Arianna Huffington: ON Why Sleep Is Crucial To Success

Often times we think that we cannot have success at work and success in our personal lives. We think that we have to sacrifice sleep in order to get ahead in life. We think we have to stay on our phones at all times to stay connected. But in this episode, one of the most influential people in media explains why that is not the case. Arianna Huffington reminds us all that 8 hours of sleep is just as important for our careers as 8 hours at the office and gives helpful tips to maintain a healthier work life balance. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:43Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 2:01Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised to yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,

• 2:45Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Why do people say that they get their best ideas in the shower?

• 3:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  The truth is that our best ideas come from the wisdom within. And that's why when you talk about making wisdom go viral, that's also part of what allows people to connect with their own inner wisdom. And their best ideas come from that.

• 3:35Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for coming back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. I'm so grateful that all of you are taking out time to invest in your health and wellbeing. You could be anywhere in the world right now, but you're either listening to this or watching this. Whether you're walking your dog, you're commuting to or from work, or maybe you're at work, maybe you're taking a break, or maybe you're at the gym, wherever you are, thank you. Thank you so much for investing in your education over entertainment, but we're going to make this really fun too. And today's guest is someone I'm so grateful and honoured to be sitting next to. She's someone who needs no introduction. She's the founder of the Huffington Post. She's the CEO and founder of Thrive Global

• 4:20Jay Shetty?

  and one of the most influential people in the media and world today. Her name is Arianna Huffington. Arianna, thank you so much for doing this, honestly.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Thank you, Jay. I'm so happy to be here with you, really. I've been looking forward to it all week.

• 4:35Jay Shetty?

  I'm so grateful, honestly, because we're sitting inside Thrive Global right now in New York. These are your brand new offices. They're absolutely beautiful.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 4:42Jay Shetty?

  Your team is amazing, as always. And you've opened this up as our home and made us feel so comfortable.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Anytime.

• 4:49Jay Shetty?

  But so today, I've got so many things I want to dive into. I feel that you're the thought leader the world really needs today. And I'm so grateful that you've taken it upon yourself to make your mission to help people thrive all across the world. And I want to go back to your book that you called Thrive. It's a book that I believed when I read it, I just felt I was like, I can't believe someone's actually put this all into words. It was, I connected so deeply with it. And my big question, which I want to start off with, is today, how can our listeners redefine success for themselves? What does it mean to go through that process that you so beautifully outline? Because today, we're bombarded by so many definitions of success. How did you start that process?

• 5:34Jay Shetty?

  And how can our listeners do that?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for starting with the most important question, which was the question I tried to address with Thrive the book and that we are working on with Thrive the company. And basically, you know, you and I love reading philosophy, whether it's the Greeks, the Vedas, Stoic philosophers. And the bottom line is that what is the good life is a constant priority for philosophers, trying to define the good life. What happened in our modern culture is that we shrunk down the definition of the good life to success. And we shrunk the definition of success down to two metrics, money and status slash power.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  And that's like trying to sit on a two-legged stool. Sooner or later, you fall off.

• 6:28Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  So what we're trying to teach here at Thrive, and what I'd love everybody listening and watching to take home, is to redefine success, to include a third metric. Nothing wrong with the first two, but the third is what completes our purpose. And it includes well-being, you know, prioritizing our health and well-being, wisdom, I love your mission of making wisdom viral, wonder, you know, a sense of wonder about the universe, the mystery of life, and giving, giving back. That's something that you chronicle so often in your work.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  So for me, that's what's a complete life. And so anytime you integrate any of this into your daily life, you're getting closer to a fuller definition of the good life.

• 7:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that. And I think that's so clear. And it's such a great direction for people because we can almost look at them and be like, okay, where am I struggling?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:36Jay Shetty?

  Right? So we can look at that and say, okay, which leg of that stool is missing in my life? And it becomes a focus area. Now, when I do see that, though, sometimes some people may think, well, that's a lot of things to juggle. And maybe I'm working really hard and I'm really ambitious. And that means I'm sacrificing sleep and my health is falling apart. How have you found, or what are your beliefs around real balance in the striving for making an impact, in the striving for wanting to make a difference? How do we also take care of all of those juggling balls? It feels like there's a lot.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  There is a lot. And I think the only way is through micro steps. At Thrive, we talk about... Small, daily incremental steps that are not hard. We just need to make sure we take one step at a time. So whatever it is you want to focus on, let's say you want to focus on improving your sleep because you have actually read the science and the data and you know that when you improve your sleep, you actually improve your performance. So even if you didn't care about your health and you just care about your performance, just look at elite athletes.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  There's no way Tom Brady would go to a Super Bowl sleep deprived. Because he knows if he wants peak performance, he needs to get enough sleep, eat right, have recovery time as well as training time. So that's really what I've forgotten. So let me give you one of my favorite sleep micro steps. We have over 700, but I love the fact that you're focusing on making our conversation actionable for people. So my micro step, my favorite micro step is speak a time at the end of your day that you actually declare the end of your working day. Because the truth is that there is no end to our working day.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  The truth is that we could all spend the whole night clearing our inboxes, so catching up with work in our always on world. So you have to declare an arbitrary end. And because human beings learn through ritual, you mark that end by turning off your phone and gently escorting it out of your bedroom.

• 9:59Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  It's small but key, you know, not sleeping with your phone. Are you sleeping with your phone?

• 10:06Jay Shetty?

  No, I don't sleep with my phone.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Amazing. It's absolutely essential because if you sleep with your phone, if you wake up in the middle of the night and you can't go right back to sleep, you are going to be tempted to pick it up and scroll through Instagram.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Or answer some text. And it's much harder to go to sleep and have a deep, really recharging sleep.

• 10:31Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Yeah, when I first trained myself to do that, I used to lock all my devices in my car outside. So I used to literally go and put my phone, my laptop, everything, because I wanted to train myself

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:42Jay Shetty?

  out of the habit. And I remember getting a real alarm clock at that time, so that I could still wake up if you need an alarm clock. And now I've been able to train myself to wake up after eight and a half hours of sleep a day. So no matter what time I go to sleep, usually it's the same time. I always sleep eight and a half hours and I don't need an alarm to get up. So I get up naturally, my body wakes me up. And that's been such a beautiful conditioning. And it's taken me time, but it really helps because now you're no longer conditioned to wake up to anything. Can wake up at your own pace.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Exactly. I think this is amazing what you just said. At first, it may be hard because we're breaking addictions.

• 11:18Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  But then, the reward of how we feel is so enormous. I mean, for me now, it's like the reward of feeling fully recharged is so great. I don't really like myself when I'm sleep deprived. I mean, I'm more reactive, I'm more emotional. I'm less empathetic, I'm less creative. I don't really want to be around me. So it's actually something that then becomes a magnet to continue doing that.

• 11:48Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Are there any other habits that you've had to rewire in your life? Anything that you saw as a trigger and you started building steps, micro steps? I love that to building. Were there any others?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yes, like, I used to be one of the people who would think, come January 1st, I'm going to start working out for an hour every day. And then by February 1st, I would drop it. So instead, I put a stationary bike in my bedroom. And now, every morning, I do 30 minutes on my bike. And I can be on my email, because it's okay, you know, it's a stationary bike, so I feel productive. And, you know, when I want to go harder, I'll just do it without going on my email. But, yeah, I made it super simple. And now, honestly, I just like get out of bed and I get on my bike.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  It's become like second nature. It's no longer an issue. Because, as you know, because you're a student of behavioral science. Discipline is not going to cut it. We need to change our environment and make it super easy to make these micro steps.

• 12:57Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  And having the bike right there, my tennis shoes right there, makes it much easier.

• 13:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. You're breaking that chain in your mind to avoid that. I had one client that I used to coach, a very successful executive, and she loved doing yoga, but she could never make it. So we made sure that she had her yoga mat next to her bed, so she could literally roll off her bed and onto her yoga mat. And it would just be like a reminder that it was right there. She didn't have to go to a gym, or she didn't have to go somewhere else. She could do yoga right next to her bed, if that's what it meant.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 13:29Jay Shetty?

  Just something to break the chain. Yeah, I love that. That's great. I'm sure you hear this all the time with Thrive Global, yourself. You're working with athletes, celebrities, executives, directors. You're working with the busiest people on the planet, right? That's what you do every day, and you know that. And you are one of the busiest people on the planet too. And I'm sure you get people asking you, "Aaron, I'm so fearful of falling behind."

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:54Jay Shetty?

  "I'm so scared that someone important will send me a message and I'll miss it, or something will happen in the news and I didn't see the notification." How are you advising people who have that fear or insecurity that they may fall behind?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  So that's where changing beliefs is key. So in all our workshops with corporations, we start with changing beliefs. Because the beliefs we have are really like the automatic pilot on a ship, you know? And what we tell ourselves we're going to do is like the captain steering the ship in one way or another. But if the automatic pilot is set in a particular direction, that's where the ship is going to go. So we start by changing beliefs, because the belief that in order to succeed, you have to burn out is incredibly entrenched in our culture. It really goes back to the first industrial revolution,

• 14:53Speaker 01

  when we started revering machines. And the goal of a machine is to minimize downtime. The goal of software is to minimize downtime. But for the human operating system, downtime is a feature, not a bug.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  And so we need to show people the data, show people the science, introduce people to ancient wisdom. You know, we've done a wonderful series, I don't know if you've seen, I'll send it to you, on Chinese ancient wisdom. We're doing a lot on Indian wisdom, on Stoic philosophers. Our conference room here, all our conference rooms are named after philosophers, like the Marcus Aurelius room.

• 15:36Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I love that.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Is our boardroom. So the reason for all that is that it requires both science and storytelling to move people. But we have found that the thing that moves people more than anything is hearing from successful people in the arena.

• 15:56Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  It's what you said, it's like, it's almost like people need to be given permission and need to hear from people who are successful, who are not chilling under a mango tree. So when Jeff Bezos writes a piece and says, why am I getting eight hours of sleep is good for Amazon shareholders? That piece went crazy viral and it made a lot of people feel if Jeff Bezos gets eight hours of sleep

• 16:23Speaker 01

  and he's not exactly slowing down, that shows that there is something here for me to look at. Or Philip Schindler, the chief business officer at Google, said to me at a dinner that he had this moment of epiphany when he came home from a trip and his young children, he told his children, daddy's taking you to the playground. And his five-year-old son said, oh no, can't the babysitter take us? And he asked why, and the little boy said, because when you're in the playground, you're always on your phone. And that was his moment of epiphany.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And after that, he stopped being on his phone when he's with his children. You know, he travels a lot, it's not like he is with his children all the time.

• 17:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  So he made that sacred time. And then he texted me to let me know what an amazing impact it had within Google. So people who felt that...

• 17:27Speaker 01

  They could also do that, that they could take that step without being afraid that they are going to fall behind.

• 17:34Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you're so right that that science storytelling and that last piece of people living the example is the most powerful because when we see someone who looks like us, talks like us, walks like us, has the same diary as us, and they can do it. And it's funny, isn't it, that we get impressed. I was at a hangout the other day and I was with a lot of other social media people and we were all hanging out together and no one used their phone for about three hours.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:02Jay Shetty?

  Because we were all just connecting as human beings. And everyone was, you know, there were a few people there, they were so impressed. They were like, how were you guys not on your phones? And I was just like, because I love this. Like, I love being on a plane. I pretend that planes still don't have Wi-Fi. Like, I just convince myself that Wi-Fi doesn't exist on planes because I love being able to switch off, like what you're saying, that it's not a bug, right?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  It's a feature.

• 18:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a feature. I love that. That's so powerful that when we feel, and that's our problem, right? Like, we think when we're slowing down, we're like, oh, God, why am I slowing down? I need to, you know, we panic. We go, oh, no, I'm becoming less productive. But actually, that's a feature reminding us to press pause, to slow down, to restart.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  And then we can actually observe why and how we become more productive.

• 18:46Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 18:48Jay Shetty?

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• 19:28Jay Shetty?

  credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated, calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favourite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last and it completely shifted the energy of the room.

• 20:13Jay Shetty?

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• 20:57Jay Shetty?

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• 21:20Speaker 01

  You know, why do people say that they get their best ideas in the shower?

• 21:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  It's the truth is that our best ideas come from the wisdom within. And that's why when you talk about making wisdom go viral, that's also part of what allows people to connect with their own inner wisdom. And their best ideas come from that.

• 21:42Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Let's talk about inner wisdom a bit because I think we both believe in it very strongly. I know that in my life, I feel I've always been guided by my inner wisdom.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:52Jay Shetty?

  I rarely feel guided by my head. I rarely try and feel guided by the market or the industry. I'm constantly looking to my inner compass to be guided. I'd love to hear from you how you've done that in your life and how you've been able to sift out your inner voice from the noise that often arises from everything around us.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  So for me, that's kind of the heart of everything I'm doing and that we're doing at Thrive, which is the truth. And that, I believe, is an absolute truth, that every one of us has a place of wisdom, peace, and strength inside us. It's our birthright. No matter what we do or where we are or where we are born, we do have that. And most of the time, we are completely disconnected from it. And that's such a shame. It's like having been given this incredible inheritance and not even knowing that you have it. And that's why I love when Thich Nhat Hanh said

• 22:57Speaker 01

  that right now with our addiction to our phones and social media and games, he said it has never been easier to run away from ourselves. And so everything we are doing here is helping people reconnect with that place. Now, there is nobody I know who lives in that place all the time.

• 23:16Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  It's not, that's not what we're saying. What we want to create is a great cost correcting mechanism so that we know, I kind of know, and I'm sure you know, when I'm not in that place. And so the first thing I want to do is help myself get back to that place, whatever it takes. Because from that place, I'm so much more productive, so much more creative, and so much more joyful. You know, we don't talk enough about joy. But after all, the purpose of life is not just to be productive.

• 23:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely not.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  This is not a dress rehearsal.

• 23:55Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  So. If we can also connect with our joy and our loving, suddenly life becomes kind of like a little miracle.

• 24:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. What are a few things people can do every day to get that voice back for themselves? Like you said, I think so many of us have run so far away from ourselves, like Thich Nhat Hanh mentioned, you quoted, that we don't even know what our self is anymore.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:22Jay Shetty?

  Right? Like, it's like, well, what is it? Like, I have 10 voices in my head, and one of them's a TV show, and one of them's my favorite song, and one of them's my mom's voice, and my dad's voice. Like, what are a couple of things that people can do on a daily basis that's gonna help them get closer to that voice again?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Well, I believe, and I know you do too, that one of the keys is gratitude. That doesn't mean not acknowledging the pain, because the pain is often real, you know? There's a lot of pain in the world and in our lives. But also recognizing that the pain is not everything, the hardship is not everything, the darkness is not everything. And being able to hold, when we are going through a hard time, these two realities in our hearts, as well as our heads, at the same time.

• 25:14Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  That, for me, is the key. And so, doing again, micro steps, like starting your morning, taking one minute in the morning, one minute, to remember three things you are grateful for, or set your intention for the day, is absolutely key. If you don't have one minute, you don't have a life. The majority of people go directly to their phone first thing in the morning, and you don't know what you're going to see.

• 25:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, not at all.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  And so, suddenly, the cortisol hormone, the stress hormone floods your body before you have even gotten out of bed. So, how you start your day is absolutely key.

• 26:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  And so is how you end your day.

• 26:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Because every day is a mixture of good things and bad things happening. You know, I've never had a day which was all amazing.

• 26:13Jay Shetty?

  Nope.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Well, maybe one or two, but you know.

• 26:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  It's not the norm.

• 26:17Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  So, you can go to bed thinking of all the things that went wrong. Or you can go to bed thinking of all the things you are grateful for.

• 26:29Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  And that changes the quality of your sleep.

• 26:33Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  So what is interesting, Jay, as you know, is that in terms of our evolution, our mind tends to go to the negative. Because that's how we survived, right? I mean, if we were followed by a tiger and focused on the sunset, we would not be here.

• 26:51Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  But right now, we continue to live in this fight or flight mode, even though there are a lot of tigers around.

• 26:59Jay Shetty?

  Definitely not.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  And that's what we need to change.

• 27:02Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And I love what you're saying because actually, I think, when I lived as a monk for three years, one of the biggest principles we talked a lot about was how when we are asked to be grateful for something, we only remember the positive. Whereas actually, a lot of the times when we've been in our greatest pain, that's been the greatest path to our potential.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:25Jay Shetty?

  That actually, the pain, the suffering, the tragedy, the falling down was actually the moment of our rise and growth. And I've noticed that when I look in reflection in gratitude, or I look in hindsight, it's actually the lowest point of my life that became the birth of the best moments of my life. And it's so easy to forget that. But now, and so now, when I'm going through painful moments, I'm always saying to myself, don't judge this moment as painful. Don't judge the moment because this could be the moment that leads to the next best thing that happens to you. And so becoming grateful in that pain too.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely, completely agree with that. It's like the Leonard Cohen song, you know, that the light comes in through the cracks.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, exactly, yes.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  And I know that from my life, you know, when I look back, I remember one of the most painful moments in my life was when I was very much in love with this brilliant writer in London. And we were together for seven years.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  By now I was thirty and I really, really wanted to have children. And he was clear, he didn't want to have children, he only wanted to have cats. So I had to make this tough decision, I could stay with him, but then I wouldn't have children. Or if I wanted to fulfill that dream, I would have to leave him. And it was an incredible moment of heartbreak. I really left London and moved to New York to put the kind of the ocean behind us. And yet, when I look back now, that one thing changed my life. So what was like the hardest moment at the time became the moment that allowed me to

• 29:10Speaker 01

  move here, have my children, build the Huffington Post, launch Thrive, be here with you. And it all happened because a man wouldn't marry me.

• 29:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. It's crazy.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  So I say, we all need to look back and and look at all the things that were terrible heartbreaks and what did they lead to?

• 29:29Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely. Mine, mine, funny, I don't think you know this, mine funnily enough was I obviously moved to New York to work with HuffPost when we were together. And then you left to start Thrive. And I left HuffPost at the same time. And that was one of the toughest periods in my life. Because I had had all these views and things were growing online. But I no longer had my sponsor in you of someone who greatly believed in my work. And at that time, I really had to be the person who believed in myself and build my own world. And so I went through one of the toughest periods in my life because I went from having someone who believed in my work, someone incredible, influential like yourself,

• 30:11Jay Shetty?

  to having no one, to then having to do it myself. And it was the best thing that happened to me. And that was only two years ago.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  I know, it's amazing.

• 30:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it was just, it was just one of those moments that I'm so grateful for because otherwise I would have carried on doing what I was doing and it would have been nice, it would have been okay, there would have been nothing bad about it. But it launched, it gave me a launchpad to a new life. And so I'm, I'm very grateful that you started Thrive Global for many reasons. But also for the reason because it allowed me to be born myself again.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  I love that. And I think we all should be doing. More to tell the stories of these heartbreaks and what they led to.

• 30:50Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Because nobody who has succeeded has had like a linear path where everything went great.

• 30:57Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm really glad you brought up having children because that was actually my next topic. So I wanted to talk to you about that. And I, so I have this thing, I talk about making wisdom go viral. I talk a lot about wisdom. My three areas are self, love and work. Those are my three areas which I believe I have some insight on or I've loved and deeply want to help people with. Now, there's one area of my life that I have no wisdom on, and that's parenting, right? I'm no, I'm not a parent yet. I don't claim to have any wisdom on parenting. But I have a lot of my audience and my community that loves asking questions. So one of the biggest questions I get asked right now is, Jay, I feel a lot of mom guilt of working on my passion, building my passion, but then having to be there for my children and wanting to be there too.

• 31:42Jay Shetty?

  And I hear that a lot. I'm sure you've heard it for a long, long time, but I hear it a lot. So I wanted to ask someone who, and I've seen you with your daughters, you have a beautiful relationship with them. They have a beautiful relationship with you. It's so real and genuine. And at the same time, you're someone who is continuing to innovate, continuing to be a pioneer. How have you, not mastered that, because I know you won't even say you've done that, but how have you managed that? And how have you continued to live your passion, build your passion, impact lives and maintain a real bond with your children?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, the mom guilt is kind of pretty much universal. And I really feel sometimes that they take the baby out and they put the guilt in. That's how universal it is. And we've just launched a parenting workshop and it's going to be part of our digital product that helps women through micro steps. And men too, because men have it, although not to the same extent. To recognize that if you follow your passion, you're going to be a better parent. Because if you think that by not following your passion, I mean, first of all, for most people in the world,

• 32:57Speaker 01

  it's not even a choice because people work, they need to make a living. But even let's say that was not the issue, but this is something that you love and fulfills your purpose. There's no way you would be as good a parent if you didn't fulfill that. And also, I find that what matters most is when you are with your children to be fully there. I think the worst thing that we do as parents is multitasking.

• 33:29Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  The idea that I'm with my child, I'm having dinner or I'm helping with their homework and I'm sat up there just looking at my phone.

• 33:38Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  That's the thing that is really painful for their child. I mean, children take this science to heart. But also, being able to allow yourself to be fully present, whether it's with your child or at work. And when the guilt comes, recognizing it's not the truth. I call it, it's the obnoxious roommate living in my head.

• 34:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  You know, that voice of self doubt, questioning, that doesn't allow us to be fully present.

• 34:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And for me, my daughters know that however busy they are, they come first. So if they need me, I will drop anything to be with them. That's what really matters to children, that sense of unconditional loving.

• 34:28Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980.

• 34:41Jay Shetty?

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• 35:01Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 35:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And that really makes me feel inspired hearing that because as a future father, when I have kids, I really believe that because I'm getting to do what I love every day and I'm passionate about it, I'm going to have that energy cascade onto my children. They're going to experience my joy. But if I was to give all this up, and even if I was with them 24/7, I'd probably drive them mad because I wouldn't have anything to give them. Like, what am I going to offer them? And so I love that. And so even if you're a parent out there and you're listening right now, and it's not about changing your career or doing your passion, it could just be doing your hobby once a week, taking a mom's night once a week, hanging out with your friends once a week. Whatever you need to refuel, your kids are going to feel that energy.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  That's the key. Whatever you need to refuel. Because when we're not refueled and we give from a place of being empty and depleted, it's not real giving. I mean, we all have to do it and we all had to do it. But giving from our overflow is just amazing.

• 36:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. Giving from our overflow. That's exactly it. And if we're not overflowing, then we are just giving from our half-filled cup.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:44Jay Shetty?

  Or our quarter-filled cup.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Or our empty cup.

• 36:46Jay Shetty?

  Or our empty cup. And that's why we're feeling drained. So what I really want to understand is how have you changed what you do to refuel over the years?

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:56Jay Shetty?

  So from the moment when you were building a company through to now, I want to know that because I also think that a lot of people's methods for refueling change over time. And we get scared when our methods change. So when you were in your teens, you used to go and party. And when you're in your thirties, I know, or forties, some people are still trying to do the same thing to refuel as they were, and it doesn't work the same, or it doesn't feel the same. So how have yours changed?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Well, that's part of being connected with ourselves and getting the science. I mean, I was blessed with an amazing mother, who was very connected with her own wisdom and ancient wisdom, and even though she never went to college, she was self-taught. And she taught my sister and me to meditate when I was thirteen. And I didn't do it consistently at the beginning, but it definitely was an incredible gift. So I bought into the delusion that the only way to succeed is to be always on, to sacrifice my own health and well-being, which is absurd. You know, we claim to be data-driven, the data is so clear, that's not what works.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  I mean, look at the founder myth. Over three-quarters of startups fail. So there's something wrong about the assumption that you have to be always on to succeed. Look at Elon Musk, I mean, he's a brilliant visionary, but what he's doing by exhausting himself and tweeting in the middle of the night, things that are not true about taking his company private, leading to SEC investigations, having to step down as chairman, paying a twenty million dollar fine. How can this be good for the company you are building? So whatever it is that we are all doing, finding our own ways to refuel is key. For me, the foundation of my refueling became sleep.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  I even wrote a book, as you know, The Sleep Revolution.

• 38:56Jay Shetty?

  Yes, I love it. It's a great book.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  With all the latest science about why it is so essential, because sleep is not optional. It's an incredibly active time for the brain. It's the only time when the brain can clean up all the accumulated ex-toxins from the day, and it is essential to our health and to our cognitive performance. So that's my number one thing. My number two thing that we teach a lot here... Is the recognition that it takes one minute to course correct from stress. It's not like a long time, but you need to do it every time you feel you're stressed out. So we are launching a behavior change platform.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  And this product is at the heart of it. To help people when they are stressed to get a recommendation for a micro step. And the micro step can be as small as closing your eyes. You're even not closing your eyes if you're in a public space and you don't want to. And consciously focusing on your breathing. Literally, I mean, I did a one minute meditation at Dreamforce.

• 40:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, when you sat on the cloud, I love that.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  I sat on the cloud and I just put it on my Instagram a couple of days ago. Because it is so simple. And you know, if you practice it and take one minute. It's just extraordinary how you course correct from stress. And you know, nobody is going to eliminate stress from their lives. What we're looking for is not to make it cumulative.

• 40:35Jay Shetty?

  Yes. One of the things I think we have to realize is that what you're pointing out is that there's acute stress and chronic stress. And acute stress is good sometimes. We need that kind of like, oh my God, I need to get this done. It's important. We all feel stressed before we go and give a keynote. Or you feel stressed before a big meeting at work. But it's the chronic stress, it's that repeated stress. It's the stress that's underlying and building up, like you said, cumulative stress. That's the one we really need to be wary of.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. So just to give you an example. At Thrive, you know, we're not a nine to five company. You know, we have huge ambitions, people work hard. But we tell everybody, if you have a project that requires you to pull an all nighter or do extra intense work.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Take Thrive time after that. That is the key. Don't continue working as though you had not expended extra energy and are depleted.

• 41:38Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Because if you do that, just look at the data. Either you're going to get sick because your immune system is going to be compromised. So you may think you're powering through or grinding through. Your body is going to let you down.

• 41:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  And also, your decisions and your work are not going to be as good as they could have been.

• 42:03Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, and I love your consistent point about the data is showing this. Like, the data is showing this. If we're data-driven, there's no debate.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  There's no debate. It's not my opinion.

• 42:15Jay Shetty?

  Yes, exactly. It's not your opinion, it's not a philosopher's opinion.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:19Jay Shetty?

  It's not the opinion of, oh, let's be fluffy and let's believe in well-being. It's data-driven, so.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Wellness is a 4.3 trillion category.

• 42:28Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  But it's not defined.

• 42:30Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  It can mean anything. It can mean warm and fuzzy things.

• 42:34Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Nothing wrong with them, but that's not what we are talking about.

• 42:37Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  We are talking about hardcore, science-driven, data-driven realities, which also happen to be validating ancient wisdom. That's what I love.

• 42:48Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, yeah. And I love that because when I started reading your books, which I highly recommend, Sleep Revolution and Thrive, like, they're two of my favorite books. What I loved about them is, it's exactly what I try and do, is the bridge between ancient wisdom, modern science, and then practical application. How is this relevant now? You know, how can you take it now?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  And the reason why I love ancient wisdom the way you do is because we are not Pavlov's dogs. We do have a heart and a soul.

• 43:19Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  And so if we really want to change behavior, we need to capture our imagination. That's what we are building. The product we are building intends to sort of crack the code on behavior change.

• 43:31Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  The reason why behavior change doesn't work most of the time is because we only appeal to people's minds. And we are more than our minds.

• 43:40Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. Ariana, you're amazing and I hope we're going to do many, many more of these. And this conversation, I believe, is just a starting point. I just wanted people to dive into your wealth of wisdom. I highly recommend it. If you've loved this conversation, I'm a big proponent of Ariana's books. I think they're phenomenal. And if you haven't checked out Thrive Global yet, make sure you check them out. They're doing incredible work online, in companies, and bringing all of this to the work environment, which I think is so important. Having worked at Accenture myself, who I know works very closely with you, it's incredible to see this work infusing into the corporate culture.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  And also, I would love to invite your listeners to tell their stories. A H at thriveglobal.com is my email. Send it to me and we'll give you a password and you can pass them on Jay's channels and on Thrive Global. The question is, how can we accelerate the distribution of these ideas?

• 44:38Jay Shetty?

  I love that. That's awesome. So Ariana, we end every podcast with what I call the final five. These are the final five rapid fire answer. It can either be a one word, three word, or one sentence answer, no more than that. So I'm being a bit lenient, but this is it. It's easy for you. What's the first thing you do when you wake up?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  The first thing I do when I wake up is focus on my breath and three things I'm grateful for.

• 45:03Jay Shetty?

  Me too. I love that. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed?

• 45:07Speaker 01

  The last thing is, again, focus on my breath and three things I'm grateful for.

• 45:14Jay Shetty?

  I love it. If I went through your phone, whose number would I want to steal?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  I think you would want to steal Bill Maher's number.

• 45:21Jay Shetty?

  Okay, why?

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Because he's such a truth teller. I don't agree with everything, but I love him. He and I have been friends forever. And also because he's unbelievably private, so it's a very hard number to get.

• 45:34Jay Shetty?

  I like it. Awesome. I'm gonna have to try and grab your phone later. Who's, what's the most used app on your phone?

• 45:42Speaker 01

  So you know, I have basically, um...

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Removed most apps from my phone.

• 45:49Jay Shetty?

  Nice.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  So what I, the most intimate thing I do is texting with my daughters and my friends. And of course, I'm obsessed with our Thrive Up.

• 46:00Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Because A, I integrate in my life all the micro steps that are fair to me, but also because I'm a big believer in constantly iterating and improving it.

• 46:13Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  So I'm giving constant feedback. So I use it for myself, but I also use it as a tool to keep improving it.

• 46:20Jay Shetty?

  Awesome. And question five of the final five is, what do you consider your biggest accomplishment so far?

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Without question, my two daughters.

• 46:32Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  I love them so much. My oldest daughter just got engaged and I'm so happy because her

• 46:38Jay Shetty?

  Congratulations, I saw the pictures.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Her fiance, somebody I love, that I actually hired for the Huffington Post.

• 46:45Jay Shetty?

  Oh, no way. That's amazing. I didn't know that part of it.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Well, he now works with Jeffrey Katzenberg and Infatuation, yeah.

• 46:52Jay Shetty?

  Oh, Infatuation, yes.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is one of their, of the companies that he identified and they invested in. But anyway, I, I love them. We are very close. I feel very blessed to be as close to them. And I can't wait to become a grandmother, Jay.

• 47:08Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. I love it. Well, Ariana, thank you so much for taking this time. Thank you for opening up your office. Thank you so much for sharing that opportunity for my audience and community to reach out to you as well and share that idea. I love that. We'll definitely let everyone know. And please, please, please go and check out Ariana. If you don't follow her already, find her on Instagram, find her on Facebook, find her on Twitter. All of her insights, anything that you've loved today, her Instagram and social media feeds are absolutely full of it. So make sure you do that. Ariana, thank you so much for making the time.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Thank you. And thank you so much for everything you are doing for the world. Thank you.

• 47:40Jay Shetty?

  Oh no, thank you so much. Thank you.

• 47:48Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're gonna share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to On Purpose. Let me know, post it, tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.