems like Xi has pretty much rolled, rolled over on all the tariff stuff and has come to the table to negotiate with Trump to some degree. Am I right about this?

• 27:31Speaker 05

  I think China hasn't really started negotiating with Trump yet.

• 27:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 27:36Speaker 05

  We haven't really seen, I mean, we know the two sides agreed to start negotiating, right? That's what they, that, that's what the meeting in Geneva was all about.

• 27:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  And they gave themselves 90 days.

• 27:54Speaker 05

  What's interesting to me is, I don't think there's, there's gonna be any meaningful dialogue from now, until they sort out, who is going to set the economic directions for China? Not until they settle down this power struggle internally in Beijing. We're not gonna see anything meaningful coming out of any negotiations with China. Because you can reach an agreement with Xi Jinping, but what if he's out the next month?

• 28:23Danny Jones?

  Right. Well,

• 28:26Danny Jones?

  There's also this dynamic. So there was a recent election in Taiwan, right? And I think in January.

• 28:32Speaker 05

  It was last year. What?

• 28:34Danny Jones?

  Was it? Was it last year?

• 28:35Speaker 05

  It was last year. Yeah.

• 28:36Danny Jones?

  Oh, OK. I thought that was just this January.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  He's no, it was a year ago.

• 28:39Danny Jones?

  So so China basically won over the parliament. I guess the pro-China side, but the president was part of the separatist side.

• 28:48Speaker 05

  Right.

• 28:48Danny Jones?

  So China has has bought time there because the president won't be able to get anything done while the parliament is pro-China or controlled by China. Right. So is it true that China is trying to get, has been trying to get the United States to come out and basically disavow their support for Taiwan remaining sovereign and independent?

• 29:11Speaker 05

  That's one of Xi Jinping's tactics.

• 29:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 05

  Because he understands the the risk, the consequences of a real military confrontation with the United States. So he favors a soft takeover. That is having Taiwanese politicians agree to the terms that China sets. Right? So then he said, well, then the United States' hands are tied because you can't do anything. If the Taiwanese officials say, we want to be part of China. Then there's no war. Then what can the US do? Nothing.

• 29:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 29:48Speaker 05

  So that's why they have spent so much effort, so much money trying to infiltrate Taiwanese government. Buying loyalties from these members of parliament, these officials. And the infiltration into Taiwanese government, you know, it happens on both sides. You know, it's not just one party, but on both sides. Yeah, but it's unfortunate that the.

• 30:16Speaker 05

  I think they don't call themselves, it's not House Speaker. I don't know what they call it. The President of Legislative Yuan, which is like the the House Speaker, the equivalent of House Speaker.

• 30:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 30:26Speaker 05

  That man is very pro Beijing. Unfortunately, yeah, he he's very

• 30:31Danny Jones?

  In Taiwan.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  In Taiwan, yeah. So he has blocked some of the laws that they're trying to pass, you know. So he's trying to make President William Lai's job very difficult.

• 30:44Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And I would assume, again, I'm not well versed on this or super, I've done a ton of research on it, but I would I would assume that, obviously, I don't think Trump gives a shit about the land of Taiwan or the country of Taiwan. Or as bad as it is to say, I don't think he gives a shit about the people of Taiwan. I think he gives a shit about the semiconductors and the technology that is exported by Taiwan. Would you agree with that?

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Um.

• 31:12Danny Jones?

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• 32:37Danny Jones?

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• 32:53Speaker 05

  I think he does care about the land because strategically Taiwan is the first chain island. If the United States lose Taiwan to the mainland, to the CCP, the Pacific, then the US would have to concede half of the Pacific to the CCP. And that's exactly what the CCP wants. In Beijing's mind, they want to divide their influence

• 33:23Speaker 05

  in the middle of in the middle of Pacific, right? China controls the east or the west half of Pacific, whereas the US controls the

• 33:35Speaker 05

  the east half of Pacific. So that means the US influence like in the Korean Peninsula, even Japan, and all the way down the Philippines, all of that will be lost to China. You know, when the US lose Taiwan.

• 33:51Danny Jones?

  Just because of Taiwan?

• 33:53Speaker 05

  Yes, because if you look at the.

• 33:55Danny Jones?

  Can you pull up a map, Steve, so we can get a visual for Taiwan, China and that area?

• 34:02Speaker 05

  The first island chain, you know, Taiwan is the weakest link in the first island chain. And if right now, the CCP doesn't have any breakthrough, but that will be.

• 34:16Danny Jones?

  Can you zoom out?

• 34:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 34:21Speaker 05

  You see all from Japan, all the way down, you see, you see this n- natural geography line, right, where's Taiwan is in the middle and goes down to the Philippines, right? That's the first island chain.

• 34:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 34:35Speaker 05

  Right now, to the, to the east, that's US.

• 34:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Okay, so if China takes over Taiwan.

• 34:46Danny Jones?

  China controls the Philippine Sea, right? Right there to the right, they don't?

• 34:51Speaker 05

  Well, if, if basically, the, the first island chain, uh, the US has significant influence.

• 34:57Danny Jones?

  So China doesn't go, they don't go outside, I mean, I'm sure they have subs and, and battleships that patrol all of that, right?

• 35:05Speaker 05

  China's biggest, um, other than the Taiwan Strait, the second, um, place of contention is the South China Sea.

• 35:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:14Speaker 05

  That's, that's also a second place where people worry that war can break out.

• 35:19Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:22Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  So Taiwan is significant. If the United States lose, loses Taiwan, the US is not going to be this, you know, a superpower in the world. China.

• 35:35Danny Jones?

  What?

• 35:35Speaker 05

  Will be, will very likely become, it will give China, all the CCP, all the credits to claim to be a, a superpower on par with the US.

• 35:50Danny Jones?

  So China.

• 35:52Speaker 05

  US, yeah.

• 35:52Danny Jones?

  Isn't China primarily interested in Taiwan for the economic value and the technology?

• 36:01Speaker 05

  Economic value, technology, yes, those are the two reasons, but there is a political reason, because, for, for, for claiming legitimacy to rule China, because the CCP, the Communist Party, really isn't legitimate, because.

• 36:16Danny Jones?

  You said it's not?

• 36:17Speaker 05

  It is not, because, think about it, when the Qing Dynasty Emperor abdicated, right, or conceded authority to the Republic of China.

• 36:30Speaker 05

  The lineage goes from the Qing Dynasty to the Republic of China, ROC. Now, when the CCP came over and established the PRC, the People's Republic of China, they never completely eliminated ROC. So ROC still exists today in Taiwan. And ROC has existed since 1912, much longer than the PRC. So how can you claim legitimacy to rule when your ancestor still exists? You see what I'm saying?

• 37:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 05

  You never completely got rid of the country called Republic of China before you, and they still exist, they exist in Taiwan. So the CCP worries about its legitimacy to rule China. And that's why it's so determined and eager to get rid of the Republic of China. Because Republic of China is, what, 112, 113 years old? And the PRC is only 70 years old. Right? So who is whose motherland? See, CCP always love to use that term, "motherland."

• 37:45Speaker 05

  Their motherland is Taiwan.

• 37:48Speaker 05

  Beijing's motherland is Taiwan. You know, if you look at it, if you look at it from a chronological order.

• 37:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  You know, the Taiwan government is the ancestor of CCP.

• 38:01Danny Jones?

  Sometimes I forget that this culture is, what, like over 5,000 years old? I had, I have, there's a gentleman who I've had on this podcast many times, who was allegedly, well, he was a spy working for the CIA, and allegedly, he could have been stationed in and around China. And he was explaining that there's like old buildings like mills that are twice the age of the United States of America. There's buildings, just little old shacks that are that are multiple times the age of the United States. So it's like a crazy way to compare the land and the culture and you know, that civilization,

• 38:46Danny Jones?

  how far it goes back. It's pretty, it's pretty bananas when you think about it.

• 38:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:52Danny Jones?

  Um, and then there was also something else that we briefly mentioned before we started the show, but there was something that happened with the, the, there was a recent adjustment to the population of China, right? Because when they, the way I understand it is when the, the way the Chinese government does census on their population is when the doctor, there's no birth certificates. So the way I understand it is when the, the doctor comes to first give a child his vaccinations, that's one way, or when a child gets admitted to primary school, that's another way. That's usually not until they're like four or five, maybe. Is that correct or are you aware of?

• 39:33Speaker 05

  Um, well, I know that the Chinese population data has been massaged by so many people.

• 39:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  For so long.

• 39:41Danny Jones?

  I'm sure the education system, they get subsidized by the government, right? So they want to, they want to inflate that number of people that they have.

• 39:52Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 39:53Danny Jones?

  To earn more money.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  There was once, I think in, that was in 2013, um, there was an effort by the Ministry of Public Security to kind of, um, uh, to, to, to scrub their population data. So they organized half million police across the country, um, to conduct, um, they, they went through the population data, they found 350 million fake IDs.

• 40:23Speaker 05

  From their 1.3 billion population database, over 48 hours. It was an effort. Within two days, they deployed half a million policemen across the country to scrub the data. They found 350 million fake IDs out of 1.3 billion people. And this was actually documented. This, this whole effort was actually on the website of the Ministry of Public Security. They later took it down because it was too much information. Because that's what quarter of China's population, right?

• 40:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 05

  Why actually?

• 40:58Danny Jones?

  It's the point three, right? Of the 1.3 billion.

• 41:00Speaker 05

  Twenty, yeah, yeah. So, so that was that. And also in 2013, if you look at the official census data, China had, I think it was 260 million kids or, or children, school aged children, 260 million. However, if you look at, going to your point about vaccines, according, according to vaccine data, only 100 million children from a month old to 16 years old had vaccination or, or.

• 41:42Danny Jones?

  How, how many?

• 41:43Speaker 05

  Hundred million.

• 41:44Danny Jones?

  Hundred million.

• 41:45Speaker 05

  So assuming it was an annual event, so they were saying that there's this, this huge discrepancy, right? You had 260 million students.

• 41:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 41:57Speaker 05

  You know, but you only have 100 million children from a month old to 16 years old. You know, not everyone in this bracket is student because the a month old doesn't go to school. So how could you have so fewer people, so fewer children, you know, getting vaccines? We have so many students. Well, the answer is the local governments inflate their student population to get funding from the central government. So, but if you look at the discrepancies, it's huge. We're, you know, it's like 100 million versus 260 million. You know, I mean, it's crazy.

• 42:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  But that's why China's population data, the census data is just convoluted.

• 42:42Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, and I'm sure it takes a while for it to catch up, right? Because.

• 42:49Danny Jones?

  It's gonna have, if the census data is, if they're taking census data on people after they enter school, I'm not sure when they typically do it. Like, do they do it at the beginning? Do they do it?

• 43:00Speaker 05

  Well, supposedly, when a kid is born, you need to register, you know, with the local police bureau. So that you get an ID, right? You get a household ID. Like, here, we have a social security number.

• 43:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  There, you get an ID. So the kid is in the system, right? And then you get vaccinations, you know, stuff like that. But the person should exist in the system. But birth certificates can be bought.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  Hospitals sell birth certificates for profit. Doctors sell that. You could get fake IDs.

• 43:36Danny Jones?

  Why would they do this? Why would people do this?

• 43:40Speaker 05

  To buy real estate. Sometimes, just to get a fake, just to have a fake ID,

• 43:49Speaker 05

  to buy real estate. Or, for example, my kid is born in a rural area, right? And I want my kid to be able to go to school in Beijing or Shanghai, in the large cities. But I can't go there because of this household registration system. Like, you can't move around to go to school in another city if you are in this local. So what I want to do is buy a fake ID for my kid in Shanghai or Beijing. A fake ID, so that later, when he or she is older, he or she can go to school there.

• 44:24Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 44:25Speaker 05

  You know, if I have the money. All you need is money.

• 44:28Danny Jones?

  What is the penalty for being busted for doing this?

• 44:31Speaker 05

  If everyone is doing it, how can you, who are you gonna punish?

• 44:36Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, you're right. That's a lot of people.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Right? And usually, the people who are doing this are the ones with money. And they use money to take care of everything.

• 44:44Danny Jones?

  How many fake IDs did you say that they found?

• 44:46Speaker 05

  There's a lot.

• 44:47Danny Jones?

  You said it was a couple hundred million?

• 44:48Speaker 05

  Three hundred fifty million.

• 44:49Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Out of 1.3 billion people.

• 44:57Danny Jones?

  That is bananas. That, that, if that's happening to some, at that level, and I'm sure you can't, I mean, that takes a long time to make a, a three hundred million fake ideas. That, that is a symptom of a very deep rot.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  That, okay, that three hundred fifty million does not include people who have died and whose IDs still exist in the system. Those are only fake IDs, meaning the, the person never exists, or duplicate IDs, I should say. You know, you have a, one person having two IDs.

• 45:31Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  That's duplicate IDs, but this does not include people who are a hundred fifty years old, who are still in the system, and that the children are still collecting social benefits.

• 45:40Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 45:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, or people who have migrated to US and who, who, who's still getting benefits in China.

• 45:47Danny Jones?

  Hmm, yeah, th- there's the fact that that exists. I mean, that's a huge, a huge problem and a symptom to a, a huge institutional problem. Like, why would they not allow somebody born in a rural area to go work in a metropolitan area or in a different city?

• 46:05Speaker 05

  Well, it's in, because if that happens, then no one wants to live in the rural area, right? I mean, tha- that's the whole quote unquote beauty of communism from the perspective of the CCP leaders. They control where everyone lives, they control how much money you make, they control what job you do, they control everything. In the old days, they even control who you date, who you marry. They control every aspect of people's life.

• 46:31Danny Jones?

  Are you still in contact with, uh, with people that live in China?

• 46:35Speaker 05

  Uh, unless it's my direct family, no. I try not to contact them because it could get them into trouble.

• 46:42Danny Jones?

  What, do you have any understanding of what is the sentiment of the general population of China, um, in regards to the government there? Like, what is the, the general feeling towards the government?

• 46:59Speaker 05

  It's very mixed. I think people in general, um, don't like the things that are happening around them, uh, but depends on who they are. They may or may not understand the root cause of that. For example, I have a cousin. Who is a very nice, very nice guy. But he believes that his misery is caused by the United States. Because of the government propaganda. Because the government say you are losing your job or you are not making enough money because of the United States. Is making everything more difficult for us. Because the the United States sees us as a threat. They are making things more difficult. So people believe that.

• 47:45Speaker 05

  They don't realize it's the government's bad policy. You know.

• 47:49Danny Jones?

  Right. And is there any sort of like political binary divide there? Like there is here in the US between like left and right politics?

• 47:58Speaker 05

  Uh, there's, here we have a left and right. There is all over. There are different factions. So it depends on, there are different interest groups. So right now there is the Xi Jinping faction, right? And then there are the princeling factions. These are the second or third generations of the party, the founders of CCP. Right, they are the red prince, prince and princes.

• 48:28Speaker 05

  Because we're born into these red families. So these are the privileged Chinese. Okay, we call them the princelings.

• 48:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:37Speaker 05

  Uh, so they are one faction. They they they feel they're entitled.

• 48:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  And they control almost every industry of China. These, they say 500 Chinese CCP families control all of Chinese industries.

• 48:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 48:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, so there's that. These people may not be in the government. They're not holding any government officials. Most of them don't hold government officials. But they are formidable. They are, they are a formidable force. And then you have other faction, like the reformist faction, which are more friendly to the West, who are more reform minded.

• 49:17Speaker 05

  And they, so there are different interest groups fighting for control right now.

• 49:26Danny Jones?

  And as far as like, I know you said you've done research on this, you might not have any like direct experience, but like, what is the level of, when you talk about things like espionage or spies, spies here versus spies there?

• 49:47Danny Jones?

  Do you have any understanding of like the level of spy or undeclared Chinese influence in the US? I know we talked about briefly that there's, before we started, that there's these police stations here in the US that I think just got busted, where China is

• 50:06Danny Jones?

  trying to regulate the Chinese-American population here.

• 50:11Speaker 05

  Well, this is one area I think the United States government needs to pay attention to because the Chinese government has

• 50:21Speaker 05

  a long arm into the internal affairs of American society. They have very good control of the Chinese-American communities here.

• 50:32Speaker 05

  You know, a lot of Chinese read Chinese newspapers, but these newspapers are run by people who are loyal to the CCP.

• 50:42Speaker 05

  And also many Chinese, when they left China to come here, you know, the state security talked to them. You know, they have, some of them have to agree to being eyes and ears for the CCP before they come. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of them are, you know, they're not professional spies. These are not the professional spies, the ones that I told you at the beginning, they're very ordinary looking. Those are the professional spies.

• 51:09Danny Jones?

  So if you're a citizen of China,

• 51:13Danny Jones?

  it's not just as simple as saying, hey, I want to move to the United States, fill out some paperwork, bada bing bada boom, you're on a plane to the US.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  You, you do that, but if, if the state security, MSS, Ministry of State Security is interested in you, they will talk to you, they say, well, you're on your way to the US.

• 51:36Danny Jones?

  How many people do you think that's happening to?

• 51:38Speaker 05

  It's quite common. I, I know someone who were like that. I know, I know that. I used to have a nanny who I suspect is one of them.

• 51:52Danny Jones?

  A nanny.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, my, uh, someone who is a living nanny.

• 51:58Danny Jones?

  Who you hired to watch your kids?

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Right, through a friend. I mean, she was not a total stranger.

• 52:03Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. And what made you think she was a spy?

• 52:05Speaker 05

  Oh, I, a couple of weeks after we hired her, she, uh, I have friends calling me saying that Lei, you'd better not use her. I said, why? I said, she, we think she's a spy. And immediately I called the woman who introduced her to me, you know, because she was not a stranger I hired, you know, from, from, from the street or from nowhere.

• 52:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:31Speaker 05

  It was through a friend. But the friend said, I don't think so, because my friend knows this woman's uh, brother and, and, and sister-in-law.

• 52:42Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 52:42Speaker 05

  Um, she said, I don't think she's a spy. So I still don't know if she is a spy or not, but she has all the strange behaviors of a spy.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  For example,

• 52:59Speaker 05

  um, she called up my neighbor one day, um, and asked how much it costs to take a cab. And my neighbor asked, well, it depends on where you wanna go. So where do you wanna go? And she wouldn't tell her. And then my neighbor goes, well, why don't you just ask Lei? If you need a ride to go somewhere, I'm sure Lei will give you a ride. And she didn't say anything. So my neighbor told me, say, your nanny is weird. She called us and asked us how much it costs to take a cab. And she wouldn't tell us where she wants to go. And then there was another time when I remember it was

• 53:39Speaker 05

  cold. It was, it was in New, New England. So it was cold at the end of October, maybe in early November. It was dark and cold. She decided to take a walk with my daughter, who was very young at the time.

• 53:54Speaker 05

  I was like, why do you wanna walk so late at night? Right? It was a little strange. I didn't say anything. So at the end of the walk, I asked my daughter, I said, well, what did you talk about during the walk? Um, so my daughter said, uh, her name was Angie. You know, she's, she said, oh, we just, we walked around the neighborhood and Angie just wants to know where everyone lived. Everyone lives.

• 54:21Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Because I have a lot of friends in the neighborhood.

• 54:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 54:24Speaker 05

  You know, I mean, there were kids, you know, I mean, the, the families, we, we, you know, party together, you know, do the birthday parties together. It was all for the kids.

• 54:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:33Speaker 05

  So they come to my house, we go to their houses. So she wants to know where everyone lives in the neighborhood. Of course she knows my friends.

• 54:44Speaker 05

  Right, but she would do that. She would get the kid, walk with her late at night to tell her. And I don't even know how she got their phone numbers.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  And, um.

• 55:00Danny Jones?

  Introducing herself to your neighbors.

• 55:01Speaker 05

  Right, because I never, she never asked me to get phone numbers.

• 55:05Danny Jones?

  How old was she?

• 55:07Speaker 05

  Um, I think she was in her early thirties.

• 55:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay, interesting.

• 55:12Speaker 05

  Maybe late twenties.

• 55:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 55:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 05

  You know, um, and then she, I think what really got, uh, she has two names. You know, she had, she, she, I started calling her by her real name, the name on her ID, and she got really upset.

• 55:30Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  You know, she want, she wants me to call her other name. And I said, but that's your real name, what's wrong with calling you that?

• 55:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 55:39Speaker 05

  That's you. She got so mad, she was furious, was, was inappropriate. And then I said, okay, that's it.

• 55:49Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 55:49Speaker 05

  You know, yeah.

• 55:51Danny Jones?

  So how old were you when you moved here from China?

• 55:54Speaker 05

  I was.

• 55:55Danny Jones?

  Were you born here?

• 55:56Speaker 05

  No, I, I came here, uh, when I was seventeen.

• 56:02Danny Jones?

  When you were seventeen?

• 56:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:03Danny Jones?

  Okay, and for people that aren't familiar, what was the, the history there? Like, how did you end up coming here? Um, what were your parents doing?

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Oh. I didn't came here because I wanted to come here. I had no idea what America was. It was more of my parents' choice. My parents, especially my father, was very adamant about getting me and my sister out of China. Because he was, he lost hope.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  My father was detained for his outspokenness during the difficult years of China. I remember when I was, I mean, my father, I see, I mean, he's very outspoken. He's still very outspoken.

• 56:54Danny Jones?

  When you say difficult years, what years are you talking about specifically?

• 56:57Speaker 05

  I mean, the post-Cultural Revolution era, before the reforms and opening up.

• 57:04Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 57:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, so he was very outspoken and he was detained. He was a, he was a, he and my mom taught at colleges. They taught architecture at college, at a college. And he was detained for over a year for whatever trouble he was in. And I remember late at night, you know, when he was detained, I mean, they, he was allowed to send his clothes home every season or every change of season. I remember my, you know, seeing my mother and my grandmother, you know,

• 57:46Speaker 05

  unsaw his winter jacket, his winter coat, to, to find the tiny rolled up letters.

• 57:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 57:55Speaker 05

  He sewed his letters into his heavy winter coat. You know, they did it at night. They took it apart and they found this tiny little paper rolled up. And then they read it. That's how they communicated. I, I remember that very well. I also remember, I remember once my grandmother took me for a walk. She knew where my dad was. Locked up.

• 58:24Danny Jones?

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• 59:04Danny Jones?

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• 59:48Danny Jones?

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• 1:00:08Speaker 05

  It was in a classroom in the school on campus. And so she, it was during summer, so the windows were open. So she took me, we were on the street outside her cell, or, I mean, his cell, his room. And she was yelling at me. My grandmother was yelling at me, saying my name, so loud that my dad could hear it. And then she put me on a pile of sand or construction materials. And she was yelling at me, and then she was pretending she was tying my shoes. And she said, "Did you see him? Did you see him?" Um, I just looked, I mean, I was so young. I just, she said, look, look at that window.

• 1:00:49Speaker 05

  I just looked like there was a wall behind the wall. There was a, a, a, a building.

• 1:00:54Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  And the, the windows were all covered up, but the top uh about a foot was left open. I saw a man's face, you know, peeking out from behind the window.

• 1:01:07Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  Looking at me and waving at me. I said, I suppose that's my dad. You know, so I said, yes, I saw him. I, I remember that scene very well. Yeah.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  How old were you again?

• 1:01:22Speaker 05

  Oh, I was very, I don't even know. I was like probably three.

• 1:01:26Danny Jones?

  So he was in there for a year?

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  Over a year.

• 1:01:29Danny Jones?

  And when he got out, was that when he, when he decided he wanted to?

• 1:01:32Speaker 05

  I, I don't remember when he got out, but I also remember that we were allowed to visit him once.

• 1:01:36Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:37Speaker 05

  It was a big event. My mother and my grandmother cooked up so much food. And in the end, my mu- my grandmother didn't go because she was afraid that it would be too emotional for her. So my mother took uh the kids, me and my sister, maybe our cousin, my cousin was also with us. We went. It was a room full of people. There were at least like five or six of them, the officials. Well, I don't know, the guards looking after him. They were sitting on that side. It was in the room where there were bunker beds. We sat on this side of the bed. There wasn't another bed on the other side. And we waited, we waited, and my dad show up, you know. I don't, I don't even remember what we talked about.

• 1:02:20Speaker 05

  But I, I remember that. It was a lot of people. So it was not like a private moment where they left, you know.

• 1:02:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:28Speaker 05

  My, my family together, no. It was, it was while everyone was sitting there.

• 1:02:32Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Danny Jones?

  And you remember uh what it was like when you moved here, like what the process was like? And did you come here with your dad or what was?

• 1:02:41Speaker 05

  My dad came earlier than, than we. Uh, I remember.

• 1:02:47Speaker 05

  When I was a little older, you know, sometimes my, when my grandmother came, my, my parents would put me in to sleep in their room. So I overheard their conversations at night. They were talking about how to get, how to get out, how to get me and my sister.

• 1:03:04Danny Jones?

  Oh wow.

• 1:03:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was one of the things they talked the most. They didn't know I was listening, but I was listening. You know, they, they, they thought of all, you know, so my father was like, I need to, I need to, I need to go. I, I can't stay here. So as soon as he could, he, he came. Um, and he came here, I think, four years later, me and my mother came.

• 1:03:28Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:29Speaker 05

  And I went to college. I went straight from Chinese high school to call US college here.

• 1:03:34Danny Jones?

  Wow. And was it, do you remember like the process of like what it was like to, to move? Was it a shock to you? Was it, was it, did you notice anything?

• 1:03:44Speaker 05

  I didn't do much paperwork. I think my parents did most of the paperwork, you know, college application and all of that.

• 1:03:51Danny Jones?

  Do you remember though, like what your experience was, like making that transition from that culture to this culture?

• 1:03:57Speaker 05

  It was hard, fear. Um, I arrived in the US in July. I, I remember when my dad told me, actually before we left, my, my dad told my mom that he bought a house. He took out a mortgage and then the monthly mortgage was a thousand dollars. And when I heard it, I was like, and he said the term was thirty years. He took out a thirty year mortgage, that's one thousand dollars a month. So when I converted that to Chinese yuan, I'm like, we could never pay this off for the rest of our life.

• 1:04:32Speaker 05

  You know, and then I said, you know what? I probably have to work so hard to pay off this house my dad bought because he's not gonna work for the next thirty years. I had no idea what how mortgage works. I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm, I already have a debt to inherit. But so I came in July and then I, I stayed at home um in Massachusetts for about a month. Then my parents bought a ticket, sent me off to Indiana.

• 1:05:02Danny Jones?

  Oh wow.

• 1:05:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, uh, so I was a freshman in Indiana.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  It was fearful, it's scary.

• 1:05:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13Speaker 05

  Just imagine, I've never even left home. I mean, I was sent away, you know, to.

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  Uh, I lived in the dorm. It was a freshman dorm.

• 1:05:25Danny Jones?

  How, how old were you when you learned English?

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  Um, maybe thirteen, twelve, thirteen.

• 1:05:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:05:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Danny Jones?

  So that was before you moved?

• 1:05:37Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I spoke, I spoke English. I enjoyed speaking English.

• 1:05:41Danny Jones?

  I think that's one of the things that Americans take for granted. Is that because we are the number one economic superpower in the world when it comes to GDP and economics? That we don't even think about when we're raising our kids, having to teach them a second language. Right? And in every other country, if you are not raising your kid with a second language, their chances of success are like incredibly diminished. And I imagine it's like that in China, right? Like you have to learn English. You want your kids to learn English, right?

• 1:06:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I actually, of all the subjects.

• 1:06:24Danny Jones?

  Like, because if, if, if, imagine if China and, and America reached an equilibrium in like, or economic parity, we would have to start teaching our kids Mandarin or whatever the dialect is. That's, that's almost unfathomable.

• 1:06:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think speaking a foreign language is, is great. Yeah.

• 1:06:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:06:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:06:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think it's a great, yeah, it's, it's, it's a great thing when you don't have to do it. But when you literally have to do it to survive, that's another story.

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it's one thing to learn it in school and another thing to live in an environment where everyone speaks English and you have no idea what they're talking about. You know, like I, you know, Kit Kat. I didn't even know what Kit Kat was until I was.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  You guys don't have Kit Kats in China?

• 1:07:10Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:07:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:07:12Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:07:14Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:07:14Speaker 05

  So I was working in a bank. I was twenty five.

• 1:07:18Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:18Speaker 05

  You know, my coworker said to me, Lei, let's take a break and go get Kit Kat. I looked at him and said, what is Kit Kat? He was so shocked. He said, Lei, you know, you need to stop and smell the roses. I'm like, I just didn't know what candies are. You know, I didn't grow up eating candy and there's no Kit Kat in China.

• 1:07:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  You know, and my friend, my best friend in college said, I didn't even know the word ice cream until I came to Wellesley College.

• 1:07:47Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:07:48Speaker 05

  You know, but if you if you tell American, if you tell your college friend that you don't know what ice cream is, what do you think people will think of you?

• 1:07:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Speaker 05

  But that's what we went through. You know, I, you know, people looked at us, but now today.

• 1:08:05Danny Jones?

  Look at you like a science experiment.

• 1:08:06Speaker 05

  Right. I mean, Chinese students today is a different, they're they're different. They know everything. I mean, they they know ice cream. But I'm just saying, back in the days when I came, there weren't that many Chinese students. I was the only undergraduate Chinese student, student from China.

• 1:08:26Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:28Speaker 05

  I think in all of that campus.

• 1:08:30Danny Jones?

  Now, I think it's probably a majority of the students are Chinese, right?

• 1:08:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. Of the six thousand foreign students at Harvard,

• 1:08:40Speaker 05

  what, one thousand is from China.

• 1:08:42Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:08:43Speaker 05

  And most of them, I think, are children of government officials. Or or they're tied to the government officials one way or the other, unless they would not be able to come to Harvard. An ordinary.

• 1:08:56Danny Jones?

  Tied to American government officials?

• 1:08:58Speaker 05

  No, no, US Chinese government officials. The Chinese students study at Harvard. You know, they're not ordinary Chinese students. They come from privileged Chinese families.

• 1:09:09Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:11Danny Jones?

  Yet these people who are top government officials in China are able to read the tea leaves or see the forest for the trees, whatever analogy you want to use, to realize that they're not in an optimal ideal system in China. They need to send their people to the US.

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Their kids, their grandkids are educated at top schools in the US. Columbia, you know, Harvard.

• 1:09:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Speaker 05

  Harvard is their favorite choice. Harvard is a Chinese party school. Not party school, like having fun party school, but CCP, Chinese Communist Party School, Central Party School. Because they have a program with the CCP to educate. The Harvard Kennedy School had a program to educate, to train CCP government officials. So they're like the Central Party School. So that's why they're so ideologically intertwined with China.

• 1:10:08Danny Jones?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  You don't even know how communist the Harvard University has become. I have a friend who went to the Kennedy School about 15 years ago. He's Chinese. And he was, he said, this is the here, the stuff I hear here is no different from the stuff you would hear in China at the CCP's Central Party School. He said, this place is as communist as you can imagine. That's why, you know, they're into so much trouble right now with this US government.

• 1:10:44Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:45Speaker 05

  Because it's certainly not in the best interest of the America.

• 1:10:49Danny Jones?

  Isn't the, isn't Harvard, I might be wrong, but I, there was a guy, you're familiar with Charles Lieber?

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. He's the head of the chemistry department and he was sued.

• 1:11:00Danny Jones?

  Was that at Harvard?

• 1:11:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, Harvard. He was sued by the US Justice Department, right, for espionage, doing espionage work for China.

• 1:11:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly. He, I believe the story is, he was working with two, two younger students from China, and he was getting, he was caught getting paid a huge sum of money, even the millions of dollars from China. And Steve, maybe you can find the actual report so we don't fuck this up too much. But then he went to prison, and I just read a report that they just let him out, and China hired him full time. So now he was living in China, working there full time. And he's a nano biologist here. This Charles Lieber, former Harvard University professor, was arrested on January 28, 2020 on charges of making false statements to US law enforcement

• 1:11:49Danny Jones?

  and federal funding and federal funding agencies about his involvement with China's Thousand Talents Plan at the Wuhan University of Technology. He was charged with lying about his affiliation with the Thousand Talent Plan and the Wuhan University of Technology as well as failing to report income he received from Wuhan. He was convicted on December 21, 2021 and sentenced on April 26, 2023 to time served, two days in prison, two years of supervised release with six months of home confinement, $50,000 fine, blah, blah, blah. Since his arrest, he has been actively seeking employment in China. So this, this,

• 1:12:33Danny Jones?

  there's no report here about the latest news of him actually getting hired full-time by China and like getting a huge contract.

• 1:12:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's, he's in China. He's not alone. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more of him here in the US.

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  This doesn't also, this also mentions nothing about the foreign nationals or the Chinese nationals that came here that he was working with.

• 1:12:56Speaker 05

  That's why the, the State Department announced that they're gonna revoke student visas for Chinese students.

• 1:13:05Danny Jones?

  They did?

• 1:13:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, Mark Ruby just announced a few days ago that they're gonna review or revoke some student visas, visas given to Chinese students. Because even they're not professional spies, but if the government asks you to do something for them while you study in the US, are you gonna say no?

• 1:13:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:29Speaker 05

  Your parents still there.

• 1:13:31Danny Jones?

  If your parents are still there, that's an interesting dynamic. What is this, Steve? The Harvard Crimson? Ex-Harvard chemist Charles Lieber joins Chinese university. Go to the first chapter or paragraph there. Former Harvard chemistry professor Charles Lieber, can you zoom in a little bit? Who was convicted of lying to federal authorities about his ties to China in 211, took a new job as professor at the Chinese university last week.

• 1:13:59Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:14:01Speaker 05

  But you know what? I think his life in China will be difficult. Because that doesn't necessarily, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Chinese are gonna trust him.

• 1:14:11Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:13Speaker 05

  You know?

• 1:14:14Danny Jones?

  Even if they gave him, paid him ninety dollars, I'm sure they're gonna be wary of his, yeah?

• 1:14:18Speaker 05

  The leftist Chinese are now saying that they shouldn't trust any students who studied in the West. Because they could be spying for the West in China.

• 1:14:28Danny Jones?

  Right, right, and if you, if. If they knew, I mean, I'm sure they know, you have, you have to. Anticipate that if this guy is being. Released from. Supervision from the federal government in the US and they're getting. Oh, we see that Chi- China's gonna pay you this much money to come do this? Well, guess what? Now you have to spy for us when you go to China, and I'm sure that China would anticipate something like that happening.

• 1:14:56Speaker 05

  So the Chinese students are really stuck because the Chinese enterprises. Government agencies are not hiring Chinese students who were educated in the West. For fear of espionage.

• 1:15:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:15:11Speaker 05

  Okay? And then they're not welcomed here either.

• 1:15:15Danny Jones?

  So if you're. If you are a government official in China. Top level, big shot in China in the government, in the CCP, and you send your child here to Harvard to work here. You're basically. Kissing your kid goodbye because he's never gonna be allowed to come back and work. In China, right?

• 1:15:34Speaker 05

  If you're a big shot in the Chinese government, of course, your kid is gonna graduate from Harvard.

• 1:15:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:39Speaker 05

  And then go back to China, have a, have a, have a lot easier life there. You know, the.

• 1:15:45Danny Jones?

  And they wouldn't, they wouldn't be worried about the kid being.

• 1:15:48Speaker 05

  If you, if his fa- his parents is somebody. Holding important positions. I'm talking about the students whose parents are just ordinary people.

• 1:15:58Danny Jones?

  Okay. I see what you're saying.

• 1:15:59Speaker 05

  You know, the latest news, there was a, a news that went viral in China. That was, there was a student who studied.

• 1:16:06Danny Jones?

  You all right over there, Steve?

• 1:16:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm even at Toms.

• 1:16:09Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:16:10Speaker 05

  There was a student who studied, spent eight years studying in the West, in the US, who went back to China. And this guy is extremely. Patriotic, quote unquote patriotic. He even studied Marxist.

• 1:16:24Speaker 05

  Books when he was in the US so that he could understand the communist theories. That's how patriotic, that's how pro CCP he is.

• 1:16:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:16:35Speaker 05

  So he, after graduation, he went back to China to continue his graduate study.

• 1:16:39Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:40Speaker 05

  Now, he got into trouble because he was, he went to Tiananmen Square for an event. It was, it was something, you know, he was supposed, he was supposed to go there with a friend, but the friend didn't show up. While there, he was detained by the police because the police thought that he was causing trouble. You know, the police thought that he was a petitioner. You know how Chinese petitioners, you know, disgruntled workers, you know, who want to go to Tiananmen Square to petition, you know, for their whatever, you know. So he was arrested by the police because they thought he was with the petitioners. But he wasn't. But what happened was he was showing sympathy towards these people.

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  And he, he stepped up and asked the police to be nicer to these poor men who were there seeking justice. And so the police arrested him. And then after much, you know, investigation, they realized he wasn't with them, they released him. And then, but at school, the school dispelled him, discharged him. I mean, it was Qinghua University. It was not a random school. It's one of the best schools in China. The school discharged him on grounds that he got into trouble. He showed sympathy towards someone who's, he's not supposed to help.

• 1:18:03Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:18:04Speaker 05

  Just like that. All you did is just say, hey, tell the police, hey, you know, you shouldn't mistreat this old man, you know. Come on. That's all he did in public.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:14Speaker 05

  The school discharged him. The guy committed suicide. The young man commits, yeah, he jumped. He's such a patriotic young man.

• 1:18:26Speaker 05

  Because think about it, he spent eight years in the West. He has been, he has accepted Western values, right? He spoke up when he saw injustice. All he did was tell the police to be nice to the man. And he was arrested. His school, the school saw him, immediately saw him as a troublemaker. Now, if he, he wouldn't be discharged if he didn't study in the West.

• 1:18:52Speaker 05

  His misbehavior plus his Western education was the problem. That combination

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  is, is the problem. So you see how dangerous Western education can be? And of course, if this guy's father or mother is a big shot, and he could call up his parents or grandparents and say, hey, you know, help, I need help.

• 1:19:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 05

  You know, and they could solve the problem for him, but he's probably an ordinary person, you know?

• 1:19:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:20Speaker 05

  So, but he committed suicide. It started a viral, it became a viral event because everyone was saying, well, what did he do wrong?

• 1:19:30Danny Jones?

  He was so committed to the CCP and the ideology.

• 1:19:34Speaker 05

  He studied Marxist works in the US just so that he understand what communism is all about.

• 1:19:40Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:41Speaker 05

  And he vowed to serve his country as soon as he graduated here and returned to China.

• 1:19:49Speaker 05

  Look what happened to him.

• 1:19:51Danny Jones?

  Um, I gotta take a quick restroom break. We'll, we'll, we'll be right back, folks.

• 1:19:56Speaker 05

  So, I have two friends who, um,

• 1:20:02Speaker 05

  there was, I think it was during the SARS break, outbreak, remember back when there was a SARS outbreak?

• 1:20:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, what year was that?

• 1:20:10Speaker 05

  Two thousand and three?

• 1:20:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:13Speaker 05

  Two thousand and three.

• 1:20:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:14Speaker 05

  So there was a, a benefit concert held uh, in the Chinese community to raise money for the, you know, for the, for the victims or the people who got sick.

• 1:20:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:25Speaker 05

  And two friends of mine bought tickets to attend the concert. Um, but they were, they were not granted admission

• 1:20:36Speaker 05

  at the entrance. Uh, it was a Chinese community concert. It was organized by local Chinese.

• 1:20:42Speaker 05

  Organizations, you know, I mean, this is dude, I don't know, I, I, it was Chinese. People active in the Chinese community.

• 1:20:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:51Speaker 05

  And so they organized the concert, two friends of mine bought tickets to attend the concert, but they were denied entrance. You know, and they asked why? They said, well, because the council general from New York, Chinese, China's council general is also attending the event. And you're not welcomed here. And they're like, why? Um, it turned out that they said that you're Falun Gong.

• 1:21:18Danny Jones?

  You're who?

• 1:21:19Speaker 05

  Uh, Falun Gong, it's a meditation practice. It's a mind and body practice that's being persecuted by the Chinese government. It's CCP's number one enemy.

• 1:21:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:21:30Speaker 05

  You know, uh, but because of its popularity.

• 1:21:33Danny Jones?

  CCP is against meditation.

• 1:21:34Speaker 05

  It's against meditation. It's against Falun Gong's principle of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance. It's like yoga. I mean, they have five exercises, slow motion yoga type of exercises. Um, so, uh, but it's extremely popular in China because of its health benefits. Even the high ranking government officials practice it. So the CCP has been persecuting this med- meditation practice since nineteen ninety nine. And so when my friends, when they were denied entrance, even though they bought tickets, you know? And they said, well, it's because you're Falun Gong. And then the.

• 1:22:17Danny Jones?

  When you practice this meditation, do you like register publicly that you're a part of this meditation?

• 1:22:21Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:22:22Danny Jones?

  Group?

• 1:22:22Speaker 05

  But they know, the CCP knows everything in the Chinese community.

• 1:22:28Danny Jones?

  Even if you are doing, practicing some workout routine in your own house in Massachusetts or wherever you live, they know what you're doing.

• 1:22:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, they know what you're doing. They send people, if they, they wanna control everything. If you're a group outside its grip, then they, it's not good for them. They will send people saying, pretending that they want to learn the practice.

• 1:22:52Speaker 05

  With the purpose to gather information. Well, how do you know, right? Say, say you have a tennis club. Everyone there plays tennis. And somehow the CCP, the government, wants to find out what you guys are doing. They send someone, another tennis player, to say, hey, you know, let me join the club. Of course, you're gonna welcome him or her. But that person's intention is to gather everyone's name, your contact information, find out what you're up to. So that's why they know everything. So these two friends of mine got denied entrance. And things got ugly because they got everything on tape. My friends got everything on tape. They filmed the entire episode. So as someone who

• 1:23:39Speaker 05

  who is very, uh, my name Lei in Chinese means upright and honest. And to stay true to my name, I'm like, this is, this is America. Why should the activity or event happening in America be subject to the opinion of a foreign communist government? Just because the consul general is here so that Americans, we're not allowed to attend a council, even though we bought tickets? So I filed, I helped my friends file a complaint with the message, whatever the discrimination. I mean, it was the first step to file a lawsuit. You have to file a complaint with the Discrimination Commission in our state.

• 1:24:23Danny Jones?

  But these were Chinese folks not letting your Chinese friends.

• 1:24:26Speaker 05

  Chinese American, yeah. It was taking place in Massachusetts.

• 1:24:30Danny Jones?

  So Chinese discriminating against Chinese?

• 1:24:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:24:34Speaker 05

  Right?

• 1:24:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:35Speaker 05

  It is, you know, I mean, you bought, it's a public event. It's a benefit council.

• 1:24:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:24:41Speaker 05

  I bought a ticket.

• 1:24:42Danny Jones?

  So in your complaint, what did you say?

• 1:24:44Speaker 05

  I said, it's discrimination.

• 1:24:46Danny Jones?

  You said the Chinese are discriminating against the Chinese. Did you say, did you say why, though?

• 1:24:49Speaker 05

  I said, because of the CCP, because of the persecution.

• 1:24:51Danny Jones?

  And you explained the whole yoga practice thing?

• 1:24:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. I said, because of the CCP is persecuting, the Chinese communist regime is extending the persecution from China to the United States. They're forcing the Chinese-American communities to follow their policy here. But that's illegal. You can't do that here. Right? And guess what? The opposition, um, they hired top, one of the top law firms in Boston, working for them, pro bono.

• 1:25:30Danny Jones?

  China did.

• 1:25:30Speaker 05

  Mm hmm. Guess who's helping them, right? And here we are, I'm using my salary to help my friends, you know, um, so it, it was, um, that really, that was an event that had a lasting impact on me. I, I, in the end, we couldn't fight them.

• 1:25:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:52Speaker 05

  You know, how, how, that just shows you how much control and influence Beijing has in America, over the Chinese-American communities. And all these law firms are lining up with, with them. Because the Chinese will promise you with business opportunities in China? You know, clients, they could give you a, a, a large SOE, state-owned enterprises as a, as a client for your law firm. They could give them so many things to these American institutions that I cannot. So to me, at that, at that point, I know there's no justice.

• 1:26:31Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:32Speaker 05

  It's all about money.

• 1:26:33Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:26:34Speaker 05

  You know, so I don't know if that's tied to the spy. You know, I mean, it's been so long, so I, I don't even remember the timeframe and all the details. But in hindsight, I started to think, well, is that because that law, the legal case? That I was involved in, I was trying to help my friends, that I was Santa, a spy nanny? I, I don't know. I don't know, but I, it's been too long.

• 1:27:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:27:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, it's a it's pretty a pretty crazy thought to imagine that all of the the Chinese people that are living here in the United States who migrated here from China could be part of some sort of soft spy network or that especially if they have family that are in China, so that China kind of has leverage over them. Uh, that's kind of scary.

• 1:27:33Speaker 05

  It is. My mother has a has a helper, you know, she's Chinese. And I mean, they have their WeChat. They use, you know how Chinese use WeChat app? And so my mother sometimes finds some interesting content, want to share that with with her helper. The helper said, no, no, no, if it's against the government, please don't send it to me. Because I still need to go to China. I cannot afford to lose my ability to visit my mom and sister in China. Please do not forward anything that's anti CCP to me. I'm thinking, this is America. Both of you are Americans. That's just how much fear she has. You know?

• 1:28:16Danny Jones?

  There was a story that I read recently, how all of the people that were being laid off and fired from the the Doge thing that Elon was doing. Government workers, uh, China was hiring them. All the people that are being laid off by Elon with Doge. China was was somehow hiring them. Can you find the the story with this, Steve? But it made headlines. So I would imagine that that operation failed because I don't think if they were trying to hire these people for any any sort of strategic benefit. It would have made headlines, other than the fact that they just wanted to like stir up some controversy or.

• 1:28:56Speaker 05

  I think all those Americans who made Doge so difficult is really helping China. I'm not saying that we should give them. Uh, you know, I think China sees right through that. Anytime Americans fight Americans, it creates an opportunity for the CCP to take advantage of.

• 1:29:20Speaker 05

  All CCP has to do is just wait until the American left fights with the American right to the point that you don't forgive each other and then the CCP comes in. And I think this is the perfect example of that.

• 1:29:34Danny Jones?

  Here's the from Reuters. Exclusive secretive Chinese network tries to lure fired federal workers, research shows. About a month ago or two months ago.

• 1:29:48Speaker 05

  But these are not Doge people. This is a federal worker.

• 1:29:51Danny Jones?

  Well, that was part of Doge, though. These are people that got fired by the Department of Government Efficiency.

• 1:29:58Danny Jones?

  Network of companies operated by a secretive Chinese tech firm has been trying to recruit recently laid off US government workers. According to job as and a researcher who uncovered the campaign. Max Lesser, a senior analyst on emerging threats with the Washington-based think tank Foundations for Defense of Democracy, said some companies placing recruitment ads were part of a broader network of fake consulting and headhunting firms targeting former government employees and AI researchers.

• 1:30:33Danny Jones?

  That's pretty crazy.

• 1:30:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:30:37Speaker 05

  This is a free country. But over there, everything is controlled. Right? YouTube, Google, Facebook, Twitter, or X are not accessible in China.

• 1:30:51Danny Jones?

  TikTok is, right?

• 1:30:52Speaker 05

  TikTok has its Chinese version. No, TikTok is not. TikTok is not accessible in China.

• 1:30:59Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:30:59Speaker 05

  It's banned. They have Douyin. They have a Chinese version.

• 1:31:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, but it's just the same thing but different name?

• 1:31:05Speaker 05

  But they're not linked. They're different platforms.

• 1:31:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:31:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, the backbone technology may be the same, but they're two different platforms. The algorithms, the censorship is different.

• 1:31:22Danny Jones?

  What is different about it?

• 1:31:24Speaker 05

  You can access TikTok in China.

• 1:31:28Danny Jones?

  But is it the same company?

• 1:31:29Speaker 05

  It's the same company.

• 1:31:30Danny Jones?

  Same company.

• 1:31:31Speaker 05

  They have a different product for Chinese.

• 1:31:32Danny Jones?

  And what, do you know, have you seen it?

• 1:31:35Speaker 05

  What?

• 1:31:35Danny Jones?

  What it looks like? Have you seen the?

• 1:31:37Speaker 05

  Douyin?

• 1:31:37Danny Jones?

  Douyin, is that what it's called?

• 1:31:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:31:39Danny Jones?

  What's it like?

• 1:31:40Speaker 05

  I mean, it's just like a Chinese version of TikTok.

• 1:31:43Danny Jones?

  Are they just teaching kids like rocket science and advanced mathematics and trying to make them?

• 1:31:47Speaker 05

  They're for all kinds of, it's like a social media app, you know?

• 1:31:50Danny Jones?

  I've heard that they like shut it off after a certain time and they only give you educational content.

• 1:31:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, they, I don't know. I mean, the Chinese are more, spend more time on social media than average Americans.

• 1:32:01Danny Jones?

  They do?

• 1:32:02Speaker 05

  Everything, yeah. Everything, WeChat, you know, WeChat is the super app that Elon Musk loves.

• 1:32:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:09Speaker 05

  Because it does everything.

• 1:32:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:11Speaker 05

  It does everything. You basically live on WeChat. You pay your bills, you do your banking, you buy everything. I mean, all you need is WeChat. But I don't like that idea.

• 1:32:22Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:32:22Speaker 05

  Because whoever controls WeChat is too powerful. It has everyone's data.

• 1:32:30Speaker 05

  Right?

• 1:32:31Danny Jones?

  Financial data.

• 1:32:32Speaker 05

  Everything. Your, your entire life is transparent on that app.

• 1:32:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Elon's aspirations and his, uh, his admiration of WeChat and some of the stuff that he's been doing with Doge is, uh, was pointed out to us by this lady who we had in last week, uh, by the name of Catherine Fitz, who is, uh, she's a, she was a official for the Bush administration in the nineties, hired by the Clinton administration, then put in by the Bush administration. She worked for HUD, the Department of HUD. And, uh, she's just a mathematical, economic master wizard. And she was pointing out that some of the things that Elon is doing with X and XAI

• 1:33:20Danny Jones?

  and also Palantir AI and with Elon going into like the IRS and the social security and all this stuff. She has this wild hypothesis. I don't know how wild it is. It might be pretty accurate, but it's, uh...

• 1:33:36Danny Jones?

  The idea is that if you wanted to create some sort of a digital social credit score that was controlled by the US government where people's all their financial data, their social data, they're so combined with X and AI and all this stuff and a stable coin, a digital currency.

• 1:33:58Danny Jones?

  You could use AI to combine this all into one thing and create basically like a an American version of WeChat.

• 1:34:07Danny Jones?

  And she, what she was pointing out very eloquently, which I am butchering right now was that essentially all of the puzzle pieces are there with what Elon is specifically trying to do.

• 1:34:20Speaker 05

  That's a great idea.

• 1:34:23Speaker 05

  It will work as long as you don't have a power outage or internet breakdown. What if we have a power outage like we've seen in Spain and Portugal, right? A few weeks ago, we have a mass power outage. There's no internet. Your life breaks down.

• 1:34:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:34:42Speaker 05

  People, I saw Chinese people, you know, go hungry. They couldn't buy food. When their cellphone died because everything was operated off on the cellphone during natural disasters. They can't buy food, even though the food is right there. They have no paper money.

• 1:35:01Danny Jones?

  There's no paper money right now.

• 1:35:02Speaker 05

  There's no paper money.

• 1:35:03Danny Jones?

  Everything's digital.

• 1:35:04Speaker 05

  Almost everything's digital. So.

• 1:35:06Danny Jones?

  So you can't buy anything with cash in China?

• 1:35:08Speaker 05

  You can, but people just don't like to do that because it's not convenient. It's because everything's on the cellphone. But we have a power outage.

• 1:35:18Speaker 05

  Your phone doesn't work.

• 1:35:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:35:20Speaker 05

  Or the, the cash register or the internet based cash register doesn't work. When people, when merchants demand paper money, you have none. What are you gonna do?

• 1:35:32Danny Jones?

  How often does that happen? Do wide, wide scale power outages happen in China?

• 1:35:37Speaker 05

  It has happened.

• 1:35:38Danny Jones?

  It happens here all the time. We have hurricanes here in Florida. And just last year, we probably went probably three, four weeks, maybe with no power. Not in a row, but there was like two or three storms that knocked us out. It turns into Mad Max down here.

• 1:35:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Danny Jones?

  People are like scrambling, trying to survive, you know, meanwhile. It's not really that bad. We still have running water. You can get a generator and get power, but it's like, it really shows you how vulnerable we are when that happens.

• 1:36:06Speaker 05

  But did you have internet?

• 1:36:08Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:36:08Speaker 05

  No internet?

• 1:36:09Danny Jones?

  No, I mean, we have, I have some friends who have the Elon's internet thing. What's it called?

• 1:36:16Speaker 05

  Starlink?

• 1:36:16Danny Jones?

  Starlink, yeah, yeah. So we had Starlink. Most of my friends had it. And we could go find internet at various places, but, but for the, for the most part, no. And there was barely any cellphone service either because the cell towers were down.

• 1:36:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:36:30Danny Jones?

  So it's almost hard, it's almost impossible to make phone calls and text messages don't go through.

• 1:36:34Speaker 05

  I think we may go backward. I think we may go backward, back to the 1990s.

• 1:36:44Danny Jones?

  What do you mean by that? How, how?

• 1:36:47Speaker 05

  I think technology is going in a way that's not sustainable. And with the, all the geopolitical threats, you know, people are talking about World War III.

• 1:36:57Speaker 05

  You know, the war in the Taiwan Strait, in South China Sea, in Europe, I mean.

• 1:37:04Speaker 05

  I think the, the next war is not necessarily a hot war.

• 1:37:12Danny Jones?

  It's me, the.

• 1:37:15Danny Jones?

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 1:37:18Danny Jones?

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights and rental cars.

• 1:37:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 1:37:33Danny Jones?

  Fine. No one deals more deals than. Please stop. Touche.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  I don't know what I'm doing.

• 1:37:42Speaker 00

  Need a break. Forget it, I quit.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 1:37:45Danny Jones?

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free. Shwing! Even our news is uplifting.

• 1:37:53Speaker 03

  You stay classy, San Diego.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Watch Tommy Boy, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The Ex Files, Wayne's World, and so much more. We're not worthy! The best things on TV really are free.

• 1:38:05Danny Jones?

  You just have to know where to look.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 1:38:11Speaker 05

  But it may take place over the internet.

• 1:38:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:15Speaker 05

  If it's between China and the US, I think it's gonna be over the internet. It's gonna be an internet war. And when that happens, the internet will break down into several huge intranets. You know, there will be...

• 1:38:31Danny Jones?

  Intranets?

• 1:38:32Speaker 05

  Intranets.

• 1:38:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:38:34Speaker 05

  Right, so it will be, you know, the US, the world will be not, it will not be called World Wide Web. It will be Regional Web.

• 1:38:43Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:38:44Speaker 05

  Because, you know, the US does not want to be connected with China. Because you want to disconnect. When that happens, you want to disconnect. So then that defeats the purpose of having an internet. It's not World Wide Web.

• 1:39:00Speaker 05

  So then what's the point? So that will break down the internet.

• 1:39:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:39:05Speaker 05

  You know.

• 1:39:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that would be, that would be a shock to civilization and society if that was to happen.

• 1:39:11Speaker 05

  That would just change the way people live. And people will go back to the pre-internet. Or, I mean, internet will exist, but it will be limited. You know, back to the early 2000s or in the 1990s when there are internet, people have a website, you know, you could see things. But it's not like today. Everything is web-based, no.

• 1:39:32Danny Jones?

  Do you think anything like that could happen?

• 1:39:34Speaker 05

  Oh, I think it's very, it's very, I think we've been warned over and over again. It's just whether or not people pick up the signals.

• 1:39:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, i- it's crazy when, I was blown away when that story came out about how Huawei was manufacturing shit, the, the equipment that was going on the

• 1:39:52Speaker 05

  Routers?

• 1:39:53Danny Jones?

  The cell towers, the routers. I mean, even the towers, the cell towers that were being, uh, having Huawei equipment installed that was within like, I don't know, a handful of miles from huge ICBM sites, like ICBM silos where we store our nukes.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  So

• 1:40:14Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:40:15Danny Jones?

  I mean, imagine if, if, if, do you think China would ever let, would ever buy telecommunications equipment from the United States that they would install around military bases?

• 1:40:29Speaker 05

  Only if they can make the, the devices or the equipment. They will have to buy, I mean, yeah.

• 1:40:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. But I could, I, I would, I would never imagine they would

• 1:40:41Speaker 05

  I've heard that

• 1:40:42Danny Jones?

  Let anything like that happen.

• 1:40:43Speaker 05

  Some of the chips that they bought from, from America are also encoded, also coded with, with, um, I don't know what you call that, you know, with, um, spyware embedded in spyware, yeah.

• 1:40:59Danny Jones?

  What kind of chips are they buying from America?

• 1:41:02Speaker 05

  I, I don't, you know, like hardware equipment that comes with certain electronic components that are hardwired, but there are also embedded with spyware elements, yeah.

• 1:41:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens in the next, at least throughout till the end of this Trump presidency, to see how all of these tariffs play out with this attempt to re-industrialize America and get us off of China, being so dependent on China for tech and for all of these other things. I mean, I think one of the, cause Trump was

• 1:41:48Danny Jones?

  The tariffs are nuanced, right? It wasn't just a broad blanket tariff. He's not putting tariffs on like things like iPhones or technology that we don't have the ability to create right now. He's only putting tariffs on certain things. So I think like we're gonna start to see, I would imagine, pretty soon here, some of the economic effects of the tariffs. And as far as like, um, supply of certain things in grocery stores or paper products, things like this, becoming, uh, less available to us.

• 1:42:21Speaker 05

  I feel that the dust has not settled yet in the tariff war. I think.

• 1:42:25Danny Jones?

  No, not even close.

• 1:42:26Speaker 05

  I think, I think, I think it's, we need to give it a little bit more time to see the real impact of the tariff wars. I worry about the next few months. I think there'll be dramatic changes across the Pacific in the next few months, precisely because of the power struggles in Zhongnanhai. You know, as far as who will actually control China or which individual or individuals will actually, you know, be running China. What will be decided in the next few months.

• 1:43:00Danny Jones?

  You really think so?

• 1:43:01Speaker 05

  I really think so.

• 1:43:02Danny Jones?

  You think something's gonna happen with Xi Jinping?

• 1:43:04Speaker 05

  Something is already happening. Some, something is happening.

• 1:43:07Danny Jones?

  But you don't think he's gonna remain in power for much longer?

• 1:43:11Speaker 05

  He will, he may, there are four possibilities. Number one is he remain a ceremonial title as a symbolic national leader, but he has no real power. That's probably the most benign situation. And the second is he will step down, but with no repercussion.

• 1:43:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:43:34Speaker 05

  He will just retire.

• 1:43:36Danny Jones?

  And make an excuse for it or something?

• 1:43:37Speaker 05

  Due to health.

• 1:43:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:43:39Speaker 05

  Number three is he will step down, but there will be repercussions. You know, he will be blamed for the problems that China is having. You know, there will be repercussions. Last one, this is not from me, people say. He will die while in office if he makes everything too difficult.

• 1:44:01Speaker 05

  These are the, it's not entirely impossible.

• 1:44:04Danny Jones?

  He'll be assassinated, you think?

• 1:44:05Speaker 05

  Ah, he will, because he's health, he's not doing well health-wise.

• 1:44:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, no?

• 1:44:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, this, this whole, this whole um downward, how to say? He started this descending, his power started to descend, I think uh it started from spring last year.

• 1:44:25Speaker 05

  Uh it, we start to see, when he lost the man who runs his military, I mean, he lost the man who runs the general office of the PLA. You know, it's, the, the person is the equivalent of um like a chief admin officer in the military. Uh when that man left in April last year, people started to notice his power. And then in July last year, supposedly he suffered, he had a major health episode. It was said that he basically passed out at a meeting. And now, when that happened, it created a power vacuum. You know, when, when you were, we, in a totalitarian regime, you could consolidate power.

• 1:45:10Speaker 05

  You control everything, but there has to be a premise, there has to be a condition, that is, you never pass out. You have to be healthy and stay in control. Because everything is in your hand, you have no successor, you have no deputy, right? You have no one to pass the baton to. So the underlying requirement is that you stay healthy in power twenty-four seven.

• 1:45:35Danny Jones?

  Right, and as soon as there's signs that that's going the other way, or you're not maintaining your health, then the, the chickens are gonna start coming home to roost.

• 1:45:43Speaker 05

  Exactly, you lose all of that. And that's what happened to him last July. He passed out, he had, people say he suffered a stroke. He, he passed out.

• 1:45:54Danny Jones?

  I can't imagine who would, like, to report that?

• 1:45:57Speaker 05

  Oh, it was in, at a meeting.

• 1:45:59Danny Jones?

  So it was public?

• 1:46:00Speaker 05

  It was public.

• 1:46:01Danny Jones?

  There was, like, I would imagine, even if there was media at the meeting, they would say, don't you say a word about this to anybody.

• 1:46:06Speaker 05

  Oh, no, what I heard is um all the media were. Forced to leave their equipment on site. They could not take any equipment with them. And there were no, they were all state media, state controlled media, so they obey. There was no foreign media.

• 1:46:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:21Speaker 05

  And it was a, a meeting with the top hundreds of officials. So no one was allowed to say anything.

• 1:46:26Danny Jones?

  So how did it get out that he passed out?

• 1:46:28Speaker 05

  The rumors were wild. There was just everywhere. Everyone was saying indirectly. You know, people were telling stories like, oh, at the board meeting, the big boss, the chairman fainted. You know, and then so they, you know, they were using euphemism to hint that, that something happened to the big boss. Without naming names, without saying what it, but everyone knew. It was all over the internet last, and he disappeared for weeks. And then he reappeared. You know, when he reappeared, uh, it was an event to welcome the visiting Vietnamese leader.

• 1:47:05Speaker 05

  And then all the media coverage were wide shots. There were no close up shots. It was all wide shots and, and if there were close up shots, it was frontal. However, the Vietnamese media, media leaked it. They took a side shot of Xi Jinping shaking hands with their leader. And you could see that there was a patch of his, uh, in the back, a patch of his hair was removed, was shaved. So people immediately suspected that he went, underwent a, a, a surgery, a head surgery of some sort.

• 1:47:37Danny Jones?

  See, that's, that's the, the, the confusing part about trying to figure out what's going on because, because what, what, how much of this is even American propaganda, just trying to make China look weak? Right? Let alone the Chinese propaganda.

• 1:47:55Speaker 05

  American, American propaganda, American media is very much influenced by the CCP. They're very pro CCP.

• 1:48:04Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:48:05Speaker 05

  That's what prompted me to do this program because I was upset watching how mainstream media.

• 1:48:11Danny Jones?

  We're watching the same media.

• 1:48:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, we, we watch American media.

• 1:48:17Speaker 05

  I mean, it depends on who you watch. Like, for example, New York Times is very pro CCP, pro Beijing. Did you notice that?

• 1:48:24Danny Jones?

  I have not noticed that.

• 1:48:25Speaker 05

  Oh, the New York Times. Um, I'll send you the picture.

• 1:48:29Danny Jones?

  I I've noticed a shift over the last, God, I don't know, since probably the middle of the Biden administration.

• 1:48:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, they started to shift.

• 1:48:38Danny Jones?

  It's been starting to shift away from CCP.

• 1:48:41Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:41Danny Jones?

  To be more anti CCP.

• 1:48:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:44Danny Jones?

  But I would agree with you before that, it was very pro.

• 1:48:48Speaker 05

  Very pro, yeah.

• 1:48:49Danny Jones?

  Like, I have friends who are very, like, pay a lot of attention to what's happening around the world and in China and other places, specifically China. And, um, you know, they have to, these are people that do a lot of research with these native countries' media outlets. Like, they actually will go and and pull up some of the the reporting that's coming out of China, or out of Vietnam, or out of surrounding countries, and corroborate it with what's going on in the, because the US is nothing, it's all over the place. It's going in every which direction. It's chaos. But to to be able to corroborate that

• 1:49:31Danny Jones?

  and and try to like, look at different countries' media outlets and, uh, compare it with the US media and see what they're talking about and try to figure out what the truth is, it's got to be a very difficult thing to do. Because all these countries deal with propaganda. They're all trying to push some sort of a narrative.

• 1:49:50Speaker 05

  Every country, you're right. Every country has propaganda. Um, but no one is doing as sophisticated as the CCP. They're the, they're called the master of deceit.

• 1:50:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:05Speaker 05

  They can manipulate public opinion in a way that you don't even notice it. Right? I mean, think about Charles, what's that guy, Bieber? What's his name? Charles?

• 1:50:18Danny Jones?

  Charles Lieber.

• 1:50:19Speaker 05

  Lieber, Charles Lieber. And there was another case that came out. It was a Fed, it was an employee, it was a director working for the the Fed, the central bank, or the

• 1:50:28Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:50:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, who who is in the same situation. He was approached by two Chinese students or visiting scholars, and who invited him on a all-expense-paid trip to China. Um, and he went, I mean, they were doing. Scholarly discussions with him.

• 1:50:47Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:50:48Speaker 05

  Uh, they even arranged, I mean, there's also honey, honey trap, you know, I mean, he eventually married a Chinese woman who's thirty years younger than him.

• 1:50:58Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:50:59Speaker 05

  And then he started, you know, leaking information to um, to the Chinese. I don't know why I'm talking about that. So I'm just saying the Chinese study their subjects so well. If they want to change your, if they want to manipulate you, if they want to manipulate a group of you.

• 1:51:19Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:20Speaker 05

  They study you so well, know what you're interested in, know, and then they reverse engineer everything. And then so it happens so naturally that you don't even notice it. And that's how sophisticated Chinese propaganda is, you know.

• 1:51:36Danny Jones?

  Hmm, yeah, and it's gotta be so much easier with AI and social media.

• 1:51:43Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:51:43Danny Jones?

  And these kinds of things, right, it's because if people are spending a vast majority of their time living online.

• 1:51:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:51:49Danny Jones?

  You can change.

• 1:51:52Speaker 05

  If I have a friend who is got into, got into, you know, he was um, um, she was um, she got in, what do you call that? Um, I know how to say it in Chinese, but it was a scam, online financial scam.

• 1:52:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:52:06Speaker 05

  You meet someone online.

• 1:52:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, catfishing.

• 1:52:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, catfishing. They build a whole community around her to make her believe that this is all real.

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm, yep.

• 1:52:19Speaker 05

  Right, they built several community around her is to make her like she was eventually, I think she was, she, they want her money, so she met this guy who, who, who's a great, very successful investor. And so eventually they convinced her, but they build a whole um, online social media community,

• 1:52:44Speaker 05

  like two hundred people.

• 1:52:45Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:46Speaker 05

  Talking about this investment idea.

• 1:52:48Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:52:49Speaker 05

  None of them are real, they all existed for her.

• 1:52:55Speaker 05

  So how could you, how could you not fall into that kind of trap? I'm saying that's just the idea. And this is just Chinese using the same principle, trying to, you know, take advantage of other Chinese. But it all came from the government, who's the master of deceit.

• 1:53:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:13Speaker 05

  You know, they want, if they want to change your viewpoint or change or manipulate you, they're gonna build everything around you to make you believe what you see is real. Have you, have you heard of the, um, the expression Stockholm syndrome?

• 1:53:28Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:53:29Speaker 05

  That, that's what it is.

• 1:53:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:31Speaker 05

  Right? There, there for, um, I have a psychology friend, psychologist friend, who said the Chinese all have Stockholm syndrome, more or less.

• 1:53:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:53:45Speaker 05

  Right? I mean, the story i- is based on the nineteen seventy-three, um, hostage situation in Stockholm. Two, two men robbed a bank and held three women and one man in a, in a bank vault for six days. At the end, none of the four hostages were willing to testify against their captors. You know, one woman actually got engaged to one of the captor, and the other started raising money for her, I mean, for him. So it was a psychological condition.

• 1:54:18Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:54:18Speaker 05

  Developed under four conditions. One is, um, the captor or the abuser have total control over the, the victims. Number two is, um, you have no access to outside information. Number three is you have lost hope. You have no hope about your future. And the last one is the aggressor or the, um, captor conducts small acts of kindness. Like, you know, there's a gun pointing at you, and then the next thing the person say, are you cold?

• 1:54:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:50Speaker 05

  You want some food?

• 1:54:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, you can see, this is a part of the human psyche, and it helps you understand why people are so susceptible to joining cults.

• 1:54:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:59Danny Jones?

  That aren't necessarily good for them, right? Like, there's a, I'm sure you're familiar with Scientology.

• 1:55:04Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:04Danny Jones?

  It's this where the hub of it is not far away from here. And, and they, they are guilty of committing, you know, human atrocities and enslaving people to work for them. And they're willing to do it and have their whole family enslaved and disconnect from anyone who doesn't agree with Scientology. Completely cut them out of their lives to, to remain a part of this abusive group of people.

• 1:55:27Speaker 05

  I think the CCP, whatever the CCP value is, is a cult, is very cultish. You know, because if you disagree with the government, then your life is endangered.

• 1:55:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:38Speaker 05

  Right?

• 1:55:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:39Speaker 05

  That's cultish.

• 1:55:40Danny Jones?

  It's funny, it's, and, and you have a restricted access to the internet and information around the world when you're there. It's very similar to Scientology. It's the same thing.

• 1:55:51Speaker 05

  And then you cannot say anything that disagrees with the government.

• 1:55:54Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:55:55Speaker 05

  You'll be punished. That's very cultish. But I think, again, in our modern life today, cult isn't, cult is everywhere. You know, the obsession people have with celebrities, I think it's a little cultish.

• 1:56:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:11Speaker 05

  We live in a cultish culture.

• 1:56:13Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:56:14Speaker 05

  And our obsession with these devices.

• 1:56:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Speaker 05

  I mean, what would, I think it's cultish.

• 1:56:20Danny Jones?

  It's a really easy, and it's, not only is it cultish, but it's a very easy way for the government to mind control people and to, to influence public discourse.

• 1:56:29Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:56:29Danny Jones?

  I mean, if you look at it, you would, if I was to, I mean, I couldn't imagine if I could get into, in, inside the heads of the people that control the world, or at least, at the very least, control the United States, right? Because if you were in control of everything, you would want to have the level of control of a dictatorship or CCP, right? Democracy is, if you're the leader and you control everything and, and you're in charge, you control all the money, you control all the weapons.

• 1:57:01Danny Jones?

  You psychologically, it is a fact that you wanna, if you're a human being, you wanna maintain that control and you want your kids to maintain that control after you. You don't want there to be a coup and to be ousted from your position to lose what you have. That's why if you're a, you know, that billionaires want to make more and more billions of dollars. They're never okay with just having their one billion, you want two billion, you want three billion, you want more control, you want more power. So if you are in control of an entire country and a population of hundreds of millions of people, you, you wanna build these things, these, these technologies like that go into phones that are working with AI and connected to all your social media, connected to your

• 1:57:45Danny Jones?

  email, tracking your phone calls to where now you are slowly encroaching this soft digital control into people's lives and before they know it, we are gonna be in some sort of a version of the CCP.

• 1:58:03Speaker 05

  We are confined in our digital prison.

• 1:58:06Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:07Speaker 05

  We already are.

• 1:58:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:58:09Speaker 05

  By the fact that we're so attached to our digital devices.

• 1:58:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:58:13Speaker 05

  If everything's digital, it's like if we have the equivalent of a WeChat, a super app that does everything to take care of our life, then we are in this digital prison.

• 1:58:22Danny Jones?

  It's, and it is a, I mean, not only is it like you, you described how like in China, your money, everything is, comes through this device, right? But on top of that, you have all the, I don't know if it's like this in China, but it's definitely like this here where we have Instagram, X, Facebook, where we're getting this dopamine hit from scrolling through these photos or posting photos and liking photos and sharing memes or sharing tweets with people where it's just, we are quite literally addicted in every sense of the term because our, our dopamine feedback loop is tied directly to having these things in our phones 24, or in these devices in our hands 24/7.

• 1:59:07Danny Jones?

  So there's a huge incentive for, you know, not, I'm not trying to like say there is some, you know, deep conspiracy for, you know, the tech elite to control the world, but all of the evidence is there if you wanna point to that hypothesis.

• 1:59:26Speaker 05

  They can, they have the means and the technology to control if they want to. You know, but it's also very dangerous. Think about it. I mean CCP is is one example for all those billionaires or the people who have the aspiration to control others. Just take a look at CCP and Xi Jinping. I mean, they want, they have the means and the technology, the digital surveillance apparatus to control everyone, but look at them. They're in a very dangerous, precarious situation. Because like I said, unless you want to be invincible, you cannot blink for a second, right? You can control everything, but you cannot blink. But but you are human after all.

• 2:00:10Speaker 05

  You have weaknesses. There are so many things you cannot control. I think that the danger of that is human try to play the role of God, and that's dangerous. I think ultimately, that's

• 2:00:24Speaker 05

  that's where, that's why they will fall.

• 2:00:28Speaker 05

  I can't speak for other individuals, but in the case of CCP is really playing the the role of God, because there's no religious freedom in China. And they want everyone to worship the government. They think the government is this almighty entity that could take care of everyone, solve all problems. And the government is always correct. We never make mistakes. The CCP never for once admits its mistake publicly.

• 2:00:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:00:58Speaker 05

  So, but you're a human. As human, we have, we're flawed. We make mistakes. We have regrets. You may as well accept that, because if you don't, it's dangerous.

• 2:01:13Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, the US government is guilty of the same thing to some to some degree. They're very much similar. And the, speaking of playing God, I think Chi, what, are you aware of the CRISPR babies? That they're creating in China? Where they're trying to like genetically?

• 2:01:32Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:32Danny Jones?

  Genetically alter?

• 2:01:33Speaker 05

  That's dangerous.

• 2:01:34Danny Jones?

  DNA and?

• 2:01:35Speaker 05

  The man who did that was not allowed. No, he, he's, he got married. His wife, his, his, his wife was trying to join him in China, but she was denied visa. So he was upset. So he said that he was gonna leave China. There's no, I mean, there are moral boundaries that you cannot cross in man's pursuit of technological advances.

• 2:02:01Danny Jones?

  Are there?

• 2:02:01Speaker 05

  There should be, like, for example, human genetic edits.

• 2:02:08Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:02:09Speaker 05

  Right? Because you don't know, because you don't understand the consequences. Because you don't live long enough to understand the consequences to human beings after you change their genes.

• 2:02:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:20Speaker 05

  Because you don't see the next generation or the five generations from now, what humans will become.

• 2:02:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:25Speaker 05

  So you cannot do that.

• 2:02:26Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:02:27Speaker 05

  Because it's irresponsible.

• 2:02:30Danny Jones?

  Right, well.

• 2:02:32Speaker 05

  But China did that. That man learned the technology from the West and then went back to China and started experimenting there. There are also Chinese scholars or scientists developing drugs to induce cancer.

• 2:02:50Danny Jones?

  What?

• 2:02:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:53Speaker 05

  It's, i- i- i- it was in, you know, Guangzhou. There were, there, there was a young woman who, it became public, I think it was last summer, because she had cancer, but she was part of the team that dedicated to that research.

• 2:03:12Danny Jones?

  She had cancer?

• 2:03:13Speaker 05

  She got cancer, a lot of them got cancer. Because they, it was, they, they, the, the research was to develop drugs that induce cancer.

• 2:03:25Danny Jones?

  For weapons?

• 2:03:26Speaker 05

  As weapon, oh, they didn't say as weapon, but think, why do you need to have this?

• 2:03:30Danny Jones?

  Why would you do that? Right.

• 2:03:32Speaker 05

  If that become? A product, then you could kill someone without ever leaving any evidence.

• 2:03:38Danny Jones?

  What was their excuse for doing that, do you know?

• 2:03:41Speaker 05

  Does the CCP ever provide any excuse?

• 2:03:45Danny Jones?

  Well, maybe not, maybe excuse is the wrong word. What was their justification?

• 2:03:50Speaker 05

  Well, they say to find cure.

• 2:03:51Danny Jones?

  Explain why?

• 2:03:52Speaker 05

  Just like the COVID virus.

• 2:03:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:03:54Speaker 05

  Why, right?

• 2:03:55Danny Jones?

  Gain a function.

• 2:03:55Speaker 05

  Right, why?

• 2:03:56Danny Jones?

  Right, like, why, yeah, why would you try to engineer a dead, a virus to make it more deadly?

• 2:04:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, their excuse is, oh, we so that we could find solutions to cure it. You know, by the same token, they say, well, we need to understand how cancer is induced, so then we could find a solution to cure it.

• 2:04:13Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:04:15Speaker 05

  You know, it's dangerous.

• 2:04:17Danny Jones?

  And how is, how did these people that were working in this lab, how did they contract the cancer? Do you know how, how they?

• 2:04:24Speaker 05

  Well, they're researching on

• 2:04:29Speaker 05

  certain chemicals.

• 2:04:31Danny Jones?

  Chemicals?

• 2:04:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, they work, they're researching on certain chemicals that induce cancer. And they got cancer themselves.

• 2:04:41Danny Jones?

  So they must have accidentally like ingested it or, or?

• 2:04:44Speaker 05

  They got exposed to these chemicals.

• 2:04:45Danny Jones?

  Exposed to a chemical that would induce cancer?

• 2:04:48Speaker 05

  I mean, that's what they researched.

• 2:04:49Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 2:04:50Speaker 05

  They're making chemicals that induce cancer. Let's put it this way.

• 2:04:53Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:04:54Speaker 05

  Right, when you research, you have to experiment different chemicals that induce cancer.

• 2:05:01Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:05:02Speaker 05

  So you got exposed to that, because you experiment that.

• 2:05:06Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I mean, it makes sense totally, but I'm just, I was just curious to the

• 2:05:11Speaker 05

  But why?

• 2:05:11Danny Jones?

  specifics.

• 2:05:13Speaker 05

  There's so many, there're just so many dangerous experiments that are being conducted without moral. Because what communism does is it totally denies the existence of higher beings. You know, the communism are atheist.

• 2:05:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:05:31Speaker 05

  They are, they believe

• 2:05:35Speaker 05

  There's no existence of God or other beings.

• 2:05:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:40Speaker 05

  You know, they think everything is material. And so they do not believe in the existence of spirits and all of that.

• 2:05:48Danny Jones?

  So do they, and this is might be a really stupid question, but do they prosecute people for being religious?

• 2:05:55Speaker 05

  Oh, yes. Yeah, there's no religious freedom in China. I mean, I just mentioned Falun Gong.

• 2:05:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:00Speaker 05

  You know, it's a spiritual practice based on the principles.

• 2:06:03Danny Jones?

  How do they, how do they come down on folks or prosecute people or punish people for practicing religion?

• 2:06:11Speaker 05

  Um, well, for Christians, they, you have to pledge allegiance to the CCP first.

• 2:06:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:06:19Speaker 05

  Um, so it's called Patriotic Church. And then the clergy are government officials. They take salaries from the government. So there's no separation of church and state. It's a joke, you know, you you pledge allegiance to the to the CC, to the party first before Jesus Christ. So that's the Christians. So that's why.

• 2:06:38Danny Jones?

  Xi Jinping, Jesus Christ.

• 2:06:40Speaker 05

  Yeah. So that's why there's the Underground Church. These are the people who truly do not pledge to.

• 2:06:47Danny Jones?

  Underground.

• 2:06:48Speaker 05

  Underground churches.

• 2:06:49Danny Jones?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 2:06:50Speaker 05

  Okay. And then, and then, uh, so, and then there are Falun Gong. Falun Gong is probably the most influential

• 2:07:03Speaker 05

  forces in China.

• 2:07:05Danny Jones?

  Is it similar to like Hinduism or?

• 2:07:07Speaker 05

  It's a Buddhist practice.

• 2:07:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's mind and body practice because in, see, in the East, religion, religion in the West has a very clear definition.

• 2:07:18Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:07:18Speaker 05

  It does ritual, there's temple, I mean, church, right? There's a Bible, but religion in the East doesn't, is a way of life. So for example, we always say, well, we, Confucius said this.

• 2:07:31Danny Jones?

  Karma.

• 2:07:32Speaker 05

  Karma, yeah, but not everyone believes that they're religious about Confucianism. So it's just a way of life. And the, and the purpose of religion from our perspective is to pursue wisdom. You know, it's like you wanna be a, become a wise man. You, you, you know, the purpose of religion is to achieve ultimate wisdom.

• 2:07:51Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:07:52Speaker 05

  Or enlightenment. That's the purpose of religion. So it's just a way of life. It's very spiritual and intellectual.

• 2:07:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:59Speaker 05

  It's less ritualistic.

• 2:08:01Danny Jones?

  So I don't understand. Why wouldn't you encourage that if you wanted a stronger country?

• 2:08:05Speaker 05

  Oh, no, no, no, no. It's, it's, it's, that's why Falun Gong has been severely persecuted by the CCP. Because it clashes with communist ideology.

• 2:08:16Speaker 05

  Because.

• 2:08:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:17Speaker 05

  Uh, because communism.

• 2:08:19Danny Jones?

  Right. No, I, I see. I can see. I can see. I can see that.

• 2:08:21Speaker 05

  Right. So. So, so Falun Gong is tremendous popular. The reason the CCP persecutes Falun Gong is because at one point, they estimate that there were seven, seventy to a hundred million people in China practicing Falun Gong. And that number exceeded the sixty million Communist Party members at the time.

• 2:08:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:08:44Speaker 05

  In China, nothing is allowed to be bigger than the party. So the former CCP leader got furious. It decides to outlaw the practice. And they sent people, you, you say how they persecute these people. They force you to give up. If you're a student, you wanna go to school or you? Or not. You give up the practice or you'll be kicked out. If you, if you, if you work for the government, you want your job or not? Uh, and then the, the, the worst is they created all these labor camps. And then they murder these people for their organs. Because.

• 2:09:23Danny Jones?

  Wow, yeah, I've heard about that.

• 2:09:25Speaker 05

  We've heard, heard of that because, you know, these people, they don't smoke, they don't drink, they, they meditate. So they're very healthy. So their organs are favored by these organ seekers. So the government built, um, huge labor camps to house these people and then murder them for their organs and sold for a huge profit.

• 2:09:49Speaker 05

  You know, there are mounting evidence on that. This is, some countries even passed law to prevent, to, to prevent its citizens from going to China to seek organ transplant surgeries. I remember Israel is one such country, and maybe Australia.

• 2:10:04Danny Jones?

  People are being murdered for their organs.

• 2:10:06Speaker 05

  People are being murdered for their organs because the wait time here is what? If you, if, you know, there's a waiting list. You have to wait years.

• 2:10:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:15Speaker 05

  To get a matched donor or organ. And you can't predict that because you can't predict casualty, right? Because you don't know, usually an accident happened and then there's match. You never know when these surgeries would take place. In China, you could find a match in two weeks. I have a friend, I have a friend who lives in my neighborhood. He had liver cancer. He went back to China, got it done. He did two organ transplant surgeries. The first time I didn't, I didn't match so well. And he got second. Both took place within matters of weeks. So the question is, mathematically, it's impossible to find a match within weeks.

• 2:10:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:57Speaker 05

  Because you can't predict casualty. The only explanation is there's a livestock.

• 2:11:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11:03Speaker 05

  Waiting to match you.

• 2:11:04Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:11:07Speaker 05

  You know, this is the biggest scandal of our time, the biggest atrocities of our time. Because people are being persecuted. And then the government monetized the persecution.

• 2:11:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:11:24Speaker 05

  This is evil beyond.

• 2:11:26Danny Jones?

  No, it, yeah.

• 2:11:27Speaker 05

  You know, and then now, um, they have, because they have mass data, they have, because

• 2:11:36Speaker 05

  now they rode out to the entire population. It's not just limited to Falingon people. They started this practice with Falingon. And now they've extended that to the entire population. So you have so many parents lo- losing their children, you know, teenager children or, or college. You know, the children in the colleges, they're never found. Because these children, because the government has access to everyone's biodata. You know, in China, the physicals are conducted at school.

• 2:12:12Speaker 05

  The schools does everyone's physicals. So the schools technically have your biodata.

• 2:12:17Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:12:18Speaker 05

  And the schools are government affiliates. Eh, the government has everyone's biodata. They could find a match instantaneously within their mass population. And if someone is willing to pay. And of course, they do research. If you are a child of a government official or if you come from an influential family or if you have family members living in the West, they probably will spare you because.

• 2:12:45Danny Jones?

  They know your, they know your blood type. They know the blood types of all the kids across all the schools. They go, oh, oh, little Jimmy in uh that school over there and that.

• 2:12:54Speaker 05

  But then they pick the ones come from poor families.

• 2:12:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:59Speaker 05

  You know, because they don't pick the ones that have money or have influences.

• 2:13:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:13:05Speaker 05

  Because it could be a can of worms for them to deal with afterwards.

• 2:13:09Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 2:13:09Speaker 05

  But if they come from poor families, they know a few million yuan will shut you up.

• 2:13:14Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:13:15Speaker 05

  And that has been happening on a large scale. You know, there's so many families. I saw videos where parents holding pictures of their missing children line up the whole street. You know, they can't find them. Now China has this digital surveillance that could find, could catch a thief with, within a matter of seconds. They have the best facial recognition technology in the world. Even when you wear a mask, they could find you.

• 2:13:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:13:42Speaker 05

  Why so many children cannot be found? Not just children, young, young men and women too.

• 2:13:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:49Speaker 05

  You know, so so it started with Falun Gong. Because that was prisoners, a group of prisoners of conscience that are massive. Right? And now it's extended. It becomes a, a, a, a multi-billion, I don't know, billion dollar business.

• 2:14:10Speaker 05

  And and the government is making money by murdering people, innocent people.

• 2:14:18Speaker 05

  But that's what I made program saying that the West will be some Western companies will be held accountable because all these devices, medical devices, medical solutions, drugs.

• 2:14:30Danny Jones?

  Twenty three and me.

• 2:14:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:14:33Danny Jones?

  Familiar with the scandal with twenty three and me harvesting DNA data from people and and taking the database and selling it.

• 2:14:39Speaker 05

  Yeah. So Western pharma provides or provide the the devices and then the medical solutions needed for the surgeries.

• 2:14:50Speaker 05

  They knew how their products are being used in China. If they stop selling these products to China, China cannot perform that many murders, the organ transplant surgeries.

• 2:15:03Danny Jones?

  Devices are you talking about specifically?

• 2:15:04Speaker 05

  Um, you know, like, um, medical devices to preserve the organs.

• 2:15:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:15:10Speaker 05

  Uh, or medical solutions to preserve the organs.

• 2:15:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:15:14Speaker 05

  You need, you need.

• 2:15:15Danny Jones?

  Like chemicals.

• 2:15:16Speaker 05

  Chemicals.

• 2:15:17Danny Jones?

  To to to preserve them for a long enough time so they can stay viable for a transplant.

• 2:15:21Speaker 05

  Drugs that you that that they need to anti suppress, uh, uh, um, like.

• 2:15:25Danny Jones?

  Really? China relies on us for that kind of stuff?

• 2:15:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:15:29Danny Jones?

  I thought it was the other way around.

• 2:15:30Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no. Yeah, the the drugs that that, um, that you take after the surgery

• 2:15:38Speaker 05

  to make sure that your body does not reject the organ. All these are imported from Western farmers.

• 2:15:45Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:15:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:15:47Danny Jones?

  I had no idea.

• 2:15:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's a list. There's a, there's an organization dedicated to stopping the organ transplants, forced organ harvesting in China.

• 2:15:57Danny Jones?

  You've alluded to how insanely advanced their facial recognition systems are there. And I'm sure that is integrated with AI and monitored by law enforcement and the government to track anything. First of all, what is the crime rate in China if they're tracking and their punishment is so severe and they can find anybody for doing anything basically anywhere? I would imagine there wouldn't be much of a crime rate, number one, right?

• 2:16:31Speaker 05

  No, the crime rate is high.

• 2:16:33Danny Jones?

  It is.

• 2:16:34Speaker 05

  Because people are unhappy because the justice, there's no, the legal system does not do justice for people. So people seek justice, people seek revenge on their own.

• 2:16:46Speaker 05

  You know?

• 2:16:47Danny Jones?

  But no, I assume not many people get away with crimes.

• 2:16:50Speaker 05

  People don't care.

• 2:16:51Danny Jones?

  They don't care.

• 2:16:52Speaker 05

  They don't care.

• 2:16:53Danny Jones?

  And what about as far as like the the social credit system goes there? Can you like, have you ever, obviously you don't live in China.

• 2:17:01Speaker 05

  I don't live in China.

• 2:17:02Danny Jones?

  You're not under that, but you know people who do. What is your, like, how does it work specifically? Do you know?

• 2:17:09Speaker 05

  I um, well, like, say, if you, if your dad or if if your child. Um, I'll say your dad, okay, made an inappropriate comment.

• 2:17:20Danny Jones?

  On social media?

• 2:17:21Speaker 05

  On social media against Xi Jinping.

• 2:17:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:17:24Speaker 05

  Okay, um, they could use that against you to say, when you're looking for a job, let's say. They're gonna look up all the records of your family members to say, your dad is a problem.

• 2:17:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:17:39Speaker 05

  You know, uh, you know, he's a problem for you. We can't hire you because your dad has very low score. You know, stuff like that.

• 2:17:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:17:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:17:53Danny Jones?

  So it's mainly tracking how people interact with other people on social media platforms? And like dissident type behavior and controlling people economically, right?

• 2:18:04Speaker 05

  To shut you up, to shut people up.

• 2:18:05Danny Jones?

  To shut, right, to to incentivize people to not talk out.

• 2:18:10Speaker 05

  So as a result, but people are smart, so they come up with commerluded ways to make comments without sounding like it. So that's today's Chinese culture. They have created so many indirect ways or means to to say certain things without, to kind of to outsmart the AI.

• 2:18:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:35Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:18:35Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:18:36Speaker 05

  And then, but once it becomes too popular, then the government will flag that. That becomes a sensitive word. So they have like a huge list of, they have a huge library of sensitive keywords for the AI to to learn. Okay, to a point that, you know, like, there are hundreds of variations, hundreds of variations of Xi Jinping's name.

• 2:18:59Speaker 05

  That the AI has been trained.

• 2:19:00Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:19:01Speaker 05

  Because people could be complaining about him without saying his name.

• 2:19:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:05Speaker 05

  You know, uh, so they they flag all these possible possible words that could that could, you know, all words that could possibly mean his name.

• 2:19:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, so it becomes to a point that you can't say anything. If this happens, you know, the AI will break down.

• 2:19:22Speaker 05

  When this happens incessantly, the AI would either become stupid, totally stupid. Or useless. Because you can't say this, or if they say this, it could mean Xi Jinping. You know, like you can't say, people have called him pigs, people have called him two hundred pounds. People have called him like a think neck bottle.

• 2:19:48Danny Jones?

  Think neck bottle?

• 2:19:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, like a flower vase, a thin neck.

• 2:19:52Danny Jones?

  Thick neck?

• 2:19:53Speaker 05

  Not thick neck.

• 2:19:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, thin, thin.

• 2:19:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, thin neck. His name Xi Jinping literally means a thin neck bottle.

• 2:20:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:20:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, so anytime you say, well, I bought a thin neck bottle. Flags, it it got flagged.

• 2:20:11Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:20:12Speaker 05

  You know, there's so many variations, so what are you gonna do with it with a? The AI is gonna flag everything. When that happens, it's meaningless. You may as well let everyone say everything, you know?

• 2:20:28Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah, it comes to a point where. Yeah.

• 2:20:32Speaker 05

  It defeats the purpose.

• 2:20:33Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes, totally. Where there's there's no more, it's basically flagged so many, because you've created so many different variations of his name, right? It's like, eventually, it it would get to a point where there's like, what's left? There's like, no words left to use, we're gonna make it ban every single word and flag everybody, and it's gonna become unmanageable.

• 2:20:50Speaker 05

  Unmanageable.

• 2:20:51Danny Jones?

  From the government's perspective, right?

• 2:20:54Speaker 05

  So that's what what's been happening.

• 2:20:59Danny Jones?

  And they can control money, right? Where you where you can spend your money like if you're driving a car, you won't be able to get gas in certain places if you are banned from a certain area. So like they they can turn off your money in certain districts. So you can only travel within like on if you're say if you're on house arrest, for example.

• 2:21:16Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:21:17Danny Jones?

  You can only go to like work and back.

• 2:21:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:21:18Danny Jones?

  And you're not allowed to spend money anywhere outside of that.

• 2:21:20Speaker 05

  Right. With bad social scoring, you're not allowed to leave certain areas, right? You're you're confined to that area. So if you go beyond that, then your digital devices will will not work. Like you cannot buy tickets, or you cannot get on public transportation, or your banking will shut down when you go beyond that boundary.

• 2:21:43Danny Jones?

  It's me, the.

• 2:21:46Danny Jones?

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 2:21:49Danny Jones?

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 2:21:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than.

• 2:22:07Danny Jones?

  Please stop. Touche. Priceline. So. Do you know people that have dealt with this?

• 2:22:15Speaker 05

  Well, the people I know, I don't because I have very minimal contact with people inside China. So I I don't know. But allegedly, but I but I read reports of people, you know, running to that. And and now with the banking, with the financial difficulties, they they limit the amount of money you can take out from your bank. Like, if you want to take out certain amount of money, they want you to provide. They don't tell you you cannot take money. They just make it so difficult that you may that you may end up just giving up.

• 2:22:44Danny Jones?

  That that's, you know, I've dealt with that here, too.

• 2:22:48Speaker 05

  Really?

• 2:22:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:48Speaker 05

  It's happening in this country, too?

• 2:22:50Danny Jones?

  Yes, it is.

• 2:22:50Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 2:22:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was recently trying to take a a decent a decent sum of money out of one of my bank accounts with one of the top banks in based in New York to transfer it to crypto. And it took me. The better part of two months to make it to get the wire to go through because they were making me go through and and their excuses it's they're trying to combat fraud. There's so much fraud that happens with, you know, which is legitimate. There's a ton of crypto fraud that happens where they convince people to give us a hundred thousand dollars for this, whatever it is, make sure they want to make sure people know what they're doing and they're not being scammed for tons of money.

• 2:23:32Danny Jones?

  So after going through this process like 10 times and them asking me all these questions like what your, you know, what was the color of your first car? And oh, you got that answer wrong? And are you sure that what's the name of the website you're sending this money to? Who told you about cryptocurrency in the first place? Uh, you know, all these crazy obscure things and then, you know, it took two months. I had to, I had to go, I had to drive to like my local bank, probably four or five times to tell them, explain to them what was happening and why I couldn't get through this. And they were like, we don't know why. They're not gonna let you do it. I don't know. I don't know what else to do. And I was like, I was like that close from pulling all of my money out of that bank and going to like another local bank. And I'm probably still gonna

• 2:24:13Danny Jones?

  do that, to be honest. But it's, uh, you know, that's a fucking problem. That scared the shit out of me. How difficult that problem, how difficult that was.

• 2:24:23Speaker 05

  Banking is becoming more and more difficult. Um, do not, my advice to people is do not use Face ID because I saw that, you know, in China, you have to use a Face ID to access your bank.

• 2:24:40Danny Jones?

  You have to.

• 2:24:40Speaker 05

  You have to.

• 2:24:41Danny Jones?

  Do you can, can you access your bank through like an a mobile app?

• 2:24:44Speaker 05

  Yes, but but passwords, don't do it. You have to use your face.

• 2:24:48Danny Jones?

  Wow. So you're not allowed to have typed in passwords?

• 2:24:51Speaker 05

  You are allowed, but you still have to use your face. You can use whatever password you want, but they, but like Face ID is mandatory. You know, there are so many stories that I read that older people that are sick in their, they're dying. And they ask the children or family members to take money. They can't. They can't, the family cannot take money. And they have to get their face.

• 2:25:20Danny Jones?

  Cause then they're dead.

• 2:25:21Speaker 05

  They're not dead. They're, but some bank, some branch require.

• 2:25:28Speaker 05

  The person like in person.

• 2:25:30Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 2:25:31Speaker 05

  So they carry their um their elderly parents from the hospital to the bank branch to take money out and one woman died in the branch.

• 2:25:40Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 2:25:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, and sometimes, you know, when when they have a deceased parent, they have to use, they can't do the face recognition because their eyes are closed.

• 2:25:48Danny Jones?

  Right, what if they're dead then what?

• 2:25:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, then what?

• 2:25:50Danny Jones?

  The government gets all the money.

• 2:25:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, they can't, you know, so facial recognition is just a, I I've seen that. And sometimes, I mean, I've seen my family members using that, you know, um, sometimes it doesn't work.

• 2:26:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:26:05Speaker 05

  Sometimes it tells you, you're not, you know, like, this is ridiculous, it's it's it's the same person.

• 2:26:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:11Speaker 05

  But if you have a different look or whatever, they think it's not you, they just tells you, sorry, you can't access your bank account today. And you're like, huh?

• 2:26:21Speaker 05

  I'm me, and there's nothing you can do, you just have to wait. Now, it could be that the bank just decides that no more, no more money taken out today. It we've reached the limit, we've reached the threshold for the bank, it could be that, it it could be, you know, the bank policy, internal policy for the day, it has nothing to do with your face.

• 2:26:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:41Speaker 05

  But it make you feel like somehow the the app doesn't recognize your face today.

• 2:26:47Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:26:47Speaker 05

  You know, a and so I, when I saw that, I'm like, no, I'll never, do not give your face ID away.

• 2:26:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, well, it's it's just so convenient.

• 2:26:59Speaker 05

  Because it can be replicated. With AI and all these technology.

• 2:27:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:27:04Speaker 05

  I think it can be rec- re- replicated.

• 2:27:07Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:27:08Speaker 05

  Right?

• 2:27:10Speaker 05

  And that's scary.

• 2:27:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:14Danny Jones?

  It is, it is crazy, uh, you know, if there, uh, I don't think there would ever be, I agree with you that I don't, I don't think there would be any kind of like interstate conflict or like a hot war between the US and uh and China. But uh it it, you know, if there was something, it would be something digitally. And uh I think that the US has become well aware of that, which is why it just seems like to me, we are doing everything we can here to.

• 2:27:45Danny Jones?

  Copy the tactics of the CCC in terms of just control or subversive control, not overt. Right? We try to pretend that we're like a, we want to maintain the democracy. Everything is free, free speech, you know, you have the privacy and no one's spying on you. But they're like there, they don't have to lie about it. Here we have to paint this picture that we are not.

• 2:28:11Speaker 05

  I think it.

• 2:28:11Danny Jones?

  We are not communist.

• 2:28:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it's regardless of which government, and I don't think it's naturally, you know, the left or the right. Either one will go down this trend.

• 2:28:22Danny Jones?

  I agree.

• 2:28:23Speaker 05

  Because of the digital technology, the digital technology is pushing the government to do that.

• 2:28:28Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:28:29Speaker 05

  You know, with us. So regardless which, who is in, in, in the White House, it's, we're going down this trend regardless.

• 2:28:37Danny Jones?

  Yes, it's the, it's just money. It's just money.

• 2:28:40Speaker 05

  And then control.

• 2:28:42Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:28:42Speaker 05

  You know, and, and the technology provides, provides them with the tools to do that. And it's impossible for them not to use it.

• 2:28:50Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:28:50Speaker 05

  Let's put it this way, and everyone does that under the premise that it's convenience. It's convenient.

• 2:28:56Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Right?

• 2:28:59Speaker 05

  But you trade your freedom or your privacy with convenience.

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes, you trade and you trade freedom for security.

• 2:29:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:29:11Danny Jones?

  Wow, this has been a crazy talk.

• 2:29:13Speaker 05

  Really? We're all over the place.

• 2:29:14Danny Jones?

  We are. There's just so much to talk about. Is there anything, uh, is there anything that we haven't covered? That you think, uh, we should talk about?

• 2:29:23Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 2:29:24Danny Jones?

  No?

• 2:29:25Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 2:29:27Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:29:28Speaker 05

  Do you think we've?

• 2:29:29Danny Jones?

  I think we've covered a lot. This has been, I've learned, really learned a lot today. This has been a fascinating discussion.

• 2:29:33Speaker 05

  Anything you want to ask me?

• 2:29:35Danny Jones?

  No, I think, uh, I think, I think we've covered a ton. This has been, this has been super fun. I appreciate you coming.

• 2:29:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would rather make this a two-way dialogue, you know, like than.

• 2:29:47Danny Jones?

  I'm happy. I'm the first person that you've been able to talk to in English for last, last go.

• 2:29:51Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:51Danny Jones?

  I'm happy to be able to break the streak.

• 2:29:52Speaker 05

  Well, thank you for giving me back the ability to talk to a, a real person in English for hours.

• 2:29:59Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:30:01Speaker 05

  I haven't, haven't been able to do that for years, ever since Covid.

• 2:30:06Danny Jones?

  Really? You don't, you don't go out much?

• 2:30:07Speaker 05

  Well, I've been at home doing, working on my YouTube for the, for the past, what, four years? It have no time to go anywhere.

• 2:30:15Danny Jones?

  You're making that much YouTube videos? You're, you're spending that much time making videos?

• 2:30:19Speaker 05

  Oh, you need to spend time doing research. Yeah. And I have a second channel on culture stuff. It's too much to do the CCP stuff every day. It's unhealthy. So I'm home.

• 2:30:30Danny Jones?

  Yes, it is, it is unhealthy to be focused on one thing incessantly for days and days, or years and non-stop not. It's, that's, that's the thing about this podcast is like a lot of, a lot of people that will dedicate all of their time and all of their content to one specific topic. And I would lose my fucking mind if I had to do that. Like, I like to diversify it. So that's good. I'm glad you're doing that.

• 2:30:50Speaker 05

  Okay. All right. So is this?

• 2:30:52Danny Jones?

  So you talk more about culture on your other channel?

• 2:30:54Speaker 05

  I have another channel called Lazy Looking Glass. I started beginning of this year. I want to talk about Chinese culture, you know, talk about UFO Feng Shui. I just did a program on the Feng Shui of the White House.

• 2:31:06Danny Jones?

  The what?

• 2:31:06Speaker 05

  Feng Shui.

• 2:31:07Danny Jones?

  Feng Shui?

• 2:31:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. I did a program on the.

• 2:31:11Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:31:12Speaker 05

  You should check it out. The Feng Shui of the White House. It's very interesting.

• 2:31:16Danny Jones?

  Please elaborate.

• 2:31:17Speaker 05

  Elaborate? Well, if you ask me, does the White House have good Feng Shui or bad Feng Shui? I would say it's not good or bad in the traditional sense, but it's good in an American way.

• 2:31:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:31:30Speaker 05

  So the White House has very American Feng Shui, but it has its own problems.

• 2:31:36Speaker 05

  The.

• 2:31:37Danny Jones?

  When you say Feng Shui, can you define that?

• 2:31:42Speaker 05

  Uh, literally, it means

• 2:31:46Speaker 05

  wind and water.

• 2:31:48Danny Jones?

  Wind and water?

• 2:31:50Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:31:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:31:51Speaker 05

  What is, what is Feng Shui?

• 2:31:53Danny Jones?

  Completely wrong about that.

• 2:31:54Speaker 05

  You've heard of Feng Shui before, have you? No?

• 2:31:56Danny Jones?

  Feng Shui?

• 2:31:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:31:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but I don't know if I know the precise definition of it. I always thought Feng Shui was like style.

• 2:32:05Danny Jones?

  Is that not what it is, Steve?

• 2:32:07Speaker 06

  I thought it was like, uh, yeah, like a symbiosis of things working together.

• 2:32:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:32:14Speaker 05

  Metaphysical ambiance of your setting.

• 2:32:20Danny Jones?

  Okay, yeah.

• 2:32:21Speaker 05

  You know, that if it aligns with certain celestial,

• 2:32:26Speaker 05

  you know, like a favorable Feng Shui condition, meaning that your setup of your home or your office.

• 2:32:33Danny Jones?

  Right, yes.

• 2:32:34Speaker 05

  Is, is in alignment with certain celestial condition or

• 2:32:39Danny Jones?

  Celestial.

• 2:32:40Speaker 05

  Celestial, yeah, or, or supernatural conditions.

• 2:32:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:32:46Speaker 05

  Metaphysical. You know?

• 2:32:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:49Speaker 05

  Uh, because the, the essence of Chinese culture is all about the invisible. The Chinese believe traditionally that the invisible, the intouchable are the Tao, whereas the, the visible, the tangible are only a container. So the ultimate, the ultimate Chinese wisdom is to pursue the invisible, the intangible. That's the Tao. That's the way

• 2:33:19Speaker 05

  that governs the universe. Okay, so they always look at the intangible, invisible guiding rules that dictate human affairs or human conditions. That's, that's a Chinese, a philosophy or a part of Chinese culture.

• 2:33:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:33:41Speaker 05

  And Feng Shui is just a very small branch of that, that deals with terrestrial Alignment, shall we say, or topology, is there a word?

• 2:33:51Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:33:52Speaker 05

  Topology?

• 2:33:53Danny Jones?

  Sure, like like material objects.

• 2:33:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, so.

• 2:33:59Danny Jones?

  So they believe in like spirits and ghosts and.

• 2:34:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, divination, astrology, um, um, yeah. Xi Jinping, oh, it's our favorite subject. Xi Jinping is very superstitious. He believes in the prophecies about him. There are several prophecies left from Chinese history about Xi Jinping, and he's greatly impacted by those. And there was one about a warrior with a bow, a warrior with a bow entering the palace, ambushing, you know, ambushing near the palace. It was a Tang Dynasty prophecy.

• 2:34:46Speaker 05

  Nobody knew what it meant until the past year because the man who is now effectively controlled the Chinese military, Zhang Youxia, the second in command in the PLA, the first vice chairman of the Chinese military, CMC. His name literally means the warrior with a bow, the warrior with a sword, and his name Zhang has a bow in it. So, uh, yeah, so it's playing out in front of our eyes. And Xi Jinping believes in this kind of stuff. In fact, all CCP leaders believe in that.

• 2:35:28Speaker 05

  You know, Mao Zedong never went to a place in China called Luoyang because it literally means falling sun.

• 2:35:38Speaker 05

  Mao Zedong saw himself as a son, as the the son. He never went to the place called Luoyang, Falling Sun. And then former CCP leader, uh, Jiang Zemin, his last name is Jiang. He never went to a place that's called Zhengjiang, meaning stifling Jiang or striking Jiang. He never went to that place. They're all very superstitious.

• 2:36:04Danny Jones?

  Are they all really into astrology?

• 2:36:07Speaker 05

  It's part of our culture, so they all believe, even though they're declared atheists, but they're more superstitious than anyone else.

• 2:36:14Danny Jones?

  Wow, that's fascinating.

• 2:36:15Speaker 05

  They're into fortune telling, all of that.

• 2:36:17Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:36:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:19Danny Jones?

  They get like their palms red and things like this?

• 2:36:21Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah. They even use um, people with supernatural abilities like, you know, um, to as their guide, you know, advisors on the side to figure out what to do, when should I do this, you know? Who should I trust?

• 2:36:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's really interesting. I had a gentleman on here the other day, Hamilton Morris, was telling me this crazy story about how during the Reagan administration, Nancy Reagan, she had an astrologer, who was also the astrologer for Ronald Reagan. And he was advising Nancy Reagan that she needed some sort of purpose in the White House. And that the alignment of certain planets and stars was telling him that she needed to uh, lead this new crusade for America to to end drugs. And this is what created the war on drugs. It was an astrologer. Who told Nancy Reagan that the star alignment was telling him that they needed to start this

• 2:37:22Danny Jones?

  war on drugs in America.

• 2:37:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:37:24Danny Jones?

  And they even had astrology computers, like literally, they were called, they called them uh, CIA astrology computers. That uh, I don't know how the hell they worked, but just the name alone is insane.

• 2:37:37Speaker 05

  I'm not surprised that the CIA use supernormal abilities to um.

• 2:37:45Speaker 05

  Uh to help them advance their cause. I mean, the Chinese intelligence definitely use that. You know, people with supernormal abilities with, you know, clairvoyance. Um, what do you call that? Telepathy?

• 2:37:56Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm, yeah.

• 2:37:57Speaker 05

  Uh, or te- telekinesis?

• 2:37:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:59Speaker 05

  And all these abilities to to see certain things. I mean, it's it's part of our culture. Yeah, I I made a video about the the palace in the world with the worst Feng Shui. You should watch that.

• 2:38:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:38:13Speaker 05

  Because I'm trying to bring a scientific approach to these

• 2:38:18Speaker 05

  superstitious topics. You know, I'm trying to bridge the two. And then if you look at the presidential palace of South Korea, it's ominous. It's it has the worst Feng Shui. I made a video about that. You should check it out.

• 2:38:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:38:35Speaker 05

  You know, it make you wonder.

• 2:38:37Danny Jones?

  So something about the inside of it, the way things are laid out.

• 2:38:42Speaker 05

  They they say that the place, well, the the the the place that that they use um as the president, it's called the Blue House.

• 2:38:50Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:38:50Speaker 05

  You know, and they call their presidential residence the Blue House. But it used to be, it's it used to be a rancher in the backyard of the royal palace. You know, it's not fit.

• 2:39:02Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:39:03Speaker 05

  It's not fit Feng Shui wise to be used as the presidential palace. Has bad Feng Shui. Uh, it's just not, yeah, not very, but just not a good place.

• 2:39:15Danny Jones?

  Right. Wow, that's really interesting.

• 2:39:18Speaker 05

  Yeah. It it they have, I mean, every Korean president were they either assassinated or died of unnatural causes or impeached? Or, I mean, there were only one. That was the previous, I mean, look at the current one. He was impeached, right? Every one of them. I think there was only one exception. I mean, it it defies logic. You can't explain why so many South Korean presidents had so much misfortunes. It's a democratic country.

• 2:39:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that is bizarre.

• 2:39:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:39:54Danny Jones?

  There's gotta be something to it. There's definitely got, it's just so, I mean, it's definitely stigmatized here in the US. I mean, the problem is there's so many, uh, charlatans here that, you know, there's, there's, the problem, there's, the problem is that there's no way to like scientifically measure any of that stuff, right? And it's, uh, it, like, it may be a, a very important historical part of Chinese culture. It's, it's pretty much the opposite here.

• 2:40:24Speaker 05

  I think the approach to science is different. Chinese, traditional Chinese approach to science is fundamentally different from Western approach to science. You, the Western, the modern approach to science is fact-based, right? Whereas the Chinese is the opposite. We, we went after the invisible, the intangible. We think that the invisible, the intangible governs. Like, for example, Chinese medicine, right? Chinese medicine deals with health issues before illnesses strike.

• 2:41:02Speaker 05

  Okay, so if you go see a Chinese, you know, acupuncture, I don't know if you have.

• 2:41:06Danny Jones?

  I've had acupuncture before, yeah.

• 2:41:08Speaker 05

  You know, I mean, they talk about acupoints, they talk about the imbalances in your body, you know, they're trying to bring everything into balance. Uh, but they try to hum, humon, bring harmony to your body before symptoms develop. By the time you have symptoms, it's already too late. By the time a tumor grows or something fractured, you know, like you need Western medicine to fix, to fix you. But the Chinese medicine tried to prevent that from happening. Try to prevent tumors from growing because they could detect the imbalances, the issues, the underlying issues that are in your body. But those are invisible because you can't see any physical symptoms yet.

• 2:41:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41:53Speaker 05

  That's why they address.

• 2:41:56Danny Jones?

  Sorry, continue.

• 2:41:58Speaker 05

  And so the Chinese, traditional Chinese medicine believe that everybody, you know, we live, we have to coexist with ailments. If you try to just get rid of them, it's not, it's counterproductive. Whereas western medicine just believe, oh, let's do surgery, let's cut it out, right? Let's remove the bad part.

• 2:42:17Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:42:18Speaker 05

  That's not the concept of Chinese medicine, it's about coexistence. You know, um, how do you coexist with the bad elements in your body? And the answer, the answer is, if you have, um, okay, so here's the analogy, it's an inappropriate analogy. So we live in a society where there are terrorists, right?

• 2:42:41Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:42:41Speaker 05

  So if you try to get rid of the terrorists, they may backfire. So the idea is, how do we coexist with them? Let's develop an environment that's so benign that they don't do anything bad. As long as the terrorists do not do anything bad, we can coexist. But the key to that is, you have to keep the terrorists occupied. If they start thinking about starting a family, make more money, or if we make our environment so benign, so good, that they just don't want to do anything bad, then we're successful. We could coexist, but there are still terrorists. As long as they don't do bad things, we can coexist.

• 2:43:26Speaker 05

  The same concept applies to traditional Chinese medicine. There are cancerous cells in our body, right? And how do we co, how do we make the cancerous cells stay benign or not further develop? So you want to improve the overall condition of your body. You want to bring positive energy to your body. If your body is imbued with positive energy, that it suppresses the cancerous cell, cells. Right? So that's the whole concept, so we can coexist. So why, we all have cancerous cells, some people, they grow into tumor, and other people, they're fine, they never have cancers.

• 2:44:08Speaker 05

  It's because their overall body condition is benign, or is full of positive energy. And that's why meditation or these traditional

• 2:44:18Speaker 05

  Uh, health remedies come handy because it's all about keep everything in balance. Build a benign environment in your body.

• 2:44:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:44:30Speaker 05

  Keep everything in balance, how harmonizes everything. Keep your body as positive, as benign, as harmonized as possible. So that these bad elements do not act.

• 2:44:43Danny Jones?

  Is nobody dying of cancer and diseases in China?

• 2:44:45Speaker 05

  No, no, that's not, you know, I mean, that's just, it's a concept, of course.

• 2:44:49Danny Jones?

  I want, yeah, but I'm curious, I'm curious what the statistics are in China.

• 2:44:53Speaker 05

  Oh, China is bad.

• 2:44:54Danny Jones?

  China versus America.

• 2:44:55Speaker 05

  China's, China has very high incidence of cancer.

• 2:44:58Danny Jones?

  Of deaths from cancer.

• 2:45:00Speaker 05

  But that's not because of, that's because of the pollution. That's another subject.

• 2:45:05Danny Jones?

  Okay, so.

• 2:45:06Speaker 05

  For another day, the pollution, the water is terribly polluted.

• 2:45:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:45:09Speaker 05

  Um, the air is polluted, I mean, and then the food quality is terrible. I mean, there's just, the whole, the whole list of other issues.

• 2:45:17Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:45:18Speaker 05

  That have, that have become ha- health hazard in China.

• 2:45:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:45:21Speaker 05

  But the traditional concept.

• 2:45:23Danny Jones?

  There's not, there's not this, um, this negative feedback loop in healthcare. And like there is here, where basically the way we treat it is just to make money. Right, where we have this, this system in America where it's the most convenient food and the most affordable food is the most unhealthy. That is forcing more people into the medical system, which is not designed to effectively treat people, it's designed to make money, do more surgeries, prescribe expensive drugs.

• 2:45:58Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:45:59Danny Jones?

  These kinds of things. It's not, the, the, the system that we have here is not designed to keep, really keep Americans healthy, it's to make money off of them.

• 2:46:06Speaker 05

  It's not a healthcare system because it's, it's a disease treatment system.

• 2:46:12Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:46:13Speaker 05

  Right, healthcare system is you should prevent, you should keep people healthy. You should prevent people from becoming sick, that's healthcare.

• 2:46:22Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:46:23Speaker 05

  Right, so so the Western medicine or whatever we have in our system today doesn't do that.

• 2:46:27Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:46:28Speaker 05

  It doesn't prevent us. So that's why fortunately, I mean, we have the traditional Chinese medicine or the at least the concept, you know, that that's available to us that keep us healthy.

• 2:46:43Speaker 05

  So a lot of Chinese don't believe in the Western medicine.

• 2:46:46Danny Jones?

  So so this would be a uh an aspect of Chinese society that they're doing better than we are in America, their their healthcare system.

• 2:46:58Speaker 05

  Not in China. I can't say that for China right now because it's very corrupt.

• 2:47:03Danny Jones?

  Let's like, Steve, I want some stats on on Chinese healthcare, uh mortality rate, cancer rates, obesity compared to the US.

• 2:47:14Speaker 05

  We probably uh Chinese probably do better in obesity, but cancer um.

• 2:47:19Danny Jones?

  Cancer is pretty bad.

• 2:47:20Speaker 05

  It's very bad.

• 2:47:21Danny Jones?

  New cancer cases, China expects to have approximately four point eight million new cancer cases, while the US expects to have around two point three million. Uh but is this?

• 2:47:29Speaker 05

  The population.

• 2:47:30Danny Jones?

  The population is what in China?

• 2:47:33Speaker 05

  You asked me officially one point four billion.

• 2:47:36Danny Jones?

  Oh, so it's really literally one billion, right?

• 2:47:38Speaker 05

  And definitely under one billion.

• 2:47:40Danny Jones?

  It's under one billion, but is it close to a billion, you think?

• 2:47:44Danny Jones?

  Is it close under or is it far under?

• 2:47:46Speaker 05

  Far under.

• 2:47:47Danny Jones?

  How far?

• 2:47:50Speaker 05

  You are ready for the number?

• 2:47:52Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:47:54Speaker 05

  At one point I projected under four hundred, under four hundred million.

• 2:47:57Danny Jones?

  What?

• 2:47:58Speaker 05

  Five hundred million, under five hundred million.

• 2:48:01Danny Jones?

  Under five hundred million. So you think that they have a very similar population to the United States in China?

• 2:48:07Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:48:10Speaker 05

  There's one billion people missing.

• 2:48:12Danny Jones?

  And this goes back to what we were saying in the beginning or earlier in the podcast with all of the fake IDs and all of this stuff being found out.

• 2:48:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's possibly one billion people missing. It's not a demographic question, Danny. It's a mathematical question.

• 2:48:32Speaker 05

  Let me ask you. It takes a couple to have two children to replace themselves. Right? Think about it.

• 2:48:39Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:48:40Speaker 05

  If every, if every, if every couple produces two children.

• 2:48:44Danny Jones?

  The, your, the population distings level.

• 2:48:46Speaker 05

  Right. So, do you know how many children does every woman needs to have in her lifetime? In order to triple its population in fifty years?

• 2:49:02Danny Jones?

  To triple its population in fifty years? You need to have what, uh, let me guess. I'm terrible at math.

• 2:49:09Speaker 05

  I, I, I, I gave you, I'll give you the answer, because I ask AI. It's, it's a crazy mathematical.

• 2:49:16Speaker 05

  If, i- i- if a country needs to triple or, or grow its population by two point, two and a half times, let's just say two and a half times.

• 2:49:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:49:25Speaker 05

  Over a span of fifty years.

• 2:49:27Danny Jones?

  Five kids?

• 2:49:28Speaker 05

  Each woman, you're right. Each woman needs to give birth on average between four and a half to five and a half children.

• 2:49:37Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:49:38Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:49:38Danny Jones?

  Is, okay.

• 2:49:39Speaker 05

  Now, China grew its population officially from nineteen fifty. That's when the CCP took over to control. Okay, China's population in nineteen fifty was about five hundred million. In the year two thousand, fifty years later, China's population was about one point two four, one point two seven billion.

• 2:50:06Speaker 05

  Okay, so it grew two and a half times.

• 2:50:09Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:50:09Speaker 05

  Right, from five hundred million to one point two seven billion. That's two and a half times over fifty years.

• 2:50:18Speaker 05

  Chinese women did not have, on average, have five children.

• 2:50:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:50:24Speaker 05

  Because of the one child policy.

• 2:50:26Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:50:27Speaker 05

  Because of the great famine. Because of the great famine, tens of million people died because of Cultural Revolution. So China, you know, from one political movement to another, and then to almost four decades of single child policy.

• 2:50:46Speaker 05

  There's no way Chinese women had five kids. Actually, the, the average fertility rate for each woman was one point seven for the thirty year from nineteen ninety to twenty twenty.

• 2:51:01Speaker 05

  Okay, Chinese average fertility rate is probably two from the fifty years. So it's a mathematical question. There's no way Chinese women gave birth to five kids from from the time the CCP took control to year two thousand. That's my argument number one.

• 2:51:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:51:19Speaker 05

  So there's no way China could have reached one point two seven billion people by the year two thousand.

• 2:51:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:51:27Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:51:28Danny Jones?

  Then why did they implement the one child policy in the first place?

• 2:51:31Speaker 05

  They thought they have too many people.

• 2:51:34Danny Jones?

  Did they really think they had too many people?

• 2:51:35Speaker 05

  I don't think, I think they've, the country was on the brink of bankruptcy. They could not afford to raise that many people.

• 2:51:43Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:51:44Speaker 05

  And then the second question, and that was a mathematical question. And anyone who's in statistics can can calculate that. Second question is, is a comparative study. India in nineteen ninety had a population of nine hundred million or about nine hundred million, which is only two hundred million under China's population of one point one million, a one point one billion.

• 2:52:08Danny Jones?

  In in nineteen ninety?

• 2:52:09Speaker 05

  Nineteen ninety.

• 2:52:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:52:10Speaker 05

  There were only two hundred million people apart.

• 2:52:13Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:52:13Speaker 05

  Within twenty percent.

• 2:52:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:52:15Speaker 05

  Okay. Now, over the next thirty years, China's fertility rate, according to the government, is one point seven, meaning every woman gives birth or gave birth to one point seven kids. India's fertility rate is double that, is over three.

• 2:52:37Speaker 05

  Okay? So how thirty years later, so now we're in twenty twenty.

• 2:52:44Speaker 05

  How could China still have more people than India?

• 2:52:47Danny Jones?

  Right. They wouldn't. India would pass them.

• 2:52:49Speaker 05

  Mathematically, it's impossible. So I asked AI, how many people should China have, assuming their fertility rate is correct in the year twenty twenty? Right? AI gave me eight hundred million, oh, no, nine hundred million.

• 2:53:10Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:53:10Speaker 05

  Nine hundred million. And then now the one point seven, one point seven fertility rate was overstated. That's official number. So experts believe China's real fertility rate during the thirty year was one point three.

• 2:53:23Danny Jones?

  Right, with the, with the, the famine issues, with the over, uh, the, the, um, pollution.

• 2:53:29Speaker 05

  And then the single, and the one child policy.

• 2:53:31Danny Jones?

  And the one child policy combined would be devastating for birth rate.

• 2:53:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. So the official, so if I applied the, the, the real fertility rate of one point three, China's population in the year twenty twenty was only seven hundred million.

• 2:53:51Speaker 05

  Seven hundred million.

• 2:53:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:53:54Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:53:54Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 2:53:57Speaker 05

  It's, it's a mathematical question.

• 2:53:59Danny Jones?

  And you think the government does not, is not aware of this, or you think they have to be, right?

• 2:54:02Speaker 05

  I think China's population never reached one point four billion. In fact, it probably never reached one billion.

• 2:54:11Speaker 05

  Because how, how, how could you? You have thirty, it takes a couple to have two children to, to keep the population flat.

• 2:54:19Danny Jones?

  Sure, exactly.

• 2:54:20Speaker 05

  You have single child policy for three decades and more. How could you grow? How could your population grow so much? I mean, the whole world has been fooled. I mean, it's a mathematical, simple mathematical question.

• 2:54:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I would be curious to, to hear what, what, uh, the conventional answer would be to something like this, right? Like, how would somebody explain this away?

• 2:54:45Danny Jones?

  Is this not being, is this question not being asked?

• 2:54:48Speaker 05

  I don't know. I raised the question. Well, so that's one question. So how many people did China have before COVID? Okay, my answer is about eight hundred million, somewhere around eight hundred million.

• 2:54:59Danny Jones?

  Steve, you got ChatGPT handy? Okay.

• 2:55:02Speaker 05

  And then the next question is how many people died during the pandemic in China?

• 2:55:07Danny Jones?

  In China.

• 2:55:08Speaker 05

  It's not the official hundred twenty thousand. China's official COVID casualties, one hundred twenty thousand. Okay, that's less than the one point two million in the US. We had, the worldwide casualty was seven million. I think the US has the bulk of it.

• 2:55:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:23Speaker 05

  One point two million.

• 2:55:24Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:55:26Speaker 05

  No matter how you look at it, China's real death in, during the pandemic is in the hundreds of millions.

• 2:55:34Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:55:34Speaker 05

  Mm hmm. Actually.

• 2:55:37Danny Jones?

  What is the population split between elderly and young people?

• 2:55:40Speaker 05

  I mean, it's older, it's the average age is old, it's forty something, yeah. But someone asked Grok, Grok three.

• 2:55:48Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:55:50Speaker 05

  This question, a Chinese, and said, please, you know, tell me how many people, please estimate how many people died during COVID in China. And Grok three built a reasoning model, collected economic data, consumption data, and, and estimated that the, the number of population that got shed during the three year from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two was between hundred fifty million and two hundred fifty million.

• 2:56:25Danny Jones?

  And where did it pull this information from?

• 2:56:28Speaker 05

  Official data.

• 2:56:29Danny Jones?

  Official data.

• 2:56:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, and that doesn't include the casualties that we continue to see from twenty twenty until now. People are still dying. You know, and I, I have, you know how many, the Chinese government has suspended the data on its funeral industry. It, it stopped publishing statistics on its funeral burial industry. And yet we've seen local governments build, building so many crematoriums and funeral homes.

• 2:56:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:57:00Speaker 05

  There was one province that I saw, which one was that?

• 2:57:05Speaker 05

  I think maybe Shanxi, was it Shanxi? But it, it, one of the provinces, it had, I think, about forty.

• 2:57:15Speaker 05

  Uh, it was a population with, I think, maybe thirty million people. It was not a big pop province.

• 2:57:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:57:24Speaker 05

  It had about forty um or estimated to have under fifty crematoriums and funeral homes. They're now building eighty.

• 2:57:33Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:57:33Speaker 05

  Additional. So if you didn't have that kind of death, why would you double or triple?

• 2:57:40Danny Jones?

  Unless business was booming.

• 2:57:42Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:57:45Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:57:46Speaker 05

  So it's a mind boggling topic. I mean, I didn't feel good when I did my program on that. Because I could accept that China has eight hundred million people. But no matter how I look at it, if hundreds of millions of people died, that brings China's population from eight hundred million down to like five hundred million or even lower.

• 2:58:11Danny Jones?

  What what I'm curious, what is the culture in China in regards to like the the ma- the male female dynamic?

• 2:58:18Speaker 05

  More men than women.

• 2:58:20Danny Jones?

  I mean, I don't just mean like the distribution. I mean, like the the culture, like here in America, you have this incentive for women to enter the workplace and not necessarily bear children. It's kind of looked down upon if you want to be a stay at home mom and raise children and do all this stuff. It's better to get in the workplace and just establish a economic power within your society as a woman, right? It's boost up the woman.

• 2:58:44Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 2:58:44Danny Jones?

  Is it like that in China? Or or uh what is your view on or what is your understanding?

• 2:58:49Speaker 05

  I think Chinese woman have, I mean, if they have a choice, they would rather be doing nothing, stay at home.

• 2:58:55Danny Jones?

  Raising children.

• 2:58:57Speaker 05

  As long as the husband, you know, makes good money.

• 2:58:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:00Speaker 05

  I think they don't mind that at all. That's preferred lifestyle.

• 2:59:04Danny Jones?

  It is preferred, but is it is it promoted that way?

• 2:59:07Speaker 05

  It's promoted to find.

• 2:59:09Danny Jones?

  It's promoted.

• 2:59:10Speaker 05

  It's promoted to find a sugar daddy.

• 2:59:12Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:59:13Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 2:59:14Danny Jones?

  What promoted by who to do that?

• 2:59:15Speaker 05

  Society in general. If a woman, you could find a husband that's that makes millions or billions that you don't have to work.

• 2:59:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:59:24Speaker 05

  It's it's the best.

• 2:59:27Danny Jones?

  Right, but what I'm what I'm like, like in America, it's. It's the the narrative that's sort of like pushed by the mainstream media. It seems like there's this unnatural narrative to sort of push this ideology to where women need to enter the workplace, get out of the home, get out of the kitchen. That's that's pushing females down and they need to get in the workplace and rise up. Don't, you know, you don't have to be having more children. This was like the feminist movement and all this was a huge part of this. And that seemed kind of like an unnatural thing, right? And and I'm wondering if that is, if it's anywhere near that in China,

• 3:00:11Danny Jones?

  or if there's any sort of push within the the government establishment or the media establishment within China to push anything similar to that? Or is it the opposite?

• 3:00:20Speaker 05

  We went through that. We went through that ahead of you because during Mao's time, he said that he liberated Chinese women. During his time, or even the early days of the reforms, all women worked. You know, when I was in China, I remember all all the moms worked. There's no housewives. There's no stay at home. So women were liberated by Chairman Mao.

• 3:00:48Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:00:49Speaker 05

  You have to work. You must work. So now China is going is regressing from that. Now the Chinese women just say, hey, you know, why? Why do I have to work? If I have, if I could find a wealthy husband, then I don't, I want to stay at home.

• 3:01:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:01:03Speaker 05

  So we went through that 50, I shouldn't say 50, maybe 40 years ago, when every woman worked, when women were glorified when you have a job.

• 3:01:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:15Speaker 05

  But we're going away in the opposite direction now.

• 3:01:20Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 3:01:21Speaker 05

  Because we didn't, women didn't like that.

• 3:01:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:01:24Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 3:01:25Danny Jones?

  Right. And it's not, it's not conducive to to increasing your population.

• 3:01:29Speaker 05

  It's not. I mean, a lot of women still work, you know, but it's because for economic reason, they have to support themselves.

• 3:01:36Danny Jones?

  They have to.

• 3:01:36Speaker 05

  And if they're, if they don't, if they haven't find a husband, I mean, they have to work to support themselves.

• 3:01:42Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, and it's not, I don't think it's good for for child development, for children to be raised by nannies. I think they need to be raised by their mothers. I think it's better, you know, than than kind of like pushing your kid off. If if a woman is constantly having to work 24 7 and not pay as much attention to their kids, wouldn't it be better generally for the mom to be spending all of their time with their children and focusing on creating good human beings to replenish society?

• 3:02:13Speaker 05

  Are you accusing me for having a spy nanny for my daughter?

• 3:02:18Danny Jones?

  Well, look, I mean, it's good to have a nanny, right? You need to have, you need, you need to have those breaks and you can't just be around your kids 24 7. You'll drive yourself crazy. But like people that are doing it 24 7, where they literally never see their kids because they have to work 24 7. Right? Wouldn't it be better, wouldn't you create a better human being if you were able to teach them your values? And and your uh your morals and and just raise them yourself? Because I mean, you see all of the worst people. There's this great YouTube channel called Soft White Underbelly. There's this guy Mark Leida, who's based in LA where he he interviews like all the prostitutes and the drug addicts that are on Skid Row in LA. And he was explaining to me, I was like, I mean, he, these are the the worst off human beings that exist in in in America, for sure.

• 3:03:05Danny Jones?

  And he was saying the one common denominator between all these people is terrible parenting or no parents.

• 3:03:12Speaker 05

  I think, yeah, I agree with you. I think people should raise their kids, not nannies. I I I think, yeah, the you you need to be responsible for your parent, you know? I mean, for your children. I see the difference, you know? Actually, the kid, you know, becomes more, even grandparents can do that. The Chinese want the grandparents to be the nanny now.

• 3:03:40Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:03:41Speaker 05

  You know, but you see the Yeah, I I saw that I saw the influence on my on my daughter. Uh, she became more difficult when the grandparents babysit babysit her.

• 3:03:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:03:56Speaker 05

  Well, when the nanny was with her.

• 3:03:58Danny Jones?

  I see that too.

• 3:03:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, you see that. So it doesn't work. It it, you know, my child, I have to take care of her.

• 3:04:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:04:06Danny Jones?

  Well, Le, thank you so much for your time. This has been a fantastic conversation.

• 3:04:10Speaker 05

  You think so?

• 3:04:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:04:12Speaker 05

  Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk to a live person.

• 3:04:15Danny Jones?

  My pleasure.

• 3:04:16Speaker 05

  English.

• 3:04:17Danny Jones?

  My pleasure.

• 3:04:17Speaker 05

  In four years.

• 3:04:18Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes. Uh, we'll have to do it again.

• 3:04:20Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 3:04:20Danny Jones?

  I'll link, uh, tell people where they can find you on YouTube and any other, you have a website or anything?

• 3:04:26Speaker 05

  Uh, just, you know, share my YouTube channel.

• 3:04:28Danny Jones?

  Okay, what's it called?

• 3:04:29Speaker 05

  Lay's Real Talk.

• 3:04:31Danny Jones?

  Lay's Real Talk.

• 3:04:32Speaker 05

  And then and then Lay's Looking Glass.

• 3:04:35Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:04:38Danny Jones?

  Fantastic work that you're doing. Working around the clock to produce this stuff.

• 3:04:41Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Seven days a week.

• 3:04:43Danny Jones?

  I love it. All right.

• 3:04:46Speaker 05

  All right.

• 3:04:46Danny Jones?

  All right, we'll link it all below. Thanks again.

• 3:04:48Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 3:04:48Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

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